the saints anchor-hold, in all storms and tempests preached in sundry sermons, and published for the support and comfort of gods people, in all times of tryal / by john davenport ... davenport, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing d estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the saints anchor-hold, in all storms and tempests preached in sundry sermons, and published for the support and comfort of gods people, in all times of tryal / by john davenport ... davenport, john, - . [ ], p. printed by w.l. for geo. hurlock, and are to be sold at his shop ..., london : . first ed. cf. nuc pre- . the preface "to the christian reader" signed: william hooke [and] joseph caryl. errata: p. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sermons, american. congregational churches -- sermons. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the saints anchor-hold , in all storms and tempests . preached in sundry sermons . and published for the support and comfort of gods people , in all times of tryal . by john davenport , b. d. sometime minister of stephens coleman-street ; london ; and now pastor of the church of christ in new-haven , in new-england ▪ heb. . . lay hold upon the hope set before us . . which hope we have , as an anchor of the soul , both sure and steadfast , and which entreth into that within the vail . . whither the forerunner is for us entred , even jesus , made an high-priest for ever , after the order of melchisedech . london . printed by w. l. for geo. hurlock , and are to be sold at his shop at magnus church corner , in thames-street , . the preface . to the christian reader . as the whole creation hath groaned ever since its original subjection unto vanity , earnestly expecting the manifestation of the sons of god : so more especially in these latter dayes the travelling pains thereof have encreased , as presages of its approaching deliverance . the vanity of it hath alwayes been great , but the experimental discoveries thereof never more than now . in this case it is the wisdome of a christian to secure to himself an interest in a portion as sufficient and permanent as jehovah that never changeth : a greater than which cannot be procured : this may , and a less will never satisfie : by this men live indeed , and in this is the life of a christian . that the lord's portion are his people , addeth nothing to him that is alsufficient to himself ; but , that the lord is their portion , is all in all to them . and this is the foundation of their hope and comfort . for here we are all embarqued in a vessel , sometimes caught with windes , sometimes covered with waves , and should soon be at our wits end , but for this sure and steadfast ancre which entreth into that within the vail . now that portion , and this hope grounded on it , are the churches , and a christians support in the midst of their lamentations : for the church at this time was driven from jerusalem , zion , temple , temple-ordinances , and native place of residence , greatly afflicted and tossed with tempests . this is only remaining , that she hath god for her portion , and hope for her anchor , never to be taken from her . and both these are the subject of the ensuing discourse , seasonable and suitable at all times , especially in these last moments of the last dayes , in which god is shaking heaven , earth , and sea , in order to the appearance of the desire of all nations . as touching the author of this treatise ( in whose heart the text was written by the finger of god , befor the discourse was penned by his own hand ) his piety , learning , gravity , experience , judgment , do not more commend him to all that know him , than this work of his may commend it self to them that read it : and the consideration of the two hindges on which the text turneth , faith , and hope , their near cognation , concomitance , usefulness , necessity , power , comfort , the first exciting the second , the one commensurate with the other , is enough to procure from thee the expence of a little time , to see and weigh what is here spoken of these most neces●ary helps to eternall happiness , which will never relinquish the believer , till they have resigned him up to the glorious vision and fruition of the objects believed in , and hoped for , there le●●ing the soul to the everlasting exercise of never failing love to god and the saints in glory . that this holy faith and hope in god , together with fervent love to god , and one to another , may dayly flourish , and be confirmed in the hearts and lives of all the saints on earth , till they enter upon their purchased possession ( which is the end of their faith and hope , to the praise of the glory of god ) in glory , is the hearty desire and prayer of thy fellow-brethren in this faith and hope , william hooke . joseph caryl . errata . page . lines , and . read causally . p. . l. ult . r. him . p. . l. . r. resolved . p. . l. . r. quietnesse . p. . l. ult . r. grounds . p. . l. . r. there . p. . l. . r. brought . p. . l. . r. notice . p. . l. . r. lust . p. . l. . thereof . the saints anchor-hold . lam. . . the lord is my portion , saith my soul , therefore will i hope in him . this book is , according to the judgment of a godly learned * writer , an abridgment of all jeremies sermons , from the th . year of josias , unto the th . of joakim ; and that book which god commanded ieremy to write , and to cause baruch to read it publikely , upon the day of a fast , kept in the ninth moneth of the fifth year of iehojakim , which afterward iehudi read unto the king , sitting by a fire , in his winter house , who was so far from repenting , that , when he had read three or four leaves of it , he cut it with a penknife , and cast it into the fire , till all was consumed , and rejected the intercession of some of his princes , that he would not burn it , and he commanded to lay hold upon ieremy and baruch : but god hid them . whereupon the lord commanded ieremy to write the book again , with additions , which the same writer thinks , was this chapter , which consisteth of a threefold alphabet , in the hebrew . the prophet , having discharged his offices , in labouring to convince the jews of their sins , and to bring them to repentance , when he found not the successe he desired , he fals to lamenting and weeping , for their pride and obstinacy in sin , and teacheth them also how to lament their own misery in captivity ; and , because there was among them a basket of good figges , he teacheth them how to exercise faith and hope in the middest of their sorrows . among other passages , my text hath a tendency thereunto , which admits a double consideration : . as a part of a lamentation . . as an expression of a free spirit . accordingly i shall handle it , first , as a part of a lamentation . in verse , . you may see their deep dejection and despondency ; i said my strength and my hope is perished from the lord. in vers . , , . you may see how , from the good fruit of their affliction , in humbling them , they gather hope . in vers . , . they can see mercy in god towards them in their affliction . in my text , they are as men that find rest , after their dangers and tossings at sea , by casting anchor upon firme ground , in a safe harbour . the doctrinal note i collect from the words so considered , is this : doct. though it may be the case of true believers to be greatly dejected for a time , yet , even then , god doth support their spirits , and quicken their faith and hope in him . to clear this point , we must prove two things . . that it may be the case of true believers to be greatly dejected , for a time . this may be abundantly confirmed , both by the scriptures in the examples of iob , david , hezekiah , asaph , heman , and of christ himself , in the garden , and on the crosse , and by reasons of sundry sorts . r. . from god himself , sometimes with-holding the light of his countenance from true believers . then it is with them , as it is with the earth , which would be covered with darknesse , coldnesse , and deadnesse , if the light and influence of the sun were with-drawn from it . he is the god of all comfort , cor. . . without him no true comfort can be had . sometimes he creates darknesse in the soul ; then it is filled with fear and amazement , and disquietment . and thus he doth , for holy and good ends . . to conforme believers to christ , as members to their head , rom. . . . to informe them , where their life is hid , viz. with christ , in god , col. . . and that christ , the last adam , is made a quickning spirit . cor. . . that thereby he may quicken his people in god , who quickeneth the dead , when themselves had not only a sentence of death , in their bodies , as paul had , . cor. . . but also a sense of death in their soules , as heman had , psalme . . . to reforme them . partly , for correction of their unthankfulnesse for former comforts received from him , and for their not improveing them unto the ends for which he gave them . as a father , when he seeth his child doth but play with the candle which he afforded him to work by , takes it from him , and leave him in the dark . partly , for prevention of spiritual pride . cor. . . of spiritual wantonnesse , and self confidence , psal . . , . of carnal security , cant. . . and sundry other distempers . r. . from satan , that envious one , who , as in the beginning he sought to cast adam out of paradice , and to bereave him of his happinesse in communion with god , so now , finding believers in the kingdom of grace , which consists in righteousnesse , and peace , and joy in the holy spirit , when he cannot deprive them of their righteousnesse , will endeavour to disturbe their peace , and damp their joy , knowing , that when they performe duties uncomfortably , they do them weakly and but by halves . to this end : . he strives to hide from them those promises that might comfort them , when they have most need and use of them , and he sometimes prevailes herein . heb. . . . he suggests any word that may terrefie them , and presents to their memory and thoughts former sins , to amaze them . . he presents all thimgs unto them in false glasses ; the comforts of god , in a diminishing glasse , that god may seem to them lesse merciful , lesse gracious then he is , and the promises of god lesse free , lesse general then they are ; that all the consolations of god may seem small things to them , iob . . but he presents to them their sins in a multiplying glasse , that they may seem more , and greater then they are ; their sins , as impardonable ; their miseries , as intollerable , incurable ; their state , as desperate . . he useth his instruments to deal with them , as the philistims did with izhack , whose wells they stopped up , to make unprofitable to them those wells of salvation , from whence believers might draw waters of consolation . thus he used saul to banish david from the ordinances , and wicked men to insult and reproach him ; saying , vvhere is now thy god ? psal . . . so others , to twit them with their religion , when they are in distresse , saying , where are now your prayers , your hearing , reading , meditating , conferring , your conscientious and exact walking , your confidence in god ? you live more dejectedly then others , and are as fearful , as others , to die . thus they thrust , as it were , swords and daggers into their bones , to kill their comforts , as david there complained , verse . r. . from themselves : . sin presseth down their spirits , and hinders their cheerful progresse in a christian course , as weight doth runners in a race , heb. . . sorrow in the heart brings it down , especially , when guilt of sin is added to it . when the shoulder is out of joynt , it cannot bear its own pain , much lesse other burthens . so it is with the soul , a wounded spirit who can bear ? prov. . . . their spirit sometimes suffers from their bodies , by sympathy ; as in melancholy , which so darkens their imagination , that every thing seems dark to them , and so sowres their spirits , that every thing seems bitter to them , and so fills them with fears and suspitions , that every thing affrights them . . sometimes passion so prevaileth in them , that the higher faculties of the soul are subjected to the affections , which so bemist the understanding , that it cannot judge of things according to right reason : the conscience becomes suspensive , and wavering , and the memory , like a leaking vessel , le ts the grounds of comfort run out , and be forgotten : . sometimes spiritual gifts of grace are not exercised , but as the body growes listless when some dull humour seizeth upon it ; so in the soul , when faith is oppressed by unbelief , hope with fears , they do not put forth themselves to wrestle with god , and stir up themselves to take hold on him , but yield unto every temptation and discouragement . thus you see , that it may be the case of believers to be greatly dejected , for a time . the second thing to be cleared , is ; that though it be thus with true believers , for a time ; yet then god will do two things for them . . he will secretly support them , so that they may say as paul did , in cor. . , . vve are troubled on every side , yet not distressed ; we are perplexed , but not in despair , persecuted , but not forsaken ; cast down , but not destroyed . god dealt with the basket of good figges , in captivity , as christ did with peter , who first let him see his own weaknesse , in the water , then quickned him to cry unto him for help , and then stretched forth his hand and upheld him . mat. . , . so the lord left the church so far that they complained my hope is perished from the lord , yet speedily raised them up in sight of his mercy to trust and hope in him . in like manner , he supports believers . r. . from gods unchangeablenesse in his love , and unweariednesse in doing them good . isa . . . and . , , , . r. . from gods faithfulnesse in his covenant and promises . isa . . , . psal . . . heb. . . . he will quicken their faith , to look unto himself for relief and comfort , in such times , chron. . . psal . ● . ▪ . jon. . , . for these reasons : r. . from the efficacy of the spirit of faith in them . as the needle in the compasse , being touched with the load-stone , though it may be moved and shaken this way and that , for a time , yet resteth not till it point to the north ; so the soul , being touched with the spirit of faith , though it may be forced , by temptation , from its bent , for a time , yet it hath no rest , till it stand god-ward . they may by temptations be as sheep driven from mountaine to mountaine , and forget their resting place . jer. . . but the spirit of , faith in them will cause them to return unto god , and to say , as david , psal . . . return unto thy rest , o my soul . believers are like noahs dove , that finding no rest for the soles of its feet , in the deluge , returned unto the arke . other men will like the raven , be soon satisfied with other things . r. . from the sutable operation of gods spirit in them unto gods end in afflicting them . gods end , in afflicting his children , is to drive them from all other things unto himself . for he corrects them for their good , heb. . . and its good for them to draw neer to god , psal . . . when afflictions work us thereunto , it is from the spirits sanctifying operation in them . for , . afflictions cannot work thus of themselves , but rather set men further off from god by discontentment with his providence , because it crosseth their carnal affections . and , . the soul of it self is apt to misgivings , in such cases , and to have hard thoughts of god. and . satan takes such occasions to breed and increase a distance and division between the soul and god. therefore it must be from the sanctifying operation of gods spirit in them and with them , when they work this good . rom. . . vse . for instruction . . here we may see the differenc between believers and others , in their dejected condition . . believers have the spirit of faith in them , whereby the soul , though it be over-borne by passion and temptation , for a time , yet it will worke it self into freedom again , as oil will be uppermost . the spirit , as a spring , will be cleansing it self more and more , from that mudde that is in it . but the heart of unbelievers is like a standing poole , where that which is cast into it rests . they are like the sea , where trouble and unquietnesse are in their proper place , isa . . . true rest and peace are for ever separated from sin in any soul , till the breach between god and the soul be made up by faith in christ . . believers have an interest in god , and he in them , through jesus christ . hence they are kept , as in a garrison , by his mighty power , through faith , unto salvation , pet. . . through the intercession of christ , luke . . by the spirit of christ dwelling with them , and who shall be in them and abide with them for ever : so that they shall not be left comfortlesse . joh. . , , . hereupon paul triumphed , in rom. . , &c. where he puts the question about persons , and answers about things , neither shall separate them from the love , which either christ bears to them , or they to christ . sin cannot separate them from christs love to them , because he hath more than conquered it , by his own power . tribulation cannot seperate believers from the love they bear to christ , because they shall more then conquer it , by the power of christ . it is not our hold of god and christ , but gods and christs hold of us that keeps us to him . the root bears us up , not we the root . rom. . . this asaph acknowledged unto god , when his feet were almost gone , his steps had well nigh slipt ; saying , neverthelesse i am continually with thee , thou hast holden me by my right hand , psal . . , . but unbelievers are without christ , and without god in the world. eph. . . therefore when their creature-comforts fail them , they are as a ship tossed in the sea without a pylot , and without an anchor , which soon is bulged upon rocks , or falleth upon quick-sands , having no god to guide or support them . . hence we way learn how to carry our selves toward afflicted dejected christians . judge mercifully and wisely of poor weaklings . psal . . . men are apt , through want of wisdom and love , to mis-apprehend the causes of their dejectednesse . it is the lesse to be wondred at , that an heathen king mis-interpreted the dejected countenance of nehemiah , neh. . . seeing godly and wise eli , mis-censured hannah , as a distempered woman , when she was in bitternesse of spirit , sam. . , . and iobs friends mis-judged him for his afflictions , and men generally mis-construed christs sufferings , isa . . , . they are not alwayes the best that are merriest , nor they the merriest in heart that are so in the face . nor are they alwayes of the weakest faith , or spirit , who are sometimes dejected , as we see ioshuah was ; in josh . . therefore be not rash , or harsh in censuring the dejected ; but rather worke with god for their support and comfort . two things are required hereunto ; knowledge , and goodness , rom. . . the first will make you able , the second willing to be helpful to such . labour to abound in both , . in knowledge both of the word , col. . , and of the temper of the party , that you may speak to them suitably , and seasonably , isa . . . . in goodnesse , to pity them , to pray for them , and to set them in joynt . gal. . . . as for your selves , beware that you mis-judge not your own estate toward god , under such dejections , but know that , if ever you had any clear testimony of gods love to you , in jesus christ , the love of god toward you in christ is unchangeable , it is an everlasting love , jer. . . therefore hold the confidence and rejoycing of your hope firme unto the end , heb. . . and say , with the church , in mich. . . when i sit in darknesse , the lord shall be a light unto me . use . for admonition . take heed of placing your comfort too much in the creature , which being subject to change , and inconstancy , will be apt to breed disquietment . vexation inseparably followes vanity , when vanity is not apprehended to be where it is . in what degree any are lifted up in expectation of satisfying good from creatures , or overjoyed with the comforts of them , in that degree they are dejected in the dis-appointment of their hope , and distressed in the losse of creature-contentments . inordinacy of affections imbitters all such afflictions . hence arise those bitter complaints ; i had setled my contentment and hope in such a friend , or relation , but now they are gone , and with them all my joy is gone . woe is me , i am undone . therefore agur prayed wisely , in prov. . . remove far from me vanity and lies . i. e. vain and false apprehensions , whereby the affections are too strongly fixed upon things that are vain , and lying promising that contentment , which they cannot yield ; confidence in vanities makes them idols , and makes the heart vaine , like the things it relyes upon , psal . . . they shall find continual disquietment who walk in a vain shadow , psal . . . the best remedy against this is , by dwelling in the secret of the most high , to abide under the shadow of the almighty . psal . . , . lam. . . the lord is my portion , &c : the words having been considerd , as they lie in the context , as a part of a lamentation ; we proceed to handle them as in my text they hold forth the expression of a free spirit , that is , of a spirit set at liberty from those sad perplexities , wherein it had been intangled , and held under deep dejection , and despondency . the text , thus considered , conteineth the anchor-hold of a tossed afflicted spirit : wherein three particulars are to be noted . . an assertion , the lord is my portion . . a proof of it , saith my soul . . a consectary , or inference from the premises ; therefore will i hope in him . i shall speak onely of the first , at this time : the lord is my portion . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a part , or portion , is not to be taken here in the mathematical or common use of that word , as denoting a part of a whole , as it is frequently in scripture , when that part of estate , which parents give their children , is called their portion , gen. . . and that part of the spoil , which is the souldiers share , is called their portion , gen. . . and that dimensum of food , which is allowed unto any , is called their portion , deut. . . and the almes given to the poor is called their portion , eccl. . . for god is not parted , or divided , and distributed among his people , so as one hath one part of him , another another part of god ; but every one hath whole god wholly ; as the whole sun shines to every one , in which respect god is called a sun , psal . . . therefore god is said to be his peoples portion , not in a comparative , but in an absolute sense , god himself is theirs , a suitable and all sufficient goods to them . they have , not onely gifts and all good things from him , but himself also to be their god , in the covenant of grace , through jesus christ . he is their portion though not formally , yet in two senses : . objectivèly , as he is their ultimate end , and chief good . . caually , as he gives , together with himself , in christ , all good to them . the doctrinal note shall be this : doct. all true believers have such a blessed interest in god , as renders him their portion . it is the voice of faith , to say , the lord is my portion : others may say , the lord is an all-sufficient portion : but onely believers truly say , the lord is my portion . because onely faith interests a man in god , and appropriates him to him . this faith doth by a double act . . by a direct act , whereby true believers see in god those properties , which are required in a satisfying portion . they are three : . all-sufficiency . . perpetuity . . safety in placing his happinesse and full contentment there . all these the scripture declare to be in god alone . . sufficiency , gen. . . psal . . . . perpetuity . it tells us , that he is without shadow of change , jam. . . and that he will never fail , nor forsake his people , heb. . . . safety , in placing all our contentment and happinesse in him alone , psal . . . by a reflexed act of faith , a believer seeth his peculiar right and interest in god , as his portion . hence david said , the lord is the portion of mine inheritance , and of my cup , psal . . . and , thou art my portion o lord , ps . . . and asaph , vvhom have i in heaven but thee , and there is none upon earth that i desire , besides thee : and again , god is the strength of my heart , and my portion for ever , psal . . , . to cleer this , two things must be added : . the grounds , whereupon the saints have claimed this interest in god , as their portion . . the use they have made of god , under this notion and relation . for the first , their title unto god , as their portion , is founded : . in gods voluntary and free donation of himself to them , in the covenant of grace , whereby both they become his portion . deut. . . the lords portion is his people , and he becomes their portion ; the portion of jacob is the former of all things : the lord of hosts is his name , jer. . . an act so done , by one , that is , suijuris , is a strong binding act , as peter argued in the case of ananias , acts . . it was free and deliberate , and therefore exceedingly dishonourable to break it . god stands much upon his honour in this , psal . . . my covenant will i not break . and psal . . . he will ever be mindful of his covenant . . this donation is confirmed sundry wayes : . by oath , psal . . . once have i sworn by my holinesse . again , in psal . . . he remembred his oath unto izhack , the covenant of grace , whereby god gives himself to be his peoples god and portion , micah saith , god hath sworn unto our fathers from the dayes of old , micah . . ult . which also zachary declares to be performed when he sent christ , luke . . . by seals : as circumcision is called a seal of the righteousnesse , which is by faith , rom. . . because it externally sealed the covenant , whereby god becomes the god of his people , gen. . , . so of is , with both the sacraments of the new testament , by parity of reason . . by marriage unto christ , hos . . , . agreements upon marriage , are firme , because upon rational consideration . a consideration inserted , adds weight to a deed and covenant . the consideration is , that we should be joyned unto the lord jesus , and then , all the promises of god , in him , are yea and amen to us , in him , cor. . . and christs god and father is our god and portion , joh. . . . by a recovery , after judgment , if i may so speak , when , after they are fallen into gods displeasure , and returned to him , with repentance for and from their sins , and renewing their faith in christ , they have renewed their taking hold of the covenant and have pleaded it with god , and their plea hath been accepted . thus did moses for israel , after they had sinned , in the matter of the golden calf , exod. . , . and the israelites for themselves isa . . , , , . the second thing to be shewn is , what use the saints have made of their right and interest in god , as their portion : they have made use of him thus , both for themselves , and others . . for themselves : . to glory in god ; this god is our god. psal . . ult . . to delight themselves in the lord , in confidence of his goodnesse toward them , in the middest of temptatious , psal . . . whence followeth a rowling themselves upon him in all their wayes and difficulties , verse . and a patient waiting upon god in delays , with hope of a good issue , verse . . for others , whether they be friends or enemies , or of a middle sort . . friends , a poor believer can pleasure his richest friends out of this his portion , his god. this is a prophets and a righteous mans reward , mat. . . thus paul abundantly recompenced all his friends and well-willers out of his portion , phil. . . my god shall supply all your need , according to his riches in glory by iesus christ. . enemies : in jesus christ all believers have sufficient help from god against all sorts of enemies , and can , in an holy manner challenge them to do their worst , and triumph over them before the battail , upon this assurance , my god will help me ; therefore i shall not be confounded , isa . . , , . other men are strong in men , in armes , in shipping , in fortifications , &c. a believer hath all in god , he is strong in the lord , and in the power of his might , eph. . . . a middle sort ; laban fared the better for iacob , potiphar , pharaoh , and all egypt , for ioseph : the sodomites for lot : the mariners , and all that were in the ship , for paul , acts , ▪ the world for the saints , for the holy seed are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the propps that shoar up the places where they live , that the wrath of god doth not over-flow , and over-whelm them . isa . . . vse . for instruction : hence learn to behold and admire the excellency , and happinesse of every true believer in his portion . the all-sufficient god is their portion . his greatnesse , power , mercy , grace , goodnesse , faithfulnesse , forgivenesse , justice , all are for them ; and , that they may possesse him , as their portion , he gives them his son , to be theirs , through faith , and with him all things , cor. , , , . thus , the brother of low degree is exalted , iam. . . he hath the best portion that god can give , and upon the best assurance that god can make , heb. . . hence david calleth such the excellent ones , ps . . . he had conversed with rich men , great men , wise men , after the flesh ; yet he called none of them , the excellent ones . he well knew that the righteous is more excellent than his neighbour , prov. . . vse . for exhortation : generally , to all ; to make out for this portion . to this end , wait upon god in his ordinances with thirsting souls : it will not be in vain , isa . . . , , . prov. . , . for thereby , either it shall be cleered unto you that the lord is your portion , or the lord will become your portion . and he is so unto them , in whom faith is wrought in christ by the spirit , in the ministry of the gospel . they that can say to christ , with thomas , my lord and my god , ioh. . . may also say to god , with david , in ps . . . o lord , thou art my refuge and my portion in the land of the living . this is the priviledge of those , who answer gods call , by joyning to him in covenant . so saith the lord , i entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine , ezek. . . and again , in hos . . . i will say unto them which were not my people , thou art my people , and they shall say , thou art my god. to perswade you hereunto : consider , . every man desires to have best , for his portion in other things , in houses , lands , food , apparel cattle . but this portion is simply absolutely the best . this christ teacheth , in luke . . this he calls our own , those , another mans . vvhen a man views houses , or surveys land , or tells money for another man , his heart is not so affected with them , as when he views , surveys , tells for himself . propriety draws and engages the heart to that wherein a man hath a property , though it be but mean and worthlesse , and carrieth the heart after it ; much more , when propriety and a most worthy property meet together ; as david found this to be , psal . . , . . the misery of those that have not this portion eph. . . little , or rather , no cause have such to blesse themselves in their worldly portions and possessions , as worldly men are apt to do , psal . . . for they have their portion onely in this life , which is but a vapour : but believers are happy in their portion , in god , both in , and after this life : for they shall behold his face in righteousnesse , and shall be satisfied when they awake with his likenesse , psal . , , . attend therefore , in time , to the counsel of christ , in rev. . , . . specially , to believers ; to beha●e themselves as it becomes those , who have god for their portion . that you may so do , . professedly avouch god to be your portion , deut. . . this is done two wayes , . when you set your love upon him , with such an esteem of him , as is meet for such a portion . where a mans treasure is , there will his heart be also , matth. . . let god be your treasure , when you look upon all things in the world , single out those that you account most amiable , desirable ; then ascend , in your thoughts to heaven , and contemplate all the excellencies there , the rivers of pleasure , the blessed fellowship of saints in glory ; each of them as dear to another , as if all relations of husbands , and wives , of parents , and children , and friends , were in every one of them ; yet let god and christ be above them all . so did asaph , psal . . . so will every one that knows gods name aright . psal . . . because he hath set his love upon me , therefore will i deliver him : i will set him on high , because he hath known my name . . when you are content to part with all , to enjoy him alone . a maid will say of a man whom she loves , i will have him , though i beg my bread with him . a man will lay out his estate , in suit , for his own . . when you live in the world with affections free from worldly ingagements , as pilgrims , whose hearts are at home , when their feet are travailing abroad . . possesse and use , and injoy god , as your portion . thus , . live upon god , as the israelites in canaan did upon their lots and inheritances : live upon gods favour , in christ , psal . . . and upon his promises , isa . . . live by the faith of the son of god , gal. . . fetching all your comfort thence . . walk with god , gen. . . and work in god , joh. . . marry in the lord , live unto the lord , exalting his ends , and rules , in all things . . cast all your care upon him , pet. . . you may try men in smaller things , before you trust them with greater ; especially , if they be strangers . but it is dishonourable to god , if you do not , at the first , trust him with all that you are , and have . when mens hearts sink in every danger , it is from a defect , either of faith , or in faith . see how christ reproved this in peter , mat. . , . davids first recourse was to god , and what ever means he used , he looked up to him , psal . . . . live contentedly , when you injoy god in his ordinances , without covetousnesse , heb. . . and with out discontentednesse because of outward afflictions , or wants . david as he was the sweet singer of israel , so he expressed a sweet frame of spirit , in sam. . . he hath made with me an everlasting covenant , ordered in all things and sure : this is all my salvation , and all my desire , &c. . make up all your happinesse in god. a worldly man , when he views his houses , lands , cattle , barns filled with corn , &c. his heart is cheared , like that rich fool in luke . . but see the vanity of that joy , in the answer of god to him , ver . . but a true believer hath true cause of rejoycing in his portion , having such an estate in god , and christ , and the covenant , that he shall want nothing , psal . . . his downlyings and up-risings , himself and his children are well provided ; for what though his estate lyeth not in lands , or monies , or plenty of corn and cattle ? he hath that which is better , for his portion . a believer is a citizen of heaven ; there is his inheritance ; things on earth are added to him , onely pro viatico , while he is travailing thitherward . lam. . . saith my soul. having spoken of the assertion , the lord is my portion ; we are now , with christs assistance , to speak to the proof of it , saith my soul. the church proveth that the lord is their portion , by their souls saying it . where note , . the principle of this speech , their soul , which sheweth that there is a mental as well as a vocal speaking : the fool saith in his heart , there is no god , psal . . . when his tongue speaketh and professeth the contrary , tit. . . . that , by an act of the soul reflexed upon it self , they knew what their soul said . so david , in psal . . . o my soul , thou hast said unto jehovah , thou art my lord. . that the use they make hereof is , to prove two things : . that the lord is their portion . . that they know that the lord is their portion . . to prove that the lord is their portion , they argue thus : what the soul saith is a mans portion , that is his portion . but my soul saith , the lord is my portion . therefore the lord is my portion . . to prove that they know that the lord is their portion , they argue thus . what a man knoweth that his soul saith is his portion , that he knoweth to be his portion . but i know that my soul saith , the lord is my portion ; therefore i know that the lord is my portion . in like manner , david putting up this pettion , preserve me , o god , presseth it by this motive , for in thee do i trust , and he proveth that he trusteth in god , by an apostrophe , a turning of his speech , to his soul , o my soul , thou hast said unto the lord , thou art my god. and this he confirmeth from the testimony of his own soul and conscience , psal . . , . and thence inferred ; the lord is the portion of mine inheritance , and of my cup , ver . . q. d. the lord is my land and revenue , and food , he supplies all , and is himself above all , better then all , unto me . d. when a believer knoweth that his soul saith , the lord is his portion , he hath from thence a clear proof that the lord is his portion . for the proving of this point , two things must be declared . . that a true believer may know that his soul saith , the lord is his portion . david knew it , when he said , o god! my soul trusteth in thee , psal . . . he knew that he trusted in god , as one trusteth in his treasure ; and in psal . . . my heart and my flesh cryeth out for the living god. as , when an house is on fire , and all is in danger to be lost , the owner crieth out , oh , let me have my casket of jewels , my box of evidences , they are my treasure , the principal of my estate , i am not undone , unlesse i lose them . and then , as his desire is ardent , so his expectation is earnest for them , looking when they shall be delivered to him . saith he , have you them ? have you found them ? as the church said to the daughters of jerusalem , concerning her beloved , cant. . . and . . and , as any hope appeareth , he is the more incouraged to wait , yet still watching and observing if he can get the sight of them . so david , my soul waiteth for the lord , more then they that watch for the morning : i say , more than they that watch for the morning , psal . . . and , as david knew thus that the lord was his portion ; so may other believers , as paul argues , in a like case , from davids example , cor. . . from parity of reason , seeing we have the same helps as he had . r. . from the proper excellency , or excellent property of the reasonable soul , that it can reflect , and discern its own internal acts ; much more the renewed soul . ioh. . . r. . from the office and power of conscience , to testifie what is within a man. this the apostle notes in natural men , rom. . . and in believers , ioh. . ▪ . r. . from the spirit of god joyning with the renewed spirits of believers , rom. . . and . , . my conscience bearing me witnesse in the holy ghost . and the holy spirit brings into the soul a self-evidencing light , whereby he doth manifest unto the renewed soul , that it is himself , and no delusion , who testifieth to us our interest in god. hereby we know that we dwell in him , and he in us , because he hath given us of his spirit , ioh. . . for the spirit is given for this end , that we might know the things that are freely given to us of god , cor. . . . that a believer , from his souls saying , the lord is his portion , hath a good proof that the lord is his portion . so the church , in psal . . . from knowledge that their soul waiteth for the lord , proves , that he is their help and their shield , and from thence they infer , in ver . . our heart shall rejoyce in him , because we have trusted in his holy name : so david proved his interest in god , by his souls thirsting for him . psal , . . and , by his souls following hard after him , ver . . the same holds in other believers also . r. . because the souls saying , the lord is my portion , is the answering of the soul unto god , calling his elect effectually , by the ministry of the gospel , out of the world and sin and self , unto himself , in jesus christ . there is an outward calling , by the ministry of man onely , of which the prophet speaks , in hos . . . though they called them to the most high , yet none would exalt him . this is ineffectual , unto spiritual conversion , of it self , without the quickening efficacies of the spirit . but when that is added , and worketh with the ministry of man ( which of it self onely soundeth in the ear ) then god speaketh to the heart , hos . . . thereby the father draweth the elect unto his son , ioh. . , . then they hear the voice of the son of god , which they that hear , shall live , ioh. . . the soul being thus quickned , answers the call of god with the obedience of faith , as david found , in psal . . . thou saidst , seek ye my face ; my heart answered , thy face iehovah , i do seek . this answer is the voice of the whole soul unto god. the understanding , being illightned and fully convinced , closeth with god , in christ , as the first truth , and the will chooseth him as the chiefest good ; the affections rest satisfied with him alone , and the whole soul placeth all its happinesse in its injoyment of him , and conformity to him . hope waits for him , desire longeth after him , and joy delighteth in him above all things . the lord calleth the whole soul to come unto him , that it may find true rest , in voluntarily subjecting it self under his yoke . mat. . , . and the whole soul , in all its faculties and affections , answereth , as the church did , in ier. . . lo we come unto thee ; for thou art the lord our god : with renouncing all other refuges , as they did , in ver . . according to that promise , in hos . . . i will say , thou art my people , and they shall say , thou art my god. r. . because the souls saying , the lord is my portion , argues unseigned love of god , in christ . for all the affections depend on love . what a man loveth , as his portion , he desireth to possesse and injoy ; and any impediment thereof stirs up his anger proportionately , to his esteem and love of it . as we see with what eagernesse and earnestnesse , men endeavour to remove any thing that hinders their credits , or estates , &c. now , if any love god above the world , above themselves , they will be more jealous of gods honour then their own , and against that which tends to gods dishonour , more then against what crosseth their own worldly honour . hence will arise hatred against sin , because god hates it , both in our selves , psal . . . and in others , rev. . . anger is against particulars , but hatred is general . anger seeks revenge with moderation , in proportion to the wrong done us , but hatred seeks the destruction of its object . anger is placable , but hatred is implacable . and according to the degree of mens love to any thing , will be their fear of being deprived of it , and separated from it , and of all causes and signes of alienation from it . r. . because the souls saying , the lord is my portion , importeth the highest actings of the soul upon god. when iob said , the things that my soul refused to touch , job . . he shewed the greatest detestation of them ; and when he said , my soul chuseth death rather than life , iob . , he shewed a most vehement desire . and when the lord said , i will plant them in this land assuredly , with my whole heart , and with my whole soul . ier. . . he shewed the firmnesse of his purpose . so , when the soul saith , the lord is my portion , it argues the most full and firm cleaving of a believer unto god , with purpose of heart , as barnabas exhorted them to do , in acts . . else men do not return to him , nor cleave to him , as to the most high , hos . . . unlesse they turn to him with all their heart , joel . . and love him with all their heart , deut. . . for , it is by such a love that faith workes , which is a believing with all the heart , acts . . and produceth obedience from the heart , rom. . . which is done when all the faculties and affections of the soul do open themselves , and stand open , to give entertainment unto god , in christ , as the king of glory , psal . . . when the keyes of the whole house , and every room in it are delivered up for the use and service of a king , he is entertained like a king. inferiour guests are content , one with one room , another with another , and sometimes two have but one room , yea , one bed for them both . but the king must have all . so it is in this case , when the god of glory appeared unto abraham , and called him , abraham obeyed him , without reservation , acts . , . so must we , yea , so will all , whose soules say , the lord is their portion . use . for instruction , in four particulars . . hence learn how a man may know when afflictions are sanctified and blessed unto him , i. e. when the eye of the soul is , by them , turned , . upward , to look unto god , for an interest in him , as their portion . . inward , to reflect upon the inward actings of the soul , that they may know their interest in god , as their portion . indeed afflictions of themselves work the contrary , to estrange us from god , and from our selves , and satan labours to foment and increase a separation of the soul from god , and a division , and distraction of the soul within it self . therefore it is by an over-ruling power and sanctifying efficacy of gods spirit , when they cause us to return unto the lord , hos . . . and to our selves , luke . , . it is a sure rule of discerning ones self to be in the state of grace , when he finds that every condition brings him neerer to god , and every sanctifying gift of grace is quickned to its proper function , to turn the faculty and affection of the soul , in which it is planted , unto god , rom. . , . god is a pure act , alwayes acting , and every one , the neerer he comes to god , the more gracious frame of spirit he hath , and the more spiritual affections , and suitable actings of them , sweetly issuing from thence . . learn hence a profitable use of spiritual soliloquies , which are a mans speaking within himself , to himself , about spiritual things . david prescribes communing with a mans own heart , to further his repentance , psal . . . and himself made use of it , to quicken his faith , psal . . . so the church in my text , in times of affliction , being driven out of their creature-comforts , and expectations , they communed , and parlied with their own souls , to cleer unto themselves their interest in god , as their portion , and to excite their faith and hope in him unto excercise . . learn hence , not to rest in outward profession , in words , that the lord is your portion . many hypocrites say so , whose hearts cleave to some thing else , as their portion ; some to their sinful wills , and wayes . they draw neer unto god with their lips , but their hearts are removed far from him . such were those in hos . . . israel will cry unto me , my god , we know thee , when , israel hath cast off the thing that is good ; even god himself , in whom and from whom is all good , and the good word of god , and the rules thereof ; though they thus departed from him , yet , in their distresse , they were ready to claim an interest in him . others , to their worldly objects . they lay up treasures for themselves on the earth , and there their hearts are , mat. . , . their belly is their god , and portion , that mind earthly things , phil. . . these steal away their hearts from god , even while they are hearing the word , ezek. . . all , to one idol , or other , like those of whom the prophet speaks , in isa . . . among the smooth stones of streams is thy portion ; they , they are thy lot . a woful portion have all such , for at present , their portion is cursed in the earth , job . . . and , for the future , god will rain upon them , snares , fire , and brimstone , and an horrible tempest ; this shall be the portion of their cup , psal . . . again , . rest not in some occasional speeches of some one affection alone . balaam had a transient desire that his latter end might be like theirs , who had the lord for their portion , numb . . . this is but the saying of one assertion , for a short time . nothing is to be accounted as said by the soul , unlesse all the faculties and affections of the soul consent in it , acting suitably , psal . . . . learn hence , to make out for an interest in god , as your portion . this is to be had onely by and in jesus christ , joh. . . for it pleased the father , that in christ , god incarnate , all fulnesse should dwell , col. . . and , that out of his fulnesse we all should receive , and grace for grace , joh. . . so that christ is the immediate fountain of all spiritual blessings unto the elect , eph. . . gods next end , in this dispensation , is , that all men should honour the son , as they honour the father , joh. . . which they do , when they come to the father by the son , joh. . . and therefore come to the son first , seeking to have an interest in him , and then in the father , by union and communion with him , through faith in the son of god , joh. . . let those who are out of christ , see their misery , in that state , and the remedy thereof in christ , and accordingly value him above all things , rev. . , . mat. . . let those that have him , seek more full communion with him , prizing that above all things , phil. . , . and answerably prize the word , as david , who said unto god , the law of thy mouth is better unto me then thousands of gold and silver , psal . . . see that the word be mixed with faith in your hearts , to receive christ thereby , as god offereth him unto you in his word , joh. . . shew it to be so , really , and not in outward profession onely , by setting your affections on things above , where christ sitteth at the right hand of god , col. . , . and by your driving an heavenly trade , in this world , phil. . . use . for comfort to all who can thussay , the lord is their portion i. e. to all true believers , who know that their soul saith the lord is their portion ; be exhorted to rejoyce in your portion , rejoyce in the lord alwayes , and again , i say , rejoyce , phil. . . have you plenty of outward things ? rejoyce not in them , but in the lord , ier. . , . in him alone you have fully enough . there is a vast difference between iacobs portion and esau's , though the translation holdeth forth each of them , as saying , i have enough , yet the original varieth their expressions , esau said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i have much , gen. . . but jacob said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i have all , ver . . esau had much in worldly things , but not enough : jacob had enough in god , who was his all-sufficient portion . are you in any want ? habent omnia qui habent habentem omnia . they cannot want any thing ; who have him to be their portion , who hath all things . in wants of outward things , say with david , psal . . . the lord is my shepherd , i shall want nothing ; and with the church , hab. . , . although the fig-tree shall not blossome , nor fruits be in the vine , and the fields yield no meat , the flocks shall be cut off from the fold , and no herds in the stalls , yet i will rejoyce in the lord , i will joy in the god of my salvation . in spiritual wants , the god of all grace , wisdom , power , and goodnesse , is your god and portion ; you have all in him , and shall have all that is good for you from him , psal . . . are you in fear of dangers ? say , as david , in psal . . . the lord is my light and my salvation , whom shall i fear , &c. psal . . , , . again , god is our refuge and strength , a very present help in trouble ; therefore will not we fear , though the earth be moved , &c. psal . . , , , . lastly , are you in as great distresse as david was , in sam. . , , , ? yet even then take the course that he took . what was that ? david comforted himself in the lord his god. so do you , rejoyce in this your portion . for it is , . all-sufficient . . everlasting . lam. . . therefore will i hope in him , we have already spoken of two parts of the text ; the assertion , the lord is my portion , and the proof of it ; saith my soul . vve now proceed to the third , the inference , which the church draws from the premises ; therefore will i hope in him . in which words three particulars are to be noted . . the reason , whereupon their hope was grounded [ therefore . ] . the resolution of their will to act according to that reason [ i will. ] . the act it self resolved upon , together with the proper object of it [ hope in him . ] for the first , the reason , whereupon their hope was grounded . this illative particle , therefore , notes the result of a discourse in the minds of believers , whereby they compare one thing with another , and gather one thing from another ; and thence conclude to act suitably to the truest and best reason . faith is an understanding grace , and knowes what use to make of the souls interest in god. when a man hath god for his portion , and knows it , thence faith inferreth it is my duty , and it is for my good to hope in him : therefore i will hope in him . reason of it self , in this corrupt state of fallen man , cannot teach men to hope in god. but when god hath in the word of promise given himself to us to be our portion , and faith hath closed with him , as our portion ; and the word telleth us it is our duty , and for our good to hope in him , then faith seeth good reason that we should hope in him . faith useth reason , though not as the ground , yet as a sanctified instrument , to find out gods grounds , that it may rely upon him , he believes best , who best knows , why he believes , and he best hopes in god , who can give the best reasons for his hoping in him . the affections , though they have not reason grafted in them , yet they are thus farre reasonable , that , in all that are godly-wise , they are raised up , and laid down , guided , and actuated , by sanctified reason , which is the highest and best reason . doct. they that hope in god a right , have their hope in him raised , and strengthened by good and strong reasons . reasons fetched from god , and from the souls knowing its interest in him , as his portion ▪ are good and strong reasons , for our hoping in him ; and such are the reasons which the church , in my text , gives of their hoping in god. they considered gods all-sufficiency , in himself , and to every one that hath him for his portion , and what interest themselves had in him , through faith in christ , and thereupon conclude ; therefore will i hope in him . so may all believers . r. . from the inseparable connection of hope with faith : faith believes in christ , and in god through christ , upon gods authority in his word , and what faith believes , hope expects . the reasons for a believers hoping in god , are as good and strong , as for his believing in him . for , as , naturally , beams come from the sun , and branches from the root ; so , by spiritual discourse , one truth issueth from another ; and , as the sun and its beams , the roots and branches , are all of one nature ; so the grounds of comfortable truths , and reasons taken from those grounds , are both of the same divine authority in themselves . though in us , discourse is apt to be so troubled , in times of temptation , that we cannot see how one truth ariseth upon another ; yet so far as faith sees god to be our portion ▪ the soul sees good and strong reason for our hoping in him for all good , that may suit all our needs , in the best season . r. . from the convincing light , which the spirit of god bringeth into the soul , when he worketh faith and hope in it . it is the office and work of the spirit , to convince , and , by convincing , to comfort , joh. . , . conviction is a clear and infallible demonstration , and comfort is a demonstration , with application unto us , of better and stronger reasons to raise us up , then those are which tend to cast down our souls . when the spirit convinceth , he bringeth such a full and powerful light into the soul , as silenceth all disputes and cavils , and causeth the soul to yeeld , as overcome by the evidence and authority of the light and truth brought into it . light hath a convincing property and force in it . when we see the light of the sun , we know it is day , and will not believe those that shall deny it , though they were ten thousands , because the convinction hereof is undeniable , it is an unreasonable thing to deny it . so the spirit of god brings an undeniable light into the soul , which discovers the vanity of those windings , and turnings , whereof mens deceitful hearts are so full , that there can be no thorough conviction , and effectual to salvation , without the efficacy of the holy spirit . a common conviction there may be , by the light of nature , or of a natural conscience , or of some common transient work of the holy spirit , but that is but weak : for either it discovers but little , as a little spark shews little light , not enough to lighten the room , by overcomming the darknesse , and turning it into light ; or the light , which it shews , it shews but weakly , like a flash of lightning , or a blaze in straw , that is soon out again . but saving convinction is a greater and stronger light , like the light of the sun , which is a full and powerful light . this is onely from the sanctifying spirit of god. this light shewes the evil of sin , and the good of the contrary , in their spiritual nature , and compasse , and drawes the will answerably , from the one to the other , by converting grace , acts . . this light is abiding in the renewed soul . thus the church , in my text , was convinced and comforted , in their great distresse , by the spirit and word of god , so as they could hold forth good and strong reasons , whereupon their hope was strengthened , and their hearts were comforted in sad houres . vse . for instruction , two-fold : . learn hence to examine and trie the reasons , whereby you are moved to act ; whether they they be good , or not good , reason is a beam of gods light . what comes from god , carrieth the soul to god ; therefore that which drawes the soul from god cannot be a good reason , it is not right reason , but falsely called reason , it is not from faith , but from unbelief , not good but evil , heb. . . hence , no good reason can be given for any s●n● . what ever reasons are pretended for it , they are not according to gods logick , but the devils sophistrie , jam. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they deceive themselves with false syllogismes . you may find in jam. . . three topicks , from whence all such arguings are fetcht , the world , the flesh , and the devil , the three great enemies of gods glory , and of christs kingdom in us ; yet they will pretend their good intention for gods honour , when they seek no themselves worldly profits by disobeying gods commandement . so did saul ; but samuel refuted all his false pleas , . sam. . , , . see how the scripture reproves such as encourage themselves to do evil , that good may come thereon , rom. . , . job sharply took up his friends for this , in job . . . will you speak wickedly for god , and talk deceitfully for him ? yet , thus the devill deceive●● his active instruments against christ , the time commeth ( saith christ , in joh. . . ) that whosoever killeth you , will think be doth god : service . there are that argue from worldly advantages to encourage men to sin , prov. . . but christ shews the pernicious delusion of such reasonings , in mat. . . others from the pleasure of carnal liberty , but peter shews the falsenesse of that plea , in pet. . . others from worldly preferment of wicked men , mal. . . which the prophet confuteth in verse . some from gods patience , which god himself answereth , in psal , . , . such as these are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the reasonings of natural men , rom. . . which should warn all men to deny their carnal wisdom , which is enmity against god , rom. . . . learn hence to examine and try the goodnesse and strength of the reasons , whereupon it is grounded , remembring that rule , in , pet. . . be ready alwayes to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you . you say , you hope in god , if you have no reason for it ; it s a foolish unreasonable hope . if you have but slight reasons ; it s a vain hope . and such is hope of the most : one grounds his hope of salvation upon his creation ; saying , i am gods creature , and he hath not made me to damne me : therefore , i hope he will save me . see the delusion of this plea , . are not the devils gods creatures ? yet they are damned . . though gods end in making you , was not to damne you , yet your impenitency in sin , and unbelief will damne you . . see the lords own refutation of this plea , in isa . . . another grounds his hope of blessednesse upon gods blessing him , as he calls it , with worldly successe , and prosperity . but christ shews the vanity of this hope in that rich man in hell , luke . . and by telling us that it is that they shall be destroyed for ever , psal . . . gods end in prospering such in the world , is like hesters end in feasting haman . another grounds his hope that he shall have heaven hereafter , because he hath had his hell , through afflictions , in this life . but such consider not what the word saith concerning sodom and gomorrah , jude . suffering the vengeance of eternal fire . what misery wicked impenitent sinners suffer here , is but a beginning and pledge to them of hell hereafter . another grounds his hope upon his christian priviledges and performances . but this is plentifully refuted in scripture , by johns speech to the pharisees , mat. . . and pauls to the romans , rom. . . and concerning himself , phil. . . others ground their hope upon gods mercy , though they continue in their sins . this indeed is a good reason for hope , in those that confesse and forsake their sin , prov. . . but for those that abuse this mercy to the hardning of themselves in sin by it , see how the lord thunders against such , in deut. . , . others ground their hope upon their own self-flattering and self-deceiving thoughts of themselves . such may see their own folly and madnesse , by what the scripture saith , in prov. . . and gal. . . let all such , and the like , renounce their ungrounded hope , which , like that broken reed of aegypt , isa . . . will at once both fail them , and ruin them . till you have an interest in god and christ , as your portion , you are without hope , eph. . . therefore the first work of the spirit , in the soul , by the gospel , and one great end of the ministry thereof , is , to make way for true faith and hope , by casting down those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , reasonings , and bringing into captivity every thought , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every sophistical reasoning , to the obedience of christ . cor. . . vse . for exhortation to believers , being under temptations and afflictions , whether outward or inward , to improve the reasons , which faith supplieth , for the quickening and strengthening of their hope in god. for , in such times , faith is put to it to use reasons . indeed the soul needeth not that help so much , when it is in a clear and quiet state , for upon its close and sweet communion with god , in christ , and from some likenesse between the renewed soul and god , it presently , and without praevious discourse , runneth to god , as by a supernatural instinct ; as , by natural instinct , the child runneth to his natural parents in danger , and distresse , with confidence . but , in dark times of great afflictions , and temptations , faith is put to use arguments , and reasons to quicken and strengthen hope . accordingly , study the grounds of hope , and improve them for your help . . such as may be supplied from the inward store laid up in the soul , as the church did in my text. . such as are , or may be , suggested by others : harken , and yield to them , and close with them . for , thus you will shew that you have a frame of spirit suitable to any holy and comfortable truth , that shall be presented and applied to it . there is a principle in every renewed spirit , that closeth with whatever commeth from gods spirit , that readily claimes acquaintance and kindred with it , as comming from the same blessed spring , the holy spirit . when asaph found the contrary in himself , that his soul refused comfort , and he remembred god and was troubled , psal . . . he saw , and said , this is mine infirmity , ver . . he saw that it arose from a sicknesse , a spiritual disease , and distemper in his soul . while passion and temptation disturbe the soul , they hinder the exercise of spiritual reason : as we see in david , who said , in his haste , all men are liars , psal . . , . this he saw afterward , when his spiritual reason had recovered it self , which before by his distemper was hindred in its working ; then he admired god for his benefits toward him , notwithstanding his provocation of him to have taken a contrary course with him , ver . labour therefore , . that your mind , which is the seat of principles , be well furnished with divine and spiritual truths . for false principles can never produce true comforts . as onely truth sanctifieth , joh. . . so truth onely truly comforteth . there is the same reason of both . for it is the peculiar office of the holy spirit , both to sanctifie , and to comfort : and the holy spirit is the spirit of truth , ioh. . . therefore he will not work by a falshood , but onely by truth , either sanctification , or consolation . . see that your understanding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the dianoetical , discoursing faculty , which is the seat of conclusions , be used to deduce from spiritual principles , such spiritual conclusions as they are apt to beget . for , by false reasonings , in times of affliction and temptation . . believers hinder their faith and hope , when they reason too much from sense and present feeling , isa . . . and . . ezek. . . . others have false comforts from the light of a fire kindled by themselves , isa . . . but , if , renouncing such reasonings , you flie to christ and his righteousnesse alone , for your acceptance with god , through faith in his blood , with true repentance ; then you may reason with god , isa . . . though not in your own strength or worth , iob . , . yet you may reason with him in faithful fervent prayer , in gen. . , . . whereby he prevailed and got both a new blessing and a new name , ver . . fervent prayers are strong reasonings with god , in christs strength , and for his sake . this will be well pleasing to god. for , as , when god cals for our obedience , he adds perswasives to his precepts , and reasoneth with us as well as commandeth us ; so he allowed us , in prayer , to add perswasions to our petitions , and to reason with him as well as intreat him . onely , it must be our care that we reason from right topicks , and heads of arguments : such as these , . from the infinitenesse and freenesse of gods merccy and grace . . from the immutable firmnesse of his covenant and promises in christ . . from our indigence and dependance upon him . . from the concernments of his glory , and our necessary good . in such reasonings of faith and hope , the spirit , strength , and life of prayer consisteth . such pleadings , in the name of christ , god approveth and requireth , isa . . . . see that the heart , which is the seat of practical knowledge be fitted to order the conversation and practice , by sound principles , in the mind , and right conclusions , in the understanding ; that mental discourse may not vanish in meer empty speculation . as , in my text , the lord is my portion , is the principle laid up in their mind , saith my soul , is the proof it ; the conclusion to be from thence inferred , is , therefore it is my duty to hope in him . this knowledge becomes practical , when the heart so receiveth it , that the will comes to a resolution ; therefore i will hope in him . which is the next particular to be spoken to . lam. . . therefore i will hope in him . the reason alledged by the church is , not so much an argument to convince the judgment ( though it contains that also , as we have before proved ) as a motive to induce and incline the will to hope in god. for trusting and hoping in god , being a relying and waiting upon god for future good , do especially carry the will to him . as the understanding is led with truth , so the will is led with the goodnesse of things . as the judgment must be convinced of gods ability , so the heart must be sweetned with his love and readinesse to do us good , for the future , that we may hope in him . for meer knowledge and discourse cannot draw the heart to trust and hope in god , except it hath a rellish of his goodnesse . therefore david saith , o taste and see that the lord is good , psal . . . those reasons are most prevailing to incline the will towards god , which are drawn from the goodnesse of god , whereby the heart is opened and enlarged to expect all good , and nothing but good from him , who is goodnesse it self , and our god and portion , in jesus christ . this rellish is wrought in the renewed soul , by the spirit of faith , together with a light to discern our interest in god. doct. the reasons whereby believers are quickned and strengthened to hope in god , do strongly incline their will to resolve to hope in him . this is obvious frequently in scripture , that when the will is inclined to any spiritual good , it is upon spiritual reasons , the spirit of god joyning his efficacy therewith , and leaving a powerful rellish of that good in the soul . this you may see in psal . . . cant. . , . ier. . . and in sundry texts . r. . from the different manner of the souls guiding the will , and the bodily members . the soul swayeth the will and affections , as counsellors doe a well ordered state , by propounding reasons to them . but the soul governeth the bodily members , as a master doth his slaves , by meer command . the will moves the hands and feet , &c. by command , without giving them reasons . but the will and affections move not without reason , or at least a shew of reason . god made man an understanding creature , indued with rational faculties , the understanding to be the leading faculty , and the will to be the appetite of the soul , according to reason . therefore it moves toward such a good as is presented to it by the illightned mind , or understanding , as the most 〈◊〉 and unquestionable object of it . for the freedom and willing consent of the heart is not without rules to order it ; but it is therefore said be free , because , whether , out of a true judgment , it moves one way , or , out of a false , another way ; yet , in both , it moves , in a manner suitable to its own condition . for this reason it is that god condiscends so far to us , in his word , as to give us so many reasons to hope in 〈◊〉 ; that our wils might be drawn thereunto , by suitable reasons . r , . from the manner of the spirits putting forth his efficacy to incline the wils of believers to hope in god. the heart of man , naturally , is not apt , but averse , hereunto , even when the understanding sees good reasons for it . therefore the will must necessarily be renewed and changed . this change consists in altering the bent , and inclination of the will , which the spirit of god doth , by bringing into the soul a new light , and powerful influence . . a new light , whereby we are inabled to see other things , or the same truths in a more spiritual and effectual manner , those impedimens being removed , which might hinder the evidence of spiritual truths , and the judgment being fully convinced , that we might know things not onely notionally , but practically , as we ought to know them , cor. . . this is that illumination and revelation , whereof the scripture speaks , in eph. . , . cor. . . joh. . . . a powerful influence : jesus christ , both opened the understanding of his disciples , luke . . and caused their hearts to burn within them , when he spake unto them , ver . . by this powerful influence the spirit makes every faculty and affection of the renewed soul , to work unto supernatural ends , and objects , according to its proper manner . as the soul , in the bodily eye , causeth it to see , and , in the ear , causeth it to hear , and , in the tongue , causeth it to speak , &c. so the spirit , in the mind , causeth it to understand aright , and , in every affection , causeth it freely to choose and cleave unto christ , and to god , in him , and , in every affection , causeth it to move towards christ and god , in such a manner and way of working , as is suitable to its nature . this the holy spirit doth , by creating and implanting in-dwelling lively spiritual gifts of grace in the soul , which he thereby sanctifieth and lifteth up unto god in christ ; the faculties and affections , which were by nature set upon the world and sin , and self , being now , by grace set upon things above , and so are said to be quickned and made alive unto god. hence every spiritual gift of grace , whereby any faculty and affection of the soul is sanctified , is called the spirit of that faculty and affection . the sanctified disposition of the mind is called , the spirit of a sound mind , tim. . : the gift of faith is called , the spirit of faith , cor. . . so the gift of love , and of fear of the lord , is called , the spirit of love , tim. . . and the spirit of the fear of the lord , isa . . . because the holy spirit , dwelling in the soul , infuseth those gifts into it , and so reneweth the faculties and affections of it , psal . . . and , . quickeneth and exciteth these spiritual gifts , and by them the faculties and affections unto spiritual acts . without this quickening influence , those spiritual gifts would be , in the soul , un-acted , as the bodily senses are , in sleep , or as a ship in a calme , at sea , act● agimus . we act , but instrumentally , subordinately under the spirit , who is the principal , efficient and agent , in all spiritual good . we act , but not in our strength , nor in the strength of grace received , but from the quickening , strengthening influence of the spirit . as trees , though they have in them a seminal vertue , yet , except they be helped by influence from heaven , cannot bring forth their fruits ; so it is with these spiritual trees of righteousnesse , as believers are called , in isa . . . it is god that worketh in us , both to will , and to do , of his good pleasure , phil. . . vse . for instruction , threefold : . hence we may learn the true reason , why the sudden resolutions of many to reforme this and that , and to do this and that particular , are so weak and mutable , as the morning cloud , and as the early dew , hos . . . which soon vanish . some , at an heart-searching and soul-piercing sermon , are affected , as that young man , till they are put upon such conditions , as their praedominant lust will not accept , mat. . , . others , in some strong convictions and awakenings of conscience , are affected , as saul was for his unrighteous dealing with david , and do purpose against it , as he did , yet afterward with him return to their former sin again , sam. . , . with . . some , in great sicknesses , others , in great dangers by land , or sea , resolve that they will become new men , if god will be pleased to spare them , or deliver them , this time ; of whom the lord may complain , as he did of the children of israel in iudg. . , , . the reason is , because they are unregenerate , they are in their natural state . such may have a notional light , in their minds , and awakenings of their natural consciences , and stirrings in their affections , and sudden purposes toward god , and christ , and spiritual things , from a transient work of the spirit , exciting their innate principle of self-love thereunto , for a time ; during which , they are in a better mood , but not in a better state : as in sicknesses , the fits may be altered , yet the sicknesse remain in its strength . new resolutions , in an un-renewed heart , are like seed in an unsuitable soil , which prospers not , but withers , and dies , and comes to nothing , at last . how many such are now in hell ; where their remembrance of such fruitlesse , ineffectual purposes gnaweth their consciences , as a never-dying worm , and torments them for ever . . hence we may learn , whence it is that true believers have such firm resolutions of cleaving to god , in christ , and of hoping in him , when he hideth his face from them , in great afflictions , isa . . . ion. . . the reason of it is , because their hearts are purified by faith , acts . . which is seated principally , in the will , whereby it receiveth christ , ioh. . . rom. . . tim. . and is the effect of the operation of god , col. . . by his exceeding greatnesse of power , eph. . , . whose peculiar glory it is , to perswade the heart , gen. . . and to draw the will , to come unto christ , ioh. . . which he doth , by changing the disposition , inclination , and bent of it . if you offer green boughs unto swine ; they regard them not , but trample them under their feet ; but if their nature were changed into the nature of sheep , then they would be drawn to them . this is done by the spirit of god. cor. . . before regeneration , the will is in bondage unto sin , but , being united unto christ , in regeneration , the son makes us free indeed , ioh. . . then the will freely moveth towards god , in christ , by faith and hope ; as a man , though he cannot give life to himself being dead , yet , when he is made alive , he can move himself , from a principle of life in him . so much faith as a man hath , so much free-will he hath to hope in god , in the worst times . so far as his spiritual grace and strength goes , so far he is able , by the concourse of gods spirit , which he usually joyns with the ability he hath given to his people , that it may be quickened and actuated thereby . a man cannot act his natural abilities , he cannot move his hand or foot , unlesse he be assisted with gods general concourse : so a man can do nothing in spiritual actions , without special concourse of grace in christ . ioh. . . but , being assisted , with a supply of the spirit , proportioned to the exigencies of services to be performed , and of temptations to be resisted , and of corruptions to be mortified , he may say , as paul did , phil. . . i can do all things , through christ , which strengtheneth me . . hence we may learn , in what manner believers in christ resolve to hope in god. this resolution in them may be known and distinguished from the resolutions of others , by four characters or properties . . it is a sanctified resolution . it is the effect of gods holy spirit dwelling in them , and removing far from them vanity and lying , pro. . . that is , vain and false apprehensions of things , and turning their whole soul unto god , in christ , to seek all their good in him . this is the effect of converting grace , as the prophet shews , in isa . . , . at that day shall a man look to his maker , &c. . it is an obedient resolution , in answer to gods calling them to himself , in christ , psal . . . it is the yielding up of their wills to be ruled by gods will psal . . . when mens wils are not subdued and conformed unto gods will , they are , in times of affliction , like sullen birds in a cage , which beat themselves to death ; like peevish froward children , which will be pleased with nothing , if their wills be crossed in any thing . but when the will is subdued unto gods will , by the spirit , through the minis●●y of the gospel , cor. . . then we can say , with asaph , it 's good for me to draw near to god , psal . . ult . and , with david , sam. . . let the lord do with me what seemeth good in his own eyes . . it is a rational resolution , led by the best reasons . for , faith believes in christ , and in god , through christ upon gods authority and faithfulnesse and truth , in his word and covenant . hence it ministreth reasons to quicken and strengthen hope , from gods all-sufficiency , and love , in christ , and faithfulnesse in his promises to expect and wait upon god for all good from him , suitable to our needs , in the best season ; and to resolve , as job did , who said , though he kill me , yet will i trust in him , iob . . and ( if they see cause to complain ) to complain , not of god , but to god , nor of their crosses , but of the crossenesse of their wils to gods holy will ; as ephraim did , in ier. . . it is a dependent resolution , relying upon god , in christ , for ability to hope in him , isa . . . and therefore praying to him , as david did , in psal . . ult . and to keep it ever in the purpose of their hearts , chron. . . with true self denial of any sufficiency of themselves , so much , as to think any thing , cor. . . thus they become strong in the lord , and in the power of his might , eph. . . lam. . . hope in him . the last thing to be spoken to , is the duty esolved upon , illustrated by its objectr ▪ which is , to exercise divine hope ; for so i call that hope , which hath god for its object and efficient , who is therefore called the god of hope , rom. . . and for its ground , the word of god , as this hope hath , psal . . . the word in the original , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated hope , signifieth , to expect ; which is the formal act of hope . hence we may gather a definition of this divine hope . it is a lively , spiritual in-dwelling gift of grace , whereby believers are inclined to expect , in and from god , what ever good they want , and he hath promised . . for the general nature of it , which it hath in common with other fruits of the spirit ; it is , . a lively gift of grace , an holy quality , or habit , or disposition , freely given of god ; hereby it is distinguished from that hope , which is meerly a natural affection . for , the natural affection of hope is , by corrupt nature , set upon a mans self , and earthly things , and cannot savour the things of god ; and therefore is said to be dead . it 's an hope that hath given up the ghost , job . . natural men are big with hopes , as they that are with child , and are in pain , to bring their hopes to the birth ; but instead thereof , they bring forth wind . after long looking and hard labour , all is but a gripe of wind , like a fit of the collick , as the prophet intimates , in isa . . . but , by this gift of grace , which i call divine hope , that affection is sanctified , and lifted up unto god , and set upon him and heavenly things , and so quickened and made alive unto god. whence believers are said to be begotten again to a lively hope , pet. . . this gift of grace i describe further by two properties : . spiritual , it is a spiritual gift , for two reasons : . because it is created and perfected in believers by the power of the holy spirit , rom. . . . because it makes them spiritual , in whom it is wrought , cor. . . and fit instruments for gods spiritual service , pet. . . . in-dwelling ; i call it an in-dwelling gift : . because it abides in all that are in christ . union with christ doth not extinguish it in believers . therefore , when believers are said to be dead , in col. . . it is not meant , in respect of sanctifying gifts of grace , inhaerent in them , as if they were dead , and the faculties and affections of their souls were immediately acted by the holy spirit ; but , in respect of sin , they are dead unto sin , but alive unto god , through our lord jesus christ , rom. . . . because it it is not a transient work upon us , nor abiding in the holy ghost , though he abideth in us ( for no created gifts or qualities abide in him ; for whatsoever is in him is himself ) but it is wrought , preserved , increased , actuated , and perfected in us by the holy ghost , as all other sanctifying inhaerent gifts of grace are . so much for the general nature of this divine hope . . the subject recipient of it are believers . for this hope is grounded on faith in the promises , gal. . . therefore , in the old testament , trusting in god , and hoping in god , are promiscuously used in one and the same sense , and in pet. . . hope is put for faith . for they both act to-together inseparably , in supporting the soul , in times of affliction ; yet , in their manner of acting , there are some differences between them . for , . the adaequate object of faith is the whole word of god , holding forth good and evil , promises and threatnings , blessings and cursings . but the object of hope is good onely . . faith , in its relying upon the promises , looks to the word promising , and to the authority of god , the promiser ; but hope to the good promised , and to the goodnesse of the promiser . . faith looks to all times , past , present , and to come , and makes future things present , psal . . . but hope looks onely at good things , and at those onely as future . . faith lookes at god , as the first truth ; hope relies on god , as the chief good . . the formal act of hope is expectation . therefore it is said to look for him , in a way of waiting for him , isa . . . the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is well translated , earnest expectation , in rom. . . phil. . . it being a metaphor taken from the bodily gestures of those who look for some person or thing , with earnest desire , and assurance , lifting up and putting forth their head , stretching out their neck , fixing their eyes with intention and observation , to shew the strength , firmnesse , and certainty of this hope . for the object of this divine hope is principally god himself , pet. . . and secondarily , all those means and degrees , whereby believers come unto god , ver . ● . unto whom this hope looketh , with waiting upon him for all the good they want , and he hath promised : so that this hope is certain and infallible , being objectated upon god , founded in faith , and grounded upon the promises of god , who cannot lie , tit. . . hence it supporteth the heart , in the worst times . doct. hoping in god a right is a special means of supporting the soul against discouragement , in times of great afflictions . the scriptures are innumerable which confirm and prove this truth : and it must be so for these reasons . r. . from the formal object of divine hope , which is god himself , in whom alone is to be found all ability and readinesse to do good unto those that hope in him , and wait upon him , in such times . . all ability to help is in god alone . princes are of greatest abilities among men , yet we are forbidden to trust in princes , in whom there is no help , psal . . . men commonly think themselves happy in the favour and protection of princes : but they are deceived . therefore it is added , in ver . . happy is he that hath the god of jacob for his help , whose hope is in the lord his god. for no creature hath ability , of it self , and what ever ability god hath put into any , yet the exercise and successe of it depends on god alone . except the lord build the house , they labour in vain that build it : except the lord keep the city , the watchman waketh but in vain . it is in vain to rise up early , to go to bed late , to eat the bread of sorrows . so he will give his beloved quiet sleep , psal . . , . that is , in their resting upon him , building , keeping , giving them bread without sorrows . therefore , when men say , they hope for this or that , from such a creature ; either they mean , they hope to receive it from god , by such a creature , or it notes , not a divine , but a meer humane hope ; or it is , not a christian , but a vain hope . . as god onely is able , so he is alwayes ready to do good to all those that hope in him . for he is infinite , as well in goodnesse , as in power . thou are good and doest good , psal . . . this david largely shewes by sundry instances , in two cases . . in deliverances , where of he notes four examples , in psal . . . of men wandering in the wildernesse , ver . . to . . of prisoners , ver . . to . . of persons dangerously sick , ver . . to . . of men in great danger , by storms , at sea , ver . . to . in all which , he saih , god helps men crying to him , when all help and hope in the creature fails them . . in various changes of mens outward conditions ; in reference , both to the increase of the fruits of the earth , or to the diminishing of them , whereby men become rich , or poor , ver . . to . and to mens preferment , or abasement , ver . , . the summe of all is , that , which the psalmist saith elsewhere , in psal . . . god is our refuge and strength , a very present help in trouble . ob. seeing hope is of things future , and god is a present help ; how can it be said , that god is the object of our hope ? answ . . god is , not onely a present help ; but also a future help , even for ever . and so he is the object both of our faith and hope , pet. . . and , for the future , hope relyes upon god , though the soul doth injoy him , at present , as our god. . that he will continue his goodnesse to us . this god is our god , and he will be our guide unto death , psal . . ult . . that we shall have a more cleer and full sight of him , psal . . . . that he will supply all our need , phil. . . and that he will multiply grace and peace unto us . pet. . . and that , as he is the god of all grace , he will , after we have suffered a while , make us perfect , stablish , strengthen , settle us , pet. . . these future good things hope expects , and . at last eternal salvation . therefore it is called , the hope of salvation , thess . . . the hope of glory , rom. . . and the hope of eternal life , tit. . . all which are good things to come , and though difficult , yet possible to be had , by his help , and are most certain , by vertue of his promise , in christ , which is the ground of this hope . hence hope is called an anchor sure and steadfast , heb. . . r. . from gods manner of bringing the soul and this object , himself , together , by this hope . for . by effectual convincing and humbling the soul , he prepares it for this hope . he gives them the valley of achor for a door of hope , hos . . . . he doth it , by revealing his grace to a soul so prepared . to this end , . he openeth the eyes of their understanding , eph. . . . having given them a spiritual eye-sight : he layes his grace and goodnesse in christ , before them , by the ministry of the gospel , eph. . . . he particularly applyeth the same to them , as theirs , by the ministry of the word , acts . . and by the efficacy of the spirit , psal . . . so that now they can look upon god , in the covenant of grace , as their god , cor. . . and upon all the good of the covenant , as a legacy given unto them by christ , in his last will and testament , pet. . . hence what they yet have not , in sense , they see ground to hope for , psal . . ult . and this hope supports the heart under great affliction , upon three main propps : . the power of gods grace : . to pardon many and great great sins , rom. . . . to perform all his promises , how difficult so ever it may seem to our sense and reason , rom. . . to . . to comfort in all tribulations , cor. . , . . to help in all distresses , cor. . , . . upon the freenesse of gods grace and promise , notwithstanding all our un-worthynesse , isa . . . mich. . . . upon the reality of gods good purposes towards us , declared by sending his son , and his sons comming , to bring us to god , luke . . pet. . . and christs calling us unto himself , mat. . , . and the fathers drawing us unto his son , joh. . , . the rellish which believers have of the sweetnesse of gods grace , in christ , turneth the eye of their soul towards him , in desires and expectations of further good from him , psal . . . r. . from the effects of this hope , all which shew that the soul is supported by it . . it brings comfort to the soul . therefore rejoycing is joyned with this hope , rom. . . there is joy in hope of good to come , though it be yet absent . because the soul hath a taste of it , in the beginnings , and first fruits . now joy strengthens the heart answerably to the degree of it . the joy of god is your strength , neh. . . as when a man seeth the clouds begin to clear , in a time of rain , he is comforted , in hope that it will be fair weather ; so when the soul , under great affliction , seeth some glimpse of the light of gods countenance , his hope and joy reviveth , and is increased , as that is more cleared unto him , pet. . , . . it quieteth and setleth the heart in peace proportionably to the measure of our trusting and hoping in god ; moses found it so , at the red sea. exod , . . and david , at ziglag , sam. . . . it makes the heart patient in waiting on god , with submission to his good pleasure , psal . . . & . . how is god their strength in the time of trouble ? by strengthening their hope to wait patiently and quietly upon him , not using any indirect and unlawful means to escape or come out of trouble . the lord cryed , concerning this : their strength is to sit still , isa . . . . it causeth the soul to cleave unto god , whatever befals them in the way of obedience , rom. . . heb. . . vse . for reproof of two sorts : . all unregenerate persons may be hence convinced that their state is wretched and miserable , upon two grounds : . because they have no hope in god , eph. . . a christlesse state is an hopelesse state , and an hopelesse state is the worst condition . they pretend to this hope , but without ground , and an ungrounded hope is a self-deluding hope . the object of their hope shall fail them , mat. . , . and the hope which they seem to have , shall perish , and be cut off , iob . , . it shall be as a spiders web , finely spun , but not firm , it s but an hope of their own making , as the spiders web is wrought out of its own bowels ; and , as the spider thinks it self , when it is lodged in its web , so they think themselves safe in their salse hope ; but as the spiders web is easily and suddenly swept away , so shall their hope be by gods beesome , isa . . . . because they abound in vain hopes ; in themselves , luke . . in men , isa . . . in riches , tim. . . in chariots and horses , psal . . . in their mental and bodily abilities , prov. . . jer. . , . such hopes argue ignorance , pride , atheism , idolatry , setting up the creature above god , jer. . , . the effects also are pernicious . . losse , jon. . . phil. . . . disappointment , ier. . . . to be ashamed of their hope , iob . . isa . . . and . . and . . . great hurt , hos . . . ephraim feedeth on wind , and followeth the east-wind . the east wind , in those eastern countries , was an hot skorching wind , that blasted things , and made them wither , gen. . . ezek. . . as pharaoh was to the people of israel , so are all false objects of hope , the staffe of a broken reed , whereon if a man leane , it will go into his hand and pierce it , isa . . . many have found it so , on their death beds , and in hell for ever . . hence believers are to be reproved , who do not exercise this hope , but give way to discouragement , in times of affliction . for , . hereby they make themselves unfit to perform duties towards god and men , in a right manner . towards god , in prayer , and receiving the word and the outward seales of the covenant , and in thanks-giving and praysing god. towards men , in an amiablenesse towards all , and in merciful helpfulnesse towards the afflicted . . they dishonour religion , by strengthening ignorant and profane persons , in a false conceit , that religion is but a melancholick humour . . they weaken themselves and others . themselves ; for , from fainting , comes discouragement , and thence , halting , and from thence an aptnesse to be turned out of the good way . for take away hope , and you take away all endeavor . others also , if they be weak , will be offended ; and , if they be prejudiced , will be apt to insult and to twit such , as eliphaz did iob , in iob . . to . . they give satan great advantages against themselves , who diligently observeth such times , when christians are under deep despondency of spirit , when they have laid aside their helmet , to wound and weaken them more , he will then ply them with suggestions , to make them believe any thing against god , and against the scripture , and against themselves , and to conclude desperate things , to their own hurt . object . this is my case ; therefore i never had a right hope in god. answ . thus one iscouragement followes upon another , as circles in the water , whereinto a stone is cast , which should humble you for neglect of stirring up your hope unto excercise . but yet , let it not discourage you . for true hope is sometimes in a believer , as in those trees , spoken of in isa . . . whose substance is in them when they cast their leaves . it is onely winter with you , then life is hid in the root , though no signe of it appears outwardly ; that you may learn not to trust in grace received , but in christ ; depending on him to quicken and actuate his own gifts of grace in you , waiting with fervent desires and prayers for the sun of righteousnesse to arise upon you , with healing in his wings . in the mean time , remember that christ himself hath pronounced them blessed , who are poor in spirit , and mourn , are meek , and hunger and thirst after righteousnesse , and that he hath promised unto such , that heaven is theirs , they shall be comforted , shall inherit the earth , and shall be satisfied . let such encouragements quicken your hope , and quiet your hearts , that it shall be with you , according to his word , and that your hope so grounded , shall not make you ashamed . vse . for instruction , in three particulars : . how to bring and keep the object and this act , god and this hope together . . how to try , whether you hope in god aright , or not . . how to exercise this hope , in sundry cases , in which you may be called to the practice of it . this instruction is necessary , at all times , and especially , in these times , wherein we may have more necessitous use of this hope , then many do imagine . therefore i shall the more studiously insist in clearing these particulars , speaking to the first , at this time , with the help of christ . . how to bring and keep the object and act , god and this hope together . the holy pen-man of the epistle to the hebrewes , in heb. . . compares the church of god to an house ; saying , whose house we are , if we hold fast the confidence , and rejoycing of hope firme to the end . as it is in the building of an house , so it must be in the building of this hope . in the building of an house , that it may be strong , and kept strong , three things are necessary : . that a strong foundation be well laid . . that the house be strongly built upon it . . that it be kept in due repair . so it must be , in this great businesse , whereof we now speak . . a strong foundation of hope must be well laid . . our hope must be strongly built upon it . . we must be careful that our hope be continually kept in due repair . of these three we shall speak distinctly , and shall endeavour to shew how they are to be done . . for the first , god himself , as he makes himself and his will known unto us , by his written word , is the onely suitable object , and strong foundation , or ground-work of this hope . therefore the church , in my text , saith , i will hope in him . for in him alone are the properties of that object , on which true hope must rely . a man can be in no condition , wherein he needs help , but there is in god power and will to supply it unto him . if comfort be wanting , he is the god of all comfort , cor. . . he can and will create comforts , for his people , out of nothing ; yea , out of the contrary : as he caused at first , light to shine out of darknesse , cor. . . those troubles , temptations , and persecutions , and afflictions , which threaten destruction , become means of our salvation , by his over-ruling providence , who is wonderful in counsel , and excellent in working , isa . . ult . in this object , two principles are to be looked at . . a principle of being . . a principle of knowing . . the principle of being , is god himself , concerning whom , five particulars must be believed , that our hope may be objeccated upon him . . that god in whom we hope , is an eternal , independant being or essence , who giveth being , and order of being , and power of working unto all things . . that in the being or essence of god are three subsistences or persons : god , in the first person , the father ( with the son and holy spirit ) decreed the salvation of the elect , and all things tending thereunto . god , in the second person , the son , hath fully and exactly answered that decree , as our surety , in the work of redemption . god , in the third person , the holy spirit , effectually reveales and applies the love of the father , and the grace of the son unto the elect , in time , and fits them for communion with the father and the son , from both whom he proceeds . . that christ , the mediator , is immanuel , in whom god was reconciling the world unto himself , cor. . . who united the two natures of god and man , in his person , and was thereby fit to bring god and man together , having made man amiable to god , and god amiable to man , who were enemies before , by the sin of man. . that god , in christ , is fatherly towards believers , in all his attributes , whereby he is described , in exod. . , . and other texts of scripture , all which are in god essential ; and therefore eternal , and infinite . . that god acteth all these his excellencies , by his fatherly providence , governing and ordering all things for the good of his people , so powerfully , that satan and his instruments , in seeking to crosse his revealed will , shall and do fulfil his secret will , to their own confusion . this providence extends as far as the creation , all things , even the most casual , and most disordered things , sins , and the most free actings of men are ordered by it , so that god doth sometimes great things by weak means , disabling more likely means , eccles . . . sometimes without means , and sometimes crossing the course of means . and , when evil is intended , god either wholly averts it , or limits and bounds it , in regard of measure , psal . . . . or of continuance , psal . . . hereby also he causeth and ordereth a cessation of actions , that some shall not favour us , and others shall want wisdom and ability to help us , from gods with-drawing his concurrence , who hath sufficient reason , as well , not to do what he doth not , as to do what he doth . the right knowledge of god in his being , is necessary to the well-laying the ground-work of this hope , as conducing unto the preparatory purposes and uses . . to silence all disputes and murmurrings : this made aaron hold his peace , lev. . , . and david not to open his mouth , psal . . . . to cause the soul to resigne up a mans self to the will of god , who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will , eph. . . so it wrought in ely , sam. . . in david , sam. . . and in the saints , acts . . . to quicken us to inure our selves to do gods will , that we may be fit to suffer it . for passive obedience springs from active . then are mens wills in right order , when , as god is the highest , so his will hath the highest place in our hearts ; when they are willing to do what god commands , to suffer what god inflicts , and to be at gods dispose , when this stayeth our hearts , in all events , that they are in covenant with him , who sits at the stern , and hath committed all power to our redeemer , who hath our names in his brest-plate , and on his shoulders . the second principle to be looked at in god , that our hope may be well built on him , is a principle of knowing . this principle is the written word , whereby god makes himself and his will known unto us , without which we have no good ground or warrant to build our hope upon god. but , that his people may thus hope in him with strong encouragement , he gives us his word , that thereby we may know his good thoughts , and purposes towards us , which is a sufficient ground of hope , it being the word of him that cannot lie ; and not onely his bare word , but a binding word , his promises , which are free expressions of his love , with engagement of it unto us ; nor onely promises , but his covenant , founded upon a full satisfaction made to his justice , by our redeemer , as the head of the covenant ; and thereunto hath added his oath , hob. . . and seals , both outward , rom. . . and inward , eph. . . and all this he hath done , that our hope might be built upon a strong foundation , that believers might be supported in all tempests , isa . . . , . . having such a strong foundation well laid , our next duty is , to build strongly upon it . which that you may do , attend to these directions . . see that you trust and hope in god by light and strength received from himself . . by divine light , not by meer humane reasons . for none can so know god , in his truth , and goodnesse , as to trust and hope in him , but by his own light revealing himself to the soul , by his word and spirit ; as none can see the sun , but by its own light , psal . . . . the divine power must accompany this light . for , neither education , nor examples of others , nor our own resolutions , can settle our hearts upon god , till we find an inward power and authority causing divine truths to shine into our hearts , and subduing all our reasonings and thoughts unto the obedience of faith ; onely that soul , which hath found the efficacy of the spirit , by the word , in casting it down , and raising it up , and renewing it , can hope in god aright for things of god ; them , and not before , a man chooseth god for his portion , and cleaveth to him , as his chief good ; then , and not before , the sweetnesse of gods love is ▪ let into the soul , and rellished by it , which draweth the whole soul to trust and hope in him , psal . . . . suit the promises to your several conditions . for what ever condition of life any believer is or can be in , he hath promises in the word suitable to it ; whether present , or possible . . at present , what ever difficulties or impossibilities , as to second causes , and means appear to sense , or reason , faith lifteth up the soul above them all , to look unto the promises and power of god , and thereby quickneth and strengthenth our hope in him , rom. . , , . heb. . . . possible , the saints have found great help to their faith and hope , by putting cases , and answering their own hearts therein from gods all-sufficiencies . so david , though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death , i will fear none evil ; for thou art with me , psal . . . again , though an host should encampe against me , my heart should not fear , psal . . . again , god is our refuge and strength , a very present help in trouble ; therefore we will not fear , though the earth be removed , and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea , though the waters thereof roar , psal . . , , . paul excellently puts other cases , of an higher nature than these , and triumphs over them all , in the unchangeablenesse of gods love to believers in christ , rom. . , . . when your hope is quickened , by the promises , look unto god with a single eye , trusting and hoping in him alone . to trust upon two props , of which one is sound , the other rotten , is the ready way to fall . make use of all helps , which god gives you , but hope in him alone . for hoping in god is a part of that natural worship of god , injoyned in the first commandement , which belongs to god alone , mat. . . and thus to have our eyes towards god alone is the proper effect of true conversion , isa . . , . . see that the dispositions of your spirits be answerable to the relations you have to god , when he becomes your portion , and the object of your hope . he hath , . the relation of a faithful creator , and the disposition in you that must suit that , is , to commit your souls to him in well-doing , pet. . . in the want of means . . the relation of a father , and the disposition in you that suits thereunto , is , to cast your care upon him , believing that he careth for you , pet. . . mat. . . . the relation of an husband , the disposition that suits that , is foederal faithfulnesse , hos . . , . cor. . , . . the relation of a guid and teacher , the disposition suitable to that is , to yield up your selves in all things to be guided by his counsel , as asaph did , psal . . . . the relations of your judge , law-giver , and king , isa . . . the disposition which answers those relations , is obedience to gods commands , and walking in his wayes . else , you do not trust in him , but tempt him , mat. . . you may expect god , in his wayes of mercy , when you keep in your way of obedience . then you may , with comfort , expect what ever good those relations can yield , from the all-sufficient god , who regarding more our weaknesse then his own greatnnesse , condiscendeth so low as to take upon himself such relations , for the strengthening our hope in him . . often call to mind former experiences , both of your selves , and others . experience worketh hope , rom. . . . of others , psal . . . and thence infer , as david did , thou lord hast not forsaken them that trust in thee , psal . . . . of your selves , cor. . , . tim. . , . christians should be ready to communicate their own experiences to others , as david did in psal . . . thus the word will be as silver seven times tryed , ps . . . . rest not in your hoping in god , as it is an act done , or a grace exercised by you . for hoping is but the act of a creature , and the gift of hope it self is but a created gift , and to hope in any creature , is to make that creature an idol . but to depend upon god to quicken and strengthen your hope in himself alone , who is called , the hope of israel , jer. . . and by his help , through the promise , to trust and hope in him the promiser , who gives promises , and can create performances ( so that , if you close with the promise , as good , you may close with the promiser , as better , who both speaks what he means , and will perform what he speaks ; ) this is the way to build your hope strongly upon god. . that you may keep this hope in repair : . see that your hoping in god be a continued act , frequently renewed upon every new occasion , not onely in adversity , but also in prosperity , as well in injoyments as in wants . for we have use of hoping in god for the continuance of the good we have , and for his blessing to be continued to us in it . . observe what breaches are made in your hope , from day to day ; whether from within , by corruptions , or from without by temptations ? you will find that the main breaches are either from false principles , or from doubts of true principles , or from inadvertency , and mindlessenesse of them . thence the soul is as sheep that are driven from mountain to hill , and have forgotten their resting place , jer. . . . having found out the impediments of your hoping in god , stir up your selves as david did , saying , return unto thy rest , o my soul , psal . . . by stirring up this gift of god in you , tim. . . to this end , . see that your judgment be right . . beware of those things that are opposite to this hope , and cast them off , heb. . , . where every thing that bows the soul downward is compared to a weight ; and loose affections , and false reasonings , are compared to a long loose garment , which easily besets the feet , and will hinder a runner in a race , if it be not laid aside , or girt up . . speak to your own heart , as you would speak to another , in a like case . . joyn prayer with your use of other means , rom. . . . according to gods order of promising , do you proceed to quicken and strengthen your faith and hope in him . . he promiseth that he will be your god , so let your faith look at him , in christ , and let your hope expect that he will be so to you , for the future , and for ever , psal . . ult . . he promiseth that he will forgive all sins unto repentant believers . therefore renew your repentance and faith in the blood of christ daily , and then hope in him , and pray that he will make you to hear joy and gladnesse , and restore to you the joy of his salvation , as david did , ps . . , . . he hath promised that he will sanctifie , and heal his people . therefore hope in him , and pray to him for it , as david did , in ps . . ult . . he hath promised that he will give that inheritance in heaven unto all that are sanctified by faith in christ . therefore wait for it in hope , rom. . , . and let that hope comfort and strengthen your hearrs in all the sufferings of this life , cor. . , , . . he hath promised that he will give all things needful for this life , till we come thither , psal . . . therefore hope in him for daily bread , and for all things you need . for as the same love of god moved him to save his elect for ever , and to provide for them in this world , till they be put into possession of that salvation ; so the same hope relyeth upon god , both for heaven hereafter , and for all necessary supplies , till we come thither . thus we have endeavoured to instruct you , in this first point , how to bring the act and object , god and this hope , together , that you may hope in him , which , you see , is a matter of great importance , and necessary to be understood practically , that we may hope in god aright . the second instruction is , to teach men how to try whether their hoping in god , which they pretend , is right , or not . the danger is very great , if you be deceived herein , yet many are deceived , through want of light to discern the difference between the natural affection of hope and this spiritual gift of hope in god. this divine hope , whereof we now speak , may be known by characters . . by the ground of it . . by the formal act of it . . by the proper effect of it . . by the ground of it . if it be rightly grounded , it is the right hope . the ground of this hope is faith , heb. . . which hath a double object . . god in christ . . the word of god. that you may try and examine your hope , whether it be thus grounded or not ; we shall insist some-what more largely in this , and be more brief in the two following characters , which will be more easily apprehended , after this is cleared . . hope is rightly grounded , when it is grounded or bottomed upon faith , receiving christ , and applying to our selves , in him , god as our god , and portion , in the covenant of grace . it is the office and work of faith , to appropriate god in christ , to a mans self . the voice of christ unto believers , is , my father is your father , and my god your god , joh. . . and the voice of faith , in a believer , to christ , is , my lord and my god , ver . , . god absolutely considered , out of christ , is an object of the greatest terrour unto sinners , isa . . . but god , relatively considered , in christ , as our god and portion , is the chiefest object of our hope , and love . faith cleaveth unto god , as our god and portion . and , when we know that god is our portion , and thereupon hope in him , then our hoping in god is right , because it is rightly grounded . our having god for our portion , begins at our entring into covenant with him . for then , and not before , we have a propriety in god , and he in us , ezek. . . this propriety in god is given and manifested to us , by degrees . . the soul is convinced of the vanity and insufficiency of all other things to be our portion , and so is made willing to forsake them all , that it may injoy god , as his portion . till this be done , men observe lying vanities , and forsake their own mercy , jon. . , . . the soul is convinced that god is the god of some , by a peculiar right , psal . . . these he accounts the onely happy men in the world , psal . . ult . . hence arise fervent desires that god would be so to him , in particular . remember me , o lord , with the favour of thy people , psal . . . . the soul is quickened , by the spirit of faith , to turn unto the lord with true repentance , and to put it self upon gods mercy in christ , and to wait upon him for the discovery of his love to him , joel . , . . god , having thus far brought the soul towards himself , doth , in his own time , manifest to us that he is our god , whence the soul actually closeth with him , by faith , in christ , as our portion , hos . . . psal . . . . hereupon we come to hope in him , for what ever good we need , and he hath promised , psal . . . and as faith groweth more towards full assurance , so hope groweth more strong in spiritual security , and courage , and glorying in god , psal . . ult . yet , in the darkest times , faith inables the soul , from its former taste of gods goodnesse , to claim an interest in him still . doubtlesse , thou art our father , &c. isa . . . with an expectation of future good from him , psal . . . yea , when experience and sense failes , by reason of our inadvertency , yet so much vertue of former sense remains , as inables the soul , even when it is in darknesse , and seeth no light , to trust in the name of the lord , and stay it self upon his god , isa . . . and to wait upon the lord , even when he hideth his face from us , and to look for him , isa . . . but , if any desire to know how they may clearly discern that their hope is grounded on faith in god , as their god and portion in christ ; i answer , you may know it by gods influence in a believing soul , whereby this hope is quickned and strengthened . for , when god becomes any ones portion , he becomes a fountain of blessings to that person , god , our own god shall blesse us , psal . . . he is a sun and a shield , the lord will give grace and glory , no good thing will he withhold from them , psal . . . especially , of spiritual blessings , which the apostles , in their salutations , comprehend in two things , grace . and peace . god as our god , in christ , is the god of both to his people . he is the god of all grace , pet. . . and the god of peace , heb. . . that is , he influenceth believers with all those graces , which breed peace and quietnesse in their souls , supporting them under all burthens of temptations , troubles , wants , imperfections , till they come to enjoy perfect rest in god himself , and fitting them , in the mean time , more and more , for all that good , which they want , in themselves , and he hath prepared for them , in christ . for , . god , as our portion , is the god of love ; yea , love it self , joh. . . and a tast of his love is better than wine , cant. . . so full of spirit that it will revive a drooping , sinking , dying soul , and quicken all graces in it , and make any condition comfortable , any affliction tollerable , and strengthen it to wait for more full communion with god , in the use of the most difficult means , as jacobs love to rachel , inabled him to wait for her seven years , in an hard service , and they seemed to him but as a few dayes , gen. . . . god , as our portion in christ , is the god of hope , rom. . . whereby , as by an anchor , he stayeth and sixeth the soul upon himself : as a ship at anchor , though it may be moved , and tossed , yet it is not removed from its place and station ; so , if you find that your soul cleaveth to god , in christ , and will not be driven from him , whatever troubles , or temptations befal you ; your hope in him is right . this asaph found , in psal . . ult . . god , as our god and portion , is the god of patience , rom. . . whereby believers resigne up themselves to his dispose , humbly submitting their wils to his . if you find it so ; your hope is right . david found it so , sam. . . . god , as our portion , is the father of spirits , heb. . . which he so governs , and meekens , that , though we be sensible of afflictions , he keeps our spirits from discontentment and murmurring , in a quiet frame . hereby also you may know that your hope is right . the church found it so , in mich. . . . god , as our portion , is god all-sufficient , gen. . . whence he gives us contenment , in all estates , tim , . . if you find it so , your hope is right . paul found it so , phil. . , . . god , as our portion , is the god of all comfort , cor. . . who , by letting the light of his countenance into the soul , maketh it light-some . this joy strenthens the soul , neh. . . against inordinate fears of wants , psal . . . or of dangers , ver . . and under sense of afflictions , rom. . , . and oppositions , mich. . . and temptations , cor. . , . and in all events , rom. . , . not , that every believer attains to such high actings of faith and and hope ; yet , if it prevail to cause them to trust in him , and stay themselves upon him , in the dark , it is a right hope , isa . . . . hope is rightly grounded , when it is bottomed upon the word and promises of god believed in . in the first conversion , when the soul had nothing , but the bare promise of free mercy in christ , to look at , god did thereby cause us to trust and hope in him , psal . . . without former experiences . in like manner , he worketh in believers , in dark times , when they cannot recal former experiences , and want present sense of gods love , god quickeneth his people , by quickening their in-looking to the naked promise , psal . . . and thereby their hope also , isa . . . hence jacob became such a mighty wrastler with god , gen. . with hos . . . god is ever mindful of his covenant , psal . . . and faithful in his promises . thess . . . hope looks at the good of the promise , and the goodnesse of the promiser , for that part of the promise , which is not yet performed , as faith looks at the truth of the promise , and faithfulnesse of the promiser . now , that hope thus grounded , is a right hope , may be proved ; because , when faith in the promises quickeneth and strengtheneth hope in believers , then gods ends are attained , for which he giveth promises . his ends are these , and the like : . to make known unto his people his good thoughts and purposes concerning them , jer. . . this he doth , to incourage them to hope for a good end , and to endeavour , in the use of good means , to attain it , ver . , . . to draw the elect unto christ , in whom all gods promises are yea , and amen , cor. . . . to shew what credit god hath in the hearts of his people , joh. . . joh. . . . . to let believers see that they are richer , in their lowest estate , than others are in their greatest worldly possession . for they have god himself , for their portion , when others have but his gifts , psal . . . they have christ , and unsearchable riches , in him , eph. . . who became poor , that , by his poverty , we might be made rich , cor. . . they have spiritual riches , rev. . . they are rich in faith , iam. . . whereas others have onely their bellies filled , psal . . . believers have a large estate in promises , tim. . . which are gods bills , and bonds , and deeds of gift , for a great while to come , sam. . . they have much in possession , and much more in hope , pet. . . so that , when we hope in his word , god attaineth his end in giving his word . therefore hope grounded on the word , is a right hope . . by the formal act of hope , you may try , whether it is right or not . expectation is the formal act of hope . this expectation hath three properties : . it 's earnest , phil. . . . it 's patient , rom. . . patient , . of labouring . . of suffering . . of waiting . because between hoping and having , there is a want of the thing desired and promised , till gods time , for performing comes . this delay is troublesome , prov. . . therefore we have need of patience , heb. . . the husband-man soweth in hope , and waits with patience for the precious fruits of the earth , iam. . . which the apostle there applies to believers . . with continuance iob . . such waiting on god gives him the glory of his independency , all-sufficiency , immutability , goodnesse , faithfulnesse , and wisdom , it hath great blessings , annexed to it , prov. . , . isa . . . isa . . . the contrary is a compound of many sins , of pride , and impatience , psal . . . and and discontent , kings . . and unbeliefe , isa . . . . by the proper effect of this hope , you may know , it to be right ; love floweth from faith and hope , cor. . ult . especially , to god , in christ , in whom we hope . hence he that hath this hope , purgeth himself , as christ is pure , ioh. . . and is diligent in using all gods means , with avoiding the contrary , heb. . . to . with dependance on god , and trusting in him alone , not in our abilities , sam. . . prov. . , , or graces , which gave peter two fals , nor in our performances , psal . . , . nor in the means themselves , hest . . , . thus you see what are the characters of hoping in god aright : if upon tryal , you find them to be in you , in truth ; that hope will not make you ashamed , but you shall have cause to say , with the church , in isa . . . lo , this is our god , we have waited for him , and he will save us , &c. the third instruction is , how to exercise hope in god aright , in sundry cases , wherein you are called to practise it . these cases are of two sorts . . such as concern mens private conditions . . such as concern the publike . the first sort of cases , which concern the private conditions of believers , are either for the present , or for the time past , or for the time to come . we shall shew how this hope is to be excercised , in these concernments , severally , and distinctly , with gods assistance . . for the time present , when believers are under excessive grief , whatever is the cause of it ; whether sin or affliction , in your persons , or relations . believers , as well as others , are subject to many afflictions , in this life , psal . . . many are the afflictions of the righteous , and , not of some one kind onely , but of divers kinds . job saith of every one , his flesh upon him shall have pain , and his soul within him shall mourn , iob . ult . herein two things are to be cleared . . that it is our duty to grieve under affliction , proportionately to the cause . it is dedolency , stupidity , not to grieve for afflictions , jer. . . it is therefore our duty to grieve , when god afflicteth us , but more for gods displeasure apprehended therein . . it is our duty to grieve more for sin then for affliction . . more for sin in our selves than in others , and . for sin in our near relations more than in others more remote ; yet it is unlawful to let grief exceed the proportion allowed by the rules of gods word , as all do , who have not this hope , thess . . . the spirit of man is , by corrupt nature , unstable , as water , gen. . . alwayes running forth , unlesse ( as water is bounded by the bank or vessel , into which it is put , so ) our spirits be bounded , and kept within compasse , by the spirit of god. vvould you know , when grief exceeds , or is immoderate ? you may know it by the effects . . if it distempers and hurts the body . godly sorrow , as such , hurts no man , it is healing to the soul , and not hurtful to the body , unlesse , by accident , the body being before under painful distemper , which is apt to be increased by any grief . worldly sorrow causeth death , cor. . . vvorldly sorrow is , not onely , that which is for worldly things , but also that which is for sin , upon worldly respects , as the principal motives of it . and that sorrow hurts the body , and doth no good to the soul , as david found , when guile prevailed in his spirit , psal . . , , . . if it hinders you from , or in , the performance of any duty . . from it . the good ●hief , on the crosse , was in great grief ; yet that did not hinder him from honouring christ , nor from minding his own salvation , nor from rebuking his fellow , luke . . to . nor did christs sorrow on the crosse , which was far greater than that thiefs , take him off from minding the future good of his mother , joh. . . . in duty . it turned davids praying , wherein he should have exercised repentance , out of love unto god , into roaring , out of inordinate self - love , psal . . . and it hindred the israelites , in hearing moses , when he spake most comfortably to them , from receiving comfort thereby , exod. . . it is with the soul , in this case , as it is with the body . vvhen physick works upon the right humour , it carries away that which distempers , without hurting the body . but , if it onely exasperates the distemper , and removes not the cause ; it doth hurt . . if your minds are so fixed upon a particular grievance that you cannot be duly thankful for other mercies , nor take comfort in them ; like froward children , that , being crossed in one thing , throw away all the rest . for this joab justly blamed david , though he erred in the manner , because he wept excessively for the death of absalom , and did not rejoyce in the victory , and give thanks to god for it , sam. . . to . ● . if it inclines the will to seek ease and comfort , in some un-warrantable , and unsafe way . this is called halting , whereby men are turned out of the way , heb. . , . . if the soul sinks , and faints under it , is wholly subdued by it , so as it cannot bear up it self . this is one of the extreams which wisdom forbids all her children to fall into , and which to forget is a sin , heb. . . now the exercise of a right hoping in god , is of necessary use , in this case , to moderate sorrow , and to keep it within due bounds . this it doth , especially two wayes . . by striking at the root , and weakning the causes of it . . if it be for outward losses and crosses , hoping in god raiseth up the soul by looking up to god , and seeing that they are , either from him , as our god in covenant . thus it raised up iob , iob . . and david , sam. . . or that they are for god , and for their witnesse-bearing to his truth . this inabled the saints of old , to take joyfully the spoiling of their goods , knowing in themselves that they had in heaven a better , and an enduring substance , heb. . . . if it be from losse of dear relations , and gods displeasure apprehended therein ; this hope will quicken in you godly sorrow , and endeavours to seek reconciliation and peace with god , by repentance and faith in christ , hos . . . . it will purge out inordinate affections to the creatures , ioh. . . over-grieving for the losse of creature-comforts ariseth from over-joying in creature-contentments . . if it be from bodily weaknesse , or sicknesse , or pain , or any distemper , that renders a man unserviceable in his place ; this hope , being rightly exercised , w●ll moderate that sorrow . . by bringing a spiritual light into the soul , to prepare it to receive comfort . for the body is compared to an house , and to a garment . hence they can argue , à pari , the more worn and tattered the garment is , the sooner we shall have a new one . so it is with the soul cor. . , , . and the more crazy and weak the house , or rather , the prison is , the nearer the prisoner is to be delivered from it . so it is with the soul imprisoned in this earthly house of the body , cor. . . &c. . by quickning us unto those duties which such a condition cals for , viz. patience , passive obedience , quitnesse , contentednesse , prayer , &c. psal . . , . . if it be from sin , in our selves , or others , or in our families and near relations ; this hope will be of necessary use to keep the soul from being swallowed up with over-much sorrow . he that grieves for sin , must grieve in hope . for a vexing , discouraging , despairing grief will do no good , but much hurt , as you may see , in ier. . . and ezek. . , . but that sorrow for sin which is accompanied with hope of mercy , quickneth to prayer of faith , iob . . and to reformation , ezra . , . if it be from an apprehension that god is your enemy , and fighteth against you , as he is and doth sometimes , isa . . . this hope is of necessary use ; whether your apprehension be right , or wrong . if it be so indeed , it will quicken you to make all speed to be reconciled unto god , in christ . hereunto this hope encourageth : . from the mercy and grace of god in forgiving repenting sinners , psal . . . . from his willingnesse to deal so with you , declared sundry wayes . . by sending his son to make attonement for lost sinners . . by sending his embassadours to beseech you to be reconciled unto him , cor. . , . . by his never refusing rebels , that sought his favour in christ , upon gospel terms . . by his commanding us to forgive such as repent , though they have sinned against us unto seventy times seven times ; and himself will not be behind us in mercy and kindnesse . . but if it be not so indeed ; if god be not our enemy ; this hope will awe the soul from wronging god , by our mis-apprehensions . it is an injury to a man , that is our friend , and hath approved himself so to be , by many kindnesses , if we should charge him with enmity , and say to him , you do not love me , you hate me , you are mine enemy , when you cannot prove it . hoping in god will arme the soul against such conclusions , by former experiences of sundry effects of gods favour towards you , in pardoning some sins , subduing some lusts , healing some distempers , scattering some temptations , working some spiritual good in you ; as , faith in the lord jesus , and love to all the saints , granting some prayers . say not , i know not , whether god hath done thus , in mercy and favour toward me , and whether he will continue them unto me , or not ; for these are covenant mercies ; and therefore sure mercies , even the sure mercies of david , isa . . . every answer of prayer , every gift of grace , that makes the more prayerful , humble , watchful , thankful , serviceable ▪ to god and man , that leads the soul to god , in christ , is from his fatherly goodnesse and love to thee in christ . say not , if god were my father , i should see his face , but he hides his face from me ; for that doth not alwayes follow . sometimes children are infants , and know not their father , though he acts for them , as a father . sometimes grown children see not their father , many years together , yet rest in his fatherly love and care for them . so god will have his stronger children , many times , to walk by faith and not by light , cor. . . sometimes the child , being forth at school , or at prentiship , desireth earnestly to come home and see his father , but the father sees it to be in ●●●dient , at that time , to grant his request . but he will send him a letter , a 〈◊〉 , a messenger , or some friend to visit him , he shall see him , in them , not in his person . so god deals , many times , with his children , who desire to see his face , to have sensi●le demonstrations of his favour and love to them . they shall see him , in his letters the scriptures , and the promises , or in some token of his love , some strength in their souls ▪ psal . . . or , in some messenger , job . . whom he sends to comfort them , and his spirit to quicken and strengthen them to wait upon him . object . but where the spirit is , there are the fruits of the spirit , and , among the rest , joy , gal. . . which i want . answ . . take a believer , at the worst , he hath that joy which he would not part with , in exchange , for the jocondnesse of worldly men . . he hath true joy , through faith , even when he is in heavinesse , for a time , pet. . . he hath it , in the root , when it doth not sprout forth in leaves , because it is winter with him . he who desires spiritual joy , and grives for the want of it , hath true joy , in some degree ; as that man , from faith , bewailed his unbelief , mark . . the second way , whereby this hope boundeth and moderateth sorrow , is , by strengthening the soul to stick to right g●ounds of true comfort , to maintain their joy in god , through our lord jesus christ , as their portion , not yielding up their purse to every thief , nor suffering themselves to be wrangled out of their right in it . if excessive sorrow begins to seize upon the soul of a believer ; this hope will . quicken him to examine its commission , by parlying with his soul , and enquiring whether there be good reason , a sufficient cause , for it , or not , as david did , in psal . . . . and . . why art thou cast down , o my soul , &c. for sometimes your sorrow is causelesse , and groundlesse , and commonly it is so : . when it is boundlesse . for reason will set bounds unto grief , but mistakes , and mis-apprehensions , know no bounds . . when it is plea-lesse , being tried at the bar of right reason , or of the judgment of those who are godly-wise . job in a passion , challenged god himself to dispute , and gives him his choise , whether he will oppose , or answer , he will be for him , and fill his mouth with arguments , and doubts not that he shall carry the cause . but , when god appeared , and spake to him , jobs passion vanished , and his courage failed , and he confessed that he had spoken foolishly , and would now lay his hand upon his mouth . compare job . , , . with chap. . , . and ch. . , , , , . so sometimes a dejected discouraged christian thinks he hath so much to say against his comfort , as will put to silence the best and ablest ministers . but when any judicious minister , or experienced christian , comes to him , he hath either nothing to say , or nothing of weight , but what is full of errour and mistakes . say therefore to your felves , in this case , as god did to ionah , doest thou well to be angry ? do i well to be thus dejected ? . if there be cause for sorrow : . examine , whether it be sufficient to justifie such a measure or degree of sorrow , or not . that sorrow , which drives the soul from god , which indisposeth it to prayer , thanks-giving , to the duties of his calling , to works of mercy and love , that makes him lumpish , harsh , passionate , that sowres and distempers his spirit , is excessive and immoderate . . examine from what topicks the arguments are fetched , that are used to justifie such a degree of sorrow . the soul of man should not be subjected to sense and feeling , or to any way of reasoning , but that which is from and according to the word of god. to argue , that you have no faith , because you are full of doubting , that you have no grace , because you have strong corruptions , is to offend against the generation of gods children , psal . . . the vanity whereof asaph saw , when he went into the sanctuary of god. so will you , if you consult the scriptures . . fly to the god of all comfort , cor. . . first issue that great question , am i gods child , or not ? if not ; rest not in that state , but hasten out of it . if yea , and thou art so , if thou hast his image ; then set faith on work : . upon gods all - sufficiency , and fetch all from heaven , which thou wantest on earth . . upon his efficiency : . recal to mind what he hath done for thee in times past , as asaph did , in psal . . , . . for the future ; rest on his bare word , and promise , which shewes what he will do . account that to be thine , which thou hast in grant by the promise , as david did , psal . . . god hath spoken in his holinesse , i will rejoice , &c. gilead is mine , &c. thus apply what christ saith , in mat. . , . . and the scripture every where . . for the present ; consider what god doth for thee . doth he support thee , that thou sinkest not under despair ? doth he keep thee in patience , and submission to his will by 〈◊〉 ? doth he quicken thee to use all good means , with waiting upon him ? give him the glory of his grace , and be encouraged to spread before him , in prayer , all thy doubts , thy fea●s , thy temptations , and wants , phil ▪ . . and , with prayer , joyn hoping in him , and waiting on him . say , ●here is mercy in him , to pity ; and power in him , to help ; though i find no comfort , yet , i hope , i shall ; though my prayers be not yet answered ; i hope they will be , in the best season , and i will wait on god , till he doth answer them . if yet comfort come not ; improve the communion of saints , and the publick ordinances , as david , i will hearken what at god the lord will speak , psal . . . use men and means , but let your hope be fixed upon god onely , look to him for comfort , who creates the fruits of the lips , peace , isa . . . use the communion of the saints , in private also ; but so , as waiting for his manifesting himself to your soul , as the church found he did , in cant. . . and . . and , if thou canst not find out what particular hinders thy comfort , do as men use to do for their bodies , when the distemper is general , who make an issue , to draw the matter to some head ; pitch upon some particular sin , to which thou art most subject , by natural inclination , or by thy calling , or company , or the condition of the times , and let out the corruption that may . begin repentance there , and joyn with it faith in the blood of christ , and so seek reconciliation with god , and comfort thereby . in thus doing , wait on god , till he satisfie thy thirsty soul , who hath promised , that they , who wait on the lord , shall renew their strength ; they shall mount up upon wings , as eagles ; they shall run , and not be weary , and they shall walk , and not faint , isa . . . the second case , whereon believers are called to exercise this hope , in their personal concernments , is , in reference to the time past , the seeming frustration and disappointment of their former expectations . for , having prayed and waited for the good desired , yet they have not o●tained it . and many , when they have given up their names unto christ , looked for peace , prosperity , and good dayes , but find troubles , crosses and afflictions of sundry kinds ; this much disquieteth , and sometimes discourageth their spirits . hence , they are apt to complain , with the church , in jer. . . we looked for peace , but no good came , and for a time of health , and behold trouble ; and , to conclude , as they did , in isa . . . zion said , the lord hath forsaken me , and my lord hath forgotten me . in this case , that may be made for a right exercise of hoping in god , i shall distinguish the subjects of it . . there are some , whom god forsakes really . . such as forsake god. if ye forsake him , he will forsake you , chron. . . this is the condition of all apostates , that depart from the rules of gods worship , and the churches of the saints , embracing and following worldly policies and advantages . . such as seem to seek god , but rest in outward performances without inward sincerity and spiritualnesse , and trust in their parts and gifts , and duties , not in christ , for acceptance with god. this is the condition of all hypocrites , who sin and pray , and pray and sin , without true repentance , yet think to be accepted of god for the things they do in religion outwardly , of such the lord saith , in hos . . . they shall go with their flock●● and with their heards to seek the lord ; but they shall not find him ▪ he hath with-drawn himself from them . . such as abuse the mercies they have received , and yet presume that mercies shall be still continued and added , though they go on in their impenitency . this is the condition of all obstinate , hard-hearted sinners . these may receive their doom from that which the lord denounced against israel , in hos . . . call her name lo-ruhamah ; for i will not adde any more to shew mercy to them . as if 〈◊〉 had said , they have received many mercies from me , but they abuse the● all , and presume that they shall receive more mercies from me : but 〈◊〉 shall not be so . i will not adde any more . of all these and the like , the apostle saith , they are without christ ▪ without god , and without hope , eph. . . therefore i have no more to say to them , in this point . . there are others , whom god doth not forsake , really , but onely seemingly , and that , but in some respect , and , but for a time . and that he is present with them graciously , when they think he hath forsaken them , appeareth by his efficacy in them . . that he quickens them to seek him in the use of all means , psal . . . for thou , lord , hast not forsaken them that seek thee . . that they seek him , as their portion , as their chief good , without injoyment of whom nothing will satisfie them . this is from the efficacy of his grace in them , as it was in the spouse , cant. . , , , , . . that gods with-drawing from them , in any degree , makes them fearful of his forsaking them utterly , and , for prevention thereof , careful to engage themselves to obey him more perfectly . thus it wrought in david , psal . . . i will keep thy statutes , o forsake me not utterly ! these are the persons , who are called to exercise hope in god , in this case . to instruct them how to perform this great duty aright , i shall propound five directions . . direction . make it clear unto your own souls , that you have a good ground of hope . see that your faith in god is right . for this hope is the daughter of faith . and , if you are in the dark , as to present sight of your good estate ; consider whether formerly , when you had a clear light , you then knew that your soul said , the lord is my portion . for it may be , at sometimes , with a true believer , spiritually , as it was with eutychus , bodily , in acts . . that , though life is in him , yet he hath not the sense of it . then , though gods face is towards him , yet he complains that he hath long hid his face from him ; as david did , in psal . . . and , if his ministers speak comfortably to him ; it is with him as it was with the people of israel , when moses spake as comfortably unto them as at any time , but they hearkened not unto moses for anguish of heart , exod. . . and , when he remembers god , he is troubled , and complaineth , and his spirit is over-whelmed , as asaph found , in psal . . . in this case , faith it self must be helped , by reflecting upon former experience . this course asaph took , and found relief by it , ibid. ver . , . so a believer having called to mind form 〈◊〉 passages ▪ betweeen , god and his soul , when he made diligent search , and upon tryal of his estate toward god , by scripture light , found it to be good ▪ hath good ground to hope in god , that it is so still , and that it will so continue for ever , and that from the sure word of god in the scripture , which ass●●●s us tha● gods drawing us to himself , in christ , is from his everlasting love , ier. . . and that christ , having loved his own , which are in the world , loveth them unto the end , ioh. . . and that the gifts and callings of god are without repentance , rom. . . as a man , who hath deliberately cast up his accounts , and summed up the particulars exactly , when he took a fit season for it ; if afterward , when being sick , or in some hurry of businesse , he is not fit to review the particulars , he be demanded how the accounts stand , he will refer himself to the foot of his account , in a certain perswasion that it is right ; so a believer , being under temptations and seeming desertion , may , and should exercise this hoping in god , and hath good ground so to do , from what he formerly found , when he diligently searched into particulars , though now he cannot call them to mind . or , as a woman with child , having felt it stir in her womb , knowes thereby that she hath been quickened , and conceived , and hath thereby comforting hope that it will go on , though she doth not alwayes feel it stir : so 〈◊〉 is , in this case , and much rather , for that conception may die , and the woman may miscarry ; but so canno● the regenerate , being born again● not of corruptible seed , but of incorruptible , by the word of god , which liveth and abideth for ever , pet. . . . direction . when thus the ground of hope is cleared to be good , and way is made for the excercise of it ; then let it be exercised , in its purging work . this is the first use , wherein hope is to be improved , in this case . for , every man that hath this hope in him , purifieth himself , even as christ is pure , joh. . . else , that which now hindreth your comfort and peace , will hinder them , till it be taken away . sin is the great impediment of all our good . this therefore must be the first work of this hope , the purging away of sin . therefore the church in my text , took that course : saying , let us search and try our wayes , and turn again to the lord , ver . . do ye the like , in a like case , and , that you may do so , follow these directions . . pray the lord to shew wherefore he contendeth with you , iob . . with purpose of heart to forsake whatever sin provoketh him to anger . this was elihu's counsel to iob. surely , saith he , it is meet to be said unto god , i have born chastisement , i will not offend . that which i see not , teach thou me ; if i have done iniquity , i will do no more . iob . , . pray him also , to shew you what he would have you to do , as david prayed , in psal . . . teach me thy way , o lord , i will walk in thy truth ; unite my heart to fear thy name ! pray him , that as he sends afflictions , so he would supply grace , that you may profit by them . fo● he is the lord our god , the holy one of israel , our redeemer , that teacheth us to profit . isa . . . repenting ephraim found the benefit of this course . god took notice of them bemoaning themselves , with confession of their former unsubduednesse to gods will and yoak , and of their prayer , turn thou me , and i shall be turned , thou art the lord my god , jer. . . what benefit had ephraim hereby ? they tell that , in ver . . surely after i was turned , i repented and , after that i was instructed . i smote upon my thigh , &c. . having thus done , search the scripture , and your own hearts , to find out the particular sin , or sins , which have brought this affliction upon you , or which do hinder the exercising of your hope . . to find out the particular sin or sins , which have brought the affliction upon you ; consider , . for what sins god hath threatned , in his word , or inflicted upon others , such judgments as are upon you , ezek. . . jer. . , , . zeph. . , . . how you have abused those things wherein or wherby god afflicteth you . eli , and david were too indulgent to their children , and were punished in them and by them . israel abused the corn and wine , the wool and flax , the silver and gold that god had given them . therefore god took them away , hos . . , . god caused the land to keep the sabbaths , while the jews were in captivity , for their not sanctifying the sabbaths , in their own land . and for their lightly esteeming the word preached unto them , the lord brought a famine of the word upon them , amos . . there is now much sicknesse and mortality among us , did you not mis-spend your time , and strength , in the dayes of your health ? sundry are restrained from the publick ordinances ; is it not , because they have disregarded them , or been unfruitful and unprofitable under them ? . search , if you have not been faulty towards others , in the things you now suffer your selves . they that spoiled and dealt treacherously with others , shall be spoiled and dealt treacherously with themselves , isa . . he that leadeth into captivity , shall go into captivity ; he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword , rev. . . he shall have judgment without mercy that hath shewed no mercy , jam. . . do others wrong you , in your names , in your estates , in any of their dealings with you ? consider , how you have wronged others . are others helplesse and hard-hearted towards you , in your afflictions ? if upon search you find , that you have been so to others , give god the glory of his righteousnesse , saying , with adonibesek , as i have done , so hath god requited me , judg. . . . if you have not profited by afflictions formerly upon you ; you may justly suspect that he reneweth , and , it may be , increaseth your afflictions , for that cause . for so the lord threatned his people of old , if ye will not for all this ( viz. former lesser punishments inflicted on you ) hearken unto me , then will i punish you seven times more for your sins , lev. . . and the same he repeats again and again , four or five times , in that chapter . and he did accordingly , when the people of israel turned not unto him that smote them , the prophet told them , for all this , his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still , isa . . . and it is thrice repeated , in that chapter . so hath the lord dealt with us , in this place ; for sundry years past , he hath visited us with returns of sicknesses , every following year sharper than the former ; because whatever purposes men and women had , and whatever promises they made , when gods hand was upon them , all wore off and came to nothing , after he had released them : so that we , in this wildernesse , may be justly charged for dealing with god , as the people of israel did in the wildernesse , and have cause to expect , as they found from the most high , psal . . . to . in this case , god dealeth with his people , as physitians are wont to do with their patients , upon whom when they find that the physick formerly given doth not work , they second it with some stronger purge ; and , when they find that the disease is so setled , that quicker courses are not effectual ; they prescribe a course of longer continuance . . search , to find out your own special corruptions ; the sinnes of your nature , whereunto you are naturally , that is , by your natural constitutions , more addicted and inclined , then unto other ; the fins of your callings , that is , such as whereunto , by occasion of your place and vocation , or your course of life and conversation , you may have more and more frequent occasions of , and greater and stronger inducements , and inticements to , then others , and the sins of the times and places in which you live . this course david took , and thereby proved that he was upright before god , psal . . . . call to mind of what sins you have been formerly admonished and convinced , publikely , by the ministers of the word , or privately , by godly friends , and others ; or secretly , by the motions of gods spirit , and checks of your own consciences , but have not repented of them , nor turned from them . for it is gods manner , to open the ears of men , and to seal instructions by afflictions , as elihu told job , though he mis-applyed it to his case . iob . . to . . having found out the particular causes for which god contendeth with you ; add thereunto another search , to find out those sins which hinder the exercise of this hope more directly and immediately ; as , . your aptnesse to have hard thoughts of god. this is very injurious and dishonourable to god , and therefore he frequently in scripture expostulateth with and complaineth of his people for it : as you may see in ier. . . ezek. . , . mich. . , , . david found out this evil , in himself , and repented of it ; as you may see , in psal . . . and . , . . your aptnesse to be short spirited with god , which is contrary to the waiting of hope . this greatly incensed the wrath of god against his people of old , of whom it is said , in psal . . , . how often did they provoke him , in the wildernesse , and grieve him in the desart ? yea , they turned back , and tempted god , and limited the holy one of israel . so do all they , whose hoping in god ceaseth , if he do not grant them the particular thing which they expect , and in their time , and by their means . . your unwarranted expectations of good , without mixture of any evil ; of peace , without trouble ; of health , without sicknesse ; of ease , without pain ; of joy , without sorrow ; of prosperous successes , without crosses ; which god hath no where promised ; but hath fore-told the contrary every where in his word ; that he will visit our transgression with the rod , and our iniquities with stripes , psal . . . and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of god , acts . . and that whom the lord loveth he chasteneth , and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth , heb. . . and the reason why christ foretold these things , is , that , when they come to passe , we might not be offended , as himself saith , in ioh. . . and , that , when the time shall come , we may remember that he told us of them , as he saith , in ver . . . your aptnesse to be slight spirited and carelesse in retaining the favour of god , and in maintaining the workings of his spirit in you . the former , the church found in themselves and confessed , in isa . . . there is none that calleth upon thy name , that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee . for the later , the lord reproveth the church of ephesus , though he took notice of many good things in them , and done by them : neverthelesse , he tels them , that he hath this against them , that they had left their first love , rev. . , , . and commands them , remember therefore from whence thou art fallen , and repent , and do thy first works : else i will come unto thee quickly , &c. ver . . . be humbled for , and repent of your frustrating of gods expectations , as the great provocation of god to dis-appoint your expectations . consider , to this end , what god hath done for us , and therefore doth expect from us , in that which the lord said concerning the house of israel , in isa . . , . and let us fear lest our unfruitfulnesse , unprofitablenesse , and un-answerablenesse to the means and mercies received incense his wrath and jealousie against us more then against others , for whom he hath not done so much , as he hath done for us . for so he determined concerning israel ; you onely have i known of all the families of the earth ; therefore i will visit upon you all your iniquities , amos . . . having thus searched and tried your wayes ; the next duty is , to turn again to the lord , with unfeigned repentance , and faith in the blood of christ , and amendment of life . this was the fruit of davids considering his wayes , his turning his feet unto gods testimonies , psal . . . else you do but , as if a wounded man should cry to the chyrurgeon for ease of his pain , but will not endure to have the arrow head , or splinter , that sticks in his flesh , plucked out . if i regard iniquity in my heart , said david , the lord will not hear my prayers , psal . . . and the people of israel found that , when they did evil as they could , and cast off the thing that is good , and yet prayed unto god , as their god , he would not own them , nor accept their prayers , but upbraided them with their sins ; as you may see , in jer. . , . hos . . , . therefore the church in my text took a right course to strengthen their hope in god , when they resolved upon this order , first to search and try their wayes and turn again to the lord , and , after that , to lift up their hearts , with their hands unto god in the heavens , lam. . , . these things being done , that your hope may act aright . . the third direction , which is to be attended , that you may exercise this hope , is to use this hope aright in its second work , for encouragement , by your cherishing in your selves good thoughts of gods good purposes towards you , and expectation of good from god suitable to your needs : hereunto the lord encouraged the repenting jews , in their captivity in bayblon , jer. . . to . having promised them that , at the time appointed , he would visit them and perform his good towards them , in causing them to return , he acquainted them with his good thoughts towards them , as the reason of it , and what he would work in them , to fit them for that mercy ; saying , for i know the thoughts that i think towards you , saith the lord , thoughts of peace , and not of evil , to give you an expected end . then shall ye call upon me , and ye shall go , and pray unto me , and ye shall seek me , and find me , when ye shall search for me with all your hearts , &c. do not conclude concerning gods thoughts towards you , by present sense and feeling , but by his own word . therefore david resolved to hearken to what god the lord saith , not to what carnal reason and sense would say , and the reason of his so resolving is drawn from the expectation of his hope ; for he will speak peace unto his people , and to his saints , psal . . . and his expectation so grounded , was so strong , that he pleaded it with god , saying , in psal . . , . remember thy word unto thy servant , upon which thou hast caused me to hope . this is my comfort in my affliction , for thy word hath quickened me . and well may believers be strengthened in this hope , having it built upon so firm a foundation , as the word of god concerning which david saith , in the same psal . ver . , . for ever o lord , thy word is setled in heaven . thy saithfulnesse is unto all generations ; thou hast established the earth and it abideth . how is the earth established ? we see , if you cast the least stone upwards in the aire , it abideth not there , but soon fals down to the earth ; yet the earth it self , though it is an huge , vast , heavy body , abideth in the air , wherewith it is surrounded , and wherein it hangeth . how is this done ? it hath no pillars to hold it up , but the decree and word of that mighty god , who upholdeth all things by the word of his power , heb. . . his power accompanying his word upholdeth the earth in the middest of the air , and shall it not support our hearts , in the middest of all temptations ? if the greatnesse of your former sins , of which you have now repented , dismay you ; remember what the word of the lord saith , in isa . . . let the wicked forsake his way , and the unrighteous man his thoughts ; and let him return unto the lord , and he will have mercy upon him , and to our god , for he will multiply to pardon . say not , i cannot think that god can have any good purposes and thoughts toward such a sinful wretch and rebel , as i have been . for , to prevent this , the lord addeth , in ver . , . my thoughts are not your thoughts , neither are your waies my waies , saith the lord. for as the heavens are higher than the earth , so are my maies higher then your waies , and my thoughts then your thoughts . if the lord , in the time of your distresse , bring to your remembrance sins formerly , many years past , committed by you , but not repented of , look at it , as an instruction , which he joyneth with correction , to awaken you to repentance , as he did josephs brethren , when they were committed to prison , gen. . . but , if sins committed before your calling , or since , but repented of , be set before you ; do not think that they are unpardoned , or that the pardon is revoked , or that god doth it to upbraid you with them . god can , for holy and good ends , read over to his servants old bils of debt , which yet are cancelled , to humble them , and to make them more thankful , and more watchful . thus he made job possesse the sins of his youth , iob . . and if the lord defer the full and satisfying manifestation of his favour to you , after you have repented ; do not impute that dispensation to his not forgiving your sins , but to his fatherly wisdom and love , to excite you thereby to perfect your repentance unto the full mortifying of your sins . as david dealt with absalom , whom , though his heart was towards him , and , as a token thereof , he sent for him to return to ierusalem , yet he let him not see his face , for two years after his return , sam. . , . so the lord dealt with david , he pardoned his sin . sam. . . yet with-held joy and gladnesse from him , till he had more thorowly repented , and fervently prayed that he would restore to him the joy of his salvation , psal . . the fourth direction , is in reference to gods delayes ; if yet you find not the good you seek then , exercise your hope in its third work , which is , waiting upon god. hereunto the lord encouraged his people in captivity , by a vision , concerning their deliverance , which the prophet habbakuk received from god , and of which the lord said , the vision is yet for an appointed time , but at the end it shall speak , and not lie ; though it tarry , wait for it , because it will surely come , it will not tarry , hab : . . set down this for a concluded truth , which every true believer may rest upon , that , the lord will not cast off for ever , but , though he cause grief , yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies , lam. . , . and , that he may do so , he waiteth for a fit season . for he is a god of judgment , as isaiah saith , in isa . . . therefore will the lord wait , that he may be gracious unto you , and therefore will he be exalted , that he may have mercy upon you . for iehovah is a god of judgment . blessed are all they that wait for him . the lord waits for a time , wherein he shall be exalted in being gracious unto his people . that time is the time of their renewed repentance and conversion unto god , as to the most high. then god will have the highest place in their hearts . pray that this may be wrought in you , and that thereby you may be fitted for the good you hope for , and wait for it , till gods time comes . for all they are blessed that wait for him . they are now blessed in their state , and they shall be blessed in their injoymens . in the mean time , they that wait upon the lord , shall renew their strength ; they shall mount up with wings as eagles , they shall run , and not be weary ; they shall walk , and not faint . isa . . . the fifth direction is , in reference to afflictions continuing upon you ; while god delayes his bestowing the good you wait for ; exercise your hope in its fourth work , which is patience . wait with patience , for , if we hope for that we see not , then do we with patience wait for it , rom. . . it is christs precept , in your patience possesse your souls , luke . . as faith gives us the possession of christ , so patience gives us the possession , first , of our selves , and , then , of all good things . let patience have its perfect work , saith the apostle , iam. . . this it hath two wayes : . when it puts forth perfect acts , whereunto it ariseth by certain steps . the first is a silent submission , with a voluntary resignation of our selves to the will of god. so david did , and said , i opened not my mouth , because it was thy doing , psal . . . the second is , a thankful acceptation of the affliction , with , as it were , a kissing of the rod , where-with our heavenly father correcteth us . this is that , which , in a soul truly humble , is called the accepting of the punishment of his sin , lev. . . unto this step iobs patience ascended , who said , when he had lost all his creature-possessions , the lord hath given , and the lord hath taken , and blessed be the name of the lord , iob . . the third , and highest step , is , to count it all joy , when ye fall into divers temptations , iam. . . this is the highest step , for perfecting the actings of patience : therefore he addeth to that , let patience have its perfect work , to shew that then it hath it . the second way whereby patience comes to have its perfect work , is , when patience perseveres in acting . the good ground , saith christ , is the honest and good heart , that brings forth fruit with patience , luke . . where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifies both patience and perseverance . it is not sufficient to be patient in some troubles , but it must be exercised in all ; nor , at sometimes onely , but alwayes ; and then onely and not else , patience hath its perfect work , and when patience hath its perfect work , then every grace hath its perfect work . the third case , wherein we are to be instructed , how to exercise this hope aright , in our private and personal concernments , is , in reference to the times future . when fears of evils to come disquiet mens minds and hearts , many secret mis-givings of heart are ●ncident even to true believers , by reason of the flesh remaining in them , in part , that sundry outward afflictions , by crosses , or losses of dearest relations , or of the means of outward subsistence , or of liberty , or of life , may befal them : or inward temptations and sins may prevail against them ; which fears do usually dis-sweeten to them present mercies , and accordingly hinder their thankfulnesse to god for them . therefore the instruction is of great importance , and of continual use , which we are now upon . for the more distinct handling whereof i shall endeavour to clear two things . . something concerning such fears . . how this hope is to be exercised about them . . for the first . fear is an affliction acted and exercised upon the apprehension of some impendent and approaching evil . this fear is , sometimes culpable , sometimes commendable . . fear is culpable , and a sin , when it is opposite to trusting in god , of this salomon saith ; the fear of man bringeth a snare ; but who so trusteth in the law shall be set on high , prov. . . he shall be set above the reach of snares , and so be safe . this fear may be known by three characters . . by its rise , when it ariseth from distrust in gods promises and providence . this is an habitual , ruling , distemper in all natural men ; it is not so in the regenerate ; yet , by the strength of temptation , and the flesh , in them , it sometimes prevailes actually . hence david discovered a suddain perturbation of his mind , by unadvised speeches , which were dishonourable to god , when he said , i shall perish one day by the hand of saul , sam. . . and , i said in my hast all men are liars , psal . . . . by its immediate object ; whether , it be sin , or trouble . . fear least they should hereafter fall into such or such a sin , fixeth their thoughts upon sin , and insnares them in sin . it is very dangerous to propound to a mans self any thought of sin , as sin , especially , of the materials of sin . for such is mans weaknesse , and satans subtilty , that the contemplation of sin in the thoughts , though it be not done with any intent to commit it , but to avoid it , defiles the soul , before men are aware . for sin is a defiler , and leaves a stain behind it , whereby thoughts of sin soon become sinful thoughts , and the speculation of sin fals into speculative acting sin . hereof the apostle iames warneth us , in iam. . . saying , every man is tempted , when he is drawn aside of his own lust , and enticed . then , when lust hath conceived , it bringeth forth sin , &c. . fear of future troubles and sufferings , arising from fore-thinking them , becomes blame-worthy , three wayes . . when they imagine such as are never likely to befal them , and are disquieted with fears of them . this is to fear shadowes ; which argueth weaknesse in the judgment , or guilt in the conscience . that may be said to such truly , which zebul spake to gaal skoffingly ; thou seest the shadows of the mountains , as if they were men , judg. . . it is threatned for a punishment upon sinners , in lev. . . aud executed upon them , in prov. . . . when they think of future evils , which are but possible , and , at the most , but probable , with such terror , as if they were certain and inevitable ; and so give certain strength to an uncertain crosse . this god reproveth , in isa . . . . when they multiply and magnifie evils , that are to be expected as certainly future , above their dueproportion , and so fear lesser evils , as if they were the greatest evils . christ warned his disciples of this , in mat. . . the third character of such fears , is the evil effects of them . . bondage , which is contrary to faith , rom. . . . torment , which is contrary to love , joh. . . . discouragement , from using good means for the prevention of the thing feared . hence the distrustful jews rejected the prophets exhortation to conversion ; saying , if our transgression , and our sins be upon us , and we pine away in them ; how should we then live , ezek. . . . venturing upon the use of unwarranted means to avoid the thing feared ; whereby they bring it upon themselves . thus saul , fearing that , if david lived , his posterity should not succeed him in the throne , sought to kill him ; and the sanhedrim fearing that , if christ were let alone , all men would believe in him , and the romans would come , and take away both their place and nation ; concluded , that christ must be put to death . both brought upon themselves that which they feared , by the wrath of god against them , for using ill means to avoid it . according to gods threatning denounced against all such , in prov. . . the fear of the wicked shall come upon him . . fear is commendable , and good , and our duty , when it hath hope in gods mercy joyned inseperably with it . of this fear david saith , behold , the eye of the lord is upon them that fear him , upon them that hope in his mercy , psal . . . again , the lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him ; in those that hope in his mercy , psal . . . this ●●lial reverential fear of god may be known by three characters . . by the rise of it ; it ariseth from faith . by faith noah moved with fear prepared an ark , heb. . . . by the direct and immediate object of it , which is god himself . this was so eminent in izhack , that god hath a denomination from izhacks fear of him , he is called the fear of izhack , gen. . . when others fear men , fear poverty , fear disgrace , a believer feareth god , the majesty , authority , power of the great god is strong upon his heart . this makes him careful to worship god , according to his revealed will , and to walk uprightly before god , to honour , serve , and please him in his whole conversation , and to seek the face of god in jesus christ . . by its effects , which are such as these : . it keeps from carnal security , and placing our rest and contentment in worldly things . thus it wrought in job , whilest he lived in outward prosperity . therefore he said , in his affliction ; the thing that i greatly feared is come unto me . i was not in safety , neither had i rest , neither was i quiet , job . , . and from trusting in spiritual priviledges and graces received ; whereof paul warneth all gentile-christians , saying ; be not high minded , but fear , rom. . . . it makes men careful to avoid what might provoke god against them , and bring on them the evil feared . hence they fear and avoid sin , as a deadly snare . the fear of the lord , is a well-spring of life , to depart from the snares of death , prov. . . . hardnesse of heart , as a mischievous evil , prov. . . blessed is the man that feareth alwayes , but he that hardneth his heart , shall fall into mischief . . departing from god , so saith god , i will put my fear in their hearts , that they shall not depart from me , jer. . . . this fear quickens to use all good means to sense our selves against future evils ; as fear of an inundation causeth men to raise banks , for keeping out the sea , and , if a breach be made ; to repair it speedily . thus this fear wrought in jacob , when esau came out against him ; and in noah , to provide against the deluge ; and in those aegyptians , to keep themselves and their cattle in their houses , to escape the storm , which moses fore-told would kill all that were in the field . the more we are prepared , by this fear , for afflictions , before they come , the lesse we shall be oppressed with them , when they come . for thereby , either afflictions shall be weakned , and lesse able to hurt us , or we shall be strengthened , and more able to bear them . now , this hope , whereof we speak , being rightly excercised , will be of great efficacy , to quicken good fear , and to subdue sinful fear in us . therefore , i shall endeavour to shew you how you may excercise this hope aright , in four directions . . lay a sure ground-work for this hope to be built upon . this is then done , when you know that your soul saith , the lord is your portion . for , . this will assure your interest in god himself , who is an all-sufficient portion . when you can say , with david , the lord is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup , psal . . . you may comfortably adde , as he did , in ver . . the lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places : yea , i have a goodly heritage . . this will cause you to cleave to the lord with purpose of heart , as barnabas exhorted the antiochians to do , in acts . . for where a mans treasure is , there will his heart be also , mat. . . as the needle in the compasse , being touched with the load-stone , is in continual motion , till it points to the north ; the reason whereof , some conceive , is , because in the north are rocks of load-stone , with which the needle so touched hath a sympathy : so the soul being touched by the spirit of faith , is in continual motion , till it points unto god in christ , that living rock and true load-stone , who draws believers to him by a spiritual sympathy which they have with him ; as he said in ioh. . . i , if i be lifted up from the earth , will draw all men unto me . then , and not before , they have true rest . then they may say with david , return unto thy rest , o my soul ! psal . . . . this will settle and strengthen your hearts against all distracting , discouraging , distrustful fears about future evils . for , things to come are yours , when you are christs , cor. . , . the worst that can be-fall you , shall not loose that blessed union that is between god in christ and your souls . not sin past , for that is already pardoned ; and therefore shall not condemn you hereafter , rom. . . nor shall sin to come , have dominion over you , rom. . . for you are kept by the power of god , through faith , unto salvation , pet. . . nor death , though it may separate two neer friends , the soul and body ; yet it shall joyn together more fully and perfectly two better friends , christ and the soul , which , when it is absent from the body , is present with the lord , cor. . . and , in the resurrection , when both shall be reunited , we shall be for ever with the lord , thess . . . nor temptations ; see how paul triumphed over all principalities and powers , over life and death , over things present and to come , in assurance that nothing should separate him , or any true believer , from the love of god in christ jesus , rom. . , . yea , that all things should work for his & their good , rom. . . a believer in christ is as sure of the time to come , as he is of the time presentor past . for he can say , with the church , in ps . . ult . this god is our god , and he will be our guid unto death ; and can look unto christ , as alpha and omega , the beginning and the ending , which is and which was , and which is to come , the almighty , rev. . . and he hath the promises of god in christ for the future , isa . . , . joh. . , , . . this ground work being well laid , build upon it , for the future , by excersing this hope , . in its purging work , joh. . . to purge out inordinate affection , whereby the soul cleaves close and fast to present things and creatures , whence , they are as affraid to part with them , as one is to have a piece of linnen cloth or plaister plucked off from an ulcerous sore , whereunto it sticketh so fast , that it can hardly be pulled away without great pain , and without drawing the skin and part of the flesh with it ; whereas if that ulcerous matter were purged , and the sore healed , the plaister would fall off it self , and the cloth might be taken away , without any pain or difficulty . hoping in god , being rightly excercised , worketh this great cure , by rectifying mens apprehensions concerning the creatures , and ordering their affections aright towards god , looking at both with the eye of faith , by scripture light , which represents all things , out of god in christ , when they become the objects of our hope , as vain , and sinful and hurtful . the creatures are good , as they come out of gods hand , but as they are abused , by being idolized , they become vain , and degenerate into nothing . for as an idol is nothing in the world , cor. . . nothing , which men account it to be , not to be trusted in . so , creature are but vain and empty , like those blasted eares of corn , in pharaohs dream , unlesse god fils them with his blessing . it is a common errour and delusion , to think that , if you had such friends , such relations , such estates , &c. you should live happily and comfortably . for , as david said of an horse , in reference to getting the victory , an horse is a vain thing : so we may say of all creatures being separated from god , in reference to happinesse and comfort , they are vain things to be trusted in , for which christ called that rich man a fool , luke . , . . it is a sin against the first commandement , to give the honour which is due to god alone , unto any creature , as men do that glory in them , jer. . , . and set their hearts upon them , psal . . , . this is idolatry , col. . . it is atheisme , a denial of gods all-sufficiency , which is his peculiar glory , and the foundation of upright walking in the saints , gen. . . it s the cause of all sins . the schoolmen do rightly define sin to be an aversion of the soul from the immutable god and turning of it to the mutable creature . for all sin implies an over-valuing of the creatures , and an under-valuing of god. see with what indignation god reproves this sin , in jer. . , . . thus to cleave unto present things , and creatures is very hurtful to your selves . for , . it steals mens hearts from god ( as absalom stole the hearts of the people from david ) unto things that cannot profit , nor deliver , for they are vain , sam. . . . it provoketh god to with-draw and with-hold his concourse and blessing from the creatures , without which you cannot have any good from them , nor by them ; your own experience may convince you of this . for hence it is that the creatures work unequally , not alwayes one way ; friends and other things , sometimes comfort us , sometimes afflict us . physick could not cure asa , because he trusted in the physitians more than in god ; that all may see , creatures cannot of themselves do us any good , but as god worketh by them , and with them , whose peculiar glory it is to do good or evil , isa . . . . it provokes god to hide his face from you ; and then , though your mountain stand , you will not have peace , as david found , in psal . . ; . yea , to fill you with terrours in the middest of your jollities , as he did belshazzar , in dan. . yea , to reject your prayers , in the day of your distresse , and to send you to your idols for help , as he did those , in judg. . , . for they that observe lying vanities , forsake their own mercies , jon. . . . the third direction is , to excercise this hope in its quickening work . for this hope is a lively hope , pet. . . it , being quickened by the live-making spirit , hath lively operations and efficacy , in the souls of believers to quicken true child-●ike fear of god in them , which is the beginning of wisdom , prov. . . for , though knowledge and faith go before it , yet there is no true wisdom in either of them , unlesse they work in a man this fear . this fear will make us stand in aw of . god , when we see the effects of his wrath upon others . so it wrought in david , when he saw vzzah smitten dead , in sam. . , . and when he saw that god did put away the wicked as drosse , psal . . . and in all , that heard of the dreadful stroke of gods vengeance upon ananiah and saphira , in acts . . , . it will make men tremble at his word , isa . . . at the commands of the word , lest they should disobey them ; at the threatnings of the word ; lest they should fall under them , kings . . at the promises of the word ; lest they should fall short of them , heb. . . this fear breeds care , and quickens to self-humbling , putting his mouth in the dust , if there may be hope , lam. . . and to speedy reformation ; as we see in that speech of shecaniah unto ezra , ezra . . , . and to fervent prayer , as we see it wrought in jacob , hos . . . with gen. . and hezekiah , jer. . . and the king and people of niniveh , jon. . . and the prophet habbakuk , hab. . . it quickens believers to seek accesse unto god by the mediator , deut. . , . . and therefore to flie unto christ , as chickens get under the wings of the hen , in affrightments , and to trust in god , through christ , and in his word . so it wrought in david , psal . . . lastly , it quickens us to fear the lord and his goodnesse , hos . . . it will not suffer men to be wanton upon the goodnesse of god , to slight his goodnesse , to do evil , because god is good ; or to sin , that grace may abound : but it will cause them to fear the lord and his goodnesse , fear to offend his goodnesse . the goodnesse of god will strongly ingage their hearts to walk closely and uprightly with god. . the fourth direction is , to excercise this hope in its encouraging and strengthening work , to establish and settle our hearts against all discouraging distrustful fears : . of evil tidings , psal . . , . . of evil times ; when all things are turned upside down , and the mountains , princes and great potentates , render themselves terrible to the church and people of god , and the prophane multitude rage against them , like the roaring of the waters , and they can have no rest in their dwellings ; yet they the church and people of god shall have sweet refreshments , by the promises and ordinances , as they of jerusalem had by the waters of siloah , and safety , by the protection of god , who is their refuge , and a present help in times of trouble ; as it is excellently expressed , in psal . . . of the prosperity and opposition of evil men , against which david comforted himself by hoping in god , psal . . . . and , upon his experience encouraged all believers to take the same course , psal . . , , , , . . of whatever may or can befal them , in this world , psal . . , &c , for , . god is graciously present with them , rom. . . therefore they may be confident of safety against future evil , as david was , psal . . . though armies should surround them , as the syrians did elisha , they have no cause of discouraging fears ; for , if the lord open the eyes of their faith , they may see an invisible guard of angels about them , as elisha's servant saw about his master , kings . . . they are dear to god , as the apple of his eye , zach. . . . all future events are in gods , not their enemies , not in their own hands , psal . . . . they have the sure word and promises of god , for them , isa . . , , . and . , . . god is , in all the changes that passe over them , unchangeable , as in himself , jam. . . so in his love to them , jer. . . and in his faithfulnesse in his promises , psal . . . to whom they are called to commit their souls in well doing , as into the hands of a faithful creator , pet. . . doing their own duties , and leaving events to god , as jacob gen. . . hest . . . and they in dan. . , , : the second case , wherein we are to be instructed how to excercise this , in reference to the publick state of the churches of christ under persecution , and the oppression of enemies , remains to be spoken to . which that i may the more distinctly and fully declare ; i shall indeavour to cleer two things : . what the present condition of all the protestant churches , throughout europe is . . how we may and ought to excercise this hope , in reference thereunto . . to clear the first , i shall give you a true narrative of the protestant churches , in europe , singly and severally considered , as i have received it from a faithful and unquestionable hand . . the churches in poland , bohemia , moravia , anstria , and silesia , which were , not long since , many and flourishing , are now wholly dissipated and wasted . . though some churches remain in transilvania and hungary , yet they are in danger to be ruined by any advantage of power which the house of austria may get against them . . in germany , the churches are so divided , and the protestant states are so distracted , that , not onely all concurrences in a common way , for their mutual edification and preservation are hindred ; but also , as the lutheran party , by their contentious ministry , hath set it self to destroy the rest , so god hath suffered their chief protectors , the kings of sweeon and denmark , to destroy each other . and the electors of saxony and brandenburg , not respecting the safety of their churches , do serve the austrian design against the protestant interest . nor is there any considerable prince in germany , except the landsgrave of hessen , that is able to do any thing of moment to maintain that interest . . in the low couutreys ; their present actings tend rather to serve the enemies design against the protestant interest , then for it . . in france , the protestant churches are deprived of their former priviledges . so that their standing is a meer toleration , at pleasure . . in geneva , we are informed , from other hands , that the duke of savoy would impose a governour and a bishop upon them , or , in case , of their refusal , threatens to besiege them ; and that the king of france refuseth to protect them , unlesse they will receive a bishop . . in the vallies of piemont ; the duke of savoy doth still most cruelly , though not openly , oppresse and vex the protestants , notwithstanding the peace made with them ; by giving them up to the power of the popish inquisition , which threatens their utter ruin , if god doth not prevent it . . in switzerland , the pope and the austrians , have stirred up and hired the popish cantons to break their fundamental league with the protestants , by persecuting to death or banishment all such as leave their superstitions to become proselytes to us . . how it is with our native countrey , england , and those conjoyned with it , in scotland and ireland , you have formerly heard , in part , and may have more hereafter . . if we add hereunto the great advantages which the popish party hath against the protestants , and what posture the protestant churches are in , in respect of their mutual relation each to other , to oppose this combination of their enemies , so strongly and universally laid ; it will be manifest that the antichristian party had never so great advantage against the churches of christ , since the reformation began , as now they have . for , . whereas formerly the popish parties were divided , now , their differences being composed , they are all united in one common design against the protestant religion and churches ; and their head , the pope , doth manage their common interest with much subtlety and vigour , and that openly , by innumerable agents and emissaries , who are subordinate to the congregation de propaganda fide , who creep into all protestant states and professions , to observe any distance or divisions among them , to widen and foment the same in the minds of the common sort , and to cast stumbling blocks cunningly before all the rest , and thereupon to insinuate the more plausibly their own superstitions . hence , in france , where the popish inquisition was not formerly admitted , it is now of late introduced under a new name of the congregation de propaganda fide ; which is an inquisition in effect , and hath begun to act there with publick authority , prohibiting all commerce from abroad , for the vent of divinity books ; in so much that they do not suffer bibles brought from geneva to be sold any where , but do confiscate them . and in every city in france , where a church of protestants is , there is also a certain number of emissaries , belonging to the congregation de propaganda fide , setled , to oppose and vex them . and it is intended that this designe shall be prosecuted universally against all protestant churches in other places , so soon as the protestant states shall be sufficiently weakned , by divisions among themselves . . it is greatly to be lamented , that , whilest satans instruments are so active and united to advance his kingdom ; we who are sujects of christs kingdom , and so many wayes bound to advance it , are so carelesse of christ his interest , that , on the one hand , licentiousnesse , prophanenesse , heresies , blasphemies , and wickednesses break forth , to the reproach of christian religion ; and , on the other hand , the divided professo●s thereof seek & follow eagerly their own advantages , of power and places to undermine the settlement of each other ; and while the enemies have agents every where , and an universal correspondency to weaken us by division , & then to ruin us ; no such way of agency or correspondency is set on foot by publick authority among us to ingage the godly-wise & peaceable to joyn with us to lay the cōmon-gospel-interest to heart , and to communicate counsel and assistance each to other , at least , to pray for one another suitably to the exigencies of things , that when help faileth on earth , it may be procured from the mighty god immediately . for which the lord may justly dash us into pieces , one against another , as vessels unfit for his honour and service . . this being the present state of all the churches of christ in europe , i proceed to instruct you to excercise this hope aright , in reference thereunto : which that i may do , i must clear two things : . what disposition of spirit is necessary to qualifie the person , to make him a fit subject of this hope . . how they who are thus qualified must excercise it . . for the first ; whosoever would have and excercise this hope in reference to the publick state of the afflicted churches of christ , they must have and excercise publick spirits in the communion of saints , that is , they must be sanctified by faith in christ , and joyned unto christ visibly , as the head of his church , in communion with the church , which is his body , and take to heart the publick state of the churches , and christ his interest in them , whatever their own private condition is , and to prefer the publick concernments before and above their own private , in their judgments , affections , and indeavours . we must esteem that spiritual society , and the concernments of it , as more considerable then our own . hereof god himself gives us example , who preferres his church before and above all the world besides , as his chief treasure , exod. . . his jewels , mal. . . tels them that they are so precious in his sight , and honourable and loved of him ; that he will give men for them , and people for their life , isa . . . as he did call off senacherib from jerusalem , by sending tirrhaka the king of aethiopia , to invade his land , and so gave both aethiopians and aegyptians into his hand , to free his church from him . now , gods judgment of persons and things should be the rule of our judgment . for we know that the judgment of god is according to truth . so did moses , whose love acted so highly from his high esteem of the church and gods interest of honour in it , that , though god offered to make him a great nation , if he would let him alone , that he might consume israel in the wildernesse , exod. . . yet he was so far from accepting it , that he prayed the lord to forgive their sin , and , if not , to blot him out of the book which he had written , ver . . david was so strongly ingaged in his affections to the church of god , that if all his petitions were to be put into one ; it should be this , that he might dwell in the house of the lord , to behold his beauty there , psal . . . he had rather be one day there , then a thousand elsewhere , and to be a door-keeper in gods house , than to dwel in the tents of wickednesse , psal . . , . the place of the publick holy assemblies , was a tent , a tabernacle , an unfixed , a moveable place , yet he cals that an house , a fixed mansion . the people dwelt in houses firmly built upon foundations ; yet david accounted the houses of wicked men tabernacles ; he looked for no stability in the world , but onely in the church and fellowship of those that are in covenant . see how affectionately he speaks of church assemblies and communion with them , psal . . , . of the same mind and spirit were the saints in the babilonish captivity , psal . . , . and the same spirit works the like disposition in all the members of christs mystical body ; whether one member suffer , all the members suffer with it ; or one member be honoured , all the members rejoyce with it , cor. . . and they see good reason for their so acting in the concernments of the churches of christ . for , . they know that god hath recorded his name there ; and his name is put upon church members , and therefore his name is honoured , or dishonoured , as things are well or ill with his church . hence it was , that josua was so exceedingly afflicted for the flight of the people before ai , though but about thirty six were slain ; what shall i say , when israel flies before the enemies ? and the canaanites will hear of it , &c. and what wilt thou do to thy great name ? iosh . . , . therefore christ teacheth us to joyn these together immediately ; hallowed be thy name : thy kingdom come , to shew us that answerable to the well being of the church , which is the kingdome of grace , will be the honour of gods name , in this world. . they know that the welfare of all states and people , where churches are , depends upon the welfare of the church . for so runs the promise ; israel shall be a blessing in the midst of the land , isa . . . hence it was that the saints could not be satisfied with their own private welfare , if the church of god was in affliction and danger , or under reproach . as you may see in vriah , sam. . . in nehemiah , neh. . , . with . , &c. and in daniel , though he was as highly preferred , as a subject could be , in the greatest monarchy , dan. . , . hence also , when there hath been a double affliction upon them , both publick and private ; the publick hath swallowed up the private , and made it inconsiderable , in comparison . as we see in eli. sam. . . and his daughter in law , the wife of phineas , ver . , . lastly , hence it was , that when they have had a double opportunity , of doing or procuring good to the publick , and to their own private ; they have preferred the publick advantage before their own private interest . thus terentius a christian commander in the wars under the emperor valens , who was an arrian , being willed by that emperor , for a special service done by him , to demand what he would , made his petition to the emperor , which he presented to him in writing ; that the christians might have the liberty of a church by themselves , to worship god apart from the arrians . the emperor read his petition , and disliking it , tore it , and threw it away . terentius meekly gathered up the scattered pieces , and professed to the emperor , that , if he could not be heard in gods cause , he would not make any suit for his own profit . how may this worthy man shame most christians , in these dayes , who , if their garners may be ful , their sheep multiply , their oxen be strong to labour , their sons be as plants grown up , and their daughters polished and set forth with ornaments , and there be no complaining in the streets ; think themselves happy , and regard not what becomes of religion , and of christs cause and interest in the churches , take not to heart the afflictions of gods people ; if their trading increase ; one good bargain will more comfort them then all the calamities of the church can grieve them ; they can hear and speak of the breaches and ruins of sion , as the athenians did of news , without remorse , or regard . brethren , it is a weighty matter to read letters , and receive intelligence in them concerning the state of the churches . you had need to lift up your hearts to god , when you are about to read your letters from our native country , to give you wisdom and hearts duly affected , that you may receive such intelligences , as you ought . for god looks upon every man , in such cases , with a jealous eye , observing with what workings of bowels they read or speak of the concernments of his church . you see , in amos . . how his wrath was incensed against those who solaced themselves with their private prosperity , but were not sick , their hearts aked not , for the afflictions of joseph . . they know that , if they with-draw from being helpful to the church , god will do good to his church without them ; but he will be avenged upon them that desert or neglect his cause and people . this argument mordecai used to hester , in hest . . , . and it prevailed mightily with her to run the utmost hazard of her own person , when there might be hope of some good to the church thereby , ver . . for the contrary , meroz was cursed by the angel of the lord , because they came not to the help of the lord against the mighty , iudg. . . though men cannot help the lord , essentially or personally , yet they may be said to help him , relatively , in his cause and people , when they own his cause and people , and appear on that side , when satan and his instruments raise persecutions and reproaches against them : though the lord needs not mens help , in such cases ; for , when he saw that there was no mon , no intercessor , his own arm brought salvation unto him , isa. . . yet it is our duty to shew on whose side we stand . for christ will look at them as his enemies that disown his cause and people , at such times , as he saith , he that is not with me , is against me , mat. . . are the people and wayes of god under reproach ? christ is reproachd in them and with them , rom. . . object . ah! but they are called fools and fanaticks ? answ . when was it otherwise ? bernard complained of the like , in his time ; ipsa religio in opprobrium venit , & timor domini simplicitas reputatur , ne dicam , fatuitas . that is , religion it self comes into reproach , and the fear of god is accounted simplicity , that i say not folly . and , before him , augustine describes the scoffs and frumps of luke-warm professors against the zeal of those that were fervent in spirit , serving the lord , quid insanis ? aiunt nimius est . nuncquid alii non sunt christiani ? ista stultitia est , dementia est . that is , why art thou mad ? say they , your zeal is too much . what ? are none christians but you ? that is folly , it is fanatiquenesse . and , before his time , long , how were the ancient christians in the ten persecutions , years after christ traduced reproached ! rev. . . before that , in the apostles dayes , paul saith of himself , and the rest , we are fools for christs sake , &c , cor. . . and , if we be besides our selves , it is to god , cor. . . peter and john esteemed it a grace to be disgraced for christ , acts . . christ well knew how crosse to the natural affection of all men reproach and disgrace is ; therefore he , to arme his disciples against it , shews them the happinesse they should have by suffering reproaches and revilings , for his sake , and the gospel , mat. . , . and the wo●●● issue of declining it , mar. . . christ added , as a motive , to incourage his disciples in suffering reproaches , that so persecuted they the prophets , mat. . . which of the prophets escaped sharp tryals , this way ? yea , david himself , though a king , was despised by michal for his zeal in bringing home the ark , and dancing before it , with his head uncovered , as one of the vain persons , said she : but david was so far from being discouraged thereby , that his zeal was more inflamed , and his resolution increased ; it was before the lord , said he , which chose me before thy father , &c. and i will be yet more vile then thus , and will be base , in mine own sight , &c. sam. . , . i have spoken the more largely unto this , because the present temptation of this time , in the other afflictions of the churches , is the reproachful titles put upon the people of god , whom prophane men call phanaticks . but , if he is a fool that will be laughed out of his coat ; much mure is he a fool , and a mad man , that will suffer himself to be laughed out of heaven , that will hazard the losse of his soul , and salvation to free himself from the mocks and scoffs of a prophane and sinful world. if christ had not , for our sakes endured the crosse , despising the shame , we could never have been redeemed and saved ; let us go forth therefore unto him , without the camp , bearing his reproach , heb. . . in the same epistle , the christian hebrews are exhorted to call to remembrance the former dayes , in which , after they were illuminated , they endured a great fight of afflictions , partly , whilest they were made a gazing stock , both by reproaches , and afflictions ; and partly , whilest they became companions of them that were so used , heb. . , . let us do likewise , and own the reproached and persecuted people and cause of christ in suffering times . with-hold not countenance , entertainment , protection , from such , if they come to us , from other countreys , as from france or england , or any other place . be not forgetful to entertain strangers ; for thereby some have entertained angels unawares . remember them that are in bonds , as bound with them , and them which suffer adversity , as being your selves also in the body , heb. . , . the lord required this of moab , saying , make thy shadow , as the night in the midst of the noon day , i. e. provide safe and comfortable shelter and refreshment for my people , in the heat of persecution and opposition raised against them , hide the out-casts , bewray not him that wandereth . let mine out-casts dwell with thee moab , be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler , isa . . , . object . but so i may expose my self to be spoiled or troubled ? he therefore , to remove this objection , addeth , for the danger is at an end , the spoiler ceaseth , the treaders down , are consumed out of the land . while we are attending to our duty , in owning , and harbouring christs witnesses , god will be providing for their and our safety , by destroying those that would destroy his people . two helps i shall propound , to arm you against those fears of reproach , or dangers , whereby men are apt to be drawn to flinch from the cause and witnesses of christ , in suffering times . . strengthen your faith . a sight of the invisible god , and an eye to the recompence of reward so quickened and strengthened the faith of moses , that he chose rather to suffer affliction with the people of god , then to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season ; esteeming the reproach of christ greater riches , then the treasures of aegypt , heb. . , . and , as faith will strengthen you hereunto ; so faith will be strengthened hereby , in your prayers against being lead into temptation , and left unto scandalous evils , that might expose you to just reproach . therefore david having put up this request to god , that none that wait on god and seek him should be ashamed or confounded for his sake , urgeth this , as an argument , to strengthen his faith ; because for thy sake i have born reproach , shame hath covered my face , psal . . . , . . exalt god , as the highest object of your fear . fear god , as he ought to be feared , fear him above all . the greater fear will expel the lesser . therefore the lord prescribes this fearing him aright , as the best remedy against all carnal fears , whereby men are wont to be hindred from obeying god in those duties that will expose men to hurt from the creature , isa . . , . and chap. . , , , . so doth christ , in mat. . . the balking of any duty , which god commandeth , is the ready way to bring upon you , by the wrath of god , that very evil , which you fear that the doing of your duty will expose you to , by the wrath of men . this was that argument , which the prophet jeremy used , to zedekiah , in jer. . , , , , . because he , fearing lest the iews , that were fallen to the caldaeans , should deliver him into their hand , and they should mock him ; by disobeying the commandement of god , brought upon himself , as a just punishment from the wrath of god , the thing which he feared . . the next thing to be shewn , for your instruction , is , how they that are so qualified should exercise this hope , in reference to the publick concernments of the churches , in this their low and afflicted condition . for this purpose i shall propound two directions . . see that you lay a sure foundation of this hope , a firm ground-work for this hope to be built and exercised upon ; faith in god as his churches portion , is this ground-work . therefore , let the eye of your faith , through the glasse of the word , look unto god , in this case ; as jehosaphat did , in chron. . . we have no might against this great company that commeth against us ; neither know we what to do , but our eyes are upon thee . look not so much with the eye of sense downward , and round about you , as with the eye of faith upward , and into the scripture-promises . there , if the lord open your eyes , you shall see that more are with the church and cause , and people of god , then can be against them . this course david took , and was comforted , even when he was surrounded with dangers , psal . . . mine eyes are ever towards the lord , said he , for he shall pluck my feet out of the net . that your faith in god may be strengthened in this hour of temptation , in these times of the afflictions of joseph ; consider three things : . christ his interest of propriery in the churches of the saints . for the church is christs vineyard . the vineyard of the lord of hosts is the house of israel , isa . . . salomons vineyard in baal-haman was the choicest parcel of his lands . christs vineyard is the chiefest part of his inheritance in the world. salomon let forth his vineyard to keepers . but of this vineyard , his church , christ saith , my vineyard which is mine , is before me , cant. . , . christ doth not let forth his vineyard unto keepers , but himself keeps it under his own eye continually . indeed , when his vineyard answers not his cost and pains bestowed upon it , but , when he looketh that it should bring forth grapes , it brings forth wild grapes , then , he will take away the hedge thereof , and break down the wall hereof , and then it shall be eaten up , and trodden down , isa . . , . then the boar out of the wood will waste it , and the wild beast of the field will devour it , for a time , till god attain his end , in their repentance and amendment ; and then he will be intreated to return , and look down from heaven and behold and visit this vine , psal . . , . and when it becomes a vineyard of red wine , holding forth the value and vertue of the blood of christ , in their faith and obedience , see what he saith of it : i the lord do keep it , i will water it every moment ; lest any hurt it , i will keep it night and day , isa . . , . . the church is christs house , the house of the living god , tim. . . an house which cost him more then all the silver , and gold , and precious stones in the world will amount unto . for god purchased the church with his blood , acts . , . christ is the builder and governor of it , heb. . , . and therefore he will see to it , when it suffers any hurt , that it be repaired , and kept in repair . . the church is christs kingdom , which god will maintain against all rebels , as you see at large , in the second psalm . . the church is christs spouse , and therefore nearer and dearer to him then any other society in the world , at his right hand stands the queen in gold of ophir , psal . . . as salomon set his mother at his right hand , to shew that she was next to him , and above all other his subjects . ahasuerosh his wrath was so incensed against haman , for plotting against his queen , and her people , that he determined evil against him , and when he saw him fallen upon the bed whereon hester was ( though he did it to make request for his life ) his wrath so boiled up to the height , that he said ; will he force the queen also before me in the house ? then they covered hamans face , and , at the kings command , hanged him upon the gallows which he had prepared for mordecai , as you may see in the th . chapter of hester . the love of christ to the church , which is his spouse , infinitely exceeds the love of ahasuerosh to hester . therefore they consult misery and ruin to themselves and their families , who plot against the church . and wo to them that would force the church to their own wills and devises , contrary to the mind of christ . . the church is christs body and fulnesse ; christ hath not his fulnesse without his church . god hath put all things under christs feet , and hath given him to be the head over all things to the church , which is his body , the fulnesse of him that filleth all in all , eph. . , . hence he sympathiseth with them . in all their afflictions he is afflicted , isa . . . and what is done against them , is done against him . saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? acts . . as when the least toe is trodden upon , the head , by the tongue , cries , why do you hurt me ? you see what christs interest of propriety in his church is , i. e. the greatest that can be . for it is his vineyard , yea , more , his house , yet higher , his kingdom , yet dearer , his spouse , and nearer yet , his own body . and , you know , propriety is of great force with all , to use all their wisdom and power to maintain and preserve their interest . much more will christ vindicate his own interest of propriety in his church against all opposers of it . . consider the covenant , whereinto god hath taken his church and people , together with the promises , that , as so many branches of the covenant , belong unto them thereby . god saith unto his church , i sware unto thee , and entred into a covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine , ezek. . . and of god it is said ; he will ever be mindful of his covenant , psal . . . upon this ground the faith of the church was strengthened , when they were in a very low and forlorn state , to plead with god ; doubtlesse thou art our father , though abraham be ignorant of us , and israel acknowledge us not ; thou , o lord , art our father , our redeemer , thy name is from everlasting , isa . . . and again , in verse . we are thine , thou never bearest rule over them , thy name was not called upon of them . the promises that belong unto the church and people of god , under this relation , are innumerable . i shall touch upon two or three , that are suitable unto them , in reference to the opposition of their enemies , psal . . , . the wicked plotteth ( or practiseth ) against the just , and gnasheth at him with his teeth . the lord shall laugh at him , ( that is , shall render him ridiculous , and contemptible to others , as he plots to make the church be unto the world ) for he seeth that his day is comming . by his day , is meant , his dismal day , the day of his calamity , the day appointed of god for his punishment , the destruction , the day when their iniquity shall have an end . such a day is comming upon them : therefore it is added , in verse . for the arms of the wicked shall be broken ; but jehovah upholdeth the righteous . behold , ( saith the lord ) i will make jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all people that besiege it round about , zac. . . the besiegers of jerusalem , the church of god , think they may as easily swallow it up , as a man may drink a cup of wine , and it is as delightsome unto them to do so ; but they shall find it a cup of giddinesse , a drink too strong for them ; yea , a cup of poyson , that will cast them into a drunken sleep , out of which when they shall be awakened , horrour , astonishment , trembling shall seize upon them . it is added , in verse . and in that day , i will make jerusalem a burdensome stone , for all people ; all that burden themselves with it , shall be cut in pieces ; though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it . it is folly for any one to lift at a stone , that being too heavy for him to manage , will fall upon him and break his bones . such a stone shall all that lift at the church to remove it out of its place , find it to be unto themselves . the lord jesus , to whom all power in heaven and earth is given , hath said , speaking of peters confessing him to be christ , the son of the living god , with a divine faith , such as is wrought by the revelation of the father ) upon this rock i will build my church ; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it , mat. . , , . the gates of hell , signifie all the power and policy of the devil , and all his instruments , they shall not prevail against christs church , taken indefinitely . he will preserve his church , in one place or other in the world , maugre all their malice . these , and the like promises , are the streams , which , flowing from that river , the covenant of grace , make glad the city of god , which is his church , even when the waters roar , and the mountains are shaken with the swelling thereof , psal . . , . that is , what ever changes of government are caused by the fury of a tumultuous multitude , stirred up by satanand his instruments against the church and people of god. . consider the presence of god , in christ with his church , in their lowest and most afflicted condition ; according to christs promise to them , being taught to observe and do what he hath commanded , lo , i am with you alway , even unto the end of the world , mat. . . this serves to strengthen the faith of gods people concerning the church , in her lowest and most afflicted estate ; that god is in the midst of her ; she shall not be moved , god will help her , at the looking forth of the morning , psal . . . it is night with the church , when the nations make a noise and the kingdoms are moved , as it is said in the next verse ; yet , even then , the churches faith in god , as their portion , being quickened and strengthened , they say , jehovah of hosts is with us ; the god of jacob , an high refuge for us , selah : ver . . therefore , that this consideration may the better serve to strengthen our faith , i shall shew you sundry representations of gods presence with his people in their lowest , and most afflicted condition , which the scripture holdeth forth unto us . unto abraham it was represented , under a double similitude : . of fowles comming down upon the earcasses , about to be sacrificed , and abrahams driving them away , gen. . . which represented the aegyptians , and all enemies of the church , which disturbe the people of god in their religious duties of gods worship , and that seek to devour the people of god , as kites or eagles , &c. devour carcasses , and gods presence and readinesse to drive them away . . of a smoaking furnace and a burning lamp , verse . the smoaking furnace , notes great afflictions , fiery tryals , which shall befal the israel of god. the burning lamp , signifieth that god in christ is with them , at such times , to save them , isa . . . unto moses it was represented under the appearing of the angel of god in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush , the bush burned with fire , and the bush was not consumed . isa . . . this moses looked at as a great sight ; and so may we . for , the bush , is the church of god , which is burned with fiery tryals : but whence is it that it is not consumed ? it is not from the impotency of the fire to burn the bush , nor from the strength of the bush to resist the fire , but from the presence of god in christ , as appears , ver . , , &c. to ezekiel it was represented under the similitude of a valley , wherein were many bones , and they very dry , ezek. . . the valley signified the low estate of the church , the many dry bones denoted the discouraging apprehensions the people of god have , when they look upon the power of the enemies , and their own weaknesse , with the eye of sense , for so the lord said , in verse . behold , they say , our bones are dried , and our hope is lost , we are cut off for our parts : yet the lord to quicken their faith , promiseth a resurrection to them . another resemblance of gods presence with his church and people , in the midst of their greatest afflictions , we have in those three companions of daniel , who were cast bound into the midst of the fire , yet the fire had no power upon their bodies , not so much as to singe their hair , or to change their coats . the reason of it was , because the son of god was with them , dan. . . unto zachary another resemblance hereof was presented ; he saw , by night a man riding upon a red horse , and he stood among the myrtle trees , that were in the bottom , zach. . . the night , is the time of affliction ; the bottom is the low condition of the church , which is likened unto myrtle trees for its sweet savour unto god. and , in this low afflicted estate , christ is with them , riding upon a red horse , as ready to fight against those that afflicted his church , for whom he intercedes and receives gracious answers . again , in zach. . , . the lord fore-told that he would make jerusalem a cup of trembling to the besiegers , who thought they could as easily swallow them up , as one may drink a cup of wine , and they would do the one with as much pleasure as the other . but , saith the lord , the effects of this cup shall be trembling and astonishment in you . and , in ver . . he saith , he will make ierusalem a burdensome stone to all people that are gathered together against it ; they shall be cut in pieces . then they will see cause to wish they had never burdened themselves with it . thus you see , upon what firm grounds the faith of gods people concerning the good purposes of god towards his church , in their lowest , and most afflicted condition , may be strengthened and setled . . this ground-work being thus laid , build and exercise this hope upon it , in its suitable operations , and works . . in its purging work : for , he that hath this hope purgeth himself , ioh. . . then we work with god , when we improve gods means to gods end . gods end , in afflicting his church , is , not to destroy it , but to purge it . so he saith , in isa . . , . i will turn mine hand upon thee , and purely purge away thy drosse , and take away all thy tinne . and i will restore thy judges as at the first , and thy councellors as at the beginning ; afterward thou shalt be called the city of righteousnesse , the faithful city . there he compares the afflictions of his church and people to the fire whereinto gold and silver is cast , which loseth nothing thereby , but its drosse and tinne ; but the metal it self is thereby made more pure and fit for honourable uses , and services . in the th . chapter , the . and . verses , the same is expressed under two other metaphors : . of an husband-man , or vine-dresser . in measure , and in the branches , wilt thou debate with it ; as the husband-man or vinecoome , doth not stock up the roots , to destroy the fruit trees and vines , but onely lopp them , and prune them , by taking away their luxuriant and superfluous branches , that so they may become more fruitful . . of stormy winds . he instanceth in the east-wind , which is hurtful to the trees and corn , in those hot eastern countreys , by blasting them , gen. . . by its scorching heat , whence the graecians call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet the lord saith he will so order it , that no hurt shall redound to his church and people , by it , but , by this shall the iniquity of jacob be purged , and this shall be all the fruit , to take away his sin . now , seeing this is gods end and way ; let all the churches and people of god , act accordingly , in this time of jacobs troubles , looking up to god in christ for the assistance of his holy spirit , to make this use of his afflicting providences , to be awakened and excited to purge , first , their own hearts , then , the churches , more fully and perfectly . it is no true policy , but folly , in such times , to seek an escape from troubles and dangers , by complyance with the inventions of men , and customes of degenerate churches and christians , in the matters of religion . for that is the ground of gods controversie with his people , for which he testifieth against them , with so strong and open rebukes . but account the fear of god to be the head-point and beginning of wisdom . till men exercise the fear of god , in all their wayes , they do not begin to act wisely . this point of true wisdom god taught iosuae , when he was exceedingly dejected , in josh . . . to : and the church , in captivity practised accordingly . for they confessed that their sorrows and sufferings were the effects of their sins ; and therefore resolved to search and try their wayes and turn again to the lord ; and then , having removed the impediments , their hope was quickened to lift up their hearts with their hands unto god , in the heavens , lam. . , , . shecaniah also , observing how the hearts of gods people were prepared to seek reconciliation with god , confessed that they had trespassed against god , in the particular sin discovered to them , and added ; yet now there is hope in israel concerning this thing . and thereupon inferred , now therefore let us make a covenant with our god , &c. and incouraged ezra to act vigorously for reformation , ezra . , , . the like course the church resolved to take , upon incouragement of the like hope in hos . . , , . this course we also must take , in this hour of temptation , if we would have a good issue of these afflicting dispensations , which are upon us . . exercise this hope in its quickening and incouraging work . for this hope is a lively hope , pet. . . it is very dishonourable to god , and uncomely for christians , to be despondent and discouraged , in such times of trial . the time of jacobs trial should be the time of iacobs trusting in god. so did the church , when the enemies insulted , in mich. . . rejoyce not against me , o mine enemy ; when i fall , i shall arise ; when i sit in darknesse , the lord shall be a light unto me . two objections are wont to arise in the minds of gods people in such times , to weaken their hope in god , you have them both in the answer of gideon to the angel , who said unto him , the lord is with thee , iudg. . , , and gideon said unto him , oh , my lord , if the lord be with us , why then is all this befallen us ? and where be all the miracles which our fathers told us of ? these are the two temptations which , if they be not scattered , will hinder the exercise of this hope . . if god be with us , why then is all this befallen us ? therefore , to arm you , consider , that these two , gods presence with his people , and calamities incumbent upon them , may well consist together . for wise and holy ends god suffers extream calamities to befal his churches and people , before he reacheth forth his hands to deliver them . particularly , he thus dispenseth : . that he may thereby convince them of the vanity of those creature-propps , whereupon they are wont to rely too much , and to purge carnal confidence out of them . this was the great sin of the people of israel , to trust in the shadow of aegypt , and to rely upon assyria , though they were fore-warned that aegypt would be a broken ●eed , which would rather hurt then help them ; therefore , saith the lord , have i cryed to her ; their strength is to sit still , isa . . , . that is , to renounce their creature dependencies , and to expect salvation from god alone , according to moses his exhortation , in exod. . . but they continually disobeyed god herein , till the lord had convinced them of their sin and folly , by their captivity in babylon , from which no creature could deliver them . then , when god by affliction had wrought their hearts to an humble frame , and to repentance , they expresse it , in reference to this sin , particularly , saying , ashur shall not save us , we will not ride upon horses , &c. for in thee the fatherlesse findeth mercy , hos . . . the like controversie god hath with his churches and people , at this day , for their trusting too much in the arm of flesh , in the parliament , in the army , or in the protector ; and thereupon became carnally secure and wanton , and slight , when they had such propps to stay upon , and answerably dejected and almost discouraged , when they failed them . the lord awaken and humble his people for it , and cause their eyes , for the future , to be towards him alone . . that his people may see him in his glory , and glorifie him alone for their deliverances , he brings them unto a seemingly for lorne condition , and helplesse , to the eye of sense . so in isa . . , . the earth mourneth and languisheth ; lebanon is ashamed , and withered ; sharon is like a wildernesse ; and bashan and carmel . all things fail : now will i rise , now will i be exalted ; saith the lord ; now will i lift up my self . mans extremity is gods opportunity . . that , gods faithfulnesse in his promise may be glorified . for so he hath promised in deut. . . the lord shall judg his people , and repent himself for his servants , when he seeth that their power is gone , &c. and , in ps . . . for the oppression of the poor , for the fighing of the needy , now will i arise , saith the lord , i will set in salvation , he shall have breathing . you see how low they are brought , they are poor and needy , and oppressed , so , as they dare not make complaints openly , but sigh and groan secretly . this is the time when god promiseth to rise up , and to give salvation to them . and , to shew that this is gods constant way , in performing his promise , the psalmist addeth his probatum est to it , in the next verse ; the sayings of jehovah , that is , his promises , and , in particular , those that are of this import and concernment , are pure sayings , as silver tried in a subliming furnace of earth , fined seven times ; that is , the saints have , by constant experience , found the truth and faithfulnesse of god in performing them . . that thus god may raise and heighten the esteem of his favours in the hearts of his people , when they are beyond , and above their expectation . this effect followed the return of the people of god from their captivity in babylon , psal . . , , . when jehovah returned the captivity of sion ; we were like them that dream ; that is , it was so far above our thoughts , that we questioned whether it was true , or no , as peter did , in acts . . then was our mouth filled with laughter , and our tongue with joyful-shouting . this did so raise their joy and thanksgiving to god , that it brake forth into shooting . the very heathens admired and said , god hath done great things for them . much more were themselves affected , and therefore they added , jehovah hath done very great things for us , we are joyful . . that , by such dispensations , their faith and obedience may be more fully tryed and perfected . it is said of christ , that , though he were a son , yet learned he obedience , by the things which he suffered , heb. . . that is , by his sufferings , he had the experimental knowledge of that mediatourly obedience , which he , as our surety , was to perform ; which is noted , in phil. . . so the churches of christ are brought low , that they may learn , experimentally , suffering obedience , which is the highest obedience of faith , they are brought into a widdow-like condition , that , as she that is a widdow indeed , and desolate , trusteth in god , and continueth in supplications , and prayers , night and day , tim. . . so they may be disposed suitably to gods end , in afflicting them , who saith , i will leave in the middest of thee an afflicted and poor people , and they shall trust in the name of the lord , zeph. . . . that they may be more fervent in prayer : this operation hope had in david , when he was brought so low that he said , i looked on the right hand , and beheld , and no man acknowledged me , refuge is perished from me , no man seeketh for my soul . this quickned and intended his fervency in prayer , i cryed unto thee , jehovah , and said , thou art my refuge , my portion in the land of the living , psal . . , . despaire in the creatures help is oftentimes the ground of hope in god for help . for infinite goodnesse , accompanied with infinite wisdom and power , can never be at a losse , nor can faith and hope , which look at them , ever be at a stand . as god knows our souls in adversity , psal . . . so we know god best in adversity . god is best seen in the mount. to the second objection ; and where be all his miracles , which our fathers told us of ? i shall speak briefly . it hath been sometimes that which hath troubled the saints , that they see not such great things done for the church , in our dayes , as we read of in former times . but there is no cause for it . for the hand of the lord is not shortened , nor is his church lower in his esteem than formerly . when the lord had said by his prophet , the people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness , jerem. . . the people answered , jehovah hath appeared of old : as if they should say , truth , he did so , in time past ; those were good dayes indeed : but now those dayes are gone , we must look for no more of them . the lord replyed , yea , i have loved thee with an everlasting love , therefore with loving kindnesse have i drawn thee , vers . . teaching us thereby to improve former experiences , to the strengthening of our faith , for the present , and our hope ; for the future . experience is a multiplyed remembrance of former favours , and blessings , which will help to multiply our hope : for experience worketh hope , rom. . . hope encouraged by experience , will encourage unto prayer , psal . . . hence arose that pleading of believers with god in prayer , in isa . . . awake , awake , put on strength , o arm of the lord , awake , as in the ancient dayes , in the generations of old . art thou not it that hath cut rahab , and wounded the dragon of the sea ? art thou not it which hath dryed the sea ? v. . and fervent prayer encreaseth and strengtheneth this hope ; thus christ teacheth us , in the parable of the widdow importuning the unjust judg , luke . , , . joab never put up a more acceptable request unto david , than when he interceded for his banished absalon . god is much more pleased to be petitioned for his afflicted church , psal . . . he is very ready to answer such prayers with good returns : for he saith , ask me of things to come , concerning my sons , and concerning the work of my hands command ye me , isa . . . . exercise this hope in its strengthening work . in every degree of the exercise of this hope there is an answerable degree of joy ; we rejoyce in tribulation under the hope of glory , rom. . , . and answerable to our joy in god will be our strength in god , neh. . . therefore let this hope strengthen you , . to cleave unto god with purpose of heart , acts . . it is good cleaving to him who will never leave nor forsake his people in their distress , heb. . , . they that forsake god to cleave to other helpers , will finde their hopes disappointed , when they have most need of help ; then god will say , where are their gods , their rock in whom they trusted ? deut. . . and they shall not know what to answer , but be ashamed of that which cannot , profit nor deliver : for they are vain . when the people of god are in distress ▪ wicked men will insult against them , and say , where is now their god ? psal . . . but their answer is ready , our god is in the heavens ▪ he hath done whatsoever he pleased , vers . . they will be ready to say , where are your fastings ? your prayers ? your confidence in god ? the answer is easie , they are with god in his book of remembrance : they are as seed sown in heaven , whence we shall reap a plentifull crop of mercy , in due time . but how easily may that be retorted upon them , in reference to god , and his people , which zebul replyed unto gaal , in reference to abimelech , in judg. . . where is now thy mouth , which said , who is the lord , that we should serve him ? is not this the people whom thou hast despised ? only be sure , if you would cleave to god , that you cleave to his word , and every truth in it , when it is opposed by a sinfull and unbelieving generation : contend for the faith which was once given to the saints , jude . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies , not simply to contend , but with all our might , and more , if it were possible . the thing to be contended for is , the faith , not a fancy , but the truths received with faith , upon gods authority in his word , the least jot and tittle whereof god values at a higher rate than heaven and earth , matth. . . and the martyrs of jesus esteemed it above all worldly things , and above their lives . and so should we . . this faith was once delivered once for all . if it be lost , or exchanged for errour , there is danger that it will be lost for ever , as we might prove by many examples of apostates , who have become infidels and atheists . . this faith was delivered , deposited , committed to our trust , of which a strict account must be given how we have kept and used it . there are three things which above all others god expects we should keep most carefully and faithfully from being wronged : . his own name , which is put upon us . . his church . . his truths contained in scripture , tim. . . . this depositum is committed to the saints , in common ; not only to ministers or magistrates , but also to all believers . it is the common faith , wherein every believer hath his interest in common with the rest ; as all planters or inhabitants have in the commons that belong to a town , for which they will contend with any man that shall wrong them in that their interest . . salvation , and this faith are joyned , to teach us , to provide for our salvation by keeping the faith. faith and salvation are kept or lost together . . to wait patiently and constantly upon god , in doing and suffering his will : for god sometimes puts a long date to the performance of his promises . but gods deferring is no empty space but a time of fitting his church and people for the good things promised . whiles physick is working the time is not lost , though health be not yet recovered : for , when the sick humor is purged out , then comes health , see isaiah . . only be carefull , that whilest you wait , you do not cross your hope by sinning against him , upon whom you wait . true waiting is not a meer staying gods leasure , but a continuing in a gracious inoffensive course , till the good waited for be attained . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e valdè sunt cognatae sorores , fides & spes . dr. par. in heb. . notes for div a -e * mr. broughton . see the story at large , in jer. . quosdam deserit , quosdam deserere videtur . amb. in psal . . mr. duries representation of the state of the protestant churches in europe . bern. de cons . ad eugen. lib. . august . de verb. dom. a catechisme, or, the grounds and principles of christian religion set forth by way of question and answer wherein the summe of the doctrine of religion is comprised, familiarly opened, and clearly confirmed from the holy scriptures / by richard mather, teacher to the church at dorchester in new england. mather, richard, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing m ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing m estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a catechisme, or, the grounds and principles of christian religion set forth by way of question and answer wherein the summe of the doctrine of religion is comprised, familiarly opened, and clearly confirmed from the holy scriptures / by richard mather, teacher to the church at dorchester in new england. mather, richard, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for iohn rothwell, and are to be sold at his shop ..., london : . reproduction of original in bodleian library. eng congregational churches -- catechisms. congregational churches -- doctrines. catechisms -- congregational churches. a r (wing m ). civilwar no a catechisme, or, the grounds and principles of christian religion set forth by way of question and answer wherein the summe of the doctrine mather, richard b the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a catechisme or , the grounds and principles of christian religion , set forth by way of question and answer . wherein the summe of the doctrine of religion is comprised , familiarly opened , and clearly confirmed from the holy scriptures . by richard mather , teacher to the church at dorchester in new england . hold fast the form of sound words which thou hast heard of me in faith and love , which is in christ iesus . tim. . . when for the time ye ought to be teachers , ye have need that one teach you again the first principles of the oracles of god , and are become such as have need of milke , and not of strong meat . heb. . . london , printed for iohn rothwell , and are to be sold at his shop at the signe of the sunne and fountaine in pauls church-yard neer the little north-gate . . to the christian reader . the publique catechizing of children by way of familiar dialogue in short and plaine questions & answers , though it be scrupled by some , as if it wanted scripture warrant : yet such as acknowledge children to be members of christs kingdome and church , ( as all but antipaedobaptists doe ) mar. . . they cannot deny , that ( being members of christs house ) the stewards of his house must ( in faithfulnesse to christ , and them ) dispence a portion of spirituall food to them in due season , luke . . and evident it is by daily experience that long discourses ( sermon-wise ) runne over childrens heads ( like water over a mill , that grinds no meale at all ) and passe their capacity . no way of instruction is so proper for them , as that which the prophet describeth as most suitable to the understanding of children , line upon line , here a little and there a little ( isai . , . ) which can no way so conveniently be dispensed , as in briefe and familiar questions and answers put into their mouthes . but as this way of short and familiar catechizing is the fittest portion of young childrens bread : so there is a larger doctrine of catechisme , containing the whole body of divinity , which being solidly compacted together , and evidently confirmed from scripture light , and familiarly delivered to the apprehensions of gods people , it will be a seasonable portion for children of riper age : not only for their further building up in the faith and obedience of the doctrine of the gospel : but also for their establishment in the truth , that they be not pluckt away with the error of the wicked . hence luther had his major as well as his minor catechismus : and beza his larger confession of the faith as well as his shorter . yea the apostle paul ( whose example was now precedentiall , as being indeed authenticall and binding to imitation ) he committed to timothy a platform of sound and wholsome words , in faith and love : which he commanded and charged him , not onely to hold fast himself , tim. . . but likewise to commit the same to faithfull men , who might be able to teach others also , tim. . . this charge , as it then was ( and alwaies will be ) weighty , and seasonable : so never more important and necessary , then in this capritious and fastidious age , when men will nor suffer wholsome doctrine , but having itching eares and wits , doe turn away their hearts from the truth , and are given up to such empty and windy notions , wherein it is hard to judge whether arrogancy or ignorance be the more predominent : arrogance of higher attainements in christ , or ignorance of the true christ , and of life in him . now for casting in some helpe , ( by the grace of christ ) to prevent the spreading of such a gangrene of vanity and apostacy ; and to establish the people of god in the truth of the doctrine which is according to godlinesse : our reverend brother ( according to the precious talent of wisdom , and found judgement given unto him , &c. out of his faithfull love to the flock of christ ) he hath compiled this ensuing platform of wholsome doctrine , in way of a larger catechisme : wherein you shall finde the summe of the doctrine of christian religion , with pithy solidity and orderly dexterity digested together ; and with clear evidence of truth confirmed from the holy scriptures : and both with such familiar plainnesse of savory language , as ( by the blessing of christ ) the simple-honest-hearted reader may be informed and established in the highest truths , and the most intelligent may be refreshed and comforted , in revising and recounting the treasures of wisdome and knowledge which they have received and embraced , and the grounds upon which they have believed ; and all may be led on in the constant profession and practice of the faith and love which is in christ jesus . so we commend this ensuing treatise to the diligent perusall of the christian reader ; and both it and thee to the rich blessing of the grace of christ , and rest thine to serve in the faith and love of the gospel , john cotton . john wilson . the grounds and principles of christian religion . chap. i. of catechizing as an introduction to that which followeth . quest . what is catechizing ? ans. an instructing of the people in the grounds , or principles , or fundamentall points of religion . q. how are these catechisticall , and fundamentall points called in the holy scripture ? a. they are called thge foundation a , the first principles of the oracles of god b , the beginning of the doctrine of christ , c the entrance into gods word , d milke for babes , e and the form of wholsom words f . q. how may the warrantablenesse of this kind of teaching appeare ? a. both by expresse testimony of scripture g , and because catechising is nothing else but the drawing of the doctrine of religion into briefe summes ; and this hath plentifull warrant in the word h . q. what need is there of this kind of teaching ? a. the doctrine of catechisme being milke for babes , and the laying of the foundation , there cannot but be great need thereof ; for all men know the foundation must be layd afore there can be any building ; and babes must have milke afore they be fed with stronger meat . q. what is the benefit of catechising ? a. it is a means of well grounded knowledge , i and of profiting by sermons ; the want whereof being an hinderance that men cannot profit by other higher points of doctrine k . q. what else may be the benefit thereof ? a. it is a means to prevent apostasie l and the infection of errour , which they that are ignorant and unstable are apt to be seduced withall m . q. doe you then think that the doctrine of catechisme is wholsome and usefull to the soules of gods people ? a. as common and ordinary meats are most wholsome to the body , more then curious and dainty dishes : so the doctrine of catechisme is specially wholsome to the soule , and therefore is expresly called the form of wholsome words n . q. how should the doctrine of catechisme be handled ? a. briefly , many things being contracted into narrow summes , for the helping of memory o , and yet plainly p , as may be for the understanding of the simple . q. what are we to think of that usuall way of catechizing by questions and answers ? a. this way of teaching hath plentifull warrant in the scriptures q , and is suitable to the notation , and signifitation of the word catechising , which is taken from that returne or answer which is given in an eccho q. who are to be catechised ? a. all that have need thereof , as being not well instructed in these points ; and therefore little children r are to be catechised as soon as they shall be able to learn , and others also that are ignorant s or children in understanding . q. but is it not a shame for persons of yeers to be catechised ? a. it is a shame , and justly reproveable as a sinne , when persons grown to yeeres are so ignorant as to have need to be catechised . heb. . . , . cor. . . q. but how if they be not willing to be catechised ? a. it is much more a sinne and shame , if being ignorant they refuse to have their ignorance holpen by being instructed , psal. . . prov. , . & . . & . . q. but is it not indeed a reproach and shame unto a man to be catechised ? a. it is so farre from being a shame , that indeed it is the duty of all to be willing to learn u , and therefore not a shame unto any ; but the commendation of every one that is so willing x chap. . of the holy scriptures . q. you have shewed that to be instructed in the principles of religion , is both warrantable , needfull , and profitable ; tell likewise whence we must take direction for attaining wel-grounded knowledge in these principles , and all other points of religion ? a. out of those sacred books or writings , which are called the holy scriptures . q. hath the word and will of god alwaies been set down in writing ? a. no : moses was the first penman of holy scripture , who iived not till above two thousand yeeres after the creation . q. how was the will of god made known to his people in those times afore the scriptures were written ? a. by divers and sundry meanes a , as by visions b , by dreames c , by visible signes d , and by audible voyce e . q. why did god afterward cause his will to be set down in writing ? a. that it might be the better preserved f , that it might be conveyed to posterity g , and that it might be an infallible standard to try all doctrines by h . q. what are the books of holy scriptures ? a. the bookes of the old testament i as they are expressed in our bibles . q. vvhy are these writings called holy ? a. they are called holy k because they have an holy authour , which is god l , were written by pen-men who were holy men m , and because the doctrine which is conteined in them is all for the promoting of holinesse in us n . q. how may it he proved that these bookes are indeed the word of god ? a. because it is said they were given by inspiration of god o , and that the penmen of them spake as they were moved , or acted by the holy ghost p. q. how elseb a. by the wonderfull efficacy of them , as in other things , so in this , that they enter into the heart , for conviction , and humiliation q , and are mighty through god to convert and comfort the soule r . q. how else may it be proved that the scriptures are the word of god ? a. because they must either be the word of god , and have him for the author of them , or else some creature must be the author of them ; which latter is not possible . q. it is true indeed , if no creature be the author of them , then god the creator must ; but why may not some creature be their author ? a. a good creature , angel or man , could never be so impious , presumptuous , and blasphemous , as to father his own doings upon god , falsly making him the author of them ; and a wicked creature would never shew such care and zeale for the glory of god , such dislike and detestation of all kind of sinne , as the book of the scriptures doth . q. what particular uses are the scriptures profitable for ? a. for the teaching of true doctrine , and convincing the contrary , for correction or reformation of errors in life , and for instructing unto good duties , tim. . . q. are the scriptures a compleat and sufficient rule of direction for all points of faith and life ? a. yea ; for they were written for that very end , that we might believe on christ jesus , and believing have eternall life through his name s : and they are able to make one wise unto salvation through the faith which is in christ jesus t q. how else may this sufficiency and perfection of the scriptures appeare ? a. it may appeare also by this , in that by the scriptures , the man of god , who needs more abilities then other men , may be perfect , and throughly furnished unto all good works u ; and because it is a cursed thing to adde any thing thereto w . q. doth the knowledge of the scriptures belong unto all , or onely to the learned ? a. not onely magistrates x and ministers y , but every housholder z , yea simple people a ; yea women b , young men c , and children d , ought to be acquainted with the scriptures ; and therefore the knowledge of them doth belong unto all sorts of people . chap. . of god . q. you have shewed that the meanes of well grounded knowledge is the holy scripture ; tell me now what it is that the scriptures doe especially teach us ? a. they teach us especially the saving knowledge of god , and of jesus christ . a q. how may it be proved that there is a god ? a. the scriptures doe abundantly , and plainly testifie it b ; and the creation of the world doth shew it c . q. how doth the creation of the world shew that there is a god ? a. even as a faire and sumptuous building doth shew that some body was the maker of it , so this great world doth shew there was a maker of it which is god . heb. . . q. but why might not the world be without beginning and have its being of it selfe ? a. because then the world should be god , for that which hath its being of its self , and is without beginning , is god . q. how else may it be proved that there is a god ? a. the succession of day , and night , and other seasons with the sustentation , and ordering of the creatures and the motions of them , doth plainly witnesse that there is a god . psal. . . . acts. . . amos. . & . . q. how may this be expressed in some familiar comparison . a. when a ship is seene at sea with her sayles spread , and her passage rightly guided unto the harbour , it appeareth thereby , that there were men that guided the same ; for if there were no men , there would never be any ships upon the sea : even so the preservation of the great ship of the world , and the guidance of its motions , doth evidently shew , that there is a god by whom the same is preserved , and guided . q. what else may be a further proofe that there is a god ? a. that there is a god is manifestly declared by the strange and wonderfull plagues and judgments , that sometimes are inflicted upon notorious sinners upon earth . exod. . . & . . psal. . . & . . : & . q. what may be thought of those accusations , and terrors of conscience , that sometimes are found in men , upon the committing of haynous sins , though knowne to no man living , but to the sinner himselfe ? a. this also is another testimony that there is a god , before whose judgment seate a man must answer for his deedes ; for otherwise why should a man be afraid where no feare is ? rom. . . isa. . . psal. . . & . . q. how many gods are there ? a. no more but one . deut . , & . . isa . . . & . . . cor . . . eph. . . q. why may there not be more gods then one ? a. because that is contrary to the nature of god which is to be infinite , and everlasting , that is the first , and the last ; now there cannot be many infinites , nor many firsts and lasts , but one only . q. how else doth the nature of god shew that there can be no more but one god ? a. it is the nature of god to have his being of himselfe , and so give being to whatsoever else hath being ; for so much is signified by the word iehovah . exod. . . & . . & . . q. and how doth this prove that there can be no more but one god ? a. because if there were many gods , then either they must one give being to the other , or each one have his being of himself , both which are utterly impossible . q. why might not one of them give being to the other ? a. because then that other could not bee god , as not having his being of himselfe . q. and why might they not be many gods , each one having his god-head of himselfe ? a. because then none of them could be god , as not giving being to all others which had being . q. though there be but one god , yet is there not more persons , or subsistences in the godhead then one ? a. yes ; the scriptures doe apparently witnesse that in the unity of the divine essence , there is a plurality of the divine persons . gen. . . & . . & . . isai. . . & . , . q. how many are the persons in the godhead ? a. they are three , the father , the son , and the holy-ghost , math. . , . & . . ioh. . , . & . . cor. , . gal. . . ioh. . . q. whether are these three , the father , the son , and the holy-ghost severall , and distinct persons , or onely severall names , and titles of one , and the same person . a. the father is not the sonne but another person ; a the son is not the father , but another ; b and the holy ghost is neither the father nor the son , but another ; c and therefore they are each distinct from other as severall , and distinct persons . q. what are the personall properties , whereby each is distinguished from other ? a. the property of the father is to beget the son d , the property of the son to be begotten of the father e , the property of the holy ghost to proceed from the father and the son f , who is therefore called the spirit of the father g , and of the son h , q. are every one of these persons god ? a. yea : of the father there is lesse question , and the scriptures doe witnesse that the son is god i , and also that the holy ghost is god k , q. you have shewed that there is a god , and and onely one god , and three persons ; tell me now what god is ? a. god is so infinite , and incomprehensible , that no creature is able fully to comprehend or know him . exod. . . . iob. . . & . , , . tim. . . q. how then may we conceive of him ? a. as he hath revealed himselfe to us l , in his back parts m , which are his divine attributes n , and by his workes o , q. what are those attributes or back parts of god ? a. wisdome p power , q goodnesse r , truth s , justice t , mercy u , and the like , in all which he is infinite w , and everlasting x . q. what are the works of god ? a. they are three , decree , creation , and providence . chap. . of gods decree . q. what is gods decree ? a. that whereby he hath before determined and decreed with himselfe whatsoever shall come to passe . q. doe you say that gods decree reacheth to all things whatsoever cometh to passe in time ? a. yea all things whatsoever have been , are , or that shall be hereafter , were before decreed , and determined by god . eph. . . act. . . q. what are some of the principall things that are so decreed ? a. things that are most casuall a things that are most freely done by the creature , b and things wherein the creature commits abundance of sin c , q. what else ? a. such things as seeme small and little d , are also great , and speciall events . q. what are some of those great and speciall events that are decreed by the lord ? a. the comming and death of christ , and all the workes of his mediatorship e , the salvation of the godly f , the damnation of the wicked g , the day of every mans particular death h and the day of the generall judgement i , q. when were all these things decreed by god ? a. before the world was created , even from everlasting , cor. . . eph. . . & . . pet. . . tim. . . q. what was the cause of gods decrees ? a. the cause that moved him to decree was nothing foreseene in the creature , but his own will , and good pleasure . rom. . . . matth. . . . but sith some are appointed by the decree of god to damnation , if his will be the cause of that decree , how is that just ? yea , it is most just and righteous notwitstanding , rom. , . q. how may that appeare . a. because the will of god is the rule of all righteousnesse k , and because the lord hath absolute power over all creatures , as the potter hath power over his clay l . q how else may the justice of the lord in his decrees appeare ? a. because what ever be the lords decree , there is no man actually condemned till he be first defiled with sinne . rom. . , . & . , . genes . . . q. vvhether is the decree of god certaine , and immutable , or such as may be changed , and not take effect ? a. it is altogether unchangeable , and shall surely be accomplished , psal. . . & . . isa. . . & . . rom. . . q. if the decree of god be unchangeable , then what needs man to be carefull in the use of means for his owne good ? a. yes , the meanes must be used notwithstanding god decree ; and that partly because the meanes are appointed , and decreed of god as well as the end m ; and partly because the revealed will and command of god is our rule , and not his secret decree n. q. do you think then that gods decree doth not excuse men from blame in the sinnes which they do commit . a. it doth not excuse them at all o , and the reason is because the decree of god infuseth no corruption into the hearts of men , not constraineth them to sinne against their will , but they sinne most freely , and willing of their own accord . q is the decree of god secret within himselfe or revealed and made knowne ? a. it is secret within himselfe , till himselfe do reveale it , and therefore further then so it is not to be searched into . rom. . . cor. ● . deut. . . q. how doth god reveale his decree ? a. partly by his word , wherein this doctrine is plainly , and plentifully taught p , and partly by the execution and accomplishment of things in time . q. how doth the execution or accomplishment of things reveale gods decree ? a. yea very clearely , because nothing was decreed but he executes the same in time ; and whatsoever is brought to passe in time was determined and decreed afore : ephes. . . psal. . . isa. . . q. how many wayes may the decree of god be considered ? a. as respecting all the creatures in generall , or as it respects the reasonable creatures , angels and men , in speciall . q. what are the parts of gods decree as it respecteth man ? a. election and reprobation . q. what is election ? a. it is the decree of god or his predestination q whereby of his owne free love r and good pleasure s he hath from everlasting t appointed and chosen some certaine men u to the obtaining of grace w , and salvation x by christ y , for the praise of his glorious grace z , q. and what is reprobation ? a. it is the decree of god wherby of his meere will and good pleasure a some certaine men b are not elected and ordained to life c , but on the on the contrary are appointed to destruction or damnation d to be inflicted upon them for their sinne e , to the praise of gods glorious justice f , chap. . of creation . q. had this world a beginning by creation , or was it from everlasting ? a. the scripture in many places , and speci ▪ in the first of gen. doth declare that the world was not from everlasting , but had a beginning by the lords creating of it , heb. . . reu. . . prov. . . &c. ps. . . eph. . . q. who was it that created the world ? a. god that is without beginning , and hath his being of himselfe , he it was who gave beginning , and being to the world . gen. . . act. . . isay. . . & . . q. whether was this the worke of the father , or of the sonne , or of the holyghost ? a. of every person in the trinity ; not of the father onely but also of the sonne a , and of the holyghost b . q. what are the things that are created ? a. all things without exception , that have a being , except god onely who did create them , act. . . & . . & , . gen. . . rev. . . q. doe you meane that the third heaven was also created by god ? a. yes , for that heaven is said to be a city whose builder , & maker is god , heb. . . . q. but what thinke you of the angels , were they also created by god ? a. angels are the cheife of those invisible things , those thrones and dominions , principalities , and powers , which are expressely mentioned to have been created by the lord . col. . . q. wherewith did god make the world ? a. though men must have tooles , and instruments , and sometimes more hands then their owne for the effecting of works ; yet when the lord made the world , with him it was not so . q. how then or wherewith did he make it ? a. he made it himselfe alone c , and without any other meanes but onely by his word d . q whereof or of what materials did he create the world ? a. not of any praeexistent matter , but of nothing heb. . . rom. . . q. how do you meane when you say that all things are made of nothing ? for the body of adam was made of the dust of the ground , and fishes of the waters , and therefore it may seeme all things were not made of nothing . a. i meane that some things were made of nothing without any matter at all , and that the first matter whereof other things were made , was not eternall , but was immediately created of nothing ; and that that first matter was so in ▪ disposed to be the things that were made of it , that no lesse a power was seene in making other things out of it , then in making that first matter , or the lumpe it selfe ; as it was as great a worke to bring great whales out of the waters , as to bring forth the water out of nothing ; and in these respects , all things may be said to be made of nothing . q. in what time was the world created ? a. every particular thing quickly , and as it were in an instant e , and the whole in the space of six dayes f . q. what was the worke of each day ? a. the worke of the first day was heaven , the darke and deepe lumpe of earth , and waters , and light . q. what of the second day ? a. the firmament which is called heaven . q. what of the third day ? a. the gathering of the waters together , which is called sea , the drying of the earth , and making it fruitfull . q. what of the three last dayes ? a. on the fourth day sun , moone , and starres , on the fifth day fish , and foule , on the sixt day beasts and creeping things , and man . q. when was the highest heaven , and angels created ? a. most likely on the first day , gen. . . iob. . q. why was god sixe dayes in making the world ? a. not because hee needed so much time , but that we might more distinctly consider of his workes . q. why did god make the world ? a. not because he needed it , for he is alsufficient in and of himselfe , not needing any thing , but giving into all life , and breath , and all things act. . . q. did he make it out of necessity of nature , ot because he could not choose ? a. no , for had he pleased , he might have made it sooner , or later , or not at all . q. why then did he make it ? a. because it so pleased him , revel. . . q. for what end did god make the world ? a. for the declaration of his owne glory . prov. . . rom. . . col. . . q. what was the state of all things by creation ? a. god looked upon all the worke which he had made , and behold it was very good . gen. . . chap. . of gods providence . q. what is the providence of god ? a. that whereby god doth preserve , and governe , dispose , and order all creatures with all their actions . a. what scriptures do shew that there is such a providence of god ? q. many , and namely these , ioh. . . eph. . . act. . . . lam. . : eccles. . . &c. q. how els may the same be proved ? a. such is the wisedme , and knowledge of god , that nothing can come to passe , but he must needes know it , and such is his omnipotency , that what he absolutely would not have to be , he is able to hinder it , and therefore nothing falls out but he seeth it , and by his providence hath an hand therein . q. what are the parts of gods providence , or the severall acts of it ? a. preserving of the creatures a and goverment of them b . q. what need is there of the providence of god for the preservation of creatures ? a. yes very much , aswell as of his power for the creating of them . q. how may that appeare ? a. not onely because making , and preserving of the creatures , are coupled together as acts of the same power c . but also because otherwise the creatures could not continue in being , but would soon returne to nothing d . q. and why must the government of the creatures be also ascribed to god ? a. partly because it would argue inperfection in god , if he should make creatures , and leave the government of them to others ; and partly because the creatures would never certainly ▪ attaine the ends for which they were created , if they were not governed by the same power by which they were created . q. vvhat are the things whereto the providence of god doth extend ? a. all things without exception of any . rom. . eph. . q. vvhat are some sorts of them ? all persons , and all living things , though never so meane e , and all the very accidents , and circumstances of actions , as the times , and seasons of them f and the like . q. what kinde of actions of the creatures are ordered by the providence of god ? a. all kinde of actions , whether they be great or small g , whether they be of kindnesse , and favour unto men , or of judgement & correction h . vvhat else ? a. actions that are most contingent , and casuall i , and actions wherein the creature is most sinfull , and wicked k . q. how farre forth hath god an hand by his providence in the sinfull actions of creatures ? a. partly by permitting sinne to enter , when he could easily hinder the same , if he pleased ; and partly by disposing and ordering of it for good ends . a. how doth god permit the entrance of sinne ? a. partly by leaving men to themselves , not bestowing upon them his grace , that might keep them from sinne l , and partly by letting sathan loose upon them to be blinded , and mis-led by his temptations m . q. how is this just that god should deny the assistance of his grace , and leave men to themselves , and the temptations of sathan ? a yes , it is very just , because he is debtor to none , but may bestow his grace where , and upon whom he pleaseth . rom. . . mat. . . q. vvhat else may be said for the cleering of gods justice herein ? a. god being the judge of the world may punish sinne with what punishment he seeth meete , and so by giving sinners up unto further sinne , ps. ● . . . rom. . , , . &c. thes . , . q vvhat may be some instance of gods disposing and ordering of sinne for good ends ? a. the sinne of joseph brethren when they sold him into egypt , which god disposed , and ordered for the preserving of iacob and his house in time of famine . gen . . . & . . q vvhat else ? a. the sinne of amnon , and absolom which god disposed and ordered for the correction , and humiliation of david . sam. . . , . q. vvhat may be a third instance hereof ? a. the great sinne , and wickednesse of them who put the lord jesus christ to death , as fowle a fact as the sunne ever saw , and yet even this did the lord dispose , and order for the redemption and salvation of his elect , act. . . & . , . q. but if god by his providence have a stroake in ordering of the sinnes of men , is not god himselfe then tainted with sinne ? a. no , by no meanes : for god cannot be tempted of evill n , neither doth any sin proceed from him o , but contrarily he is then holy , holy , holy , when he gives men up to be hardened in their sinnes p . q. vvhat else may be said for the further learning of this truth ? a. god is so far from being tainted hereby with the uncleannesse of sinne , that his wisdome and goodnesse doth hereby the more appear , in that he can worke good by evill instruments , and make even sinne it selfe to seeme to his glory . q but whether may not sinners then hereby have excuse for themselves , and lay the blame of their sin upon god ? a. if god did infuse corruption into the hearts of men , or incline them or command them to sins who else were unwilling so to doe , then there were more colour for this demand ; but this cannot be affirmed with truth . q. vvhat then is truth in this case ? a. god made man altogether righteous and upright q , and gives men an holy commandement that prohibits all sinne r , and yet they sinne of their owne accord s , and therefore their destruction ( and so their sinne as cause thereof ) is of themselves t . q. may not this be illustrated by some similitude , to shew how god may have an hand in the evill actions of men , and yet all the sinfulnesse of the action be wholly of the creature and not of god ? a. as he that spurs a lame horse , is the cause of his going , but not of his halting , which is from the beast himselfe ; and as the sunne shining on a carcasse , or a dunghill , is the cause of the savour , but not of the stench which is from the carcasse it selfe ; even so it is in this case . q. how or in what manner doth the providence of god put forth , and shew it selfe ? a. most freely and as it pleaseth him u , most commonly in the ordinary use of the means w and sometimes it pleaseth him to work without meanes x . q. how else doth the providence of god put forth and shew itselfe ? a. sometimes by working great and mighty workes by weake meanes y , sometimes by disapppointing the best and the most probable meanes that they become ineffectuall , z ; and sometimes by working contrary to all meanes , and the naturall course of things a . chap. . of angels . q. what are the kindes of gods providence ? a. it is either generall towards all creatures , or specially towards some . q. what are those speciall creatures which the providence of god doth extend unto ? a. angels and men . q. vvhat is the nature of angels ? a. they are spirits b or spirituall substances , and therefore invisible that they cannot be seene with bodily eyes , no more then the wind that bloweth , or the soules of men , nor are they preserved by sleep and food , & raiment , as living bodyes are c ; and yet they are immortall , and cannot dye d . q. vvhat else are we to know concerning the nature of angels ? a. that they are creatures of excellent strength e , great acutenesse of understanding f , very swift and speedy in their motion g , and by creation very pure , and holy h . q. what is the number of angels ? a. though they be not infinite , yet their number is very great , and to us they are innumerable . dan. . . ps. . . mat. . . heb. . q. what end and office were they created for ? a. to celebrate the lords praises , and to execute his commands i , specially towards the heirs of salvation k . q do the angels continue in that estate wherein they were first created ? a. not all , for a great many fell away from that happy condition who are now become devils , ioh. . . . pet. . . iude . q. may the rest also fall away , and perish with the devils ? a. no , because they are elected of god , and so for ever upholden in that good estate . tim. . . chap. . of the estate of man in innocency by creation . q how doth the providence of god exercise it selfe towards man ? a. in a fourefold estate ; the state of innocency by creation afore the fall , the state of corruption by and since the fall , the state of grace in this world , and the state of glory in the world to come . q what was the state of man in innocency by by creation afore the fall ? a. god did as it were deliberate with himselfe , the father son and spirit consulting together about the making of man a , and therefore it must needs be that the state of man at the first by gods creating of him , was very excellent . q. wherein did his cheife excellency consist ? a. in that he was made in the iikenesse and image of god . gen . . . q. what was that image of god ? a. principally it stood in knowledge , righteousnesse , and true holynesse col. . . eph. . . eccles. . . q. what was the knowledge that man was indued withall in that estate ? a. he did then truely , and distinctly know god , and the will of god b , with the nature of the creatures c , and his own present happinesse d . q. what was that holynesse and righteousnesse ? a. that his will , and affections , with his whole heart and soule , was exactly conformable to the revealed will of god . q. did not man in that state besides this conformty to god enjoy communion with god ? a. yes , at that time there was great amity , and love betweene god and man e , all the destance that is now being risen since as the effect and fruit of sinne . q did not the place where man was then put , something set forth his happinesse in that estate ? a. yes ; for he was placed in paradise which was an excellent garden planted by god himselfe , and abounding with all delight , and pleasures . gen. . , , , . q but seeing man was to worke and labour in the garden in dressing and keeping it , how doth this agree with happinesse ? a. yea very well , because happinesse doth not consist in idlenesse ; and as for his labour , it then was , and alwayes should have bin without paine , and wearinesse , if man had continued in that estate . q. what was mans condition at that time in respect of food and raiment ? a. the earth at that time was furnished with plenty , and variety of wholesome and delightsome fruits , and he had liberty to eat of them all , except onely of the tree of knowledge of good and evill . gen. . . q. his food then was excellent ; but what was his apparrell ? a. such was the strength and beauty of his body outwardly , and the perfection of gods image , wherewith he was clothed inwardly , that he had no neede of other bodily apparrell either in respect of shame or season of weather , and therefore he lived naked . gen. . . q. what was his condition in respect of other creatures ? a. all the fishes of the sea , all the birds of the ayre , and beasts of the field were all of them subject to his dominion , and rule , gen. . , , and . , . q. but what helpe had he in his condition against solitarinesse ? a. the lord saw it was not good for a man to be alone , and that amongst all the other creatures there was not a meete helpe for him , and therefore of a ribbe of his side he made a woman and brought her to the man to be his wife . gen. . . &c. q but why was man created last of all ceatures ? a. this also doth declare his excellency and happy estate by creation ; for being made last it appeareth thereby , that he was under god the end for which the other creatures were made , and so was more excellent then they , as the end is more excellent then the meanes . q how else did the time of mans creation declare his happinesse ? a. it appeareth thereby , that god would not make him before he had first provided for him , but brought him into the world as into a great store-house already fully furnished with all variety of good things that might be for his service and comfort . chap. . of the fall of our first parents . q. you have already shewed the state of man in innocency by creation , what things are to be dered concerning the state of corruption ? the beginning thereof which was the fall of our first parents , and the consequents of that fall in respect of sinne and punnishment . q. what scriptures do prove that adam and eve did fall from that state of innoceney and purity where in they were created ? a. many , but most especially the third chap. of genes . eccles. . . isa. . . rom. . , , . . tim. , . q who did fall ? a. first eve a , then adam b , and in him all man kind c that proceed from adam after the ordinary way . q. how did man fall ? a. by transgression d and disobedience e to the commandement of god , which was that they should not eate of the tree of knowledge of good and evill f . q wherein was this such a great offence ? for it may seeme a small matter to eat an apple or other fruit forbidden . a. this sinne was not small , but very great , as comprehending in it an heape and multitude of many other hainous evills . q what are some of those evils comprehended in this sinne ? a. there was great umbeliefe to doubt of the truth of gods threatning , there was great idolatry in preferring the counsell of satan afore the commandment of god , and great blasphemy in yeelding to satan , when he said god forbade them that tree because he did envy their happinesse . q. what evill else was there in that offence ? a. there was discontent with their estate , though it was exceeding good , abominable pride that would be like unto god , and horrible unthankfulnesse to sinne against god that had so highly advanced them . q. what further evil was in it ? a. there was curiosity in desiring to know more then god would have them to know ; also also they sinned needlesly and wilfully , that commandement being so equall and easie to have beene kept . q. how may that appeare ? a. because man then had no inward concupiscence or corruption of nature , as we now have , that could move him to breake the commandement , nor was he any necessitated thereto through any want , having such variety and abundance of other fruits , whereof he might freely eat . q. what may be a last particular to shew the hainousnesse of this first offence ? a. man shewed himselfe herein to be wretchedly carelesse of the good of his posterity , to whom in this act he was both unkind and cruell . q. how may that appeare ? a. in that by this meanes he brought sinne and misery upon them all . rom. . , , . cor. . . q. why should this sinne of adam bring the guilt of sinne and misery upon all his posterity ? a. because he stood at this time as a publike person in the roome of all mankind , we being all considered in him as members in the head , as children in his loines , as debtors in our surety , and as branches in our roote . q. vvhat was the cause of this great and lamentable offence ? a. it was not any weaknesse or want of power in man to stand ; for being made in gods image he might have stood if he would . q. you thinke then he was not compelled and forced to sinne and breake the commandment ? a. god was so farre from forcing him to sin that he gave him power to have obeyed , and threatned him with death in case of disobedience . q. but might not satan compell him to it ? a. satan could doe nothing against him by compulsion or constraint , and therefore doth onely assault him by crafty and subtill perswasions ? q. vvhat then was the cause of this their sinne ? a. the principall cause was man himselfe in abusing his owne freewill , to receive the temptation , which he might have resisted if he would , eccles. . . q how farre was satan a cause of that first offence ? a. though he could not constraine man to sinne without his own consent , yet he was justly to be blamed for that sinne of man , in that it was through his entisements that man was drawen unto it . q. how did he entise man to it ? a. by abusing the serpent to seduce the woman , and the helpe of the woman to seduce the man . gen. . , . q. vvhat are the effects and fruits of his fall ? a. by means of this fall both the serpent and satan became accursed , and adam and eve and their posterity plunged into a depth of sin and misery . gen. . chap. . of sinne ; the definition of it , and the distribution into original and actual . q. what is sinne ? a. transgression of the moral law of god , by a creature that is bound to keepe it ? q. why is sin said to be a transgression of the law ? a. because the apostle iohn doth expresly so call it a , and elsewhere it is said where there is no law b , there is no transgression q. why say you that sinne is a transgression of the law of god onely ? for are not transgressions of the lawfull commandements of parents and other superiors , sins also ? a. yes so farre as they tend to the dishonour of superiors , such transgressions are also sins ; but the reason of that is because obedience to the lawfull commands of superiors is enjoyned in the fifth commandement of the law of god , in which respect god is said to be the onely law-giver iam. . . q. but why doe you make sinne a transgression onely of the morall law , sith unbeliefe and impenitency though they be against the gospel , are also sinnes , and so were violations of the ceremoniall law that was given to israel by moses ? a. violation of the ceremonies by the people of israel was a sinne , because the observation of them was enjoyned to that people in the second commandement of the moral law , like a●… the observation of baptisme and the lords supper are now enjoyned to christians by the same commandement . q and why are unbeliefe and impenitenci●… sinnes ? a. though these be directly against the gospel , yet they are also sinnes when they are found in them to whom the gospels comes , as being against the first commandement of the law , which enioynes obedience to god in whatsoever he hath shewed or shall shew to be his wil . q. why do you make sinne a transgression of the law by a creature ? a. because god the creator may do things forbidden in the law , and yet not sinne , as to kill and destroy ; because the law is not a rule to him but to us , his owne will being his rule , eph. . . ps. . . q. why is it added , by a creature bound unto it ? a. because though angels may sinne , yet many things in the law , specially in the fifth and seventh commandement are not applyable to angels ; and as for other creatures , the law is no rule to them at all . q. who among men are tainted with sinne ? a. all that are meere men , none excepted eccles. . . rom. . . and . . q. how many sorts of sinne are there ? a. besides that first offence of eating the forbidden fruit , there is the corruption of nature which is usually called originall sinne , and the sinnes of life which are usually called actuall . q. what is the nature of originall sinne ? wherein doth it consist ? a. it consists in the losse of gods image wherein man was created at the first c , and in a contrary vitiousnesse instead thereof d , q. what is the measure or greatnesse of this sinne ? a. it contaynes not onely some one or few particular evils , but a masse of all iniquities , even the most abominable that can be named or imagined rom. . . . &c. q. how farre doth this sinne extend ? a. it overspreads the whole race of mankind as a contagious leprosie and epidemical disease e , and infects all the powers and parts both of soule and body f . q. how is this sinne propagated ? a. it is conveyed from parents to children not by imitation but by generation ; gen . . psal. . . iob . . ioh. . . q. what do you understand by actuall sinnes ? a. all omissions of good g . and failing in the maner of doing it h , and all committing evill whether in thoughts i , words k , or deeds l , against any of the commandements of god . q. who are guilty of actuall sinnes ? a. all the children of men m ; and they that sinne the least , yet doubtlesse would do more if the lord did not restraine them n . q. but though all men be thus defiled with sinne , yet may not a naturall man doe some things that are good ? a. hee may do things that are good for the act or matter of them o , but his person not being accepted p , and hsi heart q . so exceedingly corrupted , therefore all that he doth as it proceeds from him , is corrupt also and so most odious unto god r , chap. . of the punishment of sinne . q. sith all the children of men are thus wofully defiled with sinne , what punnishment is due by reason of the sinne ? a. in one word all kind of death a , and cursednesse b . which in the particulars containes all the plagues that are written in gods book c , and many more which are not written d . q. what are the generall heads of those plagues ? a. they are temporall , and spirituall , and eternall . q. what are the temporall plagues . a. the cursing of the earth e , and the creatures made subject to vanity f , and the bodyes of men become subject to plagues and paines and death g . q. what else ? a. in name ignominie and reproach , both alive and after death h , and calamities in mens wives , children and friends i q. vvhat other outward miseries are there ? a. in the outward estate poverty and losses k , and their very blessings to be turned into curses l , q. vvhat are the spiritual miseries ? a. the losse of gods image and all comfortable communion with him m , with bondage to the divell n , and a necessity of sinning o . q. vvhat else are the spirituall miseries ? a. vvhen men are given up unto more sinn p as unto hardnesse of heart q , blindnesse of mind r and strong delusions s , q vvhat is the eternall miserie ? a. damnation and destruction in another world , thes. . . iob. . . q. vvherein doth that consist ? a. in being deprived of all good , and in the contrary sense and feeling of evill . q. vvhat good shall the wicked be then deprived of ? a. they shall then be deprived of the favourable presence of god t , of the joyes of heaven u , of the society of the saints w , and all comfort of the creature , x , q. and what evill shall they then have the feeling of ? a. they shall feele unspeakeable torment both in soule and body , mar. . , , . luk. . , . q. vvhat will be the effect thereof ? a. it wil cause weeping & gnashing of teeth y , the former through griefe and dolour , and both of them through indignation and despaire q. if they must be deprived of heaven , and of the presence of god and of his saints , what place and company shall they be in ? a. they shall be in hell as in a prison z , or deepe pitt a , or lake that burneth with fire and brimstone b , and their company shall be no other but the divell and his angels c . q. this punishment of the damned is in it selfe most dreadfull and terrible , but how long shall it continue ? a. the thing were something lesse grievous , if this misery would ever have an end ; but this is the aggravation of it that it must be everlasting , thes. . . matth. . . . matth. . , . chap. . of mans deliverance . q. having spoken of the state of man by creation , and his estate of corruption , let us now come to the third estate , the state of grace in this life ; and first tell me whether there be any ability in man to deliver himselfe from his sinfull and miserable estate ? a. none at all ; because man being dead in trespasses and sinnes , hath no more ability to recover himselfe to spirituall life , then he that is bodily dead to recover himselfe to bodily life . eph. . . & . . q. how else may this inability of man appeare ? a. man of himselfe is without strength a to any thing that is good ; and moreover , if he had power unto it , yet he hath no will to seek after god b , but to depart further and further from him c yea to expresse all enmity against him d q. what may be a further reason to shew that man cannot deliver himselfe ? a. man being a creature , is but finite ; and the majesty and justice of god which by sinne is offended and wronged , is infinite . q. what doe you infer from thence ? a. because there can be nothing in a finite sinning nature to satisfie an infinite offended majesty ; but such a nature must be ever in satisfying , and never have satisfied ; therefore it was not possible that man should deliver himselfe from his sinfull and miserable estate . q if man could not deliver himselfe , might be not be delivered by some other creature ? a. there is no man that can give a ransom to redeem another , so much as from bodily death e and much lesse from spiritual and eternal death . q. but if one man could not redeem another , what doe you say of other creatures ? a. other creatures are none of them of the same nature with man , and are all of them but finite , even the angels themselves ; and therefore none of them can make satisfaction to the infinite majesty of god . q. if infinite justice must needs he satisfied , and neither man nor other creature are able to doe this ; how then was there any possibility that man should ever be delivered from this wretched estate ? a. the mercy of god is so infinite that he might be willing that man should be delivered , and his wisdome such that he could finde out some way and means of deliverance ; and his power such that he was able to accomplish the way which his wisdom should devise ; and therefore there was a possibility that man should be delivered . q. but whether is there any way of deliverance already found out , and man actually recovered ? a. yes , the lord hath wrought redemption , and raised up an horne of salvation for his people , psal. . . luke . . q. is god himselfe then the authour of mans deliverance ? a. mans misery being sinne against god , and punishment from god , therefore god onely must be the authour of his deliverance , if he ever be delivered . q. what moved god to work mans deliverance ? a. not because he had any need of man e , for he could have been absolute and alsufficient of himselfe , if all men had perished everlastingly , as he was before man had any being . c q. did god procure mans deliverance , because man did so deserve ? a. man deserved it not , but the contrary , because he fell wilfully from that happy estate wherein he was created , whenas he might have continued happy if he would : therefore it had been no unrighteous thing if god had left him in that misery whereinto he had brought himselfe , pro. . . q. did the lord worke the deliverance of man , because man did importunately seek and sue unto him for the same ? a. man did not seek and sue unto god at all , but fled from him , gen . . rom. . . and if he had sought unto god for helpe , god was not bound to afford it ; and how much lesse when he sought it not ? q. if god did not worke the deliverance of man because himselfe had need of it , or because man did desire it , what then was the cause that moved him to it ? a. onely his free grace , mercy , and love , iohn . . eph. . , . titus . , . q. what is the true way and means of deliverance ? a. onely the lord jesus christ , genes . . acts . . iohn . . chap. . of the person of christ , and his divine and humane nature ? q. what things are to be known and believed concerning christ ? a. his person , his office , his actions , the benefits that come by him , and the means how we are made partakers of him and all his benefits . q. what is his person ? a. it is god and man united together in one person . q. how may it be proved that christ is god ? a. by sundry places of scripture , wherein he is expresly so called , isa. . . iohn . . rom. . . phil. . . iohn . ● . q. how else ? a. because eternity a omnipotency b omniscience c and omnipresence d which are properties peculiar to god , are all of them ascribed unto christ . q. how else may the godhead of christ be proved ? a. because the creation of the world e the forgivenesse of sinnes f the working of miracles g which are workes that can be done by none but god , are all of them ascribed to him as the authour of them ; and because he is made a lawfull object of divine worship h q. why was it requisite that christ our saviour should be god ? a. that he might beare the weight of gods wrath without sinking under the same i that he might overcome death k and his sufferings might be of sufficient worth and value to satisfie the infinite justice of god l q. is christ also truely partaker of the nature of man ? a. yes , for he is frequently called man , and the sonne of man m and said to be made flesh n and partaker of flesh and blood o q. why was it requisite that he should be man ? a. that he might suffer death for us p sanctisie our nature q and that we might have accesse with boldnesse unto god r q. but sith he was god from everlasting , how came be to be man also ? a. when the fulnesse of time was come s he became man , not after the ordinary and usuall way of generation by man and woman together , but he was conceived by the holy ghost in the womb of a virgin , without a father t q. sith there are two natures in christ , the divine and humane , whether is christ then two persons ? a. by no means , but one onely , cor. . . tim. . . q. but is not christ a person in respect of his godhead ? a. yes , the second person in the blessed trinity . q. is not another man who hath the whole nature of man in him , both body and soule , a perfect person ? a. yes , it is even so . q. why then is not the humane nature in christ a distinct person ? a. because it never had subsisting and being of it selfe , but in the person of the son of god being assumed unto it from the first moment of its being , heb. . . q. if both the humane and divine nature be in christ , and yet christ but one person ; is then the godhead become the manhood , and the manhood the godhead ? a. not so ; this union of two natures in one person doth not confound the two natures , nor destroy the properties of either ; but these still remain unconfounded and distinct in that one person . chap. . of the office of christ to be a mediator . q. having spoken of the person of christ , tell in the next place what is christs office ? a. his office in the generall is to be a mediator between god and man , to worke reconciliation betwixt them . tim. . cor. . , . q. what need was there of such a mediator ? a. very much need , because by the sinne of man there was now grown enmity between them , god being offended with man , and man being enemy to god . rom. . , . col. . . q. is christ the onely mediator ? or are there not others that may be mediators also ? a. properly there is no other mediator between god and man but christ onely , tim. . . iohn . . q. who gave christ a commission or calling to the office of a mediator ? a. as no man can lawfully intrude himselfe into any office without a lawfull calling , no more did christ intrude himselfe into the office of a mediator , but was lawfully called and authorized thereunto by the father , isa . , . iohn . . & . . heb. . , . q. how was he furnished with gifts and abilities for discharge of this office ? a. as god never calleth any to any office , but he gives them gifts requisite thereto : so christ was furnished with all wisdom & knowledge , and other gifts of the spirit , that might fully fit him for his office of mediator , col. . . isa. . . & . . & heb. . . iohn . . q. whether is christ mediator according to his humane nature , or according to his divine ? a. the office of mediation belongeth to whole christ , as he is god and man , and not in respect of either nature alone . q. how may that appeare ? a. a mediator should be a fit and middle person to deale between two that are at variance : but if our mediator be considered as god onely , he should then be too high to treat with man , and had he been man only he should have been too low for god . q. vvhat may be a further reason thereof ? a. if the acts of his mediation doe proceed from him , being considered onely as god , they then cannot be applicatory unto us ; and if they proceed from him onely as man , they then cannot be of sufficient value to be satisfactory unto god . q. doe you then think that in the execution of his office of mediator both the natures doe joyntly concurre ? a. it is even so indeed ; god-man , whose christ is our mediator . q. how long hath christ had this office ? a. in respect of gods decree he was appointed to it from eternity a in respect of vertue and efficacy he was mediator from the beginning of the world when need was b q. but when was he manifested in the flesh ? a. in respect of his manifestation in the flesh , he was given in the fulnesse of time in these latter daies , pet. . . gal. . . tim. . . q. vvhat is the effect and benefit of his mediatorship ? a. hereby god and man that were at enmity are reconciled together againe , and made one , col. . . eph. . . & . , . chap. . of the covenant between god and man , the covenant of worke , and the covenant of grace , and the difference between them . q. how doth christ as mediator reconcile god and man again ? a. by making a new covenant and agreement betwixt them , which is called the covenant of grace ? q. is the covenant of grace made with respect to christ ? a. yea , had it not been for christs sake , and through his mediation , god would never have made such covenant with man . q. how may that be proved ? a. this covenant is said to be confirmed in christ a and christ is said to be the mediator of the covenant b the angell of the covenant c and sometimes the covenant it selfe d q what is this covenant of grace . a. that wherein god for christ his sake promiseth forgivenesse of sinnes , and everlasting happinesse to them that believe on christ . q is there not mention in scripture of some other covenant of god to man , besides this covenant of grace in christ ? a. yes , there is that generall covenant with mankind , that the word should not be drowned any more with water , and that the succession of day and night , and other seasons , should be maintained as long as the earth shall endure . gen. . . & . . q these covenants are onely concerning externall and earthly lessings ; but is there not some covenant concerning everlasting happinesse , besides that covenant of grace in christ ? a. yes , that which is usually called the covenant of works , gal. . , . rom. . . q what is that covenant of works ? a. that whereby god promiseth all life and happinesse , upon condition of perfect obedience to the law in a mans own person , with a threatning of everlasting death & cursednesse for the least transgression , rom. ● . . gal. . . gen. , . q vvherein do these two covenants differ ? a. the covenant of works being made with man in innocency may be called a covenant of amity or friendship between god and man being friends ; but the other is a covenant of gracious reconciliation , when sinne had brought in enmity betwixt them , cor. . , . q. vvhat is another difference ? a. the one belongs to adam , and all his posterity ; the other belongs onely to the elect , or at the most onely to such as have the gospel preached to them , eph. . . q is there not some difference in regard of the blessings promised to either of them ? a. yes for the one promiseth life upon condition of perfect obedience ; but if sinne be once committed , it knows of no forgivenesse , nor recovery e but the other promiseth forgivenesse of sinnes f and renovation of our natures g and to write the law in our hearts h . q how do they differ in regard of the conditions of them ? a. the one promiseth nothing but upon condition of fulfilling the law in our own persons i , which to man since the fall is utterly impossible k ; but the covenant of grace promiseth life upon condition of believing in another , the lord jesus christ l q. vvhat are the effects of either of these covenants ? a. the one now works nothing but the discovery of sinne m , and bondage n , and wrath o , requiring many things , but not giving any power to perform p , but the other worketh in us what it requireth of us , being the ministration of the spirit , and righteousnesse and life q ; and the power of god to salvation r q. vvhat is the continuance of either of them ? a. the one is broken by the sinne of man s , and abrogated to them that are in christ t but the other shall never be removed nor disanulled to them that have once truly believed in him u q. vvas the covenant of grace revealed and dispensed in the times afore christs incarnation , or only since his comming in the flesh ? a. there hath been the same covenant of grace for substance , in all times and ages of the church , since the fall of man till this day , gen. . . & . , . iohn . . acts , . heb. . . q. but hath there not been some difference between the administration of the covenant of grace in former times , and in these daies . a. yes , there hath been difference in regard of the manner of administration , and therefore it is that they are called two covenants , or testaments , the old and the new w when for substance it is but the same . q. vvherein stands that different manner of administration ? a. then it was more burden some in regard of the multitude of ceremonies and sacrifices , now it is more easie ; then it was more darke , in regard of types and shadows , now apparent and cleer . q. vvhat may be the further difference ? a. now there is more power and efficacy of the spirit , and the graces of it , in the hearts of gods people genreally , then was then : and whereas then it was only to be one people , now it is to all nations . chap. . how christ is the prophet , priest , and king unto his people , and in particular of his propheticall office . q. you have shewed that the office of christ in generall is to be a mediator , to reconcile god and man together by meanes of the new covenant , or covenant of grace ; tell me now what are the speciall parts of his mediatorship ? a. he is a prophet , a priest , and king . q. how may it be proved that christ hath this threefold office of prophet , priest , and king ? a. first , by the condition of his people , lying under a threefold misery of ignorance , estrangement from god , and inability to recover themselves , and return unto god again , q. how doth this prove it . a. the first of these miseries is holpen by christs propheticall office , the second by his priestly , and the third by his kingly . q. how else may this threefold office of christs be proved ? a. by the order and manner of bestowing salvation upon his people , which must first be revealed and made known , then purchased and procured , and lastly effectually applied . q. and how doth this prove it ? a. the first of these is done by christs propheticall office , the second by his priestly , and the third by his kingly . q. vvhat may be a further proofe of this three fold office of christ ? a. the practice of christ , who first lived as a prophet teaching the will of god secondly as a priest he offered himselfe on the crosse ; and then as a king he applies unto his people all the benefits of his passion . q. come we now to the particulars , and tell me how it may be proved that christ is a prophet to his people ? a. because he is expresly so called a , as also by other titles importing the same thing ; q. vvhat are those other titles ? a. he is called counsellor b , messenger c , doctor or master d , apostle e , speaker f , the shepheard and bishop of our soules g , the faithfull and true witnesse h q vvhat is the work of christ as a prophet ? a. to reveale and make known to his people the counsell and will of god , deut. . . iohn . . & . . & . matth. . . q how doth he this ? a. outwardly by such means as he hath appointed , and inwardly by the teaching and illumination of his holy spirit . q. vvhat are the outward meanes ? a. they are divers and sundry , according as it pleased him i ; but chiefly they are the holy scriptures k , and the ministery of men appointed to speak in his name l q. what is the teaching of the holy spirit ? a. it is that inward work of the holy ghost upon the soule , whereby the outward teaching is made efficacious and powerfull for opening the understanding and humbling the heart to embrace the truth and will of god , iohn . . & . . iohn . q. when hath christ performed his office and function of a prophet unto his people ? a. both when he was upon earth in his own person m , and also in all times and ages of the church , both afore his incarnation n , and since his assention into heaven o q. how much of the will of god doth this prophet make known unto his people ? a. all that is requisite for our salvation ; iohn . & . . & . . & deut. . . q. what then is to be thought of all doctrines , traditions , revelations and ordinances which he hath not appointed ? a. they are all to be rejected and accursed p , as being injurious to the perfection and fulnesse of the propheticall office of christ : chap. . of the priesthood of christ . q. is christ also a priest ? a. yes , and is frequently so called , psal. . . heb. . . & . . & . , . & . , , . & . . & . . q was he a priest after the order of aaron ? a. no , but after the order of melchizedek , psa. . heb. . , . q. how may that appeare ? a. aaron was of the tribe of levi , but christ was of the tribe of iudah a ; and whereas aaron had father and mother , christ as he was man was without a father , and as god without mother b q. how else ? a. aaron and his successors being sinners , had need to offer sacrifice first for their owne sinnes , and then for the peoples : but christ being altogether without sinne , did offer sacrifice onely for the people . heb. . . & . . & . , . q. is there not some difference between the priesthood of aaron and christs priesthood , in respect of the manner of entrance in the same and continuance therein ? a. yes , for aaron and his successors were ordained without an oath ; but christ with an oath c . and whereas the priests of the law died and had successors , christ hath an unchangeable priesthood , continuing priest for ever d q. how doe these priesthoods differ in respect of the sacrifices offered thereby ? a. the one offered the bodyes and blood of beasts ; but christ offered up himselfe , and so was both priest and sacrifice , heb. . , , . q. is there not some difference in regard of the number of their sacrifices ? a. the sacrifices of the law were many , because of their imperfections , but christ hath offered up himselfe once for all , heb. . . & . , . & . , . q. what are the workes performed by him as a priest ? a. oblation or offering a sacrifice e , and making request or intercession for his people f q. what was the sacrifice which he offered ? a. himself as he is man g , his humane soule h , and body i q. vvhat kind of sacrifice was this ? a. it was bloody , or by blood k , it was spotlesse l , and perfect m , and most pleasing unto god n q. vvhat altar did he offer this sacrifice upon ? a. the altar must need be heavenly , as the priest and sacrifice were ; and the use of an altar being to sanctifie the gift , and therefore greater then it w ; and therefore it was not the crosse of wood , but the godhead of christ , which was the altar on which he sacrificed himselfe x q. whether is christ the only priest unto god in these daies , or are there not others who are priests also ? a. all christians are called priests to offer up unto god the spirituall sacrifice of prayer and thanksgiving , and the like y ; but to be a priest to offer up a sacrifice propitiatory is proper and peculiar unto christ onely z q. what acts doth christ perform in making intercession for his people ? a. he appeares in the presence of god for them a , presenting before god the vertue and value of his death and bloodshedding b , with some expression of his will before god for their good c q. in what manner doth he make this intercession ? a. not with teares and words , and prostrating of his body , as he did on earth , but in such a manner as is suitable to his state of glory . q. what are the benefits of this intercession of christ ? a. forgivenesse of sinnes daily continued and applied d , with continuance in gods favour e , and acceptance of our imperfect services f . q. what are the benefits of this intercession ? a. hereby believers are defended and secured against the accusations of all their enemies g , with certainty of salvation in heaven h . chap. . of the kingly office of christ . q. hath christ also the office of a king ? a. yes , for he is often expresly so called a , and hath the ornaments of a king ; q. what are those ornaments ? a. to sit upon a throne b , to weare a crown upon his head c , and to have a scepter in his hand d q. how is he king of his people ? as god onely , or as man also ? a. not as god onely , but as mediator , god and man in one person . q. how is that proved ? a. because he that was born and given to us hath the government upon his shoulders e , and he that was crucisied is made lord and christ f ; now to be born , and given , and crucified , cannot be said of god onely , q. how else may it appeare that christ is king not as god onely , but as man also ? a. because the time will come when he shall deliver up the kingdome to the father g but as god he shall reign with the father unto all eternity . q. is any work of christ as king anywhere expresly ascribed unto him as man ? a. yea , authority to execute judgement as a kingly work ; and this belongeth unto christ as man , iohn . . q. over whom is christ a king ? a. over all creatures in generall h , over the visible church in speciall i , and over the elect in a most speciall manner above all other k q how is he king over all creatures ? a. in sustaining and disposing of them all by his providence , as may be for his glory , and the good of the elect , heb. . . col. . . pro. . , . isa. . , . q. and how is he king of the visible church ? a. in that he gathereth men into it l , appoints ordinances and officers unto it m , and prescribeth laws n for the manner of carrying on all things therein ; q how doth christ all these things in the church ? a. he doth them all by his word , which is therefore called the word of the kingdome , mat. . . q. and how is christ king of the elect ? a. not onely by his providence , as over all creatures : nor only by his word and ordinances , as to the visible church , but also by the speciall working of the grace of his holy spirit in their hearts , ezek. . eph. . col. . q. hath not the kingly office of christ some that are enemies unto it ? a. yes , sin and the world , the divel and death . q. vvhat are the acts of christs kingly office in respect of those his enemies , and the enemies of his church and elect people ? a. to bridle o and subdue p them all . q. vvhat are the properties of christs kingdom ? a. it is lawfull q , spirituall r , powerfull s , righteous t , large u , and everlasting w chap. . of christ his humiliation . q. having spoken of the person & offices of christ , how are we in the next place to consider of his actions ? a. in a twofold estate : his state of humiliation , and his state of exaltation . q vvhat are the generall acts of his humiliation ? a. laying aside the full manifestation of his divine majesty for a time a , and assuming unto him the nature of man b q. vvhat else ? a. it was a great act of his humiliation , that he became subject to the law c , and not onely a man , but in the meanest condition of men d . q. vvhat may be evidences that he was a man of a very mean condition and state ? a. his poore birth , his afflicted and poore life , his shamefull and accursed death , with the things that follow afterward , do evidently shew the same . q. what was his poor birth ? a. he was born of a poor virgin for his mother who was espoused to a carpenter for her husband ; and when he was born was wrapped in swadling clothes and layd in a manger , because there was no room for his poor mother in the inne , luke . . q. what else was the testimony of his poore birth ? a. when he was presented to the lord in the temple with an offering , the offering was but a paire of turtle doves or two yong pigeons , which was an offering appointed at the birth of children of the poorest sort of people . luk. . . levit. . . q. what was his poore and afflicted life ? a. his fleeing into aegypt from the rage of herod e , his poverty in outward estate f , and his subjection to his parents g as any other child . q. vvhat else were testimonies of his afflicted life ? a. his temptations from the divell h , his wearysome journeys from place to place i , and his manifold persecutions from the hands and tongues k of wicked men , q. what was his shamefull , painefull and accursed death ? a. it was his crucifying or death upon the crosse l , which was a death accursed by the law m q. wherein was the shame of that death ? a. it was shamefull in that he was crucified in the midst betwixt two theeves n , and barabbas a murtherer counted more worthy then he o q. what else was the shame and paine of that death ? a. he was crowned with thornes , and otherwayes derided by the people and priests , his hands and feete were nailed to the crosse , and his side was pierced with a speare to the effusion of water and blood , math. . . . . iohn . . q. what else was there in his death ? a : that which was the greatest of all was , that he endured a grievous agony with his fathers wrath , mat. , . . and . . q what followed after his death ? a. he was buried in the grave p , and continued under the power and dominion of death for a time q , q. what was the end of all this humilation of christ ? q. that he might make satisfaction to the justice and honour of god , which had been wronged by our sinnes r , and to procure for us reconciliation with god and eternall life s , q. how came christ to be liable to make satisfaction for our sinnes ? a. because he voluntarily became our surety , and so was to pay the debt that we were in unto god , heb. . . psal , . . chap. . of the exaltation of christ , and his resurrection from the dead . q. having considered of christs humiliation , how are wee in the next place to consider of his exaltation ? a. the exaltation of christ is to be considered both in respect of his godhead and his manhood , and in the severall degrees thereof . q. what is his exaltation in respect of his godhead ? a. it is nothing else but the manifestation of that divine power and glory of his , which had beene so much concealed in all the time of his humiliation , iohn . rom. . : q and what is his exaltation in respect of his manhood ? a. it consists partly in laying aside all those infirmities which it had beene subject unto in the time of humiliation by hunger , thirst , wearinesse and the like , which are all of them removed and done away , cor. . . q. wherein else doth this exaltation consist ? a. in that the humane nature of christ was filled with all the glorious excellencies that a creature is capable of , and this both in respect of his soule a , and in respect of his body b , q. doth the bodie of christ by meanes of his exultation or glorification become infinite , or omnipresent or in many places at once ? a. as the soule of christ being glorified doth still retaine the nature of a soule : so his bodie doth still retaine the essentiall properties of a bodie c , and therefore is not infinite nor omnipresent , for that were to destroy its essentiall properties , q. vvhat are the degrees of christs exaltation ? a. his resurrection from the dead , his ascention into heaven , and his sitting at the right hand of god . q. vvhat meane you by his resurrection from the dead ? a. i meane that his body which was dead was quickned againe d , by the uniting together of his soule and body againe , which in death had been separated : and also that being quickned he came forth again out of the grave e . q. vvhat certainty is there of this resurrection of christ ? a. the scripture saith that christ is risen indeed f , and his resurrection hath beene witnessed by many cleare and pregnant testimonies , q. vvhat are those testimonies ? a. the blessed angels did witnesse that christ was risen from the dead g ; so also did the watchmen which were set to have kept him from rising h , and likewise certaine godly women i , to whom he shewed himselfe alive after his resurrection . q. what further testmonies was there of christs resurrection ? a. the apostles who were witnesses appoined of god for this end k , doe frequently testifie the same l . q. did not christ also declare his owne resurrection by shewing himselfe upon earth after he was risen from the dead , afore he ascended into heaven ? a. he shewed himselfe alive by appearing to many within the space of those forty dayes betweene his resurrection and ascention acts . . q. what are some of those apparitions of christ in those dayes ? a. he appeared to mary magdalen m : and to other godly women n , to two disciples as they were going to emmaus o , and to all the disciples together except thomas p . q. to whom else ? a. to the disciples at another time and to thomas being with them q , to seven of them at the sea of tiberias r , to the eleven a in mountain of galilee s , and upon the mount of olives t , and to above five hundred brethren at once u . q. you have sufficiently shewed the certainty of christs resurrection ; tell likewise the time of it , when it was that he arose . a. hee rose againe the third day after he was put to death , cor . . q. by what power did he rise againe ? a. by the power of the father w , and his owne almighty power x . q. what were the ends of his resurrection ? a. he rose againe to shew the dignity of his person y , to fulfill the scriptures z , and to shew that there was sufficiencie of merit and satisfaction in his death a . q. open this last a little more plainely . a. when a suretie apprehended and laid in prison hath fully discharged the debt , it is meete that then he should be released , and when he is released , it appeareth thereby that the debt is fully paid : so when christ had fully satisfied for our sinnes , it was meete he should be released from death , and being so released it appeareth thereby that satisfaction for our sinnes was fully made . q. what other ends were there of the resurrection of christ ? a. he rose that he might have lordship and dominion over quicke and dead b , which he had duely purchased by his suffering . q. could christ have performed the office whereto he was appointed , if he had not risen from the dead ? a. that may be another end of his resurrection , namely that he might performe the office of an eternall priest , and prophet and king unto his people , which he could not have done if he had still remained under the power and dominion of death . q. what are the benefits of christs resurrection ? hereby believers may be assured of their iustification from all their sinnes c , of their spirituall rising to newnesse of life d , and of their resurrection to glorie at their last day e . chap. . of christs ascention into heaven . q when christ was risen from the dead , did he still continue upon earth ? a. no , but after a time he left this world , and ascended into heaven iohn . q what was the place from whence he did ascend ? a. in generall from this world , and in speciall from the mount of olives neere unto ierusalem acts . . q what was the place to which he did ascend ? a. the third heaven , farre above this earth , and all these inferior and visible heavens . mark . . luk. . . act. . . ioh. . . . eph. . . q. was this ascention of christ a true and reall mutation and change of place , or onely a change of his estate ? a. though christ in respect of his godhead be everywhere present a , and in respect of the power and comfort of his spirit be present with all his saints upon earth b ; yet his ascention into heaven was such a true and reall change of place , that in respect of his bodily presence he is now no more upon earth , but in heaven c , q. what was the efficient cause of christ ascention ? a. the power of the father , in respect whereof he is said to be received or taken up d ; and his owne almighty power , in respect of which he is said to ascend , or goe up e . q. when was the time of this ascention ? a. forty dayes after his resurrection from the dead act. . . q. why did he ascend no sooner ? a. because he would first sufficiently confirme the faith of the disciples concerning his resurrection , and fully instruct them in the things pertayning to the kingdom of god . acts . . q. why did he stay upon earth no longer ? a. to shew that it was not an earthly life , which he now affected or minded . q. who were witnesses of his ascention ? a. the disciples who were with him at that time upon the mount of olives , and certaine angel which then appeared . acts . . . . q. for what end did christ ascend into heaven ? a. that he might fulfill the scripture f , and fully performe his office g , and take possession of the glory that was due unto him h . q. what else were the ends and fruits of his ascention ? a. the leading of captivity captive i , the giving of gifts unto men k , the pouring out of his spirit upon his people l , and preparing a place for them m . chap. . of christs sitting at the right hand of god , and his returne to the last judgement . q : besides the resurrection and ascention of christ , what further degree is there of his exaltation ? a. his sitting at the right hand of god psal. . . mark . . . eph. . . col. . . heb. . , . and , . and . , . q. vvhat are we to understand by christs sitting at the right hand of god ? a. that fulnesse of excellent majestie and glorious dominion whereto he is now advanced , farre above the most glorious angels and every other creature , eph : . , , . heb. . . q. but divine dominion and soveraignty over all creatures belonging to the father and to the holy ghost , why is this peculiarly ascribed unto christ ? a. not in respect of right but the actuall and immediate exercise thereof ; for the former belonging to all the divine persons , this latter is now peculiarly committed unto christ : ioh. . . . act . . and . . q. vvho gave christ this great authority thus to sit at the right hand of god ? a. he did not come unto it by any unjust usurpation , but it was given unto him by god . eph. . . phil. . . iohn . . . and . . q. and why did god give this great advancement unto christ ? a. because the sonne did voluntarily humble himselfe to the greatest degree of obedience and humiliation ; therefore the father gave unto him this exaltation and advancement , as a reward and recompence of that his humiliation , phil. . . . isa. . . . q. doth christ sit at the right hand of god in respect of his divine nature onely or in regard of his manhood also ? a. this dignity belongs to christ as god and man in one person , and not in respect of one of his natures alone . q. how may that appeare ? a. because it is given to him immediately upon his ascention into heaven a , and is to be exercised by him both as davids lord b , and also as he is the sonne of man c . q. how long shall this sitting of christ at gods right hand continue ? a. vntill all his enemies be made his footstoole psa. . . . cor. . ? q. shall it never cease and have an end ? a. if we speake of his reigning and ruling in a way and manner peculiar and appropriate to his person , so we may safely say that when all his enemies are put under his feet , then shal be the end , when he shall deliver up the kingdome to the father , and himselfe be subject to him , cor. . , , . q. what shall be the last act of this glorious power and authority of christ , and so the last degree of his exaltation ? a. his returne to iudgement at the last day , when he shall come a second time into this world with unspeakable majestie and glory , to judge the quick and dead tim: . . act. . . and , . and mat. . . and . . & thes. . , , . chap. . of faith and union with christ . q. you have spoken of the person , offices and actions of christ ; you are now to shew the benefits that come by christ , and how we are made partakers of christ and of his benefits ? a. we are made partakers of christ and all his benefits by faith alone , iohn . . and . , , . and . . eph. . . and act. . . q. what meane you by faith ? a. that grace of the spirit whereby we receive christ , which is wrought in our hearts in our effectuall calling ? q how is faith wrought in effectuall callings ? a. effectuall calling consists of two parts , the offer of christ to the soule , and the soule excepting of that offer or the call of god when he calls the soule to come to christ , and the answere of the soule unto that call a : now this latter is nothing else but faith : q. how is faith wrought in us ? a. not by any power of our owne freewill b , or meerely by morall perswasion c ; for we are dead in sinnes and treepasses d . q. how then is it wrought ? a. by the almighty power of the spirit of god as the author of it e ; and by the word as the instrument thereof f , q. how doth the word worke faith ? a. the law prepareth for it g , by convincing the soule of sinne h , and terrifying for the same i , through the worke of the spirit of bondage k : q. and what doth the gospel ? a. it presents the excellency and worth of christ as an onely and alsufficient saviour l ; but withall convincing the soule of its great sinne in not beleeving in christ m , of its utter insufficiency to come to him n , and its great unworthynesse o to have any part or portion in him . q. what followeth hereupon ? a. hereby the soule feeling it selfe to be utterly lost is further and more kindely broken and humbled , luke . . isa. , , , . math. . . zac : . . q what else is done by the gospell in the working of faith ? a. it sweetly encourageth poore lost soules to come to jesus christ p , and enableth them so to doe , rowling and resting themselves upon him q , by the helpe of the spirit of grace r , which is ministred thereby s , q it seemes then you make christ the object of faith ? a. yea ; not onely the whole truth of god t , but specially christ jesus as he is set forth in the promises of the gospel , is the obiect of saving faith u , q. wherein doth the nature of this faith consist ? a. not onely in knowledge of the revealed will of god w ; and in assent to the truth thereof x ; for so much may be found in devils y . q. what is there more then this in saving faith ? a. there is also a comming unto iesus christ z , with affiance a , and reliance upon him b , q. what is the subject in whom this faith is wrought ? a. this faith is not wrought in any reprobate but only in the elect c ; and not onely in the understanding , or only in the will but in the whole heart d . q. and what an heart is it in whom this faith is wrought ? a. onely the heart of such an one as is now a poore , lost and broken-hearted sinner : math. . , and , . luke . . and . , , . q. vvhy say you so ? a. because till the heart be thus prepared , men will never come to christ e , nor can they truly beleeve on him f , q. vvhat thinke you then of those who professe themselves to be true beleevers , and yet were never in any measure thus prepared and humbled ? a. the case of such professors is very dangerous . q. why say you so ? a. because the fallow ground of their hearts being never broken up , they doe but sow among thornes g , & so the stoninesse of their hearts not being removed by any sound & thorough worke of contrition and humiliation , therfore though they may for a time receive the word with joy , and beleeve for a season , yet they are like to be but temporary beleevers , and in time of temptation fall away h , q. you have shewed the cause , and the object , the nature and subject of faith ; tell me now what are the principall effects of faith ? a. hereby we have union with christ himselfe i , and so communion with him in all the benefits which he hath purchased for the elect k . q. what understand you by union with christ ? a. that spirituall conjunction l betweene christ and the beleever whereby the beleever hath possesion of christ as his owne m , dwelling in christ n , and christ in him o , and is made one spirit with him p . q. by what comparisons or similitudes is this union expressed in scripture ? a. it is expressed by that union that is between the husband and wife q , the vine and the branches r , and the head and the members s . q. what benefit comes to beleevers by meanes of this their union with christ ? a. being one with christ , therefore christ will be sure to take all their injuries and afflictions as if they were his owne t , will free them from condemnation u , and afford unto them communion with him in all his benefits w , q. what are those benefits of christ wherein beleevers have communion with him by vertue of this their union ? a. some of the principal are justification x , adoption y , and sanctification z , besides which if god give us christ , he will with him freely give us all things also a . chap. . of justification & of adoption . q let us come to the first of these benefits which is our justification ; and first tell me what is the meaning of the word to justifie ? a. it doth not signifie to make an unjust man just by changing his qualities ; for then it were all one with sanctification from which it is distinct cor . . . q. what then doth it signifie ? a. to iustifie is frequently opposed to condenme a , and therefore it doth properly signifie to acquit from blame and punishment q. what is the cause of our justification . a. the impulsive cause that moveth god to justifie a sinner is nothing else but his free grace : rom. . tit . . q. vvhat is that for which god doth justifie ? a. god doth not justifie us without righteousnesse ; for then how should god be just b ? but he justifieth us by and for a righteousnesse which is most exact and perfect . q. what is that perfect righteousnesse ? a. not our own righteousnesse in obedience to the law c , for that is most imperfect d q. what righteousnesse is it then ? a. that perfect righteousnesse whereby we are justified is that righteousnesse which was wrought by christ , and inherent in his person , isai . , . ier. . . cor. . . cor. . . rom. . , . q. how comes the righteousnesse of christ to be ours , that we may be justified thereby ? a. god doth graciously impute it to us e , and faith is the instrument for the receiving of it f , that so by it we may be justified ; q. open this a little further , how faith is considered when we are said to be justified by faith ? a. faith is not considered in justification properly , as if the very act of believing were the matter of our righteousnesse ; neither doth it iustifie as a work or vertue in us by any merit of it selfe . q. why may not faith be considered in our justification as a work or vertue in us ? a. because all workes of ours are excluded from being any cause or matter of our justification g ; and therefore if faith were so considered , it must then be excluded also ; q. how then is faith considered when we are said to be justified by faith ? a. onely relatively in respect of the object of it , which is jesus christ and his righteousnesse . q. faith being not considered in our justification properly as a worke or vertue in us , it must needs then be considered relatively in respect of christ the object of it ; but how may the truth of this yet further appeare ? a. as the scripture saith we are justified by faith , so it also saith christ is our righteousnesse h , and that we are justified by christ i . q. vvhat else may be said for the further clearing of this truth ? a. sometimes this phrase , to be justified by faith , is expounded in the words immediately following , to be nothing else but to be justified by christ , gal. . . . q. vvhat are the parts of justification ? a. justification is onely one benefit of god vouchsafed to believers ; but there are two parts thereof inseparably conjoyned , namely , forgivenesse of sinnes through the sufferings of christ , and accounting a man just and righteous through the righteousnesse of christ imputed to him . q. vvhat is the object of justification , the persons whom god doth justifie ? a. onely the elect k , being by nature and in themselves sinners and ungodly l , but called by grace to be true believers in christ m . q. what is adoption ? a. an act of gods free grace n , whereby the elect o being in themselves aliens & strangers p from god , are upon their believing in christ q admitted for christs sake r , on whom they doe believe , into the houshold of god , and to the dignity and priviledge of his children s . q what are the benefits of this adoption ? a. by means hereof believers are brethren to christ jesus t , have title to the heavenly inheritance u and have liberty and boldnesse to make their requests to god w , as to a most gracious and loving father , with great assurance to be heard x . chap. . of sanctification , and the difference between it and justification ; and of foure other benefits of christ to believers . q. sanctification being another of those benefits that come by christ , and our union with christ , tell me first of all what sanctification is ? a. it is a true and reall change a , wrought by the spirit of god b , in the elect c , now believing on christ d : whereby the whole man e is changed and altered from the turpitude and filthinesse of sinne f , to the purity of the image of god . q. vvhat difference is there between the former benefit ▪ to wit iustification , and this of sanctification ? a. the materiall cause of the one is the righteousnesse of christ without us , imputed to us g : but the materiall cause of the other is a body of divine graces and qualities infused into the soule , created in us h . q. how doe they differ in respect of their formall causes ? a. the formall cause of justification is the pronouncing of the sentence of absolution , and accepting a mans person for righteous : the formall cause of sanctification is the restoring o gods image into the soule , by putting off the old man , and putting on the new , ephes. . , , q. how else doe they differ ? a. justification makes no reall change in the soule , as when the judge acquits a man , but makes him never a whit the more honest then before ; but sanctification makes a great change in the soule from sinne and corruption unto purity and holinesse , rom. . . tim. . . cor. . . q. what may be a fourth difference ? a. justification is perfect at the first , as one individuall act ; but sanctification is a graduall work , imperfect at the first , and growing by degrees . q. why doe you say that iustification is perfect at the first ? a. not in respect of the sense and feeling , and assurance of it , for these may increase and grow daily , and are therefore daily to be prayed for , mat. . . luke . . q. how then is justification perfect at the first ? a. in respect of the matter whereby we are justified , which is the imputed righteousnesse of christ , which is so perfect that a man can never have more all the daies of his life , though he should live as long as ever any did . q. is not sanctification also perfect at the first ? a. farre from it ; for the honest men upon earth have been sensible of such imperfection i in their sanctification , that they durst not stand to be justified before god thereby k . q. vvhat proceeds from this imperfection of sanctification ? a. a continuall combat between corruption and grace in the sanctified soule , gal. . . rom. . q. and what else ? a. a continuall exercise of repentance , and of fleeing to the grace of god in christ jesus , rom. . , . q. iustification , adoption , and sanctification are excellent benefits that come to believers through christ ; tell me what other benefits do accompany or flow from these ? a. in this life there doth accompany or flow from them assurance of gods love , lively hope , and expectation of glory , peace of conscience , and joy in the holy ghost , rom. . , , . & . . tit. . . q. if these things be vouchsafed to believers in this life , what shall they have in the life to come ? a. unspeakable glory and happinesse in the immediate fruition of communion with god and christ unto all eternity , col. . . iohn . . heb. . . cor. . . q but may not a true believer lose his faith , and so lose all these benefits that come by faith in this life , and fall short of eternall glory in the life to come ? a. if he should finally lose his faith , it would be so indeed ; but god that of his grace hath wrought this faith in him , will preserve and perfect the same untill the day of christ , phil. . . cor. . . q. doe you mean then that a true believer can never totally nor finally fall away , but shall persevere in grace unto the end ? a. yea , i mean so indeed ; this perseverance of believers in the state of grace being plainly and plenteously taught in the holy scriptures , pet. . . luke . , . iohn . , . & . . mat. . . ier. ● . . chap. . of the necessity of faith , its imperfection at the first , and the means whereby it may be increased : of hearing the word , and of baptisme and the lords supper . q. you have shewed many excellent benefits that come by faith ; but whether is faith of such necessity that these things cannot be without it ? a. such is the necessity of this grace of faith , that in respect of the usuall way of gods dispensation , there is no hope nor possibility that a man should escape wrath or attaine happinesse in this or in another world without faith , iohn . . mark . . heb. . . q. faith then is very profitable and necessary ; but whether is it perfect at the first , or groweth by degrees ? a. the best faith is imperfect in this life a , and is usually little at the first b , increasing and growing by degrees unto more perfection c . q. vvhat are the ordinary and usuall means for increasing of faith ? a. hearing the word d , communion of saints e , receiving of sacraments f , prayer g , reading h , meditation i and conference . q. when must we heare the word ? a. the usuall and ordinary time is on the lords day k , and other times also l are not to be neglected , when god gives such opportunity . q vvhat rules must be observed before we come to heare the word that we may get profit thereby ? a. we must lay aside our sinnes m , seriously consider the weightinesse of the work we goe about n , resolve to obey whatsoever shall be shewed to be the will of god o , and pray to him that he would teach us to profit p . q. vvhat rules must be observed in hearing ? a. reverent attention q , with spirituall affections r , giving credit to the truth s , and applying the word unto our selves t . q vvhat must we observe after we haue heard ? a. we must meditate of the same afterward u , confer of it with others w , pray to god for a blessing x , and set upon the practice of what is required y . q. vvhat is the generall nature of sacraments ? a. they are divine instructions annexed to the word , for the teaching of spirituall things , gen. . exod. . mat. . q. who is the author of sacraments ? a. onely god z , who is the author of those spirituall blessings and duties that are taught thereby . q vvhat are the parts of a sacrament ? a. two : an outward and visible signe , and an inward and spirituall blessing , which is the thing signified . q. who are to receive the sacraments ? a. the faithfull members of some visible church , and their seed , gen. . , . acts . . q. vvhat is the proper effect and use of a sacrament ? a. to be a signe and seale of the covenant between god and his people , and of those spirituall blessings which are promised therein , gen. . , . rom. . . exod. . mat. . q. how many sacraments are there ? a. in the new testament onely two : baptisme and the lords supper , mat. . . & . , &c. q. vvhat is the outward signe or part in baptisme ? a. water a , and washing therewith b , in the name of the father , sonne , and holy ghost c . q. what is the thing signified ? a. union with christ d , and forgivenesse of sinnes e , with sanctification in the mortifying of corruption , and quickning the soule to newnesse ▪ of life f . q. who ought to be baptized ? a. men of yeeres when once they are converted to the faith , and joyned to the churchg g ; and such infants whose parents , both or one of them are to be converted and joyned h . q. who is the author of the lords supper ? a. the lord jesus in the same night in which he was betrayed when he was about to lay down his life , which was the greatest act of love that ever was , cor. . , . q. vvhat is the outward signe in the lords supper ? a. bread and wine with the actions pertaining to them , which are breaking and pouring out , giving and receiving , eating and drinking , mat. . . cor. . , , &c. q vvhat is the spirituall blessing , or thing signified ? a. the generall sum thereof is christ himselfe , and our communion with him , and withall the benefits of his passion , mat. . , &c. cor. . q. what are the things signified more particularly ? a. the passion of christ , and his sacrifice upon the crosse , consisting in the crucifying of his body , and shedding of his blood , cor. . . q. what else ? a. the action of god the father giving k christ for and to the elect , with the action of christ giving himselfe l to death , and likewise giving himselfe to the soules of the faithfull . q. what is the third thing signified in the lords supper ? a. the act of faith , receiving christ and feeding on him spiritually m , so as to grow unto more communion with his n body and blood , and spirituall strength of grace thereby q. who ought to receive the lords supper ? a. such members of the church as are endewed with knowledge o spirituall affections p , faith q repentance r , love s , and thankfulnesse t . chap. . of prayer , and some other means of increasing faith . q. what is the generall nature of prayer ? a. not onely a wish or desire after this , or that ; for a man may have so much and never pray , iam. . . q. vvhat is it then ? a. prayer is an opening of the desire of the heart before god a , whether it be by ffighes and groanes b , or by words c , and other means d . q to whom must we pray ? a. to him that knoweth the heart e , and is almighty , and so able to help f , to him that is to be worshipped g , and believed in h , which is none but god . q. whether must we pray to god directly and immediately , or through a mediator ? a. onely through the mediation of jesus christ , iohn . & . . tim. . . heb. . . q. what are the parts of prayer ? a. petition and thanksgiving , phil. . . thess. . , . q. what is petition ? a. a prayer wherein we aske the preventing or removing of things hurtfull , and the bestowing of things needfull , mat . , , , . q what is thanksgiving ? a. a prayer wherein we desire that honour and glory may be given to god for what we have received i , or do believe we shall receive hereafter k . q. whether is not confession of our sinnes and miseries , and vows and promises unto god , parts of prayer ? a. they may be called adjuncts of prayer , because they are to be expressed or understood in every prayer . q. how may that appeare ? a. by this , because to come to god for mercy without an acknowledgement of our unworthinesse and misery , and to desire him to perform what he requires of us , is little better then a mocking of god . q. are there any for whom we must not pray ? a. yes ; we must not pray for the dead , because we cannot do it of faith , as having neither precept nor example , nor any good warrant for it in the world , rom. . . q. vvhy else may we not pray for the dead ? a. because such prayers cannot availe at all , but are altogether vain , pet. . . heb. . . q. for whom else must we not pray ? a. we must not pray for the salvation of all men living universally , for that is contrary to the revealed will of god l ; nor for any in particular that have sinned the sinne against the holy ghost m . q. for whom then must we pray ? a. for all other sorts of men now living n , both our selves and others o , whether they be friends or enemies p , and for some that shall live hereafter q . q. is there any rule of direction according to which we ought to frame our prayers ? a. yes , the whole will of god revealed for this purpose in the word r , and that pattern of prayer given by christ unto his disciples s . q. seeing god knoweth all our wants afore we pray , and hath determined with himselfe what he will doe for us , wherefore then should we pray ? a. not to inform him , as if he were ignorant of our estates , for he understandeth our thoughts afarre off t nor to change his minde , for his purpose is unchangeable u . q. why then ? a. we are therefore to pray , because god hath appointed prayer to be the way and means w whereby he will accomplish that which he hath purposed to doe for us . q. how must we pray that we may be accepted ? a. the persons praying must be righteous x humble y and upright z and the matter of prayer must be something lawfull and promised a . q. and what must be the manner of praying , and the end aymed at therein ? a. the manner must be in sense and feeling of our wants b ; with faith c , fervency d , and perseverance e ; and the end must not be that we may consume it upon our lusts , but for the glory of god f . q. what other means are there for the increasing of faith ? a. diligent reading of the holy scriptures g , and serious meditation therein h , with frequent and holy conference with others i chap. . of the church catholike or mysticall , and the difference between it and particular instituted churches . q. who is the subject of redemption , or of all that deliverance obtained by christ ? a. not the blessed angels , because having never fallen they needed no redeemer , nor all the race of mankind , for christ would not pray for the world , iohn . . q. who then were redeemed by christ ? a. he gave himselfe for none others but only for his church , eph. . . acts . . iohn . . & . . q. what is meant by the church in the holy scriptures ? a. it is usually taken in scripture , either for the catholique church a which is called the church mysticall , or else it is taken for the church instituted , or particular churches b . q. what is the difference between the catholike , universall and mysticall church , and the instituted or particular churches ? a. they differ in their number ; for the catholike church is but one church , one body c but of the other sort in the dayes of the new testament there are many churches d . q wherein do they differ in respect of the matter ? a. the catholike church hath none in it but saints , and all true beleevers are in it e : but particular churches have some times many wolves within f , and many sheepe without g , though it ought not so to be : eph. . , , , . heb. . . q. what is a third defference betweene them ? a. the forme which constitutes the catholike church is their union which christ by faith h but the forme of the other is the bond of an holy covenant i , to walk together in all the waies of christ . q. is there not some difference between them in regard of place ? a. yes , for some parts and members of the catholike church are now in heaven , and the rest shall all come thither in gods appointed time k ; but the members of particular or instituted churches are all of them upon the earth for the present , and some of them must never come in heaven l . q. what may be a fifth difference ? a. whereas particular churches are visible to themselves and others also , especially in times of peare m , the catholike church is properly a church invisible . q how is that proved , that the catholike church is invisible ? a. because some parts thereof are now in heaven : and those that are on earth never were nor will be all together that they might be seen . q. what may be a further proofe hereof ? a. their union whith christ wich is the form of that church , is knowne onely unto god . q name a sixth difference ? a. the catholike church and all the members of it continue for ever n ; but particular churches ! by persecutions and corruptions may come to be utterly dissolved and extinct o . q. what is a last difference betweene them ? a. the ordinary ministery appointed by christ is for the instituted and particular churches , but not for the church catholike as such , because that church hath no pastor nor bishop but christ . q. how may this appeare that ministers are not ministers of the universall church , but only of some particular congregation ? a. the church to whom the ministery belong is to chuse her owne ministers p but the unversall church never comes together to make any such choice : q. how else may this appeare ? a. there is no part of the church to which the ministery belongs , but it stands in need of ministers q . but a good part of the catholike church is glorious in heaven with christ , and therefore hath no such need q. what may be a third ground hereof ? a. the flock of god over which the holy ghost : doth make men overseers , is such as may be attended and watched over ; even the whole flocke and ministers thereof r : q. and why may not the same be said of the catholike church ? a. because that church is so large that it is not possible for any man to attend it or watch over it . q. is there any evill in it for one man to be a bishop or minister to all christians , where ever they be disposed of , and not onely to one congregation ? a. besides that such a man must needs neglect the greatest part of his charge , it is a great part of the usurpation of the bishop of rome , for which he is truely called antichrist , that he will take upon him to be universall bishop s over all the christians in the world q who is the head of the catholike church ? a. onely iesus christ t , as giving influence of life , sense and motion to the same , as the head doth unto the body : q who are the members of that church ? a. only they and all they that are effectually called to be true beleevers in christ : rev. . . iohn . . q. what are the parts of the catholike church ? a. according to the degrees of communion which they have with christ , so that church may be distinguished into that which is militant and that which is triumphant . q. vvhat is the church militant ? a. it is that part of the catholike church which is warring and fighting here on earth against spirituall enemies , the divell , the world and the flesh . eph. . . phil. . . & cor. . . tim. . . q. and what is the church triumphant ? a. it is that part of the catholike church which are now in heaven , gloriously triumphing over all those enemies which in this world they did conflict and combate withall . eph. . . heb. . . eph. . . chap. . of the instituted church , or perticular churches . q. what is the matter of particular or visible churches ? a. by the appointment of christ all churches ought to consist onely of true beleevers a and all that are true beleevers ought to joyn themselves unto some church b . q. if the matter of particular churches for the quality of it ought to be true beleevers in christ , what ought to be the quantity thereof ? q no more in number in the dayes of the new testament , but onely so many as may ordinarily meet together in one congregation , acts . . & . . & . . & . . & . . cor. . . and . , . and . . q. is any thing else needfull to the being of a visible church but onely the matter above mentioned ? a. timber and stones are not an house untill they be compacted and joyned together ; and as the humane soule and body are not man , unlesse they be united ; so beleevers are not a visible church , without some visible bond and union . q. and what is that bond that doth unite them ? a. an holy agreement and covenant c , with god and one another , to walke together in such duties of worship to god and edification of one another as the gospell of christ requireth of all churches and the members thereof : q. how many kinds of churches are there ? a. the visible church ( if we speake of that which is truely so called ) is one and the same in essence , from the beginning of the world to the end thereof ; namely a company of people united together in the profession of the true religion . q. but may not the true church be some way distinguished ? a yes ; for there is the church of the old testament , and the churches of the new : there are pure churches and churches that are corrupt ; and besides these that are true , there are also some that are false churches . q. what is the church of the old testament ? a a company of people united together in the profession of such a religion , or faith , whereby men beleeved on christ then to come . q. what is a church of the new testement ? a. a company of people united together in the profession of such a religion or faith whereby men beleeve on christ already come . q what are pure churches and churches that are corrupt ? a. a pure church is such a church whose matter forme , doctrine , worship , and ministery is accordding to the appointment of christ in the word . q. and what is a corrupt church ? a. such an one as in the things last mentioned or in some of them doth swerve from the appointment of christ , yet still holding the foundation of salvation . q. how if their swerving be such as overthroweth the foundation ? a. then they cease to be a true church , and become either no church , or at the best a false church . q. what is a false church ? a. one that is so exceedingly corrupt in regard of their constitution , doctrine , worship , ministery , that if men beleeve and walke according thereunto , they cannot be saved . q. and may not thus much befall a true church ? a. no ; a true church is either pure in these things , or if corrupt , yet not so corrupt as to overthrow salvation . chap. . of the power or liberty of churches , and of church officers . q. what is the power or liberty of particular churches ? a. it is not civill or worldly , for christs kingdome is not of this world a ; neither is it independent and supreame , for that belongs only to christ b ; but their power is spirituall and ministeriall . q. and wherein have they such power ? a. they have such power from christ to exercise all the ordinances of true religion , and to assemble together for the exercise thereof ; and in particular to choose officers to themselves , and to practice discipline or censures . q. whether have churches absolute power from christ to assemble together for the exercise of true religion , or onely so far forth as the princes of the earth shall give them leave ? a. princes ought not to hinder these things , but to be nursing fathers to the church c ; and it is a great blessing of god when they are such d . q. but if princes be not such , what ought the church to do in such case ? a. they must not neglect to observe the commandements of god , for lack of the commandement of man e , because jesus christ who giveth them commandement for these things , is the king of kings , and the prince of the kings of the earth f . q. to whom belongeth the power of choosing officers to the church ? a. the church is to choose her own officers , acts . . & . , . & . . q. how may that be further cleared ? a. either the church must choose her own officers , or else men may intrude themselves ; or officers must be called immediately of god , or be appointed by some other men : none of which may be affirmed . q. why may not men intrude themselves ? a. no man must take this honour to himself to be an officer in the church , but he that is called of god , as was aaron , heb. . . q. and why may not a man be called of god immediately ? a. such kind of callings are not to be expected in these daies , as being particular to apostles and other extraordinary officers , gal. . . q. but why may no other men appoint officers to the church ? a. other men that are not of the church have no such authority given them as to appoint offices to the church . q. if men must not be officers without a calling , and immediate callings be ceased , and other men may not appoint church officers , it remaineth then that the church is to choose her own officers : but unto what functions must the church choose officers ? a. onely to such functions as are appointed by christ in his word g and are of ordinary and perpetuall use in the church ; for otherwise they cannot expect that god will be with them in the choise , or blesse the officers unto them . q. vvhat are the officers appointed by christ for ordinary and perpetuall use in the church ? a. they are bishops and deacons h , which bishops are also called elders i more particularly , they are pastors , teachers k , ruling elders l , deacons m , and widdows n . q. what are pastors ? a. they are elders of the chuch , who are to quicken the hearts of the people unto all faith and obedience , and to reprove and comfort where there is need , by attending upon exhortation o , with a word of wisdom . q. what are teachers ? a. they are elders of the church who are to instruct the people in the good knowledge of the lord , and to refute errour p by attending upon teaching sound doctrine with a word of knowledge q . q. what are ruling elders ? a. they are elders of the church , who though they doe not labour in the word and doctrine r , yet they are to guide the church in comelinesse and order , and peaceably attending upon ruling with diligence s . q. vvhat are deacons ? a. they are officers of the church , who are to retaine , preserve , and distribute t the outward treasures of the church , for the reliefe of the poore , and other outward affaires of the church , in simplicity and faithfulnesse u . q. vvhat are widows and their works ? a. they are godly and ancient women , left desolate and destitute of outward succour , who are to attend the sick , and such like offices as are more suitable to be performed by women then by men , tim. . , . rom. . . q. what persons must the church choose for these offices ? a. such members of the church w , as by sufficient experience , time , and triall x , are known to be fitted with gifts y and graces from god for the places that the church would put them in . q. how must officers be put into their places ? a. all of them by solemn prayer unto god , and with imposition of hands upon elders and deacons , and in the ordaining of elders with fasting also . acts . . tim. . . & . . heb. . . acts . . chap. . of church discipline or censures . q. what is church discipline ? a. a personall application of the will of god by censures , for the preventing and removing of scandals . q. what are the parts of it ? a. binding and loosing a , which may be also called retaining and remitting of sinnes b ; and the former is either admonition c or excommunication d . q. what persons are subject to church-censures ? a. all and onely they that are member of the church , mat. . . cor. . . psa. . . q. in what way , and by what steps and degrees must an offending brother be dealt withall ? a. if the matter be private , i must first reprove him privately ; if this doe not win him , i must then take one or two more , matth. . . . q. how if this also prevaile not ? a. then the matter must be told unto the church , and the church must publiquely admonish him ; and if he do not heare the church , he is to be excommunicated , mat. . . q. in what manner must admonition or reproof , whether private or publique , be administred ? a. sometimes with meeknesse e , and sometimes with severity and sharpnesse f , according to the condition of the person sinning , the sinne committed , and the manner of doing g . q. how else ? a. alwaies with due solemnity , as an ordinance of god h , in the name of christ , and so that the winning i of the party must be the thing that must be aymed at . q. vvhat is excommunication ? a. a putting away , or cutting off from the communion and fellowship of the church , cor. . , . gal. . . mat. . . q. for what sinnes must men be excommunicated ? a. for hainous and flagitious k offences being publiquely known , and for other offences persisted in with obstinacy after due admonition l . cor. . , , . q. for what end should men be excommunicated ? a. for the healing of the offendor m , and for the preserving others from sinne n , and for the glory of the name of god which is blasphemed because of the sinne of church-members o q. how should a man behave himselfe towards them that are excommunicated ? a. he must avoyd all church-communion with them p , and all voluntary civill fellowship q , that may argue approbation or familiarity : but not such duties as men are bound unto in naturall or civill respects r . q. when must a man under censure be loosed and forgiven ? a. when he gives such signes of repentance as may satisfie rationall charity that the sinne is truly subdued and mortified , luke . , . cor. . . cor. . , , . chap. . of the life that beievers ought to live in the world , and of the law of god . q. what ought to be the life of them that are in christ ? a. a course of holy obedience , and service to god all the daies of their life , luke . , . pet. . , , , . tit. . . eph. . . q. vvhat is the generall rule of obedience ? a. not the commandements of men a , nor that which is good in our own eyes b , but that will of god which is therefore revealed unto us that we might do it c q. vvhether may not unbelievers perform duties of obedience ? a. they may performe many things which are good for the matter of them d , but not so as to please god in any thing they doe e . q. if they cannot please god in any thing they doe , had they not best then to neglect goods duties altogether ? a. not so : for they are nowhere exempted from the commandement . q. are believers able to performe obedience to god ? a. they are able by the power of christ that strengthens them , to doe the will of god in some measure of truth , as being now alive from the dead , and created in christ jesus to good works , phil. . eph. . . rom. . . q. but can they doe this in such perfection as the law of god requireth ? a. no , in no wise f , and the reason is because they know but in part g , and have flesh dwelling in them , and lusting against the spirit h . q. should they not then omit good duties altogether , seeing they cannot perform them in that perfection which the law requireth ? a. not so , but doe them in uprightnesse of heart , as god shall inable them i , because god of his mercy through christ hath promised to pardon their infirmities and sinnes , and to accept their sincere , though weake endeavours k . q. vvhat is the speciall rule according to which the life of a christian ought to be framed ? a. the life of a christian ought to be framed according to the morrall law of god , rom. . , . eph , iam . q. how may that be further cleared ? a. because christians are not set at liberty to sinne l , and no man knoweth what is sinne but by the law m . q. how else ? a. because in the new covenant god doth not promise to take away the law , but to write it in our hearts n . q. vvhat rules are to be observed for our better understanding the commandements of the law ? a. every commandement of the law is spirituall . reaching not onely to the outward man , but also to the heart , soule , and conscience , rom. . . mat. . , . q. what is another rule ? a. under the negative part the affirmative is comprehended , and under the affirmative the negative , mark . . psal. . . q. what may be a third rule for the same purpose ? a. under one vice forbidden , all of the same kind are forbidden also ; with all the causes , occasions , and signes thereof . and under one duty are commanded all of the same kind , with all the means and helps thereof . q. vvhat may be a fourth rule ? a. god requireth not only that we keep the law our selves , but that as much as is in us we cause others to keep it also . q. how many are the commandements of the law ? a. in respect of the generall heads they are ten o ; but all may be referred to two kinds : duties to god in the foure first commandements , and duties to our neighbour in the six latter . q. vvhat is the main scope of the first commandement , thou shalt have no other gods before me ? a. here is required all that naturall worship of god , whether the same be inward or outward , which is such as if there were no law prescribed , yet if we well know his nature , we would undoubtedly perform it to him . q. name some principall duties that are here required , with the contrary vices forbidden ? a. here is required faith in god p , love to his majesty q , and hope in him r , hearing his voice s , calling upon him by prayer t , and such like . q. and what are the evils forbidden in this first commandement ? a. here is forbidden atheisme u , ignorance of god w , unbeliefe x , dispaire y , pride z , hatered a , and contempt of god b , and all inordinate setting of our hearts upon any creature c , q what is the maine scope of the second commandement ? a. the second commandement enjoyneth all that worship of god which is by divine institution and ordinance mat. . . deut. . . q what are some of the particulars ? a. the publike and solemne preaching and hearing of his word d , and prayer e , celebration of sacraments f church , fellowship g , election and ordaining of ministers and their whole ministration h , with the due observation of church discipline i , q. what is the evill here forbidden ? a. all neglect of the instituted worship of god k , and all worshipping of him after the images , imaginations or inventions of men l q. what is the sum of the third commandement ? a. the things here required are the due manner of observing and using all things that pertaine to the naturall or instituted worship of god , and all that name of god whereby he makes himselfe knowne unto his people ? q. shew it by some instances ? a. here is required preparations to gods service m , reverence n , devotion o , sincerity p , fruitfulnesse under ordinances q , comlinesse r , or der s , and such like . q. what is the evill forbidden in the third commandement ? a. all rash vaine and light using of the titles t , word u , and ordinances of the lord w , as sleeping at sermons x or at prayer , and wandering thoughts at the same y , all confusions in church meeting z , and all using of any thing that is called gods name , otherwise then it ought to be used a q. what is the summe of the fourth commandement ? a. the consecrating and observing of that seventh part of time in gods solemne worship which he hath instituted and ordayned , which is the holy keeping of the sabbath isay . . q. what is the maine sinne here forbidden ? a. all holy dayes of mens devising without warrant of his word b , and all profaining of the lords holy time or any part of it c , by needlesse words , works , or thoughts . q vvhat is required in the fifth commandement ? a. to maintaine and yeeld unto men that honour that is due unto them in respect of their places and degrees , whether they be naturall parents d , husbands e , masters f , magistrates g , ministers h , aged persons i , or any other superiours , or qualls , and inferior k q. vvhat is the contrary evill here forbidden ? a. all such carriage as tends to the dishonour of our neighbours . q. vvhat is required in the sixth commandement ? a. due care of the life and person of our neighbour the contrary whereof is murder l ; fighting and quarrelling m , rash anger n , malice , hatred o , and envy p , and such like . q. vvhat is the summe of the seventh commandement ? a. due care of chastity and purity from all the lusts of uncleannesse . q. instance in some of the sinnes here forbidden ? a. here is forbidden all unchast thoughts and lust of the heart q , filthy dreames r , lookes s , speeches t , and apparrell u , gestures of dalliance w , actions of sodomie x , bestiality y , selfe polution z , adultery a , fornication b , and wantonnesse c , q. vvhat is the summe of the eight commandement ? a. due care of our neighbours outward estate whether it be lands , houses , cattell , corne , or ought else . q. name some of the sins forbidden in this commandement ? a. here is forbidden all neglect or hindrance of our neighbours outward estate , whether it be by idlenesse d , covetousnesse e , non payment of debts f , oppression g , by excessive prices or wages , robbery h , theevery i , or deceit k , q vvhat is the summe of the ninth commandement ? a. truth in speeches , promises and our dealings amongst men ; and the contrary forbidden is all lying and false speaking , eph. . . col. . , psal. , . micah . . psa. . . q what is the summe of the tenth commandement ? a. contentment with out owne outward estate l , and not to covet that which is our neighbours m , but hartily to desire and rejoyce in his good , as well as in our own n , chap . of the death and resurrection of the body , and the last judgement . q what is to be believed concerning death ? a. it is now appointed of god , that adam and all his children must die a , except enoch b and elias c , and such as shall be found alive at the comming of christ to judgement d . q why hath god so appointed ? a. because of sinne e , for if sinne had not entered into the world , there had never been death . q. but why should believers die , seeing christ hath suffered death for them , and so hath taken away all punishment of sinne ? a. they die not now in way of punishment for their sinne properly , but for other ends and repects . q. for what ends doe they die ? a. that they may be freed from all the evils of this life f , and be brought to rest and glory with christ g . q. what is the state of the godly immediately upon their death ? a. their bodies doe sleep in the grave , as in the bed of spices h , and their soules which are immortall are made glorious in the presence of god in heaven i . q and what is the state of the wicked upon their death ? a. their bodies lie rotting in the grave , through the heavy curse of god k ; and their soules are tormented in hell , in unspeakable woe and misery l . q. shall the bodies of men lie for ever in the grave , and never be united to their soules again ? a. not so , for there will be a resurrection of the just and unjust m , and all that are in the graves shall come forth n . q. in what manner shall the bodies of the saints arise ? a. for substance the same bodies that they were at death o ; but for quality greatly changed p , insomuch that they shall be raised incorruptible , glorious , powerfull , and spirituall q . q. vvhat great matter is it for godly men to rise again , seeing wicked men shall rise also ? a. they shall not rise by vertue of any union with christ as their head , as the godly shall r ; but onely by the power of christ , as their judge s . q. vvherein else doth the resurrection of the godly and wicked differ ? a. the wicked shall not rise in such a glorious and excellent manner , nor unto the same end with the godly , but to the resurrection of damnation , iohn . . q. what followeth after the resurrection ? a. the eternall judgement , heb. . . & . . q. when will the day of judgement be ? a. it is certainly appointed and decreed of god when it shall be t ; but it is not known to us that we might alwaies live in watchfulnesse u q. who must be judge at that day ? a. jesus christ is appointed of god to be the judge of quick and dead . acts . . & . . iohn . , . tim. . . cor. . . q. who must be judged ? a. all the world , both living and dead ; and this of all things done in this life , whether they be good or evil . acts , . cor. . . tim. . . pet. . . q. in what manner will be come ? a. he will come suddenly w , visibly x , and in wonderfull majesty and glory y , in flaming fire z , with the voyce of the archangell a , and thousand thousands of angels b . q. what sentence will he give ? a. to them upon his right hand he will say , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the would . matth. . . q. and what will be his sentence upon the wicked at his left hand ? a. to them upon his left hand he will say , goe ye cursed into everlasting fire , prepared for the divel and his angels , matth. . . q. what shall follow the pronouncing of the sentence ? a. the sentence pronounced shall presently be put in execution , so that every man shall receive according to his works . matth. . . cor. . . mat. . . q. what shall the wicked receive ? a. they shall be punished with everlasting perdition from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power c , with the divell and his angels d , in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , which is the second death e , q. and what shall the godly receive ? a. they shall have redemption and deliverance from all kind of evil f . q. and what good shall they enjoy ? a. wonderfull g , unspeakable and unconceivable h , and everlasting i happinesse and glory in the highest heavens k , in the presence of god l , in whose presence is fulnesse of joy , and at whose right hand are pleasures for evermore m . the contents of the severall chapters . chap. page . . of catechizing , as an introduction to that which followeth . of the holy scriptures . of god . of gods decree . of creation . of gods providence . of angels . of the estate of man in innocency by creation . of the fall of our first parents . of sinne , the definition of it , and the distribution into originall and actuall . of the punishment of sinne . of mans deliverance . of the person of christ , his godhead and his manhood . of the office of christ , as mediator between god and man . of the covenant between god and man , the covenant of works , and the covenant of grace , and the difference between them . of the propheticall , priestly , and kingly office of christ : and specially of the propheticall . of the priesthood of christ . of the kingly office of christ . of christs humiliation . of the exaliation of christ , and of his resurrection from the dead . of christs ascension into heaven . of christs sitting at the right hand of god , and his return to the last judgement . of faith and union with christ . of iustification , and of adoption . sanctification , and the difference between that and justification , and of some other benefits of christ unto believers . of the necessity of faith , its perfection at the first , and the meanes whereby it may be increased . of hearing the word , of baptisme , and the lords supper . of prayer , and some other means of increasing faith . of the church catholike or mysticall , and the difference between it , and particular instituted churches . of the instituted church , or particular churches . of the power or liberty of churches , and of church officers of church-discipline or censures . of the life that believers in christ ought to live in the world , and of the law of god . of death , the resurrection of the body , and the last judgement . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- a heb. . . b heb. . . c heb. . . d ps. . . e heb. . , . cor. . , . f tim. . . g heb. . , . & . , . cor. . , . h eccles. . . deut. . . matth. . , , , . tim. . . mat. . . i psa. . . k heb. . , . l prov. . . m pet. . . & . . n tim. . . o eccles. . . heb. . . deut. . . matth. . . & , . &c. p heb. . . cor. . . mar. . . cor. . . q luke . . act. . . pet. . . r prov. . . deut. , . psa. . , . & . . mat. . , . luke . . eph. . . s heb. . , cor. . , . u prov. . & . , . & , . x prov. . . & . . & . . iob . . act. . . a heb. . . b num. . , . c iob . , . gen. . . d gen. . . exod. . . e gen. . . exod. . . f is. . . g deut. . . psa. . h isa. . . pet. . . i cor. . . k tim. . . rom. . . l act. . . & . . m luke . . pet. . . n tit. . . tim. . . tim. . . o tim. . . p pet. . . q heb. . . cor. . . cor. . , . r psal. . , &c. & , . s iohn . . t tim. . . u tim. . . w gal. . , . revel. . . x deut. . , . iosh. . . y tim . . tim. . . z deut. . . a ps. . . & prov. . . b acts . . ioh. . c psa. . . d tim. . a iohn . . col. . , . b exod. . . isa. . . heb. . . iohn . . c rom. . . psal. . . iob . , , &c. a ioh. . . & . , , . b ioh. . . ioh. . . phil. . . c ioh. . . & . . is. . . d ps. . . ioh. . . e ioh. . . heb. . . f ioh. . . g matth. . . h gal. . . rom. . . i col. . isa. . . ioh. . rom. . . prov. . . &c. ioh. . . col. . . k acts . . . & . . with is. . . cor. . . with cor. . . iob. . . cor. . . l deut. . . m exod. . . n exod. . , . o psal. . . & . . iob. . . &c. & . . . &c. p iob. , . rom. . . & . . q gen. . . & . . matth. . . psal. . . r matth. . . psal. . . s psal. . . rom. , . tit. . . t psal. . last . zeph. . . rom. . . iob. . . & . . & . . u psal. . . iam. . . w kings . . isa. . . ier. . . psal. . , &c. x ps. . . & , . & . , . a exod. . . prov. . . b prov. . . ps. . . c act. . . & . . d matth. . . . e pet . . rev. . . f ephes. . . tim. . . thes. . g iud. . rom. . . h iob. . . . i act. . . k eph. . . psal. . . & . . l rom. . , . m acts . . eph. . . thes. . . deut. . . o luk. . . mat. . . p rom. . , &c. eph. . , , . math. . , , luk. . q eph. . . . rom. . . r rom. . . ier. . . s eph. . . rom. . . tim. . . t eph. . . ier. . . u tim. . . act. . . w eph. . . rom. . . x thes. . . rom. . . y ephes. . , . ioh. . . z ephes. . . rom. . . a rom. . , , , . b iude. . c mat. . . rev. . . & . . d iude. . rom. . , . e rom. . , . f . , . a ioh. . . . col. . . b iob . and . . c isa. . . iob. . . d gen. . . psal. . . . and . . heb. . . e psal. . f gen. . exod . a act. . . . tim. . . ps. . . b psal. . . & . . c neh. . . d ps. . . e psal. . , . and . . & . . luk. . . f prov. . . . ioh. . . psal. . . eph. . . ioh. . . g dan. . , , psa. . . iob. . , , , . ps. . . & . , . mat. . . prov. . . . king. . . h amos . . isa. . . lam. . , . i prov. . , . exod. . . king . . k ezek. . . deut. . . isa. , . . gen. . . . sam. . . l deut. . , , chron. . act. . . m . king. . , . sam. . . . n iam. . . o . ioh. . . p isa. . , . . q eccle. . , r gen. . . rom. . . s eccles. . . t hos. . . u psal. . . and . . w king. . . hos. . , . x deut. . . & . , . king . , isay. . . y cor. . , . iudg. . , . chron. . . sam. , . amos . . ier. . , z ps. . , . eccles. . . hos. . . ps. . , , . a iosh. . , . & . . & king. . , . dan. . . king. . . b ps. . . heb. . . luk. . . c mat. . . d luk. . . e ps. . . pet. . . f sam. . . mat. . . g isa. . . ezek. . . dan. . . h gen. . . luk. . . i isa. . , . ps. . . k heb. . . a gen. . . b rom. . , . ier. . . c gen. . , , . d gen. . . rom. . . e gen. . . a tim . b gen . . c rom. . , . & . . cor. . . d tim . . rom. . . , e rom . : f gen. . . and . . a ioh. . . b rom. . . c rom. . . eph . and , . d gen. . . and . . rom. . . e rom. . , . and . . and . . f thes. . . ier. . . tit. . . rom. . . gal. . . rom. . . g eph. . , . mat. . , &c. iam. . . h iam. . . i gen. . . k math. . , , . l col. ▪ . isa. . . m rom . . &c. iam. . . ioh. . . eccles. . . n isa. . . hos. . , . o rom. . , . p gen. . . q gen. . . ier. . . r math. . , , . and . , . pro. . . and . . a gen. . . rom. . . and . . b col. . . c deut. . . and . . d deut. . . e gen. . , . f rom. . , . g deut. , , , , . gen . . h deut. . , . pro. . . i deut. , . k deut. . , , , , , . l mal . . . psal. . . m rom. . . eph. . . isa. . n eph. . . cor . . tim. . . o math. . , , . ioh. . . rom. . , , , . p psal. . . rom. . , , , q exod. . . r isa. . , . s thes. . . t math. . . thes. . . u luk. . . rev. . . and . . w luk. . . psal. . . x luk. . , . y math. . . luk. . . z pet. . . a isa. . . b rev. . . c math. . . a rom. . . b isa. . . rom. . . c gen. . . d rom. . . e psal. . . c iob . . & . . rom. . . a isa. . . pro. . . iohn . . & . . col. . . rev. . . b rev. . . iohn . . c iohn . . & . , . rev. . . mat. . . d iohn . . mat. . . eph. . . e iohn . . . col. . . f mat. . . g luke . . & . . mat. . h heb. . . iohn . . i exod. . . k acts . . l acts . . m tim. . . mat. . . n iohn . . o heb. . . luke . . p heb. . . q heb. . . r heb. , . s gal. . . t mat. . . luke . , . heb. . . a pet. . . tim. . . b 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, , . m mark . . n math : . . . o luk. . . p ioh. c . . q ioh. . r ioh. . . . s mat. . . t acts . . u cor. . . w act. . . eph. . . . x ioh. . . and . . y rom. . . z luk. . . psa. . . and . . isa. . . . . a rom. . . cor. . b rom. . . . phil. . , . . c rom. . . cor. . . pet. . . d pet. . . rom. . . eph. . . . col. . . and . e cor. . , , . rom. . . cor. . a ioh. . . b mat. . . and . . and rev. . . c ioh. . mat. . . act. . . d mark . . . act. . . . . e eph. . . f luk . . psal. . . g heb. . . and . . and . . h luk. . . i psa. . . k eph. . . . l iohn . , . & . . acts . . m iohn . . . a pet. . . b psa. . c ioh. . . a ier. . . ioh. . , . and . . isa. . . b iohn . . c act. . . d eph : : : e acts , . phil. . . cor. , . rom. . . f rom. . , . act. . . g gal. . . rom. . . h rom. . . and , , . i rom. . : exod. . , . k rom. . . l ioh. . . act. , . . tim. . . m ioh. . . n ioh. . . o luk. . , . and , , , . p mat : . . ioh : . . isa. . . . ● cor : . . q iohn . , ier. . . iohn . . rom. . . r zac. . . s 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gal. . , . s eph. . cor. . . t rom. . . heb. . , . iohn . . u rom . . w gal . . rom. . . x matth. . , , . a cor. . . cor. . . b thess. . . thess. . . c isai . . eph. . . d acts . . & . . e thes. . . f cor. . . eph. . , . rom. . , , . g ier. . cor. . . rom. h pet. . gal. . . i rom. . , , , , , . phil. . , . isai . . k psal. . . & . . iob . , , , , , . a cor. . , . thes. . . with thes. . . b mat. . . & . . c rom. . . thes. . . iob . . d pet. . . eph. . pro. . . & . . e psa. . & . . thes. . . f rom. . . cor. . g mark . . luke . . h acts . , . i psa. . . k acts . , , , . & . . & acts . . & luke . . l tim . . pre. . . luke . , , , . m pet. . , . iam. . . n eccl. . , . o deut. . , , . ier. . , . p isay . . acts . . q nehem. . . luke . . acts . . r mat. . . luke . . s heb. . . thes. . . t cor. . . heb. . , . psal. . . u deut. . . luke . . . psalm . . w deut. . . luke . . & . . x chro. . . cor. . , . y iam. . , , , . mat. . , . ezek. . , . z exod. . mat. . . & . . a acts . . & . . b eph. . c mat. . d rom . gal. . . cor. . . e acts . . mark . . f tit. . . eph. . . rom. . . g acts . . & . , . & . . h acts . gen. . . cor. . . k iohn . . rom. . . l eph. . . iohn . . m iohn . . and eph. . . iohn . . n cor. . . o exod. . , . & cor. . , . p zac. . . isai . . rev. . . iohn . . q heb. . . iohn . . r psal. . . hag. . , . s mat. . , . cor. . . t cor. . , . a psa. . . sam. . b rom. . , . c hos. . . psa. . . d iohn . . lam. . . ps. . & . . e kings . . f heb. . . gen. . . g mat. . h rom. . . i psa. . . k sam. . , . l mat. . , . m iohn . . n tim. . , . o mat. . . iam. . . p mat. . . luke . . acts . . q iohn . . r iohn . . s mat. . . t psal. . . u iam. . . psal. . w ezek. . . sam. . . x iohn : . y psal. . . z pro. . . and psal. . . a mat. . , . b isai . . c iam. . , . mat. . . d iam. . . e luke . . & f iam. . . g iohn . . acts . . h psal. . . & . . i deut. . . mal. . . luke . . a col. . . eph. . , . heb. . . b cor. . . & . , . & . . rev. . . & . . c eph. . , . and . . d rom. . . cor. . . & . . rev. . . and . : f mat. . , . iude. . act. . , . rev. . , , . g isa. . . ioh. . . h eph. . . pet. . . i deut. . , , , . ezek . . ier. . , . k eph. . . and . . col. . . l mat. . . m mat. . . isa. . , . rev. . . n psal. . ioh. . . and ioh. . . o rev. . . rom. . . p act . . and . . and . , . q eph. . , . r acts . . peter . , . s thes. . . rev. . , . t eph. . . and . , . and . . col. . . a isay . . and . . ioel . . rev. . . & . . eph. . . phil. . . b mat. . . and . . cant. . , . isay . , . zech. . . acts . , , and , . . c deut. . , , , . ezek. . . ier. . , . zech. . . , . a iohn . . b matth. . . iam. . . c ezra . , , ▪ isai . . d ezra . . e mat. . . acts . . & . . & . . & . , . f rev. . . & . . g mat. . . h phil. . . tim. . , . i tim . . acts . , . pet. . , , . k eph. . . l tim. . . m tim. . . n tim. . , . o rom. . . cor. . p tit. . . q rom. . cor. . . r tim. . . s mat. . . & . . luke . . cor. . . rom. . . tim. . . t acts . . & . , . chron. . . & chron. . . neh. . . u rom. . . neh. . . w ezek. . . acts . . x tim. . . & . , y tim. . , &c. titus . , , &c. kings . . & . . a mat. . & . . b iohn . . c thess. . thess. . . d mat. . . cor. . . e gal. . . f cor . . cor. . . gal. . . g iude . . num. . , , . h mat. . , &c. i lev. . . gal. . . mat. . , . l mal. . . m cor. . . tim. . . n deut. . . tim. . . cor. . , . o sam. . . rom. . . p matth. . . q cor. . . thes. . . r r iohn . . a hos. . . col. . . b deut. . . c mat. . . & . , . ephes. . , . deut. . . micah . . d isai . . mat. . , , . & . , , . e heb. . . mat. . . iohn . . f exod. . . neb. . . isai . . g gor. . , . h gal. . . rom. . . , . i mat. . . col. . . k mal. . . cor. . . num. . . l rom. . , . m rom. . . & . iohn . . n ier. . ezek. . . o deut. . . & . . p chro. . . psal. . . . and . . . q deut. . mat. . . r lam. . , . ier. . . psal. . . s ier . . isay . . acts . . t psal. . . and . . and . . phil. . . u psal. . . titus . . w psa. . . ier. . . iohn . . x isay . . heb. . . ier. . , . y gen. . . mat. . , . . z acts . . dan. . . . and . . a rom. . . psal. . . b exod. . . psal. . . c ier. . . math. . . eph. . . phil. . . d deut. . . acts . . luke . , . e tim. . , . acts. . . and . . luke . . f mat. . , . and . . &c. , g acts . . and . . h acts . . and . , . &c. i mat. . &c. cor. . , . k mat. . deut. . . zech. . , , , . luke . , l exod. . . . num. . . kings , , , . and . . mat. . . col. . , , , . m eccl. . . psal. . . exod. . , , , n heb. . , . psal. . . o chro. . . isay . luke . . p rom. . . iohn . ▪ tim. . . q luke . . mat. . . r cor. . . cor. . . s cor. . , , , , . t deut. . . u psa. . . isay . , . w chron . x acts . . y mat. . . ezek. z cor. . . a mal. . , , , , . b king . , . exod. . . c isay . . exod. . . . and . . neh. . , , . ier. . . . d lev. . . eph. . , , . e eph. . , . f eph. . , , , . g rom. . , . tit. . h tim. . . thes. . , . i lev. . . iob. . , . k rom. . . pet. . . l exod. . . numb. . . , , . m tit. . . n mat. . . eph. . , . o tit. . . p prov. . . acts . . q mat. . . col. . . r deut. . . iude . s math. . . pet . . gen. . . t cor. . . eph. . . and . . u pro. . . tim. . , . eph. . . w pro. . . gen. . . x lev. . . rom. . , . y lev. . , . z gen. . . cor. . . a lev. . . b cor. . , . c gal. . . eph. . . d gen. . . thes. . , . e heb. . . eph. . . tim. . , . f psal. . . kings . . rom. . . g lev. . , . amos . . h lev. . . pro. . . ezek. . . & . i eph. . . zech. . , . k thes. . . lev. , , . l heb. phil. . . tim. . . m kings . , . rom. . n rom . . iob. . . a heb. . psal. . . b heb. . . c . kings . ▪ d cor. . , . e gen. . . & . . rom. . . cor. . , . f isai . . revel. . . g phil. . . isai . . iohn . . h isai . . rev. . . i eccl. . . phil. . . cor. . , . luke . . acts . . k gen. . . psal. . . l luke . . m acts . . n iohn . , . o cor. . . iob . , . p phil. . . q cor. . , , . r rom. . . cor. . . thes. . . s iohn . . t acts . . u mark , . w pet. . . thes. , , . x acts . . luke . . rev. . . y luke . . tit. . z thes. . . pet. . , . a thess. . . b thess. . . iude . mat. . . c thes. . . d mat. . . e rev. . . mark . , . f luke . . eph. . . rom. . . g psal. . . h cor. . . cor. . . i cor. . . mat. . . pet. . . k cor. . . iohn . , . heb. . . l thes . . m psal. . . a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston, in new england, sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there, directed to a friend vvith the questions propounded to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship and the covenant it selfe. way of the churches of christ in new-england cotton, john, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing c ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing c estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; :e , no ) a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston, in new england, sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there, directed to a friend vvith the questions propounded to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship and the covenant it selfe. way of the churches of christ in new-england cotton, john, - . [ ], p. s.n.], [london? : . reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng congregational churches -- discipline. a r (wing c ). civilwar no a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston, in new england, sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders cotton, john c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - tcp staff (oxford) sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston , in new england , sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there , directed to a friend . vvith the questions propounded to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship , and the covenant it selfe . printed in the yeare . a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston , in an answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there , directed to a friend . with the questions put to such as are admitted to the church fellowship and the covenant it selfe . there have been things ( as it seemeth ) reported unto you ; first , that we receive none into our church-fellowship untill they first disclaime their churches in england as no churches , but as limbs of the devill ; now , i answer , god forbid , god forbid : it is true , one sheba of ●ukry blew a trumpet of such a ●●●●tious separation ; i meane , one mr. williams late t●●c●●r of salem , but himselfe and others that followed ●●st●●y in that way , who were all excommunicated out of the church and banished out of the common-wealth , for men in that way and of such a spirit are wont not onely to renounce the churches of england , but ours also , because we held communion with them in england in the things which are of god ; see therefore how unjustly wee are slandered for renouncing communion with you , as is mentioned , and for it they themselves are punished in our common wealth , censures in our churches ; for such antichristian exorbit●res : by this you may see the objection clearely answered . the second calumny is , that our members must professe their repentance for all former communion with the churches among you : now for the answer , wee professe no such things , but onely in generall so farre as we have polluted our selves with any corruptions or inventions of men , or defiled gods ordinances with any corruption of their owne , whereby you may gather answer from the second calumny . the third calumny is , that we enter into covenant solemnly , never to have communion with the present churches of england , whereas in truth we never have such words or meaning in any part of our covenant , but that we professe to walke in all the ordinances of the lord , according to his will revealed in his word . of the fourth report you mention , there is some ground for it , our practise , power indeed is given among us to the people to chuse their ministers , so likewise to receive any member unto the church fellowship , and to joyne in the excommunication of such as grow scandalous . which yet is very rare . among us through the goodnesse of god scarce two or three have beene excommunicated out of our churches , which is more for rejecting communion with the churches , than for any other crime : it is true also , that we allow any members of the church to complaine of an offence given him by any brother , if a private way of admonition according to the rule have not reformed him , matth. . . but that hath fallen out very seldome since i came hither , for ought i have heard , either in our owne or other churches , they much wrong both you and us who told you that master wilson was suspended from his ministry for his journey into england , or for any communion he had with the churches there ; nor to my remembrance did any of the brethren question him about it , till of himselfe he began to give some account of his journey to the church , and then indeede two or three grave and godly men desired him to cleare a passage or two ; first , how he could leave the whole congregation above twelve moneths together without their consent , and how he could leave his wife ( as i remember ) without her consent ; to both which he gave a satisfactory answer , and was not at all suspended by the church , but of himselfe he forbare one day , or at the least halfe a day , till hee had declared both the particulars ; that which you adde of grace and gifts of christ , or of his presence in the ministry of his servants among you , we willingly & thankefully acknowledge and do professe , that the hope which most of us have obtained of the common salvation wee received from the preaching of gods faithfull ministers among you , wee cannot , we dare not deny to blesse the wombe which bare us , and the paps which gave us sucke ; and long may these lights shine among you , with all peace , purity , and power , amen . what you speake of separatists and brownists ; wee generally here doe consent with you , that the bitternesse of separation whereby men doe not onely cut themselves from the inventions of men , but also from the ordinances of god and fellowship of his servants ; for who so have done , they never were blessed with peace : as for those scruples you pray me to weigh without prejudice , we here doe consent with you therein , only there is a passage or two which i crave leave to explaine my self in first that you say our pastor m. wilson affirmes among you that wee did not follow calvins platforme as an episcopall he saith , he doth not remember any such word to have fallen from him , onely thus much he confesseth , as we doe all here , that wee doe not transact all things so reservedly in a consistory , but though wee bee prebestary , doe prepare all things for the church , yet wee transact no publique act , but in their presence , and with their consents , unlesse any of their brethren can give a reason from the scripture to the contrary , or some better intelligence of his owne , which latter sometimes falls out ; secondly , what you speake of prophesying , i neede not say much of it , it is very warily used here , unlesse it be in absence , and weakenesse of ministers , and for any abuse herein allow it not , but dislike it as you doe : now you have shewed so much for to inquire the truth of these matters , i pray you informe others also what answer you have received , which will be a further testimony of your love ; pray for us , as we doe for you , so taking leave i rest , your unworthy weake brother in christ , iohn cotton . questions put to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship . how it pleased god to worke in them , to bring them home to christ , whether the law have convinced them of sinne , how the lord hath wonne them to deny themselves and their owne righteousnesse , and to rely on the righteousnesse of christ , then they make a briefe confession , or else an answer to a few questions about the maine fundamentall points of religion , that it may appeare indeed whether they be competently endued with the knowledge of the truth , and sound in the faith , and about the godhead , the trinity , the worke , our first estate of innocency the fall our redemption , christ his natures , his offices , faith , the sacraments , the church , the resurrection , the last judgement , such as every christian man is bound to learne and give account of ; we refuse none for weakenesse , either knowledge or grace , if the whole be in them , and that any of the church can give testimony of their christian and sincere affections , and then the church consenting to their admission , one of the elders propounded to the party , the covenant that hee must enter into with god and the church , whereunto the party expresly covenants , then is reciprocally received the churches covenant backe againe by the voyce of the elder . this is all the secret we have among us , neither have we any more secret carriage , than this which no godly man that ever came over to us have ever disliked , you come not more willingly to have communion with us , then we receive you , upon no harder termes then have been declared . the covenant it selfe . since it hath pleased god to move you brethren to hold forth the right hand of fellowship ; it is your part , and that which i am to require of you in the name of the lord , and of his church , before you can be admitted there unto , whether you be willing to enter a holy covenant with god , and with them and by the grace and helpe of christ be willing to deny your selfe , and all your former polutions , and corruptions , wherein in any sort you have walked , and so to give up your selfe to the lord iesus , making him your onely priest and attonement , your onely profit , your onely guide and king , and lawgiver , and to walke before him in all professed subjections unto all his holy ordinance , according to the rule of the gospell , and to walke together with his church and the members thereof in brotherly love , and mutuall edification and succor according to god ; then doe i also promise unto you in the name of this church , that by the helpe of christ , we likewise will walke towards you in all brotherly love and holy watchfulnesse to the mutuall building , up one of another in the fellowship of the lord iesus , amen , amen . finis . the fiery tryal no strange thing delivered in a sermon preached at charlestown february , , being a day of humiliation / by samuel willard teacher of a church in boston in new-england. willard, samuel, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing w estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the fiery tryal no strange thing delivered in a sermon preached at charlestown february , , being a day of humiliation / by samuel willard teacher of a church in boston in new-england. willard, samuel, - . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for samuel sewall, boston in new-england : . reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng fast-day sermons. congregational churches -- sermons. sermons, american -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the fiery tryal no strange thing ; delivered in a sermon preached at charlstown , february . . being a day of humiliation : by samvel willard teacher of a church in boston in new england . matth. . : think not that i am come to send peace on earth : i came not to send peace , but a sword . vel resignemus christianam militiam . vel parati simus ad quasvis pro christo tribulationes ferendas . musculus . boston in new-england printed for samuel sewall . . to the reader christian reader , there is nothing , more perplexeth a believer in his race of godliness , than to meet with , & be engaged in such difficultyes as he allotted not upon : those that promised themselves a fair , & easy way in the service of christ , when persecutions arise , anon they are offended in him : our saviour therefore adviseth every man that will undertake to be a christian , first to sit down , & count the c●st . the ensuing discourse will acquaint you with one of the hard lessons of religion ; and tell you what you may rationally propound to your selves , as likely to meet withall between this , & glory : nor is this to discourage , and make you to repent , as of an hard bargain ; ( for an eternal weight of glory , will more than compensate all the tribulations you can go through , in the way to it ) but to call you to preparation : that the newness of it may not amuse you ; nor the greatness of it affright you . how seasonable such a word is , let the times speake . if what is here spoken may in any wise help your faith , it shall not be labour lost ; which that it may , i commend it , & you to the grace of god , who am your servant for christ , samuel willard . pet. iv. xii . beloved , think it not strange concerning the fiery tryal ▪ which is to try you , as though some strange thing hapned to you . this epistle ( as is to be seen by the title or inscription of it ) was directed to christians dispersed and scattered up and down the world. whether they were the remainder of the babylonish captivity , who returned not with their brethren into indea ; or the dispersion occasioned by the cruelty of antiochus , in the dayes of the machabees , of which the apostle paul , heb. . . &c. or those that fled in the persecution raised soon after the death of stephen : recorded act. . beginning ( to each of which interpreters do differently incline ) i determine not . but they were such as laboured under the exercise of manifold afflictions , as appears from chap. . v. . now , &c. you are in heaviness through many temptations . for their relie● and encouragement our apostle doth in every chapter commix some consolatory and wholsome advise to strengthen and animate them to patience , and help their perfeiting : and in the latter part of this chapter , beginning at this th ▪ verse , he more particularly counsels , and quickens them about this matter . these words are introductory to the discourse , and taken by themselves ( and we need not at present look further ) do contain an exhortation or direction , how to entertain the great tryals that were like to come upon them ; or rather a caution and negative injunction , or a prohibition , respecting the observation they should make of , and inference they might draw from those troubles . in the words observe . . the compellation , beloved : the afflictions of the saints should not alienate our affections from them , or render them any whit less amiable in our eyes : there is no reason why our love should abate , or hearts grow strange to the people of god , because they are persecuted and hated by the world. jesus christ loves them , and declares them blessed , mat. . . and if they are beloved by christ , they deserve it of us , if we would be like him : nay their sufferings are for christ , and on that score ought they to be dear to us , as they stand up for his honour : nay and they are for the church of christ too , col. . . we have our share in the benefit , which challengeth for them a share in our love . . the subject matter about which the exhortation is given , viz. the fiery tryal : the word ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) signifies burning , and so it is translated , rev. . . thus also some render it here . it designs the more sharp and severe exercises of affliction , such as are occasioned by the violent oppression and persecution of enemies , which are frequently in scripture phrase expressed by the metaphor of fire , from the manifold resemblance which is between them : it is here translated fiery tryal , respecting the end which god looks at in ordering it to befal his people , and that is further expressed and amplified in the description ; which is to try you ; the greek is , which befals you for a temptation or tryal , intimating to us the great design of god in all , even the severest afflictions which his children suffer ; nor is it a vain tautologie , but a needful amplification ; flesh and blood being very ready to count of it as rather to destroy , then to prove their faith. . the exhortation it self ; think it not strange , the word is , be ye not like to ghests or strangers ▪ and it is used for those which are troubled with admiration at some new and strange thing . the apostle therefore expounds himself at the latter end of the verse : as if some strange thing had hapned unto you .. . or , as if a stranger came to you : so some read it : and his meaning is , that they should not entertain it as a thing which they had no expectation of , and were thereupon moved with wonder and surprize at the coming of it . i shall not here endeavour to express all that might usefully be observed from the words , but among many truths that might hence be treated of , make choice of that comprehensive one , for our present meditation . viz. doct. it becomes not the people of god to look upon the fiery tryal which befals the church of christ in the world , as a strange thing . we may take up the explication in three things : . what is meant by fiery tryals ? . what it is to count them strange ? . the ground of the doctrine . . what is meant by fiery tryals ? a. tryals in propriety of speech , are such experiments as are made , for the finding out of the nature , qualities , and operation of things , when they are applied , in our speech , to rational agents , they then intend , either an essay or endeavour to draw , and by arguments to perswade men to any thing which we have a design to make use of them in , and so they are called temptations , and in which sence mainly , the devil is called the tempter , because he useth all endeavours to insinuate into , and gain men to follow his suggestions : or else a proof which we are minded to make of the fidelity , sincerity , and constancy which is in a person , that we may know him the better , and so they are more peculiarly called tryals : in this sence it is said , a wise man will try before he will trust ; thus god put abrahams faith and obedience to the tryal , gen. . beginning . afflictions in scripture language often bear the name of tryals , because by them proof is made of professors , and men are tried so as to be discovered , oftentimes , whither they be indeed sincere or hypocritical ; and indeed it is one of the best evidences we can have of mens integrity , when these drive them not from , but establish them in their profession . when the epithete fiery , is added to tryals , it serves to denote such afflictions as are the most sharp and severe , and do the most of all put a christians constancy to the test : and among these , the apostle ( as by our context is manifest ) doth here intend , such as are occasioned by persecution ; those things which the people of god are called to suffer in defense of the gospel , against the cruelty of raging enemies ; of which sort are imprisonments , stripes , revilings , exile , confiscation of goods , and the like : these are called fiery , metaphorically , because such is the pain , grief , and trouble which they put the mind of man to , and sometimes his body also , as render them exceeding difficult to bear ; and because as fire they serve to purge and cleanse them from many pollutions : yea , and sometimes they are so termed properly , because the persecutors of the church , do often prosecute the true professors of jesus christ with fire and fagot : and they are called tryals , because ( whatsoever the instruments of them aim at in executing them upon the people of god ) they are designed by god himself , who is the soveraign and supream disposer of all things , to be probationary , and used as a refiners fire to purge out the dross , and not to wast the good mettal which is cast into it , mal. . . . what it is to count them strange ? a. we look upon such things to be strange , which are , . things unusual , and with which we have no acquaintance : such things as rarely happen , as scarce come once in an age , are esteemed to be strange things : a man whom we never or seldome saw before , and with whom we have not taken up any familiarity or friendship , is usually counted and called a stranger : familiarity and strangeness are opposed each to other : so that then we count the fiery tryal a strange thing , when we look upon it as a thing unusual , a thing not wont to befal the people of god , a rare thing ; so the phrase is used , luk. . . we have seen strange things to day : such as ages have not produced the like . . things unexpected ; such as come upon us at unawares , which we did not so much as dream of ; it never entred into our thoughts to look for , and apprehend any the least probability or likelihood of such events . those things which we do expect , they are not strange to us when they come , and that because we were in our expectance familiarized with them ; but when they come suddenly , they surprize us : when we expected and promised our selves to live at ease , and not to be molested , and now trouble comes , we are amused : and thus strangeness is opposed to expectance , so it is used ioh. . . a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity , i. e such as they were secure in their thoughts against , and siezed on them unlooked for . . things whereof we cannot give a reason : the cause of them is hidden from our cognizance , and we understand not either whence they come , or what they come for ; strange and admirable are sometimes used synonimically , so the word is used , pet. . . they think it strange that you run not , &c. i. e. they wonder at it , and think there is no reason for it : now admiration is a suspension of the understanding , when we see an effect , and are not able to dive into the cause of it : when we see that a thing is , and then sit down and consider either whence , or why it is , and cannot satisfie our selves about it , we then wonder , and place it among the number of strange things : and such an opinion had the psalmist conceived of the fiery tryal , psal . . . when i thought this . i. e. the reason of these dispensations forementioned , it was too painful for me ; his understanding was not able to bear the disquisition . . we shew that we look at things as strange , when we carry it to them as unto strangers ; and that is in two things principally ; . when we suspect them to come for no good to us , but rather for mischief : jealousie is a frame or disposition , wherewith we do frequently entertain strangers : it is very natural , and therefore usual for us to think of such , that they have some evil design upon us ; which jealousie occasions us to keep a critical eye upon them , and warily to watch all their words and actions , yea their very looks and gestures ; and let them pretend to never so much friendship , yet we are hard of belief , thus hanun suspected davids servants : thus iacob looked upon his afflictions , when he concluded these things are against me , gen. . . and iob when he uttered that complaint , iob . . he hath also kindled his wrath against me , and he counteth me to him as one of his enemies . . when they are a burden and wearisomeness to us , and we had rather have their room than their company : and this is a fruit of the former ; for when we expect no good by them , but suspect some design of evil upon us from them , it makes their presence a burden and grief to us ; and this puts us upon it to desire , and eagerly long for their departure , and if they tarry long we are quite tired out with them , and would use any course to be rid of them , they are such unwelcome guests to us : thus did hezechiah isai . . . i reckoned till morning , that as a lion he will break all my bones : from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me . . for the ground of the doctrine : or why it becomes not the people of god thus to esteem of the fiery tryal ; this is evident upon a double account : for so to think is both in it self unreasonable , and also prejudicial to the people of god. . it is a conclusion very unreasonable ; there is no just reason to be rèndred for such a thought : if we will ponder every circumstance , we shall see it evident that it is not a strange thing in it self , and must therefore be irrationally so judged by us ; for , . it is no unusual thing , but very frequent : we have the saints of all ages for examples ; there is a whole cloud of witnesses testifying to this truth : ever since righteous abel lost his life for christ , to this day , there hath been in all ages almost more or less of the fiery tryal upon gods children : it was thus with israel in egypt , who were made to serve in hard labour , and in cruel bondage , and are therefore represented as a bush on fire and not consumed : yea their whole passage through the wilderness , what was it , but a going through fire and water . so the psalmist expresseth it , psal . . . we went through fire , and through water . and besides the fires kindled upon the church , particular saints have their fires also to try them : sore and sharp afflictions , this is davids complaint in respect of himself , psal . . . my soul is among lions , and i lie even among them that are set on fire . nay god speaks of his church as a place where he constantly keeps a furnace for their tryal ; hence he makes it a paraphrase upon his name , or one attribute whereby he may be known by us , isai ▪ . . the lord , whose fire is in zion , and his furnace in jerusalem . . it cannot rationally be looked upon as an unexpected thing . this will appear , ( if laying aside all other grounds of it ) we only consider that god hath forewarned his people of it , and told them that it shall be : for either we must think that he speaks not as he intends , and so would deceive us with vain fears , or else that he is ignorant of it , and so we must deny his supream providence in all these events , or else we must take his predictions for evidence of the futurity of it : the scripture frequently puts us in mind of , and counsels us to prepare for such times : it declares it not only as a thing possible , which yet should prevent our security ; or probable , which yet will put a wise man upon expectation ; but future , or a thing which must be , it was one of the last warnings which our saviour christ gave to his disciples , and with which he closeth up his last sermon to them , just before he was taken from them , joh. . ult . in this world ye shall have tribulation . the apostles of christ looked upon it as a necessary doctrine to be taught all the people of god , and were therefore careful to instruct them in it in all places where they came , acts . , . that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdome of god. paul ascerteins timothy , that it is a catholick verity , a thing to be expected by all , as being equally extensive to a godly life , tim. . yea and all that will live godly in christ jesus must suffer persecution . so that not to expect it , is an implicite denyal , at least calling in question of the truth of the gospel . . neither is the reason of it abstruse or difficult , but if we look into all the causes of it , we may discern sufficient ground for it : for , . if we consider the principal agent in it , who is god , ( for it is his sovereign providence , which determineth and disposeth of all the changes which come over his people ) it follows from his infinite wisdome , goodness , and love to his children , so far is it from contradicting any of these , ( whatever prejudices the carnal reasonings of our dark under standings may take up ) as will appear , if we consider the use and improvement which he makes of it : our text informs us , that it is to try them , in which tryal ( like a refiner ) he makes his own people more fit for the use and service of their lord and master . for , . by it he burns off the dirt that clave to them : mettal when it is first taken out in ▪ ore from the mineral , hath much of heterogeneous matter ( dirt and filth ) cleaving to it , and that the fire burns off : so do these fiery tryals that come upon the church , they make it too hot for nominal professors to abide by it ; as close as they seemed to cleave to the people of god in a seeming profession before , now they must fall off ; the stony ground is offended when tribulation and persecution ariseth , mat. . . hypocrites cannot long abide the fiery trial , but when it grows hot upon them , they relinquish their religion , and comply with the world , to avoid trouble . . by this also he separates the dross from the good mettal : when the dirt is removed away the mettal indeed looks brighter , and makes a fairer shew , but yet there is a great deal of dross and dregs in it , which render it less precious , and more unserviceable , but the fire melts that out , separares it , and leaves the rest by far more pure : there may possibly be abundantly less of it , but that which is , is of a great deal more value ; the people of god themselves have much of dross and corruption cleaving to them ; and that especially in times of outward peace and prosperity , but when god brings a fiery tryal upon them , it refines and purgeth them : this is the very design of god in these dispensations , isai . . . by this shall the iniquity of jacob be purged , and all the fruit is to take away sin . and chap. . . i will turn my hand upon thee , and purely purge away thy dross , and take away thy tin . . yea , and by this too , he melts down the good mettal : the fire prepares and fits the mettal by melting to take any form , to be cast into any mold which the founder designs : by sore afflictions the people of god are made more humble , and made pliable to any command of god : they are sometimes stiffe and inflexible in dayes of prosperity , but now they subject themselues to the framing hand of god , and are ready to receiue his stamp and impression , zech. . . i will refine them as silver , &c. and what then ? why now they shall call on my name , and shall say the lord is my god. . if we consider the procuring cause of it , and that is the sin and provocation of his people . sometimes indeed god sends it meerly as probationary , so he did to job , but usually there is something on our part , putting some sort of necessity upon god to proceed in this way with us : the church of god here hath its converse in an evil world , where , by reason of the remainders of indwelling corruption , apt to take the infection of many temptations , they are contracting a great deal of filth and pollution , so that their necessity seemeth to call for a fiery tryal , to burn off their cords of vanity , to purge and purifie them from these corruptions . they that are acquainted with their own hearts , and know how much they have dishonoured god in dayes of peace , quiet , and liberty , will easily judge and acknowledge that it is not without very just ground , and good reason that he often brings trouble and persecution upon them . the prophet therefore pleads it with the people of god , jer. . . hast thou not procured this unto thy self ? & . . thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee . . if we look upon those that are the instrumental causes of it , which are satan and wicked men , neither herein will it appear wonderful ; either , . that they are ready and forward to afflict and persecute the people of god : he must needs be strangely unacquainted with their native malice , that thinks it is a strange thing : it hath been a truth from the beginning , that the world ever hated the church : they hated christ first , and thence it is no wonder if they hate his people too : our saviour christ to shew what entertainment his disciples are to expect in the world , compares his people to sheep among wolves , mat. . behold i send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves . and the wolf seeks no other quarrel against the sheep , but that he is a sheep , and if he can , will devour him , right or wrong : to be a servant of jesus christ , a sincere professor of the gospel , is enough to stir up the hate and malice of the world : caius sejus bonus homo , sed ●hristianus , if they can in no other point charge them , yet this very name renders them odious : its charge enough if they can charge them in the matters of their god : and we may as well wonder , why serpents hate men , as why the old serpents seed hate the seed of the woman . nor , . that god useth them as instruments , neither is this any wonder , since they are the fittest materials to make his rods of : these are rods which will smart most : their hatred makes them most ready to afflict and chastise the church withal : it is true , if they were principal agents , and left to act their own pleasure they were very unfit , for they think only of the ruine and desolation , but not of the tryal and reformation of the people of god ; but as instruments in the hand of god , they will make it smart , but cannot do any hurt : agen , they are therein the fittest to make rods of , that when god hath done with them , and chastened his people by them , they may be thrown into the fire : yea in this respect god makes eminent discovery of his infinite wisdome in the choice of instruments , because in this way he takes an advantage to prove the reality of his love to his people , then when he is most angry with them . it is therefore worthy our diligent observation , that though god be never so angry with his people , and cause his wrath to burn never so high against them , yet then he so loves them , that he will be avenged on the very instruments of his displeasure upon them , and therefore makes choice of his , and his churches enemies to punish them withal : why doth god call babylon to come down and sit in the dust ? isai . . . we have the reason rendred in ver . . i was wrath with my people , and gave them into thy hand , and thou hast shewn them no mercy . though babylon did no more then what god both intended and threatned : there cannot be a more manifest token of men hated by god , and appointed to destruction , then to be raised up to be persecutors and oppressors of the church and people of god , whatever their iniquities and provocations may have been . . if we consider the end of these fiery tryals , and that ariseth from the improvement which god , who is the prime agent in them , makes thereof , and it is to be discovered and observed by us in the operation ; the substance of it is , it is to make his people more humble , more holy , more serviceable to the glory of his own great name , more profitable in their generation , and better fitted and prepared for the kingdome of glory , moses summs up all briefly , deut. . . where having given an account of the difficulties , and fiery tryals which israel met with in the wilderness , he certifies them that the design of all these was only this , that he might humble thee , and that he might prove thee , to do thee good in thy latter end . . it is prejudicial to the people of god : for them to place such an account upon the fiery tryal is much to their disadvantage : for that , . it tempts us to rob god of that glory which is his due , and we ought to give him in the fires : god expects to be glorified by his people , but whiles we look with amazement , and these things astonish us , , we are more ready to dishonour him , by calling his wisdome , love , goodness , truth , &c. into question , if we count the fiery tryal strange , we shall answerably have strange thoughts of god , and hard thoughts of religion , so he , psal . . . & . , . . it will wonderfully weaken our faith in god , our trust and reliance on his promises , it confounds faith when a soul knows not what to make of things : while jonah is amazed , he begins to draw up a conclusion of desperation , then i said i am cast out of thy sight , jon. . . faith must have its evidence , heb. . . which is lost in these transports . . it will fill the soul full of jealousies and strange suspitions , ready to say of every cross and trouble , this is certainly against me : he will take all for enemies , and think god so too , and say as he , thou settest me for thine enemie . . it will make the tryal by these means far more grievous and hard to bear , it will fret and vex the soul , raise disquietments and discontents ; we shall behave our selves like ephraim , as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke , jer. . . here is the very reason of all the unruly carriages of the people of god at any time under their afflictions , because they have not a right apprehension and opinion of them . . and from all these , we render our selves exceeding uncapable of receiving counsel , or comfort : if god send us advise , we cannot hear it , if consolation , we cannot receive it : thus we read , exod. . . moses spake unto the children of israel , but they hearkened not unto moses , for anguish of spirit , and for cruel bondage . now all these things damnifie us , & so prevent that good which otherwise we might derive to our selves from these exercises , how sharp soever . use . to wave other things , let me apply this truth for the helping of our faith unto a suitable improvement of the fiery tryal which any of the people of god are at this day labouring under ; and which we our selves also have weighty reasons to live in the continual expectation of ; that so we may not so think of it , or entertain it as a strange thing : and to that end that we may have a right judgement , and soul satisfying apprehension of it , let us diligently and prudently compare the works of gods providence , with those intimations which are given us in his word , and it will afford us a true and a full discovery of the true meaning of these things , and that in both respects . . it may satisfie us in regard of that sore persecution which is at this day upon divers of the protestant churches abroad : we hear of many sad and sorrowful calamities which by the malice of satan , and rage of men , are brought upon that cause , and are ready to sit down as men amused , wondering why this is , and wherefore god suffers it , how jesus christ can bear it : let me assure you , it is not because god doth not own and approve of that cause ; it is his own , he hath born , and will bear witness to it ; it is the cause which shall stand when all other shall come tumbling down into ruine : nor is it because god hath cast off his people whom he hath chosen ; for his love to his saints is unchangeable , inviolable : nor is it because he approves of , or takes delight in the contrary prevailing interest , though they indeed make their boast of their successes , and pretend the offering up the liberties and lives of gods people , to be a sacrifice of thanksgiving therefore ; no ; gods curse is on them and their cause , and in due time their foot shall slide , it is then none of these ; but , . the scripture tells us of a time wherein satan is to be let loose , in which he will rage extreamly against the church , rev. ● . . and these are some of those dayes wherein these things are to have their accomplishment , as relating to the persecutions which antichrist was to raise and continue against the saints of the most high. it is true that the rage and malice of satan and his instruments are alwayes eagerly bent to ruine the church ; yet are they tyed up by the sovereign almighty power of god , who stilleth the noise of the seas , and the tumults of the people ; yet if he please to give them leave , and lengthen their chain of restraint , as he did in jobs case , they will vent it to the utmost of their advantage and opportunity : it is a certain truth , that satan and his agents have no other stint or bounds of their malice then the limits of divine permission , they ever do as much as they can , & that they do no more is because god hath an hook in their nosthrils ; now god doth sometimes , for ends infinitely wise , give them leave to do a great deal , and vent abundance of their spleen against his people . . god wills that at sometimes the truth be sealed to by the sufferings of his own people , as well as owned by their profession , that he may make the fulfilling of that truth gloriously resplendent , mat. . . the gates of hell shall not prevail against it . the truth of the gospel is never more honoured in the world , then by faith and patience of suffering saints ; they then glorifie god , and his name is magnified , when his honour , and the profession of his name , and vindication of his truth is more dear and precious to them then their own lives , and they can readily sacrifice them , in the defense of it : hereby their faith appears in its vigour , and it is seen how powerful the spirit of god in them is ▪ the tryal of their faith is a most precious thing , better then that of gold , pet. . . . and herein the excellency of divine love makes it self eminent , in that many waters cannot quench it . . it is certain that the protestant churches abroad in the world have given god a great deal of provocation , by manifold enormities and scandals that have discovered themselves shamefully amongst them . if the judgement of those be right , who conjecture the seven churches in asia , to whom john wrote , rev. , & . do stand for an emblem of the uarious estate of the church to the worlds end , they seem now in these dayes to be fallen under the last and worst paettrn , lukewarm laodicea : it is too true and manifest , that there is but a little true zeal stirring for the glory of god ; though there be abundance of formality : there is but a very little of the power of godliness to be seen , but a great many wickednesses growing and abounding : such prophanation of gods holy sabbaths , that in many places they are disowned , and the morality of the fourth commandment not only called into dispute , but wholly renounced ; abundance of covetousness , uncleanness , prophaness , and many other provoking sins , such as an holy god , will not , cannot bear in a people that are called by his name : they therefore stood in need of a fiery tryal to purge and refine them : they have gathered abundance of dirt and dross , and it is not a small fire that will burn it off , and melt it out : and therefore at such times god is wont to set up his furnace , and provide hot coals for it , cruel and bloody instruments , to execute his just displeasure upon his own people by : thus he threatens israel in case of apostasie , deut. . , . the lord shall bring upon thee a nation , &c. a nation of fierce countenance , which shall not regard the person of the old , and shew favour to the young . . there is a time of reformation expected , and waited for by the people of god , and it is hoped not to be far off ; and this is the very way in which god hath purposed to bring it about : when the lord speaks of the happy reformation of the people of the jews , he propounds such a method as this to do it in , zech. . , . two parts therein shall cut off , and die , and the third part shall be left therein , and i will bring the third part through the fire , &c. gods work of reformation , as it is a glorious , so also it is a terrible work , a work which but a few will be able to endure : it is very probable that two thirds when they come near the fire , and begin to feel it scorch , will not bear it , but seek to avoid it : and thus we hear of many thousands in france that are daily renouncing the protestant cause , and coming over to popery , through fear and cowardize : and the other third part they must pass through the fire that they may be reformed , that when they are tryed , they may come forth as gold : and is there any strange thing in all this ? hence therefore , that we may be settled and not shaken , let us carefully build upon these conclusions . . that the fiery tryal is intended only to try the saints . it is not brought to destroy them , but only to refine and purifie them : were believers thoroughly perswaded of what god meaneth , by these things , they would not be so liable to those frights and amazements which distract and disturb them : our text fortifies this conclusion , restraining them to this proper end and purpose . . that god overrules all instruments : yea , though , as they are rational agents , and causes by counsel of their own actions , they design nothing but mischief , yet he will use them as meer instruments in his hand , not to gain their own projected ends , but his , which they neither know nor design : they shall but do his pleasure , and not their own , isai . . ah assyrian ! the rod of my anger : what can a rod do without an hand to manage it ? no more can they but as god improves them : we look too much on men , and think their power is great , and rage implacable , and now what are we not to expect to suffer ? but remember , their wrath shall but serve to praise god , and the remainder he will restrain . . that gods people , though in the furnace , are yet very precious to him ; yea that he chuseth them in the furnace : israel in affliction is often tempted to say , my god hath forgotten me ; but god assures us that it is far otherwise : they are then as tender to him as the sucking child is to the pitiful mother : you see how god thus expostulates the case with zion in this regard , isai . , , , . . that the fiery tryal shall not be alwayes , but only for the appointed time , until it hath wrought out gods gracious ends , and then deliverance shall come : god will not suffer the rod of the wicked to be alwayes in the lot of the righteous , he knows that if he should , the spirit which he hath given us , would fail and faint ; he hath therefore promised that he will not contend for ever , nor be alwayes wroth , isai . . . that during all that season wherein his people are in the furnace , he sits by and tends it . he sits as a refiner , mal. . . sitting notes a fixed posture ; intimating that god doth not only come now and then , and occasionally take notice how the fire burns , and mettal melts , having mean while other things to divert and divide his care ; but that he makes it his work and business to tend it , and therefore tarries constantly by it ; he throws in every coal with his own hand , and not one coal more then is meet and useful for the work . he useth his skill to make it melt down , and become fit for his mold ; he humbleth his people , and reforms them by their tryals , puts a virtue into them , or gives a blessing with them , whereby effectually and powerfully their corrections become instructions to them , and they are made the better by them : yea they are fitted and prepared to be taken out of the furnace again , and be vessels of honour , imployed in the service of their lord and master . from hence therefore we may be directed both how and what to pray at this day in the behalf of the persecuted church of christ abroad in the world. . how to pray for them , i. e. in faith ; when a thing seems strange to us , it stirs up unbelief : when men cannot tell what to make of these providences which are in their view , they know not how to believe ; they know not where to fix their faith : but when a child of god sees the evidence of things , he hath now the reason of his confidence before him . . what to pray : it will teach us not to over hasten god in his work , but to leave him to his leisure , who in infinite wisdome knows what he hath to do : when the fiery tryal looks strange , all we can think of , is the removal and taking of it away , and we cannot tell how to pray to god for any thing else , because we can see no good in the affliction : but when we are acquainted with the author , nature , and end of all these tryals , it will direct us first of all to pray that god would sanctifie it for the cleansing of his churches ; that he would purifie sons of levi and reform the protestant profession in the world : the church most of all needs our prayers at this day , on this account ; and then we may wait upon god for their deliverance . . it may advise us not to think it a strange or unlikely thing , that we our selves may be brought under the fi●ry tryal , i am sure there are many awful symptomes of it , and more from time to time : yea we are likely enough to pull it down upon our own heads by our foolish divisions , and strange indiscretions : and ready enough we are to censure and charge one another in this kind ; but there is an higher hand moving all these lesser wheels : and if we would look aright , the thing which should mostly aw and affect us is this , that we are become degenerate , we have backslidden and gone aside from god , we have lost our first love , we are grown dirty and drossie , obstinate and hard-hearted , and unwilling to be reclaimed : if therefore god should withdraw from us , and leave our publick affairs to miscarry in our hands , i would say it is of the lord , that he might fulfil the words of his ministers , that told and warned us of dayes of great calamity approaching ; because we would not hear them , and return to our god : and let all such as fear god ponder of these things ; look for , and see abundant reason to expect a winnowing time , a time of burning , a day of great tryal , that when it comes , you may not be taken at unawares , or ( judging it a strange thing ) be surprized with undue terrors and frights ; but may with quietness and patience submit to the work of god in it : so shall you endure the tryal , and not be burnt up , as chaffe and drosse , by it , but be brought out of it again with joy and glorying , inasmuch as it shall be accounted to you for a fi●●ing up of the sufferings of christ , and shall contribute very very much to the compleating and enlargement of your eternal joyes . finis . friendly reader . the desolating judgements by water and fire , with which god hath , and intends to cleanse the world ; are in scripture brought together , and made to illustrate each other . wherefore be not offended at the remaining page , as if its service were unseasonable , and out of place , whenas it relates ( as well as it can ) what the gazetts report concerning the terrible invndation that the low-countryes lately smarted under ; and which was looked upon as one awful consequent of the late formidable blazing star. toward the latter end of january last , there having been for many dayes much rain , and a violent storm , sundry of the united provinces , viz. holland , zealand , brabant , flanders , felt the direful effects thereof : for the sea with wonderful impetuosity broke through and over the banks ▪ which th●se low-countries are defended with , unto the unexpressible distress and amazement of the inhabitants . many villages were reduced to b● wholly under water : even in great cities the waters ore flowed thei● streets , and were divers foot higher than has been fo●merly known ; so that boats passed to and fro , where men were wont to walk . persons were forced to barricado their houses , and ge● into their upper rooms ; yea ( in some places ) to the tops of their houses , where ( t is said ) some were famished to death . in some churches the water was above eight foot high ; and corps were taken out of their graves , and car●ied away therewith . hundreds of dead bodies were seen daily floating down the river , to antwerp . many stately fortifications were spoiled , and strong walls beaten down . sundry places now over thrown , cannot in many years be recovered ; and some never . the lesse ▪ of one city have ●●en judged to amount to some millions . the sufferings of merchants cannot be related . innumerable cattel were destroyed . some great mens estates were laid wholly under water : noble and w●althy families are brought to poverty . if we are not misinformed , above fourscore lands and polders have been overwhelmed . and the dutch have lost more by this flood , than by all their late grievously expensive wars . and ( which is more tremendous ) a vast number of people have lost their lives . in some islands , most of the inhabitants ; and in one polder no less than a thousand have been drowned . in one land where about a thousand dwelt ; but one ( like a job's messenger ) escaped death . yea 't is generally said , that near twenty thousand perished by this overflowing scourge . heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers in and about london, formerly called presbyterian and congregational approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers in and about london, formerly called presbyterian and congregational howe, john, - . [ ], p. printed by r.r. for tho. cockerill ... and john dunton ..., london : . largely the work of john howe. cf. dnb. 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng presbyterian church -- relations -- congregational churches. christian union -- england -- london. congregational churches -- relations -- presbyterian church. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers in and about london : formerly called presbyterian and congregational . licensed and entred according to order . london : printed by r. r. for tho. cockerill , at the three legs , and iohn dunton at the raven , in the poultrey . mdcxci . the preface to the reader . endeavours for an agreement among christians , will be grievous to none who desire the flourishing state of christianity it self . the success of these attempts among us , must be ascribed to a presence of god so signal , as not to be concealed ; and seems a hopeful pledg of further blessings . the favour of our rulers in the present established liberty , we most thankfully acknowledg ; and to them we are studious to approve our selves in the whole of this affair . therefore we declare against intermedling with the national church-form : imposing these terms of agreement on others , is disclaimed : all pretence to coercive power , is as unsuitable to our principles , as to our circumstances : excommunication it self , in our respective churches , being no other than a declaring such scandalous members as are irreclaimable , to be incapable of communion with us in things peculiar to visible believers : and in all , we expresly determine our purpose , to the maintaining of harmony and love among our selves , and preventing the inconveniences which humane weakness may expose to in our use of this liberty . the general concurrence of ministers and people in this city , and the great disposition thereto in other places , persuade us , this happy work is undertaken in a season designed for such divine influence , as will overcome all impediments to peace , and convince of that agreement which has been always among us in a good degree , tho neither to our selves nor others so evident , as hereby it is now acknowledged . need there any arguments to recommend this vnion ? is not this what we all have prayed for , and providence by the directest indications hath been long calling and disposing us to ? can either zeal for god , or prudent regards to our selves remissly suggest it , seeing the blessings thereof are so important , and when it 's become in so many respects even absolutely necessary ; especially as it may conduce to the preservation of the protestant religion , and the kingdoms weal ; a subserviency whereto , shall always govern our vnited abilities , with the same disposition to a concurence with all others who are duly concerned for those national blessings . as these considerations render this agreement desirable , so they equally urge a watchful care against all attemps of satan to dissolve it , or frustrate the good effects thereof so manifestly destructive to his kingdom . therefore it's incumbent on us , to forbear condemning and disputing those different sentiments and practices we have expresly allowed for : to reduce all distinguishing names , to that of united brethren : to admit no uncharitable jealousies , or censorious speeches ; much less any debates whether party seems most favoured by this agreement . such carnal regards are of small moment with us , who herein have used words less acurate , that neither side might in their various conceptions about lesser matters be contradicted , when in all substantials we are fully of one mind ; and from this time hope more perfectly to rejoice in the honour , gifts , and success of each other , as our common good . that we as united , may contribute our utmost to the great concernments of our redeemer , it 's mutually resolved , we will assist each other with our labours , and meet and consult , without the least shadow of separate or distinct parties : whence we joyfully expect great improvements in light and love , through the more abundant supplies of the spirit ; being well assured we herein serve that prince of peace , of the increase of whose government and peace , there shall be no end . this agreement is already assented to by above fourscore ministers , and the preface approved of . heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers , &c. the following heads of agreement have been resolved upon , by the united ministers in and about london , formerly called presbyterian and congregational ; not as a measure for any national constitution , but for the preservation of order in our congregations , that cannot come up to the common rule by law established . i. of churches and church-members . . we acknowledge our lord jesus christ to have one catholick church , or kingdom , comprehending all that are united to him , whether in heaven or earth . and do conceive the whole multitude of visible believers , and their infant-seed ( commonly called the catholick visible church ) to belong to christ's spiritual kingdom in this world : but for the notion of a catholick visible church here , as it signifies its having been collected into any formed society , under a visible human head on earth , whether one person singly , or many collectively , we , with the rest of protestants , unanimously disclaim it . . we agree , that particular societies of visible saints , who under christ their head , are statedly joined together for ordinary communion with one another , in all the ordinances of christ , are particular churches , and are to be owned by each other , as instituted churches of christ , tho differing in apprehensions and practice in some lesser things . . that none shall be admitted as members , in order to communion in all the special ordinances of the gospel , but such persons as are knowing and sound in the fundamental doctrines of the christian religion , without scandal in their lives ; and to a judgment regulated by the word of god , are persons of visible godliness and honesty ; credibly professing cordial subjection to jesus christ. . a competent number of such visible saints ( as before described ) do become the capable subjects of stated communion in all the special ordinances of christ , upon their mutual declared consent and agreement to walk together therein according to gospel rule . in which declaration , different degrees of expliciteness , shall no way hinder such churches from owning each other , as instituted churches . . tho parochial bounds be not of divine right , yet for common edification , the members of a particular church ought ( as much as conveniently may be ) to live near one another . . that each particular church hath right to chuse their own officers ; and being furnished with such as are duly qualified and ordained according to the gospel rule , hath authority from christ for exercising government , and of enjoying all the ordinances of worship within it self . . in the administration of church power , it belongs to the pastors and other elders of every particular church ( if such there be ) to rule and govern : and to the brotherhood to consent , according to the rule of the gospel . . that all professors as before described , are bound in duty , as they have opportunity , to join themselves as fixed members of some particular church ; their thus joining , being part of their professed subjection to the gospel of christ , and an instituted means of their establishment and edification ; whereby they are under the pastoral care , and in case of scandalous or offensive walking , may be authoritatively admonished or censured for their recovery , and for vindication of the truth , and the church professing it . . that a visible professor thus joined to a particular church , ought to continue stedfastly with the said church ; and not forsake the ministry and ordinances there dispensed , without an orderly seeking a recommendation unto another church . which ought to be given , when the case of the person apparently requires it . ii. of the ministry . . we agree , that the ministerial office is instituted by jesus christ , for the gathering , guiding , edifying , and governing of his church ; and to continue to the end of the world . . they who are called to this office , ought to be endued with competent learning , and ministerial gifts , as also with the grace of god , found in judgment , not novices in the faith and knowledg of the gospel ; without scandal , of holy conversation , and such as devote themselves to the work and service thereof . . that ordinarily none shall be ordained to the work of this ministry , but such as are called and chosen thereunto by a particular church . . that in so great and weighty a matter , as the calling and chusing a pastor , we judg it ordinarily requisite , that every such church consult and advise with the pastors of neighbouring congregations . : that after such advice , the person consulted about , being chosen by the brotherhood of that particular church over which he is to be set , and he accepting , be duly ordained , and set apart to his office over them ; wherein t is ordinarily requisite , that the pastors of neighbouring congregations concur with the preaching-elder , or elders , if such there be . . that whereas such ordination is only intended for such as never before had been ordained to the ministerial office ; if any judge , that in the case also of the removal of one formerly ordained , to a new station or pastoral charge , there ought to be a like solemn recommending him and his labours to the grace and blessing of god ; no different sentiments or practice herein , shall be any occasion of contention or breach of communion among us . . it is expedient , that they who enter on the work of preaching the gospel , be not only qualified for communion of saints ; but also that , except in cases extraordinary , they give proof of their gifts and fitness for the said work , unto the pastors of churches of known abilites to discern and judge of their qualifications ; that they may be sent forth with solemn approbation and prayer ; which we judge needful , that no doubt may remain concerning their being called to the work ; and for preventing ( as much as in us lieth ) ignorant and rash intruders . iii. of censures . . as it cannot be avoided , but that in the purest churches on earth , there will sometimes offences and scandals arise by reason of hypocrisie and prevailing corruption ; so christ hath made it the duty of every church , to reform it self by spiritual remedies , appointed by him to be applied in all such cases ; viz. admonition , and excommunication . . admonition , being the rebuking of an offending member in order to conviction , is in case of private offences to be performed according to the rule in mat. . v. , , . and in case of publick offences , openly before the church , as the honour of the gospel , and nature of the scandal shall require : and if either of the admonitions take place for the recovery of the fallen person , all further proceedings in a way of censure , are thereon to cease , and satisfaction to be declared accordingly . . when all due means are used , according to the order of the gospel , for the restoring an offending and scandalous brother ; and he notwithstanding remains impenitent , the censure of excommunication is to be proceeded unto ; wherein the pastor and other elders ( if there be such ) are to lead , and go before the church ; and the brotherhood to give their consent , in a way of obedience unto christ , and unto the elders , as over them in the lord. . it may sometimes come to pass , that a church-member , not otherwise scandalous , may sinfully withdraw , and divide himself from the communion of the church to which he belongeth : in which case , when all due means for the reducing him , prove ineffectual , he having hereby cut himself off from that churches communion ; the church may justly esteem and declare it self discharged of any further inspection over him . iv. of communion of churches . . we agree , that particular churches ought not to walk so distinct and separate from each other , as not to have care and tenderness towards one another . but their pastors ought to have frequent meetings together , that by mutual advice , support , encouragement , and brotherly intercourse , they may strengthen the hearts and hands of each other in the ways of the lord. . that none of our particular churches shall be subordinate to one another ; each being endued with equality of power from jesus christ. and that none of the said particular churches , their officer , or officers , shall exercise any power , or have any superiority over any other church , or their officers . . that known members of particular churches , constituted as aforesaid , may have occasional communion with one another in the ordinances of the gospel , viz. the word , prayer , sacraments , singing psalms , dispensed according to the mind of christ : unless that church with which they desire communion , hath any just exception against them . . that we ought not to admit any one to be a member of our respective congregations , that hath joined himself to another , without endeavours of mutual satisfaction of the congregations concerned . . that one church ought not to blame the proceedings of another , until it hath heard what that church charged , its elders , or messengers , can say in vindication of themselves from any charge of irregular or injurious proceedings . . that we are most willing and ready to give an account of our church proceedings to each other , when desired ; for preventing or removing any offences that may arise among us . likewise we shall be ready to give the right hand of fellowship , and walk together according to the gospel rules of communion of churches . v. of deacons and ruling elders . we agree , the office of a deacon is of divine appointment , and that it belongs to their office to receive , lay out , and distribute the churches stock to its proper uses , by the direction of the pastor , and the brethren if need be . and whereas divers are of opinion , that there is also the office of ruling elders , who labour not in word and doctrine ; and others think otherwise ; we agree , that this difference make no breach among us . vi. of occasional meetings of ministers , &c. . we agree , that in order to concord , and in any other weighty and difficult cases , it is needful , and according to the mind of christ , that the ministers of several churches be consulted and advised with about such matters . . that such meetings may consist of smaller or greater numbers , as the matter shall require . . that particular churches , their respective elders , and members , ought to have a reverential regard to their judgment so given , and not dissent therefrom , without apparent grounds from the word of god. vii . of our demeanour towards the civil magistrate . . we do reckon our selves obliged continually to pray for god's protection , guidance , and blessing upon the rulers set over us . . that we ought to yield unto them not only subjection in the lord , but support , according to our station and abilities . . that if at any time it shall be their pleasure to call together any number of us , or require any account of our affairs , and the state of our congregations , we shall most readily express all dutiful regard to them herein . viii . of a confession of faith . as to what appertains to soundness of judgment in matters of faith , we esteem it sufficient , that a church acknowledge the scriptures to be the word of god , the perfect and only rule of faith and practice ; and own either the doctrinal part of those commonly called the articles of the church of england , or the confession , or catechisms , shorter or larger , compiled by the assembly at westminster , or the confession agreed on at the savoy , to be agreeable to the said rule . ix . of our duty and deportment towards them that are not in communion with us . . we judge it our duty to bear a christian respect to all christians , according to their several ranks and stations , that are not of our persuasion or communion . . as for such as may be ignorant of the principles of the christian religion , or of vicious conversation , we shall in our respective places , as they give us opportunity , endeavour to explain to them the doctrine of life and salvation , and to our uttermost persuade them to be reconciled to god. . that such who appear to have the essential requisites to church-communion , we shall willingly receive them in the lord , not troubling them with disputes about lesser matters . as we assent to the forementioned heads of agreement so we unanimously resolve , as the lord shall enable us , to practice according to them . ; finis . advertisement . the reasonableness of reformation , and the necessity of conversion ; the true methods of making all men happy in this world , and in the world to come ; seasonably discoursed , and earnestly pressed upon this licentious age. by j. f. a sincere lover of his native countrey , and the souls of men. printed for tho. cockerill , at the three legs in the poultrey . in twelves , price bound , one shilling . an apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant, or, a discourse touching the covenant between god and men, and especially concerning church-covenant ... sent over in answer to master bernard, in the yeare ... mather, richard, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing m ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing m estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : or :e , no ) an apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant, or, a discourse touching the covenant between god and men, and especially concerning church-covenant ... sent over in answer to master bernard, in the yeare ... mather, richard, - . peters, hugh, - . davenport, john, - . [ ], p. printed by t.p. and m.s. for benjamin allen, london : . written by richard mather and edited by hugh peters. cf. nuc pre- . the apologie and the answer were both published in mather's church-government and church-covenant discussed. . film lacks: an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england unto nine positions, sent over to them (by divers reverend and godly ministers in england) to declare their judgements therein, written in the yeer , and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points / by john davenport. london : printed by t.p. and m.s. for b. allen, (p. - ). this item is located at reel : and also at reel :e. , no. where it is filmed after mather's church-government and church-covenant discussed. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng congregational churches -- new england. covenant theology. a r (wing m ). civilwar no an apologie of the chvrches in new-england for chvrch-covenant. or, a discourse touching the covenant betvveen god and men, and especially c mather, richard d the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the d category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an apologie of the chvrches in new-england for chvrch-covenant . or , a discourse touching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company doe enter into when they become a church ; and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . sent over in answer to master bernard , in the yeare . and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in this point . london , printed by t. p. and m. s. for benjamin allen . . a discovrse tovching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company do enter into when they become a church , and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . . jer. . . come let us joyne our selves to the lord , in a perpetuall covenant that shall not be forgotten . although that which is foretold in these two chapters , and namely in the fourth and fifth verses of this chapter , was in part fulfilled when the people of god returned from captivitie in babylon at the end of seventie yeares : yet we must not limit the place to that time onely , but may extend it further to the dayes of the gospel , and the spirituall return , not of the jews onely , but of the gentiles also , when men shall be converted from pagan , antichristian , babylonish , or jewish bondage and captivitie , or from slavery to sinne , and self-righteousnesse , and shall be joyned to god in the fellowship of his church , in the dayes of the new testament . for as some passages in this scripture were never fully accomplished at the returne from the captivitie of the seventie yeares , and namely this , that the children of israel and iudah should returne both together : ( for the ten tribes returned not at all : ) so many things that literally concerned the jewes were types and figures , signifying the like things concerning the people of god in these latter dayes : in which respect sincere converts are called jewes , rom. . . and israelites , gal. . . ioh. . . and our sacraments are made 〈◊〉 of theirs , a con . , , . and rome is called babylon , rev. . , and papists are called gentiles ▪ rev. . . and therefore the captivitie of babylon might well be a type of the spirituall captivitie of gods people to antichristian bondage , and t●eir returne from babylon to sion , a type of the returne of christians from romish slavery to the true sion , the christian church . and this may be added further , that this place seemes not onely to be meant of the private or personall conversion of this or that particular christian , but also further , of the open and joynt calling of a company , because it is said , they shall come , the children of israel and the children of iudah together , and that their saying shall not be , let me joyne , &c. but in the plurall number , 〈◊〉 us joyne our selves unto the lord , so noting the joyning of a company togeth●r in holy covenant with god . concerning which covenant with god , it will not be amisse for the better understanding of that which followes ; first , briefly to shew how diversly covenant is taken in the scripture , which sometimes i●ports generally any firme appointment or promise of god , when man doth not promise unto god any thing backe againe : thus the preserving of noah in the arke , and of the wo●ld from being drowned any more by a floud ; the interchangeable succession of day and night ; the giving of the priesthood unto phin●as ; the setting forth of the shew-bread every sabbath before the lord , and the giving of the heave-offering unto the priests , are said to be done by a covenant , or an everlasting covenant of god , gen. . . & . . . . ier. . . num. . , 〈◊〉 . . . num. . . but sometimes covenant is taken more strictly and properly , for an agreement which god doth make with men , when he promiseth some blessing unto men , and bin●es them to performe some dutie backe againe to him . taken thus it hath two parts : first , a promise or stipulation of some blessing on gods part : secondly , restipulation or promise , or bind●●g o● man unto dutie back againe on his part : both these are in those words of the covenant , i will be to thee a god , thou shalt be to me a people : and so gen. . . & v. , ▪ , . the covenant taken thus is either the covenant of workes , or the covenant of grace : and againe the covenant may be considered , first as it is personall , private and particular , between god and one particular soule , making covenant with god , and god with him , either at his first conversion , or at other times ; of which we reade sam. . . & psal. . . & . , . & . . & psal. . , secondly , it is generall and publick of a company joyntly together , of which this text ier. . . seemes most properly to speake : as also that deut. . , , &c. and that exod. . , , and many others : a covenant taken thus generally when it respects spirituall blessings , and spirituall duties , in the communion of saints , is that which is called church-covenant , which church-covenant differs not in substance of the things promised from that which is between the lord and every particular soule , but onely in some other respects ; as first , the one is of one christian in particular , the other of a company joyntly together . secondly , if right order be observed , a man ought not to enter into church-covenant , till he be in covenant with god before , in respect of his personall estate . thirdly , the one is usually done in private , as in a mans closet between the lord and his soule , and the other in some publick assembly . fourthly , the one in these dayes is of such duties as the gospel requires of every christian as a christian , the other of such duties as the gospel requires of every church and the members thereof . now concerning church-covenant , two things are to be noted for the better understanding thereof : first , the description of it : secondly , the use of it , and the benefit and fruit thereof . for the former it may be thus described , viz. a solemne and publick promise before the lord , whereby a company of christians , called by the power and mercy of god to fellowship with christ , and by his providence to live together , and by his grace to cleave together in the unitie of faith , and brotherly love , and defirous to partake together in all the holy ordinances of god , doe in confidence of his gracious acceptance in christ , binde themselves to the lord , and one to another , to walke together by the assistance of his spirit , in all such wayes of holy worship in him and of edification one towards another , as the gospel of christ requireth of every christian church , and the members thereof . in this description , there are compr●●ed six things : first the generall name of the thing : [ a solemne and publick promise ] a promise it is , and therefore it is called , a joyning in covenant here : an entring into covenant , deut. . . solemne and publick , and therefore it is by the children of israel and the children of iudah together : and they say , let us joyne . secondly , the object [ the lord , and one another ] joyne our selves to the lord . it is not a promise onely to man , but to the lord himselfe , and likewise to one another ; for , come let us joyne , implyes mutuall consent together . thirdly , the agents or the qualification of the persons : [ christians ] not turkes , indians , &c. saints , psal. . . , . [ called to fellowship with christ ] so cor. . . else if they be not united to christ by faith , they are not fit materialls for such a building as a church of god , which is the house of the living god , ephes. . . cor. . . phil. . . rev. . . [ by his providence to live together ] else they cannot partake in the lords ordinances together as churches ought to doe , cor. . . act. . . the whole church comes together in one place [ cleaving together in faith and love ] so act. . . if they differ , namely , in opinion , or in their affection , and should joyne in this covenant , breaches , factions , rents , and schismes , would be like to be the issue of such joyning : things so unlike would not close nor long hold together , dan. . [ desirous to partake in all ordinances ] this should be the ground of their joyning in covenant together , psal. . . willing : and not pride , nor gaine , nor the like : fourthly , the act [ binde themselves ] that now they are bound by their owne word and promise , that they may say now , as psal. . . thy vowes are upon me , or as num. . . if he binde his soule with a vow . fiftly , the matter promised ; [ to walke together in all such wayes of worship and mutuall edification , as the gospel requireth of churches and church-members ] they binde not themselves to observe any devises of their owne , nor inventions of men , but such things as the word of god requireth ; neither is it perfect obedience to the law , for that were impossible to performe , and presumption to promise ; nor is it onely in generall the duties of the gospel , but specially such duties of worship to god , & edification of one another as concerne church-state , which now they enter into . sixtly , the manner of performing [ confidence of gods gracious acceptance and assistance through christ ] for in all our wayes god must be acknowledged , pro. . . and much more in such speciall matters of weight : if men in entring into this covenant looke for acceptance , through any worth of their owne , or promise dutie in their own strength , they shew themselves like to the pharisees , luk. . , . and turne the church-covenant into a covenant of workes : and as many as are of the workes of the law , are under the curse , gal. . . the use and benefit of this church-covenant , and the fruit thereof , may be seene in two particulars ; first , that this is that whereby a company of christians doe become a church : it is the constituting forme of a church . secondly , this is that by taking hold whereof a particular person becomes a member of a church , which was constituted afore . for the former of these ; every christian church must have in it both matter and forme , and as the matter by gods appointment are visible saints , or visible beleevers , ephes. . . cor. . . and in the new testament , onely so many as may meete together in one congregation : so the forme is a uniting , or combining , or knitting of those saints together into one visible body , by the band of this holy covenant . some union or band there must be amongst them , whereby they come to stand in a new relation to god , and one towards another , other then they were in before : or els they are not yet a church , though they be fit materialls for a church ; even as soule and body are not a man , unlesse they be united ; nor stones and timber an house , till they be compacted and conjoyned . now that a company becomes a church , by joyning in covenant , may be made good sundry wayes ; first , by plaine texts of scripture ; as from deut. . , , , , . yee stand this day all you before the lord your god , your captaines of your tribes , your elders , your officers , with all the men of israel ▪ ver. . that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god , ver. . and he may establish thee for a people unto himselfe , ver. . so that here is plain●y shewed , that here was a company , ver. . and this company were to be established to be a people unto the lord , that is to say , a church , ver. . and this is done by the peoples entring into solemne covenant with god , ver. . and therefore a company of people doe become a church by entring into covenant with god . this covenant was not like our church-covenants , for it was of all the nation together ; whereas the church-covenant with us , is of some select persons , leaving out others . . this objection concerns the matter of a church , but the covenant is not the materiall cause of a church , but the formall cause thereof : and for this the text is plaine and expresse , that by entring into covenant with god , a people come to be the lords people , that is to say , his church . . if it was of all the people together , the reason was because that church was a nationall church : now if a nationall church becomes a church by entring into solemne covenant with god , then a congregationall church becomes a church by the same means ; for there is no difference between them in this point . . though it was of all the people , we may not say it proves that when we looke at the materiall cause of a church , there may be a promiscuous taking in of all commers without distinction or separation of the precious from the vile ; for , first , when god took in this nation to be his people , he separated them from all the nations of the earth besides : so that there was a distinction and separation of some from others . secondly , this generation was generally a generation of beleevers ; for it was they that were to enter into the land within a while after ; for they were fortie yeares in the wildernesse , & this covenant , was made in the last moneth save one of the last of those fortie yeares , deut. . . and their carkasses fell not in the wildernesse through unbeliefe , as their fathers did , num. . heb. . but entred by faith , and when they were entred , subdued kingdomes by their faith , heb. . . and served the lord all the dayes of ioshua , and of the elders that outlived ioshua , josh. . . as for that which is said of them , ver. , . of this chap. that the lord had not given them eyes to see , &c. that proves not that they were wholly hardned in a carnall estate , but onely that they were dull and slow of heart to consider of sundry dispensations of god towards them ; for as much is said of the disciples of christ , mar. . , . when doubtlesse they were not meere carnall or naturall persons . this people deut. . could not become the lords people by entring into sol●mne covenant with god , for they were the lords church and people already before this . . if they were , yet that was by entring into solemne covenant with god on mount sinai , when the lord had brought them up out of the land of aegypt ; for then they entred into solemne covenant with god , and god with them , and so they became the lords peculiar people , exod. , , , . &c. if they were his people before that , yet that also was by covenant made with them in the loynes of abraham , when god tooke him and his seede to be his church and people , yet separating ishmael from isaac and esau from iacob , that the inheritance of the covenant of god , and of being the church of god , might rest in the house of iacob . . yet it was not without great reason that the lord should now establish them by solemne covenant to be a people to himselfe , because the nation had been much degenerated from the spirit and wayes of abraham in aegypt , and had broken that covenant by their idolatries there , ez●k. . , . and the covenant made in sinai or horeb when they were come out of aegypt , they had also broken by their idolatries in the wildernesse , ez●k . , . for which causes , and the like , the lord consumed that generation , that they never entred into the land , iosh. . , . and therefore now when their posteritie and children were ready to enter in , the lord entred into covenant with them , and thereby established them to be his people , their fathers being cut off for breaking the covenant . but still it was by covenant that both fathers first , and children afterward became a church and people unto god ; and when this generation were entred into the land , their covenant made before between god and them , was confirmed by circumcision , iosh. . . they being not circumcised before . but this covenant was of the whole church with god , and therefore not like our chu●ch-covenants , whi●h are between the church and the members concerning watchfulnesse over one another , and the like . our church covenants are with the lord himselfe , as was shewed before in the description thereof . for watchfu●nesse and duties of edification one towards another , are but branches of the lords covenant , being duties commanded by the law : and so it was with that people of israel , who when they promised and covenanted to walke in all the wayes of god ; in all his statutes and commandements and judgements , they promised these du●ies of love and watch●ulnesse and e●ification one towards another , because these were duties commanded and required o● god , lev. . deut. ● the neglect whereof in the matter of achan was the sinne of al● the co●gregation , and brought judgement upon them all , iosh . , . yea by this covenant they were bound to duties towards them that were not then present , but children afterward to beborne , and prosely●es , that afterward should be added to them , ver. , . like as our church-covenants are with them that now are , and that hereafter shall become members of the same church . when iehojada made a covenant between the king and the people , king. . . that covenant was but a branch of the lords covenant with them all , both king and people : for the king promised but to rule the people righteously , according to the will of god : and the people to be subject to the king so ruling . now these duties of the king to them , and of them to the king , were such as god required in his covenant , both of him and them : and so it is in church-covenant , the duties of the church to the members , and the members to the church , and one another , are no other but such as the gospel and the covenant of grace requireth both of the church and the members of it in their severall places . but this place of deut. . is not sufficient to prove a church-covenant in these dayes : because it is in the scriptures of the old testament , for whatsoever must be used in the dayes of the new t●stament , must be proved from the scriptures of the new testament , or else it is to be layd aside . . the church-covenant may be proved from the new testament also , as will afterwards appeare . . but suppose there were not pregnant places for it in the new testament , yet it is not enough to prove the same unlawfull : for whatsoever ordinance of the old testament is not repealed in the new testament , as peculiar to the jewish paedagogie , but was of morall and perpetuall equitie , the same bindes us in these dayes , and is to be accounted the revealed will of god in all ages , though it be not particularly and expressely mentioned in the writings of the new testament , else how shall we prove it unlawfull for a man to marry his sister , or his aunt ? how shall we prove it warrantable and necessary for magistrates to punish sabbath-breaking , blasphemy , and idolatry ? how shall we prove it lawfull to apply the seale of gods covenant unto infants ? or to admit women to eate of the holy things ; for the scriptures of the new testament doe speake little in these cases ; onely the scriptures of the old testament doe give direction , and light about them , lev. . & . neh. . . &c. chron. . . & king. . gen. . . & exod. . . . and the new testament hath nothing to the contrary , and they are all according to morall equitie and reason , and therefore they are to be observed from the scriptures of the old testament , as the revealed will of god , though there were nothing expressely for them in the new . and the same we say of the particular in hand . for , that a company should be combined together into one body , in way of government and subjection , by way of mutuall free covenant ; as men doe when they enter into church estate , nothing is more naturall or agr●eable to morall equitie ; nay , it implyeth a contradiction in the very name of libertie or freedome , that free-men should take upon them authoritie or power over free men without their free consent , and voluntary and mutuall covenant or engagement . and therefore seeing this covenant is not repealed in the scriptures of the new testament , the scriptures of the old are sufficient warrant for it . another scripture to prove the same , is deut. . , , . with deut. . . this day the lord hath commanded thee to doe these statutes and iudgements , thou shalt therefore keepe and doe them , &c. thou hast avouched the lord this day to be thy god , and to walke in his wayes , and to keepe his statutes , &c. and the lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people ; take heed and hearken , o israel , this day thou art become the p●ople of the lord thy god . this scripture plainly shewes these things : . that here was the making of a covenant between god and man ; for that avouching of god to them , and them to god , was the making of covenant , ver. . . . this was not of one person , but of a company together , the whole people of israel , . . & . . here is the effect of this covenant , that thereby they become the lords people , ver. . so that when a company doe enter into holy covenant with god , they become thereby the lords people , that is to say , his church . so ezech. . . proves the same likewise : i ent●ed into covenant with thee , saith the lord , and thou becam●st mine . here also is the making of covenant between the lord and men ; and this covenant was not personall , but of a company ; for it was with hierusalem , ver. . which was a whole citie ; it was with them that were multiplied as the bud of the seild , ver. . and it was with them that did prosper into a kingdome , ver. . and therefore not meant onely of any one particular person : and by this covenant they became the lords ; that is , the lords church and people ; for it is expresly said , i entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine . so that when a company enter into covenant with god , and god with them , they become thereby the lords church and people . likewise ezek. . . i will cause you to passe under the rod ; and i will bring you into the bond of the covenant . in which place , there is first mention of an holy covenant . secondly , this was not of one person , but of a company , the whole house of israel , ver. . . thirdly , and this covenant is called a bond , because it is by covenant that a people are bound , and tyed , and knit together , as one chu●ch , all of them unto the lord , and one unto another ; so that the covenant is the bond of union , by which a company are so combined and united , as that they become a church . it is also obs●rvable , how the lord before he would bring them into this bond of the covenant , he would cause them to passe under the rod ; by which phrase , as iunius upon the place well observes , is meant tryall and probation ; drawne from the manner of shepheards or owners of cattell , who went among their sheepe , or other cattell with a rod , and therewith pointed out such as were for the lords holy use , as lev. . . and so hereby is noted that god would not ●n the dayes of the gospel have men to be brought into his church hand over head , but he would first cause them to passe under the rod of due tryall and probation ; and then such as upon tryall were found to be holy for god , or meete matter for his church , should solemnly enter into covenant with god , and that covenant should be the bond that should combine them , and knit them together into one , that so they that were many particular persons , should all become one body , that is to say , a church . and so much of the first argument drawne from plaine texts of scripture . a second argument may be taken from the titles that are given to the church ; as first , that the church is said to be married or espoused unto christ , ier. . . & . . cor. . . from whence the argument may be formed thus : if every church becomes a church by being married or espoused unto christ , then a company becomes a church by way of covenant : but the former is true , therefore the latter 〈◊〉 true also . the assumption , that a church becomes a church by being married unto christ , is plai●e from the former scriptures , where the ●hurc● of israel , and the church of corinth , in regard of their e●tring into church estate , are said to be espoused and married unto christ , as a loving and chast virgine to one husband . which spirituall marriage between christ and his church , is also taught in the type of the marriage between king salomon and pharoahs daughter , psal. . the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason ; for there is no marriage but by way of covenant ; no woman becomes a mans wife , but by way of bestowing her selfe in covenant upon such a man : neither doth a man become an husband , but by the same means ; and therefore the scripture speaking of the violation of marriage , calls it a violation of covenant , prov. . . christ hath but one wife or spouse , cant. . the catholique church indeed is but one ; viz ▪ the whole company of gods elect in heaven , in earth , dead , now living , and not yet borne : but as there is the church-catholique , which is but one ; so there are particular and visible churches , which are in number many ; and therefore the scripture speakes of churches , cor. . . . gal. . . of the churches of the gentiles , rom. . . of seven churches , rev. . . of all churches , cor. . & . . rev. . . but if every particular church be the wife of christ , how many hundred wives should he have ? . if the church of israel , ier. . . the church of corinth , cor. . . the jewish church , rev. . . be the spouse and wife of christ , there is no reason but others should be the same also , especially seeing there is no particular church , but in respect of their church estate , they may decline and goe a whoring from christ , and that shews that they were first espoused to him ; for no woman can be said to got a whoring from a man , if shee were never married , nor espoused to him at all . . this that seemes an absurditie , and were a sinfull practise among men , in respect of christ , is a certaine truth , and no dishonour unto him at all , to have more spouses then one upon earth , many spirituall spouses . men cannot give themselves wholly and intirely to many as christ can . every faithfull soule is espoused and married unto christ ; and in that respect he hath not onely many hundred but many thousand , yea many millions of spirituall spouses . but this spirituall marriage is between christ and the church , but the church covenant is between the church and the members , and therefore this marriage doth not prove the church-covenant . . in some sort there may be said to be a marriage between the church and the members , viz. in respect of that deare love and affection , that ought to be between them ; and therefore it is said , as a young man marrieth a virgine , so shall the children of the church be married to the church , isa. . . . but properly the marriage is between christ & the church , and so is the covenant also , so farre as therein they give up themselv●s to christ as unto an head and lord ; as a woman in the covenant of m●rriage doth give up her selfe unto her husband ; and the performance of such duties as the church and the member owe one unto another , is a branch of that marriage-covenant , wherein they are tyed to christ ; for christ himselfe in his covenant requires , not onely that they should give up themselves to him , but also that they should performe these duties one unto another . and accordingly it is said of the churches in mac●donia , that they gave up themselves first to the lord , and then to us by the will of god , cor. . . true it is , they doe also binde th●mselves by covenant one unto another , but in that respect the covenant is p●operly a brotherly covenant ; like that sam. . . am●s . . . because there the engagement is to one another as brethren , fellow - members , and fellow-helpers , and not as to one head or lord , as it is in respect of christ , and therefore in that respect it is not so properly a marriage-covenant as it is in respect of christ : though duties to one another are promised in their covenant with one another , and also in their covenant with christ . in briefe thus : they promise unto christ duties to him , and duties to one another according to him : and so their covenant is a marriage-covenant with christ : they promise also to one another , duties to one another , and so it is a brotherly covenant . another title given to the church ( which also proves that a church is made by covenant ) is the title of a citie , or citie of god , psal. . & . . & . . ephes . . the argument lyeth thus . if a true church be a citie of god , then a church becomes a church by covenant : but every true church is a citie of god . ergo . the assumption is proved by the scriptures forealledged . the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason , for every citie is un●ted by some covenant among themselves , the citizens are received unto 〈◊〉 civitatis , or right of citie priviledges , by some covenant or oath ; and therefore it is so likewise in this citie of god the church ; and men become citizens of the church by solemne covenant . the third argument may be drawne from the meanes of reforming and restoring a church when it is corrupted , which is by entring into covenant a new with god , chron. . . & . . & neh. . . & . , ier. . , . the reason may be taken thus : if a church decayed is to be restored and refo●med by renuing covenant with god , then it was instituted and erected at the first by way of covenant : the reason of which consequence is , because abuses and corruptions are to be reformed by bringing things back to the first institution : thus christ re●ormes the abuses of marriage , by bringing them to the first institution of that ordinance ; from the beginning it was not so , mat. . . and thus paul reformeth the abuses of the lords supper , by telling them what was the first institution thereof , cor. . &c. and thus the lord jesus calling on the declining church of ephesus for reformation , bids her remember from whence shee is fallen , and repent and doe her first workes . rev. . . now the assumption is plaine from the texts above alledged , that at the reforming of a church , there is to be a renuing of covenant ; and thence it follows , that at the first erecting of a church , there was the making of a covenant with god , for els this renuing of covenant would not have been the way to reforme it . the fourth argument is taken from that which doth dissolve a church , which is the dissolving or breaking of the covenant , zach. . , . if dissolving the covenant be that which doth dissolve the church , then the making of covenant is that which constitutes a church . the reason of the consequence is plaine , because otherwise the covenant might be dissolved & the church stand still , if it were not the making of the covenant that did constitute the church : but if dissipating stones in a building doe dissolve the house , then the compacting and conjoyning of them is that which makes the house ; if separation of soule and body be that which destroyes the man , that then we say he is not : it must needs be the uniting of them , that did constitute & make the man : and so it is 〈…〉 case . and that dissolving the covenant is that which dis●ol●ves a church , is plaine from the text alledged , zach. . where the breaking of the two staves , of beautie and bands , that is , the unchurching of the jewes , is interpreted to be the breaking of the covenant that god had made with that people , and the brotherhood that was between iudah and israel . the fifth argument is taken from the distinction which god hath appointed amongst churches , and the confounding of all churches into one , if there be not this covenant to distinguish them . if churches be distinct societies , and may not be confounded , then churches are compacted and combined by covenant : but the former is true . ergo . that churches are distinct societies , is plaine in the scripture , where we have mention of many churches in one countrey or province , gal. . . thes. . . of seven churches in asia , rev. . . and of all the churches , cor. . . rev. . . ephesus is not smyrna , nor smyrna is not thyatira , nor either of them pergamus , but each one distinct of themselves , having officers of their owne , which did not belong to others : vertues of their owne for which others are not praised , corruptions of their owne , for which others are not blamed ; if it were not thus , then when laodi●ea is condemned for lukewarmenesse , or ephesus for declining , all the rest should be reproved also : and when philadelfia is praised , all the rest should be praised also , which we see is otherwise . now from hence the consequence is certaine , that therefore they are combined by some covenant each one amongst themselves ; for there is nothing els without this that wil sufficiently distinguish them . the spirit of god and faith in their hearts , is common to all christians under heaven , and in heaven also , and therefore this is not the thing that makes distinction . nor is it habitation in the same towne together , for that may be common to such christians as are not of this church , and usually is to many that are no christians . as it is with companies in london ; as the company of goldsmiths , &c. that many others dwell in the same towne with them , yea it may be in the same streete that are not of their company : and therefore it is not meerely habitation that doth distinguish them from others , but some combination and agreement amongst themselves ; so it is not habitation in the same towne that distinguisheth churches , and church-members from other men , but their mutuall agreement and combination and joyning themselves together in an holy covenant with god . if the spirit of god and faith in their hearts cannot distinguish one church from another , because these are common to them all , then how can covenant distinguish them , sith all churches are joyned by covenant one as well as another ? it is not a covenant simply or a covenant in generall that doth constitute a church , or distinguish one church from another , but a covenant with application and appropriation to these persons . even as it is in marriage , though all married couples be united by covenant , and a covenant , wherein one couple promiseth the same duties that another couple doth yet a covenant with application and appropriation of the duties covenanted to this man and this woman in particular , such a covenant is the very thing that make a couple , man and wife together , and gives them mutuall power over each other , as husband and wife , and puts a distinction between them and all other men and women in the world . and so it is in this case ; a covenant to performe church-duties with application and appropriation to such persons , is the very thing that constitutes a church , and distinguisheth one church from another . and thus much concerning the former of the two particulars , to shew the use of church-covenant , viz. that it is that whereby a company doe become a church . the second particular is this , taking hold of the covenant , or joyning in it , is that which makes a particular person a member of a church . and this followes upon the former , and that may be the first argument to prove it . if joyning in covenant be that which makes a company to become a church , then taking hold of that covenant is requisite to make a particular person become a member of the church : but the first is true , as hath been shewed before ; therefore the second is true also : if compacting and conjoyning of stones and pieces of timber , be that that makes an house , then a particular stone cannot become a part of that house , till it be compacted and conjoyned to the rest : but the former is true , even in the church of god , which is the spirituall spouse and citie of god , living stones , christians , beleevers must be compacted together , and builded up together , ephes. . . . psal. . . and therefore the latter is true also , that a particular christian becomes a member of the church , a part of that building by being combined with the rest . a second argument may be drawne from the scripture , isa. . , , . let not the sonne of the stranger , that hath joyned himselfe to the lord , speake , saying , the lord hath utterly separated me from his people , &c. the sonnes of the strangers that joyne themselves to the lord , to serve him , &c. and take hold of my covenant , even them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer , &c. concerning which scripture , note three things to the present purpose . first , that these strangers were members of christ , true beleevers , joyned to god by faith ; for it is said , they have joyned themselves to the lord , v. & v. . that they loved the name of the lord , served him , and kept his sabbaths , v. . and yet for all this they were not as yet joyned , as members of the visible church , for if they had been ioyned , there would have been no cause for such a complaint , the lord hath separated me from his people , v. . besides , bringing them into the church as members , and granting them the priviledge of members , is promised as a reward and blessing upon this their joyning to the lord by faith and obedience , v. . and therefore it is not the same , but a disti●ct thing from it ; the one being promised as a reward and blessing upon the other . secondly , the lord promiseth that he will make them members of his church : them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer . thirdly , that among other things requisite to make them members , this was one , viz. the taking hold of that covenant which was between the church of israel and god , v. . so that hence we may gather , that men may be members of christ , joyned to the lord by faith and love , and yet for the present not be members of the visible church : and that when god is so gracious to true beleevers , as to make them members of his visible church , it is requisite that they joyne in covenant before . but might not faith in christ , beleeving in heart on the god of israel , be all the taking hold of the covenant that is here meant . not so , but over and above that , here is also meant their open profession of their faith in the god of israel , and open binding of themselves by covenant to all such duties of faith and obedience , as god required of the church of israel , and the members thereof . now distinctly take the answer to this objection in three or foure particular propositions . first , there was a covenant between the church of israel and god , exod. . , , , . ezek . . deut. . . &c. secondly , this covenant was mutuall ; not onely a promise on gods part to be their god , and to take them for his people , but also reciprocally on their part to give up themselves unto god to be his people , and to doe the dutie of people to their god ; the covenant is not meerely to receive from god , and promise nothing back againe to him ; nor doth god binde himselfe therein , and leave men at libertie , but it is mutuall on both parts , as these scriptures declare ; gen. . . exod. . . . deut. . . & . , . hos. . . & zach. . . thirdly , hereupon it followes , that if men had not promised , and also performed , in some measure of truth , the duties of faith and obedience unto god , they had not taken hold of the covenant , but had discovenanted themselves , notwithstanding all the promises of god unto their fathers or others . thus though god promised abraham to be a god to him , and to his seede in their generations , gen. . . yet the ishma●lites and edomites descending from abraham , were discovenanted by not promising nor performing those duties of faith and obedience , which god required on the peoples part : when a covenant containes promises on gods part , and duties also on mans , he doth not take hold of the covenant that takes one part , and leaves another . fourthly , to beleeve what god promised in the covenant for his part , and to promise in a private way the duties of obedience on mans part , was not sufficient to make these strangers members of the church , but they must doe it openly and in the view of the church , else the church could have had no warrant to have admitted such into their fellowship , if their faith and obedience had not been visibly professed , exod. . . chron. . . and in as much as the covenant was mutuall , when these strangers did manifest their taking hold of the covenant , they manifested and professed both faith and obedience , both that they beleeved what god promised , and that they would be obedient to what he required ; if any shou●d have claimed church-fellowship , saying , i beleeve the promises , but would not binde himselfe to any duties of evangelicall obedience , this had been a taking hold of the covenant by the halves , a taking of one part of it in seeming and pretence , and a leaving of another ; but it would not have been sufficient to have brought a man into the fellowship of the church : such of the congregation of israel as would not come to hierusalem to enter into covenant , were to be separated from the church in the dayes of ezrya , ezra . . and therefore such as being strangers should refuse to enter into it , could not be admitted into the church ; so that the taking hold of gods covenant , which is there required to make these strangers members of the church , is a beleeving in heart on the god of israel , and an open profession that they did beleeve , and likewise a promise of obedience or subjection unto the god of israel , and an open professing of such obedience and subjection ; and that is the joyning in covenant which we stand for , before a man can be a member of a church , even an open profession of faith and of obedience . a third argument is taken from those scriptures which shew that men become members by being added to the church , or being joyned to them , act. . . & . . & . . if men become members of the church by being added or joyned , then joying in covenant ( or professing of subjection to the gospel or covenant of god ) is that whereby a man becomes a member of a church : but the former is true , as appeares by the scriptures forementioned , and therefore the latter is true also . but all the doubt in this argument will be concerning the consequence of the major proposition ; but that may be made good by this reason , and the confirmation of it , viz. that a man cannot be added or joyned to the church by any other meanes without this joyning in covenant . the truth of which assertion will appeare by shewing the insufficiency of all other means , without this joyning in covenant , and that may be done in answer to the objections ensuing . when men were added to the church , it may be , no more is meant but tha● god did convert them and worke faith in their hearts , and that converting of them was the adding of them to the church . this cannot be all ; for , first , saul was converted and had faith wrought in his heart , and yet he was not at the first received for a member of the church at hierusalem ( though he assayed to be joyned unto them , ) till they were better satisfied in his spirituall estate by the testimony of barnabas , act. . , , . and those strangers , isa. . ( as was said before ) were joyned to the lord by being converted , and having faith wrought in their hearts , and yet they doe lament it with griefe , that they were not joyned as members to the visible church : the lord hath separated me from his people , say they , ver. . the old saying is true concerning the visible church , there are many wolves within , and many sheepe without . secondly , those that were joyned were beleevers before they joyned ; for it is said , divers were added , ver. . thirdly , those that were added to the church , were added and joyned to them by such an act as others durst not put forth , act. . . of the rest durst no man joyne unto them , and therefore it was not by the irresistable act of god in converting of them , but by some volun●ary act of their owne choice and consent ; for gods converting grace depends not upon mans daring , or not daring to receive it . if to be joyned be no more but to be converted , then when it is said , some durst not be joyned , the meaning should be , they durst not be converted , nor suffer faith to be wrought in them ; which is grosse arminianisme , suspending the converting grace of god upon the free will of the creature . fourthly , and as this joyning which others durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted ; so if it be well considered , what the thing was wherein they durst not joyne , it may appeare that it was nothing els but this , that they durst not agree , and engage themselves to be of their body and societie ; that is , they durst not joyne in covenant with them . for it cannot be meant of dwelling in the towne with them , for this they both durst doe and did : nor is it onely of joyning to heare the word in their assembly , for this also they durst doe , and many did it in great multitudes , so that many by hearing the word became beleevers , and were added to the lord both of men and women , ver. . at this very time when it is said of some they durst not joyne unto them : nor is it of joyning to them in affection , or approbation of their way , for this they also durst doe and did expresse so much in magnifying and commending them , when yet they durst not joyne unto them , ver. . which magnifying of them doth imply that they heard their doctrine , and saw their practise , and approved it , and highly commended them for the same : wherefore seeing this joyning , which some durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted , nor of joyning in habitation , nor of joyning in affection , nor in hearing the word in their assembly , nor of approbation , and expressions that way , it remaineth that it must be meant of joyning in that neere relation of church-fellowship amongst them , so as to be engaged by voluntary consent and agreement to be members of their church . fiftly , if joyning to the church , were no more but to be converted , then he that were converted were joyned as a member of every visible church throughout the world , which were a great confusion of that order , and distinction of churches , which the lord hath appointed . men may be joyned to the church , in heartie affection and love , and yet without any covenant . true , but this will not make them members of that church , for then saul was member of the church at hierusalem , afore he was joyned a member , for he was joyned to them in heartie affection afore , and therefore assayed to joyne as a member ; and so were they that durst not joyne , act. . . yea then a man should be a member of many churches , yea of all christian churches in the world ; for he is to love them , and beare heartie affection to them all ; the true members of the churches in england are united in heartie affection , to the churches in scotland , in holland , in france , in new-england , &c. and yet they are not members of all these churches , nor subject to their censures as members are . but the reason of that is because they doe not dwell among them in the same towne . neither would habitation with them in the same towne , make a man a member of the church there , if there be no more then so . suppose saul to have dwelt in the same house afore his conversion in which he dwelt after , which is not unpossible nor unlikely ; yet we see he was no member of the church at hierusalem , afore his conversion , no nor of some time after , though he might have dwelt in an house in the midst of the christians , and church-members there . the members of the dutch and french churches in london , or other townes in england , are not members of the english●congregations or churches , no more then the english are of theirs , and yet they dwell promiscuously together in the same s●recte of the same towne . towne-dwelling would not make a man a free-man of a company in london , or some other corporation ; for many others dwell in the towne with them ; yea it may be in the same streete , that are not free of their company , and so it is in this case . but the reason why such as dwell in towne with the church , are not members thereof , may be , because they frequent not their assemblies . idiots and infidells might come into the publick meetings among the corinthians , . cor. . , , . yet idiots and infidells were not therefore members of the church . and saul after his conversion might have come in among the church in time of publick duties , and have seene and heard all that they had done : yet this would not have made him of one body with them . some indians , moores , and other naturall persons come into our meetings in new-england , some of their owne accord , and others by the command or counsell of their masters and governours , yet no man can say , that all these are hereby made church-members . wherefore seeing neither conversion , nor loving affection , nor cohabitation , nor coming into their meetings , doth joyne a man as a member of the visible church ( for some men have all these , and yet are not members , and others are sometimes members of the visible churches , and yet want some of these , are hypocrites and want sound conversion ) it remaineth therefore that as sound conversion makes a man fit matter for a church ; so profession of his faith , and of his subjection to the gospel , and the churches approbation , and acceptance of him ( which is the summe of church-covenant ) is the formall cause that gives him the being of a member . but joyning doth not alway signifie joyning in covenant ; philip joyned to the eunnuchs chariote , and dust to mens feete , act. . . & luke , . and yet there was no covenant , and therefore men may joyne to the church without any covenant . the word indeed may expresse any close joyning , whether naturall , ( as the branch is joyned to the vine , or an arme or other member to the body ) or artificiall , as when two stickes were joyned to become one in ezekiels hand , ezek. . or when carpenters or masons doe joyne pieces of stone or timber together , to make one house , neh. . . ezr. . . but is not onely the force of the word that is stood upon . but when joyning is used to expresse such joyning , wherein a man voluntarily takes on him a new relation , there it alwayes implyes a covenant , whether the relation be morall and civill , or religious and ecclesiasticall : we speake of voluntary relation , for there are naturall relations , as betweene parents and children : and these need no covenant , there is no covenant to make a man a parent , or a childe ; there are also violent relations , as between conquerour and captives , and in these there is no covenant neither ; but others are voluntary , and these alwayes imply a covenant , and are founded therein , whether they be morall and civill ( as between husband and wife , pro. . . between master and servants , luk. . . between prince and subject , between partners in trade , chro. . , , . where the covenant or agreement is , that men shall bare such a share of charges , and receive such a share of profits : ) or religious , as between minister and people , between the church and the members : all these are done by way of covenant . a man cannot joyne himselfe to a woman as her husband , but by way of covenant : a man cannot joyne himselfe to another as a servant , or apprentise , but by way of covenant ; and so may we say of all the rest ▪ nor into any body corporate , but by the same way and means . if men be united into a body politick or incorporate , a man cannot be said to be joyned to them by meere heartie affection , unlesse withall he joynes himselfe unto them by some contract or covenant . now of this nature is every particular church , a body incorporate , cor. . . yee are the body of christ , &c. and hath power to cast out , cor. . ▪ as a body incorporate ; and therefore he that will joyne unto them , must doe it by way of covenant or agreement ; and so this answer to this objection , may be a fourth argument to prove the point in hand , that joyning in covenant is that which makes a man , a member of a church . all voluntary relations , all relations which are neither naturall nor violent , are entred into by way of covenant . but he that joynes into a church as a member , or enters into a church , doth take upon him such a relation ; therefore joyning to a church as a member , is by way of covenant . a fifth argument may be drawne from the power which all churches , officers and members , have over all their members in the lord . if all churches , officers , and members , have power in the lord over all their members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to make a man a member of a church , but the former is true , therefore the latter is true also . the assumption in this argument , that all churches have power over their members , is proved from cor. . , . . where the apostle reproveth the corinthians for suffering the incestuous man amongst them , and commands them to deliver him to sa●an , and cast him out from amongst them . now this he would not have done , if they had had no power over him , or if there had been any roome for them to say , wee have nothing to doe with him , wee have no power over him . and the same is prooved in other scriptures also ; as , mat. . . psal. . . , , . and the consequence of the major proposition , viz. that then members doe engage themselves by covenant , is proved by this reason ; that churches have no power over such as have not engaged themselves by covenant , and committed power unto them , by professing to be subject to all the ordinances of christ amongst them . the truth whereof may appeare by two reasons : first , because all christians have power and right , jure divino , to choose their owne officers to whom they commit their soules , act. . & . & . where the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , imports choosing by election : and so the word is used and translated , cor. . . he was chosen by the churches , &c. it is not ministeriall gifts that makes a man a minister to every church , nor investeth him with spirituall power over them , nor though he dwell amongst them , unlesse they call him , and he accept of that call : and as they have power to choose their officers , so likewise to choose their brethren according to god , rom. . . now if they have power to choose their officers and brethren , then none can have power over them as officers and brethren , without their owne consent , and whom they never chose , nor promised by any covenant or engagement to be subject to the lord . secondly , if the church should exercise any act of church-power over such a man as never entred into covenant with them ( suppose to excommunicate him for whoredome or drunkennesse , or the like ) the man might protest against their act , and their sentence , as coram non judice , and they could not justifie their proceedings , if indeed there have passed no covenant or engagement between him and them . if he shall say , you have nothing to doe to passe sentence or censure upon me , i am none of your church , but of another church ; suppose in holland , in france , &c. and i am onely here now for merchandise sake , or upon some other occasion : what shall they say to stop his mouth , if there never passed any covenant between him and them . but ministers have power over the people by the word of god , heb. . . thes. . . tim. . . and not by mens engaging themselves by covenant . but what is it that makes men ministers to such a people , officers to such a church , or maketh them sheepe of my flocke ? is it not those scriptures that makes every man a pastour , or teacher , or ruler to a people , unlesse they call him to that office ; and then in so doing they covenant and engage themselves to be subject to him in the lord , and then those scriptures take hold on them . one might as well say , it is not the covenanting of a wife to her husband that gives him power over her , but the word of god ; for as the word of god commands people to obey their ministers , so it commands wives to be subject to their husbands , ephes. . . and yet all men know , a man cannot take this woman for his wife but by covenant . so that if shee once makes her selfe a wife by her owne voluntary covenant , then the word of god takes hold on her , and bindes her to doe the duties of a wife : but if shee , hath made no covenant , the man hath no power over her as her husband , neither is shee his wife ; so if men once make themselves members of such a church , sheepe of such a mans flocke , by their own voluntary covenant , then the wo●d of god takes hold of them , and bindes them to doe the duties of members to their fellow-brethren , and of people to their pastours or ministers . but if they never chose such a man to be their minister , nor covenanted to be subject to him in the lord , he then can have no power over them as a minister unto them , because they have right to chose their owne ministers . a sixth argument may be taken from the distinction that is between members , and not members . if there be by the word of god a distinction , between members of the church and such as are no members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to the being of a member ; but the former is true , as appeares cor. . . some are within , and may be judged by the church , and others are without , and may not : and therefore the latter is true also . and the reason of the consequence is because there is nothing else without this joyning in covenant , that can sufficiently distinguish them ; it is not faith and grace in their hearts , for some men are members of the visible church , and yet have no grace , and others may have grace , and yet be no members , and therefore this is not the thing that doth distinguish them , nor is it affection , nor cohabitation , nor every approbation of the word of god , and the wayes of his church , not comming into their assemblies to heare the word ; but these things were touched before , and therefore may be here the more briefly passed over . and so much shall suffice to have spoken of the second particular , concerning the use of church-covenant , tha●●t is by joyning therein that a particular person becomes a member of a church . but here it will be needfull to remove sundry objections , which may seeme to some to be of great weight against church-covenant , that so by the removing of them , the truth may be the more cleared , to fu●ler satisfaction , if it be the will of god . church-covenant is a terme that is not found in s●ripture . first , so is sacrament , trinitie , &c. and yet those termes may be lawfully used , because the thing meant thereby is found . secondly , but seeing the covenant is between the lord and his church , as the two parties that are confederate , it is all one whether it be called the lords covenant , or the church-covenant : as when mamre , aver , & eschol were confederate with abraham , gen. . . might not one truely say , abraham was confederate with them ? relatives doe mutually put and establish one another . thirdly , the scripture allowes both the lords covenant with the church , eze. . . & the peoples covenant or saints covenant , or churches covenant with him , deut. . . psal. . . ier. . . fourthly , there is good reason for both the words ; both the lords covenant , and the church-covenant , because both are confederate ; and for that of church-covenant , there is this reason also , viz. to distinguish it from other covenants , as a marriage-covenant , pro. . . and a brotherly covenant , sam. . . the church - covenant being thus called not onely because they are a church , or members thereof that make it , but also because they enter into it in reference to church-estate and church-duties : the duties which they bind themselves unto in this covenant being such especially as concern a church and the members thereof . but this church-covenant puts some disparagement upon the covenant of grace , which every beleever is already entred into with god , and seeme to charge the same with insufficiency ; for every second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , heb. . . . a second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , where the covenants are contrary one to another , as the covenant of ●race , and the covenant of works are , and so it is most true , that the bringing in of the free covenant of grace did argue that righteousnes and life could not be attained by the law , or covenant of works ; for if there had been a law given which could have given life , verily righteousnesse should have been by the law . gal. . . rom. . . . but if it be the same covenant that is renewed or made againe , though upon a new occasion , no man can say that entring into the same the second time , or a third , or a fourth , doth disanull the first , or cast dispa●agement upon the same . the covenant of works given to adam was not blamed or saulted , because it was renewed in sinai the covenant of grace was first given to adam in paradise after his fall , afterward to abraham , then to the people of israel under types and shadows ; and againe after the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet none of these doth disanull the former , or argue the same to be ●aulty ; and the reason is , because it is still the same covenant though renewed upon new occasions ; and in some particulars in some other manner . and the like we say concerning church-covenant , or the covenant which a man makes when he enters into the church , viz. that it is not another covenant contrary to the covenant of grace , which every beleever is brought into at his first conversion , but an open profession of a mans subjection to that very covenant , specially in the things which concerne church estate , into which estate the man is now entring . it is not lawfull to make such a covenant as the church-covenant , because it is not in our power to keep it , and we do not know whether god will give us power . this ground is very true , that no man hath power of himselfe to any thing that good is , but all a mans power and abilitie must come of god through ch●ist , . cor. . . phil. . . ioh. . . but the in●erence is not good , that therefore it should be unlawfull to ento into church-covenant : for . by the same reason , all promises are unlawfull , and all covenants whatsoever ; as the covenant of marriage , the covenant of service , yea and the personall covenant o● grace , when a particular soule promiseth faith and new obedience ; for there is none of these , no not the covenant of marriage , which a man is able of himself to keep , as the adultery of david and bathsheba , among others , doth plainly prove . . god hath promised to give power to them that in self-deniall seek it of him , and trust to his promise for it . ezek. . . ier. . . rom. . . ier. . . the true inference therefore from this ground , from mans disabilitie to performe were this , that therefore a man should not enter into church covenant in his owne strength , for that was peters fault in promising not to deny christ , but to die with him rather : but church-covenant , as also all other promises , should be entred into , in an humble looking up to christ jesus for help and assistance to performe . thou therefore my sonne , be strong in the grace that is in christ iesus , . tim. . . god disalloweth covenants of mans making ( and so our church-covenant ) in those words , but not by thy covenant . ezek. . . god doth not reprove them there for making covenant , for then he were contrary to himselfe , who elsewhere called them to do it , exod. . deut. . and commended them for it , psal. . . yea and in that very place of ezek. . acknowledgeth a covenant betweene him and them , ver. . . but the meaning is , he would do them good , but not for their good keeping the covenant of works , for they had very sinfully broken it , ver. . but even as he saith elsewhere , not for their sakes , or for their righteousnesse , ezek. . . deut. . , , . but what force is there in this arguing , viz. if god will do us good , but not for our good keeping the covenant of works , then it is not lawfull to promise obedience to the covenant of grace , in such things as concerne church estate ; all men may easily see that here is a plaine non sequitur . this entring into covenant may keep out many good men from joyning to the churches , because they are not satisfied about it : and therefore it is better laid aside . it is not impossible , but good men may for a time be unsatisfied about it , till they understand the nature and use of it , and yet the thing be warrantable enough for all that in the sight of god ; the tribes were troubled at the altar set up upon the banks of jordan by the two tribes and an halfe , till they understood the intent and use of it , and for what purpose it was erected : and then they were satisfied . iosh. . and the same may be said of peters eating with the gentiles , which at the first was very offensive to them of the circumcision , till they understood what peter had to say for his defence therein , and then they rested well satisfied , act. . but if men understand what the church-covenant is , there is no reason that good men should be troubled at it ; it being nothing else but a promise of obedience unto the gospel of christ , or of such duties as the gospel requireth of all christians in church-estate : for , will good men refuse to obey the gospel , or submit to the ordinances of christ ? or will they refuse to professe and promise so much ? if a man understand what it is , and what we meane by it , and yet refuse to enter into it when he hath opportunitie thereto , such refusing is no part of his goodnesse , but is to be reckoned amongst his corruptions ; it is ignorance at the best , and if not so , then it may be perversenesse of will , or some want of will to performe obedience to the gospel . and surely there is smal hope that such would yeeld subjection and obedience to the gospel , who do refuse to professe or promise it . but the scripture , act. . . tels of joyning to the church without any covenant . for it was not possible that . should enter into covenant in one day . two things may be said in answer to this objection . first , that . were not so many , but that joyning in covenant might easily be done by them all , in one day . for , . it was at penticost , at which time of the yeer the dayes were at the longest : and , . the scripture tels us , that david made a covenant with all the tribes of israel in one day , . sam. , , . the articles of the covenant betweene david and the tribes , and so betweene this . and the lord might be openly declared , and they both the one and the other might by some signe or other , expresse their consent thereunto in one day . secondly , as joyning in covenant is a thing that might be done , so it is more then probable that indeed it was done , by those . soules . for it is said , ver. that they gladly received the word , that is , they openly professed that they did with all their hearts receive it , for this receiving of the word is noted as a condition , upon which they were admitted to baptisme , and therefore it was not onely an inward receiving of it in their hearts , but also an open professing that they did receive it ; for an inward receiving of it in their hearts , without an open professing thereof outwardly , would not have been sufficient for the admitting of them unto bapti●me . now this word which they received was an exhortation to repentance for sinne , and to faith in the promise , ver. . . and to obedience in severing themselves from others , and saving themselves from that untoward generation , ver. . and therefore when they openly professed , that they gladly received this word , there was an open professing of their repentance for sinne , ver. . of their faith in the promise , and of obedience to the commandement , which is nothing else , but the very summe of church-covenant : yea , and further , their very preparation to this repentance , faith and obedience , in that true compunction and sorrow of soul , was also openly made manifest . ver. . but yet there would not be such long narrations , of every one severally as now are used , when men do enter into church-covenant , when each one makes a good long speech , in the profession of his faith and repentance . when the thing is certaine , as was shewed before , that they did openly professe repentance , faith and obedience , it is not difference in the length or largenesse of their spe●ches in expressing of themselves , that can make any difference in the thing : majus & minus non diversisicant speciem . and we denie not but they might be briefer , because there was not such need they should be long in regard of some difference betweene them and us , their time and ours : first there were the apostles present to heare their confessions , and to judge thereof , who were men of very good discerning , and therefore briefer expressing of mens selves might suffice ; whereas the best christians , yea the best ministers amongst us are not to be compared to the apostles ; and therefore as we need more time for study , and for preparation for our sermons then they did : so likewise we need more time to heare , and try the soundnesse of mens repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . yet this we may adde withall , that if the apostles and those primative christians , men of such excellent discerning were sometimes deceived , and could not alwayes so discern , but that some hypocrites would creep into the church : as the example of ananias and saphira doth witnesse ; how much more need is there , that the churches of god in these dayes ( being far inferiour to them ) should be very watchfull and circumspect in trying the spirituall estates of them that offer to come into the church ? secondly , their times also differed from ours : for their christianitie was a matter of reproach and danger of excommunication , ioh. . . of imprisonment , act. . . and . . and the like . and therefore to see men now to make open profession of their faith in christ jesus , whose servants and disciples were so hated , and who himselfe but a while before was crucified , this was not an ordinarie matter : and therefore in words , men might be the briefer when they came to be received into the church : but our times in new england do not persecute christ , and christians , and christian churches , but countenance them , and protect them ; and therefore there is more need now to be more studious in examination of mens estates when they offer themselves for church members : when the jews were in favour , many of the people of the land became jews , esth. . . but why is there so little proofe of this church-covenant in the new testament ? . suppose the new testament said nothing of it , yet it might have ground sufficient from the scriptures of the old testament ; for if it was gods revealed will in those dayes , that a companie should become a church , and particular persons become members of that church by way of covenant , we may be sure it is so now likewise , unlesse covenanting were peculiar to the jewish paedigogie ; indeed if it had never been used in those times , but were some new ordinance , peculiar to the dayes of the new testament , in such cases also a ground from the scriptures of the new testament were necessarie , as there is in all such things wherein there is any change or variation , from what was used in those times afore christ , as that there should not be nationall churches , but congregationall , and not one visible church , but many , that there should be baptisme , and the lords supper : these are matters that are not found in the old testament , nor were appointed to be used in those dayes , and therefore we must have warrant for them in the new , and so we have . but for the covenant it is otherwise , it is no new ordinance peculiar to the dayes of the gospel , nor any leviticall ordinance peculiar to the jewish pedigogie ; and therefore the scriptures of the old testament that give warrant for it , may be sufficient as hath been shewed afore . . and yet there is not wanting good warrant for it , that it ought to be used , in the dayes of the new testament . for , . the prophets do foretell it , isa , , , and . and ier. . . ez●k , . . and in sundrie other places , to omit the rest at this time , because some of them have been spoken of before ; onely let those words of isa. . . be well considered , and see if they do not plainly hold forth that in the dayes of the new testament , men should openly professe their faith , and solemnly bind themselves by coven●nt to be the lords people , one shall say , i am the lords , and another shall call himself by the name of iacob , and another shall subscribe with his hand , and sirname himself by the name of israel . these words are so plaine for open professing of faith in the lord , and open binding of mens selves by covenant unto him , as we conceive nothing need be more . . the apost●es do sufficiently testifie , that such a thing was practised in heir dayes , 〈◊〉 how should we understand that fellowship in the gospel in its full latitude and breadth , phil. . . if this combining into church fellowship be no part thereof ; yea when it is said , they continued stedfastly , or as the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , may well be translated , they strongly did cleave together , or hold together in such a fellowship , which was not preaching and hearing the doctrine of the apostles , nor sacraments , no● prayer , but a thing distinct from all these . if this combining themselves into a spirituall fellowship and societie of church-state be no part thereof , we know not how to understand it , nor what that fellowship should meane ; if doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer had not been particularly mentioned , in the same place , it might have been thought that the fellowship in which they so steadfastly clave together had been no more , but their coming together to observe these said ordinances , and their communion therein . but when all these are particularly mentioned , and fellowship mentioned among them , as a thing distinct from the rest , we may not confound it with the rest . we might as well say , that by doctrine is meant sacraments , and by sacraments is meant prayer ; as to say that by fellowship is meant not●ing else but the exercise of doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer . and if these as they are distinctly named be distinct ordinances , and may not be confounded , then fellowship being named in the same manner imports something distinct from them all , and may not be confounded with them , nor with any of them , no more then the other may be confounded one with another . and if so , then as this fellowship may import , the communion of their gift and goods one for the helpe of another , so it must first of all imply a combining of themselves into church-state by mutuall ag●eement , consent , or covenant . furthermore , when the apostle writ●th , that by experience of the corinthians liberall contribution to the poore saints , men glorified god for their professed subjection to the gospel of christ , . cor. . . he plainly imployes thereby , that the corinthians had made a profession or promise of such subjection to the gospel as did comprehend this particular of distributing to the necessitie of the saints , among other things . and their liberall distribution which he there speaks of , was looked at as one point of their reall performance of that subjection to the gospel , which they had before professed , and promised . now the church-covenant is nothing else , but the professing or promising of such subjection , and therefore this place is another proofe of church-covenant . besides , it hath been shewed afore in argument . that those places which speake of being added to the church , of joyning , or assaying to joyne unto the church , act. . . and . and . are not expounded according to the full meaning of them , when they are understood of any other joyning , if joyning in covenant be left out . and therefore the scriptures of the new testament do beare good witnesse unto church-covenant , though , as we said before , the scriptures of the old testament might have been sufficient if the new testament had spoken nothing of it . but baptisme makes men members of the visible church , and therefore the covenant is needl●sse . this is answered in the answer to the fourth of the . questions , where it is shewed at large that baptisme ●s a seale of the covenan● betweene god and the church , but neither makes the church , nor members of the church , nor alwayes so much as proves men to be members . this church-covenant is a late devise , and was not known in ancient time , and therefore is to be rejected . fi●st , true antiquitie is that of the scriptures . now sith church covenant is warranted by the scripture , as hath been shewed before in this discourse , it cannot be charged to want true antiquitie . when the papists are wont to charge the doctrine of protestants with novelty , and such as was never heard of before luther , the orthodoxe are wont to answer , that if the doctrine do not agree with the scripture , then let it be condemned for noveltie ; and if it do , it is warranted by the best antiquitie , even the testimonie of god himself who is the antient of dayes : our faith , saith doctor white , is in all points the same that is contained in the scripture , and so consequently of the same antiquitie : and therefore all they that say it came up but of late , must first prove it contrary to the word of god , or else hold their peace . white , way , . . and the same we say in this particular of the church-covenant . secondly , and yet they that search the stories and writers of the times and ages next after the apostles , may find some testimonie of church-covenant in those dayes : for instance , iustine martyr in his apol. . makes mention of three things which were required of all that were admitted into the church as members , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that is regeneration , and soundnesse in the faith , and a promise to walke in obedience to the gospel . and generally this was the practise of all those times , that never any man was admitted to baptisme , nor his children neither , but they put him to answer three questions , abrenuntios ? whereto he answered , abrenuntio . credis ? whereto his answer was , credo : and spondes ? to which he answered , spondeo . so that here was an open declaration of his repentance from dead works , and of the soundnesse of his faith , in the two first particulars , and an open binding himself by covenant or promise to walke according to the gospel , in the third . but much needs not to be said in this point , unto them that do acknowledge scripture antiquitie to be sufficient , though after times should be found to swerve from the rules and patterns that are therein contained . if church-covenant be so necessarie , then all the reformed churches are to be condemned as no churches ; for they have no such covenant . they that have knowne those churches , not onely by their writings , and confessions of their faith , in synods and otherwise ; but also by living amongst them , and being eye-witnesses of their order , do report otherwise of them , viz. that they are combined together by solemne covenant with god and one another . zepperus , speaking of the manner , used in the reformed churches , in admitting the children of church-members to the lords table , when they came to age , and have been sufficiently catechised , and instructed in the doctrine of religion , tells us , that such children are admitted to the lords table , by publick profession of faith , and en●ring into covenant . cons●etum est , saith he , ut qui per aetate●i●que doctrinâ catecheticâ profectum ad sacram coenam primum a 〈◊〉 , fidei confessionem coram totâ ecclesiâ publice edant p●r parentes aut qui parentum l●co sunt , jussû ministri , in ecclesiae 〈◊〉 producti : quò●que in illa confessione , per dei gratiam 〈◊〉 , ac , juxta illam , vitam instituere , insuper etiam disciplinae ecclesiasticae ultrò ac sponte suâ subjicere sese velint , spondeant atque stipulentur , polit. eccles. lib. . cap. . p. . that is , the manner is , that they who by reason of age and proficiencie in the doctrine of catechisme are first admitted to the lords supper , should publickly before the whole church make confession of their faith , being brought forth into the sight of the church by their parents , or them that are instead of parents , at the appointment of the minister ; and likewise should promise and covenant by the grace of god to continue in that faith which they have confessed , and to lead their lives according to it ; yea , and moreover to subject themselves freely and willingly to the discipline of the church . these words we see are full and plaine , that children are not in those churches received to the lords supper , without personall confession of faith , and entring into covenant before ; and if they tooke this course with children come to age , there is as much reason , or more , that the same course should be holden with men of yeers , when they are admitted members . and so the same zepperus , speaking of the consociation of churches amongst themselves by mutuall confsederation , hath these words , which as they may be applyed to the combining of many churches , so may they be combining of many members of the same church , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} illa {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , quam in symbolo profite nunc apostolico , nihil aliud hic requirit , & vult , quam obligationem omnium ecclesiae membrorum & confoederationem , &c. that is , that communion of saints which we professe in the creed , doth require and meane nothing else but an obligation of all the members of the church , and a binding of them together by covenant . polit. eccles. li. c. . p. . to these testimonies of z●pperus , those words may be added of mr. parker our own countreyman , a man of singular note for learning and holinesse , who also himselfe lived sometimes beyond sea in the reformed churches , and there ended his dayes , so that we may safely give the more credit to his testimonie , he having so good meanes fully to know the state and order of those churches . now he speaketh of a solennis forma absque quâ in ecclesiae alicujus communionem nullus ritè recipitur : of a solemne forme , without which no man is rightly received into the communion of the church , hath these words . hic mos ille est reformatarum ecclesiarum non solum in lapsis restituendis , sed in extra●eis , imò quibuscunque recipiendis qui ad habitandum alicubi con●ident , etsi fortè in ecclesiâ illius loci quo ante commorabantur , juxta hanc formam admissi prius fuerant . examinat presbyterium , plebs consentit , quisque testes vitae suae secum adfert , vel testimonia saltem : publicatur nomen cujusque competentis pro concione , admonetur quisque siquid haebeat quod excipiat , ut denunciet presbyteris . si nihil contr● adferatur , admittitur quidem , sed non nisi solerni pactione cum deo & cum e●clesiâ . spondet verò ecclesiae , se ambulaturum prout sanctam illam communionem decet ; disciplinae illius ecclesiae subjacere velle , se fratribus illius communionis invigilaturum juxta christi prae ceptum , matth . . ut pra-veniantur sanenturque seandala , & illi ad studium bonorum operum provehantur . that is , this is the manner of the reformed churches , not onely in restoring such as have fallen , but in admitting of strangers , yea of all whoever they be , who do sit down in any place for habitation , though perhaps they have been formerly admitted after the same manner in the church where they have forme●ly dwelt ; the presbytery doth examine , the people do consent , every man brings with him witnesses of his life , or at least-wise testimonies : the name of each one that desires to be a member , is published in the assembly , every one is admonished if he have any exception against the party , to bring it to the presbytery . if nothing be brought against him , then indeed he is admitted ; but yet no otherwise then by a solemne covenant with god and the church ; and to the church he promiseth that he will walk as becometh that holy fellowship , that he will be subject to the discipline of that church , that he will watch over the brethren of that communion , according to the command of christ , mat. . . that offences may be prevented and healed , &c. polit. eccles. lib. . cap. . § . pag. , . much more he hath to the same purpose in that place , alledging sundry canons and decrees of synods of reformed churches , wherein they have determined that none should be received into their churches , but by this way of solemne covenant . and others that have lived amongst them may have been eye-witnesses that this is their usuall practise . but what shall be said of the congregations in england , if churches must be combined by covenant ? doth not this doctrine blot out all those congregations out of the catalogue of churches ? for what ever covenant may be found in the reformed churches in other parts , yet it is plaine that she english have none . though we deny not but the covenant in many of those congregations is more imp●●cite and not so plaine as were to be desired ; ( and what is amis●e in them , in their materialls , or in want of explicite combining of pure matter , or in any of their wayes wee will not take upon us to defend ) yet we hope we may say of them with master park●r , polit. eccl●s . lib . cap. § . pag. . non ab●st ea realis & substantialis ( quanquam mag is quàm par erat implicita ) coitio in foedus , ●aque voluntaria professio fidei substantialis : quâ ( deo gratia ) essentiam ecclesiae idque visibilis hacusque sar●am tectam in angli● conservavis ; that is , there wants not that reall and substantiall comming together , ( or agreeing in covenant , though more implicate then were meete ) and that substantiall profession of faith , which ( thanks be to god ) hath preserved the essence of visible churches in england unto this day . the reasons why wee are loath to say , that the congregations in england are utterly without a covenant , are these : first , because there we●e many christian churches in england in the apostles time , or within a while after , as m●ster fox sheweth at large , act. & mon. lib. . beginning pag where he reporteth out of gildas , that england received the gospel in the time of tiberius the emperour , under whom christ suffered , and that ioseph of arima●hea was sent of philip the aposti● from france to england about the yeare of christ . and remained in england all his time , and so he with his fellowes layd the first foundation of christian faith among the britaine people , and other preachers and teachers comming afterward , confirmed the same and increased it . also the said master fox reporteth out of tertullian , that the gospel was dispearsed abroad by the sound of the apostles into many nations , and amongst the rest into britaine , yea into the wildest places of britaine , which the romans could never attaine unto : and alledgeth also out of nic●phorus , that simon zelotes did spread the gospel to the west ocean , and brought the same into the iles of britaine : and sund●y other proofes he there hath for the same point . now if the gospel and christian religion were brought into england in the apostles times , and by their means , it is like that the english churches were then constituted by way of covenant , because that was the manner of constituting churches in the apostles time , as also in the times afore christ , as hath been shewed from the scripture before in this discourse . and if christian congregations in england were in those times combined by covenant , then eternitie of gods covenant is such , that it is not the interposition of many corruptions that may arise in after times that can disanull the same , except when men wil●ully breake covenant and reject the offers of the gospel through obstinacy , which we perswade our selves they are not come unto : and consequently the covenant remaines which hath preserved the essence of churches to this day ; though the mixture of manifold corruptions , have made the covenant more implicite then were mee●e . secondly , because there want no good records ( as may be seene in seldens history of tithes ) to prove that in former times in england it was free for men to pay their tithes and oblations where themselves pleased : now this paying of tithes was accounted as a dutie of people to their minister , or sheepe to their pastour : and therefore seeing this was by their owne voluntary agreement and consent , their joyning to the church as members thereof , & to the ministery thereof as sheepe of such a mans flock , was also by their owne voluntary agreement and consent : and this doth imply a covenant . it was not the precincts of parishes that did limit men in those dayes , but their owne choice . thirdly , those questions and answers ministred at baptisme , spoken of before , ( viz. do st thou renounce ? i doe renounce : doest thou beleeve ? i doe beleseve : doest thou promise ? i doe promise ) as they were used in other places , so were they also in england , and are unto this day , though not without the mixture of sundry corruptions . now this doth imply a covenant . and when the children came to age , they were not to be admitted to the lords supper , before they had made personall confession of their owne faith , and ratified the covenant which was made at their baptisme by their parents , which course indeed afterward did grow into a sacrament of confirmation , but that was an abuse of a good order . if here it be said , that the members of the parishionall assemblies are not brought in by their owne voluntary profession , but by the authority and proclamation of the prince , and therefore they have no such covenant . the answer is , that the christian prince doth but his dutie when he doth not tollerate within his dominions any open idolatry , or the open worship of false gods by baptized persons , but suppresseth the same : and likewise when he gives free libertie to the exercise of all the ordinances of true religion , according to the minde of christ , with countenance also and encouragement unto all those whose hearts are willingly bent thereunto , ezra . . & . and therefore this practise of his cannot overthrow the ●reenesse of mens joyning in church-communion , because one dut●e cannot oppose nor contradict another . and suppose that this course of the magistrate shou●d seeme to be a forcing of some to come in for members who were unfit , ( in which case it were not justifiable ) yet this doth not hinder the voluntary subjection of others , who with all their hearts desired it . when the israelites departed out of aegypt , there went a mixed multitude with them ▪ many going with them that were not israelites indeed , exod. . and in the dayes of morde●ay and hesth●r , many of the people of the lands became iewes , when the iewes were in favour and respect , est. . . and so joyned to them not of their owne voluntary minde , nor of any sincere heart towards god , but meerely for the favour or feare of men ; yet this forced or feined joyning of some could not hinder those that were israelites indeed from being israelites , nor make the iewes to be no iewes , no church-members . and the same may be said in this case , suppose the magistrates proclamation should be a cause , or an occasion rather , of bringing some into the church , who came not of their owne voluntary minde , but for feare , or for obteining favour , yet this cannot hinder , but others might voluntarily and freely covenant to be subject to the gospel of christ : such subjection and the promise of it being the thing which themselves did heartily desire , though the magistrate should have said nothing in it . if any shall hereupon inferre , that if the parishionall assemblies be churches , then the members of them may be admitted to church priviledges in new england , before they joyne to our churches : such one may finde his answer in the answer to the tenth of the thirty-two questions ; whereunto we doe referre the reader for this point . onely adding this , that this were contrary to the judgement and practise of the reformed churches , who doe not admit a man for member without personall profession of his faith , and joyning in covenant , though he had formerly been a member of a church in another place , as was shewed before out of master parker . lastly , if any say , that if these reasons prove the english congregations to have such a covenant as proves them to be churches , then why may not rome , and the assemblies of papists goe for true churches also ? for some man may thinke that the same things may be said for them that here in answer to this eleventh objection are said for the parishes in england : such one must remember two things : first , that we doe not say simply , a covenant makes a company a true church , but ( as was said before ) a covenant to walke in such wayes of worship to god and edification of one another , as the gospel of christ requireth . for who doubts , but there may be an agreement among theeves , pro. . a confederation among gods enemies , psal. . a conspiracy among the arabians , the ammonites and ashdodites , to hinder the building of hierusalem , neh. . , . and yet none of these are made true churches by such kind of confederacies or agreements . and so wee may say of the assemblies of papists , especially since the counsell of trent . if there be any agreement or confederacy among them , it is not to walke in the wayes of the gospell , but in wayes contrary to the fundamentall truths of the gospel , as idolat●y in worship , heresie in doctrine , and other antichristian pollutions and corruptions : and therefore if they combined in these things , such combinations will never prove them true churches . the church is the pillar and ground of truth , tim. . . but the religion of papists is so farre from truth , that whosoever liveth and beleeveth according to it , without repentance , cannot be saved . witnesse their doctrine in the point of vilifying the scriptures , and in point of free-will , and of justification by works , of the popes supremacy , of the sacrifice of the masse , of worshipping of images , &c. in regard of which , and such like , the holy ghost saith , that their religion is a sea , become as the bloud of a dead man , and every soule in that sea dyeth , rev. . . and therefore agreement in such a religion will never prove them to be true churches ; nor any assemblies of arrians , antitrinitaries , anabaptists , or famelists , supposing them also to be combined by covenant among themselves . but now for the assemblies in england , the case is farre otherwise ; for the doctrine of the articles of religion which they professe , and which they promise to hold and observe ( though some things are amisse in some of those articles , and though many persons live contrary in their lives ) yet the doctrine is such that whosoever beleeveth , and liveth according to it , shall undoubtedly be saved , and many thousands have been saved therein ▪ and therefore assemblies united by covenant to observe this doctrine may be true churches , when the assemblies of papists and others may be false , although they also were combined by covenant : the reason of the difference rising from the difference that is in the doctrine and religion which they severally professe , and by covenant binde themselves to observe , the one being fundamentally corrupt , and consequently pernicious : the other in the fundamentall points orthodoxall and sound . secondly , it must be remembred also ( which was intimated before ) that if fundamentall corruptions be professed in with impenitency and obstinacy , then god may disanull the covenant on his part , and give a bill of divorce to such a people , iere. . . now experience and the scripture also doth witnesse of the jesuited and tr●nt-papists , that they repented not of the workes of their hands , of worshipping devills , and idolls of gold , &c. neither repented they of their murthers , nor of their sorceries , nor of their fornications , nor of their thefts , rev. . , . but now for the parish assemblies in england , we hope that we may safely say , they doe not sinne of obstinacy , but of ignorance , having not been convinced ( and many of them never having had means to be convinced ) of the corruptions that are amongst them , in respect of their constitution , and worship , and ministery , and so the covenant remaining among them , may prove them to be churches , when it cannot stand the papists in like stead , they being impenitent and obstinate : which we doe not speake to justifie the parishes altogether , as if there were not dangerous corruptions found in them , nay rather ( the lord be mercifull to the sinnes of his people ) wee may lament it with teares , that in respect of their members and ministery , in respect of their worship and walkings , in many of those assemblies there are found such apparent corruptions , as are justly grievous to a godly soule , that is enlightened to discerne them , and greatly displeasing to the lord , and indeed had need to be repented of betime , least otherwise the lord remove the candlesticke and unchurch them , rev. . . in a word , the corruptions remaining are just causes of repentance and humiliation : but yet in as much as the articles of religion , which they professe , containe such wholesome doctrine , that whosoever beleeveth and walketh according thereunto , in sinceritie , shall undoubtedly be saved , and in as much as the corruptions are not persisted in with obstinacy , therefore wee deny not but they have the truth of churches remaining . but this opinion of church-covenant , is holden by none but the brownists , or those of the separation , and therefore it is not to be received . this ground cannot be made good , that none but they of the separation are for church covenant , for all the reformed churches generally , as was shewed before in answer to objection the tenth , are for it in their judgement & practise ; and shall all they be condemned for * brownists , or maintaining unlawfull separation from the church ? also master parker and doctor ames , men of our owne nation , famous for holinesse and learning , and moderation , both of them plead for church-covenant , and yet neither of them were brownists , but bare witnesse against that riged separation . ●or doctor ames , his judgement of church-covenant may be seene in his medulla , theol lib. . cap. . § , , . fideles non constitunt ecclesiam particularem , quamvis simul forsan plures in eodem loco conveniant aut vivant , nisi speciali vinculo intersese conju●guntur , &c. that is , beleevers doe not make a particular church , though perhaps there be many of them that meete together , and live in the same place , unlesse they be joyned together by some speciall bond amongst themselves : for so one church would many times be dissolved into many , and many churches confounded into one . now this bond is a covenant , either expressed or implicite , whereby beleevers do binde themselves particularly to performe all such duties , both towards god and mutually to one another , as pertaine to the nature of a church , and their edification . and thereupon no man is rightly admitted into the church , but by confession of his faith , and stipulation , or promise of obedience . these words doe plainely and fully shew his judgement of church - covenant , to be the very same that is held and practised in new-england at this day . and that he was not for that severitie and regiditie of separation , may be cleared from sundry of his workes , wherein he plainly and fully beares witnesse against the same , and namely , in his fresh suite against ceremonies , pag. . and in his second manuduction , wherein he purposely and at large deales in this argument of separation . sure it is master canne in his booke , wherein he goes about to prove the necessitie of separation from the non-conformists principles , doth professedly and expressely oppose himselfe against doctor ames in the point of separation , which shewes how farre the good doctor was from favouring that way , when they most zealously therein doe count him to be a speciall opposite of theirs , as indeed he was . and for master parker , his judgement of church-covenant was heard before in part ; where he so much approveth the practise of the reformed churches in this point . and much more may be seene of his judgement herein , in the sixteenth chap. of the third booke of his p●lit . ecclesiastica . and yet in the same place , and likewise lib . c●p . ▪ . of the same treatise he plentifully and plainly shewes his dislike of the wayes of separation , as is also acknowledged in an admonition to the reader , prefixed before that booke , by ● . r. suo , suorumque nomine . so that this assertion appeares to be untrue , wherein it is said , that none but brownists and separatists doe approve of church-covenant . as for the in●erence from this ground , that therefore church-covenant should not be received , because it is pleaded for and pract●●ed by the separatists . we answer , that this will not follow , unlesse it could be proved , that the separatists hold no truth ; or if they hold a truth wee must not hold it , that so it may appeare wee differ from them ; either of which , it were unreasonable to affirme . if the papists hold sundry articles of faith , as that there is a unitie of the divine essence , and trinitie of persons , that jesus christ is god and man , and that true messiah that was promised , and the onely saviour of the world , and many such like , must wee deny these things because they are holden by the papists ? this were as unreasonable as to condemne the doctrine of the resurrection , because it was maintained by the pharisees , act. . . and so we say of church-covenant , holden and practised by them of the separation ; as also many other truths are maintained by them : no reason that truth should be refused , because the separatists maintaine it . when doctor bancroft in a sermon at pauls-crosse , had avouched that the superioritie of bishops above other ministers , is by gods owne ordinance , and to make the contrary opinion odious , affirmed that aerius per●i●ting in it , was condemned for an heretique by the generall consent of the whole church , and that martin and his companions , doe maintaine the same opinion of aerius ; what saith learned doctor reinolds hereunto , in a letter to sir francis knolls , who required him to shew his judgement herein : touching martin , saith he , if any man behave himselfe otherwise then in discretion and charitie he ought , let the blame be laid where the fault is , and defend him not ; but if by the way he utter a truth , mingled with whatsoever else , it is not reason that that which is of god should be condemned for that which is of man : no more then the doctrine of the resurrection should be reproved , because it was maintained and held by the pharisees : wherefore removing the odious name of martin from that which is sinceritie and love , is to be dealt with , &c. and the very same doe wee say to them that would make church-covenant to be odious , because it is held by those of the seperation , who are commonly called brownists : if men behave themselves otherwise then they ought , we defend them not therein , but if they hold any truth mingled with whatsoever else , wee would not have that which is of god to be condemned , for that which is of man : truth should not be refused , because of other corruptions that may be found in them that hold it . if you with them hold church-covenant , you iustifie them in all their wayes of seperation and erronious opinions . not so , for many of them hold that there are no visible christians that stand members of the parishes in england , and that it is not lawfull to hold any private religious communion with such perso●s ; and that the parishionall assemblies are none of them true churches , and that it is not lawfull to hear any of those ministers to preach the word , none of which are justified at all by holding church-covenant , though they do hold the same ; there is no such necessarie and inseparable connexion betweene these opinions , and that of church-covenant , that he that holds this , must needs hold the other also . but the time hath been , when your selves did not hold church-covenant , as now you do ; when you were in england you were not of this mind , and therefore no marvell if your change since your coming to new england be suspected , and offensive . if you change your judgement and practise in this manner , god knows whether you may come at last , and therefore men may well be afraid of holding with you in this point , which your selves did not hold when you lived in your native countrey . some of us when we were in england , through the mercie of god , did see the necessitie of church-covenant ; and did also preach it to the people amongst whom we ministred , though neither so soone nor so fully as were meete , for which we have cause to be humbled , and to judge our selves before the lord . but suppose we had never knowne nor practised the same before our coming into this countrey , yet if it be a truth of god , there is no reason why we should shut our eyes against the light , when god holds it forth unto us , nor that others should be offended at us for receiving the same . for by the same reason men might still continue in their sinnes , and not make any progresse in knowledge and holinesse , that so they may not seeme unconstant , which were contrary to the scripture , wherein we are commanded nor to fashion our selves according to the former lusts of our ignorance . . pet. . . but to be changed , rom. . . and renued , ephes. . . and put off the old man , and put on the new , ephes. . yea to grow in grace and holinesse , . pet. . . and be stronger and stronger , iob . . that our good workes may be mo●e at the last , then at the first , revel. . . sure it is , the apostle tells the corin●hians and ephesians , that the time had been when they were not the same men that now they are when he wrote unto them ; and yet he doth not blame them for leaving their former opinions or practise , but commends them for it , . cor. . . ephes. . . &c. and it is said of apollos an eloquent man , and mighty in the scripture , that when he came to ephesus the way of god was expounded unto him more perfectly by aquila and priscilla , whereas before he was instructed in the way of the lord , knowing onely the baptisme of iohn : yet this was no dispraise at all to him , that now upon better information he would change his judgement to the better , nor unto them that were the means thereof : act. . , . nullus pudor est ad maliura transire . the time hath been , ( and we may be humbled for it ) when we lived without god in the world , and some of us in many sinfull courses : and shall any be offended , because we are not still the same ? and when god called us from the wayes of sin and death , to the fellowship of his grace in christ ; yet some of us lived a long time in conformity to the ceremonies imposed in our native countrey , and saw not the evill of them . but when god did open our eyes , and let us see the unlawfulnesse thereof , we cannot see but it would have been a with-holding the truth in unrighteousnesse , and a great unthankfulnesse to god for light revealed to us , if we should still have continued in that course through an inordinate desire of seeming constant : and therefore it is not any just cause of offence that we have changed our judgement and practise in those things , when we once perceived the word of god to disallow them . indeed it hath been sometime objected against mr. cartwright , and others , that desired the reformation of the churches in england , in regard of discipline and church-order , that they which stood so much for reformation in discipline , did in after times adde and alter some things , beyond what they saw at first , and what themselves had formerly desired ; and that therefore being so mutable , and inconstant in their apprehensions , they were not to be regarded , nor hearkened unto : to which objection mr. parker makes full answer in eccles. lib. . ca. . p. . where he sheweth from the scripture , and the testimonie of bishop iewel , doctor reinolds , and others , that in the reformation of religion god brings not his servants into perfection in knowledge and zeale at the first , but by degrees , so as they grow and make progresse in these things in such wise ; that their good works are more at the last then at the first , as was said of the church of thyatira , even as the man that had been blind , when christ restored him to his sight , could at the first but see men like trees walking , and afterward saw every man cleerly ; and therefore it is no good arguing to say these men have altered and corrected such things from what their apprehensions were at first , and therefore they are not to be regarded . now if this be no good arguing against mr. cartwright , and those that in england have been studious of reformation ( as indeed it is not ) then it is no good argument against us in this matter of church-covenant , to say we now hold and practise otherwise then we have done in former time . if any shall here reply , that change from conformity to the ceremonies to worship god more purely is warranted by the word , and therefore not blame-worthy , and that the same may be said of the case of apollos , of the corinthians , and ephesians forementioned , and of cartwright , and the rest in his times . we answer , that this is true , and thereby it appears , that it is not simply the changing a mans opinion or practise that can be counted blame-worthy , or offensive , but changing without warrant of the word ; and therefore in point of church-covenant , the issue must not be whether we or others have formerly known and practised it , but whether it have ground from gods word ; for if it have ( as we hope have been proved before in this discourse ) then the observing of it , can be no cause of just offence unto others , nor imputation of inconstancy to our selves , though in time past we had not had so much light as to discerne the necessitie and use thereof . the good lord pardon every one that prepareth his heart to seek god , though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary : and grant unto all his churches and servants , that the●● love may abound yet more and more in knowledge , and in all judgement , that they may discerne the things that differ ; and approve the things that are excellent , and by his spirit of truth be led forward into all truth , till antichrist be utterly consumed with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his coming , and the holy city new jerusalem come down from god out of heaven , as a bride adorned for her husband the lambe , the lord jesus , to whom be all glory of affiance and service for ever . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- object . . answer . object . answer . object . answer . object . . answer . argu. . object . . answer . obj. . answ. obj. ● . answer . argu. . argu. . argu. . object . answer . argu. . argu. . object . answer . argu. . object . . answer . obj. . answ. obj. . object . . answ. object . . answ. argu. . argu. . object . answer . argu. . obj●ct . . answer . object . . answ. obj. . answ. obj. . answ. obj. . answ. obj. . answ. reply . answ. obj. . answ. obj. . answ. obj. . answ. obj. . answ. obj. answ. obj. . answ. * by brownists and separatists you are to understād those of the rige● separation . reply . answ. obje . . answ. reply . answ. a dissuasive from the errours of the time wherein the tenets of the principall sects, especially of the independents, are drawn together in one map, for the most part in the words of their own authours, and their maine principles are examined by the touch-stone of the holy scriptures / by robert baylie ... baillie, robert, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a dissuasive from the errours of the time wherein the tenets of the principall sects, especially of the independents, are drawn together in one map, for the most part in the words of their own authours, and their maine principles are examined by the touch-stone of the holy scriptures / by robert baylie ... baillie, robert, - . [ ], p. printed for samuel gellibrand ..., london : . 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all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng brownists. congregational churches -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a dissvasive from the errours of the time : wherein the tenets of the principall sects , especially of the independents , are drawn together in one map , for the most part , in the words of their own authours , and their maine principles are examined by the touch-stone of the holy scriptures . by robert baylie minister at glasgow . jer . . . they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth . jude ver . . it was needfull for me to write unto you and exhort you , that you should earnestly contend for the faith , which was once delivered unto the saints ; for there are certaine men crept in unawares , &c. published by authority . london , printed for samuel gellibrand at the brasen serpent in pauls church-yard , . for the right honourable the earle of lauderdaile lord metellane . your lordship , i trust , will not bee displeased that your name is set before these truths which your heart does love , and whereunto in the best companies of the whole isle you have given at many occasions your chearfull countenance and zealous patrociny ; in the study whereof i have been oft both encouraged and assisted by your lordships pious , wise , and learned informations . it has been of a long time the wish of my heart to have had nothing to do with polemick writings ; the bodies of sojours are no more subject to wounds and manifold hardships , then the minds and names of disputant divines do lie open to various vexations . the weary , starved , bleeding sould●er longs no more for a safe peace , then a spirit harassed in the toylsome labyrinth of thorny debates , pants for that quietnesse which only the finall overthrow and full subjugation of errour can produce . how pleasant will that day be to the sonnes of peace , when the lord shall make good that word which by the mouth of two of his ancient witnesses he has established , when according to the testimony of isaiah , syllabically repeated by michah , we shall beat our swords into plow-sheares , and our speares into pruning hooks , that we may walk together in the light of the lord ? but so long as divine dispensation besets our habitations both spirituall and temporall , the church no lesse then the state , with great numbers of daring and dangerous adversaries , we must be content , according to the call of the prophet ioel in another case , to prepare warre , to beat our plow shears into swords , and our pruning hooks into speares ; in this juncture of time the faint must take courage , and the weak say i am strong . it seems that yet for some time the servants of god must earnestly contend for many pretious truths , which erroneous spirits do mightily impugne : for the help and encouragement of others in that warfare , i , though among the weakest of christs souldiers , doe offer these my endeavours . it was my purpose to have made a farther progresse , and to have handled all i mention in my preface ; but being cald away from my present station by these who set me therein , upon the occasion your lordship knowes , my studies in this kinde are broken off ; so that this essay in brownisme and independency must go forth alone , or nothing at all . my ay● in these two is , and was in all the rest ; first , in an historick way to set down the originall and progresse of the errour ; next its compleat parts together in one table , that at one view the whole face of the way may be represented ; for i conceived it many wayes advantageous and very satisfactory in debating either a truth or an error , to be brought to see the fountain and originall whence it hath sprung , the streams and issues whither the tenet tends of it selfe , or is drawn by its followers ; to behold a way not in its pieces , but the whole together from the head to the feet , the begining , midst , and end without any concealment or disguise . thirdly , my purpose was to have examined the principall parts of every errour in a short , cleare , and popular method , considering the maine scriptures that use to be alledged in the point either pro or contra . i beleeve this my method will not be displeasing to any . i know it was acceptable enough to many of the congregationall way when lately i did use it against the canterburian faction ; but possibly some of the matter of my historick part may fall out to be fashions to the followers of the tenets which i labour to lay open ; for it is inavoydable to make a true and a full narration of any erroneous way , but such things must be told which will be displeasing to some ; yet i hope i have given as little offence in this kinde , as any other could have done in such a way of ●reatising ; for all the passages that may be pungent of the tenderest skin , are such , as not only i conceive to bee very true , but such also which i ever make presently good by sufficient testimonies set downe fully at the end of every chapter in the expresse words of the authors . secondly , the opinions or practises i alledge , are such as the parties themselves to this day do openly avow , or else have beene objected to them by very honest men long ago in print , and to this day , so farre as i know , are not taken off by any tolerable answer ; in all that is over and above , i will undertake to give ample satisfaction wherein soever i give the least offence to any . i date appeale to your lordships knowledge , and to many others who have beene acquainted with all my by-gone walking , how averse i have ever been from causing griefe to any , especially good men : so farre as i am conscious to my most secret intentions , it is my hearts desire that all our present controversies might quickly either be ended or composed by calme , meek , and peaceable meanes , and these alone . that lately renewed committee for accommodation , oh if it might please the lord to shine upon it , however i may not stay to see its successe ; yet wherever i am , my best wishes shall be poured upon it , especially when i shall heare , as i have great reason to beleeve is only intended , that it abides circumscribed within the bounds of that prudent order whereby it is renewed . for first , that order is so farre from holding out an accommodation for all the sects of the land , that it speaks only of the differences that are among the members of the assembly . liberty of conscience , and toleration of all or any religion is so prodigious an impiety , that this religious parliament cannot but abhorre the very nameing of it . whatever may be the opinion of io. goodwin , of mr williams and some of their stamp , yet mr burrowes in his late irenicon upon many unanswerable arguments explodes that abomination . likewise our brethren who seek to be accommodate , will be willing i hope to professe their going along with us , without any considerable d●ssent , as in the directory for all the parts of divine worship , so in the confession of faith and catechism . secondly , the order expresses only the differences in church-government ; what other opinions wee have mentioned in the following treatise , i hope our brethren will either disavow and passe from them , or else be content to bury them in their owne breasts , till time and better information make them die and vanish without more moyse . thirdly , the intent of the order is to bring up the dissenting brethren ●o approve of the government agreed upon in the assembly and allowed by both houses of parliament ; or if that cannot be , to see how in some practises they may be forborn . this doth suppose that our brethren shall not be permitted to print , preach , or publish any thing against the goverment established by parliament ; also that in the practice of this government they shall be obliged to joyne so farre with their brethren as their principles may suffer . this being , i doubt not but in many things they sha●l be much forborn ; for whatever be the unadvised rashnesse of some in their way , yet if they may be pleased , according to their frequent offers ( as i remember ) to be constant members of our presbyteries and synods , and there to give were it but their consultative voyce , i beleeve that few of them shall ever be pressed to much more ; for if they agree among themselves , and governe well their owne congregations , no controversie that concerns them will ever come before any superiour assembly ; and if any complaint of their male administration , or any matter of ordination or excommunication should come from them to be cognosced in a presbytery or synod , the result might ever be to them as a matter of advice to be executed in their owne congregations by their owne pastors , if they did finde it right : or if it appeared wrong , the generall assembly , or at least the parliament , would give them so much satisfaction , as on earth can be expected . albeit i am in opinion , that no case meerly ecclesiasticall shall ever need to goe from a generall assembly to a parliament ; these two bodies are so friendly and neare of kin , that none who knowes their nature and constitution will ever feare their discord . i dare say , that all the jealousies which are presented to the parliament of england of a nationall assembly , are meere bugbeares and childish frightments , arising alone out of mis-information and unacquaintance ; for both reason and experience will demonstrate that the parliament of england cannot have on earth so strong pillars and pregnant supporters of all their priviledges , as free protestant assemblies established by law , and kept in their full freedom from the lowest to the highest , from the congregationall eldership to the generall synod of the nation . no such barres as these are imaginable either against tyranny or anarchy ; they are the mightiest impediments both to the exorbitancy of monarchs , which has been and is our misery ; and to the extravagancy of the common multitude , attempting to correct and subject all parliaments to their owne foolish desires , which is like to be the matter of our next exercise and trouble . protestant assemblies examined to the bottom , will be found reall and cordiall friends to all the iust , legall and reasonable prerogatives of a monarch , to all the equitable and profitable liberties of the meanest subject ; but above all to every due priviledge of a christian parliament . sometimes we laugh , sometimes we grieve to see men afraid out of meere ignorance with that which we know is their great good . i am perswaded that after a little experience , congregationall sessions , cl●ssicall presbyteries , provinciall synods , and nationall assemblies will be embraced and sluck to by the parliament of england as the greatest and most usefull priviledges of their great charter . my fourth remarke upon the order in hand is , that it speakes alone of the questions of government , whereby the assemblie was retarded , but nothing of the constitution of congregations which never came to any considerable debate , much lesse did ever retard the assemblies proceedings : and albeit the words of the order might be extended beyond the government to the constitution , yet wee may not thinke that the house doth intend to tolerate the gathering of separate congregations ; in this point we hope that the desired accommodation shall satisfie our brethren , and all tolerations shall be needlesse . themselves are witnesses of our most earnest desires , of our very reall indeavours , ( and we wish , they had been much more our helper● and reall assistants ) for purging of all congregations , so far as ever they have been in any time , in any place , for making them so void of ignorance and all scandalls as scripture or any reason can require : in these our earnest requests we trust the parliament at last will shew us favour . but when the assembly and parliament have done their uttermost , to have the churches purified so farre as is possible , if notwithstanding of all that can be done , our brethren will yet separate , and peremptorily refuse to communicate as members , in the best ruled congregations , either of england , or of any other reformed church ; wee confesse , that by such a declaration , our brethren would put us to a great deale of perplexity ; for such a separation as this , were as we conceive , the most palpable and unreasonable schisme that ever yet was heard of in the christian world , much contrary to the word of god , and evidently destructive of the necessary peace of all these churches wherein it should bee tolerated ; beside its cleare contradiction in termes , not onely to the order of the house , but to the solemn league and covenant of the three kingdomes . notwiihstanding wee trust that the grace and mercy of god , shall be so richly powred out upon this revived committee , as shall enable them to expedit both us and our brethren from these otherwise unextricable labirynths . would to god that our controversies with them were brought to a happy period , that both they and we , with all our power might concurre to reduce the rest of our poore brethren , who this day are pitifully intangled in manifold heresies and errours ▪ that so all the childr●n of god being delivered from the snares and chaines of darknesse , might make it their great taske and only contention , who should honour most the name of their father , by the fragrancy of their godly , charitable , humble , chaste , and sober conversation . your lordship is conscious to the first designes of the noble patriots of that your nation , it was never their mind to have trifled so much time in jangling with their brethren of this isle , about new and needlesse questions , but expecting a facility of setling truth and peace within these s●as , their hearts were farther abroad , their thoughts were large for the propagation not of ther owne but of christs kingdome , and that not so much in the light as in the heate and life thereof . they have the more to answer who here and elsewhere have been the unhappy instruments , not only to frustrate these great and gracious enterprises for the weale-publick of christendome , but also to bring the undertakers to so low a condition , that they be obliged this day to god alone for any tollerable subsistence and their very being : albeit we are hopefull the lord is reserving good things for them , who had so much faith , charity , and courage , as to venture all for the cause of god , and their brethren , the more unkind men have proved unto them ; the lord who hath been witnesse to all their intentions , actions and sufferings , will in his owne time accordingly reward them , and will not let them be ashamed of their first hopes and constant desires , upon the which himselfe for a long time did shine so evidently from the heaven , as ever upon any enterprise on the earth . though now that brightnesse be much ecclipsed , and overclouded , yet we are expecting with passionate desires , and confident hopes , the dissolution of these clouds , and the dispelling of the present darkenesse by the strength of the beames of his ancient and undeserved kindnesse , towards that now suffering and much distressed nation . but insensibly my pen hath runne beyond the bounds of a short epistle , albeit my experience of your lordships readinesse to dispence with your friends indiscretion , makes me secure of my pardon . i will detaine your lordship no longer , i lay downe my booke at your lordships feet , to be given to the world by your lordships hand . if it be received with so much candor and charity by every reader , as i know it is offered , it may possibly prove serviceable . thus wishing to your lordship in these dayes of deepe and dangerous tryalls , and too great defection of many , constancy , and daily increase of affection to all truth , piety , iustice , and every vertue , i remaine , your lordships in all christian duty to be commanded . r. baylie ▪ london , novemb. . . the principall authors , whose testimonies are cited in the case of the brownists . the brownists confession of faith printed by themselves . ● the brownists apo●ogy printed . robert brownes life , and manners of true christians printed . henry barrow his briefe discovery of the false church . henry barrow his plaine refutation of mr gifford , . francis iohnsons enquiry and answer to thomas whites discovery of brownism , francis iohnsons christian plea , . iohn cann his guide to sion , iohn cann his necessity of separation . . apologia iusta quorundam christianorum , &c. per iohannem robinsorum . robinsons justification against bernard reprinted at london , syons royall prerogative , . a light for the ignorant . . the principall authors whose testimonies are cited in the case of the independents . . an apologeticall narration by thomas goodwin , &c. iohn cottons keyes published by thom : goodwin , and philip nye . . iohn cottons way of the churches in new-england . . iohn cottons sermons upon the seven vialls . . iohn cottons catechisme , or the doctrine of the church . . an answer to thirty two questions , by the elders of the churches in new-england , published by mr. peters . . an apology of the churches in new-england for church-covenant , or a discourse touching church-covenant . . a glimpse of syons glory in a sermon at a generall fast-day in holland , by t. g. printed at london . . ieremy burrowes sermons upon hosea . . the personall raigne of christ by io : archer , pastor of the church at arnheim . ● io : archers comfort for beleevers . . mr. burtons vindication of the independent churches . . iohn goodwins theo-machia . . a short story of the rise , reigne and ruine , &c. published with mr. welds large preface . . mr welds answer to rathbans narration . . mr cottons letter to mr. williams . . the anatomist anatomised by mr simson . . we cite also for some matters of fact , to which no satisfactory answer hath been made hitherto by the parties . mr edwards antapologie . . mr williams examination of cottons letter . . mr williams bloody tenet . . plaine-dealing , or newes from new-england by thomas lechford . . the anatomy of independency , by a learned minister of holland . . doctor bastwicks postscript . . mr. prinns fresh discovery . . the contents of the following treatise . the preface the chiefe and first meane to extinguish the flames of our warre , is , the waters of our heart poured out in prayers to god , pag. reformation after mourning , is the second step to a solid peace , p. the corruption of the church , is the fountaine of our present misery , ibid. the state cannot be setled till the church be first reformed , every man would help what hee can to recover the languishing church from her desperate disease , ibid. the offer of a strange and easie remedy of a looking-glasse , the malignity of errour , ibid. the authors intention is to set down in a table for the cleare view of all , the errours which trouble us , ibid. and that with iustice and love toward all persons , the partition of the ensuing treatise , episcopacy was the mother of all our present sects , ibid. presbytery will be their grave , the presbyteriall way of proceeding , ibid. what england rationally may expect from presbyteries and synods , chap. . the originall and progresse of the brownists . satan is the great enemy of the churches reformation , his chiefe instruments alwayes have been professed friends to religion , ibid. reformation at the begining did run with one impetuous current , ibid. what was its first stop , the fountaine of protestant discord , ibid. the unhappy principle of the lutherans , ibid. and the more unhappy principle of the anabaptists , somewhat of both these wayes was entertained in england , ibid. the originall of the english bishops and ceremonies , ibid. the originall of the separatists , brownism is a daughter of anabaptism , bolton the first known separatist in england hanged himselfe , ibid. brown the second leader of that way , recanted his schism , and to his death was a very scandalous person , ibid. the humour of barrow the third master of this sect , the strange carriage of iohnson and ainsworth , the next two leaders of the brownists , ibid. the horrible wayes of smith their sixth master , the fearfull end of smith his wandrings , robinson the last grave and learned doctor of the brownists , did in the end undermine his party , robinson the authour of independency , ibid. chap. . the doctrine of the brownists . they hold that all churches in the world , but their own , are so polluted , that they must be separate from , their injurious slanders of the church of england , ibid. yet sometimes they say , that communion maybe kept with her both in preaching and prayer , ibid. their like dealing with all the other reformed , their flattering of forraign churches is not to be regarded , ibid. the matter of a church they make to be reall saints only , their unreasonable strictnesse in this one point , is the great cause of their schism , ibid. they place the forme of their church in an expresse covenant , seven may make a perfect church , yea two or three , ibid. the erecting of a church , requires neither the magistrates nor ministers assistance , ibid. they put all church power in a handfull of people , without any pastor , the election , ordination , deposition and excommunication of the minister , belongs to his flock , and to it alone , ibid. every man of the congragation may preach , and publikely rebuke , not only the pastor , but the whole flock , yea and separate from it , some of them give the celebration of the sacraments also to private persons , ibid. the solemnizing of marriage they give to parents , but divorces they commit to the parties themselves , they make every congregation independent , and of soveraigne authority , ibid. their judgement of synods , their high conceit of their own way , and injurious depressing of all others , ibid. churches , bels , tythes , glebes , manses , and all set maintenance of ministers , are unlawfull ; not so much as a church , yard must be kept up for buriall , but all must bury in the fields , ibid. the dayes of the week , the months , the yeare of god , they will not name , no pulpits , no sand-glasses in churches , no gowns , ibid. all set prayer , even the lords prayer , and all psalms in meeter , yea in prose , if used as praises , are unlawfull , their opinion of preaching and sacraments , ibid. their strange way of celebrating the lords supper , ibid. they reject catechismes , the apostles creed , and all reading of scripture without exposition , after preaching they prophecy , ibid. then come their questions , ibid. after all , they attend a very tedious discipline , ibid. brown is for liberty of conscience , ibid. his followers are against it , their carriage towards the magistrate , ibid. they spoyle kings and parliaments of their legislative power , ibid. they oblige the magistrate to kill all idolaters , ibid. but to spare all theeves , they will have the vniversities destroyed , ibid. secular authors and learning must be abolished , ibid. preachers must study no other books but the bible , ibid. chap. . the originall and progresse of the independents , and of their carriage in new-england . independency is the smallest of all the sects of the time for number , but greatest for worth of its followers , independents are the separatists off-spring , ibid. when the spark of brownism was dying out in holland , a little of its ashes carried to new-england , broke out there into a lasting flame , by what meanes these ashes were kindled , ibid. mr cotton at first a great opposite to that way , mr cotton with little adoe , became the great patron of that errour , ibid : mr cotton was the mis-leader of mr goodwin and others , mr cotton often deceived , hath given his patrociny to divers grosse errours , ibid. why god permits great men to fall in evident errours , ibid. his prelaticall , arminian , and montanistick tenets , his antinomy and familism , ibid. independency full as unhappy as brownisme , wherefore so much of the independent way lies yet in darknesse , the fruits of independency in new-england , ibid. first , it hath put thousands of christians in the condition of pagans , ibid. secondly , it hath marred the conversion of pagans to christian religion , thirdly , it did bring forth the foulest heresies that ever yet were heard of in any protestant church , ibid. a few examples of the many abominable heresies of the new-english independents , the greatest part of their churches were infected with these errours , ibid. the piety of these hereticks seemed to be singular , ibid. their malice against all who opposed them , was singular , especially against all their orthodox ministers and magistrates , their errours in opinion did draw on such seditious practises , as did well neare overturne both their church and state , ibid. their proud obstinacy against all admonitions , was marvelous , p. in the midst of their profession of eminent piety , the profanenesse of many of them was great , p. notwithstanding of all this we desire from our heart to honour , and imitate all and every degree of truth and piety , which did ever appeare in any new-english christian , p. chap. . the carriage of the independents in holland at rot●rdam and arnheim , p. . independency was no fruitfull tree in holland , p. mr peters the first planter thereof at roterdam , ibid. their ministers , mr. bridge , mr simpson , and mr ward , renounced their english ordination , and as meere private men tooke new ordination from the people , ibid. they did quickly fall into shamefull divisions and subdivisions , p. the people without any just cause deposed their minister , ibid. the schismes at roterdam were more irreconcileable then those at amsterdam , p. anabaptisme is like to spoile that church , p. these of arnheim , admire and praise themselves above all measure . ibid. the easinesse of their banishment and afflictions . p. the new light at arnheim , brok out in a number of strange errors . ib. first , grosse chiliasme . ibid. secondly , the grossest blasphemy of the libertines , that god is the author of the very sinfulnesse of sinne . p. thirdly , the fancy of the euthusiasts , in contemplating god as god abstracted from scripture , from christ , from grace , and from all his attributes . ibid. fourthly , the old popish ceremonies of extreme unction , and the holy kisse of peace . p. fifthly , the discharging of the psalmes , and the apointing of a singing prophet , to chant the songs made by himselfe , in the silence of all others . ibid. sixthly , the mortality of the soule . ibid. seventhly , the conveniency for ministers to preach covered , and celebrate the sacraments uncovered : but for the people to heare uncovered , and to participate the sacraments covered . p. . their publick contentions were shamefull . ibid. cap. . the carriage of the independents at london . p. the worke of the prime independents of new-england , arnheim , and roterdam , these five yeares at london . p. they did hinder with all their power so long as they were able , the calling of the assembly , ibid. when it was called , they retarded its proceedings , p. that the churches of england and ireland lye so long in confusion , neither papists , nor prelates nor malignants have been the cause , ibid. but the independents working according to their principles , p. the great mischiefe of that anarchy wherein they have kept the churches of england , and ireland , for so long a time , ibid. independency is the mother of more heresies and schismes at london , then amsterdam ever knew , ibid. independency at london doth not only bring forth , but nourish and patronize heresies and schismes , contrary to its custome either in new-england or amsterdam , p. how hazardous it may prove to the state of england , p. chap. . an enumeration of the common tenets of the independents . p. why it is hard to set downe the independents positions , p. they have declined to declare their tenets , more then hath ever been the custome of any orthodox divines , ibid. when they shall be pleased to declare themselves to the full , their principle of change will hinder them to assure us that any thing is their setled and firme tenet wherein they will be constant , ibid. the chiefe tenets which hitherto they have given out , and not yet recalled , p. they reject the name of independents unreasonably , and for their owne disadvantage : ibid. when it is laid aside , the more infamous name of brownists and separatists will inevitably fall upon them . ibid. they avow a semi-separation , but a sesqui-separation will bee proven upon them . p. the independents doe separate from all the reformed churches , upon far worse grounds then the brownists were wont , to separate of old , ibid. their acknowledgement of the reformed for true churches , doth not diminish but increase their schisme , ibid. they refuse all church communion , and membership in all the reformed churches , ibid. they preach and pray in them as they would doe among pagans ; only as gifted men to gather materials for their new churches . p. . about the matter of the church , and qualification of members , they are large as strict ▪ as the brownists , admitting none but who convinces the whole congregation of their reall regeneration . p. beside true grace , they require in the person to be admitted , a sutablenesse of spirit with every other member , p. but in this they are laxer then the brownists , that they can take in without scruple , anabaptists , antinomians and others , who both in life and doctrine have evident blots , if so they be zealous and serviceable for their way . ibid. about the forme of the church ( a church-covenant ) they are more punctuall then the brownists . ibid. they take the power of gathering and erecting of churches , both from magistrates and ministers , placing it onely in the hands of a few private christians who are willing to make among themselves a church-covenant . p. this power of erecting themselves into a compleat and perfit church , they give to any seven persons , yea to any three ; neither admitt they more into a church then can altogether in one place commodiously administer the sacraments and discipline . ibid. the independents will have all the standing churches in england except them of the sectaries dissolved , and all their ministers to become meerely private men , and any three persons of their way to be a full church . p. vnto this church of seven persons , they give all and the whole church power , and that independently . ibid. vnto this congregationall church alone , they give the full power of election and ordination , of deposition and excommunication , even of all their officers , and of the finall determination of all ecclesiasticall causes , p. the difference of iohnson and ainsworth , about the power of the people and presbyterie distinct one from the other , is not yet composed among the independents , ibid. the common doctrine of new-england is ainsworths tenet , that the people alone have all the power , and may excommunicate when there is cause , all their officers , ibid. mr. cotton the other yeare did fall much from them and himselfe towards iohnson , teaching that the whole power of authority is onely in the officers , and the people have nothing but the power of liberty to concurre ; that the officers can doe nothing without the people , nor the people any thing but by the officers . p. yet that both officers and people or any of them , have power to separate themselves from all the rest when they finde cause , ibid. the london independants give more power of ecclesiasticall iurisdiction then the brownists , unto woemen , p. some of them permit private men to celebrate the sacraments , ibid ▪ brownists and independents doe perfectly agree i● the point of independency , ibid : if a corrupt or negligent congregation doe not censure the● owne members , all the assemblies in the world may not attempt to censure any of them , though most apparently they did corrupt a whole nation with the grosseth heresies , or most scandalous vices , p. the point of independency is either the root , or the fruit of many errours , ibid. to temper the crudity thereof , they adde to it three moderating positions , but for little purpose , ibid. they grant the being of synods , but not of classicall presbyteries . p. their synods are meerely brownisticall without all iurisdiction , wherein every one of the people may voyce ; also they are meerely elective and only occasionall , ibid. the sentence of non-communion is mr. cottons invention , to supply that defect which themselves make in the ordinances of god , ibid. it puts in the hand of every man a power to sentence all the churches of the world , p. it carries to the highest degree of separation , ibid. their supply of the defects of independency , by the power of the magistrate , was a remedy which they learned from the brownists ; but now they have cast it aside , denying to the magistrate all power in matter● of religion , p. the independents doe advance their fancies , to as high a pitch of glory as the brownists , ibid. they are the brownists schollers in many more things , beside the constitution and government of the church , ibid. they give to the magistrate the celebration of marriage , ibid. mr. milton permits any man to put away his wife upon his meere pleasure without any fault , and without the cognisance of any iudge , p. mr gorting teaches the wife to put away her husband , if he will not follow her in any new church-way which she is pleased to embrace , ibid. they are against all determinations of the circumstances of worship , and therefore all church directories are against their stomacks , ibid. the common names of the dayes of the week , of the months of the yeare , of the yeare of god , of many churches and cities of the land , are as unlawfull to them as to the brownists , ibid. all tythes and set-mayntenance of ministers they cry downe , but a voluntary contribution for the maintenance of all their officers they presse to a high proportion , with the evident prejudice of the poore , p. in their solemne worship , oft times they make one to pray , another to preach , a third to prophesie , a fourth to direct the psalme , and another to blesse the people . ibid. they make it a divine institution without any word of preface , to begin the publick worship with solemn prayer for the king and church , p. after the pastors prayer , the doctor reads and expounds , ibid. in preaching , they will be free to take a text or not , as they find it expedient , ibid. after the sermon , any of the people whom they thinke able , are permitted to prophesie , ibid. all are permitted to propound in the face of the congregation , what questions upon the sermon they thinke meet , ibid. about the psalmes they have divers strange conceits , but the speciall is their new ordinance of a singing prophet , who is place of the psalmes singeth hymmes of his owne making in the midst of the silent congregation , ibid. they grant the lawfulnesse of read prayers in diverse cases , p. they will have none to be baptised but the children of their owne members ; so at one dash they put all england except a very few of their way , into the state of pagans , turning them all out of the christian church , denying to them sacraments , discipline , church-officers and all that they would deny to the pagans of america , ibid. they open a doore to anabaptisme by three farther positions . first , they require in all to be baptised a reall holinesse above a foederall , which in no infant with any certainty can be found , ibid. secondly , they esteeme none for their baptisme and christian education a member of their church , till they have entred themselves in their church covenant , p. thirdly , they call none of their members to any accompt before their presbytery for obstinate rejecting of paedo-baptisme , although the brownists doe excommunicate for that sinne , ibid. they participate with none of the reformed churches in the lords supper , yet they scruple not to communicate with brownists and anabaptists , ibid. their way of celebrating the lords supper , is more dead and comfortlesse then anywhere else , p. they have no catechising , no preparation , nor thanks-giving-sermons ; ordinarily they speake no word of the sacrament in their sermons and prayers , either before or after , ibid. they have onely a little discourse , and short prayer in the consecration of both the elements ; thereafter , in the action nothing but dumb silence , no exhortation , no reading , no psalme , ibid. they require none of their members to come out of their pewes to the table , and they acknowledge no more use of a table then the brownists at amsterdam , which have none at all , ibid. they teach the expediency of covering the head at the lords table . p. they are as much for the popular government as the brownists , ibid. all discipline must be executed in the presence and with the consent of the whole people , and all must passe by the expresse suffrage of every one , p. dissenters not onely loose their right of suffrage for the time , but are subjected to censure if they continue in their dissent , ibid. they are much for private meetings ; for it is in them that they usually frame the members of other mens congregations into their new mould ; but the brownists , and they of new-england having felt the bitter fruits of such meetings , have relinquished if not discarged them , ibid. they flatter the magistrate , and slander the reformed churches without cause , p. some of them are for the abolishing of all magistracy , ibid. all of them are for the casting out , and keeping out of the christian church all princes ; all members of parliament , all magistrates of the counties and burrowes that now are , and that ever have been , and are ever like to be hereafter , except a very few . p. these few magistrates which they would admit , have no security but by the errour or malice of a few , to be quickly cast out of the church without any possibility of remedy , ibid. when they have put all who are not of their mind out of the places of magistracy , yea out of all civill courts ; the greatest magistrates they admitt of , be they kings or parliaments , they subject them all to the free will of the promiscuous multitude , ibid. when magistrates will not follow their new errours , they have been very ready to make insurrections to the great hazard of the whole state , p. many of them deny to the magistrate any power at all in the matters of religion , ibid. their principles doe spoile princes and parliaments of their whole legislative power ; they abolish all humane lawes that are made , and hinder any more to be made , p. the civill lawes which mr cotton permits men to make , binde no man any further then his owne mind is led by the reason of the law to obedience . p. they put the yoke of the iudiciall law of moses on the neck of the magistrate , ibid. they give to their ministers a power to sit in civill courts , and to voyce in the election of the magistrates , and to draw from scripture civill lawes for the government of the state , ibid. they offer to perswade the magistrate contradictory principles according to their owne interest ; in new-england they perswade the magistrate to kill idolaters and hereticks ; even whole cities , men , women and children . p. but here they deny the magistrate all power to lay the lost restraint upon the grossest idolaters , apostates , blasphemers , seducers , or the greatest enemies of religion , ibid. no great appearance of their respect to secular learning and scholes , ibid. independency much more dangerous then brownisme , ibid. chap. . it is unjust scrupulosity to require satisfaction of the true grace of every church member . the independents prime principles , p. it s unjust scrupulosity to require satisfactorie assurance of the true grace of every church-member , p. their tenet about the qualification of members , is the great cause of their separating from all the reformed churches , though they doe dissemble it , p. in this they goe beyond the brownists , p. the true state of the question , is , whether it be necessary to separate from a church wherein we get no satisfaction of the true grace of every member at their first admission ? ibid. for the negative , we reason first from the practice of moses and the prophets , who did never offer to separate for any such reason , p. the causes of a just separation were smaller under the law nor under the gospell , ibid. our second reason is from the example of christ and his apostles , who did not separate for any such causes , p. the third reason , it is impossible to finde true grace in every member of any visible church that ever was , or shall be in the world , p. the fourth . this satisfaction in the true grace of all to be admitted , is builded on foure errours , p. the fifth argument . their tenet is followed with diverse absurdities , p. cottons reasons to the contrary answered , p. the first reason put in forme , ibid. all the parts of it are vitious , ibid his second argument , p. his third argument , p. his fourth argument , p. his fifth , p. his sixth , p. his seventh , ibid. his eigth , p. his ninth ; all his nine or twelve reasons put in one , will be too weak to beare up the weight of his most heavy conclusion . chap. . concerning the right of prophesying . the state of the question . the first authors of this question . ib. the independents difference among themselves hereabout . ib. that none but ministers may ordinarily prophesye , we prove it first , by christs joyning together the power of baptisme and the power of preaching . secondly , these that preach , must be sent to that worke . ib. thirdly , every ordinary preacher labours in the word and doctrine . fourthly , none out of office , have the gift of preaching ; for all that have that gift , are either apostles , evangelists , prophets , pastors , or doctors ; and all these are officers . ib. fifthly , no man out of office might sacrifice . ib. sixthly , all who have from god the gift of preaching , are obliged to lay aside all other occupations , and attend that work alone , seventhly , the apostles appointed none to preach but ●ders . ibid. eigthly , the preaching of men out of office , is a meanes of confusion and errour . ibid. the contrary arguments which mr cotton in his catechism and answer to the questions borrowes from robinson , answered . chap. . whether the power of ecclesiastick iurisdiction belongs to the people , or to the presbytery ? what is meant by ecclesiastick iurisdiction , the state of the question , ibid. for the negative , that the people have no power of iurisdiction , we reason , first , the officers alone are governours , and the people are to be governed , p. secondly , the people have not the keyes of heaven to binde and loose , p. thirdly , the people are not the eyes and eares in christs body , for so all the body should be eyes and eares , ibid. fourthly , the people have not any promise of gifts sufficient for government , ibid. fifthly , the popular government brings in confusion , making the feet above the head , p. sixthly , the people have not the power of ordination , p. seventhly , this power in the people , would disable them in their callings , p. eigthly , this power of the people would bring in morellius democracy and anarchy in the church , ibid. ninthly , this power of the people will draw upon them the power of the word and sacraments , p. mr cottons ten contrary arguments answered , p. chap. . independency is contrary to gods word . god is the authour of the union and dependency of particular churches , p. separation and independency were the anabaptists inventions , ibid. from them morellius and grotius learned the tenet , p. the state of the question cleared , ibid. that single congregations are not independent , is proved , first , from tim. . . p. the second argument from the apostolick churches , which exercised full iurisdiction ; the chiefe whereof , if not all , were presbyteriall and not parochiall , p. our third argument from the subordination of the church of antioch to the synod at ierusalem , acts . p. our fourth argument from the subordination of fewer to more , appointed by christ , matth. . p. our fifth argument from the evill consequents which reason and experience demonstrate to follow independency necessarily and naturally , p. our last argument , independency is contrary to all the discipline that ever was knowne in christendome before the anabaptists , p. the first objection or argument for independency from matth. . p. the second objection is taken from the practise of the corinthians excommunicating the incestuous man , p. the third objection from the example of the seven churches of asia , p. their fourth objection from the practise of the church●s thessalonica and colosse , ibid. the fifth , sixth , seventh , and eigth objection , p. chap. . the thousand yeares of christ his visible raigne upon earth , is against scripture . the originall and progresse of chiliasme , ibid. the mind of the indep●ndent chiliasts , ibid. our first reason against the chiliasts , is , that christ from his ascention to the last iudgement abides in heaven , p. our second reason is built on christs sitting at the right hand of god till the day of iudgement . p. our third reason is grounded on the resurrection of the dead ; the godly and ungodly doe all rise together at the last day , p. our fourth reason is builded on christs kingdome , which is spirituall and not earthly , p. our fifth reason is taken from the nature of the church , p. a sixth reason from the secrecy of the time of christs comming , p. a seventh reason from the heavenly and eternall reward of the martyrs , p. an eigth reason , the restoration of an earthly ierusalem brings backe the abolished figures of the law , p. a ninth , antichrist is not abolisht till the day of iudgement , ibid. the chiliasts first reason is from revel : . . p. our new chi●iasts are inventors of a new heaven and of a new hell , p. twelve other reasons of the chiliasts answered , p. the preface . while the fire of war continues to scorch every one of these miserable dominions , it is the duty of all compassionate countrey-men to contribute the uttermost of their best endeavours for the extinguishing of these unhappie flames , before the remainder of all our churches and states be burnt down to ashes . too much oil already hath dropped from many unhallowed pens ; the times now do passionately call for waters ; and them , the more cold and clear , the better , for quenching the thirst of this devouring beast . vinegar and gall , though in the largest measures , whole rivers of blood will not allay , but augment the heat of a civil war ; the most hopeful peace-makers , from whose intermedling the greatest successe is to be expected , are they whose vessels are filled most plentifully with tears , to be poured out before the throne of god. the fire which this day prevails against us , which burns up not the flesh onely , but the very bones of our kingdoms , is from above : it is the lord who burns against iacob like a flaming fire which devours round about . when the scorching heat of the sun dries up the moisture from the grasse and corn , there is no remedy for the languishing fields , till the vapours ascend from below , and thicken in a cloud ; then incontinent the burning beams are intercepted , the showres descend from above to refresh and renew the withered face of the parched ground . the most seasonable exercise of al who love the peace of ierusalem , is to fill the air with the exhalations of their spirits , with the perfumes arising from the kindled incense of their prayers ; much of these holy vapours will hardly make up one cloud ; wherefore many hearts would daily be breathing up together some store of that heavenly smoke . however for a time all our endeavours may seem to be quite evanished , and when we have gone out to behold much ofter then seven times , there may appear to our eye not so much as the smallest beginning of the least cloud ; yet when the period of gods appointed season is come , when the three yeers and six moneths are past over and gone , there will certainly arise a cloud which , however at first very small , and no broader then a hand , yet will quickly become so big as to fill the heavens with voices , and send down to the wearied earth such plenty of rain as could be wished . but to the end the waters of our prayers may be the more acceptable in the sight of our prince of peace , who alone dispenses at his pleasure to persons and nations that very desirable and much longed-for blessing of quietnesse , we must cleanse our hands of those crimes which have drawn down from the throne of justice that plague of war which so much this day doth vex and well-neer undo us : if once our ways did please the lord , he would quickly make our enemies to be at peace with us . if israel did walk in his ways , their enemies should soon be subdued , and the hand of god so far turned against their adversaries , that they should submit themselves without further opposition . but what peace can be expected , so long as the whoredom and witchcraft , the idolatry and oppression of iezebel , the crying crimes of many in the land , yet unrepented for , doth offend the holy eye of the great dispenser of peace and war ? a reformation after mourning , is the second step to a solid pacification . long may we petition both god and men for peace in vain ; long may we article and treat for that end without any successe , unlesse a reall reformation remove from the sight of god the personal abominations , the state-transgressions , and the church-impieties of our lands . the crimes of persons are grievous , but those of a state are more . the corruption of a member is not so grievous as of the whole body ; and the deformity of the body political , is not so unpleasant to the eye of god as of the church : this is the body , this is the bride of christ ; nothing so much provokes the passion of a loving husband , as the polluting of his spouse . church-grievances were the first and main causes of our present troubles ; the righting of these , will open the door of our first hope of deliverance . whoso will observe either the spring or progresse of our present woes in all the three kingdoms , will finde that the open oppression and secret undermining of the common-wealth , by the craft and tyranny of the malignant faction , did highly provoke the wrath of god , and was a great occasion of all this d●scord which hath broke out among men : yet it is evident , that the p●incipal cause which hath kindled the jealousie of god , and enflamed the spirits of men to shake off and break in pieces those yokes of civil slavery , which ingenuous necks were no more able to bear , was the constuprating of the church , the bringing in upon her by violence , and daily multiplying of errours , superstitions , idolatries , and other spiritual burdens . the method of our cure , if ever it prove solid , must lead our physitians to the fountain of our disease . all treaties for accommodating state-differences , will be lost , if in the first place religion be not provided for , according to the minde of god. if once the temple were builded , and filled with the cloud , the difficulties would be small in making up the breaches in the house of the kingdom , and filling it with peace and prosperity . so long as the temple lies desolate , it is not possible to rear up the walls of the city . it were the wisedom of our great builders , when they finde themselves over-toiled in the fifth yeer of their work , as they desire not to have all their by-past labours vain and fruitlesse , at last in good earnest to set upon the building of the church . interests of private persons and particular factions , laid over with the colour of pretended state-reasons , may procrastinate days without number , setling of religion : yet if we trust either ancient or late experience , these states-men provide best for the welfare of their countrey , who give to the god of heauen , to his worship and house , the first and most high place in all their studies and cares . if we behold either the former , or the later reformers of the state of israel ; if we consider the practice of moses , of david , of hezekiah , of zerubbabel , and others , it is evident the tabernacle , the ark , the temple , did first and most lie at all their hearts . our neighbours and brethren of scotland , when this our disease was upon them , and did presse them well-neer to death and ruine , by this method of physick did in a short time regain their full health and strength , in the which they had great appearence to have continued , without any recidive , unlesse their pious compassion and brotherly attendance upon us in our languishing , had made them partakers of these evils in our company which they had clean escaped , the lamentable neglect for so long a time of the churches disease , makes now the cure , if not desperate , yet much more difficult then once it was : so much the more had every good man need to bring forth the best of his wits , at least of his wishes , for the encouragement and assistance of our great physitians , who now , blessed be god , with all their care , are busied , above all things else , about the recovery of that languishing patient . the voices of some of her more faithful servants crying aloud in the ear of all the world of their mistris extreme danger , of her approach to the doors of death ; this noise hath a wakened and given an alarm to many , that now they run with speed to recover the exparing breath of their dying mother , not without some disdain and ●nd●gnation against them by whose subtil artifices , and more then ordinary industry , they have been kept off all this while from so much as approaching the sick bed of the dangerously-diseased spouse of christ . and now while so many gracious hands are about this noble patient , every one out of their rich shops bringing the choicest medicaments they can fall upon ; i also , out of my poor store , rather from a desire to testifie affection then confidence of any skill in this art , do offer unto her , as one mean of help , a looking-glasse , wherein if she will be pleased but to behold the symptomes of her disease , by this inspection alone , and clear sight of her face in this glasse , without any further trouble whether of potions within , or applications without , i am hopeful , through the blessing of the great master of all lawful arts , she shall be able to shake off the principal of those evils which now do most afflict her . that by the eye alone very noisome diseases may be conveyed to the body , it is the ancient credulity of some . however , dayly experience puts it out of all doubt , that thorow the glasse of the eye the soul may be infected with the desperate diseases of most pestilent passions . but that which here is offered , is much more rare and singular , by looking in a glasse to cure the worst diseases , and to remove from the soul the most dangerous passions by meer contemplation . to leave metaphors , my meaning is , that the greatest hazard of our church this day , comes from the evil of errour . this , if the apostle paul may be trusted , doth eat up the soul no lesse then a gangrene the body . this , if we will believe the apostle peter ▪ is a pernicious and damnable evil which brings on sudden destruction . it is a sin before god no lesse abominable then those which brought fire on sodom , the flood on the first world , the chains of darknesse upon the evil angels . at this instant , when the evil of errour hath spred it self over the whole body of this distracted church , it seems it may prove a remedy not unprofitable to draw together the chief heads of those errours which now are flying abroad ; their faces being cleerly described in one short table in their true lineaments and native colours , will appear so deformed , that many who now are bewitched with them , upon this sight , may be brought out of all further aff●ction towards them . this is the end of my present work , without the least intention , so far as i can understand my own meaning , to create any just offence or reall hurt to any mans person . for , truely , i know not the creature breathing , to whom heartily i do not wish grace , mercy , and peace ; onely the opinions which for a long time , with all licence , are blown by the spirit of errour over all the land , to the dishonour of god and the indangering of many a mans salvation , i wish were set out in their clear and lively shap●s , that they may be seen , as truely they are , without any disguise , by the eyes of all , i am much deceived if their bare and unmasked face shall be found very pleasant to solid and intelligent minds . and because it is a matter full of difficulty to set down the tenents , especially erroneous , of any men , according to their own contentment ; that herein i may do wrong to none , it shall be my care in every thing i conceive material and controverted , to speak nothing without book , but alwayes to bring along my warrant , to alleadge nothing doubtfull of any man , but what himself or some other , whose faith is above just exception , hath published before me to the world . if for all this , my testimony be refused , i can but declare , that knowingly i do not misreport either the words or the sence of any man ; for , i esteem truth so honourable and so beautifull a creature , but falsehood so deformed and base , that no consideration ( i know ) would so far overballance my mind as wittingly , to make me entertain the one , with the prejudice of the other . notwithstanding , if so it should fall out , which is very casuall to men , much my betters , that through inadvertence i should misapprehend , and accordingly misreport any mans judgement , upon the smallest conviction i purpose not onely to retract my misconceptions , but , for further satisfaction , i promise to make my retractation no lesse publike then was my errour . it is not my purpose to take notice of every extravagancy which hath dropped from all the distempered brains of the time ; the profit of such a task would not co●ntervaile the labour : onely i will put down , as it were in one table , so many of th●se irregular conceits , which now are abroad , as may demonstrate to any common eye the undeniable footsteps of the spirit of errour and schism walking among us , and bringing forth in great plenty the births of his darknesse , to the end that such a multitude of satans brats , appearing openly in the arms and bosoms of otherwise ( i suppose ) well-meaning people , the beholders may tremble , and with all carefulnesse avoid the deep deceipt of that angel of light ; and the deceived themselves seeing with their eyes what they hugg and dandle , to carry in the face the cleer lineaments of a mishant parent , for grief and shame that they have been so long nursing-fathers to satans brood , may become the first to dash the brains of these cursed brats against the stones ; or if they needs must obstinately continue fond of that bastard generation , they may enjoy what they love , themselves alone ; all well-advised men standing aloose from the danger of so misordered and irrationall affection . the principall by-paths , wherein the most among us this day do tread , who divert from the high , open , and straight way of the reformed churches , may be reduced to ten generall heads : the brownists , or rigid separatists , are the first who break off at a side : the independents , their children , go on with them for a time ; but , wearied with the widenesse of their parents wandring , professe to come in again towards the rode way , yet not so closely , but still they keep a path of their own . how much neerer these men professe to draw towards us then their fathers , so much the farther their other brethren run from us ; for , the anabaptists go beyond the brownists in wandring ; the antinomians are beyond the anabaptists , and the seekers beyond them all . these five lead aside on our right hand : towards the left there be no fewer crooked lanes ; the prelatical faction ; the down-right papists ; the arminians ; the socinians ; and , who now make as much trouble as any , the erastian-civilians . of all these we will thus far consider , as first , in a brief historick narration , to set down their original and present condition ; secondly , to name their tenents in particular ; thirdly , to refute from scripture some of their most prevalent errours : onely in the entry , one stumbling block would be put by . it is marvailed by many whence these new monsters of sects have arisen : some spare not , from this ground , liberally to blasphem the reformation in hand , and to magnifie the bishops as if they had kept down , and this did set up , the sects which now praedomin . but , these murmurers would do well in their calm and sober times , to remember that none of the named sects are births of one day ; but all of them were bred and born under the wings of no other dame then episcopacy : the tyranny and superstition of this step-mother , was the seed and spawn of brownisme , the great root of the most of our sects ; all which were many yeers ago brought forth , however kept within doors so long as any church-disciplin was on foot : now , indeed , every monster walks in the street without controlement , while all ecclesiastick government is cast asleep ; this too too long inter-reign and meer anarchy hath invited every unclean creature to creep out of its cave , and shew in publike its mishapen face to all , who like to behold . but , if once the government of christ were set up amongst us , as it is in the rest of the reformed churches , we know not what would impede it , by the sword of god alone , without any secular violence , to banish out of the land these spirits of errour : in all meeknesse , humility , and love , by the force of truth convincing and satisfying the minds of the seduced . episcopal courts were never fitted for the reclaiming of minds ; their prisons , their fines , their pillories , their nose-slittings , their ear-cuttings , their check-burnings , did but hold down the flame to break out in season with the greater rage . but , the reformed presbytery doth proceed in a spiritual method evidently fitted for the gaining of hearts ; they go on with the offending party with all respect , and at so much leasure as can be wished , appointing first the fittest pastors and elders in the bounds , to confer and instruct him in private : if this diligence do not prevaile , then they convent him before the consistory of his congregation ; there by admonitions , instructions , r●proofs , and all the means appointed in the gospel , they deal with him in all gentlenesse , from weeks to moneths , from moneths oftentimes to yeers , before they come neer to any censure , and if so it fall out that his insuperable obstinacy ●orce them to draw out the terrible sword , their proceeding here also is so exceeding leasurely , and full of sensible grief and love to the party , of fear and religion towards god , that it is a singular ra●●ty among them to see any heart so hard as not to be mollified , and yeeld before that stroke be given . excommunications are so strange in all the reformed churches , that in a whole province , a man in all his life will scarce●e witnesse to one , and among them who are cut off by that dreadful sword , very few do fall in the states hand to be troubled with any civil inconvenience . by this kinde of government , other reformed churches with ease have kept themselves pure and clean of all our heresies and schisms , not onely scotland , switzerland , and divers parts of germany , but france it self , which to this day was never blessed with any assistance from the secular arm ; by this spiritual and divine adminicle alone , have kept themselves safe from the irruption of all erroneous spirits . i confesse that holland hath been a cage to these unclean birds ; but the reason is evident , the civil state there walking in the corrupt principles of carnal policy , which cannot be blessed with final successe , doth imped the exercise of church-discipline in its most principal parts ; these last fourty yeers that land hath not been permitted to enjoy more general assemblies then one , and how great service that one did towards the purging of the much corrupted church , and calming the greatly disturbed state , all their friends in europe did see and congratulate while their foes did grieve and envy it . it is not prophecy , but a rational prediction bottomed upon reasons and multiplied experience ; let england once be countenanced by her superior powers , to enjoy the just and necessary liberty of consistories for congregations , of presbyteries for counties , of synods for larger shires , and national assemblies for the whole land , as scotland hath long possessed these by the unanimous consent of king and parliament , without the least prejudice to the civil state , but to the evident and confessed benefit thereof ; or as the very protestants in france , by the concession of a popish state , and king , have enjoyed all these four spiritual courts the last fourscore yeers and above ; put these holy and divine instruments in the hand of the church of england , by the blessing of god thereupon , the sore and great evil of so many heresies and schisms , shall quicly be cured , which now not onely troubles the peace and welfare , but hazards the very subsistance both of church and kingdom : without this mean , the state will toile it self in vain about the cure of such spiritual diseases . chap. i. the original and progresse of the brownists . the greatest without comparison , and most admirable work which the hand of god hath brought to passe upon earth in these later ages , is , the reformation of religion from antichristian pollution and tyranny : no other could have been expected from the prince of darknesse , but extreme opposition to this so high a prejudice to his kingdom : incredible is the help which this unclean spirit hath made to antichrist his chief servant , for the upholding of his tottering throne . how many princes and states hath he stirred up to persecute with fire and sword , to the cruellest deaths , the innocent witnesses of the truth ? how many learned divines hath he bewitched with his enchantments , to spend their spirits and time in maintaining by word and writings the grossest abominations of that romish idol ? but the chief artifice whereby this crafty serpent hath most impeded the progresse of the gospel , and kept the triple-crown upon the popes head , is his powerful working in the midst of the children of light : so cunningly hath he insinuated himself into the counsels and actions not onely of the children of this world , but of the sons of sion themselves , that by their hands , more then any other , he hath laid in the way of christs running chariot scandals insuperable , impediments irremovable , by any humane might , till the lord from heaven put them out of the way . the light of the gospel broke out so clear , the heat of zeal , the truely heroick and more then humane wisdom and courage of the first reformers , were so irresistable , that all the power of papal princes , and all the learning of their clergie , were not sufficient obstacles unto the torrent of their spirit ; all these humane bulwarks were overflowed with the flood of the gifts of gods spirit in his servants . the whole kingdoms of england and scotland , denmark and sweden , ireland and navar , were subdued to the scepter of christ ; much of france and pole , the most of germany both above and below , the most of hungary and switze were pulled out of the popes mouth ; italy and spain were entred , and fair beginnings of a gracious day did appear to both . but behold , in the midst of our conquests and triumphs , while all our enemies without were upon the point of fainting and despair , the dragon and his angels got entresse in the heads of our friends , and by their hands drew us back from the pursuing of our foes , who were ready to have given over and submitted ; but remarking our unexpected halt , and turning from them one upon another , they got a time to breathe , and to gather such strength , that ever since they have been the pursuers ; and as long ago they have regained much of their losse , so doubtlesse , had it not been for the invincible strength of our captain , before this day they had totally ruined us . to passe a number of stratagems whereby satan hath diverted protestants from carrying on their work against the popish party , i touch but upon two , a double erroneous principle , whereby he hath infatuated many a thousand of men ( otherwise not irrational nor ungracious ) and brought divers whole churches to such perplexities and confusions , that they lie to this day entangled , unable to disengage themselves of those snares and fetters , that ( as all piety and reason do command ) they may joyn cordially their whole strength with their brethren against the common enemy . in our flight from rome , he got some perswaded to stand too soon , before they had past the territories of the whore , and the line of her communication : others he wrought to the contrary perswasion , he made them run on too long , not onely to the utmost line of errour , but also far beyond all the bounds both of charity and truth : hence our greatest woes , all our discords and mutual wounds have sprung from these two fountains : this is the true original of our diversion from following the enemy , to attend the worst of wars , our civil and domestike combats . by a very evil advice , luther and his followers stuck at the later parts of reformation ; they could not down with the whole body ; and in this their sensible infirmity , they became utterly impatient of all contradiction : that calvin and his brethren should go beyond them to cry down a corporal presence of christ in the bread of the sacrament , to remove images from churches , to put out of the worship a world of idle ceremonies , it was to them a matter of high disdain , and a quarrel , which yet is not dead , but continueth transmitted from the fathers to their children of this our generation . who would not have thought that the rivers and seas of germane blood which this last age have run in a good part out of this spring , might have been more then sufficient to have drowned all such quarrels in a much more implacable nation ? on the other hand , nicholas stock and thomas muncer , with their intemperate zeal , ran themselves so far out of breath , that their followers to this day could never be content to be circumscribed within the bounds of any moderation : they and their posterity the anabaptists , under the colour of extreme promoting even to praecipitation , have been the greatest retarders of the work of reformation ; for beside their own falling off , and separating from all the reformed party ; yea , their cruel invading by fire and sword , without any mercy , all their dissenting neighbours ; their frantick extravagancies became so terrible scandals to the remnant of papists , that no one thing did so much tie their heart to rome , and avert them from entertaining any good thoughts of that religion which to them appeared the root whence so cursed branches had sprung up . both those bitter roots were quickly transplanted from germany to england , where hitherto they have brought forth exceeding ill fruits , albeit not altogether so pernicious and plentiful as in that ground where the hand of the envious man at first did sow them . cranmer , ridley , and some others of the prime confessors and martyrs of england , receiving their first light from wittenberg , and keeping still more correspondence with their acquaintance in higher germany , then with calvin , or any of the french divines , did follow the lutherane principle , howbeit not in the doctrine wherein m●lancthon , bucer , martyr , and the rest of luthers best disciples did at that time leave their master ; yet so much in the discipline , worship and ceremonies , as that their great incogitancy hath cost england very dear to this day ; for this was the chief spring of all the wofull divisions which since have rent our bowels of all the grievous persecutions which have undone many , and vexed more of the godly , and banished far from their countrey some thousands of very precious souls ; and at last , by the craft of some sinons , this became the trojane horse , to carry in its belly , and let down in the midst of our citie and temple , the whole popery of rome , and tyranny of constantinople , in a way of so deep policy and mighty strength , that onely the wisedom of god was able to discover , and when discovered , his arm alone was strong enough to break that snare . whosoever is unwilling to give to god this glory , we must say he is unacquainted with the counsels , and unattentive to the actions both of god and men , which these by-past yeers in this isle , upon a high stage , have been acted , albeit sometimes within , and sometimes without the curtain . the other root of anabaptism hath always been sending up to us ungracious fruits , and at this hour is very instrumental to our woes . when cartwright , hildersham , travers , and many other gracious divines , by the blessing of god upon their great diligence , had undermined and well-neer overthrown the episcopal seas , and all the cathedral ceremonies ; incontinent the generation of the separatists did start up , and put such retardances in the way of that gracious reformation , as yet remain , and , except by the hand of god , will not be gotten removed . it is true , the malignancy of the episcopal party , and emulation of the separatists themselves , would make cartwright and his friends the old unconformists , to be the fathers of that sect ; notwithstanding whoever is acquainted with the times , or will be at the pains , with any consideration , to confer the tenents of both parties , or who will advert the issue and sequele of both ways , cannot but pronounce cartwright and all his followers the unconformists , very free from the unhappinesse of procreating this bastard : that ill-fac'd childe will father it self ; the lineaments of anabaptism are clear and distinct in the face of brownism . the doctrine of the anabaptists , who in great number fled over to england , when for their abomina●le and horrible crimes , by fire , and water , and sword , they were chased out of both the germanies , is so like , and in many things so much the same with the doctrine of the brownists , that the derivation of the one from the other , seems to be very rational . nothing more like then that as morellius did learn from the disciples of muncer his ecclesiastike anarchy , whereby he troubled the church of france , till by beza and sadael , in the general assemblies of that kingdom , he was confounded , and his anabaptistike follies exploded ; so that brown and bolton did learn in the same school , that very ravery of morellius , and many other the like , by the which , about the same time , and ever since , they have pitifully vexed the church of england . that brownism is a native branch of anabaptism , is also evidenced by the frequent transition of many from the one to the other . the dissolution of ice , snow , or any other vapour into water , argues strongly for their original from that element . the ordinary running over of separatists to the anabaptists , demonstrates clearly enough who were their fathers of old , and who their best beloved brethren this day . but passing the kinred and pedigree , let us consider the family it self , and the persons of greatest note that yet have appeared therein . the first separatist i read of , was one bolton , a man by whom his followers can have small credit ; for the finger of gods justice stirring in his conscience , made the sense of his errours so grievous to his soul , that not onely he did publikely at pauls crosse recant them , but thereafter was so dogged with a desperate remorse , that he rested not , till by hanging of himself he had ended his miserable days . the truth of the story is confessed by themselves : that bolton was a minister of an old separate congregation before browne : that he did recant his separation , and hang himself , robinson ▪ the best advocate for that party , doth liberally acknowledge in his justification , p. ( a ) the horrour of this remarkable vengeance did not deter robert browne , first a schoolmaster in southwark , and then a preacher at islington ●eer london , to take up that banner of separation , which ●od ▪ as with a bolt from heaven , had wrung out of the hands of miserable bolton ; albeit that cause did thrive no better with him then with his predecessor . when this rash young man ; for old he could not be in the yeer of god , when he was the prime leader of that sect , having but lately died : when he , i say , had gathered a separate congregation , and drawn up for the defence of his way these writings , whence ever since the best arguments for that schism are drawn ; ( b ) they went over to enjoy their liberty to middleburgh of zeland : but behold the wrath of god following them at the heels ; when there was no disturbance from without , they fell to such jarring among themselves , that soon they broke all to pieces ; the most turned anabaptists , brown himself returned to england , recanted his brownism , received a parsonage at the hand of a bishop : the course of his life , to his deep old age , was so extremely scandalous , that more then ordinary charity is needfull to perswade that ever he was led with a good spirit . i have heard it from reverend ministers , that he was a common beater of his poor old wife , and would not stick to defend publikely this his wicked practice ; also , that he was an open profaner of the sabbath ; and that his injustice , in not paying the small pittance he was indebted to him whom lazinesse in his calling made him to keep for the supply of the cure of his parsonage , did bring him to prison , in the which , for that very cause , he continued till death . when the wickednesse of this man is objected to robinson his scholar , he is so far from denial , that under his hand he testifieth it abundantly . ( c ) the third master of this sect was barrow , the most bitter and clamorous censurer of all the reformed churches of any that yet hath put pen to paper , chuse whom you will of the most despiteful jesuites : let their books which are most besprinkled with gall , be compared with barrows discovery , this to my taste is nothing sweeter then the bitterest of them all : and yet there is small reason why with so great arrogance he should have taken in his hand the censors rod , if all be true of him which his opposites object . however , before he could gather any formed congregation , his invectives against the faith , baptism and laws of england were so excessive , that queen elizabeth , impatient of his contumelies , by the evil advice of the cruel prelates about her , caused him in a morning to be hanged on the tower-hill . the fourth leader of this way was master johnson , who , affraid at barrows execution , got over , with the church he had gathered , to amsterdam , and there for many yeers was pastor to the first setled congregation of brownists we read of . this man , with ainsworth his doctor , sent out to all the reformed churches the confession of their faith , in the yeer . but long it was not till it appeared to the world that no better spirit did reign in that company then in the former societies of this way . for incontinent three shamefull schisms one upon the neck of another , broke out among them : first , many of them turned anabaptists , and were excommunicated . secondly , master johnson fell to so great oddes , first with his brother master george , for small matters , and afterward with his father , that he excommunicated them both , and was cursed by both , when he had rejected peremptorily the mediation of the presbytery of amsterdam for reconciliation . thirdly , the remnant of the company , a little after , rent in two , upon needlesle questions : master ainsworth the doctor with his half , did excommunicate johnson and his half , who were not long behinde , for they also did quickly excommunicate ainsworth and all his followers . hereupon , the war betwixt these two handfuls of people became so sharp , that amsterdam could not keep them both ; for johnson , with his side of the house , got away to emden , where , after his death , that little company , as i suppose , dissolved and vanished . ainsworths's company , after his death , remained long without all officers , very like to have dissolved : yet at last , after much strife , they did chuse one master cann for their pastor , but could not agree , til very lately , upon any other officer , and even yet they live without an eldership , as they did before without a pastor . the most of these things are the confessions of the party , ( d ) the rest are notorious , and will not be denied . the weight and evidence of gods hand against johnson and ainsworth had so far disgraced that sect , that in the opinion of the most no man would ever more look after it : yet two other divines of very good parts , did set under their shoulders to support it for some longer time ; but so , that in the end they did undermine and undo it , though in a contrary way . master smith ( a man as i have heard of right eminent parts ) falling to that side , and writing against the use of the lords prayer , was convinced in a publike meeting by master hildersham , and others , ( for the unconformists alwayes had the one eye no lesse intent upon the separatists , then the other upon episcopacy ) notwithstanding master smith ( for all his conviction , and open profession upon his knees of his full satisfaction ) did relapse , and by his perswasion , moved a great company to follow him out of england to ley in holland . there he persevered not long in concord with his elder brethren of the separation , but quickly accused them all of idolatry in their worship , for looking upon their bibles in the time of preaching , and on their psalters in the time of singing ; ( e ) and of antichristianism in their government , because in their presbytery they joyned to pastors , other two officers , doctours and ruling elders , which to him were humane inventions . neither here did the spirit of errour permit him long to stand : but as in the preface of his book of difference from the old separatists , he professeth a resolution of inconstancy : ( f ) so accordingly he did practise , falling from brownism to anabaptism . and as ordinary brownism , when he was a brownist , did not please his taste , without his own refinings ; so turning anabaptist , the common sorts of that way did not please him ; ( though of the anabaptists there be more kindes then of any other sect this day extant ) yet by none of them all , would his conscience permit him to be rebaptised ; but he needs must rebaptise himself , and so draw on the just infamy of a sebaptist ( g ) . for a recompence of this wantonnesse in erring , behold how the just lord permitted satan to lead him , yet one step further : it is not onely a common report , but i have heard it from the gravest and most approved divines of the kingdom , that upon his death-bed he became a preacher of his own perfect righteousnesse , if not a professed arrian . an example full of horrour which god hath set forth , if men will be so wise as to be disciplined in the persons of others , to bridle the petulant wits of this age , who make it , if not their pastime , yet their exercise and glory to impugn , by their sophisms , the setled tenents and practices of all christians before them . master smiths progresse and end ought to circumscribe their luxuriant spirits within the circle of some moderation , lest all the glory of their new inventions be crown'd with some shameful conclusion . when the infamous practices of master smith are objected to his party , they have no leaf of excuse wherwith to cover them . ( h ) the other supporter of languishing brownisme , in its dying dayes , was master robinson , the most learned , polished , and modest spirit that ever that sect enjoyed : it had been truely a marvel if such a man had gone on to the end a rigid separatist . this man having gone over from england to leyden , with a separate congregation , did write for a time very handsome apologies and justifications of that evil way ; but , doctor ames and master parker compassionating the man , and pitying that so excellent parts should be so ill employed , laboured him so by conferences and letters , that there was great appearance , if his days had continued , he might have proved a happie instrument for the extinguishing and total abolition of that schism : but god in his wisedom intending some farther use of that great evil , was pleased to take him away in the beginning of his good work. he came back indeed the one half of the way ; he ruined the rigid separation , and was the author of a semi-separatism , printing in his later times against his former books , the lawfulnesse of communicating with the church of england in the word and prayer , albeit not in the sacraments and discipline : this was a fair bridge , at least a fair arch of a bridge for union ; but the man being removed by death before he could perfect what he had begun , his new doctrine , though it was destructive to his old sect , yet it became an occasion of a new one not very good . it was the womb and seed of that lamentable independency which in old and new-england hath been the fountain of many evils already , though no more should ensue , as anon shall be declared : onely here we observe , that the last two best-gifted leaders of the brownists , have been the reall overthrowers of that way : for ever since the time of their conduct , these of england whose humour carried them out of the bosome of their mother-church , have turned either to smiths anabaptism , or to robinsons semi-separating independency . these kindes are multiplied exceedingly ; but for the old brownists , their number either at london or amsterdam , is but very small ; and their way is become contemptible not onely to all the rest of the world , but to their own children also ; even they begin to heap coles of contumelies upon their parents heads , as may be seen in the elogies which both master cotton ( i ) and the five apologists are pleased to give them in print : ( k ) yea , so much are these children ashamed of their fathers , that they usually take it for a contumely to be called after their name . no independent will take it well at any mans hand , to be called a brownist either in whole , or in the smallest part . the testimonies . ( a ) robinsons justification , p. . it is true that bolton was ( though not the first in this way ) an elder of a separate church in the beginning of queen elizabeths days ; and falling away from his holy profession , recanted the same at pauls crosse , and afterwards hanged himself , as judas did . ( b ) giffard against the donatists , about the beginning . whosoever shall read brown his books , and peruse all his scholars writings , shall see that they have no sharp arrow but which is drawn out of his quiver . ( c ) robinsons justif . p. . now touching brown , it is true , as he forsook the lord , so the lord forsook him , else he had never so returned back into egypt , as he did : and for the wicked things which master b. affirmeth he did in this way , it may well be as he saith ; and the more wicked things he committed in this course , the lesse like he was to continue long in it . ( d ) johnsons enquiry , p. . about thirteen yeers since , this church , through persecution in england , was driven to come into these countreys : a while after , divers of them fell into the heresies of the anabaptists ; and so persisting , were excommunicated by the rest : then a while after , many others , yea too many , though not the half , fell into a schism from the rest ; and so many as continued therein , were cast out . also , robinsons justification , p. . true it is , that george johnson , together with his father , taking his part , were excommunicated by the church for contention arising at the first upon no great occasion ; whereupon many bitter and reproachfull terms were uttered both in word and writing . it is to us a just cause of humiliation all the days of our lives , that we have given , and do give , by our differences , such advantages . ( e ) smiths differences , p. . the reading out of a book , is no part of spiritual worship , but the invention of the man of sin. books and writings are in the nature of pictures or images , and therefore in the nature of ceremonies , and so by consequent the reading of a book is ceremonial : the holy scriptures are not to be retained as helps before the eyes in the time of spiritual worship : it is unlawful to have the book before the eyes in singing of psalms . the presbytery of the church is uniform : the treeformed presbytery consisting of three kindes , pastors , teachers , and elders , is not gods ordinance , but antichristian , and the image of the beast . ( f ) bernards plain evidences , p. . smith in his epistle before his differences , because he is found so unconstant , to wipe away the shame thereof , and to cut off offence for afterward ; he without shame professeth to be unconstant , and desireth that ever his last writing should be taken as his present judgement . ( g ) ibid. he hath founded a new church ; he hath , if ye will believe him , recovered the true baptism , and the true matter and form of a true church , which now onely is to be found pure among a company of sebaptists . master smith will hold ever this word se to himself , for going into brownism ; he was a separatist , he held differing opinions from them ; and now that he is in anabaptism , he is a sebaptist , he wholly goeth not with that heretical sect. ( h ) robinsons justif . p. . master smith his instability , and wantonnesse of wit , is his sin , and our crosse . ( i ) vide caput tertium o. ( k ) ibidem . chap. ii. the doctrine of the brownists . the peculiar tenents of the brownists wherein they differ from other protestants , are many : those that occur to my minde from some slight and cursory reading of some of their books , shall briefly and plainly be set down ; but with this premonition , that every thing mentioned , be not taken for an article of brownism ; for it is needful at some times to interlace tenents which are common to them with others , for the clearing of those which they have peculiar . their differences run most upon the constitution and government of the church : they have also divers singularities about the circumstances and parts of the service of god ; also concerning the magistrate , and schools , and divers other things . without affectation , or curious search of method , we shall propound matters as they come to hand . concerning the constitution of the church , consider their judgement , first , what they think of others , then what of themselves . all other churches they condemn , so far , as to professe and practise a separation from them . the edge of their arguments , is usually directed against the church of england alone ; but when their doctrine or practise is looked upon a little more neer , it appears they shoot their bolts at all other churches in the world which refuse their way . for the church of england , they say it ought not to be called a church ; or at best , that it is a false and antichristian church , out of the which every one ( though not persecuted ) must flee , as they would avoid damnation . ( a ) sometimes , in their calm mood , they will give better words , and acknowledge it to be a true church , that the doctrine and sacraments thereof are true , that many thousands of its members are gracious and elect people . ( b ) but their ordinary language is of another strain , to wit , that the church of england is a meer harlot , divorced from christ , ( c ) that the worship thereof is grosse idolatry , and the service of the devil , ( d ) that all the members thereof are unclean beasts , and the limbs of antichrist , ( e ) that her best preachers that preach most for reformation , are but pharisees and deceivers , ( f ) that the faith , grace and comfort which by their ministery they seem to bring to the hearts of the hearers , is but meer delusion , ( g ) that their sacraments are seals , not of grace , but of the wrath of god , ( h ) that all communion with her , even in the word and prayer , is to be forsaken . ( i ) the unconformists did always zealously plead against the corruptions of that church , but never against the truth of her being , or the comfort of her communion : when by the force of persecution they were driven out , then they did flee : of their own accord they did never separate , but were ever most glad to live and die in her bosome , willing to partake of her worship and sacraments , whenever they were permitted to dissent in doctrine , and to abstain in practice , from those things which they conceived to be corruptions . ( k ) concerning other reformed churches , though free both of liturgies and bishops , and many other of the english stumbling-blocks , notwithstanding all their reformation , yet they pronounce their worship to be idolatrous , ( l ) their government tyrannous and antichristian , ( m ) yea , their very constitution both in matter and form to be so vitious , ( n ) that with a good conscience they cannot communicate with any of them , ( o ) that the reformed presbyteries and synods are no better then the english episcopacy ; ( p ) yea , to episcopacy they are so favourable , that they professe their willingnesse to acknowledge all their civil power , and much of their ecclesiastical jurisdiction ; ( q . ) that the presbyterian divines have ever been as evil as episcopal ; ( q . ) that the vitious constitution and government of the most reformed churches in europe , hath flowed from the ignorance and obstinacy of unhappie calvin . ( r . ) we must not be deceived with their pleasant words , when they make fair professions of their hearty agreement in so many things with the other reformed churches , and of their willingnesse to communicate with them both in word and sacraments . ( r . ) these flatteries are contradictory both to their doctrine and practice ; for when they had left england , they were so far from joyning with any of the reformed , that they ever erected new churches after their own way , and made it an open and avowed cause of excommunication for any of their members to communicate with the churches of holland , among whom they did live ; ( r ) also the crimes of the church of holland , which they cry out upon , are such which none of the reformed divines do condemn . ( s ) on the other side , the nonconformists whom the episcopal persecution did banish out of england , were ever well content without erecting of a new church , to joyn themselves as members to any of the forrain churches , scottish , dutch , or french , according as they understood their language , or had occasion of abode among them . thus they do judge of others . as for the form of that tabernacle which they professe to build for themselves , thus we may conceive it : the matter or members of that church , they avow to be saints ; but the members of other churches , they pronounce them for the most part to be wicked and flagitious . ( t ) the nonconformists with all the reformed , are willing to admit of no others to the lords table but these who are saints by calling , in whom they require three qualifications : first , that they have a good measure of knowledge , and professe to beleeve the truth . secondly , that in their life and conversation , they be without scandal . thirdly , that they be submissive to the discipline of the church : but the brownists presse a fourth qualification ; were a mans profession never so fair , and his knowledge never so great : in all parts of doctrine , let him be most orthodox , and in his conversation most harmlesse , and inoffensive ; were he never so willing to joyn in all the ordinances of god , and to be governed according to the strictest discipline of christ ; notwithstanding all this , they count him not qualified to be a church member , except he declare publikely in the face of the congregation , such clear and certain signes of his real sanctification , and true regeneration , as gives full satisfaction , not onely to the minister and elders , and many of the people , but to all and every one , or at least the major part of the church . ( v ) if any prophane person should be admitted , he should quickly so far pollute the whole church , that every member thereof must needs become partaker of his sins ; ( x ) and if upon admonition they did not excommunicate him , they themselves ought to be separated from , as an infected and leprous society . ( y ) they tell us yet more , that not onely the profanenesse of one person doth pollute the whole church , but any one sin or errour of any one member , though godly and regenerate , if after admonition he continue therein , and be not excommunicate , doth so defile the whole , that it must be separated from . ( z ) to distinguish here betwixt sins greater and lesser , to make some errours fundamental , and some preter-fundamental , it is to them a following of the papists in their absurd distinction of mortal and venial sins ; the least errour joyned with obstinacie , to them is an heresie , and a just cause of separation . ( aa ) they acknowledge it is the fancy of the anabaptists to separate for every fault and errour ; but that which alone displeaseth them in this fancy , is a fault whereof the anabaptists seem not to be guilty , the not advertising of the church of the fault and errour of the member they complain of before they separate ; if this neglect be helped , the rest of the fancy they seem to approve . ( bb ) thus much for the matter of their church ; the form of it , not accidental , but essential and constitutive , they place in an explicite covenant , ( cc ) wherein , all and every one of the members , by a voluntary association , without the authority of either magistrate , or minister , do binde themselves under a solemn oath to walk in the wayes of the gospel . ( dd. ) when two or three , or some very few , ( for they require no more then seven to a full and perfect congregation ; ( ee ) and they professe it unlawful to admit any more then can commodiously at one time in one place , partake of all the ordinances . ) ( ff ) if when these few , i say , have departed not onely from the english , and the rest of the reformed , but also from every church of their own way , wherein they finde the least errour or sin of any of the members , whereof they have complained , not to be amended , either by the repentance or the excommunication of the party : ( gg ) the association of these men , thus separate into a covenant , is the essential form of their church . but the association must be so voluntary and free , as not to wait for the countenance of any authority , either ecclesiastick , or civil ; to supplicate the magistrate for his favour in the gathering of a new church , is to them a sin ; ( hh ) and to erect a church by the help of any minister , to them is a contradiction : for the church newly erected , makes the minister ; but no minister can gather or erect a church . ( ii ) if a person , who elsewhere hath been a minister , become the author or instrument of erecting a church , he is not then a minister , but a meer private man ▪ till the church so erected by a new call and ordination by themselves , doth make him again a minister . unto their church so constituted in matter and form , were their number never so small , before it attain to any officer , either pastor , or doctor , or elder , they ascribe great power and fair priviledges ; not onely the power of doctrine , but of ordination , and all jurisdiction ; even a full right to all the keys of the kingdom of heaven , and every priviledge of any visible church , how perfect so ever . ( kk ) this their new church , they will have to elect the pastor , and all other officers ; if a pastor should come to them by the presentation of a patron , or nomination of a presbytery , however they did not oppose , yea , did consent to his admission , yet if they were not the electors , and first nominators , the man should be an intruder and a woolf , whom they might not lawfully hear . ( ll ) the pastor being chosen , and that out of their own number , usually some artificer , or tradesman ( for they do not require letters in their pastors : ) and so far in their elections , they tie themselves to their own members , that if any other were found meet and willing to be an officer among them , he must first enter into their covenant , and become a member before he were capable of any office. ( mm ) when i say they have elected him a pastor , the same , and no other then who did elect , do give him ordination ; for the right and exercise of ordination , ( nn ) they ascribe to the people , that is , according to ainsworth , and others , ( if we beleeve johnson ) every member of the flock , even women and children . ( oo ) but according to johnsons minde , onely the men of the flock , excluding women and children ; yet including the meanest and most ignorant of all the men who are communicants : to these they ascribe the power of ordination , who in the exercise of it , appoint some of their number , whom they think fittest to ordain the pastor , that is , to examine him in all the needful qualifications of his life and doctrine , to exhort him to all the parts of his duty , publikely to pray for him , and at last to lay hands upon his head . ( pp ) the pastor so elected and ordained , becomes a servant , not onely of christ , but of that flock from whom he hath ( as they speak ) originally ( qq ) all his power to preach , or celebrate the sacraments , or to do any other part of his office : wherein if he fail , any one of the people hath power to admonish and reprove him publikely ; ( rr ) and the greater part of the people in any congregation agreeing ( suppose they were four , when the whole makes seven ) have full power to depose and excommunicate him ( ss ) ; much more have they power to cognosce , and definitively to determine upon the nature of heresie , superstition , errour , or of any crime which procures these censures . when the major part of the people have cast out the minister , and all the officers , and so many of the flock as adhere to them , no part of their power by this ejection is lost , still they keep their full right to all the ordinances of christ ; any of them who is thought able , may prophecy , that is , publikely expound the word , and apply it for instruction , reproof , comfort , and all other uses : ( tt ) any of them may pray in the congregation , any may ordain , any may excommunicate ; they give expressely a full power to every one of admonition and rebu●e , yea , of censuring so far the whole , that if they refuse to follow the just admonition of any one , he ought to denounce the judgements of god publikely against them all , and separate from them as from an obstinate and cursed society . ( vv ) the onely question remains about the sacraments ; all of them agree , that the smallest and weakest congregation may choose and ordain one of their own number when ever they will , to be pastor , and so to celebrate the sacraments to the rest ; ( xx ) ●ut the most of them say , that unlesse they have appointed a pastor for that end , none of the rest can lawfully celebrate a sacrament : ( yy ) yet others of them make a quaere hereof ; ( zz ) for say they , since the church without officers hath the free exercise of all other power , in preaching , prayer , and censures ; why may not the like be said of the sacraments ? these men after their scrupling for some time , as their custome is , come up at last to conclude and practise celebrating sacraments without any pastorall charge , of baptism it is certain ; for master smith professing himself a meer private man , having renounced his former ministry and baptism also , took upon him to baptise himself ; and who lawfully may celebrate the one sacrament , may as lawfully celebrate the other . when all the power is ascribed by them to their church , yet peremptorily they deny to it the power to solemnize marriage ; ( aaa ) for marriage to them is not onely a contract meerly civil , but such a one as concerns the church nothing at all ; so they remit it wholly to the magistrate , or else to the parents , ( bbb ) to be solemnized in private families ; and as their marriage is private , so likewise must their divorces , without the cognizance either of magistrate or minister . ( ccc ) they were wont to teach that adultery , did so far annul marriage , that it was a sin , and the cause of excommunication for the innocent party to forgive , and cohabit any longer with the party nocent ; albeit , they professe their retractation hereof , making it now fr●e for the innocent party , either to depart or abide with the nocent , as they finde it expedient , and all this without any legal processe . ( ddd ) the power which they grant to their smallest congregations , is very great ; but they adde one circumstance to it that makes it high above measure ; all the power of their smallest congregations must be independent and soveraign , that is , absolutely supreme upon earth , depending immediately upon christ ; and none else ; for they deny all ecclesiastick authority above a particular congregation , which goes beyond a meer advice and councell . ( eee ) so that if the most part of a people in a congregation should turn heretical , and extremely wicked , excommunicating their pastor , their doctor , their elders , and whole consistory , onely for truth and righteousnesse : for all this , no persons on earth , not an oecumenick synod shall have any more power to controle them , then the meanest of their own servants ; for to the meanest servant they give power to admonish , reprove , rebuke , and to separate from the whole church , when it is obstinate in any evil , and more power then this they will not give to the greatest , and best synods , over a congregation of a very few , sometimes very ignorant and weak persons . ( fff ) they do not deny that presbyteries and synods are the ordinances of god , which have many profitable uses ; ( g g g ) but the synods they allow of , must have these conditions . first , they will have them onely occasional and elective , not set or ordinary , but as any church shall have need to call together whom they think meet for their help and advice , in what matters they think good to propound . ( h h h ) secondly , the members of their synod must not be onely ministers and elders , and men cloathed with commissions ; but all who please to come without exclusion of any . ( iii ) thirdly , all who come , as well people as officers , must have free liberty , both of debate and voting decisively . ( kkk ) fourthly , nothing must go by number , or pluralitie of voices . ( lll ) fifthly , in their synods there must be no moderator , no prolocutor for the ordering of the action . ( mmm ) sixthly , they will not be content that any synod should have the least power of jurisdiction to censure the wickedest heretike who is infecting all about him far and neer with the vilest errors . ( nnn ) in these their fancies they please themselves so well , that they avow the very crown , scepter , and throne of christs kingdom to consist in them : ( ooo ) that the churches so constituted and governed , are nothing lesse then the new jerusalem coming down from heaven : ( ppp ) that all the reformed churches for their aberration from this constitution and government , are either no churches at all , or but babylonish and adulterous churches , or at best , but corrupt societies from which a separation is necessary . in things concerning the worship , they have crotchets not a few upon the maxime that all monuments of idolatry must be abolished precisely , according to the laws of the old testament ; they will have all churches that were builded in the time of popery , made level with the ground , ( qqq ) their bells to be broken , yea , all bells to be unlawfull , being humane and popish inventions . ( rrr ) not so much as a church-yard must be kept up for burial , but all must bury in the fields . ( sss ) what ever of old was dedicated to the maintenance of the worship of god , they will have it all rejected as an instrument of idolatry : but herein they seem to deal scarce fairly with the law ; for howsoever they presse the casting down of the churches , the breaking of the bells , the abolishing of the idols , and all that belonged thereunto ; ( ttt ) yet they do leave to the magistrate , or to any , who in this are serviceable to their humour , the rich rewards of the gold , silver , brasse , vestments , timber , stone , lands and rents , which belonged to these churches , to be possessed by them with a very good conscience , and without the least scruple of any sacriledge . ( vvv ) however they do maintain , that all the officers of their church , not onely pastors , and doctors , but every one of their other four sorts of ministers , elders , deacons , helpers , widows , ( xxx ) ought in conscience , and by divine right to be ( by the congregations , which they serve ) ( yyy ) provided for ; yet they are so far from permitting any of them to enjoy the least portion of the old rents of the church , that they avow parsonages and viccarages , glebes , and manses , to be altogether unlawfull . ( zzz ) that for a minister to crave any tithes , or for any man for all that either laws or magistrates can command , to pay any tithes , is a sin which abolishes from christ . ( aaaa ) they adde further , that all set-maintenance to church officers , is against the gospel ; that it is the will of christ , that ministers now be provided for in that same way as himself and his apostles were of old , onely by the voluntary contributions and meer alms of the people : they d●ive on this point so far , as to come up in termes to the anabaptist● tenent of making all goods common . ( bbbb ) their hatred of idolatry is so great , that they professe it unlawfull , so much as to mention in any civil way , the names of places or times that carry any footstep of any ancient idoll , saint andrew , saint john , peter or pauls church : munday , tuesday , wednesday , sunday ; january , february , march ; those and the like words to them are profane and unlawful ( cccc ) : the very yeer of god displeaseth them ; they will have it called , the yeer of the saints last patience ( dddd ) . they will have no circumstance in the worship determined , not so much as by custom , much lesse by law ; there must be no limitation of preaching either to time or place . pulpits they scorn , they call them priviledged tubs ( eeee ) . they laugh at preaching to an hour-glasse ( ffff ) . to preach in a gown , is to them little better then a surplice , or a fryars coul. that penitents in their publike confession should stand in a peculiar place , or in any habit diverse from ordinary , is to them a matter of mockery ( gggg ) . as for the parts of the worship , in all of them they have some one singularity or other : they make all set-prayer , the very lords prayer it self used prayer-wise , not onely to be inconvenient and unlawful , but to be idolatry , and the worship of the devil hhhh ; howbeit master robinson here corrects his companions , and professeth that set-prayer , in some cases , is very lawful worship iiii. the singing of psalms in meeter , not being formal scripture , but a paraphrase , to them is unlawful ( kkkk ) ; much more the singing of any other songs in the church , which are not expresse scripture . they permit to sing psalms in prose , not as an act of immediate praise llll ; for set-praise would be as idolatrous as set-prayer ; but as a matter of instruction and comfort , whereby god is glorified , as by all other actions , whether natural , moral , or spiritual , which are done in faith . but herein master smith is wiser then his fellows , telling us , that all songs in the church out of a book , whether in verse or prose , are idolatry ( mmmm ) ; yet he admits of singing such psalms as the spirit dictates to any person immediately without book ( nnnn ) . it seems the brownists at amsterdam have recanted their error in this point ; for all of them sing now in strange tunes the psalms in meeter , of ainsworths exceeding harsh paraphrase . preaching of the word , to them is no pastoral act , but is common , not onely to all the officers , but to every gifted brother of the flock ( oooo ) . the word sacrament to them is traditional , corrupt , and not to be used ( pppp ) . the baptism of the english church they make to be vain , and nul , the seal of no grace , but onely of wrath and condemnation ( qqqq ) ; yet they will not have it repeated . they teach , that the lords supper should be celebrated every lords day ( rrrr ) : so preparation-sermons before , and sermons for thanksgiving after the lords table , to them are needlesse . they will have all to sit at the lords table with their hats on : uncovering of the head in the act of receiving , to them is idolatry ( ssss ) . in this the present practice at amsterdam contradicts their doctrine ; for however they sit covered in time of all the reading and discourse ; yet when it comes to the participation of the elements , every man , during the time of his eating and drinking , sits uncovered . they count it lawful to joyn with the lords table love-feasts ( tttt ) . they reject all catechisms , being set , and so unlawful forms of instruction ( vvvv ) . after a member is once received amongst them , they enquire no more for his knowledge , having once gotten satisfaction , at his admission to membership , of his sufficient knowledge . the apostles creed they detest , as an old patchery of evil stuff ( xxxx ) : christs descent into hell , they count a blasphemous article ( yyyy ) . they reject all publike reading of the word which is not backed with present exposition ( zzzz ) : they do not any way scruple the office of readers and expounders ; for they give full liberty of publike and ordinary preaching to any gifted man of the flock , though he have no office. when the exercise of reading , expounding , singing of psalms , praying and preaching by the pastor , is ended , they will have one , two , three , or four , to prophesie in order aaaaa ; and all to have a free liberty of continuing so long as they think meet . after all this is done , they have yet another exercise , wherein , by way of conference , questioning and dispu●ation , every one of the congregation may propound publikely , and presse their scruples , doubts and objections against any thing which that day they have heard bbbbb . and , as if all these exercises were not enough to tire out a spirit of iron , the most of them being repeated again in the afternoon , for a conclusion of all , they bring in the laborious and long work of their discipline , for which the whole flock must stay till they have heard , debated and discerned every cause that concerns either the officers , or any of the people , whether in doctrine or manners ccccc . concerning the magistrate , master brown teacheth , that he hath no right to meddle at all with any matter of religion , but to permit the liberty and free choice of religion to the conscience of every one of his subjects ddddd . the most of browns followers do leave in this their master , making it a great part of the christian magistrates office to suppresse , within their own bounds , idolatry and false doctrine eeeee ; to compel all their subjects , if they will not be perswaded , to hear the word preached , albeit no way to enter themselves members of any church , or to hinder any to enter in any church they will , or to erect new churches of their own framing fffff . further , if the magistrate be a member of any church , they will have him , were he the king himself , to be so far subject to their church-censures , that a little small congregation shall have power , upon his obstinacy in any sin or errour , to excommunicate him , and that without all delay , without any respect to his crown , more then if he were the poorest servant of the whole flock ggggg ; and , which is worst of all , the prince his excommunication by the hands of so small & weak a company , must be without all possible relief ; for he hath no liberty of appeal to any upon earth hhhhh ; an oecumenike councel may not assay to loose the knot of that censure which the hand of the congregation hath tied . but their great tenent about the magistracie , is this , that no prince nor state on the earth hath any legislative power ; that neither king nor parliament can make any law in any thing that concerns either church or state ; that god alone is the law-giver ; that the greatest magistrate hath no other power , but to execute the laws of god set down in scripture iiiii ; that the judicial law of moses bindes at this day all the nations of the world , as well as ever it did the jews kkkkk : they tell us that whatever god in scripture hath left free , it may not be bound by any humane law , whether civil or ecclesiastike ; and what god hath bound by any law in scripture , they will not have it loosed by the hand of any man. they lay it upon the magistrate to punish by death , without any dispensation , every adulterer , every blasphemer , every sabbath-breaker , and above all , every idolater lllll. and here is the great danger , that by idolaters they will have understood , not onely pagans and papists , but the far greatest part of all protestants , all absolutely who are not of their way ; for , the using of a set prayer , were it the lords own prayer , to them is clear idolatry mmmmm . for all this , they will not permit any magistrate to hang any th●ef at all mmmmm . against the learning of the times , they make large invectives ; the universities , and all the colledges in them , they will have razed to the ground ; they professe them to be worse then the monasteries that justly were abolished nnnnn : whatever arts and sciences are taught in the christian schools , they count them idle and vain : grammar , rhetorick , logick , philosophy , are all unlawful arts ooooo . the heathen writers which are used in any faculty , such as aristotle , plato , cicero , and the like , they would have them all burnt , as the authors of unlawful arts. they reject all school-degrees , such as batchelors , masters of art , doctors of any faculty ppppp . they wil have no students of divinity qqqqq . they tell us that youths mis-spend their time , and exceedingly abuse themselves , by studying of those things which usually are recommended unto them as preparations for the ministery , whether common places , commentaries upon scripture , or protestant writers of controversies ; all such books they will have laid aside rrrrr ; yea , it is their advice to reject all books but the bible alone sssss . as for divinity-disputations , they make large invectives against them , as paganish and very sinful exercises ttttt ; notwithstanding all this , they proclaim themselves great patrons of all true learning vvvvv ; albeit , as yet they have not been pleased to let the world know what kinde of letters and books they will be pleased with , when all that hitherto have been known , are laid aside by their perswasion . the testimonies . a. barrows discovery , p. . in this estate , what communion is to be held with the church of england ? what fellowship may the children of god have with such rebels and apostates ? can the name of a church , without blasphemy unto christ , be given unto them in these sins ? they then not being under christs , protection , nor in the state of grace , while they continue in their sin , i have often wondred how any man of sound judgement could give them the name of a church . ibidem , in the preface . let the rest no longer tempt god , or be held under the dint of this dreadful milstone , by any perswasion ; but let them save their souls out of this accursed false church , and joyn themselves to the faithful servants of christ with all speed . the confession , art. . these assemblies standing thus in confusion , cannot be said truely to have christ their king , priest and prophet , neither in this estate can be esteemed the true , visible , orderly , constitute church of christ , whereof the faithful may become or stand members , or have any spiritual communion with them in their spiritual worship and administrations : therefore are all that would be saved bound by gods commandment with speed to come forth out of this antichristian estate , leaving the suppression of it to the magistrate , to whom it belongs . a light for the ignorant , p. , . this whorish citie hath a body of false prophets ; whosoever heareth these , or any of these , breaks the first commandment ; for in hearing and obeying these , they hear and obey the dragon , beast and whore that sent them , and gave them their authority and office ; they use some divine truths , to help to set a glosse on their inventions ; but both divine and invented are consecrated and dedicated by the beast , and administred by his office. ( b ) robinsons apologie , pag. . convenit nobis quatenus reformatis ecclesiis belgicis & aliis cum ecclesia anglicana in articulis fidei hujus ecclesiae nomine scriptis ; idem in his book of the lawfulnesse of the hearing of the ministers of the church of england . barrows refutation of giffard , p. . we never doubted but the foundation of god stood firm , the lord having many thousands of his elect among you known to himself . idem , in his discovery , p. . the errours and fauls of baptism being purged by repentance , it pleases god , in pardoning the faults , to reserve , and not to have repeated the outward action . their apologie , p. . we gladly embrace the common faith professed in this land , as most holy and sound : we have a reverend estimation of sundry , and good hope of many hundred thousands in the land. their confession , p. . we testifie by these presents to all men , that we have not forsaken any one point of the true , ancient , apostolike faith professed in our land , but hold the same grounds of christian religion with them . ( c ) barrows discovery , p. there is no cause to doubt but any of gods servants may avoid that congregation which rejecteth gods word presumptuously , as a wicked assembly , and an adulterous church ▪ ibid. p. . i deny these assemblies to be true churches of christ , seeing they have broken the covenant , and cast off the yoke of christ . ( d ) barrows refutation , p . we further conclude from the second commandment , that whatsoever worship is devised by man , and whatsoever device of man is put in the worship of god , it is idolatry : but a great part , if not the whole worship of god in your church , is devised by man. if god be not worshipped with this kinde of worship : then , to speak as the prophets and apostles do , the devil is worshipped thereby . ( e ) apologie , p. . none can submit unto , or have any spiritual communion with the hierarchie aforesaid , but they worship the beast and his image , and so make themselves subject to the wrath of god. barrows discovery , p. . here would not be forgotten the sweet psalmodical harmony of the vultures , cranes , owls , geese ; of the leopards , boars , wolves , dogs , swine , foxes , goats . pordon me ; for thus the holy ghost termeth the profane confused multitudes in false churches . ( f ) barrows discovery , p. . disguised hypocrites , ravening wolves , that come to us in sheeps clothing , under the glorious titles of pastors and teachers , ministers of the gospel , men of great learning , holy life , sighers for reformation ; these pharisees , these sectaries are they that mislead the people in their crooked paths of death . ibid. p . no middle course can here be taken ; we must either make the tree good or evil ; these ministers of the church of england are true or false : if false , then deliver they no true sacraments ; then is all their administration , sacraments and sermons accursed , how holy soever or neer the truth in outward shew ; then are they the ministers of satan , of antichrist , sent by god in his wrath to deceive and destroy such as are ordained to death ; then ought not the prince to repair to their sermons for comfort ; then is all the comfort she taketh there , but delusion , even the deceit of satan ; then are they seducers who perswade her to go to them , as whereby they draw her to the wrath of god , and imminent danger and inevitable destruction , except she forsake them . ( g ) vide f. also barrows discovery , p. . the comfort received from their preaching , their whole ministery being accursed , is a fearful signe of the effectual working of their delusions : from their ministery in this estate , no comfort is to be looked for , but assured destruction ; they being of god in his wrath sent to deceive the children of death , the reprobates . ( h ) barrows discovery , p. . i deny their sacraments to be the ordinances of god , seeing to them , in this estate , belong not the sacraments and ministery of christ , but the curse and judgement of god. ibid. p. . such sacraments can no ways be called the ordinances of christ , but rather sure seals of his wrath to as many as profane his holy ordinances , and joyn together in that ungodly and accursed action , until they repent . ( i ) vide f. also barrows dis . p. . there can be no greater allowance of joyning to them , then to make them our mouth or ministers unto god , or together with such to joyn in any action concerning the worship of god. ( k ) see master balls confutation of the brownists . ( l ) barr. dis . p. . this book being a publike prescript liturgie , were it the best that ever was devised by mortal man ; yet being brought into the church , yea into any private house , would be an abominable sacrifice in the sight of god , even as a dead dog . truely i am ashamed to write of so grosse and filthy abominations so generally received , even of all states of these parts of the world , who of a popish custom and tradition have received it one of another , without any warrant from the word . ibid. p. . other more smoothe hypocrites , yet as grosse idolaters , use the lords prayer as a close of their own . ( m ) canns necessity of separation , p. . it is all one , whether turning on the left hand we embrace the idolatry of bishops , or turning on the other hand we follow the new devices of mens foolish brains ; for utter destruction certainly follows both . ( n ) robinsons apologie , p. . quae nos ad separationem solicitant , ipsam ecclesiae materialem & formalem constitutionem ejusdemque politeiae administrationem essentialem spectant . ( o ) johns . enquiry , p. . seeing by the mercy of god we have seen and forsaken the corruptions which remain in the french and dutch churches , we cannot partake with them in such case , without apostacie from the truth . ( p ) johns . plea , p. . every particular church , with their pastors , stand immediately under christ the arch-pastor , without any other strange ecclesiastical power intervening , whether it be of prelates , or other unlawful usurping synods , or of any such like , invented by man , and brought into the church . barrows dis . p. . if we would but lightly examine these secret classes , these ordinary set synods which the reformists would openly set up , they shall , no doubt , be found as new , strange , antichristian , and prejudicial to the rights of the church , as contrary to the gospel of christ as the other , what shew soever of former antiquity or present necessity they can pretend . idem refut . of giff●rd , p. . these are the antient sects of the pharisees and sadduces , the one in precisenesse , outward shew of holinesse , hypocrisie , vain-glory , and covetousnesse , resembling , or rather exceeding the pharisees ; the other , in their whole religion , and dissolute conversation , like to the sadduces , looking for no resurrection , judgement , or life to come ; the one removing from place to place for their advantage and best entertainment , in the errour of ba'aam , for wages , seduce and distract the people of the lord from their own churches and pastors . sions royal prerogative , in the preface . whereas the papists place the power of christ given to the church , in the pope , the protestants in the bishops , the reformed churches , as they are called , in the presbytery : neither of them hath right in this thing , but contrarywise christ hath given the said power of his to all his saints , and placed it in the body of every particular congregation . ( q . ) robinsons apol. p . personas episcoporum vel autoritatem qua potiuntur civilem in rebus vel civilibus vel etiam ecclesiasticis non aversamur . ( q . ) vide supra f. ( r . ) bar. dis . p. . such like detestable stuff hath master calvin in his ignorance brought to defend his own rash and disorderly proceedings at geneva , whiles he at the first dash made no scruple to receive the whole state into the bosome of the church : yea , that which is worse , and more to be lamented , it became a miserable precedent and pernicious example to all europe , to fall in the like transgression , as in the confused estate of all those regions where the gospel is thus orderly taught , is more then plain . ( r . ) robins . apol. p. . profitemur coram deo & hominibus adeo nobis convenire cum ecclesus reformatis belgicis in re religionis , ut omnibus & singulis earundem ecclesiarum fidei articulis prout habentur in harmonia confessionum fidei , paratisimus subscribere . ibid. p. . ecclesias reformatas pro veris & genuinis habemus , cum iisdem in sacris dei communionem profitemur , & quantum in nobis est colimus ; conciones publicas ab illarum pastoribus habitas ex nostris qui norunt linguam belgicam frequentant ; sacram coenam earum membris si qua forte nostris coetibus intersint nobis cognita , participamus : malis illarum serio ingemiscimus . apol. for the brownists , pag. . we are willing and ready to subscribe those grounds of religion published in the confession of faith made by the church of scotland , hoping in the unity of the same faith to be saved by jesus christ , being also like minded in points of greatest moment with all other reformed churches ; and on the contrary , for anabaptists , familists , and all other heretikes , new , and old , we utterly reject them , and all their errours and heresies . johns . plea. p. . i acknowledge the reformed churches to be the true churches of christ , with whom i agree , both in the faith of christ , and in many things concerning the order and government of the church . ( r . ) johns . inquiry , p. . having declined to divers errors of the dutch , the church did excommunicate him , and so still he remains . ibid. p. . yet it is false that we have excommunicate any for the hearing onely the word preached among the dutch or french ; for these that yet we have cast out here , it hath been partly for revolting from the truth which they professed with us , to the corruptions of those churches , and partly for other sins . ( s ) the confession , p. . the state of the dutch church at amsterdam is so confused , that the whole church can never come together in one ; they read out of a book certain prayers invented and imposed by man ; the command of christ matth. . they neither observe , nor suffer to be observed rightly ; they worship god in the idoll-temples of antichrist , their ministers have their set maintenance , their elders change yeerly , they celebrate marriage in the church , they use a new censure of suspension . ( t ) robins . apol . p. . ecclesiae anglicanae constitutio materialis est ex hominum flagitiosorum colluvie , paucis si cum reliquis piis admistis conferantur . ( v ) canns necessity , p. . he is to come himself into the publike assembly , all looking on him with love and joy , as one that comes to be married , and there he is to make publike confession of his faith , to answer divers questions ; being found worthy by the consent of the whole , he is to be taken into the communion . ( x ) bar. dis . p. . i have shewed , that the known and suffered sin of any member , is contagious to all that communicate with them in that estate , and maketh them which communicate in prayers or sacraments with such an obstinate offender , as guilty in gods sight as he himself is . ( y ) bar. dis . p. . i have shewed that the whole church hath no power to dispence with the breach of the least commandment , and that such obstinate sin in the whole church breaketh the covenant with god , and maketh it cease to be a church , or in gods favour , till it repent . ( z ) vide supra . x , y. ( aa ) bar. dis . p. . they make this part of gods word substantial , that of form ; this fundamental , that accidental ; this necessary to salvation , that needlesse ; but if the whole word of god be holy ▪ pure , and true , then is this deep learning of theirs , devillish and blasphemous . ibid. they thus to colour their wickednesse , make some part of gods word fundamental , substantial , necessary ; other accidental , superficial , needlesse , which makes some sins openly and manifestly convinced , yet obstinately persisted in without any repentance in this life , not to be mortal as the papists do . barrows refut . p. . we have learned to put difference betwixt errour and heresie . obstinacy joyned to errour after it is duely convinced , maketh heresie : and further we say , that any errour being obstinately holden and taught , after it is duely convinced and reproved , maketh an heretike ; and heresie in that party , and in that congregation that so holdeth and teacheth , doth separate from the faith and communion of christ . ibid. p. . it is his scholastical , or rather sophistical distinction of errours fundamental , &c. they who obstinately hold any errour or transgression , and will not by repentance be purged , there from lose christ , and so hold not the foundation . ( bb ) bar. dis . p. . such like detestable stuff hath master calvin in his ignorance , partly to confute that damnable sect of anabaptists , which fantastically dream to themselves of a church in this life without spot , and for every transgression that ariseth , are ready to forsake the fellowship of the church , without due and orderly reproof . ( cc ) rob. apol. p. . formalis ecclesiae constitutio est ex fidei & resipiscentiae confessione orali per adultos facta consociatio in particulares coetus . ( dd ) confession of faith , p. . being come forth of this antichristian estate , to the true profession of christ , beside the instructing of their own families , they are willingly to come together in christian communion , and orderly to covenant and unite themselves in visible congregations . a light for the ignorant . p. . this voluntary uniting , is the form and being of the politick and visible vnion and communion . ( ee ) robins . just . p. . this we hold and affirm , that a company consisting , though but of two or three gathered by a covenant made to walk in all the ways of god , known unto them , is a church , and so hath the whole power of christ . ibid. p. . two or three thus gathered together , have the same right with two or three thousand ; neither the smallnesse of the number , nor meanesse of the persons can prejudice their rights . ( ff ) johns . plea. p. . the constitution of every particular church should be such that each of them may ordinarily come together in one place for the worship of god and all other duties belonging to them , by the word of god. rob. apol. p. . statu●mus non debere ecclesias particulares ambitu suo plura membra complecti quam quae in unum locum simul coire possunt . ( gg ) vide supra . x , y. ( hh ) bar. dis . p. . they suite to bring christ in by the arm of flesh , by suiting and supplicating to his vassals and servants ▪ if so be they can imagine them christians , that will not suffer christ to reign over them by his laws and ordinances . if they judge them no christians , then they suite and stay on his enemies , till they will suffer christ to reign and rule over his own church . ( ii ) confession . p. . beside the instruction of their families , they are willingly to come together , and unite themselves in visible congregations : then such to whom god hath given gifts to interpret the scriptures , may , and ought by the appointment of the congregation , to prophecy , and so to teach publikely the word of god , untill such time as god manifest men with able gifts to such offices as christ hath appointed for the publike ministery of the church , but no sacrament to be administred untill the pastors or teachers be chosen , and ordained to their office. ( kk ) barr. dis . pag. . which people thus gathered are to be esteemed an holy church , and hath power to receive into and cast out of their fellowship , although they have attained to have yet among them neither a ministery nor sacraments , providing it be not by any default in them that they be wanting . ibid. it is manifest , that all the members of the church have alike interest in christ , in his word , in the faith ; that all the affairs of the church belong to the body together ; that all the actions of the church , prayers , sacraments , censures , faith , be the action of them all joyntly , and of every one severally , although the body to divers actions uses divers members which it knows most fit for the same ; all the charged to watch , admonish , reprove , and hereunto have the power of the lord , the keyes of the kingdom , even the word of the most high , whereby to binde the rulers in chains , and their nobles in fetters , to admonish the greatest , even archippus , to look to his ministery , and if need be , to plead with their mother . ( ll ) canns necessity of sep p. . none may hear , or joyn in spiritual communion with that ministery which hath not a true vocation and calling , by election , approbation , and ordination of that faithful people whereto he is a minister . ibid. p. . so necessary is a right election , and calling , to every ecclesiastike office ; that without the same , it cannot possibly be true or lawful . barr. refut . p. . the minister must not onely be called to a true office , but must have a lawful calling to that office ; otherwise he is but an intruder , a theef , and a murderer : every particular congregation ought to make choice of their own pastors . ( mm ) a light for , p. . in the false church , the particular congregations have no authority to produce or raise officers out of themselves ; for the clergy is a distinct body , and sent by their ecclesiastical heads , and bring their office and authority with them . ( nn ) bar. refut . p. . this power of ordination is not as the unruly clergy of these dayes suppose , derived from the apostles and evangelists , under the permanent ministery of pastors and elders . ibid. p. . ordination is but a publishing of that former contract and agreement , betwixt the whole church and these elected officers , the church giving , and the elect receiving their offices , as by the commandment of god , with mutual vow to each other in all duties . canns necessity of separ . p. . none may joyn with that ministery which hath not a true calling , by election and ordination of that faithful people to whom he is to administer . ( oo ) johns . plea. p. . it is to be understood according to ainsworth , robinson , and smith , of men , women , and children , in their own persons , who are bo●●d in their own persons to be present , to hear and judge controversies . ( pp ) rob. justifi . p. . also p. . ( qq ) light for the ignorant , p. . these officers have not onely their authority from particular congregations , but do arise originally and naturally out of the same . ( rr ) vide supra . kk . also bar. dis ▪ p. . the least of the church hath as much power by the word of god , to binde the sin of the pastor ; and upon his repentance , to pronounce comfort and peace to him , as he hath to binde or loose the sins of the least . ( ss ) confess . p. . as every congregation hath power to elect and ordain their own ministery , so also have they power , when any such default in life , doctrine , or administration breaks out , as by the rule of the word deprives them of their ministery , by due order to depose them ; yea , if the case so require , if they remain obstinate , orderly to cut them off by excommunication . canns necessity , p. . if they shall sin scandalously , the congregation that chose them freely , hath free power to depose them , and put another in their room . ( tt ) johns . inquir . p. . we have in our church the use of the exercise of prophecy spoken of , cor. . in which , some of the brethren , such as for gifts are best able , though not in office of the ministery , deliver from some portion of scripture , doctrine , exhortation , comfort ; sometimes two at a time , sometimes more . ( vv ) bar. disc . p. . their is no cause to doubt but any of gods servants may censure , judge , and avoid that congregation which rejecteth gods word , breaketh gods law , despiseth his reproof and mercy , as a wicked assembly , and an adulterous church . ibid. p. . who can deny but that every particular member hath power , yea and ought to examine the manner of administrating the sacraments ; as also , the estate , disorder , and transgressions of the whole church , and to call them all to repentance ; and if he finde them obstinate in their sin , rather to leave their fellowship , then to partake with them in wickednesse ? ( xx ) vide supra . mm. ( yy ) vide supra . ll . ( zz ) smiths differences , p. . it may be a question whether the church may not administer the sacraments before there be any officers among them . ( aaa ) bar. disc . p. . i have alwayes found it the parents office to provide marriage for their children ; and that the parties themselves should affiance and betroath one another in the fear of god , and in the presence of such witnesses as are present ; and that in their parents or other private houses , without turning to the church or to the priest . confess . pag. . the dutch church at amsterdam celebrates marriage in the church , as if it were a part of the ecclesiastick administration , while as it is in the nature of it meerly civil . ( bbb ) vide supra aaa . ( ccc ) vide supra aaa . ( ddd ) johns . inqui. p. . these of our members that you censure , they avow that they accused themselves of adultery , not for that end to be quit of their wives , but being perswaded in their minde that they ought not to continue with their wives , having by their adultery broken the bond of marriage . ibid. this indeed we held the most of us heretofore , and some of us are so perswaded still ; and while we were generally so minded , we thought it our duty to walk accordingly ( he means to excommunicate even the innocent party who was pleased to dwel with her husband after he had sinned ) taking the innocent party that retained such offenders , though upon repentance , yet to be defiled and live in sin . ( eee ) johns . plea , p. . every particular church with the pastor , doth stand immediately under jesus christ the arch-pastor , without any other strange ecclesiastical power intervening , &c. vide supra p. also robinsons apol. p. . non magis erat petrus & paulus homo integer & perfectus ex partibus suis essentialibus & integralibus constans , sine relatione ad alios homines , quàm est ●oetus particularis recte institutus & ordinatus tota integra & perfecta ecclesia , ex suis partibus constans immediate & independenter quòad alias ecclesias sub solo christo ; non itaque movendi sub humanae prudentiae , antiquitatis , unitatis , aut alio ullo colore ecclesiae visibilis seu ministerialis termini antiqui quos posuerunt apostoli . ( fff ) canns guide to sion , about the midst . it is sure that christ hath not subjected any congregation of his to any superiour ecclesiastical jurisdiction then to that which is within it self ; so that if the whole church shall erre in a matter of faith or religion , no other church or church-officer hath any warrant from the word of god , or power to censure , punish , or controle the same , but are onely to advise them , and so to leave their souls to the immediate judgement of christ . robins . apol. p. . licet imò incumbit pastori unjus ecclesiae ut & reliquis membris quod donum accepit sive spirituale sive temporale prout datur occasio , id aliis ecclesiis & earum membris impertiri , ex charitatis vinculo quo illis adunatur , non autem exequi in iis munus publicum ex authoritatis prerogativa quam in suos solos habet . ( ggg ) johns . plea , pag. . to this end , and in this manner may be had a profitable use of synods , classes , and assemblies for mutual help and advice in cases of question , controversie , and difficulty about religion , so that they do not challenge or usurpe any unlawful jurisdiction or power over the particular churches , and their governours . ( hhh ) bar. disc . p. . these secret classes , these ordinary set synods which the reformists would set up . ( iii ) bar. refut . p. . in a christian synod no christian ought to be shut out , but all have equal power to speak , assent or dissent , without disturbing the order of the holy church , by presuming to speak before the ancients , or against any thing said by them without just cause ; who so doth , is reproved of all , judged of all as a disturber . ( kkk ) vide supra . iii. ( lll ) bar. disc . p. . in their synods the matters being debated , the greatest part prevaileth , and carrieth the judgement . ibid. p. . this balloting by suffrage or pluralty of voices , might well be a custom among the heathen in their popular government , but it is unheard of , and unsufferable in the church of christ . ( mmm ) ibid. p. . the order and manner of these counsel● ▪ is , first to chuse a prolocutor , moderator , or judge to govern , and order the action , who , and when they shall speak , and when cease . ibid. p. . not here to speak of their solemn order observed in these counsels and synods , as their choice by suffrages among themselves of their archisynagogos or rectorchori , their president as they call him . ( nnn ) vide supra . fff . ( ooo ) bar. disc . p. . every member of his church is to pronounce upon them the judgements that are written , and to throw upon them the stone of his judgement and consent : therefore hath the lord raised up the thrones of david in his church , and set his saints in seats round about his throne . a light for the ignorant , pag. . the true power which christ our king hath received of the father , and communicated to his saints ; and these onely is that dominion which the ancient of days hath given to his saints , dan. . . ( ppp ) johns . plea. p. . the lord hath promised to raise up his church again to the former integrity , and to set up the new and heavenly jerusalem in the ancient beauty thereof . ( qqq ) bar. disc . p. . their churches stand in their old idolatrous shapes , and can never be purged till they be laid on heaps as their youngest sisters , the abbacies were . confess . p. . it is the office of the magistrate to destroy all idol-temples : the dutch church of amsterdam worships god in the idol-temples of antichrist . ( rrr ) bar. dis . p. . some of their old relicts are yet in use , as their bells , surplices , &c. we may resolutely detest all such as abominable idols , such as by the law of god are devoted to utter destruction ; the very gold of them , deut. . is to be destroyed ; in such detestation ought idolatry to be . god hath such idol places , and all their furniture in detestation , so that he hath commanded the magistrate to raze and deface them ; so that , neither they can be used to the worship of god , nor we have any civil use of them , seeing they are execrable and devoted to destruction ; if the most precious matters be forbidden , how much more the baser iron , brasse , &c. canns necessity , p. . he that ordained first bells , was sabinian the pope , in the yeer . whatsoever cometh from antichrist , cometh from the devil and out of the bottomlesse pit. ( sss ) bar. refut . p. . where learned you to buried in hallowed churches and church-yards , as though ye had no fields to bury in . idem . disc . p. . me thinks the church-yards of all other places should be not the convenientest for burial ; it was a thing never used till popery began : it is neither comely , convenient , nor wholesom● . ( ttt ) confess . p. . it is the office of the magistrate to destroy all idol-temples , and to convert to their civil vses not onely the benefit of all such idolatrous buildings and monuments , but also all the revenues , possessions , glebes and maintenance of any false ministry within their own dominions . ( vvv ) vide supra , ttt , also bar. disc . p. . being given to the maintenance of a popish ministry , they ought to be put to civil vses , and not to the maintenance of christs ministry . ( xxx ) confess . p. . christ having instituted and ratified to continue to the worlds end , the ministery of pastors , teachers , elders , deacons , helpers for instruction and government of his church . yyy . johns . plea , . whether it be not the duty of all churches , and of the members thereof , every one according to their ability , to give maintenance unto their ministers , and as there is occasion , to the elders also that rule the church , and to the deacons and deaconesses that serve and minister therein . zzz . bar. disc . p. . parsonages and vicarages , in name and office , are popish and antichristian . ibid. p. . here also by the way , the unlawfulnesse of their glebes is well noted . aaaa . those men , whether priest or people , which either pay or receive the tythes , still keep the levitical laws for the maintenance of the ministery , and thereby abolish the gospel , and are abolished from christ , whom we deny to be dead , risen , or ascended , while we maintain the shadow or any part of the ceremonial law to be revived . ibid. p. . the prince demandeth my goods ; i am ready and willing to depart with all to him , without all enquiry : but if he command me to give my goods to such an idol , or after such a wicked manner as by way of tythes to a minister , or by way of pension to an antichristian minister ; i may not obey , but rather suffer his indignation , yea death . bbbb . bar. disc . p. . this shepherd is not limited , nor the sheep constrained to a tent or any stinted portion , but according to the present want of the one , and the state of the other , they together relieving him , and he together bearing the burden of their common poverty ; every one that is taught , freely imparting of all his goods to the competent maintenance of such as instruct them , not unto excesse , but sufficiency : which contribution , as it is the duty of the saints , so the manner of it , it is a free offering of their benevolence , an holy alms unto the lord ; by contribution and alms , our saviour christ , and his apostles , and all the officers of the church , were and are to be maintained . ibid. p. . they are not by rated proportions , as tenths or third , but in love to make him partaker of that little or much the lord sendeth , according to his present wants and necessary uses ; who , if he have but food and raiment , ought to be therewith content . confess . p. . at amsterdam their ministers have their set-maintenance in another manner then christ hath ordained . bbbb . rob. ap. p. . omnia etiam bona corporalia suo modo communia habenda , prout cuíque opus aequissimum videtur . ( cccc ) bar. disc . p. . the dayes of their week still are devoted to the gods of the heathen , having utterly lost the name and order of their creator : as the first , second , third day of such a week ; the first , second , third moneth of such a yeer . idem . refut . p. . if luke should call it mars-street , speaking in his own name , and for himself , he should commit idolatry by naming the creature of god after an idol . david said he would not take the names of their idols in his lips , but luke recordeth onely the story , and the vulgar name of the place . ( dddd ) see the preface of the confession . ( eeee ) bar. disc . p. . they have a prescript place like a tub , called the pulpit . ibid. p. . in that his priviledged tub be may preach what he list . ( ffff ) ibid. p. . they are prescribed the time when they begin , they dispute to the hour-glasse . ibid. p. . he must preach a sermon an hour long . ( gggg ) bar. disc . p. . he may peradventure do his pennance before all the sodomites of the parish in white sheets . ( hhhh ) johns . plea , p. . book-prayer being mens invention , in the worship of god , is a breach of the second command . these books and stinted prayers , become indeed to be idols , supplying the place of the word and spirit of god ; in which respect such manner of worship becometh idolatrous and superstitious , and not to be communicate with ; for what agreement hath the temple of god with idols ? vide supra . d. l. ( iiii ) rob. apol. p. . non dubito quin rite & pie usurpari possit haec ipsa forma in precando deum , modo absit opinio necessitatis & perfectionis . ( kkkk ) bar. disc . p. . here would not be forgotten the sweet psalmodical harmony of the vulturs , cranes , &c. all these t●gether with one accord sing some pleasant ballad , or else to davids melodious harp some psalm in rythme , well concinnate to the ear , though never a whit to the sense , purpose , or true use of the psalm . idem . refut . p. . i have not spoken against that most comfortable and heavenly harmony of singing psalms , but against rhyming and paraphrasing the psalms as in your church , and against apocrypha and erroneous ballads in rythme , sung commonly in your church instead of the psalms , and other songs of holy scripture . ( llll ) rob. apo● . p. . nego eandem esse rationem precationis & cantionis ; ipsi psalmi quorum materia precatione aut gratulatione constat , in hunc finem proprie & primo formantur a prophetis in cantiones & psalmos spirituales , ut nos edoceant , & quae vota illi in angustiis constituti ad deum fuderint , quasque liberati eidem deo gratias retulerint , ut nos eosdem psalmos sive psallentes sive legentes , institueremus nos ipsos sive publice sive privatim sive docendo sive commone faciendo sive consolando ad dei gloriam in cordibus nostris promovendam . ( mmmm ) smiths diff. p. . that the reading out of a book is no part of spiritual worship , but the invention of the man of sin ; that books and writings are in the nature of pictures and images ; that it is unlawful to have the book before the eyes in singing of a psalm . ( nnnn ) smiths differences . vide supra , cap. . e. ( oooo ) confess . p. . such to whom god hath given gifts to interpret the scriptures , ought by the appointment of the congregation to prophecy , and so to teach publikely the word of god , until such time as god manifests men with able gifts to such offices as christ hath appointed to the publike ministry . ( pppp ) bar. disc . p. . shall i speak according to the times and say , be no true sacrament ? or rather leave that traditional word which ingendreth strife rather then godly edifying , and say , be no true seal of the covenant ? ( qqqq ) vide supra . f. ( rrrr ) johns . plea , p. . whether it be not best to celebrate the lords supper where it can be every lords day ; this the apostles used to do ; by so doing we shall return to the intire practise of the churches in former ages . ( ssss ) how corrupt is the signe of the crosse , kneeling and uncovering of the head at the lords supper , and such things which scripture prescribes not , but men have taken upon themselves , thus breaking the second command , and joyning their posts and thresholds with the lords . men are thus drawn away from the simplicity of the practise used by christ and his apostles , who sat when they ate and drank and did no more discover then before . ( tttt ) johns . plea , p. . to have love feasts on the dayes of the lords supper , it is a thing indifferent to keep or leave them , as they shall be used or abused , or as every church shall finde them to be most expedient for their estate . ( vvvv ) bar. refut . p. . not here to mention the binding of the faith of the church to an apocrypha catechism . idem . disc . p. . they are not ashamed to preach and publikely expound in their church , their fond apocrypha catechisms . xxxx . bar. disc . p. . their forged patchery , commonly called the apostles creed . yyyy . his refut . p. . what scripture can you bring for the blasphemous article of christs descent into hell ? zzzz . cans necessity , p. . bare reading of the word , and single service-saying , is an english popery ; and far be it from the lords people to hear it ; for if they would do so , they would offer to the lord a corrupt thing , and so incur that curse of malachi . aaaaa . johns . enquiry , p. . we have in our church the use of the exercise of prophecie , spoken of , cor. . in which some of the brethren which are for gifts best able , though not in office of the ministery , deliver from some portion of scripture , doctrine , exhortation , comfort ; sometimes two at a time , sometimes more . bbbbb . johns . enquiry , p. . then , if there be occasion , upon the scriptures treated , or questions propounded and answers made . bar. disc . p. . in that his priviledged tub , he may speak of what be list ; none of his auditory have power to call in question , correct , or refuse the same presently or publikely . ccccc . rob. apol. p. . prorsus inauditum ante haec nostra saecula sive inter gentes , sive inter judaeos , sive inter christianos ut judicia publica aliive actus naturae publicae privatim aut seclusa plebe exercerentur . ibid. p. . per plebem cujus libertatem & jus suffragandi in negotiis vere publicis asserimus , non intelligimus pueros & mulieres , sed solos viros eosque adultos . ddddd . browns life and manners of all true christians , in the preface , or treatise of reformation without tarrying for any ; and of the wickednesse of those preachers which will not reform till the magistrate command or compel them , p. . know ye not that they which have their full and sufficient authority and calling , are not to care for a further authority ? and hath not every lawful pastor his full authority ? ibid. p. . the lord did not onely shew them the tabernacle , but bade them make it : but these men will not make it at all , because they will tarry for the magistrate . ibid. p. . they could not force religion , as you would have the magistrate to do : and it was forbidden to the apostles to preach to the unworthy , or to force a planting or government in the church . the lords kingdom is not by force , neither durst moses nor any of the kings of judah force the people , by law or by power , to receive the church-government : but after they received it , if then they fell away , and sought not the lord , they might put them to death . they do cry discipline , discipline , that is , for a civil forcing to imprison the people , or otherwise , by violence to handle and beat them , if they would not obey them . ibid. p. . the lords people is of the willing sort , they shall come unto sion , and inquire the way unto jerusalem , not by force nor compulsion , but with their faces thitherward : and p. . because the church is in a common-wealth , it is of the magistrates charge , that is , concerning the outward provision and outward justice they are to look ; but to compel religion , to plant churches by power , and to force a submission to ecclesiastical government , by laws and penalties , belongeth not to them , neither yet to the church . eeeee . confess . p. . leaving the suppression of this antichristian estate to the magistrate , to whom it belongeth . fffff . bar. refut . in the preface . we acknowledge the prince ought to compel all his subjects to the hearing of gods word , in the publike exercises of the church ; yet cannot the prince command any to be a member of the church , or the church to receive any without assurance by their publike profession of their own faith , or to retain any longer then they continue to walk orderly in the faith. ggggg . bar. disc . p. . when princes depart from the faith , and will not be reduced by admonition or reproof , they are no longer to be held in the faith of the church , but are to receive the censure of christ , as any other , and to be cut off as withred branches : the church cannot , neither hath in her power to defer the sentence of excommunication any longer , on hope of further tryal , because they have had already that tryal which god alloweth ; it is a leaden rule to proceed to the sentence of excommunication with a leaden-heel , when the sin is ripe . ibid. p. . which censures , if the prince contemn , he contemneth them against his own soul ; and is thereupon , by the power of the church disfranchised out of the church , and to be delivered over to satan , as well as any other offender . hhhhh . johns . inqui. p. . we hold it antichristian to entertain or admit any appeal from one church to another ; the highest ordained by the lord for all sinners , is that church whereof the sinner is a member . and therefore , in urging our church to submit to another church , they sought to draw it to antichristian bondage . iiiii . bar. dis . p. . i am perswaded , that the magistrate ought not to make permanent laws of that the lord hath left in our liberty . ibid. p. . we approve all the laws of god , to be most holy and inviolable , and all-sufficient both for church and common-wealth , and the perfit instruction of every member and officer of the same , in their several duties , so that nothing is now left to any mortal man of what high dignitie and calling so ever , but to execute the will of god according to his word . kkkkk . bar. disc . p. . god will have his laws and statutes kept , and not altered according to the state and policy of times ; for these laws were made , not for the jews estate , as master calvin teaches ; but for all mankinde , especially for all the israel of god , from which laws it is not lawful in judgement to decline to the right hand , or to the left . by the neglect of these laws , the whole world overflows with sin . ibid. p. . in the common-wealth they have abrogated all gods judicial laws , and cut them off at one blow , as made for the common-wealth of the jews onely , as if god had no regard of the conversation of other christians , or had left the gentiles in greater liberty to make laws and customes to themselves . lllll. ibid. hereby it cometh to passe that so many ungodly laws are decreed , and the whole course of justice perverted , that so many capital mischiefs as god punisheth by death , such as blaspheme the name of the lord , open idolatry , disobedience to parents , are not by law punished at all : incest and adultery , are either past over , or punished by some light or triffling punishment . ibid. p. . the high-commission punishes the most execrable idolatries but with prisons or forfeitures , making it a pecuniary matter , contrary to gods word . mmmmm . . vide hhhh . mmmmm . . bar. dis . p. . theft , if above thirteen pence , is punished by death . nnnnn . bar. dis . p. . the vniversity of oxford and cambridge have the same popish and idolatrous beginning with the colledges of monks , fryers and nuns ; and these vermin had , and still do retain the same insufferable and incurable abuses ; therefore queen elizabeth ought by good right to abolish them as her progenitors did the abbeys . ooooo . ibid. p. . they repair to the vniversities to be instructed in heathen and vain arts : the churches of christ have not such heathenish and idolatrous customes ; they have no such prophane arts , vain education and literature . ibid. p. . we finde them all generally the seed of vnbeleevers , nourished in all manner of prophanenesse , heathenism , vain and ungodly sciences ; their education from their cradle is ungodly in the common schools , where they must learn their greek and latin from lascivious poets or heathenish philosophers : with this liquor are their pitchers at first seasoned ; there are they trained up in logick , rhetorick and philosophy ; which learning they draw from aristotle , cicero , and such like ; there they learn to speak by art syllogisms and tropes . idem . refut . p. . this i dare affirm , that from the book of god , they never derived these their colledges , schools , halls , orders , and degrees ; that i may not say arts , authors , exercise , use of learning , disputations , commencements . they fight with their school-learning , vain arts , philosophy , rhetorick , logick , against the truth and servants of god. ppppp . vide supra . n , o. qqqqq . vide rrrrr . rrrrr . bar. dis . p. . in the church of christ , the name and offices of chancelor , vice-chancelor , dean of faculty , masters of colledges , fellows , beadels , bursours , and all their several statutes and customes are strange ; as also , their manner of degrees , disputing for their degrees , and order of teaching : neither have any such vniversities , colledges , society of schollers , any ground of the word of god. i see not why they should have any more toleration then their elder brethren , the monks , who every way had as great colour of holinesse , and shew of vtility to the church , as they : they have all one and the same hellish original they had ; and these still retain the same blasphemous incurable abuses , which can no ways be reformed but by their utter dissolution . rrrrr . bar. dis . p. . the english of christian religion , and profession of the gospel , i can well away with ; but this english romish abstract of divinity , i am assured , came forth of this same forge that the title of the supreme head of the church ; and cannot by all the glosses they can devise , be made other then most high blasphemy against the person of christ , who is the onely vniversal doctor of all his disciples . ibid. p. . if they continue still , and give their minde to the study of divinity as they call it , which is as much as to say , the reading of mens writings ; with these feathers they flee , with these eyes they see ; which books being taken from them , they are as mute as fish , as blinde as moles . ibid. their divinity is traditional , wholly derived from other mens books and writings , both for the understanding , dividing , and interpretation of all scripture ; as also for all questions , doctrines , and doubts that arise ; and not springing from the fountain of gods spirit in themselves , according to the measure of knowledge , faith and grace given unto them . sssss . bar. disc . p. . it were much better for the whole church , that for prophecy and doctrine , preachers would lay aside all authors , and be take themselves wholly to the book of god : so should that book be more soundly understood , so should they see with their own eyes , and not other mens . ttttt . bar. disc . p. . these questions , as also the whole scripture , must in these their schools and disputations , be insufferably corrupted , wrested , blasphemed , according to the lusts of these philosophical and heathen disputers , which here must handle , divide , discusse according to their vain affected arts of logick and rhetorick : all these prizes must be played in latin , that the learning may the more , and the folly the lesse be perceived , least even the common people should hisse them off the stage if they spoke in english . ibid. p. . they give liberty to their wits in their learning to deface , strive , and dispute against the holy known truth of god , tossing it as a tenice ball amongst them , both publikely in their schools , and privately in their colledges amongst them . vvvvv . bar. refut . p. . i would not here that any should think we condemn any lawful art , or any necessary science , or any holy exercise , or schools of institution . let their arts and sciences be necessary and godly , not vain , curious , unlawful : let them be taught , not in a vain-glorious or superstitious manner , but in all sobriety , and the fear of god ; if their vniversities were framed to these rules , it were good . chap. iii. the original and progresse of the independents , and of their carriage in new-england . the sect ( if so without offence it may be called ) which this day is the subject of the most discourse , and the object of the greatest passions ; some pouring out upon it more of their love and hope , others of their anger and fear , then were convenient , is that of independency . of all the by-paths wherein the wanderers of our time are pleased to walk , this is the most considerable ; not for the number , but for the quality of the erring persons therein . there be few of the noted sects which are not a great deal more numerous ; but this way , what it wants in number , supplies by the weight of its followers . after five yeers endeavours and great industry within the lines of the cities communication , they are said as yet to consist much within one thousand persons ; men , women , and all who to this day have put themselves in any known congregation of that way , being reckoned . but setting aside number , for other respects they are of so eminent a condition , that not any nor all the rest of the sects are comparable to them ; for they have been so wise as to engage to their party some of chief note , in both houses of parliament , in the assembly of divines , in the army , in the city and countrey-committees ; all whom they daily manage with such dexterity and diligence , for the benefit of their cause , that the eyes of the world begin to fall upon them more then upon all their fellows : it will be requisite therefore that with the greater care we give an account of them . of this our account there shall be three parts . the first , an history of their original and progresse ▪ to that height wherein now they stand . the second , a narrative of their tenents . the third , a con●tion of some of their prime principles . concerning , ●eir original ; the separatists were their fathers . this is demonstrable , not onely by the consanguinity of their tenents , the one having borrowed all their chief doctrines and practices from the other , but also by deduction of their pedigree in this clear line . master robinson did derive his way to his separate congregation at leyden ; a part of them did carry it over to plymouth in new-england ; here master cotton did take it up , and transmit it from thence to master goodwin , who did help to propagate it to sundry others in old-england first , and after , to more in holland , till now by many hands it is sown thick in divers parts of this kingdom . but the manner how this seed did grow , is not unworthy consideration . when the separatists for whole fifty yeers had over-toil'd themselves for little purpose , their horrible divisions , wheresoever they set up , marring their encrease ; behold ▪ at the very point of time when their spunk was dying , and their little smoke , both at amsterdam and leyden , was well-neer vanished , god in his secret providence permitted the tyranny of bishops , which first had begotten them , to put new life in their ashes , and bring them back from their grave , to that vigour wherein now they appear . after the death of ainsworth , the brownists at amsterdam came to a small unconsiderable handful , and so yet they remain . no other at that time in the whole world were known of that religion , but a small company at leyden , under master robinsons ministery ; which , partly by divisions among themselves , and partly by their pastors deserting many of their principles , was well-neer brought to nought : onely about the twenty eighth , as i take it , or the thirtieth yeer of this age , some of them going over , for a more commodious habitation , to new-england , did perswade their neighbours who sate down with them there at new-plymouth , to erect with them a congregation after their separate way ( a ) . this congregation did incontinent leaven all the vicinity . the planters in new-england , so far as their own informations give notice , not minding religion for many yeers after their first enterprise ( b ) , were ready to receive , without great question , any pious form which might be presented by their neighbours , whose minde served them to be active in such ●ers . also that way of new plymouth , beside the more then ordinary shew of devotion , did hold out so much liberty and honour to the people , that made it very suitable and lovely to a multitude who had lately stepped out of the episcopal thraldom in england , to the free air of a new world . however it was , without any noise in a few yeers , the most who settled their habitations in that land , did agree to model themselves in churches after robinsons patern . this for a time , was either not known , or not regarded in england . the first who appeared in any displeasure at it , was mr. cotton ; for this reverend man , howsoever he had faln off from the practise of som , & but of som of the ceremonies , & was distasted with episcopal government , yet so long as he abode in england , minded no more then the old non-conformity : in all his opposition to the episcopal corruptions , he went not beyond cartwright , and the presbyterians . with the way of the separatists he was then well acquainted , but declared himself against it in print , as in his preface to master hildershams sermons upon john , may be seen to this day ( c ) . neither thus alone , but a very little before his voyage to new-england , so soon as he understood of the prevailing of robinsons way there , such was his zeal against it , he wrote over to the ministers who had been the chief instruments of bringing these churches under that yoke , admonishing them freely of their falling from their former judgement , and that their new reformation was no other but the old way wherein the separatists had walked , to the grief and offence of the anti-episcopal party in england , and of the whole protestant churches ( d ) . notwithstanding this admonition , the brethren there went on in their way , yet without any hazard to others , till the . as i take it , or . yeer of our lord god , when the yoke of episcopal persecution in england became so heavy on the necks of the most of the godly , that many thousands of them did flee away , and master cotton among the rest , to joyn themselves to these american churches . here it was when that new way began first to be dangerous to the rest of the world . for master cotton , a man of very excellent parts , contrary much to his former judgement , having faln into a liking of it , and by his great with and learning , having refined it , without the impediment of any opposition , became the great instrument of drawing to it , not onely the thousands of those who left england , but also by his letters to his friends who abode in their countrey , made it become lovely to many who never before had appeared in the least degree of affection toward it . before his departure from england , by conferences in london , he had brought off master davenport and master goodwin , from some of the english ceremonies ( e ) ; but neither of these two , nor himself at that time , did minde the least degree of separation ( f ) ; yet so soon as he did taste of the new-english air , he fell into so passionate an affection with the religion he found there , that incontinent he began to perswade it , with a great deal more zeal and successe then before he had opposed it ( g ) : his convert master goodwin , a most fine and dainty spirit , with very little ado , was brought by his letters from new-england , to follow him unto this step also of his progresse , and that with so high an estimation of his new light , that he was bold to boast of it in termes a little beyond the lines of moderation ( h ) . it had been happy for england , that master cotton had taken longer time for deliberation , before that change of his minde : he might have remembred his too precipitant rashnesse in former times , both to receive , and to send abroad to the world such tenents whereof after he had cause to repent . god in wisedom permits his dearest children to set black marks on their own faces , not onely to keep themselves in humility and suspition of their own hearts , but to divert others from idolizing their gifts , and setting up their persons as a patern for their too sudden imitation . i would not willingly detract from any mans reputation ; i am oft ready enough , both to hear with contentment , and liberally to speak to the praises of men much inferiour in my thoughts to master cotton : yet when his gifts are turned into snares , when they become occasions of stumbling , and , contrary to the minde of the giver , are made inducements to follow him in his wanderings ; i am of opinion , that neither piety nor charity will hinder to remark his evident and known failings : that as his eminent endowments are strong invitations to run after him ; so the mixture of cleer weaknesse may be a retractive to every prudent man , and a caveat from god , to beware of his wayes , as well as of any other mans . i take it for a great mercy of god to simple ones , that the most , if not all , who have offred themselves to be ringleaders in any heresie or schism , or other by-way , have ever bin permitted to fall into some evident folly ; to the end , that they whose simplicity made them too prone to be misled by the strength of pregnant wits , and the luster of excellent gifts , which in the most of sectaries to this day , have ever been apparent , might be held in the love of the truth , and made cautious of being led aside by them in whose footsteps a very blunt eye might perceive the print of an evil spirit . not to speak of master cottons long continuance in the errours of his education , sundry whereof stuck to him as he confesseth all the time of his abode in england ( i ) : nor of his more dangerous fall into the gulf of pelagianism , some of the arminian errours , from which the writings of dr. twisse are said to have reclaimed him ( k ) ; however , the doctor doth say , that he hath no assurance of his recantation to this day , and therefore was willing that his treatise against master cottons erroneous writings should be published to the world . to passe by also that which i have heard of some gracious ministers of his old montanism , wherein some think he remaineth to this day . that which i point at , is , another more dangerous fall , which as already it hath much humbled his spirit , and opened his ear to instruction , and i trust it will not leave working till it have brought him yet neerer to his brethren : so to the worlds end , it cannot but be a matter of fear and trembling , to all who shall know it , and of aboundant caution to be very wary of receiving any singularity from his hand without due tryal . that which i speak of , is , his wandring into the horrible errours of the antinomians and familists , with his dear friend mistresse hutchinson ; so far , that he came to a resolution to side with her , and separate from all the churches in new-england , as legal synagogues . the truth of this horrible fall , if ye will not take it from the parties themselves , the followers of mistresse hutchinson , who ofttimes were wont to brag of master cotton for their master and patron ( l ) ; nor from the testimony of master williams ( m ) , who had as much occasion to know it , as any man else ; and if i mistake not the humor of the man , is very unwilling to report a lie of his greatest enemy . yet we may not reject the witnesse of master winthrop , the wisest of all the new-english governours hitherto , and of master wells , a gracious minister of that land , in their printed relations of the schisms there , both those , albeit , with all care and study they endeavour to save master cottons credit , yet let the truth of master cottons seduction fall from their pens in so clear termes as cannot be avoided ; for however , what they speak of the erring of the most eminent in place , might be applyed to the governour for the time ( n . ) : yet when they tell us , that the most of the seducers lived in the church of boston , and that the whole church of boston , except a few , were infected with that leprosie , and that none of them were ever-called to an account by the presbytery of that church till after the assembly , though the pastor of that church , master wilson , was alwayes exceedingly zealous against them ; also that in face of the general court , mistresse hutchinson did avow master cotton alone , and master wheelwright , to preach the truth according to her minde ; and that master cotton himself , before that same court , did openly dissent , even after the assembly , from all his brethren about wheelwrights doctrine . these , and other the like informations , are so clear , that no art will get master cotton freed ( n . ) i have been also informed by a gracious preacher , who was present at the synod of new-england ; that all the brethren there , being exceedingly scandalized with master cottons carriage , in mistresse hutchinsons processe , did so far discountenance , and so severely admonish him , that he was thereby brought to the greatest shame , confusion , and grief of minde that ever in all his life he had indured . but leaving the person of master cotton , if not the author , yet the greatest promoter and patron of independency , we will go on with the way it self . what master cotton , and the apologists , his followers , have testified of gods displeasure and judgements upon the way of the brownists ( o ) , is as evidently true of the way of the independents ; not onely because , as it will appear hereafter , both wayes really are one and the same : but also , because in the comparison of the events which have befaln to both wayes , it will be seen that the miscarriages and ( because of them ) the marks of gods anger have been more manifest upon this latter way then upon the former . independency brought to the utmost pitch of perfection which the wit and industry of its best patrons were able to attain , having the advantage of the brownists fatal miscarriages , to be exemplary documents of wisedom , being also assisted and fenced with all the security that civil laws of its friends own framing , and gracious magistrates at their absolute devotion , could afford ; notwithstanding in a very few , lesse then one week of yeers , hath flown out in more shameful absurdities then the brownists to this day , in all the fifty yeers of their trial , have stumbled upon . the verity of this broad assertion shall be palpable to any who will be at the pains a little to consider their proceedings in any of the places wherever yet they had any setled abode : for however much of their way be yet in the dark , and in this also their advantage above the brownists is great ; that in their discords none of themselves have proclaimed their own shame ; none that have fallen from them , have of purpose put pen to paper , to inform the world of their ways ; neither have any of them been willing to reply to any of the books written against them , that did put a necessity upon them to speak out the truth of many heavie imputations which with a loud voice by many a tongue are laid on them ; chusing rather to lie under the hazard of all the reproach which their unfriendly reports could bring upon them , then to make an apologie , wherein their denial might bring upon them the infamy of lying , or their grant the fastening , by their own testimony , upon the back of their party the crimes alleadged against them : notwithstanding so much is broken out from under all their coverings , as will make good what hath been said . hitherto they have had but three places of abode , new-england , holland , london . that any where else they have erected congregations , i do not know . of their adventures in these three places , we will speak a little . in new-england , when master cotton had gotten the assistance of master hooker , master davenport , and sundry other very worthy ministers , beside many thousands of people whom god in his mercy did send over to that new world , to be freed from suffering and danger , in the day of their countreys most grievous calamities ; being there alone , without the disturbance of any enemy either within or without , what were the fruits of their church-way ? first , it forced them to hold out of all churches and christian congregations , many thousands of people who in former times had been reputed in old-england very good christians . i have heard sundry esteem the number of the english in that plantation to exceed fourty thousand men and women : when master cotton is put to it , he dares hardly avow the one half of these to be members of any church ( p ) : but if we do beleeve others who were eye-witnesses also , they do avow , that of all who are there , three parts of four will not be in any church ( q . ) . to us it seemeth a grievous absurdity , a great dishonour to god , and cruelty against men , to spoil so many thousand christians , whom they dare not deny to be truely religious , of all the priviledges of the church , of all the benefits of discipline , of all the comfort of any sacrament , either to themselves , or to their children ; to put them in the condition of pagans , such as some of them professe all protestants to be who are not of their way ( q . ) . a second evil of their way , is , that it hath exceedingly hindred the conversion of the poor pagans ; god in great mercy having opened a door in these last times to a new world of reasonable creatures for that end , above all , that the gospel might be preached to them , for the enlargement of the kingdom of christ . the principles and practice of independents , doth crosse this blessed hope . what have they to do with those that are without ? their pastors preach not for conversion , their relation is to their flock , who are church-members , converted already to their hand by the labours of other men , before they can be admitted into their church . of all that ever crossed the american seas , they are noted as most neglectful of the work of conversion . i have read of none of them that seem to have minded this matter ( q . ) : onely master williams in the time of his banishment from among them , did assay what could be done with those desolate souls , and by a little experience quickly did finde a wonderful great facility to gain thousands of them to so much and more christianity , both in profession and practice , then in the most of our people doth appear ( r ) . but the unhappinesse of these principles whereof we speak , did keep him , as he professeth , from making use of that great opportunity and large door which the lord there hath opened to all who will be zealous for propagating of the gospel ( s ) . thirdly , the fruits of independency may be seen in the profession and practices of the most who have been admitted , as very fit , if not the fittest members of their churches . these have much exceeded any of the brownists that yet we have heard of ; first , in the vilenesse of their errours ; secondly , in the multitude of the erring persons ; thirdly , in the hypocrisie joyned with their errours ; fourthly , in malice against their neighbours , and contempt of their superiours , magistrates and ministers for their opposition to them in their evil ways ; and lastly , in their singular obstinacie , stiffly sticking unto their errours , in defiance of all that any upon earth could do for their reclaiming , or that god from heaven , almost miraculously , had declared against them . all this i will make good , by the unquestionable testimonies of their loving friends . for the vilenesse of their errours : they did avow openly the personal inhabitation of the spirit in all the godly , his immediate revelations without the word ; and these as infallible as scripture it self ( t ) : this is the vilest montanism . they avowed further , with the grossest antinomians , that no sin must trouble any childe of god : that all trouble of conscience for any sin , demonstrates a man subject to the covenant of works , but a stranger to the covenant of grace ( v ) : that no christian is bound to look upon the law as a rule of his conversation ( x ) : that no christian should be prest to any duty of holinesse ( y ) . neither here did they stand , but went on to aver the death of the soul with the body ( z ) : that all the saints upon earth have two bodies ( aa ) : that christ is not united to our fleshly body ; but they would have him to be united to our new body ( bb ) , with the same union where with his humanity is united with his godhead : that christs manhood was not now in the heavens ( cc ) , but that his body was his church . these abominable errours , and many more of this kinde , to the number of fourscore and eleven ( dd ) , the new-english independency did produce to the world in a very short time . for the second , the number of the erring persons ; this is said to have been incredible ; not onely multitudes of men and women every where were infected ( ee ) , but almost no society , no family of that land was free of that pest ( bb ) : boston , the best and most famous of their churches , was so far corrupted , that few there were untainted ( gg ) . concerning the hypocrisie of these hereticks , it was exceeding great : none appeared so humble , so holy , so spiritual , and full of christ , as they ( hh ) : in their speech , nought but self-denial ( ii ) : in their prayers , ravishing affections , and heavenly expressions ( kk ) : all their singular opinions , were for the advancing of free-grace ( ll ) ; for the glorious light of the gospel ; for the setting up of naked christ on his throne ( mm ) . their malice towards all that dissented from them , was so extreme , that they made the life of many , the most religious of their neighbours , to be bitter and a wearisome burden to them ( nn ) . for their ministers , some of them they adored : master cotton and master wheelwright , they set up as the onely true preachers of the covenant of grace ; they extolled them to the skies , avowing , that since the apostles dayes , none had received so much gospel-light , as they ( oo ) : but the rest of the preachers , not onely all in old england ( pp ) , but also all in new-england , except a very few , and most of all the best , the most zealous and orthodox , even the instruments of their own conversion , were to them baals priests , legal preachers , popish factors , scribes and pharisees , enemies to the gospel , voide of the spirit of grace ( qq ) . their contempt of the magistrates was as great as of the ministers : their late governour they professed was a true friend to christ , and free-grace ( rr ) ; but master winthrop their present governour , and the most of the magistrates , they proclaimed enemies of grace , persecutors , antichrists , ahabs , herods , pilates , whom god would destroy ( ss ) . their preacher , master wheelwright , would exhort the people in his sermon , to deal with the magistrates as such , remembring them how moses had killed the egyptian ( tt ) . their heresies did bring on so dangerous seditions , as in a short time did put their common-wealth in a clear hazard of utter ruine ( vv ) ; for the heretikes had drawn to their side , not onely multitudes of the people , but many of the ablest men for parts , in all trades , especially the souldiers ( xx ) . they kept such intimate familiarity , and open correspondence with the most eminent men of the land ; mistresse hutchinson , and the late governour , kept almost every day so private and long discourse with master cotton , that made them conclude all was their own ( yy ) , and forced the wise governour , master winthrop , to prevent their designes , to put the former governour , and all that followed him , from their places in the general court , and to desire him and them to be gone , which was counted a real , though a civil banishment out of their land ( zz ) : also to disarm the most of that faction expresly upon fear , least the tragedy of munster should be acted over again in new-england ( aaa ) . master williams told me , that he was imployed to buy from the savages , for the late governour , and master cotton , with their followers , a proportion of land without the english plantation , whither they might retire and live according to their own minde , exempt from the jurisdiction , civil , and ecclesiastick , of all others . master williams was in so great friendship with that late governour , when he told me so much , that i beleeve he would have been loth to have spoken any untruth of him . their obstinacy in all these things was truely marvellous ; for after all the pains which their godly pastors took upon them , in preaching , in conference , in publike disputations : after the magistrate had executed the law , and inflicted civil punishments upon some of their prime seducers ; yea , when god visibly from the heavens had declared his anger against some of their cheif leaders , punishing mistresse hutchinson with a monstruous birth of more then thirty mis-shapen creatures at one time ( bbb ) , and mistresse dyer her principal assistant , with another monstrous birth ( ccc ) of one creature , mixed of a beast , of a fish , and a foul : notwithstanding all these admonitions , their obstinacy was so great , that many of them continued pertinacious without any repentance ( ddd ) . for some of them separating of their own accord , others being banished by the magistrate , retired into those lands which master williams had bought for them ; and in that their new habitation , they continued not long ; till beside all the named errours , they fell into many more , both errours and schisms ( eee ) . and mistresse hutchinson did make a new separation , retiring to a new dwelling ( fff ) , where after her long contempt of divine and humane patience , at last god did let loose his hand , and destroyed her , sending in upon her a company of the savages , who burnt her self , her house , and all that she had ( ggg ) . notwithstanding all that god and man at that time and since hath done to discover the evil spirit that raged in that way , yet such is the stoutnesse of many , especially of the late governour , whose hand in all that businesse was cheif , that to this day if you will confer with them , they will assure , that mistresse hutchinson was much mistaken and wronged ; that she was a most pious woman , and that her tenents if well understood , were all true , at least very tolerable . we have oft marvelled , that the eldership of boston did never so much as call her before them to be rebuked for any of her errours ; though their general assembly had confuted and condemned them , yet still she was permitted to go on , till the zeal of the new governour , and the general court did condemn her to perpetual banishment ; then , and not till then , so far as we can perceive by the story , did the church of boston begin a processe against her ; and when the processe was brought to an end , master cotton by no means would put it in execution ; that burden was laid on the back of master wilson his colleague , how ever not the fittest instrument , being the person to whom mistresse hutchinson from the beginning had professed her greatest opposition ; and when the sentence was pronounced against her , they tell us , that the great cause of it was none of her heresies or errours , but her other practises especially , her grosse lying ( hhh ) . the prophanenesse also of these persons is considerable , their profession of piety being so fair , that they avow their standing aloof from all the reformed churches as unclean , because of their mixture with the prophane multitude . beside all that is said of their heresies , schisms , contentions , contempt of magistrates and ministers , all which are the prophane works of the flesh : we read of further pollution , breaking out among them , as both master cotton , and master wells do testifie ( iii ) . out of the governour , master winthrops narration , i remark one abomination , which to me seems strange , that the midwives , to their most zealous women , should not onely have familiarity with the divel ; but also in that very service , should commit divellish malefices , which , so far as they tell us , were not onely past over without punishment , but never so much as inquired after ( kkk ) . all this and more , we read of the independents in new-england , in one short narration of two or three yeers accidents among them ; what if we had their full history from any faithful hand ? it seems that many more mysteries would be brought to light , which now are hid in darknesse . it is not our intention to bring any man to a prejudice , or the least distast of the grace and gifts which god hath bestowed on master cotton or any other in new-england would to god , that all our questions with them , were come to that issue ; they should finde us here as willing as their greatest admirers , to prize , to embrace , and as our weaknesse will permit , to imitate what ever good did shine in any of them : but we have made these observations from what themselves have written , to bring if it be possible , their own hearts ; or if this be desperate , yet the mindes of others , to a suspition of that their new and singular way , which the lord hath so manifestly cursed with bader fruits , and greater store of them then ever yet did appear upon the tree of brownism , which they do so much disgrace as an unlucky plant : notwithstanding , all the gifts and graces wherewith ainsworth , robinson , and some others of its branches , have been adorned by god in as rich a measure as have been seen in any , who to this day have ingrafted themselves into their new and bitter root of independency . the testimonies . ( a ) master cottons letter to skelton , p. . your other errour that our congregations in england , are none of them particular reformed churches , requireth rather a book then a letter to answer it . you went hence of another judgement , and i am afraid , your change hath sprung from new-plymouth men , whom though i much esteem as godly loving christians ; yet their grounds , which for this tenent they received from master robinson , do not satisfie me , though the man i reverence as godly and learned . rathbones narration , p. . the church at new-plymouth was as i am informed , one of the first churches that was settled in new-england , having been a part of master robinsons church in holland , that famous brownist , from whence they brought with their church opinions and practises ; and which they there still hold without any alteration , so far as ever i could learn. master w. an eminent man of the church at plimouth , told w. r. that the rest of the churches of new-england came at first to them at plimouth , to crave their direction in church courses , and made them their patern . ( b ) vide purchase pilgrims in his discourses of america , in divers letters from new-england . ( c ) cottons letter to the reader before hildershams commentary upon john , . that one letter of his to a gentlewoman against the separation , which without his consent a separatist printed , and refuted , hath so strongly and cleerly convinced the iniquity of that way , that i could not but acknowledge in it , both the wisedom of god , and the weaknesse of the separatists : his wisedom in bringing to light such a beam of his truth by the hand of an adversary , against the minde of the author ; and the weaknesse of the other , to advance the hand of this adversary , to give himself and his cause such a deadly wound in open view , as neither himself nor all his associates can be able to heal ; in which respect , i conceive it was that the industrious doctor willet stileth this our author , schismaticorum qui vulgo brownistae vocantur malleus : the hammer of schismaticks whom they commonly call brownists . ( d ) vide supra . a. ( e ) edwards antapology , p. . knowing something of the story of master goodwins first coming to fall off from the ceremonies , having seen and perused the arguments that past betwixt him and master cotton , and some others : master goodwin assured me some moneths after his going off , that he had nothing to say , but against the ceremonies the liturgy offended him not , much lesse dreamed he of this church-way he since fell into . ( f ) cottons letter from new-england to his friends at boston , october . . some other things there be , which were i again with you , i durst not take that liberty which some times i have taken : i durst not joyn in your book-prayers . ( g ) ibidem . i durst not now partake in the sacraments with you , though the ceremonies were removed . i know not how you can be excused from fellowship of their sins , if you continue in your place . while you and some of my other friends continue with them , i fear the rest will settle upon their lees with more security . the wise-hearted that left their stations in israel , i doubt not , were some of them , if not all , useful and serviceable men in their places ; yet they did themselves and their brethren more good service in going before their brethren , as the goats before the flocks , jere. . . then if they had tarried with them to the corrupting of their own wayes . chro. . , . antap. p. . after his going into new-england , and falling into the church-way there , and sending over letters into england about the new way , presently after these letters began the falling off and questioning communion in our churches . ( h ) antap. p. . one of you , to wit , master goodwin was so ingaged in his thoughts of one of the ministers of new-england , to wit , master cotton , by whom i am sure , he was first taken off , that he hath said , there was not such another man in the world again . ibidem , p. . one of you told some friends , that he had found out a form of church-government , as far beyond master cartwrights , as his was beyond that of the bishops . master williams examination of master cottons letter , p. . some of the most eminent amongst them have affirmed , that even the apostles churches were not so pure , as the new english churches . ( i ) vide supra . f. ( k ) antap. p. . he hath had his errours , and i refer you for proof to his discourse about cleering the doctrine of reprobation . see the preface of doctor twisse his answer . ( l ) the short story in the preface , par . . what men they saw eminent in the countrey , and of most esteem in the hearts of the people , they would be sure still to father their opinions upon them , and say , i hold nothing but what i had from such and such a man. ibid. p. . she pretended she was of master cottons judgement in all things . ( m ) williams examination , p. . some few yeers since he was upon the point to separate from the churches there , as legal . ibidem , p. . how could i possibly be ignorant as he seems to charge me , of their estate , when being from first to last in fellowship with them , an officer amongst them , had private and publike agitations concerning their estate with all or most of their ministers . ( n ) short story , preface , p. . by this time they had to patronise them , some of the magistrates , and some men eminent for religion , parts , and wit. ibidem , p. . master wheelwright had taught them , that the former governour and some of the magistrates then were friends of christ and free-grace , but the present were enemies . the former governour never stirred out but attended by the serjeants with halberts or carrabines , but the present governour was neglected . ibid. p. . after that she had drawn some of eminent place , and parts , to her party , whereof some profited so well as in a few moneths they out-went their teacher . ibidem , p. . vpon the countenance which it took from some eminent persons , her opinions began to hold up their heads in the court of justice . ( n . ) ibidem , p. . it was a wonder , upon what a sudden the whole church of boston , some few excepted were become her new converts , and infected with her opinions . ibid. preface , p. . in the church of boston most of these seducers lived . ibid. p. . the court laid to her charge , the reproach she had cast upon the ministery in this countrey , saying that none of them did preach the covenant of free-grace but master cotton . she told them that there was a wide difference between master cottons ministery and theirs ; and that they could not hold forth a covenant of free-grace , because they had not the seal of the spirit . ibidem . p. . all the ministers consented to this , except their brother the teacher of boston . ibid. p. . master wheelwright being present , spoke nothing , though he well discerned that the judgement of the most of the magistrates , and near all the ministers closed with the affirmative . ibidem , p. . albeit , the assembly of the churches had confuted and condemned most of these new opinions , and master cotton had in publike view consented with the rest ; yet the leaders in these erroneous wayes , stood still to maintain their new light ; master wheelwright also continued his preaching after his former manner ; and mistresse hutchinson her wonted meetings and exercises ; and much offence was still given by her , and others , in going out of the ordinary assemblies . when ( mr. wilson ) the pastor of boston began any exercise , it was conceived by the magistrate that the case was now desperate , and it was determined to suppresse them by civil authority . ( o ) apologetical narration , p. . we had likewise the fatal miscarriages and shipwracks of the separation , whom you call brownists , as land-marks to forewarn us of these rocks and shelves they run upon . cottons letter to williams , pag. . i said that god had not prospered the way of separation , because he hath not blessed it either with peace among themselves or with growth of grace . the lord jesus never delivered that way of separation to which they bear witnesse , nor any of his apostles after him , nor of his prophets before him . we do not come forth to help them against jehovah ; this were not to help jehovah , but satan against him . we cannot pray in faith for a blessing upon their separation , which we see not to be of god , nor to lead to him : it is little comfort to the true servants of christ that such inventions of men are multiplied . ( p ) answer to the thirty two questions , p. . whether is the greater number , these that are admitted to church-communion , or these that are not , we cannot certainly tell . ( q . ) plain dealing , p. . here such confessions and professions are required , both in private and publike , both by men and women , before they be admitted , that three parts of the people of the countrey remain out of the church , so that in short time , most of the people will remain unbaptised . ( q . williams of the name heathen , p. . nations protesting against the beast , no papists , but protestants , may we say of them that they or any of them may be called in true scripture sence , heathens , that is , the nations or gentiles , in opposition to the people of god , which is the onely holy nation ? such a departure from the beast in a false constitution of national churches , if the bodies of protestant nations remain in an unregenerate estate , christ hath said they are but as heathens and publicans . ( q . ) plain dealing , p. . there hath not been any sent forth by any church , to learn the natives language , or to instruct them in our religion first , because they say they have not to do with them being without , except they come to hear , and learn english . ( r ) williams of the name heathen , p. . for our new-england parts , i can speak it confidently , i know it to have been easie for my self , long ere this , to have brought many thousands of these natives , yea , the whole countrey to a far greater antichristian conversion , then ever was heard of in america . i could have brought the whole countrey to have observed one day in seven : i adde , to have received baptism , to have come to a stated church meeting , to have maintained priests , and forms of prayer , and a whole form of antichristian worship in life and death . ( s ) ibid. p. . wo be to me , if i call that conversion to god , which is indeed the subversion of the souls of millons in christendom , from one false worship to another . williams key unto the language of america , p. . to which i could easily have brought the countrey , but that i was perswaded , and am , that gods way is first to turn a soul from its idols , both of heart , worship , and conversation , before it is capable of worship to the true god. ( t ) short story , p. . many good souls were brought to waite for this immediate revelation ; then sprung up also that opinion of the indwelling of the person of the holy ghost . ibidem , preface , p. . that their own revelations of particular events , were as infallible as the scripture . ( v ) short story , preface , pag. . sin in a childe of god must never trouble him . trouble in conscience for sins of commission , or for neglect of duties , sheweth a man to be under a covenant of works . ( x ) short story preface , p. . a christian is not bound to the law as the rule of his conversation . ( y ) ibid. p. . no christian must be pressed to duties of holinesse . ( z ) short story preface , p. . their leaders fell into more hideous delusions , as that the souls of men are mortal like the beasts . ( aa ) short story , p. . these who are united to christ , have in this life new bodies , and two bodies . ( bb ) ibid. she knoweth not how jesus christ should be united to this our fleshly body ; these who have union with christ , shall not rise with the same fleshly body ; and that the resurrection mentioned in cor. . . is not meant of the resurrection of the body , but of our union here in this life . ( cc ) ibid. p. . we are united to christ with the same union that his humanity on earth was with his deity . that she had no scripture to warrant that christs manhood is now is heaven ; but the body of christ is his church . ( dd ) ibid. preface , p. . you shall see a litter of ninty one of their brats hung up against the sun , besides many new ones of mistresse hutchinsons . ( ee ) ibid. multitudes of men and women were infected before they were aware . ( ff ) ibid. preface , p. . they had some of all sorts and qualities in all places , to defend and patronise them : almost in every family , some were ready to defend them as the apple of their own eye . ( gg ) vide supra . n . ( hh ) short story preface , pag. . they would appear very humble , holy , and spiritual christians , and full of christ . ( ii ) ibid. they would deny themselves far , and speak excellently . ( kk ) ibid. they would pray with such soul ravishing affections and expressions , that a stranger could not but love and admire them . ( ll ) ibid. they lifted up their opinions by guilding them over with the specious termes of free-grace , glorious-light , gospel-truths , holding out naked christ . ( mm ) vide supra . ll. ( nn ) preface , p. . o their boldnesse , pride , insolency , the disturbances , divisions , contentions they raised among us , both in church and state , and families , setting division betwixt husband and wife ! ibid. p. . and seeing a spirit of pride , subtilty , malice and contempt of all men that were not of their minde breathing in them , our hearts were sadded , and our spirits tyred . ( oo ) ibid. p. . their followers in admiration of them , would tell others , that since the apostles times , they were perswaded none ever received so much light from god , as such and such had done , naming their leaders . see also before h. ( pp ) short story , pag. . she said it was revealed to her long since in england , that all the pack of the ministers there were antichristian , so that she durst hear none of them , after master cotton and master wheelwright were once gone ; for they could not preach christ , and the new covenant . ( qq ) preface , pag. . the faithful ministers of christ must have dung cast in their faces , and be no better then legal preachers , baals priests , popish factors , scribes , pharisees , and opposers of christ himself . ( rr ) vide supra . n . ( ss ) preface , p. . the magistrates were achabs , amazia's , enemies to christ , led by satan . ( tt ) ibid. these were enemies to christ ; herods , pilates , scribes and pharisees , yea , antichrists ; and advised all under a covenant of grace , to look upon them as such : and with great zeal did stimulate them to deal with them as such , and alleadged the story of moses that killed the egyptian , and left it barely so . ( vv ) ibid. it was a wonder of mercy , that they had not set our common-wealth and churches on a fire , and consumed us all therein . ( xx ) preface , pag. . they had some of all quality to defend them , some of the magistrates , some gentlemen , some schollers , some of our captains and souldiers , some in military trainings . ( yy ) short story , p. . they made full accompt the day had been theirs . ( zz ) master williams in his discourse to me , assured me hereof . ( aaa ) short story , p. . vnder their conduct , the old serpent had prepared such an ambushment , as in all reason would soon have driven christ and the gospel out of new-england , ( though to the ruine of the instruments themselves , as well as of others ) and to the repossessing of satan in his ancient kingdom . ( bbb ) preface , p. . mistresse hutchinson being big with childe , and growing towards the time of her labour , brought out not one , but thirty monstrous births or thereabouts at once , none at all of them of humane shape . ( ccc ) ibid. mistresse dyer brought forth her birth of a woman childe , a beast , a fish , and a foul , all woven together in one , and without an head . ( ddd ) ibid. though he that runs may read their sin in these judgements , yet , behold the desperate hardnesse of heart in these persons , and all their followers ; they turned all from themselves upon the faithful servants of god that laboured to reclaim them , saying , this is for you ye legalists , that your eyes might be further blinded by gods hand upon us in your legal wayes , that you may stumble and fall , and in the end break your necks in hell , if ye imbrace not the truth . ( eee ) ibid. p. . these persons with many others infected by them , went altogether out of our jurisdiction into an iland , and there they live to this day most of them , hatching and multiplying new opinions , and cannot agree , but are miserably divided into sundry sects and factions . ( fff ) mistresse hutchinson being weary of the iland , went from thence with all her family , to live under the dutch , neer a place in the map called hell-gate . ( ggg ) there the indians set upon them , and slew her and all her family ; her daughter , and her daughters husband ; and all their children , save one that escaped . some write that the indians did burn her to death , withall that belonged to her . i never heard that the indians in these parts did commit the like outrage upon any other . ( hhh ) vide kkk . ( iii ) ibid. p. . they grew also many of them very loose in their practises ; for these opinions will certainly produce a filthy life by degrees : as no prayer in their familes , no sabbath , insufferable pride , frequent and hideous lying ; and some of them became guilty of fouler sins then all these , which i here name not . cottons third sermon , . vial , pag. . the calamities of the countrey are from god ; he takes away all ; whether by our pride , that we must have every new fashion , and be like the men of the world , in houses , apparel , and the like ; or daintinesse , that we must have our varieties , though it cost never so much , and no matter what followeth , though it eat up our estates . the lord hath made use of our folly , and pride , and daintinesse , our idlenesse , and covetousnesse . idem . . vial , pag. . we know that in england there is no such unfaithful dealing , and hollow heartednesse ? no such bitternesse between christians . what will befal your posterity , they will degenerate out of measure , by the unfaithfulnesse of your lives , and the unrighteousnesse of your promises . ( kkk . ) short story , p. . the midwife , one hawkins , was notorious for familiarity with the divel , and now a prime familist : the most of the women who were present at mistresse dyers travel , were suddenly taken with such a violent vomiting , and purging , without eating or drinking of any thing , as they were forced to go home ; others had their children taken with convulsions , which they had not before , nor since , and so were sent for home : so that none were left at the birth , but the midwife and two other ; whereof one fell asleep at such time as the childe died , which was about two hours before the birth : the bed wherein the mother lay , shook so violently , that all who were in the room perceived it . ( kkk . ) ibid. p. , . then master cotton told the assembly , that whereas she had been formerly dealt with for matter of doctrine , he had according to the duty of his place , being the teacher of the church , proceeded against her unto admonition : but now the case bring altered , and she being questioned for maintaining of untruth , which is matter of manners , he must leave the businesse to the pastor master wilson to go on with her ; but withal declared his judgement in the case from that in the revelation , ch . . that such as make and maintain a lie , ought to be cast out of the church ; and whereas two or three pleaded that she might first have a second admonition , according to that in titus . . he answered , that that was onely for such as erred in point of doctrine ; but such as shall notoriously offend in matter of conversation , ought to be presently cast out , as he proved by ananias and saphira , and the incestuous corinthian . ibid. p. . it was observed that she should now come under admonition for many foul and fundamental errours , and after he cast out for notorious lying . chap. iv. the carriage of the independents in holland , at roterdam , and arnhem . the fruits of this way in holland , are not much sweeter then these we have tasted in new-england . all the time of their abode there , they were not able to conquer to their party more then two congregations ; and these but very small ones , of the english onely : for to this day , i have not heard of any one man of the dutch , french , scottish , or any other reformed church , who have become a member of any independent congregation . their first church in holland was that of roterdam , which master peters ( a ) ( not the most settled head in the world ) did draw from its ancient presbyterial constitution , to that new frame which it seemeth he also learned by master cottons letters from new-england . this church became no sooner independent , then it run into the way of such shameful divisions as their mother at amsterdam had gone before them . their pastor master peters , was soon weary of them , or they of him ; for what causes themselves best know ; but sure it is , he quickly left them , and went for new-england . the church was not long destitute of pastors ; for about that time master ward and master bridge came over to them from norwich , where they ever had lived fully conform , without any contradiction either to episcopacy or ceremonies , onely they withstood bishop wrens last innovations ( b ) . so soon as they came to roterdam , without any long time of adveisement , they conformed themselves to the discipline which master peters had planted ( c ) ; they renounced their english ordination and ministerial office , joyning themselves as meer private men to that congregation , which afterward did choose and ordain both of them to be their ministers ( d ) . it was not long before master simpson also came hither from london , and renouncing also his ordination ( e ) , joyned himself as a private member with them . then did the spirit of division begin to work among them , and so far to prevail , that master simpson malecontent with master bridge , for hindering the private members of the flock to prophesie after the brownists way , did separate himself and erect a new congregation of his own ( f ) : betwixt these two churches , the contentions and slanders became no lesse grievous then those of amsterdam betwixt ainsworth and johnsons followers ; and in this much worse , that they of roterdam abode not at one schism ; but after master simpsons separation , broke out again into another subdivision . master bridges congregation was so filled with strife , so shameful slanders were laid upon his own back , that displeasure did hasten the death of his wife ( g ) , and did well neer kill himself , making him oft professe his repentance that ever he entred into that society ( h ) . as for master ward , his ministery became so unsavoury to that people , that they did never rest till judicially by their own authority alone ( for presbytery they had none , and master bridge did dissent from that act of unjust oppression ) they had deposed master ward from his pastoral charge ( i ) . this act was much stumbled at by divers who were fully perswaded of master wards integrity , and at last by the intercession of some from the church of arnhem he was restored to his place ; but the ground of the controversie was no wayes touched : for when the four commissioners from arnhem , master goodwin , master nye , master laurence , and another , had met in a chamber of a private house in roterdam , with some members of that faulty congregation ( k ) , and so made up their famous assembly , which the apologists are pleased to equal , if not to prefer to all the assemblies they ever had seen ( l ) : whether that national synod , wherein master nye had seen the flowre of the scottish nation enter into the covenant with very great devotion : or this great assembly at westminster , where he and his brethren oft have seen sitting the prince elector , the most noble members of both houses of parliament , the prime divines of all england , the commissioners of the church of scotland . that assembly , i say of roterdam , did not so much as touch the main question ; they drew a thin skin over the wound , but durst not assay to lance it to the bottom . for did they ever rebuke , or so much as once speak to the people of that congregation , for usurping a tyrannicall authority to depose their pastor . did they tell master ward of his siding with master simpson , against master bridge , in the matter of prophesie ? did they ever attempt to cognosce on the great scandal , the ground of all the rest , master simpsons separation ? did they make any hearty and solid reconciliation betwixt master ward and the church ? it seems the assembly was wiser then to meddle with evils , which they found much above their strength to remedy . master ward found himself after his restitution in so pittiful a condition with his new friends , that he left their company ( m ) . the two churches were irreconcileable , till both master bridge , and mr. simpson had removed their stations to england ; and even then the concord could not be obtained , till the dutch magistrate had interposed his authority ( n ) : neither by this means could master simpsons church be perswaded to return to master bridges , till for their meer pleasure they got that congregation to remove one of their prime members , without the alleadging of any cause but their own peremptory will and satisfaction ( o ) . when by so much a do these two divided churches are brought together , it may be much doubted , if their union shall long continue . certainly , it seems not to be so cordial , as that of the two lately divided , and now reunited churches a● amsterdam . for among these of roterdam , not onely the grounds of the old division do evidently remain , but also the seeds of a new breach do appear above the ground . the liberty of prophecying , which master simpsons ( now master simons ) congregation did require , is not obtained in the way they desired it ; for they are not permitted to prophecy in the congregation , nor upon the sabbath day , nor in the place of publike meeting : onely in a private place , on a week day , where some of the church who please do meet ; they have liberty to exercise their gifts . on the other part , what master bridges ( now mr. parks ) church did require , i mean a presbytery for government in the congregation , cannot be obtained . for however , they professe the lawfulnesse and conveniency of ruling elders , and of a consistory for discipline ; yet it hath so faln out that for many yeers they have had none , neither are like in haste to have , unlesse the grumbling of master parks and his friends threatning a new breach , do force them at last to the use of that ordinance . but that which threatneth not a schisme alone , but a total dissolution of that congregation , is the pest of anabaptism , which begins of late much to infect them ( p ) . it is true , the pastors do their best to reclaim all their members from that errour ; and when they finde themselves not able to prevail , give good words and assurances of a full and brotherly toleration ; for as they scruple not to give the hand of fellowship to the brownists of amsterdam ( q ) ; so will they not cast out any from their church for denying of pedobaptism , if the dissenting and erring party be pleased to remain peaceably amongst them : but here is the pitty , when the independents have declared their greatest readinesse to tolerate and entertain in their churches , both the rigid separatists , and the anabaptists ( r ) ; yet the most of those are unwilling to stay , but are peremptory to separate from the independent churches as more corrupt then that they with a good conscience can abide in them , though never so much tolerated and cherished . as for their church at arnhem , howsoever their small intercourse with others , during their abode in that remote corner , and their taciturnity of their own affairs , makes their proceedings to lie under a cover ; yet so much of their wayes is come to light upon divers occasions , as will not be very inductive and alluring of indifferent spirits , to tred in their footsteps . first , we finde them greater admirers of themselves and proclaimers of their own excellency then is the custome of modest and wise , though the best and greatest men . they think it not enough to anoint their masters and friends of new-england with excessive praises , as men who have not been matched by any of the saints since the dayes of abraham ( s ) ; but they are also bold to sound out to themselves in print in the ears of both houses of parliament , a commendation much above the possible merit of any so small a number of men in the whole world . the synod of roterdam they equal to the most solemn national assemblies of either or both kingdoms ( t ) . this exceeding great worth upon whose head must it fall , but either alone or far most principally upon the members of the church of arnhem ? for that synod did consist of no other but the two doctors of that church , and the two elders thereof , together with master bridge , and the members of his church . these last were present in that synod as persons challenged , and guilty of a grievous scandal ; so to them in that action , but a small praise can be due : wherefore , the supereminent excellency of that meeting , must fall upon the commissioners of arnhem , the onely persons which in that meeting were void of offence , and free from challenges . to themselves therefore it is alone , or at least above all others , that they ascribe the superlative praises of that synod . in that same place they stick not to take to themselves the honour of so great sincerity as any flesh in the world not onely hath at this present , but possibly can attain in any following age ( v ) . we wonder the lesse to hear them canonize their colleague master archer after his death , among the most precious persons who ever trod upon the earth ( x ) . this self-overvaluing seems to be the ground why they cry out of their very moderate afflictions as of great calamities ; they ingeminate to the parliament , over and over , their persecution , their poverty , their miserable exile ( y ) ; when they who understand the case , give assurance , that not one of ten of the most prosperous ministers of the whole world , in the time of their greatest sunshine , do live in more wealth , ease , honour , and all worldly accommodations , then these poor miserable exiles did enjoy all the time of that which they call their banishment ( z ) . my next observation upon that church , is , that an humour of innovating at least , if not a spirit of errour , did much predomine among them . to passe by that wantonnesse of wit , which in their books , and discourses doth much appear , whereby they attribute without fear , to a number of scriptures , such new and strange senses as before them were never heard of : we finde them pleasing themselves in divers doctrines , which no reformed church doth assert for truth , yea , their own brethren , both of new-england , and of roterdam , and of amsterdam , do reject as errours . they are not content with some few little touches of chiliasm , which yet master cotton tells us are but fleshly imaginations ( aa ) : but they run themselves over head and ears in the deepest gulph of that old heresie . the glimpse of sions glory preached at a fast in holland by t. g. ( which common report without any contradiction that i have heard declares to be thomas goodwin ) averrs , that independency is a beginning , or at least a neer antecedent of christs kingdom upon earth ( bb ) : that within five yeers christ is to come in the flesh ( cc ) ; and by a sword of iron , to kill with his own hand the most of his enemies ( dd ) ; and thereafter to passe over a thousand yeers ( ee ) as a worldly monarch ( ff ) with his saints : who shall live with him all that time in all sorts of fleshly delights ( gg ) . master archer the onely pastor that ever they had , whose praises they sound forth so loud in their apologetick , would perswade us of the same , and more grosse stories ( hh ) . master burrows in his late sermons upon hosea , runs in the same way ( ii. ) neither is this all the new light that did shine forth in the candlestick of arnhem ; but there also master archer giveth forth , for the comfort of his hearers , without the reproof so far as yet we have heard of any of his colleagues , that god is not onely the author of sin ( kk ) , but also of the sinfulnesse , the very formality , the anomy , the ataxy , the pravity of sin ( ll ) . a doctrine which all protestants ever did abhor as high blasphemy ; and which , the assembly of divines , with both the houses of parliament , did condemn as such ; appointing master archers book for that worst heresie of the libertines , and grossest blasphemy of the antinomians , to be solemnly burnt by the hand of the hangman ( mm ) . there was also another sparkle of new light brake up in that church , wherein one of their doctors doth so much delight to this day ; that not being content to have holden it out in holland , he is said to have preached it over and over in the most solemn assemblies both of scotland and england ; that it is a duty incumbent to all who would be perfit , to know god as god , without christ , without the scripture , in notions abstracted , not onely from all grace , but from all scripture , and from christ ( nn ) . i dare not affix unto this , the late doctrine of some seraphick jesuites and monks , wherein they have extravagated in their lent sermons , so many absurd and heretical senses , as some very learned and good men have done in print without any answer ( oo ) ; yet i must professe , if it be a truth , it is a very metaphysical one and much transcending my shallow understanding . in that church also the doctrine of extreme unction was so far brought back , that they began to annoint their sick with oyl ( pp ) ; taking it as an ordinance of christ , and a kinde of a sacrament for the people , at least a holy ceremony , no lesse of divine ▪ institution then ordination and imposition of hands were for officers ( qq . ) also , they set on foot another religious ceremony in their congregation , the holy apostolick kisse ( rr ) . and as if all these innovations had not been sufficient , they begun to put down all singing of psalms , and to set up in their place their singing prophets , making one man alone to sing in the midst of the silent congregation , the hymns which he out of his own gift had composed ( ss ) . and this as i am informed by some who have been present , is now the settled practice of the remainder of the church of arnhem . master edwards layes to their charge , not onely that their principles lead to that horrible errour which 〈◊〉 of their followers maintain , the mortality of the sou● 〈◊〉 but also , that their cheif doctors had preached , both is 〈◊〉 and england , without the rebuke of any of their fr● 〈…〉 of the saints go not after death to the heavens ( ss● ) . 〈…〉 same place , the pastor of arnhem , without the reproof o● any of his party to this day , so far as ever i heard , doth take away , and deny , that heaven and that hell which all christians before him did ever beleeve ; and in the place thereof , gives us new heavens and new hells of his own invention : he tells us confidently , that no soul before christs ascension , did ever enter into that place which we commonly call heaven , neither ever shall enter there , if you except christ alone , unto the last day : that all the souls of the godly remain in a place of the higher region of the air , or at highest in the element of the fire ; that enoch and elias , that the soul of christ , before the resurrection , and the soul of the good theif , went no higher ( ss . ) he tells us , that the place of the damned before the last judgement , is not any infernal fire , but some prison in the low region of the air , or at lowest , in some place of the sea. after the day of judgement , he makes hell a very large place ; the whole elements , the heavens of the planets and of the fixed stars , yea , the whole heavens , except that wherein god and the angels do dwell , being all turned to their first matter , to him is hell : with such fine new speculations do the independent pastors feed their flocks ( ss ) . i have heard also one of their doctors deliver it as his opinion , that it was expedient for the minister in preaching to have his head covered ; and the people in time of preaching to sit uncovered : but in the holy communion , that it was expedient the minister should celebrate that sacrament uncovered unto the people covered . i do not deny my suspition of the spirit of these men , who are not affraid in so short a time , to vent such a multitude of strange novelties . but the clearest memento which god hath given us to beware of the wayes of that church , is , their bitter and shameful contentions among themselves , which , if not stopped by the churches dissolution , might long before this day have produced as foul effects as any of the former . a part of this story , and but a part of it , you may read in that unanswerable book of master edwards , where at length , you will see how their new fancies brought them to so bitter publike contention , and irreconcileable strife , as made their people confesse their doubting of the truth of their way ( tt ) ; and their principal doctor , master goodwin , to avow his inclination to desert their society , and leave their church ( vv ) . the testimonies . ( a ) anatomy of independency , pag. . that independent church at roterdam , was formerly under presbyterial government , and conformable to the dutch churches , and had onely begun to decline in master peters his time . ( b ) antap. p. . master bridge and master burrows were men judged conformable , till the yeer of bishop wrens visitation , and the sending down of his injunctions to norwich . ( c ) ibid. master bridge fell suddenly into the church-way , as the short space between his suspension at norwich and his being received into a church at roterdam , and thereupon , his first letter to some of his old friends in norwich will fully shew . ( d ) anatom . pag. . they , all renounced their ordination in england , and ordained one another in holland ; first master bridges ordained master ward , and then immediately master ward ordained master bridges . ( e ) antap. pag. . master simpson after some time of beholding the order and way of the church at roterdam , desired to be admitted a member , and was upon his confession received in . ( f ) ibid. master simpson stood for the ordinance of prophecying , and that the people on the lords day should have liberty after the sermon to put doubts and questions to the ministers . mr. bridge opposed : yet he yeelded so far , that the church should meet on a week day , and then they should have that liberty ; but this would not satisfie master simpson ; whereupon the difference increased , and master simpson would abide no longer , but quitted that church : and with the help of a woman , whom master bridge called the foundresse of master simpsons church , set up a church against a church . ( g ) mistresse bridge laid these bitter differences and reports so to heart , that they were a great means of her death . ( h ) ibid. whether master bridges weaknesse and distempers were not occasioned by the divisions and wicked scandals raised upon him , as well as by the air of roterdam , himself knows best . ibid. p. . vpon master simpsons renting from the church , and setting up a church against a church , under mr. bridges nose ; and upon wicked reports raised about master bridges , there grew that bitternesse , evil speakings , and deep censurings , deadly feuds amongst these ministers and their churches , as never was more betwixt the jews and the samaritans . master bridge confessed to me , there were not such sharp tongues , nor bitter divisions as these . anatom . p. . of these reproachings master bridges hath found notable experience at roterdam , to the tyring out of his spirit amongst them there , in so much as he hath been often heard to affirm , that if he had known at first what he met with afterward , he would never have come amongst them , nor being amongst them , have given them such liberty as he had . ( i ) antap. p. . master ward , master bridges colleague and old friend at norwich , was deposed from his ministery , and office by master bridges church , for frivolous matters . ( k ) antap. p. . i much wonder how you can call the meeting of master goodwin and master nye , with two gentlemen more , calling master bridge with the rest of that church supposed to be delinquents , such a solemn assembly . ( l ) apol. naration , p. . the ministers of the church offended , with other two gentlemen of much worth , members thereof , were sent as messengers from that church , and at the introduction , and entrance of that solemn assembly ; the solemnity of which , hath left as deep an impression upon our hearts of christs dreadful presence , as ever any we have been present at . ( m ) antap. p. . i desire to know whether master ward after he was restored , did , as formerly , officiate in that church , and how long ; and whether master bridge and he continued as fellow●ministers ; and whether between them two , and between the church and master ward , there was that mutual carriage that ought to be between fellow-ministers , and ministers and people . ( n ) anatom . pag. . the way of vnion of th●se churches could never be found till the magistrates authority and command found it . ( o ) anato . p. . these two churches being of late commanded by the magistrates of roterdam to unite again in one , and that church whereof master simpson was minister , being unwilling to joyn to the other , unlesse some members thereof should be cut off first , especially one ; and the church whereof that party was a member , being willing to gratifie the other in this , and yet professing and attesting as an act of the whole church by writing , that all the time he had been a member , his conversation had been without offence : yet their teacher was forced as himself confessed with grief of heart , having nothing to except against the person , to urge him to take his dismission from the church . ( p ) ibid. adde hereunto the defection of some of their members to anabaptism ▪ and how apt others of them are to be made a prey therein , more then the members of other reformed churches , as late instance hath manifested , some having professed master simpsons principles have made them anabaptists . ( q ) anatom . p. . they cannot shew us such a fraternity between them and any reformed church , as i am ( and i beleeve truely ) informed , master simpsons church ( whether by him or after his time by master ●imons , i have not enquired ) entered into with th●se of the ●eparation at amsterdam , by a mutual covenant and agreement to own each other . i beleeve it to be by vertue of that covenant , that some of their members , not officers of the church , do publikely preach in master canns pulpit at amsterdam . ( r ) antap. p. . i can tell you how some of you who have not churches here in london , go to separate churches to partake of the lords supper . ibid. p. . instance hath been given me particularly by a great friend of yours now in london ; that when some of you have come to amsterdam , you never would go to master herrings , a good old nonconformist , but you have gone to master cann the separatist , and to his church . ibid. for their going to the brownists , and conversing with master cann more then us , that is undeniable . ( s ) apol. narration , p. . whose sincerity in their way hath been testified before the world , and will be unto generations to come , by the greatest undertaking but that of our father abraham out of his own countrey , and his seed after him . ( t ) vide supra . l. ( v ) apol. nar. p. . in this inquiry we looked upon the word of christ as impartially and unprejudicedly , as men made of flesh and blood are like to do in any juncture of time that may fall out . ( x ) ibid. p. . we lost some friends and companions , our fellow-labourers in the gospel , as precious men as this earth bears any . ( y ) apol. nar. p. . when it pleased god to bring us his poor exiles back again . ibid. p. . which was as great an affliction to us as our former troubles and banishment . ibid. p. . consider us as these who for many yeers suffered even to exile . ( z ) antapol . p. . how dare you affirm that for your consciences you were deprived at once of what ever was deer to you ? were not your wives , children , estates , friends , and lives dear to you ? had you not all these with you , and did you not in the netherlands live in the best places , in much plenty , ease , and pomp ? what great deprivation is this of what ever is dear , for men to take their own times , and to go in summer , with knights , ladies , and gentlewomen , with all necessaries , into holland , and there to take choice of all the land , and with wives , children , friends , and acquaintance , free from the fears and possibilities of vexation from the spiritual courts and prisons , to enjoy all plenty and freedom as you did ? many would have been glad , and still would be , to be so exiled into holland , and to be able to spend there two or three hundred pounds per annum . ( aa ) cottons . vial , pag. . i dare not take up such carnal imaginations , as that christ shall come bodily , and reign here upon earth . ( bb ) glimpse of sions glory , p. . if god have such an intention to glorifie his church , and that in this world , what manner of persons ought yee to be , because ye are beginning this despised work , gathering a church together , which way god will honour ? certainly , the communion of saints , and independency of congregations , god will honour . ( cc ) daniel . . from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away , there shall be . dayes ; what is the meaning of this ? a day is usually taken for a yeer . this abomination of desolation was in julians time in the . yeer ; now reckon so many yeers according to the number of the dayes , it comes to . and it is like to be it , as any that can be named . but it is said , blessed is he that comes to the . dayes , that is , fourty five yeers more added ; it shall begin in the . but it comes not to full head till fourty five yeers more . ( dd ) ibid. in the epistle , take this rule , that all texts of scripture are to be understood literally , except they make against other scriptures , or except the very coherence of the scripture shew it otherwise . ibid. p. . indeed , if we be put upon allegorical senses , we may put off any scripture ; but if we take them literally , why should we not ? ibid. p. . christ is described in the . of the revelation , with his garments dyed in blood , when he doth appear to come and to take the kingdom ; when he appears with many crowns upon his head , that notes his many victories . ibid. p. . the promise that is made revel . . he shall rule them with a rod of iron , and as the vessels of a potter they shall be broken to shivers : what shall we make of this ? ( ee ) ibid. p. , . the raigning with christ . yeers , is not meant of raigning with him in heaven , but it must be meant of jesus christs coming and raigning here gloriously for ▪ yeers . ( ff ) ibid. p. . what shall we make of this , except there be a glorious raign of christ with the saints ? christ is said to make them kings , so as to have power and dominion in the world . ( gg ) ibid. p. . there is no reason why that of the . of matth. v. . i will drink it new with you in my fathers kingdom , may not be taken litterally . ( hh ) archers personal raign , p. . i call this last state of his , monarchical , because he will govern as earthly monarchs have done , that is , universally over the world in these dayes , known , and esteemed ; and in a worldly , visible , earthly glory , not by tyranny , oppression , and sensually , but with honour , peace , riches , and whatsoever in and of the world , is not sinful , having all nations and kingdoms doing homage to him , as the great monarchs of the world had . ( ii ) burrows upon hosea , p. . these are the new heavens and the new earth that are to be created ; and this is meant of the church plainly : for the text , verse . speaks of building houses , and inhabiting them , and of planting vineyards , and eating the fruit of them upon these new heavens , and this new earths creation . ibid. p. . and literally we are to understand many scriptures that tend this way concerning the fruitfulnesse of the earth , and the outward external glory , that then shall be in the creatures . ( kk ) archers comfort for beleevers , p. . god may as truely and easily , have a will and hand in , and be the author of sins , as of afflictions . ibid. we may safely say , that god is , and hath an hand in , and is the author of the sinfulnesse of his people . ( ll ) ibid. p. . the fear of some of these inconveniences , hath made divines not to acknowledge so much of god in sin , as is in sin : they have erred on the other hand , and made sin more of the creature and it self and lesse from god then it is : they grant that god is willing sin should be , and that he permits it , and orders circumstances about its production , and hath an hand in , and is the author of the physical or moral act , in , and with which sin is ; but the essence of sin , that is , the pravity and ataxy , the anomy and irregularity of the act , which is the sinfulnesse of it , god hath no hand , neither is he any author at all thereof . this opinion goes wrong another way , and gives not to god enough in sin . let us imbrace and professe the truth , and not fear to say that of god , which he in his holy book saith of himself , namely , that of him and from his hand , is not onely the thing that is sinful , but the pravity and sinfulnesse of it . ( mm ) a short declaration of the assembly , by way of detestation of the abominable and blasphemous opinion . the order of the house of lords runs thus , complaint being this day made to the lords in parliament , by the assembly of divines , that a certain blasphemous and heretical book , intituled , comfort for beleevers , is printed and published , being written by john archer ; their lordships much abhorring the said blasphemies , do award and adjudge , that the said book shall be burnt by the hand of the common hangman . ( nn ) doctor stewarts duply to m. s. second part , pag. . not long since i heard one of the ringleaders of the independents sect deliver this doctrine in a sermon at the abbey of westminster . viz. that to a saving knowledge of god , it sufficeth not to know him in the book of nature ; or secondly , as revealed in the holy scriptures ; but that we must also know him as abstract from his mercy and all his attributes . ( oo ) ibid. if i know god abstracted from his mercy , i know him out of christ , and out of the gospel ; for god in christ and in the gospel , is not abstract , but concrete with mercy . if god be considered as abstract from all his attributes , it is no more a knowledge of god , but some idol of the independent brains . ( pp ) antap. p. . master good win did anoint a gentlewoman ( whose name i conceal ) when she was sick , and she recovered after it , say they . ( qq ) ibid. anointing the sick with oyl , was held in that church of arnhem as a standing ordinance for church-members , as laying on of hands was a standing ordinance for church-officers . ( rr ) ibid. p. . i propound it to you , whether a little before your coming over into england , some members of the church of arnhem , did not propone the holy kisse , or the kisse of love to be practised by church-members ? nay , whether by some persons in that church was it not begun to be practised ? ( ss . ) ibid. p. . a gentleman of note in that church did propone in the church , that singing of hymns was an ordinance ; which is , that any person of the congregation exercising their own gifts , should bring an hymn and sing it to the congregation , all the rest being silent , and giving audience . ( ss . ) antap. p. . some of arnhem hold strange conceits : daily the independent churches like affrica , do breed and bring forth the monsters of anabaptism , antinomianism , familism , nay , that huge monster and old fleeing serpent of the mortality of the soul of man. ( ss . ) ibid. p. . i have been told of some odde things preached by one of you five , both in england and holland , and of some points preached in the church of arnhem , never questioned there and since printed not very orthodox ; as for instance among others , that the souls of the saints do not go to heaven to be with christ . ( ss . ) archers personal raign , p. . this objection supposes the souls of the dead saints to be in the highest heavens , which is not so : it is likely the souls of the dead saints are not in the highest heavens , but in a middle place , which is meant in the new testament by paradise ; into this paradise went christs soul , and the theifs , which was not heaven . it s most probable that christs soul never went into the highest heavens , till his body went also . ibid. none but christ , and so none before christ , ever entered the highest heavens . the way to heaven was never opened till christ the high priest entered body and soul into it . the highest heavens never had but one man into them , namely christ , nor shall have till the worlds end . ibid. p. . if you ask where this place of paradise is : i answer , it must be below the highest heavens ; therefore , surely it is in the region or element of fire , where the sun and stars are , or in the highest region of the ayr. ( ss . ) archers personal raign , p. . at the day of judgement the wicked shall be sent with the devil unto hell , which hell shall not be that which is now called hell , but another ; for the hell that now is , is but a prison , and not the place of execution : at the last day this hell that now is , shall cease . this hell which is at present , to be sure is in some of the places of the air , or the waters , and not in the earth : but the hell which shall be the everlasting torment of all the damned , shall be all this lower and visible world. all the places of the earth , water , air , sun , moon , stars , and the fire , called the heavens , and the earth . the things which god immediately made out of nothing , shall never change : as the highest heavens , and the angels in them , and the souls of men , and this chaos called the earth ; but all other things being made out of something , even out of this earth or chaos , they shall after a time change ; and so all this world shall come to an earth or chaos again . god in time did make two places , heaven and earth , immediately out of nothing , to be eternal places , the one of joy , the other of torment . thus you see when hell was made but it was quickly covered , and shall not be uncovered ; till christ do it at the last day . ( tt ) antap. p. . the gentleman censured , brings an accusation against master nye , charging him with pride , want of charity , &c. and this being brought before the church , continued in debate about half a yeer , three or four days in a week , and sometimes more , before all the congregation ; divers of the members having callings to follow , they desired leave to be absent . master goodwin oft professed publikely upon these differences , if this were their church-fellowship , he would lay down his eldership ; and nothing was more commonly spoke among the members , then that certainly for matter of discipline , they were not in the right way , for that there was no way to bring things to an end . ( vv ) vide supra . tt . chap. v. the carriage of the independents at london . you have gotten a taste of the fruits of this tree , as it grows in new-england and holland : when it is transplanted to old-england , consider if the grapes of it be any thing sweeter . these five last yeers , the chief of that party , both from arnhem , roterdam and new-england , have kept their residence at london , to advance , by common counsels and industry , their way , in these days of their hopes . a full account of their courses in that place cannot be expected , so long as many passages concerning them lie in the dark , and the end is not yet come . but three things seem to be clear , which make their way at london no more lovely then in the places mentioned . first , they have been here exceeding unhappie in retarding , and to their power crossing the blessed reformation in hand . secondly , they have pregnantly occasioned the multiplication of heresies and schisms , above all that ever was heard of in any one place in any former age. thirdly , they have occasioned such divisions in the state , that , had it not been for the extraordinary mercies of god , the parliament and all that follow them , had long ago been laid under the feet of their enraged enemies , and the whole isle , long before this , totally ruined . as for the first , the reformation of religion , so much wished for by all the godly for so many yeers , all know it could never have been attained without the help of an assembly of divines : who opposeth the necessary mean , cannot be taken for a friend of the end. the assembly , the necessary means of reformation , was for a very long time hindred , by the diligence of the independent party , to be called ( a ) : and when , to their evident grief and discontent , the parliament had voted its calling , they may remember their extraordinary industry to get ▪ it modelled according to their principles , both in its members and power ( b ) ; to have it an elective synod onely for advice , to consist of so many of themselves and of their favourers as was possible , not any known divine of any parts in all england of their opinion , being omitted . how cautious they were by great slight of hand to keep off so many of the old puritan unconformists , and how much more enclinable towards men of episcopal and liturgick principles , themselves do know . this their underhand-working before the sitting of the assembly , was seen but by few : but so soon as the synod did sit , it did then appear to the whole company who were the men who made it their work and greatest studie to keep off , by their endlesse janglings , the assembly from concluding any thing that might settle the distracted church ( c ) ; so that to this day , after two yeers time and above , in more frequent and learned sessions then every we read of in any assembly since the world began ( d ) , there is nothing at all set up for the comfort of the afflicted kingdom . their aversenesse to the assembly doth appear , not onely in their opposition to its calling , in their retarding of its proceedings , but in their pressing of its dissolution . i do not speak of the huge contumelies which some of their party have poured out upon the face of that most reverend meeting , in a number of very wicked pamphlets , which to this day were never so much as censured , though the authors , by name and sirname , are complained of in print . but that which i speak of , is the expresse article of the independent petition , desiring the parliament in formal terms , according to master peters dictates , to dissolve the assembly ( d . ) . had either the popish faction , or the episcopal party , or the malignant courtiers procured the continuance of our woful anarchie , our anger would have been greater then our grief or shame . but when the mercies of god now for some yeers have removed the papists , prelats and courtiers so far from us , that by word or deed they have not hindred us in the least measure to heal the diseases of our church at our pleasure ; that her wounds to this day should be multiplied , and all kept open to drop out her best blood , alone through the obstinacy of our brethren , though we compresse our indignation , yet we cannot but be oppressed with a great measure of grief , nor can we chuse but to be covered with confusion and shame , when we are forced to taste the most bitter fruits of our brethrens principles , though denied by them in words , yet ingenuously avowed by their friends in amsterdam , and constantly practised in new-england ; to the uttermost of their power ( e . ) , they must oppose the building of a church any where in the world , if it be not after their patern : that as in new-england no presbyterial church on any condition may be tolerated , so in old-england no presbyterial church must ever be erected , if all their skill and industry can hinder it . such a reformation , though expresly according to the national covenant , to them is a deformation which they cannot wish , much lesse pray for or endeavour , but with all their strength must crosse it , as a corruption unsufferable , where they have power . it s plain and demonstrable , that their principles and way have forced them to oppose the reformation in hand , and will ever force them so to do , till they lay new grounds , and be changed in the sence of their erroneous minde . however , the actions of our brethren did proclame loud enough their intentions to delay so long as they were able , the setting up of any government ; yet when this evil is become so grosse and palpable , that all in words do disclaim it , and they who most do procure it , do most in shew abominate it , it seems a little strange that some of their divines are now begun in print expresly to own it , and in print to perswade the delay of this work ( e . ) . it must be a heavie guiltinesse to be a powerful instrument of keeping two so great kingdoms as england and ireland without the fold and hedge of all ecclesiastike discipline for divers yeers together , especially in the time of a devouring war. how many thousand souls have perished by this means in their ignorance and profanesse , who in a wel-governed church might have been reclaimed ? unto this great misery , another great unhappinesse addeth much weight . beside their marring of the begun-reformation , they have occasioned the perishing of some millions of poor souls , by the unheard-of multiplication of heresies and schisms ( f ) . i believe no place in the world , for this mischief , is now parallel to london . amsterdam long ago is justified ; that city hath transmitted hither the infamy of her various sects . now upon whom shall this blame be fastne● 〈◊〉 ? it is well known that the sects , at the time of the independents return hither , were inconsiderable , in regard of that which now they are by their means . it was their work to bring people into distaste with the way of all the reformed churches : this by their labours was made vile in the eyes of the multitude ; and people once having leaped over that wall within the which all the protestant churches have dwelt in safety , by all the skill of their first misleaders could not be holden from running farther away ; as in new-england independency was a mother to anabaptism , antinomianism , familism , and many more heresies , we need not wonder to see it any where bring forth the like brood : but hereof indeed do we wonder , that in so short a time this way should change as it were its nature so farre to the worse . in holland and new-england , independency , so soon as it had found and discerned the young brats of anabaptists , antinomians or familists in her bosom , it was her custom incontinently to fling them away as bastards : but independency at london hath learned not onely to beget , but to cherish such children when they are brought forth . not onely the churches of new-england , but the very amsterdam-brownists have ever been zealous to cast out of their society the heretikes and schismatickes we speak of : but here in london it is far otherwise . we have heard that many of the independents here , so soon as they have fallen into anabaptism or other errours of the time , have quickly of their own accord run away and separated from the independent congregations , as polluted , as false , as no churches : but that ever any of the london-independents did cast out of their churches any man or woman for anabaptism , antinomianism or any other errour , we never heard . by the contrary , independency here is become an uniting principle ; it hath kept our brethren in the midst of all their bitter jarrs with the reformed churches abroad , and the presbyterians at home , in a great entirenesse and familiarity with all the sectaries that pleased to draw neer them . they have by their debates and dissents laboured to hinder the assembly from giving the least advice to the parliament to take any order with the most absurd of the sectaries , when complained upon for their greatest enormities ; yea , they have preached and printed divers tractates for a full liberty to all sects ( g ) . that so soon they should have run thus far out , we could never have believed , if our own eyes and ears had not been our perswaders . as for the third apple we observed on their tree , the endangering of the state , it is no lesse visible then any of the former . if there were no more but the keeping of the church-wounds so long open , the health , yea the life of the state might justly be feared , from this ground alone , by all who know the sympathy of these twins , and the inseparable interest of these two much-united companions . but beside the keeping of the church unsetled , the growth of schisms , how pregnant a cause it is of a states ruine , we need no other witnesse then the declaration of their brethren in new-england ( h ) . we are made here to believe , that the anabaptists and the antinomians are so tame and harmlesse creatures , that there is no danger of any violence from their innocent hands . if it be so , the general court at new-boston hath been extremely unjust , who professed their wel-grounded apprehension of a total subversion not onely of all their churches , but of their civil state also , from a far lesse number of these sectaries then are here among us ; and avowed to the world their necessity to banish out of that countrey the leaders of that dangerous faction , whether men or women , whether church or states-men , and to disarm many of their followers , upon much much smaller provocations and lighter grounds of suspition then by the words and deeds of their kinsfolks have been offered lately unto this state. ( i ) what more might be said of the london-independents practices upon the state , readily may come to the world ere long by a much better pen. i for causes at this time abstain totally from writing on this subject . the testimonies . ( a ) antap. p. . i believe upon good grounds , and so do many more , you never took any great content or joy in the thoughts of the assembly , but have done your utmost to delay it and to put it by . god knows your hearts , and men some of your speeches about the meeting of this assembly : but seeing it could not be helped , and that you could not keep it off by all your friends , &c. ( b ) antap. p. when an assembly was first agreed upon , there were not many more ministers and scholars of your way in the kingdom who were capable of such a service , then you got in to be members of the assembly ; so that you had as much advantage as your condition was capable of , yea , and favour too . see the orders of the assembly , which give no power at all of jurisdiction to the few selected divines , but alone a power of advice . ( c ) antap. p. . i am confident had it not been for you five , and a few more , the reformation intended had been in a far fairer way then now it is . brethren , there are many complaints , and that by your dear friends , of the retarding the work of reformation by your means . you are the remora to the ship under sails , you are the spoaks in the wheels of the chariot of reformation . parliament complains , assembly , city , countrey , all complain of the work retarded , and all is resolved into you five principally . i could tell you many particular passages , but you know what i mean. in a word , all the prelates and the papists cannot , nor do not hinder so much the work of reformation , as you five members of the assembly . ( d . ) the scribes books carry already above . sessions . ( d . ) prynnes fresh discovery , p. . they lately conspired together to exhibite a petition to the parliament for present dissolving the assembly , and sending them home to countrey cures , to prevent the setling of any church government , to which end they met at the winde-mill tavern , where john lillburn sat in the chair , and master hugh peters suggested the advice , which was accordingly inserted in the petition . ( e . ) answer to . quest . p. . if that discipline which we here practise , be the same which christ hath appointed , and therefore unalterable : we see not how another can be lawful . so if a company of people shall come hither , and set up another , we cannot promise to approve of them in so doing . ( e . ) burtons vindication , p. . if the better heed be not taken , there may be more haste to a reformation then good speed ; a reformation therefore will necessarily require longer time yet , that we may not go blindfold about it . see also saltmarsh his queres . ( f ) bastwicks second part of independency ▪ postscript , p . before the independents apparition in our horison , there were but three or four sects known among us , and they were few in number , and well conditioned ; but out of the independents lungs are sprung above fourty several sorts of stra●lers , which before their coming over were never heard of among us . john lillburn related it unto me , and that in the presence of others , that returning from the wars to london , he met fourty new sects , and many of them dangerous ones , and some so pernicious , that howsoever , as he said , he was in his judgement for toleration of all religions , yet he professed he could scarce keep his hands off them , so blasphemous they were in their opinions ; so that he gathered that these were now the last days , wherein so many heresies abounded : there are innumerable diabolical sects , and so prodigiously impious , that it is not for a christian to name their opinions ; and most of them , if not all , were first independents , and such as separated from our congregations as unholy , and were of their new gathered churches , and followers of their ministery . ( g ) a short answer to adam stewarts second part , supposed to be written by john goodwin , p. . and . is it not an ungodly thing to suffer men to be of any religion ? answer . no , for both our saviour and the apostles , and the primitive christians did the same : ought we not at least to keep our different opinions , and religion unto our selves , in obedience to the civil magistrate that commands it ▪ answer . no , because its better to obey god then man ; but if jesuited papists , and other subtill hereticks be suffered ; will they not seduce many unto their erroneous by-paths ? answer . though a toleration of erroneous opinions may gain some to satan , yet truth being therewith to be published and approved , will in all probability , not onely gain so many more to god ; but any one thus wonn to the truth , is worth thousands of these that fall from it . ( h ) cottons model of church and civil power related in the bloody tenent , p. . the falls of common-wealths are known to arise from their diminishing the power of the church , and the flourishing of common-wealths is observed to arise from the vigilant administration of the holy discipline of the church . ( i ) master prynnes fresh discovery in the epistle . their libels , actions , speeches , proclaim a plotted , avowed confederacy among some furious ringleaders of these independent sectaries ▪ against the parliament , assembly , and all their resolves in matters of religion . that which confirms me in this opinion , is , first the new seditious covenants which the members of some independent congregations enter into , to adhere , defend , maintain , to the uttermost of their power , and contend for even to blood , the establishment of that independent form of church government which themselves have set up , and to oppose the presbyterian . bastwicks second part , p. . this that i now say , i speak upon very good ground ; among these they think they may confide in , they affirm they will not be beholding to the parliament , nor any body else for their liberty ; for they will have it , and ask them no leave . they have the sword now in their hand , and they think their party strong enough to encounter any adverse party : and they professe they care not how soon they come to cutting of throats , and speak of nothing but the slaughtering and butchering of the presbyterians : and therefore there is just cause given us to think we may expect better quarters from the very enemies , then from the independents , who call us in their pulpits brethren , but in their hearts hate us . ibid. postscript , p . the presbyterian government not suiting with their humour , they abhor it , and all such as endeavour to establish it ; and wish rather that all the old trumpery were brought in again ; and professe , they had rather have the government of the prelates : yea , some of them have not been ashamed to protest unto prelatical priests , that before the presbyters shall rule over them , they will cut all their throats , and joyn with them for the reestablishing of the hierarchy . ibid. p. . professing , that all such preachers who preach and write the least thing in opposition to their opinions , ought to be hanged : and had they the power in their hands , they would trusse them up , as many can testifie . ibid. p. . they boast of such a party in the kingdom , if their own words may be credited , as they now think by the sword to be able to make their own laws ; and have been frequently heard say , that they had many abbettours in the assembly and both houses of parliament , and in many parts through the kingdom , besides in all the armies : and they were all resolved to have the liberty of their consciences , or else they would make use of their swords , which they have already in their hands . ibid. p. . i know not any independent in england , except one man and his wife , that do not as maliciously and implacably hate the presbyterians as the mortallest enemy they have in the world . chap. vi. an enumeration of the common tenets of the independents . it is not easie to set down with assurance the independents positions , both because they have to this day declined to declare positively their minds ; as also because of their principle of mutability whereby they professe their readinesse to change any of their present tenets . how unwilling they are to declare their mind , may appeare by their obstinate silence , and refusing to answer any of these books that put them most to it ; also , by hiding of their opinions from their brethren , who most earnestly have prest their declaration . these divers yeares the ministers of london have been dealing with them for satisfaction herein , and once by importunity obtained a promise under their hand of a full and free declaration , but these foure yeares they have eluded that promise ( a ) . mr. apollonius in name of all the churches of zealand with all earnestnesse did intreat this duty of them ( b ) , but all in vaine . when upon any occasion they have been moved to make any kind of narration of their way , it was ever with an expresse proviso of their resolution to keep up as yet from the world their positive tenets ; so they conclude their apologetick ( c ) , so they begin their keyes ( d ) . and now when the indignation both of the assembly and parliament , and of many more , was likely to break out upon them for this , that after so long time no plaine dealing hath been seen in them , at last they have engaged themselves to declare their minds ; and yet since that their publike engagement there are six months past , and the worlds expectation of understanding at last their mind , is still suspended . and though that their declaration should come out to morrow , yet with what assurance can we take any thing therein for their constant and settled tenet , so long as they professe it to be one of their cheife principles to be so loose and irresolute in any thing they maintaine for the time , that they are ready to leave it , and upon occasion to embrace the contrary ( e ) ? so long as this skeptick irresolution is avowed , there is no hope , there is no possibility of any fixed constancy . these things considered no man is able to set down their full mind , nor any one of their positions whereto any dare assure they will firmely stand ; only the chiefe of their singularities which they have been pleased to let come abroad , and have not to our knowledge as yet revoked , we shall set down as they come to our thoughts . it hath been hitherto their earnest desire to decline the infamy of brownisme , and it was the charity of their brethren to distinguish them from that sect , under the new name of independents : importing their chiefe difference from us to stand not in the point of separation , which is our proper quarrell with the brownists , but alone in the point of church-government , which against all the reformed churches they ma●ntaine to be independent , that is , not subject to the authority and jurisdiction of any superiour synod . this was thought to be their proper distinctive and characteristicall tenet , till of late we finde them passionately reject the name of independents , and tell us , that the dependency or independency of their congregations will bee found one of their least differences and smallest controversies . in this our long mistake , we are content to be rectified ; albeit our charity should not be reproved ▪ who being ignorant of their willingnesse to differ from us in any thing higher or deeper then the dependency of congregations upon the authority of superiour assemblies , did put upon them no other name then that which implyed this difference alone . it seemes that this title is not only the most reasonable , but the most innocent and inoffensive note of distinction , which themselves could have chosen : the terme not being invented by any of their ill-willers , but by their own cheife leaders ( f ) , who did think that word most proper to notifie their tenet of government ; and since some name must be given to every eminently differing party , it seemes none lesse irritative could bee fallen upon , then that which most properly did signifie the chiefe matter in controversie . but now finding they avow their chiefe differences to lie elsewhere , for my part i could yeeld to them to have the name of independents buried , did i not feare it behoved to be changed with another title , which would much more displease : for since they are gone beyond the question of independent government , and now doe question the constitution of our churches so farre as puts them on a necessity of separation , and in this doe place the chiefe of their controversies with us : if a sect may be denominated either from the author or principall matter , as they make no bones to print us calvinians ( g ) and presbyterians ( h ) : i cannot conceive why they ought not to take it in good part , if when the name of independents is laid by , they have in place of it , the title of brownists and separatists fastned upon them . of their owne accord they take upon them openly the halfe of the thing we alledge professing themselves to lie halfeway off us , towards brownisme ( i ) avowing the truth to consist in this their middle way : but whosoever considers better of the matter , will find , that however in some things they incline to a middle way ; yet in the chiefe and most , they come up close to the outmost line of brownisme , and in many things doe expatiate so much beyond it ▪ that in place of the semi-separation they mention , they may be justly argued to have drawn upon themselves the blot of se●qui-separation and more also : how true this is , it will appeare to any , who will be pleased to make a paralell of the forementioned tenets of the brownists with these of the independents , which here are subjoyned . first , the worst and uttermost tenet of the brownists for which they cook to themselves , and had bestowed upon them by others the stile of separatists , was their doctrine and practise accordingly , to separate from the churches of england : in this the independents goe beyond them . for beside that the practice of both is the same , both actually separating from all the congregations of england ; the grounds of the brownists separation were a great deale more reasonable , then that of the independents , albeit neither of them be good and sufficient : for the brownists did build their separation on the tyranny of bishops , on the superstition of the ceremonies and service-book ; on the grosse , avowed , and neglected profanenesse of the most in every congregation : if these corruptions had been removed , so farre as i have read in any of their writings , they would no more have separated . but the independents having no such stumbling blocks in their way , bishops and books being abolished , and a barre set up in every congregation to keep off from the sacrament , every scandalous and ignorant person , notwithstanding they will yet separate . the more unjust and lesse cause they have so to doe , their separation must bee so much the worse , the grosser and more inexcusable schisme . what they say for the avoyding of this challenge , will not hold water ; while they tell us that they are not separatists , because they avow the church of england to be a true and gracious church , that the ministry of it , is true and saving . they should consider that the brownists , when the fit of charity commeth upon them , say large as much as all this , as before from their own words we have shown ( k ) : also that some of the independent party have gone as farre as that which they confesse makes the brownists to be justly called schismaticks ( l ) ; but however , suppose their allegation were true , it doth not excuse and diminish , but much encrease the fault of their separation : for it is a greater sinne to depart from a church which i professe to bee true , and whose ministry i acknowledge to be saving , then from a church which i conceive to be false , and whose ministers i take to have no calling from god , nor any blessing from his hand . neither are they cleared from the blot of schisme by their countenancing the english assemblies , by their preaching and praying therein : for beside that they doe no more in this then mr robinson hath taught them ( m ) ; they should remember they teach their schollars , that preaching , prayer , psalmes , and all things they doe in the english congregation , are no acts of church fellowship ( n ) : that none of them doth import any church membership , nor any ecclesiastick communion : but are such which without scruple they can dispence to very pagans . but we would intreat them to declare if they would be willing to receive any sacrament in the english congregations , or if they will be content to bee under any part of their discipline , if they will be either members or officers in any of our churches . i see indeed the apologists professe their participation of baptisme in our congregations , but besides that , the brownists will professe so much of themselves ( o ) ; yet how this is consistent with the constant practice and doctrine of the independents , i confesse my understanding is too blunt to conceive . for however in new-england , they give the right hand of fellowship to the brownists congregations ( p ) ; and at london they are said to goe to the brownists sacraments ( q ) : and we did never heare that either in england or holland , they refused any to be a member for their beliefe of rigid separation , or anabaptisme ; nor censured any of their members for falling into these errours : yet in formall termes , they doe deny the most gracious of their brethren to live beside them in new-england in the presbyteriall way of the old non-conformists ( r ) : yea , in print they avow that whoever refuseth their tenet of independency , were they otherwise never so orthodox and pious , they ought not to be admitted to the sacraments , nor enjoy any church priviledge ( s ) : as people who cannot be wholly , but at most are in part only converted : yea , as such who must be taken for anti-christian spirits , for enemies to christ and his kingdome ( t ) : neither have i heard that any of them now for many yeares ▪ have either celebrated to others or received themselves the sacraments in any english church . and when it was propounded that they might take charge in some of the best reformed congregations of england ; with a full assurance of a personall dispensation to them for their whole life , if they would leave but that one intollerable tenet of separation ; to this day they have disregarded that kind and brotherly accommodation ; shewing expresly that in this point of separate congregations they would be tolerated , or nothing else would satisfie their consciences ; beyond this their best friends were not able by their long and earnest endeavours for divers weeks together to draw them one haires-breadth ( w ) : if this be not a more cleare and a more inexcusable separation then was ever yet laid to the charge of any brownists , i professe my utter mistake of the nature of schisme , and desire to be rectified . the next singularity of the brownists , their doctrine of the constitution of the church in matter and forme , the independents have borrowed to the full : and not only enlarged it , but when all other grounds faile , upon this alone they build the necessity of their separation . concerning the matter of the church , the independents have learned all their unjust scrupulosity from the other ; as the brownists require every church member to be a saint , really regenerate and justified , who at their admission have publikely satisfied the whole congregation by convincing signes of their true holinesse : the other requires the same ( x. ) what ever indulgence here the independents professe to give , either to weak ones in whom they finde the least of christ , or to women whom they remit from the congregation to speak more privately in the eldership ( y ● , this is no other then the present practise of the brownists at amsterdam . only we observe , that the independents here go farther from the reformed churches , both in the strictnesse , and in the loosnesse of their satisfactions . the brownists are satisfied with the signes of personall grace , but the independents require more ; they proceed to a triall by a long conversation of the sociable and complying disposition of the person to be admitted , with the spirits of the whole church whereof he is to be a member ( z ) ; without this sutablenesse of spirit they will reject them whom otherwise they finde to be saints ( aa ) . but their chiefe excesse here is in loosnesse . the brownists will not dispence with known errours and sinnes in the members ; they will not admit of anabaptists , of proud , luxurious , contentious people . if they finde any such to have crept in among them , they professe their judgement is for their casting out by censures but the independents will here be more wise for the encrease of their party : and however they will have nothing to do with presbyterians ( bb ) , nor with such people who can live in their confused congregations ; yet they make it their rule to hold out none for any errour that is not fundamentall , nor for any sinne that is not continued in against conscience ( cc ) ; walking according to this rule , they swallow down without trouble the small gnats of anabaptism , and all other sects , who erre not fundamentally , and obstinately , and against conscience : how many sectaries are thus farre guilty , who can determine ? the little spot of luxury in apparell , in diet , and many fleshly delights , of strife , of disdainfull railing , and such other faults ( as are too common in their members ) are of easy disgestion ( dd ) . concerning the other part of the church essence , its forme , their covenant : in this the disciples go much above their master . mr cotton hath perfected by an expresse treatise , this part of brownism ( ee ) , as many others . the covenants of new ●ngland are much straiter then any that ever we heard of at amsterdam . it is true that of late both in old and new england the independents seem much to modify the rigour of their covenant ( ff ) ; but whatever may be said of their profession , i never could learne of their practice , to admit any into their society who gave not full assurance of embracing their whole way , and all their differences from the reformed churches . sure i am , they did never admit any upon easier tearms then lately i my self did hear mr can admit a member into his church at amsterdam ; yet if mr prynnes information be well grounded , they are become at london more rigid in their covenant then ever ; he tells us that now it is their custome to make it a part of their oath to oppugne the government of the reformed churches , and to defend independency with armes and violence , ff . . unto the constitution we may referre the efficient of a church , and the number of its members ; in both the schollars follow punctually their masters . as for the efficient , it is not only the brownists , but the independents also who put the power of gathering churches , and joyning together by covenant in a church way , in the hand of private christians alone , without any officer , or the authority of any magistrate . it is presumption in any minister , if he assay to make up a church , only people must associate themselves into a church , and then create their ministers and other officers ( gg . ) in new england at the erection of a new church , they are content with the presence both of the magistrate and ministers of the neighbour churches ; but they declare that neither is necessary , and that the presence of either gives no authority to the action , and the absence of both detracts no authority from it ( hh . ) that the whole power to gather a congregation and to erect a church is alone in the covenanting persons ( ii . ) as for the number of the members , the independents go as low as the brownists , avowing that seven persons make a full ministeriall and compleatly organized church ( kk ) : nor do they extend the number any farther then the brownists , avowing that no church , except the universall , may have any more members then conveniently can meet and be accommodated in one place for the exercise of all holy duties ( ll ) , not only preaching of the word , whereat thousands may be present , but celebration of the sacraments , and administring all parts of discipline ; to which acts a few hundreds cannot commodiously meet . the independents minde about the gathering and erecting of congregations , may be clearly perceived by their late practice in the sommer islands , wherein they are applauded by the churches of new england , and defended by master white against master prynnes fresh discovery , with a great deale of confidence and high language : there hee justifies the necessity of the dissolution of all the churches in the barmudaes ( which yet he professes were among the best of all the english plantations ; ) there were above people in the isle , who had lived without all controversie with any of their ministers from their first planting till the yeare , when their ministers perswaded by some writs of the brethren of new england , found it necessary to lay down their charges , and become meere private men , denying to administer to their old flocks any ordinance , till three of them entring in a covenant , and thereby becomming a new church , did perswade of the islanders some thirty or forty at most to joyn with them in their new church covenant ; these covenanted persons did chuse one of their old ministers for their pastor , and two others of them for ruling elders , who as gifted men were content to joyne with the pastor in preaching , not only to the church members , but to the whole isle , to fit them to be church members ; but all the three refused absolutely to celebrate any sacrament , or administer any discipline , or do any act of a pastor to any but to the forty named only . all this mr white maintains as just and necessary , and petitions the parliament in print for their countenance and approbation , whereby it seems it is the independents avowed and cleare intention when they have power to dissolve and annull all the churches of england , yea of the world , to spoile all ministers living of their pastorall charge , and all people of all church priviledges , and to erect new churches of their own framing , into which they are to admit at most not one of an hundred of those who now do count themselves christians : all this you may see at length in mr whites very peremptory reply to mr prynnes fresh discovery . leaving the constitution , their chiefe tenets concerne the power of the congregation , so constitute as is said : in this they come up fully to their masters side ; for they give unto their church , that is , their seven covenanted persons , the whole ecclesiastick power , and that independently upon any person under heaven . first , they put it in their hands to create all the officers ; they not only give them suffrages in their election , ( mm ) but the whole power of ordination also ( nn ) , the examination of their pastor in all the abilities requisite for his charge ( oo ) , the laying all the parts of his office upon him , publique prayer , imposition of hands , and what other acts are requisite for a regular ordination , are all performed by one of the people whom the rest have appointed for that end ( pp ) . as they have power to make all their officers , so they have power to unmake them , to depose , and excommunicate all their ministers ( qq ) , to cognosce and finally to determine , without any appeal , in all cases , both in life and doctrine , of all heresies and scismes , of all truths and errours , to order all things belonging to the worship of god , and to do all things else ( rr ) , which other churches ascribe to the most generall assemblies of the most learned divines . upon this passage of power come in the differences which divided the brownists among themselves : whilst iohnson would give all these acts of power to the eldership , and ainsworth would keep them for the congregation ; these same questions vex the independents to this day , and are likely to divide the children as they did the fathers . the most of the new english divines , with ainsworth , attribute the whole ecclesiastick power to the body of the people : unto the eldership they give the preparation of affaires ( ss ) , but the judgement and determination of all doth passe by the plurality of the peoples voices ( tt ) : the power of the keyes they put in the hand not of the presbytery , but of the fraternity ( ww ) , as they speak . and in some places upon the peoples sense of the presbyteries encroaching and feare of their farther usurpation , they have thought it expedient to have no eldership at all , as in amsterdam the brownists , so in rotterdam the independents , for these many yeares have had no ruling elders , and so no presbytery ( xx ) ; but have governed all their affaires by the voices of the people : and why might they not as well live without ruling elders , as their brethren at arnem for divers yeares did live without a pastor ( yy ) the more necessary officer . mr cotton and some others feeling to their small contentment the great and intolerable power of the people over the eldership have begun to fall from ainsworth to iohnson , and to plead the authority of the eldership above the brotherhood , and the necessity of their subjection by divine right to the elders as to their superiours ( zz ) ; yet to salve all , and to please both parties , he maketh the concurrence of the eldership and brotherhood to be both necessary , to be both sine quo non ( aaa ) : whatever authority he gives to the eldership , he maketh it all vaine and frustaneous without the consent of the people ( bbb ) : and notwithstanding all the obedience and subjection he putteth upon the people , yet he giveth to them such a power of liberty , that their concurrence with the eldership in every act of power is not only necessary but authoritative ( ccc ) . he goeth yet one step further in case of the obstinate and incorrigible aberration of the presbytery ; he gives power to the people , albeit not to execute any act of power , yet to separate from the obstinate eldership ( ddd ) , and out of their own number to make new elders , who will be willing to administer cen●ures , and do all else that they conceive to be right . for all this , so farre as we can learne , there is yet no full agreement among them , either in new or old england , in setting the merch-stones of power betwixt the eldership and brotherhood : many schoole distinctions they use , yet by them all they cannot come to concord . the independents here confesse their agreement with mr cotton in the chiefe things wherein he differs from his brethren in new england , and from his owne selfe in his late book of the way of the churches : they applaud much his new invented distinction of the power of authority , and the power of liberty ( eee ) . yet in other things they avow their dissent from him ( fff ) : what these other things may be , they yet have not had leisure to informe us . i hope it be not the extent of church power unto women , and the giving of a power to celebrate sacraments unto private men , which yet are said to be the tenets of some of their friends . it is true , the synod of new england maketh not only the fraternity , but as they speak , the sorority also to be the subject of the private power of the keyes of the kingdom of heaven ( ggg ) ; also we have shewen how they have permitted women to be leaders to their whole churches , and chiefe pastors in church actions of the highest nature : we have good witnesses that a woman was the founder of mr simpsons church at rotterdam ( hhh ) ; that a woman , and that none of the best led away mr cotton , and with him great numbers of the best note in new england , towards the vilest errours , and to the brink of a new separation from all the churches there ( iii ) . notwithstanding all this , none of the independents , either in new england or holland , neither the brownists of amsterdam , did ever give unto any women any publike ecclesiastick power . in this , our london independents exceed all their brethren , who of late begin to give unto women power of debating in the face of the congregation , and of determining ecclesiastick causes by their suffrages , if doctor bastwick be rightly informed ( kkk ) . concerning the power of the sacraments , mistris chidley is permitted to print in defence of the independent cause , without the reproofe of any of that party , so farre as i have heard , that not only pastors but private men out of all office , may lawfully celebrate both the sacraments ( lll ) . however , in these and other things there may be great difference among them in the point of church power , yet that which is the principall point in this head of power , the matter of independency , in it there is a full and perfect agreement among them all . whatever power , whether of liberty or authority , be in the congregation , organicall , or homogeneous ▪ radically or habitually , in the brothehood or eldership , conjunctly or severally ; whatever power it be , or wheresover it be , all of them place it in the congregation , without any subjection to any other superiour ( mmm ) . the word of independency , some of them do much abominate , and yet but some ; for there are of their chiefe leaders this day , who do not mislike it ( nnn ) : but what ever wee speak of the word , the matter which every man did understand by it , is stifly maintayned by them all . in nothing there is greater concord among them then that in the smallest congregations , even of seven persons , the whole ecclesiastick power doth reside absolutely without any dependence upon or subjection to any or all the creatures on earth ( ooo ) . whatever may be sayd of a charitable advice or friendly counsell , or brotherly rebuke , yet if you speak of any authoritative power to censure , all of them avow that the offer of this from all assemblies of a nation , or of the world , is antichristian tyranny ( ppp ) : and for any person in the smallest congregation to receive , or submit themselves to any such censure , were to betray and cast away the liberty wherewith christ hath made them free ( qqq ) . so that it is utterly unlawfull for all the churches of the world to inflict the least censure , or to give the smallest admonition in order to any censure , not only to any congregation , but to any one man therein , suppose he were never so erroneous , never so scandalous ; although he did infect and destroy , not only all the soules of that congregation , but as a common pest did corrupt the churches of a whole nation , or if it were possible , of the whole world ( rrr ) . this strange tenet seemeth to be either the root or the fruit , either the mother or the daughter of all the rest of their errors : the mother and root , because a few persons having locked themselves up within the narrow walls of one congregation , with an independent power , having made themselves uncontroulable by any or all upon earth ; they open a wide doore to any erroneous spirit , to mislead them towards what ever fancy can enter into any cracked braine , without all possibility of any effectuall remedy ; the daughter and fruit , because men who are conscious to themselves of singularities , which they feare will not be liked nor tolerated by others , upon their fond love towards these errours , doe affect such a liberty which may exempt them from all danger to bee ordained by any censure to relinquish these darlings , which they have resolved to keep still in their bosome . the fatuity of this tenet they use to season with the graines of three more sapid positions : first , they grant the being of classicall psesbyteries and synods ( sss ) . secondly , they ascribe to them the censure of non-communion ( ttt ) . thirdly , they allow the magistrate to correct hereticall and shismaticall persons ( www ) . but if they will consider , they shall finde that in none of those positions , they goe beyond the brownists and by them all they doe not any whit cure the disease of independency . for the first , they admit not of any classicall presbytery differing from a synod ; for what ever they speak of their granting gladly unto us all the degrees and subordinations of assemblies which we could wish : yet betwixt a congregationall eldership and a synod , they grant not any interposition of a classis ; or compounded presbytery over more congregations then one ( xxx ) , which kinde of presbytery the reformed churches make the first and ordinary subject of ordination , and of sundry acts of jurisdiction : esteeming it a iudicatory specifically different both from the inferiour eldership of a single congregation and the superiour synod , whither of a shire or a province , or a nation , or of more , or of all nations . besides ▪ that synod whereof they approve , is only a brownisticall one , such as needeth not to be moderated by any preacher ( yyy ) ; at the which any man who pleaseth may be present to debate , and vote decisively ( zzz ) . yea , they goe here much beyond the brownists and their brethren of new-england also ; for they deny that the of the acts , is either a pattern or ground for any synod ( aaaa ) , expresly contrary to mr cottons latest doctrine ; neither will they have any ordinary or set synods , but only occasionall , and when the occasion of a synod commeth , they will have it to be meerely elective ( bbbb . ) : consisting of such persons alone as themselves please to chuse , not only of the churches of their own independent way alone , but also of such only among these as themselves think meet to pitch upon ( bbbb ) : if a classis or synod bee of any other temper , they count it so corrupt and so tyrannicall a court , that they could not countenance it with their presence ; yea , not so much as they would doe an episcopall sea ( cccc ) : the one being much worse then the other : that the brownists independency went ever thus farre i doe not know . as for their sentence of non-communion , it is one of mr cottons new additions to old brownisme ( dddd ) ; which it seemes rather to embitter then sweeten ; for it is a meer humane invention to supply the ordinances of god , which men injuriously have cast away : when they have denied to synods the power of these censures which god hath appointed , and finde themselves straightned by the absolute necessity of the matter , to take up againe either them or their equivalent : they will not be so changeable as to resume the censures whereof god is the author , having once cast them away : but in their place they are forced to finde out some of their own , these their new declarations and abstentions from fellowship and such like new censures of their owne . but which is worst of all , these their new censures if there be any force in them , advance their independency to the highest degree of power : or rather lift it up highly in the aire , and by a repugnancy and contradiction , make it evaporate to nothing ; for this non-communion giveth power to every one , even the smallest congregation , over all the churches in the world it pleaseth to deale with , so farre as to admonish , rebuke , declare against them all , and cast them all out of her communion ( eeee ) . the reformed churches contend only for a power to a great assembly , for censuring a faulty member of a small congregation ; but this non-communion gives to the smallest congregation of any seven persons , the power of sentencing the whole churches and all the assemblies in the world. howbeit , this non-communion , seemes to be contradictory and destructive of that independency which it was invented to salve : for if every congregation bee independent , how shall all congregations be so dependent upon every one , that any the least may inflict this high censure upon the greatest , yea upon all . beside , this non-communion is nothing but the highest straine of separation that ever any brownist aimed at ; it giveth a power for any church to deny communion to all churches , and to live separate without all communion with any church for ever . this produceth an other power of a farther separation , to wit , a power to every member of that separate church upon any grievance not satisfied to separate himselfe , and either live there alone as many do , or to gather a new church , of any whom they finde willing to associate with them : these things are brought not so much for reasons to evert the positions in hand ; as to shew how unfit limitations they are of the extravagancy which appeareth in independency , and how much they runne out beyond the bounds which they pretend to hem in . as for their third tenet of the magistrates concurrence , to second their sentence of non-cummunion , besides that the brownists goe as farre as ever any of them did in this ( ffff ) : we see now that the chiefe of them have recalled the tenet : though all the protestant churches , and none more then they of new-england , doe maintaine the mag●strates power to suppresse errours ; yet this unhappy love towards liberty , whereinto the independent party here among us have lately fallen , makes them to entreat the magistrate to let alone the affaires of religion , though they runne into all the confusion whither satan and his instruments are able to carry them ( gggg ) . if the magistrates feare of god doth stop his eare to such impious petitions , then they flee up very high even to the deniall and decrying of all the magistrates power in matters of religion ( hhhh ) ; which yet the papists in england and the arminians in holland , who have been the greatest pleaders hitherto for liberty , were never bold to impugne ; but of this more hereafter . i hope i have demonstrated that in the point of separation and of the constitution and government of the church , the great and only intended articles of the brownists , our brethren the independents come nothing behind them : sure , in these their conceits they applaud themselves no lesse then the former ; they put in these things the very kingdome of christ : all their opposites , in these fancies , they make them enemies to christs kingdome ( iiii ) : they avow independency to be a beginning , and a part of that glorious kingdome which christ for a thousand yeares is to enjoy upon earth ( kkkk ) . concerning the worship of god and other heads of divinity , whatever crotchets the brownists have fallen into , the independents punctually doe follow the most and worst of them : and if in any they come short , they are sure to exceed in other things more dangerous . first , for the marriage blessing , they applaud the brownists doctrine , they send it from the church to the town-house , making its solemnization the duty of the magistrate ( llll ● ; this is the constant practice of all in new-england : the prime of the independent ministers now at london , have been married by the magistrate , and all that can bee obtained of any of them , is to be content that a minister in the name of the magistrate and as his commissioner may solemnize that holy band . concerning divorces , some of them goe farre beyond any of the brownists , not to speak of mr milton , who in a large treatise hath pleaded for a full liberty for any man to put away his wife , when ever hee pleaseth , without any fault in her at all , but for any dislike or dyspathy of humour ( mmmm ) ; for i doe not know certainely whither this man professeth independency ( albeit all the hereticks here , whereof ever i heard , avow themselves independents ) ; what ever therefore may be said of mr milton , yet mr gorting and his company were men of renown among the new-english independents , before mistrisse hutchinsons disgrace : and all of them do maintaine , that it is lawfull for every woman to desert her husband , when he is not willing to follow her in her church way , and to take her selfe for a widow , loosed from the bond of obedience to him , only because he lives without that church whereof she is become a member ( nnnn ) . concerning the circumstances of the worship of god , they will have nothing determined , but all which scripture hath not determined , to be left so free , that all directories are much against their stomacks . how much they did crosse that gracious and excellent work of the directory for the three kingdoms , and when it was begunne , how long they did retard it ; and after it was brought to an end , through all the mountaines of impediments which they did cast up in its way ; how earnest they were by slight of hand to have put in its preface such phrases as might have altogether made frustrate the use of it , is well known to many : yea , when a directory for the three nations is established by the assemblies and parliaments of both kingdoms , they are bold so farre to slight it , as to write unto the very parliament , that uniformity is but a matter of forme , in the which for peace sake men will come up so farre as conscience can permit , intimating that all our covenanted uniformity must be resolved into the free-will or erroneous conscience of every private man. in the abolishing of the monuments of idolatry , they agree so farre with the brownists , that they will not name the dayes of the week , the months of the yeare , the places of meeting after the ordinary manner ( oooo ) ; yet they make no scruple to use the churches builded in the time of popery , nor of bels though invented by a pope , and baptized with all the popish superstitions ▪ how this doth stand with their principles , i doe not well know , especially with their practice about another circumstance , the church-maintenance . for , the ancient way of maintenance by tythes , or lands , or set stipends , they do refuse , ( pppp ) and require here the reduction of the apostolique practice . they count it necessary that all the church officers should live upon the charge of the congregation , the ruling elders and deacons as well as the pastors and doctors ( qqqq ) ; but all they will have them to receive , is a meer almes , a voluntary contribution , layd down as an offring at the deacons feet every lords day , and by him distributed to all the officers and the poore of the congregation according as they have need ( rrrr ) . this is their doctrin , but it seemes they are weary long ago of its practice . the brownists ( as i heare ) are yet constant to practise what they teach , allowing their ministers for their better supply , and that they may not be too burthensom to the congregation , the use of handy trades . but the independents of new-england have a better provision , not only a proportion of land , but a certayn tax of money layd on by the magistrate , both upon the members of the congregation , and upon all the neighbours , though not received members of any church . ( ssss ) these also of london , arnheim , and roterdam , have been famous for a sufficient care of a set provision , above the ordinary , to the rate of two or three hundred pounds a year ( tttt . ) and lest their income should decrease with too large deduction for the supply of the poore , it hath been their providence to admit none or few poore members of their congregations ( wwww . ) concerning other circumstances , the form of their church , and pulpit , and such like , i have not observed any difference in the meeting-houses of the one at roterdam , and the other at amsterdam . for the parts of the worship , as i take it , there is little difference ; only the independents seem in their administration more to vary the persons ; sometimes they make one to pray , and another to preach , a third to prophesie , and a fourth to dismisse with a blessing ( xxxx ) . in the ordering of the parts of their worship after mr cottons invention , they take it for an apostolick injunction , to begin first of all with a large solemne prayer for the king and the church , applying the words of the apostle against the cleare scope of the text , and all the writers which i have consulted upon it , to this very method of the ordinances , and to this matter of the first prayer ( yyyy ) . after the prayer the doctor proceeds to read and expound : their ordinary practice here agrees with the other , but their doctrine differeth ; for the independents at london grant , that reading by it selfe without exposition , is a divine ordinance , however in their practice they conjoyne both . in preaching they differ from the brownists and us , and joyn with the popish monks ; they will not be tyed to a text of scripture , for the ground of their discourse , but will be at liberty to run out on whatsoever matter they think most fit and expedient for their hearers ( zzzz ) . about prophesying after sermon , they are at a full agreement , permitting to any private man of the flock , or to any stranger whom they take to be gifted , publikly to expound and apply the scripture , to pray and to blesse the people . they permit two or three of these after the end of the sermon to exercise their gifts ( aaaaa ) . when the exercise of the prophets is ended , they use another ordinance of questioning the preachers and prophets by any member of the congregation , about any point of the doctrine ( bbbbb ) ; but this exercise , as also the former , hath proved so unhappy in new england , that gladly there they would be quit of both ( ccccc ) . in the psalms the independents wander wider then their teachers ; some of them will have no songs in the time of publike iudgements ( ddddd ) : others will not permit women to sing in the church ( eeeee ) : but the greatest difference is , that the independents of arnheim did stop the mouthes of all but one , who did sing the hymne which himselfe had composed , in the midst of the congregation for their edification ( fffff ) . in prayer they fall short of their masters ; for however they use no set prayer , yet they are so farre from esteeming of it idolatry , that they professe both set and read prayer to be lawfull ( ggggg ) : the lords prayer they commend to be said even in publike , and they permit private men to read prayer in their families ( hhhhh ) ; in this they have mr robinson for their guide ; yet at london their pactice is constantly to forget the lords prayer . in the sacrament of baptism the independents lay a path-way to anabaptism ; for first they come close up to the most rigid brownists , denying baptism to the most part of christian infants ; yea they will grant it to a very few ; to these alone whose immediate parents are members of their congregation ( iiiii ) , who are a wonderfull poor handfull : all other infants they will have unbaptized till they come to the yeares of understanding , and declare not only their actuall faith and holinesse , but their subjection to the kingdom of christ , that is to their independency : they will have no stipulation made for the infants education ; they dispute much for dipping , though they deny not the lawfulnesse of sprinkling ( kkkkk ) . but that which maketh men most afraid for their anabaptism , is their open deserting all the reformed churches , and the brownists themselves , in three grounds . first , they deny the federall holinesse of christian children ; against this tho. goodwin did preach , and deny openly that common distinction of protestants of reall and federall holinesse , requiring in every infant to be baptized a reall and inherent sanctity . if this ground be maintained , i see not how anabaptism , or else arminianism , will be avoyded ; for if this reall holinesse above foederall , be the great ground of baptism , and this cannot be asserted in the judgement of verity of any infant ; for whatever we say of the judgement of charity , yet in the judgement of truth , and with the certainty of faith wherewith we must assent to every scripture , who can say that any particular infant is holy , and so that any infant should be baptized ? or if we can say in the judgement of truth , that every baptized infant is really sanctified , as it seems mr robinson hath taught mr goodwin , if mr rathband understand right the p. of rob. justification ( kkkkk ) , the arminians have wonne the field ; for no man doubts but many baptized infants , even in their way , do fall away totally and finally from whatsoever holinesse can be supposed to be in them . if these inextricable difficulties did move mr goodwin to stop the presse that it went not on with his sermons against the anabaptists , himselfe doth know . secondly , they esteem not baptized infants to be members of their church before they have entred into their covenant ; till then they hold them from the lords table and all the acts of discipline , as people without the church and not members of it ( lllll ) : if it be so , their baptism was of so small use that well they might have wanted it to the time of their admission to be members . thirdly , they account anabaptism a very tolerable errour ; so farre as ever we heard to this day , they did never so much as rebuke any of their members for it , much contrary to the practice of the brownists , and of their brethren in new england , who ever have removed the anabaptists from their churches , as sectaries of a speciall evill note . we have long observed the great affection of independents here towards them who professed opposition to paedo-baptism , but did never expect to have heard them declare any thing towards the arminian errours of the anabaptists . the lords supper they desire to celebrate at night after all other ordinances are ended ( mmmmm ) ; albeit the brownists now take it in the forenoon . in the persons who do communicate , they are as strict as any of the brownists ; for notwithstanding all that their brethren of new england , and themselves also , and their apology do professe , of their communicating of the sacrament with the rest of the reformed churches , which sometimes also is the brownists profession ; yet it is told them without reply to this day , that in london , however they have admitted brownists and anabaptists to their sacrament , and they have communicated in the brownists congregations ( nnnnn ) ; yet that none of them have ever offered to participate of the holy communion in any other congregation , nor have admitted any to communicate with them who were not of their owne way ( ooooo ) . for the manner of their celebration , they who have seen it , professe it to be in a very dead and comfortlesse way : it is not as in new england , once in the month , but as at amsterdam , once every lords day ( ppppp ) , which makes the action much lesse solemn then in any other of the reformed churches , and in this too much like the daily masses of the church of rome . they have no preparation of their flock before : they are so happy as to have all their members prepared alwayes sufficiently for the lords table , from their first entrance into their church to their dying day ; for all this time there is no catechising among them , this exercise is below their condition , & altogether needlesse in any of their congregations . they will have no sermon in the week before , nor so much as any warning of the communion . this practice of new england , to give warning the sabbath before , is disliked now at london : nor must there be any sermon of thanksgiving after that sacrament : they use not so much as a little application of the doctrine in the sermon before it to that occasion ( qqqqq ) . when they come to the action , there is no more but one little discourse , and one short prayer of the minister ; all the time of the participation , there is nothing in the congregation but a dumb silence : no reading , no exhortation , no psalmes , their people need no such meanes to furnish them in their sacramentall meditations ; they have also learned from the brownists , a double and distinct consecration , one for every element apart . they have another difference from all the reformed , and in a part also from their brethren of new-england . that their conformity with the brownists may bee full , the new-english doe count sitting at a table , not only to bee necessary , but to be a part of our imitation of christ , and a rite significant of divers heavenly priviledges and comforts ( rrrrr ) ; but as the brownists at amsterdam this day have no table at all , as they send the elements from the pulpit ( the place where the minister preacheth , and celebrateth the sacrament ) by the hand of the deacon to all the congregation , where in their meeting house they sit up and down in their severall places : so the independents at london , doe vehemently contend for the needlesnesse of any to come to the table , what ever be the practice of all the rest of the reformed churches : but they will have the holy seales carried from the place where the minister preaches to the people in their pews , or where ever else they have their ordinary places for hearing of the word ; although most easily in their small congregations without any disturbance all might bee brought to the table ( sssss ) . but their maine difference from all the reformed , and greatest consonancy with the brownists , is in this , that as they teach all outward signes of worship in the time of the celebration to be idolatry , and hereupon declare the necessity of all men who will follow the example of the first communicants , to keep on their hats , all the time of this holy action ; so likewise the independents begin to teach their disciples ; for however at amsterdam this day the named doctrine bee not fully practised , the men there covering their heads in the time of the celebration ; but every one uncovering , during the time of their own personall participation of the elements ; yet we are now taught at london that covering is most requisite at the time of participation . that this act is a rite significant to the communicants of their table-honor , and fellowship with christ , also that the minister in all his celebration must be uncovered , and that in sign of his service to the communicants , as the lords much honoured children , sitting covered when they eat of their fathers meat ( ttttt ) . after all the worship is ended , the congregation may not yet be dismissed , but one ordinance more in the end of the day must be attended , the exercise of discipline ; in this the independents come up fully to their masters ; the whole people must be present to heare , judge , and voyce at every act of discipline ( wwwww ) . in any congregation the acts of discipline , when best managed , are very tedious and long , but with them more then anywhere else ; for their contentions are more and more tough , as we may see in the best ruled congregations that ever they had ; that of arnheim and roterdam : if the praise given by the apologists to them be just ; there the exercise of discipline hath bin very tedious : the whole congregation to their extreme wearinesse and fretting , have been forced to lay aside the works of their ordinary calling for many dayes of the week , to attend the iudging of these causes which on the sabbath dayes could not be ended ( xxxxx ) . in the cognition of these causes , every member of the congregation must be satisfied in his own minde concerning every passage of every action ; for they doe not proceed by the plurality of numbred voyces , but with the harmonious consent of all who have right to voyce ( yyyyy ) . and if it fall out that any doe dissent from the most , they appoint in that case paines to be taken for the information of the dissenters that they may consent ; but if these paines prove fruitlesse , and the dissenters refuse to joyn with their brethren , they are declared obstinate , and to have lost the right of voycing for that time ( zzzzz ) . yea , which is worst of all , and which puts these congregations upon the smallest occasions upon unavoydable and remedilesse divisions , they appoint all who continue in their dissent in any matter of weight , to be farther proceeded with for their contumacy ( aaaaaa ) . the publike meetings of the brownists are so long and tedious , that we doe not heare of their stomack for any private ; but the independents are yet for private meetings ; how long they will be in love with them , we cannot say ; for in new-england where they were most in request , their fruits have been very bitter ; these meetings of a middle sort betwixt congregationall and domestick , were the occasion very neere to ruine both that church and state ; for in these it was where under the pretence of religious conference , and re-petition of sermons , false doctrine and wicked calumnies against the most orthodox of the ministers and magistrates , were spread for the renting and ( had not god prevented it ) the destroying of the state both civill and ecclesiastick ( bbbbbb ) . for the present , where they are in gathering of their congregations , these meetings in private houses ( of all who will ) are a very pregnant meanes to steale away men and women from their own pastors ; but if once their gathering of churches were at an end , and their greatest care were for the keeping and edifying of what they had gotten , it is like that then they would be as cautious as now all other churches are , even the brownists and these of new-england , of such meetings which except well moderated and limited , under faire pretences , are exceeding fit to make new divisions , and ever to frame new societies of some , as it were , more select and eminent christians out of the common congregation . concerning the magistrate , the tenets of the independents would bee well considered , because of their open proclamation of their loyalty beyond and above all which the principles of any reformed church will permit them ( cccccc ) . had they magnified never so much their own vertues , without the expresse disparagement of others ; had they put in the ballance with themselves an equall or a double number of the greatest men in any of the reformed churches , who yet would be very ponderous when they lie in the scales against five particular men the authors of that comparison , had they preferred themselves before all the reformed churches , in a casuall & contingent action , not in a maine duty , which their very principles are alledged to diminish ; had they whispered all this in the eares of their friends , and not made a proclamation of it to both the houses of parliament , and that in print to be trumpeted out in the eares of all the world ; it might have been past over with the lesse either observation or offence : but since in so publike a manner they have required the magistrate to believe their great deferences to him and the smaller respect he can expect from any out of their way : it seemeth very necessary to produce , not these particular respects which the reformed churches professe , according to their principles to give unto the magistrate & continually have given according to their professions ( for these are well known to the world long before any of our new censors were in being ) but what these singular duties may be , which the independents above all other men by their principles are forced to performe to magistrates , while they may be at leisure to publish them to the world , i will here present unto them the materialls of some few short observations for that purpose . first , that divers of their party , and those of very eminent note , though miscarrying in other things , yet keeping fast to the way of independency , have denyed to the magistrate all power over any of the godly ( dddddd ) . and others of them with the grossest anabaptists have denyed the lawfulnesse of any magistrate at all ( eeeeee ) . secondly , doe not their principles hold out of the church , and deprive of all christian consolation which flowes from any church priviledge , the farre greater part , if not absolutely all kings , and princes that are this day in the christian world , and have been since the dayes of the gospel , or ever are likely to be upon earth to the worlds end ? how exceeding few of all that are , or have been members of parliament of either house , of all that have been or are magistrates in england , if their principles might be put in practice , would be admitted to the lords table , or yet their children be baptised , or themselves be reputed christians and members of any lawfull church ? thirdly , of these exceeding few kings , princes , peeres , commoners and magistrates of the land , which they could take into their congregations ; how many could have assurance to live any long time in a christian condition as members of a church according to their principles ? since they tell us that they are to excommunicate without any delay , the greatest kings for any fault either in beliefe or life , which doth subject the poorest servants to censure ; how many and frequent these faults may be , it is hard to judge ; but the worst is , when the greatest kings and the chiefe members of parliament without any respect to their dignity , are cast out of the church for themselves and their children , by the peevishnesse or errour , or malice of a few in a small congregation , they have no meanes under heaven to redresse themselves of their injury ; they and theirs must live as pagans out of the church , till they who did cast them out , be perswaded and become willing to take them in ; should all the divines all the assemblies , all the churches of their dominions , see cleerly as the light their notorious wrong ; yet there were no possibility to helpe it by any mortall hand till the injurious congregation it selfe , of its own accord , should be pleased to repaire it . fourthly , they permit none to be magistrates where they have power , not so much as to be a member of their smallest civill courts , except they be fully for their way , and be admitted members of their church , as it hath ever been their practice in new-england to this day ; but the magistrates they admit of , who are of their minde , they debase their power so low as to suspend it all on the will and pleasure of the promiscuous multitude , not only to limit the soveraignty of princes within the bounds of their just lawes , and to confine them unto the counsell of their parliaments , but to bring both them and parliaments and all magistrates to their first originall and makers , to the free will of these whom they use to stile the prophane multitude ( ffffff ) . fifthly , have any of the reformed churches now for an h●ndred yeares and above , given to magistrates such occasion to feare an unjust insurrection , as they in the few yeares of their being have already furnished ? to passe by all their threatnings in this time of confusion ( gggggg ) ( while their strength is yet inconsiderable ) and their mighty endeavours to get armes into their hand to enable themselves with the evident hazard of the whole isle , to doe what they please by force ( hhhhhh ) . let men only look over to the fruits of their principles in new-england , not many yeares agoe there , upon a very small , and so farre as i know very groundlesse suspition , to have somewhat of their government altered by the king contrary to their patent , they did quickly purchase and distribute armes among all their people , and exact of every one an oath for the defence of their patent against all impugners whosoever ; mr williams opposition to this oath as he alledgeth , was the cheife cause of his banishment ( iiiiii ) . what principles could these be , that moved the same people a little after to doe and say such things for which their magistrates did disarme so many of their church members , not only elsewhere , but even at boston , upon fear of an apparent insurrection for the killing of the principall magistrates , and overturning the whole state of that countrey ( kkkkkk . ) few magistrates will hereafter confide in these principles which saved not the governour and generall court of new-england , from extreme danger by the members of mr cottons congregation at new boston . sixthly , doe the independents principles give to the magistrate any ecclesiastick power at all ? will they submit to his civill power in any ecclesiastick affaires ? will they be hindered by the magistrates sentence , unlesse it be executed with violence to erect congregations within his dominions at their own pleasure ? will their principles permit them upon the command of king and parliament , to refuse to take into their congregations the members of other parish churches without a dismision , or take and admit upon the magistrates command within their number , any whom they account unfit for membership , or to recall for the magistrates pleasure any of their church censures ? have they not very lately declared to the parliament , that they esteem all matters of religion free and exempt from their sword and power ? that all matters both of worship and doctrine , that all things of the mind as they speak , or matters of opinion , and all matters of outward forme wherein uniformity is required according to our covenant , are so farre to be ruled by every mans own conscience his own light and reason ▪ that the parliament is not in any such matters to interpo●e their power ? whither this bee the true sence of their openly avowed and repeated letters to the parliament it selfe , let every intelligent man consider who reads the words ( kkkkkk ) . seventhly , are any of the reformed churches or any churches or persons of the whole world so injurious to magistrates as their principles force them to be , who ●poyl christian kings and parliaments of their whole legislative power ? they will have us to beleeve , as good divinity , that it is not only unlawfull for church-assemblies to make ecclesiastick canons , but that it is alike unlawfull for any prince or state to make a civill law , ( llllll ) that the placing of a legislative power in kings or parliaments , is to usurp the property and prerogative of god. ( mmmmmm ) these principles cannot be very favourable to the state , which at one stroke annihilate all the acts of parliament that now are in force , either in this or any other kingdom , and make it impossible ( if they were beleeved ) to have any more in any place of the earth , to the worlds end . look back upon what i have cited from the chiefe of the brownists writings . i grant the new english polishers of brownism doe not expresse their tenets in tearms so hugely grosse ; yet see how neare they come to them in substance , when they tell us that no magistrate may make any lawes about the bodies , lands , goods , liberties of the subject , which are not according to the lawes and rules of scripture , scripture being given to men for a perfect rule , as well in matters of civill iustice , as of devotion and holinesse ( mmmmmm ) ; and if so , then they must make it as unlawfull and contrary to the scriptures perfection , for any man to make lawes in matters of righteousnesse and of the state , as in matters of holinesse and of the church . that beside things in themselves good or evill , which scripture determines by its lawes expresly , things of an indifferent nature , whereupon the most of civill laws are made , must be regulated according to the scripture rules of piety , charity , and conscience , so farre that the expediency and reason of the law must ever carry and convince the conscience of the subject : that no man is obliged to the obedience of a civill law in a thing never so indifferent by the authority of the law-giver , but every man whose conscience is not convinced of the piety and charity of that law , is free from all obedience and subjection thereto : thus farre mr cotton ( mmmmmm . ) eightly , what men besides them have made so bold with kings and parliaments , as not only to break in pieces their old lawes , and to divest them of all power to make new ones ; but also under the pretext of a divine right , to put upon their necks that unsupportable yoak of the iudiciall law of the ●ewes , for peace and for warre , without any power to dispence either in addition or substraction ( nnnnnn ) ? i grant this principle of barrow is limited by mr cotton to such iudicials as do containe in them a morall equity ( nnnnnn ) ; but this morall equity is extended by him to so many particulars , as williams confesses the whole iudiciall law to be brought back again thereby , no lesse then by the plaine simple and unlimited tenet of the rigidest brownists ( nnnnnn . ) ninthly , doth any reformed church appoint their ministers to be members of the highest civill courts , with power of voiceing in the election of the supream magistrate ? ( oooooo . ) do any divines but theirs , since the bishops were abolished , joyne themselves as companions with the magistrates , to draw out of scripture a body of civill lawes for the government of the state ? ( pppppp . ) tenthly , did ever any divines but theirs , so evidently mock the magistrate , by instructing him according to their own interest , as it were from heaven , to contradictory practises , in new-england where the magistrate is in their way , to perswade him the necessity under paine of sinne and judgement , to kill all idolaters , and false prophets , to destroy whole cities ; men , women , and children , who are seduced by a false prophet ( qqqqqq ) ? making a path-way by this meanes to the slaughter , not only of all papists and hereticall sects , but also of many good protestants , who to the brownists are idolaters for the reading of prayer , and obstinate enemies of the kingdom of christ for their mislike of independency , according to the open profession of the prime independents ( rrrrrr . ) their doctrine in old england , where the magistrate is out of their way , is diametrally opposite to this : for here they make it a theomachy ( ssssss ) , a fighting with god to deny a free liberty to papists , to the worst heresies and schisms , to iudaism , turcism , paganism , or if any errour can be imagined to bee more pernicious . i beleeve that few prudent magistrates , when they have well ruminated these and the like principles of the independents , will esteem them much more conducible for their ends , then the principles of the reformed churches . in the point of schools and learning , how farre they will follow the brownists , i cannot say : divers of them have as good a share in learning as their neighbours ; yet whatever they have of that kinde , they got it all before they entred into their new way , and whatever learning all of them do possesse , it is no more then what was among the brownists , when they did most cry down learning . the most of their erudition this day dwels in new-england , that any reall course hath ever there been taken for its entertainment and propagation , i have not heard much ; though the magistrate and the whole land have beene and are at their devotion ; and till of late they had no apparant hope of supplying their way from the schools of other parts of the world . were we not weary , we might go on yet farther in the paralell , especially in the doctrinall tenets of the independents , wherein already they have gone farre beyond the brownists : you had a touch of the arminianism of some in the reall sanctification of all baptised infants ; of the enthusiasms of others in their contemplations of god without scripture ; of the libertinism of a third , blaspheming god as the authour of the sinfulnesse of sin : of the arminian reprobation , the antinomian , montanist●ck and familistick tenets of a fourth ; for which i doubt if to this day they have given any satisfaction . the whole city hath been filled these many yeares with the noise of the socinianism of the fifth ; many of them are passionate for a full liberty of all religions in every state. the apologists declare , that they will have none cast out of the church for any errours which are not fundamentall ; and how farre they will extend this principle who can know ? only it would seem that all the named errours which do lodge or have lodged , as is alledged , in their prime leaders , without any censure to this day , must be taken within the compasse of errours tolerable , not only in the state , but in the purest churches . and if arminian , socinian , anabaptistick , antinomian , familistick , enthusiastick errours be declared not fundamentall , and tolerable in a church , what shall we say of prelaticall , cassandrian and the most of the popish tenets that are no wayes so grosse ? spalato and others have been at great paines to prove that none of all the popish errours are fundamentall . the remonstrant apologists labour to free the greatest heresies that ever were in the church , such as arrianism of old , and vorstianism of late ▪ from that infamy . certainly , though our brethren had kept in their principle of change , and not declared their full resolution to go on farther then themselves or others have yet thought : what already they have positively delivered , giveth to the world just reason of doubt whither they may go , and where at last they will stop their very swift and volant progresse . the testimonies of the sixth chapter . ( a ) antap . p. . it was agreed upon , that they out of hand should bring in a narrative of their opinions wherein they differed from us , and then should joyne with us in preaching against the brownists and anabaptists ; they never brought in their narrative untill this day , and though at full meetings of the ministers , they have been spoken unto , and some ministers have been sent from the company to some of them , and the narrative was promised at such a time , and then at such a time yet it was never performed ; and whereas the agreement in writing for our side , was left in mr calamies hand , mr nye comes after some time to mr calamy , and pretends some reasons to borrow it for awhile ; but after he had it , he carries it away into yorkshire , that so upon occasion of complaints of the breach of the agreement , when we would have consulted with that paper , it was gone , and mr nye keeps it to this day , and having been moved to restore it , his answer is , it is at hull amongst other papers . ( b ) apollonius letter to the apologists , the of may . hasce quaestiones ad vos reverendi viri transmitto de iisdem sententias vestras quaerens & ob mutuam nostram fidem & charitatem serio vos oro ut non detrectetis sincere dilucide & accurate absque rhetorici apparatus diverticulis declarare , quid vos & fratres illi quibuscum societatem vestram ecclesiasticam colitis de hisce sentiant , quoniam meae fidei ab ecclesiis christi id commissum est . spero vos ex timore dei & charitate erga nos fratres vestros absque ullo pretextu sententias vestras hac de re declaraturos , idque quam cito fieri potest , urgent enim ecclesiae nostrae ut opus hoc maturem ; this zealous adjuration hath not to this day drawn from any of them any declaration . ( c ) apol. nar. p . a relation of our judgments in the points of difference about church-government , we reserve unto the more proper season . ( d ) keyes preface , p. . only we crave leave of the reverend author to declare that we assent not to all expressions scattered up and down , or to all and every assertion interwoven in it ; yea , nor to all the grounds or allegations of scriptures , nor should we in all things perhaps have used the same termes , to expresse the same materialls by . ( e ) apol. nar. p. . a second principle we carried along with us in all : our resolution was not to make our present judgement and practice a binding law unto our selves for the future ; and therefore in a jealousie of our selves , wee kept this rese●ve to al●er and retract , though not lightly what ever should be discovered to be taken up out of a misunderstanding of the rule , which principle we wish were next to that most supreame , enacted as the most sacred law of all others . ( f ) cottons keyes published by goodwin and nye , p. . in what sence the church of a particular congregation is the first subject of the power of the keyes , in the same sence it is independent and none other , we taking the first subject and the independent subject to be all one . answer to the questions . p. . for the matter of independency , we confesse the church is not so independent , but it ought to depend upon ●hrist ; but for dependency upon men or other churches , or other subordination unto them in regard of church-government and power , we know not of any such appointed by christ and his word . the churches were not dependent and subordinate to others , but all of them absolutely free and independent . burtons vindication ▪ p. . we are not so ashamed of the title of independency ▪ as utterly to disclame it , and that for two reasons ; first , for distinction sake , between us and that which you call presbyteriall government ; the second is , because this word independent is to signifie that wee hold all particular churches of christ to be of equall authority , and none to have iurisdiction over another , but each church is under christs goverments as the sole head , king , lord , law-giver thereof . ( g ) apol. nar. p. . we doe professedly judge the calvinian reformed churches of the first reformation from out of popery to stand in need of a further reformation themselves . ( h ) ibid. p. . wee think we give more to the magistrate then the principles of the presbyteriall government will suffer them to yeeld . ( i ) ibid. p. . wee doe here publikely professe we believe the truth to lie and consist in a middle way , betwixt that which is falsely charged on us , brownisme , and that which is the contention of these times , the authoritative presbyteriall government . preface to the keyes , p. . we are yet neither afraid , nor ashamed to make profession that the substance of this briefe extract , is that very middle way betwixt that which is called brownisme , and the presbyteriall government . ( k ) vide supra , chap. . ( b ) and ( r . ) ( l ) prynnes discovery , p. . iohn lilbourn in his answer to arguments , p. . writes the church of england is a true whoorish mother , and you are one of her base begotten and bastardly children . i say , the church of england neither is , nor never was truly married to christ in that espousall band which his true churches are and ought to be , but is one of anti-christs nationall wh●orish churches : your church is false and anti-christian , the ministers of the church of england , are not true ministers of christ , but false ministers of anti-christ , ibid. p. . this language and opinion of his concerning our english church and ministry , is seconded by most independents in their late pamphl●ts . ( m ) mr robinson hath written a whole treatise upon this subject . ( n ) answer to the questions , p. . if we were in england , we should willingly joyne in some parts of gods true worship , and namely , in hearing the word where it is truly preached ; yea , though wee doe not know them to be true churches . for some worship , as prayer , and preaching , and hearing the word , is not peculiar to church-assemblies , but may bee performed in other meetings . cottons letter examined , p. . the second thing which mr cotton himselfe hath professed concerning english preachers , is , that although the word , yet not the seales may be received from them , because ( saith he ) there is no communion in hearing , and the word is to be preached to all but the seales , &c. ( o ) vide supra . chap. . ( g. ) ( p ) cottons letter examined , p. . cotton here confesseth these two things ; first , if any reproach the church of salem for separation , it is a sin meet to be censured : secondly , the churches themselves may be separated from , who tolerate their members in such causlesse reproachings , which i leave to himselfe to reconcile with his former profession against separation . ( q ) vide supra . chap. . ( r ) ( r ) vide supra , chap. . ( e ) . ( s ) burtons vindication , p. . we esteeme the government of christs church so holy , as we cannot think them fit to be admitted , be they never so good , that think so slightly of the way , and of them that walk in it , that they refuse to agree to walk in this way with the people of god. ibid. p. . doe you not know that no infants have any title to baptisme , but by vertue of their parents faith outwardly professed , and what outward profession of faith in the parents that refuse christ for their only king ? if therefore the parents refuse thus to be in visible covenant , can the children be said to be in visible covenant , and so to have a right to baptisme ? if then the parents by refusing christ as their king , doe hereby cut themselves off from the covenant , they doe therewith cut off their children to . ( z ) ibid. p. . we dare not baptise the children of these parents that refuse to professe the faith of christ as their onely king as well as their only priest and prophet ; for christ divided , becomes no christ to the divider ; this is to dissolve christ , that is , to receive him onely in part and not in whole , which is the spirit of antichrist , ibid. p. . such a conversion as you speak of , comes not home to whole christ , and such with their converters doe deny christs kingly government ; what kind of converters call you these ? at best they are converted but in part , and that maine thing is wanting , to wit , christs kingly office which they come not up to by the preaching thereof . ( w ) paper of accommodation after the ninth proposition : we having weighed our brethrens principles , doe find no probability of an accommodation for them ordinarily to enjoy congregations , unlesse it shall happen in a parish that the minister cannot administer the sacraments to all of the parish , whom possibly the neighbour ministers or the classis may judge fit to be admitted , such persons shall have power to procure to themselves the sacraments by the help of a neighbour minister , ibid. whereunto our brethren adde as followeth , or otherwise if in a parish it happen that there be a considerable number of such as cannot partake in the ordinances with the minister and people , there they shall have liberty to dispose of themselves as a distinct church , and to choose a minister or ministers , at their own charge to be maintained to be their pastor . ( x ) thomas goodwin to i. g. p. . indeed we that are to admit doe it upon a conviction and perswasion of the parties true grace some way made forth visible to us . welds answer , to chap. . hee tells us that they must be reall saints and syncere believers , and that the church in admitting of them , doth make exact tryall by examination of their knowledge , and the work of grace , first in private , then in publike , and that they be such as can cleave together in opinion and affection , and that they be such as know what belongs to church-covenant , approve it and seek it ; is there any thing in all this that you can blame ? ( y ) ibid. in the churches where we have lived many years , we have seen such a tender respect had to the weaker sex , that we commit their tryall to the elders , and some few others in private , who upon their testimony are admitted into the church without any more adoe . ( z ) rathbones narration , p. . beside true and reall saintship , they require that the members to be admitted , be such as can cleave together , both in opinion and in affection , and that there be sutablenesse and sweetnesse of spirit in them , apt to close one with another . ( aa ) vide supra , ( z ) also cotons way , p. . ( bb ) vide supra , fifth chap. ( e . ) ( cc ) apol. nar. p. . excommunication should be put in execution for no other kind of sinnes then may be evidently presumed to be perpetrated against the parties known light , as whether it be a sinne in manners and conversation , such as is committed against the light of nature , or the common received practises of christianity professed in all the churches of christ ; or if in opinion , then such as are likewise contrary to the received principles of christianity , and the power of godlinesse professed by the party himselfe , and universally acknowledged in all the rest of the churches , and no other sinnes to be the subject of that dreadfull sentence . ( dd ) bastwicks postscript , p. . also his iust defence . p. . ( ee ) an apologie of the churches in new-england , for a church-covenant ( ff ) t.g. to i.g. p. first , it is no more with us then this , an assent and resolution professed by them that are to be admitted by us , with promise to walk in all these wayes pertaining to this fellowship , so farre as they shall be revealed to them in the gospel ; thus briefly , indefinitly and implicitly , in such like words and no more or otherwise , do we apply our answers to mens consciences . church-covenant , p. . we deny not , but the covenant in many of the english congregations is more implicite , and not so plaine as were to bee desired ; yet there wants not that reall and substantiall comming together or agreeing in covenant , and that substantiall profession of faith , which thanks be to god , hath preserved the essence of visible churches in england unto this day . ( gg ) plaine dealing , p. . a church is gathered after this manner ; a competent number of christians come together in some fit place in a publike manner , and there confesse their sins , and professe their faith , and enter into church-covenant ; after this , they doe at this same time or some other all being together , elect their own officers , as pastor , teacher , elders , deacons , if they have fit men enough to supply these places ; else as many of them as they can bee provided of ; then they set another day for the ordination of their said officers . ( hh ) answer to the questions , p. . if church-communion and the exercise of such ordinances , as christ hath appointed for his church , was lawfull and needfull , when magistrates were enemies to the gospel , and be not so when magistrates professe the gospel , we doe not see but christians may sometime be losers by having christian magistrates , and in worse condition then if they had none but professed enemies , ibid. p. . it is our practise in ordination of ministers , as also in removing of them , to have the assistance of ministers of other churches ; but for authority and power , we know none , that ministers have , properly so called , in any congregation save that one over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers , and therefore we think it not lawfull when a church is to ordaine officers , to call in by way of authority or power the ministers of other churches . ( ii ) cottons way , p. . the church to which christ hath committed the censures , is a combination of faithfull godly men , meeting by common consent into one congregation , ibid. . then such whose hearts god teacheth often meet together about the things of god and performe some duties of prayer and spirituall conference together , till a sufficient company of them be well satisfied in the spirituall good estate one of another , and so have approved themselves to one anothers consciences in the sight of god , as living stones fit to be laid in the lords spiritull temple , ibid. p. . the church being thus gathered as hath beene described : our next care is , that it may be supplyed with all these officers which christ hath ordained . ( kk ) answer to the questions , p. . we doe not finde that god doth anywhere say they must be above forty or else they cannot be a church : nay rather that speech of christs , of two or three gathered together in his name , doth plainly imply , that if there be a greater number then two or three , whom they being not satisfied in the answer of an offender , may appeale unto , and in so doing tell the church , such a small number may be a church , and may have the blessing of his presence to be among them . ( ll ) ibid. p. , . when a visible church is to be erected , it is necessary that in respect of quantity it be no more in number in the dayes of the new testament , but so many as may meet in one congregation . ( mm ) ibid. p. . the church is before the ministers , seeing the power of chusing ministers is given to the church by christ . ( nn ) ibid. p. . the church that hath no officers , may elect officers unto themselves ; therefore it may also ordaine them : if it hath power from christ for the one , and that the greater , it hath also for the other which is the lesser : now , ordination is lesse then election . ( oo ) ibid. p. . vnto the question , whether you think it convenient , that a company of private and illiterate persons should ordinarily examine , elect , ordaine , and depose their ministers : a part of the answer to this question is , if there were none among them who had humane learning , we doe not see how this could hinder them of their liberty to chuse ministers , purchased to them by christs precious blood ; for they that are fit matter to be combined into a church body , have learned the doctrine of the holy scriptures in the fundamentall points thereof ; they have learned to know the lord in their owne hearts ; therefore they may not bee reproached as illiterate or unworthy to chuse their owne ministers ; nay they have the best learning , without which all other learning is but madnesse and folly . ( pp ) plaine dealing , p. . they set a day for the ordination of their officers , and appoint some of themselves to impose hands upon them : where there are ministers or elders before , they impose their hands upon the new officers ; but where there is none , there some of their chiefest men two or three of good report amongst them , though not of the ministry , doe by appointment of the same church lay hands upon them . cottons way , p. , . towards the end of the day , one of the elders of the church , if they have any , if not , one of the graver brethren of the church , appointed by themselves to order the work of the day , standeth up and enquireth in the church &c. he advertiseth him who is chosen , what duties the lord requireth of him in that place towards the church ; then with the presbytery of that church , if they have any , or if not , with two or three others of the gravest christians among the brethren of that church , being deputed by the body , he doth in the name of the lord jesus ordaine him to that office , with imposition of hands , calling upon the lord ; and so turning the speech to the person on whom their hands are imposed , he as the mouth of the presbytery , expresses their ordination of him , and puts a solemne charge upon him to look well to himselfe and the flock . after this the elders of other churches present , observing the presence of god in the orderly proceeding of the church to the officers election and ordination , one of them in the name of all the rest , doth give unto him the right hand of fellowship in the sight of all the assembly . ( qq ) answer to the questions , p. . if the church hath power by election to chuse a minister , and so power of instituting him , then of destituting also ; instituere & destituere ejusdem est potestatis . ( rr ) ibid. p. . we conceive that every church properly so called , though they bee not above ten persons , or the least number that you mention , have right and power from christ to transact all their owne ecclesiasticall businesse , if so be they be able , and carry matters justly ; for the power of the keyes matth. . . is committed by christ unto the church . ( ss ) cottons catechism , p. . it is committed to the presbytery to prepare matters for the churches hearing . ( tt ) answer to the quest . p. . in this sense matters with us are carried according to the vote of the major part , that is , with the joynt consent of the whole church , but yet because it is the mind of christ . ( ww ) the propositions to which almost all our elders did agree when they were assembled together : the first , the fraternity is the first subject of all presbyteriall power , radicaliter , id est causatim per modum collationis , non habitualiter , non actualiter , non formaliter . ( xx ) anatom . p. . i heare of no ruling elders that ever mr simpson had in his church . anatomist anatomised , p. . it is true de facto wee had none , but were resolved to have them . notwithstanding this answer of mr simpsons , that church of rotterdam to this day hath never had a presbytery , after more then seven yeares delay . ( yy ) antap. p. . pastors are necessary officers in your churches , and yet according to your practises your churches are many yeares without them . ( zz ) keyes p. . authority is a morall power , and a superiour order or state , binding or releasing an inferiour in point of subjection . christ hath given no iurisdiction but to whom he hath given office . the key of power in a large sense , or liberty , is in the church ; but the key of authority or rule , in a more strict sense , is in the elders of the church . ( aaa ) excommunication is one of the highest acts of rule ; and therfore cannot bee performed but by some rulers ▪ now where all the elders are culpable , there be no rulers left in that church to censure them : as therefore the presbytery cannot excommunicate the whole church , though apostate , for they must tell the church , and joyne with the church in that censure ; so neither can the church excommunicate the whole presbytery , because they have not received from christ an office of rule without their officers . ib. preface p. . he gives unto the elders or presbytery a binding power of rule and authority peculiar unto them , and to the brethren distinct and apart an interest of power and priviledge to concurre with them , and that such affaires should not be transacted but with the joynt agreement of both , though out of a different right : so that as a church of brethren only could not proceed to any publike censures , without they have elders over them ; so neither in the church have the elders power to censure , without the concurrence of the people : so as each alone have not power of excommunicating the whole of either , though together they have power over any particular person or persons in each . ( bbb ) ibid. also keyes p. . else the brethren have a power of order , and the priviledge to expostulate with their brethren in case of private scandals : so in case of publike scandall , the whole church of brethren have power and priviledge to joyne with the elders in inquiring , hearing , judging of publike scandals , so as to bind notorius offenders and impenitents under censure , and to forgive the repentant . ( ccc ) the propositions , . prop. the fraternity having authoritative concurrence with the presbytery in iudiciall acts . ( ddd ) keyes , p. . though the church want authority to excommunicate their presbytery , yet they want not liberty to withdraw from them . ( eee ) keyes preface , p. . when we first read this of this learned author , knowing what hath been the more generall current both of the practice and judgement of our brethren for the congregationall way ; wee confesse we were filled with wonderment at that divine hand that had thus led the judgements without the least mutuall interchange or intimation of thoughts or notions in these particticular of our brethren there and our selves here . ( fff ) ibid. onely wee crave leave of the reverend author to declare that wee assent not to all expressions , &c. vide supra . ( ggg ) tabula . potestas charitativa merè est primo frat●um & presbyterorum charitativè non politicè ambulantium , secundo sororum . ( hhh ) vide supra , chap. . ( f ) . ( iii ) vide supra , chap. . ( m ) . ( kkk ) bastwicks independency , p. . the fifth quaere is whether the women and people as well as the ministers have the keyes ? and whether the women have all their votes in the church , both for election and reprobation of members and officers as well as the men ? and whether the consent of all the women , and the greatest part of them be requisite for the making of any one a member , or officer , so that if they gain-say it , being the greater number , or allow of it , the most voyces carry the businesse ? the practice of this the brethren in some of their congregations hold for orthodox . mr prynnes fresh discovery , in his dedicatory epistle to the parliament , p. . and to interest the femall sex and draw them to their party , they allow them not only decisive votes but liberty of preaching , prophesying , speaking in their congregatitions . ( lll ) keyes p. . we be farre from allowing that sacrilegious usurpation of the ministers office , which we heare of to our griefe to be practised in some places , that private christians ordinarily take upon them to preach the gospel publikely , and to minister the sacraments . katharine chidleys iustification of the independent churches , p. . yet that the church must want the word preached , or the sacraments administred , till they have pastors and teachers in office , is yet to be proved ; but that which hath been alledged , is sufficient to prove that the family must not be unprovided for , either for the absence or the negligence of a steward . ( mmm ) keyes , p. . a particular congregation being the first subject of the church power , is unavoidably independent upon any other church or body for the exercise thereof ; for the first subject of any accident or adjunct , is independent upon any other , either for the enjoying or for the imploying , the having or using of the same . ( nnn ) vide supra ( mmm ) . ( ooo ) answer to the questions , p. . for dependency upon men or other churches , or other subordination unto them in regard of church-government or power , we know not of any such appointed by christ in his word . ( ppp ) welds answer to rathband , . chap. our churches are tender to perswade men to act without light , much more to command or to compell ; both which very words though the thing required were lawfull , are odious in the churches of christ most fitly becomming the synagogues of anti-christ . ( qqq ) vide cottons keyes , p. . & infra ( zzz ) . ( rrr ) cottons catechisme , p. . all the churches thereabout may meet together , and by the word of god may confute and condemn such errours in doctrine or practice as are offensive , to prevent the spreading either of the gangrene of heresie or of the leprosie of sin ; and if the church offending , shall not yet hearken unto their brethren , though the rest of the churches have not power to deliver them to satan ; yet they have power to draw from them the right hand of fellowship . vide infra , ( sss ) . ( sss ) keyes , p. . in the election and ordination of officers and censure of offenders , let it suffice the churches consociate to assist one another with their counsel , but let them not put forth the power of their community to take such church censures out of their hands ; let synods have their just authority in all churches how pure so ever , in determining such diataxeis as are requisite for the edification of all churches . keyes preface , p. . hee acknowledgeth that synods or classes are an ordinance of christ , unto whom christ hath committed a due and just measure of power , furnishing them not onely with ability to give counsell , but also a ministeriall power and authority , to determine , declare and enjoyne such things as may tend to the reducing of congregations to right order and peace ; but not arming them with power of excommunicating either congregations or their members ; they are to leave the former act of this censure to that authority which can only execute it , placed by christ in these churches themselves ; which if they deny to doe or persist in their miscarriage then the synod may determine to withdraw communion from them . ( ttt ) ibid. ( www ) keyes , p. . . the magistates addresse themselves to the establishment of religion , and reformation of corruptions by civill punishments upon the wilfull opposers ; iosiah put to death idolatrous priests ; nor was that a peculiar duty of the kings of iuda ; for of the times of the new-testament it is prophesied , that in some cases capitall punishment shall proceed against false prophets . ( xxx ) keyes preface , p. . hee asserteth an association of churches , sending their elders and messengers into a synod ; so hee purposely chuseth to stile these assemblies of elders , which the reformed churches doe call classes or presbyteries . ( yyy ) cottons catechisme , p. . the office or work of the ruling elders , is to moderate the carriage of all matters of the church assembled , as to propound matters to the church , and to order the season of speech and silence in the church . ( zzz ) keyes p. . the pattern of synods is set before us , acts . there the apostles assembled together with the elders , and a multitude of brethren together with them , the whole synod being satisfied , determine of a iudiciall sentence , and of a way to publish it by letters and messengers ; so the matter is at last judged in a congregation of churches in a church of churches ; for what is a synod else but a church of churches ? ibid. p . all the liberties of churches were purchased to them by the precius blood of the lord iesus , and therefore neither may the churches give them away , nor many churches take them out of the hands of one . ( aaaa ) keyes preface , p. . in all humility wee yet see not that assembly of apostles , elders and brethren acts to have been a formall synod . ( bbbb ) ibid. . he a●knowledgeth a synod to be an ordinance of god , in relation to the rectifying of male administrations and healing dissentions in particular congregations and the like cases ; in such cases they declare and judge the nature of the offence . ( bbbb ) antap. p. . i was desired by mr ward to be present at that meeting ; but when the time came , neither i , nor any english ministers , but them of arnheim were called ; whether were the other churches of our nation or any of them , who could not but be offended , as them of amsterdam , hague , vt●ick , leyden , delph , called in by arnheim , or by the church at roterdam to joyn in the hearing and trying of that businesse ? or did they send messengers , or was it onely agitate by two ministers , and two messengers of the church of arnheim , one church only , arnheim to roterdam ● one to one , both equall . the sub-committee for accommodation prop. . some of them doe desire , that the effect of that which hereafter followeth , may be for explanations sake inserted , viz. that the elders and brethren of such congregations in case they finde any thing too hard for themselves , or have any controversie among themselves , may have liberty to advise with any of these select elders and others in the province joyntly or apart , or with the elders of any other churches , for the determining and composing the controversie , or resolving that difficulty . ( cccc ) bastwicks independency second part . postscript , p. . . they professed that they had rather have the government of the prelates then the presbyteriall , and protest that before presbyters shall rule over them , they will joyn with prelaticall priests , for the re-establishing of the hierarchy . ( dddd ) vide supra ( rrr ) . ( eeee ) apol. nar. p. . what farther authority there is of one or many sister churches towards another whole church or churches offending , we doe not yet see ; and likewise we doe yet suppose that this principle of submission of churches that miscarry unto other churches offended , together with this other , that it is a command from christ injoyned to churches that are finally offended , to denounce such a sentence of non-communion , and withdrawing from them whilst impenitent , as unworthy to hold forth the name of christ ; these principles are mutuall duties as strictly injoynd them by christ as any other . ( ffff ) vide supra , chap. . ( eeeee ) . ( gggg ) theomachia , p. . concerning other civill meanes for the suppression and restraint of these spirituall evills , errours , heresies , &c. as imprisonment , banishment , interdictions , finings , &c. both reason and experience concurre in this demonstration , that such fetters as these put upon the feet of errours and heresies to secure and keep them under , still have proved wings whereby they raise themselves the higher in the thoughts and minds of men , and gaine an opportunity of further propagation . ( hhhh ) ibid. p. . . to hold that the persons so elected ( the members of the house of commons , chosen by men unworthy , and strangers to the power of godlinesse ) have a power by vertue of such nomination or election , to enact lawes and statutes in matters of religion , and to order under mulcts and penalties , how men shall worship and serve god , as it is a meanes to awaken the eye of jealousie upon them , and so is seven times more destructive unto and undermining , not only of their power , but of their honour peace , and safty also , then any thing that is found in the way so ill intreated ; so is it the settling upon the electors of such persons , i meane upon the promiscuous multitude of the land , a greater power then ever iesus christ himselfe had , at least then ever he exercised . ( iiii ) vide supra , ( s ) . ( kkkk ) vide supra , chap. . ( bb ) . ( llll ) plaine-dealing , p. . marriages are solemnized and done by the magistrates and not by the ministers . ( mmmm ) miltons doctrine of divorce , p. . that indisposition , unfitnesse or contrariety of mind arising from a cause in nature , unchangeable , hindring and ever likely to hinder the maine benefits of conjugall society which are solace and peace , is a greater cause of divorce then naturall frigidity , especially if there be no children , and that there be mutuall consent . ibid. p. . god himselfe commands in his law more then once , and by his prophet malachy , as the best translations read . that he who hates , let him divorce , that is , he who cannot love , ibid. p. . he who can receive nothing of the most important helps in marriage , being thereby disabled to return that duty which is his , with a cleare and hearty countenance , and thus continues to grieve whom hee would not , and is no lesse grieved , that man ought even for loves sake and peace to move divorce ; it is a lesse breach of wedlock to part with wise and quiet consent betimes , then still to profane that mystery of joy and union , with a polluting sadnesse and perpetuall distemper , ibid. p. . only these persons are joyned by god , whose minds are fitly disposed and enabled to mantaine a cheerfull conversation to the solace and love of each other ; the rest whom either disproportion or deadnesse of spirit or something distastfull and averse in the immutable bent of nature renders unconjugall , errour may have joyned , but god never joyned against the meaning of his own ordinance ; and if he joyned them not , then there is no power above their own consent to hinder them from unjoyning when they cannot reap the soberest ends of being together in any tolerable sort , ibid. p. . the freedome and eminence of mans creation , gives him to be a law in this matter to himselfe , being the head of the other sex which was made for him ; whom therefore though he ought not to injure , yet neither should he be forced to retaine in society to his own overthrow , nor to heare any judge therein above himselfe , it being also an unseemly affront to the modesty of that sex , to have her unpleasingnesse and other concealements bandied up and down , and aggravated in open court by these hired masters of tongue-fence . ( nnnn ) williams paper . i thought good to let you see some particulars wherein i could not close , nor goe along with them . first , that it is lawfull for a woman who sees into the mystery of christ , in case her husband will not goe with her , to leave her husband and follow the lords house ; for the church of god is a christians home where shee must dwell ; and where the saints are , there is the lords house ; and in so doing , she leaves not her husband , but her husband forsakes her : the odiousnesse of this point was further manifested unto me by the speech of ezekiel hollimers wife saying that she counted her selfe but a widow . ( oooo ) plaine-dealing , p. . they call the dayes of the weeke , the first , second , third , fourth , fifth , sixth , and seventh which is saturday ; also the moneths beginning at march , by the names of the first , second , and so forth to the twelfth , which is february ; because they would avoid all memory of heathenish and idols names . ( pppp ) ans . to the . quest . p. . for settled and stinted maintenance , there is nothing done that way among us except from year to year , because the conditions of ministers may vary , and of the church to which they do belong ; neither do we know any such thing to be appointed by christ our lord for the maintenance of the ministry in these dayes ; the bringing in of settled endowments and eminent preferments into the church , hath been the corruption , and to some the destruction of such as lived by them , both church-officers and church-members . ( qqqq ) cottons way , p. . the deacons were elected , and ordained for the serving at tables , to wit , the serving of all these tables which pertained to the church to provide for , which are the lords table ; the tables of the ministers or elders of the church , and the tables of the poore brethren , whither of their own body , or strangers , for the maintaining whereof we doe not appoint them to goe up and down to collect the benevolences of abler brethren ; but as the apostles received the oblations of the brethren brought and laid down at their feet , and thereby made distribution as the use of the church required , so the deacons receive the oblations of the brethren every lords day , brought unto them and laid down before them , and distribute the same as the need of the church doth require . ( rrrr ) ibid. ( ssss ) plaine-dealing , p. . at some other places they make a rate upon every man as well within as not of the church , residing with them , towards the churches occasions ; and others are beholding now and then to the generall court to study wayes to enforce the mantenance of the ministry . ( tttt ) antap. p. . have you not carried a greater port then most of the godly ministers in the city or countrey ? have not some of you the prime lectures of the city and other good places of advantage and profit ? besides , what some of you have from your own churches . vide supra chap. . ( wwww ) bastwicks independency , p. . . it is well known and can sufficiently be proved that godly christians of holy conversation , against whom they had no exception either for doctrine or manners , and who offered themselves to be admitted members upon their own conditions , and yet were not suffered to be joyned members , onely because they were poore ; and this very reason was given them for their not-admission , that they would not have their church over-burdened with poore , ibid. it was replyed , that the congregation of which he was pastor ▪ consisted of great personages , knights , ladies , and rich merchants and such people , as they being but poore , could not walk so sutably with them ; wherefore he perswaded them to joyn themselves with some other congregation among poore people , where they might better walk , and more confortably , in fellowship with them . ( xxxx ) plaine-dealing , p. . the pastor begins with solemn prayer continu●ing about a quarter of an houre , the teacher then readeth and expoundeth a chapter , then a psalme is sung which ever one of the ruling elders dictates ; after that the pastor preacheth a sermon , and sometimes ex tempore exhortes , then the teacher concludes with prayer and a blessing . ( yyyy ) cottons way , p. . first , then when we come into the church according to the apostles direction , tim. . we make prayers and intercessions , and thanksgivings for our selves and all men . ( zzzz ) i have heard the chiefe of our brethren maintaine this publikely , and i understand it is the practice of some of them in the city . ( aaaaa ) cottons catechisme , p. . where there bee more prophets besides the elders , they may prophesie two or three if the time permit , the elders calling to them , whither in the same church or others , if they have any word of exhortation to the people to say on . ( bbbbb ) ibid. and for the bettering of a mans selfe or others , it may be lawfull for either young or old , save only for women , to aske questions from the mouth of the prophets . ( ccccc ) answer to the quest . p. . some think the people have a liberty to aske their questions publikely for their better satisfaction upon very urgent and weighty cause , though even this is doubted of by others , and all judge the ordinary practice of it not necessary ; but if it be not meekly and wisely carried , to be inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull ; and therfore such asking of questions is seldom used in any church among us , and in most churches never . ( ddddd ) anatom . p. . in the matter of singing of psalms they differ not only from us , but are also at variance among themselves , some thinking it unlawfull for any to sing but he who preacheth ; and this hath been the late practice at arnheim : others thinking it unlawfull for women to sing in the congregation ; hence some women at rotterdam doe not sing ; i heare also they think it unfit for any at all in such times of the churches trouble as this . ( eeeee ) ibid. ( fffff ) vide supra chap. . ( ss . ) ( ggggg ) if the question be of joyning in some few selected prayers read by an able and faithfull minister out of the book , as of the one side we are tender of imputing sinnes to these that so joyne . vide infra ( hhhhh ) . ( hhhhh ) to that part of the directory which recommends the use of the lords prayer they did enter no dissent : an answer to the questions p. . by a liturgie and forme of prayer , we suppose you meane not a forme of private prayer , composed for the help of the weaker : as for a forme of prayer in generall , we conceive your meaning cannot be of that ; for it is evident that many preachers constantly use a set forme of prayer of their owne making before their sermons , with whom the people refuse not to joyne , ibid. p. . wee acknowledge the lords prayer , and other formes set downe in scripture , may be lawfully used as prayers , due cautions being observed . cottons pouring out of the spirit p. . not that i would discourage any poore soule from praying on a book , for i think as we may sing psalms on a book , so we may in some cases pray on a book . ( iiiii ) vide supra ( s ) . also see the petition of the inhabitants of the colony of the sommer islands p. . our children die unbaptized , our selves are deprived of the lords supper , our daughters cannot be given in marriage . ( kkkkk ) plain dealing p. . at new plymouth mr chancey stands for dipping in baptism only necessary . ( lllll ) cottons catechism p. . what manner of men hath god appointed to be received as members of his church ? answ . such as doe willingly offer themselves first to the lord , and then to the church , by confessing of their sins , &c. ( mmmmm ) this wee heare is their ordinary practice at london . ( nnnnn ) vide supra chap. . ( q ) . ( r ) . ( ooooo ) vide supra ibid. ( ppppp ) this is the apologists common profession . ( qqqqq ) this also they professe as a cleare consequent of the former . ( rrrrr ) cottons way p. . the lords supper we administer for the gesture to the people sitting , according as christ administred it to his disciples sitting matth. . . who also made a symbolicall use of it to teach the church their majority over their ministers in some cases , and their iudiciall authority , as cosessors with him at the last iudgement , luk. . . to . ( sssss ) for this the apologists did plead as much and as sharply as any . ( ttttt ) i have heard some of their chiefe men discourse publikely enough to this purpose . ( wwwww ) cottons catechism p. . the body of the church hath power from christ to enquire , and heare , and assist in the judgement of all publike scandals . ( xxxxx ) vide supra chap. . ( tt ) . ( yyyyy ) vide supra chap. . ( tt ) . ( zzzzz ) answer to the quest . p. . if it appeare , they who dissent from the major part , are factiously or partially carried , the rest labour to convince them of their errour by the rule ; if they yeeld , the consent of all comfortably concurreth in the matter ; if they still continue obstinate , they are admonished , and so standing under censure , their vote is nullified . ( aaaaaa ) ibid. if the difference still continue , the sentence is still demurred even till other churches have beene consulted with ; if the church or the elders should refuse the testim●ny of other churches according to god , they will deny them the right hand of fellowship &c. ( bbbbbb ) short story p. . then m●stris hutchinson kept open house for all commers , and set up two lecture dayes in the week ; when they usually met at her house three or fourscore persons , the pretence was to repeat sermons ; but when that was done , she would comment upon the doctrines , and interpret all passages at her pleasure ; she did lay all that opposed her , being neare all the elders and most of the faithfull christians in this countrey , under a covenant of works to advance her master-piece of immediate revelations ; wherin she had not failed of her aime to the utter subversion both of churches and civill state , if the lord had not prevented it . ibid. p. . what say you to your weekly publike meetings ? answ . there were such meetings in use before i came ; we began it with five or six , and though it grew to more in future time , yet being tolerated at the first , i knew not why it might not continue . the courts reply , there were private meetings indeed , and are still in many places , of some few ne●ghbours ; we allow you to teach younger women privately , and upon occasion ; but that gives no warrant for such set meetings for that purpose , neither do yee teach them that which the apostle commands , to keep at home . ( cccccc ) apologet. nar. p. . to the magistrate we give as much and , a● we think , more then the principles of the presbyteriall government will suffer them to yeeld . ( dddddd ) williams paper , prop. . that the saints are not to submit to the powers of the world or worldly powers , and that the powers and governments of the world have nothing to doe with them for civill misdemeanors ; these governours must keep in their owne spheare , as whales , not to govern whales , but other fishes ; lions not to governe lions , but the beasts of the forrest ; eagles , not to governe eagles , but the other foules of the ayre . ( eeeeee ) mr williams related to me , that mistris hutchinson ( with whom he was familiarly acquainted , and of whom he spake much good ) after she had come to rid island , and her husband had beene made governour there , she perswaded him to lay downe his office upon the opinion which newly she had taken up of the unlawfulnesse of magistracy . ( ffffff ) bloody tenet p. . williams sets down these words of cottons modell , the proper meanes whereby the civill power may and should attaine its end , are only politicall , and principally these five : first , the erecting and establishing what forme of civill government may seem in wisedome most meet according to the generall rules of the word and state of the people : upon these words williams comments thus ; from this grant i inferre that the soveraign originall and foundation of civill power lies in the people , whom they must needs meane by the civill power distinct from the government set up : and if so that a people may erect and establish what forme of government seems to them most meet for their civill condition , it is evident that such governments as are by them erected and established , have no more power , nor for no longer time , then the civill power or people consenting and agreeing shall betrust them with . this is cleare , not only in reason , but in the experience of all common-weals where the people are not deprived of their naturall freedome by the power of tyrants . how right this commentary is , mr cottons own words will declare , set downe p. . in a free state no magistrate hath power over the bodies , goods , lands , liberties of a free people , but by their free consent ; and because free men are not free lords of their owne estates , but are only stewards under god ; therefore they may not give their free consents to any magistrate to dispose upon their bodies , lands and liberties at large as themselves please , but as god the soveraigne lord of all pleases ; and because the word is a perfect rule , as well of righteousnesse as of holinesse , it will be therefore necessary that neither the people give consent , nor that the magistrate take power , but according to the lawes of the word . ( gggggg ) vide supra chap. . e. ( hhhhhh ) bastwicks independency second part . postscript p. . it may evidently appeare , that all the projects of the independents in getting prime places by sea and land , and in the armies , and in the townes , cities , forts , and castles , and all other places , and in all committees , is only for the advancement and fomenting of their faction : and this i conceive to be the only cause of all the linsie-woolsie committees through the kingdom . ( iiiiii ) williams examination pag. . after my publike triall , one of the most eminent magistrates stood up and spoke ; mr williams , said he , holds forth that it is not lawfull to call a wicked person to sweare , to pray , as being actions of gods worship . ( kkkkkk ) vide supra chap. . tt . ww . aaa . ( kkkkkk ) lieutenant generall cromwells letter to the parliament from bristoll ; as for being united in formes commonly called uniformity , every christian for peace sake would study and doe as farre as conscience would permit ; and from brethren , in things of the minde , we look for no compulsion but that of light and reason ; in other things god has put the sword into the parliaments hands for the terrour of evill doers , and the praise of them that doe well ; if any plead exemption from it , he knowes not the gospell . ( llllll ) vide supra chap. . ( hhhhh ) , ( iiiii ) ( kkkkk . ) ( mmmmmm ) vide supra ibid. ( mmmmmm ) vide infra ( mmmmmm . ) ( mmmmmm ) cottons modell of power in the bloody tenet p. . the magistrate in making lawes about civill and indifferent things in the common-wealth ; first , he hath no power given him of god to make what lawes he pleases , either in restraining from or constraining to the use of indifferent things ; because that which is indifferent in its nature , may sometimes be inexpedient in its use , and consequently unlawfull : it is a prerogative proper to god to require obedience of the sons of men , because of his authority and will. it is an evill speech in some , that in some things the will of the law , not the reason of it , must be the rule of conscience to walk by : and that princes may forbid men to seek any other reason but their authority , yea when they command men frivola & dura ; and therefore it is the duty of the magistrate in all lawes about indifferent things , to shew the reasons , not only the will ; to shew the expediency as well as the indifferency of things of that nature ; and because the judgement of expedient and inexpedient things , is often difficult and diverse , it is meet that such lawes should not proceed without due consideration of the rules of expediency set downe in the word , which are these three ; first , the rule of piety , that they may make for the glory of god , cor. . . secondly , the rule of charity , that no scandall come thereby to any weak brother . cor. . . thirdly , the rule of charity , that no man be forced to submit against his conscience , rom. ▪ , . ( nnnnnn ) vide supra chap. . ( kkkkk . ) ( nnnnnn ) cottons modell in the bloody tenet p. . the magistrate hath power to publish and apply such civill lawes in a state as either are exprest in the word of god , in moses judicials ; to wit , so farre as they are of generall and morall equity , and so binding all nations in all ages ; or else to be deducted by way of generall consequence and proportion from the word of god. ( nnnnnn ) ibid. p. . a strange modell of a church and common-wealth after the mosaicall and jewish patterne , framed by many able , learned and godly hands , which wakens moses from his unknown grave , and denies iesus yet to have seen the earth . ( oooooo ) plaine dealing p. . the ministers give their votes in all elections of magistrates . ( pppppp ) ibid. p. . the ministers advise in making of laws , especially ecclesiastick , and are present in courts , and advise in some cases criminall , and in framing of fundamentall lawes . ibid. p. . a draught of a body of fundamentall lawes , according to the iudiciall lawes of the iewes , hath been contrived by the ministers and magistrates , and offered to the generall court to be established and published to the people . ( qqqqqq ) cottons third viall p. . in old time , if a man playd the false prophet , the lord judged him to death ; and so in the new testament , as in the old he condemnes all such to death ; it is a law deut. . that false prophets who did fundamentally pervert religion , should not live ; if high treason against princes on earth justly be punished by death , verily this is as dishonourable to the prince of all princes ; that whole of deut. is spent about the seducing of false prophets , and he puts a threefold gradation ; if he be a prophet ; therfore never so seemingly holy by his place and gifts , he shall surely be put to death : if there be never so many that shall joyne , if a whole city shall joyne together in such a course , thou shalt rise against it and destroy the city , and burne it with fire , and leave not a stone upon a stone . ibid. p. . the third reason is taken from the just desert of soule-murther ; there is none of all these priests , or iesuites , or hereticks , but they worry and devoure the soules of gods people ; and this murther of souls is justly a capitall crime , as moses said before : if they thrust thee from thy god , let not thine eye spare such kind of corrupters . ibid. p. . are not moses morall lawes of perpetuall equity , and therfore to be observed in all ages ? is not murther of soules as damnable now as then ? a wonder that such f●ivolous interpretations should come in the hearts of men , to hinder the free passage of the justice of god on such notorious offenders . cottons third viall p. . on the of joshua , when the two tribes and an half set up an altar by iordan , although they thought not to bring in an other object of worship ▪ but another manner of worship ; yet the other tribes would have cut them off if they had found another altar for worship : he is the same god , and h●s zeale is as deeply provoked against the like kinde of vitiousnesse now as ever he was then , ibid. p. . a soule that sinneth of ignorance , may be pardoned ; but if he shall continue obstinate , were it a city or a tribe , they shall not suffer such in a countrey ; but you will say that the tares and wheat may grow together ; grant ; but it is not said that briers and thornes should grow up with them , ibid. p. . you see the first use is to justifie the equity of such capitall punishments upon priests and iesuites , and consequently on such who bring in other gods , or another way of worshiping the true god then that wherein we may enjoy fellowship with the true god. cottons third viall , p. . . for a second use , it may serve to reprove the carnall and sinfull foolish pity that is found in any estate that shall bee sparing to spill such blood of the priests and iesuites ; the lord loatheth this kind of lenity and indulgency ; cursed is he that doth the work of the lord negligently ; and cursed is he that keepeth back his sword from blood , when the lord calls us to sheath the sword of authority on such kinde of delinquents , a state shall be separate from god for these tolerations . ( rrrrrr ) vide supra , chap. . ( s ) . ( ssssss ) goodwins theomachy ; also chap. ( g ) . ( h ) . and chap. . ( kkkkkk ) . also chap. . ( bbbb ) . ( hhhh ) . chap. vii . it is unjust scrupulosity to require satisfaction of the true grace of every church-member . having set down the proceedings and tenets of the brownists and independents , so farre as my slender reading of some of their writings and observation of their wayes have brought to my memory at this time : before i leave them , it will not bee unfit to examine the truth of their chiefe principles whereby they have disturb'd the church , and will continue so to doe untill they have changed their minde . for shortnesse , i will pitch but upon foure grounds which the independents have learned in the brownists schoole : the first , concerning the members of a congregation ; the next three concerning their power . we will first consider whither the members of every particular church bee obliged at their first admission to shew to the whole congregation convincing signs of their regeneration and true grace . secondly , whether the people of a congregation have a power of voycing in every ecclesiastick affaire . thirdly , whether the power of the congregation be absolute and independent ? fourthly , whither every man who hath a gift though not an office , hath power to preach and prophesie publickly . the first question is of the grearest importance : the independents would gladly dissemble their minde therein ; to this day they have declined all solemn debate upon it , they speak as if they were either fully or very neere accorded with us , professing their utter dislike of the brownists unreasonablenesse herein ; but i professe this hath alwayes seemed to me their capitall and fundamentall difference , the only cause of their separation from us , and wherein if wee could either agree or accommodate , there would be a faire possibility of accord in all things else , at least so farre as to be united in one and the same church ; but this difference is the great partition wall , which so long as it stands , will force them to continue their intolerable practice of separating from all the reformed churches in the world , and that for fewer and more unjust causes then any who ever did carry the name of a separatist , to this day did pretend . this seemes to bee the reason why both apollonius and spanheim very excellent divines , have begun their dispute with this question . for the stating of the controversie , consider how it stands betwixt us and the independents at this time ; the brownists for their separation were wont to alledge the impurity of our worship , the corruption of our government , the open prophanesse of the most in our congregations . by the mercy of god , the first is fully reformed , at least so farre according to the minde of our brethren , that they have entred no dissenting vote to any one passage of the directory for worship : the government also is so farre cleared in the assemblie , that they have entered their dissent from no part of it , except that alone which concerns the iurisdiction of presbyteries and synods ; and their dissent herein , might and still may well be so carried as not to occasion any breach . but the third is the great cause of division , wherein they much out-runne the brownists ; for they did never offer to separate upon this ground alone ; and the matter whereupon here they stumbled , was only open profanenesse and that incorrigible , either through want of power or want of care to remedy it . if the profanenesse was not open and visible , or if the church had her full power to execute discipline , and according to her power made conscience really to censure scandalls : these things as i conceive , would have abundantly satisfied the brownists , and cured their separation . but the independents now doe draw them up much higher then they were wont to stand ; they teach them to stumble not only at open profanenesse , but at the want of true grace ; yea , at the want of convincing signes of regeneration : they teach them to require not only a power and care in the church to censure such profanenesse , but also a power in every member of the church to keep out all others with whom they are not satisfied in the truth of their grace ; so the question is not as usually it is made , of the quality of the members of the church , but of the necessity to separate from that church wherein we are not satisfied by convincing signs of the true faith and grace of every member at their first admission . wee grant it is earnestly to be wished , and all lawfull meanes would diligently bee used both by pastors and people , to have all the members of a church most holy and gratious , and what ever lawfull overture our brethren can invent for this end , we with all our heart will embrace it , or else be content to beare much blame ; we grant also , that it is the duty of church-governours to keep off every scandalous person from profaning to their own damnation the holy things of the lord ; and that it is the duty of these governours not only to suspend from the holy table all scandalous persons but farther to cast all such out of the church without respect of persons in the case of obstinacy , when by no meanes they can bee brought to satisfactory repentance ; we grant also , that church-governours deficient in these duties , ought themselves to be disciplined by the rod of church-censures ; these things were never controverted . but the question is , whether because of the admission of some to church-membership who have not given satisfaction to every member of the church in the point of their reall regeneration , a church may lawfully be separated from , as vitiously constitute , for that essentiall defect in its very matter ? our brethrens constant and resolute practice albeit gilded over with many faire words , maketh this to be the cleare state of the question , against which i reason thus : first , what to moses and the prophets was not a sufficient cause of separation from the churches of their time , is not a sufficent cause for us to separate from the churches in our times . but , want of satisfaction by convincing signes of the true grace of many members of the church , was not a sufficient cause for moses and the prophets to separate in their times . ergo : the minor is cleare and uncontroverted ; for moses and the prophets were so farre from separating from the churches of their dayes for want of assurance of the true grace of every person in these churches that they remained still to their dying day in the bosome of these churches , comumnicating with them in the word , prayer , sacraments and sacrifices , though they were assured of the evident wickednesse of the most of their fellow-members . moses knew the body of israel to bee a crooked and perverse generation : isaiah tells the iewes that they were another sodom ; ieremy sheweth that israel in his dayes was uncircumcised in heart , no better then moab , ammon , or edom ; micah , that the godly in his time were very rare as the summer fruits , as the grapes after the vintage ; of this truth all the prophets are full ; yet for all this , none of the prophets did ever think of a separation . all the difficulty then is in the major , which thus we prove : the church in the dayes of moses and the prophets , was one and the same with the church of our dayes : the house of god , the body of christ , the elect and redeemed people , the holy nation , the peculiar treasure and spouse of the lamb : the difference of the true church in any age is at most but in accidentall circumstances , and not in any essentials : so what ever morall evill doth defile the church now , and is a just cause of ejection or separation , that must be so at all times , especially , under the old testament , where all the ceremoniall differences that are alledged betwixt the church then and now , make for the strengthning of the argument ; for then the causes of separation were stricter and smaller ; a little ceremoniall pollution would then have kept out of the sanctuary ; much more a morall uncleannesse would have made the sacrifice abominable . if therefore at that time the matter in hand was no cause of separating from the church , much lesse can it be so now , when god hath given a greater liberty to the church in her majority , and when christians are not so easily infected by their neighbours sinnes as of old in the dayes of the churches infancy they were ; idolatry , false doctrine , open profanenesse , were then most abominable , and more terribly punished then now , by the totall destruction of whole cities and countries wherein they were entertained ; also the duty of mutuall inspection and admonition , the contempt whereof is made the grand cause of separation , was most clearly enjoyned in the old testament . what here is replyed , that all separation from the iewish church was simply impossible , because then there was no other church in the whole earth to goe to : we answer , that the replyers themselves will say that a separation must be where there is just cause , and where a person cannot abide without pollution and sin , although there be no other church for him to go to ; for they make it better for men to live alone separate from all , then to abide in any church where they cannot live without the participation of their neighbours sinnes . we answer further , that it was easie for the godly under the law to have joyned together in the service of god , and to have excluded the wicked thence ; and whereas it is said that this could not bee done , because the censure of excommunication was not then in being ; we answer , the gospel makes it cleare ; that casting out of the synagogue which was reall excommunication , was frequent in the old testament ; as also the keeping off from the service with a great deale of circumspection all who were unfit by any legall pollution , much more by any known morall uncleannesse ; kings themselves when polluted , were removed from the altar and put out of the sanctuary . again , i reason thus ; that which moved not christ and his apostles to separate from the church of their time , is no cause to us of separation ; but , want of satisfaction by convincing signes of the true grace of every member of the church , was to them no cause of separation from the churches of their times , ergo. the major is cleare , except we desire a better pattern for our practices then christ and his apostles ; what ever carrieth us beyond their line , must be high presumption and deep hypocrisie . the minor is cleare , by many scriptures ; the scribes and pharisees were a generation of vipers ; ierusalem worse then sodom and gomorrah ; corasin and bethsaida was worse then tyrus and sidon , and to be cast lower in hell then these : yet the lord did not give over to preach , to pray , to go to the temple with them . iudas when a declared traytor , did not scarre him , nor any of his company from the sacrament . after he went from the table , when his wickednesse was revealed that a devill was in him ; yet none of the apostles offered to cast themselves out of the body because this wicked member was not cut off . many members of the apostolick churches were so farre from convincing signes of true grace , that the works of the flesh were most evident in their life . in the corinthians , fundamentall errours , open idolaty , grievous scandall , bitter contentions , profanation of the lords table . in the galatians , such errours as destroyed grace , and made christ of none effect . in the church of ephesus , of laodicea , and the other golden candlesticks , divers members were so evidently faulty , that the candlestick is threatned to be removed ; yet from none of these churches did any of the apostles ever separate , nor gave they the least warrant to any of their disciples to make a separation from any of them . a third argument . the want of that which never was to bee found in any church , is no just cause of separation : but satisfaction by convincing arguments of the true grace of every member , was never to be found in any church . the major is unquestionable for what is not , cannot have any operation ; non entis nulla sunt accidentia . the minor is demonstrable ; from the nature of a visible church , it is such a body whose members are never all gracious , if we believe scripture ; it is not like the church invisible , the church of the elect. it is an heterogeneous body , the parts of it are very dissimilar , some chaffe , some corne , some wheat , some tares ; a net of fishes good and bad ; a house wherein are vessels of honour and dishonour , a fold of sheep and goats , a tree of green and withered branches , a table of guests , some with , some without a wedding garment ; in a word , every visible church is a society wherein many are called , few chosen ; except therefore we will alter the nature of all visible churches whereof scripture speaks , we must grant that in every church there are some members which have no true grace ; and if so , how can they give convincing and satisfactory signes of that which is not to be found . hypocrites may make a shew without , of that which is not within ; but shall we lay an obligation upon every hypocriticall member of a church to be so eminently skilfull in the art of counterfeiting as to produce in the midst of his gracelesnesse , so cleare , so evident and satisfactory signes of his true grace , as may convince the hearts of every one of the church that the thing is within the mans breast which certainly is not there ? the fourth argument , the want of that which cannot reasonably be supposed of every member of a congregation , is no just cause of separation from any church ; but satisfaction &c. ergo. the major is cleare ; for if the want of such satisfaction be a just cause of separation from the church ; then the presence of such a satisfaction is very requisite to be in every member , as a necessary meane to keep it in union with that church . the minor , that such a satisfaction may not justly be supposed in every member of a congregation ; for this would import these foure things , all which are unreasonable . first , that every member of a congregation is to have power to try all its fellow-members , to let them in or hold them out , according as in this triall he is satisfied : this is a large limb of the brownistick anarchy , putting the key of authority and iurisdiction into the hand of every church-member ; if all the independents will defend this , let them speak it out plainly . secondly , it requires a great deale of more ability in every member of every church , then can be found in any mortall man : for not to speak of the impossibility of a grounded and certaine perswasion of true grace in the heart of an hypocrite , who hath no grace at all : how is it possible to attaine unto any grounded certainty of true grace in the heart of any other man ? for the hid man of the heart , and the new name , are not certainly known to any but to such as have them . the grounds of a mans own certain perswasion , the act of his faith either direct or reflex , the witnesse of his conscience , or the seale of the spirit , cannot go without his own breast : all the demonstrations which can be made to another , are so oft found false , that in understanding men they can breed at most but a fallible opinion or a charitable hope , which is farre from any certainty either of sense or science , much more of faith or immediate revelation . thirdly , it layeth a burthen unsupportable to the strongest , upon the conscience of every weak one ; they must ever be in perplexity and doubt what to do , whether to stay in the church , or under the pain of sin to separate from it till they have accurately examined , and after all needfull triall attained to a full satisfaction and assurance of minde of the regeneration of every member , were they never so many of that church whereunto he belongeth : the burden of such a task might break the back of the strongest pastor , much more of a silly lamb. fourthly , this presupposeth that all congregations must of new be gathered , and all their members admitted of new , which none may grant who minds not for the independents pleasure at once to dissolve all the reformed churches , and to avow that every person though born in the true church , within the covenant of grace sealed in baptism with the seale of god , religiously educated in the feare and knowledge of god , is notwithstanding without the church , and no member of the body of christ , till he be admitted to the lords supper . ordinarily in all chistendom persons are actuall members of the church wherein they were borne of faithfull parents , baptised and christianly educated , before they be admitted to the holy table . the case and question of admitting members by a congregation after all are convinced of the true grace of him who craveth membership among them , is but a new , rash , unjust case of the independents , which will inferre the gathering of new churches , the dissolution of all our old ones , and lay a high royall street for anabaptism , excluding all our baptised children from church-membership till they give personall satisfaction of their true grace , and enter into a formall expresse covenant . i adde but one other reason ; no reall absurdity doth follow upon any divine truth ▪ but divers reall absurdities follow necessarily upon the ground of separation in hand . ergo , the ground of separation in hand is no divine truth , but an evill errour . the major no man controverts ; for every true consequent is a stream that flowes out of the antecedent as its fountaine ; as the fountain is bitter or sweet , so are the streams ; from a true antecedent a false consequent by no force can be extorted ; if the consequent be rotten , it is a sure sign the antecedent is not sound . the absurd consequents i name for the proofe of the minor , are , first , that then it shall be necessary to separate from all the churches that are this day in the world , except alone from these of the independent way ; for no other church doth so much as intend or assay to give assurance to every one of their members of the true grace of all the rest ; but on the contrary they teach such an endeavour to be both impossible and unreasonable . the absurdity of the consequent is so cleare , that i pursue it no farther then to this dilemma ; if it be necessary to separate from all the churches of the world but the independents ; then , all other churches but theirs are false , or else it is lawfull to separate from churches that are true ; but , neither of these will sound well in a protestant eare . the second absurd consequent , that then it was necessary to separate from all other churches that have been in any former time ; for not one of them ever , no not the greatest schismaticks , the novatians , the donatists themselves did ever minde that every one of their members should so narrowly examine all their fellows , as to come to a certain perswasion of their reall regeneration . the third consequent , that then to the worlds end no church anywhere can have any solid foundation ; for this principle is a mountain of quick-silver that rests not till all the churches builded upon it be quite overthrown . the conviction of every members conscience of the true faith and grace of all their fellow-members , is so sandy a foundation , that nothing builded upon it can stand . what else hath broken in halfes , and quarters , and demi-quarters these separate societies ? what made them of amsterdam first break off from england , then from holland , and all the reformed , then among themselves once and the second time ? what made smith at leyden , after he had fallen off from england , next to leave the brownists , and after the anabaptists , till at last he broke off from all christians to the arrian heresie ? what else doth drive many of old and of new-england , when they have run about the whole circle of the sects , at last to break out into the newest way of the seekers , and once for all to leap out of all churches , betaking themselves to their devotions apart : here indeed it is , and no where else , where they come to a possibility of satisfaction of the inward estate of these in their way , that is of themselves alone . this is the reward of presumptuous errour ; it cannot rest when it hath led the seduced soule about the whole round of the fancies of the time , till at last it throw it out of all that is called or so much as pretended to be a church . the reasons alledged for the opposite tenet , may be seen in the brownists apology , also in robinsons iustification , in cans necessity of separation , in barrows discovery ; but for shortnesse we will only consider what is brought by mr cotton in his way of the churches ; for there , the best of the brownists arguments are brought in the greatest lustre and strength which mr cotton thought meet to put upon them . also what there is brought by mr cotton , is acknowledged by our brethren as their judgement , without the haesitation of any marginall asterisk , which when they dissent or doubt , they professe to affix to some other passages of that book . the best form i can set on his first argument , is this ; if every member of each church is not only in profession , but in sincerity and truth to be a saint and faithfull ; then , the officers and body of each church must take triall , and be satisfied of the true faith and sanctification of every person before they receive him into the church ; but , every member of each church is not only in profession , but in sincerity and truth to be a saint and faithfull ; ergo , the officers and body of each church must take triall , and be satisfied of the true faith and sanctification of every person before they receive him into the church . all the proofe is bestowed upon the minor from these scriptures which make all the members of the church to bee saints by calling , and faithfull brethren : the church it selfe to be the body of christ , the temple of the holy ghost , the spouse of christ , the sons and daughters and children of god. we answer that no part of this argument is sound . the major , minor , and conclusion are vitious . first , the conclusion commeth not neare the question ; for were it granted , it concludes no more but a duty of the church-officers and members to try and be satisfied about the state of these who are to bee received into the church , but it hath no word of an other duty which is the point in question : it speaks nothing of a necessity to separate from a church upon the neglect of the former duty ; this alone is the state of the present controversie , which neither is expressed nor by any consequence doth follow from any thing that is expressed in this conclusion : for suppose it were a duty laid by god upon every church-officer and member , to enquire accurately after the faith and sanctification of all to be received among them , and to expect satisfaction in their tryall ; yet i hope that every neglect of duty in the church-officers , much lesse in every church-member , and least of all the want of successe of a duty truly performed , will not be found a just and necessary cause for every one to separate from a church ; if all this be not expersly concluded , this arrow misseth the marke . secondly , that which is expressed in the conclusion , pitcheth only upon one particular case , which the reformed churches neither do nor may acknowledge ; for it speaks only of admission of members upon their confession of sins . this fits well the practice of the brownists , who suppose a necessity to dissolve the reformed churches that now are as vitiously constituted from their first beginning . they may seeme to have reason in their gathering of new churches , to put their members to tryall before admission ; but the reformed churches who take themselves to be so farre true , that they need no dissolution or new erection , are not concerned in this case of admission ; for their members were borne in the church , and had the covenant sealed to them in baptisme ; what tryall they take of their children when they admit them to the lords table , is no wayes for their admission to be members ; for this practice is a maine pillar of anabaptisme ; and our brethrens engagement therein , is the ground of all their sympathy and symbolising with that sect : so then the conclusion commeth short of the question , and toucheth not the reformed churches , but is builded on the pillars of rigid separation and anabaptisme , taking that for granted which no reformed church may admit , but upon hard termes ; no milder then the nullity and dissolution of all their churches : that out of the rubbish , a new building may bee erected after the separatists patterne . the major also is vitious ; for suppose the antecedent of it were true , yet there is no force therein to inferre the consequent ; be it so , that every church-member ought to be so holy as you will ; yet , can this inferre the peoples power to try that holinesse which is the one halfe of the consequent ? such a power in the people would make every one of them a church-governour , which none of the reformed churches , nor the halfe of the separatists themselves will admit ; and they who doe plead for it , set it upon other pillars but no man i know deduceth it from any thing in the antecedent now in hand . for the rest of the consequent , the officers satisfaction in the true and sincere grace of the members at their first admission , if it have any truth , yet it commeth too short of reason , and runnes also farre beyond the most rigid separatists . if a tryall must be made of church-members , why at their first admission alone and never after ? is it not an ordinary case in all churches , and as much among the brownists and independents as any other , that many who at first have been taken for truly regenerate , have thereafter fallen to such errours in judgement and such practices in life , as have given just ground to conclude the irregeneration of some , and to doubt the regeneration of others ? now , if the uncertainty of regeneration , be a just cause to hold a man out of all churches , is it not as just a cause to cast a man out of a church , when by doctrine or life , this uncertainty appears , which at first was covered ? yet none of our brethren affirm that the uncertainty of regeneration , nor the certainty of irregeneration is a just ground to cast any man out of the church who once is come in . the consequent also runs wide of the rigid separatists ; for the holinesse they require , is expresly externall , which may stand with the internall wickednesse of hypocrites ; but the consequent speaks of inward sincerity contradistinguished from all outward professions . the minor is the part of the argument which they labour to fortifie , knowing the greatest weight to lie upon it : we do deny it as a very dangerous errour ; every member of a visible church is not in truth and sincerity a believer and saint : this is against scripture and all experience in every visible church ; all who are called are not chosen : in the field of god there are tares among the wheat , in his fold goats amongst the sheep , in his net bad fishes among the good , in his house vessels for dishonour , not for honour only . in the best churches of the scripture , we have too many bad members , iudas , ananias and saphira , simon magus , hymeneus and philetus , demas and the like ; they dare not deny but some gracelesse hypocrites are in their best congregations ; and if they should deny it , the frequent out-breaking of their enormities to the eyes of the world would extort their confession . the proofes they bring , come not up to the question ; that in the first of the corinthians , first and second , sanctified in christ , and called to bee saints ; if yee understand it of an outward calling alone , it is not pertinent ; if of an inward efficacious call , it is true not of every member , but of some onely , and is attributed to the whole church of corinth indefinitely , because of these some , who truly were elected , justified , and sanctified ; but that this was not true of all and every one of that church , is cleare by the apostles complaint of many among them ; of some for incest , of others for injurious defrauding of their neighbours , of some for carnall schismes , of others for prophane drunkennesse at the lords table it selfe , of others for fundamentall errours . the first of the gal. . v . hath nothing sounding toward the present question ; but the fourth verse is brought by the brownists to something neare it ; that christ had dyed for the galatians sinnes and separated them from this present evill world ; if this import any true grace , yet it may not bee applyed to every member of that church ; for in the words following , the apostle beareth witnesse that sundry of them were removed to another gospel ; that they were foolish and bewitched to rebell against the truth . the relation of the church to the persons of the trinity , that it is the body and spouse of christ , the temple of the holy ghost , the sonnes and daughters of the father , must be understood as many such priviledges , of the universall and invisible church ; or when any of them are to be applyed to a particular visible church , they must be understood of that church not according to every one , but only the living and gracious members thereof . that such priviledges of the catholicke invisible church when they are applyed to a particular visible congregation , are to be understood according to this distinction of members , robinson him selfe while yet in his rigid separation , grants it expresly . the places thus expounded , prove not the point ; for grant to every congregation so high priviledges as you will , yet if they must be verified of that congregation only according to some members , and not according to all ; if they be to be understood only of the elect in that congregation who have the sanctifying spirit of christ , not of many others who are dead in nature , and yet are such members who have right from god according to our brethrens own tenet , to perform church acts , such as are the preaching of the gospel , the celebration of the sacraments , the admission of members , the execution of censures , with such authority from christ , as makes all these acts truly valid for the comfort and salvation of the elect ; they prove not the true grace of every person whom we must acknowledge to be a true member of a church . if you will extend these places to every singular member of particular visible churches , as indeed the argument if it have any strength , doth import , the absurdity will be great ; for so it will carry to the pelagianisme of arminius in the extent of the true grace of god beyond the elect , to all the members of a visible church ; also to the totall and finall apostacy of many who are the temples of the holy ghost , the members of christ , the faithfull and sanctified children of god : for the argument maketh every member of any visible church to be such , & daily experience proves that many members of every visible church are castawayes . yea , the argument drives further then any of the arminians will follow ; for however , they extend the true and saving grace of god beyond the elect members of a church , yet none of them ever said that this sanctifying and saving grace must be in every person before they can bee admitted members of any church ; for this is that grosse errour which the independents have learned not so much from arminius as socinus , to put all men unconverted without the church , that in this condition they may be converted by the preaching of private men , and if by pastors , yet by their preaching , not as pastors , but as private men dealing with these who are none of their flock , but without the church . neither doe the socinians , so farre as i know , extend their tenet thus farre , as to require all before they be members of the church , to be truly regenerate , as if the only instrument of regeneration and conversion , were the preaching of private men without the church : and the preaching of pastors within the church , did serve only for the continuing of the sence of justification and the encrease of sanctification , as being performed of purpose only unto these persons who at their first entrance into the church while yet they were without and but comming in , have demonstrate the certainty of their enjoying these graces . the second argument . god receives none to be members of the visible church , but those who shall be saved : but the stewards of gods house may receive none but whom god doth receive : ergo , the stewards of gods house may receive none to bee members of a visible church but those who shall be saved . answer . the conclusion is subject to the most of the faults observed upon the conclusion of the former argument , which i doe not repeat ; only consider that this conclusion beareth expresly that none may be members of a visible church but these who shall be saved , and so who are truly elect. we would not be deceived with their distinctions of inward and outward holinesse , of seeming and reall grace , of charitable and veritable discerning ; for this and the other argument inferres flatly that no other must be received as members in a visible church but such as first are tryed and found to bee really holy , and who shall be saved . we answer therefore to the minor , that it is evidently false for the reasons which we brought upon the minor of the former argument . the place of the acts brought for the proofe of it is detorted ; such as were to be saved were added to the church ; is this indefinite proposition to be understood universally , that all who were to be saved were added to the church ? the former argument maketh this no necessary truth ; for if men must be justified , sanctified , and put in the way of salvation before they be added to the church , then though they were never added to the church , they may well bee saved . they would doe well here to remember their own ordinary practice , contrary to that which here they professe to be the way of god. why doe they not adde to their church all that are to be saved ? why exclude they many whom they grant to be truly gracious and elect , upon this ground alone that they cannot approve of their independency or covenant ? or suppose the proposition to be universall ; yet , must it be reciprocall and convertible ? be it so , that all who were to be saved , were added to the church : yet , must all who are added to the church be saved ? this is an evident untruth . will they that all the members of their church must be saved ? or doe they think that all the persons of their churches who shall not be saved , were never true members of their visible church ? iudas was made a member of the apostolick society by christ , and many men were brought into the visible church by the prophets and apostles , who shall not be saved . shall damnation and want of true grace cast them all out of the true church , and take from them their power and right , to do the actions of a church-member ? the third argument . if it be put in any forme , will readily fall under the exceptions of the first ; but since the author puts no forme upon it , i shall only consider its matter . it consists of the misapplication of three scriptures , first of peters confession , mat●h . . they alledge that such a profession of faith as the father reveales to particular persons , is the ground of a visible church , and so who ever is a member of that church , must both professe faith , and have the spirit to indite that profession . answer , this is a strange argument . for first , we may not admit that the church founded upon the rock is every particular visible church : the priviledges of the catholike and visible church , which the iesuites by all their wrestlings have never been able to extort from us for their idoll of rome , shall we throw them away upon every independent congregation ? how unstable rocks these congregations are , and how easily by small tentations shaken in pieces , themselves may remember . secondly , the rock whereupon the church is builded , is christ , whom peter did confesse ; we may not make any mans profession , were it never so cleere and never so zealous , the foundation of the church in such a fashion , that the ignorance or hypocrisie of any man may remove the foundation of any church . thirdly , shall no man be a member of a church , till the holy ghost dictate unto him such a confession of faith as he did unto peter ? if none but the elect and those who are filled with the holy ghost , may be members of churches , the anabaptists have won the field . however , what here is alledged , is not true of peter himselfe who long before that confession was a member of the church . the second place mis-applied , is the reproofe of the guest for his comming to the lords feast without the wedding-garment ; whereupon is inferrd the duty of the church to hold out all who want the wedding-garment of true grace . answ . this conclusion is not only beside , but against the text , vers . . . the servants are commanded to invite as many as they could finde both good and bad ; they had no commission to hold out any for want of the wedding-garment , for that garment was within upon the soule unperceptible by any but his eye who searches the heart and the reynes . the apostles in their search went not beyond a blamelesse profession ; and experience may teach our brethren , that themselves are able to reach no farther , finding after all their triall so many in their purest congregations whom time declares to want that garment . the third place mis-applyed , is the parable of the tares , as if the tares came into the church by the sleepinesse of the servants . answ . this also is a bold addition to scripture : it is not said , while the servants sleeped , but while men sleeped , noting no negligence in men who did sleep when it was seasonable and necessary for them to sleep ; but only the secret and dark time of the night , or the secret , dark , and imperceptible way of satan his working in hypocrites , and corrupting the church . however , this part of the parable is no wayes argumentative ; for christ in his full application toucheth not at all upon this circumstance ; but the maine scope of the parable declareth to us the nature of the visible church upon earth , contrary to the argument in hand , that christ doth not intend to have upon earth any church wherein the tares shall not be mixed with the wheat ; for if he did not finde in his wisedome the expediency of this administration , hee could in his power easily alter or prevent it . their fourth argument is drawn from the second to timothy , . . who have a form of godlinesse , but deny the power of it , from such we must turne away . ergo , who are not found to have positive and satisfactory signes of regeneration , ought not to be admitted members of any church . answ . the consequent is naught ; for the strength of it will lie in this proposition , every professor who bringeth not demonstrative signes of his regeneration and true grace , is a man who hath the forme of godlinesse and denyeth the power thereof . how false this is , both the text and our brethrens practice will evidence . the text puts it out of doubt , that the men whom the apostle calls the denyers of the power of godlinesse , are persons openly scandalous and flagitious , as the verses both before and after doe demonstrate ; even such whom the apostle describes , tit. . abominable , disobedient , and to every good work reprobate . now it is cleare that many professors who are not able to bring out any convincing signes of their regeneration , are notwithstanding free from all scandall ; and however many hypocrites can goe beyond them in making faire and satisfactory shewes to men : yet sundry of them may be the elect children of god , and really most gracious in his eyes , how unable or unwilling soever they be to make this much appeare to the world . secondly , the men whom the apostle speaks of , are to be cast out of the church after their admission ; but our brethren will not cast out all of whose regeneration they are not convinced , after once they are admitted ; for if so , excommunication in every church would become too frequent . their fifth argument is this ; no hypocrite , none who at last will leave their first love , are to be admitted in the church ; for all such will ruine the church , and procure the removing of the candlestick : but all that cannot prove their regeneration convincingly , are such . answ . this is a bold and rash argument , laying a necessity to exclude all hypocrites from the church , and all such as may fall away from any degree of their first love . we answer then that the minor is very false ; for many gracious persons farre from hypocrisie , and free from all decay of their first love , may be unable to satisfie themselves or others in the certaine truth of their regeneration . but the major is more false , against the practise of christ and the apostles , who did alwayes receive divers hypocrites ; and our brethren dare not deny that they do so also ; for their churches consist not all of reall saints . however the very text alledged proveth our tenet ; for ephesus to christ , there is a most true church , notwithstanding their fall from their first love , and his threatning of them with the removall of their candlestick if they did not repent . unto this fifth they subjoyne as appendices , two other arguments taken from the ancient types under the law. the first , the stones in solomons temple were not laid rough in the building ; ergo ▪ men irregenerate must not bee admitted members of a christian church . answ . this is a wanton argument ; though the temple might be a type of every congregation : and the stones of temple , of the members of a particular visible church ; yet that the roughnesse of the stones should be a type of irregeneration , and above all , that the place of hewing these stones should be a type , and that argumentative , to inferre that the place of our vocation , regeneration , justification and sanctification must be without the church ; and that it is necessary we be like a stone perfectly hewen before wee be laid in the church building : this is a kinde of ratiocination which solid divinity will not admit . the other typicall argument is this ; the porters excluded uncleane persons from the temple ; therefore , the officers ought to keep the irregenerate from the church . answ . there is no argumenting from symbolick types , except where the spirit of god in scripture applies a type to such a signification and use . where did our brethren learne to make the porters of the temple types of the church-officers . their people will not bee content to be cheated of the keyes by such symbolizing . if they will make the temple a type , not only of christs body and the church universall , but of every congregation ; yet by what scripture will they make legall uncleannesse typifie the estate of irregeneration ? and above all , how will they make the exclusion from the temple for legall uncleanesse , a type of rejection from church-membership for irregeneration ? nothing more common then legall cleanesse in a person irregenerate , and legall uncleanesse in a person regenerate . legall uncleanesse did never hinder any from church-membership under the old testament , albeit for a time it might impede their fellowship in some services ; but irregeneration did never hinder communion in any service . it is a question whether very scandalous sins did keep men ceremonially clean from the temple and sacrifices ; but out of all doubt irregeneration alone was never a bar to keep any from the most holy and most solemn services , whether of the tabernacle or temple . there are two other arguments couched in the conclusion of the debate . first , from the of matth. iohn the baptist excluded the scribes and pharisees and the profane people from his baptism ; ergo , the officers and body of the people should not admit irregenerate people to be members of the church . ans . the consequence is not good from iohn the baptist to all the officers and body of the people , nor from baptism or any sacrament to church-membership , nor from the scribes , pharisees and profane people , to every irregenerate person : what loosnesse is in such reasoning ? but the worst is that the antecedent is clearly against the places of scripture alledged . iohn the baptist did not exclude either the scribes or the pharisees or the common people from his baptism , but received all that came , both the scribes and pharisees , and ierusalem , and all iudea , and all the region about iordan , requiring no other condition for their admission to his sacrament then the confession of sinne and promising of new obedience , acts very feasable to irregenerate people . his last argument is from acts . philip admitted none to his baptism but upon profession of faith. ergo none should be admitted members of a church without an evidence of their regeneration . for shortnesse i mark but one fault in the consequence , yet a very grosse one , that profession of faith is made a certain argument of true grace and sanctification . will any of our brethren be content to admit their members upon so slender tearms as philip or any of the apostles did require of their new converts ? will the profession that iesus is the christ , or such a confession of faith as simon magus and all the people of samaria men and women , after a little labour of philip among them , could make , be an evident and convincing signe of regeneration ? thus we have considered all mr cottons arguments : let any man according to his conscience , pronounce what strength he findes in any of them ; whether or not in them all together there be such firmnesse as to sustaine the unspeakable weight that is in the conclusion builded upon them ; i mean a necessity of separation from all the reformed churches except these of the indepent way : i may adde , from them also and all else that ever have been in the world from the beginning to this houre ; for in none of them these hard conditions of satisfactory evidences of regeneration before persons can be admitted members , were ever so much as required ; and among the independents where these conditions have been required , they were never found , nor possibly can be found as they doe require them . chap. viii . concerning the right of prophecying . the second question i propounded , concerneth the dogmatick power , so to call it , of their church-members . they teach that the power of prophesie or publike preaching both within and without the congregation , belongeth to every man in their church who hath ability to speak in publike to edification . the reformed churches give this power only to pastors and doctors who are called by god and the church to labour in the word . they do not deny to every christian all true liberty in private as god gives them occasion , in an orderly way to edifie one another , nor do they deny to the sons of the prophets who are fitting themselves for the pastorall charge , to exercise their gifts in publike for their preparation and triall ; but publike preaching they do not permit to any who are not either actually in the ministry or in the way unto it . the socinians and arminians , the better to advance their design of everting the publike ministry , do put it in the hand of any able man to preach the word and celebrate the sacraments . the brownists upon the mistake of some scriptures , give liberty to any of their members whom their church thinks able to preach . mr cotton and his brethren in new-england , did follow for a long time the brownists in this practise ; yet of late feeling as it would seem , the great inconveniency of this liberty of prophecying , they are either gone or going from it ; for in their two last books , the way of their churches , and the keyes , they not only passe this popular prophesying in silence , but also do evert the chiefe grounds whereupon before they did build it ; our brethren here of holland and london , seem not yet to be accorded about it ; these of arnhem did to the last day of their churches standing maintaine it ; their gentlemen preaching ordinarily in the absence of their ministers ; but at roterdam , mr bridge would never permit it ; yet mr simpson thought it so necessary an ordinance , that the neglect of it was the cheife cause of his secession from mr bridge , and erecting a new church ; neither ever could these two churches be united till after both mr bridges and mr simpsons removall ; their successor did find a temper in this question , permitting the exercise of prophesie , not in the meeting place of the congregation , but in a private place on a week day ; our brethren at london are for this exercise , not only upon the former grounds , but especially to hold a doore open for themselves to preach in the parish-churches where they neither are nor ever intend to be pastors , only they preach as gifted men and prophets , for the conversion of these who are to be made members of their new congregations . the reasons we bring for our tenet , are these . first , who ever have power to preach the word ordinarily , have also power to baptise . but only ministers have power to baptise : ergo , only ministers have power to preach the word ordinarily . the minor how ever the arminians and some few of the late brownists deny , yet all the independents grant it ; but they deny the major , which we prove by two scripturall reasons ; first , christ conjoyns the power of baptism with the power of preaching ; ergo , who have the power of preaching have also the power of baptising , which christ hath anexed to it , matth. . . go and teach all nations , baptising them . their reply that christ speaks here of apostles and not of ordinary ministers , is not satisfactory ; for he speaks both of apostles and ordinary ministers because of such officers who were to remain in the church unto the end of the world , and with whose ministry he was alwayes and ever to be present as it followeth in verse . but the church from that time to the worlds end , was not to be served by apostles only , who soon after were removed , but by ordinary pastors also , the apostles successors . moreover , there is no reason for the connexion of baptism and preaching in the person of the apostles that will not hold as well if not better in the person of ordinary ministers . our other proofe of the major , is this . the power of preaching is more then the power of baptisme ; ergo , who have the first , have the second also . the antecedent is manifest from cor. . . christ sent me not to baptise but to preach ; to intimate the excellency of the one above the other ; the apostle declares not only his seldome practice of the one , but denyeth his commission for it in comparison of the other . the second argument ; who ever have power to preach are sent of god to preach . but , these who have no office in the church are not sent of god to preach , ergo : they that have no office in the church have no power to preach . the major is grounded on rom. . . how shall they preach except they be sent ? the minor may bee proved , not only from the nature of the thing , the calling of god to preach , and a mans ordinary preaching on gods call importing an office and charge to do such a work : but also from the place in hand compared with its fountaine , whence it is derived isay . . thy watchmen shall lift up the voyce , where it is cleare that these whom the lord sends to preach are watchmen , from whose hand the blood of them , that die without warning will be required , ezeck . . . who watch for the peoples soules as they who must give an account , heb. . . which is not true of any man who hath no charge . every ordinary preacher labours in the word and doctrine ; no man out of office labours in the word and doctrine ; for labouring in the word and doctrine , is the character and specifick difference of the pastor and doctor , whereby they are distinguished from the ruling elder , tim. . . this character and form of the prime officers cannot be given to men out of all office . the major is proved from the very terms of the proposition , for no man can acquire an ability to preach ordinarily the word in the congregation and to exercise that gift for the churches edification without great and constant labouring in that word . fourthly , every preacher of the word hath gotten a gift from christ for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministry , for the edifying of the body of christ ; but , no man out of office hath gotten such a gift ; ergo. the major they do not deny , for they make the ground of their prophets preaching to be their gift to edifie the church . the minor thus we prove , apostles , evangelists , prophets , pastors and doctors , are not out of office . but , all who have received such gifts , are apostles , &c. ergo , none who have received such gifts are out of office . the major none will deny ; the minor is grounded on ephes . . . & . where there is a perfect enumeration of all the teaching gifts which christ gave to the church for edification ; of these are reckoned up only five , apostles , &c. and to gods perfect numbers men may not adde . fifthly , it was unlawfull for men out of office to sacrifice ; ergo , it is unlawfull for men out of office to preach . the consequence lieth in the parity of preaching to sacrificing , the one being as great an honour if not a greater then the other ; for i suppose it will be granted that the sacraments of the new testament are in many respects more excellent then the sacrifices of the old . now preaching as we have proved before , is more excellent then baptism , a sacrament of the new testament . the antecedent is proved from heb. chap. . v . , . no man taketh this honour to himselfe , viz. to offer up sacrifices , but he that is called of god as was aaron ; so also christ glorified not himselfe to be made an high priest ; here it is made unlawfull both for aaron and christ to offer up sacrifices before they had a calling to be priests . sixthly , whoever have gotten of god a calling or a gift to preach the gospel , they are obliged to keep & encrease their gift , & to improve that calling by giving themselves wholy to reading , by laying aside all worldly occupations , & not intangling themselves with the things of this life ; but , no man out of office is thus obliged . ergo. the minor they grant , for they will not have their prophets to be so much in reading as may distract them from their worldly trade and civill occupation : the major is proved from tim. cha . . ver . . , . where timothy is commanded to keep his gift of preaching by the meanes named . the reason is alike to all that have that gift , whether they have it by prophesie , & laying on of the hands of the presbytery as timothy had it , or any otherwayes : for the gifts of god however gotten , must not bee neglected , and the meanes prescribed of god for the entertaining of these gifts may not bee slighted , least of all by them in whom the gift is but mean and small ; they of all others have most need of the strongest meanes to make their smoking flax to burn : beside , publick preaching is a faculty of that nature , that all the reading and attendance which any man can bestow upon it , will have enough ado to support and entertaine it in any usefull and edifying condition . seventhly , none may lawfully preach but such as the apostles appointed to preach . but , the apostles appointed no man out of office to preach . the minor alone is questionable ; which thus we prove . the apostles appointed no others to preach but elders ; ergo , none out of office . the antecedent we have from titus . . that thou shouldest ordaine elders in every city as i had appointed thee . eightly , the permitting of private men out of office to preach , is a great meanes of confusion in the church and breeding of errors and strife ; ergo , it s not of god. the antecedent is made too cleare by daily experience ; the consequence is builded upon the nature of god who is a god and author of truth and order ; what is from him , is conduceable to these ends , not to the contrary . the opposite arguments are many . robinson while yet he was , as i suppose , in the height of his separation , did fill a whole book with them ; the best of these arguments whereupon our brethren are pleased to pitch , be these following . first , in the church of corinth , men out of office did ordinarily preach in the congregation ; ergo , it is lawfull to doe so still . answ . we may either deny , or distinguish the antecedent : they that preached in the place alledged , were prophets , and so not out of off●ce . secondly , they who preached there , were men endued with extraordinary gifts , whose practice can be no pattern to the churches now a dayes , where these gifts are ceased . that it is so , vers . . makes cleare , where the prophets doe preach extemporary revelations . also mr cotton himselfe in his last book of the keyes , p. . doth grant this , and expresly recals what himselfe in his catechism , and both he and his brethren in their answer to the articles , had delivered about prophesying . this ingenuity is amiable , and if it might please god to bring our brethren off the other points of brownisme as fairely , there might be hope quickly of an happy accommodation . their second argument . iehoshaphat and his princes did preach the word . but , iehoshaphat & his princes were not church-officers ; ergo , some who are no church-officers , may preach the word . ans . we deny the major ; for that which is recorded of iehoshaphat , chro. . . was nothing but the kings exhortation to his subjects , to stirre up the levites and iudges to a faithfull discharge of their office ; this was no exposition of the law , nor any dispensing of that knowledge which the priests lips were appointed by god to preserve ; what is spoken of his princes preaching , chron. . , . beside that it was but once in the time of an extraordinary reformation , the way of that teaching is expounded in the following words , not to have been by themselves , but by the levites who carried the book of the law , they only did preach ; the princes accompanied them , and by their civill authority countenanced and assisted them in their preaching . that thus it was , mr cotton confesseth in the above-mentioned place of his keys , avowing that in the church of israel none did preach either in the synagogue or temple , but priests and levites , except they had an extraordinary call to prophesy . thirdly . what we are commanded to regard is lawfull . but , the preaching of men out of office we are commanded to regard thes . . despise not prophecying . answ . we deny the proofe of the minor ; for the prophecying spoken of by the apostle is not the preaching of men out of office , but either of such extraordinary prophets as were in the church of the corinthians and other churches in those primitive times , or else of ordinary pastors who oft in scripture are called prophets , mat. . . he that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet , shall receive a prophets reward ; a prophet is not without honour but in his owne countrey . a pagan poet by the apostle is called a prophet . rev. . . in her was found the blood of the prophets and saints ; and . . i am thy fellow-servant , and of thy brethren the prophets . fourthly , our brethren of new-england bring no more arguments . the rest of robinsons stuffe is not so considerable : he reasoneth thus ; the sons of the prophets did preach , sam. . . kings . . also . . but , the sons of the prophets were men out of office . answ . the major is not proved by the places alledged ; for the first speaks of the prophets , but not of their sons ; the other two speak of the sons of the prophets , but nothing of their preaching : yet we do not deny the major ; for we think it may be proved from other scriptures ; but we deny the minor , that the sons of the prophets were men altogether out of office ; for their call from god , and appointment by the prophets to wait on that service , did give them such a begining and entrance into the office of a prophet that made them capable of an initiall exercise of their begun gifts : so we deny not in the new testament , to men who are destinate to the ministry and in their preparations for it , a power to preach for attaining an habit of that gift wherunto initiall sermons are a necessary means , without which neither the gift nor the calling can be obtained without a miracle . fifthly , robinson reasons thus ; all these whom we ought to wish to be prophets , may lawfully preach . but , we ought to wish all the people of god to be prophets , num. . . would god that all the people of the lord were prophets , and that the lord would put his spirit upon them . ans . we deny the major , because our desire for the enlargement of gods honour and the propagation of his truth , that many more then are , were sent out to preach and baptize giveth not to any man either a gift , or a power , or a calling to preach and baptize , till god and man give the calling . moses wish was , not that all the people should prophecy , but that all might have the office of prophets and the spirit of god to enable them for prophecying . sixthly , the apostles before christs resurrection did preach . but , the apostles before christs resurrection were not in the office of apostleship . answ . the minor must carry that they were men out of all church office , which is eviden●ly false ; for beside that mat. . . they are called expresly apostles at their first mission ; and iudas , acts . . is said to have had the ministry and the apostleship : they did celebrate the sacrament of baptism , which the adversary will grant could not lawfully be done by men out of office . seventhly , paul and barnabas were invited to preach where they were in no office , and by those who did not know them to be in office anywhere , acts . . men and brethren if yee have any word of exhortation for the brethren , say on ; ergo , men out of office may lawfully preach . answ . the antecedent is false , for paul and barnabas were men in office , true prophets and apostles ; their bounds were as large as all nations . beside , a pastor in one church , for the relation he hath to the church universall , upon a lawfull call may preach in any church . also that the rulers of the synagogue did not take paul and barnabas for preachers , is as easily deny'd as affirmd : the same both of their preaching & miracles might easily have come before or with them from cyprus into pysidia . lastly , the scribes and pharisees did expound and preach the law ; but , the scribes and pharisees were in no church office ; for all the offices of the church under the old testament , were in the hands of levites alone : now the scribes and pharisees were not levites but of other tribes . ans . the minor is false ; for the lord tels us that the scribes and pharisees were in church office , that they sate in moses chaire , and were doctors of the law. the confirmation is not good ; for how will they prove that in these times of great confusion , the levites alone had all ecclesiastick offices , not only in the temple about the sacrifices , but in the synagogue about the doctrine and discipline ? also though this were yeelded , yet how will they prove that the scribes and pharisees were of any other tribe then of levi ? chap. ix . whether the power of ecclesiastick iurisdiction belongs to the people or to the presbyterie . the next question concernes the power of ecclesiastick jurisdiction to whom it may be due : by ecclesiastick jurisdiction is understood the admission of members into a church , their casting out againe by excomunication , their reconciliation after repentance , the ordination of officers , their deposition from their charge , the determining of questions , the deciding of controversies and such other acts of ecclesiastick authority . till of late the state of the question here was very cleare and plaine : the reformed churches doe put both the power and the exercise of jurisdiction into the hand of the presbytery , that is , the company of elders , and colledge of church governours . the brownists , and after them the independents did ascribe all these acts to the church , as well without , as with a presbytery : but of late master cotton in his booke of the keyes and his brethren in their synodick meetings of new-england have so subtilized , and as to me it seemes , involved the question with a multitude of new distinctions , that it is very hard to apprehend with any certaintie and clearenesse their meaning , and more hard to reconcile any one with himselfe , much lesse one with another . they would seeme to differ much from the brownists , they stand not to put them in the category of morellius , the first patron of democracie and popular government in the church : they professe a midway of government , well ballanced with a prudent mixture of the officers power with the peoples , giving a part to both , and all to neither : they bring a multitude of distinctions rather to eschew the dint of our former arguments in the darkenesse of these thickets , then to give any light to this very great question . they insist most on two distinctions , whereby they thinke to answer all we bring against them . first , they distinguish betwixt a church organized or presbyterated , as they speake , and a church inorganized and unpresbyterated : the one is a body heterogeneous , a covenanted people with their officers framed in a presbitery ; the other a body homogeneous a people in a church covenant without officers , at least without a presbytery . they would seeme to plead , or else the distinction is for no purpose , for the power onely of an organized and a presbyterated church . if they would stand to this in earnest , and firmely , we should be glad ; for so they should openly desert , not onely the whole race of the brownists , but all their owne former writings , practises , and enervate the best of these very arguments they still adhere unto : for if ye will consider what is written by mr. cotton either in his catechisme , or way , or answer to the thirty two questions , or the arguments that still he insists upon in the keyes , or their generall practise in holland and new-england to this day , you will see that they maintaine the jurisdiction of a church , as well unpresbyterated , without a presbytery , without officers , as of a church presbiterated ; for the power of ordination of officers , and of their deposition , the power of admitting and casting out of members , which are the highest acts of jurisdiction , they ascribe expressely to every church , whether it have , or want officers , as its proper and undeniable priviledge . their other new distinction , wherein openly they applaud so much one another , as it were contending who should have the glory of its invention , is of a double power , one of authority , and another of liberty : ascribing unto a presbyterated church the whole power of jurisdiction and every part of it , both to the officers of their presbytery , and to the people in their fraternity or brotherhood ; but , so that the interest of the officers in every act , is a power of authority which makes that their action only is valid and binding ; but the interest of the people is a power of liberty to concurre in these acts of jurisdiction by an obedientiall , yet a necessary and authoritative concurrence . this new distinction will not serve their turne , for first , it s not applicable to the chiefe acts of jurisdiction in question : their ordination of officers , their admission of members , are done ordinarily by their people alone , without the concurrence of any officers , who then are not in being . secondly , their arguments for the peoples interest in excommunication , absolution , and other acts of jurisdiction , inferre either nothing at all , or much more then that which they call a power of liberty , or of an authoritative concurrence . thirdly , this distinction involves the authors in new unextricable difficulties , it makes the keyes & sword of christ altogether inserviceable in common and ordinary cases , wherein they have most neede and occasion to be set on worke . not onely according to their former principles , they make every congregation uncensurable for any possible crime : but by this new doctrine they confesse , that every presbytery in a congregation becomes uncensurable , and that every people of a congregation becometh uncapable of any censure . yea farther , if the most part of the presbytery , suppose two ruling elders joyne together in the greatest heresies and crimes , the whole people with the rest of the presbitery , suppose the pastor cannot censure these two elders ; also if the greatest part of the people should joyne in the greatest wickednesse , yet the whole presbytery , with the rest of the people that remaine sincere and gracious , cannot censure the wicked . in all these , and divers such ordinary cases , they have no remedy but separation , and alwayes separation upon separation , till their church be dissolved into so small portions that it cannot by more separations be farther divided . but let us consider the arguments upon both sides . first , we reason thus , the people are not the governors of the church , but the acts of ecclesiastick jurisdiction belong to the governors of the church ; ergo , the acts of ecclesiastick jurisdiction belong not to the people . the minor is cleare from the nature of the very termes ; for jurisdiction is either all one with government , or a chiefe part of it : now government is essentially relative to governors . the major is proved by many scriptures , which make the people so farre from being governors , that they are obliged to be subject and obedient to their officers , as to them by whom god will have them governed , heb. . . obey them that have the rule over you , for they watch for your soules as they who must give an account . tim. . . let the elders who rule well , be counted worthy of double honour . thes . . . know them which are over you in the lord , and esteeme them very highly in love for their workes sake . god hath made them pastors , and the people their flocke ; them builders , the people the stones laid by them in the building ; them fathers , the people children begotten by their ministry ; them stewards , the people domesticks under their conduct . secondly , whosoever hath the power of ecclesiasticke jurisdiction , to them the lord hath given the keys of heaven for the remitting and retaining of sinnes . but to none of the people the lord hath given these keys . ergo. the major is not controverted . the minor is thus proved . to whom christ hath given the keys of the kingdome of heaven to retaine and remitt sinnes , they are in some ecclesiasticke office , they are sent out by christ , as christ was by his father , they have some part of the apostles ordinary charge ; but these things are not true of the people . ergo. the major is proved , john. . . as my father hath sent me , so send i you ; and when he had said this , he breathed upon them , and said receive yee the holy ghost ; whose sinnes yee remitte they are remitted , and whose sinnes yee retaine they are retained . what was promised to peter , mat. . is here performed to him and the rest of the apostles , and to their successours in their ordinary office of elders : for this was a power necessary for the church to the end of the world . the minor also is cleare ; for these things were not given to all the disciples , but to the twelve , and to their successours . what was promised to peter , was not promised to every faithfull person , and to every orthodoxe confessour ; for so , all and every one should be bearers of the keys , and ecclesiasticke officers , which is against the scriptures of the first argument . thirdly , to whom these acts of jurisdiction doe belong , they are the eyes , eares , hands , and principall members of the body of christ : for the eminent persons and officers of a church , are compared to these members , because of these actions . but the people are not the eyes , eares , hands ; are not the principall members of the body of christ : for if so , there should be none left in the church to be the feete , or lesse principall members : all should become eyes , and hands , and the church should be made a body homogeneous , contrary to the doctrine of the apostle , . cor. . if they were all one member , where were the body ? but now are they many members , and the eye cannot say to the hand i have no neede of thee , nor the head to the feete i have no neede of you . fourthly , who have a right from god to the acts of jurisdiction , they have a promise of gifts needfull for the performance of these acts . for a divine right and calling to any worke is backed with a promise of gods presence , gifts and assistance in doing of that worke ; but , the people have no promise of any such gifts . for besides that daily experience declares numbers among the people to be altogether destitute of such knowledge , wisedome and other gifts which are necessary for the performance of these acts of jurisdiction : the apostle himselfe teaches that such gifts are not given to all , but to some onely . fifthly , that is not to be given to the people that brings confusion into the church , for the lord is the god of order . but the putting of the power of jurisdiction in the peoples hand , brings confusion into the church , for it makes the feete above the head , it puts the greatest power into the hand of the meanest , it gives power to the flocke to depose and excommunicate their pastour . our brethren were lately wont to digest with the brownists these absurdities : but now they begin to dislike them , and rather then to stand to their prior tenets , they will limit the minor , asserting that the power of jurisdiction belongs to the people not severally , but joyntly with their officers : so that neither they can excommunicate their officers , nor their officers can excommunicate them . but it seemes this new subtilty will not long please the inventors of it , for as we have saide it makes the keys of heaven much more inserviceable for opening and closing then needs must ; when it hath taken the keys out of the hand of all others , and put them in the little weake fist of a particular congregation ; it will not permitt them to open or to close the doore , neither to the people , nor yet to the eldershippe . the eldershippe cannot remitt , nor retaine the sinnes of the brotherhood , nor the brotherhood , of the eldershippe : yea none of the eldershippe can be censured by all the people , without the consentient vote of the presbytery , nor any of the people can either be bound or loosed without the consentient vote of the people . in these cases which may be very frequent , the keys of christ must be layde aside , and a new key of the independents owne invention , their sentence of non-communion , or that much beloved and a little elder key of separation , forged by the brownists , must come in the place thereof , to be used against any or all other churches , against their owne church or its eldershippe , or its brotherhood , or any member of either . our sixth argument concernes ordination , a speciall act of jurisdiction , which all the independents to this day put in the hands of the people alone , when ever a new congregation is to be erected : which to them is no extraordinary nor rare case : or when in a congregation already erected , there is no presbytery , which among them is frequent . for a presbytery must consist of more governours then one , and usually their presbiteryes exceede not the number of three or foure . at the death of their minister , suppose one of their two ruling elders be sicke , or absent , or the two differ betweene themselves : in this case they make no difficulty to cause some of the people out of all office to ordaine a new chosen pastour ; against this very ordinary practice we reason . vnto whom the power of ordination doth belong , they have a commission from god authoritatively to send pastours for preaching and celebration of the sacraments , also to lay hands upon them for that effect ; but people have no such commission . ergo. the major , is the nature of ordination ; for the essence and inward forme of it is the authoritative sending named : the outward forme and signe used in scripture , is imposition of hands . the minor is proved from three grounds ; first , that the people however they elect , yet they doe not send ; for so they should send to themselves . the senders and they to whom the preachers are sent , should be one and the same . secondly , an authoritative mission imports a superiority in the sender above the sent ; but , the pastours are over the people not under them . thirdly , the examples of the new testament make it evident , that the authoritative sending , and imposition of hands , the signe thereof , were never used by any of the people , but by the elders onely . tim. . . with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery : tim. . . lay hands suddenly upon no man. tim. . . stirre up the gift of god that is in thee by the putting on of my hands . so it was not onely at the first sending of men to preach , but in posterior missions to any particular service of the ministery . acts. . . there was in the church certaine prophets and teachers , and the holy ghost sayd , separate me barnabas and saul to the worke whereunto i have called them ; and when they had fasted and prayed , and layd their hands on them , they sent them away . fourthly , none of the people ordinarily have the gifts requisite for this action , as skill to examine the minister in all things he must be tried in , a gift of publicke prayer , a faculty to instruct and exhort the pastour and people to mutuall duties . seventhly , that power belongeth not to the people which disableth them both in their christian and civill duties . but , the power of ecclesiastick jurisdiction doth so . the major is grounded on the nature of all power and all gifts which god doth give ; for all are for edification , and none for the hurt of these to whom they are given . the minor may be demonstrated by this ▪ that it layes a necessity upon all the people to attend in the sabbath day upon the exercise of discipline , which by the very length will make the sabbath-service insupportably burdensome ; and also will fill the mindes of the people with these purposes which naturally occurre in the agitation of ecclesiasticke causes , and cannot but cast out of common weake mindes much of the fruite of the preceding worship . further , the peoples necessary attendance on all ecclesiasticke causes , will make the processe in the most causes so prolix , as cannot but robbe the people of that time which they ought to imploy in their secular callings for getting of bread . for every one of the people being a judge , must be so satisfyed in every circumstance of every action , as to give their suffrage upon certaine knowledge and with a good conscience : now before this can be done in a few causes of the smallest , and best ordered congregations much time will be spent : as the church of arneim found it in one cause alone , though but a light one ; and betwixt two onely , even of their cheife and best members . eighthly , that power is not to be given to the people , which brings in the popular government of morellius into the church : but , the power in question doth so . the major is the common assertion of all the brethren , that they are farre from democracy , and further from morellius anarchy , and that they are ready to forsake their tenet , if it can be demonstrated to import any such thing . the minor thus we prove , that which puts the highest acts of government in the hands of the multitude , brings in the popular government : for in the greatest democracies that are or ever have beene , there were divers acts of great power in the hand of sundry magistrates ; but the highest acts of power being in the hands of the people alone : such as the making of lawes , the creation of magistrates , the censure of the greatest offendors , these were the sure signes of supremacy , that gave the denomination to the government . now we assure that the tenet in hand puts the highest acts of ecclesiastick authority in the hands of the people . for the ordination and deposition of officers , the binding and loosing of offendours , are incomparably the highest acts of ecclesiasticke jurisdiction : these they put in the hand of the people . that they doe conjoyne with the people the officers to expound the law , and declare what is right , and to give out the sentence makes nothing against the peoples supremacy : for in rome and athens at their most democraticke times , and this day in the states of holland , in all the provinces and every city , where the people are undoubted soveraignes , they have their magistrates and officers in all their proceedings to goe before them , to declare the case , to take the suffrages , and to pronounce the sentence . as for them who of late have begun to put the whole authority in the officers alone , and to give the people onely a liberty of consenting to what the officers doe decree of their owne authority , wee say they are but few that doe so , and these contradictory to themselves . also these same men give absolute authority to the people in divers cases : further , that liberty of consent they come to call an authoritative concurrence . lastly , the most of the arguments even of these men , doe conclude not onely a liberty to consent , and to concurre , but an authoritative agency in the highest acts of jurisdiction . ninthly , they who have the power of jurisdiction , have also the power of preaching the word , and celebrating the sacraments , unlesse god in his word have given them a particular and expresse exemption from that imployment . but none of the people have power to preach the word , and celebrate the sacraments . ergo. the major is built on these scriptures which conjoyne the administration of the word , sacrament and discipline in one and the same termes : and upon these scriptures which lay a part of these administrations upon some men , with an expresse exception of another part of them . math. . . under the name of the keys of the kingdome of heaven , is comprehended the whole ecclesiasticke power of the word , sacraments , and discipline ; what there is promised . joh. . it is performed in these termes , as the father hath sent me , so i send you . but , tim. . . where this power is separated and distinguished , the one part of jurisdiction is ascribed to the ruling elders , with an expresse intimation of their freedome from preaching the word , and by consequence from celebration of the sacraments . the minor was that none of the people have power of the word and sacraments . for the power of the sacraments , it is confessed not to belong to the people . that the power of preaching the word , belongeth no more to them , was proved in the former chapter . none of our brethren doe ascribe the power of preaching to all the people , but onely to a few of them who are able to prophesie : so the power of jurisdiction according to the ground in hand , could be ascribed to none of the people but these few prophets alone . for the other side , the separatists and master parker , in this point as farre wrong as the other , bring many arguments : but i will meddle onely with these which master cotton doth borrow from them in his way of the churches , and answer to the . questions . first , from math. . he reasons thus . the power of the keys is given unto peter upon the confession of his faith . ergo , every beleever hath the power of the keys . answer . i deny the consequence , for however upon the occasion of his confession the keys are promised to him : yet they are not promised to him because of his confessing , nor under the relation of a beleever ; for if so , then all and onely beleevers should have the full power of the keys ; but our brethren will be loth to avow this direct assertion of smith the sebaptist ; for they doe not ascribe the power of the sacraments to any beleever out of office , nor any power of the keys to every beleever : for some beleevers are not members of any church , and the keys are onely for domesticks . neither doe they put the keys into the hands of beleevers alone ; for so , judas and many pastours for want of true fayth could not validly either preach or baptize . the keys therefore are not promised to peter under the notion of a beleever , but in the quality of an apostle and elder of the church , as is cleared in the paralled places of math & john , where the gift here promised is actually conferred upon all the apostles , who all were elders , and whose office of opening and closing the doores of heaven , was to remaine in the church to the worlds end , not in the hand of every beleever , but of the governours of the church joyned in that presbytery which other scriptures doe mention . secondly , they reason from ma● . . who ever is the church to whom scandalls must be told , and which must be heard under the pain of excommunication , they have the power of church censures ; but the people are that church . ergo. ans , we deny the minor , with the good leave of our brethren : for albeit they are wont to make the people alone without their officers the church in this place , proving hence the peoples power of jurisdiction before they have any officers , also their power to cast out all their officers when they have gotten them ; yet now they have gone from the separatists thus farre , as to say , that the people alone cannot be the church here mentioned : but the church must be the people with their officers , whom now they will be loth as sometimes to make meere accidents and adjuncts of this church : for now they hold them for integrall members , so necessary , that without them no censure at all can be performed upon any . they goe here a little further , telling us that the church in this place cannot be the people , though with their officers ; but must be taken for the officers with the people : because both the power and the execution of censures belongs to the officers alone , though in the presence of the people , and with their consent , and concurrence . they tell us that the right and authority of censures is given onely to the presbytery of governours , in such a manner that the presbytery can be censured by no others , neither can any other be censured not onely without their consent , but not without their action . we adde a third steppe , whether our former arguments must draw them , that the church here meant , must be the governours alone without the peoples concurrence : for if excommunication the great act of government , did belong to the people , either by themselves alone , or joyntly by way of concurrence with their officers , it would follow that the people were either sole governours above their officers , or joynt governours with their officers : which albeit our brethren did hold lately with the separatists , yet now they will not assert , so much the more as they declare it to be their judgement and practice that the elders alone without the people , doe meete apart in their presbytery to heare all offences and to prepare them for publicke judgement , whence i thus argue . they to whom offences are to be told immediatly after the two or three witnesses are not heard , they are the church to whom in this place the power of excommunication is given ; but , the elders alone without the people , being set apart in their presbytery , are they to whom offences are to be told , &c. ergo , the major is cleare from the text , for it speaks but of one church which must be told , and heard under the paine of censure . the minor is their own confession , and practice : and if that meeting of the elders to whom they tell the offence , for preparation of the processe to their peoples voice , be not the church here mentioned , then their ordinary practice of bringing scandalls first to the presbytery , before they be heard in the congregation , shall be found not onely groundlesse beside the scripture , but altogether contrary to the scripture in hand : for the method here prescribed is that the church be told when the witnesses are not heard : if therefore that company which is told after the witnesses are contemned , be not the church : christs order is not kept , and the church gets wrong . thirdly , they reason from cor. chap. . ver . . . . . . they who are gathered together with the apostles spirit , and the power of christ to deliver the incestuous man to sathan ; who were to purge out the old leaven , and to judge them that are within , and put away the wicked person : they have power to excommunicate ; but , the people doe all these things . ergo. answer , the minor is denyed . first , that gathering together might well be of the presbytery alone , which our brethren grant most meete in divers preparatory acts to censure . secondly , if it were of the whole people which can not be supposed in corinth , where the people and officers were so many , that the congregations , as in jerusalem , and else where , were more then one : yet , suppose that all the people did meete to the excommunication of that wicked man , this proves not that every one who did meete unto that censure , had either the power or the execution of it , more then of the word and sacraments to which they did more frequently meete . thirdly , the purging out of the old leaven , and the putting away the man , is commended indefinitely to these unto whom the apostle wrote , which our brethren grant cannot be expounded without sundry exceptions . first , none doubt of women and children ; againe in the next chapter , it is written indefinitely , you are sanctifyed , you are justifyed , your bodyes are the temples of the holy ghost ; this must be restricted to the elect and regenerate , except we will turne arminians . everywhere in scripture indefinite propositions must be expounded according as other scriptures declare the nature of the matter in hand ; so here , the act of purging and putting away , ascribed indefinitely to the church , must be expounded not of all the members , but only of the officers of the church . for the brownists themselves make not every member to be a ruler : nor doe our brethren give the formall authority and power of censures to any other but officers , ascribing to the rest of the members onely a liberty of concurrence , so that the next word of judging is expounded by them of a judgement of discretion , not of any judiciall and authoritative judgement , which alone is in question . fourthly , from coll. . . they reason : the people of colosse had power to admonish their minister archippus to fullfill his ministery . therefore the people of any church have power if neede be to excommunicate their minister . answer . first , that however our brethren pretend to have come off from the extremity of the brownists , halfe way towards us : yet their arguments drive at the utmost of their old extremities , at no lesse then a power for the people to excommunicate their ministers . thus farre the most of their reasons doe carry , if they have any force at all . secondly , the antecedent may well be denyed , all that the apostle speaks to the collossians indefinitely , must not be expounded of every one of the people : this precept of speaking to archippus , could not be better performed then by the presbytery , whereof archippus was a member . thirdly , the consequence is invalid , they might admonish , therefore excommunicate . every admonition is not in order to censure ; it is a morall duty incumbent to every one to admonish lovingly and zealously his brother , when there is cause : it is a sinne and disobedience to god if we let sinne lye upon any whom we by our counsell and admonition can helpe ; but to conclude that we have power to excommunicate every man , whom in duty wee ought to admonish , is an absurdity which none of the separatists will well digest . fifthly , from revel . . . . the whole churches of pergamus and t●yatira , are rebuked for suffering wicked hereticks to live among them uncensured . ergo , it was the duty of all the church to censure them . answer . first , the conclusion is for a power to the people to censure , which our brethren now deny . secondly , the antecedent may be denied ; for the fault of that impious toleration is not laid upon the whole church , but expresly upon the angell . thirdly , the consequence is not good . the whole church might be reproved for a neglect of their duty , in not inciting and incouraging their officers to censure these hereticks ; but a reproofe for this neglect , inferreth not that it was the peoples duty to execute these censures : thus much our brethren will not avow . sixthly , they reason from revel . . . the foure and twenty elders sate on thrones in white robes with crownes on their heads . ergo , every one of the church hath a power of judging , as kings with crownes sitting on their thrones . answer , first , the conclusion ever inferres the full tenet of the separatists . secondly , the consequence is very weake , except many things be supposed which will not be granted without strong proofes : first , that this type is argumentative for the matter in hand : secondly , that this place is relative to the church on earth , rather then to that in heaven : thirdly , that these elders doe typifie the people rather then the officers : fourthly , that the thrones and crownes import a kingly office in every christian to be exercised in church censures upon their brethren , more then the white robes doe inferre the priestly office of every christian to be exercised in preaching the word and celebrating the sacraments . seventhly , they reason from galatian . . . the galatians were called unto liberty , whereto they behoved to stand fast , as to a priviledge purchased by christ his blood ; ergo , every one of them had a power to cut off their officers . answer . this is the scripture whereupon our brethren have lately fallen , and make more of it then of any other . i confesse , their reasoning from it seemes to me the most unreasonable throwing of the holy scripture that i have readily seene in any disputant . the whole scope of the place carrying evidentty a liberty from the burthen and servitude of the law. their fathering upon it a new and unheard of sense , to wit , a priviledge of church censures , without any authority or proper power therein , is very strange : they cannot produce any scripture where the word liberty hath any such sense , and though they could , yet to give the word that sense in this place where so clearely it is referred to a quite diverse matter , it seemeth extremely unreasonable . eightly , thus they reason , the whole congregation of israel had power to punish malefactors , as in the case of gibea ▪ & in the message of israel to the two tribes & halfe ; also the people had power to rescue from the hands of the magistrates , as in the case of jonathan from saul . answer . the consequence is null ; for the practise of the israelites in their civill state , is no sufficient rule for the proceedings of the church of the new testament . our brethren would beware of such arguments , least by them they entertaine the jealousie which some professe they have of their way , fearing it be builded upon such principles as will set up the common people , not onely above their officers in the church , but also above their magistrate in the state : that it draw in a popular government and ochlocracie both in church and state alike . ninthly , they thus reason . who ever doe elect the officers , they have power to ordaine them , and upon just cause to depose and excommunicate them . but the people do elect their officers ; ergo. answer . the major is denied ; for first , election is no act of power ; suppose it to be a priviledge , yet there is no jurisdiction in it at all ▪ but ordination is an act of jurisdiction , it is an authoritative mission , and putting of a man into a spirituall office. the people , though they have the right and possession by scripturall practise of the one , yet they never had either the right or the possession of the other . secondly , suppose the maxime were true , whereof yet i much doubt , unlesse it be well limited , ejus est destituere cuius instituere , that they who give authority , have power to take it backe againe ; yet we deny that the people who elect , give any authority or office at all , their election is at most but an antecedent , sine quo non ; it is the presbytery onely who by their ordination doe conferre the office upon the elect person . finally , they argue , no act of jurisdiction is v●lid without the peoples consent ; ergo , to every act of jurisdiction the peoples presence and concurrence is necessary : answer . the antecedent in many cases is false ; a gracious orthodoxe minister may be ordained a pastor to a hereticall people against their consent : an hereticall pastor , who hath seduced all his flocke , may be removed from them against their passionate desires to keepe him : but the consequent is more vitious ; where ever consent is requisite , their presence , much lesse authoritative concurrence , is not necessary : all the souldiers are not present at the counsell of war , and yet the decrees of that counsell of war can not be executed without the consent and action of the souldiers : every member of the church of antioch was not present at the synod of jerusalem : diverse members of the independent congregations are absent from many church determinations , to the which upon their first knowledge they doe agree . chap. x. independencie is contrary to the word of god. the divine wisedome which found it expedient for man before the fall , not to live alone , hath made it much more needfull for man to live in society after his weakning by sinne ; woe to him that is alone , for if he fall who shall raise him up ? the best wits of themselves are prone to errors and miscarriages , and left alone , are inclined to run on in any evill way they have once begunne : but engagement in fellowshippe , especially with the saints , is a preservative against the beginnings of evill , and a retractive therefrom when begunne . every gratious neighbour is a counsellour and pedagogue , the greater the incorporation is of such , the better is every member directed and the more strengthened . hence the goodnesse of god hath ordained not onely the planting of particular men into a small body of one single congregation , but for the greater security both of persons and congregations , the lord hath increased that communion of churches by binding neighbour congregations in a larger and stronger body of a presbytery , or classis ; yea a number of presbyteryes by the same hand of god are combined in a synode ; neither this onely , but for the strengthening of every stone and of the whole building , the lord hath appointed the largest societies that are possible , the very church universall and the representation thereof , an oecumenick assembly . this congregative way is divine ; the dissolution of humane societies , especially of ecclesiasticke assemblyes , must be from another spirit . the first we know to have opposed the holy societyes we speake of , were anabaptists , who liking a catholicke anarchy in all things , and pressing an universall liberty , did strive to cut in peeces all the bands , as of politicke and oeconomick union whereby kingdomes and states , cities and familyes did stand , so also of the ecclesiasticke conjunction , making every person at last fully free from all servitude , and simply independent , or uncontrolable in any of his owne opinions or desires , by any mortall man. their first follower among the reformed , was one john moreau a parisian , who in the french churches did vent the independency of congregations from synods , and the popular government of these independent congregations : but his scismatick pamphlet came no sooner abroad then the french divines did most unanimously trample upon it . in their generall assembly at rochell , most reverend beza moderator for the time , and in their next assembly , learned sadeell with others , did so fully confute these anabaptistick follies , that thereafter in france this evill spirit did never so much as whisper ; only in holland , in the arminian times , it began to speake by the tongue of grotius , and others of his fellowes , who being conscious to themselves of tenets whereunto they despared the assent of any synode , yea fearing to be prejudged in the propagation of their errours by a crosse sentence of a nationall assembly , did set themselves to call in question , and at last to deny the authority and jurisdiction of all church meetings . but when the goodnesse of god in that happy synode of dort , did crush the other errours of that party , this their fansie did evanish , and since in these bounds hath beene buried in oblivion . by what meanes this anabaptistick roote which neither france nor holland could beare , when grotius and morellius did assay to plant it , doth thrive so well in england , after browne and barrow with their followers did become its dressers , i have declared at length before . however the novelty of the tenet , the infamie of its authours , the evill successe it hath had whereever yet it hath set up the head , doth burden it with so just contempt , that all further audience might be denyed thereto ; yet in this impudent and malapertage , where the greatest absurdityes will importunately ingyre themselves , and require beleefe as unanswerable and most covincing truths , unlesse in a full hearing their naughtinesse be demonstrate , we are content without all prejudices to reason the matter it selfe from the ground , and to require no man to hate this errour for its authours , or any externall consideration , unlesse it be cleerely showne to be contrary to the revealed will of god. the state of the question hath no perplexitie , if its termes were cleared . the brownists affirme that every parish church , that every single congregation , is independent from any presbytery , any synod , any assembly : this we deny , affirming the true dependence and subordination of parochiall congregations to presbyteries , and of these to synods : to which we ascribe power , authority , and jurisdisdiction . before wee fall to reasoning , let us understand the words , which in this debate doe frequently occurre . first , what is a parochiall church , or single congregation . secondly , what is its independence . thirdly , what is a presbytery , and a presbyteriall church . fourthly , what is a synod . fifthly . what is authoritie and jurisdiction ecclesiasticall . we intend no definitions , but such popular descriptions as may make cleare what the parties use to understand by these words . a particular church , a parish or congregation in this question , is taken for a company of faithfull people , every one whereof in the face of the whole congregation , hath given so cleare tokens of their true grace and regeneration , as hath satisfied the minde of all : a company , i say , incorporate by a particular covenant and oath to exercise all the parts of christian religion , in one place under one pastor : our opposits affirme , that in one church there must be but one pastor , assisted indeede with a doctor , and three or foure elders , yet no more pastors but one . they will admit into a church no more people then commodiously , and at their ease , may convene in one house ; how few they be they care not ; ten families , or forty persons to them are a faire church : you have heard that some of their churches have beene within the number of foure persons . independencie is the full liberty of such a church to discharge all the parts of religion , doctrine , sacraments , discipline , and all within it selfe without all dependence , all subordination to any other on earth , more or fewer , so that the smallest congregation , suppose of three persons , though it fall into the grossest heresies , may not be controlled by any orthodoxe synod , were it oecumenicke of all the churches on earth . a presbytery , as it is called in scotland , or a classis , as in holland , or a collogue , as in france , is an ordinary meeting of the pastors of the churches neerly neighbouring , & of the ruling elders deputed therefrom , for the exercise chiefely of discipline , so farre as concernes these neighbouring churches in common . a presbyteriall church , is a company of professors governed by one prysbytery , who for the exercise of religion meete in diverse places , or who have moe pastors then one . a synod , is a convention of pastors and elders sent and deputed from diverse presbyteries , meeting either ordinarily or upon occasion for the affaires that are common to those that sent them . ecclesiasticke jurisdiction , is a right and power , not onely by advice to counsell and direct , but by authority given of god , to injoyne and to performe according to the rule of scriptures these things which concern the ordination of ministers , the deciding of ecclesiasticall causes , the determination of doctrines , the inflicting of censures , &c. the signification of these words being presupposed , the state of the question , or minde of the parties , can not be obscure . the first argumen for the truth i cast into this forme . every independent church hath alwayes , and ordinarily , the right of ordination , and power to lay hands on pastors . but , no single congregation , or parochiall church huth that right and power . ergo ▪ no single congregation is an independent church . the major is not questioned by the adverse party , for they place the nature of their independencie in a right and power intrinsecall and essentiall to every the least congregation of ordaining , deposing , excommunicating , and exercising all acts of jurisdiction upon all their own members , as well pastors as others . i said alwayes , and ordinarily , for we question not now what at some times in some extraordinary cases may fall out to be lawfull and necessary , not onely to single congregations , but even to single persons : also the power which our adverse party disputeth for , is not hypotheticke , which sometimes on supposition of such and such cases belongeth to a church , but absolute , which is inherent to every congregation at all times . the minor we prove thus : what is proper to a presbytery the right thereof belongs not to any single congregation : but ordination , and imposition of hands is proper to a presbytery , as appeareth from tim. , . neglect not the gift that is in thee , which was given thee by prophesie with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery . the apostle maketh that right proper to the presbytery , which he will have to remaine in it , and not to be removed therefrom , notwithstanding sundry extraordinary cases which might have excused the removeall of it . for timothy was a pastor not altogether ordinary , and inferior , but an evangelist ; he had for the ground of his office the extraordinary call of some prophets when he was sent out to preach , paul himself laid hands upon him ; notwithstanding all this , that the due and just right of the presbytery migh be proclamed , the apostle marketh that the gift , office , and grace of preaching the gospell was conferred on timothy by the laying on of the presbyteries hands . for the proof of the last maior , we neede not much descant on the word presbytery , and the sense of it in the fore-named place , nor to refute the misinterpretations which some make of it , especially they , who under the mis-alledged authority of calvin , would understand not the convention of any men , but the office of a presbyter , as if an office or any accident could have had hands which might have beene laid on timothies head . passing therefore such digressions , we prove the maior in hand , thus : no single congregation is a presbytery , nor any wayes necessarily hath a presbytery within it selfe ; yea if our adverse party may be beleeved , no congregation can have , at least should have in it selfe such a presbytery whereof paul speaketh . ergo. what is proper to a presbytery , the right thereof may not be usurped by any single congregation . of the consequence there is no doubt : the antecedent hath three parts : onely the first is needefull to be proved ; but for more abundant satisfaction , we shall assay to prove them all . the first , thus ; a presbytery is a member and part of a congregation , according to our adverse party ( we love not to strive for words , be it so that the meeting of a minister and elders governing single congregations , which we call a session , as over-sea it is called a consistory , may goe under the name of a presbytery ) ergo. no congregation is a presbytery . the consequence is clear , for no member may be affirmed in the nominative of its owne whole , especially heterogeneous : the body is not the head , the finger is not the hand ; he doore , or the window is not the house . concerning the second part of the antecedent , that no congregation hath a presbytery any wayes necessarily within it selfe , this is cleare from the common practise of our adverse party : very oft their churches have neither session , nor pastor , nor doctor , nor elder at all ; they make not any of the officers necessary parts of the church either essentiall or integrall , without the which the church may not subsist ; yea , as the most learned , and most acute mr. rutherfoord hath well observed , pag. . their grounds take away the necessitie of any ministry at all . mr. paget tells us that their chiefe and mother-church at amsterdame , through the mis-government of their pastor , mr. can , hath wanted now for some yeares both a doctor and elders and a session , or congregationall presbytery . but the pith of the argument is in the third part of the antecedent , that no single congregation can have , or ( which is all one when we speake of right and wrong ) ought to have within it selfe pauls presbytery . this we prove . no single congregation may , or ought to have moe pastors than one . ergo. neither pauls presbytery . the antecedent is the doctrine of our adverse party . the consequence leaneth on this proposition . in pauls presbytery are more pastors , which thus is proved : where there are many layers on of hands on pastors , there are many pastors : but , in pauls presbytery are many layers on of hands on pastors ; for in the alledged place , not one , but many lay on their hands with paul on timothy . the last maior leaneth on this ground , that onely pastors lay hands on pastors , so that many laying hands on pastors , must be many pastors , and by consequence , in one congregation , where there are not many , but one onely pastor , ( yea none at all whensoever by imposition of hands a new pastor is to be ordained to that congregation , ) the act of ordination can not be lawfully performed by the proper members of that congregation . that which alone remaineth to be proved , that onely pastors lay hands upon pastors , is cleared by an induction , against which no instance can be brought . tim. . . lay hands suddenly on no man. tim. . . stirre up the gift of god that is in thee , by the putting on of my hands . tit. . . i left thee in crete that thou shouldest ordayne elders . acts. . . . certaine prophets and teachers laide their hands upon them , and sent them away . acts. . . they ordained them elders in every church . in all these places both the first ordination , and posterior mission to preach the gospell , is the act onely of those who were pastors , neither else-where reade we that it was otherwise . the second argument : every independent church , exerciseth ordinarily within it selfe , by its owne members all acts of ecclesiasticke jurisdiction . but , this no single congregation doth ordinarily . ergo , no single congregation is an independent church . onely the minor is dubious , which we prove thus ; every church ordinarily exercising all acts of ecclesiastick jurisdiction is presbyteriall : but , no single congregation is a presbyteriall church . ergo. no single congregation exerciseth ordinarily all acts of ecclesiastick jurisdiction . the minor is cleare from the nature of a single congregation and presbyteriall church , as in the stateing of the question both were described . the major is proved by a full induction of all the churches which in the new testament we reade to have had the full exercise of all ecclesiastick jurisdiction ▪ that all such were presbyteriall and not congregationall ; we prove it thus : a church which cannot all convene in one house for the publicke service of god , a church which hath more pastours then one , is presbyteriall , not congregationall , according to the grounds of our adversaryes . but all the churches we reade of in the new testament to have had the full exercise of all ecclesiastick jurisdiction , did meete in more places for divine worshippe , and had more pastors then one . this we demonstrate of the cheife , the church at jerusalem , samaria , rome , corinth , ephesus , antioch , neither can a reason be given why the rest of the scripturall churches should not be of the same kind . beginne with the mother-church of jerusalem . a company consisting of many thousand persons , and wanting a publicke house of meeting , could not convene into one place for worshippe : for this very day when christians have gotten most stately and spacious palaces for churches , hardly one thousand can commodiously be together for solemne worshippe ; and if we looke to the practise of the adversaries , a few scores of men will be a large church . as for the state of the church at jerusalem . first , it is granted that for many yeares after the apostles , neither it nor any other company of christians in any part of the world had a publicke place of meeting . secondly , that this church did consist of many thousand people , the following places prove acts. . . the same day were added unto them about three thousand . also chap. . . the number of the men were five thousand . and where there were so many men , if yee looke to the ordinary proportion , there were of women and children twice or thrice so many . neither did that church stand at the named thousands , for acts. . . more multitudes both of men and women were added to the church , and the number of the disciples was yet more multiplyed , chap . also that which we reade chap. . . the lord added to the church daily , seemeth to have continued for a long time . to that which is replyed by some , that a great part of the named multitudes were strangers , and not inhabitants at jerusalem , and so no members of that church ; we answer , that this is said without warrant . that of the three thousand mentioned in the third chapter , some part were strangers , we will not deny to be likely ; but that the most part were so , or that of all the thousands named in the fourth , fifth , and sixt , any one was a stranger , it cannot be proved from the text. as for that which they bring from the chap. . all who beleeved were together : as if the whole church had alwayes come to one place for the publicke worshippe . we say that it was simply impossible for three thousand people , not to speake of twenty thousand and above , to meete in one private house , for they had none publicke , neither did they in the streetes celebrate their sacraments . so we are necessitated to take the churches being together , one of three wayes : either for the conjunction of their minds , as the following words doe import ( they continued with one accordin the temple ) or else their meeting together must be understood distributively in divers places , not collectively in one , as the words in hand will also beare where the celebration of the lords supper , and breaking of bread is said to be not in any one house onely but from house to house . the church meete thin a third way together when not all the members but the officers with a part of the people convene in a presbytery as appeareth from the and chapters . the case is no lesse cleare of the church of samaria acts . . . . . verses the people of that city with one accord from the least to the greatest both men and women did beleeve , in such a number that the cheife of the apostles peter and john , were sent from jerusalem to assist philip in their instruction . could this whole city which was amongst the greatest of canaan convene all to gods worshippe in one private roome , or be served with one pastor , who required for a time the attendance not onely of philip but further of two prime apostles ? come to the rest . the roman church was one body . rom. . . yet so great that it could not meet in one private roome . for in the . chap. beside the church which met in the house of aquila v. . there are a number of houses set downe , in which , besides divers saints named , there were many others also unnamed which worshipped with them , v. , . so great were the multitudes of christians then at rome that their fame was spread over all the world . chap. . . and chap. . . in the city of rome were many hundred thousand men , the halfe of which according to tertullian , were christians the age after the apostles ; and a little after cornelius recordeth that more then forty preachers did attend the instruction of that people who yet had no publick place of meeting . the same was the case of the church at corinth at its very beginning , acts. . . it did consist of a multitude both iewes and gentiles ; beside all which , god had much people in that city , v. . which by the continuall labours of paul for monthes were converted , v. , for whose instruction beside paul , apollos , timotheus , a great number of other doctors attended , cor . . not to speake of a multitude of false teachers ; they had also a number of idle and vaine teachers who kept the foundation , but builded upon it hay , stubble and timber . could all these meete together in one private place ? unlesse yee would understand their meetings distributively , or for the convention of their officers with a part of the people for discipline . also at ephesus was but one church . for acts. . . paul called to him the elders of that church , in the singular ; yet that in ephesus there was so great a number of christians as could not commodiously serve god in one private roome , it seemes most cleare ; for in that most noble mart town paul did preach whole two yeares . acts . . yea he ceased not day nor night for full three yeares , cha . . . the feare of god fell on all that people both jews and gentiles , and the name of jesus was magnified , cha . . . so great a multitude even of scholars was converted that the professors of curious arts alone did make a fire of bookes to the value of peeces of silver ; so mightily grew the word of god there , v. . further , in the church of ephesus were many pastors ; for acts. . . paul called for the elders , not one onely . that divers of these if not all , were pastors and doctors , it appeareth from v. . where they are appointed by the holy ghost , to be feeders of the flocke and get a commission to oppose false doctors , about the which they went faithfully , as the lord beareth them witnesse , revel . . . now the charge of the doctrine to try and examine false teachers , lieth principally on preachers . this is alike true of the church of antioch : the hand of the lord was in the city , and a great number beleeved , acts . . thereafter by barnabas labour there was much people added , v. . yea , by the joyned paines of barnabas and paul for a yeare together , there was such a multitude converted , that the name of christians was first imposed upon them . here , as in the metropolitane city , not onely of syria , but all asia , beside barnabas , paul and other prophets , v. . peter also , and many other doctors had their residence , gal. . . it were too long to speake of the rest of the apostolicke churches , whose condition was not unlike the former . our third argument : no synod hath authority to impose decrees upon an independent church : but some synods have authority to impose decrees upon particular churches , whether presbyteriall or congregationall . ergo , particular churches , whether presbyteriall or congregationall are not independent . the maior is not controverted ; our adverse party acknowledgeth the lawfull use and manifold fruits of synods : they grant it is the duty of every good man , and much more of every church , and most of all of a synod consisting of the messengers of many churches , to admonish , counsell , perswade , and request particular curches to doe their duty : but , that any company on earth , even an oecumenicke synod , should presume to injoyne with authority the smallest congregation , to leave the grossest heresies under the paine of any censure , they count it absurd . upon this ground , that every congregation , how small soever , how corrupt soever , is an independent body , and not subordinate to any society on earth , how great , how pure , how holy soever . the minor thus is proved : the synod of jerusalem imposed with authority , her decrees upon the church of antioch . ergo , some synod ; and if you please to make it universall , every lawfull synod may impose its decrees upon particular churches . the antecedent is to be seene , acte . . it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us , to lay no further burden on you then these things necessary . the consequence is good , for antioch was among the chiefe of the apostolicke churches ; in it barnabas , paul , and other prophets inspired of god were preachers : if this church was subject to the authority of synods , what church may plead a freedome from the like subjection ? many things are here replied , as usually it hapneth when no solid answer can be brought : the chiefe heads of the reply are three ; first , that the meeting at jerusalem was no synod . secondly , what ever it was that it did injoyne nothing , authoritatively to any other churches . thirdly , that other synods may not pretend to the priviledges of that meeting since its decrees were indited by the holy ghost , and stand now in the holy canon as a part of scripture . to the first , we say , that the meeting at jerusalem is either a true synod , or else there is no paterne in all scripture for synods , even for counsell , or advice , or any other use . but , this were inconvenient ; for they acknowledge that synods are lawfull meanes for many gracious ends in the church : now , to affirme that any ecclesiasticke meeting is lawfull , necessary , or convenient for gracious ends , whereof no patterne , no example can be found in scripture , were dangerous . but beside this argument , towards our adverse party , we reason from the nature of the thing it selfe . a meeting consisting of the deputies of many presbyteriall churches , is a true synod ; but , the convention at jerusalem , acts . was such a meeting . the maior is the essence of a synod ; there are many accidentall differences of synods ; for according to the quantity and number of the churches who send their commissioners , the synod is smaller or greater , is provinciall , nationall , or oecumenicke : according to occasion , the churches sending commissioners , are sometime moe , sometime fewer , sometime neerer , sometime further off : also according to the commodity of place , and necessity of affaires , they come from one church moe , and from others fewer : all these are but accidentalls , which change not the nature of the thing . unto the essence of a synod ; no more useth to be required then a meeting of commissioners from moe presbyteriall churches . the minor is cleare ; that the church of antioch and jerusalem were moe churches , no man doubts ; that both were presbyteriall , it was proved before , that from both these presbyteriall churches , commissioners did sit at that meeting , it is apparent from that oft cited , acts . yea , that from the other churches of syria and cilicia , besides antioch , commissioners did come to jerusalem , may appeare by conference of the . vers . of the . chap. with vers . . for that with paul and barnabas commissioners for the time from the antiochians , others also did come , it is certaine : that those others , at least some of them , were deputed from the churches of syria and cilicia , it is like , because the synodick epistle is directed expresly no lesse to those than to this of antioch ; also those , no lesse than this , are said to be troubled with the questions which occasioned that meeting . but to passe this consideration , it is cleare that in the convention at jerusalem were present , not onely the commissioners of some few presbyteriall churches , but also they whom god had made constant commissioners to all the churches of the world , to wit , the apostles ; their presence made all the churches legally subject to the decrees of that synod , though they had no other but their grand and constant commissioners to voyce for them in that meeting . the second answer is clearely refuted from the . vers . where the decrees are not proposed by way of meere advice , but are injoyned and imposed as necessary burdens , with authority , not onely of the synod but of the holy ghost . concerning the third , we say that the meerely divine , and more than ecclesiastick authority of these decrees in their first formation , is not made good from this , that now they stand in holy scripture , and are become a part of the bible ; for a world of acts meerely indifferent , and which without doubt in their originall had no more then ecclesiasticke authority , are registred in scripture . was the presbytery of lystraes laying on of hands on timothy any other then an act of ecclesiastick ordination ? the decree of the church of corinth for the incestuous mans excommunication , or relaxation after repentance , was it any more then an act of jurisdiction meerely ecclesiasticke ? pauls circumcision of timothy , his uow at cenchrea , the cutting off his haire at jerusalem , were free and indifferent actions : the nature of these things , and many moe of that kinde , is not changed by their registring in the booke of god. neither also is the meerly divine authority of the decrees at jerusalem proved by this , that in their first framing they were grounded on cleare scripture , and after proclamed in the name of the holy ghost ; for that is the condition of the lawfull decrees of all gracious synods . did not of old the fathers of nice , and of late the fathers of dort , through the inspiration of the holy ghost , who remaineth with the church , especially with gracious synods to the worlds end , pronounce from the holy sctipture their decrees of the godhead of christ against arrius , and of the grace of god against arminius : shall we for this cause ascribe to the canons of nice or dort any greater authority then ecclesiastick and humane ? howsoever , that the apostles in framing the canons at jerusalem did proceede in a way meerely ecclesiastick , and farre different from that they used in dictating of scripture , and publishing truths meerely divine , appeareth from this ; first , that these canons were brought forth by much disputation and long discourse , but , divine oracles without the proces of humane ratiocinations are published from the immediate inditing of the spirit , pet. . . the prophesie in old time came not by the will of man , but the holy men of god spake as they were moved by the holy ghost . secondly , oracles meerely divine are published onely in the name of god , thus saith the lord ; but , these canons are proclamed , not onely in the name of god , but also in the name of man , it seemeth good to the holy ghost , and to us . thirdly , the oracles of god are dictated to the church by the ministry only of the prophets and apostles , and men inspired with an infallible spirit , ephes . , . being built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles . but , the canons of that synod , acts . are declared to be the worke , not onely of the holy ghost , ●d the apostles , but also of the elders , and of all who voyced to them . so it is cleare , that in the making of these canons , the apostles , as else-where oft , did come downe from the eminent . chaire of their apostolike , and extraordinary authority to the lower place of ordinary pastors , that in their owne persons they might give an example to ordinary pastors in what manner holy synods might be rightly celebrated to the worlds end . had not this been their end , how easie had it beene either for paul or barnabas at antioch , without the toylesome voyage of a long journey to jerusalem , or for peter or john , or james , or any one of the apostles at jerusalem , without the superfluous paines of any convention or disputation , as infallible apostles to have pronounced divine and irrefragable decrees of all the matters in question . our fourth argument . a church subordinate is not independent ; but , a parochial church is subordinate to a presbyteriall : for a lesser church is subordinate to a greater , as a part to its whole wherein it is contained . now a parochiall church is lesser and the least of all churches ; a presbyteriall church is greater . of the quantity , that the one is lesser , the other greater there is no doubt ; but of the matter it selfe there is question whether there be any such thing as a presbyteriall church . now this was proved before and hereafter also will be more cleare ; the cheife plea here is against the second major which we prove thus : a smaller number of the faithfull is subordinate by christ to a greater number of the faithfull . but , a lesser church is a smaller number of the faithfull , and a greater church is a greater number of the faithfull . the major is proved from the of math. v. . . . . if thy brother trespasse against thee , &c. here the lord in admonitions and church censures institutes a subordination , a gradation , a processe from one to two or three , from two or three to moe . understand those moe not absolutely and at randoun but in a society bound togeather by the orderly ligaments of divine policy , such as we suppose the churches to be from the smallest to the greatest till you come to the very church universall . here they distinguish the major , granting that in this place a subordination is appointed by christ of fewer to moe within the same church but not without it . we might oppugne the application of the distinction to the minor , and prove that a presbyteriall church is a greater number of the faithfull within not without the same church ; for a congregationall church may not unfitly be compared with a presbyteriall as a part with its whole ; especially if you compare the meeting of the officers which rule the parish with the presbytery , these two are not extrinsecall the one to the other ; for the sessions , or consistories , or classis , are in the presbytery which is composed of the commissioners from sessions as of its owne and intrinsecall members . but leaving this , we oppugne the ground of the distinction as it lyeth in the major , breaking the one halfe of it upon the other . the subordination of fewer to moe in the forenamed place is established say they within the same church . ergo , say we , without the same church , we meane with them without the same parochiall church : the consequence we prove by three arguments . first , there is a like reason for the subordination of fewer to moe without the same church as within the same ; for the cheife reason why the lord ordaines us in admonitions to proceed from one to two or three , from two or three to a number sitting as judges in the session of one congregation , is , because in the admonitions of two or three , more authority , gravity and wisedome are presupposed to be than in the admonitions of one alone : and that a delinquent is striken with more feare , shame , and reverence by the faces and mouthes of many who sit as judges in the name of the whole congregation , than he would be by the mouth of two or three onely . doeth not this power , virtue and weight of admonition increase with the number of admonishers , as well without as within the same congregation ? for as the admonition and censure of tenne sitting in the name of one congregation , hath greater weight then the admonition of two or three of that same flocke who represent none but themselves ; so the admonition of thirty ministers and elders representing in a presbytery fifteene congregations , whose commissioners they are , shall have more weight then the admonition of ten which represent but one flocke : for it is according to reason , that those thirty members of the presbytery should exceede in wisedome , zeale , gravity , and other qualities which adde weight to an admonition , these ten which in a session represent one congregation , so farre as those ten goe beyond the two or three severall persons of that congregation . secondly , unlesse in this place be established a subordination of fewer to moe , as well without as within the same congregation , the remedy brought by christ will be unable to cure the ill for which it was brought . the lords meanes will be disproportionable and unequall to its end ; but this were absurd to say of the wisest of all physicians . the reason of the major is this , christ is prescribing an helpe and cure for brotherly offences ; now one may be offended by a brother as well without as within the same congregation : and as well by many brethren as by one ; yea , as well may we be offended by a whole church as by one member thereof : now , if after the minde of our adverse party , the subordination of fewer to moe might not be extended without the bounds of one congregation , the lords medecine were not meete to cure very many ordinary and daily scandals ; for what if a man be scandalized by the neighbour church ? to whom shall he complaine ? when the church offending is both the judge and party , it is likely she will misregard the complaints that are made to her of her selfe . what if a man be scandalized by his owne church or by the most , or by the strongest part of it ? what if that church to whom he complaineth , take part against justice and reason with him upon whom he complaines ? it will be impossible to remedy innumerable offences which daily fall out among brethren , unlesse appeales be granted , and the subordination established by christ be extended , not onely without the bounds of one parish , but as farre and wide as the utmost limits of the church universall : for upon this place is rightly grounded by the ancients , the authority of synods even oecumenick of all the churches . thirdly , the subordination established by christ , matth. . is so farre to be extended in the christian church as it was extended in the church of the jewes ; for christ there alludeth to the jewish practise . but so it is , that in the iewish church there was ever a subordination of fewer to moe , not onely within the same synagogue , but within the whole nation , and so within the whole church universall : for all synagogues everywhere in the world were under the great councell at ierusalem . no doubt of the minor ; the major is builded upon this ground , that what ever christ hath translated from the synagogue to the church , especially if it be of naturall equity , hath as great force now amongst christians , as of old among the iewes . now , that the subordination of synagogues to the great councell is of naturall equity , it appeareth thus : a synagogue was the lowest ecclesiasticke court , the councell was the highest ; but the subordination of the lowest court to the highest , is of naturall right ; for nature hath ever dictated to all nations , as well in things civill as religious , a subordination of the lowest to the highest . our fifth argument : that which taketh away all possibility of any effectuall remedy against heresie , idolatry , schisme , tyranny , or any other mischiefe that wracks either one or moe churches ; is not of god : for god is the author and conserver of truth , purity , union , order , liberty , and of all vertue ; god of his goodnesse and wisedome hath provided for all and every one of his churches meanes and remedies , which if carefully made use of , are sufficient to hinder the first arising of heresie , schisme , or any other evill : and when they are risen to beate them downe ▪ and abolish them : so that what ever cherisheth these mischiefes , and is a powerfull instrument to preserve them safe , that none with any power , with any authority , for any purpose , may get them touched , that must be much opposite to the spirit of god , and good of the church : but , such is independencie , as both reason and experience will prove . behold first severall churches ; suppose , which too oft hath falne out , that the pastor become a pernicious hereticke ; let him beginne with the venome of his doctrine to poyson the hearts of his people , what shall be the remedie ? independency bindes the hands of presbyteries and synods . pastors of neighbouring congregations , have no power to binde , or expell that ravenous wolfe : in the destroyed flock there is no pastor , but the wolfe himselfe . be it so that the people in their judgement of discretion perceive well enough the wickednesse of the false doctrin whereby they are corrupted ; yet the office , charge , and authority to cure their pastors disease , lyeth not on them . the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets : the pastor is not to be proceeded against with censure by the people of his flocke ; for so the order which god hath established in his church , should be inverted , if they whom hee hath commanded to obey should rule : and they whom he hath set above and over the flocke , should be under it . further , suppose the pastor to be most gracious , what if the flocke , or the greater part of the flocke become so wicked as to abuse their pastor , or to abuse the most godly of the congregation ? what if a wicked spirit of heresie , schisme , or tyranny , set the most part of the flocke against god , against their gracious pastor , and the godly of the flocke , what shall be done in this pitifull , and very possible , yea , oft contingent case ? ind●pendency closeth the doore of the troubled congregation , that no man may goe out to cry for any powerfull helpe to neighbours , though their kindled house should burne them all to death ; within there is no remedy ; for all most goe there by the number of voyces , and the most part oppresseth the best , the most wicked go on against the councells , the intreaties , the prayers of the rest , and cease not till they have either corrupted or cast out their pastor , elders , and all of their fellow-members who are constant in goodnesse , that so their wickednesse without controle may domineere in the whole subdued congregation . so long as independency standeth , no effectuall authoratative or powerfull helpe can possibly be found for the preservation of any single congregation against ruine and totall subversion . further , independency hazards the being of all churches as well as of every one . for who shall hinder any member of a corrupted congregation to infect all the neighbour churches with the poyson of his doctrine and manners ? if a ramping lyon , a viperous serpent , a crafty fox should goe and devour all the lambs of the neighbour flocks ; independency doth hinder any order to be taken with that limbe of sathan , no sword of censure can be drawne against him , he must be referred absolutely to his owne congregation ; other churches may intreate , advise , and pray him not to make havoke of them : but should he trouble , infect , and destroy twenty , an hundred , a thousand neighbour congregations , no ecclesiastick censure may passe upon him but by his owne church : and when complaints of him come to his owne church , his misdeedes there are excused , defended , commended ; his heresies are proclamed sound doctrine his devouring of soules is declared to be zeale and painfulnesse to win soules to christ . our argument is backed by experience , as well as by reason ; the first independent church we reade of , was that company which mr. browne brought over from england to middleborough ; how long did it stand before it was destroyed by independency ? when once anabaptistick novelties , and other mischiefes fell among them , there was no remedy to prevent the companies dissolution . when mr. barrow and his fellowes , assaied at london to erect their congregation , the successe was no better ; their ship scarce well set out was quickly splitupon the rocks , was soone dissipate and vanished . when johnstoun & ainsworth would make the third assay , and try if that tree which neither in england nor zealand could take roote , might thrive in holland at amsterdam , where plants of all sorts are so cherished , that few of the most maligne qualite doe miscarry ; yet so singular a malignity is innate in that seede of independency , that in that very ground , where all weedes grow ranke , it did wither : within a few yeares new schismes burst that small church asunder : johnstoun with his halfe , and ainsworth with his made severall congregations , neither whereof did long continnue without further ruptures ; behold who please , with an observant eye these congregations which have embraced independency , they shall finde that never any churches in so short a time have beene disgraced with so many , so unreasonable , and so irreconcileable schismes . against these inconveniences they tell us of two remedies , the duties of charity , and the authority of the magistrate ; but the one is unsufficient , and the other improper the duties of charitie are but mocked by obstinate hereticks and heady schismaticks ; to what purpose are counsells , rebukes , intreaties imployed towards him who is blowne up with the certaine perswasion that all his errors are divine truthes , that all who deale with him to the contrary are in a cleare error , that all the advices given to him are but the words of satan from the mouthes of men tempting him to sinne against god ? as for the magistrate , oft he is not a christian , oft though a christian , he is not orthodoxe , and though both a christian and orthodoxe , yet oft either ignorant or carelesse of ecclesiasticke affaires ; and however , his helpe is never so proper and intrinsecall to the church , that absolutely and necessarily she must depend thereupon . now all our question is about the ordinary , the internall , the necessary remedies which scripture ascribes to the church within it selfe , as it is a church even when the outward hand of the magistrate is deficient or opposite . our sixth and last argument : that which everteth from the very foundation the most essentiall parts of discipline , not only of all the reformed , but of all the churches knowne at any time in any part of the world , till the birth of anabaptisme , it can not be very gracious . but , this doth independency : the minor is cleare by induction : that the government of the scottish church by synods , presbyteries and sessions sworne and subscribed of old , and late by that nation in their solemne covenant ; that the same discipline of the churches of france , holland , swiiz , geneva , as also the politie of the high dutch and english , and all the rest who are called reformed , is turned upside downe by independency , no man doubts ; for this is our adversaries gloriation that they will be tied by no oathes , covenants , subscriptions : they will be hindred by no authority of any man , no reverence of any churches on earth , to seperate from all the reformed , that so alone they may injoy their divine and beloved independency . if you speake of more ancient times , either the purer which followed the apostles at the backe , or the posterior impurer ages ; that the politie of these times in all churches , greeke and latine , is trodden under foote by independency , all likewise doe grant : and how well that new conceit agreeth with the discipline practised in the dayes of christ and his apostles , or in the dayes of moses and the prophets , the preceding arguments will shew . i confesse such is the boldnesse of the men , against whom we now dispute , that although they glory in their contempt of the authoritie of all men , dead and living : yet they offer to overwhelme us with testimonies of a number , as well ancient as late divines : but who desire to see all that dust blowne back in their own eyes who raised it , and the detorted words against the knowne mind and constant practise of the authors , clearely vindicated and retorted , let them be pleased to take a view of mr. pagets posthume apologie , where they will finde abundant satisfaction in this kinde . for the other side , a great bundle of arguments are also brought ; we shall consider the principall . first : to whom christ hath given the right of excommunication the greatest of all censures , they in all other acts of jurisdiction , and in all acts of ecclesiastick discipline , are independent : but christ hath given the right of excommunication to every congregation , and to these alone . ergo , &c. they prove the minor. unto the church christ hath given the right of excommunication mat. . goe tell the church , if he heare not the church , let him be to thee as an ethnicke : but every congregation , and it onely ▪ is the church , because in the whole scripture the word church where ever it is not taken for the church universall , or invisible , is ever understood of a single congregation , which in one place with one pastor serveth god. answer . passing the majors , we deny the minors , and affirme that no where in scripture the word church may be expounded of their independent congregation , and least of all in the alledged place ; if we will advise either with the old or late interpreters , or with the best and most learned of the adversaryes themselves , who affirme with us that by the church math. . no congregation can be understood , unlesse we would bring in among christians most grosse anarchy , except we would set down on the judgment seates of the church every member of the congregation , men , women , young , old , the meanest and weakest part of the people to decide by the number , not the weight of their voyces the greatest causes of the church , to determine finally of the excommunication of pastors , of the nature of haeresie and all doctrine , and that with a decree irrevocable from which there may be no appeal , no not to an oecumenicke synod . wherfore beside the rest of the interpreters a great part of the adversaries by the church in this place understand no whole congregation , nor the most part of any congregation , but a select number thereof , the senate or officers who cognose and discerne according to the scriptures . this is enough for answer to the argument : but if further it be inquired , the senate of which church is pointed at in this place , whether of a parochiall church , or presbyteriall , or nationall , or oecumenicke , or of all these . ans . it seemeth that the senate of all the churches must here be understood , and especially of a presbyteriall church , at least not of a parochiall onely and independently as our adversaries would have it . by no meanes will we have the session of a parish prejudged , and are well content that the authority of parochiall sessions to handle their own proper affaires should be grounded upon this place ; onely we deny that from this place a church-session hath any warrant to take the cognition of things common to it selfe with the neighbouring congregations , or yet to governe her proper affaires absolutely and independently so that none may attempt to correct her when she erreth , or by censure to put her in order when she beginneth by heresie schisme and tyranny to corrupt her selfe and others . that in this place principally the senate of a presbyteriall church is understood , is cleare ; for of such a church christ here speaketh , as were the churches at jerusalem , antioch , corinth , and others in the new testament which we proved before to have bin presbyteriall . the senate of such churches attending on government , and discipline , is here called the church , as elsewhere , act. . . it seemed good to the apostles , elders and whole church : the church met to cognosce on the questions from antioch , cannot be understood of all the thousand christians at jerusalem ; it must then be taken of the presbytery to which the cognition of such questions doth belong . in the fourth verse of the same chapter , paul is said to be received of the church , the word may well be expounded not of the whole body , but of a select number thereof ; even the presbytery ; as in the he is said to be received of the apostles and elders , before the multitude had met together . only observe that however we affirme the senate of a presbyteriall church cheifely here to be established , yet we understand not this in a way independent from provinciall , nationall , or oecumenick synods ; for all these meetings in their owne place and order are also grounded on this passage , as before hath beene declared . their second objection : the practise of the church of corinth , approved by the apostles is the due right of every parochiall church and single congregation : but , the censure of excommunication was the practise of the church of corinth approved by the apostle , cor. . , . do we not judge them that are within ? therefore put away from you that wicked person . this judgement is authoritative , and this putting away is the censure of excommunication , cutting off from the body of christ , which censure is here committed unto the corinthians , being gathered together in one , vers . . and so to them all , and every one of them : for to them all the epistle is written , and not to the presbytery onely . answ . the maior must be denied for two causes ; first , the practise of the corinthians was grounded not onely upon the expresse command of the apostle , but also on the singular presence of the apostles spirit and authority with them in pronouncing the sentence of excommunication against that incestuous person , v. . i as present in spirit have judged already . this singular priviledge of the corinthians is not a ground of common right to every church who wants the authority of the apostles expresse command , and singular presence . secondly , we may not argue from the church of corinth to every congregation ; for it is proved before , that the church of corinth was not congregationall , but presbyteriall , consisting of so many as could not meete commodiously in one private roome ; also it had within it selfe a colledge or senate of many pastors , elders , and prophets ; to such a church we grant willingly the exercise of all acts , both of ordination and jurisdiction . the minor also cannot be admitted but with a double distinction ; the act of excommunication is given to the church of corinth , not according to its whole , but acording to the select part , to wit the presbytery thereof . it maketh nothing against this , that the epistle is written to the whole church ; for what is written to the whole church indefinitely , must be applied according to the matter and purpose , sometime onely to the pastors excluding the people : sometime onely to the people , excluding the pastors : sometimes to both together , to pastors , and flock . the first epistle , chap. . vers . . every one of you saith , i am of paul , i am of apollos , and i of cephas ; this cannot be taken of the pastors , but of the people following schismatically some one , some another of the pastors . likewise , chap. . vers . . let a man so count of us as of the ministers of christ , must be taken of the people , as chap. . vers . . ( now if any man build on this foundation gold , silver , precious stones ) is to be understood of the pastors , as chap. . vers . . also it is required in stewards that a man be found faithfull ; but the most of the other places are to be expounded of both . now that the preceding passages concerning the church-censures , are not true of the whole congregation , it appeares ; for beside the absurdity of confusion & anarchy , it would follow that very women have right judicially to depose , and excommunicate by their voyces their pastors , which the very adversaries professe to reject as absurd , albeit not congruously to their tenets ; for it is not reasonable that the right which from these places they ascribe to every member of the church , should be taken away from women , upon this onely reason that in tim. . . a commandement is given to the women not to teach , but in silence to learne ; for as the brethren of our adversaries , the anabaptists have marked , that place taketh away from women the publicke charge of preaching , but not of speaking in judgement or giving their voyce in church-judicatories . surely , nowhere absolute silence in church-judicatories is injoyned to women , we truly give the power of witnessing , and of selfe-defence as well to women as to men in all church-judicatories . however that the censure of the incestuous man was not inflicted by the whole church , it appeares from the epist . chap . vers . . sufficient to such a man was the punishment which was inflicted of many . who were these many but the officers who were set over the church in the lord ? another distinction also would be marked , that whatsoever right we ascribe to the church of corinth , whether according to its whole , or according to any of its parts , whether we take it for a presbyteriall or a parochiall church , all that right is to be understood not absolutely , nor independently , which here is the onely question . for the church at corinth had no greater priviledges then the church of antioch . now that in a dubious and controverted case , and in a common cause the church of antioch was subordinate unto a synod , it was before proved . their third objection . that which the holy ghost gives unto the seven churches of asia , must be the right of every single congregation . but , the holy ghost gives unto the seven churches of asia all ecclesiasticke jurisdiction within themselves . revel . . . thou canst not beare with them which are evill , and thou hast tryed them which say they are apostles , and hast found them lyars . and ver . . i have a few things against thee , because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of balaam . and ver . . i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest the woman jezabell to teach . here the churches of ephesus , pergamus , and thyatira , are praysed , when they proceeded with censure against those who deserved it : and are dispraysed when they held in the sword of excommunication , and did not cast out hereticks and prophane persons . answ . both the propositions are vitious : the major because the churches in asia were presbyteriall , not congregationall . this we proved of ephesus , and we know no reason why the rest should not be of that same condition . secondly , albeit the churches of asia at that time in the first preaching of the gospell , and so in the great paucity of churches should have had no neighbours with whom commodiously and ordinarily they could keepe society : what is that unto the churches of our dayes who live in the midst of many sisters ? the minor also may not be granted ; for that which the text ascribeth to the angell , may not by and by be applyed to every member of the church . we grant that great reason and many authorities doe prove and evince that the angells in those places cannot be expounded of the single persons of bishops , but of the whole body of the presbytery in the which there was one man chosen by the suffrages of the rest president for a time ; but that by the name of angell should be understood every member of the church , no reason will carry it . beside , there is no consequence from one act of reproofe to the whole right of ecclesiasticke government even in every case ; for a common cause and an appearance of errour and many other things , will inforce a necessity of subordination . their fourth argument : the right of the church of thessalonica and colosse belongs to every church : but , the church of thessalonica and colosse had right to exercise every part of ecclesiasticke discipline within their owne bounds . of the first , see thessalonians . . withdraw your selves from every brother which walketh disorderly , and ver . . note that man , and have no company with him that he may be ashamed . of the second , see col. . . joying and beholding your order . ans . let the maior be true of all the churches of the same species and nature with these of thessalonica and colosse , that is , of all presbyteriall . that the church of thessalonica was such , that it had moe pastors , it is proved from the to the thessalonians . . know them which labour among you , and are over you in the lord and admonish you : that these were pastors , it is the minde of the best interpreters . also that in colosse , beside others , epaphras and archippus did labour in the word and doctrine , is manifest from chap. . ver . . and chap. . . further , let the maior be true of all churches of that same state and condition with those named , to wit , when it falls out that few or no neighbour churches can be had with which such a society may be kept . concerning the minor , suppose that both the right and the exercise of all ecclesiasticke acts were granted to the foresaid churches , yet the question is not touched except you adde independently and in every cause and case even of aberration , and that without all remedy of appeale to any synode ; vpon this hinge the question depends , and of this the argument hath nothing . their fifth argument : that which abolishes our liberty purchased by christs blood , and puts upon out necke a yoke equall to the antichristian tyranny of bishops , is intolerable : but , the dependence of congregations upon presbyteries and synods doth so . ans . the minor is false ; for the subordination of churches imports no slavery & taketh away no liberty which god hath granted ; it is gods discipline and order , it is the easie yoake of christ not to be compared with the cruell bands of bishops , since the one is humane , the other divine : by the meanes of the one , one man commandeth , either according to his free will , or according to the canon-law of the pope ; but by the meanes of the other , moe men advise in common according to the acts of the reformed churches grounded upon the word of god : the judgement seates of bishops are meerely externall to the church which they governe : but , presbyteries and synods are courts internall , for the onely members whereof they consist , are the comissioners of the churches which they govern ; these churches they represent , the minde and desire of these churches they doe propose , unto these churches they give account of all their administration , they confirme and establish the rights of congregations , they doe not abolish nor labefactate any of them . sixthly , these who have power to chuse the pastor , have also the right of the whole ecclesiastick discipline . but every parish hath that power . answ . the major is not necessary ; for there is a great difference betwixt the election of ministers , and ministers ordination , deposition , excommunication , and many other acts of discipline : election is no act of authority or jurisdiction . the minor also is not true , if you understand it of all the members of the congregation ; for it is not needfull that ministers should be chosen by the expresse voyce of every man , muchlesse of every woman of the flocke : yea , that election doth not alwayes belong to the whole flocke , except yee take election as many seeme to doe , for a consent with reason , to the which is opposed , not every , but a rationall dissent grounded upon cleare equity and justice : certainely it is needfull at sometimes to misregard the peoples consent in chusing of a pastor , for why should not a flocke infected with heresie be set under an wholesome and orthodox shepheard whether it will or not , and be rent from under the ministrie of an hereticall shepheard , how much soever against its owne minde ? their seventh argument : that is not of god which maketh pastors bishops of other mens diocesses , and layes upon them the care of other congregations then those to which the holy ghost hath made them overseers : but , the subordination of parishes to presbyteries and synods doth this . answ . the minor is false , for neither doth every member of a presbytery become a pastor to every congregation subordinate to that presbytery , neither are congregations consociated and conjoyned in a presbytery altogether , without the reach of the care and inspection of neighbour pastors . this is cleare , not onely by the arguments formerly deduced from scripture , but by the daily practice of the adversaries ; for themselves professe their care to oversee , and admonish , and rebuke , and to use many other gracious actions as they have occasion , towards neighbouring churches , without any blame of busie bishops , there is almost no difference at all of their acts and ours toward neighbouring churches , so farre as concernes the matter ; the onely question is concerning the fountaines and grounds of these acts , they ascribing their actions onely to charity , we not to charity alone , but to authority grounded upon the former reasons : this difference belongs not to the present plea. their eight argument . onely christ hath authority over the kingdome of god , the house of god , the holy jerusalem , his owne spouse , his owne body . but , every single congregation is the kingdome of god , &c. answ . passing by the minor. the major is false and anabaptisticke : for by the same reason the anabaptists exempt from all authority both ecclesiasticke and civill , not onely every congregation , but every single person who are the members of christ and his spouse , and in whom the kingdome of god doth dwell . the high and excellent stiles of honour which the scripture gives not onely to whole churches but to every particular saint , exempts neither the one nor the other because of their immediate subjection to god and christ , from the bonds and yoake of any authority , either ecclesiasticke or civill , which the lord hath appointed in holy scripture . christs internall government of soules by his spirit albeit never so immediate , taketh not away the externall administration of men either in the church or common wealth . who please to see much more upon this question , let them consult with mr. rutherfoord his peaceable plea , with appolonius and spanheim , with the author of vindiciae clavium , especially with the divines of the assembly , their answers to the reasons of the dissenting brethren ; of purpose i have abstained from making use of any of these writings at this time , waiting for the independents last reply for their reasons , and the modell of their positive doctrin which they have made the world to waite for too too long a time . chap. xi . the thousand yeares of christ his visible raigne upon earth , is against scripture . among all the sparckles of new light wherewith our brethren doe intertaine their owne and the peoples fancie , there is none more pleasant then that of the thousand yeares ; a conceit of the most ancient and grosse hereticke cerinthus , a little purged by papias , and by him transmitted to some of the greeke and latine fathers , but quickly declared , both by the greek and latine church to be a great error , if not an heresie . since the dayes of augustine unto our time , it went under no other notion , and was imbraced by no christian we heare of , till some of the anabaptists did draw it out of its grave : for a long time after its resurrection , it was by all protestants contemned ; onely alstedius , after his long abode in transilvania , began in his last times to fall into likeing with some parts thereof , pretending some passages of piscator for his incouragement . alstedius heterodox writings were not long abroad when mr. meade at cambridge was gained to follow him : yet both these divines were farre from dreaming of any personall raigne of christ upon earth : onely mr. archer , and his colleague , t. g. at arnheim , were bold to set up the whole fabricke of chiliasme , which mr. burrowes in his london lectures upon hosea doth presse as a necessary and most comfortabe ground of christian religion , to be infused into the hearts of all children by the care of every parent at the catechising of their family . our brethrens mind in this point , as i conceive , they have printed ; is this , that in the yeare . or at furthest , . christ in his humane nature and present glory is to come from heaven unto jerusalem where he was crucified ; at that time the heaven and earth , and all the workes therein , are to be burnt and purged by that fire of conflagration , mentioned by peter , epist . chap. . at the same time all the martys , and many of the saints both of the old and new testament are to rise in their bodies ; the jewes from all the places where now they are scattered shall returne to canaan and build jerusalem : in that city christ is to raigne for a full thousand yeares ; from thence he is to goe out in person to subdue with great bloodshed by his owne hand all the disobedient nations ; when all are conquered , except some few lurking in corners , then the church of jewes and gentiles shall live without any disturbance from any enemy , either without or within ; all christians then shall live without sinne , without the word and sacraments or any ordinance : they shall passe these thousand yeares in great worldly delights , begetting many children , eating and drinking and injoying all the lawfull pleasures which all the creatures then redeemed from their ancient slavery can afford . in this earthly happinesse shall the church continue till the end of the thousand yeares when the relicks of the turkish and heathenish nations shall besiege the new jerusalem , and christ with fire from heaven shall destroy them : afterwards followeth the second resurrection of all the dead good and bad for the last judgement . thus farre the independent preach and print : further cerinthus himselfe went not , if you will except the polygamy and sacrifices of the old israelits . what truth may be in these things , let the arguments which are usually brought ▪ either pro or contra , declare . against the mentioned tenet i reason , first , he that remaines in the heaven unto the last judgement comes not downe to the earth a thousand yeare before the last judgement . but , christ remaines in the heaven unto the last judgement . ergo. the maior is unquestionable ; the minor is proved from the article of our creede . from that place he shall come to judge the quicke and the dead , importing that christ from the time of his ascention doth abide in the heaven at the right hand of the father , and commeth not downe from that place to the earth till he descend in the last day to judge the quicke and the dead . i know they are not moved with the authority of any humane creed , yet they would doe well to speake out their minde of this article , as they doe of some others . surely to say that christ shall come from heaven in his humane nature , to abide a thousand yeares on the earth , and then to returne againe to the heaven , that he may discend the third time from the heaven in the last day to judge the quicke and the dead , is so evident a perverting of that article that mr. mead their great doctor and leader in this tenet , to eschew it , falleth into a very strange and singular conceit , wherein i doubt whether any of the independents will be pleased to follow him ; with all other orthodox divines he makes but two commings of christ from the heaven to the earth ; the first at the incarnation , the second at the day of judgement : but this day of judgement he extends to a round thousand yeares , and this day to him is the onely time of the millenary raigne . we neede not refute this fancie ; for the best arguments which are brought for it , are some testimonies from the talmudicke rabbins , and these , as i conceive , understood against the true sence of the authors . the streame of scripture and reason runne more against this conceit then any other part of chiliasme , as the most of the chiliasts themselves will confesse . however , what i brought from the apostolick creed of christ his aboade in the heaven till the last day , i prove it from scripture , acts. . whom the heavens must receive till the time of the restitution of all things which god hath spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began . this place proveth clearely the aboade of christs body in the heaven till the time of the restitution of all things . so much our brethren grant , but they deny our assumption that the time of the restitution of all things is the last day ; this therefore we prove not by the testimony of all the reformed , who unanimously bring this place as a maine ground against the papists and lutherans in the questions of transubstantiation and ubiquity , but by three reasons from the text it selfe . first , that time here is understood when all things that are spoken of by all the prophets , are performed : but , all things spoken of by all the prophets , are not performed till the last day . master burrowes alleadgeance that all the prophets are frequent and large upon the raigne of the yeares , but rare and sparing upon the doctrine of the last judgement and life eternall , might well have beene spared for the one halfe of it , and left to the socino-remonstrants ; but suppose it were all true , yet if any of the prophets have spoken any thing at all of the last judgement , as the apostle jude puts it out of question even of enoch it is cleare that the time of the performing of all things , which any of the prophets have spoken , cannot possibly exist before the last judgement , as we may see rom. . ver . . compared ver . . . where the restitution of the creatures to their desired liberty comes not before the redemption of our bodyes , and the glory to be revealed upon the whole church at the last day . secondly , the time here spoken of is when the jewes to whom peter did speake , were to be refreshed , by the lords presence ; but this shall not be before the generall resurrection ; for the chiliasts doe maintaine that all the jewes shall not rise , neither that any of them to whom the apostle did then speake , shall be partakers of the first resurrection , unlesse some of them who were martyres ; for the honour and glory of this first resurrection , the most of them make it so rare and singular a priviledge , that daniel himselfe does not obtaine it but by a speciall promise . thirdly , the time when god doth solemly before men and angels declare the absolution and blotting out of the sinnes of all his people , is not before the last day . but this is the time whereof the apostle peter speakes in the present place , as appeares by the verse ; that your sinnes may be blotted out , when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the lord. take but one other place for christs aboade in the heaven till the last day . john . . . i goe to prepare a place for you , i will come againe and receive you to my selfe , that where i am there you may be . behold christ goes to the heaven and comes backe againe but once , for this very end , to take his disciples with him , not to abide with them upon the earth , but to place them in the mansions of his fathers house in the heavens , which he went to prepare for them , wherein all the time of his absence he himselfe was to remaine . a second argument we take from christs sitting at the right hand of god. this errour how innocent soever it seeme to some , yet it perverts the true sence of sundry articles of our creed , and forceth its followers to coyne new and false senses to a great many scriptures whereupon these articles were builded . this was the reason why neither piscator nor alstedius nor mead when they laide too fast hold upon some of the branches of chiliasme , yet the bulke and roote of that tree , christs comming downe to the earth in his humane nature a thousand yeares before the last day , they durst never touch : but our brethren have more venturous spirits , they see much further then their masters , they scruple nothing to make all these things popular and catecheticke doctrine . the reason i spoke of , is this , christ sits at the right hand of god till the last day . ergo , he comes not to reigne on earth a thousand yeares before the last day . the consequence is builded upon this proposition , christs sitting at the right hand of the father is not in earth but in heaven , which many scriptures prove . ephes . . . he set him at his own right hand in heavenly places . heb. . . he sat downe at the right hand of the majesty on high . heb. . . he is set on the right hand of the throne of the maiesty in the heavens . the antecedent i prove thus , he sits at the right hand of god till all his enemies be made his footstoole . so speakes the psalmist , psal . . . but all his enemies are not made his footstoole till the last day : for till then , satan , sinne , death , and all wicked men are not fully destroyed . our third argument we take from the resurrection of the dead . all the godly at christs comming from heaven doe rise immediately to a heavenly glory . ergo , none of them doe arise to a temporall glory of a thousand yeares upon earth . the antecedent see in heb. . . vnto them that looke for him shall he appeare the second time without sin unto salvation . christ hath but two times of comming to the earth , first in weakenes to die upon the crosse ; the second time in glory to give eternall salvation without distinction to all beleevers who looke for his comming . also thes . . . them which sleepe in jesus , will he bring with him . the lord himselfe shall discend from heaven with a shout , and the dead in christ shall rise first ; then we which are alive shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meete the lord in the ayre , and so shall we be ever with the lord. the ground of comfort which the apostle propounds to the thessalonians for all their dead , as well martyrs as others , was their resurrection , not before the lords comming with the voice of the archangell , but at that time when all the dead in christ without exception do arise , and non of them abide on the earth , but all are caught up in the ayre to meete the lord , and all remaine with him eternally thereafter without any separation . see also , cor. . . in christ shall all be made alive , but every man in his owne order ; christ the first fruits , afterward they that are christs at his comming ; then commeth the end when he shall have delivered up the kingdome to god. the apostle here speakes of the resurrection of all , and particularly of the martyrs such as with the apostle dyed daily and every houre were in jepoardy and fought with beasts ; although he professes to distinguish the diversity of order that might be in this great worke of the resurrection : yet he affirmes that these who are christs , do not arise till his comming ; and his comming he makes not to be till the last day when christ renders up his oeconomicke kingdome , having destroyed all his enemies , especially death , & fully perfected the work of his mediation . this resurrection is after the sound of the last trumpet , when all the godly rise , and are changed , and put on incorruption and immortallity , when death is swallowed up into victory , and the godly inherit the kingdome of god ; these things are done at the last day , not a thousand yeares before it , as john . christ avoweth thrice , in the end , ver . . . . i will raise him up at the last day . at that time the judgement is universall , both of the godly and wicked ; and the execution of both their sentences is immediately by the present glorification of the one and the destruction , of the other as we have it math. . . when the son of man shall come in his glory , before him shall be gathered all nations ; and he shall separate them one from another , as a shepheard divideth his sheepe from the goats . fourthly , we reason from the nature of christs kingdome . the conceit of the thousand yeares makes christs kingdome to be earthly , and most observeable for all worldly glory ; but the scripture makes it to be spirituall without all wordly pompe ; neither doth the word of god make the kingdome of the mediator of two kindes , and of a different nature , but one , uniforme from the beginning to the end , luke . . the lord shall give him the throne of his father david , and he shall raigne over the house of jacob for ever . cor. . . he must raigne till he have put all things under his feete ; here there is but one kingdome , and one way of ruling , a kingdome meerely spirituall , and nowise worldly . luke . . the kingdome of god commeth not with observation , neither shall they say loe here , or loe there , but the kingdome of god is within you . john . . my kingdome is not of this world ; if my kingdome were of this world , then would my servants fight ; but now is my kingdome not from hence . rom. . the kingdome of god is not meate and drinke , but righteousnesse , peace , and joy of the holy ghost . ephes . . . he raised him from the dead and set him at his right hand in heavenly places , and hath put all things under his feete , and gave him to be head over all to the church . the millenaries make his kingdome to appeare in armies and battells , in feasts and pleasures , in worldly pompe and power , and will not have his kingdome to stand in any of that spirituall power which since his ascention he hath executed on principalities and powers , or shall performe upon the soules of men , till these thousand yeares of worldly power and earthly glory visible to the eyes of men shall begin . we take our fifth argument from the nature of the church ; scripture makes the church of god so long as it is upon the earth to be a mixed multitude , of elect and reprobate , good and bad , a company of people under the crosse and subject to various temptations , a company that hath neede of the word and sacraments , of prayer and ordinances , that hath christ a high priest within the vaile of heaven interceding for them . but , the doctrine in hand changes the nature of the church , and makes it for a thousand yeares together to consist onely of good and gracious persons , without all trouble , without all ordinances , without any neede of christs intercession . for the first , that scripture makes the church alwayes to be a mixed company , see matth. . . as the tares are gathered and burnt in the fire , so shall it be in the end of the world . the sonne of man shall send forth his angels , and they shall gather out of his kingdome all things that offend and that doe iniquity : and vers . . so shall it be in the end of the world , the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just . also , chap. . . many false prophets shall arise and deceive many , & because iniquity shall abound , the love of many shall waxe cold . luke . . when the sonne of man commeth , shall he finde faith upon the earth ? these places declare the mixture of the wicked with the godly in the church to the worlds end , and most about the end . as for crosses , see psal . . . many are the afflictions of the righteous . mat . blessed are they that mourne and that are persecuted for righteousnesse . acts . . by many tribulations we must enter into the kingdome of heaven . rom. . . if so we suffer with him , that we may be glorified together . tim. . . all that will live godly in christ jesus , must suffer persecution . heb. . . whom the lord loves , he correcteth , and he scourgeth every child that he receives . many such places shew the condition of the church in this life that she is ever subject to tribulation . concerning ordinances , that they must continue to the last day , see ephes . . . he gave some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints for the worke of the ministry , for the edifying of the body of christ till we all come to a perfect man. and for the continuance of the sacraments , cor. . . as often as you eate this bread and drinke this cup , yee doe shew the lords death till hee come . that in the most godly while they live on earth , sinne doth remaine , and that alwayes we have neede of christs intercession in the heaven with the father , it is cleare from john . . if wee say we have no sinne , the truth of god is not in us . and chap. . ver . . but if any man sinne , we have an advocate with the father . heb. . . christ is entred into the heaven it selfe now to appeare in the presence of god for us . thus the scripture describes the condition of the church on earth ; but the doctrine in hand alters much the nature of it for a great part of its time here : for of the yeares which they give to the church from the comming of christ to the last judgement , they make her to consist for a whole thousand yeares only of godly persons , without the mixture of any one wicked ; and all the millions who are borne in the church in that large time , they are free from their birth to their death of all crosses , of all sorrowes , of all temptations , and as it seemes of all sinne also ; for that is the time of the restitution of all things when old things are past and all things become new : they make them to have neede neither of word nor sacraments , or any church-ordinance , neither of christs intercession in the heavens with the father ; for they have him among them in the earth , and they are freed from all sinne ; and all misery . a sixth argument . scripture makes the time of christs second comming to be secret and hid , not onely to men , but to the very angels , and to christ himselfe as he is man , marke . . but of that day and that houre knoweth no man , no not the angels which are in heaven , neither the sonne , but the father . but this doctrine makes that day open , and tells the time of it punctually ; for they make the thousand yeares to begin with the yeare , or else with the . and the day of judgement to be at the end of the thousand yeares ; so if their count doe hold , every child in the church might tell us that christ will come to judgement in the beginning of the yeare , or at farthest in the beginning of the . a seventh argument . the reward of the martyrs is eternall life in the heavens , promised to them at christs comming to judge the just and the unjust . ergo , it is not temporall in an earthly kingdome of a thousand yeares . the antecedent is proved from matth. . . blessed are they that are persecuted for righteousnesse , for theirs is the kingdome of heaven . tim . . i am now ready to be offered , and the time of my departure is neare ; i have fought a good fight ; i have finished my course ; henceforth is laid up for me a crowne of righteousnesse , which the lord the righteous judge shall give at that day , &c. the reward that paul expects after his martyrdome , is the crowne which christ at the last day gives to all that waite for his comming at that time when he takes ven-geance on the wicked , as we have it thes . . , , , . . where the rest and retribution of the martyrs , of paul himselfe and those who at that time were troubled for the gospell , is said to be at christs coming to take vengeance in flaming fire on all the wicked , and to be glorified in all the saints , and admired in all them that beleeve which without all doubt is not before the last judgement ; and if it were otherwise , the martyres would be at a losse ; for instead of a reward , a punishment should be put upon them , their condition should be made worse then that of the common saints , who during the time of the thousand yeares remaine in the heavens among the angels , beholding and injoying the trinity , while the soules of the martyrs are brought downe to the earth , and returne to a body , not like to the glorious body of christ , nor unto these incorruptible , immortall , spirituall bodies , which yet are promised to the least of the faithfull at their resurrection , cor. . but unto such a body that eates , drinkes , sleepes , fights , delights in fleshly pleasures , and converses with beasts and earthly creatures , in such a paradise whereof the turkish alcorane and the jewish talmud doth speake much ; but to a godly soule is very tasteles , and to a soule that hath beene in heaven , or to one that injoyes the presence of christ , is exceeding burthensome and bitter . an eight reason . the opinion of the millenaries supposeth the restauration of jerusalem and of the jewish kingdome after their destruction by the romans . but , scripture denies this , ezek. . , . when i shall bring againe the captivity of sodome and her daughters , and the captivity of samaria and her daughters , then will i bring againe the captivity of thy daughters in the midst of them . when thy sister sodome and her daughters shall returne to their former estates , and samaria and her daughters shall returne to their former estate , then thou and thy daughters shall returne to your former estate . the jewes are never to be restored to their ancient outward estate , much lesse to a greater and more glorious kingdome . ierusalem was to be rebuilded , and the spirituall glory of the second temple was to be greater then the first ; and in the end of this same chapter , the restitution of the iewes after the babylonish captivity , by the vertue of the new covenant is promised ; but the outward estate of that people was never to be restored to its ancient lustre more then samaria , or sodome , as amos speakes of samaria , chap. . . the virgine of israel is fallen , she shall no more rise . and isaiah of jerusalem , the transgression thereof shall be heavy , and it shall fall and not rise againe , according to the prophesie of iacob , gen. . . the scepter shall not depart from iudah till shiloh come . importing that the tribe of iudah should ever have some outward visible rule till the comming of christ in the flesh ; but thereafter the scepter and power of the church should be onely spirituall in the hand of shiloh the messias ; he was the substance and the body of all these types , the restauration of ierusalem and the erecting of a new monarchy in iudah , for the iewes , were to bring backe the old evanished shadowes contrary to the doctrine and nature of the gospell . one other reason . the millenaries lay it for a ground , that antichrist shall be destroyed and fully abolished before their thousand yeares beginne ; but scripture makes antichrist to continue to the day of judgement . thes . . . then shall that wicked man be revealed whom the lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth , and shall destroy with the brightnesse of his comming . the brightnesse of christs comming is not before the last day , as before is proved . see also , revel . . . the beast was taken , and with him the false prophet ; these both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone . compare it with vers . . let us be glad and rejoyce , for the marriage of the lambe is come . antichrist is cast alive into the lake at the marriage of the lambe ; no living men are cast into hell before the last day ; and christs marriage with his church is not solemnized with a part of the elect , but with the whole bodie at the generall resurrection . for the opposite tenet divers scriptures are brought ; above all , rev. , , . and i saw the soules of them that were beheaded for the witnesse of jesus , and they lived and raigned with christ a thousand yeares ; but the rest of the dead lived not againe till the thousand yeares were finished ; this is the first resurrection . hence they do infer christs personall reigne upon earth for a thousand yeares ; also the resurrection of the martyrs , and of some others a thousand yeares before the generall resurrection : divers such conclusions doe they draw from this place . we answer , first , that the resurrection here is mentioned onely occasionally ; also this place , as the most of this booke , is mysticall and allegoricall ; besides , it is without all controversie , the words cited are among the most obscure and difficult places of the whole scripture ; the most of the places alleadged in the former arguments did speake of the resurrection purposely and at large ; also in proper termes , without any tropes or figures , and were all cleare without obscurity ; it is not reasonable to bring an argument from one place where a point is handled onely by the way and that in mysticall and exceeding obscure termes , against a multitude of places wherein the matter is handled of purpose largely and clearely . secondly , they who from this place reason against the common tenet , doe differ all of them among themselves in sundry materiall conclusions , the old chiliasts from the late , and the late one from another alstedius , mead , archer , goodwin , burrowes , matton ; every one of them have their proper conceits wherein they differ from the rest , as will be found by any who compare their writings . thirdly , in all this chapter there is not one syllable to prove christs being upon the earth , but that one word of the saints reigning with christ . suppose the text had expressed that they who did reigne with christ , had beene upon earth themselves ; this would not prove that christ ( because they are said to raigne with him ) was upon earth with them ; for rom. . . if children , then joynt-heires with christ , if so be● that we suffer with him that we may be also glorified together . there is here in one verse three paralell phrases with that in hand , heires with christ , suffering with christ , glorified with christ ; and a fourth , ephes . . . who hath blessed us with all spirituall blessings in heavenly places in christ ; will it hence follow that christs humane nature was then upon earth with them who suffered with him , were heires with him , were blessed in him in heavenly places with all spirituall graces , and were to be glorified with him ? if none of these foure phrases imply a personall presence of christ upon earth with men , much lesse will the place controverted doe it ; for they speak expresly of men living upon the earth , but it speakes as expresly of the soules of men that were in the heaven ; the same that are mentioned , revel . . . i saw under the altar the soules of them that were slaine for the word of god. this place then is so farre from proving christs personall presence upon earth , that it imports the contrary , both because they that are said to reigne with him , were not upon the earth , but under the altar in heaven ; and also because in vers . . christs throne whereupon he judges the quicke and the dead , is mentioned after the raigne of these thousand yeares . now we have proved from many scriptures that christ remaines in the heavens till he come downe in the last day to sit upon that throne . fourthly , we deny that there is any thing in this place which imports a bodily resurrection . they can produce no scripture where the first resurrection is ever applyed to the body ; there be sundry places to prove a spirituall resurrection of the soule , from the death and grave of sinne , of errors and corruptions , before the last resurrection of the body , coll. . . you are risen with him through fayth : also . . if then ye be risen with christ &c. but a first resurrection of the body no scripture intimates ; for so there should be not onely a first and second , but a third resurrection , as they tell us of a first , second , and third comming of christ to the earth . further , the resurrection here spoken of is attributed to the soules of them that were beheaded ; these are not capable of a bodily resurrection , in propriety of speech ; and if to these soules , men at their owne pleasure without any warrant from scripture , will ascribe a body , they fall into a great inconvenience : for their love to this imagined first resurrection of the body , they overthrow both the heaven and the hell which hitherto have beene beleeved ; and make no scruple to create a new heaven and a new hell of their owne invention , to the dangerous scandall of all christians . master archer seeing well the absurdity to bring a soule from heaven backe again to an earthly condition , tells us plainely that no soule at all went ever to that which we call heaven ; that the soule of christ at his death , and of the good theife went onely to an elementary paradise , a place below the moone , in the region of the ayre , or at highest in the element of the fire ; that enoch and elias are gone no higher ; that no soule of any of the saints goes to the third heavens where christ is , unto the last day . as for hell , he tells us that all christians but the independent his followers , have beene in an error about it ; he teaches that the hell whether the wicked now goes , is not that fire prepared for the divell and his angells , whether at the last judgement they shall be sent ; but onely a place of prison in the low region of the aire , or in some part of the sea , where the soules of the wicked are kept till the day of judgement ; but at the day of judgement , he tells us of a second hell , very large , and farre higher then the present heaven of the saints , the whole body of the foure elements , all the heavens of the planets and fixed starres , and what ever else is below the third heavens the habitation of god ; he turnes it all into the first chaos , and makes all that confused body without any distinction , to be hell . in all this , the man is so confident , as if there were nothing in these strange novelties to be called in question . fifthly , we deny that in this place there is one syllable for any earthly kingdome . they shall reigne with christ , therefore they shall reigne with him upon earth : this is an addition to the text. for , suppose the words did import a reigning upon earth , yet this would not inferre an earthly reigne , for the kingdome of christ is spirituall ; like his preisthood , and these two are here conjoyned , ver . . they shall be preists of god and of christ , and shall reigne with him . christians on earth are preists , but not to offer bodily sacrifice ; and while they are upon earth they are kings , but not to rule mens outward estates : for if so , then there should be all these thousand yeares many more kings then subjects . master archer tells us confidently without any scruple , that not the martyres alone , and some few priviledged saints , as his colleague t. g. would have it , but that all the godly without any exception , shall rise and be kings to rule and judge the saints , who shall be borne in the thousand yeares , suppose it should be no disparagement for all these who then shall be borne , to be excluded , while they live from all places of authority and power : yet would it not be some piece of disorder to have more kings to command then subjects to obey , for i suppose that the godly of all by-gone ages arising together will be many more then the saints in any one age of these thousand yeares . sixthly , we deny that a thousand yeares in any propriety of speech , can be applyed to christs personall reigne ; for if we speak of his reigne either in his nature or person , it is eternall , and not to be measured by any yeares or time ; and if we speake of his regall office as mediatour , it must be much longer then a thousand yeares ; for although we should cut off from his monarchy all the yeares that are past since his birth to this day , which were much against the currant of scripture , since all this while he hath beene sitting upon the throne of his father david , and ruling his church as king and monarch thereof ; yet it were uncomely to confine the time of his reigne to come to a thousand yeares ; this were too small an endurance for his monarchy . many humane principalities , sundry states and empires which have beene and this day are in the world , might contend for a longer continuance , for this cause it seemes to be that master archer the most resolute doctor in this question that i have met with , makes the thousand yeares we debate of , to be onely the evening of christs personall reigne ; but to the morning therof wherein at leisure all the processes of the last judgement are gone through , he ascribes a great many more yeares , readily another thousand ; and why not two or three or more thousands ? it is good to be wise to sobriety ; arrogant curiosity and presumptuous wantonnesse of wit ●s detestable , though in the best men . seventhly , the place makes satan to be bound up onely from seducing the nations , that he should not be able as before the comming of christ he was , to misleade the nations of the whole world to idolatry , a free doore then being opened to the gospell in every nation , for their conversion to the truth ; but our new doctors extend the place much further ; they will have satan bound up for a yeares , not onely from seducing nations to idolatry , but from tempting any person to any sin ; this is contrary to these scriptures which makes every saint in all ages , to fight not onely with flesh and bloud , but with principalities and powers : which makes satan always to goe about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devoure ; and that so boldly that in the very presence of christ , he doth seeke to winnow the best of his disciples : yea , the place in hand gives to satan in the very time of the thousand yeares , so great power upon multitudes of men who never were sanctified , but ever his vassalls , led by him at his will , that he makes them compasse the holy city , and the campe of the saints to fight against god , till fire from heaven did destroy them . beside this famous place , master archer , master mattoun and t. g. in his glimps , bring a number of other scriptures for their tenet , wherewith we neede not meddle : for master petree , and master hayne in peculiar treatises have answered them all ; onely the cheife of them , which master burrows in his treatise upon hos . . is pleased to chuse out , we will consider . he builds much upon daniel . . as if it did prove the resurrection of some of the godly to an earthly glory a thousand yeares before the last judgement ; he borroweth from the glimpse foure arguments , word by word ; there is a fifth also in the glimpse , which the most of that party doe much insist upon ; the first is taken from the second verse of that chap. at the last judgement say they , all shall rise ; but , in that place , many doe rise , not all . answer . we prove that the prophet speakes here of the last resurrection , by two grounds which our brethren will not deny . first , the resurrection unto life eternall is onely at the last day ; but the resurrection whereof daniel speakes , is expresly to life eternall ; not that prior resurrection which out brethren aime at , to a temporall kingdome of a thousand yeares . secondly , the resurrection of the wicked to eternall shame , is onely at the last day ; for according to our brethrens doctrine , the wicked have no part of the first resurrection , and rise not till the thousand yeares be ended ; now , the resurrection whereof daniel speakes in verse . is expressely of the wicked to shame and death , as well as of the godly to life and glory . as for their argument from the word many , it proves not that all did not rise , but onely that these that did rise , were many and a great multitude . therefore deodate translates the words well according to the sence of the originall , the multitude of these that sleepe in the dust . the collectives , omnes & multi , are sometimes synonemy's , according to the matter in hand ; as omnes must sometimes be taken for multi ; so multi must sometimes be taken for omnes . secondly , they reason from the third verse , that in the last resurrection the bodies of all the saints shall shine as the sunne : but , in the resurrection whereof the prophet speakes , no body shines as the sunne , but some as the starres , others as the firmament . answ . the preceding verse evinces unanswerably , that the prophet here is speaking of the last resurrection to life everlasting ; as for the argument , it doth not follow that they who here are said to have so much glory , may not elsewhere be said to have more ; for that which here the prophet intends to expresse is not the absolute but the comparative glory of the saints ; however the least disciple should shine as the sunne , yet if ye compare his glory with the greater light of an other , you may expresse the glory of both in the similitude of lightsome bodies lesse glorious then the sunne , if so these bodies differ one from another in degrees of glory ; for all that the prophet here aimes at , is onely this difference of glory . christ in the gospell makes all the saints to shine as the sunne , yet the apostle cor. . . distinguishing the different degrees of glory that is among the saints , scruples not to expresse the glory of the most of them in the similitude of bodies lesse glorious then the sunne ; there is one glory of the sunne , another glory of the moone , another of the starres ; for one starre differeth from another starre in glory ; so also is the resurrection from the dead . further , will our brethren affirme that the bodies of the saints on earth during the time of those thousand yeares , shall be so farre changed , as to shine like the starres , and yet to eate , drinke , and sleepe ? so much glory can hardly stand with so much basenesse . thirdly , they reason from the fourth verse ; the last resurrection is no mystery nor any secret to be sealed up to the end of the vision . but , the resurrection here spoken of , is such a mystery as must be sealed up . answer , first , according to mr. burrowes expresse profession in the same place , the argument may be inverted ; for the first resurrection to the thousand yeares of glory , he makes a doctrine very well knowne and much insisted upon by all the prophets before christ ; but the generall resurrection and life everlasting he makes to be a hid and secret doctrine which the prophets in the old testament doe scarcely touch . secondly , life eternall and death eternall , heaven and hell , are to this day very great mysteries to the most of the world ; and scriptures concerning these , are hid and closed above any other . thirdly , the words speake not onely of the resurrection , but of the whole preceding prophecie , especially of the peoples deliverance by michael the prince from the oppression of antiochus , which was not much to be understood till it came to passe . fourthly , they reason from the last verse ; life eternall is common to all the saints , and no singular priviledge of daniels . but , the resurrection here spoken of , is promised to daniel as a singular favour . answer , mr. archer who is deepest learned in these mysteries , affirmes . that all the goldly as well as daniel , had their part in the first resurrection ; and indeede , if once you begin to distinguish , it will be hard to finde satisfactory grounds to give this glory to daniel , and to deny it to david , to moses , to abraham and many others . secondly , we may well say that life eternall albeit common to all the saints , yet is so divine , so rare and singular a mercy to every one that gets it , that it may be propounded to daniel and every saint as a soveraigne comfort against the bitternesse of all their troubles . thirdly , the place according to the best interpreters , speakes nothing at all of any resurrection ; onely it imports a promise to daniel to live in peace all his dayes , that notwithstanding all the troubles , of the church which he saw in these visions ( as diodate translates it ) yet so farre as concerned himself he should goe on to his end , and rest , stand , or continue in his present honours and prosperous condition to his death , and 〈…〉 of his dayes . fifthly , from the . and . verse they conclude peremptorily the beginning of these thousand yeares to be in the yeare ; or at furthest for they make the dayes to be so many yeares , and the dayes to be yeares more ; these they make to beginne in the raigne of julian the apostate who after constantine's death , did re-establish paganisme in the empire , and encouraged the jewes to build the temple of jerusalem , till god hindred them by an earthquake which did cast up the foundation-stones of the old temple . beginning their account at this time , the end of their first number falls on the yeere , and of the second on the yeare . this is archers calculation , which t. g. and others follow precisely . answer , we marvell at the rashnesse of men who by the example of many before them , will not learne greater wisedome ; if they needes must determine peremptorily of times and seasons , that they doe not extend their period beyond their owne dayes , that they be not , as some before them , laughed at before their owne eyes , when they have lived to set the vanity of their too confident predictions ; however , in this calculation , there seemes nothing to be sound ; neither the beginning , nor the middle , nor the later end . if the thousand yeares begin in the yeare , if christ then come in person to the earth , what will keepe him from perfecting his kingdome to the yeare thereafter ; will he spend whole yeares in warres against the nations , before they be subdued to his scepter ? secondly , what warrant have they to begin their account with the empire of julian ? did he set up any abomination at all in the church of god ? he opened againe in the territories of his empire the pagan temples , which by constantine had been closed ; by counsell and example he allured men to idolatry ; but he troubled not any christians in the liberty of their profession , he did not set up idolatry in any christian congregation ; the lord did quickly kill him and so prevented his intended persecution of christians . but although it could be verified of him , that he did set up the abomination of desolation in the temple ; yet how made he the daily sacrifice to cease ? he was so far from this , that to t● uttermost of his power he laboured to set up againe the daily sacrifice which some hundred yeares ceased . scripture speakes onely of two times wherein the solemne sacrifice was made to cease , and the abomination of desolation was set up . first , by antiochus epiphanes , and then by titus vespasian ; but of julian his making the sacrifice to cease , scripture speakes nothing . that story of the earthquake whereupon mr archer builds , albeit reported by some of the ancients , seemes to be a great fable ; certainely , the application of it to christs prophesie of the gospel , a stone shall not be left upon a stone , as if this had not been fulfilled till that earthquake had cast up all the foundation-stones of the ancient temple , is very temerarious . as the beginning and end of their calculation is groundlesse , so also the midst and the whole body of it is frivolous . what necessity is there to expound dayes by yeares especially in that place , where yeares are divided into dayes ? in the very preceding words , vers . . the dayes here mentioned , are expressed by a time , times , and halfe a time : can they shew in any place of scripture that ever a day is put for a yeare , where yeares , and dayes are conjoyned , and a few yeares are extended in the enumeration of all the dayes that are in these yeares ? the words of the prophet daniel are cleare , if they be taken as they lie ; but if they be strained to a mysticall sense , they become inexplicable . the lord is comforting the prophet and the whole church by the short indurance of the desolations which antiochus was to bring upon them ; for from the time of his scattering of the jewes , and discharging of the solemne sacrifice , unto the breaking of the yoake of his tyranny , it should be but three yeares and a halfe with a few more dayes : yea , unto that happy time when the plague of god should fall on his person , it should be but dayes more . the history of josephus and the maccabees , makes the event accord with this prediction . why then should we straine the text any further to a new sence which neither agrees with the event nor with the words ? another place alleadged by mr. burrowes , is psalme . . when the lord shall build up sion , he shall appeare in his glory ; as if this did import both the building againe of sion and also christs glorious appearance upon the earth . answer . this place speaks of no such things ; the ordinary exposition of late and old interpreters , agrees so well with the contexture of the whole psalme , that to drive it farther , were needlesse , the place speakes of the babylonish captivity , and of the earnest desire of the godly at that time to have jerusalem and sion then in the dust , againe restored . this desire of the saints is granted , and a promise is made to them that sion should be againe builded , and that the lord by this act of mercy should get great glory . but for any third building of sion after the dayes of the messias , or for any personall raigne of christ upon earth , no syllable in this place doth appeare . his next place is rom. . . if the fall of them be the riches of the world , and the diminishing of them be the riches of the gentiles ; how much more their fullnesse ? ans . there is nothing here for the point in hand : we grant willingly that the nation of the jewes shall be converted to the fayth of christ ; and that the fullnesse of the gentiles is to come in with them to the christian church ; also that the quickning of that dead and rotten member , shall be a matter of exceeding joy to the whole church . but that the converted jewes shall returne to canaan to build jerusalem ; that christ shall come from the heaven to reigne among them for a thousand yeares , there is no such thing intimated in the scriptures in hand . master burrous fifth place , is acts . , . he shall send iesus christ whom the heavens must receive unto the times of the restitution of all things . ans . that these words are to be understood of christs comming to the last judgement , and not of his comming to any temporall kingdome on earth , we did before prove . his sixth place , is pet. . . . but the day of the lord will come as a theife in the night , in the which the heavens shall passe away with a great noyse , and the elements shall melt with fervent heate ; the earth also and the works that are therein , shall be burnt up : neverthelesse we according to his promise , looke for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousnesse . ans . first it would be remembred that our brethren do adde among many other things , this also unto the tenet of the old chiliasts , that before their golden age the earth and all things therein must be destroyed ; that the earth wherein they are to reigne , that the beasts , foules , fishes , trees and all other creatures they are to make use of in their thousand yeares , are to be of new created , all the old creatures in their whole kindes being burnt to ashes , and destroyed . we say secondly , that this place is miserably misinterpreted ; for all that the apostle is saying , is in answer to the scoffers cavill verse . requiring in scorne the performance of the promise of christs comming , not unto this thousand yeares raigne , but to the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men , as the apostle speaks expressely vers . . now , all the chiliasts confesse that this judgement and that perdition , is not till after the thousand yeares ; so the burning of necessity according to their owne grounds , cannot precede , but must follow them . thirdly , the time whereof the apostle speakes , is called the day of the lord , the usuall discription of christs comming to judgement ; also the day that comes on the world as a theefe in the night , which phrase oftentimes in scripture is attributed unto christs comming unto judgement , but is not true of his comming to the millenary reigne : for the calculation of that time is so well knowne , that it is preached and printed to be at such a yeare , if not such a mounth or day . also , this dissolving of the heavens and elements with fire , is a concomitant of christ his comming to the last judgement , as is expressely intimated . thes . . . . as for the words whereupon alone they ground their argument , the new earth wherein dwells righteousnesse . as if these words could not be true after the last judgement : no righteous man then dwelling upon the earth . if they had looked upon the originall , they would have seene the weakenesse of their collection ; for the words runne thus , we in whom righteousnesse dwells , looke for new heavens and a new earth ; the habitation of righteousnesse referring neither to the heavens not to the earth , but to the godly and righteous persons who did waite for the performance of the promise of new heavens and a new earth , as our late annotations doe observe ; and though you would reade them according to our english translation , yet that inhabitation needes not referre to the earth , but to the heavens onely , as junius well observes . for it is not in qua terra , but in quibus coelis ; and our brethren if they beleeve mr. archer , must referre the pronoune not to both the substantives , but onely to the one ; for he teaches that during the thousand yeares no righteous soule inhabites the heaven : and thereafter , that no righteous soule does inhabit either the earth or the heavens wherein now the soules of the godly are , all these being turned into hell , the habitation of unrighteous men and divells . mr. burrows seventh place , isa . . . and they shall build houses and inhabit them , and they shall plant vinyeards and eate the fruit of them . and ver . . behold , i create new heavens and a new earth , &c. hence concluding not onely a new heaven and a new earth for the millenary reigne , but a planting of vinyeards , a building of houses ; which cannot be after the day of judgement . ans . first , master burrowes referres this place to the former passage of peter ; if therefore peters new heavens and new earth must be understood of the life to come ; isaiahs new heavens and new earth must be understood of the same . secondly , it s very new and harsh divinity to say that after the heavens have passed away with a noyse , and the earth with all the workes thereof are burnt up , that men shall plant vineyards , and build houses upon the new earth ; therefore master burrows notwithstanding his argument and reference of isaiah to peter , seemes in that same place to retract and acknowledge that the new heavens and the new earth must be expounded by a metaphor , and import no more then the doing of so glorious things by god for the church , in the latter days , as shall manifest his glorious and creating power , as if he did make new heavens and a new earth . this is farre from the burning of the heavens and earth that now are . it is no more then what the apostle peter brings from the prophet joel : acts. . . and i will shew wonders in heaven above , and signes in the earth beneath , bloud and fi●● , and vapour of smoake ; the sunne shall be turned into darknesse and the moone into bloud . all which peter makes to be performed upon the day of the pentecost . it is no more then that of haggay . . yet once it is a little while and i will shake the heavens and the earth , and the sea , and all the dry land ; which the apostle heb. . , . makes to be performed at the first comming of christ . thirdly , that the matter of this . chap. of isai . v. . is to be referred to christs first comming , and the apostles first pr●●ching unto the gentiles , is cleare by comparing the first verse of this chap. i am found of them that sought me not , with the verse of the tenth to the romanes ; but isaiah was very bold , and sayth , i was found &c. fourthly , to expound the prophets in this fashion ▪ were to stumble the jewes , and to give them too great an excuse for their long misbeliefe , and too pregnant arguments for to delay their fayth while the messias come to performe these promises upon earth , till their ierusalem were againe builded , and they put in possession of the holy land , to build their houses and plant their uineyeards therein ; till they saw themselves put in possession of their present carnall & legall hopes . yea , t. g. his literall exposition of this and the like places goes beyond the most of the iewish apprehensions . for that any of the talmudists do dreame that at the comming of the messias , the lyon shall eate straw , that the leoparde and the lambe , the serpent and the sucking childe shall be brought to such a sympathy of natures , as not to have the least disposition to doe harme the one to the other ; that the life of men shall be so much at that time prolonged , as one of an hundred yeares must be taken but for an infant and a childe ; that the most fabulous of the rabbins have gone thus farre in a litterall beleefe , i doe not know . his eight place , is heb. . , . for unto the angells he hath not put in subjection the world to come ; but now we see not yet all things put under him ; whence he inferres that christ in the world to come , is to reigne and to have all things put under his feet , which is not now performed , the apostle saying expressely that now all things are not put under him ; neither is this true in the life to come ; for then the kingdome of christ is rendred up to the father . ans . the world to come is not that imaginary world of the yeares , whereof the scripture speaks no thing ; but the dayes of the gospell of which the apostle is there speaking , and shewing that the gospell was administred not by angells as the law had beene upon mount sinai , but by the sonne of god himselfe : this new world under the gospell did differ more from the old world under the law , then the earth in the dayes of noah and the patriarchs after the floud , from the earth in the dayes of noah before the floud . this new world of the gospell began with christs first comming in the flesh ; it was demonstrated in his resurrection , when all power in heaven and in earth was given to him . math. . . when all the angells of god did worshippe him . heb. , . when he was set farre above all principalities and powers . ephes . . . the accomplishment of this world is not till the last day , when death , hell , and satan , which yet are not made christs footstoole , shall fully be conquered . these things cannot be verified of the thousand yeares . for according to mr. burrowes grounds , before they begin , many things are annihilated , and so not made subject ; the heavens and elements are melted with fervent heate ; the earth and the workes thereof are burnt up with fire ; also , during these thousand yeares , christs chiefe enemies are not fully subdued ; death still hath dominion over men ; the devill is onely bound , but yet alive , and not cast into the lake . his ninth place , is ier. . . . they shall say no more the arke of the covenant of the lord , neither shall it come to minde , neither shall they remember it ; at that time they shall call jerusalem the throne of the lord , and all the nations shall be gathered unto it , neither shall they walke any more after the imagination of their evill heart . hence , he inferres , a state of the church in the last dayes so glorious , that all things by-past shall be forgot ; that judah and israel shall returne from their captivity to jerusalem ; that all nations shall joyne with them ; that they shall no more walke after their old sinnes ; that jerusalem which before times was at best but the footstoole of god , shall then become a throne of glory . answer . there is no word here of christs abode upon earth for a thousand yeares . secondly , the old things that are to be forgotten , are expressed to be the ceremonies of the law , but no ordinance of the gospell . the prophet names the arke and the temple which by christs first comming were removed . thirdly , the walking of iudah and israel together , and the nations joyning with them , imports no more but the calling of iewes and gentiles by the gospell to the christian church the heavenly ierusalem : the same which the prophet esay hath in his second chap. vers . . the establishing ( in the last dayes ) of the house of god on the top of the mountaines ; the flowing of all nations thereto ; for out of sion shall goe forth a law , and the word of the lord from ierusalem ; these last dayes , were the dayes of the apostles , when they from sion and ierusalem did blow the trumpet of the gospell to all the nations ▪ these were the times whereof ieremy in the verse of the chapter in hand doth speake . i will give you pastors according to my heart , which shall feede you with knowledge and understanding . the pastors there promised , were christ and his apostles ; better pastors then these god never sent , neither ever shall send to his church . fourthly , walking after gods owne heart , doth not import a freedome from all sinne ; but onely a state of grace , wherein according to the new covenant , god gives his people a newheart , and writes his lawes upon the same . fifthly , that whereupon the greatest weight of the argument is laid , seemes to be a very groundlesse conceit , that ierusalem , when it is a throne of glory , must be the old ierusalem builded againe ; as if ierusalem under the law , and ierusalem in the dayes of the gospell ( the church in the new testament , the mother of us all ) were but the footestoole of god. this is a doctrine expresly against scripture ; for in divers places , ierusalem , sion , and the arke , even in the old testament , are called not onely the footstoole , but the throne of god ier. . . doe not abhorre us for thy names sake ; doe not disgrace the throne of thy glory . also chap. . . a glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary . the lord did as it were sit upon the mercy seate as upon a chaire of state , under the canopy of the wings of the cherubins within the sanctuary the chamber of his most majestuous presence . ierusalem under the new testament , is called not onely the throne of god , but his footstoole , esay . . to beautifie the place of my sanctuary , and i will make the place of my feete glorious . this place our brethren expound of the sanctuary during the time of the thousand yeares . however , it is cleare it must be expounded of the church in the same times whereof ieremiah speakes in his third chapter whence the argument in hand is brought . the tenth place is dan. . and in the dayes of these kings shall the god of heaven set up a kingdome which shall never be destroyed , and it shall stand for ever . whence , is inferred an everlasting kingdome of christ , & a joy of ierusalem unchangeable to any sorrow . answer . christs everlasting kingdome , is meerely spirituall and heavenly . that dominion which the father gave to the son at his incarnation , luke . . , . the lord shall give unto him the throne of his father david , and he shall raigne over the house of iacob for ever . this kingdome for the matter of it , is truely everlasting , being the glory which christ and his saints injoy for ever in the heavens ; albeit for the manner of the administration thereof it be rendred up by the sonne to the father , when the worke of mediation is perfected , and all enemies are fully destroyed . to deny the beginning of christs kingdome over his church , unto the thousand yeares , is many wayes absurd ; and , because of the eternall indurance of his dominion and glory in the heavens , to make the church on earth in which he raignes , to be voide of all tribulation , of all changes , to have a perpetuall day without any darkenesse , is contrary to the scriptures alleadged in the former arguments . in the eleventh place , he alledgeth revel . . . and he was cloathed with a vesture dipped in blood . and ezek. . and there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of israel , nor any grieving them of all that are round about them . whence , they inferre that in the beginning of the thousand yeares , christ with his owne hands shall kill so many of the wicked , that his garments shall be dipped in blood , and not one of them left to trouble the church . answer . it is a very strange conception to make the lord jesus embrue his holy hands in the blood of so many men . that these battells are not fought with the hands of christ , in a literall way , will appeare by a paralell place , isay . . who is this that commeth from edom , with died garments from bozra ? unto christ here are ascribed garments died in blood , because of the slaughter of the edomites , a little after the babylonish captivity , at which time christ had neither a body nor a garment in propriety of speech . as these battells were fought by christ , not in his owne person nor upon the earth ; so neither these battells of the revel-which so much the lesse can be literally expounded , as in the and verses of that chapter , the instrument whereby christ is said to fight these battells , is not any sword in his hand , but the two-edged sword of his mouth ; and the souldiers whom he leads out to these battells are not armed with sword and speare , but ride upon white horses , cloathed in fine linnen white and cleane . as for that of ezechiel , if you consult either with the originall , or the best interpreters , it must be expounded first and principally , if not solely of the towne of sidon which the lord was to destroy , that it might no more be a thorne in the side of israel . from this , to inferre the purging of the christian church of all other enemies in this life , and that by killing of them all as cursed canaanites : were a dangerous conclusion , farre from the justice and innocence of christians in all by-gone times , the beleefe whereof would quickly renew unto us the horrible tragedies of the anabaptists . in the twelfth place , he cites rev. . , . and the city had no need of the sun , neither of the moone to shine in it ; and the kings of the earth doe bring their glory and honour unto it . also chap. . ver . , , . and he shewed me a pure river of the water of life , &c. ans . the divines who apply these two chapters to the condition of the church upon earth after the calling of the jewes , take the most of the passages in a figurative and allegoricall sence . to expound them literally and properly , of any church on earth , the text will not permit . shall ever the church on earth be so free of sorrow and death , as not to sorrow for sinne , or to have none of its members mortall ? shall they so immediately see the face of god , as the use of temples , tabernacles , or any ordinance , shall be needelesse ? shall ever man upon earth , be without the sunne and the moone ? these things are true in a proper sence , onely of the saints of heaven . what is here alleadged to the contrary , that the kings of the earth bring not their riches and honours to the heavens ; we say , it is but a part of the allegorie , to expresse under that similitude the glory & wealth of the life to come ; as in the same place , the spirit of god expresses the happinesse of heaven by the metaphors of gold and pretious stones , of rivers and fountaines , of trees and fruits . to expound all these in a literall sence , of any church either in earth or heaven , were incommodious ; except our brethren would put us upon more fancies then any of them yet have spoke of . in the last place , they cite for the gifts of the saints , zach. . . he that is feeble among them , in that day , shall be like david ; and the house of david shall be as god : and for the honour of the saints that in the thousand yeares they shall be taken into private familiarity by princes and great men , rev. . . and they heard a great voyce from heaven saying unto them , come up hither ; and they ascended up to heaven in a cloud , and their enemies beheld them . ans . the gifts meant by zachary , are such as are powred upon all the saints of the new testament with the spirit of grace and supplication , which makes the least of the kingdome of heaven to be like unto david , to elijah , and greater then john the baptist , as christ speakes . but what is this unto the imaginary glory of the chiliasticke kingdome ? the honour they speake of , cannot be fetched out of that eleventh of the revel . for who but themselves will expound heaven in that place , of the thrones of kings , of the privie chambers of princes and great men ? the calling up of the two witnesses to heaven , by none else but them , will be taken for the saints familiarity with great states-men : and according to their own tenets , in the chiliasticke kingdome there is no such degrees of honour , as in this world . for there christ in his owne person is king , and all the saints doe shine at least as the firmament ; and the glory of these saints is greatest whose grace is most eminent . familiarity with princes and worldly states-men , is then for no purpose . beside , the ascention of the two witnesses to the heavens , is before the fall of the tenth part of rome , and so before the thousand yeares beginne . there be yet some more places cited by master burrowes and others for their tenet ; but these which we have answered , are the principall : and if they be cleared , there is no difficulty in the rest . besides scriptures , master burrowes takes from the glimpse of t. g. sundry testimonies of antiquity ; all which , t. g. does borrow from alstedius . to the which i answer , that no protestants build their fayth upon humane testimonies ; and , no men in the world make so small account of antiquity as our brethren . it is marvellous if in earnest they should encourage themselves in their tenet by such testimonies of the fathers , as by the catholick consent of all posterior antiquity and the unanimous profession both of protestants and papists this day , are censured of error . who pleases to know the minde of antiquity in this subject , let him consult especially with augustin de civitate dei . booke . almost through the whole ; and the commentaries of vives , and coqueus thereupon . if humane authorities either ancient or moderne , could give our brethren any satisfaction in this question , it were easie to present them with great store thereof . thus farre had i proceeded when by my superiours i was called away from these studies to an other imployment , so what i intended to have spoken to the anabaptists , the antinomians , the erastians , and especially to the remainder of the popish and prelaticall malignants i must remit it to another season . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e isa . . ● mic. . . ioel . ● ▪ notes for div a -e the first and chief mean to extinguish the flames of our war , is the waters of the heart poured out in prayers to god. lam. . . reformation after mourning , is the second step to a solid peace . prov. . . psal . . king. . . the corruption of the church is the fountain of our present misery . the state cannot be 〈◊〉 til the church be s●●● reformed . every man must help what he can to recover the languishing church from her desperate disease . the offer of a strange and easie remedy of a ●ooking-glass the malignity of errour . tim. . . ● pet. . , , , the authors intention is to set down in a table for the clear view of all ▪ the errors which trouble us . and that with justice & lo●● towards all persons . onely forth is r●ga●n●ng to the truth . the partition of the ensuing ●reatise . episcopacy was the mother of all our present sects . presbytery will be their grave . the presbyteriall way of proceeding . what england 〈◊〉 may expect from presbyteries and synods . notes for div a -e satan is the great enemy of the churches reformation . his chief instruments always have been professed friends to religion . reformation at the beginning did run with an impetuous current . what was its first stop . the fountain of protestant d●scord . the unhappy principle of the lut●eranes . and the more unhappy principle of the anabaptists . somewhat of both these ways was entertained in england . the original of the english ceremonies and episcopacy . the original of the separatists . brownism is a daughter of anabaptism . bolton , the first known separatist in england , hanged himself . brown , the second l●ader of that way , ●ecanted his schism , and to his death was a very scandalous person . the humour of barrow the third master of this sect. the strange carriage of johnson and ainsworth , the next two leaders of the brownists . the horrible ways of smi●● their sixth master . the fearful end of smith his wandrings . a remarkable vengeance upon an erring spirit . robinson the last grave and learned doctor of the brownists , did in the end undermine his party . robinson the author of independency . notes for div a -e they hold that all churches in the world but their own , are so polluted , that they must be separate from . their injurious slanders of the church of england . yet sometimes they say that communion may be kept therewith both in preaching and prayer . their like dealing with all the other reformed . their st●ing of 〈◊〉 chu● 〈…〉 the matter of a church they make to be real saints onely . their unreasonable stricknesse in this one point , is the great cause of their schism . the least sin of any member of a church defended , is a just cause of separation . they place the form of their church in an expresse covenant . seven may make a perfect church , yea , two or three . the erecting of a church requireth , neither the magistrates , nor ministers assistance . they put all church power in a handful of people , without any pastor . the election , ordination , deposition , and excommunication of the minister , belongs to the flock , and to it alone . every man of the congregation may preach and publikely rebuke , not onely the pastor , but the whole flock , yea and s●parate from it . some of them give the power of the sacraments also to pri●ate persons . the solemnizing of marriage they give to parents , but divorces they commit to the parties themselves . they make every congregation independent , and of soveraign authority . their judgement of synods . their high conceit of their own way , and injurious , depressing of all others . churches , bells , pulpits , tithes , glebes , manses , and all set maintenance of ministers , are unlawful . not so much as a church-yard must be kept up for burial , but all must bury in the fields . they drive the abolishing of church-rents , so high as to make all goods common . the days of the we●k , the moneths , the yeer of god , they will not name . no pulpits , no hour-gl●sses , no churches , no gowns . all set prayer , even the lords prayer , and all psalms in meeter , yea in prose , if used as praises , are unlawful . their opinion of preaching & sacraments . their stra●ge way of celebrating the lords supper . they reject catechisms , the apostles creed , and all reading of scripture without exposition . after preaching , they prophesie . then comes the conference . brown for liberty of conscience . his followers against it their carriage towards the magistrate . they spoil kings and parliaments of their legislative power . they obliege the magistrate to kill all idolaters . but to sp●re all theeves . they wil have the universities destroyed . secular authors and learning must be abolished . preachers must studie no book but the scriptures . notes for div a -e independency the smallest of all the sects of the time for number , but greatest for worth of its followers . the division of the following matter . independents , the separatist● off-spring . when the fire of brownism was dying out in holland , a little of its ashes carried to new england , broke out there into a lasting flame . by what means these ashes were kindled . master cotton at first a great opposite to that way . master cotton with little ado , became the great patron of that errour . master cotton the misleader of master goodwin and others . master cotton often deceived , hath given his patrociny to divers grosse errours . why god permits great men to fall in evident errours . his prelatical arminian and montanistick tenents . his antinomy and familism . independency large , as unhappy as brownism . wherefore so much of the independent way lies yet in darknesse . the fruits of independency in new england . . it put thousands of christians in the condition of pagans . . it marrs the conversion of pagans to the christian religion . . it did bring forth the foulest heresies that ever yet were heard of in any protestant church . a few examples of the many abominable heresies of the new-english independents . the greatest part of th●ir chief churches were infected with these errours . th● pi●●ty of these hereticks seem●d to be singular . their malice against all who opposed them , was singular , especially against all their orthodox ministers , and magistrates . their errours in opinion did draw on such seditious practises , as did well neer overturn both their church and state. their proud obstinacy against all admonitions was marvellous . in the midst of their profession of eminent piety , the profanity of many of them was great . notwithstanding all this , we desire from our heart , to honour and imitate all and every degree of truth or piety , which did ever appear in any new-english christian . notes for div a -e independency no fruitful tree in holland . master peter● the first planter of that weed at roterdam . their ministers , master bridge , master simpson and master ward , renounced their english ordination , and as meer private men took new ordination from the people . incontinent they did fall into shameful divisions and subdivisions . the people without any just cause deposed their minister . the commissioners from arnhem durst not come neer the bottom of the businesse . the schisms at roterdam were more irreconcileable then those at amsterdam . anabaptism is like to spoil that church . they of the church of arnhem admire and praise themselves above all measure . the easinesse of their banishment and afflictions . the new light at arnhem broke out into a number of strange errours . first , grosse chiliasm ▪ secondly , the grossest blasphemy of the libertines that god is the author of the very sinfulnesse of sin . thirdly , the fancy of the enthusiasts in knowing god as god , abstracted from scripture , from christ , from grace , and from all his attributes . fourthly , the old popish ceremonies of extreme unction , and the holy kisse of peace . fifthly , the discharging of the psalms , the appointing of a singing prophet to chant the songs made by himself , in the silence of all others . sixthly , the mortality of the soul . seventhly , the conveniency for ministers to preach covered , and celebrate the sacraments discovered : but for the people to hear discovered , and to participate the sacraments covered . their publike contentions were shameful . notes for div a -e the work of the prime independents of new england , arnheim , and roterdam , these five yeers at london . they did hinder with all their power , so long as they were able , the calling of the assembly . when it was called , they retarded its proceedings ▪ that the churches of england and ireland lie so long in confuon , neither papists , nor prelates , nor malignants have been the cause . but the independents working according to their principles . the great mischief of that anarchy wherin they have kept the churches of england and ireland for so long a time . independency is the mother of more hereresies and schisms at london , then amsterdam ever knew . independency at london doth not onely bring forth , but nourish and patronize heresies and schisms , contrary to its custom either in new-england or amsterdam . how hazardous it may prove to the state of england . notes for div a -e why it is hard to set downe the independents positions . they have declined to declare their tenets , more then has ever been the custome of any orthodox divines . when they shal bee pleased to declare themselves to the full , their principle of change will hinder thē to assure us that any thing is their settled , and firm tenet wherein they will bee constant . the chief tenets which hitherto they have given out , and not yet recal●ed , are these following . they reject the name of independents unreasonably , and for their own disadvantage . when it is laid aside , the more infamous name of brownists and separatists wil justly fall upon them . they avow a semi-separation , but a sesqui-separation will bee proved upon them . the independents doe separate from all the reformed churches upon farre worse grounds then the brownists were wont to separate . their acknowledgment of the reformed for true churches doth not diminish , but encrease their shisme . they refuse all church communion and membership in all the reformed churches , they preach and pray in them as they would doe among p●gans , only as g●ft●d men to gather new churches . about the matter of the church and qualification of members , they are large , as strict as the brownists , admitting none but who convinces the whole congregation of their reall regeneration . besides true grace they require a sutablenesse of spirit . but in this they are laxer then the brownists , that they can take in without scruple anabaptists , antinomians , & others , who both in life & doctrine have evident blots , if so they bee zealous and serviceable for their way . about the forme of the church , a church covenant they are more punctuall then the brownists . they take the power of gathering and erecting of churches both from magistrates and ministers placing it only in the hands of a few private christians , who are willing to make among themselves a church covenant . this power of erecting themselves into a compleat and perfect church they give to any seven persons , neither admit they more into a church then can altogether in one place commodiously administer the sacraments & discipline . the independents will have all the standing churches in england dissolved , and all their ministers to become meerly private men , and any three persons of their way to bee a full church . vnto this church of seven persons they give all and the whole church power and that independently . vnto this congregationall church alone they give the full power of election and ordination , of deposition and excommunication even of all their officers , and of the finall determination of all ecclesiastick causes . the difference of iohnson and ainsworth about the power of the people and presbytery distinct one from the other , is not yet composed among the independents . the common doctrine of new england is ainsworths tenet , that the people a●one have all the power , & may excommunicate when there is cause all their officers . mr cotton the other year did fall much from them and himselfe towards iohnson , that the whole power of authority is only in the officers , and the people have no●hing but the power of liberty to concurre ; that the officers can doe nothing without the people , nor the people any thing but by the officers . yet that both officers & people or any one of them have power to separate themselvs from all the rest when they find cause . the london independents give more power of ecclesiastick iurisdiction then the brownists unto women . some of them permit private men to celebrate the sacraments . brownists and independents do perfectly agree in the point of independency . if a corrupt or negligent presbytery doe not censure their own members , all the assemblies in the world may not attempt to censure any of them , though most apparently they did corrupt a whole nation with the grossest heresies or most scandalous vices . the point of independency is either the root or the fruit of many errors . to temper the crudity of this tenet , they adde to it three moderating positions , but for little purpose . they grant the being of synods , but not of classicall presbyteries . their synods are meerely brownisticall without all iurisdiction , wherein every one of the people may vote ; also meerely elective and only occasionall . the sentence of non-communion , is mr cottons invention to supply that defect which themselves make in the ordinances of god. it puts in the hand of every man a power to sentence all the churches of the world . it carries to the highest degree of separation . their supply of the defects of independency by the power o● the magistrate , was a remedy which they learned from the brownists , but now they have cast it aside , denying to the magistrate all power in matters of religion . the independents doe advance their fancies to as high a pitch of glory as the brownists . they are the brownists scholars in many more things beside the constitution and government of the church . they give to the magistrate the celebration of marriage . mr milton permits any man to put away his wife upon his meer pleasure , without fault and without the cognisance of any iudge . mr gorting teaches the wife to put away her husband , if he will not follow her in any new church way which she is pleased to embrace . they are against all determinations of the circumstances of worship , and therfore all church directories are against their stomacks . the common names of the dayes of the week , the months of the year , of many churches and cities of the land , are as unlawfull to them as to the brownists . all tithes and set maintenance of ministers they cry down ; but a voluntary contribution for the maintenance of all their officers , they presse to a high proportion , with the evident prejudice of the poore . in their solemn worship oft times they make one to pray , another to preach , a third to prophesie , a fourth to direct the psalm , and another to bless the people . they make it a divine institution , without any word of preface , to begin the publike worship with solemne prayer for the king and church . after the pastors prayer the doctor reads and expounds . in preaching they will bee free to take a text or not , as they find it expedient . after sermon any of the people whom they think able , are permitted to prophesie . all are permitted to propound in the face of the congregation what questions upon the sermon they think meet . about the psalms they have divers strange conceits ; but the speciall is their new ordinance of a singing prophet , who in place of the psalms singeth hymnes of his own making in the midst of the silent congregation . they grant the lawfulnesse of read prayer in divers cases . they will have none to be baptized , but the children of their owne members ; so at one dash they put all england except a very few of their way , into the state of pagans turning them all out of the christian church , denying to them sacraments , discipline , church-officers , and all that they would deny to the pagans of america . they open a door to anabaptism by farther positions . . they require in all to bee baptised a real holiness above a foederall , which in no infant with any certainty can be found . . they esteem none for their baptism and christian education a member of their church , till they have entred themselvs in their church covenant . . they call none of their members to any account before their presbytery for obstinate rejecting of paedo-baptism , although the brownists doe excommunicate for that sinne . they participate with none of the reformed churches in the lords supper , yet they scruple not to communicate with brownists and anabaptists . their way of celebrating the lords supper is more dead and comfortlesse then any where else . they have no catechising , no preparation , nor thanksgiving sermōs , ordinarily they speak no word of the sacrament in their sermons and prayers either before or after . they have only a little discourse & short prayer in the consecration of both the elements ; there after in the action nothing but dumb silence ▪ no exhortation , no reading , no psalme . they require none of their members . to come out of their pewes to the table . and they acknowledge no more use of a table then the brownists at amsterdam who have none at all . they teach the expediency of covering the head at the lords table . they are as much for the popular government as the brownists . all discipline must be executed in the presence and with the consent of the whole people , & all must passe by the expresse suffrage of every one . dissenters not only lose their right of suffrage for the time , but are subjected to censure if they continue in their dissent . they are much for private meetings , for it is in them that they usually frame the members of other mens congregations into their new mould , but the brownists and they of new-england having felt the bitter fruits of such meetings , have relinquished , if not discharged them . they flatter the magistrate and slander the reformed churches without cause . some of them are for the abolition of all magistracy . all of them are for casting out and keeping out of the christian church all princes , all members of parliament , all magistrates of the counties & burroughes that now are , and that ever have been and are ever like to be hereafter , except a very few . these few magistrates whom they would admit , have no security , but by the errour or malice of a few , to be quickly cast out of the church without any possibility of remedy . when they have put all out of the places of magistracy , yea out of all civill courts who are not of their mind , the greatest magistrates they admit of , bee they kings or parliaments , they subject them all to the free-wil of the promiscuous multitude . when magistrates wil not follow their new erro●●s they have bin very ready to make insurrections to the great hazard of the whole state. many of them deny to the magistrate any power at all in the matters of religion . their principles do spoile princes and parliaments of their whole ●egislative power ; they abolish all humane lawes that are made , and hinder any more to be made . the civill lawes which mr cotton permits men to make , bind , no man any further then his own minde is led by the reason of the law to obedience . they put the yoak of the judiciall law of moses on the neck of the magistrate . they give to their ministers a power to sit in civill courts & to voyce in the election of the magistrats , and to draw from scripture civill lawes for the government of the state. they offer ●o perswade the magistrate contradictory principles , according to their own interest . in new england they perswade the magistrats to kill all idolaters and hereticks , even whole cities , men , women , and children . but here they deny the magistrate all power to lay the least restraint upon the g●ossest idolaters , apostats , blasphemers , seducers or the greatest enemies of religion . no great appearance of their respect to secular learning and schools . independency much more dangerous then browni● notes for div a -e the independents prime principles . their tenet about the qualification of members , is the great cause of their separating from all the reformed churches though they doe dessemble it . in this they goe beyond the brownists . the true state of the question is whether it be necessary to separate from a church , wherein wee get no satisfaction of the true grace of every member at their first admission . for the negative , we reason first from the practice of moses & the prophets , who did never offer to separate for any such reason . the causes of a just separation were smaller under the law , nor under the gospel . the weaknesse of their reply . our second reason , is from the example of christ and his apostles , who did not separate for any such causes . the third reason ; it is impossible to find true grace in every member of any visible church that ever was or shall be in the world . the fourth , this satisfaction in the true grace of all to be admitted , is builded on foure errours , first that the power of ecclesiastick iurisdiction is in the hand of every one of the people . secondly , that one man may attaine to the certain knowledge of the true grace in the heart of another . thirdly , that it is a duty of every member of a church to seek and finde satisfaction in the true grace of all his fellow-members . fourthly , that all the reformed churches must once bee dissolved and unchurched , that they may bee reformed according to the new mould of the independents . the fifth argument . their tenet is followed with divers absurdities . as first , it is necessary to separate from all churches that are this day in the world , except it be from these of the independents . secondly , it was necessary to separate from all churches that ever have been . thirdly , there can be no rest for any till they turne seekers , and leave all societies that are called churches . cottons reasons to the contrary are answered . his first reason put in form . all the parts of it are vitious ▪ the conclusion proves not the question . it stands upon a chief ground of anabaptism , and presupposes the nullity of all the reformed churches . the major is many wayes vitious . but the minor is the most faulty part of the argument . the proofes of the minor are answered . the first . the second . the third and maine proof of the minor . this driveth to universall grace and apostacy of the saints . yea , to socinianisme and further . his second argument . the conclusion is faulty . the minor is false . it s proofe is unsufficient . his third argument . p●eters confession much mis-applyed . the guest without the wedding-garment more mis-appl●ed . the parable of the tares is thrown against its principall scope . his fourth argument , that all who cannot demonstrate the truth of their regeneration , deny the power of godlinesse , is not true . his fifth , that no hypocrite is to be admitted a member of a church , is a very rash argument . his sixth , from the roughnesse of the stones of solomons temple , is a wanton reason his seventh , from the porters exclusion of uncleane persons from the temple , has no strength . his eight , that iohn the bapt●st excluded the pharisees and people from his baptism , is expresly against the text. his ninth , that philip required the eunuchs confession before baptisme , infers not the conclusion . all his nine or twelve reasons p●t in one will be too weak to beare up the weight of his most heavy conclusion . notes for div a -e the state of the question . the first authors of this question . the independents difference among themselves here anent . that none but ministers may ordinarily prophecy , wee prove , it first by christs joyning together the power of baptism and the power of preaching . secondly , these that preach , must be sent to that work . thirdly , every ordinary preacher labo●rs in the word and doctrine . fourthly , none out of office have the gift of preaching ▪ for all who have that gi●t are either apostl●s , evangel●sts , prophets , pastors , or doctors , and all these are officers . fifthly , no man out of office might sacrifice . sixthly , all who have from god the gift of preaching are obliged to lay aside all other occupations and attend that work alone . seventhly , the apostles appointed none to preach but elders . eighthly , the preaching of men out of office is a means of confusion and errour . the contrary arguments which mr cotton in his catechism and answer to the questions , borrows from robinson , are ; first , in the church of corinth men out of office did prophecie . ans . these men were officers or their preaching was extraordinary . secondly , iehoshaphat and his princes did preach ; answ . the kings exhorting of the levites to doe their duty and the princes c●untenancing of them therein was not properly preaching . thirdly , w●e must not despise prophecy . ans . the apostle speaks of the preaching of men in office . fourthly , the sons of the prophets did preach . answ . their designation to be prophets gave them right to initiall and preparatory exercises towards that office . fifthly , moses wished all the people to bee prophets . ans . but not without gods calling to that offi●e . sixthly , the apostles before the resurrection did preach . ans . at that time they were true apostles and did baptise . seventhly , paul and barnabas were invited to exhort . ans . they were men in office . eighthly , the scribes and pharisees did preach . answ . they were officers and sate in moses chaire notes for div a -e what is meant by ecclesiastick jurisdiction . the state of the question wont to be cleare , the reformed churches putting the power and exercise of jurisdiction in the hand of the presbytery alone ; the brownists , & independents in the hand of the people onely ; but mr. cotton & his followers the other yeare have perplexed the question with their many schole distinctions . if they put the power of jurisdiction onely in a church organized and presbyterated , they fall from much of the brownists , and their own , both doctrine and practise . their last and best beloved invention of the power of authority , and power of liberty , is for no purpose but to involve the authors in new difficulties . as they wont to make their smallest congregations independent & uncensurable for any crime , so now by this distinction they divide all their congregations in two parts , and make every one of these parts independent also , and uncensurable for any imaginable sinne . for the negative , that the people have no power of jurisdiction , we reason : first , the officers alone are governors , and the people are to be governed . . the people have not the keys of heaven to bind and loose . . the people are not the eyes , & eares in in christs body ; for so , all the body should be eyes and eares . . the people have not any promise of gifts sufficient for government . . the popular government bringeth in confusion making the feete above the head . . the people have not the power of ordination . they have no commission to send pastours to themselves , to impose hands to examine their pastours , to pray publickly and exhort . . this power in the people would disable them in their callings . . this power of the people would bring in morellius democracy and anarchy in the church . . this power of the people will draw upon them the power of the word and sacrament . mr cottons contrary arguments answered . first , christ gave to peter the keys of h●aven as to a beleever : ans . not so , but as to an apostle and elder of the church . . till the church replies that the people have power of excommunication . anser , the church here to be told is the presbytery , and not the people , according to our brethrens own grounds . . the people of corinth did judge and excommunicate the incestuous man ▪ answer , tbe text will prove no such matter . . the people of colosse might censure archippus their minister . answer . there is no word in this text of the peoples censure . . the whole church of pergamus is rebuked for not censuring the hereticks . answer , the power of censure was in the angells , but the whole church might be faulty in not incouraging the angels to doe their duty . . the twenty foure elders sit on thrones with crownes on their heads . answer , this will not prove a regall power of judging in every one of the people . . the galatians must stand fast to their liberty . anser , by liberty hereinothing lesse is understood then a power of presence and concurrence in judgement without all power of authority . . the whole congregation of israel had power to punish malefactors . answer . what the people under the law did in the state , is not a warrant for the people under the gospell to doe the same in the church . . the people elects their officers . ergo. they may depose and excommunicate them . answer . election is no act of power , or of jurisdiction . . the people must be present and consent to every act of judgement . answer , it is not so , and if it were , yet it inferres not their power of jurisdiction . notes for div a -e god is the author of the union and dependencie of particular churches . from them morellius and grotius learned the tenet . laying aside all prejudice we will reason the matter . the state of the question cleared . that single congregations are not independent is proved ; first , from the tim . . because they have not the right of ordination . ordination belongs to the presbytery . no congregation is a presbytery . no congretion hath within it selfe necessarily a presbytery . no single congregation ought to have within it selfe pauls presbytery . onely pastors lay hands on pastors . the second argument from the apostolicke churches which exercised full jurisdiction , the chiefe whereof , if not all , were presbyteriall and not parochiall . such was the church at jerusalem . how the church commeth together . the church of samaria also was presbyteriall . so that of rome . and of corinth . and of ephesus . also of antioch and the rest . our third argument from the subordination of the church of antioch to the synod at jerusalem , act. . answer to the replies . the meeting of jerusalem was a true synod . it doth not onely advise but command . the decrees of that synod at their first making had onely ecclesiastick authority . our fourth argument from the subordination of fewer to moe , appointed by christ , matth. . christs subordination is to be extended to the utmost bounds of the church universall . our fifth argument from the evill consequents , which reason and experience demonstrate to follow independency necessarily and naturally . neither the duties of charity , nor the authority of the magistrate can remedy these evills . our last argument , independency is contrary to all the discipline that ever was knowne in christendome before the anabap●ists . the first objection or argument for independency from matth. . the second objection is taken from the practise of the corinthians , excommunicating the incestuous man. the third objection from the example of the seven churches of asia . their fourth objection from the practise of the church of thessalonica and colosse . their fifth objection from the episcopall tyranny of the presbyterie . their sixt objection from the congregations right to elect their pastor . their seventh objection from pluralitie of cures cast upon one pastor . their eight objection from christs immediate government of his church . notes for div a -e the originall and progresse of chiliasme . the minde of the independent chiliasts . our first reason against the chiliasts is , that christ from his ascention to the last judgement abides in the heaven . our second reason is builded on christs sitting at the right hand of god till the day of judgement . our third reason is grounded on the resurrection of the dead ; the godly and ungodly doe all rise together at the last day . our fourth reason is builded on christs kingdome which is spirituall and not earthly . our fift reason is taken from the nature of the church . which ever on earth is mixt of good and evill . and subject to crosses . having neede of ordinances because of her sinfull infirmities . a sixt reason from the secresie of the time of christs comming . a seventh , from the heavenly and eternall reward of the martyrs . an eight reason , the restoration of an earthly jerusalem brings backe the abolisht figures of the lgw. a ninth , antichrist is not abolisht till the day of judgement . the chiliasts first reason is from re●●l . . answer our new chiliasts are inventors of a new heaven and of a new h●ll . their second reason from daniel . we answer their third argument . answer . their fourth place . answer . their fifth place . answer . their sixth place . answer . their seventh place . answer . their eight place . answer . the ninth place . answer . their tenth place . answer . their eleventh place . answer . the twelfth place . answer . their last place . answer . a letter of many ministers in old england requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions written anno dom. : together with their answer thereunto returned, anno : and the reply made unto the said answer and sent over unto them, anno / by simeon ash, and william rathband. ashe, simeon, d. . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing l a estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; :e , no or : ) a letter of many ministers in old england requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions written anno dom. : together with their answer thereunto returned, anno : and the reply made unto the said answer and sent over unto them, anno / by simeon ash, and william rathband. ashe, simeon, d. . rathband, william, d. . [ ], [i.e. ] p. printed for thomas vnderhill ..., london : . errata: p. [ ]. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library and harvard university libraries. marginal notes. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church polity -- early works to . congregational churches -- doctrines. new england -- church history -- th century. great britain -- church history -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter of many ministers in old england , requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions . written anno dom. . together with their answer thereunto returned , anno . and the reply made unto the said answer , and sent over unto them , anno . now published ( by occasion mentioned in the epistle to the reader , following in the next page , ) upon the desire of many godly and faithfull ministers in and about the city of london , who love and seeke the truth . by simeon ash , and william rathband . thes . . . prove all things ; hold fast that which is good . london , printed for thomas vnderhill , at the signe of the bible in great woodstreet . . i have diligently perused this reply to the answer , of the ministers of new-england , to the nine positions which i have approved , and judge very necessarie , and seasonable to bee printed , and published , iuly the fifth , . iames cranford rector of christophers london . errata . page . marg. read romae . p. line r. society . p . l. . r. of all true churches . p . l. ● . r. parium . p. . l. r. saith . p . l. . r. quin. p. . l. r. ordinance . the faults escaped in the quotation p. ● . in some copies , the reader is desired to correct by beza de presb. p l. . r. is the same . p l . r. objection . p. . l. . r. were dispensed . p l ● r. which without . p. . l. . r parium . p. l. ▪ r. therefore to them , p. ● . l. . r. with christ . to the reader . good reader , vpon the receipt of the answer returned unto the nine positions , master ball moved by the request of brethren , drew up this reply , which upon perusall and joynt approbation , was directed unto the reverend elders of the severall churches in new england . the reply sent miscarrying in the hand , to which it was committed , though both letters and printed bookes trusted in the same hand were delivered : hereupon another copie was from new england desired , and accordingly prepared in the yeare following . in the meane time , the answer being tendered to the presse , it was judged more meete to keepe the reply in readinesse to attend the publishing of the answer , then to part with it in the other way . this intelligence was the last yeare conveyed into new england , since which time , there hath been an expectation to see that in print , which now is sent abroad to open view . by this relation it is manifest who are voluntiers , and who are pressed to come forth as defendants in these controversies . these differences betwixt the loving brethren of old england and new , had not been made thus notorious , if some who cry up the church way in new england , as the only way of god , had not been forward , to blow them abroad in the world . but surely the providence of god is remarkeable in bringing these questions into debate at this time . when the ministers of the gospell from all the counties in the kingdome are called together by both houses of parliament , to consult about the healing of our breaches , which are very many and dangerous : the copie of this reply being committed to our custodie we are necessitated to appeare in the publication of it : yet we shall preface nothing concerning the treatise it selfe , because our known respects to the reverend and judicious author will tender us partiall , and our testimony can adde no credit to his works which withall indifferent readers will plead sufficiently for their own acceptance . if this discourse shall adde any discovery of light unto them , who desire a sound judgement in the controversies here agitated , our end is obtained , and our prayers answered , who are . thy servants in and for the truth , simeon ash , william rathband . the letter of those ministers in england , who requested to know the judgement of their brethren in new england , in nine positions , wherein the reasons of this their request , are truly reported . ( reverend and beloved brethren ) whiles we lived together in the same kingdome , we professed the same faith , joyned in the same ordinances , laboured in the worke of god to gaine soules unto his kingdome , and maintained the puritie of worship against corruptions , both on the right hand and on the left . but since your departure into new england , we heare ( and partly beleeve it ) that divers have embraced certaine vain opinions , such as you disliked formerly , and we judge to be groundlesse and unwarrantable . as that a stinted forme of prayer , and set liturgie is unlawfull ; that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or to receive the sacrament , where a stinted liturgie is used . . that the children of godly and approved christians , are not to be raptized , untill their parents bee set members of some perticular congregation . . that the parents themselves , though of approved piety are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they bee admitted as set members . . that the power of excommunication , &c. is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow , that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and part of the assembly be of another minde , and peradventure , upon more substantiall reasons . . that none are to be admitted as set members , but they must promise , not to depart , or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . . that a minister is so a minister to a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him he ceaseth to be a minister . . that a minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . . that members of one congregation may not communicate in another . these and other such like ( which we omit to reckon up ) are written and reported to be the common tenents in new england , which are received with great applause , maintained with great confidence , and applauded , as the only church way , wherein the lord is to be worshipped . and letters from new england have so taken with divers in many parts of this kingdome , that they have left our assemblies because of a stinted liturgie , and excommunicated themselves from the lords supper , because such as are not debarred from it . and being turned aside themselves , they labour to ensnare others , to the griefe of the godly , the scandall of religion , the wounding of their owne soules ( if they did advisedly consider the matter ) and great advantage of them , that are wily to espy , and ready to make use of all advantages to prejudice the truth . ( beloved brethren ) if you stood in our places , we are well assured it would be no small griefe unto you , to heare and see the people led afide to the disgrace of the gospell , upon weake and groundlesse imaginations , and in rash and inconsiderate zeale to deale with that which is of god ▪ as if it were of man. and if it be to us griefe of heart to heare that you have changed from that truth which you did professe , and embrace that for truth which in former times upon sound grounds you did condemne as erroneous , we hope you will not be offended . you know how oft it hath beene objected , that non-conformists in practice are separatists in heart but that they goe crosse to their own positions , or smother the truth for sinister ends . they of the separation boast that they stand upon the non-conformist's grounds . a vainglorious flourish and sleight pretence . but both these are much countenanced by your sudden change if you be changed , as it is reported . how shall your brethren bee able to stand up in the defence of their innocencie and the uprightnesse of their cause , when your example and opinion shall be cast in their dish ? must they leave you now , with whom they have held society ? or will you plead for separation , which you have condemned as rash and inconsiderate ? you know that thy who have run this way have fallen into manifold divisions , and may not you justly feare , lest the same befall you ? some warnings you have had already , and have you not cause to feare every day more and more ? errour is very fruitfull and will spread apace . a cracke in the foundation may occasion a wide breach in the building , where there will not be means , or mind to amend it . experience every day may tutour us herein . but to let passe all inconveniences , our request in all meeknesse and love is , that if these , or any of the forementioned opinions be indeed your tenants you would be pleased to take a second review of your grounds , and send us your strongest reasons that have swayed you in these matters : and if we shall find them upon due examination to be such as will carry weight , we shall be ready to give you the right hand of fellowship ; if otherwise you shall receive our just and modest animadversions in what we conceive you have erred from the truth . you will not judge , if we cannot apprehend the strength of your grounds , it is because we love not the truth , or bee carryed with by-respects ( though these conceipts prevaile too much : ) such rigid and harsh censures , cannot lodge in meeke and humble breasts . weighty reasons promote the truth not unadvised judging . you your selves have judged that to be errour , which now you take to be truth when yet you were not blinded with by-respects , nor hudwinked your eyes , that you might not see the light . and if you have just warrant from god to pull downe what you have builded , and to build what you have pulled downe , we desire you would lovingly and maturely impart it ▪ for as yet we have scene none , which we are not ready to prove , and shew by the rule of truth to be too weake to carry any burthen . we adore with you the fulnesse of the scripture , and we know the counsell of the lord shall stand : if you can shew that you walke in the wayes of god , we shall heartily rejoyce to walke with you : but if you have turned aside , we shall earnestly desire that you would be pleased seriously to consider the matter , and speedily reforme , what is out of order . thus not doubting of your favourable interpretation of this our motion , for the preventing of distraction , maintenance of peace , and searching out of the truth , whereby we may be directed to live to the praise of god the good of his people , and comfort of our soules , beseeching god to lead and guide us into all truth and holinesse , and keepe us blamelesse untill his glorious appearance , we rest your loving brethren . an epistle written by the elders of the churches in new-england , to those godly ministers fore-mentioned that sent over the positions . reverend and beloved brethren : in these remote coasts of the earth , whereunto the good hand of god hath brought us , as we doe with much comfort of heart call to mind the many gracious blessings , which both with you , and from you , we injoyed in our christian and holy communion , ( the memory and fruit whereof we hope shall never be blotted out ) so we have also seen cause to looke back to our former administrations there , and to search and trie our wayes ; that wherein soever we have formerly gone astray , we might judge our selves for it before the lord : and that seeing now god hath set before us an open doore of libertie , wee might neither abuse our libertie in the gospel , to runne out into any groundlesse unwarrantable courses , nor neglect the present opportunitie to administer ( by the helpe of christ ) all the holy ordinances of god , according to the patterne set before us in the scripture ; in our native countrey , when we were first called to the ministery , many of us tooke some things to be indifferent and lawfull , which in after-times we saw to be sinfull , and durst not continue in the practise of them there ; afterwards some things that we bare as burthens , that is , as things inexpedient , though not utterly unlawfull ; we have no cause to retain and practise the same things here , which would not have been not onely inexpedient , but unlawfull : such things as a man may tollerate when he cannot remove them , hee cannot tollerate without sinne , when he may remove them ; besides some things we practised there ( which wee speak to our shame and griefe ) which we never took into serious consideration whether they were lawfull , and expedient or no , but took them for granted , and generally received ; not onely by the most reformed churches , but by the most godly and judicious servants of god amongst them ; which neverthelesse when we came to weigh them in the ballance of the sanctuarie , we could not find sufficient warrant in the word to receive them , and establish them here : of one of these three kinds will these our present practises appeare to be , which you call our new opinions , or , innovations here ; except it be some few of them , which though they have been reported to you to be our judgements and practises , yet are indeed farre from us : the partieulars are too many , and too weightie to give you account of them , and the ground of our proceedings about them in a letter . but to give you ( if it be the will of god ) the better satisfaction , we have sent you a short treatise touching each particular , that according to your desire you might understand from us how farre we do acknowledge any of these tenents , and upon what ground , hoping that according to your promise , if upon due examination you shall find any weight in them , you will give us the right hand of fellowship . but if otherwise , you will send us your just and faithfull animadversions , and we doe not suspect your loves to the truth , or your sincere speaking according to your conscience in the sight of god. neither taxe we you as siding from the truth with by-respects , whereof you complain , verily we abhorre such rash , harsh , and presumptuous notoriousnesse , we see as much cause to suspect the integritie of our own hearts , as yours ; and so much the more , as being more privie to the deceitfulnesse of our own hearts then to yours . and we cannot but with much thankfulnesse of heart acknowledge the many rich precious treasures of his grace , wherewith the lord hath furnished sandrie of you above your brethren , which causeth us with great reverence to accept , and receive what further light god may be pleased to impart unto us by you . but as we have beleeved , so have we hitherto practised , and so have most of us spoken this our answer to your particulars , most of us we may say , because there wants not some brethren amongst us who proceed further , even to looke at all set formes of prayer invented by men of another age or congregation , and prescribed to their brethren to be read out of a book for the prayers of the church , as images , or imaginations of men , forbidden in the second commandement ; but as we leave them to their libertie of their own judgements without prejudice , so do we also concurre with the rest of them , so farre as we all goe in bearing witnesse against any set formes , or the corruptions in them ; in dispatching whereof , we have been the more slow because it behoved us first to inquire into , and to settle some controversies amongst our selves , before we could well attend to entertaine discourse about forraigne questions which do not so neerely concerne our present estate and practise . besides your letters being sent to the ministers of the churches , and some of us dwelling farre asunder , it was not an easie thing for all of us often to meet together to consider of these questions , much lesse to resolve upon one just answer . but having at length ( by the assistance of god ) brought our answers to this issue , we commend it to the blessing of the lord , and in him to your christian , and judicious consideration ; where if all things bee found safe , and duely warranted from scripture grounds ; do you also as seemeth vigilant watchmen of the lords flock , and faithfull witnesses to god ; if any thing seeme doubtfull to you , consider and weigh it very well before you reject it : if any thing appeare to be unsound , and dissonant from the word ( which we for our parts cannot discerne ) we shall willingly attend to what further light god may send unto us by you : in the meane while wee intreat you in the lord , not to suffer such apprehensions to lodge in your minds , which you intimate in your letters ; as if we here justified the wayes of riged separation , which sometimes amongst you we have formerly borne witnesse against : and so build againe the things we have destroyed ; you know they separate from your congregations , as no churches ; from the ordinances dispensed by you as meere . antichristian , and from your selves as no visible christians . but wee professe unfainedly , we separate from the corruptions which we conceive to be left in your churches , and from such ordinances administred therein as we feare are not of god , but of men ; and for your selves , we are so farre from separating as from no visible christians , as that you are under god in our hearts ( if the lord would suffer it ) to live and die together ; and we looke at sundrie of you as men of that eminent growth in christianitie , that if there by any visible christians under heaven , amongst you are the men , which for these many yeeres have been written in your foreheads ( holinesse to the lord ) which we speake not to prejudice any truth which our selves are here taught and called to professe , but we still beleeve though personall christians may be eminent in their growth of christianitie : yet churches had still need to grow from apparent defects to puritie ; and from reformation to reformation , age after age , till the lord have utterly abolished antichrist with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his comming to the full and cleare revelation of all his holy truth ; especially touching the ordering of his house and publick worship ; as a pledge of this our estimation of you , and sincere affection to you , we have sent you these answers to your demand , and shall be readie , by the help of christ , to receive back againe from you , wise , and just , and holy advertisements in the lord. now the lord god , and father of our lord jesus christ , your lord and ours ; lead us all unto all truths , purge out all leaven out of his churches , and keepe us blamelesse and harmlesse in his holy faith and feare , to his heavenly kingdome , through him that hath loved us ; in whom we rest , your very loving brethren , the elders of the churches in new-england . reverend and dearely beloved brethren , it is not to be doubted but while we live here , we shall have just cause to search and try our ways , look back upon former courses , and call things done to more strict examination . for being over-clouded with ignorance , compassed about with infirmities , and beset with many temptations to sinne , knowing what we know best , but darkly and in part , no marvell , if in many things we offend ignorantly , of frailty for want of due consideration , rashly mistaking errour for truth , condemning truth for errour , suspecting evill without cause , and not suspecting where is just reason , drawing erronious conclusions from sound principles , and maintaining truths upon weak grounds ; so that in examination of our wayes , and endevours of their reformation wee had need to looke warily , that wee turn not to the right hand or to the left , for in the one we add to the word of god , as well as in the oother , and of our selves are apt to strike aside to both . a loose conscience will be profane , a tender , scrupulous . it stands us therefore upon to have our selves in suspition , in as much as experience teacheth that many have swerved from the path of sound peace and comfort on each hand . wherefore ( beloved brethren ) if since your comming into new england , upon serious review of former actions you have discovered any truths heretofore not taken notice of , we shal be so far from rejecting them because of your former judgment and practice , that we shall heartily desire to know and imbrace the same with you , and blesse god for you as the happy instruments of his glory , our instruction & the advancement of the truth . but if the discoveries be of the like nature with the positions mentioned in the letter ; as before , so still , we conceive them to be new opinions , and not warranted by scripture , which is the true antiquity . opinions we say , not practices , for not changing your opinion , you might lawfully alter your practice ; nay , what you did tolerate formerly as a burthen , in case not free , you might well forgoe being at your liberty . your judgement being the same , you might use your liberty in forbearance of a set liturgie , and yet retaine the same judgement of a stinted liturgie , that you had before ; you might forbeare for a time upon speciall reason ( such as present state and occasion might suggest ) to receive to the sacrament approved christians , not set members of a particular congregation ; as some brethren do ) who yet dare not think it unlawfull to communicate with such in the act of worship , or deem it just and right altogether to debar them , as having no right nor title to those priviledges of the church . it is your opinions whereto we had respect , not simply your practice . it never entred into us to perswade you to a set liturgy , much lesse to complain that you had not accepted ours . but that all stinted liturgies should be condemned as devised worship , and so condemned as that none may lawfully be present at , or pertake of the sacraments administred in a stinted or devised forme , this wee called a new opinion . neither do we mention it because we knew it to be the private opinion of some brethren among you , whom we had left to the liberty of their owne judgment , so far as the maintenance of the truth , and a just call did not ingage us : but because it was cryed up , and advanced with all diligence , and endeavour of some among us standing affected england-ward , as if a chief point of holinesse consisted in separation . you know how great a fire a little sparkle kindles . and seeing this distraction and rent had its originall , growth and continuance from some brethren in those parts , or affected to that way , when in loving and friendly manner we could neither receive grounds at home for our conviction , nor procure just satisfaction to the contrary ; what could wee doe lesse then call upon you joyntly to know your judgment , and either by sound proof to be by you convinced ( if happily you should approve their separation ( which we esteem groundlesse , rash , unlawfull , and prejudiciall to outward peace ) or being backed by a testimony of its dislike from you , we might the better be both incouraged , and furnished to endevour the quenching of that fire which was kindled but in too many places , in other perticulars also , wee conceive , you goe beyond commission given of god : granting them authority to whom god hath not committed it , debarring others from the priviledge of the sacraments , who have title thereto by the covenant of grace . your love in that you were pleased to signifie first your kinde and respective acceptance of our letter , and now also to send us an answer thereto , we acknowledge it with all thankfulnesse , and shall endevour ( through the grace of god ) to return like affection in truth of heart , if in measure we fall short . of your respect to us in particular , we make no question , your expressions are beyond that we could expect , as also what we dare own . but we humbly beseech the lord to direct , uphold , and guide us , that in some measure we may walk worthy of our vocation , and approv our selves faithfull to your consciences . it was one end of our writing to be satisfied in this point , whether you approve the ways of separation ( whereof wee complain ) and their courses who laboured with all their might , ( when they conceived hope to be heard ) to perswade therunto . against which ( if we knew your judgment ) you testified among us . you know they that separate are not all of one straine and temper . some deny all communion with us publick and private , some admit of private , but deny all publick , and some joyne in prayer before , and after sermon , as also preaching of the word ( because in their esteeme , this may be done without communion in a church-way ) but refuse to partake of the sacraments . all which separations wee judge uncharitable , contrary to the commandement of christ , and have ever thought that you ( whilst with us ) and we were of one minde herein . if of late we have conceived fears of some of you ( deere brethren ) as leaning too much to what formerly you disliked , we beseech you weigh what urgent and pressing reasons forced us thereunto , and we shall most gladly ( wee heartily desire you to rest assured ) lay hold of every line and syllable , that may tend to dislodge such apprehensions . for as we conceive , the dispute to be unreasonably moved , the rent offensive , the opinions themselves prejudiciall to the cause of god , and the advancers thereof to have passed the limits prescribed by god ; so wee shall esteem it an inestimable blessing , if ( now what hinders being removed ) wee might joyn with one heart and soule , in one way of god to promote his glory , and seek the good of his church and people . we trust in the lord , we should not draw back in any course wherein wee may see the lord going before us , nor be an offence to any to keep the lords way ; wee seek the truth , and are perswaded it is the cause of god which we defend : we plead for communion with the churches of christ , no further then they hold communion with christ , still desiring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , with your selves and all others , who walke in the right way of truth , peace and comfort . how the lord may be pleased to deale with us , or dispose of us wee know not ( his blessed will be done . ) but of this we are resolved , through his grace , not willingly to raise trouble or dissention among you , if through ignorance or infirmity we shall not so fall in , as to be of one minde with you in these matters . and here we desire you to consider that in these particulars you dissent as much one from another as we dissent from you , and that wherein we dissent from you ( and perhaps from the lesser part of you ) you dissent from the judgement and practice of all reformed churches . this wee speake not to prejudice your cause , but to intreat your serious re-examination of what you have sent us , and this tryall thereof , by the touchstone of the word . for if we mistake not , in many things it will not abide the test . you have written in great love and tendernesse , that your positions might be so scanned , and wee shall endeavour with such affection to try all things , and hold fast that which is good . and now ( beseeching the guidance of the spirit ) with your leave , wee shall endeavour to deale fully and plainly , as the nature of the cause requireth , intreating you impartially to consider the grounds whereupon we , go and weigh what wee shall say in the ballance of the sanctuary . the lord of his rich mercy in jesus christ , direct us in discerning what is right and pleasing in his sight , cast offences out of the church , close up rents and divisions , reveal his truth more and more , set up and mayntain the purity of his own ordinances , unite the hearts of his people to the love and feare of his holy name , teach us self-deniall , and keep us blamelesse to the comming of the lord jesus christ . amen . i position . that a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie is unlawfull . answ . before we proceed to declare our selves concerning this position : it will be needfull that some thing be premised , for the explication of the terms thereof . we suppose , by a liturgy and forme of prayer , you mean not a forme of private prayers composed for the helpe and direction of weaker christians : but the system or body of publike prayers generally used in the english parishes , compiled for the churches use by other men not infallibly guided by god , to be said or read out of a book by their ministers as the churches prayers . and that this is your meaning , may appeare from your letter it self , wherein you complain that divers in many parts of that kingdome have left their assemblies , because of a stinted liturgy . now we know not of any other stinted liturgy from which the people do absent themselves , but onely that which is in use in the english churches . for as for a forme of prayer in generall , wee conceive your meaning cannot be of that . for it is evident that many preachers constantly use one set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , with whom the people refuse not to joyn . by stinted and set , you mean such prayers , as are so imposed upon the churches and ministers , as that they are limited to that very form of words expressed in the book without addition , diminution , or alteration ; for that liturgy and forme among you , is in this sense set and stinted . by unlawfull , you mean that we looking at that form , as swerving from the rule ; neither dare first practice it our selves , nor secondly approve the use of it by others . this being the true state of the question , so far as it appears to us , from the letter . we answer , for our own practice , the churches here doe not use any stinted forme of prayer and set liturgy , for these and other such reasons . because we finde no necessity of any stinted liturgy to be used among us , by vertue of any divine precept . and seeing the commission of the apostles limited them , to ●each men to observe and do onely what christ did command them in matters of this nature , math. . . who are we and what are our churches , that we should presume above this commission ? and , we hope , it will not be offensively taken by any godly brethren , that we stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free in this , as well as in all other things . secondly , because the lawfulnesse of set forms and stinted liturgies is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god : whereas for church-officers to edifie the churches by their own gifts , as well in praying as in preaching , all sorts without controversie grant it to be lawfull . now spirituall prudence guideth believers , when two ways are set before them , one doubtfull though ventured on by some , the other certainly safe and good , though neglected by many , to choose that which is safe , declining the other . thirdly , because primitive paterns of all the churches of god in their best times ( when as touching this point they kept the rule in their eye ) whether jewish before christ , or christian above a yeers after christ , yield not the least footstep to shew us another safe way to walk in , then this which we have chosen . as for after times towards the end of the second , and beginning of the third century , we know how far the churches were then degenerated and declined from the first purity ; neither do we marvell at it , seeing in the apostles time the mystery of iniquity began to work , and it was then foretold , that the power of godlinesse would be in aftertimes exchanged for empty formes . in which respect , we look not at them as our guides neither in this , nor other particulars not warranted by the rule , herein following the advise of cyprian , who himself saw the corruption of those times , non est attendendum quid aliquis ante nos faciendum putaverit , sed quid qui ante omnes est christus fecerit & faciendum praeceperit . to conclude , seeing our christian liberty freeth us from binding our selves to any religious observances , whereunto the written word doth not bind us . and seeing spirituall prudence directs us to choose those ways , which on all hands are confessed to be s●fe , avoiding those that be doubtfull and hazardous . and seeing it will not be safe for us , needlesly to swerve from the constant practice of all churches that are recorded in scripture , and there held forth as a cloud of witnesses for us to follow in matters of this nature , wee therefore may not , doe not , dare not use set forms of prayers and stinted liturgies in these churches . more particularly , in that we doe not use that forme of prayer and stinted liturgy , which is in use among your selves : these and such other like reasons have induced us thereunto . the many and just exceptions whereunto that liturgy is lyable both for matter and manner ; for the proofe whereof wee referre you to those faithfull servants of god , who have gone before us in witnessing against the same : amongst others to master cartwright , and the abridgment . in as much as that liturgy was never commanded of god , and hath been greatly abused to idolatry and superstition , and is not of any necessary use , and therefore we are affraid to bring it into the worship of god , as knowing the jealousie of the lord , in matters of this nature ; exod. , and how strictly hee commandeth his people , that all monuments and remnants of idolatry and superstition should be abolished from among them , deut. . , . exod. . . esay . ● . cor. . . in which respect the holy ghost hath greatly commended iacob , david , iehu hezechia and iosiah for taking away the remembrance of such things , gen. . , . psal . . . king . , . & . . & ● . all the chapter . and where other kings of iudah came short of the like zeale , the scripture notes it as a blemish in them that the high places were not taken away , albeit the people did not sacrifice in them to false gods , but onely to the lord , chron. . . & . . & . . yea , moreover , it appeareth by the scripture , that somethings that had a good originall and use ( if they be not still necessary and commanded of god ) are unlawfull when once they are knowne to be defiled by idolatry , and abused to it , king. . . hos . . , . as the brazen serpent was at the first an institution though but temporary : but when the children of israel burned incense to it , hezechiah , is commended for breaking it in pieces , and the lord witnesseth of him that he did that which was right in the sight of the lord , and according to his commandement , which he commanded moses , king. . , . how much more in the like case ought other things to be removed , which never were commanded of god , but onely were devised by men ? and that that liturgy hath been superstitiously abused , may be cleer to any that shall consider that it is the same for substance that was used in the days of popery . and therefore when the papists in devonshire and cornwall , had made a commotion and rebellion upon the change of religion , in the days of king edward the sixth . it was told them by the king , for the pacifying of them : that it was the self-same service in english , which had been before in latine : and if the service of the church was good in latine , it remayneth good in english , for nothing is altered : fox acts and monuments , edward . and pope pius the fifth did see so little variation in it from the latine service , that had been formerly used in that kingdome , that he would have ratified it by his authority , if q. elizabeth would have so received it . and many of the people put such holinesse in it , that they think god is not rightly worshipped , nor his sabbath well observed , nor the sacraments sufficiently administred , if there be no reading of that service . and others put such holinesse and necessity in it , that they preferre it before gods holy ordinance of preaching the word . in so much as the ministers are in the danger of being called in question , and of being censured , if they doe not read that liturgy every lords day without omitting any part thereof , either in respect of preaching or otherwise . in regard of the many wofull scandals , and dangerous consequences of using that liturgie , of which we suppose you are not ignorant . to mention but two , viz. the hardning of papists who are imboldned to think better of their own breviaries , masse-books , portuisses , seeing that liturgie hath bin extracted out of those books , and rather fetched from them then from the forms used in any of the reformed churches . the conntenancing and establishing of an unlearned idol ministery , of not-preaching curates , non-residents , pluralities , &c. in whose skirts is to be found the blood of so many mens souls living and dying in their sins , while they ignorantly content themselves with , and harden themselves in some empty forms of religion and blinde devotion , which are begotten and cherished chiefely by such prayers and ministers . neither is there lesse scandall hereby ( we meane not onely taken but given ) then by the eating of an idolathite , in the idols temple condemned by the apostle cor. . . for if the eating of an idolathite by him that had knowledge , and knew that an idol was nothing , and that all meats were lawfull , did imbolden others to honour the idol , and therefore was a scandall given , so also it is in this case . seeing that booke is so imposed as that the minister in reading of it , is limited to the very words set downe without any diminution , addition , or alteration ; therefore we dare not use it . for the lord himselfe hath not limited his people to his own formes and therefore we see not , how it can be lawfull to be limited to other mens formes ; for in thus doing we should subject our selves to the exercise of such an authority and power of the prelates , as in this case puts forth a stronger act of limiting power then christ himselfe , who doth not limit us to those formes , which himselfe hath set downe in scripture : for though we acknowledge the lords prayer and other formes set down in scripture , may be lawfully used as prayers ( due cautions being observed ) yet there is not a limitation lying upon the churches in the use of those prayers . and therefore we do not find that the apostles ever used that form taught by christ in those very words , much lesse limited themselvs to it , when they prayed , nor did they teach the churches so to doe . if the lord would not have us limit our selves in our own forms , whiles we are exercising our own gifts ( which he hath specially sanctified to edify his church act. . . eph. . . cor. . . ) least we should quench or at least straiten his spirit in prayer , thes . . . would he then have us limited to other mens forms , which have not beene in like sort sanctified of god , but will rather quench or straiten the spirit of god , whiles we are so limited to them ? the entertainment of this form hath been a manifest snare unto the churches who upon the same ground on which they have received this forme into the desks have beene limited to others in the pulpit , by meanes whereof the poore church of christ hath bin wholly deprived of the publike use of the ministers gifts in prayer , and the spirit of prayer in the ministers in publike , hath beene greatly restrained . as for our judgement concerning the practice of others , who use this liturgie in our native countrie , we have alwayes beene unwilling to expresse our mindes there against unlesse we have been necessarily called thereunto , and at this time we thinke it not expedient to expresse our selves any further concerning this matter , as loath to intermeddle with the affaires of other churches , but contenting our selves with , and blessing the lord for those liberties which we , by the mercie of god , do here enjoy , reserving also due reverence to the judgements of our beloved brethren and deere countreymen , who may concerning this matter be otherwise minded . reply . this position cannot beare that meaning which you give it , if you take it according , o our mindes , and the plain construction of the words . we never questioned why you made not use of a stinted liturgy , much lesse why you did not wholly and in every part tye your selves unto , and approve of that forme in use amongst us . you might well thinke we had little to doe to put forth such a demand , viz. whether you thinke it lawfull to approve in others and practice your selves , what swerveth from the rule , and we thinke it strange you should give our words such a meaning . the thing we craved resolution in was , whether in your judgements all stinted and set formes of prayer and liturgies be unlawfull . the reason hereof was because in writings from new-england , we had seene all set liturgies , and set formes of prayer condemned as devised worship which god would not accept , and partaking in the sacraments of the supper in our assemblies , therefore disallowed , because administred in a stinted liturgie , which things were received with such likeing among some brethren with us , and by them imparted and recommended to others , that they occasioned that rent and distraction whereof we complain . it is true , the people among us separate from our forme of prayer or liturgy , but the reason hereof is because it is stinted , not because this or that or ours in particular . you confesse you want not some brethren among you who look at all set formes of prayer invented by one of another age or congregation , and prescribed to their brethren , to be read out of a booke for the prayers of the church , as images and imaginations of man forbidden in the second commandement , and that the lawfulnesse of liturgies , and set formes is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god , such also as come over occasionally , who withdraw themselvs from the sacraments in the congregation , doe it on this pretence , that a stinted liturgie is a humane invention . and if we examine the reasons brought against stinted formes and liturgies , we shall finde them to strike at all formes and liturgies though devised by men of the same age and congregation , and to be used but now and then , or but once on set purpose , and that either in publike or in private , as elsewhere we may have occasion to shew . you say it is evident , many preachers constantly use a set forme of prayer of their own making before their sermons with whom the people refuse not to joyne ; and you know ( we doubt not ) that such set formes are disliked also . and if the grounds be examined ( in our understanding ) they make as much against the one as the other . view but the reasons why you admit not a stinted liturgie and forme of prayer , and see whether the two last will not in the same terms directly conclude gainst both . but what ever is to be thought herein , or whether mens practises agree with their opinions we now dispute not . this is plaine and manifest , that mens opinions are to be judged by their expresse words and reasons , not by their practises . the brownists ( as they are commonly called ) can separate from no stinted liturgie amongst us , but that which is in use , and for ought we know they may joyne with their owne pastors , though they oft use the same forme of prayer in whole or in part , in thanksgiving before meat , or in prayer before sermon , or the like . and yet their opinion is that all stinted liturgies and set formes of prayer be unlawfull , humane inventions forbidden by the second commandement . but if any thing had beene left doubtfull in the letter , that it might be strained to another sence , either because we were short in expression , or many of you not informed in the passages which gave occasion to the question , it is well knowne what the words meane in ordinary construction . and we doubt not but many brethren among you , might and could fully informe you of our meaning that there need no such straining to find it out . that which followeth in your answer to the position ( as you interpret it ) wee passe over , because it is not to the matter intended . and wee are as unwilling to trouble you with the affaires of other churches taking you from your owne weightie occasions , as you are unwilling to be interrupted . onely in regard of promise , and because plaine dealing serves to maintaine love , we thinke good to advertise you these few things . that your reasons why you accept not of a stinted lyturgie be ambiguously propounded , for sometimes you plead onely for your libertie herein , and that a stinted forme is not necessary , and sometime you speake so , as they that looke at stinted lyturgies , as images forbidden in the second commandement will easily draw your words to their meaning . the reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer or liturgie doe hold as strong against a set forme of catechisme confession and profession of faith , blessing , baptizing and singing of psalmes . wee have not called upon you at this time to witnesse for , or against the corruptions in the communion-booke . this you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands contrary to the true meaning thereof . the reasons which you bring against it , we cannot approve them all ; the exceptions which have bin taken both from the matter and manner thereof we know : but to esteeme the whole for some corruptions found therein , a monument of idolatry , that we have not learned . the argument in the abridgement which is used against conformity to the ceremonies did not in their judgement who were authors of the booke hold against the lyturgie , of which opinion we are also . if these reasons be intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration , it is that which ( we are perswaded you know ) we never required of you . if to disallow the use of the booke amongst us altogether in things lawfull , good and pertinent , they will not hold weight . you are generally ( as you say ) loath to meddle with the affaires of other churches , unlesse you have been necessarily called thereunto . but when some upon the request ( as we suppose ) of private friends , and others out of their zeale and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separation from the sacrament , because ministred in a stinted lyturgie : wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie . the rent is wide , and some brethren had their hands deepe therein , which made us at this present to crave your judgements , and the reasons thereof to make up the breach . i. d. objecteth to master p. that his manner of preaching was disorderly in carrying that matter , he speakes of , to the classes , before he had declared to the church the equity of his refusing the ministers desired by the scriptures . and may not we with like reason object , that this manner of proceeding is disorderly in seeking to draw men to separation , because of stinted liturgie , before you had shewed to us or other brethren ( whom it may concerne ) by scripture , or reasons drawne from thence , that a stinted liturgie was unlawfull ? but of this wee may intreat more fully elsewhere . ii. position . that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments where a stinted liturgie is used , or as we conceive your meaning to be in this , as in the former question viz. where , and when that stinted liturgie is used . answer . it seemeth by this your letter , the ground of this position hath beene the separation of divers from your assemblies , because of a stinted liturgie : and we are not ignorant of the rigid separation of divers people , who withdraw themselves from an able faithfull ministry , as no ministry of christ , and from their godly congregations as no churches of christ ; because of some corruptions from which ( through want of light , not love of the truth ) they are not throughly cleansed . against which practise we have ever witnessed . as for our judgement concerning the position it selfe , we would promise two things ; first concerning the persons reading this liturgie , which may be either an ungodly or unable minister , or an able and a godly . secondly , concerning the liturgie it selfe , which may be either of the whole or some select prayers , which may be conceived to be the least offensive . now if the question be of joyning in prayer with , and when that whole liturgie is used , or where that which is used , is read by an unable and ungodly minister , we then see not how it can be lawfull to joyne in prayer in such cases ; for the prayers of the minister are not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god. and when the prayers offered up by the minister , as a living holy , and acceptable service to god , are not through humane frailty , but otherwise for matter and manner corrupt , wee see not what warrant any one hath to joyne with such prayers , mal. . . . when men ioyne therein with an insufficient ministry , they doe not only countenance them in their place and office , whom the lord hath rejected from being his priests . hos . . . but also set up those idolls and means of worship to edifie themselves by , which god never appointed in his holy word ezeck . . . but if the question be of joyning in some few select prayers read by an able and painfull minister out of that booke as on the one side wee are very tender of imputing sin to the men that so joyne : so on the other side , we are not without feare , least that such joyning may be found to be unlawfull : unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers doe neither give any scandall by reading of them nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry , and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . reply . sufficient hath been spoken of the meaning of the position and the grounds thereof and if we have not mistaken your judgment & practice both , you have born witnesse against both that you call the rigid seperation , and this more moderate also ; and we humbly wish , the moderate doe not degenerate into the rigid ere long . it is very strange , if they take not great incouragement upon your grounds . the truth of our ministery , churches , ordinances , and calling is questioned , and where men will stay the lord knoweth , and what more common then that our liturgie is unlawfull , because it is the devise of man ; the author ( or publisher at least ) of a letter against our service booke beginneth with such like distinction . against this prayer-booke ( saith he ) divers have pleaded in a different manner . first some arguments are proper to the separatists qua tales , viz. that it is offered in a false church ; . by a false minister ; . in the behalfe of the subjects of the kingdome of antichrist . these are properly theirs , being the grounds whereupon they make a totall separation from all the churches in this land , as no churches of christ . these i approve not , yet note them that yee may see upon what different grounds , the same position is maintained by severall persons , and that yee may be delivered from the prejudice , which hinders many from receiving those truths , because they feare the reproach of brownisme . secondly , there are other grounds which are common to all that plead for the the puritie of christs ordinances , and which doe not necessarily inferre such separation , but only serve to shew the unlawfulnesse of that practise , and our communicating therein . thus the epistle wherein the same distinction of separation is noted : but how truly , let the indifferent judge . if none must be counted separatists , but such as have pleaded against the booke of common prayer as unlawfull , because offered up in a false church , &c. then are there none such in the world , that we have knowne or heard of : for it is apparent they cast us off as no churches of christ , because our service is a humane devise , will-worship , idolatry ; and not on the contrary , that our service is will-worship , or idolatry , because our churches are false churches . against all communion with us they plead , because we are a false church , but against our stinted liturgie they argue not in that manner . the grounds on which that authour builds ( which he saith are common to all , that plead for the purity of gods ordinances ) are one and the same with the grounds of the separatists , shafts taken out of the same quiver and peculiar to them , some few brethren onely excepted , who of late have looked towards that opinion . see how affection will transport . those reasons shall be common to all that plead for the purity of christs ordinances , which were never taken to be sound and true , either by the reformed churches abroad , or by the godly brethren at home , whether now at rest with the lord , or for the present living , or yet by the most of the brethren among whom they live , and with whom they hold societie , or by any minister or societie which did hold the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace for the space of this yeares and upwards , by your owne confession , unlesse within these few dayes , and that by a few onely . if this be not to strengthen the hands of the separatists , or at least , to lay blocks of offence in their way , what is ? as yet we thinke most of them that have separated , are not so farre gone , as to condemne all our assemblies as no churches of christ , but we judge they have proceeded further then christ the lord and saviour of his church hath given them commission or allowance , that the grounds whereon they build are unsound , and such as make way for further danger , if the lord prevent not . and that the reasons mentioned in the letters are the proper grounds of separatists , and not common to all them that seeke the purity of religion , for they are not approved by your selves : and if all this tend not to turne them who halt , out of the right way , wee heartily intreate you to consider . your judgement concerning the position , you deliver in three propositions ( for so many they be for substance ) in respect of the persons reading the liturgie , or the thing it selfe that is read . as if any part of the liturgie bee read , ( put case some few selected prayers onely , by an unable and ungodly minister : it is unlawfull ( say you ) for the people to joyne in that case . but if it be unlawfull for the people to joyne , when an ungodly minister readeth some few select prayers , it is either in respect of the minister , or the prayers themselves . not of the prayers themselves , for they be select and choyce , faultlesse both in respect of matter and manner , as it is taken for granted , unlesse this distribution be to no purpose ; if in respect of the minister , then it is not lawfull to joyne with such a one in any ordinance of god whatsoever . for if the minister make it unlawfull , then all communion in any part of gods worship , with such ministers is unlawfull , and so the church in all ages of the world , the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles , and the faithfull in the primitive churches sinned , in holding communion with such , when the priests were dumbe dogges that could not barke , and greedy dogges that could never have enough ; when the prophets prophesied lies , and the priests bare rule by their meanes ; when the priests bought and sold doves in the temple , and tooke upon them to provide such things for them that were to offer ; when the pharisees corrupted the law by false glosses , taught for doctrines mens precepts , made the commandements of god of none effect through their traditions , under pretence of long prayer devoured widowes houses , taught the law , but practised it not ; when they were such , and did such things , they were ungodly ministers ; but we never find that the prophets , our saviour , the apostles , did either forbeare themselves , or warne the faithfull not to communicate with such in the ordinance of worship . we reade our saviour charged his disciples , to beware of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , to let them alone , because they were the blind leaders of the blind , but he never forbade to communicate with them in the ordinances of god. it is not then for private christians to withdraw themselves from the ordinance of worship , and communion of the church , because such are permitted to deale in the holy things of god , whom they judge or know unfit : when men joyne in the worship of god with unworthy ministers , they doe not countenance them in their place and office , but obey the commandement of god , who requires their attendance upon his highnesse in that way and meanes . to goe no further then the text you quote , because thou hast despised knowledge , i will also reject thee , &c. properly the text is spoken of the ten tribes called israel , and the priests among them who worshipped the calves which ieroboam had set up , whom the lord threatneth to reject , because they had rejected knowledge being either wilfully ignorant , or withholding the truth in unrighteousnesse . whether they were for the present absolutely rejected , or the lord threatens only to reject them we will not dispute . this may suffice that it is not to be found either in this or any other text of scripture , that the people joyning in the true worship of god , with unworthy ministers , do countenance them in their place thereby . on the contrary , if you will extend this text to all unworthy ministers of what sort soever , whom the word of truth doth condemne as not approved ministers of god , the scripture teacheth evidently not onely that the people by joyning do not countenance them in their place and office , but that they must and ought to joyne with them in the worship of god , and in separating from the ordinance they shall sinne against god , much lesse then do they in such joyning set those idols and meanes of worship , which god never appointed in his word . for the worship is of god , and the ministery is of god , the person unworthily executing his place , is neither set up by some few private christians , nor can by them be removed . and warrant to withdraw themselves from the worship of god , because such as ought not , are suffered to entermeddle in the holy things of god , they have none from god. dumbe dogs , greedy dogs , idol-sheepheards , false prophets , strangers , are unworthy ministers , but they that communicate with such in the ordinance of worship , are never said to set up idols or means of worship which god never appointed . the sheep of christ will not heare strangers in the lords sense , but outwardly they heard those strangers preach ( if the scribes and pharisees were such ) and by hearing them discovered them to be strangers , i. e. false prophets ; some strangers at least , of whom our saviour speaks , were of the true church , and of israel , but brought false doctrine tending to kill the soule , such strangers none should heare , that is , believe and follow : but as they be tolerated in the church , so they may hear them , so long as they bring the truth . unworthy ministers are no ministers for themselves , but they are ministers for the people of god , that is , so long as they be in the place of ministers , the acts of their administrations are of force to the faithfull , if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by christ ; for christs ordinances have their efficacy from him , not from them that serve about them , and evill ministers minister not in their own name , but in christs and by his commission . it hath evermore bin held for a truth in the church of god , that although somtimes the evill have chiefe authority in the ministration of the word and sacraments , yet for as much as they doe not the same in their own name but in christs , and minister by his commission and authority , wee may use their ministery both in hearing the word , and receiving the sacraments ; neither is the effect of christs ordinance taken away , by their wickednesse , nor the grace of gods gifts diminished from such as by faith , and rightly doe receive the sacraments administred to them which are effectuall ; because of christs institution and promise , although they be ministred by evill men . beza de presbyt . et excōmunicat . p. . ista vero , quia nonnulli à sacris caetib . & sacrament . usu propter aliorum vitia ultro abstinent i. e. seipsos excommunicant magnam reprehensionem merentur . the reasons whereby the ancient churches condemned the donatists and catharists for their voluntary and seditious separation and the moderne churches condemne the anabaptists for their unwarrantable departure from , and so renting of the body of christ , will hold against separation from the prayers of the congregation , because they are read by an ungodly minister . the second proposition . where the whole liturgie is used , though by an able and godly minister , it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer in that case . herein wee cannot be of your judgement ; for in the times of the prophets , and our saviour christ , as great abuses , no question , were found in the church of the jews in the administration of holy things of god as can be imagined in our liturgie or forme of prayer : but the prophets and our saviour who taught the people to keepe themselves pure and undefiled , never taught them to separate from the administration of the holy things of god. and if the presence at our forms of prayer be not lawful by reason of the corruptions alleaged , there can be no visible society named throughout the world since . yeeres after christ or thereabouts , wherein a christian might lawfully joyne in prayer , reading the scripture , hearing the word or participation of the sacraments . for compare the doctrines , prayers , rites at those times in use in the churches with ours , and in all these , ( blessed be the name of the lord ) wee are more pure then they . but no man will be so bold ( we hope ) as to affirme the state of the churches within . yeeres after christ , to be so miserably decayed that the faithfull could not without sin hold communion with them in the aforesaid ordinances . the prayers of the minister , whether conceived or stinted in a set forme , be not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god both in the one and the other . but you will not say , the people ought not to joyne with their pastor in the publique assembly , if ought bee amisse in his prayer for matter , or manner , or both . it is all one to the people in this case , whether the fault be personall ( as some distinguish ) or otherwise knowne beforehand or not knowne : for if simple presence defile , whether it was knowne beforehand or not , all presence is faulty . and if simple presence defile not , our presence is not condemned , by reason of the corruptions knowne , whereof we stand not guilty , whether the corruption be through humane frailty or not , it is not in us to enquire , but rather whether we be called to come , and the faults such as one christian cannot or must not tolerate in another without breach of charity . for if the errour be such as may be tolerated , and i am called to be present ; by such fault i am not defiled though knowne before . if the error be such as in conscience may not be tolerated , though not knowne before hand , i am bound , if present some way to professe against it . this distinction of personall and ministeriall faults in this case untill it be cleared by some text of scripture or sound reason from the word , must goe for the devise of man. a church , a minister , or a christian may be stiffe in an error ( being misperswaded it is a truth ) after many meanes long used to convince them , with whom yet we must hold communion in the ordinances of religion : and the error may be such as we cannot without hypocrisy or denyall of the truth hold communion , though such meanes of conviction have not gone before . but the corruptions alleadged against our forme of prayer for matter or manner , are such as one christian may and must tolerate in another where he hath no power to redresse them . hath not christian wisdome and experience of humane frailties lessoned you ( deere brethren ) to beare one with another in matters of greater consequence then any have or can be objected truly against the form of prayer in use among us ? and why such corruptions should not be ascribed to humane frailty ; we see not : for if a godly minister make use of a book in things which he judgeth lawfull for matter and manner , the corruption in him that useth it according to his judgement , from what cause can it spring but humane ignorance and frailty ? we rest assured you question not the integrity of many , who make much more use of the booke then onely in a few select prayers . from the bottome of our hearts we desire and pray that god would remove out of his church and worship whatsoever offendeth for matter or manner , and that all things may be so done , not onely that they may be tolerated but that they might be approved in the conscience of all men . but we are perswaded that not onely some few select prayers but many prayers & other exhortations may lawfully be used , with fruit and edification to gods people . to aggravate faults especially when it tends to draw away people from the ordinances of god , is no lesse fault then to excuse them , it may be greater , and therefore we dare not esteeme the prayers read by a godly and faithfull minister according to the booke in use among us , a corrupt sacrifice whether in such as read them , or them that be present . in them that join according to christs command ( and liberty of absence from christ hath not beene shewed ) notwithstanding the corruptions , we hold the prayers to be an holy and acceptable sacrifice to god , and pleasing to jesus christ . the corrupt sacrifice is that , which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily , and out of neglect , having a male in his flock : but the faithfull bringeth himself and his godly desires according to the will of god , and as for corruptions , whether respecting matter or forme , they are none of his , they cleave not to his sacrifice to staine or pollute it . as for the text of the prophet mal. . , . it is cited by many in this businesse , and to many purposes applyed , but we cannot finde that in the prophet for which it is here brought , the deceiver is accursed that offereth a corrupt thing to the lord. this we reade and beleeve , but that a godly man , being present at this forme of prayer among us , read by a godly and faithfull minister , is the deceiver , who offereth a corrupt thing unto the lord , that is not proved . no argument can be brought from this place to the purpose , but by analogy , which is a kinde of arguing of all other most ready at hand , but lyable to most exceptions , and apt to draw aside , if great care be not had , ( which in this place we finde not ) to take the proportion in every materiall point just and right . and we desire such as alleadge this passage of scripture against simple presence at the prayers of our liturgy , advisedly to consider whether god allow them to make such application of his truth which wee much doubt of , to say no more . your third proposition . that as you are very tender of imputing sinne to those men that joyne in some select prayers read by an able and godly minister : so on the other side you are not without feare , least such joyning may be found unlawfull , unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers , neither give any scandall by reading them , nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . we cannot conceive how you should imagine the practice of a godly minister in reading some few select prayers to be scandalous or offensive in their congregations when the people generally , not in their assemblies onely , but throughout the whole land , were perswaded of the lawfulnesse of that course till now of late some have beene drawne away to separate , who yet by warrant of scripture produce nothing of weight to countenance that practice . if the booke should be as you take it an idolathite , latent offence doth not oblige . if any man say unto thee , this is sacrificed to idols , eat it not , so that if it doe not manifestly appeare that this practice is scandalous ; it is not lawfull for the people to withdraw themselves . the book ( we speake of the liturgie so far as it is sound and good ) by your confession is no idolathite , neither was it taken out of the masse-book in such sense as you object , but rather the masse & other idolatrous prayers were added to it , for popery is as a scab or leprosie cleaving to the church , and many truths belonging to the church as her proper legacie were stollen and heaped together in that denne . and why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever he finds thē , or the thiefe plead title to the true mans goods by prescription , we know not ? it is no hard taske to shew that our service-booke was reformed in most things according to the purest liturgies which were in use in the church long before the masse was heard of in the world . and if that could not be shewed , yet formes of speech generally taken ( we speak not of this or that speciall word or phrase ) is no more defiled by idolatry then the light aire , or place where idolatry is committed . it is not unlawfull to pray , lord helpe , or lord have mercy , or to give thankes , praised bee god , because the papists say , lady helpe , or , praised be god and the virgin mary . fourthly , put case the minister in reading such prayers gives offence , or attributes unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , or suffer himselfe to be sinfully limited in the reading of them , what is that to the faithfull ? this can be no just ground of the people 's not joyning with them in the worship of god , for that offence is personall onely , and not the sin of them that be present , they joyn in prayer onely , and not in his reading or limiting himself . not to say that every particular person must be herein both accuser and judge . if he give offence must they stumble at the stone , and separate from the ordinance of grace ? wee should rather think it is their duty to look unto their feet , that they goe not awry . let it be shewed out of the word of god , that either the minister is guilty of giving unlawfull honour , or that the people may lawfully withdraw themselves in case he should do so , and we will then say as you do , but untill that be proved , ( being pressed and called to proffer our judgements ) we believe that separation is scandalous and sinfull , never taught of god , nor confirmed by the approved example of the godly in any age or time of the church : yea , against the positive law of god , injurious to the churches distracting christians , bringing contempt upon the ordinances of god , and defrauding believers of the spirituall food of their souls , which is indeed to infringe their christian liberty , and what ever may be thought of it now , in former times it hath been accounted no small offence . fiftly , if this and such like scruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordenance of worship , we must hold communion with no society under heaven . for may not the brethren which hold all stinted liturgies , and set forms unlawfull say with like strength of reason , it is unlawfull to joyn in conceived prayer with others , if either they give too little honour to it , as deeming the other lawfull , or sinfully limiting , or suffering themselves to be limited to one stinted forme , though conceived at first by them selves ? and may not the brethren who hold a stinted forme lawfull in like manner object ? it is unlawfull to joyn in prayer with them because they attribute too much honour to conceived prayer , as making their device and method the worship of god ? and may not the brethren which hold it lawfull to use some selected prayers according to the forms among us , upon the same grounds condemne communion with both sorts ? and all of them one with another , because they either limit themselves too much , or too little ? you say in the exposition of the first position , many preachers constantly use a set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , must you not say upon this ground , that it is unlawfull to joyn with them , because they sinfully stint themselves ? in probability a christian may presume , that in the publike worship of god , there will be through humane ignorance & infirmity somwhat amiss for matter , or manner , or both , & that upon this ground , he must joyn with no society in any part of gods worshipat all . the advancing of every small difference to this height , is that which will bring all to confusion , if men walk uniforme to their own principles . it is well observed by master i. da. that unlesse men will yield so much favour each to other in some difference of opinions , a dissolving not onely of churches , but of humane societies also must necessarily follow , & not onely not two ministers , but not two men should live together , which were to put off even humanity it selfe . sixtly , wee have credibly heard that you hold fellowship with professed , rigid separatists without any acknowledgment of their errour , and receive them as members , or communicate with them in the priviledges of the church , though you professe you approve not their opinion or practice . and if in godly wisdome , you can see grounds to joyn with them , we marvell you should be so timorous in this particular . seventhly , if you judge the practice of such godly ministers , scandalous to them that separate from the ordinance , because it is not administred in this , or that but in a stinted form . it is a scandall taken , and not given ; and by forbearing , if to confirme men in errour , be to scandalize them , they should offend them the more : yea , they should prejudice the truth , and it might be an occasion to beget needlesse scruples in others , and draw them ignorantly from the fellowship of the saints in the holy ordinances of god , and strengthen them who by your owne confession , are run too far into schisme already . iii position . that the children of godly and approved christians , are not to be baptized untill their parents be set members of some particular congregation iv position . that the parents themselves , though of approved piety , are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they be admitted as set members . answ . these two positions may be maintained with one and the same defence , being somewhat coincident , and therfore we joyn them as if they were but one . therefore to prevent all mistakes , it may please you to take notice that we are not of their judgement who refuse all religious communion with such as are not church members , nor doe wee appropriate communion in this priviledge of the seals only to the members of our own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same , though they may be through errour or humane frailty defective in some matters of order , provided that the liberty of our churches be preserved , of receiving such satisfaction as is meet ( as well by letters of recommendation , or otherwise if it be requisite ) concerning those whom wee admit unto fellowship in the seals . for as we account it our duty to keepe the unity of spirit inviolate with any , in whom we discerne any fruits of the spirit , so we hold our selves bound to discharge this duty , according to order . spirituall cōmunion in prayers , holy conferences & other religious actions of like nature we maintain with al godly persons , though they be not in church order : but church communion we hold onely with church members admitting to fellowship of the seals the known and approved , & orderly recommended members of any true church . but into fellowship of the censures , admittance of members and choice of officers , onely the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . these things being premised , the considerations whereupon our judgement and practice is swayed for administration of the seals onely to such as are in order of a true visible church are these that follow . reply . vvhat is here premised to prevent all mistakes , doth seem more to raise then to abate scruples if we mistake not your meaning . you refuse not all religious communion with all that are not church members , and so much they professe , who formerly have gone for , and professed themselves separatists from our assemblies . you do not appropriate this priviledge of the seals onely to the members of your own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same ; if your meaning be onely this , that you deny not the sacraments administred in other churches to be the true sacraments of christ for substance , then you ascribe little more to the churches of christ in this , then to the synagogue of satan , the church of rome . for you will not deny baptisme administred among them to be true for substance : if you deny not to have fellowship with them in the scals , and to admit them to the sacrament , and to communicate with them : then either your judgment is contrary to your practice , or you exclude the churches of england from the number of true visible churches of christ , which is to destroy what you formerly builded , and here professe . all possible care to keep the ordinances of god from contempt , we allow and commend , provided you go not beyond the lords warrant , and deny not the priviledges of the church to them , to whom they are due by divine appointment , nor the name and title of church to those societies , which god hath plentifully blessed with means of grace , have received the tables and seals , and have entred into covenant with his highnesse . your liberty to receive such satisfaction as is meet , is not called into question , nor whether you are to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate according to order . but whether this be to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate ( viz ) to exclude from the sacrament true visible believers or knowne recommended christians , formerly members of visible churches among us ; and their children ; because they are not members ( as you speak ) in church order . and whether god alloweth to put this difference between church mēbers of your societies & other visible believers walking in holines , though not admitted members of any society according to your church order , as to receive the one , though members of another society , unto the seals , and to debar the other and their children . these are the things to be considered in these present positions . and first we will examine your reasons for your judgment and practice by themselves , and then so far as we judge meet , try your answers to the objections you make against it . consideration . the seals baptism & the lords supper are given to the church , as a priviledge peculiar therto in ordinary dispensation . indeed the preaching of the word is not so , being an ordinance given not onely for the edifying of the church already gathered but also for the gathering of men to the churches that yet are without : wheras the dispensing of the seals is gods ordinance , given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it : and because there is now , no universall visible church on earth wherein the seals are dispenced , there being no place , nor time , nor officers , nor ordinances appointed in the new testament by christ our lord , for any such assemblies as the iewes had under moses . it remains that the christian churches , whereunto these priviledges were given , are congregationall , consisting onely of so many as may and do meet together ordinarily in one place for the publike worshipping of god , and their own edifying . hence it is that we read so much in the new testament of the churches in the plurall number , the churches of christ , the churches of god , the churches of the saints : and not onely when they were of divers nations , the churches of the gentiles , but also of the same nation , the churches of iudèa , and not onely when that country was of large extent and circuit , the churches of asia , but also of a small part of the country , the churches of galatia : yea , when congregations in severall cities are spoken of , they are called churches , as the churches of ierusalem , the churches at antioch . to wind up all , seeing the churches in the gospell are congregationall , and that baptisme and the lords supper ( being church priviledges ) belong onely to the churches , it will follow , that as city priviledges belong onely to citizens and their children : so baptisme and the lords supper being church priviledges , belong onely to the members of particular churches , and their seed . and that seeing sigillum sequitur donum , to apply them to others what is it but to abuse them ? as a seal of a corporation is abused if added to confirme the grant of priviledges which are peculiar to any towne corporate to one that being no free-man of that corporation is uncapable thereof . reply . if by the church be understood the society of men , professing the entire faith of christ , the seales are given unto it as a peculiar priviledge ; but if by the church you understand onely a congregationall assembly in church order , the seales were never appropriated to it . but to examine every thing in order as it is propounded . the seales , baptisme , and the lords supper , are given to the church as priviledges peculiar thereunto , not onely in ordinary ( as you say ) but also in extraordinary dispensation . true baptisme is not without the church , but within it ; an ordinance given to it , and they that are baptised , must needes be of a church . the sacraments are the seales of the covenant to the faithfull , which is the forme of the church , and when for substance rightly used , tokens and pledges of our spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family , and symbolls or testimonies whereby the people of god are distinguished from all other nations . this is most certain , as in the ordinary ; so in the extraordinary dispensation of the seales , as is confirmed by the texts of scripture alleadged in the margine . for the apostles ( as you say ) dispenced the seales in an extraordinary way , but the seales dispenced by the apostles were seales of the covenant , priviledges peculiar to the church , priviledges of spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family . and when you say the dispencing of the seals is an ordinance given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it , must it not be understood in extraordinary , dispensation as wel as ordinary : to what pupose then are those words ( in ordinary dispensation ) added to the proposition ? if thereby you would intimate that the sacraments be not the peculiar priviledges of the church , and seales of the covenant in extraordinary dispensation , it is evidently crosse to the text you cite , and to your selves afterward . if your meaning be , that in ordinary dispensation the sacraments doe of right belong to them onely , who bee set members of a visible congregation , it is all one with the conclusion , that which is in question and should be proved , and that which this very scripture doth plentifully disprove ' ; for they that were baptised were not set members of a particular congregationall church whereunto they were baptised , nor in a church way before baptisme ( as is evident and granted by the most of your selves ) but by baptisme solemnly admitted into the church , and then it is not for your purpose ; or they were set members ( as some of the brethren seeme to contend in answer to the objection framed against this consideration ) and then the words are more then superfluous . added , they were to prevent the objection which you foresaw might be made from the apostles practice and example but so as they cut asunder the sinews of the consideration it selfe , and make it of no force . for as those beleivers were of the church : so are approved christians and their seed among us : therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . and as the seales : so is the word of salvation preached and received a priviledge of the church . if by the preaching of the word you understand nothing but the tender of salvation or the publishing of the will of god , concerning the salvation of man , whether by private or publike persons ; it is not proper to the church but an ordinance given for the gathering of men to the church , and not only for the edifying of the church . for the apostles first preached to the gentiles when infidels , that they might be converted ; and we doubt not but a minister or private christian comming into a country of infidells , may as occasion is offered , and as they shall be inabled , instruct and perswade them to receive the faith of christ : but if by the preaching of the word be meant the giving of the word to a people , to abide and continue with them , and consequently their receiving of it at least in profession then it is proper to the church of god. the word makes disciples to christ , and the word given to a people is gods covenanting with them , and the peoples receiving this word and professing their faith in god through iesus christ is the taking of god to bee their god. the lawes and statutes which god gave to israell , was the honour and ornament to that nation , and a testimony that god had separated them from all other people , even the gentiles themselves being iudges . the word of reconciliation is sent and given to the world reconciled in iesus christ , and they that receive the doctrine , law , or word of god are the disciples , servants and people of god. in your second consideration you intimate that there is a two fold preaching , the one by office and authority , the other in common charity , or how ever else it may be called . for thus you write . god hath joyned to preach ( viz by office ) and to baptize together , therefore we may not separate them . now to preach unto , that is to instruct or counsell in charity is a duty which may be performed to an infidell , but to preach by office is proper to them that are called to that office : and so to be taught and instructed by officers in the church is proper to the church . to have pastors who shall feed with knowledge and understanding is a gift of matrimoniall love which god vouchsafeth unto his church . the apostles first gathered churches and then ordained elders in everie citie or church ; so that it is proper to the church to be fed and guided by true spirituall pastors who teach and blesse in the name of the lord. and if the word preached and received bee a certaine note of the true church , they that have intyrely received the word of salvation and have pastors godly and faithfull to feede and guide them , they and their seed have right and interest unto the seales in order . moreover the true worship of god is an inseparable and infallible marke of the true church of god , for where christ is , there is his church . this is the prerogative of the church . the prince shall be in the midst of them , and he shall go in when they goe in , &c. and christ saith , where . or . are met together in my name there am i in the middest among them . and for certain they are gathered in the name of christ that being lawfully called doe assemble to worship god and call upon his name in the mediation of iesus christ . in times past , the church was acknowledged by the feare of god , and entyre service of his majestie , by the professing of the true faith and faithfull calling upon gods name . the signes of apostolike churches are these . the continuance in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and breaking of bread and prayer . and if faith , true and lively ( though mixed with many doubtings and errors ) make a man a living member of iesus christ , the entyre profession of true faith joyned with holynesse of life in some measure answerable thereunto , makes a man a true member of the visible church . and if the feales belong to the church in right and orderly dispensation , they that joyne together in the true worship of god , according to his will , with godly and faithfull pastors , they have right and title to the sacraments according to divine institution . thirdly , that there is now no visible catholike church in your sense will easily bee granted . i. e. there is no universall society consisting of all such as are accounted or to bee esteemed christians , subjected to one or many vniversall pastors or guides , wherwithall subordinates must communicate in some sacred things which may make them one church and which may and can be performed by that vniversall and head church only . such an vniversall christian church christ never ordained , no not in the dayes of the apostles , to whom all the care of all the churches , was committed . the churches planted by the apostles had all the same substantiall lawes and customes , the same guides and officers for kinde , the same ordinances of worship and meanes of salvation : but one flock or society in the fore mentioned acceptation they were not , because they were but subordinate to one visible head , christ , with which they were to hold union and communion in some worship to be performed by them all jointly assembled at some speciall solemnity , nor subjected to the government of any supreame tribunall constantly to be erected and continued among them . neverthelesse , in some respects of reason , the visible church , may be called the church , sheepfold or flock of christ ; for if the whole society or body mysticall of christ be one , this church militant in like sort is one : the unity of which society consists in that uniformity , which all severall persons thereunto belonging , have by reason of that one lord whose servants they all are , and professe themselves , that one spirit whereby they are animated as the body by one soul ; whereby they believe in christ , and which they acknowledge and professe , that one baptisme inward and outward , whereby they put on christ , and are initiated . this society is one in the inward fruition and enjoying of the benefits of christs death and resurrection , and in outward profession of those things which supernaturally appertain to the very essence of the church , and are necessarily required in every christian , this acceptation of the word is not unusuall in scripture . as god hath set some in the church . his bodies sake which is the church . the church viz. whereof paul was made a minister , and whereunto the rest of the apostles were ordained , which was the catholike visible church , the society of men professing the faith of christ throughout the world , divided into many particular churches whereof some are pure , others impure , some more , others lesse sound . hereunto it may be added , that every multitude and society of believers are indefinitely called the church , i persecuted the church of god. the house of god which is the church of the living god. in which sense all the churches in the world may truly be called one . and thus the apostle peter writing to many dispersed churches , who could not assemble in one place nor be fed by one shepherd , speaketh of them singularly as one flock . feed the flock of god which is among you . but that flock are the strangers dispersed through pontus , galatia . asia , cappadocia , and bythinia , which could not possibly joine together in the ordinances of worship , or make one distinct congregated assembly . and if the catholike militant church be one society , the seals that are given as a prerogative to the church are given unto it , and the true members of the catholike church have right and title to them in due order , though they be not admitted into the church fellowship you speak of . for as the flock or society is one : so is the ministery , faith , covenant , and sacraments , which are given as a communion prerogative unto the whole church , and not appropriated to this or that part ormember , as separated from the whole ; which is further evidenced hereby , that sometime it hath , and too often it may fall out , that a christian may be a true member of the universall visible church ( i. e. he may hold , professe , and maintain that holy catholike faith , pure , and undefiled , without which no man can be saved ) who for the present is no actuall member of any particular or visible society in church order . as for example , a man may be cut off by excommunication , from all commerce with the present visible church wherein hee was bred and born , when hee is not cut off from the catholike , orthodoxall church . hee may be deprived of participation of the ordinance in every particular society , when his right and title to them is much better then these who have most injuriously cast him out , or debarred him of the means of salvation . the communion of saints , whether visible or invisible is the effect and property of the church catholike , and agreeth to the severall parts and members thereof , as they be members of that body under the head , and if particular churches have communion together it must of necessity be , that they bee parts and members of the whole body which is one . . though there be no universall congregation or assembly nor can be imagined , yet there are and have beene many visible assemblies or societies , true churches of christ , to whom the prerogative of the seals is given , which have not beene united and knit together , in church-order into one congregationall body or society , for every society in covenant with god is the true church of god : for what is it to be the flock , people or sheepe of god , but to be the church of god ? and where there is a covenant , there is the people of god. they that are of the faith of abraham , are the children and seed of abraham , and within the covenant of abraham ( though but two or three ) and so of the same church with him by that covenant . the communication and accepting of the tables of the covenant is an undoubted token of a people in covenant or confederate , but every society professing the true and entire faith , joyning in prayer and thankesgiving , receiving the truth of god to dwell among them , and in some measure conforming themselves to the obedience of gods commandements , is in covenant with god. it is simply necessary to the being of a church that it be laid upon christ the foundation , which being done , the remaining of what is forbidden , or the want of what is commanded , cannot put the society from the title or right of a church . for christ is the foundation and head corner stone of the church , and a people comming unto christ , united unto him , built upon him , having communion with him and growing up in him , are the true church of god : and if the seals be annexed to the covenant by god himselfe , as we cannot deny a people in covenant to be the church , so we must not deny their right and title to the sacraments . if therefore the meaning of the proposition be , that the seales be given to the church , that is , to true and sound christians , and people in covenant with god , as a priviledge whether in ordinary or extraordinary dispensation we accept it as good and sound , but it makes against your judgement and practice in keeping away such as have right and title to the ordinances . if you meane the seales are given to the church , that is , onely to set members of some particular society combined by covenant ( as it is among you ) we cannot receive it , because it implieth a distinction not taught in scripture , and crosse to your selves . and for the thing it selfe the scripture hath nothing but many things against it as hath beene shewed . if it be granted that the seales are the prerogative of a particular visible church , known and approved christians among us , and their seed are members of true and visible churches , and so to be esteemed among you before they be entred into church membership as you call it . for every society professing the intire and true faith , and joyning together in the right use of the sacraments in matters substantiall is the true church of god , and every visible beleever receiving the word and professing the true intire faith , admitted to the right and lawfull participation of the sacraments is a visible member of the true church , if he have neither renounced that society , nor deserved justly to be cast out by excommunication or church censure . for the intire profession of the truth , the dwelling of the truth among men , the right use of the sacraments ( which is ever joyned with truth of doctrine , and to be esteemed by it ) is proper to them that be in covenant with god , and they that truly partake of the seales must needes be of a church , for the seales are not without but within the church an ordinance given unto it , and if they be true members of the true churches of jesus christ , other churches , are bound to hold communion with them in the ordinance of worship as divine providence shall minister occasion . in answer to the ninth position you say the members of other churches , well known and approved by vertue of communion wich churches , doe mutually and with good acceptance communicate each of them at others churches , even so often as gods providence leads them thereunto , and themselves desire it . in your preface to this consideration , you say you admit to fellowship of the seales , the known , approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church , and if knowne and approved christians , members of our churches comming over into new england , shall desire either to have their children baptized , or to be admitted themselves to the lords supper before they be set members of any society these , we desire to know upon what grounds from god you can deny them , if you acknowledge our churches , ministery , and sacraments , to be true and of god ( as you professe ) and the members of the church be known and approved , orderly recommended unto you . it is the priviledge of christians baptised themselves , and walking in the faith , that their children should have right to baptisme in all true churches in the world . it is the priviledge of christians lawfully and justly admitted to the lords supper in one visible church , and walking in covenant with god , that they have right to this priviledge in all churches professing their intire faith , and you must shew just and sound reasons from god of your judgement and practice in debarring their seed from baptisme , and parents themselves from the supper , or else ( to use the words of a reverend elder among you , in a case of lesse importance , and not concerning so many ) you will be found guilty of adding to the words , and making eleven commandements , and setting up humane customes , and selfewill against gods appointment . for the sacraments are given to the church as a priviledge peculiar thereunto , but you deny this priviledge to the true visible members of the church , ( as your selves confesse . ) for if the ministers be the ministers of christ , and their congregations the churches of christ , then knowne and approved christians are members of the church . in your opinion the members of the jewish church might be received unto baptisme , upon confession of the christian faith , before they were entred into church fellowship , and it is more then strange to us that you should not thinke the true visible members of the churches of christ to have as much title and interest to the seales , as the members of the jewish church to the sacrament of baptisme . the distinct churches mentioned in the new testament , it is not certain that they were congregationall societies consisting onely of so many as might and did meete together ordinarily in one place at one time for the publike worship of god , and their own edification , and if this were granted it would not carry the weight that was laid upon it , but because it may make way for the clearing of some other points pertaining to discipline and church orders , we intreat leave to set downe , and desire you to examine what may be objected against it . we will not insist upon this that the least circuite wherein there is mention of churches is ample enough to containe some diocesses and the least city , populous enough to make many numbersome congregations . nor upon this , that to meete at one time and one place , as one assembly is a thing meerely accidentary to the unity of the church and society ecclesiasticall which is still one , when they are dispersed asunder , and no particular man of that society at first remaining now alive . the number of beleevers was so great in some cities as they could not conveniently meete in one place as one assembly to worship the lord according to his will and for their edifying . that there was a church gathered in the city of samaria by the ministery of phillip will not be denyed , for they received the word and were baptised , but that the church in that city was onely a congregationall assembly is more then can probably be concluded out of scripture . for the whole city or the greatest part could not ordinarily assemble in one place to their edification : but the whole city of samaria , in a manner , ( as it is probable ) imbraced the faith . as the whole city from the least to the greatest had given heede to simon magus before , so to phillip now when he preached christ , and the text saith expresly that samaria received the gospell . the christian church at ierusalem was one and distinct , but it grew and increased first to . then to . afterwards multitudes of men and women were added , and the multitude of disciples increased ; it is also noted that a company of the priests received the faith . the syriacke hath it of the jews , ( scil . ) inhabiting judea , but the greeke , arabian , vulgar , chrisostoms & ethiopians approve the former , and the number of the priests was not small : there is mention also of millions of beleevers . and when all the apostles , or the greatest part of them remained at jerusalem for a time continuing in the ministery of the word and prayer , and that they might doe it the more earnestly and diligently , left the care of the poore to others : how can we thinke but that church did grow exceedingly , and the number of beleevers there to be more then could fitly meete ordinarily in one congregation . without question the number of beleevers in antioch was not small , of which it is said expresly , that a great number beleeved , turned to the lord and that a great multitude was added to the lord by the preaching of barnabas , and that paul and barnabas continued there one whole yeere preaching the word of god , and teaching the multitude , so that the disciples were first called christians at antiach . after that this church was visited by paul and barnabas , who continued there teaching and preaching the word of god with many others also , and may wee not thinke that this church did quickly rise to such bignesse that they could not well assemble in one congregation as now wee call them ? it will easily be credited that the number of believers was not small at ephesus , if we call to minde that when paul had been there but two yeers , all they that dwelt in asia had heard the word of the lord both iews and grecians , that a great doore and effectuall was opened to him at ephesus , that the art for making shrines , and dianaes temple was in danger to be set at nought , and that those that had used curious arts , came and burnt their books in the sight of all men , which could not be done without great danger unto the church , unlesse a great part of the city had believed . where a church did comprehend a city with its suburbs and the country circumjacent , i. e. the believers who professed the faith within that circuit . it might well be that the number did so increase through the extraordinary blessing of god , which accompanied the preaching of the word in those primitive times , and first planting of the heavenly kingdome , that they could not well meet ordinarily in one place , and yet continued one society . for when a number is gathered in small villages , or some added to the number already gathered , it is not meet they should be neglected because small , nor divided from the body , because the number not competent to make an intire and perfect body of it selfe . the increase of the churches doth require an increase of elders , and ( if they grow to bignesse more then ordinary ) an increase of places for their assembling , when the essence of the visible church is not changed , nor one multiplied or divided into many . and it is more available for the good of the church , and further removed from all ambition , if the society shall assemble occasionally in divers places as parts and members of the body , then to constitute a distinct free society consisting of a few believers , not fit to make up an intire body contrary to the precedent examples of the apostles . in times of grievous and hot persecution the churches of god could not assemble in any great number in publick places , but have been compelled to meet in woods , caves , dens , and dark corners , as the lord hath offered opportunity , one and the same society in sundry places : so that either it is not essentiall to the church to meet together in one place ordinarily , or their society is broken off by persecution , when their meeting together in one place is interrupted . it is said by some where the church grew greater , sometimes by the suddain and extraordinary conversion of more then could well so assemble , then was there presently a dispersion of the former , and a multiplication of more particular assemblies . but in the scriptures quoted no such thing doth appeare , but rather the contrary as hath been proved . in aftertimes when the church was within the cities as of rome , ephesus , alexandria , carthage , ierusalem , &c. the number of believers did greatly exceed the bignesse of a convenient and fitting assembly which might ordinarily congregate in one place to worship god according to his appointment when the church was but one . seventhly seeing then both the seals in ordinary and in extraordinary dispensation belong to the church , id est , to the faithfull , and repentant , taught made disciples , who have received the word , believe , and professe the faith , have received the holy ghost , and walke in obedience , who are members of other visible churches , or to be made members of a visible church for the time being , by admittance unto the sacraments , and not unto set members of congregationall assemblies only . and seeing the godly and faithful ministers among us are the true ministers of christ , and their godly congregations , true churches , and knowne , and approved christians , true members of visible churches formerly baptized , and admitted to the lords supper . this consideration is of no weight to justifie your opinion and practice in debarring known and approved christians , professing the faith , members of the true visible churches amongst us from the lords supper , or their seed from baptisme , because they be not yet received as set members of some particular cōgregation amongst you : and if such believers are not to be received to the seals , we desire you to consider if ever the sacraments of the new testament , were rightly dispensed in the church of the new testament from the first plantation thereof unto this day . the seale doth follow the grant , and as the seale is prophaned , if it be put to a false grant or charter , so are the faithfull wronged if the seale in a lawfull way desired , be denied to them that have received the grant , i. e. have right unto jesus christ , and communion with him . but the faithfull who have received the word with gladnesse , believe , and professe , be members knowne and approved by other visible churches , or such as desire to be admitted members of that visible society for the time by communicating in the ordinance , are already partakers of the grant or charter , have right and interest in christ , may lawfully desire the seals , and may be admitted as members for the time being of that particular society . therefore to debar such , from the lords supper , and their seed from baptisme , is against the law of nature , and the positive law of god , an injury to the faithfull and their seed , a wrong to the catholike visible church , that particular society , and the pastors themselves that so debar them . they sinned grievously who deferred baptisme to the end of their life , and the negligence of pastors and teachers who did not instruct the ignorant and reprove the superstitious , was great . and is not the severity in debarring such as crave and desire to be admitted to the seals an injury to be reprehended ? answ . confider the ordinary administration of the seales is limited to the ministery and the ministery to a particular church ; therefore the seals also must necessarily be proper to the church and to the members thereof . . that the administration of the seales is limited to their ministery is evident from the first institution math. . . where god hath joyned ( to preach ) viz. by office , and ( to baptize ) together , therefore wee may not separate them . for howsoever : any man may by the appointment of the lord and master of the family , signifie his minde and deliver his message from him to the family , yet the dispensing of a fitt portion of food to everie one of the houshold is a branch of the stewards office . indeed the keies are given to the whole church yet the exercise and dispensation of them in this as well as in other particulars is concredited to the ministers who are called to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . and no church office can be orderly performed by any , but one that is called thereunto nor will god vouchsafe his presence , and blessing ( wherupon all spirituall efficacy depends ) in an ordinance dispensed , but when it is dispensed by those whom he hath ordayned and appointed therunto . . that the ministery is limited to the church appeares as from evident texts of scripture : so also upon this ground . the office is founded in the relation betweene the church and the officer , wherfore take away the relation , and the office and the worke ceaseth . for where he hath not power , he may not doe an act of power , and he hath no powerwhere he hath not a relation by office . herein the proportion holdeth between an officer of a towne corporate , and of a church that as the power of the former is only within his owne corporation : so the power of the latter is confined to his owne congregation . reply . the proposition is granted that the dispensation of the sacraments in the new testament both ordinary and extraordinary is limited to the ministery . but in that you alleadge for confirmation , somethings may be noted . the first institution of baptisme is not contained in that passage math. . . but confirmed ; for the seales of the new testament were instituted by christ before his death , and his disciples had baptized many which they could not doe before the institution of the sacrament . secondly we see not how you can apply that text to preaching by office , which according to our exposition must bee a dispensing of a fit portion of food to everie one of the houshould . for it is plaine the apostles were sent forth to preach to everie creature or unto the world , to convert men unto god , to make them disciples and not to preach unto disciples only , or members of the houshould . the apostles certainly had authority , and preached by authority , but they preached not to infidells and heathens , as to disciples or members of the church , much lesse did they give a portion to them as to the houshold which is the preaching by office , which you acknowledge . thirdly if under the power of the keyes you comprehend preaching by office , dispensing the seales , casting out , and receiving againe into the bosome of the church wee deny the power of the keyes to belong to the church or community of the faithfull : we cannot find in scripture that christ ever granted such power to the faithfull , as faithfull joyned together in covenant in those passages which speake of this power , the execution of this authority is given to them to whom the authoritie is committed . if the power of the keyes be given to the whole church the apostles themselves must derive their authoritie immediatly from the church , and not from christ , for the power must be derived from them , unto whom it was given ; but their power , and authority was not from the church , but from christ immediatly . and if the dispensation , and exercise of the keyes , be concredited to the ministers ; doth it hold in all things or onely in the dispensation of the sacraments , and preaching by office ? doe they dispense the seales as the stewards of christ , from whom they receive their authority immediately or as the servants of the church , from which they derive their authority ? if in the first sense ; the power of the keys is not in the community of the faithfull . if in the second , the office of a minister is not the immediate gift of christ , nor the minister , so much the servant of christ , as of the church , from whom he must receive lawes , in whose name he must doe his office , and to whom he must give an account . we could wish you had explained in what sense , you hold the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers , and by whom . for if the community of the faithfull have to doe in all matters concerning the body , to admit members , and cast them out , to make and depose ministers , to bind and loose by authority derived from christ , wee cannot see how in your judgement the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers . fourthly that which you add , that god will not vouchsafe his presence and blessing to an ordinance but when it is dispenced by those , whom hee hath ordayned and appointed thereunto , must bee warily understood , or it may occasion errors and distractions not a few , you know what corruptions soone entred into the church of god , both in respect of doctrine , worship , offices , and entrance thereunto , and how ready and apt is the conclusion from your words , that christ hath not vouchsafed his presence , and blessing in his ordinances to his church ? but of this before . and on the contrary , seeing god hath vouchsafed his blessing in his ordinances dispensed by your selves , when you stood as visible ministers in the congregation , and churches of old england , you must confesse , did approve both your standings and his ordinances dispensed by you . secondly , as for the assumption , that pastors and teachers are limited to a particular charge or society ; but that flock is not ever one congregationall assembly meeting in one place , neither the band so streight , whereby they are tied to that one society , that they may not upon occasion performe some ministeriall act or office in another congregation , or to them that be not set members of their proper assembly . for first to dispence the seals of the covenant is a ministeriall act , an act of office , and not an exercise of gifts onely : but the pastors of one assembly may dispence the sacrament to the set members of another society upon occasion , as you confesse in this and in your answer to the ninth position . and if the members of one church may lawfully upon occasion receive the sacrament of the supper in another society from the pastor thereof , then may the pastor of one congregation performe a ministeriall act to the members of another , and if to the members of another then in another congregation with consent , and upon occasion . secondly , as the ministers are exhorted to feed their fleek : so is every christian and minister to try and examine himselfe whether hee be in the faith , but you will not allow this conclusion . i must examine my self . ergo no man is debarred from the sacrament for his unworthinesse , or to be tried or examined by others , to be observed , admonished , and brought to repentance for notorious sin . no more can it be rightly gathered from the former passages of scripture , that the minister is not upon occasion to performe any ministeriall act to any other people or society , because ordinarily he is to attend his own flock . thirdly , as the ministers have peculiar relation to their particular flocks , so the people unto their particular ministers , unto whom they are ried in speciall manner , as to their overseers , who must give account for theirsculs . and if this peculiar relation betwixt the people & the minister doth not hinder the people from receiving the lords supper at the hands of another minister ; nor the minister from performing the ministeriall act to the members of another congregation . neither doth his peculiar relation to his own flock hinder him , from administring unto others upon just occasion being intreated thereunto . as the combining of the people to their peculiar minister , doth not quite cut off their communion with other ministers : so neither doth the restraining of a minister to a peculiar flock quite cut him off from administring upon occasion : unto another people . paul appointeth the ephesian elders unto the care & charg onely of their own particular flock , but so to attend them ordinarily according to the rules of the scripture ; that as occasion was offered , might performe some ministeriall acts in another congregation . the taking heed unto their flocks which paul requires in this place doth cōprehend under it the administration of the word , prayer , and sacrament , and if it must be restrained to their owne particular churches onely , it is unlawfull for a pastor to preach or call upon the name of god in any publike assembly save his own , upon any occasion , as these be duties prtaining to common confession or profession of faith . ordinary pastors and teachers it is true , are not apostles , who are to go from place to place , from country to country , to plant and erect churches , but they are tied ordinarily to one flock , as the text proveth , and to which purpose it is commonly cited . but that a pastor is so tied to his flock , that he can perform no ministeriall act to any other upon any occasion that it proveth not , nor can we find that it was ever so understood by divines ancient or modern . w. b. telleth us , the learned bring these allegations to this purpose . but the authour in alledging the consent of the learned was very carelesse or much abused , for there is not one that speaketh to the purpose . i. d. disclaimeth that position ; and for the rest it is a matter notorious , they were never thought to be of that opinion ; and wee doubt not if any could be named to free this allegation from suspition of novelty , you would have cited one or more as you have done in that which followeth . feed the flock of god ( saith peter . ) but he speaks of all those dispersed churches to whom he writes , which he calls a chosen generation , a royall priesthood , a peculiar people : and in some respect of reason , under which we may apprehend them , are one flock , but not really as combined under the same pastor , or meeting in one place . and as these dispersed believers , or socieities make one flock : so the ministers attending their flocks or societies , and the ministery exercised by them is , or maketh one . a minister chosen and set over one society , is to looke unto his people committed to his charge , and feed the flock over which the lord hath made him overseer , but he is a minister in the church universall , for as the church is one , so is the ministery one , of which every minister ( sound or orthodox ) doth hold his part , and though he be minister over that flock onely which he is to attend , yet he is a minister in the universal church . the functiō or power of exercising that function in the abstract , must be distinguished from the power of exercising it , concretely , according to the divers circumstances of places . the first belongeth to a minister every where in the church , the latter is proper to the place and people where hedoth minister . the lawfull use of his power is limited to that congregation ordinarily . the power it self is not so limited and bounded . in ordination , presbyters are not restrained to one or other certaine place , as if they were to be deemed ministers there onely , though they be set over a certain people . and as the faithfull in respect of a community betwixt them , must and ought to performe the offices of love one to another , though of different societies , so the ministers in respect of their communion , must and ought upon occasion to performe ministeriall offices towards the faithfull of distinct societies . if this be not so , what shall become of the poore flock when the pastor is driven away by personall persecution , so that he cannot , if others may not afford them helpe and succour : what when the congregation it selfe is dispersed , must no sheepherd receive them into fold , when they are driven from their own , or neglected by him ? if the pastor may be absent from his flock upon necessary , just , and weighty occasion , respecting his own good , the good of that society , or the common good of churches consociate , then may the pastor , the society , the churches procure some man to supply the defect , and doe the office of a pastor , preach the word , pray , and as occasion is offered , administer the sacrament in that congregation unto that assembly untill their sheepheard shall returne . shall the people be left as sheepe without a sheepheard ; because for the good of the churches their owne sheepheard is called from them for a time , that he might returne with greater joy and comfort ? the pastor is appointed to feed his own flock , and yet for the good of the whole church he may be called to leave , if not the care , yet the over-sight of his flock fot a while ; and by the same reason a pastor of another flock or congregation may performe the office , and doe the acts of a minister in his congregation during absence : yea if for the good of the churches he be called away , doe not the churches stand obliged in conscience to provide that the flock sustain no hurt by his absence which possibly yee cannot doe if one minister may not performe a ministeriall act in another congregation . if the prophets of one church may prophesy in another , and apply their doctrines , exhortations and prayers to any of the occasions of the churches where they speake , whereof they are not set members , what hinders why the pastor of one congregation , may not preach and pray , administer the sacraments in another ? the pastor of one congregation is appointed to his peculiar charge but he is a minister in the universall church , as well as the prophets of one church may bee called prophets of the universall church by vertue of that communion which all true churches have one with another . without consent the prophet may not prophesie by exhortation , and with consent the pastor may administer the sacraments . in the primitive churches when elders were ordained in every city , they were not onely to looke to their flock but indeavour the conversion of poore infidels among whom they lived , and the inlargement of christs kingdome , for the worke of the lord must be done in its season , and then was the time of the calling of the gentiles : it was not their office proper and essentiall to travail from countrey to countrey as did the apostles , nor were they pastors of the infidels , but by private instruction and publique teaching ( if any of them would bee penitent ) they were to labour the comming of them to god. and these infidels converted to the saith were to be baptised of the elders ordinarily in those cities , though the number might bee so great as they could not well meete in one congregation , nor be subject to the same pastor ; for either they must bee baptized by the pastors among whom they lived , ( being converted to the faith ) or continue unbaptized untill they were a number convenient to make a distinct society , or grow together into one body , and to elect and choose their own minister by whom they may be baptised : but that either they must stay so long without baptisme , or that a society of unbaptised men had power in those times to elect and choose their minister , by whom they should be baptised is contrary to all presidents in scripture . and so if a pastor may not performe a ministeriall act to any other person or people but his own flock onely , then a company newly converted from infidelity , which cannot joyne themselves as set members to another assembly , must remain unbaptised till they have chosen their minister to doe that office . then must the people thus converted want officers til there be among themselves able men to pray , preach , exhort in the congregation at the ordination of their minister , or ( if that may bee omitted ) till there be fit men among them to examine the fitnesse of him that is chosen . if subtile heretikes arise , and seduce , and draw away many from the faith , and the body of the society be not able to convince them , either they must be let alone or cast out without conviction , for neighbouring ministers stand in peculiar relation to their flocks onely , and must not meddle beyond their calling according to your tenent . there is no precept or example in scripture more to warrant the admitting of a set member of one congregation unto the supper in another , or the baptising of his child , occasionally in another assembly then there is for receiving of knowne and approved christians and their seede that are not set members . the pastor is no more the pastor of the one then of the other , nor the one more of his flock then the other , neither of them set members , and both sorts may be members for the time being , and they most properly who are of longest abode among them . but as we heare it is frequent among you ( as at dorchester , &c. ) to baptise the children of another assembly , and usually you admit to the supper of the lord , members of other churches , and therefore the minister is not so limited to his particular church or flock but he may dispence the seales to others , which in this consideration is denyed . if the want of one officer in a congregation for a time may be supplyed by another , as the want of the doctor , ruling elder , or deacon , by the pastor ; why may not the defects of some congregation or christians be supplyed by pastors or ministers of another congregation , when they are requested and desired ? the minde herein is godly , and the means lawfull , and well pleasing unto god. and if a synod consisting of sundry members of particular churches , met together in the name of christ about the common and publike affaires of the churches shall joyn together in prayer and communion of the supper , wee can see no ground to question it as unlawfull , although that assembly be no particular congregation or church , hath no pastor over them , make not one ecclesiasticall body as a particular congregationall church , unlesse it be for the time onely . the minister therefore may do an act of office to them that be not set members of his flock as he may stand in relation to them for the time . your comparison betwixt an officer of a town corporate , and of a particular congregation is not alike , unlesse you will say that a member of another corporation occasionally comming into the towne , is thereby a member of that society , and subject to the authority of the officer . for so you professe that the members of one society may occasionally communicate with another , and so be subject to the pastor for the time being , which if you grant , it overthrows the whole strength of this consideration . howsoever the comparison it selfe is very perilous if it be pressed . for if the officer of a town corporate , presume to doe an act of power out of his owne corporation , it is a meer nullity , but if a minister of the gospell dispence the sacrament of baptisme , or the lords supper to believers of another society ( though done without consent ) it was never deemed or judged a nullity in the church of god. let the comparison hold good , and most christians have cause to question whether they be truly baptized , or ever lawfully received the sacrament of the lords supper . if it may not be doubted , whether ever the sacraments of the new testament were truly or by authority dispenced , especially if we consider what follows in the other considerations . this argument from comparison is very usuall in the writings of brethren against communion with our churches , but for the most part greatly mistaken , to say no more . answer consideration . circumcision and the passoever were to be administred onely to the members of the church . ergo , baptisme and the lords supper is so to be administred also . the consequence is made good by the parity of these ordinances . for if the argument hold strong for the proofe of paedo-baptisme which is taken from the circumcision of infants , why may we not as well infer a necessity of church membership to baptisme , from the necessity of it to circumcision . and that circumcision was peculiar to the church members of the church , may appeare in that persons circumcised , & onely they , might eat the passeover , and they onely might enter into the temple , which were the priviledges of church members . in our answer to the second objection against the first consideration we have shewed that circumcision was not administred to all that were under the covenant of grace ( which all believers were ) but onely such of them as joyned themselves to the church , at first in abrahams family , whereunto baptisme doth so far answer that the apostle counteth these expresse equivalent to be circumcised in christ with circumcision made without hands , and to be buried with christ in baptisme . indeed , in somethings they differ as onely the males were circumcised , whereas with us females are also baptized . the reason is because god hath limited circumcision to the males , but under the gospel that difference is taken away . againe , circumcision was administred in the private family ; but baptisme , onely in the publick assemblies of the church . the reason of this difference is , because they were bound to circumcise the males on the eighth day , but that could not stand with going to the temple which was too far off , for the purpose , to bring every child thither from all parts of judaea to be circumcised the eighth day . nor had they alway opportunity of a solemne convention in the synagogue on every eighth day ; when some child or other might be to be circumcised . but there is no precise day set downe so baptisme , nor are opportunities of publick assemblies so remote where churches are kept in a congregationall frame , but that every first day of the week baptisme may be administred if it be required . again , for the aforesaid reason , circumcision required not a peculiar minister ( for ought we finde in scripture ) but it is not 〈◊〉 in baptisme , as was shewd in the second consideration . but no good reason can be given , why , in this they should not both agree , viz. that they are both to be dispensed onely to members of the visible church , as it hath been proved in the first consideration . reply . this whole reason as it is propounded makes onely against it selfe ; who eve● thought that the seals of the covenant were not proper to confederates or th● church of god ? but of old all visible believers under the covenant of grace walking in holinesse , were of the visible church , and in church order according to the dispensation of those times , though not joyned in externall society with the family of abraham . and to exclude melchisedeck or iob , because they were n●● members of the visible church , when yet they were visible believers under the covenant of grace , and in church order as those times required , is well-nigh a contradiction , and so it is to debar known and approved christians members of ou● congregation , and their seed from the seals , because they be not of the visible church , for they are members of the church , and so to bee held and esteemed all true churches and members of the church , the true & proper meaning of this consideration , is that as circumcision and the passeover were not to be dispensed to all visible believers under the covenant of grace , but onely to such as were joyned to abrahams family , or to the people of the god of abraham , no more may baptisme and the lords supper be administred to any believers now , unlesse they be joyned to some particular congregation in church membership , or unlesse by solemne covenant , they be set members of some particular assemblies . the strength of this consideration stands in the parity which is betwixt the sacraments of the old and new testament , circumcision and baptisme , for parum par est ratio , but this parity is not found in every thing ( as is manifest by the particulars alleadged in the consideration it self . ) and wee must justly require some reason to prove them like in that particular , but to unfold it more fully , we will consider three things . first , how far an argument may be drawn soundly from one sacrament to another , or wherein the sacraments agree , and wherein they differ . secondly , what wee are to think of the proposition it self . thirdly , whether the reason of circumcision and baptisme be one in that particular . first the sacraments of the old testament and the new agree in their common ●uthor , nature and end , and therfore what is spoken of one in respect of the common author , nature and end that doth hold true of everie one . if circumcision be of divine institution a seale of the righteousnesse of faith , and of the covenant of grace , a sacrament in generall is an ordinance divine , a seale of the covenant pro●er and peculiar to them that bee confederates . but what is peculiar to one sacrament that agreeth not to another . what is proper to the sacraments of the old te●●ament , in respect of the manner of dispensation that agreeth not to the new , as if ●he sacraments of the old testament be with bloud , obscure in signification , painfull ●or use , peculiar to one nation , and to bee abolished , the sacraments of the new testament must be without bloud , cleere for signification , easie for use , universall ●o all nations , and perpetuall to continue in the church for ever . circumcision and baptisme are both sacraments of divine institution , and so they ●gree in the substance of the things signified , the persons to whom they are to bee ●dministred , and the order of administration , if the right proportion bee observed . ●s circumcision sealed the entrance into the covenant the righteousnesse of faith , and ●ircumcision of the heart : so doth baptisme much more clearly : as abraham and ●is houshold , and the infants of beleiving iews were to be circumcised , so the faithful , ●heir families , and their seed are to bee baptized . none must eate the passeover who was not circumcised , women excepted , who were circumcised in the males . nor may a man unbaptized be admitted to the lords supper . circumcision was but once applied by gods appointment and the same holds in baptisme according to ●he will and good pleasure of god : but circumcision and baptisme agree not in ●heir speciall forme , and manner of dispensation appointed of god. and in these ●hings a reason cannot be drawn from the one to the other affirmatively . the males onely were to be circumcised as only capable of that signe : but males and females both ought to be baptized . the infants males were to be circumcised the eighth day because seaven dayes they were legally uncleane . but the seed of the faithfull are not to bee reputed uncleane . ergo , no set tyme is appointed for baptisme . circumcision as other ceremonies did distinguish the iewes from the gentiles ; but christ now of two hath made one . circumcision signified christ to come , baptisme is the seale of ●he new covenant made in christ already come . and so in the degree of grace given , some difference may be put : the other differences alleadged in the considerations with the reasons thereof are not so cleere and undoubted : for baptisme is not tyed to the first day of the weeke : and the jewes might gather an assembly on ●he eighth day as occasion required , and it might be appropriated to the priests and levites though done in private : but in whatsoever they agree or differ we must ●ooke to the institution and neither stretch it wider , nor draw it narrower then the lord hath made it . for hee is the institutor of the sacraments according to his owne good pleasure . and it is our part to learne of him , both to whom , how , and for what end the sacraments are to be administred , how they agree , and wherein they differ . in all which we must affirme nothing but what god hath taught us , and as he hath taught us . secondly , as for the proposition it selfe ; certaine it is , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the visible members of the church , i e. to men in covenant , professing the true faith ; but that in abrahams time none were visible members of the church , which joyned not themselves in church orders to the family of abraham , wee have not learned . in the first institution of circumcision , we find that god gave it to abraham , as the seale of the covenant formerly made with him : but of any church covenant or order whereunto abrahams family should enter before circumcision we read not . melchizedeck , lot , iob , &c. were not onely visible beleevers under the covenant of grace , but visible members of the church , according to the order and dispensation of those times . wee read not ( you say ) that melchizedeck , lot or iob were circumcised , but that is no good reason to inferre negatively that they were not circumcised . we read not that iohn the baptist , or the apostles , or the . brethren were baptized , wee must not forthwith conclude , that they were not initiated by that seale . moreover , if they were not circumcised , it may bee the institution of that sacrament was not knowne unto them , or the authour of circumcision ( upon whose will and pleasure they must depend ) did not command it unto them , or require that they should joyne themselves in covenant with abrahams family : and in that case if they had circumcised themselves they had transgressed . but then the reason why they were not circumcised was not this , that they were not ( as you speake ) in church order : but because circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family by divine institution in some speciall and peculiar respects belonging to the manner of administration . after the church of the jewes was constituted ( when wee can no more imagine that there was a church among the gentiles , then that there are christians among the barbarians at this day ) we finde none must be admitted to the passeover that was not first circumcised , but nothing was required of a stranger to circumcision , but that he professe the true faith , and a vouch the god of abraham to be his god , which of necessitie must be done before he could be reputed a visible beleever , or under the covenant of promise . thus a learned and reverend divine , circumcision was a seale of the covenant , that god made with abraham concerning christ that should come as concerning the flesh of isaac and so of iacob of whom were the tribes who were the israelites , &c. rom. . . . so that as in abrahams time none were bound to be circumcised but those that were of his family as being borne there or bought , and so brought thither which were not of his seed : so afterwards none were bound to be circumcised which were not borne in the family of jacob and patriarchs , or joyned to them . and after their comming out of egypt none were bound to be circumcised but the children of the iewes ( then the only church of god , ) and those that desired to joyne unto them . the summe is thus much , god gave circumcision to abraham as a seale of the covenant but whether it was given to other beleevers in his time it is ( at least ) a thing uncertaine . and if they were not circumcised it was by reason of the speciall institution of god , and peculiar manner of administration of the covenant of promise which in some respect was proper , to the family of abraham , and not common to all the visible members of the church at that time in church fellowship and order . afterwards when there were none in covenant but the seed of iacob or strangers professing the faith of abraham , circumcision was not to be administred to any man who was not in covenant nor any man to bee admitted to the passeover who was not circumcised . this is the most that can be said with any probability : but hence it will not follow by iust analogie or proportion , that the seed of the faithfull must not bee admitted to baptisme , or visible beleivers be received to the lords supper unlesse they bee set members of some particular congregation united in church order . thirdly , presupposing therefore that melchizedeck , lot and iob , were not circumcised , we say there is not the like reason of circumcision and baptisme in this particular . for , first if circumcision was ever appropriated to the family of abraham , and might be communicated to other visible beleevers , it was in the first institution and administration ; but in the first institution and administration of baptisme , it was not observed that beleevers should be first gathered into a politicall body or christian church membership , and then baptized . iohn the baptist baptized such as came to him confessing their sins . the apostles baptized disciples , such as gladly received their doctrine , beleeved in jesus christ , and received the gifts of the holy ghost , before they were gathered into christian church order , or made fit members of a christian congregationall assembly . if circumcision was by speciall institution given as a priviledge to the males of abrahams familie , melchizedecke , iob , lot , and other visible beleevers were not bound to joyne themselves as members to abrahams familie , or desire and seek to be circumcised : but they that have received the doctrine of salvation , beleeve christ , and professe the faith , are bound to seek , and desire the priviledge of the seals in an holy manner . . melchizedech , job , and lot were not onely visible beleevers , but visible members of the church , according to the manner of dispensing in those times : but the seals ( as you confesse ) belong to all beleevers knit together in church-covenant . . if circumcision be appropriated to the family of abraham , it is because the covenant sealed by circumcision is peculiar to abrahams posteritie , ( sc . ) that christ should come as concerning the flesh , of isaac . but baptisme is the seal of the covenant of grace without any peculiar or speciall tye or respect . . you contend , that baptisme did belong to such beleevers as were members of the then jewish church , which cannot stand , if abrahams familie did answer to a christian societie or congregationall assembly ; just reason therefore may be given why circumcision was dispensed onely to the males of abrahams familie , when baptisme is not to be limited onely to the set members of a particular societie ; and if this consideration be applied to the purpose , instead of saying , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the members of the church , you must say circumcision was to be desired of or administred unto all the true approved visible members of the church . and if there be the same reason of both , then all visible approved members of the church must not desire nor be admitted to the seals , but this conclusion you will not acknowledge . answ . . consideration . they that are not capable of the church censures , are not capable of the church priviledges . but they that are not within church-covenant are not capable of church censures . ergo. the proposition is evident , the assumption may be proved , corinth . . . what have i to do to judge them that are without . now to be without is not onely the case of heathens and excommunicates , but of some beleevers also , who though by externall union with christ they are within the covenant of grace , yet being not joyned externally to the visible bodie of christ ( a particular church ) are in regard of visible church communion said to be without . to this purpose is this text alledged by other divines also , as dr. ames cas . of consci . l. . c. . q. . resp . . reply . first , men are capable of church censures in two respects , either in having the power of the keyes , and authoritie to dispense them according to god , or as subject to the censures of the church . in the first sense , many are capable of church priviledges that are not capable of church censures , as the seed of christian parents , children and women . you say you admit to the seales the knowne and approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church : but to fellowship in the censures , admittance of members , and choice of officers onely , the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . in the second sense also many are capable of church priviledges who are not subject to church censures : as the children of christian parents are capable of baptisme , the known and approved members of any true church are capable of the seales in other congregations among you who are not subject to the censures of that other society . spirituall communion in publick prayer is a church priviledge , which is not denied to visible beleevers and godly persons , though not in church order , and so not in subjection in your sense to church censures . secondly , a person baptised is not baptised in that particular congregation onely , but into all churches , and every particular church where he cometh he hath all the priviledges of a baptised person in respect of his baptisme , and is so to be esteemed by them . now the priviledge of a baptised person who is able to examine himself , and walketh in the truth , is to be admitted to the lords supper . all circumcised persons had right thereby to eat the passeover in any societie , in the place which god should chuse to put his name there . exod. . . . deut. . , . so all baptised persons have true and intire right to the lords supper in everie true church where god hath set his name . thirdly , there is not the same reason of every church priviledge , for one may have right to some , who is not to meddle with others . the members of one society may hear the word , joyne in prayer , and receive the sacraments in another , when they are not to meddle in the election and ordination of their teachers . the ministers of the gospel may preach the word , and administer the sacraments in another congregation , and hereto he needs no other calling but that god offers an opportunitie ; there is much need of his help , and he is intreated , or hath leave from them in place or office ; but he is not to admit members into the societie , or cast them out that be admitted . and if the pastor of one church shall preach or administer the sacraments in another , contrary to the liking and approbation of the society and governours , though the act be irregular , it was never esteemed a nullitie ; but if he shall presume to excommunicate the members of another societie , without the consent o● the church , and approbation of pastors and teachers , under whose charge and jurisdiction they live , it hath been judged a meer nullity . therefore the proposition is not so evident as to be taken without proofe , that they have no power to admit a beleever into communion in any church priviledge who have no power to excommunicate . fourthly , that visible beleevers baptised into a true church professing the true faith , and walking in holy obedience , and godly conversation , that they and their seed should be judged such as are without in the apostles sense , because they be not externally joyned as set members to some particular congregation in church-covenant is affirmed , not proved . . it hath , and may fall out many times through the ignorance , rashnesse , or pride of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or congregation of christ may be no members of any distinct visible societie . and shall their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers from the covenant , and debarred from the sacraments , because their parents are unjustly seperated from the inheritance of the lord ? surely as parents unjustly excommunicated do continue still not onely true members of the invisible body ; but visible members of the flock of christ : so the right of baptisme doth belong to the infants of such parents , though not actuall and constant members of this or that present assembly in church order . . if they be without , because no members of a politike bodie or spirituall fellowship : then all members which are of one societie are without to another : for they that be not of the bodie are not capable of church censures , or subject to the authoritie one of another . and so not being under the judgement of that particular church to it they are without ; whereas in ancient and moderne times distinct societies did communicate together , admit and receive each other as brethren , to testifie their fellowship in the faith . if the reason whereupon the apostle saith the church of corinth was not to judge them that were without , was because they were not within the church of corinth , and so not under their censure or judgement : this holds true of them that be of another society admitted to the sacrament , as well as of such as be no set members desiring to be received to the lords supper . . ( the fornicators of this world ) do they not explaine whom the apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without , ver . . . such as had not received the covenant of grace . . church order is necessarie we denie not ; but this order that a man should be a constant and set member of a particular societie by covenant , to make him a true member of the visible church , or to give him title or interest to the publick order , this is not taught of god. . paul divides all men into two ranks , the first and greater without ; the last and lesser within : but that beleevers who have received the holy ghost , and have been baptised into jesus christ , that they and their children should be reckoned among them that are without , that we read not in this nor any other scripture , but in phrase of scripture hereticks themselves are within the church . . the beleevers not yet gathered ( as the godly learned think ) into a certain distinct body are called beleevers , brethren , disciples ; but that they should be comprehended under them that are without , it hath not been beleeved in the church . . without ( saith the apostle whether alluding to this place or not , let others judge ) are dogs , inchanters , whoremongers , not such as are called faithfull and holy , walking in integritie , beleeving in and professing jesus christ to be their saviour . . they that are without in the apostes sense are aliens from the common-wealth of israel , strangers from the covenant of promise , having no hope , and without god in the world : but we hope you will not passe such rash and unadvised censure upon your brethren , who be not gathered into your societie as set members . . let the interpretation stand , and he is without , not onely who is no set member of some congregationall assembly , but he that is not subject to the censure of the community of that particular combination few or many , with , or without officers . and so all the reformed churches in the world who ascribe the power of the keyes to the presbitry or classes , and not to the community , and some amongst your selves ( if not the most ) shall be without also . and therefore we cannot think approved christians desiring to be received unto the sacrament , either to be without , or uncapable of church censures for the time being if they should offend , though not set members of any particular congregation : for desiring baptisme for their children or themselves to be admitted to the lords supper for the time they put themselves under the ordinance of jesus christ there . and as they are members for the time , so they might be proceeded against according to the rule prescribed by our saviour , as they would proceed with an offending member . . if upon just and good reason a passage of scripture can be cleared to prove that for which it was never alledged by any writer , we are not to except against any truth of god , because it wanteth mans testimonie . onely if we desire credit in such cases , our reasons must be weightie and convincing . but for your exposition of this text of scripture , as yet we have not observed one substantiall ground , or approved author to be alledged . doctor ames shewing the necessitie of christians ioyning themselves to some particular church , giveth this reason , quoniam alias fieri non potest qu●● conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt . . cor. . . but herein dr. ames manifestly sheweth that by them that are [ without ] heathens , and unbeleevers must be understood , and not beleevers and godly men though of no particular setled societie for the time , for thus we conceive he argueth . the signes and evidences whereby the faithfull are to be discerned from unbeleevers , must not be confounded : but unlesse christians make themselves actuall members of a societie or church , the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers , will be obscured and darkned . and if this be his reason how can that text of scripture be alledged for confirmation , unlesse by [ men without ] infidels be understood . again doctor ames in the same book , lib. . ca. . speaking of infants to be received , it is required ( he saith ) that they be in the covenant of grace in respect of outward profession , and estimation in respect of their parents , and that there is hope they shall be instructed and brought up in the same covenant . . that baptisme doth most properly belong to those infants whose parents , at least one of them is in the church , and not without , because baptisme is a signe and seale of the covenant of grace . . that children that are cast forth are in charitie to be esteemed the children of christian parents , when there is no just cause of presuming the contrary , that in admitting unto baptisme a difference must be put betweene the infants of those who in some sort belong to the church , but openly break the covenant of god , and the children of others . . because a distinction must be observed in holy things betweene the cleane and uncleane ; seeing else the ordinance of god cannot be preserved from all pollution . to say nothing of that which he addeth touching the baptisme of infants borne in fornication , excommunication , and papists , which is more then sufficient to cleare his meaning in the former passage . to this may be added that he holdeth it not necessarie that christians should gather themselves into a particular society , but as opportunitie and occasion should offer it self . so that it was never his mind to censure them who be not gathered into church-covenant , because they want means or opportunitie as men without in the apostles sense . his judgement is further manifested in his second manuduction , pa. . so many parish assemblies of england ( saith he ) as have any competent number of good christians in them , united to worship god ordinarily in one societie , so many have the essence and integrall forme of a visible church , and all they have intire right to christ , and to all the meanes of injoying him , how ever they are defective in the puritie of their combination , and in the compleat free exercising of their power , whereupon a reverend * elder now among you draws this conclusion , ergo to dischurch them wholly , and to separate from them as no churches of christ , or to denie baptisme to the infants of their known members is not warrantable by any rule of scripture that i know , nor justified by any assertion or practise . answ . . consideration . vve may adde hereunto for a fifth consideration , the evill and pernicious consequences of extending communion in church priviledges beyond the bounds of church fellowship : for thus , . the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers will be much confounded , if the latter be as illimited as the former in the execution of their office beyond the bounds of their own particular churches . . the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude is abrogated , if without membership in a particular church the parents may communicate with the churches in the lords supper , and their seed in baptisme . . the church shall indanger the profaning of the seals , and want one speciall meanes whereby the grace and pietie of men may be discerned and made known ; for if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as you say ) are to be admitted to fellowship in the seales , how shall their pietie be approved to the church not by their own report of themselves alone without attestation of such as are approved by the church ; and how can such beare witnesse to their approved pietie , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ by orderly joyning themselves in fellowship with some approved church of christ as members thereof when they have opportunitie thereunto , seeing such fellow-ship is an action of pietie required of all beleevers in the second commandment ; and true pietie frameth mens spirits to have respect to all gods commandments . and we have had much experience of it , that men of approved pietie in the judgement of some have been found too light , not onely in the judgement of others , but even of their own consciences , when they have come to triall in offering themselves to be members of churches , with such a blessing hath god followed this order of taking hold of church-covenant by publick profession of faith and repentance before men be admitted to the seales ; but this meanes of discoverie of mens pietie and sinceritie would be utterly lost , if men should be admitted unto the lords table without entring in church-fellowship . reply . if it be repugnant to divine institution to admit of approved christians lawfully baptized , walking in the faith , members of the visible churches , and partakers of church priviledges among us to the lords supper , or their children to baptisme , because they be not entred into church fellowship according to your order , then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to be feared . but if by accident some abuse should fall out , the evill is to be prevented by all lawfull meanes : but the faithfull are not utterly to be debarred of the order of god , whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious invitation . and no question but the seales of the covenant may be profaned many times when it is not in the power of the dispensers to put back or expell such as profane them . if the congregation shall admit of , or tolerate an unworthy member , the churches priviledges are profaned ; and yet we conceive you will say the pastor is not faulty in receiving him , when the church doth tolerate unworthily , if he do what pertaineth to his office to keep the holy things of god from contempt . but in the case propounded there is no feare or danger of such consequences necessarie to follow : for the question is not of all sorts at randame , but of christians professing the faith intirely , lawfully baptised , known , and approved to the consciences of the wise and judicious visible members of the churches of christ among us often admitted to the lords table , whether these either sufficiently knowne unto you , or orderly recommended may upon desire and suite themselves be admitted to communicate in the lords supper , and their children to be baptized , what feare is there now that the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers shall be much or little confounded ? is this to take as illimited power as the apostles did in the execution of their office ? how shal this tend to abrogate the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude ? or how is the profanation of the seals thereby indangered ? you aske if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as we say ) are to be admitted into fellowship in the seals , how shall their pietie be approved to the church , not by their own report of themselves alone , &c. do not you say the same , that there be many godly persons , and of approved pietie among us , who are not approved by their own report of themselves ( unlesse ye will take their wisedome , faith , patience , courage , constancie , and holinesse of life for their report ) approved , we say by as ample and sufficient testimonie as the apostles exacted of them whom they received into church fellowship , or can be required of members admitted unto the priviledges of the church , if men will follow the lords direction , or as you can give to ordinances members of your societies . you professe high respect of your brethren in old england , but it seemes you judge them insufficient to give orderly testimonie of the sinceritie and uprightnesse of approved christians , well known unto them , and living among them , which two cannot well agree . we speake not of such who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ to joyne themselves orderly in fellowship with some approved church : but of such as do with all readinesse professe subjection , and walk accordingly , and heartily desire to joyn themselves to the most pure and compleat churches so farre as they are taught of god , or have opportunitie thereunto . and if exception be taken against them onely , who refuse against light to submit themselves to the gospel ; by what rule do you proceed when you judge men to refuse against light , or debarre them who do not refuse against conscience , but for lacke of opportunitie . no doubt ( as you say ) but now and then a man of approved pietie in the judgement of some may be found too light , yea and in the judgement of his owne conscience when he hath come to triall . and no question but many have been admitted by the church , who indeed and truth are much too light ; and some refused who deserved better then they that cast them off , we will not dispute what errours have been committed , nor what blessing ye have found upon your proceedings ; we heartily beseech the lord to keep your congregation pure , make his ordinances more and more effectuall , go before you in the way wherein you should walk , and multiply his mercies upon you in the same . but this we are perswaded , and therefore we speak , that in debarring godly christians from the lords supper , and much more the children of those parents who are in covenant with god , from holy baptisme you exceed your commission you have received from god , and go beyond your due bounds . and notwithstanding your circumspection more worthy and faithfull christians have been denied when of lesse worth , and meaner sufficiencies have passed , and been by you received . answ . . consid . none have power to dispence the seales but they that are called to the office of ministery ; and no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , seeing the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church ; and thence it follows , that all those that desire to partake of the seales , are bound to joyne themselves in church state , that so they may call a minister to dispense the seales unto them . and this dutie by the appointment of god lieth not onely upon some christians , but equally upon all : ergo no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seals till he have joyned himselfe in church fellowship , and in the call of the minister . and indeed seeing a church , and a minister called by the church , is of such necessitie for the dispensing of the seales , it may seeme unreasonable that some christians should be bound to become a church , and to call a minister that so the seales may be dispensed , and other men ( when this is done ) have equall libertie to the seals who refuse to joyne unto the church . reply . this conclusion is not to the question propounded , for we speake of such as cannot , not of such as refuse to joyne themselves unto the church ; or if they do not joyne , it is not out of contempt or wilfull neglect of gods ordinance , or desire of carnall libertie , and not to be in subjection to christ , but for lacke of opportunitie , or through their fault that should admit them but do not . for if in any of your churches you shall require more of members to be admitted then christ the chiefe shepherd of the flock doth , or presse that upon their consciences which they cannot consent unto , if they shall sit downe quietly for the time and serve god in private , when they cannot injoy church priviledges , it is your fault and not theirs . and they may more justly challenge the assemblie as injurious and tyrannicall , then you them as wilfull despisers of gods ordinance . we accuse not the wisedome and discretion of your chuches , but we know the zealous multitude may sometimes be rash ; and when a reason is craved of your judgement , why you do debarre the most knowne and approved christians which come over , and their children from the seals of the covenant , we dislike you should put this note upon them , as if against light they refused orderly to subject themselves to the gospel of jesus christ : what warrant you have thus to censure , what use of this manner of dispute we leave it to your godly wisedome to judge . in the consideration it self there are many propositions couched together , which we must examine severally as they have reference to the conclusion intended , and then try whether it can be raised from them . the first proposition , that none have power to dispence the seales , but they that are called to the office of ministery , is freely granted . the second , that no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , needeth explication . for by the church you must understand the community of the faithfull , as they are one bodie , without officers or guides . and such a church there cannot be without a ministery to call and admit them into church-fellowship . the apostles baptised not themselves , but by the help of others , & those not called of the people to be baptised , cor. . . the apostles appointed by electiō , elders in every city or church . and so there was a church before elders were set over it , but this church was a societie of beleevers by baptisme admitted into church-fellowship . there can be no church to call a minister to feed the flock , and dispence the seals , till they have received the doctrine of salvation intirely , and by the seale of initiation be solemnly received into the societie of men professing christ . a company of men converted to the faith being unbaptized , may and ought to desire baptisme , but they have not power to elect and chuse one among themselves to dispence the seales unto the rest for ought is to be found in scripture : the churches constitution into which christians are to gather themselves must be apostolicall , and not one day or houre younger in nature and forme of it , thus the first church of the new testament . but it can never be shewed in scripture that any societie of unbaptised persons did first chuse from among them a pastor or teacher by whom they might be baptised : you cannot produce one example or other proofe in the scripture , of one man teaching the gospel ministerially but he was baptised , and a member of a true church , or of a societie who made choice of a pastor and teacher , but they were baptised persons . the third proposition , that the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church , must also be rightly understood : for by the church must be meant the societie of the faithfull , not onely ingrafted into christ , set into the state of salvation , and made heires apparent of everlasting blessednesse , but solemnly entred and inrolled into the societie of christs flock , and acknowledged members by free admission into the seales of the covenant . againe , by the church if we speake of ordinary calling , must not be understood of the faithfull alone , but their guides and officers together with them , who are to goe before the rest , and to direct and governe them in their choice . neither can we say , that any two or three beleevers linked together in societie doe make such a church , as to whom the calling of the minister doth belong : but that right was given by christ to such churches as were gathered and established by the apostles . the church hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . but the office , gift , and power of the ministery , is immediately from christ and not from the church . the church doth neither virtually nor formally give power to her officers but ministerially onely , as ministring to him who hath power and vertue to conferre it . and this right of election is so given to the communitie and body of the people , that if they have consented to give away their right , or if it be taken injuriously from them , the calling of the minister notwithstanding may be true , and ministeriall acts done by him that is thrust upon the people without their consent may be effectuall to their salvation . a wrong it is altogether to debarre the godly of their consent in the calling of such as must watch for their soules ; but it makes not the calling it selfe a meere nullitie ; for then many churches in the world within a few hundred yeares after christ should have wanted both ministery and sacraments , and they would have been altogether destitute of both ministery and sacraments for many hundred yeares . the fourth , that all those who desire to partake in the seales , are bound to joyne themselves together in church-state , that so they may call a minister to dispence the seales unto them , will not follow from the former rightly understood . we deny not but christians are bound to joyne themselves together in holy fellowship , if god give them opportunitie : but they must partake in the seales before they can joyne themselves together in church-state . and such as for lack of meanes and opportunitie cannot joyne themselves into such an estate , or be dispersed by persecution , or be destitute of pastors and teachers , may for a time desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by the pastors and teachers of other societies , with whom they hold communion in the faith . the people also who are deprived of right and libertie to choose their pastor , may desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by him who is set over them . if a company of infidells should be converted to the faith , they must desire to partake in the ordinances of grace before they could joyne together in a church-way to call a minister of their own , who might administer the sacraments unto them . to make disciples and baptize are joyned together . and if these propositions be allowed for current , a nation or people plunged into idolatry or infidelitie , or otherwise dischurched , cannot by ordinary meanes recover into a church-estate , wherein they may lawfully and according to gods appointment desire or expect that the seales of the covenant should be dispenced to them . the fifth proposition riseth beyond measure , that no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seales till he have joyned himselfe in church-fellowship and the calling of the minister . wee conceive you will not say that children and women have to doe in the call of the minister ( for women they are debarred by their sex as from ordinary prophesying , so from any other dealing wherein they take authority over the man ) if some part of the congregation doe not consent in the election of pastors or teachers , have they not right to expect to have the seales of the covenant dispenced to themselves or their seede ? if the people be deprived of that libertie to choose or call their minister , must they seperate from the ordinances of worship there dispenced , and from the congregations as no true churches ? if some persons by the providence of god live in such places where they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister ( as suppose the christian wife , childe , or servant ) nor lawfully remove to any such societie must they and their children live as strangers and aliens from the covenant of grace , wherein they may not expect to partake of the seales ▪ if infidels be converted to the faith , must they not partake in the seales , because they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister , before they be admitted to baptisme ? here you say the people must joyne together in the call of the minister , before they can lawfully desire to be admitted to the seales . and another hath zealously affirmed ( it is a presumptuous sin in any to choose an officer not trained up and tryed ( scil . ) in the debating , discussing , carrying , and contriving of church-affaires , as also in admonition , exhortation , and comfort , publickly occasioned and so manifested ) lay these two together , and let it be considered how long many a poore soule converted to the faith must be compelled to want the comfort of gods ordinances . besides , if a people be joyned together in church-fellowship , and have called a pastor to feed and watch over them , wee desire ( not words but ) proofe why the poore dispersed christians wanting means or opportunitie to joyn themselves together into societie , ought not to desire , and that others be not bound in conscience to afford them the comfort of gods ordinances . if the propositions may stand for good , i feare we shall scarce finde that ever in ordinary way , the sacraments were lawfully dispenced or received in the christian churches of god since the first foundation of them . now the premises being liable to so many exceptions , the conclusion to be laid upon them , will fall of it selfe . and thereunto wee oppose the direct contrary . that infidels converted to the faith , or godly christians , formerly visible beleevers , knowne and approved members of congregations professing the intire faith , and joyning together in the lawfull use of the sacraments for substance according to the institution , may and ought to desire and expect the seales of the covenant to be dispenced to them , and to their seede , though for the present they be not joyned into such church-state and call of ministers as you require . answer . consideration . that our practise may not be censured as novell and singular , give us leave to produce a president of the like care observed and approved by publick countenance of state in the dayes of edward . of blessed and famous memory , who in the yeare . granted johannes alasco a learned noble man of poland under the great seale of england , libertie to gather a church of strangers in london , and to order themselves according as they should finde to be most agreeable to the scriptures . among other godly orders established in that church , that which concerned the administration of baptisme to prevent the prophanation of it we will repeate in alascoes owne words . baptisme in our church ( saith he ) is administred in the publique assembly of the church after the publique sermon : for seeing baptisme doth so belong to the whole church that none ought to be driven thence , which is a member of the church , nor to be admitted to it who is not a member of it , truely it is equall that that should be performed publiquely in the assembly of the whole church , which belongs to the whole church in common . againe , he addeth ; now seeing our churches are by gods blessing so established by the kings majestie , that they may be as it were one parish of strangers dispersed throughout the whole citie , or one body corporate ( as it is called in the kings grant ) and yet all strangers doe not joyne themselves to our church , yea there are those who while they avoyde all churches , will pretend to the english churches that they are joyned with us , and to us that they are joyned to the english churches , and so doe abuse both them and us , lest the english churches and the ministers thereof should be deceived by the impostures of such men ( and that under colour of our churches ) wee doe baptize their infants alone who have adjoyned themselves to our churches by publique confession of their faith , and observation of ecclesiasticall discipline . and that our churches may be certaine that the infants that are to be baptized are their seede , who have joyned themselves thereto in manner aforesaid , the father of the infant to be baptized ( it possible he can ) or other men and women of notable credit in the church , doe offer the infant to baptisme , and doe publickly professe that it is the seede of the church , yet wee suffer no stranger to offer infants to baptisme in our churches , who hath not made publique profession of his faith , and willingly submitted himselfe to the discipline of the church , lest otherwise they who present their children to baptisme , might in time plead that they belong to our churches , and so should deceive the english churches and their ministers . to those which presented infants to baptisme , they propounded three questions , the first was ; are these infants which yee offer the seed of this church , that they may lawfully be here baptized by our ministery ? &c. answer , yea. this instance is the more to be regarded , because alasco affirmeth in the preface of that book , that this libertie was by the king granted to them out of his desire to settle alike reformation in the english churches , which in effect you see the same with our practise in this particular . reply . the practise of the church of strangers in london , recorded by john alasco , is farre different from your judgement and practise , not in some by-circumstances , but in the maine point in question ; for your judgement is that true visible beleevers , baptized and partakers of the lords supper in other churches not yet gathered into church-estate or fellowship , have no right or interest in the seales , ( they nor their seede ) but this church of strangers held no such opinion as their own words ( which you have omitted ) doe plainly speake . and paul testifyeth ( say they ) that by christs ordinance the church it selfe without exception of any member of it , is to be accounted cleane or holy by the ministery of baptisme . whence we may easily see , that baptisme doth neither belong to those who are altogether without the church , nor to be denyed to any member of the church . secondly , they held communion with the church of england as one and the same with theirs . for so they professe : yet neverthelesse , that we may openly shew that the english churches and ours are one and the same church ( though we differ somewhat from them both in language and ceremonies ) we doe not refuse that the english may as publick witnesses of the church offer the infants of our members to baptisme in our churches , if they have both the use of our language and a certain testimony of their piety . as in like manner our members are accustomed to offer the infants of the english to baptisme in the english churches . if your judgement be this of the english churches , your judgement in acknowledging us members of true churches , and practise in debarring visible beleevers and their seede from the seales , are opposite the one to the other . thirdly , this order was observed by them to prevent the impostures of some , who whilst they avoyded all churches , pretended to the english , that they were joyned to the strangers , and to the strangers that they were joyned to the english . but you debarre knowne christians who desire to joyne themselves with you , not to prevent impostures of them who avoyde all churches : yea , you debarre them as men having no right to the sacraments , because they be not in church-fellowship : and herein you can shew no president ancient or moderne , either from scripture or monuments of the church : and as your practise is without example , so without warrant from the word of god. and this is the maine reason why we cannot consent unto you in this particular which we thus propound . reason . that sacred order which god hath set in his visible church for all his saints to keep and walk by , that is religiously to be observed . but for men to set up that as a necessarie order which god never allowed , approved , or commanded , is great presumption . now the lord hath not ordained that a man should be a set member of a particular societie , or body politique of faithfull people joyned together in spirituall church-fellowship by covenant , before he be admitted unto the lords supper , or that the parents should be actuall visible set members of some particular distinct body before their children be baptised . they that beleeve in jesus christ have received the word of promise and walk therein , they and their children are within the covenant , and have right and title to the seales of the covenant , but in their order , the infants to baptisme , parents baptised , to the lords supper . and if in that state by divine grant they have interest to the sacraments , the church in debarring them because they be not yet grown into one distinct separate societie of mutuall covenant , doth exceed the bounds of her commission . for a ministeriall power onely is committed to the church to admit or refuse them who are to be admitted or refused by authoritie from god : but the church if she thrust beleeving parents from the supper of the lord , and their seed from baptisme ; she denieth these benefits to them who by the grace and gift of god have lawfull right and title thereto . . for first , the baptisme of john was true baptisme , and truly administred by him : and they that were baptized by him received the seales of the covenant , and were esteemed members of the visible church : but john never demanded of them who came to his baptisme whether they were entred into spirituall fellowship by mutuall covenant one with another . this was not then knowne to be a necessarie and essentiall point in the lawfull , due , and orderly administration of the sacrament . the disciples of our saviour made and baptised disciples professing the faith , but not combined into church-state or fellowship . the apostles commission was first to teach the gentiles , and then to baptise them having received their doctrine . and this they carefully observed in the execution of their ministery upon grounds and reasons common to them and us : for as soone as any man or number of men gladly received the doctrine of salvation , and gave their names to jesus christ , if they desired to be baptised forthwith they accepted them , never excepting , that they were no set members of a distinct visible congregation . when the first . converts , being pricked in their consciences , came to peter , and the rest of the apostles , saying . men and brethren , what shall we do ? peter returns this answer , repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus , &c. for to you is the promise made , and to your children , and to all that are afar off , &c. as soon as the samaritanes beleeved , philip who preached the things that concerned the kingdom of god , they were baptised both men and women . when the eunuch asked of philip , see here is water , what doth let me to be baptised ? he answereth not if thou beest first received as a set member into a visible congregation thou mayest : but if thou beleevest with all thy heart , thou mayest . can any man forbid water ( saith peter , speaking of the gentiles upon whom was powred the gift of the holy ghost ) that these should not be baptised who have received the gift of the holy ghost as well as we ? at that time it was not held a bar sufficient to keep them from the sacrament of baptisme , because they were not set members of a distinct societie , which had it been essentiall to the lawfull and orderly administration of the sacraments , questionlesse it had been observed in the first institution and administration of them . annanias baptised paul before he was any set member of a congregationall assembly . lydia and her houshold , the jaylor and his house were baptised without regard to their church-estate . for in the same night which he was converted , he was baptized with all his houshold . and this was done not by the apostles onely upon speciall dispensation , but by others upon grounds and reasons common to them , and all ages , viz. because they were disciples , beleeved , gladly received the word , had received the holy ghost , were called , and the promise was made to them , and to their seed , even to all them that were afarre off . now if the apostles dispensed the seales to them that were not in church-fellowship upon common grounds , it is not essentiall to the lawfull dispensation of the seales , that all partakers should be under such a covenant . if the baptised disciples , beleevers , such as gladly received the word , and had received the gift of the holy ghost , then the seals of the covenant belong unto such , and by the grace of god they have right and title unto those priviledges . . as we received the sacraments from god by divine institution ; so must we learne from him , how and to whom the same are to be administred , observing what he hath commanded without addition or diminution . but we have learned from christ the author of baptisme , and the constant practise of the apostles ( the first dispensers of these holy seales who best understood the mind and pleasure of the lord herein ) that such as be called of god to whom the promise is made , who have received the gifts of the holy ghost , beleeved in the lord jesus , professed their faith in him , and repentance for sins past with purpose of amendment for the time to come , that such have right unto , and desiring it ought to be received unto baptifme , and are greatly wronged if they be deprived of that unspeakable benefit . . by a lively faith a man is made a living member of jesus christ , and hath internall communion with him by the intire profession of christian faith joyned with conformity of life in righteousnesse , and holinesse , and fellowship of love , he is a member of the visible congregation or flock of christ , though no set member of a free distinct independant societie . and baptisme is the seale of our admission into the congregation or flock of christ ; but not evermore of our receiving into this or that particular societie as set members thereof . this latter is accidentall to baptisme , not essentiall . it may fall out to be so , but it is not ever necessarie ; nor is the sacrament to be denyed , nor can we say it is imperfectly administred where it cannot be attained . for the catholique church is one intire bodie , made up by the collection and agregation of all the faithfull unto the unity thereof ; from which union there ariseth unto every one of them such a relation to , dependance upon that church catholique as parts use to have in respect of the whole . and this holds true , not onely of sound beleevers in respect of internall fellowship with christ their head , and so one with another ; but of all men professing the true and intire doctrine of faith and salvation in respect of them that hold and professe the same faith of christ , and worship god according to his will ; whereupon it followeth that neither particular persons , nor particular guides , nor particular churches are to worke as severall divided bodies by themselves , but are to teach , and be taught ; and to do all other duties as parts conjoyned to the whole , and members of the same flock or societie in generall : and so beleevers professing the faith , and walking in holinesse , may and ought to be admitted to the seales as actuall members of the church of christ , and sheep of his pasture , though not set members of one congregationall church . . not to insist upon this here , that it hath and may fall out many times through ignorance , rathnesse , or pride , of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or church of christ , may be no actuall members of any distinct societie , and shall they for this be accounted men out of covenant , and their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers : but if they be in covenant , then are they holy in respect of the covenant , and their children holy as pertaining to the covenant , and have right to the sacrament of initiation . thus mr. rob. frameth the argument . the sacrament of baptisme is to be administred by christs appointment , and the apostles example onely to such as are ( externally , and so far as men can judge ) taught and made disciples , do receive the word gladly , do beleeve , and so professe , have received the holy ghost , and to their seed . and thus the church of god ever since the apostles dayes understood the covenant and promise , and their practise in receiving beleevers and their seed to the seales of the covenant was answerable , as might be shewed at large , if it was not a thing confessed . hereunto you answer . answer . vvhere the holy ghost is given and received ( which was the case of the centurion ) and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance ( which was the case of the rest ) there none may hinder them from being baptised , viz. by such as have power to baptise them . in the instances given baptisme was administred either by apostles or evangelists , not ordinary pastors : the persons baptised , if they were members of churches , had a right to baptisme in their state , and the apostles being officers of all churches might dispense the seales to them where ever they came , which yet will not warrant ordinary officers to do the same . nor is it improbable but that all these were in church-order , aret , on act. . . is of opinion , that the centurion had a constituted church in his house ; the eunuches coming to jerusalem to worship , argueth him to be a proselyte , and member of the jewish church not yet dissolved : and therefore upon the profession of the christian faith capable of church priviledges at that time . as for lydia and the gaylor it appeareth that in the beginning of the gospel there was a church at philipp● which communicated with paul as concerning giving and receiving : as he expresly saith , before his departure was from macedonia , which departure was immediately upon the gaylors conversion . in which respect what should hinder that lydia and the gaylor should first be joyned to the church , and then to be baptised though it be not mentioned in that story ? as neither there is mention of a christian church , which paul mentioneth in his epistle to the philippians . at least it is probable that lydia was a member of the jewish church , because she is said to be one that worshipped god. but if any man think they were not members of any church yet baptised , though we see not how it will be proved , yet if it were so , the object doth no whit weaken the argument , which speaketh of the ordinary dispensation of the seales , and not of what was done in an extraordinary way . so that suppose that in the cases alledged , baptisme dispensed to some that were not in church-fellowship , yet the examples of the apostles and evangelists in so doing will not warrant ordinary pastors to do the like . the reason of the difference why apostles and evangelists might administer baptisme out of church-order , whereas pastors and teachers may not , is double . . because their calling gave them illimited power over all men , especially christians wheresoever they came . but we do not find that ordinarie pastors and teachers can do an act of power , but onely over their own church , which hath called them to watch over them in the lord. . because they were assisted with an immediate direction and guidance of the holy ghost , in the places of their administration in the cases alledged . but ordinary church-officers are to walke according to ordinary rules of the scripture in the dispensation of the seales , and not to expect immediate inspirations and extraordinary revelations for their helpe in such cases . this difference between apostles and ordinary church officers must needs be acknowledged , or otherwise a man might from their example justifie baptisme in private houses . reply . this answer stands of many parts , wherein things doubtfull are affirmed , and that which more weakeneth the force of the consideration before alledged , and the answer it selfe , then of the reason whereunto it is applyed . for first , if where the holy ghost is given and received , and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance , there none may hinder them from being baptized , viz. by such as have power to baptize them : then either men that have received the holy ghost , and professe the faith , be members of the church , or baptisme is not a priviledge of the church , then it is not essentiall to the first institution of baptisme , that it should be dispenced to none but such as were entered into church-fellowship , or were set members of a congregationall assembly . then the apostles in dispensing the seales unto such , or commanding them to be dispenced , did walk according to the rules of scripture , and upon grounds common to them and us , viz. they admitted them unto the sacraments who had right and interest to them , according to the minde and pleasure of the institutor , not extraordinarily revealed , besides the common rules , or by speciall dispensation and prerogative excepted from the common rule , but made knowne in the institution it selfe . and then the difficultie remaining is onely this , whether a pastor or teacher hath authority from christ to dispence the seales of the covenant to one who hath right and title to them , and doth orderly desire that benefit because he is not as yet received as a set member of that particular societie which your practise in admitting of set members of other congregations unto the seales doth manifestly convince . for if both have equall interest unto the seales , the pastor upon lawfull suite and request hath equall authoritie to receive the one as well as the other . secondly , in the particular instances given , it is not probable that baptisme was evermore administred by apostles or evangelists ; for before the death of christ , the disciples baptized when they were properly neither apostles nor evangelists : after the death of christ ( not to insist upon conjectures whether any assisted the apostles in the baptizing of the first three thousand converted ) it is not certaine , whether peter baptized cornelius and his family , or commanded others then present with him to baptize them : the words may be read : et jussit eos baptizari in nomine domini . syr. & arab. praecepit eis ut baptizarentur . the interlineary glosse leaveth it doubtfull , associis suis vel a scipso . others are of opinion that peter did baptize them himselfe . it cannot be proved that philip and ananias were both evangelists , when the one baptized the samaritans and the eunuch , the other paul. paul himselfe baptized but a few as he testifieth of himselfe , and reason to convince that others converted by his preaching were baptized by evangelists , we know not any . and if philip , ananias , and others might baptize such as had right and title to the seales , being as yet no set members of any particular congregation : and a congregation destitute of their proper pastor , may desire another to baptize their infants , and dispence the sacrament of the supper to them in that their necessitie . and if the members of one congregation may lawfully communicate in another , then may the pastors of particular congregations upon occasion admit to the seales of the covenant such known and approved christians , as have right and title thereunto , and duely and orderly require the same ; for of all these the reason is like and perpetuall . thirdly , it is very improbable that the persons baptized , were in church-state or order . if they were members of the jewish church not yet dissolved , this is not to the purpose ; for men have not right to baptisme , because they were members of the jewish church , but because disciples and ( as you say ) joyned together in covenant , and have fellowship and calling of their minister , who is to dispence the seales unto them . and baptisme is the sacrament of initiation , not into the jewish but the christian churches . secondly , when you say , the seales in ordinary dispensation are the priviledges of the churches . there are no ministers but of particular churches . baptisme and the lords supper are to be administred onely to the members of the church . no societie may lawfully desire the seales , unlesse they have joyned in the choice and calling of their minister . beleevers not yet joyned in church-order are without . doe yee not in all these understand a christian societie , united in a church-way , &c. which cannot agree to the members of the jewish church , not yet dissolved . thirdly , the constitution of the church ( saith mr. robin . ) is the orderly collection and conjunction of the saints into and in the covenant of the new testament ; but the members of jewish churches not yet dissolved , were not in such constitution . if the eunuch and centurion were proselytes and members of the church of the jewes ; the samaritanes whom philip baptized were not so . and that any gentiles , or the gailor whom paul baptized in the apostles times , were set members of a christian assembly before baptized , is very strange if there was a church at philippi , yet the gailor who was baptized and converted the same night , could not be a set member by solemne admission before baptisme . it is said the apostles baptized these persons in an extraordinary way . but in this practise of the apostles two things are to be considered . . the circumstance of the action . . the qualitie or substance of the act . in some circumstances the baptizing of some of these persons might be extraordinary , but the substance and qualitie of the action was grounded upon rules perpetuall and common to us with them . . that is done in an extraordinary way , which by peculiar priviledge of dispensation is made lawfull to some one or few men , which is unlawfull to all others , not having the same dispensation , but where the ground and reason of the action is common : we must not conceive the thing to be done in an extraordinary way by speciall dispensation . what was done by the apostles upon speciall revelation and immediate direction , besides the ordinary and common rule , in that wee are not to immitate or follow them , because we have not their warrant . but what they did upon reasons and grounds reaching unto us no lesse then unto them , in that we have the same libertie , allowance , or commandement that they did walk by . in one and the same action there may be and oft is something ordinary , something extraordinary or peculiar to speciall times or persons . so it was in the apostles administration of the seales : but in every place where they came by illimited power ( as you speake ) they did baptize disciples , if they did baptize ; this was proper to them , and could not be communicated to any others by them ; for there is no passage of scripture which teacheth this , that one officer may communicate his power to another , or doe that which particularly belongeth to his office by a deputie : but that they baptized beleevers professing their faith in the lord jesus , and repentance towards god , such as had gladly imbraced the word , and received the gifts of the holy ghost : this was common to them with all pastors and teachers , because they did it , not by power illimited or speciall dispensation , but upon this standing perpetuall reason , that the promise was made to them and to their seede , and to as many as the lord shall call , that they had received the holy ghost , and the kingdome of heaven belonged to them . and if the grounds and reasons of their practise be common reaching to us , no lesse then unto them , the practise it selfe was not extraordinary . to say nothing that this answer will not stand with the former ; for if the parties baptized were set members of particular societies , the apostles did not baptize them in an extraordinary way , they did it by the guidance and direction of the spirit , that is true , but not by guidance of dispensation , or prerogative , whereby that was made lawfull without such inspiration had been unlawfull . but they were infallibly guided to doe that which was according to the word of god , and might stand for our direction : that in case it be orderly desired a pastor hath authoritie in his owne congregation , to receive knowne and approved christians to the seales of the covenant , hath been proved before . if the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , who received the doctrine of salvation with gladnesse of heart , and were partakers of the holy ghost , then they dispenced the seales in an ordinary way , for such have title and interest to the seales by the institution and appointment of god. and every pastor by his office may and ought to dispence the seales unto such , within the bounds and limits of his calling : but the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , &c. . an argument followeth necessarily from particular example to a generall ; when one particular is proved by another particular , by force of the similitude common to the whole kinde , under which those particulars are contained : but the practise of the apostles in baptizing disciples and faithfull , by force of similitude common to the whole kinde , agreeth with the practise of ministers receiving to baptisme the seed of the faithfull , though as yet not set members of any particular societie , in some circumstances there may be difference when yet the reason is strong , if the difference be not in the very likenesse it selfe whereupon the reason is grounded . one circumstance that is materiall to the point may overthrow the likenesse pretended , and twenty different circumstances , if they be not to the point in hand make no dissimilitude . now in this matter wee speake of , no circumstance is or can be named why we should thinke it lawfull for the apostles to baptize disciples as yet being no set members of particular societies , and the same should be unlawfull in all cases for ordinary pastors in their particular congregations , though it be desired . . what is done by extraordinary dispensation , that is lawfull for them onely who have received such dispensation , and by them cannot be communicated to others . but the apostles baptized by others seldome by themselves , as hath been shewed . . we might urge the rule which a reverend elder among you , giveth in another matter , ( scil . ) those examples which are backed with some divine precept , or which are held forth in the first institution of an ordinance , being part of the institution , or which were the constant lawfull actions of holy men in scripture , not civill but sacred so binde us to imitation , as that not to conforme thereunto is sinne . for the assumption to this proposition , it is plaine and naturall : but the practise of the apostles in receiving the faithfull , disciples , &c. is backed with divine precept , held forth in the first institution , and was their constant lawfull practise , agreeable to the practise of all others who were imployed in that service ; ergo , &c. . in the first consideration , you prove the seales to be the priviledge of the church in ordinary dispensation , by this passage of scripture , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but if apostles baptize by extraordinary dispensation in your sense this testimony is insufficient for that purpose . reason . our second reason . in due order , the seales belong to them to whom the grant is given , viz. baptisme to the seed of the faithfull , and the lords supper to beleevers , able to try and examine themselves : but the grant is vouchsafed to the faithfull and their seed , forgivenesse of sinnes , sanctification , adoption , and what other good things are promised in the covenant of grace are the grant or good things sealed in the sacrament . but those are granted to beleevers according to the covenant ; and they are so linked together , that under one promised all are understood ; and if one be vouchsafed , none is denied . when god promiseth to circumcise the heart , the forgivenesse of sinnes is implyed . and when circumcision is said to be the seale of the righteousnesse of faith , the circumcision of the heart by spirituall regeneration is included . to whomsoever then the spirituall gift , or inward grace of the covenant is given and granted , to them the seales of that gift and grant doth belong in their due order . but the spirituall gift or grace which is the thing signified in the sacrament , is freely granted to true beleevers , who have received the doctrine of salvation , and walk in the wayes of truth and righteousnesse , therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . to this you answer . the scope of the apostle in the place , rom. . . is not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what is the proper and adequate subject of the sacrament ; but to prove by the example of abraham that a sinner is justified before god , not by works but by faith . thus as abraham the father of the faithfull was justified before god , so must his seed be ( that is , all beleevers whether jews or gentiles , circumcised or uncircumcised ) for therefore abraham received circumcision which belonged to the jews to confirm the righteousnesse which he had before , while he was uncircumcised , that he might be the father of both : but lest any one should think his circumcision was needlesse if he was justified by faith before circumcision ; he addeth that his circumcision was of no use as a seale to confirme to him his faith , and the righteousnesse which is by faith : yet as justification is not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , but the whole covenant also made with abraham and his seed was sealed thereby ; so abraham is to be considered in using circumcision not simply , or onely as a beleever without church relation , but as a confederate beleever , and so in the state and order of a visible church . though the apostle maketh mention of the righteousnesse of faith as sealed thereby , which was not that which served for his purpose . now that circumcision also sealed the church-covenant , may appear from gen. . . , . where you may find that abraham and his seed , though beleevers , were not circumcised till god called them into church-covenant ; and there is the same reason & use of baptisme to us which serveth to seal our justification as circumcision did , yet not that alone , but also the whole covenant with all the priviledges of it , as adoption , sanctification , and fellowship with christ in affections , and the salvation of our souls , and the resurrection of our bodies . and not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers : but church-covenant cor. . . covenant also which is peculiar to confederates . according to that of the apostle , by one spirit we are baptized into one body , cor. . . and by one bodie he meaneth that particular church of corinth whereunto he writeth and saith , now ye are the body of christ , and members in particular , ver . . and ergo church-membership is required as well to the orderly partaking of baptisme as it was of circumcision . nor do we find that circumcision was administred to all that were in the covenant of grace ( as all beleevers were ) but onely to such of them as were joyned to the people of the god of abraham . melchizedech was under the covenant of grace , so was lot , so was job and his foure friends ; yet we no where read that they were circumcised , nor do beleeve they were . so that if circumcision was administred to none but those that were joyned together in abrahams familie , and to the church of god in his seed , then may not baptisme in ordinarie course be administred to any beleevers now , unlesse they be joyned to the church of christ , for parum par est ratio . but the first is true , ergo , the second also . reply . the particulars in this answer hath been examined alreadie , and might have well been passed over , because it is tedious to repeat the same things againe and againe . two things are affirmed by you . . that the scope of the apostle , rom. . . was not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what was the proper and adequate subject of a sacrament . but this weakneth no part of the argument , for if the apostle do not fully define a sacrament , nor mention every particular benefit or prerogative sealed in the sacrament ; yet he sheweth sufficiently to whom the sacraments in due order do appertaine , even to the heires of salvation , to them that are justified by faith , and walk in the steps of our father abraham . and thus we argue from the text of the apostle . they that are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant , according to gods institution . but they that are justified by faith are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant according to gods institution . if justification be not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , this is nothing to the point in hand . for the gifts of the holy ghost is not the onely thing that is sealed in baptisme : but you confesse in your answer immediately going before , that they have right to baptisme who have received the holy ghost ; and the reason is the same of justification . besides if justification be not the onely thing that is sealed in the sacrament , it is one principall thing which doth inferre the rest . for the blessings of the covenant of grace in christ are inseparable ; where one is named , others are implyed : and where one is given , no one is absolutely wanting . christ is made of god wisedome , righteousnesse , sanctification , and redemption : whom god doth justifie , them he doth sanctifie , and them he will glorifie . . the second thing you affirme is , that not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers ; but church-covenant also which is peculiar to confederates is necessarie to the participation of the seales . this sense your words must beare , or else they reach not the point in hand : but this is that which should be proved substantially , and not barely affirmed ; and which ( as we conceive ) is contrary to the first institution of the sacrament , and the lawfull practise of john the baptist , our saviour christ , his apostles , and all others who are recorded lawfully to administer the seales . in gen. . we find the first institution of circumcision recorded , and that it was the seale of the covenant to abraham and his seed , to them that were borne in his house , or bought with his money : but we find no mention of any church covenant besides the covenant of promise which god made with abraham . there is no mention of any church-order into which abrahams family was now gathered more then formerly . god gave circumcision to abraham and his seed as a seale of the righteousnesse of faith ; but that this family was first gathered into church-order as you speak we cannot beleeve , because the scripture saith it not whether lot , job , melchizedech were circumcised or not , we will not dispute ; but if they received not the seale , we cannot think the reason to be because they were not in church-order as those times required , if any such thing had been required , we cannot think that either they were ignorant of it , or that they walked against their light : but accordiug to the dispensing of those times we judge as they were visible beleevers , so they walked in that church fellowship which god prescribed ; and therefore if circumcision had been the seale of such church-covenant as you conceive , it should have been given to them no lesse then to abrahams family . but of this sufficient is said before . as for baptisme it is the seal of the whole covenant , which the passages quoted prove it to be . whether it be the seale of our fellowship which christ in affliction , and the resurrection of our bodies , we leave it to your consideration : but that it should be a seal of a church-covenant which is peculiar to confederates , that to us is very strange . that it is a solemne admission into the church of christ , and that of necessitie it must be administred in a particular societie ( though in the passage to the corinthians the mysticall bodie of christ be understood ) will easily be granted . but that it is the seale of any other covenant but the covenant of grace we cannot digest . the sacraments are of god , and we must learne of god for what end and use they were ordained . but by the institution of baptisme recorded in scripture we have learned it belongeth to the faithfull , to disciples , to them that are called of god : and as for any other covenant necessarie to the right participation of the seales , there is deep silence of it in the institution , in the lawfull and approved practise of the first dispensers of these sacred mysteries . enough hath been said to this matter alreadie , but we will conclude it with the words of that reverend author whom we have cited many times before upon occasion . afterwards ( saith he ) john the baptist walked in the same steps , and by the same rule administred baptisme in the church whereof he was a member , required of all that came to his baptisme a profession of repentance , and amendment of life for remission of sinnes whereof baptisme was a seale , and preached christ to them . this order our lord jesus christ after his resurrection established to continue in the christian churches , giving a commission to his disciples to preach the gospel to the gentiles , and to gather all such as should beleeve through the world , as a testimonie to them , that the righteousnesse of faith did belong to them also , and not to the church of the jews onely . accordingly the apostles and servants of christ were carefull to observe this rule in their administring baptisme . thus peter when he saw those three thousand souls pricked in their hearts , preached unto them concerning repentance , remission of sin , christ , the promise , baptisme , faith , amendment of life , baptised those that gladly received his word , and testified the same by joyning together in the prosession thereof . the same course philip took with the church that was gathered in samaria , where many were baptized , but none till they professed their beliefe of the gospel , and their receiving of the word of god. and therefore it is said expresly , when they beleeved philip preaching the things concerning the kingdome of god , and the name of jesus christ , they were baptised both men and women . when ananias was commanded to go and baptise paul , he objected against it at first , till the lord assured him that he was one to whom the seale of the covenant belonged , and then he went and did it . when peter and those that came with him saw that the holy ghost fell on cornelius , and those that were assembled at that time in his house , whilest he spake these words , to him give all the prophets witnesse , that through the name of jesus whosoever beleeveth on him shall receive remission of sinnes . peter demanded , can any man forbid water that these should not be baptised , which have received the holy ghost as well as we ? in this catalogue we see profession of faith and repentance required in them that were admitted to partake in the seals ; but there is not a word of church-covenant , either in the institution or administration of the seales before they were admitted to them . that christians are solemnly ingrafted into the body of christ , and into particular societies by the seales , is a truth acknowledged on all sides : but that ever it was deemed necessarie , that a christian should be a set member of a particular congregationall church before he were admitted to the seales , or that by divine institution any such thing is ordained as necessarie thereunto , that upon the grounds before mentioned we denie , and cannot account it lesse then an addition to the institution . for if the sacraments be seales of the covenant of grace , and baptisme by divine institution belong to disciples , faithfull , saints , who have gladly received the word of grace , are justified by faith , sanctified by the spirit , adopted to be the children of god by grace , and heires apparent to the kingdom of heaven ; then to debarre such from the seales , and their seed from baptisme , because they be not in church-covenant ( as you speake ) is an addition to the ordinance of grace , and many wayes injurious to the people of god. v. position . that the power of excommunication is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow must be done , though the pastors and governors and the rest of the assembly be of another minde , and that peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . answer . if the question had been , whether the power of excommunication lies in the body of the congregation , consisting of officers and members ; our answer should be affirmative , and according hereunto is also our practise , and wee hope your judgement and ours are not different herein : but seeing the question is , whether it is so in the body of the congregation , that what the major part doth allow that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and the rest of the assembly , doe dissent upon more substantiall reasons . our answer is negative , viz. that the power of excommunication is not sealed in the congregation , neither ought it to be so in any of the churches of the lord jesus , who ought not to carry matters by number of votes against god , as this position implyeth , but by strength of rule and reason according to god. the power of the apostles was not to doe things against the truth but for the truth , cor. . and not for destruction , but for edification , cor. . . and the same may be said concerning the power which god hath given to the church , and if any church among us have swerved from the rule ( which is more then we know ) we doe not allow them in such a practise , but should be ready as the lord should helpe to convince them of their sin therein . reply . this question is much mistaken , for the demand is not whether in the congregation matters should be carryed by number of votes against god , as you interpret the position , but whether the power of excommunication so lye in the body of the congregation as that sentence must proceed in externoforo , according to the vote and determination of the major part , and so whether power of admission of members doe so reside in the communitie , as that they must be refused whom the major part refuse , though the pastors and governors and part of the congregation be of another judgement , and he admitted whom the major part doth approve . and though the church hath received no power against god , but for god , yet in the execution of the power no doubt the members of that church may be of different judgements and affections , wherein the one side or other doth erre , and is deceived . now the question hereupon moved is , whether the power of the keyes be so given and committed to the society of the faithfull , as that in externall court that act or sentence must stand and be in force which the greater part shall determine amongst them which hold the power of the keyes to be given to the church . some a distinguish betwixt the power it self which they give to the church , and the execution and exercise of it , which they confine to the presbytery : b others give the power of the keyes with the exercise thereof to the whole body of the church , or if in the dispensation they attribute any thing to the officers , it is but as servants of the church , from whom they derive their authoritie . by church also some understand the communitie of the faithfull , together with their officers and guides . and here lyeth the stone at which they of the seperation stumble , and which we conceive to be your judgement and practise , wherein we required your plaine answer , with your reasons , but have received no satisfaction . you referre us to mr. parkers reasons to prove the power of the keyes to belong to the whole church , who are of farre different judgement from mr. parker in the point it selfe . and if your judgement and practise be according to that of the seperation ( which we feare ) you dissent from him , and we cannot but dissent from you upon these considerations . . no power agreeth to the multitude or communitie of the faithfull , but that which is given them of the lord by his positive law ; for the whole spirituall power for the gathering and government of his church is given to christ as mediator . and if the power of the keyes be derived from , and communicated by christ unto his church , of necessitie it must draw its originall from divine positive law , and can agree to none but as it is communicated . but the communicated power of the keyes with the execution thereof , christ hath not given immediately to the whole multitude , but to some persons and officers designed and appointed thereunto . peruse the severall passages of scripture , wherein power and authoritie of preaching the gospel , administring the sacraments , binding and loosing is given to the church : and it is apparent that distinct severall persons are spoken of , and not the whole communitie ; goe teach all nations , and baptize them , &c. whose sinnes yee remit , they are remitted , &c. feed my lambes , feed my sheepe , &c. were these things spoken to the whole communitie , or to speciall persons ? . if christ gave this power to the communitie , was it from the beginning of the church , or tooke it effect after the churches were planted and established by the apostles . not the first , for then the apostles themselves should derive their power from the communitie and societie of the faithfull , which they did not , but from christ immediately , both in respect of gifts and graces , their calling it selfe , and the designation of their persons . it is said the power of the keyes given to the apostles was given to the church , in tuitu ejusdem tanquam finis & totius . and it is true the apostles were given to the church , and the power they received was for the good of the whole ; but this is not enough . that power may be said to be received immediately by the church , as the first receptacle of it , and from it derived to others . but this power must be in the communitie as the first subject , from whom it commeth to the officers . as the power of seeing is not onely given in tuitu hominis , as the end of it , and the totum to whom it agreeth , but is in homine as the first subject from which it commeth to the eyes . the apostles and other governors were given of christ for the church as for their end , and all their authoritie was given unto them for the church as for the whole : but the authoritie it selfe was immediately derived from christ , and is not in the church as the immediate subject , nor derived from the church , but from christ the king of the church . the authoritie of governors is given of christ for a gift to the church , but not for a gift absolute , that it may reside in the power of the whole church , to whom it is given , but for a conditionall gift communicated to the governors themselves for the good of the whole . it is one thing then to aske for what end or use the keyes are given , another to whom . to every one is given the declaration of the spirit for profit , i. e. for the good of the church . but was this gift given to the communitie of the faithfull first and immediately ? no ; by gift and possession it was given to some , but for use and profit it was publick . after the churches were established it tooke not effect ; for then it must be shewed where christ committed the power of god , first to the apostles , and after to the communitie of the faithfull . but that is no where to be found in holy scripture . the ministers and guides of the church were immediately of jesus christ , from whom immediately they derive their power and authoritie , by whom they are set over their charge , in whose name they must execute their office , whose stewards , legates and ambassadors they are , and unto whom they must give an account . yea , pastorship is the gift of christ no lesse then apostleship , and that the more because it is perpetuall in the church ; every pastor is not immediately called , but the office and order of pastors , the calling , authoritie and jurisdiction is immediately from christ , and not from the church : the steward is appointed of the master of the family alone , and hath all his authoritie and jurisdiction from him : every ambassador in the cause of his ambassage doth immediately depend upon him from whom he is sent . but if the function , order and authoritie of pastors and teachers , be immediately from christ , then it is not received from the church as the immediate receptacle . thus protestant divines dispute against papists . if bishops receive their power and authority of exercising immediately from christ , by mandate , mission , and commission from him , then they derive it not from the pope . and if presbyters receive their order jurisdiction and power of execution from christ by his mandate and commission , then they receive it not from the bishop . and by the same reason , if the power of the keyes be the immediate gift of christ to his ministers , then they derive not their power and authoritie from the people . it is usually objected that the church cannot convey what she never had , but the people may elect their pastor . whereunto the answer is direct and plaine . nothing can give that which it had not formally or virtually , unlesse it give it as an instrument ministring to one who hath it , but so it may give what it never had , nor is capable of . a steward may give all the offices in his masters house , as ministerially executing his masters pleasure . electors have not evermore authoritie over him whom they elect : but power and authoritie onely to apply that power to him whom they choose . the power and authoritie whereunto a minister is elected , is not in the people that elect him , but from christ the king and head of his church , who out of power doth conferre that office upon him . if we consider what men give , or give not universally , it must be deemed that any men can make ministers , because they give not the office , gifts , or authoritie , which are from christ alone . . if ecclesiasticall and spirituall power be in the multitude and community of the faithfull , the church doth not onely call , but make officers out of power and vertue received into her selfe , and then should the church have a true lordlike power in regard of her ministers . for as he that will derive authority to the church maketh himselfe lord of the church : so if the church derive authoritie to the ministers of christ , she maketh herself lady and mistris over them in the exercise of that authoritie over them . for all men know it is the property of the lord and master to impart authoritie . did the church give power and authoritie to the pastors and teachers , she might make the sacraments and preaching which one doth in order no sacraments , no preaching . for it is the order instituted of god that gives being and efficacie to these ordinances . and if the power of ruling , feeding , and dispensing the holy things of god , do reside in the faithfull , the word and sacraments in respect of dispensation and efficacie shall depend upon the order and institution of the societie . if the power of the keyes be derived from the community of the faithfull , then are officers immediately and formally servants to the church , and must do every thing in the name of the church , rule , feed , bind , loose , remit and retaine sinnes , preach and administer the sacraments , then they must performe their office according to the direction of the church more or lesse , seldome or frequent , remisse or diligent . for from whom are they to receive direction how to carry themselves in their office but from him or them from whom they receive their office , whose works they do , and from whom they expect their reward ? if their power and office be of god immediately , they must do the duties of their place according to his designement , and to be accountable unto god : but if their power and function be from the church , the church must give account unto god , and the officers unto the church whom she doth take to be her helpers . if it be said that god will have the church to chuse officers to execute the power committed unto her . the answer is , either god will have her elect officers of his designement to do his work according to that power which he shall give them , and by his direction , and then they are god servants , and not the churches , and receive their charge and function immediately from god , and not from the people : or he leaveth it to the arbitriment of the church , to chuse according to their pleasure such as must receive charge and authoritie from her . and then they must execute their office in her name so as shall seeme good unto the church , and neither longer nor otherwise . for if the ministers of the church be subject to god and christ by the intervention of the people onely , they have it from them , and not from god : but they preach or administer the sacraments , rule , or feed , and if they depend immediately upon the faithfull , viz. two or three gathered together in covenant , they must draw what in order they are to preach unto them in the name of the lord ; for from him must the ambassadour learne his arrand from whom he receiveth his commission . we forbeare to presse the a confessions and reasons of such as maintaine this opinion , that the officers of christ be both of and for the people , and that in relation as the officers are called servants , the church may be called lord. . moreover if the power of the keyes be given first and immediately to the community of the faithfull , what reason can be alledged why in defect of officers the church might not rule , governe , feed , bind , loose , preach and administer the sacraments , or if any faile in any office , why she might not supply that want by her power . for the power of the keyes doth containe , both authority and exercise , power being given to this end , that it might be exercised as it is vouchsafed . but the church when she is destitute of officers , cannot exercise those acts of rule , nor by her power supply the want of any officer . onely she hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . for these reasons ( not to insist on any more ) we judge the multitude or community of the faithfull not to be the immediate receptacle of ecclesiasticall authoritie , and so the power of excommunication not to belong to them . if consent of the churches of god be asked in this point ( to omit others ) the churches of scotland speake fully and expresly for us , in the second book of disci . cap. . the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions in the congregation of them that professe the truth , hath a certain power granted by god according to which , it useth a proper jurisdiction and government exercised to the comfort of the whole flocke . power is an ecclesiasticall authority granted by god the father through the mediator jesus christ unto his kirke , gathered , and having its ground in the word of god , and to be put in execution by them unto whom the spirituall government of the church by lawfull calling is committed . the policie of the kirke flowing from this power is an order or spirituall forme of government which is exercised by the members appointed thereto by the word of god , and therefore is given immediately to the office-bearers by whom it is exercised to the weale of the whole body . vt universam scripturam evolvat d. erastus , nunquam tamen inventurum verba ligandi , & solvendi aliis quam publico ministerio fungentibus , & quidem met aphoricè , divinae videlicet & spiritualis potestatis respectu , tribui . sunt enim judicialia haec verba . &c. beza de presb. p . see helvet . conf . ca. . sect. nunc ergo , &c. belgic . confess . art . . argentinens . conf . art . . bohem. confes . art . vi. position . that none are to be admitted as members but they must promise not to depart or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . answer . our answer hereto is briefly this . we judge it expedient and most according to rule , that such brethren as are in covenant with the church , and ours as fellow-members , and have committed their soules to our charge as ministers , should not forsake our fellowship , nor obruptly breake away from us when and whither they please ; but first approve themselves therein to their brethrens consciences , and take their counsell in so weightie a matter . for which we propound to confider these two reasons following . the former is drawne from the nature of the church-covenant , which consists in these foure particulars . . every member at his admission doth openly professe , and solemnly promise , that by christs helpe assisting , he will not onely in generall give up himselfe ( as to the lord to be guided by him , so ) to the church according to god to be directed by it , which is no more then the members of the church of macedonia , did in a parallel case , cor. . . but also in particular , that he will performe all duties of brotherly love and faithfulnesse to all the members of the body , as of diligent watchfulnesse over all his brethren , thereby to prevent sin , so of faithfull admonition after their falls to regaine them to the lord , from their sinne , the former being injoyned , hebr. . . and the want thereof deeply condemned in cain , that would not acknowledge that duty of being his brothers keeper , gen. . . the latter given in charge to the church-members of israel by the hand of moses , levit. . . and so by christ himself , matth. . . and by paul also to the galat. c. . , . secondly , the ingagements are not made onely by the members admitted into the church , but by the church back again to the member . so that thereby the whole church in generall , and every member thereof in particular , stand as well in conscience bound to performe all duties of love and watchfulnesse to him , as he doth to them ; and this we do according to the golden rule of love and equitie injoyned by our saviour , matth. . . fearing that contrary practise of scribes and pharisees so much condemned by christ , of laying greater burthens upon others , then we our selves are willing to undergo . matth. . . . these promises thus lawfully and mutually made , that member , as also the whole church , are bound not onely every one for himselfe , actively to performe them , but passively also to suffer his brethren to do those offices upon and towards himself : if he neglect the former , he shall falsifie his covenant so solemnly before god , angels , and men made , and so not onely breake promise to his brother , contrary to psal . . . but also in some sort commit the sinne of ananias and saphira in lying against the holy ghost , condemned and punished severely by gods own hand , act. . . . . if he faile in the latter , he shall not onely be guiltie of the same sinne of breach of covenant with god and man as in the former ; but shall also be guilty of this folly of despising counsell so much condemned , prov. . . and . . and shall also proclaime this his folly and pride by shewing to all the church that he is wise in his own eyes , and leanes to his own wisedome both reproved , prov. . . and . . seeing need of no further light to be held forth by his brethren , then what he apprehends himselfe , which is one of the greatest properties of folly . . from all these things premised , it appears that we can do no lesse ( and yet we do no more ) then require a member before he depart according to our covenant thus lawfully , deliberately , and mutually made , to expresse to his brethren his desire of departing , and the place and societie to which he tends , whether to a godly church where he may be edified ; or to some corrupt assembly where he may be destroyed . and . his grounds and reasons which move him so to do , which if they hold good being scanned by the word , he may be not onely confirmed in his way by the consent and advise of many , but counselled also how to manage his departure for his best comfort . and so after all , solemnly with the whole churches prayers , and blessings in the name of christ dismissed : but if his grounds either be none at all , or weake and sinfull , and that his desire of departing savours of self-will , inordinate love of gaine , rash precipitancie , or a spirit of schisme , more strongly then of sound reason , then what can we do lesse without breach of covenant , then in love and tendernesse shew him his weaknesse , disswade him from his purpose , and refuse to consent . yet if after all this we see his spirit stedfastly and stiffely bent for a departure , then though we dare not act against our light by consenting or counselling , yet if his finne be not apparent , and danger eminent , we use rather ( through indulgence in cases of like nature ) to suspend our vote against him , as not willing against his will to detain him , abhorring to make our churches places of restraint and imprisonment . but if any should object that this argument holds firme where this church-covenant is allowed to be lawfull , but with some it is questioned , and with them it avails not . ans . some indeed have questioned the necessitie of our church-covenant , but none ( we hope ) of these our reverend brethren that we write unto do question the lawfulnesse of such a covenant being nothing else for the matter of it , but a promise of doing such christian duties as the gospel of christ requires of all saints in church-estate ; for we doe not herein promise to performe any new dutie to our brethren which was not before commanded us of the lord , but onely revive and renew our purposes afresh of performing such duties unto that particular body into which we are then incorporated as were before injoyned in the word , as to love each other , and to watch over each other out of love for their good , to be ready to give counsell to , and to take counsell from each other , to prevent sinne in them , or to gaine them from sinne . all which are plentifully and frequently held forth in the scriptures ; for the defect of which care and watchfulnesse , all the body shall be wrapt in the same guilt & punishment with the member that commits the sinne , as the whole church of israel was in achans sinne and punishment . secondly , it s a thing very reasonable , and a knowne fundamentall rule in all societies , that he that is incorporate thereto , and so participates of the priviledges thereof , should ingage himselfe to conforme to all such lawfull rites and orders as are expedient for the well being of that societie , the contrary whereto will be a thing injurious in him to offer , and confusion to themselves to accept . the second ground is drawne from the necessitie that may fall upon the body if every particular member should depart at his owne pleasure . for as every societie , so much more a church of saints , both from principles of nature and christianitie also , not onely lawfully may , but in dutie are bound to endeavour the preservation of it selfe , and ergo timely to foresee and wisely to prevent all such things as would bring destruction to it selfe . now if any member might , when , whither , and wherefore he please without consent of the church depart away from it , this may by unavoydable consequence dissipate the whole ; for if one man may so depart , why may not another also , though never so usefull in that body , and whose absence might much shake the well-being of it : and if one why not two , six , ten , twent● as well ? for where will yee stop seeing any may plead the same libertie , and if members may so doe why not the pastor and teacher also ? seeing they are tyed to him by the same relation that he is to them , and so the principalls falling , the whole building must downe : and if this may be so in one church , why not in all , and so christ should have no setled church on earth . reply . it is one thing abruptly to breake away when and whither they please , and forsake fellow-ship , another thing not to depart or remove habitation , unlesse the congregation will give leave . also it is one thing mutually to compound and agree not to depart from each other without consent and approbation , another to require a promise of all that be admitted into societie , that they shall not depart without the churches allowance . if such a promise be required of all members to be admitted , we cannot discerne upon what grounds your practise is warranted . first , you exclude all such as be not set members from the sacrament of the supper , and their children from baptisme , and yet hinder them from entrance into church societie , because they cannot promise continuance in the place where they are resident for the present . here we desire to be satisfied from the word of god by what you require it . did the apostles ever stipulate with such as desired to be baptized , that they must abide in particular societie , and not remove thence without approbation from the church ? or did they deny the seales unto them , because they could not make any such promise ? was it ever heard of in the church of god from the beginning thereof unto this day , that any such thing was propounded unto , or required of , members to be admitted into church-fellowship ? that church covenant which is necessary was not in use in the apostles times , but the covenant they entred into bound no man to this condition for ought we reade . they did not prescribe it , no church ever yet covenanted it as necessary to the preservation of the body . secondly , it pertaines not to the whole congregation to take notice of , be acquainted with , or judge of the cause of every particular members removall . may not a servant remove from his master to another congregation ? or the father bestow his sonne or daughter in marriage to one of another congregation , but the whole church must be called to councell in this matter ? if the assembly once grow to be populous , of necessitie they must be negligent in , or weary of such an heavy taske ; and for the present , for every one to challenge so much authoritie over other is usurpation . let it be shewed that ever by divine right this power was committed to the church , and then we will confesse it to be expedient and necessary . but till then we thinke the church is over ridged in exacting such a condition of the members , and the members themselves goe beyond their measure as busi-bodies in other mens matters , and things whereof they are not well able to judge many times , if they arrogate such power unto themselves wee allow not rashnesse , or precipitancy , pride or self-conceitednesse , we know it is meete that weightie matters should be mannaged by councell , but it is not necessary to bring every particular thing to the whole church . in the multitude of councellors there is peace , but over many councellors oft causeth distraction , and different apprehensions breed delayes . the nature of your church-covenant , as you describe it , inferreth not a necessitle of bringing every such businesse unto the church ; for you binde your selves mutually to watch over one another , and in love to admonish one another in the lord , to prevent sinne and to encourage in well-doing , as it concerneth every man within the limits of his place and calling . but this essentially tyeth not any man to a perpetuall residence in one place , for then even occasionall absence should be a breach of covenant , unlesse it be by consent and approbation of the church . you say in your covenant you promise to performe no new dutie to your brethren which was not before commanded of the lord , but onely revive and renew your purposes afresh of performing such duties to that particular body into which you are then to be incorporated , as were before injoyned in the word . but in the word of truth , it is not commanded either expresly or by consequent , that no member of a congregation should remove , or occasionally be absent from the place of his habitation , before he have acquainted the church whither he goeth , and upon what occasions , and whether the place be dangerous , where he is likely to be infected ; or safe , where he may be edified . these things are matters of weight and to be undertaken with advice , but the knowledge thereof belongeth not to every particular member of the societie . and the church shall burden her selfe above measure if she take upon her to intermeddle in all such occasions . neither is it safe to commit the determination of such matters ever to the vote of the multitude , or weight of reasons , as they shall apprehend the matter . and if such businesse must be determined on the lords day , and to goe before the administration of the word , sacraments , and almes , least the holy things be polluted by notorious obstinate offenders , wee feare the time appointed for the exercise of religion shall be prophaned with unseasonable disputes . instances might be alledged , if it were a matter to be insisted upon . as for the covenant it selfe which you mutually enter into , if therein you exact nothing but what god requires both for tryall and stipulation , far be it that we should disallow it , but if yee constraine men to meddle with things that belong not to them , and winde them up higher then god would , and straine every thing to the pitch that you seeme here to doe in this branch a godly and sober minde may well pause before he make such promise . all members of the church are not equally necessary to the preservatiō of the whole body ; & if to the removall of some , it were expedient to have the cōsent , not only of the whole society , but of neighbouring societies , ministers especially , it is very much to draw this to the removall or abode of every particular member . and if any man shall not intermeddle with every businesse of this kinde , as questioning whether it doth belong to him or no , or not aske the advice of the whole societie , as knowing the most to be unfit to counsell in such a case , doth he break his covenant therein , and so commit a sinne in a sort like the sinne of ananias and saphira ? judge your selves if in other cases you would not censure this to be an high incroachment upon christian libertie , and a strict binding of mens consciences by humane constitutions . may you not expect to heare from your own grounds that herein you have devised an expedient , or necessary rite or custome to preserve the unitie , and prevent the dissolution of the body , which never came into the minde of the lord jesus , the saviour of the church , and that in so doing ( if your exposition will hold good ) you breake the second commandement . rites and customes expedient to prevent confusion for the time , let them be observed as customes expedient , and what god requires in the examination or admission of members , let that take place according to the presidents given in the scriptures , and the constant practise of the universall church in the purest times . but to presse customes onely expedient for the time , as standing rules necessary at all times , and for all persons , to put that authoritie into the hands of men which god never put upon them , to oblige men to intermeddle further in the affaires of men , then the word doth warrant , to binde the conscience , and that under so heavy a penalty as the sinne of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound it , and to debarre known and approved christians from the seales of the covenant , because they cannot promise as setled members to abide and stay in the societie , unlesse they shall obtaine leave of the congregation to depart , and to charge them in the meane season to be men , who against light refuse subjection to the gospel ; this is that which we cannot approve , which yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement , and desire to be resolved of in your practise . and here we intreat leave to put you in minde of that which you have considered already , schil . that the church and every member thereof hath entred into covenant , either expresly or implicitely to take god for their god , and to keepe the words of the covenant and doe them , to seeke the lord with all their hearts , and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse : but we never finde that they were called to give account of the worke of grace wrought in their soules , or that the whole congregation were appointed to be judge thereof . you stand all of you this day ( saith moses ) before the lord your god , &c. that thou shouldst enter into covenant with the lord thy god. all the people that were borne in the wildernesse joshua circumcised , but it is incredible to thinke that among that great multitude , there was not one who did not give good testimony of the worke of grace in his soule : we reade often times that israel after some grievous fall and revolt , renewed their covenant , to walke with god , to serve him onely , and to obey his voyce , as in the dayes of joshua , the judges , david , samuel : also joash , josiah , and nehemiah , &c. but no particular enquiry was made , what worke of grace god had wrought in the hearts of every singular person . but the confession and profession of obedience was taken . when john baptist began to preach the gospel , and gather a new people for christ , he admitted none to baptisme but upon confession of their sinnes ; but we reade of no question that he put forth unto them to discover the worke of grace in their soules , or repelled any that voluntarily submitted themselves upon that pretence . it appeareth many wayes that when the apostles planted churches , they made a covenant between god and the people whom they received . but they received men upon the profession of faith , and promise of amendment of life , without strict in quirie what sound work of grace was wrought in the soul . in after ages , strangers from the covenant were first instructed in the faith , and then baptised upon the profession of faith , and promise to walk according to the covenant of grace . now the profession at first required of all that were received to baptisme was that they beleeved in the father , sonne , and holy ghost . this was the confession of the eunuch when he was baptised , i beleeve that jesus christ is the sonne of god. the creed is honoured of the ancients with glorious titles , as the rule of faith , the summe of faith , the body of faith , the perswasions of faith : but by the creed they understand that rule of faith , and law of faith , and institution of christ which was then given when he was about to ascend into heaven , and commanded his disciples , saying , go teach all nations , &c. it is true , that in after times as occasion required some other articles were added as explanations of the former , to meet with the heresies of the times which began to trouble the church . but for substance of matter in things to be beleeved , the church never required other acknowledgement of them that were to be received into the congregation of christs flock , and admitted into her communion . and for things to be done , or the practicall part , she requireth of them that were to be received to baptisme an abrenuntiation of the devill , the world , and the flesh , with all their sinfull works and lusts . the first principles then of the doctrine of christ being received , and the foresaid profession being made , the apostles , and the church following the example of the apostles , never denied baptisme unto such as sought or desired it . if this be the covenant that members admitted into church-fellowship do enter into , and this be all you require of them whom you receive , you have the practise of the apostles , and the whole church in after ages for your president . but if you proceed further then thus , and put men to declare what worke of grace god hath wrought in their soul , in this or that way , which perhaps is not determined by the word of grace , at least not agreed upon among your selves , we beseech you consider by what authority you do it , and upon what grounds you stand . but we will enter no further upon this matter , because it comes not within the compasse of these positions , and to attribute so much to private letters , as to make them the ground of another dispute we may not . vii . position . that a minister is so a minister of a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him , he ceaseth to be a minister . answer . our answer to this consists in two branches . . in case a minister be set aside by the church meerly through his own default . . by the churches default without any desert of his . in the former case it is evident he ceaseth to be a minister to them any longer , as appears in foure conclusions . . it is cleare from the word , that a pastor or teacher in these dayes hath no apostolicall power over all churches , but onely limited to that one church where god hath set him . paul gives not the elders at ephesus a generall commission to go teach all churches , but to go feed that one flock over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . act. . . so peter gives direction to elders to feed that flock of god onely which was among them , and take the over-sight thereof . pet. . . . it is as cleare that all this power of feeding which the minister hath in that church is nextly derived to him from christ by the church , who hath solemnly called him to the work , and promised to obey him therein : for if he have it elsewhere , it must be either from christ immediately , or from some other men deputed by christ to conferre it on him , or he must take it up of himselfe . not the first , for that was proper to the apostles or apostolicall men , therefore paul proving his apostleship , saith he was called not of men , nor by men , but by jesus christ himself . gal. . . not the second , for we never read in gods word that any ordinary officers , or other besides the church , that had any commission given them from christ to call ministers unto churches . not the third , for no man taketh this honour , viz. of a priest under the law , or of a minister under the gospel , but he that is called of god , hebr. . . therefore it must needs be from christ by the church . . as the church in the name of christ gave this power to a minister to be what he is , and do what he doth amongst them : when such a minister shall make and manifest himself apparently , unworthy , and unfit to discharge the place , which they thus called him unto , so that they may discerne that christ the head of the church hath refused him , from being a minister unto him , they may then upon as good grounds depose him from it , as they called him to it . . when a church hath thus in christs name put forth this power of shutting , as before it did of opening to a minister , then he must cease to be a minister unto them any more , for we know no such indelible character imprinted upon a minister , that the ministery ceasing , the minister ceaseth also . . in case the church shall without cause , or sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , and whom they so solemnly called , and promised before the lord to submit unto , and so abuse their power given them by christ ; it is doubtlesse a very great wrong unto the minister , and sinne against christ himselfe before whom it was done ; and not onely christ himself will take it ill at their hands , for such contempt done to him in his ministers according to christs speech , luke . . he that rejecteth you , rejecteth me . and gods speech , sam. . . they have not cast off thee but me . but even other churches also may admonish them . and if they prove obstinate therein , withdraw the right hand of fellowship from them ; and concerning the minister himself thus deposed , seeing it is done not by christ , but by the church without christ , yea against the mind of christ , we conceive though he be by them deprived of the execution of his ministery among them , yet untill he accepts of a call to another people , he doth yet still remain a minister of christ , in whose account ( notwithstanding such deposition ) he hath true right of administration among that people . reply . the question is of ministers unjustly forsaken , or driven from the church or congregation : and your answer is for the most part of ministers set aside or deprived through their own default . we never purposed to speak one word for any unworthy minister whom christ hath put out of office , and therefore your labour to prove that such justly rejected by the church are no longer ministers might well have been saved . but sitting them aside , we will in few words examine your conclusions upon which you bind the certainty of that sentence you passe against them . first , it is certain and clear from the word , that a pastor or teacher neither in these dayes hath , nor in any other age of the church , ought to have apostolicall power over all churches . the apostles had onely power to serve the church with the personall service of their apostleship . but pastorall power of ordinarie ministers or teachers they never had : and if the apostles had not the power of ordinarie ministers , much lesse can pastors receive the power of apostles , for christ gave both the one and the other order . but as the apostles were not pastors of that church to which they preached , and among whom they continued for some space ; no more do pastors become apostles if they preach the word , or dispence the sacraments to another flock or people beside their own , whereof they have the speciall oversight . but of this matter we have spoken before , and of the texts of scripture here alledged , therefore we will not repeat what hath been said alreadie : onely it seemeth somewhat strange , that you should cite those texts of scripture , as if the apostle had said , feed one flock , or feed that flock of god onely . for we find the word ( one ) or ( onely ) neither in the text expresly , nor in the sense for which it is here alledged , viz. as if he might not perform any ministeriall act in another congregation upon any occasion whatsoever . secondly , the power of feeding which the minister hath is neither confined to one societie onely , nor nextly derived to him from christ by the church . the office and authoritie of a pastor is immediately from christ . the deputation of the person which christ hath designed is from the church ministerially , but neither virtually nor formally . the consent of the people is requisite in the election of pastors and teachers we grant , the direction of the elders going before or along with them ; but the authoritie , office , and gift of a pastor is not from the people or elders , but from christ alone . when an apostle was to be chosen in the place of judas , act. . , . no one had the handling of that businesse , but peter declared unto the brethren present , what an one ought to be taken , and they present two , whereof one was elected by lot . in this example somethings are extraordinarie , for one onely was to be chosen , and that immediately by god himselfe : and somethings ordinarie for our imitation . for if peter would do nothing without consent of the disciples , thenmay not ordinarie elections be passed without consent and approbation of the church , but it is not a popular election , not governed by the fore-direction of elders , which is concluded from this passage of scripture : but a church election by the free consent , and judgement of the faithfull with the fore-leading of the presbyterie . when deacons were to be chosen , act. . . . in the church of jerusalem , it was done by the consent of the church . the mutinie of the hellenists against the hebrews occasioned that election , but was no cause why it was made by free consent . the apostles shew what persons must be chosen , and who ever thought the church was left at libertie to chuse as she please without direction . but in this election the people did first chuse , the apostles onely directing whom the people ought to make choice of : when most commonly the apostles instructed the people , and went before them in the election , and they consented . act. . . the apostles by consent chose elders , and so in every matter of great importance belonging directly to the whole bodie of the church , whether severally in one congregation , or joyntly in many , the consent of the faithfull by observation of the apostles was required . act. . . and . . and . . cor. . . but in the primitive times after the apostles , one church might elect and chuse a pastor for another . as ignatius exhorts the phyladelphians , that they would elect a pastor for the church of antioch . and so when the east church was infected with arrianisme , basil . epist . . . . thought it a fit meanes to remove the heresie , if the bishops of italie being sent thither did condemne the heresie , and he imploreth the aid of the bishops of italy , france , and all the east . cyprian saith , all bishops sunt mutuae concordiae glutine copulati : that if any hold heresie the rest should help . it would be too long to reckon up examples which in this case might be produced . if here it be questioned whether your election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a minister : we answer . . a thing is essentiall two wayes . first , as absolutely necessarie , so that the thing can have no existence without it . secondly , as necessarie to the integritie of the thing , so that it is maimed without it . againe , either the people be few in number , and simple apt to be led aside , unable to judge of the sufficiencie of their minister , or they be more in number , increased in wisdome , sound in faith , and able to discern betwixt things that differ . in the first sense the election of the people is not necessary or essentiall ; but in the second we cannot say he is no minister that is not chosen by the people , but his calling in that respect is maimed . if the people be few and simple , apt to be deceived , they stand in more need of guidance and direction , both from their own elders , and other churches . if the people be many in number , full of wisdome and understanding , their libertie to choose is the greater ; and it is the greater wrong to be deprived of it . the practise of the apostles and the primitive churches for many ages will confirme this ; for sometimes men were propounded to the church to be chosen : sometimes the choice was wholly left to them : and was not that for our direction , that more libertie is given where the danger is lesse , and more restraint and caution used where the danger is more apparent , that if they be left to themselves , either an ill or unfit choice will be made ? in reason this is evident , for the childs consent is required in marriage , but the more able he is to choose for himselfe , the more libertie may parents grant , the lesse able , the more watchfull must they be ; and so in this businesse . brotherly societie requires that we mutually exhort , admonish , reprove and comfort each other as occasion requires , and as need requires . it is a dutie of neighbour-churches to lend their helpe to their brethren in the choice and election of their minister . when the scripture willeth that one should admonish another , it is not onely a command to every singular man towards his fellow , but also to any whole company too : another societie bellarmine asketh , quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi elegere potest ? junius answereth ; certe charitatis jure & communione sanctorum . and paul when he teacheth that all the faithfull are members of one mysticall body of christ , who ought to have a mutuall care one of another , laid the foundation of this policie . it is a blemish in the calling of a minister , if either the people be not fit to choose , or being fit they be shut forth from the choice , but this maime doth not make a nullitie in his calling ; for in every true church where the word is preached and received , and the sacraments for substance rightly administred , there is a true and lawfull ministery , and a true and lawfull calling of that ministery , though in some things defective . in the church of god all sound and saving truth is to be found , for it is the pillar and ground of truth , and where the true profession of all saving truth , with the right use of the sacraments for substance is to be found , there is the church , which ordinarily cannot be had , maintained and continued without a lawfull ministery , nor that without a calling . the saving truth of god & a lawfull ministery , are both essentiall to a true church . something of this remaines in every compleat societie that hath any thing of the church ; and for essence and substance they are true in every true , lawfull , compleat societie . the profession of the truth may be true and sound in all necessary and fundamentall points , though mixed with diverse errors , and the ministery for truth and substance lawfull , though many wayes deficient . in the true church there is a true ministery , but the true church hath continued there by the blessing of god , where the election of ministers hath been given away by the people , or taken from them . in the primitive church , when the people had a voyce in the choice of their pastor , oftentimes there were factions in the church , the people stood against their guides and challenged the whole power of election to themselves . sometimes they were divided among themselves . sometimes they gave away their power , at least in part , and sometimes ministers were set over them without their councell and advice , whose ministery notwithstanding was not reputed voyde and of none effect . if it be objected that many things were amisse in those primitive elections , what will follow thence , but that the ministery may be lawfull and good , where there be many wants in the manner of calling ? if this be not granted , what shall be done when the people and their elders be divided in the choice of a fit officer . if the people prevaile against their elders , he whom they choose is no minister to them , because not chosen by their suffrages : if the elders against the people , he whom they approve is no minister unto theirs , because not chosen by their suffrage ; and so if there be dissention they must seperate from , or excommunicate one another , because he is no minister to the one whom the others approve . the orthodox pastors did professe , so that the donatists would returne to the true and apostolicall doctrine , they would not disallow their bishops , that they might understand that catholiques did not detest christian consecration ( as augustine speakes ) by humane error . the high priesthood was bought and sold for money , and sometimes made annuall , and every yeare new high priests created , sicut isti praefecti quos singulis annis promutant reges , as sol : jarchi saith . that as every man would lay out more or lesse money , he should get or lose the priesthood , which may be seene in the examples of jason or menelaus . neverthelesse , so long as the jewes continued the true church of god , the priesthood was true also . the reformed churches who have seperated from the abhominations of rome , professe the first reformers among them received some ordinary calling in the romane synagogue . they that thinke the basest of rome , will acknowledge baptisme unduely administred by priests or jesuites , to be for substance the holy sacrament of christ . and if the baptisme of god may be derived from the ministery , it is no absurditie to thinke that the first seekers of reformation derived authoritie from christ to preach the word and administer the sacraments by them , as stewards used of god to set them in that office : for the seekers of reformation derived their authoritie from god , and that which is instituted by christ , is not made voyde by the corruptions of men . the third and fourth consideration we will passe over , because from what hath been spoken , it is easie to understand in what sense they may be admitted , and in what denyed , and we have no desire to trouble you with the examination of that which falleth not into question . as for the second branch of your answer , that in case the church shall without cause , or without sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , yet he still remaines a minister of christ ( untill he accepts of a call from another people ) in whose account , notwithstanding such depositions , he hath true right of administring among that people : we know not well your meaning ; if this be your minde that a minister lawfully called and set over one congregation , is to be esteemed a minister in the usuall church , as the particular church hath unitie with , and is part of the universall or catholique : and as a partie baptized is not baptized into that particular congregation onely , but into all churches ; and that the ministery is one , cujus à singulis in solidum pars tenetur , as cyprian speakes ; and therefore though the minister be unjustly cast off by one congregation , yet he is not to be esteemed as no minister , we freely consent . but if your meaning be that he is onely by right a minister of that particular congregation , because unjustly deposed , as formerly in the execution of his office he was a minister to them onely , and to none other societie whatsoever , or in what respect soever ; your opinion is contrary to the judgement and practise of the universall church , and tendeth to destroy the unitie of the church , and that communion which the churches of god may and ought to have one with another ; for if he be not a minister in other churches , then are not the churches of god one , nor the ministers one , nor the flocke which they feed one , nor the communion one which they have each with other . and if the pastor derive all his authoritie to feede from the church , when the church hath set him aside , what right hath he to administer among that people . if they erre in their deposition , it is true they sinne against christ . but as they give right to an unworthy man to administer among them , if they call him unjustly , so they take right from the worthy if wrongsully they depose him . the minister is for his ministery the office for the execution , and so the pastor and the flocke are relatives : and therefore if their election gave him authoritie among them to seed , their casting him off hath stripped him of the same power which formerly they gave him . and his ministery ceasing , he should cease to be their minister , if he stood as minister onely to that congregation in every respect . whit. depont . q. . sec. . pa. . certe lex naturae & ratio clamitat cujus est instituere ejus est destruere , sive destituere , ad quem institutio pertinet ad eundem destitationem , seu destructionem pertinere . rob. aga . b. p. . if the congregation may chuse and elect their governours , then they may refuse and reprobate them . viii . position . that one minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . answer . if you take ministeriall act improperly as sometimes it is taken by some , onely when the minister of one church doth exercise his gifts of praying and preaching in another church , being by themselves so desired . then we answer , in this sense a minister of one church may do a ministeriall act in another , which he doth not perform by vertue of any calling , but onely by his gifts ; and thus upon any occasion we mutually perform those acts one in anothers churches : but if you meane by ministeriall act , such an act of authoritie and power in dispensing of gods ordinance as a minister doth perform to the church , whereunto he is called to be a minister ; then we deny that he can so perform any ministeriall act to any other church but his own , because his office extends no further then his call . for that solemne charge , act. . . is not to feed all flocks , but that one flock onely , over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . if the question were propounded to any minister so exercising in an others church , which was once to our saviour by the chief priests and elders : by what power doest thou these things , and who gave thee this authoritie ? let that minister whosoever he be , study how to make an answer . reply . the preaching of the word , publick prayer in the congregation met together solemnly to worship god , and the administration of the sacraments , are acts properly ministeriall ( if any other ) to be performed by power and authoritie from christ , as you acknowledge , for the preaching of the word , and dispensation of the seales in your second consideration . but these acts one minister may performe in another congregation , or towards the members of another church . you know by whom your question hath been propounded touching one ministers exercising in another ministers church , and how it hath been answered ; and if you see more light and truth then formerly , we would desire you substantially to confute what answers some of you have returned to that demand . to admit ( saith mr. j. d. ) those that are known members of another church to communion in the sacraments upon fitting occasions i hold lawfull , and do professemy readinesse to practise accordingly . again , i conceive that ( besides my membership else where , and the right which those churches give to known passants of being admitted to the communion for a short time ) both himself and the whole church acknowledge me for a member with them for the time of my abode in that service , which they testified by desiring the help of my publick labours , and their cheerfull admittance of me to that ordinance during that time without the least scruple . and if a minister may pray , preach , blesse the congregation in the name of the lord , and receive the sacrament with them , being thereunto requested ; we doubt not but by consent of the pastor and the congregation he may lawfully dispense the seals amongst them also as need and occasion requires . that distinction of preaching by office , and exercising his gifts onely , when it is done by a minister , and desired of none but ministers , and that in solemne , set , constant church-assemblies , we cannot find warranted in the word of truth , and therefore we dare not receive it . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e it is truly observed by master davenport out of ambros . offic. l . c. . et quantum libet quisque profecerit , nemo est qui doceri non indigeni dum vi●it . appoll . preface to the reader . wrence these men ( saith cann against robi ) superstitiously addicted to their new devise , that beware how to reject the unanimous judgment and practice of all learned men and true churches . stay against straying . pag. . i am and shall be always ready to give all due respect to those good customes of churches , which are taken upon good warrant and ground , and long continued among gods people . i. d. apol. p. . good customes taken up by the churches upon good grounds should not lightly be broken or laid downe , wherein i doe fully agree with the authour of that elaborate commentary upon the fourth chapter of iohn , i. d. apol. sect. . examina . p. . notes for div a -e this argument is used by the abridgment against conformity to the ceremonies , and we do not see but it is as strong against this liturgy . whereas the publisher of this answer to the six positions , refers the reader to mr. cottons answer unto mr. ball for satisfaction in this point concerning set formes of prayer . the reader is earnestly intreated to compare master balls treatise , and mr cottons answer with seriousnesse and indifferencie , because mr ball having received that answer before the publishing of his treatise ( being much enlarged , whereof mr , cotton was ignorant ) was confident , that with addition of some marginall no●es ( which in reference thereto he added ) his treatise would sufficiently defend it selfe , against all the assaults , which that answer made against it . notes for div a -e we may not communicate at all in that ministery , which is exercised by an unlawfull person or in an unlawful . place robinson against bern. counsell debated p ibid. pag esa . . . ezech ● . , . mic . , . ier. . . esa . , . ioh. . . math . , . & . , . & ▪ . . math. . . & . . see whitak de pontif q . f : . pag. . phil. . . hos . , . sam. . , , , , . ier. . , . mic . , . phil . . helv conf . cap § . & §. , gal. conf . art . arg. conf . art. . saxon. conf . art. zep. de sac l. . c. . art. of religion , hybera . art carlton praelect de ecclesia , cap. . we see no warrant why for every particular act , that in a larger sence is idolatrous , adjoyned to gods true worship , we should forbeare our presence at the true worship it self . unreason . of seperation . answ to . argument . compare what ' master i. d. hath written in defence or excuse in resorting to the assemb . of the separatists , called brownists . apol. sect. . exam . p. ● . & apol. sect. exam . pag. . notes for div a -e rom . cor. . & . rom . gal ● . thess . cor . gal. ● . act . & . & . . eph. . , . acts. . . . gen . . math. . . robins . against bern. reas . discus . pa. . lev . . deut. . . & . . . rom. . deut. . psa . neb. . . act. . . luk. . . cor & . . deut . . . . robin against bern p . act . t it . rob : against bern. act . in the same verse the same persons are called the church disciples , and christians pag. . &c. also pag. ezeck . . see lava●er on ezek math . . ier. . . ios. . rom. . act . as christ is that one great pastor , so hath hee generally one fold and flock , iohn . . ezeck . , which is his church , as he saith . and ye my flock , the flock of my pasture are men , ezek . . aynsw . cant . . sure it is that hee is none of christs sheepe visibly , or in respect of men which is without christs sheepfold , for there is one sheepfold and one sheepheard . iohn . robins against bern likelihoods , p. . hieron . tom . . ep. . nec altera romae urbis ecclesia , alteratotius orbis existimanda est , & gallia , & britannia , & asia , &c. & omnes barbarae nationes unum christum adorant , unam observant regulam veritatis . cor . . col. . . cor. , . cor. . . gal. ● . . phil. . . tim. . . pet. . . pastores sunt omnes , sed grex unus qui ab apostolis omnibus unanimi consensu pascatur . cypr. de unitate ecclesiae . etsi pastores multi sumus , unum tamen gregem pascimus , cypr. l. . epistola . cum sit a christo una ecclesia per totum mundum in multa membra divisa item episcopatus unus episcoporum multorum concordi numero diffusus , &c. cypr. l. . ep. . iohn . . & . & . . a●●anasius may be for an example . gen . . lev. . . apo. . . heb. . . rob. against bern. pa. . rom. . . ● . gen. . . gal. , , , , , rob. against b●r. pa. ● . see mr. i. d. apol. . sect. exam p. . i. d. apol. . sect. exem . pag. , & . bucer . diss . ep pa & ep . pa. . act. . . & . act . . . & . . acts . . & . . & . & . . & . ezra . . , , . act. . & . . , , , , & . . & . . act . . act. act. et . . et . , . acts . & . & . . acts . . robinson against bern p. . euseb h●st l. ● c. ●at . g●ae● . raff . hit de sacra contr de bapt . qu & pag , . a●●ers . of the sacr : l. c fol. . 〈◊〉 de p●es●y● . pag. . act. ● col. . pet . act . ioh. . . & . mark. . . act . & . . rob. against ●ern . p these keyes in d. &c. in the corporation ( the church ) there is alwayes the whole power of christ to residing , which you may call officers for the use of it selfe , to which it is sufficient that it can without officers use this power for things simply necessary ; as for receiving in of members by profession of faith and confession of sins , for edifying of them by exhortation and comforts in the ordinance of prophesying , and so for excommunication . rob. against b. pag. . see rob. against ber. pag. . . . if you call it consultation in an assembly wherein all have equall power and voyce in determining things some one going before the rest idem pag robins against bern. coun. debated , p . ibid. p. . cor. . cor. . . beza de presbyt . & excom . pag. robins against bern. pag. . acts the word of god and canons of councels will have pastors so to care for their own flock , that they forbid them not to care for the whole church , especially in a time of common combustion . the answer of some brethren , pag . publica dei invocatio non minima pars communis in unâ fide consensionis . beza contra erastum , de presbyt pap . . euseb . hist . c. . graec. cham●●● panst . tom . l. . c. . sect. . the churches plea , pag . ap●l pag. & . orig. in isa . hom. . qui vocatur ad episcopatum , vocatur ad servitutem totius ecclesiae . chrysoft . in cor. hom . . vniversae curam gerimus . see cham panstr . tom. . pag. . cap. . sect. , , . &c. jun. animadv . in bellar. contro . . lib. . c. . not . . & cap. not . . act. . . rom. . . phil. . , . & . . ●am . , . act. . . & . & . . & . . cor. . , . esay . . ezr. . . . . . . & . . & . . revel . . what example have you but grounds for the baptising of infants ? or where read you of any officer excommunicated by any rob. against ber. p. . we may not expect examples of any pastors in scriptures : who did thus . i. d. apol. . sect. exam p. ● . see i. d. apol. texts . exam pa. . exod . exod. . col . , . erast so objects against bern. sicut a circumcisione ad baptismum argumentamur ut probemus infantes esse baptizandos , ita etiam licet ab agno paschatis ad coenam domini , &c. whereto hee truly replyeth . ego vero , non negolicere &c. at non temere & universaliter . beza contra erast . pag. . ●ev . . . & . exo. . , eph. . etiam si daremus nullam legi ab apostolis excommunicationem non tamen sequeretur ita esse , quum satis constet non omnium singularia apostolorum gesta perscripta fuisse . bez. de presb. p. . et si de melchizedeck & iobo quae huc adferuntur non sunt extra controversiam . nam foedere cum abra. inito non excluduntur ij qui ante erant in foedere sed accensentur foederi . ita autem se habuit melchizedeck , &c. omnino enim consors promissionis divine fuit ante foedus cum eo initum . gen. . job vero & credens fuit promissionibus foederis & de sententia veterum fuit circumcisus etiam haereditarià circumcisione a paterno maternaque sanguine . vt elegantèr scribit author libri de verà circumcisione qui hieron . ad scribitur . iun. anim adv . in bellar . contrav . . lib. . cha . . not . . ● . d. exam 〈◊〉 tents p . mat. . . . act. , . . & . & . . . . cor. . . . job . . . . cor. . . rev. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & script . ethnici apud patres audiunt . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . matth. . . ephes . . . rob. against ber. p. . * mr. . d. apol. sect. . exam p. . what though this inconvenience do arise sometimes through mans corruption it should be otherwise ; and we must ever consider of the nature of gods ordinances in their right use , &c. rob. against ber. pa. . respondit caam nullam fuisse cur . bapt. istos accedentes rejiceret ut qui ad ejus bapt . venirent cum peccatorum agnitione nec ipse potestatem haberet eos excommunicandi etiamsi fuissent excom . digni . beza de presb. p . recte sane quis illos à sacris prohibuerat , &c. etsi sit tam sceleratus quispiam quam esse exist imatur tum si tale judicium sibi quisque sumat quae mox fuerit ecclesie facies ? sed pretered tenendum est istud in hoc negotio inita cujuspiam cons . non probabillas rectam alterius consciam . id. pa. . id in privatorum arbitrio relinquere ut alibi diximus & periculosum nimis & toti ecclesiae valde damnosum fuisset . id. p. . demonstr . of disc . ca. . rob. against bern. likely veiwed . p. . john . . math. . . cor. . , . tit. . , . rob. ag . ber. pa. . rob. ag . bern. pa. . matth , . iob. . and . . matt. . . act. . , . act. . . act. . . & . . . act . act. . and . . . act. . . act. , . . . cor. . . matth. . . act. . . and . , , . helv. conf . c. . gallic . sect. . anglic. & ab eo neminem qui velit profiteri nomen christi ne infantes quidem christianorum hominum , &c. scot. conf . c. . belgi● . act . . zengerm , conf . de bapt. insant . pro. . argent . conf . ca. . saxon , confes . ca. . palab . conf . sect. ad usum vero ipsum , &c. rob. against ber. pa. . matth. . . act. . . & . . and . . and . . cor. . . act. . . act. . . joh . , . & . . act. . . whit. de sacra . q. . de bap. cap. . pa . act. . . & . . cor. . . against b. pa. . see j. d. ap. sect. . pa. , , . deut. . . rom. . , , , . rom. . . gen. . , and . . act. . . gal. . . . tit. . . mat. . . pet. . . cor. . . matth. . . . mark . . . luk. . . . matth. . , . mar. . , . act. . . . act. . . . act . - . act. . - . notes for div a -e vid. park . pol. ecclesiastica . l. . c. , &c. a fen. theol. lib. . park . de pol. lib. . c. . j. d. apol. . sect. exam . p● . , , . b rob. against ber. pa. . by two or three are meant the meanest communion or societie of saints , with or without officers . rob. against ber. certaine observations , p. . onely he that is of the true visible church and furnished with the power of christ , the keyes of the kingdome for the censure can admonish his brother in order , and those degrees which the word prescribeth mat. . . . id. pa . the power as to receive in , so to cut off any member is given to the whole body together of every christian congregation , and not to any one member apart , or to more members sequestred from the whole , using the meetest number for pronouncing the censures , id. pa. - . if the brethren have libertie in the ordinance of prophesying , they have also libertie in the other ordinance of excommunication , for they are both of the same nature ; looke to whom christ gave the one key of knowledge , to them he gave the other key of discipline , rob. against bern. pa. , . mat. . . joh. . , . & . , . gal. . . ioh . . whit. de pont . q. . c. . . cor. . . & . . tim. . . authoritas rectorum pro dono quidem ecclesiae à christo data est , sed non pro dono absoluto , ut penes totam ecclesiam resideat cui datur , sed pro dono conditionali , ut rectoribus ipsis communicetur ad totius aedificationem , park . de polit. lib. . cap. . cor. . . cor. . . . tim. . . cor. . . act. . . eph. . . . co. . , co. . , . tit. . . successor habet jurisdictionē ab eo a quo praedecessor , alioqui non verè succedit . but pastors and teachers are the successors of the apostles . whit. de pont . q. . c. . fr : victor rel . . de potest ecclesiae q. . alphons . de castr . li. . c. . de insta baret . whit. de pont . q. . c. . cham. panstr . tom . . lib. . c. . sect . . in the church the officers are the ministers of the people , whose service the people is to use for administration and executing their judgements , that is , pronouncing the judgement of the church ( and of god first ) against the obstinate . rob. against ber. p. . the officers in the church are both christs and the peoples servants and ministers . id. p. . ames bel. enerv . tom . . l. . c. . ministri ecclesiastici sunt ecclesie tanquam objecti circa quod versantur ministri sunt christi tanquam principalis causae & domini à quo pendent ministri sed nullo modo episcoporum . omnis legatus in causâ legationis suae immediatè pendet ab eo à quo mittitur , & instrumento mandatorum in corrupto est indelebili . a we denie the order of elders to be superiour to the order of saints , since it is not an order of mastership but of service . rob. against bern. pa. . it were a strange thing that men could have no command over their servants , as i have oft shewed the church-officers to be her servants . id. p. . the order of servants is inferiour to the order of them whose servants they are : but the order of church-officers is an order of servants , and they by office to serve the people , id. p. . . notes for div a -e heb. . . pro. . . & . . gen . . . levit. . . mat. . . gal. . . rob. ag . bern. pa. . exod. . . deut. . . & . . . & . . ezek. . . . nū . . . . deut. . . , . josh . . . , , . iudg. . . . & . . . & . . & . - . chr. . kin. . . & . . chr. . . heb. . act. . . & . . & . , , . act. . . notes for div a -e whit. de pontq . ca. . p. . ep. . li. . rom . . heb. . . bel. de cler. li. ● . c. . jun. animad . contr . . l. c . no● . . rom. . . theod. hist . l. . c. . aug epist . . & . socrat. hist . l . c. , . . zozom . hist . l. . c. , . nazian . in epitaphium patris evagr. l. . c. . . theod. hist . l. . c. . jun. animadver in bel. cont . l. . c. . nor . , . cartur . reply d . part . pa. . illiris . catal . test . li. . tit . ecclesiae gubern . jos . antiq. l. . c. . c. . see ambros . de officijs . l. . c. . hieron . ad ocean & epist. ad nepotian . t. c. reply . pa. . a rever . cathol . orth . tract . . q. . sect. . cartw. reply . par . . pa. . notes for div a -e to baptise is a duty of the pastors pastoriall office . ● . d. apol ser. exam . pa. . exam. of texts , pa. . apol. exam . of texts . p. . a declaration of the faith and order owned and practiced in the congregational churches in england agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, october , . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (wing n ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing n estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a declaration of the faith and order owned and practiced in the congregational churches in england agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, october , . owen, john, - . nye, philip, ?- . [ ], p. printed by john field, and are to be sold by john allen ..., london : . prepared by philip nye and john owen. cf. dnb. advertisements on p. [ ] and p. . reproduction of original in huntington library. eng congregational churches -- creeds. congregational churches -- doctrines. congregational churches -- england -- history. a r (wing n ). civilwar no a declaration of the faith and order owned and practiced in the congregational churches in england; agreed upon and consented unto by their [no entry] c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england ; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy , october . . london : printed by john field , and are to be sold by john allen at the sun rising in pauls church-yard , . a preface . confession of the faith that is in us , when justly called for , is so indispensable a due all owe to the glory of the soveraign god , that it is ranked among the duties of the first commandment , such as prayer is ; and therefore by paul yoaked with faith it self , as necessary to salvation : with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation . our lord christ himself , when he was accused of his doctrine , considered simply as a matter of fact by preaching , refused to answer ; because , as such , it lay upon evidence , and matter of testimony of others ; unto whom therefore he refers himself : but when both the high priest and pilate expostulate his faith , and what he held himself to be ; he without any demur at all , cheerfully makes declaration , that he was the son of god ; so to the high priest : and that he was a king , and born to be a king ; thus to pilate ; though upon the uttering of it his life lay at the stake : which holy profession of his is celebrated for our example , tim. . . confessions , when made by a company of professors of christianity joyntly meeting to that end , the most genuine and natural use of such confessions is , that under the same form of words , they express the substance of the same common salvation , or unity of their faith ; whereby speaking the same things , they shew themselves perfectly joyned in the same minde , and in the same judgement . and accordingly such a transaction is to be looked upon but as a meet or fit medium or means whereby to express that their common faith and salvation , and no way to be made use of as an imposition upon any ▪ whatever is of force or constraint in matters of this nature , causeth them to degenerate from the name and nature of confessions , and turns them from being confessions of faith , into exactions and impositions of faith . and such common confessions of the orthodox faith , made in simplicity of heart by any such body of christians , with concord among themselves , ought to be entertained by all others that love the truth as it is in jesus , with an answerable rejoycing : for if the unanimous opinions and assertions but in some few points of religion , and that when by two churches , namely , that of jerusalem , and the messengers of antioch met , assisted by some of the apostles , were by the believers of those times received with so much joy , ( as it is said , they rejoyced for the consolation ) much more this is to be done , when the whole substance of faith , and form of wholsome words shall be declared by the messengers of a multitude of churches , though wanting those advantages of counsel and authority of the apostles , which that assembly had . which acceptation is then more specially due , when these shall ( to choose ) utter and declare their faith , in the same substance for matter , yea , words , for the most part , that other churches and assemblies , reputed the most orthodox , have done before them : for upon such a correspondency , all may see that actually accomplished ; which the apostle did but exhort unto , and pray for , in those two more eminent churches of the corinthians and the romans ; ( and so in them for all the christians of his time ) that both jew and gentile , that is , men of different perswasions , ( as they were ) might glorifie god with one minde and with one mouth . and truly , the very turning of the gentiles to the owning of the same faith , in the substance of it , with the christian jew ( though differing in greater points then we do from our brethren ) is presently after dignified by the apostle with this stile , that it is the confession of jesus christ himself ; not as the object onely , but as the author and maker thereof : i will confess to thee ( saith christ to god ) among the gentiles . so that in all such accords , christ is the great and first confessor ; and we , and all our faith uttered by us , are but the epistles , ( as paul ) and confessions ( as isaiah there ) of their lord and ours ; he , but expressing what is written in his heart , through their hearts and mouthes , to the glory of god the father : and shall not we all rejoyce herein , when as christ himself is said to do it upon this occasion : as it there also follows , i will sing unto thy name . further , as the soundness and wholsomness of the matter gives the vigor and life to such confessions , so the inward freeness , willingness and readiness of the spirits of the confessors do contribute the beauty and loveliness thereunto : as it is in prayer to god , so in confessions made to men . if two or three met , do agree , it renders both , to either the more acceptable . the spirit of christ is in himself too free , great and generous a spirit , to suffer himself to be used by any humane arm , to whip men into belief ; he drives not , but gently leads into all truth , and perswades men to dwell in the tents of like precious faith ; which would lose of its preciousness and value , if that sparkle of freeness shone not in it : the character of his people , is to be a willing people in the day of his power ▪ ( not mans ) in the beauties of holiness , which are the assemblings of the saints : one glory of which assemblings in that first church , is said to have been , they met with one accord , which is there in that psalm prophesied of , in the instance of that first church , for all other that should succeed . and as this great spirit is in himself free , when , and how far , and in whom to work , so where and when he doth work ▪ he carrieth it with the same freedom , and is said to be a free spirit , as he both is , and works in us : and where this spirit of the lord is , there is liberty . now , as to this confession of ours , besides , that a conspicuous conjunction of the particulars mentioned , hath appeared therein : there are also four remarkable attendants thereon , which added , might perhaps in the eyes of sober and indifferent spirits , give the whole of this transaction a room and rank amongst other many good and memorable things of this age ; at least all set together , do cast as clear a gleam and manifestation of gods power and presence , as hath appeared in any such kinde of confessions , made by so numerous a company these later years . the first , is the temper , ( or distemper rather ) of the times , during which , these churches have been gathering , and which they have run through . all do ( out of a general sense ) complain that the times have been perillous , or difficult times ; ( as the apostle foretold ) and that in respect to danger from seducing spirits , more perillous then the hottest seasons of persecution . we have sailed through an aestuation , fluxes and refluxes of great varieties of spirits , doctrines , opinions and occurrences ; and especially in the matter of opinions , which have been accompanied in their several seasons , with powerful perswasions and temptations , to seduce those of our way . it is known men have taken the freedom ( notwithstanding what authority hath interposed to the contrary ) to vent and vend their own vain and accursed imaginations , contrary to the great and fixed truths of the gospel , insomuch , as take the whole round and circle of delusions , the devil hath in this small time , ran , it will be found , that every truth , of greater or lesser weight , hath by one or other hand , at one time or another , been questioned and called to the bar amongst us , yea , and impleaded , under the pretext ( which hath some degree of justice in it ) that all should not be bound up to the traditions of former times , nor take religion upon trust . whence it hath come to pass , that many of the soundest professors were put upon a new search and disquisition of such truths , as they had taken for granted , and yet had lived upon the comfort of : to the end they might be able to convince others , and establish their own hearts against that darkness and unbelief , that is ready to close with error , or at least to doubt of the truth , when error is speciously presented . and hereupon we do professedly account it one of the greatest advantages gained out of the temptations of these times ; yea the honor of the saints and ministers of these nations , that after they had sweetly been exercised in , and had improved practical and experimental truths , this should be their further lot , to examine and discuss , and indeed , anew to learn over every doctrinal truth , both out of the scriptures , and also with a fresh taste thereof in their own hearts ; which is no other then what the apostle exhorts to , try all things , hold fast that which is good . conversion unto god at first , what is it else then a savory and affectionate application , and the bringing home to the heart with spiritual light and life , all truths that are necessary to salvation , together with other lesser truths ? all which we had afore conversion taken in but notionally from common education and tradition . now that after this first gust those who have bin thus converted should be put upon a new probation and search out of the scriptures , not onely of all principles explicitely ingredients to conversion ; ( unto which the apostle referreth the galatians when they had diverted from them ) but of all other superstructures as well as fundamentals ; and together therewith , anew to experiment the power and sweetness of all these in their own souls : what is this but tryed faith indeed ? and equivalent to a new conversion unto the truth ? an anchor that is proved to be sure and stedfast , that will certainly hold in all contrary storms : this was the eminent seal and commendation which those holy apostles that lived and wrote last ; peter , john and jude ; in their epistles did set and give to the christians of the latter part of those primitive times . and besides , it is clear and evident by all the other epistles , from first to last , that it cost the apostles as much , and far more care and pains to preserve them they had converted , in the truth , then they had taken to turn them thereunto at first : and it is in it self as great a work and instance of the power of god , that keeps , yea , guards us through faith unto salvation . secondly , let this be added , ( or superadded rather ) to give full weight and measure , even to running over ) that we have all along this season , held forth ( though quarreled with for it by our brethren ) this great principle of these times , that amongst all christian states and churches , there ought to be vouchsafed a forbearance and mutual indulgence unto saints of all perswasions , that keep unto , and hold fast the necessary foundations of faith and holiness , in all other matters extrafundamental , whether of faith or order . this to have been our constant principle , we are not ashamed to confess to the whole christian world . wherein yet we desire we may be understood , not as if in the abstract we stood indifferent to falshood or truth , or were careless whether faith or error , in any truths but fundamental , did obtain or not , so we had our liberty in our petty and smaller differences : or as if to make sure of that , we had cut out this wide cloak for it : no , we profess that the whole , and every particle of that faith delivered to the saints , ( the substance of which we have according to our light here professed ) is , as to the propagation and furtherance of it by all gospel-means , as precious to us as our lives ; or what can be supposed dear to us ; and in our sphere we have endeavored to promote them accordingly : but yet withall , we have and do contend , ( and if we had all the power which any , or all of our brethren of differing opinions have desired to have over us , or others , we should freely grant it unto them all ) we have and do contend for this , that in the concrete , the persons of all such gracious saints , they and their errors , as they are in them , when they are but such errors as do and may stand with communion with christ , though they should not repent of them , as not being convinced of them to the end of their days ; that those , with their errors ( that are purely spiritual , and intrench and overthrow not civil societies , ) as concrete with their persons , should for christs sake be born withall by all christians in the world ; and they notwithstanding be permitted to enjoy all ordinances and spiritual priviledges according to their light , as freely as any other of their brethren that pretend to the greatest orthodoxity ; as having as equal , and as fair a right in and unto christ , and all the holy things of christ , that any other can challenge to themselves . and this doth afford a full and invincible testimony on our behalf , in that whiles we have so earnestly contended for this just liberty of saints in all the churches of christ , we our selves have had no need of it : that is as to the matter of the profession of faith which we have maintained together with others : and of this , this subsequent confession of faith gives sufficient evidence . so as we have the confidence in christ , to utter in the words of those two great apostles , that we have stood fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free ( in the behalf of others , rather then our selves ) and having been free , have not made use of out liberty , for a cloak of error or maliciousness in our selves : and yet , loe , whereas from the beginning of the rearing of these churches , that of the apostle hath been ( by some ) prophecyed of us , and applyed to us , that whiles we promised ( unto others ) liberty , we our selves would become servants of corruption , and be brought in bondage to all sorts of fancies and imaginations ; yet the whole world may now see after the experience of many years ran through ( and it is manifest by this confession ) that the great and gracious god hath not onely kept us in that common unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god , which the whole community of saints have and shall in their generations come unto , but also in the same truths , both small and great , that are built thereupon , that any other of the best and more pure reformed churches in their best times ( which were their first times ) have arrived unto : this confession withall holding forth a professed opposition unto the common errors and heresies of these times . these two considerations have been taken from the seasons we have gone through . thirdly , let the space of time it self , or days , wherein from first to last the whole of this confession was framed and consented to by the whole of us , be duly considered by sober and ingenuous spirits : the whole of days in which we had meetings about it , ( set aside the two lords days , and the first days meeting , in which we considered and debated what to pitch upon ) were but eleven days , part of which also was spent by some of us in prayer , others in consulting ; and in the end all agreeing . we mention this small circumstance but to this end , ( which still adds unto the former ) that it gives demonstration , not of our freeness and willingness onely , but of our readiness and preparedness unto so great a work ; which otherwise , and in other assemblies , hath ordinarily taken up long and great debates , as in such a variety of matters of such concernment , may well be supposed to fall out . and this is no other then what the apostle peter exhorts unto , be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason or account of the hope that is in you . the apostle paul saith of the spiritual truths of the gospel , that god hath prepared them for those that love him . the inward and innate constitution of the new creature being in it self such as is suted to all those truths , as congenial thereunto : but although there be this mutual adaptness between these two , yet such is the mixture of ignorance , darkness and unbelief , carnal reason , preoccupation of judgement , interest of parties , wantonness in opinion , proud adhering to our own perswasions , and perverse oppositions and aversness to agree with others , and a multitude of such like distempers common to believing man : all which are not onely mixed with , but at times , ( especially in such times as have passed over our heads ) are ready to overcloud our judgements , and do cause our eyes to be double , and sometimes prevail as well as lusts , and do byass our wills and affections : and such is their mixture , that although there may be existent an habitual preparedness in mens spirits , yet not always a present readiness to be found , specially not in such a various multitude of men , to make a solemn and deliberate profession of all truths , it being as great a work to finde the spirits of the just ( perhaps the best ) of saints , ready for every truth , as to be prepared to every good work . it is therefore to be looked at as a great and special work of the holy ghost , that so numerous a company of ministers , and other principal brethren , should so readily , speedily and joyntly give up themselves unto such a whole body of truths that are after godliness . this argues they had not their faith to seek ; but , as is said of ezra , that they were ready scribes , and ( as christ ) instructed unto the kingdom of heaven , being as the good housholders of so many families of christ , bringing forth of their store and treasury new and old. it shews these truths had been familiar to them , and they acquainted with them , as with their daily food and provision , ( as christs allusion there insinuates ) in a word , that so they had preached , and that so their people had believed , as the apostle speaks upon one like particular occasion . and the apostle paul considers ( in cases of this nature ) the suddenness or length of the time , either one way or the other ; whether it were in mens forsaking or learning of the truth . thus the suddenness in the galatians case in leaving the truth , he makes a wonder of it : i marvel that you are so soon ( that is , in so short a time ) removed from the true gospel unto another . again on the contrary , in the hebrews he aggravates their backwardness , that when for the time you ought to be teachers , you had need that one teach you the very first principles of the oracles of god . the parable contrary to both these having fallen out in this transaction , may have some ingredient and weight with ingenuous spirits in its kinde , according to the proportion is put upon either of these forementioned in their adverse kinde , and obtain the like special observation . this accord of ours hath fallen out without having held any correspondency together , or prepared consultation by which we might come to be advised of one anothers mindes . we alledge not this as a matter of commendation in us ; no , we acknowledge it to have been a great neglect : and accordingly one of the first proposals for union amongst us was , that there might be a constant correspondence held among the churches for counsel and mutual edification , so for time to come to prevent the like omission . we confess that from the first , every , or at least the generality of our churches , have been in a maner like so many ships ( though holding forth the same general colours ) lancht singly , and sailing apart and alone in the vast ocean of these tumultuating times , and they exposed to every wind of doctrine , under no other conduct then the word and spirit , and their particular elders and principal brethren , without associations among our selves , or so much as holding out common lights to others , whereby to know where we were . but yet whilest we thus confess to our own shame this neglect , let all acknowledge , that god hath ordered it for his high and greater glory , in that his singular care and power should have so watcht over each of these , as that all should be found to have steered their course by the same chart , and to have been bound for one and the same port , and that upon this general search now made , that the same holy and blessed truths of all sorts , which are currant and warrantable amongst all the other churches of christ in the world , should be found to be our lading . the whole , and every of these things when put together , do cause us ( whatever men of prejudiced and opposite spirits may finde out to slight them ) with a holy admiration , to say , that this is no other then the lords doing ; and which we with thanksgiving do take from his hand as a special token upon us for good , and doth show that god is faithful and upright towards those that are planted in his house : and that as the faith was but once for all , and intentionally first delivered unto the saints ; so the saints , when not abiding scattered , but gathered under their respective pastors according to gods heart into an house , and churches unto the living god , such together are , as paul forespake it , the most steady and firm pillar and seat of truth that god hath anywhere appointed to himself on earth , where his truth is best conserved , and publiquely held forth ; there being in such assemblies weekly a rich dwelling of the word amongst them , that is , a daily open house kept by the means of those good housholders , their teachers and other instructers respectively appropriated to them , whom christ in the vertue of his ascension , continues to give as gifts to his people , himself dwelling amongst them ; to the end that by this , as the most sure standing permanent means , the saints might be perfected , till we all ( even all the saints in present and future ages ) do come by this constant and daily ordinance of his unto the unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man , unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of christ ( which though growing on by parts and piecemeal , will yet appear compleat , when that great and general assembly shall be gathered , then when this world is ended , and these dispensations have had their fulness and period ) and so that from henceforth ( such a provision being made for us ) we be no more children tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine . and finally , this doth give a fresh and recent demonstration , that the great apostle and high-priest of our profession is indeed ascended into heaven , and continues there with power and care , faithful as a son over his own house , whose house are we , if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoycing of the hope firm unto the end : and shews that he will , as he hath promised , be with his own institutions to the end of the world . it is true , that many sad miscarriages , divisions , breaches fallings off from holy ordinances of god , have along this time of tentation , ( especially in the beginning of it ) been found in some of our churches ; and no wonder , if what hath been said be fully considered : many reasons might further be given hereof , that would be a sufficient apology , without the help of a retortion upon other churches ( that promised themselves peace ) how that more destroying ruptures have befallen them , and that in a wider sphere and compass , which though it should not justifie us , yet may serve to stop others mouthes . let rome glory of the peace in , and obedience of her children , against the reformed churches for their divisions that occurred ( especially in the first rearing of them ) whilest we all know the causes of their dull and stupid peace to have been carnal interests , worldly correspondencies , and coalitions strengthened by gratifications of all sorts of men by that religion , the principles of blinde devotion , traditional faith , ecclesiastical tyranny , by which she keeps her children in bondage to this day . we are also certain , that the very same prejudice that from hence they would cast upon the reformed ( if they were just ) do lye as fully against those pure churches raised up by the apostles themselves in those first times : for as we have heard of their patience , sufferings , consolations , and the transcending gifts poured out , and graces shining in them , so we have heard complaints of their divisions too , of the forsakings of their assemblies , as the custom or maner of some was ( which later were in that respect felones de se , and needed no other delivering up to satan as their punishment , then what they executed upon themselves . ) we read of the shipwrack also of faith and a good conscience , and overthrowings of the faith of some ; and still but of some , not all , nor the most : which is one piece of an apologie the apostle again and again inserts to future ages , and through mercy we have the same to make . and truly we take the confidence professedly to say , that these tentations common to the purest churches of saints separated from the mixture of the world , though they grieve us ( for who is offended , and we burn not ? ) yet they do not at all stumble us , as to the truth of our way , had they been many more : we say it again , these stumble us no more ( as to that point ) then it doth offend us against the power of religion it self , to have seen , and to see daily in particular persons called out and separated from the world by an effectual work of conversion , that they for a while do suffer under disquietments , vexations , turmoils , unsettlements of spirit , that they are tossed with tempests and horrid tentations , such as they had not in their former estate , whilst they walked according to the course of this world : for peter hath sufficiently instructed us whose business it is to raise such storms , even the devil's ; and also whose designe it is , that after they have suffered a while , thereby they shall be setled , perfected , stablished , that have so suffered , even the god of all grace . and look what course of dispensation god holds to saints personally , he doth the like to bodies of saints in churches , and the devil the same for his part too : and that consolatory maxim of the apostle , god shall tread down satan under your feet shortly , which paul uttereth concerning the church of rome , shews how both god and satan have this very hand therein ; for he speaks that very thing in reference unto their divisions , as the coherence clearly manifests ; and so you have both designs exprest at once . yea , we are not a little induced to think , that the divisions , breaches , &c. of those primitive churches would not have been so frequent among the people themselves , and not the elders onely , had not the freedom , liberties and rights of the members ( the brethren , we mean ) been stated and exercised in those churches , the same which we maintain and contend for to be in ours . yea ( which perhaps may seem more strange to many ) had not those churches been constituted of members inlightned further then with notional and traditional knowledge , by a new and more powerful light of the holy ghost , wherein they had been made partakers of the holy ghost , and the heavenly gift , and their hearts had tasted the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come , and of such members at lowest , there had not fallen out those kindes of divisions among them . for experience hath shewn , that the common sort of meer doctrinal professors ( such as the most are now a days ) whose highest elevation is but freedom from moral scandal joyned with devotion to christ through meer education , such as in many turks is found towards mahomet , that these finding and feeling themselves not much concerned in the active part of religion , so they may have the honor ( especially upon a reformation of a new refinement ) that themselves are approved members , admitted to the lords supper , and their children to the ordinance of baptism ; they regard not other matters ( as gallio did not ) but do easily and readily give up themselves unto their guides , being like dead fishes carried with the common stream ; whereas those that have a further renewed light by a work of the holy ghost , whether saving or temporary , are upon the quite contrary grounds apt to be busie about , and inquisitive into , what they are to receive and practise , or wherein their consciences are professedly concerned and involved : and thereupon they take the freedom to examine and try the spirits , whether of god or no : and from hence are more apt to dissatisfaction , and from thence to run into division , and many of such proving to be inlightned but with a temporary , not saving faith ( who have such a work of the spirit upon them , and profession in them , as will and doth approve it self to the judgement of saints , and ought to be so judged , until they be otherwise discovered ) who at long run , prove hypocrites through indulgence unto lusts , and then out of their lusts persist to hold up these divisions unto breach of , or departings ▪ from churches , and the ordinances of god , and god is even with them for it , they waxing worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived ; and even many of those that are sincere , through a mixture of darkness and erroneousness in their judgements , are for a season apt out of conscience to be led away with the error of others , which lie in wait to deceive . insomuch as the apostle upon the example of those first times , foreseeing also the like events in following generations upon the like causes , hath been bold to set this down as a ruled case , that likewise in other churches so constituted and de facto empriviledged as that of the church of corinth was ( which single church , in the sacred records about it , is the compleatest mirror of church-constitution , order and government , and events thereupon ensuing , of any one church whatever that we have story of ) his maxim is , there must be also divisions amongst you ; he setly inserts an [ also ] in the case , as that which had been in his own observation , and that which would be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the fate of other churches like thereunto , so prophesieth he : and he speaks this as peremptorily as he doth elsewhere in that other , we must through many tribulations enter into the kingdom of heaven : yea , and that all that will live godly in christ jesus , shall suffer persecution : there is a [ must ] upon both alike , and we bless god , that we have run through both , and do say , and we say no more ; that as it was then , so it is now , in both respects . however , such hath been the powerful hand of gods providence in these , which have been the worst of our tryals , that out of an approved experience and observation of the issue , we are able to add that other part of the apostles prediction , that therefore such rents must be , that they which are approved may be made manifest among you ; which holy issue god ( as having aimed at it therein ) doth frequently and certainly bring about in churches , as he doth bring upon them that other fate of division . let them therefore look unto it , that are the authors of such disturbances , as the apostle warneth , gal. . . the experiment is this , that we have seen , and do daily see , that multitudes of holy and precious souls , and ( in the holy ghosts word ) approved saints , have been , and are the more rooted and grounded by means of these shakings , and do continue to cleave the faster to christ , and the purity of his ordinances , and value them the more by this cost god hath put them to for the enjoying of them , who having been planted in the house of the lord , have flourished in the courts of our god , in these evil times , to shew that the lord is upright . and this experimented event from out of such divisions , hath more confirmed us , and is a lowder apologie for us , then all that our opposites are able from our breaches to alleadge to prejudice us . we will add a few words for conclusion , and give a more particular account of this our declaration . in drawing up this confession of faith , we have had before us the articles of religion , approved and passed by both houses of parliament , after advice had with an assembly of divines , called together by them for that purpose . to which confession , for the substance of it , we fully assent , as do our brethren of new-england , and the churches also of scotland , as each in their general synods have testified . a few things we have added for obviating some erroneous opinions , that have been more broadly and boldly here of late maintained by the asserters , then in former times ; and made other additions and alterations in method , here and there , and some clearer explanations , as we found occasion . we have endeavored throughout , to hold to such truths in this our confession , as are more properly termed matters of faith ; and what is of church-order , we dispose in certain propositions by it self . to this course we are led by the example of the honorable houses of parliament , observing what was established , and what omitted by them in that confession the assembly presented to them . who thought it not convenient to have matters of discipline and church-government put into a confession of faith , especially such particulars thereof , as then were , and still are controverted and under dispute by men orthodox and sound in faith . the th cap. therefore of that confession , as it was presented to them by the assembly , which is of church-censures , their use , kindes , and in whom placed : as also cap. . of synods and councels , by whom to be called , of what force in their decrees and determinations . and the th paragr. of the th cap. which determines what opinions and practises disturb the peace of the church , and how such disturbers ought to be proceeded against by the censures of the church , and punished by the civil magistrate . also a great part of the th cap. of marriage and divorce . these were such doubtful assertions , and so unsutable to a confession of faith , as the honorable houses in their great wisdom thought fit to lay them aside : there being nothing that tends more to heighten dissentings among brethren , then to determine and adopt the matter of their difference , under so high a title as to be an article of our ●●ith : so that there are two whole chapters , and some paragraphs in other chapters in their confession , that we have upon this account omitted and the rather do we give this notice , because that copy of the parliaments , followed by us , is in few mens hands ; the other as it came from the assembly , being approved of in scotland , was printed and hastened ●nto the world before the parliament had declared their resolutions about it ; which was not till june . . and yet hath been , and continueth to be the copy ( ordinarily ) onely sold , printed and reprinted for these eleven years . after the th cap. of the law , we have added a cap. of the gospel , it being a title that may not well be omitted in a confession of faith . in which chapter , what is dispersed , and by intimation in the assemblies confession with some little addition , is here brought together , and more fully under one head . that there are not scriptures annexed as in some confessions ( though in divers others it 's otherwise ) we give the same account as did the reverend assembly in the same case : which was this ; the confession being large , and so framed , as to meet with the common errors , if the scriptures should have been alleadged with any clearness , and by shewing where the strength of the proof lieth , it would have required a volume . we say further , it being our utmost end in this ( as it is indeed of a confession ) humbly to give an account what we hold and assert in these matters ; that others , especially the churches of christ may judge of us accordingly . this we aimed at , and not so much to instruct others , or convince gainsayers . these are the proper works of other institutions of christ , and are to be done in the strength of express scripture . a confession is an ordinance of another nature . what we have laid down and asserted about churches and their government , we humbly conceive to be the order which christ himself hath appointed to be observed , we have endeavored to follow scripture-light ; and those also that went before us according to that rule , desirous of nearest uniformity with reforming churches , as with our brethren in new england , so with others , that differ from them and us . the models and platforms of this subject laid down by learned men , and practised by churches , are various : we do not judge it brotherly , or grateful , to insist upon comparisons as some have done ; but this experience teacheth , that the variety , and possibly the disputes and emulations arising thence , have much strengthened , if not fixed , this unhapy perswasion in the mindes of some learned and good men , namely , that there is no settled order laid down in scripture ; but it 's left to the prudence of the christian magistrate , to compose or make choice of such a form as is most sutable and consistent with their civil government . where this opinion is entertained in the perswasion of governors , there , churches asserting their power and order to be jure divino , and the appointment of jesus christ , can have no better nor more honorable entertainment , then a toleration or permission . yet herein there is this remarkable advantage to all parties that differ , about what in government is of christs appointment ; in that such magistrates have a far greater ●●●●tude in conscience , to tolerate and permit the several forms of each so bound up in their perswasion , then they have to submit unto what the magistrate shall impose : and thereupon the magistrate exercising an indulgency and forbearance , with protection and encouragement to the people of god , so differing from him , and amongst themselves : doth therein discharge as great a faithfulness to christ ▪ and love to his people , as can any way be supposed and expected from any christian magistrate , of what perswasion soever he is . and where this clemency from governors is shewed to any sort of persons or churches of christ upon such a principle , it will in equity produce this just effect , that all that so differ from him , and amongst themselves , standing in equal and alike difference from the principle of such a magistrate , he is equally free to give a like liberty to them , one as well as the other . this faithfulness in our governors we do with thankfulness to god acknowledge , and to their everlasting honor , which appeared much in the late reformation . the hicrarchie , common-prayer-book , and all other things grievous to gods people , being removed , they made choice of an assembly of learned men , to advise what government and order is meet to be established in the room of these things ; and because it was known there were different opinions ( as always hath been among godly men ) about forms of church-government , there was by the ordinance first sent forth to call an assembly , not onely a choice made of persons of several perswasions to sit as members there , but liberty given , to a lesser number , if dissenting , to report their judgements and reasons , 〈◊〉 well and as freely as the major part . hereupon the honorable house of commons ( an indulgence we hope will never be forgotten ) finding by papers received from them , that the members of the assembly were not like to compose differences amongst themselves , so as to joyn in the same rule for church-government , did order further as followeth : that a committee of lords and commons , &c. do take into consideration the differences of the opinions in the assembly of divines in point of church-government , and to endeavor a union if it be possible ; and in case that cannot be done , to endeavor the finding out some way , how far tender conferences , who cannot in all things submit to the same rule which shall be established , may be born with according to the word , and as may stand with the publique peace . by all which it is evident the parliament purposed not to establish the rule of church-government with such rigor , as might not permit and bear with a practise different from what they had established : in persons and churches of different principles , if occasion were . and this christian clemency and indulgence in our governors , hath been the foundation of that freedom and liberty , in the managing of church-affairs , which our brethren , as well as we , that differ from them , do now , and have many years enjoyed . the honorable houses by several ordinances of parliament after much consultation , having settled rules for church-government , and such an ecclesiastical order as they judged would best joynt with the laws and government of the kingdom , did publish them , requiring the practise hereof throughout the nation ; and in particular , by the ministers of the province of london . but ( upon the former reason , or the like charitable consideration ) these rules were not imposed by them under any penalty or rigorous inforcement , though frequently urged thereunto by some . our reverend brethren of the province of london , having considered of these ordinances , and the church-government laid down in them , declared their opinions to be , that there is not a compleat rule in those ordinances ; also , that there are many necessary things not yet established , and some things wherein their consciences are not so fully satisfied . these brethren in the same paper , have published also their joynt resolution to practise in all things according to the rule of the word , and according to these ordinances , so far as they conceive them correspond to it , and in so doing they trust they shall not grieve the spirit of the truly godly , nor give any just occasion to them that are contrary minded , to blame their proceedings . we humbly conceive ( that we being dissatisfied in these things as our brethren ) the like liberty was intended by the honorable houses , and may be taken by us of the congregational way ( without blame or grief to the spirits of those brethren at least ) to resolve , or rather to continue in the same resolution and practise in these matters , which indeed were our practises in times of greatest opposition , and before this reformation was begun . and as our brethren the ministers of london , drew up and published their opinions and apprehensions about church-government into an intire system ; so we now give the like publique account of our consciences , and the rules by which we have constantly practised hitherto ; which we have here drawn up , and do present . whereby it will appear how much , or how little we differ in these things from our presbyterian brethren . and we trust there is no just cause why any man , either for our differing from the present settlement , it being out of conscience , and not out of contempt , or our differences one from another , being not wilful , should charge either of us with that odious reproach of schism . and indeed , if not for our differing from the state-settlement , much less because we differ from our brethren , our differences being in some lesser things , and circumstances onely , as themselves acknowledge . and let it be further considered , that we have not broken from them or their order by these differences ( but rather they from us ) and in that respect we less deserve their censure ; our practise being no other then what it was in our breaking from episcopacy , and long before presbytery , or any such form as now they are in , was taken up by them ; and we will not say how probable it is that the yoke of episcopacy had been upon our neck to this day , if some such way ( as formerly , and now is , and hath been termed schism ) had not with much suffering bin then practised & since continued in . for novelty , wherewith we are likewise both charged by the enemies of both , it is true , in respect of the publique and open profession , either of presbytery or independency , this nation hath been a stranger to each way , it 's possible ever since it hath been christian ; though for our-selves we are able to trace the footsteps of an independent congregational way in the ancientest customs of the churches , as also in the writings of our soundest protestant divines , and ( that which we are much satisfied in ) a full concurrence throughout in all the substantial parts of church-government , with our reverend brethren the old puritan non-conformists , who being instant in prayer and much sufferings , prevailed with the lord , and we reap with joy , what they sowed in tears . our brethren also that are for presbyterial subordinations , profess what is of weight against novelty for their way . and now therefore seeing the lord , in whose hand is the heart of princes , hath put into the hearts of our governors to tolerate and permit ( as they have done many years ) persons of each perswasion , to enjoy their consciences , though neither come up to the rule established by authority : and that which is more , to give us both protection , and the same encouragement that the most devoted conformists in those former superstitious times enjoyed , yea , and by a publique law to establish this liberty for time to come ; and yet further , in the midst of our fears , to set over us a prince that owns this establishment , and cordially resolves to secure our churches in the enjoyment of these liberties , if we abuse them not to the disturbance of the civil peace . this should be a very great engagement upon the hearts of all , though of different perswasions , to endeavor our utmost , joyntly to promove the honor and prosperity of such a government and governors by whatsoever means , which in our callings as ministers of the gospel , and as churches of jesus christ the prince of peace , we are any way able to ; as also to be peaceably disposed one towards another , and with mutual toleration to love as brethren , notwithstanding such differences , remembring , as it 's very equal we should , the differences that are between presbyterians and independents , being differences between fellow-servants , and neither of them having authority given from god or man , to impose their opinions , one more then the other . that our governors after so solemn an establishment , should thus bear with us both , in our greater differences from their rule , and after this , for any of us to take a fellow-servant by the throat , upon the account of a lesser reckoning , and nothing due to him upon it : is to forget , at least not to exercise , that compassion and tenderness we have found , where we had less ground to challenge or expect it . our prayer unto god is , that whereto we have already attained , we all may walk by the same rule , and that wherein we are otherwise minded , god would reveal it to us in his due time . books sold by john allen at the sun rising in pauls church-yard , viz. mr. caryls fifth volume on the book of job , in quarto . mr. caryls seventh volume on the book of job , in quarto . bezae novum testamentum , in folio . mr. allens scripture chronology , in quarto . mr. baxters call to the unconverted . mr. cotton on the covenant , intended suddenly for the press . mr. lukins practice of godliness . mr. burgess of original sin . pareus on the revelation , in folio . mr. gataker against judicial astrology , wherein he proves it to be the way and practice of heathens , and ought not to be so much as named by them that profess the name of christ . esay . , . jer. . . the history of the evangelical churches of the valleys of piemont , containing a most exact description of the place , and a faithful account of the doctrine , life and persecutions of the ancient inhabitants , together with a most naked and punctual relation of the late bloody massacre . and a narrative of all the following transactions to . justifi●d partly by divers ancient manuscripts , written many hundred years before calvin or luther . by samuel morlaend esq in folio . the humbled sinner resolved what he should do to be saved : or faith in the lord jesus christ , the onely way of salvation , by mr. obadiah sedgwick , in quarto . the riches of grace displayed in the offer and tender of salvation to poor sinners , by the same author , in twelves . the fountain opened , and the water of life flowing forth , for the refreshing of thirsty sinners , by the same author , quarto . the gospels glory , without prejudice to the law , shining forth in the glory of god the father , son and holy ghost , for the salvation of sinners , by mr. richard byfield , in octavo . a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england . chap. i. of the holy scripture . although the light of nature , and the works of creation and providence , do so far manifest the goodness , wisdom and power of god , as to leave men unexcusable ; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of god and of his will , which is necessary unto salvation : therefore it pleased the lord at sundry times , and in divers maners to reveal himself , and to declare that his will unto his church ; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth , and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh , and the malice of satan and of the world , to commit the same wholly unto writing : which maketh the holy scripture to be most necessary ; those former ways of gods revealing his will unto his people , being now ceased . ii. under the name of the holy scripture , or the word of god written , are now contained all the books of the old and new testament ; which are these : of the old testament . genesis , exodus , leviticus , numbers , deuteronomy , joshua , judges , ruth , samuel , samuel , kings , kings , chronicles , chronicles , ezra , nehemiah , esther , job , psalms , proverbs , ecclesiastes , the song of songs , isaiah , jeremiah , lamentations , ezekiel , daniel , hosea , joel , amos , obadiah , jonah , micah , nahum , habakkuk , zephaniah , haggai , zechariah , malachi . of the new testament . matthew , mark , luke , john , the acts of the apostles , pauls epistle to the romans , corinthians , corinthians , galatians , ephesians , philippians , colossians , thessalonians , thessalonians , to timothy , to timothy , to titus , to philemon , the epistle to the hebrews , the epistle of james , the first and second epistles of peter , the first , second and third epistles of john , the epistle of jude , the revelation . all which are given by the inspiration of god to be the rule of faith and life . iii. the books commonly called apocrypha , not being of divine inspiration , are no part of the canon of the scripture ; and therefore are of no authority in the church of god , nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of , then other humane writings . iv. the authority of the holy scripture , for which it ought to be believed and obeyed , dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church ; but wholly upon god ( who is truth it self ) the author thereof ; and therefore it is to be received , because it is the word of god . v. we may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church , to an high and reverent esteem of the holy scripture . and the heavenliness of the matter , the efficacy of the doctrine , the majesty of the style , the consent of all the parts , the scope of the whole , ( which is , to give all glory to god ) the full discovery it makes of the onely way of mans salvation , the many other incomparable excellencies , and the intire perfection thereof , are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence it self to be the word of god ; yet notwithstanding , our full perswasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof , is from the inward work of the holy spirit , bearing witness by and with the word in our hearts . vi . the whole counsel of god concerning all things necessary for his own glory , mans salvation , faith and life , is either expresly set down in scripture , or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from scripture ; unto which nothing at any time is to be added , whether by new revelations of the spirit , or traditions of men . nevertheless we acknowledge the inward illumination of the spirit of god to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the word : and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of god and government of the church , common to humane actions and societies , which are to be ordered by the light of nature and christian prudence , according to the general rules of the word , which are always to be observed . vii . all things in scripture are not alike plain in themselves , nor alike clear unto all : yet those things which are necessary to be known , believed and observed for salvation , are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of scripture or other , that not onely the learned , but the unlearned , in a due use of the ordinary means , may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them . viii . the old testament in hebrew ( which was the native language of the people of god of old ) and the new testament in greek ( which at the time of writing of it was most generally known to the nations ) being immediately inspired by god , and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages , are therefore authentical ; so as in all controversies of religion the church is finally to appeal unto them . but because these original tongues are not known to all the people of god , who have right unto and interest in the scriptures , and are commanded in the fear of god to read and search them ; therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come , that the word of god dwelling plentifully in all , they may worship him in an acceptable maner , and through patience and comfort of the scriptures may have hope . ix . the infallible rule of interpretation of scripture , is the scripture it self ; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any scripture ( which is not manifold , but one ) it must be searched and known by other places , that speak more clearly . x. the supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined , and all decrees of councels , opinions of ancient writers , doctrines of men and private spirits , are to be examined , and in whose sentence we are to rest , can be no other , but the holy scripture delivered by the spirit ; into which scripture so delivered , our faith is finally resolved . chap. ii. of god and of the holy trinity . there is but one onely living and true god ; who is infinite in being and perfection , a most pure spirit , invisible , without body , parts , or passions , immutable , immense , eternal , incomprehensible , almighty , most wise , most holy , most free , most absolute , working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will , for his own glory , most loving , gracious , merciful , long-suffering , abundant in goodness and truth , forgiving iniquity , transgression and sin , the rewarder of them that diligently seek him ; and withal , most just and terrible in his judgements , hating all sin , and who will by no means clear the guilty . ii. god hath all life , glory , goodness , blessedness , in , and of himself ; and is alone , in , and unto himself , all-sufficient , not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made , nor deriving any glory from them , but onely manifesting his own glory in , by , unto , and upon them : he is the alone fountain of all being , of whom , through whom , and to whom are all things ; and hath most soveraign dominion over them , to do by them , for them , or upon them , whatsoever himself pleaseth : in his sight all things are open and manifest , his knowledge is infinite , infallible , and independent upon the creature , so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain . he is most holy in all his counsels , in all his works , and in all his commands . to him is due from angels and men , and every other creature , whatsoever worship , service or obedience , as creatures , they owe unto the creator , and whatever he is further pleased to require of them . iii. in the unity of the god-head there be three persons , of one substance , power , and eternity , god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost : the father is of none , neither begotten , nor proceeding ; the son is eternally begotten of the father ; the holy ghost eternally proceeding from the father and the son . which doctrine of the trinity is the foundation of all our communion with god , and comfortable dependence upon him . chap. iii. of gods eternal decree . god from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass : yet so , as thereby neither is god the author of sin , nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures , nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away , but rather established . ii. although god knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions , yet hath he not decreed any thing , because he foresaw it as future , or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions . iii. by the decree of god for the manifestation of his glory , some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life , and others fore-ordained to everlasting death . iv. these angels and men thus predestinated , and fore-ordained , are particularly and unchangeably designed , and their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished . v. those of mankinde that are predestinated unto life , god , before the foundation of the world was laid , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will , hath chosen in christ unto everlasting glory , out of his meer free grace and love , without any fore-sight of faith or good works , or perseverance in either of them , or any other thing in the creature , as conditions or causes moving him thereunto , and all to the praise of his glorious grace . vi . as god hath appointed the elect unto glory , so hath he by the eternal and most free purpose of his will fore-ordained all the means thereunto : wherefore they who are elected , being faln in adam , are redeemed by christ , are effectually called unto faith in christ by his spirit working in due season , are justified , adopted , sanctified , and kept by his power , through faith , unto salvation . neither are any other redeemed by christ , or effectually called , justified , adopted , sanctified and saved , but the elect onely . vii . the rest of mankinde god was pleased , according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will , whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy , as he pleaseth , for the glory of his soveraign power over his creatures , to pass by , and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin to the praise of his glorious justice . viii . the doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care , that men attending the will of god revealed in his word , and yielding obedience thereunto , may from the certainty of their effectual vocation , be assured of their eternal election . so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise , reverence and admiration of god , and of humility , diligence , and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel . chap. iv. of creation . it pleased god the father , son and holy ghost , for the manifestation of the glory of his eternal power , wisdom and goodness , in the beginning to create or make of nothing the world , and all things therein , whether visible or invisible , in the space of six days , and all very good . ii. after god had made all other creatures , he created man , male and female , with reasonable and immortal souls , endued with knowledge , righteousness and true holiness , after his own image , having the law of god written in their heart , and power to fulfil it ; and yet under a possibility of transgressing , being left to the liberty of their own will , which was subject unto change . besides this law written in their hearts , they received a command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ; which whiles they kept , they were happy in their communion with god , and had dominion over the creatures . chap. v. of providence . god the great creator of all things , doth uphold , direct , dispose and govern all creatures , actions , and things from the greatest even to the least by his most wise and holy providence , according unto his infallible fore-knowledge , and the free and immutable counsel of his own will , to the praise of the glory of his wisdom , power , justice , goodness and mercy . ii. although in relation to the fore-knowledge and decree of god , the first caufe , all things come to pass immutably , and infallibly ; yet by the same providence he ordereth them to fall out , according to the nature of second causes , either necessarily , freely , or contingently . iii. god in his ordinary providence maketh use of means , yet is free to work without , above , and against them at his pleasure . iv. the almighty power , unsearchable wisdom , and infinite goodness of god , so far manifest themselves in his providence , in that his determinate counsel extendeth it self even to the first fall , and all other sins of angels and men ( and that not by a bare permission ) which also he most wisely and powerfully boundeth , and otherwise ordereth and governeth in a manifold dispensation to his own most holy ends ; yet so , as the sinfulness thereof proceedeth onely from the creature , and not from god , who being most holy and righteous , neither is , nor can be the author or approver of sin . v. the most wise , righteous and gracious god doth oftentimes leave for a season his own children to manifold temptations , and the corruption of their own hearts , to chastise them for their former sins , or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption , and deceitfulness of their hearts , that they may be humbled ; and to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon himself , and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin , and for sundry other just and holy ends . vi . as for those wicked and ungodly men , whom god as a righteous judge , for former sins , doth blinde and harden , from them he not onely withholdeth his grace , whereby they might have been inlightned in their understandings , and wrought upon in their hearts ; but sometimes also withdraweth the gifts which they had , and exposeth them to such objects , as their corruption makes occasions of sin ; and withal gives them over to their own lusts , the temptations of the world , and the power of satan ; whereby it comes to pass that they harden themselves , even under those means which god useth for the softning of others . vii . as the providence of god doth in general reach to all creatures , so after a most special maner it taketh care of his church , and disposeth all things to the good thereof . chap. vi . of the fall of man , of sin , and of the punishment thereof . god having made a covenant of works and life , thereupon , with our first parents and all their posterity in them , they being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of satan , did wilfully transgress the law of their creation , and break the covenant in eating the forbidden fruit . ii. by this sin they , and we in them , fell from original righteousness and communion with god , and so became dead in sin , and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body . iii. they being the root , and by gods appointment standing in the room and stead of all mankinde , the guilt of this sin was imputed , and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation . iv. from this original corruption , whereby we are utterly indisposed , disabled and made opposite to all good , and wholly inclined to all evil , do proceed all actual transgression . v. this corruption of nature during this life , doth remain in those that are regenerated ; and although it be through christ pardoned and mortified , yet both it self and all the motions thereof are truely and properly sin . vi . every sin , both original and actual , being a transgression of the righteous law of god , and contrary thereunto , doth in its own nature bring guilt upon the sinner , whereby he is bound over to the wrath of god , and curse of the law , and so made subject to death , with all miseries spiritual , temporal and eternal . chap. vii . of gods covenant with man . the distance between god and the creature is so great , that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their creator , yet they could never have attained the reward of life , but by some voluntary condescension on gods part , which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant . ii. the first covenant made with man , was a covenant of works , wherein life was promised to adam , and in him to his posterity , upon condition of perfect and personal obedience . iii. man by his fall having made himself uncapable of life by that covenant , the lord was pleased to make a second , commonly called the covenant of grace ; wherein he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by jesus christ , requiring of them faith in him that they may be saved , and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto life , his holy spirit , to make them willing and able to believe . iv. this covenant of grace is frequently set forth in the scripture by the name of a testament , in reference to the death of jesus christ the testator , and to the everlasting inheritance , with all things belonging to it , therein bequeathed . v. although this covenant hath been differently and variously administred in respect of ordinances and institutions in the time of the law , and since the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet for the substance and efficacy of it , to all its spiritual and saving ends , it is one and the same ; upon the account of which various dispensations , it is called the old and new testament . chap. viii . of christ the mediator . it pleased god in his eternal purpose , to chuse and ordain the lord jesus his onely begotten son , according to a covenant made between them both , to be the mediator between god and man ; the prophet , priest , and king , the head and savior of his church , the heir of all things , and judge of the world ; unto whom he did from all eternity give a people to be his feed , and to be by him in time redeemed , called , justified , sanctified , and glorified . ii. the son of god , the second person in the trinity , being very and eternal god , of one substance , and equal with the father , did , when the fulness of time was come , take upon him mans nature , with all the essential properties and common infirmities thereof , yet without sin , being conceived by the power of the holy ghost in the womb of the virgin mary of her substance : so that two whole perfect and distinct natures , the godhead and the manhood , were inseparably joyned together in one person , without conversion , composition , or confusion ; which person is very god and very man , yet one christ , the onely mediator between god and man . iii. the lord jesus in his humane nature , thus united to the divine in the person of the son , was sanctified and anointed with the holy spirit above measure , having in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge , in whom it pleased the father that all fulness should dwell , to the end that being holy , harmless , undefiled , and full of grace and truth , he might be throughly furnished to execute the office of a mediator and surety ; which office he took not unto himself , but was thereunto called by his father , who also put all power and judgement into his hand , and gave him commandment to execute the same . iv. this office the lord jesus did most willingly undertake ; which that he might discharge , he was made under the law , and did perfectly fulfil it , and underwent the punishment due to us , which we should have born and suffered , being made sin and a curse for us , enduring most grievous torments immediately from god in his soul , and most painful sufferings in his body , was crucified , and died , was buried , and remained under the power of death , yet saw no corruption , on the third day he arose from the dead with the same body in which he suffered , with which also he ascended into heaven , and there sitteth at the right hand of his father , making intercession , and shall return to judge men and angels at the end of the world . v. the lord jesus by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself , which he through the eternal spirit once offered up unto god , hath fully satisfied the justice of god , and purchased not onely reconciliation , but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven , for all those whom the father hath given unto him . vi . athough the work of redemption was not actually wrought by christ , till after his incarnation ; yet the vertue , efficacy and benefits thereof were communicated to the elect in all ages successively from the beginning of the world , in and by those promises , types and sacrifices , wherein he was revealed and signified to be the seed of the woman , which should bruise the serpents head , and the lamb slain from the beginning of the world , being yesterday and to day the same , and for ever . vii . christ in the work of mediation acteth according to both natures , by each nature doing that which is proper to it self ; yet by reason of the unity of the person , that which is proper to one nature , is sometimes in scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature , viii . to all those for whom christ hath purchased redemption , he doth certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same , making intercession for them , and revealing unto them in and by the word , the mysteries of salvation , effectually perswading them by his spirit to believe and obey , and governing their hearts by his word and spirit , overcoming all their enemies by his almighty power and wisdom , in such maner and ways as are most consonant to his wonderful and unsearchable dispensation . chap. ix . of free-will . god hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice , that it is neither forced , nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to do good or evil . ii. man in his state of innocency had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to god ; but yet mutably , so that he might fall from it . iii. man by his fall into a state of sin , hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation ; so as a natural man being altogether averse from that good , and dead in sin , is not able by his own strength to convert himself , or to prepare himself thereunto . iv. when god converts a sinner , and translates him into the state of grace , he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin , and by his grace alone inables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good ; yet so , as that by reason of his remaining corruption , he doth not perfectly nor onely will that which is good , but doth also will that which is evil . v. the will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory onely . chap. x. of effectual calling . all those whom god hath predestinated unto life , and those onely , he is pleased in his appointed and accepted time effectually to call by his word and spirit , out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature , to grace and salvation by jesus christ , inlightning their mindes spiritually and savingly to understand the things of god , taking away their heart of stone , and giving unto them an heart of flesh , renewing their wills , and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good , and effectually drawing them to jesus christ ; yet so , as they come most freely , being made willing by his grace . ii. this effectual call is of gods free and special grace alone , not from any thing at all foreseen in man , who is altogether passive therein , until being quickned and renewed by the holy spirit , he is thereby enabled to answer this call , and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it . iii. elect infants dying in infancy , are regenerated and saved by christ , who worketh when , and where , and how he pleaseth : so also are all other elect persons who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the ministery of the word . iv. others not elected , although they may be called by the ministery of the word , and may have some common operations of the spirit , yet not being effectually drawn by the father , they neither do nor can come unto christ , and therefore cannot be saved ; much less can men not professing the christian religion , be saved in any other way whatsoever , be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature , and the law of that religion they do profess : and to assert and maintain that they may , is very pernicious , and to be detested . chap. xi . of justification . those whom god effectually calleth , he also freely justifieth , not by infusing righteousness into them , but by pardoning their sins , and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous , not for any thing wrought in them , or done by them , but for christs sake alone ; nor by imputing faith it self , the act of believing , or any other evangelical obedience to them , as their righteousness , but by imputing christs active obedience unto the whole law , and passive obedience in his death , for their whole and sole righteousness , they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith , which faith they have not of themselves , it is the gift of god . ii. faith thus receiving and resting on christ , and his righteousness , is the alone instrument of justification ; yet it is not alone in the person justified , but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces , and is no dead faith , but worketh by love . iii. christ by his obedience and death did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified , and did by the sacrifice of himself , in the blood of his cross , undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them , make a proper , real , and full satisfaction to gods justice in their behalf : yet in as much as he was given by the father for them , and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead , and both freely , not for any thing in them , their justification is onely of free grace , that both the exact justice and rich grace of god might be glorified in the justification of sinners . iv. god did from all eternity decree to justifie all the elect , and christ did in the fulness of time die for their sins , and rise again for their justification : nevertheless , they are not justified personally , until the holy spirit doth in due time actually apply christ unto them . v. god doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified ; and although they can never fall from the state of justification , yet they may by their sins fall under gods fatherly displeasure : and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them , until they humble themselves , confess their sins , beg pardon , and renew their faith and repentance . vi . the justification of believers under the old testament , was in all these respects one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament . chap. xii . of adoption . all those that are justified , god vouchsafeth in and for his onely son jesus christ to make partakers of the grace of adoption , by which they are taken into the number , and enjoy the liberties and priviledges of the children of god , have this name put upon them , receive the spirit of adoption , have access to the throne of grace with boldness , are enabled to cry abba father , are pitied , protected , provided for , and chastened by him as by a father , yet never cast off , but sealed to the day of redemption , and inherit the promises as heirs of everlasting salvation . chap. xiii . of sanctification . they that are united to christ , effectually called and regenerated , having a new heart and a new spirit created in them , through the vertue of christs death and resurrection , are also further sanctified really and personally through the same vertue , by his word and spirit dwelling in them ; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed , and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakned and mortified , and they more and more quickned , and strengthned in all saving graces , to the practice of all true holiness , without which no man shall see the lord . ii. this sanctification is throughout in the whole man , yet imperfect in this life , there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part , whence ariseth a continual and irreconcileable war , the flesh lusting against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh . iii. in which war , although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail , yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying spirit of christ , the regenerate part doth overcome , and so the saints grow in grace , perfecting holiness in the fear of god . chap. xiv . of saving faith . the grace of faith , whereby the elect are inabled to believe to the saving of their souls , is the work of the spirit of christ in their hearts , and is ordinarily wrought by the ministery of the word ; by which also , and by the administration of the seals , prayer , and other means , it is increased and strengthened . ii. by this faith a christian believeth to be true whatsoever is revealed in the word , for the authority of god himself speaking therein , and acteth differently upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth , yielding obedience to the commands , trembling at the threatnings , and embracing the promises of god for this life , and that which is to come . but the principal acts of saving faith are , accepting , receiving , and resting upon christ alone , for justification , sanctification , and eternal life , by vertue of the covenant of grace . iii. this faith , although it be different in degrees , and may be weak or strong , yet it is in the least degree of it different in the kinde or nature of it ( as is all other saving grace ) from the faith and common grace of temporary believers ; and therefore , though it may be many times assailed and weakned , yet it gets the victory , growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through christ , who is both the author and finisher of our faith . chap. xv . of repentance unto life and salvation . such of the elect as are converted at riper years , having sometime lived in the state of nature , and therein served divers lusts and pleasures , god in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life . ii. whereas there is none that doth good , and sinneth not , and the best of men may through the power and deceitfulness of their corruptions dwelling in them , with the prevalency of temptation , fall into great sins and provocations ; god hath in the covenant of grace mercifully provided , that believers so sinning and falling , be renewed through repentance unto salvation . iii. this saving repentance is an evangelical grace , whereby a person being by the holy ghost made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin , doth by faith in christ humble himself for it with godly sorrow , detestation of it , and self-abhorrency , praying for pardon and strength of grace , with a purpose , and endeavor by supplies of the spirit , to walk before god unto all well-pleasing in all things . iv. as repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives , upon the account of the body of death , and the motions thereof ; so it is every mans duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly . v. such is the provision which god hath made through christ in the covenant of grace , for the preservation of believers unto salvation , that although there is no sin so small , but it deserves damnation ; yet there is no sin so great , that it shall bring damnation on them who truly repent ; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary . chap. xvi . of good works . good works are onely such as god hath commanded in his holy word , and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blinde zeal , or upon any pretence of good intentions . ii. these good works done in obedience to gods commandments , are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith , and by them believers manifest their thankfulness , strengthen their assurance , edifie their brethren , adorn the profession of the gospel , stop the mouthes of the adversaries , and glorifie god , whose workmanship they are , created in christ jesus thereunto , that having their fruit unto holiness , they may have the end eternal life . iii. their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves , but wholly from the spirit of christ : and that they may be enabled thereunto , besides the graces they have already received , there is required an actual influence of the same holy spirit to work in them to will and to do , of his good pleasure ; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent , as if they were not bound to perform any duty , unless upon a special motion of the spirit , but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of god that is in them . iv. they who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life , are so far from being able to supererogate , and to do more then god requires , as that they fall short of much , which in duty they are bound to do . v. we cannnot by our best works merit pardon of sin , or eternal life at the hand of god , by reason of the great disproportion that is between them , and the glory to come ; and the infinite distance that is between us , and god , whom by them we can neither profit , nor ●●tisfie for the debt of our former sins ; but when we have done all we can , we have done but our duty , and are unprofitable servants : and because as they are good , they proceed from his spirit , and as they are wrought by us , they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection , that they cannot endure the severity of gods judgement . vi . yet notwithstanding , the persons of believers being accepted through christ , their good works also are accepted in him , not as though they were in this life wholly unblameable and unreproveable in gods sight , but that he looking upon them in his son is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere , although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections . vii . works done by unregenerate men , although for the matter of them they may be things which god commands , and of good use both to themselves and to others : yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith , nor are done in a right maner , according to the word ; not to a right end , the glory of god ; they are therefore sinful , and cannot please god , nor make a man meet to receive grace from god ; and yet their neglect of them is more sinful , and displeasing unto god . chap. xvii . of the perseverance of the saints . they whom god hath accepted in his beloved , effectually called and sanctified by his spirit , can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace , but shall certainly persevere therein to the end , and be eternally saved . ii. this perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free-will , but upon the immutability of the decree of election , from the free and unchangeable love of god the father , upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of jesus christ , and union with him , the oath of god , the abiding of his spirit , and of the seed of god within them , and the nature of the covenant of grace , from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof . iii. and though they may through the temptation of satan , and of the world , the prevalency of corruption remaining in them , and the neglect of the means of their preservation , fall into grievous sins , and for a time continue therein , whereby they incur gods displeasure , and grieve his holy spirit , come to have their graces and comforts impaired , have their hearts hardned , and their consciences wounded , hurt and scandalize others , and bring temporal judgements upon themselves ; yet they are and shall be kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation . chap. xviii . of the assurance of grace and salvation . although temporary believers , and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes , and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of god , and state of salvation , which hope of theirs shall perish ; yet such as truly believe in the lord jesus , and love him in sincerity , endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him , may in this life be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace , and may rejoyce in the hope of the glory of god , which hope shall never make them ashamed . ii. this certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable perswasion , grounded upon a fallible hope , but and infallible assurance of faith , founded on the blood and righteousness of christ , revealed in the gospel , and also upon the inward evidence of those graces unto which promises are made , and on the immediate witness of the spirit , testifying our adoption , and as a fruit thereof , leaving the heart more humbl● and holy . iii. this infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith , but that a true believer may wait long , and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it ; yet being inabled by the spirit to know the things which are freely given him of god , he may without extraordinary revelation in the right use of ordinary means attain thereunto : and therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure , that thereby his heart may be inlarged in peace and joy in the holy ghost , in love and thankfulness to god , and in strength and chearfulness in the duties of obedience , the proper fruits of this assurance ; so far is it from inclining men to loosness . iv. true believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken , diminished and intermitted , as by negligence in preserving of it , by falling into some special sin , which woundeth the conscience , and grieveth the spirit , by some sudden or vehement temptation , by gods withdrawing the light of his countenance , suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness , and to have no light ; yet are they neither utterly destitute of that seed of god , and life of faith , that love of christ and the brethren , that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty , out of which by the operation of the spirit , this assurance may in due time be revived , and by the which in the mean time they are supported from utter despair . chap. xix . of the law of god . god gave to adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart , and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , as a covenant of works , by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal , entire , exact and perpetual obedience , promised life upon the fulfilling , and threatned death upon the breach of it , and indued him with power and ability to keep it . ii. this law so written in the heart , continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall of man , and was delivered by god upon mount sinai in ten commandments , and written in two tables , the four first commandments containing our duty towards god , and the other six our duty to man . iii. beside this law commonly called moral , god was pleased to give to the people of israel ceremonial laws , containing several typical ordinances , partly of worship , prefiguring christ , his graces , actions , sufferings and benefits , and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties : all which ceremonial laws being appointed onely to the time of reformation , are by jesus christ the true messiah and onely law-giver , who was furnished with power from the father for that end , abrogated and taken away . iv. to them also he gave sundry judicial laws , which expired together with the state of that people , not obliging any now by vertue of that institution , their general equity onely being still of moral use . v. the moral law doth for ever binde all , as well justified persons as others , to the obedience thereof ▪ and that not onely in regard of the matter contained in it , but also in respect of the authority of god the creator , who gave it ▪ neither doth christ in the gospel any way dissolve , but much strengthen this obligation . vi . although true believers be not under the law , as a covenant of works , to be thereby justified or condemned ; yet it is of great use to them as well as to others , in that , as a rule of life , informing them of the will of god , and their duty , it directs and bindes them to walk accordingly , discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature , hearts and lives , so as examining themselves thereby , they may come to further conviction of humiliation for , and hatred against sin , together with a clearer sight of the need they have of christ , and the perfection of his obedience . it is likewise of use to the regenerate , to restrain their corruptions , in that it forbids sin , and the threatnings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve , and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them , although freed from the curse thereof threatned in the law . the promises of it in like maner shew them gods approbation of obedience , and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof , although not as due to them by the law , as a covenant of works ; so as a mans doing good , and refraining from evil , because the law incourageth to the one , and deterreth from the other , is no evidence of his being under the law , and not under grace . vii . neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel , but do sweetly comply with it , the spirit of christ subduing and inabling the will of man to do that freely and chearfully , which the will of god revealed in the law required to be done . chap. xx . of the gospel , and of the extent of the grace thereof . the covenant of works being broken by sin , and made unprofitable unto life , god was pleased to give unto the elect the promise of christ , the seed of the woman , as the means of calling them , and begetting in them faith and repentance : in this promise , the gospel , as to the substance of it , was revealed , and was therein effectual for the conversion and salvation of sinners . ii. this promise of christ , and salvation by him , is revealed onely in and by the word of god , neither do the works of creation or providence , with the light of nature , make discovery of christ , or of grace by him , so much as in a general or obscure way ; much less that men destitute of the revelation of him by the promise or gospel , should be inabled thereby to attain saving faith or repentance . iii. the revelation of the gospel unto sinners made in divers times , and by sundry parts , with the addition of promises and precepts for the obedience required therein , as to the nations and persons to whom it is granted , is meerly of the soveraign will and good pleasure of god , not being annexed by vertue of any promise to the due improvement of mens natural abilities , by vertue of common light received without it , which none ever did make , or can so do : and therefore in all ages the preaching of the gospel hath been granted unto persons and nations , as to the extent or straitning of it , in great variety , according to the counsel of the will of god . iv. although the gospel be the onely outward means of revealing christ and saving grace , and is , as such , abundantly sufficient thereunto ; yet that men who are dead in trespasses , may be born again , quickned or regenerated , there is moreover necessary an effectual , irresistible work of the holy ghost upon the whole soul , for the producing in them a new spiritual life , without which no other means are sufficient for their conversion unto god . chap. xxi . of christian liberty , and liberty of conscience . the liberty which christ hath purchased for believers under the gospel , consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin , the condemning wrath of god , the rigor and curse of the law , and in their being delivered from this present evil world , bondage to satan , and dominion of sin , from the evil of afflictions , the fear and sting of death , the victory of the grave , and everlasting damnation ; as also in their free access to god , and their yielding obedience unto him , not out of slavish fear , but a childe-like love and willing minde : all which were common also to believers under the law , for the substance of them ; but under the new testament the liberty of christians : is further inlarged in their freedom from the yoak of the ceremonial law , the whole legal administration of the covenant of grace , to which the jewish church was subjected , and in greater boldness of access to the throne of grace , and in fuller communications of the free spirit of god , then believers under the law did ordinarily partake of . ii. god alone is lord of the conscience , and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men , which are in any thing contrary to his word , or not contained in it ; so that to believe such doctrines , or to obey such commands out of conscience , is to betray true liberty of conscience ; and the requiring of an implicit faith , and an absolute and blinde obedience , is to destroy liberty of conscience , and reason also . iii. they who upon pretence of christian liberty do practice any sin , or cherish any lust , as they do thereby pervert the main designe of the grace of the gospel to their own destruction ; so they wholly destroy the end of christian liberty , which is , that being delivered out of the hands of our enemies , we might serve the lord without fear , in holiness and righteousness before him all the days of our life . chap. xxii . of religious worship , and the sabbath-day . the light of nature sheweth that there is a god , who hath lordship and soveraignty over all , is just , good , and doth good unto all , and is therefore to be feared , loved , praised , called upon , trusted in , and served with all the heart , and all the soul , and with all the might : but the acceptable way of worshipping the true god is instituted by himself , and so limited by his own revealed will , that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men , or the suggestions of satan , under any visible representations , or any other way not prescribed in the holy scripture . ii. religious worship is to be given to god the father , son , and holy ghost , and to him alone ; not to angels , saints , or any other creatures , and since the fall , not without a mediator , nor in the mediation of any other but of christ alone . iii. prayer with thanksgiving , being one special part of natural worship , is by god required of all men , but that it may be accepted , it is to be made in the name of the son by the help of his spirit , according to his will , with understanding , reverence , humility , fervency , faith , love , and perseverance , and when with others , in a known tongue . iv. prayer is to be made for things lawful , and for all sorts of men living , or that shall live hereafter , but not for the dead , nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death . v. the reading of the scriptures , preaching , and hearing the word of god , singing of psalms , as also the administration of baptism and the lords supper , are all parts of religious worship of god , to be performed in obedience unto god with understanding , faith , reverence , and godly fear . solemn humiliations , with fastings and thanksgiving upon special occasions , are in their several times and seasons to be used in a holy and religious maner . vi . neither prayer , nor any other part of religious worship , is now under the gospel either tyed unto , or made more acceptable by any place , in which it is performed , or towards which it is directed ; but god is to be worshipped every where in spirit and in truth , as in private families dayly , and in secret each one by himself , so more solemnly in the publique assemblies , which are not carelesly nor wilfully to be neglected , or forsaken , when god by his word of providence calleth thereunto . vii . as it is of the law of nature , that in general a proportion of time by gods appointment be set apart for the worship of god ; so by his word in a positive , moral , and perpetual commandment , binding all men in all ages , he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him , which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of christ , was the last day of the week , and from the resurrection of christ was changed into the first day of the week , which in scripture is called the lords day , and is to be continued to the end of the world as the christian sabbath , the observation of the last day of the week being abolished . viii . this sabbath is then kept holy unto the lord , when men after a due preparing of their hearts , and ordering their common affairs beforehand , do not onely observe an holy rest all the day from their own works , words , and thoughts about their worldly imployments and recreations , but also are taken up the whole time in the publique and private exercises of his worship , and in the duties of necessity and mercy . chap. xxiii . of lawful oaths and vows . a lawful oath is a part of religious worship , wherein the person swearing in truth , righteousness and judgement , solemnly calleth god to witness what he asserteth or promiseth , and to judge him according to the truth or falshood of what he sweareth . ii. the name of god onely is that by which men ought to swear , and therein it is to be used with all holy fear and reverence : therefore to swear vainly , or rashly , by that glorious or dreadful name , or to swear at all by any other thing , is sinful , and to be abhorred ; yet as in matters of weight and moment an oath is warranted by the word of god under the new testament , as well as under the old ; so a lawful oath , being imposed by lawful authority in such matters , ought to be taken . iii. whosoever taketh an oath warranted by the word of god , ought duly to consider the weightiness of so solemn an act , and therein to avouch nothing but what he is fully perswaded is the truth : neither may any man binde himself by oath to any thing , but what is good and just , and what he believeth so to be , and what he is able and resolved to perform . yet it is a sin to refuse an oath touching any thing that is good and just , being lawfully imposed by authority . iv. an oath is to be taken in the plain and common sense of the words , without equivocation or mental reservation : it cannot oblige to sin , but in any thing not sinful being taken it bindes to performance , although to a mans own hurt ; nor is it to be violated , although made to hereticks or infidels . v. a vow , which is not to be made to any creature , but god alone , is of the like nature with a promissory oath , and ought to be made with the like religious care , and to be performed with the like faithfulness . vi . popish monasticall vows of perpetual single life , professed poverty , and regular obedience , are so far from being degrees of higher perfection , that they are superstitious and sinful snares , in which no christian may intangle himself . chap. xxiv . of the civil magistrate . god the supreme lord and king of all the world , hath ordained civil magistrates to be under him , over the people for his own glory and the publique good ; and to this end hath armed them with the power of the sword , for the defence and incouragement of them that do good , and for the punishment of evil doers . ii. it is lawful for christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate , when called thereunto : in the management whereof , as they ought especially to maintain justice and peace , according to the wholsome laws of each commonwealth ; so for that end they may lawfully now under the new testament wage war upon just and necessary occasion . iii. although the magistrate is bound to incourage , promote , and protect the professors and profession of the gospel , and to manage and order civil administrations in a due subserviency to the interest of christ in the world , and to that end to take care that men of corrupt mindes and conversations do not licentiously publish and divulge blasphemies and errors , in their own nature , subverting the faith , and inevitably destroying the souls of them that receive them : yet in such differences about the doctrines of the gospel , or ways of the worship of god , as may befal men exercising a good conscience , manifesting it in their conversation , and holding the foundation , not disturbing others in their ways or worship that differ from them ; there is no warrant for the magistrate under the gospel to abridge them of their liberty . iv. it is the duty of people to pray for magistrates , to honor their persons , to pay them tribute and other dues , to obey their lawful commands , and to be subject to their authority for conscience sake . infidelity , or difference in religion , doth not make void the magistrates just and legal authority , nor free the people from their obedience to him : from which ecclesiastical persons are not exempted , much less hath the pope any power or jurisdiction over them in their dominions , or over any of their people , and least of all to deprive them of their dominions or lives , if he shall judge them to be hereticks , or upon any other pretence whatsoever . chap. xxv . of marriage . marriage is to be between one man and one woman : neither is it lawful for any man to have more then one wife , nor for any woman to have more then one husband at the same time . ii. marriage was ordained for the mutual help of husband and wife , for the increase of mankinde with a legitimate issue , and of the church with an holy seed , and for preventing of uncleanness . iii. it is lawful for all sorts of people to marry , who are able with judgement to give their consent . yet it is the duty of christians to marry in the lord , and therefore such as profess the true reformed religion , should not marry with infidels , papists , or other idolaters : neither should such as are godly , be unequally yoaked by marrying with such as are wicked in their life , or maintain damnable heresie . iv. marriage ought not to be within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity forbidden in the word ; nor can such incestuous marriages ever be made lawful by any law of man , or consent of parties , so as those persons may live together as man and wife . chap. xxvi . of the church . the catholique or universal church , which is invisible , consists of the whole number of the elect , that have been , are , or shall be gathered into one under christ , the head thereof , and is the spouse , the body , the fulness of him that filleth all in all . ii. the whole body of men throughout the world , professing the faith of the gospel and obedience unto god by christ according unto it , not destroying their own profession by any errors everting the foundation , or unholiness of conversation , are , and may be called the visible catholique church of christ , although as such it is not intrusted with the administration of any ordinances , or have any officers to rule or govern in , or over the whole body . iii. the purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error , and some have so degenerated as to become no churches of christ , but synagogues of satan : nevertheless christ always hath had , and ever shall have a visible kingdom in this world , to the end thereof , of such as believe in him , and make profession of his name . iv. there is no other head of the church but the lord jesus christ , nor can the pope of rome in any sense be head thereof ; but is that antichrist , that man of sin , and son of perdition , that exalteth himself in the church against christ , and all that is called god , whom the lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming . v. as the lord in his care and love towards his church , hath in his infinite wise providence exercised it with great variety in all ages , for the good of them that love him , and his own glory : so according to his promise , we expect that in the latter days , antichrist being destroyed , the jews called , and the adversaries of the kingdom of his dear son broken , the churches of christ being inlarged and edified through a free and plentiful communication of light and grace , shall enjoy in this world a more quiet , peaceable and glorious condition then they have enjoyed . chap. xxvii . of the communion of saints . all saints that are united to jesus christ their head by his spirit and faith , although they are not made thereby one person with him , have fellowship in his graces , sufferings , death , resurrection and glory ▪ and being united to one another in love , they have communion in each others gifts and graces , and are obliged to the performance of such duties , publique and private , as do conduce to their mutual good , both in the inward and outward man . ii. all saints are bound to maintain an holy fellowship and communion in the worship of god , and in performing such other spiritual services as tend to their mutual edification ; as also in relieving each other in outward things , according to their several abilities and necessities : which communion , though especially to be exercised by them in the relations wherein they stand , whether in families or churches , yet as god offereth opportunity , is to be extended unto all those who in every place call upon the name of the lord jesus . chap. xxviii . of the sacraments . sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace , immediately instituted by christ , to represent him and his benefits , and to confirm our interest in him , and solemnly to engage us to the service of god in christ , according to his word . ii. there is in every sacrament a spiritual relation , or sacramental union between the sign and the thing signified ; whence it comes to pass that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other . iii. the grace which is exhibited in or by the sacraments rightly used , is not conferred by any power in them , neither doth the efficacy of a sacrament depend upon the piety or intention of him that doth administer it , but upon the work of the spirit , and the word of institution , which contains together with a precept authorizing the use thereof , a promise of benefit to worthy receivers . iv. there be onely two sacraments ordained by christ our lord in the gospel , that is to say , baptism and the lords supper ; neither of which may be dispensed by any but by a minister of the word lawfully called . v. the sacraments of the old testament , in regard of the spiritual things thereby signified and exhibited , were for substance the same with those of the new . chap. xxix . of baptism . baptism is a sacrament of the new testament , ordained by jesus christ to be unto the party baptized a sign and seal of the covenant of grace , of his ingraffing into christ , of regeneration , of remission of sins , and of his giving up unto god through jesus christ to walk in newness of life ; which ordinance is by christs own appointment to be continued in his church until the end of the world . ii. the outward element to be used in this ordinance , is water , wherewith the party is to be baptized in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , by a minister of the gospel lawfully called . iii. dipping of the person into the water is not necessary , but baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person . iv. not onely those that do actually profess faith in , and obedience unto christ , but also the infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized , and those onely . v. although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance , yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it , as that no person can be regenerated or saved without it ; or that all that are baptized , are undoubtedly regenerated . vi . the efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered , yet notwithstanding , by the right use of this ordinance , the grace promised is not onely offered , but really exhibited and conferred by the holy ghost to such ( whether of age , or infants ) as that grace belongeth unto , according to the counsel of gods own will in his appointed time . vii . baptism is but once to be administered to any person . chap. xxx . of the lords supper . our lord jesus in the night wherein he was betrayed , instituted the sacrament of his body and blood , called the lords supper , to be observed in his churches unto the end of the world , for the perpetual remembrance , and shewing forth of the sacrifice of himself in his death , the sealing of all benefits thereof unto true believers , their spiritual nourishment , and growth in him , their further ingagement in and to all duties which they owe unto him , and to be a bond and pledge of their communion with him , and with each other . ii. in this sacrament christ is not offered up to his father , nor any real sacrifice made at all for remission of sin of the quick or dead , but onely a memorial of that one offering up of himself by himself upon the cross once for all , and a spiritual oblation of all possible praise unto god for the same ; so that the popish sacrifice of the mass ( as they call it ) is most abominable , injurious to christs own onely sacrifice , the alone propitiation for all the sins of the elect. iii. the lord jesus hath in this ordinance appointed his ministers to pray and bless the elements of bread and wine , and thereby to set them apart from a common to an holy use , and to take and break the bread , to take the cup , and ( they communicating also themselves ) to give both to the communicants , but to none who are not then present in the congregation . iv. private masses , or receiving the sacrament by a priest , or any other alone , as likewise the denial of the cup to the people , worshiping the elements , the lifting them up , or carrying them about for adoration , and the reserving them for any pretended religious use , are all contrary to the nature of this sacrament , and to the institution of christ . v. the outward elements in this sacrament duely set apart to the uses ordained by christ , have such relation to him crucified , as that truly , yet sacramentally onely , they are sometimes called by the name of the things they represent , to wit , the body and blood of christ ; albeit in substance and nature they still remain truly and onely bread and wine as they were before . vi . that doctrine which maintains a change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of christs body and blood ( commonly called transubstantiation ) by consecration of a priest , or by any other way , is repugnant not to scripture alone , but even to common sense and reason , overthroweth the nature of the sacrament , and hath been , and is the cause of manifold superstitions , yea of gross idolatries . vii . worthy receivers outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this sacrament , do then also inwardly by faith , really and indeed , yet not carnally and corporally , but spiritually , receive and feed upon christ crucified , and all benefits of his death ; the body and blood of christ being then not corporally or carnally in , with , or under the bread or wine ; yet as really , but spiritually present to the faith of believers in that ordinance , as the elements themselves are to their outward senses . viii . all ignorant and ungodly persons , as they are unfit to enjoy communion with christ , so are they unworthy of the lords table , and cannot without great sin against him , whilest they remain such , partake of these holy mysteries , or be admitted thereunto ; yea whosoever shall receive unworthily , are guilty of the body and blood of the lord , eating and drinking judgement to themselves . chap. xxxi . of the state of man after death , and of the resurrection of the dead . the bodies of men after death return to dust , and see corruption , but their souls ( which neither die nor sleep ) having an immortal subsistence , immediately return to god who gave them , the souls of the righteous being then made perfect in holiness , are received into the highest heavens , where they behold the face of god in light and glory , waiting for the full redemption of their bodies : and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell , where they remain in torment and utter darkness , reserved to the judgement of the great day : besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies , the scripture acknowledgeth none . ii. at the last day such as are found alive shall not die , but be changed , and all the dead shall be raised up with the self-same bodies , and none other , although with different qualities , which shall be united again to their souls for ever . iii. the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of christ be raised to dishonor ; the bodies of the just by his spirit unto honor , and be made conformable to his own glorious body . chap. xxxii . of the last judgement . god hath appointed a day wherein he will judge the world in righteousness by jesus christ , to whom all power and judgement is given of the father ; in which day not onely the apostate angels shall be judged , but likewise all persons that have lived upon earth , shall appear before the tribunal of christ , to give an account of their thoughts , words and deeds , and to receive according to what they have done in the body , whether good or evil . ii. the end of gods appointing this day , is for the manifestation of the glory of his mercy in the eternal salvation of the elect , and of his justice in the damnation of the reprobate , who are wicked and disobedient : for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life , and receive that fulness of joy and glory , with everlasting reward in the presence of the lord ; but the wicked who know not god , and obey not the gospel of jesus christ , shall be cast into eternal torments , and be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power . iii. as christ would have us to be certainly perswaded that there shall be a judgement , both to deter all men from sin , and for the greater consolation of the godly in their adversity ; so will he have that day unknown to men , that they may shake off all carnal security , and be always watchful , because they know not at what hour the lord will come , and may be ever prepared to say , come lord jesus , come quickly . amen . books sold by john allen at the sun rising in pauls church-yard , viz. mr. caryl's fifth volume on the book of job , in quarto . mr. caryl's seventh volume on the book of job , in quarto . beza novum testamentum , in folio . mr. allens scripture chronology , in quarto . dr. preston's riches of mercy , in quarto . buxtorfius's lexicon , the best sort , in large octavo . mr. baxter's call to the unconverted . mr. cotton on the covenant , intended suddenly for the press . mr. lukin's practice of godliness . mr. burgess of original sin . pareus on the revelation , in folio . mr. gataker against judicial astrology , wherein he proves it to be the way and practice of heathens , and ought not to be so much as named by them that profess the name of christ . esay . , . jer. . . of the institution of churches , and the order appointed in them by jesus christ . i. by the appointment of the father all power for the calling , institution , order or government of the church , is invested in a supreme and soveraign maner in the lord jesus christ , as king and head thereof . ii. in the execution of this power wherewith he is so entrusted , the lord jesus calleth out of the world unto communion with himself , those that are given unto him by his father , that they may walk before him in all the ways of obedience , which he prescribeth to them in his word . iii. those thus called ( through the ministry of the word by his spirit ) he commandeth to walk together in particular societies or churches , for their mutual edification , and the due performance of that publique worship , which he requireth of them in this world . iv. to each of these churches thus gathered , according unto his minde declared in his word , he hath given all that power and authority , which is any way needfull for their carrying on that order in worship and discipline , which he hath instituted for them to observe with commands and rules , for the due and right exerting and executing of that power . v. these particular churches thus appointed by the authority of christ , and intrusted with power from him for the ends before expressed , are each of them as unto those ends , the seat of that power which he is pleased to communicate to his saints or subjects in this world , so that as such they receive it immediately from himself . vi . besides these particular churches , there is not instituted by christ any church more extensive or catholique entrusted with power for the administration of his ordinances , or the execution of any authority in his name . vii . a particular church gathered and compleated according to the minde of christ , consists of officers and members : the lord christ having given to his called ones ( united according to his appointment in church-order ) liberty and power to choose persons fitted by the holy ghost for that purpose , to be over them and to minister to them in the lord . vii . the members of these churches are saints by calling , visibly manifesting and evidencing ( in and by their profession and walking ) their obedience unto that call of christ , who being further known to each other by their confession of the faith wrought in them by the power of god , declared by themselves or otherwise manifested , do willingly consent , to walk together according to the appointment of christ , giving up themselves to the lord , and to one another by the will of god in professed subjection to the ordinances of the gospel . ix . the officers appointed by christ to be chosen and set apart by the church so called , and gathered for the peculiar administration of ordinances , and execution of power or duty which he intrusts them with , or calls them to , to be continued to the end of the world , are pastors , teachers , elders , and deacons . x. churches thus gathered and assembling for the worship of god , are thereby visible and publique , and their assemblies ( in what place soever they are , according as they have liberty or opportunity ) are therefore church or publique assemblies . xi . the way appointed by christ for the calling of any person , fitted and gifted by the holy ghost , unto the office of pastor , teacher or elder in a church , is , that he be chosen thereunto by the common suffrage of the church it self , and solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer , with imposition of hands of the eldership of that church , if there be any before constituted therein : and of a deacon , that he be chosen by the like suffrage , and set apart by prayer , and the like imposition of hands . xii . the essence of this call of a pastor , teacher or elder unto office , consists in the election of the church , together with his acceptation of it , and separation by fasting and prayer : and those who are so chosen , though not set apart by imposition of hands , are rightly constituted ministers of jesus christ , in whose name and authority they exercise the ministery to them so committed . the calling of deacons consisteth in the like election and acceptation , with separation by prayer . xiii . although it be incumbent on the pastors and teachers of the churches to be instant in preaching the word , by way of office ; yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them , but that others also gifted and fitted by the holy ghost for it , and approved ( being by lawful ways and means in the providence of god called thereunto ) may publiquely , ordinarily and constantly perform it ; so that they give themselves up thereunto . xiv . however , they who are ingaged in the work of publique preaching , and enjoy the publique maintenance upon that account , are not thereby obliged to dispense the seals to any other then such as ( being saints by calling , and gathered according to the order of the gospel ) they stand related to , as pastors or teachers ; yet ought they not to neglect others living within their parochial bounds , but besides their constant publique preaching to them , they ought to enquire after their profiting by the word , instructing them in , and pressing upon them ( whether young or old ) the great doctrines of the gospel , even personally and particularly , so far as their strength and time will admit . xv . ordination alone without the election or precedent consent of the church , by those who formerly have been ordained by vertue of that power they have received by their ordination , doth not constitute any person a church officer , or communicate office power unto him . xvi . a church furnished with officers ( according to the minde of christ ) hath full power to administer all his ordinances ; and where there is want of any one or more officers required , that officer , or those which are in the church , may administer all the ordinances proper to their particular duty and offices , but where there are no teaching officers , none may administer the seals , nor can the church authorize any so to do . xvii . in the carrying on of church-administrations , no person ought to be added to the church , but by the consent of the church it self ; that so love ( without dissimulation ) may be preserved between all the members thereof . xviii . whereas the lord jesus christ hath appointed and instituted as a means of edification , that those who walk not according to the rules and laws appointed by him ( in respect of faith and life , so that just offence doth arise to the church thereby ) be censured in his name and authority : every church hath power in it self to exercise and execute all those censures appointed by him in the way and order prescribed in the gospel . xix . the censures so appointed by christ , are admonition and excommunication : and whereas some offences are or may be known onely to some , it is appointed by christ , that those to whom they are so known , do first admonish the offender in private : in publique offences where any sin , before all ; or in case of non-amendment upon private admonition , the offence being related to the church , and the offender not manifesting his repentance , he is to be duely admonished in the name of christ by the whole church , by the ministery of the elders of the church ; and if this censure prevail not for his repentance , then he is to be cast out by excommunication with the consent of the church . xx . as all bel●evers are bound to joyn themselves to particular church● , when and where they have opportunity so to do , so non● are to be admitted unto the priviledges of the churches who do not submit themselves to the rule of christ in the censures of the government of them . xxi . this being the way prescribed by christ in case of offence , no church-members upon any offences taken by them , having performed their duty required of them in this matter , ought to disturb any church-order , or absent themselv●s from the publique assemblies , or the administration of any ordinances upon that pretence , but to wait upon christ in the further proceeding of the church . xxii . the power of censures being seated by christ in a particular church , is to be exercised onely towards particular members of each church respectively as such ; and there is no power given by him unto any synods or ecclesiastical assemblies to excommunicate , or by their publique edicts to threaten excommunication , or other church-censures against churches , magistrates , or their people upon any account , no man being obnoxious to that censure , but upon his personal miscarriage , as a member of a particular church . xxiii . although the church is a society of men , assembling for the celebration of the ordinances according to the appointment of christ , yet every society assembling for that end or purpose , upon the account of cohab●●ation within any civil precincts and bounds , is not thereby constituted a church , seeing there may be wanting among ●hem , what is essentially required thereunto ; and therefore a believer living with others in such a precinct , may joyn h●mself with any church for his edification . xxiv . for the avoiding of differences that may otherwise arise , for the greater solemnity in the celebration of the ordinances of christ , and the opening a way for the large usefulness of the gifts and graces of the holy ghost ; saints living in one city or town , or within such distances as that they may conveniently assemble for divine worship , ought rather to joyn in one church for their mutual strengthning and edification , then to set up many distinct societies . xxv . as all churches and all the members of them are bound to pray continually for the good or prosperity of all the churches of christ in all places , and upon all occasions to further it ; ( every one within the bounds of their places and callings , in the exercise of their gifts and graces ) so the churches themselves ( when plan●ed by the providence of god , so as they may have opportunity and advantage for it ) ought to hold communion amongst themselves for their peace , increase of love , and mutual edification . xxvi . in cases o● difficulties or differences , either in point of doctrine , o●●n administrations , wherein either the churches in general ●●e concerned or any one church in their peace , union an● edification , or any member or members of any church 〈◊〉 injured in or by any proceeding in cens●●es , not agre●able to truth and order : it is according to the minde o● christ , that many churches holding communion togeth●r , do by their messengers meet in a synod or councel , to consider and give their advice in , or about that matter in ●ifference to be reported to all the churches concerned . howbeit these synods so assembled are not entrusted with any church-power , properly so called , or with any jurisdiction over the churches themselves , to exercise any censures , either over any churches or persons , or to impose their determinations on the churches or officers . xxvii . besides these occasional synods or councels , there are not instituted by christ any stated synods in a fixed combination of churches , or their officers in lesser or greater assemblies ; nor are there any synods appointed by christ in a way of subordination to one another . xxviii . persons that are joyned in church-fellowship , ought not lightly or without just cause to withdraw themselves from the communion of the church whereunto they are so joyned : nevertheless , where any person cannot continue in any church without his sin , either for want of the administration of any ordinances instituted by christ , or by his being notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- cor. . . acts . rom. . , , . v. . this perswasion cometh not of him that calleth you . gal. . . pet. . . pet. . . cor. . gal. . . heb. . . eph. . . . heb. . . heb. . . june . . aug. session ● . ordinance of march . . considerations and cautions from sion coll. june . . jus divinum minist. pub . by the provost of london , in the preface . puritanis . ang. by dr. aims near years since , as the opinions of whitehead , gilbe , fox , dearing , greenham , cartwright , venner , fulk , whitaker , rainold , perkins , &c. the due right of presbyteries, or, a peaceable plea for the government of the church of scotland ... by samuel rutherfurd ... rutherford, samuel, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing r estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : , :e , no ) the due right of presbyteries, or, a peaceable plea for the government of the church of scotland ... by samuel rutherfurd ... rutherford, samuel, ?- . [ ], [i.e. ] p. printed by e. griffin, for richard whittaker and andrew crook ..., london : . numerous errors in paging. errata: p. [ ]. this work appears on reels and . reproduction of originals in the yale university library and the thomason collection, british library. (from t.p.) . the way of the church of christ in new england in brotherly equality and independency, or coordination, without subjection of church to another -- . their apology for the said government, their answers to thirty and two questions are considered -- . a treatise for a church covenant is discussed -- . the arguments of mr. robinson in his justification of separation are discovered -- . his treatise, called, the peoples plea for the exercise of prophecy, is tryed -- . diverse late arguments against presbyteriall government, and the tower of synods are discussed, the power of the prince in matters ecclesiastical modestly considered & divers incident controversies resolved. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in 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michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of scotland -- government -- early works to . church polity -- early works to . presbyterianism -- early works to . congregational churches -- government -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - mona logarbo sampled and proofread - mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the due right of presbyteries , or , a peaceable plea for the government of the church of scotland , wherein is examined . the way of the church of christ in new england , in brotherly equality , and independency , or coordination , without subjection of one church to another . . their apology for the said government , their answers to thirty and two questions are considered . . a treatise for a church covenant is discussed . . the arguments of mr. robinson in his justification of separation are discovered . . his treatise , called , the peoples plea for the exercise of prophecy , is tryed . . diverse late arguments against presbyteriall government , and the power of synods are discussed , the power of the prince in matters ecclesiastical modestly considered , & divers incident controversies resolved . by samuel rutherfurd professor of divinity at saint andrewes . cant . . . who is she that looketh forth as the morning , faire as the moone , cleare as the sun , and terrible as an army with banners ? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 london , printed by e. griffin , for richard whittaker , and andrew crook and are to be sold at their shops in pauls church-yard , . to the most noble and potent lord archbald marquesse of argile , one of his majesties honourable privy councell , wisheth grace , mercy and peace . who knoweth ( most noble and potent lord ) how glorious it is , and how praise-worthy , when the mighty , and these who are a called the shields of the earth , and the cedars of lebanon cast their shadow over the city of god ? airie wits and broken spirits chase fame , but fame and glory shall chase him , who is ( as the spirit of god speaketh ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a sonne of courage , and one who hath done b many acts for the lord. the followers of christ are the sonnes of nobles c all blood is of one colour , holinesse maketh the difference . fortuna vitrea est , tum cum splendet , frangitur . things we rest on here be made of cristall glasse , while they glister , they are broken . plures tegit fortuna , quam tutor facit . the world may cover men , it cannot make them secure . but the lord is a sun and a shield . what hath jesus christ on earth , which he loveth , as he doth his church ? what a created peece is the true church ? a woman clothed with the sunne , and the moone under her feet , and upon her head a crowne of twelve starres . her very servants are the e glory of christ. yet is this poore woman in brittaine , crying , travelling in birth , pained while shee be delivered , because of the idolatry of the land , and our defection and apostacy practised , countenanced , tolerated in both kingdomes . many graves , many widowes , and the land turned into a field of blood are the just fruits of many altars , of masse-idolls , of bread worship , of many inventions of men , let then : have a name and flourish in the house of the lord , and let them be written with the living in jerusalem who contribute help for the desired birth of the manchild . prelacy and popery wither , as in a land of drought , except they be planted beside rivers of blood ; but the lord shall build his own jerusalem . your honour may justly challenge this little expression of my obliged respects to your lordship . i acknowledge it is little , though it may have some use . etiam capillus unus habet umbram suam ; one haire casteth its owne shadow . jmpotency to pay debt layeth not upon any the note of unthankfulnesse , except it be impotency of good will. if i be not a debter for will , i am nothing . and this i owe , and this church and nation may divide the sum with me ; for which , wishing to your lordship all riches of grace , i stand obliged . your lordships servant at all dutifull observance in christ jesus . samuel rutherfurd . to the reader . there be two happy things ( worthy reader ) as a one sayth , the one is not to erre , the other is to escape from the power of error . times wombe bringeth forth many truths , though truth be not a debter to time , because time putteth new robes on old truth ; but truth is gods debter , and oweth her being to him only . it is a great evil under the sun , and the sicknesse of mans vanity , that the name of holy men should be a web to make garments of for new opinions , but the errors of holy men have no whitenesse , nor holinesse from men . and it is a wrong that mens praise should be truths prejudice , and mens gaine , truths losse . yet i shall heartily desire that men herein observe the art of deep providence , for the creator commandeth darknes to bring forth her birth of light , and god doth so over-aw , with a wise super-dominion , mens errors , that contrary to natures way , from collision of opinions , resulteth truth ; and disputes , as stricken flint , cast fire for light , god raising out of the dust and ashes of errors a new living truth . what mistakes , errors , or heresies have been anent church government , that vigilant and never slumbering wisdome of providence , hath thence made to appeare the sound doctrine of gods kingdome . so here satan shapeth , and god seweth , and maketh the garment . error is but dregs , by the artifice of all compassing providence , from whence are distilled strong and cordiall waters . and what antichrist hath conceived for a hierarchy and humane ceremonies , hath put christ in his two witnesses in brittaine to advocate for the truth and native simplicity of his own kingdom . but i heartily desire not to appeare as an adversary to the holy , reverend , and learned brethren who are sufferers for the truth , for there be wide marches betwixt striving , and disputing . why should we strive ? for we be brethren , the sonnes of one father , the borne citizens of one mother ierusalem . to dispute is not to contend . we strive as we are carnall , we dispute as we are men , we war from our lusts b we dispute from diversity of star-light , and day-light . weaknesse is not wickednesse , a roving of wit must not be deemed a rebellion of will , a broken inginne may part with a dead child , and yet be a mother of many healthy children . and while our reverend and deare brethren , fleeing the coast of egypt , and babylons wicked borders , aym to shore upon truth , wind may deceive good sailors , naturall land-motions ( as when heavy bodies move downward , toward their own ( clay countrey ) are upon a straight line . but sea-motions of sailing are not by right lines , but rather by sea-circles . we often argue and dispute , as we saile . where grace and weight of scripture make motion , we walke , in a right line , toward god. but where opinion , a messenger only sent to spie the land of lies , and truth , usurpeth to conduct us , what marvell then we goe about truth , rather then lodge with truth . and christ his kingdome , scepter , glory , babylons fall , be the materiall object of opinions , on both sides ; and yet the word of god hath a right lith , that cannot suffer division . in gods matters there be not , as in grammar , the positive and comparative degrees , there are not here , truth , and more true , and most true . truth is in an indivisible line , which hath no latitude , and cannot admit of spleeting . and therefore we may make use of the philosophers word , amicus socrates , amicus plato , sed magis amica veritas . though peter and paul bee our beloved friends , yet the truth is a dearer friend : the sonnes of babylon make out-cries of divisions and diversity of religions amongst us , but every opinion is not a new religion . but where shall multitude of gods be had , for multitude of new wayes to heaven , if one heaven cannot containe two gods , how shall all papists be lodged after death ? what astronomy shall teach us of millions of heavens , for thomists , scotists , franciscans , dominicans , sorbonists ? &c. but i leave off , and beg from the reader candor and ingenuous and faire dealing , from formalists , men in the way to babylon , i may wish this , i cannot hope it . fare-well . yours in the lord , s. r. a table of the contents of this book . a company of believers professing the truth and meeting in one place every lords day , for the worshipping of god , is not the visible church endued with ministeriall power . p. . , . & seq . the keys of the kingdome of heaven are not committed to the church of believers destitute of elders , p. , . the keys are given to stewards by office , p. , , seq . the places , mat. . and mat. . fully discussed , by evidence of the text , and testimonies of fathers , and modern writers , p. , , , . seq . power ministeriall of forgiving sins , belongeth not to private christians , as m. robinson , and others imagine , p. . . seq private christians , by no warrant of gods word , not in office , can be publick persons warrantably exercising judiciall acts of the keys , p. , , . & seq . who so holdeth this , cannot decline the meere popular government of morellius , and others , p. . these who have the ministeriall power by office , are not the church builded on the rock , p. . the place col. . . say to archippus , discussed , p. , . the keys not given to as many , as the gospell is given unto ; as mr. robinson saith . p. , . seq . there is a church-assembly judging , excluding the people as judges , though not as hearers and consenters , p. . . reasons why our brethren of new england allow of church-censures to the people , examined , p. , , , . there is no necessity of the personall presence of all the church in all the acts of church censu●es , p , . seq . the place , cor. . expounded , p , , . how farre lictors may execute the sentence that is given out , without their conscience and knowledge , p. . . seq . a speculative doubt ●nent the act , maketh not a doubting conscience , but onely a practicall doubt anent the law , p. . ignorance vincible and invincible , the former may bee a question of fact , the latter is never a question of law. p. , , . the command of superiors cannot remove a doubting conscience , p. , . the conscience of a judge , as a man , and as a judge , not one and the same , p. , . the people of the jewes not judges , as ainsworth supposeth , p. , . that there is under the new testament , a provinciall and nationall church , p. . . seq . a diocesian church farre different from a provinciall church , p. , . the place , acts . . proveth the power of a visible catholick church , p. , . the equity and necessity of a catholick visible church , p. . , , . how the catholick church is visible , p. , . the jewish and christian churches were of one and the same visible constitution , p. , , . the iewish church was a congregationall church , p. . . seq . excommunication in the iewish church , p. . , , . separation from the jewish , and the true christian churches both alike unlawfull , p. . . the iewish civil state and the church different , p. . , . separation from the church for the want of some ordinances how far lawfull , p. , , . a compleat power of excommunication how in a congregation , and how not , p. . . how all are to joyne themselves to some visible church . p. . , . the place , cor. . considered , p. . that all without are not to be understood of all without the lists of a parishionall church , ibid & . . that persons are not entered members of the visible church , by a church-covenant , p. , , , , . seq . that there is no warrant in gods word , for any such covenant , ibid. in seq . the manner of entering in church state in new england , p. . . the place , act. , , . is not for a church-covenant . ibid. the ancient church knew no such church-covenant , p. . . no church-covenant in england , p. . . nor of old , the places genes . . . exod , . . acts . . favour not the church-covenant , p. . , . nor deut. . . p. , . seq . the exposition of deut. . given by our brethren favours much the glosse of arminians and socinians , not a church-covenant , p. . . . . a church-covenant not the essentiall forme of a visible church , p. , . the place , chro. . . chro. . . speak not for a church-covenant . p. . . nor doth nehemiahs covenant ch . . plead for it , the place of esai . . alledged for the church-covenant discussed , p. . . the place ezech. . . considered . p . . and the place , jer. . . p . . and the place , esay . . p . . the place , cor. . . violently handled to speak for this church-covenant , p . . seq . a passage of iustine martyr , with the ancient custome of baptizing , vindicated , p. . john baptists baptising vindicated , p. . the place acts . and of the rest durst no man joyne himselfe to them , &c. wronged and put under the arminian glosse , p. . . the pretended mariage betwixt the pastor and the church , no ground of a church-covenant , and is a popish error , p. . . power of election of pastors not essentiall to a pastor all relation , p. , . it is lawfull to sweare a platforme of a confession of faith , p. , , . seq . our brethren and the arminian arguments on the contrary are dissolved , p. , , . pastors and doctors how differenced , p. . of ruling elders , p. . . and the place , tim. . . farther considered , the place tim. . . elders that rule well examined , p. , , . especially , , . seq . arguments against ruling elders answered , p. . . seq . the places , cor. . . rom. . discussed and vindicated p. . , , . seq . of deacons , p. . . seq . the place acts . for deacons discussed , p. . . the magistrate no deacon , p. , . deacons instituted , p. . . seq . deacons are not to preach and baptize , p. , . seq . os widdowes , p. . , . how the church is before the ministery , and the minestery before the church , p. , . the keys and power of ordaining officers not committed to the church of believers destitute of elders , p. . . . robinsons reasons on the contrary , siding with arminians and socinians , ( who evert the necessity of a ministery ) are dissolved , p. . . no ordination of elders by a church of onely believers , but by elders , in a constituted church , p. . . seq . ordination and election differ , ibidm corrupt rites of the romish church added to ordination destroy not the nature of ordination , though such an ordination be unlawfull yet is not invalid and null , p . , . the various opinions of romanists anent ordination , ibid. election may stand for ordination , in case of necessity , p. . of the succession of pastors to pastors , p. . . calling of pastors seems by our brethrens way not necessary , p. arguments for ordination of elders by a church of onely believers dissolved , p. . , seq . believers , because not the successors of the apostles , have not power of ordination , p. . , . seq . the keys , by no warrant of gods word , are given to pastors as pastors , according to the doctrine of our brethren , p. . seq . they side with sociaians who ascribe ordination to sole believers , p. . election belongeth to the people , p. . . seq . in the ancient church this was constantly taught , till papists did violate gods ordinance , p. . election of a pastor not essentiall to his calli●g , p. . the calling of luther how ordinary , and how extraordinary , p. , , . seq . the essence of a valid calling , p. . . how it may be proved by humane testimonies that the now visible church hath been a visible church since the dayes of the apostles , p. . . & seq . since the long continuance of the waldenses , p. , . seq . a calling frow the papists church as valid , as baptisme from the same church , p. , . seq . robinsons arguments are removed , p. . . of addition of members to the church , p. . what sort of professors , whether true or seeming believers doe essentially constitute a visible church ; divers considerable distinctions anent a visible church , p. ib. . , seq . the invisible , not the visible church the prime subject of the covenant of grace , and of all the priviledges due to the church , and of all title , claime and interest in jesus christ , and how by the contrary doctrine our brethren imprudently fall into a grosse poynt of arminianisme , p. . , , , . seq . the invisible church hath properly right to the seales of the covenant , our brethren in this poynt joyne with papists whom otherwise they sincerely hate , p. , , . seq . what sort of profession doth constitute a visible church p. . that christ hath provided no pastors as pastors , for converting of soules and planting visible churches , is holden by our brethren , p. . the arguments of our brethren for a pretended church of visible saints , not only in profession , but also in some measure of truth and sincerity , as the author saith , are disolved , p. . , . robinsons arguments at length are discussed , p. . , seq the lords adding to the church invisible , no rule for our adding , p. . the places mat . & mat. of the man without his wedding garment comming to the feast , and of the t●res in the lords field discussed , p. , . . the typical temple no ground for this pretended visible church p. , . nor the place , tim. . . p. . nor rev. . . without are dogs , p. . . and of diverse other places and persons at length , in seq . ordinary and prosessed hearing is church-communion , p. , , & seq . excommunicated persons not wholy cut off from the visible church , p. , , seq . sundry distinctions thereanent collected out of the fathers and schoolemen , p. , , , . some separatists deny that the regenerated can be excommunicated , as robinson ; some say onely the regenerated are capable of excommunication , as peter coachman , p , , . of the diverse sorts of excommunication and the power thereof p. , , . the reason why papists debar not the excommunicated from hearing the word , p. , . how the seals are due to the visible church , only in foro ecclesiastico properly , p. . in what diverse considerations the word preached is a note of the visible church , p. , . seq . the difference betwixt nota and signum , p. . and nota actu primo & notificativa , and nota actu secundo , and notificans , p. . arguments of robinson and others answered , p. . . whether discipline be a note of the true church , diverse distinctions thereanent , p. , . the order of gods publick worship , p. . of the communion of the visible catholik church , p. , . the ministery and ordinances are given principally to the guides of the catholick church , and to , and for the catholick church , p. , , . and not to a congregation only , ibid . congregations are parts of a presbyteriall church , p. , . christ principally the head of the catholick church and secondarily a spouse , head , lord , king of a praticular congregation , p. . the excommunicated is east out of the catholick visible church p. , . a sister congregation doth not excommunicate consequenter only , but antecedenter also , p. . how presbyteriall churches excommunicate not by power derived from the catholick visible church , p. , . of the power of the catholick visible church , p. , . a congregation in a remote i le hath power of jurisdiction , p. . a presbyteriall church is the first and principall subject of the ordinary power of jurisdiction , p. , . what power generall councells have and how necessary , p. . power of excommunication not in a single congregation consociated with other churches , p. , . synods or councels occasionall , rather then ordinary , p. . a congregational church , how it is by divine right , p. . tell the church , mat. . not restrained to a single congregation only , p. , . the place ( mat. . . tell the church ) considered , p. , , , , seq . an appeale from a church that hath lawful power , p. . a representative church , p. . the power of a single congregation , p , , . matthew . tell the church , establisheth a church court , p. , , . what relation of eldership do the members of the classicall presbytery beare to the whole presbyteriall church , and to all the congregations thereof , p. , , , , & seq . they have power of governing all congregations in those bounds , and not power of pastorall teaching in every one of them , ibidem oncrousnesse of ruling many churches , whereof the elders of the classicall presbytery are not pastors , no more then the onerousnesse of advising that is incumbent to sister churches , p. , , . the power of presbyteries auxiliary , not destructive to the power of congregations , p . . a church-congregationall within a church presbyteriall , p. , , . entire power of government in one congregationall church against nature and the order of grace , p. , . a nationall church no iudaisme , but christian , p. , . how pastors are pastors in relation to these congregations , p. , . and churches whereof they are not proper pastors , p. , , . the place , cor. . considered , if it can prove that all the multitude have an interest of presence in all acts of iurisdiction , p. , , . the place acts . for a lawfull synod considered at length , acts . p. , , , , , , , . & seq . all the requisites of a juridicall synod here , p. , , . the apostles did not act in this synod , as apostles , p. , , . , , & seq . . , . the power of this synod not doctrinall onely , but also juridicall , p. , , . the church acts . . seemeth to be a synodicall church , p. , . if the apostles as infallible did reason in this synod , p. , . how the holy ghost is in all lawfull synods , p. , . and what holy ghost is meant , ibidem this synod not a company of counsellors , p. , , . church power intrinsecally in every part of the church and not derived either by ascending or descending , p. , . which is the first church , and five necessary distinctions , thereanent , p. , , . presbyteriall government warranted by the light of nature , p. , . power of censures in this synod , p. , , seq . acts of this synod could not have been performed by any one man , p. , , . . reasons proving that the apostles acted in this synod as apostles , are removed , p. , , . a power to act church-acts cannot want a power of censuring the contraveners , p. . how the decrees acts . bind all the churches , p. , . what was in question acts . p , . the apostles proceeding by way of disputing not by apostolick infallibility in this synod , p. , . seq . the question acts . a church question , p. , . the synagogue of the iewes a compleat church though all the ordinances of god were not there , p. , . the power of an oecumenick synod above a nationall church , what it is , p. , , . there is a visible catholick church , cor. . p. , , . the church of herusalem was a presbyteriall church , p. , . the church of jerusalem an ordinary christian church , p. , , , . a presbyteriall church after the dispersion , p , . the apostles exercised acts of a classicall presbytery as ordinary elders , acts . p. . . seq . the seales not to be denied to approved professors , though they be not members of a parishionall church , p. , seq . whether the invisible or visible church hath right to the seales , p. . the visible church of the jewes , and the visible church of the gentiles of one and the same nature and essentiall constitution , p. , , . whether for every sinne of ignorance there was need of a sacrifice , p. . arguments to prove that only members of a parishionall church are capable of the seales dissolved , p. . no strong hand of providence , such as necessary absence from the congregation , as traffiquing , but only morallimpediments maketh men uncapable of the seales , p. , . the place , cor. , . concerning these who ore without , again discussed , p. , . pastors doe warrantably performe pastorall acts in other congregations , then their own , p. , . seq . the place , acts . . discussed . p. , . the congregation make and unmake pastors , by our brethrens doctrine ex opere operato , , & seq . arguments of our brethren hereanent dissolved , p. . that persons are received into the visible church by baptisme , diverse distinctions hereanent , p. , , , . the efficacy of the sacraments handled , p. . a fourefold consideration of sacraments , p. , . the error of papists making sacraments physicall instruments , the error of arminians , socinians and of our brethren , making them naked signes , p. . . of sacramentall grace , p. . arguments of our brethren removed , p. . . the mind of socinians , the difference of a sacrament and a civill seale most considerable , p. , , , , , . in what case separation is lawfull , p. . fundamentalls , p. . of fundamentals , superstructures circa fundamentalia , things about the foundation , p. , . matters of faith , and poynts fundamentall different , p. . ignorance of gods matters have a threefold consideration , p. , . ignorance of fundamentals , ibidem knowledge of fundamentals how necessary , p. . what are fundamentall poynts , p. . how iewes nnd papists have all fundamentals , and how not , p. , . the error of papists hereanent , that the churches determination maketh fundamentals , p. . nine considerable distinctions anent fundamental poynts , containing diverse things anent fundamentals , p. , . & seq . our brethren ignorant of the nature of a visible church , p. , . neither believing , nor unbelieving essentiall to the visible church , ibidem robinsons arguments for separation found light and empty , p. . . seq . the place cor. . . fully vindicated , p. , . seq . by evidence of the place , fathers and protestant divines , ibid. the place iohn , , . fully vindicated , robinson his interpretation borrowed from arminius , and other places and reasons discussed at length , p. , , . seq . eight distinctions anent separation , p. , , & seq . infants of visible professors are to be baptized , p. , seq . arguments on the contrary dissolved , ibid. what right to baptisme the child hath from parents , p. seq . conversion of soules an ordinary fruit of a sent ministery , p. , , . seq . rom. . . how shall they preach except they be sent , diseussed , diverse sending acknowledged by our brethren , p. . seq . no warrant for the preaching of gifted personsnot called by the church in a constituted church , six distinctions thereanent , p. , . seq . socinians deny the necessity of a sent minister , p. . robinson expoundeth the place rom. , . as socinians do ibid. & , , . robinsons arguments for preaching of unofficed prophets , answered , as from eldad and medad , p. , . and chro. . . from the hebrew text and r. jarchi salomon his exposition cleared , p. , . and jehoshaphat his sermon , how kings may exhort , p. , . that christs disciples before his resurrection and the seventy disciples were not unofficed preachers , p. , . and other places , p. . as joh. . . luk. . . act. . , . . p. . , . seq . and pet. , . . rev. . . rev. . . fully vindicated , p. , , , . that there be no ground for unofficed prophets , cor. , p. , , . seq . the place heb. . . vindicated all objections from cor. . of robinson , particularly discussed , and found empty and most weake , p. , , , seq . mr. coachmans arguments dissolved , p. , , . seq . the way of church judging in independent congregations examined , p. , . that there be no peculiar authority in the eldership , for which they can be said to be over the people in the lord , according to the doctrin of independency of churches , and their six ways of the elders authority confuted , p. , , , , . seq . that independency doth evert communion of sister-churches , and their seven wayes of churches-communion refuted from their own grounds , p. , , . seq . the divine right of synods , ten distructions thereanent , p. , . seq . the desinition of a generall or oecumenick synod , p. . the place acts farther considered , p. , . synods necessary by natures law , p. . papists no friends to councells , p. , , . seq . , . three ways of communion of sister-churches according to the doctrin of independent churches confuted , p. , . seq . how the magistrate hath power to compell persons to the profession of the truth , p. , . seq . six distinctions thereanent , part . p. , . the magistrates power over a people baptized , and over pagans who never heard of christ , in this poynt of coaction to profession , not alike , p. , , . the magistrates compelling power terminated upon the externall act , not upon the manner of doing , sincerely , or hypocritically , p. , . the magistrates power over hereticks , with sundry distinctions thereanent , p. , , . seq . socinians judgement and arminians hereanent , p. , , a farther consideration of compelling , or tolerating diverse religions , p. , . some indirect forcing lawfull , p . erroneous opinions concerning god and his worship though not in fundamentalls censurable , p . diverse non fundamentalls are to be believed with certainty of faith , and the non-believing of them are si●nes punishable , p. . seq . arguments on the contrary dissolved and the place philip. . . cleared , p . & seq . how an erring conscience obligeth , p. , , , seq . arguments on the contrary answered , p. , . seq . the princes power in church affairs ; ten distinctions thereanent , p. , . . how the magistrate is a member of the church , p. , . the prince , by his royall office , hath a speciall hand in church-affaires . p , . the intrinsecall end of the prince is a supernaturall good to be procured by the sword and a coactive power , and not only the externall peace of the state , spalato resuted , p , , . seq . how the magistrate is subordinate to christs mediatory kingdome , p , , , seq . the ordinary power of the prince is not synodicall teaching , or making church-lawes , p. , , , . seq . the influence of the princes civill power in church-canons , p. . , seq . the government of the visible church spirituall , and not a formall part of the magistrates office , p. , . seq . the power of ordination and deprivation not a part of the magistrates office , p. , . seq . instances from david , salomon , ezechiah , &c. answered , and our doctrine and iesuites differenced , p. , . seq . difference betwixt the princes commanding church-duties , and the churches commanding these same , p. , , seq . the kings ordinary power to make church-lawes examined , p. , , . seq . the intrinsecall end of the magistrate a supernaturall good , p. , , , , . the popes pretended power over kings , protestants contrary to to papists herein , what ever the author or popish libeller of the survey , and the night-author of treason lysimachus nicanor say on the contrary , p. , , , . seq . the way of reformation of congregations in england , according to the independent way , examined , p. , . the originall of church-patronages , p. . and how unwarrantable by gods word , p. , . other wayes of reformation of england according to the way of independent churches modestly considered , as about maintenance of ministers , and replanting of visible churches there , p. , , . seq . errata . the author could not attend the presse , therefore pardon errors of the printing ; observe , that the author was necessitated to make some occasionall addition to the mids of this treatise which occasioned-variation of the figures of the pages , and therefore stumble not , that when the booke commeth to page the next page not observing due order , is page . and so forth to the end of the treatise , page . title of the page , &c. page , . . dele not ; and for , not of the same essentiall frame , &c. read of the same essentiall frame , &c. page , line , churches their persecution , read churches through their persecution , for page read . for page . read . for . p. . r. p. . יהוה the way of the church of christ in new england , measured by the golden reed of the sanctuary . or , the way of churches walking in brotherly equality and independence , or coordination without subjection of one church to another , examined and measured by the golden reed of the sanctuary . propositions concerning the supposed visibility and constitution of independent churches , examined . chap. . sect . . prop. . the church which christ in his gospell hath instituted , and to which he hath committed the keys of his kingdome , the power of binding and loosing , the tables and scales of the covenant , the officers and consures of his church , the administration of all his publick worship and ordinances , is , coetus fidelium , a company of believers , meeting in one place , every lords day , for the administration of the holy ordinances of god to publick edification . cor. . . because it was a company whereof peter confessing and believing was one , and built on a rock , mat. . . a such as unto whom any offended brother might complaine , mat. . . such as is , to cast out the incestuous ▪ corinthian , cor. . which cannot agree to any diocesian , provinciall , or nationall assemblie . ans. from these we question . quest. . if a company of believers and saints builded by faith , upon the rock christ , and united in a church-covenant , be the only instituted visible church of the new testament , to the which christ hath given the keys : let these considerations be weighed . . dist. the matter of an instituted visible church is one thing , and the instituted visible church is another , as there be ods betwixt stones and timber , and an house made of stones and timber . dist. it is one thing to govern the actions of the church and another thing to governe the church , the moderator of any synod , doth govern the actions of the synod , but he is not for that a governour , ruler , and pastor of the synod . or , ordering actions , and governing men are diverse things . . dist. a thing hath first its constituted and accomplished being in matter , forme , efficient and finall causes , before it can performe these operations and actions that flow from that being so constituted , a church must be a church , before any ministeriall church actions can be performed by it . . dist. it is one thing for a company to performe the actions of a church mysticall and redeemed of christ , and another thing to performe actions ministeriall of a church instituted and ministeriall . . concl. a company of believers professing the truth is the matter of the church , though they be saints by calling and builded on the rock , yet are they but to the church instituted , as stones to the house . . because they cannot performe the actions of a constituted church , till they be a constituted church . . our divines call men externally called , the matter of the visible church , so trelcatius , tilenu● , professors of leyden ; piscator , bucanus , so say our brethern . . concil . ordination of pastors , and election of officers , administration of the seales of grace , and acts of church censures , are holden by gods word , and by all our divines , actions of a ministeriall and an instituted visible church , and if so , according to our third distinction . it is a wonder how a company of believers united in church-covenant , cannot performe all these , for they are united , and so a perfect church , and yet cannot administrate the sacraments : for though they be so united , they may want pastors , who onely can performe these actions , as this treatise sayth , and robinson and the confession . and it is no lesse wonder that officers and rulers who are to feed , and governe the flock , are but only accidents and not parts , not integrall members of a constituted church : no perfect corporation maketh its owne integrall parts or members , a perfect living man doth not make his owne hands , feete , or eyes , the man is not a perfect one in all his members , if all the members be not made with him ; but officers by preaching make church-members . . concl. the visible church which christ instituted in the gospel is not formally a company of believers meeting , for publick edification , by common and joynt consent , as this author sayth . . the instituted church of the new testament is an organicall body of diverse members , of eyes , eares , feete , hands , of elders governing , and a people governed . cor. . , . rom. . , , . act. . . but a company of believers , meeting for publick edification by common consent , are not formally such a body ; for they are a body not organicall , but all of one and the same nature , all believers and saints by calling , and are not a body of officers governing , and people governed ; for they are , as they are a visible church , a single uncompounded body , wanting officers , and are as yet to choose their officers : and all thus combined are not officers , rom. . . how shall they preach except they be sent ? cor. . . are all apostles ? are all prophets ? we justly censure the papists , and amongst them , bellarmine , who will scarce admit an essentiall church of believers , but acknowledgeth other three churches beside , to wit , a representative church of their clergy onely , excluding the laickes ( as they call them ) a consistoriall church of cardinalls . . a virtuall church , the pope who hath plenitude of all power in himselfe , against which our writers calvin , beza , tilenus , iunius , bucanus , professors of leyden , whittaker , willet doe dispute ; so the other extremity can hardly be maintained , that there is an instituted , visible , ministeriall church to which christ hath given the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , exercising church actions , as to ordaine , and make and un-make officers and rulers without any officer at all . the major of our proposition is grantted by our brethren , who cite , cor. . rom. . acts . . to prove a single congregation to be the onely visible church instituted in the new testament . nothing can be said against this , but a church of governours and people governed is an instituted visible church ; but there is an instituted visible church before there be governours , but such an instituted church we cannot read of in gods word , which doth and may exercise church acts of government without any officers at all . . that company cannot be the church ministeriall instituted by christ in the new testament , which cannot meete all of them , every lords day , as the church of corinth did for administration of the holy ordinances of god , and all his ordinances to publick edification ; for so this author describeth a visible instituted church , cor. . . but a company of believers meeting for publick edification , by joynt and common consent cannot meete for the publick administration of all the ordinances of god , . they cannot administer the seales of the covenant being destitute of the officers , as the scripture , and their confession saith , . they cannot have the power of publick edification , being destitute of pastors , because the end cannot be attained without the meanes appointed of christ. but christ for publick edification and church edification hath given pastors , teacher● and other officers to his church eph. . . tim. . . i● is not enough to say , that such a company meeting hath power of pastorall preaching and administration of the seales of grace , because they may ordaine and elect officers , for such publick edification , but . we prove , that that which our brethren call the onely instituted visible church of the new testament , hath not power to administrate all the ordinances of christ , and how then are they a church ? can we call him a perfect living man , who cannot exercise all the vitall actions , which flow from the nature and essence of a living man ? . if this be a good reason that such a company should be the only instituted church in the new testament having power of all the ordinances , because they may appoint officers , who have such a power ; then any ten believers , who have never sworne the church-covenant , meeting in private to exhort one another is also the only instituted church ministeriall , in the new testament , for they have power to make such officers , and may invest themselves in right , to all the ordinances of christ , by our brothers doctrine , . all the places cited by the author , speake of a church visible made up of , officers governing , and people governed & as mat. . mat . cannot exclude pastors who binde on earth , and in heaven , or pastors who are stewards , and beare the keyes , as hereafter , i shall prove . also the church of corinth did meete for the administration of the lords supper , cor. . . and so were a church of officers and governed people , they met with pauls spirit , and the authority of pastors . cor. . . another church that exercised discipline , as collosse col. . . was a church of officers and people col. . . philippi consisted of saints , bishops , and deacons . phil. . . . ephesus of a flocke , and an eldership , acts . . so the visible ministeriall church that the word of god speaketh of , as all the seven churches of asia and their angels , had in them officers to governe , and people governed , and therefore they were not a number of sole . believers united in a church-covenant , which in very deed i● but stones and timber , not an house builded of god ; for in the ministeriall church of the new testament , there is e●e● a relation betwixt the elders and the flock : wee desire to to see a copy of our brethrens instituted visible church , to the which elders are neither essentiall , nor integrall parts , for their instituted visible church hath its compleat being and all its church-operations , as binding , loosing , ordeining of officers , before there bee an edldership in it , and also when the eldership is ordained , they are not eyes and eares to the instituted church , nor watchmen , because it is a body in essence and operation compleat without officers . . the officers are not governors , for as i trust to prove , they have no act of ministeriall authority of governing ; over the people by our brethrens doctrine , . all their governing is to rule and moderate the actions of the whole governing church , which maketh them no wayes to be governours , nor over the believers in the lord , nor overseers , nor watchmen : as a preses who moderateth a judicatorie , a moderator in a church-meeting , a prolocutor in a convocation , is not over the judicatorie , synod , or meeting , or convocation . . the eldership are called by them , the adjuncts , the church , the subject : the subject hath its perfect essence without its accidents and common adjuncts . quest. whether or not christ hath committed the keys of the kingdom of heaven , to the church of believers , which as yet wanteth all officers , pastors , doctors , &c. the author sayth , this company of believers and church which wanteth officers , and ( as we have heard ) is compleat without them , is the corporation to which christ hath given the keyes of the kingdom of heaven ; which deserveth our brotherly censure : for wee then aske a scripture for the lords giving of the keys to pastors and elders ; if the keys be given to peter , mat. . as a professing believer , by what word of god are they given to peter , as to an apostle and pastor , it would seem the pastors have not the keys jure divino ; for by this argument our divines prove the bishop not to bee an office of power and jurisdiction above a pastor and presbyter , because the keys were not given to peter as to the archbishop , but as to a pastor of the church , and indeed this would conclude that pastors are not officers of authority and power of jurisdiction , jure divino . hence the question is , if it can be concluded that the keyes of of the kingdom of heaven , mat. . mat. . were given to peter , as he represented all professing believers , or if they were given for the good of professing believers , but to peter as carrying the person of apostles , pastors , and church-guides ? . distinction , there is one question of the power of the keyes , and to whom they are committed , and another of the exercise of them , and toucheth the government of the church , if it be popular and democraticall or not ? . dist. it is not inconvenient , but necessary that christ should give to his church , gifts , pastors and teachers , of the which gifts the church is not capable , as a subject as if the church might exercise the pastor and doctors place : and yet the church is capable of these gifts , as the object , and end , because the fruit and effect of these gifts redoundeth to the good of the church , see a parker , see the b parisian schoole and c bayner . . distinct. there is a formall ordinary power , and there is a vertuall or extraordinary power . . concl. christ iesus hath immediatly himselfe without the intervening power of the church or men , appointed offices and officers in his house , and the office of a pastor , and elder is no lesse immediately from christ ( for men as christs vicars and instruments can appoint no new office in the church ) then the office of the apostles , eph. . . cor. . . mat. . . the offices are all given to the church immediatly , and so absolutely , and so the power of the keys , is given to the church the same way . but the officers , and key bearers now are given mediatly , and conditionally , by the intervening mediation of the ruling and ministeriall church , that she shall call such and such , as have the conditions required to the office by gods word , . tim. . , . hence we see no reason , why the keys can be said to be given to believers , any other wayes , then that they are given for their good . . concl. i deny not , but there is a power virtuall , not formall in the church of believers , to supply the want of ordination of pastors , or some other acts of the keyes simply necessary , hic & nunc ; this power is virtuall , not formall , and extraordinary not ordinary , not officiall , not properly authoritative , as in a church in an iland , where the pastors are dead , or taken away by pest or otherwayes , the people may ordaine pastors or rather doe that which may supply the defect of ordination , as david without immediate revelation , from heaven to direct him , by only the law of nature , did eate shewbread ; so is the case here , so answer the casuistes and the schoolemen , that a positive law may yield in case of necessity , to the good of the church ; so a thomas b molina c suarez d vasquez e vigverius , f sotus g scotus h altisiodorensis i durand k gabriel , and consider what the learned l voetius sayth in this . what if in an extreame case of necessity , a private man , endued with gifts and zeale should teach publickly , after the example of the faithfull at samosaten . yea and flavianus and diodorus preached in antioch , as m theodoret sayth ; yea , saith voetius , an ordinary ministery might be imposed on a laick , or private person by the church , though the presbytery consent not , in case of necessity . god ( sayth n gerson ) may make an immediate intermission of a calling by bishops ; yea ( sayth o anton. speaking of necessities law ) the pope may commit power of excommunication , quia est de jure positive , pure laico & mulieri , to one meere laicke , or a woman ; though we justifie not this , yet it is hence concluded that god hath not tied himselfe to one set rule of ordinary , positive lawes : a captive woman ( as socrates saith ) preached the gospell to the king and queen of iberranes , and they to the people of the land. . concl. the author in the foresaid first proposition , will have no instituted visible church , in the new testament , but a congregationall or parishionall church , that meeteth together ordinarily , in one place , for the hearing of the word . but we thinke , as a reasonable man is the first , immediate and principall subject of aptitude to laugh , and the mediate and secondary subjects are , peter , iohn and particular men , so that it is the intention of nature to give these and the like properties , principally and immediately , to the speci●e , and common nature , and not immediately to this or that man ; so are the blessings of the promises , as to bee builded on a rock ; victory over hell , and such , given principally and immediately to the catholick and invisible church , as to the first and principall subject ; and no wayes to a visible congregation consisting of or . professing the faith of christ : but onely to them , not as professors , but to them as they are parts and living members of the true catholick church . for sound professors , though united in a church-covenant , are indeed the mysticall church , but not as professors , but as sound believers , and therefore these of whom christ speaketh , mat. . are builded on a rock , as true believers ; but the keys are given not to them , but for them , and for their good , as professors making peters confession , and in gods purpose to gather them into christ. but the text evinceth that these keys are given to peter , as representing the church-guides especially , though not excluding believers , giving to them popular consent , and not to believers , as united in a company of persons in church-covenant , excluding the elders . . to that church are the keys given , which is builded on the rock as a house , the house of wisdome , prov. . . the house of god , tim. . . heb. . . by the doctrine of the prophets and apostles , by doctors and teachers , whom christ hath given , for the building of his house , eph. . . but this house is not a company of professing believers united by a church-covenant and destitute of pastors and teachers , but a church edified by the word , seales , and discipline : ergo such a church is not heere understood . the propofition is granted by the author . i prove the assumption . the church of believers combined in church-covenant , but wanting their pastors and teachers , is not wisdomes house , nor builded by pastors and doctors given to edifie and gather the body , but they are only the materialls of the house : yea wanting the pastors , they want ministeriall power , for pastorall preaching and administrating the seales , and for that , they want the power of edifying the body of christ , which is required in a visible church eph. . . though the building of this church on the rock christ may well be thought to be the inward building of the catholick and invisible church in the faith of christ , yet as it is promised to the church , to the which christ promiseth the keys of the kingdome of heaven , it can be no other beside external and ministeriall building by a publick ministery . . arg. to these are the keys here promised , who are stewards of the mysteries of god , cor. . . and servants of the house by office , cor. . . and are by office to open the doores and behave themselves aright in gods house , tim. . . and to divide to these of the house their portion in due season , mat. . . and to cut the word , tim. . . but a company of professing believers joyned together in a church-covenant , and destitute of officers , are not stewards by office , nor servants over the house , &c. ergo , to such a company the keyes are not here given . the proposition especially is to be proved ( for the assumption is granted by our brethren and evidently true ) but it is sure by the phrase of scripture , esai . . . and i will lay upon his shouldier the key of the house of david . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 clavis a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 apperuit , proveth this . a shindlerus in lexico , metonymicè significatur , authoritas , facultas , potestas omnis gubernationis , iubendo , ac vetando , expediendo ac coercendo , power of government b musculus , so c calvin : these who are made masters of housholds receive keys , whereby they open and shut , it is a token of power given to kings d iunius , it noteth a full government , by this borrowed speech , sayth e beza , is signified the power of ministers , isai. . mat. . f pareus . i shall make the steward of my house , g hierom the key is a power of excellency , and h chrysostom , i augustine , k beda sayth the same . a fulgentius calleth this the power of binding and loosing given to the apostles ; so other scriptures expound the keyes to be a power of office , as esa. . . and the government shall be upon his shoulder , interpreters say , davids keys are given here , rev. . . these things ( saith he ) that hath the key of david , who open●h and no man shutteth , and shutteth and no man openeth , rev. . . i have the keys of hell and death , rev. . . and to him was given the key of the bottomlesse pit ; so b stephanus on the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , clavis . c whittaker , it signifieth a power of office given to some , and not to all ; as d calvin here ( saith he ) christ speaketh of peters publick office , that is , of his apostleship e so , bullinger , f erasm. g zwinglius h marlorat , i pareus on the same place . i think , while of late , never interpreter dreamed , that in the text , mat. . the keys of the kingdome of heaven are given to all believers , but only to the stewards of the house builded upon the rock . . arg. to these in this text doth christ give the keys , to whom he giveth warrant , for the actuall exercise of the keys , to wit , to bind and loose on earth , and so open and shut the doores of the kingdome . but this warrant and officiall authority of binding and loosing , christ giveth to peter onely as representing apostles , teachers and elders , and not to the church of believers convened covenant-wayes , and destitute of officers ; ergo , the proportion is cleare in the text ; to the same person , to whom the promiseth the power or keys , to the same he promiseth officiall warrant to exercise the speciall acts of the keys , but to peter is the promise of both made . and if christ allude to the place , is. . . then ( i say ) these to whom christ gave the keys , doe by office represent him who hath the keys of davids house and the government on his shoulder , and i will give to thee the keys of the kingdome of heaven , there is the power and authority granted ; and whatsoever thou shall bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven : there is a warrant , for the exercise of the acts of the power given also to peter ; now if the keys be not given to peter as to a pastor ; peter and pastors , by this place , as pastors , neither have the keys , nor officiall warrant to preach , and to remit , or retaine sinnes ; and if by this place , they have it not , we desire to see a warrant from christ , before he went to heaven , for pastorall preaching a beza in his marginall notes in this text , sayth , here is the heavenly authority of the church ministery ; also binding and loosing is all one , with opening and shutting heaven gates , and with remitting and retaining sinnes , ioh. . papists , i know , deny that the apostles were made priests judicially to remit sinnes before christs resurrection , ioh , . so b the cardinall tolet , and c maldonat d cajetanus ; but the truth is , what is given here mat. . is but repeated and enlarged joh . and they are now sent to the whole world , whereas before they were to preach to iudea only , but this ioh , . e ( sayth rollocus ) is but a reiterated power , it was given before his resurrection , and f beza sayth the same , and g bullinger sayth , the promise is made here and fulfilled ioh. c. and h pareus expoundeth ( what thou shalt loose ) here by these words ioh. . so i calvin k vvhittaker l zwinglius m musculus , now this same n author acknowledgeth that ioh. . christ gave pastorall power to all the apostles to forgive sins . . to bind and to loose , are act . s of officiall power , and of princes , rulers , and feeders , ergo they are not given to the church destitute of feeders and governors . i prove the antecedent . . to bind and loose , by all interpreters , augustine , cyrill , chrysost. c●prian , euthymius , hyeromi , basilus , ambrose , sedulius , primasius , and by our owne calvin , musculus , gualther , pareus , beza , zwinglius , rolloc , vvhittaker , and the evidence of scripture , i● , by publick and pastorall preaching , to re●nit and retaine sins , to believers or unbelievers ; and o bullinger saith it is taken from the scripture isa. . v. . where christ is said to loose the prisoners , and so p musculus q beza , and r calvin will have them to be words signifying the ●fficiall authority of princes , ambassadours , to set at liberty prisoners , or to cast malefactors in bands and prison , as magistrates and rulers doe , so binding in scripture s is an authoritative act of princes , superiors , governors and rulers . and so is lo●sing a judiciall and authoritative act of rulers and overseers l as scripture teacheth us . but the church of believers wanting their officers , watchmen , and overseers , though combined in a church covenant , is not a company of overseers and rulers , or judiciall and authoritative binders and loosers exercising power over themselves . . arg. if christ doe not say in this place , nor in mat. . that the keys and the actes of the keys , to wit , binding and loosing , are given to the church of believers , without their officers ; then neither places prove , that the keyes are given to such a church . but christ doth not say it ; ergo , the text cannot beare it : the assumption i prove . christ , mat. . . speaking of the church builded on a rock , sayth not , i will give to the church so builded , the keys ; but he turneth the speech to peter , when he promiseth the keys v. . and i will give to thee , ( peter , not to the church ) the keys of the kingdome of heaven , surely none needeth to teach our lord to speak . this change of the persons to whom the keys are promised , wanteth not a reason . our brethren say , the promise is made to peter , because he gave a confession of christ in the name of all believers , and because the keys are given to believers , as the spouse of christ , and as his body united to him : but this author , granteth every company of believers , because they are believers , are not an instituted visible church , but they must be a company of believers professing covenant-wayes faith in christ , and church-communion . but , . then the keys are not given to believers because they are believers , and the spouse of christ , but because they are such professors , so and so combined in a church-covenant . but yet i aske , whether true or false profession be the neerest intervening cause of these , to whom the keyes are given . if a true profession , then . . unbelieving pastors are not pastors ; for their profession is not true . and children baptized by them are as not-baptized , or as baptized by women , . if one shall be excommunicated by seven ( for such a a number this author requireth to make a visible church ) even , clave non errante , and most deservedly , he is not bound in heaven , and excommunicated , in foro dei , before god : for the profession of these seven may be false , and so the church actes performed by them , are a non habentibus potestatem , and null , if they be no church , . we can prove by scripture b that iudas though the child of perdition , was a called apostle . but if a false profession be sufficient to make persons a true visible church , the● . . the keys are not given to believers , because they are believers , and united to christ , as his body and spouse , but. . this author sayth amisse , that the church instituted by christ is a company of believers , and faithfull and godly men , whereof peter was one ; for a company of hypocrites are not such . . our brethren prove the keys , to be a part of the liberty of the redeemed ones , but counterfeit professors are not redeemed ones , nor have they that liberty purchased to them in christ. it shall follow , that our brethren widely mistake a supposed difference which they devise , betwixt the iewish and christian church , to wit , that to make men members of the iewish church , externall holinesse , as to be borne jewes , was sufficient , and to be circumcised , and not a bastard , not descended within three or foure generations of a moabite , or ammonite , but that the visible church of the gentiles after christ must be the bride of christ , and by true faith united to him . whereas the members of a christian visible church are and may be hypocrites , though not known to be such , as were the members of the iewish church . also mat. , . christ changeth the persons , v. . after he hath spoken of the church v. . he sheweth v. . of what church he speaketh , and directeth his speech to these to whom he spake v. . to the disciples who were pastors , verily i say unto you , what soever yee shall bind on earth , shall be hond in heaven , and therefore none can make an argument from , mat. . to wit thus , to as many are the keys promised , as are builded on the rock , but all the faithfull are builded on the rock , ergo to all the faithfull are the keys promised . . the proposition is not in the text either expressely , or by consequent . . the proposition is false , for the catholick invisible church is builded on the rock , but by our brethrens confession the keys are not given to the catholick invisible church , but only to such a company of professing believers , as make a parishionall congregation . . that christ speaketh to peter as to one representing the apostles , and not as to one representing all believers , is cleare . . because by the confession of our brethren binding and loosing are denyed to many that make peters confession , thou art jesus the son of the living god , as to believing women and children ; and many out of church . state . . if believers as giving peters confession , and as builded upon the rock , christ , by this place made a ministeriall church , by christ , and gifted with the power of the keys , then the ministery & officiall power of preaching and binding and loosing should be made as stable and firme from defection , as the church of elect believers , against whom the gates of hell cannot prevaile : now besides that this is most untrue since , visible churches doe fall away , as these seven churches in asia , the church of corinth , ephesus , galatia , thessalonica may prove , when as it is impossible that the elect believers in christ can fall away , it shall also give good warrant to papists , to make such use of this place , as they doe , that the church may erre in points of conversation and life , but cannot fall from the rock , nor be overcome by the powers of hell in the definition of articles of faith. so a gretser b bellarmine c suarez . d gregor . de valent. e cardi. hosius f turrecremata , reason from this place ; and the connexion must be good , if the ministeriall power not only be given to the church as to the object , that is , for the good and salvation of the church , but also to the church as to the subject , who hath all the power of the keys , and may use it also , because they are believers and builded upon the rock christ ; nothing hindereth , but ministeriall power should be as stable and free from being overcome with the ports of hell , as the christian state of perseverance in grace . now we see , these who have ministeriall power , abuse it , and fall from the rock and perish eternally ; which we cannot say of these , who by faith are builded upon the rock christ iesus . . these to whom christ giveth the keys , doe represent the person of christ , and who despiseth them despiseth christ , and he that honoureth them , honoureth christ , which is evidently spoken of the ministers of christ , matthew . . and is said here matthew , . . whatsoever then yee shall bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven , &c. thus christ bindeth and looseth in heaven , when these to whom the keys are given , binde and loose ; and so they are to be looked unto as co-workers with god. now scripture never maketh all believers ambassadours in christs roome . where doe we reade that the despising of all believers commanding in christs name , is a despising of christ , and that in obeying them , we obey christ ? nor are all ambassadors , pastores , &c. . these to whom the keys are given doe authoritatively forgive and retaine sins , and their acts of forgiveing and retaining are valid in heaven , according as the party repenteth and believeth , or according as they remain impenitent , as our divines teach against the papists , in their doctrine of sacramentall absolution . but the church , or company of believers wanting their officers , by no scripture can authoritatively forgive , and retaine si●s . robinson , smith and others answer , that believers out of office may forgive , as mat. . . peter said , how oft shall my brother offend me , and i forgive him ? lu. . . . cor. . . but i answer , the place , cor. . . is controverted , and we doubt not , but of that same nature , with the power of excommunicating . cor. . . but for private forgiving , it is not the church-forgiving here meant , because . the private forgiving is a duty of charity commanded in the law of nature to all , even out of church-state , and obligeth the excommunicate , who , though they be cast out of the church , are not exempted from the law , that bindeth all , mat. . . , . mat. . . . but the church-forgiving is an act of obedience to a positive church-law of christ , . private christians are to forgive their enemies whether they repent , or not , even as christ forgave those who crucified him , col . . luk. . . and when the party repenteth not , this forgivenesse is not ratified in heaven , yet are we obliged to forgive , and to commit vengeance to god ; but the authoritative forgiveing is a thing that the church , is not obliged unto , absoiutely ; nor may they , or can they forgive , except the offender repent : and if they see that he repenteth not , they cannot lawfully forgive ; but , being in gods roome , must take vengeance on all disobedience , and their retaining of sin and forgiveing , is valid in heaven , because they are in gods place . now any forgiving or retaining of sin but these two , together with gods forgiving and retaining , we know not . but peters forgiving his offending brother seventy times seven times , is common to all private christians , even out of church-state , and so the instance given is not to the purpose , . to these only are the keys given , who having pauls pastorall spirit , may convene and deliver to sathan , but the church of believers without officers , not having pauls pastorall spirit which is a spirit officiall , and authoritative to preach , excommunicate , and administrate the seales of the covenant , may not convene and doe this ; ergo , &c. indeed a francis johnson sayth it is holden now by some of the separation , that people out of office may execute all the workes and duties of the ministery , in baptisme , the lords supper , censures , &c. which i thinke followeth from the grounds of our brethren , to wit , that believers without office are a compleat church , having the whole power of the keys : if administration of the sacraments be not a speciall part of the keys , and the opening of heaven and forgiving of sins , we know not what belongeth to the power of binding and loosing ; yea this is not only contrary to scripture b but also to their c own confession , and d is the doctrine of arminians e and socinians f cartwright sayth the sanedrin , mat. . to these who have skill in the rabbines , especially in the iewes talm●d , was a selected judicatory , and that to this christ alludeth mat. . g learned beza , sayth much from scripture for this , that the church here signifieth not the multitude , h parcus also is most cleare on this place i calvin hath reason to say , he alludeth to iewish synedrie , k see also vveems . i● it needlesse to cite iunius , zanchius , peter martyr , vvillet , whittaker , tilen , becan , and all our divines of the reformed churches ; for when he hath spoken of the church representative , mat. . , . and speaketh to these , to whom the sermon was made , v. . at the same time came the disciples to jesus ( they were then apostles in office and called to preach and baptize , though not yet sent to the whole world ) saying who is the greatest in the kingdom of god ? now to these christ sayth , . to the apostles , verily i say to you , whatsoever you shall bind on earth ; and this place is to be expounded by mat. . . where the keys are given in a more restricted manner to peter only , though as representing the whole apostles and church-rulers , and we have better reason to expound this place , mat. . by the place foregoing , mat. . then they have to expound the place , mat. . by this place , mat. . because these ●am● keys that binde and loose in the one place , remit and retaine finnes , in the other ; and we find the keys given to officers and stewards only . and here is no church , mat. . or yet mat. . without pastors , except they say , that christ mat. . . speaketh not to the disciples , but to the multitude of the jewes , which is a great crossing of the text. and to say , that christ speaketh to the apostles , not as to apostles , but as to the church of believers , is only a bare affertion , and cannot be proved , and all they can say , hangeth upon this one place , and this is the most . the power of binding and loosing is given to the church , which is to be obeyed and heard in the place of god. but this church , is never in the vvord of god ( say they ) taken for a company of officers , pastors , and elders only ; it signifieth alwayes the body of christ , his spouse , his saints by calling , partakers of the most holy faith. to which i answer , the body , spouse of christ , and saints by calling , as they are such , is the invisible church , and the keys and seales a sayth this author ) are not to be dispensed to all the faithfull as such , but as they arè confederate or joyned together in some particular visible church , that is , sayth he ) as they are members of a visible church ; ergo , &c. the body and spouse of christ , as such , is not the church here meant of , but the visible congregation . now the essence of a visible church of which christ speaketh here , is saved in ten , who are only visible professors , and not a church of sound believers , not the true body mysticall and spouse of christ : and yet , by this place , the keys are given to such a church ; now wee desire againe , a place , in all gods word , for a church in this sense , and a body of christ and his spouse in this meaning : for certainly , professors this way confederate , as professiors , are no more a church of christ , redeemed ones , and his spouse , then an assembly of elders onely can be called such a church of believers ; for both churches are , and may be ; where no believers are at all , at least for a time , and even while they exercise this power of binding and loosing , and so th● place , matthew . is as much against our brethren , as against us . and lastly our doctrine is acknowledged , by all our divines , against the papists , proving that mat. . the keyes were given to peter as representing the apostles , and his successors in the pastorall charge , not as representing all believers . also the fathers irenaeus , nazianz●nus , cyprianus , basilius , ambrosius , theophilactus , cyrillus , euthymius , hyeronimus , augustine , beda , chrysostomus . and ordinaria glossa , hugo de sanct . victor . haymo . cardinalis cusanus . anastasius , leo , durandus , thomas , adrianus , scotus , making a comparison between peter and the rest of the apostles , say , the keys were given to all the apostles , when they were given to peter : and peter received them in the name and person of the rest of the apostles , wherby , they declare , it was never their mind that peter received the keys in name of all believers . also the learned , as a augustine b beda c gregorius , expound the church builded upon the rock to be the catholick church , and not a particular visible church . and d gerardus giveth a good reason , why this church , mat. . cannot be a particular visible church , because the gates of hell prevaileth against many joyned to the visible church in externall society , e and vvicklif writing against the monkes resureth that error of the papists , that any members of the true church can be damned ; and f whittaker sayth , augustin g against petilian sayth , the church builded on the rock is the church of the elect , not the visible church . chap. . sect . . prop. this church ( saith the author ) doth meete together every lords day , all of them , even the whole church , for administration of the ordinances of god , to publick edification . ans. two things are here said , . that all , even the whole church , must meete for administration of the ordinances of god , that so all and every one of the church may be actors and judges in dispensing of censures , this we take to be popular governement . . that there is a necessity of personall presence of all and every one of the church ▪ hence quest. . whether or no the multitude of believers , and the whole people are to be judges , so , as private christians out of office are to exercise judiciall acts of the keys ? for the more easie clearing of the question , let it be observed . . dist. there is a dominion of government lordly and kingly , and this is in christ only in relation to his church and in civill judges , and is no wayes in church - guides , who are not lords over the lords inheritance ; there is a government ministeriall , of service , under christ , and this is due to church-guides . . dist. regall power , being a civill power founded in the law of nature ( for the ants have a king ) may well be in the people originally and subjectively , as in the fountaine , nature teaching every communitie to govern themselves , and to hold off injuries , if not by themselves , yet by a king , or some selected rulers ; but power of church-government being supernaturall , and the acts of church-government , and of the casting such as offend out of christs kingdome , being supernaturall , neither of them can be originally in the multitude of professing beleevers , but must be communicated by christ to some certaine professing beleevers , and these are officers . therefore to put power and acts of government in all professors , is a naturall way drawne from civill incorporations . christ is not ruled by our lawes . . dist. the government of christs kingdome is the most free and willing government on earth ; yet it is a government properly so called , for there be in it authoritative commandements , and ecclefiasticke coaction , upon the danger of soule penalties ; in regard of the former , all the people by consent and voluntary agreement have hand in election of officers , inflicting of censures , because it concerneth them all : but in regard of the latter , the whole people are not over the whole people ; they are not all kings reigning in christs government over kings , but are divided into governours and governed ; and therefore the rulers ecclesiasticke onely , by power of office , are in christs roome , over the church , to command , sentence , judge , and judicially to censure . . distinct. the officiall power of governing superaddeth to the simple acts of popular consenting , the officiall authoritative and coactive power of christs sceptor in discipline . that distinction in the sense holden by our brethren a that the state of the church is popular , and the government aristocraticall in the hands of the eldership , is no wayes to he holden ; nor doe the parisian b doctors , the authors of this distinction , mind any church-government to be in the people . our brethren in the answer to the questions sent to them from england , explaine their minde thus : . we acknowledge a presbytery , whose worke it is to teach and rule , and whom the people ought to obey , and we condemne a meere popular government , such as our writers condemne in morellius . they adde ▪ government meerly aristocraticall , where all authority is in the hands of the eldership , excluding the people from intermedling by way of power , we conceive to be without warrant and injurious to the people , infringing their liberties in chusing officers , admitting members , censuring offenders , even ministers , col. . . to which doctrine we oppose these conclusions : . concl. our brethren hold a meere popular government , with morellius . . because nothing is left peculiar in government to the officers which all the people have not . . because a greater power of church-jurisdiction , as i shall prove , is given to the people then to the guides ; for , cursing by excommunication of all the officers , and blessing of them by pardoning their faults , and admitting of members and laying on of hands , is the greatest power that can be given to people . but this and many other acts of jurisdiction the people have by our brethrens doctrine . . the people is no more obedient to the eldership , in teaching , then indians and infidels , who are hearers of the word , and are under an obligation to obey the word ; and under the very same obligation of an evangelicke offer made to all : the people ( say they ) are under the obligation of obedience to pastorall teaching , under the paine of church censures , but so are not indians , who may be onely hearers , but are in no church-membership . i answer , obligation to church censures from the pastors , as pastors , lyeth not on the people , by our brethrens doctrine . . because pastors , as pastors , are not the church builded on the rocke , nor the spouse of christ , nor any part thereof ; nor any part of the visible church , to the which christ hath given the keys : for the visible church is a compleate church in esse , & in operari , in their being and church actions of a visible church without all pastors of any officers , as they teach . . because pastors are onely parts of the visible church , as believers , and so have the power of the keyes as believers ; and this the believers have , which the pastors have not ; and so seeing the pastors as pastors have not the keyes , nor can they use the keyes , or excommunicate as parts or members of the visible church ; because , as pastors , they are neither parts nor members of the church , but adjuncts , and meere accidents of the visible church , and therefore the people are under no obligation of obedience to pastors , as pastors under paine of ecclesiasticke censures , more then indians or infidels , who are their hearers . . concl. christ hath given no warrant at all of actuall church government , to all the whole visible church . . so the places that i cited before a iadde the styles of officiall dignity given to officers , because of their government , are given onely to officers , and never to the people ; ergo , the people have no power of government ; the consequence is sure , those who are priviledged of christ to governe , ordinarily should be , and duely are governours . but the stile of gods is given to church-guides , ioh. . , . ioh. . . which title for governing is given to judges , psalm . . . exod. . . and his master shall bring him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the judges . now the people are not gods , nor are they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , heb. . . over the people in the lord. which word , no doubt , the apostle borrowed from the septuagint , so stiling the rulers , not because of their place of preaching onely , but of governing also , as jos. . . micah . . ezech. . . dan. . . acts . . matth. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and it is given to the kings or supreame rulers , pet. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , so it is frivolous , that they say church-officers are never called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : for these words of officiall power of government are no lesse powerfull , and never communicated to any but to church-officers , such as are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , watchmen , not onely for preaching , but also for government , phil. . . tim. . . acts . . and the people are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , governours , cor. . . nor are they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rom. . . nor obliged to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rulers , as they are the visible church , nor should they bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tim. . . nor are they to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , labourers , and over the saints in the lord. thess. . . . if all the people as contradistinguished from officers , are to watch over one another , and by office to rebuke , censure , excommunicate , ordaine , and exauthorate officers , then must they in conscience attend the judging of all causes , of adultery , fornication , drunkennesse , swearing , oppressing , defrauding one another , as they fall under scandall . now this is a calling distinct from their owne calling , in respect the holy ghost alloweth to the elders stipend and maintenance , tim. . . yea , and hire as to labourers , matth. . . as to souldiers , husbandmen , dress●rs of vineyards , feeders of flocks , cor. . , . yea , as to the oxe that treadeth out , or thresheth the corne , vers . . and by this all the people are made officers and stipendiaries , to whom by the law of god and nature stipend is due : now this looscth them from their own proper callings of merchandise , trading , husbandry , laws , medicine , manufactures , and maketh all these callings sinfull & unlawfull to the saints by calling , who are members of a visible church , according to that tim. . . no man that warreth , in t angleth himselfe with the affairs ( or callings ) of this life , which is grosse anabaptisme condemned by gods word , cor. . , . eph. . . col. . . thess. . . now certainly , if actuall government , with the power of the keyes , be committed to all the members of the visible church , the epistles to timothy and titus , and canons of right government must be written to timothy and titus , not as to pastors , but as to beleevers , as the keyes were given in peters person , and a warrant to binde and loose , matth . matth. . as representing beleevers , not as to a pastor : then they are to commit the word to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , and to give up their earthly callings , as tim. . , . and to lay hands suddenly on no man , and not to receive a testimony against an elder , but before two or three witnesses , tim. . , . and to war a good warfare , tim. . . and this must needs follow , since separatists teach , that all the people are obliged in conscience to judge , and to be personally present , and that by their office and church-calling , when ever any sentence is given out against offenders ; for , if the elders be onely present and the people absent , the elders shall tyrannize * ( saith answorth ) over the peoples consciences ; for the people being absent shall not know if the eldership have proceeded right , yet must they repute the excommunicated person as an heathen or a publicane . . arg. that government is not to be admitted which maketh men take honour to themselves , without god calling them thereunto . but the doctrine of government in the hands of people is such , ergo ; the assumption is proved : . by it , all are kings , rulers , and guides , and all have the most supreame power of the keyes , as authoritative receiving in of members , and judiciall casting out , by the pastorall spirit of paul , and all governe over all . . beleevers are a ministeriall church , a company of private christians put in office , and doing acts of a ministeries now a ministerie is a peculiar state of eminency that god calle●h some selected & gifted persons unto that to the which he calle●h not all professors , as in israel he chosed , one tr be a to minister to himselfe , not all the visible church of israel , as the scripture teacheth us . ministers of the house of god , the levites , the lords ministers , ministers of gods sanctuary , and the ministery of the b new testament , is a speciall emi●ency of office given to some few , and not to all believers , c a matter of worke that some , not all believers are put upon , and employed in , d the act , of the ministery not common to all , but restricted to the ministers of the church , and not common to the whole visible church . now to ordaine elders , excommunicate , admit members into the church , are positive actes of a received ministery , and must flow from an other principle , then that which is common to all professing believers . . arg. all who have received such a ministeriall state to discharge such excellent and noble actes , as laying on of hands , receiving of witnesses , committing the gospell to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , and must save some by gentle awaiting , and stop the mouthes of other pastors , as a the scripture saith , these must acquit themselves as approved worke-men to god , and shall therefore receive a crowne of glory at the appearance of the chiefe shepheard , and must in a speciall manner fight the good fight of faith , and must be worke-men who neede not to be ashamed . but these are not required of all the church visible ; all are not men of god , and ministeriall souldiers of christ , and feeders of the flock , but only such as timothy , titus , and elders like to peter , as these b scriptures prove . for the reward of a prophet is not due to all . . arg. that government is not of god which taketh away the ordinary degrees of members in christs body the church . but government exercised by all the visible body taketh away the deversity of offices , members , places , of rulers and ruled , ergo ; i prove the assumption . . all have one and alike equall power of governing , all the members are one in place , and office , all are eyes , all eares , all are hands , according as all have one joynt and common interest , and claime to christ. one is not an eye and head in relation to another : for all are both governours and governed , all the watchmen , and all the city ; all the flock , and all the feeders , all the house , and all rulers , key-bearers , stewards , all the children of the house , all the fathers , tutors , to bring up , nu●ture , and correct the children . . if the power and use of the keys result from this , that the corporation is the spouse , body , sister of christ , the redeemed flock , what should hinder but according as god inequally dispenseth the measure of grace , to some more , to some l●sse , so some should have more , some lesse power of the keys , and some exercise more eminent acts of government , as they be more eminent in grace ; some lesse eminent acts ; and if we grant this , we cannot deny the order of a hierarchy amongst pastors . this connexion may be denied happily by our brethren , but there is no reason , if their arguments be good , they alwayes conclude church-power from the graces of the members of the church . . concl. it is cleare then that the state of the church cannot be called popular , and the government aristocraticall , or in the hands of the elders , as our brethren meane . . because by our brethren , the government and the most eminent and authoritative acts thereof are in the hands of the people . ergo , both state and government are popular . . because the people are not only to consent to the censures , and acts of government , but also authoritatively to judge with coequal power with the eldership , as they prove from , cor. . . . a the parisian doctors , the authors of this distinction acknowledge a visible monarchy in the church , and are far from popular government . let us heare what our brethren say for the government of the people , and their judiciall power in generall . quest. . our brethren say , the colossians are exhorted , col. . . to say to archippus , take heed to the ministery , that thou hast received of the lord , to fulfill it in all points ; ergo , the people are to censure and rebuke the pastors , and therfore they may , and ought to exercise acts authoritative . ans. . this is an argument off the way with reverence . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 say to archippus , take heede , ergo , say judicially and rebuke with all authority , it is an argument à genere ad speciem affirmativè , and a non-consequence , mat. . . if he will not heare them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tell the church ; ergo , exercise an act of authority over the church , ioh. . . the jewes said unto him . ergo , they said it authoritatively , ioh. . . if we say , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we have no sinne ; by no authority can we say we have no sinne , luk. . . take not thought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 what ye shall say rev. . . . the fathers , as a augustine , b chrysostome , c ambrose , d hyeronimus ; the schoolemen , as e aquinas , f d. bannes , g suarez , say , correcting of our brother is , ( sublevatio miseriae peccantis . ) a succouring of the misery of a sinner . h cajetan●ait , actum correctionis elici à prudentia , imperari à misericordia : to warne or rebuke our brother is an act of prudence commanded by mercy and compassion . i and. duvalius saith , it is an act , non solum juris divini , sed etiam naturalis ; and he citeth lev. . thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart , but shalt rebuke him ; and shall beare one anothers burdens , and so fulfill the law of christ. and k greg. de valent. saith it is a spirituall almes , & actum misericordiae , quo subveniatur spirituali necessitati fratris . so the doctors l of the canon law. so the fathers say , m as basilius , esse benevolentiam potius , quam severitatem . n augustin . vulnus fratr is contemnis , vides cum perire & negligis , pejor es tu tacendo , quam ille te offendendo . o excellently hieronim . sivide at in corpore carnes putridas , & dicat . an ad me pertinet ? scias , quiae crudelis est . and p nazianz. charitatem potius hic quam potestatem ostendendam . to rebuke is a worke of charity , rather then of power . q calvin saith , good ministers stand in need to be admonished . r davenant thinketh that archippus in the absence of epaphras his collegue was to supply his absence , and , it is like , was somewhat cold , and therefore needed to be admonished . but because the collossians were to exercise an act of mercy towards their pastor , which the law of nature enjoyned them , it is a wide inference , therefore they had church authority and power over him , to censure , deprive excommunicate him ; so the faithfull receiveth a charge , hos. . . say ye to your brethren ammi , and to your sisters ruhammah . . plead with your mother , plead ; pleading for wheredomes is more then a simple exhorting of archippus , yet none can well collect from these words , that those faithfull who kept themselves cleane from the common defection , had power of jurisdiction over their breth en , sisters , and mother , to censure them judicially , and by authority to un-church them . and certainely the apostle , if he had commanded here the judiciall act of church-jurisaiction to all the saints of colosle , men and women who may admonish archippus , we we would looke he had said , ( command , and charge with all authority archippus to take heed to his ministery . ) also , it is much to be doubted , if the duties of rebuking , exhorting , and comforting one another , be positive acts of church-membership , which the fellow-members of a visible congregation owe one to another by vertue of a church-covenant , or that the people owe to the pastor in a church way , for these ( ex hort , teach , comfort one another ) are duties mutuall , not restricted to fellow-members of a visible church , or parish , but such as we owe to all the members of the catholique church , as we are occasionally in company with them . yea , and duties ( as our brethren say ) that sister churches owe to sister churches , and acts of the law of nature that we owe to all , as brethren , not as brethren in church-membership , levit. . . onely . i will here answer : what robinson saith , a by the keyes is meant the gospell opening a way by christ and his merits , as the doore into the kingdome , the power of binding and loosing , opening and shutting heaven , is not tied to any office or order in the church , it dependeth onely upon christ , who alone properly forgiveth sinnes , and hath the key of david , and this key externally is the gospell , which , with himselfe , he giveth to the church , isa. . . rom. . . ergo , the keyes are given to all , though not to be used by all and every one alike , which were grosse confusior . the keyes were not given to peter as prince of the apostles , as papists say , nor to peter as chiefe officer of the church , and so to prelates ; nor to peter as a minister of the word and sacraments ; but we say , to the conf●ssion of faith , which peter made by way of answer to christs demand , and therefore to every faithfull man and woman , who have received the like precious faith with peter , pet. . . ans. . if the keyes be given to as many as the gospell is given unto , all have the keyes who are beleevers , children , women , whether within or without the church ; for all have obtained alike precious faith . so it is vaine to speake there of a church builded on the rock● , or of any ministeriall churc● . . the keyes are not given to the naked office or order , distinct from the spirits working and proving the acts of preaching and discipline to be mighty through god , cor. . to open hearts , act. . . for what , or who is paul ? and who is apollo , but ministers by whom ye beleeved ? cor. . . and christ alone worketh with the sacraments , and without him great iohn baptist can but baptize with water . joh. . . yet all say administration of sacraments externally is so tied to the office , as none can administer them without warrant , but pastors , john . math. . cor. . . and therefore this is weake , to prove that because christ onely hath the keyes of the word ; yea , and of the sacraments also . that therefore he hath not committed the keyes to certaine officers under him , who are stewards , and key-bearers . . the places alledged prove not is. . . christ is given to us , that is , to the church , as to the subject ; o say it not , but to us the church , as the object and end for our salvation . ergo , the keyes and the gospell are given to the church , yea and to every faithfull , that they may , by preaching , open and shut heaven . you cannot say so . also rom. . . to the jewes were committed the oracles and scriptures , that every one might be a priest and prophet , to teach and sacrifice ; it is a shame to say so : but to the jewes , as to the object and end , that by the scriptures and faith in these oracles , they might be saved . . the keyes , that is , the gospell , is given to all , though not to be used alike by all and every one ; which were grosse confusion : that is the same we say , the gospell in use is not given alike to all ; but to the believers as to the object and end ; to the officers , as to the subject and proper instrument . and so you fall into grosse confusion while you eschew it . robinson , a the keyes be one and the same in efficacy and nature , and depend not upon the number and excellencie of any persons , but upon christ alone , though the order and manner of using them be different . ans. the sacraments remaine one and the same in nature and efficacy , who ever be the persons , many or few , excellent or not excellent , in whose hands soever they be ; it followeth not therefore , the power of administration of sacraments is given to all . . we see no difference in the order and manner of using the keyes ; if all , even a faithfull man or woman either , may also truly and effectually loose and binde both in heaven and in earth , as all the ministers of the world , for those be b your words . robinson . c these keyes in doctrine may be turned also as well upon them , which are without the church , as upon them which are within , and their sinnes either loosed or bound , matth. . in discipline not so , but onely on them that are within . cor. . answ. if this distinction were in gods word , we would receive it , but seeing by preaching there is receiving in and casting out , and binding and loosing . i aske , how these , who were never within , can bee judged and cast out by preaching more then by discipline ; may pastors judge these who are without by preaching , and not judge those who are without by discipline , and that in a setled church ? robinson . a there is an use of the keyes publike , ministeriall , by men in office , by the whole church joyntly together , or private , by one person severally who is out of office , and yet the power of the gospell is still one and the same , notwithstanding the divers manner of using it . answ. . if one alone have the keyes spoken of , matth. . there be keyes ministeriall made by christ before the house be builded , and have walls , roofe , or doore , the keyes all take to be metaphoricall , and to presuppose a company , a constituted church , where some are put in , some put out ; these private keyes of women to open and shut heaven upon men , and so to usurpe authoritie over the man , are no church-keyes , and if they be not church-keyes they are not for our dispute . robinson b if the keyes of the kingdome of heaven be appropriated to the officers , then can there be no forgivenesse of sinnes without the officers , and there is no entrance into heaven but by the doore , there is no climbing over any other way , and without the key the doore cannot be opened : then if there be no officers in the church , or if they take away the key of knowledge c then must the multitude perish eternally . answ. though the keyes be appropriated to officers , it followeth not , there is no forgivenesse of sinnes , nor opening of heaven at all without officers ; but onely no ecclesiasticall forgivenesse , no church-opening by a ministeriall power , but through ministeriall keyes ; and opening cannot ordinarily be without officer● . faith commeth by hearing , ergo , no faith by reading . baptisme saveth , ergo , no salvation without baptisme , so doe anabaptists reason , as saith d gerardus ; so reasoneth a socinus , averring , it is a worke of charity necessary to salvation , therefore all may preach ; and the same doth both the raccovian● b catechisme and c ostorodius say , yea , and theoph. nicolaides d defending muncerus the anabaptist . though keyes bee a publike ordinary meane in a constituted church , it followeth not therefore , there is no other way of opening heaven . in the sacraments remission of sinnes is sealed , and heaven opened , it follows not therefore , all may administer the sacraments . . what inference is here ? if the keyes bee appropriated to officers , then people must perish when officers faile ; certainly so saith the lords spirit : proved . e where there is no vision , the people perish ; and this is a fearfull soul judgement , when god removeth the f candlestick ▪ g and there is no prophet to shew how long ; h and the people are plagued with a famine of the word of god ; yet there be other meanes then publike ministery . he addeth : i they which may forgive sinne and sinners , save soules , gaine and turne men to the lord , to them are the keys of the kingdome of heaven given , by which they open the doore to such as they thus forgive , gaine , and save . but all th●se , such as are no ministers may doe , as matth. . . corinth . . , , , , . acts . . answ. the proposition is false , for all who open the doore by exhorting and gaining soules , as christians in no church-state may in some cases doe , have not the church-keyes ; for this were to make church keyes without any church , and to make keyes without house , doore , or lock : for the keyes are metaphorically so called , with necessary relation to the church , the house of god , and to the stewards of the house ; the places alleadged are the controversie it selfe , and to others of them i shall answer hereafter . robinson . k the twelve apostles were not called to the office of apostles , matth. . ergo , they doe not as apostles receive the keyes . answ. i trust to prove the contrary hereafter . . if the apostles , matth. . received not the keyes , by no warrant are the keyes given to pastors at all . robinson . l every servant in the house , no lesse then officers have authority ; for the word carrieth authority with it whither soever it goeth , matth. . . and all have received some good thing or gift for the good of the church , and all should watch , but especially the porter . answ. what can be hence collected ? ergo , the keyes are given to all , and all are porters , and all should watch as porters ; for , the word of exhorting given to all , is of like authority when a woman or boy speaketh it , as when a prophet speaketh it . but it is not good to helpe arminius and jesuits , who reason for universall grace given to all and every one from these parables : mr. pemble , and opposers of jesuits , in the doctrine of grace , expound this of pastors . . but let the parable speake of all ; all have authority , because all have the word , all who privately exhort have the word , have authority objective , and of divine obligation , as christians , it is true ; ergo , all have the keyes , it followeth not : but all who privately and occasionally exhort , have not authority officiall by the calling of god and his church , and therefore they have not this , they have not the keyes ; and the word by publike preaching none have , but usurpers , ( save onely called officers ) and because they steale the word , they steale the keyes also ; and because the sacraments have authority from god , it followeth not therefore that baptisme administrated by women is of authority . robinson m acknowledgeth , that elders and bishops were ordained to suppresse false doctrine , and lay hands suddenly on no man ; but it followeth not ( saith he ) that they are to doe this there alone . answ. there alone they must lay on hands , that is , with the presbytery , and in a judiciall way excluding all the people ; for people never in the new testament laid on hands upon any , to ordaine them elders , nor did they it in the old testament . robinson . n the officers , ephes . . are chosen of christ to watch ; so mark . the porter should watch ; ergo , the rest of the servants should not watch , it followeth not , officers are to knit together the saints , and so are all who are spirituall , gal. . . the officers are to edifie , so are all to edifie one another , thess. . . answ. the argument must be thus , these who are to watch , to knit together the saints , to edifie them , have received the keys , and are governours , and are officers ; but all the faithfull are to watch , to knit together the saints , ergo ; first , the major is false ; for if because the saints may edifie , they shall have joynt power and use of the keys with the officers , they may administrate the sacraments . now , because they may in a christian way doe some acts of edifying , it followeth not that therefore they may doe these acts by power of the keyes , and with an ecclesiasticall and church-power ; they may doe the same duty , ergo , with the same power . a scholler may teach his school-fellow the same lesson that his master doth teach him ; ergo , he may doe it by the same magisteriall authority : a wife may cure a disease , ergo , shee may by the same authority that a doctor of physicke , approved by the incorporation of physicians , cure a disease , it followeth not : beleeve me , so still doth a socinus , and b ostorodius , c theoph. nicolaides , reason against gods ordinance of a sent ministerie . d robins . god hath indeed set in the body some to be eyes and mouth , and hath not said to all the church , goe and preach ; but , first , they have not their gifts from the church . secondly , you would have the body to starve , if such hands as deacons will not feed ; and all the body blinde , if the eyes of the watchmen be blinde . answ. yet thus much is granted , that gifts give not the keyes , nor authority to use gifts ; and so that all beleevers , though gifted and graced also , have not power of the keyes . . it 's certaine , that in a constituted church there be no hands nor mouthes to doe and speake by authority , and ex officio , by vertue of an office , save onely elders and pastors , and that if they doe or speake , they doe it extraordinarily , when churches hands are lame , and her eyes blinde ; or if they doe and speake ordinarily , it is from the law of charity in a private way , not by power of the keyes , and as judges and officers . manuscript . ch . sect . the churches , not the angels of the churches , are blamed for not executing censures against balaam , jezabel , the nicolaitans . ( g ) robinson saith more , . these whose workes christ commendeth , for that dwelling where sathans throne was , they kept his name and denyed not his faith ; these he reproveth for suffering the doctrine of balaam and the nicolaitans , , , . . they which were commended by christ , for their workes , love , service , faith , patience , increase of workes ; are reproved for suffering jezabel , but these were not the angels onely . . these conjunctions ( but ) ( never the lesse ) say , though they were z●alous in many things , yet they failed in not being zealous enough against false teachers . ans. . these connexions prove guiltinesse in angels or pastors , and one common fault may be laid upon them all , but hence it followeth not ; that they all , abused one and the same power of the keyes , as being all collaterall judges , no doubt the angels preached not against balaam , j●zabel , and the nicolaitans doctrine , and yet women dwelt where sathans throne is , and there faith and patience was commended , and yet our brethren will not say women are rebuked , and all the beleevers , because they did not pastorally preach against balaam , and iezabel ; so this argument hurteth them as much as our cause . the pastors were guilty , because they did not in their place use the keyes ; and the people , because they did not say to archippus and their officers , take heed how you governe ; as israel was involved in achans trespasse , because they warned not one another . . seeing the spirit of god maketh mention of churches in the plurall number , and every one of the seven churches , of ephesus , rev. . . of s●yrna , v. . of pergamus . of thyatira of sardis . . philadelphia . laodicea . it is cleare , there were more churches then a single congregation , and an independent incorporation in every one of them , and so a presbytery of angels in every one of them behoved to be guilty of this neglect of discipline , yet not all one and the same way . it is not cleare enough , though that the whole church in ephesus was to be rebuked , or that all and every one of the elders , whereof there were a good number , ( act. . . he prayed with them all they all wept sore , ) were guilty of these abuses of the power of the keyes ; for in sardis there were a few names which had not defiled their garments , yet the whole body is rebuked . manuscript , ch. . sect. . when the word congregation is put for the elders or judges only , it is never understood of them sitting in consistery and judgement there alone by themselves , and apart from the people , but in the presence of the publick assembly , who also had liberty in such cases to rescue an innocent from unjust judgment , sam. . . i answer , we urge not a church assembly of elders only to exclude the people from hearing yea and in an orderly way , from speaking , reasoning and disputing even in our generall assembly , but for judiciall concluding , we find not that given to any , but to the church-guides , act. . . act. . . it is not a good argument , the people sate with the rulers and rescued innocent jonathan , sam. . therefore all the people may fit and give judiciall sentence or impede the elders to sentence any . this i grant , is alledged by ainsnorth a for to give popular government to the people ; as also , king . . and ier. . , . but . a fact of the people is not a law. . it was one fact and that in an extraordinary case of extreame iniquity in killing innocent ionathan a prince and leader of the people . . in a civill businesse , and the people were to be executioners of the sentence of death , and they saw it manifestly unjust . . they were not the common people only , but in thar company were the princes of the tribes and heads , and the king and his family only on the other side ; what will this infer , but that there were no kings in israel , who had power of life and death , nor any judges , as ainsworth , contrary to scripture sayth , but that the people were joynt judges with the king , and that the people in the new testament are co-equall judges with the elders , from so poore an example ; and so the separatists b proving from the peoples power of judging in civill causes ( which yet is a wide mistake ) and a punishment bodily to be inflicted upon strangers as c paget doth learnedly observe ; doe conclude the peoples power of judging in ecclesiastick causes , which concerneth only the members of the visible church . manuscript . we grant , it is orderly to tell the elders the offence , that the whole church be not frivolously troubled ; but it followeth not , that the officers may judge there alone without consent of the people : he who told his complaint to the levite , told it orderly enough to the whole congregation assembled at mizpeh jud. . ans. these to whom we are to complaine , these and these only , are to be heard , and obeyed as judges binding and loosing in earth and validly in heaven , mat. . but these are not the multitude , nor one elder only , but the church of elders . . if the church of believers be the only subject ( as you teach ) of the keys , and not the elders , but in so far as they are parts of the believing church , then it is more orderly to complaine to the multitude who only are proper judges , then to elders who are not properly judges . manuscript . a second reason why we allow such power to the people in church censures , is from the church of corinth . . he directeth the whole church of corinth to whom he writeth , to excomunicate the incestuous man. ans. he writeth to all the faithfull , and so to women ; the woman is not to usurpe authority over the man , cor. . . tim. . , . but to voyce judicially in excommunication is an act of apostolick authority . manuscript . ib. the whole church is to be gathered together and to excommunicate , ergo not the bishop and elders alone , . pauls spirit was to be with them and christs authority , . the whole church , cor. . did forgive him , . nothing is in the text that attributeth any power to the presbytery apart , or singularly above the rest , but as the reproofe is directed to all , for not mourning , so is the commandement of casting out directed to all . ans. . it is cleare that if some were gathered together in the power of christ and the spirit of paul , that is , in the authority that he received over the corinthians , for edification , . cor. . . and pauls rod , cor. . . then as many as were convened church-ways , and mourned not for the same , did not cast out and authoritatively forgive ; seeing women and believing children did convene with the whole church , and were not humbled for the sinne ; and yet women and believing children cannot be capable of pastorall authority over the church , which was given for edification . . the power of the lord jesus , that is , the keys of the kingdom of god were committed to peter , as to a pastor , mat. . and power to bind and retaine , to loose and pardon sinnes , joh. . , , . which power is given to these who are sent as ambassadors as the father sent christ , v. . which power cannot be given to puffed up women , . except this be said , the text must beare that there was not a presbytery of prophets , governors and teachers there of all , who had a more eminent act in excommunicating and church pardoning , then the women who mourned not , for by what reason our brethren would have the act of excommunicating an act of the whole church convened , including all to whom paul writeth , women and children , by that same reason we may appropriate it to these only , who are capable of pauls pastorall spirit , and authority , according as attributes are appropriated ( by good logick ) to their own subjects , else that cannot be expounded cor. . . for ye may all prophecy one by one . what ? may all that the apostle writeth unto , cor. . . prophecy one by one ? even the whole church , even all sanctified in christ jesus ? called to be saints , and all that in every place call upon the lord iesus ? i thinke our brethren will not say so : so when paul sayth , thess. . . esteem highly of these that are over you if that command be directed to the whole church of the thessalonians which is in god our father , as the epistle is directed to them all , thess. . . then doth paul command the elders in thessalonica to esteem highly of themselves , for their own workes sake : if exhortations be not restricted according to the nature of the subject in hand we shall mock the word of god , and make it ridiculous to all . ainsworth sayth , the putting away of leaven was commanded to all israel . ergo , the putting away of the incestuous person is commanded to them all in corinth without exception , and the putting away of the leper was commanded to all israel . i answer . . proportions are weake probations , . every single woman , . privately in her own house , . without churches consent and authority was to put away leaven ; but it is a poore inference , therefore every woman in corinth he●e alone might excommunicate without the churches authority , and in their private houses . . the priest only judicially putteth away the leper , deut. . . and the priests without the peoples consent put out uzzah their prince from the sanctuary , when he was a leper . . ch●on . . . manuscript . lest this judgement should be restrained to presbyteries only , he magnifieth the judging of the saints , taking occasion from thence to stretch their judicature , in some cases , even to the deciding of civill causes , rather then that they should fly suddenly to law one against another , before infidels . ans. that upon this church judging , he taketh occasion to magnifiy the judging of the saints , i see not , for he passeth to a new subject in reprehending their pleadng , before heathen judges . . though that cohesion of the chapters were granted , yet doth he not magnifie the judging , of all the multitude , the saints of men and women shall judge the world by assenting to gods judging , but all the saints , even women , are not church-iudges . also he extendeth judging of civill causes to the most eminent seniors amongst them v. . is there not a wise-man amongst you ? no , not one who shal be able to judge betwixt his brethren ? and therefore he layeth a ground , that far lesse can all the rest of men and women be judges ecclesiastick to binde and loose validly in earth and heaven , but onely the wiser and selected elders . i may adde what master robinson sayth , that our argument from confession , may be objected to the apostles no lesse then to separatists , acts . . they presented two ; that is , the multitude which were about an hundred and twenty men and women , and act . . and the while multitude presented seven deacons to the twelue apostles , and the twelve apostles called the multitude , and so spake to them and v. . prayed and laid hands on the deacons . now when the multitude acts . presented joseph and matthias , it behoved them to speak ; spake they joyntly , or all at once ? this were confusion , contrary to , cor. . . did the women speak ? they must not meddle in church-maters , v. . did children speak ? it is impossible ; so acts . did all the twelve apostles speak at once ? and pray ( vocally ) at once ? did the whole multitude speak when they presented the seven deacons ? that is confusion ; by these and the like , women and children are utterly excluded from the church , as no parts of it , acts . . the whole church sent messengers to antioch , co● . . . the whole church commeth together in one , to exercise themselves in praying and prophecying , but children could not send messengers nor pray , nor prophecy , and women might not speak in the church , and therefore women and children must be excluded from being parts of the church ; if one be excluded , why not another ? and so till we come to the chiefe of the congreation . ans. this is much for us every way ; therefore the , acts . and the multitude , acts . did present the two elect apostles , and the seven deacons by some select persons , and when these select persons spake , the church spake , and when one apostle prayed the whole twelve prayed ; ergo , there is a representative church which performeth church actions in the name of the church , and you will have a representative church in the new testament to be a point ( as you say a ) of judaisme ; yet here you are forced to acknowledge it , . by all good reason when christ , mat. . sayth if he refuse to heare the church , that is , the speaking and commanding church , let him be as a heathen , he must speak of a representative church ; for a collective body of all believers even women and children cannot command , nor soeak in the church , and it were confusion that women and children should bind and loose on earth as christ doth in heaven , and when paul sayth that the convened church , cor. . should cast out the incestuous person , he meaneth not that they should all judge him by the power and authority of christ , and the pastorall spirit of paul ; therefore your doctrine is false , that as many are judges in the judiciall acts of excommunication , as did not mourn for the sin , as were saints by calling , and to whom paul writeth , cor. . and as met together for the publick worship , for it is as great confusion for women and children who are true parts of the church to be iudges , cloathed with christs authority , and pauls ministeriall spirit , as for women to speak , or for twelve apostles to pray all at once vocally in the church ; and the whole church is said , acts . . to send messengers , and canons to antioch to be observed , and yet that whole church are but , in the act of governing and decerning , and judiciall passing of these acts , only apostles and elders , acts . . v. . act . : act. . . ( ergo ) it followeth not that we exclude women and children from being parts of the church , or that all are excluded except elders ; all are parts of the mysticall , and redeemed church ; officers are only the ministeriall church , and mat. . christ speaketh only of a ministeriall church in the judiciall act of excommunication ; though if you speak of excommunication in all the acts of it , we doe not exclude the whole multitude , mat. . nor cor. . from a popular consenting to the sentence , and a popular execution of the sentence of excommunication and therefore though the whole church convene , yet the whole church conveneth not with pauls ministeriall spirit to excommunicate judicially ; either must our brethren here acknowledge a synocdoche , as well as we , yea and a representative and select church in the judiciall act of excommunication , else they must say , that women and children , ex officio , by a ministeriall spirit doe judge and so speake in the church , for he who judgeth ex officio , in the church , may and must speake and excommunicate in the church ex officio : but more of this hereafter . chap. . sect . . quest . . whether or no is there a necessity of the personall presence of the whole church in all the acts of church-censures ? the author a giveth us ground for this question , whiles as he holdeth the company of believers cloathed with the whole power of the keys , and these meeting all of them , even the whole church to be the only visible instituted church . and b ainsworth sayth , with what comfort of heart can the people now excommunicate him , if they have not heard the proceedings against him ? let wise men iudge , if this be not spirituall tyranny , that elders would bring upon the conscience of men ? also it would seem● if the people be to execute the sentence of excommunication , that they cannot in faith repute the excommunicated man , as a heathen and a publican , and eschew his company , except they be assured in conscience , that he is lawfully cast out : now how shall they have this assurance ? the elders say , he is lawfully cast out , and the cast out man sayth , no , but he is wronged ; therefore it would seem that all the people must be personally present to heare that the processe be lawfully deduced against him , else they punish , upon a blind faith , now the like question is , if souldiers can make war , if they be not present at the counsell of war to know the just reasons of war , which the prince and states doe keepe up to themselves , upon grave considerations . and the same is the question , if the lictor and executioner of the judges sentence be obliged in conscience to know , if the judge have proceeded orderly and justly , or if he upon the testimony of the judge , may execute the sentence of death . . distinction , there be oddes betwixt a free willing people executing the sentence of the church , and meere executioners and lictors . . dist. there is a doubting of conscience speculative , through ignorance of some circumstance of the fact ; and a doubt of conscience practicall through ignorance of something , which one is obliged to know , and so there is also a speculative and a practicall certainty of a thing . . dist. there is one certaeinty required in questione juris , in a question of law , and another in questione facti , in question of fact . . dist. there is , and may be an ignorance invincible which a man cannot help , in a question of fact ; but papists and schoole-men erre , who maintaine an invincible ignorance in questione juris , in a question of law , and in this they lay imperfection on gods word . . dist. there is a morall diligence given for knowledge of a thing which sufficeth to make the ignorance excusable , and there is a morall diligence not sufficient . . dist. there is a sentence manifestly unjust as the condemning of christ by witnesses , belying one another , and a sentence doubtsomely false . . conclu . the members of the visible church are not meere lictors and executioners of the sentences of the elder-ship , . because they are to observe , warne , watch over the manners of their fellow members and to teach , exhort , and admonish one another ; and are guilty , if they be deficient in that , . because by the law of charity , as they are brethren under one head christ , they are to warne and admonish their rulers . and by the same reasons the people of the jewes were not meere executioners , though they were to stone the condemned malefactors , yet were they not judges as ainsworth sayth . it is true levit. . . they were to kill him who offered his seed to moloch ; but the precept is given first to moses the supreme magistrate , the accused for innocent blood stood before the children of israel , num. . . but their gnedah signifieth the princes , i●s . . . the slayer shall declare his cause before the elders of that city , sam. . . there be tribes who are feeding or governing tribes , or chron. . . judges : there is no reason to understand by the children of israel or the congregation , only the common people , when the word doth include a congregation of princes , so num. . . the levites are the children of israels shake-offering a ainsworth saith the people are put for the princes , the sins of unjust judges are peoples sinnes , not because they judicially exercise unjust acts , for they should not judge at all , but because they mourne not for the publick sins of judges , eze. . and because the people love to have it so , jer. . . . concl. when the sentence of the judge is manifestly unjust , the executioners and lictors are not to execute it ; for doeg the edomite sinned in killing the lords priests at the command of saul , and the footmen of saul did religiously refuse that service , sam. . . the souldiers who crucified christ , not only as men , but as licto●s , sinned against a principle of the gospel which they were obliged to believe ( maries sonne is the true messiah ) nor are we to joyne with a church excommunicating a man , because he confessed christ iob. . nor need we consent to these , that the senate of venice is excommunicated by paul the fift an. . and henricus borbonius king of navarre by sixtus . and elizabeth of england by pius . and henry the . by gregory . or hilderland , and martin luther by leo the . an. . the pope is not the catholick church , as many learned papists , especially , the parisian theologues teach . . concl there is not required the like certainty of conscience practicall in a question of fact , that is required in a question of law. . because in a question of law all ignorance is morall and culpably , evill to any who undertaketh actions upon conscience of obedience to others ; for to all within the visible church the word of god is exactly perfect , for faith and manners ; and every on is obliged to know all conclusions of law that are determinable by gods word . . every one in his actions is to do● out of a plerophorie , and a full perswasion of heart , that what he doth , pleaseth god , rom. . . i know and am perswaded by the lord jesus , that nothing is uncleane of it selfe . . we are to doe nothing but what is lawfull , and what in our consciences we are perswaded is lawfull , and are to know what is sinne , and what is no sin . all souldiers in war , and lictors , and these who execute the sentence of excommunication , are to know , what are the just causes of war , and what crimes by gods law deserve death , and what not , as what homicide , sorcery , parricide , incest , and the like sinnes deserve by gods law , and what not : because every one is obliged to know morally , what concerneth his conscience that he be not guilty before god ; the executioner who beheaded iohn baptist sinned , because he was obliged to know this ( a prophet who rebuketh incest in a king , ought not to be put to death therefore ) it was unlawfull for the men of iudah to come and make war with ieroboam and the ten tribes , because god forbade that war , ki. . , . . concl. it is not enough that some say , if the question be negatively just , then souldiers and executioners , and people may execute the sentence , that is , if they see no unlawfulnesse in the fact , i meane unlaw fulnesse in materiâ juris , in a matter of law ; hence some say , subjects and common souldiers not admitted to the secrets of the councell of war , may fight lawfully , when there is this negative justice in the war ; but forraine souldiers who are conduced , may not doe so a for the law sayth he is not free of a fault who intermedleth with matters which belonge not to him , to the hurt of others ; so teacheth b suarez c d. bannes d andr. duvallius , yet the command of the prince can remove no doubt of conscience , also that the cause of the war in the matter of law , so far as it is agreeable to gods word is not manifest to executioners , is there culpable ignorance no lesse then the ignorance of a sentence manifestly unjust , ergo , the practise of these who execute a sentence negatively only just , is not lawfull , i prove the antecedent , beacuse the practicall ignorance of what we doe which is not warranted by gods word is alwayes culpable , whether the cause be cleare or darke : for no obscurity of gods law doth excuse our ignorant practise , when the word of god can sufficienty resolve us . . it is not enough that our morall actions in their lawfulnes be just negatively ; because actions morall which are beside the word of god ( praeter dei verbum ) to us , who hold gods word perfect in faith and manners , are also , contra dei verbum , against the word of god , and so unlawfull . . because actions morall having no warrant but the sole will and commandement of superiors , are undertaken upon the sole faith : that what superiors command , if it seeme not to us unjust , though it be in it selfe unjust , may lawfully be done . now we condemne this in schoolemen and popish casuistes , that the commandement of superiors ( as sayth gregor . de valent. bannes , suarez , silvester , navarre ) may take away and remove all doubting of conscience , and make the action lawfull . whereas a navarre , b corduba c sylvester d adrian , hold that an action done without a due practicall certainty is unlawfull . if he shoud diligently ( e sayth suarez ) search for the truth , and cannot find it , yet the doubter may practise , so he practically perswade himselse , he doth it out of a good mind ; and whereas the jesuite sayth , that it is his negligence in not seeking the truth , he answereth , his negligence which is by past , cannot have influence in his present action , to make it unlawfull , because it is past and gone . but i answer , it is physically past , but it is morally present , to infect the action as habituall ignorance , maketh the acts of unbeliefe morally worse or ill . and to these we may adde , that he who doth with such a doubt , . he sinneth , because he doth not in faith f . he exposeth himselfe to the hazard of finning , and of joyning with an unjust sentence . . it is the corrupt doctrine of papists who muzzle up the people in ignorance , and discharge them to reade gods word , and so maintaine ( because of the obscurity and imperfection of gods word which is not able to determine all questions ) that there is an ignorance of many lawfull duties which is invincible , and to be excused , as no wayes sinfull , and which vitiateth not our morall actions , so a thomas b bonaventura , c richard d gabriel e occam f antoninus g adrianus h almaine i suarez , though occam and almain may be expounded favourably . . concl. souldiers , lictors , servants , people under the eldership , are not meere instruments moved only by superiors , as schoolemen say . . because they are morall agents , and are no lesse to obey in faith , then superiors are to command in faith and they are to obey their superiours only in the lord. . they are to give all diligence that they be not accessary to unjust sentences , lest they partake of other mens sinnes . what k aquinas l greg. de valent m and and. duvallius saith against this , is not to be stood upon . . concl. but in questione facti , in matters of fact , there is not required that certainty of conscience . but that we may more clearely understand the conclusion , a question of fact is taken three wayes . . for a fact expressely set down in gods word , as that moses led the people through the wildernesse , that cain slew his brother ab●l , these are questions de facto , not questiones facti , and must be believed as n almaine and o occam say well , with that same certainty by which we believe gods word . . a question of fact is taken for a question , the subject whereof is a matter of fact , but the attribute is a matter of law , as ( if christ in saying he was the son of god did blasphem ) if the lords priests in giving david shew-bread , did commit treason against king saul ) there is some question there made circa factum , about the fact , but it is formally a question of law. for these questions may be cleared by gods word , and the ignorance of any questions which may be cleared by gods word , is vincible , and culpable , for the law sayth a the ignorance of these things which we are obliged to know is culpable , and excuseth not . but thirdly a question of fact is properly a question ( whether this corinthian committed incest or no ) ( whether tittrs committed murther , or no ) and in this there is sometimes invincible ignorance , when all diligence morally possible is given , to come to the knowledge of the fact . now we know here the question of law must be proved by the law , all are obliged in concience to know what sinnes deserve death and excommunication . but whether this man iohn , anna , marie hath committed such sins , is a question of fact and cannot be proved by the law , or the word of god , for a the l●● is not anent singulars or particulars , this is proved by sense and the testimonie of witnesses ; and therefore the certainty practicall of conscience here is humane and failible , not divine and infallible . now though souldiers , lictors , or people joyne to the execution of a sentence , and have their doubtings anent the fidelity of the witnesses , yet when all diligence morally possible is given to try the matter , they may well be said to doe in faith , though they have not certainty of faith concerning the fact , , because there cannot be certainty of divine faith in facts ; mens confession , sense , the testimony of witnesses cannot breed divine faith : yea here the judge himselfe may condemne the innocent , and yet the sentence of the judge may be most just because the witnesses are lyers , and the judge giveth out that sentence in faith , because gods word hath commanded him to proceed , secundum allegata & probata , he must give sentence under b two or three witnesses ; yea , though the judge saw , with his eyes , the guilty commit the fact , yet he cannot by gods law condemne him , but upon the testimony of witnesses ▪ for the wise lord seeth what confusion and tyranny should follow , if one might be both index , actor , & t●stis , the iudge , the accuser , and the witnesse . and when the judge giveth out a sentence to absolve the guilty and condemne the innocent , his sentence is judicially and formally just , and materially and by accident and contrary to his intention only unjust , if the judge in that case should say ( as master weemes observeth well ) c such a proposition is true when he knoweth it to be false , and being posed and urged in conscience , is this an innocent man or no ? it he should answer and say he is not , he should then answer contrary to his knowledge ? but as a judge he must answer , he is not innocent , because witnesses being with all possible diligence examined , have condemned him , and it is no inconvenience here to say , that the judge hath one conscience as a man , and another contrary conscience as a judge , in the question of fact ; for god hath tyed his conscience , as a judge , to the fidelity of witnesses , known not to be false . i desire the reader to see anent this more in a bonaventura b richardus c occam d antoninus e adrian , f and our countreyman iohn weemes and g henricus . now because souldiers , lictors , and people are not judges , if they know the fact in law deserveth such and such punishments , where the sentence is not manifestly false and unjust , but in the matter of law just , though erroneous in the matter of fact , all possible dilligence being used by the judges , they are to execute that sentence upon the testimony of the judges , though they be not personally present at the proceedings of the judges and eldership which may be proved many wayes . . by the confession of our brethren , i● any of the congregation be absent by sicknesse , child-birth paine , trading over sea , imprisonment , the congregation doth justly put away from amongst them the incestuous corinthian , and they who are absent are to repute the party excommunicate , as a heathen ; as their own practise is at censures in the week-day , the largest halfe of the congregation is absent , yet the absent upon the testimony of the church hold valid what is done by the church . . other sister churches who ought not to be present at church-censures , as our brethren teach , are to repute the excommunicate cast out by a sister church-independent ( as they say ) as an heathen , because being bound in heaven : here , is he not bound in a church visible , one mile distant from the church excommunicating ? yet this is no tyranny of conscience . . women are to execute the sentence and to eschew the company of the party excommunicated , yet are they not to be present ●s judges to n●●rp authority over the men . this h robinson granteth . . this should evert all judicatories of peace and war , so many thousands , acts . could not be present at every act of censure and that dayly , nor are acts o● discipline necessarily tied to the lords-day they are ( i grant ) acts of divine worship , but the whole multitude of women and children are deprived of the liberty that god hath given them for six dayes to the works of their calling , if they must be personally present , at all the acts of discipline , to cognosce of all scandals , and to here and receive testimonies against elders under two or three witnesses , which is the office of timothy i this way the overseeing of the manners of the people , which also our brethren laye upon the whole people , taketh up the great part of the pastors office , and the whole office of ruling elders . and if we lay upon the people the worke and all the acts of the office , how can we not lay upon them the office it selfe ? . all israel gathered to war , from dan to beersheba , could not , by vertue of duty and obligation , be present personally at the determination of lawfull war : nay if they were all present , as judges , as c mr. ainsworth would have them , there be no governors and feeders in israel , but all the governed are feeders , and so no magistrate and ruler , as anabaptists teach here . . it were not lawfull for one to be king over more people , then he could in his own personall presence judge , contrary to gods word , that teacheth us to obey these who are sent by the supreme magistrate , as we obey the king , pet. . . . ergo , these who are sent by him are lawfull judges , and yet the king judgeth by them , and in them . . this error is founded upon a worse error , to wit , that the supreme magistrate had no power of life and death in israel , without consent of the people , but certainly there are as specious and plausible reasons , if not more specious , for the peoples government in all civill matters , then there can be for their church-power of judging in the church-matters , and government therof . yet there is no ground for it . . because the rulers only could not be charged , to execute judgement in the morning , to deliver the oppressed , to execute judgement for the fatherlesse and the vviddow , nor can there be a promise made to establish , the kings throne for obeying that commandement , as ( a ) gods word teacheth ; if the people have as great , yea , greater power in judging , then the rulers have by this our brethrens argument . they say all the believers at corinth . cor. . could not be commanded to cast out the incestuous person , nor could they all be taxed for omitting that duty , if they had not power to excommunicate . . neither can the spirit of god complaint that the judges builded zion with blood , and the heads of the house of jacob , and princes of the house of israel did abhor judgement and pervert equity as the prophets say , e nor could they be condemned as roaring lyons and evening wolves , as the prophet sayth : for the judge● might well be faultlesse , when the poore were crushed in the gate , and judgement turned into gall and wormewood , because they cannot helpe the matter , the people are the greatest part in caring matters in judgement . . we see f davids practise in condemning the amalckite out of his own confession , not asking the peoples consent , and in condemning to death g baanah and rehab , for killing ishbosheth . solomon gave sentence h against adoniiah , ioab , shimei , without consent of the people , david pardoned shimei contrary to the counsell of zerviahs sons . . if from the peoples witnessing and hearing of judgement in the gate , we conclude the people were judges , with the rulers , there was never a time , when there was no king in israel , and no iudge to put evill doers to shame , but every man did what seemed good in his own eys , contrary to scripture i because all are a generation of kings and princes no lesse then the ruler himselfe , as anabaptists teach . by the doctrine of our brethren i deny not but he that gathered stickes on the sabbath was brought , num. . . to moses and to aaron and to all the congregation , but the congregation signifieth not the common multitude . for . moses received the sentence from god and pronounced it , and the congregation stoned him to death , and numb . . . the daughters of zelophehad stood before moses , eleazar , and before the princes as iudges , and before all the congregation , as witnesses , not as judges : but v. . . moses gave out the judiciall sentence , from the lords mouth . and king. . . naboth stood in presence of the people to be judged , but the nobles and princes were his judges , because v. . iezabel wrote to the nobles and princes that v. . they should carry out naboth and stone him , to wit , judicially , and v. . the nobles and princes did as iezabel had sent unto them . and ieremiah cap. . pleaded his cause before the princes and people , for v. . the princes . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 set down ( judicially ) in the entry of the new gate of the lords house , nothing can be gathered from the place to prove that the people judged , but because ieremiah spake to the princes and the people who vers . : were in a fury and rage against ieremiah , if ahikam had not saved him from their violence . chap. . sect . . quest . . whether there be no nationall or provinciall church under the new testament , but only a parishionall congregation meeting every lords day , in one place for the worship of god ? the author , in this first proposition denieth that there is any nationall or provinciall church , at all , under the new testament , for clearing of the question observe these . . dist. vve deny that there is any diocescan , provinciall or nationall church under the care of one diocesan or nationall prelate or bishop , but hence it followeth not , there is no visible instituted church now , but only a particular congregation . . dist. vve deny any nationall typicall church , where a whole nation is tyed to one publick worship , in one place , as sacrificing in the temple . . dist. vve deny not but the most usuall acception of a church , or visible meeting is given , as the a refutator of tylenus sayth , to a convention of people meeting ordinarily to heare the word and adminstrate the sacraments b stephanus deriveth it from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and c cyrillus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as d causabon observeth ; so these who meete at one sermon are called ecclesia , a church , and it is called ecclesia & concio , sayth the refutator of tilen , e but this hindreth not the union of more particular congregations , in their principall members for church-government , to be the meeting or church representative of these many united congregations . . dist. a parish-church materiall , is a church within such locall bounds , the members whereof dwell contiguously togegether , one bordering on the other , our brethren , meane not of such a church ; for as f pa●● baynes sayth well this god instituted not , because a company of papists and protestants may thus dwell together , as in a parish , and yet they axe of contrary churches , a parish-church formally is a multitude who meete in manner or forme of a parish , as if they dwelt neere together in a place ordinarily , to worship god , as the 〈◊〉 of those who came together to celebrate the lords supper , is called the church , cor. . . for first of all when ye come together in the church , i heare that there are divisions amongst you . 〈◊〉 what ? have ye not houses to eat and drink in ? or despise ye the church of god ? . concl. if we shall evince a church-visible in the now testament which is not a parishionall church , we evince this to be false which is maintained by our brothren , that there is no visible instituted church in the new testament save onely a parishionall church , or a single independent congregation . but this church we conceive to have been no parishionall church . . because these who met dayly and continued with one accord in the temple , and breaking bread from house to house , that is , administrating the sacraments together as our brethren say , were a visible church . but these being first an hundred and twenty , as acts . and then three thousand added to them , acts . . could not make all one single independent congregation , whereof all the members had voyce in actuall government ▪ ergo , they were a visible instituted church , and yet not a parishionall church . the proposition is cleare , the church of ierusalem was one visible church , and did exercise together a visible act of government , in sending messengers to 〈◊〉 acts . . then pleased it the apostles and elders and the whole church ( our brethren say , the whole collective church men , women , and children at ierusalem ) to send men of their own company to antioch . and wrote letters , and some decrees and commandements to be observed . now the many thousands of the church of ierusalem , by no possibility could meete a● one parish , in one materiall house to administrate the lords supper : farre lesse could they be , as is said ; acts . . all continuing stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and followship ( our brethren say in p●rishionall or congregationall fellowship ) and in breaking of bread and prayer , nor could they dayly continue in the temple and breake bread from house to house , being all one church , or a fixed parishionall meeting in one materiall house . now it is cleare , they were 〈◊〉 even after they exceeded many thousands in number , in one parishionall and congregationall government , as our brethren would prove from acts , , , , . and acts . , . else how could they have all their goods common , if there be not one visible government amongst them ? but this government could not be of one single congregation ; for all who sold their goods , and had all things common , could not meete to give voyces in discipline , a judicatory of so many thousand judges were impossible and ridiculous . . paul writeth to the galatians , where there were many parish , churches , gal. . . as our brethren teach , yet doth he write to them , as he doth to the corinthians : where our brethren will have one parish - church , and writeth to them of uniformity of visible government , that they meete not together to keepe dayes , sabbaths , and yeers gal. . . as the iewes did , that they keep not iewish and ceremoniall meetings , and conventions , gal. . . these churches are called one lumpe in danger to be leavened , as corinth is a parishionall lumpe in hazard to be leavened , as our brethren teach . now how could paul will them that the whole lump of all the churches and congregations in galatia , be not leavened , except he lay down a ground , that they were with united authority to joyne in one visible government , against the false teachers : suppose there were twenty sundry kings in brittaine , and twenty kingdoms , could our friends over sea write to us as to one nationall lump , to beware of the spanish faction , except they laid down this ground , that all the twenty little kingdomes , had some visible union in government , and might with joynt authority of all the twenty kingdomes concurre to resist the common enemie ? here that godly and learned divine mr. baynes sayth , communion in government is not enough to make them one church , this ( sayth he ) a maketh them rather one in tertio quodam separabili ( in a third thing which may be separated ) then one church ; government being a thing that commeth to a church now constituted , and may be absent , the church remaning a church , i answer this is a good reason against the prelates diocese●n church , which , as baynes sayth well , is such a frame in which many churches are united with one head - church ( under one lord prelate , common pastor to all the pastors and particular congregations of the diocese ) as part aking of holy things , or at least in that power of government , which is in the chiefe , church , for all the others within such a circuit . now the prel●tes frame of a properly so called church , under one pastor being a creature with a hundred heads , having church and pastorall care of a hundred little congregations and churches , is a dreame , for we know no such church fed by a prelate , nor no such prelaticall argos to oversee so many flocks ; nor doe we contend that the many congregations united in a presbyteriall government , doe make a mysticall visible church meeting for all the ordinances of god. but union of many congregations in a visible government is enough to make all these united churches one visible , ministeriall and governing church who may meete , not in one collective body , for the worship of god ; yet in one representative body , for government : though worship may be in such a convened church also , as we shall heare . the name of the church i thinke is given to such a meeting , mat. . . acts . . though more usually in scripture the church is a fixed congregation , convened for gods worship : now government is an accident separable , and may goe and come to a mysticall church ; but i thinke it is not so to a ministeriall governing church . so the church of ephesus is called a church in the singular number , rev. . . and all the churches of asia , rev. . . but seven churches ; and christ directeth seven epistles to these seven , and writeth to ephesus as to a church having one government , v. . thou hast tryed them which say they are apostles and are not , and hast found them lyers . this was ecclesiasticall tryall by church-discipline , yet ephesus contained more particular congregations then one . . because christ speaking to ephesus only , sayth , v. . he that hath an ear● to heare let him heare what the spirit sayth unto the churches , in the plurall number . because there were a good number of preaching elders in ephesus , acts . . . . and it is incongruous to gods dispensation to send a multiude of pastors , to over see ordinarily one single and independent congregation . . this i have proved from the huge multitudes converted to the faith in ephesus , so huge and populous a city where many iewes and greeks dw●l● , and where the word of god grew so migh●●ly , acts . , , , . and christ writeth to every one of the seven churches as to one , and yet exhorteth seven times in every epistle , that churches in the plurall number heare what the spirit sayth . now as our brethren prove that the churches of galatia , so called in the plurall number , were many particular churches , so doe we borrow this argument , to prove that every one of the seven churches , who are seven times called churche in the plurall number , contained many congregations under them , yet doth . christ write to every one of the seven , as having one visible government . . concl. a nationall typicall church● was the church of the iewes , we deny . but a church nationall or provinciall of cities , provinces , and kingdomes , having one common government , we thinke cannot be denyed : so paul baynes citeth for this , pet. . . pet. . . though we take not the word church for a my sticall body , but for a ministeriall company . but acts . matthias was elected an apostle by the church , as our brethren confesse , but not by a particular congregation who met every lords-day , and in ordinary to partake of all the holy things of god , the word and sacraments . . here were the apostles , whose parish - church was the whole world , mat. . . goe teach all nations . in this church were the brethren of christ from galilee , acts . . and some from jerusalem v. . . no particular church had power ecclesiasticall , as this church had power to choose an apostle , who was to be a pastor over the churches of the whole world , as our brethren teach , so * mr. paget sayth well ; these disciples who waited upon christ , such as barsabas and matthias , were no members of the church of jerusalem , and so what pow●r had a particular church to dispose of them , who were no members of their church ? . that which concerneth all , must be done by all , and that which concerneth the feeding and governing of the church of the whole world , must be done by these who represent the church of the whole world ; but that matthias should be chosen , and ordained an apostle to teach to the whole world , concerned all the churches , and not one particular church 〈◊〉 , therefore there was here either no church ( which no man dare say ) for ●here is here a company of believers where there is preaching and church ▪ government , v. . . . or then there was here a congregation which is against sense and scripture ; or there is a church provinciall , naturall , or oecumenick ; call it as you please , it is a visible church instituted in the new testament , after the ascension of christ , and not a parishionall church . some answer , this was extraordinary and meerely apostolick , that an apostle should be ordained , and is no warrant for a nationall church now , when the churches of christ are constituted . but i answer , this distinction of ordinary and extraordinary is wearied and worne to death with two much employment . . beza , calvin , piscator , tilenus , whittaker , chamier , pareus , bucanus , professors of leyden , walaeus , vvillet , p. martyr , ursinus , &c. and all our divines , yea a lorinus the j●suite , b cajetan , alledge this place with good reason to prove , that the ordination and election of pastors belongeth to the whole church , and not to one man , peter , or any pope . yea c robinson and all our brethren , use this place , to prove , that the church to the second comming of christ hath power to ordaine , and exanthorate and censure her officers . . we desire a ground for this , that the ecclesiasticall power of the church which is ordinary and perpetuall to christs second comming , should joyne as a coll●terall cause in ordination and election of an apostle ▪ which ordination is extraordinary , temporary & apostolick ; see for this d pet. martyr e vvhittaker f bilson g chamier , h pareus , i beza . k calvin , l harmonie of the confessions m iunius , n cartwright o fulk p ursinus q zwinglius r munsterus , and s theodoret ▪ would have us to rest upon apostolick demonstrations like this . and t irenaeus speaketh against rectifiers of the apostles in this u cyprian sayth the like , acts . a church of hebrewes and graecians , together with the twelve apostles is not a particular ordinary congregation , and a governing church choosing deacons , therefore they are a nationall church ; though the first ordination of deacons be meerely apostolick , and immediately from iesus christ , yet the ordination of these seven persons was a worke of the churches power of the keys . now let our brethren speake , if this was a congregationall church , that meeteth ordinarily to the word and sacraments , such as they say the church of corinth was , cor. ● . . so say i of the church , acts . . called apostles , elders and brethren and the whole church , this could not be a particular church ; for no particular congregation hath ecclesiasticall power to prescribe decrees , and canons to all the churches of the gentiles , and that this was done by an ordinary ecclesiastick power that remaineth perpetually in a church , such as this was , is cleare , because our brethren prove that the whole multitude spake in this church from vers . . then all the multitude kept silence , and therefore the multitude ( say our brethren ) spake from v. . all the church voyced in these decrees and canons , say they . . sister churchers keepe a visible church-communion together . . they heare the word , and partake of the seales of the covenant , occasionally one with another . . they eschew the same excommunicated heretick , as a common church-enemy to all . . they exhort , rebuke comfort , and edifie one another , as members of one body visible . . if one sister church fall away , they are to labour to gaine her , and if she will not be gained , as your author sayth a they tell it to many sister churches , if shee refilse to heare them . they forsake communion with her . . here is a visible body of christ , and his spouse , having right to the keyes , word and seales of grace . . here is a visible body exercising visible acts of church-fellowship one toward another . hence here a visible provinciall , and nationall church exercising the specifick acts of a church . ergo , here is a provinciall and nationall church . for to whom that agreeth which essentially constituteth a church visible , that must be a visible church . you will say , they are not a visible church because they cannot , and doe not ordinarily all meete in one materiall house , to heare one and the same word of god , and to partake of the same seales of the covenant joyntly : but i answer . this is a begging of the question . . they performe other specifick acts of a visible church , then to meete ordinarily , to partake joyntly , and at once , of the same ordinances . . if this be a good reason that they cannot be a nationall church , because they meete not all ordinarily to heare the some word , and to partake of the same ordinances , then a locall and visible and ordinary union joyntly in the same worship , is the specifick essence of a visible church ; but then there was no visible nationall churches in iudea , for it was impossible that they could all meete in one materiall house , to partake of the same worship . . these who for sicknes and necessary avocations of their calling , as navigation , traffiquing and the like , cannot ordinarly meet with the congregation to partake joyntly with them of these same ordinances , loose all membership of the visible church , which is absurd ; for they are cast out for no fault . . this is not essentiall to a nationall church , that they should ordinarily all joyntly meet for the same worship , but that they be united in one ministeriall government , and meet in their chiefe members , and therefore our brethren use an argument , à specie ad gen●s negativè ; a provinciall or nationall company of believers cannot performe the acts of a particular visible church ; ergo , such a company is not a visible church , just as if i would reason thus : a horse cannot laugh ; ergo , he is not a living creature , or it is an argument à negatione unius speciei , ad negationem alterius , such a company is not such a congregationall church , ergo , it is no visible church at all ; an ape is not a reasonable creature . ergo , it is not an ape . . conclu . there ought to be a fellowship of church communion amongst all the visible churches on earth ; ergo de jure and by christ his institution there is an universall or catholick visible church . i prove the antecedent . . because there ought to be mutuall fellowship of visible church-duties , as where there is one internall fellowship , because eph. . . we are one body , one spirit , even as we are called in one hope of our calling , v. . one lord , on father , one baptisme , v. . one god , and father of all . there also should there be externall fellowship , and church - fellowship , of exhorting , rebuking , comforting , and church-praying , and church-praising , in the behalfe of all the visible churches on earth , even for those , whose faces we never saw , coloss. . . and when one nationall church falleth away , the visible churches of the christian world are obliged to rebuke , and to labour to gaine such a church , and if she will not be gained , to renounce all the foresaid communion with such an obstinate nation . . as the apostles had one publicke care of all the churches , and accordingly kept visible fellowship , as they had occasion to preach , write to them , pray , and praise god for them , so this care as apostolick i grant is gone and dead with the apostles ; but the pastorall and church-care , and consequently acts of externall fellowship are not dead with the apostles , but are left in the church of christ , for what church-communion of visible fellowship members of one particular congregation keepe one with another , that same by due proportion , ought nationall churches to keepe amongst themselves . . this is cleare act. . where particular churches with the apostles did meete , and take care to provide a pastor and an apostle , matthias , for the whole christian church , and why ●ut particular churches , are hereby taught to confer all church-authority that god hath given them , for the rest of the visible churches ; and the churches conuened in their speciall members , acts . . extended their church-care , in a church-communion of ecclesiastick canons to all the visible churches of the jewes and gentiles . hence oecumenick and generall councells should be jure divino , to the second comming of christ ; neither need we stand much on this that our brethren say , that one catholick visible church is a night dreame , because no church is visible save only a particular congregation , the externall communion whereof in meeting in one materiall house ordinarily , and partaking of the same word and sacraments , doth incurre in our senses , whereas a church communion and visible fellowship with the whole christian churches on earth is impossible , and no wayes visible . but i answer , if such a part of the sea , the brittish sea be visible , then are all the seas on earth visible also , though they cannot all come in one mans senses at one and the same time ; so if this church particular be visible , then all the churches also in their kind are visible . . there be acts of church-communion externall with all the visible churches on earth , ergo , the whole catholick church according to these acts is visible . i prove the antecedent , we pray in a church-way publickly for all the visible churches on earth , we praise church-wayes publickly for them , we fast and are humbled church-wayes before god when they are in trouble , and so ought they to doe with us ; we by preaching , writing , and synodicall constitutions proclaime the common enemie of all the churches to be the antichrist , his doctrine and the doctrine of that body whereof he is head to be false and hereticall , by writings we call all the people of god to come out of bab●l , and we renounce externall communion with rome , in doctrine , discipline , ceremonies : and rites , all which are church-acts of externall communion with the reformed catholick visible churches , neither to make a church visible to us , is it requisi●e that we should see the faces of all the members of the catholick visible church , and be in one materiall church with them at once , partaking of the same visible worship : yea , so the church of iudea should not be one visible church , which our brethren must deny , for they had one priest hood , on temple , one covenant of god visibly professed by all ; yet could they not all meete in one materiall temple to partake together at once of all gods o dinance● . for i partake in externall worship with these of new england , who are baptised according to christs institution , without the signe of the crosse , though i never saw their faces . hence all may see that oecumenick councel's are de jure and christs lawfull ordinances , though de facto they be not , through the corruption of our nature ; yet such a visible church-fellowship in externall church-communion is kept in the whole catholics church visible , as may be had , considering the perversity of men , and the malice of satan . it is constantly denied by our brethren , that the church of the iewes was a congregationall church , and of that frame and institution with the christian church : but that it was peculiar and meerely in laicall to be a nationall church ; yet let me have liberty to offer a necessary distinction here . . a nationall church is either when a whole nation , and all the congregations and synogogues thereof are tied by divine precept , to some publique acts of typicall worship , in one place , which the lord hath chosen ; so all israel were to sacrifice at jerusalem onely , and the priests were to officiate in that kind , there onely , and they to pray toward the temple , or in the temple , and they to prese●t the male children there , as holy to the lord , luke . &c. this way indeed the church of the jewes , in a peculiar manner , was a nationall church ; and thus farre our brethrens arguments doe well conclude , that the jewish church was nationall in a peculiar manner proper to that church onely . but a nationall church is taken in another sense now , for a people to whom the lord hath revealed his statutes and his testimonies , whereas he hath not d alt so with every nation , psal. . , . which church is also made up of many congregations and synagogues , having one worship and government that doth morally concerne them all . thus the iewish church was once nationall , and that for a time ; god chose them of his free grace , to be a people to himselfe , deut. . . and deut. . . when the most high divided to the nations their inheritance . iacob was the lot of his inheritance , amos . . you onely have i chosen of all the families of the earth . but the jewish church was in this sence but nationall for a time ; now hath god ( act. . v. . ) also granted to the gentiles repentance unto life , and called the gentiles , and made them a nationall church , hos. . . pet. . , . esay . , , . that is , he hath revealed his testimonies to england , to scotland , and he hath not done so to every nation . so if a false teacher should goe through israel and call himselfe the power of god , as simon magus did . all the congreations and synagogues in israel might joyne together to condemne him ; if there were such a thing as an arke in scotland , if it were taken captive as the prelates kept the gospell in bonds , it were a morall dutie to all the congregations , to convene in their principall rulers and pastors to bring againe the arke of god , and by the power of discipline to set it free ; and if the whole land were involved in a nationall apostacie , they are to meet in their principall members , and this is morall to scotland , as to israel by ordinances of the church to renew a covenant with god , that his wrath may be turned off the land. in this sence , we see it never proved , that it was peculiar to israel , onely to be a nationall church . nay , i affirme , that the jewes had their congregationall churches , as we have . for that is a congregationall church which meeteth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that same place , for doctrine and discipline . but the jewes meet every sabbath in their synagogues , for teaching the people , gods law , and for discipline . ergo , the people of the jewes had their congregationall churches , as we have . the major proposition is the doctrine of our brethren , except they say , ( as its like they must ) that except they meet to pa●take of all the ordinances of god , they are not a congregationall church . yet truely this is but a knot in a rush , for cor. meeting for prophecying onely , is a church convention ; and the forbidding of women to teach in the church , is an ordering of a congregationall worship ; and the meeting of the church for baptising of infants , is in the mind of our brethren the formall meeting of a congregationall church , though they should not celebrate the lords supper . . what ecclesiasticall meetings can the meeting of gods people be , in the synagogues of god , as they are called ▪ psal. . for hearing the word , and for exercise of discipline , if not the church meeting in a congregation ? i prove the assumption by parts , and first i take it to be undeniable , that they did meet for doctrine , act. . . for moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him , being read in the synag●g●e every sabbath day . and ps. . , . these two are joyntly complained of , as a great desolation in the church , the burning of gods synagogues in the land. and v. . that there are no prophets which know how long . and math. . . christ went about all cities and villages teaching in their synagogues . luke . he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day , and stood up to read , math. . . and when the sabbath day was come , he began to teach in the synagogue ; and many hearing him were astonished . luke . . and it came to passe , another sabbath day , he entered into the synagogue and taught . john . . i ever taught in the synagogues , and daily in the temple whither the jewes alwayes resort . math. . . and when he was come into his own● countrey , he taught them in their synagogue , in as much as they were astonished . and that there was ruling & government in the synagogue , is cleare , , by their rulers of the synagogue , act. . . act. . . . luke . . marke . . . and if this ruler had beene any save a moderator , if he had beene an unlawfull officer , christ would not have acknowledged him , nor would paul , at the desire of the rulers of the synagogue have preached , as he doth , acts . , . . also , if there was teaching cisputing , concerning the law in the synagogue , there behooved to be some ordering of these acts of worship ; for onely approved prophets were licensed to preach in their synagogues , to say nothing that there was beating in the synagogues , and therefore there behoved to be church discipline . hence that word of delivering up to the synagogue . luke . . . there was the censure of excommunication , and casting out of the synagogue , and a cutting off from the congregation . hence that act of casting out of the synagogue any who should confesse jesus . john . . which they executed on the blind man , john . . it is true , our brethren deny that there was any excommunication in the church of the jewes , and they alledge , that the cutting off from the people of god , was a taking away of the life by the magistrates sword ; or , ( as some other say ) gods immediate hand of judgement upon them . but . to be cut off from the congregation , or from the people of god , is never called simply off-cutting , and expounded to be destroying , as it is genes . . . but expressed by dying the death : for who will conceive that the sword of the magistrate was to cut off the male child that is not circumcised , who is said to be cut off from the people of god , gen. . . or to cut off by death the parents ? i grant the phrase signifieth bodily death . exod. . . and for this god sought to kill moses . but divines say it was excommunication , and never ruler in israel executed this sentence : not moses , nor any judge that ever we read tooke away the life of an infant for the omission of a ceremony . nor are we to thinke , that for eating leavened bread in the time of the passover , the magistrate was to take away the life , as is said . levit. . , . . ●his word , to cut off , is expounded , cor. . to put away ; which was not by death , for he willeth them , cor. . to pardon him , and confirme their love to him . . neither could paul rebuke the corinthians because gods hand had not miraculously taken him away , or because the magistrate had not taken away his life , which was not the corinthians fault . . i am perswaded , to be cast out of the synagogue , was not to be put to death , because ioh. . the blind man after he is cast out of the synagogue , jesus meeteth with him in the temple , and he believeth and confesseth christ , and christ ioh. . distingusheth them cleerely , they shall kill you , and beside that , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . they shall excommunicate you . but though it were granted , t●●t the jewish church used not excommunication had they no ecclesiasticall censures before for that ? i thinke it doth not follow ; for the excluding of the leper , that these who touched the dead were legally uncleane , and might not eate the passover , were censures , but they were not civill ; ergo , ecclesiasticall they must be , as to be excluded from the lords supper is a meer . ecclesiasticall censure in the christian church . also if pastors and preachers be complained of , that not only at ierusalem , but every where , through all the land , they strengthened not the ●● eased sheep ; they did not bind up the broken , nor bring againe the loosed , but with force and cruclty they did governe , ezek. . . and if every where , the prophets did prophecy falsely , and the priests bare rule by their meanes , and the people lov●d to have it so . jer. . . then in synagogues there was church-government , as at ●erusalem ; for where the lord rebuketh any sinne , he doth recommend the contrary duty . now prophets and priests are rebuked , tor their ruling with force and rigour every where , and not at ierusalem onely , for that they were not compassionate to carry the lambs in their bosome , as iesus christ doth , esai . . . their ill government every where must be condemned . . luk. . . christ , as his custome was , went into the synagogue on the sabbath day ; paul and barnabas were requested , to exhort in the synagogue , as the order was , that prophets at the direction of the rulers of the synagogue , if they had any word of exhortation , they should speake , and consequently their order was that every one should not speake ; ergo , they had customes and orders of church-discipline to the which christ and his apostles did submit themselves , and to tie all church-government to the temple of ierusalem were to say , god had ordained his people elsewhere to worship him publickly , but without any order , and that christ and his apostles subjected themselves to an unjust order . i further argue thus . those churches be of the same nature , frame , and essentiall constiutions , which agree in the same essentials , and diff●r only in accidents ; but such are the church of the iewes , and the christian churches ; ergo , what is the frame and essentiall consti●●tion of the one church , must be the frame and essentiall constitution of the other . ergo , &c. the major is of undeniable certainty . i prove the assumption . these which have the same faith , and the same externall profession of faith , these have the same frame and essentiall constitution , but they and we be such churches ; for we have the same covenant of grace , jer. . . jer. . . heb . , . therefore that same faith , differing only in accidents : their faith did looke to christ to be incarnate , and our faith to that same very god now manifested in the flesh . heb. . . they were saved by faith , as we are , heb. . acts . , . acts. . , , . and consequently , what visible profession of faith doth constitute the one visible church , doth constitute the other . i know , papists , arminians , socinians doe make the doctrine , and seales of the iewish and christian church much different , but against the truth of scripture . the onely answer that can be made to this , must be , that though the church of the jewes wanted not congregations , as our christian churches have , yet were they a nationall church of another essentiall , visible frame , then are the christian churches , because they had positive , typicall , and ceremoniall and carnall commandements that they should have one high priest for the whole nationall church , the christian churches have not for that , one visible monarch and pope ; they had an altar , sacrifices , and divers pollutions ceremoniall , which made persons uncapable of the passover ; but we have no such legall uncleannesse , which can make us uncapable of the seales of the new testament : and therefore it was not lawfull to separate from the jewish church , in which did sit a typicall high priest , where were sacrifices , that did adumbrate the sacrifice of our great high priest , & c. not withstanding of scandalous persons in that church ; because there was but one visible church , out of which was to come the redeemer christ , according to the flesh , but the christian churches under the new testament , be of another frame , christ not being tyed to one nation , or place , or congregation : therefore if any one congregation want the ordinances of christ , we may separate therefrom , to another mount sion , seeing there bee so many mount sions no● . answ. . if the church of the iewes was a visible church in its essentiall constitution different from our visible churches , because they were under the religions tie of so me carnall , ceremoniall , and typicall mandats and ordinances , that we are not under , then doe i inferre , that the tribe of levy was not one visible church , in the essentiall frame , with the rest of the tribes , which is absurd , for that tribe conteyning the priests and levites , was under the obligatory tie of many typicall commandements proper and peculiar to them only , as to offer sacrifices , to wash themselves , when they were to officiate , to weare linnen ephods , to beare the arke of the covenant , now it was sinne for any that were not of the sonnes of aaron , or of another tribe to performe these duties ; yet , i hope , they made but one nationall church with the rest of the tribes . secondly , i infer , that the christian church that now is , cannot be of that same essentiall frame with the apostolick churches , because the apostolick church , so long as the jewish ceremonies were indifferent , ( in statu 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) and mortall , but not mortiferae , deadly , was to practice these ceremonies , in the case of scandall , cor. . , , . and yet the christian church that now is , can in no sort practice these ceremonies : yea , i inferre that the eldership of a congregation doth not make one church of one and the same essentiall frame and constitution with the people , because the elders be under an obligatory tie to some positive divine commandements , such as are to administer the seales , baptisme and the lords supper , and yet the multitude of believeres , in that same congregation , are under no such tie ; and certainly if to be under ceremoniall and typicall ordinances doth institute the whole jewish church in another essentiall frame different from the christian churches , reason would say that then , if the members of one church be under divine positive commandements , which doth in no sort tie other members of the same church , that then there be divers memberships of different essentiall frames in one and the same church , which to me is monstrous ; for then , because a command is given to abraham to offer his sonne isaak to god , and no such command is given to sarah , in that case abraham and sarah shall not bee members of one and the same visible church . but the truth is , different positive commandments of ceremoniall and typicall ordinances put ●o new essentiall frame of a visible church upon the jewish church , which is not on the christian churches . these were onely accidentall characters and temporary cognizances to distinguish the jewish and christian churches , while as both agree in one and the same morall constitution of visible churches : for first , both had the same faith , one lord , one covenant , one iesus christ , the same seales of the covenant in substance , both were visibly to professe the same religion ; the differences of externals made not them and us different visible churches , nor can our brethren say , they made different bodies of christ , different spouses , different royall generations , as concerning church-frame . yet are wee not tied to their high priest , to their altars , sacrifices , holy dayes , sabbaths , new moones , &c. no more then any one private christian in such a congregation , or a beleeving woman is tied to preach and baptize ; and yet her pastor archippus , in that congregation , is tied both to preach and baptize . secondly , the jews were to separate from b thaven , and so are we . thirdly , they were not to joyne with idolaters in idol-worship , neither are we . whereas it is said that it was not lawfull to separate from the jewish church , because in it did sit the typicall high priest , and the messiah was to be borne in it , and because they were the onely church on earth ; but now there be many particular churches . all this is a deception , a non causi● pro causâ , for separation from that church was not forbidden for any typicall or ceremoniall reason , not a shadow of reason can be given from the word of god for this : because there can be no ceremoniall argument why there should be communion betwixt light and darknesse , or any concord betwixt christ and belial , or any comparting bètwixt the beleever and the infidell , or any agreement of the temple of god with idols , nor any reason typicall why gods people should goe to gilgal , and to bethaven , or to be joyned with idols , or why a david should sit with vaine persons , or goe in to dissemblers , or why he should offer the drinke offerings of these who hasten after a strange god , or take up their names in his mouth . this is then an unwritten tradition ; yea , if dagon had beene brought into the temple , as the assy●ian altar of damascus was set up in the holy place , the people ●ught to have separated from temple and sacrifices both , so lo●g as that abomination should stand in the holy place : nor can it be proved , that communicating with the church of israel as a member thereof ; was typicall and necessary to make up visible membership , as ceremoniall holinesse is ; for to adhere to the church in a sound worship , though the fellow-worshippers be scandalous , is a morall duty commanded in the second commandment ; as to forsake church-assemblies is a morall breach of that commandment , and forbidden to christians , hebr. . . who are under no law of ceremonies . and it is an untruth , that those who were legally cleane , and not ceremonially polluted , were members of the jewish visible church , though otherwise they were most flagitious : for to god they were no more his visible israel then sodome and gomorrah , isaiah . . or the children of ethiopia , amos . . and are condemned of god , as sinning against the profession of their visible incorporation in the israel of god , jerem. . , , , . but shall we name and repute them brethren , whom in conscience we know to be as ignorant and void of grace , as any pagan ? i answer , that if they professe the truth , though they walke inordinately , yea , and were excommunicated , paul willeth us to admonish th●m as brethren , thes. . . and calleth all the visible church of corinth ( for he writeth to good and bad ) amongst whom were many partakers of the table of devils , pleaders with their brethren before heathen , deniers of the resurrection , yea those to whom the gospell was hidden , cor. . brethren and saints by calling . but ( say our brethren ) to be cast out of the iewish church , was to be cast out of the common-wealth ; as to be a member of the church , and to be a member of the state is all one , because the state of the jewes and the church of the jews was all one ; and none is said to be cut off from the people , but he was put to death . answ. surely esay . vers . . these who are cast out by their brethren , and excommunicated , are not put to death , but men , who after they be cast out , live till god comfort them and shame their enemies ; but he shall appeare for your joy . secondly , that the state of gods israel and the church be all one , because the jewish policie was ruled by the judiciall law , and the judiciall law was no lesse divine then the ceremoniall law , is to me a wonder : for i conceive that they doe differ formally , though those same men , who were members of the state , were members also of the church ; but , as i conceive , not in one and the same formall reason ; first , because i conceive that the state , by order of nature , is before the church , for when the church was in a family state , god called abrahams family , and by calling made it a church . secondly , the kingdome of israel and the house of israel in covenant with god , as zion and jerusalem are thus differenced , that to be a state was common to the nation of the jewes with other nations , and is but a favour of providence ; but to be a church is a favour of grace , and implieth the lords calling and chusing that nation to be his owne people of his free grace , deut. . . and the lords gracious revealing of his testimonies to jacob and israel , whereas he did not so to every nation and state , psal. . . but say they , the very state of the iewes was divine , and ruled by a divine and supernaturall policie , as the judiciall law demonstrateth to us . but i answer , now you speake not of the state of the jewes , common with them to all states and nations ; but you speake of such a state and policie which i grant was divine , but yet different from the church ; because the church , as the church is ruled by the morall law and the commandments of both tables , and also by the ceremoniall law ; but the jewish state or common wealth , as such was ruled by the judiciall law onely , which respecteth onely the second table , and matters of mercy and justice , and not piety and matters of religion which concerne the first table ; and this is a vast difference betwixt the state of the jews and the church . thirdly , when israel rejected samuel , and would have a king , conforme to other nations , they sought that the state and forme of governmnent of the common-wealth should be changed , and affected conformity with the nations in their state , by introducing a monarchy , whereas they were ruled by judges before ; but in so doing they changed not the frame of the church , nor the worship of god , for they kept the priesthood , the whole morall , ceremoniall , and judiciall law entire , and their profession therein ; ergo , they did nothing which can formally destroy the being of a visible church , but they did much change the face of the state and civill policie , in that they refused god to reigne over them , and so his care in raising up judges and saviours out of any tribe , and brought the government to a monarchy , where the crowne by divine right was annexed to the tribe of judah . fourthly , it was possible that the state should remaine entire , if they had a lawfull king sitting upon davids throne , and were ruled according to the judiciall law : but if they should remaine without a priest and a law , and follow after baal , and change and alter gods worship , as the ten tribes did , and the kingdome of iudah in the end did , they should so marre and hurt the being and integrity of a visible church , as the lord should say , she is not my wife , neither am i her husband ; and yet they might remaine in that case a free monarchie , and have a state and policy in some better frame ; though i grant , de facto , these two twins , state and church , civill policy and religion , did die and live , were sicke and diseased , vigorous and healthy together ; yet doth this more , that state and church are different . and further , if that nation had made welcome , and with humble obedience beleeved in , and received the messiah , and reformed all , according as christ taught them , they should have beene a glorious church , and the beloved spouse of christ ; but their receiving and imbracing the messiah should not presently have cured their inthralled state , seeing now the scepter was departed from iudah , and a stranger and heathen was their king ; nor was it necessary that that saviour , whose kingdome is not of this world , john . . and came to bestow a spirituall redemption , and not to reestablish a flourishing earthly monarchy , and came to loose the works of the devill , heb. : . and not to spoile cesar of an earthly crowne , should also make the jews a flourishing state , and a free and vigorous monarchy againe : ergo , it is most cleare that state and church are two divers things , if the one may bee restored , and not the other . fifthly , the king , as the king was the head of the common-wealth , and might not meddle with the priests office , or performe any ecclesiasticall acts , and therefore was uzzah smitten of the lord with leprosie , because he would burne incense , which belonged to the priests onely . and the priest in offering sacrifices for his owne sinnes , and the sinnes of the people did represent the church , not the state. and the things of the lord ; to wit , church-matters , and the matters of the king , which were civill matters of state , are clearly distinguished , chron. . . which evidenceth to us , that the church and state in israel were two incorporations formally distinguished . and i see not , but those who doe confound them , may also say , that the christian state and the christian church be all one state , and that the government of the one must be the government of the other ; which were a confusion of the two kingdoms . it is true , god hath not prescribed judicials to the christian state , as he did to the jewish state , because shadows are now gone , when the body christ is come ; but gods determination of what is morally lawfull in civill laws , is as particular to us as to them ; and the jewish judicials did no more make the jewish state the jewish church , then it made aaron to be moses . and the priest to be the king and civill judge : yea , and by as good reason moses as a judge should be a prophet , and aaron as a prophet should be a judge ; and aaron as a priest might put a malefactor to death , and moses as a judge should proph●sie , and as a prophet should put to death a malefactor ; all which wanteth all reason and sense : and by that same reason the state and common-wealth of the jews , as a common-wealth , should offer sacrifices and prophesie ; and the church of the jews , as a church , should denounce warre and punish malefactors , which are things i cannot conceive . our brethren , in their answer to the eleventh question , teach , that those who are sui juris , as masters of families , are to separate from these parish-assemblies , where they must live without any lawfull ordinance of christ ; and to remaine there they hold it unlawfull for these reasons : first , we are commanded to observe all whatsoever christ hath commanded , matth. . . secondly , the spouse seeketh christ , and rests not till she finde him in the fullest manner , cant. . , . and . , , . david lamented when hee wanted the full fruition of gods ordinances , psal. . and . and . although he injoyed abiathar the high priest , and the ephod with him , and gad the prophet , sam. . , . . sam. . . so did ezra . , . yea and christ , though he had no need of sacraments , yet for example , would be baptized , keepe the passeover , &c. thirdly , no ordinances of christ may be spared , all are profitable . fourthly , he is a proud man , and knoweth not his owne heart in any measure , who thinketh he may be well without any ordinance of christ. fifthly say they , it is not enough the people may be without sinne , if they want any ordinances through the fault of the superiours , for that is not their fault who want them , but the superiours sinfull neglect , as appeareeth by the practice of the apostles , acts . . and . . for if they had neglected church-ordinances till the magistrates , who were enemies to the gospell , had commanded them , it had beene their grievous sinne . for if superiours neglect to provide bodily food , we doe not thinke that any mans conscience would be so scrupulous , but he would thinke it lawfull by all good meanes to provide in such a case for himselfe , rather then to sit still , and to say , if i perish for hunger , it is the sinne of those who have authority over me , and they must answer for it . now any ordinance of christ is as necessary for the good of the soule , as food is necessary for temporall life . ans. . i see not how all these arguments , taken from morall commandments , doe not oblige sonne as well as father , servant as master , all are christs free men , sonne or servant , so as they are to obey what over christ commandeth , matth. . . and with the spouse to seeke christ in the fullest measure , and in all his ordinances , and sonne and servant are to know their owne heart , so as they have need of all christs ordinances ; and are no more to remaine in a congregation where their soules are samished , because fathers and masters neglect to remove to other congregations , where their souls may be fed in the fullest measure ; then the apostles acts . . and . were to preach no more in the name of iesus , because the rulers commanded them to preach no more in his name . and therefore , with reve●ence of our godly brethren , i thinke this distinction of persons free , and sui juris , and of sonnes and servants , not to be allowed in this point . . it is one thing to remove from one congregation to another , and another thing to separate from it , as from a false constitute church , and to renounce all communion therewith , as if it were the synagogue of satan and antichrist , as the separatists doe , who refuse to heare any minister ordained by a prelate : now except these arguments conclude separation in this latter sense , as i thinke they can never come up halfeway to such a conclusion , i see not what they prove , nor doe they answer the question , &c. concerning standing in parish-assemblies in old england , and if it be lawfull to continue in them . which question must be expounded by the foregoing , quest. . if you hold that any of our parishionall assemblies are true visible churches , &c. hence the . question goeth thus in its genuine sense ; are we not then to separate from them , as from false churches ? now neither the spouse , cant. . . c. . . , . nor david , psal. . psal. . psal. nor ezra . . , . nor christ , in these cases when they sought christ in all his ordinances in the fullest measure , were members of false churches : nor did they seeke to separate from the church of israel , nor is it christs command , mat. . . to separate from these churches , and to renounce all communion with them , because these who sate in moses chaire , did neglect many ordinances of christ , for when they gave the false meaning of the law , they stole away the law , and so a principall ordinance of god , and yet christ ( i believe ) forbad separation , when he commanded that they should heare them , mat. . . nor doe i judge that because there was but one visible church , in israel , and therefore it was not lawfull to separate therefrom , and because under the new testament there be many visible churches , and many mount sions , therefore this abundance doth make separation from a true church , lawfull to us , which was unlawfull to the people of the jewes . for separation lawfull , is , to not partake of other mens sins , not to converse bretherly with knowen flagitious men , not to touch any uncleane thing , not to have communion with infidels , idols , belial , &c. now this is a morall duty obliging iewes and gentiles , and of perpetuall equity ; and to adhere to , and worship god aright , in a true church is also a morall branch of the second commande , and a seeking of christ , and his presence and face in his owne ordinances , and what was simply morall , and perpetually lawfull , the contrary thereof cannot be made lawfull , by reason of the multitude of congregations . . the most that these arguments of our brethren doe prove , is but that it is lawfull to goe , and dwell in a congregation where christ is worshiped in all his ordinances , rather then to remaine in that congregation , where he is not worshipped in all his ordinances ; and where the church censures are neglected , which to us is no separation from the visible church , but a removall from one part of the visible church to another , as he separateth not out of the house , who removeth from the gallery , to remaine and lie and eate in the chamber of the same house , because the gallery is cold and smoaky , and the chamber not so , for he hath not made a vow never to set his foote in the gallery . but to our brethren to separate or remove from a congregation , is to be dismembred from the only visible church on earth , for to them there is not any visible church on earth , except a congregation . and our brethrens mind in al these arguments , is to prove , that not only it is unlawfull to stand in the parish assemblies of old england , because of popish ceremonies ( and we teach separation from these ceremonies to be lawfull , but not from the churches ) but also that it is necessary , to adjoyne to independent congregations , as to the onely true visible churches on earth , and to none others , except we would sinne against the second commandement , which i conceive is proved by not one of these arguments . and to them all i answer , by a deniall of the connex proposition . as this , these who must doe all which christ commandeth , and seek christ in all his necessary ordinances , though superiors will not doe their duties , these must separate from true visible churches , where all christs ordinances are not , and joyne to independent congregations , as to the only true visible churches on earth . this proposition i deny . . if our brethrens argument hold sure that we are to separate from a church , in which we want some ordinances of christ , through the officers negligence , because ( say they a ) the spouse of christ will not rest , seeking her beloved untill she finde him , in the fullest manner , cant. . v. . & . , . then the spouse cant. . . & . , . is separating from one church to another , which the text will not beare . . i would have our reverend brethren to see and consider , if this argument doth not prove ( if it be nervose and concludent ) that one is to separate from a congregation , where are all the ordinances of christ , as in new england now they are , so being , hee goe from a lesse powerfull and lesse spirituall ministery , to another congregation , where incomparably there is a more powerfull and more spirituall ministery , for in so doing the separater should onely not rest as the spouse doth , cant. . & . seeking his beloved untill he find him , in the fullest manner . for he is to be found in a fuller manner , under a more powerfull ministery , and in a lesse full manner under a lesse powerfull ministery . but this separation i thinke our brethren would not allow , being contrary to our brethrens church-oath which tieth the professor to that congregation , whereof he is a sworne member to remaine there . . the designe and scope of our reverent brethrens argument , is that professors ought to separat from churches where presbyteriall government is , because in these churches , professors , as they conceive , doe not injoy all the ordinances of god. because they injoy not the society of a church consisting of onely visible saints , and they injoy not the free use of the censure of excommunication in such a manner as in their owne churches , and because in them the seales are often administred by those pastors who are pastors of another congregation then their owne , and for other causes also , which we thinke is not sound doctrine . but we thinke it no small prejudice ( say our brethren ) to the liberty given to a congregation , in these words , mat. . tell the church , if he heare not the church , &c. that the power of excommunication should be taken from them , and given to a presbyterian , or nationall church , and so your churches wante some ordinances of christ. answ. farre be it from us , to take from the churches of christ any power which christ hath given to them , for we teach that christ hath given to a single congregation , mat. . a power of excommunication , but how ? . he hath given to a congregation that 's alone in an iland separated from all other visible churches a power which they may exercise there alone , and. . he hath given that power to a congregation consociated with other sister congregations , which they may use but not independently , to the prejudice of the power that christ hath given to other churches , for seeing all sister churches are in danger to be infected with the leaven of a contu●acious member , no lesse then that single congreation , wherof the contumacious resideth as a member , christs wisdome , who careth for the whole , no lesse then for the part , cannot have denied a power conjunct with that congregation to save themselves from contag●ons , to all the consociated churches , for if they be under the same danger of contagion with the one single congregation , they must be armed and furnished , by christ iesus , with the same power against the same ill : so the power of excommunication is given to the congregation , but not to the congregation alone , but to all the congregations adjacent , so when i say , the god of nature hath given to the hands a power to defend the body , i say true , and if evill doe invade the body , nature doth tell it , and warne the hands to defend the body , but it followeth not from this , &c. if the power of defending the body be given by the god of nature , to the hands therefore that same power of defence is not given to the feete also , to the eye to foresee the ill , to reason , to the will to command that locomotive power , that is in all the members , to defend the body , and if nature give to the feete a power to defend the body , by fleeing , it is not consequence to infer , o then hath nature denied that power to the hands by fighting , so when christ giveth to the congregation ( which in consociated churches to us is but a part , a member , a fellowsister of many consociated congregations ) he giveth also that same power of excommunicating one common enemy , to all the consociated churches , without any prejudice to the power given to that congregation whereof he is a member , who is to be excommunicated , because a power is commmon to many members , it is not taken away from any one member . when a nationall church doth excommunicate a man who hath killed his father , and is , in an eminent manner , a publick stumbling ●lock to all the congregations of a whole nation , it is presum●d that the single congregation , whereof this parricide is a member , doth also joyne with the nationall church and put in exercise its owne power of excommunication , with the nationall church , and therefore that congregation is not spoyled of its power , by the nationall church , which joyneth with the nationall church in the use of that power . and this i thinke may be thus demonstrated , the power of excomunication is given by christ , to a congregation not upon a positive ground , because it is a visible instituted church , or as it is a congregation , but this power is given to it upon this formall ground and reason , because a congregation is a number of sinfull men , who may be scandalized and infected with the company of a scandalous person ; this is so cleare that if a congregation were a company of angels , which cannot be infected , no such power should be given to them , even as there was no neede that christ as a member of the church either of iewes , or christians should have a morall power of avoyding the company of publicans and sinners , because he might possibly convert them , but they could no wayes pervert , or infect him , with their scandalous and wicked conversation , therefore is this power given to a congregation , as they are men , who though frailty of nature , may be leavened with the bad conversation of the scandalous , who are to be excommunicated , as is cleare , cor. . . your glorying is not good , know yee not that a little leaven leavneth the whole lumpe ? therefore are we to withdraw our selves from drunkards , fornicators , extortioners , idolaters , and are not to eate and drinke with them , v. . and from these who walke inordinately , and are disobedient , thess. . , , . and from hereticks after they be admonished , lest we be infected with their company , just as nature hath given hands to a man , to desend himselfe from injuries and violence , and hornes to oxen to hold off violence , so hath christ given the power of excommunication to his church , as spirituall armour to ward off , and defend the contagion of wicked fellowship . now this reduplication of fraile men which may be leavened , agreeth to all men of many consociated congregations , who are in danger to be infected with the scandalous behavior of one member of a single congregation , and agreeth not to a congregation as such , therefore this power of excommunication must be given to many confociated congregations , for the lord iesus his salve , must be as large , as the wound , and his mean must be proportioned to his end . . the power of church ●jection and church separation of scandalous persons must be given to those to whom the power of church communion , and church confirming of christian love to a penitent excommunicate is given , for contraries are in the same subject , as hot and cold , seeing and blindnesse , but the power of church-communio at the same lords table , and of mutuall rebuking and exhorting , and receiving to grace after repentance , agreeth to members of many consociated churches , as is cleare , col. . . heb. . . cor. , , and not to one congregation only ; ergo , &c. the assumption is cleare , for except we deny communion of churches , in all gods ordinances , we must grant the truth of it . . we say that of our saviours ( tell the church ) is not to be drawen to such a narrow circle , as to a parishionall church only , the apostle practice is against this , for when paul and bannabas had no small dissention with the iewes of a particular church , they determined that paul and barnabas , and certaine others of them , should goe and tell the apostles , elders and whole church nationall or oecumemek , acts . . v. . and complaine of those who taught that , they behoved to be circumcised , acts . . and that greater church v. . . commanded by their ecclesiastick authority the contrary , and those who may lay on burdens of commandements as this greather church doth expresly , v. . acts . v. . ch . . v. . they may censure and excommunicate the disobeyers . and acts . . the greek church complained , acts . of the hebrewes , to a greater and superior church of apostles , and a multitude made up of both these v. . and . and they redresed the wrongs done to the grecian widdowes by appointing deacons ; also though there was no complaint , acts . yet was there a defect in the church , by the death of judas , and a catholike visible church did meete , and helpe the defect , by chosing mathias : it is true the ordination of matthias the apostle , was extraordinary , as is cleare by gods immediate directing of the lots , yet this was ordinary and perpetuall , that the election of mathias was by the common suff●ages of the whole church , acts . . and if we suppose that the church had been ignorant of that defect , any one member knowing the defect , was to tell that catholick church , whom it concerned to choose a catholick officer ; we thinke antioch had power great enough intensively to determine the controversie , acts . but it followeth not that the catholick church v. . ( let me terme it so ) had not more power extensively to determine that same controversie , in behalfe of both antioch , and of all the particular churches : subordinate powers are not contrary powers . chap. . sect . . prop. . quest . . manuscript . all who would be saved must be added to the church , as acts . . if god offer opportunity , gen. . . because every christian standeth in need of all the ordinances of christ , for his spirituall edification in holy fellowship with christ jesus . answer : for clearing of this we are to discusse this question . whether all , and every true believer must joyne himselfe to a particular visible congregation , which hath independently power of the keys within it selfe , god offering opportunity , if he would be saved ? dist. there is a necessity of joyning our selves to a visible church , but it is not necessitas medii , but necessitas praecepti , it is not such a necessity , as all are damned who are not within some visible church , for augustine is approved in this , there be many wolves within the church , and many sheepe without ; but if god offer opportunity , all are obl●ged by god his command●ment of confessing christ before men , to joyne themselves to the true visible church . . dist. there is a f●llowship with the visible church internall , of hidden believers , in the romish babel this is sufficient for salvation , necessitate medii , but though they want opportunity to joyne themselves to the reformed visible churches , yet doe they sin in the want of a profession of the truth and in not witnessing against the antichrist , which is answerable to an adjoyning of themselves to a visible church , and so those who doe not professe the faith of the true visible church , god offering opportunity , deny christ before men , and this externall fellowship is necessary to all , necessitate praecepti , though our lord graciously pardon this as an infirmity in his own , who for feare of cruell persecution , often dare 〈◊〉 confesse christ. . dist. the question is not whether all ought to joyne themselves 〈…〉 ●isible church , god offering occasion , but , if all ought by christs command , to joyne themselves to the churches independent of their visible congregations , if they would be saved ? our brethren 〈…〉 it , we deny it . . concl. an adjoyning to a visible church either formally to be a member thereof , or materially , confessing the faith of the true visible church , god offering occasion , is necessary to all . . because we are to be ready to give a confession of the ●●pe that is in us , to every one who asketh , pet. . . because he who denieth christ before men , him also will christ deny before 〈◊〉 father , and before the holy angells , mat. . . yet if some die without the church , having faith in christ , and want opportunity to confesse him before men , as repenting in the h●u●e of death , their salvation is sure , and they are within the invisible church : so is that to be taken , extra ecclesiam nulla salus , none can be saved who are every way without the church , both visible and invisible ; as all perished who were not in ncahs arke . . concl. when god offereth opportunity , all are obliged to joyne themselves to a true visible church . . because god hath promised his presence to the churches as his sonne walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks , rev. . . because faith commeth by hearing a sent preacher , rom. . . separation from the true visible church is condemned , heb. . . iud. v. . iohn . . . . good men esteeme it a rich favour of god to lay hold on the skirt of a jew , zech. . . and to have any communion , even as a doore keeper in gods house , and have desired it exceedingly and complained of the want thereof , psal. . . v. , . psal. . , psal. . , , , . psal. . v. , . . concl. our brethren , with reverence of their godlinesse and learning , erre , who hold all to be obliged , as they would be saved , to joyne to such a visible congregation of independent jurisdiction , as they conceive to be the only true church visible instituted by christ. that this is their mind is cleare by the first proposition of this manuscript , and by their answer a to the question where they say , that all not within their visible congregation as fixed sworne members thereof , are without the true church , in the apostles meaning , cor. . . what have i to doe to judge them also that are without ? doe not yee judge them that are within ? which is a most violent torturing of the word . for , . without are dogs , rev. . so our brethren expound the one place by the other , then all not fixed members of the congregationall church ( as they conceive it ) of corinth , are dogs , what ? was there not a church of saints on earth at this time , but in one independent congregation of corinth ? and were all the rest dogs and sorcerers ? . if judgeing here especially is the censure of excommunication used according unto christs institution , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord , and so to be used only toward regenerated persons , then paul was to intend the salvation of none by excommunication , but these who are members of one single congregation , who are within this visible house of christ , then all the rest are without the house and so in the state of damnation . . these who are without here are in a worse case , then if they were judged by the church , that their spirit may be saved . so they are left , v. . to a severe judgement , even to the immediate judgement of god , as a cajetan doth well observe ; for , sayth b erasmus sarcerius , deus publica & occulta sceler a non sinet impunita , and c bullinger maketh ( as it is cleare ) an answer to an objection , shall these who are without , even the wicked gentiles commit all wickednesse without punishment ? the apostle answereth , that , ( saith he ) god shall judge them , non impune in vitiorum lacunis se provolvent prophani , sed destinato tempore commeritas dabunt deo ultori paenas . and d paraeus , num impune ibunt eorum scelera ? ●mo judicem deum invenient . . these who are within here , are these who are of christs family , sayth e p. martyr , and opposite to gentiles and infidels saith f paraeus , for all men are divided into two ranks , some domesticks , and within the church , and to be judged by the church ; and some strangers , without the covenant , not in christ , neither in profession , nor truth , as gentiles , who are left to the severity of gods judgement , but our brethrens text shall beare that paul divideth mankind into three ranke . . some within , as true members of the church . . some without as infidels , and some without as not members of a fixed congregation , now believers without , and not members of a fixed congregation , are not left to the severity of the immediate judgment of god , as these who are without here , because they are to be rebuked , yea nor was the excommunicated man , after he should be cast out , left to the immediate judgement of god : but he was , . to remaine under the medicine of excommunication , and dayly to be judged , and eschewed as a heathen , that his spirit may be saved . . he was to be rebuked as a brother t●ess . . . . paul saying what have i to doe to judge these that are without , god judgeth them , he meaneth as much , as he will not acknowledge them , as any wayes belonging to christ ; but the believers of approved piety , because they are not members of a fixed congregation , are not thus cast off of paul , he became all things to all men , that he might gaine some , and would never cast off believers , and say what have i to doe with you ? in a word ; by those who are without are meant gentiles , as a ambrose b oecumenius c theophilact . &c. d calvin e martyr f bullinger g paraeus h beza , i pelican . k pomeranus l meyer m sarcerius n marloratus o paraphras . p the papists , haymo q aquinas and r with them erasmus , and all who ever commented on this place . lastly , our brethren expound these , who are within , to be the church of corinth , saints by calling , and saints in christ jesus , these to whom he prayeth grace and peace unto , and for whom he thanketh god for the grace given to them by iesus christ , cor. . . . now these thus within must be regenerated , and opposed to all not within : this way , but without , that is who are not saints by calling , not in christ iesus , then by these who are without , cannot be understood , all not fixed members of one visible congregation , who yet are by true faith in christ iesus ; and our brethren must mean , that paul , if he were living , would take no care to judge , and censure us , who believe in christ , and are members of provinciall and nationall churches , and are not members of such an independent congregation , as they conceive to be the only instituted visible church of the new testament . but if they all not without the state of salvation who are not members of such an independent flock . . all the churches of corinth , galatia , ephesus , th●ssalonica , philippi , rome , the seven churches of asia , who were not such independent churches must be in the state of damnation . . all are here obliged , who looke for salvation , by iesus christ , to joyne themselves to this visible independent church ; then all who are not members of such a church are in the state of damnation , if ( say our brethren ) they know this to be the only true church , and joyne not to it . o but ignorance cannot save men from damnation , for all are obliged to know this so necessary a meane of salvation , where only are the meane● of salvation , for then it should excuse scribes and pharisees , that they believed not in christ , for they knew him not , and if they had knowen , they would not have crucisied the lord of glory . cor. . , . now we judge this to be the revived error of-the donatists , whose mind was as a augustine saith , that the church of christ was only in that part of africa , where donatus was , and augustine writing to vincentius b objecteth the same , as morton answereth bellarmine , and the same say papists with donatists , that out of the church of rome there is no salvation . and c field answereth well , yee are to be charged with donatisme , who deny all christian societies in the world , ●to be where the popes feete are not kissed , to pertaine to the true church of god , and so cast into hell all the churches of aethiopia , armenia , syri● , graecia , russia , and so did optatus ( sayth d morton , answer , donatists you will have the church only to be where you art , but in dacia , misi● , thracia , achaia , &c. where you are not , you will not have it to be , nor will you have it to be in graecia , cappadocia , aegypt , &c. where you are not , and in innumerable istes and provinces . see how gerardus refuteth this e and certainly , if this be the only true visible christian church , to which all who looke for salvation by christ jesus , must joyne themselves , there is not in the christian world , a true visible church but with you . . i● all upon hazard of losing salvation , must joyne to such a church , having power of jurisdiction independently within it selfe , then must all separate from all the reformed churches , where there be provinciall and nationall churches , now this is also the error of the donatists and anabaptists , against which read what a learned parker saith and reverend b brightman , and c cartwright , but of this hereafter . . the principall reason given by the author , is , the lord added to the church acts . such as should be saved , this is not in the independent visible congregation , as is proved elsewhere . a second reason he giveth , because every christian standeth in neede of the ordinances of christ , for his spirituall edification , in holy fellowship , with christ iesus , or else christ ordained them in vaine , therefore all who would be saved , must joyne to a visible independent congregation ; hence no church hath title and due right to the word and sacraments , but members of such a congregation : this is the reason why men of approved piety are denied the seales of the covenant , and their children excluded from baptisme and themselves debarred from the lords supper , because they are not members of your congregation , and members they cannot be , because they finde no warrant from gods word , to sweare your church-covenant , and to your church-government , which is so farre against the word of god : the seales of the covenant belong to all professing believers , as gods word sayth , acts . . acts . . acts . , , . cor. . . whether he be a member of a particular independent church , or not , god the lawgiver maketh not this exception , neither should man doe it . propos. . all are entered by covenant into a church-state , or into a membership of a visible church . answ. here are we to encounter with a matter much pressed by our reverend brethren , called a church covenant . a treatise came unto my hand in a manuscript of this subject ; in their apology , and in their answer to the questions propounded by the brethren of old england this is much pressed . i will first explaine the church-covenant according to our reverend brethrens minde . : prove there is no such thing in gods word . . answer their arguments taken out of the old testament . . answer their arguments from the new testament , both in this treatise here in this chapter , and hereafter ; and also their arguments in all their treatises . hence for the first two , i begin with this first question . whether or not all are to he in-churched or entered members of a visible church by an explicit , and vocall or prof●ssed covenant ? our brethrens mind is first to be cleared . . the state of the question to be explained . . the truth to be confirmed . in the answers to the questions a sent to new england they require of all persons come to age , before they be received members of the church : . a publiqu● vocall declaration of the manner and soundnesse of their conversion , and that either in continued speech ( saith b the apologie ) or in answer to questions propounded by the elders . . they require a publick prof●ssion of their faith , concerning the articles of their religion , the foresaid way also . . an expresse vocall covenanting by oath , to walke in that faith ; and to submit ( saith the authour ) c themselves to god , and one to another , in his feare ; and to walke in a professed subjection to all his holy ordinances , cleaving one to another , as fellow members of the same body in brotherly love and holy watchfulnesse unto mutuall edification in christ iesus . . and a covenanting , not to depart from the said church , without the consent thereof . this church-covenant ( saith the apologie ) d is the essentiall or formall cause of a visible church , as a flocke of saints is the materiall cause , and so necessarily of the being of a church , that without it none can claim church-communion ; and therefore it is that whereby a church is constituted in its integrity , that whereby a fallen church is againe restored ; and that , which being taken away , the church is dissolved , and ceaseth to be a church ; and it is that whereby ministers have power over the people , and people interest in their ministers , and one member hath interest and powerover another fellow-member . the manner of entring in church-state is this : . a number of christians , with a gifted or experienced elder meet often together ( saith this e authour ) about the things of god , and performe some duties of prayer , and spirituall conference together , till a sufficient company of them be well satisfied , in the spirituall good estate one of another , and so have approved themselves to one anothers consciences , in the sight of god , as living stones , fit to be said on the lords spirituall temple . . they having acquainted the christian magistrate , and neerest adjoyning churches , of their purpose of entring into church-fellowship convene in a day kept with fasting and praying , and preaching , one b●ing chosen with common consent of the whole , in name of the rest , standeth up , and propoundeth the covenant , in the foresaid four articles above named . . all the rest declare their joynt consent in this covenant , either by silence , or word of mouth , or writing , . the brethren of other churches , some specials , in name of the rest , reach out to them the right hand of fellowship , exhorting them to stand stedfast in the lord. which done , prayers made to god for pardon and acceptance of the people , a psalm is sung . but when a church is to be gathered together of infidels , they must be first converted believers , and so fit materials for church fellowship , before any of those things can be done by them . . baptisme maketh none members of the visible church . . a church fallen , cannot be accepted of god to church fellowship , till they renew their church covenant . thus shortly for their mind about the gathering of a visible church . let these distinctions be considered for the right stating of the question . . distinct. there is a covenant of free grace , betwixt god and sinners , founded upon the surety christ iesus ; laid hold on by us , when we believe in christ , but a church covenant differenced from this is in question , & sub judice lis est . . distinct. there is a covenant of baptisme , made by all , and a covenant vertuall and implicite renewed , when we are to receive the lords supper , but an explicite positive professed church covenant , by oa●h in-churching a person , or a society , to a state-church is now questioned . . distinct. an explicite vocall covenant whereby we bind our selves to the first three articles in a tacite way , by entring in a new relation to such a pastor , and to such a flocke , we deny not , as if the thing were unlawfull ▪ for we may sweare to performe gods commandements , observing all things requisite in a lawfull oath . . but that such a covenant is required by divine institution , as the essentiall forme of a church and church-membership , as though without this none were entered members of the visible churches of the apostles , nor can now be entered in church-state , nor can have right unto the seales of the covenant , we utterly deny . . distinct. we grant a covenant in baptisme which is the seale of our entry unto the visible church . . that it is requisit that such heretickes , papists , infidels , as be received as members of our visible church , ( from which papists have fallen , having received baptisme from us ) doe openly professe subjection to god , and his church , in all the ordinances of god. and that infidels give a confession of their faith , before they be baptized . . nor deny we that at the election of a pastor , the pastor and people tie themselves , by reciprocation of oathes , to each other , the one to fulfill faithfully the ministery that he hath received of the lord ; the other to submit to his ministery in the lord , but these reciprocall oathes , make neither of them members of a visible church , for they were that before these oathes were taken . . distinct. any professor removing from one congregation to another , and so comming under a new relation to such a church , or such a ministery , is in a tacite and vertuall covenant to discharge himselfe in all the duties of a member of that congregation , but this is nothing for a church-covenant ; for when six are converted in the congregation whereof i am a member , or an excommunicated person heartily and unfainely repenteth , there ariseth a new relation betwixt those converts and the church of god ; and a tie and obligation of duties to those persons greater then was before , as being now members of one mysticall and invisible body . yet cur brethren cannot say , there is requisite , that the church renew their church-covenant towards such , seeing the use of the covenant renewed is to restore a fallen church , or to make a non-church to be a church ; and if those six be converted by my knowledge , there resulteth thence an obligation of a vertuall and tacite covenant betwixt them and me ; but there is no need of an explicite and vocall covenant , to tie us to duties that we are now obliged to in a stricter manner then we were before ; for when one is taken to be a steward in a great family , there may be a sort of covenant betwixt that servant and the lord of the house , and there resulteth from his office and charge a tie and obligation , not onely to the head of the family , but also to the children and fellow-servants of the house ; but there is no need of an expresse , vocall , and professed covenant betwixt the new steward and the children and servants ; yea and strangers also , to whom he owes some acts of steward-duties , though there doe result a vertuall covenant . farre lesse is there a necessity of an expresse and vocall covenant before that steward can have claime to the keyes , or be received in office . so when one entereth into covenant with god , and by faith layeth hold on the covenant , there resulteth from that act of taking the lord to be his god , a covenant-obligation to doe duty to all men , as the covenant of god doth oblige him ; yea , and to doe workes of mercy to his beast ( for a good man will have mercy on the life of his beast ) and he is obliged to a duty by that covenant with god to his children , which are not yet borne , to servants who are not yet his servants , but shall hereafter be his servants , to these who are not yet converted to christ , now it is true a vertuall and tacite covenant , resulteth toward all these , even toward the beast , the children not yet borne , &c. when the person first by faith entereth in covenant with god ; but none , master of common sense and judgement will say there is required a vocall and explicite , and professed covenant , betwixt such an one entered in covenant with god , and his beast , and his children not yet borne , or that the foresaid tacite and vertuall covenant , which doth but result from the man his covenanting with god is either the cause , or essence , or formall reason , whereby he is made a formall contracter and covenanter with god. so , though when i enter a member of such a congregation , there ariseth thence an obligation of duty , or a tacite covenant , tying me in duties to all members present , or which shall be members of that congregation , though they should come from india ; yet in reason it cannot be said , that there is required an expresse vocall covenant betwixt me and all , who shall be fellow-members of this congregation ; and farre lesse that such a covenant doth make me a member of that congregation , yea because i am already a member of that congregation ; thence ariseth a tacite covenant toward such and such duties and persons . . i understand not how our brethren doe keepe christian and religious communion , with many professours of approved piety , and that in private conference , praying together , and publiquely praising together , and yet deny to have any church-communion with such approved professors , in partaking with them the seales of the covenant , and censures of the church , i doubt how they can comfort the feeble minded , and not also warne and rebuke them , which are called acts of church-c●nsure . then the question is not , if there be a tacit and vertuall covenant when persons become members of such a visible congregation . . nor doe we question whether such a church-covenant may be lawfully sworne . we thinke it may , though to sweare the last article not to remove from such a congregation without their consent , i thinke not lawfull , nor is my habitation in such a place a matter of church-discipline . . but the question is , if such a church-covenant , by divine or apostolick warrant , not onely be lawfull , but the necessary and apostolick meane , yea and the essentiall forme of a visible church ; so as without it persons are not members of one visible church , and want all right and title to a church-membership , to the seales of grace , and censures of the church . our brethren affirme , we deny . concl. the former considerations being cleare , we hold that such a church-covenant is a conceit destitute of all authority of gods word , old or new testament , and therefore to be rejected as a way of mens devising , . argum. all will-worship laying a band on the conscience , where god hath layed none , is damnable ; but to tye the oath of god to one particular duty rather then another , so as you cannot , without such an oath , enter into such a state , nor have title and right to the seales of grace and gods ordinances , is will-worship , and that by vertue of a divine law , and is a binding of the conscience where god hath not bound it . the major is undeniable . papists as a alphonsus à castro , and b bellarmin● lay upon us , that which was the errour of lampetians , that we condemne all sorte of vowe● , ●● snares to the consciences of men . but bellarmine c saith , that luther and ca●●in acknowledge , we thinke vowes of things commanded of god lawfull ; the truth is , we teach it to be will-worship to a person to vow single life , where god hath not given the gift of continency , because men binde with an oath that which god hath not bound us unto by a command . so d origen , gregory , nazianzen , ambrose , augustine say , those which want the gift of continency cannot live without wives , and so should not burne . see how e bellarmine and f maldonat contending for will-worship , prescribe the contrary . i prove the assumption ; for a minister to sweare the oath of fidelity to his flocke , is lawfull ; but to tye an oath so to his ministery , as to say the apostles teach , he cannot be a minister who sweareth not that oath , is to lay a bond on the conscience , where god hath laid none . that a father swear to performe the duties of a father , a master the duties of a master towards his servant , is lawfull ; but to lay a bond on him , that he is in conscience , and before god no father , no master , except he sweare to performe those duties , is to lay a bond on the conscience where god hath laid none . so to sweare subjection to such a ministery and visible church , is lawfull ; but to tie by an apostolike law and practice the oath of god so to such duties , as to make this church-oath the essentiall forme of such membership , so as you cannot enter into church-state , nor have right to the seales of the covenant without such an oath , is to binde where god hath not bound ; for there is no law of god , putting upon any church-oath such a state , as that it is the essentiall forme of church-membership , without the which a man is no church-member , and the church visible , not swearing this oath is no church . that way are members to be in-churched , and to enter into a church-fellowship , which way members were entred in the apostolike church . but members were not entred into the apostolike church by such a covenant , but onely they beleeved , professed beleefe , and were baptized ; when the incestuous person is re-entred ( it is said ) onely , cor. . he was grieved , and testified it , and they did forgive him , and confirme their love to him , , . there is here no church-covenant ; and samaria . . received the word gladly , beleeved , and was baptized ; when saul is converted acts . simon magus baptised , acts . cornelius and his house baptized , acts . the church of ephe●us planted , acts . of corinth , acts . . of berea , acts . . philippi acts . th●ssalonica , acts . of rom , acts . we heare no expressed vocall covenant . so acts . three thousand were added to the visible church ; now they were not gathered nor in-churched as you gather : first , they did not meet often together for prayer and spirituall conference , while they were satisfied in conscience of the good estate one of another , and approved to one anothers consciences in the sight of god , as living stones fit to be laid in the lords spirituall temple , as you require ; a because frequent meeting and satisfaction in conscience of the regeneration one of another could not be performed by three thousand , all converted and added to the church in one day ; for before they were non-converts , and at one sermon were pricked in heart that they had slaine the lord of glory , acts . . . and the same day there were added to them three thousand souls . our brethren say , it was about the p●ntecost , when the day was now the longest , and so they might make short confessions of the soundnesse of their conversation before the apostles , who had such discerning spirits . answ. truly it is a most weake and reasonlesse conjecture for all the three thousand behoved to be miraculonsly quicke of discerning ; for they could not sweare mutually one to another those church-duties , except they had beene satisfied in conscience of the regeneration of one another . surely such a miracle of three thousand extraordinarily gifted with the spirit of discerning would not have beene concealed , though it be sure , ananias and saphira , who deceived the apostles , were in this number . secondly , how could they all celebrate a day of fasting and prayer , and from the third houre , which is our ninth houre , dupatch the confessions and evidences of the sound worke of conversion of thirty hundred , all baptized and added to the church ? capiat qui volet ; because this place is used to prove a church-covenant , i will here once for all deliver it out of our brethrens hands : the author of the church-covenant b saith , there was hazard of excommunication , john . . and persecution . acts . . and therefore the very profession of christ in such peri●●us times was a sufficient note of discerning , to such discerning spirits as the apostles . answ. if you meane miraculous power of discerning in the apostles , that was not put forth in this company , where were such hypocrites as ananias and saphira . secondly , this miraculous discerning behoved to bee in all the three thousand , for the satisfaction of their consciences , of the good estate spirituall of all of them . and if it be miraculous ( as it must be , if done in the space of sixe houres , as it was done the same day that they heard peter , vers . . ) then our brethren cannot alleadge it for ordinary inchurching of members as they doe . secondly , if it be an ordinary spirit of discerning , then at one act of profession are members to be received , and so often meeting for the satisfaction of all their consciences is not requisite . thirdly , if profession for feare of persecution be an infallible signe , then those who are chased out of england by prelates , and come to new england , to seeke the gospell in purity , should be received to the church , whereas you hold them out of your societies many yeeres . fourthly , suffering for a while for the truth is not much , iudas , alexander , demas , did that for a while . the c apologie and discourse of the church-covenant saith , d these converts professed their glad receiving of the vvord , vers . . in saving themselves from that untoward generation , else they had not beene admitted to baptisme . but all this made them not members of the church for they might havereturned , notwithstanding of this , to pontus , asia , cappadocia , &c. but they continued stedfastly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the doctrine of the apostles . secondly , they continued in fellowship , this is church-fellowship ; for we cannot say , that it was exercise of doctrine and sacraments , and confound this fellowship with doctrine , no more then we can confound doctrine and sacraments , which are distinguished in the text , and therefore it is a fellowship of holy church-state , and so noteth ; . a combination in church-state . . in gifts inward to edification , and outward in reliefe of the poore by worldly goods . answ. . they could not continue stedfast in the apostles doctrine and fellowship before they were added to the church , for stedfastnesse in doctrine , and saving themselves from the froward generation , could not be but habituall holinesse , not perfected in sixe houres . now that same day , vers . . in the which they gladly heard the vvord , they were both baptized and added to the church ; and therefore their stedfast continuing in church-state , can no wayes make them members in church-state . secondly , though they should have returned to pontus and asia , &c. they returned added to the church ; church-state is no prison-state , to tie men to such a congregation locally , as you make it . thirdly , there is no word of a church-covenant , except when they were baptized they made it , and that is no church-covenant , and that should not be omitted , seeing it conduceth so much , first , to the being of the visible church , in the which we must serve god acceptably ; secondly , and is of such consequence to the end , that the holy things of god be not prophaned , as you say . thirdly , that the seales of the covenant be not made signes of falshood . fourthly , wee would not be stricter then god , who received upon sixe houres profession three thousand to church state . fifthly , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fellowship is no fellowship of church-order , which made them members of the visible church , because the first day that they heard peter they were added to the church , and being added they continued in this fellowship , and in use of the word , sacraments , and prayer ; as a reasonable soule is that which makes a man discourse , and discoursing is not the cause of a reasonable soule e beza calleth it fellowship in christian charity to the poore . and f the syrian interpreter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . g the arablan interpreter saith the same . h the ancient latine interpreter , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . fourthly , if baptisme bee the seale of our entry into the church , as cor. . . as circumcision was the seale of the members of the jewes visible church , then such a covenant is not a formall reason of our church-membership , but the former is true , as i shall prove hereafter ; ergo , so is the latter . the proposition standeth , because all the baptized are members of the visible church before they can sweare this covenant , even when they are infants . . argu. this church-covenant is either all one with the covenant of grace , or it is a covenant divers from the covenant of grace ; but neither wayes can it be the essentiall forme of a visible church ; ergo , first , the covenant of grace cannot be the forme of a visible church , because then all baptized , and all beleevess should be in covenant with god , as church members of a visible church , which our brethren deny . if it be a covenant divers from it , it must be of another nature , and lay another obligatory tie , then either the covenant of workes , or the covenant of grace , and so must tie us to other duties then either the law or gospell require of us ; and so is beside that gospell which paul taught and maketh the teacher , though an angell i from heaven , accursed , and not to be received . the k apologie answering this , saith , first , we call it a church-covenant , to distinguish it from civill covenants , and also from the covenant of grace ; for the eunuch and godly strangers , isaiah . . were in the covenant of grace by faith , and yet complained that they were separated from the church , and not in covenant with gods visible church . answ. . no doubt an excommunicated person , whose spirit is saved in the day of christ , may be in the covenant of grace , and yet cut off from the visible church for enormous scandals ; but this is no ground to make your church-covenant different from the covenant of grace . a beleever in the covenant of grace may not doe a duty to father , brother , or master ; but it is a weak consequence , that therefore there is a covenant-oath betwixt brother and brother , sonne and father , servant and master , which is commanded by a divine law of perpetuall equity under both old and new testament , as you make this covenant of the church to be , which persons must sweare , ere they can come under these relations of brother , son , and servant . the covenant of grace , and the whole evangell , teach us to confesse christ before men , and to walke before god , and be perfect , and so that we should joyn our selves to the true visible churh . but none can in right reason conclude , that it is a divine law that necessitateth me to sweare another covenant then the covenant of grace , in relation to those particular duties , or to sweare over againe the covenant of grace , in relation to the duties that i owe to the visible church , else i am not a member thereof . and that same covenant in relation to my father , brother , and master , else i cannot be a sonne , brother , or servant ; this were to multiply covenants according to the multitude of duties that i am obliged unto , and that by a divine commandment . the word of god l layeth a tie on pastors to feed the flock , and the flock to submit , in the lord to the pastors . but god hath not , by a new commandment , laid a new tie and obligation , that timothy shall not be made a pastor of a church at ephesus , and a member thereof , nor the church at ephesus constituted in a church-state , having right to all the holy things of god , while , first , they be all perswaded of one anothers regeneration ; secondly , while all sware those duties in a church-oath ; thirdly , and all sweare that they shall not separate from church followship , but by mutuall consent . heare a reply againe to this of the m apologie ; such promises as leave a man in an absolute estate as he was before , and ingage onely his act , not his person , these lay no forcing band on any man , but as every man is tied to keepe his lawfull promise , are tied : but yet such promises or covenants as are made according to the ordinances of god , and doe put upon men a relative estate , they put on them a forcing band to performe such duties , such as are the promises of marriage betwixt man and wife , master and servant , magistrate and subject , minister and people , brother and brother in church-state ; these put on men a divine tie , and binde by a divine ordinance to performe such duties . but these scriptures make not these relations , these places make not every man who can teach , a pastor to us , except we call him to be our pastor ; indeed if we call him , we ingage our selves in subjection to him : you might as well say , it is not the c●venanting of a wife to her husband , or the subject to the magistrate , that giveth the husband power over his wife , and the magistrate power over his subject , but the word of god that giveth power to both , and yet you know well the husband cannot call such an one his wife , but by covenant made in marriage . answ. this is all which with most colour of reason can be said . but these places of scripture are not brought to prove the pastors calling to the people , or their relative case of subjection to him , but onely they prove , that the covenant of grace and whole gospell layeth a tie of many duties upon us , which obligeth us , without comming under the tie of an expresse , vocall , and publique oath , necessitating us by a divine law , because in this that i professe the faith of christ , and am baptized , i am a member of the visible church , and have right to all the holy things and seales of grace , without such an oath , because the covenant of grace tieth me to a●joyne my selfe to some particular congregation , and a called pastor who hath gi●●● , and a calling from the church , is a member of the visible church , before he be called to be your pastor , though he be a member of no particular congregation ; for you lay down as an undeniable principle , and the basis of your whole doctrine of independent government ; that there are no visible churches in the world but a congregation meeting in one place to worship god , which i have demonstrated to be most false : for if my hand be visible , my whole body is visible , though with one act of the eye it cannot be seene ; if a part of a medow be visible , all the medow , thought ten miles in bredth and length , is visible : so , though a congregation onely may be actually seene , when it is convened within the soure angles of a materiall house , yet all the congregations on earth make one visible church , and have some visible and audible acts of externall government cummon to all ; as that all pray , praise , fast , mourne , rejoyce , one with another ; and are to rebuke , exhort , comfort one another , and to censure one another , so farre as is possible , and of right and by law meet in one councell , and so by christs institution are that way visible ; that a single cong egation is visible which meeteth in one house , though many be absent de facto , through sickenesse callings , imprisonment , and some through sinfull neglect ; and therefore you doe not prove , that we are made members of the visible church , having right to all the holy things of god , by a church-oath or covenant as you speake ; neither doe we deny but when one doth enter a member to such a congregation under the ministery of a. b. but he commeth under a ●ew relative state , by an implicite and vertuall covenant , to submit to his ministery , yea and a. b. commeth under that same relative state of pastorall feeding of such an one . but you doe not say , that a. b. entereth by a vocall church-covenant , in a membership of church order , and that by a commanded covenant of perpetuall equity , laying a new forcing band upon both the person and the acts of a. b. just as the husband and the wife come under a marriage covenant . so c. d. sometime excommunicated , now repenteth , and is received as a gained brother , in the bosome of the church ; all the members of the church come by that under a new relation to c. d. as to a repenting brother , and they are to love , reverence , exhort , rebuke , comfort him , by vertue of the covenant of grace , but ( i conceive ) not by a new church covenant entering them as in a church membership , and church order towards him . so a new particular church is erected , and now counted in amongst the number of the visible churches ; all the sister churches are to discharge themselves in the duties of imbracing , loving , exhorting , edifying , rebuking , comforting this sister church new elected . but i thinke our brethren will not say , that all the sister churches are to make a new expresse vocall church covenant with this sister church , and such a church covenant as maketh them all visible churches , which have right to all the holy things of god , in and with this new sister church ; it is the covenant of grace once laid hold on by all these sister churches , which tieth them to all christian duties , both one toward another , and also toward all churches to come in . i thinke there is no necessity of an expresse covenant of marriage betwixt this new church , and all the former sister churches , as there is a solemne marriage oath betwixt the husband and the wife , and a solemne covenant betwixt the supreame magistrate and the king and his subjects , when the king is crowned ; all we say is this , if for new relations god laid a bond and compelling tie of conscience , and that of perpetuall equity , whereby we are entered in every new relative state , beside the bond that law and gospell lay on us , to doe duties to all men both in church and common-wealth , then when a person is converted unto christ , and another made a lawyer , and another a pastour , another a physitian , another a magistrat , another a learned philosopher and president of an academy , another a skilled schoolemaster , and so come under new relations many and diverse in the church and state , i should not be obliged to love , honour , and reverence them all by vertue of the fifth commandement ; but i behoved by vertue of a particular covenant ( i know not how to name it ) to come under some new relative marriage toward all these , else i could not performe duties of love and reverence to them ; and though there be a convenant tacite betwixt a new member of a congregation , and a. b. the pastor , and they come under a new relation , covenant waies ( which i grant ) is not the point in question , but this new covenant is that which by necessity of a divine commandement of perpetuall equity , maketh the now adjoyner a member of the visible church , and giveth him right and claime to the seales of the covenant , so as without this covenant he is without , and not to be judged by the church , but left to the judgement of god , as cor. . , . one who is without . thirdly , the * apologie saith , and a author of the church covenant . the covenant of grace is done in private in a mans closet , betwixt the lord and himselfe , the other in some publique assembly . . the covenant of grace is of one christian in particular , the other of a company joyntly , some call the one personall , the other generall . answ. though the covenant of grace may be layd hold on in a closet or private chamber , yet the principall party contracter is god on the one part ; and on the other not a single man , but christ , b and all his seed , c yea the catholique church , d all the house of israel ; but our brethrens mind is , that conversion of soules to christ is not a church act , nor a pastorall act , but a worke of charity , performed by private christians ; yet by the pastorall paines of peter , three thousand , act. . were converted ; and this is a depressing of publique ministery , and an exalting of popular prophecying , which is the onely publique and ordinary meane blessed of god , for conversion . . by this all the covenants sworne in israel and iudah were not a swearing of the covenant of grace but of a church covenant , which we must refute hereafter . . we desire an instance or practice of receiving any into the publique assembly , by this church covenant ; publique receiving by baptisme we grant in cornelius , act. . the eunuch , act. . lydia , and her house , act. . the iayler , act. . but we never read of sauls church●covenant , and church confession , wherby he was publiquely received into church membership , nor of such private tryall of church members and therefore wee thinke it to bee a devise of men . . arg. if this church-covenant be the essence and forme of a visible church , which differenceth betwixt the visible and invisible church , then there have beene no visible churches since the apostles dayes , nor are there any in the christian world , this day , save only in new england and some few other places , for remove the forme and essence of a thing , and you remove the thing it selfe : now if this be true , and if ministers have ministeriall or pastorall power over people , and the people no relation unto them as to pastors , except they mutually enter into this church-covenant , then are they no pastors to the people at all , and so all baptised in the reformed churches , where this covenant was not , are as pagans and infidels , and all their baptisme no baptisme , and all their church acts no church acts , and they all are to be rebaptized . the author of the church-covenant a saith , there is a reall , implicite , and substantiall comming together , and a substantiall professing of faith and agreement , which may preserve the essence of the church in england , and other places , though ●hers be not so expresse and formall a covenanting , as neede were ; the eternity of the covenant of god is such , that it is not the interposition of many corruptions , that may arise in after time , that can disanull the same , except they willfully breake the covenant , and reject the offer of the gospel , which we perswade our selves england is not come unto , and so the covenant remaineth which preserveth the essence of the churches to this day ; and he giveth this answer from learned parker b and he alleadgeth fox c who out of gilda , saith england received the gospell in tiberi●● his time , and joseph of arimathea was sent from france to england by philip the apostle an . ● . answ. i deny not but tertullian , and nicephorus both , say , the gospell then came to the wildest in brittaine , and no doubt be ●●ved to come to scotland , when simon zelotes cam● to brittaine ; but so did the gospell come to rome , philippi , corinth , will i● follow that the covenant is there yet ? and . if the not wilfull rejecting of the gospell save the essenc● of a visible church in england ( which charity we command in our brethren ) rome may have share of the charity also , and there may be a true visible church there , as yet : and we then wronged them in separation from them , because gods people in babel , did never wilfully reject the covenant . . our brethren professe a they cannot receive into their church , the godly persecuted and banished out of old england , by prelates for the truth , unlesse ( saith he ) they be pleased to take hold of our church-covenant . now not to admit into your churches , such as cannot sweare your church covenant , in all one as to acknowledge such not a true church , and to separate from them , and so the want of an explicite and formall church-covenanting , to you maketh professors no church-visible , and unworthy of the seales of grace ; but reverend parker b saith , that there is such a profession of the covenant in england , sic ut secessionem facere salvâ conscientiâ nullus possit , that no man with a safe conscience can separat therefrom . . the ignorants and simple ones amongst the papists have not rejected the gospell obstinately , in respect it was never revealed to them , yet the simple ignorance of points principally fundamentall maketh them a non-church , and therefore the want of your church-covenant must un-church all the reformed churches on earth : it is not much that this author saith , the primitive church never did receive children to the communion , nor any till they made a confession of their faith. what then ? a confession of their faith and an evidence of their knowledge , is not your chuoch-covenant for by your church-covenant the parties to be received in the church must give testimony of their conversion to the satisfaction of the consciences of all your church ; the old confirmation of children was not such a thing . . the tryall of the knowledge of such , as were of old not yet admitted to the lords supper , is not an inchurching of them , because , if ●ny not that way tryed in the ancient church , did fall into scan●alcus sins , they were , being come to yeeres lyable to the censures of the church , which said , certainly the ancients acknowledged them to be members of that visible church , but you say expresly , they are without , and you have not to doe to judge them , cor. . . and let the author see for this a the coun●ell of laodicea , b gregorius c leo , d augustine e tertullian , f cyprian , g ambrose , h the councell of elibert , i perkins , k martine bucer l chemnitius m peter martyr , who all teach that confirmation was nothing lesse then your church-covenant . . that it had never that meaning to make persons formll members of the visible church . . that that was sufficiently done in baptisme . . that comfimation was never the essentiall forme of a visible church , but rather the repetition of baptisme ; so n whitgift , ( a man much for confirmation , ) confirmatio apud nos usurpatur , ut pueri proprio ore , proprioque consensu , pactum quod in baptismo inibant coram ecclesiâ confirment , o pareus sayth they were in the church before , sed impositione manuum in ecclesiam adultorum recipie bantur . p beza saith the same q calvin , liberi infidelium ab utero adoptati , & jure promissionis pertinebant ad corpus ecclesiae , r bullinger acknowledging that in baptisme infantes were received into the church , saith , pastorum manus illis impone bantur , quorum fidei committebatur ecclesiarum cura . . argum. a multitude of unwarrantable wayes partly goeth before , partly conveyeth this church-covenant , as. . it is a dreame that all are converted by the meanes of private christians , without the ministery of sent pastors , by hearing of whom faith commeth , all are made materialls and convertes in private without pastors ; judge if this be christs order and way . . how it is possible a church shall be gathered amongst infidells ? this way infidells cannot convert infidells , and pastors as pastors cannot now be sent , by our brethrens doctrine , for pastors are not pastors but in relation to a particular congregation , therefore pastors as pastors cannot be sent to indians . . they must be assured in conscience , at least satisfied in every one anothers salvation , and sound conversion : were the apostles satisfied anent the conversion of anainas , saphira , simon magus , alexander , hymeneus , philetus , demas and others ? . by what warrant of the word are private christians , not in office , made the ordinary and onely converters of soules to christ ? conversion commeth then ordinarily and solely by unsent preachers , and private persons ministery . . what warrant have the sister churches , of the word , to give the right hand of fellowship to a new erected church ? for , to give the hand of fellowship is an authoritative and pastoriall act , as gal. . when iames , cephas , and iohn perceived the grace that was given unto me , they gave unto me and barnabas the right hands of fellowship , that is , saith pareus , a they received us to the colledge of the apostles , so bullinger b and c beza , now this is to receive them in amongst the number of churches , as pareus , and members of the catholick church , but churches being all independent , and of a like authority , the sister churches having no power over this new erected church , what authority hath sister churches , to acknowledge them as sister churches ? for . they cannot be upon two or three houres ●●ght of them , hearing none of them speak , satisfied in their consciences of their regeneration . . by no authority can they receive them as members of the catholick church , for this receiving it a church-act and they have no church-power over them . . what a meeting is this of diverse churches for the receiving of a new sister church ? it is a church ( i believe ) meeting together , and yet it is not a congregation , and it is an ordinary visible church , for at the admitting of all converts to the church-order , this meeting must be : surely here our brethren acknowledge that there is a church , in the new testament made up of many congregations , which hath power to receive in whole churches , and members of churches unto a church-fellowship ; this is a visible provinciall , or nationall church , which they other wayes deny . . we see no warrant , why one not yet a pastor or elder should take on him to speake to a congregation , though they all conse●t that he speak , exhort and pray , we desire a warrant from gods word , that such a thing should be ; here is preaching , and church-preaching , church-praying and praysing , and yet there is no pastor nor man called to office , we see not how this will abide the measure of the golden-neede , especially in a constituted church ▪ . we desire to see such a church-action , acts . where three thousand were added in one day to the church . . if it be enough that all be silent , and testify their consent to the church covenant by silence , how is the church-magistrate and these of other churches satisfied in conscience of the conversion of all ? for all consent to this , the magistrate may be a king , and he cannot acknowledge these as a church , whose faces he never saw before . . they sweare to be good stewards of the manifold graces of god , and so to publick prophecying , for converting soules , here be men sworn in a church-way to feede the flock , and yet they are not pastor● . . here are church-acts and the power of the keyes exercised in preaching , and praying , and discipline , and yet no stewards nor officers of the house who have received the keys to feede . quest. . whether it can be proved from the old testament , that christs visible church was gathered , and being fallen , restored to a visible church-state , by this church-covenant . our reverend bretheren contend that the church was ever gathered by this church-covenant . the author a saith , that the lord received abraham and his children into the church , by a covenant , gen. . . then when they violated the covenant , he renewed this covenant , exod. . . . whence they were called the church in the vvildernesse , acts . . answ. . the covenant , gen. . . is not a church-covenant such as you dreame off . . that covenant is the covenant of grace , made with all the people of the jewes , yea , with children of eight dayes old , v. . i will establish my covenant betwixt me and thee , and thy seed after thee in their generations , for an everlasting covenant , to be a god , to thee , and to thy seed . your covenant is not made with infants , for to you infants are not members of the church visible , none are in your church-covenant , but believers , of whose sound conversion you are satisfied in conscience : . this is the everlasting covenant made with job , melchisedech and many believers ; not in church-state , as you grant , your church-covenant made with a visible church , is no everlasting covenant . . infants can make no confession ere they be receied in a visible church . . if by this covenant abrahams house was made a visible church and all his children circumcised , then every family in the new testament professing the faith and covenant made with abraham , and baptised as abrahams children were circumcised , are the visible church , and the place is for us . . abraham and his house before this , when they were first called out of aegypt , were a church of called ones professing the faith of the messiah to come a . the lord had a church visible , before the renewing of the covenant at mount sinai , exod. . even in aegypt and when he brought them first out of that land of bondage . jerem. . , . and before this they did celebrate the passover , the very night , that they came out of egypt , exod. . and therefore it is false , that for that covenant renewed , exod. . they are called the church in the vvildernesse , all the forty yeares that they were in the wildernesse , they were the church in the vvildernesse , the apology b and c author of the church-covenant and manuscript d alledge deut. . . yee stand all of you this day before the lord , & c. v. . that thou mightest enter in covenant with the lord thy god , and the oath which the lord thy god maketh with thee , v. . that he may establish thee to day a people to himselfe . hence they argue , that which maketh a society a people to god , to serue him in all his ordinances , that is that whereby a society is constituted in a church-state ; but by a covenant , god maketh a society a people to god , to serve him in all his ordinances ; ergo. now that those were a true visible church they prove , though the word say they had eyes and see not , &c. yet they were not in a carnall estate , but only dull and slow of hearkening , to discerne sundry gracious dispensations , which sinfull defects were in the lords apostles , mat . . dull and slow of heart , for this was the generation which was not excluded out of canaan , for their unbeliefe , whose carcasses fell not in the wildernesse , and they were now within the space of a moneth or thereabout , to enter into the promised land , deut. . . and it was they who entred by faith , and subdned kingdomes , and kept their children poore and constant in gods worship all the dayes of josuah . . it is true ( say they ) a god entered also into a covenant with their fathers , yeares before , but not till he had humbled them to a conscionable ( though a legall ) feare of his great name ; and even some of them also ( it may be ) remembred that they were borne under the covenant of grace , from the loynes of abraham , though needfull it was that god should enter with them into a new covenant , and lead them from the law to christ , because they had so long degenerated from the spirit and wayes of abraham , during their abode in egypt , exod. . , . answ. this place maketh both against the constitution of a visible church , and against the church-oath framed by cu● brethren , therefore once , for all , it must be vindicated ; and . i answer , the swearing of a covenant in truth by sound faith putteth person● in state of membership , with the invisible and true body of christ ; it is true , but not in the state of a church as visible , and therefore the major of the first syllogisme it false , it is one thing to be a member of the church as true , and of the people internally in covenant with god , or a iew in the heart ; and another thing to be in covenant externally and a member of the visible-church , to be borne a jew and circumcised , and to professe the doctrine of moses his law did formally make persons members of the jewish visible church , though they should never sweare this covenant , as many died in egypt , and lived and died members of the jewish church , and did eate the passover , and were circumcised , whose carcasses fell in the wildernesse , because of their murmuring , these did never sweare , neither this covenant , deut. . nor the covenant exod. . . here is a people in carnall estate and cannot be a covenanted , and churched society of saints , for v. . the lord objecteth to them habituall hardnesse . . the great temptations that thine eyes have seene , the signes and these great miracles . . yet the lord hath not given you an heart to perceive , and eyes to see and eares to heare 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to this same day ; this is an habituall blindnesse , propagated from fathers to sonnes as ez● . . . they and their fathers have rebelled against mee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 even to the body of this day . jerem. . . and jeremy . . we have sinned we and our fathers from our youth to this day . now this is not the state of the disciples , mar. . for christ is not judging them of their state , as if they were yet carnall , but of their faithlesse actions , in some particular : when they wanted bread , they distrusted the lord , when i brake the five loaves amongst many thousands , how many baskets took yee up ? christ rebuketh them , that they were yet hardened , notwithstanding some great miracles which might have induced them to believe he would furnish them with bread , but this people was hardened , ( i meane not of them all , but of the greatest part ) against all the meanes of grace , though moses , by a synecdoche , mention only signes , temptations and miracles , yet he understandeth and meaneth no lesse , then they were disobedient to all gods dispensation of meanes , since the time that god first sent moses to pharaoh , and preached the covenant to them , exod. . , , . exod. . , . and therefore nameth he pharaoh and egypt with a note of universality , yee have seen all which the lord did to egypt , and to pharaoh and therefore this is an universall habituall hardnesse , and cannot be their infirmity . . this is his expression in the like stile , ez● . . . esa. . . . mat. . . this interpretation of our brethren doth but helpe arminians , our divines say against it , a iunius , god ( saith he ) gave not an heart , cum fructu , with fruite , to observe what you heard and saw , b amesius hence proveth , that they were not converted , and that they wanted sufficient grace c piscator d calvin hence prove that many are externally called , who are never converted , yea a papist as e cajetan , and f abulensis , carnalis itaque manifestatur hic populus , arminians as these at dort g vorstius h grevinchovius i episcopius k are of mind , that such places as this hinder not , but all have sufficient grace , if they would believe : so doe the socinians as the catechis . l of racovia m socinus , n edward poppius , and our brethren by it will prove all these jewes to be in the state of regeneration . . the author of o the church-covenant saith , they were generally a generation of believers , but this covenant is made universally with all , as is cleare , it is made with israel , captaines , tribes , officers , little ones , vvives , children , strangers , the absents , and these who are not borne , v. . , , , . now i aske , if all these were satisfied in their consciences , of one anothers salvation , as our p author requireth , in fit materialls of a visible church ; it was impossible , ergo , this is not the church-covenant of converted persons , knowne to the conscience of moses , to be converted . . moses saith expresly of the same generation , ch . . . that when they were come to the holy land , they would serve other gods , and provoke god unto wrath . and of that same generation god saith , v. . for i know their imaginations , which they goe about even now before i have brought them unto the land which i sware ; this was ( as you say ) about a moneth before their entry to the holy land. . i know thy rebellion and thy stiffe-necke ( saith moses ) behold while i am yet alive , this day , ye have been rebellious against the lord , how much more then after my death ? were they all then a generation , who by faith subdued kingdomes ? surely this was but verified in their holy judges , like ioshuab , and some few others ; it is true they did not prosessedly in ioshuabs daies make defection , yet they were not all renewed , ( as our brethren say ) for ioshuab saith ▪ ▪ ch . . . put away the strange gods , which your fathers served in the other side of the flood , and in egypt , and serve the lord. v. . now therefore put away the strange gods , which are amongst you . and that song of moses , ch . . was made for the conviction of the present generation . ch . . , , , . now in this song much is said of corrupting themselves , serving idols , forgetting of the rocke , and father who begate them , their sacrificing to devils , and therefore such were not generally such as subdued kingdomes by fath , and by faith entered into canaan , as yee say . and so also ( say we ) our churches under the new testament , though consisting of a mixed multitude , are rightly constituted , and true visible churches ; therefore this covenant is not the formall being and essence of a church . and what sort of people were they when the lord covenanted with them in hore● , exod. . a generation who grieved the lords spirit , tempted him in the wildernesse , offered to stem moses , committed idolatry , would appoint themselves a captaine to returne backe to egypt , lusted in the wildernesse , distrusted the lord , and could not enter in through unbeliefe , and their carcasses fell in the wildernesse , and three and twenty thousand were slaine for fonnication . and therefore there is no ground that moses first or last made a church covenant onely with some selected and choice persons , partakers of the heavenly calling , heires annexed with christ , kings , and priests unto god , for all promiscuously were the materials of this church ; yea those , who were not borne , and the absents , deut. . . yee stand this day , all of you before the lord your god , your captaines of your tribes , you elders , and your officers , with all the men of israel . v. . your little ones , your wives , and the stranger that is within thy gate , from the h●wer of wood , to the drawer of water . v. . that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god , &c. now were moabites and amonites made members of the iewish church , and all the strangers ? then they must enter into the temple ; how then are they forbidden to enter into the congregation of the lord , to the tenth generation ? you admitted not to your church covenant in new england all professours , here none are excepted ; this covenant is made with absents , and those who are not yet borne ; now those who are not personally present , and those who are not yet come into the world , can make no restipulation of a covenant with god , nor can be the fellow members of the church , except you make persons invisible to be visible members of a visible church . . there is farre lesse ground to say , that because they had degenerated from the spirit and waies of abraham , by idolatry , it was fit that god should renew a covenant with this generation , and so make them a visible church ; for this is as fitting to say , a sicke man in whom there is a living soule , is made a living man by the entring of a new living soule in his body , for before this covenant the people was the church visible in the wildernesse ; the renewing of a covenant may quicken a decaying life of god in some , but it cannot give the being , and essentiall forme of a visible church , to that which before was a visible church . . papists would be glad that we should put this in print , that there is a time when god hath no visible church on earth at all , bellarmin , stapleton , pererius , and others lay this upon us , but unjustly . it would gratifie arminians as a episcopius b the remonstrantes in their confession , c iacobus arminius . and the socinians , such as d theophilus nicolaides , ( e ) smalcius , f and ostorodius , to say that christ may be a king and head , a husband and redeemer , and yet have neither subjects , members , spouse , nor redeemed people , and that it may fall out that christ have no church on earth ; for the laying hold on the covenant giveth being and life to the church , as the body of christ and his true spouse , as well as it giveth being to the visible church , according to ou● brethrens doctrine , and if this covenant cease , there is not a church of christ on earth . . we have heard nothing here as yet , but the covenant of grace , and no church-covenant . but saith the authour of the church-covenant , ( g ) though it be indeed the covenant of grace , and made principally with god ; it followeth not hence , that it is not a covenant of the members amongst themselves , for the covenant of god tyeth us to duties to our neighbour , and to watchfulnesse , and edification one of another , levit. . deut. . . the neglect whereof in the matter of achan , brought sinne on all the congregation , josh. . yea it tieth us to duties to children not yet borne , who shall after become members of the church , when iehojadah made a covenant betwixt the king and the people ; it was but a branch of the lords covenant , obliging the king to rule in the lord , and the people to obey in god. answ. . but if particular duties to our brethren bind us by a new church-covenant , because gods covenant commandeth these duties , then because gods covenant commandeth sobriety toward our selves , and righteous dealing toward our brethren , there is required a selfe-covenant towards your selves , for temperance and sobriety toward your selves , as there is required a church-covenant to binde you to duties to those who are in church membership with you , this no man can say , nor can severall duties require severall covenants . . it is true when we enter into covenant with god , we sweare duties to all to whom we are obliged , but then we are made members of the visible church , before we sweare this church-covenant ; and this is , as if abraham were made a living man before he have a reasonable soule , and as if abraham were israel his father , before israel be abraham his sonne , for if abraham be in-churched when he did sweare the covenant of grace , ( as the authour granteth ) then he must be a member of a visible church , while as yet there is not a visible church ; to which abraham is tied ; i deny not but israel may sweare obedience to all gods covenant , and all duties therein , and that he may sweare also in particular , to performe all duties to abraham his father , in another oath , but that he cannot enter in the state of relation of sonneship to his father , while he sweare that oath in particular , is a dreame which hardly can be conceived . . the peoples finne in not warning achan was a finne against a duty of the covenant , exacting obedience of all in brotherhead , though not in a church-state , levit. . . and iob and his friends who were members of no visible church , ( as you say ) did performe this , one to another , iob . . iob . . iob. . . . the covenant that jehojadah made betwixt the king and the people , will prove the lawfullnesse of a covenant to performe church-duties , beside the generall covenant of grace , which we deny not , but doth not prove , that a covenant to church-duties is the essentiall forme of church-membership , and the onely way , by divine precept , of entring persons in a church-state ; for persons already in church-state may , upon good reasons , sweare a covenant to these duties , yet are they not of new inchurched to that congregation , whereof they were members before . their next principall argument as ( a ) the apology saith , if a church-covenant be the essentiall forme of a church , as a stock of saints is the materiall cause , then the church-covenant is necessary to the being of the church , and it is that wherby ecclesia integra constituitur , collapsa restituitur , & quo sublato ecclesia dissolvitur & destituitur , that is , it is by this covenant a church is instituted in its integrity , and when it is fullen , it is restored to its integrity , and when this covenant ●eas●th , the church is no longer a visible church . answ. when a church falleth it is not restored to the state of a visible church by circumcision , and yet circumcision is given as a signe of a covenant betwixt god and his church , gen. . . nor is a church restored by baptisme , or baptizing over againe , and yet baptisme is that whereby we are entered members of the visible church . . when persons faile in omitting church duties ; i thinke they faile against your church-oath , yea when they fall into any sinne that may be a scandall to others , yea the finne of adultery , yet if they repent and heare ●he church , they are not excommunicated , neither doe they ●ose the right of church-membership and right to the seales of the covenant , nor is it needfull they be restored by renewing a church-covenant , but we desire to heare from gods word proofes of the singular vertues of this church-covenant . . discipline is by all divines thought necessary to the well being of a church , but not to the simple being thereof , and for this we apeale to the learned parker who denieth a discipline to be an essentiall note of the visible church , and citeth b cartwright for this , and therefore saith that calvin , bortrandus de logues , mornaeus , martyr , marloratus , galusius , and beza omitteth discipline amongst the notes of the church . the apology addeth c if the nationall church of the jewes was made a nationall church by that covenant , and therby all the synagogues had church-fellowship one with another in the temple , then the congregationall church is made a visible church by that covenant . . also the fallen church of the jewes was restored to a church-state ( say they ) by renewing a covenant with the lord in the dayes of asah & hezekiah , and these who fell to judah chron. . . are commanded not to stiffen their necks , or ( as in the originall ) to give their hand unto the lord , that so they might enter into the sanctuary chron. . & . answ. is it credible or possible , that all the synagoues of so many hundred thousand people , as were in the . tribes were all satisfied in conscience , anent the regeneration one of another● and this is required of you to the right swearing of a church covenant , else how could they in the oath joyne themselves to all israel , as to a generation of saints ? ●● israel before this oath , was circumcised , and had eaten the passoyer , and so was a visible church before , yea then god had no church visible before this oath , which is against gods promise made to david , and his seed , psal. . . ● . also in abijahs dayes judah was the true church of god , chron. . . and now y●t think to withstand the kingdome of the lord in the hands of the sonnes of david . . but as for us , the lord is our god , and we have not forsaken him. . the inchurching of members is a church-action , as all the church casteth out , so all the church receiveth in , as you a say , but the putting of iudah and the strangers of israel to this oath , was by the kings authority , who convened them , . chron. . . and asah gathered all judah , and benjamin , and the strangers with them , and they were compelled by the royall sanction of a civill law to this covenant , v. . and they entred into covenant , &c. . that whosoever would not seek the lord god of israel , should be put to death , whether small or great , man or woman . . how were they all in , conscience satisfied anent the regeneration one of another , . being such a number of iudah , benjamin and strangers out of ephraim , manasse and simeon , v. . were . . gathered together and meet but one day ? . this covenant obliged young ones , your covenant seekes no church duties of little ones , for to you they are not members of a visible church . . the place , chron. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yeild to god as servants b iunius , humbly imploring his help , as the same phrase is lament . . . we have served the egyptians 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the assyrians to be satisfied with bread , neither doth the text say in infinitive , that yee may enter into the sanctuary , as if a renewed covenant were a necessary preparation , before they could enter into the sanctuary ; but it is set downe as an expresse commandement of the king 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 enter yee into his sanctuary , and there is not a word of a covenant in the text , but only of the peoples keeping the passover , and though there had been a covenant ( of which the spirit of god , speaking so much of iosiah's zealous reformation , would not have been silent ) it is not to a purpose iudah was a visible church , before hezekiah wrote letters to them , to ●ome to jerusalem ; to keepe the passover , as is cleare ch . . . they begun to sanctifie the house , the first day of the first moneth , and all the congregation worshipped . . and hezekiah rejoyced at their zeale , and so there was a visible church , and the passover was eaten the . day according to the law , also in all covenants renewed by the people of the jewes , the matter was done suddenly , and all convened in a day , when a voluntary preparation , and evidenced regeneration , could not be evidenced to the satisfaction of the conscience of all the people ; nor can this preparation be called jewish and temporary , for it is as morall to all who sweare churches duties one to another , as the covenant it selfe , which our brethren say , is of perpetuall equity . and all these may be answered to the covenant , neh. . where there is no insinuation of church duties , but in generall . . yo walke in gods law , and to observe and ●●e all the commandements of the law , and not to marry strange ●vives . the apology b saith it is to no purpose that the people . chro , . was a church before this covenant , because the place is not alledged to prove that a people are made a church by entering into covenant with god , but to prove that a decayed church is restored by a covenant , now the church at this time was corrupted with idols , sodomy , &c. answ. . yet it proveth well that this covenant is not the formall cause of a visible church ; for a visible church hath not its formall being , before it hath its formall cause . . the convening of all the people to sweare , is an act of the church visible , now nothing can have operations , before it have the formall cause . . the author saith , who knoweth that all the tribes of israel were yet in covenant with god , from the dayes of their fathers ? answer ; i think that it is easily knowne , that they used and exercised many church actions also , and so were a church visible of a promiscuous multitude , and it is know●n that none were excluded from this covenant , none selected and chosen out as regenerates , who onely were thought fit to sweare this covenant , and so that it is not your church-covenant that all were forced to , and commanded under pain● of death , to attest . our brethren , as first a our author , secondly b the apology , thirdly the author of the church-covenant , repose much on isai. . . where the stranger is joyned to the lord , in a personall covenant , for his own salvation , for so the text saith v. . . yet are they not joyned to the visible church , while they lay hold on the covenant , that is , to sweare a church-covenant , now that they are not members of the visible church is cleare f●r deut. . , , . the moabit , ammonite , though never so holy , cannot be members of the visible church , because they are discharged , to enter into the congregation of the lord. . they complain● that they are not of the visible church . the lord hath separated me from his people . . adjoyning of them to the visible church is promised ; as a reward of their faith and obedience , v. . even a name in gods house , hence it is cleare , persons under the new testament have a promise and propbecy th●● if they be inward●s joyned by faith god shall give them a name of church-membership amongst his people , by swearing a church-oath , or if they lay hold on the covenant of the church . ans. . there is no churching here of strangers and eunuches by church-oath , but as c calvin , musculus , gualter , d iunius , observe , the eunuch and stranger are comforted that under the messi●hs kingdome , they shall have no cause to complaine of their ceremoniall separation from gods people and the want of some ceremoniall priviledges of that kind , because the stranger and eunuch shall have . v. . an everlasting roome , and honor in gods hous● , and the son of the stranger a place in the catholick church v. . . so being , they believe and obey . but . v. . to lay hold on my covenant is not to lay hold on the church-covenant ; give us precept , promise , practise , or one syllable in gods word for this interpretation . . v. . to take hold on the covenant is to believe the covenant , and not to sweare a vocall oath . . to lay hold on the covenant , saith e musculus , is to keep the covenant , and not to depart from it , to live according to it , f saith iunius ) and to rest on god , to doe what is gods will commanded in the covenant ( saith ) g calvin , and h gualter ) and so all who spake sense on that place , and never one dreamed of a church-covenant before . . god saith of it ( my covenant ) there is no reason then to call it a church-covenant here more then ierom. . . . psal. . . isai. . . ierem. . . zach. . . laying hold on the covenant is not an externall , professed , vocall , visible and church embracing of the covenant , for then the lord promiseth to the eunuch the name of a faithfull visible fellow member , in a congregation , if he shall lay hold on the covenant , and sweare it in the church assembly , this church-swearing is not rewarded so , for how is it proved that a name , even an everlasting name , better then the names of sonnes and daughters , is the name of a fellow-member in some obscure congregation or parish ? is this better then the name of a borne jew , who was also a member of the visible church , and if he believed in christ , had also the everlasting name of a member of the jewish church ? surely there is no ground for this in gods word , the everlasting name must be some spirituall remembrance and some invisible honour beyond the externall honour of being named the sonne or daughter of a jew , and by what warrant also of gods word is gods holy mountaine and his house of prayer . v. . which in the new testament can no more be literally expounded , then offering of burnt offerings by what warrant is this called a parochiall visible congregation , where visible saints meets in one materiall house ordinarily , and in one visible church-way ? the house of prayer there , is joh. . expounded of the typicall temple , which spiritually did typifie christs body , as he expoundeth it himselfe , ioh. . , , . deare brethren doe no violence to gods word . . there is no ground that the eunuch and stranger had no other complaint , but want of visible membership : for his laying hold on the lords sabbaths saith the contrary , and though he should complain of that , it is a small comfort promised , th●● he shall be a member of a visible congregation , which membership many iudasses and hypocrites injoy also . . though there were a visible church-membership here promised ( as no intepreter that ever yet saw it , but your selves ) yet it should onely follow , before heathen , who are come to age , be baptized , and so inchurched , they should externally lay hold on a professed covenant , and so , that they might be members of the invisible church , before they be members of the visible church , which is much for our baptisme-covenant , and nothing for your church-covenant . . church-membership , by your exposition , is promised to none , but these , who inwardly by true faith are joyned to the covenant ; then all church-acts performed by pastors and professors not converted , though they proceed , clave no● errante , following christ his rule are null , and no bapti●ing , no binding in heaven , for a promise conditionall is no promise ( say reason and lawyers ) where the condition is not fulfilled . the author of the church-covenant a citeth that of ez●k . . . i entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest min● , eze. . . i will cause you to passe under the rod ; here is a covenant , not of a person , but of the whole house of israel , v. . . this covenant is called a band , and junius observeth well , takes from shepheards , who went amongst their sheep with a rod , and selected and poynted out such as were for the lords sacrifice , lev. . . ergo , under the new testament , men enter not into the church , hand over head , but they passe under the rod of due tryall , and then , being ●ound meet , are inchurched . answ. he entered into covenant with hierusalem , dying in her owne blood , v. . v. . your covenant is made with a people washed and converted . . all are taken in promiscuously in this covenant externally , good and evill , who prospered to a kingdome , and were renowned amongst the heathen , v. . . your church covenant is of persons who passe under the rod of pro●ation , and passe for sound converts . the other place is not to a purpose , for god is not speaking of gathering his people to a visible church , but as a calvin b polanus , c iunius , god is meeting with the peoples wicked conclusion , who said , v. . they were banished and cap●ives mixed amongst the nations , and so free from gods cor●ecting rod , or band of discipline , and god saith , and i will make you to passe under the rod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and i will bring you under the ●and of my covenant ; the word is also psal. . . and it is true ●hat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth a staffe and a rod , prov. . . but it signifieth also a kings scepter , gen. . . but the band of the covenant signifieth no union of a visible church , nor is the lord in that place promising the mercy of a gathered church , but by the contrary , he threatneth an evill , as v. . and i will bring you unto the wildernesse of the people , and there will i plead with you face to face , . like as i peaded with your fathers . and i will cause you to passe under the rod , &c. to select you out from amongst the heathen , as sheep for sacrificing , as the next verse . . and i will purge out from amongst you the re●●lls , &c. this place is violently brought to witnesse unjustly : and what though god would have them tryed , who were taken under his covenant of protection ? it should be the covenant of grace , and not a church-covenant , for he meaneth no such thing . they alleadge , jerem. . . and in those dayes , and at that time , the children of israel shall come , they and the children of judah together , saying let us be joyned to the lord , in a perpetuall covenant , that shall not be forgotten . answ. . israel and judah together cannot be a parochiall congregation ; nor . can sion be a parish church ; nor . is the church-covenant , from which a man is loosed , when upon good warrants , and the consent of the congregation , he removeth cut of that church to another , a perpetuall covenant that shall never be forgotten ; for eternity is proper to the covenant of grace betwixt god and man , jerem. . , , . jerem. . . isal. . . isai. . . isai. . . and there is no covenant betwixt mortall men , who shall d●e , an eternall covenant . the author a saith , there is nothing more plaine then isai. . . one shall say , i am the lords ; and another shall call himselfe by the name of jacob ; and another shall subscribe with his hand , and sirname himselfe by the name of israel : these words are so plaine as nothing can be more plaine . answ. this is a cleare place , that under the m●ssiah all people shall professe themselves in covenant with god , and the children of god and the church , and b calvin citeth psal. . . and of sion it shall be said , this and this man was borne in her . but this is not plaine at all , that these professe themselves sworne members of a particular parish ; yea , the contrary is most plaine , that they shall call themselves by the name of jacob and israel ; that is , children of the whole visible church , for jacob and israel is not restricted to one particular congregation . before the peoples captivity , saith musculus , c the names of b●●l and idoll gods sounded in their mouthes , but then they shall professe the true god , and that they are his people . now gods covenant is made principally , not with one single congregation , not is the blood that sealeth the covenant shed for one single congregation ; nor are the promises of the covenant , yea and amen is christ , for one single flocke onely , and primò & principaliter , but for the whole catholike church , and therefore they shall name themselves christians . the author addeth , d every church is christs married spouse , united to christ by covenant , the violation of marriage is the violation of a covenant ; yea , and there is a marriage betwixt the church - members , isa. . . as a young man marrieth a virgin , so shall thy sonnes marry thee . answ. a marriage betwixt christ and his church we grant and betwixt christ and every particular soule beleeving in him , in respect of the love . . mutuall interest and claime one to another , cant. . . and what holdeth betwixt christ and a church catholick , or particular , holdeth also betwixt christ and every soule , and to extort a church covenant betwixt christ and a particular soule , who may be and often is a beleever , & yet out of church-state , from the borrowed phrase of marriage , is ●oo violent blooding of comparisons ; and therefore from marriage belonging to the catholike church principally , how can a marriage visible be concluded ? . the sonne● are the whole church of the gentiles ; too large a p●rish incolaeterrae , saith musculus , b and excellently calvin , c christ so is the husband of his church , that he marrieth upon his church all people and nations which are gathered to her , because while the church wanteth children , she is as it were a widow ; now this is nothing for a church-covenant . thirdly , there is a relative obligation of mutuall duties of love betwixt fellow members of a visible church , and betwixt sonnes and the mother congregation ; but this is first done in baptisme expresly ; secondly , in our comming to be members of such a congregation , but the person is before a member of the visible church . the author addeth d if dissolving a covenant be that which dissolveth a church , as zach. . . . then the making of a covenant is that which constituteth a church ; if dissipating of stones unbuild the house , then compacting of them together doth build the house ; but the breaking of the covenant under the name of breaking of the two staves , beauty and bands , z●ch . . is the inchurching of the iewes , ergo ; answ. the dissolving and breaking of the covenant of grace , and the removing of the candlestick , and the word of god , revel . . . am●s . , . taketh away the being of a church , both as a true church , and as a true visible church ; and of such a breaking of the covenant doth the lord speake zach. . v. . and i said i will not feed you ; that which dieth , let it die ; and that which perisheth , let it perish , &c. and it taketh away the union of brotherhead amongst the members , verse , . so the thing in question is not hence concluded ; for the question is , if a church-covenant make a church as visible , and the breach of that church-covenant unmake and dissolve a church as visible , and this place proveth what maketh and unmaketh a church simply as a church , not as visible and under that reduplication . quest. . whether by testimonies from the new testament , and good reasons , a church-covenant can be evinced . our author e alleageth , cor. . . i have espoused you to one husband , that i may present you as a chaste virgin to christ ; so also the apologie , f this was nothing else but the planting of the church at corinth ; if you say this paul did while he converted them to the grace of christ by his ministery ; if this were true , saith he , then should christ have many thousands , hundreds , and scores at least of spouses in one church , which we thinke inconvenient . secondly , it is plaine he speaketh of the whole church as of one spouse , and as it were one chaste uirgin ; which argueth , he perswaded them all ( as the friend of the bridegroome ) to give up themselves with one accord as one man into one body , to the fellowship and worship of the lord jesus . answ. it is a weake cause , that hangeth upon the untwisted thred of a misapplied metaphor . for . espoufing into christ in the text is opposed to being deceived and corrupted from the simplicity that is in christ , as evah was deceived by the serpent , and opposed to the receiving of another spirit , and another gospell ; so then to be corrupted from the simplicity that is in christ , and to receive another gospell , must have this meaning ; as evah was deceived by the serpent , so i feare that your simple minds be un-churched and loosed from the visible church of corinth , and that you forget your covenant , wherein ye sweare to take christ for your husband , and me for the friend of the bridegroome , and that you be remisse in the duties of externall discipline ; and church-fellowship , and in excommunicating scandalous persons , &c. a● brethren , let not our lords word be thus tortured and wrested . . he expoundeth this espoufing , the presenting of them to christ in the day of god , as a washed , redeemed , and saved wife of christ , and not of their church continuing in visible society . yea , all interpreters , ancient and moderne , as augustine , theophylact , chrysostome , oecumenius , cyrillus , ambrose , our latter , calvin , bullinger , beza , pom●ran , pellicanus , sarcerius , marlorat , paraphrastes , erasmus ; and papists , aquinas , haymo : give this sense . paul as the friend to the bridegroome finding the corinthians despising him , and in love with false teachers , grew jealous of them for his lords cause , that though he had betrothed them to christ , as a virgin hand fastned by promise to a husband , left they should be drawne away to other lovers , by the cunning of false teachers as evah was led from her lord , by subtill satan . . though he speake of them , as of one body , spouse , virgin , how doth it follow that he speaketh of them , as of a ministeriall and a parochiall body ? for the marriage , the betrothing to christ , and the acts contrary , the receiving of another spirit , the corrupting of their simple minds , are acts altogether spirituall , internall , invisible , and acts of a church , as a true church , & the contrary are acts of a false church , as false , and not acts of a church as visible , in a visible meeting , in a visible external act of marrying , nor is their any insinuation , that paul feared the dissolving of the church oath and visible order of government . . it is not inconvenient , that there be many spouses , as in every true beleever , there be many single acts of marriage love , and of beleeving , and so of taking christ for their husband and lord. a visible church is the house of god , tim. . . the temple of god , rev. . . and yet every beleever is a temple , cor. . . and every one his house ; seeing he dwelleth in them by saith , ephes. . . also if this be a good reason , he speaketh of them all , as of one chaste virgin . ergo , he speaketh of them all , as of one visible parochiall church . then brethren , because christ speaketh , joh. . . of the whole church of the new testament , as of one bride of himselfe as the bridegroome , and of the whole catholique church , that christ hath washen and redeemed , as of one glorious virgin , ephes. . . and of the one lambes wife , revel . . , . it shall follow that the catholique church is one visible church , and so one parochial congregation , for you mock at a catholike visible church , ( as your authour doth ) who calleth it a a chimaera , though without reason . . and certainely twenty beleevers in one house and so twenty hundred convened in one , yet out of church-state , are a body married upon christ in respect of his spirit , and their faith laying hold on him , as on their husband ; yea , and the church of corinth , as saints by calling ; and considered without the respect of a visible church-fellowship , is more properly christ● wife , and christ their husband , then they can be called christs wife , for an externall communion of a visible profession , which is common to them with many repro●ates ; yea , there is no ground at all to call a company , because of their visible profession , christs wife , no● doth gods word speake so ; the converted by prophets not in office are most properly his wife ; and these may say , we have betrothed you to christ ; and be not deceived nor corrupted from the simplicity that is in christ jesus . hence that place also is not for our brethren , cor. . . the apostle thanketh god for the corinthians professed subjection to the gospel , in their liberall contribution . then ( saith the apologie a ) here is a church covenant ; but if this professed subjection be a ground of a church-covenant , the corinthians extended this charity to the poore a● hierusalem , as the churches of macedonia did also , then many particular congregations are church-members in church-fellowship , with the church of ierusalem ; for they professed this subjection to the gospell toward the distressed at ierusalem , and so corinth exercised church-acts toward other churches then their owne ; independencie by this must fall . secondly , to relieve the poore is a duty of christian charity , common to beleevers in church-state , or not in church-state , how then can it prove a duty of church-state ? the b apology addeth , hebr. . the hebrews are commanded not to forsake the assembly of themselves together , as the manner of some is ; ergo , they convened by mutuall consent , and so by covenant . answ. doe not infidels and indians , as you teach c come to your assemblies to heare the vvord , and partake of the prayers and praises of the church ? but ye will not say , they are to come to those assemblies by a church-covenant . secondly , what though they intended assemblies by consent , and tacite covenant ? it will not follow therefore by your covenant , which is the formall cause of a visible church , and this place proveth nothing , cor. . . the churches of macedonia first gave themselves to the lord , and then to us , therefore they were in-churched , by way of covenant to our ministery , so a the discourse ; but these churches gave themselves to god ( in that dutie of charity ) and then to us , the exhorters to that charity , and the conveyers thereof to ierusalem ; then the church of corinth was married on god , on paul , yea and on the churches of jerusalem , for the author maketh this mariage-love , and so jerusalem is erected a mother church , and corinth subjected unto her ; for these who give almes , as becometh saints , are said to give their heart to god , and to the poore , as isai. . . to draw out their heart to the poore , and that because of their chearefull and compassionate giving . our author b saith john baptist repelled scribes and pharisees , and the prophane multitude , from his baptisme , luke . . mat. . . and this was godly zeale , for they were a generation of vipers , luk. . . . and therefore they were not meet for baptisme , which is a baptisme of repentance , luke . . philip baptised not the eunuch while he made profession of faith . these and the like the author and our brethren bring to prove , that men are not inchurched but by confession covenant-wayes , and also to prove that the matter of the church should be saints by calling , hence c the apology citeth iustin martyr d who saith three things were required of such ▪ as were to be received into the church . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that they be dedicated to god as members of their church . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or regeneration , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith or a confission of faith and. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is a promise or covenant to live according to the rule of the gospell ; and the author saith e there were three questions prop●unded to these who were received by baptisme , abrenuncias ? abrenuncio . credis ? credo . spondes ? spon●eo , f zipperus the author saith hath more of this g . answ. . yee read not in the word that iohn baptist rejected any from his baptisme , who desired to be baptized , yea by the contrary , luk. . . it is said , and all they that heard him , and the publicans justified god , being baptized with the baptisme of john. v. . but the pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsell of god , against themselves , being not baptized of john : then the pharisees and lawyers refuse to be baptized , and mat. . . then went out unto him , jerusalem and all judea , and all the regions round about jerusalem , confessing their sins , but when he saw many of the pharisees and sadduces come to his baptisme , he sayd unto them . o generation of vipers , &c. but that he baptized , them by the same sermon , is cleare , for v. . he exhorteth them to repentance , and v. . dehorteth them from a● hypocriticall profession , v. . he threatneth judgement to them , and v. . saith , i did baptize you with water , that ( you ) is relative , to these whom he called a generation of vipers , and includeth them , for there is no ground in the text to exclude them , and luk. . . and he said to the multitude , that came forth to be baptized , o generation of vipers , & c. v. . and when all the people was baptized , &c. iesus also was baptized . it is true , all that were baptized , and come to age confessed their sins , but they were entered members of the christian church by professing the covenant in baptisme , and their covenant was no church-covenant , entering them members of a parochiall church oath , but entered them members of the whole visible church , and they were not tyed to such and such church-acts of prophecying and judiciall binding and loosing ; also could they all be satisfied in conscience of one anothers regeneration , for they did not meete frequently together to prayer and spirituall conference ? . how could all jerusalem and all judea , ma. . , . and all the regions round about , and all the people baptized , luk. . . all sweare a church-covenant , and give a particular confession of their sinnes to the satisfaction of iohn baptistes conscience ? yea iohn saith expresly of this visible baptized church , mat. . . . that they were some of them fruitles trees to be hewen down , and some of them ch●ffe to be burnt with unquenchable fire , so the materials of this baptized church are not visible saints , and lawyers hold of the covenant , as our brethren say . . the eunuch coming to jerusalem to worship , ( which is an act of a church-member ) was in church-state before he was baptized , and a proselite . . it is true that you cite out of iustin martyr , but you omit a word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( saith martyr ) a baptisme-covenant and professed by the heathen come to age , of which also onely and of no other , iustine martyr speaketh , we wilingly acknowledge , but by that covenant they were received unto the catholick visible church , and not unto a single independent church only . . these questions were propounded to the aged before they were baptized , and reason that heathen be tryed , before they be baptized , and in this we agree with the synod of a heidelburge , b in concione lugdunensi against papiste , and in synods parisiensi c and what mr. parker d saith further of this kind may be admitted , if well expounded . . zipperus helpeth us , consuetum est , &c. he thinketh it an ancient custome in the primitive church , that before any were received into the church they should give a confession , either themselves , or ( saith he ) parents and tutors , and so he acknowledgeth that infants in baptisme were made members of the church , though they could not sweare this church-covenant , nor give evidences of their conversion , and this is acknowledged by all the reformed churches , of france , germany , holland , helvetia , poland , england , scotland , &c. the apology e citeth , acts . . and of the rest durst no man joyne himselfe to them , greece , durst not be glewed to them , a word of marriage covenant , mat. . . & acts . . saul desired to be glewed to them , the former word must note some voluntrary act of joyning to the visible church , and that different from the act of conversion , for otherwayes it is grosse armimainsme , to say that our conversion dependeth upon our daring , or not daring , or that it is suspended upon an act of our freewill , for it dependeth upon the omnipotent working of the grace of god ; and saul acts . . though converted , yea and baptized , yet was he not received into the churchfellowship , untill they were better satisfied of his spirituall estate , by barnabas , hence it is an error , that to be added to the church is only to be converted to the faith , ergo , a covenant is requisite . answ. how strong is gods truth , brethren , yee make your opinion weake which hangeth upon a grammatication of one borrowed word , none durst joyne mariage-way to the church-visible ; f erasmus , g beza say it is a word translated from trees glewed together , and signifieth neither marriage , nor covenant , and signifieth either naturall or artificiall or morall conjunction , acts . . philip is bidden joyne himselfe to yonder chariot , joyning of chariots is neither by marriage , nor covenant , so is the word , luk. . . . it is not joyned to a visible parish church , but to the whole christian church out of which ananias and saphira were cast . v. . . which made great feare , and made those who were not baptized ( saith c pomeranus ) to feare to joyne to the church of god , and so it behoved to be the unbaptized and unconverted , who were feared , v. . and they were all with one accord , in salomons porch , that is , all the faithfull added to the church , now opposite to these , he saith of the unconverted and not added to the church . v. . and of the ●est , without the church , durst no man joyne himselfe to the church : now this cannot be in a visible society , for then luke should intimate , that the unconverted might have added themselves to the church if they durst , and had not beene stricken with the terror of the miraculous killing of ananias and saphira , now this they could not have done ( as our brethren say ) hand over head , they behoved first to be converted , and testified their conversion by a church oath , nay cajetan a saith well , they durst not haunt their company , they sled from them , and from the apostle peter , as from a man slayer , nor doth the holy ghost ( i thinke ) meane of any church fellowship , he presupposing that they were unconverted , at least our brethren must say this . . it is an unlearned reason that they give to prove , he meaneth not of conversion , for all voluntrary acts supernaturall even of joyning to a visible church and marrying of themselves to christ , and his visible church ( as our brethren say ) are acts wrought by the irresistible , and omnipotent working of gods grace , no lesse then our first conversion ; and to thinke otherwayes of our supernaturall actions , is grosse arminianisme , for so all who have written against arminians as the learned doctor twisse , amesius , pareus , triglandius , have expounded that passage ( it is god who worketh in us both to will and to doe ) so calvin , beza , sibrandus , pareus , ursine , tilenus , bucan , make all the operations of saving grace in conversion , and after conversion , irresistible . and it is knowen how the dominicanes , alvarez , estius , bannes fran. cumel , matthew rspolis , and many of that side hold a predeterminateing operation of grace ad modum causoe physicoe , which beginneth before free will , so that no operations supernaturall , yea nor naturall are suspended upon the liberty of freewill , and they hold againsti pelagianes , and the jesuites , snarez , vasques , valentia , becan , lod. meratius , hyeron . fasolus , did. ruiz ; and if you suspend all voluntrary acts upon the influence of freewill , you follow pelagians , jesuites , socinians , and arminians in that point . . it is true the disciples were affraid to admit saul to their society , and no wonder , for he had not long since made havock of the church ; but. . they did not inchurch him by an oath . . they received him upon the sole testimony of barnabas v. . which order you keepe not , refusing communion to christians of approved piety , and knowen so to you , because they cannot sweare your church covenant . . who they be , who thinke , to be converted to the faith , and to be added to the visible church , to be all one i know not ; our divines never said it . . though all were granted you , they durst not joyne to the apostolick visible church ; ergo , there is a church covenant , it is a great consequent . now i desire to try your reasons for a church covenant . it is not ( saith the apology ) a hearty affection that uniteth church-members in a visible church , for so england and scotland are united , nor . . cohabitation , for papists and protestants may cohabite , and yet they are not of one visible church , nor . meeting in one assembly uniteth not persons together , for infidels and turkes . cor. . may come to church-assemblies , and heare the word , ergo , this union must be as in all bodies , cities , houses , armies , by covenant ; none is made a citizen to have right to the priviledges of the city , but by a covenant , for when one is received a member of an house or of an army , or of any incorporation , 〈◊〉 is by a covenant . answ. . the ennumeration is unsufficient , for the seale of baptisme and a profession of the truth , is that which maketh one a member of the visible church . cor. . . for by one spirit , we are all baptized into one body , and can you deny the covenant , which is sealed in baptisme ? and by this are all the citizens and domesticks inchurched and received into the visible church , and when one removeth from one congregation to another , hee maketh a tacite covenant to serve god in all his ordinances with that new society , but he is not thereby made a member of the visible church ; for that he was before : nor hath hee right to the seales , as they are seales of such a church , but as they are seales of the whole catholick church . the apostles ( saith the a apology ) did two things when they planted churches . they joyned them together in a church covenant . . they constituted elders in every church , acts . what the apostles did , after they converted their hearers , a baptizing , praying for them , laying on of hands , exhorting , inchurching against persecuters , disputing against adversaries , miracles ▪ are acts tending to the good of the church , not acts of planting a church . answ. . the first of these two is in question , we reade not of such a covenant , as our brethren speake of . . converting of soules after the church is constitute , is an adding to the church , and preaching tendeth to this ; the law of the lord converteth , psal. . and when the church is planted , it is not a perfect house , but stones are fitted and laid upon the corner stone dayly . . that the apostles act of planting is conversion and gathering to a visible body by a covenant , we deny ; for planting is an erecting of professors and judges or officer , whether they be converted , or not , so they professe the truth . . arg. all churches ( saith the discourse b ) are confounded , if there be not this covenant to distinguish them , smyrna is not ephesus or thyatira , none of them is laodicea . . every one of them is rebuked , for their own faults . . faith or cohabitation doth not distinguish them . , ergo , this church-covenant only doth distinguish them . answ. particular congregations differ not in essence and nature , as church covenants differ not in nature ; onely they differ in accidents and number , and it is folly to seeke differences , for church covenants make not the difference ; for ● church covenant ia common to them all . . so peter may be rebuked for his fault , and john for his , yet peter and john differ not in nature . the apology c addeth , it is not a covenant simply and is generall , that doth constitute a church , or distinguish it from another , but a covenant with application , or appropriation , to these persons , as in mariage all promise these same duties , yet a covenant applyed to this man , and this woman , maketh this man such a woman● husband , and no other man. answ. if this be all , baptisme and professed faith applied to this man rather then to this , shall as well distinguish persons and churches , as church covenants , so applied . . this is not a good and fit division , so to appropriate this pastor to this flock , as he shall be a pastor to no other people , but to them , and everteth all communion of churches and saints and denieth the use of the seales in this congregation from all members of another congregation whereas ; god hath made him a pastor in relation to the whole visible church on earth , though his labours be tyed to one determinate church ; so papists marry the bishop and his church , hence they thought it unlawsull for a bishop to d mit his church in any case , for a enaristus calleth that spirituall adultery , and we cannot approve of the b councell of antioch , and c sardis , that none can leave his wife , that is , his married church , etiamsi à populis eri● episcopus necessitate adactus ; and they say that d cres●on was condemned in the councell of carthage , for changing his wife , to wit , his church , e and innocentius . saith , the spirituall baend of mariage betwixt a bishop and his church , is stronger , then the mariage-band betwixt a man and his wife ; yea , dominicus a soto f saith , to change churches is against the law of nature , as to change wives ; yea saith innocentius . . g onnipotens deus conjugium quod est inter episcopu● & ecclesiam suo tantum judicio reservavit dissolvendum . . argu. a free people ( saith our author ) h cannot be joyned in a body , but by mutuall consent , as appeareth in all relations , betwixt parents and children , husband and wife , no church ( saith he ) i can take charge of a stranger believer comming from another congregation , unlesse he give himselfe , and offer his professed subjection to the gospell , also it is a part of the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , that every one choose ●his own pastor , rom. . . we are to receive a weake believer ; ergo , he is to offer himselfe to the church and to their order , by covenant . answ. . it is true , the relation of pastor and free people is founded upon a tacite covenant , but this covenant is made in baptisme , for a pastor is a pastor to yound children whom ●he received into covenant , in baptisme , according to that , acts . . feed the flock over which the holy ghost hath made you overseers , now infants are of these , because he is to feed them as a pastor loveing christ his lambes and young ones , no lesse then the aged . . because hee exercised pastorall acts over young ones , when he baptizeth them , yet infants are not under a ministery by a church covenant . . the act of election includeth a tacite promise of subjection to the minister , who is elected , and the pastors acceptation of the church-office includeth a tacite promise to feede that flock , but this is no church-covenant , which i prove by one argument unanswerable . the church-covenant ( say our brethren ) is the formall cause of our churchmembership , and of a visible church , as a reasonable soule is the formall essence of a man , now the covenant that can intervene betwixt a pastor elected , and a people electing , is a posterior and later by nature , then a church-covenant ; for a people is a church , as our brethren teach ) and so constitute in its full power of all church operations , and so hath its entyre essence , and essentiall forme , before they elect a pastor , as a man must be a reasonable man , before he can exercise the second operations , or actus secundos flowing from a reasonable soule . therefore a church and pastor d●e take charge of a stranger comming to the congregation though there be no church-covenant , betwixt the pastor and stranger , for the church covenant is prior to the comming of this stranger and hath already constituted the church in its entyre essence and operations , though no stranger come at all , and though that stranger never covenant to obey the pastor , and the pastor never covenant to take care of that stranger . . whereas it is said , it is a part of the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , that every one choose his own pastor , i see not the truth of this in scripture ; the people hath power to choose , but that is a part of christian liberty in this sense , i see not : the prophets and apostles exercised pastorall acts over many who made not choise of their ministery , yea they preached to them against their will , and paul preached as a pastor to many in corinth , against their will , and a faithfull pastor may preach to many , who never made choise of him for their pastor , and to whom the word is the savour of death unto death , and to whom he hath vengeance in readinesse . . there is no liberty purchased to us by christ , but such as is regulated by gods word , and found reason , a liberty of sole will in embracing or refusing a minister , is licence , not liberty : now in christ , we are called to liberty , not to licence , and if some of a congregation wanting the spirit of discerning upon prejudice , refuse a called pastor , to be their pastor ; yet if the most part of the congregation elect him , he is a pastor to all , and to those who refused him , as christ doth reigne in the word and ministery , over hypocrites , in a congregation , who say in their hearts we will not have this man to reigne over us ; yet here is a ministeriall charge which a pastor hath lawfully over such , as are not willing to submit to that ministery : the power of electing a pastor is not infallible ; what if they or most of them , upon sole groundlesse prejudice , refuse such a man to be their pastor , is he not their pastor because all consent not ? are we to thinke that christ purchased a liberty in his bloud of refusing a called pastor ? nor can we thinke these who taught the doctrine of the nicolaitans in pergamus , and these who held the doctrine of balaam , or that the woman jezebel which called her selfe a prophetesse in thyatira , and seduced the people of god to commit fornication , and to eate things sacrificed to idols , were received in pergamus and thyatira by a church covenant ; nor hath it colour of truth , that the faithfull there were satisfied in conscience , with the conversion of i●zabel , and such as held the doctrine of balaam , and that they consented , and did choose the angell of the congregation of pergamus , and thyatira ( as our brethren speake ) for their pastor , and yet the pastors and church are rebuked for not executing the censures of the church over the followers of balaam , revel . . , . and upon iezabel the false prophetesse ; ergo they are not all such materialls of a visible church , ( as our brethren say ) even saints by calling , and a church doth well take the charge of those , who never offered their professed subjection to christs ordinances , we are not to thinke , that these who called themselves apostles , and yet were lyers , were visible saints approved in the sight of god to the consciences of the church of ephesus , and that such did offer their professed subjection to the angell and church of ephesus , as you teach , yet that church tooke care of them , by the censures of the church , and are commended therefore , revel . . . thou canst not beare them that are evill , and hast tryed them , which say they are apostles , and hast found them liers . if a false teacher shall come to a congregation , and be a hearer for some yeares , and at length fall to , and teach pernitious doctrine , will not the church censure him , labour to stop his mouth , yea and excommunicate him , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord ? i thinke they cannot but exercise some church censures , and that the pastors convincing of such a gaine-sayer , and a stopping of his mouth , is the very pastorall charge , layd upon titus by paul , tit. . , , . as is most cleare v : . rebuke them sharply , that they may be sound in the faith . . that place ro. . is not rightly , expounded , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not to receive into church-state by way of covenant , but it is , as pareus a saith , am●●ter & placide instituere , patienter tolerare , to instruct him patiently in the christian liberty about meates and dayes , and so b beza , take him in ; and far lesse , slee not his company , c marlorat , institute , fovete , donec proficiat , and so d calvin , ( e ) castellio , opitulemini , helpe him , and the word is philem. . receive him as my bowells , not unto church-state , for philemon was no pastor . question . vvhether or not , it be lawfull for one , or many particular churches , to sweare a plate-forme , and prescribed vocall covenant , called the confession of faith , of such a church . it is a fit place , having spoken so much of a church covenant , to speake of a covenant of the faith of a church ; our brethren being asked , what meanes have you to preserve unity and verity . answ. . we have ( say they ) scriptures . . the pastors , epk● . . and gods promise to leade them in all truth , ierem. . . ier. . . but this is not a right answer , for when we inquire of the meanes to preserve verity and unity , we aske for the externall meanes , whereby the scriptures are kept , from false glosses ; it is true the scriptures keepe themselves from false interpretation : but the question is , by what externall meanes doe the scriptures keepe themselves from false glosses ? the answer is not right , the scriptures keepe themselves from false glosse● , by keeping themselves from false glosse● . also the question is by what meanes doe pastors keep unity amongst themselves . it is not right answered , that pastors , by pastors , keepe ●nity amongst themselves . but we think a plat-forme ( say ●ur brethren ibid : ) of doctrine and discipline , or a confession of faith , or doctrine according to godlines , may be made by any church or person , but ( say they ) ●● plat-forme to be imposed on our selves or others , as a binding rule ●f faith , and practise , so that all men must believe and walke according to that plat-forme , without adding , altering , or omitting , we doubt whether such be lawfull , or convenient . whence our brethren con●emne the swearing or subscribing by oath , of a confession ●mposed or stinted by the church . let these considerations be weighed . . distinction , there is a principall and originall and formall ●round of faith which is the word of god in the old or new testament , this is the onely persit and formall ground of faith. . there is a secondary and materiall ground of faith , which is so far ● ground of faith and practise , as it agreeth with the vvord ●f god. . distinct. there is a confession which containeth fundamentalls only , the knowledge whereof is simply necessary for salvation , and the simple ignorance whereof condemneth ; there is a confession which containeth fundamentalls and non - fundamentalls , which are not simplie necessary to be knowen by all , necessitate ●●edii . . dist. a confession of faith , is to be respected in regard of the matter , which is divine scripture , or according to the stile , conception and in●erpretation , which is in some respect , humane . . distinct. there is a confession of a particular man , what such a person , or church believeth de facto , as the confession of ●●e belgick arminians , and a confession de jure , what every one ought to believe , as the nicen creed , the creed of ●thanasi●s . . dist. there is a confession of a faith firme and sure , quoad ●ertitudinem fidei , quoad substantiam articulorum credendo●um , sure in the articles believed , and a confession sure , quoad radicationem fidei in subjecto ; the first way all are obliged ●● believe the articles contained in the word , but we see not , how now after the canon of scripture is closed , but the certainty of faith , according to the measure of light more or lesse , as our lord more or lesse doth reveale himselfe , in a more , or lesse measure of ligh : doth not grow , wo● , or decrease , according to the certainy of faith , the second way , hence we say . . conclusion , onely the word of god is the principall and formall ground of our faith , eph. . , , . tim. . . luk. . . . concl. a confession of faith containing all fundamentall points , is so farre forth the word of god , as it agreeth with the word of god , and obligeth as a rule secundary , which wee believe with subjection to god , speaking in his owne word , and to this plat-forme wee may lawfullly sweare . . what ever wee are obliged to believe and professe as the saving truth of god , that we may lawfully sweare to professe , believe and practise , that the bond of faith may be sure : but wee are obliged to believe and professe the nationall confession of a sound church ; ergo. the proposition is cleare , from davids and the saints practise who layed bands on their soules to tie themselves to that which is lawfull , as , psal. . . i have sworn , and will performe it , that i will keep thy righteous judgements . the major is the doctrine of our dvines , and cleare , when they explaine the matter of a lawfull oath as a pareus b bucanus c tilenus , d profess leydens . e calvin , iunius , beza , piscator , zanchi● , &c. that things lawfull , may lawfully be sworne to god , observing other due circumstances . the assumption is ●●deniable . . arg. that whereof we are assured in conscience to be the truth and true religion , bringing salvation to mens soules , to that we may tie our selves , by an oath , upon the former grounds . but the sound confession of faith , set downe in a platform● is such , as we may and are to be assured of in conscience , ● the truth of god ; ergo , the assumption is proved , because what is gods word and truth , of that we are to be assured of i● conscience , as col. . . being knit together in love unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding , and heb. . . should keepe the full assurance of hope to the end , col. . , . eph. . . . if the people of the lewes did sweare a covenant with god , to keep the words of the covenant , to doe them , deut. . . , . to seeke the lord god of israel with all their heart , and with all their soule , chron. . . and if they entered into a curse , and an oath , to walke in the lords law which was given by moses the servant of god , to observe and doe all the commandements of the lord , and subscribed and sealed the covenant , with their hands , nehem. . . v. . then is it lawfull for a church to sweare , and by oath subscribe an orthodox confession . but the former is true , as the places alledged cleare ; ergo , so is the latter . that which onely may be doubted of , is the connexion of the major proposition , because israel did sweare to nothing but to moses written law , which in matter and forme was gods expresse written word ; but it will not follow , that we may sweare a plat-forme of divine truth framed and penned by men ; but the connexion notwithstanding of this remaineth sure , because israel did sweare the lords covenant , according to the true meaning and intent of the holy ghost , as it is gods word , and we also sweare a nationall covenant , not as it is mans word , or because the church or doctors , at the churches direction , have set it down in such and such words , such an order or method , but because it is gods word , so that we sweare to the sense , and meaning of the platforme of confession , as to the word of god ; now the word of god , and sense and meaning of the word is all one ; gods law and the true meaning of the law are not two different things . when a jew sweareth to the doctrine and covenant of god in the old testament , in a jewish meaning , he sweareth not to the word of god , because the word of god unsoundly expounded is not the word of god ; and though the sadducees and pharisees sweare the five bookes of moses , and the very covenant which asah and the kingdome of iud●h did sweare chron. . yet doe they not sweare the covenant of god , and that same which gods people did sweare chron. . or if any professing they worship idols should sweare that covenant , alledging the covenant doth not forbid idols to be memorials and objects by which absolute adoration is given to god , we would not thinke that they had sworne the covenant of god , but onely words of god falsely expounded , yea and made to be not gods word , but a plaine lying invention . therefore it is all one whether a church sweare a confession , in expresse words of scripture ; or a covenant in other words expounding the scriptures true meaning and sense according to the language and proper idiom of the nation and church ; for we sweare not words or a platforme as it is such , but the matter , sense , and meaning of the scriptures of god set downe in that platforme ; and it is certaine , in nehemiahs time there was some platforme , either the writings of moses , or some sound exposition thereof ; else i see not how they could seale it , nehem. . . and because of all this , we make a sure covenant , and write it , and our princes , levites and priests seale unto it . now that which was written could not but be a platforme either in scripture onely , according to the meaning of the exacters of the oath , or some interpretation ; else every man writ his owne covenant and sealed it , which is not like , for they all joyntly sware this covenant ; and the reason of this written , sworne , and sealed covenant , being morall , as is cleare , because of the apostasie of the whole church , and judgements upon them , for their apostasie , v. . and because of all this , we make , and write a sure covenant , saith the text 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & in toto hoe ( vertit a arias montanus ) nos excidentes fidelitatem b iudaei excudentes faedus fidele , c iunius , pro toto hoc pepigimus constitutionem ; now sinnes , back-slidings , and judgements may be and often are in all the christian churches . . to sweare to the true religion , the defence and maintenance thereof is a lawfull oath ; as to sweare to any thing that is lawfull , and to lay a new band on our soules to performe holy duties , where we feare a breach , and finde by experience there hath beene a breach , is also a dutie of morall and perpetuall equity ; therefore such a sworne covenant is lawfull : i say not from this place , that it is necessary , that all subscribe with their hands a covenant , because i thinke onely the princes , levites , priests and heads of families did subscribe the covenant , nehem. . . but nehem. . , . the whole people , all who had separated themselves from the lands sinne , and their strange wives , even their wives , their sonnes , their daughters , every one having knowledge , and having understanding . v. . they clave to their brethren , their nobles and entered into a curse , and into an oath to walke in gods law. if it be replied , that there was in israel no written covenant drawne up by a man , and put in a mans stile , language , method , and frame , they did sweare to keepe moses his law. i answer , when we sweare a covenant , our faith doth not relie upon words , characters , stile of language , or humane method , or any humane respects , but upon the truth of god , in that platforme ; and suppose we should swear and subscribe the old and new testament translated into our vulgar language ; we doe not sweare to the translation , characters , and humane expression ; but to the matter contained in the translation ; and that because iehovah our lord hath spoken it in his word . and if this be a good argument why we cannot sweare a platforme , then should none sweare a covenant at all , or make any holy vow , but those who understand the originall languages in hebrew and greeke ; and yet the characters and imprinting is humane even in the original , so all religious covenants and oathes should be unlawfull . . argum. what a church or person is to suffer for , or to believe , and obliged to render account of to every one that asketh account of us , that we may sweare , and seale with our hands , because what we are to suffer death for , and the losse of temporall life , for which we owe a reckoning to god by vertue of the ●ixt commandement , that is a matter of truth which we professe before god and men , and our dying for the truth , is a sort of reall oath , that we are before god professing that truth , is to be preferred to our life . but we are to suffer ( if god call us ) even death for the true religion , revel . . . act. . , . luk. . . phil. . , . ●nd the truth ; and we are obliged to believe , and to give account thereof before all men , and a reason of our faith and hope , pet : ● , . ergo , we may sweare it . argum. . if an oath to the true religion , and forme of wholesome doctine , be a speciall remedy against back●iding , and a meane to keepe off false and heretical doctrine ; then is such an oath lawfull : but the former is true ▪ ergo ; the proposition is cleare ; gods people say , nehem. . . because of all this ; that is , because they had done wickedly , and were tempted still to doe more , therefore they write and seale a covenant ; and if false teachers teach , circumcision must be if we● would be saved , then the church may , according to acts . condem●e that false doctrine by the vvord of god , and set downe canons which the churches are to observe ; and what they are to observe as warranted by gods vvord , layeth on bands upon the conscience , and what layeth on such a band , that wee may binde our selves , by oath , to performe , it being a speciall remedy lawfull against backsliding from the truth . . arg. our brethren have their grounds and reasons against the swearing of confession common to them , with the arminians and socinians , and their arguments are all one ; for a arminians censure the belgick confession and the pala●ines catechisme , and propound thirteene questions against it , as the third question is , an quaecunque dogmata in confessione & cat●chisme tractantur talia sunt , ut cuilibet christiano ad salutem creditu necessaria sint . and their seventh question is , if such confessions may be called secundaria fidei norma ; a secundary rule of faith : also all confessions , say they , b declare that confessions serve not to teach what we ought to beleeve , but what the authors of these confessions did beleeve . hence they reject all the determinations of the orthodox councels , condemning the heresies of arrius , eutiches , macedonius , apollinaris , sabelli● , samosate●us , pelagius , and all the oxthodox confessions of the reformed churches . secondly , also upon these grounds they alledge in their apologie c there be few things to be beleeves , that every sect may be the true church , so they beleeve some few articles not controverted amongst christians , such as these , th● there is a god , and that the word of god is true , &c. thirdly , they will not condemne the macedonians , arrians , anti-trinitar●● , pelagians , or others , of fundamentall herefies . fourthly , that one church of christians may be made up of papists , protestants , anabaptists , macedonians , sabellians , &c. and all sects so they leade a good life , according to the few articles necessary to salvation , may be saved , and all may be saved of any sect or religion . fifthly , that to sweare declarations , confessions , canons of orthodox councels , is to take away the liberty of prophesying and growing in the knowledge of the word of god , and the praying for grace and light of the holy spirit for the right meaning of gods word . sixthly , that athanasius spake amisse , when he said of the creed , that it was to be beleeved of every one who is to bee saved , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the same is the doctrine of the socinians , who doe in all these oppose all confessions of faith , and all orthodox decisions , canons , and determinations of sinods . so a socinus rejecteth all synods , all confessions and decisions even of the church universall . so b smalcius cal●eth it a rejecting of the word of god. and c theol. nico●aides saith , that it is enough to know things absolutely necessary for salvation ; and that the churches determination cannot remove errours and heresies . our brethens first argument against a nationall covenant ● , d if the doctrine contained in your platforme of confession ●warve from the scriptures , then the imposing thereof is so farre unlawfull ; if the doctrine be according to scripture , the platforme is ●eedlesse , the scripture being sufficient . ans. . this is the argument of arminians , episcopius saith , e and expresly f smalcius , qui vnlt sensum scripturae ab il●s ( confessionibus ) peti , tacitè deserit scripta apostolica , & traditiones humanas commendat . and therefore such decisions are ●ay the g remonstrantes ) pestes ecclesiarum & regni an●christi , idest , tyrannidis fulcra & tibicines . secondly , this ar●ument may be as well propounded against the preaching of the word , all printed sermons , commentaries , and interpretation of scripture , as against a confession : for if the doctrine in ser●ons bee not agreeable to scripture , then in so farre as ministers commend and command it to their hearers , it is unlawf●ll ; if it be agreeable to the scripture , it is needlesse , the scriptures ( saith the socinian smalcius ) are sufficient . our brethren answer , preaching is an ordinance of god , but a ●atforme of confession is not an ordinance of god. answ. a platforme , as it is conceived , in such a stile , me●hod , and characters , and words , is a humane ordinance , tali ●rie & ordine , and so is preaching ; but we sweare to no plat-●orme in that consideration ; but a platforme according to the truth contained in it , in which sense onely it is sworne unto , is the word of god , as are systemes of divinity , ●ermons printed and preached , and so though preaching be an ordinanced god , as it is , rom. . . yet according to the words , expression , dialect method , or doctrine , it is an humane ordinance ; and so the argument is against preaching as against our platforme . our brethrens second argument is ▪ the platforme abridgeth christian liberty , to try all things , and so though it be some means of unity , yet it is a dangerous hinderance of some verity , binding men to rest upon their former apprehensions , and knowledge , without libery to better their judgements . ans. . this in stile of language and truth of words is the very argument of arminian● . so in their a preface , and in their b apology it selfe they say . all liberty of prophecing and disputing against the orthodox faith is taken away , if men be tied and obliged to decisions and confessions of churches , and synods . yea to make an end of controversies ( saith c episcopius ) otherwayes then by perswading , is to bring a tyranny into the church of jesus christ , and wonderfully to bind , if not to take away liberty of consciences ; so in their apology they say , confessions and decisions of synods imposed by oath , and to be firmely believed ar● contrary to the prayers of saints , where they pray , that god would teach them his starutes , and reveale his law and testimonies ●● them , and open their eyes to behold the wonders of gods law. but the truth is , though these of berea did well to try pauls doctrine , if it was consonant to the scriptures , or not . yet pauls doctrine was the determination apostolick of gods spirit , to the which they were firmely to adhere , and their judgements are to be bettered , in graduali revelatione creditorum , ●●● revelatione plurium credendorum , in cleare revelation of things revealed . for so the children of god are to grow in grace , and in the knowledge of our lord and saviour , pet. . . after christ is once revealed : but not in believing in a new christ , or in believing of poynts contrary to the confession of faith . the argument presupposeth the doctrine of the arminians , that there be a number of points in our confession , of which we have no certainty of faith , that they are gods truth , but are things controverted , and , being not fundamentall poynts , may be holden , or we may forsake them , as false , after better information . which indeed maketh our faith of gods word , ●o full perswasion , but as the learned professors of leyden d say , a faith of an houre , or a month , or a yeare , which we may ●ast away , the next yeare . and this is to deny all confessions and points of truth , with pretence that the spirit hath revealed new truth : but how are these new revealed truths ( the revelation whereof wee obtaine by prayer ) rather workes of the spirit of truth ; then the former poynts which wee retract ? no man by this can be rooted and built in the faith , of any thing , except in the faith of things simply fundamentall . by which meanes all poynts at least many of them betwixt us and papists , arminia● , macedonians , sabellians , arrians , anabap●tiste , are matters reconcileable ; and either side may be holden , without hazard of salvation . neither is this definition of confessions any tyranny . because confessions are to be believed , in so far , as they are agreable to gods word , and lay upon us an obligation secondary onely , yet are they not so loose , as that we may leap from poynts of faith , and make the doctrine of faith arena gladiatoria a fencing field for gamesters and fencers . the materiall object of our faith , and the secondary ground and foundation thereof , may be very well , and is , gods word ; primary is preaching , confessions , creeds , symbols , which are not serie & ordine scripturae : and yet have wee certainty of divine faith in these things , because the formall object is , because god so saith in hi● scripture , and wee believe these with certainty of divine faith , under this reduplication , because the lord hath spoken these quoad sensum , in true meaning , though not in illâ scrie & ordine ; but more of this hereafter . chap. . sect . . touching officers and their election . our author laboureth to prove that pastors and doctors are different officers , which wee will not much improves , but if the meaning be , that they are inconsistent , in one man person , wee are against him . . because the apostles in their owne persons , and in feeding the flock , tim. . doth both under the name of overseers and bishops , and exercised both , as they could , according as they did finde the auditory . . because the formall objects the informing of the judgement , and exhorting are not so different , as that they should be imcompatible , for if god give them gifts both for the doctors chaire , and the pastors pulpit , as hee often doth , what should hinder but the church may call one and the same man , to both the pastor and the doctors chaire , as hee is able to , overtake both . author . . reas. cor. . . to one is given a word of wisdom● ( for direction of practice , ) to another a word of knowledge ( for direction of judgement . ) ans. this proveth they be different gifts and offices , yet not that they are incompatible in one person , as one may have both gifts given unto him , as is cleare by experience . reas. author ib. hee speaketh of diverse members of the church , as of diverse members of the naturall body , v. . . all the members have not one office , it is the action of the tongue to speak , not to see . ans. the comparison holdeth not in all . the eye cannot heare , the eare cannot see , yet the pastor may both see as pastor , and heare and delate to the church , as the churches eare , the manners of the scandalous . . reas. author , if the apostle speake of severall exercises of severall gifts , but both coincident to the same person or church office ; why then doth he command the teacher to waite on teaching , and the exhorter upon exhorting ? one who hath a gift of giveing almes , and shewing mercy , is not commanded to wait upon almes giving , unlesse it be his office , as well as his gift . ans. it is not fit that the doctor should attend the pastorall duties , except he be a pastor also , and have both gift and office , but having gifts for both , he may attend both , as the church calleth him to both . author . teaching and exhorting flow from severall gifts , and they are seldome found in one in eminency . ans. then where they are found in one in eminency ( as sometimes they are ) either hath god given a talent , for no use , which is against the wisdome of gods dispensation , or then hee who hath gifts for both , may discharge both , as hee may and can through time and strength of body . but wee contend not with our brethren in this , seeing they confesse , he that is gifted for both , may attend both . chap. . sect . . of ruling elders . we subscribe willingly to what our author saith , for the office of ruling elders in the church . for paul , rom. . . from foure principall acts requisite in christs house and body , v. , , . teaching , exhorting , giveing of almes , r●ling , maketh foure ordinary officers , teachers , pastors , deacons and elders . opposite to the office of ruling elders , object , that by rulers may be understood , governours of families . ans. families as they are such , are not churches , but parts of the church , and cleare it is that the apostle speaketh of christs body , the church in that place . . as we have many members in one body , &c. they object that paul speaketh of severall gifts , not of publick offices in the church , for he speaketh of all the power and actions , of all the members of the body of christ ; now the offices alone are not the body , but all the multitude of believers . ans. this cannot well be answered , by these , who make all the believers governours , and a generation of kings and teachers : because it is expresly said , v. . all members have not the same office . ergo , they are not all to attend ruling , and to rule with diligence . . 〈◊〉 is false that he speaketh not of officers , and publick officer . hee who speaketh of reigning doth indeed speak of a king , as he who speaketh of exhorting which is the specifick act of a pastor , speaketh of a pastor . the place , ● cor. . . . is cleare for ruling elders : but some say , that governours are but arhiters , which paul biddeth the corinthians set up in the church for decyding of civill controversies . . cor. . that they goe not to law one against another ▪ before heathen judges . ans. paul commandeth to obey judges , but never to set up a new order of judges in their roome . . these arbitees we●● not governours to command , but rather faithfull christians to counsell , and remove controversies , or christian reconcilers to hinder them to goe to the law , one with another before infi●●● judges . . the apostle is speaking here of such officers as christ hath set in the church , as the church and kingdom of christ , but these civill arbitrators , are no church-officers , ●● tim. . . the elders who rule well are worthy of double honour , &c. this place speaketh cleare for ruling elders . the adversaries say : here are meant deacons to whom are allowed stipends , for either here , or elsewhere wages are allowed for deacons . answ. . paul would not speake so honorably of deacons , as to allow them the worth of a double honorable reward . yea gods word purteth the deacons out of the roll of rulers and governours in gods house , as having nothing to doe by their office to labour in the word and prayer , but are in gods wisdome set lower to attend tables , nor doth the word call them elders , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in relation to the church but onely in relation to their owne family and house . tim. . . their office is an office of meere service of tables . . he is a labouring elder worthy of wages , that the apostle speaketh of here , as , v. . the deaconship being to receive the mercy and charity , which is almes , and not debt , cannot be such an office as taketh up the whole man , so as hee must live upon the churches charges . . bilson a a man partiall in this cause , against the minde of all the ancients ( saith didoclavius b giveth this interpetation . but it is seconded with no warrant of gods word , for governours and deacons are made two species of officers , rom. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he who ruleth with diligence , and he who hath mercy with chearefulnesse . and two opposite species are not predicated , the one of the other . and if well governing , rom. . be ●ell teaching and diligent exhorting , all are confounded in that text , where the apostle marshalleth the officers and their severall exercises so accurately . nor can hee meane here bishops so old that they are not now ab●e to labour in the word and doctrine , for then pasto●s for their age and inhability to preach , should because of their age and infirmity , deserve lesse honour and reward , then the yonger who are able to labour in the word and doctrine . this is crosse to the sift commandement , which addeth honour and double honour to age , and gray haires , being found in the way of righteousnesse . . against justice , that because yeares and paines in gods service , hath made them aged , for that they are to have lesse honour and reward : whereas they deserve the double ; rather then that the younger should be preferred to them . nor. . can the apostles meaning be , that these who rule well that lead an exemplarily holy life , are worthy of honour , especially painefull preachers . because . a person is never called a labourer , and worthy of hire , as the oxe that treadeth out the corne , because of holinesse of life , especially the church ●s not to give stipend to a pastor , for his holy life . . their life should be exemplarily holy , who did not labour in the word and doctrine , that is , we have a pastor passing holy in his life , but he cannot preach , or keepeth an ill conscience in his calling , because he is lazy and a loyterer in preaching . . what word of god , or dialect in the word expresseth a holy life , by well gover●ing , for a holy life is the sanctity of mans conversation be he a private , or a publick man. but to govern well , is the paraphase of a good governour and officer , in the greeke tongue or any other language . nor. . can the apostle understand by labourers in the word and doctrine ( as bilson a saith ) such as w●nt thorough the earth , and made j●urnies , as apostles and evangelists did , to plant visit and confirme churches , and by these who govern well , such as labour indeed in the word and doctrine , but are fixed to a certaine place . i answer , then the well ruling elders are not labourers in the word and doctrine ; for out of question one of the species of elders here mentioned , doe not labour in word and doctrine at all . but by this interpretation , both labour in the word and doctrine ; but the one in a fixed place , the other by apostolike journeys through the world. and the object of one of these offices , to wit , the word and doctrine differenceth the one from the other , whose object must be not the word and doctrine ; for word and doctrine need not to be governed , but the church , and persons in church-state need to be governed . . there is no warrant of the word , that to labour in the word is proper to the apostles and evangelists , journeying through the world , seeing ( as a didoclavius observeth● ) the same word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is ascribed to those who in a fixed place labour , thes. . , . who labour amongst you . yea , and it is taken for any travell of minde or body in the word . . he is not here to deny , nor can the apostle deny , but travelling apostles and evangelists did governe well , especially in planting elders in every church , and governing the planted churches , but he cannot speake of travelling to the wearying of the body : when the object of travelling is exprest , to wit , ( in word and doctrine ) which object is not given to the well ruling elder . a more speciall consideration of ruling elders , deacons , and widdowes . tim. . . after the apostle hath spoken of widdowes , and their service in the church , he passeth from them to speake of excellenter officers , to wit , of the ruling and the teaching elders . there be many interpretations ( say the opposers of ruling elders ) given upon this place ; and therefore it is hard to build a new church-officer on a text so obnoxious to various debates . answ. this would be concludent in part , if the nature of the text were the native seminary of these various interpretations ; but most of these debates arise from the wits of parties interressed in the question , such as papists , prelates , or deniers of all church-government . but i provoke to all the fathers , especially to chrysostome and the greeke fathers , who have expounded the place , if any ever did deny but this place holdeth forth two sorts of elders , though i grant they vary concerning the elders , which labour not in the word and doctrine . and this interpretation , elders who rule well are worthy of double honour , especially 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , id est , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because , or upon this consideration and respect , that they labour in the word and doctrine , was never knowne till of late . but we desire these five circumstances in the text to be considered ; for we build not our interpretation on any one , or two , or three of them , but we desire they may be looked on copulatively ; for i confesse a participle being attributum , or quasi attributum , though doubled or multiplied , doth not multiply subjects , because two , six , an hundred attributes may agree to one subject ; and the scripture and greeke language can well beare this . as col. . . i am present with you in the spirit , ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) rejoycing and beholding your order . one paul onely did both rejoyce and behold . and pet. . . what manner of persons ought we to be , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , looking for and hastening unto the comming of the day of god. here is no multiplying of persons . . i confesse also , that two articles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doe not multiply subjects , or make a distinction of divers sorts of persons . as revel . . . these things saith he , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is one and the same jesus who holdeth the seven starres in his right hand , and who walketh in the middest of the golden candlestickes . but we desire that the confluence of these five may be looked unto : as . there is a genus , a generall attribute , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , elders ; and this agreeth both to well ruling elders , and to those which labour in the word and doctrine . . there be here two participles , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . two articles , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . two species , two kinds of elders , under the generall attribute of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as the one species or kind is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such elders as rule well ; and the other kinde of elders be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , such as labour in the word , as pastors ; and in doctrine , as doct●rs . and fiftly , which is most considerable , here be two participles , two articles , two speciall elders divided and separated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the discretive particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and i provoke to all the authours of the greeke language , demost●enes , isocrates , aristophanes , pindarus , &c. to the septuagint in the old testament , to the whole new testament for one parallel place , where one and the same subject or kinde is so expressed , except you play foule play to the text : also that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a particle of discretion and multiplication of divers kinds , to me is cleare , ●● ti●us . vers . . there ●● many unruly and vaine talkers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , especially those of the circumcision , if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the particle ( especially ) doe not divide two sorts of vaine talkers , some vaine talkers of the circumcision , and some vaine talkers not of the circumcision ; then must this particle conjoyne them , and make no vaine talkers , save onely these of the circumcision ; and paul shall say then , there be many unruly and vaine talking persons of the circumcision , but especially those of the circumcision ; which non-sense is not to be ascribed to the spirit of god , so tim. . . who is the saviour of all men , especially of believers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doe not inferre that christ is the saviour of some who believe , and in a generall sence a saviour of some who believe not ; then must christ bestow one and the same salvation on all men , and also on beleevers , which neither arminians nor common sence can affirme , tim. . . he who provideth not for his olvne , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , especially for those of his own house . if it be not required that a believer provide for two sorts , to wit , these of his family , children and servants in an especiall manner ; and for friends also , who are not of his owne house ; then will paul have the believer to provide for none but for his owne house , which doth belie the text , which saith , he must provide for all his owne , and in a speciall manner for his owne house ; now if he be to provide for them , for this respect because they are of his owne house , then by this text he is not to provide for his brethren , sisters , and blood-friends , because they are not of his owne as members of his house , or his owne , gal. . . let us doe good to all , but especially , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to those who are of the houshold of faith . ergo , we are to doe good to some who are of the houshold of faith , and to some who are not of the houshold of faith ; except you say the text doth beare onely , that we are to doe good to none , save onely to those who are of the houshold of faith , which is non-sense , phil. . . all the saints , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , salute you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 especially those of caesars house . hence two sorts of saints saluted the philippians , some saints of caesars house , and some not of caesars house ; this you must say if you will not have the text to beare either that no saints did salute the philippians , save onely the saints of caesars house , contrary to sense ; for the text saith , all the saints ( here with me at rome ) salute you . otherwaies you must say , that the reason and motive why the saints saluted the philippians , was because they were saints of caesars house , as you say , the speciall cause and respect why the well ruling pastor is worthy of double honour , is because he laboureth in the word and ' doctrine ; for so you expound it . now this is two waies false , for . this can be no respect and cause why all the saints saluted the philippians , except all the saints which did salute them were onely the saints of caesars house ; and so both the argument should be false , and the conclusion false , for they were not all of caesars house who saluted the philippians . nor . was this the reason why they did salute them ; for the saints did salute the philippians upon this ground of christian relation , because they were saints , and loved one another in christ , and not upon this civill and common consideration , because they were caesars domestickes , and courtiers with the emperour . so a tim. . . bring with thee the cloake which i left at troas , and bookes , but especially the parchments . and thus doe also the hebrews speake , prov. . . retribution shall be made to the just , far more to the wicked . here be clearely two sorts of retributions , and two kinds of persons which are recompenced . and prov. . . the li●s of honour are not seemely for a foole , much lesse is falsity to a liberall man , or to a prince . i know these examples doe not every way come home to our point , but they prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to the hebrews a note of discretion ; as also , ● psalm . . v. . is even as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to the greekes . it is true , where a genus and a species , a generall and a speciall under that are set downe , ( for as much as genus & species non faci●nt numerism ) there is no need that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the particle ( especially ) should be as a note of dicretion or multiplication . as if ( i should say , a iudge is to be honoured , but especially judging righteously , ) i should not inferre that there are two sorts of judges ; but the case is not so here , because two species are expresly set downe , to wit , those who rule well , and those who labour in the word and doctrine . and if i should say , ( a iudge judging righteously for all , is worthy of much honour , especially he that judgeth righteously for the widow and the orphane ) i should in this hold forth , either two sorts of righteous judges , or then i should say no other , but he who judgeth righteously for a●● , is to be honoured , especially he who judgeth righteously for these , and these comprehended under this ( all . ) thirdly , i should in that also say that there be two things , though not two sorts of judges , worthy of much honour , to wit , the office of a iudge , and his equall and unpartiall judging are both worthy of double honor . but paul is not here allowing honour to the office in abstracto , and in a generall notion , but to the officer in specie and in concreto , who doth rule well , and labour in the word and doctrine . object . . but paul doth here understand by him that ruleth well , the civill magistrate . answ. when paul is here speaking of the oeconomy of gods house , it is not consonant to the text , that he would instruct timothy of the wages due to the emperour nero , and yoice the emperour in one verse , with the pastor and the doctor labouring in the word and doctrine , and prove from the law that the mouth of nero should not be muzled . nor doth the vvord give this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to magistrates , but some higher stiles , calling them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tit. . . principalities and powers , rom. . . secondly , this text would prove that double wages were due to paul above nero the emperour , and that pastors are more to bee honoured then emperours and kings . thirdly , the text speaks clearly of two parallel species of elders in the church , but the magistrate is no parallel line with preaching elders . object . . by those who rule well , are understood deacons , who take care of the poore . answ. didoclavius observeth , that deacons are never called rulers , but distinguished from them , rom. . . secondly , the well ruling here taketh up the halfe of the pastors office , and all that belongeth thereunto , except labouring in the word and doctrine ; as to receive accusations against an elder , to judge and governe with the pastor , to visit the sicke , to exhort and rebuse in a judiciall way ; but to serve tables , and to take care of the poore onely , is the least and most inferiour part of well-governing of gods house , and is but a care for their bodies : vvhereas to rule well , is an ecclesiasticall magistracy , to goe in and out before gods people , to watch for their soules , as those which must give an accompt , hebr. . . thess. . . the deacon careth for the body onely , and the deacon , that bilson and others would have with him , is neither in this place , nor in all gods vvord , as we shall heare . o● . . by these who rule well , are understord , bishops , who for age , cannot preach yet rule well . ans. surely these who have laboured in the word and doctrine , and spent their strength in painefull preaching , and now , in old age , rule well , cannot in reason bee thought worthy of lesse honour and wages , then preaching elders , but above them , as emeriti milites are not to be degraded : and if they have never laboured in the word and doctrine , they being bishops , by office , must be dumb dogs , and worthy of no honour at all . . they cannot rule well , as pastors , and yet be dumbe , and not labour in the word . . the text speaketh not of elders , aetate , by age , but of elders , officio , by office , who labour , as work-men in a vineyard , v. . ob. . by ruling well he meaneth a holy life , so as he meaneth not only that pastors should live holily , but also preach painfully . answ. didoclavius answereth , that then all that live holily , should have stipend , as workmen ; and certainly if paul had spoken nothing of these who labour in the word and doctrine , yet the text doth hold forth that these who rule well , and doe not labour in the word and doctrine are worthy of honour ; for the comparative here , or superlative degree , doth well inferre the positive degree . but . ministers shall bee worthy of honor , though they preach not . . the arguments which i brought , to prove , and that undeniably , that there be two sorts of elders , in the text fight against this sense , which inferreth that their is but one sort of preaching elders here , to whom double honor is due , for two respects , to wit , holinesse of life , and painfull preaching . . holinesse of life in all gods word , is never expressed by well governing , which is a worke of a publick church-officer , as is cleare . rom. . . thess. . . . holinesse of life is common to all private christians , yea and to women , who cannot rule , nor rule well . ob. . the rulers here ought to have wages , as workmen , but your elders have no wages . ergo , your elders are not in this text. answ. that is not concluded , which is in question ; for the assumption should be , but your elders ought to have no wages , and are worthy of no honour , ) and the assumption is onely de facto , ( they have none ) . this argument might prove that a noble man , called to be a minister , if he should take no stipend , were not a lawfull minister ; and paul then was no lawfull pastor , at corinth , because hee refused stipend ; but stipend is due to both pastor and elder , and in the case of scandall , it is due to neither of them , hic & hunc . ob. . if there be two sorts of elders here , there must be two sorts of bishops , for presbyter and bishop are synonyma , and one and the same , as is cleare , tit. . , . acts . . they are called elders , and v. . bishops . but we cannot admit of two sorts of bishops : some to rule , and some to preach , that were antichristian . answ. though there be two sort of elders here , it doth not follow that there be two sorts of bishops : and it is not proved because elder and bishop are not proved to be synonyma from the alledged places , genus & species , as a living creature and a man are not synonyma , but have different definitions . gladius & ensis have the same definitions , as a man and a discoursing creature are synonyma . an elder is a generall , and a bishop a sort of elder , and an apostle is an elder , and so peter tearmeth himselfe , pet. . . an elder : ●u● divines say that a preaching elder , and a bishop are synonyma , one and the same , and synonyma non faciunt mum●rum , as gladius & ensis : but they never taught that an elder in general and a bishop , are synonyma and the same , nor doe the places , acts . tit. . prove it ; for if they be all preaching elders , to whom paul preached at ephesus , acts . as the text seemeth to make them , acts , , . then the elders that paul called for v. . are preaching elders , and the same with bishops v. . and tit. . paul willeth titus to ordaine elders , that is , both preaching & ruling elders , and there he giveth an instance in preaching elders , or bishops , and sheweth what sort of men bishops should be . . if there be two sorts of elders , tim. . . then should there be two sorts of bishops ; i distinguish the proposition , then are there two sorts of preaching bishops , i deny the proposition in this sense , but if the meaning be , there be two species of bishops , or overseers , one ruling overseers , and another preaching bishops , we shall not contend for the word , if we agree upon the thing , though i much doubt , if the ruling elder in the scripture , come under the name of bishop or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . this objection falleth under the stroake of the arguments proving that there be two sorts of elders in this text , and how they can bee answered , i know not . ob. . that office is not in scripture , whose characters , qualities , and notes are not specified in scripture , as the characters of a deacon are , tim. . and of a bishop ibid. but the characters , qualites and notes of a ruling elder are not in the scripture , ergo , &c. answ. . i deny the major proposition ; for then , because the scripture saith not , an apostle should be blameles , the husband of one wife , vigilant , sober , and thus and thus , and an evangelist should be thus and thus , and a prophet should be thus and thus qualified , therefore apostles , evangelists , prophets , are not in scripture . it is true these were but temporall offices , yet it is enough to take off and breake the argument , for these temporary ●ffices , must be no lesse warranted , by the word , except they be unlawfull , then the offices that are of perpetuall indurance . . i distinguish the major proposition , that office is not in scripture , whose characters are not in scripture , neither in one particular place , expresly and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is not true ; for baptism : in no one place is so expresly set downe in scripture , from all its characters in particular , as is the supper of the lord , which is described , mat. . luk. . mark. . cor. . in the elements , sacred actions , prayer , consecration , words of institution , efficient , forme , end , gesture , &c. yet is baptisme for that not excluded from the classe and number of gods ordinances and seales , or , that office is not in scripture whose characters are not in scripture , nether in divers places of scripture , nor by good consequence , and lawfull analogy with other its fellow offices , that i yeeld willingy : but now the assumption is false : for as baptisme by analogy is described in many of its characters , as prayer , consecration of the elements , end &c. when the supper of the lord is described , making a just proportion betwixt baptisme and the other sacrament , and by other places of scripture , so is the ruling elder in his characters described ; when the bishop his fellow-officer is described . . the assumption also is false ; for the ruling elder is described out of this text. . negatively , that hence is gathered , by strong consequence , as is said , that he is an elder who laboureth not in the word and doctrine . . hee is described affirmatively , for an office is sufficiently described , when the specifick acts thereof are set downe , as a man is described when wee say , hee is a creature who doth discourse , and make use of reason ; so is this elder described , when wee say it is his office to rule well , tim. . . hee is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and a government which christ hath 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 instituted in the body , cor. . . and he is rom. . . an organ and member of christs body , whose office it is to rule , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with diligence , rom. , . ob. . but it is but a generall , that he rule , we have not these wherein the particulars of his ruling , consist . ans. if this be strong , you have not , tim. . the particulars of the pastorall teaching , but onely the generals , a bishop must be apt to teach . yet in other places we have the particulars , a● instructing , rebuking , confuting , convincing ; so what ever the scripture saith of the preaching elders ruling , that same is saith of the ruling elders ruling , seeing the ruling elder is the assistant officer to help the preaching elder , and both of them with the doctor are to rule the house of god. ob. . but if ruling be the specifick and essentiall note of the ruling elder , he cannot be a speciall officer different from the preaching elder , for what is essentiall to one species cannot agree to another , and what constituteth one species , doth not agree to another . answ. this connexion may well be denied , and it is said well by one ; the ruling elder solùm regit , doth onely governe , sed non solus regit , but he doth not govern his alone , but with the pastor and doctor . from these things i infer that as this is not a good consequence , mat. . luk. . mark. . the spirit of god doth set downe the lords supper in all its materialls , and passeth over baptisme in silence , and goeth to another subject ; ergo , baptisme is not the other sacrament of the new testament so neither is this a good consequence , ( paul , tim. . discribeth the bishop , and over skippeth the ruling elder , passing to the deacon ; ergo , the ruling elder is not an ordinance of god ) for while hee describeth the bishop , he teacheth what an one , both the doctor , and ruling elder should be , by cleare analogy , and it had beene superfluous for the holy ghost to say more , then he doth . and by this wee may answer to what is tenthly objected , the ruling elder is omitted in christs roll , eph. . . ergo , there is no such officer . answ. it followeth in no sort negatively , from one particular place of scripture , rev. . it is said onely god hath made us kings and priests unto god ; ergo , he hath not made us prophets also , the contrary is , esai . . . ioh. . . so because , it is life eternall to know the father , and the sonne , joh. . socinians collect ; erge , the holy spirit is not god , because no mention is made of him , in this place . . in this place paul ennumerateth offices necessary rather for planting churches , then for ruling churches already constituted and planted : miracles and tongues are ad benè esse ; elders and deacons are not named here , because they are for the leading on of the church , and the body already set up in a visible frame , and therefore reckoned out , rom. . . . cor. . . and consider , i pray you , how uncertaine and lubrick a way it is to pin gods spirit , and to fetter him to any one place in his enumerations , behold , rom. . ▪ all the ordinary officers are expressed , and yet apostles , evangelists , miracles , tongues are omitted , all which are ennumerated , cor. , . yet are specifick acts of prophets , teachers omitted , cor. . at lest onely spoken of in generall under the notion of hearing , seeing , walking , and rom. . they be more particularly set downe . and . tim. . phil. . . onely bishops and deacons are mentioned , and governments , and elders ruling well ●mitted ; and also all the extraordinary officers are omitted , and yet mentioned , cor. . , . and miracles , tongues , deacons , governments are omitted , eph. . . and , tim. . . preachers , rulers , doctors are expressed , deacons and extraordinary officers , apostles , evangelists , &c. passed over in silence : ob. . the keyes are not given to this ruling elder , ergo , he is no lawfull officer : the antecedent is proved , the keyes of jurisdiction , because they can operate nothing , but by the key of knowledge , cannot be given to this new officer , now the key of knowledge is given only to the preaching elder . ans. all dependeth upon this false proposition ; to these only are the keyes of jurisdiction , and power of binding and loosing given , to whom the keyes of knowledge are given , ) for though the one key worke nothing without the other , yet the proposition is not from this made good , for the key of knowledge , and the power of pastorall preaching is given , uni subjectivè , non unitati nisi objectivè , to one man as to the subject , and to the church , for her salvation and good , as for the end and object ; and the pastor being once ordained a pastor , may use these keyes , quoad specificationem independently , for hee may preach mercy and wrath , not waiting the churches suffrages , et potestas clavium quoad jurisdictionem data ●st ecclesiae & subjectivè & objectivè , & data est non uni , sed unitati : but the power of the keyes , in censures , for binding and loosing is given to no one mortall man , but to the church , both as to the subject , and the object . i meane the ministeriall church ; and not one man pastor , pope , o● prelate may use the keyes , the church hath them , and can onely validly use them . ob. . but how is it proved that ruling elders are of divine institution ? ans. god hath placed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ruling elders in the body , as is said , cor. . . and this is , rom. . . compared with v. . an office that christ hath appointed , and as these places prove the exhorter or pastor to be of divine institution , and the apostle , teacher , prophet , cor. . . and the elder who laboureth in the word and doctrine , to be an instituted worke-man worthy of wages , tim. . , . so must they prove the man who ruleth well , and with diligence , to be of divine appointment . ob. . but the ruling in diligence , rom. . . and the governments , cor. . . are generalls , and so cannot constitute a speciall office , in the body : for it is against logick , that that which is generall , and common to all the officers , can constitute a species , or a speciall kind : answ. this obligeth the opponent , to teach , what is meant by governors , whether magistrates , but these be not an office in christs body as is here said , rom. . . and cor. . , . or doe they meane masters of families ? but these be parts of heathen societies , as well as of christian , and a family as it is such , is not the church . . nor can hee meane here of preachers , for rom. . . cor. . . the exhorter and the ruler with diligence , the teacher , and prophet , and governments are clearely differenced , as different organs of the body , eye , eare , hand , foote , cor. . , . rom. . . nor ( ) can they understand rulers in generall : for , a genus , a generall doth not exist , or have actuall subsistence , but in some determinnate species ; as a living creature doth not subsist but in man , or in some specifick nature of birds and beasts : now god is sayd to place these governments in the body , cor. . . even as the eye , and eare and hand are seated in the body , cor. . , , . now as a generall eye , or an organ in generall is not placed in the body , but such a determinat organ , an eye , an eare , an hand , a foot ; so neither hath the wisdome of christ appointed a governor in generall , and left it to the churches discretion to specifie what this governour shall be , whether a prelate , a pastor , a ruling elder : but as god hath not set teachers in the body in generall , but hee hath placed such and such species , apostles , not popes , evangelists , not cardinalls ; so must hee have determined such and such governors , ruling elders , rather then a certaine creature named a diocesan prelate , an uncouth beast in the holy scripture . a very jesuite , salmeron , saith , by the two elders hee meaneth , tim. . . ( apertè sermonem esse de presbyteris & episcopis ) of elders and pastors , and with that of ambrosius , which wee all know to be ruling elders , who were out of use in the church , by the negligence , or rather by the pride of preaching elders , forte doctorum d●sidiâ , aut magis superbiâ ; and we are not to thinke , chrysostom was ignorant of his mother tongue , and hee findeth tim. . . two sorts of elders in this place , and a popish expositor estius , porrò manefeste colligitur ex hac sententia , fuisse , etiam apostolorum tempore , quosdam in ecclesia presbyteros , qui & benè praeessent , & duplici honore digni essent , nec tamen labotarent in verbo & doctrinâ , neque id hodierni sectarii negant ; and all the haeresie that he layeth on calvin , in this point , is that calvin maketh these lay-men ; and estius maketh a question what these elders were , whether they be the cardinalls , which the pope hath , or the canonicall elders , which their bishops use as councellors in grave matters , or elders which rule well , and labour not in the word and doctrine , such as were in the apostles time , or rather such as did help the bishops in offering sacrifice , and in administrating the sacraments ; or if they be such as rule the people , but cannot preach , such as alipius and val●rius were in augustines time ; so estius knoweth not what these elders bee , but inclineth to make them elders to the apostles , in the administration of the sacraments . ob. . but rom. . . the apostle speaketh of divers gifts , as v. . having then gifts , differing according to the grace , that is given to us , whether prophecy , let us prophecy , &c. ergo , the apostle doth not speak of divers offices . . one and the same man may both teach , and exhort , and therefore pastor and doctor are not here differenced . . the deacons office shall be here described , by the interjection of the ruling elder , but the two acts of the deacon , which is to give with simplicity , and , to shew mercy with cheerefulnesse , and which is an insolent order , therfore the apostle doth not here ennumerate divers offices . answ. there is no better consequence in this , to say , he speaketh of divers gifts ; ergo , he speaketh not of divers offices , then to say , he speaketh of divers faculties and habilities in the naturall body , as of an hability of seeing , hearing ; ergo , hee acknowledgeth not divers members with divers offices , as the eye to see , the e●re to heare , yea the contrary is rather a good consequence ; and the text is cleare that he speaketh of divers offices , v. . for as we have many members in one body , and all members have not the same office . so we being many , are one body , in christ , and every one members , one of another . yea the text holdeth forth these five to us to be distinctly considered . . that the church is one body organicall , having divers members . . that there be divers gifts of the spirit in this body , as is cleare , rom. . v. . , . ( ) that there be divers offices , and places and functions in this body , which the apostle excellently divideth into two generalls according to the necessities of the members of christs body . now in generall this necessity is two fold , one respecting the soule , and for this , hee hath ordained , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prophecy , and for the bodily necessity , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ministery and service . v. . and v. . and these two having set downe in abstracto , hee commeth to divide them , in concreto , according to their severall offices and functions , which be foure in the text. . the teacher , or doctor . v. .   . the exhorter , or pastor . v. .   . the ruler , or governing elder . also ● . .   . the distributer , who is to shew me ●● on the poore , or the deacon also . v. . then ( ) the apostle doth set downe the severall specifick actions and operations of these offices , and that againe two wayes . . in generall . . prophecying . v. .   . ministering . v. . . he setteth down the operations and specifick actions of the foure offices in particular , as . teaching , in the doctor . v. .   . exhorting , in the pastor . v. .   . ruling in , the elder . v. .   . distributing , and shewing mercy , in the deacon . v. . then ( ) he setteth downe the manner and holy qualification of these operations , and exercises of their offices ; and that also two wayes . . in generall . . in the foure particulars in generall . . in prophecying ; but how ? according to the proportion of faith v. .   . ministering , and how ? by being given or addicted to ministering v. . . he setteth them downe in foure particulars , as . the doctor or teacher , is to be in , or given to teaching . v. .   . the pastor , is to be in exhorting , sedulous and painefull . v. .   . the ruling elder , to rule , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with diligence . v. .   . the deacon is to distribute , and shew mercy , on the sick , poore , imprisoned , stranger , distracted , in simplicity , in chearefulnesse . v. . also though it be true , that one and the same man may both teach and exhort , and the comparison of the naturall body doth not in all things hold , for one member cannot both be the eye to see , and the eare to heare , but both are here a sort of eye to the church ; yet hath christ made the pastor and the doctor different . ( it is needlesse to dispute , if they differ in nature , and if it be a confounding of christs order , that one be both , when christ hath given gifts for both to one man ) for first , the vvord of god doth difference them ; secondly , we know that many have gifts to teach , who are but dull and weake to perswade and worke upon the affection , as is observed amongst the fathers . augustine excelled in teaching and disputing , chryostome in exhorting . salmeron observeth , that there thomas aquinas was eminent in informing the understanding , and bonaventura excellent for moving the affections . and many are fitted to worke on the affections , as pastors , who are not able to teach as doctors in the schools . so hath chrysostome and theodoret observed upon these words , rom. . , . nor doth it move me much , that paul speaketh twice in one verse of the deacon , it is not unusuall to the spirit of god in divers scriptures so to doe , as prov. . prov. . psal. . how dangerous it is to affirme , that all the officers are not set downe in gods vvord , we may be taught by papists , for estius giveth a reason , why the apostle setting downe , cor. . . the officers in gods house , hath omitted the pope ; he answereth , the apostle is not here setting downe the degrees of the hirarchicall order , for then he should have set downe bishops , presbyters , deacons , which be parts of that order , but onely he setteth downe some chiefe members of the church , indued with rare gifts , and commenting on ephes. . he saith , the pope is set downe under the name of pastors and doctors , because he sendeth pastors and doctors to all the world ; and this was the reason why the prelate was reputed a pastor , and the onely pastor , because though it was too base for him to preach ; yet he preached in and through poore presbyters whom he sent . and salmeron moveth the question , why cor. . . the pope , cardinals , and patriarches are omitted in this place ; and we say , why are bishops , archbishops , primates , metropolitans , deanes , archdeacons , chancellours , officials , &c. never once mentioned in the vvord of god. but salmeron answereth , . they are implicitely set downe here , and under the name of helps , opitulations ; paul hath instituted deans , archdeans , and the foure lesser orders . and what else doe divers answer , who teach that government cor. . . is but a generall ; and the church , in a prudentiall way , under this may substitute and introduce such and such species of governments as they shall finde convenient , as ruling elders , ruling prelates , and such like . but i would gladly know why the spirit of god hath particularly set downe the last specified officers , as cor. . . apostles , under which are no species of apostles , but onely such individuall persons , matthias , paul , &c. and hath also set downe pastors in specie , doctors and teachers in specie , ephes. . . under which there be onely such individuall persons who are pastors and teachers , as john , epaphroditus , archippus , thomas , &c. and there is no roome left for the church to subdivide pastors or doctors into such and such new sp●cies , as popes , cardinals , &c. and yet under the generall of governments , many species and new kindes of governments in a prudentiall way may be brought in . if christ have set downe the particulars of pastors , prophets , apostles , according to their last specified nature , why hath his wisdome not beene as expresse and particular in all other offices necessary for feeding and governing the flocke of christ ? a pope , a prelate , a cardinall , an officiall , would take as small roome in print , and in christs testament , as apostle , doctor , pastor , though i grant they doe take halfe so much more roome in the state and parliament . of deacons . we conceive , according to gods vvord acts . that deacons be of divine institution , because when some poore widowes were neglected in the dayly ministration , the apostles appointed seven men of good report , and full of the holy ghost , to take care of tables and provide for the poore , that the apostles might give themselves to the word and prayer . object . . there is not one word of deacons , acts . not one word of the poverty of widows , and these seven were but civill curators and tutors of the widows , and not church-officers , for any thing that can be collected from gods word . answ. the equivalent of a deacon in name , is acts . there are those who are not to preach the vvord , but are to serve tables , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and some did complaine because their widowes were neglected , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if widowes were neglected through the want of a dayly deaconry , the text must insinuate a deaconry , and a want of a table to these widowes . secondly , it is unknowne divinity , that the twelve apostles in a church-assembly doe institute , and that with solemne prayer , and imposition of hands , officers meerly civill to tutor widowes . thirdly , the daily ministration was the want of sustenance , as it is said , that certaine women ministred to christ of their substance , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . . yea your selves doe know that those hands have ministred to my necessities . and is it like that the apostles were civill curators to widowes before this time ? object . . it is evident from the text that these deacons were not of divine institution , but of a meere temporary erection , for the present necessity of the church . first , it is said they were appointed , acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . secondly , they were erected upon occasion of the multiplying of the disciples . thirdly , upon occasion of the poverty of widows , and therefore when there be no poore , there is no need of deacons , and so it is but an office of a temporary standing in the church . answ. these words ( in those dayes ) are not so much referred to the institution of deacons , as to the order of the history . secondly , to satans malice , who raised a schisme in the church , when the number of disciples grew . and thirdly , are referred to the murmuring of the widows ; and they doe no more prove that deacons are a temporary institution , and brought in , by the church , in a prudentiall way for the chuches present necessity , then the lords supper is concluded to be but a temporary and prudentiall institution of the church , because it is said , in the night that iesus was betrayed , he tooke bread , &c. secondly , the occasion of the multiplying of disciples & the neglecting of the widows , doth not prove that deacons are a prudentiall and temporary institution : for here i distinguish betwixt an occasion and a motive and cause ; divers ordinances of god have both these . as the occasion of writing the epistle to philamon , was the flight of onesmus a fugitive servant from his master , and his willing minde to returne to him againe , and upon that occasion paul did write to philamon ; but that will not prove that the epistle to philemon is but a prudentiall letter , and obliging for a time , because the motive and cause why the holy ghost would have it written , was , that it should be a part of canonicall scripture , obliging to the second comming of christ. the like i say of the epistle to the galathians , written upon occasion of seducing teachers , who had bewitched the galathians , and made them beleeve , they must be circumcised and keepe the law , if they would be justified in christ : yet hence is not proved , that the epistle to the galathians is but a prudentiall letter , and not of divine and perpetuall institution ; for the cause and motive of writing was , that it might be a part of the canon of faith . so also the covenant of grace and the gospell was made upon this occasion , by reason that the first covenant could not save us , heb. . vers . . rom. . . gal. . , . is therefore ( i pray you ) the covenant of grace but a temporary and a prudentiall peece ? upon the occasion of the death of zelophead , who died in the wildernesse without a male-childe , whose name thereby was in danger to be delete and blotted out of israel , the lord maketh a generall law through all israel , binding till the messiah his comming , numb . . . if a man die and have no sonne , then shall you cause his inheritance to passe unto his daughter ; this was no prudentiall law. i might alleage infinite ordinances in scripture , the like to this . yea , most of all the ordinances of god are occasioned from our spirituall necessities ; are they therefore but humane and prudentiall statutes , that are onely to endure for a time ? i thinke , no. ob. . but if the civill magistrate had been a friend to the church , acts . his place had beene to care for the poore , for the law of nature obligeth him to take care of the poore , therefore did a woman in the famine at the siege of samaria cry , helpe o king ; and if this were done by christian magistrates , pastors should be eased thereof , that they might give themselves to the word and prayer , and there should be no neede of a divine positive institution of deacons for this charge . answ. that the godly magistrate is to take care of the poore , as they are members of the common wealth , i could easily grant . but this is not now in question ; but whether , or not , the church , as it is an ecclesiasticall society , should not have a treasure of the peoples e●angelike free-will-offering for the necessity of the saints , as heb. . . cor. . , . cor. . , , , , and concequently , whether or not christ hath ordained , not the pastors , but some officers besides , to attend this worke ? vvee affirme he hath provided for his poore members , even their bodily necessi ies . secondly , if this be true , that there should be no deacon but the christian magistrate , then were these seven deacons but the substitutes and vicars of the emperour and king. now certainly , if apostolike benediction and laying on of hands , in the wisdome of god was thought fit for the vicars and deputies of the magistrates , it is like that beside the coronation of the roman emperour , the twelve apostles ought to have blessed him with prayer , and separated him by laying on of hands for this deaconrie ; for what apostolike calling is necessary , for the temporary substitute is more necessary , and at least that same way necessary for the principall . but that civill magistrates , ex officio , are to be separated for this church-office so holden forth to us , tim. . . i can hardly beleeve . thirdly , i see not what the magistrate doth in his office , but he doth it as the minister of god who beareth the sword , rom. . and if he should compell to give almes , then should almes be a debt , and not an almes and free-will-offering . it is t●u● , there may intervene some coaction to cause every man to do his duty , and to force men to give to the poore ; but then i say , that forcing with the sword should not be an act of a separated church-officer , who , as such , useth no carnall weapons . four●●ly , the law of nature may lead to a supporting of the poore , but that hindreth not but god may ordaine it as a church-duty , and appoint a church-officer to collect the bounty of the sain●● , cor. . . . i see not how the apostle , tim. . should not hold forth his cannons concerning a deacon , to the king , if he ex officio be the church-treasurer , but the apostle doth match him with the bishop , acts . the appointing of the deacon is not grounded acts . upon the want of a christian magistrate , but on another ground , that the apostles must attend a more necessary worke , then tables . object . . but the occasion of appointing deacons was to disburden the pastor , who was to give himselfe wholy to preaching and praying ; ergo , at the first the apostles and so also pastors were deacons ; if therefore the poore be fewer then they were at ierusalem , act. . where the church did exceedingly multiplie ; this office of deaconry was to returne to the pastors , as its prime and native subject ; and therefore is not essentially and primarily an office separated from the pastors office. and if the poore cease to be at all , the office ceaseth also . ans. i cannot well deny but it is apparent from act. . . that the apostles themselves were once those who cared for the poore , but i deny that hence it followes in the case of fewer poore , that the office can returne to the pastors as to the first subject , except you suppose the intervention of a divine institution to place it againe in the pastors ; as the power of judging israel was once in samuel , but upon supposition that saul was dead , that power cannot returne backe to samuel except you suppose that god by his authority shall re-deliver and translate it backe againe to samuel . for seeing god by positive institution had turned the power of judging over from samuel into the person of saul , and changed the same into a regall and kingly power , that same authority who changed the power must rechange it againe , and place it in , and restore it to its first subject . . the fewnesse of poore ; or no poore at all , cannot be supposed , joh. . . for the poore you have alwaies with you . and considering the afflictions of the churches , the object of the deacons giving and shewing mercy , as it is rom. . . cannot be wanting , as that the churches fabricke be kept in good frame , the poore , the captives of christian churches , the sicke , the wounded , the stranger , the distracted be relieved , yea and the poor saints of other churches , cor. . be supported . . not onely because of the impossibility that pastors cannot give both themselves to praying and the word , and to the serving of tables ; but by reason of the wisdome of christ in a positive law , the pastor cannot be the deacon ex officie in any case . for . christ hath made them distinct offices , upon good grounds , act. . . . the apostle hath set downe divers qualifications , for the bishop , tim. . . and for the deacon , v. , . and . the pastor who is to give the whole man to the preaching of the gospell , cannot entangle himselfe with tables , tim. . . tim. . , , . if we should say nothing , that if there were need of officers to take care of the poore , when there was such grace and love amongst the saints and apostles able and willing to acquit themselves toward the poore , and when all things were common act. . , , , . act. . . , , . far more now is the office needfull , when the love of many is waxen cold . object . . but if there were a community of goods , and no man lacked any thing , act. . . there were no poore at all , and so no need of deacons . answ. this is to carpe at the wisdome of god , who appointed seven men to serve tables ; for justice might say , those who had nothing to give to the publique treasury of the church , should expect nothing thence , charity would say the contrary . object . . distribution of earthly goods is not such a thing , at requireth a spirituall office ; for money given by a church-officer hath no spirituall influence on the poores necessity , more then money given by the magistrate , or one who hath no church-office . answ. i deny the consequence : for then the priests killing of bullockes to god had no more influence , if we speake physically , then a bullocke killed by another man. now the churches bounty and grace , cor. . . being a spirituall offering to god , by vertue of christs institution , hath more in it then the common charity of an heathen , if it were but for this , that the wisdome of god , in his ordinance is to be considered ; and if we speake physically , the word of god hath no more influence when spoken by a pastour in publique , then when spoken by a private man ; yet if we looke to gods ordinance , the one hath more assistance when it is spoken , then the other , caeter is paribus . object . . the office of a deacon is not mentioned in the word , and what should be his charge is scarcely holden forth in scripture . answ. the scripture saith the contrary , tim. . . they that have used the office of the deacons well , &c. v. . likewise must the deacon be grave , phil. . . . the scripture holdeth forth to us , that he must take care that widdows and the poore be not neglected in the daily ministration , act. . . and therefore must he serve tables , v. . and . he must be appointed over this worke , v. . and . looke how farre giving and shewing mercy , and how farre singlenesse of heart and cherefulnesse in these things extend , as farre must the office of the deacon extend , hence all in poverty , want , captivity , bonds , sicknesse , are to be helped by him . object . . but it would seem , that a deacon hath a higher imployment then to distribute goods , and that he is to preach , as stephen and philip did : for . they did choose men act. . full of the holy ghost ; now to be full of the holy ghost is a requisite in a preacher , and is not required in a man to distribute money ; yea these who are least esteemed in the church , cor. . . may judge in things pertaining to this life , ergo , they may suffice to distribute 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , things which belong to this life . answ. to distribute in a civill and naturall way requireth not a man full of the holy ghost , but to distribute in simplicity , and with the grace of heavenly cheerfulnesse , rom. . . and with the qualities of a compleat deacon , tim. . , , . requireth the holy ghost , though they may be good deacons who are not full of the holy ghost , but such were chosen , . because this was to be a rule to all ' deacons to the worlds end , and the rule should be as streight and perfect as can be . . because there were choice of such men , as those in the apostelike church , and reason that god be served with the best of his owne . . the holy ghost is required for sanctification , as well as for gifts of preaching , luke . . matth. . v. . . stephen did no more ch . . in his apology then any witnesses of christ convened before rulers may doe who are obliged to be ready alwaies to give an answer to every one who asketh them of the hope that is in them , with meeknesse and feare , pet. . . yea though it were a woman who yet may not preach , cor. . . philip was an evangelist . . the apostle , cor. . . doth sharply checke the corinthians , for going to law one with another , before heathen judges , whereas the smallest amongst them might have supplied the bench of an heathen judge in matters of this life , the losse whereof was nothing comparable to the great scandall they gave . but there is a greater grace required to the church-distribution , and the officiall regulating of the conscience in a constant office of distribution , then in a transient and arbitrary act of deciding a matter of money . object , . tim. . . the deacon must hold the mystery of the faith ; ergo , he must be able to preach . answ. it followeth not , for there is a twofold holding of the mystery of faith : one for the preaching of sound doctrine recommended to timothy , of this paul doth not speake ; there is another holding of faith for stedfast beleevers , and for an holy and blamelesse conversation ; and therefore it is not said simply , holding the mystory of faith , but , holding the mystery of faith in a pure conscience . in which sense christ saith to the church of pergamus , rev. . . thou holdest fast my name , and hast not denied my faith . and paul saith of himselfe , tim. . . i have fought a good fight , i have finished my course , i have kept the faith . he meaneth not , that he kept so much of the knowledge of the sound doctrine of faith as made him fit for the ministery , and qualified him to teach , and tim. . . holding faith and a good conscience , which is meant of the grace of saving faith . but that the deacon is not to preach is , cleare , . because paul clearely differenceth the deacon from the preaching elder , tim. . , , , . and requireth that the preaching elder be apt to teach , but requireth not this of the deacon , and act. . they are made two offices not consistent in one man ; for if the deacon must be a teacher , he must either be a teacher as a gifted man , or he must be a teacher in office ; he cannot ex officio , by his office , be a teacher as a gifted man , for the authours of that opinion hold that men are preachers that way as christians , and so the deacon though he were not a deacon , he might be a teacher in that sense , though he were onely a gifted christian : ergo , he cannot be such a teacher by his office : but neither can he be an officiall teacher as a deacon , for he who doth teach that way must also pray , for the one cannot be granted , and the other denied ; if then the deacon , ex officio , by his office must pray and preach ; he must pray and preach 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in season and out of seasor , and give himselfe to it . but if he must give himselfe to praying and preaching by his office , then by his office he must give over the sorving of tables , as is said , act. . . and if he must leave tables by his office , the deacon by his office must quit and give up his office , and it shall belong to the deacon by his office , to be no deacon . . whoever by his office may teach , by his office may administer the sacraments , for christ giveth one and the same royall patent and commission for both , matth. . cor. . . joh. . , . but this is to be a minister by office , and so a deacon , as a deacon , is a pastor . . the deacons office is to preach if he be thereto called by the bishop : hence the bishop is the principall and sole pastor ; the preacher , elder , and deacon , none of them may preach or baptize , except they be called thereunto by the bishop . hence judge what a pastor that man i● , who actu primo , and by office is a preacher , but cannot nor may not exercise his office , but by the will of a mortall man. object . . the deacon must be the husband of one wife , ruling his children and his own house well tim. . . ergo , he must be able to governe the church well , no l●sse then the pastor of whom the same qualification is required , v. . and so the deacon must be somewhat more then a carer for the poore . answ. the deacon is never called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a ruler ; nor is that same dignity of ruling the church put upon the deacon , v. . which is put upon the pastor , v. . nor are these same words spoken of both . nor is it said that the deacon must rule the house of god ; but the meaning is , he who cannot rule his owne children and house shall not be able to rule the hospitall houses of the poore and sicke ; and this ruling is nothing but a cari●g for tables , and for the houses of the poore . whereas taking care for the house of god is given to the pastor , v. . but if you give to the deacon the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , he is higher then his first institution can beare , act. . where he is expresly removed from all officiall medling with word and prayer , and set to the serving of tables . object . . the deacon by his office is to serve tables , act. . . that is , to administer the sacraments , at least he is by office to baptize ; for iesus himselfe baptized not , but his disciples , io● . . . and christ sent not paul to baptize , but to preach ; therefore the dpostles baptized by others , by deacons , and by others whose ministery and helpe they used in baptizing , ergo , the deacons office is not onely to care for the poore . answ. i yeeld that the deacon is to serve at the communion table , and provide the elements , and to carry the cup at the table : but that is no wayes the meaning of serving tables in this place , acts . . because the serving of tables , here , is such a service , as was a remedy of the widowes neglected in the dayly ministration , for of this neglect they complaine v. . but they did not complaine that they were neglected of the benefit of the lords supper , for the apostles doe never thinke that the administration of the lords supper is a burden which they put off themselves as inconsistent with the preaching of the word and prayer , and which they devolve wholly over to deacons , it s not so sayth the sixt councell , and chrysostome seemeth to teach the same ; and because a table signifieth an altar , ( as salmeron saith ) therefore some papists say that deacons served at the altar ; and so saith pontificale romanum oportet diaconum ministrare ad altare , baptizare , & praedicare : and salmeron saith , to serve at the altar is essentiall to the deacon , but to preach and baptize agreeth to him by commission and of necessity . . the apostles in the text , acts . doe denude themselves , of serving of tables in an officiall way , or , as serving of tables was a peculiar office imposed upon seven men , of honest report , and full of the holy ghost , with apostolick benediction , and laying on of the hands of the apostles , and doe manifestly make it an office different from their pastorall charge , which was to give themselves continually to prayer , and to the ministery of the word , v. . . for baptizing cannot but include praying and preaching . mat. . . or at least must be necessarily conjoyned in one and the same church-officer ; for where doth the word of god hold forth to us such a rare and strange creature , who by office is to baptise , but by office is neither to preach nor pray ? now the text doth clearely difference the office of serving tables , and the office of continuall praying and preaching , as not consistent in one person v. . , , . object . . paul , tim. . requireth that the deacon v. . should first be tryed , and thereafter use the office , so he be found blameles ; ergo , the deacon must be ordained with imposition of hands , as the presbyter , and so must be , by office , some more eminent person , then one who serveth tables only ; for grace was given to timothy ; by the laying on of hands , tim. . . and chrysostome observeth , that steven did no miracles ; nor did he speak with wisdome , that the adversaries were not able to resist v. . . . till first hee was appointed a deacon , by imposition of hands , which evidenceth to us more then a poore office of giving almes to the poore . answ. there is need that deacons be tryed ; and it is sayd , they must be found 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , blamelesse in conversation , not 〈◊〉 , apt to teach , which is required in a teacher , tim. . . for these who are to shew mercy with cheerfulnes , and to give with simplicity , as deacons must by their office doe , rom. . . must be of approved and tryed blamelesnes , lest they detrand the poore . . it is not sayd that deacons were ordained with fasting and prayer , acts . as the elders are chosen in every church , acts . . and as hands are layd upon paul and barnabas ; acts . v. . . but simply that the apostles , acts . . prayed and layd their hands on them . which seemeth to mee , to be nothing , but a signe of praying over the deacons , and no ceremony , or sacrament conferring on them the holy ghost ; and steven his working of miracles , and speaking with wisdome irresistible , was but the fruit of that grace and extraordinary measure of the holy ghost , abundantly powred forth on all rankes of persons , in those dayes , when the prophecy of iocl was now taking its accomplishment ; act. . , , . iocl . . . . which grace was in steven before hee was ordained a deacon , by the laying on of hands . act. . , , . and the text saith not that steven did wonders and signes amongst the people by vertue of imposition of hands , or of his deaconry , but because he was full of faith and power . v. . else you must make working of miracles a gift bestowed on all those who serve tables , and are not to give themselves to continuall praying , and the ministery of the word . i thinke , papists will not say so much of all their priests ; and we can say it of none of our pastors , nor doth chysostome say that steven , as a deacon , and by vertue of the office of a deacon wrought miracles ; but onely that his miracles and disputing was a meere consequent of laying on of hands . fa●ther laying on of hands was taken from the cus●ome of blessing amongst the jewes , christ layd his hands upon young children and blessed them , yet did hee not , thereby , designe them to any office . the fourth councell of carthage saith , deacons should administer the sacraments ; but times were growing worse then : and two things in ancient times made the office degenerate . . the l●zinesse of pastors who layd preaching and baptizing on the deacon . . the deacons having in their hands aerarium ecclesiasticum , the church treasury , as the church became rich , the deacons were exalted ; and then came in their archiliaconi , archdeacons and deacons , and so some deacons were above pastors , whereas acts . in their first institution they were inferior to pastors ; this moved spalato to tell us of two sorts of deacons , the apostolick deacons , which we assert , and the ecclesiastick deacons , popi● and of the newest cut ; which we discla●me . as concerning the perpetuity of deacons . i conceive that deacons must be as permanent in the church , as distribution and shewing mercy on the poore . ob. . how doe those words act. . v. . and the word of god grew , and the number of disciples multiplied in jerusalem greatly , &c. follow upon the institution of deacons v. , . , . if deacons were not , according to their primitive institution and office , ordained to be preachers of the word , by whose paines the word grew ? answ. the cohesion three wayes is good . . because the apostles being exonerated of serving tables , and giving themselves to continuall praying and the ministery of the word v. . through the constituting of the seven deacons the word thereby did grow ( ) satan stirred up a schisme betwixt the grecians and hebrewes , which is prejudiciall to the growth of the gospell and church , yet the lord being superabundantly gratious , where satan is exceedingly malitious , will have his gospell and church to flourish . . these words v. . doe cohere kindly with the last verse of the foregoing chapter . v. . and dayly in the temple , and in every house , they ceased not to teach and preach jesus christ and ch. . v. . and the word of god increased , &c. god blessing the labours of his persecuted apostles , and the story of the ordained deacons is cast in by luke upon occasion of the neglected grecian widdowes , and the growth of the word could not arise from the appointing of such officers who were not to labour in the word and prayer , but imployed about tables , to the end that the apostles might labour in the word and prayer . ob. . but doth not the faithfull administration of the deacons office , purchase to the deacon a good degree , that is , doth it make him ●●●ter in a preparatory way to be a pastor ? answ. the word of god , tim. . and elsewhere setting downe the qualification and previous dispositions of a teacher , doth no where teach us , that none can be a minister , but he who is first a deacon . . didcclavius saith , many are faithfull deacons who are never teachers , nor apt to be teachers , and many in the ancient church were , of lay men , made teache●r . ambrosius heri catechumenus , hodie episcopus ; and estius granteth , many good deacons can never be teachers , because of their ignorance . hugo cardinal saith , this is onely against these , qui subito ascendunt in pr●lationes , who suddainly ascend to prelacies , cornelius a lapide saith , ut promereantur altiùs promoveri in sacerdotia ; they are to serve so , as they may deserve to be promoted to higher places ; but this doth not infer that none can be presbyters who have not first beene deacons . as chrysostome saith , we use not to place a novice in an high place , antequam fidei suae & vitae dederit doc●m●nta , before hee have given proofe of his faith , and good conversation . and cyprian writing to antonianus , commendeth cornelius that hee came not by a leap and suddainly to be a bishop , sed per omnia ecclesiastica officia promotus , being promoted by degrees to all church-offices ; and bernard followeth the same meaning . lyra , merebu●tur quod fiant sacerdotes , acquirunt altiorem gradum , saith salmeron . now it is cleare that the fathers and papists could extort no more out of the text ; but that hee who useth the office of a deacon well , doth deserve of the church , to be promoted to an higher office , but there is no ground for papists , or others to make the deacons office a necessiary degree , without the which none can be a teacher . a sozomenus saith the deacons office was to keepe the churches goods b epiphanius , diaconis in ecclefia non con creditum est , ut aliquod mysterium perficiant , sed ut administrent solùm & exequantur commissa ; then they might neither teach nor baptize , c eusebius saith , the care of the poore and the keeping of the church and the vessels thereof were committed to the deacons d ruffinus saith , deacons disputed in synods ; and athanasius , when hee was a deacon , helped his bishop alexander at the nicen councell ; but this came ( as i suppose ) because about the fourth century , they were admitted to be scribes in synods e ambrose saith at the beginning , deacons did preach and baptise , but after when the church was well furnished with officers , they durst not presume to teach . the f canon of the councel of nice saith ; diaconi ne sedeant in concessu presbyterorum , aut illis praesentibus eucharistiam dividant , sed illis agentibus solùm ministrent ; if there was not a presbyter present g ruffinus saith , then the deacon might distribute the elements . i conceive , the place tim. . saith , that widowes were in the apostolick church , both poore aged women , who were to be mantained by the church , and also auxiliary helps , for meere service to helpe the deacons in these hot countries . both is apparent from the text ▪ honour widowes that are widowes indeed , that is as h hugo cardinalis expoundeth it , who want both the comfort of an husband and of children to maintaine them ; and so also i chrysostome , before him expounded it ; and k hugo cardinalis , the honour that is due to them , is , say chrysostome , theophylact , anselmus , that they bee sustained by the oblations of the church . ecclesiae oblationibus sustententur , say l salmeron and m estius ; and cornelius n à lapide , saith , as ( honour thy father and thy mother ) doth include ( h●norem sustentationis ) that children are to give the honour of maintenance to their indigent parents , no lesse then the honour of obedience and reverence , so are widowes to have this honour . ( ) it is said , if any vvidow have children or nephewes , let them learne first to shew mercy at home , and to requite their parents ; ergo , the children or grand children of these vvidowes were to sustaine them , and not to burden the church , with them , and so they were poore widowes ; and this . . the text clearely holdeth forth , while the apostle proveth that the children who are able , are to helpe the parent being a desolate widow ; because v. . all are to provide for these of their owne house , and to maintaine them in their indigence , else they be , in that , worse then infidell children , who by natures love , doe provide for their poore parents . . this is cleare from , v. . if any man or woman that believeth , hath widows , let them relieve them , and let not the church be charged , that they may relieve them that are widowes indeed ; ergo , these widowes called also , v. . widowes indeed , did some way burden the church with their maintenance , and they were not to be layd upon the churches stock , to be maintained thereby , except they were desolate and without friends . but some may object , if these widowes had a charge , and did any worke or service to the church , ( as it is cleare from the text , v . they did ) in overseeing the poore , and the sick , were not wages due to them , for their worke ? for the labourer is worthy of his hire ; the scripture saith not , if a preacher have a father who is rich , and may sustaine his son ; let not the church be burdened with his wages , but on the contrary , the preacher is to have his wages for his work , as an hire ; ad modum debiti , non ad modum eleemo●ynae ; as a debt , not as an almes . i answer , the reason is not alike of the preaching elder , and of the widow ; for the pastors service requiring the whole man was of that nature , that it was a worke deserving wages , as any worke-man , a dresser of a vineyard deserveth wages , cor. . or a plower , or one that thresheth v. . therefore the preachers wages is so wages that its debt , not almes : but a widow of sixty yeeres being weake and infirme , cannot acquit her selfe , in such a painfull office as doth merit poore wages , and therefore the reward of her labour was both wages and an almes . againe , that this widow had some charge or service in the church , ( i meane not any ministeriall office , for she was not ordained as the deacon , acts . with imposition of hands ) i prove from the text. . because this widdow was not to be chosen to the number or colledge of widowes , except shee had beene . yeares , this is a positive qualification of a positive service , as if it were an office ; for else what more reason in . yeares then in . or . or in . or . if shee was a meere eleemosynary and an indigent woman ? or can godlinesse permit us to thinke that paul would exclude a widow of . or . or yeeres , from the colledge of widowes , who were desolate and poore ? nor , . would paul rebuke the widow taken into the society of these widowes , because shee married an husband , except she had entered to this service , and had vowed chastity , nor is marrying the second time which is lawfull , rom. . . . a waxing wanton against christ and a casting off of the first faith ; as the marrying of these widowes is called . v. . . therefore this widow , had some charge and service , in the church . . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let a widow be chosen of such an age , and not younger , and with such morall qualifications , as is required in the deacon , &c. doth also evidence that it was an election to some service or charge , as is she be of good report , if she have brought up her children ; if she have lodged strangers ; if she have washed the saints feete ; which qualifications not being in a widow poore and desolate , cannot exclude her from the churches almes , and expose her to famishing for want : this also doth ambrose , augustine , tract . . in ioan. chrysostomus , theophylact. hieronymus observe on this place ; it is not unprobable to me that phaebe called a deacon , or servant of the church of cenchrea , was such a widow , seeing she is rom. . . expresly so called : how shee came to rome , if shee was a poore widdow and now . yeares old , i dispute not , seeing gods spirit calleth her so . we can easily yield that vvidows of sixty yeares entring to this service did vow not to marrie againe ; so teach cyprian . l. . epist ▪ ad pomponium , hyeronym . contr . jovia● . epihan . . the last canon of the councell of nice ( as ruffinus l. . c. . saith ) denieth widowes to be church-officers , because they were not ordained with imposition of hands . hyeronimus in c. . ad roman . saith , diaconisses in the orientall church had some service in baptisme . epiphanius l. . tom . . heres . . saith , they were in the church , non ad sacrificandum , sed propter horam balnci , aut visitationis — quando nudatum fuit corpus ●●lieris . constantine placed them amongst the clergy , to governe the corps of the dead ; but papists then have no warrant for their nuns . chap. . sect . . of election of officers . here the author teaches , that election of officers belongeth to the church whose officers they are . . that the church of believers , being destitute of all officers , may ordaine their own officers and presbyters , by imposition of hands , in respect that the power of the keys is given to the church of believers , mar. . answ. election of officers ( no doubt ) belongeth to the whole church , not in the meaning of our brethren ; but that this may be cleared , whether a church without officers , may ordaine elders , there be diverse other questions here to be agitated ; as . whether the church be before the ministery , or the ministery before the churches . . dist. there is an ordinary , and an extraordinary ministery . . there is a mysticall church of believers , and a ministeriall church of pastors and flock . . a church may be so called by anticipation , as hos. . jacob served for a wise ; or formally , because it is constituted in its whole being . . a ministery is a ministery to these , who are not as yet professors , but only potentially members of the church . . concl. there is a church of believers sometime before there be a ministeriall church . . because a company of believers is a mysticall church , for which christ died , eph. . . and such there may be before there be a setled ministery . as there is a house , before there be a candlestick , because conversion may be by private meanes , as by reading and conference ; yea a woman hath carried the gospell to a land , before there was a ministery in it . . adam was first and evah by order of ●ature a church created of god , before there was a ministery ; so adams ministery is founded upon a nature created according to gods image . . concl. a publick ordinary ministery is before a church of believers . eph. . . pastors , teachers , and a ministery , are given to the inbringing and gathering of the church ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that is , edifying , and not onely for confirming , but for the converting of the body of christ. nor is robinson a and his fellowes here to be heard , that the word of restoring is the same which is used , gal. . . and so nothing is meant but repairing of christians already converted , not the converting of these who are yet unconverted . but i answer . the word of restoring doth no more import that they were converted before , then the word of renewing , eph. . . rom. . . and the word of awaking from sleepe of sinners , ep● . . . doth import that these were new creatures before , and that they had the life of god , before they be said to be renewed againe and made new , and awaked out of their sleepe . and this pelagian and popish exposition , is a faire way to elude all the places for the power of grace ; and to helpe papists and arminian● . . by this there is , . no necessity of a publick ministery , for the conversion of soules to christ , nor is a ministery and pastors , and teachers given by jesus christ , with intention , to open the eyes of the blind , and to convert soules to god. all the ordinary wayes of conversion of soules , is by the preaching of men out of office , and destitute of all calling of the church to preach , which is a wonder . . the fathers begetting , by order of nature , are before the children ; the pastors are fathers , the seede before the plant or birth ; the word preached , rom. . . is the immortall seed of the new birth , pet. . . the ministery and ordinary use thereof , is given to the pastors as to christs ambassadours , cor. . . . therefore the ministery is before the church of believers , though wee will not tie the lord to these only : yet is this his ordinary established way : but more of this hereafter . robinson objecteth b the apostles and brethren were a church of god , acts . . when as yet no pastors or teachers were appoynted in it . how then are the ministers spoken of eph. . . before the church out of which they were taken ? yea the office of pastors was not heard of in the church then . ans. . it is cleare there were in that meeting , eleven apostles called to be pastors ; mat. . , , . sent of god , mat . inspired or the holy ghost to open and shut heaven , ioh. . , . before christs ascension ; and this meeting was after his ascension , acts. . . and here was a governing church , and without the apostles , an apostle could not be chosen and called by men . and an instance of such a calling is not in gods word . . he objecteth . the apostles themselves , were first christians and members of the church , before they were ministers . answ. men may be a church of christians , and a mysticall church before they have a ministery , but they are not a governing church , having the power of the keyes , so long as they want officers and stewards , who only have warrant ordinary of christ to use the keys . . he objecteth , god cor. . . hath set officers in the church ; ergo , the church is before the officers , as the setting of a candle in a candlestick . presupposeth a candlestick . the church is the candlestick . rev. . the officers candles , lights , stars answ. god hath put and breathed in man a living soule . ergo , he is a living man , before the soule be breathed in him : friend your logick is naught . the church is the candlestick , not simply without candles and lampes : the church ministeriall is the candlestick , and the ministers the candles set in the church ministeriall , as eyes and eares are seated , and all the seales are seated in a living man ; ergo , he is a living man before the senses be seated in him , it followeth in no sort . because by the candles seating in the church , the church becommeth a ministeriall and governing church : it is as you would say the lord giveth the wife to the husband ; ergo. he is an husband before god give him the wife . . he objecteth . that it is senseles , that a minister may be sent as a minister , to the hidden number not yet called out , which are also his st●ck potentially , not actually ; as mr. bernard saith , because it is the property of a good shepheard , to call his own sheep by name . ioh. . also it is a logicall error , that a man may have a● actuall relation to a stock potentially , it is as if a man were a husband because he may have a wife . but i answer ; he not onely may be , but is a pastor to these that are but potentially members to the invisible church , though unconverted , except you say , a man hath no relation as a pastor to the flock , to all and every one of a thousand soules , which are his flock , except they bee all truly converted , and members of the invisible church , which if you say , i can refute it easily as an anabaptisticall falsehood ; for if they all professe the truth , and chuse him for their pastor , hee is their pastor , but they are a saved flock potentially , though actually a visible flock having actuall relation to him , as to their pastor . but. . that a good minister know all his flock by name , be requisite , and is spoken of christ ▪ ioh. . in relation to the whole catholick church , as is expounded v. . yet will it not follow , he is not a pastor nor not a good pastor , who knoweth not all his flock at all times . . a man is indeed not properly a pastor , and a church officer to indians , who neither are called nor professe the truth , if he preach to them , though he have not relation to such , as to a christian flock , yet he hath a relation of a pastor to them in that case . yea i desire our brethren to satisfie me in this even according to their grounds . a number of christians is a church mysticall , but they are not a church ministeriall , while they be conjoyned covenant-wayes , and use the keyes in such acts of church union : ergo , they are not a church ministeriall before they bee a church governing : which is all wee say ; for then they should be a body seeing and hearing , before they be a body seeing and hearing . quest. . vvhether there be any church in the scripture having power of the keys , yet wanting all church-officers ? the question is neere to the former , yet needfull in this matter to be discussed . the question is not , if the name church be given to a company of christians , without relation to their officers , for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is given to a civill meeting . the hebrews call , sometimes , any meeting of people a church : as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth sometime signifie , gen. . . my soule come not thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to their assembly . so the rabbines use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for a place , where the congregation meeteth . so the chaldaick and arabick use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the place where the worshippers met , from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 caldaice & syriace , adoravit , because it is a place of meeting for adoration ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thè congregation from the arabick 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 congregavit . yet speaking of a governing and orderly constituted church , you shall never finde , such a church having the name of a church , but such a company as hath officers , and is spoken of as a house and family , where there are stewards , keys , doores , bread and other things noting a city-incorporation . . because the keys are given to stewards , who , by ▪ office , beare the keys ; for taking in and casting out , by power of censures , is proper to an ordered city , where there are governors , and people governed . . because wee reade not that the keyes are given to a company of single believers , out of office . . wee never finde in the word of god , any practice , or precept , that a single company did use the keyes , or can use them , wanting all officers . heare what robinson objecteth , that he may establish a popular government . a two or three making peters confession , mat. . are a church . but two or three may make this confession without officers ; ergo , the proposition is cleare , by the promise made to build the church upon the rock of peters confession . answ. . i deny the proposition , and it is not proved : two or three making peters confession are not the church ministeriall , to which christ gave the keyes ; for the keys include pastorall power to preach and baptize , which separatists b deny to two or three wanting officers , they may be a mysticall church or a part of the redeemed church , eph. . . . nor doth christ promise to build the ministeriall church properly on the rock , but only the church of believers , for whom he gave the keyes , but to whom he gave no keyes . . this argument will hurt our brethren : for two or three not entred in church-state , nor in courch-covenant , without church-state , as well , as without officers , may , and doe often make peters confession ; yet are they not for that a governing church , because they may not happily as yet bee united covenant-wayes . . he objecteth , if the apostles appoint elders in every church . acts . . if god se● in the church apostles , prophets , teachers , cor . . then there is a church before officers , apostles , prophets : a major presupposeth there was a city , before he was major , a steward presupposeth a family ; is not the eldership an ordinance of the church , and called the elders of the church ? the church is not an ordinance of the elders , or given ●● the elders . ans. job . . . god hath granted to iob life ; ergo , iob was a living man before god had given him life . the lord breathed in man the breath of life ; ergo , he was a breathing and a living man , before god breathed that life in him . god formed man of the dust , gen. . . ergo , hee was a man before god formed him . all these are as good consequences . so iac●● served for a wife , hos. . . ergo , she was his wife before hee served for her ; it followeth not . . this proveth not there is a governing church without officers , but the contrary , because for that end doth the lord appoint elders in every church , and a ruler in a city , a king in a kingdome , to governe them , to feed the flock , acts . . ergo , before there be officers in a church , there is no government in it . and so it is not a governing church ; nor is a city a governing incorporation without a major or some other rulers , nor a kingdome a monarchicall state without a king. and so the elders , are the churches elders , as life is the forme of a living man. and this argument is much against them god ( say our brethren ) hath appoynted a church-covenant , in his church , will it follow : ergo , there is a church , before a church-covenant ; they cannot say this . . these with whom ( sayth robinson ) god hath made a covenant , to be their god , and to have them his people , and to dwell it them as his temple , which have right to the promises of christ and his presence , are his church . but a company of believers without officers are such ; ergo , the proposition is scripture , gen. . . levi. . , . mat. . . the assumption is true , because they may believe , separate themselves from the world , come out of babel without officers , except you say they must go to rome , to jerusalem , and beyond sea , to seeke a church . answ. the major is false ; for god is in covenant with six believers before they sweare a church-covenant , and so all the promises are made to them , and yet by your grant , they are not a church . yea all these agree to the invisible church , and every single member thereof . . without officers , believers may not separate themselves from the world , and come out of babel , by a positive and authoritative separation , to erect a new church without pastors , or in an ordinary way ; though as christians they may separate from rome , negatively and touch no uncleane things . . we send none to ierusalem and babylon to seeke a church yet , but except we fall unto the tenets of anabaptists , socinians and arminians : wee must send farther then to every house , where three believers are , to seeke such as have warrant from christ to adminstrate the seales of grace , except you in casting downe babel , build iericho , and raise up a tower of confusion , and evert the ministeriall order that christ hath appoynted in his church . . then how often ( saith he ) the officers die , so oft the church dieth also ; to remove the candlestick is to dischurch the assembly ; but the death of officers ( which may be in a great persecution ) is never said to be a dischurching of an assembly . and all communion of saints shall perish , when the officers are removed ; for baptisme is without the visible church ; eph. . answ. . when the shepheards are removed , the tents cannot be called the shepheards tents , and persecution often doth deface the visible face of a ministeriall church , and to remove the candlestick is to remove the ministery , as to take away eyes , and eares and hands from the body , is to hurt the integrity of it , and make it lame . . all communion ministeriall whereby we are a body visible , cor. . . eating one bread , may well be loosed , when pastors are removed , whose onely it is , by your owne confession , to administrate the sacraments , except you allow all to administrate the lords supper , and women to baptise ; nor is there a communion in a family betwixt husband and wife , if you remove husband and wife out of the family , except , you meane a communion by way of charity , to rebuke , exhort , comfort one another , which communion is betwixt two independent congregations , who are not in church-state one to another : but if you meane in church-communion , take heed that the keys of every christian family , and the keys of the kingdome of heaven be not by this , made all one . also it is ( saith he ) unequall dealing to make a prophane multitude , under a diocesian prelate a church , and to deny , that a company of faithfull believers is a church . . god hath not tied his power or presence to any order , or office of the world , but accepteth of them that feare him , and worke righteousnes . . a power to enjoy the officers is seated in the body , as an essentiall property . . th● lord calleth the body of the saints the church , excluding the elders acts . . . tim. . . because the church is essentially in the saints , as the matter and subject formed by the covenant , unto the which the officers are but adjuncts , not making for the being , but for the welbeing of the church , and so the furtherance of their faith and their service . answ. a profane multitude under a diocesian prelate , is not a church mysticall of redemed ones , as a company of believers are , but professing the truth and consisting of a flock of called officers , they may wel be a ministeriall church , which foure believers cannot be . it is true god hath not tied his power and presence to any order or office , as anabaptists say : and so speaketh the catech. of raccovia a and smalcius b and nicolaides c say , there is no necessity of a ministery , after that the evangel i● preached by the apostles and confirmed by miracles : and that a ministery is onely profitable ad benè esse , and not necessary ; the arminians teach so , the d remonstrantes , praedicationem verbi ad id simplicitèr necessariam negant : quid clarius ? so e eipscopius , pastoris actio non tam necessaria est quam utilis ad edificationem , postquam scriptura omnibus & singulis legenda data est , ut ex ca suopte marte discat quisque quantum satis est . but paul maketh it in the ordinary way , necessary for salvation to believe , * to call on the name of the lord , and to heare a prophet sent ; and the presence and power of god in the seales of righteousnes , is tyed to lawfull pastors , who onely can administrate those seales , mat. . . as to meanes ordained of god , not as if god could not save without them , and accept the righteous doers without them , but see how this man would beare us in hand , that the comfort of pastorall preaching and the sacraments cannot be tyed to called ministers , exccept we call god an accepter of persons , which is denied , acts ? i believed teachers and doctors and elders , had beene the eyes , eares and hands , and so integrall parts of the visible church , as christ is the head of the catholick church . and this man maketh integrall parts adjunctes of the church , thereby declaring ministers may be well wanted , and that they are passements ad bene esse , and things of order . never did anabaptists speake louder against the ordinances of christ ; and socinians and arminians are obliged to him . thirdly , the beleevers have right to the officers , and this right is an essentiall property of the church ; then also , because beleevers have right to the keys , the keyes are onely an adjunct of the visible church , which our brethren must deny . . acts . . tim. . . the church excluding the officers is ( saith robinson ) called the church , as the elders of the church , and timothy was to behave himselfe well in the church of god. this is answered ; they are first a mysticall church , not a governing church . secondly , a man is called a man excluding his soule , ( if your soule were in my soules stead . ) therefore a man is a thing living , and a reasonable man without his soule : what vanity is here ! fifthly , if the church-covenant be the essentiall forme of the church , it is as accider tall to the well being of beleevers , as officers are ; for they are the light of the world , the salt of the earth , which is more necessary then a church-covenant . and robinson saith a further , two or three have received christ , and his power and right to all the meanes of grace , and christ and his power are not divided ; also the wife hath immediate right to her husbands person and goods for her use . answ. two or three ( yea one beleever ) and these not entred in church-state , but beleeving in christ , have received christ and his power in all christian priviledges due to that state : true ; they have received christ and his power in all ministeriall and church-priviledges , it is false ; nor can our brethren admit of this by their grounds : for then should they have right in their owne person to preach pastorally , and administrate the sacraments ; if christ and the pastorall power to such acts cannot be divided , and if they have as immediate right to use the keys in pastorall acts as the wife hath to the husband and goods . also ( saith he ) b of the churches of the gentiles , some were converted to god by apostles , others by private christians , acts . . and . , , , . and . , , . and . , , . and . , . can we in reason thinks , during the apostles absence , that the churches never assembled together for edification in praying , prophesying , and other ordinances ? were not all they converts , who desired to be admitted to their fellowship ? had they not use of excommunication ? the apostles came but occasionally to the churches , where they appointed elders , acts . . why did paul leave titus at crete , save onely that men of gifts might be trained up in prophesying ? answ. all here said is conjecturall , he cannot give us an instance of a church exercising church-power , and destitute of officers , onely he saith , can we conceive that in the apostles absence there was no church meetings for edification ? but were there no elders and officers in the apostolike church , but onely apostles ? i thinke there have beene pastors , and when the apostles first left the planted churches , can we conceive that they left new converted flockes without pastors ? and if without officers they met for prophecying , can wee conceive that they wanted the seales of the covenant ? certainly , sacraments without officers are no rules for us to follow . secondly , of conversion by private persons , i purpose to speake hereafter ; if they preached , it is not ordinary , nor a rule to us . thirdly , at crete there have beene preachers , but of government without them i see nothing ; since elders timothy and titus are limitted in receiving accusation : against elders , and are forbidden to lay hands suddenly on any man ; i see not how the people without officers did this . it is good , that this church that they give us , is all builded upon conjectures , and an unwritten church is an unwritten tradition . if the apostles appointed elders in the church for this end , to governe ; wee gather the contrary of your collections . ergo , there was no government in the churches before there were governours , for the end could not be existing in gods wisdome without the meanes ; that watchmen should goe about the walls before the city bee walled , and discipline erected , i cannot conceive : without officers , the ordinary disciplinators , the city of god can be no governing city . it is ( saith he ) strange where multitudes are converted ; and that where neither apostles nor officers were present , that there were no churches here ; it is grosse to say . that in the apostles times nothing was begun but by them . a. there was conversion of multitudes to the lord ; ergo , there was a church-covenant in stating them all in church-state ; you cannot say it your selves . secondly , it is not grosse , but apostolike , that all new acts of government should take their beginning from the apostles , as the chusing of matthias , acts . the ordaining of deacons , acts . the preaching to the gentiles , acts . had their beginning from the apostles , who founded and planted churches . . quest. whether or not ordination of elders may be by the church of beleevers wanting all elders or officers . here these particulars must be discussed ; first , from whence is ordination of elders from elders or from the people . secondly , if election by the people be all that is requisite in a lawfull calling . thirdly , the argument from the calling of our reformers must be discussed . for the first , observe the following considerations : first , a succession in the church is necessary ordinarily ; extraordinarily , and in cases of necessity it may be wanting . secondly , we deny the popish succession to be a note of the church , nor doe we in any sort contend for it . first , because a right succession must be a succession to truth of doctrine , not personall or totall to the chaire and naked office . so a tertullian , and falshood may succeed to truth , sicknesse to health , as b nazianzen . yea , as c occam saith , laymen and teachers extraordinarily raised up , may succeed to hereticall pastors . secondly , there is succession to the errors of preceding teachers , either materiall without pertinacie , holding what they hold ; or formall to the same errors , with hatred of the truth and pertinacie ; the latter we reject , the former may be in lawfully called pastors . see what beza d saith of this . neither will we here go from true succession , whereas e ireneus saith , men , cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis acceperunt . and as f augustine , when they doe prove themselves to be the church onely by scriptures , non nisi caenonic is libris . thirdly , we deny not but asia , africa , egypt , and a great part of europe heard not a word of christ for a long time , as binnius g observeth in the h la●eran councell . and succession was interrupted many ages in the world , saith i prosper and k augustine . nor can l bellarmine deny it . . we desire that more may be seene of this also in m 〈◊〉 , n cyprian , o augustine . and a great iesuit p suariz in words passeth from this note . the epistles of a●acletus to all ingenious men , except to such as stapleton , are counterfeit ; and the greeke church hath as much of th●s as the roman , and more . antiochia , alexandria , and constantinople , may say more for it also . distinct. it is one thing to receive ordination from a p●●lat● lawfully and another thing to receive lawfull ordination . the former w● deny ; ministers si●ne who receive ordination from a pr●late , as they sinne , who receive baptisme from the romish church ; yet is the ordination lawfull and valid , because prelacy , though different in nature from the office of a true pastor , is consistent in the same subject with the pastors office . . distinct. though election by the people may make a minister in some cases , yet it is not the essentiall cause of a called pastor , as a rose caused to grow in winter by art is of that same nature with ar●se produced by nature in summer , though the manner of production be different . so are they both true pastors , those who have no call ba● the peoples election , and those who have ordination by pastors . . distinct. the substance and essence of ordination ( as we sh●● after heare ) consisteth in the appointing of such for the holy ministery by persons in office . all the corrupt rites added to this by papists , take not away the essence and nature of ordination . for the greeke church , even this day at rome , receiveth ordination by imposition of hands , & not by the reaching a cup and a platter , and that with the popes good will. whereas the lati● church have far other ceremonies following the decree of e●ginius the fourth , and the common way of rome , approved by q innocentius the third , and yet they grant both wayes of ordinations lawfull ; because as r bellarmine , s uasq●● t joan. de lugo the popes professor this day at rome saith , these are but accidents of ordination ; and because ( say they ) christ ordained that this sacrament should be given by some materiall signe , but whether by imposition of hands , or otherwise , he hath not determined in individuo ( particularly : ) see for this , peter arcudius his reconciliation of the easterne and vve●erne church u in the councell of florence . x the greek church is not blamed , though imposition of hands be commanded in b the councell or carthage . see that variations may be in a sacrament , and yet such as make not the sacrament invalid , in c sotus d suarez , e vasquez , f ioan. de lugo , g scotus . but since h robinson granteth , that the baptisme of the romish church is not to be repeated , ordination of pastors is of that same nature , and must stand valid also . hence our first conclusion . in cases of necessity , election by the people onely may stand for ordination , where there be no pastors at all . this is proved before by us ; i first , because god is not necessarily tied to succession of pastors . secondly , because where men are gifted for the worke of the ministery , and there be no pastors to be had , the giving of the holy ghost is a signe of a calling of god , who is not wanting to his owne gracious intention , though ordinary meanes faile . and see for this that learned voetius k nor do we thinke that we are in this straited , as the papist iansenius l in that place saith , that wee must wait for an immediate calling from heaven , as also m robinson saith . . conclus . thence may well be deduced that they are lawfull pastors , and need not a calling revealed , who , in cases of extraordinary necessity , are onely chosen by the people , and not ordained by pastors ; and that pastors ordained by pastors , as such , are pastors of the same nature ; as matthias called by the church , and paul immediately called from heaven , had one and the same office by nature . . conclus , the established and setled order of calling of pastors , is by succession of pastors to pastors , and elders by elders , tim. . . lay hands suddenly on no man. tim. . . neglect not the gift which was given to thee by proph●cie , with the laying on of the hands of the elders . secondly , the practice of the apostles is our safe rule , because at all ordination of church-officers the apostles and pastors were actors and ordainers , as acts . , . acts . . . acts. . . cor. . . tit. . . and this a robinson granteth , because the charge of all the churches did lie on the apostles . as also before the law , the people did not ordaine the priest hood , but god ordained the first borne by succession to be teachers and priests ; b and after he chose the tribe of levi , without consent of the people , though the princes and heads of tribes said hands upon them . and also god of sundry other tribes raised up prophets , and did immediately call them , they had onely of the people not the calling , bu●●●t the least the silent approbation of the faithfull amongst the people . christ comming in the flesh chose twelve apostles not knowing either the governing church or the people ; at length , when the apostles established a church-government , and a pastor to a certaine flocke , they ordained that the ch●sing of the man should be with consen of the people , and beg●n this in ma●thias , then the seven deacons , then acts . . elders were chosen by lasting up of the peoples hands . but that persons were ordained pastors and sanctified , and set apart for the worke of the ministery , by the authority of the sole multititude , and that without all officers , we never read . and the laying on of the hands we see not in the new testament ; we shall be d●si●ous to be informed of this by our deare brethren , and intreat them in the feare of the lord to consider of an unwritten calling of a ministery . thirdly , if ordination of pastors bee laid downe in the apostolike canons to officers , as officers , then is not this a charge that doth agree to the people , especially wanting officers . but the former is true ; ergo , so is the latter . i prove the proposition : what is charged upon officers as officers cannot be the charge of the people , because the people are not officers . i prove the assumption , because tim. . , . to commit to faithfull men the things of the gospell , which timothy heard paul preach , is a charge laid on timothy in the very tearms , that he is vers . . not to intangle himselfe with the affairs of this life , but to be separated for preaching the gospell , from all worldly imployment ; as a souldier sworne to hi● captaine , can attend no other calling , vers . . and as he is to put other pastors in minde of these things , and to charge them that they strite not about words ; and as he is to be an approved workman , dividing the word aright , vers . . . but these are laid upon timothy as a pastor . so tim. . as he sheweth the honour and reward due to elders , so doth he charge timothy not to heare accusations of elders , but upon two or three witnesses testimony , which is the part of church-iudges ; even as hee is to rebuke sinne publikely , that others may feare , vers . , . so according to that same office , must imposition of hands be conserred upon pastors advisedly , vers . . as the apostle commandeth all beleevers to lay hands suddenly on no man. also paul would have said , i left a church of beleevers at crete to appoint elders in every city ; if it be the churches part , even though destitute of elders to appoint elders over themselves , but by what po●er titus was to rebuke sharpely the cretians , that they may be found in the saith , by that power was he left at crete to appoint elders in every city ; but this is an officiall power , titus . . due to bishops , as a part of their qualification , vers . . . argu. the speciall reason against ordination of elders , by elders onely , is weake ; and that is , a succession of pastors must be granted ever since the apostles times , which is ( say ourbrethren ) popish . this reason is weak , because a succession of elders and pastors , such as we require , is no more popish then a succession of visible beleevers ; and visible churches ordaining pastors , is popish : but our brethren maintaine a succession of beleevers and visible prosessors since the apostles daye . secondly , we deny the necessity of a succession perpetuall , which papists hold . thirdly , we maintaine onely a succession to the true and apostolike doctrine : papists hold a visible cathedrall succession to the chaire of rome , and titular office of peter . . quest. whether or not our brethren doe prove that the church of believers have power to ordaine pastors ? in answering our brethrens reasons ; i first returne to our author ; secondly , i obviate what our brethren say in the answer to a the questions sent from old england ; and thirdly , shall answer robinsons arguments . our b author saith , beleevers have power to lay hands on their officers , because to them christ gave the keyes ; that is , the ministeriall power of binding and loosing , matth. . , , . and acts . the voices of the people went as farre as any humane suffrages could goe , of an hundred and twenty they chose two . and acts . . the apostles ordained elders by the lifting up of the hands of the people . acts . they are directed to looke out and chuse seven men to be deacons . and the ancient church did so from cyprians words , c vlebs vel maxime potestatem habet , vel dign●s sacerdotes eligendi , vel indignos recusandi . answ. the places math. . and . give , to some power ministeriall to bind and loose , open and shue , by preaching the gospell , and administring the sacraments , as to stewards the keyes of an house are given : but this power is given to elders o●ely , by evidence of the place , and exposition of all divines . . if the ministeriall power and the warrantable exercise thereof , be given to all ; then are all ministers ; for the faculty and exercise doth denominate the subject and agent ; but that is false by d scripture . . that all the hundred and twenty did ordain● matthias an apostle , act. . is not said , they did nominate and present him . . they did choose him . but authoritative separation for the office was christs and his apostles worke . . that women , and mary the mother of iesus , v. . being there , had voice , and exercised authority in ordaining an apostle cannot be orderly . yea the apostles names are se● downe , and these words , v. . and they appointed two , are relative to v. . these words , for he was numbred with us the apostles , and to these v. . wherefore of these men which have companied with us , &c. and to these v. . must one be ordained to be witnesse with us of his resurrestion , and they appointed two , that is , the apostles ; and the rest are set downe as witnesses , v. . these continued , that is the apostles , with the women , and mary the mother of iesus , &c. the women and others were onely consenters . . here is no probation , that onely a company of believers wanting pastors are ordainers of matthias to the apostleship , and this is the question . . the place act. . . proveth that elders appoint or ordaine elder . with consent , or lifting up of the hands of the people , which is our very doctrine . . act. ▪ the multitude are directed to choose out seven men , as being best acquainted with them . yet if nicholas , the sect master of the fleshly nicolaitans was one of them ; it is likely they were not satisfied in conscience of the regeneration of nicholas , by hearing his spirituall conference and his gift of praying , which is your way of trying church-members . but . they looke out seven men . . they choose the● . but v. . the apostles prayed , and laid their hands on them ( which we call ordination ) and not the multitude . . cyprian give●● election of priests to the multitude , but neither cyprian , nor any of the fathers give ordination to them . author sect. . if the people have power to elect a king , they have power to appoint one is their name to put the crown on his head . ergo , if beleevers elect their officers they may by themselves or some others lay hands on them and ordaine them . ans. the case is not alike , the power of electing a king is naturall , for ants and locusts have it , prov , , . therefore a civill society may choose and ordaine a king. the power of choosing officers is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a supernaturall gift . and because god giveth to people one supernaturall gift , it is not consequent that he should give them another , also beside ordination is another thing , then coronation of a king. presbyters in the word have alwaies performed ordination . neither will it hence follow ( saith the authour ) as some object that because the church of believers neither make the office nor authority of pastors , that both are immediately from christ , and that therefore the beleevers may not lay hands upon the officers ; nor doth it follow , because they receive ordination from the church , that therefore they should execute their office in the churches name ; or that they should be more or lesse diligent at the churches appointment , or that the church of beleevers have a lordly power over them , or that the elders must receive their commission from the church , as an ambassadour doth from the prince who sent him , or that the church in the defect of officers may performe all duties proper to officers , as to administer the sacraments . for . most of the objections doe strike as much against imposition of hands by bishops and presbyters . . though officers receive the application of their office and powerly the church , yet not from the church ; and if from the church , yet not from her by any lordly power and dominion , but onely ministerially as from instruments under christ , so that they cannot choose or ordaine whom they please , but onely him whom they see the lord hath fitted and prepared for them ; nor can they prescribe limits to his office , nor give him his embassage , but onely a charge to looke to the ministery that he hath received of the lord. ans. . i know none of ours who use such an argument , that because a pasters or elders office is from christ , that therefore the church cannot ordaine him . for it should prove that the presbyterie cannot ordaine him a pastor , because his office is from christ and not from the presbyterie . it would prove also , that because the office of a judge is from god , that the free states of a kingdome could not ordaine one to be their king ; or that the king could not depute judges under him , because the office of a king and judge is from god , and not from men . . if elders have their ordination to that heavenly charge from the people , as from the first principall and onely subject of all ministeriall power , i see not how it doth not follow , that elders are the servants of the church in that respect ; and that though it doth not follow , that they come out in the name of the church , but in the name of christ , whose ambassadours they are , yet it proveth well that they are inferiour to the church of beleevers . for . though the power of the keys given to beleevers in relation to christ be ministeriall , yet in relation to the officers whom the church sendeth , it is more then ministeriail , at lest it is very lordlike . for as much of this ministeriall power is committed to the church of possibly twenty or forty beleevers , as to the mistresse , lady , spouse , and independent queen , and highest dispencer of all ministeriall power ; and the elders , though ambassadours of christ , are but meere accidents or ornaments of the church , necessary ad benè esse onely , and lyable to exauthoration at the churches pleasure ; yea , every way the officers in jurisdiction are inferiour to the church of beleevers , by your grounds , and not over the people of the lord. for if the church of believers , as they are such , be the most supreame governing church , then the officers , as officers , have no power of government at all , but onely so farre as they are beleevers ; now if they be not believers ( as it falleth out very often ) then have they no power of the keyes at all , and what they doe , they doe it meerely as the churches servants , to whom the keyes are not given marriage-waies , or by right of redemption in christs blood : yea , officers as they are such , are neither the spouse , not redeemed church , yea nor any part , or members of the redeemed church . . the church of believers are the ●od , the officers meanes leading to the end , and ordained to gather the saints ; if therefore , as the end , they shall authoritatively send officers , they should call and ordaine officers as the states of a kingdome , with more then a power ministeriall ; yea with a kingly power , for all authority should be both formally and eminently in them , as all regall or aristocraticall power is in the states of a kingdom , as in the fountaine . but neither doe we bring this argument to prove a simple dominion of the church of believers over the officers , or a power of regulating , limiting , and ordering the ambassage of officers , as king and state lay bands upon their ambassadours ; but we bring it to prove that this doctrine degradeth the officers from all power of government above the believers , and putteth them in a state of ministeriall authority under these , above whom jesus christ hath placed them , contrary to a scripture . . the authour saith , believers may not administer the sacraments in the defect of pastors , because that , by appointment of christ , belongeth onely to such as by office are called to preach the gospell , math. . . which is indeed well said ; but i desire to be satisfied in these . . these places math. . . mar. . , . luke . . being all one with math. . . and joh. . , , . the keyes of the kingdome are given to church-officers because of their office. so the text is cleare , and so the ancients have taught , as tertullian , irenaeus , origen , cyrill . theophylact. oecum●nius ▪ clemens alexandrin ▪ iustin martyr , chrysost. august . hilarius , ambrose , basil. epiphanius , ierome , eusebius , cyprian , damascen , beda , anselme , bernard . so our divines , calvin , luther , beza , martyr , iunius , bullinger , gualt●r , daneus , ti●enus , bucanus , trelcatius , piscator , pareus , tossanus , polanus , decolampadius , bucer , hipperius , viret , zuinglius , fennerus , whittakerus , feildus , reynoldus , anto. wallaeus , profess . leydens . magdeburgersis , melanthon , chemnitius , hemingius , aretius . then the keyes be given to church-officers , because they are officers , and stewards of the kingdome . and you will have the keyes to be given to believers as believers , and as the spouse of christ. now elders and believers may be opposed , as believers and no believers , as the church of the redeemed , and not the church of the redeemed , but the accidents onely of that church ; as you teach , and as the spouse of christ and his body , and not the spouse nor his body . i see not by our brethrens doctrine that officers as officers have any right title or warrant to the keyes , or to any use of them , seeing they are given to believers as believers , and as christs body and spouse . . the place matth. . . is against you ; for you say , that pastorall preaching and administration of the seales are given onely to such as are preachers by office . now the converting of infidels and other unbelievers , to make them fit materials of a visible church , is not ( as you say ) the charge proper to pastors as pastors , and by vertue of their pastorall charge , as baptizing ; by this place is their proper charge , because pastors as pastors convert none at all , nor can they as pastors exercise any pastorall acts toward the un-converted ; the un-converted by your way are under no pastorall charge , but converted by prophets , not in office ; pastors as pastors exercise all pastorall acts toward these onely who are members of a visible church , as toward these onely who have professed by oath subjection to their ministery , ad are partakers of the precious faith , and are the sonnes and daughters of the lord god almighty . so you teach . so by this text , pastors as pastors cannot convert infidels , and we desire a warrant from gods word for the pastorall acts in converting soule● ; yea , seeing by this place persons out of office onely doe convert soules by your doctrine , with all reason persons out of place should baptize , for teaching and baptizing here , and by your owne doctrine are of a like extent . see to this , and satisfie us in this point of such consequence as everteth the ministery of the new testament , which we believe our brethren intend not , being so direct anabaptatisme and socinianisme , points that , we know , our deare brethren doe not love or affect . the author addeth , he who said to the apostles , whose sinnes ye retaine they are retained , and whose sinnes ye remit they are remitted , joh. . . he also said to the church , whatsoever ye bi●● on earth shall be bound in heaven . math. . . which is a commission of the same power , and to the same ●ffect ; and so the apostles and the churches both received the same power immediately from christ : and therefore though the church presented their officers chosen by themselves to receive ordination from the apostles , 〈◊〉 now when the apostles are ceased , and no other successors left in t●●● roome from whom their officers might receive ordination , but fr●● the presbyterie of their owne churches ; where such a presbytery is yet wanting , and is now to be erected , the church hath full power to give ordination to them themselves , by the imposition of their hands . answ. if the reverend authour had framed an argument here , it should have been thus : those who have received immediately from god a commission of the same power , and to the same effect , by the text math. . . which the apostles of our lord received by the text , joh. . . these may doe what the apostles did in ordaining of elders , seeing they are the successors of the apostles , where there be no elders . but the church of believers received the same commission , matth. . . which the apostle did joh. . . and where edders are wanting in the church , the church of believers is their successors . erge . &c. first , the assumption is false ; for if the church receive the same commission math. . the apostles received joh. . and you must adde math. . . for the same commission is given to the apostles , math. . . which is given joh. . . but the disciples received commission , ioh. . and math. . of pastorall binding and loosing , and preaching , by vertue of their office ; and to administer the sacraments in their owne persons , as you grant : therefore the church of believers received commission from christ ( where presbyters are not ) to preach by vertue of an office , and administer the sacraments in their owne persons . ergo , the church of believers may , where there is no presbytery , preach by verue of an office , and administer the sacraments . you will happily say , there is no such necessity of baptizing as of ordination of ministers , and baptizing is incommunicable , because we read not that any in the apostolique church baptized , but pastors . i answer , there is , in an extraordinary necessity where there are no presbyters at all , as little necessity of ordination if there be presbyters in other congregations to ordaine ▪ and since you never read that any in the apostolique church ordained pastors , but pastors onely ; why , but we may have recourse to a presbytery of other congregations for ordination , as well as for baptizing ; for it is petitio principii , a begging of the question , to say that baptizing is proper to pastors , but ordination is not so . yea but ordination by precept & practice is never given but to pastors , and elders in consociation tin. tim. . . tim. . . tim. . , . tit. . . act. . . act. . act. . . there is good reason why pastors should be successours of the apostles in the act of ordaining pastors ; & you grant , where pastors and elders are , they succeed to the apostles in the acts of ordination ; but that all believers men and women should be the apostles successours to ordaine pastors , is a rare and unknowne case of divinity , for cor. . . are all apostles ? are all prophets ? yea , not long agoe you said that act. . an hundred and twenty , amongst whom there were women , had all hand in the ordination of matthias to be an apostle ; so that beleevers by you are made the apostles successours ; and more , yea even co-ordainers , and joynt-layers on of hands with the apostles . yea , if believers received immediately this same commission from christ , math. . which the apostles received ioh. . believers are to ordaine pastors no lesse , when the presbytery and elders are present , then when they are absent ; yea , and rather then the apostles , because the church of beleevers their patent passed the seales first , even before the lords resurrection . . it is good you grant that ordination and election are different , we will make use of it hereafter . the authour addeth , we willingly also acknowledge , where god hath furnished a church with a presbytery , to them it appertaineth by imposition of hands to ordaine elders and deacons chosen by the church ; but if the church want a presbytery , they want a warrant to repaire to other churches to receive imposition of hands to their elders . . because ordination is a worke of church power , now as church hath power over another , so no presbytery hath power over another church then their owne ; all the apostles received alike power , ioh. . . the power of the keyes is a liberty purchased by christs blood , math. . . phil. . , . therefore it is unlawfull for any church to put over that power into the hands of another . answ. we desire a warrant from gods word , where elders , where they are present , are to ordaine elders by imposition of hands , and not believers ; for ordination is a worke of the church ; officers are not the church , nor are they parts or members of the church , but onely accidents ; the church hath its full being , the power and use of the keyes given to them by math. . though there be not a pastor or officer among them ; and if christ before his resurrection gave the keyes to beleevers as to his spouse , living body , and such as have peters faith math. . resolve us , we beseech you brethren , in this , how christ can give the keyes after his resurrection , ioh. . . to the apostles as pastors , and as no believers , not his spouse , not his body ; for officers , as officers , are not the redeemed of god , nor christs spouse . if you say that christ , ioh. . gave the keyes to his disciples as beleevers , then he gave the power of baptizing after his resurrection also , by the parallel place math. . . to the apostles as to beleevers . hence . christ hath never given the keyes to officers as officers . . the place ioh. . is but a renewing of the keyes given to the church , math. . and math. . and all believers are sent and called to be pastors , as the father sent christ , and as christ sent his apostles , as our lord speaketh , john . . this i thinke all good men will abhorre , though m. smith saith these words , and that power iohn . . was given to cleo●has and mary magdalen . and by your way , paul ( as i thinke ) without warrant interdicted women of the use of that power , that christ purchased by his blood . . there is no warrant of the word to make good , that christ gave the keyes to officers as officers , by your way , but onely to officers as to beleevers ; and therefore believers ought rather to ordaine pastors then the officers , though there be officers to ordaine . . that pastors of other congregations may not ordaine pastors to congregations , who have no pastors of their owne . as they may baptize infants to them also , we see no reason . yea , and church power is not a thing that cannot be communicated to another church by your doctrine , for ye grant members of one congregation may receive the lords supper in another congregation , except you deny all communion of sister churches , for it is a worke of church power to give the lords supper to any , then if you give that sacrament to members of another congregation ; consider if the liberty purchased by christs blood be not communicable to other churches . thirdly , ( saith he ) if one church repaire to another church for ordination , they may submit to another church for censuring of offenders , now how can churches censure these that are not members ? is not this a transgression of the royall law of governement ? mat. . , , , . answ. the offence being great , and the offender deserving to be cast out of all the visible congregations round about , yea and to be bound in earth and heaven , the congregation is to have recourse to all the congregations consociated , when they are convened in one presbytery ; that they , being convened in their principall members , may all cast him out , because it concerneth them all : as if onely one congregation doe it , they transgesse that royall law , quod omnes tangit , ab omnibus tractari debet . . the author granteth , that the church presented their officers chosen by them , to receive ordination from the apostles ; ergo , the church did give a way their liberty of ordination , bought by christs bloud , to the apostles , not as to apostles , but as to pastors : which is against our brethrens doctrine ; for except the apostles bee said to ordaine officers , as pastors , and not as apostles , our brethren shall find none to be the successors of apostles in the power of ordination , but onely believers ; so pastors have no power at all to ordaine pastors , the contrary whereof our brethren teach . now i come to the brethrens minde in their questions . it was objected a how can it be lawfull for meere lay and private men to ordaine elders ? they answer , the persons ordaining are the publick assembly , and so cannot , in any congruity of speech , be called meere lay-men . i answ . seeing they have no church office , they can be nothing , but meere private men ; for the unwarrantable action of ordination maketh them not publick officers . as if a midwife baptize in the name of the church , shee is not a meere private person . . they say , the church hath power from christ for the greater , to wit , for election ; ergo , she hath power to doe the lesse , which is ordination ; or ordination dependeth upon election , and it is nothing but the putting of a person in actuall possession of that office , wherunto he had right by election . answ. ordination , by your owne grant , is more then election , for the apostles ordained , acts . and must have done the most , and the multitude elected the seaven deac̄ons , acts . ordination is more then the installing of a person chosen , it is a supernaturall act of the presbytery separating a man to an holy calling , election is posterior to it , and is but an appropriation of a called person his ministery , to such a particular flock . . say they ; ordination may be performed by the elders , where there be elders , tim. . . yet it is an act of the whole church , as the whole man seeth , but by the eye . answ. though you say , pastors in the churches name baptize , yet doth it not follow ; ergo , where pastors are not , the church of believers may baptize . . they object , when the church hath no officers , the prime grave m●n performe ordination ; as nu● . , the israelites layd on hands on the levites , that is , some prime man layd on hands . answ. israel wanted not officers . . these prime men are called the congregation ; ergo , there is a representative church . . they object ; if b lievers may not ordaine , it shall follow either that officers may minister without ordination , against the sripture , tim. . . heb. . . or , by vertue of ordination received in another church , they might minister . now if this be , we establish an i●d●l●ble character of papists , but if being called to another church , there be need of a new election , then there is need of a new ordination , for that dependeth upon this ; ergo , then ordination commeth by succession , but we see not what authority ordinary officers have to ordaine pastors to a church , whereof themselves are not members . answ. . that ordination be wanting , where ministers are wanting , is extraordinary , and not against , tim. . no more then that one not baptized for want of a pastor should yet believe in christ. . we see no indeleble character , because a pastor is alwayes a called pastor ; if the man commit scandals , the church may call all his character from him , and turne him into a meere private man. but to renew ordination , when election to another congregation is renewed , is to speake ignorantly of ordination and election : for election maketh not the man a minister , nor giveth him a calling , but appropriateth his ministery to such a flock . but they speake of election to a charge as of marriage , which is not well understood , for by marriage a man is both made a husband , and a husband to this wife onely : by election a pastor is not made a pastor , by ordination he is made a pastor of the church universall , though hee be not made an universall pastor . . the ordination by succession of pastors , where pastors are , you hold your selves . but a popish personall succession , wee disclaime , as well as you doe : the . objection i omit to another time . the . * objection is ; if there be a magistrate before , the succeeding magistrate receiveth keys or ( word from the preceding magistrate : but if there be none , he receiveth them from the people . so here . answ. christs calling is not ordered according to the patterne of civill governments , his kingdome is not of this world . people may both ordaine and elect to a civill office , without consent of the preceding magistrate . but we reade of no officers ordained by the people , only in an ordinary way . ordination ( say they ) is not of such eminency as is conceived , it is not mentioned in the apostles first commission , mat. , . marke . , . the apostles accompted preaching and praying principall . so a perkins b vvillet c vvhittaker , d amesius . answ. so answer arminians e and so doth the socinian f theol. nicolaides , and g socinus ; and so in your words saith h to reforme , but this is not to take away the necessity of ordination , by pastors . i come now to answer , what mr. robinson doth adde , to what is said for the ordination of pastors by pastors , and not by single believers , mr. robinson i saith , the question is , whether succession of pastors be of such absolute necessity , as that no minister can in any case be made but by a minister , and if they must be ordained by popes , and prelates . answ. but we say that this is no question at all , wee affirme ordination of pastors not to be of that absolute necessity , but in an exigence of necessity the election of the people , and some other thing , may supply the want of it . nor doe wee thinke a calling from papists no calling , as we shall heare : before i proceed this must be discussed . q. . uuhether election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a minister . ● . election we are to consider , to whom it belongeth of right . . the force and influence thereof to make a church-officer ; but let these considerations first be pondered . . consid. election is made either by a people gratious and able to discerne , or by a people rude and ignorant ; the former is valid , jure & facto , the latter not so . . consid. election is either comparative or absolute ; when election is comparative , though people have nothing possibly positively to say against a person , yet though they reject him and choose one si●ter , the election is reasonable . . consid. peoples election is not of a person to the ministery as a vvi●is choyse of a man to be a husband , but of a minister ; election doth not make a minister . . consid. election is either to be looked to , quoad jus , or , quoad f●ctum . a people not yet called externally , cannot elect their own minister , a synod or others of charity ( as reverend junius a saith ) may chuse for them , though , de facto , and in respect of their case , they cannot chuse their own pastor . . conclus . the people have gods right to chuse , for so the b word prescribeth . so c tertullian , d eyprian . non blandiatur sibi plebs , quasi immunis à contagione delicti esse possit , cum sacerdote peccatore communicans & ad injustum atque illicitum propositi episcopatum consensum s●um accommodans , &c. and d nefas sine consensu po●uli : and this cyprian writ an hundreth yeeres before the nicen councell . bellarmine lo●ed hi● face e to say this custome began in the time of the nicon councell . it was not a consuetude f qu●d ipsum ( inquit cyprianus ) videmus de divina autoritate descender● ; g ignatius , it is your part , as the church of god to chuse the pastor ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so speaketh hee to the people of philadelphia ; and so speaketh h ambrose to valentinian , omitto , quia jam ipse populus judicavit , i origen : requiritur ergo in ordinando sacerd te praesentia populi , &c. and his reason is scripture , a pastor must be of good report . and k chrysostome saith , all elections of pastors are null , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without the conscience of the people . and the councell of nice did write this to the bishops of alexandria as l theodoret saith , and the fi●st generall councell of constantinople wrote the same to daemasus , ambrose , and others , as m theodoret also sheweth n the councell of africa is cited by cyprian producing scripture , as acts . . acts . to prove that the people had their consent in elections ; and o the councell of chalcedon p the councell of ancyron , and q of laodicea ; and the popes owne r canons say this , s so nicolaus the pope in his decrees saith , the clergy and people did chuse the pope , reliquus clerus & populus romanus ad consensum nova electionis pontificis à cardinalibus factae accedant . so t gelasius the pope writeth to philippus and cernuti●● bishops , so stephanus ad romanum u archiepiscopum rav●●natensem , is cited in the glosse to that purpose ; in x the epistles of ivo bishop of chartres , we being called , by the will of god , the cle●gy and people of such a city , and this pope ur●●● practised upon ivo . . conclus . but elections in the ancient church were not by one single congregation , but by the bishops of diverse other churches . in the y councell of sardis , si unum tantùm in provincia contigerit remanere episcopum , suporstes episcopus con●●care debet episcopos vicinae provinciae . & cum iis orainare sibi comprovincales episcopos ; quod si id facero negligat , populus convocare debet episcopos vicinae provinciae & peter● sibi rectorem . in the z councell of toledo it was ordained , that the bishop of toledo might chuse in quibustibee pr●vinciis , in any provinces about bishops to be his successors , salvo privilegio unius●njusqu● provinciae . cardinalls are forbidden to usurp to chuse a bishop , if the see vace in the time of a generall councell , this was enacted in the councell of * constance and a basil. the abbot of panormo saith , it was obtained of the councell of carthage b to avoyde dissension , that they should transfer their right to the cardinalls . so c almain and d gerson prove the equity of this by good reasons . that wicked councell of trent , labouring to exalt the popes chaire , did abrogate these good acts to the offence of many , as the author e of the review of the councell of trent sheweth ; nor should good men stand for leo his abrogation of what the councell of basil did in this kinde , as may be seene in that wicked councell of lateran f wherein much other wicked power is given to the pope and his legates by iulius iii. and paul the iii. and pius the iiii. and g theodoret saith , all the bishops of a province ought to bee at the ordination of a bishop . the ordination of the worthy , ambrose , as hee h himselfe saith , was confirmed by all the bishops of the east and west . cornelius bishop of rome was confirmed by the bishops of africa . more of this may be seene in i zonaras , in k theodoret l the councell of carthage and m petrus a navarre , who all witnes ordination of a bishop was never done in the ancient church by one single congregation , and these destitute of pastors and elders . the learned say , that gregory the vii . or hildebrand did first exclude the people from voycing in elections of pastors . illiricus sayth onely from the time of frederick the xi . about the yeare , they were excluded from this power . and though it were true , that the election of alexander the iii. was made yeeres before that , by the cardinalls onely , without the peoples consent , the law and logick both say ; from one fact no law can be concluded . yea the election of gregory the vii . ( saith n vasquez ) was five hundred yeeres before that , and like enough that such a monster and such a seditious head to the lords annoynted to henry the iiii , as this gregory was , could violate christs order . o platina sayth so ; yet bellarmine , suarez and others grant , in the apostles time it was so ; b●● because it was a positive law ( some say ) and others that it was a church constitution , not a divine law , the pope might change it . yet the jesuite sanctius p in his comment proveth it from scripture , q azorius sayth , it should be common law , communi jure , r krantius layeth the blame of wronging the people in this , on gregory the ix . yea s the councell of bracare , the t second councell of nice ; the councell of constantinople . called the eight generall councell u the councell of * laodicea are corruptly expounded by x bellarmin . y v●squez and others : because . . they forbid onely disorder and confusion . . that all the multiude , without exceptionosage , gifts , or sexes , should come , and speak and voyce at the election . for in the councell of antioch z it is expressely forbidden that the multitude should be debarred . and wee will not deny but a pastor may be sent to a church of infidels that knoweth nothing of christ , without their knowledge , as a ruffinu● sayth , that frumentius was ordained bishop to the indians , they knowing nothing of it , indis nihil scientibus neque cogitantibus . epiphanius writeth to iohn bishop of ierusalem , that hee had ordained paulinianus a presbyter , the people not consenting . gregorius ordained augustine bishop of england and sent him to them to teach them , anglis nescientibus . and gregorius ii. ordained bonifacius a bishop to bee sent to germany , germanis nihil de eare cogitantibus . and thus b perkins , if the gospell should arise in america , where there were no ministers , ordination might be wanting . and why not ( say i ) election also in another case , if as c petrus martyr sayth well ; a woman may be a preacher of the gospell ; yea , and a turke ( sayth d zanchius ) converted by reading the new testament , and converting others , may baptize them whom hee converteth , and be baptized where both ordination and election should be wanting : and this may answer what e robinson saith for ordination by the people . nor did the people first begin to have hand in election in f tertullians time , as bellarmine saith , nor yet that the people might love their bishops , nor yet by meere custome . conclus . iii. it is false our g brethren say , that the calling of a minister consisteth principally and essentially in election of the people , for the apostles were essentially pastors , yet not one of them , except matthias was chosen by the people . . if , as our brethren say , the peoples after acceptance may supply the want of election at first , as iacobs after consent to leah made her his wife , yet all the pastorall acts of word , sacraments , and censures going before the after consent shall be null , because he wanteth that which most principally and essentially is required in a calling . and all baptized by him must be rebaptized . and what if the people shall never assent , and it is ordinary that hypocrites in hearts will never consent to the ministry of a gratious pastor , shall his acts of converting , and baptizing be no pastorall acts , and to the hypocrites no pastorall acts : and shall all be infidels , who are baptized by him ? the people are not infallible in their choise , and may refuse a man for a pastor , whom god hath called to be a pastor ; election maketh not one a pastor , in foro dei , then he shall be no pastor whom god hath made a pastor , because people out of ignorance or prejudice consent not to his ministery . nor are we of dr. ames judgement , that the calling of a minister doth essentially consist in the peoples election ; for his externall calling consisteth in the presbyters separation of a man for such a holy calling , as the holy ghost speaketh . wee finde no church-calling in all gods word of sole election of the people , and therefore it cannot be the essentiall forme of a right calling . all the arguments of doctor ames prove , that election is necessary to appropriate a made minister to such a congregation , but concludeth not the poyn . qu. . from whence had luther , calvin , and our blessed reformers their calling to the pastorall charge ? this question there is moved because of our brethren , who thinke . . if ordination of pastors by pastors , be so necessary for an ordinary calling to the ministery , and if election of people be not sufficient , though they want pastors and elders then luther and our reformers had no calling , for they were called by the pope and his clergy , for saith n robinson when there be no 〈◊〉 church-officers on earth to give ordination , we must hold with arrians , and expect new apostles to give ordination ; neither can a true , pastor go and seek a calling from a false pastor . hence observe carefully the following distinctions , to obviate both papists cavillations and our brethrens doubts . . distinct. that is . . properly extraordinary , which is immediately from god , without any other intervening cause ; so moses his calling , when god spake to him out of the bush to goe to pharaoh and command the letting goe of his people , was extraordinary , for , both the matter of the calling , and the persons designation to the charge was immediately from god luthers calling this way was not extraordinary , because hee preached no new gospell , nor by any immediate calling from god. . that is extraordinary which is contrary to the law of of nature . neither the calling of luther nor of hus and wiccliff was extraordinary ; for , that any inlightened of god and members of the catholick church should teach , informe , o● helpe their fellow-members being seduced , and led by blind guides , is agreeable to the law of nature ; but according to our brethrens grounds luthers calling here , was not onely extraordinary , but unlawfull and contrary to a divine law. for now when apostles are ceased , luher had no warrant ( if our brethren say right ) no calling of god , to exercise pastorall acts of preaching , converting soules to christ , and baptizing through many visible churches & congregations , because that is ( say they ) apostolick ; and no man now can bee a pastor , but in one fixed congregation whereof he is the elected pastor . . that is extraordinary , which is beside a divine positi●● law. so that one should be chosen a pastor in an iland where there be no elders nor pastors at all , and that the people onely give a calling , is extraordinary , and so it is not inconvenient tha● something extroardinary was in our reformers . . that is extraordinary , which is against the ordinary corruptions , wicked and superstitious formes of an ordinary caling : so , in this sense , luher and our reformers calling was extraordinary . . dist. a calling immediately from god , and a calling from god , some way extraordinary , are farre different . an immediate calling often requireth miracles to confirme it , especially the matter being new , yet not alwayes ; john baptists calling was immediate , his sacrament of baptisme beside the positive order of gods worship , yet hee wrought no miracles , but an extraordinary calling may be , where there is an immediate and ordinary revelation of gods will , and requireth not miracles at all . . dist. though ordinarily in any horologe the higher wheele should move the lower , yet it is not against ordinary art , that the hotologe be so made as inferiour wheeles may move without the motion of the superiour . though by ordinary dispensation of gods standing law , the church convened in a synod should have turned about hus , wicliff , luther , to regular motions in orthodox divinity ; yet it was not altogether extraordinary , that these men moved the higher wheeles , and laboured to reforme them . cyprian urged reformation , aurelius bishop of carthage , augustin and the african bishops did the like , the bishop of rome ●epining thereat it is somewhat extraordinary that reformation should begin at schollers , and not at principall masters . . dist. a calling may be expresly and formally corrupt , in respect of the particular intention of the ordainers , and of the particular church , ex intentione ordinanris & operantis . thus luthers calling to bee a monke was a corrupt calling , and eatenus , and in that respect hee could not give a calling to others . but that some calling may be implicitely and virtually good and lawfull in respect of the intention of the catholick church and ex inte●tione op●ris & ipsius ordinationis , he was called ●o preach the word of god. . dist. luthers oath to preach the gospell did oblige him as a pastor , this is his calling according to the substance of his office , and is valid ; but his oath to preach the roman faith intended by the exacters of the oath was eatenus , in so far ▪ unlawfull , and did not oblige him . even a wife married to a turke , and swearing to bee a helper to her husband in promoving the worship of the mahomet , or being a papist is ingaged in an oath to promote romish religion ; if shee bee converted to the true faith of christ , needeth not to be married de novo , but remaineth a married wife ; but is not obliged by that unjust oath to promove these false religions , though the marriage oath , according to the substance of marriage duties , tieth her . . dist. a pastor may , and ought to have a pastorall care of the catholick church , as the hand careth for the whole body , and yet neither luther nor zuinglius are universall pastors , as were the apostles . for they had usurped no power of governing and teaching all churches : though , i professe , i see no inconvenience to say that luther was extraordinarily called by god , to goe to many churches , to others then to wittenberg , where hee had one particular charge , yea even through germany and the churches of saxony , and zuinglius through the helvetian and westerne churches , which yet doth not make them essentially apostles , because . . they were not witnesses of christs death , and resurrection , which as a new doctrine to the world , as apostles , they behoved to preach , acts . v. . they only revealed the old truth borne downe by an universall apostacy . . because they were not immediately called , nor gifted with diverse tongues . and the like i may say of athanasius , for men in an extraordinary apostacy to goe somewhat farther then to that which a particular church calleth them to , is not formally apostolick , yet lawfull . . a calling to the ministery is either such as wanteth the essentialls , as gifts in any messenger , and the churches consen● , or these who occupy the roome of the church , the church consen●ing , such a minister is to bee reputed for no minister . or. . an entry to a calling , or a calling , where diverse of the apostles requisites are wanting , may bee a valid calling , as if one enter as caiphas who entered by favour and money , and contrary to the law was high-priest but for a yeer : ●yet was a true high-priest , and prophecied as the high-priest . . if the church approve by silence , or countenance the ministery of a man who opened the church doore to himselfe , by a silver key , having given the prelate a bud . the ordinance of god is conferred upon him , and his calling ceaseth not to be gods calling , because of the sins of the instruments both taking and giving . . though luther was immediately called by men an. . by the church of vvittenberg as may be seene a in his writings as gerard b sheweth , and the jesuit becanus c saith , hee was called and ordained a presbyter , and so had power to preach and administer the sacraments , yet that hindereth not that his calling was ●●t from the church , whereof hee was a member , that is from the roman church , and from god , and that his calling to cast downe babylon was not from the church of rome : and his gifts being extraordinary . . his spirit heroick and supernaturally couragious , and so extraordinary . . his faith in his doctrine greate , that hee should so bee blessed with successe in his ministery extraordinary , his calling in these considerations may well bee called extraordinary , though not immediate or apostolick . . then wee may well acknowledge a middle calling betwixt an ordinary and every way immediate calling , and an extraordinary and immediate calling , for the calling of luther was neither the one , nor the other , in proper sense , but a middle betwixt two ; and yet not an immediate calling . see d sadaecl and e 〈◊〉 . . the question , if such a pastor bee called lawfully , is a question of fact not a question of law ; as this , if such an one be baptized and there be an invincible ignorance in a question of fact which excuseth . and therefore wee may heare a gifted pastor taken and supposed by the church , to have the churches calling , though indeed he received no calling from the church , at his entry . . conelus . to shew that our church was a visible church before luther arose , and that our reformers were lawfully called o● god , and h● church , is a question of fact : and cannot be proved by the word of god. because the word of god is not a chronicle of these who were the true church and truly called to the ministery since the apostles departed this life . . because these must be proved by sense , and the testimony of humane writtings , who can erre . . c●nclus . yet may it be gathered from humane writers , that the visible church of protestants this day , hath beene since the apostles dayes . i meane the determinate persons may be knowen by humane reasons and signes ; as . . if orthodox doctors are knowen to have lived in all ages since the apostles it is likely that there was a visible church , which approved of these doctors ; and if we teach that same doctrine in substance , that these doctors did , then hath our church , this determinate church , beene since the apostles time . but orthodox doctors are knowen to have lived in all ●ges as men of approved learning and soundnesse in the faith ; ergo , our present church visible hath continued since the apostles time . the proposition is probable , for these fathers would not be so renowned , if the church about thē had not approved their doctri● . it is probable ( i say ) because the writters against them have beene suppressed , false teachers have beeve spoken of and renowned , and true prophets ill reported of , mat. . , . i prove the assumption ; for there lived in the first age , iohn the baptist , the apostles , and polycarpus , the scholler of iohn ( as they say ) and ignatius . and in the . age , iustinus , clemens alexandrinus , ireneus , melito sardensis , theophilus . in the . age tertullian , cyprian , dyonisius , alexandrin , methodi●s , origen ; it is likely they opposed purgatory , prayer for the dead , reliques and the popes supremacy , which in their seede did arise in this age . in the . age were eusebius caesariensis , basilius , athanasius , magnus gregorius , nissenus , nazian . macarius , cyrillus bishop of jerusalem , arnobius , lactantius , ep●phanius , optatus melivitanus , hilarius , ambrose , prudentius , hieronymus , ammonius , ephrem , faeustinus . i thinke they opposed the infallibility of councells , invocation of saints , and the monastick life springing up in this age . in the . age were anastasius , chrysostome , augustine , alexandrinus , theodoretus , leo , socrates , vigilianus , cassianus , prosper , elutherius , marcus eremita , marius victorius . wee conceive these opposed the corrupt doctrine anent freewill , sinne originall , justification by works , mens merits . in the . age were fulgentius , cassiadorus , fortunatus , olympiodorus , gregorius mag●●s , max●ntius ; these opposed the heresies of this age , as the doctrine of worshipping images , indulgences , satisfactions , crossing , pilgrimages , service in an unknowen tongue , offerings for the dead , worshipping of reliques of saints , necessity absolute of baptisme , the making the sacrament a sacrifice for the dead . in the . age being a time of darknesse very few , isiodorus , and few others , here the holiest opposed the popes stile and place of being universall bishop , and the abominable sacrifice of the masse . in the . arose beda , paulus diaconus , joann , damascen , a superstitious monke , carolus magus , albinus ; in this age came in transubstantiation , the sacrament of penance , and confirmation . it was an evill time . in the . age were rabanus , haymo , re●igius , hinaemarus , pashasius , then extreme unction , orders , and marriage were made sacraments . in the . age was theophylact , smaragdus , giselbertus . in the . anselme , algerus . in the . schoole doctors , such as peter cluniarensis , alexander alensis , thomas aquinas , scotus , at length luther and melanthon came , but from these we build no infallible argument to prove our church to be the true church . . the very visible church that now is , was in the waldenses . . one of their owne writters a rainerus saith , quod duraverit à tempore sylvestri , alii dicunt quod à tempore apostolorum , a novator set out by the jesuite gretserus b petrus pilichdorffius saith , they arose eight hundereth yeeres after silvester in the time of innocentius the . in the city of walden in the borders of france one arose , who professed voluntary poverty , and because they were against preaching of the gospell , he and his followers were excommunicated , but he is found a lier by popish writters who lived long before innocentius the . and make mention of them . the articles of iohn hus , saith c aeneas silvius , cum confessionibus calvinianorum consonant , and silvius is not our friend . i grant d gretser denieth this , that the faith of such as are called calvinists agreeth with the articles of hus ; because hee will have them grosser e flaccius saith these waldenses called leonistae , their doctrine was spread , per l●mbardiam , alsatiam , totum tractum rhenanum , belgicam , saxoniam , pomeraniam , borussiam , poloniam , luciniam , sueviam , silesiam , b●h●miam , moraviam , calabriam , & siciliam . carolus lotharingus f the cardinall complaineth , as also g hegesippus , that for sixteene ages since christ , the first onely was of god , and of the church was a virgin. and none made these complaints , but these who were waldenses . so also complaineth h lactantius , and i isiodorus pelus●ota : why did l costerus taking on him to prove the succession of the roman church for yeeres , leaves . years blanck , where hee cannot finde his mother church ; and yet m nicephorus saith simon zelotes preached the gospell in maur●tania & aphrorum regione , even to brittaine , that is , to the end of the earth , yea balaeus , flemingus , sirop●s say , that ioseph of ●rimathea preached in bri●taine , and n tertullian in the second century which was his owne time saith the like . see the o centuriasts , yea and p barontus , and q origen about an . . saith the same ; and ierome r an . . gattia , britannia , africa , persis , oriens india , & omnes barbarae nationes u●um christum adorant , & unam observant regulam veritatis . what were all these but such as after were called vvaldenses ? and in the first ages s pius . saith , ante concilium nicenu●● parvus respectus babitus fuerat ad romanam ecclesiars ; before the nicen councill little respect was ●ad to th . church of rome . see this learnedly demonstrated by the learned t voetius , and his reason is good . ignatius , ireneus , iustin. martyr , cl●m . alexandr . tertullian , cyprian speak not one syllable of popery or popish articles ; also lucian , porphyrius , tryphe● , cellus , sosymus , symmachus , iulian , mockers of reiligon would have spoken against transubstantiation , one body in many thousand places , worshipping of dead bones , the worshipping of a tree , crosse , and dumbe images , and bread , a pope who could not erre , and they would have challenged and examined miracles , and i adde if they scoffed at the doctrine of these called after vvaldenses as the confession beareth , then were the church of waldenses ( though not under that name ) in their time . the jewes objected against the fathers tatian , theophilus , athenages , iustin , tertullian , alexand. cy●rian , chrysostome , isiodorus , hispalensis , iulianus po●nerius , they objected all they could devise against the christian faith , but not a word of poynts of popery now controversed ; ergo , popery hath not beene in the world then , an . . in the time of victor many opposed victors tyranny : and as plessaeus w and doctor molineus x saith , were called schismaticks therefore , and excommunicated . neither can gretserus y nor bellarmine z defend this , but by lies and raylings . yea from the . to the . age ( saith a voetius ) produce one martyr , professor , or doctor . see augustine de side ad petrum , ruffinus his exposition of the creed , g●nnadius of the articles of the church , theodoret his epitome divinorum decretorum , cyrillus his tract de fide , and produce one holding the popish faith. b clemens romanus and elutheri●s c in the epistle to the bishops of france maketh all bishops pastors of the church universall . any who readeth d gre●serus against pl●ssie may see in the . age that baronius and bellarmine cannot desend , that appeale was made to the pope in the councell of carthage , yea the popes legate brought apiarius to the councell , that his cause might be judged there , becaus● the pope could not judge it , and that the councell of chalcedon was , per precepta valentiniani , convened . and that canstantinople was equall with rome . that simplicius , g●lasius and symmachus were judges in their owne cause , and that hormisda an . . had no command over the o●ientall churches , as may be seene in e baronius . so pelagius the . ioan. the . and pelagius the . were refused the honour of universall bishops , and could not helpe the matter ; see f gretser , and g honorius must be defended as not denying two wills ; and two natures in christ. see what saith b●ronius of this . the councell of h constantinople would not receive the worshipping of images . the best part of the western churches were against it . the churches of france , germany , italy , brittaine . the i councell of franckford , of k paris , so did they all refuse the power of the pope . so occam , gerson , scotus , in most poynts were not papists . nor cajetan , contaren , alm●in , ioa , major , caranza . therefore said l thuanus the doctrine of the vvaldenses were now and then renewed by 〈◊〉 and hus , and when hildebrand came in , all know what wicked new poynts hee brought in , as in the tomes m of the councells may bee seene ; and n onuphrius sayth , quod major pars antea parum in usu fuerit ; the greatest part of his novelty not heard before , or little in use . his tyranny upon the consciences of church-men forbidding marriage : and over the lords people may be seene in o sleidan p in lampadius , and his forme of excommunicating the emperour as it is written by q beruriedenses and r sigonius , s also aventinus , t gerochus reicher sperge●sis t orthuinus ; gratius and others can tell . but ere i speake of this monster head i should not have omitted humble stephanus the . to whom lodovick the emperour , descending from his horse , fell down upon the earth thrice before his feete , and at the third time saluted him thus , blessed be the lord god , who commeth in the name of the lord , and who hath shined upon us . as u theganus saith that pashalis excuseth himselfe to the emperour lod. that hee had leapen to the popedome without his authority , which saith , this headship is not supreame , as x aimoinus saith , who was a murderer of theodorus , the roman churches seale-keeper and of le● . for having first put out their eyes , hee then beheaded them , say the same aimoinus , gregory the . caused lodovick the emperours sons to conspire against the father and was upon that plot himselfe . sergius the . made an act that a bishop should be convinced of no fault but under sevety and two witnesses . siconulphus a prince desiring to have this popes blessing , came to rome and kissed ( sayth y gretserus after z anastasius ) his precious feete . anguilbert archiepisc. mediolanensis departed out of the roman church for the pride of rome , and simon of sergius , sayth sigonius , a it was ordinary for all , sayth b anastasius , to kisse the seate of leo the . platina c saith , hee was guilty of a conspiracy against gratianus a godly and worthy man , to expell the french-men out of the kingdome and bring in the greciane● . gretser the jesuite saith , their owne platina is a lyer in this . wee all know there was an english woman-pope called ioanna , betwixt leo the . and benedictus the . bellarmine , baronius , gretser , lipsius will have it a fable . platina a popish writter is more to be believed then they all , for hee affirmeth it as truth . a great schisme arose in the church because benedictus the . was chosen pope without the emperours consent . the emperour did hold the bridle and lead the horse of nicolaus the . d gretser cannot deny this ) hee defended and maintained baldvinus , who was excommunicated by the bishops of france , because he ravished iuditha the daughter of c●rolus calvus . hee pleaded that there was no reason ; but the decretalls of the popes should be received as the word of god , but because they were not written in the bookes of church-canons : for by that reason some bookes of the old and new testament are not to be received as gods word ( e grets . ) said , these epistles were equall with gods word , and said , they had , neither these epistles , nor the scriptutes authority from the holy spirit , but from the church . that the church was foure hundred yeeres ignorant of the authority of the scriptures : that hee himselfe was jehova eternall , and that gratianus had inserted it in his distinct . . that hee was god. adrian the . approved of basilius his killing of michael the emperour his father . f onuphrius who observeth . schisms of antipopes thinketh schismatick popes , no popes , as benedict . . and honorius . clement . gregor . . celestinus : victor . some popes have beene declared hereticks by papists , as g gregorius . benedictus . in the councell , of pisa● ; and h iohn . in the councell of constance ; moreover bonifacius . sergius . benedictus . eugenius . iohn . and iohn . had no tolerable measure of learning to be priests , how then could they be universall prophets who could not erre ? liberius was an arrian ( as i athanasius and alphons . saith ) zepherinus was a montanist , as tertullian k saith . honorius was condemned , for saying christ had but one will , in l generall councells at constantinople , marcellinus sacrificed to idolls as m bellarmine confesseth ; faelix was an arrian and consecrated by an arrian bishop , ( as n hieronim . saith ) anastasius was a nestorian ( as o alphonsus saith ) iohn . said , soules did not see god untill the resurrection , as p erasmus saith ) innocentius . ordained the eucharist to be given to infants , as a jesuite saith q to wit maldonatus . all this is observed to prove the church could not be in the pope . . that the waldenses were opposers of the pope , whose confession is set downe by r gulielmus reginaldus turco-papista : as s vsserus saith , and cast to by t the jesuite gretser to the end of peter pilichdorffius his treaties contra waldenses , and u by reinerus contra waldenses , their confession containing a condemning of the popes supremacy , unwritten traditions , worshipping of images , invocation of saints , &c. and all the articles of popery . we know how well x calvin thinketh of their confession y the slanderous gr●tser saith , that wicliffe renewed their errors and taught this article . d●u● debet obedire diabolo . god should obey satan . but that faithfull witnesse of christ , hath no such thing in his writtings . many other poynts are objected to the waldenses , but z thuanus saith , reliqua quae à waldensi●us affing untur , per invidiam assinguntur . other lies and false doctrines are laide upon them , but the a magdeburgenses set downe faithfully the articles that they held , which wee owne as the truth of god. what b sanderus c coccius d and parsonius objected to them that they taught that carnall co●cupiscence was no sin . . that all oathes in any case are unlawfull . . that the magistrate may not use the sword . . that the apostles creed is to be contemned these and other calumnies are well refused by usser e and proved by the testimony , that papists gave of the holy life of the waldenses , to bee but lies and meere cal●mnies . these who of old ( saith serarius ) f were called berengariani from berengarius , are this day called calvinists , and these who are this day ( sayth g ioan , wendelstonus ) called protestants , are novi , s●n g●rmanici waldenses . the new waldenses of germany . nec vero ( saith h usser , citing the foresaid authors ) justam a●l●●c causam videre p●ssimus , quam●brem horum majnum pudere nos debcat ; we neede not thinke shame of our forbearers the waldenses . whether did berengarius feare leo the . his unjust sentence of excommunication : but contrary to victor the . he did stoutly plead that the e●ements were a figure or signe of the body and blood of christ , ar. . and before nicol●us the . in a synod at rome before . bishops , for the space of seven dayes hee pleaded the same cause . so saith albericus i diacon . cassinens . and k carolus sig●nius . yea , and hee lest behind him in his age multitudes of his followers , so as rome was not able to suppresse the visible church ever since her cedar branches did spring up to the cloudes . and we know that the faith of the councell of trent , as pressed by oath prescribed by pius . and by the command of gregorius . was not in the world the . age , ambrosius , catharinus , martinus , isengrenius , contarenus , the sorbonists of paris , and the doctors of venice , in many substantiall poynts contradicted the church of rome : yea l thuanus m and the bishop of spalato teach that after the councell of trent the reformation spread through the christian world. in the . and . ages , the doctrine of the waldenses , of wicliffe and berengarius did grow , but few did write , ( saith n voetius , ) in these times because of heavy persecution , multitudes in germany austria , moravia , silesia leiden , collen , osenbruge , and many other parts opposed popery . now we say there were multitudes professing the truth , both of doctors , fathers , and witnesses opposing the roman church ! and what calling the church of rome gave to our reformers must be measured by the best of the church consenting to their c●l●i●g : for wee are not to thinke that all professed popery , but many of the gu des opposed , many were burdened in 〈◊〉 and yet out of weakenesse durst not professe , because of the 〈◊〉 ●●ea●nesse . . they durst not write and preach ag 〈…〉 n of the time . . many were simple , many 〈◊〉 . . 〈…〉 luther and zuinolius had their whole calling from the 〈…〉 ye● think we not that calling no calling , but that it hath that which ●ssentially constituteth a ministe . . c●j phas entered most c●r●n●●ly to the priesthood , by the favour of men , and to bee high-priest for one yeare contrary to the law , which ordained the high-priest to remaine for his lifetime . but as o iosephus said p toletus q cajetan r maldonat s iansonius : yea and our owne writers t calvin u marlorat x musculus y rollock z bullinger observe , all was done by the will and lust of men ; yet cajaphas was the high-priest and prophecied , which is a specifick act of a called prophet . john , ex. . . it is said , he prophecied as high-priest . . the scribes and t●aisees set in moses chaire , and are to be heard , mat. . in so far as they teach gods truth , and yet their entry to their calling was corrupt , if it be true that diverse say , that christ , john ▪ calleth the scribes and pharises . theeves and robbers , because they came not in by the doore , but climbed up another way , but however there was corruption in the way of their comming to the chaire , for they leavened all other the ordinances of god , and the high priest was entered a false way , the rest of the rulers could not come , but in a corrupt way . but though augustine a and b clemens alexa● . expound the place , john . of such as want a lawfull calling ; but then the place cannot agree with scribes and pharisees , which seemeth to fight with the course of the text. but our interpeters c brentius d b●z● e rollocus , expound the place of these who preach not christ soundly , and to be the doore and the foundation , but humane traditions , and yet had a calling ; and the text saith so much , where v. . salvation is promised to every one who entereth in by christ the doore , now salvation is not promised to a man , because hee hath a lawfull calling to the ministery ; hee may have that and yet b●e a child of perdition . . wee are no where forbidden in gods word to heare teachers sent and called , but onely wolves in sheepe skinnes , voyd of all calling , and intruders : for pastors may be antichristian in the manner of the entry , as cajaphas . . in the matter of their doctrine teaching some of mens traditions , in place of gods word as scribes and pharisees . . yea , and brooke an antichristian calling , as prelates doe and have done in brittain● , and yet their ministery be valid . for that the calling of a minister be valid , and his ministeriall acts not null , it is sufficient that the governing church give him a calling , either by themselves , their expresse call , their silence , or tacite consen● , or their approbation communicating with him in his ministery , or by these to whom the church resigned her power , or by these who stand in place of the church ; though prelates invade the place of the church : yet because first they themselves be pastors and have power to teach and baptize as pastors called of christ. mat. . . . because they stand for the church the church approving , or some way by silence consenting ( as in the case of cajaphas entry to the priest-hood ) thereunto . these who are baptized of them , are not rebaptized , and these who are ordained pastors by them are not reordained , but have a calling to the ministery and doe validly confer a calling upon others . yea , many of great learning thinke that at the beginning of reformation thousands being under popery baptized by midwives and private persons , were never rebaptized , not that they thinke such baptisme valid , but where the sacrament is wanting , ex invincibili ignorantia facti , out of an invincible ignorance of a fact , such that way baptized doe indeed want the lords seale ; but wee cannot for that say that they are no better then infidells and unbaptized turkes and iewes , because . . their being borne in the visible church giveth a federall holinesse , as all of jewish parents had a federall right to circumcision , and were , eatenus , in so far , separated from the wombe . . because their profession of that covenant whereof baptisme is a seale , separateth them sufficiently from infidells , though they want the seale externall . but our divines esteeme , and that justly , baptisme administrated by women , or such as have no calling , to be no baptisme at all ; for which let the reader see a calvin b beza c the learned rivetus . we stand not for what d bellarmine e maldonatus f gretserus and other papists say on the contrary : and also g cajetan and h toletus . . robinson i and our brethren acknowledge that the church of rome hath true baptisme , for they retaine the essentiall causes of baptisme , even as the vessells of the lords house profaned in babylon may be carried back to the temple , but if these vessells were broken and mingled with brasse and iron , and cast in another mould they could not obtaine their former place in the temple . baptisme is a vessell profaned in babell , but not broken ; but the ministry and priest hood of rome is like the new melted and mingled vessell , and essentially degenerated from the office of pastorship . but i answer , if baptisme be valid in rome so are the ministers baptizers , for if the ministers and priests be essentially no ministers , the baptisme administrated by the romish priests is no ministery , and all one as administrated by midwives and private persons , who therefore cannot administrate the sacraments validly in the essentiall causes , because they are essentially no ministers . if therefore robinson will have the romish priest-hood essentially no ministery , by that same reason he must say , baptisme administrated by romish priests i● no baptisme , the contrary whereof he confesseth : otherwise hee must say baptisme administrated , à non habente potestatem , even by women and private men , is valid , and cannot be but esteemed lawfull in the substance of the act . . these have a ministery essentially entyre who have power under christ to preach the gospell and administrate the sacraments , matthew . . the romish priests have this , and are called to this by the church . but saith robinson . how can england forsake the church of rome , and forsake the ministery , which is in the church , as in the subject , especially , seeing you teach that a true ministery maketh essentially a true church ? i answer , england may well separate from rome everting the fundamentall parts of faith , and not separate from romes baptisme , or ministery , in so farre , as they be essentially the ordinances of christ : and i retort this argument ; how can separatists separate from both us and rome , and yet retaine the baptisme in both our church and rome . . a ministery true in the essence may make a church true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in so far ; but because of many other substantiall corruptions in rome , it is a church which we ought to forsake . but sayth robinson , a apostates in the . tribes leaving the church which was radically at jerusalem , upon their repentance were readmitted to enter into the temple , into which no uncircumcised person might enter , but any of the priests following idolls , were never readmitted to be priests , though they should repent ; therefore the ministery and baptisme are not alike . i answer , that the true church was onely at jerusalem radically , as , you say , would import that the . tribes revolting from davids house ceased to be a church , which is false : israel though all the land were in covenant with god , had circumcision and the passover , and so were a true visible church , even when they did meete in their synagogues . the altar , sacrifices , temple , are not the essentialls of a visible church , they were a church , and did pray toward the temple even in babylon , and were to professe the true god before the heathen , ierem. . . . there be typicall reasons to hinder men why they cannot be capable of the priest-hood , that did not exclude them from church state ; but this hindereth not but if the seales administated by a minister be true seales , then is the minister thereof catenus , in so far , a true minister . he addeth b a minister may leave off to be a minister , and be justly degraded and excommunicated , but none ever attempted to unbaptize one who was baptized , nor can he be unbaptized who is baptized . answ. that proveth a difference betwixt the ministery and baptisme , which is not the question ; but it proveth not this to be false , if romes baptisme be lawfull in its essence , so is romes ministery . chap. . sect . . of the addition of members to the church . the author sayth , a church cannot consist of a fewer number then seven , since there must be foure of them , a pastor , doctor , elder , and a deacon . ans. and wee contend not for number , but foure may be a church of your making , and in church-covenant : for it is a wonder , that you require officers who by your doctrine , cannot be parts of the church , seeing you make them accidents of the church , and teach that the church , in its being and operation , is before any officers be ordained in it : the accidents of a subject , and a subject make not multiplication , peter & his learning and whitenesse make not two peters . and therefore seeing three believers may be united in your church-covenant , they must be a church : and seeing these foure officers , a pastor , an elder , a doctor , and a deacon must be chosen by the church , yea and ordained also ( by your doctrine ) neede they must have their ordination and lawfull calling from three , and so these three must be their church electing them ; and a numerous congregation , we dislike with you . author , these who are to be added , are to make knowen to the elders their desire to be added , that they may be tryed , if he be found graceles or scand●lous , he is not to be presented to the church ; if no exception be against him , he confesseth his faith publickly , and sheweth the grace of god to his soule in drawing him out of the state of sin . answ. . wee reade not that three thousand added to the church at one sermon , acts . nor any other that we reade of , were in this manner and order added , and therefore this way we suspect . . you require in one to be added that he be not graceles and scandalous , to be free from scandals is visible and is required in a visible church member , but grace is invisible and can be a note of a member of the invisible church , but no wayes a note of a member of the visible church . the apostles required it not in simon magus . the author in the same place proceedeth to prove that none can be members of the visible church , but such as be regenerated so far as the church can discerne . hence our , . quest. whether the members of the visible church be only visible saints , sons and daughters of the lord god almighty , temples of the holy spirit , &c. . distinct. any who blamelesly professeth christ is ecclesiastically , in foro ecclesiae , a true and valid member of the church visible , having ecclesiasticall power valid for that effect : but , except he be a sincere believer , he is not morally and in fo●o dei , a living member of the invisible church . . dist. that which is unseene is the forme and essence of an invisible church , and that which is visible must be the essentiall forme of a visible church . . dist. the invisible church catholick is the principall , prime and native subject of all the priviledges of christians , the covenan● premises , titles of spouse , bride , redeemed temple of the holy spirit , &c. and the church visible as she is such , is no wayes such a subject , the non-consideration whereof we take to be the ground of many errors , in our reverend brethren in this matter , which also deceived papists , as our divines demonstrate . . dist. a seene profession is the ground of members admission to the visible church . hence there is a satisfaction of the conscience of the church in admitting of members , either in the judgement of charity , or in the judgement of verity . . dist. there is a satisfaction in the judgement of charity positive , when we see signes which positively assure us that such an one is regenerate : and there is a satisfaction negative when we know nothing on the contrary which hath a latitude : for i have a negative satisfaction of the regeneration of some , whose persons or behaviour i know neither by sight nor report . this is not sufficient for the accepting of a church-membership , therefore somewhat more is required . . dist. there be three rankes of men here considerable . . some professedly and notoriously flagitious and wicked ; little charity may exclude these . . some professedly sanctifyed and holy , little charity may accept and welcome such to the visible church . . some betwixt these two , of whom we have neither a certainty full and satisfactory to the conscience , that they are regenerate ; nor have we any plerophory or persuasion , that they are in the state of nature . . it is no lesse sin to sadden the heart of a weake one , and to break the bruised reed , then out of overplus of strong charity , to give the hand to an hypocrite , as a true church-member . . materially it is all one not to admit members of such a church to your church , as to separate from such a church , and to excommunicate such members : for it is a negative and authoritative leaving of such to satan , if it be not a positive excommunication . . there is a visibility of the church by writing . . by synods which meete for consultation , as our brethren teach . . by martyrdome . . the seene profession of many churches , and these being without the bounds of a congregation , it is not iustice to restrict all visibility to one single congregation . . visible security , backslyding , over swaying predominants tolerated may consist with the church , membership of a visible church : . conclus . these two be farre different , ( hic vel in hoc satu est ecclesia vera ) there or in this company there is a true church . and this ( haec est ecclesia vera ) this determinat company of such persons by name is a true church ) the former is true , where ever god setteth up his candle , there be their church-members of christs body either actually or potentially ; for asmuch as if their be no converts there at all , yet in respect of gods decree which hee beginneth to execute while as hee erecteth a ministery , certainly there must be some converted there at last . but as concerning the latter proposition , none can say certainly , such visible persons by name , iohn , paul , anna , mary , &c. are the true spouse and redeemed of christ , because , as divines answer to papists , we believe the church of christ rather then see it . yea , the spouse of christ , as the true spouse , is all glorious within , psal. . . and that which essentially constituteth a spouse of christ , is not visible , but the hidden man in the heart , pet. . . neither is there any union of believers as believers visible . . faith and true grace are not the essence of a visible church , as it is visible , because nothing simply invisible can essentially constitute that which is visible . . con. the invisible and not the visible church is the principall , prime , and onely proper subject , with whom the covenant of grace is made , to whom all the promises doe belong , and to whom all titles , stiles , properties and priviledges of speciall note , in the mediator doe belong . if our reverend brethren would be pleased to see this , they should forsake their doctrine of a visible constituted church , of separation , of popular government , of independency , of parochi●ll churches , which they conceive to be the only visible churches under the new testament . . the church , to whom the covenant , and the promises of the covenant are made , is an church , and a seed which shall endure as the dayes of heaven . psal. . . and such as can no more fall away from being gods people in an eternall covenant with him , then their god can alter what he has spoken , or lic , psal. , , . they can no more cease from being in gods favour , or be cast off of god , then the ordinances of heaven can depart from before god , then heaven can be measured above , or the foundations of the earth searched out beneath . jerem. . . , . nor the mountaines and hills can be removed out of their places . esa. . . or the world can be destroyed , with the waters of noah againe : or then god can retract his o●th and promise . heb. . , , . but the visible church of 〈◊〉 or that congregation or parish ( as our brethren say ) of rome , corinth , colosse , thessalonica , philippi , and the seven churches of asia , shall not endure as the dayes of heaven , yea they are all this day under horrible defection of antichistian idolatry and turcisme and judaisme : if it be said , the faithfull and believing of the visible churches at rome , corinth , colosse , &c. could no more fall away , then the house of israel and seed of david could cease to be gods people . i answer , this is to flee to the invisible church ; but the professors of these visible churches as professors and in church-state might fall away from the church profession . if they say , they cannot fall from the sincerity of a true profession ; now yet they are aside , and flee from the visible professors , and churches visibility agreeing to the church as visible ; to the churches sincerity and invisible grace of constancy proper to the invisible church , and by this meaning , none are the true visible church , nor members thereof , but only such as have profession , and withall sincerity of profession ; so hypocrites , though never so fairely inchurched , have no power of the keyes , of censures of excommunication , of admitting of church members , of baptizing , &c. all which is very anabaptisme , that there is no visible church on earth , but a company of truely , and ( in foro dei ) regenerated and converted persons and the onely redeemed of god ; and. . our divines in vaine contend with papists anent the visible churches failing on earth , for most certaine it is ( except we hold with arminians , socinians and papists the apostacy of believers ) neither the catholick church , nor a particular congregation of sincere believers can fall into heresies and lose true and saving faith. but we hold that there is not a visible church consisting of only visible professors never so orthodox , but it may fall into fundamentall heresies , and we give instance , in the sometime orthodox and visible church of rome which hath fallen from the sound faith , and is become b●bel and a whore and mother of fornications . . a church consisting of seven professors ( which our brethren in this place say , is a visible church ) may have foure or five , yea six hypocrites in it , and yet the essence of a visible church , the nature of a church-state , church-covenant , the power and use of the keyes is 〈◊〉 in such a church of seven : for it is certaine , professon , 〈◊〉 uniting themselves together in one church-state , are not led by an infallible and apostolick spirit , that they cannot erre inconstituting a visible church : but if they be fallible and obnoxious to error , then in erecting a church of seven , five , six , and by the same reason all the seven may be ( in foro dei ) in gods court , yea and ( in an ordinary providence now with relation to the state of man fallen into sin ) often are unbelievers and unconverted persons , and yet a visible church performing all church-acts of a visible profession . now if our brethrens grounds hold good , seven unbelievers are a company in covenant with god , and can no more fall from the covenant and grace thereof , then god can lie or alter that which is gone out of his mouth . . the church with whom the covenant is made , and to whom the promises of the covenant are made , is the spouse of christ , his mysticall body , the sons and daughters of the lord god almighty , a royall priest-hood , a chosen generation , kings and priests to god : but this is the invisible church of elect believers , not the visible church of visible professors . therefore the invisible , and not the visible church , is the first subject of all the priviledges of christians , and all the promises of the covenant . the proposition is not doubted . i prove the assumption ; the visible church as it is such , is a company of professors of the truth , and connot be , as it is such , the spouse of christ and his body . . because then professors , as professors , should be christs redeemed body , which is openly false and against the word of god : for rom. . . for they are not all israel , which are of israel . . our brethrens argument is strong to prove , that the church of elders are not the true church spoken of in the word ; for , say they , the true church is a flock that christ hath redeemed with his blood , acts . . the temple of the living god , cor. . but the church of elders is not a flock of redeemed ones , and temples of the holy spirit , but in so far as they believe , and are elected to glory , and not as a flock of elders , are they redeemed : so they say , true elders , as elders , are not a part of the true church , nor the church to whom christ gave the keyes , mat. . but the church making peters confession . so say wee , the church of visible professors , as they are such , are not the redeemed of christ , and temples of the holy spirit , but in so far as they are believers and the elect of god. for if our brethren say , the church , as it is a company of visible professors , is also essentially the church of redeemed ones , then only the church of visible professors , and all the church of visible professors are redeemed of god , but this is absurd and false . quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . our brethren acknowledge there may be an hundred believers and temples of the holy spirit , who are a flock of redeemed ones , and yet not be a company of visible professors . . because they are not united ( say they ) covenant-wayes into a church-body . . ( say they ) because of weakenesse and for feare of persecution , men may hide their profession as many doe in the church of rome , and yet be the redeemed of god , and be the seven thousand who have not bowed their knees to baal ; and our brethren cannot say , that all the visible church are the flock redeemed of god , for then should there be no hypocrites in the visible church . . in this our brethren maintaine one of the ●●ossest poynts of the arminian , popish and socinian doctrine , even that all visible professors are chosen to glory , redeemed of god , and the children of the promise , and that in gods purpose , the cove●ant of grace and the promises of the covenant are made to all and every one in the visible church , and that god hath an intention that christ shall die for all and every one of the visible church , and that he inteneth to save all and every one of the visible church . this i prove , for if th● covenant and promises of the covenant , if the stiles of christs body , his love , his spouse , his sister and d●ve , if the revelation of christ made not by flesh and blood , but by christs father the ground of that blessed confession of peter mat. . . for which the keys were given to the visible church , if i say all these be proper to the visible church as visible , and due to her as to the first principall and prime subject , and not to the chosen redeemed and invisible church as such , then the promises of the covenant , and all these styles belong to the visible church , and god promiseth and intendeth a new heart and a new spirit to all visible professors as such , and so he intendeth redemption in christ and salvation , and christs righteousnesse and forgivenesse of sins to all the visible church . but our brethren do not ( i hope ) thinke that gods intentions , are castles in the aire , and new ilands beyond the moone , as if his intentions could be frustrated , and he could misse the white of the scope he shooteth at ; for certainly these to whom the covenant , and promises thereof belong as to the prime and first subject , these are his covenanted people ; now the orthodox and reformed church holdeth , that the covenant and promises are preached to the whole visible church , but for the elects sake , and that howsoever externally , the covenant of grace and promises be promulgated to every one , and all within the lists of the visible church ; yet they belong in gods intention and gratious purpose only to the elect of god , and his reseemed ones , to that invisible body , spouse , sister , whereof christ alone is lord , head , husband , and brother , and the first begotten amongst many brethren . hence let me reason thus . the church whose gathering together , and whose unity of faith , knowledge of the son of god , and growth of the measure of the stature of the fulnes of christ , the lord intendeth by giving to them for that end , some to be apostles , some prophets , some pastors and teachers , eph. . , , . must be the church to which all the promises of the covenant and priviledges do belong . but the lord intendeth the gathering together , the unity of faith , the knowledge of the son of god and growth of the measure of the stature of christ only of the invisible elected and redeemed church , not of the visible professing or consesing church , nor doth the lord send pastors and teachers up-on a purpose and intention of gathering the visible church , and visible israel , except you flie to the tents of arminians . i conceive these arguments cannot be answered . if any say , that christ in giving prophets , pastors and teachers to his church intendeth to save the true visible church of the chosen and redeemed , in so far as they are chosen and redeemed , now they who answer thus , come to our hand and forsake the doctrine of their visible church , and say with us , that the ministery and the keys are given only upon a purpose on gods part to save the invisible church , and that all these promises of the covenant , the styles of christs spouse , sister , faire one , are not proper to the visible church , nor any ground or argument to prove that the keys , the power of excommunication , ordaining of officers are given to the visible church , as to the prime and principall subject . . the invisible church ; and not the visible church as it is such , hath right to the sacraments , because these who have right to the covenant , have right to the seales of the covenant ; and this is peters argument to prove the baptizing of infants to be lawfull , acts . , . but only the invisible church hath right to the covenant . for god saith only of , and to the invisible church . and not of the visible church in his gratious purpose , jerem. . . and i will be their god , and they shall be my people , jer. . . i will put my law in their inward parts , . they shall all know me ( all within the covenant ) i will forgive th●ir iniquity . now the visible church as the visible church is not within the covenant , therefore the visible church as the visible church , and being no more but the visible church , hath not right to the seales of the covenant , but in so far as they are within the covenant , and in so far as god is their god , and they his pardoned and sanctified people , as it is , ierem. . . . it is knowen that our brethren here joyne with papists , for papists ignorant of the doctrine of the visible church , labour to prove that the visible church on earth , the ministeriall , teaching and governing church , cannot erre , but that she conver●ed in a visible synod , and met in christs name , hath a promise of an infallible assistance . and by what argumunts do they prove it ? you know here bellarmine , pererius , tolet , stapleton , bail●●s , suarez . vasquez , harding , gretsirus , costerus , turrecremata , salmoron , locinus , cajetan , and an host of them say , because the church is builded on a rock , and against it the gates of hell shall not prevaile : because christ saith , i have prayd to the father that thy faith faile thee not : because christ saith , i will send you the holy spirit , and he shall leade you into all truth . now our divines say , that the invisible church of elect believers cannot fall off the rock , and cannot fall from saving faith , and cannot erre by falling into fundamentall heresies , but it followeth not ; ergo , the visible ministeriall and teaching church , either out of a synod , or convened in a synod , have an infallible and apostolick spirit to lead them so , as in their determinations they cannot erre . just so our brethren take all the places for the priviledges , covenant , promises , stiles of sister , love , dove , spouse , mysticall body of christ , &c. which are proper only to the invisible , redeemed , chosen , sanctified church of god : and they give all these to their only visible ministeriall and right constituted church in the new testament ; and say that this visible church gathered in a church-state , because of the foresaid priviledges and stiles , hath the supreame and independent power and authority of the keys , above all teachers and pastors whatsoever , and that the right visible church consisteth only of a royall generation , temples of the holy ghost , a people in covenant with god , taught of god , partakers of the divine nature , &c. and that all visible churches that meet not in a materiall house , in a visible and conspicious society , as on visible mount zion , and not consisting of such a covenanted , sanctified , and separated people , are a false church , false in matter , not an ordinance of christ , but an idoll , an antichristian device , a synagogue of satan voyd of the power of the keys . . a church in covenant with god , and the spouse of christ , and his mysticall body , and a church which he redeemed with the blood of god , acts . . eph. . . . col. . . cor. . . is a church whereof all the members without exception are taught of god. jerem. . . they shall all know me ( saith the lord ) from the least , unto the greatest . esa. . . all thy children shall be taught of the lord. and therefore they all haveing heard and learned of the father , come to christ , iohn . . and therefore have all the anointing within them which teacheth them all things , iohn . . and so they have all eares to heare . yea among such a company , esai . . . . there is no lyon , no ravenous beast , but the redeemed and ransomed of the lord. but so it is that no visible congregation on earth , that are visible professors of any competent number , is such a church whereof all the members are taught of god , all ransomed and redeemed , and therefore no visible church , as such is a people or church in covenant with god. see a rodgers catechisme . . conclus . a visible profession of the truth and doctrine of godlinesse , is that which essentially constituteth a visible church , and every member of the visible church ; onely our brethren and we differ much about the nature of this profession which is required in members added to the church . our brethren will have none members of the visible church , but such as are satisfactory to the consciences of all the visible church , and give evidences so cleare , as the judgement of discerning men can atraine unto , that they are truly regenerated . we againe do teach , that the scandalously wicked are to be cast out of the church by excommunication , and these of approved piety are undoubtedly members of the visible church , so these of the middle sort are to be acknowledged members of the church , though the church have not a positive certainty of the judgement of charity , that they are regenerated , so they be knowen . to be baptized . . that they be free of grosse scandals . . and professe that they be willing hearers of the doctrine of the gospell . such a profession , as giveth evidences to the positive certainty of the judgement of charity , of sound conversion , is not required to make and constitute a true visible church . . argu. israel entered in covenant with god , deut. . was a true visible church , as our brethren teach , because that they conceive to be a church-covenant , deut. , but churches by that oath were not such , as to the satisfaction of moses , and the whole people their consciences gave positive certainty of sound conversion . because v. . the lord ( saith the text ) hath not given you an heart to perceive , nor eyes to see , nor eares to heare to this day , deut. . . for i know thy rebellion and thy stifneck , behell , while i am yet alive with you this day , yee have been rebellions against the lord. ver . . deut. . v. . v. , , . josh. . . . argu. christ would not seven times have said . he that hath eares to heare , let him heare what the spirit saith to the churches , if he had not supposed that in these seven churches , there were blind , obdurate , and carnall hearers , as there were when , mat. . upon occasion of the like hearers , he uttereth these same words in substance . now christ would have blamed their ill discerning in admitting such to be the materialls of a visible church , as hee reproveth their other faults in government . neither could christ reprove these churches , for not exercising the church-censures against liers , false apostles , fleshly nicolaitans , followers of balaams wicked doctrine , jezebed and other ill doers and seducers , if these had not been church-members , as our brethren teach , how can we conceive , that christ would call these churches , who were false in the matter , or give his presence and communion by walking among the golden candlestickes , and holding the starres , the ministery , in his right hand ? and if every one of these churches were approved to the consciences one of another , that they positively knew they were all of them , a royall priest-hood , an holy generation , all taught of god , all sonnes and daughters of the lord god almighty , how are there such grosse scandals put upon them by jesus christ ? . argu. paul clearely teacheth , cor. . that the church of corinth convened had the power of the lord iesus amongst them , and was a betrothed bryde espoused in a church covenant , even all of the visible church as one chaste virgin to god , as our brethren prove from the , cor. . , , . who had received the spirit and the gospell , their minds being knit thereunto , in the simplicity of iesus christ ; now if the matter of this betrothed church was such , as our brethren say , then christs power , and presence and spirit , were in these as the temples of the holy ghost , and these were betrothed to christ iesus , and had received the spirit and were saints by calling , were justified , washen , sanctified , who were incestuous , fornicators , drunkards , railers , carnall , schismaticks , going to the law one with another before infidells , partakers of the table of christ and of divells , deniers of the resurrection , to whom the word was the savour of death , and the gospell as it is to these , whom the god of this world , satan , hath blinded . what can be more repugnant to the truth and to the gospell of christ ? it cannot be answered , that these in corinth who were hypocrites and walked so contrary to the gospell were not members of the church of corinth . for only the truly converted were such . i answer . . then paul writeth not to the visible church and to all whom he doth rebuke , the contrary whereof is cleare . cor. . . cor. . . cor. . . . cor. . . . . cor. . , . cor. . . cor. . . cor. . and in many other places . . then the visible church was not betrothed to christ as a chaste virgin : contrary to this our brethren alleadged , cor. . , . . not only is conversion professedly true in the judgment of charity , but also in the judgement of verity , essentiall to a visible church as you teach ; and so none can be a member of the visible church , but he who is a member of the invisible church , which is anabaptisme . . three thousand in one day were added to the visible church , who could not ( as i have proved ) all be approved to the conscience one of another , as true converts , acts . since amongst them were ananias and saphira , and the time was short . . if we are to beare one anothers burdens , and so fulfill the law of christ , and if grace may be beside many and great sinnes , as we see in asa , in salomon who remained the children of god , under many out breakings , if the children of god may be the children of god , and yet some of them habitually proud , passionate , some of them worldly minded , some talkative and imprudently rash in zeale , some lustfull , some slothfull , some ambiticus , yea and if simon magus his profession , though false , was esteemed sufficient , for to give him baptisme , the seale of the covenant , acts . . then it is not required that all the members of the visible church be such as positively wee know ( so farre as humane knowledge can reach ) that they are converted , yea if this were true , then speciall commandements would be given , that as we are to examine and try our selves , cor. . . cor. . . and to try officers before they be admitted , tim. . . tim. . and to try the spirits of prophets and their doctrine , iohn . . and , thess. . . acts . . so would god in his word give a charge , that we try , examine and judge carefully one another , and that every man labour to be satisfied in conscience anent the regeneration one of another . but such commandements we reade not of . . if many be brought and called into the visible church , of purpose both on gods revealed intention in his word to convert them , and on the churches part that they may be converted ; then doth not the church confist of these who are professedly converted , but the former ●● true ; ergo , so is the latter . the proposition is sure , these whom god purposeth to convert by making them church-members , they are not church-members because they are already converted . i prove the assumption , because . . the contrary doctrine , to wit , that none are under a pastors care till they be first converted , maketh to the eversion of the publick ministery , and gratifieth arminians and socinians , as before i observed , because faith commeth not by hearing of sent pastors , as gods ordinance is , rom. . . but by the contrary , we aske a warrant from the testament of christ , that now since the apostles are not in the earth , private men not sent to preach , should be ordinary fishers of men , and gatherers of christs church and kingdome . . that christ hath provided no pastors nor teachers to watch over the elect , yet remaining in the kingdome of darknesse , and that christ ascending on high , as a victorious king hath not given pastors and teachers by office to bring in his redeemed flock , which he hath bought with his blood , acts . . . it is against the nature of the visible kingdome of christ which is a d●aw-net and an offici●● , a workehouse of externall calling into christ , even such as are serving their honour , buying a farme ; and their gaine , buying five yoke of oxen ; and their lusts , having married a wife . luk. . , . . it is against the nature of the ministery , and wisdomes maides , sent out to compell them to come in . luke . . matthew . , , . prov. . , , , . who are yet without . . if none can be members while they be first converted . . the church visible is made a church visible without the ministery of the church . . these who are baptized are not by baptisme entered in the visible church contrary to gods word , cor. . . and the sound judgement of all divines . . all these who are baptized . . who write as doctors for the defence of the orthodox faith. . who seale the truth with their sufferings and blood . . who keepe communion with visible churches , in hearing , partaking of the word and seales , as occasion serveth , if they be not professedly and notoriously to the consciences of a particular parish converted to christ , are no members of the visible church . . all our brethrens arguments to prove this doctrine doe onely prove the truly regenerate to be members of the invisible church , and not of the visible church . and if the arguments bee naught , the conclusion must bee naught and false . . it is against the doctrine of fathers , as a augustine b cyprian c gregorius d chysostome e nazianzen f eusebius . who al accord that the visible church is a company of professors , consisting of good and bad , like the arke of noah as g hierome maketh comparison . i might cite ireneus , tertullian , origen , cyrillus , basilius , hilarius , presper , ambrosius , primasius , sedulius , just. martyr , clemens alexandrinus , euthymius , theophylact , epiphanius , theodoret , and luther , melanchton , chemnitius , meisnerus , hunius , hemingius , gerardus , crocius , calvin , beza , voetius , sadeel , plesseus , whittakerus , ioannes whyte , fransc. whyte , reynoldus , iuellus , rich. feildus , perkinsius , pau. baynes , trelcatius , tilenus , piscator , ursinus , paraeus , sibrandus , professores leydenses , antonius wallaeus , and. rivetus , pet. molineus , dam. tossanus , mercorus , fest. hommius , bullingerus , mnsculus , rollocus , davenantius , mortonus . quest. . whether or no our brethren prove by valid aguments , the constitution of the church visible to be only of visible saints , of sanctified washen and justified persons . let us begin with our present authour , and with what the ( a ) apology saith . we admit all , even infidells to the hearing of the word , cor. . ▪ . yet we receive none as members ●●to our church , but such as ( according to the judgement of charitable christians , ) may be conceived to be received of god , unto fellowship with christ the head of the church . our reasons be . . from the neere relation betwixt christ jesus and the church , as also betwixt the church and other persons of the trinity . the lord jesus is the head of the church ; even of the visible church , and the visible church is the body of christ jesus cor. . and . answ. to admit as ordinary hearers of the word and church prayers , is a degree of admission to church-communion , and they who are baptized , and ordinarily heare , and professe a willing mind to communicate with the church in the holy things of god , they being not scandalously wicked are to be admitted , yea and are members of the church visible . ● . set the first reason in forme it is thus ; these only are to be received as church members who are conceived to be members of that body whereof christ is head . but the promisccous multitude of professors are not conceived to be such , but only the sanctified in christ iesus are such . or thus , if christ be the head of the visible church , then only such are to be admitted members of the visible church , as are conceived to be members of christ the head , and not the promiscuous multitude of good and bad . but the former is true ; ergo , so is the latter . . if christ be the head of the visible church as visible , it would seeme onely these who are conceived members of christ , should bee admitted members of the visible body . true and in this meaning let the major passe ; but if christ be the head of the visible church not as it is visible , but as it is a body of believers and invisible , then we see no reason to yeeld the connexion : because christ is the head of true believers , therefore none should be admitted members of the church , but such as we conceive are believers , because they are to be admitted to the visible church , who are willing to joyne themselves are baptized and doe professe christ to be their head , though we cannot conceive whether they be sound believers or not ; for a profession is sufficient to make them members of the visible body , though indeed to be sou●d believers , maketh them members of christs body invisible . . that christ is the head of the visible church , as visible , i● not in all the word of god , he is the head of the church catholick and invisible , by influence of the life and spirit of christ , eph. , , . eph. . . coloss. . . and in a large sense may be called the head of the church-visible , as visible , in regard of the influence of common graces for the ministery ; government , and use of the keys : but because of such a degree of christs head-ship , it followeth only that these are to be admitted members under christ the head , whom we conceive to be ●t members of the church , as it is a ministeriall and a governing society , and for this there is not required an union with christ , as head , according to the influence of the life of christ , but only an union with christ , as head , according to the influence of common gifts , for the governing a ministeriall church ; in which respect , christ may be called the head of judas the traitor , and of some other hypocriticall professors ; and also though the promiscuous multitude , that is a multitude of prophane atheists and scandalous mockers , be not members of christ , nor are to be acknowledged as his members , but to be excommunicated , yet the promiscuous multitude of professors , whereof there be reprobate and elect , good and bad , are to be received and acknowledged as members of christs visible body , wherof he is head in the latter sense . . the argument proceedeth upon the false ground before observed and discovered , that christ is head of the church and the spouse , redeemer and saviour of the visible church , as it is visible , which is the arminian doctrine of universall grace . . if these who are conceived to be members of christ the head and sound believers are to be admitted , why doe you professe that brethren of approved piety , and so conceived to be believers by you , and consequently members of christ the head , cannot be members of your church , except they sweare to your church government , which you cannot make good from gods word . now to refuse communion to these who are knowen to be members of christs body , and to separate from them is all one , and therefore in this you separate your selves from christs body . the author addeth . the visible church is said to be the habitation of god by the spirit , eph. . . to be the temple of the holy ghost , and the spirit of god to dwell in them , cor. . , . to he espoused to christ as a chaste virgin. cor. . and sonnes and daughters of the lord god almighty . cor. . . and are exhorted to be followers of him as deare children , eph. . . now how can the visible church be the members of the body and the spouse of christ , & c. except they be in charitable discerning ( as indeed the holy ghost discribeth them to be ) saints by calling . cor. . . and faithfull brethren , gal. . . and that not only in externall profession ( for these are too high stiles for hypocrites ) but in some measure of sincerity and truth . answ. the argument must be thus . these only we are to admit members of the visible church , who in the judgement of charity are conceived to be such as were the members of the visible church of corinth and ephesus . but only such as are the habitation of god by his spirit , and the sons and daughters of the living god , not only in profession , but in some measure of truth and sincerity , were the members of the visible church of corinth and ephesus : ergo , such onely are we to admit to be members of the visible church . now this argument concludeth not what is in question ; ergo , only these are to be admitted members of the visible church , whom we conceive to be the spouse of christ , and truely regenerated . now if our conception be erroneous ( as it cannot be infallible ) then we may admit these who are not regenerated , to the church-membership , if we conceive them to be regenerated ; and so our brethren say falsely , that the admitted must be saints and faithfull , not only in profession , but in some measure of sincerity und truth , for these are members of the invisible church who are truly and in a measure of sincerity regenerated , if our conception be not erroneous : yet it is by accident , that they are admitted de facto , who are not saints in truth , for the church may be deceived , and receive in for members of the head christ , hypocrites and such as are not the habitation of god by his spirit , but of satan ; as is cleare in ananias and saphira admitted by the apostles to church-fellowship , acts . . . and in simon magus , acts . admitted to the church and baptized by the apostolick church , who was yet in the gall of bitterness . but. . the assumption is false , for the apostle admitted to be members of the church visible of corinth and ephesus , not only saints by true profession , but also carnall men , deniers of the resurrection , partakers of the tables of divells , and in ephesus false apostles and liers , revel . . . but paul speaketh of corinth according to the best part : for the epistle and doctrine of the covenant is written and preached for the elects sake and for believers ; neither is the covenant of grace made with the reprobate and unbelievers , nor doe the promises of the covenant , indeed , and in gods intention belong to the visible church , though the word be preached to carnall men for their conviction . this proposition is false ( these onely we are to admit to the visihle church , whom we conceive to be saints , and are in the judgement of charity perswaded they are such ) for the apostles admit all professors , even three thousand at one sermon in one day , acts . and they could not be perswaded in the judgement of charity , that they were all saints . . this argument sayth , that all the visible church of ephesus was a spouse betrothed to christ , and saints by calling , which the word of god sayth not . for were all the carnall in corinth betrothed as one chaste virgin to christ ? were these who called themselves apostles in ephesus and tryed by church censures to be liers , revel . . , . betrothed to christ as a chaste virgin ? were all the visible church the sinnes and daughters of the lord god almighty ? and that not only in profession but in some measure of sincerity and truth ? it is true , the stiles given to the church of corinth are too high to be given to hypocrites , but these stiles are not given to that church precisely , as visible and as a professing church , as you suppose , but as an visible and true church of believers : for a church of believers and a church of professors of beliefe are very different . paul writing to the corinthians writeth to a visible church , but he doth not speake alwayes of them as a visible church , but as of an invisible , when he calleth them temples of the holy ghost , saints by calling , &c. he wrote the epistles to the incestuous man , whom he commandeth to cast out of the church . we reade ( saith the author ) acts . . that the lord added to the church such as should be saved , and how then shall we adde to the church , such as god addeth not ; such as have no shew of any spirituall worke in them to any spirituall discerning ? ought not the lords stewards to be faithfull in gods house ? and to doe nothing therein , but as they see god going before them , receiving whom he receiveth , and refusing whom he refuseth . so upon this ground paul willeth the romans to receive a weak brother , because god hath received him , rom. . , , . answ. gods acts of speciall and gratious providence , are not rules of duties to us ; god addeth to the church as it is invisible and christs body , it followeth not therefore we are to adde to the church visible as visible . gods adding is invisible by giving faith and saving grace to some to professe sincerely , because we see not faith nor sincerity , therefore gods adding cannot be a rule to our adding . god doth adde a person falling into an open scandall to the church invisible , having given him true faith , but the church is not to adde him , but to cut him off , if he be obstinate to the church , and refuse him , and so this proveth nothing , nor is the place , rom. . by any , except your selves , expounded of a receiving into a church-communion , as is elsewhere declared . . where there is no shew of saving worke of conversion ; there you thinke the stewards want god going before to receive , but then except god be seene to goe before to regenerate , the church stewards cannot follow to adds such to the church ; but since that same power that casteth out of the church holdeth out of the church , if any after they be received , shall be found to be not added of god , because they be not regenerated , yet we are not to cast any out for non-regeneration , even knowen , except it breake out into scandals , and then the person is not cast out for non-regeneration , for though he were knowen to be regenerated , yet for scandals the church is obliged to cast him out , because the scandall leaveneth the whole church , and. . the casting out is a meane to save the spirit in the day of the lord. but i prove , none are to be cast out for non-regeneration , where there be no outbreakings into scandalls . . because , de occultis ecclesia non judicat , non-regeneration where it is not backed with publick scandalls is a hidden thing , that the church can neither judge nor censure . . none are to be cast out but for such a scandall , that if the party deny , should be proved by two witnesses , as christs law provideth , mat. . . tim. . . . onely publick scandalls which offend many , are to be censured by the church , tim. . . that others may feare . but non-regeneration breaking out into no scandalls , can neither be proved by witnesses , if the party deny , nor is it a seene thing which giveth publick scandalls , and therefore is not the object of church censures . for it is evident though the stewards see some not regenerated , and so not added by the lord to the church they are to adde these same and cannot cast them out . and yet god goeth before them in adding them to the visible church , when they professe the truth . . god addeth such as should be saved to the visible church by baptisme , because the adjoyning to a visible church is a way to salvation , but it followeth not that all whom god addeth to the visible church are saved ones , for then the visible church should consist only of believers , which only anabaptists teach . . whereas he sayth , the stewards should be faithfull , and should not adde except god adde , it seemeth to infer that either all the people are stewards , and so officers contrary to gods word , eph. . . cor. . . or that onely officers admit church-members , which is against our brethrens doctrine , for they teach , that the whole multitude of believers are only to adde and cast out . . if peters confession ( sayth the author ) be a rock on which the visible church ( to which onely the keys are given ) is built , then to receive these who can hold forth no such profession is to build without a foundation . answ. this conclusion is against your selves , no lesse then against us , except all and every one whom you admit , be builded upon this rock ; if there be hypocrites in your church ( as you cannot deny it ) then you build without a foundation . . by this , peter before this confession was an un-churched pastor built upon no church-foundation , . by this place is not proved that the keys are given to the church of believers , but to the ministers , for then against no parochiall church can the gates of hell prevaile . all the fathers with good reason , as augustine , chrysostome , cyrill , tertullian , hieronim . nazianzen , cyprian , ambrose , &c. and our divines against papists ( whom you side with in this ) deny , that christ meaneth here of the visible church , such as rome or corinth , but of the catholick and invisible church . . when ( saith the author ) christ saith , mat. . . friend , how camest thou here not having thy wedding garment , he doth intimate a taxing of these , by whose connivence he came . answ. the contrary is in the text , v. . goe ye therefore to the high wayes , and as many as you finde , bid . here is a charge that ministers invite and call all , and so the church is a company of externally called , though few of them be chosen , as v. . and their obedience is commended , v. . so these servants went out into the high wayes , and gathered together all , as many as they found both good and bad . this is a praising rather then a taxing , seeing they are commanded , without trying or selecting only the regenerated , to call in as many as they finde both good and bad . for as many as you finde is as good in sense , as both good and bad , and the latter doth expound the former , and when the lord commandeth them to bring in as many as they finde , and they finde in the streetes both good and bad , therefore they bee commanded to bring in both good and bad . . yea , the very scope of the parable is contrary to this ; the scope is that many are called externally , and so are the visible church and that by gods speciall command both here , v. . . and luk. . v. . v. . v. . and yet few are chosen , and of the invisible church . and luk. . severall times the servants or pastors call all ( by the lord of the feasts commandement ) without exception of regenerated or not regenerated . . christ in the parable imputeth it to the sleepines and negligence of the servants , that tares were sowen amongst his wheat , mat. . , , . ergo , pastors are to be blamed that there be scandalous persons in the visible church . answ. this doth but strengthren anabaptists who objected the same a it is a fault that a very popish doctor aquinas condemneth . theologia symbolic● non est argumentativa . for it is not said , while the servants sleeped , the envious man did s●w his seed , but while men sleeped , which is spoken ( saith b pareus ) according to the manner of men , for otherwise gods providence can hinder the growing of tares ; and c cajetan saith , here is not accused the negligence of pastors , and certainly since as d bullinger observeth well , christ when he expoundeth the parable , passeth this part of it , to teach us ( as e calvin saith ) not to presse every part and tittle of a parable , except we would be ( saith bullinger ) christo argutiores , sharper sighted then christ , and therefore the author alleadgeth that by sleeping of men is understood the negligence of pastors , but that is beside the text and is not expounded at all of christ , but signifieth that men cannot see the hollownesse and falsehood of hypocrites , till it breake out in their actions , no more then the sleeping husbandman can see when weeds grow up in his f●elds . and if the lord here condemne the sleepinesse of pastors , for suffering scandalcus professors to be members of the church , how doth the lord forbid these servants to plucke up the tares , but to let them grow till harvest ? for he commandeth the officers to cast out of the church and excommunicate the scandalous persons . yea certainly , seeing the field is the field of the visible church , it maketh for us against our brethren , that wicked men are growing in the visible church . it is true that barow with the anabaptistes expound the field to be the field of the world , mistaking christs words , v. . which indeed signifie the field of the visible kingdome of christ , because the world of all mortall men is not the lords field , where he soweth his wheate , but the visible church only is such a field . for seeing the gospell , the immortall seed of the regenerate , pet. . . is not sowen through the whole world of mortall men , psal. . . mat. . , . acts . . but only in the visible church , the field must be christs field , or his world of church-professors . and also by this , their exposition falleth , for then it is the sleepines and sloth of preachers that wicked men are borne in the world of mortall men , which is absurd . we are bidden , tim. . . turne away from such as have a form of godlines , and have denied the power thereof ; ergo , we cannot joyne in church communion with them . answ. it is cleare by this argument , to our brethren , that one and the same reason holdeth for turning away , and separation from all persons and churches , which are not inchurched by covenant , and constituted of visibly regenerated persons , and the not admitting church-members . so our brethren by this professe the lawfulnesse of separation from all churches , except from their owne . . no marvell then paul will have timothy to separate from apostates and from resisters of the truth , v. . and from proud boasters , blasp●emers , traitors . for such are to be excommunicated , as tim. . . . at l●quitur paulus ( saith a parkerus ) de fundamentali corruptione istius doctrinae , qu● est secundum pi●tatem : but paul here forbiddeth to exhort the proud and malitious blasphemers and resisters of the truth , and not to waite upon them any longer , whereas otherwise he had said in the end of the preceding chapter , . . . others , who are detained in the snare of satan , must be waited on , and instructed with meekenesse , if god will give them repentance ; ergo , tim thy was as a pastor to instruct unconverted persons , and to joyne in communion with them , but as for desperate enemies and blasphemers , he was not to waite on them , nor to exhort them with meekenesse . and if this text prove any thing it will conclude against our brethren , that such as deny the power of godlinesse , should not be hearers of the word , and farre lesse ( as our breathren reason ) members of the visible church . can any ( sayth the author ) judge such persons fit materials for the constituting and edifying of a church , who are more fit for the ruine and destruction of the church , such as leave their first love ( as all hypocrites will at length do ) they procure the removall of the candlestick . answ. the argument must be thus formed . all these whom god intendeth shall edifie and not ruine the church , are to be only members of the visible church : but all knowen hypocrites are such ; ergo. the proposition is false , for if we speake of gods secret intention and his decreeing will ; it is not a rule for the church to square and to regulate them in the choysing or refusing church-members , because god intendeth in his decreeing wi●l , that many hypocrites , such as judas and d●mas , shall be church-members , and let our brethren judge if they be fit materialls to edifie the church . if we speake of gods revealed will , the proposition also is false ; for by our brethrens doctrine , it is gods revealed will that the church receive as church-members latent hypocrites , such as simon magus , acts . who are conceived to be regenerated , as the church , acts . conceived simon magus to be a sound believer , as our brethren say , and yet latent hypocrites , are no lesse unfit materialls to build the church , then knowen hypocrites . . we doe not thinke that hypocrites fallen from their first love , and by scandalous living declaring themselves to be such should bee kept in the church . but so the author alleadgeth , revel . . that the church of ephesus falling from her first love , must bee a false constituted church , in which there were members fitter to ruine , then to edifie the church . and yet certaine it is , paul , eph. . and christ , rev●l . . acknowledgeth the church of ephesus to be a true visible church . we passe ( saith the author ) the types of the old testament , which yet are not without their due weight . rough stones were not laid in the building of salomons temple till they were hewen and prepared before , king. . . and behold a greater then salomen is h●re , the attendance of the porteres suffering none to enter into the temple who were uncleane ( chron. . . ) doth evidently type forth the watchfulnesse of the officers of christs church , to suffer none uncleane in estate or in this course of life , to enter into the fellowship of the church , which ought to be a communion of saints . their apology sayth a though all israel were admitted to the fellowship of the ordinances administrated in the synagegne , yet none uncleane were admitted into the temple ; for revel . . without are dogs , &c. so master can and robinson presse this place . answ. in this type many things are loose and doubtfull . . we desire a warrant from the word , that the temple was a type of a visible congregation , and that all must be as really holy before they enter into a visible congregation , as they behoved to be typically holy , who entered into the temple of jerusalem . the temple is a type of christs body , iohn . and of the church of the new testament invisible , which must consist of sanctified ones , but how it is a type of the visible church we see not . for the lords spirituall building whereof the corner-stone and the foundation is christ ▪ is the church invisible built by faith as lively stones upon christ , pet : . . unto you therefore which believe he is precious , v. . yee also as living stones are built up a spirituall house . opposite to the disobedient , v. . who stumble at the word , v. . cor. . . yee are gods building , eph. . , , . expressely the building are these who are built on the doctrine of the prophets and apostles , and grow up into an holy temple in christ , and are the habitation of god through his spirit . this cannot agree to a visible church , the members whereof may be ( as our brethren teach from revel . . ) hypocrites who fall from their first love . yea also the laying on of stones on the bulding is not the act of inchurching , or of union to a church , as it must be , if the comparison prove the poynt , but the joyning of the stones to the building is the union of these stones by faith to christ , the chiefe corner stone , as is expounded , pet. . to whom comming as to a living stone , v. . yee also as liveing stones are built , &c. yea , and peter doth not build this comfortable doctrine all upon the comforts of a church-state in a single congregation ; for many of these to whom he writ , were dispersed and persecuted through pontus , asia , and cappadocia , &c. and might have , and had an union with christ by faith without a church union in a parish . . though in this type were signified a morall obligation , that all before they be inchurched in a visible congregation , should be converted , how is it proved that the church should receive none to a visible congregation till they bee converted ? for these are farre different . all should be converted , but there is no new law commanding the church to receive none into her fellowship , but the converted . . the hewers of stones or builders of the temple , must typifie pastors in office , dressing stones for the spirituall building , our brethren make them to typifie private christians out of office , and deny that any pastors as pastors doe fit and prepare stones to bee layd on the spirituall building . also none layd stones on that temple save onely builders by office , but by our brethrens doctrine , onely pastors doe not convert soules . there were no stones at all in the temple of jerusalem , but choice and well squared stones , are no members of the visible church but the chosen of god ? . if the porters typifie the ministers of visible churches , first only porters hold out the uncleane ; ergo , onely pastors should hold out the scandalous , but you admit the whole church with equall authority to take in , or refuse church-members . . if the temple be a type of the visible church , then no prophane person , nor uncircumcised in heart should meet with the visible church to heare the word , for hearing of the word prophanes the holy things of god. this you cannot say , for infidels may be , as you say , fellow-partners with the church , in hearing the word . . robinson holdeth a that abrahams seed , and so all the jewes were to separate themselves from the world , that they might be a visible church to god , but we read not that the porters were to hold out any wicked person . yea jer. . professedly they came to the temple of the lord who were theeves , adulterers , and wicked persons . and so by that neither are the porters of the visible churches of the new testament to hold out unconverted persons because they are unconverted . lastly , the place , revel . . . for without are dogges , &c. is fouly abused when it is applied to the visible church , where there may be , and ordinarily are dogges ; yea and liers , revel . . . idolaters , v. . napper , pareus , marlorat , expoundeth it of the kingdome of glory , for it is that kingdome spoken of , rev. . . but within that kingdome cannot enter any thing that defileth , neither what soever worketh abomination or maketh a lie , but they which are written in the lambes booke of life , but it is against all reason and the lords word that in the visible church is nothing that defileth , that is no sinne , but onely those who are written in the lambes book of life . this is the very doctrine of anabaptists though we know our deare brethren hate that sect , and their doctrine . a robinson . the purest church on earth may consist of good and bad in gods eye , but the question is about the true and naturall members , whereof the church is orderly gathered , but as it were fond philosophy , in the discription of wives and children , to make rebellion a naturall property of a child , and whoredome of a wife , so it is as profane divinity to make ungodly persons the true matter of the church , and prophanenesse a property of the same , because many seeming saints creepe in . answ. if the holiest church visible on earth consist of good and bad , before god , then to be partakers of the divine nature , temples of the holy ghost , saints by calling , is not of the essence of a visible church , nor is it essentiall to make one a member of the visible church , that he be converted . it is sufficient that he be a professor of the faith. and it is a poore comparison to say , that prophannesse cannot be put in the description of a visible church , for in the essence of a visible church as visible , we neither include holinesse nor propanenesse , but only a visible company professing the faith of christ and called by the ministery of the word , whether they be believers or unbelievers it is all one , neither of the two belongeth to the essence of a visible church : a visible church is saved in the number of fourty , all being converted , or in . being all unconverted , so they be externally called by the ministery of the gospell and prosesse the same . and it is as foolish to make holinesse the essence of a child , as to make it of a visible church , and as vaine to make chastity the essence of a married wife ; for this is not our philosophy , but a conceit of mr. robinson falsely imputed to us . a robinson . all the churches that ever the lord planted consisted of good only , as the church of the angells in heaven and of mankind in paradise . god hath also these same ends in creating and restoring his churches , and if it were the will of god that persons notoriously wicked should be admitted into the church , then should god directly crosse himselfe and his owne ends , and should receive into the visible covenant of grace , such as were out of the visible estate of grace , and should plant such in his church for the glory of his name , as served for no other use , then to cause his name to be blasphemed . answ. this argument proveth that the visible church is not a visible church , except it consist of onely holy and gratious persons , without any mixture ; and so not only holinesse in profession , but holinesse reall and before god is required essentially to a visible church . then pastors , doctors and professors , binding and loosing , clave non errante , are not a visible church . yea , this is downe right anabaptisme that no visible churches are on earth , but such as consist of reall saints only . . it is most ignorantly reasoned , that god in creating man and angells good , did not intend that they should fall by his permission , but that they should continue holy and then god was frustrated of his end , as arminians and socinians teach . so sayth a arminius antiperk . b corvinus . the remonstrants c at dort , and d socinus , that god intendeth and purposeth many things which never come to passe . . his decrees faile and are changed . . men may make gods decrees of election fast and sure , or loose and unsure , as they please . . here is much ignorance that god intendeth nothing that may be against the glory of obedience due to him , as law-giver ; as if sinners and hypocrites being in the church because they are dishonorable to god , should crosse gods end , and purpose : so tertullian e bringeth in some whom he calleth dogges , thus reasoning against providence , which suffereth sinne to be in the world so contrary to his will and goodnesse : and who denieth but christ commanded judas to preach , and that the apostles according to gods will and cammandement received ananias , saphira , simon magus in the visible church by baptizing them ( for i hope the apostles sinned not against gods revealed will in admitting them to the visible church . ) and shall we say that god directly in that crosseth himselfe and his own ends , because god gathered hypocrites into his churcch , and yet they dishonour and blaspheme the name of god ? whiles robinson saith , gods maine end in gathering a visible church is , that they being separated f from the world , may glorifie his name , he speaketh grosse arminianisme , that god faileth in his ends . lastly , he saith that god cannot will that persons notoriously wicked should be in his visible church , for then he should crosse himselfe and his owne ends advert ( notoriously ) is vainely added , seeing we teach that notoriously wicked ought to be cast out of the visible church ; as also if he shall will wicked persons , let alone notoriously wicked , or latent hypocrites to be in the church , yea or in this visible world , he should by this arminian argument crosse himselfe and his owne ends ? do you believe with arminians that gods end is , that angells and men should have stood in obedience , and that a redeemer should never come to save sinners ? and that blasphemy and sinne is against gods purpose and intended end , and that sinne crosseth him ? but when all is done it is his intention and revealed will that hypocrites be invited to the visible and preached covenant , and yet he knoweth that they are out of the visible , yea and invisible state of grace . a robinson . in planting the first church in the seed of the woman , there were only saints without any mixture , now all churches are of one nature and essentiall constitution , and the first is the rule of the rest . answ. though god planted adam and eve two restored persons , to be the first repenting church ; from gods fact you cannot conclude a visible church gathered by men , should be voyd of all mixture , so as it is no visible church ; if it be a mixed company of good and bad , this is contrary to his owne commandement , mat. . go and call as many as you finde . . gods acts are not rules of morall duties , his word and commandement doth regulate us , not his works . god hardeneth pharaos heart , should pharao harden for that his owne heart ? god forbid . robinson . cajan that evill on was broken off , and cast out of the church , and by moses it is imputed for sin , that the sonnes of god married with the daughters of men ; ergo , it is far more unlawful to contract with the wicked in a religious covenant of the communion of saints . answ. wee grant such as cain are to be excommunicated , but what then ? ergo , none can be members of a visible congregation but such as abel , we love not such consequences , a though god forbade his people to marry with the canaanites , yet he forbade not that the godly and ungodly should come to the temple together , and that noah and cursed cham should be in one arke together . . though it be a sinne that the wicked should mix themselves with the godly and come unto the kings supper without the wedding garment , yet that is not the question , but if the pastors inviting all to come to the supper do sin , and . if the church be not a true visible church , though it consist of good and bad . robinson . circumcision is a seale of the righteousnesse of faith , gen. . . rom. . . now to affirme that the lord will seale up with the visible seale of faith any visibly unrighteous and faithlesse person , were , that god should prophane his own ordinance . answ. god doth by this argument profane his owne seale , when a visibly wicked person is sealed with the seale , as when one visibly unrighteous is sealed , for the latent hypocrite profaneth the seale of righteousnesse , as the open and visibly unrighteous and faithlesse person doth . yet it is gods command that the latent hypocrite have the seales of righteousnesse , since the church conceiveth him to be a sound professor ; ergo , by your doctrine god commandeth to prophane his owne seales , but this is the wicked reasoning of arminians , and socinians . so arminians against perkins , corvinus against molin●us , the arminians at the synod of dort would prove an universall grace accompanying the word and sacraments , and they say that sacraments doe not seale remission of sins , redemption in christ , and that they be empty and toome ordinances yea and mocking signes , except all who receive the seales , both elect and repro●ate be redeemed in christ , and have grace to believe . but the truth is , god doth not prophane his owne seales , because he commandeth that they be received with faith : and let us see where any male child , reprobate or elect , borne amongst the iewes , but he is by gods commandement to be circumcised , yet that seale was an empty ordinance to thousands in israel . . nor is the seale , a seale of righteousnesse , actu secundo , sed actu primo it is a seale of righteousnesse , as the word of god is the power of god to salvation , not to all , nor of it selfe , but by the efficacious grace of god , to every one that believes . iohn baptist ( saith robinson ) christ and his apostles being to repaire the desolation of sion , did not by the coactive lawes of men s●● ffle together good and bad , as intending a new monster or chimaera , but admitted of such and none other , as confessed their sins a and justified god , and were not of b the world , but chosen out of it , and c did receive the word gladly , and communicated all of them in all things , as every one had neede , and that in gladnesse and singlenesse of heart , as receiving testimony of the holy ghost himselfe , that they were such as should be saved , as were d all of them purchased by the blood of god , as e for all for whom there was cause to thinke god , as whom the apostle f did remember in his prayers with gladnesse , being perswaded that god would perfect his good worke begun in them , as became him to judge of them all , being all partakers of the grace of god with him in the confirmation of the gospell , and after whom all he longed from the g very heart roote in christ , and for all whom he gave thankes , alwayes making mention of them in his prayers , without ceasing remembring their effectuall faith , diligent love , and patient hope in the lord jesus , which did grow in every one of them . answ. here is much scripture abused to no good use ; . that coactive laws of princes be the onely way of inchurching people , we never taught ; but of this hereafter . . he calleth the kingdome of god which is a draw-net of good and bad h a called company invited to the supper of the gospell , whereof many are called , but few are chosen . i which is the field where grow wheat and tares k the barne-floore wherein is corne and chaffe . l he calleth ( i say ) these men good and bad shuffled together in a new monster or chimaera . sinne is a monster , but that it should be in the world is not without the decree of efficacious providence , except we turne epicures with arminians . . that all and every one baptized by iohn baptist justified god , and were true converts is more charity , then the verity of the text luk. . can warrant . . and that the visible church consisteth onely of men chosen out of the world , as he spake from ioh. . is a plaine contradiction to that ( many are called , but few chosen out of the world ) and serveth much for huberians , who will have all the visible church chosen , and for arminians who make all in gods intention separated from the world , and so make election to life eternall , as universall in the visible church as the preached gospell . . it is an adding to the text , acts . that the visible church ( all of them ) and you say did communicate in all things with singlenesse of heart , and were to be saved . for we have not so much charity to bestow on an●nias , saphira , and simon magus , who were added to the church visible : but why call you this the testimony that the holy ghost giveth of all them ? where did you reade or dreame this ? the holy ghosts testimony is true , and what divinty is it , that all added to the visible church shall be saved ? deeme you with origen and some others that none are eternally d●mned ? . and you say of the visible church , acts , . . all of them were redeemed by the blood of god. if luke had said so , i could have believed it , but your saying is groundles . all whom they are commanded to feede , and all who were to be devoured by grievous wolves , and all the drawen away disciples of false teachers , . . are all these redeemed by the blood of god ? th●● church is an arminian chimaera : that all to whom the gospell is preached by feeders and pastors , must be obliged to believe that christ by his blood redeemed all and every one of them , is arminianisme . a corvinus and b jac. arminius , c nic. grevinchovius d episcopius , e socinus f smaleius g ostorodius will thanke you , for they hold that christ gave his blood for all the damned in hell , and purposely to redeem them , and for his part gave his life for all the world , and especially for the visible church . . that the apostle gave thanks to god , for the sound faith of all who professed the gosspell at rome , and were perswaded that god would perfect the worke of salvation in all and every one of the philippians , is a wicked dreame , that they were all partakers of the grace of the gospell , and that all the thessalonians , without exception had effectuall faith , diligent love , and patient hope . all this is said , without ground of gods word : and contrary to the word . were there none , rom. . servants of sinne ? none who walked after the flesh ? rom. so rom. . and phil. . . . phil. . . thess. . . thess. . , . none in philippi whose god was their belly ? none who minded earthly things ? no dogs ? no evill workers ? a robinson ; the jewes were forbidden by god , under the law to sow their field with diverse seeds , and will he sow his own field with wheate and tares ? and b the lords field is sowen with good seed , mat , , . his vine noble c and all the seed true , his church saints and beloved of god d but through the malice of satan , and negligence of such as keep the field adulterate seed and abominable persons may be . answ. god who is above a law forbiddeth the father to kill the son , yet may he command abraham to kill his son , in positive lawes , such as sowing of seeds , gods practice is not a law to us ; i remember jesuites , especially suarez , didac . ruiz molina , laessius , lod. meratius hiero. fasolus and their disciples , the arminians , labour to prove that god cannot predeterminate the will of man to the positive acts that are in sin : for then he should be the author and cause of sin which he forbiddeth us to do , and he would not do himselfe , say they , that which he forbiddeth us . which is but in the generall a weake answer , for it followeth not hence , that he is the author of the malice , because he praedeterminates the will to the positive act of sinning . for though god in his working providence permit wicked men to be in the church ( as you cannot deny his providence here ) yet doth it not follow , that he soweth wicked men in the church . nor doe we say , that it is the lords appoving and revealed will that hypocrites should joyne with his friends at the marriage supper of the gospell , they wanting their wedding garment . it is hypocrites sin that they joyne themselves to the church , they being heart enemies to the truth . and in this respect god soweth them not in the church . but the question is if the church and pastors sin in receiving such into the bosome of the church , because they see not , in conscience , that they are regenerated : that we deny , yea the servants bid all come whom they finde . mat. . . and that by the commandement of god. and in this respect god doth not plant his visible church a noble vine , and a field sowen with good seed , yea it is his revealed will that the church and the servants of god invite all to come to wisdomes banquet , prov. . . . and so all the called externally are not the choise vines . this you are to prove , that the visible church in all its members , or essentially as it is a visible church is a choise vine , and an holy seed . nor is it the pastors negligence that tares grow in the lords field ( though it be satans malice ) yea the pastors here are to invite all to come in , and to call externally all to come to christ. that they who are invited give not obedience is their own wickednesse , but neither the churches , nor the pastors sinne . ( a ) robinson . there be amongst you hundreds and thousands partakers of the life of god in respect of your persons , but in respect of your church communion , and your ordinances , you are all alike , because you are all alike partakers of one set forme of worship . answ. the church of the jewes so should be a falsely constituted church , because however there were many believers amongst them , yet all are commanded to receive one ministery of sc●ibes and pharisees sitting in moses chaire . but know that the leaven of the externall worship ( except it evert the foundation ) doth not make the church a falsely constituted church . a robinson , mr. smith truely affirmeth your church to be a greater antichristian ministery and worship then rome , as the temple which sanctifieth the gold , and the altar which sanctifieth the offering is greater then the offering : so the temple of the new testament , the church and people of god , by whose faith all the ordinances of the church are sanctified , is greater then the ministery , worship , or any other ordinance , and being idolatrous is a greater idoll . answ. this is a new poynt of divinity that the faith of the ministery or congregation sanctifieth the worship ; as the temple did the gold and the altar the offering : yea though the minister were a judas , and the people latent hypocrites , the ordinances of god lose no authority , for all the ministeriall sanctifying of the ordinances is from christ the instituter , not from the instruments ; and the donatists did suspend the power of the ordinances of god , upon the holinesse , or unholinesse of the instruments . . the ministery in its substance is not antichristian , though it be from the antichrist . for prelates giving of a ministery is not to be measured by the particular intention of the ordainers , but by the nature of gods ordinances , and the generall meaning of all the catbolick church . robinson here objecteth , the law sayth nemo potest plus juris in alium transferre , quam ipse habet . prelates have no calling of god themselves , therefore they cannot give it to others . answ. prelates reduplicativè , as prelates have no calling , yet as pastors they have , and antichristian prelacy destroyeth not the essence of a pastors office in the subject . they object , as a prelate he ordaineth ministers , and not as a pastor . answ. . as a prelate he usurpeth to give a ministery , but as a pastor he giveth it . . he invadeth the place of the church and with consent of the church standeth for the church , though he be not the church , but a simple pastor , therefore what ministery he conferreth , it is the deed and fact of the church . . they object , no man can give that which he hath not . answ. no man can give that which he hath not , neque virtualiter neque formaliter , true ; what he hath in no respect , that he cannot give . what he hath in vertue or in some respect , that he can give . what baptisme the hereticall minister hath ministerially , that he may give validly . a hieronimus saith , the luciferians admitted baptisme conferred by an heretick , but not a ministery , anatolus was consecrated by dioscorus , faelix by the arrians , as mr. b ball observeth . so c bellarmine . d gratian e nazianzen , f august . they say g we finde it by experience that the refusing of church-communion hath been blessed of god , to their conversion who were holden cut . answ. manass●h his being bound in fetters was a meanes of his conversion . david by his afflictions learned to keep gods commandements : did therfore the persecuters of manasseh or david right and lawfully ? the apostles ( say they h had commission to baptize none but disciples , mat. . . answ. see you doubt not of a warrant for baptizing children , who are not disciples : for then the apostles from this place had no warrant to baptize the infants of believers . we should ( say they i open the doores of the church more wi●● then god alloweth , how shall we lay wittingly and willingly dead stones in the living temple ? if christ be a head of pure gold , and the churches golden candlestick , how shall we be allowed to put in leaden members ? answ. this argument is against the lords dispensation , because not without his providence are hypocrites in the church . it is not against his commandement , for he alloweth and commandeth the church to take in hypocrites , so they professe the truth , and so commendeth that leaden toes and members be added to christ the head of gold . christ is the head of the invisible church properly and according to the influence of the life of god , but he is the head of the visible church as it is such according to the influence of common gifts , which may be in reprobates . and they may be this way in christs body , who are not of christs body , as augustine sayth . we are ( say they ) accessary to the prophaning of the lords ordinances . answ. so far as they are notoriously scandalous they are to bee cast out of the church , and debarred from the seales . the church ( say they ) shall be pestered with prophane and carnall men , and the blind shall lead the blind , if all be admitted to church f●llowship . answ. the admission or keeping in of all to partake especially of the lords supper , we doe not allow . . the multitude of carnall men in the church is an inconvenience of providence , and resulteth by accident , from the receiving of professors to christs body visible ; but it is no kindly fruit growing therefrom . a faithfull servant ( say they a would admit none into his lords house , but servicable instruments , therefore neither may the stewards of gods house ( which is a spirituall building ) admit any but men of spirituall gifts , living stones , sanctifyed and meet for the lords worke. answ. the comparison halteth many wayes . . all in a noble mans house , are not stewards , you make all the church to be stewards having the power of the keys to put in , and out . . members are received into the church , not onely because they are serviceable , for the masters use , but to be made servicable and to be polished by the word of god , and care of pastors , but servants are taken into great houses because they are servicable ; for if that follow , that they are made more servicable , it is not the intent of the lord of the house , or of the under-stewards . . the oeconomy of princes houses is no rule for the government of the house of the king of kings . mr. coachman b while the materialls and pillars of the house are rotten , and the house founded upon briers , brambles and rubbish , that is , while wicked men are members , no discipline , 〈◊〉 reformation , no censures , no election by the multitude will doe good . answ. the connexion is naught , the fruit and power of gods ordinances depend not upon the conversion or non-conversion of the instruments , the preaching , sacraments , censures are of themselves golden and exercisers and dispensers thereof , following christs direction therein are golden , eatenus in so far , though in respect of their personall estate they be wooden and clay members voyd of faith . . it is false that the visible church is founded upon men or their faith. god strengtheneth the barres of his own sion . and christ and the gospell are the pillars thereof . nay the church strandeth not upon peter and paul and the apostles faith subjective , because the apostles were holy men and believers , but upon the apostles faith objectivè , that is , upon the saving truth that the apostles delivered from christ to the churches , ephes. . . cor. . , . mat. , v. . quest. . whether or no there be a true church communion with ordinary hearers of the word , who cannot be admitted to the lords supper , and what union excommunicated persons who d● heare the word have with the visible church ? and how the preaching of the gospell is an essentiall note of the visible church ? for the clearing of these confiderable poynts tending much to a fuller understanding of a true visible church in its right constitution , let these considerations make way to what we can say of these poynts . . dist. there is a difference betwixt ordinary and setled bearers of the word , and transient and occasionall hearers . . dist. publick ordinary preaching for the converting of soul●● is a publick church - worship . another set way of ordinary publick use of converting soules , by preachers not in office , wee know not . . dist. some be members of the visible church properly and strictly , such as are admitted to all the seales of the covenant and holy things of god. others are lesse properly , or in an inferiour degree , members of the visible church , such as are baptized and are ordinary hearers of the word , but not admitted to the lords supper , of old the catechumenoi were such . as there be decr●●s of citizens , some having all the priviledges of the city and some onely right to some priviledges , but not to all . . some have right to all , and are most properly in the visible church . . dist. excommunication being medicinall and for edificati●● , cannot cut off the member close , except we should confound killing and curing . . dist. there is a note of a ministeriall church , such as is preaching of the word of god , and a note of the visible church of believers , and obedience professed to the word preached is such a note . . dist. preaching of the word may well be a note of the church invisible in fieri while it is in gathering , because god purposeth to convert where the word is purely preached . . a note of the invisible church already constituted , in so far as it is obeyed . and. . a note of the ministeriall church , in respect where god holdeth out the standard of the preached word , there is his ordered army . . conclusi . to communicate with the church ordinatily and of set purpose is an act of externall church communion . . because if the preacher in preaching edifie the church convened for that effect to receive edification , and if he convince the i●fidell by preaching and cause him fall downe and worship god , and report that god is in that meeting , then to communicate with the church in hearing and preaching is an act of externall church communion . because an act of worship terminated and bounded upon the church is a church-act . but the prophet prophecying in publick to the church edifieth the church and converteth infidells in causing them to worship & acknowledge gods presence in a church-meeting . as is cleare . . cor. . . he that prophecieth , edifieth the church . v. . v. . seek that you excell to the edifying of the church . . yet in the church i had rather speak five words with my understanding , &c. . if therefore the whole church be come together into some place and all speake with tongues , and there come in these that are unlearned and unbelievers , will they not say that yee are mad ? . but if all prophecy and there come in one that believeth not , or one that is unlearned , he is convinced of all , &c. and that this is a church-meeting formally , it is cleare , because it is said , . let your women keepe silence in the churches , now women out of a church-meetings are not commanded silence , for tit. . . they are to teach the younger women : and at home in the house , prov. . . she openeth her mouth with wisdome , and the law of grace is in her lips . acts . . and upon the first day of the week the disciples came together to breake bread , and paul preached to them . had they not then a church communion in hearing the word , as in the receiving the sacrament : our brethren say that eating one bread together at the lords table is properly a church communion . for thereby , we may eat one bread we are one body , for we all partake of one bread cor. . . but heating one word is not a church-communion , because infidels and turkes who are not members of the church may heare one word , cor. . . i answer . wee speake of a professed and resolved hearing . turks and infidels comming in without purpose to joyne with the church , as cor. . . . are not such hearers . . if this were a good reason , a latent hypocrite eating one bread with sound believers at the lords table , should keepe no church-communion with the church , for by our brethrens doctrine , a ●ypocrilt is no more in deed and truth a member of the visible church then a leg of wood is a member of a living body . but we hold that he is a true member of the church as visible , and that his binding and loosing with the church ( suppose he be an elder ) is no lesse valid in heaven , when christs order is followed , then the binding and loosing of a believing elder , and therefore that his eating at the lords table is an act of externall church-communion , and of visible fellowship in a visible body , and the same is every way strong for a visible church-fellowship , in hearing the word , for that same christ and fellowship with him , which is sealed in the sacrament , is preached in the word ; and as joynt communicating of hypocrites and believers is an externall church-communion , ought to seale an internall communion with christ and his church , so the joynt-hearing in a professed adjoyning to the visible church it a compartning visible in a visible worship , and a prosessing of an union with that same christ and his church in the same word preached . for as the apostle concludeth the unity of the catholick church by one baptisme , so doth he conclude it from one faith , and one lord of the covenant preached to all . . the visible church of called and chosen , and not chosen , is the scope of the parable , mat. . and luk. . . . &c. now v. . mat. . all are bidden come to the supper , and be joynt-hearers of the word of the gospell , though all be not choses who are externally called . . also if converting of soules to the faith of christ be the most formall and specifick act of edifying , and of laying stones upon the chiese corner stone in the building , pet. . . . seeing edifying is the end whereof christ ascending on high , gifted his visible church with pastors and doctors , eph. . , , . then hea●ing and joynt-hearing of a sent pastor , rom. . . must be formally externall co●worshiping in a visible church . for our brethren hold that there be now no pastors under the new testament , but in relation to a particular and visible congregation . now if our brethren say , that pastorall teaching is an act of a visible church , hearing of pastorall preaching must also be an act of church worship . for they are relata quae se mutuo ponunt & tollunt ; yea members of a visible congregation have no church-worship except receiving of the sacraments and church censures , if hearing of a pastor be not church-worship . . under the new testament every congregation to our brethren is a visible mount sion . now if under the new testament the people are to incite one another to publick church worship , and say . let us go to the mountaine of the lord , to the house of the god of jacob. and he will teach us his wayes , esa. . . and if they shall publickly worship and aske the way to sion , that they may be joyned in covenant to the lord , jer. . v. . then is hearing of he doctrine of gods wayes and covenant , a publick church-worship , and the service of the church or house of the god of jacob . but the former is true ; ergo , so is the latter . . if it be not church-worship to heare the word , a pure and sound preaching of the word is no note of the church , contrary to the word , and the unanimous consent of the reformed churches . . hearing of the word is a worshiping of god. ergo , the church-hearing of the word must be church-worship . for all professing by their visible communion in hearing the word , one faith , one lord , one hope of glory , and that as one visible body , must thereby testifie they be all joynt-worshippers of christ and of one god , whose covenant they preach and heare . . professed hearing separateth a visible member of the church ( in genere notarum visibilium , in the kind of visible marks ) from an infidell and turke no lesse then the receiving of the lords supper doth . . professed hearing maketh the hearer under a ty of being particularly rebuked of his sinne , but particular pastorall rebuking being done by the power of the keyes presupposeth the rebuked to be within ; for the church cannot judge those who are without . . conclu . excommunicated persons though they be debarred from the lords supper , and delivered to satan , and to be accompted as heathen and publicans , yet are they not altogether and every way cut off from the visible church . . thess. . . if any obey not our word by letter , ●arke such an one , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with the note of excommunication ( saith a beza ) and have no fellowship with him , that he may be ashamed , that is , as calvin well expoundeth , exclude him out of the company of the faithfull , and excommunicate him . so also c bullingerus d marlorat and e iodoc. vullichius , v. . yet accompt him not as an enemy , but admonish him as a brother . i know mr. robinson f denieth this place to be understood of any excommunicated person , but he willeth the thessalonians not to countenance , but to shew their dislike of idle persons ▪ and his reasons are . . because if christ biddeth accompt the excommunicated person as an heathen and a publican , would paul thereafter accompt him as a brother ? . idolaters and hereticks are to be excommunicated , and will you have such a brotherhood , as brother idolater ? but i answer , . we read not in the new testament , where christ , or his apostles bid break off christian fellowship with any but there is excommunication signified . if these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , have no fellowship with him , that he may be ashamed , signifie , not to forbeare fellowship with him , as a cast out person , but only to shew their dislike of the sin , that he may see it , and be ashamed : as robinson sayth , there is no more punishment to be inflicted on a contumacious person who will not obey the apostles words , then is inflicted for any sinne to which contumacy is not added ; for we are to shew our dislike of any sinne , even the seene infirmities of our brethren . for augustine saith , peccatum tuum est , quic quid tibi non displicet , every sin in another is thine , against which thou shewest not thy dislike . . the law of nature doth inforce , that lev , . . we should generally rebuk our brethren , and so shew our dislike for any sinne . . be not mixed in fellowship with such a man , is a publicke ab●●nence from communion with him , else it doth not shame him . for every showen dislike or not-communion with another in his sinne , is not that which will put publick shame on him , that he may repent , as is intimated here . . christ biddeth not accompt him a publican , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a note of similitude . simile qua simile non est idem . every thing like is not the same . so that he may well be accompted as an heathen , not being altogether an heathen , and yet a brother , whose salvation and gaining you must intend . nor is it altogether against the comparison of christ , and that gentle waiting on perverse idolaters and excommunicate persons to admonish them as brethren . seing it becommeth us to be mercifull as our heavenly father is , tim. , . mat. . . and we must forgive our offending brethren seventy seven times , mat. . . and therefore though he were twice excommunicated , he is to be dealt with as a brother . and an idolatrous brother is no worse then a samaritan neighbour or friend . . if excommunication be a medicine of the church toward a sick sonne , the end whereof is salvation , that the spirit may be saved in the lords day , cor. . . that he may learne not to blaspheme , tim . . that be may be gained , mat. . . ergo , he is not altogether cut off from the church , for delivering to satan is medicinall , not vindictive , as the great excommunication is which is called anathema maranatha , which we cannot use , but against such , as have sinned the sin against the holy ghrist , and is hardly discerned , and i would think , such an one as julian the apostate should be debarred from the communion of the word preached . but these who are ordinarily excommunicated for contumacy and particular faults , and not for universall apostacy , are not altogether excluded from all brotherhood of the church . . if the excommunicate person be excluded from all priviledges of church-fellowship , then also is he excluded from hearing the word as a sick patient under church-medicine , for it is a pastorall , and so to our brethren a church-act , that the shepheard strengthen the diseased , heale that which is sick , bind up that which is broken , bring againe that which is driven away , seeke that which is lost , ezec. . . and feed the flock with knowledge , as a pastor according to gods heart and a bishop . jer. . . act. . . pet. . . jerem. . , , . jer. . . esay . . z●ch . . , , , . it is a pastorall act to preach with all authority , reprove , rebuke , exhort with all long suffering and doctrine , tim. . . . he should as a pastor teach sound doctrine , exhort , convince the gainsayers , and silence heretickes , tit. . . but seeing the excommunicated person is not excluded from hearing the word , and the pastor hath a pastorall care of his soule , and is to intend that his spirit may be saved in the day of the lord , cor. . . he cannot be utterly cut off from all church-fellowship . also this authour a saith , that church-members are to be admonished , and if we doe it not , we hate them in our heart , levit. . . and if we warne not an achan , his sin is the sin of all israel . now if an excommunicated brother remaine one , whom we are to gaine , and whose salvation we are to intend , if he be an ordinary coworshipper in hearing , the object of pastorall and brotherly teaching and admonishing , he cannot be wholly excluded from all church-fellowship . and this also proveth that these be members of the visible church in some degree of church-worship , who yet are deba●red from the ●eale● of the covenant . and it cannot be said that the excommunicated person ought not to rebuke his brother , and not hate him in his heart , as levit. . . penall excommunication looseth not from the law of nature . but our brethren make rebuking and mutuall exhorting one of another church duties of watchfulnesse ; then is the excommunicated in some degree of church-membership . nor can our brethren here reply with good reason . indians and turks may heare the word as well as the excommunicated person , and therefore hearing of the word is no note of church communion . i answer , the turke and indian must heare the word , but at the by , and not professedly ; but the excommunicated person by the●ty of his covenant made in baptisme , and that relation he hath to the church under whose cure he is , for the saving of his spirit , and to that gospel which he professeth , is obliged to the church-communion of publique hearing the word ; yea , and according to his oath given , to be subject to the ministery of such a man whom he chose for his pastor , to give obedience to him in the lord , however in that one particular for which he is cast cut , he hath failed against all the foresaid obligations . . the church , as a visible church , exerciseth no medicinall acts upon turks or heathen persons , and doth not repute them as heathen , but doth repute them to be heathen . nor hath the pastors any pastorall charge of turkes and heathens , except they would desire to be baptized and professe the faith . but the church as the church exerciseth medicinall acts of shunning christian f●ll●wship with the excommunicated , and that with a continuated intention even when he is excommunicated , that his spirit may be saved in the day of god , and the pastor hath a pastorall , and so a ministeriall care and obligation of pastorall teaching , admonishing and perswading him to returne to god. . neither doe we meane with a suarez and other schoolmen , that excommunication doth not so cut off a member as it removeth not that baptismall character , or that passive power to receive the sacraments ; or that the prayers of the church are not offered of direct intention , for the inwardly humbled and repenting excommunicated person , while the sentence of absolution be pronounced by the church , as b soto , c adrianus , d and alanus thinketh , because forsooth f innocentius . saith , the excommunicated person , though repenting , and doing what he can to be reconciled to the church , yet without absolution from the censure , he is mortuus ecclesiasticè dead ecclesiastically , and so in heaven also . though g navar , h turrecremata , i richard , k anton. thinke the penitent excommunicated person is included in the generall desires of the church in their prayers , because it is not the intention of the church to exclude a true and living member of christs body from a communion spirituall with christ. but our meaning is , that the excommunicated person is deprived of actuall fellowship with christ in the seales of the covenant , as the l councell of arausican , a gremio 〈◊〉 matris ecclesiae & consortio totius christianitatis climina●us . his sin is bound in heaven , yet so as the salvation of his spirit is intended by the church , see for this m augustine . we understand not a baptismall character , except regeneration and 〈◊〉 of sins , which cannot be taken away by excommunication , and therefore a morall claime to the holy things of god , and that for that time and state is rather removed , then any internall right to christ. therfore some say , in this he loseth rather possessionem quam jus , possession then right . as a nobleman , for some offence , of three dwelling houses that he hath , is confined to one of the three , so as he may not remove from that one ; yet doth he not lose right to the other two . . our brethrens doctrine is , that none can be judged and excommunicated , but those who are within the visible church ; n now none are within to them but such as are supposed to be regenerated and saints ; yea and more , faithfull brethren , not onely in profession ( saith our o authour ) but also in some measure of sincerity and truth . hence none are to be excommunicated and delivered to satan , but regenerated persons ; then it cannot be the churches mind , that the excommunicated persons are wholy cut off from the visible church , since they being the true matter of the church , as our brethren teach , remains therefore a part of christs body in covenant with god , having right to the promises of the covenant , and so these to whom the keyes are given , by our brethrens grounds , and are regenerated , can onely be excommunicated , and none else can be excommunicated , by their way also , for the unregenerated are without , and so cannot be cast out . i know not what mr. robinson can meane p that the church cannot cast out ( as he saith ) any part or parcell of her true matter . the church cannot excommunicate the regenerated , . because ( saith he ) the true matter of the church , hath the forme and essence of the church , and the church cannot cast out her owne essence . . the church should deliver to satan the true members of christs body , which he abhorreth to write . but i have learned of q mr. coachman that onely the converted are to be excommunicated , because they have a spirit to be saved in the day of the lord , cor. . the non-converted are flesh ▪ but truely this is strange , paul speaketh of the incestuous person according to the judgement of charity , as supposing hi● to have flesh and spirit , as he professeth himselfe to be a member of the church ; but truely this is weake : for in the same chapter paul will have drunkards , railers , extortioners , idolaters , to be excommunicated . peter did really excommunicate simon magus excluding him from part and portion in the visible church . act. . . and are such not to be excommunicated because they cannot be cast out , who were never within ? see into what inconveniences our brethren are fallen , while they agree ( i speake with reverence of those godly men ) with anabaptists in the nature of the visible church . but truely hypocrites are within the church , and when their hypocrisie doth breake out into grievous scandals , they are to be cast out of the visible church ; but they cannot indeed be cast out of the invisible church , because they were never within the same , but our brethren still doe confound the visible and invisible church , which in nature and essence are opposed by way of contradiction , if augustine say right , multae oves extra visiblem ecclesiam , & multi lupi intra . for the church invisible as it is such and essentially , is not the church visible ; and the church visible is not essentially invisible . but to returne to robinson , if the regenerate cannot be excommunicated , they cannot fall into such grievous sinnes as incest , murder , and contumacy to the church , which deserveth excommunication . but this latter none can say but novatians . ergo , neither can the former be said . the major is undeniable , whosoever can , and may commit sins deserving excommunication , are to be excommunicated , as christ saith , matth. . . . and paul , cor. . , . now if the converted cannot fall into grievous sins against the church , such as contumacy ; neither can they fall into grievous sins against god , . by this doctrine no professors are to be excommunicated at all , for all within the visible church are either converted or non-converted ; the converted are not to be excommunicated , saith robinson , because they are the true members of the church , and of christs body ; now the non-converted far lesse can be excommunicated , because those cannot be cast out who are not within , as our brethren teach . for they are the false matter of the church , and no part of it , yea ( and as our authour saith , ) have no measure of sincerity and truth ; and therefore cannot be members of the church . now the church ( say our brethren ) cannot judge those which are without , cor. . . this opinion is just the opinion of the anabaptists , that the true members of the visible church are onely regenerate persons , and they onely have the essence of the true membership , which is false ; they are within the visible church , and truely within the net , and a part of the ground called the kingdome of god , matth. . . though they be not members of the invisible church of believers and the redeemed in christ. . the nicolaitans , iezabel , the false apostles , the spreaders of balaams doctrine , revel . . and those who offend in christs kingdome are all necessarily either not to be excommunicated at all , or necessarily they are all unconverted , by robinsons doctrine , or all converted , by mr. coachmans way . and the church then shall not bind and loose in heaven , but clave errante , except they be all known certainly to be converted who are excommunicated , or certainly knowne not to be converted . but this were ridiculous ; the object of excommunication by christ is one which refuseth to heare the church , whether he be converted , or not converted . . all our divines standing for the cerainty of the perseverance of the regenerated , answer papists and arminians alledging for the apostacy of the saints , the example of the regenerated who may be excommunicated , that excommunication doth never evince that the person excommunicated is out of the state of grace , but onely that he hath fallen into a scandalous externall fact , which deserveth that he should be delivered to satan , and that one may be a member of the visible church and converted to god , who is excommunicated . lastly , robinsons arguments doe bewray great ignorance in the doctrine of the true church ; to wit , that first it should follow , that if the church excommunicate a converted person , it should destroy its own essence ; for conversion is the essence of the invisible church , not of the visible church , and is not destroyed by excommunication . but the beleever is edified thereby , for he is delivered to satan for the destruction of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord ; but that he is cut off from the visible church is no more inconvenient , then to cut off a rotten apostume of excrescent carnosity of the body , which hurteth the physicall integrity of the body , but doth not take away any part of the essence , so as it should not thereafter be a living body . his mixt argument hath a cry , but no force ; it should follow that the member of christs body ( saith he ) should be delivered to satan ; which is not inconvenient , for this is the ordinance of christ to save the mens spirit , and to teach him not to blasph●me , cor. . . tim. . . it were an inconvenience to deliver a member of christ to satan morally , as cor. . . this is a sinfull deliverance , when one is given over to satan , that satan may worke in him as in his work-house , and as in a childe of disobedience , ephes. . . a converted soule cannot thus be delivered to satan , and this we abhor to write , no lesse then robinson . but to deliver to satan penally , as to a penall tortuter who worketh sorrow and feare in the conscience for sinne , to humble the offender , and to save his spirit in the day of christ , is neither horrour by word nor by writ , but the word of god , cor. . . now to say something of the sorts and nature of excommunication . we acknowledge not what a navarrus and b gregory say , that excommunication , whether just or unjust , is to be feared ; for , the curse causl●sly doth not fall . the sentence is either given out , a jure , vel ab homine by the law , or the persons . secondly , it is either just or unjust . thirdly , and that three wayes ; exanimo , good or ill zeal ; secondly , ex causa , a just or unjust cause ; thirdly , ex ordine , when order of law is kept . an unjust sentence is either valid or null . that which is invalid is either invalid through defect of the good minde of the excommunicators , and this is not essentiall to the excommuncations validitie . that which is invalid this way onely , ligat , it bindeth in fo●o exteriore . but that which is u●just through want of a just cause , it onely bindeth from externall communion ; but because gods ordinances are to be measured from their own nature , and the generall intention of the catholike church , and not from abuses and particular intentions of such excommunicators ; therefore they doe not exclude from the generall church-desires . the fourth councell of carthage , c as also d gerson saith , an unjust sentence neminem gravare debet ; should affright no man. i see not a warrant for division of excommunication into penall and not penall excommunication . the ancients made some excommunication not penall , as the e fifth councell of carthage , and f concilium arelatense . g turraconense , h concilium agathense . as if one should culpably absent himselfe from a synod , erat privatus episcoporum communione ; he was for a space excommunicated from the communion of other bishops . the canonists i infer , that this excommunication was no church-censure ; and k m. antonius of spalato defendeth them in this . but since christ for scandals appointed onely publike rebuking ; or secondly , confessing ; or thirdly , excommunication from the church , not onely of church guides , but of professing beleevers ; l we see not how any are to be excommunicated from the fellowship of the clergy , or church-guides onely . for christ ordained no such excommunication . and therefore wee are to repute this a popish device . zosimus m saith zancbius , n celestinus , o hormisda and pelagius . p did threaten to excommunicate iohn of constantinople from the communion of the apostolike seat , and of all bishops . spalato his argument q for this sort of excommunication is , thessalonians . . which commandeth all thessalonians to forbeare any fellowship with such as obeyeth not the apostles doctrine , and doth not infinuate any excommunication from the society of church-guides onely . nay , such an excommunication is not in gods word . cajetan r calleth it excommunicatio claustralis , whereby some were interdicted the company of some other church-orders . it is true , that in the ancient church the excommunicated person was debarred from comming to the church to heare divine service . and sylvester appointeth three degrees of excommunication ; first , debarring of the contumacious from entring into the church ; secondly , a suspending of them from communion with the church ; thirdly , an anathema or imprecation by cursing them . so the fifth synod under symmachus appointed first that the contumacious should be deprived of the communion ; and if he should not repent , it was ordained , ●● anathemate feriatur , that he should be cursed . so say diverse of the schoolmen and casuists , as s soto , t paludanus , u cajetanus , x sylvester , y navarrus , that it is not lawfull to heart service , or to be present at a masse with an excommunicated person . but in the z fourth councell of carthage , as a papists acknowledge , no excommunicated person is debarred from hearing the word . but it is to bee observed carefully , that for the same reasons papists think the excommunicated persons should heare sermons and the word preached , that our brethren say , because preaching is an act of jurisdiction and authority , but not an act of order ; and therefore preaching is not an act of church-communion , but common to any who have not received orders , and may be performed , as the reading of the vvord by deacons , and those who have priest-hood or power to administrate the sacraments . and b innocentius the third saith , preaching is proper to priests , who have received orders by no divine law. c indeed leo the first made a law of it , for which cause d suarez saith , that christ in these words , iohn . feed m●sheep ; and matth. . preach the gospel ; gave power of jurisdiction , but not of order onely : it is given commonly ( saith he ) to the clergy to preach , and to deacons , because decentius , it is more fi●ly and decently performed by them then by laicks . though it be true that two cardinals , e toletus and f cajetanus be against suarez in this , and say , that , iohn . peter is made the head and universall pastor over sheep and lambs to feed and governe them . and g navarrus saith , preaching ( soli sacerdotio institutione divina adjuncta est ) is by divine institution proper to the priesthood . yet this excluding of them from comming into the church , was from comming in to the holy place only where the lords supper was celebrated ; and they stood at the church doore where they might heare the vvord , and therefore were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hearers and murmurers , as h bas●lius saith , and i field , excommunication doth not wholly ( saith he ) cut off men from the visible church , and his reason is good , because they may and often doeretaine , first , the profession of pure truth ; secondly , the character of baptisme ; thirdly , they professe obedience to their pastors ; fourthly , they will not joyne to any other communion . and therefore to say with our author k we dare not , to wit , that though the seed of faith may remaine in the excommunicated person ; yet to the society of the faithfull joyned in a particular visible church , they are not knit , but wholly cut off from their communion . also , he is delivered unto satan , and therefore wholly cut off from the communion of the church ; and so from the seals , he and his seed , as heathen and heathens seed are . we condemne novatians , because ( as l cyprian saith ) they denied mercy to the repenting excommunicated person , and because ( as m socrates said of them ) god onely can forgive sins . and we condemne the donatists , who would not ( as n augustine saith ) receive into the churches commmunion againe such as had delivered to persecuters the bible and other holy things . so we are to condemne these who are more rigorous toward such as are excommunicated , then christ is : for christ keepeth them , as sick children , within his visible church , and useth satan as the physitians servant who boyleth herbs and dresseth drugs for them , while he by gods permission , tormente●hthes spirit with the conscience of sinne . as when a child is sick ( saith worthy o cartwright ) the father calleth a colledge of physicians to consult about medicine , to be given to the child . so i● the contumacious person under the medicine of excommunication administred by the church-presbytery . now this wee cannot say of heathen and publicans . and therefore p augustine sayth excellently , excommunicated persons non esse ethnicos , sed tanquam ethnicos ; are not heathen , but estemed as heathen . c. . and q chrysostome saith the same in sense . yea , i gather this necessary distinction out of the fathers : as chrysostome r theophylactus s hilarius t that they are not members of the visible church actu pleno , in a full act , because they want externall communion with the church , yet actu imperfecto , imperfectly they are members . a second distinction i collect from w ireneus x gregorius y hieronim . z optatus a augustine , that they are exclusi ab ecclesia quoad communionem , non ab ecclesia ipsa . they are excluded from the visible communion of the church , rather then from the church . a third distinction may be drawen from b eugenius c chrysostome d gregor . nazianz●● , while they call baptisme januam spiritualem , and lavacrum animae , the doore of our entry to the church ( for which cause papists , though fondly , place their font at the church-doore ) as the lavat●r of the soule . so as excommunicated persons are within the doore of the visible church , though not admitted to the kings table . . the schoolemen do allow to the excommunicated persons , jus , non consortium ; right , but not fellowsh ●● . e turr●cremaeta f vega. g soto h canus insin●●● distinctionem inter partes & membra ecclesiae visibilis , because of some externall communion that they have , as teeth are parts of the body in a new borne infant ; but they are not members , but they deny them to be members because they are cut off . . i suarez excellently , pr●vantur quoad communicationemcum al●s membris , non quoad esse membri . they are deprived acording to the act of communion with other members , not as if they ceased to be members ; as a member which cannot receive nourishment is yet still a member . our divines from scripture make three degrees of excommunication . . a debarring from the lords supper , mat. . . but it is not indeed a delivering to satan or excommunication : this is called the lesser excommunication . . a delivering to satan , the greater excommunication . cor. . . . of this we speake here especially . . maran-atha in the syriack an is utter cursing till christs second comming . . conclus . wee hold the preaching of the word to be an essentia note of the visible church . our brethren as k mr. coachman l robinson m our present author , deny that the profession or preaching of the word is a true note of the visible church . because , acts , paul preached to the scoffing athenians , who were not for that a visible church . . papists have some of gods ordinances , and hereticks also , as baptisme ; and the old and new testament as the philistins had the arke of god amongst them . . the word may be preached , where christ is but gathering a church , and so is a meane of gathering a church , and therefore not an essentiall note of a gathered and constituted church . but herein our brethren say no more against the reformed churches , then n stapleton ; to wit , that truth of doctrine is no note of the church , because it is not perpetuall and constant . . truth of doctrine concurs to give being to the church and to the constitution of it . o bellarm. this note may be found in other societies and companies beside the church , a● amongst scismaticks and hereticks . more of this please the reader to see in p costerus q in the jesuite gordonius , huntlaeus . and this is the doctrine of socinians , as may be seene in the cathechisme of r raccovia s in theo. nicolaides , and t francis. smalcius , and arminians second both in their w confession : because they think with socinians , that there is no ministery now necessary , and so publick preaching is not a note of the church , especially since every gifted man may preach the word . socinus in his tractate de ecclesiâ , and his catechisme of raccovia , saith . notae evangelicorum nihil valent ; ' doctrina pura est ecclesiae natura & essentia quae dat ei esse , ad●óque signum ejus esse non potest ; cum signum ipsum , a re c●jus est signum , differre oporteat . but the truth is , the preaching of the word hath diverse relations . . as the members of the visible church are in fi●ri , in the way to be gathered , the word preached and believed is a way of gathering a church , rom. . . cor. . . cor. . . acts . . . that same word preached , believed , and outwardly professed is a signe of the visible church . for where gods pastors and shepheards are , there be flocks of redeemed ones , cant. . . iohn . , , . the word simply preached and professed in a setled way of a fixed ministery is a note of a ministeriall church ; this is cleare from gods intention , for he sendeth it of purpose to save his own , as rom. . . acts . . for a man lighteth not a candle in his house for nothing . so this word preached , as it is gods word , is not properly the forme and essence of the church , but as believed and received , it is the forme of the church invisible . . but to professe this word savingly , est signum ecclesiae , non not a , it is a signe , that doth not infallibly notifie to us that such is for this time an invisible church of redeemed ones : for i have not infallible certainty what one man , or what determinate number of men by name are true believers , profession may beguile me , as also the invisible church ( as such ) is believed , and not knowen infallibly by any note or externall marke that incurreth into the senses . neither is the preaching of the word a note or infallible marke of the church ministeriall to all , or in relation to infidels ; for the word preached actu primo & ex naturâ suâ , essentially and of its own nature , is more knowen and more sensible then the church : because the preached word is a doctrine expounding what the true church is , and we do not expound ignotum per ignotius , vel per aequè ignotum . darknesse cannot let us see darknesse , or colours ; only light doth reveale things . but the word preached in relation to unbelievers cannot be an infallible note of the church , for to a blind man the morning as not a sensible marke that the sun is rising ; nor is smoake to a dead man , a sensible marke of fire , because he hath no senses to discerne either . so to the infidell though the word as a sound , or in a literall evidence be clearer then the church , and in a confused knowledge he knoweth the one better than the other ; yet is the true word , in respect of certaine knowledge and spirituall evidence , as darke to him as the church : for he hath not eares to heare , nor eyes to see any of the things of god , either the word preached , or the church ; and therefore the word is both by nature and to us , & naturâ & nobis , in respect of distinct knowledge , more knowen , but not simply as the word , actu primo , but actu secundo , as it both striketh upon outward and inward senses and as i● revealeth and discovereth the things of god , according to that , cor. . . but if all prophecy , and there come one who is an unbeliever , and an unlearned , he is convinced of all and judged of all . v. . and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest , and so falling downe on his face , he will worship god and report that god is in you , of a truth . so here is gods order how the word preached is a notifying marke discovering to an unbeliever the true church . it i would poynt out one of the kings courtiers by this , that he hath a purple cloak and a blew scarf , if the man to whom i notifie the courtier , do neither know what a purple garment is , nor what a blew scarf is , the marke shall be no marke to him : yet are these sufficient markes in their owne nature , if we suppose that no other courtiers are in that manner apparelled . therefore i would difference betwixt notam notificantem & notam notificativam , a note that of its owne nature doth make a thing knowen , or that which actually maketh a thing knowen to some . the settled professed preaching of the word is a note of the visible church ministeriall , and that there either is , or in gods own time shall be some invisible church of sanctified ones there . . because , deut. . the hearing and doing of gods word maketh the church of the jewes a renowned and wise people in the fight of the nations . . the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments are proper to the church and distinguish them from other nations , psal. . . hee sheweth his word unto iacob , and to israel his statutes and his judgments , . he hath not dealt so with any nation . so deut. . . . the lords worship is so peculiar to his church as it differenceth them from all others . so esd. . . . esa. . last verse . . the church is defined , acts . . a company of these who professe truly , and continue in the apostles doctrine and breaking of bread . . the planting and gathering of churches is expounded to be teaching and baptizing , mat. . . . . christs sheep heare his voyce in his own sent shepheards , joh. . . . the church is a company built upon the doctrine of the prophets and apostles , eph. . . the church is the pillar and ground of truth , tim. . . because the church teacheth , professeth , and keepeth the truth . so a augustine b tertullian c hierom. d and chrysostome will have us to seeke the true church by the true word of god , and not by mens word . e robinson objecteth first ; profession of the truth made by men of lewd conversation maketh them not the church ; because they deserve to be cast out of the church , but by men visibly and externally holy , mat. . . acts . . act. . , . cor. . . mat. . . . acts . , . answ. these and many other places do strongly prove our poynt ; and especially , that the profession of simon magus who before god deserved to be cast out of the church , acts . is sufficient to make one a member of a visible church . yea but none deserve in foro ecclesiae , in the churches court to becast out , but such as either confesse scandalous sins , or are contumacious , or convicted judicially of the same before witnesses , otherwayes the dearest to christ , do legally before god deserve all to be cast out . robinson saith , the word in the bible is no note of the true church , but the word believed and obeyed ; for papists have the bible . and f mr. coachman saith , the philistims had the arke amongst them ; and a iesuit at a river side baptized with a skoop a thousand indians ; were they for that a true church ? and papists , ( saith our g authour ) have baptisme . ans. the like is objected by socinus , theoph. nicolaides , cattch . raccoviensis , and by anabaptists . but first we make not the word and materiall bible , and naked seales the marks of the true invisible church ; we are now disputing about the markes of a visible church . . we make not the naked presence of word and sacraments true markes of the church ; but a setled professed erected feeding by shepheards , feeding with knowledge , we make a marke of the shepheards tents ; which way neither philistines nor indians have the word of god : and for the church of rome ; we cannot deny but she retaineth so much of the essence of a ministeriall church , as maketh baptisme administrated by them to be true baptisme , that is , a valid seale , though she cannot 〈◊〉 be called a true ministeriall church . other two questions here are shortly to be discussed , as belonging to this purpose ; as . whether discipline be a marke of the visible church ? mr. robinson h saith , the power of censures is simply necessary for the being of the church , sundry of our divines affirm it is . so the i learned professors of leyden , and k ursin with pareus . great l junius saith , it is a note belonging to the churches order , ad decorum , the m augustine confession leaveth it out from amongst the notes , and so doth calvin n and whittakerus o make two notes onely , word and sacraments . learned p beza maketh onely the preaching of the word a note , not excluding the other two . i thinke distinctions may help the matter ; . there is a power of discipline , and there is a care thereof . true churches have a power given them of christ , and this robinson proveth , and no more ; yet the care to exercise the power may be wanting in a true church . . distinct. right discipline is not necessary for the essence of a visible church . all our divines condemne anabaptists and pelagians , who plead that righteous men onely , and such societies as have right discipline to be true churches . . novatians and donatists came neere to them in this also , as we may see in q augustine . so r rich. field , s parker , t cartwright make it necessary to the wel-being of the church ; . because it is not indifferent . . because it is commanded in gods word . . discipline in the substantiall points is immutable . . it is necessary in respect of the end . and all this w the learned parker demonstrateth to be true . but it is not necessary simply to the being of it : as a city may be without walls , a garden without an hedge . . distinct. the power and right to discipline is a propriety essentiall to the church , and is not removed from it , till god remove the candlesticke , and the church cease to be a visible church ; but the exercise may be wanting and the church a true visible church , from which we are not to separate . discipline is a necessary note and unseparable from a visible church , whole , intire , and not lame and imperfect . but ● church may retaine the essence and being of a visible church , and yet have no discipline in actuall use , or little , and though want of discipline doe leaven a church , yet it doth not ( as robinson saith ) evert the nature thereof , and turne it into babylon and a den of dragons . robinson will have prophanenesse and impiety by absolute necessity rooted out by discipline , but he is too hasty . nay not by publique preaching of a sent pastor , through absolute , but onely through ordinary and conditionall necessity . you bind the almighty too hard . the other question is , if conversion of sinners be an ordinary effect of a publique and sent ministery ? our brethren in their answer to the questions sent to them , deny this ; but no marvell , seeing all conversion to them is done without the publique ministery by onely private christians , and in this we see no necessity of a called ministery to convert men to christ , which is the doctrine of socinians and anabaptists . so x chemnitius , so y gastius teacheth . the socinian z theo. nicolaides , luther erred , ( saith he ) when he asked from muncerus his calling to preach , muncerus was an anabaptist . so a ostorodius in his institutions , and b raddetius who objected the same that our brethren doe , that the whole beleevers be a royall priesthood . but though we deny not , but some may be converted by the teaching and private conference of private christians ; yet the ordinary publique way is by the word preached by a se●● pastor , as is cleare , rom. . . cor. . . acts . . acts . , , &c. chap. . sect . . concerning our order and form in administration of gods publique worship . the authour here contendeth for the worship of god in its native simplicity , without all ceremonies ; to which i can oppose nothing , but shall prove the unlawfulnesse of humane ceremonies in another treatise , god-willing . of the communion of the visible catholique church . iesus christ hath now under the n. testament a catholique visible church on earth ( for of that part of the catholique church now triumphing in glory ; or of that part which onely is a church of elected saints , and are not yet formally a professing church , but onely such in the predestinatiun of god , i spake not now ) and to this church universall , visible , hath the lord given a ministery , and all his ordinances of word and sacrament principally and primarily and to the ministery and guides of this catholique visible church hath the lord committed the keyes , as to the first subject , and for the visible church catholique , including also the invisible church ; as for the object and end hath he given his ordinances and the power of the keyes ; and the ministery and ordinances are not given to this or this congregation which meeteth ordinarily in one place , principally , . the lord iesus gave this ministeriall power to the universall guides of the catholick church , the apostles as they did represent the presbytery of the whole catholick visible church , ioh. . . as my father sent me , so send i you . . and when he had thus sayd he breathed on them , and said , receive the holy ghost . whosoever sinnes you remit , they are remitted ; and whosoever sinnes you retaine , they are retained . the apostles here receive the keys in name of the whole catholick ministeriall guides . for in this the apostles must stand in the person and roome of a single society of believers united by a church covenant in one parishonall church , if our brethrens grounds stand good ; so as a parishionall church must be the onely successors of the apostles , but this no word of god can warrant . nor is the eldership of a single congregation that which the apostles here represented ; except you say to this eldership , as to the first subject , is this message of sending , as the father sent christ , committed , and to this eldership within one congregation is the power ministeriall of pardoning and retaining sinnes given ; for i aske , from whence , or from whose hands do the eldership of a congregation receive the keys ? from jesus christ , say they , but this is no answer , the ministery according to its institution is no doubt onely from the head of the body the church , from iesus christ. but i aske now of an ordinary church-calling ; and i demand from whose hands under jesus christ have this particular eldership received ministeriall power : they cannot say from themselves , for they doe not make themselves ministers : they will not say from a colledge of presbyters of many congregations , for they are flatly against all such presbyteries , and that which they say indeed , the eldership of a congregation hath their ministeriall power from the people . well then , the apostles when they received the keys they did represent the people : but what people ? not the people of a classicall presbytery , of a province , of a nation , of the whole redeemed church , but of one single congregation ; how shall this be made out of the text , or out of one word of god , i see not . . christ ascending on high , and giving some to be apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , and some pastors and teachers , . for the perfecting of the saints , ( not of ephesus , far lesse of one single congregation onely ) for the worke of the ministery ( in generall ) for the edifying of the body of christ ( not a congregationall body onely ) . till we all meet in the unity of the faith , and of the knowledge of the sonne of god , unto a perfit man , unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of christ. consider i pray you , that christs intention in giving a ministery is not for a congregation of forty , or sixty , or a hundred , as if hee intended to impawn all power in that congregationall body ; but hee intended the edifying of his body catholick , and the comming of all to the unity of the faith. a congregation of sixty cannot be all saints , and this power is clearely given to that body , which the lord is to make a perfit man , according to the measure of the fulnesse of the stature of christ , this is a mysticall man , and the catholick body of iesus christ. call it a congregation and you wrest the scripture , and vilifie the noble and large end for the which christ hath given a ministery : as aske to what end , and to what first and principall subject hath the lord given reason and a faculty of discoursing , is it to peter , to iohn , &c. as to the first subject , and for them as for their good ? no , no , it is for and to the race of mankind . the case is is just so here , cor. . . god hath placed some in the church , first apostles , secondarily prophets , thirdly teachers , &c. is the meaning thus ? god hath placed in the body of a single congregation apostles ? where do you read that ? i believe apostles have the catholick visible church for their parish ; and is it a congregationall body , wherein god placed such variety of members , as apostles , prophets , teachers , workes of miracles , gifts of healing , helps , governments , & c ? so rom. . . so we being many are one body in christ , and every one members of another . hence hee reckoneth out divers offices in this body . now this is not one congregation onely , but that one body of christ whereof christ is head , this is the catholick church . . what power ministeriall our brethren affirme to bee given to a congregation , they say it is given to them under the notion of a flock of redeemed ones , of the spouse , and body of christ , as they cite for this act , . . & col. . . eph. . and under the notion of the city of god , the kingdome , house and building of christ , but so they come to our hand , for this reduplication , or notion of a flock of redeemed ones , of the body and spouse of christ , of the city , kingdome , house , building , agree first to the catholick church as is clear , col. . . eph. . . tim. . . eph. . , , , . and secondarily only to a congregation as it is a part of this universall flock . . the whole catholick church visible is made one ministeriall body cant. . . beautifull as tirzah , comely as the city of jerusalem , terrible as an army with banners . by reason of their order of discipline , and is there called an organicall body having v. . eyes , haire , teeth temples , locks and haveing particular churchs under her , three score queens , fourescore concubines , and virgins without number . yet is it sayd , v. . my dove , my undesiled is but one , she is the only one of her mother . ainsworth who here may be more then a witnesse , sayth this one church is the daughter of jerusalem who is above and the mother of us ●ll . c●ton a witnesse not inferior saith on this place : the true catholick church of christ is the mother of all reformed daughters , and that argument that our brethren useth to prove a particular church to be visible , because of externall communion ( not in one house , for that is accidentall to visibility , one congregation may meet in three caves of the earth , in time of persecution , and yet remaine one congregation ) holdeth good in this catholick church made up of so many organs , as a congregation is formed . . begetting by the ministery of the word , daughter-churches to god , as they say a congregation doth , nor is it enough to say ierusalem is not one by externall government and order of discipline , because they cannot meet together to exercise discipline , but shee is one invisibly , because shee hath one faith , one lord , one baptisme , one spirit , one hope of glory . for the text sayth , they have one and the same organs , teeth , eyes , haire , temples , locks ; they are one ierusalem , and compact city , one army terrible by the sword of of discipline . . we do not say , to make them one visible church , that they must have one visible actuall government , in externall order : for when of a congregation of . their be absent through sicknesse and the busines of a lawfull calling , they are one church visible , though in one metting you cannot see them all with one cast of your eye ; and when the church of ierusalem exceeding in number ten thousand , did meet in part . from house to house , that is in sundry houses ; yet continuing in the same doctrine of the apostles , and in fellowship and in breaking of bread , and in prayer , acts . . . our brethren will say , they are one church . and therefore the power of discipline , and the exercise of the word , seales , and discipline in parts , is sufficient to make one visible catholick church . . to that church hath christ given , as to the first church , the ordinances and ministery , which he principally intendeth to perfit , to gather , and to bring to the unity of faith in a perfit body by these ordinances and that ministery ; because the wisdome of christ hath not given his ministery , and ordinances to the catholick church , intending principally to save them , except he give them a power in that ministery to the first subject , which being put forth in acts may compasse that end . but jesus christ principally intends , to perfit to gather , to bring to the unity of faith in a perfit body , by these ordinances and ministery , the whole catholick visible church , and secondarily only this or this particular congregation . ergo , christ hath given to the whole catholick church , as to the first church , the ordinances and ministery , and so in this mioistery catholick , hee ha h given the keys to this catholick church visible as to the first church . . i prove it thus , when ever chrst giveth gifts to a whole , he giveth it to the whole , by order of nature , before he give it to the parts of that whole , as is cleare by induction . he gives christ a gift to the whole church , by order of nature , first to the world , joh. . . then to this or this believer of the world. so he giveth redemption and grace by order of nature first to his church in generall , eph. . . christ dieth first for his church , not this or that single company , or particular person , first for his sheep , that is , the whole flock , joh. . v. . then for this or this company , or this of this straying sheep ; he came to seeke and save , first the lost , luk. . . then this or this lost man. he died first to gather together in one , not one man onely , yee not the nation of the iewes onely , but to gather together in one , all the children of god , which were scattered abroad , ioh. . . and he is a propitiatiou by order of nature . first , for the sinnes of the whole world , ioh. . . and then secondarily , for our sinnes , so hath hee given the gifts of apostles , prophets , and teachers , first to , and for saints , in common and in generall , and not for this and that saint , or for this company of saints at ephesus . now that particular congregations are parts of the great visible church ; i prove , and first that they are parts visible of a presbytery , or a circuit of congregations , within the locall bounds of a presbytery . i make good thus . those who have one common necessary object of externall government in church-affairs , those are a whole visible community gifted with power from christ to rule in that common and necessary object of government , and this and this portion of this whole community must be parts of that whole . but those congregations within the locall bounds of the circuit of a presbytery have one common necessary object of externall government , in church affaires ; ergo , those congregations in such a circuit must be parts of this whole . the major i take from our brethren , who therefore make a particular congreation to be one in respect of ordinary meeting , to partake of word , seales , and to transect matters of jurisdiction , amongst themselves , but this agreeth to many congregations within one circuit , for they meet occasionally one with another in hearing the word and receiving the seales ; and for the assumption i prove it thus , all those congregations have these particulars of externall government in church affaires , which they cannot transact within their owne congregations , but doe ex aequo belong to them all . as . that they doe not give offence one to another ; that one church doe not hold the doctrine of balaam to the effence and scandall of other churches . . that one congregation make not acts and canons against the word of god , and against the acts of another congregation agreeable to the word of god. . that one church admonish , rebuke , comfort , provoke another to love and to good works , in such and such poynts ; now though a congregation make acts and constitutions for governing this , or that member of the community ; yet they doe not , nor cannot make acts that oblige the community and the church as the church ; the church as the church being a part is to be regulated by the whole , and if there be things that ex aequo concerne all , and doe not concerne one particular church more then another , one particular congregation cannot governe in these . and by the like reason particular churches and classicall presbyteries , and provinciall and nationall churches , are parts of the whole catholick visible church . . because christ hath not given the power of ministery and ordinances , and jurisdiction to the single congregation as to the first subject upon the ground that our brethren speake , to wit , because the single congregation is that spouse to which christ is referred as an husband , and that body to which hee carrieth the relation of an head , communicating life to all the members , eph. . . col. . . nor is it that adequat number of ransomed persons , of sheepe , of lost ones , of fellow-citizens , of spirituall stones , &c. to the which christ doth carry that adequat and compleat relation of a saviour , of a good shepheard , of a seeker of lost ones , of a king and governour , of the chiefe c●●ner-stone . therefore that visible church for whose salvation christ hath given the ministeriall power , must be the larger visible church , just as the god of nature hath given to the whole race of sheep , a power to seeke their own food , and because of their simplicity , a power to be ordered and led by the shepheard , and secondarily this power is given to this or this flock feeding on mount caermel , or elsewhere : so hath the god of grace given a power to the whole visible catholick flock to submit themselves , in the lord , to other guides , and he hath given to the whole company of shepheards as to the first subject the power of the keys , and secondarily the power is given to this or this visible church , and company of pastors . . when any scandalous person is delivered to satan , he is cast out of the whole catholick church ; ergo , he was before his ejection a member of the whole catholick church , for hecannot be cast out , who was never within . and when he is excommunicated , his sins bound , as in heaven , so on earth , that is , not only in that tract of ground , where a handfull of a little congregation independent ( as they say ) of or or an doth ordinarily feed , but in all the visible world where god hath a church . and all both within the little congregation where hee is , and without , are to repute him as an heathen and a publican . it is true some of our brethren say , he is excommunicated onely out of that congregation whereof hee is a member antecedentèr , because christ hath given the power of excommunication onely cor. . . to the congregated church , when they are met together to deliver to satan , and they must do it , in collegio , in consessu , coram tota ecclesia , before and in presence of the church congregationall , which is to give their consent and hath a certaine power of interest in the busines , but he is cast out and excommunicated to all other churches onely consequentèr , by consequent , and by vertue of the communion of churches : i answer , the plaine contrary ; hee is antecedentèr and formally delivered to satan , by the power of the catholick visible church which is put forth in exercises , and in act before that church whereof he is a neerest member . even as the left hand doth cut off a finger of the right hand , which otherwayes should infect the whole body . now it is not the left hand onely that cutteth off the contagious and infectious finger , but the whole man , deliberate reason and the will consenteth it should be done for the preservation of the whole man ; the left hand is a meere instrument , and the losse of the finger is the losse of the whole body , and the finger is cut off the right hand not antedentèr , and onely off the right hand by that power intrinsecall onely in the right hand , but intrinsecall in the whole body ; it is true the contagion should creepe through , and infect the right hand , and right arme first , and therefore incision is made upon the right hand . so if the eldership of a congregation deliver to satan , it is not done by that power that is intrinseally onely in that congregation , but by the power intrinsecall in the whole universall church , who shall keepe communion with him that eldership cuts him off as the instrument , or hand of the church catholick , and the incision ( as it were ) is performed there in that meeting ( i will not say of the whole congregation , that is to be proved ) because the contagion shall come first upon these with whom the delinquent is to keepe the nearest fellowship , and that excommunication be performed in a meeting i grant , and the place , cor. . . saith so much , and a meeting of the church . but that that is a meeting of the congregation ▪ with favour of the learned , cannot be proved cogently ; though i thinke excommunication when it is actually performed , it should be done before the congregation , but that is for the edification and nearest and most immediate practice of that congregation , for the contagion is nearest to them , but the reason why the presence of the congregation whereof the delinquent is a member is requisit , is not because this congregation hath the sole intrinsecall power in her selfe ; and because shee onely doth formally and antecedentèr excommunicate , and the rest of the churches consequenter , and by vertue of a communion : for the sister churches are to debarre this excomunicate person from their communion with christ in the seales of the covenant , and that by an intrinsecall authoritative , and church power , where as if he were not excommunicated , they should have received him to a communion with them in the seales , and that by an intrinsecall authoritative and church power , for one man cannot receive another to the seales of the covenant with him ; because no one man hath a church authority . if therefore the church as the church is consociated by an intrinsecall church-power should have admitted him , if he had not been excommunicated , it is evident that hee was a member not onely of the congregation out of which he is excommunicated , but also of the whole consociated congregations . , the man sins are bound on earth antecedentèr , to all the consociated churches . he is now equally uncapable of church-fellowship in all the consociated churches , as in that congregation whereof he is a member . all without and within that congregation are to hold him for no visible saint ; not to eate or drinke with him , he is now to all the visible churches , in regard of visible communion , no member of that body whereof jesus christ is head , no part of that city , of that building whereof christ is the lord and chief corner-stone . and he is to the sister churches in their authoritative & church-estimation ( to speake so ) and in relation to their power of jurisdiction , in the very same case a member of satan , that hee is in relation to the authoritative power of jurisdiction of that congregation whereof he was a neerest member ; just as the finger cut off is alike separated from the body , yea the whole body as from the hand ; and it is a wonder to me that christ giveth an intrinsecall power to a congregation of twenty believers to cut off a member , for the preservation of that little company of the lords flock , and that he hath denied that intrinserall power to the whole , which is no lesse in danger to be infected , seeing christ principally intendeth in the giving of a ministery to the whole church , especially the gathering of the whole body ; to the full and perfit stature of the age of christ , in the unity of faith , eph. . . yet he intendeth the salvation & preservation of the whole from infection more then the salvation of a part of this whole body . that is , as it you would say , the god of nature hath given an intrinsecall power to five hundred in a city to set guides over themselves and to rule themselves by wholesome lawes , but hee hath denied that power to the whole city consisting of ten thousand ; and he hath given to the right hand an intrinsecall power to consent that a finger in the right hand infected with a gangrene , be cut off , but he hath denied this intrinsecall power to the whole man. i beseech you doth the god of nature in conferring this power to the right arme , intend the preservation of the right arme onely , and its wellbeing , and not rather the preservation of the whole body ? so doth not christ intend that the whole consociated churches shall be preserved from infection , and not that particular congregation onely ? then if christs meanes be congruously fitted for his owne end , he must have given an intrinsecall power to many consociated churches to cast out a contagious lumpe ; other wayes the consociated churches are to exercise the punishment of avoyding the excommunicated person as an heathen , which floweth from a power which is no wayes in them ; what conscience is here ? . what if the congregation cast the man out , clave errante , and undeservedly ? shall they , consequentèr , as sister churches , in a brutish fraternity execute a sentence of a power intrinserall in another church , and not any of them , or their guides have any power to discerne , whether the censure be justly or unjustly infflicted ? this our brethren condemne in their owne congregation : for because the reputing the ejected man an heathen , is a matter of practise , that concerneth the conscience of every one of the congregation , therefore must all the congregation give their powers and consent ; yea do more then consent ( say some ) even exercise jurisdiction , or a power not different from it . some things are objected against this way . ob. . the power of the keys cannot be given to the catholick representative church , or catholick presbytery , as to the first subject to be an ordinary and constant meane of edification ; the exercise whereof , in an ordinary and constant way , is unpossible ; but the exercise of this ministeriall power given to the catholick visible presbytery , as to the first subject , in an ordinary and constant way , is unpossible ; ergo , such a power is not given to the catholick representative church , as to the first subject , to be an ordinary and constant meane of edification . the proposition is cleare , it is uncongruous to the wisdome of jesus christ that hee should give that to bee a meane , which possibly cannot attaine the end . the assumption is as evident ; for the catholick visible presbytery cannot meete in an ordinary and constant way . answ. . by distinguishing the major proposition ; that power of the keyes remote cannot be given to the catholick presbytery as to the first subject , the exercise whereof in an ordinary and constant way is impossile physically and ex natura rei . true , but now the assumption is false ; that neerer power cannot be given as a meane of edification , the exercise whereof is morally and through the corruption of mens nature physically impossible . that is false , and denyed , and in either sense the conclusion cannot be true . . i grant the whole , and yet nothing is concluded against us . for the power of the keyes is not given to the catholick presbytery as to the first subject , to be a meane of edification in an ordinary and constant way ; but onely in an extraordinay and occasionall way , in those things which concerne the power of jurisdiction belonging to the whole catholick church . by ( extraordinary ) here i meane not that which is against a particular law of god , and cannot bee done without a divine dispensation of providence , but by ( extraordinary ) i meane that which is rarò contingens , and doth not oft fall out ; as almost it never falleth out that the universall church hath neede to excommunicate a nationall church , for all and every one of a nationall church doe never fall away from the faith. yet a remote power for excommunication , is in the catholique visible church . . it is objected , if the visible catholick church be the first and principall subject of all church-power , then a presbyteriall church cannot excommunicate , but by a power derived from the catholick visible presbytery , and so the presbytery should ●● excommunicate , but by consulting with the catholique visible church , but this latter were impossible and absurd ; ergo , so must the antecedent be . the counexion is proved thus ; for as ●● things have beate in so farre as they partake of the fire ; because heate is originally in the fire , as in the first subject , so all churches exercising excommunication must partake of the power of censures , that is , first and principally in the originall subject , to wit , in the catholick visible church . and it would seeme that none can use or put forthin acts , the power of the catholique church visible , without the conscience of the catholique church visible . answ. this occasioneth me to speake somwhat of the power of the presbyteriall and catholick church . hence i say . . with submission to the learned . first , it is an hard way of arguing , to reason from the power to the severall exercises and diverse acts of the power . our brethren hold that all power of the keys , and all power ministeriall of preaching , administrating the seales , is originally in caetu sidelium , in a church of believers : but they cannot say that therefore the acts of preaching , administrating of the sacraments and all acts of jurisdiction can be exercised by the believers , because they are the first subject . secondly , the farther that the members , or churches either congregationall , presbyteriall , or nationall are removed in locall distance , one from another ; the lesse is the visible and externall communion of rebuking , comforting , and admonishing one another ; yet the power and obligation of these duties are not removed . so though the nationall churches be locally distant one from another , yet their power of exercising duties , and so their power of jurisdiction , in an o●cumenicke councell , is not from thence concluded to be null . yea , nationall duties upon occasion are still obligatory● and communion of men of sundry nations is cleare to mee , esai . . . many nations shall flow unto the mountaine of the lords house , zach. . . ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations , they even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a jew , saying , we will goe with you , for wee have heard that god is with you . i do not say , these nations doe meete all in one synod , but the places doe well prove the power lawfull of performing duties , whereas the exercise of them in one place is not hic & nunc , in ordinary providence , possible . and so this consequence must be weake ; the whole catholick visible churches in their principall guides cannot ordinarily , and constantly meet , hic & nunc , for the exercise of their power ; ergo , they have no such power . for if the power be exercised in parts , which through occurrences of providence , and the corruption of mens nature cannot be exercised in whole , at once ; yet it s not hence evinced to be a power not given of christ for e●ification ; for by our brethrens grant three thousand are added to the congregationall church of jerusalem , acts . and to this church of three thousand , and a hundred and twenty , christ hath given the ordinary power of the keyes as to the first subject , though through occurences of providence , and the corruption of mans nature , some of these , suppose a thousand , through sicknesse , pest , danger of persecution , and sinfull separating from the assembly of saints , could not hic & nunc meet in one house , to exercise joyntly all the acts of that power which our brethren say is given to them by christ ; they cannot say therefore christ never gave to this whole church consisting of three thousand and a hundred and twenty , any such power . thirdly , there is a great difference betwixt the power given ad esse simplictèr , to the being of a church , and the power given ad benè esse tantùm , onely to the well-being . . great difference also there is betwixt ordinary power to be exercised constantly , and ordinarily , because of neerer consociation of the churches , in those things that concerne that church in particular : suppose a presbyteriall or congregationall church , and a power to be exercised , but more rarely , not ordinarily , because of the lesse communion visible , and great locall distance of churches , as it falleth out in the whole visible church . now from this . first , the ordinary power of jurisdiction because of neerest vicinity , and contiguity of members is given by jesus christ to one congregation in an isle . . because that church is a church properly so called , though it be not a perfit and complete church . i say it is a church properly so called , because . . it is a little city , and a little kingdome of jesus christ having within it selfe power of the word and sacraments : and that is a church and hath the essence of a church to which agree the essentiall notes of a visible church . now preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments are essentiall notes of a visible church . but i say it is not a compleate and perfit church in the latitude of visibility , ( for churches , are lesse or more visible , according as they have lesse or more visible communion ) for visible communion constituteth a visible church . now a congregation in a remote island hath a lesse communion visible with other visible churches , then conscciated visible churches have . . it is not compleate and perfit in its operations , because in case of doubts of conscience touching government and practice , and dogmaticall poynts , it wants the joynt authority , and power of jurisdiction needfull for the well-being of a church , which it should have , if it were consociated with many other congregations : so as wee say an hand with five fingers is a compleate hand , but it is not a compleat organicall body , but a part of the organicall body of a man ; so is a congregation a church wanting nothing of the being and essence of a church ; yet is it incompleate , because it is a part or member of a presbyteriall church , and not being consociated wanteth that which belongeth to the well being of a compleat visible church . for visibility of a church must have a latitude , because it is an accident or adjunct of an organicall politick body , which is totum integrale . secondly , the ordinary power of ordinary jurisdiction in a more perfit way , because of ordinary and perfiter consociation , is given to the presbyteriall church , as to the proper subject in the constant and ordinary exercise of discipline , because contignity being the foundation of visible externall government , the presbyteriell church of ierusalem , ephesus corinth , antioch , and rome , is a perfit compleat consocia●d body . to which the power of ordination , exauthoration , or deprivation of pastors , of excommunication in a constant and ordinary way doth belong . for this is a principle of church-policy . every politick body of christ hath power of church government within it selfe . but a presbyteriall church is such . . this is a received maxime also . quod tangit omnes . ab omnibus , suo more , tractari debet . vvhat concerneth all , should be agitated by all , according to their degrees of concernment , but excom nunication of a person , in a consociated church , concerneth all the consociated churches in a presbytery ; all are scandalized , all may be , and are in danger to be leavened with the infectious lumpe . and here it is to be observed , that as preaching of the word is an essentiall note of the visible church , and agreeing to the visible church , as necessary ad esse simpliciter , to the very being of a visible church . for if the word as preached and some way promulgated be not in such a society , we cannot call it a visible church ; so discipline is a note of the visible church , and necessary ad bene esse , and it cannot be a ministeriall church in a good condition exercising acts of edification , if the wall of discipline be broken downe : and meeting in one place for word and sacraments is but accidentall for a ministeriall church . if the word be preached , and the sacraments administrated in sundry congregations , though not in a presbyteriall church all convened in all its members in one place , yet hath the presbyteriall church the essentiall note of a visible church . because there is a difference betwixt carrying the colours in an army tali modo , as all the army at once may see the colours , and the carrying of the colours . yet the colours are a note visible of such an army : so there is a difference betwixt preaching the word , simpliciter , and preaching the word , tali modo ; in such a way in one materiall house onely . and therefore it is necessary that government which concerneth many churches consociated , be in its exercise hic & nunc , larger then preaching of the word in its exercise , hic & nunc : which cannot be done , but to a multitude which conveneth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the same materiall place . and we see an act of government , acts . by confession of our brethren , belonging to divers consociated churches and performed by them , and yet these cannot ordinarily meete to one and the same place in all their members for hearing of the word . thirdly , an extraordinary , and remote power of jurisdiction which is but rarely and in extraordinary cases to be put forth in acts , is given to the catholick visible presbytery of the whole catholick visible church . because the oommunion externall and visible is lesse , where the locall distance of visible churches is more : and therefore because oecumenicall councells , being necessary for the catholick visible church , neque ad esse simpliciter , neque ad b●●è esse , sed ad melius seu optimum esse , neither in respect of the churches being , nor in respect of the churches well-being , ●u● onely in respect of her best and most spirituall well-being , these councells are seldome to be had in an ordinary providence . for the cresse of iesus christ is rather a marke of the catholick visible church , then bellarmine his prospe●ous condition , that he will have to be one of his fifteene notes of the church : and since the church cannot have her wishes , the want of generall councells is the catholick churches crosse , not her sin ; we doe not say that god is deficient in meanes necessary to his church , or to some of his owne children ; because the woman hath wings given her of god to stie to the wildernesse to hide her selfe from the dragon , rev. . . and so cannot enjoy gods ordinary presence , in his sanctuary . nor doe wee say that god hath denied a power to his church in the wildernesse , to enjoy them in a visible sanctuary , i meane a morall power , and jus , a right and interest in that presence , because he interrupteth the churches physicall power , for a while , in the injoying of these comforts of a visible church-communion , in the sanctuary . fourthly , hence it doth not follow , that because the catholick representative visible church is the first subject of the power of the keys , that the power of excommunication is derived from the visible church to a presbyteriall church , or that a presbyteriall church cannot excommunicate without consulting with , or fetching authority from the catholick visible church : because the catholick visible church is a great integrall body of iesus christ , and he is the head of this body ; because though the power of seeing by order of nature be first in the whole man , and then in the eye , yet the power of seeing in the eye is not derived from the rest of the body , from hands , leggs , shoulders , armes , to the eye . the light is first in the whole body of the sun , as the first and prime subject of light ; yet supposing now the received opinion of astronomers , that the body of the sun doth exceede the quantity of the earth an hundred sixty and seven times , it doth not follow that this or that part of the sun hath no light intrinsecall in it ; but that which is derived from the whole body of the sun ; for then this or this part of the sun should have borrowed light derived to it from another : so the soule doth at one and the same instant , animate , and quicken the whole organized body as its first matter and subject , but it doth not follow that the hand hath life derived to it from the whole body : so because the power of the keyes is also intrinsecall in the presbytery , as in an o●cumenicall councell : it doth not follow , that the power that is intrinsecall in the presbytery is by derivation , or borrowed and at the second hand , from the catholick presbytery of the whole world ; farre lesse that the presbytery cannot excommunicate , except it consult with the catholick visible church . the power of the keys , by order of nature , is onely in the catholick representative church as in the first subject , but in order of time this power is communicated from the head christ to all the integrall parts of this great body according to the capacity of every part , so as it is intrinsecall in the particular eldership of a single congregation in these poynts of discipline , that concerne a congregation as a congregation , and it is intrinsecall in the classicall presbytery as it is such , and it is intrinsecall in the provinciall , and nationall synod , in poynts belonging to them as such . . they object ; if a single congregation have not power of excommunication , and of entire and compleat government within it selfe , because it is but a part of a presbyteriall church , and so an incompleat church : by that same reason a presbyteriall church shall be a compleate church , and not have entire and compleat power of government within it selfe ; because a presbyteriall church is a part of a provinciall church , and a provinciall church shall be in the same case , because it is a part of a nationall church , and a nationall church , in that same case ; because it is a part of the catholick visible church , and there shall bee no perfit visible church on earth , which hath full and entire power of jurisdiction , save onely the caholicke visible church , which by no possibility can convene , before her oecunenick and highest catholick court , a nationall church , or the church of great brittaine , and upon the testimony of three witnesses deliver her to satan , and upon supposall of repentance receive her againe to the catholick power of that same court ; into fellowship of church-union with the great catholick body . for so because this catholick church , for many centuries , yea possibly for a million of yeeres , cannot convene to exercise her authority in a court ( and out of her court shee hath none ) the repenting nationall church , shall remaine in satans bands for ever , by a physicall and invincible necessity . answ. a single congregation is a church , but so as it is a part also and a member of a presbyteriall church , and because of neernesse of communion with consociated churches under one presbytery ; it can neither have compleat power of casting out one of its owne members , because that member hath so strict a visible union of membership also with consociated churches , nor can it exercise that intrinsecall power that it hath as a remote part of christs catholick body , but the case for ordinary and constant power of ordinary and constant jurisdiction is not so in a presbyteriall , in a provinciall , in a nationall , in the catholick visible body . and therefore it followeth not that they are not compleat bodies , and entire churches for all ordinarie and constant jurisdiction ; and the reason is cleare , because synods or synodicall churches above a presbytery to me are not ordinary ; not constant courts , but extraordinary , and prore nata occasionall , having their rise from some occurrence of providence , as is most cleare , by scripture . the church of ephesus being a presbyteriall church , did constantly exercise discipline , and try false prophets , and those which called themselves iewes , but were lievs , revel . . . whereas that famous councell at ierusalem was not an ordinary and constant court , but extraordinary , that is , occasionall ( for so i take the word , for expressions cause ) and had its rise , acts . . from a meere occasion , because some came from iudea and taught the brethren , except yee be circumcised after the manner of moses , you cannot be saved , and the subject of this court was not the constant and ordinary affaires of discipline , that belonged to the presbytery of ierusalem , and antioch . no , v. . the subject was only an incident controversy raised by false teachers , subverters of soules , v. . and therefore it is said , v. . the apostles and elders , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to consider of this matter ; therefore the presbyteriall church hath both word and sacraments dispensed in it distributively through all the churches , and for the power of jurisdiction ordinary intensivè , and quoad essentiam ecclesiae ministerialis , according to the entire essence of a ministeriall church , it is as perfit and compleat in one single congregation , as in a provinciall , as in a nationall , yea as in the catholick visible body , whereof christ is the head ; onely a provinciall , nationall , and the catholick church visible , extensivè , according to the power of extension , is a larger and a superior church , and though the presbyteriall church be a part of the catholick , it is so a part , as it is a perfit whole church : as a man is a part of this great all , the world , yet so , as he is a perfit reasonable creature , and so a whole man , and a part of the world : but a congregation is so a part of the presbytery , that it hath not a whole , entire , compleat intensive power over its owne members to excommunicate them , because its members are for contiguity and necessity of neere visible communion , parts that cannot avoyd dayly edifying or scandalizing of consociated churches , and therefore the consociated churches trust have a power over the members of a congregation . but our brethren will say ; contiguity of locall cohabitation doth not in be a visible church , but only the voluntary agreement of professors who doe , ex pacto , and by covenant tacit or expresse , make up a conseciation : for a papist and a protestant may cohabit in one house . answ. that is true , but contiguity is such a necessary foundation of externall visible church fellowship in one presbytery , as without that contiguity , i see not how , jure divino , there can be either a congregationall church , or any other church : for , sure i am , christ hath not ordained me to be a member of a congregation in america , or of a presbyteriall church in geneva . and that such persons and no more be members of a congregation , is not juris divini , yet without a contiguity lesse or more they cannot be members of a congregation , nor is this single congregation a limbe of this presbyteriall church , jure divin● ; onely this in abstracto is jus divinum , that there be a congregation of a convenient number , and a presbytery of such as may meete conveniently in their guides . but to returne , the brethren do deny that god gave a power of jurisdiction to the catholick visible court of the o●cumenick church . and why ? because a generall councell cannot excommunicate , nor relax from excommunication a nationall church , but i answer , . it is by accident , and not through want of innate and intrinsecall power , that the court of a catholick councell cannot in an ordinary and constant way , exercise the power that christ hath given to her , as the presbyteriall church doth ; and the exigence of providence maketh it so , because it falleth out by the blessing of god , that zion must say , as it is , esai . . . the place is too streight for me , give place to me that i may dwell . and because she inlargeth the place of her tent , and stretcheth forth the curtains of her habitation , and lengthneth her cords , and breaketh forth on the right hand , and on the left , and her seed inheriteth the gentiles , esai . . . and because from the rising of the sun , to the going d●●ne thereof , his name is great amongst the gentiles , and in every place incense is offered to him , mal. . . yet have generall councells condemned hereticks , as nestorians , macedonians , eutyches and others ; and i see nothing to prove that a generall councell hath no power to excommunicate a nationall church . if the lord should be pleased to give the christian churches a generall councell this day , they might lawfully , in a juridicall way , declare the faction of romish pretended catholicks , to be mysticall babylon , a cage of uncleane birds , which is excommunication in the essence and substance of the act ; nor is there need of a legall and juridicall citation of nationall churches , or a citation of witnesses to prove romish heresies , and perfidious and detestable obstinacy : for their writings , and deeds , are so notorious , that the senses of men may as infallibly prove the fact , as we know there is such a city in the world as rome , and c●n●tantinople ; as for the instance that a catholick councell cannot ordinarily be had , to relax a repenting nationall church : i answer , the same inconvenience will follow , if we suppose an ordinary case , the church congregationall ( as our brethren suppose ) of ierusalem , acts. . consisting of three thousand and a hundred and twenty , having excommunicated ananias , saphira , and others , who yet by the grace of god , should truely repent ; in the meane time , the sword of the roman emperor intervening scattereth this church , that they cannot convene in a spirituall court , to relax them ( and out of court they have no authority of jurisdiction ) here were an invincible necessity of their remaining in satansbonds , in foro externo ecclesiae . but what then ? this is to limit god , as papists do in binding and tying salvation of infants to the outward signe of externall baptisme ; as if god , in soro caeli , in his own court could not absolve penitent sinners , because the church will not , which is more ordinary , through mens corruption , or cannot absolve , through the necessity of exigence of divine providence : and the more catholick that crosses be , as war● , the universall and catholick cruelty , and treachery of the church of m●lignants against the true catholick church of christ , the more easily are the juridicall and court-operations , actions and proceedings of the catholick universall church impedited . and therefore this of our saviours , tell the church , is necessarily to be applyed to all churches and courts of christ , even to a catholick councell , though christ gave instances in an offended brother , who is to tell the church , but i am sure , ( tell the church ) is not to be restricted to a vocal & personall complaining of one brother against another , in the face of a single congregation . for if the offence be committed before the sun at noon-day in the seeing and hearing of the church , either congregationall , or presbyteriall , as some may , and one do by word and writ openly blaspheme god : in this case christs affirmative command , tell the church , doth not in conscience oblige one man to come and deale with the delinquent in private , and then ( if he repent not ) before witnesses , & then to tell the church , so as one sinneth if he tell not the church ; for here gods providence disposing of the notoriousnesse and publicknes of the scandall doth tell the church ; and yet , i hope , our brethren could not deny , but this text doth w●●●● that such a publick offender who scandalizeth many churches should be excommunicated by this place , mat. . from which i gather the weakenes of what is said for the independency of churches from , mat. . ob. . here we cannot understand the church universall . . because he would not say where two or three are gathered in my name , i will be in the midst of them , for two or three cannot represent all the churches comprehended under the catholick visible body of jesus christ. ans. this is an argument from the lesse to the more . if i be present ( would our saviour say ) where two or three , though they be but two or three : i will far rather be present in the assemblies of the church . nor can the words stand according to the letter strictly , according to our brethrens mind , that two should be a church ; for there should be pastors and elders , and christian witnesses , two at least , and the accused brother here . . two or three , and brother and brother are not to be taken as singular men only , but as two or thee men , or churches , who as they may be offended . cor. . so may they give scandall and offence ; so may three , foure , of consociated congregations give the offence , and that publickly ; what ? hath christ provided no remedy against scandals in his whole kingdome , but only for scandals fallen out in the single persons of a small congregation consisting of ten , . or . only when these little congregations offend sister congregations , they are left to the immediate judgement of god ? this is wonderfull . ob. . the christian magistrate as a nursing father is to punish those who offend , and hath power to command churches to confesse offences done to sister churches , and command church censures , as excommunication , to be used , and christs power to be put forth in practise , according to the will of jesus christ. answ. yet doth it follow that the apostolick churches , & the succeeding churches to them under the ten bloudy persecutions , when magistrates were enemies to christ , and his church , that the churches wanted spirituall meanes to gaine fallen and scandalous churches . . christ hath provided an ecclesiasticall power to remove scandalls betwixt church and church ; for the magistrates power is civill and put forth by the sword , and by carnall weapons . christs 〈◊〉 in this , mat. . . s to remove scandalls , and gaine soales v. for heare thee , thou o●st gained thy brothe . the sword of the magistrate is not ordained to gaine so●les to repentance . that 〈◊〉 who careth for the part of a visible church , doth he not far rather care in a spirituall way , for the whole ? . what can the magistrate command here ? the eldership of a congregation turn●● here●icks and scandalous to sister churches and infecteth then . to● magistrate commadeth that church censures be used 〈◊〉 them as you say , who should use them ? not a sister church 〈◊〉 is offended . she hath no power ; not the eldership themselves offending . christ never ordained that a church should excommunicate her selfe ; not the people ; who gave them power ? and the major part of them turneth scandalous . also christ nere hath left n●re ne●y . but let them grow till harvest , so say a●abaptists . ob. . christ here speaketh for a present and constant removing of scand 〈◊〉 brother and brother of one congregation . a cathalick 〈◊〉 of the whole visible church is far off , ●nd cannot be 〈◊〉 . answ. that he speaketh of a present and constant remedy only , and of no remedy against the scandall of whole churches , is de●ed . he speaketh of all remedies to gaine any offenders , persons or churches . ob. . then should an universall councell of the whole world be absolutely necessary , if in some cases we must tell the whole catholickchurch ans. neither doth that follow generall councels are neither necessary to the being , nor to the well-being , but only to the best being of the catholick church , and if the catholick church enjoyed its best-being to which it hath jus , and due right , that is , a perfit reformation in doctrine and discipline , then should generall councell be necessary for the keeping of this best being . and this rule of discipline given by christ supposeth a particular congregation right constituted ( say our brethren ) else this rule cannot be necessarily kept . so say we , that it may necessarily be kept in the catholick church , it supposeth the catholick church to be reformed ; but christs church must sayle with a second wind , when she cannot have a first . ob. . refusing communion with sister churches in case of scand●ll is as effectuall a way for edification , as authoritative excommunication of congregations by presbyteries . answ. excommunication of congregations is a possible , not an ordinary supposition ; but our grounds proceed , when the members of one sister-church offendeth another , if there be no presbyteriall power superi●r to both , that may take order with them , then hath not christ , in the ordinary supposition of ill administration of the eldership of a particular congregation , provided an ecclesiastick way to remove scandalls out of his kingdome . . non-communion is no more then i may do to a brother who offendeth me . . it is not so efficacious as a binding and loosing ratified in heaven . . it hath not that speciall promise of christs church presence walking in the midst of the golden candle-sticks . . it is a secret condemning of the wisdom of christ in the institution of excommunication , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord , cor. . . that some may learne not to blaspheme , tim. . . as if excommunication which is a publick authoritative meane were superfluous , if a private and brotherly non-communion be sufficient , and as efficacious a meane of edification , as christs mean. ob. . either must you complaine to a presbyteriall , provinciall , and nationall church , before you complaine to that congregation of which the ' delinquent is a member , or after that you have complained to that congregation ; if the former be said , then you cannot tell the presbytery , or superior courts , but in case of obstinacy ; for if you can gaine a brother , or a church in a private way , you are not to bring him to a more publickeshame , that is contrary to christs order , v. . if he heare thee , thou hast gained thy brother . and if you tell it the presbytery and the superior courts , after you have told it to the church , whereof he is a member , then you make foure steps , in your reclaiming your brother , where christ hath made but three . ans. christs order according to the number of steps are three , when the fault is private , scandalls of many congregations cannot be private , and in publick scandalls we cannot go but to that church which the offence doth immediatly concerne ; and if you make foure steps or five according to your grounds , i see no transgression ; if . you admonish the offender . . before two . . before the half of the elders . . before all the elders , and. . if you be willing that the elders bring it to the hearing of the congregation the number of three precisely are not of positive divine institution , they are only set downe by christ to shew we are to labour to gaine our brother in private , before we publish his shame to the church ; and if he commit the offence before two , i think you need not tell him your selfe alone , but before two , and yet the offence is private , if three only be privy to it ; seeing it is not yet come to the church . . i much doubt if no faults be punishable by excommunication , but only obstinacy : i thinke the 〈◊〉 of incest , parricide and the like deserveth excommunication , though no contumacy be supervenient to such crimes . ob. . the church spoken of , mat. . is all one with the house of god , and the house of prayer , where two or three agree to pray for onething . v. . and the place where worshiping is , and word and sa●raments , that society in which stewards give a portion of the trea●● of life to every child of the house , mat. . , cor. . . . 〈◊〉 publick rebukes are tendered to these who sin publickly , before all , that others may feare , tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : this must be in the churches hearing and before the congregation meet for the word and sacraments , for these ordinances of god worke for the edifying both of the party reproved and before all the congregation , which shall heare and feare ; and they worke upon the heart , as the word of god doth : now a presbyteriall church convened in some elders of divers congregations , for church censures and exercise of jurisdiction , is not such a house of god , where are the word , sacraments and publick rebukes in the hearing of the congregation ; for the congregations of all the presbytery being . or . cannot meet in one church . answ. that onely a congregation and not the catholick church is the house of god , i judge , the word of god cannot teach ; as esai . . . to them will i give a name within my house . what a name ? to be a member of a single congregation ? no , but of a whole visible church , opposed to the condition of eu●uches and strangers , v. . that were not of the people of god. cant. . the beames of our house are cedars , this is the catholick church and spouse of christ , cant. . i would not let him goe , till i brought him to my mothers house , not a congregation , but ierusalem , ( saith ainsworth ) the mother of us all , cotton , the catholick church ; alstedius , ierusalem , heb. . . as moses was faithfull in all his house . not a single congregation . . this church here is formally a ministeriall church meeting to bind and loose , and excommunicate . nor is there need to expound it of an house of praying congregationally , but rather . . of ligatory and authoritative prayers of the presbytery . . nor is rebuking in a congregation for the edifying of the hearers , any thing but the execution of the judiciall sentence of a presbyteriall church , which we grant may be done in the congregation , whereof the delinquent is a member , and yet the church here shall not signifie a congregation convened for the word and s●crame●ts , except you say , all the people must necessarily be present , yea and authoritative actors to bind and loose , as this church is expresly called , v. . for if the place speake , tim. . . of concionall rebuking ; then it proveth nothing , that is done by timothy as a pastor , virtute potest at is ordinis , and not by the presbytery , as an act of jurisdiction which is done by the church , not by one man , if it be meant of juridicall rebuking that is done in a court , where all the congregation are not present ; or if it be done before the congregation in name of the presbytery , what is done before the church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before many is not done by those many , as if they were the church , which our saviour biddeth us tell , and sure nothing i● here against us . ob. . the word church is never used in the new testament , for the presbytery ; and if it signifie a representative church ; the meaning of this , the angell of the church of pergamus might be the angell of the church of pergamus ; for the representative church is the eldership of that church . answ. this being the first time that christ spake of the church ( which the hebrewes or iewes who knew his language , behoved to understand ) hee could not meane any thing but a representative church , not the common multitude ; and though it were taken other wayes in all scriptures beside , here it must have this meaning ; because he speakth of a court . if he heart not the church &c , of a company who bindeth and looseth on earth . . whose sentence is ●atified in heaven . . binding and loosing are words of highest royall judiciall authority in scripture , psal. . . the king sent and loosed him . . he made him lord over his house , v. . to bind his princes at his pleasure , psal. . . to bind their kings with chaines , and their nobles with fetters of iron . v. . to execute upon them the judgement written , mat. . . take him and bind him ; pauls being in bands , is to be under the judges power , acts . peter was bound with two chaines ; so the captaine of the guard , j●r . . . and now be hold i loose thee this day from thy chaines . . the representative church is not called the elders of the representative church , nor the angell of the representative church , but of the collective church : and therefore there is no angell of a church , of a church here . ob. . from the church here spoken of , their is no appeale , because the sentence is ratified in heaven . . it inflicteth the highest punishment , the censure of excommunication , and a higher judicature can doe no more . . their is no reason to appeale to a higher judicature , because the inferior may erre , because all above a congregation are courts which may erre : for presbyteries , provinciall , nationall , the universall councell of the catholique church may erre . so mr. mather . answ. this is no reason why wee may not appeale from a congregation , because the sentence is ratified in heaven , because the sentence of an inferior judge proceeding rightly is ratified in heaven ; yet we may appeale from him : to appeale is but upon feares of ill administration to desert a lower court , and go to a higher court , so when we feare a counsell and advice given by a sister church to be not according to the word of god , which yet is according to the word of god , upon the supposall of that feare wee decline that counsell , and take another . neither are we to appeale , de jure , from a just sentence in a presbytery . illud possumus quod jure possumus . what the inferior sanedrim of israel did justly , was ratified in heaven : yet by gods law there might be an appeale from it to the highest sanedrim . . nor is this a good reason that we may not appeale from a judicature which may inflict the highest censure ; for inferior judicatures in israel had power of life and death , yet might man appeale from them . . the cause of appeales is not because inferiour judicature● may erre , for so wee might appeale from all judicatures , even from a general councell , for it may erre . but the true cause is . . because rariùs errant , they do not so frequently erre . . they are not so inclined and disposed to erre , for many eyes see more then one , and many eyes doe more seldome miscarry in not taking up the right object then one . . because we conceive more equality and lesse partiality in higher courts . ob. . you grant that a single congregation in an island hath power intrinsecall of excommunication within it selfe ; ergo , th● inconvenient which you put on independent congregations , shall follow in the case of a remote congregation , christ hath not then provided sufficiently for that church in that case . answ. it followeth onely ; ergo , christ hath not provided so sufficiently for that church as for others in a consociation , which is nothing against us . for woe to him that is alone , and two are better then one . ob. . if the church here be a representative church , the● it hath power from those whom they represent , but they represent the people , and so the power is first in the people , and the people must be the first visible church , not the presbytery , not a generall councell . i prove the major , because the power the representer hath that must be first in the represented . answ. a representer standeth for another either objectively or subjectively . what ever representeth another objectively , that is , doth such a businesse for another , or in remejus , for his behalfe and good , though he some way represent that other , yet hath he not his power from that which he representeth ; as the eye objectively in seeing , and the eare in hearing representeth the body , for the eye seeth for the whole body , the eare heareth for the whole body . but the eye hath not its visi●e , or seeing faculty from the body , nor the eare the hearing faculty from the body . now the presbytery doth represent the people onely objectively , that is , for the good and salvation of the people , and so the elders have not all their power of ruling from the people , but from iesus christ. that which representeth another subjectively hath indeed its power from that which it representeth , as he who carrieth the person and roome of a king as an ambassador , doth fetch his power from the king , and that power is more principally in the king. but now the assumption is false , because the eldership doth not represent the people , in their power of jurisdiction , subjectively , as standing in the place of the people , but as the ambassadors of christ , and as stewards they have both the keyes from christ , not from the people , and doe actually use the keyes , in his name and authority , not in the peoples name and authority . hence is easily answered that delegatus seu deputatus non potest facere delegatum ; one delegate cannot transfer his power to another delegate , that would bring a progresse infinite in government ; for one deligate standing in the roome of others , sibjectively cannot transfer his whole power to another , its true ; he cannot transfer his power in part and according to some singular acts , it is false : for acts . . it is said by the councell , it seemed good unto us with one accord , to send chosen men to you , with paul and silar . paul and silas and these chosen men , suppose six or ten are in this embassage , are but the deputies and messengers of the councell , and yet they doe agree to make paul their deputy , and mouth to speake for them all , seeing order requireth that six at once should not speake , in this case paul speaking the minde of all the rest , in this singular act , he is a deputy of deputies , and he representeth the whole six , who were messengers of the church sent with the epistle , and these six were deputies and messengers of the councell , but as these six messengers sent by the councell could not lay their whole power on another to carry the epistle to the church of antioch , and bestow their labours elsewhere , nor could one of these six deligates , being chosen as deligate to speake for the rest , put that power of speaking the mind of the whole six off himselfe to another ; in which sense , one deligate cannot make another , one messenger cannot send another ; so the presbyteriall or classicall court convened as the deligates of the whole congregations under them , or rather deligates for them , then of them , decerning that one of a congregation should be excommunicated , may deligate one in that congregation to pronounce the sentence , and this one pronouncing the sentence as the deligate , and messenger of the church is a deligate & a deputy of deligates , and deputies , in one particular act ; and this our brethren in their own church-sentences pronounced by one elder , must also say . object . . that neerest church to whom we delate the offence of one single offender , is a single congregation , else we must over-leap this church , and tell the presbytery , contrary to christs direction ; but if he heare not that very church to whom we tell the businesse , he is excommunicated by that neerest church , as the words beare ; ergo , that nearest church being single congregations , may excommunicate , and so it is the first church , and the presbyterial church is not the first church . ans. that neerest church to whom we delate the offence of the delinquent ; first , in the case of wilfull obstinacy ; secondly , in the case of consociation of churches ( whom the obstinacy concerneth ) is not a congregationall church , having power of jurisdiction entirely and compleatly , to whom we must tell the offence , which is the subject of excommuncation . the whole ministeriall church is that particular church , together with the presbytery ; and my reason is , there is a church , acts . consisting of one and thirty hundred and twenty , all called one church . now it is said of this church that they continued , vers . . stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and prayer ; but where did they meet ? vers . . not onely in the temple , but dayly from house to house . this whole number hath had v. . one church-fellowship , one word , one supper of the lord ; but in one meeting at once ? no , but they met from house to house , that is , in any private house , as the phrase is here , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and acts . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now it is cleare there were congregations and churches , when word and sacraments were in private houses at jerusalem , and from house to house in ephesus ; but i hope these were but parts of the church at ierusalem and ephesus , and that they could not meet all in one house . if one therefore complaine of a scandalous person to the church of ephesus convened in a house , possibly in an upper chamber , or elsewhere , this is a meeting that continueth in prayer and breaking of bread , and so hath power of church-censures to admonish and rebuke , which things belong to that single congregation or church in a private house ; but it hath not power to censure those that offend the consociated congregations that meet also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in houses , that is , to excommunicate ; and therefore he must complaine to the elders of ephesus , ●o● we are not to thinke that the false jewes who were censured by the apostles of ephesus , rev●● . . . did onely infest houses , or one congregation meet in a house , or that one house-church , or house-congregation of ephesus , did try and censure those that called themselves iewes , revel . , but christ giveth the praise of this to the whole church of ephesus , who had the power of censures . but it may be said , ascandalous person may infect two congregations of two neighbouring presbyteries , he dwelling neere the borders of both : ergo , if he be to be excommunicated , not by a congregation onely , but by the presbytery , because ●e may leaven many consociated churches ; this man is not to be excommunicated , except you tell two presbyteriall churches , and so a whole province ; and if he dwell in the borders of two nations , betwixt england & scotland , he may leaven two parts of two nationall churches ; and if the matter concerneth both the nationall churches , a higher church then a presbytery , to wit a church made up of two presbyteries , yea , of parts of two presbyteries of two nations , must by divine institution be that church compleat and entire to which we must complaine , and which hath the power of excommunication . answ. it is certaine , as the locall limits of a congregation and the number is not properly of divine institution , onely a convenient number there must be to make up a congregation ; and suppose a man do dwell in the borders of two congregations , where he is equally distant from the place of meeting of these two congregations , it is not of divine institution whether he be a member of the one or the other ; yet where his parents did willingly associate themselves to such a congregation , or he himselfe did associate himselfe , and where he received baptisme , he hath now a relation to that church as a member thereof , and that pastor is his pastor , not any other , as the elders of the church of ephesus ( suppose it were one single congregation ) and the angell of ephesus is not the angell of thyatira ; the angell of pergamus is not to be called the angell of sard●s . so i● the matter in a presbytery , or two presbyteries of two distinct nations ( i meane now a classicall presbytery ) therefore these doe make presbyteries , . a convenient number of churches may be governed by one colledge , or society of elders . . having ordinary conversing one with another . . voluntarily upon these two grounds combining themselves in one society ; and upon these three the supervenient institution of christ is grounded . and therefore though it be true , that one dwelling in the borders of two congregations , of two classicall presbyteries of two nations , may equally infect other , and so ex natura rei , and in reality of truth he may leaven both ; yet the god of order having made him a combined member now by institution of one presbyteriall church , not of the other , he is to be excommunicated by the one , not by the other : for though locall distinction of congregations and presbyteries bee not of divine institution ; yet supposing consideration be had to , first , a competent number which may be edified ; secondly , to ordinary conversing ; thirdly , to voluntary combination , either formall , as at the first molding of congregations and presbyteries , or tacit and vertuall combination , as in after tracts of time . gods institution maketh a relation of a particular membership of this man , so to this congregation or presbyterie ; as that now upon their foresaid suppositions , though he may leaven the neighbouring presbyteries or congregations , no lesse then those whereof he is a member , yet may he be censured by those and none others now , in respect of christs ordinance applied to this presbyteriall church in this place , and in this nation , and not in this . object . . if the congregation may admonish and rebuke , then may they excommunicate , for you may not distinguish where the law of god distinguisheth not : for there is no reason why this or this exercise of jurisdiction should be given them , and not the exercise of all . answ. the law clearly differenceth , matth. . i may rebuke and convince my brother with the consent of three witnesses , which is some degree of church-censure , especially if a pastor rebuke before three , yet may not a pastor excommunicate ; the church doth that . . we acknowledge that a congregation may exercise all jurisdiction in re propria ; but excommunication , where churches are consociated , is not a thing that is proper to a congregation , but concerneth many . obj. . we doe not thinke that the church , math. . . is the community its alone , nor the elders there alone ; but the elders in presence of the community . for even act. . when the apostles and elders did give out decrees , they did it before the church of ierusalem , and in their presence , v. . then pleased it the apostles , elders , and whole church , to send chosen men to antioch . for shew us a warrant in the word , where the elders there alone did exercise jurisdiction , the people not being convened , and where such a company of elders there alone is called a church . the iudges in israel judged in the gates before the people ; the elders judged in , or , before the church , as the eye seeth united to the head , not separated from it . answ. nor doe we exclude these from hearing the elders exercise jurisdiction , if the matter concerne them ; but we aske if the whole people of israel were obliged by vertue of divine institution to be present in the gates of the city when the judges did sit there , and judge , as our brethren therein say ; by a divine institution the people are to be present , and to consent ; yea and have an honour above consenting , ( say they ) so as , if the people be not there to have their share of excommunication in their way , then is christs order violated , because the church cannot be said to excommunicate and bind and loose on earth ; whereas the elders onely , without the people , do only bind and loose , and excommunicate ; and the elders ( say they ) without the people are not the church , nor can be called the church , and so the acts of the elders , judging , and separated from the people are null , because not acts of the church ; seeing the alone elders are not the church ; & by this reason the judges could not judge in israel , except all israel had been present to consent , for all israel are bidden to execute judgement in the morning , both the rulers and people . . all the thousands in ierusalem which made up many congregations , were not , nor could they , and the whole congreations of a●tioch , syria , and silicia , who were all concerned in conscience no lesse then ierusalem , be present , and that by obligation of a divine institution : and therefore that church , and that whole church , act. . . can be no other then the whole representative church . and so we say , both here and act. . the church representative exerciseth jurisdiction without the people ; if people were present , it was by vertue of no divine institution : so as if they had not beene present the decrees could not have been called the decrees of the church : and certainely the comparison of the eye which seeth not but as united to the body , if it be strictly urged , may well prove that the elders , if the people be not present , even all and every one whom it concerneth , c●● no more exercise jurisdiction , or decerne that a scandalous person can be excommunicated , then an eye can see when it is plucked out of the head . object . . divines bring an argument from math. . by ●●●logy and proportion from particular congregations , to prove na●i●nall and generall synods of the whole christian world . ergo , they suppose that a particular church is the measure and patterne , and first church which hath power of excommunication , answ. parker , and some few enclining to our brethrens mind doe so , but divines understand by a church a presbyteriall church , which they make the measure and patterne of assemblies . object . here is a particular church , because here is an offended brother who is a member thereof . this particular church hath elders , this particular church is a whole church , cor. . if the whole church come together . jam. . send for the elders of the church . it cannot be , that the sick● person is to send for the elders of a presbyteriall church that are so farre removed from the sicke man. answ. an hand with five fingers is a whole hand , but not a whole body ; a congregation is a whole church in its owne kind , whole for those things that concerne it selfe , but not whole and compleat for all jurisdiction . if iames should bid , send for all the elders , this consequence should have some colour . object . . a presbyteriall church can be an offending church , but this , math. . is for an offending brother , if thy brother sinne against thee , &c. answ. christ giveth an instance onely in an offending brother , but the doctrine is for the curing of an offending church also , for all persons to be gained , thou hast gained thy brother . we are to gaine churches even as we are not to offend churches , cor. . . object . ▪ there are no church-censures meant here , christs scope is to resolve a case of conscience , how farre we are to goe on with an offending brother before we behave our selves to him as to an heather . ● , it is said , if thy brother sinne against thee , ergo , it is a private offence , not a publique church-scandall , that deserveth excommunication . answ. christs purpose is to shew how we may gaine to repentance an offending brother , thou hast gained thy brother . and he will have us use both publique and private meanes to gaine him . . it is such a sinne as must be told to the church , when obstinacy to the church is added , and therefore at length it is a publique scandall and so deserveth excommunication . ob. . reprove him , that is , convince him , but is it not reproving to be brought before the church ? must i reprove every one who offendeth me , even the king ? it is a mans glory to passe by an offence ; and salomon for biddeth us to over-heare our servant cursing us . answ. god hath made every man his brothers keeper , and we are not to suffer sin in our brother , but in any case to rebuke him , lev. , . the king is not every mans brother whom he is to use familiarly , as the brother meant of here ; though kings should be rebuked by their nobles , and by pastors . . we are to passe over offences , that is , to forgive those that sin against us , and not to be too curious to know who reproacheth us , as salomons meaning is to be taken , and to be willing to forgive , and yet to labour to gaine our brother by rebukes ; one act of love fighteth not with another . ob. . tell the church , is not meant of a christian church , but he speaketh of a thing present , but there was no christian church as yet . answ. it followeth not , it is a rule especially for time to come , though christ speake after this manner , as if it were a thing present . ob. . it is not much that the word , church , signifieth onely in this place a company of godly men , witnesses of the mans offence ; for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth onely once , joh. . the wind . . christ spake in the syriak and gnedah , psal. . gnedah a company , or many buls have comp●ss●d m● , san. . a company of prophets , gnedah . the meaning is , if he be not convinced by the testimony of two , rebuke him before many . answ. it is not like , that seeing in the chapter preceding he s●ake of the church , as of a company to whom the keys of the kingdome of heaven were given , and that here he speaking of a church which hath authoritative power to bind and loose , that christ hath any such ●nsolent meaning of the word church , as onely to note many christians . . the syriak is not the originall , but the greeke . ob. . the witnesses sp●ken of here are not witnesses of the offences , but of the reproofe , and therefore there is nothing here of a judiciall proc●s . answ. yea , but these witnesses are witnesses both of the reproote , and of that obstinacy , for the which the mans sinnes are bound in heaven . ob. . let him be to thee as an heathen . he saith not , let him be to the c●urt as an heathen , and therefore here is no shadow of any court. ans. it is an ordinary hebraisme , when the second person is put for the third , especially in laws , as , thou shalt not send him away empty . also , thine eye shall not spare him . also , then shalt out away evill out of israel . and therefore here is a reall court , it the context be considered . christ speaketh so , let him be to thee as an heathen ; in opposition to that which he was called to be , for his obstinacy ; to wit , a brother , if thy brother offend . and how weake is this ? let him be to thee as an heathen . ergo , he should not be to the church as an heathen . the contrary consequence is most necessary , if he be to thee as an heathen , because he is now convinced of obstinacy before two brethren , and before all the church . ergo , these two brethren and the whole church are to count him as an heathen , for the offended brother hath gone along all the way in the unanimous judgement , and a consort of mind , with both the witnesses and the church ; ergo , this obstinate man is the same to the church that he is to the offended brother , that is , he is to both as an heathen and a publican , and both are to abstaine from eating or brotherly conve si●g with him , as the jewes would not familiarly converse with the heathen , and as paul commandeth cor. . , . that with an excommunicated man , we are not to eate . ob. . whatsoever you bind on earth , is in good sence , that he who offendeth any little one that believeth , his sinne is bound in heaven , as the friends of job c. . were not accepted of god , till they made their peace first with iob , yet iob had no power of the keyes over his friends , and an offering is not accepted , while first the offerer be reconciled to his broth●r , and so his sinnes are bound in heaven , and yet one brother hath not a jurisdiction over another . answ. binding and loosing in this , chap. . must be the same with binding and loosing , chap. . . but expresly their binding and loosing is by the church . power of the keyes , and is all one with that authoritative power of remitting and retaining sins 〈◊〉 . . , . and in scripture the keyes , and binding , and loosing , are never ascribed but to stewards , officers , princes , and judges , who have power of jurisdiction , as i have proved already ; and therefore that which is spoken of jobs friends , and of the offerer not reconciled to his brother , come not up to the point , for iobs friends doe not binde on earth , and the offended brother is a more private man destitute of the keyes , and of all power of j●risdiction . it is first objected by our reverend brethren , the extent of the power of jurisdiction in the elders of a classicall presbytery must be proved by gods word , which cannot be . for if many classicall elders have power over many congregations , possibly twenty or thirty churches , then they beare the relation of elders to these thirty congregations , and they must all be elders of these churches , as the scripture saith , the elders of ephesus , the angel of the church of pergamus , the angel of the church of thyatira ; now this cannot be : for then , first , deacons must be deacons of many congregations , and deacons might meet in one colledge to dispose of the treasury of these thirty , and yet these thirty churches should not be consulted with , nor could they all convene in one to give their consent and judgement concerning their treasury . now though deacons be inferiour to pastors , yet are they no l●sse officers in their owne sphere , having power , then the pastors ; and paul writing to the church of philippi , writeth to the deacons as to the bishops , insi●uating that deacons are deacons in relation to that church , no lesse then pastors . answ. i deny the proposition , to wit , if many elders be one presbytery ruling many congregations , then doe they beare the relation of elders to these many congregations , as proper pastors to every congregation , of , or within that presbyteriall church : nor doe they beare that relation of watchmen and proper pastors to every one of these congregations , that a pastor of a particular congregation beareth to his particular flock , that is to be ●oved . it is true they are called the elders of the presbyteriall church of ephesus , the colledge of the angells of the church of pergamus ; but this is a generall and different relation from that which each pastor , doth carry to his owne flock in those respects . . the presbytery are elders to the classicall church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●● ; not in things proper to each congregation but in things common to all , or in that which is the proper object of government , to wit , those things which rather concerne the consociation , and combination of those thirty churches then the thirty consociated , and combined churches in particular . . the presbytery doth rather take care of the reg●lation of the acts of governing in all these churches , then the governed churches : for they are to heed to the pastors ordained , and to lay h●nds suddenly on no man , to commit the word to faithfull m●n , to see that pastors preach sound doctrine , and exercise discipline according to the rule , but they doe not feede as speciall pastors the particular flocks , but every one is to feede his owne flock over the which the holy ghost hath set him , acts , . the elders of the classicall presbytery are elders to all these churches , as the elders themselves are , in collegio presbyteriali , in the colledge of presbyters and properly as they are in the court , but not separatim , and oct of court , so this and this archippus is not an elder , or pastor to all these congregations , so as he hath to answer to god and to watch for the soules of them all , but hee hath a charge of them onely in collegio ; and if he doe any thing , as a classicall elder , as if hee lay hands on a pastor ordained to bee the pastor of such a congregation , hee doth it as the hand and instrument and deligate of the presbytery , or if hee pronounce the sentence of excommunication in a congregation , hee is virtualitèr in collegio , when he doth that act , in respect he doth it as the deligate of the presbytery . and this our brethren may see in their owne particular eldership of their independent flock , if an elder occasionally rebuke any of the flock , never convened before the church , he doth not in that exercise an act of church jurisdiction , because he is not now in a court , and when hee is not in the court hee cannot excommun●cate , yet ●iting in court hee doth , in collegio , with the rest of the eldership exercise church jurisdiction . and separatim , and not joyned in the court they cannot exercise church jurisdiction . . the presbytery hath a church-relation to all these . churches not taken distributively , but collectively as all those are united in one church classicall under one externall and visible government , even as the elders of an independent church are not elders of their single congregation , being separated from their court , and extra coll●gium presbyteriale , in the notion of the relation of a church-jurisdiction , for they are elders by reason of church jurisdiction only in their court. . classicall elders in the court have power of jurisdiction in relation to this presbyteriall , or classiciall church , but they have not properly an ordinary power of order to preach to them all and every one , and to administrate the sacraments to them . the elders of a particular congregation , have power of order and power of jurisdiction without the court , but they have not power of church jurisdiction , but in the court ; for there is a difference betwixt a power of jurisdiction which elders have as watchmen , and a power of church-jurisdiction which elders have not but in foro ecclesiae , in the court of church-jurisdiction . so the great sanedrim beare rule over all the tribes of israel . but this judge of the tribe of dan a member of the sanedrim is not a judge of the tribe of benjamin , or a judge to a thousand of that tribe , as the captaine of that thousand . . i distinguish the proposition , if the elders of the presbytery be elders of the presbyteriall church , then are they elders in relation to the many congregations in that church , if they bee elders in these common affaires which concerne government in generall , then are they elders in feeding , by the word of knowledge , and in governing in all the particulars which concerne the government of each congregation . that i deny , for their oversight in governing in things belonging to all the consociated churches , doth not make them elders of all those particular congregations . . deacons in some cases are also deacons in relation to all the particular churches in some reserved cases : if all the deacons of macedonia , corinth and other churches , should meete in one and take course for supplying the distressed saines at jerusalem , what inconvenient were in this ? ob. . if presbyteriall elders be elders to mary congregations in a generall relation , what sort of elders are they ? are they elders ruling , or are they elders teaching ? it is unpossible that they can be elders teaching , to so many congregations ; for teaching is a personall and incommunicable act , that m●n cannot commit to any others , they must performe it in their owne persons , a●● cannot commit it to others , if they be ruling elders onely , and not teaching elders , this is against the scripture ; for the exten : of teaching and the extent of ruling are commexsurable in the word , and of alike extersion , acts . . these same whoe are to feede the fl●ck at eph●sue , are to governe and rul● , and they are to feede the whole fl●ck● , not a part of it ; so the text sayth , take heede to the whole fl●cke , then they are not to governe all in a presbytery , and to feede with teaching the word , one particular congregation onely ; so pe● . . . feed the flock of god which is amongst you , not with knowledge onely , but be addeth their duty of governing : taking the oversight thereof , not by constraint , but willingly , &c. so h●b . . . remember them that have the rule over you , who have spoken unto you the word of god ; ergo , these same who have the rule over the flock , and governe , du also speake the word of the lord and teach , v. . obey them that have the rule over you and submit to them , for they watch for your soules as these who must give accompt ; ergo , these same who governe , doe also as pastors watch for the flock , as those that are to give an accompt ; but the governing classicall presbytery doe rule , but it is unpossible that they can give an accompt for all the congregations of a classicall presbytery , for they cannot watch over them all , except every one of these must have many eyes : nor can they be both ruling and teaching officers , for then they should have two offices , if one man be both a physitian and a chyrurgion to two severall companies , he must have two offices in relation to two charges which he hath to those two companies , if he practise physick to the one company , and chyrurgery to the other , this is against the order that paul col. . rejoyced to behold . therefore the classicall elders cannot be rulers having the oversight of the whole c●●ssicall church , and yet every one of them must be a 〈◊〉 and teaching pastor only to the single congregation over which 〈◊〉 . answ. as grand-fathers and fathers doe beare a relation to these same children divers wayes , both are fathers and may tutor and provide for the children , but both are not begetting ●athers , so also doe the classicall elders and the elders of particular congregations , beare divers relations to the flocks . the question then is what sort of elders are the presbyteriall elders to the presbyteriall church ? i distinguish church , i distinguish elders . they are elders classicall only to the classicall church collectively taken , and they have an authoritative care over this church . but they are proper elders to the classicall church taken distributively , that is , this man is an elder to this part , or member of the presbytery , to wit , to this congregation . and another man to this congregation as the elders ; in the court and aslembly at jerusalem , acts . they are elders in relation to the whole churches of antioch , syria , and silicia , and the gentiles collectively taken in those dogmaticall poynts , with the confession of our brethren , and these same elders were in speciall manner elders to the congregations of antioch , syria and silicia , and other churches taken distributively ; so also the elders of many consociated , and neighbouring churches are speciall watchmen over their own fl●cks , by teaching and ruling , according to our brethrens grounds , and also they have a brotherly care over all the consociated church , to councell , ●dmonrth , comfort ; seeing every man is his brothers keeper , by a divine law , and the care is like as is it were authoritative , onely , by our brethrens way , it wanteth the relation of authority ; vet doth it not follow that elders this way have two offices . but onely that they performe two acts of one and the same office ; also a pastor of an independent flocke , who writcth ● b●●ke for the instruction of sister-churches as hee preache●● those same sermons that are in the printed b●oke to his owne people and flocke , hath two relations , one to his owne flocke whom hee preacheth unto . as a pastor , another as an instructer of other churches by his writings , yet for that hee hath not two offices , as one who is a ' physitian and a chyrurgion to two sundry companies . if any say , hee writteth not bookes as a pastor , by vertue of his office , but as a gifted man by power of fraternity , let mee deny the truth of the distinction , for this is to begge what is in question ; for to teach the churches by writing should proceede from the authoritative power of a pastor , as a pastor ; and by that same officiall power that hee teacheth his owne flocke vivâ voce , by vocall preaching , as a doctor hee teacheth other churches by writing . but it was asked , whether are the classicall elders ruling elders , or teaching elders to the classicall church ? answ. they are both , and they are neither , in divers considerations , they bee teaching elders in all the congregations , distributively taken , they are rulers in all collectively taken , they are teachers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in some reserved acts , resolving synodically some cases of conscience and dogmaticall poynts upon occasion , but they be not the constant teachers to watch for the soules of all . . the places , acts . . pet. . . heb. . . prove that those that rule in common many churches should be teachers of these same churches distributively , and all the eldership at ephesus should rule the whole churches amongst them . and there should no pastor be a sole ruler and not a teacher , as the prelate is ; nor is there a pastor who is a sole teacher , and it is very true hee who is a ruling pastor is also a teaching pastor , but not to that same flock alwayes . neither is this true , that because power of jurisdiction is founded upon power of order , therefore teaching should be every way commensurable with ruling ; for . the eldership convened in court , and onely formalitèr in foro ecclesiae , in this court hath church-power of jurisdiction , in a congregation , and in this court they governe , but the eldership in this court neither doth preach , nor can preach . . the power of ruling is in the ruling elder , but not the power of teaching , and the power of teaching publickly is in the un●fficed prophet , as our brethren teach , and yet in him there is no power of ruling . ob. . it is strange that to excommunicate agreeth to the ruleing elder in a classicall presbytery , which he may doe in many congregations , and so he may performe his principall acts over thirty or forty congregations ; and yet the pastor may not performe his principall act of teaching in many congregations , by vertue of his office , but onely in one congregation , by this frame of a classicall church . answ. the ruling elder doth onely in some common cases with the presbytery performe his speciall acts , but all the ordinary acts of the spirituall jurisdiction the ruling elder performeth in that congregation whereof he is an elder , nor is this an inconvenient ; but preaching which is given to unofficed men by our brethren , should not be called the principall part of a pastors charge . ob. . it is unreasonable that a prelate or a pope should rule me , and not teach me , and we condemned this in prelates that they would onely rule , and not teach : but the classicall presbytery doth fall in that same fault , for they governe the whole classicall church , but they doe not teach the whole classicall church ; it is dreadfull for a man to watch for the soules of one single congregation , as being under necessity to give an accempt ; ergo , far more dreadfull it is to watch also for a whole tract of thirty or forty churches , the apostle will have him who watcheth for one flock to entangle himselfe with no other imployments . how then shall hee take the burden of thirty , or forty flockes ? answ. it is unreasonable that prelate and pope should rule me , and so many hundred churches . as the sole and proper pastors , and all under them be but suffragans and deputed pastors , doing by borrowed authority from pope and prelate . . that their sole office should be to command feeders as pastors of pastors , and not to feede with knowledge the flocke , that is most true ; but the classicall presbyters are neither principall nor proper pastors of the whole classicall churches collectively , nor are two or three pastors under them as deputies . . nor is their office to rule onely , not to feede with knowledge also . . the pastors of independent flocks are obliged by brotherly association , to be vine-keepers , governours , fellow-counsellers to forty sister - churches , for they acknowledge that churches cannot subsist in good government without the helpe of synods ; now if wee distinguish onerousn●sse , care , and labour of b●therly watching over one another , and oner●u●n●sse , care , and labour , by way of jurisdiction , the former is as great in foro dei , in the court of conscience as the latter , and so ou● brethren make governing without teaching , as well as wee doe ; they in a brotherly way , wee in a way of jurisdiction . i prove that their way is as dreadfull and labo●ous in the ●oynt of conscience , and in a way of giving accompt to god , as our way . for . a divine command that wee be our brethrens keepers , and we watch over one another commandeth onerousnesse , and care in brotherly governing to them , as to us . . wee make the ground and foundation of governing a classicall church that band of love and union of the members of one body of christ , and this band of lovely and brotherly consociation of many congregations commandeth , and ti●th us to doe no more in governing and i● helping , and promoting the edification of sister - churches , then if wee had no further warrant to prom●te edification , then the alone relation of brotherly consociation , for the onely and very reason why the wisdome of our law-giver christ hath put a speciall commandement on consociated churches to make one presbytery , and to governe one classicall church , in these common poynts that concerne the whole classicall church , in the poynt of sound doctrine and lawfull and ministeriall jurisdiction , is the necessity that members of one body have of broth●rly helpe , light , direction , comfort one of another . which poynt i desire carefully to bee observed : for wee see no ground to make the powers of a congregation , of a presbytery , of a province . of a nationall church , powers formally and essentially different , they differ onely in more or lesse extension , as the adjunct or genuine property of one and the same great visible body , which is one integrall part ; that same . . covenant of god. . that same lord . that same spirit . . that same faith and baptisme . . that same power of the keyes in nature and essence belongeth to all ; onely the power must bee more or lesse , as the body is more or lesse , as there is more of that vis loc●motiva , the power of moving in the hand then i● one finger , and in the whole arme then in the hand onely , and in the whole body then in the hand . and i cleare it in this , a man is a gifted preacher in a congregation in an island , there is none other gifted of god to preach the gospell but hee onely . i would thinke , as a brother hee were under as great an obligation of care , and laborious onerousnesse of conscience to bestow his talent for the gaining of soules by preaching , though hee were not called to bee their pastor , and that by vertue of his brotherly relation to the people , as if hee were called to bee their pastor . i desire to know what the naked relation of authority , or jurisdiction addeth to his care and onerousnesse in poynt of labouring by preaching the gospell . indeed now being called , his care is pastorall and more authoritative . but if according to the measure of the talent , every one is to proportion his paines to gaine more talents to his lord , and if the relation of a pastor adde no degrees of gifts to his talent , as wee may suppose , i thinke his onerousnesse in labouring was as great before hee was a pastor as after : but i speake not this , to say that in a constituted church there is no calling required other then giftes . nor doe i speake this to say , that a calling is not a new motive why a man should imploy his gifts for the honour of the giver ; but only to shew that christ hath united powers of jurisdiction in congregations , in presbyteries , in churches of provinces and nations ; that so , not onely gifts might conduce to helpe and promove edification , but also united powers of jurisdiction which are also gifts of god , and though some may say that a calling to an office layeth on m●n a more speciall obligation , to make accompt for soules , then gifts onely ( which in some sense , i could also yeeld ) yet seeing wee thinke the relation of the eldership to a whole classicall church is not founded upon an office different from the offices of pastors and elders which they have , and are clothed with in relation to their particular congregations , but onely authoritative acts of the same office , and that for the common promoving of edification in the whole classicall church , grounded in the depth of his wisdome who hath seven eyes , upon a brotherly consociation , in which they must either edifie one another , and occasionally partake of these same holy things , or then scandaliz● and leaven one another , with their publique transgressions ; wee cannot see how presbyteriall elders are more to give accompt for the soules of the whole classicall church in scriptures sense , hebrewes . . then consociated pastors and elders of consociated churches are to give an accompt to god for sister churches , over which they are to watch , and whose soules they are to keepe , and so farre as they are brethren must make a reckoning to god for them . and how can the presbytery be more said to intangle themselves , in governing the classicall church in some things , with things not proper to their calling , seeing consociated churches , in a brotherly way , doe medle with those same things , though not in a way of jurisdiction ? for helping the classicall church by way of fraternity is not unproper to a christian calling of brethren , and the joyning of power of jurisdiction ; i meane of power lesser to another power greater , to helpe the classicall church , upon the same ground of fraternity , cannot bee unproper to the calling of a colledge of presbyters . objecti . . the power of presbyteries taketh away the power of a congregation , therefore it cannot bee lawfull . the antecedent is thus confirmed . . because if the presbytery ordain● one to bee excommunicated , whom the elders of a congregation in conscience thinke ought not to bee excommunicated , the man , jure divino , must be excommunicated , and the power of the congregation , which christ hath given to them is nul . and the exercise thereof impeded by a greater power . . the voyces of two elders of a congregation , which are now sitting in the greater and classicall presbytery , are swallowed up by the greater number of elders , of thirty or forty congregations met in one great presbytery ; ergo , the power of the congregation is not helped by the presbytery , but close taken away . answ. the argument doth presuppose that which is against gods law , to wit. . that there is a contradiction of voyces , betwixt the elders of a cong egation , and of the greater presbytery ; which should not bee , for brethren even of galathia , which contained many congregations , as our brethren confesse , should all minde and speake , and agree in one thing that belongeth to church discipline , as is cleare , gala. . . gala. . v. . gala. . . . . the argument supposeth that the greater presbytery is wrong in their voycing , that such a man should be excommunicated , and the two elders of the congregationall church is right , and hath the best part in judging that the same man ought not to be excommunicated . but christ hath given no power to any church to erre , and that power which in this case the presbytery exerciseth is not of christ ; and de jure , the power of the greater presbytery in this case ought to bee swallowed up of the two voyces of the elders of the congregation . but suppose that the elders of one congregation , and the whole meeting all agree in the truth of god , as they all doe acts . will you say that peter , paul , and iames their power is null , and taken from them ; and their three voyces are swallowed up in that great convention , because to their power and voyces are added , in this dogmaticall determination ( which you grant even now to many consociated churches ) the power and voyces of the rest of the apostles and elders ; yea and as some say , of the whole church . acts . , v. . . acts . . acts . . ? i believe addition of lawfull power doth not annull lawfull power , but corroborate and strengthen it . so this shall fall upon your owne eldership of your independent congregation . suppose ●en pastors , elders and doctors in one of your congregations , whereas sometime there were but three , and these three had the sole power of jurisdiction and exercise of the keyes , you cannot say that the accession of six elders to three , hath made null the power of three , and swallowed up their voyces ; for if their power and voyces were against the truth , it is fit they should be swallowed up : if they were for christ , they are strengthened , by the accession of lawfull power and moe voyces , and neither annulled nor swallowed up . object . . the church at the first , for example , when it was but a hundreth and twenty , had the full entire power within it selfe : ergo , it should bee in a worse case by the multiplication of churches , if now that power bee given to presbyteries . ans. it is a conjecture , that the whole christian church acts . was onely an hundreth and twenty . i thinke there were more , though these onely convened at the ordination of matthias , for there were above five hundred brethren at once which saw christ after his resurrection , cor. . . and these , i judge , belonged to the christian church also . . it is constantly denied that addition of lawfull power to lawfull power doth arnull , or put in a worse condition the prexistent power ; it doth helpe it , but not make it worse : and twenty churches adding their good and christian counsells , and comforts to two churches doe not annull , or hurt or swallow up either the power of good counseling in these two churches or their good counsels , but do much confirme , and strengthen them . object . . it is absurd that there should be a church in a church , and two distinct kind of churches , or a power above a power , a jurisdiction above a jurisdiction , a state above a state , as master and servant , and father and sonne , so there is here a governing and a commanding classicall presbytery , and a governed and commanded classicall church , and in a politicall consideration formally different : now where there bee two different states , there be two different names , titles , and adiuncts , as cor. . . god hath set some in the church , first apostles , secondarily prophets . so it is said , genesis . god made two distinct lights , a greater light to serve the day , and a lesser light to rule the night . but the scripture maketh no mention of greater or lesser presbyteries , wee have the name of presbytery but twice in the new testament , and in matter they differ not , for these same elders are the matter of both : in form they differ not , for the same combination and union is in all : they differ not in operations , for the superior hath no operations but such as the inferior can exercise , for because a pastor exhort●th a pastor comsorteth , we doe not make two kindes of pastors , if wee cannot finde a distinction betwixt presbyter and presbyter , how can w●e 〈◊〉 a distinction betwixt presbytery and presbytery ? hath the wisdome of christ left these thrones in such a confusion , as by scripture they cannot be knowen , by name , title , nature , operations ? and if there be a power above a power , wee have to a●end to a nation and so to subdite a whole nation , and their consciences to this government , and we are to put a kingdome within a kingdom . answ. a church-congregationall within a church-classicall is no more inconventent , then a part in the whole , an hand in the body , and that is a lesser body in a greater , and our brethren call the people a church , and the elders the elders of the church , and what is this but a church in a church ? . a power above a power , is not absurd , ex●ept it be a church-power , so above a church-power , as the superior power be privative and destructive to the inferior , as the popes power distroyeth the power of the chu●ch universall , and the prelates power destroyeth the power of the 〈◊〉 where of he is pretended pastor . but the power of the presbytery is a●xiliarte , and cumulative to helpe the congregation , not privative and destructive to destroy the power of congregations . secondly , a power above a power in the church cannot be denied by our brethren : for . in the eldership of a ●●●gle congregation , the eldership in the court hath a power of jurisdiction above a power of order , which one single minister hath , to preach the word and administrate the sacraments ; for they may regulate the pastor and censure him , if he preach hereticall doctrine : is not this a power above a power ? yea two elders in the court have a power of jurisdiction to governe with the whole prebsytery , but the power of the whole presbytery is above the power of a part . but to com● neerer ; the apostles and elders at ierusalem met in a synod have a power , in dogmaticall poynts over the church at antioch , and others : and our brethren say that the church at antioch might have in their inferiour synod determined these same poynts which the synod determined at ierusalem ; her 's power above power . thirdly , we doe not see how they be two , or divers indicatures formally and specisically different in nature and operations , for they differ onely in more or lesse extension of power , as the reasons doe prove , as the power of government in one city or borough , doth not differ formally from the power of the whole cities and boroughs , incorporated and combined in one common judicature , and the power of two or three , or foure colledges , doth not differ from the power of the whole combination of colledges combined in the comm on judicature of the universities : so here the powers of the inferior judicatures do differ from the superior onely in degree , and in number of members of the judicatures ; the policy divine is one and the same , though the superior can exercise acts of jurisdiction different from the acts of the inferior in an ordinary way ; such as are ordination of pastors and excommunication , where many churches are consociated ; though , where this consociation is not , ordination and excommunication may be done by one single congregation : also to argue from the not distinction of names , titles and adjuncts of the iudicatures is but a weake argument , because congregationall , and presbyterian , provinciall and a nationall church-body make all one body , and the inferior is but a part and member of the superior , and thefore it was not needfull that as apostles and prophets , and the sun the greater light by name and office is distinguished from the moone gen. . the lesser light , that congregation and presbyter should be distinguished by names and office and titles in the scripture ; for a prophet is not formally a part of an apostle , but an officer formally different from him , and the moone is not a part of the sun , as a congregation is a part of the classicall church : so mat. . the scripture distinguisheth not the people and elders in the word ( ecclesia ) church , as our brethren will have then both meant in that place , mat. . teil the church . now we say as they doe to us in the like , we are not to distinguish where the law doth not distinguish . but the scripture sayth , mat. . the church that the offended hath recourse unto , is that church which must be obeyed as a judicature and spirituall court , but the people is neither a judicature , nor any part thereof . and . of that church christ doth speake that doth actually bind on earth and loose on earth , and that by the power of the keyes , but the people neither as a part of the court doth actually bind and loose on earth by power of the keyes . . christ speaketh of that court , and of that church which doth exercise church-power on earth , under the title of binding and loosing ; but we find not a church in the face and presence of the people binding and loosing under the name of the church , in the word of god. shall we use such an insolent signification of the word church , as the word of god doth not use ? and lastly , i say of these of corinth gathered together convened together in the name of the lord jesus , with the ministeriall spirit of paul and with the power of the lord iesus ; these cannot be the church excommunicating before the people . the text destinguisheth not the court of elders who hath the power of jurisdiction from the people , and all these to whom he writeth , and who were puffed up and mourned not for the scandall , have no such power of jurisdiction : nor can the text beare that the elders set up a court before the eyes of all the people , and delivered such a man to satan , so as this is called the head of elders and people , as our brethren teach , and here they distinguish where the scripture distinguisheth not . fourthly , if the scripture give to us thrones really different , though names and titles cannot be found , more then we find expresly and in words ; two sacraments , three persons and one god , christ iesus in two natures , and one person , then have we what we seeke : but wee have these different in the things themselves , as acts . . wee have a church meeting in an house , for word and sacraments , as acts . . and a congregation in corinth meeting in an house , cor. . . cor. . . and consequently here must bee some power in this meeting to order the worship of god : this single meeting is to rebuke those that sinne openly , and to hinder women to preach in the congregation ; and to forbid , by the power of the keys , that two speake at once ; because god is the god of order ; to borbid doctrine that edifieth not , and speaking gods word in an unknowen tongue , &c. . there is an eldership 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in every city in ephesus , in ierusalem who met for jurisdiction , acts . . who layd hands on timothy , tim. . . in antioch , acts . . . there is a meeting of a provinciall church in galathia ; where there are many churches , as may be gathered from acts . . . who were to purge out the scandalous and false teachers who leavened all others , and who were gal. . . to restore with the spirit of meekenesse any fallen brother ; and . there a map and patterne of a generall synod warranting both a nationall church-meeting , and an o●cumenick councell . and the like may be gathered from that synod , acts . and acts . where these universall guides of the whole christian world , to wit , the apostles were , and did exercise jurisdiction , by ordaining of officers ; and though instances of these could not be given in scripture , there is a morall ground and warrant for it . because joynt power of jurisdiction are surer and better , then a lesser and dispersed power . for if the keys be given to the church visible , not to this or this little church , as meetting in a private house , acts . . acts . . the division or union of this power , the extension of it must be squared by the rule of most convenient edification , and it cannot stand with edification if it be given to one congregation onely : the god of nature for conserving humane societies , hath given the power of government originally , not to one , but to a multitude ; for one onely is not in danger to be wronged and oppressed in a society ; but a society is in this danger , therefore hath god given this power to a multitude : and a multitude is the formall object of policy and government , and cannot but be d●ssolved , where lawes and government are not ; so the god of grace must have given a power of government to a society and multitude of little churches : for a multitude of congregations is a multitude , and therefore this society and consociation cannot subsist , except christ have provided a supernaturall government for it . it is not reasonable , that some say , a morall institution is not an institution ; for magistracy is both morall , and a divine institution ; that god have a certaine day for his service is both morall , and also a divine institution : all institutions are not meerly positive , as some suppose , such as is , that the last day of the week be the sabbath , that bread and wine be signes of christs body br●ken , and his blood shed for us . so supposing that christ have a visible church , it is morall that shee have power of government also , in so farre as shee is a church . yea power of government , upon this supposition , is naturall , or rather con naturall ; so by the same ground upon supposall that christ have , in a nation , a multitude of consociated churches , who for vicinity may either edifie , encourage , comfort and provoke ●re another to love and good workes , they submitting themselves to the lawes of christs policy , or may scandalize one another ( as many consociated churches in galathia were bent to bite , dev●ure and consume one another , gal. . . ) it is morall , yea and con-naturall that they be under a divine policy externall . nor is it more agreeable to the wisdome of christ that a multitude of consociated churches in one land should be left to the lawes of nature , and christian brother-hood , and be loosed from all lawes of externall policy , then that the just lord who intendeth the conservation of humane societies should leave every man to the law of nature , and not give them a power to set up a magistracy , and to appoynt humane and civill lawes whereby they may be conserved . and i thinke we should all say , if god had appoynted every great family ▪ yea or every twenty families in the world to be independent , within it selfe and subordinate to no civill law , to no power , to no magistracy without that independent little incorporation , that god had not then appoynted a power of civill policy , and civill lawes for the conservation of mankind ; and the reason should be cleare , because in one shire , countrey , province and nation there should be a multitude , to wit , ten hundred , ten thousand independent kingdomes subject to no lawes , nor civill policy , but immediately subordinate to god in the law of nature , and when these ten thousand should rise up and with the sword devoure one another , and one society independent should wrong another , the onely remedy should be to complaine to god , and renounce civill communion with such societies ; that is , traffique not with them , ( doe not take or give , borrow or lend , buy or sell with them ) but it is unlawfull to use any coercive power of naturall , or civill reparation to compell them to doe duty , or execute mercy and judgement one toward another : now seeing grace destroyeth not nature , neither can there be a policy independent which doth contradict this maxime of naturall policy , acknowledged by all , in all policies , civill , naturall , supernaturall , god intending the conservation of societies both in church and state hath subjected all societies , and multitudes to lawes of externall policy : but so it is , a multitude of little congregations is a multitude ; and a society . then it must follow , that government of independent little bodies , under no coactive power of church censures , must want all divine institution and so be will worship . for these it shall be easie to answer the obloquies of some , saying , that a nationall church under the new testament is judaisme . hence say they , a nationall religion , a nationall oath or covenant , is like a world-church , a church , a huge body as big as the earth : and so , if some augustus should subdue the whole vvorld to himselfe with the sword , hee might compell the vvorld to bee all of one church , of one religion . answ. the terme nationall-church is not in the word of god , but i pray you in what sense can the iewish-church bee called a nationall-church ? i conceive not , because of the typicall and ceremoniall observances that put a church-frame on the whole nation : for if so , then the name of a nationall church or a nationall religion cannot , by envy it selfe , bee put in the reformed churches , or on church of scotland which hath suffered so much for iewish and romish ceremonies . but if the jewes were a nationall-church , because they were a holy nation in profession , and god called the nation , and made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a church externally called to grace and glory and the whole nation commensurable , and of equall extent then all christian nations professing the true faith , and the gentiles , as well as the iewes ; then the believing iewes of pontus , asia , cappadocia , and bythinia ( as augustine , eusebius , oecumenius , athanasius doe thinke that peter wrote to the iewes ) yea and the gentiles , ( as many interpreters with lorinus , thomas , lyra and others thinke ) are yet pet. . . an holy nation , and so a nationall church ; and there is no more reason to scoffe at a nationall church in this sense , then to mocke the holy spirit which maketh but one church in all the world , cant. . . as cotton , ainsworth , and other favorable witnesses to our brethren , confesse ; and if the gentiles shall come to the light of the jewish church , and kings to the brightnesse of of their rising , esai . . . if the abundance of the sea shall be converted to the iewes true faith and religion ; and the forces of the gentiles shall come to them , vers . . and if all flesh shall see the revealed glory of the lord , esai . . . and the earth shall bee filled with the knowledge of god , as the seas are filled with water . it is most agreeable to the lords word that there , is and shall be a church through the whole world ; you may nickname it as you please , and call it a vvorld-religion , a vvorld-church . as if the lost and blinded world , ioh. . , . joh. . . corin , . . were all one with the loved , redeemed , pardoned and reconciled world , ioh. . . ioh. . . cor. . . as if wee confounded these two worlds , and the religion of these two worlds . and if this world could meet in its principall lights , neither should an universall councell , nor an oath of the whole representative church be unlawfull , but enough of this before . and what if the world bee subdued to the world , and a world of nations come in , and submit to christs scepter , and royall power in his externall government : are the opposers such strangers in the scriptures , as to doubt of this ? reade then esai . . . . c. . , , , , : v. . , . psal. . , . psal. . . . . esai . . . esai . . . esai . . . . psal. : , , , . and many other places , and there is a kingdome in a kingdome . christs kingdome and his church lodging in a worldly kingdome , and christ spiritually in his power triumphing over the world , and subduing nations to his gospell . object . . if classicall presbyters be not elders in ●elation to the classicall church , and so to all the congregations in it , yee must forsake all these places , where it is said , the elders of jerusalem , the elders of ephesus , the angels of the seven churches , which is absurd ; if they be elders to all these churches , then . all those people in those churches must submit their consciences to them and their ministery , as to a lawfull ordinance of god. . all the people of those churches must have voyce in election of them all . . all these people owe to the●s maintenance and double honor . tim. . . for if the oxes mouth must not be muzl●d , but he must be fed by me and my corne , he must tread my corne , and labour for me . these churches cannot all meet in one , to ordaine , and chuse all these ministers , and to submit to their ministery . answ. the elders are elders of ephesus and elders of jerusalem , not because every elder hath a speciall , pastorall charge over every church distributively taken , for it was unpossible that one congregation of all the converts in ierusalem extending to so many thousands , could all beare the relation of a church to one man as their proper elder , who should personally reside in all , and every one of those congregations to watch for their soules , to preach to all and every congregation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in season and out of season . but they are in cumulo called elders of ephesus , in that sense that kings are called the kings of the nations not because every king was king of every nation , for the king of edom was not the king of babylon ; and the king of babel was not the king of assyria , yet amongst them they did all fill up that name to be called the kings of the nations , so were the elders of ierusalem in cumulo , collectively taken , elders of all the churches of ierusalem collectively taken ; and as it followeth not that the king of edom , because hee is one of the kings of the nations , is elected to the crowne of caldea , by the voyces of the states and nobles of caldea ; so is it not a good consequence , such a number are called the elders of the church of ierusalem , therefore the elder of one congregation at the easterne gate at ierusalem , is also an elder of a congregation of the westerne gate . nor doth it follow that these two congregations should submit their consciences to one and the same elder as to their proper pastor ; to whose ministery they owe consent in election , obedience in submitting to his doctrine , and mainetenance for his labours ; all these are due to him , who is their owne proper pastor : the as caldeans owe not honour , allegiance , tribute to the king of edom , though the kingdome of caldea bee one of the kingdomes of the nations , and the king of edom one of the kings of the nations . but if indeede all the kings of the nations did meete in one court , and in that court governe the nations with common royall authority , and counsell in those things which concerne all the kingdomes in common ; then all the nations were obliged to obey them in that court , as they governe in that court , but no farther : and when the people doe consent to the power of that common court ●●citly , they consent that every one of these shall bee chosen king of such and such a kingdome ; and promise also tracitly obedience , and subjection to every one of the kings of the nations , not simply as they are kings in relation to such a kingdome , but onely as they are members of that court ; so the congregations acknowledging and consenting to the classicall presbytery , doe tracitly chuse and consent to the common charge and care that every pastor hath , as hee is a member of that common court which doth concerne them all , therefore all these consequences are null . object . . but when the presbytery doth excommunicate in a particular congregation by a delegate , they may with as good reason , preach by a delegate , as exercise jurisdiction by a delegate ; the one is as personall and incommunicable , as the ●●●r . answ. it is certaine there bee great oddes ; for the acts of jurisdiction performed by speaking in the name of iesus christ , doe come from a colledge and court , and because it were great confusion that a whole court should speake , therefore of necessity such acts must be done by a delegate . indeed the juridicall acts of the whole juridicall proceeding of decerning the man to be excommunicated cannot bee done by one man onely , it would bee most conveniently done by the whole senate , or at least by a select number against which the accused party hath no exception , and is willing to bee judged by ; but the acts of order , as preaching flowing from the power of order , can be performed only by the pastor in his owne person , and not by a deputy . except that a synodicall teaching , which commeth from the power of jurisdiction may bee sent in writ by messengers and deputies to the churches , acts . . acts . . object . . a pastor is not a pastor , but in relation to his owne church , or congregation . therefore hee cannot doe pastorall acts of either order , or jurisdiction in a presbyterie . answ. how a pastor is a pastor in relation to all the world deserveth discussing . first , some have neither power of order nor jurisdiction in any place , as private persons . secondly , some have both power of order and jurisdiction through all the world , as the apostles who might teach and administrate the sacraments , and excommunicate as apostles , in every church . thirdly , some have power of order , and jurisdiction in a certaine determinate place , as pastors in their owne particular congregations . fourthly , some have power of order in relation to all the vvorld , as pastors of a congregation , who are pastors validly preaching and administrating the sacraments , but orderly and lawfully preaching , where they have a calling of those , who can call to the occasionall exercise of their calling hic & nunc . in this meaning a pastor of one flock is a pastor , in regard of power of order to all the world. because though his pastorall teaching be restrained by the church in ordinary , onely to this congregation , yet hath hee a pastorall power to preach to all the world , in in an occasionall way , both by word and writ , yet doth not this power being but the halfe of his ministeriall power , denominate him a pastor to all the world , as the apostles were ; and the same way hath hee power to administrate the sacraments , and this way may our brethren see that power of order to be a minister or pastor is given by the presbytery , so as if the man were deprived clave non errante , hee now hath lost his pastorall relation to both the catholick church , and that congregation , whereof hee is a pastor . so as hee is now a private man , in relation not onely to that congregation whereof hee was a pastor , but also in relation to the whole visible church ; now no particular congregation hath power to denude him of this relation , that he had to the whole catholick church . but a pastor of a flock is a pastor in respect of power of jurisdiction , not over all the world , to excommunicate in every presbytery , with the presbytery , hee is onely capable by vertue of his power of order , to exercise power of jurisdiction , where hee shall come , upon suposall of a call , if hee be chosen a pastor there , or be called to be a commissioner in the higher , or highest courts of the church catholick , but other wayes he hath no power of jurisdiction , but in that court whereof he is a member ; that is , in the eldership of a congregation , and in the classicall presbytery : for hee is so a member of a congregation , as he is also a member of the classical presbytery , and therefore though he be not a pastor one way in this classicall court , i meane in respect of power of order , yet is hee a pastor , 〈◊〉 , in watching over that church , in respect of power of jurisdiction . our brethrens ground then is weake when they say . a pastor cannot give the seales to those of another congregation , because he hath no ministeriall power over those of another congregation ; if they meane power of jurisdiction , it is true , he hath no jurisdiction over those of another congregation : but if they meane , hee hath no power of order over them , that is , for what ever be the churches part in this , it is certaine the pastor doth administrate the seales by power of order , and not by power of iurisdiction , and the church as the church hath not any power of order , for shee is not called to any pastorall dignity , though wee should grant that , which yet can never bee proved , that shee is invested with a ministeriall power . object , . if the church , which you suppse to be presbyteriall , to wit , the church of corinth , did excommunicate , or was commanded to excommunicate the incestu●us person , before the congregation convened and met in one , then must your classicall church exercise all other acts of iurisdiction , before all the congregationall churches of the classicall presbytery meete in one . but this latter is as unpossible , as absurd ; for how shall thirty or forty congregations meet all , in one place , for all the severall acts of jurisdiction ? also you confesse that many congregations cannot meete in one place : that the proposition may be made good ; we suppose these grounds of the presbyteriall frame of churches : . that the presbyteriall church of corinth , not the congregation had the onely power of excommunication . . that this man was to be excommunicated in presence , and so with the consent of the whole multitude , for so the text sayth , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . when you are gathered together . . excommunication is the highest act of iurisdiction in the church , being the binding of the sinner in heaven and earth , if therefore this highest act of iurisdiction must bee performed before all the church congregated in one , then must all acts of iurisdiction be performed also in presence of the congregated church ; for it concerneth their edification , and is a matter of conscience to then : all . . the reason why wee thinke sit hee should be excommunicated before , or in presence of that congregation whereof hee is a member , is because it concerneth them , and hee is a member of this congregation , but by your grounds , the whole presbyteriall or classicall church should be present , which were unpossible ; for hee is to you a member of the whole classicall church , and the power of excommunication is in the whole classicall church , and they ought to bee present by the same reason , that the congregation , whereof hee is a neerest member , is present . answ. . there be many things in this argument to be corrected , as . that the church of corinth conve●ed in the whole multitude whom it concerned , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doth not prove it ; for the same word is spoken of the meeting of the apostles and elders , who met in a synod with authority , acts . . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is attributed to the multitude , acts . v. . and to the church of believers , cor. . . and cor. . . therefore the one word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 seemeth to bee no cogent argument . . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is not here in all this chapter , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used in the new testament , and by the seventy interpreters , whose translation christ and his apostles doe frequently follow in the new testament , use the words for any meeting of good or ill , of civill or ecclesiasticall persons . as i might instance is a great many places of the old and new testament ; then what is it , i pray you , which restricteth the signification of these words to signifie a civill , rather then an ecclesiasticall meeting ? certainly the actions which the company doth when they are met , and the end for which they meete . i give an instance in acts . . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( the like i say of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) signifieth not the church of christ , and why ? it is a reason that cannot bee controlled . they were assembled for to raise a tumult against paul which was no church-action , and so no church end is here . so v. . but if you enquire any thing in other matters , it shall be determined 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in a lawfull assembly ; surely the end of such an assembly in ephesus , where this man was town-clark in the meeting , could be . no church-businesse , hence wee are led to know what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an assembly or church signifieth here not the church of christ , so psal. . . the assembly of the wicked hath inclosed mee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 merighem the seventy interpreters turne it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and t●rtullian followeth them , the persons congregated , the actions and end for which they convenc lead us to this , that the word signifieth not a church of christ. so wee may see , psal. . . the congregation of elders cannot bee a true church , . cor. . . for first when you come together to the church , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i heare there are divisions amongst you . the place must signifie the church of believers , because the end of their meeting was the supper of the lord , or their communion , v. . as the text cleareth , and cor. . . when the whole church commeth together , that was for prophecying and hearing of the word , as the text is evident , v. , , , , , , . and therefore here the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must signifie the church of pastors preaching , and people hearing the word , praying and praising god. so in the third place when 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the church is convened to bind and loose , and to excommunicate , as mat. . . . . there is no necessity that the word church , should include those who have no power of the keyes , and cannot by power of the keyes bind and loose . and therefore from the naked and meere grammar of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , no argument can bee drawen to prove that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matth. . . must signifie that same which it doth signifie , corin. . . corin. . . corin. . . for the word actu primo , and originally , signifieth any meeting , but the persons who are congregated and the end for which they meete leadeth us to the meaning and grammaticall sense of the word , in that place . now matth. . the ecclesia , a church congregated there is such as bindeth and looseth in heaven and earth , and congregated for that use : therefore i see not how the circumstances of the place helping us to the grammaticall sense of the word here , as in all other places , doth not inforce us to say in this place mat. . the word ecclesia , church , must signifie onely those who have power to bind and loose , that is , only the elders , and not the people . so to come to the place , cor. . those who come under the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , congregated together , must bee expounded by the persons office , and the end of their meeting , now the persons office is ministeriall , hee will have them congregated by pauls ministeriall spirit , and in the name and with the power of the lord jesus , this is the power of the keyes , which hee who hath davids keyes esai . . . on his shoulders , revel . . . giveth to his owne officers , matth. . . and these persons cannot be all that hee writeth unto v. . all that were p●ffed up , and mourned not at the offence given by the incestuous 〈◊〉 , to iesus christs holy nam● and church , all who are to forbeare eating and drinking with excommunicated persons , vers . . all who were in danger to be leavened , vers . all who were to keepe the feast in sincerity , not with the old leaven of wickednesse and malice : for these directly were the whole multitude of believers , men , women , and children , who ( i am sure ) were not capable of the keyes and the ministeriall power of paul. . the end wherefore these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 who were convened , did meete and convene , was , vers . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . to deliver the man to satan , they were not convened to celebrate the lords supper , as the church is convened , cor. . . nor for hearing the word of prophecy , or preaching , as cor. . , . and whether you construe the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the power of the lord iesus , with the verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to deliver to satan , or with the participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 congregated in the name and power of christ , all is one ; the multitude of common believers , of men , women , and children , are neither capable of the power , nor of the exercise of that power to deliver to satan . and therefore this meeting together , by no grammar doth leade us to say that the sentence was to be pronounced in face and presence of the multitude convened , vers . . giving , but not granting that the church of corinth , in all its members , must bee convened . though i hold it not necessary by this place , yet it followeth not that all other acts of jurisdiction must bee exercised in face of the whole congregation : for there is a speciall reason of the pronouncing of the sentence , which is not in other acts : the pronouncing of the sentence , concerneth more the neerest congregation of which the delinquent is a member , in relation of nearest and dayly communion , it concerneth also other congregations of the classicall church , of which also the delinquent is a member , but not so immediately and neerely , because ( as i sayd before ) the more universall the church visible is , the externall visible communion is l●sse ; even as when the number of a family is cut off , by the sword of the magistrate , the matter first and more intimately and more neerely concerneth the family whereof hee is a member , yet it doth also concerne the common-wealth , of which also hee is a member . a finger of the right hand is infected with a contagious gangren , it is to bee cut off ; yet the cutting-off concerneth more neerely the right hand , then it doth the left hand , and the whole body . for the contagion should first over-spread the right hand and arme , and shoulder , before it infect the left hand , and the whole body ; though it doe not a little concerne the whole body also . so though actuall excommunication concerne all the churches of the presbyterie : yet it doth more neerely concerne the congregation whereof hee is a member . . the pronouncing of the sentence being edificative , it is a fit meane to worke upon others , but calling and trying of witnesses , and juridicall decerning of a man to bee excommunicated , requiring secrecies , yea and some scandals , and circumstances of adultery , incest , pestiality , requiring a modest covering of them , from virgins , young men , children and the multitude , wee have no warrant of god , that they should bee tryed before the whole multitude , nor are acts of jurisdiction for their excellency , to bee brought forth before the people but for their neerenesse of concernment , and use of edification . object . . the people are to consent , yea they must have a power , and some thing more than a consent in excommunication ; ergo , they are all to bee present . the antecedent is proved , . because they were not puffed up , they did not keepe the feast , they did not dostaine from eating with the incestuous person , onely by consent . . others not of that church did excommunicate by consent . . it is said , v. , doe yee not judge them that are within ? answ. if you will have them to excommunicate the same way , that they doe other duties , you may say they excommunicate the same way that pastors and elders doe , and if they judge , vers . . as the elders doe , either all the people are judges , and where are then all the governed , if all bee governours ? or then hee speaketh in this chapter to the churches-iudges onely . . there bee degrees of consent , these of other churches have a tacite and remote consent , the people of the congregation are to heare , and know the cause , and deale in private with the offender , and to mourne , and pray for him . object . . the highest and double honour is due to him who laboureth in the word , tim. . . but if the presbyteriall church be the highest church , it shall not have the double honour , for it is onely the governing church . answ. highest honour is due in suo genere , to both . and this is , as if you should compare obedience and honour , that i owe to my father with that which i owe to my grand-father , . paul , tim. . . compareth elders of diverse sorts together ; as the ruling and teaching elder , here you compare pastors to bee honoured in respect of one act , with themselves to bee honoured in respect of another act ; and this might prove , i am to give more honour to my pastor for preaching in the pulpit , then for ruling in the church-senate . object . . the congregation is the highest church , for it hath all the ordinances , word , sacraments , jurisdiction ; ergo , there is not any presbyteriall church higher which hath only disciplinary power . answ. there is a double highnesse , one of christian dignity . . another , of church-prehemenency , or of ecclesiasticall authority : indeed the congregation , the former way , is highest , the company of believers is the spouse and ransomed bride of christ. but the eldership hath the ecclesiasticall eminency ; as the kings heire and sonne is above his master and teacher one way , yet the teacher ( as the teacher by the fift commandement ) is above the kings sonne as the teacher is above him who is taught ; and so is the case here . object . . the arguments for a classicall , or presbyteriall church do much side with prelacy ; for you make many lords ruling and not teaching . answ. let all judge whether the independent power of three elders accountable to none , in a church-way , but to iesus christ onely , as you make your little kingdomes on earth , be neerer to the popes monarchy , and especially when there is but one pastor in the congregation , then the subordinate government of fourescore , or an hundred elders● sure i am , three neighbours are neerer to one monarch , then three hundred . . one monarchicall society is as tyrannicall antichristianism as one monarchicall pastor . . if wee made many ruling and dominering lords , you should say something ; but wee make many servants endued onely with ministeriall power , onely to teach and rule , and to bee accomptable to the church ; your eldership in this agreeth with the pope , that though they deliver many soules to satan , yet no man on earth can , in a church-way , say , what doe you ? act. xv. a patterne of a juridicall synod . that the apostles in that famous synod , act. . did not goe on by the assistance of an immediately inspired spirit and by apostolick authority , but onely , as elders , and the doctors and teachers assisted with an ordinary spirit , to me is evident from the course of the context . . because act. . when a controversie arise in the church ●● antiochia , a epiphanius saith , as also b hieronymus , by c●●mbus , and others , touching the keeping of moses his law , especially the ceremonies , except they would bee losers in the bu●nesse of their salvation , paul could not goe as sent by ami●h to submit that doctrine , which hee received not from flesh and blood , but by the revelation of jesus christ , gal. . . to the determination of a synod of apostles and elders for who would think that the immediatly inspiring spirit i● p●ul , would submit himselfe , and his doctrine to the immediately inspiring spirit in paul , peter , apostles , and elders , therefore paul and birnabas , come as sent to jerusalem , not ●● apostles , or as immediately inspired , but as ordinary teach●● . therefore saith c diodatus , not because these two a● 〈…〉 were every wayequall to the rest in the light and conduct 〈◊〉 spirit , and in apostolicall authority , gal. . . . had any 〈◊〉 instruction , or of confirmation , but only to give the weake 〈◊〉 , who had more confidence in peter and james , and in the church at jerusalem , and to stop false doctors mouths , and to esta●●●● , by common votes , a generall order in the church . hence when a controversie ariseth in the apostolicke church , and the controversie is betwixt an apostle as paul was , and others , and both sides alledge scripture , as here both did , out of all controversie , there is no reason , that the apostle paul , who was now a party should judge it : and when a single congregation in the like case is on two sides , about the like question , nature , reason and law cry that neither can bee judge , and therefore a synod is the divine and apostolick remedie which must condemne the wrong side , as subverters of soules , as here they doe , v. . and the apostle when hee will speake and determine as an apostle , hee taketh it on him in another manner , as gal. . . behold i paul say unto you , that if you bee circumcised christ shall profit you nothing ; hee speaketh now as an immediatly inspired pen-man and organ infallible of the holy ghost : but it were absurd to send the immediately inspired organ of the holy ghost as such , to aske counsell and seeke resolution from the immediatly inspired organs of the holy ghost . . the rise of controversies in a church is not apostolick , nor temporary or extraordinary , but to ordinary wee have the scriptures indeed to consult with , so had the churches , whose soules were notwithstanding subverted , v. . and this assembly doth determine the controversie by scripture , v. . simeon hath declared how god at the first did visit the gentiles , &c. v. . and to this agree the words of the prophets , as it is written , &c. but because scriptures may bee alledged by both sides , as it was here , and wee have not the apostles now alive to consult withall , can jesus christ have left any other externall and church-remedy , when many churches are perverted , as here was the cases of the churches of the gentiles , v. . in antioch , syria , and cilicia , then that teachers and elders bee sent to a synod to determine the question according to the word of god ? . here also is a synod and a determination of the church of antioch , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they determined to send paul and barnabas to jerusalem : i prove that it was a church determination , for chap. . . paul and barnabas come to antioch ; v. . and when they were come , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , having gathered together the church of antioch , they rehearsed all that god had done by them , and how hee had opened the doore of faith unto the gentiles , ( . and there they abode a long time with the disciples ) chap. . . and certaine m●n which came downe from iudea , taught the brethren , except yee bee circumcised after the manner of moses , yee c●●●● bee saved ; hence v. . when there was much debate about the question , and it could not bee determined there , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they made a church-ordinance to send paul and barnabas as church-messengers , o● church-commissioners to the synod , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 relateth to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the gathered together church , chap. . v. . and it is ●eare , ● . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , being sent on their way by the church , to 〈◊〉 of antiach : ergo , this was an authoritative church sending , and not an apostolick journey performed by paul as an apostle , but as a messenger of the church at antioch , and as a messenger paul returneth with barnabas and giveth a due rec●oning and account of his commission to the church of antioch , who sent him , v. . so when they , ( paul and barnabas having received the determination of the synod ) w●en they were dismissed , they came to antioch , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which words are relative to chap. . . having gathered together the church , and to chap. . . being sent on their way by the church , so here having gathered the whole church , the multitude , they delivered the epistle of the synod , and read it in the hearing of all the multitude , for it concerned the practise of all whereas it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the church which sent them , cb. . . ch. . . . so here wee have a subordination of churches and church-synod , for the synod or presbytery of antioch , called the church con●eened , ch. . . and the church ordaining and enacting that paul and barnabas shall be sent as commissioners to jerusalem , is subordinate to the greater synod of apostles and elders at jerusalem , which saith to mee that controversies in an interiour church-meeting are to be referred to an higher meeting con●●ting of more . . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this dissention and disputation betweene paul and b●rnabas , and some of the beleeving jewes who taught the brethren they behoved to be circumcised , was a church-entroversie ; paul and barnabas did hold the negative , and defended the church of the brethren from embracing such wicked opinions ; and when antioch could not determine the question , paul and barnabas had recourse to a synod , as ordinary shepheards , who when they could not perswade the ●rethren of the falsehood of the doctrine , went to seeke helpe against subverters of soules , ( as they are called , v. . ) at the established judicatures and ecclesiasticail meetings ; for when pauls preaching cannot prevaile , though it was canonicall , hee descendeth to that course which ordinary pastors by the light of nature should doe , to seeke helpe from a colledge of church-guides ; ergo , paul did not this meerely as an apostle . . vers. . the apostles & elders came together in an assembly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to consider of this matter this synodicall consideration upon the apostles part , was either apostolick , or it was ecclesiastick . it was not apostelick , because the apostles had apostolically considered of it before , paul had determined v. . against these subverters , that they should not bee circumcised , nor was it a thing that they had not fully considered before , for to determine this was not so deepe a mystery as the mystery of the gospell ; now he saith of the gospell , 〈◊〉 . . . i received it not of men , neither was i taught it , but by the revelation of jesus christ , v. . when it ples'ed god to reveale his sonne to me that i should preach him among the ●eathen , i conferred not with flesh and blood , neither went i up to jerusalem to them that were apostles before me , &c. then farre lesse did hee conferre with apostles and elders , as touching the ceremonies of moses his law. if any say , this was an ecclesiastick meeting , according to the matter , apostolick , but according to the forme , ecclesiastick , in respect the apostles and elders meet to consider how this might be represented to the churches as a necessary dutie in this case of scandall ; this is all wee crave , and the decree is formally ecclesiastick , and so the apostles gave out the decree in an ecclesiasticall way , and this consideration synodicall is an ecclesiasticall discussion of a controversie which concerned the present practise of the churches , and it not being apostolick must obliege many churches convened in their principall guides , otherwise wee agree that the matter of every ecclesiasticall decree , be a scripturall truth , or then warranted by the evident light of nature . . the manner of the apostles proceeding in this councell holdeth forth to us that it was not apostolicke , because they proceed by way of communication of counsells . . what light could elders adde to the apostles as apostles , but the elders as well as the apostles , convened to consider about this matter , and act. . . . all the elders of jerusalem with james take on them these acts as well as the apostles , and they are the decrees of the elders no lesse then of the apostles , act. . ● . . a derivation of the immediate impi●ing spirit to ●●● elders , and by them as fellow-members of the synod to the apostles , and a derivation of this immediat apostolick spirit , by the apostles to the elders to make them also infallible , is unknowne to scripture ; for one prophet did not immediatly inspire another , and one apostle did not immediatly inspire another , wee read not in the word of any such thing , and therefore it is said , act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and when there had beene much disputing peter s●●d up . all who interpret this place say , even papists not ex●pted , as salmero com . in 〈◊〉 salmeron , l●●mus ● . lorinus , cornelius a lapt . cornelius a lapide , and others on the place , that when there is not consultation and disputing on both sides to find out the truth , but an absolute authoritie used by commanding , the proceeding of the counceil is rash ( saith salmeron ; ) now the prophets were immediatly inspired , without any consultation with men in delivering gods will , and they saw the visions of god , as it is said . and the word of the lord came to jeremiah , to ezechiel , to hosea , &c. and bee said , &c. yea when a propheticall spirit came upon ba●●m , num. . bee seeing the visions of god , hee prophecied directly contrary to his owne carnall mind , and to his consultation with bal●●k : now it is cleare that the apostles , what they spake , by the breathings and inspirations of that immediatly inspiring spirit is no lesse cannonick scripture , then the prophecies of the immediatly inspired prophets , who saw the visions of god , and therefore pet. . , , , the voyce that the apostles heard from heaven , this is my beloved sonn● in whom i am well pleased , is made equall with the word of proph●cie and propheticall scripture , which the holy men of god spale , ● they were moved by the holy ghost , v. , , . and pet. . . pauls epistles are put in the classe with other scriptures , v. , . now all scripture , tim. . . is given by divine inspiration , and peter . . puteth the words of the prophets and apostles in the same place of divine authority , pet. . . that yee bee mindfull of the words which were spoken before , by the holy prophets , and of the commandements of us the apostles of the lord and saviour , whence to mee this synodicall consultation is not apostolicall , but such as is obligatory of the churches to the end of the world , and a patterne of a generall synod . . this assembly is led by the holy spirit , as is cleare , v. . . but this is not the holy spirit immediatly inspiring the apostles as apostles , but that ordinary synodicall spirit ( to borrow that expression ) that is promised to all the faithfull pastors and rulers of the church to the end of the world : because the immediatly inspiring spirit comming on prophets and apostles in an immediate inspiration , did necessitate the prophets and apostles to acquiesce , and prophesie , and to doe and speake whatsoever this spirit inspired them to doe , and to speake : but this spirit spoken of , v. . doth not so , but leaveth the assembly to a greater libertie , because the assembly doth not acquiesce to that which peter saith from gods word , v. , , , , . nor doth the assembly acquiesce to what barnabas and paul saith , v. . but onely to that which james saith , v. , , , , , . but especially to his conclusion which hee draweth from the law of nature , not to give scandall , and from the scriptures cited by himselfe , and by peter , v. , . wherefore my sentence is , saith james , &c. and this clearely is the sentence of james as a member of the synod , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is an expression clearly insinuating that the judgement of james , though it was not contrary to that which peter , paul , and barnabas had spoken , yet that is was somewhat diverse from them , and more particular , and the very mind of the holy ghost which the whole synod followed ; and therefore though peter and paul spake truth , yet did they not speake that truth , which did compose the controversie , and this is to mee an argument that they all spake , as members of the synod , and not as apostles . . the immediatly inspired apostolick spirit , though it may discourse and inferre a conclusion from such and such premisses , as paul doth , rom. . . and hee proveth from the scripture , rom. . . . . that wee are justified by saith without workes , and tim. . . . and act. . . act. . . . and so doth christ reason and argument from scripture , matth. . . luk. . , , . and so have both the prophets and apostles argued , yet the immediatly inspired spirit of god in arguing doth not take helpe by disputing one with another . and yet doth not obtaine the conclusion in hand , but here pe●●● and paul argue from scripture , and they prove indeed a true conclusion that the gentiles should not keepe moses his law , as they would bee saved , yet they did not remove the question , nor satisfic the consciences of the churches , in their present practise , for if james had not said more , then the churches had not beene sufficiently directed in their practise by the synod , and for all that peter and paul said , the churches might have ea●●n meates offered to idols , and blood , and things strangled , which at that time had been a sin against the law of nature , and a great stumbling block , and a scandalizing of the jewes . except therefore wee say that the apostles intending as apostles to determine a controversie in the church , they did not determine it , which is an injury to that immediatly inspiring spirit that led the apostles in penning scripture , wee must say that peter , paul , and james here spake as members of an eccle●iasticall synod , for the churches after-imitation . . if the apostles here as apostles give out this decree , then it would seeme that as apostles , by virtue of the immediatly inspiring spirit , they sent messengers to the churches , for one spirit directeth all , and by this text , wee should have no warrant from the apostles practise , to send messengers to satisfie the consciences of the churches , when they should bee troubled with such questions : now all our divines and reason doth evince that a synod may by this text send messengers to resolve doubting churches , in points dogmaticall ; for what the apostles doe as apostles , by that power by which they writ canonick scripture , in that wee have no warrant to imitate them . . i propounded another argument before , which prevaileth much with mee ; the elders of an ordinary presbytery and churches , such as conveened at this synod cannot be collaterall actors with the immediatly inspired apostles for the penning of canonick scripture , but in this synod not onely elders , but the whole church , as our reverend brethren teach , were actors in penning this decre , act. . . ergo , this decree is synodicall , not apostolick . i have heard some of our reverend brethren say , all were not actors in the decree , pari gradu authoritatis , with a like degree : and equall authoritie , every one according to their place did concurre in forming this decree . i answer , it cannot bee said that all in their owne degree saw the visions of god , and all in their owne degree were immediatly inspired to bee penmen of canonick scripture , for paul in penning this , the cloake that i left at troas bring with thee , and the parchmen●s , was no lesse immediatly inspired of god , then were the prophets , who saw the visions of god , and then when hee penned the , tim. . . that jesus christ came into the world to s●●● sinners ; except wee flee to a popish distinction which duvallius and jesuits hold , that all and every part , tota scriptura , and totum scripturae , is not given by divine inspiration , because ( say they ) the apostles spake and wrote some things in the new testament as immediatly inspired by god , as did the prophets , but they spake and wrote other things 〈◊〉 necessary , with an inferiour and apostolick or synodica●● spirit , which the pe●e and church may decree in synods to ●ee received with the like faith and subjection of conscience , as if the apostles had written them . . you must say there was two holy 〈◊〉 the penning of the decree , one immediatly inspiring the apostles , another inferior assisting the elders ; or at 〈◊〉 diverse and most different acts of that same ho●y 〈…〉 way inspiring the apostles , and in a fallible way , inspiring the elders . but with your leave , act. . . the ordinary i●es●ytery at ierusalem , by that same synodicall spirit , by which they or●aine paul to purifie himselfe , doe ascribe to themselves this decree , v. . . wee de●ire a warrant from gods word , of commixion of immediatly inspired apostles as immediatly inspired with elders , assisted with an ordinary spirit , for the p●●ning of scripture . . wee thinke the presbytery of jerusalem as an ordinary presbytery , act. . . and contradivided from the church of jrusalem , v. . the multitude must needs come together , for they heare that thou art come , did ordaine paul to purifie himselfe , and it is cleare paul otherwise would not have purified himselfe , and therefore hee did not by the immediatly inspired spirit purifie himselfe , and obey their decree , which was grounded upon the law of nature , not to scandalize weake beleevers , v. ● , . and bt this same holy spirit did paul with other of the apostles write this decree , as is cleare v. . . if the apostles did all in this synod as immediatly inspired by god , then should the synod have followed the determination of any one apostle , of peter and paul , as well as of 〈◊〉 , for the immediatly inspiring spirit is alike perfect in all ●●s determinations , but it is said expresly , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. then it seemed good to the apostles , &c. and so to 〈◊〉 , and peter , and paul , to follow the sentence of james , 〈◊〉 the rest of the apostles ; now if james spake as an immediately inspired apostle , and not by vertue of that synodicall spirit given to all faithfull pastors conveened in a lawfull synod , then should james have acquiesced to what peter and paul aid , and not to what hee said himselfe , and peter should have acquiesced to what hee said , and paul to what hee said , ●● every inspired writer is to obey what the immediatly inspiring spirit saith , and then there was no reason why the synod should rather acquiesce to what peter and paul said who spake of no abstinence from blood and things strangled , then to what james said , ergo , by the apostles consequence , v. . ( we gave ●● such commandement , that you must bee circumcised , ergo , you should not bee circumcised ) so this consequence is good , peter and paul speaking as apostles gave no commandement in this synod to abtaine from blood , ergo , by the like consequence the synod was not to command n● abstinence from blood , which consequence is absurd , ergo , they command not here as apostles , . the synod should have been left in the midst to doubt , whether shall wee follow paul and peter , who speake and command n● abstinence from blood and things strangled , o● shall wee follow james , who commandeth to abstaine from blood and things 〈◊〉 , for all here command as immediatly inspired apostles , and what the apostles judge lawfull and command as apostles , that must the churches follow , and what they command not , that by an immediatly inspiring spirit they command not , as is cleare , v. . and that also must the churches not follow , therefore i thinke we must say they did not here speak as apostles . . these words , v. . some who pervert your soules say , you must bee circumcised , and keep the law , to whom wee gave no such commandement ) doe clearely hold forth what the apostles as apostles command in gods worship that the churches must doe , what the apostles as apostles command not , in gods worship , that the churches must not doe whence they teach , . that an apostolicke commandement of any one apostle without any synod might have determined the question , to what use then doth a synod conduce ? ergo , certainly either the synod was convened for no use , which is contrary to gods word , act. . . . act. . . . it served to resolve the controversie and edifie the churches , act. . . they delivered them the decrees , &c. . and so the churches were established in the saith , and increased in number daily , or then the synodicall commandement , and so the synodicall spirit spoken of v. . must bee some other thing then the apostolicall commandement , and the immediatly inspiring spirit . . the apostles gave no positive commandement to keep moses his law as apostles , nay nor to keepe any part of it , they did not as apostles forbid , before this synod , that the gentiles should abstaine from blood , and things strangled , which were mosaicall lawes before this synod , yet now they give a commandement to keepe some mosaicall lawes , in the case of scandall ; hence wee must either judge that now as apostles they command in positive commandements the keeping of moses his law , contrary to what they say , for their not commanding to keepe moses his law is a commanding not to keepe it , ( observe this ) or then their commandement here is but synodicall and so far binding as the case of scandall standeth in vigor , which certainly a synod may command , and one church may injoyne , by way of counsell , to another , for otherwise as apostles forbidding scandall , which is spirituall homicide , they forbid also eating of blood , in that case when it stood indifferent . . the apostles saying , to whom wee gave no such commandement , they clearely insinuate that their commandement as apostles de jure , should have ended the controversie , but now for the edification and after-example of the churches they tooke a synodicall way . . the way of the apostles speaking seemeth to mee synodicall , and not given out with that divine and apostolicall authoritie , that the apostles may use in commanding : it is true , they use lovely and swasory exhortations in their writing , but this is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a decree , not an exhortation , now james saith , ● . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is set downe as his private opinion , with reverence to what peter and paul saith , and v. . peter when many had disputed and spoken before him , standeth up and speaketh , and v. . barnabas and paul , after the multitude is ●●nt doth speake , which to mee is a synodicall order , and the whole synod , v. . say , it seemed good to us . they answer . . consociated churches have some power in determining of dogmaticall points , but this is no power of jurisdictim . the seventh proposition to which almost all the elders of new england agreed , saith ; the synod bath no church-power , but the cause enimeth with the church . corpus cum causa , the church-body , and the cause which concerneth the church-body , doe remaine together , ●nd therefore quaestio defertur ad synodum , causa manet penes eccleiam , the question is brought to the synod , the cause remaineth with the church . another manuscript of godly and learned divines i saw , which saith ; that the ministeriall power of applying of the rules of the word and canons to persons and things from time to time , as the occasions of the church shall require , pertaineth to , and may be exercised by each particular church , without any necessary dependance on other churches , yet in difficill cases wee ought ( say they ) to consult with , and seeke advise from presbyteries and ministers of 〈◊〉 churches , and give so much authoritie to a concurrence of judgements as shall , and ought to be an obligation to us , not to depart from any such resolutions , as they shall make upon any consideration but where in conscience , and hence our peace with god is apparently concerned . answ. i perceive , . that our brethren cannot indure that a synod should bee called a church ; but . i verily thinke that when paul and barnabas , act. . , . had much dissention with those who taught , you must bee circumcised after the manner of moses , that the church of antioch resolved to tell the church , that is the synod , while as they fall upon this remedy , v. . they determined that paul and barnabas and certaine other of them , 〈◊〉 goe up to jerusalem unto the apostles and elders , about this question , that is , that the church of antioch , ( when the subver●ers of soules would not heare their brethren of antioch ) did tell the synod convened at jerusalem , that is , according to our ●viours order , ma●●● . . . they did tell the church : and my reason is , if the church at antioch could not satisfie the con●c●en●es of some who said , you must bee circumcised , else you cann●x in saved , they could not , nor had they power , in that cast not to goe on , but were obliged to tell the synod , that is , the church , whom it concerned as well as antioch : for if they had sent the matter to the synod as a question , not as a cause proper to the synod , or church ; then when the synod had resolved the question , the cause should have returned to the church of antioch , and been determined at antioch , as in the proper court , if that hold true , the question is deserred to the synod , the cau●e remaineth with the body , the church ; but the cause returned never to the church of antioch , but both question and cause was determined by the synodicall-church , act. v. . , . and the determination of both question and cause ended in the synod , as in a proper court , and is imposed as a commandement and a synodicall canon , to bee observed both by antioch , v. , , , , . and other churches , act. . , . ergo , either the church of antioch lost their right , and yet kept christs order , matth. . , , . or the question and cause in this case belongeth to a synod . . it is said expresly , ● . . it pleased t● apostles , elders , and the whole church to send chosen men of their own company to antioch , &c. what church was this ? the whole church of ●●leevers , or the fiaternitie at jerusalem ; ( say our brethren ) but with leave of their godlinesse and learning no , say ● . . what reason that the church of all beleevers men and women of jerusalem , should de jure , have beene present to give either consent or surfrage there : because it concerned then practise and conscience , but i say it concerned as much , if not more , the conscience and practise of the church of antioch , if not more , for the cause was theirs ( say our brethen ) and cause ad corpus ( say they ) quaestio ad synodum , and it concerned as much the practise and conscience of all the churches , who were to observe these decrees , act . . act. . . yet they were not present . if the multitude of ●●leevers of jerusalem was present , because they were 〈…〉 to the synod , whereas antioch & other 〈…〉 were nor off , were not present , but in their commissioners , then i say the church ●● the multitude of jerusalem , whose commidic●●●s were here 〈◊〉 ; i say the multitude was present ●uely de 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 nor was there more law for their presence , then ●or all other churches , who also in conscience were obliged to obey the councells determinations : but i , deare a warrant that the fact of the synod , such as was sending of the decrees and commissioners with the decrees to antioch , should bee ●●●●ibed to the multitude of beleevers at jerusalem , who by no law of god were present at the synod , and by no law of god 〈◊〉 more consent then the church of antioch , and were present 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and by accident , because they dwelt in the 〈◊〉 where the synod did sit , therefore say i , the 〈◊〉 church in the whole synod . . by what law can jerusalem a sister church have influence or consent de jure , in sending binding acts , as these were , as is cleare , v. . ch. . , . ch. . . to the church of antioch ? for this is an authoritative sending of messengers , and the canons to the church of antioch , as is evident , v. . . it is utterly denied that the church of jerusalem , i meane the multitude of beleevers , could meet all at one synod . . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , v. . which is said to hold their peace , is referred to the apostles and elders met synodically , v. . and is not the multitude of beleevers . . where are these who are called elders , not apostles , they are ever distinguished from the apostles , as act. . . v. . v. . act. . . act. . . . ●are is no reason that they were all elders of jerusalem , for 〈◊〉 can elders of one sister church impose lawes , burdens , ● and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 decrees , ch. . . upon sister churches ? or h●w can they pen canonicall scripture joyntly with the apostles ? some of our brethren say so much of those degrees , that they obliged formally the churches as scriptures doe oblige : the learned junius saith well , that the apostles did nothing as apostles where there was an ordinarie and established eldery●● in the church ; therefore those elders behoved to bee the 〈◊〉 of antioch , for act. . v. . 〈…〉 commissioners were 〈◊〉 from antioch then paul and 〈…〉 . i thinke also the churches of cyria and 〈◊〉 〈…〉 there , as well as antioch , and de jure , 〈…〉 should have beene there ; the case was theirs every way the same with the church of antioch , and their soules subverted , v. . . those who are named v. . apostles , elders , and the whole church are called v. . apostles , and elders , and brethren , and elsewhere alwayes apostles and elders ( elders including brethren , or the whole church , v. . of some chosen men , and brethren ) as act. . . v. . ch. . . act. . . . . i desire to try what truth is here , that this synod but power and authoritie in points dogmaticall , but no church-power ( saith the seventh proposition of the reverend and godly brethren of new england ) and no power of jurisdiction , but the church of antioch had church-power and power of jurisdiction to determine this cause and censure the contraveeners , as our brethren say . but i assume , this synod tooke this church-power off their hand , and with the joynt power of their owne commissioners sent from antioch , v. . v. . . determined both cause and controversie , and it never returned to any church-court at antioch , as is cleare , v. , , , . ergo , this synod had a church-power . . a power and authoritie dogmaticall to determine in matters of doctrine is a church-power proper to a church , as is granted by our brethren , and as wee prove from , act. . . this is a part of the over-sight committed to the eldership of ephesus , to take heed to men rising amongst themselves speaking perverse things , that is , teaching false doctrine ; and if they watch over them , as members of their church ( for they were v. . men of their owne ) they were to censure them . . if pergamus bee rebuked , re●el . . . . and threatned with the removing of their candlesticke , because they had amongst them those who held the doctrine of balaam , and the doctrine of the nicolaitans , hated by christ himselfe , and did not use the power of jurisdiction against them ▪ then that church which hath power dogmaticall to judge of doctrine , hath power also of jurisdiction to censure those who hold the false doctrine of balaam , and v. . christ saith to thyatira . notwithstanding i have a few things against thee , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because thou suff●●● that woman jesabel , which calleth herselfe a prophetesse , to teach and to sedu●e my servants to commit fornication , and to eate things sacrif●●d to idols . hence i argue , what church hath power to try the false doctrin of jesabel , and is blamed for not censuring her , but permitteth her to teach and to seduce the servants of god , hath also power of jurisdiction against her false doctrine : this poposition i take to bee evident in those two churches of pergamus and thyatira . i assume : but this synod , act. . hath authoritie and power to condemne the false doctrine taught by subverters of soules , teaching a necessitie of circumcision , in the churches of syria , cilicia , antioch , &c. act. . vers . , . therefore this synod hath power of jurisdiction . . every societie which hath power to lay on burdens as here this synod hath , v. . and to send decrees to be observed by the churches , as act. . . and to send and conclude , that they observe no such thing , and that they observe such and such things , act. . . by the power of the holy ghost , conveened in an assembly , . and judging according to gods word , as ● . , , , , , , &c. these have power of juridiction to censure the contraveners : but this synod is such a societie , ergo , it hath this power . the proposition is , matth. . . if hee refuse to heare the church , let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican ; nothing can bee answered here , but because this synod commandeth onely in a brotherly way , but by no church-power , therefore they have no power of jurisdiction . but with reverence of these learned men , this is , petitio principii , to begge what is in question ; for the words are cleare , a brotherly counsell and advise is no command , no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , no decree which wee must observe , and by the observing whereof the churches are established in the faith , as is said of these decrees , act. . , . to give a brotherly counsell , such as abigail gave to david , and a little maide gave to namaan , is not a burden laid on by the commander ; but it is said of this decree , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it seemed good to the holy ghost to lay no other burden on you . also we do not say that power of jurisdiction is in provinciall or nationall synods as in the churches , who have power to excommunicate ; for . this power of jurisdiction in synods is cumulative , not privative ; . it is in the synod quoad actus imperatos , potius quam act us elicitos , according to commanded rather then to elicit acts , for the synod by an ecclesiasticall power added to that intrinsecall power of jurisdiction in churches , doth command the churches to use their power of jurisdiction rather then use it actually her selfe . let me also make use of two propositions agreed upon in a synod at new england . their . proposition . the fraternitie have an authoritative concurrence with the preshyteny , in judiciall acts. . proposition . the fraternitie in an organicall body , actu subordinate , id est , per modum obedientiae , in subordination by way of obedience to the presbytery in such judiciall acts , cor. . . now if here the whole church of jerusalem , as they say from v. . was present , and joyned their authoritative concurrence to these decrees , there was here in this synod an organicall body of eyes , eares , and other members , that is , of apostles , teachers , elders and people , and so a formed church by our brethrens doctrine , ●●gs , paul and barnabas , v. . being sent to this synod by the church of antioch to complaine , were sent to tell the formed and organicall churches , as it is matth. which is a good argument , if not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as aristotle saith , yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . if the brethren here concurre as giving obedience to the elders , and the apostles doe here determine as apostles and elders , then the brothren in this organicall body doe concurre to the forming of these decrees by way of obedience to the elders ● presbyters , and by the same reason the elders concurre by way of obedience to the apostles , for as the elders as elders and above the fraternitie , so the apostles as apostles are above the elders : but then i much wonder how the acts are called the decrees of the apostles and elders joyntly , act. . . and how the elders of ierusalem doe ascribe those decrees to themselves , act. . . and how all the assembly speake as assisted by the holy ghost , act. . . shall wee distinguish where the scripture doth not onely not distinguish , but doth clearly hold forth qualitie and an identitie ? but some object , that the holy ghost , v. . is the immediatly instiring apostolick spirit● and so the apostles must here concurre in giving out those decrees as apostles , not as ordinary elders . . is peter and paul alledge scripture and testimonies of gods spirit in this syned , as elders , not as apostles , then they reason in the synod as falli●● men , and men who may erre , but that is impossible ; for if they 〈◊〉 scripture , as men who may erre , the scripture which they al●●dge 〈◊〉 be fallible . answ. though the apostles here reason as elders , not as ap●st●●s , i see no inconvenience to say they were men who might ●re , though as led with the holy ghost , they could not erre in this syned following the conduct of the holy ghost , as is said , ● . . though the holy ghost there bee onely the ordinary holy ghost given to all the pastors of christ assembled in gods name and the authoritie of iesus christ , yet in this act and as led by this spirit , they were not fallible , neither men who could erre : for i see not how ordinary beleevers as led in such and such acts by the holy ghost , and under that reduplication can erre , for they erre as men in whom there is flesh and a body of corruption , and therefore , though both apostles and elders , modaliter , might erre , as logick saith ; aposta●●s err are est possible , yet de facto , in this they could not erre , being led by the holy ghost , v. . and the necessitie of their not erring is not absolute , but necessary by consequent , because the spirit of god led them , as v. . but the reason is must , weake , if they might erre , ergo , the scripture they alledge might bee fallible : for though hereticks alledge scripture , and abuse it , and make it to bee no scripture , but their owne fancie , while as they alledge it to establish blasphemous conclusions , yet doth it no way follow that scripture can bee fallible , or obnoxious to error , but onely that abused and a●● applved scripture is not scripture . object . . if ever the apostles were led by an infallible spirit , 〈◊〉 to bee in a matter like this , which so much concerned the 〈◊〉 and consciences of all the christian churches amongst the gen 〈◊〉 : e●go , in this synod they could not bee led by a fallible spirit , but ●● an infallible , and so by an apostolick spirit . answ. i conceive the spirit which led both apostles and elders in this synod , was an infallible spirit , but ergo , an immediatly inspiring and apostolick spirit , it followeth not ; yea the holy ghost of which luke doth speake , v. . as the president and leader of this first mould of all synods , and so the most perfect synod , is never fallible , no not in the meanest beleever , and it were blasphemy to say the holy ghost in any can bee obnoxious to errour ; and i thinke de facto , neither apostles nor elders could erre in this synod , because , de fact● , they followed the conduct of the holy ghost , without any byas in judgement ; but it followeth not , . that the men could not erre , because the holy ghost leading the men could not erre , as wee answer papists who produce this same argument to prove that generall councells , and so the church must be infallible . . it followeth not , ergo , this holy ghost was that immediatly inspiring and apostolick spirit leading both apostles and elders , which is the question now in hand . object . . this is a patterne of all lawfull synods , then may all lawfull synods say ; it seemed good to the holy ghost , and to us : if therefore the men might erre , the leader , to wit , the holy ghost might erre , which is absurd . answ. it followeth onely that all lawfull synods should so proceed , as they may say , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us , and there is a wide difference betwixt law and fact , all are lawfull synods conveened in the name and authoritie of christ , and so by warrant of the holy ghost speaking in his word ; but it followeth not ( as papists inferre , and this argument proveth ) that therefore all which de facto , those lawfully assembled synods doe and conclude , that they are the doings and conclusions of the holy ghost , and that in them all , they may say , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us . . the consequence is false and blasphemous , that if all lawfully conveened synods may not say , it seemed good to the holy ghost and us , that therefore the holy ghost is fallible , and may erre , but onely that men in the synod following their owne ghost , and spirit , can say no more but , it seemed good to our ghost and spirit , and cannot say , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us : for an ordinary pastor lawfully called and preaching sound doctrine in the power and assistance of gods spirit doth speake in that act from the holy ghost , and yet because in other acts , wherein with nathan and samuel hee may speake with his owne spirit , see with his owne eyes and light , it followeth not that he is infallible , or that the holy ghost is infallible . object is the apostles did not conclude in this synod , what they 〈…〉 an ap s●a ●●k spirit , it shall follow that the holy ghost 〈…〉 . . is not that same holy ghost of which peter 〈◊〉 , pet. . . but holy men of god spake as they were moved 〈◊〉 ghost , and if so , that holy ghost which spake in the pro 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not also speake in the apostles . answ. i see no necessitie of two holy ghosts , cor. . . now 〈◊〉 ●●●●ersities of gifts , but the same spirit , there be divers acts of the same holy ghost , and i willingly contend that the synodicall acts of apostles and elders in this synod , though comming from the holy ghost assisting them as elders in an ordinary synod , v. . are different from the acts of that same holy ghost as immediatly inspiring the prophets and apostles in prophecying and penning canonick scripture ; and yet there bee not two holy ghosts , for paul did not beleeve in christ by that same spirit which immediatly inspired him and the rest of the apostles and prophets to write canonick scripture . ● meane it is not the same operation of the spirit , because paul by the holy ghost given to all the faithfull as christians , and not given to them as canonicall writers , or as apostles or immediatly inspired prophets doth beleeve in christ , love christ , contend for the prise of the high calling of god , as is cleare rom. ● . , , . cor. . . . phil. . . . cor. . . yea paul beleeveth not in christ as an apostle , but as a christian , and yet hee beleeveth by the grace of the holy ghost ; but ●● followeth not that the same spirit which immediatly inspired the prophets doth not immediatly inspire paul as an apostle , and all the rest of the apostles . object . . these decrees , act. . . are called the decrees of the apostles and elders , but if the apostles in giving out these decrees gave 〈◊〉 as ordinary elders , not as apostles , then the sense of the words , act. . . should bee , that they were the decrees of the elders and of the elders , which is absued . answ. it followeth onely that they are the decrees of the apostles who in that give them out as elders , and as a part of the ordinary established elders of jerusalem . whence if christ promise the holy spirit to lead his apostles in all truth , hee promiseth also the holy spirit to all their successors , pastors , teachers and elders , not onely conveened in a congregationall-church , but also in a synod , as hee maketh good his promise here , act. . . and whereas the holy ghost commandeth in a synod of apostles and elders who are lawfully conveened , by our brethrens confession , and speaketh authoritatively gods word by the holy ghost , act. . . they cannot speake it as a counsell and brotherly advise onely , for that a brother may doe to another , a woman to a woman , abigail to david , a maide to naaman : wee desire a warrant from gods word , where an instituted societie of pastors and elders conveened from sundry churches , and in that court formally consociated and decreeing by the holy ghost , as act. . . against such and such heresies , shall bee no other then a counsell and advise , and no church-commandement , nor binding decree backed with this power : hee that despiseth you , speaking by the holy ghost , the word of god , despiseth mee , and whether doctrines , or canons concerning doctrine , comming from a lawfull court , conveened in christs name , have no ecclesiasticall power of spirituall jurisdiction to get obedience to their lawfull decrees ; for if every one of the suffrages of elders bee but a private counsell having onely authoritie objective from the intrinsecall lawfulnesse of the thing , and no authoritie officiall from the pastors , because pastors , then the whole conclusion of the synod shall amount to no higher rate and summe then to a meere advise and counsell . if it bee said , that when they are all united in a synod , and speaking as assembled , act. . . and speaking thus assembled by the holy ghost , v. . the authoritie is more then a counsell , yet not a power of church-jurisdiction . then . give us a warrant in gods word , for this distinction . . wee aske whether this authoritie being contemned , the persons or churches contemnibg it , bee under any church-censure , or not ; if they bee under a church-censure , what is this but that the synod hath power of censure , and so power of jurisdiction ? if you say non-communion is a sufficient censure . but i pray you spare mee to examine this ; . if the sentence of non-communion bee a sentence of 〈◊〉 . it must proceed from a judicature that hath a 〈◊〉 of jurisdiction , but give mee leave to say as all church - 〈◊〉 have and must have warrant in gods word , so must 〈◊〉 , such as non-communion , for the ordinary church punishments , such as publike rebu●ing have warrant in the word , as in tim. . . and excommunication , cor. . . 〈◊〉 ● . and the great anathema maranatha , cor. . . and forbearing to eate and drinke with scandalous persons , cor. . , . withdrawing from his company , th●s . . . and i pray you where hath the word taught us of such a bastard 〈◊〉 - ensure , or if you will not allow it that name , a censure indicted by the church or churches , as is non-communion . may our brethren without christs warrant shape any punishment equivalent to excommunication without gods word ? 〈◊〉 they may as well without the word mould us such a censure as excommunication : if they say , separation warrenth this censure of non-communion . but . by what law of god can an equall give out a sentence of non-communion a 〈◊〉 an equall , an equall cannot as an equall punish , when a christian denieth followship to another because hee is excommunicated , hee doth not punish as an equall , for the punisher in this case denying fellowship to the excommunicated doth 〈◊〉 an equall , but as having authoritie from the church , who hath given this commandement in the very sentence of communication . cor. . . compared with v. , . separation under a great controversie , and denyed in many cases ●● the way of those who are more rigid therein , even by our 〈◊〉 . . christ , matth. . , . will not have any brother , who 〈◊〉 but private authoritie and no church-authoritie over a bro●●●● 〈…〉 non habet potestatem ) to presently renounce 〈◊〉 give up all communion with his brother , though hee bee 〈◊〉 before two or three witnesses , and inflict on him the sentence of non-communion , while hee first tell the church , and non-communion is inflicted on no man as if hee were a heathen 〈◊〉 ( to speak no thing of delivering to satan ) while hee ●● conveened and judicially sentenced before the church ; 〈◊〉 our brethrens sentence of non-communion is in inflicted by an equall church upon a ●●ster church in a meere p●●●● way , and by no church-proces . . non-communion , if it bee warranted by the law of ●●ture , as communion of equalls is , yet should wee not bee refused of the like favour , when wee plead that the law of nature pleadeth for combination and communion of joynt authorities of s●s●er-churches , in one presbytery : for if non-communion of churches bee of the law of nature , so must communion of churches , and authoritative communion , and authoritative and judiciall non-communion , by natures law must be as warrantable upon the same grounds . they . object . ● the apostles , were in this synod as ordinary elders th●n , the synod might have censured , and in case of obs●inacie excommunicated the apostles which were admirable . answ. for re●ukeing of apostles wee have against papists a memorable warrant in paul , gal. . withstanding peter to ●ce face , and peter his giving an account , act. , , . to the church of jerusalem of his going in to the gentiles , which parker acknowledgeth against papists and prelats to bee a note of peters subjection to the church . papists say it was peters humilitie ; other papists say peter gave but such a brotherly account to the church , such as one brother is oblieged to give to another : also all our divines , and those papists who contend that the pope is inferiour to universall councels . doc with good warrant alledge that by matth. . peter is subjected to the church-censures , if hee sinn against his brother , and therefore we doubt not , but the church hath , jus , law to excommunicate the apostles , in case of obstinacie , and would have used this power i● judas had lived now when the power of excommunication was in vigor ; but wee say withall , de facto , the su●position was unpossible in respect that continued and habituall obstinacie , and flagitious and at●ocious scandals deserving excommunication , were inconsistent with that measure of the holy spirit bestowed upon those catholick organs and vessels of mercy : but this exempteth the apostles from act all excommunication , de facto , but is our brethren ex●●pt them , a jure , from the law , they transforme the apostles into popes , above all law , which wee cannot doe , apostolick eminencie doth 〈…〉 neither peter nor paul to bee above either the 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉 law , or the positive lawes gi 〈…〉 one doth wittily say on these 〈…〉 matth. . . the pope is either a 〈…〉 if hee bee a brother offending , 〈…〉 complaine of him to the church , 〈…〉 bee no brother , there 's an end 〈…〉 his father , and never after this 〈…〉 〈…〉 in a synod as apostles , doth not 〈…〉 in apostolick acts could not use sy 〈…〉 others ; . because daniel , . . 〈…〉 understood by books the num 〈…〉 lord came to jeremiah the 〈…〉 paul. cor. . . and timothi 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 , thess. . . and . the 〈…〉 , and yet ● oph●ts and apostles were immedi 〈…〉 which they ●●ote and spake . answ. . daniel ●●d the prophecie of jeremiah , and the pro 〈◊〉 the books of moses , and the apostles read the old testament , 〈◊〉 and paul read ●eathen poets , and citeth them , act. . 〈◊〉 . ti● . . . and maketh them scripture . . but the question is now , if as prophets and immediatly in●●● prophets and apostles they did so consult with scripture which they reade , as they made any thing canoni●k scripture upon 〈◊〉 medium , and formall reason , because they did read it , 〈◊〉 it out of bookes , and not because the immediate i●●piration of the holy ghost taught them , what they should 〈◊〉 canonick scripture . suppone a sentence of a ●eathen 〈◊〉 suppone this , that paul left his cloake at tro●s , not the ●●●wledge of sense , not naturall reason , not experience , none ●● these can bee a formall medium , a formall meane to make scripture but as , ( thus saith jehovah in his word ) is the formall reason why the church beleeveth the scripture to be the word ●● god , so the formall reason that maketh prophets and apostles to put downe any truth , as that which is formally canonicall scripture , whether it bee a supernaturall truth , as , the 〈◊〉 was made flesh , or a morall truth , as , children obey your 〈◊〉 , or a naturall truth , as the oxe knoweth his owner , or an experienced truth , as make not friendship with an angry 〈◊〉 a truth of heathen moralitie , as , mee are the off-spring of god , or a truth of sense , paul lest his clo●ke at t●oas , i say the 〈◊〉 , formall reason that maketh it divine and scripturall truth is the immediate inspiration of god , therefore though 〈◊〉 learned by bookes that the captivitie should indure seventi . yeares , yet his light by reading made it not formally scripture , but daniels putting it in the canon by the immediat acti●r , impulsion , and inspiration of the holy spirit ; and though matthew did read in esaiah , a virgin shall conceive and beared sonne , yet matthew maketh it not a part of the new testament , because esaiah said it , but because the holy ghost did imdiatly suggest it to him , as a divine truth : for a holy man might draw out of the old and new testament a chapter of orthodox truths , all in scripture words , and beleeve them to bee gods truth , yet that chapter should not formally bee the scriptur . of god , because though the author did write it by the light of faith , yet the propheticall and apostolicall spirit did not suggest it and inspire it to the author . i know some school● . papists have a distinction here . they say there bee some sepernaturall truths in scriptures , as predictions of things that tall out by the mediation of contingent causes , and the supernaturall mysteries of the gospell , as that achab shall bee killed in the wars , the messiah shall bee borne , &c. christ came to 〈◊〉 sinners , and those were written by the immediatly inspiring spirit : others were but historicall and naturall truths of fact , as that paul wrought miracles , that hee left his cleake at troas , and these latter are written by an inferior spirit , the assisting , not the immediatly inspiring spirit , and by this latter spirit ( say they ) much of scripture was written ; and from this assisting spirit commeth the traditions of the church ( say they ) and the decrees of popes and councells ; and this holy spirit though infallible , may and doth use disputation , consultations , councells of doctors , reading ; but wee answer that what counsells determin by an assisting spirit is not scripture , nor yet ●m-ply infallible , nor doth daniel advise with jeremialis writing what hee shall put downe as scripture , nor paul with sos●h●●●● , with timothy and silvamus , what hee shall write as canonick scripture in his epistles , for then as the decrees of the coun 〈◊〉 at jerusalem are called the decrees of the apostles and elders and this decree which commeth from the apostles and elders assem●led with one accord , and speaking with joynt suffrages from the holy ghost , v. , , , &c. v. . as collaterall authors of the decree , is the conclusion of apostles and elders ; so also should the proph●cie of daniel , at least the first two verses of the ninth chapter , bee a part of daniel , and a part of jeremi●hs prophecie , and pauls epistles to the corinthians should bee the epistle of paul and s●sthe●es , and his epistles to the colossians , and thessah●ian● , the epistles of paul , of timothy , of silvanus , whereas sosthenes , timothy , silvanus were not immediatly inspired collaterall writers of these epistles with paul , but onely joyners with him in the salutation . the erring and scandalous churches are in a hard condition , if they cannot bee edified by the power of jurisdiction in presbyteries . object . but it never or seldome in a century falleth out , that a church is to bee excommunicated , and christ hath provided lawes for things onely that fall out ordinarily . answ. it is true , wee see not how an whole church can bee formally convented , accused , excommunicated , as one or two brethren may bee , in respect all are seldome or never deserted of god to fall into an atrocious scandall , and wilful obstinacie , yet this freeth them not from the law : as suppose in a congregation of a thousand , if five hundreth bee involved in libertinisme , are they freed , because they are a multitude , from christs law ? or from some positive punishment by analogie answering to excommunication ? . the eldership of a congregation being three onely , doth not seldome scandalously offend , and are they under no power under heaven ? the people may withdraw from them saith the synod of new england , what then ? so may i withdraw from any who walketh inordinately , . thes. . . . ( ) it is not well said that christ giveth no lawes for sinnes that seldome fall out . what say you of anathema maranatha , cor. . . to bee used against an apostate from the faith , and against such as fall into the sinne against the holy ghost ? i thinke visible professors capable both of the ●nne and the censure , yet i thinke it falleth seldome out , it fell seldome but that an apostle was to bee rebuked , ha● paul then no law to rebuke peter . gal. . object . . a synod or presbytery may pr●nounce the d●●dfull sentence of non-communion against persons and churches 〈…〉 . answ. but i aske , where is the power , and institution from christ , that one private man , as hee may counsell his brother , so hee may by our brethrens grounds , pronounce this sentence . object . . one private man may not doe it , to a whole church , ●● a classicall presbytery and a synod hath more authoritie over him , then hee hath over them . answ. one private man may rebuke another , yea bee may plead with his mother the whole church , that hee liveth in , for her whoredomes , hos. . . but if hee justly plead and his mother will not heare , may hee not separate ? our brethren of new england , i thinke , shall bee his warrant to separate ; for their sixth synodicall proposition saith , the fraternitie , and people are to separate from the eldership , after they refuse wholesome counsell . now what scripture warranteth twenty to withdraw and separate , shall also warrant ten , and five , and one , for no reason that if twentie bee carelesse of their salvation in the dutie of separation , and shall not separate , that one man shall not separate ; because a multitude doth evill , i am not to doe evill with them . object . . but a synod or a classicall presbytery hath more 〈◊〉 and authoritie , then one private man , or one single congregation . . because they are a company of elders , to whom , as to the priests of the lord , whose lips should preserve knowledge , the ●●yes of knowledge , and consequently a power and synodicall authoritie is given , though they have no power of jurisdiction . . because as a private mans power is inferiour to a pastors , so is the power of classicall and synodioall meeting of elders above a man , or a single congregation ; and a synod , in dogmaticall power , ariseth so higher then these , ●● divine institution doth fall upon it . answ. the power of order and the key of knowledge doth elevate a pastor , whose lippes doth preserve knowledge , above a private christian , yea as i conceive above a multitude of beleevers ; but i would know if a synods dogmaticall power bee above the power of single congregations ; i thinke it is not , by our brethrens ●enents , for they say expresly a that every particular 〈…〉 , jus , to decide dogmaticall points , and this ●ight the church of antioch had , act. . and laboured to end that 〈…〉 in her selfe , which sheweth that they had right and ● we , but they had not habilitie , and therefore in that case , they 〈…〉 , light and advise from other churches , and they say b the c●niociation of churches into classes and synods , wee 〈◊〉 to bee lawfull , and in some cases necessary ; as namely in things 〈…〉 not peculiar to one church , but common to all . and likewise when a church is not able to end any matter , that concernes onely themselves , the● they are to seek advise & counsell from neighbour churches : hence the power of synods is only by way of counsel and advise , & a pastors advise is but an advise , & he giveth not his advise , virtute 〈◊〉 , as he is a pastor , for then his advise should bee pastorall and auth●●itative , and proceeding from the power of order , though not from the power of jurisdiction ; hee onely giveth his advise as a gifted and inlightned man , and so , to my poore knowledge , two hundreth , five hundreth holy and learned pastors determining in a synod any dogmaticall point , they sit all there not as in a court , not as pastors , for then their decrees should have pastorall authoritie , and some power formally ministeriall to determine , yea and to sway , in a ministeriall way , by power of the keyes of knowledge , all the inferiour churches , whom the decree concerneth , even as the eldership of perg●mus , which to our brethren is a congregationall church , doth decree by the dogmaticall power of the keyes of knowledge that the doctrine of balaam is a false doctrine , therefore they sit there as gifted christians , and so have no church-power more then a private brother or sister of the congregation hath toward , or over another : for though a multitude of counselling and advising friends be safer and more effectuall to give light , then a counselling friend , yet are they but a multitude of counselling friends , and the result of all counselling and advising men doth never rise higher then a counsell and advise , and can never amount to the nature of a command : as twenty sch●●●-fellowes , suppose as ●udent and wise as the twentie masters of an universitie , if these twentie schoole-fellowes give their advise and counsell 〈◊〉 a weightie businesse that concerneth the practise and obedience of all the students , the result of their counsell and advise can never bee more then an advise , and cannot amount to the same determination of the twentie masters of the universitie , the result of whose determination is a soveraigne commandement and an authoritative and judiciall decree and statute to all the whole universitie . . whereas these godly brethren say the power of synods in things which belong to particular churches is but a counsell and advise , they should have told their mind , whether or no the synod hath more then advise and counsell in things that are not peculiar to one church , but common to all the churches in that bounds , for it would seeme that a synod is a colledge of commanders in dogmaticall points , that doe equally concerne all churches ( this should have beenespoken to ) though in those things which are peculiar to each particular church , they bee but a colledge of friendly advisers and counsellers . . if a synod bee but a societie of counsellers , they have no more any authoritative power to pronounce the sentence of non-communion , against any single congregation or private man , then a private man or a single congregation hath authoritative power to pronounce that sentence against them : but . you make the synodicall power so above the power of private christians in counselling , as that this synodicall power is of divine institution , as you say , but let me aske what to doe ? to counsell and advise onely ? then that power of counselling in abigail to david , in one brother or sister to another brother and sister is of divine institution , warranted by the law of nature , levit. . . by the law of charitie , by the communion of saints , col. . . thes. . . heb. . . heb. . . mal. . . zach. . , , . for there is a divine institution , for one brother to counsell and teach another . but if our brethren give a positive power to a synod , to advise and counsell , which private christians have not , then this synodicall power shall not bee different from the power of private christians gradually onely , as a lesser power to advise differeth from a greater power , but specifically and in nature . and indeed some of our brethren teach so , though i doubt if their brethren will returne them thankes ; for this way , which to me is doubtsome . for then the members of the synod at jerusalem , seeme to mee , to bee more then counsellers , and there must bee a positive institution by our brethrens grounds to warrant a power synodicall sentially different from a church-power , and essentially above it : for wee teach that because a congregation is a part of a classicall church , and a classicall church a part of a provinciall church , that this power in congregations , presbyteries , and synods differ onely gradually , in more or lesse extention , and by the way . whereas some derive all church-power from a single congregation to presbyteries and classes , ascendendo , by ascending , others derive it from presbyteries to a congregation , descendendo , yea and some from the catholick visible church to nationall assemblies , and from nationall assemblies to provinciall synods , and from synods to presbyteries , from presbyteries to congregations ; i , with reverence of the learneder , doe here conceive , that there is no such cursory derivation to bee dreamed of ; but because the catholick visible church is the great organicall body whereof christ jesus god blessed for ever is head and king , & it is to●um integrale , therefore there is no derivation either by climbing up staires , or going downe , but jesus christ hath communicated his power to this great politicall body , and all its parts immediatly ; to a congregation hee hath given , by an immediat flux from himselfe , a politicall church power intrinsecally in it , derived from none but immediately from jesus christ , and the object of this power is those things that concerne a congregation ; and that same head and lord hath given immediatly an intrinsecall power to the presbytery , in things that are purely classicall , and that without either the intervening derivation of either a congregation that is inferior to the presbytery , by ascending , or without any derivative flux of a synodicall , nationall or catholick visible church , by descending ; and the like immediatly conveyed power politicall commeth from this glorious head to a synodicall , or nationall , or the catholick visible church , and the reason is , the very nature of the visible church which is totum integrale , a great integrall intire body , now we know that life commeth to the thighes immediatly from the soule , neither by derivation from the feet and legs , by way of ascending , nor yet from the armes , brea●s , and shoulders , by descending . i deny not but here there may bee in other considerations , some order ; as , if you aske which is t●● first church ; i answer with these distinctions of primatus , firstnesse . . the first church , by way of constitution , is a congregation , in the family of adam and e●● . . the first church , by way of divine intention , is the catholick church . hence secondly , the first church , by generation , or the order of generation , and so the lesse perfit , is a congregation , and here is an ascension still from the part to the whole , from a congregation to a presbytery , from thence to a provinciall church , from thence to a nationall , from thence to the catholick church . and the first church by way of perfection , is that catholick queen and spouse which christ is to present to the father , without sp●● or wrinkle , and all parts are for this perfect whole , all the ministery , ordinances , the dispensation of the worke of redemption , christ , his death , resurrection , intercession , &c. are for this as the end , the perfectum totum , ephes. . , . ephes. . . . . cor. . , . hence thirdly , if wee regard the order of operation ; the congregation is primum movens , and primum operans , for all the motions of the catholick-church beginneth at the inferior wheeles and at the lower spikes , if a generall councell bee to inact any thing , motions must begin at the single congregation at antioch , at jerusalem , and from thence ascend to a preshytery , and from thence a nationall church is to send their commissioners to act in a catholick councell , though if wee looke to the power it selfe , it is intrinsecally in the whole and in every part of the catholick church . the fourth distinction considerable here is , that wee are to regard either , . the order of nature , or . the order of the inhesion of this power . or . the order of time . or . of the reall derivation of 〈◊〉 power . if wee respect the order of nature , the power , by order of nature , is given by christ immediatly , first to the whole catholick church , as is proved before at length , and by this order of nat●●● inhereth first in the whole catholick church , as mans organized intire whole body is , by natures order , the first adequat and principall subject of life and the reasonable soule , not this ●● this part , but in regard of order of time , or reall derivation of 〈◊〉 , this whole power is immediatly conferred by jesus christ on the whole catholicke visible church , and to every part of it , and any reall derivation of power from one part of the catholick church to another by ascension or descension is not to bee dreamed of here . as commissioners of cities and shires have from those cities and shires who choosed them a virtuall power parliamentary , yet is it not formally a power parliamentary while the parliament receive them as formall members , and then , by law of the state , there falleth on them a formally parliamentall power : so commissioners have from their churches which sent them , onely a virtuall or radicall power , but they have never a formally synodicall power , by virtue of a divine institution , while they bee convened in christs name syn dically . it is true , the members of a generall councell derive their virtuall power to voyce , and conclude from the na●●●n●ll church that sent them to the councell , but give me leave , this is but a derived power of membership making them fit to bee incorporated in a synod , but being once incorporated , they have by their power of order , and by christs immediate institution , a power immediatly given by christ , in whose ●ames they conveene , to voyce and conclude as a formall coun●●● , and to say , it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us ; they cannot say , 〈◊〉 good to the churches that sent us . the . distinction is , that the power is considered either ●exercised ordinarily , or . occasionally . in regard of the ●●mer ordinary power is seated collaterally in the congregation and presbytery , in each according to its proportion of power , but because the power is compleater in the presby●● , which is a compleat body , and lesse compleatly in the congregation , which is lesse compleat , it is more principally seated in the presbytery ; in regard of the latter synods are the first subject of the occasionall church-power , in things which ●e in common belong to many presbyteries , or to a nationall - church . but to returne , if the synodicall power bee different in essence and nature and not gradually onely , from the counsell and advise of christians , then , first , it is not a determination that bindeth , by way of counsell and brotherly advise onely , but under some higher consideration , which is as like a church-relation of church-power , as any thing can bee , seeing here bee pastors acting as pastors ; . formally gathered in a councell ; . speaking gods word ; . by the holy ghost . but this shall bee against the church-government of new england . a . if it bee essentially different from an advise and councell and warranted by divine institution , why doe not our brethen give us scripture for it ? for if they give us act. . then can they not say that the apostles in this synod did determine and voyce as apostles by an apostolick , and immediatly inspiring spirit , for the spirit synodicall is a spirit imitable and a rule of pertually induring moralitie in all synods , and must leade us , for an apostolick spirit is not now in the world . . as they require a positive divine institution , for the frame of a presbyteriall church in power above a congregation , and will not bee satisfied with the light of nature , which upon the supposall of a spirituall government instituted by christ in a congregation which is a part , may clearely , by the hand , lead us to the inlarging of that same spirituall government in the whole , that is , to a number of consociated churches which are all interessed , as one common societie in a common government , so they must make out , for their synod endued with dogmaticall power a positive divine institution . . we desire a warrant from the word why a colledge of pastors determining by the word of god as pastors having power of order and acting in a colledge according to that power , should not bee a formall and ordinary great presbytery . . how can they , by our brethrens determination , exercise such pastorall acts out of their owne congregations towards those churches to which they have no pastorall relation , virtute potestatis ordinis ? . how can the wisedome of christ , ( who provideth that his servants bee not despised , but that despisers in a church way should bee censured , tim. . , . ) cloth his messengers in a synod with a power dogmaticall and deny all power of i●●●diction to them , upon the supposall that their determinations be rejected ? i feare there bee something under this , that none are to bee censured or delivered to satan for heterodox opinions , except they erre in points fundamentall . but farther it may bee made good that a power dogmaticall is not different in nature from a power of jurisdiction , for we read not of any societie that hath power to meet to make lawes and decrees , which have not power also to backe their decrees with punishments : if the jewish synedry might meet to declare judicially what was gods law , in point of conscience , and what not , and to tie men to it , they had power to conveene and make lawes , farre more may they punish contraveners of the law , for a nomothetick power in a societie which is the greater power and is in the fountaine , must presuppose in the societie the lesse power , which is to punish , and the power of punishing is in the inferior judicature , so a nomothetick power ministeriall cannot want a power of censuring . it is true , a single pastor may ministerially give out commandements in the authoritie of christ , but hee cannot his alone censure or excommunicate the contraveners of those commandements , but it followeth well in an assembly hee hath power to censure and excommunicate , now here pastors and elders are in an assembly . it is objected ; pastors in a synod have no jurisdiction as pasters ; for what they doe as pastors that they may doe there alone , and on ; of a synod : but they doe not , nor cannot determine and give out canons there alone , and they cannot there alone determine juridically ; therefore they doe not wholly and poorely as pastors in relation to those churches , give out these decrees , yet doe they not give out the decrees as privite men wholly , but in some pastor all relation , for pastors as pastors have something peculiar to them in all churches whither they come to preach so as a speciall blessing followeth on their labours , though they be not pastors in relation to all the churches they come to , even as a sermon on the lords day is instamped with a more speciall blessing b●●●use of gods institution imprinted on the day , then a sermon preached in another day . answ. this argument is much for us , it is proper to acts of jurisdiction ecclesiasticall that they cannot bee exercised by one onely , but must bee exercised by a societie , now a pastor as a pastor his alone without any collaterally joyned with him exerciseth his pastorall acts of preaching and of administrating the sacraments , but those who give out those decrees , cannot give them out synodically , but in a synod and court-wayes as forensicall decrees , and so in a juridicall way , and because pastors , whither so ever they come , doe remaine pastors . . the apostles are not in this synod as apostles , secondly , nor yet as gifted christians to give their counsell and advise ; nor , thirdly ( as this answerer granteth ) meerely as pastors , then it must follow that , fourthly , they are here as such pastors conveened synodically , by divine institution , and that this is the patterne of a synod . object . . but there is no censuring of persons for scandalls in this meeting , because there is nothing here but a doctrinall declaration of the falsehood of their opinion who taught a necessitie of circumcision ; and that all is done by way of doctrine and by power of the keyes of knowledge , not of jurisdiction , is cleare from the end of this meeting , act. . . paul and barnabas were sent from the church of antioc● unto jerusalem unto the apostles and elders , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , concerning this question , and v. . the apostles and elders came together to consider , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of this matter , consideration of questions being the end of the synod is a thing belonging to doctrinal power meerely , so mr. mather . answ. . it is false that there is no censuring of persons here , for to say nothing that peter accuseth those of the wrong side as personally present at the synod , either being summoned or comming thither by appeale , v. . now therefore why tempt ye god to put a yoake upon the necke of the discip'es , &c. which reproofe comming from one man onely , cannot be called a synodicall reproofe ; it is more then evident that the publick synodicall censure of rebuke is put upon those who held and urged the necessitie of circumcision , and why not excommunication also in case of obstinacy ? for the synodicall censure of a publick synodicall rebuke is onely gradually different , not specifically from excommunication and both must proceed from one and the same power ? now the synodicall censure is evident in the text , v. . certaine went out from us , ( so it is cleare they pretended they were in this point followers of the apostles ) and lorinus thinketh that some deemed them schismaticks . . they have troubled you with words ; lorinus citeth the sy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vedalacachum , they have terrified you , as if your salvation were not sure , except you keepe moses his law of ceremonies and the morall law. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , destraying by false arguments your soules , it is a word contrary to building up in sound knowledge ( as aristotle taketh the word ) saying that you must bee circumcised and keepe the law. . they abused the name of the apostles as having an apostolick commandement , and so a divine warrant for their false doctrine , and therefore are they refuted as liars , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whence it is cleare they did labour to prove a necessitie of circumcision not onely from the old testament and an expresse divine law , but also from the authoritie of the apostles , which was manifestly false ; out of which i argue thus . if the apostles doe not onely in a doctrinall way refute a false doctrine in this synod , but also in a church-way , and by a juridicall power rebuke and synodically charge the authors , as sub●erters of soules , and liars , then they doe not onely use a meere doctrinall power in this synod , but also a juridicall power : but the former is true : ergo , so is the latter . . observe two things in these obtruders of circumcision . first , the error of their judgement . it is more then apparent , that they had a heterodox and erroneous opinion of god and his worship , and the way of salvation , as is cleare , act. . . and certaine men which came downe from judea , taught the brethren , ( and said ) except yee bee circumcised after the manner of moses , yee cannot bee saved . this doctrine is clearely refuted both by peter v. . that yoake of the law wee disclaime , there is a way of salvation without that yoake , v. . but wee beleeve that through the grace of the lord jesus , wee shall bee saved as they , and it is synodically refuted , v. . wee gave no such commandement , it is not the mind of us the apostles of the lord that you keepe moses law , as you hope to bee saved ; there was for this error in their judgement required a doctrinall or dogmaticall power , and this the synod used . . besides this erroneous opinion in their judgement , there was another fault and scandall that the synod was to censure , to wit , their obtruding of their false way upon the soules and consciences of the churches , as vers . they taught the brethren this false doctrine . . that they wilfully and obstinately did hold this opinion , and raised a schisme in the courch , v. . wherefore paul and barnabas had no small 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dissention , ( the word signifieth sedition which was raised by those who held that erroneous opinion ) and great disputation with them . . they laid a yoake upon the brethren , v. . and v. . they made great disputation against the apostles , and v. . they troubled the brethren and perverted their soules . this was not simply an heterodox opinion which is the materiall part of a heresie , but had something of the formall part of an heresie , to wit , some degrees of pertinacie , of brutish and blind zeale , even to the troubling and perverting of the soules of the churches , while as they would make disciples to themselves , and lead away soules from the simplicitie of the gospell ; now the synod doth not helpe this latter simply , in a synodicall way , by a dogmaticall and doctrinall power , but by an authoritie synodicall , and therefore they authoritatively rebuke them , as subverters of soules ; and whereas these teachers laid on an unjust yoake to keepe moses his law upon the churches , v. . the synod by their ecclesiasticall and juridicall authoritie doth free the churches of that yoake , and they say in their decree . v. . it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us , ( not to lay the yoake of moses his law on you , as those who trouble you have done ) to lay upon you no greater burden , then these necessary things , &c. now if there had beene nothing to doe but to resolve the question , if this had beene the totall and adequat end of the synod , in a meere doctrinall way to resolve the question , whether must wee bee circumcised , and keepe the law morall and ceremoniall of moses , upon necessitie of salvation , as the argument of our brethren contendeth ; peter , v. . . made a cleare issue of the question , we are saved by the grace of god , both ●●nes and gentiles , and it is to tempt god to lay the yoake of the law of moses upon the brethren ; the resolving of that question is the end of the synod , but not the adequat end , for here that , not onely the doctrinall power was to bee used , but beside that , . the schisme was to bee removed , and the authoritie of the synod to bee used against the wilfulnesse and obstinacie of those obtruders of circumcision , in rebuking them as perverters of soules . . for the scandall which might have been taken if the gentiles should have eaten blood and things strangled , and meats offered to idols , and therefore the apostles and elders behoved , as a conveened synod to forbid a grievous scandall and a spirituall homicide against the law of nature , to wit , that the gentiles for feare of scandalizing weake . beleevers amongst the jewes , should abstaine from the practise of some things at this time meerely indifferent in their nature , though not indifferent in their use , such as were to eate things offered to idols , things strangled and blood : and whereas our brethren , . object , if the apostles did any thing more then might have been done by private pastors out of a synod , it was meerely apostolicall , and the elders did but assent to the apostles apostolicall determination ; and every one did here , apostles , elders , and brethren , more suo , apostles as apostles , elders and brethren as elders and brethren , after their manner as consenters to the apostles , but other wayes it is a begging of the question , for to say the apostles and elders , rebuked synodically the obtruders of circumcision , it s but said , because one pastor might have rebuked those obtruders ; for the specification of actions must not bee taken from their efficient causes , but from their formall objects , therefore this is no good consequence , the synod rebuked those obtruders , ergo , the synod rebuked them as a synod , and by a power of jurisdiction , it followeth not , for paul , gal. . rebuked peter ; ergo , paul had a power of jurisdiction over peter . i thinke your selves will deny this consequence . i answer , . these two answers are contradictory , and sheweth that our brethren are not true to their owne principles , for sometime they say the apostles gave out this decree as apostles , and sometime there is nothing here done by a meere doctrinall power , such as paul had over peter , or one single pastor hath over another , now it is sure that paul had no apostolick , power over peter , and that one pastor have not apostolick power over another . . when our brethren say here that the apostles as apostles by an infallible spirit gave out this decree , they doe in this helpe the papists , as bellarmine , becanus , gr●●rut , and in particular the jesuit a lorinus , who saith , decr●um authenticum cujus inspirator spiritus sanct● , and so saith b cornelius a lapide , visi●m est nob is inspiratis & decretis a spiritu sanctus , therefore saith hee the councell cannot erre , and so c salmeron and d cajetan say , and expresly e stapleton saith this apostosack definition flowed from the instinct of the holy ghost ; observandum ( saith stapleton ) quanta habenda sit ecclesiae definienth authorit●s ; hence our brether here must yeeld either that all synods are infallible , as papists say , this synod the patterne of all synods being concluded by an apostolick spirit could not erre , and so neither can councells erre , or they must with socinians and arminians say there is no warrant for synods here at all . and certainly though wee judge our brethren as farre from popery and socinianisme , as they thinke wee detest anti-christian presbytery , yet if this synod bee concluded by an apostolick spirit , it is no warrant to bee imitated by the churches , and wee have no ground hence , for lawfull synods . whittakerus , calvin , beza , luther , and all our divines do all alledge this place as a pregnant ground not of apostolick , but of ordinary and constant synods to the end of the world ; and f diodatus , good to the holy ghost ) because they did treat of ecclesiasticall reders concerning the quietnes and order of the church , wherein ecclesiasticall authoritie hath place , the assembly used this tearme , it seemed good to us , which is not used , neither in articles of faith , nor in the commandements which meerely concerned the conscience : and to shew that authoritie was with holy reason and wisedome , there is added , and to the holy ghost , who guided the apostles in these outward things also , . cer. . . . . if our brethren meane that the elders and brethren were in this apostolick and immediatly inspired synodicall determination , not as collaterall penners of scriptures joyned with the apostles , but onely as consenters and as consenters by power of an ordinary holy ghost working consent in them , more suo , according to their capacitie as ordinary elders . . they yet more helpe the papists because they must say onely apostles , and so onely their successors ; the prelates had definitive voices in this synod , the presbyters and brethren did no more then papists and prelates say presbyters did in generall councells of old , and therefore the presbyter is to subscribe , ego , a. n. presbyter consentiens subseribo , whereas the prelate subscribed ( say they ) ego , a. b. episcopus definiens subscribo ; wee crave a warrant in gods word to make an apostle or a prelate a synodicall definer , having a definitive voyce , and the elder brother , or presbyter to have a consultative voyce , for here all the multitude ( if there was a multitude present ) doe make synodicall decrees by consulting and consenting , yea all the nation may come to a nationall synod , and both reason , dispute , and consent , because matters of doctrine and government of the church concerneth all , therefore all have an interest of presence , and all have an interest of reasoning ; and . by consequent all have an interest of consenting ; yea of protesting on the contrary , if the synod determine any thing against the word of god. if they say there is a threeford consent in this synod , . an apostolicall , . a second synodicall agreeing to elders as elders , and a third , that of the people , or a popular ; what a mixt synod shall this be ? but . then as the epistle to the tlxssalonians is called the epistle of paul , not the epistle of silvanus and timotheus , though silvanus and timotheus did consent , so these ( dogmata ) or decrees should not be called the decrees of the apostles and elders , as they are called , act. . . act. . . act. . . but onely the decrees of the apostles ; seeing the elders did onely consent , and had no definitive influence in making the decree , by this doctrine , as silvanus and timotheus were not joynt pen-men of scripture with paul. . when as it is said the specification of actions must not bee taken from the efficient cause , but from the formall object , and all that a done in this synod might have beene done by a single pastor . i answer , wee doe not fetch the specification of this rebuke and of these decrees from the efficient causes , but from the formall object , for an apostle might his alone have rebuked these obtruders of circumcision , and made this decree materialiter , for paul did , more his alone then this , when hee wrote the e●istle to the romans , but yet one pastor could not have synodically rebuked , and given out a decree formally synodicall , laying an ecclesiasticall tie on moe churches then one , there is great ods to doe one and the same action formally , and to doe the same action materially , and i beleeve though actions have not , by good logick , their totall specification from their efficient cause , yet that ordinances of god as lawfull have their specification from the efficient causes in part our brethren cannot deny . for what made the difference betwixt aaron his fire offered to the lord , and nadab and abihu their strange and unlawfull fire , that they offered to the lord , but that the on fire had god for its author , the other had men , and the like i say of gods feasts , and the feasts devised by jeroboam , else if a woman preach and administrate the lords supper in the church , that preaching and sacrament administrated by her should not have a different specification and essence , if wee speake morally or theologically , from that same very preaching and celebration of the supper performed in the church by a lawfull pastor ; it is ( as i conceive ) of the essence of an action synodicall ( i say not its totall essence ) that it cannot bee performed by one in a church-way , and with an ecclesiasticall tie , but it must be performed by many , else it is not a synodicall action , and it is true that paul , rom. . and cor. . . hath in substance the same canon forbidding scandall , which is forbidden in this canon prohibiting eating of meats offered to idolls , and blood , in the case of scandall ; but ( i pray you ) is there not difference betwixt the one prohibition and the other ? yea there is , for , rom. . cor. . . it hath undenyably apostolick authoritie , here it hath onely synodicall . . there it is a commandement of god , here it is a canon of the church . . there it commeth from one man , here from a colledge of apostles and elders conveened , and yet materially it is the same prohibition . object . . the acts of this synod are finaliter acts of government , because they are rules conducing for the governing of the church , but formaliter , they are acts of dogmaticall power , and not formally acts of jurisdiction , for there is no rebuking of subverters of soules inordine to excommunication , no penall power is exercised here , sub poona , under the paine of excommunication , and therefore there an here no formall acts of government . answ. . the acts of church-government finaliter , that is , government , because to prescribe rules and directive lawes ( for they are not properly lawes which the church prescribeth , christ is the onely law-giver ) are formall acts of governing , and one power doth not make lawes for governing the church , and another power different in nature punish the contraveners . and what power disposeth and ordereth , the meanes doe also dispose and order the end ; canons of the church tending to the edification of the church are meanes tending to the government of the church , and i appeale to the judgement of our reverend brethren , if wee suppose that one single congregation should doe all that this synod doth , if they would not call it a formall governing of that particular congregation : for example , in the church of pergamus , one ariseth and teacheth the doctrine of the nicolaitans , suppose that fornication is indifferent is the eating of blood , and is no sinne ; the angels of the church of pergamus preach against this doctrine , in private , they deale by force of arguments from scripture , that it is a wicked doctrine , and destructive to holinesse , as paul and barnab as disputeth , act. . . . with the obtruders of a necessitie of circumcision , yet they prevaile not , now suppose this independent church following the apostle pauls way , thinke good to convene a synod or a parishionall assembly to determine synodically that this is a wicked doctrine , and shall in their decree call the holders of this doctrine subverters of soules , and forbid fornication in their synod , now supposing pergamus to be a single church in a remote iland consociated with no neighbouring churches , who could in reason deny that this synodicall power so inacting were a power formally governing the church of . pergamus ? it is true , some of our brethren say , that it is even to us a received tenent that the power that disposeth of the meanes of governing doth not for that governe in respect that we teach that the classicall presbytery doth decree and in act , and the congregation doth execute these decreed , but i pray you doth this prove that the power ordering the meanes of governing is no formall act of governing ? yea the contrary is true , because the congregation executing the acts of the classicall presbytery , as subordinat in that act to the classicall presbytery , & by their authority , therfore while they give out these acts or canons , doe formally governe , that congregation executing their acts , in this particular . mr. mather and mr. thomson against mr. herle , c. . p. . teach that there is a power of clearing truth dogmatically , and that 〈◊〉 ‑ 〈◊〉 , ultimately , where the controversie is ended , but they will have this ultimate power not in a synod onely , but also in a congregation . but . they seeme to make this dogmaticall power a church-power , and the exercise thereof formally an act of church-government , and so it must bee church-power and church-government in the synod , as well as in the congregation . . the last period and conclusion of the controversie cannot bee both in the congregation , de jure , by right onely , and in the synod by right onely , for two last powers cannot bee properly in two subordinate judicatures , for if antioch appeale to a synod , as they doc , act. . . then antioch is not the sole , last and ultimate and finall judge ; and . if the controversie concerne many churches , as this doth , act. . . . . i see not how a congregation , except they transgresse their line , can finally determine it . and here while as our brethren doe all edge that a synod hath a power to decree , and make lawes , but hath no power at all to execute these lawes or to punish the contraveners , but power of punishing is all in the single congregation . ● . they tie all governing power to a punishing power , as if there were no other wayes to governe , but upon supposall of scandalls , whereas all scripture and polliticians make a power of giving lawes formally a governing power . . when one societie and synod maketh the lawes , and another must execute them and punish the contraveners , the single congregation that punisheth , is more subjected by a truely prelaticall bondage , then if the law-makers had onely the power of punishing the contraveners , at they onely have the power of making the lawes . i take not here lawes for lawes properly so called , but for ministeriall directories having ecclesiasticall authoritie : and here in effect , our brethren lay truely a prelaticall bondage on the churches of christ , for they teach that a synod may make a law by a pastorall power , and that this synod is an ordinance of christ by act. . and that as prelates did , they send those synodic●ll decrees to bee obeyed and put in execution by the churches , and ordaine the contraveners to bee punished by the churches , and here is a power above a power , and mandates for government sent by the synod to the churches to bee obeyed , and a synod governing by churches , this they call prelaticall in us . but . there is no penall power here ( say they ) and nothing decerved to bee obeyed , sub paena , under the paine of excommunication , therefore no power of jurisdiction . but this consequence is justly denyed , for no politician , no reason in the world can say that all power of jurisdiction is included in the power of excommunication . what ? hath the church a church-power to threaten , and no church-power to pardon the penltent ? i think if the church as the church , matth. . receive a power from christ to bind in heaven and earth , doth not christ in that same patent give to her also a power to loose in earth and heaven ? and when hee saith , if bee refuse to beare the church , let him be to thee ● aube●hen and publican ; doth hee not give to the church a power to command ? if hee command to heare and obey the church , hee must give a power of jurisdiction to the church to command , and a power to command not penall onely , but promissorie also , to loose and absolve upon condition of prosessed repentance . now suppose the church make a law , that theresurrection of the dead is a truth of god to bee beleeved , and professed , upon occasion that in the congregation hymeneus & alexander den yeth that article , in that very commandement doctrinall the church doth governe the whole congregation , and exerciseth a power of formall governing , though in their act they say nothing of the censure of excommunication , to those who shall deny that article of the resurrection , for ( i hope ) a simple sanction maketh a law , though no penaltie bee expressed in it , and though there had beene in the decree , act . . an expresse punishment , this should , to our brethren prove no power of jurisdiction exercised by many , for this which is said , gal. . . though wee or an angel from heaven preach unto you ( another gospel ) then that which wee have preached let him bee accursed , and that cor. . . woe unto mee if i preach not the gospel , and many other threatnings in scripture , though a punishment bee annexed expressely , cease not to bee meerely doctrinall , and are not threatnings importing formally any power of church-jurisdiction , and therefore though mention should have beene made of a censure , if there bee not here a synod . . having power and authoritie from christ. . commanding by the holy ghost , ( as these indeed are all here ) the name of censure should prove no power of jurisdiction . object . . the laying on of the yoake spoken of , v. . is a meer● , doctrinall yoake , and it importeth no more a poner of jurisdiction , then we can conclude that the obtruders of circumcision bad a power of jurisdiction , because they are said to lay on a yoake also , and to tempt god in so doing , vers . . answ. i retort this reason , for we can then no more conclude that the apostles by an apostolick authoritie layd on this yoake , then wee can conclude that the obtruders of circumcision did lay on this yoake , because they are said to lay on a yoake and to tempt god , v. . it is a most unequall reasoning to argue against a iust synodicall power from a sinfull and unjust power , for these obtruders of circumcision had no lawfull power at all to lay a yoake on the disciples , but sinned and tempted god in laying on that yoake , but it is not denyed by our brethren , but the apostles and elders had a lawfull power to lay on a yoake in this synod , onely it is controverted whether it bee a meere dogmaticall or doctrinall power , or if it bee a power of jurisdiction , nay the obtruders of circumcision by neither of these two powers layd on a yoake upon the dsciples . object . . these decrees which did no other wayes bind the church of jerusalem , then they did bind all the churches of the world , cannot bee decrees of power of jurisdiction over the church of jerusalem , and over the church of antioch . but these decrees did no otherwise bind the church of jerusalem , then they did bind all the churches of the world , for the decrees of apostles and elders at jerusalem , act. . , . were sent to all the churches of the world to bee observed , and seeing they could not as synodicall canons obliege all the churches of the world , by an ecclesiasticall tie , because all the churches of the world sent not commissioners , and all the churches of the world couldnot be represented in this synod , but onely the churches of jerusalem and antioch ; yea wee see not that this synod is any more then the church of antioch seeking counsell from the sister church at jerusalem ; as one church may advise another church that is weaker in knowledge , in a matter of such difficultie , because the apostles were at ierusalem , and that 〈◊〉 . . the whole canons are ascribed to the church of jerusalem onely , to the apostles , elders and the whole church , act. . . and act. . . and act. . , . and act. . . the elders of jerusalem take this act or canon to themselves . . it cannot be proven that the churches of syria and cilicia had any commissioners he●● , farre lesse had all the churches of the gentiles , who yet are commanded to keepe those decrees by commissioners there , c. . . act. . . act. . , . . it cannot bee proven that antioch sent elders to this meeting , but onely commissioners , act. . . answ. this answer is much contradicent to what our brethren other waies hold , for if it be a patterne of a sister church , giving advise and counsell to another , this is imitable to the worlds end , and if the canon come from the apostles as apostles it is not imitable . . that one sister church can lay burdens on another , and give out 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , decrees to bee kept is unwarrantable ; now 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as they are called by all that understandeth greeke , are not friendly advises of brethren ; the seventie interpreters use the word , daniel . . to expresse a law made by darius , luke useth the word , c. . . saith a decree 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 came from augustus caesar to taxe all the world. . it is a graver businesse then we can thinke of , to beleeve that these who onely give advise and counsell , and must conveene in a synod , as apostles and elders doe here , v. . ( ) that they can say as it is v. . it seemed good to the holy ghost and to us to lay no other burden on you then t●●se necessary things , for a counsell or advise can never amount to the burden imposed by the holy ghost speaking in a synod : . it is denied that this decree oblieged the church of jerusalem no other way then it oblieged all the churches of all the world , for here bee three sorts of churches , and three sorts of churches are under a tie by this synod ; first , jerusalem , secondly , antioch , syria and cilicia , thirdly , universally all the churches of the gentiles . the church of jerusalem have formall commissioners , here under an ecclesiasticall tie as concerning the faith of the things contained in the decree , that it is lawfull for the gentiles to abstaine from things offered to idolls , from things strangled , and from blood ; and they were simply under a tie both of the seventh commandement , and by the fifth commandement , to abstaine from fornication , because the synod had forbidden it . . they were under a tie by due proportion , not to keepe the law of moses and not to bee circumcised by any necessitie of a divine law , but onely by permission to use these ceremonies for feare of scandall . . they are tied by proportion also to give no offence in things indifferent . . not to reject the gentiles whom the lord had called to his heavenly kingdome , as well as the jewes . . these churches of the gentiles who never heard of the synod , and so were not oblieged to bee there in their commissioners or not tied at all by this decree , by vertue of any ecclesiasticall tie , but are onely tied by the law of nature , not to abuse their libertie in the use of things in their owne nature indifferent , and so this is false that the church of jerusalem was tied no other way by these acts then all churches of the world , for some of the churches of the world were not tied at all , by any ecclesiasticall bond , but onely for the necessitie of the law of nature . . jerusalem , antioch , syria and cilicia were tied by an ecclesiasticall tie , because jerusalem and the churches of antioch had here commissioners , for antioch sent paul and barnabas with certaine other of them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this must relate to pastors and elders , if syria and cilicia had no commissioners here , as certainly they were oblieged to send commissioners , as well as antioch , seeing their case was one with antioch , v. . and they could not but heare of this apostolick remedie to remove the scandall of false doctrine , and therefore their commissioners were either here , or then they were oblieged to bee here , and here wee have the true essence of a synod , to wit , a meeting of the churches of antioch and jerusalem at jerusalem to determine of this question . but that the church of jerusalem did not determine all the businesse in a presbyteriall way , and that others had hand in it , is cleare . . because paul and barnabas and others with them are expresly sent from antioch to jerusalem as commissioners and elders , and here they reason and voyce , as is cleare , ch . . v. . v. . v. . ch . . . ch . . , . and the acts and decrees are ascribed to all the apostles and elders who were present at the councell , ch . . . ch . . v. . v. . and amongst these were paul and barnabas , with certaine others sent from anti●b , act. . . and the elders of jerusalem , act. . . with the apostles , act. . . ( . ) the reasons alledged are false , for act. . . act. . . act. . . the acts and synodicall decrees are not ascribed to elders of jerusalem onely , but to the apostles who were not elders at jerusalem , and to the elders in jerusalem , act. . . not of jerusalem . . it is no matter though it cannot bee proven that the churches of syria and cilicis had no commissioners there , for first , the contrary cannot bee proven ; secondly , they ought to have had commissioners here ; thirdly , the acts are sent to them conjunctly with antioch , and messengers to report the mind and sense of the assembly as to antioch , v. . ( . ) it is but a groundlesse conceit to say that paul and barnabas came to the synod as commissio●●●s , or as servants to receive information , not as elders to give their decisive voices , because paul carried himselfe in the assembly as peter and james who were elders in the assembly , and they being apostles , the decrees are ascribed to the apostles without any distinction , act. . . act. . . and if paul and barnabas , and silas a prophet of the church at antioch , act. . v. . with judas , v. . also a prophet , had beene onely commissioners and servants of the church at antioch , and not elders and members of the assembly , how could they have voices in the church or congregation of jerusalem ? for the messengers of one congregation hath not place to voyce in another congregation . . it is said expressely , it seemed good to the apostles and elders , with the whole church to send chosen men of their owne , with paul and barnabas , namely , judas surnamed barsabas , and silas , chiefe men , ( leading men ) amongst the brethren ; now i desire to bee resolved in two ; . how judas and silas were men of their owne company 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , certainly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must relate to the assembly , to wit , to elders and apostles , by all good grammar , and how are they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , captaines and leading men amongst the brethren , which brethren are certainly these mentioned in the same verse , apostles , elders , and the whole church , and these mentioned in the next verse , . apostles , elders and brethren , that is , chosen men of this assembly ; now it is evident that judas and silas were no part of elders of the church of jerusalem , but prophets at antiab , v. . and members of that presbytery spoken of act. . , . and act. . v. . and what power then had the assembly to send them , and especially what power had the eldership or presbytery of jerusalem to send men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of their owne company who were not men of their owne company ? therefore they were called chosen men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of their owne company , and leading men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the brethren , because they were members of the assembly , and of that councell gathered together with one accord , v. . and not because they were naked messengers of the church of antioch , but elders , prophets , v. . and members of the assembly , v. . . and when as it is said act. . . act. . . these decrees are ascribed to the elders in jerusalem . i answer they are not called the elders of the church of jerusalem , as revel . . . to the angel of the church of ephesus , v. . to the angel of the church of smyrna , and v. . of the church of pergamus , and v. . and act. . . but the eders which were at jerusalem assembled : and this doth no more prove that all these elders were onely the elders of the church at jerusalem , then it proveth that the apostles were the apostles of the church at ierusalem which no man can say : yea by the phrase of scripture used in other places , it is cleare they were not the elders of the church of jerusalem ; and for act. . . the elders of the church of jerusalem taketh those decrees upon them , not as if they made the whole synod , but because they were a considerable part of the synod , for it is cleare from the story , act. . that the apostles and others were members of that assembly , and therefore , that v. . wee have written and concluded , &c. must bee expounded , wee as a part of the synod , have written , &c. and it is a synecdoche , and the pronoune 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( wee ) includeth no apostle but james , whereas peter , paul , barnabas , iudas , sil●s and others elders and brethren were members of the synod , yea and ( as our brethren say , though to mee it is not probable ) the whole church of ierusalem from v. . c. . object . . they take away the scandall in a doctrinall way only , declaring that they ought to abstaine from things scandalous . answ. the very delivering to satan may thus bee called doctrinall , because it is a declaration that the mans sinnes are retained in heaven , yet it is an authoritative declaration , and if it bee meere doctrinall , one pastor and one prophet might have done all which this venerable colledge of apostles and elders disputed , reasoned , and concluded synodically . a meere doctrinall power layeth not on burdens and decrees . herodian calleth such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 senatusconsult●in , and bude●●s a man excellently skilfull in the greeke language saith the like of it , and so doth the civill law make it a statute of the senate . object . . the reason why patel could not , though hee was an apostle , determine this at antioch , was not because hee wanted apostolick authoritie , but because his apostolick power was more questionable , hee not having seene christ in the flesh , nor being a witnesse of the life , death and resurrection of christ , then the authoritie of james and peter who wer● eye-witnesses of christs life , doctrine , and sufferings , and saw him visibly ascend to heaven , and the believers doubted if hee was an apostle , and the synod was convened to have theresolution of the apostles , and so it was meerely apostolicall . ans. though i grant there beesome truth in this , that pauls apostolick calling was now more question 〈◊〉 , then the rest of the apostles ; and i easily yeeld that these who disputed with him could not rest upon his authority ; yet i deny that hence wee can inferre no synod : for if the apostles had convened in synod to satisfie those who doubted of pauls authoritie as an apostle ; then they would have reterred the matter to james and peter , who to these beleevers were undoubtedly the apostles of the lord : but if the apostles had had no intent , but to end the controversie in a mere apostolick way , and not intended a synodicall and an ●clesiasticall and perpetuall remedy in such cases of controversies , in particular churches ; i shall not beleeve that the apostles when they were to determine by a superior , an apostolick and infallible light , they would have joyned with them the elders , as act. . . to consider of the question , and that the church of au●ioch doubting if paul was an apostle , would have decreed to seeke a resolution from elders , and that in an apostolick way , for they sent to the elders at jerusalem for a resolution as well as to the apostles , act. . . and judge yee if the apostles being to determine infallibly as apostles , would joyne the falliblo and inferiour light of elders , v. . and brethren , v. . if tlloy had not had a mind to determine the question in a synodicall way . object . . but it is not cleare that in this act they either censure persons , or doe any thing in order to church-censure , but onely exercise a naked doctrinall power . answ. a doctrinall power was in a higher measure in the apostles , then in all the elders of the world , who were all but fallible men , and james and peter to these beleevers , who moved the question , were undenyably apostles , and what doctrinall power could they seeke in the elders to whose determination , by intention both of antioch , ch . . . and by the apostles intention , v. . the question is referred as well as to the apostles ? if the matter was not to bee ended by a formall synod . . nor can they deny a power of jurisdiction though there were no persons rebuked and censured in this synod ; for the object of a juridicall power is not onely persons , but things of order , decencie , circumstances , questions of doctrine , as is cleare , re●el . . . . & officers to be ordained , act. . , , , . tim. . . tim. . , . ( . ) our brethren cannot deny but the sentence of non-communion is a censure , and a great one , yea and of kindred and blood most neare to excommunication , and that if any churches should have ref●●sed those canons , by this canon the churches might have pronounced the sentence of non-communion against them , and to pronounce this sentence is an act of government as properly so called , as to pronounce the sentence of excommunication , for it is the formall halfe of the sentence of excommunication . object . . it seemeth that apostles here determine as apostles , for they condenme the obtruders of circumcision , because they taught these things without any apostolick , commandement , v. . they teach that you must bee circumcised and keepe the law , to whom , wee , ( the apostles ) gave no such commandement . answ. this is no more a good argument to prove that the obtruders of circumcision did teach false doctrine , and were not condemned by the apostles and elders synodically , then if one should say , this is not a synodicall decree of the church , because it is proven and made good by the word of god , for synodicall decrees exclude not gods word , though they bee not formally scripture ; for in some part of the epistle the apostles may well speak of themselves as distinguished from elders and as apostles , and yet the assembly is an ordinary synod and not an apostolick meeting , for if wee should argue thus , the whole church , men and women , v. . sent messengers to antioch , as the church , and not as apostles , our brethren would thinke it a weake consequence to inferre , ergo , this was nothing but a congregational , not an apostolical meeting . yet our brethren contend that the whole church and single congregation of ierusalem did concurre in this meeting as consenters , and having power also , though not of jurisdiction ; but i wonder why our brethren should so contend that there was no power of censuring put forth in this assembly , seeing one of their speciall answers , whereby they would prove that this it not a patterne of an ordinary synod , and such a synod as wee contend for , having power of jurisdiction is , that this was an ordinary meeting of the elders and church of ierusalem , giving counsell and advise with the apostles to the church of antioch , but i am sure the businesse of not scandalizing did as much concerne the church of ierusalem , and therefore in the synod they ought to put forth power of jurisdiction , if any of their members , hearing that the apostles contended that the ceremoniall law did not lay a tie on the conscience of either jew or gentile , in foro dei , before gods court , as the places cited by iames prove , v. , , . ( & peter saith expresly that god now putteth no difference betwixt iewes and gentiles , v. . but 〈◊〉 are saved through the grace of our lord iesus , v. . ) should ab ●aine from blood , to the offence of the weaker , should not this congregation all church condemne such , in ordine ad censuram , in order to excommunication ? yea the eldership and congregation of jerusalem here convened as our brethren say , should have failed in this first synod , and also the apostles with them , if they neglected to exercise juridicall power over their owne congregation in the case of scandall , and a scandall as possible to them to fall in as the gentiles , and therefore either this assembly consisting of apostles and of the particular church of ierusalem erred , which wee cannot say , or then they did exercise power in order to excommunication towards their owne church , and so there is some juridicall power put forth in this meeting . object . . though the apostles in this synod proceed by way of disputing and borrow light one from another , it followeth not th●● they goe not on here as apostles , yea though peter and paul d●e not say all the truth , nor fall upon that which is the conclusion of the assembly , as i ames doth , it doth not hinder but they are led in all these synodicull deba●e● by the infallible and apostolick spirit , because some things are revealed to one evangelist and to one prophet , which is not revealed to another ; iohn the divine saw visions and heavenly mysteries which none of the rest of the apostles saw , nor could write in their writings and canonicall epistles , yet it doth not hence follow that james , peter , jude and paul in their canonicall writings and epistles were not immediatly inspired . it is enough to make the apostles in their writings infallible apostles and immediatly inspired , if that which they write bee the infallible truth and canonick scripture , though every apostle write not all canonick truth ; now what the apostles setteth down in this synod is scripture , and the object of our faith , and written for our instruction ; so something was revealed to james which was not revealed to peter and paul in this dispute , but it followeth not , ergo , what peter and paul spake , they spake it not by immediate revelation , and what they spake is not scripture . answ. . the strength of my argument is close mistaken , for i did not argue simply from the apostles borrowing light one from another , to prove they act not here as apostles but as elders , neither did i argue simply from this , james saith more then peter doth , ergo , peter is not immediatly inspired in what hee saith : for i grant the apostles borrow ●ight from the prophets , and their writings , one saith and writeth what another saith not , and cannot write , and yet all are immediatly inspired , in what they write . but i argued thus ; when ever the apostles are consulted with to resolve a question as apostles & do conveen● synodically & intend to resorve the question if the apostles in that case , or any one of them come short of the resolution , & do not see the conclusion they intend to see , but in so sarre as they are helped on by another in a way of disputation , in that they doe not act as apostles , but the case is so here ; . all were consulted with , act. . . ( ) all intended to resolve the question , and did meet together for that end to resolve it fully , v. . ( ) yet divers of the apostles , as peter , paul and barnabas see not the resolution fully that they aimed at , but determine the question imperfectly , and so , as if iames had beene absent , or if hee had seene no more in resolving the question , then paul and barnabas and peter said , which was onely that the law of moses was not to bee kept by either iew or gentile , upon the necessitie of salvation , but that both jewes and gentiles are saved by the grace of jesus christ ; if james ( i say ) had seene no more then this , the consciences of both sides had not beene satisfied , and the question not resolved , but the jewes should have gone on in a totall abstinence from all ceremonies , which because of the indifference of the ceremonies , was then dangerously scandalous , and spirituall homicide , and the gentiles should freely have eaten blood , meates offered to idols , and things strangled , which also was scandalous in a high measure to the weake jewes , and so the matter should have beene worse after this synod , and the controversie hotter , the fire bolder , and the scandall more dangerous then it was before the synod , which i cannot beleeve that the apostles as apostles could have done ; so wee know nathan to have spoken as a man , and not as a prophet , when being consulted with by david anent the building of the temple , and purposing and intending fully to resolve the question , yet resolved it amisse and quite contrary to the mind of god ; now what the penmen of holy scripture intended to write as scripture , that they fully wrote and no more , and what they wrote not , that they intended not to write , but leave it to others of the penmen of the holy ghost , because the immediatly inspiring holy ghost consulted with and intending to resolve such a canonick truth , cannot misse in his blessed intention . and also the elders at jerusalem were consulted with to resolve the question as well as the apostles , as is cleare act. . . now if the church of antiech had beene minded to referre the resolution to the apostles as infallibles apostle , they would never have referred it to the elders , whom they knew could erre as well as themselves , nor would the elders have joyned as fellow-disputers with the apostles as apostles , as they expresly doe , v. . for that is as you would say , some countrey men of ordinary spirit destitute of all propheticall light concurred with esaiah to see the visions of god ; and it is as if david as king counsell at god , whether the men of keilah would deliver him up to saul , had consulted with god and with abiathar , and some foure or five elders of keilah voyd of all propheticall spirit , whether the men of keilah should deliver him up to saul , or no : for these elders of jerusalem and antioch and other brethren were as voyd of an apostolick spirit as the elders of keilah were of a propheticall spirit . it were a vaine action for the elders to joyne themselves as joynt-disputers and fellow-resolvers of the controversie with the apostles , for the fellow-resolvers were to seeke resolution at the apostles , who could as apostles infallibly resolve them . . what the apostles set downe is scripture , and is the object of our faith , and written for our instruction , ergo , the apostles did give it forth in the synod as scripture , it followeth not : i may preach scripture , and that which is the object of faith , and written for our instruction , ergo , i preach it as an apostle by an apostolick spirit , it followeth not ; for so if the elders had spoken scripture which is written for our instruction , the elders should have spoken it by an apostolick spirit , which is manifestly false ; and so if the elders of corinth , cor. . should have proven in their presbytery that the incestuous person should bee delivered to satan , from matth. . they should have spoken that in the presbytery by an apostolick spirit : all which are manifestly false . the holy ghost by luke did make it scripture formally , but that the apostles spake it as scripture by an apostolick spirit , because it is the object of our faith that luke did insert it in the canonicall history , is no more hence proven then one might inferre that gamaliel by the immediate inspiration of the spirit spake the oration that hee uttereth to the councell of priests and pharisees , act. . , . & c. for that is formally made scripture by luke his inserting of it in the register of scripture ; yea the words of satan , matth. . by that reason behoved to bee spoken by divine and immediate inspiration : but the truth is , wee are not to take what peter speaketh from the prophet amos , act. . v. . to bee scripture , because amos spake it in the old testament , but because luke by immediate inspiration saith that peter uttered these words from the prophet amos. immediate inspiration maketh any saying scripture , and not the apostles historicall relating of it out of the writings of the prophets , though the sayings of the prophets as they are registred in the bookes of old testament bee formally scripture , yet as cited by the apostles they d●e not become scripture , except these saying , bee cited , tali modo , that is , by the influence of the immediatly inspiring holy ghost , which influence onely maketh formally any saying to bee scripture . object . . if the apostles did not in a synod , with the elders dispute and voyce as apostles , it should follow that as apostles , they did plant churches , but after the churches were planted they ceased to bee apostles , and did all as ordinary elders , which is most incongr●o●s , for then should they descend from an infallible to a fallible spirit . answ. the apostles did onely use their apostolick power , when there was need of it ; as god worketh not miracles , but in some necessitating exigence of second causes : and what they could doe by an ordinary power , when the churches were once constituted , they did not attempt to doe by their apostolick power ; and though their apostolick power was in them as a habit , yet the exercise thereof was rather under the dominion of an extraordinary and immediate rapt and influence of god , then under the mastery of their owne free-will . i would aske why the church of antioch , no doubt most lawfully , act. . . did send to seeke resolution at the fallible spirit of elders , and also ( as our brethren teach ) at the infallible spirit of the apostles ? and why did they not from their infallible and apostolick spirit seeke out and choose seven men to bee deacons , but remitted to the fallible spirit of the multitude who are not infallible or apostolick in their choise , both the nomination and election of these seven men ; but the apostles did much honour the churches of christ in cooperating with them , and in doing most things with their consent , that by example they might interdict dominion , and assert a ministeriall power , and make christ most monarch-like in the government of his spirituall kingdome : nor did they put off , or interdict themselves , nor forfeit their apostolick power , after churches were constituted , but used their apostolick power at the commandement of that great king exalted jesus christ , whose catholick ambassadours they were , as god immediatly moved them . object . . paul exercised the power of the keyes of knowledge upon barbarians , and might have preached to indians , and did pres●h to the scefling athenians . ergo , hee might exercise power of jurisdiction over them , and judge those who are without , it is no consequence , and against the word of god , cor. . . yea paul by this power dogmaticall rebuked the athenians , act. . . i perceive that in all things yee are too superstitious , yet paul had no power to excommunicate the athenians . mr. mather . answ. i deny not , but there is great odds betwixt a concionall rebukin● , by way of preaching , which may bee , and is alwayes performed by one , and a juridicall rebuking by a power juridicall of the keyes , which is performed onely by a church-s●ci●tie : now it cannot bee denyed but the rebuking of men , because they subverted soules , v. . is not a meere concionall rebuking , which may bee performed by one ; . it is a rebuking , v. . ( ) it is a rebuking performed by many , by a whole synod , v. . v. . ( ) it is performed by a politicall societie and body having a dogmaticall power to judge and determine in a doct●inall way , as our brethren say , and consequently as wee say , having a juridicall power , v. . it seemed good unto us , being assembled with one accord , to send chosen men unto you , &c. which is undenyably a politicall body , an assembled company , as v. . met about a question which concerneth the churches of christ , as is cleare , v. . v. . v. . c. . , . c. . . compared with v. . hence a businesse of doctrine which troubleth the churches of antioch , c , . . and of jerusalem , v. , , , . and syria and cilicia , v. , . must bee a church-businesse in respect of the subject . . the question is a church-question in the matter of practise , it cono●rneth the consciences of the churches in the point of taking and giving offence , in a church-societie as this doth , v. . that yee trouble not them which amongst the gentiles are turned unto god , and v. , . compared with cor. . , , , , & c. rom. . , . this was a church-●candall or publick offence , as touching the matter , materia qu●nt . ( ) the forme and manner of deciding the controversie was a publick church-way by the word of god , act. . so 〈◊〉 proveth , v. , . . and james , v. , , &c. maketh good . ( ) the efficient causes and agents in the question , are . church - 〈◊〉 , v. . apostles and elders . . church-officers conveened church-wayes in a church-body or societie , v. . c. . and the apostles and elders came together ( in a synod , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a word which cur brethren acknowledgeth doth , cor. . . note a formall church-assembly ) to consider of this matter , and ● , . it seemed good to us being assembled with one accord , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the very word church is not wanting though with reverence of others , it seemeth not to bee the multitude , seeing the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , beeing so generall , must have its signification from the action and end , for which the meeting is intended , as before i said ) as is cleare , v. . it pleased the apostles , elders , and whole church . . the action they performe , when they are met in a politicall body , is to decide a church-controversie , that troubled many churches , act. . . v. , . ( ) the end is the peace and edifying of the churches , as that the churches of the gentiles bee not troubled with needlesse ceremonies , as james saith , v. . and the good of the churches , v. . from which if you keepe your selves , yee shall doe well , c. . . and ●s they went through the cities they delivered them the decrees to 〈◊〉 , v. . so were the churches established in the faith . consider 〈◊〉 is the happy end and fruit of this synod ; the establish●●● of the churches . therefore have our brethren without reason ( i speake with reverence of their learning and godlinese ) denied the word church to bee given to a synod , or a meeting of elders , which to mee is cleare , act. . v. . the 〈◊〉 sending is the eldership of antioch ; the church recei●●● , v. . is the eldership at jerusalem , and cannot conveniently bee exponed of the whole and numerous thousands that ●●e●ed at jerusalem ; the rebuking cannot then bee meerely ●●●●inall by the power of the keyes of knowledge which is exercised by one , nor are the apostles and elders here considered as meerely preachers and teachers in the act of teacher , for why then should they not bee formally a church and a church-assembly , as our brethren say , if they bee an assembly meeting for preaching the word ? for the exercise of the keyes of knowledge in the hearing of a multitnde is essentially an act of preaching the word . object . . this synod declares only in a doctrinall way what is necessary , what is scandalous , the same way , that paul doth , rom. . , . i cor. . cor. . answ. this synod and paul declare one and the same thing , ergo , with one and the same authoritie , it followeth not ; paul writeth , cor. . that the incestuous man should bee excommunicated , and this hee wrote as canonicall scripture , by the immediat inspiration , of the holy spirit , if then the church of corinth should have excommunicated him , shall it follow that they gave out the sentence of excomunication by the immediate inspiration of the holy spirit ? i thinke not , their churches sentence had been given out by a meere ecclesiasticall authoritie , according to the wch churches of christ to the worlds end doth excommunicate , following the church of corinth as a patterne . obj. . though these obtruders of ceremonies did pervent so●ks , v. . yet the synod doth not summond them before them , nor excommuncite them , but remit them to the particular churches to whom it properly belonged to censure , and not to any synod , or superiour judicature . answ. there was no need to summon them , for these subverters of soules were personally present at the synod , and rebuked in the face of the synod as perverters of soules , v. . for if they were not present ; . to whom doth peter speake , v. . now therefore why tempt yee god to put a yoake on the necke of the disciples , &c. the apostles and elders did not impose the yoake of moses law upon the beleeving disciples , nor any other , save onely the obtruders of circumcision . . who were they in the synod who made much disputing ? v. . note the apostles , not any save these obtruders . ergo , they were personally present at the synod , nor needed they to excommunicate them , for i judge that they acquiesced to the determination of james , which was the sentence of the synod , and the great dispute spoken of , v. . ceased , v. . and the conclusion is agreed upon , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then it seemed good to the apostles , elders and whole church , and there was reason why these obtruders should acquiesce , so that there was no need of further censure , for there was satisfactiou in part given to both siddes . the question was , whether or no are beleevers now to keepe the law and the ceremonies of moses his law ? it was answered by the synod , by a distinction which favoured , in part , both sides , . there is no necessitie that the beleeving gentiles who are saved by grace as well as the jewes bee troubled to keepe all the ceremonies , and this satisfied the apostles who taught that the gentiles were now made one people with the jewes , and both are freed in conscience from moses his yoake , the other part of the distinction it was this , yet there bee some ceremoniall commandements , as not to eate things offered to idols , blood , and things strangled , ( for fornication is of another nature , and abstinence therefrom is of perpetuall necessitie , cor. . , , , . thess. . . col. . . ) these must bee avoided , for scandals sake , by all the jewes , but especially by the gentiles , lest the weake jewes , who take these to be divine commandements yet in force , take offence , and this was satisfactorie to the obtruders , and wee heare no more of their disputing , and there is an end of the controversie by the blessed labours of a lawfull synod . . i could easily yeeld that there is no necessitie of the elicit acts of many parts of government , such , as excommunication , ordination , admitting of heathens professing the faith to church-membership , in synods provinciall , nationall or oecumenicall , but that synods in the case of neglect of presbyteriall-churches , command these particular churches whom it concerneth , to doe their dutie , and in this sense the synod , act. . is to remit the censure of excommunication to the presbytery of antioch and jerusalem , in the case of the obstinacie of these obtruders of circumcision , but so some power of government is due to the synod , as prescribing of lawes and canons for presbyteries and congregations . object . . therefore was the synagogue of the jewes no compleat church , because all the ordinances of god cannot bee performed in the synagogue , and therefore were the jewes commanded onely at jerus salem and in no other place to keepe the passeover , and to offer offerings and sacrifices , which were òrdinary worship , deut. . but there is not any worship or sacred ordinance , ( saith that a worthy divine dr. ames ) of preaching , praying , sacraments , & c. prescribed , which is not to bee observed in every congregation of the new testament : nor is there any ordinary minister appointed who is not given to some one assembly of this kind . so also b mr. mather and mr. thomson , teachers in new england . others say because there was a representative worship of sacrificing of all the . tribes at jerusalem , therefore all the synagogues were dependent churches , and jerusalem was the supreme and bighest church , but there is no representative worship in the new testament , and therefore no need of synods , as higher churches . answ. surely the aforesaid reverend brethren of new england have these words , c but it seemeth to us that the power ( of a synod ) is not proporly a power and exercise of government and jurisdiction , but a power of doctrine , and so a synod is rather a ●aching then a governing church ; from which i inferre ; . that out brethren cannot deny a power of governing to a synod , but it is not so proper governing , as excommunication and ordination performed in their congregations , but ( say i ) it is more properly governing , as to make lawes and rules of governing , is a more noble , eminent and higher act of governing ( as is evident in the king and his parliament ) then the execution of these lawes and rules . . our brethren incline to make a synod a teaching church ; but i inferre that synodicall teaching by giving out decrees tying many churches , as our brethren of d new england , and the forenamed e authors teach , is an ordinance of christ that can bee performed in no single congregation on earth , for a doctrinall canon of one congregation can lay no ecclesiasticall tie upon many churches . ergo , by this reason our congregations shall bee dependent , as were the jewish synagogues . . with favour of these learned men it is a begging of the question to make jerusalem the supreme church , and the synagogues dependent churches , because it was lawfull onely at jerusalem to sacrifice , for i hold that jerusalem was a dependent church no lesse then the smallest synagogue in all the tribes , for in a catholick meeting of all judah for renewing a covenant with god , ierusalem was but a sister church , with all of iudah , benjamin , ephraim , manasseh , who chron. . . . , . made up one great church which did sweare that covenant . ordinances doe not formally make churches visible , nor divers ordinances divers churches ; profession of the truth formally constituteth a visible church , and church union in ordinances and government , and this was alike in the synagogues and in ierusalem . it was a thing meerely typicall that at ierusalem onely , and in the temple onely should there bee offerings and sacrifices , because in christ god-man , all our worship and service and prayers are accepted of the father , but ( i pray you ) did this instampe ierusalem with any note of church-supremacy above the meanest synagogue in all israel and iudah ? i see it not , all the synagogues and all the land were members of the nationall church , and every one a member of his owne synagogue , the persons processing the truth and dwelling at ierusalem had no supremacie over the synagogues , because they did inhabit that typicall place , but the priests and levites were indeed servants to all the land , in offering sacrifices , and in governing in the synedry either the greater , or the lesse , but these professors who did constitute the visible church at ierusalem had no church supremacie at all for their relation to the temple , their cohabitation or bodily contiguitie was no church-relation then or now ; and that these of the synagogues behooved to worship in some solemne acts onely at ierusalem , did no more give supremacie to the inhabitants of ierusalem to bee a church over them , then the synagogues could claime supremacie over the inhabitants of ierusalem , for the inhabitants of ierusalem were tied to worship there , and in no other place , and to stand to the determinntion of the great synodrie without appeale , because there was not a catholick visible church in the world but the church of the iewes ; and this argument with as great force of reason might conclude that all the cities and incorporations of england are in government dependent and subordinate to london and the suburbs , because they are subordinate to the honorable houses of parliament , if wee should suppone that westminster by a standing law of the kingdome were the unal●erable seat where the parliament can fit , and in no other place , which yet could prove nothing , seeing london and the suburbs are in their government no lesse subordinate to the parliament , then the meanest village and towne in england , and therefore i see no ground , because some representative worship was tied to jerusalem , to give jerusalem a church-supremacie , . because one congregation doth pray for another that is under pestilence and diseases , and praises god for the deliverance from these evills which also is a sort of representative worship ( every church and person partaking of a christian priesthood to offer up prayers and praises one for another ) it will not ( as i conceive ) prove that one congregation hath church-supremacie , and power of jurisdiction over another . because . all israel was alike circumcised ; . all alike the called people of god , in covenant with god ; . all had claime to the altar , sacrifices , temple , arke , &c. . all alike professed their subjection to god , to priests and prophets in these same ordinances , whether typicall , or judiciall , or morall , therefore every synagogue alike at ierusalem , at dan or bersheba , were alike congregationall churches , without dependance one upon another , and all depended upon the whole nationall church , and on the synodries supreme , subordinate , and the synagogue-government according to their subordinations respectively ; and i see no nationall church in israel peculiar to them , or typicall , more then there is a nationall church in scotland or england , though god put some distinguishing typicall notes upon their government , yet it never made either the invisible or visible church of the iewes to differ in nature and essence from the christian churches . object . . from the power of jurisdiction , in a synod , you may inferre a power of jurisdiction , in a nationall church , and a power of jurisdiction in the whole christian world , and wee know not any politicall church catholick and visible in scripture , and if then were any such church catholick , then might they conveene and sweart a catholick-covenant for uniformitie of doctrine , worship , and government of the church , as wee have done in britaine , and this catholick church might impose it , upon a nationall church , even by that same law of proportion , by which the nationall church may impose it on particular churches which are parts of the nationall church . answ. i see not how the consequence holdeth every way good , that as wee inferre from a juridicall power in a presbytery , the same power juridicall in a synod , and the same in a nationall assembly , that therefore wee may inferre the same juridicall power in an oecumenick councell : and the reasons of the disparitie i take to bee these ; . the farther remote in locall distance of place that churches bee , ( as it falleth out in the catholick visible church ) the danger of scandalizing one another , by visible communion , and so the opportunitie of edifying one another is the lesse , and so the communion visible is the lesse , and consequently the power of jurisdiction is the lesse . . an universall and oecumenick councell of all the visible churches on earth , is an act of the visible church which supposeth all the visible churches on earth to bee in that morall perfection of soundnesse of faith , of concord and unitie , that some one congregation or classicall presbytery of elders according to gods heart may bee in , which morall perfection perhaps is not de facto attainable , ( though it bee not physically impossible ) in this life , except wee suppose the heavenly dayes of christs visible reigne on earth a thousand yeares , when yet there shall bee no temple nor externall ministery , of which state i cannot now dispute , and therefore i conceive these sixteene hundred yeares there never was an integrall and perfect oecumenick councell of all the churches on earth , and therefore if wee should dispute of the juridicall power of such a catholick assembly whether it may impose an oecumenick and catholick oath on a nationall church against their will , and excommunicate a nationall church , is but a needlesse and a ch●mericall dispute , and it includeth two contradictory suppositions . . that all the churches on earth are of one sound faith , worship , doctrine and church-government , and yet one nationall church is supposed to bee heterodox , scandalous , and obstinate , so that that whole nationall church must bee constrained to take a lawfull oath and must bee excommunicated ; such an hypothesis is not possible where the gospell is preached , for even the whole romish church in all its members deserveth not excommunication , in respect wee are sure god hath thousands in the bosome of that church ; who beleeve in christ , and doe not defend popery with obstinacie , and such an hypothesis is contradicent to the supposition of the soundnesse of faith and unitie of all christian churches on earth , and therefore i plainely deny that christ hath given the like power of jurisdiction to the catholick visible church , that hee hath given to a nationall church , over a provinciall church or synod , and to a synod over a classical presbyterie ; yea i much doubt if a catholick councell can formally excommunicate a nationall church , though such a councell may use a power analogicall like to the power of excommunication . object . . but you cannot demonstrate from gods word , that there is such a thing in the new testament , as a catholick visible church . answ. i said something of this before , but i conceive the subject of the cor. . is a catholick , visible church , but , . wee doe not understand a politicall body with ordinary visible government from one man who maketh himselfe the vicar of christ , the pope , whose members are cardinals , bishops , & c. and such like . but the catholick body mysticall of jesus christ , and that as visible : and . that the apostle is to bee understood of an universall , not of a congregationall and particular politick church that meeteth in one place , is cleare ; . hee speaketh of that church wherein are diversities of gifts for the good of the whole catholick body , as miracles , the gift of prophecie , the gift of interpretation , the gift of healing , &c. of whom hee saith , v. , . there is the same spirit , and the same god , who worketh all in all , the particular congregation is not such an all in all . . hee speaketh of such a church as taketh in all baptized into one spirit , but this is the whole visible church , not one single congregation onely . . hee speaketh of such a church as taketh in all , both jewes and gentiles , making them one body , v. . and that taketh in all the world . . hee speaketh of such a church as hath an adequat and full relation to christ , from which this church is denominated christ mysticall , all the beleevers meeting in one mysticall body of christ , as lines in one center , v. . now a single congregation hath not a foot to fill this measure . . hee speaketh of such a body as hath need of the helpe one of another , as the head hath need of the feet , v. , , . those of a single congregation have need of those , who are eyes and eares without the congregation . . hee speaketh of such a body , as is not to separate in their members , one from another , to make a schisme in the body . v. . but a single congregation ought not to separate from the rest of the great body made up of many sister churches . . hee speaketh of such a body , the members whereof must care one for another , and suffer one with another , v. . now single congregations are such members of this great bodie , as must mourne with these that mourne and rejoyce with these that rejoyce , therefore one single congregation cannot bee this whole body , but its part onely . . hee speaketh of such a body in which god hath set , v. . apostles , prophets , teachers , mi●●cles , &c. now christ hath not wedged in apostles the catholick pastors of the whole world , to one single congregation , nor hath hee confined such a multitude of officers ordinarie and extraordinary to one single congregation . and that hee speaketh here of a catholicke visible church is cleare ; . hee speaketh of such a body , to which is given the manifestation of the spirit to profit withall , v. . this must bee a visible policie . . hee speaketh of a politicall and organicall body , having eyes , eares , hands , feet , &c. which must bee a visible ministery . . hee speaketh of a body capable of the seales , such as baptisme , v. . we all are baptized by one spirit into one body , this must bee a visible baptized body ; discerned by the visible character of baptisme from all societies of jewes , pagans , and others who professe not christ jesus . . hee speaketh of such a body as standeth in need of the helpe one of another , as the eye cannot say to the hand , i have no need of the , v. . this evidently cryeth that hee supposeth a visible and externall policie in this body . . hee speaketh of a body so tempered of god , as that there should bee no schisme in the body , nor separation from it , v. . now this cannot bee a separation from the invisible body of christ , for so hypocrites which are members of this visible body , and are often officers , as eyes and eares , yea pastors , and teachers remaining in the body without any schisme or separation , are yet separatists from the invisible body of christ , and no more parts of that body , then a woodden leg or arme is a member of a living man. . he speaketh of that body which is to expresse its care in praying , praising , mourning and rejoycing with the rest of the members as they are in a good or adverse condition of prosperitie or adversitie , v. , . and this must bee a visible church praying or praising god. . hee speaketh of such a church as the fellow members may see and know by their senses , to suffer , and bee in a hard condition , or to rejoyce , as v. . . and this is more then apparently cleare to bee a visible church . . hee speaketh of such a church as god hath furnished with severall officers , in severall orders visibly knowne to bee different officers , as v. . now god hath set some in the church , first apostles , secondarily prophets , thirdly teachers , these bee parts and most eminent and considerable organs of a visible church . and the like i might prove by divers of these arguments of that body politicall of which the apostle speaketh , rom. . , , , . to the end of the chapter . these speciall exceptions there bee against this . . that the church , cor. . is the invisible and mysticall body of christ , because it is a body baptized by one spirit . . a body called christ , that is christ mysticall . answ. it is true that this visible body hath also an inward and spirituall baptizing , answerable to the externall and outward baptizing , and so according to that internall and mysticall union it is an invisible body , as these reasons prove : but the question is , if the apostle speake of the body of christ in that notion , we deny that , for hee speaketh plainly here of the church , as it is a politicall , organicall and visible body . object . . if one should say , god hath placed in the common-wealth emperours , kings , dukes , princes and rulers , as the eyes and eares of the commonwealth , it should no wayes follow that all the common-wealths in the earth are one visible civill body having a government , so though it hee said god hath placed in the spirituall common-wealths of the church apostles , prophets , teachers , &c. it followeth not that the church is all one spirituall , politick visible body , it followeth onely that the lord hath placed in the church apostles , prophets , teachers indefinitly , that is , that these may bee in any one single congregation , as it is said , james . . if there come into your assembly , or synagogue , a man with a gold ring , &c. now this will not prove that all the dispersed jewes , to whom james wrote , were all but one congregation . answ. . it is true , if any should say , god hath placed in the common-wealth emperors , kings , dukes , princes , it should not folow that common-wealths are one body , even jewes , gentiles , barbarians , americans , because there is not this externall union of visible communion in the common-wealths of the earth , as there is in the churches ; but if one should say , god hath placed emperors , kings , dukes , princes in the common-wealths , as in one organicall body , having one head who hath given influence to so many orgins of head feet , hands , eyes , eares , &c. as the apostle speaketh of this body of the church , he should then say all the common-wealths of the world made but one body , but this indefinite speech must , by good logick , have the vertue either of an universall or a particular proposition , as if i say ( the church hath seated in it apostles , prophets , teachers , &c. ) you meane either the cathlick visible church , or the particular congregation , or . some church betwixt these two : our brethren cannot say they meane of a middle church , for then they grant ( contrary to their owne principles ) a politicall visible church , beside a congregation ; if they say the first , wee have what wee crave ; if they say that the congregation hath seated in it apostles , prophets , they fall in the former absurditie , for god hath placed apostles , in the whole christian world . object . . when the apostle saith , v. . the head cannot say to the feet , i have no need of you ; either must wee acknowledge here that ●ee meaneth the head of a congregation , to wit a pastor , or a doctor , and so hee speaketh here of a congregation ; or if hee speake of the catholick church , then estius his argument may stand in force to 〈◊〉 the pope to bee the head of the church ; for estius exponing these needs ( the head cannot say to the feet , i have no need of you ) by the head of the catholick church ( saith hee ) you either understand christ the principall head , or then , some mortall man , the pope , who is a ministeriall head ; the former you cannot say , because christ being god , and also man perfectly happy , hee may say to all the members of his church great and small , yea to the very angels , i have no need of you ; for hee can sanctifie and governe his church without the ●●d , the sacraments , or any ministers , therefore the head which 〈◊〉 in need of the feet , must bee the ministeriall head the pope , 〈◊〉 standeth in need of the feet for the governing of the body in a ministeriall way . i answer , there is no reason for a popish argument to leave the truth , for this argument shall no lesse militate against cur brethren , then against us , because it shall prove that there is a ministeriall head and pope in every congregation , which is no lesse absurd then to make a catholick head over all the visible catholick church . secondly , as for the argument it is easily answered , for the apostle here useth a comparison from the naturall body , and there is no ground to presse every to● , lith and sinew of a comparison ; and wee deny that the word ( head ) here doth signifie literally either pastor or bishop , for the eye also being that which watcheth and seeth for the whole body should also signifie the pastor , but the intent of the spirit of god is , that the most eminent members which are as the eyes & the head , whether their eminencie bee excellencie of saving grace , called , gratia gratum faciens , or excellencie of gifts , called , gratia gratis data , they have need of the gifts and graces of others inferiors and of meaner parts , and there is neither ministeriall head , nor ministeriall feet , nor ministeriall eyes in the text. object . . to every visible church there should bee a paster to feed and rule that church , if then there bee here a catholick visible church , thers should also be a catholick visible pastor , & that is a pope . answ. that to every church meeting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into one place , for word and sacraments , there should bee one pastor onely and a supreme one , i deny ; there may bee more pastors then one , but that to every catholick church there should be one head most eminent , that is farre rather to bee denied , for this is so great a flocke that there bee a necessitie of multitude of pastors and watchmen to attend so catholick a flock . object . . you teach that the government of consociated churches is warranted by the light of nature , which if it bee true , surely this light of nature being common to us , in civill , as in ecclesiasticall ca●ses , then by natures light every citie governed with rulers within it selfe , is suberdinate to a classe of many cities , and that classe to a nationall meeting of all the cities , and the nation must in its government bee subordinate to a catholick or ●ecumenick civill court , and this same way may appeales ascend in civill courts ; and because by the same light of nature ( saith mr. mather , and mr. thomson ) there must bee some finall and supreme judgement of controversies le●t ●ppeaks should bee spun out in infinitum , it must bee proved that this sup●em 〈◊〉 lyeth not in a congregation . answ. . appeales being warranted by the morall counsell which je●hro gave to moses , in which there is nothing typicall or ●remoniall , but a patterne that all common-wealths on earth , without any danger of judaizing may fellow , cannot but bee ( as whittaker hath observed ) naturall , and supposing that god hath given warrant in his word , for monarchies , which are knowne by gods appointment to bee independent , as also the government of all free and unconquered states are , it doth follow by the light of nature , that appeales in all states are naturall , and that god hath appointed that the supremacie should lie within the bounds of every free monarchie or state , so that there can bee no appeale to any oecumenicall or catholick civill court , for that is against the independent power that god hath given to states ; but in the church it is farre otherwise , for god hath appointed no visible monarchie in his church , nor no such independencie of policie within an congregation classicall , provinciall or nationall church and therefore though appeales bee warranted both in church and state , by the light of nature , yet appeales to exotick and forraine judicatures is not warranted by any such light , but rather contrary thereunto . . church-appeales , though warranted by the light of nature , yet it is supposed they bee rationall , and grounded on good reason , as that either the matter belong not to the congregation , or then it bee certaine or morally presumed the congregation will bee partiall and unjust , or the businesse bee difficill and intricate , and if appeales bee grcundlesse and unjust , neither christ , nor natures light doth warrant them , yea in such a case the supremacie , from which no man can lawfully appeale , lyeth sometime in the congregation , sometime in the classicall presbytery , so as it is unlawfull to appeale , for illud tantumpossumus quod jure possumus , and neither christ nor natures light doth warrant us to unjust appeales , or to any thing against equitie and reason : but that supremacy of power should bee in a congregation without any power of appealing , i thinke our brethren cannot teach ; for when the church of antioch cannot judge a matter concerning the necessitie of keeping moses his law , or any difficill dogmaticall point , they by natures direction , act. . . decree to send pau ' , barnabas and others to jerusalem to the apostles and elders , as to a higher judicature , that their truth may bee determined , and this they did without any positive law that wee can imagine : for a mr. mather and mr. thomson , as also b the author of the church government of new england teach that the church of antioch had , jus , power to judge and determine the controversie , but because of the difficultie had not light ●o judge thereof ; ergo they must acknowledge appeales by natures light warrantable as well as wee , for suppose wee , that a congregation inclineth to this ( that arminianisme is the sound doctrine of grace opposite to stoicisme ) one man is cited before the congregation for holding the contrary , hee knoweth all the congregation in those points to be pelagians , would not our brethren say , that this man so unjustly accused for holding the truth against the enemies of grace may appeale to a synod ? i thinke they must teach this by their grounds , though by the way i thinke the brethren erre in this to teach that antioch had power to determine the controversie , act. . in this case ; . when the churches of syria and cilicia , to their knowledge , were troubled with the like question , as v. . may cleare ; . when as the partie against the truth was so prevalent within the church of antioch , act. . . as that they opposed the apostle pau ' , and barnabas , also in this case i doubt much if they had power to determine a question , that so much concerned all the churches , for that was proper to a synod of many churches . . when the greatest part of a church , as antioch , is against the truth , as is cleare , act. . . i beleeve in that they lose their jus , their right to determine ea●enus , in so farre , for christ hath given no ecclesiasticall right and power to determine against the truth , but onely for the truth , and therefore in this , appeales must bee necessary . mr. mather and mr. thomson against herle , c. . p. . . say we do much judaizein that we multiply appeales upon appeales , from the congregation to a classe , then to a synod , then to a nationall assembly , then to an ●eckmenick councell , and this way , while the world indureth , causes are never determined , and synods cannot alwayes bee had , even as in jerusalem the supreme judicature was farre remote from all proselytes , as from the eunuch of aethiopia , act. . and from the remotest parts of the holy land ; but god hath provided better for us , in the new testament , where every congregation , which is at hand , may decide the controversie . answ. . the speedinesse of ending controversies in a congregation , is badly compensed with the suddainnesse and temerity of delivering men to satan , upon the decision of three elders , without so much as asking advise of any classes of elders , and with deciding questions deepe and grave , that concerneth many churches , which is a putting a private sickle in a common and publick harvest . . all appeales without just warrant from christs will , wee condemne , as the abuse of appeales to a court , which is knowne shall never bee . . antiochs appeale to a synod two hundreth miles distant ( as our brethren say ) in so weighty a question , was no judaizing , but that which paul and the apostles was guiltie of , as well as wee . . matters concerning many churches must bee handled by many . the doctrine of the presbyteriall churches of jerusalem , corinth , ephesus , antioch , vindicated . vvee are convinced from the numerous multitude of beleevers , and the multitude of pastors at this famous and mother church of the christians at jerusalem , to beleeve the frame and mould was presbyteriall , and that it cannot bee so much as imagined or dreamed that it was moulded to the patterne of one single congregation which could all meet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into one place . the frame of an independent single congregation is such as no more doe meet ordinarily in one house , then may conveniently bee edified , in partaking of one word , and one breaking of bread , that is , one table at the supper of the lord ; nor can wee imagine that the first mould of a christian visible church was so inconvenient as that it crossed edification and conversion , which is the formall effect of a church-meeting : now the multitude was such as could not , neither morally ; nor physically , meet in one house . for at one table many thousands and multiplied thousands could not meer and therefore consider their number ; they were , act. . a hundreth and twentie met in one place , but i shall not bee of the opinion that this was all , seeing , cor. . . christ after his resurrection was seene of cephas , then of the twelve , after that hee was seene of above five hundreth brethren ; then in one day at one sermon about three thousand soules , act. . . and ch . . . though they were apprehended who preached the gospell , yet many of them which heard the word beleeved , and the number of the men was about five thousand . i deny not but worthy calvin saith , id potius de tota ecclesia , quam de nova accessione intelligendum , this was the whole number including the three thousand that were converted , c. . but first hee saith , potius , hee inclineth rather to this opinion : but secondly the text saith of those which heard the word , it would seeme to mee , at the second sermon of peter , and a augustine , b chrysostome , c bed● , d basilius , e oecumenius , f hieronym . g ireneus make this number divers from the former , so doe h cornelius a lap. i salmeron , k stapletonus , ( l ) sanctius , m lorinus , n lyranus , o cajetanus ; but we shall not contend about the matter , nor yet whether the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 includeth women , which it often doth in the greek , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in demosthenes doth also ; yet the wisdome of god in the apostles cannot admit us to imagine that five thousand could ordinarily meet to the word , sacraments , and government in one house , and after this many thousands were added to this church . . our brethren say , it is one thing to say that they could not meet in one place by reason of extrinsecall impediments of persecution , and through want of a capacious and large roome , and another thing to say , that it was unpossible that they could bee one congregation , and meet in one place , for though wee prove they could not meet because of persecution , wee doe not prove that they were so numerous that they could not conveniently meet in one place . answ. though it bee evident that the apostles were persecuted , cast in prison , and beaten , act. . . c. . . . . . it is as evident that they had assemblies , and churches meetings , act. . . . . c. . , , . c. . . v. . now the question then is not if they could not meet , for extrinsecall impediments of persecution ; for both our brethren and wee agree in this , that they had their church-assemblies for word and sacraments , then the question is upon the supposall of church assembles , which the persecution of the jewes then fearing the people was not able to hinder , c. . , whether or no was the church at jerusalem of such a competent number , onely as that they could meet not occasionally onely to heare a sermon , but in an ordinary church-meeting to heare the word , and communicate in the breaking of bread , and seales of the covenant ; and though the want of a capacious house bee also an extrinsecall impediment why they could not meet , yet that they wanted such a capacious house as the temple , will prove nothing , but it cannot bee said that they wanted a capacious house for the ordinary meeting of a congregation , the ordinary and genuine use whereof is to bee edified by the word and sacraments , and that an ordinary house could containe such a number of thousands and multitudes as can bee edified in a congregationall way , is denyed . . our brethren say ; that they did not eate the supper in private houses , for the breaking of bread , act. . . was common bread , and they had the use of the temple , and taught in the temple , for the senate of the jewes durst not extend their malice to the highest , act. . . for they feared the people , and act. . . so when they had s●●●her threatned them , they let them goe , finding nothing how they might punish them because of the people ; for all men glorified god , for that which was done , so the people favouring the apostles , they made use of their libertie to the full , and bad their publick meetings for word and sacraments in the temple , and did meet in private houses , act. . . in a private way , not in a church way , so act. . . they had favour with all the people . answ. it is said these beleevers , v , . were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in one place , and those who , v. . did eate bread 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from house to house , met then being in one place , and ( eating of bread from house to house ) must bee exponed as wee doe , distributively , that is , divided in small assemblies , for the argument that we bring militateth against the eating of their common meat in houses , all being in one private house ; were three thousand in ●ne place , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all at one banquet , and that daily ? . it is true , divers expone the breaking of bread , v. . not of the supper of the lords yet of the banquets of love where there was an assembly of many ; but v. . it is cleare these three thousand did receive the supper of the lord together , and it is so true that the syriack hath it in his exposition thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 un●isht an●hephin bavau but luthi u●aktsa●a deu●ha●rskia , it is memorable , saith lorinus , that hee retaineth the name of eucharistia , it a is rendred , et communica●ant in oratione & fractione eucharistia , yea and b lutherus and c calvin both expound it so , and as d lorinus , e cajetanus , f cornelius a lapide , they bee all spirituall exercises named here . but how can wee imagine that many thousands could in one meeting communicate at one table in the lords supper , and that ordinarily ? . what voyce could reach to so many thousands , as they did grow unto ? . what table could suffice to a congregation of so many thousands added to the church , for the supper is a table ordinance , and requireth table communion , table gestures , which the apostles could not so soone remove and change into an altar , that all might conveniently heare and bee edified . . can wee beleeve , that seeing congregationall meetings of fewer , and that in private houses , was lesse obnoxious to the indignation of authoritie , then meeting in the temple , as is most evident , act. . , . and seeing the apostles had libertie to meet , act. . . that they would draw the first mould of the christian visible church , after the patterne of a convention most unfit , yea unpossible , for attaining the intended end , to w●t , edification , especially not being compelled thereunto , by an extrinsecall necessitie . our brethren say , three thousand , five thousand might all communicate in one place , though not at one time , súccessively , as it is in many numerous congregations ; but i answer . after they were five thousand , ch . . i dare say , taking in the hundreth and twentie , the five hundreth brethren that all saw christ at once , cor. . . and the fruit of the preaching of the other ten apostles , all now present at jerusalem , when the 〈…〉 the spirit on all flesh , joe . . , . 〈◊〉 , , . was now to take effect at this time , there were 〈◊〉 thousand , but after there all it is said , act. . . the 〈…〉 were multiplyed , v. . and the word of god 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the 〈…〉 disciples grew exceedingly , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a great 〈◊〉 the priests were obedient to the faith ; how many of the people were then obedient to the faith ? could all these make on : congregation to eate at one table ? but . when they are put to this shift , to say , that they did communicate suc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 table , and ( which must bee ) not all in one day , then 〈◊〉 brethren grant there was not here such a congregation as is , cor. . when you come together therefore into one 〈…〉 eat the lords supper , . wherefore my brethren 〈…〉 together to eate , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tarry one for another ; when 〈◊〉 come to eate at the love-feasts , especially at the lords supper , saith di●datus ; if every one of the congregation bee to waite on while another come , then in the apostolick church all the congregation came together to the lords supper to one place and at one time , and this is not the congregation where of hee speaketh , cor. . . if therefore the whole church c●me together to the same place , and all speake with tongues , 〈…〉 in th●se that are unlearned and unbeleovers , will they 〈…〉 mad ? hence all the congegration come together to one place , at one time , and the place was so that heathen and unbeleevers might come into their worship of the congregation , but our brethren make the meeting of this congregation such as they were not to s●ay one for another , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all at one time , but successively , and so as the whole congregation could not come to one place at once , but by 〈◊〉 and quarters , and fractions and divided parts , now one 〈◊〉 , or two thousand , then another two thousand the next day , for the apostles then celebrating the supper at night and after supper , c●r . . . few thousands should bee able to communicate after supper . . there was no necessitie , that these wise master-builders should divide the church , and the first visible church in so many parts , and this successive communion doth clearely prove our point , that there were many congregations , for every successive fraction being a competent convention of beleevers having the word and sacraments , and so power of jurisdiction not to admit all promiscuously to the lords table , is to our brethren a compleat church , for to it indeed agreeth the essentiall characters of a visible instituted church , for there is here a ministery , the word and sacraments , and some power of jurisdiction within it selfe , and so what lacketh this successive fraction of an intire congregation ? but what ground for so needlesse a conjecture , that the apostolick church did celebrate the lords supper in the temple , never in private houses ? the contrary is , act. . . and upon the first day of the weeke the disciples came together to breake bread , paul preached unto them , v. . and there were many lights in an upper chamber , where they were conveened , so the text is cleare , the first day of the weeke , cor. . . was the day of the christians publick worship , and a augustine , b calvin , c lu●her , d melancthon , bullinger , e diodatus ; and so f lorinus and g sanchius say this was the lords supper , who can imagine that the apostles did bring so many thousand christians after supper to the temple , to celebrate a new evangelick feast , and that immediatly after peters first sermon , act. . ? . before the apostles had informed the jewes , that all their typicall and ceremoniall feasts were now abolished , yea while they stood in vigor , and the apostles themselves kept them in a great part ? was this like the spirit of the gospel , which did beare with moses his ceremonies for fortie yeares ? . the apostles , act. . . are indited before the synedry , that they taught , in the temple , jesus christ : if they had with so many thousands , gone to the temple with a new extraordinary ceremoniall ordinance as a new sacrament , so contrary in humane reason , to all the sacred feasts , sacrifices , and ceremonies , should not this with the first have beene put in their inditement , that they were shouldering moses out of the temple ? yet are they onely accused for teaching the people ; yea christ the law-giver , who preached the gospell daily in the temple , would not take the last supper to the temple , but celebrated it in a private chamber ; and paul being accused alwayes as an enemy to moses and the temple , his enemies the jewes who watched him heedfully , could never put on him , that hee celebrated a sacrament in the temple : as for baptisme it being a sort of washing , ( whereof the pharisees used many , matth. . mark. . ) it was performed often sub di● in rivers , never in the temple ; wee desire any author , father , ( ocecumenius doubteth onely ) doctor , divine , protestant , or papist , late or old , who said the apostles celebrated the supper in the temple . . our brethren say all , these did conve●ne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for act. . . when they had prayed the place was shaken where they were assembled together , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. . . and they continued daily with one accord in the temple , and breaking bread from house to house , did eate their meat with gladnesse . answ. the place , act. . . saith not , that all the five thousand beleevers were in that one place , which was shaken , for v. . that when the apostles were let goe by the priests and captaines of the temple they returned to their owne company 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to their owne , but no circumstance in the text doth inferre that they came backe to the whole five thousand , but onely to some few of the first beleevers , that were converted before the first sermon of peter was made , cap. , they returned , lyra and hugo cardinalis , to their owne company , ad domesticos suos , and so saith lorinus , who citeth the syriack 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hachaiehin ad fratres suos . salmeron , ad suos ●apostolos , sive condiscipulos & domesticos fidei , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie the whole church , but friends and domesticks , as , mark. . . goe home to thy own house and shew thy friends , luke , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 compared with , luk. . . and gal. . , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and tim. . . therefore the place saith that the five thousand were gathered together in this one place which was shaken . . giving and not granting that they were all conveened to prayer , it doth not follow that they did meet ordinarily in one place , for partaking of word and sacraments , as one congregation , for ●oe might conveene to prayer and hearing the word , then could meet ordinarily in a congregationall-way . neither will any text inforce us to expone 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , collectively , but distributively , as wee say , all the congregations in scotland met , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in one , every lords day , that is , every one of the congregations is in one place , but the sense is not that all the congregations collectively are in one place . and wee may justly aske what this place was which was shaken , it is not like that it was the temple , that which should have beene more prodigious like , and presaged a ruine to the temple , would not have beene concealo● by the holy ghost , for it would have more terrified the jewes , and the temple is never called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sine adjecto , without some other thing to make it bee knowne to bee the holy place , if it was a private house , give us leave to say it could not containe five thousand to heare prayer , farre lesse a more numerous multitude . wee re●it it to the judgement of the wise , if the apostles were so lazie to propagate the gospell , that where twelve of them were present undoubtedly , act. . . act. . . and ( as many of the learned thinke , the seventie disciples ) that eleven apostles did heare the word onely , and one did speake to one congregation onely , which consisted of so many thousands , for to the five thousand , if there were no moe , c. . . mere beleevers were added to the lord , multitudes both of men and women , who could not conveniently heare ? this i thinke not imaginable ; for . now the harvest was large , thousands were to bee converted . . the spirit was now powred upon all flesh . . christ , when hee sent the tw●lve but to jude● , hee sent them two and two , and would have every man at worke , and the apostles went out in twoes , act. . paul and b●rna●as and sometimes but one peter was sent to the jewes , paul to the gentiles , and the world divided amongst them , . of other officers timothy is sent to ephesus , titus to crete , that so they might the more swiftly spread the gospell to all the world . what wisedome could wee imagine would lead the twelve apostles to speake to one single congregation met in one place , at one time ? the rest , to wit the eleven and the seventic disciples being silent ? for in the church the god of order will have one to speake at once , cor. . . but our reverend brethren seeing and considering well that the church at jerusalem could not all meet in one congregationall way , and that they were a christian church , and so behoo●ed to bee a presbyteriall church , they doe therefore betake themselves to another answer , for they say that this church at 〈…〉 an extraordinary constituted church , and . wanted an eldership , and presbytery , as christian churches have now : . the government was meerely apostolicall : . the constitution was somewhat jewish , rather then christian , for their service was mixed with legall ordinances and jewish observances for many yeares , and therefore cannot bee a patterne of the christian visible church which wee now seeke . to which i answer . . because our brethren consider that the church of jerusalem will not bee their independent congregation , before wee obtaine it , for us , as a mould of a presb●t●riall church , they had rather quit their part of it , and permit the jewes to have it , for us both , but wee are content that their congregations in some good sense bee given to them , and not to jewes . . there is no reason , but the church of jerusalem bee a christian church ; . the externall profession of a visible church maketh it a visible christian church , but this church professeth faith in christ already come in the flesh and the sacraments of the new testament , baptisme , and the sacramentall breaking of bread , act. . , . wee desire to know how saving faith in a multitude constituteh an invisible church , and the externall and blamelesse profession of that same saving faith doth not contitute a visible church also ? and how this is not a christian visible church not differing in essence and nature from the 〈◊〉 churches that now are , to which the essentiall note of a visible church agreeth , to wit the preaching or profession of the sound faith : if it bee called an apostolick and so an extraordinary christian church because the apostles doth governe ●it , that is not enough , if the apostles governe it , according to the rule of the word framing the visible churches of the new testament , this way the church of corinth , cor. . shall bee an apostolick and so an extraordinary church , which our brethren cannot say . but wee desire to know wherein the frame of this first patterne christian church at jerusalem is so extraordinary , that it cannot bee a rule to us to draw the mould of our churches according to it , for if the apostles make it a patterne of an ordinary christian church in word and sacraments , to say it was extraordinary in the government , except you shew that that government was different from the rule that now is in government , is petitio principii , to begge what is in question , for these same keyes both of knowledge and jurisdiction that by your grant , were given to the church , matth. . , , . were given to the apostles , matth. , , . and joh. . . if you say it is extraordinary , because as yet they had not deacons , for the apostles did as yet serve tables , where as afterward act. . that was given to the deacons by office , and so they had not elders , nor doctors , nor pastors as we now ha●e , but the apostles were both pastors , ruling elders , doctors , and deacons , and they were the onely governing eldership , and this was extraordinary that they had no eldership , and so they were for that same cause no presbyteriall church , whence it followeth that you cannot make this church which had no presbytery , a patterne of a presbyteriall church . but i answer , this will not take off the argument , if wee shall prove that after they were more then could meet in one congregation , and so after they were so numerous that they were moe congregations then one , they had one common government , and . wee say though the apostles had power to governe all the churches of the world , and so many congregations , yet if they did rule many congregations as elders , and not as apostles , wee prove our point . now we say where baptisme and the lords supper was , there behoved to bee some government , else the apostles admitted promiscuously to baptisme and the lords supper any the most scandalous and prophane , which wee cannot thinke of the apostles : it is true say you , they admitted not all , but according to the rule of right government , but this right government was extraordinary , in that it was not in a setled eldership of a congregation , which was oblieged to reside and personally to watch over that determinate flock , and no other flock , but it was in the hands of the apostles , who might goe through all the world to preach the gospell , and were not tied to any particular flock : and so from this neither can you draw your classicall eldership , nor wee our congregationall eldership . but i answer , yet the question is begged , for though it bee unlawfull for a setled eldership not to reside where their charge is , yet the question is now of a government in the hands of those who are oblieged to reside and give personall attendance to the flock , and the government in the hands of the apostles , who were not oblieged to personall attendance over this and this particular flock , which they did governe ; were governments so different in nature , as the one is a patterne to us , not the other , and the one followeth rules different in nature and spirit from the other ; for though it were granted that the apostles did governe many congregations as apostles , not as elders , yet there was no extraordinary reason why these many congregations should bee called one church , and the beleevers added to them , said to bee added to the church , as it is said , act. . . and the lord added to the church daily such as should bee saved , except this church bee one entire body governed and ruled according to christs lawes . . there bee seven descons chosen to this church , act. . and deacons are officers of the church of philippi which our brethren calleth phil. . . a congregationall church , and pnebe was a deaconisse ( say they ) of the church of cenchrea , rom. . . and if they had deacons , they could not want elders , who are as necessary . . this church could not bee so extraordinary as that it cannot bee a patterne to us of the constant government of churches by elders , which wee call aristocraticall , seeing it is brought as a patterne of the churches government by the voices of the people , which is called by divines , in some respect , democraticall , and this place is alledged by our brethren , and by all protestant divines against bishops and papists to prove that the people have some hand in government , to wit , in election of officers , and so the words are cleare , act. . . and this saying pleased the whole multitude , and they choosed steven , &c. so this multitude did not make one congregationall church , but it was a company of the multiplied disciples , both of grecians and hebrews , as is clearely related to these spoken of , v. . c. . now hebrewes and grccians were directly one church having one government , and seven deacons , common to both , now that could not bee a single independent congregation , as is already proved . . if the con●titution of this church at jerusalem bee sewish , because of some jewish observations , and so no patterne of the frame of ordinary visible churches christian ; i say . this is no good argument , seeing the christian visible church , and the jewish visible church is of that same frame and constitution , having that same faith , s●all grant , except papists , socinians and armini●ns , and so that same profession of that same faith . . if this were a good reason , then all the churches of the gentiles which are commanded for a time , in the case of scandall , to observe some jewish lawes , to abstaine from eating meates offered to id●ls , and from blood , and from things strangled , act. . . act. . . shall bee also churches in their constitution jewish , and so no patterne to us ; and the church of rome and of corinth shall bee jewish also , and no patterne to us , because in case of scandall they are to abstaine from meats forbidden in the law of moses , rom. . cor. . c. . but this our brethren cannot teach . . though apostles did governe all these congregations , yet wee are not to thinke● that seeing there were such abundance of gifted men in this church , on which the spirit , according to joels prophecie , was powred in so large a measure , that they did not appoint elders who did personally watch over the converted flock , especially seeing apostles use never this apostolicall and extraordinary power , but in case of necessitie , where ordinary helpes are wanting , else this answer might clude all reasons drawn from the first moulded churches which were planted by the apostles and watered by their helpers . but i have heard some say , that multitude of pastors at jerusalem doth not prove that the apostles were idle , if they did all attend me congregation , because they had worke enough in the synagogues 〈◊〉 convert the unconverted jewes , all the twelve did not labour in preaching to the one single new converted congregation . answ. but if you lay downe our brethrens supposition , that the apostles had no publick meetings for the word and sacraments of the christian church , but the temple , and that they ceased not daily in the temple , and from house to house to teach and preach christ , as is said , act. . . then consider that they preached not daily in the synagogues , but in the temple and i● houses , and their first conquest of five thousand was above three congregations , beside those who daily came in : and c●r●ainly it the first was but one congregation , yet one of the twelve preached to that congregation , the other eleven b●hoor●d to have a congregation also . . our brethren acknowledge the church of jerusalem to be one church , for it is called , even before the dispersion , one church in the singular number , act. . . and the lord added to the church daily . 〈◊〉 as should bee saved , act. . . great feare came upon all the church , and act. . a● that time there was a great persecution 〈◊〉 church . . they grant before the disportion that it had a government , but they deny this government to bee presbyterial , thy s●y it was apostolick and extraordinary , and that it had not in eldership , nor read wee of any elders till after the dispersion , act. . when their number was diminished , so as it is cleare they 〈◊〉 meet in one congregation . . you must prove this government bee one if you prove a presbyteriall church at jerusalem . . 〈◊〉 must prove divers formed and organicall and severall con●●●nions at jerusalem , if you prove such presbyteriall churches as 〈◊〉 have in scotland ; but i pray you , the apostles ( you say ) 〈◊〉 the church of jerusalem as apostles , and so as extraordinary elders , not as an ordinary eldership and presbytery , but give mee leave to say this is a meere shift . . what reason to call the apostles governing of the church extraordinary , more then their preaching the word and their administration of the sacraments is extraordinary ? and if word and sacraments doe prove that this was the first visible church and a type and patterne to all visible churches , why should its government bee extraordinary ? . why should the government bee extraordinary , because the apostles did governe it , in respect they were extraordinary officers , and should not the government bee by the apostles ; and exercised by them as a common ordinary presbytery , seeing this church in its goods , was governed by seven ordinary and constant chu●ch-officers , the seven deacons ? act. . and seeing the people did exercise an act of ordination ( say our brethren ) but an act of popular election ( say wee ) which cannot bee denynyed to bee a politick act of divers churches , hebrewes and grecians choosing their owne ordinary officers in relation to which they made one governed church , under one common government , which is not congregationall ; because not of one congregation , but of moe congregations conveened in their principall members ( for they could not all meet in one , as wee have proved ) ergo , it must bee presbyteriall . and that this government is one to mee is evident , because these seven deacons were officers in ordinary to them all . . wee see not how wee need to prove that the severall congregations were severall formed , fixed and organicall bodies ; . because it shall bee hard to our brethren to prove a parishionall church in its locall circuit in the apostolick church , and when churches were moulded and framed first in locall circuits of parishes , i will not undertake to determine . . ten congregations in a great citie , though not moulded locally and formally in ten little distinct churches organicall , yet if sixteene or twentie elders in common feede them all , with word , seales and common government , they differ not in nature from ten formed and fixed congregations , and the government is as truely aristocraticall , and presbyteriall , as if every one of them had their owne fixed eldership out of these sixteene elders , for fixing of this or this elder to this or this congregation is but accidentall to the nature of an organicall church ; if ten little cities have ten magistrates who ruleth them all in common , they are ten perfect politicall incorporations and societies , no lesse then if to every one of these ten were a fixed magistrate , to this or this citie ; because the king and state might accuse them all for any misgovernment or act of unjustice done by the whole ten conveened in one judicature to judge themall ; for what unjustice is done by the major part is to bee imputed to the whole colledge , in so farre as the whole colledge hath hand in it . . the formall acts of a politicall congregation not fixed are one and the same in nature and essence with the formall church-acts of a fixed congregation ; for . the word and sacraments are one and the same : . their acts of government , in rebuking , accusing , and joynt consenting to deliver to satan an incestuous man are one and the same , whether the congregation bee fixed , or not fixed ; shew us a difference . but it is said , they are different in a politicall or in a church-consideration , . because this determinate congregation is to subject their consciences in the lord , to this fixed eldership whom they have called and chosen to bee their elders , and not to the ministery of any others , as thess. . . know them that labour amongst you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( not those who are over others , ) and that are over you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and are over you in the lord , not over others , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and adm●nish you , not others : and . the pastors are to feed such a flocke over which the holy ghost hath set them , acts . . and they are to feede the flocke amongst them , pet. . . not any other , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , therefore pastors are fixed by the holy ghost to a fixed congregation . . pastors are not rebuked by the spirit of god , for remisse exercise of jurisdiction and church-power , but over their owne fixed congregation , not because they doe not exercise their power over other congregations over which they are not , and for whose soules they do not watch , as is evident in the severall rebukes tendered by christ to every angell or eldership of the seven churches in asia , revel . . c. . where every angel and church is rebuked for their owne omissions towards their owne fixed and particular flocks . answ. the places doe not come up , to prove fixed congregations in the apostles times ; for . wee deny that the church of thessalonica was one single fixed congregation , or the church of ephesus either , and farre lesse can the churches of pontus , galatia , cappadocia , asia , and bythinia , to which peter writeth , and whose elders , pet. . . . hee exhorteth to feede the flock of god , bee one fixed congregation , nor doe they prove that fixed congregations were , though i thinke it not unprobable that when phebe , rom. . . is called a deac●nisse of the church , which is at cenchrea , that there were fixed congregations at that time , but many things not without apparent strength of much probabilitie may bee said by the learned , on the contrary . . the eldership of ephesus i dare not call the eldership of one congregation , farre lesse of one fixed congregation , and they are all commanded to feed the flocke over which the holy ghost had set them , and no other church that is most true . but how doe our brethren inferre a fixed congregation at ephesus from thence ? farre lesse i think can they in ferre that the formall church-acts of a fixed , and a not fixed congregation are different in nature ; and therefore , if we can show that in the apostolick churches they had many congregations though not fixed , under one common eldership , which did feed them in common with word , sacraments and discipline , as is clearely proved , then have wee a patterne of a presbyteriall church . . the elders of ephesus and these elders , pet. . , , . had all of them a burden of the soules amongst them , and over which the holy ghost had set them , and they had not a burden and charge in particular of others as watching in particular for the soules of others : but how fixed congregations are hence inferred i see not , for i may have with other six pastors , a pastorall burden and charge to watch for three congregations , according to my talent and strength , though i bee not a fixed pastor to all the three collectively , or to any fixed one distributively , so as all the omissions of my six fellow-labourors shall bee laid to my charge , in the court of the judge and lord of all , if i do what i am able : which i demonstrate thus . . that morall obligation of conscience which did obliege the apostles as pastors of the christian world which was to bee converted , is not temporary but perpetuall and morall and did obliege the apostles as christians . therefore this morall , obligation did lie upon the apostles to feed the catholick fiocke of the whole christian world over which the holy ghost had set them , just as the elders of ephesus , act. . . are commanded to feed the whole flock of god which is at ephesus : now i aske if every single apostle is to make a reckoning to god for the soules of all the christian world ? . if peter must bee answerable to god , because paul by negligence should incurre the woe of not preaching the gospell , cor. . ? ( . ) if upon this morall ground of an obligation lying on the apostles to feed the catholick flock of the whole world , amongst which they were , for the most part , by speciall commandement of christ , to preach to all nations , matth. . . to every creature , mark. . v. . if ( i say ) the apostles bee tied to plant churches in such determinate quarters and fixed kingdomes of the habitable world , and if the dividing of the world into twelve severall parts , and large parishes to the twelve apostles , bee juris divini , of divine institution ? i believe this can hardly bee proved by gods word . . where there bee six elders in a congregation supposed to bee independent , every one of the six are oblieged in their place to feed the whole flocke , over which the holy ghost hath set them , and that by the commandement of god , act. . . . pet. . . as our brethren teach , but i hope by these places no humane logick would inferre , nor could our brethrèn collect , that , . every one of these six should , by divine institution , bee set over each of them the sixt determinate and sixt part of that congregation . . that every one of the sixt were not to give a reckoning for the whole congregation , and did not watch for the whole congregation according to his talent . . that one might not be accused , even one archippus possibly at colosse , col. . ▪ for his owne particular neglect to the whole flock , though others were also joyned with archippus who fulfilled their part of their ministery , col. . v. . yea & we justly aske if all the elders of thyatira were guiltie of remisse discipline against the false prophetesse jezabell , and if all the church of sardis did become sleepie , and secure , and had a name that they were living , and yet were dead , though the eldership under the name of the angel of the church , bee indefinitely rebuked , revel . . . c. . , , . . yea it is like to mee that seeing the lord jesus commendeth the one for love , service , faith , patience , revel . . . and the other , that c. . they had a few names that had not defiled their garments , that onely those who were guiltie , were rebuked , i beleeve , and therefore this is to bee proved that elders are not rebuked , but for their remisse watching over an unfixed congregation , the places to me , doe not prove it . now whereas our brethren say , that they read of no eldership before the dispersion of the church at jerusalem , act. . . and therefore of no presbyteriall government , and after the dispersion , the number was so diminished as they might all meet in one congregation , bec●use it is said , act. . . they were all scattered abroad through●●● the regions of iudea and samaria except the apostles . it is easily answered . . to what effect should the twelve apostles not also have followed their scattered flocks , and to what end did twelve apostles stay at jerusalem to preach to one single handfull , that might all conveniently meet in one house , and a private house , for i thinke the persecution could as easily put them from publick meetings in the temple and synagogues , as it could scatter them all to so few a number as one congregation ? was the the harvest so great , and the apostolick labourers so sparing in reaping , as eleven should bee hearers in one congregation ? and one speake onely at once ? . our brethren may know that wee prove a presbyterlall government before the dispersion . . if our brethren elide the force of our argument from multitude of beleevers at jerusalem , to prove a presbyteriall church , they must prove that this dispersion did so dissolve the church as that three thousand , act. . and some added daily , v. . and five thousand , act. . . and beleevers more added , multitudes both of men and women , act. . . and jerusalem was filled with the doctrine of the apostles , c. . . and yet the number of the disciples multiplied , c. . . and the word of god increased , and the number of the disciples multiplied in jerusalem greatly , and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith , they must ( i say ) prove ( for affirmanti incumbit probatio ) that all this number and all these thousands by the dispersion , act. . . came to one thousand and to a handfull of a single congregation . . i see no necessitie that these ( all ) be the whole body of the church , i grant diod●tus saith so , and a baronius conjectureth that there were fifteene thousand killed at this first persecution , b but dorotheus saith there were but two thousand killed , and ( c ) salmeron saith of dorotheus his relation , quae si vera sunt , profecta magna fuit persecutio , if it bee true , the persecution was indeed great , and wee cannot but thinke , seeing the spirit of god saith this was a great persecution , but the church was greatly diminished : but let us see if the text will beare that so many thousands ( for i judge at this time that the church hath been above ten thousands ) were partly killed , partly scattered , so that the church of jerusalem came to one single congregation which might meet ordinarily for word and sacran●ents in one private house , where the tewelve apostles came to them : for my part i cannot see it in the text , onely the persecution was great . . all were scattered except the apostles . . act. . paul saith of himselfe at this time , . many of the saints did i shut up in prison , having received authoritie from the high priests , and when they were put to death , i gave my voyce against them . . and i punished them oft in every synagogue , and compelled them to blaspheme , and being exceedingly mad against them , i persecuted them to strange cities ; all which saith many were imprisoned . . some scattered , but the text saith not that thousands were put to death , and it is not like that the holy ghost who setteth downe the other sort of persecution and the death of steven , would have beene silent of the killing of thousands . . whereas it is said , they were all scattered except the apostles , i see no ground of the text to say that by ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) all scattered , hee understandeth , all the disciples as d lyranus saith , so saith e eusebius , though f sanctius saith hee meaneth of the . disciples . and my reasons are , . the text saith , v. . saul entering into every house , ●aling men and women committed them to prison , as you may read , act. . , . ergo , all and every one without exception of any , save the apostles , were not scattered . . amongst so many thousands of men and women , many for age , weakenesse and sicknesse , and having young children , and women with child were not able to flee , therefore ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) cannot bee taken according to the letter every way . . paul after this dispersion , act. . . punished them in every synagogne . what ? punished hee jewes ? no christians ; ergo , after the dispersion there were christians left in synagogues at jerusalem which were not dispersed . . the text saith that the scattered abroad were preachers , and as i prove elsewhere here after , extraordinary prophets , and therefore all were scattered except the apostles , seemeth to imply that especially the whole teachers were scattered , except the apostles ; and g chrysostome , h athanasius , i nissenus observes that god out of this persecution tooke occasion to spread the gospell , by sending scattered preachers to all the regions about , so k lorinus , l sanctius , m cornelius a lapide , say they were not all sattered , and n cajetan exponeth these ( all ) onely of those upon whom the holy ghost descended . . though this church should come to one congregation now , this is but by accident , and from extrinsecall causes of persecution and scattering , but wee have proved at the first founding of this church apostolick the church of jerusalem called one church , the first draught and patterne of the visible christian church was such as could containe many congregations , and could not all meet in one . . there is no ground to say that apostles after this dispersion erected an ordinary eldership in jerusalem , whereas before there was an extraordinary , because the apostles was present with them , and you read of no elders while after the dispersion , because . you read not of the institution of ordinarie elders in the church of jerusalem after the dispersion , more then before , and so you are here upon conjectures . . there is no ground to say that the apostles changed the government of the first patterne of the christian churches from extraordinary to ordinary . . nor is there ground that the government of the first samplar of instituted churches of the new testament , should rather bee extraordinarie , then that first ordering of the word and sacraments should bee extraordinary , seeing the apostles the first founders of instituted churches under the new testament , had as ordinary matter to institute an ordinary presbytery and government , having beleevers in such abundance , upon whom , by the laying on of hands , they might give the holy ghost , as they had ordinary matter , to wit , a warrant , and command from christ , to preach and administer the sacraments . . the apostles abode many yeares at jerusalem , after there was an erected eldership , act. . . . act. . . act. . , , . gal. . after three yeares i went up to jerusalem to see peter , gal. . . then foureture yeeres after , i went up againe to jerusalem , &c. . and when james , cephas , and john who seemed to bee pillars , perceived the grace that was given unto mee , they gave to mee and barnabas the right hands fellowship . . though wee should give , and not grant that this dispersion did bring the church of jerusalem to so low an ebbe as to make it but one single congregation , yet after the dispersion , all the churches , act. . . had peace , and were edified , and multiplyed , and so the church of jerusalem also was multiplied , if all france be multiplied , paris which is a part of france must bee multiplied , and if there were many thousands of the jewes that did beleeve , act. . . though these many were for a great part come up to the feast at pentecost , as some thinke , yet may wee well thinke a huge number of these thousands were of the church of jerusalem : it is said , v. . they are informed of thee that thou teachest all the jewes which are amongst the gentiles to forsak moses , these belike were the jewes at jerusalem who heard that paul was come to jerusalem , and act. . . the word of god grew and multiplied ; it is the same phrase that is used , act. . v. . to expresse the multiplying of the church , by the multiplying of the word , for there is no other multiplication of the word but in the hearts of numbers who receive the word in faith . our brethren object ; . though there bee elders at jerusalem , act. . . v. . and act. . . yet that doth not prove an eldership o● a formall presbytery , even a presbytery of a classicall church doth not prove that these classicall elders are elders of a classicall church . answ. our brethren should give to us the measure which they take to themselves , for they prove from that which the scripture , act. . . doe name the elders of the church of ephesus that there was an eldership at ephesus , which governed all the people of ephesus ; and from bishops and deacons at philippi , phil. . . that there was an eldership in that church ; and from the angel of the church of smyrna , pergamus , thyrtira , &c. that there was a colledge of elders or a presbytery in those churches : for if those churches had elders in them , though they were in their meaning elders of a particular congregation , and so an eldership and a presbytery , they must give us the favour of the like consequence , in many of those churches , they had elders ; ergo , they had a presbyteriall or classicall eldership , and the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is as seldome in scripture to our brethren to prove their congregationall eldership , as it is to us to prove our presbyteriall or classicall eldership , and in this , jam sumns ergo pares ; and one government , and combination voluntary under one congregationall presbytery shall bee as hardly proven , as one government , and one voluntary combination of many congregations , and where the multitude is so numerous , as that they cannot meet in one , it is unpossible to prove that so many thousands did all agree , and that according to christs institution , to meet ordinarily in one for doctrine and discipline , whereas the meeting in one of so many thousands is most inconvenient . . an eldership doth prove there is a relation of those that make up the eldership to all the church distributively to which they have the relation of elders , but doth not prove that the eldership is an eldership in a church-relation to any one single person , and that that single person hath a reciprocall church relation to that eldership ; so here the classicall eldership carrieth a relation to a classicall church , and a classicall church doth retort and reflect a reciprocall relation to the eldership , but it doth not follow that every congregation of the classicall church doth reflect a reciprocall relation of a church classicall to either the classicall eldership , or to any one elder of the classicall presbytery . . they affirme , that there was no presbyteriall government exercised by the apostles in the church of jerusalem ; for they say , for the substance of the act ( it is true ) the apostles did governe as elders , that is , their acts of government were not different from the acts of government of ordinary elders : but the apostles did not governe under this formall reduplication as ordinary elders , but as apostles , because as apostles they were elders both in the church of jerusalem , and in all churches of the world : but this proveth not an ordinary eldership , titus at crete did but the ordinary acts of an ordinary elder at crete in appointing elders in every citie , yet this proveth not that there is in the successors of titus an ordinary episcopall government , for because of the extent of the apostles power to all churches on earth , you may from this prove as well an episcopall power as a presbyteriall power in an eldership over many congregations ; and before you prove a presbyteriall power you must prove an extent and an ordinary extent of an eldership over many congregations , which you shall never prove from the extent of the apostles power , which was universall and alike in all churches . i answer , if our brethren had formed their arguments in a syllogisme , i could more easily have answered , but i will doe it for them . those who did rule with an universall extent of power of government in all churches , these did rule as apostolick rulers , and not as ordinary presbyters , in the ruling and governing the church of jerusalem : but the apostles before the dispersion did rule thus , ergo , the apostles before the dispersion did rule as apostles , not as ordinary presbyters . the proposition they make good , because if those who rule with an universall extent of power , doe it not as apostles , they have then prelates to succeed them as ordinary officers in their extent of power and extent of pastorall care over many churches . but i answer by granting the major , and the probation of it in the connex proposition , because those who rule with an universall extent of power doe it as apostles , but i deny the assumption that the twelve apostles did rule the church of jerusalem with an universall extent of power over all churches ; for it is true , the apostles who did governe the church of jerusalem had an universall power over all churches , but that they did rule the church of jerusalem as having this universall power , and by virtue of this universall and apostolicall power , i utterly deny , and i deny it with the reduplication , and except our brethren prove that the apostles did governe the church of jerusalem as having this apostolick power , and under this reduplication , they doe not prove that they ruled as apostles , which is the conclusion to bee proven . now that i may give a solid reason of this , wee are to consider , what apostles doe as apostles and what as ordinary elders , as take along this rule with you , what apostles doe as apostles ; every one of the apostles his alone may doe , as quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , conv●nit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what ever agreeth to an apostle as ●● apostle , agreeth to all apostles , as because apostles may worke miracles , any one apostle may worke a miracle , so peter his alone , extra collegium , when hee is not with the twelve , hee may worke a miracle , his alone hee may speake with tongues , and his alone hee may preach and baptize through all the world , and therefore peter as an apostle , not as an ordinary elder doth raise the dead , speake with tongues , preach and baptize in all nations without any calling of the people or without consent of the presbytery ; but what the apostles doe as ordinary presbyters , and as a classicall colledge that by cannot doe in that relation , but in collegie : as the eye doth not see but as fixed in the head , so when the apostles do any thing in collegio , not without the suffrages of a colledge , that they must doe as ordinary elders ; for example , paul if hee delivered hymeneus and alexander his alone to satan , tim. . . as many thinke hee did , then hee did that as an apostle ; but suppose hee had beene present at corinth , cor. . to obey his owne epistle and direction that hee gave to excommunicate the incestuous man , hee should with the eldership of corinth delivered him to satan as an elder , not as an apostle ; yea in a presbyteriall way paul could not have delivered him to sathan without the concurring joynt suffrages of the eldership of corinth . so because act. . . . . the whole twelve doe call together the multitude , the whole twelve doe that as ordinary elders , which i prove , for if they had conveened them as apostles , by that transcendent apostolick power by which they preach and baptize in all the churches and by which they raise the dead , peter his alone might have conveened them ; so they ordaine elders by imposition of hands , as an ordinary eldership now doth , all the twelve doe it in a court , whereas if they had put on these seven men to bee deacons upon the people by vertue of their apostolick calling , they should not have convened the people , nor sought the free consent of the people ; for any one apostle his alone , as peter might , by the transcendent power of an apostle have ordained those seven men to bee deacons , but then hee should clearely have done it not in an ordinary church way , so now the apostles must , act. . governe as ordinary elders , also what the apostles do by the interveening help of ordinary perpetually established meanes , that they doe not as apostles but as ordinary elders , as they work not miracles by advise and consent of the multitude , because they do it as apostles , but here the twelve do all by the interveening help of the ordinary and perpetually established free voices of the multitude . . because the twelve apostles conveene . the apostles did nothing in vaine , and without warrant , any one of the twelve might have instituted the office , then that all the twelve conveene it must bee to give a pattern of an ordinary eldership ; for you never finde all the twelve meet to doe with joynt forces an apostolick worke , they never met all twelve to pen a portion of scripture , twelve of them , nor a colledge of them never met to raise the dead , to worke a miracle , to speake with tongues , because these bee workes above nature , and one is no lesse an instrument of omnipotencie to work a miracle , then . or . therefore wee must say that these twelve conveened as ordinary elders to bee a patterne of a presbytery . . the complaint is made by the grecians to the court , not to one apostle , for the whole twelve doth r●dresse the matter . . tht colledge hath a common hand in this government for the poore , as their words cleare . . it is no reason that wee should leave the word of god , and serve tables . . they put on the people what is their due , to looke out and nominate to them seven men , as apostles they should have chosen the men . . they doe put off themselves the charge of deaconrie , and the daily care , as v. . ergo they were before daily constant deacons , and why not elders also ? . they will doe nothing with out the free voices of people , and give to the people the ordinary election , this day , and to christs second comming , due to them , ergo , the apostles stoope beneath the spheare of apostolick power and condescend to popular power , and so must here bee as ordinary elders , not as apostles . . they doe ordaine seven men to be constant officers . . from this it is easie to deny that we may as well inferre prelates to be the lawfull successors of t●us whose power was universall in every church of crete , as to in●erre a presbyteriall power , because titus his alone 〈◊〉 an 〈◊〉 appointed elders ; and wee cannot inferre a monarchi● in the church , from some extraordinary acts of the the first planters of churches , because wee inferre from the aristocraticall and ordinary power of the apostles an aristocraticall power of presbyteries now in the church , shall wee hence inferre a monarchie ? . if the acts of government performed here , act. . by the apostles , bee extraordinary and apostolick , they are not imitable by us , but all divines teach that from act. . the ordinary presbytery may according to this very patterne ordaine deacons and elders . the reverend brethren object . the apostles did ordaine a new office here , to wit , an office of deacons , as all our divi●●s prove from the place , but the apostles as ordinary elders in an ordinary colledge presbyteriall cannot appoint a new office in the church , for the presbyteries now also by that same presbyteriall power might also appoint a new office in gods house which is absurd . answ. i grant that the apostles as apostles performe some acts of government in this place , and that they appoint a new office of deacons here , but that is neither the question , nor against our cause , but i desire the opponents to make good that the apostles did appoint this new office in a church-way , as they ordaine these seven men to the office , and that , in collegio . i aske did the apostles , . crave the concurrence of the conveened multitude , and their free voices shall wee appoint this new office , men and brethren , or shall wee for beare ? . did they voice the matter in a colledge amongst themselves , as they doe act. . and do they say amongst themselves in the presbytery apostolick , have wee warrant from christ to appoint a new office of deacons ? what is your mind peter , what is your sentence , james , matthias , & c ? now this is to proceed formally , in collegio , this they did not , nor could they doe in appointing the office , for they were immediatly inspired by the spirit to appoint new offices , but in ordaining the officers , in concreto , that is , in ordaining the men , steven , philip , &c. they proceed after a presbyteriall way , every way as an ordinary presbytery doth . object . but they ordaine elders here upon this apostolick ●round , because they were apostles and pastors to all the world , &c. if the ground was apostolick , the action was formally apostolick . answ. wee must distinguish betwixt ordination comparative and absolute : ordination comparative is in relation to the place , if the question bee , upon what ground doe the apostles ordaine in all the world ; i answer because they are apostles , and every where , ergo , they may ordaine every where ; but as for absolute ordination , here in jerusalem , if the question bewhy they did ordaine stephen , philip , &c. tali modo , by conveening the church ; i answer , because the apostles were elders . but our brethren say , then the apostles in this act laid downe their infallible apostolick spirit . i answer , they laid downe the ininfallible spirit , which they had as apostles , and tooke them to ● fallible spirit , but they did not operate and governe in this act , from this infallible spirit , but from an ordinary spirit , else you must say , . when the apostles did eate and drinke , they laid downe an infallible and apostolick spirit , and tooke an ordinary and fallible spirit , for they did not eate and drinke by immediate inspiration and as apostles , but as men ; . because they were apostles where ever they came , it shall follow by this that they did all by this apostolick spirit ; as if the question bee upon what ground , did the apostles every where baptize , pray pasi●a●●y , exhort as pastors , governe in corinth , deliver the incestuous man to satan at corinth ? if you answer , because they were apostles , then i say because they were apostles alwayes , and in every place , they never used the ordinary power of the keyes given to them , as common to them and all pastors to the end of the world , matth. . . matth. . . john . . and so they could not doe any thing as ordinary pastors , or ordinary elders . . christ gave to the apostles an ordinary power which they could never put forth in acts . we have no warrant from the apostles preaching , baptizing , exhorting , governing , retaining and remitting sinnes , excommunicating , rebuking , to preach , baptize , exhort , governe , retaine and remit sinnes , excommunicate and rebuke , because the apostles , in acts apostolick and extraordinary , are no more to bee imitated by us , then wee are to imitate them in speaking with divers tongues , and raising the dead . hence upon these grounds wee are certainly induced to beleeve that the apostles did here ordaine , not as apostles , but as ordinary elders ; . because in these acts the apostles are imitable , but in what they doe as apostles they are not imitable . . what ever rules of the word doth regulate the ordinary classicall presbytery , the apostles goe along in all these acts here condescending to these rules , such as the meeting of the presbytery , the twelve do meet . . they tacitely acknowledge a neglect of the daily ministration to the widowes which is an act of misgovernment of the deaconrie , which is an ordinary office of the presbytery , and therefore they desire of the church to bee freed of this office . . they referre the nomination and election of the seven men to the people . . they ordaine seven constant and perpetuall officers , as the presbytery doth , ergo , they doe not ordaine by their transcendent power , as apostles . . from this place our brethren prove their congregationall presbytery , which they would not doe , if the apostles did here manage aff●ires as extraordinary officers . . this colle●ium of apostles doe nothing in all this , which by confession of both sides may not bee done , and to the end of the world is not done in the transacting of the like businesse , by the ordinary presbytery . . what the apostles doe as apostles agreeth onely to apostles , and can be done by none but apostles , or by evangelists , having their power , by speciall warrantable commission from them , as what a man doth as a man , what a pastor doth as a pastor , a deacon as a deacon , a prophet as a prophet , can bee done by none but by a man onely , a pastor onely , a deacon onely , except whereas one act , as to teach , agreeth both to a pastor and a doctor , which yet have their owne differences , but all here done the apostles might have done , if wee suppose , they had not beene apostles . . if as apostles they ordaine , any one of the twelve apostles should compleatly and entirely ordaine all the seven , and so the seven deacons should have beene twelve times ordained at this time , which needles multiplication of apostolick actions were uselesse , served not for edification , and is not grounded in the word , for the whole twelve , in collegio , doe ordaine , and what any one apostle doth as an apostle by the amplitude of a transcendent power , every apostle doth it compleatly , and wholly his alone , as without helpe of another apostle , peter worketh a miracle , especially any one apostle as paul his alone might ordaine timothy an evangelist . . if they did here act as apostles , any one apostle might have ordained the deacons in an ordinary way , as here ; but that wee cannot conceive , for then one and the same action should have beene ordinary , and not ordinary , for one man cannot bee a church or a societie to doe the ordinary acts of an ordinary societie , for it should bee extraordinary to one to act that which is the formall act of many as many , and should involve a contradiction , except it were an act which cannot bee performed by many , as when one paster speaketh for many , for a whole church ; but that is ordinary and necessary , because a multitude as a multitude cannot speake , without confusion in a continuated discourse , for that all the people say one word ( amen ) is not a multitude as a multitude using one continuated speech . object . . if the apostles did not all their ministeriall acts as apostles , they did not fulfill their commission given to them , as to apostles , matth. . goe and teach all nations . answ. the consequence is nought , if they had not done all things , which by vertue of their apostolicall office they were commanded to doe , they had not then fulfilled their commission given to them by christ. that is true , but now the assumption is false , they were under no commandement of christ to doe all their ministeriall acts as apostles , prove that they did neither preach , nor baptize as apostles ; but only as apostles they did preach infallibly . . in all places of the world , as catholick pastors . . with the gift of tongues . . working of miracles , which by divine institution were annexed to their preaching , but their preaching according to the substance of the act was ordinary . object . . the apostles went to jerusalem by revelation , as paul did , gal. . ergo , all their acts that they did there , they did them by immediate revelation . answ. the consequence is null , paul went by revelation up to jerusalem , and there gal. . hee rebuked peter , as an apostle ? no , as a brother , for then paul should have exercised apostolick authority over peter , which is popish . object . . if the apostles did act as presbyters here , they did wrong the particular churches , and took their liberty from them , in exercising ordinary ministeriall acts there , which are proper to that church . answ. it followeth upon the denyed principles of an independent congregation onely , for a church without elders hath no presbyteriall power , and therefore such a power can not bee taken from it , you cannot take from a church , that which by law it hath not . if the acts of the government in the apostles , are according to the substance of the acts all one with the acts of government , in the ordinary presbytery ; ergo , say i , those acts come not from an apostolicall and extraordinary power , even as the apostles preaching and baptizing are not different in nature and essence , from the acts of preaching and baptizing in ordinary pastors , though they had power to preach and baptize every where , and wee onely where wee have an ordinary calling of the church , and from the apostles preaching and baptizing every where , wee may inferre , it is lawfull for the ordinary elders their successors to preach and baptize in some place , why may we not inferre because the apostles , in collegio , in one presbytery did ordaine ordinary officers , that we have thence a patterne for an ordinary presbytery ? object . . if there were no institution for preaching and baptizing , but onely the apostles naked practise , we were not warrantably to preach and baptize from the sole and naked example of the apostles . answ. shew us an institution for preaching and baptizing then , for that which we alledge is an institution , matth. . , . mark. . v. . to you is a commandement given to the apostles as apostles , as you said , in the . objection proponed by you , and therefore we have no more warrant to preach and baptize from the apostles example , then we have to work miracles , and because by the same reason of yours , christs command to his apostles to preach before his death , matth. . is not ordinary presbyteriall preaching , but conjoyned also with the power of casting out devills , matth. . , , . it must also upon the same ground bee a commandement given to the apostles not as ordinary pastors , but as apostles , if we compare matth. . , , . with mark. . , , , . if you flee to john baptist his practise of baptisme , . you are farther off then you were ; . what warrant more that john baptist his practise should warrant preaching and baptizing , if it want an institution , then the apostles preaching and baptizing when it is separated from an institution ? . this argument pincheth you as much as us , for a thousand times in your bookes , a warrant for our ordinary elders to preach and baptize is fetched from the sole practise of the apostles . . by this the argument for the christian salbath , from the apostles observing that day , shall also fall . . this also shall make us loose in fundamentalls of church government which are grounded upon the apostles practise . . the apostles had no apostolick and extraordinary ground which moved them to preach and baptize , according to the substance of the acts , for they did preach and baptize upon these morall and perpetuall motives and grounds which doe obliege ordinary elders to preach and baptize even to christs second comming , ergo , their very practise , not considered with the institution , is our patterne and rule . it is as evident that there was a presbyteriall church at ierusalem after the dispersion , seeing the dispersion , as we have proved did not re●rench them to one congregation , because our brethren doe conclude from a company of elders of the church of ephesus , acts . of ierusalem , from the angell of the church of pergamus , of thyatira a formall ordinary presbytery of ephesus , of ierusalem , of thyatira . let us have the favour of the same argument , upon the supposall of many congregations which the word doth warrant , and upon the supposall that it is called one church alwayes , as acts . . the lord added to the church , acts . . feare came upon all the church , acts . . there arose a great persecution against the church , acts . . herod stretched forth his hand to vex certaine of the church , v. . prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto god. acts . . and when they were come to jerusalem they were received of the church , and of the apostles and elders , acts. . . paul went up to jerusalem , and v. . the day following paul went in with us , into james , and all the elders were present . here be elders of the church of ierusalem , and ierusalem is named one church frequently , and alwayes before and after the dispersion ; it is called a church in the singular number , not onely in relation to persecuters , but also in relation to government , and because they were a politicall society to which there were many added acts . . and which hath elders acts . . acts . . . and a church-union in a constituted body hearing the word and receiving the sacraments , as this church did , acts . . is not a church but in regard of church-policy , and church-government . they reply , that enemies doe persecute the church , acts . . acts . . acts . . saul made havock of the church , that is , of the faithfull of the church , for saul had no regard in his persecution , to a church in their government , or church - combination , therefore the enemies are said to persecute the church materially . i answer , this objection i tooke off before . but . principally the enemies persecuted the church under the notion of ● society politicall holding forth in a visible church-profession their faith in christ , and that by hearing , receiving the seales , and subjecting themselves in a visible way obvious to the eye of all , to the government of the christian church , yea the enemies had no better character to discerne them to be saints , and so worthy of their malice , then church-characters of a church-profession . but . whereas the holy ghost giveth the name of one church , to the church of ierusalem , all constantly speaking of it both as a church , and in relation to persecuters , and that every way in that notion , as our brethren say , that the scripture speaketh of their own corgregationall church , wee have the same reason to call it one church , because of one government ; for the question is not now if it bee many congregations , but it it bee one church . object . . they are called the elders at jerusalem , not the elders of the church of jerusalem ; ergo , from this it is not concluded that they were one church . answ. acts . . they are called apostles and elders in , or at ierusalem acts . . for another cause , these were elders from other churches , from antioch no lesse , then elders of ierusalem , they onely sate in synod at ierusalem . . all ierusalem was not converted to the christian faith , and therefore they may well bee tearmed elders at ierusalem , as the church at ephesus , at , or in thyatira . . i deny that the scripture speaketh any other wayes of the elders of the church of ierusalem , then of the elders of other churches . . those elders ought to meete for the governing of the church of jerusalem , for this was their duty ; ergo , they were one presbytery . . they did meet acts . . to receive paul and barnabas , and to heare what god had done by them for their edification ; and acts . paul goeth to ierusalem and is received v. . by the brethren , but the next day , v. . the day following paul went in with us unto james and all the elders were present ; and there the elders doe presbyterially act for the removing of a church-scandall , v. . the believing jewes were informed that paul taught all the iewes which were amongst the gentiles to forsake moses . this was a publick scandall . . the offended multitude were to convene , v. . as plaintiffs . . the eldership ordaineth paul to remove the scandall by satisfying the offended , by purifying himselfe after the manner of the jewes , and it is cleare paul should not have satisfyed the scandalized iewes , except iames and the elders had injoyned him so to doe . . this the very course of a presbytery , yea , our brethrens doctrine , which a congregationall presbytery would , and doth take with any other person who doth give offence , yea though it be taken and not given , if the way of remedy be lawfull and expedient , as this presbytery conceived pauls purifying of himselfe to be , and if any scandalizing person should be disobedient to the voyce of a congregationall eldership , such as our brethren believe the eldership of jerusalem to be ; they would say they are to censure him , and therefore if paul should have beene disobedient to this , he should have incurred a censure ; it is true lorinus saith that chrysostome and oecumenius will have this to be a counsell , not a synod , to command paul , and they deny any juridicall power here , but v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to mee it is , they were gathered together : diodatus calleth them the colledge of the governours of the church , beda saith there were foure synods and hee maketh the synod acts . at the chusing of matthias the first , the second at the chusing of deacons acts . the third acts . and this the fourth , acts . . the text seemeth to mee to say it , for as acts . there was course taken for the gentiles that they should abstaine from blood , lest they should either scandalize , or bee scandalized ; so the eldership here taketh course that the infirme iewes be not scandalized , as is cleare , v. . as touching the gentiles which believe , we have written , &c. and to me they seeme to do both synodically , some thinke that this fact of the elders and paul was not lawfull : but how ever , though it was not a generall councell , a presbytery i take it to be taking course to remove a scandall from the weake iewes in this place , as they had by a synodicall power removed it from the gentiles , act. . it is objected by master mather , that if a church in an island by divine institution , and so this first founded congregation at jerusalem which did meete in salomons porch , had once an entire power of iurisdiction within it selfe , though in an extraordinary case . . the case is ordinary , as in the dominion of wales , there is scarce a congregation to be found within twenty or thirty miles . . suppose the case were extraordinary and rare , may they violate the ordinary rules of christ ? for so some may thinke and say , that though according to ordinary rules , baptisms and the lords supper must be dispensed only by men and by ministers , yet in the want of these , the one may be dispensed by a woman , or mid-wife , and both of them by such as are no ministers . answ. we thinke a ministery and discipline more necessary to a congregation in a remote island , or to the church of ierusalem before they increase to such a number as cannot meet for their numerous multitude in one congregation , then the sacraments , when there be no ministers to dispense them . . that the church be so in the island its alone , may possibly be extraordinary , but that in such a case they have the word preached and entire power of discipline whole and entire within themselves to excommunicate scandalous persons is not extraordinay , when there be no consociated churches , whom excommunication concerneth , that are in danger to be scandalized , for it floweth connaturally from a church to which agreeth the essence of a church , to exercise jurisdiction over all its owne members , if there be no more consociated with that church , that is by accident and an extraordinary exigence of gods providence . as a master of a family is to do his duty to educate his children in the feare of god ; but if god take all his children from him by death , he doth not transgresse the ordinary rule of educating his children in the feare of god , when hee hath none . this argument supposeth that a congregation hath no power of excommunication at all either compleat or incompleat , as the mid-wife hath no power to baptize at all either compleat or incompleat : neither doth a congregation transgresse any rule of christ at all when it exerciseth entire power of censures within it selfe , whereas there be no consociated churches to share with it in that power . a congregation is capable of entire jurisdiction , because it is a church ; but a woman in no case is capable of administrating baptisme , or the lords supper , except shee were extraordinarily and immediatly inspired to be a prophetesse , but for the exercise of entire power of jurisdicton by a congregation in a r●mote island , i hope , it hath no such need of immediate inspiration . . there is no such morall necessity of the sacraments , as there is of the ministery of the word and consequently of some use of the keys , where a scandalous person may infect the lords flock . for where vision ceaseth the people perish , but it is never said , where baptisme ceaseth the people perish , and therefore uncalled ministers in case of necessity , without ordination or calling from a presbytery may preach , and take on them the holy ministery and exercise power of jurisdiction , because the necessity of the soules of a congregation , in a remote island requireth so , but i hope no necessity in any the most extraordinary case requireth that a midwife may baptize , or that a private man remaining a private man may celebrate the lords supper to the church without any calling from the church . but mr. mather , if the power of iurisdiction flow immediately and necessarily from the essence of a church , and a congregation be essentially a church , then this power agreeth to all churches , whether consociated , or not consociated , and without respect of what neighbours they have , whether many , or few , whether any , or none . . a congregation its alone cannot have sole power of jurisdiction , and then be deprived of it , when god sendeth neighbour churches ; for then neighbouring churches which are given for helpe , should be given for losse , the contrary whereof ames saith . nor doe synods ( saith he ) constitute a new forme of a church . answ. power of iurisdiction floweth from the essence of a congregation in an iland ; ergo , a totall and compleat power of jurisdiction , floweth from the essence of a church or congregation consociated ; it followeth no wayes , so a pastor of a congregation hath as a pastor power to rebuke sinne , and to administrate the sacraments , ergo , when three pastors are added to help him , he hath the sole power of rebuking sinne , and the sole and entire power to administrate the sacraments , and none of these three pastors hath power with him , it followeth not ; and because these three pastors are added to help him and their pastorall power added to him is cumulative and auxiliary , but not privative or destructive of his pastorall power , therefore the first pastor suffereth losse by the addition of these three to him : who will say this ? our brethren do conceive the power of congregations , in its kind and essence , to be monarchicall , so as if any power from consociated congregations be added thereunto , the congregations power monarchicall is d minished ; and the essence of it changed . . compleat and entire power to rule both the congregation and the members of consociated churches in so far as they do keep communion with that congregation , and may either edifie , or scandalize them , floweth not immediatly and necessarily from the essence of every congregation even in remote islands not consociated with others , that we never said . . a power to governe well , and according to the rule of the word added to another power to governe well and according to the word , is an auxiliary power and no way destrective of that power , to which it is added , indeed a power to governe well , added to a power of male administration in a congregation is distructive of that power , and reason it should be so , because christ never gave any such power of male administration to a congregation ; but a power of right governing , added to a power of right governing is neither destructive thereof , nor doth it constitute a new forme of a church , or a church - power , but only inlarge the pr●existent form to extend it selfe farther , for the edification of more soules . but ( saith mr. mather ) if it be against the light of nature that the adverse party be the sole judge which must be , if the s●le power of iurisdiction be in the congregation ( as we grant in an extraordinary case , when a congregation is in an island its alone ) and so it shall be lawfull for a single congregation to doe that which is against all equity and the very light of nature , it must then follow that it is not against the light of nature that a congregation ( though consociated with other congregations ) have entire jurisdiction within it selfe . answ. none of us do teach that it is against the light of nature that the adverse party be the judge , it might fall out in a generall councell lawfully convened , from which there is no provocation , yea and in a nationall councell , ( for all councels may erre ) the adverse party may judge , as it was a lawfull councell according to a church-constitution that condemned christ of blisphemy , and they were also his enemies ; but we teach that it is not congruous to the wisdome of christ , nor to the light of nature , that christ should have appointed all the ordinary churchcourts , so many thousand congregations , who may rather erre then extraordinary and higher synods , to be the onely ordinary judges in their owne cause ; nor doth any thing more follow from this argument , that when there is one congregation its alone in an iland destitute of the helpe of consociated churches ( which is a defect of an extraordinary providence of christ in that one singular exigence ) that that congregation shall be both judge and party in its owne cause , if we suppose that one micaiah shall contend for the truth , and all the rest of the prophets and people of that congregation to be against the truth , and to judge and condemne one man , who seeketh the lord in truth . it is a wonder to me that thessalonica was but one single congregation , all hearing one word , partakers of one lords supper at one table ; yet the apostle ascribeth to them that which is a note to worthy baynes of the numerous multitude of the church of ierusalem , from whence went the word of god to all the world , thes. . . for from you sounded out the word of the lord , not onely in macedonia and achaia , but also in every place your faith to god-ward is spread abroad . i deny not what mr. mather and thomson say , but may meet to heare the word , and many thousands were gathered together luke . to heare christ ; but these reverend brethren doe leave out , . the inconvenience of thronging so all at once ; for , they trode one upon another . . christ preached not to all those thousand at once , for it is expresly said , v. . he began to say to his disciples . so christ refusing to preach to such a disorderly confluence of people , who could not heare , and his doctrine being all for his disciples , the very sermon being preached to his disciples onely , matth. . , , , &c. and the parable of the rich man v. . he applieth to his disciples , then he said to his disciples , therefore i say unto you , take no thought for your life , &c. it evidenceth to me that christ condemneth a numerous multitude in one congregation to heare at once . and whereas chrysostome saith , persons did heare his voyce , at once , in one congregation , by meanes of scaffolds and galleries ; and mr. mather is willing to yeeld eight thousand an hundred and twenty were all assembled in one place to heare the word , and that all the multitude of converts at ierusalem were together in salomons porch , act. . . i grant three thousand could heare one at once ; but alas , this is a great uncertainty for independent congregations . but . this is to be proved that eight thousand ( mr. mather hath not added many other multitudes mentioned , act. . . act. . . v. . and elsewhere ) did meet daily in the temple . . daily and ordinarily from house to house . . to celebrate the lords supper daily in the temple and in every private house ( there were need of many scaffolds and galleries ) to sit at one table . . to make one judicature , and have more then power of consenting in church . censures , as our brethren prove the whole church of beleevers had , from matth. . . cor. . . act. . . cor. . . for my part i thinke such a miraculous church cannot be the first mould of independent churches to be established congregations meeting in one place , for to be edified by word , seales and censures . yea mr. mather will have the whole convening as one independent congregation act. . , , . and the many myriades or thousands of beleeving jewes , act. . , , . to meet as one congregation . certainly the apostles practice must be our rule , and then five hundred or a thousand being so farre beneath ten or eight thousand , may wel seem a number for fewnesse not competent ; and what shall we then thinke of seven onely , or ten ? now let it be considered , if rome being granted to be one church , and in which to me there was a congregation and church in the very family of aquila and priscilla , rom. . v. . and whose faith was spread through all the world , rom. . . so as famous writers say the halfe of the city beleeved , if they be but one single congregation meeting all in one place ? ard to me it is cleare , there was a single congregation in the very house of aquila and priscilla , act. . , , . v. , . and that paul preached when he was there daily , beside his disputing in the synagogue ; when he was at rome there was a church at his house , rom. . . so diodati saith on the place , that the church at aquila his house was the assembly of beleevers , who assembled themselves in their house ; for there were divers small assemblies in one and the selfe same city , cor. . . col. . . greet the church that is at their house . col. . . salute nymphus , and the church at his house . where paul speaketh of believers only in a house , he giveth them not the name of a church , as ro. . . salute them that are of aristobulus houshold . v. . greet them that are of the houshold of narcissus . phil. . . all the saints salute you , especially those that are of caesars house . i desire to know a reason of the difference of this grammar , if there were no constituted church in the house of aquila and priscilla , why in one chapter the apostle should change the phrase ? and i desire know what reason we have to goe from the literall meaning of the word , that is , a church at aquila his house , as well as a church at c●rinth . for whereas some say that rom. . . he saluteth not all of the house of narcissus , but onely v. . those which are is the lord ; . this exception is not brought concerning the house of aristobulus , v. . this exception confirmeth what i say , because where there is not a church and an institured society and politicall church-meeting in the house of any of the saint , there they are called beleevers of such a house , and not a church at such a house . . this phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used rom. . . cor. . . col. . . phile. . must be the same with the saints assemblea for the word & sacraments . act. . . in the temple , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from house to house daily , and it must be allope with act. . . where they continued daily in the temple with one accord , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and breaking bread from house to house ; and all one with the assembly of disciples act . . where they assembled for the word and sacrament of the supper , especially seeing as the learned acknowledge , the christians could not have temples or houses built for the publique assemblies of the saints as rome and corinth , but they met in private houses ; which seeing it cannot be denied , then were there at rome two churches at least ; one at the house of aquila and priscilla , cor. . . and another also pertaining to the rest of the saints at rome . and this saith , that if there had beene but one single congregation at rome , whereas one family had a church , c. . and so many illustrious families received the faith of christ , it is like their faith could not have been published through all the world , rom. . . if the christian faith had not had a greater prevalency in comparison of the false god● then worshipped at rome , then to be in one poore single meeting . and for the church of corinth , i humbly conceive they could not be one single congregation , if these foure circumstances be considered : . the multitude of beleevers there . . the multitude of teacher● . . the diversity of tongues . . a presbyteriall meeting of prophets , cor. . for the first , act. . . many of the corinthians believed , and were baptized . now if we shall believe that the apostolique church conjoyned preaching and baptizing , the word and the sacraments ; and that the apostles baptized none but those to whom they preached , i conceive it cannot be denied but there were divers assemblies for the word and the sacrament ; for paul , cor. . . baptized n●ne but crispus and gaius , and the houshold of stephanus ; it many were baptized , other pastors , not paul baptized them , cor. . , , . and so they were baptized in other assemblies , then in those in which paul baptized . . it is cleare that to comfort paul whose spirit could not but be heavy , as you may gather from rom. . , . because he was act. . , . resisted so in his ministery by the blasphemies of the jewes rejecting the gospel , that he shooke his rayment on them , and said , your blood be upon your owne heads , i am cleane ; from henceforth i will goe to the gentiles ; the lord saith unto him in a vision , . be not afraid , but speake , and hold not thy peace , . for i am with thee , and no man shall set on thee , for i have much people in this city . . and he continued there a yeere and six moneths , teaching the word amongst them . now let this in equity be considered , if the gaining of one single congregation which meet for the word , sacraments , cor. . , , . cor. . . and also to acts of church-censures cor. . . as our brethren teach , which could not exceed one thousand conveniently in a setled and daily meeting , had first been much people ; secondly , much , in comparison of thousands of the jewes who rejected the lord jesus , as may be gathered from comparing act. . , . and act. . , , . with act. . ● . where it is said , many thousands of the jewes believed , for the greatest part of the iewes rejected christ , as is cleare thess. . . . . and so many more thousands behoved to reject christ then believed ? now what comfort could paul have had in this , that many thousands of the jewes rejected the gospell , and yet all the much people that god had in corinth were but fo●soot● to the number of one compleat assembly of a single congregation , which did meet in a private house , for the celebration of the lords supper ? for piscator with all our divines , cor. teach that their were no capacious temples in corinth , where they did meet for gods worship . . judge if one single congregation ( for the congregations planted by the apostles behoved to be competent , and convenient for edification , that all might heare and all partake of one bread , cor. . . and one table of the lord , v. . ) could necessitate paul to stay at corinth a yeare and six moneths , when as paul by one sermon made in a certaine mans house named justus did bring many to believe and be baptized , acts . . and these many might conveniently make a congregation beside the much people that god had there , v. . not yet called , but yet they were , as interpreters say , the lords people , by gods decree of predestination . . the multitude of teachers proveth that their were more congregation then one ; for . it is incongruous to the wisdome of christ to raise up many reapers , where the harvest is narrow , many builders for one congregationall house . . it is contrary to christs practice , who sent not twelve pastors to one place , but sent them out two by two , that all might find worke : now can we thinke , that where god had much people , as acts . . that he would have hundreths of prophets to be hearers and one at once to speak to one single congregation ? to what end gave the lord a talent to such a huge multitude of prophets ? that they might be oftener hearers , then they could be in actuall prophecying ? it is not like . . whereas it is said , cor. . . you may all prophecy one by one , that all may learne , and all may be comforted , di●datus saith , yee may all prophecy , namely by course and in diverse or severall assemblies . and estius saith the same , to wit , that these prophets were to prophecy in diverse assemblies ; and for this it is that he saith , v : . let your women 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 keepe silence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the churches ; ergo , he supposeth there were more congregations then one at corinth ; nor is there reason to say with some , he speaketh of churches in the plurall number , because he made mention of all the churches of the saints in the verse going before , for . he saith , your wom●n , let them be silent : now if he had not meant that there were many congregations at corinth , he would not have forbidden it in their women , but of all women , and it is knowen there was a great abuse of spirituall gifts in corinth , so as women did prophecy in the assemblies , and this the apostle forbiddeth in their churches in the pl●● all number . and i pray you what roome or place was there for such a multitude of prophets to edifie the churches in one private house ? for there were no temples where they might meet at corinth . . if kenchrea be comprehended under the church of corinth in this epistle , and the apostle writing to the corinthians wrote also to this church called romans . . the church at kenchrea , then have we more congregations then one at corinth . now the learned teach that kenchrea was a sea-port or harbour of the corinthians , a origen saith it was a place neer to corinth . off the aegean sea one the east , and as b strabo saith , ad sinum saronicum , as lechea was the other port . see c plinius . and the multitude of teachers ( i humbly conceive ) which did preach at korinth may be gathered from cor. . . cor. . . . cor. . , . cor. . , . cor. . where there are multitudes of these who were all gifted to edifie others , as those who spake with tongues , wrought miracles , had the gift of healing . and so many prophets that paul saith , v. . for yee may all prophecy , that all may lear●e , and all may be comforted , if these ( all ) who were to learne , and to be comforted be the much people which god had in this city acts . . and this ( all ) to be instructed and comforted , i have no farther to say . and . i can hardly believe that the end why god sent the gift of diverse tongues amongst them was to e●ifie one single congregation : for it is true that our brethren say , that corinthia●s vers . . . tongues are for a signe , not to them that believe , but to them that believe not . but that which they hence collect is most groundlesse , to wit , that therefore the gift of tongues , according to its genuine end and intention is onely a miracle for the gaining of heathen to the faith , and not intended to edifie the church and people of a strange language , after they are brought in to the church , and therefore there is no ground for people of divers congregations to be instructed by strange tongues . ans. the whole current of divines answer , ( as also estius observeth on the place ) tongues are given especially for infidels , ut novitate mirac●li convertantur , that by the newnesse of the miracle they may be converted , though also tongues serve to instruct these who believe , and consequently ; say i , that the churches of divers tongues may be edified . and let me adde that strange tongues were a mixt miracle . i say mixt , because both they were given to be a miraculous signe to assure heathen , that the sending downe of the holy ghost was a miraculous fruit of christs ascension to heaven ; who promised that when he was ascended to the father , he would send the other comforter , as is cleare acts , , , . and also it was so a miracle that paul proveth that it is fruitlesse and wanteth the naturall and genuine end of speech and an humane voyce in the church , if it edifie not , as . tongues edifie not the church , except you speak to these who know the language , or except there be an interpreter , for other ways the speaker with tongues shall be as a barbarian to these to whom ●e speaketh , and they as barbarians to him cor. . . . , , . he that speaketh with tongues is to pray that he may interpret , v. . that he may edifie the church . . he that speaketh with tongues , if he be not understood , is fruitlesse and uselesse to others , because the hearers can neither say amen to his preaching , nor to his praying , v. . , , . ( ) except a man teach others , his gift of tongues teacheth not the church , v. , . ( ) strange tongues in the church when the hearers understand not , are a judgement of god rather then an edifying of the church , v. . & c. hence it is more then evident , that the edifying end , why the lord had raised up these in the church of corinth , ( which was now a planted and watered church , cor. . . ch . , , . and a building , the foundation whereof was layd , v. . , , &c. ) was that the church might be edified . and so the gift of tongues , as touching its edifying use and end , was fruitlesse , and of no effect ; yea as we teach against papists , unlawfull in gods publick worship , except there had been diverse assemblies and congregations , which understood these tongues . nor can it be said , that all in corinth understood greeke . and therefore these of divers tongues might be understood by all : for . this layeth a ground that there was no tongue a strange tongue , but the greeke tongue . . that all speaking with strange tongues was well understood , whereas the apostle sayth the contrary , v. . , . v. . v. . that many spake with tongues in that church , and yet the hearers could not say amen to them , nor be edified by their preaching or praying , v. . if then strange tongues were gifts of god given to that planted church to edifie these who believed , and to edifie the church , as well as to gaine heathen , there must needs be divers congregations at corinth , and therefore i cannot but thinke that weak which mr. mather ; and mr. thomson say ; but the place , cor. . . that speaketh of the whole church comming together to one place doth unavaydably prove , that corinth had their meetings , and not by way of distribution into severall congregations , but altogether in one congregation : and it is plaine , that though they had variety of teachers and prophets . yet they all used to c●●●e together to one place . i answ . . the place , cor. . . if the whole church come together , &c. doth evince the contrary , for the apostle doth there reason ab absurdo , from a great incongruity ; it were incongruous ( saith he ) and ridiculous that the whole church of corinth , and all their gifted men speaking with diverse tongues ( so that they could not be understood by infidells ) should all convene in one place , and speake with divers tongues , for the unlearned and the unbelievers would say they were madde ; therefore hee presupposeth that the whole church should not all come to one place , but that they should so come to one place v. . in diverse assemblies , and all prophecy in a tongue knowen to the infidells , as the unbeliever being convinced and judged of all the prophers . he might fall down on his face , and worship god , and say , god is in you of a truth . . the whole church is not the whole , much people of corinth that believed , that did ordinarily meet in one place ; the text saith no such thing , and that is to be proved and not taken as granted , and so the consequence is most avoydable ; for . you must say that at any one assembly , all the prophets and teachers of corinth did prophecy , for the text saith , v. . he is convinced of all , he is judged of all . whereas the consequence should be absurd , it should be a longesome and we●●● some meeting ; for interpreters say they meet in diverse assemblies , and the text saith expresly , v. . that at one meeting they prophecied , but two or three : now if two only prophecied in one congregation at one assembly , as this text will warrant clearely , then how doth this whole church consisting of all the believers of corinth , a● is supposed by our brethren , convince the infidell , so as it may beare this sense , v. . he is convinced of all , he is judged of all ? can two prophets be all prophets ? and how doth it be●re this v. . but if all prophesie , & c ? surely , for my part , i think it must unavoydably be said , that they all prophecied distributively and in severall congregations . and it is very probable to me , that as women prophecied , so many prophecied at once , and that the apostle correcteth their abuse , when he will have them to prophecy by course , v. . and that too numerous a multitude did prophecy in one assembly , and therefore the apostle reducing this church to order , retrencheth the number v. . to two or three , and so this which he saith v. . for you may all prophecy one by one , &c. must unavoydably be understood distributively in divers congregations and assemblies , and so must we take the words where it is said , v. . all the prophets convince , all judge , distributively ; and the whole church v. . by this cannot beare this sense , that the whole church of corinth comprehending the the whole prophets . teachers , and ●elievers , did all collectively meet in one single assembly . and that the much people which the lord had at corinth , acts . . was one society partaking of one table of the lord , in one private house , and all in one consistory judging and censuring and excommunicating . lastly , i thinke ( with reverence of the learneder ) that these prophets were a colledge of teaching prophets whose gifts were imployed in edifying severall congregations ; only some , say they , were prophets extrordinarily inspired . . they were not prophets of the church of corinth , and therefore are not any patterne of a presbytery , but i answer . . though they were prophets extraordinarily inspired , yet do they prove well some ordinary acts of a presbytery , and that . they were prophets of that same church of corinth , i conceive ; for they do here prophecy according to the analogy of faith , and that they have common with prophets now adayes . . they are by these same rules regulated that our pastors are now . . they exercise these same acts of jurisdiction which pastors do now exercise . . they are to prophecy in a knowen tongue , v. . , , ▪ and that the edification and comfort of the church , ● . . even as p●stors now adayes , only the internall principle , to wit , the insused gift of prophecying made them extraordinary prophets , in fi●ri , as our prophets become prophets by ordinary industry and studies , in furi : but in facto esse , and according to the substance of the acts of prophecying , these extraordinary prophets , and our ordinary prophets and pastors differ not in specie and nature . as the eyes put in the man borne blind ioh. . and these eyes which we suppose he was capable of from his mothers wombe , and the wine miraculously made out of water by iesus christ , ioh. . and the wines that grew in iudea , according to their manner of production and in fieri differed , but in facto esse they were of the same nature . hence you see in the text these prophets are every way regulated as ordinary prophets , and as the prophets of the church of corinth . because it is acknowledged by all interpreters that the scope of the chapter is to prescribe what is order and decency in the publick worship in the church of corinth ; as the last verse saith , v. . let all things be done decently and in order , and consequently how these prophets should edifie the church of corinth , v. . , . ( ● ) that these prophets should not speake in publick the language of barbar●an , v. , . to the which the hearer could not say amen , v. . and this way are our ordinary prophets regulated , except that papists will but say service in latine , ( ) a direction is put on the prophets , on these who speake with tongues , that they be not children in understanding , and that they be , in malice , as children , but as concerning understanding , men , v. . which agreeth well to prophets as they are ordinary pastors . ( ) what more ordinary , then the comming together of the whole church for prophecying , v. . . and convincing of unbelievers ? a● . ( ) the prophets are to be limited to a way of speaking to edification , as he who speaketh with tongues , who must speake by an interpreter , or then be silent in the church , v. . . ( ) these prophets , a● our ordinary prophets , must speake orderly , and that but one at once , to eschew confusion , v. . ( ) what they speake is to be judged and put under censure , for the whole colledge must judge , v. . . ( ) and as the women are here put under a rule , when to speak , and when to be silent , v. . . so are these prophets , all which , and divers other rules doe regulate our ordinary prophets , which clearely saith to me , that this is a patterne of a colledge of ordinary prophets under that same policy and rules of policy as the ordinary colledge of pastors at corinth , and . to this colledge agreeth a power dogmaticall of judging , and censuring the doctrine of the prophets delivered , . let the prophets speak two or three , and let the other judge . this is not a power of judging that every christian hath . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith piscator , doth relate to the prophets who are to judge ; but ( as i take it ) a propheticall judging , which may , by good anology , warrant the juridicall power of a presbytery to judge and examine these who preach the word , that there creep not in false teachers into the church . and for ephesus . the huge number of believers and yet making one church , rev. . . saith that ephesus was a presbyteriall church as many circumstances evince , acts . for . . paul established twelve men prophets who spake with tongues , and prophecied . to what end did paul set up twelve labourers at epheseus , with diverse languages , but to establish divers assemblies ? did they all meet dayly in one house with paul to heare him , and turned silent prophets themselves , when they were indeed with the gift of tongues to speake to the edification of assemblies of divers tongues ? it is not credible . . and v. . paul continued here for the space of two yeares , ( and was this for one competent number , who did all meet in one private house ? how can this be credible ? ) . all that dwelt in asia heard the word of the lord iesus , both jewes and greeks , then in great ephesus there behoved to be more then one congregation . . the great miracles done by paul. v. . . to admiration of all , and to procure the imitation of false prophets . . the name of the lord iesus was magnified by the iewes and greeks that dwelt at ephesus . . there behoved to be a great work of god , when great ephesus turned to the faith . it is , . remarkable that christ the wisdome of the father directed his apostles to the most famous cities , to cast out their nets , for conquering of soules to christ , as in indea they came to samaria , and to great jerusalem ; in syria to antiochia , in grecia to corinth , in italy to rome , in asia the lesse to ephesus ; now the scripture is cleare the apostles , that ever we read , planted but one church , as is cleare in one city in ierusalem , in antiochia , in corinth , in rome , in ephesus : and observe , the basis and prime principle of our brethrens independent churches doth all ly upon this meer conjecture , that the lords grace did restrict and limit the fruits of the triumphing gospell , in the hands of the apostles the conquerors of the world to iesus christ , that they planted but in the greatest cities they came to ( and they appoynted elders in every city ) onely one poore single congregation , as a patterne of all independent churches , and this consisted of no more then could meet conveniently in one house for word , sacraments , one lords table , and one ecclesiasticall church - court for censures . certainly this church being a patterne to all instituted churches , could not exceed the number of a thousand men , or two thousand believers , and this is a greater number by some hundreds , i am sure , then can make a competent church-meeting , and i hope no man could say we erred , if we should now make eight or ten thousand one congregation in ordinary , as our brethren say the first congregationall church of jerusalem wa● . b●t . . this city was the mother city and flower of asia . . it was noble , because of diana's temple , the length whereof was foure hundred and twenty five foot , the breadth two hundred and twenty foot , the pillars were an hundred and twenty seven , the height of every pillar was sixty foot . amongst which there were thirty pillars most curiously carded . others say they were an hundred and thirty seven pillars made by severall kings , the temple was built by all asia for the space of two hundred and twenty , ( some say ) fourty yeares . it was inlarged by alexander ; and thither came all asia the lesse to the temple of great diana . for they had no other religion , here dwelt the proconsull of asia , as saith a philostratus , it abounded with artes and sciences , philosophers and orators , b chrysostom saith that in it were pythagaras , parmenides , zeno , democritus , it was compassed with excellent cities , and noble for asiatick commodities , see c plinius , and d alexander neopolitanus , e ignatius highly commendth it from the purity of the gospell . all this i relate not as an unpertient digression , but to shew that the gospell behoved to be more mighty here ; then that paul set up but one single congregation and an eldership congregationall only , acts . . v. . . especially consider what beasts paul fought with at ephesus , for here were many jewes who opposed him . . all the multitude , by the instigation of demetrius , avowing that their diana was the goddesse not only of ephesus but of all asia ; yet god made the word so mightily to prevaile , for v. . paul remaining there by the space of two yeares , all that dwelt in asia heard the word of the lord , both jewes and greeks . i aske how it could stand with pauls universall commission to preach to iew and gentiles , cor. . . . as an apostle , to ●em●ine neere three years at ephesus for one single congregation , and the erecting of one congregationall presbytery ? . we see how zealously mad they have been on their religion , when they had such a curious temple for diana . and . demetrius and the crafts had their living by making silver shrines to diana . and . what power of the gospell it behoved to be , which made their learned men who used curious arts , to submit to the gospell and bring their books and burne them before all men ? and the sums of these books extended to a great sum of mony , the common people ordinarily follow the learned and the wise of the city and land ; this could not have been done except the far greater part of the city had submitted to the gospell , for when they were well neer ready to tear paul in peeces , they behoved to be wounderfully tamed , when many believed , and came and confessed and shewed their deeds , v. . baynes com . on . ch . ephes. saith , ephesus was a city sogiven to riot that it banished hermodor . upon no other consideration , but because he was an honest sober man ; and also paul cor. . saith , v. . for a great doore and effectuall is open to me at ephesus , this was , as all interpreters protestant and popish say , uno ore , a large harvest . upon these considerations , i leave to our reverend brethren their judgement : if mr. mather , and mr. thomson say right , we doe not thinke they were more in number at ephesus , then in corinth and ierusalem , where the christians met all in one place . likewise samaria a numerous city was one church , for that it is said of them , acts , , . they heard philip , v. . samaria received the word , it was a publick visible churchreceiving of the word ; and v. . they believed and were baptized both men and women . where a multitude no better then heathen as samaria was , receive the seale of the covenant , to wit baptisme , they must receive it in a church-way , except we thinke that promiscuously all come to age were received to the seales , and when peter and iohn came to samaria to helpe philip in the worke , it cannot be that they all went to one house , and to one single assembly to preach the word ; the church of antiochia must be a presbyteriall church , a● it is acts . v. . . for the multitude of believers may be collected from these who were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about steven — — when they were come to antioch , spaks unto the grecians preaching the lord jesus . . and the hand of the lord was with them : and a great number believed and turned to the lord. this is not like to be one congregation , seeing they are , . much people . . many scattered preachers . . and the hand of the lord accompained their labours . v. . when barnabas , sent by the church of ierusasalem , came and saw the grace of god , he exhorted them all , that with purpose of heart they would cleave to the lord , and upon barnabas his preaching , v. . — much people was added to the lord. here is a second accession made to the church of antioch . ( ) v. . then departed barnabas to tarsus to seek saul . . and when hee had found him , hee brought him to antioch . and it came to passe that a whole yeare they assembled themselves with the church , and taught much people ( here is a third accession ; ) and such a huge multiplication , that the church of antioch giveth a denomination of christianity to all the christian churches of the world. all which saith , it cannot be one poore single congregation , for there was at least , if not more then one congregation at antioch , when tidings came to jerusalem that the lord had a church at antioch , before they sent barnabas to these churches , v. . and what might this church grow to when much people was added to the lord , by the labours of barnabas ? v. . and how was it increased when barnabas and paul after that taught the word to much people a whole yeare ? v. . it grew after that a great church , so that a chrysostom commendeth antioch for the prime church . and b oecumenius saith , for this cause there was a patriarch appointed at antioch , which certainly sayth thus much , that it was a more numerous church then one single congregation , and c cyrillus so extolled the church of antioch , because the disciples were first named christians there , that he saith , this was the new name that esaiah said the mouth of the lord d should name , and so doth e hilarius expound the text ; which , seeing it is clearely the new glory of the church of the gentiles , adjoyned to the church of the iewes , it cannot arise from a handfull of a single congregation , in the mind of these fathers , and though we love not with some antiquity to make antioch the first church before rome ; yet seeing it was of old before rome , we may hence collect that that church which was patriarchall , was not congregationall , and therefore i make no use hereof , f volaterranus who saith of old the patriarch of antioch had under him . metropolitans , . bishops , and temples , onely it is like that antiquity hath believed that there was a great number of believers in this church at first . now to these , which to mee prove it was more then one congregation , wee may adde that there was , ch. . . in the church that was at antioch , certaine prophets and teachers , as they are reckoned out ; these at antioch ministered to the lord , in publick prayers ( saith g beza ) and preaching , and ( saith n diodatus ) in administration also of the sacraments , and other parts of the evangelick ministery i oecumenius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now i would know what all these prophets and doctors , beside paul and barnabas who preached a whole yeare at antioch , did , in peaching to one single congregation ? and also it is said , acts . . paul and barnabas continued at antioch , teaching and preaching the word of lord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with also many others . certainly here is a colledge of preaching pastors , who also did lay hands on paul and barnabas , acts . v. . which all could not be busied in teaching one single congregation at antioch . mr. mather saith that the whole multitude of the church of antioch were gathered together acts . . and acts . , . to heare the epistle read which was sent from the synod . therefore this church was no more then might meete in one place . answ. i answer , the place acts . . is the representative church , for they met for a poynt of discipline , at least for a matter that concerned all the churches , to wit , to know how god had opened the doore of faith to the gentiles , then must the many thousands of men and women , which made up the church at ierusalem , acts . . acts . . acts . . acts . . v. . acts . v. . be many congregations ; now any man may judge , how unpossible it was for the many thousands of the church of ierusalem to meet as one congregation , for the lords supper and matters of discipline , and it is knowen that the many thousands of the believing iewes convened to the feast did not make one church , acts . . , . for our brethren say , that was an extraordinary confluence of many people from all ●udea came to the feast of pentecost . and this , many learned protestant divines answer to that place . but . i doe believe that the assembling of the multitude at antioch , c. . v. . which sayth judas and silas gathered to●ether the multitude , and delivered the epistle , and acts . . and barnabas and paul their assembling with the church a yeare , must be taken distributively . and that there were more assemblings of the multitude and church at antioch then one , for silas , paul , barnabas abode a good space at antioch and taught the word of the lord with many others , acts . . and therefore there is no ground or warrant , to say , that the epistle was read to all that meeting in one day , and at one meeting , and as little warrant there is to say that barnabas and paul assembled themselves , acts . . with one and the same single church-assembly consisting of all the christians at antioch , in one house , and in one day , the space of the whole yeare in which they abode at antioch , nor shall i believe that paul and barnabas and many other teachers at antioch , acts . . acts . , . acts . , , , . assembled all in one materiall house at one single church-convention : but it suteth not with the wisdome of christ who sent his disciples out , two by two , for the hastening of the worke , mat. . that they did all , even the many prophets at antioch , acts . . acts . . . onely bestow their labours upon one single congregation . and the word church , and ( synagogue ) both are taken distributively in the scripture , and must of necessity be taken so . and so must we take the word , exod. . . and so a ainsworth readeth it , and the ( lambe ) shall be kept by you , untill the fourteenth day of this moneth , and the whole church of the congregation of israel shall kill it . between the two evenings , & immolabunt eum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b arias montanus turneth it , omnis cetus catus synagogae israel . now the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that place must be taken distributively . for all the children of israel collectively did not meet to slay the lambe ; for the text saith , v. . it was to be slaine in the house , that is , ( saith c ainsworth ) as the greeke translateth , houses . and here v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the house of their fathers . the word ( house ) here must bee taken distributively for d rivetus with great reason inclineth to thinke that the passeover was not a sacrifice properly so called . and truly to me the lord doth determine the question , jer. . . for i spake not to your fathers , nor commanded them in the day that i brought them out of the land of egypt concerning burnt offerings and sacrifice , for chro. , v. . . there is no necessity to expound the place of these convivall lambes of the passeover , but of other sacrifices offered at this time , see e lyran , and f cajetanus . and also g cornelius a lapide saith on the words ( because he can find no ground for the mosse in the place ) hinc pate● universos sacerdotes non immolasse hos agnos paschales in templo , uti sentit claudius sainctes , . repet . eucharist . c. . abulensis in exod. . & ex eo serrarius in josu . . . . and it is certaine every master of the family did slay his owne lambe , and h diodatus on these words ( in every house ) to shew the communion of the church , in the enjoying of christ and his benefi●s . and the i seventy interpreters render the place , exo. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and k the chaldee paraphrast , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 immolabunt eum omnis ecclesia filiorum israel . l hieron . immolabit eum universa multitudo filiorum israel . however , there were neither priests nor temple as yet in israel , when they came out of egypt . and therefore every head of a family did slay the lambe , and so the church of the congregation distributively taken slew the lambe , every one by himselfe ; and so is the word ( synagogue ) taken where it s every way a congregationall assembly ; as mat. . . and when hee was come to his owne country , he taught them in their synagogue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the word ( synagogue ) must be taken distributively . for he did not teach in one single synagogue onely in his own countrey , but in many synagogues , one after another , in diverse places , and at divers times ; as it is expounded , luke . . and hee was preacking , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the sgnagogues of galilee , in the plurall number , mat. . . he went about all townes and villages teaching in their synagogues , &c. joh. . . i ever taught in the synagogues , and dayly in the temple whither the iewes alwayes refort . and therefore ( synagogue ) mat. . . in the singular number must be expounded distributively , for many synagogues in diverse places and diverse times , and so doe i thinke the word ( church ) and muluitude acts . . acts . . must be taken distributively ; and so the word church is taken . cor. . . yet in the church i had rather speak five words with my understanding , that i may teach others , then ten thousand words in an unknowen tongue . paul ( i hope ) desired not to speake in a knowen tongue to edifie in one single congregation of corinth onely , but in all the churches where he taught , and cor. . it is a shame for a woman to speake in the church : the word church cannot be in that place restricted to the one single congregation , supposed to meet all in one house at one time in corinth , because it is a shame for a woman to preach in all the churches of the world , as is clear , tim. , , . and exod. . . all the church , ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) of israel shall doe it , that is , they shall eate the lambe in their houses , and shall not break a bone thereof , so the . interpreters render it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the chaldee paraphrast , omnis caetus israel faciet illud . it were easie to b●ing infinite instances out of the word of god to make good that a collective , noun such as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a church , is taken distributively . so james . . if toere came unto your assembly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a man with a gold ring , &c. except the word ( assemblie ) or , church , be taken distributively and not collectively , it shall follow that all the dispersed iewes , to whom iames doth write , have one single place of church-assembly , as heb. . . not forsaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the assembly of your selves together , a● the manner of some is ; but can any inferre from this place , more then from acts . . acts. . . that all the whole hebrewes , to whom that apostle doth write had one ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) single church-meeting , and one congregation , in the which they did all meet for worship ? i thinke not : or will it follow that there were none amongst all these iewes who did separate from any church-assemblie , except onely from the church-assembly of a single congregation , because the apostle mentioneth onely one single church-meeting ? i think not , and therefore the apostles mentioning of one assembling of the church , acts . . and of one multitude , in the singular number , acts . . can never prove that there was but one single congregation at antioch . therefore there be great ●dds betwixt meeting in a church , and meeting in the church . also tit. . . for this cause was titus left at creet , that he might appaynt elders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in every city , if 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be not all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . . acts . . . that is , if ordaining of elders of every city , bee not as good , as ordaining of elders in every church , then must there be but in all , and every city , where ever the apostles or evangelists planted churches , but one single congregation , and not any more then could meet in a single congregation ; which is a conjecture , and much contrary to these times when the gospell admirably grew in the world. and it must follow that every city had but such a competent number as met in one place ; and if this hold , as an uncertaine thing , in great cities , then must we say an eldership in a city , and an eldership of many congregations were the first planted apostolick churches , and so rules to us also . and looke what frame of churches the apostles did institute in cities , that same they behoved to institute in villages also , for places cannot change the frame of any institution of christ. . the communion of saints and church-edification is as requisite for villages , as for cities . arguments removed , which mr. richard mather , and mr. william thomson pastors in new england , in their answer to mr. charles herle , do bring , so far as they make against the authors former treatises , and a scanning of some synodicall propositions of the churches of n. england . mr. mather , mr. thomson , c. . . governing power is only in the elders , cor. . . rom. . . heb. . . the people hath no power but rather a liberty or priviledge , which when it is exercised about ordination , deposition , excommunication , is of the whole communiter , or in generall , but not of all and every member in particular ; women for their sex , children for want of discr●tion are d●barred . answ. if there be no governing power in women , nor any act at all in excommunication . you loose many arguments that you bring , cor. . to prove that all have hand in excommunication . . because paul writeth to all . . all were to mourne . . all ware to forbeare the company of the excommunicated men . then belike paul writeth not to all saints at corinth , not to women , and women were not to mourne for the scandall ; nor to forbeare his company . . the priviledge being a part of liberty purchased by christs body , it must be due to women , for the liberty wherewith christ hath made women free cannot be taken away by any law of god from their sex , except in christ iesus there be difference betwixt iew and gentile , male and female ; nor is it removed because i● i● a power or authority , for the authors say it is no power , but a priviledge . . what priviledge the people have in ordination to confer a ministery which they neither have formally , nor vertually , i know not . but i doe willingly say something here of the peoples power ; the first synodicall proposition of new england , is . . propos. the fraternity is the first subject of all ministeriall power , radicalitèr , idest 〈◊〉 per modum collationis , some say suppletivè , non habitualitèr , non actualit ●r , non formalitèr . that is , ( if i conceive it right ) the people voyd of all officers have a vertuall power to conferre a ministery on their officers though they have not this power in themselves . i could in some sense yield that believers not angells , are capable of the ministeriall power to exercise it formally , but that believers doe , or can , by any way of causative influence , make church-officers , i see not : they may design a man qualified to bean officer to the office , and that is all . but say they , people wanting , or being naked and without all officers hath not formally or habitually any power in them , this latter part igrant , and the . proposition i grant , to wit. that the presbytery is the first subject of all presbyteriall power habitually , and formally . but i doe not see how it standeth with the third proposition ; which is . the fraternity or the people without the officers , and without women or children , have an authoritative concurrence with the presbytery , in judiciall acts . because if the brethren have an halfe ministeriall power with the officers in acts of jurisdiction and excommunication , deposition , and censures , i see not how there is not a ministeriall power formally and habitually , at least in part , in the brethren ; and so contrary to the third proposition , the prasbytery is not the first subject of all prebyteriall power , for the brethren are sharers with the elders in this power . . we desire to see it made good by gods word , that the brethren have a joynt power of jurisdiction with the elders , for the table giveth them a brotherly publick power not by way of charity , but a politick church power , in many eminent acts , especially in those eight ; and that constantly , . in the admission . . in sending messengers to the churches . . in the excommunication of members . . . in interpretation of scripture . . in the calling . . in a judiciall determination of controversies of religion in a synod . . and deposition of ministers . . in a power of disposing of things indifferent . i cannot see any judiciall power , or any farther then a charitative yielding by way of a loving and brotherly consent , that the scripture giveth to brethren . . how this can be denied to be a power of jurisdiction and governing ; and an actuall ministeriall using of the keyes of the kingdome by those who ex officio , by place , and calling are no officers , i believe is not easily understood . . the letter that i saw sayth , that that learned and godly divine mr. cotton and some others thinke , that the church as it is an organicall body made up of elders , and people is the first subject of all ecclesiasticall power , and they divide it into a power of authority , and a power of liberty , whereof the power of authority belongeth to the elders or eldership , and the power of liberty to the fraternity , or brethren that are not officers ; and therefore these reverend brethren deny any authoritative concurrence to the brethren , and they thinke that the church as it is an homogeneall body , that is , a company destitute of officers , cannot formally ordaine , excommunicate , or censure the elders , though in case of obstinacy they may doe that which is equivalent , and so separate from them . the . proposition is ; the fraternity or brethren in an organicall body , or in a ●●med and established church consisting of officers and people , act and use their authority , subordinate per modum obedi nt●ae , subordinately , and by way of due obedience to the elders , c●r . . . but i desire a word of christs testament for this , where wee a●de that collaterall judges acting as judges doe act by way of obedience and subjection one to another : for if the brethren , cor. . convened in court with the elders to deliver the incestuous man to satan , do act in that court as giving obedience to the elders , i see not how they concurre authoritatively is sharers with them of that same ministeriall power : if it be said , brethren though they act as judges in excommunicating , yet they remaine brethren and a part of the flock , and so in all their morall acts of authoritative concurring with the elders , they are under the pastorall care of these who watch for soules , and so they judge and act even in the court as under subjection to their watchmen , who must give an accompt for their soules ; i answer , so the elders in their acts of the most supreame ministeriall authority and acting in a church . court , leave not off to be brethren and a part of the flock of christ , and so in subjection one to another ; for six elders watch for the soule of one , and one also for the soules of six , and so if this were a good reason the elders should act with subordination of obedience to elders . as the people act with subordination to the elders . . the place cited for this cor. . . where it is said , that the preachers have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience , must inferre that they are to revenge , by the word which is mighty through god to cast downe strong holds , as is said there , v. . . even disobedience of elders ruling unjustly and abusing the keyes , no lesse then disobedience of the people . and i see not how brethen acting in a church-court joyntly with elders , how in that they put on the relation of the flock , and the part governed in the very act of exercising acts of governing , for otherwayes one pastor in the act of preaching in the name of jesus christ , and so in authority above these to whom he preacheth , doth preach subordinatè , and as in subjection to the whole organicall and formed church , who hath power to censure him , if he preach erroneous doctrine . . i see not how the third proposition doth stand , to wit , that the brethren , share with the elders in authoritative acts of the keyes , and yet they ●ct ( according to the. . proposition ) as under the eldership by way of subjection and obedience to them . except this be that which our brethren meane , that the people of a single congregation exercise acts of jurisdiction by way of dependence , so as they may be censured by the elders if they erre , but the elders if they erre , are every way popes , and so independent ; that there is no church-power on earth above them , that in a church-way may censure them , or call them to an accompt . . the table of new england divideth the actuall exercise of the power in a charitative power by way of love and charity , and a politick or church-exercise , the politick exercise againe is either brotherly , fraternall , or presbyteriall , and the presbyteriall exercise is either . teaching .   or ,   . governing . and teaching is either by way of office , or administrating the sacraments . the presbyteriall exercise of the keyes is independentelders , in the power of governing , sed respect● apotelesmatis s●u complementi censurae , in respect of the effect , or a compleat act of governing , the elders rule and act with dependence upon the people , in these foure cases . in excommunication .   . in judging .   . in sentencing the aocused .   . in election or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in calling of a minister . so that the elders there alone without the people , can exercise none of these acts completely , without the people so heare the elders depend upon the people in their actuall governing , and the fraternity or brethren depend on the elders by way of subjection , or obedience to them . yet give me leave , the letter informeth me that it is said by many learned and godly men in new england , that if their policy should make the government of the church popular , they should give up the cause . but i conceive the government to be popular , though the people only be not governours , for mor●llius never taught any such thing ; now this government maketh elders and people to governe the church joyntly with mutuall dependence one upon another , which certainly maketh the brethren in the lord , as well as the elders ; for if the elders be not these onely which watch for the peoples soules as these which must give an accompt heb. . , . and they be not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 over the people in the lord , as is said thess. . . . then the brethren must be taken in with them a● joynt governours , as is said propos. . which certainly must confound the scripturall order established by god betwixt the pastors and the flock , the watchmen , and the city , the shep●eards and the flock , these who are to obey , and these who are over them in the lord. the . and . proposition is , the brethren may not excommunicate an elder but mediante concilio , by the intervening sentence of the elders ; is , but the brethren may separate and withdraw from the presbyteris , after they refuse sound advise . answ. . this is much contrary to that which they ordinarily teach , to wit , that people destitute of officers may ordaine and excommunicate their officers . . by this learning the soules of elders are in an hard case , for when they do all scandalously 〈◊〉 , there is no ecclesiasticall meane of edifying them , for there is no church on earth to excomunicate elders when they ●●re . separation from them is an unwarrantable way , except they be excommunicated . . in the case of the elderships incorrigible scandalls , the power of excommunication retireth into the brethren . yet it was never formally in the brethren , nor can they exercise this power , but mediante presbyteri● , that is , they cannot excommunicate the eldership , but by the judiciall sentence of the eldership , and so the power is but a shadow . mr. mather , mr. thomson , cap. . pag. , . though some have appealed , as luther and cranmer from the pope to a generall councell . yet not from a congreation to a generall councell . answ. in matters doctrinall , some as luther and others have justly appealed from a congregation , to a generall councell , though luther and cranmer did it not ; though verily i professe i cannot see what power of jurisdiction to censure scandalls can be in a generall councell , there may be some meerly doctrinall power , if such a councell could be had , and that is all . m. mather , mr. thomson , c. . pag : . if churches be dependent on synods , because the light of nature teacheth a communion and assistance in government , by the same reason churches must end in a monarchy on earth . answ. i see this sayd , without any probation . churches depend on many above them for unity ; but what consequence is this ; ergo , they depend upon one visible monarch . it is an unjust consequence . mr. mather , mr. thomson , c. , pag. . the graecians and hebrewes made not two churches , but one congregation , they called the multitude of disciples together , v. . answ. that the chiefe of both grecians and hebrewes were convened in one to give their consent to the admission of their officers the deacons , i conceive ; but that all the thousands of the church of jerusalem were here , as in one ordinary congregation i judge unpossible . mr. mather , c. . pag. . . if your argument be good , if thy brother offend and refuse to submit tell the church , because christs remedy must be as large as the disease : then if a nationall church offend , you are to complaine to a higher church above a nationall church ; and because offences may arise betwixt christians and indians , you may complain of an indian to the church . ans. because ordinary communion faileth , when you got higher then a nationall church , and christs way suppoleth an ordinary communion , as is cleare . if thy brother offend , &c. therefore i deny that this remedy is needfull in any church above a nationall church . . christs remedy is a church . remedy for offences amongst brethren , and members of the visible church . and indians are no members of the church , and so being without , they cannot bee judged , co. . . we say that if the magistrate be an enemy to religion , may not the church without him convene and renew a covenant with god ? mr. mather , and mr. thomson answer , c. . pag. . if the supreame magistrate be an enemy to religion , it is not like , but most or many of the people will be of the same mind . regis ad exemplum — as it is in france , and spaine , and was in the dayes of queene mary , and then the believers in the land will not be able to beare the name of the land or nation , but of a small part thereof ; nor can it be well conceived how they should assemble in a nationall synod , for that , or any other purpose , when the magistrate is a professed enemie , nor doth god require it at their hands . answ. this is a weake answer : the christians under ner● were not like their prince , and it s not like but sincere christians will bee sincere christians and professe truth . even when the magistrate is an enemy . and . if your meaning be , it cannot be conceived how they should assemble in a nationall assembly when the magistrate is an enemy ; because it is not safe for feare of persecution . then you say nothing to the argument , because the argument is drawen from a duty , a nation professing the gospell after many backslidings are obliged to convene in a nationall synod , and are to renew their covenant with the lord , and your answer is from an ill of affliction : and if you meane that because the princes power is against their synodicall convening , this is nothing against the power of the synods that christ hath given to his church ; but if your meaning be that it is not lawfull to them to convene in a nationall synod to renew a covenant with god against the supreame magistrates will , i hope you minde no such thing● ; for so doe malignants a now alledge that wee never read of any reformation of religion in scripture warranted , but where the prince did contribute his authority , because he onely is to reforme , and he onely rebuked for the standing of the high places , but hee may soone be answered . . both israel and iudah were so bent to backsliding , that wee read not that ever the people made any reall reformation of religion , josiah , hezekiah and asa did it for them . but what an argument is this : iudah did never , for the most of the land , seeke the lord god of their fathers with all their heart ; ergo , the seeking of the lord god with all the heart is an unwritten tradition ? . princes are obliged to remove high places ; but are they obliged with their owne hands to breake all the images ? no , i thinke if they remove the high places by the hands of their subjects , or command their subjects to remove them , they doe full well . but i see not this consequence . ergo , princes onely are obliged to remove the high places , it followeth not . . if it be the princes part to command his subjects this duty of reformation and removall of the high places , then they may performe their duty without the prince . . there is a twofold reformation , one an heart-reformation . sure this is not the princes onely . all the land may repent without the king. there is another , an outward reformation . and that is twofold , either negative , or positive● negative is to refraine from ill , and the unlawfull and superstitious manner of worshipping god , as in new offices not warranted by his word , antichristian ceremonies , and a masse-booke , &c. certainly all the land are to abstaine from sinne , though the king command not : now all the reformation for the most part in both kingdomes is in obstinence from superstitious superadditions that defiled the worship of god , and to this there is no necessity of the magistrates authority , more then wee need● the kings warrant , to put an obligation upon gods negative commandements . all that is positive is the swearing of a lawfull covenant to observe and stand by the faith and true religion of the land , but i see no more a necessity that a king warrant the lawfull vow of twenty thousand , then the lawfull vow of one man , seeing it is a lawfull profession of christ before men commanded in the third commandement . and to the observance of that law of god , which god and conscience hic & nunc doe oblige us , there is no addition of a kingly authority by necessity of a divine law required to make it valid , no more then if all the kingdome at such a solemne day of humiliation , should all in every severall church sweare to reformation of life . . the apostles and christ positively did reforme religion , and the church without and contrary to the mind of civill authority , nor is it enough to say the apostles were apostles , but wee are not apostles , for upon this morall ground , acts . . wee ought rather to obey god than man , ) they reformed contrary to the magistrates mind . and wee doe but contend for that very same faith , jud. . which was once delivered to the saints . so to reforme is to seeke the old way , and to walks in it , jeremy . . to turne to the lord with all the heart , jeremy . and for this cause , jeremy . . iudah is sayd not to veturue to the lord with her whole heart , but fainedly , because when a zealous king reformed , them they returned not with all their heart . whence reformation of religion must bee the peoples duty , no lesse then the kings ; and i believe such a divine precept carrying the new sense of our malignant divines should bee black policy , not sound divinity , if any ierimiah or prophet should say ; amend your wayes and turne to the lord with all your heart , and put away your idolls and your strange gods , providing the king will goe before you , and command you so to doe . hence i say that 's a poore court-argument of parasites for kings . wee never read of any reformation of religion in israel and judah but when holy and zealous kings commanded the reformation ; ergo , the reformation begun in scotland without the consent of the supreame magistrate , and a reformation now prosecuted in england against the kings will is unlawfull . to which . i desire the malignant divines to receive these answers for justifying the zeale of both kingdomes in their reformation . . it is a question , if they question not the reformation according to the substance of the action , that is , if they are not offended that the queenes masse , the popery of prelates and divines under their wings , and their arminianisme , and socinianisme should be abolished , or if they condemne not the doctrine , but question onely the manner of abolishing such heterodox stuffe . if the former be said , i● is knowen , never malignant , prelate or other had grace , by word , or writing , to entreate his m●jesty for a reformation , and this is enough for the former . if they meane the latter , they bee very like the pharisees , who when they durst not question the doctrine and miracles of christ , they onely questioned the manner of doing . and sayd by what authority doest thou these ? but because they are joyned to the papists side , and fight under their banner ; it is most evident it galleth their stomacks , that popery , atminianisine , and socinianisme are cryed downe ; else the manner of doing a good worke , and such a necessary worke as reformation , would not have offended them so highly , as to move them to kill the people of god ; an error in the circumstances of a good worke is very veniall to papists and arminians . . let them give to us , since they argue from a practice , a warrant of any such practice , where a whole land went on in a negative reformation without the prince ergo , negative precepts , by this logick , shall lay no divine obligation on us , except it bee the kings will to forbid that which god forbiddeth , then suppose episcopacy and the ceremonies were the idoll of the masse established by a standing law , it should bee unlawfull for the kingdomes to forbeare and abstaine from idolatry , except the kings law forbid idolatry . what were this else but to say , we are obliged to obey christs will , but not except with a reservation of the kings will ? . this is an argument negative , from one particular in scripture , and therefore not concludent . for it is thus , reformation without the king wanteth a practise in the sc●ipture ; ergo , it is unlawfull , it followeth not , except it want precept , promise and practise , for the argument negative from scripture is onely undeniable in this sense ; and in this sense onely pressed by our divines against papists . and therefore it is like this argument , purgatory is not commanded in this chapter , idolatry is not forbi●den in this commandement , ergo , neither purgatorie , nor idolatry is forbidden in gods word . so let the adversaries give me a practise in the word of god , where a brother kept this order of christs three steps , mat. . first , to reprove an offender alone . secondly , before two or three witnesses . thirdly , in case of obstinacy , to tell the church ; and to these adde , that the man was by the church to be reputed as an heathen and a publican . and i hope , because such a practise we doe not read , yet it followeth not that it is unlawfull . so where read you a man forgiving his brother seventy seven times : ergo , it is unlawfull to forgive him seventy and seven times ? where read you that christ and his apostles , and the christian church in the new testament raised warre and armies either to defend or offend , but i hope anabaptists have not hence ground to inferre , then must all warres be unlawfull to christians , for wee can produce warrantable precepts , where we want practise . fourthly , where it is said , kings onely are rebuked for not removing high places , and kings onely are commended , because they are removed , therefore none should reforme but kings . this followeth no wayes , but onely kings by royall authority should reforme ; but it followeth not ; ergo , the people without the king are not obliged to reforme themselves in their manner , for i am sure , that the people should all universally resolve and agree , never to sacrifice in the high places and accordingly to practise : and to sacrifice onely in the place which the lord had chosen to place his name there , at gods expresse law commanded , deuteronomy . . deuteronomy . . . deuteronomy . . . . . deut. . . had beene a removall of the high places and a warrantable reformation , though the king should have , by a standing law , commanded that they should sacrifice in the high places , for the people are rebuked , because kings . . they burnt incense in all the high places , chronicles . . hosea . . and , a chronicles . . the reason why the high places were not taken away , is : for as yet the people had not prepared their hearts unto the god of their fathers . if then not sacrificing in the high places was the peoples duty , they were to remove the high places , in their place ; and so farre to reforme without the king , yea suppose the king command the contrary , the people ought to obey god , and the parliament may by gods law abolish episcopacy , popish ceremonics , and the popish service though the king consent not , upon this ground that those he the high places of england , for the which the wrath of the lord is kindled against the land. fifthly , the adversaries may read , chronicles . . that the strangers out of ephraim , and manasseh and simeon gathered themselves together to asa without the consent of their king , and did enter in a covenant to seek the lord god of their fathers . sixtly , the pastors of the land are obliged to preach all necessary truth , without the king , and accordingly are to practise what they preach ; now reformation is a most necessary truth , they are then to reforme themselves and religion without the king : for the word of god , not the kings will is the pastors rule in preaching , and hee is to separate the pretious from the vile , that hee may be as gods mouth , jeremy . . and ezekiel . . thou shalt speake my words unto them , that was the doctrine of reformation , not the kings words , vers . . but , thou sonne of man , heare what i say to thee ; yea pastors are to preach against kings and their sinnes , kings . . . . jer. . . ier. . , , . seventhly , if no reformation can be without the king , . people are not to turne to the lord , and repent th●m of the evill of their doings , and to prevent the babylonish captivity , or a worse judgement , except the king will , and all religion and. . church-worship must bee resolved ultimately on the kings will and pleasure : for if it be not the kings pleasure to reforme , the people must continue still where they were , and scotland who contrary to the will and heart of authority at our first reformation put away the masse and popery , and established religion in sincerity , is greatly to bee condemned . luther had authority against him , and the powers of the world , it was one point of reformation that john baptist tooke up , against the law of the land to preach against herods sinne ; for if popery be in a land , to leave popery is a great degree of reformation , and if the people , without the prince , may goe on in the greatest step of reformation , why not also in the lesser ? except you say the people without the king , are not to abstaine from the grossest idolatry under the sunne , which is to worship and adore the worke of the bakers hands . mr. mather , mr. thomson . the name church , cor. . , . . , . . is plainly given to that company that did assemble and come together for performance of spirituall duties , and for the exercise of spirituall gifts , as acts . . acts . . . . . . cor. . . . . . ioh. . which places doe abundantly shew that a company gathered together to one place is called by the name church , as cenc●rea , rom. . . which could not containe many congregations , being but the prot of corinth . answ. we seeke no more , if it be called a church which conveneth for performance of spirituall duties : as some of your places doe well prove ; ergo , no assembly should have the name of church , but such as assemble for word and sacraments ; this now you cannot affirme , and it followeth not , the church spoken of matthew . is not assembled to word and sacraments , but to bind and loose on earth . the meeting , cor. . . is not for word and sacraments , but to deliver to satan , for ought wee can read , the word church , acts . . is not an assembly for word and sacraments ; but to heare how god had opened the doors of faith to the gentiles , and whether this was preaching of the word and receiving the sacraments , or rather a matter that concerned the apostles and elders that they might not thinke hard to preach the gospell to the gentiles , i leave to the judicious reader ; and if to be received of the church , acts . . be a matter of word and sacraments , let all judge . and if to lend a decree of a synod , acts . . be the act of a church assembled for word and sacraments , let the world judge : and therefore all these places doe strongly confirme a presbytery assembled for acts of iurisdiction , and matters that belong to many churches , as is most cleare , acts . . acts . . acts . . and seeing wee finde the name ( church ) given to a meeting assembled onely for discipline or things that concerne many churches , for any thing wee can read or observe from the word : as acts . . acts . . . matthew . . and also the word church given to a meeting assembled for the word , cor. . cor. . . , , . rom. . . and not for acts of jurisdiction for ought that wee can collect from the word . i beseech you , brethren , why doe we contend ? if the word church , be a meeting of persons assembled to one place , for spirituall duties , sometimes for word and sacraments onely , sometimes for acts of jurisdiction onely , then is the word church , by our brethrens argument taken both for the congregation , and for the elders of one , or of diverse churches ; and so wee have our intent . and we desire our brethren to prove ( which they must prove , if they oppose our principles ) that the word ( church ) is never taken for the eldership onely , in all the word of god , but these places prove the contrary , as i have shewen . . whereas our brethren say ; a company gathered into one place ( which is nothing else but a congregation ) are called by the name of a church . i answer . such a company is onely called by the name of a church , as i have proved ; for a company meeting for discipline onely , matthew . cor. . . is a church also . . it is false that a company gathered in one place are nothing else but a congregation . as you take the word ( congregation ) for to you ( congregation ) is an assembly of men and women meeting for word and sacrament with the elders of the church , i appeale to the judgement of our reverend brethren ; if the church , mat. . . assembled to bind and loose , if the church , cor. . . ( though the text speake nothing of the word ( church ) assembled to deliver to satan . if the church assembled , acts . . acts . . to heare things which concerned the apostles , and many churches , rather then one ; if the multitude convened , acts . . to heare the decree of the synod read , and if the church of apostles and elders from antiosh and ierusalem . acts . . be a congregation or a congregationall church assembled for word and sacraments , as the word church is taken , acts . . cor. , , . mr. mather , and mr. thomson , num. . . the children of israel which were not the church of officers layd on hands on the levites , therefore when a church hath no elders the people may conferre ordination , and it is not to be tyed to the presbytery onely . hence other of our brethren say , ordination is but accidentall to a ministers calling , and may be wanting , if the people shall chuse , in the defect of elders . answ. here two poynts are to be discussed shortly . . if ordination belong to the people . . if ordination to a certaine stick be necessary , for certainly the people doe not call but to a certaine flock . to the first i say ; there is not a place in all the word of god where the people conferre ordination to the pastors of the new testament . therefore our brethren flee to the old testament to prove it from the levites who received imposition of hands from the children of israel ; but our brethren hold , that the calling of the levites and of the pastors of the new testament are different , as the officers and churches of the jewish and christian church are different . . our brethren grant pag. . that it wanteth all example in the new testament that the people lay on hands . . these who layd on hands on the levite , num. . were elders and ( our brethren say , ) it is like they were , but. . they did it not as elders . . but as representing the people , not as elders civill , for that belonged to aaron and his sonnes , levit. . else it will follow that where the church hath no magistrate to lay on hands , the church may doe it . nor did they lay on hands as ecclesiasticall elders , because what these which layd on hands did , they did as from the congregation for . these levites were taken in stead of the first borne of israel and not in stead of the first borne of the elders only , num. , . . they were presented to the lord , as an offering of the children of israel , not of the elders only . . when the multitude brought an oblation , the elders put their hands on the head of the sacrifice levit. . . in stead of all the multitude . answ. these who layd on hands , did it as a worke peculiar to the elders , because the elders were a part of the first borne , who by office were elders , and in whose stead the levites were assumed , num. . . . else the church of israel being a constituted church before this time , wanted officers , which is against all truth . . we grant the magistrates layd not on hands , but they who layd on hands did it as ecclesiasticall elders . and the reasons against this conclude not . . the first reason concludeth not because these who layd on hands were the first borne , who by office were church men . . the other two reasons prove nothing , for because these who layd on hands , did lay on hands as representing the whole congregation , alas it doth no wayes conclude that they layd not on hands as it is a works peculiar to them as elders , for the priest offered sacrifice first for his owne sinnes , and then for the peoples , heb. . . and so did represent the people . but , i hope , it followeth not that therefore the priest did not sacrifice as a priest , and by vertue of a peculiar office , but onely as a principall member of the congregation . . what if there be no elders in a single congregation , as our brethren suppose there were no elders in office in israel to lay hands on the levites ? it will not follow therefore , the people are to lay on hands , except there were no elders in all the land or nationall church to lay on hands . and though i thinke imposition of hands not so essentiall perhaps as a minister can be no minister without it , yet i thinke not so of ordination ( for these to mee are as different as the authoritative calling of a minster , and a rite annexed to that calling ) because none can be a minister in a constituted church , but one which is called of god as was aaron . but you will say , in a church , in an island one may bee a pastor without any ordination , if the people elect him , and there be no elders to ordaine . i answer , it is true : but so many pastors send a pastor to bee a pastor to a congregation , though that congregation never chuse him , as possibly they bee for the most part popish , or unwilling , yet both cases are extraordinary and the church not constituted and established . m. mather , if the people may elect officers , then in some cases they may ordaine them ! also , because ordination is lesse then election , and dependeth , upon it as a necessary antecedent , and it is nothing but a● consummation of election , or the admission of a person into the possession of that office , whereto hee had right before by election . if then a single congregation may elect , which is the greater , they may ordaine which is the lesser . answ. ordination is the more , and election the lesse ; for ordination is an act authoritative of the presbytery , tim. . . and , for ought i see , the authors might argue thus , the people may ordaine ; ergo , they may preach and baptize , for all the three are presbyteriall acts given to men in office . . some doubt if i said rightly in my former treatise , that ordination is prior to election , because ordination is that whereby a minister is made a minister , and election that whereby he who is a minister first by order of nature , is made the minister of such a fl●ck . i will not contend with any of either sides for order . but when i said so , i tooke the word ( election ) for the peoples actuall receiving and their compleat taking him for their minister , after hee is now ordained a minister this is his installing in his office. and my reason is ; because the peoples naming of such a man to bee their pastor doth stand with his never being their pastor ; hee being unwilling to be their pastor , and the presbytery thinking it unfit hee be the pastor of such a people . . the people elect him as a pastor to be their pastor , they doe not elect him as a gifted man. and whereas some say . acts . . , . election of seven men to be deacons goeth before ordination and imposition of hands , v. . answ. election of the people goeth before ordination in the relation of luke , true ; ergo , election is prior by order of nature , it followeth not . but acts . ordination of matthias ( god casting the lot upon him , vers . . ) is prior to the peoples electing of him , for the peoples appoynting of two , vers . . cannot be their election ; for they were to elect one , but i submit to the learneder my thoughts in this . as also my tearming paphnutius neither bishop nor elder at the councell of nice , which i did not as denying him to bee a bishop , but because hee was called to that councell of nice where as before hee had beene deprived , but was restored by constantine , though in the estimation of these who contended for the single life of priests , whose corruptions paphnutius opposed , hee was in an ecclesiasticall sense neither bishop nor presbyter but deprived from both . but let the righteous rebuke mee , and it shall be as oyle to my head. . it cannot bee that election of the people is the whole calling of a man to the ministerie , and ordination onely a supplement and an consummatory rite , or a benedictory signe which may bee spared . . because by the imposition of the bands of the presbytery , timothy was made a minister , timothy . . paul and silas separatted to preach to the gentiles , acts . , , , . the deacons ordained , acts . . and this is enjoyned with the right manner of acting it to timothy , timothy . . timothy . . as a ministeriall act . . a ministeriall caling standeth in an authoritative sending , romans . . and i see not well how the people themselves doe send a minister to themselves . ( ) the people have not either formally , or by any grant of christ , vertually , the keyes committed to them , how then can they give the keyes to pastors ? . people may as the sheepe of christ , ioh. . decern his voyce , and so have a power of election of their owne pastors , nor doth this make good which our brethren say . mr. mather sayth , that because they are all taught of god , esa. . . and they knew christs ' doctrine , joh : . therefore they may judge of a ministers fitnesse , for it is plaine that there it a twofold knowledge ; one of christians , esal . . . not denied to women and believing children , who cannot lay on hands nor ordaine ministers , as the presbytery doth , timothy . . acts . . acts . . . timothy . . timothy . . but for trying of ministers if they bee the sonnes of the prophets and must be apt to teach , timothy . , . able to convince subtile hereticks and gain-sayers and to put them to silence , titus . . . there must be in a constituted church a colledge of pastors and prophets to try the prophets , with a presbyteriall cognizance . but here some object . if election bee absolutely in the h●●ds of the people , then is the peoples will , because will , the absolute determiner who shall be the pastor to such a flock ; but people certainly may erre , therefore the presbytery must bee the last determiner in election ; and people have onely a rationall consent , and if their consent be irrationall , the presbyter must chuse for them . i answer shortly in these propositions . pro. neither is the people infallible in chusing , nor the presbytery infallible in regulating the peoples choice , yet is power of regulating the choice , the presbyteries due , nor power of election to be denied to gods people . . pro. you must suppose the church a settled and an established church of sound professors , for if the congregation or presbytery , either of them be , for the most part , popish , arminian or unsound in the faith , in so far hath christ given neither power to the one , or other . . prop. when it is acknowledged by both people and presbytery , that of two or three men , any one is qualified for the place , then the man is absolutely to bee referred to the peoples choice , and though the people give no reason why they chuse this man , rather then any of the other two , yet i● the peoples choice reasonable , for no doubt acts. . there were more men then these seven of good report and full of the holy ghost , and fit to be deacons , therefore the multitudes choice of these seven , and their nomination of them to be apostles rather then the nomination of any other men is rationall and approved by the twelve apostles , though they give no reason ; yea , though nicolas be the s●ctmaster of the nicolaitans ( as the learned thinke ) yet the election is ecclesiastically lawfull and needeth not that a reason be given to the apostles . . prop. we never read that in the apostles-church a man was obt●uded upon the people against their will. and therefore election by the people in the apostolique church , as acts . . acts . , , . revel . . . acts . . must be our rule , any election without the peoples consent must be no election , for if it please not the whole multitude , as acts . . it is not a choice . . prop. we must distinguish election and regulation of the election . . there is a regulation of the election , positive ; and a regulation negative . hence the presbyteries power consisteth only in a negative regulation of the peoples choice , not in a positive ; for example , election is an elicit act of the people , and their birthright and priviledge that christ hath given to them , and it cannot be taken from them ; if there be any election , it must be made by the people , the presbytery even in case of the peoples aberration cannot usurpe the act of election ; because the apostles , who yet had the gift of discerning spirits , in a greater measure then the multitude , remit the choice of the seven deacons to the multitude ; ergo , the presbytery should doe the same ; yet may the presbytery negatively reggulate the election , and if the people out of the humour of itching eares chuse an unfit man , in that case the presbytery may declare the election irregular and null ; as suppose the multitude , acts had chosen such a man , or all the seven men , like simon magus , the twelve apostles by their ministeriall power might have impeded that election , or rather nomination as irregular , and put them to chuse other seven men ; but the apostles could not have chosen for them other seven , for then election should have bin taken out of the peoples hands ; hence that distinction of elicit and imperate acts , even as the understanding commandeth and directeth the will to such and such elicit . actions , and regulateth the will therein , and yet the understanding can neither nill , nor will , and the king may punish pastors who preach hereticall doct in & vitiate the sacrament ; but the king can neither preach the word himself , nor administate the sacraments ; so the presbytery may regulate negatively and hinderth election of an unfit man , but the presbytery cannot do , as the p●elate did who would name a man to the people , and desire their consent ( but consent is not all , the presbytery and neighbour congregations have consent , but no elective liberty given them by christ ) but if the people refused their consent , he prelate without more a do , chose and ordained the man , and so he was obtruded on the people without any election at all . ordination of an ordinary pastor is always to a certain flock , act. . . pet. . . rev. . . yet here must we distinguish'd dedication to christs service by the office . . the exercise of the office , in the former respect the pastor is a pastor every where , and may be sent as a pastor to plant churches , but ratione finis . he is primariò principally to feed this flock , and secundario and ratione med●i , secondarily , while he feedeth this flock , he feedeth the church universall . mr. mather , if people may not m●dle with ordination , because it is proper to timothy and titus , this may prove that they were bishops who did ordaine elders there alone , which ministers may not do there ; for these epistles are not written to them , as bishops alone , nor as elders alone , but as to a mixt state , including the people . answ. some parcells of these epistles are written to timothy and titus as evangelists , such as none may now do but they only , ●● tim. . . tit. . . tim. . . and some other things which they gave in charge to elders . . some things are written to them as christians , as tim. . . tit. . . & finaliter or objectively all is written for the churches good ; but ( ) the builk of the epistle is written to them as elders , and is a rule of perpetuall government , and especially , tim. . . . tim. . . for these and the like they were to doe with the presbytery , as is cleare , tim. . . object . the congregations of jerusalem were not fixed in their members and officers , onely the apostles preached to them ( if they were many congregations , which is possible ) in a circular way , now one apostle to this assembly , then another . but in regard not one paster could say ( this is my flock , not this ) nor any flock could say ( peter is our pastor , not andrew . ) therefore there was no church-state in any of these congregations as where there is not a head of a family and members , there is not a family , and so you prove not jerusalem a presbyteriall church over many fixed and formed churches , as they are in scotland , and if the apostles were pastors in a circular and fluid way to many congregations , every one was a pastor to many congregations and so elected by many congregations : which is absurd . ans. . fixed or not fixed cannot vary the essence of the government . . the priests , levites , and prophets teaching in the wildernes from place to place , and the people by war scattered to sundry tribes , doth not make these meetings not to be under the government of the great sanedrim , more then if the meeting made a fixed synagogue , divers members and dverso heads in one family occasioned by death , and pestilence , diverse souldiers and new commanders in a regiment , diverse inhabitants , yea and weekly altered rulers and watchmen in a city , doth not infer that that family , regiment , and city is not under one government of the city , one of the whole army , and one parliamentary law of the whole kingdome ; no more then if all were fixed in members and heads . . churches their persecution may have both members and teachers removed to a corner , and altered , yet they remain the same single congregation having the same government . . officiating in the same word , seales , censures , by peter , to day , and by andrew , to morrow , though members also be changed , is of the same species and nature , even to the worlds and , if we suppose the church of ierusalem to be one congregation induring a patterne these sixteen hundred yeares , members and officers must be often altered , yet it is one congregation in specie , and one single church in nature , though not in number , and the government not altered , through the fluidity and alteration of members and officers , as it is the same parliament now which was in the raigne of king iames , though head and members be altered ; fluidity and alteration of rulers and members must be , by reason of mortality accidentall to all incorporations , and yet their government for all that doth remaine the same in nature , if these same lawes , and government in nature by these lawes remaine . chap. . sect . . why we doe not admit the members of the churches of old england to the seales of the covenant . quest. i. vvhether the seales of the covenant can be denyed to professors of approved piety , because they are not members of a particular visible church , in the new testament . our brethren deny any church communion , and the seales of the covenant , baptisme , to the children of beleevers , the lords supper to beleevers themselves , who come to them from old england , because they be not members of the particular congregation to which they come , and because there is no visible , church in the new testament , but one particular parish , and all who are without a particular parish , are without the visible church , and so are not capable of either church censures , or the seales of the covenant , because 〈◊〉 have right to the seales of the covenant , but onely this visible church . we hold all who professe faith in christ , to be members of the visible church , though they bee not members of a visible congregation , and that the seales of the covenant should not be denyed to them . and for more full clearing of the question , let these considerations be observed . first , dist. all beleevers , as beleevers , in foro dei , before god have right to the seales of the covenant , these to whom the covenant and body of the charter belongeth , to these the seale belongeth , but in foro ecclesiastico , and in an orderly church-way , the seales are not to be conferred by the church upon persons because they beleeve , but because they professe their beleeving : therefore the apostles never baptized pagans , but upon profession of their faith . second dist. faith in christ truely giveth right to the seales of the covenant , and in gods intention and decree , called voluntas beneplaciti , they belong onely to the invisible church , but the orderly way ●f the churches giving the seales , is , because such a society is a professing or visible church , and orderly giving of the seales according to gods approving will , called , voluntas signi & revelata , belongeth to the visible church . third dist. the church may orderly and lawfully give the seales of the covenant to those to whom the covenant and promises of grace doth not belong in gods decree of election . fourth dist. the church may lawfully adde to the church visible , such as god addeth not to the church invisible , as they may adde simon magus , and the church may lawfully cast out of the visible church , such as christ hath not cast out of the invisible church , as the church may excommunicate regenerate persons for scandalous sinnes . fift dist. then the regenerate excommunicated have right to the seales of the covenant , as they have to the covenant , and yet the church doth lawfully debarre them , hic & nunc , in such a scandalous case , from the seales of the covenant . wee hold that those who are not members of a particular congregation , may lawfully be admitted to the seales of the covenant . first , because those to whom the promises are made , and professe the covenant , these should be baptized . but men of approved piety are such , though they be not members of a particular parish . the proposition is peters argument , act. . . secondly , those who are not members of a particular church may be visible professors , and so members of a visible church , ergo , the seales of the covenant belongeth to them . thirdly , the contrary opinion hath no warrant in gods word . fourthly , the apostles required no more of those whom they baptized , but profession of beleefe , as act. . . can any forbid water that these should not be baptized , who have received the holy ghost , as well as we ? act. . . if thou beleevest with all thy heart , thou mayest he baptized : no more is sought of the jaylor , act. . . . the authour saith : to admit to the seales of the covenant , is not an act of christian liberty , that every christian may dispense to whom he pleaseth , but an act of church power given to the ministers , to dispense to those over whom the holy ghost hath made them overseers ; but we have no ministeriall power over those of another congregation , and who are not members of a particular congregation . answ. first , to dispense the seales to whom we please , as if mens pleasure were a rule , were licentiousnesse , not christian liberty . there may be a communion of benefits , where there is no communion of punishment : beneficia sunt amplianda . secondly , it is false that pastors have no ministeriall power over those who are not of their congregation ; for if so , all communion of churches should fall , for letters of recommendation from other churches , whereof they are members , cannot make pastors of new england to have a ministeriall power over those of another congregation , as set over them , by the holy ghost , as they are set over their owne parish , to whom they be onely pastors , having ministeriall power , by a church covenant , and the peoples ordination , as our brethren teach . . manuser . those over whom ( saith our authour ) we have no power of censure , over those we have no power to dispense the communion . now if we should censure any such for drunkennesse , or other scandals , who are not of our congregation , it should be a non habente potestatem , an act done by those who have no power . answ. the major proposition by your owne doctrine , is clearely false , for you say your a selfe , strangers sojourning with us , members of other churches , knowne not to be scandalous , are admitted to the lords supper ; yet can you not excommunicate strangers , sojourning for a time , falling in scandals . for , first , to you they are without , how then can you judge them ? as you say . secondly , you have by the holy ghost no ministeriall power over them , as over your owne flocke , as you expone , act. . . thirdly , you looke aside at excommunication , for those of other churches consociated in a classe , we doe lawfully excommunicate and censure ; for excommunication is not a cutting off of a person from one single parishionall church onely , as you imagine , but a cutting off of a person from all the visible churches consociated : first , because he is delivered to satan , and his sin is bound in heaven , in relation to all the faster churches , and is so to be esteemed , and not in reference to the one single congregation , whereof he is a member . secondly , all are to be humbled and mourne for his fall , and to consent he be cut off , and not one single congregation onely . thirdly , all consociated churches shall be leavened , by keeping church-fellowship with such a lumpe . fourthly , all are to repute him as a heathen , and a publican . fifthly , all are to admonish him as a brother , thessalon . . . sixthly , all are to forgive him , and receive him in church-communion , if he shall repent , and occasionally to edifie him as a brother . the seales of righteousnesse of faith a saith the author ) are not seales to the faithfull as such , but as they are joyned together and consederate in some visible church , none but in a visible church may dispense the seales , in the o●d testament , none were partakers either of the passeover , or of circumcision , unlesse they were either israelites borne , or proselytes in the church of israel . we read not that job and his friends , though righteous through faith , were circumcised , nor would they have omitted to speake of circumcision , as of a pertinent evidence of the corruption of mans nature , of which they speake much ; the sacraments ( saith this same author b are not given to the invisible church , nor to the members thereof as such , but to the visible particular churches of christ , and to the members thereof ; therefore the seales are not to be givento those , who are of no particular visible church ? answ. . the seales of the covenant are principally given to the invisible church , as the covenant it selfe in gods decree of election is especially made with the elect , and such as shall never fall away , as is cleare , jer. . . jer. . . esay . heb. . . . and the invisible church as such , as a number of beleevers have onely right before god to both covenant and seales , yea and consequently are onely christs body and spouse , and redeemed saints , and so onely have all the power of the keyes , and the ministeriall power of dispensing the seales , and by our brethrens doctrine , the visible church not as visible , but as the true body , spouse , and bride of christ , & so as the invisible company of the redeemed ones have the seales , and covenant , and so all ministeriall power of christ is given unto them . . it is true the orderly and ecclesiasticke way of dispensing the seales , is that they bee dispensed onely to the visible church , but this visible church is not one parish , but all professing the faith of christ , though they be not joyned in one visible parish by one church oath , as the author meaneth : for the saints in scripture , as cornelius , the eunuch , the jaylor , did professe and visibly evidence their faith , and so that they were capable of the seales by desiring to be saved , and saying , what shall we doe to be saved , by trembling at the word of god , by asking the meaning of the word of god , which expressions are in many not in-churched to particular congregations , not did the apostles aske if they were members of one parish before they baptized them , but if they beleeved in christ. . whether job , his friends , melchisedeck , lot , and others the like were circumcised , we need not dispute , but that they were not circumcised , because they were not in a visible church estate with abraham , is a question and uncertaine , and therefore not sure to be a foundation of new opinions in church government ; but though it were granted , it followeth not , because none were circumeised but abrahams seed , and all , and onely abrahams seed were circumcised , therefore none are to be baptized but those who are members of one particular congregation : alas this is a weak● consequence , rather it followeth all borne of jewes were circumcised , ergo all borne of christian parents are to be baptized ; and we see not but sacrificing was restricted to the visible church , no lesse then circumcision , yet job sacrificed to god , job . and chap. . the author addeth the difference here is . the circumcised in israel might rightly keepe the passeover amongst themselves , because the whole nation of israel made but one church , and the officers and ministers of any one synagogue and the priests and levites were ministers in ●●mmune of the whole house of israel , in proportion whereunto they that are baptized in any particular church may in like manner require the lords supper , if there be no other impediment , in regard of their unfitnesse , to examine themselves , which is a thing requisite , to receive the lords supper , more then was required to receive the passeover . but now because the churches of the new testament are of another constitution , then the nationall church of all israel , baptisme in one church doth not give a man right to the lords supper in another , unlesse the officers of the one church were officers of all ( as in israel they ●er● ) or unlesse that one church and the officers thereof did recommend their right and power to another . answ. . it is true , in the one church of israel there was something typicall , that is not in our churches , as one temple , ●●e high priest , one place of sacrificing , one priesthood , one a●ke , &c. but this was peculiar to israel , as such a specifice church , and typi●ied also the externall visible unitie of the whole visible church of the new testament in professing one lord , one faith , one baptisme , one externall communion , and government externall , de jure : but this agreed not to the church of israel properly as a church ; for as a church of a nation they might convene and assemble themselves in one nationall assembly to reforme religion , to renew a nationall covenant , to turne away a nationall judgement , to make nationall acts , that they should seeke the lord god of israel , and put away strange wives , deut. . chron. . , . nehem. . and this is morall , yea naturall to a number of churches united in one nation , and no wayes typicall . . the proportion betwixt israel and a parishionall church is questioned , the author beggeth what is in question , for it is evident that in gods word there is a visible church of many congregations , associated in many visible acts of government . . if the church of israel and the churches of the new testament be of different constitutions , as anabaptists , arminians and socinians teacheth , we shall try . i affirme that the constitution in matter and forme was one with the christian visible church . . our brethren bring arguments from the constitution of the church of the jewes , that for matter they were a holy people , a royall generation , for forme they were united in one church-state covenant-wayes , as they prove from deut. . . separation from sinne and the wicked world , but not from the worship of god , was commanded to them , psal. . , . esay . . cor. . . levit. . , . communion with the wicked was forbidden to israel , chron. . . chron. . . but communion in worship both in the synagogue and temple was commanded to them . . that god required not morall preparation in them for eating the passeover , as he doth in us , before wee eate the lords supper , i conceive to bee an untruth . . because not to prophane the holy things of god , and not to take gods law in their mouth and to hate to be reformed , psal. . . not to sacrifice with bloody hands , esa. . , , &c. psal. . , , . esa . . was morall , and did bind and oblige the jewes as they doe us , and chron. . . the postes are sent to gather the people to the passeover , charging them to turne to the lord god of their fathers , not to be like their fathers ; and it is cleare by hezekiab● prayer , ver . , . good lord pardon him that prepareth his heart to seeke the lord god of his fathers , though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary , vers . . and the lord hearkened , and healed the people . ergo , there was required a preparation of the heart for the right eating of the passeover , besides the typicall and ceremoniall preparation . yea god counted the ceremoniall preparation voyd of the morall preparation , but abomination , as esa. . . esa. . , , , . and josiahs passeover is commended from this , kings . ( as junius well observeth ) that none did with such care and zeale , as josiah did prepare the pr●es●s , the people and himselfe for the passeover , in removing all id●latry and abominati●n , and in renewing their covenant and resoluti●n , vers . . to walke after the lord , and to keepe his commandements with all their heart , and with all their soule . . the uncleane and uncircumcised in heart were no more members of the true and invisible church of the jewes , and of christs mysticall body , his spouse , his royall generation , then sodom and gomorrah , esa. . then the ethiopians , amos , . . then ammon and moah , j●r . , . as in the new testament , and the true invisible church amongst them , as amongst us were kings and priests unto god , exod. . . . psal. . . as we are , pet. . , . rev. . . . amongst them no man could invade the priests office , or runne unsent , no more then under the new testament , heb. . . tim. . . though they were to rebuke one another , levit. . and they had sacrifices for sins of ignorance , levit. . . . the place seemeth not to want difficultie , how many sacrifices would men offer , how often , yea while they were going home from jerusalem ( which was a long journey to many ) they might fall in these sinnes of ignorance , and as a master paget noteth there was no dispensation for this law , yet when abraham travelled three dayes to mount moriah from beersheba in the south , and some of the tribes northward , would bee al 's farre distant , it would be seven dayes journey to many ; therefore the text is , if be sinne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in ignorance , or through ignorance , that is , meerely of ignorance , as when a man in drunkennesse killed a man , he shall offer a trespasse offering for it , the jewes call it in their language 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 timgnol , magnal , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 megnal signifieth pallium , if he sinned with a cloake casten over his eyes , and b weemes said the sinnes were done of ignorance , not ignorantly , or the word in the hebrew , is vel notificatum fuerit ei peccatum ejus , when the conscience is wakened and convinced , and he can finde no rest , let him offer sacrifices . and a third step was excommunication and casting out of the synagogue after the captivity , which are the very degrees of our church censure . they answer , israel had civill c government which we have not . i answer , deut. . . he that will not hearken to the priest ( that standeth before the lord to minister ) or unto the judge , even that man shall dye . he saith not , hee that hearkeneth not unto the people . . they say they could not in israel forgive one anothers sinnes , as we doe in the new testament . answ. it is a divine law in the old testament , they were to forgive even their enemies , prov. . . &c. a robinson saith , no church hath the absolute promise of the lords visible presente , which that church then had , till the comming of christ , gen. . . and . . exod. . , . it was simply necessary that the messiah should be borne in the true church . . in their deepest apost asy god shewed them some signes of his presence , by raising up some godly king , priest , or prophet . answ. that they had prerogatives above us is cleare , rom. . , , . rom. . . and that in other respects , farre more excellent , wee have prerogatives above them , is as cleare , cer. . , , . matth. . , . so one christian church have prerogatives above another , but the essentiall constitution of the church of the jewes , and ours is one . . they were a ro●a●d priest-hood , a people holy to the lord , the covenant made with them , as with us . . to them one little leaven , leavened the whole lumpe . . separation from sinne and idolatrous worship was commanded them , as it is us . . amongst them , none who hated to be reformed , were to take the law of god in their mouth . but to returne to our author , it is a false ground that one that is baptized in one church , hath not right to the lords supper in all churches , for if he be baptized to christs death , he is baptized to all churches . and . professedly in covenant with god in all churches , and so hath right to the seales of the covenant in all churches , for gods covenant is not principally and first made with a parishionall congregation , but with the catholike and universall church comming under the name of israel and iudah ; and secondarily with a parishionall congregation . is a beleever a member of christs body in one congregation and not in all congregations ? hath he the keyes as a member of christs body , and a dwelling house for the holy spirit in one congregation , and loseth them and the holy spirit both when he goeth to another congregation ? manuscript , those who come from england to us are under publike scandals and reproach . it is an offence that they come to us , as members of no particular church visible , ( for they leave that relatiin where they left their habitation ) but of one nationall church , whereof christ hath given us no patterne in the new testament , and in 〈◊〉 he hath appointed no nationall worship to be performed . answ. it is admirable that leaving a parishionall church in england , they leave not the true visible church , so all the parishionall churches in england must be separated from , as ●●om no churches ; yet in that church , many of you had your baptisme , your conversion to christ , your calling to the mini●e●● . . how can it be an offence to be members of no independent churches in england , whereas no such may be had there ? . is it a fault to be members of a nationall church ? see if act. . act. . act. . there be not a church-meeting , and publike exercise of praying , discussing of matters by the word , choosing of officers , refuting of false doctrine ? this is worship , and it is not the worship of a particular church , but there be no true churches but yours , and all are in offences and scandalls , who are not members of your churches ; this a augustine layeth to donatists , this b pareus layeth upon au●baptists , that they taught , they onely were the true church . i conceive our deare brethren are not of this mind . manuscript , it is a publike offence , that though they were baptized in some parish church in england ( saith the author ) upon som● covenant and stipulation of parents , or god-fathers , which also was without warrant , yet they come to the lords table , without any publike profession of their faith or repentance ? answ. to say nothing of god-fathers , who are civill witnesses , that the parents shall take care to educate the childe , in the true faith , we see no publike profession by a church-oath , ( as you meane ) in the church of corinth , but onely that every man was to trye himselfe , and then to eate , nor in the apostles church at all , if you debarre them from the lords supper , who are not inchurched by your oath , all the reformed churches on earth did never worthily eate and drinke the lords body and blood . it is ( saith he ) a publike offence , that in the parish communion ( which not communion of spirits , but cohabitation begetteth ) they partake with all ignorant and scandalous persons , not excluding drunkards , prophane swearers , whereby it commeth to passe that not a little leavin , but a great measure of leavin doth deepely leavin the whole lumpe . answ. this tolleration of drunkards and swearers in the lords church , and at his table , infecteth and is apt to leavin all , with their evill conversation , but doth not leavin the worship to the fellow-worshippers , nor is the sinne of private persons , yea nor of our ministers , who hath not power to helpe it , ( but it is the fault of the church ) except you make no separation from a church where a scandalous person is tolerated ( for suffering moe or sewer doth not vary the spece ) to be a sin publickely to be repented , before any can be members of your church , which is prodigious to us . fourthly , it is a publicke offence ( saith the authour ) that they have worshipped god , according to the precepts of men , &c. answ. this is the crime of conformity which i wish were publickely repented , by all which hath defiled themselves with submitting to a antichristian government , and the will-worship of men , yet doth not this make ministers no ministers , so as they must receive ordination to the ministery of new . peters fall took not away his apostleship , nor jonah● flying from god , nor davids adultery made them not leave off to be prophets . other arguments that i find in papers from new england are these : first , there is not a church ( say they ) under the new testament , but a congregationall church , so it will follow , that as city priviledges belong onely to the citizens and their children , so baptisme and the lords supper , being church priviledges , belong onely to the members of particular churches , and their seed ; and that seeing sigillum sequitur donum , to apply them to any other , is to abuse them . as the scale of an incorporation is abused , when it is added to confirme a gift to one who is not a free man of that incorporation , he being incapable thereof . answ. first , the case is not here , as in earthly cities , a man who is a free citizen in one burrough is not for that a free citizen of all the burroughes and cities on earth ; nor is he who is civilly excommunicated and cast out of his city priviledges in one city , cast out of his city priviledges in all other cities , whereof he is a free member : and the reason is , there is not one common owner , and lord of all the cities on earth , who can give , or take away , in a law-way , city priviledges ; but the case is farre otherwayes in the priviledges of visible churches , for he who is a member of one visible congregation , is by his baptisme , and sincere profession , and his professed standing in covenant with god , a member of all visible congregations on earth , as he is baptized in all congregations on earth ; and if he be excommunicated out of a single congregation , he is excommunicated out of all , and loseth right to the scale of the lords supper , in all visible congregations , as his sinnes are bound in heaven to all also , for that one common head and saviour , who giveth him right to the seales of christs body and blood in one , giveth him right to these seales in all . for we worthily communicate with christ in his body and blood , 〈◊〉 his body was broken , and his blood shed for one single visible congregation , but as broken and shed for the whole 〈…〉 universall . but this forme of reasoning utterly abolisheth all communion of churches , nor can a member of one noble church be capable of the seales of grace in another visible church , because he is not a member of that visible church , no more then one is capable of the priviledges of paris , who is onely a citizen of london , and not a citizen of paris . if it be said , one who is a member of a visible church , may receive the seales in another congregation , if he be recommended by letters , as a sound professor , to that other congregation . i answer , recommendatory letters can never give a church-right to the church-priviledges of the seales of the covenant , they doe but onely notifie , manifest , and declare the church-right , which the man had before . ergo , either he cannot in any sort be capable of the seales of the covenant in another congregation , then his owne , whereof he is an inchurched member , which destroyeth all communion of sister churches , or if he be capable of the seales in another congregation , he was capable and h●d a church-right , in himselfe , before he received reconime●●a●ory letters : yea , these whom we recommend by letters as ●it to partake of the sacraments in another congregation , ●● presuppose they have church-right to the seales in another congregation visible , then in their owne , whereof they are members ; except our testimony be false . ergo , before our recommendatory letters , the person of approved piety was a member of all the visible churches about , hoc ipso , and by that same reason , that he is a member of one visible congregation ; yea peter clearely insinuateth that all who have received the holy ghost , are to be baptized , act. . . as philip , act. . . and that if the eunuch beleeved , be might be baptized . so that faith , to speake properly , doth give us right to the seales , and to speake accurately , a visible profession of faith doth not give a man right to the seales of grace , but onely it doth notifie and d clare to the church , that the man hath right to the seales because he beleeveth , and that the church may lawfully give to him the seales , and that profession is a condition required in the right receivers of the seales in an ecclesiasticall way ; but faith giveth the right to these seales , and because the faith of the beleever goeth with the beleever , when he goeth to another visible congregation then his owne , that faith giveth him right to the seales in all places , and in all congregations : for faith giveth right to receive christ sacramentally , not in one congregation onely , but in all , and a visible profession doth , as a condition notifie this faith , and church-right in all congregations . ergo , the man hath right in all congregations , as he hath right in a parishionall church . but our brethren reply , peter might baptize cornelius , though he was no member of a visible congregation , because the apostles being ●fficers in al churches , might dispense the seales in all churches : but ministers now are pastors onely of the determina●e flocke , over which the holy ghost hath set them , therefore they have not citie seales at their power to dispense to any other then to citizens . answ. peter his argument to baptize is not from a temporall reason , that endureth for a while , but from a morall argument of perpetuall equitie and necessitie , till christs second comming . he that beleeveth and hath received the holy ghost is to be baptized . but many out of church-state , and who are not members of a particular congregation , have received the holy ghost , and doe beleeve , being christians of approved pietie ; we are to adde no restrictions , or exceptions where god addeth none . non est distinguendum , ubi lex non distinguit . they that beleeve should receive the seales , but not except they be in-churched and members of a particular congregation . the proposition is gods word , but the restriction or exception is not gods word . . the apostles , though they were universall pastors of the world , yet teach us by word and practise , who are to be admitted to the seales , even to the supper , those who do try and examine themselves , and that to the end of the world . . our brethren say , it is probable that cornelius was in church-state , and the eunuch comming to jerusalem to worship , argueth he was a proselyte , and a member of the jewish church not yet dissolved ; lydia and the jaylor were members of the church of philippi , which church communicated with paul at the beginning of the gospel , psal. . . at least it is probable , that lidia was a member of the church of the jewes . answ. it is hard to build a new church government contrary to the doctrine of the reformed churches upon probabilities . . if cornelius , lydia and others were members of the jewish church , it was not a good consequence by our brethrens doctrine to make them members of a christian congregation , without in-churching of them by your church-oath , for you make the constitution of the jewish church , and ours different ; yea and as you teach , all circumcised were members of the jewish church , and had right to their passeover , but all circumcised are not meet to bee members of a christian church , for many circumcised were idolaters , murtherers , prophane mo●ke●s of god , esay . , , , . jer. . , , , , . ezek , . . . , . and though the church of philippi was one of the 〈◊〉 church 〈◊〉 communicated with paul , yet was there no christian church of elders and people there , when lydia was converted , for acts . . in the place where prayer was wont to be made on the sabbath day , none heard paul preach , but some women , ergo there could not be a christian church there ; and it is certaine the jaylor before was a persecutor , and no member of a christian church . they say abraham and his seede were not circumcised , till god called him into church-covenant , and so into church-state , and there is the same reason and use of baptisme , as of circumcision . if the argument taken for baptizing of infants be good , why may we not inserre a necessitie of church-membership , before baptisme , as of church membership before circumcision ? so the apologie saith . it cannot be proved that baptisme was imposed upon all beleevers , as such , no more then it can be proved that circumcision was imposed upon all beleevers as such ; and baptisme is no more now necessary to a beleever , whose calling or another strong hand of gods providence will not suffer to live in church fellowship with gods people , then circumcision was necessary to melchisede●k , job or others , whom the hand of god detained from church-fellowship , with the posteritie of abraham ; yea circumcision and the passeover , seeing they were administrated in private houses , might more conveniently be administrated to persons not in church-state , nor baptisme and the lords supper can be administrated so , in respect they are seales given to a church body in an assembly , cor. . . and . . answ. abraham , sarah , and the soules they had gotten in charran , were in church-state , obeyed god , built an altar gen. . , , . before the church covenant , which you speake of , chap. . and it is denyed that that supposed oath of the covenant made them a church : so we see no necessitie of church-membership , to one single congregation , before either circumcision or baptisme ; for baptisme is a seale of our entry into the visible church , as i shall prove . . we say not that baptisme is imposed on all who beleeveth , as they are such , for god saveth divers beleevers , who are not baptized , but gods will , the supreme i aw-giver , here is to be looked into , god would have no circumcision from adam to abraham , and would himselfe have the people want circumcision in the wildernesse fortie yeares , and would have it administrated in private houses , it being a bloody and painefull sacrament , but we have an expresse commandement of god to baptize all ordinarily of the visible church ; yet not because they are members of one single congregation , but because they beleeve & testifie themselves to be members of the visible church in generall : we deny that the want of membership in a particular congregatiō , is that strong band that should hinder baptisme or the seales of the covenant . god hath appointed no lawfull calling , such as traffiquing by seas & ●equent travelling ordinary to transient members of the visible church , to be inconsistent with the lawfull partaking of the ordinances of grace , & seales of the covenant ; for only those who doe not try and examine themselves , and are prophanely scandalous are excluded , as swine , from the holy things of god , and from the lords supper , not men , because they are necessarily busied in a lawfull calling , and must ordinarily travell to farre countries , and so cannot be members of a single parish . . this is a physicall impediment and not a sinne , nor a morall impediment , excluding any from the seales of grace , yea and an unwritten tradition . . i speake against that difference which the author maketh , betwixt the seales of grace in the old testament , and the seales of grace in the new testament , for there were physicall and civill defects in the old testament , which by a divine law , made some incapable of the passeover , as if any were lepers , bastards , borne moabites and ammonites , or typically uncleane , or had touched the dead , they could not eate the passeover , though otherwise they did beleeve in christ to come , and were morally cleane , but by the contrary under the new testament , there be no physicall or ceremoniall defects , no callings , no civill relations , but onely morall defects , and sinfull scandals , which doth exclude men from the seales of grace , except you bring in ceremonies in the new testament , of your owne devising , for all nations , so they beleeve in christ , jew , or gentile , barbarian , or scythian , bond or free , male or female , are to be baptized , matth. . . god is no accepter of 〈◊〉 , or nations , or callings , act. . , . compare this with ver . , . and gal. . . for as many of you as have beene baptized unto christ , have put on christ , v. . there is neither iew nor g●●ek there is neither bond nor free , there is neither male nor female , for 〈◊〉 all me in christ jesus , so gal. . . for in christ jesus neither circumcision● waileth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but a new creature . i must then say , it is boldnesse in men to say , that there is a lawfull calling in the new testament , which our brethren are pleased to call the strong hand of god , which maketh persons who are new creatures , and baptized unto christ , uncapable of the seales of grace . deare brethren , yeeld to the cleare and evident truth of god. and for this cause , the seales of the new testament must be more necessary in this respect , then were the seales in the old testament . our brethren say , all circumcised might eate the passeover ( though i doubt much of it ) and might enter into the temple , if they were not legally uncleane , but all baptized may not ca●e the lords supper ; and all baptized , though excommunicated , may enter into the congregation for the publicke worship , hearing the word , praying , praising , &c. but all circumcised , might not enter into the congregation . the places cor. . . and . . prove not , that the seales of grace are administrated to a church body , of a particular congregation only , as they are such ; for these seales are common to all the visible churches on earth . we many are one body , it is not to be exponed , we many are of one parishionall congregation , and onely are one body ; but we many of all the visible churches on earth , are one body in christ. this you must say , except you deny all visible communion of sister churches . the object . they who are not capable of church censures , are not capable of church priviledges . but those that are not within the church covenant of a particular congregation , are not capable of church censure . the proposition being evident , the assumption is proved , cor. . . what have i to doe to judge those who are without , that is , without the communion of a particular congregation , so amesius , de consc . l. . c. . quest . . resp . ad . answ. first , i answered before , the major is false , by your owne doctrine , those of another congregation cannot be censured , but by their owne congregation , yet by letters of recommendation , they may receive the lords supper in another congregation . also strangers of approved piety , may be capable of church rebukes , which are church censures . secondly , the place , cor. . . is manifestly abused , for by those who are without , are meant onely the insidels and heathens who are without the whole visible church , and not those of approved piety , who are baptized and professe the truth sincerely : for peter martyr , beza , calvin , marlorat , pareus , zwinglius , so also haymo , aquinas , expone it with us ; which is cleare , first , by the phrase of speaking ( what have i to doe ? ) being a note of estrangement , as , joh. . . woman what have i to doe with thee ? and sam. . . david said , what have i to doe with you , ye sonnes of zerviah ? now paul and the faithfull at corinth are not estranged from those of approved piety of other congregations , he tooke care to edifie and rebuke them , and so are all the saints to edifie , censure , and rebuke one another . thirdly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , alwayes those who are without , are taken in an ill part , in the word of god , as mark. . . those who are without , are the blinded and hardned , and rev. . . for without are dogges , our brethren expone it of the visible church . now not to be in membership of such a particular congregation , is not a sin , nor a just ground of pauls estrangement of his ministeriall power from them , it may be caused by persecution when the flocke are scattered by wolves . fourthly , those who are here without , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are left by paul to the immediate judgement of god , and not to be judged of the church , ver . . but them that are without god judgeth . now those who are members of another congregation then the church of corinth , or members of no particular congregation , and yet of approved piety , are not left to the immediate judgement of god , because they are without . the banished servants of god , who suffer for the truth , or transient members , who because their calling is ordinarily traffiquing , and so not consistent with a membership in a setled congregation , are they ( i say ) without , not to be edified by the censures of the church , but left to the immediate judgement of god ? this is contrary to gods word , and an insolent interpretation , and i find i● not in your place of amesius . they reason from inconveniencies , hence ( say they ) church assemblies shall be confused meetings , if all out of church membership ●e admitted . answ. if by confused meetings you meane , meetings of sound beleevers and hypocrites , then christs kingdome compared to a draw-net , wherein are good and bad , are confused meetings and unlawfull ; which none can say but anabaptists . but if you meane meetings of these of your owne congregation and strangers of approved piety , these are not confused meetings , but you begge what is in question , and utterly abolish all communion of churches . they adde , the church shall endanger the propbaning of the seales , and want a speciall meanes whereby their grace and piety shall be dis●erned , if without respect of their church estate , men be admitted to the seales ; for their owne testimony is not enough : also how can they be of approved piety , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospell , by an orderly joyning themselves with some approved church when they have opportunity ? seeing church-fellowship is an action of piety required in the second commandement , and this meane of tryall hath beene so blessed that many approved men have beene after tryall found light to others , and to their owne consciences . answ. meanes of discovering sincerity or hypocrisie would be warranted by gods word , and meanes of eschewing the prophaning of the seales also . simon magus was not so tryed , yea when peter found him in the gall of bitternesse , we sinde not that he cast him out of the visible church in respect his sinne was not that publikely scandalous , as to offend the whole church . . we grant that strangers are not rashly to be admitted to the seales , but you prove them not to be of approved piety , because they will not sweare your church-oath , and your discipline , as the onely true way , and in so doing , you say they refuse church-fellowship commanded in the second commandement ; but this is to be proved , and not to be nakedly averred by you ; they beleeve , and can give evidences of their beliefe , & so should by the word of god be admitted to the seales . act. . . act. . . act. . , . ver . , , . cor. . . you deny them the seales , as i● they were dogges and unworthy prophaners of the seales onely , because they cannot sweare to your church-government , which you cannot prove from the word of god. . you deny them to be of approved piety who will not joyne to an approved church , you meane your owne onely . but you adde if they have opportunity , but what if they want opportunity , then the strong hand of god deharreth them , & their seed from the seales of grace ; now if any be to traffique by seas , and to travell to farre countries in a lawfull calling , he is legally uncleane and incapable of the seales to himselfe or his seede ; for he cannot in conscience and through necessity of his lawfull calling sweare your church-oath , for he must sweare to observe the manners of his fellow-members , to edifie them by exhortation , consolation , rebuking , to joyne himselfe in an eternall covenant to that visible church , yea never to remove thence , except the congregation consent : so your oath obligeth him to all these , now this is impossible because of his lawfull calling , and because he cannot be a church-member for ever : while he traffiqueth in his lawfull calling , the comfort of the lords supper is denyed to him , and baptisme to all his seede , and that by a strong hand of providence without any fault in him : shew us a warrant from the law and the testimony , where any are to be debarred from the seales of the covenant , and that ordinarily , ( where sicknesse and some other physicall impediments doth not occurre ) where there is no morall unworthinesse or guiltinesse in the persons debarred : will you debarre all from church-comforts , the presence of christ in his church , the comfort of his walking , beside the candlestickes , and his influence in the word preached , the power of the keyes , the rebukes of the saints , their exhortation and private comforting of sinners , the comforts of the ordinances of baptisme , and the supper of the lord , because a strong hand of providence in a lawfull calling doth perpetually debarre them ? . you say your trying of church-members is a meane blessed of god , to try many mens sincerity . i answer , unlawfull meanes , as the persecution of tyrants , may have this successe , what then ? is it a lawfull meane ? . i would gods name were here spared ; it is not a meane blessed of god , it chaseth away many from the net of the gospell , and the pastorall care of the shepheards , and is not a conquering way to gaine soules . john alasto ( say they ) in the dayes of edward the sixth , would bapize none , but such as were members of that church : and therefore p●●paned this question to the fathers , ( are these infants that you 〈◊〉 , the seede of this our church , that they may lawfully be baplized ? ) answ. john alasto had reason because of some present abuse , some indifferent atheists , infidels in heart , refused to joyne to either churches , either protestant or papists , and sought baptismeto their children in either churches , as they might have it , and therefore was that question proponed to the fathers , but it proveth not your point . alasto excluded the children of atheists , who would joyne to no church , as his words cited beare . ergo approved christians and their seede are to be excluded from the seales of the covenant . how weake is your reasoning ? if the rechabites ( say they ) the posterity of jethro , shall live in the ●idst of the common-wealth of israel , & some of them prove true beleeters , as jonadab the sonne of rechab . yet if they shall refuse to take bold of the covenant of israel , & to become pr●selytes , it is no sinne for israel to withold the passeover from them , & circumcision from their children ? answ. you might have proved your point a nearer way , many legally uncleane , and yet sound beleevers , because of leprosie , for no sinne were debarred from the seales amongst the jewes : but have you any law to debarre any from the seales of the covenant of grace under the new testament , and that ordinarily for no sinne ? . a calvin thinketh their vow not lawfull . b bucanus , c polyander , and d willet think it the lawfull vow of the nazarites , commanded numb . . what then ? if by gods law of the nazarites , they abstained from wine , and the passeover ? god is above his owne law , ergo , you may debarre men from the seales under the new testament for no sinne ; it doth not follow . . how prove yee , they abstained from the passeover ? being so divine a law , might not their vow suffer an exception for a greater law in eating the passeover ? i thinke it might , for in case of necessity they came and dwelt at jerusalem , for feare of the army of the chaldeans , jer. . . and yet their vow was to dwell in tents . from these ariseth , quest. i. if pastors may performe ministeriall acts in any other congregation than their owne . this is answered unto , by a manuscript , if you take a ministeriall act improperly , when a minister doth exercise his gift of praying and preaching , being required so to doe , so hee may exercise some ministeriall acts , but this he doth not by vertue of any calling , but only by his gifts and occasionally : but if you meane by a ministeriall act , an act of authority and power in dispensing of gods ordinances , as a minister doth performe to the church whereunto he is called to be a minister , then we deny that he can so performe any ministeriall act , to any other church , than his owne . hence though he may preach to another congregation , yet may he not administer the sacraments to an other then to his owne . answ. first , we hold that by a calling or ordination he is made a pastor , by election he is restricted to be ordinarily the pastor of his flocke . secondly , a pastor is a pastor of the catholike church , but he is not a catholike pastor of the catholike church , as were the apostles . thirdly , the reformed churches may send pastors to the indians , for that which acosta saith of jesuites , wee may with better reason say it of our selves : that pasiors are as souldiers , and some souldiers are to keepe order , and remaine in a certaine place , others run up and don ne in all places ; so some are affixed to a congregation , to feed them , others may be sent to those people , who have not heard of the gospel . which sending is ordinary and lawfull , in respect of pastors sending , and the pastors who are sent , because in pastors , even after the apostles be dead , there remaineth a generall pastorall care for all the churches of christ. thus sending is not ordinary , but extraordinary , in respect of those to whom the pastors are sent , yet is it a pastorall sending . this opinion of our prethren , is against the care of christ , who hath left no pastorall care on earth by this way , now since the apostles dyed , to spread the gospell to those nations who have not heard of the name of christ ; but a pastorall care for the churches , is not proper to apostles onely , but onely such a pastorall care by speciall direction from christ immediately to preach to all . . backed with the gift of tongues and of miracles ; and this essentially differenceth the apostle from the ordinary pastor ; but the former pastorall care to preach the gospell to all nations , and to convert , is common both to the apostle and pastor . . our brethren distinguish betwixt office and the calling , and they say that the office extendeth no further then the call , and by 〈◊〉 he is onely a pastor of this determinate flocke . but if he be a pastor essentially in relation to none , but to his owne congregation from which he hath all his calling , as is supposed , by that same reason a christian , is a baptized christian to none but in relation to that particular church in whose society he is admitted , and he doth partake of christs body and blood in the lords supper in relation to no visible professors on earth , but onely to the parish church whereof he is a member , cor. . . for they expone that onely of a parishionall communion within one single independant congregation . and he must be a heathen , or as a pagan in all congregations on earth , but in his owne , yea and he is a visible professor of the covenant of grace , which is one in substance , ( as they say ) with the church-covenant , and hath claime to christ and all his ordinances in no congregation save in his owne . i prove the consequence , for by baptisme the baptized person is incorporated in christs visible church . cor. . . if this be true when one removeth from one congregation to another , hee must bee re-baptized and incorporated a visible member of a body visible with them . and i see not how one can be in-churched to another congregation , and made one body therewith , while he eate of one bread with them , as they expone , cor. . . if he be not also a member of all visible churches on earth . . if a pastor can exercise no pastorall acts toward any congregation , save toward his owne , then a pastor as a pastor cannot pray for the whole visible churches of god : but the latter is absurd : ergo , so is the former . i prove the major , the praying for the whole visible churches is a pastorall act , due to a pastor as a pastor . . because every visible church is oblieged as it is a church to pray for all the visible churches on earth : for as a christian is oblieged to pray for all churches visible ; so farre more is a church : now a visible church doth not pray but by the pastor , who is the mouth of the people to god ; and that this is a pastorall duty due to a pastor , i thinke is said isa. . . i have set watchmen on thy tower , o jerusalem , which shall never hold their peace day nor night . yee that make mention of the lord , keepe no silence till he establish , and t●ll ●● make jerusalem the praise of the whole earth . also pastors as pastors are to pray for the king , though the king be no member of that congregation , whereof they be pastors . tim. . , . every pastor as a pastor is to preach against the sinnes of the land , else how can the people mourne for these sinnes ? ergo , the pastor doth exercise pastorall acts upon all the visible churches on earth , upon the king , and upon the whole land , to which he is not a pastor by speciall election . . if a pastor be oblieged to preach in season and out of season , and that as a pastor , and because he is a pastor . tim. . . ergo he is to preach as a pastor in any congregation where he shall be desired . they answer , he may preach the word in another congregation , not by vertue of a calling or office , but by vertue of his gifts . i answer , first , if he preach by vertue of a gift onely , he preacheth in that case , not as sent of god , and so int●udeth himselfe , and runneth unsent , and a meere gift to be a king or a magistrate , maketh not a magistrate , as a master robinson granteth . ergo one cannot warrantably exercise a pastorall act by vertue of a meere gift . . he may in another congregation preach with pastorall authority , and use the keyes by binding and loosing sinnes , according as hearers doe repent and harden their nockes against the gospell . ergo , he may preach as a pastor to another congregation . . there shall be no communion betwixt sister churches in pastorall acts as pastorall , which is absurd , the communion shall onely be of pastorall acts as christian acts , but in no sort betwixt them as pastorall acts . . the scriptures for this opinion are weak , ergo the opinion it selfe is weake , i prove the antecedent . act. . . feede the flocke , over which the holy ghost hath made you overseers . &c. there is no ground to feede even by preaching , or by vertue of a gift , these flockes over which the holy ghost hath not set you : obey them that are over you in the lord , heb. . . & c. there is no warrant to submit to other pastors that are not over you in the lord , though they command by vertue of a gift , not by vertue of an office or calling : these be loose consequences . . all reciprocation of mutuall duties amongst sister churches , whereby they exhort , rebuke , comfort one another , must be unlawfull , for these be church acts , and this author saith , the office extendeth no further then the calling , but there is no calling of church-membership betwixt sister-churches , and therefore all these duties are not acts of the communion of churches , as they are such churches or incorporations in a church-state , but onely duties of churches as they are saints , but communion of churches as churches in the act of church-dispensing of the word and seales reciprocally one to another , is not in the word of god , as this opinion will inferre , which is a weighty absurd . . the authors of this opinion hold , that if the congregation , for no fault , reject the pastor , whom they once called and elected to ●e their pastor , though in so doing they sinne , and reject god in rejecting him , yet they take nomen & esse , the name and nature of a pastor from him , yet ( say they ) hee still remaineth a minister of christ , till he accept a call from another congregation . hence . such a one is a pastor , and yet the people have taken name and nature of a pastor from him , as they gave him name and nature : ergo , he is either a pastor without a calling , which is absurd , or he remaineth a person in relation to another flocke , who never choosed him , nor gave him any calling . . to adde by the way , if he be capable of a calling to another church , ergo , for the time he is no minister , else they must say , he may be a minister capable of two callings , to two sundry ministeries , which yet maketh him a pastor not in relation to one single congregation onely . it is true , they object that the apostles , matth. . were commanded to preach to all nations , but pastors are not so now , but are commanded to feed the flocke over which god hath appointed them , act. . . but it is as true the apostles were commanded to preach to all nations , in opposition to the charge that the prophets of old were to speake to the people of israel onely , and the apostles matth. . forbidden to preach to the samaritans and gentiles ; and it is as true that gods spirit limited the apostles to preach to macedonia , not to bithynia ; now because this particular direction for places is wanting in the church , it is certaine that a man is yet a pastor in office in relation to as many as gods hand of providence shall send him unto , though he be chosen by a people to feed ordinarily one determinate flocke , and though he be not an extraordinary and immediatly inspired planter of churches , or the first planter , as were the apostles , yet is he a pastor in relation to all . and if this be not said , . it were simply unlawfull for pastors now to plant churches , and spread the gospell to those nations , who have not heard it , because all pastors now are ordinary , and none are immediatly inspired apostles : but it is certaine what the apostles did , by an extraordinary gift , as such immediatly called pastors , it is unlawfull for ordinary pastors to attempt to doe , as to attempt to speake with tongues , and to plant churches by speaking with tongues and confirming it with miracles , is unlawfull . papists , as bellarmine , suarez , acosta , ascribe this to the pope and his apostles . our divines answer that the apostles that way have no successors ; but what the apostles did by an ordinary pastorall gift , as to preach the word , administrate the sacraments , to erect and plant churches by ordinary gifts , where the pastors can speake to the churches by an ordinary gift in their owne language , they are oblieged both within and without the congregation , to preach as pastors , because where god giveth gifts pastorall to pastors , he commandeth them to exercise these gifts , else they digge their lords talent in the earth : but god giveth to pastors pastorall gifts to preach to others then their owne congregation , and to administrate the seales to them also , and to plant churches . ergo , it is presumed that the church doth give authoritie and an externall ministeriall calling to the exercise of these gifts . . it is an unwarrantable point of divinitie that the apostles and the pastors succeeding to them doe differ essentially in this , that apostles might preach as pastors to more congregations then one , and might plant churches , but pastors succeeding to them may not as pastors preach to more congregations then their owne , and may not plan● churches , for then planting of churches now were utterly unlawfull , because it is certaine there be no apostles on earth , and it is not lawfull for a pastor , yea nor it is lawfull for any other gifted person to doe that which is essentiall to an apostle and agreeth to an apostle as to an apostle . it is then unlawfull for our brethren , seeing they be not apostles , to plant churches in india . nor is that comparison to be regarded much ; a magistrate or an alderman of a citie may not lawfully exercise his office of magistracie in another citie whereof he is not a maior , and therefore a pastor cannot preach , ex officio , as a pastor in another congregation , whereof he is not a pastor , nor can he exercise discipline in another congregation then his owne , seeing another congregation hath not by voluntary agreement , oath or paction submitted themselves to his ministry , nor chosen him for their pastor . for i answer , the comparison halteth and doth not prove the point , for by one and the same act the citie hath chosen such a man both for to be a magistrate , and to be their magistrate , and have given him thereby authority over themselves onely , so he cannot exercise the office of a magistrate over another citie who hath not chosen him to be their maior or ruler . but the flocke doth not both call such a man , in one and the same act to be a pastor , and to be their pastor , but hee is made by the laying on of the hands of the elders , a pastor , and a pastor in relation to all to whom god in his providence shall send him to speake , the congregation by election doth give him no authority pastorall , but onely appropriate his pastorall authoritie to themselves in particular ; and when they refuse him againe and cast him off , they take not pastorall authoritie from him , for they cannot take away that which they cannot give ; he remaineth a pastor though they cast him off , as a colledge of physitians do promote a man to be a doctor of physicke to cure diseases , a towne calleth him to be their physitian , he may yet exercise acts of his calling , and ex officio , as a doctor , upon other cities and inhabitants of the countrey ; and when the city who choosed him for their physitian doth cast him off , they take not from him the office of doctorship which the colledge of physitians conferred upon him , for they cannot take from him that which they cannot give to him . yea if any of another flocke shall come and heare the word , the pastor offereth all in one pastorall sacrifice to god in prayer , though there be many of another congregation in the church hearing ; yea strangers beleevers communicate with him at the same table , yet is he not their pastor . if a pastor of a congregation die or be sicke , shall the children of beleevers , yea shall converted pagans being desirous to be baptized be defrauded of the comfort of baptisme , and of the lords supper , for no fault in them , but onely because their pastor is dead , may not the congregation by their desires and requests appropriate the office of pastors of another congregation in some particular acts to their necessitie ? yea is not their receiving of his ministry in that act ( when their pastor is dead ) a calling warranting him to officiate , hie & nunc ? even as the desires and choise of his owne flocke electing him to be their constant pastor , gave him a calling to be their pastor constantly , and in all the ordinary acts of his calling ? yea and it is sure as the holy ghost set him over his owne floeke in ordinary , because they choosed him to be their pastor , so that same holy ghost set him over this other congregation , in this act , to preach and administrate the sacraments to them , in this exigence of the death of their pastor ; for god who ruleth officers and disposeth of them in his house , disposeth of particular acts of his owne officers , and he is sent as a pastor from god to speake to the stanger hic & nunc , and to worke his heart to the love of christ , and that as a pastor no lesse then to his owne flocke , except we destroy communion of gifts , and of pastorall gifts , paul by the holy ghost was made the apostle of the gentiles , peter of the jewes , gal. . . yet peter as an apostle preached to , and baptized the uncircumcised gentiles , act. . . and paul exercised his office of an apostle upon the jewes also , both by preaching and baptizing , as the history of the acts , chap. . chap. . and other places may cleare , rom. . so that the contrary doctrine is a new conceite , not of god , and against the pastorall care of bringing in soules to christ. quest. ii. whether or no children be received into the visible church by baptisme . in this chapter the author will not have persons of approved pietie and baptized to be within the visible church , and a the author of the apologie saith , we doe not beleeve that children are received within the visible church by baptisme , for if they be not in christs church , before they be baptized , what hath a minister to doe to baptize them who are not of the church ? and if they be within the church before baptisme , how shall they be received in the church by baptisme ? if you say , they may be received , that is , declared by baptisme to have beene received into the church by the covenant of their fathers : we demand into which church ? not into our owne church , for their parents were never members of a church , and we cannot put the seale of god upon a falsehood ? not into the church from whence their fathers came , for we know not whether their fathers were casten out of the church , or not . some considerations are here to be set downe . . baptisme is not that whereby we are entred into christs mysticall and invisible body as such , for it is presupposed we be members of christs body , and our sinnes pardoned already , before baptisme come to bee a seale of sinnes pardoned , but baptisme is a seale of our entry in christs visible body , as swearing to the colours is that which entreth a souldier to be a member of such an army , whereas before his oath , he was onely a heart friend to the army and cause . . baptisme as it is such is a seale , and a seale as a seale addeth no new lands or goods to the man to whom the charter and seale is given , but only doth legally confirme him in the right of such lands given to the man by the prince or state , yet this hindereth not but baptisme is a reall , legall seale , legally confirming the man in his actuall and visible profession of christ , remission of sinnes , regeneration , so as though before baptisme he was a member of christs body , yet quoad nos , he is not a member of christs body visible , untill he be made such by baptisme . . this question toucheth the controversie anent the efficiencie , working and operation of the sacraments , of which i give a tast shortly . sacraments are considered as sacraments , in abstracto , in genere sign●rum ; the reprobate doe receive holy seales and sacraments , else they could not be said to prophane the holy things of god , and so they may be sacraments and worke no grace either by themselves or from god , all operation from , or about the sacrament then must be accidentall to a sacrament . . sacraments are considered in concreto , according to all which they include in their use , to wit , as they consist of the signe , the thing signified , the institution of god , and the promise of grace , and in this meaning a altisiodorensis ( as i conceive ) maketh the sacraments not efficient causes of grace , yet materiall causes containing grace , uti vas medicinam , so the scripture saith , baptisme saveth , as the physitians glasse cureth the disease , and b guliel . parisiens . said not ill , that the sacraments have a power to obtaine grace by faith and prayer , that is , being used in faith and sincere calling upon god , they obtaine grace ; so to speake accurately this is all about the sacrament , rather then from the sacrament : to which sense c durandus , d occam e gabriel biel f aliacensis doe deny the sacraments to be physicall instruments producing grace in a physicall way , ( though papists cry out against our divines for teaching so ) onely they say , god at the presence of the sacrament produceth grace of his meere free will , ad praesentiam sacramenti operatur deus gratiam ex solâ liberâ suâ voluntate . and for this cause g gregorius de valentia saith these schoolemen nihil amplius tribuere sacramentis , quam haeretici tribuunt , give no more to the sacraments then hereticks give ; yet h vasquez , and a jesult professor at rome i joan. de lugo teach that the sacraments are morall causes of grace , but not physicall . it is grosse that k henricus saith , that god createth grace , per tactum sacramentorum , by the touch of the sacraments , as christ cured the leper by the touch of his hand : for sacraments are not miracles , as papists say , phisicke worketh upon a mans body when he sleepeth , so doe sacraments justifie and worke grace , ex opere operat● , though the faith of the sacrament-receiver doe worke nothing at all . . sacraments are considered . . as holy signes . . as religious seales . . as instruments by which faith worketh . . as meanes used by , us out of conscience of obedience to christs commandement who hath willed us to use them . sacraments as signes are objective and morall causes , exciting the mind as the word doth in a morall way , they represent christ and him crucified , and this sacraments have commune with the word . the sacrament is a visible word teaching us . . sacraments have the consideration of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & non 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tantum , they be seales , and not teaching and representing signes onely : this way also they have no reall or physicall action in them or from them ; for a seale of a prince and state , as it is such , conferreth not an acre or rigge of land , but it is a legall declaration that those lands written in the body of the charter , doe duely belong to the person to whom the charter is given . but a arminians do here erre , as b episcopius , and also , c socinus , and d smalcius , who teach that the sacraments be nothing but externall rites and declarative signes , scadowing out christ , and the benefits of his death to us , because they find a morall objective working in the word of god , but a substantiall and physicall working betwixt us and christs bodie ( they say ) is ridiculous , but they would remember that this is an insufficient enumeration , the seale of a kings charter hath besides a morall action on the mind , by bringing to the mind such lands given to such a man , and so the seales , worketh upon the witnesses , or any who readeth the charter as well as upon the owner of the charter : i say beside this the seale hath some reall action , i grant not in it , but about it , and beside it ; for it sealeth that such lands are really and in effect given by the prince and state , the action is about the seale , not in or from the seale : when a generall of an army delivereth the keyes of a castle to a keeper thereof , he saith [ i deliver the house to you ] when he delivereth the keyes onely physically , and not the stones , walls or timber of the house , by a physicall action or physicall touch , contactu physico , yet in delivering the keyes , he doth really deliver to him the castle , but in a legall and morall way . arminians and socinians may see here that there is neither an action by way of naked representation and teaching , for the sacrament is a teaching signe to the beholders who receive it not , nor is it a physicall action , as if christs physicall body in a physicall way were given ; yet it is an action reall , and morall : so the sacraments are signes exhibitive and not naked signes . our brethren doe side with arminians and socinians , who so often teach that sacraments make nothing to be what they were not , but onely declare things to be what they are . it is true , the formall effect of a sacrament is to seale and confirme ; to seale and confirme is but a legall strengthning of a right , and not the adding of any new thing . yet in this the sacrament differeth from a seale . . that to a civill seale there is not required the beleeving and faith of the owner of the charter , to make the seale effectuall ; for whether the lord of the lands beleeve that his seale doth confirme him in the lands , or not , the seale of it selfe by the law of the prince & state maketh good his right to the lands : but sacraments doe not worke ex opere operato , as civill seales doe worke , even as physicke worketh upon the body , without the faith of the mind , though the man bee sleeping . hence the third consideration of a sacrament as an instrument , faith , in and through the sacrament being wakened and stirred up layeth hold upon christ his death and benefits , and for this cause there is a reall exhibition of the thing signified , and the sacrament is an exhibitive seale . . the sacrament in the use is considered as wee use it in obedience to god , who saith in the lords supper , do this in remembrance of me , and in this it differeth from a civill seale also . the prince doth not conferre a seale to confirme a man in his land upon condition , that he will make use of it , otherwayes it shall be to him as no seale . but god hath given the scale of grace upon condition that wee make use thereof in faith , else the sacrament is blanke and null . therefore if you beleeve , and not otherwayes , the sacrament of the supper sealeth and confirmeth you in this , that christ is given already , and is in the present given to be nourishment to your soule to life eternall ; and so oft as you eate , the certioration and assurance groweth , and the faith is increased , and a further degree of a communion with christ confirmed ; but it is not so in civill seales , though yee repeate and reiterate the same seale of lands , ten thousand times , it never addeth one aker more to the in heritance , because the repetition of a civill seale is not commanded under the promise of addition of new lands , nor is it commanded , as obedience to the owner of the charter , that hee should make use of the seale ; but from the using in faith , the sacrament , we receive increase of grace , and a sacramentall grace . hence baptisme is a seale of our incorporation in christs visible church , cor. . . for by one spirit we be all baptized into one body , whether we be jew or gentile , or whether we be bound or free , act. . . then they that received the word were baptized , and the same day there were added unto them three thousand souls , so matth. . . the taught disciples are to bee baptized in his name , act. . . philip was this way received in the christian church , and cornelius , act. . . and lidia , act. . . and the jaylor , vers . . . that which distinguisheth by a visible note the church as visible from the invisible church , and from other visible societies , and sealeth our visible union with christs body , that is , the seale of our entry in the visible church , but baptisme is such , ergo. . what circumcision was to the church of the jewes , that baptisme is to the christian church , because , in re significatâ , in the thing signified and inward substance of the sacrament , they were both one , col. . . . phil. . . but circumcision was a seale of the jewish entry in the visible church , gen. . . it being the covenant of god in the flesh , & the uncircumcised being commanded to be cut off from gods people , v. . . this is according to the scriptures and the doctrine of the fathers , augustine , cyrill , basilius , tertullian , hieronymus , theophylact , theodoret , ambrose , cyprian who constantly so teach ; so doe our divines a calvin , b beza , c bu●nus , d pareus , e piscator , f anton. wallaeus , g tilenus , h kickermanus . so zanchius , polanus , sihrandus , rivetus , fennerus , whittakerus , raynoldus , willetus , and the professors of leyden 〈◊〉 . our brethren say , it is the opinion of the i anabaptists , that the church is made by baptisme , and papists have the same conceit , and therefore place their font at the church doore to signifie mens entry into the church by baptisme ; but we beleeve not that baptisme doth make men members of the church , nor to be administrated to them who are without the church , as the way to bring them in , but to them that are within the church , as a seale to confirme the covenant of grace to them . answ. . anabaptists deny that any ought to be baptized while thy come to age , and while they beleeve and be regenerated : and they say not farre from your selves in this , who teach it to bee absurd , to put a blanke seale upon a falshood , and so you presuppone all to be regenerated , and truly within the covenant before they can be sealed to be within the covenant by baptisme ; and yet you do not think all infants of beleeving parents to be regenerated and truly within the covenant , then is the seale blanck . also you say , baptisme is not to be administrated to those who are without , but onely to those who are within the church , you meane not within the church by profession , for infants have no profession , and you say the sacrament cannot be put on a blanke or a falshood , ergo , you thinke all that are baptized ought to be within the church really , and not in profession ouely ; ergo they must all come to age and beleeve before they can be baptized . . we say not that baptisme maketh a church mysticall , and the true and lively body and spouse of christ , but that it is a seale confirming us of our entry in the visible church . . the placing of the font at the church doore as a mysticall signe of our entry in the church is an antichristian ceremony of mens devising , which wee disclaime . . if infants baptized must bee within the church , before they can be baptized , how deny you to receive them to the lords supper when they come to age , while they bee againe , by your church-oath , received within the church ? then are they both within the church , because they are baptized , and without the church , because they are not received in by your church-oath againe . . if baptisme be a seale of grace to confirme the covenant of grace to those who are within the church , that is , onely a single congregation , ( for you deny that there be any visible churches in the new testament save these onely ) then are persons baptized persons , and confirmed in the covenant of grace onely within a single congregation . i would know if baptisme should not then be repeated and reiterated in every ones person , as they come to a new congregation ; for they are confirmed in the covenant of grace , by baptisme onely in one single congregation , as you teach . their second and third reason is , a baptisme and all ordinances are priviledges given to the church , so it maketh not the church , but the church is before baptisme and all ordinances ; the use also of baptisme is to be a seale of the covenant , now a seale is not to make a thing which was not , but to confirme a thing which was . answ. . the church is indeed the church mysticall and the invisible body of christ before baptisme , but this proveth not but baptisme is a seale of our entry in the visible church , for if this be a good argument , your church-covenant , which to you is an ordinance of god , falleth to the grrund ; for persons are the true churches of christ before all the ordinances of christ ; ergo , by your church-covenant men doe not become christs visible church . . the argument hath no feet , for the ordinance of preaching the word is a priviledge of the church and ordinance of god , yet is not the church before the preaching of the word ; for birth is not before the seed , but the seed before the birth ; the preaching of the word is the seed of the church , pet. . . and a meane of gathering the church , rom. . . and it is also a priviledge of the church , for hee dealeth not so with every nation to send his gospell to them , psal. . , . . when you say that a seale doth not make a thing that was not , but confirme a thing that was ; while you would seeme to refute papists , who vainely teach that sacraments doe confe●re grace ex opere op●rato , by the deed done ; yet doe you make the sacrament but a naked signe , and take part with arminians and socinians , whose very arguments in expresse words you use ; for a socinius goeth before you in this argument , and so doth b smalcius follow him . 〈◊〉 and sealing there is required the trying of the thing , and some ●●●hing or document ; but that ceremony ( a baptisime ) and that rite , though it bee ●●ly , doth nothing to the remission of sins , but it doth onely shadow out , and as it 〈◊〉 deline●ue and point forth remission of sinnes by the washing of water ●xp●ned in the word of god. you say , sacraments 〈◊〉 make a thing that was not , but confirme a thing that was before ; you can have no other meaning then to deny all cansalitie and all reall exhibition of grace in the sacraments : for if a sacrament make not a thing that was not before , or if god give n●t , and really produce , conferre and exhibite grace , and a stronger measure of faith , and assurance of remission of sinnes , at the due and right use of the sacrament , the sacrament is a naked signe , and not an exhibitive seale . but if christ give and in the present exhibit as surely remission of sinnes , as the infant is washen with water , as our divines , and the c palatinate catechise teacheth , yea and d the confession thereof , and e the synod of dort teacheth , then by the sacrament of baptisme , a thing is made that which it was not . it is true a civill seale , as i said before , addeth no new lands to the owner of the charter , but if christ by his seales rightly and in faith used , doe not onely confirme grace and pardon , but also really exhibite and give grace and pardon in a further degree , and a new measure of assurance to the conscience which there was not before , you goe not a streas breadth from arminians and socinians , especially seeing f episcopius , g henricus welsingius saith that remission of finnes is not sealed by baptisme , but signified onely , and h the remonstrants in their apologie while they expone our communion with christ in the lords supper , and will reject a physicall union of our soules with the physicall substance of christs body , which we also reject , they say that communion signifieth onely a profession of one and the same worship , whereby christians sol●mnly testifie that they adhere to christ as to ●● partaker of the table of devils and of devils themselves , cor. . . is a testimony of a communion with the devills : but the word of god saith more , gal. . . as many of you as are baptized , have put on christ , so rom. . . therefore we are buried with ●im by baptisme unto his death , that like as christ was raised up from the dead , by the glory of the father , even so we also should walke in newnesse of life , ephes. . . that he might sanctifie and cleanse his church with the washing of water by the word , t it . . . and pet. . . the like figure whereunto even baptisme doth also now save us , &c. all this is more then a naked signification , otherwise manna saved israel , and the water of the rocke did wash them from their sinnes , and the sacrifice of bulls and goates did cleanse from sinne , and open heaven to sinners . therefore by baptisme and the lords supper something is made what it was not before , as by partaking of the table of devils , the partaker is really made a partaker with the devill , and an idolater ; and his idolatry that he committed before was not onely confirmed and signified to be what it was before . and in this civill seales and sacraments differ , as i observed before . argu. . god ( say they ) had a church when there was neither baptisme nor circumcision , yea baptisme hath beene administrated and no church-members made thereby , and men have beene made members of christ and not then baptized ; and john and christs disciples baptized , matth. . . john . . but neither christ nor john made new churches , they all living and dying members of the jewish church of which they were before , and if any of them after became members of christian churches , they were not then baptized when they were so admitted , having beene baptized before . answ. we teach not that baptisme constituteth the church simply , as the church , but that it is a seale of a visible membership , and all baptized by john baptist , and the disciples of christ , were thereby entred in a visible profession that they beleeved in christ already come , and so were made members and citizens by that publicke symbole and seale , that they were members of the christian church , though as yet it received not that name of a christian church , and they were members both of the jewish and christian church : for these are not contrary incorporations , and they needed not to bee baptized againe when they were added to the christian church , for they were never added to the visible christian church ; nor needed they to be added , seeing they were members of that church before . argu. . these inconveniences ( say they ) should follow . . baptisme should be administrate by such as are not ministers at all ; for who should baptize them who are converted without the church ? extraordinary officers are ceased and ordinary are limited onely to their owne f●●ks : also the church is before the ministers , for the church hath power to choose ministers ; now if baptisme make the church , then must ●●n be baptized before there be ministers to baptize them . answ. you see to what absurdities your owne grounds drive you , for if none can baptize but these of a fixed congregation , and if they can baptize none but their owne congregation , none as a sent pastor whose feet is pleasant on the mountaines , can preach and beget faith in a company of unbeleevers , not in a church-state , which is a limiting of the wise god , who by pastors as pastors can beget faith in men without a parishionall church , which is contrary to gods word , rom. . . . it is false that the church ministeriall , which only can baptize , is before the officers , for they should then be before themselves , which is absurd , nor is there such necessitie of baptisme , as that those who are no ministers should baptize . . inconvenient . it should follow that papists should be members of the church , for they have baptisme so farre right , as that it cannot be repeated . answ. if your church-covenant bee that which essentially constituteth a church-member , then papists , atheists , and hypocrites may be church-members also by this reason , because they may sweare your church-oath . hypocrites doubtlesse doe it . and this argument is as much for the anabaptists as against us , for it should prove that none should be baptized but members of the true church and sound beleevers : now by baptisme none a●e made members of the true church except where baptisme is received by true faith , which is more , nor can bee done by a papist ; nor is it inconvenient to say that papists as baptized & under that reduplication are members of the visible church , though as baptized thus and thus , they be not members of the true visible church , professing the sound faith . also ( say they ) baptisme may remaine where as church-membership is dissolved , as in the case of excommunication , matth. . . or of voluntary and unjust departure , job . . . jude . heb. . . in which case such schismaticks are no members of the visible church , as a am●sius saith : and if the church bee dissolved , the church membership ceaseth , for , relata se mutuo ponunt & tollunt . answ. this is against your selves , and doth as well prove that baptisme is not a seale of the covenant of grace , for an excommunicate person may remaine externally without the covenant to the visible church , when baptisme remaineth a seale , and may be a seale of a grace or priviledge , which is interrupted or removed in act , but remaineth in habite : as to bee the eldest sonne of a king , may be a seale of the sonnes hei●eship , and yet he may for a fault be disherited and cast out of his place . the church and church-membership are relata secundum es● , not secundum dici onely , or relata 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : but baptisme and church-membership are not so perfect relatives , but baptisme doth remaine and the church-membership may bee dissolved : as the burgesse ticket whereby a man hath right to all the citie priviledges may remaine , when the man for some crime committed against the citie hath lost all his citie priviledges and is not now a free citizen , in which case his burgesse ticket sealeth nothing to him : so baptisme sealeth not actuall membership in case of excommunication , yet remaineth baptisme valid in the acts of sealing other things . as for schismatickes who onely for schisme are out of the church , and doe hold no erroneous point of doctrine , and are not yet convinced , they are yet members of the visible church , as a morton saith from gerson , as also b glorianus ; but he who is casten out as a schismaticke , is in the same case with an excommunicate person . lastly , baptisme is not a priviledge of a particular visible church onely ; nor doth the place of cor. . vers . . meane of the visible parishionall church of corinth , but of the whole visible church of jew and gentile , bond and free , as the words doe beare . quest. iii. in what cases it is lawfull to separate from a church . in this discourse three things must bee discussed , . with what church retaining the doctrine of fundamentalls , we are to remaine . . whether our separation from rome bee not warrantable . . whether wee may lawfully separate from true churches , for the sinnes of the churches . cor. . . another foundation can no man lay , then that which is laid , jesus christ. hence jesus christ is the foundation of faith reall or personall , and the knowledge of christ is the dogmaticall foundation of faith , upon this foundation some build gold , that is , good doctriae : some hay and stubble , that is , as c calvin faith , curious doctrine , d pareus , vaine and frivolous doctrine . we are to distinguish betwixt articles of faith , or res fidei , matters of faith , and fundamentall points of faith . matters of faith i reduce to three . . fundamentall points . . supra-fundamentalia , superstructions ●●illed upon fundamentalls . . circa-fundamentalia , things about ma●ers of faith ; for praeter fundamentalia , things indifferent and besides the foundation in matters of religion , and morall carriage , i acknowledge none ; fundamentalls are the vitall and noble parts or the soule of divinitie . the ignorance of fundamentalls condemneth , which is to be understood two wayes . . the ignorance of fundamentalls , such as are supernaturall fundamentalls , condemneth all within the visible church as a sinne ; but it doth not formally condemne those who are without the visible church , job . . . it onely maketh those who are without the church incurable , but doth not formally condemne them : as medicine not knowne , and so not refused , maketh sicke men incurable , as a losse , but doth not kill them as a sinne . . superstructures , which by consequence , arise from fundamentalls , are fundamentalls by consequent and secondarily ; as the second ranke of stones that are immediatly laid upon the foundation , are a foundation in respect of the higher parts of the wall , and therefore are materially fundamentall : and the ignorance of these virtually condemne , and the denying of such , by consequence is a denying of the foundation . things about the foundation , circa fundamentalia , are all things revealed in the word of god , as all histories , miracles , chronol●gie , things anent orion , the pleiades , the north starres , job . . . that paul left his cloakc at troas . the knowledge of these is considered three wayes . . as necessary , by necessitie of a meane , necessitate medii , and the knowledge ; so is not necessary to salvation , many are in glory ( i doubt not ) who lived in the visible church , and yet knew never that sampson killed a lion ; but the knowledge of all these is necessary , necessitate praecepti , because all in the visible church are oblieged to know these things , therefore the ignorance of these onely doth not actually condemne , but virtually and by demerit lead to condemnation . . this knowledge is considered as commanded in the excellency thereof , and so error and bad opinions about these are sinfully ill , though in the regenerate , by accident , such errors condemne not , where the foundation is holden . . the knowledge of these is considered as commanded and enjoyned to us with the submission of faith ; for the authority of god the speaker , and the malicious opposing of these is a fundamentall error , not formally , but by evident consequent , for though the matter of these errors be not fundamentall , yet the malicious opposing of these is a fundamentall error against this principle [ what ever god saith is true ; ] but god saith there were eight soules in the arke of noah . hence because the historiall things of scripture and things about the foundation , as that paul purified himselfe with the jewes , act. . that paul rebuked peter , gal. . is no lesse true , because god hath so spoken in his word , then this fundamentall point [ jesus christ came into the world to save sinners ] it is cleare that the specifice and essentiall forme of a fundamentall article is not taken from the authoritie of god speaking in the word , ( seeing gods authoritie is one and the same in all that he speaketh ) but from the influence that the knowledge of an article hath to unite us to god in christ , and bring us to salvation . and secondly , it will follow that this [ thou shalt not by the use of things indifferent kill him for whom christ died ] and the like be no lesse fundamentall , by evident consequent , in respect it is spoken by gods own authority , then articles of our faith , thirdly , it followeth that formalists ignorantly divide matters of gods worship , into matters of faith , or points fundamentall , and things indifferent , as if many scripturall truthes were not to be found in gods word , such as the miracles of moses , and elias , the journeyes of paul , which are neither matters fundamentall , nor yet things indifferent . fourthly , many things may be fundamentall , by consequent , to one who can reade the word , and heareth it read , which is not by consequent fundamentall to a rude and ignorant man. the knowledge of points fundamentall is necessary . . to obtaine salvation . . to keepe communion with a true church ; for we are to separate from a church subverting the foundation and laying another foundation . fundamentalls are restricted by many to the creed of athanasius , and b gregorius nazimzen , and c cyrillus of jerusalem , to the apostles creed ; ( as it is called ) others reduce all fundamentalls to the famous creeds of ni●e , of constantinople , of ephesus , of chalced●n ; d estius restricteth fundamentalls to things necessary for the well ordering of our life ; e davenantius saith better , that such are fundamentall , the knowledge whereof is simply necessary to salvation , i● ignorance whereof doth condemne . doctor potter calleth them p●ime and capitall doctrines of our religion , or of that faith which essentially constituteth a true church , and a true christian ; which is good , but that he contradivideth from these things not fundamentall , which may be disputed on either side , and cannot be determined by the word of god , and must lie under a [ non liquet ] is his error . yet he may know that g bellarmine saith right many things are of faith , ( and cleare in scripture , as historicall relations ) which are not fundamentall . h camero , and a greater divine then camero i dom. beza reduceth all fundamentalls to things which necessarily belongeth to faith and obedience : and k great calvin retrincheth fundamentalls within the apostles creed : l occam will have the militant ( catholicke ) church alwayes explicitely or expressly beleevings things necessary to salvation : and our divines teach that the catholike church cannot erre in fundamentalls : they meane with pertinacie and obstinacie . . in all fundamentalls . . totally and finally . but wee are not to beleeve papists , who say things are fundamentall , materially in themselves , as all points necessary to bee beleeved , but things are not formally fundamentall , but such things onely as the church d●fineth to be fundamentall . but . the foundation of our faith is gods word , and gods word is necessary to be beleeved to salvation , whether the church define it or no : to abstaine from idolatry is necessary to be beleeved , though aaron and the church of israel say the contrary , neither doth gods word borrow authority from men . . if the church may make points to be fundamentall by their definition , whereas before they were not fundamentall , then may the church make articles of faith ; sure i am paipsts , as gerson , occam , almaine , suarez , yea and a very bellarmine is against this . yea and by that same reason they may make fundamentall points to bee no fundamentall points , and they may turne the apostles creed into no faith at all , for ejusdem est potestos creare & annihilare . . there cannot be a greater power in the church , to define articles of faith , then is in god himselfe ; but the very authority of god doth not define a matter to bee an article of faith , except the necessitie of the matter so require , for god hath determined in his word , that paul left his cloake at treas , but that paul left his cloake at troas , is not ( i hope ) an article of faith , or a fundamentall point of salvation . . what can the church doe , ( saith a vincentius lyrinens . ) but declare that that is to be beleeved , which before in it selfe was to bee beleeved : and b bellarmine saith , councells maketh nothing to be of infallible verity , and so doth c scotus say , verity before heresies ( erat de fide ) was a matter of faith , though it was not declared to be so by the church : determinatio non facit vertatem , saith o●cam , the churches determination maketh no truth . . the evidence of knowledge of fundamentals is gravely to bee considered . hence these distinctions . . one may beleeve that christ is the sonne of god by a divine faith , as peter doth , matth. . . and yet doubt of the necessary consequences fundamentall . ergo , christ must bee delivered into the hands of sinners , and bee crucified , as the same peter doubted of this : for as one may fall in a grievous sinne , though regenerated , and faile in act , and yet remaine in grace , in habitu , the seed of god remaining in him ; so may peter and the apostles doubt of a fundamentall point of christs rising from the dead , john . v , . in an act of weakenesse , and yet have saving faith in christ , as it is like many of of the saints at corinth denyed an article of their faith , the rising againe of the dead : one act of unbeleefe maketh not an infidell . . dist. a simple papist and a lutheran not well educated doth beleeve upon the same former ground , that christ is true man , & hath an habitual faith of this article , that jesus christ is truly the son of david , & yet holdeth transubstantiation , or consubstantiati● , that christs body is in many sundry places in heaven , and earth , on this side of the sea , & beyond sea , yet the conn●xion betwixt christs humanitie and this monster of transubstantiation not being possible , all the error may be meerely philosophick , that the extention of quantitative parts without or beyond part , is not the essence of a quantitative body ; while as the rude man beleeveth firmely that christ is true man , and so beleeveth contradictory things by good consequence ; therefore the qualitie of the conscience of the beleever is to be looked into , since fundamentall heresie is essentially in the mind , and pertinacy and selfe-conviction doth inseparably follow it . . there is a conscience simply doubting of fundamentall points , this may be with a habit of sound faith . . a scrupulous conscience which from light grounds is brangled about some fundamentall points , and this is often in sound beleevers , who may and doe beleeve , but with a scruple . . a conscience beleeving opinions and conjecturing and guessing , as in atheists , this is damnable ; but where obstinacy is , as defending with pertinacie transubstantiation , and that it is lawfull to adore bread , this pertinacious defending of idolatry doth inferre necessarily , that the faith of the article of christs humanitie is but false and counterfeit , and not saving . . dist. there is a certitude of adherence formall , and a certitude of adherence virtuall . a certitude of adherence formall is , when one doth adhere firmly to the faith of fundamentalls . a certitude of adherence virtuall is , when with the formall adherence to some fundamentall points , there is an ignorance of other fundamentall points , and yet withall a gracious disposition and habit to beleeve other fundamentalls , when they shall bee clearely revealed out of the word , so luke . christ exponed the resurrection , and the articles of christs sufferings and glorification , vers . , , . to the disciples who doubted of these before , and yet had saving faith of other fundamentall points , matth. . . . . hence there be two sorts of fundamentalls , some principally and chiefely so called , even the elements and beginning of the doctrine of christ , as credenda , things to be beleeved in the creed , the object of our faith ; and p●tenda , things that we aske of god , expressed in the lords prayer , the object of our hope specially . . agenda , things to be done , contained in the decalogue , the object of our love to god and our brethren ; others are so secundarily fundamentall , or lesse fundamentalls , as deduced from these ; yea there be some artcles of the creed principally fundamentall , these all are explicitely to be beleeved , noted by a vigilius martyr , and b pareus : as that christ died and rose againe , &c. other articles are but modi articulorum fundamentalium , and expositions and evident determinations of cleare articles : as christs incarnation , and taking on our flesh is explained by this , conceived of the holy ghost , and borne of the virgin mary ; the death and suffering of christ is exponed by subordinate articles , as that he suffered under pontius pilate , was crucisied , &c. and these lesser fundamentalls are to be beleeved , necessitate praecepti , because god commandeth them , but happily non necessitate medii . it is possible many bee in glory who beleeve not explicitely , but onely in the disposition of the mind , ( as some are baptized , in voto , in their desire onely ) these lesser fundamentalls , it is enough they have the faith of non-repugnancy , or negative adherence to these , so as they would not deny them , if they had beene proponed to them in a distinct and cleare way . . the faith of fundamentalls is implicit three wayes . . in respect of the degree of beleeving . . in respect of the object . . in respect of the subject , or our adherence to things beleeved . in respect of degrees the faith is implicite and weake three wayes , as calvin may teach . . because we are ignorant of some lesse fundamentalls . . because we see in a mirror and imperfectly . . in respect of beleeving upon a false ground , as for miracles . in respect of the object , the certaintie is most sure , as sure as that god cannot lie . in respect of our adherence of understanding and affections ; in this respect the knowledge of fundamentalls must bee certaine . . by a negative certitude which excludeth doubting , and so pastor and people must have a certitude of fundamentalls , as rom. , . col. . . heb. . . but for a positive certitude there is not that measure required in a teacher that is in a scholler , for all the body cannot be an eye , cor. . . yet is a christian certitude and fulnesse of perswasion required even of all christians , colos. . . colos. . . highest and greatest in its kind , though many may bee saved with lesse , yet a distinct knowledge of fundamentalls in all is not necessary by a necessitie of the meanes , necessitate medii , as beza and doctor ames teach . there is a faith of fundamentalls implicite in respect of the will and affections which papists make a wide faith , as the j●u●e becanus thinke to beleeve these two fundamentalls , . that there is a god. . that this god hath a providence con●●●ning mens salvation , though other particulars be not knowne . or implicite faith is , saith estius , when any is ready to beleeve what the church shall teach ; which faith ( suarez saith ) though it include ignorance , yet keepeth men from the danger of errors , because it doth submit the mind to the nearest rule of teaching , to wit , to the church ; the knowledge of fundamentalls in this sense doth not save , but condemne . thomas saith better then he . . dist. they are not alike who beleeve fundamentall here●ies . . and who defend them . . and who teach them , and obtrude them upon the consciences of others . for the first , many beleeve fundamentall errors who are ignorant of them , and doe thinke that they firmely adhere to christian religion , o●cam termeth such , haereticos nescientes , ignorant heretickes , as the marcionites , and the manicheans , and these the church should tolerate while they bee instructed . it is true the jesuite meratius saith , when many things are proposed to the understanding for one and the same formall reason , to wit , for divine authoritie , the understanding cannot imbrace one but it must imbrace all , nor ●●ject one , but it must reject all , which is true of a formall malitious rejecting ; the manichean beleeveth nothing because god saith it , and hath faith sound and saving in nothing , but it is not true of an actuall or virtuall contempt , in one or two fundamentalls , because beleevers out of weakenesse , ignorance , and through strength of tentation may doubt of one fundamentall , as the disciples doubted of the resurrection , joh. . . and yet in habite beleeve all other fundamentalls , but the church is to correct such as professe fundamentall heresies , and to cast out of the church seducers and deceivers . . dist. it is one thing to hate a fundamentall point , as that [ christ is consubstantiall with the father ] as the arians doe , and another thing , by consequence to subvert a fundamentall point , as papists by consequence deny christ to bee true man , while they hold the wonder of transubstantiation , yet doe not they hate this conclusion formally [ that christ is true man. ] . dist. though it were true which doctor christo. potter saith , if we put by the points wherein christians differ one from another , and gather into one body the rest of the articles , wherein they all gnerallaly agree , we should finde in these propositions , which without all controversie are universally received in the whole christian world , so much truth is contained , as being joyned with holy obedience may be sufficient io bring a man to everlasting salvation . i say , though this were true , yet will it not follow that these few fundamentalls received by all christians , papists , lutherans , arians , verstians , sabellians , maccdonians , nestorians , eutychanes , socinians , anabaptists , treithitae , antitrinitarii ( for all these be christians and validely baptized ) doe essentially constitute a true church , and a true religion . because all christians agree that the old and new testament is the truth and word of god , and the whole faith of christian religion is to bee found in the old testament , acknowledged both by jewes and christians ; for that is not the word of god indeed in the old testament , which the jewes say is the word of god in the old testament . yea the old and new testament , and these few unc●n●●averted points received universally by all christians are not gods word , as all these christians expone them , but the dreames and fancies of the jewes saying , that the old testament teacheth that christ the messiah is not yet come in the flesh , the treithitae say there be three gods , yet are the treithitae christians in the sense of doctor potter : so that one principall as that there is one god , and christ is god and man , and god is noely to be adored , not one of these are uncontraverted , in respect every society of sectaries have contrary expositions upon these common fundamentalls , and so contrary religions . who doubteth but all christians will subscribe and sweare with us protestants the apostolicke creed but will it follow that all christians are of one true religion , and doe beleeve the same fundamentalls ? now these fundamentalls are the object of faith according as they signifie things . to us and to the treithitae this first article ( i beleeve in god ) as i conceive doth not signifie one and the same thing ; now joyne this ( i beleeve in god ) with holy obedience as wee expone it , and as the treithitae expone it , it could never bee a step to everlasting salvation ; for it should have this meaning , ( i beleeve there is one only true god , and that there be also three gods ) and what kind of obedience joyned with a faith made up of contradictions , can bee availeable to salvation ? . one generall catechise and confession of faith made up of the commonly received and agreed upon fundamentalls , would not make us nearer peace , though all christians should sweare and subscribe this common christian catechise , no more then if they should sweare and subscribe the old and new testament , as all christians will doe , and this day doth . . disl . though the knowledge of fundamentalls be necessary to salvation , yet it cannot easily be defined , what measure of knowledge of fundamentalls , and what determinate number of fundamentalls doth constitute a true visible church , and a sound beleever , as the learned voetius saith . hence . they are saved , who soundly beleeve all fundamentalls materially , though they cannot distinctly know them , under the reduplication of fundamentalls , nor define what are fundamentalls , what not . . though a church retaine the fundamentalls , yet if wee beforced to avow and beleeve as truth , doctrines everting the foundation of faith , against the article of one god ; if we must worship as many gods as there bee hosties , if christs kingly , priestly , and propheticall office be overturned , as we were forced in popery to do , we are to separate from the church in that case . it is not true that master robinson saith , this distinction of fundamentalls and non-fundamentals in injurious to growing in grace , whereas we should be led on to perfection , as if it were sufficient for a house , that the foundation were laid . answ. it followeth not , for the knowledge of fundamentalls is onely , that wee may know what is a necessary meane of salvation , without which none can be saved , notwithstanding , he who groweth not , and is not led on to perfection , never laid hold on the foundation christ ; nor are we hence taught to seeke no more , but so much knowledge of fundamentals , as may bring as to heaven , that is an abuse of this doctrine . . robinson faith fundamentall truthes are holden and professed by as vile heretickes as ever were since christs dayes , a company of excommunicates may hold , teach and defend fundamentall truths , yet are they not a true church of god ? answ. papists hold fundamentalls , and so doe jewes hold all the old testament and papists hold both new and old , but we know they so hold fundamentalls , that by their doctrine they overturne them ; and though there bee fundamentalls taught in the popish church , which may save if they were beleeved , yet they are not a true and ministeriall church simply , because , though they teach , that there is one god , they teach also there is a thousand gods whom they adore , and though they teach , there is one mediator , yet doe they substitute infinite mediators with and besides christ , so that the truth is , not a formall , ministeriall and visible active externall calling is in the church of rome , as it is a visible church , in the which wee can safely remaine , though fundamentalls be safe in rome , and the bookes of the old and new testament be there , yet are they not there ministerially as in a mother whose breasts we can sucke ; for fundamentall points falsely exponed , cease to be fundamentall points , yea as they be ministerially in rome , they be destructive of the foundation , though there bee some ministeriall acts valid in that church , for the which the church of rome is called a true church , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in some respect , according to something essentiall to the true church , yet never sine adjecto , as if it were a true church , where we can worship god. fundamentalls are safe in rome materially in themselves , so as some may be saved who beleeve these fundamentalls ; but fundamentalls are not safe in rome , ecclesiastice , ministeraliter , pastoraliter , in a church way , so as by beleeving these from their chaires so exponed , they can be saved who doe beleeve them . . out of which we may have the doctrine of faith and salvation as from a visible mother , whose daughters we are . some say the fundamentalls amongst lutherans are exponed in such a way as the foundation is everted ? i answer , there is a twofold eversion of the foundation . . one theologicall , morall and ecclesiastick , as the doctrine of the councell of trent , which is in a ministeriall way , with professed obstinacy against the fundamentall truths rightly exponed , and such an eversion of the foundation maketh the popish church no church truely visible , whose breasts we can sucke . but for lutheranes , their subversion of the foundation by philosophick consequences without professed hatred to the fundamentalls , and that not in an ecclesiasticke and ministeriall way , doth not so evert the fundamentalls , as that they bee no visible church . the learned pareus sheweth that there be no difference betwixt us and lutherans in heads absolutely necessary to salvation , the dissention is in one point onely anent the lords supper , not in the whole doctrine thereof , but in a part thereof , not necessary for salvation . there were divisions betweene paul and ba●nabas , betwixt cyprim an african bishop , and stephanus bishop of rome , anent baptisme of hereticks , which cyprian rejected as no baptisme ; betwixt basilius magnus and eusebius ce●ariensis , because basilius stood for the emperour va●ns his power in church matters ; so was there dissention betwixt augustine and hier●nimus anent the ceremonies of the jewes , which hyeronymus thought might be retained to gaine the jewes ; so there was also betwixt epiphanius and chrysostome anent the bookes of orig●n . the orthodox beleevers agreed with the novations against the arrians anent the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; the consubstantialitie of christ ; and though excommunicate persons defend and hold all fundamentalls sound , and so may bee materially a true church , yet because their profession is no profession , but adenying of the power of godlinesse , they cannot be formally a visible church , but are for scandalls casten out of the visible church . but ( saith robinson ) most of england are ignorant of the first rudiments and foundation of religion , and therefore cannot bee a church . answ. such are materially not the visible church and have not a profession , and are to be taught , and if they wilfully remaine in that darknesse are to be cast out . but ( saith he ) the bare profession of fundamentalls maketh not a church ; they must be a company of faithfull people , and if they must not be truely faithfull , then they must be falsely faithfull ; for god requireth true and ready obedience in his word , according to which wee must define churches , and not according to casuall things . answ. this is a speciall ground that deceiveth the separatists , their ignorance ( i meane ) of the visible church , for the visible church consisteth essentially neither of such as be truely faithfull , nor of such as must be falsely faithfull ; for the ignorant man seeth not that the visible church includeth neither faith , nor unbeliefe in its essence or definition . it is true , to the end that professors may be members of the invisible church , they must be beleevers , & must beleeve , except they would be condemned eternally ; but to make them members of the visible church neither beleeving nor unbeleeving is essentiall , but onely a profession ecclesiastically in tear , that is not scandalous & visibly & apparently lewd and flagitious , such as was the profession of simon magus , when he was baptized with the rest of the visible church , act. . and god indeed requireth of us true worship and ready obedience , as he saith , but not that a visible church should be defined by true and sincere obedience : for essentials onely are taken in a definition , and casuall corruptions are only accidentall to churches , and fall out through mens faults , and therefore should not be in the definition either of a visible or an invisible church ; nor should ready and sincere obedience which is a thing invisible to mens eyes , be put in the definition of a visible church , for it is accidentall to a visible church , and nothing invisible can be essentiall to that which essentially is visible ; the visible church is essentially visible . anent separation from rome we hold these propositions . . profession consistetly not onely in a publike ministeriall avowing of the truth , but also in writing , suffering for the truth , and death-bed-confessions of the truth ; these worthy men in their owne bowells , as occam , petrarcha , gerson , mirandula , these who in their death bed renued confidence in merits , saints , images , were the true church , and the other side the false church , all the churches of asia excommunicated by victor , as a bellarmine saith and binnius ; b pope stephen then and his councell denying communion to cyprian and fourescore of bishops must bee the separatists , and cyprians and his adherents the true church . . in this division we are united to the true apostolick , to the ancient church , to the true ancient church of rome , which opposed the apostate church of rome , but an immediate and personall adherence to , and union with the ancient church is not essentiall to a visible church . the separation from a true church , where the word of god orthodox is preached , and the sacraments duely administred , wee thinke unlawfull ; and the place for separation mainely i would have vindicated , cor. . . be ye not unequally yoaked together with unbeleevers , &c. robinson will have this strong for their separation , and saith . . it is true , he findeth fault with the beleeving corinthians , communicating with the unbeleeters in the idol feasts , but with all it must be considered , that the apostle up in this particular occasion delive●eth a generall doctrine , as from ●●●●●tion , cor. . to forbid commingling with fornicators , with 〈◊〉 persons , with idolaters , &c. and as he forbiddeth partaking with the wicked in their evills , yet then therein did he forbid all religious communion with them , since their very prayers , and other sacrifices are their evills , wherein whilst the godly doth communicate with them , what doe they else but acknowledge their common right and interest in the holy things with them ? answ. . it is good that robinson with the interpreters doth acknowledge , that paul forbiddeth communicating with unbeleevers a● idol feasts , as the place will command us to separate from the masse service , and therein let it be that hee inferreth a generall ; ergo , you are to separate from all the worship of the gentiles idols , and are not to be mixed with them in their service , which they give to their false gods : but this is not the generall which includeth separation from a church , in the service of a true god , the service being lawfull , and onely evill to some worshippers and by accident , because they eate to themselves damnation , but not damnation to others . . but he forbiddeth ( saith he ) all partaking with the wicked in their evills . i distinguish their evills in their evills , of their personall sins in not worshipping the true god in faith , sincerity & holy zeale , that i deny , and it is to be proved , christ himselfe and the apostles eated the passeover , and worshipped god with one whom christ had said had a devill , and should betray the sonne of man , and was an uncleane man , job . . , . . he forbiddeth all partaking with the wicked in their evills , that is , in the unlawfull and idol-worship , or in their superstitions and will-worship ; that is true , but nothing against us , or for your separation . if it be said , judas was neither convicted of his traitory to christ , nor was he knowne to the apostles by name to be the man , for some of them suspected themselves , and not judas to bee traytor : but you communicate with such as be professed and avowed traytors , and persons knowne to be scandalous , and so you acknowledge you have a common right in these holy things , with these persons . answ. . christ shewed to the disciples that they were an uncleane societie , and that one had a devill , and therefore though they knew not the man by name who had the devill , they knew the societie to have a devill , and to be uncleane , for that one man his cause , and so neither christ nor his disciples should have taken part with the evills , and the prayers and sacrifices of the wicked , for in so doing they acknowledge that they have commune right and interest in the holy things of god , with some who have a devill , and with an uncleane societie ; but you cannot condemne christ and the disciples communicating at that supper . . though the scandalous person bee not convicted of the scandall , that doth make the scandall more grievous and haynous to the scandalous person , in that he dare remaine in a sin , though he be convicted of his guiltinesse by the church , but it doth not make the persons scandall to be no scandall , and no uncleannesse at all ; for magis & minus non variant speciem , more or lesse of sinne doth not vary the nature of sin : now if paul will the corinthians to meet together to eate the lords body , as hee doth , cor. . and know that there bee amongst them carnall men , such as goe to law with their brethren before infidels , such as deny the resurrection , such as come drunke to the lords supper , though they bee not convicted of these sinnes by the church , yet if they be knowne to others , as paul doth declare them in that epistle , they must pollute the lords table before the church convict them , no lesse then after the church hath convicted them , though the pollution may bee more and greater after church-conviction , then before , yet paul willeth all the corimbians to acknowledge their communion with the sinnes of the non-convicted , and with their abominable and wicked sacrifices and prayers , which none can teach or beleeve of the apostle led by an infallible spirit , and therefore to communicate with them , is not to take part of their evills . . he saith at last , they who communicate at the same table with scandalous persons , what doe they else but acknowledge their commune right and interest in the holy things of god , with such scandalous persons ? and this is that which master coa●hman saith , this banquet of the lords supper , is the nearest fellowship that the saints have in this world ; what lying signes and dec●avable demoust●ations d●e these make who communicate they care not where , nor with whom , but thinke if they examine themselves , it is well enough , forgetting that it is an act of communion ? for if we sever the word sacrament from communion , we put out gods tearme and put in our owne . but i answer . . these who are baptized by one spirit unto one body , as all the visible churches are , cor. . . & professedly heare one word preached , doe thereby acknowledge they have one communion , right and interest in these holy things , to wit , in a communion with christ in remission of sinnes , and regeneration sealed in baptisme , and in one common saviour , and common faith preached in the gospell ; and is this communion unlawfull , and this fellowship a lying signe , because all baptized , and all hearing one gospell , and that in an avowed profession , are not knowne to be regenerated ? then should no infants be baptized , except they know all in the visible congregation baptized with them to bee regenerated also , for it is certaine that we have a communion most inteare and visible with all who are baptized . . it is no inconvenient to professe that we are all one visible body in the lords supper , cor. . . though wee be not one invisible , true , and mysticall , and redeemed body of christ , as it is said , cor. . . that all were baptized unto moses in the cloud , and in the se●t , v. . and that all did eate the same spirituall meat , v. . and that all did drinke the same spirituall drinke , the rocke christ , yet did they not sinne in this , and partake with the wicked in their ●ills , to wit in their wicked prayers and sacrifices , because it is said , v. . god was not pleased with many of them in the wildernesse , because , v. . they lusted after evill things , and many of them were idolaters , epicures , fornicators , tempters of christ , and mumurers , and there sell of them in one day twenty three thousand , v. . , , . and upon the same ground paul saith in the same place , v. , . that we many ( speaking of the corinthians ) are all 〈◊〉 ●read , and one body , and yet v. . many of these were parta●ers of the table and cup of the devills : and in the next chapter , many came drunke to the lords table , many did eate and drinke their owne damnation , and were stricken therefore of god with sicknes and de●th , v. , , . , , &c. and yet v. . paul charg●th them to come together to the lords supper , so farre is hee from a shadow of separation . the sacrament is a seale of their unitie of one body , and is a seale of their communion with christ , v. . but all who receive the signe , have not a communion with christ , nor are they all sealed , as one body mysticall of christ , onely they are in profession by eating one bread , declared to be one body , and doe become one body visible , and no question many make the sacrament to themselves a lying signe , and a blaneke ordinance . but first , this is not the sinne of such as doe communicate with those , who receive the blaneke seale , and make the sacrament to themselves a lying seale and damnation ; for they are commanded to exaamine themselves , and so to eate , but they are not commanded to examine their fellow-communicants , and they are to judge themselves , but not to judge their fellow-communicants . master coachman . how can any godly man consent , or say amen ( saith be ) to such an holy action , when it is joyntly done , by such , as for the most part , are the enemies of god ? answer . this maketh against the man , and the churches of new england , for they admit constantly to the hearing of the word , and so to the prayers of the church , those who are not received members of the visible church : how can any godly man say amen to the action of hearing the word , when it is joyntly done by gods enemies ? i prove the antecedent , the unity of faith hearing one word of faith preached , eph. . . maketh a visible body in profession , even as the joynt partaking of one bread , and one cup in the lords supper , maketh one body , by obsignation or sealing , cor. . , . . division of hearts in hearing , while some follow paul , some apollo , some cephas , maketh a schisme and division in christs body , cor. . ergo , in hearing one and the same word preached , there is a visible church-union , for all division of that kind presupposeth a union , and unity in a visible incorporation . . cor. . . when yee come together ( as one church body ) every one of you hath a psalme , hath a doctrine , vers . . he that prophecieth edifiesh the church , vers . . so yee may all prophecy one by one , that all may learne , and all may be comforted , , it is shame for a woman to speake in the church . therefore the saints meet together in one church to be edified , and comforted by doctrine and hearing of the word , doe all joyntly performe an action of hearing and learning of the word of god , and are in that one church , and one visible body , and called one church , verse . . that the church may receive edifying , verse . seeke that yee may excell ( by prophecying ) to the edifying of the church , vers . . if therefore the whole church come together , unto some place , &c. vers . . if there be not an interpreter , let him keepe silence in the church , verse , . and these who understand , are all to say , amen , to that which is prophecied , verse , . and yet that action of hearing and saying amen to the word preached , and to the prayers of the church , is done by many unregenerated , who are yet in the state of enmity with god , as our brethren grant , in that they doe admit all to be a church , and one church hearing the word preached . . but how can they say amen , ( saith he ) to a holy action done 〈◊〉 gods enemies ? i answer , . this objection is no lesse against paul and the word of god , then against us ; for many enemies to god , whose hearts are rockie , thorny and stony ground , doe heare the 〈◊〉 of god , and that by gods commandement , matth. . vers . . , , . & c. the deafe and the blind are commanded to heare , esai . . . esai . . , . and these whom god hath covered with a spirit of slumber , are to heare the words of the sealed booke , isai. . . , . even those who stumble at the word , and fall , and are broken , esai . . . , . pet. . v. . what godly man can say , amen , to such a holy action , as is performed by gods enemies ? . the godly say amen to actions of gods worship two wayes , . as it is the ordinance of god injoyned , and commanded , to the wicked and hypocrites , no lesse then to the godly , and we are to countenance their communicating , as we doe their hearing of the word , and to joyne with them both , in our reall and personall presence , and say amen with them , as the disciples gave their personall amen , and their countenance and presence to a holy action at the last supper , with one of their number , whom they knew to have a devill , and to be a traitor , and dipped their hand in the dish with this man , after christ had warned them , that there was such an one : but this is but to say amen to the externall worship , which is lawfull , according to the substance of the act . . the godly may be throught to say amen to the actions of worship performed by the enemies of god , by approving , allowing , and commending the manner of their performing the holy actions of gods worship , that is , they may be thought to approve the manner of their hearing and receiving the sacraments , that is , when they approve their performing of those holy actions without faith , and with wicked hearts and hands , and when they allow that they eats their owne damnation , thus no godly man can say amen to holy actions performed by gods enemies , nor is our externall communicating with them , a saying amen to the wicked manner of receiving the seales , this is most unreasonable , and cannot be proved by gods word . but robinson will prove that in this place , cor. . the lord forbiddeth communion not onely with evill workes of wicked men , but with their persons , and that he commandeth a separation , not onely reall , but personall . . because ( saith he ) the scripture hath reference to the yoaking of the unbeleevers in marriage , as the occasion of spirituall idolatrous mixture , which he reproveth ; now this joyning was not in an evill , or unlawfull thing , but with the wicked and unlawfull persons . answer , if the man had formed a syllogisme it should be a crooked proportion , if paul allude to the marriage with insides , then as we are not to joyne with pagans in lawfull marriage , so neither with scand ●●ous christians in lawfull worship . this connexion is gratis said , and we deny it ; but as we are not to marry with pagans , so not to sit in their idoll-temple , and to be present in their idoll-worship , else we were not to admit them , or their personall presence to the hearing of the word , contrary to your selves and to cor. . , . so if because we are not to marry with them , we are not to be personally present with them , at the receiving of the sacrament , neither at the hearing of the word , nor are we to be baptized , because sim●n magus , and many hypocrites are baptized . . locall separation from idoll-worship , in the idoll-temple , we teach as well as robinson , but what then ? he commandeth locall and personall separation from all the professors of the truth , in the lawfull worship of god , this we deny to follow . . the very termes saith robinson ) beleevers , unbeleevers , light , darknesse , christ , belial , doe import opposition not of things only , but of persons also , for things sake , so the faithfull are called a righteousnesse , b light , and the ungody c darknesse , and so not onely their workes , but their persons are called . answer . . we deny not opposition of persons , and separation locall from persons in idoll-worship , at an idoll-table , but hence is not concluded personall separation from wicked men in the lawfull worship of god. . this is for us , we are to separate from the persons ; because the worship is unlawfull , and idoll-worship , and therefore the contrary rather followeth , i● the worship were lawfull , we would not separate , for remove the cause and the effect shall cease . . the apostle ( saith he ) forbiddeth all unlawfull communion in the place , but there is an unlawfull communion of the faithfull with the wicked in things lawfull , as with the excommunicated , idolatrous , 〈◊〉 , or my other flagitious person in the sacraments , prayers , and other religious exercises , and the iewes were to separate themselves , 〈◊〉 from the manners of the he●then , but even from their ●ers●s , ●zr . . . . and . , . nehem. . . . and paul 〈◊〉 the corinthians , cor. . for having fellowship , not onely in ●● persons in●est , but with the incestuous person , whom therefore they 〈◊〉 ●urge out , and to put away from amongst themselves , verse . ● . . answer , it is true , there is an unlawfull communion of the faithfull that is overseers and guides of the church , to whom god hath committed the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , with excommunicated persons , in that they retaine one worthy to be excommunicated in the bosome of the church : but communion with the church in the holy things of god , is not hence concluded to be unlawfull , because the guides of the people communicate with that church where the excommunicated person is suffered , it is the sinne of the church-guides , that an excommunicated person is not cast out , and that he is suffered to communicate at the lords table , and to profane ● , in not discerning the lords body , but it is not the sinne of either guides or the people , to communicate at one table with the excommunicated person , or him that deserveth to be excommunicated ; for not casting out is one thing , and to communicate with the excommunicated in the true visible church is another thing ; the former is a sinne , not to use the power that christ hath given , but to communicate with the excommunicated person , is not a sinne , but a remembring of the lords death at christs commandement ; for one sinne maketh not another sinne to be lawfull , or to be no sinne ; to deliver one unto satan is to debarre one from the lords supper , and to repute him as a publican , and to judge him not worthy of the communion in the holy things of god , with the church ; but this is not to repute the church or guides or members as publicans and heathens , and as not worthy of church-communion with the man who is cast out : we see the church of corinth rebuked , for not excommunicating the incestuous man , but not forbidden to come and eate the lords supper with him , and these who came and did eate their owne condemnation● cor. . yea they are commanded to come to the publike meeting : ergo , it is one thing not to excommunicate the scandalous , a sinne , and another thing to communicate with the scandalous , which is not a sinne directly , nor forbidden at all . though paul have an allusion to the lords separating of the jewes from all other people , yet it followeth not that we are to separate from the wicked men and unrenewed , professing the truth that way ; first , because there was a typicall separation in marriage with canaanites ; if the jewes should marry with the canaanites , the marriage was null , and the moabites and ammonites ought not to enter in the temple . . the jewes are to separate from the manners of heathen , and from the persons of strange wives , yea and to put their wives of the canaanites after they had married them , away from them , in token of their repentanee , because the marriage was not onely unlawfull , but null , as is cleare , ezra . . , , . n●hem . . , . and this was a peculiar law binding the holy seed , but doth not inferre the like separation of christians , for cor. . , . it is not lawfull for a christian to put away a pagan wife , or for the beleeving wife to forsake the pagan husband , and therefore that jewish separation cannot inferre a separation from the persons and worship of unbeleevers ; and it is true that paul commandeth , to cast out the incestuous person , and to separate him from the church , but it followeth not , therefore the church was to separate from the publike worship because he was not cast out . . saith robinson , the apostle inj●yneth such a separation , at upon which a people is to be esteemed gods people , the temple of the living god , and may challenge his promise to be their god , and to dwell amongst them , and to walke there ; and as for the temple , the stone● and timber thereof , were separated from all the trees of the forest , and set together in comely order ; and he hath reference to the separating of the jewes from all other people , as appeareth , levit. , , . , . and this must be the condition of the israel of god , to the worlds end . answ. there is a separation from idol-worship here , such as is proper to the people in covenant with god , de jure , the visible church should separate from idols and the prophane world in their idol-worship , and sinfull conversation . ergo they should separate from the worship of god ; what sewing is here ? this is nothing for separation from the true church , or true worship , for the sinnes of worshippers . heare what interpreters say , as a non debet hoc simpliciter , de solo discessu , ●x● migratione , quae corpore fit , accipi , quasi mox migrandum sit ex●mnibus locis , in quibus vel superstitiones exercentur , vel stagiti●s●ct inhoneste vivitur , sic ex hoc mundo migrandum esset . b calvin , de sugienda idololatria hic concionatur . item , nihil non sibi lice● putabant in externis , promiscue se impiis super ft itionibus pollu●bant , siquidem insidelium couvivia frequent ando , communicabant prophanos ● impuros ritus cum ill is , atqui cum gravissime peccarent , sibi tamen ●idebantur innoxii , ergo hic invehitur paulus in externam idololatri●● . c bullinger , ego quam simplicissime intelligo de contagione ●orum , volupt●tum , sacrorum adeoque idolothytorum et rerum prophanarum omnium communione , putant quidam prot●nus migrandum ●x quibuslibet urbibus , si non omnes , in his , per omnia deo obediant . d meyer , objurgat ne majorem , quam dedeceret christianos , cum ethnicis haberent consuetudinem , vel idolothytis vescendo , vel ●●●jugium contrahendo , vel ludos theatrales spectando . e marlorat , h●tur ut caveant ab omni contagione tot sordium . ita theophylactus , ambrosius , et augustinus . paraphrastes , non in 〈◊〉 ( inquit ) sed in affectibus est fuga , quam suadet : so beza , and papists are not against this . estius , neque corinthii vocabantur h●bitare cum infidelibus , neque negotiari , neque cibum sumere . chap. . v. . signis vocat vos ad mensam &c. vetat arctam so●i●atem , et necessitudinem ex qua oriebatur periculosa quaedam necessit●s communicandi in moribus et religione . salmeron docet non li●ere christianis jungi cum idelolatris , non relinquendo patriam aut lxum , sed cultum illorum ; all which divines accord in this , that separation from idolatry and the idoll-tables of the gentiles is here commanded , and that because the church of god in the new testament , is no lesse a people in covenant with god , to whom the promises doe belong , and the presence of god working in them , then the people of the jewes were of old : but it followeth not hence that one part of the israel of god under the new testament should separate from the other . what weaknesse is this ? he alludeth to israels separation from the nations , which was personall ; therefore we are in person to separate from the true church for their personall sinnes , when the worship is right . but m robinson saith , papists , atheists , idolaters , anabaptists , and many more , doe worship jesus , from whose societies notwithstanding you professe separation . . the ismaelites and edomites doe worship the true god , though not after a true manner , and yet the israelites were a people separated from them , an edomite might not beare any publike office among the jewes to the third generation : yea israel was commanded to separate from israel , for a usurpation of the ministery , num. . and upon jeroboam his defection in the ministery , worship and new devised holy dayes , chron. . , , . king. . , , , , . answ. . papists , anabaptists , idolaters , are disavowed by us , and from them we separate , because though they professe the true god as edom did , yet they closely doe evert the fundamentals ; neither we , nor the reformed churches , in words or by consequence doe evert the fundamentals , and necessary points of salvation , and if the church of corinth was not to be separated from , nor thyatira , where the resurrection was denyed , and false doctrine maintained , you have no reason to parallell us with papists , atheists , anabaptists . . no covenant is made with the one true god , and the edomites and ismaelites , but the promises are made to us , and to our children , and to as many as the lord shall call , by the true gospell preached , act. . . robinson . the apostles ( saith he ) disjoyneth righteousnesse and unrighteousnesse , light and darknesse , as farre asunder , as beleevers and unbeleevers , as the temple of god and idols , in which former also the union betwixt christ and belial , is as monstreus as in the latter : also all unbeleevers are led by the devill , and cannot be the marter of the true church , and that some persons led by the devill and some not should be the marter of the true church is unknowne to scripture . answ. . in the text , cor. . righteousnesse and unrighteousnesse , light and darknesse are as farre asunder as the temple of god and idols , and as israel and edom. i answer in respect of the object materiall of false worship , they cannot morally be united , that is true , beleevers at corinth worshipping the true god in christ , cannot be united with such , as in idols temples are at one and the same idol worship : and as to marry christ and belial , light and darkenesse , is a monster , so it is no lesse morally monstrous , that the true worshippers of god in corinth , who give themselves out for the servants of god , should be joyned in any societie with the service of dumbe idols ; and thus farre israel and edom , a servant of god and an idolater , must separate and part companies , but in respect of the persons they may be united in one visible corporation and church ; else you may say by this argument , because faith in the eleven apostles and unbeleefe in judas , are as contrary as light and darkenesse , christ and belial , and as israels true worship and edoms false worship , and because the righteousnesse , light and faith of the apostolick church . act. . and the unrighteousnesse , darkenesse and unbeleefe of simon magus are contrary to others ( as they are as contrary as light and darknesse ) that therefore the eleven disciples and judas made not one visible church and the apostolick church , and simon magus and others in the gall of bitternesse with him , though baptized and joyned to the church , did not make up one visible church ; now since you acknowledge no visible church , but there be in it beside unbeleevers , though not seene , there is no visible church of your owne , wherein this monstruous combination of light and darkenesse is not . and so all your churches are false in their constitution , if there may not be a union of the persons of men led by god , and regenerated , and of hypocrites led by satan , and unregenerated ; and these meeting to one and the same true worship , as judas and the eleven did eate one and the same passeover . the scripture ( saith robinson ) denounceth the same judgement of god , ezech. . upon him that defileth his neighbours wife as to him who lifteth his eyes to the mountaines and the idols thereof , and murtherers are excluded out of the heavenly jerusalem as well as idolaters , and matth. . we are to esteeme every obstinate offender as a heathen and a publican , and paul chargeth the corinthians to avoyd f●rnicators , &c. cor. . as well as idolaters , so all carnall men are idolaters , making their belly their god : and the apostle to titus calleth prophane persons unbeleevers or infidels ; ergo , wee should walke toward the one , as toward the other , that is , separate from them both . answ. . it is true , god denounceth judgement against leud and unknowne hypocrites , as against worshippers of the gods of the zidonians , as your places prove , ezek. . rev. . but your logick is poore and blind , that you will separate from the true church , in which there bee secret hypocrites , and so from your owne churches , as you would separate from the church of the zidonians , who worship professedly baa● , and deny jehovah to be god , you make arguments without head or foote . . murtherers are excluded out of heaven , and haters of their brethren , who are murtherers from life eternall , joh. . . as idolaters , what then ? ergo , yee will exclude them out of the visible church , and separate from them . it is good that you come out with anabaptists to make these onely of your visible church , who shall reigne in glory with christ , and these onely , and all without your visible church to be firebrands of hell , as revel . . . . we are cor. . to avoyd fornicators , no lesse then idolaters , true . ergo , we are to separate from the church , where there be fornicators , seeing they make the church to bee false in its constitution , as we are to separate from a societie of heathen idolaters who worship a false god : doe you love such consequences ? men not forsaken of mother wit would say , i must separate from aaron , and the whole church of israel , in the act of adoring the golden calfe , which is indeed a separation from the false worship of the church , but not separate from the church ; but would you hence inferre , because god punisheth fornication no lesse then idolatry , that i am to separate from the church , and all their persons and societie in the very true worship of god , because some few persons there bee fornicators and carnall ? surely then paul did not his dutie , who commanded communion with the church of corinth , cor. . wherein there were carnall men , and deniers of the resurrection , and such as for gaine went to the law , with their brethren , and that before infidels ; yea because all sinne in the demerit thereof ( except you devise venials ) exclude men out of the new hierusalem , we must separate from all churches on earth , for there be none so cleane , but there bee some sinne in it , which excludeth out of the new hierusalem , as idolatry doth , though there bee degrees of sinne . but some ignorant ones say the place , cor. . . is to be expounded of eating at the communion table , or if it bee of familiar eating and drinking , of civill conversing , then much more are wee not to communicate with them at the lords table . but not to eate with such a one , is not to keepe intire fellowship with him , as the phrase noteth , psal. . . he that eat of my bread hath lift up his b●ele against me . joh. . . psal. . so doth chrysostome , the●phylact us , oecumenius expound this place , bullinger , contub●●nium & interiorem convictum prohibet ; so calvin , peter martyr , b●za , piscator , pareus ; so erasmus and aquinas , haymo , gagneius . nor is all eating whatsoever with heathen persons forbidden , paul practised the contrary , act. . . . . act. . . . act. . , . act. . , , . act. . , . cor. . . . the wife is not to separate , a toro & mensa , from the excommunicated husband , nor the sonne from the excommunicated father , no positive law can cancell the law of nature , nor can hence bee concluded that it is unlawfull to keepe any church communion with these , or to separate from the communion , though they be at the table . . because such eate damnation to themselves , not to others . . because no private person can separate , for the churches sinne , if the man be not convicted ; and lastly , here is to bee observed , that if the church be not in its right constitution , that is , as mr. robinson teacheth us , if it be not a people in whose hearts the lord ●●th written his covenant , wee are to separate from it ; so as if one be found to be a non-converted , though not scandalous , he must be excommunicated for non-conversion , never breaking out in scandalls , a thing contrary to the word of god , as i have proved already . mr. robinson objecteth , act. . . save your selfe from this untoward generation . ans. that is , from the malicious jewes who deny christ to be the messiah . but what is this to separate from the true church , professing christ ? but robinson saith , you deny visibly god , and his sonne christ. answ. . such as are thus scandalous are to be cast out . . if the church neglect to cast them out , we are not to cast out and excommunicate the church by separating from them , no more then the godly forsooke the church of the jewes , where there were many scandalous persons . . there be great oddes betwixt a froward generation professedly denying christ to bee come in the flesh , as the jewes , act. . ( and from such a church wee are to separate totally ; ) and betwixt a church where there bee many wicked persons , who in their life and conversation deny christ , and yet doe beleeve soundly or orthodoxly the fundamentall points of salvation , and hold in profession the orthodox faith : for though wee are to separate from the bad conversation of such a generation , yet are we not to separate from the church-worship , and church-societie of such a generation : therefore paul might well break off communion with the church of the jewes , whereof he was once a member , because after christs death , ascension , and the gospell was preached , it now became a fundamentall point of salvation , simply necessary to bee beleeved by all ( that the sonne of mary was the messiah ) which because the jewes maliciously denyed , they left off to be a church ; but a scandalous life in many of the professors , is not for that any ground to separate from the visible church , professing such fundamentall points . robinson saith from job . . . . . where the church is said to be given to christ , and chosen out of the world , it is cleare that the true visible church is gathered , by separation from the world . but i answer , to be given to christ and chosen out of the world is meant onely of the elect and invisible church . but arminians , pelagians , and old anabaptists expound it of the visible church , that they may make judas , whom they alledge was chosen out of the world , no lesse then peter , an example of their universall election , and of the small apostasie , of the truly elected and regenerated . and you have to side with you in this the apostate a peter bertius , b the arminians at hage , c arminius himselfe , the socinians , as d socinus , e theoph. 〈◊〉 ; and you may see your selves refuted by amesius f refuting the arminians in the conference at hage : and this you expressely say with arminians and socinians . . because , ( as you say ) judas was one of them , whom the father had given to christ out of the world , whom alone of all them so given to him , he hath losed ; ergo , christ speaketh of a visible donation . answ. the antecedent is false , joh. . . all that the father had given me , commeth unto me , and him that commeth unto me i will in no wayes cast out , v. . and this is the fathers will which ●●th sent me , that of all which he hath given me , i should lose nothing , but should raise it up at the last day . but judas was cast out and losed , and is not raised up at the last day , as one which commeth , that is , beleeveth in christ. . this is the very exception of the arminians , and amesius answereth , quae scriptura manifesto est judicio iudam non it a christo datum & commendatum fuisse a patre ut ●aeteros . christ ( saith robinson ) speaketh of such persons as the world hated , because they were not of the world , job . . . but the wicked world 〈◊〉 not hate men , as they are elected before god , and invisibly or inwardly separated , ●ut as they are outwardly separated , whether they bee inwardly so or not . answ. . invisible election and the contrary spirit that the children of god are led by , which is most unlike to the spirit that leadeth the world , is the true ground and cause why the world doth hate them ; and this choosing out of the world , is seene and made visible by the fruits of the spirit to the wicked world , but the consequence is nothing , he speaketh of election that is visible or made visible , yet not as visible for often paul t●●rmeth the visible churches , saints , temples , of the holy spirit , the sonnes and daughters of the living god , and when he tearmeth them such , he speaketh to , and of a visible church , yet not as visible , because to be the temple of the holy spirit , and a sonne and daughter of the living god , is a thing formally , and properly invisible : for faith and the spirit of adoptien are not things visible or obvious to the senses , but separatis●s are often deceived with this , hee speaketh to the visible saints , ergo , he speaketh to them as visible saints , this is the vaine collection of ignorant anabaptists ; paul writeth to the visible church , but every priviledge that hee doth ascribe to them doth not agree to them , as they are visible . he saith to the visible church of colossians , ch . . v. . your life is hid with christ in god , an unvisible life cannot agree to the colossians , as they are a visible church , so separation from the world made manifest and visible is the cause why the world hateth the children of god , yet that separation is formally invisible and not seene to the eye of men , for it is an action of god to choose men out of the world , and no eye mortall can see his actions , as they be such . and therefore except robinson prove that this choosing out of the world is common to elect and reprobate , and to be seene in peter and iudas , he bringeth nothing against us to prove his point , but hee plainly contradicteth his owne tenents ; for in his first reason , he will have the true church separated from the world , as iudas the traytor was separated from the world , which we grant that is separation in show , and in profession , and so maketh his visible church to be made up of traytors and hypocrites , who cannot bee the spouse of christ , nor a part of christ his mysticall body , and his redeemed flocke . now hee still harpeth on this , that the visible church rightly constitute is the spouse of christ , the redeemed of god , the mysticall body of christ , and so hee contradicteth himselfe , and saith with us that there bee no visible separation from the world , essentiall to such a church as they dreame of , to wit , of called saints , temples of the holy spirit , &c. and therefore never one of that side understood to this day the nature of a true visible church , though they talke and write much of it ; for the truth is , the essence and definition of a church agreeeth not equally to a true church and a visible church , yea a visible church as it is visible is not formally a true church , but the redeemed church onely is the true church . lastly , he speaketh ( saith he ) of such a choosing out of the world as he doth of sending unto the world , v. . which sending as it was visible and externall , so was the selection and separation spoken of . answ. the choosing out of the world is not opposed to sending unto the world , for sending unto the world is an apostolick sending common to judas with the rest , whereby they were sent to preach the gospell to the world , of chosen and unchosen , of elect and reprobate , but to bee chosen out of the world , and given to christ , is proper to the elect onely , who are chosen out of the loosed and reprobate world . . it is also false that the sending of the apostles is altogether visible , for the gifting of them with the holy spirit is a great part of sending the apostles , as our brethren say , a gifted man is a sent prophet ; but the lord his gifting of the apostle is not visible . you cannot ( saith robinson ) be partaker of the lords table and of devills . ergo , we must separate from the ungodly . answ. the table of idols is that table of devils and of false worship kindly in respect of the object that wee must separate from , but a scandalous person at the lords supper partaketh of the table of devils by accident , in respect the person being out of christ eateth damnation to himselfe , but it is not per se and kindly , the table of devils to others , and therefore i must not separate from it ; the supper was to judas the devils table , because satan entered in him with a sup , to cause him to betray the lord ; and christ told before , one of them twelve had a devill , and so to one of the twelve the supper was the devils table , yet could not the disciples separate therefrom . further he objecteth , paul condemned the church of corinth as kn●●ed lumpe , and as contrary to the right constitution , finding so many aberrations and defections from that state , wherein they were gathered unto a church ; who dare open so prophane a mouth as to affirme , that this faithfull labourer would plant the lords v●neyard with such impes , or gather unto the church flagitious persons , drunkards , i●●es●tous persons , or such as denied the resurrection ? answ. . paul never insinuateth in one letter , that these wicked persons , marred the constitution and matter of the visible church , but onely that they marred the constitution of the invisible church , that being bought with a price , they should give their bodies to harlotry , and that in denying the resurrection they denyed the scriptures , and turned epicures , who said , let us ●a●e and drinke , for to morrow we shall die ; but there is nothing to insinuate separation from the church , as false in the constitution . . paul doth not plant wicked men as impes in the lords vineyard , they plant themselves in the roome of true members of the church invisible , and as the redeemed of god , when they are not so indeed , and this sort of planting is given improperly to the pastors . but if you understand by planting , the casting out of the draw-net of the word of the kingdome preached , and the inviting of as many to come in as the pastors doe finde , matth. . . . even good and bad ; this way it is the mouth of truth , and not a prophane mouth , that pastors invite professors to come in , and bee members of the visible church , though their act of inviting have no kindly influence in the hypocrisie of their profession who are invited . to professe the truth is good and laudable , and to deny it before men , damnable , and to invite men to this profession of the truth , is good and laudable also . and wisedome sendeth out her maidens , and by them inviteth simple ones and fooles to professe the truth , and to come to the visible church , prov. . . prov. . , . but pastors doe not plant drunkards , and flagitious persons in the visible church , but the apostolike church calling to her communion simon magus , act. . but doth not plant them as hypocrites , but as externall professors . mr. coachman saith , it is no wrong to leave the carnal multitude , as it was no hurt to jehosaphat , when elisha in his presence protested against joram , as one , betwixt whom and god hee would not intercede . answ. put case jehosaphat be a church visible worshipping god aright , you wrong his societie , if you leave the shepheards tents , where christ feedeth amongst the lilies till the day breake , because there bee foxes in these tents and wicked persons . is it not ( saith he ) sweeter to converse with the godly , then with the ungodly ? is not the presence of faithfull christians sweeter , when one commeth to powre out his prayers , and offer his oblation , then the society of carnall men ? answ. this will prove it is lawfull to separate from pharisees preaching the truth in moses his chaire , the contrary whereof you were , sect. . pag. . because it is sweeter to heare the word with the godly , then with the ungodly . we have not found ( saith coachman ) the honorable name of christians or godly men given to liars , swearers , &c. no comfort , no priviledges belong to them in that state , it belongeth not unto them , but unto us to build the house of the lord , ezra . . answer . yea , god bestoweth the priviledges of externall calling unto good and bad , even to those who preferre their lusts to christ , matth. . . luk. . , , . . the place of ezra is corrupted , for those were the open adversaries of judah and benjamin , v. . and were not the church at all . . onely pastors are publicke and authoritative builders of the church , not private christians . the wicked ( saith he ) have the things of this life above the godly , ergo they should not be invested in the highest prerogatives above the godly : also it is a presumption to say to any carnall man , this is the body of the lord , that was given for thee . answer . it is the cry of a stone to reason thus , this argument is as much against gods providence as against us , for god sendeth to capernaum and bethsaida , the priviledge of christs presence , in preaching the gospel , and working miracles , yet they are an unworthy people . . pastors of the separation give the body of christ to lurking hypocrites , are they not herein presumptuous also ? they object , to live in the want of any of gods ordinances is not lawfull , as matth. . . chron. . . cant. . . . so saith robinson . a man is not onely bound in his place to admonish his neighbour , but also to see his place be such , as be may admonish his brother ; a calling absolutely tying a man to the breach of any of gods commandements , is unlawfull and to be forsaken . answ. seeing affirmative precepts tye not ad semper , and christian prudence is to direct us here ; there be some in church communion whom we cannot without palpable inconveniences rebuke : the ministers of new-england in their answer to the n● question , say , such as are not free ( servants or sonnes ) may stay in paroch assemblies in old england , so as they partake of no corruptions , and live not in the want of any ordinances ( they meane wanting the lords supper ) through their default ; now to separate from the lords supper , because of the wickednesse of the fellow-worshippers is their default , which is against robinson , yet we see not how masters or fathers should separate from christs true church more then servants or sonnes . . not to admonish , in some cases , is not a breach of a commandement , nor living besides scandalous persons in a church , or for any to abstaine from the seales because such be in the church , except we would goe out of the world , for robinson presseth alwayes personall separation , no lesse then church separation . robinson . there is the same proportion of one member sinning , of a few , of many , of a whole church : now if one brother sinne and will not be reclaimed , he is no longer to be reputed a brother , but a heathen : ergo , so are we to deale with a church though there be a different order , the multitude of sinners doe no wayes extenuate the sinne . answ. . then may a whole church by this reason be excommunicated , which our brethren deny . . there is the same proportion to be kept when one sinneth , and when a whole church sinneth , but by observing due order ; one may admonish a private brother , but not any one , or many private persons , may admonish and proceed after our saviours order , against a whole church in a church way , in respect they are still inferiour to a whole church : sister churches and synods are to keepe this order with one particular church , that is incorrigible , for private persons have relation of brotherhood to private persons , and the relation is private , and churches have church relation to churches , and the relation is publike ; nor are whole churches to be excommunicated , while god first remove the candlesticke , as we see in rome , and the seven churches in asia . . it is considerable , . if the whole church be obstinate and incorrigible , or some few , or the most part . . if the sinnes be against the worship of god , as idolatry , or sinnes of a wicked conversation , the worship of god remaining pure , and sound , at least in professed fundamentals . . if the idolatry be essentiall idolatry , as the adoring of the worke of mens hands , or onely idolatry by participation , as popish ceremonies , the surplice , and crosse , being as meanes of worship , but not adored , and so being idols by participation ; as a amesius and b m. ball doe well distinguish , and before them , so doth the learned c reynold , and d bilson make use of the distinction . . all lenity must be used against a church , if not more lenity , then we use in proceeding against single persons . . divers degrees of separation are to be considered : hence these considerations , . there is a separation negative , or a non-union , and a separation positive . though a church of schismaticks retaining the sound faith , yet separating from other , be deserted by any , it is a negative separation from ● true church , and laudable : as the faithfull , in augustins time , did well in separating from the donatists , for with them they were never one , in that faction , though they separated not from the true faith holden by donatists , but kept a positive union with them ; so doe all the faithfull well to separate from the churches of the separatists . . if the whole and most part of the church turne idolatrous , and worship idols , ( which is essentiall idolatry ) we are to separate from that church : the levites and the two tribes did well , as e mr. ball saith , to make a separation from jero●oams calves ; and the godly laudably , king. . . did not separate from the israel , and church of god , because the altar of damascus was set up , and because of the high places . things dedicated unto idols , as lutheran images , may be called , and are called cor. . . idolatry , yet are they idolatry by participation , and so the cup of devils , cor. . paul doth not command separation from the church of corinth , and the table of the lord there . . consideration . there is a separation from the church in the most part , or from the church in the least and best part . in achabs time israel , and the church thereof , for the most part , worshipped baal ; elias , micaja● , obadiah , and other godly separated from the church of israel in the most part : jeremiah wished to have a cottage in the wildernesse ( no doubt a godly wish ) that he might separate from the church all then for the most part corrupted , yet remained they a part of the visible church and a part in the visible church , and therefore did he not separate from the church according to the least and best part thereof ; the godly in england who refused the popish ceremonies , and antichristian bishops , did well not to separate from the visible church in england , and yet they separated from the mainest and worst part , which cannot be denied to be a ministeriall church . . considerat . if a church be incorrigible in a wicked conversation , and yet retaine the true faith of christ , it is presumed god hath there some to be saved , and that where christs ordinances be , there also where christs ordinances be , there also christs church presence is ; and therefore i doubt much if the church should be separated from , for the case is not here as with one simple person , for it is cleare , all are not involved in that incorrigible obstinacy , & that is yet a true visible communion , in which we are to remaine , for there is some union with the head christ , where the faith is kept sound , and that visibly ; though a private brother remaining sound in the faith , yet being scandalous and obstinately flagitious be to be cast off , as an heathen , yet are we not to deale so with an orthodox church , where most part are scandalous . . considerat . i see not , but we may separate from the lords supper , where bread is adored , and from baptisme where the signe of the crosse is added to christs ordinances , and yet are we not separated from the church , for we professedly heare the word , and visibly allow truth of the doctrine maintained by that church , which doe pollute the sacraments , and we are ready to seale it with our bloud , and it is an act of visible profession of a church , to suffer for the doctrine mentioned by that church . . we may well hold that f ambrose saith well , that a church wanting the foundation of the apostles , is to be forsaken . . there is a forced separation through tyranny from personall communion , and a voluntary separation ; david was forced to leave israel , and was cast out of the inheritance of the lord ; the former is not our sinne , and our separation from rome hath something of the former , the latter would be wisely considered . . there may be causes of non-union with a church , which are not sufficient causes of separation : paul would not separate from the church of the jewes , though they rejected christ , till they openly blasphemed , act. . , , . act. . . and when they opposed themselves and blasphemed , paul shooke his ●ayment and said unto them , your blood be upon your owne heads , i am cleane , from henceforth i will goe to the gentiles . there is a lawfull separation , and yet before the jewes came to this , there was no just cause , why any should have joyned to the church of the jewes , who denyed the messiah , and persecuted his servants , act. . act. . seeing there was a cleaner church , to which converts might joyne themselves , act. . , . . there is no just cause to leave a lesse cleane church ( if it be a true church ) and to goe to a purer and cleaner , though one who is a member of no church , have liberty of election , to joyne to that church , which he conceiveth to be purest and cleanest . . when the greatest part of a church maketh defection from the truth , the lesser part remaining sound , the greatest part is the church of separatists , though the maniest and greatest part in the actuall exercise of discipline be the church ; yet in the case of right discipline , the best though sewest , is the church ; for truth is like life , that retireth from the maniest members unto the heart , and there remaineth in its fountaine , in case of danger . chap. . sect . . the way of the churches of christ in new england . in this section the reverend author disputeth against the baptizing of infants of unbeleeving , or excommunicated neareit parents , of which i have spoken in my former treatise : onely here i vindicate , our doctrine . and first the authour is pressed with this , the excommunicated persons want indeed the free passage of life , and vertue of the spirit of jesus , till they be tuitched with repentance , yet they are not wholly cut off from the society of the faithfull , because the seed of faith remaineth in them , and that knitteth them in a bond of conjunction with christ. the authour answereth , it is true , such excommunicates , as are truely faithfull , remaine in covenant with god , because the seed of faith remaineth in them , yet to the society of the faithfull joyned in a particular visible church , they are not knit , but wholly cut off from their communion , for it is not the seed of faith , nor faith it selfe , that knitteth a man to this , or that particular church , but a holy profession of the faith , which when a man hath violated by a grievous sinne , and is delivered to satan , he is now , not as a dead palsie-member , cut off from the body , though bee may remaine a member of the invisible church of the first borne , yet he hath neither part , nor portion , nor fellowship in the particular visible church of christ jesus , but is as an heathen and a publican : now sacraments are not given to the invisible church , nor the members thereof , as such , but to the visible particular churches of jesus christ , and therefore we dare no more baptize his childe , than the childe of an heathen . i answer , first , if faith remaine in some excommunicated person , ( as you grant ) it must be seene in a profession , for though for some particular scandall , the man be excommunicated , yet is he not cut off ( as we now suppone ) for universall apostasie from the truth to gentilisine , or judaisme , for then he should be cursed with the great excommunication , cor. . v. . and so though he be to the church as a heathen , in that act , yet is he not to the visible church an heathen , but a brother , and to be admonished as a brother , thess. . . and the church is to use excommunication as a medicine , with intention to save his spirit in the day of the lord , cor. . , . tim. . . an excommunicated apostate is not so : now if hee retaine faith to the churches decerning , he retaineth the profession of faith , and in so farre a visible membership , with the church in the covenant ; ergo , for that professed faith , by our brethrens grant , his childe should be baptized , and so is not wholly cut off , but is as a dead palsie member of the church , and so as a member , though in a deliquie , and lethargie . . you say to the faithfull of a particular church , the excommunicate is wholly cut off : what doe you meane ? if his sinnes be bound in heaven , ( as they are , if he justly be excommunicated ) is he not also cut off , to all the visible churches on earth● are not all the churches to repute him as a publican and a heathen ? i beleeve they are , but you deny in this all visible communion of chur●hes . . you say , it is not the seede of faith that knitteth a man to a particular visible church , but an holy profession . but in the excommunicate person , ( if the seede of faith remaine as you grant ) this faith must be seene , by you , in a holy profession , else to you , he hath no seed of faith ; and if his profession of faith remaine intire , though it bee violated in the particular obstinate , remaining in one scandall , for the which he is excommunicated , you have no reason to say , that to the particular church , hee is wholly cut off , since his profession remaineth . . you say , it is not the seed of faith , nor faith it selfe that knitteth a man to this or that particular visible church , but a holy profession of faith . then i say , one may be knit to a particular visible church , and a true member thereof , though he want both the seed of faith , and faith it selfe . i prove the connexion . a man is a perfect and true member of a church , though he want that which doth not knit him to the church , this is undenyable : but without the seed of faith or faith it selfe , ( as you say ) hee is knit to the true church : ergo. but this is contrary to your doctrine , who require , chap. . sect . . that none must bee admitted members of a visible church , but those who are christ his body , the habitation of god by the spirit , the temples of the holy ghost , &c. and that no● onely by external● profession , but in some measure of sincerity and truth . now consider my reverend brethren , if there bee a measure of sincerity and truth , where there is neither the seed of faith , nor faith it selfe : and surely by this you cast downe and marre the constitution of your visible church , when you exclude from the members thereof , the seed of faith , and faith it selfe ; and you come to our hand , and teach , that the seed of faith , and faith it selfe , is accidentall to a visible church as visible , which wee also teach : and so there is no measure of truth and sincerity required to the essentiall constitution of a visible church . . but i would gladly learne how you contra-distinguish these two , faith , and a holy profession of faith ? doe you imagin that there can be a holy profession knitting a man to the visible church , where there be neither the seed of faith , nor faith it selfe ? it is arminian holinesse , which is destitute of faith , but if you meane by a holy profession , a profession conceived to be holy , though it be not so indeed , then you doe yet badly contradivide a holy profession from faith , for before any can be knit as a member to the visible church , you are to conceive him to be a saint , a beleever , and so to have both the seed of faith , and faith it selfe , though indeed he have neither of the two , and so faith is as wel that which knitteth a man as a member to the visible church , as holinesse . . if he remaine a member of the universall church of the first borne , is hee therefore so as a heathen , and so that you dare no more receive him to the supper , nor his seed to baptisme , nor you dare receive a heathen , and his seed to the seales of the covenant ? is a heathen a member of the invisible church of the first borne ? but the excommunicated you presume is such a one . . what warrant have you for this doctrine , that the sacraments are not given to the invisible church , as it is such , but to the visible ? certainely , god ordaineth the sacraments to the beleevers as beleevers , and because they are within the covenant , and their interest in the covenant , is the onely true right of interest to the seales of the covenant , profession doth but declare who beleeve and who beleeve not , and consequently , who have right to the seales of the covenant , and who not , but profession doth not make right , but declareth who have right . the author subjoyneth , christ giveth no due right unto baptisme to the child , but by the fathers right unto the covenant and communion of the church , so by taking away right unto the covenant and communion of the church from the father , he taketh away the childrens right also , the personall sinne of the parent in this case is not a meere private personall sinne , but the sinne of a publike person of his family : for as his profession of his faith at his receiving unto the church , was as the profession of a publike person receiving him and his children , who could make no profession but by his mouth unto the church , so his violation of his profession by a scandalous cri●● , was as a publike violation thereof for himself and his seed , who stand or fall before the church in his name and his person . answ. . it is true , christ giveth right to baptisme to the child , by the fathers right . i distinguish that , by the nearest father onely i deny , by the right of fathers in generall , true ; but then it will follow , that no infant is to be debarred from baptisme for the sinnes of his nearest parents , for if these who are descended of abraham and david , many generations upward from them , were within the covenant , and so had right to circumcision , for the covenant made with david and abraham , and the nearest fathers sinne is not the cause of taking away the right to the covenant from the child , and right to the church communion . . i much doubt if the child have right to the seales of the covenant , for the faith of the father , and so i deny that hee loseth right to the seales of the covenant for the fathers scandalous crime , which is a violation of the covenant . i doe reverence grave and learned divines , who speake so ; a oecolampadius , and b zuinglius say that insants are sanctified by their parents faith ; but i conceive they take the word faith objectively , for the doctrine of faith profeffed by the father , and not subjectively . but i think that great divine c beza saith well , that no man is saved by another mans faith , nor can the parents faith be imputed to the children , which is no lesse absurd , nor to say that one man liveth by the soule and life of another man , and that he is wise by the wisedome of another man : how then are infants within the covenant for their parents ? i answer , for the faith of their fathers , that is , for the covenant of their fathers they have right to baptisme , for that i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , galat. . . comprehendeth all the beleeving gentiles . and for this cause the children of papists and excommunicate protestants which are borne within our visible church are baptized , if their forefathers have beene found in the faith ; and i thinke the reason is given by d doctor morton , who saith , the children of all papists , anabaptists , or other hereticks , are to be distinguished from the children of turkes and pagans , because the parents of papists and anabaptists have once beene dedicated to christ in baptisme , and the child ( saith he ) hath onely interest in that part of the covenant , which is sound and catholike , while as the parents themselves stand guiltie of heresie , which by their owne proper and actuall consent , they have added unto the church . and i thinke the scripture saith here with us , that the nearest parents be not the onely conveyers and propagators of federall holinesse to the posteritie , psal. . . they were mingled with the heathen and learned their workes , . and they served their idols , &c. . neverthelesse he regarded their affliction , . and he remembred , for them , his covenant . what covenant ? his covenant made with abraham , and yet their nearest fathers sinned , v. . we have sinned and our fathers , v. . our fathers understood not thy wonders in egypt , they remembred not the multitude of thy mercies , but provoked him at the sea , even at the red sea , v. . neverthelesse be saved them for his names sake . his name was the glory of the covenant made with abraham , by which his name and truth , by promise was ingaged , esa. . . but they rebelled and vexed his holy spirit , therefore hee was turned to bee their enemy , and hee fought against them , v. . then he remembred the dayes of old , moses and his people , saying , where is he that led them , and brought them out of the red sea ? so also esay . , , . and most evidently , ezek. . . they rebelled against me , &c. but i wrought for my names sake , that it should not be polluted before the heathen , among whom they were , in whose sight i made my selfe knowne unto them , in bringing them forth out of the land of egypt . now this name is to be expounded his covenant , jerem. . . which he made with them , when hee brought them out of the land of egypt , which covenant is extended unto the christian church , heb. . . , . now if god gave right unto the sonnes of the jewes , i meane federall right , to temporall deliverance , and the meanes of grace , for the covenant made with abraham , though their nearest parents rebelled against the lord , that same covenant in all the priviledges thereof indureth yet , yea and is made to all the gentiles , ●al . . . heb. . , , . for it is the covenant nationall made with the whole race , not with the sonnes upon the condition of the nearest parents saith , as is cleare after christs ascension unto heaven , act. . . for the promise is to you and to your children , and to all that are afarre off , even to as many as the lord our god shall call . now it is cleare that their fathers killed the prophets , matth. . , , , , , . they were a wicked generation under blood , v. . . it is cleare that these externally , and in a federall and church profession have right ecclesiastick to the covenant , to whom the externall calling of the preached gospell doth belong , while he saith the promise ( of the covenant ) is made to as many as the lord our god shall call , so the called nation , though the nearest parents have killed the prophets , and rejected the calling of god , matth. . . . . is the nation which have externall and church-right to the promises and covenant , and rom. . . as concerning the gospell they are enemies for your sake , but as touching the election they are beloved for the fathers sake : now their nearest fathers maliciously opposed the gospell , therefore it must be for the election of the holy nation , in which respect , the nation of the jewes , v. . was a holy seed , and a holy root , and the children were also the holy branches , holy with the holinesse of the covenant ; and joshua had no reason to circumcise the people at gilgal , for the holinesse of their nearest parents , whose earcasses fell in the wildernesse , yet he circumcised them , to take away the reproach of his people ; now this reproach was uncircumcision in the flesh , the reproach of the philistims , ( so goliah is called an uncircumcised philistim ) and of all the nations without the covenant of god : yea by this there were no reason to circumcise the sonnes of achab and jezabel , whose nearest parents were slaves to idolatry , and who were bloody persecutors of the prophets ; nor was there reason to circumcise jeroboams sonne , in whom there was some good , for both father and mother were wicked apostates : and very often , by this doctrine , should the people of the jewes leave off to be the visible church , and so the promise of the covenant should faile in the line from abraham to david , and from david to christ ; even so oft as the nearest parents did evill in the sight of the lord ; and many times should god have cast off his people whom be foreknew ; contrary to that which paul saith , rom. . , , . to these i adde , if the infants of the christian church have onely right to baptisme , through the faith of the nearest parents onely , then is this to be conceived either to bee true and saving faith , in the nearest parents , or onely faith in profession : if you say the former , then . the seed of the excommunicated parents , in whom is faith , or the seed thereof is to be baptized , the contrary , of which you affirme . . then the seed and infants of no parents , but of such only as are members of the invisible church of the first borne , are to be baptized , the contrary whereof you teach , while you say , the sacraments are not given to the invisible church , and the members thereof , but to the visible particular churches . . the infants of the unbeleeving parents , though members of the visible church , have no right to baptisme , and the covenant , though they be the elect of god , and borne within the visible church , which is admirable to us , now it is knowne that hypocrites and unbeleeving parents have often such a luster of a greene and fairelike profession , as that they goe for visible members of the church , so as their children are by christs warrant and right baptized . i come to the other point , if the faith of nearest parents , onely true in profession and show before men , give right to their infants to bee sealed with the seales of the covenant : then . apparent and bypocriticall faith conferreth true right to the seales to infants , and there is not required ( as the author saith chap. . sect. . ) that the members of the visible church be the called of god , the sonnes and daughters of the lord god almighty , not onely in externall profession , but also in some measure of sinceritie and truth . . god hath warranted his church to put his seale upon a falsehood , and to conferre the seales upon infants , for the externall profession of faith , where there is no faith at all , this your writers thinke inconvenient and absurd . also it is objected by us , that excommunicates children are in no better case by this doctrine , then the children of turkes and infidels . the author answereth . we willingly ( saith he ) put a difference ; excommunicates are nearer to helpes , and meanes of salvation and conversion , then turkes , cor. . . because excommunication it selfe is a meane that the spirit may be saved : and turkes are nearer then apostates , who turne enemies to the truth , for better never have knowne the way of truth , then to turne backe . but in this they agree , they are all of them as heathen , matth. . and therefore neither parents nor children have right to the seales . answ. this is not an answer , for the infants of excommunicates , though they be the seed of ancestors , as grandfathers , who were true beleevers , yet as infants and dying in infancy , are no lesse without the covenant , and excluded from the seales thereof , by you then the infants of turkes . . the infants of nearest parents in the jewish church , though wicked , were not excluded from circumcision , nor were they in the case of the infants of the prophane heathen ; and the same covenant made to the jewes and their seed , is made to us , and to our seed , gal. . . heb. . . . rom. . . . act. . , . we also affirme , that the lord extendeth the mercy of the covenant to a thousand generations , and therefore the line of the covenant-mercy is not broken off , for the unbeleefe of the nearest parents . our author answereth . is the extension of gods mercy to a thousand generations be a sufficient ground to extend baptisme to the children of excommunicates in the right of their ancestors , it may suffice as well to the children of turkes and insidels , and apostates , for it is not above sixty and six generations from noah to christ , as is plaine in the genealogie , luk. . . and there have not passed as many more generations from christs time to the turkes , and infidels of the present age . and all will not amount ( say they in their answers ) to the summe of two hundred generations . the true meaning is , that god out of his abundant and rich mercy may and doth extend thoughts of redeeming and converting mercy and grace unto thousand generations , but he never allowes his church any warrant to receive unto their covenant and communion the children of godly parents , who lived a thousand yeares agoe , much lesse a thousand generations ; nay rather the text is plaine , cor. . . that the holinesse of the children depends upon the next immediat parents , to wit , upon such faith as denominateth them beleevers in opposition to pagans and infidels , and that holinesse to the children is called federall , which receiveth them unto the covenant and seales thereof . answ. . we stand not on the number of a thousand precisely , nor doth the holy ghost intend that , for as it is usuall in scripture , a a definite number is put for an indefinite : wrath followeth the ammonite and moabite to the tenth generation , deut. . , . and the edomite and egyptian though cursed , entereth into the congregation of the lord , the third generation , v. . . the lord here walketh in a latitude , yet so as the mercy of the covenant is extended to more generations , a thousand for foure , beyond the anger of god to the generation of the wicked ; nor doth the authors consequence stand good , that then wee had right and warrant to baptize the children of turkes , pagans and indians , ( as for one single apostate , i account him as one single excommunicate christian in this point ) because the lords comparison of proportion holdeth in generations of the same kind , and is restricted to the generations within the visible church , sheweth mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keepe my commandements , which must be extended to professed love of a nation that is federally holy . now turkes and indians are neither lovers of god , nor in profession , through federall holinesse such ; and it is most pregnant against such as confine and imprison the mercy of the covenant towards poore infants , to their next immediate parents , and by the authors interpretation , the thousand generations to which god extendeth mercy , is confined to one , because if the wicked two , the father and mother bee violaters of the covenant , though nine hundreth foregoing generations have beene lovers of god , yet the covenant mercy is interrupted to the innocent infants , ( in this innocent ) and they are translated over to the classe and roll of the children of turkes and pagans under the curse and wrath of god for hundreth of generations . the lord in this having a respect to that people whom hee brought out of the land of egypt , in whom hee fulfilled this promise of shewing mercy to many generations , though their nearest parents were grievers of his holy spirit , and rebellers against him : for abraham , isaac and jacobs sake , cannot bee so narrow and pinched in mercy to the posteritie , as to reduce a thousand generations to one , as this author would have him to doe . . it is a hungry extention of mercy , as the author exponeth it , to gods extending of thoughts , of redeeming and converting to a thousand generations , which hee hath to turkes ; for these thoughts of redeeming are from the free and absolute decree of election to glory , but this is an expresse promise of extending the mercy of the covenant to a thousand generations , and such as the lord by necessitie of his veracitie and faithfulnesse of covenant , cannot contraveene . . the place cor. . is corrupted contrary to the apostles intent , which is to resolve a case of conscience , whether the beleeving wife married on a pagan husband , or a beleeving husband married on a pagan wife should divorce and separate , because the seed would seeme by gods law to bee uncleane , para . . paul answereth , if one be holy and professe the faith , the 〈◊〉 is holy , v. . whereas if both father and mother were pagans and heathen , the seed should be unholy , and voyde of federall holinesse , then were the children uncleane . but the consequence is frivolous , if both be pagans , and heathen , and unbeleevers ( for so the author doth well expound the unbeleeving husband ) then the seed is uncleane and voyde of federall holinesse . but it followeth not : ergo , if both the christian parents be excommunicated , and be scandalous and wicked , they are not members of a parishionall visible church , then are the children uncleane and voyd of all federall holinesse , and have no right to the seales of the covenant . we deny this connexion , for there be great odds betwixt the children of turkes , and children of excommunicated and scandalous parents . the children of turkes and heathen are not to be baptized , but the children of excommunicates , are as turkes and heathen ; ergo , the children of excommunicates are not to bee baptized . the syllogisme is vitious in its sorme ; . it faileth in its matter , for children of excommunicates , because of the covenant made with their ancestors , are in covenant with god , and the children of turkes are not so . the author addeth , the wickednesse of the parents doth not 〈◊〉 the election or redemption , or the faith of the child : 〈◊〉 a bastard is reckoned in the catalogue of beleevers , he●●●nes . . yet a bastard was not admitted to come unto 〈◊〉 congregation of the lord to the tenth generation , deuteronom . ● . . answ. it is true , the want of baptisme is no hazzard to the salvation of the childe , nor doe we urge that the infants of excommunicates , should be baptized , because we thinke baptisme necessary , necessitate medii , as papists doe , but neither we nor papists , nor any except anabaptists , and the late belgi●●e arminians and socinians , as a episcopius , b henri us s●●tius , c somnerus , d socinus deny baptisme to be necessary in respect of gods commandement ; and indeed if you urge the constitution of a visible church , as you doe of members called of god , and saints , not onely in externall profession , but also in some measure of sincerity and truth , as you doe expressely say ( e ) in this treatise , we see not how you can hold that infants can be baptized at all while they come to age , and can give tokens to the church of their faith , and conversion to god , for if they beleeve not , you put gods seale upon a blanke , which you thinke absurd . in the closing of this section , the author reasoneth against god-fathers , which are to us of civill use , and no part of baptisme : he alledgeth , he knoweth not any ground at all to allow a faithfull man liberty to entitle another man his childe , to baptisme , onely upon a pretence of a promise , to have an eye to his education , unlesse the childe be either borne in his house or resigned to him , to be brought up in his house as his owne . i answer , . the infants of beleeving fathers absent in other lands , upon their lawfull callings , are by this holden from the seale of the covenant , as if they were the children of pagans , for no fault in the parents . . a promise of education in the christian faith is here made a sufficient ground for baptizing an infant , whereas alwayes before the author contendeth for an holy profession of faith in both , or at the least in one of the nearest parents , but we know that a friend may undertake the christian education of the childe of an excommunicate person , who is to you as the childe of a pagan , we think , upon such a promise , you could not baptize the childe of a turke : ergo , excommunicated persons and turkes are not alike , as you say . chap. . sect . . and . t●●●hing the dispensation of the censures of the church . authour . we proceede not unto censure , but in case of some knowne offence . answ. what if a member of your church doe ●how himselfe in private , to some brethren , to be a non-regenerated person , and so indeede not a member of the visible church , by your doctrine , he should be excommunicated for non-regeneration , which is against christs way , matth. . who will have such sinnes as , if denyed , may be proved by two witnesses , onely to be censurable by the church , else you shall retaine such an one , and admit him to prophane the table of the lord. in this first and second section i have nothing to examine but what hath beene handled already , especially the peoples power in church-affaires hath beene fully discussed ; onely the author will have the preaching of the word , a worship not pecu●iar to the church , but commune to those who are not in the church-state at all , and that ordinarily in respect that indians and heathens may come and heare the word , cor. . but this proveth not but that preaching of the word is proper and peculiar to the church : but there is another mystery here , as from the first chapter , second section , then preaching of the word is to be performed by gifted persons , yea ordinary preaching for the conversion of soules , before there be any pastors in the church to preach . hence is that . quest. i. whether conversion of soules to christ , be ordinarily the proper fruite & effect of the word preached by a sent pastor ; or if it be the 〈◊〉 and effect of the word preached by pastors not as pastors , but as 〈◊〉 to preach , and so of all persons not in office , yet gifted to preach ? the churches of new-england in their answers to the thirty two questions , sent by the ministers of old - england , answer by certaine theses , which i set downe and examine . . the conversion of sinners followeth not alwayes the preaching of every one that is in lawfull office of the ministery . . when conversion doth follow , it doth not follow from the preaching of a pastor , or by vertue of his office , but by the blessing of god. answ. . the former reason is most weake , conversion followeth not alway upon christs preaching , and the apostles their preaching did not alwayes produce conversion : but i pray you because they were not efficacious meanes of conversion , doth it follow , therefore they were not ordinary meanes ? i thinke not . . the second is as weake , conversion followeth not upon the preaching of a pastor by vertue of his office , but by the blessing of god. what ? ergo , pastorall preaching is not an ordinary meane of conversion ? neither doth conversion follow upon preaching , by vertue of the gift , no more then by vertue of the office , but by the blessing of god : ergo , neither is preaching of a gifted man , the ordinary mean of conversion , as you teach , nor are the sacraments by this reason , ordinary meanes to seale up our communion with christ , and the graces of the covenant , for sacraments are efficacious meanes onely by the blessing of god , and not by vertue of the office ; we doe not hold that the office hath influence , either in the word preached , or in the soules of people , but it followeth not that the pastorall preaching of these who are sent , rom. . . esa. . . and that with pastorall authority , are not the meanes appointed of god for conversion , but here they confound meanes , actu primo , lawfull and ordinary , with meanes efficacious , and , in actu secundo , blessed with successe from the lord. this we acknowledge ( say they ) that sound conversion of sinners , argueth that the instruments of such conversion were sent of god , rom. . , . jer. . . yet we dare not say that gods word is not effectuall to conversion , unlesse the man that speaketh it be a minister , that is , a church-officer , the contrary being evident , joh. . . act. . . matth. . , . cor. . . and to say so , mere to limit the spirit of god , where he hath not limited himselfe . cor. . . cor. . . . answ. . sending rom. . . is an officiall and authoritative sending , not onely a bare gifting and habilitating of the man sent , for it is such a sending , as the sending of prophets , whose feete were pleasant upon the mountaines , and the watchmen who lift up their voice , esa. . , . nah. . . and this is not a naked gifting , but besides they were commanded by god to speake , and so had authority : now though private christians be instruments of conversion , yet it followes no wayes , that they are preachers sent of god , in the sense that the scripture speaketh , rom. . . . and farre lesse in the sense that is spoken , jer. . . for it is said these who prophecie lyes in gods name , and were not sent , shall profit the people nothing ; now the sending denyed to be in these false teachers , is not onely want of gifts , but want of an authoritative command of god to preach , as is cleare , v. . i have not sent these prophets , yet they ranne ; i have not spoken unto them , yet they prophecyed . when it is said , the word of the lord came to jeremiah , to ezekiel , &c. the meaning is not that jeremiah was gifted onely , but beside 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an hability to prophecy , the lord gave him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , authority by a speciall commandement , saying , go speake , loe i have sent thee , &c. now this immediate commandement from god himselfe speaking from heaven , or in a vi●on , is not in the churches of the new testament , yet god speaketh by the elders and presbytery to pastors now , tim. . . tim. . . tit. . . . except you i say with arminians and socinians , there is no neede now of the churches sending , all gifted may preach the gospell , without any church-call . . this consequence is loose , conversion of sinners argueth that the instruments were sent of god ; ergo , the preaching of pastors ●● pastors is not the ordinary meane of conversion . lastly , we deny not but private christians may be instruments of conversion , but the places which afterward shall be examined , prove not the point , that pastorall preaching , in a constitute church , is not the ordinary meane , but your doctrine is that pastors as pastors doe onely confirme those in the faith , who are already converted , but that they convert none at all , as pastors , but that the onely ordinary meanes of conversion , and of planting of men in formall state of church-membership are men gifted to preach , and not pastors by office ; sending ( say they ) sometimes importeth but an act of gods providence , whereby men are gifted , and permitted to do such a thing , though they be not commanded of god , nor do in obedience to god , but for sinisterous ends , so god sent the king of assyria , esay . . king. . . so they that preached of envy , phil. . . are sent : so balaam was sent . . some are sent who beside gifts and permission , have also a sincere mind to imploy their gifts , god by his spirit stirring them up , joh. . . . those are sent of god , who have both gifts , permission , and a sincere mind to imploy their gifts , and withall a lawfull calling to the office : if men want a lawfull calling to that office of the ministery , and are not sent of god the third way , yet may they preach and convert soules , as sent of god , the first and second way . answ. . there should have beene places of scripture to prove that balaam and the enviers of paul , phil. . . who preached christ of envy , were sent the first way : for balaam prophecied of the starre of iacob , as one lawfully sent and a called prophet , as all other prophets , ( though hee was not a gracious man ) for numb . . . balaam saw the visions of god , and the spirit of god came upon him . . he saw the visions of the almighty , and fell in a trance : and isaiah , ieremiah , ezekiel had no other calling as prophets , though in zeale and simplicitie of prophecying , they differed from balaam : and paul would never have rejoyced that these teachers preached christ , phil. . . if they had without all calling of god preached christ ; doubtlesse they had a calling of the church to preach , except you thinke that none have a calling , as called pastors , but those who are converted . . by this distinction you hold that men may be ordinary preachers gifted , and so sent of god to preach , and may and doe convert soules , though they have no calling of the church ; which unsound doctrine the arminians and socinians hold this day : for they teach , . that all gifted persons may preach the gospel , and convers soules . . that all who are gifted to preach , are sent and lawfully called to preach , though the church doe not call them . . that now since the gospell is sufficiently revealed , and the apostles are dead , there is required no calling of the church , to make one a lawfull minis●er : and your arguments they have , and you have their arguments to evert all ministerie and order of calling of pastors ; so teach the arminians , and so episcopius ; disp . . thes . . . necessitatem missionis jam cessare dicendum est , ac p●inde fas licitumve esse homini christian● , non tantum in magno necessitatis casu , aut in enormi ecclesiae defectione , sed quovis etiam tempore v●rbum divinum docere , si ad docendum sit idoneus , & qui doari v●lunt , id serio & obnixè postulant . so doe the socinians , a● lr . roddeccius in not is in lib. smiglecii pag. . confitemur & olim ●●l●sie ministros vocari potuisse , imo vocatos fuisse , & nunc etiam voc●ri posse ; in vero id quod olim factum est , & hodie fieri potest , ad m●nus ministrorum requiratur , hoc vere & perpetuo quaeritur ; cat●ch si● raccoviensis , cap. . . . cum per hujusmodi , ex praes●ripto apostolicae doctrinae constituuntur , & in his duabus rebus praest ●ut , vitae innocontiâ & ad docendum aptitudine , propter ejusmodi constitutionem apud omnes authoritatem suam merito in venire debent . smaleius in refut . thes . d. frantzii parte . disp . . pag. . hoc enim in questione est , an hujusmodi constitutio sit prorsus necessaria ad constituendum verbi dei ministrum : hoc autem nos negamus , nihil enim tale , ( quod caput reiest ) in descriptione eorum , quae ad episcopum constituendum requiritur , nec uspiam judicatum vel levissime videmus , cum qui talis sit , postea vocari , & mittiab aliquo debere , imo posse aliquem per se munus tale concupiscere vel aff●ctare manifeste scriptum legimus . theoph. nicolaid . in refut . tract . de miss . ministrorum cap. . pag. , . . munus docendi non tam est honos , quam labor , laborem autem semper sumere li●et , h●ores non item : & pag. . docet paulus rect● id fieri posse , unumqu●mque munus docendi aggredi , m●do ad id aptus sit , quod aggredi cogitat , vel cupit . quest. ii. whether or not all gifted persons may preach the word of god publikely , and ordinarily , for the gathering in of soules to christ , though they be destitute of all officiall authoritie , or church calling to that ministery ? our brethren hold all gifted persons not in office may ordinarily preach publikely ; so teach mr. robinson in a treatise intituled the peoples ple t for prophecying , the arguments of which booke i shall shortly discusse . hence these considerations . . distinct. there is one power of publike preaching in a church not constitute , and another in a church constitute ; gifted persons in extraordinary cases , where a church is not planted , may publikely preach , but the case is otherwise in a church constituted . . distinct. pastors not onely as gifted men , but as pastors are ●illed of god , for the conversion of soules , and the visible church is christs visible kingdome , and visible society , to make persons members of the invisible church of the first borne . . dist. publike preaching , as it is the ordinary meane of saving such as beleeve , is proper and peculiar to the church , both subjectively , as being onely in the church , and objectively as being onely exercised on the church members , perse , but upon p●gans by accident . . dist. there is a call to an habituall and ordinary prophe●ying , here is required not onely a calling by gifts , but also a collation of authoritie to the office , either immediately by god , or mediately by the church , and there is a call to some particular or occasionall acts of exhorting , as the martyrs and stephen are called to give consession of their faith , and a king in battell , to exhort his army , or a prince his subjects to piety , and to this latter there is no other call required , but the place and profession of the exhorter , though hee bee not by office a pastor . . dist. there is a formall calling of the church , as the laying on of the hands of the elders , and a virtuall and interpretative calling or tacite approbation of the church , when learned men of eminent gifts , not in office , do write commentaries , sermons on canonick scriptures , and tractates resuting heresies ; to this the tacite approbation of the church is required , but these have not ordinary pastorall care , nor are they the ordinary converters of soules to christ , as the pretended prophets of separatists are . . dist. gifted christians may occasionally admonish , warne , rebuke and exhort one another ; . privately ; . without any pastorall care of soules as they are a church , but onely as they occasionally converse with them ; . excommuni officio charitatis , by the law of nature , charitie tying one member to helpe another ; . not authoritatively by speciall office ; but all authoritie here is from the word occasionally spoken . the pastor is to preach , . publikely ; . to the church as the church . . with a pastorall obligation to all alike , whether he converse daily with them or not . . not onely by the tie of common charitie , but by a vertue of a speciall office . . with authority both objective from the word , and officiall from his charge . . and is obli●ged to separate himselfe for this charge allanerly , as a watchman who must give an account in a speciall manner to jesus christ. our brethren hold that the ordinary and established way in the church of christ to the end of the world , is that all that are converted are made fit materialls for the visible church by private christians , as gifted of god to preach publikely , and to gather a true church to christ. . that none unconverted , as they are such , are under any pastorall care of christs officers . . that pastors as pastors , doe convert none , but onely confirme those who are already converted ; and that if pastors shall convert any to christ , it is by accident , as we say , with aristotle , musicus curat aegrotum , a musician cureth a sick man , which he doth no wayes as a musician : for pastors doe convert as gifted persons , and not as pastors , and conversion of soules is no proper church-worke , but accidentall to pastors . but that none can take on him lawfully to preach the word publikely , in the established and ordinarily approved way of christ for the conversion of soules , but he who is not only gifted , but also called thereunto by god and his church , i prove . . argum. if faith come ordinarily by hearing a pastor sent of god , and such pastors as are called messengers with good newes , and watchmen not onely gifted , but also instructed with authority of office , then are not gifted persons , because gifted , called of god to be ordinary converters of soules . but the former is true , rom. . . for they are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and of these the prophet saith , isa. . . thy watchmen shall lift up the voyce . and it is thus confirmed , that gospel which is the power of god and the wisedome of god to those who are saved , is the gospel preached by such as are sent both to preach and baptise : but the gospel preached by gifted men , only out of office , is not the gospel preached by those who are sent both to preach and to baptise : ergo , the gospel preached by onely gifted persons voyd of all office , is not the power and wisdom of god to those who are saved . the assumption is granted , for gifted men out of office may not lawfully baptise . i prove the proposition , cor. . . but wee preach christ , &c. that this [ wee ] is to bee understood of those who are sent both to preach and baptise , is cleare , vers . . but christ sent mee not to baptise , but to preach , that is , he sent mee not to baptise principally , ergo , in one and the same patent from heaven , paul was warranted to preach , and to baptise , as one commission is given , matth. . . to teach all nations , and to baptise , yea it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 then it is such a preaching as must bee backed with the sealing by baptisme ; also if he had meant that preaching was not peculiar to apostles and other successors , hee should have said . but yet preach christ crucified , &c. for separatists do teach , with socinians , that there was a multitude of unofficed prophets at corinth . robinson , as if he had learned in socinus his schoole , saith to this , but for the word sending which he so much urgeth , it must bee knowne , that all who teach lawfully are sent by christ , in respect of their personall gifts and graces , so ordinary officers are not sent by those who appoint them to minister , as was the extraordinary apostles sent by christ who appointed them . sending importeth a passeth of the sent from the sender to another , and so the apostles were sent by christ to preach the gospel to the jewes and gentiles , and so are not pastors sent by the church ( which calleth them ) unto others , but to minister unto her selfe , after the exercise of publike ministery is ended , the church doe publikely exhort and require , as the rulers doe paul and barnabas , act . . that if they have any word of exhortation , they would say on . answ. surely mr. yates , and wee both have much for us to urge the necessitie of sending , except men would runne unsent , and so be guilty of intrusion , for so doth the scripture , exod. . . take to thee aaron thy brother , &c. numb . . . thou shalt appoint the levits over the tabernacle of the testimony , and over all the vessels , and all that belongeth thereunto : so saith hezekiah to the levites , the lord hath chosen you to stand before him , and to minister unto him : esay . . and i heard the voyce of the lord saying , whom shall i send , and who shall goe for me ? . and hee said , goe and say to this people , jerem. . . and the word of the lord came unto me , saying , v. . hos. . . and the word of the lord came to me , heb. . . joh. . . there was a man sent of god , luk. . . matth. . . those twelve jesus sent forth , isa. . . isa. . . heb. . . joh. . . matth. . . mark . . rom. . . rom. . . gal. . . act. . . paul and barnabas ordained elders in every church , tim. . . tim. . . ●im . . , . tit. . , . if you urge not sending , you goe from the scriptures . . he saith all who lawfully teach are sent of god in respect of personall gifts . but . where doth the holy ghost speake so in the scripture ? all then who have gifts to be kings and magistrates are sent of god to the throne and bench ? what bloody confusions would hence fellow ? yea if they have gifts to bee kings and do not all flie to the throne , they resist the calling of god , and sinne in so doing , as jonah did , and hide their lords talent . . women in whose lipps is the law of grace , prov. . . and who are to teach the younger women , tit. . . . are so sent of god to preach ; o but ( say they ) they are forbidden to preach . i answer , true , then ( to be gifted to preach : ) is not all one with this ( to bee sent to preach ) for to bee sent to preach of god , is to be commanded to preach . if then women bee sent in respect of gifts , they are commanded to preach , and that by god , and yet gods word forbiddeth them to preach ; ergo , that same will of god revealed doth command and forbid one and the same thing , which is absurd . ergo , to be gifted is not to be sent to preach . . you here clearely side with arminians and so●inians , for episcopius a requireth no more to preaching , but that the man bee idoneous and apt to teach . and b theoph nocolaides , that there be in him an holy life and aptitudo ad docendum alios , aptitude to teach others . . arminians and socinians teach that the sending , rom. . . and other places are meant of extraordinary sending which is now ceased , since the apostles are dead . so ( c ) episcopius d and arminians in their confession . e socinus f ostorodius expound the place , rom. . . paulum de suo duntaxat tempore loqui , and so there is no need of sending now : and robinson sympathizing with them , saith , ordinary officers are not sent now by the church , as the apostles were then sent of christ ; but the professors of leyden g refuting the arminians , say there is a necessitie of sending now as there was then , and h calvin , i beza , k paraeus accord to this , that paul speaketh of ordinary calling . . the word of god differenceth the giving of gifts to the ministery , and the giving of authoritie , and sending authoritative by a lawfull calling , the one being collatio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the other 〈◊〉 , as matth. . . then he called the twelve , and gave them power , and v. . their sending and gifting by authoritie is cleare , these twelve he sent out : so jer. . . i have separated thee , &c. this is calling and sending , & v. . then the lord put forth his hand and touched my mouth , this is a giving of gifts , and isa. . . isaiah is gifted when he saw the visions of god , but chap. . . he is sent and receiveth authority to goe , beside that v. , . and job . . when christ breathed upon the disciples , hee giveth them the gifts of the holy spirit , but when he saith , go and teach , and as my father sent me , so send i you , he giveth them authoritie and sendeth them : yea though prophets did prophecie true things that should come to passe , yet were they false prophets , de●t . . , . because the lord sent them not . and for the place , rom. , . cited from isa. . though prophets hearing isaiah and jeremiah prophecie of the peoples returne from babylon , should prophecy the same that isaiah and jeremiah had prophecied , yet not being sent of god , they should have beene false prophets : and after the spirit is entered unto ezecbiel , ch . . . and so he is gifted , yet is there another sending , v. . then said the lord unto me , &c. and might ( i pray you ) baruch have preached all his master jeremiahs prophecies ? but i thinke that should not have made him a prophet : yea and christ in whom was all fulnesse of gifts and grace , job . . . col. . . yet tooke not on him to be a priest of the new testament till he was called of god , as aaron , heb. . , . job . . . and calvin , musculus , gualter , expone the prophets and pastors , prophecying peace , isa. . to be the prophets , who not onely were gifted to preach , but sent with speciall authority , to prophecie the peoples deliverance out of babylon . and lastly , by this also have the gifted prophets a calling of god , to administrate the sacraments , because , if to be gifted , be to be sent of god , certainly they are gifted to administrate the sacraments no lesse then to preach , and so l saith the arminians , with their socinians , as m socinus and n smalcius , if they say , christ requireth a particular minister to the sacraments , but not so to the word : i answer , to pastorall preaching he requireth also a peculiar minister , as our brethren teach , from act. . . pet. . . but to teaching by vertue of a gift any gifted man is sufficient : the same distinction may as well hold that there is a pastorall administration of the sacraments and a common administration of them by vertue of a gift , yea and o gerardus observeth well , that to the calling of the ministery belongeth the administration of the sacraments , as a speciall part thereof , cor. . . ephes. . . jam. . . . yea and if ministers bee stewards , cor. . . are they not dispensators of the sacraments , by their office , as of the word ? . robinson giveth for shame a sort of calling to the unofficed prophets , to wit , that the church requireth them , if they have a word of exhortation , to speake on , as act. . but . not his church , but the rulers required paul and barnabas to speake . . the rulers knew them to be apostles and pastors by office , for there were prophets there , chap. . . but the apostles would have none to preach , as pastors by office , but such as are proved , and authorized by the elders , tim. . . ch . . . tim. . . tim. . , . . this calling of the church is onely for orders cause in the constitute church , but a thing not necessary by divine institution , and so the socinians . so smalcius p teach us that the churches sending and calling in the apostolick church was a custome , 〈◊〉 decorum arbitramur ( saith smalcius ) u● id observaretur ; and and so saith q andr. raddecius , and the r arminians have also the same distinction : but this place approveth not that every by person ( so to speake ) might preach in the jewes synagogues . . argum. if christ ascending on high led captivitie captive , and gave gifts unto men , some to be apostles and some pastors and doctors , and that for the gathering of christs body , and if some , not all are prophets , cor. . . then hath god appointed pastors in office to bee the ordinary gatherers of soules in to jesus christ , and if this bee not said , when hee ascended on high , hee made all private christians de jure , preachers to edifie publikely the whole church , and if any bee not gifted , it is their owne fault , for they are obliged to bee such . . argum. he who matth. . . contradistinguisheth the prophet and the righteous man , as different persons , and having different rewards , he doth not acknowledge a righteous man to be a prophet , hoc ipso , because he is a righteous man. but christ doth contradistinguish them , v. . he that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet , shall receive a prophets reward , and he that receiveth a righteous man , in the name of a righteous man , shall receive a righteous mans reward ; ergo , christ acknowledgeth them to differ . now if a righteous man , hoc ipso , because hee is a righteous man , and a member of the church , should exercise these same specifice acts with a prophet , that is , if hee should publikely preach to convert soules , he should by this place bee a prophet , and the reward of a prophet should be given to the receiver of the righteous man , yea and more then the reward of a prophet , in respect he is both a righteous man , and a prophet . . to all prophets a speciall promise of gods assistance and presence is made in the word , as jerem. . , . matth. . luk. . verse . . act. . verse . but to these who are not prophets by office , there is no such promise in the word ; ergo , . all that are sent of god as ordinary converters of soules from the kingdome of darkenesse to the kingdome of jesus christ , must seeke out fit words , as the preacher did , eccles. . . . hee must convince and judge the hearer , and make manifest the secrets of the heart , as cor. . , . he must cut the word aright , as a timothy , tim. . he must give every one of the house meate in due season , matth. . . he must know and try the wayes of the people , jerem. . . when he seeth the sword comming , he must warne the wicked to turne from his evill way , ezech. . , . hee must watch for soules , as one who is to give an account , heb. . . hee must exhort the people to bee reconciled to god , and this hee must pray and request in christs stead , cor. . . and hee must give himselfe wholly to reading , tim. . , . and not intangle himselfe with any 〈◊〉 calling , tim. . . all these cannot be done by prophets not in office . and all these are duties of pastors in office , and to ty private christians , who are commanded to attend their owne callings were unreasonable , and repugnant to the word of god. the proposition is cleare ; no man can preach , but hee who must give himselfe to reading , and must watch and speake to the present case of the hearers ; but especially such preachers as are the onely ordinary converters of soules to christ , must give warning that the unrighteous die not in his sinne : now to say that all these were duties incumbent to merchants , artificers , fashioners , carpenters , cloathiers , were to mocke the word of god , and to say , these and these onely were the gatherers of a church , and kingdome to christ , were unknowne divinity . . all prophets are set downe in christs roll of lawfull officers . . the rules and canons for the right exercise of their ministery is set downe , especially seeing these pretended prophets are presumed to be the greatest part of the visible church . . the onely ordinary gainers of soules to christs kingdome and visible church , even to the second comming of jesus christ. . seeing the lord doth so often complaine of idle pastors , of dumbe dogges , by whose sleeping , soules are losed . now this argument for the proposition seemeth most reasonable . in the old testament priests , levites , prophets ; and all the edifying officers are set downe there , and so are the officers and canons anent their government set downe in the new testament , eph. . . cor. . . tim. . tim. . act. . , . io●l . . act. . . but no such things are written in the old or new testament of gifted prophets not in office . . all lawfull officers have power authoritatively from iesus christ to remit and to retaine sinnes , by the preaching of the word . but preachers out of office have no such power , ergo , preachers out of office , are not lawfull preachers . the proposition is , ioh. . . the assumption is evident , for where are they sent as the father sent his sonne christ ? and that promise is made onely to the apostles , and to their successors , prophets without office are not the successors of the apostles . a robinson saith , the commission there given is peculiar to the apostles onely , and confirmed by the miraculous inbreathing of the holy ghost , and by them to be dispensed principally to unbeleevers , of all which nothing is common to ordinary officers , but else where , this power is given to the whole church , matth. . . cor. . cor. . . yea to every faithfull brother , matth. . . ch. . . luk. . . this is that which anabaptists teacheth ( as b chemnitius saith ) and the very doctrin of c ostorodius , d nicolaides , e socinus , but except the miraculous inbreathing of the holy ghost , there is nothing here peculiar to the apostles onely : for the loosing and retaining of sinne , is nothing but binding and loosing of the sinnes , and this is nothing but the forgiving and retaining of sinne by the preaching of the word , and censures of the church , and that binding and loosing , matth. . is not given to the whole church of beleevers , for the text saith no such thing , but power of the keyes is given to peter , that is , to the church-guides the successors of peter . . authoritative power of forgiving of sinne , is not matth. . said to bee ratified in heaven , but onely when the church doth bind and loose ; and forgiving , luk. . is betwixt sister and sister , who have not power to bind and loose in heaven . . all prophets are either ordinary or extraordinary , as is cleare in gods word ; extraordinary now are not in the church , and the ordinary prophets now are not gifted to preach the word , except as timothy , from their youth they have beene trained up in the scriptures , and have learning , sciences , knowledge of the tongues , if he would bee a man able to teach others , tim. . . tim. . hee must meditate , reade , and give himselfe wholly to these things , tim. . , . and so must leave his calling contrary to the apostle his commandement , cor. . , , . thess. . . ephes. . . but if hee have a gift for publicke preaching , he is to separate himselfe for it , seeing a gift is a token of gods separation . quest. iii. whether the arguments of mr. robinson for the p●ophecying of private persons , not in office , doe strongly conclude ? i shall set them downe in order and discusse them . if a bishop must be apt to teach , then he must be tryed before he be● admitted to the office . ergo , while be is o●t of office he must prophecie . answ. this argument concludeth not the question , for by as good reason the sonnes of the prophets or young prophets , who behoved to exercise their gift , as sam. . . king. . . king. . . king. . . before they bee fully received as prophets , must be prophets and officers not in office differing from prophets in office , even as their lay prophets are different from pastors , but an apprentise of a trade is not a different tradesman from the master to whom hee serves as apprentise , but he is onely different from him in degree . but their lay-prophets are tradesmen , not sonnes of the prophets , not ayming at the pastorall charge , but ordinary officers for converting of soules , and doe differ from pastors , as those who are non-pastors , differ from pastors . robinson . if the lords gifting of eldad and medad , numb . . . with the spirit of prophecying , inabling them to prophecy , and made them extraordinary prophets , why should not by due proportion an ordinary gift inabling a man to an ordinary prophecy , serve also to make him an ordinary prophet ? now moses in wishing that all the people were prophets , wisheth as well the use , as possession of the gift . answ. the jewes say that eldad and medad were of the . elders , upon whom was powred part of that spirit of prophecy , that was on moses , and they say they were written in the . papers , but not elected , because they drew the papers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a part and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 senex , but it is not like joshu● would have envied if they had beene now judges , or that moses would have likened them unto the people . however , prophets they were . but both the antecedent is false , and the consequence nulle , for if you meane by the lords gifting of eldad and medad , a naked and a bare revealing to them of the visions of god , without an impulsive commandement from god , setting them on action to prophecie , ( this impulsion is an authoritative sending and calling , ) the antecedent is false , for that gifting of them onely made them able , but not formally authorized prophets : but if the gifting of them did include both the gift and the command of god , to use the gift , as certainly it did , now the consequence is null , for the naked giving of an ordinary gift , except god by himselfe , and now by the authority of his church , command the use of the gift , no gifted man , because gifted , is by and by a prophet , but he must have a commandement ecclesiasticke now to preach , as eldad and medad had impulsive commandement to prophecy ; and if any be gifted by an ordinary way as eldad and medad was extraordinarily , then they are to be thrusted out to the pastorall calling , and none but a fleshly man will envie them . robinson , chron. . . jehos●aphat sent his princes to preach or teach in the cities of iudah , and with them the levites , so the . interpreters , so pagnine , so ierom , and the english translation : ergo , princes are prophets not in office , who may teach . answ. . doctor alexander colveill my reverent colleague , and as learned , so well experienced in the hebrew , saith that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is here taken for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and noteth the accusative case , and is to bee read ; and he sent the princes , as buxtorfius noteth , thesaur . l. . e. . and this chaldaisme is to be seene in these bookes of the chronicles written after the captivitie , as chron. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that they might praise jehovah , and chap. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he writ letters also , to raile on the lord , and so the parallell place , king. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the place , as the doctor citeth , is well exponed by r. salomon iarc●i in his commentary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is , it was proper to the priests and levites 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to teach & instruct , as it is written , deut. . . according to al that the priests and levites shal teach you , do yee ; but the princes went with them lest they should have rebelled against their words , that they might compell them to obey , &c. the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in pihel signifieth this , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in kall , didicit , in pihel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he caused him to learne , dan. . , . nebuchadnezzar commanded also penaz 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to teach them learning and the language of chaldea ; that honorable courtier was not a schoolemaster to teach the children of the captivitie himselfe , but he did it by others . the king of syria saith to the king of israel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou shall cure naaman of his leprosie ; the maide exponed it , thou shalt cure him by another , elisha shall cure him . pilat scourged jesus , but livius saith , the judge said to a burrio , i. lictor , colliga manus : so deut. . . moses therefore writ this song the same day , and taught it , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 teach them this song , and put it in their mouth . it was impossible that moses in his owne person , could teach the people , and put this song in their mouth , therefore he behooved to teach them by the priests and levites , as . . . the hebrewes may read so , but he sent to his princes , for the letter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a note of the accusative case , of the dative , of the genitive , or of the accusative case with a certaine motion as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to david , or of david . valet haebraeis ( inquit schindlerus ) ad , in , vel 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 super , and it noteth a motion to a thing , gen. . . & aedificavit , he made the rib in a woman 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iud. . . and gideon made it in an ephod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sam. . they annointed david 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to bee king. then it must bee read , hee sent to the princes , benchail , &c. to teach in the cities of iudah , v. . and with them he sent levites , v. . and they taught in iudah : there is not the least signification in the text that the princes taught . robinson . princes and iudges are to open and expone the law by which they governe , else they governe with tyranny . answ. judges are to convince the theefe and the murtherer , . in a coactive way , not in an ecclesiastick way . . as these sinnes are troublesonie and hurtful to the state and common-wealth . that others may feare to hurt the state by the like sinnes , not that the malefactors may be converted to god , and their soules may be saved ; but your lay-prophets simpliciter , not in ordine ad paenam , are the onely ordinary converters of soules . robinson . there is an excellent sermon ( saith he ) of iel oshaphats to the iudges , chron. . . and to the levites , . . and a divine prayer , . . and hezekiah hath an excellent sermon to the priests and levites , in the very temple , chron. . , . and nehemiah taught the people the law of the lord : kings are shepheards and feeders , not onely by government , but also by instruction . answ. . these sermons of iehoshaphat and hezekiah were first in time of extraordinary defections , when the priests ( whose it were to teach the people ) were corrupted and turned dumbe dogs . . they were sermons of propheticall instinct and divine impulsions , as the very stile of them cleareth , and therefore cannot warrant christian princes to bee ordinary prophets , except you make the king a nationall pastor over pastors , and two thousand congregations ; for if , as prince , hee bee their pastor , he is equally pastor and teacher to all these congregations , and he must be as prince , obliged to bee a prophet to convert all : how exclude they a pastor of pastors and a diocesian prelate , who introduce a nationall pastor ? yea how deny we a pope , if the king carry both the swords , both of the spirit as a prophet , and that ordinarily , by his calling to feed soules , and the civill sword to take vengeance upon evill doers ? for whosoever preacheth the word of god as a prophet , hath the keyes of the kingdome of heaven committed unto him , to bind and loose , to remit and retaine sinnes on earth , and in heaven , for the preached gospell is the keyes of the kingdome , as is the power of church censures . then must the kings have both keyes of church and state , and what hindereth but they admit the king as king , and a nationall pastor , to be the head of the church under christ. . consider the king as a christian and gifted with learning , hee is parens patriae , and publick nurse father of the church , and may occasionally upon some extraordinary exigent , at the meeting of the states , or when his armies are going out to battell , make use of the word of god , to exhort them to generall duties of religion , and justice , and to be prepared for meeting with eternitie and judgement ; and this he doth as a christian father , his subjects being his children : but what is this to inferre that the king as king is a prophet , and an ordinary feeder of soules ex officio , by office , and that by knowledge and instruction , as robinson saith , and an ordinary converter of soules , and such a prophet as doth preach in the church ordinarily , to the edifying of the church , and conviction and conversion of infidels , and gathering of a people to god , as they say of their prophets out of office , cor. . , . . , , . . and upon the same ground a king who hath the spirit of adoption , may publikely pray , as jeboshaphat did for the lord of hosts his presence , to goe out with his armies against the enemies of the gospel , but à speciei positione ad generis positionem male sequitur , hee may be the peoples mouth to god in such an exigence , and hee may give a word of exhortation anent duties generall of good subjects ; ergo , hee is an ordinary prophet , for the ordinary preaching of the gospel to all his subjects ; it is a loose and vaine collection . lastly , nehemiah a prince taught the people , saith he . i answer , nehemiah was a prophet and author of canonick scripture , as was salomon , and therefore his teaching proveth not the point , nehem. . v. . nor can i finde where nebemiah preached or prophecied to the people at all , but that ezra the scribe , nehem. . and the levites , chap. . 〈◊〉 . ( which robinson citeth without warrant ) did instruct and ●each the people . robinson . and if it were not ( saith he ) the received order in israel of old for men out of office to speake and teach in publicke , how did scribes , pharisees and lawyers teach publickly among the jewes , of whom yet many were not levites , or churchmen , but indifferently of any tribe ? phil. . . and how was iesus admitted to dispute in the temple with the doctors , luk. . . and to preach in the synagogues , matth. . . luk. . , . and how were paul and barnabas desired , if they had any word of exhortation , to say on ? act. . . . for the rulers acknowledged christ and paul for no extraordinary praphets , but onely admitted them to the use of their gifts . answ. . it is great ignorance , if you thinke scribes , pharisees and expounders of the law were not prophets , because they were not of the tribe of levi , for priests behooved onely to bee of the tribe of levi , but prophets , as ieremiah and others , were extraordinarily raised up of god out of any tribe , as calvin well observeth , and all versed in scripture , and that they were teachers in office is cleare , matth. . . they sit in moses his chaire , v. . . &c. and the office of teaching , though abused , is also ascribed by christ , to the expounders of the law , luk. . . and what is said of pharisees in taking away the key of knowledge , is said of them , v. . . christs asking of questions , and that when hee was . yeares of age , all wondering at his learning , luk. . . was no act of prophecying : and granting it had beene the practise of the iewish church to admit a child of twelve yeares to preach in the temple , and to admit hand over head , tradesmen , and all to prophecy in the temple , it is an argument from their corrupt practise , à facto ad jus , and no more a rule for the preaching of fashioners , cloathiers , mariners , in the temple , then the jewes their taking up stones in the temple to stone christ : and it is knowne that christ did not publickly prophesie in the synagogues till he was baptized ( as all the learned thinke ) and while his name and fame spread abroad , that a great prophet was arisen , luk. . , , . luk. . , , . yea and the pharisees knew him to be a teacher sent of god , ioh. . . and all the people tooke him to be a prophet , and therefore the rulers feared to apprehend him , and his doctrine and miracles got him the name of a prophet sent of god , and paul and barnabas were known to be teachers in office , else the rulers would not have desired a word of exhortation , for they did not invite strangers promiscuously to prophesie , and this you onely say , but doe not prove , and is more for us nor against us . robinson alleadgeth a place out of ieremiah , . . . where it is said , that israel and iudah in a spirituall conference shall incourage ●●● another ( as calvin saith ) to repentance , and to joyne themselves to the true church ; which is nothing for publicke prophecying , for thus much private christians , yea all that feare god , women not excepted , may doe in christian conference , as is cleare , zach. . . mal. . . psal. . . esa. . , , . heb. . . heb. . , , . the fourth place which he bringeth is , matth. . v. . ● . . christ sent out the twelve disciples to preach the kingdome of ●eaven to the lost sheepe of the house of israel , but they were not apostles or preachers in office , till his resurrection , but onely apostles elect as you say , the major elect ; for . they received not commission till after christs resurrection , ioh. . . . matth. . , . . the least in the kingdome of god is greater then iohn baptist , for the christian church began not properly till his resurrection , and the apostles being members of the church of the new testament , they could not be apostles in office , before christs death , except an adjunct be before the subject , and an officer before the incorporation , whereof he is an officer . . they were ignorant of many mysteries of christ , his death , resurrection , nature of his kingdome , matth. . &c. which was unbeseeming apostolick dignitie , to the which the highest degree if infallible revelation was requisite . . how did they returne , as non-residents to remaine with christ till his death ? . ephes. . . christ till he ascended on high , and not till then , gave some to be apostles , &c. hence it must follow that the disciples were prophets not in office , and so did preach all this time . answer . . i answer these frivolous reasons . . i prove they were apostles , or at least prophets in office , before christs death and resurrection . and . they received not ample and largest commission to go and preach to all nations , before christs resurrection , matth. . . that is true , but what then ? therefore they received no commission as pastors in office to preach to israel , not to the gentiles or samaritans , it no wayes followeth ; yea the contrary , a calling to a pastorall charge they had , matth. . . these twelve did iesus send out , and commanded them saying , goe , &c. and these directions and canons which concerne watchmen , tim. . are fully set downe , matth. . when they receive both gifts , v. . and authoritie and a calling , v. . and speciall instructions , v. , , , . how they should discharge and acquit themselves in their ministery , the like whereof is never given to lay-prophets ( i must crave leave to use this word . ) to the . i answer , that it is false that christ died and lived a member of the iewish church onely , he received the sacrament of baptisme as a member of the christian church , as hee was circumcised and keeped the law of moses , to testifie hee was a member of jewish church ; and it became him to bee a member of both churches , who was to make of two one people , ephes. . . and it is false that the apostles were adjuncts of the christian church ; as apostles invested in their full apostolike dignity , to preach to all the world , they were parts and members , not adjuncts of the catholick visible church of christians : when pastors are called adjuncts of the visible church , it is cleare that they are made but accidents of the visible church , & so that the ministery is not simply necessary to the visible church , which is the wicked doctrin of a arminians , b episcopius , c socinus , nicolaides , d & the anabaptists taught the same , as saith e gasti●s , but though the apostles , as invested with full apostolick authority , be members of the christian church , and the new ierusalem bee founded upon their doctrine , ephes. . . revel . . . yet this hindereth not , but as called apostles and officers , limited to preach to losed israel onely , matth. . , , . they were members of the jewish church , and called apostles . to the . i answer , ignorance of fundamentall points not fully proposed and revealed , if there bee a gratious disposition of saving faith , to beleeve these when they shall be revealed , such was as in the lords disciples , matth. . , . luk. . . luk. . , . may well stand with the dignitie of young , and as yet limited apostles , matth. . , , . who had not yet received the holy ghost , in that measure , act. . , . that was requisite for apostles , in their full apostolicke charge , and made infallible pen-men of canonick scriptures , sent to preach to all the world . to the . i answer , they were not non-residents , because they returned to reside with christ after they had casten out devils , ioh. . , . ( which your lay-prophets by your owne confession cannot lawfully doe ) not to bee idle , but to learne more , and to be eye and care witnesses of the doctrine , life , death , resurrection and ascension to glory of christ , pet. . , , . joh. . , , . matth. . , , . luk. . , , . joh. . , . act. . . which was necessary , that they might preach these things to the world . nor is a pastor in his studie attending , reading , as tim. . , . though he be not , then teaching , a non-resident . to the . i say , when christ ascended unto heaven , ephes. . . he gave some to bee apostles , &c. but that gifting of apostles is not to restrict the institution of apostles , to the precise time of his ascension : for you grant that after the lords resurrection , and before his ascension they were ordained apostles , matth. . . joh. . . but the full sending of the holy spirit to apostles , evangelists , pastors and teachers , is ascribed to his ascension as a speciall fruite of his ascension , act. . , . joh. . v. , , . and therefore is their sending called an effect of the holy spirit . for the second point , giving and not granting that the apostles were not apostles , till after the resurrection , yet will it not follow , that they were lay-prophets , or prophets out of office , for they might have beene pastors in office , though not apostles in office , for there were beside these , others in the jewish church , else where were scribes , pharisees , lawyers , doctors , all sitters in moses his chaire ? they were not apostles sure ; what were they then ? all teachers out of office ? no ; if then i prove that the apostles were teachers in office , though it were granted that they were not apostles ( as in the fulnesse and plenitude thereof they were not ) till christ arose from the dead , i prove as much as taketh this argument for lay-prophets out of their hands . but that they were not non-officed teachers , but called apostles or pastors , i prove . . argum. judas was chosen one of the twelve and an apostle , ergo , farre more were the rest . i prove the antecedent , . act. . let another take his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his charge , . v. . he took part with us ( say they ) in this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in this ministery . . matthias v. . was chosen in that place and apostleship from which judas fell . now lay-prophets have no officiall episcopacie , no ministery , nor can any chosen in their place said to bee chosen to an apostleship , ioh. . . have not i chosen you twelve ? this choosing was to an embassage ; saith cyrill , augustine , euthymius , and all our divines with them . . matth. . . these are the names of the twelve apostles ▪ v. . he send them , what power he giveth to them in respect of al the world to remit and retaine sinnes , iob. . that hee giveth to them toward the house of israel , v. , , . under the name of offered peace , ( magis & minus non variant speciem ) mark. . . mark. . . hee ordained twelve , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hee made twelve to be with him , which he might send to preach , luk. . . and he called the twelve , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , be sent them , hee tooke them from their fishing , and made them fishers of men ; and matth. . . hee calleth them workmen worthy of their hire : private prophets are not gifted , nor sent , nor taken from their callings , nor are they workmen deserving stipend , for that is due to prophets by office , cor. . . . gal. . . tim. . . . those who have power to dispense the seales of grace , and to baptize , are not private or unofficed prophets , but sent of god and in office , as matth. . . cor. . . and a robinson granteth this , and so doe separatists teach b . but the disciples of christ , before his resurrection , baptized , ioh. . . . those who were witnesses of the life , miracles , doctrine of christ , and preached the same , and confirmed it by miracles , were pastors . . those who were twelve selected men chosen , luk. . . named apostles , mark. . . mark. . . luk. . . to whom the keyes of the kingdome were given , matth. . , , . matth. . . are not unofficed men . . this is a popish opinion , and to be suspected , for papists to advance peter to a popedome , will have him no apostle , while after the resurrection , for c bellarmine saith , imposition of hands is essentiall to holy orders , and that the apostle ordained no presbyters while christ was risen , and made the apostles and gave them the holy spirit : d the councell of trent hinteth at the same opinion ; bellarmine saith the apostles were made priests , at the last supper , to sacrifice christs body , but not presbyters till after that , when they received the holy ghost ; and e cardinall hosius , f martinus ledesma , g petrus a soto say the disciples are made apostles , ioh. . h toletus saith they had power before this time to preach , but not to forgive sinnes , in the sacrament of pennance while now . and i cardinall cajetan saith here was first the sacrament of pennance ordained : and it is true k cyrillus and l chrysostome say that iohn . soli sacerdotes , onely pastors by this place have power to forgive sinnes , but not by this place onely , for they say that matth. . power is given , m joannes de lugo the popes professor at rome , teach , that joh. . the apostles first received this power . and jayne with him n suarez o thomas sanchez , p aegidius coniuk q and vasquez , though as good as they say the contrary , as r panormitanus , a late schooleman , s avila , and t sylvester , and u john bishop of rochester writing against papists , and their popes power of dethroning kings , saith , how could the apostles who are examples of good order preach and baptize , if they were meere layicks , and not pastors while , after christ was arisen from the dead ? x robinson citeth luk. . . christ biddeth the dispossessed man g●shew what great things the lord had done for him , and hee went and preached it ; now miracles are a part of the gospel , and written that we should beleeve , joh. . . and they prove that jesus is the sonne of god. ergo , this man being no prophet , preached the gospel . answ. . this will not conclude the question . . one man published one single miracle wrought upon himselfe , which is a part of the gospel onely . . and upon a particular occasion did show what things the lord had done for him . . he is commanded to publish it to his friends , and domesticks onely , matth. . . go to thy house , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to thine owne friends , and show them what the lord hath done for thee . hence from this narrow antecedent a vaste and broad conclusion is drawne ; ergo , it is lawfull , because this man published one particular of the gospel , for any gifted man to preach the whole gospell , because one man did it upon a miraculous occasion to his friends ; ergo , all gifted men may prophesie the whole gospel to all the churches ordinarily , it is a vaine consequence . . because hee published one particular , upon a particular exigence , therefore any gifted man may ordinarily , and weekly and daily preach for the conversion of soules . . because hee published one miracle to his friends in a private way , therefore any gifted man may preach the whole gospell in publick , to all the church , truly here is a weake reason . . it is most like that this man was an intruding prophet , like the separatists prophets , for he requested that hee might be with jesus , and bee made a disciple to preach the gospell , as calvin , marlorat , bullinger expone it ; but jesus suffered him not . now if christ had commanded him to be a prophet , as robinson will have him , he should have granted what he sought . lastly , the man did more then christ commanded , for mark. . . hee published it in decapolis throughout all the citie , whereas christ had limited the publishing thereof to his friends and house onely . robinson saith , luk. . the seventie disciples preached , and yet they were men out of office . i answer . . the seventie disciples were pastors in office . . satan by their ministery fell from heaven as lightning , v. . christ saith , behold i give you power to tread upon serpents , luk. . . after these things the lord apponted other seventie , and sent them out ; here is a cleare calling , they confirme their doctrine by miracles , and casting out of devills , as the twelve apostles . . christ sent out , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , also other seventie , ergo , as hee gave a calling to the twelve , so hee did to these seventie , and the same pa●●orall commission is given to them . behold , i send you &c. luk. . , , , . . the seventie are called workmen , sent out to the lords harvest , luk. . . and the same is said of shepheards in office , matth. . , , . to whom wages are due , as to pastors in office , cor. . , . gal. . . tim. . . . it is said by christ of these seventie , he that heareth you heareth me , he that despiseth you despiseth me . ergo , they were ambassadors in christs stead , as pastors in office are , cor. . . the samaritane woman ( saith robinson ) job . . . preached , and many of the samaritans beleeved because of her , v. . and without preaching of the word of god , none can beleeve , rom. . , . if a woman may teach without the church , then may a man teach in the church . answ. . a woman may teach . . in a non-constituted church , where there is no salvation , and they worship they know not what , joh. . . . a woman may occasionally declare one point of the gospel , that maries sonne is christ ; but hence it followeth not , therefore , a man , in a constituted church , may ordinarily preach the whole gospell to the church in publick : a weake sparre for so vast a roofe . . he abuseth the place , rom. . . and would hence prove that a woman or any gifted teacher , is a sent preacher by whom faith ordinarily commeth ; for otherwayes who dare deny but faith commeth by reading ? and just as the catechise of raecovia exponeth the place , rom. . . to evert the necessitie of a sent ministery , so doth robinson expone the place . robinson , act. . , , , . act. . , . all the churches were scattered abroad , except the apostles , and those who were scattered , preached every where the gospell , ergo , disciples out of office may lawfully preach the gospel . answ. whether these of the scattered church , who preached , were the seventie disciples , as learned divines thinke , i dispute not ; but that they were prophets out of office , the text saith not . but that they were extraordinarily gifted prophets who preached , i conceive the text doth insinuate , for it is said , act. . . the hand of the lord was with them , the very word which is , ezek. . . the hand of the lord was strong with me . . in a scattered and dissolved church , gifted persons may prophesie , ergo , in a constituted church gifted persons are the ordinary and onely ministers of conversion , though they bee never called to the office , it doth no wayes follow . robinson saith , it is not reasonable to think that they were all extraordinary prophets , and that if they were immediately inspired , there had beene no need of so speedy sending of barnabas from hierusalem to antioch with supply , though he were a man full of the holy ghost , for ●● were such prophets as well as ●ee , ephes. . . and . . answ. wee doe not affirme , that all and every one of the church , even women and children were extraordinarily gifted , but whether their gift was ordinary or extraordinary , the text doth not say that they were prophets out of office , and the law of disputing saith , affirmanti incumbit probatio ; the hand of god was with them , as it useth to bee with prophets . . they travelled as farre as phenice , cyprus and antioch , preaching the word of the lord , this is that which the apostolick planters of churches did , as master builders , laying the foundation of churches , and calvin calleth them ministers , planters of the gospel . nor is it like that prophets not in office , would so travell and preach the gospel to the gentile ●s and calvin saith , singulari dei impulsu hoc factum , and that many were turned unto the lord. . barnabas saw the grace of god in them . . and exhorted them that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the lord , ergo , there was grace and a profession visible of cleaving to the lord , before barnabas came , and so a founded church ; and if it had beene done by gifted christians of ordinary gifts , and wanting the spirit of prophecy , the work had been the more illustrious , and it would not have beene concealed , yea and helpe in so great an harvest by barnabas an apostolick man , was very needfull , the number being so great of those who were converted to the faith , seeing the great apostles sought helpe , and paul tooke titus and timothy with him often , for helping the worke of the lord. the next scripture ( saith robinson ) is pet. . , . as every man hath received the gift , so let him minister as good stewards of the manifold graces of god ; if any man speake , let him speake as the oracles of god. answ. this saith with us , for private christians are not stewards ; who gave them the keyes ? yea cor. . . it is a word of office , and it is not given to ministers not in office , as beza observeth well ; he setteth downe one generall , that the ministers be ready to distribute , and then two species . preaching ministers , that they speake the oracles of god. . serving ministers , elders and deacons , that they minister out of the habilitie that god giveth them ; and the place is against private prophets . robinson alledgeth , revel . . . i will give power to my two witnesses , and they shall prophecy a thousand two hundreth and sixtie dayes , clothed in sackcloth . the clergie men are not onely witnesses against the antichrist . in the antichrists raigne , no church officer , a● an● officer , witnesseth against him , but all for him , as both having their authority from him , and binding themselves to submit their doctrine to his censure . the persons indeed that were officers , even masse-priests , monkes , and friers , witnessed some of them against him , but so did not their office , something was extraordinary , i acknowledge , in respect of the then prevailing order , and in respect of their degree of gifts and graces , but no extraordinary and miraculous gift of prophecying : and brightman exponeth the two witnesses to bee the holy scriptures and assemblies of the faithfull . answ. the two witnesses ( saith a junius ) are the ministers , for number , few , and for place , contemptible , so saith couper ; b and c paraeus induceth many paires of witnesses , as in bohemia , john hus , and jerome of prague , an. , . in saxonie , luther and melancthon ; in argentine bucer and cariton ; in helvetia , zwinglius and oecolampadius ; in france , farell , and calvin , and these were pastors in office . we need not stand upon the number of two , but because two is the least and fewest number , the witnesses were two . but first there is no reason to fetter and restrict the text , to witnesses and martyrs out of office , excluding the ministers and prophets in office , and to inferre thence that gifted persons in a constitute church are the ordinary ministers of conversion . . these two witnesses did prophecie in the midst of popish babylon , where god had no visible church . they did upon a particular exigence , being called thereunto as the martyrs of christ , to give a witnesse for christ against antichrist , and they sealed the truth with their blood : but the consequence is null , a martyr at the stake , though no pastor , may give a confession of his faith , to the persecutors , as stephen did . therefore a gifted person not in office , may ordinarily preach in the church . i would not buy such logick with a rotten nut . . many women were witnesses and martyrs , and gave a testimony against antichrist ; ergo women may preach in the church : what vanitie is this ? . also if those witnesses had an extraordinary measure of gifts and graces to beare witnesse to the truth , it followeth not ; ergo , christians gifted with an ordinary measure of the spirit are ordinary prophets for the conversion of soules . . though these witnesses were only unofficed prophets , yet the prophecying ascribed to them , after they arose from the dead , will not inferre that unofficed prophets are ordinarily to preach , for the rising againe of slaine prophets is not to be exponed of the raising againe of the persons of unofficed prophets to preach , but it is to be exponed of the rising againe of the buried gospel ; which in the ministery of faithfull pastors and in other new martyrs , pastors and others arose againe from the dead , with the spirit and power of these martyrs , and that buried truth , that was in former times persecuted by antichrist did now revive againe to the wondering of babylon ; for the intent of the spirit is to show that the gospel , and true church , slaine and buried , shall arise againe within a short time , as three dayes and a halfe . . it is vaine that he saith none of the clergy witnessed and prophecied against antichrist ; he is not versed in the churches history who teacheth so , for monkes and fryars were ministers , ( though their office unlawfull ) and as ministers of christ. luther , melancthon , and thousands other gave testimony against antichrist . robinson addeth , revel . . . where an angell flyeth in the midst of heaven , that is , in the visible church , having the everlasting gospell to preach to them that dwell on the earth , and to every nation and kinred . that is , god raised men in the midst of popery , not miraculously inspired ( for you can show me no such ) who preached the gospel , not by vertue of an office ; the office of a friar , monk , or mass●-priest , is no ministery of christs appointment ; and when they gave their clearest testimony , they were almost all excluded out of rome , and so in respect of their personall gifts and graces , they were angels of god , in respect of their office , they were angels of antichrist . answ. . there is no reason to reject the interpretation of d junius , that this angell was a type of the servants of god , who opposed popery after the times of bonifacius the eight , as cassiodorus the italian , arnoldus de villa nova , occam , dante 's , petrarcha , ioann●s de rupe the franciscan , wickliff ; and pareus e refers the type to wickliffe , marsilius patavinus , petrarcha ; our country man f napper exponeth it of luther , melancthon , and calvin in the seventh age , anno , and it is false that they were all excommunicated , and though the accident of their office , to be a monke , a fryar , was antichristian , yet the ministery it selfe was of christ , and by it they did preach against antichrist , as they did validely baptize , for i hope they did not baptize as unofficed prophets . lastly , this angel did not preach in the visible church , but in the midst of popery , and therefore doth not prove it is lawfull in a true visible constituted church , for gifted prophets out of office , to bee ordinary preachers . robinson much urgeth the place , cor. . because the apostle speaketh of the manifestation of the gifts and graces common to all , as well brethren as ministers , ordinary as extraordinary . . hee speaketh of the fruits common to all , edification , exhortation , and comfort , compared with , thess. . . . and of that which at all times remaineth amongst the christians , to wit , love . answ. the cohesion of this chapter with the former is cleare , charitie should be followed , because so excellent . therefore cover gifts , which are most conducing to love and edification , and that is to prophecie ; he proveth excellencie of prophecying above others , and teacheth in this chapter the right ordering of publick church meeting . now robinsons argument is this , if it stand good , as many as may love one another , and may edifie , exhort and comfort one another , may expresse their love by publick prophecying , for edification in love : but all christians , even such as are not in church-state , nor officers , are to love one another , to edifie , exhort and comfort one another . ergo. the proposition is most false ; women are obliged to love one another , and to exhort and edifie one another , prov. . . til. . . yet can they not prophesie in the church , cor. . , . yea excommunicated persons are not loosed from the duties of love and mutuall rebuking in private , if they may bee exhorted as brethren , thess. . . they may exhort and rebuke others , levit. . . which the law of nature requireth , yea peter as a pastor out of love to christ is to preach , ioh. . . , . but therefore private christians are not obliged to pastorall preaching , and administration of the seales , which are expressions of the love of christ , yet to administer sacraments is an act of edification , is therefore every act of edification and love common to all , because to love , and in some private way , to edifie all , is incumbent as a dutie to all ? nay a king out of love of christ , should governe gods people , a captaine fight gods battells , a sea man saile , & a professor teach in the schooles ; will it follow , because to love one another is common , that all private men may bee kings , may kill men in battell , and that the plowman should saile and invade the mariners calling ? this were anabaptisticall confusion of places and callings , and should evert states , places , charges and callings , and overturne church and state , and make the church an old chaos ; the god of order hath not so ordered callings and places . but ( saith the man ) if the end , which is edification and comfort , continueth , therefore the gift of prophecying continueth . answ. . prophecying continueth , who taketh it out of the world ? it continueth in such , as god hath set in the church for that end and use , cor. . . but not in all , and every plowman , who in his place is obliged to edifie . . the argument is also weake , that continueth , the end whereof continueth , forso circumcision , passeover , sacrificing , the end of all which was edifying , should continue in the church : mr. yates answered to him , extraordinary gifts , as strange tongues , miracles , are for edification , yet they continue not . mr. robinson answereth to him , strange tongues and the office of the ministery doe not properly edifie , but the use of strange tongues . i answer , there doth much weaknesse here appeare , love in mr. robinsons breast doth not edifie , nor his habit of prophecying , but the acts of expressions of love , and the use of prophecying , edifieth , and for that cause wee may well say that the office doth edifie there being ( saith robinson ) no other meanes to edifie , exhort , and comfort , left in the church , but propbecying , paul argueth from the common grace of love , as well upon brethren as officers , to ordinary , as to extraordinary , and at all times prophecying , that all out of office may prophesie to the worlds end , if they have gifts . answ. is there no meanes to edifie , exhort , and comfort , but prophecying ? and that prophecying publick in the church and pastorall ? that is denyed , what say you of private and domestick exhorting , praying , praysing , reading , and christian conference , coloss. . . mal. . . zach. . . are not they singular meanes of edifying ? hath christ left no meanes of edifying , exhorting , and comforting , but the publick prophecying of clothiers , mariners , fashioners ? . faith commeth by hearing of a sent minister , rom. . . it pleased god by preaching , of sent pastors , cor. . . . to save those who beleeve . robinson . argu. v. . you may all prophesie , that all may learne , that all may be comforted ; be speakes of prophecying of all , as largely as of learning of all , according to the received rule of exponing the notes of universalitie . answ. women , ungifted brethren , infidels in the church , by his owne grant , may learne , but they may not prophesie in the church , ergo , many more are to learne then may prophesie : and the one ( all ) is narrower then the other , for all are not prophets , cor . . therefore all may not prophesie in one and the same verse , cor. . v. . and isa. . v. . the notes of universalitie , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( wee all ) are taken divers wayes ; yea one and the same word applyed to divers subjects is taken divers wayes , as sam. . . and the people greatly feared the lord and samuel ; and my sonne ( saith the wise man ) seare the lord and the king. prov. . . mr. yates said well , all ought to have the gift of hearing , but not of prophecying . robinson answereth , every particular person is not bound to have the gift of prophecying , but if he speake to purpose , he must say , that no ordinary brethren out of office ought to have the gift of praphesie , which if it be true , then ought none to strive for fitnesse to become officers , neither were that reproofe just , heb. . . answ. he speaketh to purpose , to destroy your argument , which you destroy your selfe , while as you grant , many may learne who may not prophecie . . hee may say truely , no ordinary brethren out of office , but purposed to remaine artificers , are to strive for fitnesse to the office of ministery ; but many out of office may have the gift of prophecying , who are not prophets ; and you grant , i thinke , many are gifted to be kings , who neither are kings , nor may lawfully exercise acts of royall majestie , without treason both to god and their king : for the place , heb. . . the apostle rebukes the hebrewes , both officers and people as dull of hearing , whereas they ought to bee teachers of others , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , ( as you expone it ) prophets out of office , who ought to prophesie publickly to the edifying of the church . but take home this argument thus . those whom the apostle rebuketh as dull of hearing , who ought to bee teachers and unofficed prophets , are obliged to be indeed such prophets ; for a rebuke is for the omission of a morall dutie which wee are oblieged to doe , or for the committing the contrary , but he rebuketh teachers in office , women , children , and ungifted brethren as dull as hearing , for that they ought to be prophets & were not , ergo , all , even teachers in office , women , children and ungifted brethren ought to be prophets not in office . now the conclusion is absurd and against your selfe , for you say , pag. . every particular person in the church is not bound to have the gift of prophecying , women are not bound i am sure , yet are women rebuked for being dull of hearing , and for that they ought to be teachers of others , and were not . . hence it is cleare that you corrupt the word of god , and to be teachers , in that place , is to be such , as so aboundeth in the knowledge of god , as to teach , rebuke , admonish , and comfort mutually one another in a private way , not to preach publikely in the church , for the ordinary conversion of soules , for which sort of prophets you do contend . robinson addeth . the apostle cannot meane extraordinary prophets , cor. . there could not bee such a number of extraordinary prophets , now when extraordinary prophets were beginning to cease in the church . answ. . when the church of corinth abounded in every thing , in all knowledge , and utterance , and came behind in no gift , cor. . . . and so much grace was given them in jesus christ , v. . it is cleare there were abundance of prophets even then in corinth . . it is not to purpose for lay-prophets whether they were ordinary or extraordinary prophets . they were prophets as the spirit of god calleth them , cor. . . set in the church as officers , even as apostles , and governors , and teachers , who are officers . and there is no reason that you should impose significations on words , at your owne pleasure , without warrant of the word . now shew us in all the old , or new testament , when the word prophet signifieth a naked gifted man out of office , in the lords house , for you have as good warrant for you to say there were lay-apostles , lay-teachers , lay-governors , who were gifted persons not in office , as you have for lay-prophets . . multitude of prophets may consist with the time , when seers and foretellers of things revealed in visions were beginnings to cease , even as the gifts of the holy ghost given abundantly at the pentecost , act. . . . ioel . . did consist with the time when things concerning christ must now have an end , luk. . . luk. . . robinsons . argument is . the apostle in forbidding women to prophesie in the church , licenceth men . . the apostle in , and for the worke , opposeth the men to the women , sexe to sexe , and in forbidding women , hee must license men , when the holy ghost opposeth faith and workes in the cause of justification and denyeth that we are justified by workes , is not then the consequence good , we are justified by faith ? . if in prohibiting women he gave not libertie to men , where were the prerogative of men above women , which is the onely ground upon which hee buildeth the prohibition ? . ver. . . women are not permitted to speake in the church , yet may they speake to their husbands at home ; now if the husbands might not speake in the church more then the women , what reason can be rendred of the apostle his so speaking ? . the apostle in the whole chapter , taketh order that some should prophesie in the church , and debarring women therefrom , he must either admit men , or then we have a third sort of persons to prophesie , who are neither men , nor women . answ. here is a great noyse of arguments for just nothing , and a faire sophisme , concluding that secundum quid , which should be concluded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; for we deny not but some men in office are permitted , yea and commanded to prophesie in publick ; and we grant that sex and sex are opposed , but the opposition made by robinson is creeple and throwne-backed , for all and every one of mankind are not permitted to prophesie , as all and every woman is forbidden to prophesie or teach in the church ; by the lawes of france a woman may not sit on the throne and sway the scepter ; but friend , can you say then the lawes of france doth license any frenchman whatsoever he be to sit on the throne and be king ? mr. robinson proveth men are licensed to preach , sed indefinita propositio in materia contingente ●quipollet particulari , but he knoweth all men are not licenced to prophesie in publick , for ungifted men are not sent of god , and we say , neither all gifted tradesmen , never called by the church , nor educated in schooles , or sent of god to preach in the church . this he covereth and proveth never , onely he setteth downe foure armies of arguments to prove , i know not what , to prove forsooth that men may prophesie in publike , and not women , but who denyeth that ? and the similitude of faith and workes crooketh here , for saving faith is opposed to all good workes whatsoever , both in kind and individualls , for wee are neither justified by good workes in specie , nor by any one good worke in individuo , but though all women be debarred from teaching in the church , yet are not all men licensed to teach in the church , but onely those ( say we ) who are called of god , as was aaron . . i would bandy the argument thus ; it is not permitted to women to administer the sacraments , ergo , it is permitted for any man , though not a prophet by office , to administer the sacraments . the antecedent is pauls , the consequence is yours ; and so all these foure arguments prove not what is in question , to with that ; ergo , a gifted person not in office may preach publickly . mr. robinson addeth , in restrayning women he sheweth his meaning to be of ordinary , not of extraordinary prophets , because women immediatly and extraordinarily inspired , might speak without restraint , exod. . . jud. . . luk. . . act. . , . answ. robinson cannot show that the same kind of prophecying in women , v. . is taxed by paul , which is regulated in men , v. , , . and therefore that connexion is denied , hee restraineth women from ordinary prophecying in the temple , ergo he speaketh of the ordinary prophecying of men ; for , . he compareth prophecying with tongues , extraordinary with extraordinary , and he desireth them to covet to prophesie , ordinary he cannot meane , for in all the word you find not private professors are commanded to desire to bee ordinary prophets , for so god should command them to pray , that they might leave their callings and stations , contrary to cor. . . and give themselves to study sciences and tongues : for if the holy ghost command the meanes , he must command the end , and if hee command the end , hee must command the meanes . but v. . he setteth downe a new canon about women who tooke on them to prophesie publickly , and hee inhibiteth so much as ordinary prophecying , yea so much as speaking in the church ; and i deny not but a irenaeus , b eusebius , yea and tertullian , cyrill , chrysostome , theophylactus , with warrant teach , that alwayes women extraordinarily inspired may prophesie , for in that god immediately exalteth them above men . but for ordinary prophecying in publick , it is of morall equitie , and perpetuall , that the women should not teach , for adam was first formed ; this paul bringeth as a morall argument against womens preaching . his fourth argument is from and . verses . let the prophets speake two or three , and let the rest judge . the apostle cannot ( saith robinson ) speake of extraordinary prophets , for they cannot erre , but are infallible ; but the prophets here spoken of are not infallible , because they are to be censured , and their doctrine judged by the prophets : now if such could erre , our faith were not immediately builded upon the doctrine of the prophets and apostles . answ. this is before examined by me , the consequence is null , for the holy spirit ( saith pareus ) did not dite all things which the prophets spake , they might have mixed in some thing of their owne . robinson saith , that paul could not have said , ( if any thinke himselfe to be a prophet , &c. let such an one acknowledge that the thing i wrote are the commandements of the lord ) if these had beene extraordinary prophets , they should have knowne pauls writings undoubtedly to have beene the canonick word of god , and could not have beene ignorant thereof . answ. this presupponeth that these extraordinary prophets might have beene ignorant , that the apostles commandements was the commandements of the lord , which is not absurd , for nathan and samuel were ignorant of gods will in some points , for prophets see and know sometimes as men , and sometimes as prophets , in the former they may erre , in the latter they are infallible . he subjoyneth . the word of god came it to you , or came it from you ? if the word of god came after a sort to the corinthians , and not from them , then were they not immediatly and extraordinarily inspired , whereas indeed the word of god came from the apostles . answ. this proveth not the point , for hee condemneth the arrogancie of some immediately inspired prophets , came the word of god from you ? that is , are yee above the apostle to whom the word of god was committed , that it may bee preached to all the world , that it might come from the apostles to others ? or came it to you onely , as to the only apostolick teachers , that you neede no admonition ? but hence it followeth not , but they were extraordinarily inspired prophets , for peter might be rebuked , though an apostle & a chief one . neither is it any imputation to paul , or to any who hath received the spirit in measure , to be censured . it is true , canonick doctrine , as it is such , cannot be censured , but the teachers thereof , though infallible , even paul , act. . , . and every spirit is to bee tried , whether they be of god or no , joh. . . yea to say that the church cannot be builded upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles ( as mr. robinson saith , pag. . ) if these prophets extraordinary can erre , or can bee subject to the censure and judgement of the church , is the very argument of papists ; for they say , that the word of god borroweth authoritie quoad nos , in respect of us , from the church , and is to be beleeved , because peter , paul , the prophets and apostles , the then present church , say it is the word of god. so a stapleton ( as whittakerne teacheth ) that christ was the sonne of god , dependeth to our faith upon the testimony of john baptist. see bellarmine , gregorius de valent. gretser ; so three famous commentators say , b jansenius , c cardinalis cajetan , and d cardinalis toletus . but our divines answer , that the word of god is true in it selfe , and the authentick ground of our faith , not because the prophets and apostles say it is the word of god , not because paul or an angel from heaven saith it is so , gal. . . for even the prophets and apostles were but men , and so their testimony not infallible , but because god himselfe saith so . see for this e rivetus , f whittakerus , g bucerus , h calvinus , yea and the fathers most expressely say , that the prophets and apostles are not the foundation of our faith , nor their word , because they were infallible , but gods word , by their mouths and penne . so i thea●●●lact , k chrysostome , l beda , m ambrosius , n occam , and o gerson doe roundly acknowledge that their popes word is not the foundation of faith , quia papa potest hereti●ari , because the pope may erre . what ? because samuel was deceived in calling eliah the lords annointed , are not his bookes a part of canonick doctrine , whereupon our faith is builded ? lastly saith p robinson , pastors must preach and pray before they hee put in office , otherwise they cannot bee tr●ed , if they bee apt to teach , as they must be , tim. . . tit. . . it is decreed that all may preach , q ministers , teachers , elders , deacons , and if there beam , ex ipsa plebe , any of the common people , who would imploy their gift for the good of the church , and it is practised in the colledges , where all must preach , though they were never priests . answ. . it is lawfull , that these ayming at the office ; . brought up in humane sciences ; . called by the church preach , by way of tryall , before they be admitted to the office : but hence it cannot be concluded , that tradesmen and artificersvoyd of learning and ignorant of the scriptures should preach , not for try all , or as ayming at the office of the ministery , but as ordinary ministers of the conversion of soules to the faith , and that without any calling of the church either to the office , or to the degree preparatorie to the office . . all gifted should preach , yea and in england ought to bee put in office , where there is a reading ministery which christ never ordained to bee in his house , and this the harmony of confession and synods teach , and no more . it is a fault that in colledges all doe preach , whether christ hath called them , or not ; such unsent runners mr. robinson cannot approve . r ambrose saith at the beginning it was granted that all should preach , and baptize , that the church might grow ; and s origen said the same . but otherwise t hieronymus saith , it is praesumptio temeritatis , a rash presumption for any to preach , who are not sent ; and u theophylact calleth them false prophets ; x augustine will have them all to come before christ , and so to bee theeves and robbers who commeth not sent , sicut moses & prophet● , as moses and the prophets were sent . y coachman saith , if preaching be tyed to the ministery , and that order , there shall neither bee faith nor grace in a church where there is no ministery . answ. it followeth not , for faith may come by reading , by conference , and you expone , rom. . . as arminians and socinians doe . . we as embassadors pray you in christs stead to be reconciled , cor. . . ephes. . . cor. . . are all prophets ? ergo , would you say no reconciliation in a land without apostolick ambassadors ? it followeth not , ex negatione unius medii , for then there should be no grace , nor salvation , where there be none of your lay-preachers . coachman . knowledge , judgement , utterance , with gravitie , authoritie , power , maketh a man a minister , whether he be in office or not ; preaching is accidentall to the office , and no part of the office , but onely an ornament or appendix of it , a minister is in full office of the order of priesthood , though he never preach ; an office maketh not a preacher , it maketh him onely such a peoples preacher , when they have chosen him , hee preacheth by vertue of his gift , not by vertue of his office . answ. . here are socinian mysteries revealed , z gerardus saith , by this meane the heretickes called pepuziani permitted , in the primitive church , to women , the ministery of the sacraments . and upon this ground the socinians and anabaptists proceeded , that except a man would digge his talent in the earth , hee may preach , though he have not a calling of the church ; so doth mr. coachman make talents , as judgement and utterance , enough to constitute one a minister , whether he be called to the office , or not . and gerardus setteth downe a good answer of a luther to the argument . god giveth talents , but to those whom hee calleth , therefore gifted men should in the use of their calling attend and accept the calling of god. it may be the church perversly set , denyeth a calling to one who is gifted . then i say , let him use his talent in private . god reapeth not where he doth not sow . . this is a wild saying , a man is a minister whether he be in office or not . a ministery is essentially an office , or a place that the lord hath called a man unto , else define what an officer is , and how can he expone that , rom. . . how can they preach except they he sent ? if as our divines doe ? then none are sent , but such as are called to the office , and this is against him , if as s●ini●ns say , all gifted men are sent of god to preach , then gifts essentially constituteth a sent man , and what is a sent man , ●ut a man called to the office ? . preaching is accidentall to the office of a man that maketh court and the world his conscience , it is true indeed , but that preaching is accidentall to the office of a pastor , is popish and prelaticall ; for what is essentiall to the office ? to administer the sacrament and consecrate the body of christ ? well said for the popish cause . b pope eugenius in his decree and the councell of florentine teach us , that the essential forme of the office of the priests is in these words , receive power to offer a sacrifice in the church , for the living and the dead : for saith c scotus and the councell of d trent teach us , that all the essentials of the priesthood be in two . ● . in a power to consecrate christs body , and this is given in the last supper . . in a power to absolve a sinner , so saith e meratius the jesuite , where the reader shall observe silence of preaching the word , and f bellarmine saith the same ; g gulielmus eslius saith , the essentiall and most principall worke of the priest is to offer christs body , and then to absolve from sinnes , and this they have from their h master aquin●s , and further warrant for a priest essentially dumbe , you may find in suarez , and vasquez doth collect from i the fainzed canons of the apostles from k clemens his epistles , such a priest. i desire ( if preaching be accidentall to the office of a pastor ) to know if feeding of the people , act. . . and ●eeding the flock , ezekiel , . . be all in administring of the sacrament . it is strange , if a watchman as as a watchman , and by office , should not preach and give warning , ezek. . , . if an ambassadour , as an ambassadour , in christs stead should not pray the people to be reconciled to god , cor. . . if a pastor , as a pastor , should not feed the flocke with knowledge , jer. . ● . . if as a workeman and a minister he should not divide the word aright , tim. . . if as a fisher he should not catch men ; but of this enough . lastly , cor. . v. . christ sent mee not to baptize , but to preach , joh. . . christ baptized none , but was sent to preach , luk. . . chap. . sect. . the way of church judging in new england . vve doe not ( saith the author ) carry matters either by an over-ruling power of the presbytery , nor by the consent of the major part of the church , but by the generall and joynt consent of all the members of the church , and we are of one accord as the church of christ should be , act. . if any disassent out of ignorance , we labour to bring him to our mind , by sound information . . if by pride bee disassent , the libertie of his voyce is taken from him . if , . the matter be difficill , we seeke advice of sister churches . answ. unitie is much to be desired in the church with veritie , but your way we understand not . nor doe we in our synods carry matters by the major and maniest voices , because they are maniest , nor because they are the the voice of men , but because the thing concluded is agreeable to the word of god : but what if the church be divided , and the people ( upon whose voyces principally the conclusion of the church dependeth ) goe against both the truth and the elders ? they answer , these are miserable mistakes , either to thinke that the people or elders must needs disassent , or that except they all consent , there can be no rule ? i answer , it is a miserable necessitie , through the corruption of our nature , not a mistake ; for simon magus , and fortie like to him , in a church consisting of threescore , must dissent from twentie , whose hearts are streight in the truth : you have no refuge here , but let the maniest carry the matter to a mischiefe , and the other twentie must separate , and make a new church presently . againe say i , what if the church differ ? they answer , that ought not to bee , nor will it bee , if the church will lay aside corrupt judgement and affections , and if they attend the rule , and depend upon christ , considering the promises made to the church , jer. . . zech. . . matth. . . but if such a thing fall out , as not often it doth , if the elders and major part consent , and one disassent ; it is either of corrupt affection , and pride , and so he ioseth his voyce , or of weaknesse , and then he is to submit his judgement to the church . answ. but to beginne at your last , if one out of weaknesse disassent , he is to submit his judgement to the church . but i say , what if forty out of weaknesse disassent from twenty , may not that whole church as well submit to a synod , as act. . as one must submit his judgement to a church ? the conscience of one should no more be fettered , then the consciences of a whole church . . i grant the maniest should have scripture , but what if they say the scripture , yea and the apostles are with them , when there is no such thing , as the case was act. . . the wrong side alleadged scripture and the apostles commandement , when the apostles gave no such commandement , should you not take gods remedy to appeale to a synod , as the apostolike church doth ? act. . . they answer , in our churches hitherto , the major part , yea all mind one thing , as rom. . . cor. . . act. . . i answer , . that is because they are in church-government all one , and a conspiracy in error , is but seeming unity . but . i say , good men as paul and barnabas will differ . but . what if all be wrong of three parts , as cor. . . some said , i am of paul , some , i am of apollo , some , i am of christ ; all the three were wrong , in that case , doth not a synod by the word of god determine the matter best ? certainly , though synods may erre , yet are they of themselves christs lawfull way to preserve veritie and charity and unity . but our brethren answer us , divisions ought not to be , and they will not but all agree in the truth , if the church will lay aside corrupt judgement , and depend on christ , considering the promises made to the church , jer. . ephes. . . matth. . let me answer , there is much more charity in this answer , then verity . . they ought not to disassent from truth : true , but what then ? the remedy is not given except you returne to a synod ; the division , act. . ought not to be ; the house should not be fired : true , but the question is how shall water be had to quench it , for many things are , which ought not to be . . ( neither will divisions be , ) that is false , cor. . . . as heresies must be , so scandals must be , our author saith ( they will not be ; they will not be ) ( say the brethren ) if the church lay aside corrupt judgement , and affection , and attend upon the rule , and depend on christ. i answer . there is but vanity , and no solidity ( i crave pardon ) in this answer , it is the vaine answer of arminius in the case of the saints perseverance . the regenerate ( say they ) cannot fall away if they be not inlaking to gods grace , and if they in holy feare take heed to their wayes , so saith a arminius in his declaration ; and in his b answer to perkins : so also c say the arminians in their confession , and d episcopius . but what is this , but regenerate persons shall persevere , upon condition that they shall persevere ? for not to be inlaking to the grace of god , is to cooperate to the grace of god , or with the grace of god , and to cooperate with the grace of god is very perseverance it selfe ; for saith the e the wicked socinus , and f smalcius , and so say our brethren , all shall agree in the truth , if they lay aside corrupt judgement . and what is that , if they lay aside corrupt judgement ? that is , if they agree with the truth , and assent to the word of god. but so it is , that the best regenerate , even barnabas , a man full of the holy ghost , act. . doth not lay aside corrupt judgement . but our brethren proveth they will law aside corrupt judgement ; but how ? you alleadge the papists abused scriptures , ier. . god promiseth to put his spirit and feare in his church , that they shall not depart from the lord. true ( say i ) they shall not depart from god , providing they lay aside corrupt judgement , as you teach us . but doe you not teach us by your answer to elude these pregnant places , which unanswerably prove the necessity of the perseverance of the regenerated ? but . what though god promise to put his feare in the heart of the regenerate ? this promise is not made to the visible church conveened in a synod , as it is such , nor will it prove that a synod shall all agree in the truth , & that the whole church shall lay aside corrupt judgement , except you serve your selves with these and the like places , as papists , and by name as bellarmine , g●etserus , snarez , bucanus , stapleton , gregorius de valentia doe serve themselves with them , and the like , to prove that councels are in fallible . what is said in the fourth section anent the power of the people in church-govern●●●● is already examined , onely in the closure thereof , they seeme to give something peculiar to the elders , which the people have not , which i discusse in the insuing question . quest. viii . what peculiar auhority is in the eldership , for the which they are over the people , in the lord , according to the doctrine of our brethren ? we hold that christ hath given a superiority to pastors and overseers in his house , whereby they are , by office , government , and power of the keyes , above the people . but . this authority is limited , and conditionall , not absolute , as if they may doe what they please . . it is a power ministeriall , not a dominion ; for as meere servants and ambassadours of christ , they doe but declare the will and commandement of the king of kings . . when this authority is not exercised by the precise rule and prescript of the law of god , it is not valid , but null , and of no force . . they are so above the people , as . they are their servants , for christs sake , cor. . . yea we are their servants servants : not as if the people had a dominion over the pastors , or as if they had their authority from the people , they have it immediately from christ , but because all their service is for the good , and the salvation of the people . . they have so superiority , as they are subject to the prophets to be judged , and censured by the church representative of pastors , doctors and elders . it will be found that our brethren give no authority or superiority to the eldership above the people . in their answers to the . questions . we acknowledge ( say they ) a presbytery , whose worke it is , to teach and rule , and whom the people ought to obey , and condemne a meere popular government , such as our writers condemne in morellius . answ. so say our brethren in their doctrine , we acknowledge that the people , and gifted men not in office , should teach , and all the faithfull is the governing church , to which christ hath committed the keyes , and power of ordination , and highest church censures , even excmmunication , and that the elders should obey the church of beleevers . ergo , in teaching and ●uling you acknowledge no presbytery . . seeing you ordaine the elders to be ordained by the imposition of the peoples hands , to be elected , called , censured , excommunicated , exauthorited , shew us why the people are not the rulers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the elders ruled . . the key of knowledge is a chiefe part of the keyes , and these keyes by which sinnes are remitted and retained , and men bound or loosed on earth and heaven : and seeing morellius , anabaptists , and your selves teach that these keyes were given to the whole church of beleevers , how doe you thinke that people are not in teaching , overseers as properly as the elders , and that your government is meerely popular , as morellius taught ? to say nothing that when you deny your government to be meerely popular , you doe not deny , but it is popular ; for a government meerely popular admitteth of publike men to rule for the people , and we never read of a government in athens , lacedemonia , or any where , in the which all the people did actually judge , rule , and command , and so was meerely popular . but the word of god giveth a reall superiority to the pastors and church guides over the people in the lord , as jer. . . so i have set thee this day over the nations , and over the kingdomes , to roote out , and to pull downe , and to destroy , and to throw down , to build and to plant , here is a reall authority given to jeremiah , onely by his office of his prophecying , without any power of the seales or sacrificing , or judging , or governing , which was the part of the tribe of levi , of which tribe jeremiah was not , matth. . v. . he who receiveth you , receiveth me , luke . . he that heareth you , heareth me , he that despiseth you , despiseth me , and he that despiseth me , despiseth him that sent me , john . . cor. . . for though i should boast something of the authority which the lord hath given us for edisication , and not for your destruction , i should not be ashamed , cor. . . let a man so account of us , as of the ministers of christ , and of the stewards of the mysteries of god , john . . whose soever sinnes yee remit , they are remitted , and whose sinnes yee retaine , they are retained , cor. . . and he hath given to us the word of reconciliation , . now then wee are ambassadours for christ , cor. . . and god hath set some in the church , first apostles , secondly prophets , &c. eph. . . and he gave some apostles , &c. thes. . . and we beseech you brethren to know them which labour among you , and are over you in the lord , and admonish you , heb. . . obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your soules , as they that must give an account , acts . . take heed therefore unto your selves , and to all the flocke over which the lord hath made you overseers , to feed the church of god , which he hath purchased with his owne bloud , pet. . . feed the flock of god , which is among you , taking the over-sight thereof , not by constraint , &c. tim. . . a bishop then must be blamelesse , &c. . one that ruleth well his owne house , &c. tim. . . let the elders that rule well , be counted worthy of double honour , v. . . tim. . v. , , , , , , . tit. . , , . . the lord in his house , putteth a difference betwixt the feeders , and the flocke , the governours , and the governed ; those who are over the people in the lord , and those who are under them in the lord ; the overseers and watchmen , and the city over which they watch ; the stewards , and the family ; therefore there must be a peculiar authority in those who are elders . . the flock is to obey , heare , follow , in the lord , to have the elders in high estimation , to submit to their doctrine , to receive them as christ ; ergo , some authority they must have . . the lord hath given to them an over-sight , act. . . and hath committed to them a ministery , cor. . . hath put them in his worke and ministery , tim. . . . god will seeke an account of the bloud of the lost at their hand , ezech. . . heb. . . and god giveth a reward for the discharge of their office , pet. . . tim. matth. . v. . . ergo , they must have a place of authority over the people , which the people have not . . the proportion betwixt the priesthood in the old testament , and the ministery of reconciliation which is more excellent and glorious , cor. . , . requireth the same . now the lord in a peculiar manner choosed the tribe of levi , deut. . , . esay . . num. . . v. . ch . . v. . separate the levites to me , ch . . . josh. . . chron. . . josh. . . . but let our author speake what peculiar authority , or what singular acts of authority are due to the elders above the people . the church ( saith he ) exerciseth severall acts of authoritie over the elders . . in calling and electing them to office , and ordaining them in defect of the presbytery . i answer . . calling and electing are not to be confounded ; electing is no act of authority ; but that the people calleth and ordaineth the elders , wanteth example in the word of god , and therefore the author addeth , that the people ordaineth the elders in defect of their presbytery , that is , where there is no presbytery ; then in case of extraordinary necessitie , and where the church is not constituted , they are to ordaine the elders , but in a constitute church , the power of ordination is in the presbytery ; ergo , ordinarily the people doe not exercise this authoritie over the elders . . the church of beleevers , saith the author , sendeth forth the elders for the publick service of the church ; as the whole church of jerusalem sent forth chosen ministers , with letters of instruction to antioch , and to other churches , act. . . now the ambassadour is not greater then he that sent him , but usually inferiour , joh. . . answ. . i deny not , but a church of beleevers in the least congregation is greater then any pastor , or number of pastors , as they are such ; for the pastors are servants for the church , and meanes for the end , and lesse and inferior in respect of christian dignity , but this is not the point , wee doe not now dispute of christian dignitie , one redeemed soule in that respect is of more worth then a thousand pastors as they are but meere pastors , but because the church sendeth the elders , the elders are a part , and a great part of the visible church , which also send themselves ; but it proveth not the peoples church authority , as they are contradistinguished from elders to be superior and above the authority of elders ; for here the comparison must not be betwixt one or two elders , and the church including all the people and the rest of the elders , but the comparison is betwixt spece and spece , the office and dignitie and authoritie of the elders as elders , and the people as people ; and the church of jerusalem was not a parishionall , but a presbyteriall church , consisting of many elders , and congregations : now we deny not two elders to be inferior in authoritie to the whole colledge of elders and people , and so there is no authoritie of the people above the elders , from this proved . . a morton answereth papists in the like argument , that sending proveth onely that those who are sent , are not superiors to those who sent them , for the father sent his sonne into the world . . ( saith the author ) if an elder or a whole eldership erre , the church may call him , or them to account , and in case of obstinacie excommunicate them : for it is not reason that elders should want the medicine of excommunication to save their soules , if they stand in need thereof , more then other . as peter gave an account , act. . to the church of jerusalem of his going in to the uncircumoised . answ. . if a warrant or example from the word , that one single company of sole beleevers wanting elders , did in a church way censure any one pastor , or a whole eldership , and that the church of jerusalem consisting onely of beleevers without elders , called peter before them judicially to give an account of going in to the uncircumcised , is a dreame : and though peter should have given satisfaction to a number of sole beleevers , to remove the scandall , it proveth not that they had authoritie over peter , for one private offender is obliged to give an account , and a satisfaction to another private brother , whom he hath offended , matth. . . yet hath not a brother church authoritie over one another , to excommunicate him , as our brethren say , that a company of onely private beleevers may excommunicate all the elders of the congregation . . it followeth not that elders should want the medicine of excommunication , when they stand in need thereof , because the people may not excommunicate them , for there be others who of office should excommunicate ; and also the want of a meane of salvation , as the want of baptisme , where such are wanting , as have the onely church power , to administer such means , doth not condemn men . on the other side , ( saith the author ) the elders have rule over the church , and that in sundry acts , as . in calling together the church upon any weighty occasion , act. . . answ. . this power of conveening the multitude , cannot bee the power of governing gods house spoken of , tim. , , . tit. . . to obey those who watch for our soules , heb. . . cannot bee to conveene to a church meeting at their commandement . . to conveen the church meeting or synods , is an action of the whole church , for christ hath given power to his owne church an ecclesiastick power to conveen her owne courts , and this can no more be a peculiar act of authoritie , agreeing onely to the elders , or to a pastor , then the act of excommunication , for it is given to all the faithfull by your owne grounds , cor. . . cor. . cor. . . how then is it a peculiar act of auhoritie in the elders ? . the elders , if they bee to bee accused and censured , are they to conveen the judicatory , as the consull did conveen the senate , and to summon themselves ? also if they have any power to conveen the church , it is but delegated , for orders sake , to them , by the church ; ergo , this authoritie is principally and first in the church , and so it is no authoritie peculiar to the elders ; also , if it be but a thing of meere order , it is not an act of jurisdiction over the church ; a moderator who conveeneth the synod , or a consul who conveenth the senat , have not in that , jurisdiction or authoritie over the synod or senat , and may the elders hinder , i pray you , the conveening of the church ? i thinke not . . this is but a popish argument , pope julius the third , in his bull taketh this upon him , to conveene councells . the cardinall de monte president for the pope gave leave by a speciall bull from the pope to the councell of trent to advise about the translating of the councell from trent to bonony . and a good bellarmine and b harding , as jewell teacheth us , make this a part of the transcendent power and authoritie of the pope over the church , to conveen the church catholick ; and if it bee an act of authoritie over the church to conveene the church , farre more must it bee in the pope to conveene the catholick church . lastly , this power in elders should bee made good by the word of god. secondly , ( saith hee ) their authority over the church is in opening the doores of speech and silence to any of the assembly , act. . . unlesse it be where the elders themselves lie under offence or suspition , then the offended party may begin with them , act. . . yet with due reverence observed , as to their yeares , so to their place , tim. . . answ. if to speake first in a church meeting , prove that the elders have authority over the church ; then one elder hath authority over all the rest of the elders , and must be a little pope , or a great prelate , for two or foure elders cannot all speake first . we seeke now an act of authority due to elders or pastors , as they are such , and above the people ; if you make this an act of authority , you then give us in every church-meeting and synod a pastor of pastors , and an elder of elders , and a pope . . if this be an act of authority over the church , then have papists well proven that peter hath an authority and power over all the church , for c suarez , and d bellarmine , and e harding prove peter to be a pope , because he speaketh first in the councell , act. . . and the text that you cite , they cite also : but f whittakerus , and g gerson saith , as also h lyran , and i carthusian , it is like that james spake first as president of the councell . . the author leaveth this act of authority , as weake , and saith , that the offended party may speake first . ergo ( say i ) to speake first is not an authoritative act of pastors as pastors agreeing to them , by vertue of their office , seeing this act is communicated to those who are out of office . ergo , they have not shewen as yet any pastorall act of office due to the elders as elders ; and if it were most convenient that elders should first speake , our brethren will not say that it is due to them by their office , but for their age and gifts , and so they say nothing . thirdly , ( saith the author ) elders have rule over the church in preaching the word , and they have power to teach and exhort , to charge and command , to reprove and rebuke with all authoritie , tim. . . and . . thes. . . answ. it can not be denied , but elders , that is , preaching elders or pastors , have authoritie over the people in preaching and rebuking with all authoritie ; but . i aske at our brethren , by what authoritie of the scripture is pastorall binding and loosing an authoritative act of the preaching elder onely ? for the concionall or preaching power of remitting and retaining sinnes , joh. . . is all one with the power of the keyes , matth. . and that is given ( saith our brethren ) to the whole church , and by these texts are not restricted to pastors as they expone them . . our brethren alledge there is a two-fold power of preaching in pastors , one by vertue of their gift , another by vertue of their office . by the first pastors doe preach to infidels , turkes , and unconverted ones ; now this preaching is not proper to pastors as pastors , nor is it any authority peculiar to pastors over all the flocke , for all gifted persons ( as our brethren teach ) may preach , and so the gifted ones amongst the people have authority over the pastors in this meaning , as well as the pastors have over them , and so the difference of rulers and ruled , of feeders and the fed , is taken away . now for the power of pastorall teaching , the pastors have authority over the church , but that is over the invisible church of beleevers , and regenerated persons , for pastors as pastors doe not convert soules , and so they preach to the unconverted not as pastors , or with any pastorall care : for they teach that pastors , doctors , and church-officers are given , ephes. . . onely for confirming of those who are already converted , not for converting of soules , and by this meanes , . pastors doe not preach the law , for the humbling of unconverted sinners , they doe not as pastors , or by vertue of the office open the eyes of the blinde , nor are they ministers by whom men beleeve , cor. . . nor are they fathers who begot men in christ jesus , through the gospell , as cor. . . nor doe they pray men in christs stead to be reconciled unto god , as cor. . . which is strange and uncouth doctrine of our brethren , for all these acts ministeriall are performed upon non-converts , who are not properly members of christs mysticall body , nor of the spouse of christ , nor members of the visible church , nor the sonnes and daughters of the lord god almighty , nor have some measure of sincerity and truth , as this author chap. . sect. . requireth of members of the visible church , and these are not under any pastorall care , really and in very deed , who are yet unconverted to the faith , therefore the pastor , if hee convert any by his preaching , he doth it by vertue of his gift , not as a pastor or by vertue of his office , as they teach in their answer to the . questions , & so as pastors they have no authoritie over the unconverted within the visible church ; and this authoritative act of elders over the people , falleth to the ground , by their principles . . this authoritative preaching doth not yet make over to the elders authoritative power above , or over the people , such as wee now seeke . for . by this ruling elders who do not preach and labour not in the word and doctrine , tim. . . by office , have not this power ; ergo , yet you give no peculiar authoritie to the whole eldership over the people . . the spirit of god requireth an authority of overseeing and governing to bee in pastors beside the authoritative power of preaching ; for besides that a bishop should bee ●apt to teach , tim. . . hee must also , v. , , . bee one , who can both govern his own house , and also the church of god , and not onely must hee not neglect the gift of prophecying , tim. . . but also hee must know , tim. . . how to behave himselfe in the church of god , and must bee circumspect in receiving accusations against an elder , and lay hands suddenly on no man , and not be partaker of other mens sinnes , tim. . . . he must not onely bee an approven workman , to divide the word aright , timothey . . and preach in season and out of season , tim. . . but also must commit the word to faithfull men who are able to teach others , tim. . . all which are singular points of authoritative power of government different from authoritative power of teaching . and so titus must not onely have the oversight by sound doctrine to exhort and convince the gainesayers , tit. . . but hee hath power in governing to order the things of discipline , and to appoint elders in every citie , tit. . . act. . . yea there is an oversight in watching for soules , in governing no lesse then in teaching , h●b . . . now this author sheweth us nothing , that is a peculiar authoritative power in ruling , governing and a disciplinary overseeing of soules , which the word giveth to elders , as they are elders , and called governors of gods people , as yet , yea all the people are governors , rulers and overseers in government by them , no lesse then the elders . . the author saith , elders have rule over the church in dispensing all the censures of the church , ( unlesse it bee in their owne cause ) for though they take the consent of the church in dispensing a censure , yet they set on the censures with great authoritie , in the name of the lord ; yea it is no small power , that they put forth in directing the church , what censures are due according to the word : as , though the judge dispense no sentence , but according to the verdict of the jury , yet his authority is great both in directing the jury to give their verdict according to the law , and in pronouncing the sentence with power and terrour ; the like d●e the elders in dispensing church censures . answ. this dispensing of church censures hath two branches . . a directing of the church in the qualitie of the censures . . a binding of the censures upon them , or in executing the censures of the church . for the former , if it bee a pastorall direction , it is all one with preaching of the word , and is not an act of authority by way of governing , but by way of pastorall teaching . but , . wee would have a word from god , giving this power of the keyes peculiarly to the pastors , for if you give the keyes to all the church of beleevers , as beleevers , and because they are christs spouse , his mysticall body , the habitation of his spirit by faith , then with your good leave , there bee neither keyes , nor any power of the keyes given to the pastors as pastors , and in respect of their office , but onely as they are a part of christs body ; now as pastors or elders , they are neither beleevers , nor the bride , nor a part of the bride , but at best the friends of the bridegroome , joh. . . especially seeing the church as the church , and as using actually the keyes , doth censure and judicially prescribe the qualitie and quantitie of the censure , as they are directed , matth. . cor. . , , , . yea and the church judicially , and authoritatively pronounceth the sentence , and maner of the censure on the sentence : for example , of ten collaterall and coequall judges , if two of these ten bee skilled juristes , and shall direct the rest in the qualitie of the punishment to bee inflicted upon a malefactor , that direction commeth from them , not as judges over the rest , nor by any peculiar power that they have above the rest , seeing all the ten are equally and joyntly judges of a like power , but that direction commeth from them as skilled jurists : so here , though the elders direct the church anent , the qualitie of the censure , they doe not this by an authority above the church , seeing the church with them have received the keyes ; yea they principally as the spouse of christ , and his mysticall body , have received the keyes , and the pastoes and elders as such have the keyes , not but as they are beleevers and a part of the mysticall body , but as they are pastors and elders they have not received the keyes at all , by our brethrens doctrine ; yea as elders or officers they are not parts of the church , but onely adjuncts and ornaments thereof . for the second , to wit , the execution of the censures of the church , if they doe it as pastors , and by vertue of their office execute the sentence of the church as pastors , they are meere servants of the church , not collaterall judges , with the church , and are not as the judge who doth direct the jury : for the jury doth only cognosce of the fact , but hath no judiciall power to pronounce the sentence or discerne the qualitie of the punishment , nor can the jury at all discerne any punishment . but the judge cognosceth both of the law , and the fact , and authoritatively pronounceth sentence ; but the elders have no authoritative power in directing the people to pronounce , or not pronounce the sentence ; or what sentence to pronounce , or what censure to inflict ; for if they have this authoritative power , then we seeke scripture to warrant this power . . the elders must then have the keyes in a more emminent manner then the people or church of beleevers ; so all bee but blanke and emptie titles given to elders hitherto . fiftly , saith the author , the elders have power to dismisse the people or church , and that with a blessing , numb . . . to . which is an act of seperioritie , heb. . . an. this is but an emptie title also . for , . the pastoronly , & one dismisseth doctor , elders , deacons , and the whole congregation ; and so one is a pastor of pastors , and an arch-elder of elders hath authority , by this , over his fellow elders , and candismisse them , therefore there is nothing peculiar in an officiall power , here to the whole presbytery , above the people . . a majority or superioritie is one thing , and a power of jurisdiction is another . blessing of the church at their dismission is nothing , but a prayer of the whole church ( the minister being mouth ) who blesseth all , and is no act of superioritie of jurisdiction , or power of the keyes , of which wee now dispute . and you cannot thinke that to obey those who are over you in the lord , and submit to them , as it is , heb. . . is nothing but to receive a dismissory blessing from the pastor . and i much doubt , if the priests blessing of the people , numb . . was morall , and if it was not typicall , hee not taking in himselfe , but as a type of christ , pronouncing the whole visible church blessed , sorypifying christ our priest , in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed , gal. . . and do not the people pay the pastor home in his owne coyne , for you make the church of beleevers to ordaine their owne elders , and to lay hands upon them and blesse them , so you teach . . nor is dismissing of the church an act of authoritie , or of officiall power , for your preaching and unofficed professors may dismisse , as well as they may publikely pray and preach . . a dismission is agreed upon by the church , before hand , and floweth from the nature of all publike meetings . . ejusdem est potestatis congregare & dimittere caetum congregatum ; you know to conveene christs courts authoritatively is due to no man on earth ; the church hath an intrinsecall power of herselfe to conveene ( being the court of the lord jesus ) and so also to dissolve , and this is the usurped power that the antichrist taketh to himselfe to conveene the generall councells ; as a bellarmin , b suarez , c pighius , and d cajetanus teach us . sixtly , our author saith ; in case of apostasie of the church , or other notorious scandals , or obstinacie thereof , their elders have power to denounce the judgement of god against the church , and withdraw themselves from it ; as upon the idolatry of the israeli●es , moses tooke the tabernacle and pitched it without the camp , exod. . and paul with barnabas rejected the jewes for their blasphemy , and turned to the gentiles , act. . , . answ. here be two diverse things sewed together to make up one thing : . to denounce the judgement of god is one thing , . to separate from the church is another thing ; the former is an act of authoritie , being rightly taken , the latter is an act of no authoritie . but for the first , to denounce judgement on a visible church , and that with a separation , is ● nothing but an act of pastorall teaching , and so no act of officiall power of governing in the elders above the church , is brought in all these six , and so yet the difference betwixt the feeders and the fed , the shepheards and flocke , the watchman and the citie , or the people who are to submit and obey these who are over them in the lord , who rule well , is close everted , and all the churches are turned masters , feeders , governors , rulers ; for elders have no officiall authoritie by our brethrens doctrine , which is not in the church of beleevers . . to denounce judgement to an idolatrous and obstinate church , who by their apostasie do declare themselves , not to bee christs body , is a pastorall act of pastors exercised on those who now leave off to be churches , and this is to play the pastors to that which is not a flocke , and as unlawfull as for a husband to exercise the actions of a husband to one who is not his wife . . to separate from an obstinate church is by you thought lawfull to all private christians , who would not defile themselves with the pollutions of the church , how then do you make it an authoritative act of ruling pastors ? . for pastors to remove the gospell , and preach no more to an obstinate church , is not , nor can it , in reason , be , that wherein wee are to submit and obey those , who are over us in the lord. my reason is , we are to be agents , at least , for most part , in submitting and yeelding our selves to those who in teaching and governing are over us in the lord , because they watch for our soules . but in their separating from us and removall of the gospel , wee are meere patients and cannot be agents . . moses his removall of the tabernacle , and paul his turning from the jewes , was by another spirits warrant , then pastors now a dayes can dare to remove themselves , and their ministery from a visible church , for paul turned from the jewes for their universall apostasie , blasphemy , and opposing of the maine and principall foundation of the christian faith , to wit , that christ jesus came in the world , died for sinners , rose againe , and ascended to heaven , &c. the . case , to wit , of any particular scandall , or scandals and of obstinacie therein , cannot bee the like ground for elders to separate from a church and never preach the gospel againe to them . chap. . sect . . of communion of sister churches amongst themselves . i here bee seven wayes , saith the author , by which wee leepe the communion of saints in divers churches . . by way of participation . . of recommendation . . of consultation . . of congregation . . of contribution . . of admonition . . of propagation , or multiplication of churches . it is allowed by the consent of our churches , that when the members of any other churches are occasioned to rest with us on the lords day , when the supper commeth to be administred , and neither the persons themselves , nor the church they came from , under any publick offence , they bee by us admitted to the participation of the lords supper : for wee looke at the lords supper , not onely as a seale of our communion with the lord jesus , but also of our communion with his members , and that not onely with the members of our owne churches , but of all the churches of the saints ; and this is the first way of communion with other churches , to wit , by participation . answ. . we heartily embrace the doctrine of the communion of saints , but many things are here which are incompatible with your doctrine ; as first communion of churches , which you call a branch of the communion of saints , cannot consist with your doctrine , for a church by you is relative onely , to the eldership of a church , as sonnes are relative to fathers , but a sonne is not relative to a brother , so neither is a parishionall church properly a church in relation to a neighbour church ; for a church hath no church-state , no church-priviledges , no church-worship , in relation to a sister-church ; therefore you should say , the communion of christians of sister-churches , not the communion of churches , for no church by your doctrine hath any church-state ; or church-worship in relation to any , but to its owne members . . this enumeration is defective , you make a communion of churches in the members of sister churches , in the lords supper , though the members of neighbour churches bee not inchurched in church-state , by oath , as a member of that church , where hee partaketh the lords supper ; and why should not the child of beleeving parents in the death or absence of the pastors of neighbour churches have communion with you in baptisme also ? for this communion in baptizing , you deny to any but those who are members of that church , wherein they receive baptisme . . if you admit communion of churches in some things , to wit , in the lords supper , how can you deny communion of churches in other holy things of god ? for you admit no communion of churches in the power of the keyes , as in mutuall counselling , warning , rebuking , binding and loosing , for christ hath left no common power of the keyes in many visible churches , who are united together in an iland or nation , or continent , by which these acts of communion should bee regulated , and in case of neglect and abuse , censured according to gods word as you say , for you deny all authoritative power in synods , let me bee resolved , deere brethren , in this , how christ hath put whole churches and their soules in worse case then members of your independent congregations are , for the keyes of the kingdome of heaven in binding and loosing , in excommunicating , that the spirit may bee saved in 〈◊〉 day of the lord , the removing of scandalls out of sister parishionall kingdomes of christ , the gaining of sister churches from heresies and scandalls , as brethren are to bee gained , matth. . . cor. . . tim. . . by censures , the keeping of the holy things of god from profanation , authoritative rebuking , warning , that others may feare , and that the rebuked may bee ashamed , and all these meanes of salvation are denied to your particular congregations , as if they were angels and popes , who cannot be lacking in duties , and yet all these are granted to members of any one particular church , how hath the care & wisedome of christ denied these meanes to many united churches , and yet you acknowledge that sister churches have communion amongst themselves , and that seven wayes , in visible acts of externall communion ? i beleeve this one argument , though there were no more , doth strongly conclude the lawfulnesse of synods , and by consequent , the law of nature would say , if christs wisdome provide wayes to regulate the publike actions of the members of a particular church , that they may be edified and builded up in the most holy faith , farre more hath he taken care for many churches united in a visible communion seven wayes , that lord that careth for the part , must farre rather care for the whole body . . you say members of other churches are admitted to the lords supper amongst you , by consent of your churches , but what consent doe you meane ? is the consent authoritative , by power of the keyes ? . this consent authoritative is either concluded in a synod of many churches , and so you acknowledge the authoritative power of synods , if it be done and agreed upon in every particular church by them alone ▪ then i aske , seeing to administer the lords supper to any , and so to make in your church meeting , that it shall be administred to any , is ( as you teach ) an act of ministeriall power over those , to whom you administer the seale , chap. . sect. . now how doe you exercise acts of ministeriall power , or conclude ecclesiastically to exercise these acts in your parishional meeting toward those over whom you have no ministeriall power ? for members of neighbour churches are under no ministeriall power in your particular church , as you teach in the same place , as you can exercise no power of the keyes when some are absent , that is tyranny upon the conscience , saith a answorth , who will have none censured , or excommunicated , except the whole congregation be present : also he who of another church communicateth with you , . hath no faith of the lawfull calling , and choosing your ministers , for he neither could nor ought to be present thereat . . he knoweth not but he may be leavened by a scandalous lumpe , which leaveneth the whole church , and is enough , as you say ( chap. . sect. ) to hold any from communicating in the seales with any church . now these and many other things he must take in trust from you , which answorth thinketh tyranny of conscience ; neither can a letter of recommendation make one of another congregation , capable of seales with you ; for to dispone is to alienate and give away the ministeriall power of the seales to another church . now this power ( say you , chap. . sect. . ) is a part of the liberty wherewith christ hath made you free , and so you cannot dispone it to another church , except you bring your selfe in bondage , contrary to gal. . . . mr. best . b and your c selfe , bold that a pastor can exercise no pastorall act , but over his owne flocke , and you say that the scripture saith so , act. . . pet. . . ergo , either to administer the lords supper , is no pastorall act , and may be done by non-pastors , ( as arminians and socinians destroying the necessity of a ministery , doe averre ) or then a minister cannot administer the lords supper to any but his owne flocke : see you to this . . if the sister church lie under any offence , you will not admit any of their members to the lords supper , though these members be of approven piety ; and why ? what a separation is this ? what if these members do not consent to that offence , as some of the godly in corinth might be humbled and mourne , that the church did not cast out the incestuous person , shal they be debarred by you from the seales , because they separate not from that infected lump ? the apostle alloweth communicating , ( so that every one examine himselfe , cor. . . . ) with drunken persons , and where many were stricken of god , with death , and diverse diseases , as eating and drinking their owne damnation . . you looke at the lords supper , as a seale of communion with all the churches of the saints . what communion meane you ? invisible ? no. you deny that the seales are given to the invisible church , and the members thereof , but to the visible church , as you say ; d if you meane a visible communion of all the visible churches of the saints , why then brother doe you call the universall visible church a chimera , or a dreame , as you say ? e and if all the visible churches have a visible communion , it is to deny christs wisdome and care of his church , to deny the lawfulnesse of a oecumenick and generall councell of all the churches of the saints . we recommend ( saith the author ) brethren for a time to other churches , as paul recommended phoebe to the church of rome , rom. . . . or we give letters dismissorie to such as are for ever to reside in another congregation ; but members are not to remove from their congregation , but upon just and weighty reasons made knowne and allowed by the whole church , for wee looke at our church covenant , as an everlasting covenant , jerem. . v. . and therefore though it may be resigned , and translated from one church to another , ( as gods hand shall direct ) yet it is not to be violated , and rejected by us ; if members cut off themselves by excommunication , it is their owne fault ; if any upon light reasons be importunately desirous to remove , the church is to use indulgence , as not willing to make the church of god a prison , but often the hand of god in poverty and scandall followeth such , and driveth them to returne : when a person recommended by letters commeth to another congregation , the church by lifting up their hands , or by silence receive him ; if he ●e altogether unknowne , and doubted of , because the church may erre , be is not received till due triall be taken of him . answ. we see not how letters of recommendation , most lawfull , as we judge , and necessary , can resigne ministeriall power , a liberty bought with christs bloud , ( as you say ) to any other church , for we think all the visible churches are one catholike visible church , and should have a visible communion , and so that there is no resignation of ministeriall power in these letters , but they are declaratory of the christian behaviour of the dismissed christian. we aske if dimissory letters be authoritative , and done by the church as the church , and how can a church usurp authority ( by your way ) over a sister church to recommend a sojourner to a church state and church liberties , and seales of the covenant ? one church hath no authority over another . if these letters be meerely private , and meerely declaratory , to manifest and declare the sojourners christian behaviour only then he had power and right without these letters , or any act of resignation , or giving away ministeriall power , to be a church-member , of the visible church to the which he goeth . ergo , he was a member of the visible church , to which he goeth before the dimissory letters were written ; and the letters doe resigne no right , but onely notifie and declare the sojourners preexistent right , and so there is a visible church and a visible communion of all congregations on earth , and most be an externall power and authority in all , for synods . let our brethren see to this . . the person to remove must be dismissed and loosed by the consent of the whole congregation ( it conveniency permit ) else he is not exonered of his church-oath made to that congregation ; what if conveniency doe not permit ? then is he loosed from an oath without consent of the church , which did by oath receive him . i thinke eju●dem p●testatis est ( as the law saith ) ligare & solvere , that church power which bindeth must loose . . if the church-covenant be an everlasting covenant , as jer. . . tying the man to the membership of that particular congregation for ever ; i see not how the church can use indulgenees , and pope-like dispensations against the oath of god , to breake it upon light and frivolous reasons ; for if god punish covenant breaking , so also should the church , and can by no indulgence be accessory to the breach of gods oath , there is too great a smell of popery , arminianisme , and socinianisine in this way , in my weake judgement . but if the man be not sworne a member of that particular church by his oath , he is sworne a member of the visible church universall , which our brethren cannot well say . neither is any covenant called an everlasting covenant in the scripture , but the covenant of grace , jer. . . c. . . isa. . , . and that is made with the invisible catholike church of beleevers , as is the covenant , jer. . . and not a covenant with one visible congregation , and what warrant hath the church to dispense with the breach of such an everlasting covenant ? . the testimony of other churches , if it be a warrant to you , in faith , to receive into the church such a one as a saint , and a temple of the holy spirit , how should it not also be a warrant to you , to cast out and excommunicate also ? . the person comming from another church , if of approven piety , is received , by lifting up of the hands , or silence of the church , as you say , . have we a warrant from gods word , for such a new inchurching ? . why is he not received by a church oath ? as a minister transplanted to another church , must have ordination and election of new , for to you there is alike reason . . if there be no need of a new church oath to make him a member of that visible congregation , seeing now he is loosed from the former , you in●inuate his former church-oath did make him a member of a visible church , and so ●e that is a visible member in a church , is a visible member of all , and so there must be a visible church-catholike , if there be a catholike visible membership in any one member , and so you destroy what you build . manuscr . . a third way of communion with other churches ( saith the author ) is by seeking their helpe and presence . . in admitting of members . . in case of differences of judgments . . in matters darke and doubtsome . answ. we seeke a warrant from the word for this , for elders are present at the admission , and choosing of officers , as prime agents by authority , not by way of naked counsell and advise . act. . . c. . . c. . . act. . . tim. . . manuscr . the fourth way , ( saith he ) is by gathering many churches , or their messengers in a synod , to examine and discusse either corrupt opinions , or suspicious practises . here . the magistrate is acquaint with our assembly , he being a nourishing father of the church . . they meete in christs name . . the elders declare their judgement in order , and the reasons thereof . . all may speake till the truth either be cleared , and all either convinced or satisfied , as act. . . . if things be not fully cleared , and if it seeme that the nature of them admit farther disquisition , yea and difference of judgements , without disunion of affections , or prejudice of salvation , each man is left to his christian liberty , and if any be otherwayes minded , god shall reveale the same thing to him . answ. this section being closed , i have here two considerable points to be discussed ; the one anent the power of synods : the other anent the power of the civill magistrates . quest. i. whether or not synods have authority , by divine right , to obleige the churches to obedience , in things lawfull and expedient ? for the fuller clearing of this grave question , i would have these considerations weighed by the godly reader . consider . . canons of councells may be thought to ●ye as authoritative commandements , or as advises and friendly counsells . . an advise or counsell doth obleige and tye both for the intrinsecall lawfulnesse of the counsell , it being for matter gods word , and also for the authority of the friends counselling , because the first commandement enjoyneth obedience to all our betters , not onely inplace , and officiall relation , as to kings , fathers , pastors , &c. but also to all above us in age , gifts , knowledge , experience . . hence there is a superiority of dominion , or jurisdiction , and a superiority of reverence , and endowments : the former is the narrower , inadequate , and straiter subject of the fifth commandement , and both are considerable objects , in this commandement . . all who as friends , equalls , brethren , and indued with more grace , experience and light , doe advise and counsell good , are superiors in so farre , but it is a superiority of reverence , not of jurisdiction : for by this they who are aged , and may counsell what is lawfull , have not power to censure or excommunicate those who follow not their counsell . yet if david had rejected the counsell of abigail , disswading him from passionate revenge , he had in that despised god , unlessethe prince or the high-priest had given that counsell by way of command , though there be degrees of latitude in despising the one , rather then the other . . there is a difference betwixt hability to judge , and right or power to judge : a presbyteriall church may have right , jus , and ecclesiasticall law to judge of a point , to the judging whereof , they want hability , and therefore de facto , it belongeth to a higher synod , where more learned men are , though de jure the presbytery may judge it . . though government of the church by synods , be gods positive law , yet upon the laid downe ground , christ hath given the keyes and power of government to every visible church , the government of united churches by synods , is a branch of the law of nature . . synods are necessary for the well-being of the church , and still are in the visible church in more , or lesse degrees , for the authority of synods consisting of fix onely , differeth not in nature and essence , from a generall councell of the whole catholike visible church . magis et minus non variant speciem . and therefore if synods be warranted by the word of god , ( as no question they are ) there is no neede to prove by particular places of the word , the lawfulnesse of every one of these , a sessionall meeting of the eldership of a single congregation . . a presbytery , or meeting of the elders , or pastors & doctors of more congregations . . a provinciall synod of the presbyteries of a whole province . . the nationall assembly , or meeting of the elders of the whole nation . . the generall and occumenick councell of pastors , doctors , and elders of the whole catholick church visible ; for all these differ not in essence , but degrees , and what word of god , as matth. . , . proveth the lawfulnesse of one , is for the lawfulnesse of all the five sorts of synods . . grant the consociation of authorities in sundry churches , and you cannot deny the authority of synods above particular churches . . consociation of churches to give advise and counsell , is not consociation of churches as churches , but onely consociation of christian professors , who are obleiged to teach , admonish , and rebuke one another . . there is a right of dominion , and a right of jurisdiction , as we shall heare anon . hence our first conclusion , a generall councell is a congregation of pastors , doctors , and elders , or others , met in the name and authority of jesus christ , out of all churches , to determine according to the word of god , all controversies in faith , church-government , or manners , no faithfull person , who desireth , beeing excluded from reasoning and speaking . neither is the definition of a a●m●in , and b gerson much different from this , save that they thinke that councells are lawfully conveened , if such and such onely , as are of the hierarchike order be members thereof , which we thinke antichristian . . as also the pope president here , we disclaime . yet doth almain confesse that a generall councell may be conveened without the pope in three cases . . when the pope is dead , either departing this life , or civilly dead , being excommunicated . for any crime of heresie : for the apostolike sea hath vaiked often two yeares together . . when the pope is averse and opposeth reformation . . when time and place hath beene assigned for the next generall , councell , as was done in the councell of basil ; and the papists grant that , matth. . tell the church , is a warrant for a generall councell . . because it is a meane for the saving of the spirits of all men , even pastors and apostles in the day of the lord. . because apostles , though in prophecying and writing canonick scripture , when they were inspired , could not erre , yet otherwise they might erre ; and if peter should have remained obstinate in his judaizing , gal. . and resused to heare paul or the church , hee was to bee excommunicated . . by the church , matth. . ( saith d the schoole of paris ) cannot bee understood , the prelats of the church onely , because christ did speake to peter ; and saith almain and gerson , peter cannot bee both an ac●user , a witnesse , and a judge . . there is a power of the keyes to bind and loose , given immediatly by christ to all the rulers of the catholick or universall church visible ; ergo , the exercise of this power , though it bee sometimes ( physice ) impossible , because of the corruption of mans nature , there being bloody warres in christendome , yet it is morally lawfull , for many things may bee inconvenient , through mans wickednesse , and so hic & nunc not expedient , which are morally lawfull . . conclusion ; every particular pastor hath a power , though unproper , of dominion and authoritie , even out of a synod , about the acts of preaching and determining truth ; according to the word of god , as jer. . . see , i have this day set thee over the nations , and over the kingdomes , &c. tim. . . charge them that are rich that they bee not high minded , &c. tim. . . i charge thee before god , and the lord jesus christ , who shall judge the quick and the dead , &c. so any pastor hath power of dominion and authoritie over a synod , and paul as a pastor might preach , even before the councell at jerusalem passed their synodicall determination , act. . that circumcision was not necessary , and that to obstaine from things strangled , from blood and fornication was necessary and lawfull , yea and in preaching truth the pastor is subject to no synod . but the pastor hath not full power of jurisdiction about his acts of preaching necessary truth . . because the church may for just causes deprive him from preaching . . because hee cannot use the censure of excommunication against those who refuse to receive his true and necessary doctrine , without the church joyne her power of jurisdiction with him . . he , his alone , cannot in a synod determine ecclesiastically , and in an authoritative church power , that same truth which as a pastor hee determined , and with the power of pastorall dominion hee pressed upon the consciences of the church , yea of the whole synod , because one man is not the church , or synod ; and james his alone , act. . v. . could but say , wherefore my sentence is that yee trouble not them , which from among the gentiles are turned unto god , though this was the very word of god , which james as a pastor , even as an ordinary pastor might have preached in the name of god ; yet is it not the decree of the church , which the churches is to keep , act. . . while it bee determined by the church . an example wee may have possible not unlike to this . a man hath a power of dominion over his owne proper lands and goods to use them in god , for his owne use , but the supreme magistrate and parliament hath a dominion of jurisdiction in a judiciall sentence over those same lands to forfeit them for crimes committed against king and state : or this may cleare it , samuel hath a power immediately from god , to annoint david king , and in this hee is not subject to the suffrages of the tribes of israel , hee hath a power of dominion here ; but suppose wee that samuel live till gods time , when all israel shall crowne david king at hebron , samuel as a part of the assembly of israel , his alone , without the suffrages of israel , could not make him king at hebron . hence wee may see how weake the assertion of our brethren is , who e say , that synods should have power to bind the churches ( say they ) wee see not ; f bellarmine indeed holdeth so . but orthodox writers hold that the sentence of councels is but a certaine inquisition of the truth , and a ministeriall and limited sentence , so that the decree of a councell is of as great force as the reason thereof , so saith amesius and g junius . but certainly this is a meer mistake of our brethren , as if they were not orthodox writers , but conspirers against the truth with bellarmine , who hold the authoritie of synods . the essentiall end ( to speak so ) of synods is unitie , and the eschewing of schisme ; and wee doubt not , but peter , paul , james had in their sermons , and doctrine determined that same veritie , to wit , that the law of moses and ceremonies was a yoak not to bee laid upon the christian churches , yet it was not a decree for unities sake , and fuller authoritie binding the churches to observe these , as act. . . while it was determined in a synod , act. . . . but truely wee hold nothing in this common with jesuites and papists , for wee condemne not that in bellarmine , that hee holdeth that lawfull synods ( for of such wee dispute with him ) do bind the churches to obedience in god , to their decrees , not because they say it , but because they say it authoritatively from gods word ; authoritie of synods no orthodox writers deny , authoritie officiall as the representative church of christ they have , he that heareth you heareth mee , hee that despiseth you despiseth me ; where two or three are gathered together ( in a synod , say our divines ) i will bee amongst them . but authoritie objective they have not , so as what they say , because they say it , therefore the very matter , object and thing said by them , is no lesse the word of god , then if the prophets and apostles by divine inspiration had said it ; at least it is not infallibly true , because they say it , for that wee disclaime , and it is that authoritie of synods , which bellarmine and papists hold , councells ( saith h bellarmine ) and scripture are both infallible , and i the jesuits of rhemes , and k lorinus the jesuite said councells are infallible , the holy spirit is there present ; l gratian said , all the decretall epistles of popes , and m the canons of the councells are of equall authoritie with the scriptures : and their o gregorius said hee received with the same reverence and authoritie the foure generall councells , & the foure evangelist● ; it is certaine ( saith p suarez ) that a councell is an infallible rule of faith , and q turrecremata saith the same : it is certaine ( saith r bailius ) councells are ●● the oracles of god to us in difficulties , so saith s cajetanus , t canus , and u gregorius de valentia ; wee hold the authoritie of councels , but ascribe to them as much power over the conscience , as there is reason in them from gods word , and no more . but . this is a weake reason , councels have no power to command obedience , because their canons and decrees are of no more force , then they have reason from gods word . for . friends , brethren , equals , by that have no warrant to rebuke , because their rebukes have but as much force , as they have reason from the word of god , for the reason is alike in both ; lawfull pastors cannot command obedience in the lord , your independent congregations cannot command that which bindeth the church to obedience , because the word or a commandement of a pastor , or your independent church is onely a commandement ministeriall and limited , and hath as much force as there is reason in it , from the word of god ; yea the church of corin●h hath not then the power of the lord jesus to excommunicate the incestuous person , nor the church of thyatira , to cast out and condemne jezabell the false prophetesse ; nor do these commandements of the synod , or church assembly have any power to bind the churches to obedience , because these commandements and decrees of censure are but ministeriall and limited , and in so farre onely of force , as they have reason from the word of god , as you say . . conclusion : there is an authoritative power in synods , whereby they may and doe command in the lord the visible churches , in their bounds ; the whole churches are subject to the ordinance and decree of the church , act. . where with common consent of a synodicall meeting , matthias is ordained an apostle ; ergo , all the churches are to take him for an apostle . this argument cannot bee repelled , because the apostles by their extraordinary power did choose matthias . because , . they themselves cite this place to prove the peoples power ordinary , which is to indure to christs second comming , in calling and electing their owne officers and elders . . almain x a papist alleadgeth the place with good reason , to prove that a generall councell is above peter or the pope , because peter would not choose matthias without consent of the apostles and church . . if this was extraordinary that matthias was chosen , why then is the vow and consent of the church sought ? for there is nothing extraordinary and apostolick flowing from an apostolick spirit , which is concluded or done by the spirit ordinary of the church of beleevers . so also act. . if the apostles did not by the ordinary and synodicall power of ordinary pastors choose seven deacons , how doe they first require that the churches of grecians and hebrewes should seek out seven men ? v. . and did ordaine them with the common consent of the whole multitude , v. . act. . a synod of moe churches give decrees which obliege the churches , v. . ch . . v. . ergo , synods have authoritie over the churches . those who say this synod is not a patterne for after synods , say farre aside ; for their reason is , this was . an apostolick synod ; . the holy ghost was here ; . the thing determined was canonick scripture . but this is a way to clude all the promises made to pastors in the word , when as they are first made to apostles : this promise , behold i am with you to the ●nd of the world , and this , i will send you the other comforter , who 〈◊〉 lead you in all truth , cannot bee made to faithfull pastors , and the christian church , that now is , for it is certaine christ is otherwise present with his apostles , then with his pastors after them . and that he gave them a tongue & a spirit when they were before the councels and rulers , as to apostolick men , as act. . . , . act. . . as christ promised , matth. . . . luk. . , , . for they were full of the holy ghost before rulers , but by our brethrens doctrine , it shall follow none of these promises belong to pastors now adayes in the like , because no pastors now are apostles . surely this were to fetter and imprison many glorious promises within the pale of the onely apostolick church ; and because christ ascending to heaven sent downe the apostolick spirit to his apostles to write and preach canonick scripture , it shall follow he fulfilleth that promise , john . . to none now adayes , because none have the apostolike spirit in the manner and measure that the apostles had . yea further it is canonick scripture that the apostles at the last supper did shew forth the lords death till be come againe ; therefore it shall follow that we have no warrant to shew forth the lords death till he come againe . . but that the apostles in an ecclesiastick way did determine in the synod for our imitation , and not in an apostolike way , is cleare by many evidences in the text , as act. . . paul and barnabas were sent commissioners to the apostles and elders about this question : paul as an apostle needed not be sent to know more of the matter then he knew , as an apostle ; for as an apostle he knew the whole mystery of the gospel , gal. . . . ephes. . , . ergo , he was sent to the synod as a pastor , and that as an ordinary pastor . . they came together , v. . to consider of this businesse , but as apostles they needed not the help of a synod . ergo , they came together as ordinary pastors for the churches after imitation . . there was much debating and disputing , v. . about the matter . . they set down their minds and sentences in order , one after another , as peter first , v. . . then barnabas and paul , v. . then james , v. . and to james his sentence the whole councell agreeth , v. . now what the apostles , as apostles and from an infallible spirit do , they doe it not by seeking light and help one from another . . the decree of the councell is a thing that apostles , elders , and brethren , and the whole church resolveth after much dispute , v. . but all these , especially brethren , and the whole beleevers , as our brethren say , doe not joyne themselves with the apostles , either to write canonick scripture , or to give their consent to the writing of it , therefore they doe consent by a synodall authority , for the after imitation of the churches . also there bee reasons of moment for synods ; and . if according to the law of nature , and nations , no man can bee a judge in his owne cause , then are appeales from the eldership of one congregation , when they are a party to the accused person , naturall , and from a session to the presbyteries and synods of many moe elders . but the former is reason , nature , law of nations . ergo , so is the latter . . it is best reason which hath most of scripture . paul and barnabas , act. . . . had no small disputation with those who said circumcision was necessary ; finding their parties could not be judges . they appeale to a generall councell at jerusalem , where were the apostles and elders ; the church of the grecians and the church of the hebrewes strive , neither of them can judge other , and both appeale to a higher judicatory , to the twelve apostles , and their owne churches meeting with them , and there is the matter determined a●ent helping the poore by deacons ; if the judge doe wrong , and one particular congregation shall oppresse one sincere and sound beleever , what remedy hath the care of christ provided for this ? that the oppressours may be edisied by church censures , and the oppressed freed , and delivered by remedy of discipline of christ , whose it is to judge the poore of the people , and to save the children of the needy , ps. . . now it is knowne that diotrephes doth sometime excommunicate , a and the evill se●vant ruleth all , b hieronymus saith arrians ruled all in the dayes of constantius and valens : c basil saith , we may say in our time , that there is neither prince , nor prophet , nor ru●●● , nor oblation , nor incense : d athanasius and e vincentius lirinent complain'd that it was in the arrians times , as with the church and prophets in the dayes of elias : and amongst papists f occam g the author of onus ecclesiae , and h picus mirandula complaine , there was in their time , no saith , no truth , no religion , no discipline , no modesty ; but all sold offices , churches , dignities , and benefices , and that ambitious popes spill all , the clergy entered by simony , ruled by simony , the holy place corrupted . at which times all the godly were crying for a free generall councell , as a remedy against the corruption of inferior judicatories . sa●ano●ala reputed a prophet , counselled charles the eighth of france , to reforme the church , as he would returne from italy , with honour , as saith i philip de comines . k gerson pleadeth for the necessity of a generall councell . l genebrard saith , for an hundred and fifty yeeres , popes , to the number of fifty , had made defection , from the faith and godlinesse of their ancestors . m aventinus maketh the same complaint , and n almain also , that prelats were more eaten up with the zeale of money , then the zeale of gods house . is there not need then of a generall councell ? hence came also appeales from the pope . the emperour lodovicus bavarus ( saith o the german chronicle ) appealed from pope john . misinformed to a generall councell , and the pope better informed , and the crime was , because he had taken the title of emperour before he was confirmed by the pope , for which he was excommunicated . sigismond duke of austria appealed from pope pius the second , to the next succeeding pope , and a generall councell under him , for the pope excommunicated sigismond , because he kept backe cardinall cusan from the bishoprick of brixen within his dominion ; for the bishoprick was given to him , by a commendam , by the pope : see p aeneas silvius . philip the fourth appealed from wicked boniface the eighth , to the sea apostolike then vacant , and to a future councell ; so q platina relateth . the university of paris appealed from leo the tenth , who wickedly condemned the councell of basill , to a future councell , as you finde it in the treatise called r fasciculus , &c. the archbishop of cullen excommunicated by paul the third , appealed to a lawful councel in germany , because the pope stood accused of heresie and idolatry , as s sleidan saith . the t glosse of the canon law saith , the pope cannot be judge in his owne cause ; and we all know how justly luther appealed from leo the tenth , to a generall councell : all which saith that the like is warranted by the law of nature , where a particular eldership and congregation is accused of scandals , that superiour synods there must be to discusse such causes . and the good use of councels you may see in one : the councell of constance , sess. . art . . condemned john . because he taught there was no life eternall , neque●aliam , post hanc , vitam ; pertinaciter credidit animam hominis cum corpore mori , & extingui , ad instar animalium brutorum , dixitque mortuum semel esse etiam in novissimo die minime resurrecturum . the necessity of assemblies when common enemies trouble the church , prove that christ hath instituted synods . and . our present authour reasoneth from the churches necessity , synods may conveene to examine ( saith he ) either corrupt opinions or suspitious practises ; and citeth for this the councell of jerusalem , act. . now this councell did authoritatively command , act. . . act. . . act. . . and not give advise or counsell onely . . if by the law of nature , and by vertue of the communion of saints , churches conveened , may give advise ; then say i , as communion of counsels and advises is lawfull , so by the law of nature communion of authoritative power is lawfull . as after the eye ( saith w almain ) seeth the danger of the body , it should give warning to the rest of the members to use their power . and this power ( saith he ) denunciative , or by way of charity , though not authoritative , is in private persons for the conveening of a councell . as after ( saith almain x in the same place ) any is instructed by a skilled physitian of that which is necessary , for the health and safety of the whole body , he is obliged to use that necessary meane , not now by vertue of the precept , or rather counsell and advise of the physitian , but by vertue of the precept and authoritative power of the law of nature , for the safety of his body : yea further ( saith he ) if the right band were fettered with chanizees , or should refuse pertinaciously at the nodde of the imagination to defend the body , then the whole power of defending the body , should remaine in the left hand . and certainly this is most naturall , if a forraine enemy should invade a whole land , or any part of a land , the whole land by the law of nature were obliged with joynt authority and power to resist that common enemy . now seeing a number of consociated sister churches make one visible church body , having visible communion together , as the author granteth in the sacrament of the lords supper , which is ( saith he ) a seale of the communion of all the churches of the saints , and in other externall acts of church communion , as hearing the word , exhorting , rebuking , comforting one another , then are all these visible churches with united authority and church power , as churches , and not as christians onely , to conveen and condemne a common heretick infecting all or any part of that visible church body ; and if any one church or congregation under the pretence of plenitude of independencie of government within themselves , should refuse to joyne with the whole , yet the authoritative power of synodicall judging and condemning such a heretick , doth reside by the law of nature , in the rest of the body . if there bee a communion of gifts , there is also a communion of authoritie . and if a nation have intrinsecally authoritative power under a prince to repell a common enemy , for the safetie of the whole , then hath a visible body of many churches in joyning one externall communion of sisterly consociation , under one christ , one church , power to repell a scandalous heretick , who is a common enemy to the whole churches visible . this argument is grounded upon the necessitie of synods ; our brethren are forced to acknowledge their necessitie , by way of counselling , and advising , but synods as synods to bee necessary , they thinke popish . the best popish councell wee read of , is that of basil , where it was ordained that a a generall councell should be holden within five yeers next following , the next councell within seven yeers , and alwayes after that , every ten yeers ; and in the b councell of basil the pope is discharged to transgresse that time of convocating a councell . now the councells as councells are no popish devices , but rather hated by right downe , and well died papists , as is cleare by gersons complaint c who saith omission of generall councells is the churches plugue ; a lover of reformation d franc. zabarell saith , wicked p●pes neglecting generall councells , have undone the church . the learned e author of the review of the councell of trent saith gravely , it is but a theating of christ●ndome above board , to leave the judgement of the necessitie of generall councells to the popes will. and no marvell then popes decline councells ; for the councell of pisan ( as f bellarmine granteth ) was convocated against julius the second that wicked man , and therefore was rejected by julian the second in the councell of g lateran , yet this councell and all the decrees thereof was approven and confirmed by alexander the first , who was accounted lawfull pope ; and ( b ) platina faith , this councell was approved , and that in it gregory . and benet . were deprived of their papall dignitie , all nations assenting , except neither spaine , the king of scotland , and earle of arminac , who followed pope benet : and for approbation of the councells of pise , constance , and basil , which censured popes and deprived them , and subjected them to a generall councell , let any man read the i review of the councell of trent , and bellarmine is therein fully consuted . also generall councells have condemned the doctrine of the church of rome , for which they thinke them not necessary , as the councell of frankford , saith k bellarmine , and basil and constance are not approved in all , because they favour not the roman churches doctrine and the popes supremacy above councells ; yea and generall councells cannot bee simply necessary ( saith hee l because the catholick church remained safe , the first three hundreth yeers after christ , without generall councells , and might have remained safe other three hundreth yeers , and so a thousand yeers , and faults may bee amended by the lawes of popes , and by provinciall councells ( saith hee ; ) and their costerus m saith , the pope him selfe without councells hath condemned many heresies , and this is a shorter and more compendious way , then by councells , for it is hard and laborious to conveene councells , therefore the churches salvation doth not depend upon them , saith n bellarmine , yea it is in vaine ( saith the jesuit o pererius ) to doe that by many , which may as conveniently bee done by fewer , he meaneth councels may be wanted . our brethren rejecting councells , and their necessitie at all , in this sideth with papists . though p calvin saith , nullum esse nec melius , nec certius remedium , that there is no better , nor surer remedy to find out the truth , then a synod of true pastors . and arminians and socinians thinke that synods are neither necessary , nor profitable ; for as our brethren here give no authoritie to synods , but to counsell and advise : the very same is taught by a grand arminian q episcopius , who saith , synods are not profitable , for the establishing the truth , or rooting out of errors and heresies , but onely to advise , sist , examine , and by reasons and arguments to perswade , and therefore are not profitable , either for the being , or for the well being of the church . synodici conventus nec ad ●esse , nec ad bene esse ecclesiae absolute necessarii sunt ; ad veritatis divinae stabilimentum , & hereseon , errorumque averruns itionem vel exstirpationem , eo tantum casu utiles esse statuimus , si ad deliberandum , ventilandum , examinandum , & rationibus argumentisque persuadendum congregentur ; litium finem facere , circa religionis capita , aliter quam persuadendo , est tyrannidem in ecclesiam invehere , & libertatem conscientiarum , si non omnino tollere , saltem vehementer astringere & ligare . to ●nd controversies in the church any otherwise , then by perswading , is to bring in a tyranny in the church of christ , and to hurt , if not altogether to evert the libertie of consciences of men . and the arminians in their apologie r teach us that a decision or a determination of a synod obligeth not those who were not present at the making of that decision . and so have i shown from s answorth , and our brethrens doctrine that they teach , people cannot assent , without tyranny of consciences , to the decrees of the elders , at the making whereof they were not present , and present , consenters . . a synods decision doth incline the mind to consider of the decision , but doth not compell authoritatively to consent and obey . . this is violence to the conscience . . to setch expositions of the word from confessions of faith , or decrees of councells is dangerous ; and this is the doctrine of socinians : for t theophil . nicolaides saith , the church in a synod cannot decide controversies , because shee may erre , neither can shee take them away , for that were to doe violence to mens consciences : and u smalcius saith , this were ( tacite ) quietly to leave the writings of the apostles , and commend humane traditions . so our brethren give nothing , but a power of counselling and morall perswading to synods , and no authoritie to command , because ( say they x in their answers to the . questions ) synods may erre , and their decrees have no more force then they fetch reason from gods word ; and truely our brethren with socinians and arminians here do fall in many foule errors . for , . all preaching of the word , and all power of authoritie of pastors commanding in the name of the lord , faith and obedience , is onely morall and to perswade , and not authoritative to command , because pastors may as well erre in preaching , as the church may erre in synods . . because what pastors preach hath no more force over the conscience , then they have warrant to speake from the word of god , as is cleare , ezek. . . gal. . . thess. . . . all confessions of faith that are set downe by lawfull synods are null . . libertie of prophecying , and a cassandrian licence of beleeving in things controverted , any thing in this or on that side , is lawfull . . a perpetuall doubting of conscience , except in two or three points fundamentall , that all christians beleeve , yea and all hereticks , is brought in in the church . . the lords working with the word preached , is but by way of morall perswasion . . but our divines hold the authoritie of synods , and of pastors preaching the word from the scriptures : z but i find both our brethren and arminians do misken the authority of the church , and of pastors in both preaching and synods , for they thinke to set up the authoritie of synods , is to cast downe the authoritie of the scriptures , because things to bee distinguished are confounded ; for wee deny that synods or pastors have peremptory , absolute , and illimited authoritie , and power to determine as they please in sermons and synods , their power is limited according to the word of god , and their word is onely to bee beleeved , in so farre as it is agreeable to the word of god ; but hence it followeth not , that pastors and synods have no power and authoritie at all to determine , but onely to counsell , advise and perswade ; for private christians , our equalls and inferiours , have power to counsell , perswade , and advise in a private way by teaching , a admonishing , b exhorting , c rebuking , d conference . they build upon the reproving of events of councells by e nazianzen , which is not against their authoritie and true fulnesse , and he speaketh of the councells of his time , and it is not to bee denyed but f panormitan saith well , dictum unius privati est praeferendum dicto papae , si ille moveretur melioribus rationibus veteris & novi testamenti ; and g augustine saith , latter councells may correct older councells ; and petrus de h monte under eugenius complained that there was no godly and learned bishops in his time , to determine truth in a synod , when doctors , professors , bishops , and all have sworne obedience to the pope , to their occumenick councells , and to the wicked decrees of the councell of trent , as the bull of pius the fourth requireth . but before i say any thing of the second question anent the magistrates power , i shall close the other wayes of communion of sister churches . chap. . sect . . three other wayes of communion of sister churches . a fift way of communion ( saith the author ) is by helping and contributing to sister churches , prophets , and teachers , when they are in scarstie , as act. . . rom. . . . ans. this way of communion we acknowledg , but we see not how this communion can stand , wi●hout the authoritie of synods ; if churches bee not united in one visible body , they cannot authoritatively send helpe of teachers one to another ; and this is a direct acknowledgement of a visible union of more churches in one visible body ; for the church of jerusalem authoritatively sent pastors , paul and barnabas , as pastors to the gentiles , you will have them sent as gifted men , and that they are not pastors while they bee ordained , and chosen by these churches to which they goe . a sixt way of communion ( saith hee ) is by admonition ; if a sister church or any member thereof bee scandalous , wee are then to send elders to warn them to call archippus or any other elder , to take beed to do their dutie ; if the elders or church bee remisse in consuring , wee are to take the helpe of two or three churches moe ; if yet that church ●eare not , wee are to tell a congregation of churches together ; or if the offence bee weightie , wee are to withdraw the right hand of fellowship from such a church , and to forbeare all such sort of exercise of mutuall brotherly communion with them , which all the churches of christ are to walke in , one towards another . answ. you acknowledge that same order which christ commandeth , matth. . to gaine a brother , is to bee kept in the gaining of scandalous churches . but . what warrant have you of the two first steps of christs order against scandalous churches , and to omit the third judiciall and authoritative way , when sister churches turne obstinate ? christs order for gaining the scandalous is as necessary in the third , as in the former two . . why doe you allow the third in a sort ? for if the sister church will not bee admonished , you will have her rebuked , before moe sister churches , that are conveened , that is , before a synod ; is it because you thinke there is more authority in a synod , then in one sister church ? then you thinke there is authoritie in a synod ; for by good logick , wee may inferre the positive degree from the comparative , and there is no other reason why the matter should come before a synod , for all in a synod wanteth authority and power to censure , as you thinke , yet to complaine to a synod is an acknowledgement of the authoritie of a synod , as christs order saith , matth. . . if hee neglect to heare them , tell it to the church . . what is the withdrawing of brotherly communion from obstinate sister churches , but as a amesius saith well , excommunication by proportion and analogie ? ergo , say i , in this a synod hath a synodicall authoritie over the churches within the bounds of the synod by proportion , for who can inflict a punishment of a church censure , by proportion answerable to excommunication , but a church , or a synodicall meeting , which hath the power of the church by proportion ? amesius would prove that a particular church cannot bee excommunicated , because a church cannot bee cast out of communion with it selfe , for then she should bee cast out of herselfe . but this argument with reverence of so learned and godly a man , proveth onely that a particular church cannot excommunicate herselfe , which i grant , but it concludeth not , but a particular obstinate church may bee excommunicated out of the societie of all sister churches , who meeting in a synod in the name of jesus christ have power to save the spirits of sister churches in the day of the lord , and are to edifie them by counsell and rebuking , as the author granteth , and why not by an authoritative declaring that they will have no communion with such an obstinate sister or rather daughter church ? wee have never , saith the author , been put to the utmost extent of this dutie , the lord hitherto preventing by his grace , yet it is our dutie . the church , cant. . tooke care not onely for her owne members , but also for her little sister , that had no brests , and would have taken care , if having breasts they had been distempered with corrupt milke : if the apostles had a care of all the churches , cor. . . is that spirit of grace and love dead with them ? ought not all the churches to care for sister churches , if not , virtute officii , by vertue of an office , yet intuitu charitatis , for charities sake ? answ. that you have never beene put to these duties to the utmost , will never prove that the government is of god , for corinth , ephesus , pergamus , thyatira , which were glorious churches by your owne confession , were put to a necessitie of the utmost extent of these duties ; yea it proveth your government to bee rather so much the worse , because christs government is opposed by secret enemies in the church . . you make the spirit of love in a pastorall care over other churches to bee dead , because none have any pastorall care over any other churches , but the particular congregation over which they are pastors , and pastorall love to unconverted ones , as pastorall , you utterly deny . the last way of communion ( saith the author ) is by propagation or multiplication , which is , as the apostles had immediat calling from god to travell through the world , and to plant churches , so have particular churches given to them immediatly from christ , the fulnesse of measure of grace , which the inlargement and establishment of christs kingdome doth require , that is , when the bee-hive a parishionall congregation is surcharged , they have power to send forth their members , to enter , by covenant , in church-state amongst themselves , and may commend to them such able gifted ministers , as they thinke may bee ministers in that young church . answ. . this way of inlarging christs kingdome is defective . . it sheweth the way of inlarging the number of invisible churches , and multitudes of converts into new incorporations , but doth shew no way how to plant soules who were non-converts , and branches of the wild olive in christ jesus , and to make new visible churches ; but it is certaine that the apostles as apostles , and as pastors , by vertue of their office converted obstinate sinners to the faith of christ , and planted them in a visible church , consisting of professors of the faith , partly converted , partly not converted ; but the pastors by your doctrine have no power as pastors , or by any pastorall authoritie , to plant the gospell where it hath never beene , that pastorall spirit is dead with the apostles ; and in this , contrary to all reason and sense , and contrary to the scriptures , you make private christians the successors of the apostles to plant churches , and to convert soules , and to make them fit materialls for the visible church of regenerate persons ; for pastors as pastors , and visible churches as visible churches doe nothing at all to the multiplying of churches , seeing pastors and visible churches as they are such , by your doctrine , are but nurses to give suck to those who are already converted , but not fathers to convert them ; for private christians , or pastors as christians gifted to prophesie , not as pastors , doe multiply churches , and convert men to christ , as you teach , now wee all know that nurses as nurses doe not propagate , or by generation multiply people in the common-wealth , that fathers and mothers onely can doe ; your churches have no ministeriall breasts , but to give suck to babes who are already borne : but wee see by your doctrine no ministeriall power of pastors or churches to send forth members to enter in a church covenant , or to enter in a new church relation of a daughter , or a sister visible church ; if they send a number to bee a new church , your pastors or visible church did not multiply them , it is presumed they were converts , before they were members of the visible church , which now sendeth them out ; and if they bee multiplied in the bosome of your visible church and converted , they were not truely members of that visible church before their conversion , and also that they were not converted by any publike ministery , but by private christians gifted to prophesie , who are the onely successors of the apostles to plant visible churches : but what pastorall authoritie have you to send them forth to bee a new visible church ? none at all ? they have as beleevers power to remove from you , and because of multiplication , to make themselves a new church , and this ministeriall power of making themselves a new church they have not from you , but from their fathers who converted them , so that you make a visible church within a visible church , but not a church begotten or borne of a visible church , as a child of the mother ; and wee desire a word of god , either precept , promise , or practise of such a church multiplication , mans word is not enough . . wee hold that the sending of the apostles to all the world was not in it selfe , that which essentially distinguisheth the apostle from the now ordinary pastor , who is fixed to a single congregation , but the gift of tongues to preach to all the world upon the lords intention to send the gospel to all nations , that as many as were chosen to life , might beleeve , was that which essentially differenceth the apostle from the ordinary pastor , together with a speciall revelation of god , to goe to such and such people , to macedonia , and not yet to bythinia . and now seeing these two are taken away , the ordinary pastors which now are , have as pastors a sufficient calling to preach the gospel to all nations , to whom by gods providence they shall come , and can understand their language , whether of their owne congregation or not . neither is a pastor tied as a pastor by gods word , to one onely congregation , for then it should bee unlawfull for a pastor as a pastor to plant a new church ; but shall it bee lawfull for private christians to plant new churches , who are not the apostles successors , and yet it shall bee unlawfull for pastors , who are the undoubted successors of the apostles , to plant new churches ? i would think that admirable doctrine , for so you give to private christians that which you make essentiall to the apostles , and you deny it to the undoubted successors of the apostles , to wit , to pastors . but we hold a lawfull pastor is a pastor in relation to all the world , with this distinction , hee is by christs appointment and the churches a pastor to all congregations , to plant and water , and preach , but by speciall designation of gods providence , and the churches appointment designed and set apart for such a determinate flock , just as the apostles in generall were made pastors to all the world , matth. . go teach all nations , but by speciall revelation and apostolick appointment , peter was appointed the apostle of the jewes , paul of the gentiles , gal. . . yet paul was a pastor in relation to the jewes , and peter also in relation to the gentiles : so by speciall revelation , act. . they are forbidden to preach the word in bythinia , and commanded to preach it elsewhere ; and for this cause , pious antiquity , as morton a observeth , called some learned fathers pastors of the world , b athanasius is saluted pontifex maximus , as russinus saith , and origen magister ecclesi●rum , master of the churches , so c hieronymus , and cyprian totius orbis praeses , cyp●ian the bishop of all the world , yea and pope , so d nazianz. hilarius is called by e augustine insignis ecclesiae doctor , a renowned teacher of the church , and f nazianzenus calleth basilius the light of the word , and g damascenus the light of the whole world , and h theodoret saith chrysostome is called totius orbis terrarum doctor , the doctor and teacher of the whole world : all which titles saith evidently that antiquitie beleeved never a pastor , or bishop , not to bee a pastor onely in relation to the one single congregation , whereof hee is pastor , but a pastor in relation to the whole visible church , though by designation of the church his ministery bee appropriated to one particular church . thus it is cleare that our brethren deny all communion of churches , while they confine a visible church to one onely single and independent congregation , subjected in its visible government to christ jesus immediatly , and to no universall visible church or synod on earth . quest. ii. whether the magistrate hath power to compell persons to a church profession ? anent magistrates sundry things are questioned to make presbyteriall government odious . and first our brethren complaine that our churches are constitute by the authoritie of the magistrate , i robinson saith , it was a presumptuous enterprise , that people were haled against their will into covenant with god , to sweare obedience to the protestant faith , being a profane multitude , living before in grosse idolatry , and that by the authority of the supreme magistrate , for the commandement of the magistrate ( say they ) can make no members of the visible church , or of christs body , because it is a voluntary act of obedience to christ , that men adjoyne themselves to the visible church ; ergo , none can be compelled thereunto by the authoritie of the magistrate ; faith may bee counselled , it cannot bee compelled . for the clearing of this question , these considerations are to bee weighed . . the magistrate may compell to the meanes , and externall acts of worship , and to desisting from externall false worship of the false god , or of the true god worshipped in a false way , hee cannot compell to internall acts of faith , love , and such like , as having no power over the conscience . . there is one consideration of a heathen or pagan nation which never received christianitie , and the true faith , and another consideration of a nation baptized and professing christ. . a magistrate may compell a heathen nation to the negative reverence of christ in a indirect way , and that with the sword , though he cannot compell to the positive worshipping of him : if a christian prince subdue a pagan nation , hee cannot force them with the sword to a positive receiving of the doctrine of the gospell , but if it bee a nation expressely blaspheming christ , as the nation of the jewes now do , hee may compell them to an abstinence from a professed blaspheming of christ , because he is to use the sword against blasphemy . . the weapons of the church as the church are not carnall , but spiritual and mightie through god. . the compelling power of the magistrate is terminated upon externall worship as abstracted from either hypocrisie or sinceritie in worship , . though no man resist the magistrate in a matter of religion , except in a hypocriticall way , save onely he who thinketh hee hath reason 〈◊〉 , and is led by the judgement and inditement of conscience to resist , ●et is not the in litement of conscience , but onely the word of god ●et rule of mans obedience , or resisting in actions , purposes & conversation . . conclusion . fire and sword , or warre , or the coactive power of a magistrate is not gods way of planting the gospell in a heathen nation , which never heard of the gospell before . . because the apostles were commanded , by teaching the gospell to all nations , matth. . , . mark. . . act. . . and not by warre , to spread the gospel . . because christs kingdome is not of this world , for then his servants would fight for him , joh. . . nor are the weapons of our warfare carnall , cor. . . nor is christs sword any other thing , then the word of god , rev. . . gal. . . and in this meaning , and with relation to the internall acts of sound beleeving , have the learned taught us , that , religio suaderi potest , cogi non potest : if these bee the constitutions of a clemens , let it goe for a truth in this sense , that god hath given libertie of will to men , not punishing them with temporall death , but calleth them to give an account of ●●eir doings , in the life to come : which yet cannot bee universally true , except that the author with anabaptists take away the power of the civill magistrate ; and b athanasius meaned with us , when hee citeth that , if any will come after me , let him take up his crosse ; to prove that the will cannot bee compelled ; and that of c lactantius is approved by all , defendenda tamen religioest , non occidendo , sed moriendo , non saevitiâ , sed sapientiâ , non s●●lere , sed fide ; illa enim malorum sunt , baec bonorum ; & necesse est bonum in religione versari , non malum : nam si sanguine , si tormentis , si malo religionem defendere velis , jam non defendetur illa , fed polluetur , & violabitur . nihil est tam voluntarium quam religio , in qua si animus sacrificantis est eversus , jam sublata , jam nulla est : all which tendeth to this , that religion is like free-will , and free-will like a virgin which cannot bee ravished . let that of d tertullian stand , lex nostra non se vindicat ultore gladio● e procopius saith that justinian was blamed , because hee compelled the samaritans to imbrace the christian faith . . conclusion . a christian prince subduing a heathen nation , may compell them to desist from a negative dis●onouring of christ , and from an externall false worship . dan. . . therefore i make a decree , that every people , nation , and language , which speake any thing amisse against the god of sadrach and abednego , shall be cut in peeces , and their houses shall be made a dung●ill . . the magistrate beareth not the sword for nothing , or invaine , for he is the minister of god , a revenger to execute wrath on those who doe evill , rom. . . therefore he should be gods minister to execute wrath on those who dishonour christ. nor must we approve of that of tiberius , f that gods take care of wrongs dene to themselves : and that of the emperour alexander , g it 's sufficient that the breach of an oath hath god to be the revenger . yet the emperour h constantine commanded all the churches of the pagan gods to be closed up , and i ambrose and k augustine both commended the fact ; and ferdinand king of spaine , commanded all the jewes , who would not turne christians , to remove out of spaine . . conclus . where a nation hath embraced the faith , and sworne thereunto in baptisme , it is lawfull for the magistrate to compell them to professe that truth to the which they have sworne in baptisme . . because the magistrate is a keeper of both tables of the law. ergo , he may take care that these who are baptized , and sworne to be followers of christ , should professe what they have sworne to professe . . because the magistrate may compell , ad actus imperatos , non ad actus elicitos , commanded and externall acts of worship , though he have no power over the conscience to command the elicit acts of will and mind . . he may command to use the meanes of religion , though he cannot force religion it selfe : and this jehoshaphat , ezechiah , asa , and josiah , and other good kings commanded , and in that are set forth to all princes as patterns of zeale . . the most pungent argument of our brethren in the contrary is of no weight , because ( say they ) for one to adjoyn himself to the visible church in a profession of the faith , it is a supernaturall worke of grace , and must be voluntary , else the magistrate should compell men to hypocrisie , yea and he should , saith l gregorius de valentia , following cajetanus , indirectly concurre to sacriledge , to profane the holy things of god ; and feare of punishment maketh an action against the will , secundum quid , in some respect , and for the point of supernaturality of professing , m durandus handleth it . now ( i say ) that this is of no weight , because ( as n suarez . saith ) one may be compelled to heare the word , who yet cannot be compelled to beleeve ; so ( say i ) to make such a profession , as may constitute any one a member of the visible church , is no supernaturall act , though there be a morall obligation tying the professours to the supernaturall sincerity of the act , yet there is no essentiall obligation , as touching the essence of a visible member tying him thereunto , and therefore the magistrate may compell thereunto , and so o antonius following p gregorius doe teach that an indirect compulsion to the faith is lawfull ; and the compelling power of the magistrate is terminated upon the profession , not upon the hypocrisie of the profession ; else it were as good an argument to prove that the magistrate by the sword cannot compell subjects to ab●taine from murther , sorcery , perjury ; because many in an hypocriticall and servile manner , for feare of the magistrates wrath , not for feare of god , doe abstaine from these ils , nor is their abstinence from worshipping idols , a thing of it selfe , as the magistrate commandeth it , supernaturall . neither would men by the covenant of the lord , which king asa did cause the people to sweare , to wit , that they should seeke the lord god of their fathers , chron. . . be compelled , so as their seeking of god , should not be willingly performed . . this opinion is the way to arminian liberty of conscience , that men in a christian common-wealth , may be of any religion , and the magistrate is to behold men as an indifferent spectator , not caring what religion they bee of , whether they be papists , jewes , pagans , anabaptists , socinians , macedonians , &c. which should inferre , that the magistrate were no nurse-father of the true church , nor yet a preserver of religion , if men might be of any religion . neither is this the way ( as saith q robinson ) to the papists implicite faith , when men beleeveth , as the church beleeveth , though they know not what it is : nor is it a compelling of men ( as he saith ) to blasphemy , and apparent wickednesse , because the magistrate is not to compell to profession of the truth immediately , and without any foregoing information of the mind ; for the church is to teach and instruct in all the externall acts of worship , before the magistrate doth compell to these acts ; yea and the same r robinson acknowledgeth that jehoshaphat made compulsive lawes about religion . ergo , if he should execute these lawes , he should compell to some acts of religion , and should compell to hypocrisie , as the same mr. robinson argueth against us . . conclus . it is one thing to command acts of divine worship , under the paine of civill punishment , and another thing to punish , or inflict civill punishment , when these commandements are transgressed , christian princes may doe both . and that they doe the latter by gods commandement and warrant is cleare , in that jehu destroyed all the house of ahab for idolatry , and killed baals priests . good josiah killed the priests of the high places , and burnt their bones upon the altar . elias , when the magistrate would not doe his duty , in an extraordinary way , killed baals priests ; and if the magistrate also in the new testament have the sword given to him of god , for the punishing of evill doers , as rom. . , . that same law must now also have force , though in the use of the sword sundry hereticks are here to be distinguished , as . seducing hereticks , drawing others away , from the worship of the true god to idolatry , such are not to be pitied by the magistrate , as deut. . , , . zach. . , , . whereas seduced , and drawne away soules , for simple heresie , cannot be put to death . . hereticks falling away in many particulars from the faith to popery , or other hereticall wayes , are more severely to be punished , then those who are hereticks in one or two fundamentall points onely . and those who are universall apostates , and fall from the christian faith to judaisme and paganisme , deserve no lesse then death . . selfe-condemned hereticks , after sufficient information , and malitious opposers of the truth , deserve harder dealing , then simply seduced hereticks . . all who beleeve blasphemies to be truth , and hold them , are not to be reckoned amongst formall blasphemers , whose malice carrieth them on to raile upon the unspotted wayes of god. . no hereticks having false opinions of god , such as antinomians and libertines , who thinke that the regenerate cannot sinne , or that the worshipping of a creature is not idolatry , can be innocent , as if ●●●mply acts of the judgement and mind not conforme to gods will revealed in his word were not sinnes , ( as arminians teach ) whereas all the faculties of the soule are under gods law. . hardly doth the mind conceive false thoughts of god , or his worship , but there be wicked crookes in the will and affections inclining thereunto the mind , and smoaking the mind with will-guiltinesse . . except god was too rigorous and cruell in the old testament ( god avert such blasphemous thoughts ) what ever punishment even to bloud and death was inflicted upon hereticks , seducing prophets , idolaters , apostates , these same stande yet in the plentitude of morall obligation against such as offend in the new testament , if the magistrate beare the lords sword , as he doth in the new testament , rom. . , . monfortius the anabaptist as s beza saith , had no scripture to say , because christ is a meeke saviour , all corporall punishment inflicted upon hereticks in the old testament , is turned over in spirituall punishment ; onely our brethren who deny that the magistrate can compell any to an externall profession of the gospel , doe herein follow arminians and socinians . so the t re●onstrants , and w episcopius deny that the magistrate can use any bodily punishment against hereticks . the learned x professors of leiden observe that arminians here teach that same with the socinians , and the same is refuted well by y vedelius , yea and gerardus , and z mersnerus , and other pretended disciples of luther in this side with arminians and socinians : and socinians teach in this , . that hereticks should not be molested nor punished with the sword . so a socinus , b theophilus nicolaides , c ostorodius , because the tares are not to be rooted out till harvest . . d episcopius , e slatius amongst arminians , and f ostorodius , and g the catechise of raccovia teach farther , that the magistrate may punish by fines and pecuniall mulcts , but he cannot shed bloud , or punish to death any murtherer , because the commandement of our meeke saviour , doth not permit to take away any mans life ; now it is certaine meeke jesus , while hee was on earth , did neither fine nor imprison , more then put to death . . so●inians teach that all warres under the new testament are unlawfull ; for saith smal●ius , h warres cannot consist with the 〈◊〉 of our enemie , commanded by christ : i socinus and ostorodius say it is an old precept not to shed blood , and never retracted in the new testament , and god licenced it to the jewes , because he promised to them an earthly kingdome , which hee hath not now promised under the new testament . our divines hold ringleading and seducing hereticks are to bee punished to death , for so k beza , l junius , m bucanus , n zanchius , o perkinsius , p daneus , q bullingerus , r the professors of leiden teach . all that can be said commeth to this , that hereticks should not bee punished , . s cyprian saith to demetrius that hee was greater then his gods , because he revenged the wrongs done to his gods , and that it was a shame for him to hope for helpe from the gods which hee behooved to defend . answ. this proveth that the false gods of demetrius were but false gods , because they were not able to revenge the wrongs done to themselves , as the true god , who made the heaven and the earth , can doe , but nothing against the punishing of the hereticks , for then it should follow , that blasphemy against the holy ghost , and no sinnes should bee punished , for all sinnes are injuries done to god , and therefore neither magistrates , nor parents , nor doctors , yea nor the church should use any rod , either corporall or spirituall , against subjects , children , or scandalous persons , because god can revenge his owne quarrell ; yea excommunication is a revenging of a wrong done to god. . they object the apostles way was to watch against hereticks , act. . . . and rom. . . to es●hew them , tim. . . the servant of the lord must bee gentle . answ. this is objected by t gerardus , as also because they may bee converted , ergo , they are not to bee killed , christ would not have fire comming downe from heaven to destroy the sa 〈◊〉 , for afterward they were converted ; but wee thinke not any should be put to death for simple heresie , as u mus●u●us and whittaker teach , they are to bee instructed , censured , x rebuked , eschewed , but though ananias and saphira might bee converted , peter strake them with death , and paul did right in ●iking elymas the sorcerer with blindnesse , act. . because he laboured to turne away sergius paulus from the faith , these were extraordinary judgements , but yet they doe well prove that where the magistrate is armed with authority , hee ought to inflict bodily punishment upon the seducing hereticks , so it hee done as y augustine saith , animo corrigendi , non vindicandi . see z beza , a professors of leyden , and what elias did by an extraordinary power in killing baals priests , that achab the then supreme magistrate should have done . . they object that it is contrary to the meeke spirit of christ in the new testament , that any should bee punished for heresie , and that it is proper to enemies of the truth , and antichrist so to doe , as their b practise declare . nestorius being made archbishop of constantinople , said to the emperour , i will give thee heaven o emperour , if thou with free the earth of hereticks ; dioscorus compelled , with armed souldiers , the bishops to subseribe to the heresie of entyches ; eud●xius the arrian obliged valens the arrian emperour to root out 〈◊〉 orthodox professors . the turke in his alcoran commandeth to kill all who obey not his law . answ. the sword is expressely given by god , rom. . to christian magistrates , and this is not against the meeknesse of christ , no more nor to deliver to satan , or to curse and excommunicate apostats with that great curse called anath●ina maranatha , cor. . . and though hereticks and mahomet teach that hereticks , as also they teach that manslayers , adulterers , paricides should die the death , it followeth not that we are not to teach the same . fourthly , the parable of letting the tares grow , while the day of judgement is alleaged . it is true c chrysostome saith that many innocent persons are killed in the rooting out the tares by bloody warres ; d chrysologus saith , neither matthew the publican , nor paul should have beene comerted , if the sword had beene used , and augustine e seemeth to call the tares haereticorum falsitates , and f theophylact , zizania sunt haereses . but i answer , christ exponeth the tares 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , syriace 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 g beza , filii illius improbi , h erasmus diaboli , the children of the devill , and theophylact addeth , zizania sunt h●reses , vel malae cogitationes , and gerardus perverteth theophylact , for he extendeth the tares not onely to hereticks , but also to wicked men , to matthew who was a publican , but not a heretick properly . and first the field is the world of the visible church , where the seed of the word is sowne , and it must bee meaned of all scandalous persons in christs visible kingdome , so all shall bee spared , and there shall neither bee use of the magistrates sword , nor of the church discipline in the church , as anabaptists expone the place . . there should not so much as rebukes and threatnings beene used , but wicked men should bee permitted to grow , while the day of judgement , that the angels root them out . now it is knowne that the power of the word preached hath rooted out some tares , because it hath converted them . . hereticks are not all things which offend ; the incestuous corinthian offended also . . onely hereticks are not such as worke iniquitie , there bee others also in the visible church , as our brethren expone , revel . . . nor are onely hereticks to be cast out in the furnace of fire , where there shall bee weeping and gnashing of teeth . . nor are onely the good wheat those who are orthodox and opposite to hereticks , who shall shine as the sunne in the kingdome of their father , p. . . except wee would say that all sound in the faith and holding no hereticall doctrine shall shine in the firmament as the sun. . the casting out of hereticks out of the visible church by excommunication is a rooting of them out of the field of the visible church ; let more of this be seen and considered in those who have written thereof , as in g●rardus , loc . cit . beza de puniend . haeret. bellarm. de laicis , c. . costerus enchirid. de mori●us haereticor . pelr. gregorius , lib. . de repub . c. . suarez . de tripl . virtut . theolog . disp . . sect . . gregorius de valent. 〈◊〉 . . disp . l. q. . punc . . jus canonicum c. quid autem . dist . . meiser . lib. . de legibus , sect . . ● . , , . lipsius l. . 〈◊〉 . c. . co●●d b●unus , l. . de haeretic . c. . paulus windeck . lib. de exs●irpandis haeretic . appendix . a further consideration of compelling , or tolerating , those of contrary religions and sects in the church . wee still hold ( as is already said ) that christian magistrates cannot compell pagans to embrace the christian faith . nor can the church in a church-way compell pagans or jewes comming to remaine amongst us christians , because pagans are to bee gathered to a church , by the preaching of the word , and by that way that the apostles planted churches , which was by the sword of the spirit only , as matth. . , . cor. . . . cor. . , , . but the argument which the a jesuit tannerus , & other papists bring for it , i judge most weake , for they will not have them compelled to the faith , because , . faith is a voluntary and free act , . because it is a supernaturall worke of god , and so they are not under the stroake of the magistrates sword ; for freewill in supernaturall acts is alike uncogible and free from all externall violence , in both those who are baptized professors within the bosome of the visible church , and in pagans ; and the truth is , neither the magistrate nor the church can censine opinions , even erronious in fundamentall points , as they are opinions ; for no societie , no humane authoritie can either judge of , or punish the internall acts of the mind , because as such they are indeed offensive to god , but not offensive or scandalous to either church or commonwealth , and so without the spheare of all humane coercive power : nor is titus , tit. . to rebuke gainesiyers , v. . that they may be sound in the faith , v. . but in so farre as that faith is visible , and as it commeth out of perverse mouthes , which must be stopped , v. . also punishments either civill or ecclesiasticall do no other wayes worke upon the mind and heart , but by a morall & swasory influence , for it is a palpable contradiction , that freewil can physically be compelled , & therefore here ( saith b philip gamacheus ) there is no need of an emperours sword , but of a fishers angle . let it goe then , which is taught as a truth , in this point , by c covarruvias , ( e ) gregori . de valent. e gamacheus , f tannerus , g malderus , that princes have neither from the law of nature , or from any divine law , a coercive power over the faith of pagans ; nor is h scotus in this to bee heard , that the same divine law obliegeth all princes , and the churches , that did lie upon israel to destroy the cansanites . yet may it bee lawfull in some cases indirectly to force them , in their false worship , ( as i molina saith against k alphonsus a castro ) if they kill their innocent children to their false gods , because it is lawfull to defend the innocent ; neither is that to bee regarded , as a sufficient reason that these infants doe not consent , that they should bee defended , because as l malderus saith it is lawfull to hinder a man , who is willing to kill himselfe , from unjust violence against his owne li● . . it is lawfull as saith m aegidius conin k , n lorca , o aquinas , and p cajetanus , to compell pagans to desist from violent impeding of pastors to preach the gospell to some amongst them , who are willing to heare , because in that they are injurious to the salvation of those , who are appointed to bee saved , and doe manifestly hinder the gospels progresse , which the church is ( so farre as is in her power ) to propagate , even as her prayer is , let thy kingdome come . d . nor doe we thinke that princes may compell pagans , who are under their dominions , to the faith , without foregoing information of their conscience , or that simply they may compell them to embrace the faith ; except that here princes have greater libertie , indirectly to force them , because they being now living ( as wee suppose ) in a visible church , they may infect the church , and therefore here should bee an indirect hindering of the exercise of their false religion , in so farre as it is infectious to the church of god , ne pars sincera trahatur : for to this by a certaine proportion the power of excommunication given to the church by christ , may lead us , cor. . . and if wee must live by lawes , and not by examples , q paul the fourth his suffering of the jewes synagogues at rome , and their ancient feasts , which faith r malderus ) of themselves are not evill , is no law to us , yea but s to christians it is a falling from christ , and his grace ; nor is t rome who tolerateth jewith religion , nor the u edict of honorius and theodosius our warrant . . nor can wee beleeve , that no other sinnes , in opinion , concerning god , his nature , attributes , worship and church-discipline , ( except onely such as are against those points , which are called fundamentall , and the received principles of christianitie ) should bee censurable by the church , or punishable by the magistrate . . because jesus christ , mat. . ordaineth that every sin against our brother , or a church , cor. . , . in which the delinquent shall continue , with obstinate refusall to heare the church , should bee censured with excommunication . but there bee divers opinions concerning god , his nature , attributes , worship and church-discipline , which are not against points fundamentall , which being professed are sinnes against our brother and the churches . ergo , many opinions not against points fundamentall , if professed , are censurable by the church , and punishable by the magistrate . i prove the proposition , because christ , matth ▪ . maketh no distinction and exception of any sinne , but saith universally , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if thy brother trespasse against thee , &c. and wee can make no exception against an indefinit and catholick statute , and ordinance of jesus christ. i prove the assumption : because there bee many scandalous points of arminianisme , pelagianisme , of poperic anent church government , traditions , the power and ●fficacie of grace , circumci●ion , forbidding of marriages , and of meates , which are doctrines of devills , comming from such , as have consciences burnt with an hot iron , tim. . , , . many points of anabaptisme , antinomianisme , socinianisme , and of divers other sects are not points fundamentall , because many ( no doubt ) are glorified , who lived and beleeved in christ and died ●gnorant of either opinions , either on the one side or the other , & yet being professed , preached and maintained , especially wilfully and obstinately , do wonderfully scandalize our brethren and the churches . nor can i say that such as beleeve that marriage of churchmen is unlawfull , and defend it , as many holy and learned men in popery did , and died in that error , if otherwise they beleeve in christ , and the like i say of chastising the body , and abstaining from such and such meates , which yet are doctrines of devills , and offensive to our brethren , tim. . , , . can bee points fundamentall , so as the holding of these must bee inconsistent with saving faith . some doe yet maintain that circumcision is lawfull , and yet beleeve all points fundamentall ; shall wee say , that such are damned ? and wee read , gal. . . beh●ld i paul say unto you , that if yee bee circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . . opinions in points not fundamentall , are either sinnes forbidden by gods law , or they are not sinnes ; the latter can by no reason bee asserted , because god hath in his word determined all controversies not fundamentall , as well as fundamentall , therefore it is necessary , necessitate praecepti , by vertue of a divine precept , that ●ee beleeve that to bee true , what god saith in his word , therefore the not beleeving of it must bee a sinne and a transgression of a divine law. . if it bee no sinne , it must bee because the mind is under no law of god , except in so far as the minde is ruled and led by the dominion of free-will ; but this is pelagianisme and arminianisme , and papists and pelagians will needs examine the inclinations , powers , and motions of the soule , which goe before the wills consent , or arise in us without the wills consent , from all subjection to a law , that so originall sinne may bee no sinne , because ( as p●●agius said ) it is not voluntary , and concupiscence , when the will joyneth no consent to it , is no sinne ; yea so the unbeleefe and ignorance of fundamentall points , as they remaine in the mind , shall bee no sinne . . if this bee no sinne , we are not to pray for illumination , to see either the truth on the one side , nor on the other ; and what actions wee doe according to these opinions , in things not fundamentall , wee doe them not with any certaintie of faith , or any plerophorie , but blindly , or doubtingly , and so sinfully , which is expresly condemned , rom. . . and is expressely against that full assurance of faith , that wee are to have in those very actions , which in their owne nature are indifferent , as is evident , rom. . . i know and am perswaded by the lord jesus , that there is nothing uncleane of it selfe , ● . . let every one bee fully perswaded in his owne mind . . if they be not sinnes , then are none to bee rebuked for these opinions , no more then they are to bee excommunicated for them , and though any erre in points not fundamentall , they are not to bee rebuked , yea nor to bee convinced of them by the light of the word . ( . ) if they bee sinnes , then when they are publickly prosested , they must scandalize our brother , but there bee no sinnes which scandalize our brother , but they are susceptible and in capacitie to bee committed with obstinacie ; every sinne sub ratione scandali , is the subject of church-censure ; yea i●m . . . every one is to bee avoyded , who causeth divisions , and 〈◊〉 es contrary to the doctrine which the church hath learned of the apostles , and every one who walketh disorderly , thess. . . and 〈◊〉 not the commandement of the apostles , is to bee excommunicated , 〈◊〉 hee bee ashamed , v. . but opinions contrary to the apostles doctrine in non-fundamentalls , are not fundamentalls , and if they bee professed , cause divisions and offences contrary to the apostolik doctrine , for many non-fundamentalls are the apostles doctrine . . what ever tendeth to the subversion of fundamentalls , tende●●●● 〈…〉 to the subversion of faith , and so doth much truly scandaliz●an● bring on damnation , that christ hath ordained to be removed out of the church by church-censures : but erroneous opinions , in points not fundamentall , and in superstructures , being professed and instilled in the eares and simple mindes of others , tend to the subversion of fundamentalls , as having connexion , by just consequent , with fundamentalls , and doe scandalize and bring on doubtings about the foundation , and so bring damnation . ergo , erroneous opinions , in points not fundamentall , must be removed out of the church by church-censures . the proposition is cleare , he that falleth in a publicke scandalous sinne is to be delivered to satan , both for his owne sake , that he be not damned himselfe , but that cor. . . to the destruction of the flesh , the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord ; and so also for others , because a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump , v. . the assumption is proved by dayly experience , for corruption in discipline and government in the church of rome , brought on corruption in doctrine , and the same did we find in the churches of scotland and england . . fundamentalls are no other thing , then that which the apostle calleth , heb. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the first principles of the oracles of god , and ch . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the doctrine of the principles of christ , which are laid as foundations , as ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not laying the foundation againe , &c. then non-fundamentalls must be such superstructures as are not the first principles of the oracles of god , and are not the doctrine of the principles of christ. but the apostle will not have us to fluctuate and doubt as skeptickes , in a py●rhonian vacillation and uncertainty , in these , which he calleth the superstructures . . as is evident by his words : of whom we have many things to say , and hard to be uttered , but you are dull of hearing . . for when , for the time , yee ought to be teachers , yee have need that one teach you againe , which be the first principles of the oracles of god , and are become such as have neede of milke , and not of strong food . . for every one that useth milke is unskilfull in the word of righteousnesse : for he is a babe . . but strong meate belongeth to them that are of full age , even those who by reason of use , have their senses exercised to discerne both good and evill . chap. . . therefore leaving the doctrine of the beginning of christ , let us goe on unto perfection , not laying againe the foundation of repentance from dead workes , &c. whence it is more then evidently apparent to any intelligent mind . . that when he saith , they ought to be teachers of others , he cannot be thought to meane that they should teach fundamentalls onely to others , because he would have them to be capable of the food of such as are stronger , and have their senses exercised to discerne good and ill , and will have them carried on to perction : now fundamentalls are expressely the foode of babes which b●● neede of milke , c. . v. . and not the foode of the stronger ; if then they ought to teach superstructures , and non-fundamentalls to others , they cannot teach and exhort privately , ( for of such he speaketh ) these things whereof they have no certainty of faith , and which they beleeve with a reserve , as ready to reject them to morrow , upon second thoughts , for what we teach to others , those ( as i conceive ) we are oblieged to speake , because we beleeve . psal. . . cor. . . and those we are to perswade , because we know ( not with a reserve , but with certainty of faith ) the terror of the lord , cor. . . if it be said , teachers now are not oblieged to know all that they teach now to be divine truths , with such a certainty of faith , as prophets and apostles , who were ledde by an infallible spirit : for our private exhorting , our publick sermons come not from a spirit , as infallible as that spirit which spake and wrote canonick scripture , for we may erre in exhorting , in preaching , in writing , but the pen-men of canonick scripture were infallible . i answer , the pen-men of scripture when they did speak and write scripture , were infallible . & de jure , & de facto , they could neither erre actually , and by gods word they were oblieged not to erre , and in that they were freer from error , then we are , who now succeed them to preach and write ; but what god hath revealed in his word , whether they be fundamentalls or superstructures , doth obliege us to belief and certainty of faith , no lesse then it obliegeth the pen-men of scripture ; and our certainty of saving faith , is as infallible as the faith of the prophets and apostles , except with papists we say no man can be assured that he is in the state of grace . if therefore we be oblieged to beleeve all revealed superstructures , though not fundamentall , as the prophets and apostles were , we sinne scandalously ( when obstinacie is added to ignorance ) if we beleeve them with such a reserve as is contrary to faith , and because there is no ignorance of those who teach others , but it is capable of ob●tinacie , and consequently it is capable of church censure , matth. . . i grant the weake and unlearned , though ignorant of their christian liberty , in that interim , and case when many things are indifferent , as the case was , rom. . though they be instructed by paul sufficiently , that nothing is uncleane , and that they erre in that , out of an erring consciences light , or rather darkenesse , they abstain from such and such meates as gods law hath now made lawfull to both jew and gentile , yet are they not to be censured , nor troubled with thorny disputations , but if these weake ones , . persist in their error , and . teach it to others and mislead them , they knowing that they beleeve these errors with a reserve , are ( as i conceive ) false teachers , and censurable by the church and state , and not weake , but obstinate . . we are not to be dull of hearing , but are to be fully instructed , und certainly perswaded so of superstructures , which are not the first principles of the oracles of god , as that we are to teach others . ergo , a pyrrbonian fluctuation in these , is damnable . how then can it be a principle , next to gods word , most to bee followed , not to make our present judgement and practise , in matters not fundamentall , a binding law to us for the future ? . the apostle ought not to rebuke them for being dull of hearing of those things , whereof either sides may be beleeved , in a necessary case of syncretisme and pacification , without any hazard of punishment or church-censures ; for what is a necessary principle , and to be holden and enacted , as the most sacred law of all others , next unto the word of god , the matter of that principle being unknowne , and neither sides understood , received , or beleeved , cannot put on any the rebuke of dull hearing : for example , if the point of presbyteriall government of the church , or of independencie of single congregations , be a point not to be received , with such certainty of faith and assurance , but we are to reject either , or both , when we shall receive new light , that they are false and contrary to the rule of holy scripture ; and againe , if we are to reject the opinion contradicent to these former points of presbyteriall government and independent congregations , for there is by this opinion , the same reason of the contradicent , as of the formerly affirmed opinions ; i see not how i may not be dull of hearing , yea how i may not simply be ignorant of both and not sinne against god. . those superstructures which are not fundamentall , are the strong persons food , as the knowledge of principles fundamentall is the food of babes , vers . , . then i must be perswaded of the truth of them , else they cannot feed my soule with knowledge , because knowledge of pyrrhonian fluctuation , which is conjecturall , and may be no lesse false then true , and which i must so beleeve for truth , as possible the tyde of a contrary light may carry me to beleeve the just contrary as truth , can never be the strong food of such as are skilled in the word of righteousnesse . . the knowledge of these superstructures or non-fundamentals belongeth to those who are of full age , and have their senses exercised to discerne both good and ill , vers . . and which are carried on to perfection , c. . v. . having now left the fundamentals , as food to babes and unskilled , c. . v. . but i heartily crave to learn , what perfection doewe arive unto ? and what encrease of fuller age , what experience of more spirituall knowledge , perfecting the spirituall senses , doe i attaine , to know certaine truths , which to me may be no lesse rotten conclusions , and meere forgeries of mens braines , then divine truths ? hence if this arminian liberty of prophecying , and this perpetuall fluctuation of men alwayes learning , and never comming to the knowledge of the truth ; be contrary to growing in the knowledge of our lord and saviour jesus christ , pet. . . and contrary to that which is called , cor. . . all knowledge , and to the abundance of knowledge , which in the last dayes , is to fill the earth , as the sea is filled with waters ; so that when i have once over-sailed that point of the coast of the knowledge of fundamentall articles , i am now in a sea of foure contrary winds , and foure contrary tydes at once , and i know nothing for truth , but its contradicent may be , yea , and to me is as true , ( i say ) if this fluctuation of knowledge be contrary to growing in knowledge , it must be rejected as a chimera , and the dreame of mens heads . . let us take one point not fundamentall , to wit this , ( every congregation hath absolute power of church government within it selfe , without subjection to classes , presbyteries , and synods ) you are so perswaded of the truth of this , that your present judgement and practice is no binding law to you , for the morrow ; but you leave roome in your judgement to beleeve , to morrow , the contradicent , when new light shall appeare . well then to morrow , this non-fundamentall , and this contradicent is now to you true , ( no congregation hath absolute power of church-government within it selfe , but hath its power in dependance upon , and with subjection unto classes , presbyteries , and synods . ) well , to morrow is come , and this you beleeve now to be gods truth , yet so , as your present judgement , and practice is no binding law to you , for the second morrow , but you leave roome for light , which shall appeare the second morrow ; well , in the second morrow , new light appeareth and convinceth you , that the contradicent is true , and you recurre in a circle , to beleeve your first proposition againe is true , to wit , the contradicent of your second dayes proposition , and now to you this is true , as it was once , ( every congregation hath absolute power of church-government within it selfe , without subjection to classes , presbyteries , and synods : ) now , on the third morrow , a new light appearing , you are to beleeve the contradicent ; and because all circular motions are in credit to be deemed eternall , and your mind is alwayes obliged to stoop and fall downe before new light , and the conscience is to render her selfe captive to every emergent truth : what can you here say but there is no end of fluctuations and doubtings ? but you say , gods spirit , the revealer of all truth , doth not fluctuate , though i change , god jebovah changeth not , he can reveale no contradictory truths , for one of them must be a lie , and he is the lord who cannot lie . answ. then i say , these non-fundamentals are in themselves and intrinsecally certaine , and if god reveale them in his word , he must reveale them under the notion of things certaine , and we are to beleeve them as certaine truths , having intrinsecall necessity in themselves from the authority of god the revealer , therefore i am not to beleeve them with a fluctuation of mind to casheere the truth of them , to morrow , and the next , and the third morrow . but you say , i doe beleeve non-fundamentals as they are revealed , now they are not revealed to me in the word , in that measure and degree of clearnesse and evidence of light , that fundamentall points of faith are revealed , therefore i may lawfully beleeve these non-fundamentals , which are lesse evidently revealed , with a reserve , that , upon the supposall , i see i had an error of judgement in taking them to be truths , whereas now i see them to be untruths , i doe renounce them ; but because fundamentals are clearely revealed , i am to beleeve them , without any reserve at all . answ. the degrees of revelation and proposals of truths to our minds , lesse or more , evident , or lesse evident , so they be revealed by god , in a sufficient measure of evidence , they free us from obligation of faith , in tanto , non in toto , as is cleare , john . . if i had not come to them , they should not have had sinne , the sin of unbeliefe , and in such a measure ; yet if god reveale these non-fundamentals , though not so perspicuously as he revealeth fundamentals , we are obliged to know them and beleeve them with certainty of faith , and upon this formall reason , because jehovah speaketh them in his word , no lesse then we are obliged to know and beleeve fundamentals : for our dulnesse and blindnes of mind doth not licence us to beleeve what god revealeth to us in his word with an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and a fluctuation of mind , no more then the naturall man is licenced to beleeve the fundamentals of the gospel with doubting , because they come in under the capacity of his understanding , as foolishnesse , cor. . . but , say you , upon supposall that our darkened hearts doe not see these non-fundamentals clearely , we are obliged to take their meaning and sense , with a reserve , and so to receive and entertaine the truths of these non-fundamentals , as we leave roome , upon supposall of our misapprehensions , to retract our judgement , and to beleeve the contrary of what we once beleeved , and this bindereth not but that we are simply and absolutely obliged to beleeve the non-fundamentalls . answ , if we be simply and absolutely obliged to beleeve non-fundamentals , though they be not so clearely revealed to us as the fundamentals , as no doubt we are , then doe we contrary to the morall obligation of a divine precept , and so sinne in beleeving , with a doubting and hesitation , of that which god hath revealed in his word : and when we beleeve gods truth with a reserve to retract our judgement , when a cleare light shall make naked to us our error , that revealed error , if revealed to be an error , by the lord speaking in his word , doth clearely evince that god never revealed , nor meant to reveale in his word , the former truth that was beleeved with a reserve , for god cannot reveale things contradictory , and out of the mouth of the lord commeth no untruth : therefore god in these non-fundamentals revealeth to us but one thing to be beleeved , and that absolutely without all reserves , for god can no more shine with a new light , to delare the contradicent of what he hath once revealed as truth , then he candeny himselfe , or lie ; which to assert were high blasphemy : and if the first truth of the non-fundamentall doe onely appeare truth to our understanding , and be no such thing , but in it selfe an untruth , then doth the god of truth reveale no such thing . . upon supposall that we see not the truth of these non-fundamentals clearly , we are neither to beleeve with a reserve , nor to beleeve them absolutely , nor yet are we to suspend our beliefe , because i conceive all the three to be sinfull , and we are never obliged to sinne , but we are obliged to know and beleeve simply without all reserve , having laid away our darke and confused conscience , and are to know clearely and beleeve firmely that god speaketh this , not this in his word ; nor , because i doe fluctuate about the truth of these non-fundamentals , am i obliged to follow in non-fundamentals the endictment of a fluctuating conscience , seeing holding the plenitude and plenary perfection of gods word , the lord hath no lesse manifested his will , in setting downe superstructures and non-fundamentals , in his word , then he hath revealed his mind to us in fundamentals . but our brethren prove that we may tolerate one another in diverse and contrary opinions about non-fundamentals , from phil. . . let us therefore , as many as be perfect , be thus minded : and if in any thing yee be otherwise minded , god shall reveale this unto you . . neverthelesse , whereunto we have already attained , let us walke by the same rule , let us mind the same thing . now there is nothing more opposite to this rule , then the practises of some , who will exclude and allow communion in nothing , where there is difference in anything . the labours of davenant and others in this needfull case of syncretisme and pacification in those times are very seasonable . i answer , i distinguish three things that may be judged the object of syncretisme or mutuall toleration . . fundamentalia , fundamentall points . . supra & circa fundamentalia , things that are builded on the foundation or superstructures , or things about the foundation , as many positive and historicall things that cannot result by good consequence off , or from the foundation , as that there were eight soules in noahs arke , and some rituals of gods institution in the sacrament of the supper and baptisme , &c. . praeter fundamentalia , things meerely physicall , not morall , having no influence in gods worship at all ; as such a day for meeting of an assembly of the church , wednesday rather then thursday ; a cloake when you pray in private , rather then a gowne ; these have , or contribute of themselves no morall influence to the action , as in what corner of your chamber you pray in private , these are meerely indifferent , and tolerance in these i would commend . it is true , there is a strict connexion often betwixt the physicall and the morall circumstances , so as the physicall circumstance doth put on , by some necessity , a morall habitude and respect , and then the physicall circumstance becommeth morall , as in what corner of your chamber you pray , it is meerely physicall and indifferent , but if that corner that you pray in , cast you obvious to the eyes of those who are walking in the streets , that they may see and heare your private prayers , then the place putteth on the morall respect of a savour of some pharisaicall ostentation , that you pray to be seene of men ; and so the circumstance now is morall , and is to be regulated by the word , whereas the circumstance that is meerely physicall is not , as it is such , in any capacity to receive scripturall regulation , nothing is required but a physicall convenience for the action . now for fundamentall superstructures , for things about the foundation , in so farre as they have warrant in the word , to me they oblige to faith and practises , in so farre as the lord intimateth to us in his word , either expressely , or by good consequence , that they are lawfull . now i may adde to these , that there be some things adjacent , circumvenient , circumstantiall to these fundamentals , superstructions , and others that i named , wherein mutuall tolerance is commendable ; nor doe we thinke any church reformation so perfect as that reformers have not left it in some capacity more or lesse of receiving increase and latitude of reformation ; but truely i doe not see the consequence , that therefore in all points not fundamentall the conscience must be of that compliable latitude of kid-leather to take in , and let out , so as none of these superstructures or non-fundamentals are to be beleeved but with a reserve , that you take them to day as gods truths , and are in capacity to beleeve their contradicents to be gods truth to morrow . and for the place , phil. . . . the sense given by zanchius pleaseth me . we that are reputed perfect , let us all think and mind this truth that i write , to contend for the price of the high-calling of god ; and if any mind any other thing contrary to , or diverse from my doctrine , god in his owne time shall reveale it to him . zanchius saith , deus id quoque revelabit suo tempore , nempe an falsum sit vel verum . god shall reveale it to him in his owne time , whether it be true or false : to which part i doe not subscribe ; that god shall reveale to any other minded then paul , whether his doctrine be true or false , for that may inferre a possibility that paul taught in this point , or in the matter of ceremonies , something false : but the meaning is , god shall make him know by the revelation of truth , that what i have taught is true ; and he addeth as zanchius , estius , cornelius à lapide , s●lmeron , yea our owne calvine , marlorat , and others , upon this condition , that they walke with us in peace and concord , according to the 〈◊〉 the gospel : and that these words are a condition , i beleeve , because christ saith , john . . if any man will doe his will , he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of god , or whether i speake of my selfe . but i see nothing here that reacheth the conclusion that we deny ; it will beare this indeed , if any man be otherwise minded , and thinke that paul hath not delivered sound doctrine , either concerning our pressing forward toward the prise of the high calling of god in jesus christ , or concerning ceremonies ; that is , if any man beleeve untruths contrary to pauls doctrine , let him beleeve these untruths , leaving roome to gods light , to bow downe under truths feet , when god shall reveale that pauls doctrine is true , and that his thoughts diverse from pauls doctrine was misapprehensions and errours ; but there is nothing here , that if any beleeve true non-fundamentals , he is to beleeve them with a reserve , that if god , with a new light , shall appear , to discover these truths to be untruths , he shall change his mind . now the supposition is vaine , and as unpossible , as to say , god can contradict and belie his owne truth , nor is there any word of toleration of sects in the text . yea , but ( say they ) paul professeth to walke according to the rule to which they 〈◊〉 all attained , with those who are contrary minded . ergo , we are to tolerate and to keepe peaceable communion with those who are contrary minded in opinions , and disagree from us . answ. marke , i pray you , that paul doth not say he will walke with them , and keepe communion with them simply ; but onely , . while god shall reveale their error , and by his light make them see that pauls doctrine is true . . so in other things , they be of one minde with paul , as perfect men should be : and so i thinke paul doth indeed condemne separation and breach of love for diversity of opinions in some things ; and we doubt not , but if the servant of the lord should with gentlenesse instruct malicious opposers of the truth , and wait on them to see , if god , peradventure , will give them repentance , to the acknowledgment of the truth , tim. . , . farre rather should paul walke with those that are perfect according to the same rule , though they be of another mind ; but it followeth not that those who are of another mind from paul , should , obstinately continue in that mind , after that god hath by writings and dispute convinced them of their error . . it followeth not that their ob●tinate continuance in their error should alwayes be tolerated , and never censured , especially if it be such an error as causeth divisions and offences , rom. . . for then such should be avoided , saith paul , in that same place . . it followeth not that we are to beleeve no superstructures or non-fundamentals , but with a reserve : it is observable that paul speaketh here of those who beleeve errors and doctrines contrary to pauls doctrine ; now consider then the force of the argument , those who beleeve errors contrary to pauls doctrine , have no certainty of faith , that what they beleeve is true , and therefore must beleeve with a reserve , leaving roome to new light ; therefore those who beleeve any true superstructures and any non-fundamentals , have also no certainty of faith , but must beleeve with a reserve , that when light shall appeare , they shall beleeve the contradicent of what they now beleeve , there is no force in this connexion . it is just like the question betwixt us and the papists , whether a man can be certaine with any divine and infallible certainty that he is in the state of grace and salvation . papists say hypocrites beleeve that they are in the state of grace , and yet they have no certainty thereof , ergo , ( say they ) the regenerate beleeving that they are in the state of grace , can have no certainty . this is a very ill consequence , for a sleeping man is not certaine whether he be dreaming or waking . ergo , a waking man knoweth not whether he be waking , or not . so a distracted man hath no certainty that he is as wise as seven men who can render a reason ; therefore a man sober in his wits knoweth not that he is in his sober wits : these be poore and loose consequences . it is true , when we beleeve some alterable circumstances of some things rather about , then in doctrine and discipline , which are disputable , and to us both sides have great probability , we have not certainty of faith , and possible here in our opinions learned and holy men ; yea and whole churches may looke beside their booke , and be deceived ; and these we take not to be the subject of a sworne confession of faith , and here we grant a [ non liquet ] on both sides , and doe allow some graine weights of reserve to persons and churches , to retract in those things : but hence it is badly concluded that we beleeve these non-fundamentals of discipline , for which we have certainty of evidence from gods word , with a reserve , and with a loosnesse of assent and credulity to beleeve the contrary to morrow ; for so the same argument should militate against the certainty of faith in some fundamentals : for a person , yea any particular church may erre in denying the resurrection of the dead , as some did in the church of corinth ; and christs disciples , though true beleevers , doubted of his rising from the dead , john . . peter and the disciples doubted of christ dying for the losed world , mat. . , . luke . , . and because any true beleever may fall in that temptation and weaknesse , as to deny all the articles of faith , taken divisively , for they may deny this or this article fundamentall , ( though i doe not thinke a regenerated person can deny the whole systeme and body of fundamentals collectively ) it shall follow by this argument that regenerated persons and particular churches are to beleeve some fundamentals with a reserve , and keeping roome for light to beleeve the contrary , and so if this argument be good , wee have no certainty of faith in beleeving any one fundamentall article its alone . nor can nathan or samuel have certainty of faith in beleeving their owne prophecies flowing from the immediate inspiration of the spirit ; but they are to beleeve them with a capacity to receive the faith of the contradicent prophecies , because nathan had no certainty of faith in commanding david to build the temple ; and samuel had as little certainty in pronouncing eliah to be the lords annoynted . another doubt against this is , that if any , out of weaknesse and meere tendernesse of conscience , deny some superstructures , which are indeed scripturall truths , they are not to be counted hereticks , because out of weaknesse , not out of obstinacy they erre , nor to be censured with excommunication or censures of church or magistrate , and therefore in these we are to beleeve truths , with a reserve , and to tolerate the contrary minded , if they agree with us in fundamentals . answ. that this may be answered , . the object of these opinions would be distinguished . . the persons , weak or strong . . the manner of refusing instruction , or of admitting light , of meere weaknesse , or of obstinacy . for the first , if the matter be faultlesse or light , as eating meats or not eating meats , in time when they are meerely indifferent , and the person weake and scarce capable of disputation , he is to be tolerated , and not received into knotty and thorny disputations , about things indifferent : for so paul rom. . is to be understood , when he will not have the weake taken in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : so michael strove with the angel disputing , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : if the matter concerne an institution of christ , and our necessary practise in a church , and the party be not weake . it is a question what maketh obstinacy , and what tendernesse and weaknesse , a turrecremata saith , he who is ready to yeeld to light , is not obstinate , b scotus , grosse ignorance , c canus saith , affected ignorance maketh obstinacie , d malderus saith that grosse ignorance may leave a man ready to yeeld to the information of the church , e alphonsus a castro saith better , he is obstinate who . defendeth an opinion against the scripture , or , saith he , ( which is his error ) against the definition of a generall councell , or of the pope . . who being admonished doth not amend . . who seeketh not resolution from the learned , with a purpose to render himselfe truths captive . . who sweareth that he shall adhere to the end , to that opinion . by the light and knowledge of the holder of the opinion , it may be collected whether he seeketh truth , and is ready to yeeld himselfe and his understanding thereunto : and except the point be fundamentall , it can hardly be judged heresie : if the point may be holden without any scandall , or breach of peace , much tolerance is required where error seemeth to be a temptation to holy men , but finall tolerance , and unlimitted , where the party is of great knowledge , and hath sway in the minds of many , to prevaile to draw others after him , is harder . object . but hee that serveth god in these is acceptable to god , rom. . . and if a man judge some doctrine to bee error , though it bee no error , yet to him that so judgeth it is error ; if hee suffer death for that hee judgeth truth , hee suffereth for righteousnesse , being truth in his judgement , and therefore libertie of conscience is to bee given to all sects ; christ would not forbid a man that preached in his name , to preach , though hee did not follow him , mark. . . luk. . . the best way to hinder sects is to re●ute them by the scriptures , and not to set decrees of synods to others , because that is done already by christ and his apostles ; for gods judgement shall still bee on you , while you establish christs jubilee , and freedome of consciences , luke . . answ. let none thinke that these bee the words of our brethren , but of a certaine anabaptist , and of arminians and socinians who object the same ; for paul , rom. . . hee that serveth god , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is to bee understood ( as the context teacheth us ) that is , that they relate the words going before , v. . hee who serveth god in righteousnesse , in peace , in joy of the holy ghost , the meaning is not that hee is acceptable who serveth god in following the inditement of his light and conscience , because it is his conscience , for then some should please god in sinning against god. but it is a point worthy our consideration , what tie and obligation an erroneous conscience layeth on men : hence with correction these considerations . . the true cause why an erring conscience obliegeth to abstinence from the fact in the case of error and misrepresentation of conscience , is , . because conscience is the nearest divine principle of our morall actions , and standeth in the roome of god , and therefore hee who doth any thing against the very erroneous ditement of conscience , is hence convinced to have a perverse will to sinne against the majestie of god , because hee who should beleeve usury to bee theft , ( though we should suppose with calvin and other great divines usurie to bee in some cases lawfull ) should yet take usury , hath a the●teous will in that , and doth steale . . because the oblieging law of god is not applyed to our actions at all , but by the interveening actuall use of our conscience ; see f pirerius . . consideration in the question , whether an erroneous conscience doth obliege a man , or no. it is taken for a thing out of controversie , yea that this is no question at all , whether or no doth an erroneous conscience so bind , that we can doe nothing against the standing enditement of an erring conscience : for the scripture is cleare in this , rom. . . i know and am perswaded by the lord jesus , that there is nothing ( of meat-kind now under the gospel ) uncleane ( or unlawfull to eat ) of it selfe , but to him that esteemeth any thing to bee uncleane , ( in the light of his il-informed and erroneous conscience ) to him ( so thinking ) it is uncleane , that is , to this man now under the actuall darknesse and errour of an ill-informed conscience it is not lawfull to eat , but hee must abstaine from eating , not simply from eating , but from eating , ●●li modo : so all who have commented on the place , calvin , beza , par●us , rollocus , &c. and of the fathers , all who either commented on , or handled the text occasionally , as theodoret , chrysostome , basilius , augustine , cyprian , ambrose , origen , anselm , all the popish writers , lyra , hugo cardinalis , aquinas , toletus , pirerius , estius , cornelius a lapide , &c. yea g adrianus , h vasquez , i pezantius , say it is manifestly against the scripture , and hereticall to say , it is no sinne to doe contrary to the commandement or prohibition of an erring conscience . . hence the conscience carrieth to the agent from god a twofold obligation most considerable here ; . one from the action it selfe to be done , or not done ; and this commeth wholly from the oblieging law of god , and not from the conscience : there is another obligation that consisteth not in the action , and commeth not from the action , but in the manner of doing , and this obligation commeth from conscience it selfe , and that is that we doe nothing , in such a manner , that is against the light or inditement of our conscience : for this is an imbred rose & flower of divinifie and majestie that groweth kindly out of conscience according to that high place of some sort of royaltie , that it hath to bee something of god , a little breast-god , a little deputie and judge not to bee contemned ; so when a proconsull bringeth to mee a forged commandement from my soveraigne and prince , i may receive it with non-obedience , if i know it to bee a forgery , but i am not to despise and put any note of disgrace upon the proconsull , be cause hee is in respect of his office the deputie of my soveraigne , though in this particular mandat , hee doth prevaricate , and not represent the soveraigne power and prince , whose deputie otherwayes he is , by vertue of his office ; so is this the deputed royaltie of conscience , that it standing to me , bic & nunc , as representing a message from god , though it represent it falsely , that i can doe nothing in the contrary , that deputry and message standing actually in vigor . . i desire that these two obligations of conscience bee carefully kept in mind ; hence i say , that conscience carrying the former obligation of gods law , from which formally the action hath its lawfulnesse , and in an eccentrick and irregular discrepance from which , it hath its unlawfulnesse , it doth not obliege mee to the action , because it is conscience simply ; for when it offereth an action to mee as lawfull , which in very deed , and a parte rei , in it selfe is unlawfull , i am not oblieged to that unlawfull action : for as god hath given to no ruler made of clay , any royall power to bee a tyrant and to destroy , where as his office is as a father to save and governe ; so hath not god given to conscience any power to obliege me to sinnes ; yea and conscience remaineth conscience , when it representeth forged and illegall mandates under the notion of things good , even when men love to goe to hell by reason , yet in that false representation conscience is not gods deputie ; therefore though if a man judge some doctrines to bee errors , though they bee in themselves truths , to him that so judgeth they are errors , yet are these truths not to bee rejected simpliciter and absolutely , by him who judgeth so , ony they are to be rejected 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in some respect as they come in under the notion and garments of errors ; & also , if any suffer death for an error which in conscience he conceiveth to be truth , that error is to him truth . distinguo : it is to him truth , that is ; he conceiveth and dreameth that it is truth ; that is most true : but to him it is truth , that is , it ought to bee beleeved by him as truth , and practised as lawfull ; that is most false : for it ought to bee rejected both in point of beleefe , and in point of practise , and the erroneous opinion thereof should bee rejected , and therefore if hee receive it as truth , and professe it , and die for it , hee dieth not for righteousnesse sake , but hee dieth for errour , and for the dreames of his owne head , and so is not blessed as one who dveth for righteousnesse ; for this vaine reason saith , . that it is no sinne for the mind to beleeve a lie , to bee a divine truth : and it is righteousnesse upon the beleefe , whereby i beleeve a lie to bee a truth , to suffer for a lie under the notion of a truth . both these are false : the former is false , for the mind is under gods oblieging law to conceive aright of all divine truths , as all the faculties of the soule are under a law. . the latter is false , for to beleeve lies as divine truths , and suffer for them , because the erring conscience saith they are divine truths , is not righteousnesse , but sinfull credulity , and blind zeale . . because wee are not to beleeve what our conscience dictateth as truth , under this formall reduplication , because our conscience thus doth dictate , and saith it is truth , but because gods spirit saith to our conscience , it is a divine truth ; not because our owne spirit and our owne dreaming and mis●ed conscience saith so . this is the controversie betwixt us and papists , anent the authoritie of gods word , but with a little change , for our conscience or the testimony of our conscience as such , is no more the formall object of our faith , and the formall medium and reason why with a divine faith i beleeve a divine truth to bee a divine truth , then the testimony of the church or the pope is the formall reason of my faith ; so an ●baptists make a pope and an infallible spirit of their owne conscience : but the whole formall obligation tying mee to receive this , and this point as a divine truth , is because god hath revealed it in his word ; the consciences representing of it is but a necessary condition of my beleeving , but not the formall object of my beleeving : the conscience is the cause why i beleeve it , tali modo , after a rationall way , and by the evidence of practicall reason , but it is not the formall cause why i beleeve it simpliciter ; for papists , arrians , macedonians , and the most detestable hereticks have consciences representing to them fundamentall truthes , as lies and untruths , and have died for these lies , did they suffer for righteousnesse for that ? and yet to their judgement that which they suffered for was truth . all the legall obligation is here from gods law , not from our conscience . arminians , socinians , anabaptists imagine that our conscience is the nearest rule of our actions , which is most false ; our present judgement is never a binding law to us for the time to come , no not when we beleeve fundamentalls ; gods word , because it is gods word , is a binding law onely ; our judgement is regula regulata , and not regula regulans , to be led , and not a leading or binding law to us ; for conscience , because conscience , is no more a pope to us , then the dictates of the bishop of rome speaking out of his chaire , can captivate the conscience of any man ; and malderus g holdeth that our opinion is a law , according to h ambrose , and hee correcteth himselfe , and saith our opinion or conscience ( non tam legem esse , quam legis quaddam praeconium , promulgationem , insinuationem ) is not so much the law of god , as the promulgation of gods law : but hee addeth , ( which maketh the businesse as bad ) and saith , promulgatio legis recte dicitur obligare ; but the truth is , the promulgation of the law doth not obliege , for who can say that the law hath an oblieging power from the herald his act of proclaiming , reading or declaring the law ? the promulgation of the law is an approximation of it to the understanding of the people , but the law of man hath its oblieging power from the honesty of the matter of the law , and it hath its obligation to punishment not from the herauld , but from the authoritie of the law-giver . and our conscience doth onely promulgate gods oblie●ing law , but it layeth not on us the oblieging power , except wee speake of an oblieging power in the manner of receiving and beleeving the law of god , that is , ( as i said ) that wee receive not as a truth what god proposeth as an untruth , or that wee receive not as a lie , what god proposeth as spoken by himselfe , for that is to receive truths against the light of our conscience . and when ambrose calleth our opinion an obliging law , he speaketh ( as augustine often doth ) of the law of nature , which is that habituall opinion naturall that wee have of right and wrong , or of the ●aw written in our heart . i would not here distinguish betwixt ( recta ratio ) right reason , and ( vera ratio ) true reason , for some make right reason the nearest rule of our actions , so as the action is lawfull , it our conscience perswade to it , though the action swa●ve and decline from gods law , for to mee reason is never right which is not true and agreeable to gods law. it is objected , if one shall beleeve it is lawfull to kill a protestant king , because it is good service in god , to kill a heretick ; ( as there bee good store of consciences of this mettall amongst the nation of jesui●es ) if hee kill him not bee sinneth against god , because be sinneth against the light of his conscience by the sinfull omitting of good service to god , and if bee kill him 〈◊〉 sinneth also in committing murther , both against the sixt commandement , and also against the fist , which commandeth to honour kings ▪ out of which it must follow that either an erring conscience , because it is conscience , obliegeth us to doe that , which because wee doe it , in obedience to an erring consceence , now leaveth off to bee sinne to the actor under this condition of conscience ; or then that there may bee such a perplexitie wherein a man by way of contradiction , whether hee doe such ●n all , or doe it not , is necessitated by gods providence to sinne , which absurdity shall make god the author of sinne . answ. there is no necessitie by way of contradiction , that a man thus perplexed must sinne , whether hee doe or not doe such anaction : for i give easily a third case different from both , for such a perplexed jesuite is neither oblieged to kill the prince , nor yet to abstaine from killing in such a perplexed manner ; but hee is oblieged not to kill the lords annointed , tali modo : hee is oblieged to abstinence , but not to abstinence tali modo , such a way , for hee is oblieged to lay aside his erroneous and hereticall conscience , and so to abstaine from killing with a well informed conscience : for no man is brought under a lawfull perplexitie to sinne , but men may bring themselves under sinfull perplexities of conscience , which is not to bee fathered upon the holy lord , who hateth sinne with a perfect hatred . i answer to the places , mark. . . and luk. . they be manifestly corrupted , for the man who cast out devills in christs name , and followed not christ , was not a man who followed the light of an erroneous conscience , who thought it service to god to cast out devills in christs name , and not to follow christ ; for hee was not oblieged to follow christ as the disciples followed him , except he had had the same command to follow christ that the apostles had , which wee read not of ; nay it is most like if it had beene the error of his conscience not to follow christ , then should christ have rebuked it , but christ did not rebuke it in the man , but directly insinuateth , v. . that the man was with christ , and a spirituall follower of christ , though hee did not in such a bodily way follow christ , as did judas and the eleven ; and it was the fault of the disciples to tie all the duties of a disciple , casting out devills in christs name , to a bodily following of christ , which was their pride . . it is a good way , to refute sects , and erroneous opinions by scriptures , and so is it a good way to convince an incestuous man of the hainousnesse of his sinne by scriptures , and to convince hymeneus and alexander of their blasphemous opinions by scripture , for scripture layeth open the vildnesse of sinnes and here●es : but it doth not follow , therefore it is not also a good way to deliver incestuous persons , and blasphemets to satan , that the spirit may bee saved in the day of the lord , and that they may learne not to blaspheme , cor. . . tim. . . preaching of the word is one meane to beare downe sects and erroneous opinions , but it taketh not away , but establisheth church-discipline as another meane , and the one is subordinate to the other : if matth. . an offending brother can bee convinced and brought to repentance by the power of the word ( as all rebukes must bee from the word ) it is good , but if he remaine obstinate in his offence , christ will have the man excommunicated , and esteemed a heatben and a public●n . . it is a vaine thing to say that god hath refuted all here●●s in the word , and therefore there is no need of synods to refute them , and to make determinations on the contrary , for it was certaine that the word of god had refuted the necessitie of circum●ision and of observing moses his law , as peter , james , paul , act. . doe strongly prove from the word of god and the word of god condemned the eating of things strang●●● , and of things sacrificed to idolls in the case of scandall ; therefore none of sound judgement will inferre that the determination of a synod , such as is act. . . is not necessary ; yea because the bookes of moses condemned the sadduces in their epicurith opinion of denying the resurrection of the dead , i hope it is not for that superfluous for christ out of moses his writings to determine and prove , matth. . that the dead must ●i●c againe ; you may by as good reason say , nothing should bee determined in preaching , nor in writings , because all these are already determined in the word , by the lord , his prophets and apostles : this shall close evert all ministery , ( as s●inians doe ) especially now after the cannon of the scripture is closed , for they use the same very arguments against the necessitie of a ministery , because now the gospell is fully revealed , there is no necessitie of a sent ministery , as was in the apostles time : so teach a andr. raddeccius , b smalcius , and c the arminians . and lastly , it is a vild abusing of scripture to say that the accept th●e yeare of the lord , of which christ speaketh , luk. . , ● . is that jubilee yeare of libertie of conscience to all sects of papists , arminians , socinians , anabaptists , &c. . because a libertie of hereticall and blasphemous opinions of god , his nature , worship , and word , cannot bee the acceptable yeare of the lord which christ as mediator came to proclaime , esa. . . for that is licence , not libertie ; christs acceptable yeare , fsiy . is the spirituall jubilee of remission of sinnes , and eternall redemption proffered in the gospel , and really bestowed upon the meeke , the broken hearted , the captives , the prisoners , the mourne●s in zi●n , and those whom christ is sent to comfort , and to clothe with the garments of praise ; but hee is not sent to comfort macedonians , sabellians , papists , socinians , &c. because they are sectaries , and doe adhere to their rotten and false grounds of divinitie ; for then libertie of conscience should have beene a mercy purchased by christs death , and arius should obtaine by christs death a power to bee an arian , and to deny the divinitie of jesus christ. . in the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ultio , a revenging , is an allusion to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 naeham , consolatus est , for this yeare was to the beleevers nechama , or consolation , and to unbeleevers nekama , a revenge or a vengeance , which cannot sort with sectaries . . the acceptable yeare is as paul expoundeth it , cor. . . the acceptable time of the gospell , and the day of salvation , and as d hugo cardinalis expoundeth it well , the time of the fulnesse of grace under the gospel , and that which is called , esay . . the day of salvation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ratson , the day of good will ; and so e beda , f toletus , g cyrillus , h and the jesuit salmeron and i glossa ordinaria expoundeth it faith and salvation , k procopius the day of the lords incarnation , as l hieronymus expoundeth the day of vengeance opposit thereunto , to bee the day of damnation ; and m lyra the yeare of christs suffering , in which christ is pleased with mankind . quest. iii. whether the jesuited lysimachus nicanor , and the author of the survey of discipline , doth with good reason impute ●● the church-government of the reformed churches , the eversion of the 〈◊〉 magistrates power ●n matters ecclesiasticall ? there came to the light of day , a night-peece of darkenesse , anno . a pamphlet by one lysimachus nicanor , acting the person of a ●esuite , but better resembling ● is nature , against our blessed reformation , imputing to us treason to kings , as the popish author of the survey had ledde the poore man : a both of these , as jesuites , doe raile against calvin , beza , and the geneva-discipline , as becanus , suarez , uasquez , bellarmine , gre●serus , and other their doctors and teachers doe leade them . that i may adde to what i have said before , i desire the reader to eye and consider these distinctions . . b paraeus teacheth that there is a double church-power , one internall and proper , as to preach , hinde , and loose , to administrate the sacraments , &c. this is not in the prince : and there is another improper and externall , which is exercised about church-matters , and church-officers : and this distinction is grounded upon that saying of constantine the emperour to the bishops , as c eusebius relateth it . . an externall power about matters ecclesiasticke is three-fold . . a power of order and jurisdiction about the externall , or rather in the externall acts of the church , which are visible and incurreth in the 〈…〉 , as to preach , baptize , and these , ( as saith that learned and d worthy preacher at middleburgh , guliel . apollonii ) doe properly pertaine to the spirituall and proper church-government , and without controversie doe not belong to the prince . . a power externall about church-matters , which is objective , in respect of the object , sacred or ecclesiastick , but improperly , and by a 〈◊〉 enely ecclesiasticke , and essentially and in it selfe politick , such as we hold to be the magistrates power in causing church-men doe their duty in preaching sound doctrine , and administrating the sacraments , ●cording to christs institution , and punishing hereticks and false teachers . . some have devised a mixed power ecclesiastick , ( as henric. e salcobrigiensis ) whereby the prince is the head of the church , and hath a nomotheticke , and legislative power , in things ecclesiasticall : and this is not onely objective in respect of the object ecclesiasticall , but also subjective in respect of the subject , ecclesiasticall , in respect that the prince by vertue of his civill office , as a king may ordaine prelats , and make lawes in church-matters . distinction . . there is a twofold power in a king , one in a king as a king , this is alike in all , and ordinary , regall , coactive ; whether the king be a heathen , a turke , or a sound beleeving christian . there is another power in a king , as such a king , either a king and a prophet also , or as a propheticall king : and this extraordinary power was in solomon and david , to write canonicke scripture , and to prophecie , and is not properly a kingly power : or there is in a king as such a king , even as a christian beleeving king , an other power ordinary indeede , but it is not a new regall power , but potestas executiva , a power or a gracious hability to execute the kingly power that he had before as a king ; so christianity addeth no new kingly power to a king , but onely addeth a christian power to use , inlarge , and dilate the kingly power , that he had before . distinction . the magistrate as a magistrate is a politicke head and ruler of the common-wealth , but as a christian he is a member of the church . . the kings power as king in things ecclesiasticke , is not servi●e and meerely executive , as the churches servant , to put their decrees in execution , but it is regall , princely and supreame . . the object of the kings power is not simply a peaceable life , and externall peace of humane societies , but also honesty and godlinesse , but to be procured by a civill , politicke , regall and coactive way , by the sword of the secular arme , as the object of the church power is honesty and godlinesse to be procured by a ministeriall , ecclesiasticall , and spirituall power , without any forcing of men by externall power . . the end of kingly power , de jure , by gods right and divine law , exintentione dei approbativâ , is godlinesse , but the end of kingly power according to its essence , and de facto , is a quiet life , though it attaine not godlinesse , as it doth not attaine that end , nor can it attaine it , amongst pagans , and yet there is a kingly power in its essence , whole and intire amongst pagans , where there is no godlinesse , or christian religion . . there is in heathen kings a regall and kingly power to establish christian religion and adde regall sanctions to christian synods , though there neither is , nor can be , during the state of heathen paganisme , any christian religion there ; this power is essentially and actu primo , regall , yet as concerning execution , it is vertuall onely . . there is a difference betwixt a royall command under the paine of 〈◊〉 punishment , with a royall power to punish the contraveners 〈◊〉 ecclesiasticke , and a nomotbeticke power to make church lawes ; 〈…〉 hath the former power , but not the latter . . if the royall power be of that transcendent and eminent greatnesse , as to make lawes in all things , belonging to church 〈◊〉 , and so as f camero must be heard , saying , that the ●ing is the supreame ruler , and church-men be as servants , and instruments under him , and doe all in the externall government of the church by vertue of the kings supreame authority , the king is not much honoured by this ; for they must say that the king in the physitian giveth dregs to the sicke , in the plow-man laboureth the earth , in the fashioner seweth and s●a●eth garments , whereas paraeus g who without reason also giveth to the prince a nomothetick power in church-matte●s , doth except some things that the prince cannot doe , sometimes for want of right and law , other sometimes for want of knowledge , sometimes because it is against the dignity of his majesty , as in sordid and base arts . . the power of governing the church of the jewes , though it was ordinarily in the priesthood , the sonnes of aaron , whose ●ippes did preserve , ex officio , knowledge , mal. . yet as the prophets were raised up by god , extraordinarily to teach , they 〈◊〉 by that same extraordinary power did governe , and therefore though the kings of israel were not priests , yet without doubt some of them were prophets , and as prophets they did prophecy , and as prophets determine many things of government , by that same extraordinary power by which some of them , to wit david , and solomon , did prophecy , and pen ca● ni●k scripture . . there is one consideration of abuses and heresies manifestly re 〈◊〉 to gods word , and another of those things that are ordinar● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in the former there is no neede of the churches ministeriall power of condemning them , and therefore ezechias , jos●as , asa , ●●osaphat , did manifestly by the light of nature , and gods word 〈◊〉 abuses , and idolatry in gods worship without the churches 〈◊〉 , seeing the church representative was guilty of these cor 〈◊〉 us themselves ; but in the latter , seeing the kings place is to com 〈◊〉 and compell by externall force and bodily punishments , and it is the churches part to teach , inserme , binde , and loose , therefore the king can make no church canons . hence our first conclusion . the christian magistrate as a christian is a member of the church , but as a magistrate he is not formally a member or part of the church . . because he is neither a pastor , doctor , elder , nor deacon , as is cleare to any , for these offices were compleate in the church without the magistrate , ephes. . . else christ ascending to heaven should have given kings , for the edifying of his body ; neither is hee as a magistrate a part of the company of beleevers . . because then all magistrates as magistrates should bee professors of the faith , which is knowne to bee false . . because the magistrate , as such , is the head of an externall politick civill societie , not of christs body . . the magistrate as a magistrate wanteth such things as essentially constituteth a member of the church , as a magistrate onely hee hath neither baptisme , profession , nor faith , because then heathen magistrates should not bee magistrates , the contrary whereof the word of god saith , jeremiah in gods name commanded to obey the king of babylon , and paul commanded to pray for kings and heathen magistrates , tim. . . hence let us have leave to deny these , ( hee who is the churches nurs-father , is the churches father , and a part of the family . ) . ( whose office it is to cause all in the visible church to professe the truth , obey god , and keep his commandements , hee is a member of the church . ) . ( hee who is a keeper and preserver of law and gospell by his office , hee is by his office a member of the church . ) for the first : hee is a father metaphorically , and doth by an externall coactive power , and by the sword nourish the church , and therefore is not the church , nor a part of the church , ex officio , by his office , as the nurs-father is not the child , nor a part of the child , whereof hee is nurse-father ; and this , and both the other two are to bee denyed , because the magistrate doth neither nurse the church , nor cause the church doe their dutie , nor desend the law and gospell by any power that is intrinsecally church-power , but by the sword , and coactive power , which in no sort belongeth to christs kingdome as a part thereof , either as it is internall , and invisible , or externall or visible , which is not of this world , joh. ● . . . by no word of god can h salcobrigiensis , and i weemes prove , that the magistrate as the magistrate is a mixt persen , and his power a mixt power , partly civill , partly ecclesiastick , for ●● the ruler commeth in amongst the ordinary church-officers , ● m. . ephes. . . tim. . . which the word of god doth ●●ver insinuate , and hee should no lesse watch for soules , as ●●e who is to give an account to god , then other church-officers , heb. . . for the magistrates office may bee performed by himselfe alone , hee himselfe alone may use the sword in all things , which hee doth as a magistrate , as is cleare , rom. . . and pet. . . the king judging his alone , and the kings deputie sent by him judging his alone is to bee obeyed , but no church power , mixt or pure , and unmixt is committed to any one man , but to many , as to the church , matth. . . cer. . . . cor. . . the magistrate as the magistrate hath a civill dominion ever the body , goods and lives of men . . and hath the sword to compell men to doe their duties . . and compelleth to externall obedience , and leadeth men on to godlinesse and to eternall life , by externall pompe , force and the terrors of bodily and externall punishment , and his warfare is carnall , a● the k scripture doth prove ; but the church , and members of the church as they are such , have no majoritie of dominion , pet. . , . luke . . . over the body , and goods , and blood of men . . they have not the sword , nor power of the sword , joh. . . john . . luke . . . cor. . . . the church as the church dealeth by the word of admonisting , teaching , rebuking , excommunicating , praying and requesting , as the l scripture cleareth : therefore the power of the church and the power of the magistrate must dister in spece and nature . . if the magistrate be a chiefe member of the church , as a magistrate with mixt power to make church-lawes , then is the church not perfect in its beeing , and operations , to obtaine the end convenient to the church as the church , so long as it wanteth the magistrate , because it should bee made defective , and not able to exercise all its operations for the edification of christs body , and gathering of the saints , ephes. . . without this principall member , especially seeing the magistrate is alleadged to bee a member , or integrall part of the church , such as the head or eyes , otherwise without this , or that professor , a church may be perfect , as an army may be perfect , without this or that common souldier , but wanting a leader it should not bee perfect . but so it is that the church is and was perfect in its being , and operations , without the civill magistrate ; the church of corinth where the magistrate was a heathen , and a pagan , cor. . , , . is yet a church sanctified in christ jesus , called to bee saints , cor. . graced , v. . inriched by christ in all utterance and knowledge , v. . comming behind in no gift , v. . with power of excommunication which attaineth its proper end , the saving of the spirit in the day of the lord jesus , cor. . . a perfect body of christ , cor. . able to edifie the whole body , cor. . . , , . having power of the seales of the covenant , cor. . , , , . so was there a perfect church-synod without the civill magistrate , act. . act. . act. . and all for the saving of the redeemed church is laid upon the eldership of ephesus , act. . , , , . without the magistrate . . if the king bee a mixt person indued with church power to make canons , and because annointed with holy oyle , capable of jurisdiction ecclesiasticall , as some say , then as hee is a king by birth , so is hee also borne with an ecclesiasticall power to exercise spirituall jurisdiction : but paul saith , all ecclesiasticall power that hee had , was given of god , not borne with him ; hee was made , not borne a minister , col. . . the power to edifie was given him , cor. . . . conclusion . wee cannot by the word of god acknowledge that difference , betwixt the magistrate , and the christian magistrate , that the magistrat as a magistrate hath a kingly power to rule over men as men , and the christian magistrate hath a christian kingly power to rule over men as they are christians . because by one and the same kingly power the king ruleth over men as men , and men as christian men , commanding by the sword and kingly power that pastors preach sound doctrin , administrate the sacraments aright , that all the church professe christ , and abstaine from blasphemy , and idolatry . hee is the minister of god for good , rom. . ergo , hee is the minister of god for all good , for a christian good , and is a king compelling to a christian good : also though the king were not a christian magistrate , yet hath hee a kingly power to command men as christians , and it is by accident , that hee cannot in that state actually command christian duties , and service to christ , because hee will not , and cannot command these duties remaining ignorant of christ , even as a king ignorant of necessary civill duties cannot command them , not because hee wanteth kingly power to command these civill things , for undeniably hee is a judge in all civill things , but because hee hath not knowledge of them . . christianitie maketh him not a king over christians as christians , for then hee could not bee their king , and were not a king over christians , so long as hee wanteth christianitie , which is false , for the christians acknowledged heathen emperours as their kings ; the people of god were to obey nebuchadnezzar , darius , cyrus , and other beathen kings . paul will have obedience and subjection due to every power , rom. . , . tim. . , , . pet. . . . . it maketh way to the popish dethroning of kings when they turne hereticks , and leave off to bee members of the christian church , which wee abhorre . . a king is parens patriae , the father of the commonwealth . now christianitie addeth no new fatherly power to a father over his children , for a heathen father is as essentially a father , as a christian father , and a heathen commander in warre , a heathen husband , a heathen master , a heathen doctor or teacher , are all as essentially commanders , husbands , &c. in relation to their soul diers , wives , servants , and schollers , as are the christian commander , the christian husband , the christian master , and christian doctor , in relation to christian souldiers , christian wives , &c. and no man can say that christianitie giveth a new husband-right to the husband , once a heathen , over his wife , that hee had not before . . conclusion . the king is not debarred as king from the inspection , oversight , and care of ecclesiasticall affaires , but the end of the kingly power , is not onely externall peace , but also godlinesse , tim. . . and in the intrinsecall end of magistracie as magistracie , is not onely naturall happinesse , and a quiet of life ; as a spalat● , and after him that learned author b apollonius saith , but also godlinesse that wee may lead a quiet and a peaceable life , in all godlinesse and b●nes●ie ; ergo , in all that may conduce to life eternall , hee is a king by office , but in a coactive and regall way . . the ruler is ( rom. . ) the minister of god to thee for good , v. . do that which is good , and thou shalt have praise of the ruler : then looke how farre good and well doing , which is praiseworthy extendeth , as farre doth the intrinsecall end of magistracy reach ; but this good , and welldoing which the magistrate as the magistrate procureth , is not onely a naturall happinesse , and the quiet life of a civill societie , but also the good and well doing of christians as christians , to wit , publick praying , praysing , preaching , hearing of the word , religious administration and receiving of the sacraments , all which the king as king is to procure ; for what ever good externall pastors as pastors doe procure , that same also , but in a civill and coactive way , is the king as the king to procure , and therefore his end as king is godlinesse , and eternall life , but he is busied about this end , after a farre other and more carnall way then the pastor , the weapons of whose warfare are not carnall . . that the kings end intrinsecall , as king , is more then externall and naturall peace , is cleare , because ill doing against which he as the minister of god , is to execute vengeance , and wrath , rom. . , . is not onely that which is contrary to externall quietnesse of the commonwealth , and the naturall happinesse of civill societies , but also that which is contrary to the happinesse supernaturall of the church as beleevers in the way to life eternall , for hee is to take vengeance upon blasphemy , idolatry , professed unbeleefe , neglect of religious administration of the seales , and the eating and drinking damnation at the lords table , which are ills not formally contrary to externall quietnesse , but which are directly scandalls , and morall ills hindering men as members of the church in their journey to life eternall ; for though men should never falle o● sinne against the externall quietnesse of the naturall happinesse of the members of a commonwealth , yet the magistrate as the magistrate is to execute vengeance upon all externall ill-doing , as blasphemy , adoring of idolls . . the magistrate as the magistrate , in the zeale of god , is to set himselfe against sinnes , as dishonorable to god , and his glory , seeing the judgement that hee executeth , is not mans , but the lords , chron. ● . . and hee is a little god in the roome of god , yea god ●●tteth judging in , and through him , psal. . v. . and therefore his end is not onely to punish sinnes , as they trouble the externall peace of the commonwealth , but all externall sinnes , that may wound the honour of god , and against which the magistrate , as he is such , is to be armed and cloathed with zeale . . those who with spalato teach that life eternall is not the end of the magistrate , as a magistrate , but onely the extrinsecall end of the magistrate , or the end of the person who is the magistrate , must foulely erre ; so it is not , in their meaning , the end of the office or kingly art to maintaine religion and pi●tie , but this is the end of the person cloathed with the office , and so they deny that god hath destined the kingly office to helpe men as christians to heaven , and to promove christs kingdome mediatory , and they must bee forced to say , god hath ordained magistracie to helpe men as men , or as they have a life common to them with the beasts , and not to helpe them as christian men , to ●●ie from the wrath to come , and obtaine life eternall , which certainly is against the honour of magistracie , b which of its owne nature is destined for the promoving of religion , else the magistrate as the magistrate is not a nurs-father in the church , nor to bring his glory to the new jerusalem , nor to kisse the sonne , nor to exalt the throne of jesus christ , contrary to the word of god. . yea they were onely to promove the church as a societie of men , and to set up the throne of justice for the second table of the law , and not a throne for pietie , and for the first table of the law , which is observed by c augustine , who will have kings to serve the lord , not onely ●●men , but also as kings , in such sort which none can doe , who are not kings , and that ●● onely in civill ●ffaires , but also in matters concerning divine religion : which passage , as d bellarmine corrupteth it on the one hand , making the king a governour of men according to their bodies , and his old father the antichrist a governou● of men according to their soules , so doth that virulent libeller e lysimachus nicanor , with no reason inferre that the king is head of the church , and hath a nomothetick power to impose the service booke , and booke of canons upon the church of scotland . but because the king as king is to promove religion , therefore f saith junius ) minos , ly●urgus , charondas , zeleu●us , and numa obli●ged men to their lawes by some colour of religion . . nor doe i thinke what is said against this by some learned men of great weight ; see g guliel . apollonius , h spalatensis , i tilenus , k daneus , l bu●anus , m professor . leidens . some say the magistrates power and the ecclesiastick power differ in the objects , the magistrates powers ( say they ) object is things earthly , and the externall man ; the power of the church is things spirituall , and the inner man. i answer , these two powers differ in the objects no question , i meane in the formall objects , not in the materiall , for the magistrate as a magistrate is a nurs-father , and keeper , and avenger of both tables of the law , and hath a coactive power about hearing the word , administration of the sacraments , idolatry , blasphemy , and the right serving of god in jesus christ , and these things are not res terrenae , earthly things , or things of this life , but spirituall things . yea the affaires of jehovah and the kings matters , chron. . . saith amesius , o are not so different , non it a disparata sunt , as that the care and knowledge of the things of god , belongeth not to the king , sed it a distinguuntur , ut in modo procurandi , rex politice suas partes agat , & sacerdos ecclesiastice suas ; the objects of the magistrates power , and of the churches power may be materially and are one & the same , but the king worketh in a coactive and kingly way , and the church in an ecclesiastick and spirituall way . for doe not both the king as king , and the church as the church , command and forbid one and the same thing ? doth not the king command the right worship of god , and forbid idolatry , and the blasphemy of god ? and doth not the church in their synodical canons command and forbid one and these some things ? yea certainly , but the king doth command and forbid by a kingly and coactive power , under the paine of bo●●lv punishment , as incarceration , exile , proscription , or death , according to the quality of the fact . and the church commandeth also the right worship of god , and forbiddeth blasphemy and idolatry , but by a spirituall and ecclesiastick power , and under the paine of spirituall and ecclesiasticall censures , as open rebuke , suspension , and excommunication ; and they differ not so in their ends , as some teach , so as the end of the church powes should be the communion of saints , and the edifying of the body of the church , which i grant is true , and the end of the ruler should be onely preservation of peace , and the externall tranquillity of the common-wealth : yea ( i say from the word of god ) that externall peace is too narrow an end , and it doth belong to the second table , the kings end as nurse-father and his a like care is to preserve the first table , and as a nurse-father , to see that the childrens milke be good and wholesome , though the milke come not from his owne breasts ; and so his power hath a kingly relation to all the word of god , and not to externall peace and naturall happinesse onely . and the king as the king , his end is edification and spirituall good of soules also , but alwayes by a kingly power , and in a coactive way , by the sword , whereas the church , are in their care of edifying soules , to use no such carnall weapons in their warfare , cor. . . for which cause p that learned p. martyr , and q 〈◊〉 parker , and also r the professors of leyden say that ministers deale with consciences of men , quoniam spiritus sanctus ( inquit martyr ) vim suam adjungit cum praedicationibus orthodoxis , the holy spirit conjoyneth the power and influence of grace with sound preaching ; and the magistrate doth onely exercise externall discipline . and parker reasoning against whitgift and 〈◊〉 , proveth well that the church visible , though externall , yet is christs spirituall kingdome , and that church discipline is a part of christs spirituall kingdome , and that the externall government of christ by discipline , is spirituall every way , according to the efficient , cor. . . according to the end , spirituall ●dification , ephes. . . according to the matter , the word and sacraments , cor. . , . according to the forme of working , by the evidence of the spirit , cor. . . . and this is the cause ( i conceive ) why great divines have said the object of the magistrates power as a magistrate is the externall man , and earthly things , because he doth not in such a spirituall way of working , take care of the two tables of the law , as the pastor doth ; and yet the spirituall good and edification of the church in the right preaching of the word , the sacraments , and pure discipline is his end . it is true , whether the blasphemer professe repentance , or not , the magistrate is to punish , yea and to take his life , if he in seducing of many , have prevailed , but yet his end is edification , even in taking away the life ; for he is to put away evill , that all israel may feare , and doe so no more : but this edification is procured by the sword , and by a coactive power , and so the church power and the kingly power differ in their formall objects , and their formall ends . but s spalato speaketh ignorantly of kings . who saith , as the internall and proper end of the art of painting , the art of sailing , &c. is not life eternall , but onely to paint well , according to the precepts of art , and to bring men safe to their harborie , though the persons who are painters and sailers may direct works of their art to life eternall : so ( saith he ) the end of the kingly art is not life eternall , but onely the externall peace of the common ▪ wealth ; hence inferreth he , that there is no subordinatim betwixt the power of the magistrate , and the power of the church , but that they are both so immediate under god , as the church cannot in a church way regulate the king , as a king , but onely as he is a christian man ; the church may rebuke the king , while as he abuseth his kingly power to the destruction of soules , and that the church power , as such , is not subordinate to the kingly power , onely the king may correct with the sword the pastors , not as churchmen and pas●ors , but as men who are his subjects . but , . whereas it is certaine the king in respect of politick power is the immediate vicegerent of god , and above any subject in his dominions , so doth the bishop , make the shoe-maker , the painter , the master-fashioner immediate unto god and censurable by none , as they are artificers , even as the king is censurable by none as king , and so the king is dishonoured , who by office is the lords annoynted , and a little god on earth , psal. . v. . ( ) the intrinsecall end of kingly power is no more the advancing of godlinesse , and the promoving of the kings daughter towards life eternall , by the sincere milke of the word , as the lords vicegerent , and nurse-father of the church , then the painter as a painter , or a sea-man as a sea-man is to advance godlinesse : for this mans intrinsecall and is onely a safe harbour and shoare to temporall lives , not the harbour of salvation to soules ; and his end is onely a faire image of art in paper or clay , not the image of the second adam ; and by this the king as king is interdicted of any church businesse , or care of soules to be fed by the word or sacraments , to keepe them cleane ; if he looke to any of these , as an end , that is not the eye or intention of the king as king , but of the king as a godly christian , ( saith spalato : ) hence to care for the spirituall good of the church , and the promoving of the gospel is as accidentall , as to say , an excellent painter , such as ap●ies , intendeth in his painting life eternall : so the king , by this , looketh to the law of god , to religion and the eternall happinesse of the church , by guesse , by accident , and as king , hath neither chaire nor roome in christian synods , nor a seat in the church . . if the meaning be , that the king as king , that is rightly exercisng the office of a king , is subordinate to no church power , that is , he cannot be justly and deservedly rebuked by pastors , that is most true , but nothing to any purpose ; for so the pastor as a pastor , jeremiah as he doth truly and in the name of the lord exercise the propheticall office , cannot be deservedly censured , nor punished either by the church-synodrie , or the king and princes of the land : but thus way all members of the church , an i any one single beleever , doing his duty , should be as immediate , and independent , and highest next on earth to christ as the king , and his three estates of the honourable parliament are in civill matters , and as an occumenick councell , or in our brethrens meaning , independent congregation , which is against reason . but if the meaning be , the acts of a king as aberring from justice , not as a king , but as a fraile man , may be censured and rebuked deservedly by pastors in a church way ; this way also , the pastor as a pastor is not subject to the church , but onely as a fraile man , and so nothing is said to the purpose in this more then the in the former . but if the meaning be thirdly , that which onely maketh good sense , that the acts of the king abstracted from good or bad , or as kingly , or not morall , nor acts of justice or injustice , more then the acts of painting , of sailing , of making of shooes , and thus the king is not subject to the church power , nor is his intrinsecall end as king , justice , and godlinesse and preservation of religion , the man speaketh non-sense , and wonders ; for the king as a king is a morall agent , and not infallible in his lawes or administration . ergo , as a king he is under the scepter of the king of saints in discipline , and in the keyes of the kingdome of god , and so the kingly office is subordinate to the power of christ in his ministers and church discipline , and by that same reason , the power and offices of ministers as they are morall agents and obnoxious to sinne , to false doctrine , blasphemy , idolatry , idlenesse and sleepinesse in feeding the flock , are under the coactive power of the supreme governour ; and he doth as king use the sword against them : hence it is cleare that both the kingly power is subordinate to church-power , and that the subordination is mutuall , that also the church-power is subordinate to the kingly power , and that both also in their kind are supreme ; the kingly power is the highest and most supreme , and under no higher coactive power : i meane the kingly as kingly conjoyned with the collaterall power of parliaments , where the realme is so governed , and the church-power is the highest in the kind of ecclesiasticall power . t joan. major saith well , that they are not subordinate , that is , not one of them is above another , that i grant , but that which he and spalato saith , neutri in alteram est imperium , that neither of the two hath a commandement over another , that we deny , yet are they powers in office and nature different , for they differ in their objects . . use and end . . and their manner of specifick operations , and the kings power is not ecclesiastick . others say that there was a perfect civill policy , having no need of the church power , anent the perfect civill government amongst the heathen , and in christian common-wealths , the civill power of it selfe and of its owne nature can doe nothing , for the attaining of eternall happinesse , except we would goe to the tents of pelagians , whither papists doe lead us , while as they teach that the naturall end of civill power , of its owne nature and intrinsecally is ordained to eternall happinesse . but the civill power of it selfe doth conferre nothing , whereby the spirituall power of the church hath intrinsecally , and properly , and formally its dignity , power , strength , and proper vertue ; and doth produce its owne proper effect and end , because , as saith w spalato , the civill magistrates end is of another republike different from the church , he is head of the common-wealth , and civill body : see x apollonius . but i answer , there is a policy civill without the ecclesiasticall policy , and the king is essentially a king , though neither he be a christian himselfe , nor his subjects christians ; and to the essence of a king , and to the essence of a civill government , christianity and a church-power is not required , yet hath the king as king essentially a right and civill coactive power to promove christian religion , and the edification of christs body , though he be a heathen ; the want of christianity doth not take away his kingly right , onely it bindeth up and restraineth the exercise thereof ; but though he be a king essentially , and actu primo , while he wanteth christianity , and so is a perfect magistrate , quoad esse , and the state that he ruleth over , a perfect civill body , quoad esse , in respect of essence and being , yet is he not a perfect magistrate , quoad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 operari , neither he nor his civill state and body are perfect in operations . and it followeth not that the king as king can doc nothing about the obtaining of life eternall , for as a king he hath a perfect right , and kingly power to doe , and being a christian he actually exerciseth that power , as a nurse-father of the church , to see that the kings daughter be fed with wholsome milke , to see that the first and second table be kept , and that men serve christ , and have the seales of the covenant in purity , under the paine of suffering the weight of his royall sword ; and i wonder that this should be called nothing for the obtaining of eternall happines , seeing it is a way to eternall happinesse to be thus fed under a christian king as a king. but ( say they ) it is pelagianism that the kings power compelling the nurses to let out their breasts to the kings daughter , that she may sucke the sincere milke of the word , should be a meane of eternall happinesse . i answer , and it is also pelagianisme to say , that the planting of paul , and watering of apollos , and the ministeriall power and paines of ministers , without the grace of god , can produce or effectuate supernaturall happinesse , and it is false that the kingly power of it self doth confer nothing whereby the spirituall and ecclesiasticall power hath intrinsecally and formally dignity , and power , and its proper effect ; for it is true , the kingly power maketh not the ecclesiasticall power , but it setteth it on worke , in a coactive way , for the edifying of christs body , and doth causatively edifie . lastly , whereas it is said the king as king is over the civill body and the common-wealth , which is a body different in nature from the christian body or church ; i say , that is false , for the king as king ruleth over men , as men , and also as christian men , causing them to keepe both the tables of law. but . ( say they ) the office of a king is not a meane sanctified of god for a supernaturall good , because it is amongst the gentiles . i answer , this is no consequence , for that office of it selfe is sanctified and ordained of god , for keeping of both tables of the law , and that it worketh not this , in its owne kind , is not from the nature of the kingly office , but from the sinfull disposition of the gentiles ; so the word is the savour of death to some , through their default . ergo , it is not a meane sanctified for that end ; it followeth not . but . the office of the king of it selfe and its owne power doth not governe or subdue the inward man , for immediately and of its owne power it cannot bind the conscience , but onely by the interveening mediation of the word of god. ergo , of it selfe it intendeth not to produce a supernaturall and eternall good . answ. nor can the office of a minister of it selfe , and in its owne power , produce a supernaturall good , but onely by the authority of the word , esa. . . jer. . v. . tit. . . . is it therefore no office sanctified for a supernaturall end ? but . they reason , a supernaturall good , and life eternall , are effects flowing from the mediatory office of christ , bestowed upon the church : but the kingly power floweth not from the mediator christ , but from god as creator , who bestoweth lawfull kings and magistrates upon many nations , who know nothing of a saviour . i answer , when i consider the point more exactly , i see not how kings , who reigne by the wisdome of god jesus christ , prov. . . . have not their kingly power from christ , who hath all power given to him in heaven and in earth , matth. . . for they are nurse-fathers of the church as kings , esa. . . they are to kisse the sonne , and exalt his throne , as kings , psal. . . they bring presents and kingly gifts to christ as kings , psal. . v. . . and they serve christ not onely as men , but also as kings , as augustine saith : y therefore are they ordained , as meanes , by christ the mediator , to promote his kingly throne . some of our divines will have the kingly power to come from god as creator , in respect god giveth kings , who are his vicegerents , to those who are not redeemed , and to nations who never heard of christ ; and others hold that the kingly power floweth from christ-mediator , in respect he accomplisheth his purposes of saving of his redeemed people , by kings authority , and by the influence of their kingly government , procureth a feeding ministery and by their princely tutory , the edification of his body the church , which possibly both aime at truth . see a the groundlesse carping at cartwright , calvin , beza , and others , by that sharp toothed envier of truth the author of the survey of holy discipline : of this hereafter more . . conclusion . the king as king hath not a nomothetick , or legislative power to make lawes in matters ecclesiastick , in a constitute church , nor hath he a definitive sentence , as a judge . . all power of teaching publikely the church or the churches of christ , is given to those who are sent and called of god for that effect : but magistrates as magistrates are not sent nor called of god to the publike teaching of the church . ergo. the proposition is cleare from the like , rom. . . how shall they preach , except they be sent ? ergo , how shall they publikely and synodically teach , except they be sent ? heb. . . no man taketh this honour upon him , but he that is called of god , as was aaron , &c. ergo , if none be a priest to offer a sacrifice without gods calling , neither can he exercise the other part of the priesthood , to teach synodically , & to give out ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) decrees , acts . . that obligeth the churches ecclesiastically , but he who is called . . who so hath nomothetick power to define and make lawes in matters ecclesiastick , have onely a ministeriall power to expone christs will in his testament , under paine of church-censures , and hath no coactive power of the sword to command these lawes enacted , and to injoyne them on the churches . but onely church-men , who are formally members of the church , as pastors , doctors , elders , and others sent by the church have this ministeriall power ; without the coactive power of the sword , and what ever the magistrate as the magistrate , commandeth , he commandeth it , in things ecclesiastick necessary and expedient , under bodily punishment ; i adde this , because threatning of bodily punishment , is not essentiall to lawes in generall , because some lawes are seconded onely with rewards , as the judge offereth by law a reward to any , who shall bring unto him the head of a boar , or of some notorious robber . ergo , &c. the proposition is cleare ; the learned b junius giveth to the magistrate with our divines , an interpretation of scripture , as a judge ; which concerneth his owne practise , they are interpreters , pro communi vocationis modo , in a christian way , as private men , but they have no power of ecclesiastick interpretation . . c gul. apollonius saith , the prince as a christian , hath an office to exhort the svnod , by word or epistle , as constantius did the fathers of the nicen councell ; and his legates exhorted the councell of chalcedon , ut deo rationem reddituri . see d ruffinus e and the acts of the councell of chalcedon . . the magistrate hath a power judiciall , as a magistrate , in so farre as his owne practise is concerned , to expone the things defined , but this expotition he useth , non instruendo synodice , non docendo ecclesiastice , sed docendo seu potius mandando cum certa relatione ad paenam à brachio seculari insligendam contemptoribus , not in an ecclesiasticall way teaching and instructing synodically , but teaching or rather commanding with a certaine relation to civill punishment , to be inflicted upon the contemners ; as he teacheth , what is just , or unjust in his civill lawes , not directly to informe the mind , but to correct bad manners , and this maketh the object of kingly power about churches matters , and the object of ecclesiasticall power , formall objects different . . those who have a nomothetick power to define in synods , are sent by the church to synods with authoritative commission and power for that effect , representing the church which sent them , as all who are sent with any ambassage doe represent those who sent them . but magistrates as magistrates , are not sent to represent those who sent them with authoritation commission of the church . ergo , they have no such power ●●d●ine in synods . i prove the proposition from the apostles practise : paul and barnabas were sent as chosen men by the church 〈◊〉 antioch , acts . . . acts . . the apostles and elders came from the church to consider of this matter , acts . . acts . . 〈◊〉 cor. , . if the apostle with the church sent titus 〈◊〉 brother , whose praise is in the gospel , as chosen of the churches , to travell with us , v. , in gathering the charity of the saints , for the poore at jerusalem , then by the like , those who are sent to declare the minds of the churches , are also clothed with the authority of the churches , who sent them ; but magistrates a● such , are not sent , but are there with the sword of common-wealth , and not with the mind of the church , as magistrates , except they be also christians . . the apostolike synods , is to us a perfect patterne of synods . but persons defining in them are apostles and elders , acts . . acts . . the church , matth. . . defineth , and cor. . . those who are conveened in the name of the lord ●esus , and the apostles pastorall spirit , those who are over us in the lord , and watch for our soules , thes. . . heb. . . but in these synods there are no magistrates , yea there was at c●rinth a heathen magistrate , cor. . . and in the apostolike church a persecutor , acts . , , . &c. and the magistrate as the magistrate , is not a member of the church , and is neither pastor , elder , nor doctor , nor a professor of the gospel , except he be more then a magistrate . . no ecclesiasticall power , or acts formally ecclesiasticall , are competent to one who is not an ecclesiasticall person , or not a member of the church , but a civill person ; but a power to define in synods , and the exercise of acts ecclesiasticall and matters ecclesiasticall , are due to ecclesiasticall persons , and to the church . ergo , they are not competent to the civill judge . the proposition is evident by differences betwixt ecclesiasticall persons and civill magistrates , which might be more accurately set downe by others , then by me . but they differ , . that the churches power is spirituall , the magistrates causatively , effectively or objectively spirituall , but not intrinsecally and formally spirituall , because he may command by the power of the sword spirituall acts of preaching , administrating the sacraments purely , of defining necessary truths in synods , and forbid the contrary , but he cannot formally himselfe exercise these acts . . the church-men are members of the church , the magistrate as such is a politick father and tutor of the church , but not formally , as he is such a member of the church . . the power of the magistrate is carnall , and corporall , and coactive upon the bodies ; for which cause , tylenus , daneus and others say , the externall man is the object of his power , the power of the church is spirituall , not carnall , not coactive , not bounded upon the body ; the church hath neither power of heading or hanging , but onely they may use the sword of the spirit , exhortations , rebukes , censures , excommunication . . edification to be procured by the word and sacraments and church-censures , is the end of church-power , but edification to be procured by the sword , is the end of the civill magistrate . . the magistrate judgeth not what is true and false to be beleeved simply , as teaching , instructing , and informing the conscience , but onely what is true and false to be beleeved or professed in relation to his sword and bodily punishment , or civill rewards . . the magistrates judgement is kingly , supreame , peremptory , and highest on earth , from which we are to provoke in no sort , except in appealing to god ; the churches judgement is ministeriall , conditionall , limited by the word of god. . the magistrates power is over all , heathen and christian , over men as men , and over men as christians , and agreeth to heathen and christian magistrates alike ; the church power agreeth onely to members of the church , and is onely over members of the church as they are such . . what ever causes the magistrate handleth , as hurtfull to the common-wealth , and contrary to the law of god , in a politicke and civill way , these same the churches handleth as they promote edification ; or if they be sinnes , the church cognosceth of them , sub ratique scandali , as they are church scandals . . the civill power is above the church-men as they are church-men , and members of a christian common-wealth , and the church power is above the magistrate as he is a member of the church and to be edified to salvation , or censured for scandals , matth. . . this. . . tim. . . and therefore there is both a mutuall subordination betwixt the honors , and also because both are highest and most supreme in their ●ind , they are also coordinate , and two parallel supreme powers on earth : as the church hath no politick power at all , so hath the church no politick power above the king , but he is the onely supreme power on earth immediate under god ; so the king hath no power formally and intrinsecally ecclesiasticall over either the church , or any member of the church , but the churches power is supreme under christ the king and head of the church . . the churches power may be without the magistrate , and is compleat both in being and operation , as acts . . and acts . , . cor. . , , , . without it , yet it is helped much by the magistrates power , which is cumulative , to ad help to the church , and not privative , to take away any right or priviledge from the church , for then the church should be in worse case and greater bondage , under a christian king , then if there were no king to defend the church at al , if the kings power were privative ; and it is true the churches own power is cumulative , & not privative , because the church hath no power to take nothing from it selfe ; but the king is to adde his royall ●●ield to the bride of christ , out of zeale to the honour of the bridegroome , for a politick promoving of godlinesse , which the church as such wanteth . but the kingly power though it may be , and is , in heathen nations perfect in its being without the church power , yet is it not perfect in its operations , as is said . . the church power is to goe before , and to define , prescribe and teach first , and the civill power to adde a civill sanction thereunto , as an accumulative and auxiliary supplement . . the magistrate hath no power properly to define controversies , yet hath he the power of the judgement and discretion , and also may with a coactive power cognosce in a politick way of church matters in reference to the use of the sword , but the church as the church hath a ministeriall power 〈◊〉 , to define controversies according to the word of god. . every one helpeth another to obtaine their owne ends , but hey cannot be contrary one to another formally , yet doe these differences prove , that the magistrate , as such , cannot detine in a synod , what is truly to be beleeved and practised by members of the church , what not . and also godly princes have refused this . hosius cordubensis writeth to constantius the arrian emperour , which words athanasius commendeth . desine , desine , quaeso , & memineris te mortalem esse , reformida di●m judi●ii , neque te immisecas eco'esiasticis , nec nobis in hoc genere praecipe , se●e● potius a nobis disce : tibi autem d●us imperiun● commisit , nobis autem quae sunt ecclesiae , concredidit . ambrosius epist. . ut alii . . ad marcellinam sororem , dicit , se valentiniano dicere , nolite gravare , imperator , ut ●u●es te in e t , quae divina sunt , imperiale jus habere , noli te extollere , sed si vis divinitus imperare , esto &c. subditus — ad imperatorem palatia pertinent , ad sacerdotem ecclesia ; publicorum tibi maenium jus ancessum est , non sacrorum . augustin . epist. . & . neque ausus est christianus imperator , sic eorum ( donaristarum ) tumultuosas et fallaces querelas suscipere , ut de judicio episcoporum , qui romae sederent , ipse judicaret . iis ipse ( imperator ) cessit ut de illa causa , post fpiseopos , ipse judicaret , a sanctis antistitibus postea veniam petitucus . chrysost. hom . . & . de verbis esa. qumquam admirandus videtur thronus regius , tamen rerum terrenarum administrationem sortitus est , nee praeter potestatem hanc , praetere ●quicquam autoritatis habet . leontius tripolis lydiae episcopus , cum constantius in eonventu episcoporum multa praescriberet , miror ( inquit ) qui fiat , ut aliis curandis destinatus , alia tractes , qui cum rei militari et reipublicae praesis , episcopis ea praescribas , quae ad solos pertinent episcopos . constantinus magnus in concilio niceno ( ut ait ruffinus hist. l. ● . addit . eusebio cap. . ) re●usavit ferre ju licium inter episcopos . d●us ( inquit ) vos constituit sacerdotes , & nobis a d●o d ●ti isiis judices , & conveniens non est , ut homo judicet deos . s●zomenus hist. l. . c. . mibi ( inquit ualentinianus senior ) qui sum in sorte plebis , fas non est talia negotia & ecclesiastica , ●erserutari ; sacerdotes , quorum ista curae funt , inter seipsos , quocunque voluerint loco , conveniant . theodosius junius epist. ad fphesinum synodum . deputatus est candidianus magnificus comes strenu●rum domesticorum transire usque ad sanctissimam synodum testram , ac in nullo quidem , quae facienda sunt , de piis dogmatibus qu●stiones ●ommunicare : illicitum namque est , eum qui non sit ex ord●●●anctorum episcoporum , ecclesiasticis immisceri tractatibus . gregorius mag. l. . epist. . notum est piissimos dominos dicip●inam diligere , ordines servare , canones venerari , & in causis sa 〈◊〉 ●ese non immiseere . distin. . c. satis evidenter , illicitum est imperatorihus ecchsiasti ● s● immiscere tractatibus . constantius would not take on him to judge the arrian cause , but conveened a councell , and commanded them to judge according to the word : so saith eusebius de vita constant. l. . c. . ad theodor. l. . c. . neither can it be said that constantine judged with the synod as emperour , as some affirme , for though it be true , yet he judged not in the synod as emperour , but as episcoporum conservus as he nameth himselfe , and as eusebius saith , de vita constant. l. . c. . ipse tanquam unus e vestro numero , non recusabam . now constantine as emperour was not a fellow-servant with pastors or one of the number , but above them , as the annointed of the lord ; but he judgeth with them , as one of their number , as a christian having one faith , one baptisme , one lord , with them ; and so as a member of the church , and so saith he in that same place , literarum divinitus inspiratarum testimonio res in quaestionem adductas dissolvamus . and let this be our first distinction . emperours of old defined in synods , as christian members of the church , not as emperours , for as emperours they be politicke heads of the men of the church . gerardus tom. . de magist. polit . n. . pag. , . who giveth also a nomotheticke power to magistrates in matters ecclesiasticall , furnisheth us with an argument here , because the magistrate is a principall member of the church , and all the members of the church are to judge and try the spirits , and to try all things , now this proveth well as a member of the church , and so as a christian he may judge , and that in a meere ecclesiastick way , as pastors and elders doth , as private christians may doe , being called thereunto by the church , though the ground be weake , for the kingly power maketh not new , tiberius and other emperours , members of the church , onely grace , faith , and communion with christ , maketh kings members of the invisible church , and baptisme and profession of the faith , and not any earthly prerogative of scepter , or crowne , maketh them members of the visible church . our second distinction from fathers , is , that emperours have a kingly power politicke to confirme , and adde their civill sanction to church constitutions , but they have no power formally ecclesiasticke to define and make church-lawes . so a augustine : as a man the king serveth the lord , vivendo fideliter , by living the life of a sound beleever , and as a king he serveth the lord , by adding the convenient vigour of a civill sanction to just lawes — as the king of ninive did , by compelling the men of ninive to pacifie god. and when gaudentius the donatist objected that the emperour could not take course with the schism made in the church by their separation , because god hath laid upon prophets , not upon kings , the preaching of the word : augustine b answereth , not that kings may either preach , or define controversies in the church , but that , sinco donatists separate from the church , it should be the care of kings to see , that none rebell against the church of christ. hence i reason thus , no synods ecclesiasticall can meddle with the blood and temporall lives of men , nor can they forbid the beliefe and profession of heresies and erroneous doctrine , or scandalls against pure discipline under the paine of bodily punishment , as banishment , imprisonment , heading or hanging . but emperours and kings , either in a synod or out of a synod , may lawfully forbid such things , and that by a kingly power , therefore if emperours in synods make any lawes of this kinde , they are not synodicall , nor ecclesiasticall lawes , nor doe they make such lawes , jointly with the church-synod , as some teach , nor by any ecclesiastick power , for coactive power , and ecclesiasticall power , cannot be joyned together as one power , to make one and the same ecclesiasticall lawes . let any judge then if the ancient lawes of some emperours were any other things , but civill and politick sanctions of church-constitutions . and judge of this law , which some call the ecclesiasticall determination of c heraclius the emperour by the consent of pope john , he ordained that there is n●●ther one nor two operations in christ. heraclius a monothelite commanded this under the paine of civill punishment , as is certaine . but had pope john as collaterall judge with the emperour in this , that same coactive power that the emperour had ? i thinke none can say it . so d three emperours commanded all people to hold the doctrine of the trinity , and that those who hold not this be heretickes . this is but a civill sanction of a church law. so e martianus commandeth that the decrees of the councell of chalcedon be established , and that no man dispute or call in question these decrees . this is clearely the emperours civill ratification of church-lawes : and f justinianus forbiddeth any publick service to be in the church by laicks onely , in the absence of the clergie , and g commandeth the bishops not to muttter in to themselves , but to speake in the administration of the sacraments with a cleare and distinct voice . if emperours did proceede any further , as some say that theodosius deposed the nestorian bishops , though indeed he onely h commanded them to be deposed , their deeds are not lawes , a facto ad jus non valet consequentia . papists here are in two extremities . for . they will not have princes to meddle with church-affaires , whereas by office they are nurs-fathers in the church . charles the fift is rebuked by paul the third , because he conveened councells for composing of dissentions in the church , and he compareth him to uzzah , who touched the arke without warrant , as we may see i wolsius . . stapleton , bellarmine , k and papists will have them to be brutish servants , to execute whatsoever the pope and councells shall decree , good or bad , without examination also ; as l suarez , the councell of paris , their n law saith , and o innocentius the first , and p gregory the seventh doe teach : making kings in their judgement slaves to the pope and ' his determinations , and to have no light but from their vertuall church , as the moone hath all her light from the sunne . our third distinction is , that the magistrate as magistrate , and a preserver of publicke peace , may doe some thing , when a schisme and dissention is among the church-men in a synod . . in this case he may punish perturbers of peace , as augustine answereth q gaudentius the donatist , and the separaters from the church , in which case the magistrate indirectly condemneth one of the parties , which the church hath condemned : but there be many other cases of dissention in this case ; therefore when the magistrate findeth the synod divided in two parties equally ; or three , i● the corrupt part prevaile ; or foure , in the case of the churches aberration in one particular fact : or five , if there be an universall apostasie of the whole representative church : or sixe , an universall defection of both the representative and essentiall church : all these being too casuall and of too frequent occurrence , one and the same answer cannot be given , and here be sundry subalterne distinctions considerable . hence our fifth conclusion : when there is an equall rupture in the body , nothing extraordinary would be attempted , if ordinary wayes can be had : if saul the ordinary magistrate had at gods commandement killed hagag , samuel the prophet should not have drawne his sword , and therefore in this case the magistrate would first seeke helpe from other churches , as that r learned apollonius saith . but if that cannot be conveniently had , as in a nationall church it may fall out , then the magistrate as a preserver of peace and truth , may command the sincerer part to conveene in a synod , and doe their duty , as the good kings of the people of god did : chron. . asa gathered together a people who entered in covenant to seeke the lord god with all their heart , and layed an obligation of punishment to death on the rest , v. , . and jehoshaphat , chron. . . he layed charge on hilkiah the high priest , and the priests of the second order , whom he knew to be better affected to the worke , to bring out the vessels made for baal ; which proveth that the king should put the sincerest to doe that , which in common belongeth to the whole , in which case of the erring of the most part of the church , the prince indirectly condemneth the erring part of the synod , because it is his place to forbid and to punish with the sword , the transgressors of gods law. but because his power is accumulative , not privative , under that pretence hee hath not power to hinder the sincerer part to meet and determine according to the word of god. . conclusion . in the case of the prevailing of the corrupt part of the church , or in the fourth case of the aberration of the church in one particular , the king hath a regall power to punish the canonists , if they shall decree in their synod popery , and hereticall doctrine , and so give to the bride of christ noysome and deadly milke ; the prince as nursefather may punish the canonists . . because hee is a keeper of both tables of the law , and hath a royall power to inflict bodily punishment upon all sinnes , even committed , in foro exteriore ecclesiae , as the king may punish false teachers . . because the magistrates power is auxiliary & accumulative , as a tutor and nur●efather , who hath law to helpe the pupill , and to adde to the inheriritance , but hath no law nor power to take away any part of the inheritance from the pupill ; ergo , as a nursefather , hee is to helpe the church of christ , against the wicked canons of the representative church . if any object , then the king as king hath power to rescind and annull the ecclesiasticall canons ; the contrary whereof that learned author of altare damascenum s doth prove . i answer , that learned and worthy author proveth that the prince cannot annull the church-canons , and that the councell of trent thought shame that the pope should absolve any condemned by the church-canons ; and certainely the same power that maketh canons should dissolve them ; but the kings power cannot make church-canons , for it is a part of the ministeriall calling to make canons , and therefore hee cannot annull and dissolve canons : but some greater kingly power is due to the king in the case of the churches aberring , then in the case of the churches right administration ; and as our divines doe justly give to the prince an extraordinary kingly power in the case of universall apostasie of the church , as jehoshaphat , hezekiah , josiah , and other worthy reformers in the church of the ●ewes , did warrantably use their kingly power , when the church-men were corrupted and negligent in their dutie ; so in a particular case of a particular error of the synod , the king as king , may use his kingly power in this fact , that is , secundum quid extraordinarie , for the king is oblieged as king to adde his accumulative power of a civill sanction to all just and n●cessary church constitutions , and it the canon or church constitution bee wicked and popish , he is oblieged to deny his civill sanction , and not that onely , ( for hee that is not with christ is against him ) but hee is to imploy his kingly power against such canons , and so is to deliver the church of god in that , and in denying his accumulative power to unjust canons , hee addeth his kingly power accumulative to the true church , in saving them from these unjust canons . . also it may bee objected , if the king by a regall and coactive power may annull and rescind unjust canons , hee may by this coactive power make canons , for it is that same power to make and unmake canons . i answer , if hee may annull unjust canons , that is , liberate his subjects from civill punishment to bee inflicted for refusing obedience to such canons , and for bid the practise of wicked church constitutions under the paine of the sword ; it will not follow , that therefore hee may make canons , but onely that hee may adde his civill sanction to just canons . . neither can the king properly annull the canon , but onely deny to adde his civill authoritie for the execution of such canons . but thirdly , it is objected , that the king bath a judgement that such canons are wicked and superstition ; the church-mens judgement at the assembly of glascow , edenbrough , an . , . is that such canons are lawfull , edificative , and necessary , then is the king obliged as king to deny his royall sanction , and who shall bee judge in the matter ? if you say the word of god , it satisfyeth not , because both the king , and the synod , alledgeth the word of god , as norm ● judicandi , a rule of judging , but the rule of judging is not formally the judge , but wee uske who shall bee the visible ministeriall and vocall judge under christ , speaking in his owne testament , for the king is a politick and civill judge , and the church an ecclesiasticall judge . i answer , this same is the question betwixt us and papists anent the judge of controversies , whether the judge bee a synod or the scriptures ; and wee answer by a distinction , the scripture is norm i judicandi . . christ , the peremptory and infallible judge speaking in his owne word . . a synod lawfully conveened , is a limited , ministeriall , and bounded visible judge , and to bee beleeved in so farre as they follow christ the peremptory and supreme judge speaking in his owne word . but wee deny that there is on earth any peremptory and in fallible visible judge . but to come yet nearer ; if the king have sworne to that same religion which the church doth professe , and so acknowledge and professe the reformed religion of that church , hee must then acknowledge the lawfull officers of that church to bee his ordinary teachers , and the lawfull ministers of the church , and that they are both in a synod , and out of the synod , to preach , and to bee ministeriall definers of things contraverted , and that they shall first determine in an ecclesiasticall way according to gods word , and hee as king is to command them to determine according to gods word , under the paine of civill punishment , and the kings civill and coactive way of judging is posterior and ratificator●e of the right and oxthodox ecclesiasticall determination , and junius saith that the magistrates judging politick , presupposeth the church judging ecclesiasticall , going before ; and d calvin e and amesius are cleare that in this case the church is to cognosce of hee owne ecclesiasticall affaires . ambrose writeth to the emperor valentinian , that none should judge of this cause which is ecclesiasticall as one said , but a church-man , qui nec munere sit impar , ne●jure dissimilis . gelasius the pope inveigheth against anastasius the emperour , because hee confounded these two , civill and ecclesiasticall causes . but if the emperour or king professe not the religion of the land , and repute it false , and if the religion bee indeed hereticall , then the church is not constitute , and the case extraordinary ; but the truth is , neither the kings judgement , as a certaine rule to the representative church , nor the representative churches judgement a rule to the king , but the word of god the infallible rule to both . judgement may crooke , truth cannot bow , it standeth still unmoveable like god the father of truth ; but in this case if both erre , ex cellently saith f junius , the magistrate erring the church may do something extraordinarily , and t●e church erring the magistrate may do something also in an extraordinary way , as cōmon equitie and mutuall law requireth that friends with mutuall tongues bicke the wounds of friends . also fourthly , some say , they who make the king the head of the church , acknowledge that the king doth not judge , except the matter be first defined in the scriptures , and in the generall councells , yet they give a primacie spirituall in matters ecclesiasticall to the king , and therefore if the king as king may forbid the inacting of wicked canons , hee determineth them to bee wicked , before the synod have passed their judgement of them . i answer , that learned g calderwood saith indeed , the pretended lords of high commission have an act for them under h queene elizabeth for this effect , but it is made for the fashion , for all errors and heresies are condemned in scripture , but not onely should there bee a virtuall and tacit determination of matters ecclesiastick , which is undeniably in scripture , and may bee in generall councells also , but also a formall synodicall determination in particular must goe before the princes determination in a constitute church . the prince may before the synods determination exhort to the determination of what hee conceiveth is gods will in his word , but hee cannot judicially and by a kingly power determine in an orderly way , what is to bee defined in a synod , except hee infringe the churches liberties , and judicially prelimit under the paine of civill punishments , the free voyces of the members of the synod , which is indeed , an abuse of the authoritie of a nurs-father . but fiftly , it may bee objected that hee may , in a thing that is manifestly evident by the word of god to bee necessary truth , command by the power of the sword , that the synod decree that , or this particular , so cleare in the word , the contrary whereof being synodically determined , hee may punish by the sword , and so hee may judicially predetermine some things before the s●nod passe their synodicall act thereon , and if hee may predetermine judicially one thing , hee may predetermine all things . i answer : what the king may judicially determine and pun●●h with the sword , that hee cannot judicially predetermine and command in any order that hee pleaseth , but in a constitute church , whereof hee is a member and to bee taught , hee is to determine judicially in an orderly way , as a nurs-father . but sixtly , it may bee objected , that if the king have a judiciall power by the sword to annull unjust acts , then hath hee a power to 〈◊〉 them , though hee abuse that power in making them , as unjust , and then hath hee a power to interpret church acts , and to defend them ; 〈…〉 law i saith , it is not same power to make lawes , and to d●●●nd them , and interpret them : see k paraeus . i answer , the proposition is not universally necessary , except onely in civill matters , in the which , as the prince who is absolute hath supreme authority to defend , and interpret civill lawes , so hath hee power to make them ; for if the magistrate hath a supreme judiciall power to interpret church-lawes , hee is a minister of the gospell in that case , and may by that same reason administer the sacraments , so the argument is a just begging of the question . . though the king have power in case of the church aberration ( which is somewhat extraordinary ) it followeth not therefore , in ordinary , hee hath a nomothetick power to make church-lawes . also seventhly , it may bee objected , if the king in case of the churches aberration , may by the sword rescind church-lawes , then may hee make a law to rescind them : but those who a●firme that the king hath a sort of primacie and headship over the church , say not that the king hath any power formally ecclesiasticall to make lawes , as ministers in a synod do , but onely that hee hath a power to command any forme of externall worship , under the paine of bodily punishment , they say not that the king may preach , administrate the sacraments , or excommunicate or inflict any church-censures . i answer , the transcendent power of princesand their commissioners is not well knowne , for the authors ( saith l calderwood ) agree not among themselves ; but it is true in words , the author m est tortura torti , the bishop of eli denyeth in words ( if you have strong faith to beleeve him ) all spirituall headship over the church , to the king , and n burbillus also . but o henric. salcobrigiensis calleth the king primatem ecclesiae anglicanae , the primate of the church of england and ●ges oleo sacro uncti , capaces sunt jurisdictionis spiritualis , because they are annointed with holy oyle , therefore are they capable of spirituall jurisdiction ; also may ( saith hee p creat propria autoritate , by his owne authoritie , create bishops and d●prive them . see what q calderwood hath said , and excerped out of the writings of these men ; the king as king , . convocateth synods ; . defineth ecclesiasticall canons ; . giveth to them the power of an ecclesiasticall law ; . executeth church canons ; . appointeth commissioners , who in the kings authoritie and name , may try heresies and errors in doctrine , punish non-conformitie to popish ceremonies , may confine , imprison , banish ministers ; . descerne excommunication and all church censures , and use both the swords ; . relax from the power and censures of all ecclesiastick lawes , give dispensations , annull the censures of the church , upon causes knowne to them , give dispensations against canons , unite or separate parish churches , or diocesan churches ; and by a mixt power partly coactive and civill , partly of jurisdiction and spirituall , the king may doe in foro externo , in the externall court of church discipline , all and every act of discipline , except hee cannot preach , baptize , or excommunicate . and whereas cartwright saith , when a lawfull minister shall agree upon an unlawfull thing , the prince ought to stay it ; and if church ministers shew themselves obstinate , and will not bee advised by the prince , they prove themselves to be an unlawfull ministery , and such as the prince is to punish with the sword . o but , saith hee r the author of the survey , how shall the prince helpe the matter ? shall be compell them to conveene in a synod , and retract their mind ? but they will not doe this . . by what authoritie shall the prince doe this ? even by extraordinary authority , even by the same right that david did eate of the shew-bread , if by ordinary authority the prince would doe it , yet doe you resist that authority also . answ. though the prince had not externall force to compell church-men to decree in their synods things equall , holy , ju● , and necessary , yet it followeth not that the king as king hath not gods right , and lawfull power to command and injoyne them to doe their dutie ; force and law differ much , as morall and physicall power differ much . . if they decree things good , lawfull and necessary , the prince hath a power given him of god to ratifie , confirme , and approve these by his civill sanction , but hee hath no power ordinary to infringe , or evert what they have decreed . . and if the church bee altogether uncorrigible and apostate , then wee say as followeth . . conclution . when the representative church is universally apostaticall , then may the prince use the helpe of the church essentiall of found beleevers , for a reformation , and if they also bee apostatick , ( which cannot be , except the lord utterly have removed his candlestick ) wee see not what hee can doe , but heare witnesse against them , but if there bee any secret seeker of god , in whose persons the essence of a true church is conserved . the king by a royall power , and the law of charitie is oblieged to reforme the land , as the godly kings , with a blessed successe have hitherto done , asa , j●siah , jehoshaphat , 〈◊〉 , in which case the power of reformation , and of performing many acts , of due belonging to the church officers , are warrantably performed by the king as in a diseased body , in an extraordinary manner power recurreth from the members to the ●●●●tick head and christian prince , who both , as a king , 〈◊〉 ●● , in an authoritative way is oblieged to do more then ord●●●y , and as a christian member of the church , in a charitative and common way , is to care for the whole body . . conclusion . the influence of the princes regall power in making constitutions is neither solitary , as if the prince his 〈…〉 could doe it ; nor is it . collaterall , as if the prince and church with joynt concurrence of divers powers did it ; nor is . as some flatterers have said , so eminently spirituall as the consultation and counsell of pastors , for light onely hath influence in churches canons , but the princes power hath onely the power to designe , so as the canon hath from the prince the power of a law in respect of us . the kings influence in church canons ( as wee thinke ) is as a christian antecedent , to exhort that the lord jesus bee served ; . concomitant , as a member of the church to give a joynt suffrage with the synod ; . consequent , as a king to adde his regall sanction to that which is decreed by the church according to gods word , or otherwise to punish what is done amisse . now that the prince as a solitary cause , his alone defineth church matters and without the church , and that by his ordinary kingly power , wanteth all warrant of the word of god. . the king might have given out that constitution , act. . it seemeth good to the holy ghost , and to us , which in reason is due to the ministeriall function , for these are called act. . . the decrees of the apostles and elders , not the decrees of the king or emperour , either by law or fact . . christ ascending to heaven gave officers requisite for the gathering of his church , and the edification of the body of christ , but amongst these in no place we finde the king. . if this bee true , heathen kings have right to make church-canons , though they bee not able , and bee not members of the christian church , and so without , and not to bee judged by the church , nor in any case censured , matth. . . . cor. . . and this directly is a king pope , who giveth lawes by a kingly power to the church , and yet cannot bee judged by the church . burhillus and thomson acknowledge that a heathen king is primat and head of the church ; and must hee not then have power aciu primo , to make lawes , and to feede the flocke by externall government ? but lancel . andreas , biship of ely s tortura torti saith that a heathen king hath a temporall kingly power , without any relation to a church power , and when hee is made of a heathen king a christian king , bee acquireth a new power . but the question is , if this new power be a new kingly power , or if it be a power christian to use rightly his former kingly power ; if the first bee true ; then . as learned voetius t and good reason saith , hee was not a king before hee was a christian , for the essence of the kingly power standeth in an indivisible point , and the essence of things admit not of degrees . . then should hee bee crowned over againe , and called of god to bee a christian king , and so hee was not a king before , which is against scripture ; for nebuc●adnezzar was to bee obeyed , and prayed for as king by the people of god , at jeremiahs expresse commandement . . so a pagan husband becomming a christian should by that same reason acquire a new husband-right over his wife ; contrary to the cor. . , , . the captains , or masters , who of heathens become christians , should obtaine a new right and power over their souldiers and servants , and they should come under a new oath and promise to their captaines and masters . . if the heathen king have onely temporall kingly power , he had no power as king to take care that god were worshipped according to the dictates of the law of nature , and law of nations , & had power to punish , perjury , sodomie , parricid , as sins against the law of nature , and the heathen king should not by office and kingly obligation bee oblieged to be a keeper and a defender of the tables of the law of nature , which is against all sense . but if the power which a heathen king becomming a christian king acquireth , be onely a christian power to use for christ the kingly power that hee had while hee was a heathen king , then a heathen king , jure regali , by a regall right is the head of the church , though hee bee a woolfe and a leopard set over the redeemed flocke of christ ; yea though hee bee the great turke , hee is a pastor called of god & the church , though for his moralls , hee bee a woolfe and a hireling , yet by office and law , hee is a feeder of the flocke . talis est aliquis , qualem ius offi●ii requirit . and certainly it is impossible that a heathen king can bee a member of the true church , hee wanting both faith and profession , which doe essentially constitute a church-membership : if it bee said hee is ex officio , by his office a member , that is nothing else but hee ought to bee a member of the church , so all mankind are members of the church , for they are oblieged to obey christ , and submit to him upon the supposall of the revealed gospel , and the heathen king is no otherwise a member by the obligation regall that layeth upon him as king ; yea when the gospel is preached , and the heathen king converted to the faith , hee is not a member of the christian church , as a king , but as a converted professor , and so christianitie maketh him not a kingly head of the church , but what essentially constituteth him a king , that also constituteth him a christian king ; christianitie is an accidentall thing undoubtedly to the office of a king. . they doe no lesse erre , who make the king and the church officers collaterall judges in church matters , so as with joynt and co●quall influence they should bee canon makers . . because perfect synods are and have beene in the apostolick church without any influence collaterall of christian magistrates , as being against their will and mind , who were rulers of the people , as acts . , . acts . , . acts . , . acts . , , , . acts . , , . &c. . what the church decreeth in the name of christ , standeth valid and ratified in heaven and earth , matth. . , . joh. . , . whether the magistrate assent to it or not , so that he hath not a negative voyce in it by any ecclesiastick power , for christ saith not , what yee bind on earth , in my name , shall be bound in heaven , except the magistrate deny , as a collaterall judge , his suffrage ; now if he be a collaterall judge by divine institution , no church act should be valid in christs court without him , as excommunication not in the name of christ , or performed by those who are not the church , but onely in civill offices , is not excommunication ; also what ever the magistrate doth , as the magistrate , he doth it by the power of the sword . ergo , if he take vengeance on the ill doer , as his office is , rom. . . . his acts are ratified in heaven , though the church as collaterall judges say not amen thereunto . . the coactive power of the king , and the ecclesiasticall power of the church , differ as carnall and spirituall , spirituall and not spirituall , of this world , and not of this world , and are not mixed by the word oft , as joh. . . cor. . , . tim. . . and therefore it in one and the same church constitution , the king and the church be joynt and coequall judges and joynt definers , the constitution must both be injoyned under the paine of bodily punishment , which the church , whose weapons are not carnall , cannot command , and under the paine of church censures , as suspension , rebukes , and excommunication the king must command . now the canon should neither be an ecclesiasticall , nor yet a civill canon , but mixt , for the canon makers injoyneth with powers and paines which are not due unto them , nor in their power . now to make a law ( saith w feild ) is to prescribe ●●aw under the paine , which the law-maker hath power to inflict : but neither hath the church the power of the sword , cor. . , . joh. . . nor hath the king , by gods ●aw , the power of excommunication . see x calderwood . and one and the same law should be backed both by a carnall and worldly power , and not by a worldly and carnall power . . the king as king must have a mixt power , halfe kingly , ●●● halfe ecclesiastick , and by the same reason , the church must have a mixt power , partly ecclesiasticall and partly civill , and this were to confound the two kingdomes , the kingdome of this world , and the spirituall kingdome of christ , which is not of this world , joh. . . condemned by y anselm● , and a hilarius , and b bernard , and c augustin . put if they say , that every one hath their influence partialitate causae , non eff●cii , according to the nature of causes , then is not one and the same church constitution from both king and church . see d apollonius . but the kings canon is civill , the churches ecclesiasticall , and every one of them without another , perfect in their one kind . see e what the learned gerson , bucer , and f amesius saith , further to adde light to this point . those who maintaine a third , that the church canons hath all the power of being church lawes from the king , and all ecclesiasticall and oblieging authority from him , and that they have onely some helpe of consulting power from the church , are grosser divines . see g joan. weemes , for so the king is the onely canon maker , and the church-men giveth advice onely , as h the kings proclamation speaketh , having taken 〈◊〉 counsell of our clergy , we command such a worship , & ● . and so the canon runneth , it seemeth good to the holy ghost and the king as the canon speaketh , acts . . the king is made an ecclesiasticall and ministeriall pr●acher to expone publikely the scriptures to the church of god , for all lawfull church canons are but ecclesiasticall expositions of gods word , and so the emperours and christian kings are the onely lawfull canon makers and definers in oecumenick councels , and bishops , and pastors , and doctors have all a meere power of advising and counselling , which certainely all christians on earth sound in the faith , except women , have . o whither are all the tomes of the councels oecumenick , nationall , and provinciall , evanished unto ? . kings justly by this are made popes , and more then popes , for kings onely have a definitive voyce in councells , whereas papists give a definitive voyce to all the lawfull members of the councell , no lesse then to the pope . i weemes hath a distinction to save the kings invading the church-mens place , while as hee giveth to pastors a ministeriall interpretation of scripture in the pulpit , and to the king a decretive and imperiall power of interpreting scripture in the senat. but . there is no exposition of the word at all imperiall , but onely ministeriall by the word of god , except that imperiall interpretation , that the pope usurpeth over the consciences of men , and this is as k bancroft said , that the king had all the honors , dignities and preheminencies of the pope , as l calderwood observeth , and yet edward the sixth , and edward the eighth would neither of them take so much on them . what difference betwixt a sermon made by the king in the senat , and the pastor in the pulpit ? it is that same word of god preached ; only the kings is imperiall , and so must bee in his owne as king , the pastors ministeriall , in the name of christ ; the distance is too great . the administration of the sacraments may be imperiall due to the king also , as a pastorall administration is due to the pastors . in the government of church there is nothing set downe of the king , but of pastors , to feede the flocke , act. . , . to edifie the body of christ , ephes. . . to rule the house of god , tim. . , , . . to feede the sheepe and lambs of christ , john . , , . and alwayes this is given to pastors and elders . i know that kings are nurs-fathers , to feed , edifie , and watch over the church , causatively , by causing others so to doe ; but this will not content the formalists , except the king command and prescribe the externall worship of god. tooker , bancroft , whitegift , la●celot andreas , salcobrigiensis have a maine distinction here : that pastors and elders rule the church , as it is an invisible body , by the preaching of the word and administration of the sa●raments , and of this government the foresaid places speake : but as the church is a politick visible body , the government thereof is committed to the king. m bancroft said all the externall government of the church is earthly , and w●i●e●gyft and bancroft two grosse divines made for the court , say t●e externall government of the church , because externall , is ●●spi●●tuall , and not a thing belonging to christs externall kingdome , ( ●aith bil●●n : ) but this is , false , . popish , . anabaptisticall , . ●yrannicall . false , . because externall and vocall preaching , and a visible administration of the sacrament in such an orderly way , as christ hath instituted , is an externall ruling of church members according to the ●aw of christ as king , an externall ordaining of the worship , is an externall ordering of the worshippers according to the acts of worship thus ordered , as sense teacheth us : but the externall ordaining of the worship , to preach , this , not this , to celebrate in both kinds , by prayer and the words of institution , and not in one kind onely , is an externall ordering of gods worship : therefore as kings cannot administrate the sacraments , nor preach , so neither can they have the externall government of the church in their ●ands . . the feeding of the flocke by pastors set over the church by the holy ghost , act. . . includeth the censuring by discipline , even the grievous woolves entring in , not sparing the flocke , but drawing disciples after them , vers . , , . and therefore pastors as pastors are to watch , and to try those who say they are apostles 〈◊〉 not , but doe lie , r●vel . . . by discipline ; so this externall ●e●ding is externall governing committed to pastors , whereas inward governing is indeed proper to christ the head of the church . . what ? doe not the epistles to timothy containe comman dements about externall government to bee kept invi●●able by timothy , not as a king i hope , but as a pastor , even 〈◊〉 the appearing of our lord jesus christ , tim. . . and this taketh away that poore shif● , that the externall government of the church , as n tookerus saith , was in the apostles hands , so long as persecuting magistrates were over the church . but now , when the magistrates are christians , the case is changed , but the government of all su●● as timothy is , must bee visible , externall , and obvious to men , as tim. . , , , . . , , , . ● . . tim . . tim. . , , , . tim. . , , , . tim. . all which must bee kept untill the comming of christ , tim. . . tim. . . tim. . , . . if externall government were in the kings power , then were it his part to rebuke publikely , to excommunicate , and to lay on hands upon the timothies of the church ; all which are denied by the formalists , and are undoubtedly the churches part , as the church , matth. . , . tim. . , , , , tim. . . tim. . . cor. . , , , . . o parker proveth well that the keyes are christ as kings ruling in word and discipline . . this is popish , for so doth the papists teach , as p stapleton and q becanus , that the pope , quo ad externum infiuxum , according to externall influence of visible government is head of the church , and christ according to the internall influence of the spirit is the head of the invisible body of christ , and here the king is installed in that externall government , out of which our divines by scriptures have extruded the pope , which is a notable dishonor done to kings ; and as r parkerus observeth . s joan. raynoldus answereth that , from two offices of the head , which is to give life and influence of motion to the members , and also to guide and moderate the actions externall of the body , wee cannot make two heads ; and because the king hath some civill government about the church , wee cannot make two heads over the church , christ one , and the king another under him . . this is anabaptisticall ; for because the visible government of the church is externall , wee are not to cut off all necessitie of the ministery to feed and rule with ecclesiasticall authority , and because the prince is gifted and a christian , to give all to him , for a calling there must bee from god , for the king to governe the church of christ by lawes , and prescribing externall worship therein , for christ hath left , ephes. . cor. . tim. . men to bee feeders and governours of his church by office , whose it is to bee answerable for soules , heb. . . . it is tyrannicall , because it putteth power into the magistrates hand , to take from the church , that inbred and in●rinsecall power of externall and visible government over her selfe and members , which all civill incorporations by instinct of nature have , and the magistrate , as such , not being a member of the church hath a headship , even being a heathen magistrate , over the redeemed body of christ. . by this reason , the lord jesus as king hath no pastors in his name to use the ●●ves of his kingdom , by binding and loosing ; for discipline being an externall thing ( say they ) is not a part of christs kingly power , but the king as christs civill vicar hath this power : but i say all acts of christ as hee is efficacious by the gospel to gaine soules , are acts of christ as powerfull by the scepter of his word , and those who are his instruments to exercise these acts are subordined to him as king of the church , but church-men by an externall ecclesiasticall power delivering to satan , and externally and visibly casting out of the church , that the spirit may bee saved in the day of the lord , are instruments subordined to christ , who is efficacious to save spirits by excommunication , and to gaine soules by rebukes . t gregorius magnus saith , those to whom christ hath given the keyes of his kingdome , by these hee judgeth , and why is this word the word of his kingdome ? the scepter of his kingdome ? the sword that commeth out of his mouth , by which hee governeth his subjects , and subdueth nations , so called ? but because christs kingly power is with those , whom hee hath made dispensators of his word . . conclusion . nor hath the king power of ordaining pastors , or depriving them , or of excommunication . . all these are acts of spirituall and ecclesiasticall power , tim. . . tim. . . act. . . act. . . act. . . tit. . , . and flow from the power of the keyes , given by christ to his apostles and their successors , matth. . , , . mark. . , , . joh. . , , . hence i argue , to whom christ hath given out his power , as king of the church , matth. . , . power of the keyes , matth. . . matth. . . and a commandement to lay hands , and ordaine qualified men , for the ministry , and those who by the holy ghosts direction practised that power by ordaining of elders , these onely have right to ordaine elders , and their successors after them : but apostles and their successors onely are those to whom christ gave that power , and who exercised that power , as the places prove . . ordination and election both in the primitive church of the apostles was done by the church , and consent of the multitude , act. . act. . , , . , , &c. but the civill magistrate is neither the church , nor the multitude . . ordination is an act formally of an ecclesiasticall power , but the magistrate as the magistrate , hath no ecclesiasticall power ; ergo , hee cannot exercise an act of ecclesiasticall power . . if ordination were an act of kingly power , due to the king as king ; then . the apostles and elders usurped in the apostolick church the office and throne of the king , and that behoved to bee in them an extraordinary and temporary power , but wee never find rules tying to the end of the world , given to timothies and elders of the church anent the regulating of extraordinary and temporary power , that were against the wisedome of god to command timothy to commit the word to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , as tim. . . and to set downe the qualification of pastors , elders , doctors , and deacons to timothy , as a church man , with a charge to keepe such commandements unviolable to christs second appearing ; if timothy and his successors in the holy ministry were to bee denuded of that power , by the incoming of christian magistrates . . the king by the laying on of his hands , should appoint elders in every citie , and the spirits of the prophets should bee subject to the king , not to the prophets , as the word saith , cor. . . . those who have a church power to ordaine and deprive pastors , must by office try the doctrine , and be able to 〈…〉 sayers , and to finde out the foxes in their hereticall wayes , and to rebuke them sharpely , that they may bee sound in the faith : but this by office is required of pastors , and not of the king , as is evident , tim. . . tim. . ● . tit. . , , . it is not enough to say , it is sufficient that the king try the abilities of such as are to bee ordained , and the bontgates of hereticall spirits to bee deprived , by pastors and church men , their counsell and ministery , and upon their testimony the king is to ordaine , and make , or exauthorate , and unmake pastors ; because . so were the king a servant by office , to that which church men shall by office determine , which they condemne in our doctrine , which wee hold in a right and sound meaning . . he who by office is to admit to an office , and deprive from an office , must also by office , bee obliged to bee such as can try what the office requireth of due to bee performed by the officer ; nor is it enough which some say , that the ignorance of the king in civill things taketh not away his legall power to judge in civill things , and by that same reason , his ignorance in church matters taketh not away his power to judge in ecclesiasticall matters , for i doe not reason from gifts and knowledge that is in the king simply , but from gifts which ●x●fficio , by vertue of his kingly office is required in him . it is ●●ue as king hee is oblieged to read continually in the book of the law of god ▪ deut. . and to know what is truth , what here●ie , in so fa●re as hee commandeth that pastors preach sound doctrine , and that as a judge hee is to punish heresie . some say hee is to have the knowledge of private discretion , as a christian , that hee punish not blindly . i thinke hee is to know judicially as a king , . because hee hath a regall and judiciall knowledge of civill things , even of the major proposition and not of the assumption and fact onely . ergo , seeing hee is by that same kingly power to judge of treason , against the crown & the civill state , by which he is to judge of heresie , & to punish heresie , it would seeme as king hee is to cognosce in both , by a kingly power , both what is law , and what is fact . . because the judgement of private discretion , common to all christians , is due to the king as a christian , not as a king : but the cognition that the king is to take of heresie and blasphemy , whether it bee heresie or blasphemy , that the church ●●●●eth heresie and blasphemy , is due to the king as king , because hee is a civill judge therein , and if the church should call christs doctrine blasphemy , caesar and his deputie pontius pilat , as judges civill , are to judge it truth . neither would i ●●i●●●ly here contend ; for whether the kings knowledge of herese in the major proposition bee judiciall , or the knowledge of discretion onely , as some say , wee agree in this against papist● , that the king is not a blind servant to the church , to punish what the church calleth heresie , without any examination or tryall ▪ but though the kings knowledge of heresie in the proposition and in law , bee judiciall and kingly , yet because hee is to cognosce onely in so farre as hee is to compell and punish with the sword , not by instructing and teaching . it would not hence follow that hee is to make church constitutions as king , but onely that hee may punish those who maketh wicked constitutions , because the canon maker is a ministeriall teacher , the king as king may command that hee teach truth , and hee may punish hereticall teaching , but as king he is not a teacher , either in synod or senate , in pulpit or on the throne ; now if the king by office ordaine pastors , and deprive them , by office hee is to know who are able to teach others , a●d must bee able also to stop the mouthes of the adversaries , and to rebuke them sharpely , that they may bee sound in the faith , and this is required in titus , ch. . , , , , . as a pastor , and as an ordainer of other pastors ; therefore that which is required of a pastor by his office , must also bee required to bee in the king by his office . . it is admirable that they give to kings power to deprive ministers , but with these distinctions . . he may not discharge them to preach and administer the sacraments , but to preach and administer the sacraments in his kingdome , or dominions , because the king hath a dominion of places . . hee may discharge the exercise of the ministery ; but hee cannot take away the power of order given by the church . . hee may deprive ( say some ) by a coactive and civill degradation , because the supreme magistrate may conferre all honours in the christian common-wealth , ergo , hee may take them away againe , but hee cannot deprive by a canonicall and ecclesiasticall degradation . . hee may caus●tively deprive , that is , compell the church to deprive one whom he judgeth to bee an heretick , and if the church refuse , hee may then in case of the churches erring , and negligence , as king deprive himselfe . but i answer , the king as king hath dominion civill of places and times , as places and times , but not of places as sacred in use , and of times as sacred and religious : for his power in church matters being accumulative , not privative , hee cannot take away a house dedicated to gods service , no more then hee can take away maintenance allotted by publick authority , upon hospitalls , schooles , doctors and pastors . god hath here a sort of proprietie of houses and goods as men have . places as sacred abused are subject to regall power , hee may inhibit conventions of hereticks . . the apostles might preach in the temple , though civill authoritie forbid them . . kings are as much lords of places as sacred and publick , as they have a dominion of civill places , in respect the king may be coactive power hinder that false and hereticall doctrine bee preached , either in publick , or private places , for this hee ought to doe as a preserver of both tables and a beare of the sword for the good of religion ; and if they may command pure doctrine to bee preached , and sound discipline to be exercised , they may command the same to bee done in publick places . the second distinction is not to purpose . . to discharge the exercise of a ministery ( saith u calderwood ) is a degree of suspension , and suspension is an ecclesiasticall degree to the censures of excommunication , and therefore the king may as well excommunicate , and remit and retaine sinnes , ( which undoubtedly agreeth to the apostles , ) as hee can suspend . . as for taking away the power of order , it is a doubt to formalists , if the church can doe that at all , seeing they hold sacraments administred by ministers justly deprived to bee valid ; ergo , they must acknowledge an indeleble character in pastors , which neither king nor church can take away . if then the king deprive from the exercise , hee must simpliciter deprive , by their grounds it is weake that they say , the king may deprive from the exercise of a ministry within his owne dominions ; for ( saith calderwood x they all know well that the king hath not power to deprive men from the exercise of the holy ministery , in ether forraine kingdomes . for the third way of deprivation , it hath a double meaning also . . if the meaning bee , that as the king by a regall and coactive power may take away all honours , either civill or ecclesiasticall , as hee giveth all honours , then this way of depriving ministers cannot bee given to the king , for the king may give and take away civill honours , for reasonable causes , according to the lawes . but in ecclesiasticall honours there bee three things . . the appointing of the honour of the office to bee an ambassadour of christ. . to give the true foundation and reall ground of a church honour , that is , gifts and gracious abilities for the calling , neither of these two doe come either from king or church , or from mortall men , but onely from jesus christ , who ascending on high gave gifts unto men , and appointeth both office , and giveth grace for to discharge the office . yea since morall philosophy maketh honor to bee praemium 〈◊〉 , a reward of vertue ; the king doth not give that which is the soundation of honour civill , for civill vertue is a grace of god but in church honour there is a third , to wit , a de●●●nation of a qualified man , for the sacred office of the ministry , and an ordination by the imposition of hands used in the apostolick church , act. . . act. . . act. . tim. . tim. . whether imposition of hands bee essentiall to ordination , or not , i disput not , it is apostolick by practise , yet there is something ecclesiasticall , as praying of pastors , and an ecclesiasticall designation of men , or the committing of the gospell to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , tim. . . tim. . . no scripture can warrant that the king ordaine pastors by publick praving , by laying on of hands , or ecclesiasticall blessing , or by such an ordination , as is given to timothy , and the elders of the church , acts . . acts . . tit. . , . , . tim. . . tim. . . tim. . . if any say the king hath a publick and regall power in ordaining of ministers , and so in d●priving them , or a mixt power , partly regall , partly ecclesiasticall , as hee is a mixt person , and the church hath their way of purely and unmixt ecclesiasticall calling or ordaining of ministers , or the church and the magistrate both doth elect and choose the man , yet so that he is not elected without the consent of the king or magistrate in the kings roome . i answer , many things are here to be replyed . . that the king who may be borne an heire to an earthly kingdome , is also borne and by nature a mixt person , and halfe a minister of the gospell , is against gods word ; ministers in whole , or in part , are made so of god , not so borne by nature : in aaron● priestha●d men by birth came to a sacred office , but that is done away now in christ. . with as good reason may the king preach and administer the sacraments , as a mixt person , as he may ordaine , by ecclesiasticall blessing , imposition of hands , ecclesiasticall designation any person to the ministery , that same auth nity of christ which said to timoth , lay hands suddainly 〈◊〉 man , said also to him , tim. . . study to be approved unto 〈◊〉 , a workeman that needeth not to be ashamed , dividing the word right ; that is , both ordaining of ministers , and pastorall preaching of the word , or pastorall acts flowing from an ecclesiasticall power . how then can the one be given to the king by vertue of that same mixt power ? especially seeing baptizing it directly called c●r . . . a lesse principall worke of the ministery then preaching . it it be said , as ordination is performed by the king , is not an ecclesiasticall action , but civill , or mixt , partly civill , partly ecclesiasticall . i answer : by that reason , if the king should preach and administrate the sacraments , these actions should not be called ecclesiasticall actions , and uzzah's touching the arke , should not be called an action by office incumbent to the levites only ; and it might be said , the person being civill , the actions are civill . and uzziah's burning of incense upon the altar of incense , was not a priestly act , but an act of a mixt power , he was partly a king , and partly a priest , who did performe the action , but he was a priest by sinfull usurpation in that action , as we know . . this answer is a begging also of the question . . whereas it is said that the church ordainech pastors , and the king also , but divers wayes : the one by a regall power , the other by me el●siasticall power . i answer : this is spoken to make the people , ad saciendum populum , for ejusdem potestatis est , ( saith the law ) constituere & desti●●ere , it is the same power to ordaine and to destroy . the high-commission by the kings authority doth deprive ministers , without so much as the knowledge of the church . if then the king as king may deprive ministers without the notice of the church , then may the king as king also ordaine pastors without the notice of the church . for the action of the instruments as such , is more principally the actions of the principall cause . election of a pastor is farre different from ordination of a pastor : the whole multitude as christians have voyces in the election of a pastor , and so hath the king or his magistrate , as a part and member of the church , but this giveth no negative voice to the magistrate in election , but ordination is not done by all the multitude , it is a worke of authority done onely by the church-officers . . the coactive and civill degradation , must have also correspondent thereunto a coactive and civill ordination of pastors . now i ask what is a coactive ordination . if it be the kings royall and civill authority , commanding that the church officers ordaine pastors at christs commandement ; this we deny not , they fight with a shadow or a night ghost ; not against us , who contend for this . but if they meane a coactive degradation by the sword , in banishing , imprisoning , yea and for just causes , punishing ministers to death with the sword , this indirect deprivation we doe not deny . but so the king depriveth a man from being a minister , when he is beheaded , or hanged , or banished for civill crimes , no other wayes , but as he depriveth a man from being a fashioner , a sai●●r , a plower , a souldier , or a father to his owne barnes , a husband to his owne wife , for when the man is beheaded or hanged , by the sword of the magistrate , he is d●prived from being a fashioner , a sailer , a father , a husband : and solomen did not other way deprive abiathar from the priest-hood , then indirectly by consining him for treason at anathoth , so as he could not exercise the priests office at jerusalem . so after a junius , b calderwood , c gul. apollonius , d sibrandus , yea e muketus , a man for the times , denyeth that the prince can take away that ecclesiasticall power that the church hath given . and so f acknowledgeth wedelius the same . that reasonlesse lyer lysimach nicanor in this ▪ and in other things , hath no reason to say , we borrow jesuites doctrine to answer this argument , for g the jesuite becanus is not ●nacquainted with jesuits doctrine against the power of kings , yet he answereth that solomen as king had no power over abiathar for treason , or any other crime , and therefore following bellarmine and gretserus saith , that solomon did this by an extraordinary propheticall instinct , yet h abulensis a great textuall papist , and i b●naventura a learned schooleman saith this p●oveth that the king is above the priest , and that priests in the old testament were not eximed from the civill judges sword and power : this is very doubtsome to k suarez who ●aith , that it was a temp●rall civill punishment of exi●e , and that ●●●siti●n from the exercise of the priests office followed upon the other . but we neede not this answer , for solomons sentence containeth in t●rminis , a meere civill punishment ; and these words king. . s. solomon thrust out abiathar from being priest to the lord , seem not to be words of the kings sentence of banishment , but are relative to the fulfilling of the lords word , and a consequent of divine justice relative to the prophesie against elies house . though verily i see no inconvenience to say that solomon did indeed deprive him from the priest-hood by an extraordinary instinct of the spirit , as he was led of god to build the temple . . because the text saith , so solomon thrust out abiathar from being priest to the lord , and ver . . and zadok the priest did the king put in the roome of abiathar , which is a direct deprivation from the priest-hood : but i contend not here . but that the king causatively may deprive , that is , command the church to cast out hereticks , and to commit the gospell to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , tim. . . wee confesse : as for the power of convocating of synods , some thinke that the king may convocate synods as men , but as church men they have power , if the magistrate bee averse , to convocate themselves , see l junius who insinuateth this distin●tion . but certainly though the kingly dignity be thought meerely civill , yet let this be thought on ; it may be thought that the kings power is divine three wayes . . effectually , and so we thinke that the kingly power is an ordinance of god lawfull , jure divin● ; many papists say the contrary , but we thinke with gods word , it is of divine institution , as is cleare , psal. . . prov. . . . rom. . , , , , , . matth. . . p●t . . , . eccles. . . prov. . . prov. . . the kings power may be thought divine , formally , and so as divine is opposed to civill , it is a humane ordinance , and not formally divine or ecclesiasticall , nor subjectively . . it may be thought divine and ecclesiastick , objectively and finaliter . the end intrinsecall being a spirituall good , and so the king hath power to conveene synods not onely as they are men , and his subjects , but also as they bee such subjects and christian men , and members of synods ; as the king may command the minister of the gospell both as a man , yea and as a preacher in the pulpit , to preach ●ound doctrine and to give wholesome and good milke to the church , and this is formally an act of a nurie-father , such as the king is by his kingly office : and this way also doth the king send members to the synod , and moderate , and preside in synods , actu imp●rato ▪ n●n elicito : actu objective ecclesiastico ; non intrinsece , non formaliter , non subjective eccles●astico . the king ruleth by the sword , and commandeth the synods to meete , ordereth politically and civilly the members and meeting , and as king cooperateth , but by a civill and regall influence , with the synod , for the same very end that the synod intendeth , to wit , the establishing of truth , unity , and the edification of christs-body . but this power of the kings to conveene synods , is positive , not negative , auxiliary and by addition , not by way of impedition or privation . for the church of her selfe , hath from christ her head and lord , power of conveening without the king , beside his knowledge or against his will , if he be averse , as is cleare matth. . , . if they be conveened in his name he is with them ; not upon condition that the prince give them power . and joh. . . there is a church-meeting without the rulers , and a church-meeting for praying , preaching , and discipline , act. . , . &c. without the magistrate , & act. . , . and when the magistrate is an enemy to the church . . where christ commandeth his disciples to preach and baptize , matth. . , . and with all faith in the exercise of their ministry , they shall be persecuted by rulers , as matth. . , , . luk. . , , . he doth by necessary consequence command church-meetings , and synods , even when the magistrate forbiddeth , and this is practised , cor. . , , , , . where the magistrate is an heathen , chap. . , , . . it should follow that christ cannot have a true visible church , and ministry on earth , except the magistrate countenance his church , which is both against experience , and christs kingly power , who reigneth in the midst of his enemies , psal. . . and what glorious cour●bes had christ in asia , with power of doctrine and discipline , and ●o with all church-meetings , rev. . chap. . where tyrants did slay the witnesses of christ , rev. . . and certainely by what power kings allead●e that synods may not meet , for the exercise of discipline and good order in gods house , by that same power they may say there should be no church meeting for the hearing of the word and receiving the sacraments , without their authority . for church synods for doctrine differ not , in spece , and nature , from synods for discipline , all be one and the same acts under christ as king and head of his church , for which see m spalato , n u●●tius , o am●sius , p calderwood , q the professors ●● l●yden . now what any say on the contrary , for the power of princes in matters ecclesiasticall , is soone answered , r gerardus saith that moses gave lawes both to the people and priests , exod. . lev. . num. . i answer , if this be a good argument , the magistrate his alone without advise of the church may impose lawes , yea and institute new laws , and dite canonicall scripture also , as did moses , deut. . exod. . but it is certaine that moses gave these laws , not as a magistrate , but as a prophet of god , who spake with god face to face , and it is more for us , then for our adversaries . david also brought the ark to its place , at gods speciall direction , the levites carrying it by gods law , though they failed in that sinfull omission , sam. . but david did convocate the chosen of israel , even thirty thousand , to reduce the ark to its place , and so the levites and church-men , and did it not as king his alone , as chron. . hee did it . and s junius saith ( and the text is cleare ) that he did it by the counsell of an assembly and the whole church , and that a king may doe that in gods worship , in case of the negligence of the church , that is warranted by gods word , is but his duty . now jesuites answer not to any purpose in this , for t becanus , and u suarez answer nothing to davids placing of the arke in its place , onely they say all the people conveved the arke and danced before it , as well as david , but it is not hence proved , that all the people are heads of the church , as they say the king is : and lysimachus the jesuite seeth in this that wee a●●ee not with his friends the jesuits . solomon builded the temple , and dedicated it to gods service , but this is no ground to make the king a law-giver in the church . . because none can deny but solomon did all this , as a prophet , by speciall revelation : for . if solomon might not build an house to the lord , but by speciall revelation , that hee should bee the man , and not david his father , sam. . . . farre more could hee not as an ordinary king , build that typicall house , which had a resemblance of christ , and heaven it selfe , especially seeing the signification of the holy of holiest in the sanctuary is expressely given to the holy spirit , heb. . , . and the temple was a type of christ , joh. . , . and they may say kings by an ordinary power as kings might pen canonick scripture , as well as they could build a typicall temple like solomons . god filled that temple with his glory , and heard prayers made in that temple and toward that temple . i thinke kings as kings cannot now build such temples ; therefore solomon by a propheticall instinct built that house . jesuites give no answer to this , for u suarez saith kings may build churches to god ; because of it selfe it is an act of religion which requireth riches for the building thereof , and for the dedication it includeth two , . by some religious action to consecrate a house to god ; and this way onely the priests by sacrificing dedicated the temple , and god by filling of it with his presence , dedicated it to himselfe . . it includeth an offering and giving of an house to gods service . i answer : by this solomon as a private man builded the temple , and dedicated it to god , and not as either king or prophet ; but this is a vaine answer , for no private man could have builded an house to god , with such typicall relations to christ , and to the church of the new testament , except hee had been immediatly inspired by the holy ghost . x becanus saith three sorts of men were actors here , . solomon , . the priests , . the people : solomon prayed and gave thankes , the priest● ●arried the arke , the tabernacle , the holy vessels , and sacriji ●s , the 〈…〉 present , rejoyced and gave thank●s to god : there is nothing 〈…〉 solomons headship ; solomon dedicated a temple to god , what , it will no more follow , hee was the head of the church for that , 〈…〉 ●ffered stones and timber to god , then the wom●n can ●ee 〈◊〉 of the church , who offered to god g●●d , purple , 〈…〉 budd●● temple to god , many mer●han●s ●ubild temple● upon their 〈…〉 god , and pray to god to accept these temples ; 〈◊〉 in england 〈◊〉 temples to god , they are not for that head of the church . answ. . this is another temple then temples builded daily ; . because it was wil-worship for david to build this temple , and service to god for solomon a king of peace , and a type of our king of wisedome christ , to build this temple and for no other ; any merchant may build a common house to gods service , without a speciall word of promise , which word solomon behoved to have , or then hee could not build this house . . to dedicate an house to god typicall of christ ; . filled with the cloud of gods presence , where god said , hee would dwel in this house ; . with such ornaments as the holy of holiest in it ; . in which god said he would heare prayers ; whereas now in all places hee heareth prayers , joh. . . timoth● . . this is another positive worship then that a merchant build a house for gods daily service , which hath no relative holinesse in it , but onely is holy in the use , and to dedicate a house in these termes is more then an ordinary dedication to gods service , and their prelates in england , who dedicated temples to god , cannot answer this reply of the jesuites , nor can the new jesuite lysimachus nican●r their brother answer the jesuite herein ; wee say from warrant of gods word , that solomon did all this , by a propheticall instinct , by the which also hee prophecied , and did write the booke of the pro●●rbs , ecclesiastes , and solomons song ; else jesuites may say that these bookes doe no more prove solomon to bee a prophet , then the tomes written by becanus and suarez , doth prove that they were divinely inspired prophets . obj. david also prepared materialls for the temple , chron. . . and dicided the levites in certaine rankes and orders , chron. . . answ. chron. . . for so had david the man of god commanded , the man of god is the prophet of god , not the king of israel as king , chron. . . and hee set the levites in the house of god with cymba's and psalteries and ●arpes according to the commandement of david , and of gad the kings seer , and n●uh●n the prophet , for so was the commandement of the lord by his prophets ; they may prove then god the prophet is the head of the church , and hath power to make church-lawes . but it is a great mistake . h●●●●iah , david , solomon , commanded the people and the ●evites to doe their duties according to gods word . ergo , kings may make church-constitutions by a mixt power , it followeth in no so●● ; wee deny not but the king may command in gods worship , what is already of cleare and evident divine institution , but that hee may obtrude it , as a thing to bee observed , by all church men , and urge it , as a constitution come from authoritie , to b●e observed under the paine of ecclesiasticall censures , wee deny : now this formalists teach , that hee may command in the externall government , as a church constitution to bee in his royall name executed , by church men with church censures , though the church never heard of it before . it is true that jehoshaph ●t , chron. , , , . set of the levites and priests , and the chiefe of the fathers of israel , for the judgement of the lord , and for controversies — and charged them , to doe in the feare of the lord , v. . and behold amariah the chie●e priest ( saith hee ) is over you in all the matters of the lord ▪ and zebadiah the sonne of ismael , the ruler of the house of judah , for all the kings matters ; also the levites shall bee officers before you ; deale c●●ra●iously , and the lord shall bee with the good . hence doth t●oker and other court parasites inferre , . that the king constituting levites , and priests in a citie , must bee head of the church , and . that jehoshaph at having constitute two vicars and d●puties under him , one in church matters , to wit , amariah , another in civill matters , to wit , zebadiah , therefore hath the king a jurisdiction and headship in both church and state. answer . the institution of priests is one thing , and the calling of the persons to the office another ▪ the former was gods due , who himselfe chused the tribe of levi , and this the king did not . but it is another thing to constitute priests and levites , who were instituted and called of god , to serve in such a place at jerusalem , rather then in any other place ; this is but to apply a person , who is jure divine , by gods right in office , to such places and times . this is not a point of ecclesiastical jurisdiction , for placing and timing preachers belongeth to the people calling them , and in the time of apostasy , as this was , jehoshaphat sent levites to teach , and commanded them to do their duty ; but that the high priest is the kings deputy or vicar , as if the king offered sacrifices to god , as the principall and church head , or by the ministry and service of amariah , as his instrument , deputy and servant , is most idly , and untruely spoken . yet will i not use the argument of be●anus the jesuite , who saith , if amariah was the kings vicar , then may the king by himselfe sacrifice , for what ever the vicar o● deputy may d●e , that may the person above him , who giveth him power , d●e without the vicar . the kings royall commandement is formally terminated upon the quality and manner of ecclesiasticall acts , that they bee done according to gods law , rather then upon the acts according to their substance . it * is one thing for ministers to preach sound doctrine , and administrate the sacraments in obedience , and at the kings commandement , which wee acknowledge a truth , and another thing for ministers to preach in the name and authority of royall majesty , as having a calling from him : this latter is false : as the king may do an act of justice , at the direction of a minister , commanding him in gods name to execute judgement impartially : yet the king doth not an act of justice in the name and authority of the church . and that is true which be●anus saith , what the instrument doth , the principall cause may do , where the vicar or deputy , and the principall substitut●r of the vicar are both civill persons , or are both ecclesiasticall persons , for in a large and unproper sense , the nurse is a sort of deputy under the nurse father , the father may take care that the nurse give milke , and wholsom milke to his child , yet cannot the father give milke himself . the king may take care , actu imperato , as one intending , in a kingly way , that christs body bee edifyed , that the priests and prophets feed with knowledge , the church and sister of christ , and so are the priests under the king , and at his command to feed , and to feed with wholsome food the flocke , and in obedience to the king all are to do their duty , and his care is universall over all , and his end universall . that which is the end of pastors , doctors , elders , deacons , lawyers , judges , &c. is , in an universall intention , the kings end , even gods honor , by p●●curing in a regall way , that all do their duty in keeping the two tables of the law , and so is hee the great politick wheel moving by his royall motions , all the under wheeles toward that same end : yet cannot the king without sinne , and being like a bird wandring from her nest , do that which is properly pastorall , so that the office is not subordinate to him , but immediately from god , yet are the operations of the office , and to preach tali modo , diligently sound doctrine subordinate to him , but in a generall and universall way , as hee is a kingly mover of all , to keep the two tables of the law. neither did the king ( as a suarez saith ) one and the same way appoint both the high priest and the civill judge . and b cajetan saith , he decerneth the two chiefe heads of church and common-wealth , but hee appointed not both , for god appointed amariah , to bee high priest , and not the king , but here is nothing to prove the kings headship . asa reformed the church and renewed the covenant ; ezekia● reformed religion also , and brake in peeces the brazen serpent , and all these in the case of universall apostasie , and the corruption of the priest-hood did reforme the lords house , breake in peeces graven images , but all this giveth to them no mixt ecclesiasticall power of making canons , of ordaining and depriving pastors . whereas some object , that the care both of temporall good , and spirituall good , belongeth to the magistrate , therefore , hee must have a power to make church laws . see c pareus . for his care cannot bee supreme , if hee must rule at the nod and beck of church-men . i answer , the connexion is weak : hee who hath the care of both the temporall and spirituall good of the people , hee hath a nomothetick power to procure both these two goods , it followeth no way , for then might hee have a power in his own person to preach , and administrate the sacraments , this power procureth the spirituall good , but such as is the care , such is the power , the care is politick and civill , ergo , the power to procure the spirituall good , must bee politick and civill . . neither is the king to do all at the nod and direction of the priesthood , blindly and without examination . that is the blind doctrine of papists , wee hold that hee hath a regall power to examine , if the decrees of the church bee just , orthodox , and tend to edification , for hee is the minister of god , for good , and to take vengeance on evill doing . and there is no just obligation to sinne , hee is not obliged to punish with the sword , well-doing , but evill doing , and the church can oblige the magistrate to do nothing , but that which in case there were no church law , and in case of the churches erring , hee should doe . . they object , he to whom every soule is subject , he hath a power to make church laws , about all good : but all and every soule , without exception of apostles , or church-men , is subject to the civill magistrate . ergo. the proposition is proved from the law of relatives , for he to 〈◊〉 we are subject , he may give lawes unto us , for our g●●d . see d pareus . answ. he to whom we are subject , may give any lawes , or command any manner of way , for our good . i deny the proposition in that sense ; for then he might in the pulpit preach the commandements of god , for our good . he might give laws under the paine of excommunication . it is enough that he may give laws by sanction and civill enacting of church laws , and pressing us by the power of the sword , to doe our duty , for the attaining of a spirituall good . he to whom we are subject , he may give laws , that is presse , in a coactive way , obedience to laws , that is most true , but it proveth not a nomothetick power in the king. . they object , what ever agreeth to the kingly power concerning the good of subjects , by the law of nations , that doth farre more agreeth kings by the law of god. for the law of god doth not desir 〈…〉 ●e law of nations . but by the law of nations , a care 〈◊〉 religion belong th to the king , for religion by the law of nature is ind●●ed and brought in by the law of nations . as e cicero saith . and therefore to a christian kingly power , the care of religion must be due . answer : we grant all , for a care in a civill and politick way belongeth to the christian prince , but a care by any meane whatsoever , by preaching , or by making church canons , is not hence proved by no light of nature , or law of nations , in an ecclesiasticall care of religion due to the christian prince , but onely in a politick and civill way . . all beleevers , even private men , may judge of religion , not onely by a judgement of apprehension , but also of discretion , to try what religion is true , and to be holden , and what is false , and to be rejected . ergo , farre more may the christian magistrate definitively judge of religion , so he doe it by convenient meanes , such as are sound and holy divines , and the rule of gods word . the consequence is proved , because the faithfull prince hath supreame power , which is n●mothetick , and a power to make lawes . answer : it is true , all private beleevers may try the spirits , whether they be of god or not : but hence we may as well conclude , therefore princes may preach and administer the sacraments , as therefore the prince may define matters ecclesiasticall . for a eivill coactive power giveth to no man an ecclesiasticall power , except he be called thereunto , as aaron was . . the meanes alleadged are the judgement of holy and pious divines , and the word of god , but moses whom they alleadge for a patterne of a civill ruler , who had a nomothetick power in church matters , used not the advise of divines , nor the rule of the written word , but as a prophet immediately inspired of god , gave lawes to gods people , and prescribed a law to aaren , and to the priest-hood . now if rulers have such a power of defining lawes , they neede not follow the rule of gods word . but how shall they prove that moses gave the law to the people and the priesthood , as a king , and not as the prophet of god , inspired immediately of god ? for if moses his law came from the ordinary power of kings , as it is such , then commeth moses law from a spirit which may erre , for the ordinary spirit to kings , is not infallible , but with reverence to kings , obnoxious to erring . god save our king. . it is a princes part by office to defend religion , and to banish false religion , and to roote out blasphemies and heresies . ergo , he ought to know and judge by his office of all these . but if he be to use the sword at the nodde onely of the church , without knowledge or judgement , he is the executioner and lictor of the church , not a civill judge . answ. in a church right constitute , we are to suppone , that the lawes of synods are necessary and edificative , and that the magistrate is obliged by his office to adde his sanction to them not by an unfolded faith , and as blind ; but he is to try them , not onely by the judgement of discretion , as a christian , ( for so all christians are to try them ) but also ( saving the judgement of some learned ) by a judiciall cognition , as he tryeth civill crimes , which he is to punish : but his judiciall cognition is onely in relation to his practise , as a judge , to authorize these lawes , with his coactive power , not to determine truth in an ecclesiasticall way , under the paine of church censures . neither doe i beleeve , that the magistrate is not subordinate to the kingdome of christ , as mediator , but subordinate to god as creator onely . though some divines teach , that there should have beene kings and supreme powers in the world , though man had never fallen in sinne , and a saviour had never beene in the world , and so that kings are warranted by the law of nature , and nations , and not by any law evangelick and mediatory : yet we thinke with reverence , this argument not strong , for generation and creation and multiplication of mankind should have beene in the world , though never a sinner nor a saviour thould have beene in the world , yet are creation , generation and multiplication of mankind , by our divines , junius , trekatius , gomaras , calvin , beza , melancthon , polanus , rollocus , and many others , and with warrant of the word of god , made meanes subordinate to the execution of the decree of prede●tination to glory , which decree is executed in christ , as the meane and meritorious cause of salvation purchased in his blood . what heathen magistrates as magistrates know not christ the mediator ; ergo , they are not means subordinate to christs mediatory kingdome . it followeth not . for by christ the wisedome of god , kings doe reigne , though many of them know him not . as they are created by christ , as the second person of the trinity , though they know not the second person of the trinity . it is their sinne that they know him not . . it is objected . the magistrate is not given to the church under the new testament , by the calling of christ , as an exalted saviour , as all the gifts instituted for the government of the mediatory kingdome are instituted for that end , ephes. . . but it is instituted by god , as governer of the world , rewarding good and ill , rom. . . . answ. neither is creation a gift of christ as exalted mediator , therefore it is not a meane leading to the possession of that life purchased by the mediators bloud , it followeth not . for the magistracy is a nurse-father of the redeemed spouse of christ with the sincere milke of the word . i meane a formall meane procuring , by a coactive power , that the church shall be fed , and it procureth not onely the churches peace , which respecteth the second table of the law , but also godlinesse , which respecteth the first table of the law , tim. . . and ephes. . . there be reckoned downe onely officers , which actibus elicitis , by formall elicit acts , procureth the intended end of christs mediatory kingdome . not all the offices which procureth edification any way . such as is in civill governours , who are to see that the body of christ be nourished , and grow in godlinesse , for that is an essentiall and specifick act of the churches nurs-father . . it is objected . magistracy compelleth men to the observance of gods law , deut. . and doth not immediately , of it selfe , by spirituall gifts of the evangell , produ●e its effects . but all the mediatory kingdome of christ and the government thereof , of its selfe and its owne nature , produceth the saving effects of the evangel● , by vertue of its institution , as faith , repentance , and salvation . answ. a magistracy as a magistracy , of it selfe concurreth , but in a coactive way , for producing of peace , honesty , and godlinesse , and serveth to edification : but i grant , not in such a spirituall way , as a church-ministry , therefore it is not a meane subservient to the end of christs mediatory kingdome . it followeth not . it is not a spirituall meane . ergo , it is not a meane . the consequence is null , and it is false , that all the meanes of christs mediatory kingdome are of their owne nature spirituall , for that is to begge the question , for the magistrate procureth that the church be fed , he punisheth blasphemers , that others may feare , and so abstaine , and so be edified , though the way be coactive , yet is it a way and meane appointed of god , as the nurse-father is a meane for the childs nourishing , though the nurse-breasts be a more subordinate meane , immediate meane . . it is objected . the magistrate is not the lords ambassadour and minister in name of the mediator christ , as the minister is , but it is extron ●call to the government of christs mediatory kingdome , and 〈◊〉 helpe onely to those things , which concerne the externall man. answ. hee who is called god , and so is the vicegerent of god , is gods ambassador politick commanding in gods name , but in another way then a preaching ambassador commandeth : and though christ as mediator , may attaine to his end without the king , as many were edified in the apostolick church where the civill magistrate contributed no helpe , and was rather an enemy to the kingdome of christ , and so magistracy may bee called accidentall to christs mediatory government : but if this bee a good argument to prove that magistracie is not subordinate to christs mediatory kingdome , then oecumenicall and provinciall synods consisting onely of church men shall be no meanes subordinate to christs kingdome , because christs kingdome may subsist in one congregation , without a provinciall assembly , and circumcision is no meane subordinate to that kingdome in the jewish church , because that mediatory kingdome substisted fortie yeeres in the jewish church in the wildernesse without circumcision ; yea and apostles and evangelists are no meanes subordinate to that kingdome , because christs mediatory kingdome subsisteth now without these officers . . neither is it true that magistracie conferreth no helpe to this kingdom , but in these things which concerne the externall man , for in a politick and coactive way , the magistracy taketh care by commandements , that the church bee fed with the pure word of god ; onely this proveth that magistracie , and church ministery have two different objects , and the way of proceeding of these two states , the one carnall and with the sword , joh. . . rom. . , . the other spirituall , to the manifestarion of the truth to the conscience , cor. . , . psal. . . . es●y . . heb. . . which we grant to be true . . it is objected , christ himselfe performed all the parts of his mediatory kingdome , and all the functions thereof , in his owne person , and by his disciples , while hee was on earth ; but hee refused all civill magistracy , and did inhibit his disciples thereof , because it is not contained under the administration of his mediatory office , as subordinate thereunto . answ. christ refused magistracie , not because it is not subordinate to edification , which is the end of christs mediatory kingdome , but because it is not compatible with his spirituall kingdome , in one and the same person , and therefore this is a caption , à non causa pro causa , in one and the same person and subject ; the civill and the ecclesiasticall power are inconsistent and incompatible , that is true . ergo , in the kind of lawfull meanes these two powers are unconsistent and uncompatible . i deny it to follow , for both royall power and church power concurre for the producing of one and the same end , to wit , edification and obedience to both tables of the law , but after different wayes , carnall and spirituall . * i thinke it most considerable that though the prince may by a coactive way , command that same which a church synod may command in an ecclesiasticall way , yet differeth these same powers in their formall objects , because the king commandeth that which is good , religious , decent in gods worship as a thing already taught and determined judicially , either expressely in gods word , or then by a pastorall or synodicall determination , and that not by way of teaching , informing the mind , exponing the scripture , or by pastorall dealing with the conscience , as oblieging to a church liturgie , and ceremonies , as one who intendeth formall edification and faith , repentance , and obedience to god ; but the king commands that which is good and extra , as it is already taught , and expounded , and as it is an imperated act of externall worship , or mercy and justice done by a coactive power . hence the magistrates power is not to edifie formally , but to procure that edification may bee . . the magistrates power is lordly , the churches power is onely ministeriall . . the magistrates power may bee in one , to wit , in the king , the churches power of the keyes is in the church . . they differ in formall objects , as hath been said . now to obviate what the jesuite lysimachus nicanor saith , wee are no wayes of papists mind in the matter of the magistrates power , for papists , . exclude kings and emperours from any medling with church matters . charles the fift was upbraided by paul the third , the pope of rome , because hee did , as became a prince , ordaine meetings , conferences , and assemblies for composing of differences in churches matters , not giving the power of conveening councells , onely to the pope , a comparing his fact to the attempt of uzzah , who put his hand to the ark , and to c●rah , dathan and abirams conspiracie against moses ; yea and b nicolaus the first in his epistle to michael the emperour , denyeth that emperours are to bee present in synods , except in generall synods , where both church men and laicks are present : wee teach that the magistrate is as the hand , the ministry as the eyes , and both are to concurre for the spirituall good of the body of christ. . papists will have the magistrates so to defend the faith , as they have not power to judge , not as christians with the judgement of descretion what is right , or wrong , but they must , as blind servants , execute what prelates decree , yea and see ( non pr●priis ( saith c henr. blyssemius ) sed alienis episcoporum ac p●aelatorum suorum oculis videre ) not with their owne eyes , but with the eyes of their prelates , yea and the magistrate should not read the scripture , ( say papists and nican●rs brethren the jesuits ) expresly contrary to gods word , deut. . . hee shall read in the booke of the law , all the dayes of his life , joshua . . but onely beleeve as the church beleeveth , and this is blind obedience that they require of princes ; this faith or obedience wee thinke abominable in all men , as in princes . of old , popes and prelates were subject to kings and emperors , as wee teach from the word of god , rom. . . and . wee teach against the jesuit lysimachus nicanor , that his prelates should not invade the king and civill magistrates sword , and be civill judges , as popes and prelates are ; against which writeth a tertullian , b origen , c hilarius d chrysostome , e ambrosius , f augustinus ; the g author of the survey saith , that if every eldership be the tribunall seat of christ , what appellation can bee made there from to either provinciall or generall councell ? and hee meaneth , that there can bee no appellation to the king , seeing the presbytery in churches causes is as immediatly subject to jesus christ , and the highest judicature on earth , as the king is gods immediate vicegerent on earth , nearest to jesus christ , in civill causes . i answer : the cause that is meerely ecclesiasticall , as the formall act of preaching and ecclesiasticall determining of truth in pulpits , and the determining the truth in church assemblies , in an ecclesiasticall way in synods , and the excommunicating of a scandalous person , are immediatly subject to jesus christ , speaking in his owne perfect testament : and these causes lie not at the feet of princes to bee determined by them , as kings , but in a constitute church they are to bee determined by the ordinary church assemblies , and in this place there is no appeale from the presbytery to a king ; but it followeth not , that there can bee no appellation from a presbytery to a provinciall , or to a nationall assembly ; . because though every presbytery bee the tribunall seate of christ , yet it is but a part of the tribunall seat of christ , and such a part as may easily erre , and therefore appellation may bee made from the weaker , and the part more inclined to erre , to the stronger and maniest , or the whole , who may more hardlier erre : and that is not denied by this author , who dare not deny , but they may appeal from a bishop who doth , and may misleade soules , and emptie purses , to a metropolitan , and an archbishop , who is as dexterous and happy in emptying of poore mens purses , and destroying soules , if not large better , as a pettie lord prelate , from whom hee appealed ; yet is the one lord prelate the vicar of christ , as well as the other , by formalists bookes . and , . if the cause bee proper to the presbytery , they have just right to judge it , as well as the provinciall assembly hath , but possibly not such knowledge , and if the partie complaine that hee is wronged , or may bee wronged , hee may well appeale to a larger part of christs tribunall , lesse obnoxious to erring , which is no wrong done to the presbyterie . this man laboureth to make a division amongst our divines , because we know not whether to make our pastors , doctors , and elders immediat 〈…〉 to christ , as priests , because then they are priests of the new testament , or ●ubject to christ , as king , and then all our officers shall 〈◊〉 kings , under christ , and the christian m●gistrate shall be so thrust out of his kingdome and chaire . and the ignorant railer maketh much adoe in this matter , but the truth is stronger then this popish scribler ; for . as christ is a priest having a body to offer for the sinnes of the people , and a reall sacrifice , our divines deny that christ hath any substitute and demie priests under him , or master priests to offer sacrifices reall to god : if this author put any priests under christ in this meaning , hee is upon an unbloody masse-sacrifice , much good doe it him ; if h fenner make this propheticall office of christ a part of christs priesthood , because the priest was to teach the people , matth. . . hos. . . and i abraham henrick say the same , there is no absurd to make the officers of the new testament subordinate to christ , as to our high priest teaching us gods will , not to christ as our high priest offering a bloody or a reall sacrifice to god , & this author maketh much ado to cite k cartwright , l fenner , m bez●● , n and sonnius , men whose bookes hee is not worthy to beare , making the officers of christs kingdome subordinate to christ as king , for as much as christ as king prescribed the forme of ecclesiasticall government , and then saith the poore man o the pastors under christ ●● king must bee all emperors , the doctors kings , the elders dukes , the deacons lords of the treasury , &c. and if they bee christs immediat vicegerents , within their owne kingdomes , who shall controll any of them , on whithot shall an injured man appe●le ? answ. . wee are to blesse god that these officers , pastors , doctors , elders & deacons are expresly in the word of god , and that this railers officers , to wit , bishops , archbishops , metropolitans , primats , deanes , archdeanes , officials , &c. are in no place of christs testament , onely they are in the popes masse book : now if the man offend , because they are subordinate to christ as king , hee must make his primates , his metropolitans , his diocesan lords , his deans , officials , and such wild officers , emperours , kings , dukes and lord treasurers under christ , for some roome these creatures must have , else they must bee put out at the church doors , and if a man bee injured by the primate , to whom shall hee appeale , but to some above him , a cardinall ? and if that creature be a christ , who cannot do wrong , well and good it is , wee rest , but if hee bee a man like the rest of the world , surely poor folk must appeale to his high holines the pope . . deacons are not men of ecclesiastick authoritie in our account , but are to serve tables , acts . . nor are our officers little kings under christ , ( for the man cannot hold of the sent of a lord bishop ) but meere ministers and servants , and the ambassadors of the king of kings , who have no power to make lawes , as if they were little kings , but are to propound christs lawes ; hee is ignorant of christs kingdome , for the officers of the new testament are under christ as their king ; ergo , they are under him as little deputie kings to make lawes , as judges earthly are under those whose kingdome is of this world , joh. . . the man is both beside his booke , and his wit , to infer this ; christ hath no popes nor visible substitute kings under him , but under him are meere servants and heralds . . wee are farre from holding , that one church man such as the pope may excommunicate kings ; gregorius the second excommunicated the emperour leo , and gregorius the seventh , alias wicked hildebrand , excommunicated henry the fourth ; christ hath committed the power of excommunication to the whole church , cor. . . matth. . , . and therefore lysimachus nicanor cannot but side with papists in laying this power upon one prelate , as the kings substitute , or rather the popes vicar . . wee doe not teach that the pope or any church man may dethrone kings , and alienate their crownes to others . gregory the first in a certaine decree saith , kings and judges , who contr●veneth the constitution of the sea of rome , are to bee deprived of her honour ; gregory the second having excommunicated the emperour leo , discharged the italians to pay him tribute , and that because leo was against the worshipping of images ; see p haiminsfieldius , and q arniseus , and r baleus saith the pope drew the subjects of this leo isaurus , in apertam rebellionem , to 〈◊〉 rebellion , and so the emperors of the east were deprived of the kingdome of italy , per sanctissimum diabolum , by a most holy devill : pope zachariah , ( not the prophet ) deprived childericus king of france of his kingdome , and procured that pipinus the father of charles the great , should bee created king , so saith s baleus also . let the third transferred the empire from the grecians to the romans , and by the hand of pope leo ( saith sigebertus ) charles was crowned ; see for this t shardius . gregorius the fift being the brother germane of otbo the emperour , made a law that the emperour should bee chosen by seven princes electors , which fact weakned the majestie of the empire , which went before by inheritance , hence an. . charles the fourth , that his sonne might succeed him in the empire , laid in pledge the free cities of the empire , in the hands of the prince electors , which to this day are not redeemed . so did the pope shake the empire , at his owne will. gregory the third began , and leo the third finished the devise of erecting a new empire in the west , and weakned the power of the emperour of constantinople . gregorius the seventh , alias gracelesse hildebrand , deprived henry the fourth , and created another in his place , as u sleidan and x lampadius relateth . innocentius the third dethroned otho the fourth : and innocentius the fourth dethroned frederick the second , and the like did clemens the sixth to lodovick the fourth , by bellarmines owne confession . no emperours can bee created but by their consent , saith the y author of that learned worke , catalog . testium veritatis . they loose the subjects from the oath of fidelitie . lodovick the fourth answering the calumnies of john the . z saith it is against all law that the emperour hath no imperiall authoritie and power , except hee bee anointed , con●e●rated and crowned by the pope ; he citeth their owne a law on the contrary . that joannes the . ( saith the emperour ) insinuateth in his bull , that hee is universall lord in both temporall and spirituall matters . bonifacius the eighth setteth out a bull against philip the faire , philippus pulcher king of france ( as saith b stephanus aufrerii ) and speaketh thus , that he is universall lord of the earth in both temparall and spirituall thing● bonifacius episcopus servus ser●orum dei , philippo fr●n 〈◊〉 regi , deum time & mandata ejus serva , seire te volumus quod in spritualibus & temporalibus nobis su●es , benificiarum & pre●end●●● ad te c●●●io nuda spectet , &c. beleeve if ye will , that constan●●●● gave to the popes of rome freedome and immunity from the imperiall laws , and that he gave to the pope the territories of rome , and the city of rome the seat of the empire to be peter the fishers patrimony , and this ( say they ) constantine gave to silvester , which is the patrimony of the crowne , and the very empire it selfe given to peter , we teach no such kingly power given to church-men , and judge this donation to be a forged lye , invented by papists , because they are their owne witnesses of this donation . for c hieronymus pa●●●us cath●lanus , a lawyer , and chamberlaine to pope alexand●r the sixth , saith exprelly there was no such donation made by constantine . and because those who are most diligent observers of memorable antiquities speake nothing of this donation , as neither eusebius , nor hieronymus , nor augustine , nor a●brase , nor basilius , nor chrysostome , nor ammianus , nor histeri● t●ip ●●tita , nor pope damasus in his chronicle , nor beda , nor oros●us , it is but a dreame , yet it is certaine that three hundreth veares after constantine the emperours keeped rome , and the townes of italy , by their presidents and deputies , as may be seene in d justini●n . and this they did to the time of inn●●●ntius the second , as chronicles doe beare . . wee doe not teach that church-men are loosed from the positive lawes of emperours and kings . bellarmine e saith that the magistrate can neither punish church-men , nor conveene them before the tribunall● so innocentius the third , saith f the empire is not above the pope , but the pope is above the empire . and bonifacin● the eighth g saith , all upon hazard of their salvation , are subject to the pope of rome , who hath the power of both swords , and judgeth all and is judged by no man. now it is knowne to 〈◊〉 nicanor , that the prelats of england and scotland in their high commission , had the power of both swords , and that by episcopall lawes , the primate 〈◊〉 all the 〈◊〉 , and is judged by none , and who but he ? and who ever spake as h suarez ? that church-m●n 〈…〉 co 〈…〉 against princes , even to detbrane them . and as he saith , 〈…〉 , by divine law the pope is eximed from a● laws of princes : and shall we in this beleeve i bellarmin● , k sato , l ●●●etanus , m turrecremata , n gr●g●rius de valent. o sua●●●● and then forsooth they bring us their p canon law to judg the law of god , & to prove it , because it is said by their silvester , nemo judicabit primam ●dem , and their q gratian learned this jus divinum , this divine law from innocentius the pope . and what they alledge for peters exemption from paying tribute , will exime all the disciples , and so all church-men by divine right from the lawes of princes . yea all clergy-men ( say they ) by a divine positive law are eximed from the laws of magistrates . so saith r suarez , s bellarmine , and t the 〈◊〉 of rbeimes , but with neither conscience , nor reason . and contrary to their owne practise and doctrine . for paul will have every soule subject to superiour powers , and except the roman clergy want soules , they must also be subject . salomon punished abiathar , josiah burnt the bones of the priests upon the a●tar , christ subjected himselfe to his parents , payed tribute to caes●r , and commanded scribes and pharisces to doe the like , matth. . willing that they should give to cesar those things which are caesars . paul appealed to caesars tribunall , and rom. . as many , as may doe evill , as many , as are in danger of resisting the power , are to be subject . rom. . . . but church-men are such , therefore they are subject . agatho bishop of rome writing to constantius the emperour , calleth himselfe imperii famulum , a subject of the empire , and saith , pro obedientia quam debuimus . leo submitted himselfe to lodovick the emperour . w the clergy of constantinople may be conveened before the patriarch or president of the city . see the x law. and y and z bishops , clerks , monkes , &c. for criminall causes are judged by the presidents : if a man have a suit with a clerk , for a money matter , if the bishop resuse to heare , tunc ad civilem judicem , &c. a say they . sigebertus , as also b luitprandus doth witnesse that the bishops of rome were compelled to pay a certaine summe of money to the emperors , to be confirmed in their bishopricke , ev●n till the yeare . leo the fourth , who is canonized by papists as a saint , c writeth to lotharius the emperour , that they will keepe the emperors lawes for ever , and that they are lyars who say the contrary . arcadius made a law , that if a priest were found to be seditious and troubling the publick peace , he should be banished an hundred miles from that place . but how farre popes have surpassed bounds in these ; see their blasphemies . as they say d god should not have beene discreet , nisi potestatem pontifici super principes contulisset , except he had given power to the pope above princes . also e papam superioritatem habere in imperatorem , & vacante imperatore , imperatori succedere . also f papa habet utriusque potestatis , temporalis nempe & spiritualis , monarchiam . also g quanto sol lunam , tanto papa superat imperatorem . the pope is above the emperor and succeedeth to the emperors throne , when it is vacant , and he is as farre above the emperor , as the sunne is above the moone . the pope also ( h ) in the nativity night , blesseth a sword , and giveth it to some prince , in signe , that to the pope is given all power in heaven and in earth . . the pope may loose all subjects from their oath of loyalty and may command that a jesuite stabbe or poyson a king , when he turneth enemy to the roman faith. all these satan and envy it selfe cannot impute to our doctrine . let l●simachus the jesuite heare this , and see if his owne little popes , the prclats , doe not teach or aime at all these points against the kings of the earth . chap. . sect . . of the way of reformation of the congregations of england . in the first article , the author acknowledgeth the church of england was once rightly , and orderly gathered , either by apostles ●● apostolick men , whether philip , or joseph of arimathea , or simon zelotes , as we may read in fox , &c. sothat all the worke now , is not to make them churches which were none before , but to reduce and restore them to their primitive institution . answ. though the churches of england were planted by the apostles , yet since popery universally afterward prevailed , in both england and scotland , as beda and nicephorus and ancient histories witnesse , we thinke by our brethrens grounds england losed the very essence of a true church . so that there be neede of the constituting of a new church , and not of simple restitution to the first restitution . . because the congregations wanteth the essentiall constitution of right visible churches , as you say . . because you receive none comming from the church of new-england , to the seales of the covenant , because they are members of no visible church . sect. . certaine propositions tending to reformation . in the third or fourth proposition the author condemneth laicks patronages . . dedicating of lands to the ministry ; to these adde what the ministers of new-england say a in their answer to the thirty two questions sent to them from old-england , where they condemne stinted maintenance . though the right of church patronages were derived from romulus , it is not for that of noble blood . ●or b dionysius halicarnasseus saith romulus instituted patronages , when he had divided the people in noble and ignoble , called , patricii & plebeii . but this patronage was civill , and when servants and underlings were hardly used , it hath a ground in nature , that they choose patrons to defend them , therefore hee who gave libertie to a a servant , amongst the romans was called a patron , and c he who defended the cause of the accused , as valla saith , was called a patron . if it bee said that the servant was the proper goods , and part of the masters patrimony , because hee might sell his servant , and therefore there could bee no law given to prove men may limit the dominion of the master over the servant . i answer ; the servant was a part of his masters patrimony , but a part thereof for sinne , not as his oxe or his asse , is a part of his patrimony ; therefore by the law of nature , whereby the weaker imploreth helpe of the stronger , as the lambe seeketh helpe from the mother , and the young eagle from the old , the slave might well have libertie to choose a patron , and this is a ground that the magistrate the churches nurs-father by office should plead the churches cause , as her patron , and every one in power is to defend the church in her liberties and patrimony ; and therefore in the apostles time , when holinesse and the power of religion did flourish , and was in court , there was not need of any positive , civill or church law , for a patron to the church , every beleever in power is oblieged to defend the church : but when men became vulturs and ravenous birds to plucke from the church what was given them , the councell of millian d in the yeare of god . wherein some say augustine was president , under honorius and arcadius , some holy and powerfull men were sought from the emperour to defend the church in her patrimony , and rights against the power and craft of avaritious men , and they were called patrons , and the same was desired e in the first councell of carthage , but with the bishops advice , cum provisione episcoporum . hence it is cleare , patronages from their originall were not church priviledges , and bishops being a part of the church , could not be the patrons , quia nemo sibi ipsi potest esse patronus , and for this cause that learned f thinketh this was the originall of church patronages , but the patrons have beene chosen with consent of the church ; hence they were not as our patronages are now , which goeth . by birth , . and are a part of a mans patrimony , and civill thing , that the patron hath right unto , under the kings great seale ; but as a minister is not a minister by birth , neither was a patron a patron by birth : and from this wee may collect , that the patrons right was but a branch of the magistrates right , and accumulative , not primitive , and that hee could take nothing from the church , and 〈◊〉 lesse might the patron forestall the free election of the people , by tying them and their free suff●ages to a determinate man , whom hee presented ; and it is not unlike which g a●entinus 〈◊〉 , when bishops gave themselves onely to the word of god , to preaching and writing bookes in defence of the truth , the emperour tooke care that they should bee furnished with food and ●aiment , and therefore gave them a p●tronus quem 〈◊〉 patronum curatoremque vocabant , whom they called a patron ; and here observe the bishop of old was the client , and the sonne and pupill , now hee must bee the patron and tutor , and therefore in time of popery , antichristian prelates would bee patrons both to themselves and to the churches . but this seemeth not to bee the originall of patronages , because this ground is common to all churches , but not all , but onely some certaine churches have patronages , therefore their ground seemeth rather to bee that some religious and pious persons founded churches , and dotted , and mortified to them benefices , and the church by the law of gratitude did give a pat●onage over these founded churches to the first foundators and their heires , so as they should have power to nominate and present a pastor to the church . but there were two notable wrongs in this ; for . if the fundator have all the lands and rents in those bounds , where the church was erected , hee is oblieged to erect a church , and furnish a ●●pend , both by the law of nature and so by gods law also . ergo , the church owe to him no gift of patronage for that , nor is hee to keepe that patronage in his hand , when hee erecteth a church ; but and if hee being lord heritor of all the lands and rents , both erecteth a church , and dotteth a stipend , sub modum eleemosynae , non sub modum debiti , by way of almes , not by way of debt , then is there no gratuitie of honour , nor reward of patronage due to him , for almes as almes hath no reall or bodily reward to bee given by those on whom the almes is bestowed , but onely the blessings of the poore , joh . . it being a debt payed to god , hee doth requite it . and h calderword saith , no wise man would thinke that the church men should allure men to found churches , and to workes of pietie , by giving them the right of presenting a man to the change : and also hee would call it simonie , not pietie or religion , if one should refuse to doe a good worke to the church , except upon so deare●t rate , and so hard a condition as to acquire to himselfe po●er over the church of god. though the ●ight of presenting a man to benefice were a meere temporall thing , yet because it removeth the libertie of a free election of the fittest pastor , as i origen saith , it cannot bee lawfull , but it is not a temporall or civill right , but a spirituall right , though wee should grant that the people have a free voyce in choosing , and that the patron were oblieged to present to the benefice , the man onely whom the people hath freely chosen , and whom the elders , by imposition of hands , have ordained . . because the pastors hath right to the benefice , as the workeman is worthy of his hire , and hee hath a divine right thereunto by gods law , cor. . , . & c. gal. . matth. . . ergo , if the patron give any right to the pastor to the benefice , it must bee a spirituall right . if it bee said , hee may give him a civill right before men , that according to the lawes of the commonwealth , hee may legally brook and injoy the benefice ; this is but a shift , for the civill right before men is essentially founded upon the law of god , that saith , the workeman is worthy of his hire : and it is that fame right really that the word of god speaketh of : now by no word of god , hath the patron a power to put the preacher in that case , that hee shall bee worthy of his wages , for hee being called , chosen as pastor , hee hath this spirituall right not of one , but of the whole church . . it is true , papists seeme to bee divided in judgements in this , whether the right of patronage bee a temporall or a spirituall power ; for some canonists as wee may see k in abb. decius , l and rubio , and the glosse m saith it is partly temporall , partly spirituall . others say it is a spirituall power , as n anton. de butr. and o andr. barbat . and p suarez , and whereas papists doe teach that the church may lawfully give a right of presenting to church benefices , even to those who are not church men , the power must bee ecclesiasticall and spirituall , and cannot bee temporall ; also suarez saith , that the right of patronage may bee the matter of sim●ny , when it is ●●ld for m●ney . ergo , they thinke it an holy and spirituall power . it is true q the bishop of spalato calleth it a temporall power , which is in the hand of the prince , but there is neither reason nor law , why it can bee called a temporall power due to a man , seeing the patron hath ( amongst us ) a power to present , and name one man , whom he conceiveth to be qualified , for wee find the nomination of a list , or the seeking out of men fit for the holy ministry , some times ascribed to the church , as act. . then they appointed two , joseph called barsabas , who was surnam d jus●us , and matthias , which words may well bee referred to the eleven apostles , and so they nominated men , or to the church of beleevers , and so though it bee not an authoritative action , it is an ecclesiasticall action , and belongeth to the church as the church , and so to no patron : and the looking out of seven men to be presented as fit to bee ordained deacons , is expresly given to the church of beleevers , act. . . wherefore brethren , looke yee out amongst you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , seven men of honest report ; and sometimes the apostles doe nominate men for the ministery , but never doth the holy ghost mention a patron . but if the thing it selfe ( say they ) hee necessary , then is the office not unlawfull . but it is most necessary that some one or more eminent and powerfull men , should have power to see that the church goods bee not delapidated . answ. it is a part of the magistrates office , with his accumulative power , whereby hee seeth that every one doe their dutie , to take care that vulturs and sacrilegious devourers of church livings bee punished ; and the church themselves are to censure all guiltie of simony or delapidation of the rents of the church , as may bee gathered by due analogie from peters punishing with death , the sacriledge of ananias and saphira , and the simony of simon magus . . the ancient church ●ooke care of dividing of the church rent very carefully in foure parts ; one was given to the pastor , who was not to imploy ●ents of the church upon horses and coaches , and conquering baronies and lordships to their sonnes , as our idle belleys were in custome to doe , but the bishop was to entertaine hospitalls , and to feed the poore , to take care of bridges , rep●ring of churches , so as r ambrose saith , what ever is the biships , it is the poores ; a second part was given to the elders and deacons ; a third part was for the repairing of churches , and a fourth part for hospitalls , for poore and strangers ; this distribution with some other order , is made , if wee beleeve papists , s in a synod at rome under silvester the first , though socrates , theodoret , sozomen , and others well versed in antiquitie speake nothing of this synod , but you may see this cleare in t synodo bracarensi , in u aventinus , in x gregorius , so there is no need of a patron , nor was there any in the apostolick church . deacons were to take care for tables , and the goods of the poore , no reason that men seeme more carefull for the good of the church then jesus christ. . though there bee a necessitie that the church bee defended in her liberties , yet is there no reason , an office should be made thereof ; as the canonists make it an office , with a sort of stipend ; and therefore to make a patron they require not onely the founding of a church , but also the building of the house , upon his owne charges , and the dotation of a mainten●nce for the church , y and for this cause the patrou hath a buriall place in the church ; and if hee or his children become poore , they are to be entertained of the church rents ; and therefore they call it jus ●uti'e , a gainefull power . . it is jus b●norifioum , hee hath power to nominate and present a man to the benefice of the vaiking church . . it is jus onerosum , because hee is oblieged to defend the church ; see the● z law for this ; so see also a calderwood , b gerardus , c suarez , d anton. de dom . arcb . spal h●spinianus ; yet justinianus himselfe forbiddeth that the patron should present a man to the bishop to bee examined and tryed , and certainly this place and charge for the defending of the church of christ from injuries and wrongs 〈◊〉 christ of want of foresight and providence , who hath not appointed officers civill and e f eccle●●asticall to take care of his church , for no power over the church was ever given to builders of synagogues , and therefore a calling by the patron is no more christs way , then a calling by the prelate and his chaplaine . . nor would the church receive the ministers from christ jer. . . and the laying on of the hands of the elders , tim. . . tim. . . but by the authoritie of the patron , who doth nominate the man , and may charge the presbyterie , by law to admit him minister of such a flock . nor is it enough to say that the patron doth present to such a benefit onely , and doth leave all the ecclesiasticall part to the church , and the officers thereof , for this would say something , if the patron were tied to the churches free choise , whereas the contrary is true , that the church is tyed to the patrons free election of the man , but this is nothing , because the patron being but one man onely , and so the church can have no lawfull proprietie , right and dominion over the rents of the church , for christ is onely lord and proprieter , and just titular of all rents dotted for the maintenance of the ministery , and under christ , when the place vaiketh , the rents recurre to the church , as the proper proprieter under christ : as the goods of ananias and saphira are the goods of the church , after they had given them in to the publick treasurie of the church ; ergo , the patron can give no right to any person to bee presented and ordained , for no man can give to another that title and right which hee hath not in himselfe . if it bee said , hee may give in the churches name , as the churches patron , those goods which are mortified to the church , well , then is the patron in the act of presenting the representative church , and hath the churches power ; ergo , hee is but the churches servant in that , and to doe at the churches will , and the church is the first presenter , this is a new representative church , that wee have not heard of . . this is against the nature of the patrons office , whose it is , when hee foundeth and buildeth a church , to reserve the right of patronage to himselfe , and never to give that right to the church ; ergo , by his owne authoritie , and not in the churches name , hee giveth title to the benefice , to the pastor of minister . . the church hath not power to alien ate and dispose to one particular man , those goods which are given to god , and to his church , so as that one hath power in law to dispose those goods to any , without the churches consent , as the patron may doe . the church may dispose and give power to one man to doe certaine actions in the churches name , but yet so as the church retaineth power to regulate that her delegate , or commissioner in these acts , and to correct him , in case of aberration ; but the church hath no power over the patron as patron to limit him in the exercise of his power , for the right of patronage is his by birth , he may sel it for mony to another ; to a papist , to an excommunicate person , to a jew , or an enemy of the church , as hee may sell his lands and houses , and hath a civill right thereunto under his majesties great seale ; therefore the patron doth here , proprio suo jure , by his owne proper right , present and give title and law to the church benesice , and doth not present in name of church , or as having from the church a power . . what ever taketh away an ordinance of christ , that is not lawfull : but the power of patrons taketh away the ordinance of christ , and the free election of the people , because the people have power to choose out of many one fittest , and most qualified , for the office ; as is cleare , act. . . act. . v. last . act. . . because the man chosen should bee one of a thousand , as g didoclavius or calderwood saith in that learned treatise , called altare damascenum . nor can it be said ( saith that learned author ) that the church may transferre her right of presenting to a patron , for that is in effect to transferre her power of election , but that ( saith hee ) . the particular church cannot doe except by the decrce of a gener all assembly , neither can that right bee transferred over to a generall assembly , especially a perpetuall and hereditary right , because ( as saith h cartwright ) it is a part of that libertie , which is purchased by christs blood , which the church can no m●re alienate and dispose , then shee can transferre or dispose to another her inheritance of the kingdome of god , to the which this libertie is annexed : thus he . . the discerning of the spirits , and the knowing of the voyce of christ speaking in his called servants , is laid upon the flocke of christ , whose it is to elect , but not upon the patron , which may bee a heathen , and a publican , and as such is no member of the church . . every humane ordinance not warranted by christs tostament , and abused to sacriledge , rapine , delapidation of church-rents , and simoniacal pactions with the intrants into the holy ministery , is to bee abolished , and is unlawfull : but the right of patronages is such as experiences teacheth to many and lamentable . the proposition is above cleared . . that calling in part or in whole , which giveth no ground of faith , and assurance of a lawfull calling to the ministers entry to that holy charge , cannot belawfull ; but the calling to the ministery by the good will and consent of the patron as patron , is such . ergo. the proposition is cleare , every lawfull meane and way of entry unto that calling is warranted by a word of promise , or precept , or practise ; the calling by the patrons consent , hath neither word of promise , or precept , or practise in the word ; and stayeth not the conscience of the man of god , that hee did not runne unsent : but a man is never a whit the more staid in his conscience , that hee is presented by a patron , to the tithes , and parsonage and vicarage of such a congregation . it is but a cold comfort to his soule , that the patron called him . . what ever priviledge by the law of nature all incorporations have to choose their owne rulers and officers , this christ must have provided in an eminent manner to the church : but all cities , societies , incorporations and kingdomes have power to choose their owne rulers , officers , and members , as is cleare by an induction of all free colledges , societies , cities and republicks . ergo , this cannot bee laid upon a patron ; see for this also i amesius , k guliel . apollonius , who citeth that of l ath●nasius , where is that canon in the word , that the sent minister of christ , is sent from the court , or the princes pala●e ? as concerning the other two , this author condemneth lands dedicated to the ministery , because the new testament speaketh nothing of such lands . answ. this speaketh against glebes of ministers , but the new testament speaketh not of manses or houses , or of moneys for ministers ; yet a wage wee know is due , matth. . . cor. . , , . gal. . . and the levites were not to bee distracted from the most necessary worke of the tabe●●acle , and service of god , more then ministers , yet they had lands and townes assigned of god to them ; though the lesse dis●ract●ous the wages bee , the better , and the more convenient they are , tim. . . . . as for the tithes wee thinke quotta decimarum , or a sufficient maintenance , of tithes , or what else may conduce for food and raiment , of divine right , matth. . . cor. . , . tithes formally as tithes are not necessary , so the ministers bee provided , and a stipend bee allowed to them , not as an almes , but as a debt , luk. . . but the stinting of maintenance for ministers the author condemneth , because when constantine gave large rents to the church , it proved the lane of the church . but i answer , stinting maketh not this , but excesse , for mountaines of rents may bee stinted , no lesse then mole-hills . in the first proposition pastors are to bee chosen of new , in england , though they have beene pastors before , and that by the imposition of the hands of some gracious and godly christians . answ. such an ordination wanteth all warrant in the word of god. . why are they ordained over againe , who were once ordained already ? belike you count them not ministers , and baptisme administred by them , no baptisme , though these same gracious christians have beene baptized by such , and so england hath no church visible at all , and no ministry ; see what you lay upon luther and some of our first reformers , who had their externall calling from antichristian prelates , the same very thing which papists lay upon them . . if there bee called pastors in england to lay on hands on ministers , why are not they to impose hands on such as you judge to bee no ministers ? because possibly the prelates laid hands upon them , seeing you grant chap. . sect. . where there are presbyters to lay on hands , it is convenient that ordination should bee performed by them . i confesse i am not much for the honoring of the prelates foule fingers , yet can they not bee called no pastors , no more then in right wee can say , caiaphas was no high priest. proposition . hee willeth pastors , and doctors , and elders to bee put in the ●●●me of parsons and vicars . answ. if the offices of parson and vicar bee set up , it is reason they be abolished , but for the names there is not much necessitie of contending , though in such cases it bee safer to speake with the scripture , then with papists : the vicar generall is indeed the bishops delegat , and a creature to bee banished out of the house of god , of whose unprofitable place & stile , see that learned writer m d●●id calderwood , who findeth him to bee made of the metall of the popes service , base copper not gold. n and the popish parson is as the vicar ; firewood for antichrists caldron . in the . and . propositions , it is said , that it is necessary 〈◊〉 preachers countenanced from king , and state , were sent to 〈◊〉 to congregations generally ignorant , and prophane , and till they 〈…〉 measure of gracious reformation , as they can testifie their faith and repentance , it were meet they should never renew their c●●●nant made in baptism , nor yet have the seales of the covenant con●●●ed upon them , but till then they shall lament after the lord , as the 〈◊〉 did when the arke had beene long absent , sam. . . answ. in these propositions most of all the congregations of england , except some few following the way of independencie of church government , though they bee baptized and professe the truth , are brought just to the state of turkes and indians willing to heare the word , or of excommunicated persons , for they and their seede are to want the scales , their children bapti●me , themselves the lords supper . but . how can the 〈◊〉 in ordinary rebukes , and excommunication from the s●al● bee exercised upon these who are without , and no churche as yet ? for while they sweare the covenant , they are not churches . . it is said , godly preachers must bee sent to them , 〈◊〉 th●y 〈◊〉 reformed ; but why not godly pastors ? because th●ugh these preachers preach unto them , yet exercise they no pastorall care over them , because they are not yet a visible church and flocke , and therefore have no more pastors to care for their soules , then turkes and indians , and preachers have 〈◊〉 a pastorall relation to these , though baptized , and 〈◊〉 christ , then to indians , jewes or turkes , as our brethren teach , & a paterne of such flocks is not hard in the word , where ordinarily the word is preached to a number of people baptized , and yet baptisme denyed to all their seed , and the lords supper to themselves . . it is the same covenant the author speaketh of here with the church covenant that 〈◊〉 and judah made with god , and which they say essentially constituteth a church , and hinteth at the covenant of the church of scotland , sworne and subscribed by many thousands ign●rant and prophane , and who never came to such a measure of gracious reformation , as they can testifie their faith and repentance ; yet did this nation right in putting all to sweare and enter into a covenant with god , for israel , deut. . where there was many who had not eyes to see , eares to heare , and a heart to understand , v. . . and where there were many rebellious and stiff-hearted , deut. . . entered all of them into covenant with god , captaines , elders , officers , all the men of israel , deut. . v. . little ones , wives , children , hewers of wood , &c. all which attained not to such a measure of gracious reformation . chron. . . all judah and benjamin , and the strangers with them out of ephraim and manasseh , and out of simeon , entered into a covenant with god ; who after such apostasie could not all have attained to that measure of gracious reformation , as to testifie their faith and repentance by prayer , conference , experiences of gods wayes in their heart and confession , and yet the author saith o that there is no colour to conceive this way of entering into church estate by covenant , to be peculiar to the pedagogue of the old testament . . israels lamenting after the lord , sam. . . was not the repentance of a people , who was not a church visible , but was onely a people to bee prepared for a church state , and not fit to receive circumcision and the passoever ; as you conceive of the ignorant and prophane in england , which to you are no visible churches ; for israel at this time was a true visible church . the rest of the propositions tending to reformation not discussed elsewhere , i acknowledge to be gracious and holy counsells , meet for a reformation . the lord build his owne temple in that land , and fill it with the cloud of his glory . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e a psal. . . b sam. . v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c omnis sanguis concolor . franc. petrarch . psal. . . revel . . . e cor. , . notes for div a -e a cassian . de incar . lib. . c. . primum est errores penitus non in curr●rc , sec●ndum bene repudiare . b james . . notes for div a -e the way of the churches of christ in new england , c. . sect . fundamentalls authority of elders . magistrats power in matters ecclesiasticall . notes for div a -e the way of the churches . trelcat . loc . . a●t . ● . tylen . syntag. disp . . de eccl. dis . . thes. . profess . leyd . synop pur . theol. dis . . thes . . piscator dis . . n. , . bucan . loc . . quest . . s. . answer to quest. . way of the church . ch. sect , compare with . chap. . robins . iustifie . pag. . confess . separ . art . . bell de eccl. li. cap. . cor. . . mat. . . cor. . . confess . art . . quest. . a parker de po●it . eccl. l. . c. . b c●hol . paris . pag. . c paul baynes docesart tyrall . . q. concl . . pa. . a thom. . q. . art ad . b molina tom . tract . . dis . . n. . c suarez . tom. de legib . lib. . cap . d vasq. . dis . . cap. . e viguertus in institut theol. cap. . s. . f sotus de instit li. . q. . art . . g scotus . dist . . quest . . h altisiodore . l. sum tract . . cap. . qu. . i durandus . k gabriel . . dist . . q. . art. . concl. . l voetius des . causa . pap . li. . c. ca. . sect . . . m theodo . l. . ca. . c. . n gerson par . . sermon rhen. dom . . postpashat o anton. . l. . c. . a shindler in lexico . b muscul. com . in is. . . insigne acceptae potestatis , occonoms & praeposito domûs commendantur claves , quibus potestatem suam administret . c calvin comment ib. gualter homil. . claves symbolum potestatis , regibus claves offerunt d iunius . plenam administrationem e beza in . ma. aunot . potestas ministrorum , in mat. . f pareus . domus meae faciam te aeconomum g hieron . clavis , potestas excellentiae h chrysostom . homil. . in mat. magnam potestatem i august . de civit . de lib. . ca. . potestatem pastoris k beda in iohan. clavis est potestas ligandi & solvendi . a li. de fide ad pet. b stephan . in thesaur . ling. graecae . c whittakee tom . . contr . . c● . . d calvin . ib. dissert . de apostolatu petri. e bullinger ib. f erasm. para. g zwinglius . h marlorat com . i pareus . ib. a beza . ministerii ecclesiastici , authorit●● caelestis . b tolet comment in joan. in loc . an . . c maldonat . harm . in loc . d cajetan . com . in ioh. . . ideo hoc in loco instituitur & promulgatur sacramentum paenitentiae . e rolloc . ib●cpetita & reiterata potestas . f beza in ani . mad . in mat. . sicut ioannes iuterpretatur in sra . c. . g bulling . mat. . h pareus . quicquid solveris , id est , joh. . quorum peccata remiseritis . i calv. instit . . ca. . k whittaker . tom . . contr . . q. . ca. . l zwinglius com . m asuscul . in joh. . n way of the church of n. e. ca. . sect . o bulling . in loc . mat. . bullinger comment , mat. p muscul. ibid q beza an . r calvin comment s psa. . judg. . . psal. . . mat. . . acts . . acts . . mark. . . l levit. . . psal. . . jer. . . ps. . . act. . . rom. . . cor. . . rev. . . rev. . . job . . . a cap. . sect. . b mat. . . joh . . acts . . . a gretser de in augnr doctor luther . p. ● . b bel● . de cöcli . vut . l. , ca. . c suarez de trip . virt●dis . . de eccl. sec. . n. . d greg de valent tom . . dis . . q. . punct . . e hosius in confess . polmiea . f joan. de turre cremat . de gal. l. . ca. , , . a fran. iohnson art . . in m. clisions booke . p. . b mat. . . cor. . . cor. . . joh. . . c consess . art . . d remonst . conf . . & apol . cons. ib. e socin . tract . de eccl c. . n. . gatechis . raccoviens . c. . n. . f cartwright ans . to the adm●nit . tract . . c. ● div . . p . g beza an . in mat. . h pareus , apostolis dict manisestum est , quicquid vos apostoli ligaveritis , ut supra petro dixerat christus , mat. . . i calvin com . ib. k joh. weemes vol. . expos . of the judiciall law. c. . a way of the church of n. e. c. . sec. . irenaus i● qui in ecclesia sunt , presbyteris obed● oportet , iis qui successionem habent ab apostolis : qui cum episcopatus successione , charisma veritatis certum , secundum beneplacitumpatris , acceperunt . nazianzen . o● at . . de laud. bas. ejusdem throni particeps est petrus , cum reliquis apostolis , in illa verba , dabo tibi claves cyprian de unita ecclesia , christus eandem dedit omnibus apostolis potestatem , & hoc erant utique & caeteri apostoli , quod , pe●●us suit , pari consortto praediti & honoris & potestatis , he should have said , hoc erant utique & caeteri credentes in christum , quod petrus suit ; also basil de vita solitar . c. . omnibus pastoribus & doctoribvs candem potestatem tribuit , cu●us signum est , quod omnes , exaequo & ligant & solvunt . he should have said , omnibus credentibus in christum eandem potestatem tribuit . ambros. in ps. . & in luc. . ser. . quod hic dictum est , apostolis omnibus dictum ; non ait , omnibus credentibus dictum . the p●ilact . in mat. . quamvis soli petro dictum , tamen omnibus apostolis concessae sunt ( claves . ) cyrill● in joh. . l. . responsionem illi christus committebat , qui ordine primus , omnibus apostolis : non ait , omnibus credentibus . euthymius in mat. ca. tibi dabo claves , atqui donum hoc ceterorum fuit apostolorum . hugo de sanct . victor tom. . institut sanct . monaster . quamvis potestas solvendi & ligandi soli petro data videatur , tamen caeteris apostolis data est , haymo . homil in festo petri & pauli . quod petro dixit , in petro , caeteris apostolis dixit . cardin cusan . concord . cathol . . c. . nih l dictum a●●ctrum , quod alits apostolis n●n di●tum . glossa ordinaria , pet●us tanquam principa is inter alios ( apostolos ) non inter alios creientes , pro aliis dat respensionem . cyrill in es. . orat . sancti apostoli & evangelist●e fundamenta . hyeron li. cont . iovian , omnes apostoli acceperunt claves , non solus petrus . anselm in mat. . habent eandem judiciariam potestatem al●i apostoli . anastasius in quest . sac . script q. . in . tom biblioth . potestatem clavium non soli petro , sed aliis etiam apostolis , & toti ecclesie in episcopis & presbyteris datam . august . tract . in joh . & lib. de ag●d . christi c. . beda , homil . in mat. . chry●ostom homil. . ad popul . hilarius ae trinit l. . euscbius histor . eccl. lib . c. . leo serm. . de assumpt . & citat bellar. de pont. lib. . c. . petro hoc singulariter creditur , quia cunct is rectoribus petri formâ proponitur , lyra in mat. . durand dis : . q . pro omnibus apostolis dictum . thom. . d. . q. . scot. . d. . q. . adrian . in . . d. q. . synod coloniens . sub . adulph c. . med . . hugo cardinal . in matthew . concilum aqu●sgranens . cap. . a augustine de trinit . lib. . cap. & in psalm . . b beda in joh. . c gregor . li. . c. . d gerard. loc . com●tom . . de eccl. c. . n. . e wiclefus tract . cont . monach . c. . f whittaker cont . . q. . c. . g august . cont . petilian . l. . c. ult . a presbytetiall government examined , p. . b doct. parisiens . de polit . eccles. pag. , . quest . a pauls presbytery , c. . . . * answ. in his animadvers . pag. , . a h●b . . . ez●k . . . ezr. . . jer. . . ezek. . . jod . . . ez●k . . . ex. . . . . ex. . ex. . . levit. . num. . . deur . . . deut . . . chron. . . chron. . . chron. . . b eph. . . col. . . col. . . thest. . . tim. . . acts . . c eph. . . colos. . . tim. . . act. . . . d cor. . . . cor. . . . cor. . , , . cor. . , , . gal. . . a tim. . . . tim. . . tim. . . tit. . . b tim. . pet. . , . . tim. . tim. . . tim. . , . a pag. . a august . de civ . det. l. . c. . b chrysost. homil. in exod. . c ambros. in luc. . d hiieronimus in luc. . e aquinas , . q. . art . . f bannes , in . art . . g suarez , tom . de fid . spe & charit . d●s . . de con . h cajetan . in . q. . ar . . i and. duvallius in . tom . poster . tract . de charit . q. . art . . k gregor . de valent . tom . . dis . . de correc . fra . quest . . punct . . l doct. juris canonici in decret . . q. . caus . peccaverit haec . m basil in ps. . n august . de verbo domin . serm . . o hieronim . in ps. . in illud corripiet me j●stus . p nazianzen in or at . de moderatione , in disputat . q calvin in epist. ad col . c. . r davenantius com . ib. a robinson justif . separation p , . . a robinson justif . p. . b rob. lb. pag. . c lb. a rob. ib. , . b ib. . c mat. . . d gerard. loc . com . tom . . de minist . eccles. n. . pag. . a socinus tract de eccles. pag. . b catechis . ● raccov . . pag. . c ostorod . in insi●t . german . cap. . p. . d theoph. nicolaides defens . soc. de eccles. cap. . pag. . e prov. . . f rev. . . g psal . . h amos . , . i rob. justif . of separation , pag. , . k rob. . l robins . , . m rob. , . n rob. , . a socin . tract . de eccl. pag. . b ostorodius in instit . cap. . pag. . c the. nicol. tract . soc. dc eccl. c. . p. . d rob. , . . way of the church of christ , in n. e. ( b ) robinson pag. . way of the church of ch . in n. e. a ainsnorth . b cons. art . . ap . c john paget defence of church-gover . ch . . pa. . and p . manus . ih , ch . . sect. . ib. ch. . sect. . manuscript , ●b . a inf. pag. a manuscript . the way of the church of ch. in n. e. b ainsworth animad vers . p. . . a ainsworth animadvers . p. . a regula juris . in . and . in ff . non est sine culpa , qui , rebus , quae ad ipsum non spectant , se immiscet , cum periculo alterius . b suarez , de tripl . virt dis . . de bello sect . . n. . c bannes in . q. . concl . . d an. duvallius in . tract . de charit . art . . a nava●re dist . . de poe●itē . c. st qu●s aute● . b corduba dist . q. & . c sylvester confessor . . s. . d adrian quo . l libet . e suarez . . . par . . de oper . sex dier . de proxim . regul . bonit . & malit . dis . . sect . . n. . f rom. . a thomas . q. . art . . b bonavent . ib. art . . q. c richard act . . q. ● . d gabriel ib. a●t . e occam in . q. . f antoni . part tit . . c. . s. . g adrian quod . l. . ar . . h almaintrac . de opere morali . . c. . i suarez de oper . sex dic● in par . . de prox . reg. bon. & mal . act . dis . . sect . n. . k aquin. . q. . art . . l valentia . tom . . dis . . q. princ . . m duvallius . tom. . tract . de human . act . q. . art . . n almain . de potest . eccle. & laica . c. . o occam . in . . q. . a reg. juris culpabilis est ignorantia rerum quas scire tenemur . a reg. juris lex non est de singularibus , lex non c●rat de particula●●bus . b deut. . . mat. . . ● tim . . exod. . . c ioh. weemes . vel expos . of judiciall larres ch . . p. . a bonavent . . q . b rich. a●t . . q . c occam . q● . a● . . d anton. . ● . ● act . . ca. . ● . . e adrian . quod . lib. 〈◊〉 . ●● . f weemes loc . cit . g henricus ● . q●●●ll . . q. . h robnson justi● . of sepa●at . p. . i ● tim. . ●● . c ains . loc . cit . jer. . , , . deut. . , , . ki. . . . isa. . . . e micah . . , . . f zeph. . . g sam. . h sam. . . . i ki. . jud. . . v. . a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cont . tylen . parenes . l. . c. . sect . . & . b steph. in thesau . c cyrill . hyerosolamita . d causab . cont . baron . . . e loc. cit . f baynes diocesan tryall . q. . p. . cor. . a paul baynes dioces . tryal . q. . p. . ib. p. . * paget defence of church government chap. . a lorin . comment in act . b cajetan com . ●b . c robin justi . p. , . d pet. martyr com in cor. . e whittaker com . q. . p. f bilson perpet . govern . p . g chamier pan . l. . ●om . h pareus cor. . . com . mat. . i beza , annot . in act . . v. . & . k calvin . comment in act . . . l harmon . confess . art . , . m 〈◊〉 de eccl. li . c. n cartwright refut r●em gor. o fulk against the rhemistes act . p ursin explic . par . p. . q zwinglius expl act . . . r munsterus in mat. . s theodoret. dialog . . t irenaeus cont herm●g lib. . u cyprian l. . epist. . a way of the church of chin n. e. c. . sect . . hosea . . to the eleventh question , pag. , . church-government discussed . lb. pag. , . a church government discussed , answer to quest . . pag. . when christ layeth 〈◊〉 a warrant for the power of binding and looseing given to all churches , his wisdome hath fitted the rule , so that it agree to al churches , to a congregation that 's alone in a remote iland , to a church presbyteriall , or nationall , as parker doth apply it to prove the power of synods . if a little body of a congregation , in a remote isle , have power from christ , to cut off a rotten member , l●st it infect the whole body ; shall we doubt but our wise lawgiver hath given that same power to a greater body of many visible congregations , which is under the danger of the same con●agious infection ? the way of the church of christ in . n. eng. a the . question propounded by the godly and learned brethren of old england . a cajetan . coment . ib. b eras. sarcer . in loc . c bullinger oomment . d paraeus v. . e p. martyr . ib. f paraeus in ●s . . a ambrosus . b oecumenius in loc . c theophylact. d calvin . e pet. martyr . comment . f bullinger . g pareus h beza . i pelican . k pomeran cō . l meyer . m sarcerius com . n marloratus . o paraphraste● . p haymo com . q aquinas . r eras●●● paraph. a augustine saith , haeres . . eccl. siam christi de ●oto te●rarum or●e 〈◊〉 , ●que●s africa dona●i parte remansyle . b augustin . epist. ad uincent in illa verba , indica , ubi pascis in meridie viden. solam & solam illi in meridie , vos in occidents ? saith morton apolog p. . c. . answereth bellarmine de ecclesia mil●● l. . c. . c field of the church . book . . ch . d morton grand imposture ch . . . challeng p. . e gerard. to . . de ecclesia c. . p. . . nu . . a pa●k●r ●n the crosse parag . . c. . p. . d● c. . b brightman in apocal. . c cartwright repl . . p. . non distinguendum , ubi lex , ubi legislator non distinguit . manuscript ch . . sect . . a quest. . b apology of the churches of new england , c. . c the way of the church of christ in new england , ch . . sect . . prop. . d apology for the church of n. e. ch . . e way of the church , chap. . sect . . the state of the question concerning the church covenant . a alphonsus à castr. tit . vota . b bellarm. de eccles . milit . lib. . cap. . ●andem heresin . lampetianorum lutherus tenet . c bellarm , de monarch . l. . c. . d origen . nazianzen . ambrose . augustinus exponit i●lud , matth. . . e bellarm. de monach , lib. . cap. . f maldonat . in math. . a the way of the churches , chap. sect. . b discourse of church-covenant , fol. , . c apolog. chap. . d discourse of the church-covenant , fol. . e beza annot . marg . act. . . f syrus interp . ibid. g arab. interp . ibid. h latin. interp . ibid. i gal. . . ep. joh. . k apologie of the church of new england . l act. . . 〈◊〉 . . . tim. . . pet. . ● , . m apol. ●● . * apology for the churches of new england , c. . a discouse of a church covenant , fo . . b gal. . . psal. . , . esau . . c heb. . . d ier. . . ch . . v , , , , . i●rem . . . a discourse of the church-covenant fol. , , . b parker de pol. eccles. l. . c. . p. . . c fox acts & monum . . a apology c. . b p●●ker de polit . . c. . a concl. laodi● . c. . b gregorius de consecrat . c. . c. ab antiqua . c leo epist. . d augustin . in joan. tract . . de trinit . li. . c. . de baptismo l. . c. . e tertulli●n de resurrell . carnis . f cyprian . epist . ad iubajan . g ambros. de sacram l . c. . h concil . elibert . c. . & . i perkins . problem p. . k martin . bucer in leiturg . angl. ch . . l chemnitii examen concili trident. l. . p. . m pet. martyr loc . com . class . . de confirm . n whitgift p. . . o pareus comment : in heb. . p beza annot . in job . . q calvin comment in heb. . r bullinger comment . heb. a pareus , in collei●●m apostolorum nos receperunt , dextrit nobiscum jūctis , quod intimae conjunctionis nostrae signum fuit & obsignatio . b bullinger ib. c beza , a●not . a way of the churches of christ in . n. eng. ch . . sect . . prop. . a esai . . . , . josh. . , , . b apology ch . . c. . . c discourse of the church covenant . fol. . . d the way of the church ib. a apolog , c. . a iunius anal . deut. . non dederat vobis co● ad res visas & auditas observandum . b amesius coron . . art. arg. . p & antisy● . art. . c. . p. . c piscator . amicâ duplicat . ad vorst . p. . d calvin com . in deut. . e cajetan in deut. f abulensis . g remons . in script . dordr . art . . p. . h vorstius contra piscat . p. . . i grevinchov . con . amis . p. . k episcop . disp . . th●ll . . l catech. raccov . c. p. . m socin . ad object . critteni . p. . n edvard . poppius , august . part . p. . & . c. . . o discourse of the church-covenant fol. . p way of the church ch . . sect . . a episcop . disp . . thesi , , , . b remonst . in confess . cap. . thesi . c iac armin. antiperke , pag. . in illa math. . d theoph. nicolaides in refut . tractat● de eccle . cap. , p , . smalcius disputat de eccles . . p. . f ostorodius jnslit . c. . p. . . a apology c. . a parker de polit . l. . c. . b cartwright adversus harrin . sonum . c apology ch . ● . a way of the church ch . . ●ct . . b juni●● in annot . prostrati auxilium cjus imploran●es . b apolog. ubi supra . a the way of the churches of christ in new england ch . . sect . . b apolog. c . author of the discourse of church-covenant . fol. . c calvin musculus in comme . gualther in loc . d iunius annot . e musculus ib. f iunius annot g calvin com . h gualter . regul . j●ris conditionatum ●ihil ponit , nisi ponatur conditio . a discourse of the church covenant art . . a calvin . b pola● . com . c iunius . a discourse of a church-covenant , ●ol . . b calvin praelect . ●b . c musculus com . isai. . d discourse of the church covenant . f. . b musculus . c calvinus pr●l●ct . ●●●o sic deus ecclesia m●●itus est , ut ecclesie sue maritet ●●nes p●pulos , qui ad cam aggregantur . d author of the church-covenant . e the way of the churches , chap. . sect . . prop. . f apologie chap. . a way of the churches of christ in new england , ch . . sect . . a apology , ch . . b apology , ch . . c the way of the churches of christ in new england , c. . sect . . a discourse of the church covenant , fo . . b the way of the churches c. . sect . . c apolog. ch . . d iustin martyr apol . e discoruse of the church coven . . f zipperus de polit . ecclesiastica . l. . c. . consuctum est nt qui admittantu● ad s. caenam corā totâ ecclesia , publicè sidei consessionem edam per parentes aut c●s qui erant parentum loco . g discourse fol. . also if you w●ge a confession of faith before baptisme of all and every one , ourdivines from iohn his baptizing of all judea , doe prove the baptizing of infants , you call in question with anabaptists , if it be law full to baptise infants , & you make a church covenant necessarily requisite before baptisme , and so all baptized must be members of the visible church , which you deny . a synod . heideburg . c. . b synod . lugdinens . act . . c parisiens . art . . d parker de polit . ecclesiast . l. . c. . , , . e apology ch . . f erasmus in paraph. g beza annot in loc . c pomeran . comment . a cajetan . com . in loc . a apolog. c. . arg. from reason . a apolo ib. ch . arg. b discourse of the church covenant ●●l . . . c apology p. . a enaristus epis● . de episcopis ●j●ctis sicut vir non debet adul●erare uxorem suam , ita neque episcopus ecclesi● suam ut cam demitttat . b concil . antioch . c. . c concil . sardi . cons. . d concil carthaginense . c. . e i●nocetius . . f dominicus sotus justit . & jure . l. . quest . . art . . g innocent . h way of the church ch . . sect . prop. . i ibid. ch . . sect . . a pareus comment , rom. . b beza ann●t . c calvin . com . d castellio . quest. . sent and resolved by the postors of new england . a pareus urfin . in mand . . q● . . art . . b ' bucanus loco . quest . . c tilen . sint . disp . . in tert . pr●c●pt disp . . thess . d profess . leyd . synop . purior . theolog . disp . . thess. . e calvin in mand . . a arias mont. b hebraei . c iunius annot . a remonst . in scrip . synodicis pag. . b remonst . in presat . ● declarat . suam confessiones co fine editae , non ut authores earum , testatum facerent quid sit credendum sed quid ipsi crederent . c apolog. rem●str . fol. . a socinus respon . & resp. & volani pag. . b smalcius refut . lib. de error . arr. au . . c. . f. . c nicolaid . in resut . tract . de ecclesia c. . pag. . d quest. ● ● e episc●pius disp . . thes . . f smalcius loc . cit . g remonst . apol. f. . a remonstrant . apol . hoc itaque fundamento se●el 〈◊〉 j●cto , semper in ecclesia christi sarta tecta man●●it libertas ( 〈◊〉 ●an-di ) quâ sine periculo in formulas islas ( ●d est fidei cōfessiones ) inquirere , iisque sine periculo contradicere licebit . b apol. remonst . s . theologiae ipsius ani ma suffocatur atque eliditur , ubi decisiones sunt , quibus constanter sirmiterque haerendum esl . c episcop . disp . . thes. . li●i ●m sinem facere circa religionis capita ( per confessones & cavones synodicos ) aliter quam persuadendo , est tyrannidem invehere in ecclesiam , l. c. et libertiu● conscientiarum si non omnino toll●re , saltem vehementer astringere & ligare . d censure declar ▪ profess , leyd . in praefa . fides ●orari● , vel menstrua stc erit . ruling elders . acts . v. . a bilson . de gube● nat . eccles. c. . p. . b didoclav . in altar damascen . p. . a bilson . de gubern . p. . a didoclavius altar . damascen . p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prov. . v. . bilson de guber . c. . p. . didoclavius altar . damascen . p. . salmeron in tim. . . disp . . tom. . ambrosius in tim. chrysost. hom . . estius , comment . tim. . salmeron comment . in rom . v. . estius com . in cor. . idem com . in ephes. c. . . salmeron in cor. . . luke . . . synod . can . invenimus eos esselocutos ( act. non de viris qui ministrant mysterits , sed de ministerio quod in usu mensarun● ad hibebatur , secundum chrysostom . chryost . ●omil . . ● act . altar damas● . p. . estius com . in . tim. hugo card. com . in loc . cornelius a lap . in loc . chrysostome in locen . cyprian l. . epist. . ad antonianū . bernard serm. . de ●ssiupt . lyra in loc . salmero com . in loc . a sozomen l. . c. . b epiphan . l. . c. . c eusebius l. . de vna cons. d ruffinus l. . c. . e ambros. c. . ad ephes. f concl. nice c. . g ruffin . l. . c. . h hugo cardinal . com . in loc . i chrysost. in loc . k hugo cardin . c. in . loc . chrysosto . theophyl . anselmus . l salmer . com . in loc . m estius in loc . n cornelius à lapid . com . in loc . the way of the churches of christ. a robinson iust. of s●pa● . p. . b iust of separ . p. . . a robinson . just. separ p. . . b confess art . . lb. . robins . iust of sepa● . p. . ● a catech. rac. de eccles . ch . p. . . b smalcius in refut . thesiii dr. sra●zii . par . . disp . p. . c nicolai● . in defens . tract . socinian● de ministr . missione contra miedziboz●um p. . d remons . apol . f. . e episcop . disp . . thes. . * rom. . , . a p. , . b just. p. ● ▪ a t●rtul . de praescrip c. . b naz. orat . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c occam dial . p. . l. . c . & sect . c. . &c . qut sidem primitus fundavit catholicam , tot●st date pauperes , simplices ill●crator & rusticos in aedis●●ationem eccles. orthodoxae . d beza to . ● in . opusc . p. , . e iren. l. . c. . f aug. de vinc . c. . g binnius to . p. . h concil . lateran . c. . s. . iacet desolata asia &c. i prosper de voc t gent●um l. c. . k aug. de con e●s . evang. s. . c. . l bellarm de pont. rom. . cap. . m lren . l. . c. . n cyprian l. ● . cp . . o 〈◊〉 p 〈…〉 . the 〈◊〉 do eccles . sect . . n. q innocent . . ca. de sacram. non iteran . tis . r bell. tom . . 〈◊〉 sacr . or . l. l. . c . s uasquez in . part . theol. disp . . t joan de lugo to●n . de sacra . disp . sect . n. . u petr. arcudites de co ●cor . eccles. occ. & orient . in sacra . administrat . l. . c. . cired initium rapitis . x concil . floren . b concil . carthag . llll . c. an . , . c sotus . d. . q. . art . . d suarez in part . disp . . sect . e vasq. in . part . disp . . c. . & c. . f joan. de lugo desacra . disp . . sect . . n. , . g scotus in . . disp . . q. . h robins . inst. sapa p . i ut supra ; k u●et . disp . causa papatus . l. . sect . c. . & c. . p. , , . l apud uoetium loc . cit . m robinson just. sepa . a robinson iust. of sepa . p . b gen. . . gen . , num. . , ● num. , , a quest. . b the way of the churches of christ in new england , c. . sect . . c cyprian epist. . l. ● . d cor. . , . cor. . . cor. . . cor. . , . cor. . ephes. . manuscript . ( a ) way of the churches of christ in new england , ch . . sect . a ier. . . ioh. . , . rom. . , . cor. . , , , . ephes. . . cor. . . thes. . ● . heb. . . tsm. , . tim. . . . . acts . . tit. . . pet. . . revel . . . ib. sect . . vbi sup . sect . . c. . a quest. . quest. . * . reas. ib. a perkins . on gala. b willet synop . con . . , . p. . c whittaker de eccles . q. . c. . d ames . bel. l●m . enerv . de cler . l. . de ordin . c. . e apol. remostran . c. . ● . missio seu ordinatio episcoporum non est ●am necessaria in ecclesia constitut● . f nicola●d . in d●s●tract . de miss . min. c. . ● . . in c●●ombus apostolorum , quibus describuntur om●●● . quae pertinent ad constituend●● episcopos & doctores , quon●am nulla sit mentio missionis ( ordinatio is ; ) h●nc concludinus eam ad ips● muneris episcopalis substantiā & naturam nul●o modo requi●i . g socinus in loc . ad rom. . h ostorodius in de sens . de eccles. & miss . ministr● . adversus m●edzeboz . c. . f. ● . & . c. . falsum est apostolos semper requisivisse in ministro ordinationem . i robins . ins●i● . p. , . a iunius contra bellarm. de cl●r . l. . c. . b acts . . cor. . . cor. . . acts . . acts . . c tertul. apol . . d cyprian . l. . epist. . ad soeli . presbyterum . d cyprian cp . c. . l. ep . . e bellarmine . f cyprian ep . g ignatius ep , ad philadelph . h ambros. ●p . quae est ad valentin . i origen h●m . . ad c. . levit. k chrysost. de sacerdot . l. . l theodoret bist . l. . c. . m theodoret. bist . l. . c. . n concil . africanum . o con. chalcedon . . . p concil . ancyr . c. . q conc. laodic . can . . & can . r gratian. ex constis . glossa ad regul . . s nicolaus papa c. in nomine d. . t gelasius pap . ad phil. & ser. epist. dist . . u dist. . x jvo episcop . carnatensis ep . . y concil . sardicens . ut ha be●ure . . dist . . z concil . tolet , . can . . ut citatur cum longe dist . . * concil , constan . sess. . a concil . basil. sess. . b in c. licet de electione dist . . c jac. ahnain de potest . eccles. d ja. gerson de potest eccles. e review of the councell of trent . l . c. . f concil . l●teran . g theodoret. l. . c. . h ambros. epist. . i zonaras in con. laodic . c. . & . k theol. hist , l. . c. l concil . carthag . an . . m petru● a navar. de rest . ablator . l. . c. . n vasquez . 〈◊〉 . . disp . . c. . uum . . o platin. i● vit . pontis . p sanctius cō . acts . . q azorius instit . moral . par . . l. ● . c. . r krantius metropol . l. . c. . s concil . bracar . c. . t concil . nic. . ca. . u concil . constant . . c. . * conc. laodic . c. . x bellarm. de cler . . c. . & l. de ordin . c. . y vasquez in . ●om . . de sacra . dis . . c. . z concil . antioch . a ruffinus histor. l. . c. . b perkins on gal. . . c peter martyr on judg. c. . v. d zanchius com . in , eph. . e robinson iustification of separ . p. , , . f tertulliam apologe● . c. . g quest. . n robinson iustif. p. . a tom. . wettenber . p. . b gerard. lo●cem . to . de minister . eccles sect . p. . c be●an . in opulc de voc . min n t thil . . p. . d saddeel adversus articul . burdegal●uses art. ● p. . e paraeus com . ad rom. a raynerus rerum bohemic . script . p. . . b petr. pilichdorff . cōtra ●●aldenses c. . c aneas sylvius hist. bohe● . c. . d gretserus in exam . plessaeani myst . c. . e flaccius in catalog . testim . verit . f petr. ram. epist. ad lotharing . ann . . g hegesippus apud euseb. l. . c. . h lactantius div . instit. l. . c. . i pelusiot . l. . ep . l costerus . cont . causab . p. . m nicephor l. . c. . n britannoru loca romanis i●accessa ( id est . scotia ) christo subdua sum advers . judeos c. . . o c●nt . l . p baron anna . an. . sect . . q origen hom . . in ezech. r hierom. ad euagrium . s pius ep. . l. . t voetius disp . caus . papatus l. sect . . w plessaeus in myster . iniquit . c. . x molin . de novitate papismi . c. . l. . part . . y gretser . exam . myster . pless . ● . . z bellarm de pontif . ro. l. . c. . a vo●t . disp caus p●pat . l. . sect . . b ●l●m . romā . ●●nstit . l . c. . c eleuther . d gretser , exam . pless . myster . c. . . c. . e baron . an. . p. . f gretser . exā . m●st . pless . c. . g honorius . h concl. constant . an. . i concl. francosurtens . k concil . parision . an. . l thuanus histor . l. p. . doctrinam ( haldensiū ) per intervalia intermortuam renovavit . m concl. ●om . par . . p. . n onuphrius in gregor . . vita . o sleidan hist. . , period . c. . p lampad . in me●●isic . hist. p. . , . q b●rur●edensses de vit . greg. r sigon . de regno ●tal . l. . s avent . l. . p. , . t geroch . reichers l. . de investig . anti-christ . t orthuin . grat. in fasciculo rerum expetendarum , & . an. . u thegan . de gest . lod. imp. c. . x aimoin . l. . c. . y gretser . exam . pless . myster . c. . z anast. in ●ergio . a sig. de reg●● ital. l. . b anast. in lev. . c platin. in vit . l●on . . d grets . in exa . myst . pless . c. . e grets . ibid. f onuphr . l. de pontis . et cardin . in praefat . g concil . pisanum , an. . h concil . constan . genebraid , chron. ad anno. . per annos sere . a ioanne scilice● . ad leonem . pontifices circiter q●●quaginta ● virtute majorii desecerunt , apostatiei verius qua apostolici . the monk mantuanus l. de calam , romae , templa , sacerdotes , altaria , sacra , coronae , ignis , thur● , preces , coelum est venale deusq . i athanasius ep. ad solitar . alphonsus a cast. adversus haereses l. . c. . k tertullian adversus praxean . c. . l tom. . concil . art. . m bell. de pon . ro. l. . c. . n hyerom . in catalog . in acac. o alphonsus ● c●str . l. . c. . p erasm. prae fat . ad jrenae . l. . q maldon . in joan. . c. . r reginald in calvino-turk . l. . c. . s vsserus de eccles. christ. suc . c. . p. . t gret . ad petr. pilichd . p. . u reinerus . x calvin ep. . ad waldenses . ep. . ad tolonos . y gret . in exam 〈◊〉 . c. . z thuanus h●jlor . l. . a magdeburgenses ●ent . . c. . p. , . b sanderus de visibil monarch . l. . an. . c coccius thesau tom . . l. . art. . d parsonius de tribu● anglie conversionib . p : . c. . e usser de c●r . eccles . suc . c. . p. . , , , & 〈◊〉 . f serarius 〈…〉 g ioan wendelstonus p 〈…〉 & dec●et . pe●t . h usser . de eccles. christ. s●c . & stabil . c. p. . i albericus cass●● in chrom . l. . c. . k sig●nius de regm italic . l. . au. . l thuand . . p. . m aut●n . de dom . archi spalatens . l. . sect . . c. . n voetius disp . ca● . papat . l. . sect . . p. . o josephus antiq l. . c. . p tolet. com . in ioan. . q cajetan . r maldonat . s ianson . can . t calvin . u marlorat . x muscul. com . in ioan. y rollocus . z bullinger . a augustinus contra . advers . leg . & pro. l. . c. . vencrunt a seipsis , non missi . b clem. alex. strom. . non missi a deo. c brentius , bumanarum traditionum doctores . d beza in loc . e rolloc . com . ib. a calvin inst. l. . c. . sect. . epst. . b beza libel . quest . de baptism . c rive●●s in cathol . orthod . ●om . . tract . . q. . d bellarm. de baptism . c . e maldonat . com . in ioann . c. . v. . f gretser . in cas . conscien . q. . de baptism . p. . . & seq . g cajetan . com . in loan . . h toletus in . an. . i robins . iustific . p. , . a robinson iustif. p. . b page . way of the church of christ in , n. e. cap. . sect. . a rodger . catechism part . . art . . p. , . a augustin . contr . crescom . l. . . de baptis . l. . c. . contr . donati● . coll . . b cyprian● . l. eph. . c gregror . hom . , & . in evang . d chrysost. in psal. . & l. . de sacerd . e nazianzen , orat . . in julia. f eusebius de ● praep . evang . l. . c. . g hierom contr . pelag. & luciser . dialog . way of the churches of christ in n. e. ch. . sect. the way of the churches in n. e. ibid , a an●ibaptist . in coloquio francola●●ns . b pareus com . ib. c cajetan com . d bullinger com . e calvin com . ib. barow discov . of a false church . the author objecteth . ib. a parkerus de polit l. . . . p. . the author ibid. ibid. a a●olog . c. . can. necessit . of separat c. . sect . . p. . a robinson 〈◊〉 ● . it is true that our divines say , that it is one & the same church which is both visible and invisible , and that visibility is an accident of the church , but they then speake of the catholick visible church , but if we speak of a particular visible church in this , or that place , all in such a church as they exist , are either holy or prophane , but neither is holinesse , nor prophanes essentiall to a church visible , as visible . a robinson justi . separat p. . a robinson . ibid. . a arm. antip. p. . b corvinus ep . ad wallachros p. . c remonst . in script . synod . art . . p. . in apolog . c. . sol . . d socinus contra puticum . c : sol . ● . e tertullian contra marcionem . o ca●es &c. si deus bonus & praescius futuri & potens , cur hominem possus est lahi ? f robins . p. . a robinson p. . ●id . page . robinson justif. of lepat . p. . a luk. . . . b john . . , . c acts . . . d act . e rom. . . f phili. . . , . g thes. . , . & ep. , . h mat. . . . i mat. . . k mat. . , , . l mat. . . a corvinus contra . molm. c. . b a●n . antip. p. . . c grevincho . contra . am●sium . p. . , . , . d episcop . disp . . thess. . . e socinus praebet . theol. c. . f. . f smalicus resp . ad . par . resu smigles . c. s. . g ostorodius iustit . c. , . sect . . a robinson . ib. p. . b page . c jer. . . d rom. . . ( b ) robinson . justis . . a robinson iustis p. . a hieron . in diale● advers . lucif●rian . b iohn ball answer to can p. . c bellarm. de sacrific . li c. . d gratian. decret c. . q. . c. . . e nazianz. orat. . f august . consess . ar . s. g apol. c. . h apol. c. . i apol c. . a apol. c. . b peter coachman cry of ● stone sect . . p. . . mat. . the church of he●rers is called the visible kingdome , v. . exod. . heare o israel ez. . they sit before thee ( to heare the word ) as my people . a beza . an . in loc . calvin com . in loc . c bulling . com . in loc . d marlorat . in loc . e iodoc●s vullichius in loc . f robin . . a the way of the churches , ch . . sect . . p●op . . a suarez to● . . ad tert . part . thom. de censur . disp . . sect . . de excom . not . . b soto . d. . q. . c adrian de clavibus q. . ad . d alanus de sacrif . misse , l. . c. . f innocentius . de excom . g navar. c. . n. . h turrecrem . c●si quis episco . . quest . . i richard. in . d. . sect . . q. . k anton. . part . tit . . c. . l concil . araus . . q. . m augast . in joa● . tractat . . and epist. . n cor. . , , o the way of the churches , cap. . sect . . p robin . justif . of separat . p. . q coachman , cry of the stone sect . . p. . august . de doct . christi , l. . c. . contra cresoen . l. . c. . a navar. enc●●r . c. . n. . b g●●g . n. q. . c. . c concil . carthag . d gerson de excom . cons. . e concil . carthag . . c. . f concil . arelatens . . c. . g concil . turraconens . c. . h concil . agathens c. . i stephan . qu. in summa . bulla . con . provinc . n. . q. . k m antonius de dom. arch. spalat . de repub . eccles . l. c n. , . l mat. . , . m z●s . epist. . n coelcst . cp . . o horm . cp . p pelag. . cp . q m. anton. de dom . loc . citat . n. . r cajet . com . in thess. . s solo disp . . q. . art . t paludanus . d. . q. . u cajet . in verb. excom . major . c. ultimo . x sylvest . excom . n. . y navar. in summ● . n. . z concil . car. ●hag . . c. . ep●scopus nullum pre●ibeat ingredi ecclesiam , & audi● verbum ' dei sive gentilem , sive h●reticum , sive iudaemn a ' de consestat . dist . . c. b innocent . . verb. excom . c leo . cp cap. adjicimus ib q. . d suarez . to . . disp . . de excom sect . . n. . christus hic joan. . mat. non dedit po●estatem ordinis sed jurisdictionis . neque jure divino hic actus requirit ordinem , se● authoritatem pasloris . e tol. com . in joan. . an . f cajet . com . in . joan. . v. ib. g navar. sum . c. . . h basil , cp . . ad amph. c. . i field book of the church . cap. . k the way of the churches of christ in n. e. ch . . sect . . l cyprianl . . cp . . m socrates l. . c. . n august . contra donatistas de bapt . lib. . cap. . o cartwright c t●h . p august . de 〈…〉 . q chrysostm . ●om . . ad eph. r chrysostome . s theophylact. ●● mat. . t hilarius . w ireneus l. . c. . x gregor . hom . . in evang. y hieron . in au●s . z optatus con . parm●nd . . c. . a august tract . ●● 〈◊〉 . . b eugenius . 〈…〉 ent . c chrysost. hom . . in ●oann . d gregor . nazi●a . orat . ad ●anct . e turr●●rem . l. . c. . f vega in trident●n . con . l. c. . g pet. a scto . ● part . defens●●n . b●ent . h can. loc . com . . i suarez . de ●●ipl . virtute theolig●d . . sect . . n. . k coachman . the cry of a stone sect . p . l robinson . justis . of separat . p. . m the way of the churches ch. . sect. . n stapleton relect . . con . de eccl. . . ar . . & ib. note ● . o bellarm. de eccl . militant . l. . c. . p costerus de eccl c. . p. . q gordonius huntlaeus tom . . cont . . c. . p. . q. . r raccovia . c. s theol. nicolaides in defenstractat . de eccles . p. . . t smalcius in refut . fran . disp . . p. . . w remons . in belgro in confess . sua . c. . thes. . a august . l. de unitat . eccles. c. . b tertullian advers . heret . c hieron . com . in psal. . d chrysostom . bom . . in mat. e robins . just . p. . f coachman ●ry of the stone sect . pag. . & p . g the way of the churches ch . . sect . h robins . just . of separ . p. , . i prof. leyd . in synop. pur . theol. disp . . thes . . k ursin , pareus in catech. expl. q. . art . de ecces . l jun. to . disp . theol . . thes. . m august . confes . art . . n galvin . inst . . c. . sect . . o whittak . de eccl. cont . . q. . c. . p beza in confes . art . . q august . cont . don●●ist . r serv. of the church book . . ch . . s parker de polit . eccl. l. . c. . t cartwright advers . haeres . ibid citatur . w parker de politia l . per totum lib●um . x chemnitius part . . locor . de eccles. p. anabaptis●ae dicunt si quis doctrinam evangelii tr●elligat seve sit sutor sive sartor 〈◊〉 faber eam do●ere & concionari d●bere . y gastius de err●ribus catabaptistarnm , l. . c. . z theol. nicolaides ●● act . 〈◊〉 de eccles. c. . p. . a ostorodius inst . c. . b raddetius in notis ad lib. smigles . p. . ainsworth an . in cant. . cotton in cant. . abulensis ●u loc . etiam si non si●t 〈◊〉 . ainsworth an . in can . . cotton expo . on cant. . . alst. in loc . quod ●rat veluti conclave ecclesi● catholicae . m. mather and mr. tom●on in ans. to mr. he●le . c. . p. . . isa. . . , ass●●tion of 〈…〉 ● . . a epiphanius haer . . al●●s b hieronymus epist. . c diodatus , au in act. . a church . government . answ. to qu. . pag. , . b lb answ. ●● q. . pag. so mr. mather and mr. thomson against mr. herlo , c. . church-power in the church intrinsecally , and not by other ascending or descending derived to any one part by another . constitution and intention . generation and perfection . exercise of power , and power it selfe . a quest. . pag. . . mr. mather and mr. thomson against mr. herle , c. . p. . aristot. . 〈◊〉 . text . a lorinus com . in loc . b cornelius a lap. in loc . c salmeron in loc . d cajetan in loc . e stapleton in antidot . apost . inc . . v. . actor . apost . f diodatus in in ann . on the place . ac . . . budens cōme●t . l●ng . 〈◊〉 . c. l. n●m & demostbenes ss . delegis . mr. mather against mr. herle , c. p. , . a ames medul . theolo . lib. . c. . ch . . lib. . . thes● . b a modest and brotherly answer to mr. herle , c. . p. . . c ib. c. . pag. . d church-government of new-england , answer to q. . pag. , . e mr mather & mr. thomson answer to mr. herle , c. pag. , , sig . mr. mather and mr. thomson , answ . to mr. herle , c. . p. and p. . a mr. mather and mr. thomson answer to mr. herle c. p. . b church-government and church-covenant of new england , answ. to quest . . p. . a augustine , : rac . in ioan. b chrysostom . hom . . hom . . in matth. c beda in act. . . matth. . d basilius homil . ps. . e oecu●enius , in loc . f hieronymus in esa. c. . et c. . in illa adjiciet dominus secundo manu●n . g ireneus , l. . c. . h cornelius a lapide , diversa pro●sus sunt hae e quinque millia , a tribus millibus prima concione conversis , c. . i salmer● in loc . distinctus numerus ab illo c. . k staplet . in antido . apostolic . c. . m lorinus non in tribus millibus computanda haec millia . n lyran. in loc . o cajetan . in loc . a lerinus com in ac . . . b lutherus serm. de eucharistia . c calvin , inst●t . l. c. . d lorinus , ib. e cajetan . com . ib. f corneli . a lapide . a augustin . ● epist. . b calvin , in loc . c luther . serm. de eucharist . d melancthon . lib de usu sacrament . e diodatus . ●nnot . in loc . f lorinus in loc . g sancks . a ba●on . an. . b dorotheus l de vit . & mor. prophet . & apostol . ( b ) salme ron , com . in ac. . d lyran. an . in loc . e eus●bius l. histo . eccle. c . f sanctius com ib. answ to q. . & . g chrysost. in lcc . h athanasi . ● serm. de sem . i nyssenus or at de s. stephano . k lorinus in certum an omnino omnes ( dispersi ) an soli antiquores discipuli . l sanctius ib. m cor. a lapide , ib. n cajeta . in lo. peaceable plea. c. . ad . ob . . pag. . lorinus diodatus , in loc . beda . mr. mather and mr. thomson in their modest and brotherly answer to mr. charles herle , c. . p. . mr. mather , & mr. thomson ● . p. : ames medull . theol. l. . c. . sect . . mr. mather , and mr. thomson ib. p. . m mather and thomson c. . p. , . chrysostome on math. . m. mather . c. pag. . a origen , prefa . in 〈◊〉 . b strabo . l. . c plinius nat . hist. l. . c. . mr. mather , mr. thomson answ . t● mr. h● . l● c. . ● . ● . mr. mather and mr. thomson against herle . c. . p. . a philostratus l. . in vit . apollonii . b chrysostom . in praesa . ad ephes. c plinius l. c. : d alexander ab alexandro . l. . c. . e igna ●i epist. . mr. mather , ans . to mr. herle . c. . p. , . a chrysostom . homil . . ●● popul . antioch . b oecumenius in loc . c cyril . catech. . d esai , . v. e hilarius l. ● . de trinitats . f volaterranus l. . c. . g beza in loc . n diodatus an . i oecumenius in loc . mr. mather , against herle c. ●op . . a ainsworth an . in exo. . b arias montan exo. . . c ainsworth , d rivet . com . in ex. . e lyran in . . par. c. . f caset . ib. g corcel . a lap . com in loc . v. . h diodatus on exod. . i . inter. k chald. para . l hieron . . interpreters chaldee para . a the. fuller , truth maintained pag , . c. . pag. . cap. . pag. ●● . ordination . page . i● , . c. . page . ib. c. . the way of churches of christ in new england . the way of the churches of new england , chap. . sect . a chap. . sect. . a manuser . ibid. . b lb. sect. . a paget . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 b weemes ● . par . c. . pag. . c robinson iustific . pag. , . a robinson 〈…〉 p. , . manus●●● . ibid. a august lib. . c. , , . vos ergo , qua●e sacreliga separatione pacis vin●ulum d●s●●●●pitis ? b pareus com . in matth. . manuscr . apologie cap. . morton ap●log . part ● . . . f●r is sunt generaliter omnes , qui non dederunt sua nomina christo : aug , tom . , ser● . , non tollo idola ethnicorun , quia non habe● in illos potestatē habe● autem cum fuerin● facti christiani : apol. ch . . apology . apol. . a calvin comment . in jer. . , , . b bucan . l●● . com . dis . . ● . . c polyander in synop . pu●io . theol . profess . leyd . dis . thes . . d willet synop . papis●ni . gener . controv . . acosta d● saint . 〈◊〉 , l. . c. . a master robinson just if . of separ . pag. . answer to quest of old england . if the congregation take name & nature from any called pastor , and that without any all deserving in him , their censure worketh clave er●ante , et ex opere operato ; the lord must make valid in heaven , an unjust censure inflicted by his church on earth . a apologie for the churches of new england against the exceptions of ric : bernard . cap. . a altisiodorens . lib. . sim. tract . . in princip . b gul. paris . ract . de sacram . in gen. cap. . sacramenta habent vim impe●●a●or●ā gratiae , ratione or ationum minist●● et ecclesiae . c du●and . . d. . art . . c . d occam . in . quaest . . e gab. biel. d. ar . c. . f aliacensis in . q. . art . . con●l . . g greg. de valent. de offic . sacr. c. . . h vasquez in . thom. tom . . dis . . c. . i joan de lugo de sacram. dis . sect . . & sect . . k henricus quodli . . q. . a romonst . in apol ca. . in caena non obsipnatur pe●catorum re●nissi● , sed tantum ●●nsequente● una cum christ● morte , cujus effectus illa obsignatio est , illam ●lim obsignatam fuisse comme moratur ac praedicatur . b episcop . dis . . thes . . c socinus de officio ●omini christs cap . d smalcius disp . . contra ●rautzium pag. . fabulae sunt aliquam esse internam eff●caciam in baptisme . a calvin insti ut . lib. cap. sect. . b beza quaest . & resp quaest . . christianos tu●n a reliquis hominibus sejungtt , tum in●e● se quasi unum sub codem cap●●e corpus consociat . c pareus . vrsin . catech. quae . . art. . symbolum ingressus & receptionis in ecclesiam . d p●s●ator , loc. . th●s . . e wallaeus in syn●ps . purior . theol. dis . . thes. . f t●len . syntag . dis . . thes. . g system . theol. loc . ca. symbolum , quo recipimur in cae●um filiorum dei. h answer to qwest . of old england . i answer to qwest . of old england . a quest. . ibid. a socinus , per baptismum non confirmatur ●ides ( uti dicunt evangelia ) cum per baptismum non quidem obsignetur , sed tantum adu●nbre●ur peccato●um ●emissio● ad obsignationem e●●n requi●●tur rei pr●batis & d●cumentum aliqu●d , ●ujusm● li nihil praestat ceremonia , & r●●us iste . quantumvis sacer , quod ad pe●●ato●um 〈◊〉 a●●tnet , sed tantum ill●m ve●●is i●n exp sita ablutione sua adu●nbrat & quodam●●d● del●●a● . b smalcius dis . . cont . frantz 〈◊〉 . ● . c catech●s . palat. d confess●an . , . e synod derd●a●●● . . sect . . deus usu sacra●●nti poll●●●tis seu p●omiss●s ●pus gra●● preducit ad sinem et persic● . f episcopius dis . . t●es . , . g ●en icus welsingius de ●ffi● . ●om . ch●ist pag. . remessi● pe●●a●●wn n●n ●●signa●● , sed significatu● . h remenst . apol. ca. . pag tantu● significat professionem 〈◊〉 & ejusdem cul●us quo christo cum d●●●● , adhaerent & solemn●ter testantur . answ to the . q arg. . a am●s ●as . c●●se . l. . c. . . . a morton apologia de no●is r●cl . ca. . ●at . . pag . b doct. glorianus lib. de schismat . pag. . c calvin com . ibid. d pareus com . ibid. b nazian . . ( a ) s●●● . athanas . c cyrill . 〈◊〉 . ca●●ch . . sy●●b . d estius . l. d●st . . s . ad●●tam ●●cte instituen●●●● . e davenin● . de pa●e e●●l . ● act . pag. . d●ci . p●tt● , charity mistaken , cap. , . sect . . pag. . g bell. de eccle. l. . c. s. . multa sum de fide quae non sunt necessaria ad salutem h camero . de eccl. pag. , . i beza volu . opusc . . de notis eccl. pag. . k calvin . instit . lib. . cap. . . l occam dial . pag. . lib. . cap. . semper ●●unt aliqu● catholici qui in vera fide ( de necessari● ad salutem ) explicite permanebunt . a vincentius lyrinens advers . 〈◊〉 . . denique quid unquam concilioium d●cretis e●is● est ( ecclesia ) nisi ut quod an●●a simpli●●●e●●●e l●●●tar , 〈◊〉 idem posted diligentius ●●d●etur . b bellar de ●●ne auto● . l. . c. can●●lia cu● desin●unt non 〈◊〉 u 〈◊〉 ●sse in●allib●l● . ve●tatis , sed declarant c scotus in i ●l ● . q. t. a vigilius martyr . l. . c. b pareus in prolegomen . in comment . in hos. . peza vol . opul p . amesius de c●ust● . l. . c. . q . becanus . part de v●tu●i . theolog . c. . q. . estius l. . d. q. . suarez de trip. disp . virt . theolo . . sect . thomas . q . art . . o●cam dialog . p. . l. . c. . ●●ac . ● moratius de fide dist . . sect . n. . . doctor potter charitie mistaken , c. . s. . pag. . voetiu . de●p . cans . papa●s● . robinson lust ●s● . pag. . pareus in jere. c. , , , &c. robinson justifi . pag. . pag. , . a bellarmine de ve● bo dei lib. . cap . b binnius tom . . conc●l . fel. . just. fic . pag. , . robert coachman , the cry of the s●o●e , sect . . pag. . ● . master coach-mans cry of the stone . sect. pag. . just if pag. . a cor. . ● b matt. . c sphes . . a gual●her com . in loc . b calvin com . c bullinger com●nent pa●ke●us de p●lit . eccles lib. . cap. n. . cot. . . at loquitur de infidelibus pau●● , apud quos lnec legis ●ultusque der , ne● ver● fidei nec evangelii vel fundamenti rudera erant . d sch. meyer . e se● . meyer . m robinson 〈◊〉 . pag. , . ●ag . . pag. . pag. . pag. . 〈◊〉 . of separation . pag. . a pet●●s bert●u● de ap●st●●a sanct ru●n , pag. . . b coll●cut . hagiensi● , pag. 〈…〉 illud ●ean qu●● dedisti ●ihi 〈◊〉 cust●divi . respondent resutari c●nfecutione ( ●de 〈◊〉 possibil●●ate ●p●st 〈◊〉 ) ver●is illis 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c armin. 〈◊〉 . pag ● . d socinus pr●●ect . theol●g . cap. pag. , cap. pag . e theoph. ni●●laid . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . de 〈◊〉 . cap. . pag. . & cap. pag. , . f amesius in 〈◊〉 art . cap. . fuse pag. , . pag. ●● coachman cry of the stone . pag. . iustif. p. . a amesius his fresh suite against ceremonics . b . ball his answer to m. cann . par . . pag. . c reynold de idololatria lib. . cap. . d bilson of chri. ar. subject . part . pag. , . e ball lo● ci● , f ambros. commen . in luc. lib. . cap. . signa est ecclesia quae fidem respuat , nec apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat , ne quālabē perfidiae possit aspergere , deserenda est . the way of the churches of christ in new england . chap. . sect. . a oecolampadius in epist. b zuinglius lib. . pag. , . c beza quaest . & ●esp lib . nequaqu●n tamen facile dixc●●m , quempiam aliena fide servari , nequis hoc peri●de accipiat , ac si d x●rim , parentum fidem imputari infantibus , quasi aliena side credentibus ; quod quidem non minus falsum & absurdum fuerit , quam si dixerim , quempiam posse aliena anima vivere , aut alterius sapientia sapere . d doct. morton his appeale , lib. . cap. . sect . . pag. . chap. . sect. . . commandement , exod. . answers to the . questions sent from old england to new england . a sam . . revel . . . psal. . . prov. . . . esay . . cant. . . cor. . . deut. . . psal. . . micah . . a episcopius disp . priv . . coller . . ritum fuisse tantu●n temporarium ex nullo praecepto iesu christi●surpa●um . b hen●icus slatius declar . a per. pag. . c somnerus tract . de baptis . d socinus de baptis . c. . par . . . . the way of the churches of christ in new england , chap. . sect. . author of the treatise of the way of the churches of christ in new england . chap. . sect. . quaest. . episcopius . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 robinson , the peoples pea for the exercise of prophecying against mr. yates , arg. . pag. . a episcop . disp . . . b theophil . nicolaides tract . demissiono minist . cap. . cap. . d remonstr . in confess . cap. . sect . . . e socinus tract . de ecclesia cap. . pag. . f ostorodiut inst. cap . raddecius in not . simgle●ii pag. . ipse textus doce● de solis apostoli● sermonem esse . g profes . leyd . eens . confess . cap. . sect . . . h calvinus comment . in rom. . i beza ann●● . de ministerio vel ordinariovel extraordinarie debet intelligi . k pareus de ordinaria etiam vocatione debet intelligi . l arminiani in apolog. cap. . fol. . quid obstat cur in casu necessitatis non potest ● fideli aliquo , infa●s aqua ting●● out inter ●deles cana domini non celebrari posse● ? m socinus tr●c . de eccles . pag . n smalcius disp de minist . sect . . o gerardus tom . . loco comm . de ministerio ecclesiastico . c. . sect . . n. . pag. . p smalcius in refut . thes . franzii par . . disp . . pag. . non negamus ex ist a consuctu●●ine primitivae ecclesiae apost●licae consequii ●llud etiam nunc fieri posse — sed hoc est in questione , an ejusm●di constitutio sit prorsus necessaria ad constituendum verbi dei ministerium . q andr. raddecius in notis ad lib. smiglecii pag. . r remonst . in apolog. cap. . sol . . missionem esse necessariam concedimus necessitate ordinis & decori . a robinson peoples plea , arg. . pag. , . b chemnitius loc . com . part . . cap. de eccles. pag. . c ostorodius in instit. cap. . pag. . d nicolaides in defens . tract . socini de ecclesia & ministerio , cap. . pag. . e socinus tract . de eccles pag. . peoples plea for prophecying , pag. . plea pag. . . pag. , . calvin praelect . in ierem. . . pag. . robinson , pag. . a remonst . in confess . cap. . sect . . b episcop . disp . . thesi. , . c socinus tract . de ecclesi . per totum & pag. , . d nicolaides in desens . socini tract . de eccles . cap. . pag. . e gastius de cata-baptistarum erroribus lib. . pag. . it is a vaine thing to say that teachers of all israel , remaining in israel were non-residents , that is , pastors not attending their charge . a iustific . pag. b confess . of separatists , art. . c bellarmin . desacr . ord . lib. . cap. . d concil . trident. sess. . cap. . e hosius in confes . polonica tit . . f martinus ledesma in . qu●st . . art . . ad . . g pet. a soto de sacram . ordinis lect. . h toletus com . in ioan. . an . : i cajetanus comment . in ioan. . ideo hoc loco instituitur & promulgatur sacramentum poenitentiae . k cyrillus lib. . cap. . l chrysostome in ioan. homil . . m joan. de lugo , tomo de saram . paenit disp . . sect . . n suarez disp . . de censura sect . . not . . o sanchez in decalog . lib. . c. . n. . p aegidius coniuk de sacr. disp . . n. . q vasquez tom. de excom . dub . . n. . r pano●mit . in dic● . a nobis , &c. n. . s avila de censur is part . . cap. . disp . dub. . t sylvester verbo subsolvo . n. . u ioan. episcop . rossens . de potest . papae in temporabus lib. . cap. . x peoples plea , pag. , . pag. . pag , , . pag. , , , . calvin com. in act. . pag. . a iunius annot . in locum apocalyps . b cooper on revel . . c pareus comment in apocalyps . cap. . pag. , . d iunius annot . in cap. . e paraeus in locum . f napper comment . on the revel . ch . . par. . . pag. . pag. . and . pag. . a irenaus adversus hares . lib. cap. . b fusebius , bistoria eccles l. . cap. . tertullian . cyrill . chrysostom . theophylact. robinson , pag. , . par●us com . ibi . pauls presbytery , chap. . pag. , . pag . . a stapleton apud whittaker . de sac . script . authorit . l. . c. . arg . . sect . bellarmine , valentinian gretserus . b transenius harmon . c. . c cajetan com . in loan . . in hoc ab ho●nine non accipio . d toletus in . ioh. . tom . . e rivetus tom . . contrav . trac . . q. . f whittakerus to . . desac . scrip. authorit . lib. . c. ●r . . g bucer in ioan. . de testimonio baptistae . h calvinus in art . . v. , . i theapl●y● . in a●t ● ibid. k chrysost in ioan. hom . . l beda in ioan. cap . m ambrosius in ● . tim. n occam . d●ale . l. . ca. par . . & c. . probatu● quod pap● canonice electus manens papa potest errare a fide & bareticari , quindecem ration●bus . o gerson de infallibilitat papae , consid . p robinson . pag . . q synod of england . r ambrosius com . in eph. ut ●resecret plebs & multiplicaretur , omnibus inter initia concessum est & exangelizare , & baptiza●e . s origenin num. hom . . cap. . t hieronymus comment . in matth. in prcaemi● . u theophylact . in art . . x augustin . contr . faustum , lib. . c. . y coachman . z gerard. loc . com . tom . . de minister . eccles . c. . sect . . n. pag. , . a luthe●us tom . . com. in ps. . fol lat . tradidi● quidem dominus talenta servis . sed non ●●si ●●catis . expecta igitur & ●u donec vocc● is , intereane amb●●s . b fugeni● de - 〈…〉 . c scotus in l. . d q. . d concil●i t●i. d●ntine . s●ss . . cap. . e lodo meratius tom . . trac . de erdi . disp . . sect . . bishops preach not , nor is it essentiall to their office , and therfore papists by contempt call our ministers , predicant preachers , saith gerard , tom . q. . n. pag. . f bellarm. tom . de sacr . ordin . l. . c. . g guliel . estius l . dist . . s. . h aquinas supplem . q. . act . . . i canon . aposto . lic . . . , . . . . k clemens in epist. . ad iacob . manuscript . the way of the churches of christ in new england . in the answ. . quest . . . answ. to the . quest . answ. to quest . . a ar●in . in declar sen. p. b armin. ant●perkins . pag. . qua●nd●u am●r det in ipso●u●n cord●bus vigebit , imped●en . ui ne ●ccedant ● d●o . c remonst●an . confess . c. . sect. . . d episcopius disp . . ch . . e socinus de just●● . ●●l . . quod si a● hac obedientia deficiamus , &c. f smalcius 〈◊〉 in ioan . fol. . answ to . quest . q. . a morton grand imposture . sect . pag. . ar● . . sess. of trent . april . . an. . a bellar. l. . de concil . c. . b harding . article of peters suprema●●e as ●●well saith . c suarez t● . detripl●● . vitr . disp . . de sam ●on● . sect. . num. . d bellarm. de p●n●●f rom. l. . c. . pe●●us in conc●l●● primo 〈◊〉 l●quttur . e harding loco cita● . f 〈◊〉 kerus tom . . contrev c. . responde 〈◊〉 posse colligi ex hoc loco petrum esse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 citio primum : na● constat ante 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quis pri●us 〈◊〉 su● 〈◊〉 evangel●sta tacuit . g gerson t● . . in propos ut●●● . ad ●●ter scbisma . h lyranus in 〈◊〉 . i carthusian in locum . a bellar. l. . de conc . c. . b suarez de tripl . tra . theo. disp . sect . . c pighius l. . c. . d cajetan , de ●uthorit . pap. ● . . also your unofficed prophets may as well denounce judgement against an apo sta● church , as they may publikely preach mercy in the gospel , and s● this is no officiall act of authoritie . the way of the churches of christ in new england . a answorth pag. . . in his animadver . b best . the churches plea. pag. c chap. . ser. . d chap. . sect. . e chap. . ser. . manuscript . . it is true , none should remove from one congregation to another without god goe before them , nor can they change countries without gods warranting 〈◊〉 , gen . . chap. . . but that such removall is a matter of church-discipline , and must be done by a ministeriall power , is unwar●anted by any word of god. a fac de almain de p●testa . eccles . et lav . c. . est congregatio authoritate legitime facta , ad aliquem locu● ex omni statu hierarchico , nulla persona fideli perente audir● exclusa , ad nactandum ea quae concernunt publicam ecclesiae utilitatem et ipsius mares . b ge●s●n de p●test . eccles . d schola pa●s●r● de poust . eccles. pag. . a pastor may propone james the apostles mind , aneut fornication , blood , &c. act. . permodum consilii , as a counsel to some other pastor , but it hath the power of a synodicall decree not from iames , though an apostle , but from the joynt voyces of the synod ; and it is not like that iames as an apostle said , wherefore my sentence is , &c. as an apostle hee should have said as paul doth , what i received of the lord , that i delivered unto you , &c. e answer to . questions ad qu●st . . f bellarmine de concil . lib. . c. . est tantum ( inquiunt ) inquisitie quaedam & dictae sententiae ministratoria et limitata , ita ut tantum valeat decretum concilii quantum valeat ejus raise . g iunius animadversan bellarm . lib. . de concilae . . h bellarm. de concil . authorit . lib. . c. . concilia & scripturae sunt ut raque infallibilis ●●rttatis . i rhemists in art . . . . k lorinus co●●ent . in act. . l grati●n . dis . . in canon . m dist . can decretale● . o gregorius . epist. . p suarez de tripl . virtut . disp . . sect . . men . . ce●●issimum est cencilium genera●e , in quo ●aes●ns adest pontifex , esse infallibilem regulam fidei . q turre●●●m . su●n . de ecclesi . lib. . r bailius catechis . trac . . q. ● . concilia nobis in di●ficultatibus sunt instar ora●ulorum . s ca●etan . t●ac . de author . pontis c. . t 〈◊〉 i● canus de loc . com . l. . c . u 〈◊〉 de ●alent , tom . . disp q. . de objecto fi●● : p●●ct . x almain de potest . eccles . et civ . a . epist. joh . 〈◊〉 . . . b hieronymus co● , lucif . & ●n gal. . c basilius ●● epist. nob● 〈◊〉 dicere licet , quod in hoc , tempore non ●●● , neque princep● , neque prophets , neque 〈◊〉 que oblatio , ●●que incensu●● , ● d athanasius lib. adsali● . 〈◊〉 . agend . e ●ineen●●us lyrinens . ha●s . c. . f occam . dial . pak . . l. ● . c. . g onus ecclesiae , c. . h pra●e pic. miran . orat . ad leon. . i philippus de comin . l. . c. . k gerson de coxil . unius obedient . l genebra●d . chron. l. . an . . pag. . m aventinus annal . boior . l. pag. . n almain . in questio . vesperti . o german . chron. l. . pag. . p aene is silvius epist. . q platina in bonifac. . r fasciculus rerum expetendarum . s sleidan com . l. . t can. . q. . ne quis in propria causa judicet . see also how great romanists have made councels a terrour to wicked popes and vicious prelats , as fanormitan decretal . d. elec . signif . cusan . concord . l. . c. . c. . c. . c. . ocoam . dialog . pa● . ch . . c. almain . vesp . question . w almain de authorit . eccles . cap. ult . prop . x almain ibid. propos . . si enim ligata fores dextera manus , aut ad mutum imaginationis pertinaciter nolles vacare defensient co●poris , apud simstram tune defendendi corpus tota residebit authoritas . e●si una pars provincia , inimicis volentibus earn destruere , nollet suceu●rere , quis dubitat reliquam partem , quamvis sit minor numero , pro tunc habere authoritatem totam provinciam defendend● , &c. chap. . sect. . bellarm. de pontif. rom. l. . c. . saith the councell of chalcedon , is of no force . azorius instit . moral . to . . l. . c. . a lawfull councell going a naile breadth from the instruction of the pope , may erre . a concilium constant. sess . . b concilium basil. sess . and sess . . c gerson de eccles . potest . consid . d fran za barell tract . de schism . e review of the counsell of trent , l. . c. . by a french papist . f bellarmiu . de concil . l. . c. ● . g concilium lateran . sess . . & . ( a ) platina in g●egorio . . and because councells are against papists and popes , therefore they have taken the sting out of councells , as ge●a●dus prove●● , to . pag. . i review of the councell of trent , l. . ● . . k bellarmin . de concil . 〈◊〉 . l bellarmin . . c. . quemadmodum 〈◊〉 annis illis . ecclesia sine conciliis generalibus incolwnis mansi● , sice●iam potu●sse● aliis c c c. & ●ursus aliis dc . atque aliis mille permanere . m costerus in enchir●d . de pon●if pag . n bellarmin . de pontif. r m. l. . c. . o pererius com . in exo. . disp . . n. . p calvin . instit . l. . c. . sect . . q episcopius disp . . thes . r remonst . in apol. c. . fol. . s answorth animadver . pag. . remon . . decisi●nem factam in synodo non leviter habendam , quin & merito inclinare animos nostros ad acriorem decisionis factae considerationem , sed ut ea cuiquam pros●ribat aut diffentientem cogat ad assensum aut obsequium , ratio non permi●tis . t theoph. nicolaid . in refu . trac . de eccl . c. . f. . hac ratione synodica errores aut controversias non ●olli , sed tantum vim inferri conscientiis nostris . u smalcius in refut . lib. de errorih● . arrian . . c. . fol. . x answer to the . quest . so the papists . pighius lib. . c. . de eccles . hierarch . calleth generall councells , constantini magni inventum , a devise of constantine without any warrant of the word of god ; and iohn weemes of craghton denyeth councells to be necessary by any commandement of god , de regis primatu , l . c. . pag. . cleme●s the seventh said , counsels are dangerous , if the popes power be called in question . z matth. . . matth. . . joh. . . act. . . . cor. . . and . . , . gal. . . coloss. . . . a col. . . b thes. . . . heb. . . c i. evit . . . d mal. . . e nazienzen ad procopium epist. . alias . ego , si vera scribere oporiet , ita am●no affectus sum , ut omnia ●piscoporum concilia fugiam , quoniam nulli●s concilii fine us 〈◊〉 faustuinque vidi . f panormitan de electr●ne , c. significast● . g augustine contra do●●tist . l. . c. . priora concilia a pos●erioribus cor●●gi h petrus de monte in monarchia concil . terti● . nu . . manuscrip . a amesius , l. . c. ● . n. . de conscient . manuscript . manuscript . a morton apol. par . . c. . pag. . b russinus l . ●ist . c. . c hieronymus de loc . hele●o . d nazianz. seimon . de cypriano . e augustin l. . contr . julian . f nazianz. epist. . ad basilium . g damasc. de fid . orthod . l. . c. . h theodoret. hist. l. . c. . i robinson iustific . of separat . pag . a clemens in constitut . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . b athanasius . c lactantius inst it . l. . c. . d tertul. e procopius in arca. histor . f ta●itus in tiberio , de●rum in ●u●iae d●●s curae sant . g l. . god. de ●eb . ged . juris juran●ts contempia religio satis de●● ultorem habet . h in lege nemo codice de pagan . i ambr●sius epist. . k augustin . epist. . l gregorius de valentia to . . disp . . punc . . q. . de infidelita te arg . . m d●●andus . santen . d. . q. . 〈◊〉 . . n suarez , de 〈…〉 disp . . sect . n. . o antonius . p. . c. . p gregorius . epist. . q robinson justif . of separa . pag. . r robinson . justif . pag. . king. . s beza de haeretic . a magist . pun . pag. . . t remonst . in confess . c. . sect. . qui haereticidie aut simili tyrannidi aut persecution● ullo modo patrocinentur , a m●●issimo christi spiritu prorsus alieni sunt . w epis●●pius . disp . . thes. . x professores leidens . in sua cens . . id socinianae doctrinae c●rsentaneum quidem est . y nicolaus vedelius ar●a . arminianis . par . . l. . c. . z joan. gerard. . . de magistrat . politico . n. q. . n. . pag. . . a socinus de off●c . ●om . christ. c. . b nicolaides defe●● . tract . de eccles . c . fol. . . . c ostor●dius christ. relig . c. . d episcopius disp . . . thes. . . e henr. slatius apert . doct . f. . f ostorodius inst . relig . c. . g cateches . ra●cov●ens . de proph . mun. i. christi c. . f. . h smal●ius 〈…〉 . disp . . pig . . acut● ejus●nadi d●lectio est quae interficere ali u●n permit●● et jubet . i v●d . socin . in defens . sent v●●es . p. ● raccoviensi adversus jac. paeleol . de mag . p ●n pag. fol. . k beza . 〈◊〉 . de 〈◊〉 is a magist . puniend . advers ma●tin ●●lling vol. . ●pus pag. . & se● . l junius advers . 〈◊〉 . edit . heidelbu● . an . . p. . m bucanus loc . com . . n zanchius , . . m●s● . de 〈◊〉 . o perkias . in cath●l . reformat . convo . . c. . pag. . p daneus in etlic christian. l . c. . q bulling . 〈◊〉 . . fol. . r professo . leyden ●s c●nsa re non . c : sect . . s cyprian ad de 〈◊〉 . si quid 〈◊〉 tuis nu 〈◊〉 & poteslatis es● , ipsi in 〈…〉 su●gent , ipsi se majestate sua defendent : pude●t te ●os celere , quos ipse de sendis , pudeat tutelam ab ipsis sparare , quos tu 〈◊〉 . t 〈…〉 . u 〈◊〉 in 〈…〉 p. : x 〈◊〉 ad campian . pag ▪ . y augustine cp●st . . ●d 〈…〉 . ad 〈…〉 . z beza de la 〈…〉 . punten● . pag. , . a professors of i ciden in censur . confess . remonst . c. . sect . . b 〈◊〉 . histori . l. . c. c chrysostom . ●om . . in matth. . d chrysolog . serm . . e augustine in lib. quaest . ex matth. . f theophylac . com . in loc . matth. . g beza in anno● . mar. matth. . . h erasmus in locum eundem . deus non per●ittit haeretico be llis consumi similiter neque propter mal●s cogitatienes vult deus exscindi hominem : si mattheus excisus esset ex hac vita , cum esset zizanium , simul etiam excisum esset fr●nent●n quod postea ex ipso erat oriturum . a tannerus , . ● . b phil. gamachaeus com . in . q. . c. . non hic opus gladio imperatoris , sed hamo piscatoris . ( a ) quicunque et l. haeretic● . et l. manichei god. de haeretic . as tertullian in scorpiac . c. . haeetict compelli debent , non alli ci , et duritia vincenda , non suadenda ; which saith , that hereticks are otherwise to be delt with then those who never imbraced the christian faith . c covar●uvias in regula peccat . p. . sect . e gamacheus loc . cit . f tannerus in . q. . art . dub. . g malderus de virtut . theolog. q. . art . . h scotus in a. dist . . i molina de just . et jure tract . . disp . . k alphons a castro de puni●i . baeretic . l. . c. . l malderus loc . cit . m coninck . de artib . supernatur disp . . de infidelit . dub . . n . n lorca in . q. . art . . o aquinas . q. . art . . p cajetan . in thomam . ibid. d ( d ) greg. de valent. in . q. . art . . punct q extravan . pauls iiii. decret . l . 〈◊〉 . de de iudae●s . r malderus in q. . de insidel . cap. . s gal. . . t cap. qui sincera . et cap. de iudaeis dist . . u codt . de iudaeis . zanch. com . in phil. . a turrecrema . qui paratus est tenere contrarium , li. sum . de eccle . p. . c. . b scotus ignorantia crassa , d. . ar . . c canus l. . de loc . c. . affectata ignoran . facit pertinacem . d malderus crassa ignorantia relinquit ho●ninem paratum obedire ecclesia idecque non exclude●et objectum formale fidei . de virtut . theol. in . de haeres . q. . ad . men . . e a cost●o de punitio hare● . li. . c. . f pirerius com in rom. v. disp . . g adrianus quolib . . punct . ad . . h vasquez in . q. . ar . , . disp . . c. . i pezantius ib. disp . . g malderus 〈◊〉 . t●co● . q. art . . disp . . h ambros. l. de paradis . c. . a andr. raddeccius in ne●s ad l●brun smiplec●● pag. . & in defens . tract de ●● sfi. pag. . b s●alcius in ●●fut . thes. frantz . dis . pag. . c r●mons●r . in ap lo●● . s l . . and and fpis●●p●us disp . thes . n. d hugo cardinalis com . in esa . e beda in locum . f toletus luc . g cyrillus . h salme●en . i gloss. ordin . annum placabilem , id est , fidem & salutem hominum . k procopius in ●arnationis domini tempus innui● . l hieronymus diem 〈◊〉 , ●d est , damnatio●●s roman●s . m lyra , annus dominicae passionis in quo placa●●s est gene●i 〈◊〉 . a survey of discipl . c. ● b far●us com in rom. c. . dub . . in appendic ad fol. arg resp . . c puschius l c. . de ●ita constantin● , ●es istis episcopi in ecclesia , ego extra ecclesiam seu ●emplum a deo s●●n constitutus . d gul apollo 〈…〉 . vedelium de episco . constan . c . nu . . e salcobrigiens . p. . f camero . praelect . . . p. . . g paraeus com . in rom. . in append . ad du● . . p●arogn●t . . h salc●b●ig . pap . i 〈…〉 p 〈…〉 . . c . k dan . dan. . , . luk. . . rem . pet. , . &c. tim . . l col. . . ● thes. . , . l ●v . . matth . . , . cor. . , , . tim . . tim. . . cor. . , . cor. . . a m. anton. de domi . archie . spala●ens . l. . c. . n. , , . seq . b gulielm . apollon . de jure magist●a . in sacr . pa● . ● . c. & . b esa. . ● . revel . . . psal. . , , . psal. . v. , , . c august . con●r . liter . petilian . l. . c. contr . cr●sco . lib. . c. . d bell●●m . de pontif . rom. l. . c. . e lysimach . nicanor , epist. to the cove nan of scotland , pag. . f junius eccles . l. . c. . g guliel . apollon . de jure magist . contr . vedeli . par . . ● . . pag. . h m. antkon . de domi . archiepis . spala● . de rep . eccle . l. . c. . sect . . i tilenus syntag. pag. . disp . . thes . . k daneus polit . ch. l. . c. . l bucan loc . com . ● . ▪ ● . m professor . leidens . d. . thes . . o ames . de conscien . l. . c. . amesius medul . theol. l. . c. . 〈◊〉 entm est res , aut causa 〈◊〉 ecclesiastica qu●n aliqua ratiene pertineat ad jwisdictionem mag●stratus , neq●ulla est 〈◊〉 tam secula●● , modo ab ecclesiae memb●o p●aestetur qum qua●enus observant●am e●ga 〈◊〉 resp●●●t ▪ per●mere possi● ad ecclesiasticam 〈◊〉 ●nem . p martyr . loc . com . elas . . loc . q parkerus de ●olue . a eccles . l. ● . . ● . r professor . 〈◊〉 . ●●col . disp . . thes. , , . parkerus . ecclesia visibilis , quanquam externa , ad regn●● christ●●●leste per●●ne● . s anthon. de dom. arch●epis●● . spalatens . l . c. . . . t joan. major parisien . lib. . sent . dist . . q. . w sp●l●tens de ●ep . eccles . l. . ● . . n. . x guli●l n. apollonius pastor 〈◊〉 magist. par . . c . pag. ● , . y august epist ad ro●●faccom . . a survey of discipline . c. b iunius c●nt . . l. . c. . not . . c gul. apolon . de jure magistr . par . . c. pag. . d ruffinus eister . eccles l c. ● . e act. conc . clalced . act . distinct. . gerardus . distinct. . a augustin ad bonisac . comit . circa epist. . quia vero etiam rex est ser vit , leges justa praecipientes , & contraria prohibentes , conventente rigore sanciend● , sicut servivit rex ninivitatum , universam civitatem ad placandum dominum compellendo . b august . l. . co●r . epist . gaudentii . c. . quamdiu vos non tenetis ecclesia● , quam praenunciaverunt piscatores , apestoli plantaverunt , tam diu reges qui eam tenent , rectissime ad s●am curam indicant per●nere , ne ●os adversus eum rebelletis impune . c imperat constitut. ● . d in c●dice l. leg ●unctus populu● . c. le s●m . trinit . e c●d●ce leg . . synod chaicedenensis de ●●de christiana justa cap●sitinnes a 〈◊〉 a ●●●●d 〈◊〉 , per nost●a decreta statuta sunt . f iustinian . novell . . c. . g novell . . c. . h l. . de s●●● . tr●n . i wolsius tom . lect . moral . pag. . k bellarmin . l . de la●cis c. . l suarez in opuscul . l. . de p●●mat . sum●● pontif c. . n d●s●●on . . si 〈◊〉 . o d●st . . inc . qu●ties . q. . p in cap●●e qu● di●●et . q august . cont . epist. gauden . l. ● . c. . r apollonius de jure magist. ●oc . cit pag. . s didoclavius dad . caldern ●●d in altars damas●cnode commentatus ●egi●s , pa. , . d calvinus inst●● . l. . c. . sect . . e amesius to n. in bellarm . 〈◊〉 at . c. . n. ● . f junius ar● nad . in ●ellarm . de concil . l . c. . 〈◊〉 . . desiciente conjunctione magist 〈…〉 aliquid ecclesia extra ordine●n sace●● , q●●d ordina●ie non potest , & ●●ntra desiciente ecclesia a suo officio , potest magi●●●atus 〈◊〉 ordinein procurare , ut ecclesia ad 〈…〉 , ●d enim juris communis est , extraordinar●is mai●s remedia eti am extra ordinem adhiberi posse . g calderwood in 〈◊〉 damas●en● , pag. . h elizabeth stat . ● . ● . ● . i lib. . si 〈◊〉 ● . de leg●●●s princ●p . k paraeus . comment . in r ●● . . dul . . mappend p●● . . arg . . l calderwood 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . da●nas . pag. . lance● . andreas . m tortur . torti . . dicimus regem gubernare ecclesiastica , sed non ecclesiastice . n burbilius in vindic . tortu a tc●ti . pa. . non dicit ( ep. sc. eliensis ) primatum spiritualem , sed primatum quoad spiritualia , de be ●i regibus omni jure . o hen. salcobrigiensis in becano . baculo pag. . p pag. q calderwood in altar . damas pag. , , . & seq . r survey of discipl c. . pa. , . s episco . fliens . tortur . terti pag. . in ethnico e●st tera potestas temporalis , idque sinc ordine ad potestatem ecclesiasticam . item rex quivis own de ethnico christianus fit , non perdit terrenum ju● , sed acquirit jus nov●●● . itidem own de christiane fit sicut ethnicus , vigore sententiae , ami●●● novum jus quod acquisiverat , sed retinet terrenum jus in temporalibus , quod sacrat illi proprium , priusquam christianus fieret . t voetius de potest . ecclesi . tract . w 〈◊〉 . f●l 〈◊〉 . ●● . . x 〈…〉 . y anselm● 〈◊〉 matth. . a hilarius ●●ntra 〈…〉 b●pist b bernard b●p●st . ad fu●en . c 〈…〉 d . . . e g●●son . bucer de 〈…〉 . pag. ● . f amesius in 〈…〉 . de ● . . ● . . g ●●an weem●s de 〈◊〉 . de 〈…〉 pag. . . seq . h the kings 〈◊〉 for the service b●ok of 〈◊〉 land , a● . . i vvee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . daplex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est , un● 〈◊〉 & . 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 , alia 〈◊〉 s●u imperialis in senatu , illa pastorum , haec p●incipis est . k bancroft s●●na● pauli cruce● . . p . l calderwood in altar . damas. pag. . m bancroft pag. . n pag. . & . o parker . de polit . eccl . l . c. . p stapleton de princip doctrinal . l. . c q becanus . . opise cont . spalat . l. . de repub . christi . c. . r parkerus de politeia eccles . l. . c. . s raynold . collat . cum hartio . c . divis . . t greg. magnus in psalme pen●tent . u alta● da 〈◊〉 pag. . . x alta● damas● pag. ● . ch●on . . , . a junius de ●en●il●animad . l. . c. . a●t . . b altar . damas●●n pag. . c gulied . apollonius de ju●e magist● . ●nsa●●●● c. . pag. . . d sibrandus c●nt●a . pag. . . e muketus de polit●ia potest . pag. f nico. ● wedelius in tractatu de epis●●pain constan●●ni . g becanus ●n ●pi●s●ul . . . de 〈◊〉 . ●●g . l. . 〈◊〉 . n . . h abulensis q . & . i 〈…〉 ● k 〈…〉 c. ● n. . l junius 〈◊〉 . . l. . c. . a●t . . m spalato de repub eccles l. c. ● . ▪ . n u●●tius . tract . de potest . ●●cles o am●sius 〈…〉 . de concil . c. . ad . . p calderwood 〈…〉 . pag. , . &c. q professor . leydens . 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 . . r gerardus de magistr . polit . to . . n. . pag. ●● . s junius chron. . . t becanus in 〈◊〉 . de 〈◊〉 . n 〈…〉 . u suarez 〈…〉 . . n. . u suarez opused . . 〈…〉 . n. ● . x becanus de prima●● reg●o l. . ob . . pa. . * note . a suarez l. . de prima . pontif . c. n. . b cajetan cōment . . paic . . v. . supren●a duo capita judicio●um decernit . c paraeus cōment . ad ro● . . dub . . d paraeus loc . citat . e cicero ● tus●ul . nulla tam fera . tam 〈◊〉 nis unq●am natio fu● , quam non unbue●it religio ●●r●n . object . object . * note . a later ● pauli . ad carol. . imperatorem . apud wolsium tom . ● . lect. memor . pag. ● . b nicol. in epist. ad mi●ha . impera . c. ul● na●n dist . c henric. blyssemius tract . de eccles p. . a tertullian de idol . c. . christus gloriam seculi & sibi & sais alienam esse judicavit . b origen homil . . in matth. c hilarius ad auxe●t . d chrysostom . hom . . in joan. christus fugit ( diadema ●errenum ) ut oftenderes suum regnum nullis secularibus rebus indigere . e ambrosius . ●om . . . in dei rebus sollicitus ( sit episc●pus ) a secul●i negotio alienus , non enim convenitunum , duplicem habere potestatem . f august . trin . cos. in joan. g survey of discipline , cap. . pag. , . h fenner 〈◊〉 . pa 〈◊〉 i 〈…〉 . pag. . k 〈…〉 . p. 〈◊〉 . l 〈…〉 . pa. ● m ●span . . v. . n sonnius ap . t●n . . pag. o survey of discipl cap. ● . pag. . emanuel sa. in 〈◊〉 cle●●cus spake like a j●suite , the ●ebellion of a clerg● man , against a king , is no ●●eason because hee is no subject ▪ the jesuits vow out of julius the third his bull , qua con 〈…〉 jesu●tarum , c. . l. . de vita ●gnat . laiolae . all people are subject to the pope : we 〈◊〉 beside the communitie of the three ordinary vowes be bound by a more specialty to w●●●soever the present pope and all others hereafter shall command , &c. and that is as mr. all●n principall of the colledge of jesui●● at rheimes i● a solomne oration , it is 〈…〉 kill kings . p haiminsfieldius 〈…〉 q arniseus de 〈…〉 . r baleus in 〈◊〉 pag. s baleus , . t 〈◊〉 shardius in 〈…〉 . go●stad par . . pag. . u sleidan peri●d . . c . x lampadius part . pag. . y catalogus test●um v●●ita . t is lib. seculo . pag. , . z apologia l●dov . . contra calumnias joan. papae . a in decret . . dist . c. cum ad verum & canone duo sunt . b stephanus aufrerii . c hieronymus pa●●us in 〈◊〉 qui 〈…〉 pract●●●●●●c●llariae ap 〈◊〉 . d iustm●an lib . & . de off praes praes ap●ric . e bell●●mm de clericis c. . f inno●●ntius iii. decret . . t●t ● . de major . 〈…〉 . imperium non paeest tace●datio , sed sudsubest , & 〈…〉 . g bonifacius . extra de 〈◊〉 & obed . c. una●n ●●n●●m . ●mnes christ sideles de nec●ssit●● sa ●uis sub●●nt pon●fici rom●an 〈…〉 habet , & ●mnes ●u●●cat , 〈…〉 . h 〈…〉 . i 〈…〉 . k 〈…〉 . l 〈…〉 . m 〈…〉 . n 〈…〉 . o 〈…〉 . p silvest . in concil . 〈◊〉 . c. . q gratian ● . c. nemo judicabit . r 〈…〉 . s 〈…〉 . t 〈…〉 . w . quest . . x cod l . leg . . an●●emius , cler●●● ex●●ane● . y cod. l. . ●●● . . leg . . z cod. l. . ●●● . . leg . . anthemius praesi lal● ju●isd● ctio . . &c. a caus●n . . ca. . decret . grego . l. . tit . . c. . clem. . b luitprandus in vir●s pontif in agat●ore . c ext●a . de major & obed . c●unam . in gloss. d clement . pastor de re ju dic . e c. fundamen . de elect . in . f c. solit extrav . de major . & obed . g in l. . ceremoni . eccles . rom. ●t . . the way of the churches of christ in new england . a answer to the . question . b dionys. halicarnass . l. antiquit . optiene cuiquam ex ●ulgo data , ut que●n vellent sibi pa●●onu●n el●ge●ent c terentius in eunu●ho●e mi●● patronum cupie . i ●a● . d concilium melevitanu●n ●n . . e concilium car●bagin . . c. . an . . f hosp●nian de orig . te●nplo . to . . de orig . honor . eccles . c. . g a●entinus in 〈…〉 . . a●al . h fdvar . dido . lav . in 〈…〉 . p. . i origen . 〈◊〉 . in levit. is eligendus ex omni populo qui praestantior , qui doct●● , qui sanctier . k abb. decius & l rubi . in c. quanto de jud . & in d. ca. de 〈◊〉 . m glossa in c. piae menus . q. . n anton de butr. & o andr. barbat . in d. c. quando . p f●ancis . suarez 〈…〉 & statu 〈…〉 de 〈…〉 ● . q ma● . an 〈…〉 spalate● de 〈…〉 . . pag. ● . r a●brosius l. ● . epist. ●● . epist. ●● . 〈…〉 , quod pa●peru ●●●● est . s sy●ol . 〈…〉 . c . t synod . braca●ens . ● c. . u ●span anal. ●o . x gregorus 〈…〉 . y 〈…〉 . z c●●decernimus 〈◊〉 . . . a altar . dam●s● . pag. ● . b gera●dus loc . co●n . . de min●ster . eccles . sect pag . . c suarez to●n . de vi●tut & stai● relig . l. . de sinon . c. n. , . . d spalat●●sten●error . suarez c. n . ( ● ) 〈◊〉 . q . e hospinian . de origi . templ . de or●g . bonor . eccles . c. . c. . f justiman . n●vel . . c. 〈◊〉 & c. . nov. . g a●●● da●nas . pag. . h cartwright . reply , ● pa●t . pag. . i amesius , de c●nscient . l. . c. q . n. , . k gul. ap l 〈…〉 . in sac a sect . c. . pag. , . l athanasius epist ad solitariam ●●●am agentes . uhille canon ut a palatio mittatur is , qu● sutu● us est epis●opus : m alta● da●●● . par . . n 〈…〉 o chap. . sect. . a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god, and agreed upon by the elders, and messengers of the churches, assembled in the synod at cambridge in new england, to be presented to the churches and generall court for their consideration and acceptance in the lord, the eighth moneth, anno . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text w in the english short title catalog (wing p ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing p estc w ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god, and agreed upon by the elders, and messengers of the churches, assembled in the synod at cambridge in new england, to be presented to the churches and generall court for their consideration and acceptance in the lord, the eighth moneth, anno . mather, richard, - . [ ], , , [ ] p. printed by s.g. at cambridge in new england, and are to be sold at cambridge and boston, [cambridge, mass.] : . marginal notes. drawn up by richard mather. cf. holmes, minor mathers, another issue of a. generally known as the cambridge platform. reproduction of original in huntington library. eng congregational churches -- massachusetts -- cambridge -- early works to . congregational churches -- government. a w (wing p ). civilwar no a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god: and agreed upon by the elders: and messengers of the churches assembled in congregational churches in new england. cambridge synod f the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the f category of texts with or more defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god : and agreed upon by the elders : and messengers of the churches assembled in the synod of cambridge in new england . to be presented to the churches and generall court for their consideration and acceptance , in the lord . the eight moneth anno psal : . how amiable are thy tabernacles o lord of hosts ? psal : . . lord i have loved the habitation of thy house & the place where th●…ne honour dwelleth . psal : . . one thing have i desired of the lord that will i seek after , ●…hat i may dwell in the house of the lord all the dayes of my life to behold the beauty of the lord & to inquire in his temple . printed by s g at cambridge in new england and are to be sold at cambridge and boston anno dom : . the preface the setting forth of the publick conf●…ssion of the faith of church●… at●… a 〈◊〉 ●…d , 〈◊〉 b●…h ten●…ing to puplic . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of the fa●…h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 se●…f : secondly th●… holding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 un●…ty & harm●… , both amongst , & with other churches . our chu●…es h●…e , as ( ●…y the grace of chr●…st ) wee beleive & profess the sam●… ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…e 〈◊〉 ●…f ●…he gospell , which generally is received in ●…ll the reformed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…st in ●…rope : so 〈◊〉 , wee desire not to vary f●…om the ●…octrine of f●… 〈◊〉 ●…eld fo●… by ●…he churches of our nat●…ve country . for though it be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that can breed vs 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 min●… ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 w●…e for to hav●… the glor●…ous fa●…h of our lord iesus w●…th respect of persons : yet as p●…ul who wa●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ●…rofessed to hold forth the doctrine of just●…fication by faith , & of th●… 〈◊〉 of the de●… , 〈◊〉 as he know his godly countrymen did , who were ●…wes by nature ( gala●… . . . acts . , . ) soe wee , who are by nature ; eng●…sh m●…n , d●… d●…sire to hold forth the s●…me 〈◊〉 of religion ( especially 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) wh●… wee see & kn●…w to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by th●… churches of england , accor●…g to the truth of the gospell the more wee 〈◊〉 , ( that which wee doe , & have cause to doe with incessant 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 ) he 〈◊〉 , & unbr●…therly , & unchristian contentions of our godly brethr●…n , & countrymen , ●…n matters of church-government : he more ern●…stly do●… wee desire to see th●…m joyned together in one common faith , & our selves w●… 〈◊〉 . for th●…s ●…nd , h●…ng perused the publ●…k confession of faith , agreed uponly the reverend assembly of d●…ines at 〈◊〉 , & find●…ng the sum●… & su●…stance therof ( in matters of doctrine ) to express not th●… own judgements o●…ly , 〈◊〉 o●…rs also : and being likewise called upon by our godly mag●…strates , to d●…w up a publick 〈◊〉 of that f●…ith , which is constan●…ly taught , & genera●…y 〈◊〉 amongst us , wee thought good to p●…esent ●…nto them , & with them to our 〈◊〉 , & w●…h them to all the church●…s of christ abroad , our prof●…ssed & hearty 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 to th●… whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 faith ( f●…r 〈◊〉 of d●…ctrine ) which 〈◊〉 reverend 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 h●…nourable 〈◊〉 of engl●… : excep●…ing only some 〈◊〉 in the & . c●…apters of their conf●…ssion , whic●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of con●…roversie in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; 〈◊〉 whi●… wee ref●…re our selves to the draught of church-discpline in the ensueing treatise . the truth of what we here declare , may appear by the unanimous vo●…e of the synod of the elders & messengers of our churches assembled at cambridg , the last of the sixth month , : wo●…ch ioyntly passed in these words ; this synod having perused , & considered ( with much gladness of heart , & thankfullness to god ) the cōfession of faith published ●…f late by the reverend assembly in england , doe judge it to be very holy , orthodox , & judicious in all matters of faith : & doe therfore freely & fully consent therunto , for the substance therof . only in those things which have respect to church government & discipline , wee refer our selves to the platform of church-discipline , agreed upon by this present assē●…ly : & doe therfore think it meet , that this confession of faith , should be cōmended to the churces of christ amongst us , & to the honoured court , as worthy of their due consideration & acceptance . howbe●… , wee may not conceal , that the doctrine of vocation expressed in chap . s . & summarily repeated , chap . & . passed not without some debate . yet considering , that the term of vocation , & others by which it is described , are capable of a larg , or more strict sense , & use , and that it is not intended to bind apprehensions precisely in po●…t of order or method , there hath been a generall condescendency therunto . now by this our professed consent & free concurrence with them in all the doctrinalls of religion , wee hope , it may appear to the world , that as wee are a remnant of the people of the same nation with them : so wee are professors of the same common faith , & fellow heyres of the same common salvation . yea moreover , as this our profession of the same faith with them , will exempt us ( even in their judgmēts ) from suspicion of heresy : so ( wee trust ) it may exempt us in the like sort from suspicion of schism : that though wee are forced to dissent from them in matters of church-discipline : yet our dissent is not taken up out of arrogancy of spirit in our selves ( whom they see willingly condescend to learn of them : ) neither is it carryed with uncharitable censoriousness towards them ( both which are the proper , & essentiall charracters of schism ) but in meekness of w●…sdom , as wee walk along w●…th them , & follow them , as they follow christ : so where wee 〈◊〉 a ●…fferent apprehention of the mind of christ ( as it faileth out in some few points 〈◊〉 church-order ) wee still reserve due reverence to them ( whom wee judge to be , th●…ough chr●…st , the glorious l●…ghts of both nations : ) & only crave leave ( as in spirit wee are bound ) to follow the lamb w●…thersoever he goeth , & ( after the apostles example ) as wee bele●…ve , so wee speak . and if the example of such poor outcasts as our selves , might prevaile if not with all ( for that were too great a blessing to hope fo●… ) yet with some or other of our brethren in england , so farr as they are come to ●…ind & speake the same thing with such as dissent from them , wee hope in christ , it would not onely moderate the harsh judging and condemning of one another in such differences of judgment , as may be found in 〈◊〉 ch●…ysest sa●…nts : but also preven ( ●…y the mercy of 〈◊〉 ) the perill of the distraction & 〈◊〉 of all the churches 〈◊〉 both k●…ngdoms . otherwise , if brethren shall goe on to bite & devoure one another , the apo●… feare●… ( as wee als●… , ●…th s●…dness of 〈◊〉 a●… ) 〈◊〉 will tend to the 〈◊〉 of them , & 〈◊〉 wh●…ch t●…e lo●…d prevent . wee are not ignorant , that ( besides these 〈◊〉 of heresy & schis●… ) other exceptions also are tak●…n at our w●…y of church govern●… : 〈◊〉 ( as wee conce●… ) u●… as li●…le 〈◊〉 . as that by admitting none into the fellowship of our church , but saints by c●…lling , wee 〈◊〉 p●…sh-churches of th●… b●…st 〈◊〉 , to make up one of o●…r cong●…gations : which is not o●…ly , to gather churches o●…t of churches ( a th●…ng 〈◊〉 ●…f ●…n sc●…pture : ) but also to weaken the hearts & hands of the best minist●…rs ●…n th●… par●…shes , by d●…spoyling them of th●…●…st ●…earers . that wee provide no course for the gayning , & 〈◊〉 in , of ignorant , & erronious , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whom wee 〈◊〉 to receive into our churches , & so exclude from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 . that in our way , wee sow seed●… of division & h●…ndrance of edificat●…ō in every f●…ly : whilst admitting into our churches only voluntar●…es , the husbād w●…ll be ●…f on●… church , the wife of another : the parent , of one church , the children of 〈◊〉 the ma●…ster of one ch●…rch , the servant , of another . and so the parent & ma●…sters being of d●…fferent churches from their child●…n & servants , t●…ey cannot take a j●…st ●…ccount of their profiting by what they heare , yea by this 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 , parents , & ma●…sters , shall be chargable to t●…e 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 other churc●…es & church-officer●… , besides their own : which will prove a charge & b●…rden unsuppo●…ble . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as to 〈◊〉 . fo●… 〈◊〉 churches out of churches , wee cannot s●…y t●… it is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the ●…st 〈◊〉 church was 〈◊〉 out ●…f the iew●…sh 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that church , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…f 〈◊〉 , part●…y of 〈◊〉 ga●…leans : who though t●…y k●…pt some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 parts of pu●…k 〈◊〉 wi●…h the t●…ple : yet 〈◊〉 th●… 〈◊〉 th●…y frequen●… th●… 〈◊〉 , no●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the 〈◊〉 of their 〈◊〉 causes , b●…t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the apostles c●…ch ●…ll ●…he ord●…nances of the gos●… . and for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 church of the 〈◊〉 at antoch , it appe●…reth 〈◊〉 ●…ve ●…een g●…hered & 〈◊〉 partly of the ●…sed b●…hren of the 〈◊〉 at ierus●…lem ( whe●…of so●… were men of cyprus , and 〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . acts . ●… . , . if it be sa●…d the fi●…st christ●…an church at ierus●…lem , & that at antioch were gathered not out of any ch●…stian church , but out of the jewish 〈◊〉 and synagogues , which were shortly aft●…r to be abolished : & their gathering to ant●…och , was upon occasion of dispersion in time of persecution . wee d●…sire , it may be considered , i that the members of the iewish church were more strongly and st●…tly tyed by express holy covenant , to keep fellowsh●…p with the iewish church , t●…ll it was abol shed , then any members of christian parish-churches are wont to be tyed to keep fellowsh●…p with their par●…sh-churches . the episcopall canon●… , which bind them to attend on th●…er parish church , it is likely they a●…e now abolished with the episcopa●…y . the common law ●…f the land is satisfy a ( as wee concive ) if they attend upon the worship of god in any other church though not 〈◊〉 their own parish . but no such like covenant of god , nor any other religious 〈◊〉 upon them to attend the worship of god in their own par●…sh church , as did lye up●…n the iewes to attend upon the wo●…ship of god in their temple and synagogue . t●…ugh the iew●…sh temple church at ierus●…em was to be abolis●… , vet that doeth not make the desertion of it by the members , to be lawfull , ●…ll 〈◊〉 was al●…o she●… . future abolition is now errant for present dese●…o : unless it be lawfull ●…n some case 〈◊〉 the chu●…chis yet in present sta●…ding to 〈◊〉 ; to witt , either for avoyding of present polutions , or for hope of greater 〈◊〉 , and so f●…r better 〈◊〉 to conscience in either future events ( 〈◊〉 for●… of 〈◊〉 ) to not ●…olve present relat●…on . else wives , children , servants , might desert 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pa●…ents , ●…asters , when they be mortally sick . what the members of the iewish ch●…ch did , 〈◊〉 to the church a●… antioch , in time of persecution , it may w●…ll be con●…ved , ●…e 〈◊〉 of any christ an church may d●… the lik , for satisfaction of con●… . pe●…ce of 〈◊〉 is m●…re 〈◊〉 then the pe●…ce of the outwa●…d 〈◊〉 ●…nd 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of cons●…ēce is m●…re 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to a sincere hea●… , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 . if it be s●…d , these members of the christ an ch●…ch at 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that joyned to the church at antioch , removed their 〈◊〉 together with th●…r relations : which ●…f the brethren of the 〈◊〉 way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it w●…ll much abate the grievance of their depart●… from their presbyter all churche●… . wee verily could w●…sh them ●…o to a●… , as ●…ll approv●…ng the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…bitation , ●…n case of ch●…ging church-relation●… ( 〈◊〉 , that it may be done wi●…hout too much ●…riment to their outward estate ) ●…nd w●… for our pa●…tes , have done t●…e same . but to put a necessi●…y of removall of habi●…●…n in such 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 is to fo●…nt and cherish a corrupt principle of making civ●…l ●…ation , if ●…ot a 〈◊〉 cause , yet at least a proper adiunct of church-relation ; which the truth of the gospel do●…h no●… ackno●…ledg . now to 〈◊〉 an errour to the prejudice of the tr●…th of the gospell , is no●… to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the truth of the g●…pel , as paul 〈◊〉 , galat. . . wee do not think it meet , or safe , for a me●…ber of a presbyteriall church , fo●… with to desert his relation to his church , betake himself to the fellowship of a 〈◊〉 church , though he may d●…scern some def●…ct in the estate , or government of his owne . for faithfullness of brotherly love in church-relation , requireth , that the members of the church sh●…ld first convince their brethren of their sinfull defects , & duely wait for their reformation , bef●…re they depart from them . for if wee must take such a course for the healing of a private brother , in a way of brotherly love , with much ●…eekness , & patience : how more more ought wee so to walk with like tendrness , towards a whole church . again by the hasty departure of ●…ound members from a defective church , refo●…mation is not promoted , but many times retarded , & corruption increased . wheras ●…n the contrary , while sincere members breathing after purity of reformation abide together , they may ( by the blessing of god upon their faithfull endeavours ) preva●…le much with their elders , & neighbours towards a reformation ; ●…t may be , so 〈◊〉 , as that their elders in their own church shall receive none to the lord ▪ table , ●…ut visible saints : & in the classis shall put forth no authoritive ●…ct but c●…tive only ) touching the members of other churches : nor touching their own but 〈◊〉 the consent ( silēt consent at least ) of their own church : which two things , 〈◊〉 t●…ey can ●…bteyn with any humble , meek , holy , faithfull endeavours , wee 〈◊〉 , they might ( by the grace of christ find liberty ●…f consc●…ce to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 relation with their own pre●…byteriall church , w●…hout scru●…le ●…t to add a word farthe●… , 〈◊〉 the gathering of c●…urches out of ch●…rches , what ●…f the●…e we●…e ●…o express examp●…●…f such a 〈◊〉 extant in the script●… ? 〈◊〉 wh●… w●… 〈◊〉 w●… to 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , may suffice hear : it is 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 th●… of may be gathered from just 〈◊〉 of scripture 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…ase , 〈◊〉 ▪ for ought wee know ) w●…thout ex 〈◊〉 , w●…ch he g●…e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ans to qu : c . nu●… . if any ( faith he ) wronged with unj●…st vexation , or providing for his own 〈◊〉 or in test●…ony against sin̄ depart from a church where some evills are tollerated , & joyn himself to another more p●…re , yet without cōdemning of the chu●…ch he l●…veth , he is not therfore to be h●…ld as a schismatick , or as guilty of any other sinn . whe●…e the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which the 〈◊〉 docter putteth , declareth the lawf●…llness of the dep●…ture of a church-me●…er from his church , when e●…ther through w●… 〈◊〉 of unjust vexation , or 〈◊〉 way of pr●…sion for h●…s own edification , or in test●…ny 〈◊〉 sinn , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 co●…gtion mo●…e reformed . any one ●…f 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 c●…use of de●…re , though all of them do not concurr together . neither will such a practise dispoyle the best m●…nisters of the p●… she s of the●… best he●…ers . for somtimes the m●…sters themselves are willing to joyn with their better sort of hearers , in this way of reformation : & then they & their h●…rers cont●…nue stil their ch●…ch relati●… together , ye●… & confirm●…t mo 〈◊〉 & strongly , by an express re●…ewed covenant , th●…h the ministers may still continue their w●…ted pre●…ching to the w●…le p●…sh . if the m●…ster , d●… 〈◊〉 the way of those , w●…om they otherwise 〈◊〉 their best me●…bers , & so refuse to joyn with them therin ; yet ●…f those members can procu●…e s●…e other mi●…ster , to joyn with them in their ow●… way , & st●…ll 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same town , they may easily order the times of the 〈◊〉 assembly , as to attend constantly upon the 〈◊〉 of their former church : & either after or before the publick assembly of the parish take an opportunity to gather together for t●…e 〈◊〉 of sacramēts , & censure●… , & other church ordinances amongst themselves . the fi●…st apostolick 〈◊〉 assembled to hear the word with the jewish church in the open courts of the temple : but 〈◊〉 gathered together for 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , & other acts of church-order , from house to house suppose , pre●…byteriall churches should cōmunicate so●…e of their best gifted members toward the erecting & gathering of another 〈◊〉 : ●…t would not forthwith be their detriment , but may be their 〈◊〉 . it is the most noble & perfect work of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( bot●… 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 ●…gate , & multiply his kind●… & t●… t●…e honour of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…t , to set forward the wor●… of ch●…st 〈◊〉 well 〈◊〉 as at home . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the ●… . to help forw●…rd he●… little ●…-church ▪ w●… 〈◊〉 t●… 〈◊〉 ●…th he●… ch●…yse-materiall , even be●…es of ced●…r , & such pretio●… living 〈◊〉 , ●…s wee●… fit to build a silver pall●…ce in the same book , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comp●…ed some●…e to a 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 to an orchard , cant . ●… . no 〈◊〉 plant to a garden , or orchard , but seeketh to get the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & plant , of his neighbours , & they freely imp●…rt them : nor doe they accoūt●…t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to their garden , & orchards , but rat●… 〈◊〉 . nevertheless wee go not so farr : we ne●…ther seek , nor ●…alk the choyse-members of the parishes but accept them being offered . if it be sa●… , ●…hey are not offered by the m●…nisters , nor by the par●…sh churc●…s ( who have most right in them ) but only by themselves . it may j●…stly be dema●…nded what right , or what powr have either the ministers , or parish church over them . not by solemn church coven●…nt : for that , though it be the fi●…est engagement , is not owned , but rejected . if it be , by their joyning with the parish , in the calling & election of a minister to such a congregation at his first comming , there is indeed just weight in such an ingagement : nor doe wee judge it safe for such to remove from such a minister , unless it be upon such grounds , as may justly give him due satisfactiō . but if the uniō of such members to a parish church , & to the ministery therof , be only by cohabitation within the precincts of the parish , that union , as it was founded upō humane law : so by humane law it may easily be released . or otherwise , if a man remove his habitation , he removeth also the bond of his relation , & the ground of offence . it need not to be feared , that all best hearers of the best ministers , no nor the most of them , will depart from them upon point of church-governmēt . those who have found the presence & powr of the spirit of christ breathing in their ministers , either to their conversion , or edification , will be slow to change such a ministery of faith , & holyness , for the liberty of church-order . upon which ground , & sundry other such like , their be doubtless sundry godly & judicious hearers in many parishes in england that doe & will prefer their relation to their ministers ( though in a presbyteriall way ) above the congreg●…tionall confoederation . but if all , or the most part of the best hearers of the best ministers of parishes , should depart from them , as preferring in their judgments , the congregationall way : yet , in case the congregationall way should prove to be of christ , it will never greiv the holy hearts of godly ministers , that their hearers should follow after christ : yea many of themselves ( upon due deliberation ) will be reaedy to go along with them . it never greived , nor troubled john baptist that his best disciples , departed from him to follow after christ . joh. . but in case the congregationall way should prove to be , not the institution of christ ( as wee take it ) but the invētion of men : then doubtless , the presbyteriall form ( if it be of god ) will swallow up the other●… as moses rod devoured the rods of the aegyptians . nor will this put a necessity upon both the opposite partyes , to sh●…ft for themselves , & to seek to supplant one another : but only , it will call upon them {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} to seek & to follow the trueth in love , to attend in faithfullness each ūto his own flock , & to administer to the●… all the holy things of god , & their port ō of food in due season : & as for others , quietly to forbear them , & yet to instruct them with meekness that are contrary minded : leaving it to christ ( in the use of all good meanes ) to reveal his own trueth in his own time : & mean while endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . 〈◊〉 p. . , . ephesians . . . to the exception , that wee take no co●…rse for the gayning & healing & 〈◊〉 in of ignorant & erronious , & scandal●…s persōs , whom wee refuse to receive into our churches & so exclude them from the rēmidy of church 〈◊〉 wee conceive the receiving of them into o●…r 〈◊〉 w●…d ●…ather loose 〈◊〉 cor●…pt our churches , ●…hen gain & heale the●… . a little 〈◊〉 layed in a lump of dough , will sooner le●…n the whole lump , then the whole l●…mp w●…ll sw●…eten i●… . wee therefore find it safer , to squ●…re rough & unhew 〈◊〉 , bef●…e he ●…e layed n o the buil●…ing ; rath●…r then ●…o h●…nimer & hew the●… , ●…hen ●…hey lye ●…renly ●…n the build●…ng . and accordingly , w●… meanes ( w●…e u●…e y●… & 〈◊〉 such ●…s are ignorāt or scandalous . the publick min●…stery of the w●… , ●…pon w●…ch they are invitedly counsel , & required by wholsome l●…wes 〈◊〉 . a●… the word it is , wh●…ch is the powr of god to salvation , to the calling & 〈◊〉 ●…f sou●… . p●…ivate conferr●…nce , & conviction by the elders , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…f 〈◊〉 church : whom they doe the ●…ore respectively heark●…n unto , wh●…n they see no 〈◊〉 ●…f enjoying church-fellowship , or participation in the sacraments for 〈◊〉 , or their 〈◊〉 , till they approve their judgments to be sound & or●…hodox , & th●… lives ●…ubdued to some hope of a godly 〈◊〉 . wh●…t can classical 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 selfe do more 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 case . the exception wrapp●…th up in ●…t a three fold domestical inconvenience : & each o●… them meet to be eschewed . disunion in families between each rel●…tion : d●…sappointmēt of 〈◊〉 , for want of opportunity in the governours of familyes to take accoūt of th●… heard by the●…r children & servants . disoursments of chargeable maintenance to the several churches , wherto the 〈◊〉 persons of their familyes are joyned . all which inconveniences either do no●… fall out in congregationall-church●… ; or are easily redressed . for none are o●…derly admitted into congregational-churches bu●… such as are well approved by good testimony , to be duly observant of familyrelations . or if any otherwise disposed should creep in they are either orde●…ly heal●… , or d●…ly removed in a way of 〈◊〉 . nor are they admitted , unl●…ss they can g●…e some good account of their pr●…iting by 〈◊〉 , ●…fore the elders & brethren of the church : & much more to their 〈◊〉 , & masters . godly tutors in the university can t●…ke an account of their pupils : & godly 〈◊〉 in the c●…ty can take account ●…f their children & servants , how they profit by the wo●…d they have heard in several churches : & that to the greater ed●…fication of the whole f●…mily , ●…y the variety of such administrations . bees may bring the more hony , & wax into the hive , when they are not l●…mited to one garden of flowers , but may fly abroad to man●… . no●…●…s any ch●…rge expected from 〈◊〉 , children , or servants to the 〈◊〉 of congregationall churches , 〈◊〉 her th●…n they ●…e 〈◊〉 w●…h personall 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , wh●…h may enable th●… to 〈◊〉 of su●…h 〈◊〉 as they ha●…e , & 〈◊〉 such as they have not . god accepteth not robbery for a sacrific●… . and though a godly housholder may j●…stly take himselfe bound in conscience , to cr●…tybute to any such church , wherto 〈◊〉 wife , or children , or servants doe stand in relation : yet that will not aggr●…ate the burden of his charge , no more then if they were received members of the same church wherto himself is related . but why doe wee stand thus long to plead exemptions from exceptions ? the lord help all his faithfull servants ( whe●…her presbyteriall , or congregational . ) to judg & shame our selves before the lord for all our former complyances to greater enormity●… in church-government , then are to be found either in the congregationall , or presbyteriall way . and then surely , either the lord will cleare up his own will to us , & so frame , & subdue us all to one mind , & one way , ( ezck. . , . ) or else wee shall learn to beare one anothers burdens in a spirit of meekness . it will then doubtless be farr from us , so to attest the discipline of christ , as to detest the disciples of christ : so to contend for the seameless coat of christ , as to crucifi●… the living members of christ soe to divide our selves about church communion , as through breaches to open a wide gap for a deluge of antichristian & prophane malignity to swallow up both church & civil stat●… . what shall wee say more ? is difference about church-order beco●… the inlett of all the disorders in the kingdom ? hath the lord indeed left us to such hardness of heart , that church-government shall becom a snare to z●…on , ( as somtimes moses was t●… aegypt , exod. . . ) that wee cannot leave 〈◊〉 & contending about it , till the kingdom be destroyed ? did not the lord iesus , when he dedicated his sufferings for his church , 〈◊〉 his also unto his father , make it his earnest & only p●…ayer for us in this world , that wee all might be one in him ? iohn . . , , , . and is it possible , that he ( whom the father ●…eard alway●… , iohn . . . ) should not have this last most solemn prayer heard , & graunted ? or , shall it be graunted for all the saints elsewhere , & not for the saints in england ; so that amongst them disunion sh●…ll grow even about church-union , & communion ? if it be possible , for a little faith ( so much as a grain of mustardse●…d ) to remove a mountaine : is it not possible , for so much strength of faith , as is to be found in all the godly in the kingdom , 〈◊〉 remove those images of jealousie , & to cast those stumbling-blockes out of the way , which may hinder the free passage of brotherly love amongst brethren ? it is true indeed , the national covenant doth justly engage both partyes , faithfully to endeavour the utter extirpation of the antichristin hierarchy , & much more of all blasphemyes , heresies , & damnable errours . certainly , if congregational discipline be independent from the inventions of men , is it not much more independent from the delusions of satan ? what fellowship hath christ with belial ? light with darkness ? trueth with errour ? the faithfull iewes needed not the help of the 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…y the temple of god : yea they rejected their help when it w●… offered , 〈◊〉 . the , , . a●…d if the congregationall w●…y be a way of trueth ( as wee believe ) & if the brethren that walk in it be zealous of the trueth , & hate every false way ( as by the rule of their ho●…y discipline they are instructed , iohn . , . ) then verily , there is no branch in the nationall coven●… , that engageth the covenanters to abh●…re either congregationall churches , or their way : which being duely adminstred , doe no less effectually extirpate the a●…christian hierarchy , & all blasphemies , heresyes , & perni●…ous errours , then the other way of discipline doeth , which is more generally & publickly received & ratifyed . but the lord iesus 〈◊〉 with ●…ll ou●… h●…ts in ●…ret : & ●…e 〈◊〉 is the king of his ch●…ch , let him ●…e ple●… to excer●…ise his kingly powr in our spirites , th●…t so his k●…ngdome may come into our churches in p●…rity & peace . amen amen chapter i. of the form of church-government ; and that it is one , immutable , and prescribed in the word of god . ecclesiasticall polity or church government , or discipline is nothing els , but that forme & order that is to be observed in the church of christ vpon earth , both for the constitution of it , & all the administrations that therein are to bee performed . church-government is considered in a double respect either in regard of the parts of government themselves , or necessary circumstances thereof . the parts of government are prescribed in the word , because the lord iesus christ the king and law-giver of his church , is no less faithfull in the house of god then was moses , who from the lord delivered a form & pattern of government to the children of israel in the old testament : and the holy scriptures are now also soe perfect , as they are able to make the man of god perfect & throughly furnished vnto euery good work ; & therefore doubtless ●…o the well ordering of the house of god the partes of church-government are all of them exactly described in the word of god being parts or means of instituted worship according to the second commandement : & therefore to continue one & the same , vnto the apearing of our lord iesus christ as a kingdom that cannot be shaken , untill hee shall deliver it up unto god , euen the father . soe that it is not left in the power of men , officers , churches , or any state in the world to add , or diminish , or alter any thing in the least measure ther●…in . the necessary circumstances , as time & place &c belonging unto order and decency , are not soe left unto men as that under pretence of them , they may thrust their own inventions upon the churches being circumscribed in the word with many generall ●…imitations , where they are determined in respect of the matter to be neither worship it self , nor circumstances seperable from worship in respect of their end , they must be done vnto edification : in respect of the manner , decently , and in order , according to the nature of the things them selves , & civill , & church custom . doth not euen nature it selfe teach you ? ye●… they , are in some sort determined particularly , namely that they be done in such a manner , as all circumstances considered , is most expedient for edification : so , as if there bee no errour of man concerning their determination , the determining of them is to be accounted as if it were divine . chap : ii. of the nature of the catholick church in generall , & in speciall , of a particular visible church . the catholick church , is the whole company of those that are elected , redeemed , & in time effectually called from the state of sin & death vnto a state of grace , & salvation in iesus christ . this church is either triumphant , or militant . triumphant , the number of them who are gloryfied in heaven : militant , the number of them who are conflicting with their enemies vpon earth . . this militant church is to bee considered as invisible , & visible . invisible , in respect of their relation wherin they stand to christ , as a body unto the head , being united unto him , by the spirit of god , & faith in their hearts : visible , in respect of the profession of their faith , in their persons , & in particuler churches : & so there may be acknowledged an universall visible church . the members of the militant visible church , considered either as not yet in church-order , or as walking according to the church-order of the gospel . in order , & so besides the spiritual union , & communion , common to all belivers , they injoy more over an union & communion ecclesiasticall-politicall : so wee deny an universall visible church . the state of the members of the militant visible church walking in order ▪ was either before the law , oeconomical , that is in families ; or under the law , national : or , since the comming of christ , only congregational . ( the term independent , wee approve not : ) therfore neither national , provincial , not classical . a congregational-church , is by the inst●…titution of christ a part of the militant-visible-church , consistin●… of a company o●… saints by calling , un●…ed into one body by 〈◊〉 holy covenant , for the publick worship of god , & th●… mutuall edification one of another , in the fellowship o●… the lord iesus . chap : iii. of the matter of the visible church both inr●…spect of quality and quantity . the matter of a visible church are saints by calling . by saints , wee understand , such , as haue not only attained the knowledge of the principles of religion , & are free from gr●…s & open scand●…ls , but also do together with the profession of their faith & repentance , walk i●… blameles obedience to the word , so as that in charitable discretion they may be accounted saints by calling , ( though perhaps some or more of them be unsound , & hypocrites inwardly●… ) bec●…se the members of such particular churches are commonly by the holy ghost called saints & faithfull brethren in christ , and sundry c●…ch es haue been reproued for receiving , & suffering such persons to c●…ntinu in fellowship amongst them , as have been offensive & scandalous : the name of god also by this means is blasphemed : & the holy things of god defiled & prophaned , the hearts of godly gri●…ved : & the wicked themselves hardned : & holpen forward to ●…nation . the example of such doeth endanger the sanctity of others . a litle leaven leaveneth the whole lump . the children of such , who are also holy . the members of churches though orderly constituted , may in time degenerate , & grow corrupt & scandalous , which though they ought not to be ●…olerated in the church , yet their continu●…ce ●…erein , through the defect of the execution of discipline & ju●… 〈◊〉 , doth not immediately d●…ssolv the being of the church , as appeares in the church of israell , & the churches of g●…latia , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 , & 〈◊〉 . yet wee conceive , the substance of it is kept , where there is 〈◊〉 real agreement & consent , of a company of faithful persons to meet constantly together in one congregation , for the publick worship of god , & their mutuall edification : which real agreement & consent they doe express by their constant practise in comming together for the publick worship of god , & by their religious subjection unto the ordinances of god the●…e : the rather , if wee doe consider how scripture covenants have been entred into , not only expressly by word of mouth , but by s●…crifice ; by hand writing , & seal ; & also somtimes by silent co●…sent , without any writing , or expression of words at all . this forme then being by mutuall covenant , it followeth , it is not faith in the heart , nor the profession of that faith , nor cohabitation , nor baptisme ; not faith in the heart ? becaus that is invisible : not a bare profession ; because that declareth them no more to be members of one church then of another : not cohabitation ; athiests or infidels may dwell together with beleivers : not baptism ; because it presupposseth a church estate , as circumcision in the old testament , which gave no being unto the church , the church being before it , & in the wilderne , without it seals presuppose a covenant already in being , one person is a compleat subiect of baptism : but one person is uncapable of being a church . all believers ought , as god giveth them opportunity there unto , to endeavour to joyn themselves unto a particular church & that in respect of the honour of jesus christ , in his example , & institution , by the professed acknowledgment of , & subiection unto the order & ordinances of the gospel : as also in respect of their good of communion founded upon their visible union , & containd in the promises of christs special presence in the thurch : whence they have fellowship with him , & in him one with another : also for the keeping of them in the way of gods commandm●…nts , & recovering of them in case of wandring , ( which all christs sheep are subiect to in this life ) , being unable to returne of themselves ; together with the benefit of their mutual edification , and of their posterity , th●…t they may not be ●…ut of from t●…e priviledges of the covenan●… , otherwis , if a believer offends , he remaines destitute of the remedy provi●…ed in that behalf , & should all believers neglect this duty of ●…yning to all particular congregations : it might follow therupon , that 〈◊〉 should h●…ve no visible political c●…rches upon earth , chap v. of the first subject of church powr or , to whom church powr doth first 〈◊〉 . the first subject of church powr , is eyther supream , or subordinat , & ministerial . the supream ( by way of gift from the father ) is the lord iesus christ , the ministerial , is either extraordinary ; as the apostles , prophets , & evangilists : or ordinary ; as every particular congregational church . ordinary church powr , is either the power of office , that is such as is proper to the eldership : or , power of priviledge , such as be longs unto the brotherhood ▪ the latter , is in the brethren formally , & immediately from christ , that is , so as it may according to order be acted or excercised immediately by themselves : the former , is not in them form●…lly or immediately , & therfore cannot be acted or excercised immediately by them , but is said to be in them , in that they design the persons unto office , who only are to act , or to excercise this power . chap vi . of the officers of the church , & especially of pastors & teachers . a church being a company of people combined together by covenant for the worship of god , it appeareth therby , that there may be the 〈◊〉 & being of a church without any officers , seeing there is bot●… 〈◊〉 and matter of a church , which is implyed , when it i●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordained elders in 〈◊〉 ●…urch , 〈◊〉 , though 〈◊〉 be not 〈◊〉 necess●…ry , to the simple being of churches , when th●…y be 〈◊〉 : yet ordinarily to their calling they are ; and to their well being : and therfore the lord iesus out of his tender compassion hath appointed , and ordained officers which he would not have done , if they had not been usefull & need full for the church ; yea , being ascended into heaven , he received gifts for men , and gave gifts to men , whereof officers for the church are justly accounted no small parts ; they being to continue to the end of the world , and for the perfecting of all the saints . these officers were either extraordinary , or ordinary , extraordinary as apostles , prphets , evangilists , ordinary as elders & 〈◊〉 . the apostles , prophets , & evangelists , as they were called extraordinarily by christ , so their office ended with themselves whence it is , that paul directing timothy how to carry along church-administrations , giveth no direction about the choice or course of apostles , prophe●… , or evange●…sts , but only of elders , & deacons . & when paul was to take his last leave of the church of ephe●…s , he commited the care of feeding the church to ●…o ther , but unto the elders of that church . the like c●…rge doth 〈◊〉 commit to the elders . of 〈◊〉 ( who are also in scripture called ●…shops ) some attend chiefly to the ministry of the word , a●… the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 teachers others , attend especially unto r●…le , who are therfore called rul●…ng elders . the office of pastor & teacher , appears to be distinct . the pastors special work is , to attend to exh●…tation : & therein to administer a word of wisdom the teacher is to attend to d●…mo , & therein to administer a word of knowledg : & either of them to administer the seales of that covenant , unto the dispensation wherof the are alike called : as also to execute the censu●…e , being but a kind of application of the word , the preaching of which , together with the application therof they are alike charged withall . and for as much as both pastors & teachers are given by christ for the perfecting of the saints , & edifying of his body , which saints , & body of christ is his church ; therfore wee account pastors & teacher , to be both of them church-officers , & not the pastor for the church : & the teacher only for the schools , though this wee gladly acknowledg , that schoole , are both lawfull , profitable , & necessary for the trayning up of such in good litrature , or learning , as may afterwards be called forth unto office of pastor or teacher in the church . chap vii . of ruling elders & deacons . the ruling elders office is distinct from the office of pastor & teacher . the ruling elders are not so called to exclude the pastors & teachers from ruling , because ruling & govern●…ng is common to these with the other ; wheras attending to teach and preach the word is peculiar unto the former . the ruling e●…er , work is to joyn with the pastor & teacher in those acts of spiritual rubc which are distinct from the ministry of the word & sacraments committed to them . of which sort , these be , as followeth . to open & shut●… the dores of gods house , by the admission of members approved by the church : by ordination of officers chosen by the church : & by excommunication of notorious & obstinate offenders renounced by the church : & by restoring of poenitents , forgivē by the church . ii to call the church together when there is occasion , & seasonably to dismiss them agayn . iii to prepare matters in private , that in publick they may be carried an end with less trouble , & more speedy dispatch . iv to moderate the carriage of all matter , in the church assembled . as , to propound matters to the church , to order the season of speech & silence ; & to pronounce sentence according to the minde of christ , with the consent of the church . v to be guides & leaders to the church , in all matters what-soever , pertaining to church administrations & actions . vi to see that none in the church live inordinately out of rank & place ; without a calling , or idlely in their calling . vii to prevent & heal such offences in life , or in doctrin ; as might corrupt the church . iix to feed the flock of god with a word of admonition . ix and as they shall be sent for , to visit , & to pray over their sick brethren . x & at other times as opportunity shall serve therunto . the office of a deacon is instituted in the church by the lord jesus . somtime they are called helps . the scripture telleth us , how they should be qualified : grave , not double tougued , not given to much wine , not given to filthy . lucre . they must first be proved & then use the office of a deacon , being found blameless . the office and work of the deacons is to receive the offrings of the church , gifts given to the church , & to keep the treasury of the church : & therewith to serve the tables which the church is to provide for : as the lords table , the table of the ministers , & of such as are in necessitie , to whom they are to distribute in simplicity . the office therefore being limited unto the care of the temporall good things of the church , it extends not unto the attendance upon , & administration of the spirituall . things thereof , as the word , and sacraments , or the like . the ordinance of the apostle , & practice of the church , commends the lords day as a fit time for the contributions of the saints . the instituting of all these officers in the church , is the work of god himselfe ; of the lord iesus christ ; of the holy ghost . & therefore such officers 〈◊〉 he hath not appointed , are altogether unlawfull either to be placed in the church , or to be retained therin , & are to be looked at as humane creatures , meer inventions & appointments of man , to the great dishonour of christ jesus , the lord of his house , the king of his church , whether popes , patriarkes , cardinals , arch-bishops , lord 〈◊〉 , arch-●…eacons , officials , commissaries , & the like . these & the rest of that hierarchy & retinue , not being plants of the lords planting , shall all be certeinly be rooted out , & cast forth . the lord hath appointed ancient widdows , ( where they may be had ) to minister in the church , in giving attendance to the sick , & to give succour unto them , & others , in the like necessities . chap : iix . of the electon of church-officers . no man may take the honour of a church-officer unto himself , but he that was called of god , as was aaron . calling unto office , is either immediate , by christ himself : such was the call of the apostles , & prophets this manner of calling ended with them , as hath been said : or mediate , by the church . it is meet , that before any be ordained or chosen officers , they should first be 〈◊〉 & prove●… ; because hands are n●…t suddenly to be laid upon any , & both elders & deacons must be of honest & good repo●…t . the things in respect of which they are to be tryed , are those gif●…s & virtues which the scripture requireth in men , that are to be elected into such places . viz , that elders must be blameles●… , sober , apt to teach & endued with such other qualifications as are layd downe , tim: & . t●…t : . to . deacons to be fitted , as is directed , acts. , . tim: . , to . officers are to be called by such churches , whereunto they are to min●…ster . of such moment is the preservation of this power , that the churches excercised it in the presence of the apostles . a church being free cannot become subject to any , but by a free election ; yet when such a people do chuse any to be over them in the lord , then do they becom●… subject , & most willingly submit to their ministry in the lord , whom they have so chosen . and if the church have powr to chuse their officers & ministers , then in case of manifest unworthyness , & delinquency they have powr also to depose them . for to open , & shut : to chuse & refuse ; to constitute in office , & remove from office : are acts belonging unto the same powr . wee judge it much conducing to the wel-being , & communion of churches , that where it may conveniently be done , neighbour-churches be adv●…sed withall , & their help made use of in the triall of church-officers , in order to their choyce . the choyce of such church-officers belongeth not to the civil-magistrates , as such , or diocesan-bishops , or patrones : for of these or any such like , the scripture is wholly silent , as having any power therin . chap : ix . of ordination , & imposition of hands . church-officers are not only to be chosen by the church , but also to be ordeyned by imposition of hands , & prayer . with which at the ordination of elders , fasting also is to be joyned . this ordination wee account nothing else , but the solemn putting of a man into his place & office in the church wher-unto he had right before by election , being like the installing of a magistrat in the common wealth . ordination therefore is not to go before , but to follow election , the essence & substance of the outward calling of an ordinary officer in the church , doth not consist in his ordination , but in his voluntary & free election by the church , & in his accepting of that election , wher-upon is founded the relation between pastor & flock , between such a minister , & such a people . ordination doth not constitute an officer , nor give him the essentials of his office . the apostles were elders , without imposition of hands by men : paul & barnabas were officers , before that imposition of hands . acts. . . the posterity of levi were priests , & the church that had powr to receive him into their fellowship , hath also the same powr to cast him out , that they have concerning any other member . church-government , or rule , is placed by christ in the officers of the church , who are therefore called rulers , while they rule with god : yet in case of mal-administration , they are subject to the power of the church , according as hath been said before . the holy ghost frequently , yea alwayes , where it mentioneth church-rule , & church-government , ascribeth it to elders : wheras the work & duty of the people is expressed in the phrase of obeying their elders ; & submiting themselves unto them in the lord : so as it is manifest , that an organick or compleat church is a body politick , consisting of some that are governors , & some that are governed , in the lord . the powr which christ hath committed to the elders is to feed & rule the church of god , & accordingly to call the church together upon any weighty occasion , when the members so called , without just cause , may not refuse to come : nor when they are come , depart before they are dismissed : nor speak in the church , before they have leave from the elders : nor continue so doing , when they require silence , nor may they oppose nor contradict the judgment or sentence of the elders , without sufficient & weighty cause becaus such practices are manifestly contrary unto order , & government , & in-lets of disturbance , & tend to confusion . it belongs also unto the elders to examine any officers , or members , before they be received of the church : to receive the accusations brought to the church , & to prepare them for the churches hearing . in handling of offences & other matters before the church they have powr to declare & publish the counsell & will of god touching the same , & to pronounce sentence with consent of the church : lastly they have powr , when they dismiss the people , to bless them in the name of the lord . this powr of government in the elders , doth not any wise prejudice the powr of priviledg in the brotherhood ; as neither the powr of priviledg in the brethren , doth prejudice the power of government in the elders ; but they may sweetly agree together , as wee may see in the example of the apostles furnished with the greatest church-powr , who took in the concurrence & consent of the brethren in church-administrations . also that scripture , cor . . & chap : . doe declare , that what the churches were to act & doe in these matters , they were to doe in a way of obedience , & that not only to the direction of the apostles , but also of their ordinary elders . from the premisses , namely , that the ordinary powr of government belonging only to the elders , powr of priviledg remaineth with the brotherhood , ( as powr of judgment in masters of censure , & powr of liberty , in matters of liberty : ) it followeth , that in an organick church , & right administration ; all church acts , proceed after the manner of a mixt administration , so as no church act can be consummated , or perfected without the consent of both . chap : xi . of the maintenance of church officers . the apostle concludes , that necessary & sufficient maintenance is due unto the ministers of the word : from the law of nature & nations , from the law of moses , the equity thereof , as also the rule of common reason , moreover the scripture doth not only call elders labourers , & workmen , but also speaking o●… them doth say , that the labourer is worthy of his hire : & requires that he which is taught in the word , should communicate to him , in all good things ; & mentions it as an ordinance of the lord , that they which preach the gospel , should live of the gospel ; & forbideth the muzl●…ng of the mouth of the ox , that treadeth out the corn . the scriptures alledged requiring this maintenance as a bounden duty , & du●…●…eci , & not as a matter of almes , & free gift therefore people are not at liberty to doe or not to doe , what & when they pleas in this matter , no more then in any other commanded duty , & ordinance of the lord : but ought of duty , to minister of their ca●…ail ●…ngs to them , that labour amongst them in the word & doctrine , as well as they ought to pay any other work men their wages , or to discharge & satisfie their other debts , or to submit themselves to observe any other ordinance of the lord . the apostle , gal : , . injoyning that he which is taught communicate to him that teacheth ●…ad good things : doth not leave it arbitrary , what or how much a man shall give , or in what prop●…on . but even the later , as well as the former , is prescribed & appointed by the lord . not only members of churches , but all that are taught in in the word , are to contribute unto him that teacheth , in all good things . in case that congregations are defective in their contributions , the deacons are to call upon them to doe their duty : if their call sufficeth not , the church by her powr is to require it of their members , & where church-powr through the corruption of men , doth not , or can̄ot attaine the end , the magistrate is to see ministry be duely provided for , as appeares from the commended example of nehemiah . the magistrates are nursing fathers , & nursing mothers , & stand charged with the custody of both tables ; because it is better to prevent a scandal , that it may not come & easier also , then to remove it when it is given . it s most suitable to rule , that by the churches care , each man should know his proportion according to rule , what he should doe , before he doe it , that so his iudgment & heart may be satisfied in what he doeth , & just offence prevented in what is done . chap : xii . of admission of members into the church . the doors of the churches of christ upon earth , doe not by gods appointment stand so wide open , that all sorts of people good or bad , may freely enter therein at their pleasure ; but such as are admitted therto , as members ought to be examined & tryed first ; whether they be fit & meet to be received into church-society , or not . the evnuch of aethiopia , before his admission was examined by philip , whether he did beleive on jesus christ with all his heart the auged of the church at ephesus is commended , for trying such as said they were apostles & were not . there is like reason for trying of them that profess themselves to be beleivers . the officers are charged with the keeping of the doors of the church , & therfore are in a special man̄er to make try all of the fitnes of such who enter . twelve angels are set at the gates of the tem ple , lest such as were ceremonially unclean should enter therinto . the things which are requisite to be found in all church members , are , repentance from sin , & saith in jesus christ . and therfore these are the things wherof men are to be examined , at their admission into the church , & which then they must profess & hold forth in such sort , as may satisfie rationall charity , that the things are there indeed . iohn baptist admitted men to baptism , confessing & bewayling their sinns : & of other it is said , that they came , & confessed , & shewed their deeds . the weakest measure of faith is to be accepted in t●…ose that desire to be admitted into the church : becaus weak christians if sincere , have the substance of that faith , repentance & holiness which is required in church members : & such have most need of the ordinances for their confirmation & growth in grace . the lord jesus would not quench the smoaking flax , nor breake the bruised reed , but gather the tender lambes in his arms , & carry them gently in his bosome . such charity & tenderness is to be used , as the weakest christian if sincere , may not be excluded , nor discouraged . severity of examination is to be avoyded . in case any through excessive fear , or other infirmity , be unable to make their personal relation of their spirituall estate in publick , it is sufficient that the elders having received private satisfaction , make relation therof in publick before the church , they testifying their assents therunto ; this being the way that tendeth most to edification . but wheras persons are of better abilityes , there it is most expedient , that they make their relations , & confessions personally with their own mouth , as david professeth of himselfe . a personall & publick confession , & declaring of gods manner of working upon the soul , is both lawfull , expedient , & usefull , in sundry respects , & upon sundry grounds . those three thousands . acts. . . . before they were admitted by the apostles , did manifest that they were pricked in their hearts at peters sermon , together with earnest desire to be delivered from their sinns , which now wounded their consciences , & their ready receiving of the word of promise and exhortation . wee are to be ready to ●…der a reason of the hope that is in us , to every one that asketh us : th●…fore wee must be able and ready upon any occasion to declare & shew our repentance for sinn , faith unfamed ; & effectuall calling , because these are the reason of a well grounded hope . i have not hidden thy righteousness from the great congregation . psal : . . this profession of faith & repentance , as it must be made by such at their admission , that were never in church-society before : so nothing hindreth , but the same way also be performed by such as have formerly been members of some other church , & the church to which they now joyn themselves as members , may lawfully require the same . those three thousand . acts. . which made their confession , were mēbers of the church of the jewes before , so were they that were baptised by john . churches may err in their admission : & persons regularly admitted , may fall into offence otherwise if churches might obtrude their members , or if church-members might obtrude themselves upon other churches , without due tryall , the matter so requiring , both the liberty of churches would hereby be infringed , in that they might not examine those , concerning whose fitness for communion , they were unsatisfied : & besides the infringing of their liberty , the churches themselves would ūavoidably be corrupted , & the ordinances defiled , whilst they might not refuse , but must receive the unworthy : which is contrary unto the scripture , teaching that all churches are sisters , & therfore equall . the like tryall is to be required from such members of the church , as were born in the same , or received their membership , & were baptized in their infancy , or minority , by vertue of the covenāt of their parents , when being grown up unto yeares of discretion they shall desire to be made partakers of the lords supper : unto which , because holy things must not be given unto the unworthy , therfore it is requisit , that these as well as others , should come to their tryall & examīation , & manifest their faith & repentance by an open profession therof , before they , are received to the lords supper , & otherwise not to be be admitted there unto . yet these church-members that were so born , or received in their childhood , before they are capable of being made partakes of fall cōmunion , have many priviledges which others , not church-mēbers ) ha●…not ; they are in covenant with god ; have the seale therof upon th●… 〈◊〉 baptisme ; & so if not regenerated , yet are in a more hopefull way of attayning regenerating grace , & all the spiritual blessings both of the covenāt & seal ; they are also under c●…rch-watch , & consequently subject , to the reprehensions , ad non●…tions , & censures therof , for their healing and amendment , as need sh●…ll require . chap : xiii . of church-members their removall from one church to another , & of letters of recōmendation , & dismission . church-members may not remove or depart from the church , & so one from another as they please , nor without just & weighty cause but ought to live & dwell together : for as much as they are cōmanded , not to forsake the assembling of themselves together . such departure ▪ tends to the dissolution & ruine of the body : as the pulling of stones , & pe●…ces of timber from the building , & of members from the naturall body , tend to the destruction of the whole . it is thērfore the duty of church-members , in such times & places when counsell may be had , to consult with the church wherof they are mēmbers , about their removall ; that accordingly they having their approbation , may be incouraged or otherwise desist . they who are joyned with consent , should not depart without consent , except forced therunto . if a members departure be manifestly unsafe , and sinfull , the church may not consent therunto : for in so doing , they should not act in saith : & should pertake with him in his sinn . if the case be doubtfull , & the person not to be perswaded , it seemeth best to leave the matter unto god , & not forcibly to detayn him . just reasōs for a mēbers removall of himselfe from the church are , i if a man cānot continue without partakig in sinn . ii in case of personall persecution , so paul departed from the desciples at damascus . also , in case of generall persecution , when all are scattered . iii in case of real , & not only pretended , want of competent subsistence , a door being opened for better supply in another place , together with the meanes of spirituall edification . in these , or like cases , a member may lawfully remove , & the church cannot lawfully detayne him . to seperate from a church , eyther out of contempt of their holy fellowship , or out of 〈◊〉 or for greater inlargements with just greife to the church ; or out of 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; & out of a spirit of 〈◊〉 in respect of some unkindness , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only concei●…ed , or indeed , in the church which might & should be tolèrated & heared with a spirit of meekness , & of which evill the church is not yet cōvinced , ( though perhaps himselfe bee ) nor admonished : for these or like reasons to withdraw from publick cōmunion , in word , or seales , or censures , is unlawfull & sinfull . such members as have orderly removed their habitation ought to joyn themselves unto the church in order , where they doe inhabit if it may bee otherwise , they can neyther perform the dutyes , nor receive the priviledges of members ; such an example tolerated in some , is apt to corrupt others ; which if many should follow , would threaten the dissolution & confusion of churches , contrary to the scripture . order requires , that a member thus removing , have letters testimonia●… ; & of 〈◊〉 from the church wherof he yet is , unto the church wherunto he desireth to be joyned , lest the church sh●…uld be deluded ; that the church may receive him in faith ; & not be corrupted by receiving deceivers , & false brethren . untill the person dismissed be received into another church , he ceaseth ●…ot by his letters of dismission to be a member of the church wherof he was . the church can̄ot make a member no member but by excōmunication . if a member be called to remove only for a time , where a church is , letters of recommendation are requisite ; & sufficient for cōmunion with that church , in the ordinance , & in their watch : as phoebe , a servāt of the church at cenc●…ea , had letters writtē for her to the church of rome , that shee might be received , as becō●…eth saints . such letters of recommendation & 〈◊〉 were written for apollos : for marcus to the col●…siā ; for phoebe to the romāe●… ; for sūdry others to other churches , & the apostle telleth u●… , that some persons , not sufficiently known otherwise , have special need of such letter●… , though he for his part had no need therof the u●…e of them ●…s to be a benefit , & help to the party for whom they are writtē ; & for the furthering of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 amongst the saints in the pl●… whe●…to 〈◊〉 goeth ; & the d●…e sat●…faction of them in their receiving of h●…m . chap : xiv . of excommunication & other censures . the censures of the church , are appointed by christ , for the prevent●…ng , removing , & healing of offences in the church : for the reclayming & gayning of offending brethren : for the deterring of others from the like o●…eces : for purging out the leaven which may infect the whole lump : for vindicating the honour of christ , & of his church , & the holy profession of the gospel : & for preventing of the wrath of god , that may justly fall upon the church , if they should suffer his covenant , & the s●…ales therof , to be prophaned by notorious & obstinate offenders . if an offence be priv●… ( one brother offending another the offender is to goe , & acknowledg his repentāce for it unto his offended brother , who is then to forgive him , but if the ●…ffender neglect or refu●…e to doe it , the brother offēded is to goe , & cōvince & admonish him of it , between themselves privatly : ●…f therupon the offender bee brought to repent of his offēce , the admonisher hath won his brother , but if the offender heare not his brother , the brother offended is to take with him one or two more , that in the mouth of two or three witneses , every word may be established , ( whether the word of admonition if the offender receive it , or the word of complaint , if he refuse it : ) for if hè refuse it , the offēded brother is by the mouth of the elders to tell the church . & if he heare the church . & declare the same by pe●…tēt confession , he is recovered & gayned ; & if the church discern him to be willing to hear , yet not fully cōv●…ced of his offence , as in case ●…f heresy ; they are to dispēce to him a publick admonition ; which declaring the offēder to ly under the publ●…ck offence of the church , doth t●…e by with-hold or suspend him from the holy fellowsh●…p of the lords s●…pper , till his offence be removed by penitent cōfession . if he ●…ll 〈◊〉 obstinate they are to call him out by excōn unic●…tion . but if the offēce be more 〈◊〉 at first , & of a more ●…ous 〈◊〉 , to wit , such as are condē●…ed by the light of nature ; then the church w●…thout such graduall proceeding , is to cast out the offender , from ther●… holy cōmunior , for the further mortifying of his 〈◊〉 & the healing of his soule , in the day of the lord jesus . in dealing with an offēder , great care is to be takē , that wee be neither overstrict or rigorous , nor too indulgent or remiss : our proceeding here●… ou●…ht to be with a spirit of ●…ekness , considering our selves l●…st wee also be tēpted ; & that the best of us have need of much forg 〈◊〉 from the lord . yet the winīg & healīg of the offēders soul , being the end of the●…e ēdeavours , wee must not daub with ūtempered morter , nor heal the wounds of our brethren sleightly . on some have comp●…ō others save with fear . while the offender remayns excōmunicate , the church is to refrayn from all member-like communion with him in spirituall things , & also from all familiar cōmuniō with him in civil things , farther then the necessity of natural , or domestical , or civil relatiōs doe require : & are therfore to for bear to eat & drike with him , that he may be 〈◊〉 . excōmunication being a spirituall punishment , it doth not prejudice the excōmunicate in , nor deprive him of his civil rights , & therfore toucheth not princes , or other magistrates , in point of their civil dignity or authority . and , the excōmunicate being but as a publican & a heathen , heathens being lawfully permitted to come to hear the word in church assemblyes ; wee acknowledg therfore the like liberty of hearing the word , may be permitted to persons excommunicate , that is permitted unto heathen . and because wee are not without hope of his recovery , wee are not to account him as an enemy but to admonish him as a brother . if the lord sanctifie the censure to the offender , so as by the grace of christ , he doth testifie his repentance , with humble cōfession of his sinn , & judging of himselfe , giving glory unto god ; the church is then to forgive him , & to comfort him , & to restore him to the wonted brotherly communion , which formerly he injoyed with them . the suffring of prophane or scandalous livers to continue in fellowship , & partake in the sacraments , is doubtless a great sinn in those that have power in their hands to redress it ; & doe it not . nevertheless , inasmuch as christ & his apostles in their times , & the prophets & other godly in theirs , did lawfully partake of the lords commanded ordinances in the jewish church , & neyther taught nor practised seperation from the same , though unworthy ones were permitted therin ; & inasmuch as the faithfull in the church of corinth , wherin were many unworthy persons , & practises , are never commanded to absent themselves from the sacramēts , because of the same : therfore the godly in like cases , are not presently to seperate . as seperation from such a church wherin pr●…phāe & scandalous livers are tolerated , is not presently necessary : so for the members therof , otherwise worthy , hereupon to absta●…n from communicating with such a church , in the participation of the sacraments , is unlawfull . for as it were unreasonable for an in̄ocent person to be punished , for the faults of other , wherin he hath no hand , & wherunto he gave no consent : soe is it more unreasonable , that a godly man should neglect duty , & punish himselfe in not cōming for his portion in the blessing of the seales , as he ought , because others are suffered to come , that ought not : especially , considering that himselfe doth neyther consent to their sinn , nor to their approching to the ordinance in their sinn , nor to the neglect of others who should put them away , & doe not : but on the contrary doth heartily mourn for these things , modestly & seasonably stirr up others to doe their duty . if the church c●…nnot be reformed , they may use their liberty , as is specified , chap . sect : . but this all the godly are bound unto , even every one to do his indeavour , according to his powr & place , that the unworthy may be duely proceeded against , by the church to whom this matter doth appertaine . chap : xv . of the cōmunion of churches one with another . although churches be distinct , & therfore may not be confoūded one with another : & equall , & therfore have not dominion one over another : yet all the churches ought to preserve church-communion one with another , because they are all united unto christ , not only as a mysticall , but as a politicall head ; whence is derived a communion suitable therunto . the communion of churches is exercised sundry wayes . i by way of mutuall care in taking thought for one anothers wellfare .. ii by way of consultation one with another , when wee have occasion to require the judgment & counsell of other churches , touching any person ▪ or cause wherwith they may be better acquainted then our selves . as the church of antioch consulted with the apostles , & elders of the church at ierusalem , about the question of circumcision of the gentiles , & about the false teachers that broached that doctrine . in which case , when any church wanteth light or peace amongst themselves , it is a way of communion of churches ( according to the word ) to meet t●…ether by their elders & other messengers in a synod , to consider & argue the points in doubt , or d●…fference , & haveing found out the way of truth & peace , to commend the same by their letters & messengers to the churches , whom the same may concern . but if a church be rent with divisions amongst themselves , or ly under any open scandal , & yet refuse to consult with other churches , for healing or removing of the same ; it is a matter of just offence both to the lord jesus , & to other churches , as bewraying too much want of mercy & faithfulness , not to seek to bind up the breaches & wounds of the church & brethren ; & therfore the state of such a church calleth aloud upon other churches , to excercise a fuller act of brotherly communion , to witt , by way of admonition . iii a third way then of cōmunion of churches is by way of admonition , to witt , in case any publick offēce be found in a church , which they either discern not , or are slow in proceeding to use the meāes for the removing & healing of . paul had no authority over peter , yet when he saw peter not walking with a right foot , he publickly rebuked him before the church : though churches have no more authority one over another , then one apostle had over another ; yet as one apostle might admonish another , so may one church admonish another , & yet without usurpation . in which case , if the church that lyeth under offence , do not harken to the church which doth admonish her , the church is to aquait other neighbour-churches with that offēce , which the offending church still lyeth under , together with their neglect of the brotherly admonition given unto them ; wherupon those other churches are to joyn in seconding the admonitiō formerly givē : and if still the offēding church continue in obstinacy & impenitency , they may forbear communion with them ; & are to proceed to make use of the help of a synod , or counsell of neighbour-churches walkig orderly ( if a greater can̄ot conveniētly be had ) for their conviction . if they hear not the synod , the synod having declared them to be obstinate , particular churches , approving & accepting of the judgmēt of the synod , are to declare the sentence of non-cōmunion respectively concerning them : & therupon out of a religious care to keep their own communion pure , they may justly withdraw themselves from participation with them at the lords table , & from such other acts of holy cōm●…ion , as the communion of churches doth otherwise allow , & require . nevertheless , if any members of such a church as lyeth under publick offence ; do●… not consent to the offence of the church , but doe in due sort beare witness against it , they are still to be received to wonted communion : for it is not equall , that the in●…cent should suffer with the offensive . yea furthermore ; if such innocent members after due wayting in the use of all good meanes for the healing of the offence of their ●…wn church , shall at last ( with the allowāce of the counsel of ne gh●…our-churches ) withdraw from the fellowship of their own ch●…ch 〈◊〉 offer themselves to the fellowship of another ; wee judge it lawll for the other church to receive them being otherwise fitt ) as if they had been orderly dismissed to them from their own churc●… . iv a fourth way of communion of churches , is by way of particip●…n : the members of one church occasion●…lly comming unto another , wee willingly admitt t●…em to 〈◊〉 with us at the lords t●…le , it being the seale of our communion not only with christ , nor o●…ly with the members of our own church , but also with all the churches of the saints : in which regard , wee refuse not to baptize their children presented to us , if either their own minister be absent , or such a fruite of holy fellowsh●…p be desired with us . in like case s●…ch churches as are furnished with more ministers then one , doe willingly afford one of their own ministers to supply the place of an absent or s●…ck minister of another church for a needfull season . v a fifth way of church-communion is , by way of ●…mendation when a member of one church hath occasion to reside in another church ; if but for a season , wee cōmend him to their watchf●…ll ffellowsh●…p by letters of recommendation : but if he be 〈◊〉 to settle his abode there , wee commit him according to h●…s desire , to the ffellowship of their covenant , by letters of d●…smission . vi a sixt way of church-communion , is in case of ne●… , to minister reliefe & succour one unto another : 〈◊〉 of able members to furnish them with officers : or of outward ●…pport to the necessityes of poorer churches ; as did the 〈◊〉 of the gentiles contribute liberally to the poor s●…ints at ierusalem . when a compāy of beleivers purpose to gather into church fellowship , it is requisite for their sa●…er proceeding , & the maintaining of the communion of churches , that they sign●…fie their intent unto the neighbour-churches , walking according unto the order of the gospel , & desire their presence , & help , & right hand of fellowship which they ought readily to give unto them , when their is no just cause of excepting against their proceedings . besides these severall wayes of communion , there is also a way of propagation of churches ; when a church shall grow too numerous , it is a way , & fitt season , to propagate one church out of an other , by sending forth such of their mēbers as are willing to remove , & to procure some officers to them , as may enter with them into church-estate amongst themselves : as bees , when the hive is too full , issue forth by swarmes , & are gathered into other hives , soe the churches of christ may doe the same upon like necessity ; & therin hold forth to thē the right hand of fellowship , both in their gathering into a church ; & in the ordination of their officers . chap : xvi . of synods . synods orderly assembled , & rightly proceeding according to the pattern , acts. . wee acknowledg as the ordinance of christ : & though not absolutely necessary to the being , yet many times , through the iniquity of men , & perversness of times necessary to the wel-being of churches , for the establishment of truth , & peace therin . synods being spirituall & ecclesiasticall assemblyes , are therfore made up of spirituall & ecclesiasticall causes . the next efficient cause of them under christ , is the powr of the churches , sending forth their elders , other messengers ; who being mett together in the name of christ , are the matter of the synod : & they in argueing , debating & determining matters of religion according to the word , & publishing the same to the churches whom it concerneth , doe put forth the proper & formall acts of a synod ; to the convictiō of errours , & heresyes , & the establishment of truth & peace in the churches , which is the end of a synod . magistrates , have powr to call a synod , by calling to the churches to send f●…rth their elders & other messengers , to counsel & assist them in matters of rel●… 〈◊〉 : ●…t ye●…t the constituting of a synod , is a church act & may be t●…d by the churches , even when civil magistrates may be enemyes to churches & to churchassemblyes . it bel●…ngeth unto synod , & counsel●… , to debate & determine controversies of faith , & ca●… of cons●… ; to cleare from the word holy directions for the ●…ly worsh●…p of god , & good government of the church ; to beare wit●… against ●…al administration & corruption in doctrine or man̄ers in any particular church , & to give directions for the reformation therof : not to exercise church-censures in way of discipline , nor any other act of church-authority or jurisdiction : which that presidentiall synod did forbeare . the synod●… directions & determinations , so farr as consonant to the word of god , are to be received with reverence & submission ; not only for their agreement therwith which is the ●…ncipall ground therof , & without which they bind not at all : ) ●…t also second●…ly , for the powr wherby they are made , as being an ordinance of god appointed therunto in his word . b●… is d●…ficult , if not impossible , for many churches to c●… altogether in one place , ●…n all their●…●…rs universally : therfore they may assemble by their delegates o●… messengers , as the church of antioch went not all to ierusalem , but some select men for that purpose . because none are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be more fitt to know the state of the churches , not to advise of wayes for the good thereof then elders ; therfore it is fitt that in the choice of the messengers for such assemblies , they have special respect ūto such . yet in as much as not only paul & barnabas , but certayn others also were sent to ierusalem from antioch . acts . & when they were come to ierusalem , not only the apostles & elders , but other brethren also doe assemble , & meet about the matter ; therfore synods are to consist both of elders , & other church-members , endued with gifts , & sent by the churches , not excluding the presence of any brethren in the churches . chap : xvii of the civil magistrates powr in matters e●…c●…es●…l . it is lawfull , profitable ▪ & necessary for christians to gather themselves into church estate , & therin to exercise all the ord●… of chr●…st according unto the word , although the consent of magistrate could not be had therunto ; because the apostles & christ●…ans in their time did frequently thus practise , when the magistrates being all of them jewish or pagan , & mostly persecuting enemies , would give no countenance or consent to such matters . church-government stands in no opposition to civil gove●…ment of cōmon-welths , nor any intrencheth upon the authority of civil magistrates in their jurisdictions ; nor any whit weakneth their hand●… in governing ; but rather strengthneth them , & farthereth the people in yielding more hearty & consc●…onable obedience ūt●… the●… , whatsoever some ill affected persons to the wayes of christ have suggested , to alienate the affections of kings & princes from the ordinance of christ ; as if the kingdome of christ in his church could not rise & stand , without the falling & weakning of their government , which is al●…o of christ : wheras the contrary is most true , that they may both stand together & flourish the one being helpfull unto the other , in their distinct & d●… administrations . the powr & authority of magistrates is not for the restra●…ing of churches , or any other good workes , but for helping in & furthering therof ; & therfore the consent & countenance of magistrates when it may be had , is not to be ●…ghted , or lightly esteemed ; but on the contrary ; it is part of that hon●…ur due to christian magistrates to desire & crave their consent & approbation therin : which being obtayned , the churches may then proceed in their way with much more encouragement , & comfort . it is not in the powr of magistrates to compell their s●…bjects to become church-members , & to partake at the lords table : for the priests are reproved , that brought ●…worthy ones into the ●…tuarie : then , as it was unlawfull for the preists , so it is as unlawfull to be done by civil magistrates . those whom the church is to cast out if they were in , the magistrate ought not thrust into the church , nor to hold them therin . as it is unlawfull for church-officers to meddle with the sword of the magistrate , s●… 〈◊〉 it ●…wfull for the magistrate to meddle with the work p●…per to c●…ch officers ▪ the acts of mo●… & dav●…d , who were not only p●… , but p●… , were ex●… ; therfore not ●…ble . ag●…●…n 〈◊〉 the l●…d wit●… , by 〈◊〉 uzz●…h w●… 〈◊〉 , for 〈◊〉 to offer 〈◊〉 it is the duty of the ma●… , to take ●…e of matters of rel●…gion , & to ●…nprove his ●…l autho●…ty for the oble●…ing of the duties commanded in the first , is well as for observing of the duties commanded in the second table they are called gods . the end of the magistrate●… office , is not only the q●… & p●…ble l●…fe of the subj●…t , in 〈◊〉 of rig●… & ho●…ty , but also in matter , of ●…ss yea of all 〈◊〉 m●… j●… , d●… , s●… , asa , jehoshaphat , hezekiah , josiah , are much commended by the holy ghost , for the putting forth their authority in matters of religion : on the contrary , such kings as have been fayling this way , are frequently taxed & reproved by the lord . & not only the kings of judah , but also job , nehe●…h , the king of nin●…veh , darius , artaxerxes , nebucad●…ezar , whom none looked at as types of christ , ( thouh were it soe , there were no place for any just objection , ) are cōmēded in the book of god , for exercising their authority this way . the object of the powr of the magistrate , are not things meerly inward , & ●…o not subject to his cogni●…ance & view , as unbeleife hardness of heart , erronious opinions not vented ; but only such things as are acted by the outward man ; neither is their powr to be exercised , in commanding such acts of the outward man , & punnishig the neglect therof , as are but meer invētions , & devices of men ; but about such acts , as are commanded & forbidden in the word ; yea such as the word doth clearly determine , though not alwayes clearly to the judgment of the magistrate or others , yet clearly in it selfe . in these he of right ought to putt forth his authority , though oft-times actually he doth it not . idolatry , b●…phemy , heresy , venting corrupt & pernicious opinions , that destroy the foundation , open contempt of the word preached , prophanation of the lords day , disturbing the peaceable administration & exercise of the worship & h●…ly things of god , & the like , are to be restrayned , & punished by civil authority . if any church one or more shall grow sc●…smaticall , rending it self from the communion of other churches , or shall walke incor●…gibly or obstinately many corrupt way of their own , contrary to the rule of the word ; in such case the magistrate is to put forth his co●…ve powr , as the matter shall require the tribes on this side 〈◊〉 intended to make warr against the other tribes , for bu●… the altar of witness , whom they suspected to have turned away therin from following of the lord . finis notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- ezek . ●… col. . tim heb●… . . 〈◊〉 exod tim 〈◊〉 tim ●… chron ●… . ex tim v . heb ●… . cor . deut . ezek . kings , king ●… v 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . is●…i . ●… . c●…l ●… 〈◊〉 act●… ●… m●…tt 〈◊〉 cor ●… 〈◊〉 . cor cor cor 〈◊〉 cor cor . acts ●… . notes for div a e- ●…ph & . heb ●… . 〈◊〉 v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●… : tim c 〈◊〉 . eph 〈◊〉 ●… . tim . rev . cor . eph 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . rom 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . ●…hes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . is●… . 〈◊〉 tim ●… . acts . 〈◊〉 . colos . . matt ●… . 〈◊〉 co●… 〈◊〉 . gen. . exod : 〈◊〉 . cor. ●… . cor. . cor. 〈◊〉 . cor : ●… . exo 〈◊〉 : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : . & to 〈◊〉 . acts. . . cor . notes for div a e- 〈◊〉 cor : i●…phe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hebr : . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 cor. 〈◊〉 . rom. ●… ●… . is●… ●… - . ac●… 〈◊〉 . m●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . rom. . cor. 〈◊〉 . phi●…lip . 〈◊〉 . collo●… 〈◊〉 . ●…phes . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 co : ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 & . ezek. ●… . & . 〈◊〉 ch●…p . ●… ●… 〈◊〉 . num 〈◊〉 & . ●…gg . . cor. ●… ps●…l . : cor. 〈◊〉 cor. : & . ier. . cor. 〈◊〉 : ier. . g●… . co●… . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 ●… ●… . 〈◊〉 : ●… ●… notes for div a e- 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & ●… . 〈◊〉 ●… to ps●…l . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . gen . deu . act . & 〈◊〉 . matt . & ●… . psal 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 matt ●… . iohn . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pet . ▪ eph ●…oh 〈◊〉 ●… . notes for div a e- m●…tt 〈◊〉 rev 〈◊〉 . is●… 〈◊〉 . john ●… 〈◊〉 ●… . cor . ●…tus . . 〈◊〉 cor. 〈◊〉 . ro●…●… 〈◊〉 . acts 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ co●… ●… . notes for div a e- 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor 〈◊〉 , ●…phe 〈◊〉 psal ●… . eph . ●…ph ●… c●… 〈◊〉 eph 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 act 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 rom 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 co●… . tim●… , 〈◊〉 , to tit . . ●…ct pet 〈◊〉 . tim phil . acts 〈◊〉 . tim . sph . ●…om ●… , cor tim ●…it 〈◊〉 eph cap 〈◊〉 ●…am 〈◊〉 king 〈◊〉 . notes for div a e- rom 〈◊〉 . tim . cor ●… . 〈◊〉 tim 〈◊〉 tim . . chro. . rev ●… . tim . m●… . cor . act . acts 〈◊〉 . ●… . . acts . . c. . 〈◊〉 cor . heb . , thes . . acts . v . 〈◊〉 thes . . jam. . acts . act . 〈◊〉 . v pail . tim . cor . . tim . . acts . 〈◊〉 c . . c . rom. . . cor . 〈◊〉 c. . . . cor . eph . . acts . matt . 〈◊〉 tim . . . notes for div a e- heb. . galat 〈◊〉 . acts . cap . 〈◊〉 tim . c p acts . cap . act . c . . c . . . gal . hebr. . rom. . cant. . . notes for div a e- acts. ●… . 〈◊〉 cap . tim. . n●…m . . act . . cap . . acts. . . cap . notes for div a e- matt. . tim. . hebr. . 〈◊〉 thes. . rom. . tim. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 cor. . . hebr. . . acts. . cap . num. . ezek. . acts. . ●…osh . . . rev. . tim. . acts. . . 〈◊〉 cor. . . num. . . ●…o . acts. . vi . ●… . c . 〈◊〉 cor. . cor. . . hebr. . 〈◊〉 notes for div a e- cor. . ●… . matt. ●… . c . ●… tim. . gala. . . cor. . 〈◊〉 vers. . tim. . rom . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 cor. . . gala. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. . galat. . act. . . neh. . ●… ●…say . . 〈◊〉 cor. . 〈◊〉 , notes for div a e- chron. . . mat. . . & . acts. . rev. . acts . ●… rev. ●… . ●… ch●… . act . ●… 〈◊〉 . c matt . . acts : . ro●… . matt . . isay ●… . . psa●…●… . pe●…●… . 〈◊〉 , ●…ebr . 〈◊〉 ●…phe . 〈◊〉 . matt. . , gallat . . 〈◊〉 tim. . c●…nt . . matt. . 〈◊〉 cor. . notes for div a e- hebr. . ●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . prov. . rom . 〈◊〉 . tim . . acts . . ephe. 〈◊〉 . ●… acts . ●… . & ver . ●… chap ●… nehe ●… . tim . ●… r●…m . jude . . 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . ▪ 〈◊〉 is●…y . acts . 〈◊〉 cor. ●… . ●… 〈◊〉 . ●… . rom . . 〈◊〉 c●…r . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●… . co●…l . . rom. . 〈◊〉 c●…r . . . notes for div a e- 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . jude . . d●…ut . . cor. . r●…m . . ●… rev. . . . . & ●… mat. . , 〈◊〉 lu●… . ●… . . 〈◊〉 matt. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 v 〈◊〉 v 〈◊〉 tit. 〈◊〉 . ●… matt. . 〈◊〉 cor . 〈◊〉 . & v 〈◊〉 galat. . 〈◊〉 . matt ●… . ▪ ●… . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 e●…ek . ●… jer. 〈◊〉 . matt . . 〈◊〉 co●… . . the . . . cor , . thes. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor . , ●…ev 〈◊〉 . , ●… . ver. mat . . acts . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. chap . ●… chron. . gen . ●… . ●…t ezek ▪ 〈◊〉 notes for div a e- rev . c●…nt . . . rom . . cor . 〈◊〉 acts . ●… rev . 〈◊〉 c●…nt . . act●… . 〈◊〉 acts . . ver : . 〈◊〉 ezek . . g●…ll . 〈◊〉 ●…o . math . . . . by ●…portion gen . . cor ●… . rom . . acts . acts . vers . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . . . 〈◊〉 . . . & . by proportion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●… . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , . notes for div a e- acts . . ●… ●… . acts , ●…cts . ●…cts . to vers . acts . 〈◊〉 chron ●… . . to . acts . acts . , . 〈◊〉 cl●… ●… . ●… . 〈◊〉 ch●… . 〈◊〉 . act. . vers 〈◊〉 . acts. . acts ●… . acts 〈◊〉 vers , . notes for div a e- act . ●… . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 john ●… . ●… acts . . is●…y . . rom . . 〈◊〉 tim . . ●…ek . . 〈◊〉 cor . matth . , . 〈◊〉 c●… . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●… kings . . c . 〈◊〉 king . c . . c . . kings ●… . . job . . c . . ●… . ne ●… jon 〈◊〉 . . ezr●… . d●…n . ●… . kings . ●… . vers . deut . kings ●… . ●… . vers . d●… 〈◊〉 . . z●…ch . . neh . . tim . . ro●… . . jo●… . a tryall of the nevv-church vvay in new-england and in old ... by that learned and godly minister of christ, john ball of whitmore ; penned a little before his death and sent over to the new england ministers, anno , as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions ... ; now published ... by william rathband and simeon ash. ball, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing t estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a tryall of the nevv-church vvay in new-england and in old ... by that learned and godly minister of christ, john ball of whitmore ; penned a little before his death and sent over to the new england ministers, anno , as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions ... ; now published ... by william rathband and simeon ash. ball, john, - . rathband, william, d. . ashe, simeon, d. . letter of many ministers in old england requesting the judgement of their reverend bretheren in new england. [ ], p. printed by t. paine and m. simmons for thomas underhill ..., london : . a reissue, with cancel t.p., of a letter of many minsters in old england, requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions. london, . reproduction of original in harvard university libraries. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church polity. congregational churches -- doctrines. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - judith siefring sampled and proofread - judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a tryall of the nevv-chvrch vvay in new-england and in old . wherein are handled these questions following . . whether a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie be unlawfull . . whether it be unlawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments where a stinted liturgie is used . . whether the children of godly and approved christians , be not to be baptized till their parents be set-members of some particular congregation . . whether the parents themselves being of approved pietie , ought not to be received to the lords supper , untill they be first admitted as set-members . . whether the power of excommunication , &c. be so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow , that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and part of the assembly be of another minde , and peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . . whether those that are admitted as set-members , ought not to depart or remove , without the consent of that congregation whereof they are members . . whether a minister be so a minister to a particular congregation , that if they dislike , or leave him , he utterly ceaseth to be a minister . . whether a minister may not performe ministeriall acts to another congregation then his owne . . whether members of one congregation , may not communicate in another . by that learned and godly minister of christ , john ball , of whitmore . penned a little before his death , and sent over to the new england ministers , anno . as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions . now published ( by occasion mentioned in the epistle to the reader following in the next page ) upon the desire of many godly and faithfull ministers , in and about the citie of london , who love and seek the truth . by william rathband and simeon ash . thes . . . prove all things , hold fast that which is good . london : printed by t. paine and m. simmons , for thomas vnderhill in great wood-street , . to the reader . good reader , vpon the receipt of the answer returned unto the nine positions , master ball moved by the request of brethren , drew up this reply , which upon perusall and joynt approbation , was directed unto the reverend elders of the severall churches in new england . the reply sent miscarrying in the hand , to which it was committed , though both letters and printed bookes trusted in the same hand were delivered : hereupon another copie was from new england desired , and accordingly prepared in the yeare following . in the meane time , the answer being tendered to the presse , it was judged more meete to keepe the reply in readinesse to attend the publishing of the answer , then to part with it in the other way . this intelligence was the last yeare conveyed into new england , since which time , there hath been an expectation to see that in print , which now is sent abroad to open view . by this relation it is manifest who are voluntiers , and who are pressed to come forth as defendants , in these controversies . these differences betwixt the loving brethren of old england and new , had not been made thus notorious , if some who cry up the church way in new england , as the only way of god , had not been forward , to blow them abroad in the world . but surely the providence of god is remarkeable in bringing these questions into debate at this time , when the ministers of the gospell from all the counties in the kingdome are called together by both houses of parliament , to consult about the healing of our breaches , which are very many and dangerous : the copie of this reply being committed to our custodie we are necessitated to appeare in the publication of it : yet we shall preface nothing concerning the treatise it selfe , because our known respects to the reverend and judicious author will render us partiall , and our testimony can adde no credit to his works , which withall indifferent readers will plead sufficiently for their own acceptance . if this discourse shall adde any discovery of light unto them , who desire a sound judgement in the controversies here agitated , our end is obtained , and our prayers answered , who are . thy servants in and for the truth , simeon ash , william rathband . the letter of those ministers in england , who requested to know the judgement of their brethren in new england , in nine positions , wherein the reasons , of this their request , are truly reported . ( reverend and beloved brethren ) whiles we lived together in the same kingdome , we professed the same faith , joyned in the same ordinances , laboured in the worke of god to gaine soules unto his kingdome , and maintained the puritie of worship against corruptions , both on the right hand and on the left . but since your departure into new england , we heare ( and partly beleeve it ) that divers have embraced certaine vain opinions , such as you disliked formerly , and we judge to be groundlesse and unwarrantable . as that a stinted forme of prayer , and set liturgie is unlawfull ; that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or to receive the sacrament , where a stinted liturgie is used . . that the children of godly and approved christians are not to be baptized , untill their parents bee set members of some perticular congregation . . that the parents themselves , though of approved piety are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they bee admitted as set members . . that the power of excommunication ▪ &c. is so in the body of the church that what the major part shall allow , that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and part of the assembly be of another minde , and peradventure , upon more substantiall reasons . . that none are to be admitted as set members , but they must promise , not to depart , or remove unless the congregation will give leave . . that a minister is so a minister to a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him , he ceaseth to be a minister . . that a minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another cogregation . . that members of one congregation may not communicate in another . these and other such like ( which we omit to reckon up ) are written and reported to be the common tenents in new england , which are received with great applause , maintained with great confidence , and applauded as the only church way wherein the lord is to be worshipped . and letters from new england have so taken with divers in many parts of this kingdome , that they have left our assemblies because of a stinted liturgie , and excommunicated themselves from the lords supper because such as are not debarred from it . and being turned aside themselves , they labour to ensnare others , to the griefe of the godly , the scandall of religion , the wounding of their owne soules ( if they did advisedly consider the matter ) and great advantage of them , that are wily to espy , and ready to make use of all advantages to prejudice the truth . ( beloved brethren ) if you stood in our places , we are well assured it would be no small griefe unto you , to beare and see the people led aside to the disgrace of the gospell , upon weake and groundlesse imaginations , and in rash end inconsiderate zeale to deale with that which is of god , as if it were of man. and if it be to us griefe of heart to heare that you have changed from that truth which you did professe , and embrace that for truth which in former times upon sound grounds you did condemne as erroneous , we hope you will not be offended . you know how oft it hath beene objected that non-conformists in practice are separatists in heart , but that they goe crosse to their own positions , or smother the truth for sinister ends . they of the separation boast that they stand upon the non-conformists grounds . a vainglorious flourish and sleight pretence . but both these are much countenanced by your sudden change if you be changed , as it is reported . how shall your brethren bee able to stand up in the defence of their innocencie , and the uprightnesse of their cause , when your example and opinion shall be cast in their dish ? must they leave you now , with whom they have held society ? or will you plead for separation , which you have condemned as rash and inconsiderate ? you know that thy who have run this way , have fallen into manifold divisions , and may not you justly feare , lest the same befall you ? some warnings you have had already , and have you not cause to feare every day more and more ? errour is very fruitfull and will spread apace . a cracke in the foundation may occasion a wide breach in the building , where there will not be means , or mind to amend it . experience every day may tutour us herein . but to let passe all inconveniences , our request in all meeknesse and love is , that if these or any of the forementioned opinions be indeed your tenents , you would be pleased to take a second review of your grounds , and send us your strongest reasons that have swayed you in these matters : and if we shall find them upon due examination to be such as will carry weight , we shall be ready to give you the right hand of fellowship ; if otherwise you shall receive our just and modest animadversions in what we conceive you have erred from the truth . you will not iudge , if we cannot apprehend the strength of your grounds it is because we love not the truth ▪ or bee carryed with by-spects ( though these conceipts prevaile too much : ) such rigid and harsh censures , cannot lodge in meeke and humble breasts . weighty reasons promote the truth not unadvised judging . you your selves have judged that to be errour , which now you take to be truth when yet you were not blinded with by re-respects , nor hudwinked your eyes , that you might not see the light . and if you have just warrant from god to pull downe what you have builded , and to build what you have pulled downe , we desire you would lovingly and maturely impart it , for as yet we have seene none , which we are not ready to prove , and shew by the rule of truth to be too weake to carry any burthen . we adore with you the fulnesse of the scripture , and we know the counsell of the lord shall stand : if you can shew that you walke in the wayes of god , we shall heartily rejoyce to walke with you : but if you have turned aside , we shall earnestly desire that you would be pleased seriously to consider the matter , and speedily reforme , what is out of order . thus not doubting of your favourable interpretation of this our motion , for the preventing of distraction , maintenance of peace , and searching out of the truth , whereby we may be directed to live to the praise of god , the good of his people , and comfort of our soules , beseeching god to lead and guide us into all truth and holinesse , and keepe us blamelesse untill his glorous appearance , we rest your loving brethren . an epistle written by the elders of the churches in new-england , to those godly ministers fore-mentioned that sent over the positions . reverend and beloved brethren : in these remote coasts of the earth , whereunto the good hand of god hath brought us , as we doe with much comfort of heart call to mind the many gracious blessings , which both with you , and from you , we injoyed in our christian and holy communion , ( the memory and fruit whereof we hope shall never be blotted out ) so we have also seen cause to looke back to our former administrations there , and to search and trie our wayes ; that wherein soever we have formerly gone astray , we might judge our selves for it before the lord : and that seeing now god hath set before us an open doore of libertie , wee might neither abuse our libertie in the gospel , to runne out into any groundlesse unwarrantable courses , nor neglect the present opportunitie to administer ( by the helpe of christ ) all the holy ordinances of god , according to the patterne set before us in the scripture ; in our native countrey , when we were first called to the ministery , many of us tooke some things to be indifferent and lawfull , which in after-times we saw to be sinfull , and durst not continue in the practise of them there ; afterwards some things that we bare as burthens , that is , as things inexpedient though not utterly unlawfull ; we have no cause to retain and practise the same things here , which would not have been not onely inexpedient , but unlawfull : such things as a man may tollerate when he cannot remove them , hee cannot tollerate without sinne , when he may remove them ; besides some things we practised there ( which wee speak to our shame and griefe ) which we never took into serious consideration whether they were lawfull , and expedient or no , but took them for granted , and generally received ; not onely by the most reformed churches , but by the most godly and judicious servants of god amongst them ; which neverthelesse when we came to weigh them in the ballance of the sanctuarie , we could not find sufficient warrant in the word to receive them , and establish them here : of one of these three kinds will these our present practises appeare to be , which you call our new opinions , or , innovations here ; except it be some few of them , which though they have been reported to you to be our judgements and practises , yet are indeed farre from us : the particulars are too many , and too weightie to give you account of them , and the ground of our proceedings about them in a letter . but to give you ( if it be the will of god ) the better satisfaction , we have sent you a short treatise touching each particular , that according to your desire you might understand from us how farre we do acknowledge any of these tenents , and upon what ground , hoping that according to your promise , if upon due examination you shall find any weight in them , you will give us the right hand of fellowship . but if otherwise , you will send us your just and faithfull animadversions , and we doe not suspect your loves to the truth , or your sincere speaking according to your conscience in the sight of god , neither taxe we you as siding from the truth with by-respects , whereof you complain , verily we abhorre such rash , harsh , and presumptuous notoriousnesse , we see as much cause to suspect the integritie of our own hearts , as yours ; and so much the more , as being more privie to the deceitfulnesse of our own hearts then to yours . and we cannot but with much thankfulnesse of heart acknowledge the many rich precious treasures of his grace , wherewith the lord hath furnished sundrie of you above your brethren , which causeth us with great reverence to accept , and receive what further light god may be pleased to impart unto us by you ; but as we have beleeved , so have we hitherto practised , and so have most of us spoken this our answer to your particulars , most of us we may say , because there wants not some brethren amongst us who proceed further , even to looke at all set formes of prayer invented by men of another age or congregation , and prescrib●d to their brethren to be read out of a book for the prayers of the church , as images , or imaginations of men , forbidden in the second commandement ; but as we leave them to their libertie of their own judgements without prejudice , so do we also concurre with the rest of them , so farre as we all goe in bearing witnesse against any set formes , or the corruptions in them ; in dispatching whereof , we have been the more slow because it behoved us first to inquire into , and to settle some controversies amongst our selves , before we could well attend to entertaine discourse about forraigne questions which do not so neerely concerne our present estate and practise . besides your letters being sent to the ministers of the churches , and some of us dwelling farre a sunder , it was not an easie thing for all of us often to meet together to consider of these questions , much lesse to resolve upon one just answer . but having at length ( by the assistance of god ) brought our answers to this issue , we commend it to the blessing of the lord , and in him to your christian , and judicious consideration ; where if all things bee found safe , and duely warranted from scripture grounds ; do you also as seemeth vigilant watchmen of the lords flock , and faithfull witnesses to god ; if any thing seeme doubtfall to you , consider and weigh it very well before you reject it : if any thing appeare to be unfound , and dissnant from the word ( which we for our parts cannot disterne ) we shall willingly attend to what further light god may send unto us by you : in the meane while wee intreat you in the lord , not to suffer such apprehensions to lodge in your minds , which you intimate in your letters ; as if we here justified the wayes of riged separation , which sometimes amongst you we have formerly borne witnesse against ▪ and so build againe the things we have destroyed ; you know they separate from your congregations , as no churches ; from the ordinances dispensed by you as meere antichristian , and from your selves as no visible christians . but wee professe unfainedly , we separate from the corruptions which we conceive to be left in your churches , and from such ordinances administred therein as we feare are not of god , but of men ; and for your selves , we are so farre from separating as from no visible christians , as that you are under god in our hearts ( if the lord would suffer it ) to live and die together ; and we looke at sundrie of you as men of that eminent growth in christianitie , that if there be any visible christians under heaven , amongst you are the men , which for these many yeeres have been written in your foreheads ( hoiinesse to the lord ) which we speake not to prejudice any truth which our selves are here taught and called to professe , but we still beleeve though personall christians may be eminent in their growth of christianitie : yet churches had still need to grow from apparent defects to puritie ; and from reformation to reformation , age after age , till the lord have utterly abolished antichrist with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his comming to the full and cleare revelation of all his holy truth ; especially touching the ordering of his house and publick worship ; as a pledge of this our estimation of you , and sincere affection to you , we have sent you these answers to your demand , and shall be readie , by the help of christ , to receive back againe from you , wise , and just , and holy advertisements in the lord. now the lord god , and father of our lord jesus christ , your lord , and ours ; lead us all unto all truths , purge out all leaven out of his churches , and keepe us blamelesse and harmlesse in his holy faith and feare , to his heavenly kingdome , through him that hath loved us ; in whom we rest , your very loving brethren , the elders of the churches in new-england . reverend and dearely beloved brethren , it is not to be doubted but while we live here , we shall have just cause to search and try our ways , look back upon former courses , and call things done to more strict examination . for being over-clouded with ignorance , compassed about with infirmities , and beset with many temptations to sinne , knowing what we know best , but darkly and in part , no marvell , if in many things we offend ignorantly , of frailty for want of due consideration , rashly mistaking errour for truth , condemning truth for errour , suspecting evill without cause , and not suspecting where is just reason , drawing erronious conclusions from sound principles , and maintaining truths upon weak grounds ; so that in examination of our wayes , and endevours of their reformation wee had need to looke warily , that wee turn not to the right hand or to the left , for in the one we add to the word of god , as well as in the other , and of our selves are apt to strike aside to both . a loose conscience will be profane , a tender , scrupulous . it stands us therefore upon to have our selves in suspition , in as much as experience teacheth that many have swerved from the path of found peace and comfort on each hand . wherefore ( beloved brethren ) if since your comming into new england , upon serious review of former actions you have discovered any truths heretofore not taken notice of , we shal be so far from rejecting them because of your former judgment and practice , that we shall heartily desire to know and imbrace the same with you , and blesse god for you as the happy instruments of his glory , our instruction & the advancement of the truth . but if the discoveries be of the like nature with the positions mentioned in the letter ; as before , so still , we conceive them to be new opinions , and not warranted by scripture , which is the true antiquity . opinions we say , not practices , for not changing your opinion , you might lawfully alter your practice ; nay , what you did tolerate formerly as a burthen , in case not free , you might well forgoe being at your liberty . your judgement being the same , you might use your liberty in forbearance of a set liturgie , and yet retaine the same judgement of a stinted liturgie , that you had before ; you might forbeare for a time upon speciall reason ( such as present state and occasion might suggest ) to receive to the sacrament approved christians , not set members of a particular congregation ; as some brethren do ) who yet dare not think it unlawfull to communicate with such in the act of worship , or deem it just and right altogether to debar them , as having no right nor title to those priviledges of this church . it is your opinions whereto we had respect not simply your practice . it never entred into us to perswade you to a set liturgy , much lesse to complain that you had not accepted ours . but that all stinted liturgies should be condemned as devised worship , and so condemned as that none may lawfully be present at , or pertake of the sacraments administred in a stinted or devised forme , this wee called a new opinion . neither do we mention it because we knew it to be the private opinion of some brethren among you , whom we had left to the liberty of their owne judgment , so far as the maintenance of the truth , and a just call did not ingage us : but because it was cryed up , and advanced with all diligence , and endeavour of some among us standing affected england-ward , as if a chief point of holinesse consisted in separation . you know how great a fire a little sparkle kindles . and seeing this distraction and rent had its originall , growth and continuance from some brethren in those parts , or affected to that way , when in loving and friendly manner we could neither receive grounds at home for our conviction , nor procure just satisfaction to the contrary ; what could wee doe lesse then call upon you joyntly to know your judgment , and either by sound proof to be by you convinced ( if happily you should approve their separation ( which we esteem groundlesse , rash , unlawfull , and prejudiciall to outward peace ) or being backed by a testimony of its dislike from you , we might the better be both incouraged , and furnished to endevour the quenching of that fire which was kindled but in too many places , in other perticulars also , wee conceive , you goe beyond commission given of god : granting them authority to whom god hath not committed it , debarring others from the priviledge of the sacraments , who have title thereto by the covenant of grace . your love in that you were pleased to signifie first your kinde and respective acceptance of our letter , and now also to send us an answer thereto , we acknowledge it with all thankfulnesse , and shall endevour ( through the grace of god ) to return like affection in truth of heart , if in measure we fall short . of your respect to us in particular , we make no question , your expressions are beyond that we could expect , as also what we dare own . but we humbly beseech the lord to direct , uphold , and guide us , that in some measure we may walk worthy of our vocation , and approve our selves faithfull to your consciences . it was one end of our writing to be satisfied in this point , whether you approve the ways of separation ( whereof wee complain ) and their courses who laboured with all their might , when they conceived hope to be heard to perswade thereunto . against which ( if we knew your judgment ) you testified among us . you know they that separate are not all of one straine and temper . some deny all communion with us publick and private , some admit of private , but deny all publick , and some joyne in prayer before , and after sermon , as also preaching of the word ( because in their esteeme , this may be done without communion in a church-way ) but refuse to partake of the sacraments . all which separations wee judge uncharitable , contrary to the commandement of christ , and have ever thought that you ( whilst with us ) and we were of one minde herein . if of late we have conceived fears of some of you ( deere brethren ) as leaning too much to what formerly you disliked , we beseech you weigh what urgent and pressing reasons forced us thereunto , and we shall most gladly ( wee heartily desire you to rest assured ) lay hold of every line and syllable , that may tend to dislodge such apprehensions . for as we conceive , the dispute to be unreasonably moved , the rent offensive , the opinions themselves prejudiciall to the cause of god , and the advancers thereof to have passed the limits prescribed by god ; so wee shall esteem it an inestimable blessing , if ( now what hinders being removed ) wee might joyn with one heart and soule , in one way of god to promote his glory , and seek the good of his church and people . we trust in the lord , we should not draw back in any course wherein wee may see the lord going before us , nor be an offence to any to keep the lords way ; wee seek the truth , and are perswaded it is the cause of god which we defend : we plead for communion with the churches of christ , no further then they hold communion with christ , still desiring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , with your selves and all others , who walke in the right way of truth , peace and comfort . how the lord may be pleased to deale with us , or dispose of us wee know not ( his blessed will be done . ) but of this we are resolved , through his grace , not willingly to raise trouble or dissention among you , if through ignorance or infirmity we shall not so fall in , as to be of one minde with you in these matters . and here we desire you to consider that in these particulars you dissent as much one from another as we dissent from you , and that wherein we dissent from you ( and perhaps from the lesser part of you ) you dissent from the judgement and practice of all reformed churches . this wee speake not to prejudice your cause , but to intreat your serious re-exmination of what you have sent us , and this tryall thereof , by the touchstone of the word . for if we mistake not , in many things it will not abide the test . you have written in great love and tendernesse , that your positions might be so scanned , and wee shall endeavour with such affection to try all things , and hold fast that which is good . and now ( beseeching the guidance of the spirit ) with your leave , wee shall endeavour to deale fully and plainly , as the nature of the cause requireth , intreating you impartially to consider the grounds whereupon we , go and weigh what wee shall say in the ballance of the sanctuary . the lord of his rich mercy in jesus christ , direct us in discerning what is right and pleasing in his sight , cast offences out of the church , close up rents and divisions , reveal his truth more and more , set up and mayntain the purity of his own ordinances , unite the hearts of his people to the love and feare of his holy name , teach us self-deniall , and keep us blamelesse to the comming of the lord jesus christ . amen . i position . that a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie is unlawfull . answ . before we proceed to declare our selves concerning this position : it will be needfull that some things be premised , for the explication of the terms thereof . we suppose , by a liturgy and forme of prayer , you mean not a forme of private prayers composed for the helpe and direction of weaker christians : but the system or body of publike prayers generally used in the english parishes , complied for the churches use by other men not infallibly guided by god , to be said or read out of a book by their ministers as the churches prayers . and that this is your meaning , may appeare from your letter it self , wherein you complain that divers in many parts of that kingdome have left their assemblies , because of a stinted liturgy . now we know not of any other stinted liturgy from which the people do absent themselves , but onely that which is in use in the english churches . for as for a forme of prayer in generall , wee conceive your meaning cannot be of that . for it is evident that many preachers constantly use one set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , with whom the people refuse not to joyn . by stinted and set , you mean such prayers , as are so imposed upon the churches and ministers , as that they are limited to that very form of words expressed in the book without addition , diminution , or alteration ; for that liturgy and forme among you , is in this sense set and stinted . by unlawfull , you mean that we looking at that form , as swerving from the rule ; neither dare first practice it our selves , not secondly approve the use of it by others . this being the true state of the question , so far as it appears to us , from the letter . we answer , for our own practice , the churches here doe not use any stinted forme of prayer and set liturgy , for these and other such reasons . because we finde no necessity of any stinted liturgy to be used among us , by vertue of any divine precept . and seeing the commission of the apostles limited them , to teach men to observe and do onely what christ did command them in matters of this nature , math. . . who are we and what are our churches , that we should presume above this commission ? and , we hope , it will not be offensively taken by any godly brethren , that we stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free in this , as well as in all other things . secondly , because the lawfulnesse of set forms and stinted liturgies is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god : whereas for church-officers to edifie the churches by their own gifts , as well in praying as in preaching , all sorts without controversie grant it to be lawfull . now spirituall prudence guideth believers , when two ways are set before them , one doubtfull though ventured on by some , the other certainly safe and good , though neglected by many , to choose that which is safe , declining the other . thirdly , because primitive paterns of all the churches of god in their best times ( when as touching this point they kept the rule in their eye ) whether jewish before christ , or christian above a yeers after christ , yield not the least footstep to shew us another safe way to walk in , then this which we have chosen . as for after times towards the end of the second , and beginning of the third century , we know how far the churches were then degenerated and declined from the first purity ; neither do we marvell at it , seeing in the apostles time the mystery of iniquity began to work , and it was then foretold , that the power of godlinesse would be in aftertimes exchanged for empty formes . in which respect , we look not at them as our guides neither in this , nor other particulars not warranted by the rule , herein following the advise of cyprian , who himself saw the corruption of those times , non est attendendum quid aliquis ante nos faciendum putaverit , sed quid qui ante omnes est christus fecerit & faciendum praeceperit . to conclude , seeing our christian liberty freeth us from binding our selves to any religious observances , whereunto the written word doth not bind us . and seeing spirituall prudence directs us to choose those ways , which on all hands are confessed to be s●fe , avoiding those that be doubtfull and hazardous . and seeing it will not be safe for us , needlesly to swerve from the constant practice of all churches that are recorded in scripture , and there held forth as a cloud of witnesses for us to follow in matters of this nature , wee therefore may not , doe not , dare not use set forms of prayers and stinted liturgies in these churches . more particularly , in that we doe not use that forme of prayer and stinted liturgy , which is in use among your selves : these and such other like reasons have induced us thereunto . the many and just exceptions whereunto that liturgy is lyable both for matter and manner ; for the proofe whereof wee referre you to those faithfull servants of god , who have gone before us in witnessing against the same : amongst others to master cartwright and the abridgment . in as much as that liturgy was never commanded of god , and hath been greatly abused to idolatry and superstition , and is not of any necessary use , and therefore we are affraid to bring it into the worship of god , as knowing the jealousie of the lord , in matters of this nature ; exod. . and how strictly hee commandeth his people , that all monuments and remnants of idolatry and superstition should be abolished from among them , deut. . , . exod. . . esay . ● . cor. . . in which respect the holy ghost hath greatly commended iacob , david , iehu , hezechia and iosiah , for taking away the remembrance of such things , gen. . , . psal . . . king . , . & . . & . all the chapter . and where other kings of iudah came short of the like zeale , the scripture notes it as a blemish in them that the high places were not taken away , albeit the people did not sacrifice in them to false gods , but onely to the lord , chron. . . & . . & . . yea , moreover , it appeareth by the scripture , that somethings that had a good originall and use ( if they be not still necessary and commanded of god ) are unlawfull when once they are knowne to be defiled by idolatry , and abused to it , king. . . hos . . , . as the brazen serpent was at the first an institution though but temporary : but when the children of israel burned incense to it . hezechiah , is commended for breaking it in pieces , and the lord witnesseth of him that he did that which was right in the sight of the lord , and according to his commandement , which he commanded moses , king. . , . how much more in the like case ought other things to be removed , which never were commanded of god , but onely were devised by men ? and that that liturgy hath been supertitiously abused , may be cleer to any that shall consider that it is the same for substance that was used in the days of poperty . and therefore when the papists in devonshire and cornwall , had made a commotion and rebellion upon the change of religion , in the days of king edward the sixth . it was told them by the king , for the pacifying of them : that it was the self-same service in english , which had been before in latine : and if the service of the church was good in latine , it remayneth good in english , for nothing is altered : fox acts and monuments , edward . and pope pius the fifth did see so little variation in it from the latine service , that had been formerly used in that kingdome , that he would have ratified it by his authority , if q. elizabeth would have so received it . and many of the people put such holinesse in it , that they think god is not rightly worshipped , nor his sabbath well observed , nor the sacraments sufficiently administred , if there be no reading of that service . and others put such holinesse and necessity in it , that they preferre it before gods holy ordinance of preaching the word . in so much as the ministers are in the danger of being called in question , and of being censured , if they doe not read that liturgy every lords day without omitting any part thereof , either in respect of preaching or otherwise . in regard of the many wofull scandals , and dangerous consequences of using that liturgie , of which we suppose you are not ignorant . to mention but two , viz. the hardning of papists who are imboldned to think better of their own breviaries , masse-books , portuisses , seeing that liturgie hath bin extracted out of those books , and rather fetched from them then from the forms used in any of the reformed churches . the conntenancing and establishing of an unlearned idol ministery , of not-preaching curates , non-residents , pluralities , &c. in whose skirts is to be found the blood of so many mens souls living and dying in their sins , while they ignorantly content themselves with , and harden themselves in some empty forms of religion and blinde devotion , which are begotten and cherished chiefely by such prayers and ministers . neither is there lesse scandall hereby ( we meane not onely taken but given ) then by the eating of an idolathite , in the idols temple condemned by the apostle cor. . . for if the eating of an idolathite by him that had knowledge , and knew that an idol was nothing , and that all meats were lawfull , did imbolden others to honour the idol , and therefore was a scandall given , so also it is in this case . seeing that booke is so imposed as that the minister in reading of it , is limited to the very words set downe without any diminution , addition , or alteration ; therefore we dare not use it . for the lord himselfe hath not limited his people to his own formes and therefore we see not , how it can be lawfull to be limited to other mens formes ; for in thus doing we should subject our selves to the exercise of such an authority and power of the prelates , as in this case puts forth a stronger act of limiting power then christ himselfe , who doth not limit us to those formes , which himselfe hath set downe in scripture : for though we acknowledge the lords prayer and other formes set down in scripture , may be lawfully used as prayers ( due cautions being observed ) yet there is not a limitation lying upon the churches in the use of those prayers . and therefore we do not find that the apostles ever used that form taught by christ in those very words , much lesse limited themselvs to it , when they prayed , nor did they teach the churches so to doe . if the lord would not have us limit our selves in our own forms , whiles we are exercising our own gifts ( which he hath specially sanctified to edify his church act. . . eph. . . cor. . . ) least we should quench or at least straiten his spirit in prayer , thes . . . would he then have us limited to other mens forms , which have not beene in like sort sanctified of god , but will rather quench or straiten the spirit of god , whiles we are so limited to them ? the entertainment of this form hath been a manifest snare unto the churches who upon the same ground on which they have received this forme into the desks have beene limited to others in the pulpit , by meanes whereof the poore church of christ hath bin wholly deprived of the publike use of the ministers gifts in prayer , and the spirit of prayer in the ministers in publike , hath beene greatly restrained . as for our judgement concerning the practice of others , who use this liturgie in our native countrie , we have alwayes beene unwilling to expresse our mindes there against unlesse we have been necessarily called thereunto , and at this time we thinke it not expedient to expresse our selves any further concerning this matter , as loath to intermeddle with the affaires of other churches , but contenting our selves with , and blessing the lord for those liberties , which we , by the mercie of god , do here enjoy , reserving also due reverence to the judgements of our beloved brethren and deere countreymen , who may concerning this matter be otherwise minded . reply . this position cannot beare that meaning which you give it , if you take it according , o our mindes , and the plain construction of the words . we never questioned why you made not use of a stinted liturgy , much lesse why you did not wholly and in every part tye your selves unto , and approve of that forme in use amongst us . you might well thinke we had little to doe to put forth such a demand , viz. whether you thinke it lawfull to approve in others and practice your selves , what swerveth from the rule , and we thinke it strange you should give our words such a meaning . the thing we craved resolution in was , whether in your judgements all stinted and set formes of prayer and liturgies be unlawfull . the reason hereof was because in writings from new-england , we had seene all set liturgies , and set formes of prayer condemned as devised worship which god would not accept , and partaking in the sacraments of the supper in our assemblies , therefore disallowed , because administred in a stinted liturgie , which things were received with such likeing among some brethren with us , and by them imparted and recommended to others , that they occasioned that rent and distraction whereof we complain . it is true , the people among us separate from our forme of prayer or liturgy , but the reason hereof is because it is stinted , not because this or that or ours in particular . you confesse you want not some brethren among you who look at all set formes of prayer invented by one of another age or congregation , and prescribed to their brethren , to be read out of a booke for the prayers of the church , as images and imaginations of man forbidden in the second commandement , and that the lawfulnesse of liturgies , and set formes is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god such also as come over occasionally , who withdraw themselvs from the sacraments in the congregation , doe it on this pretence , that a stinted liturgie is a humane invention . and if we examine the reasons brought against stinted formes and liturgies , we shall finde them to strike at all formes and liturgies though devised by men of the same age and congregation , and to be used but now and then , or but once on set purpose , and that either in publike or in private , as elsewhere we may have occasion to shew . you say it is evident , many preachers constantly use a set forme of prayer of their own making before their sermons , with whom the people refuse not to joyne ; and you know ( we doubt not ) that such set formes are disliked also . and if the grounds be examined ( in our understanding ) they make as much against the one as the other . view but the reasons why you admit not a stinted liturgie and forme of prayer , and see whether the two last will not in the same terms directly conclude gainst both . but what ever is to be thought herein , or whether mens practises agree with their opinions we now dispute not . this is plaine and manifest , that mens opinions are to be judged by their expresse words and reasons , not by their practises . the brownists ( as they are commonly called ) can separate from no stinted liturgie amongst us , but that which is in use , and for ought we know they may joyne with their owne pastors , though they oft use the same forme of prayer in whole or in part , in thanksgiving before meat , or in prayer before sermon , or the like . and yet their opinion is that all stinted liturgies and set formes of prayer be unlawfull , humane inventions forbidden by the second commandement . but if any thing had beene left doubtfull in the letter , that it might be strained to another sence , either because we were short in expression , or many of you not informed in the passages which gave occasion to the question , it is well knowne what the words meane in ordinary construction . and we doubt not but many brethren among you , might and could fully informe you of our meaning that there need no such straining to find it out . that which followeth in your answer to the position ( as you interpret it ) wee passe over , because it is not to the matter intended . and wee are as unwilling to trouble you with the affaires of other churches taking you from your owne weightie occasions , as you are unwilling to be interrupted . onely in regard of promise , and because plaine dealing serves to maintaine love , we thinke good to advertise you these few things . that your reasons why you accept not of a stinted lyturgie be ambiguously propounded , for sometimes you plead onely for your libertie herein , and that a stinted forme is not necessary , and sometime you speake so , as they that looke at stinted lyturgies , as images forbidden in the second commandement will easily draw your words to their meaning . the reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer or liturgie doe hold as strong against a set forme of catechisme confession and profession of faith , blessing , baptizing and singing of psalmes . wee have not called upon you at this time to witnesse for , or against the corruptions in the communion-booke . this you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands contrary to the true meaning thereof . the reasons which you bring against it , we cannot approve them all ; the exceptions which have bin taken both from the matter and manner thereof we know : but to esteeme the whole for some corruptions found therein , a monument of idolatry , that we have not learned . the argument in the abridgement which is used against conformity to the ceremonies did not in their judgement who were authors of the booke hold against the lyturgie , of which opinion we are also . if these reasons be intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration , it is that which ( we are perswaded you know ) we never required of you . if to disallow the use of the booke amongst us altogether in things lawfull , good and pertinent , they will not hold weight . you are generally ( as you say ) loath to meddle with the affaires of other churches , unlesse you have been necessarily called thereunto . but when some upon the request ( as we suppose ) of private friends , and others out of their zeale and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separation from the sacrament , because ministred in a stinted lyturgie : wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie . the rent is wide , and some brethren had their hands deepe therein , which made us at this present to crave your judgements , and the reasons thereof to make up the breach . i. d. objecteth to master p. that his manner of preaching was disorderly in carrying that matter , he speakes of , to the classes , before he had declared to the church the equity of his refusing the ministers desired by the scriptures . and may not we with like reason object , that this manner of proceeding is disorderly in seeking to draw men to separation , because of stinted liturgie , before you had shewed to us or other brethren ( whom it may concerne ) by scripture , or reasons drawne from thence , that a stinted liturgie was unlawfull ? but of this wee may intreat more fully elsewhere . ii. position . that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments where a stinted liturgie is used , or as we conceive your meaning to be in this , as in the former question , viz. where , and when that stinted liturgie is used . answer . it seemeth by this your letter , the ground of this position hath beene the separation of divers from your assemblies , because of a stinted liturgie : and we are not ignorant of the rigid separation of divers people , who withdraw themselves from an able faithfull ministry , as no ministry of christ , and from their godly congregations as no churches of christ ; because of some corruptions from which ( through want of light , not love of the truth ) they are not throughly cleansed . against which practise we have ever witnessed . as for our judgement concerning the position it selfe , we would promise two things ; first concerning the persons reading this liturgie , which may be either an ungodly or unable minister , or an able and a godly . secondly , concerning the liturgie it selfe , which may be either of the whole or some select prayers , which may be conceived to be the least offensive . now if the question be of joyning in prayer with , and when that whole liturgie is used , or where that which is used , is read by an unable and ungodly minister , we then see not how it can be lawfull to joyne in prayer in such cases ; for the prayers of the minister are not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god. and when the prayers offered up by the minister , as a living holy , and acceptable service to god , are not through humane frailty , but otherwise for matter and manner corrupt , wee see not what warrant any one hath to joyne with such prayers , mal. . , . when men ioyne therein with an insufficient ministry , they doe not only countenance them in their place and office , whom the lord hath rejected from being his priests . hos . . . but also set up those idolls and means of worship to edifie themselves by , which god never appointed in his holy word ezeck . . . but if the question be of joyning in some few select prayers read by an able and painfull minister out of that booke as on the one side wee are very tender of imputing sin to the men that so joyne : so on the other side , we are not without feare , least that such joyning may be found to be unlawfull : unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers doe neither give any scandall by reading of them nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry , and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . reply . sufficient hath been spoken of the meaning of the position and the grounds thereof and if we have not mistaken your judgment & practice both , you have born witnesse against both that you call the rigid seperation , and this more moderate also ; and we humbly wish , the moderate doe not degenerate into the rigid ere long . it is very strange , if they take not great incouragement upon your grounds . the truth of our ministery , churches , ordinances , and calling is questioned , and where men will stay the lord knoweth , and what more common then that our liturgie is unlawfull , because it is the devise of man ; the author ( or publisher at least ) of a letter against our service booke beginneth with such like distinction . against this prayer-booke ( saith he ) divers have pleaded in a different manner . first some arguments are proper to the separatists qua tales , viz. that it is offered in a false church ; . by a false minister ; . in the behalfe of the subjects of the kingdome of antichrist . these are properly theirs , being the grounds whereupon they make a totall separation from all the churches in this land , as no churches of christ . these i approve not , yet note them that yee may see upon what different grounds , the same position is maintained by severall persons , and that yee may be delivered from the prejudice , which hinders many from receiving those truths , because they feare the reproach of brownisme . secondly , there are other grounds which are common to all that plead for the the puritie of christs ordinances , and which doe not necessarily inferre such separation , but only serve to shew the unlawfulnesse of that practise , and our communicating therein . thus the epistle wherein the same distinction of separation is noted : but how truly , let the indifferent judge . if none must be counted separatists , but such as have pleaded against the booke of common prayer as unlawfull , because offered up in a false church , &c. then are there none such in the world , that we have knowne or heard of : for it is apparent they cast us off as no churches of christ , because our service is a humane devise , will-worship , idolatry ; and not on the contrary , that our service is will-worship , or idolatry , because our churches are false churches . against all communion with us they plead , because we are a false church , but against our stinted liturgie they argue not in that manner . the grounds on which that authour builds ( which he saith are common to all , that plead for the purity of gods ordinances ) are one and the same with the grounds of the separatists , shafts taken out of the same quiver and peculiar to them , some few brethren onely excepted , who of late have looked towards that opinion . see how affection will transport . those reasons shall be common to all that plead for the purity of christs ordinances , which were never taken to be sound and true , either by the reformed churches abroad , or by the godly brethren at home , whether now at rest with the lord , or for the present living , or yet by the most of the brethren among whom they live , and with whom they hold societie , or by any minister or societie which did hold the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace for the space of this yeares and upwards , by your owne confession , unlesse within these few dayes , and that by a few onely . if this be not to strengthen the hands of the separatists , or at least , to lay blocks of offence in their way , what is ? as yet we thinke most of them that have separated , are not so farre gone , as to condemne all our assemblies as no churches of christ , but we judge they have proceeded further then christ the lord and saviour of his church hath given them commission or allowance , that the grounds whereon they build are unsound , and such as make way for further danger , if the lord prevent not . and that the reasons mentioned in the letters are the proper grounds of separatists , and not common to all them that seeke the purity of religion , for they are not approved by your selves : and if all this tend not to turne them who halt , out of the right way , wee heartily intreate you to consider . your judgement concerning the position , you deliver in three propositions ( for so many they be for substance ) in respect of the persons reading the liturgie , or the thing it selfe that is read . as if any part of the liturgie bee read , ( put case some few selected prayers onely , by an unable and ungodly minister : it is unlawfull ( say you ) for the people to joyne in that case . but if it be unlawfull for the people to joyne , when an ungodly minister readeth some few select prayers , it is either in respect of the minister , or the prayers themselves . not of the prayers themselves , for they be select and choyce , faultlesse both in respect of matter and manner , as it is taken for granted , unlesse this distribution be to no purpose ; if in respect of the minister , then it is not lawfull to joyne with such a one in any ordinance of god whatsoever . for if the minister make it unlawfull , then all communion in any part of gods worship , with such ministers is unlawfull , and so the church in all ages of the world , the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles , and the faithfull in the primitive churches sinned , in holding communion with such , when the priests were dumbe dogges that could not barke , and greedy dogges that could never have enough ; when the prophets prophefied lies , and the priests bare rule by their meanes ; when the priests bought and sold doves in the temple , and tooke upon them to provide such things for them that were to offer ; when the pharisees corrupted the law by false glosses , taught for doctrines mens precepts , made the commandements of god of none effect through their traditions , under pretence of long prayer devoured widowes houses , taught the law , but practised it not ; when they were such , and did such things , they were ungodly ministers ; but we never find that the prophets , our saviour , the apostles , did either forbeare themselves , or warne the faithfull not to communicate with such in the ordinance of worship . we reade our saviour charged his disciples , to beware of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , to let them alone , because they were the blind leaders of the blind , but he never forbade to communicate with them in the ordinance of god. it is not then for private christians to withdraw themselves from the ordinance of worship , and communion of the church , because such are permitted to deale in the holy things of god , whom they judge or know unfit : when men joyne in the worship of god with unworthy ministers , they doe not countenance them in their place and office , but obey the commandement of god , who requires their attendance upon his highnesse in that way and meanes . to goe no further then the text you quote , because thou hast despised knowledge , i will also reject thee , &c. properly the text is spoken of the ten tribes called israel , and the priests among them who worshipped the calves which ieroboam had set up , whom the lord threatneth to reject , because they had rejected knowledge being either wilfully ignorant , or withholding the truth in unrighteousnesse . whether they were for the present absolutely rejected , or the lord threatens only to reject them we will not dispute . this may suffice that it is not to be found either in this or any other text of scripture , that the people joyning in the true worship of god , with unworthy ministers , do countenance them in their place thereby . on the contrary , if you will extend this text to all unworthy ministers of what sort soever , whom the word of truth doth condemne as not approved ministers of god , the scripture teacheth evidently not onely that the people by joyning do not countenance them in their place and office , but that they must and ought to joyne with them in the worship of god , and in separating from the ordinance they shall sinne against god , much lesse then do they in such joyning set those idols and meanes of worship , which god never appointed in his word . for the worship is of god , and the ministery is of god , the person unworthily executing his place , is neither set up by some few private christians , nor can by them be removed . and warrant to withdraw themselves from the worship of god , because such as ought not , are suffered to entermeddle in the holy things of god , they have none from god. dumbe dogs , greedy dogs , idol-sheepheards , false prophets , strangers , are unworthy ministers , but they that communicate with such in the ordinance of worship , are never said to set up idols or means of worship which god never appointed . the sheep of christ will not heare strangers in the lords sense , but outwardly they heard those strangers preach ( if the scribes and pharisees were such ) and by hearing them discovered them to be strangers , i. e. false prophets ; some strangers at least , of whom our saviour speaks , were of the true church , and of israel , but brought false doctrine tending to kill the soule , such strangers none should heare , that is , believe and follow : but as they be tolerated in the church , so they may hear them , so long as they bring the truth . unworthy ministers are no ministers for themselves , but they are ministers for the people of god , that is , so long as they be in the place of ministers , the acts of their administrations are of force to the faithfull , if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by christ ; for christs ordinances have their efficacy from him , not from them that serve about them , and evill ministers minister not in their own name , but in christs and by his commission . it hath evermore bin held for a truth in the church of god , that although somtimes the evill have chiefe authority in the ministration of the word and sacraments , yet for as much as they doe not the same in their own name but in christs , and minister by his commission and authority , wee may use their ministery both in hearing the word , and receiving the sacraments ; neither is the effect of christs ordinance taken away , by their wickednesse , nor the grace of gods gifts diminished from such as by faith , and rightly doe receive the sacraments administred to them which are effectuall ; because of christs institution and promise , although they be ministred by evill men . the reasons whereby the ancient churches condemned the donatists and catharists for their voluntary and seditious separation , and the moderne churches condemne the anabaptists for their unwarrantable departure from , and so renting of the body of christ , will hold against separation from the prayers of the congregation , because they are read by an ungodly minister . the second proposition . where the whole liturgie is used , though by an able and godly minister , it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer in that case . herein wee cannot be of your judgement ; for in the times of the prophets , and our saviour christ , as great abuses , no question , were found in the church of the jews in the administration of holy things of god as can be imagined in our liturgie or forme of prayer : but the prophets and our saviour who taught the people to keepe themselves pure and undefiled , never taught them to separate from the administration of the holy things of god. and if the presence at our forms of prayer be not lawful by reason of the corruptions alleaged , there can be no visible society named throughout the world since . yeeres after christ or thereabouts , wherein a christian might lawfully joyne in prayer , reading the scripture , hearing the word or participation of the sacraments . for compare the doctrines , prayers , rites at those times in use in the churches with ours , and in all these , ( blessed be the name of the lord ) wee are more pure then they . but no man will be so bold ( we hope ) as to affirme the state of the churches within . yeeres after christ , to be so miserably decayed that the faithfull could not without sin hold communion with them in the aforesaid ordinances . the prayers of the minister , whether conceived or stinted in a set forme , be not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god both in the one and the other . but you will not say , the people ought not to joyne with their pastor in the publique assembly , if ought bee amisse in his prayer for matter , or manner , or both . it is all one to the people in this case , whether the fault be personall ( as some distinguish ) or otherwise knowne beforehand or not knowne : for if simple presence defile , whether it was knowne beforehand or not , all presence is faulty . and if simple presence defile not , our presence is not condemned , by reason of the corruptions knowne , whereof we stand not guilty , whether the corruption , be through humane frailty or not , it is not in us to enquire , but rather whether we be called to come , and the faults such as one christian cannot or must not tolerate in another without breach of charity . for if the errour be such as may be tolerated , and i am called to be present ; by such fault i am not defiled though knowne before . if the error be such as in conscience may not be tolerated , though not knowne before hand , i am bound , if present some way to professe against it . this distinction of personall and ministeriall faults in this case untill it be cleared by some text of scripture or sound reason from the word , must goe for the divise of man. a church , a minister , or a christian may be stiffe in an error ( being misperswaded it is a truth ) after many meanes long used to convince them , with whom yet we must hold communion in the ordinances of religion : and the error may be such as we cannot without hypocrisy or denyall of the truth hold communion , though such meanes of conviction have not gone before . but the corruptions alleadged against our forme of prayer for matter or manner , are such as one christian may and must tolerate in another where he hath no power to redresse them . hath not christian wisdome and experience of humane frailties lessoned you ( deere brethren ) to beare one with another in matters of greater consequence then any have or can be objected truly against the form of prayer in use among us ? and why such corruptions should not be ascribed to humane frailty ; we see not : for if a godly minister make use of a book in things which he judgeth lawfull for matter and manner , the corruption in him that useth it according to his judgement , from what cause can it spring but humane ignorance and frailty ? we rest assured you question not the integrity of many , who make much more use of the booke then onely in a few select prayers . from the bottome of our hearts we desire and pray that god would remove out of his church and worship whatsoever offendeth for matter or manner , and that all things may be so done , not onely that they may be tolerated but that they might be approved in the conscience of all men . but we are perswaded that not onely some few select prayers but many prayers & other exhortations may lawfully be used , with fruit and edification to gods people . to aggravate faults especially when it tends to draw away people from the ordinances of god , is no lesse fault then to excuse them , it may be greater , and therefore we dare not esteeme the prayers read by a godly and faithfull minister according to the booke in use among us , a corrupt sacrifice whether in such as read them , or them that be present . in them that join according to christs command ( and liberty of absence from christ hath not beene shewed ) notwithstanding the corruptions , we hold the prayers to be an holy and acceptable sacrifice to god , and pleasing to jesus christ . the corrupt sacrifice is that , which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily , and out of neglect , having a male in his flock : but the faithfull bringeth himself and his godly desires according to the will of god , and as for corruptions , whether respecting matter or forme , they are none of his , they cleave not to his sacrifice to staine or pollute it . as for the text of the prophet mal. . , . it is cited by many in this businesse , and to many purposes applyed , but we cannot finde that in the prophet for which it is here brought , the deceiver is accursed that offereth a corrupt thing to the lord. this we reade and beleeve , but that a godly man , being present at this forme of prayer among us , read by a godly and faithfull minister , is the deceiver , who offereth a corrupt thing unto the lord , that is not proved . no argument can be brought from this place to the purpose , but by analogy , which is a kinde of arguing of all other most ready at hand , but lyable to most exceptions , and apt to draw aside , if great care be not had , ( which in this place we finde not ) to take the proportion in every materiall point just and right . and we desire such as alleadge this passage of scripture against simple presence at the prayers of our liturgy , advisedly to consider whether god allow them to make such application of his truth which wee much doubt of , to say no more . your third proposition . that as you are very tender of imputing sinne to those men that joyne in some select prayers read by an able and godly minister : so on the other side you are not without feare , least such joyning may be found unlawfull , unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers , neither give any scandall by reading them , nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . we cannot conceive how you should imagine the practice of a godly minister in reading some few select prayers to be scandalous or offensive in their congregations when the people generally , not in their assemblies onely , but throughout the whole land , were perswaded of the lawfulnesse of that course till now of late some have beene drawne away to separate , who yet by warrant of scripture produce nothing of weight to countenance that practice . if the booke should be as you take it an idolathite , latent offence doth not oblige . if any man say unto thee , this is sacrificed to idols , eat it not , so that if it doe not manifestly appeare that this practice is scandalous ; it is not lawfull for the people to withdraw themselves . the book ( we speake of the liturgie so far as it is sound and good ) by your confession is no idolathite , neither was it taken out of the masse-book in such sense as you object , but rather the masse & other idolatrous prayers were added to it , for popery is as a scab or leprosie cleaving to the church ; and many truths belonging to the church as her proper legacie were stolen and heaped together in that denne . and why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever he finds thē , or the thiefe plead title to the true mans goods by prescription , we know not ? it is no hard taske to shew that our service-booke was reformed in most things according to the purest liturgies which were in use in the church long before the masse was heard of in the world . and if that could not be shewed , yet formes of speech generally taken ( we speak not of this or that speciall word or phrase ) is no more defiled by idolatry then the light aire , or place where idolatry is committed . it is not unlawfull to pray , lord helpe , or lord have mercy , or to give thankes , praised bee god , because the papists say , lady helpe , or , praised be god and the virgin mary . fourthly , put case the minister in reading such prayers gives offence , or attributes unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , or suffer himself to be sinfully limited in the reading of them , what is that to the faithfull ? this can be no just ground of the people 's not joyning with them in the worship of god , for that offence is personall onely , and not the sin of them that be present , they joyn in prayer onely , and not in his reading or limiting himself . not to say that every particular person must be herein both accuser and judge . if he give offence must they stumble at the stone , and separate from the ordinance of grace ? wee should rather think it is their duty to look unto their feet , that they goe not awry . let it be shewed out of the word of god , that either the minister is guilty of giving unlawfull honour , or that the people may lawfully withdraw themselves in case he should do so , and we will then say as you do , but untill that be proved , ( being pressed and called to proffer our judgements ) we believe that separation is scandalous and sinfull , never taught of god , nor confirmed by the approved example of the godly in any age or time of the church : yea , against the positive law of god , injurious to the churches distracting christians , bringing contempt upon the ordinances of god , and defrauding believers of the spirituall food of their souls , which is indeed to infringe their christian liberty , and what ever may be thought of it now , in former times it hath been accounted no small offence . fistly , if this and such like scruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordenance of worship , we must hold communion with no society under heaven . for may not the brethren which hold all stinted , liturgies , and set forms unlawfull say with like strength of reason , it is unlawfull to joyn in conceived prayer with others , if either they give too little honour to it , as deeming the other lawfull , or sinfully limiting , or suffering themselves to be limited to one stinted forme , though conceived at first by them selves ? and may not the brethren who hold a stinted forme lawfull in like manner object ? it is unlawfull to joyn in prayer with them because they attribute too much honour to conceived prayer , as making their device and method the worship of god ? and may not the brethren which hold it lawfull to use some selected prayers according to the forms among us , upon the same grounds condemne communion with both sorts ? and all of them one with another , because they either limit themselves too much , or too little ? you say in the exposition of the first position , many preachers constantly use a set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , must you not say upon this ground , that it is unlawfull to joyn with them , because they sinfully stint themselves ? in probability a christian may presume , that in the publike worship of god , there will be through humane ignorance & infirmity somwhat amiss for matter , or manner , or both , & that upon this ground , he must joyn with no society in any part of gods worshipat all . the advancing of every small difference to this height , is that which will bring all to confusion , if men walk uniforme to their own principles . it is well observed by master i. da. that unlesse men will yield so much favour each to other in some difference of opinions , a dissolving not onely of churches , but of humane societies also must necessarily follow , & not onely not two ministers , but not two men should live together , which were to put off even humanity it selfe . sixtly , wee have credibly heard that you hold fellowship with professed , rigid separatists without any acknowledgment of their errour , and receive them as members , or communicate with them in the priviledges of the church , though you professe you approve not their opinion or practice . and if in godly wisdome , you can see grounds to joyn with them , we marvell you should be so timorous in this particular . seventhly , if you judge the practice of such godly ministers , scandalous to them that separate from the ordinance , because it is not administred in this , or that , but in a stinted form . it is a scandall taken , and not given ; and by forbearing , if to confirme men in errour , be to scandalize them , they should offend them the more : yea , they should prejudice the truth , and it might be an occasion to beget needlesse scruples in others , and draw them ignorantly from the fellowship of the saints in the holy ordinances of god , and strengthen them who by your owne confession , are run too far into schisme already . iii position . that the children of godly and approved christmas , are not to be baptized untill their parents be set members of some particular congregation iv position . that the parents themselves , though of approved piety , are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they be admitted as set members . answ . these two positions may be maintained with one and the same defence , being somewhat coincident , and therfore we joyn them as if they were but one . therefore to prevent all mistakes , it may please you to take notice that we are not of their judgement who refuse all religious communion with such as are not church members , nor doe wee appropriate communion in this priviledge of the seals only to the members of our own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same , though they may be through errour or humane frailty defective in some matters of order , provided that the liberty of our churches be preserved , of receiving such satisfaction as is meet ( as well by letters of recommendation , or otherwise if it be requisite ) concerning those whom wee admit unto fellowship in the seals . for as we account it our duty to keepe the unity of spirit inviolate with any , in whom we discerne any fruits of the spirit , so we hold our selves bound to discharge this duty , according to order . spirituall cōmunion in prayers , holy conferences & other religious actions of like nature we maintain with al godly persons , though they be not in church order : but church communion we hold onely with church members admitting to fellowship of the seals the known and approved , & orderly recommended members of any true church . but into fellowship of the censures , admittance of members and choice of officers , onely the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . these things being premised , the considerations whereupon our judgement and practice is swayed for administration of the seals onely to such as are in order of a true visible church are these that follow . reply . vvhat is here premised to prevent all mistakes , doth seem more to raise then to abate scruples if we mistake not your meaning . you refuse not all religious communion with all that are not church members , and so much they professe , who formerly have gone for , and professed themselves separatists from our assemblies . you do not appropriate this priviledge of the seals onely to the members of your own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same ; if your meaning be onely this , that you deny not the sacraments administred in other churches to be the true sacraments of christ for substance , then you ascribe little more to the churches of christ in this , then to the synagogue of satan , the church of rome . for you will not deny baptisme administred among them to be true for substance : if you deny not to have fellowship with them in the seals , and to admit them to the sacrament , and to communicate with them : then either your judgment is contrary to your practice , or you exclude the churches of england from the number of true visible churches of christ , which is to destroy what you formerly builded , and here professe . all possible care to keep the ordinances of god from contempt , we allow and commend , provided you go not beyond the lords warrant , and deny not the priviledges of the church to them , to whom they are due by divine appointment , nor the name and title of church to those societies , which god hath plentifully blessed with means of grace , have received the tables and seals , and have entred into covenant with his highnesse . your liberty to receive such satisfaction as is meet , is not called into question , nor whether you are to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate according to order . but whether this be to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate ( viz ) to exclude from the sacrament true visible believers , or knowne recommended christians , formerly members of visible churches among us ; and their children ; because they are not members ( as you speak ) in church order . and whether god alloweth to put this difference between church mēbers of your societies & other visible believers walking in holines , though not admitted members of any society according to your church order , as to receive the one , though members of another society , unto the seals , and to debar the other and their children . these are the things to be considered in these present positions . and first we will examine your reasons for your judgment and practice by themselves , and then so far as we judge meet , try your answers to the objections you make against it . consideration . the seals baptism & the lords supper are given to the church , as a priviledge peculiar therto in ordinary dispensation . indeed the preaching of the word is not so , being an ordinance given not onely for the edifying of the church already gathered , but also for the gathering of men to the churches that yet are without : wheras the dispensing of the seals is gods ordinance , given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it : and because there is now , no universall visible church on earth wherein the seals are dispenced , there being no place , nor time , nor officers , nor ordinances appointed in the new testament by christ our lord , for any such assemblies as the iewes had under moses . it remains that the christian churches , whereunto these priviledges were given , are congregationall , consisting onely of so many as may and do meet together ordinarily in one place for the publike worshipping of god , and their own edifying . hence it is that we read so much in the new testament of the churches in the plurall number , the churches of christ , the churches of god , the churches of the saints : and not onely when they were of divers nations , the churches of the gentiles , but also of the same nation , the churches of iudea , and not onely when that country was of large extent and circuit , the churches of asia , but also of a small part of the country . the churches of galatia : yea , when congregations in severall cities are spoken of . they are called churches as the churches of ierusalem , the churches at antioch . to wind up all , seeing the churches in the gospell are congregationall , and that baptisme and the lords supper ( being church priviledges ) belong onely to the churches , it will follow , that as city priviledges belong onely to citizens and their children : so baptisme and the lords supper being church priviledges , belong onely to the members of particular churches , and their seed . and that seeing sigillum sequitur donum , to apply them to others what is it but to abuse them ? as a seal of a corporation is abused if added to confirme the grant of priviledges which are peculiar to any towne corporate to one that being no free-man of that corporation is uncapable thereof . reply . if by the church be understood the society of men , professing the entire faith of christ , the seales are given unto it as a peculiar priviledge ; but if by the church you understand onely a congregationall assembly in church order , the seales were never appropriated to it . but to examine every thing in order as it is propounded . the seales , baptisme , and the lords supper , are given to the church as priviledges peculiar thereunto , not onely in ordinary ( as you say ) but also in extraordinary dispensation . true baptisme is not without the church , but within it ; an ordinance given to it , and they that are baptised , must needes be of a church . the sacraments are the seales of the covenant to the faithfull , which is the forme of the church , and when for substance rightly used , tokens and pledges of our spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family , and symbolls or testimonies whereby the people of god are distinguished from all other nations . this is most certain , as in the ordinary ; so in the extraordinary dispensation of the seales , as is confirmed by the texts of scripture alleadged in the margine . for the apostles ( as you say ) dispenced the seales in an extraordinary way , but the seales dispenced by the apostles were seales of the covenant , priviledges peculiar to the church , priviledges of spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family . and when you say the dispencing of the seals is an ordinance given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it , must it not be understood in extraordinary , dispensation as wel as ordinary : to what pupose then are those words ( in ordinary dispensation ) added to the proposition ? if thereby you would intimate that the sacraments be not the peculiar priviledges of the church , and seales of the covenant in extraordinary dispensation , it is evidently crosse to the text you cite , and to your selves afterward . if your meaning be , that in ordinary dispensation the sacraments doe of right belong to them onely , who bee set members of a visible congregation , it is all one with the conclusion , that which is in question and should be proved , and that which this very scripture doth plentifully disprove ; for they that were baptised were not set members of a particular congregationall church whereunto they were baptised , nor in a church way before baptisme ( as is evident and granted by the most of your selves ) but by baptisme solemnly admitted into the church , and then it is not for your purpose , or they were set members ( as some of the brethren seeme to contend in answer to the objection framed against this consideration ) and then the words are more then superfluous . added , they were to prevent the objection which you foresaw might be made from the apostles practice and example but so as they cut asunder the sinews of the consideration it selfe , and make it of no force . for as those beleivers were of the church : so are approved christians and their seed among us : therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . and as the seales : so is the word of salvation preached and received a priviledge of the church . if by the preaching of the word you understand nothing but the tender of salvation or the publishing of the will of god , concerning the salvation of man , whether by private or publike persons ; it is not proper to the church but an ordinance given for the gathering of men to the church , and not only for the edifying of the church . for the apostles first preached to the gentiles when infidels , that they might be converted ; and we doubt not but a minister or private christian comming into a country of infidells , may as occasion is offered , and as they shall be inabled , instruct and perswade them to receive the faith of christ : but if by the preaching of the word be meant the giving of the word to a people , to abide and continue with them , and consequently their receiving of it at least in profession then it is proper to the church of god. the word makes disciples to christ , and the word given to a people is gods covenanting with them , and the peoples receiving this word and professing their faith in god through iesus christ is the taking of god to bee their god. the lawes and statutes which god gave to israell , was the honour and ornament to that nation , and a testimony that god had separated them from all other people , even the gentiles themselves being iudges . the word of reconciliation is sent and given to the world reconciled in iesus christ , and they that receive the doctrine , law , or word of god are the disciples , servants and people of god. in your second consideration you intimate that there is a two fold preaching , the one by office and authority , the other in common charity , or how ever else it may be called . for thus you write . god hath joyned to preach ( viz by office ) and to baptize together , therefore we may not separate them . now to preach unto , that is to instruct or counsell in charity is a duty which may be performed to an infidell , but to preach by office is proper to them that are called to that office : and so to be taught and instructed by officers in the church is proper to the church . to have pastors who shall feed with knowledge and understanding is a gift of matrimoniall love which god vouchsafeth unto his church . the apostles first gathered churches and then ordained elders in everie citie or church ; so that it is proper to the church to be fed and guided by true spirituall pastors who teach and blesse in the name of the lord. and if the word preached and received bee a certaine note of the true church , they that have intyrely received the word of salvation and have pastors godly and faithfull to feede and guide them , they and their seed have right and interest unto the seales in order . moreover the true worship of god is an inseparable and infallible marke of the true church of god , for where christ is , there is his church . this is the prerogative of the church . the prince shall be in the midst of them , and he shall go in when they goe in , &c. and christ saith , where . or . are met together in my name there am i in the middest among them . and for certain they are gathered in the name of christ that being lawfully called doe assemble to worship god and call upon his name in the mediation of iesus christ . in times past , the church was acknowledged by the feare of god , and entyre service of his majestie , by the professing of the true faith and faithfull calling upon gods name . the signes of apostolike churches are these . the continuance in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and breaking of bread and prayer . and if faith , true and lively ( though mixed with many doubtings and errors ) make a man a living member of iesus christ , the entyre profession of true faith joyned with holynesse of life in some measure answerable thereunto , makes a man a true member of the visible church . and if the seales belong to the church in right and orderly dispensation , they that joyne together in the true worship of god , according to his will , with godly and faithfull pastors , they have right and title to the sacraments according to divine institution . thirdly , that there is now no visible catholike church in your sense will easily bee granted ▪ i. e. there is no universall society consisting of all such as are accounted or to bee esteemed christians , subjected to one or many vniversall pastors or guides , wherwithall subordinates must communicate in some sacred things which may make them one church and which may and can be performed by that vniversall and head church only . such an vniversall christian church christ never ordained , no not in the dayes of the apostles , to whom all the care of all the churches , was committed . the churches planted by the apostles had all the same substantiall lawes and customes , the same guides and officers for kinde , the same ordinances of worship and meanes of salvation : but one flock or society in the fore mentioned acceptation they were not , because they were but subordinate to one visible head . christ , with which they were to hold union and communion in some worship to be performed by them all jointly assembled at some speciall solemnity , nor subjected to the government of any supreame tribunall constantly to be erected and continued among them . neverthelesse , in some respects of reason , the visible church , may be called the church , sheepfold or flock of christ ; for if the whole society or body mysticall of christ be one , this church militant in like sort is one : the unity of which society consists in that uniformity , which all severall persons thereunto belonging , have by reason of that one lord whose servants they all are , and professe themselves , that one spirit whereby they are animated as the body by one soul ; whereby they believe in christ , and which they acknowledge and professe , that one baptisme inward and outward , whereby they put on christ , and are initiated . this society is one in the inward fruition and enjoying of the benefits of christs death and resurrection , and in outward profession of those things which supernaturally appertain to the very essence of the church , and are necessarily required in every christian , this acceptation of the word is not unusuall in scripture . as god hath set some in the church . his bodies sake which is the church . the church viz. whereof paul was made a minister , and whereunto the rest of the apostles were ordained , which was the catholike visible church , the society of men professing the faith of christ throughout the world , divided into many particular churches whereof some are pure , others impure , some more , others lesse sound . hereunto it may be added , that every multitude and society of believers are indefinitely called the church , i persecuted the church of god. the house of god which is the church of the living god. in which sense all the churches in the world may truly be called one . and thus the apostle peter writing to many dispersed churches , who could not assemble in one place nor be fed by one shepherd , speaketh of them singularly as one flock . feed the flock of god which is among you . but that flock are the strangers dispersed through pontus , galatia , asia , cappadocia , and bythinia , which could not possibly joine together in the ordinances of worship , or make one distinct congregated assembly . and if the catholike militant church be one society ; the seals that are given as a prerogative to the church are given unto it , and the true members of the catholike church have right and title to them in due order , though they be not admitted into the church fellowship you speak of . for as the flock or society is one : so is the ministery , faith , covenant , and sacraments , which are given as a communion prerogative unto the whole church , and not appropriated to this or that part or member , as separated from the whole ; which is further evidenced hereby , that sometime it hath , and too often it may fall out , that a christian may be a true member of the universall visible church ( i. e. he may hold , professe , and maintain that holy catholike faith , pure , and undefiled , without which no man can be saved ) who for the present is no actuall member of any particular or visible society in church order . as for example , a man may be cut off by excommunication , from all commerce with the present visible church wherein hee was bred and born , when hee is not cut off from the catholike , orthodox all church . hee may be deprived of participation of the ordinance in every particular society , when his right and title to them is much better then these who have most injuriously cast him out , or debarred him of the means of salvation . the communion of saints , whether visible or invisible is the effect and property of the church catholike , and agreeth to the severall parts and members thereof , as they be members of that body under the head , and if particular churches have communion together it must of necessity be , that they bee parts and members of the whole body which is one . . though there be no universall congregation or assembly nor can be imagined , yet there are and have beene many visible assemblies or societies , true churches of christ , to whom the prerogative of the seals is given , which have not beene united and knit together , in church-order into one congregationall body or society , for every society in covenant with god is the true church of god : for what is it to be the flock , people or sheepe of god , but to be the church of god ? and where there is a covenant , there is the people of god. they that are of the faith of abraham , are the children and seed of abraham , and within the covenant of abraham ( though but two or three ) and so of the same church with him by that covenant . the communication on and accepting of the tables of covenant is an undoubted token of a people in convenant or confederate , but every society professing the true and entire faith , joyning in prayer and thankesgiving , receiving the truth of god to dwell among them , and in some measure conforming themselves to the obedience of gods commandements , is in covenant with god. it is simply necessary to the being of a church that it be laid upon christ the foundation , which being done , the remaining of what is forbidden , or the want of what is commanded , cannot put the society from the title or right of a church . for christ is the foundation and head corner stone of the church , and a people comming unto christ , united unto him , built upon him , having communion with him and growing up in him , are the true church of god : and if the seals be annexed to the covenant by god himselfe , as we cannot deny a people in covenant to be the church , so we must not deny their right and title to the sacraments . if therefore the meaning of the proposition be that the seales be given to the church , that is , to true and sound christians , and people in covenant with god , as a priviledge whether in ordinary or extraordinary dispensation we accept it as good and sound , but it makes against your judgement and practice in keeping away such as have right and title to the ordinances . if you meane the seales are given to the church , that is , onely to set members of some particular society combined by covenant ( as it is among you ) we cannot receive it , because it implieth a distinction not taught in scripture , and crosse to your selves . and for the thing it selfe the scripture hath nothing but many things against it as hath beene shewed . if it be granted that the seales are the prerogative of a particular visible church , known and approved christians among us , and their seed are members of true and visible churches , and so to be esteemed among you before they be entred into church membership as you call it . for every society professing the intire and true faith , and joyning together in the right use of the sacraments in matters substantiall is the true church of god , and every visible beleever receiving the word and professing , the true intire faith , admitted to the right and lawfull participation of the sacraments is a visible member of the true church , if he have neither renounced that society , nor deserved justly to be cast out by excommunication or church censure . for the intire profession of the truth , the dwelling of the truth among men , the right use of the sacraments ( which is ever joyned with truth of doctrine , and to be esteemed by it ) is proper to them that be in covenant with god. and they that truly partake of the seales must needes be of a church , for the seales are not without but within the church an ordinance given unto it , and if they be true members of the true churches of jesus christ , other churches , are bound to hold communion with them in the ordinance of worship as divine providence shall minister occasion . in answer to the ninth position you say the members of other churches , well known and approved by vertue of communion with churches , doe mutually and with good acceptance communicate each of them at others churches , even so often as gods providence leads them thereunto , and themselves desire it . in your preface to this consideration , you say you admit to fellowship of the seales , the known , approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church , and if knowne and approved christians , members of our churches comming over into new england shall desire either to have their children baptized , or to be admitted themselves to the lords supper before they be set members of any society the●e , we desire to know upon what grounds from god you can deny them , if you acknowledge our churches ministery , and sacraments , to be true and of god ( as you professe ) and the members of the church be known and approved , orderly recommended unto you . it is the priviledge of christians baptised themselves , and walking in the faith , that their children should have right to baptisme in all true churches in the world . it is the priviledge of christians lawfully and justly admitted to the lords supper in one visible church , and walking in covenant with god , that they have right to this priviledge in all churches professing their intire faith , and you must shew just and sound reasons from god of your judgement and practice in debarring their seed from baptisme , and parents themselves from the supper , or else ( to use the words of a reverend elder among you , in a case of lesse importance , and not concerning so many ) you will be found guilty of adding to the words , and making eleven commandements , and setting up humane customes , and selfewill against gods appointment . for the sacraments are given to the church as a priviledge peculiar thereunto , but you deny this priviledge to the true visible members of the church , ( as your selves confesse . ) for if the ministers be the ministers of christ , and their congregations the churches of christ , then knowne and approved christians are members of the church . in your opinion the members of the jewish church might be received unto baptisme , upon confession of the christian faith before they were entred into church fellowship , and it is more then strange to us that you should not thinke the true visible members of the churches of christ to have as much title and interest to the seales , as the members of the jewish church to the sacrament of baptisme . the distinct churches mentioned in the new testament , it is not certain that they were congregationall societies consisting onely of so many as might and did meete together ordinarily in one place at one time for the publike worship of god , and their own edification , and if this were granted it would not carry the weight that was laid upon it , but because it may make way for the clearing of some other points pertaining to discipline and church order , we intreat leave to set downe , and desire you to examine what may be objected against it . we will not insist upon this that the least circuite wherein there is mention of churches , is ample enough to containe some diocesses and the least city , populous enough to make many numbersome congregations . nor upon this , that to meete at one time and one place , as one assembly is a thing meerely accidentary to the unity of the church and society ecclesiasticall which is still one , when they are dispersed asunder , and no particular man of that society at first remaining now alive . the number of beleevers was so great in some cities as they could not conveniently meete in one place as one assembly to worship the lord according to his will and for their edifying . that there was a church gathered in the city of samaria by the ministery of phillip will not be denyed , for they received the word and were baptised , but that the church in that city was onely a congregationall assembly is more then can probably be concluded out of scripture . for the whole city or the greatest part could not ordinarily assemble in one place to their edification : but the whole city of samaria , in a manner , ( as it is probable ) imbraced the faith . as the whole city from the least to the greatest had given heede to simon magus before , so to phillip now when he preached christ , and the text saith expresly that samaria received the gospell . the christian church at ierusalem was one and distinct , but it grew and increased first to . then to . afterwards multitudes of men and women were added , and the multitude of disciples increased ; it is also noted that a company of the priests received the faith . the syriacke hath it of the jews , ( scil . ) inhabiting judea , but the greeke , arabian , vulgar , chrisostoms & ethiopians approve the former , and the number of the priests was not small : there is mention also of millions of beleevers . and when all the apostles , or the greatest part of them remained at jerusalem for a time continuing in the ministery of the word and prayer , and that they might doe it the more earnestly and diligently , left the care of the poore to others : how can we thinke but that church did grow exceedingly , and the number of beleevers there to be more then could fitly meete ordinarily in one congregation . without question the number of beleevers in antioch was not small , of which it is said expresly , that a great number beleeved , turned to the lord and that a great multitude was added to the lord by the preaching of barnabas , and that paul and barnabas continued there one whole yeere preaching the word of god , and teaching the multitude , so that the disciples were first called christians at antioch . after that this church was visited by paul and barnabas , who continued there teaching and preaching the word of god with many others also , and may wee not thinke that this church did quickly rise to such bignesse that they could not well assemble in one congregation as now wee call them ? it will easily be credited that the number of believers was not small at ephesus , if we call to minde that when paul had been there but two yeers , all they that dwelt in asia had heard the word of the lord both iews and grecians , that a great doore and effectuall was opened to him at ephesus , that the art for making shrines , and dianaes temple was in danger to be set at nought , and that those that had used curious arts , came and burnt their books in the sight of all men , which could not be done without great danger unto the church , unlesse a great part of the city had believed . where a church did comprehend a city with its suburbs and the country circumjacent , i. e. the believers who professed the faith within that circuit . it might well be that the number did so increase through the extraordinary blessing of god , which accompanied the preaching of the word in those primitive times , and first planting of the heavenly kingdome , that they could not well meet ordinarily in one place , and yet continued one society . for when a number is gathered in small villages , or some added to the number already gatherd , it is not meet they should be neglected because small , nor divided from the body , because the number not competent to make an intire and perfect body of it selfe . the increase of the churches doth require an increase of elders , and ( if they grow to bignesse more then ordinary ) an increase of places for their assembling , when the essence of the visible church is not changed , nor one multiplied or divided into many . and it is more available for the good of the church , and further removed from all ambition , if the society shall assemble occasionally in divers places as parts and members of the body , then to constitute a distinct free society consisting of a few believers , not fit to make up an intire body contrary to the precedent examples of the apostles . in times of grievous and hot persecution the churches of god could not assemble in any great number in publick places , but have been compelled to meet in woods , caves , dens , and dark corners , as the lord hath offered opportunity , one and the same society in sundry places : so that either it is not essential to the church to meet together in one place ordinarily , or their society is broken off by persecution , when their meeting together in one place is interrupted . it is said by some where the church grew greater , sometimes by the suddain and extraordinary conversion of more then could well so assemble , then was there presently a dispersion of the former , and a multiplication of more particular assemblies . but in the scriptures quoted no such thing doth appeare , but rather the contrary as hath been proved . in aftertimes when the church was within the cities as of rome , ephesus , alexandria , carthage , ierusalem , &c. the number of believers did greatly exceed the bignesse of a convenient and fitting assembly which might ordinarily congregate in the place to worship god according to his appointment when the church was but one . seventhly . seeing them both the seals in ordinary and in extraordinary dispensation belong to the church , id est , to the faithfull , and repentant , taught made disciples , who have received the word , believe , and professe the faith , have received the holy ghost , and walke in obedience , who are members of other visible churches , or to be made members of a visible church for the time being , by admittance unto the sacraments , and not unto set members of congregationall assemblies only . and seeing the godly and faithful ministers among us are the true ministers of christ , and their godly congregations , true churches , and knowne , and approved christians , true members of visible churches formerly baptized , and admitted to the lords supper . this consideration is of no weight to justifie your opinion and practice in debarring known and approved christians , professing the faith , members of the true visible churches amongst us from the lords supper , or their seed from baptisme , because they be not yet received as set members of some particular cōgregation amongst you : and if such believers are not to be received to the seals , we desire you to consider if ever the sacraments of the new testament , were rightly dispensed in the church of the new testament from the first plantation thereof unto this day . the seale doth follow the grant , and as the seale is prophaned , if it be put to a false grant or charter , so are the faithfull wronged if the seale in a lawfull way desired , be denied to them that have received the grant , i. e. have right unto jesus christ , and communion with him . but the faithfull who have received the word with gladnesse , believe , and professe , be members knowne and approved by other visible churches , or such as desire to be admitted members of that visible society for the time by communicating in the ordinance , are already partakers of the grant or charter , have right and interest in christ , may lawfully desire the seals , and may be admitted as members for the time being of that particular society . therefore to debar such , from the lords supper , and their seed from baptisme , is against the law of nature , and the positive law of god , an injury to the faithfull and their seed , a wrong to the catholike visible church , that particular society , and the pastors themselves that so debar them . they sinned grievously who deferred baptisme to the end of their life , and the negligence of pastors and teachers who did not instruct the ignorant and reprove the superstitious , was great . and is not the severity in debarring such as crave and desire to be admitted to the seals an injury to be reprehended ? answ . confider the ordinary administration of the seales is limited to the ministery and the ministery to a particular church ; therefore the seals also must necessarily be proper to the church and to the members thereof . that the administration of the seales is limited to their ministery is evident from the first institution math. . . where god hath joyned ( to preach ) viz. by office , and ( to baptize ) together , therefore wee may not separate them . for howsoever : any man may by the appointment of the lord and master of the family , signifie his minde and deliver his message from him to the family , yet the dispensing of a fitt portion of food to everie one of the houshold is a branch of the stewards office . indeed the keies are given to the whole church yet the exercise and dispensation of them in this as well as in other particulars is concredited to the ministers who are called to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . and no church office can be orderly performed by any , but one that is called therunto nor will god vouchsafe his presence , and blessing ( wherupon all spirituall efficacy depends ) in an ordinance dispensed , but when it is dispensed by those whom he hath ordayned and appointed thereunto . that the ministery is limited to the church appeares as from evident texts of scripture : so also upon this ground . the office is founded in the relation betweene the church and the officer , wherfore take away the relation , and the office and the worke ceaseth . for where he hath not power , he may not doe an act of power , and he hath not powerwhere he hath not a relation by office . herein the proportion holdeth between an officer of a towne corporate , and of a church that as the power of the former is only within his owne corporation : so the power of the latter is confined to his owne congregation . reply . the proposition is granted that the dispensation of the sacraments in the new testament both ordinary and extraordinary is limited to the ministery . but in that you alleadge for confirmation , somethings may be noted . the first institution of baptisme is not contained in that passage math. . . but confirmed ; for the seales of the new testament were instituted by christ before his death , and his disciples had baptized many which they could not doe before the institution of the sacrament . secondly we see not how you can apply that text to preaching by office , which according to our exposition must bee a dispensing of a fit portion of food to everie one of the houshould . for it is plaine the apostles were sent forth to preach to everie creature or unto the world , to convert men unto god , to make them disciples and not to preach unto disciples only , or members of the houshold . the apostles certainly had authority , and preached by authority , but they preached not to infidells and heathens , as to disciples or members of the church , much lesse did they give a portion to them as to the houshold which is the preaching by office , which you acknowledge . thirdly if under the power of the keyes you comprehend preaching by office , dispensing the seales , casting out , and receiving againe into the bosome of the church wee deny the power of the keyes to belong to the church or community of the faithfull : we cannot find in scripture that christ ever granted such power to the faithfull , as faithfull joyned together in covenant in those passages which speake of this power , the execution of this authority is given to them to whom the authoritie is committed . if the power of the keyes be given to the whole church the apostles themselves must derive their authoritie immediatly from the church , and not from christ , for the power must be derived from them , unto whom it was give ; but their power , and authority was not from the church ; but from christ immediatly . and if the dispensation , and exercise of the keyes , be concredited to the ministers ; doth it hold in all things or onely in the dispensation of the sacraments , and preaching by office ? doe they dispense the seales as the stewards of christ , from whom they receive their authority immediately or as the servants of the church , from which they derive their authority ? if in the first sense ; the power of the keys is not in the community of the faithfull . if in the second , the office of a minister is not the immediate gift of christ , nor the minister , so much the servant of christ , as of the church , from whom he must receive lawes , in whose name he must doe his office , and to whom he must give an account . we could wish you had explained in what sense , you hold the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers , and by whom . for if the community of the faithfull have to doe in all matters concerning the body , to admit members , and cast them out , to make and depose ministers , to bind and loose by authority derived from christ , wee cannot see how in your judgement the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers . fourthly that which you add , that god will not vouchsafe his presence and blessing to an ordinance but when it is dispenced by those , whom hee hath ordayned and appointed thereunto , must bee warily understood , or it may occasion errors and distractions not a few , you know what corruptions soone entred into the church of god , both in respect of doctrine , worship , offices , and entrance thereunto , and how ready and apt is the conclusion from your words , that christ hath not vouchsafed his presence , and blessing in his ordinances to his church ? but of this before . and on the contrary , seeing god hath vouchsafed his blessing in his ordinances dispensed by your selves , when you stood as visible ministers in the congregation , and churches of old england , you must confesse , did approve both your standings and his ordinances dispensed by you . secondly , as for the assumption , that pastors and teachers are limited to a particular charge or society ; but that flock is not ever one congregationall assembly meeting in one place , neither the band so streight , whereby they are tied to that one society , that they may not upon occasion performe some ministeriall act or office in another congregation , or to them that be not set members of their proper assembly . for first to dispence the seals of the covenant is a ministeriall act , an act of office , and not an exercise of gifts onely : but the pastors of one assembly may dispence the sacrament to the set members of another society upon occasion , as you confesse in this and in your answer to the ninth position . and if the members of one church may lawfully upon occasion receive the sacrament of the supper in another society from the pastor thereof , then may the pastor of one congregation performe a ministeriall act to the members of another , and if to the members of another then in another congregation with consent , and upon occasion . secondly , as the ministers are exhorted to feed their flock : so is every christian and minister to try and examine himselfe whether hee be in the faith , but you will not allow this conclusion . i must examine my self . ergo , no man is debarred from the sacrament for his unworthinesse , or to be tried or examined by others , to be observed , admonished , and brought to repentance for notorious sin . no more can it be rightly gathered from the former passages of scripture , that the minister is not upon occasion to performe any ministeriall act to any other people or society , because ordinarily he is to attend his own flock . thirdly , as the ministers have peculiar relation to their particular flocks , so the people unto their particular ministers , unto whom they are tied in speciall manner , as to their overseers , who must give account for theirsouls . and if this peculiar relation betwixt the people & the minister doth not hinder the people from receiving the lords supper at the hands of another minister ; nor the minister from performing the ministeriall act to the members of another congregation . neither doth his peculiar relation to his own flock hinder him , from administring unto others upon just occasion being intreated thereunto . as the combining of the people to their peculiar minister , doth not quite cut off their communion with other ministers : so neither doth the restraining of a minister to a peculiar flock quite cut him off from administring upon occasion : unto another people . paul appointeth the ephesian elders unto the care & charg onely of their own particular flock , but so to attend them ordinarily according to the rules of the scripture ; that as occasion was offered , might performe some ministeriall acts in another congregation . the taking heed unto their flocks which paul requires in this place doth cōprehend under it the administration of the word , prayer , and sacrament , and if it must be restrained to their owne particular churches onely , it is unlawfull for a pastor to preach or call upon the name of god in any publike assembly save his own , upon any occasion , as these be duties prtaining to common confession or profession of faith . ordinary pastors and teachers it is true , are not apostles , who are to go from place to place , from country to country , to plant and erect churches , but they are tied ordinarily to one flock , as the text proveth , and to which purpose it is commonly cited . but that a pastor is so tied to his flock , that he can perform no ministeriall act to any other upon any occasion that it proveth not , nor can we find that it was ever so understood by divines ancient or modern . w. b. telleth us , the learned bring these allegations to this purpose . but the authour in alledging the consent of the learned was very carelesse or much abused , for there is not one that speaketh to the purpose . i. d. disclaimeth that position ; and for the rest it is a matter notorious , they were never thought to be of that opinion ; and wee doubt not if any could be named to free this allegation from suspition of novelty , you would have cited one or more as you have done in that which followeth . feed the flock of god ( saith peter . ) but he speaks of all those dispersed churches to whom he writes , which he calls a chosen generation , a royall priesthood ▪ a peculiar people : and in some respect of reason , under which we may apprehend them , are one flock , but not really as combined under the same pastor , or meeting in one place . and as these dispersed believers , or societies make one flock : so the ministers attending their flocks or societies , and the ministery exercised by them is , or maketh one . a minister chosen and set over one society , is to looke unto his people committed to his charge , and feed the flock over which the lord hath made him overseer , but he is a minister in the church universall , for as the church is one , so is the ministery one , of which every minister ( sound or orthodox ) doth hold his part , and though he be minister over that flock onely which he is to attend , yet he is a minister in the universal church . the functiō or power of exercising that function in the abstract , must be distinguished from the power of exercising it , concretely , according to the divers circumstances of places . the first belongeth to a minister every where in the church , the latter is proper to the place and people where he doth minister . the lawfull use of his power is limited to that congregation ordinarily . the power it self is not so limited and bounded . in ordination , presbyters are not restrained to one or other certaine place , as if they were to be deemed ministers there onely , though they be set over a certain people . and as the faithfull in respect of a community betwixt them , must and ought to performe the offices of love one to another , though of different societies , so the ministers in respect of their communion , must and ought upon occasion to performe ministeriall offices towards the faithfull of distinct societies . if this be not so , what shall become of the poore flock when the pastor is driven away by personall persecution , so that he cannot , if others may not afford them helpe and succour : what when the congregation it selfe is dispersed , must no sheepherd receive them into fold , when they are driven from their own , or neglected by him ? if the pastor may be absent from his flock upon necessary , just , and weighty occasion , respecting his own good , the good of that society , or the common good of churches consociate , then may the pastor , the soaiety , the churches procure some man to supply the defect , and doe the office of a pastor , preach the word , pray , and as occasion is offered , administer the sacrament in that congregation unto that assembly untill their sheepheard shall returne . shall the people be left as sheepe without a sheepheard ; because for the good of the churches their owne sheepheard is called from them for a time , that he might returne with greater joy and comfort ? the pastor is appointed to feed his own flock , and yet for the good of the whole church he may be called to leave , if not the care , yet the over-sight of his flock fot a while ; and by the same reason a pastor of another flock or congregation may performe the office , and doe the acts of a minister in his congregation during absence : yea if for the good of the churches he be called away , doe not the churches stand obliged in conscience to provide that the flock sustain to hurt by his absence which possibly yee cannot doe if one minister may not performe a ministeriall act in another congregation . if the prophets of one church may prophesy in another , and apply their doctrines , exhortations and prayers to any of the occasions of the churches where they speake , whereof they are not set members , what hinders why the pastor of one congregation , may not preach and pray , administer the sacraments in another ? the pastor of one congregation is appointed to his peculiar charge , but he is a minister in the universall church , as well as the prophets of one church may bee called prophets of the universall church by vertue of that communion which all true churches have one with another . without consent the prophet may not prophesie by exhortation , and with consent the pastor may administer the sacraments . in the primitive churches when elders were ordained in every city , they were not onely to looke to their flock but indeavour the conversion of poore infidels among whom they lived , and the inlargement of christs kingdome , for the worke of the lord must be done in its season , and then was the time of the calling of the gentiles : it was not their office proper and essentiall to travail from countrey to countrey as did the apostles , nor were they pastors of the infidels , but by private instruction and publique teaching ( if any of them would bee penitent ) they were to labour the comming of them to god. and these infidels converted to the faith were to be baptised of the elders ordinarily in those cities , though the number might bee so great as they could not well meete in one congregation , nor be subject to the same pastor ; for either they must bee baptized by the pastors among whom they lived , ( being converted to the faith ) or continue unbaptized untill they were a number convenient to make a distinct society , or grow together into one body , and to elect and choose their own minister by whom they may be baptised : but that either they must stay so long without baptisme , or that a society of unbaptised men had power in those times to elect and choose their minister , by whom they should be baptised is contary to all presidents in scripture . and so if a pastor may not performe a ministeriall act to any other person or people but his own flock onely , then a company newly converted from infidelity , which cannot joyne themselves as set members to another assembly , must remain unbaptised till they have chosen their minister to doe that office . then must the people thus converted want officers til there be among themselves able men to pray , preach , exhort in the congregation at the ordination of their minister , or ( if that may bee omitted ) till there be fit men among them to examine the fitnesse of him that is chosen . if subtile heretikes arise , and seduce , and draw away many from the faith , and the body of the society be not able to convince them , either they must be let alone or cast out without conviction , for neighbouring ministers stand in peculiar relation to their flocks onely , and must not meddle beyond their calling according to your tenent . there is no precept or example in scripture more to warrant the admitting of a set member of one congregation unto the supper in another , or the baptising of his child , occasionally in another assembly then there is for receiving of knowne and approved christians , and their seede that are not set members . the pastor is no more the pastor of the one then of the other , nor the one more of his flock then the other , neither of them set members , and both sorts may be members for the time being , and they most properly who are of longest abode among them . but as we heare it is frequent among you ( as at dorchester , &c. ) to baptise the children of another assembly , and usually you admit to the supper of the lord , members of other churches , and therefore the minister is not so limited to his particular church or flock but he may dispence the seales to others , which in this consideration is denyed . if the want of one officer in a congregation for a time , may be supplyed by another , as the want of the doctor , ruling elder , or deacon , by the pastor ; why may not the defects of some congregation or christians be supplyed by pastors or ministers of another congregation , when they are requested and desired ? the minde herein is godly , and the means lawfull , and well pleasing unto god. and if a synod consisting of sundry members of particular churches , met together in the name of christ about the common and publike affaires of the churches shall joyn together in prayer and communion of the supper , wee can see no ground to question it as unlawfull , although that assembly be no particular congregation or church , hath no pastor over them , make not one ecclesiasticall body as a particular congregationall church , unlesse it be for the time onely . the minister therefore may do an act of office to them that be not set members of his flock as he may stand in relation to them for the time . your comparison betwixt an officer of a town corporate , and of a particular congregation is not alike , unlesse you will say that a member of another corporation occasionally comming into the towne , is thereby a member of that society , and subject to the authority of the officer . for so you professe that the members of one society may occasionally communicate with another , and so be subject to the pastor for the time being , which if you grant , it overthrows the whole strength of this consideration . howsoever the comparison it selfe is very perilous if it be pressed . for if the officer of a town corporate , presume to doe an act of power out of his owne corporation , it is a meer nullity , but if a minister of the gospell dispence the sacrament of baptisme , or the lords supper to believers of another society ( though done without consent ) it was never deemed or judged a nullity in the church of god. let the comparison hold good , and most christians have cause to question whether they be truly baptized , or ever lawfully received the sacrament of the lords supper . if it may not be doubted , whether ever the sacraments of the new testament were truly or by authority dispenced , especially if we consider what follows in the other considerations . this argument from comparison is very usuall in the writings of brethren against communion with our churches , but for the most part greatly mistaken , to say no more . answer consideration . circumcision and the passoever were to be administred onely to the members of the church . ergo , baptisme and the lords supper is so to be administred also . the consequence is made good by the parity of these ordinances . for if the argument hold strong for the proofe of paedo-baptisme which is taken from the circumcision of infants , why may we not as well infer a necessity of church membership to baptisme , from the necessity of it to circumcision . and that circumcision was peculiar to the church members of the church , may appeare in that persons circumcised , & onely they , might eat the passeover , and they onely might enter into the temple , which were the priviledges of church members . in our answer to the second objection against the first consideration we have shewed that circumcision was not administred to all that were under the covenant of grace ( which all believers were ) but onely such of them as joyned themselves to the church , at first in abrahams family , whereunto baptisme doth so far answer that the apostle counteth these expresse equivalent to be circumcised in christ with circumcision made without hands , and to be buried with christ in baptisme . indeed , in somethings they differ as onely the males were circumcised , whereas with us females are also baptized . the reason is because god hath limited circumcision to the males , but under the gospel , that difference is taken away . againe , circumcision was administred in the private family ; but baptisme , onely in the publick assemblies of the church . the reason of this difference is , because they were bound to circumcise the males on the eighth day , but that could not stand with going to the temple which was too far off , for the purpose , to bring every child thither from all parts of judaea to be circumcised the eighth day . nor had they alway opportunity of a solemne convention in the synagogue on every eighth day ; when some child or other might be to be circumcised . but there is no precise day set downe for baptisme , nor are opportunities of publick assemblies so remote where churches are kept in a congregationall frame , but that every first day of the week baptisme may be administred if it be required . again , for the aforesaid reason , circumcision required not a peculiar minister ( for ought we finde in scripture ) but it is not so in baptisme , as was shewd in the second consideration . but no good reason can be given , why , in this they should not both agree viz. that they are both to be dispensed onely to members of the visible church , as it hath been proved in the first consideration . reply . this whole reason as it is propounded makes onely against it selfe ; who ever thought that the seals of the covenant were not proper to confederates or the church of god ? but of old all visible believers under the covenant of grace , walking in holinesse , were of the visible church , and in church order according to the dispensation of those times , though not joyned in externall society with the family of abraham . and to exclude melchisedeck or iob , because they were no members of the visible church , when yet they were visible believers under the covenant of grace , and in church order as those times required , is well-nigh a contradiction , and so it is to debar known and approved christians members of our congregation , and their seed from the seals , because they be not of the visible church , for they are members of the church , and so to bee held and esteemed all true churches and members of the church , the true & proper meaning of this consideration , is that as circumcision and the passeover were not to be dispensed to all visible believers under the covenant of grace , but onely to such as were joyned to abrahams family , or to the people of the god of abraham , no more may baptisme and the lords supper be administred to any believers now , unlesse they be joyned to some particular congregation in church membership , or unlesse by solemne covenant , they be set members of some particular assemblies . the strength of this consideration stands in the parity which is betwixt the sacraments of the old and new testament , circumcision and baptisme , for parum par est ratio , but this parity is not found in every thing ( as is manifest by the particulars alleadged in the consideration it self . ) and wee must justly require some reason to prove them like in that particular , but to unfold it more fully , we will consider three things . first , how far an argument may be drawn soundly from one sacrament to another , or wherein the sacraments agree , and wherein they differ . secondly , what wee are to think of the proposition it self . thirdly , whether the reason of circumcision and baptisme be one in that particular . first the sacraments of the old testament and the new agree in their common author , nature and end , and therfore what is spoken of one in respect of the common author , nature and end that doth hold true of everie one . if circumcision be of divine institution a seale of the righteousnesse of faith , and of the covenant of grace , a sacrament in generall is an ordinance divine , a seale of the covenant proper and peculiar to them that bee confederates . but what is peculiar to one sacrament that agreeth not to another . what is proper to the sacraments of the old testament , in respect of the manner of dispensation that agreeth not to the new , as if the sacraments of the old testament be with bloud , obscure in signification , painfull for use , peculiar to one nation , and to bee abolished , the sacraments of the new testament must be without bloud , cleere for signification , easie for use , universall to all nations , and perpetuall to continue in the church for ever . circumcision and baptisme are both sacraments of divine institution , and so they agree in the substance of the things signified , the persons to whom they are to bee administred , and the order of administration , if the right proportion bee observed . as circumcision sealed the entrance into the covenant the righteousnesse of faith , and circumcision of the heart : so doth baptisme much more clearly : as abraham and his houshold , and the infants of beleiving iews were to be circumcised , so the faithful , their families , and their seed are to bee baptized . none must eate the passeover who was not circumcised , women excepted , who were circumcised in the males . nor may a man unbaptized be admitted to the lords supper . circumcision was but once applied by gods appointment and the same holds in baptisme according to the will and good pleasure of god : but circumcision and baptisme agree not in their speciall forme , and manner of dispensation appointed of god. and in these things a reason cannot be drawn from the one to the other affirmatively . the males onely were to be circumcised as only capable of that signe : but males and semales both ought to be baptized . the infants males were to be circumcised the eighth day because seaven dayes they were legally uncleane . but the seed of the faithfull are not to bee reputed uncleane . ergo , no set tyme is appointed for baptisme . circumcision as other ceremonies did distinguish the iewes from the gentiles ; but christ now of two hath made one . circumcision signified christ to come , baptisme is the seale of the new covenant made in christ already come . and so in the degree of grace given , some difference may be put : the other differences alleadged in the considerations with the reasons thereof are not so cleere and undoubted : for baptisme is not tyed to the first day of the weeke : and the jewes might gather an assembly on the eighth day as occasion required and it might be appropriated to the priests and levites though done in private : but in whatsoever they agree or differ we must looke to the institution and neither stretch it wider , nor draw it narrower then the lord hath made it . for hee is the institutor of the sacraments according to his owne good pleasure . and it is our part to learne of him , both to whom , how , and for what end the sacraments are to be administred , how they agree , and wherein they differ . in all which we must affirme nothing but what god hath taught us , and as he hath taught us . secondly , as for the proposition it selfe ; certaine it is , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the visible members of the church , e. to men in covenant , professing the true faith ; but that in abrahams time none were visible members of the church , which joyned not themselves in church orders to the family of abraham , wee have not learned . in the first institution of circumcision , we find that god gave it to abraham , as the seale of the covenant formerly made with him : but of any church covenant or order whereunto abrahams family should enter before circumcision we read not . melchizedeck , lot , iob , &c. were not onely visible beleevers under the covenant of grace , but visible members of the church , according to the order and dispensation of those times . wee read not ( you say ) that melchizedeck , lot or iob were circumcised , but that is no good reason to inferre negatively that they were not circumcised . we read not that iohn the baptist , or the apostles , or the . brethren were baptized , wee must not forthwith conclude , that they were not initiated by that seale . moreover , if they were not circumcised , it may bee the institution of that sacrament was not knowne unto them , or the authour of circumcision ( upon whose will and pleasure they must depend ) did not command it unto them , or require that they should joyne themselves in covenant with abrahams family : and in that case if they had circumcised themselves they had transgressed . but then the reason why they were not circumcised was not this , that they were not ( as you speake ) in church order : but because circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family by divine institution in some speciall and peculiar respects belonging to the manner of administration . after the church of the jewes was constituted ( when wee can no more imagine that there was a church among the gentiles , then that there are christians among the barbarians at this day ) we finde none must be admitted to the passeover that was not first circumcised , but nothing was required of a stranger to circumcision , but that he professe the true faith , and avouch the god of abraham to be his god , which of necessitie must be done before he could be reputed a visible beleever , or under the covenant of promise . thus a learned and reverend divine , circumcision was a seale of the covenant , that god made with abraham concerning christ that should come as concerning the flesh of isaac and so of iacob of whom were the tribes who were the israelites , &c. rom. . . . so that as in abrahams time none were bound to be circumcised but those that were of his family as being borne there or bought , and so brought thither which were not of his seed : so afterwards none were bound to be circumcised which were not borne in the family of jacob and patriarchs , or joyned to them . and after their comming out of egypt none were bound to be circumcised but the children of the iewes ( then the only church of god , ) and those that desired to joyne unto them . the summe is thus much , god gave circumcision to abraham as a seale of the covenant but whether it was given to other beleevers in his time it is ( at least ) a thing uncertaine . and if they were not circumcised it was by reason of the speciall institution of god , and peculiar manner of administration of the covenant of promise which in some respect was proper , to the family of abraham , and not common to all the visible members of the church at that time in church fellowship and order . afterwards when there were none in covenant but the seed of iacob or strangers professing the faith of abraham , circumcision was not to be administred to any man who was not in covenant nor any man to bee admitted to the passeover who was not circumcised . this is the most that can be said with any probability : but hence it will not follow by iust analogie or proportion , that the seed of the faithfull must not bee admitted to baptisme , or visible believers be received to the lords supper unlesse they bee set members of some particular congregation united in church order . thirdly , presupposing therefore that melchizedeck , lot and iob , were not circumcised , we say there is not the like reason of circumcision and baptisme in this particular . for , first if circumcision was ever appropriated to the family of abraham , and might be communicated to other visible beleevers , it was in the first institution and administration ; but in the first institution and administration of baptisme , it was not observed that beleevers should be first gathered into a politicall body or christian church membership , and then baptized . iohn the baptist baptized such as came to him confessing their sins . the apostles baptized disciples , such as gladly received their doctrine , beleeved in jesus christ , and received the gifts of the holy ghost , before they were gathered into christian church order , or made fit members of a christian congregationall assembly . if circumcision was by speciall institution given as a priviledge to the males of abrahams familie , melchizedecke , iob , lot , and other visible beleevers were not bound to joyne themselves as members to abrahams familie , or desire and seek to be circumcised : but they that have received the doctrine of salvation , beleeve christ , and professe the faith , are bound to seek , and desire the priviledge of the seals in an holy manner . . melchizedech , job , and lot were not onely visible beleevers , but visible members of the church , according to the manner of dispensing in those times : but the seals ( as you confesse ) belong to all beleevers knit together in church-covenant . . if circumcision be appropriated to the family of abraham , it is because the covenant sealed by circumcision is peculiar to abrahams posteritie , ( sc . ) that christ should come as concerning the flesh , of isaac . but baptisme is the seal of the covenant of grace without any peculiar or speciall tye or respect . . you contend , that baptisme did belong to such beleevers as were members of the then jewish church , which cannot stand , if abrahams familie did answer to a christian societie or congregationall assembly ; just reason therefore may be given why circumcision was dispensed onely to the males of abrahams familie , when baptisme is not to be limited onely to the set members of a particular societie ; and if this consideration be applied to the purpose , instead of saying , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the members of the church , you must say circumcision was to be desired of or administred unto all the true approved visible members of the church . and if there be the same reason of both , then all visible approved members of the church must not desire nor be admitted to the seals , but this conclusion you will not acknowledge . answ . . consideration . they that are not capable of the church censures , are not capable of the church priviledges : but they that are not within church-covenant are not capable of church censures . ergo. the proposition is evident , the assumption may be proved , corinth . . . what have i to do to judge them that are without . now to be without is not onely the case of heathens and excommunicates , but of some beleevers also , who though by externall union with christ they are within the covenant of grace , yet being not joyned externally to the visible bodie of christ ( a particular church ) are in regard of visible church communion said to be without . to this purpose is this text alledged by other divines also , as dr. ames cas . of consci . l. . c. . q. . resp . . reply . first , men are capable of church censures in two respects , either in having the power of the keyes , and authoritie to dispense them according to god , or as subject to the censures of the church . in the first sense , many are capable of church priviledges that are not capable of church censures , as the seed of christian parents , children and women . you say you admit to the seales the knowne and approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church : but to fellowship in the censures , admittance of members , and choice of officers onely , the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . in the second sense also many are capable of church priviledges who are not subject to church censures : as the children of christian parents are capable of baptisme , the known and approved members of any true church are capable of the seales in other congregations among you who are not subject to the censures of that other society . spirituall communion in publick prayer is a church priviledge , which is not denied to visible beleevers and godly persons , though not in church order , and so not in subjection in your sense to church censures . secondly , a person baptised is not baptised in that particular congregation onely , but into all churches , and every particular church where he cometh he hath all the priviledges of a baptised person in respect of his baptisme , and is so to be esteemed by them . now the priviledge of a baptised person who is able to examine himself , and walketh in the truth , is to be admitted to the lords supper . all circumcised persons had right thereby to eat the passeover in any societie , in the place which god should chuse to put his name there . exod. . . . deut. . , . so all baptised persons have true and intire right to the lords supper in everie true church where god hath set his name . thirdly , there is not the same reason of every church priviledge , for one may have right to some , who is not to meddle with others . the members of one society may hear the word , joyne in prayer , and receive the sacraments in another , when they are not to meddle in the election and ordination of their teachers . the ministers of the gospel may preach the word , and administer the sacraments in another congregation , and hereto he needs no other calling but that god offers an opportunitie ; there is much need of his help , and he is intreated , or hath leave from them in place or office ; but he is not to admit members into the societie , or cast them out that be admitted . and if the pastor of one church shall preach or administer the sacraments in another , contrary to the liking and approbation of the society and governours , though the act be irregular , it was never esteemed a nullitie ; but if he shall presume to excommunicate the members of another societie , without the consent or the church , and approbation of pastors and teachers , under whose charge and jurisdiction they live , it hath been judged a meer nullity . therefore the proposition is not so evident as to be taken without proofe , that they have no power to admit a beleever into communion in any church priviledge who have no power to excommunicate . fourthly , that visible beleevers baptised into a true church professing the true faith , and walking in holy obedience , and godly conversation , that they and their seed should be judged such as are without in the aposles sense , because they be not externally joyned as set members to some particular congregation in church-covenant is affirmed , not proved . . it hath , and may fall out many times through the ignorance , rashnesse , or pride of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or congregation of christ may be no members of any distinct visible societie . and shall their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers from the covenant , and debarred from the sacraments , because their parents are unjustly seperated from the inheritance of the lord ? surely as parents unjustly excommunicated do continue still not onely true members of the invisible body , but visible members of the flock of christ : so the right of baptisme doth belong to the infants of such parents , though not actuall and constant members of this or that present assembly in church order . . if they be without , because no members of a politike bodie or spirituall fellowship : then all members which are of one societie are without to another : for they that be not of the bodie are not capable of church censures , or subject to the authoritie one of another . and so not being under the judgement of that particular church to it they are without ; whereas in ancient and moderne times distinct societies did communicate together , admit and receive each other as brethren , to testifie their fellowship in the faith . if the reason whereupon the apostle saith the church of corinth was not to judge them that were without , was because they were not within the church of corinth , and so not under their censure or judgement : this holds true of them that be of another society admitted to the sacrament , as well as of such as be no set members desiring to be received to the lords supper . . ( the fornicators of this world ) do they not explaine whom the apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without , ver . . . such as had not received the covenant of grace . . church order is necessarie we denie not ; but this order that a man should be a constant and set member of a particular societie by covenant , to make him a true member of the visible church , or to give him title or interest to the publick order , this is not taught of god. . paul divides all men into two ranks , the first and greater without ; the last and lesser within : but that beleevers who have received the holy ghost , and have been baptised into jesus christ , that they and their children should be reckoned among them that are without , that we read not in this nor any other scripture , but in phrase of scripture hereticks themselves are within the church . . the beleevers not yet gathered ( as the godly learned think ) into a certain distinct body are called beleevers , brethren , disciples ; but that they should be comprehended under them that are without , it hath not been beleeved in the church . . without ( faith the apostle whether alluding to this place or not , let others judge ) are dogs , inchanters , whoremongers , not such as are called faithfull and holy , walking in integritie , beleeving in and professing jesus christ to be their saviour . . they that are without in the apostles sense are aliens from the common-wealth of israel , strangers from the covenant of promise , having no hope , and without god in the world : but we hope you will not passe such rash and unadvised censure upon your brethren , who be not gathered into your societie as set members . . let the interpretation stand , and he is without , not onely who is no set member of some congregationall assembly , but he that is not subject to the censure of the community of that particular combination few or many , with , or without officers . and so all the reformed churches in the world who ascribe the power of the keyes to the presbitry or classes , and not to the community , and some amongst your selves ( if not the most ) shall be without also . and therefore we cannot think approved christians desiring to be received unto the sacrament , either to be without , or uncapable of church censures for the time being if they should offend , though not set members of any particular congregation : for desiring baptisme for their children or themselves to be admitted to the lords supper for the time they put themselves under the ordinance of jesus christ there . and as they are members for the time , so they might be proceeded against according to the rule prescribed by our saviour , as they would proceed with an offending member . . if upon just and good reason a passage of scripture can be cleared to prove that for which it was never alledged by any writer , we are not to except against any truth of god , because it wanteth mans testimonie . onely if we desire credit in such cases , our reasons must be weightie and convincing . but for your exposition of this text of scripture , as yet we have not observed one substantiall ground , or approved author to be alledged . doctor ames shewing the necessitie of christians joyning themselves to some particular church , giveth this reason , quoniam alias fieri non potest quum conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt . . cor. . . but herein dr. ames manifestly sheweth that by them that are [ without ] heathens , and unbeleevers must be understood , and not beleevers and godly men though of no particular setled societie for the time , for thus we conceive he argueth . the signes and evidences whereby the faithfull are to be discerned from unbeleevers , must not be confounded : but unlesse christians make themselves actuall members of a societie or church , the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers , will be obscured and darkned . and if this be his reason how can that text of scripture be alledged for confirmation , unlesse by [ men without ] infidels be understood . again doctor ames in the same book , lib. . ca. . speaking of infants to be received , it is required ( he saith ) that they be in the covenant of grace in respect of outward profession , and estimation in respect of their parents , and that there is hope they shall be instructed and brought up in the same covenant . . that baptisme doth most properly belong to those infants whose parents , at least one of them is in the church , and not without , because baptisme is a signe and seale of the covenant of grace . . that children that are cast forth are in charitie to be esteemed the children of christian parents , when there is no just cause of presuming the contrary , that in admitting unto baptisme a difference must be put betweene the infants of those who in some sort belong to the church , but openly break the covenant of god , and the children of others . . because a distinction must be observed in holy things betweene the cleane and uncleane ; seeing else the ordinance of god cannot be preserved from all pollution . to say nothing of that which he addeth touching the baptisme of infants borne in fornication , excommunication , and papists , which is more then sufficient to cleare his meaning in the former passage . to this may be added that he holdeth it not necessarie that christians should gather themselves into a particular society , but as opportunitie and occasion should offer it self . so that it was never his mind to censure them who be not gathered into church-covenant , because they want means or opportunitie as men without in the apostles sense . his judgement is further manifested in his second manuduction , pa. . so many parish assemblies of england ( saith he ) as have any competent number of good christians in them , united to worship god ordinarily in one societie , so many have the essence and integrall forme of a visible church , and all they have intire right to christ , and to all the meanes of injoying him , how ever they are defective in the puritie of their combination , and in the compleat free exercising of their power , whereupon a reverend * elder now among you draws this conclusion , ergo to dischurch them wholly , and to separate from them as no churches of christ , or to denie baptisme to the infants of their known members is not warrantable by any rule of scripture that i know , nor justified by any assertion or practise . answ . . consideration . vve may adde hereunto for a fifth consideration , the evill and pernicious consequences of extending communion in church priviledges beyond the bounds of church fellowship : for thus , . the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers will be much confounded , if the latter be as illimited as the former in the execution of their office beyond the bounds of their own particular churches . . the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude is abroagated , if without membership in a particular church the parents may communicate with the churches in the lords supper , and their seed in baptisme . . the church shall indanger the profaning of the seals , and want one speciall meanes whereby the grace and pietie of men may be discerned and made known ; for if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as you say ) are to be admitted to fellowship in the seales , how shall their pietie be approved to the church not by their own report of themselves alone without attestation of such as are approved by the church ; and how can such beare witnesse to their approved pietie , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ by orderly joyning themselves in fellowship with some approved church of christ as members thereof when they have opportunitie thereunto , seeing such fellowship is an action of pietie required of all beleevers in the second commandment ; and true pietie frameth mens spirits to have respect to all gods commandments . and we have had much experience of it , that men of approved pietie in the judgement of some have been found too light , not onely in the judgement of others , but even of their own consciences , when they have come to triall in offering themselves to be members of churches , with such a blessing hath god followed this order of taking hold of church-covenant by publick profession of faith and repentance before men be admitted to the seales ; but this meanes of discoverie of mens pietie and sinceritie would be utterly lost , if men should be admitted unto the lords table without entring in church-fellowship . reply . if it be repugnant to divine institution to admit of approved christians lawfully baptized , walking in the faith , members of the visible churches , and partakers of church priviledges among us to the lords supper , or their children to baptisme , because they be not entred into church fellowship according to your order , then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to be feared . but if by accident some abuse should fall out , the evill is to be prevented by all lawfull meanes : but the faithfull are not utterly to be debarred of the order of god , whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious invitation . and no question but the seales of the covenant may be profaned many times when it is not in the power of the dispensers to put back or expell such as profane them . if the congregation shall admit of , or tolerate an unworthy member , the churches priviledges are profaned ; and yet we conceive you will say the pastor is not faulty in receiving him , when the church doth tolerate unworthily , if he do what pertaineth to his office to keep the holy things of god from contempt . but in the case propounded there is no feare or danger of such consequences necessarie to follow : for the question is not of all sorts at randame , but of christians professing the faith intirely , lawfully baptised , known , and approved to the consciences of the wise and judicious visible members of the churches of christ among us often admitted to the lords table , whether these either sufficiently knowne unto you , or orderly recommended may upon desire and suite themselves be admitted to communicate in the lords supper , and their children to be baptized , what feare is there now that the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers shall be much or little confounded ? is this to take as illimited power as the apostles did in the execution of their office ? how shal this tend to abrogate the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude ? or how is the profanation of the seals thereby indangered ? you aske if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as we say ) are to be admitted into fellowship in the seals , how shall their pietie be approved to the church , not by their own report of themselves alone , &c. do not you say the same , that there be many godly persons , and of approved pietie among us , who are not approved by their own report of themselves ( unlesse ye will take their wisedome , faith , patience , courage , constancie , and holinesse of life for their report ) approved , we say by as ample and sufficient testimonie as the apostles exacted of them whom they received into church fellowship , or can be required of members admitted unto the priviledges of the church , if men will follow the lords direction , or as you can give to ordinances members of your societies . you professe high respect of your brethren in old england , but it seemes you judge them insufficient to give orderly testimonie of the sinceritie and uprightnesse of approved christians , well known unto them , and living among them , which two cannot well agree . we speake not of such who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ to joyne themselves orderly in fellowship with some approved church : but of such as do with all readinesse professe subjection , and walk accordingly , and heartily desire to joyn themselves to the most pure and compleat churches so farre as they are taught of god , or have opportunitie thereunto . and if exception be taken against them onely , who refuse against light to submit themselves to the gospel ; by what rule do you proceed when you judge men to refuse against light , or debarre them who do not refuse against conscience , but for lacke of opportunitie . no doubt ( as you say ) but now and then a man of approved pietie in the judgement of some may be found too light , yea and in the judgement of his owne conscience when he hath come to triall . and no question but many have been admitted by the church , who indeed and truth are much too light ; and some refused who deserved better then they that cast them off , we will not dispute what errours have been committed , nor what blessing ye have found upon your proceedings ; we heartily beseech the lord to keep your congregation pure , make his ordinances more and more effectuall , go before you in the way wherein you should walk , and multiply his mercies upon you in the same . but this we are perswaded , and therefore we speak , that in debarring godly christians from the lords supper , and much more the children of those parents who are in covenant with god , from holy baptisme you exceed your commission you have received from god , and go beyond your due bounds . and notwithstanding your circumspection more worthy and faithfull christians have been denied when of lesse worth , and meaner sufficiencies have passed , and been by you received . answ . . consid . none have power to dispence the seales but they that are called to the office of ministery ; and no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , seeing the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church ; and thence it follows , that all those that desire to partake of the seales , are bound to joyne themselves in church state , that so they may call a minister to dispense the seales unto them . and this dutie by the appointment of god lieth not onely upon some christians , but equally upon all : ergo no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seals till he have joyned himselfe in church fellowship , and in the call of the minister . and indeed seeing a church , and a minister called by the church , is of such necessitie for the dispensing of the seales , it may seeme unreasonable that some christians should be bound to become a church , and to call a minister that so the seales may be dispensed , and other men ( when this is done ) have equall libertie to the seals who refuse to joyne unto the church . reply . this conclusion is not to the question propounded , for we speake of such as cannot , not of such as refuse to joyne themselves unto the church ; or if they do not joyne , it is not out of contempt or wilfull neglect of gods ordinance , or desire of carnall libertie , and not to be in subjection to christ , but for lacke of opportunitie , or through their fault that should admit them but do not . for if in any of your churches you shall require more of members to be admitted then christ the chiefe shepherd of the flock doth , or presse that upon their consciences which they cannot consent unto , if they shall fit downe quietly for the time and serve god in private , when they cannot injoy church priviledges , it is your fault and not theirs . and they may more justly challenge the assemblie as injurious and tyrannicall , then you them as wilfull despisers of gods ordinance . we accuse not the wisedome and discretion of your chuches , but we know the zealous multitude may sometimes be rash ; and when a reason is craved of your judgement , why you do debarre the most knowne and approved christians which come over , and their children from the seals of the covenant , we dislike you should put this note upon them , as if against light they refused orderly to subject themselves to the gospel of jesus christ : what warrant you have thus to censure , what use of this manner of dispute we leave it to your godly wisedome to judge . in the consideration it self there are many propositions couched together , which we must examine severally as they have reference to the conclusion intended , and then try whether it can be raised from them . the first proposition , that none have power to dispence the seales , but they that are called to the office of ministery , is freely granted . the second , that no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , needeth explication . for by the church you must understand the community of the faithfull , as they are one bodie , without officers or guides . and such a church there cannot be without a ministery to call and admit them into church-fellowship . the apostles baptised not themselves , but by the help of others , & those not called of the people to be baptised , cor. . . the apostles appointed by electiō , elders in every city or church . and so there was a church before elders were set over it , but this church was a societie of beleevers by baptisme admitted into church-fellowship . there can be no church to call a minister to feed the flock , and dispence the seals , till they have received the doctrine of salvation intirely , and by the seale of initiation be solemnly received into the societie of men professing christ . a company of men converted to the faith being unbaptized , may and ought to desire baptisme , but they have not power to elect and chuse one among themselves to dispence the seales unto the rest for ought is to be found in scripture : the churches constitution into which christians are to gather themselves must be apostolicall , and not one day or houre younger in nature and forme of it , thus the first church of the new testament . but it can never be shewed in scripture that any societie of unbaptised persons did first chuse from among them a pastor or teacher by whom they might be baptised : you cannot produce one example or other proofe in the scripture , of one man teaching the gospel ministerially but he was baptised , and a member of a true church , or of a societie who made choice of a pastor and teacher , but they were baptised persons . the third proposition , that the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church , must also be rightly understood : for by the church must be meant the societie of the faithfull , not onely ingrafted into christ , set into the state of salvation , and made heires apparent of everlasting blessednesse , but solemnly entred and inrolled into the societie of christs flock , and acknowledged members by free admission into the seales of the covenant . againe , by the church if we speake of ordinary calling , must not be understood of the faithfull alone , but their guides and officers together with them , who are to goe before the rest , and to direct and governe them in their choice . neither can we say , that any two or three beleevers linked together in societie doe make such a church , as to whom the calling of the minister doth belong : but that right was given by christ to such churches as were gathered and established by the apostles . the church hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . but the office , gift , and power of the ministery , is immediately from christ and not from the church . the church doth neither virtually nor formally give power to her officers but ministerially onely , as ministring to him who hath power and vertue to conferre it . and this right of election is so given to the communitie and body of the people , that if they have consented to give away their right , or if it be taken injuriously from them , the calling of the minister notwithstanding may be true , and ministeriall acts done by him that is thrust upon the people without their consent may be effectuall to their salvation . a wrong it is altogether to debarre the godly of their consent in the calling of such as must watch for their soules ; but it makes not the calling it selfe a meere nullitie ; for then many churches in the world within a few hundred yeares after christ should have wanted both ministery and sacraments , and they would have been altogether destitute of both ministery and sacraments for many hundred yeares . the fourth , that all those who desire to partake in the seales , are bound to joyne themselves together in church-state , that so they may call a minister to dispence the seales unto them , will not follow from the former rightly understood . we deny not but christians are bound to joyne themselves together in holy fellowship , if god give them opportunitie : but they must partake in the seales before they can joyne themselves together in church-state . and such as for lack of meanes and opportunitie cannot joyne themselves into such an estate , or be dispersed by persecution , or be destitute of pastors and teachers , may for a time desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by the pastors and teachers of other societies , with whom they hold communion in the faith . the people also who are deprived of right and libertie to choose their pastor , may desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by him who is set over them . if a company of infidells should be converted to the faith , they must desire to partake in the ordinances of grace before they could joyne together in a church-way to call a minister of their own , who might administer the sacraments unto them . to make disciples and baptize are joyned together . and if these propositions be allowed for current , a nation or people plunged into idolatry or infidelitie , or otherwise dischurched , cannot by ordinary meanes recover into a church-estate , wherein they may lawfully and according to gods appointment desire or expect that the seales of the covenant should be dispenced to them . the fifth proposition riseth beyond measure , that no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seales till he have joyned himselfe in church-fellowship and the calling of the minister . wee conceive you will not say that children and women have to doe in the call of the minister ( for women they are debarred by their sex as from ordinary prophesying , so from any other dealing wherein they take authority over the man ) if some part of the congregation doe not consent in the election of pastors or teachers , have they not right to expect to have the seales of the covenant dispenced to themselves or their seede ? if the people be deprived of that libertie to choose or call their minister , must they seperate from the ordinances of worship there dispenced , and from the congregations as no true churches ? if some persons by the providence of god live in such places where they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister ( as suppose the christian wife , childe , or servant ) nor lawfully remove to any such societie , must they and their children live as strangers and aliens from the covenant of grace , wherein they may not expect to partake of the seales ▪ in infidels be converted to the faith , must they not partake in the seales , because they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister , before they be admitted to baptisme ? here you say the people must joyne together in the call of the minister , before they can lawfully desire to be admitted to the seales . and another hath zealously affirmed ( it is a presumptuous sin in any to choose an officer not trained up and tryed ( scil . ) in the debating , discussing , carrying , and contriving of church-affaires , as also in admonition , exhortation , and comfort , publickly occasioned and so manifested ) lay these two together , and let it be considered how long many a poore soule converted to the faith must be compelled to want the comfort of gods ordinances . besides , if a people be joyned together in church-fellowship , and have called a pastor to feed and watch over them , wee desire ( not words but ) proofe why the poore dispersed christians wanting means or opportunitie to joyn themselves together into societie , ought not to desire , and that others be not bound in conscience to afford them the comfort of gods ordinances . if the propositions may stand for good , i feare we shall scarce finde that ever in ordinary way , the sacraments were lawfully dispenced or received in the christian churches of god since the first foundation of them . now the premises being liable to so many exceptions , the conclusion to be laid upon them , will fall of it selfe . and thereunto wee oppose the direct contrary . that infidels converted to the faith , or godly christians , formerly visible beleevers , knowne and approved members of congregations professing the intire faith , and joyning together in the lawfull use of the sacraments for substance according to the institution , may and ought to desire and expect the seales of the covenant to be dispenced to them , and to their seede , though for the present they be not joyned into such church-state and call of ministers as you require . answer . consideration . that our practise may not be censured as novell and singular , give us leave to produce a president of the like care observed and approved by publick countenance of state in the dayes of edward . of blessed and famous memory , who in the yeare . granted johannes alasco a learned noble man of poland under the great seale of england , libertie to gather a church of strangers in london , and to order themselves according as they should finde to be most agreeable to the scriptures . among other godly orders established in that church , that which concerned the administration of baptisme to prevent the prophanation of it we will repeate in alascoes owne words . baptisme in our church ( saith he ) is administred in the publique assembly of the church after the publique sermon : for seeing baptisme doth so belong to the whole church that none ought to be driven thence , which is a member of the church , nor to be admitted to it who is not a member of it , truely it is equall that that should be performed publiquely in the assembly of the whole church , which belongs to the whole church in common . againe , he addeth ; now seeing our churches are by gods blessing so established by the kings majestie , that they may be as it were one parish of strangers dispersed throughout the whole citie , or one body corporate ( as it is called in the kings grant ) and yet all strangers doe not joyne themselves to our church , yea there are those who while they avoyde all churches , will pretend to the english churches that they are joyned with us , and to us that they are joyned to the english churches , and so doe abuse both them and us , lest the english churches and the ministers thereof should be deceived by the impostures of such men ( and that under colour of our churches ) wee doe baptize their infants alone who have adjoyned themselves to our churches by publique confession of their faith , and observation of ecclesiasticall discipline . and that our churches may be certaine that the infants that are to be baptized are their seede , who have joyned themselves thereto in manner aforesaid , the father of the infant to be baptized ( if possible he can ) or other men and women of notable credit in the church , doe offer the infant to baptisme , and doe publickly professe that it is the seede of the church , yet wee suffer no stranger to offer infants to baptisme in our churches , who hath not made publique profession of his faith , and willingly submitted himselfe to the discipline of the church , lest otherwise they who present their children to baptisme , might in time plead that they belong to our churches , and so should deceive the english churches and their ministers . to those which presented infants to baptisme , they propounded three questions , the first was ; are these infants which yee offer the seed of this church , that they may lawfully be here baptized by our ministery ? &c. answer , yea. this instance is the more to be regarded , because alasco affirmeth in the preface of that book , that this libertie was by the king granted to them out of his desire to settle alike reformation in the english churches , which in effect you see the same with out practise in this particular . reply . the practise of the church of strangers in london , recorded by john alasco , is farre different from your judgement and practise , not in some by-circumstances , but in the maine point in question ; for your judgement is that true visible beleevers , baptized and partakers of the lords supper in other churches not yet gathered into church-estate or fellowship , have no right or interest in the seales , ( they nor their seede . ) but this church of strangers held no such opinion as their own words ( which you have omitted ) doe plainly speake . and paul testifyeth ( say they ) that by christs ordinance the church it selfe without exception of any member of it , is to be accounted cleane or holy by the ministery of baptisme . whence we may easily see , that baptisme doth neither belong to those who are altogether without the church , nor to be denyed to any member of the church . secondly , they held communion with the church of england as one and the same with theirs . for so they professe : yet neverthelesse , that we may openly shew that the english churches and ours are one and the same church ( though we differ somewhat from them both in language and ceremonies ) we doe not refuse that the english may as publick witnesses of the church offer the infants of our members to baptisme in our churches , if they have both the use of our language and a certain testimony of their piety . as in like manner our members are accustomed to offer the infants of the english to baptisme in the english churches . if your judgement be this of the english churches , your judgement in acknowledging us members of true churches , and practise in debarring visible beleevers and their seede from the seales , are opposite the one to the other . thirdly , this order was observed by them to prevent the impostures of some , who whilst they avoyded all churches , pretended to the english , that they were joyned to the strangers , and to the strangers that they were joyned to the english . but you debarre knowne christians who desire to joyne themselves with you , not to prevent impostures of them who avoyde all churches : yea , you debarre them as men having no right to the sacraments , because they be not in church-fellowship : and herein you can shew no president ancient or moderne , either from scripture or monuments of the church : and as your practise is without example , so without warrant from the word of god. and this is the maine reason why we cannot consent unto you in this particular which we thus propound . reason . that sacred order which god hath set in his visible church for all his saints to keep and walk by , that is religiously to be observed . but for men to set up that as a necessarie order which god never allowed , approved , or commanded , is great presumption . now the lord hath not ordained that a man should be a set member of a particular societie , or body politique of faithfull people joyned together in spirituall church-fellowship by covenant , before he be admitted unto the lords supper , or that the parents should be actuall visible set members of some particular distinct body before their children be baptised . they that beleeve in jesus christ have received the word of promise and walk therein , they and their children are within the covenant , and have right and title to the seales of the covenant , but in their order , the infants to baptisme , parents baptised , to the lords supper . and if in that state by divine grant they have interest to the sacraments , the church in debarring them because they be not yet grown into one distinct separate societie of mutuall covenant , doth exceed the bounds of her commission . for a ministeriall power onely is committed to the church to admit or refuse them who are to be admitted or refused by authoritie from god : but the church if she thrust beleeving parents from the supper of the lord , and their seed from baptisme ; she denieth these benefits to them who by the grace and gift of god have lawfull right and title thereto . . for first , the baptisme of john was true baptisme , and truly administred by him : and they that were baptized by him received the seales of the covenant , and were esteemed members of the visible church : but john never demanded of them who came to his baptisme whether they were entred into spirituall fellowship by mutuall covenant one with another . this was not then knowne to be a necessarie and essentiall point in the lawfull , due , and orderly administration of the sacrament . the disciples of our saviour made and baptised disciples professing the faith , but not combined into church-state or fellowship . the apostles commission was first to teach the gentiles , and then to baptise them having received their doctrine . and this they carefully observed in the execution of their ministery upon grounds and reasons common to them and us : for as soone as any man or number of men gladly received the doctrine of salvation , and gave their names to jesus christ , if they desired to be baptised forthwith they accepted them , never excepting , that they were no set members of a distinct visible congregation . when the first . converts , being pricked in their consciences , came to peter , and the rest of the apostles , saying , men and brethren , what shall we do ? peter returns this answer , repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus , &c. for to you is the promise made , and to your children , and to all that are afar off , &c. as soon as the samaritanes beleeved , philip who preached the things that concerned the kingdom of god , they were baptised both men and women . when the eunuch asked of philip , see here is water , what doth let me to be baptised ? he answereth not if thou beest first received as a set member into a visible congregation thou mayest : but if thou beleevest with all thy heart , thou mayest . can any man forbid water ( saith peter , speaking of the gentiles upon whom was powred the gift of the holy ghost ) that these should not be baptised who have received the gift of the holy ghost as well as we ? at that time it was not held a bar sufficient to keep them from the sacrament of baptisme , because they were not set members of a distinct societie , which had it been essentiall to the lawfull and orderly administration of the sacraments , questionlesse it had been observed in the first institution and administration of them . annanias baptised paul before he was any set member of a congregationall assembly . lydia and her houshold , the jaylor and his house were baptised without regard to their church-estate . for in the same night which he was converted , he was baptized with all his houshold . and this was done not by the apostles onely upon speciall dispensation , but by others upon grounds and reasons common to them , and all ages , viz. because they were disciples , beleeved , gladly received the word , had received the holy ghost , were called , and the promise was made to them , and to their seed , even to all them that were afarre off . now if the apostles dispensed the seales to them that were not in church-fellowship upon common grounds , it is not essentiall to the lawfull dispensation of the seales , that all partakers should be under such a covenant . if the baptised disciples , beleevers , such as gladly received the word , and had received the gift of the holy ghost , then the seals of the covenant belong unto such , and by the grace of god they have right and title unto those priviledges . . as we received the sacraments from god by divine institution ; so must we learne from him , how and to whom the same are to be administred , observing what he hath commanded without addition or diminution . but we have learned from christ the author of baptisme , and the constant practise of the apostles ( the first dispensers of these holy seales who best understood the mind and pleasure of the lord herein ) that such as be called of god to whom the promise is made , who have received the gifts of the holy ghost , beleeved in the lord jesus , professed their faith in him , and repentance for sins past with purpose of amendment for the time to come , that such have right unto , and desiring it ought to be received unto baptisme , and are greatly wronged if they be deprived of that unspeakable benefit . . by a lively faith a man is made a living member of jesus christ , and hath internall communion with him by the intire profession of christian faith joyned with conformity of life in righteousnesse , and holinesse , and fellowship of love , he is a member of the visible congregation or flock of christ , though no set member of a free distinct independant societie . and baptisme is the seale of our admission into the congregation or flock of christ ; but not evermore of our receiving into this or that particular societie as set members thereof . this latter is accidentall to baptisme , not essentiall . it may fall out to be so , but it is not ever necessarie ; nor is the sacrament to be denyed , nor can we say it is imperfectly administred where it cannot be attained . for the catholique church is one intire bodie , made up by the collection and agregation of all the faithfull unto the unity thereof ; from which union there ariseth unto every one of them such a relation to , dependance upon that church catholique as parts use to have in respect of the whole . and this holds true , not onely of sound beleevers in respect of internall fellowship with christ their head , and so one with another ; but of all men professing the true and intire doctrine of faith and salvation in respect of them that hold and professe the same faith of christ , and worship god according to his will ; whereupon it followeth that neither particular persons , nor particular guides , nor particular churches are to worke as severall divided bodies by themselves , but are to teach , and be taught ; and to do all other duties as parts conjoyned to the whole , and members of the same flock or societie in generall : and so beleevers professing the faith , and walking in holinesse , may and ought to be admitted to the seales as actuall members of the church of christ , and sheep of his pasture , though not set members of one congregationall church . . not to insist upon this here , that it hath and may fall out many times through ignorance , rashnesse , or pride , of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or church of christ , may be no actuall members of any distinct societie , and shall they for this be accounted men out of covenant , and their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers : but if they be in covenant , then are they holy in respect of the covenant , and their children holy as pertaining to the covenant , and have right to the sacrament of initiation . thus mr. rob. frameth the argument . the sacrament of baptisme is to be administred by christs appointment , and the apostles example onely to such as are ( externally , and so far as men can judge ) taught and made disciples , do receive the word gladly , do beleeve , and so professe , have received the holy ghost , and to their seed . and thus the church of god ever since the apostles dayes understood the covenant and promise , and their practise in receiving beleevers and their seed to the seales of the covenant was answerable , as might be shewed at large , if it was not a thing confessed . hereunto you answer . answer . vvhere the holy ghost is given and received ( which was the case of the centurion ) and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance ( which was the case of the rest ) there none may hinder them from being baptised , viz. by such as have power to baptise them . in the instances given baptisme was administred either by apostles or evangelists , not ordinary pastors : the persons baptised , if they were members of churches , had a right to baptisme in their state , and the apostles being officers of all churches might dispense the seales to them where ever they came , which yet will not warrant ordinary officers to do the same . nor is it improbable but that all these were in church-order , aret. on act. . . is of opinion , that the centurion had a constituted church in his house ; the eunuches coming to jerusalem to worship , argueth him to be a proselyte , and member of the jewish church not yet dissolved : and therefore upon the profession of the christian faith capable of church priviledges at that time . as for lydia and the gaylor it appeareth that in the beginning of the gospel there was a church at philippi which communicated with paul as concerning giving and receiving : as he expresly saith , before his departure was from macedonia , which departure was immediately upon the gaylors conversion . in which respect what should hinder that lydia and the gaylor should first be joyned to the church , and then to be baptised though it be not mentioned in that story ? as neither there is mention of a christian church , which paul mentioneth in his epistle to the philippians . at least it is probable that lydia was a member of the jewish church , because she is said to be one that worshipped god. but if any man think they were not members of any church yet baptised , though we see not how it will be proved , yet if it were so , the object doth no whit weaken the argument , which speaketh of the ordinary dispensation of the seales , and not of what was done in an extraordinary way . so that suppose that in the cases alledged , baptisme dispensed to some that were not in church-fellowship , yet the examples of the apostles and evangelists in so doing will not warrant ordinary pastors to do the like . the reason of the difference why apostles and evangelists might administer baptisme out of church-order , whereas pastors and teachers may not , is double . . because their calling gave them illimited power over all men , especially christians wheresoever they came . but we do not find that ordinarie pastors and teachers can do an act of power , but onely over their own church , which hath called them to watch over them in the lord. . because they were assisted with an immediate direction and guidance of the holy ghost , in the places of their administration in the cases alledged . but ordinary church-officers are to walke according to ordinary rules of the scripture in the dispensation of the seales , and not to expect immediate inspirations and extraordinary revelations for their helpe in such cases . this difference between apostles and ordinary church-officers must needs be acknowledged , or otherwise a man might from their example justifie baptisme in private houses . reply . this answer stands of many parts , wherein things doubtfull are affirmed , and that which more weakeneth the force of the consideration before alledged , and the answer it selfe , then of the reason whereunto it is applyed . for first , if where the holy ghost is given and received , and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance , there none may hinder them from being baptized , viz. by such as have power to baptize them : then either men that have received the holy ghost , and professe the faith , be members of the church , or baptisme is not a priviledge of the church , then it is not essentiall to the first institution of baptisme , that it should be dispenced to none but such as were entered into church-fellowship , or were set members of a congregationall assembly . then the apostles in dispensing the seales unto such , or commanding them to be dispenced , did walk according to the rules of scripture , and upon grounds common to them and us , viz. they admitted them unto the sacraments who had right and interest to them , according to the minde and pleasure of the institutor , not extraordinarily revealed , besides the common rules , or by speciall dispensation and prerogative excepted from the common rule , but made knowne in the institution it selfe . and then the difficultie remaining is onely this , whether a pastor or teacher hath authority from christ to dispence the seales of the covenant to one who hath right and title to them , and doth orderly desire that benefit because he is not as yet received as a set member of that particular societie which your practise in admitting of set members of other congregations unto the seales doth manifestly convince . for if both have equall interest unto the seales , the pastor upon lawfull suite and request hath equall authoritie to receive the one as well as the other . secondly , in the particular instances given , it is not probable that baptisme was evermore administred by apostles or evangelists ; for before the death of christ , the disciples baptized when they were properly neither apostles nor evangelists : after the death of christ ( not to insist upon conjectures whether any assisted the apostles in the baptizing of the first three thousand converted ) it is not certaine , whether peter baptized cornelius and his family , or commanded others then present with him to baptize them : the words may be read : et jussit eos baptizari in nomine domini . syr. & arab. praecepit eis ut baptizarentur . the interlineary glosse leaveth it doubtfull , associis suis vel a seipso . others are of opinion that peter did baptize them himselfe . it cannot be proved that philip and ananias were both evangelists , when the one baptized the samaritans and the eunuch , the other paul. paul himselfe baptized but a few as he testifieth of himselfe , and reason to convince that others converted by his preaching were baptized by evangelists , we know not any . and if philip , ananias , and others might baptize such as had right and title to the seales , being as yet no set members of any particular congregation : and a congregation destitute of their proper pastor , may desire another to baptize their infants , and dispence the sacrament of the supper to them in that their necessitie . and if the members of one congregation may lawfully communicate in another , then may the pastors of particular congregations upon occasion admit to the seales of the covenant such known and approved christians , as have right and title thereunto , and duely and orderly require the same ; for of all these the reason is like and perpetuall . thirdly , it is very improbable that the persons baptized , were in church-state or order . if they were members of the jewish church not yet dissolved , this is not to the purpose ; for men have not right to baptisme , because they were members of the jewish church , but because disciples and ( as you say ) joyned together in covenant , and have fellowship and calling of their minister , who is to dispence the seales unto them . and baptisme is the sacrament of initiation , not into the jewish but the christian churches . secondly , when you say , the seales in ordinary dispensation are the priviledges of the churches . there are no ministers but of particular churches . baptisme and the lords supper are to be administred onely to the members of the church . no societie may lawfully desire the seales , unlesse they have joyned in the choice and calling of their minister . beleevers not yet joyned in church-order are without . doe yee not in all these understand a christian societie , united in a church-way , &c. which cannot agree to the members of the jewish church , not yet dissolved . thirdly , the constitution of the church ( saith mr. robin . ) is the orderly collection and conjunction of the saints into and in the covenant of the new testament ; but the members of jewish churches not yet dissolved , were not in such constitution . if the eunuch and centurion were proselytes and members of the church of the jewes ; the samaritanes whom philip baptized were not so . and that any gentiles , or the gailor whom paul baptized in the apostles times , were set members of a christian assembly before baptized , is very strange . if there was a church at philippi , yet the gailor who was baptized and converted the same night , could not be a set member by solemne admission before baptisme . it is said the apostles baptized these persons in an extraordinary way . but in this practise of the apostles two things are to be considered . . the circumstance of the action . . the qualitie or substance of the act . in some circumstances the baptizing of some of these persons might be extraordinary , but the substance and qualitie of the action was grounded upon rules perpetuall and common to us with them . . that is done in an extraordinary way , which by peculiar priviledge of dispensation is made lawfull to some one or few men , which is unlawfull to all others , not having the same dispensation , but where the ground and reason of the action is common : we must not conceive the thing to be done in an extraordinary way by speciall dispensation . what was done by the apostles upon speciall revelation and immediate direction , besides the ordinary and common rule , in that wee are not to immitate or follow them , because we have not their warrant . but what they did upon reasons and grounds reaching unto us no lesse then unto them , in that we have the same libertie , allowance , or commandement that they did walk by . in one and the same action there may be and oft is something ordinary , something extraordinary or peculiar to speciall times or persons . so it was in the apostles administration of the seales : but in every place where they came by illimited power ( as you speake ) they did baptize disciples , if they did baptize ; this was proper to them , and could not be communicated to any others by them ; for there is no passage of scripture which teacheth this , that one officer may communicate his power to another , or doe that which particularly belongeth to his office by a deputie : but that they baptized beleevers professing their faith in the lord jesus , and repentance towards god , such as had gladly imbraced the word , and received the gifts of the holy ghost : this was common to them with all pastors and teachers , because they did it , not by power illimited or speciall dispensation , but upon this standing perpetuall reason , that the promise was made to them and to their seede , and to as many as the lord shall call , that they had received the holy ghost , and the kingdome of heaven belonged to them . and if the grounds and reasons of their practise be common reaching to us , no lesse then unto them , the practise it selfe was not extraordinary . to say nothing that this answer will not stand with the former ; for if the parties baptized were set members of particular societies , the apostles did not baptize them in an extraordinary way , they did it by the guidance and direction of the spirit , that is true , but not by guidance of dispensation , or prerogative , whereby that was made lawfull without such inspiration had been unlawfull . but they were infallibly guided to doe that which was according to the word of god , and might stand for our direction : that in case it be orderly desired a pastor hath authoritie in his owne congregation , to receive knowne and approved christians to the seales of the covenant , hath been proved before . if the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , who received the doctrine of salvation with gladnesse of heart , and were partakers of the holy ghost , then they dispenced the seales in an ordinary way , for such have title and interest to the seales by the institution and appointment of god. and every pastor by his office may and ought to dispence the seales unto such , within the bounds and limits of his calling : but the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , &c. . an argument followeth necessarily from particular example to a generall ; when one particular is proved by another particular , by force of the similitude common to the whole kinde , under which those particulars are contained : but the practise of the apostles in baptizing disciples and faithfull , by force of similitude common to the whole kinde , agreeth with the practise of ministers receiving to baptisme the seed of the faithfull , though as yet not set members of any particular societie , in some circumstances there may be difference when yet the reason is strong , if the difference be not in the very likenesse it selfe whereupon the reason is grounded . one circumstance that is materiall to the point may overthrow the likenesse pretended , and twenty different circumstances , if they be not to the point in hand make no dissimilitude . now in this matter wee speake of , no circumstance is or can be named why we should thinke it lawfull for the apostles to baptize disciples as yet being no set members of particular societies , and the same should be unlawfull in all cases for ordinary pastors in their particular congregations , though it be desired . . what is done by extraordinary dispensation , that is lawfull for them onely who have received such dispensation , and by them cannot be communicated to others . but the apostles baptized by others seldome by themselves , as hath been shewed . . we might urge the rule which a reverend elder among you , giveth in another matter , ( scil . ) those examples which are backed with some divine precept , or which are held forth in the first institution of an ordinance , being part of the institution , or which were the constant lawfull actions of holy men in scripture , not civill but sacred so binde us to imitation , as that not to conforme thereunto is sinne . for the assumption to this proposition , it is plaine and naturall : but the practise of the apostles in receiving the faithfull , disciples , &c. is backed with divine precept , held forth in the first institution , and was their constant lawfull practise , agreeable to the practise of all others who were imployed in that service ; ergo , &c. . in the first consideration , you prove the seales to be the priviledge of the church in ordinary dispensation , by this passage of scripture , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but if apostles baptize by extraordinary dispensation in your sense this testimony is insufficient for that purpose . reason . our second reason . in due order , the seales belong to them to whom the grant is given , viz. baptisme to the seed of the faithfull , and the lords supper to beleevers , able to try and examine themselves : but the grant is vouchsafed to the faithfull and their seed , forgivenesse of sinnes , sanctification , adoption , and what other good things are promised in the covenant of grace are the grant or good things sealed in the sacrament . but those are granted to beleevers according to the covenant ; and they are so linked together , that under one promised all are understood ; and if one be vouchsafed , none is denied . when god promiseth to circumcise the heart , the forgivenesse of sinnes is implyed . and when circumcision is said to be the seale of the righteousnesse of faith , the circumcision of the heart by spirituall regeneration is included . to whomsoever then the spirituall gift , or inward grace of the covenant is given and granted , to them the seales of that gift and grant doth belong in their due order . but the spirituall gift or grace which is the thing signified in the sacrament , is freely granted to true beleevers , who have received the doctrine of salvation , and walk in the wayes of truth and righteousnesse , therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . to this you answer . the scope of the apostle in the place , rom. . . is not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what is the proper and adequate subject of the sacrament ; but to prove by the example of abraham that a sinner is justified before god , not by works but by faith . thus as abraham the father of the faithfull was justified before god , so must his seed be ( that is , all beleevers whether jews or gentiles , circumcised or uncircumcised ) for therefore abraham received circumcision which belonged to the jews to confirm the righteousnesse which he had before , while he was uncircumcised , that he might be the father of both : but lest any one should think his circumcision was needlesse if he was justified by faith before circumcision ; he addeth that his circumcision was of no use as a seale to confirme to him his faith , and the righteousnesse which is by faith : yet as justification is not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , but the whole covenant also made with abraham and his seed was sealed thereby ; so abraham is to be considered in using circumcision not simply , or onely as a beleever without church relation , but as a confederate beleever , and so in the state and order of a visible church . though the apostle maketh mention of the righteousnesse of faith as sealed thereby , which was not that which served for his purpose . now that circumcision also sealed the church-covenant , may appear from gen. . . , . where you may find that abraham and his seed , though beleevers , were not circumcised till god called them into church-covenant ; and there is the same reason & use of baptisme to us which serveth to seal our justification as circumcision did , yet not that alone , but also the whole covenant with all the priviledges of it , as adoption , sanctification , and fellowship with christ in affections , and the salvation of our souls , and the resurrection of our bodies . and not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers : but church-covenant also which is peculiar to confederates . according to that of the apostle , by one spirit we are baptized into one body , cor. . . and by one bodie he meaneth that particular church of corinth whereunto he writeth and saith , now ye are the body of christ , and members in particular , ver . . and ergo church-membership is required as well to the orderly partaking of baptisme as it was of circumcision . nor do we find that circumcision was administred to all that were in the covenant of grace ( as all beleevers were ) but onely to such of them as were joyned to the people of the god of abraham . melchizedech was under the covenant of grace , so was lot , so was job and his foure friends ; yet we no where read that they were circumcised , nor do beleeve they were . so that if circumcision was administred to none but those that were joyned together in abrahams familie , and to the church of god in his seed , then may not baptisme in ordinarie course be administred to any beleevers now , unlesse they be joyned to the church of christ , for parum par est ratio . but the first is true , ergo , the second also . reply . the particulars in this answer hath been examined alreadie , and might have well been passed over , because it is tedious to repeat the same things againe and againe . two things are affirmed by you . . that the scope of the apostle , rom. . . was not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what was the proper and adequate subject of a sacrament . but this weakneth no part of the argument , for if the apostle do not fully define a sacrament , nor mention every particular benefit or prerogative sealed in the sacrament ; yet he sheweth sufficiently to whom the sacraments in due order do appertaine , even to the heires of salvation , to them that are justified by faith , and walk in the steps of our father abraham . and thus we argue from the text of the apostle . they that are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant , according to gods institution . but they that are justified by faith are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant according to gods institution . if justification be not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , this is nothing to the point in hand . for the gifts of the holy ghost is not the onely thing that is sealed in baptisme : but you confesse in your answer immediately going before , that they have right to baptisme who have received the holy ghost ; and the reason is the same of justification . besides if justification be not the onely thing that is sealed in the sacrament , it is one principall thing which doth inferre the rest . for the blessings of the covenant of grace in christ are inseparable ; where one is named , others are implyed : and where one is given , no one is absolutely wanting . christ is made of god wisedome , righteousnesse , sanctification , and redemption : whom god doth justifie , them he doth sanctifie , and them he will glorifie . . the second thing you affirme is , that not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers ; but church-covenant also which is peculiar to confederates is necessarie to the participation of the seales . this sense your words must beare , or else they reach not the point in hand : but this is that which should be proved substantially , and not barely affirmed ; and which ( as we conceive ) is contrary to the first institution of the sacrament , and the lawfull practise of john the baptist , our saviour christ , his apostles , and all others who are recorded lawfully to administer the seales . in gen. . we find the first institution of circumcision recorded , and that it was the seale of the covenant to abraham and his seed , to them that were borne in his house , or bought with his money : but we find no mention of any church covenant besides the covenant of promise which god made with abraham . there is no mention of any church-order into which abrahams family was now gathered more then formerly . god gave circumcision to abraham and his seed as a seale of the righteousnesse of faith ; but that this family was first gathered into church-order as you speak we cannot beleeve , because the scripture saith it not whether lot , job , melchizedech were circumcised or not , we will not dispute ; but if they received not the seale , we cannot think the reason to be because they were not in church-order as those times required , if any such thing had been required , we cannot think that either they were ignorant of it , or that they walked against their light : but according to the dispensing of those times we judge as they were visible beleevers , so they walked in that church-fellowship which god prescribed ; and therefore if circumcision had been the seale of such church-covenant as you conceive , it should have been given to them no lesse then to abrahams family . but of this sufficient is said before . as for baptisme it is the seal of the whole covenant , which the passages quoted prove it to be . whether it be the seale of our fellowship which christ in affliction , and the resurrection of our bodies , we leave it to your consideration : but that it should be a seal of a church-covenant which is peculiar to confederates , that to us is very strange . that it is a solemne admission into the church of christ , and that of necessitie it must be administred in a particular societie ( though in the passage to the corinthians the mysticall bodie of christ be understood ) will easily be granted . but that it is the seale of any other covenant but the covenant of grace we cannot digest . the sacraments are of god , and we must learne of god for what end and use they were ordained . but by the institution or baptisme recorded in scripture we have learned it belongeth to the faithfull , to disciples , to them that are called of god : and as for any other covenant necessarie to the right participation of the seales , there is deep silence of it in the institution , in the lawfull and approved practise of the first dispensers of these sacred mysteries . enough hath been said to this matter alreadie , but we will conclude it with the words of that reverend author whom we have cited many times before upon occasion . afterwards ( saith he ) john the baptist walked in the same steps , and by the same rule administred baptisme in the church whereof he was a member , required of all that came to his baptisme a profession of repentance , and amendment of life for remission of sinnes whereof baptisme was a seale , and preached christ to them . this order our lord jesus christ after his resurrection established to continue in the christian churches , giving a commission to his disciples to preach the gospel to the gentiles , and to gather all such as should beleeve through the world , as a testimonie to them , that the righteousnesse of faith did belong to them also , and not to the church of the jews onely . accordingly the apostles and servants of christ were carefull to observe this rule in their administring baptisme . thus peter when he saw those three thousand souls pricked in their hearts , preached unto them concerning repentance , remission of sin , christ , the promise , baptisme , faith , amendment of life , baptised those that gladly received his word , and testified the same by joyning together in the profession thereof . the same course philip took with the church that was gathered in samaria , where many were baptized , but none till they professed their beliefe of the gospel , and their receiving of the word of god. and therefore it is said expresly , when they beleeved philip preaching the things concerning the kingdome of god , and the name of jesus christ , they were baptised both men and women . when ananias was commanded to go and baptise paul , he objected against it at first , till the lord assured him that he was one to whom the seale of the covenant belonged , and then he went and did it . when peter and those that came with him saw that the holy ghost fell on cornelius , and those that were assembled at that time in his house , whilest he spake these words , to him give all the prophets witnesse , that through the name of jesus whosoever beleeveth on him shall receive remission of sinnes . peter demanded , can any man forbid water that these should not be baptised , which have received the holy ghost as well as we ? in this catalogue we see profession of faith and repentance required in them that were admitted to partake in the seals ; but there is not a word of church-covenant , either in the institution or administration of the seales before they were admitted to them . that christians are solemnly ingrafted into the body of christ , and into particular societies by the seales , is a truth acknowledged on all sides : but that ever it was deemed necessarie , that a christian should be a set member of a particular congregationall church before he were admitted to the seales , or that by divine institution any such thing is ordained as necessarie thereunto , that upon the grounds before mentioned we denie , and cannot account it lesse then an addition to the institution . for if the sacraments be seales of the covenant of grace , and baptisme by divine institution belong to disciples , faithfull , saints , who have gladly received the word of grace , are justified by faith , sanctified by the spirit , adopted to be the children of god by grace , and heires apparent to the kingdom of heaven ; then to debarre such from the seales , and their seed from baptisme , because they be not in church-covenant ( as you speake ) is an addition to the ordinance of grace , and many wayes injurious to the people of god. v. position . that the power of excommunication is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow must be done , though the pastors and governors and the rest of the assembly be of another minde , and that peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . answer . if the question had been , whether the power of excommunication lies in the body of the congregation , consisting of officers and members ; our answer should be affirmative , and according hereunto is also our practise , and wee hope your judgement and ours are not different herein : but seeing the question is , whether it is so in the body of the congregation , that what the major part doth allow that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and the rest of the assembly , doe dissent upon more substantiall reasons . our answer is negative , viz. that the power of excommunication is not sealed in the congregation , neither ought it to be so in any of the churches of the lord jesus , who ought not to carry matters by number of votes against god , as this position implyeth , but by strength of rule and reason according to god. the power of the apostles was not to doe things against the truth but for the truth , cor. . and not for destruction , but for edification , cor. . . and the same may be said concerning the power which god hath given to the church , and if any church among us have swerved from the rule ( which is more then we know ) we doe not allow them in such a practise , but should be ready as the lord should helpe to convince them of their sin therein . reply . this question is much mistaken , for the demand is not whether in the congregation matters should be carryed by number of votes against god , as you interpret the position , but whether the power of excommunication so lye in the body of the congregation as that sentence must proceed in externo foro , according to the vote and determination of the major part , and so whether power of admission of members doe so reside in the communitie , as that they must be refused whom the major part refuse , though the pastors and governors and part of the congregation be of another judgement , and he admitted whom the major part doth approve . and though the church hath received no power against god , but for god , yet in the execution of the power no doubt the members of that church may be of different judgements and affections , wherein the one side or other doth erre , and is deceived . now the question hereupon moved is , whether the power of the keyes be so given and committed to the society of the faithfull , as that in externall court that act or sentence must stand and be in force which the greater part shall determine amongst them which hold the power of the keyes to be given to the church . some a distinguish betwixt the power it self which they give to the church , and the execution and exercise of it , which they confine to the presbytery : b others give the power of the keyes with the exercise thereof to the whole body of the church , or if in the dispensation they attribute any thing to the officers , it is but as servants of the church , from whom they derive their authoritie . by church also some understand the communitie of the faithfull , together with their officers and guides . and here lyeth the stone at which they of the seperation stumble , and which we conceive to be your judgement and practise , wherein we required your plaine answer , with your reasons , but have received no satisfaction . you referre us to mr. parkers reasons to prove the power of the keyes to belong to the whole church , who are of farre different judgement from mr. parker in the point it selfe . and if your judgement and practise be according to that of the seperation ( which we feare ) you dissent from him , and we cannot but dissent from you upon these considerations . . no power agreeth to the multitude or communitie of the faithfull , but that which is given them of the lord by his positive law ; for the whole spirituall power for the gathering and government of his church is given to christ as mediator . and if the power of the keyes be derived from , and communicated by christ unto his church , of necessitie it must draw its originall from divine positive law , and can agree to none but as it is communicated . but the communicated power of the keyes with the execution thereof , christ hath not given immediately to the whole multitude , but to some persons and officers designed and appointed thereunto . peruse the severall passages of scripture , wherein power and authoritie of preaching the gospel , administring the sacraments , binding and loosing is given to the church : and it is apparent that distinct severall persons are spoken of , and not the whole communitie ; goe teach all nations , and baptize them , &c. whose sinnes yee remit , they are remitted , &c. feed my lambes , feed my sheepe , &c. were these things spoken to the whole communitie , or to speciall persons ? . if christ gave this power to the communitie , was it from the beginning of the church , or tooke it effect after the churches were planted and established by the apostles . not the first , for then the apostles themselves should derive their power from the communitie and societie of the faithfull , which they did not , but from christ immediately , both in respect of gifts and graces , their calling it selfe , and the designation of their persons . it is said the power of the keyes given to the apostles was given to the church , in tuitu ejusdem tanquam finis & totius . and it is true the apostles were given to the church , and the power they received was for the good of the whole ; but this is not enough . that power may be said to be received immediately by the church , as the first receptacle of it , and from it derived to others . but this power must be in the communitie as the first subject , from whom it commeth to the officers . as the power of seeing is not onely given in tuitu hominis , as the end of it , and the totum to whom it agreeth , but is in homine as the first subject from which it commeth to the eyes the apostles and other governors were given of christ for the church as for their end , and all their authoritie was given unto them for the church as for the whole : but the authoritie it selfe was immediately derived from christ , and is not in the church as the immediate subject , nor derived from the church , but from christ the king of the church . the authoritie of governors is given of christ for a gift to the church , but not for a gift absolute , that it may reside in the power of the whole church , to whom it is given , but for a conditionall gift communicated to the governors themselves for the good of the whole . it is one thing then to aske for what end or use the keyes are given , another to whom . to every one is given the declaration of the spirit for profit , i. e. for the good of the church . but was this gift given to the communitie of the faithfull first and immediately ? no ; by gift and possession it was given ●o some , but for use and profit it was publick . after the churches were established it tooke not effect ; for then it must be shewed where christ committed the power of god , first to the apostles , and after to the communitie of the faithfull . but that is no where to be found in holy scripture . the ministers and guides of the church were immediately of jesus christ , from whom immediately they derive their power and authoritie , by whom they are set over their charge , in whose name they must execute their office , whose stewards , legates and ambassadors they are , and unto whom they must give an account . yea , pastorship is the gift of christ no lesse then apostleship , and that the more because it is perpetuall in the church ; every pastor is not immediately called , but the office and order of pastors , the calling , authoritie and jurisdiction is immediately from christ , and not from the church : the steward is appointed of the master of the family alone , and hath all his authoritie and jurisdiction from him : every ambassador in the cause of his ambassage doth immediately depend upon him from whom he is sent . but if the function , order and authoritie of pastors and teachers , be immediately from christ , then it is not received from the church as the immediate receptacle . thus protestant divines dispute against papists . if bishops receive their power and authority of exercising immediately from christ , by mandate , mission , and commission from him , then they derive it not from the pope . and if presbyters receive their order jurisdiction and power of execution from christ by his mandate and commission , then they receive it not from the bishop . and by the same reason , if the power of the keyes be the immediate gift of christ to his ministers , then they derive not their power and authoritie from the people . it is usually objected that the church cannot convey what she never had , but the people may elect their pastor . whereunto the answer is direct and plaine . nothing can give that which it had not formally or virtually , unlesse it give it as an instrument ministring to one who hath it , but so it may give what it never had , nor is capable of . a steward may give all the offices in his masters house , as ministerially executing his masters pleasure . electors have not evermore authoritie over him whom they elect : but power and authoritie onely to apply that power to him whom they choose . the power and authoritie whereunto a minister is elected , is not in the people that elect him , but from christ the king and head of his church , who out of power doth conferre that office upon him . if we consider what men give , or give 〈◊〉 universally , it must be deemed that any men can make ministers , because they give not the office , gifts , or authoritie , which are from christ ●●ene . . if ecclesiasticall and spirituall power be in the multitude and community of the faithfull , the church doth not onely call , but make officers out of power and vertue received into her selfe , and then should the church have a true lordlike power in regard of her ministers . in the church the officers are the ministers of the people , whose service the people is to use for administration and executing their judgements , that is , pronouncing the judgement of the church ( and of god first ) against the obstinate . rob. against ber. p. . the officers in the church are both christs and the peoples servants and ministers . id. p. . for as he that will derive authority to the church maketh himselfe lord of the church : so if the church derive authoritie to the ministers of christ , she maketh herself lady and mistris over them in the exercise of that authoritie over them . for all men know it is the property of the lord and master to impart authoritie . did the church give power and authoritie to the pastors and teachers , she might make the sacraments and preaching which one doth in order no sacraments , no preaching . for it is the order instituted of god that gives being and efficacie to these ordinances . and if the power of ruling , feeding , and dispensing the holy things of god , do reside in the faithfull , the word and sacraments in respect of dispensation and efficacie shall depend upon the order and institution of the societie . if the power of the keyes be derived from the community of the faithfull , then are officers immediately and formally servants to the church , and must do every thing in the name of the church , rule , feed , bind , loose , remit and retaine sinnes , preach and administer the sacraments , then they must performe their office according to the direction of the church more or lesse , seldome or frequent , remisse or diligent . for from whom are they to receive direction how to carry themselves in their office but from him or them from whom they receive their office , whose works they do , and from whom they expect their reward ? if their power and office be of god immediately , they must do the duties of their place according to his designement , and to be accountable unto god : but if their power and function be from the church , the church must give account unto god , and the officers unto the church whom she doth take to be her helpers . if it be said that god will have the church to chuse officers to execute the power committed unto her . the answer is , either god will have her elect officers of his designement to do his work according to that power which he shall give them , and by his direction , and then they are gods servants , and not the churches , and receive their charge and function immediately from god , and not from the people : or he leaveth it to the arbitriment of the church , to chuse according to their pleasure such as must receive charge and authoritie from her . and then they must execute their office in her name so as shall seeme good unto the church , and neither longer nor otherwise . for if the ministers of the church be subject to god and christ by the intervention of the people onely , they have it from them , and not from god : but they preach or administer the sacraments , rule , or feed , and if they depend immediately upon the faithfull , viz. two or three gathered together in covenant , they must draw what in order they are to preach unto them in the name of the lord ; for from him must the ambassadour learne his arrand from whom he receiveth his commission . we forbeare to presse the a confessions and reasons of such as maintaine this opinion , that the officers of christ be both of and for the people , and that in relation as the officers are called servants , the church may be called lord. . moreover if the power of the keyes be given first and immediately to the community of the faithfull , what reason can be alledged why in defect of officers the church might not rule , governe , feed , bind , loose , preach and administer the sacraments , or if any faile in any office , why she might not supply that want by her power . for the power of the keyes doth containe , both authority and exercise , power being given to this end , that it might be exercised as it is vouchsafed . but the church when she is destitute of officers , cannot exercise those acts of rule , nor by her power supply the want of any officer . onely she hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . for these reasons ( not to insist on any more ) we judge the multitude or community of the faithfull not to be the immediate receptacle of ecclesiasticall authoritie , and so the power of excommunication not to belong to them . if consent of the churches of god be asked in this point ( to omit others ) the churches of scotland speake fully and expresly for us , in the second book of disci . cap. . the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions in the congregation of them that professe the truth , hath a certain power granted by god according to which , it useth a proper jurisdiction and government exercised to the comfort of the whole flocke . power is an ecclesiasticall authority granted by god the father through the mediator jesus christ unto his kirke , gathered , and having its ground in the word of god , and to be put in execution by them unto whom the spirituall government of the church by lawfull calling is committed . the policie of the kirke flowing from this power is an order or spirituall forme of government which is exercised by the members appointed thereto by the word of god , and therefore is given immediately to the office-bearers by whom it is exercised to the weale of the whole body . vt universam scripturam evolvat d. erastus , nunquam tamen inventurum verba ligandi , & solvendi aliis quam publico ministerio fungentibus , & quidem metaphoricè , divine videlicet & spiritualis potestatis respectu , tribui . sunt enim judi●ialia haec verba . &c. beza de presb ▪ p . see helvet . conf . ca. . sect. nunc ergo , &c. belgic . confess . art . . argentinens . conf . art . . bohem. confes . art . . vi. position . that none are to be admitted as members but they must promise not to depart or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . answer . our answer hereto is briefly this . we judge it expedient and most according to rule , that such brethren as are in covenant with the church , and ours as fellow-members , and have committed their soules to our charge as ministers , should not forsake our fellowship , nor obruptly breake away from us when and whither they please ; but first approve themselves therein to their brethrens consciences , and take their counsell in so weightie a matter . for which we propound to consider these two reasons following . the former is drawne from the nature of the church-covenant , which consists in these foure particulars . . every member at his admission doth openly professe , and solemnly promise , that by christs helpe assisting , he will not onely in generall give up himselfe ( as to the lord to be guided by him , so ) to the church according to god to be directed by it , which is no more then the members of the church of macedonia , did in a parallel case , cor. . . but also in particular , that he will performe all duties of brotherly love and faithfulnesse to all the members of the body , as of diligent watchfulnesse over all his brethren , thereby to prevent sin , so of faithfull admonition after their falls to regaine them to the lord , from their sinne , the former being injoyned , hebr. . . and the want thereof deeply condemned in cain , that would not acknowledge that duty of being his brothers keeper , gen. . . the latter given in charge to the church-members of israel by the hand of moses , levit. . . and so by christ himself , matth. and by paul also to the galat. c. . , . secondly , the ingagements are not made onely by the members admitted into the church , but by the church back again to the member . so that thereby the whole church in generall , and every member thereof in particular , stand as well in conscience bound to performe all duties of love and watchfulnesse to him , as he doth to them ; and this we do according to the golden rule of love and equitie injoyned by our saviour , matth. . . fearing that contrary practise of scribes and pharisees so much condemned by christ , of laying greater burthens upon others , then we our selves are willing to undergo . matth. . . . these promises thus lawfully and mutually made , that member , as also the whole church , are bound not onely every one for himselfe , actively to performe them , but passively also to suffer his brethren to do those offices upon and towards himself : if he neglect the former , he shall falsifie his covenant so solemnly before god , angels , and men made , and so not onely breake promise to his brother , contrary to psal . . . but also in some sort commit the sinne of ananias and saphira in lying against the holy ghost , condemned and punished severely by gods own hand , act. . . . . if he faile in the latter , he shall not onely be guiltie of the same sinne of breach of covenant with god and man as in the former ; but shall also be guilty of this folly of despising counsell so much condemned , prov. . . and . . and shall also proclaime this his folly and pride by shewing to all the church that he is wise in his own eyes , and leanes to his own wisedome both reproved , prov. . . and . . seeing need of no further light to be held forth by his brethren , then what he apprehends himselfe , which is one of the greatest properties of folly . . from all these things premised , it appears that we can do no lesse ( and yet we do no more ) then require a member before he depart according to our covenant thus lawfully , deliberately , and mutually made , to expresse to his brethren his desire of departing , and the place and societie to which he tends , whether to a godly church where he may be edified ; or to some corrupt assembly where he may be destroyed . and . his grounds and reasons which move him so to do , which if they hold good being scanned by the word , he may be not onely confirmed in his way by the consent and advise of many , but counselled also how to manage his departure for his best comfort . and so after all , solemnly with the whole churches prayers , and blessings in the name of christ dismissed : but if his grounds either be none at all , or weake and sinfull , and that his desire of departing savours of self-will , inordinate love of gaine , rash precipitancie , or a spirit of schisme , more strongly then of sound reason , then what can we do lesse without breach of covenant , then in love and tendernesse shew him his weaknesse , disswade him from his purpose , and refuse to consent . yet if after all this we see his spirit stedfastly and stiffely bent for a departure , then though we dare not act against our light by consenting or counselling , yet if his sinne be not apparent , and danger eminent , we use rather ( through indulgence in cases of like nature ) to suspend our vote against him , as not willing against his will to detain him , abhorring to make our churches places of restraint and imprisonment . but if any should object that this argument holds firme where this church-covenant is allowed to be lawfull , but with some it is questioned , and with them it avails not . ans . some indeed have questioned the necessitie of our church-covenant , but none ( we hope ) of these our reverend brethren that we write unto do question the lawfulnesse of such a covenant being nothing else for the matter of it , but a promise of doing such christian duties as the gospel of christ requires of all saints in church estate ; for we doe not herein promise to performe any new dutie to our brethren which was not before commanded us of the lord , but onely revive and renew our purposes afresh of performing such duties unto that particular body into which we are then incorporated as were before injoyned in the word , as to love each other , and to watch over each other out of love for their good , to be ready to give counsell to , and to take counsell from each other , to prevent sinne in them , or to gaine them from sinne . all which are plentifully and frequently held forth in the scriptures ; for the defect of which care and watchfulnesse , all the body shall be wrapt in the same guilt & punishment with the member that commits the sinne , as the whole church of israel was in achans sinne and punishment . secondly , it s a thing very reasonable , and a knowne fundamentall rule in all societies , that he that is incorporate thereto , and so participates of the priviledges thereof , should ingage himselfe to conforme to all such lawfull rites and orders as are expedient for the well-being of that societie , the contrary whereto will be a thing injurious in him to offer , and confusion to themselves to accept . the second ground is drawne from the necessitie that may fall upon the body if every particular member should depart at his owne pleasure . for as every societie , so much more a church of saints , both from principles of nature and christianitie also , not onely lawfully may , but in dutie are bound to endeavour the preservation of it selfe , and ergo timely to foresee and wisely to prevent all such things as would bring destruction to it selfe . now if any member might , when , whither , and wherefore he please without consent of the church depart away from it , this may by unavoydable consequence dissipate the whole ; for if one man may so depart , why may not another also , though never so usefull in that body , and whose absence might much shake the well-being of it : and if one why not two , six , ten , twentie as well ? for where will yee stop seeing any may plead the same libertie , and if members may so doe why not the pastor and teacher also ? seeing they are tyed to him by the same relation that he is to them , and so the principalls falling , the whole building must downe : and if this may be so in one church , why not in all , and so christ should have no setled church on earth . reply . it is one thing abruptly to breake away when and whither they please , and forsake fellowship , another thing not to depart or remove habitation , unlesse the congregation will give leave . also it is one thing mutually to compound and agree not to depart from each other without consent and approbation , another to require a promise of all that be admitted into societie , that they shall not depart without the churches allowance . if such a promise be required of all members to be admitted , we cannot discerne upon what grounds your practise is warranted . first , you exclude all such as be not set members from the sacrament of the supper , and their children from baptisme , and yet hinder them from entrance into church societie , because they cannot promise continuance in the place where they are resident for the present . here we desire to be satisfied from the word of god by what you require it . did the apostles ever stipulate with such as desired to be baptized , that they must abide in particular societie , and not remove thence without approbation from the church ? or did they deny the seales unto them , because they could not make any such promise ? was it ever heard of in the church of god from the beginning thereof unto this day , that any such thing was propounded unto , or required of , members to be admitted into church-fellowship ? that church covenant which is necessary was not in use in the apostles times , but the covenant they entred into bound no man to this condition for ought we reade . they did not prescribe it , no church ever yet covenanted it as necessary to the preservation of the body . secondly , it pertaines not to the whole congregation to take notice of , be acquainted with , or judge of the cause of every particular members removall . may not a servant remove from his master to another congregation ? or the father bestow his sonne or daughter in marriage to one of another congregation , but the whole church must be called to counsell in this matter ? if the assembly once grow to be populous , of necessitie they must be negligent in , or weary of such an heavy taske ; and for the present , for every one to challenge so much authoritie over other is usurpation . let it be shewed that ever by divine right this power was committed to the church , and then we will confesse it to be expedient and necessary . but till then we thinke the church is over ridged in exacting such a condition of the members , and the members themselves goe beyond their measure as busi-bodies in other mens matters , and things whereof they are not well able to judge many times , if they arrogate such power unto themselves wee allow not rashnesse , or precipitancy , pride or self-conceitednesse , we know it is meete that weightie matters should be mannaged by councell , but it is not necessary to bring every particular thing to the whole church . in the multitude of councellors there is peace , but over many councellors oft causeth distraction , and different apprehensions breed delayes . the nature of your church-covenant , as you describe it , inferreth not a necessitie of bringing every such businesse unto the church ; for you binde your selves mutually to watch over one another , and in love to admonish one another in the lord , to prevent sinne and to encourage in well-doing , as it concerneth every man within the limits of his place and calling . but this essentially tyeth not any man to a perpetuall residence in one place , for then even occasionall absence should be a breach of covenant , unlesse it be by consent and approbation of the church . you say in your covenant you promise to performe no new dutie to your brethren which was not before commanded of the lord , but onely revive and renew your purposes afresh of performing such duties to that particular body into which you are then to be incorporated , as were before injoyned in the word . but in the word of truth , it is not commanded either expresly or by consequent , that no member of a congregation should remove , or occasionally be absent from the place of his habitation , before he have acquainted the church whither he goeth , and upon what occasions , and whether the place be dangerous , where he is likely to be infected ; or safe , where he may be edified . these things are matters of weight and to be undertaken with advice , but the knowledge thereof belongeth not to every particular member of the societie . and the church shall burden her selfe above measure if she take upon her to intermeddle in all such occasions . neither is it safe to commit the determination of such matters ever to the vote of the multitude , or weight of reasons , as they shall apprehend the matter . and if such businesse must be determined on the lords day , and to goe before the administration of the word , sacraments , and almes , least the holy things be polluted by notorious obstinate offenders , wee feare the time appointed for the exercise of religion shall be prophaned with unseasonable disputes . instances might be alledged , if it were a matter to be insisted upon . as for the covenant it selfe which you mutually enter into , if therein you exact nothing but what god requires both for tryall and stipulation , far be it that we should disallow it , but if yee constraine men to meddle with things that belong not to them , and winde them up higher then god would , and straine every thing to the pitch that you seeme here to doe in this branch a godly and sober minde may well pause before he make such promise . all members of the church are not equally necessary to the preservatiō of the whole body ; & if to the removall of some , it were expedient to have the cōsent , not only of the whole society , but of neighbouring societies , ministers especially , it is very much to draw this to the removall or abode of every particular member . and if any man shall not intermeddle with every businesse of this kinde , as questioning whether it doth belong to him or no , or not aske the advice of the whole societie , as knowing the most to be unfit to counsell in such a case , doth he break his covenant therein , and so commit a sinne in a sort like the sinne of ananias and saphira ? judge your selves if in other cases you would not censure this to be an high incroachment upon christian libertie , and a strict binding of mens consciences by humane constitutions . may you not expect to heare from your own grounds that herein you have devised an expedient , or necessary rite or custome to preserve the unitie , and prevent the dissolution of the body , which never came into the minde of the lord jesus , the saviour of the church , and that in so doing ( if your exposition will hold good ) you breake the second commandement . rites and customes expedient to prevent confusion for the time , let them be observed as customes expedient , and what god requires in the examination or admission of members , let that take place according to the presidents given in the scriptures , and the constant practise of the universall church in the purest times . but to presse customes onely expedient for the time , as standing rules necessary at all times , and for all persons , to put that authoritie into the hands of men which god never put upon them , to oblige men to intermeddle further in the affaires of men , then the word doth warrant , to binde the conscience , and that under so heavy a penalty as the sinne of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound it , and to debarre known and approved christians from the seales of the covenant , because they cannot promise as setled members to abide and stay in the societie , unlesse they shall obtaine leave of the congregation to depart , and to charge them in the meane season to be men , who against light refuse subjection to the gospel ; this is that which we cannot approve , which yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement , and desire to be resolved of in your practise . and here we intreat leave to put you in minde of that which you have considered already , schil . that the church and every member thereof hath entred into covenant , either expresly or implicitely to take god for their god , and to keepe the words of the covenant and doe them , to seeke the lord with all their hearts , and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse : but we never finde that they were called to give account of the worke of grace wrought in their soules , or that the whole congregation were appointed to be judge thereof . you stand all of you this day ( saith moses ) before the lord your god , &c. that thou shouldst enter into covenant with the lord thy god. all the people that were borne in the wildernesse joshua circumcised , but it is incredible to thinke that among that great multitude , there was not one who did not give good testimony of the worke of grace in his soule : we reade often times that israel after some grievous fall and revolt , renewed their covenant , to walke with god , to serve him onely , and to obey his voyce , as in the dayes of joshua , the judges , david , samuel : also joash , josiah , and nehemiah , &c. but no particular enquiry was made , what worke of grace god had wrought in the hearts of every singular person . but the confession and profession of obedience was taken . when john baptist began to preach the gospel , and gather a new people for christ , he admitted none to baptisme but upon confession of their sinnes ; but we reade of no question that he put forth unto them to discover the worke of grace in their soules , or repelled any that voluntarily submitted themselves upon that pretence . it appeareth many wayes that when the apostles planted churches , they made a covenant between god and the people whom they received . but they received men upon the profession of faith , and promise of amendment of life , without strict inquirie what sound work of grace was wrought in the soul . in after ages , strangers from the covenant were first instructed in the faith , and then baptised upon the profession of faith , and promise to walk according to the covenant of grace . now the profession at first required of all that were received to baptisme was that they beleeved in the father , sonne , and holy ghost . this was the confession of the eunuch when he was baptised , i beleeve that jesus christ is the sonne of god. the creed is honoured of the ancients with glorious titles , as the rule of faith , the summe of faith , the body of faith , the perswasions of faith : but by the creed they understand that rule of faith , and law of faith , and institution of christ which was then given when he was about to ascend into heaven , and commanded his disciples , saying , go teach all nations , &c. it is true , that in after times as occasion required some other articles were added as explanations of the former , to meet with the heresies of the times which began to trouble the church . but for substance of matter in things to be beleeved , the church never required other acknowledgement of them that were to be received into the congregation of christs flock , and admitted into her communion . and for things to be done , or the practicall part , she requireth of them that were to be received to baptisme an abrenuntiation of the devill , the world , and the flesh , with all their sinfull works and lusts . the first principles then of the doctrine of christ being received , and the foresaid profession being made , the apostles , and the church following the example of the apostles , never denied baptisme unto such as sought or desired it . if this be the covenant that members admitted into church-fellowship do enter into , and this be all you require of them whom you receive , you have the practise of the apostles , and the whole church in after ages for your president . but if you proceed further then thus , and put men to declare what worke of grace god hath wrought in their soul , in this or that way , which perhaps is not determined by the word of grace , at least not agreed upon among your selves , we beseech you consider by what authority you do it , and upon what grounds you stand . but we will enter no further upon this matter , because it comes not within the compasse of these positions , and to attribute so much to private letters , as to make them the ground of another dispute we may not . vii . position . that a minister is so a minister of a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him , he ceaseth to be a minister . answer . our answer to this consists in two branches . . in case a minister be set aside by the church meerly through his own default . . by the churches default without any desert of his . in the former case it is evident he ceaseth to be a minister to them any longer , as appears in foure conclusions . . it is cleare from the word , that a pastor or teacher in these dayes hath no apostolicall power over all churches , but onely limited to that one church where god hath set him . paul gives not the elders at ephesus a generall commission to go teach all churches , but to go feed that one flock over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . act. . . so peter gives direction to elders to feed that flock of god onely which was among them , and take the over-sight thereof . pet. . . . it is as cleare that all this power of feeding which the minister hath in that church is nextly derived to him from christ by the church , who hath solemnly called him to the work , and promised to obey him therein : for if he have it elsewhere , it must be either from christ immediately , or from some other men deputed by christ to conferre it on him , or he must take it up of himselfe . not the first , for that was proper to the apostles or apostolicall men , therefore paul proving his apostleship , saith he was called not of men , nor by men , but by jesus christ himself . gal. . . not the second , for we never read in gods word that any ordinary officers , or other besides the church , that had any commission given them from christ to call ministers unto churches . not the third , for no man taketh this honour , viz. of a priest under the law , or of a minister under the gospel , but he that is called of god , hebr. . . therefore it must needs be from christ by the church . . as the church in the name of christ gave this power to a minister to be what he is , and do what he doth amongst them : when such a minister shall make and manifest himself apparently , unworthy , and unfit to discharge the place , which they thus called him unto , so that they may discerne that christ the head of the church hath refused him , from being a minister unto him . they may then upon as good grounds depose him from it , as they called him to it . . when a church hath thus in christs name put forth this power of shutting , as before it did of opening to a minister , then he must cease to be a minister unto them any more , for we know no such indelible character imprinted upon a minister , that the ministery ceasing , the minister ceaseth also . . in case the church shall without cause , or sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , and whom they so solemnly called , and promised before the lord to submit unto , and so abuse their power given them by christ ; it is deubtlesse a very great wrong unto the minister , and sinne against christ himselfe before whom it was done ; and not onely christ himself will take it ill at their hands , for such contempt done to him in his ministers according to christs speech , luke . . he that rejecteth you , rejecteth me . and gods speech , sam. . . they have not cast off thee but me . but even other churches also may admonish them . and if they prove obstinate therein , withdraw the right hand of fellowship from them ; and concerning the minister himself thus deposed , seeing it is done not by christ , but by the church without christ , yea against the mind of christ , we conceive though he be by them deprived of the execution of his ministery among them , yet untill he accepts of a call to another people , he doth yet still remain a minister of christ , in whose account ( notwithstanding such deposition ) he hath true right of administration among that people . reply . the question is of ministers unjustly forsaken , or driven from the church or congregation : and your answer is for the most part of ministers set aside or deprived through their own default . we never purposed to speak one word for any unworthy minister whom christ hath put out of office , and therefore your labour to prove that such justly rejected by the church are no longer ministers might well have been saved . but setting them aside , we will in few words examine your conclusions upon which you bind the certainty of that sentence you passe against them . first , it is certain and clear from the word , that a pastor or teacher neither in these dayes hath , nor in any other age of the church , ought to have apostolicall power over all churches . the apostles had onely power to serve the church with the personall service of their apostleship . but pastorall power of ordinarie ministers or teachers they never had : and if the apostles had not the power of ordinarie ministers , much lesse can pastors receive the power of apostles , for christ gave both the one and the other order . but as the apostles were not pastors of that church to which they preached , and among whom they continued for some space ; no more do pastors become apostles if they preach the word , or dispence the sacraments to another flock or people beside their own , whereof they have the speciall oversight . but of this matter we have spoken before , and of the texts of scripture here alledged , therefore we will not repeat what hath been said alreadie : onely it seemeth somewhat strange , that you should cited those texts of scripture , as if the apostle had said , feed one flock , or feed that flock of god onely . for we find the word ( one ) or ( onely ) neither in the text expresly , nor in the sense for which it is here alledged , viz. as if he might not perform any ministeriall act in another congregation upon any occasion whatsoever . secondly , the power of feeding which the minister hath is neither confined to one societie onely , nor nextly derived to him from christ by the church . the office and authoritie of a pastor is immediately from christ . the deputation of the person which christ hath designed is from the church ministerially , but neither virtually nor formally . the consent of the people is requisite in the election of pastors and teachers we grant , the direction of the elders going before or along with them ; but the authoritie , office , and gift of a pastor is not from the people or elders , but from christ alone . when an apostle was to be chosen in the place of judas , act. . , . no one had the handling of that businesse , but peter declared unto the brethren present , what an one ought to be taken , and they present two , whereof one was elected by lot . in this example somethings are extraordinarie , for one onely was to be chosen , and that immediately by god himselfe : and somethings ordinarie for our imitation . for if peter would do nothing without consent of the disciples , then may not ordinarie elections be passed without consent and approbation of the church , but it is not a popular election , not governed by the fore-direction of elders , which is concluded from this passage of scripture : but a church election by the free consent , and judgement of the faithfull with the fore-leading of the presbyterie . when deacons were to be chosen , act. . . . in the church of jerusalem , it was done by the consent of the church . the mutinie of the hellenists against the hebrews occasioned that election , but was no cause why it was made by free consent . the apostles shew what persons must be chosen , and who ever thought the church was left at libertie to chuse as she please without direction . but in this election the people did first chuse , the apostles onely directing whom the people ought to make choice of : when most commonly the apostles instructed the people , and went before them in the election , and they consented . act. . . the apostles by consent chose elders , and so in every matter of great importance belonging directly to the whole bodie of the church , whether severally in one congregation , or joyntly in many , the consent of the faithfull by observation of the apostles was required . act. . . and . . and . . . cor. . . but in the primitive times after the apostles , one church might elect and chuse a pastor for another . as ignatius exhorts the phyladelphians , that they would elect a pastor for the church of antioch . and so when the east church was infected with arrianisme , basil , epist . . . . though it a fit meanes to remove the heresie , if the bishops of italie being sent thither did condemne the heresie , and he imploreth the aid of the bishops of italy , france , and all the east . cyprian saith , all bishops sunt mutuae concordiae glutine copulati : that if any hold heresie the rest should help . it would be too long to reckon up examples which in this case might be produced . if here it be questioned whether your election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a minister : we answer . . a thing is essentiall two wayes . first , as absolutely necessarie , so that the thing can have no existence without it . secondly , as necessarie to the integritie of the thing , so that it is maimed without it . againe , either the people be few in number , and simple apt to be led aside , unable to judge of the sufficiencie of their minister , or they be more in number , increased in wisdome , sound in faith , and able to discern betwixt things that differ . in the first sense the election of the people is not necessary or essentiall ; but in the second we cannot say he is no minister that is not chosen by the people , but his calling in that respect is maimed . if the people be few and simple , apt to be deceived , they stand in more need of guidance and direction , both from their own elders , and other churches . if the people be many in number , full of wisdome and understanding , their libertie to choose is the greater ; and it is the greater wrong to be deprived of it . the practise of the apostles and the primitive churches for many ages will confirme this ; for sometimes men were propounded to the church to be chosen : sometimes the choice was wholly left to them : and was not that for our direction , that more libertie is given where the danger is lesse , and more restraint and caution used where the danger is more apparent , that if they be left to themselves , either an ill or unfit choice will be made ? in reason this is evident , for the childs consent is required in marriage , but the more able he is to choose for himselfe , the more libertie may parents grant , the lesse able , the more watchfull must they be ; and so in this businesse . brotherly societie requires that we mutually exhort , admonish , reprove and comfort each other as occasion requires , and as need requires . it is a dutie of neighbour-churches to lend their helpe to their brethren in the choice and election of their minister . when the scripture willeth that one should admonish another , it is not onely a command to every singular man towards his fellow , but also to any whole company too : another societie bellarmine asketh , quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi elegere potest ? junius answereth ; certe charitatis jure & communione sanctorum . and paul when he teacheth that all the faithfull are members of one mysticall body of christ , who ought to have a mutuall care one of another , laid the foundation of this policie . it is a blemish in the calling of a minister , if either the people be not fit to choose , or being fit they be shut forth from the choice , but this maime doth not make a nullicie in his calling ; for in every true church where the word is preached and received , and the sacraments for substance rightly administred , there is a true and lawfull ministery , and a true and lawfull calling of that ministery , though in some things defective . in the church of god all sound and saving truth is to be found , for it is the pillar and ground of truth , and where the true profession of all saving truth , with the right use of the sacraments for substance is to be found , there is the church , which ordinarily cannot be had , maintained and continued without a lawfull ministery , nor that without a calling . the saving truth of god & a lawfull ministery , are both essentiall to a true church . something of this remaines in every compleat societie that hath any thing of the church ; and for essence and substance they are true in every true , lawfull , compleat societie . the profession of the truth may be true and sound in all necessary and fundamentall points , though mixed with diverse errors , and the ministery for truth and substance lawfull , though many wayes deficient . in the true church there is a true ministery , but the true church hath continued there by the blessing of god , where the election of ministers hath been given away by the people , or taken from them . in the primitive church , when the people had a voyce in the choice of their pastor , oftentimes there were factions in the church , the people stood against their guides and challenged the whole power of election to themselves . sometimes they were divided among themselves . sometimes they gave away their power , at least in part , and sometimes ministers were set over them without their councell and advice , whose ministery notwithstanding was not reputed voyde and of none effect . if it be objected that many things were amisse in those primitive elections , what will follow thence , but that the ministery may be lawfull and good , where there be many wants in the manner of calling . if this be not granted , what shall be done when the people and their elders be divided in the choice of a fit officer . if the people prevaile against their elders , he whom they choose is no minister to them , because not chosen by their suffrages : if the elders against the people , he whom they approve is no minister unto them , because not chosen by their suffrage ; and so if there be dissention they must seperate from , or excommunicate one another , because he is no minister to the one whom the other approve . the orthodox pastors did professe , so that the donatists would returne to the true and apostolicall doctrine , they would not disallow their bishops , that they might understand that catholiques did not detest christian consecration ( as augustine speakes ) by humane error . the high priesthood was bought and sold for money , and sometimes made annuall , and every yeare new high priests created , sicut isti praefecti quos singulis annis promutant reges , as sol : jarchi saith . that as every man would lay out more or lesse money , he should get or lose the priesthood , which may be seene in the examples of jason or menelaus . neverthelesse , so long as the jewes continued the true church of god , the priesthood was true also . the reformed churches who have seperated from the abhominations of rome , professe the first reformers among them received some ordinary calling in the romane synagogue . they that thinke the basest of rome , will acknowledge baptisme unduely administred by priests or jesuites , to be for substance the holy sacrament of christ . and if the baptisme of god may be derived from the ministery , it is no absurditie to thinke that the first seekers of reformation derived authoritie from christ to preach the word and administer the sacraments by them , as stewards used of god to set them in that office : for the seekers of reformation derived their authoritie from god , and that which is instituted by christ , is not made voyde by the corruptions of men . the third and fourth consideration we will passe over , because from what hath been spoken , it is easie to understand in what sense they may be admitted , and in what denyed , and we have no desire to trouble you with the examination of that which falleth not into question . as for the second branch of your answer , that in case the church shall without cause , or without sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , yet he still remaines a minister of christ ( untill he accepts of a call from another people ) in whose account , notwithstanding such depositions , he hath true right of administring among that people . we know not well your meaning ; if this be your minde that a minister lawfully called and set over one congregation , is to be esteemed a minister in the usuall church , as the particular church hath unitie with , and is part of the universall or catholique : and as a partie baptized is not baptized into that particular congregation onely , but into all churches ; and that the ministery is one , cujus à singulis in soliaum pars tenetur , as cyprian speakes ; and therefore though the minister be unjustly cast off by one congregation , yet he is not to be esteemed as no minister , we freely consent . but if your meaning be that he is onely by right a minister of that particular congregation , because unjustly deposed , as formerly in the execution of his office he was a minister to them onely , and to none other societie whatsoever , or in what respect soever ; your opinion is contrary to the judgement and practise of the universall church , and tendeth to destroy the unitie of the church , and that communion which the churches of god may and ought to have one with another ; for if he be not a minister in other churches , then are not the churches of god one , nor the ministers one , nor the flocke which they feed one , nor the communion one which they have each with other . and if the pastor derive all his authoritie to feede from the church , when the church hath set him aside , what right hath he to administer among that people . if they erre in their deposition , it is true they sinne against christ . but as they give right to an unworthy man to administer among them , if they call him unjustly , so they take right from the worthy if wrongfully they depose him . the minister is for his ministery the office for the execution , and so the pastor and the flocke are relatives : and therefore if their election gave him authoritie among them to feed , their casting him off hath stripped him of the same power which formerly they gave him . and his ministery ceasing , he should cease to be their minister , if he stood as minister onely to that congregation in every respect . whit. de pont . q. . sec. . pa. . certe lex naturae & ratio clamitat cujus est instituere ejus est destruere , sive destituere , ad quem institutio pertinet ad eundem destitutionem , seu destructionem pertinere . rob. aga . b. p. . if the congregation may chuse and elect their governours , then they may refuse and reprobate them . viii . position . that one minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . answer . if you take ministeriall act improperly as sometimes it is taken by some , onely when the minister of one church doth exercise his gifts of praying and preaching in another church , being by themselves so desired . then we answer , in this sense a minister of one church may do a ministeriall act in another , which he doth not perform by vertue of any calling , but onely by his gifts ; and thus upon any occasion we mutually perform those acts one in anothers churches : but if you meane by ministeriall act , such an act of authoritie and power in dispensing of gods ordinance as a minister doth perform to the church , whereunto he is called to be a minister ; then we deny that he can so perform any ministeriall act to any other church but his own , because his office extends no further then his call . for that solemne charge , act. . . is not to feed all flocks , but that one flock onely , over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . if the question were propounded to any minister so exercising in an others church , which was once to our saviour by the chief priests and elders : by what power doest thou these things , and who gave thee this authoritie ? let that minister whosoever he be , study how to make an answer . reply . the preaching of the word , publick prayer in the congregation met together solemnly to worship god , and the administration of the sacraments , are acts properly ministeriall ( if any other ) to be performed by power and authoritie from christ , as you acknowledge , for the preaching of the word , and dispensation of the seales in your second consideration . but these acts one minister may performe in another congregation , or towards the members of another church . you know by whom your question hath been propounded touching one ministers exercising in another ministers church , and how it hath been answered ; and if you see more light and truth then formerly , we would desire you substantially to confute what answers some of you have returned to that demand . to admit ( saith mr. j. d. ) those that are known members of another church to communion in the sacraments upon fitting occasions i hold lawfull , and do professe my readinesse to practise accordingly . again , i conceive that ( besides my membership else where , and the right which those churches give to known passants of being admitted to the communion for a short time ) both himself and the whole church acknowledge me for a member with them for the time of my abode in that service , which they testified by desiring the help of my publick labours , and their cheerfull admittance of me to that ordinance during that time without the least scruple . and if a minister may pray , preach , blesse the congregation in the name of the lord , and receive the sacrament with them , being thereunto requested ; we doubt not but by consent of the pastor and the congregation he may lawfully dispense the seals amongst them also as need and occasion requires . that distinction of preaching by office , and exercising his gifts onely , when it is done by a minister , and desired of none but ministers , and that in solemne , set , constant church-assemblies , we cannot find warranted in the word of truth , and therefore we dare not receive it . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e it is truly observed by master davenport out of an. bros . offic. l . c. et quantum libet quisque profecerit , 〈◊〉 est qui doceri non indige●● d●m vivit . appoll . preface to the reader . were not these men ( saith cann against robin ) superstitiously addicted to their new devise , that beware how to reject the unanimous judgment and practice of all learned men and true churches . stay against straying . pag. . i am and shall be always ready to give all due respect to those good customes of churches , which are taken upon good warrant and ground , and long continued among gods people . i. d. apol p. . good customes taken up by the churches upon good grounds should not lightly be broken or laid downe , wherein i doe fully agree with the authour of that elaborate commentary upon the fourth chapter of iohn , i. d. apol. sect. . examina . p. . notes for div a -e this argument is used by the abridgment against conformity to the ceremonies , and we do not see but it is as strong against this liturgy . whereas the publisher of this answer to the six positions , refers the reader to mr. cottons answer unto mr. ball for satisfaction in this point concerning set formes of prayer . the reader is earnestly intreated to compare master balls treatise , and mr. cottons answer with seriousnesse and indifferencie , because mr ball having received that answer before the publishing of his treatise ( being much enlarged , whereof mr , cotton was ignorant ) was confident , that with addition of some marginall notes ( which in reference thereto he added ) his treatise would sufficiently defend it selfe , against all the assaults , which that answer made against it . notes for div a -e we may not communicate at all in that ministery , which is exercised by an unlawfull person or in an unlawful . place robinson against bern. counsell debated p ibid pag . esa . . . ezech . , . mic. . , . ier. . . esa . . , . ioh. . . math . , . & . , . & — ▪ . math. . . & . . see whitak de pontif . q. . f . pag. . phil. . . h●s . , . sam. . , , , , . ier . , . mic . , . phil. . . helv cons . cap. § . & §. , gal. conf . art . . arg. conf . art. saxon. conf . art. zep de sa● l. . c. . art. of religion , hybern . art. carlton praelect de ecclesia , cap. . beza de presbyt . et excōmunicat . p. . ista vero , quia nonnulli à sacris caetib . & sacrament . usu propter aliorum vitia ultro abstinent i. e. seipsos excommunicant magnam reprehensionem merentur . we see no warrant why for every particular act , that in a larger sence is idolatrous , adjoyned to gods true worship , we should forbeare our presence at the true worship it self . unreason . of seperation . answ to . argument . compare what master i. d. hath written in defence or excuse in resorting to the assemb . of the separatists , called brownists . apol. sect. . exam . p. . & apol. sect. exam . pag. . notes for div a -e rom. . cor. . & . . rom . . gal ● . . thess . . . cor ▪ . gal. . . act ▪ . & & . . . eph. . , . acts . . . gen . . math. . . robins . against bern. reas . discus . pa. . lev . . deut. . . & . . . rom. . deut. . . psa . neh. . . act. . . luk. . cor & . deut . . io. . robin against bern p . act. . tit. . rob : against bern. act . la the same verse the some persons are called the church disciples , and christians pag. . . &c. fo pag. ezeck . . see lavater on ezek math . . ier. . . ios. . rom. . ▪ act . as christ is that one great pastor , so hath hee generally one fold and flock , iohn . . ezeck . . which is his church , as he saith . and ye my flock , the flock of my pasture are men , ezek. . . aynsw . cant . . sure it is that hee is none of christs sheepe visibly , or in respect of men which is without christs sheepfold , for there is one sheepfold and one sheepheard . iohn . . robins against bern likelihoods , p. . hieron . tom . . ep. . nec altera roma urbis ecclesia , altera totius orbis existimanda est , & gallia , & britannia , & asia , &c. & omnes barbarae nationes unum christum adorant , unam observant regulam veritatis . cor . col. . ● . cor. , . cor. . gal. . . phil. . . tim. . . pet. . . pastores sunt omnes , sed grex unus qui ab apostolis omnibus unanimi consensu pascatur . cypr. de unitate ecclesiae . et si pastores multi sumus , unum tamen gregem pascimus , cypr. l. . epistola . cum sit a christo una ecclesia per totum mundum in multa membra divisa item episcopatus unus episcoporum multorum concordi numero diffusus , &c. cypr. l. . ep. . iohn . . . & . & . . athanasius may be for an example . gen. . . lev. . . apo. . . . heb. . . rob. against bern. pa. . rom. . . . gen. . . gal. , , , , , rob. against ber. pa. . see mr. i. d. apol. . sect. exam p. . i. d. apol. . sect. ex●m . pag. , & . bucer . diff . ep . . pa. . & ep . pa. . act. . . & . act. . . . & . . acts . . & . . & . & . . & . ezra . . , , . act. . & . . . , , , , & . . & . . . act. . . act. act. et et . . , . acts . & . . & . . acts . . robinson against bern p. . euseb hist l. . c. . lat . graec. . ruff. ●hit de sacra contr . de bapt . qu & . pag , . atters . of the sacr : l. . c. fol. . 〈◊〉 de presbyt . pag. . act. . col. . pet . act . . ioh. . . & . mark. . . act . & . . rob. against bern. p these keyes in d. &c. in the corporation ( the church ) there is alwayes the whole power of christ to residing , which you may call officers for the use of it selfe , to which it is sufficient that it can without officers use this power for things simply necessary ; as for receiving in of members by profession of faith and confession of sins , for edifying of them by exhortation and comforts in the ordinance of prophesying , and so for excommunication . rob. against b. pag. . see rob. against ber. pag. . . . if you call it consultation in an assembly wherein all have equall power and voyce in determining things some one going before the rest idem pag. robins . against bern. coun. debated , p. . ibid. p. . cor. . cor. . . beza de presbyt . & excom . pag. robins . against bern. pag. . acts. the word of god and cano is of councels will have pastors so to care for their own flock , that they forbid them not to care for the whole church , especially in a time of common combustion . the answer of some brethren . pag. ● . publica dei invocatio non minima pars communis in unâ fide consensionis . beza contra erastum , de presbyt pap . . euseb hist . . c. . graec. chami●● . panst . ●om . l. . c. . sect. . the churches plea , pag . apol. pag. & ● . orig. in isa . hom. . qui vocatur ad episcopatum , vocatur ad servitutem totius ecclesiae . chrysost . in cor. hom . . vniversae curam gerimus . see cham panstr . tom. . pag. . cap. . sect. , , . &c. jun. animadv . in bellar. contro . . lib. . c. . not . . & cap. not . . act. . . rom. . phil. . , . & . ● . iam . , . act. . . & . & . . & . cor. . , . esay . . eza . . io. . . . & . . & . . revel . . what example have you but grounds for the baptising of infants ? or where read you of any officer excommunicated by any rob. against ber. p. . we may not expect examples of any pastors in scriptures : who did thus . i. d. apol. . sect. exam . p. . see i. d. apol. texts . exam pa. . exod . exod. . col . , . erast so objects against bern-sicut a circumcisione ad baptismum argumentamur ut probemus infantes esse baptizandos , ita etiam licet ab agno paschatis ad coenam domini , &c. whereto hee truly replyeth . ego vero , non nego licere &c. at non temere & universaliter . beza contra erast . pag. . lev. . . . & . exo. . , eph. ▪ . etiam si daremus nullam legi ab apostolis excommunicationem non tamen sequeretur ita esse , quum satis constet non omnium singularia apostolorum gesta perscripta fuisse . bez. de presb. p. . et si de melchizedeck & iobo quae huc adferuntur non sunt extra controversiam . nam foedere cum abra. inito non excluduntur ij qui ante erant in foedere sed accensentur foederi . ita autem se habuit melchizedeck , &c. omnino enim consors promissionis divinae fuit ante foedus cum eo initum . gen. . job vero & credens fuit promissionibus foederis & de sententia veterum fuit circumcisus etiam haereditariâ circumcisione a paterno maternoque sanguine . vt elegantèr scribit author libri de verâ circumcisione qui hieron . ad scribitur . iun. animadv . in bellar . contrav . . lib. . cha . . not . . io. d. exam of tents p . mat. . . io . act. . . . & . & . . . . cor. . . . joh. . . . cor. . . rev. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & script . ethnici apud patres audiunt . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . matth. . ● . ephes . . . rob. against ber. p. . * mr. io. d. apol. sect. . exam . p. . what though this inconvenience do arise sometimes through mans corruption it should be otherwise ; and we must ever consider of the nature of gods ordinances in their right use , &c. rob. against ber. pa. . respondit caam nullam fuisse cur io. bapt. istos accedentes rejiceret ut qui ad ejus bapt . venirent cum peccatorum agnitione nec ipse potestatem haberet eos excommunicandi etiamsi fuissent excom . digni . beza de presb. p . recte sane quis illos à sacris prohibuerat , &c. etsi sit tam sceleratus quispiam quam esse existimatur tum si tale judicium sibi quisque sumat quae mox fuerit ecclesie facies ? sed preterea tenendum est istud in hoc negotio inita cujuspiam cons . non probabillas rectam alterius consciam . id. pa. . id in privatorum arbitrio relinquere ut alibi diximus & periculosum nimis & toti ecclesiae valde damnosum fuisset . id. p. . demonstr . of disc . ca. . rob. against bern. likely veiwed . p. . john . . math. . . cor. . , . tit. . , . rob. ag . ber. pa. . rob. ag . bern. pa. . matth. . , . ioh. . . and . . matt. . . . act. . , . act. . . act. . . & . . . act. . . act. . . and . . . act. . . act. , . . . cor. . . matth. . . act. . . and . , , . helv. conf . c. . gallic . sect. . anglic. & ab eo neminem qui velit profiteri nomen christi ne infantes quidem christianorum hominum , &c. scot. conf . c. . belgic . act . zengerm . conf . de bapt. infant . pro. . argent . conf . ca. . saxon. confes . ca. . palab . conf . sect. ad usum vero ipsum , &c. rob. against ber. pa. . matth. . . act. . . & . . . and . . and . . cor. . . act. . . act. . . joh , , . & . . act. . . whit. de sacra . q. . de bap. cap. . pa . act. . . & . . cor. . . against b. pa. . see j. d. ap. sect. . pa. , , . deut. . . rom. . , , , . rom. . . gen. . , and . . act . . gal. . . . tit. . . mat. . . pet. . . cor. . . cor. . . matth. . . . mark . . . luk. . . matth. . , . mar. . , . act. . . . act. . . . act . - . act. . - . notes for div a -e v●d . park . pol. ecclesiastica . l. . c. , &c. a fen. theol. lib. . park . de pol. lib. . c. . j. d. apol. . sect. exam . pa. , , . b rob. against ber. pa. . by two or three are meant the meanest communion or societie of saints , with or without officers . rob. against ber. certaine observations , p. . onely he that is of the true visible church and furnished with the power of christ , the keyes of the kingdome for the censure can admonish his brother in order , and those degrees which the word prescribeth mat. . . . id pa . the power as to receive in , so to cut off any member is given to the whole body together of every christian congregation , and not to any one member apart , or to more members seque●tred from the whole , using the meetest number for pronouncing the censures , id. pa. - . if the brethren have libertie in the ordinance of prophesying , they have also libertie in the other ordinance of excommunication , for they are both of the same nature ; looke to whom christ gave the one key of knowledge , to them he gave the other key of discipline , rob. against b●rn . pa , , . mat. . . joh. . , . & . , ● . gal. . . ioh . . whit. de pont . q. . c. . . cor. . . & . . tim. . . authoritas rectorum pro dono quidem ecclesiae à christo data est , sed non pro dono absoluto , ut penes totam ecclesiam resideat cui datur , sed pro dono conditionali , ut rectoribus ipsis communicetur ad totius aedificationem , park . de polit. lib. . cap. . cor. . . cor . . tim . . cor. . . act. . . eph. . . . co. . , co . , . tit. . . successor habet jurisdictionē ab eo a quo praedecessor , alioqui non verè succedit . but pastors and teachers are the successors of the apostles . whit. de pont . q. . c. . fr : victor rel . . de potest ecclesiae q. . alphons . de castr . li. . c. . de insta . haeret . whit. de pont . q. . c. . cham. panstr . ●om . . lib. . c. . sect . . ames bel-enerv . tom . . l. . c. . ministri ecclesiastici sunt ecclesiae tanquam objecti circa quod versantur ministri sunt christi tanquam principalis causae & domini à quo pendent ministri sed nullo modo episcoporum . omnis legatus in causâ legationis suae immediatè pendet ab eo à quo mittitur , & instrumento mandatorum in corrupto est indelebilis . a we denie the order of elders to be superiour to the order of saints , since it is not an order of mastership but of service . rob. against bern. pa. . it were a strange thing that men could have no command over their servants , as i have oft shewed the church-officers to be her servants . id. p. . the order of servants is inferiour to the order of them whose servants they are : but the order of church-officers is an order of servants , and they by office to serve the people , id. p. . . notes for div a -e heb. . . pro. . . & . . . gen . . . levit. . . mat. . . gal. . . rob. ag . bern. pa. . exod. . . deut. . . & . . . & . . ezek. . . . nū . . . . deut. . . , . josh . . . , , . iudg. . . . & . . . & . . & . - . chr. . . kin. . . & . . chr. . . heb. . . . act. . . & . . & . , , . act. . . notes for div a -e whit. de pont . q. . ca. . p. . ep . li. . rom . . heb. . . bel. de cler. li. . c. . jun. animad . contr . . l. c . not . . rom. . . theod. hist . l. . c. . aug epist . . & . socrat. hist . l . c. , . . zozom . hist . l. . c. , . nazian . in epitaphium patris evagr. l. . c. . . theod. hist . l. . c. . jun. animadver in bel. cont . . l. . c. . not . , . cartur . reply d . part . pa. . illiric . catal . test . li. . tit . ecclesiae gubern . jos . antiq. l. . c. . c. . see ambros . de officijs . l. . c. . hieron . ad ocean & epist. ad nepotian . t. c. reply . pa. . a revet . cathol . orth . tract . . q. . sect. . cartw. reply . par . . pa. . notes for div a -e to baptise is a duty of the pastors pastoriall office . i. d. apol . ser. exam . pa. . exam. of texts , pa. . apol. exam . of texts . p. . a defence of the answer and arguments of the synod met at boston in the year concerning the subject of baptism and consociation of churches against the reply made thereto, by the reverend mr. john davenport, pastor of the church at new-haven, in his treatise entituled another essay for investigation of the truth &c. : together with an answer to the apologetical preface set before that essay, by some of the elders who were members of the synod above-mentioned. mather, richard, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing m estc w ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a defence of the answer and arguments of the synod met at boston in the year concerning the subject of baptism and consociation of churches against the reply made thereto, by the reverend mr. john davenport, pastor of the church at new-haven, in his treatise entituled another essay for investigation of the truth &c. : together with an answer to the apologetical preface set before that essay, by some of the elders who were members of the synod above-mentioned. mather, richard, - . , p. printed by s. green and m. johnson for hezekiah usher of boston, cambridge : . imperfect: p. - lacking. "an answer" attributed to jonathan mitchel, a.m. of cambridge , and "a defence" to the reverend mather of dorchester by nuc pre- imprints. reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng congregational churches -- controversial literature. congregational churches -- massachusetts. baptism -- history. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - rina kor sampled and proofread - rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of the answer and arguments of the synod met at boston in the year . concerning the svbiect of baptism , and consociation of chvrches . against the reply made thereto , by the reverend mr. iohn davenport , pastor of the church at new-haven , in his treatise entituled , another essay for investigation of the truth , &c. together with an ansvver to the apologetical preface set before that essay ▪ by some of the elders who were members of the synod above-mentioned . thess. . . prove all things ; held fast that which is good . chron. . . keep and seek for all the commandments of the lord ye●● god , that ●● may possess this good land , and leave it for ●n inheritance for your children after you for ever . cambridge : printed by s. green and m. iohnson for hezekiah vsher of boston . . never yet been admitted to the lords table . forms ●● ratio ecclesiast . minist . in peregrinor . ecclesiâ institutâ lendini , &c. pag. — , . with pag. , , , . holy baynes accounts , that children are a part of the church , dioces . tryall , pag. . and the principles pointed to in his christian letters ; letter . pag. , . and letter . pag. , . edit . . also in his exposition of the epistle to the ephesians , on chap. . . doct. . and on chap. . . pag. , . and other places , may easily be improved unto a confirmation of the doctrine of the synod . dr. ames ( whom the preface calls for-ever famous , iudicious , &c. and that very deservedly ) how large his judgement is as to the subject of baptism , may be seen by any that have his cases of conscience , lib. . cap. . he requires no more unto the most proper right of a child to baptism , but that the parents o● one of them be intra ecclesiam , within the church ; though he thinks that others also may be baptized , if any godly persons will undertake for their education . and how plainly he holds forth the doctrine of the synod in his medulla , lib. . cap. . thes. , . & cap. . thes. , , . is easie to be collected . we may well here take up the words of worthy mr. cotton , in his preface before mr. nertons answer to apollonius , where having named cartwright , partus , baynes , and ames , those chariots and horsemen of israel , and leaders in the cause of reformation , he addes , ab borum sive vestigiis , sive principiis si novitatis studio cessimus , jure meritò deseremur ut desertores . quod si in viâ illorum ambulamus nec ultrà pregredimur ( quod ad summam rei attine● ) quàm ab illorum lumine divinitùs collustrati , cert● non nos illi sumus , qui causam reformationis deseruimus , sed illi potiùs ( quos lubens nollem dicere ) qui nos ut desertores deserunt & de●estantur . so here : if we out of any changeable inclinations , or spirit of innovation , have departed from the footsteps or principles of those blessed patrons of reformation ( such as were now named , and others of the good old non-conformists , who both with prayers , tears and sufferings , and with as much judicious learning and piety as the world hath yet seen , have handed down to us the work and way of reformation ) then let us be , and well might we be deserted and censured as desertors or apostates ( as we are by too many ) but if we adhere to the principles , and tread in the steps of those worthies , and go no further then they , or then the light which god hath communicated by them doth lead us , surely we have not deserted nor departed from the cause of reformation ; but they rather ( though unwillingly we speak it ) who desert and dislike us as desertors . the elders and messengers of the congregational churches in england , in the preface to the result of their meeting at the savoy , do profess a full concurrence throughout in all the substantial parts of church-government with their reverend brethren the old puritan non-confermists , citing in the margin fox , dearing , greenbam , cartwright , fenner , fulk , whitaker , reynolds , perkins , &c. now let the judgement of these ( such of them as have left any thing written about this question , by which we may judge of the mindes of the rest ) be considered ; and see if they do not abundantly confirm such ● latitude of baptism as we plead for . what if our congregational brethren in england have not yet , by reason of the infancy of their churches , had so much occasion to look into this question ( as our selves for a long time had not ) nor yet so much need to trouble themselves about the full extent of baptism , in a place where there were enow that would baptize those whom themselves left unbaptized ? yet when the lord shall incline any of those able and worthy persons to set themselves to the study of this point : why should we think that they will not be willing to receive light from , or that they will be willing easily to go against the judgements of those old non-conformists , whom they professedly concurre-with in other parts of discipline ? so much for the discourse upon the first objection . in answer to to the second objection , the apologist gives this warning , let us not for fear of anabaptism , do worse , even defile our selves with antichristianism . and makes this profession , we are willing to profess that we look upon it as great a sin to baptize all children , as to baptize to children . ans. . we should not chuse to put anabaptism as contradistinct to antichristianism . take antichristianism for all that which is against christ his mind , rules and kingdome , so surely anabaptism is a part of it . take it for the corruptions of the papacy , how near a-kin the doctrines and principles of the papists and anabaptists are , is shewed in à late preface to mr. shepard's letter . the anabaptists are indeed ready enough to call every thing that they mislike , antichristian ; as if none were enemies to antichristianism so much as they . but if to oppose , obstruct , and undermine the kingdome of our lord jesus christ , be an antichristian thing , let scripture , reason , and experience speak , whether their tenents and wayes be not highly antichristian . does not their cutting off so great a part of the subjects of christs kingdome , as the children of the faithful are ( mat. . . ) their changing the frame of the covenant , whereby his vi●●ble kingdome in his church is constituted and continued , &c. give ( though secretly , and under plausible pretences ) a most deep and dangerous wound to the interest and progress of christs kingdome ? and hath not experience shewed anabaptism ( with its wonted concomitant errours ) to be the vexation and clog of reformation ever since the beginning of it . . to speak here of baptizing the children of infidells and pagans , as if any did incline to that , would be a strange absurdity : but if by [ all children ] be meant the children of all that are named christians , though we think it too great a l●xness to baptize all such , yet we are past doubt , that so to do is farre neerer the rule and mind of christ , when he sayes [ dis●ple 〈◊〉 nations , baptizing them ] then to baptize no children . let us be farre from making bucan , zanchy , calvin , perkins , and many other eminent and worthy divines , who are for such a latitude of baptizing , to be equally erroneous with the anabaptists . let no one make it a temptation to himself or others , to run to antip●●d●baptism , because he hears the assertors of infant-baptism plead for a greater latitude of baptism then he thinks is ( or perhaps then indeed is ) meet . errour in particular applications of the rule , is farre less then errour in a principle . anabaptism erres in a principle , and principal rule of church-constitution . and he that narrowly observes the frame of christs rules and dispensations about this matter , will find much of that maxime in them , faveres sunt ampliandi . we see the lord takes in the children as holy , if but one of the parents be a believer ; he appoints us to recei●e the weak , as well as the strong . we find not that the apostles refused any that were willing to come in , and to be subjects of christs visible kingdome : neither are persons or people utterly broken off from a portion in the visible church , till after all means and long patience used , &c. as if christ studyed the inlargement of his visible kingdome among men ( i. e. as much as may be with the honour or his holiness and government ) rather then the straitning thereof . many pious-minded persons among us are very fearful of inlarging , and of corruption that way : but why should we not also be afraid of grieving the heart of christ ( mark . ) by too much straitning , and by keeping or putting out those whom christ takes in ? for we may not take away or diminish from the word of god , no more then we may adde thereto , deut. . . the lord keep us from extreams on either hand , and guide us in the right middle way that is according to his will. but the preface goes on ; neither can we plead guilty unto that charge , that we deny all church-membership unto any in●ants ; we onely deny that they are personal and immediate members . indeed as personal membership is taken subjectiv●ly , so we say it is in infants , i. e. their persons are recipients of the ad●unct of church membership : but as personal membership is taken formally , i. e. for such as have by them , ●●tes in their own persons entred into covenant with god and his people , so infants are not capable of personal church-membership . ans. it is pity to clog and cloud the plain things of car●●● with intricate distinctions , which do rather bemist and puzzle the readers understanding , then enlighten it . one would think it should suffice men to know that their children are ( by the lordsrich grace and appointment ) in their own persons within the covenant , and so members of the church , without disputing whether they be so subjectively or f●rmally , &c. and should such distinctions pass for currant , what other use they would be of , we know not ; but sure we are , they would do great service to the anabaptists , though we believe that is not the intendment of our brethren , to comply with , or build up anabaptism . but we are not now speaking to intentions or persons , but to arguments and distinctions in themselves ; considered . for , suppose one give this argument for infant-baptism ( and indeed we know not a better ) members of the visible church are to be baptized : infants of confederate parents are members of the visible church : ergo. how readily may it be answered , that personal and immediate members ( or they that have personal membership formally ) are to be baptized ; but not mediate and not-personal members , or they that have it ( not formally , but ) subjectively onely . we have known an antipoedebaptist flie to this as his sheat-anchor [ infants are members ; ●ut how ? why , not personal members , but members in their parents ; and so let them be baptized ( mediately ) in their parents , and not in their own persons . ] and indeed , why should the seal of membership be immediately and formally applied to their own persons , if they be not in their own persons immediate and formal ( or formally ) members ? but let us search a little into this distinction between personal membership as taken subjectively , and the same as taken formally , and see what there is in it , with reference to the matter in hand . for , that children are personal and immediate members , is asserted and proved by the synod , but denied by our brethren : and this distinction is here brought to bear up that deniall , or to tell us in what sense they deny personal membership to infants . it was sometimes roundly denied , that infants are personal members ; now it is denied with a distinction : they are personal members ( say they ) subjectively , but not formally . answ. . if infants be members , they are formally so : for , forma est per quam res est id quod est . if we say , such an one is a man , a father , a master , &c. we must mean that he is formally a man , or hath the form of a man , &c. he is not a member , that hath not the form of a member . to say he is a member , and to deny him the form of a member , is to say and unsay . . it is here said , that , as personal membership is taken subjectively , so it is in infants , i. e. their persons are recipients of the adjunct of church-membership . we demand , whether this does not fully yield the cause , and give us as much as we need to the matter in hand ? for , if the person of the infant be recipient of the adjunct of church-membership , then of formal church-membership ( it is not church-membership , if it want the form ) then formal ( or proper ) church-membership , doth cleave to the person of the infant ; then the person of this infant is formally a church-member , or , he is a personal formal member . he needs no more to render him a personal formal member ( or formally a personal member ) then to have the adjunct of church-membership upon him , or cleaving to his person . for membership ( as all such 〈◊〉 relations , fatherhood , sonship , &c. ) is but an adjunct ; it enters not into the essence of any man , but cleaves to him as an adjunct . and so no man is more then subjectively a member ( the most formally personal member that is , is but subjectively a member in this sense ) i. e. he is a subject recipient of membership , or one that hath the adjunct of membership cleaving to him . if therefore the person of the infant be recipient of the adjunct of church-membership , then he is a personal formal member , or formally a personal member , for his person hath the form of membership upon it , or cleaving to it . . when it 's said , [ but as personal membership is taken form●lly , i. e. for such as have by themselves in their own persons entred into covenant with god and his people , so infants are not capable of personal membership ] what logick is this , to put the efficient for the form , or to make it a part thereof ? it is wont to be said , efficiens non ingreditur essentiam . the act of covenanting on our part , whereby we are brought into the church , is but an efficient ( yea , but an instrumental efficient : the book calls it a precrean : cause , pag. . that is still but an efficient : yet consider it in contradistinction to divine institution , it can but instrumentally procreate ) but the form , or formalis ratio of membership , is to be within the covenant , or within the church , cor. . . whatever causality our act in pro●essing and covenanting do contribute to bring us in , it can be but an efficient . and hence it doth not denominate or constitute the formality of our membership . object . but [ formally ] here is referred to personal , not to membership . ans. if so it be , yet still the same answers hold , unless it mean no more then every one grants , and so be nothing to the purpose . if the meaning onely be that infants do not enter into covenant by an act of their own proper persons ; who ever said or thought they did ? what need we labour in finding out distinctions to deny them that which no body ever challenged for them ? or to what purpose is that ? but the question is , whether infants be not personal members ( or personally and formally members ) although they never yet put forth an act of covenanting in their own persons ? we affirm it , because they have the forme of membership ( or the adjunct of formal membership ) cleaving to their own persons by divine institution . and so we say they are personally , and formally members , though they have not yet acted any thing in their own proper persons . you seem to deny it , and bring a distinction to clear your meaning : the former branch of which distinction , as your selves explain it , grants the thing that we plead for ; the latter branch , as you also explain it , denies no more then we deny , viz. that they enter by their own proper personal act. but the mistake lies in making this [ viz. entring by ones own proper act ] to be formally personal membership : whereas that is formally personal membership , that doth formally and properly constitute the person a member ; and so , [ being within the covenant ] doth the infants in question , though they never yet acted in their own persons . the distinction should rather stand thus ; as personal membership is taken properly and formally , so it agrees to infants ; i. e. their persons are recipients of the adjunct of proper formal church-membership , but as personal membership is taken improperly ( and very improperly indeed ) i. e. for the membership of such as have by themselves or by their own personal profession entred into covenant , so infants are not capable of personal membership . thus it might be granted . but why should we use personal membership in so improper a sence , or insist on a sence that toucheth not the cause in question ? the sum is , that if by [ personal membership taken formally ] be meant onely , entring by their own proper personal act , then the distinction is needless and not ad rem . but if it be meant so as to deny what we affirm , then it is overthrown by your selves in the former branch . grant them to be personal members subjectively , you therein grant them to be so formally : deny them personal membership formally , you deny it subjectively . these do mutuò so ponere & tollere , being used in any sence that is proper and pertinent to the present dispute . but consider whether it would sound rationally to say , that paul was not formally a personal roman ( or not formally a roman free-man in his own person ) because he did not buy his freedome with his own money ; or that a childe who hath an inheritance left him , is not formally a personal owner thereof , because himself did not purchase it : or , that infants are personal subjects in such a kingdome , members of such a family , subjectively onely , not formally , because they did not become such by their own previous personal act . these and such like shew how improper and incongruous it is , to make ones own personal act to be that which constitutes the formality of personal membership . preface . it 's strange to us to conceive , that they should have this personal formal membership , and yet that they should not be subjects capable of formal personal censures . ans. they are capable in regard of their relation and state in the church , though not in regard of natural capacity , nor in regard of demerit ; for an infant cannot ecclesiastically deserve publick censure . it is not strange to conceive infants to be subjects of such a prince , though at present uncapable of civil tryals and punishments . it suffices that infant-members are in a state of subjection to church discipline , and ingaged thereto for afterward , though at present naturally uncapable of the exercise thereof . the new born infant is not capable of domestical discipline ( either rod or rebuke ) but that hinders not his being a formal personal member of the family . preface . we neither do , nor ever did deny , that , the persons of infants of believing confederate parents , are brought under the covenant , onely we conceive that their membership is conjunct with , and dependent upon the membership and covenant of their parents , so as to live and dye therewith — hence when the parents are excommunicated , the membership of the infant-childe is cut off ▪ because excommunication puts an end to the outward covenant ( which death it self doth not do ) and if the root be destroyed , the branches cannot live . ans. that the childes membership depends upon the membership of the parent , as the instrumental cause or condition of the childes first entrance into the church , or becoming a member , we readily grant ( because divine institution admitteth onely the children of members to be members ) and so much mr. cottons words here all●dged in the preface do truly teach . but that the childes membership is so wrapt up in the membership of the parent , as to live and dye therewith , as if it had no proper and distinct membership of its own , is surely a deep mistake , and will ( if followed ) overthrow that subjective personal membership before granted unto infants , and that which is here also owned , viz. that their persons are brought under the covenant : if the persons of the infants be brought under the covenant , then their persons are within the covenant , or their persons are confederate , then not onely the person of the parent , but the person of the childe hath the formality of membership upon it . and as the person of the childe in regard of its natural being , though for the first existence thereof it depended under god upon the parent , yet when once it is born into the world , it is not so conjunct with , and dependent upon the person of the parent , as to live and dye therewith ; so why should the membership of the childe be thus dependent ? seeing the book ( to which this preface is prefixed ) affirmeth , p . that the parent is a procreant cause , as of the childe● natural being by his generating him , so also of his church-membership by his confederating for him , and this by gods institution . and seeing the person of the childe hath a membership of its own affixed to it ( as the foresaid grants import ) and that from god ( from gods covenant and institution ) as well as the person of the parent ; why should we say , that the membership of the childe doth after this , depend upon the membership or covenant of the parent , and not rather upon gods covenant and institution , so as to live and dye according to the order and appointment thereof , and not otherwise ? hence the membership wherewith the person of the childe is clothed by gods institution , dyes not till either the person of the childe dye , or till by some institution and appointment of god he be cut off from his membership for his own sin . neither must it be yelded , that the excommunication of the parent , doth properly and formally cut off the infant-childe that was born before such excommunication . we say , properly and formally , for consequentially and eventually it may bring the childe to be cut off also ; as in case the parent desperately go away from the church among hereticks and infidels , and bring up the childe to serve other gods : but so it may be with a wife carried away by such an husband , yet that does not hinder her from having a personal , distinct , proper and immediate membership , nor make his cutting off to be hers also . but suppose a parent and children that live and continue among us ; the parent having a company of children , all in their minority , is for his wickedness cast out , and continuing impenitent , dyes in that estate : to say that all these children ( who were born and baptized in the church ) are cut off from membership hereby , is a strange assertion . for . this would make an infant-childe to be a subject of excommunication , which was before ( and in regard of natural capacity and demerit , rightly ) denied . . if a parent in israel was for his sin cut off from his people , were the children that he left behind him therefore excluded from the commonwealth of israel ? to be sure , in crimes , capitally punished ( of which cutting off from their people is sometimes plainly meant , exod. . , . levit. . . & . . & . . ) the childe was not to dye for the fathers sin , deut. . . chron. . . ier. . . ezek. . . and is there not the like reason of other punishments , whether ecclesiastical or civil ? yea , that cutting off from their people appointed in the law , is conceived by judicious interpreters to be in some places most properly meant of an ecclesiastical death , or cutting off from the people and church of god by excommunication ; but however , it held a proportion with excommunication now under the gospel . the childe may be barred from a right or privilegde that he ne●er had , by the sin or condition of the parent : so h●athen children are unclean and without , because their parents are so . ( hence children born after the parents excommunication are not of the church : ) but to be deprived of a right or priviledge which ●e once ●ad , and was possessed of ( which is the case of children formerly born in the church , and owned as members by the seal of baptism ) this hath in it the nature of a proper formal punishment or censure , and this is inflicted upon none but for his own sin . a parent civilly or naturally dead , cannot after that bring forth children to the commonwealth ; nor can a parent ecclesiastically dead ( he so continuing ) bring forth children to the church . but the children that are already members of the one society or of the other , are not to be cut off therefrom for their parents sin . . that , if the root be destroyed , the branches cannot live , is a truth in nature of branches growing on the same tree : but if these branches be taken and set upon a st●ck and root of their own , ( though but as in a nursery ) then they do not die when the old tree dies , or is cut up by the roots . and so is the case in hand . these children are inserted and implanted into the church , the body of christ , in their own persons ( as was but now granted , when it was said , the persons of these infants do . receive the adjunct of of church-membership , and that their persons are ●rought under the covenant ) and have so farre taken root therein , as to receive ( not from their parents , but from the church , and from the soil and fa●ness thereof ) the sap and nourishment of baptism , which is also a seal of the establishment or rooting of their membership . branches included and contained in the root ( as children yet unborn , or not born till after excommunication ) are broken off ( or rather left without ) together with their parents : but not such branches as are already severed from the root , and planted in the house of god , in the vineyard of the lord of hosts , as through the grace of the covenant our children are , isa. . . . that death does not put an end to the outward covenant , which excommunication does , is a notion that we understand not : we should have thought that outward membership ( or membership in the visible instituted church ) as well as the use of all outward ordinances , or instituted wor●hip , had everlastingly ceased at death . the ends , duties and enjoyments of outward membership , do then cease , and so the membership it self . the lord knows how many may from outward membership in the visible church , drop to hell ; and does not their death put an end to their membership ? and if death put an end to outward membership , it puts an end to outward covenant in the sense of the question , i. e. as to the person that dies . indeed it does not hinder the continuance of the covenant to others that are in covenant , and are surviving : and neither does excommunication so do . but the person of the parent loses his membership in the visible church when he dies , as well as when he is excommunicated . and hence if the membership of the childe did live and die with the membership of the parent , there would be a cessation of it in the one case , as well as in the other . a parents faith , prayers , and covenant may live , though hi● self be dead : but how ? i. e. virtually , in the virtue and effect of them : and how is that ? why , the promise made by god to the faith , prayers , and profession ( or covenanting ) of a godly parent , that lives , and abides , and takes effect . so then it is neither the parent , nor his membership , but gods covenant that lives , taking in the children that are begotten or born of confederate parents , to be members of his visible church , and so continuing them , till by some rule or appointment of his they be cut off . in like manner , though the parent by his sin and wickedness have deprived himself of a portion in israel , and be cut off by the censure of excommunication ; yet the covenant of god lives , and stands to the children whom he had before taken into covenant , and planted in his house . to call it the covenant of their parents , and to say that childrens membership is dependent upon that , is too crude a p●r●se , and too much abused by many , ascribing that to the parents , and to their profession ( or act in covenanting ) which belongs most properly to god , and his grace . 't is gods covenant that takes in both parents and children . alas , what are parents ! and what could all their profession , and faith , and actings do , if god did not vouchsafe to take them into covenant ? now god taketh the childe into his covenant , as well as the parent : and 't is gods covenant and institution that the membership of the chide depends upon , and with which alone it l●ves and dies . but it follows in the preface : true it is , that we have made much use of that distinction of immediate and mediate members ▪ which seems to us to carry a mighty and constraining evidence of scripture-light along with it , &c. ans. we must needs say this seems strange to us , when as there is not so much as one scripture brought ( either here , or in the book following ) to make good or hold forth such a distinction . in stead of scriptures , here are some authors streight named , not to attest the distinction of immediate and mediate . ( it see●s that cannot be found , no not so much as in authors ) but of compleat and incompleat . to which the answer is ready : . if some authors have so distinguished members , yet where is such a distinction of membership ? at least purposely so intended , as to mak● several sorts or kindes of membership specifically differing , as is expresly said of the distinction here pleaded for in the book , pag . dr ▪ ames , in the place here cited ▪ does not say of infants . non sunt 〈◊〉 membra , but perfecta membra : neither does he say , non sunt perfecta , but non sunt adeo perfecta membra : they are not so perfect members ( saith he ) of the church , as that they can exercise acts of communion , or be admitted to partake of all the priviledges thereof : plainly referring the imperfection or incompleatness , not to the essence of their membership , but to the degree of their communion and priviledges . hence , . their distinction of members into compleat and incompleat , is ( being candidly taken ) as much as our distinction of members into such as are in ●ull ( or compleat ) communion , and such as are not yet in full communion ; which distinction we have ( and we hope justly ) made great use of . and for such a distinction re●●ipsa loquitur . all that are within ( of , or belonging to ) such a society , whether family , commonwealth , or church , are truely and properly said to be members of that society ; but all are not equal in participation of priviledges therein : some have a more full ( or compleat ) 〈◊〉 and portion therein , and some have less . all christs scholars ( or disciples ) are not of the highest form ; nor are all his subjects betrusted with the keyes of his kingdome ; nor all his children past their non-age , &c. but yet they are all disciples in his school , subjects of his kingdome , children of his family , i. e. members o● the visible church . but such a distinction as maketh several sorts of membership specifically different , we have not yet seen cleared and confirmed , either from scripture , or authors , or from sound reason . sundry distinctions or sorts of members , might easily be given ; as , some members are in office in the church , some out of office ; some partake of the lords supper , but not of the power of voting , ( as women ) some of both ; some have onely initial priviledges , some all. ( ames medul . lib . cap . thes. ● . ) but these are but distributions ex adjunctis , and do not touch or vary the essence of membership , nor make several sorts thereof . nor do these distinctions and degrees of members in the church , arise simply from the nature of membership , or from any difference therein , but from something superadded unto membership : as an officer is not more a member then another ; but his dignity and place in the church ariseth from somewhat superadded unto membership , viz. his office. a man is not more a member then a woman , though he hath a power and priviledge in the church ( besides and above bare membership ) which the woman hath not . so men and women that partake of the lords table , are not more ( or more truely , properly , immediately and personally ) members of the church , then children are ; but they having attained to more and further qualifications , ( or to a greater degree of growth in the church ) are by rule admitted to mor priviledges then they thus in a kingdome or commonwealth , there are many sorts of subjects : some bear office , some not ; some admitted to election of officers , some not ; some capable of pleading and answering for themselves in law , some are not : but yet they all agree in the relation of a subject . and who ever made a specifical distinction of that , so as to say ( in that sense ) some are mediate subjects , and some immediate ? the same may be said of a family , where the youngest childe is as truely , properly , personally and immediately a member of the family , as the most grown person , though as to power and priviledges therein there be a vast difference . so in the natural body : all the parts are not an eye , an hand , &c. but all are members ; and the meanest part is as well a member , as the most noble , cer. . — . now there is the like reason , as to the general nature of membership , in ● church-society , which is set forth by that of a kingdome . fa●●ly , and of the natural body , in the holy scriptures . and so much for the discourse upon the second objection . in the third place , our brethren set down this position or opinion , as that which is objected against them , that a person who is a church-member may become no member by an act or defect of his own , without any church-act in censuring of him : and to 〈◊〉 is they say , most true it is th●t we do maintain this . and for proo● ther●●f ▪ they suppo●e 〈…〉 of an english fugitive , of one turned turk , who was never censured by any church . ans. the position objected against them , if it be pertinent to the matter in hand , must run thus ; that a person who is a church-member may become no member by an a●● or defect of his own , without any church-act in censuri●g of hi● and without 〈…〉 censure on his part ; or though he do not so much as deserve any church-censure , and be not censurable by any rule of gods word . for so the words ●f the synod ● in defence of the controverted fifth proposition ) do expresly speak , putting that as an 〈◊〉 that a person admitted member , and sealed by baptism , not cast out , nor deserving so to be , may ( the church whereof he was , still remaining ) become a non-member , and out of the church , and of the unclean world , pag. . now put but this into the objection here mentioned [ without desert of church-censure ] which is manifestly the case of the persons described in the synods fifth proposition ; and then all the discourse in answer to this objection ( wherein not a little confidence and spirit is expressed ) falls to the ground as not reaching the case in hand ; though besides there are sundry mistakes in it as may after appear . for , suppose it should be granted , that in churches where discipline is not in use , and in a case notorious , wherein a person does apparently lose the essentials of christianity ( as by turning turk or the like ) a man may be cut off from membership by his own apostacie and wickedness , though the church did not ( through her sinful neglect ) formally censure him . yet this on the other hand is also a sure and clear truth , that no act of a mans own , will or can cut him off from membership , but that which deserves a cutting off by censure , and for which the church should cut him off by censure if she did her duty . this is plain , because when a man is once in the church , he cannot be outed , till god out him : god does not out him , till some rule or appointment of his in his word does out him : but there is no rule that appoints any man to be put out of the visible church , or made as an heathen and publican , but for and upon such wickedness of his as is censurable by the church ; and in that case the rule does appoint and injoyn the church to censure him , or to put him away from among them by censure , mat. . . cor. . , . when some divines do so speak as if persons might be broken off from the church without a formal censure in some extraordinary cases ; the meaning is , not that a man doth by his own wickedness , be it never so notorious , immediately so become felo de se , or vn-member himself , as that the church hath nothing to do with him to censure him ; yes , she may and ought to censure him for his wickedness and apostacy ; and so if a church-member turn turk or papist , the church to which he belongs ought to lay him under censure for it . and for such a one to be a member till censured , i. e. a rotten member fit to be cut off , is no contradiction nor absurdity . see mr. cottons holiness of church-members , pag. . (e) and did all churches in the world do their duty , there should no man living , that ever was a member of a church yet in being , be looked upon as a non-member , but he that is so censured on excommunicated , at least unless some extraordinary and rare circumstances of a case do render the churches cognizance thereof impossible . but the meaning onely is , that where men have palpably and notoriously lost the essentials of christianity , and a church , through the sinful want or neglect of discipline , never looks after them ( onely by her doctrine declares against such ) but haply continues in that neglect from age to age , there the notoriousness of the case , and the evidence of the rule , does supply the defect of a judicial sentence , and the churches doctrinal declaration may be looked at as an implicite excommunication . and hence other churches may justly carry toward such as non-members : and hence also in the day of the reformation of such churches , after deep and long-continued corruptions , such persons may be set by without a formal censure . but what is all this to the children of our churches ? who being admitted in minority , in stead of notorious wickedness and apostacy , when grown up , do in some measure own the god and covenant of their fathers , and are neither cast out , nor deserve so to be ; whom no rule in all the scripture appointeth to be put out of the visible church : and hence t●ey stand and continue regular ( i. e. according to the appointment and allowance of the rule ) members of it , being neither excommunicate , nor by rule to be excommunicated . where shall we finde either scripture or sound reason to tell us , that these have cut themselves off from membership , or are n●w become non-members ? but to come to a plain and distinct close in this matter , we assert this position : that in churches wa●●ing in the order of the gospel , and exercising discipline according to the rules thereo● , no person can ( while he lives among them ) ▪ cease to be a member of the visible church but by excommunication , or , without a church-act in censuring him with the censure of excommunication . the sum of the proof of this , is , because we finde this way of cessation of membership ( viz. by excommunication ) plainly prescribed and appointed by the lord in scripture : and we finde not any other , while the church and the person continues in being [ see a more particular proof of it in the preface to mr. shepard's treatise of chur●h-membership of children , lately published ] but if any do affirm there is another way , it lies on them to shew and prove it . let us now consider whether that be done by all that is here further said . preface . when whitgift said , that papists and atheists might still remain members of the visible church , mr. parker tells him , that even a veritius would condemn him . and it is no new doctrine in the s●hools , to say , that , an heretical apostate is no more a member of the church of christ , then a wound , a s●re , a brand , is a member of a man ; as e●ery one knows that is mediocritèr doctus in scholasii●al divinity . therefore we conclude , that church-members may become no members by their own defection . ans. surely he that is but medi●critèr doctus in sch●lastical or ●●emical divinity , may easily know that here is the shew of an argument , or of authority of writers , wit● out the substan●e of either . for , when our divines against the papists do so often over say , that wicked or vnregenerate persons are but equivocally or improperly members of the church , as nails , ha●r , sores , and superflu●us hu ●urs , or as a wooden leg. a glass eye , &c. are members of the liuing body of a man ; they mean it properly , with reference to the invisible mystical church , or to the visible church considered in its internal spiritual living state (a) , not with reference to mens external standing ( or membership ) in the visible church : nor did they ever dream that men are by the want of internal gracious qualifications cut off from membership in the visible church , without any church-censure . it is well known , that they reckon hypocrites and secretly unregenerate persons ( as well as ●eretical apostates , or the openly-wicked ) to be but equivocaliy of the church ( viz. in ●omparison and contradistinction to the true and living members of the body of christ ; ●nd as ●aul di●tinguishes between israel , and them that are of israel , rom. . . and sayes , he is not a iew , i. e. not a jew indeed , and accepted in the sight of god , who is ●ut outwar●ly ●n● , rom. . , . ) but would you therefore say , that a close hypocrite un●e●bers hims●l● , and f●lls out of the visible church without any church-censure ? in the place here cited out of parker de pelit . eccles. lib. . cap. . pag. . verstius condemns bellarmine , because he affirmed such — ( ad ecclesias christi propri● dic●am reuerà pertinerè ) to be indeed of the true church . how strangely is this misapplied to the matter in hand (b) ? as if one should say , that all that want true sauing . faith have lo●t their church-membership without any censure , and then alledge for the proof of it the protestants doctrine , that the true mystical or catholick church consists onely of elect believers : how evident is it that this is not at rem ? for , as for an external membership in the church ( which is the matter that we have in hand ) what is more known , then that all our divines do unanimously acknowledge it to be the portion of multitudes that have not s●ving gra●e ? and that even such as have been born and brought up in the church , if they fall into manifest incorrigible wickedness , they should be removed out of the church by excommunication ; but otherwise they are still within ; although many of them be destitute of those inward qualifications that should render them living and true members of the church mystical . falsum est ( saith dr. ames , bel. enerv. tom . lib . cap. . ) internas vir●utes requir● ( i. e. absolute requiri ) à nobis ut aliquis sit in ecclesiâ quoad visiblem ejus statum . and see ames med. l●b . . cap. . thes. . they that are christians by proffession onely ( saith iunius ) are truely of the church , according to the external consideration thereof , though not according to the internal , wherein ●es the truth of christianity . animad . in bellar. de eccles. cap. . art. . and in cap. . art . he saith , we acknowledge there be griev●● sinners in this ( viz the visible ) church , in which if they were not ▪ we should in vain trouble our selues about their correcti●n and excommunication ; vid. calvin . institut . lib. . cap. . sect. , , . polan . 〈◊〉 . lib. . cap. . but it were a needless labour to cite many testimonies in so manifest a case . when whitgift had said , that the church is full of wicked persons drunkards , idolaters , papists , atheists &c cartwr●ght answers him ( as pa●ker in the very place here quoted notes ) that , that was because the discipline of christ was not 〈…〉 ; ●●ewing that he would have even such not to be left to their own self-felony ( if , being church-members they fall to such evils ) but to be cut off by christs appointed discipline . and cartwright in his second reply , part. . p. . upon that in cor. . . among other passages hath these words , it is one case of him that hath given his name to the gospel , & afterward slideth from that profession to idolatry ; and another of him that never gave it , but hath been from his infancy an idolater ; for the first cannot be severed from the church without solemn sentence of excommunication , see also pag. , , . but the preface addes : and we humbly conceiue that thus much is held forth by these scriptures , heb. . . joh. . . jud. . ans. that the sin of those who forsake church-assemblies , separate themselves from them , wander into wayes of heresie and apostacy , is grievous ( and consequently calleth for church-admonition , and incorrigibleness therein for excommunication ) this may be gathered from those scriptures ; but to gather thence , that such forsakers , separatisie and wanderers , do thereby become non-members , so as that the church should not , need not , or may not follow them with any censure , is a strange collection ; and would ( if granted ) at once overthrow all discipline . for what is more easie then for an offender to forsake the assembly , to separate himself , & c ? and then the church shall have no more to do with him ; so the process of discipline appointed in mat. . should never take place . what though there be no mention of church-censure in the texts alledged ? must we binde the holy-ghost to mention all truths and rules together in one text or context ? what the sin of such persons is , those texts shew ; but what discipline is to be used to church-sinners , this is held forth in other scriptures . if the apostle in iob. . . have reference to ebion and cerinthus , and such like hereticks ( as is commonly conceived : vid. magdeburg . centur. . lib. . p. ) surely he was not without care to have due testimony by church-censure born against them , yea when as he does so strictly injoyn all christians absolutely to avoid them , iohn ver . — . doth not that import an injunction to the churches unto which they did belong , to excommunicate them , if they had not already done it ? as when paul forbids them to eat with such an one , cor. . . he means it , as a consequent upon ( and so implying an injunction of ) church-censure . vid. dickson in a thes . . & in rom. . . & in tim. . preface . againe , how came esau to lose his membership ? we read not that he was excommunicate , therefore it remains that he discovenanted , and so dis-membered himself . and how came the children of abraham by keturah to lose their membership ? it was not by censure . ans. . should we thus reason , you would call for gospel-rules and proofs ; which we may with more reason do in this case , because proper excommunication is plainly and expresly ordained under the gospel : concerning the use of which , there is not so much clearness in the old testament . . the particular extraordinary revelation of gods minde concerning esau , together with his being denied the patriarchal blessing , of which the apostle saith [ he was rejected ] heb. . . may well be looked at as equivalent to an ordinary excommunication under the gospel . . the posterity of abraham by keturah , did in process of time lose their membership , by losing the essentials of true religion ; and to expect personal excommunication , when a whole people falls away to idolatry , and so becomes lo-am●● , is a vain thing . but it is a great mistake to think that the particular persons mentioned in genes . . , , . yea or their next generations did cease to be members of the visible church . they were providentially removed out of the land of canaan , which was reserved for israel , and were permitted by degrees to lose religion , which was by promise to be continued and established in the line of isaac and iacob , so as that in the time of moses ( the nations being by that time generally fallen to idolatry ) religion and worship was so fixed in the nation and church of israel , as that all that would serve god aright must become proselytes to it , which before that time was not necessary . but religion and salvation , and consequently church-membership , according to the domestick way of administration then used , did for a considerable time continue among the children of abraham by keturah , as the story of iob intimates ; he and his friends being justly conceived to have been partly of that stock . and concerning iethro , who was of midian , and so of keturah , see rivet on exod. . and on exod. . . preface . in like sort when persons under the gospel do not come up to the terms of the covenant , to shew themselves to be abrahams children , by holding forth his faith , and walking before the lord in simplicity and goaly sincerity , we suppose that they are justly deemed breakers of the covenant , and have justly put themselves out of that covenant which their parents made for them . ans. . the persons in question ( i. e. the persons described in the synods fifth proposition ) do in some degree hold forth their faith and godly walking , while they are professed christians , or professed believers and followers of the truth and wayes of god , wherein they have been educated from their inf●ncy ; do constantly attend the ordinances and worship of god ; live under , and do not cast off the government of christ in his cour●● , and when called thereto do readily profess their assent to the doctrine of fai●● , and consent to the covenant : do these ( putting all this together ) in no sort shew themselves to be abrahams children , by holding forth the faith of abraham and walking in his steps , i. e. in charitable and ecclesiastical reputation ? surely mr. cotton accounts such as these ( yea all the children of the faithful that do not grow up to apostacy and open scandal , or that are not excommunicable ) to continue in a visible profession of the covenant , faith and religion of their fathers ; as in those passages of his that are pointed to in the preface the l●●e synod may be seen . and where shall we finde ground in all the scripture to exclude such as these from being within the compass of the visible church , or the covenants thereof ? . if the meaning be , that they do not yet hold forth such an experimental work of faith , or lively discerning and exercise thereof , and so much of the power of godliness in their life , as may fit them for a comfortable approach to the lords supper : let it be shewed from the scripture , that the bare defect or want hereof is such a violation of the terms of the covenant , as puts men out of it . we know that every transgression , or falling stort of duty required in the covenant , is not accounted in scripture an absolute breach of the covenant ( or a forsaking and rejecting thereof ) such as for which god gives unto persons or people a bill of divorce . do but compare these persons in question , whom the hasty and rigid severity of man here pronounces to be justly deemed breakers of the covenant , and to have put themselves out of it , with those whom the holy , but merciful and gracious god does in scripture call and account such breakers of the covenant : see ier. . , . ezek. . — . deut. . , . chron . . king. . — . and he that would not cut down ( no not the barren ) fig ●ree , till further patience and means were used : he that wai●ed on the iews ( whose entrance into the church was by a membership received in infancy ) in the ministry of christ and the apostles , with as clear light of the gospel as ever shone , till utter incorrigible rejection thereof appeared , before he accounted them broken off , rom. . — . with act . , . & . , . & . , . thes. . , . he that followed ierusalem with means and dispensations of grace , till they s●oned him away , mat. . , &c. can we imagine that he will reckon our poor children to be broken off as soon as they are adult , if then presently they do not bold forth fitness ●●r the lords table ? yea , when many of them are it may be secretly following after god , though haply they have not yet attained so much as to make their approach to that ordinance comfortable ; or have not yet the confidence to put forth themselves thereunto ? surely the lord does not make so light a matter of his holy covenant and se●l ( whatever men through mis-guided apprehensions may do ) as to enter into a solemn covenant with children , take them into his church , and seal up their taking in before men and angels , and then let them goe out so easily , or drop off one knows not how . . if they have justly , i. e. meritoriously put themselves out of the covenant , or so violated the covenant on their part , as to deserve a putting out , yet still one might ask , how they come to be actually put out , seeing the church hath not proceeded , nor seen cause to proceed to any censure ? but if it be indeed so , that they do deserue ( i. e. in fo●o ecclesia ; we speak not of desert in the sight of god ) to be put out ; if they may be justly ●●e●ed breakers of the covenant , and are guilty of that which justly puts them out , then it is the churches duty actually to put them out , or cut them off : for ecclesiastical justice , as well as civil , re●dreth unto all their due and just deserts : and those that are ( ecclesiastically ) breakers of the covenant ought to be cut off , gen. . . hence it will follow upon these principles , that we ought to cast out and cut off all the adult children of our churches that are not come up to full communion ; which thing , how horrid it is to think of , let the reader judge : or be it that we forbear any formal censure , and content our selves onely doctrinaly to declare , that all such children are put out and broken off , ( which doctrin● , declaration is indeed contained in the assertions of our brethren ) yet the harshness and horrid severity of such a declaration , is li●●le inferiour to the other , and very contrary to the patience and grace of jesus christ expre●●d in the scriptures . preface . wherefore that all may know , that there is neither danger nor singularity in this our assertion , that a church member may possibly become no member , wi●hout any act of the church in formal censuring of him , give us lea●e to pro●uce some testimonies to prove it . iudicious and blessed dr. ames ●a●th , that in case of pertina●ious separati●n su●h persons , though they may be of the invisible , yet they are not to be accounted members of the v●si●le church . ans. . suppose you should prove that a church-member may [ possibly ] become no member without a censure ; yet we are still utterly to seek of proof that ●●e children in question do so . . how can a separation be properly pertinacious and incurable , or appear so to be , till the means of church discipline have been used ? . ames his meaning may be , that such are not to be accounted lawful and approved members , as in the close of that chapter ( de consc. lib. . cap. . ) he saith , ● sch●smatical church is not to be accounted for a lawful and approved church . . we shall not deny but that some good divines do seem to hold , that in some cases of notorious wickedness , and apostacy , and so in case of absolute and universal schism ( of which ames there spe●ks ) especially in places and churches where discipline is not used ; men may be looked at as non-members , though the church did neglect to pass a formal censure : wherein we shall not trouble our selves with being their opponents . it sufficeth us , that in churches regularly using discipline , there is no ordinary way whereby offenders lose church-membership , but by excommunication : and that none can lose it while they live , that are not guilty of such evil as is censureable , or is matter of excommunication ; which the persons in question are not . another testimony here alledged , is from mr. cotton in his way of the churches , p. . where he saith , that many in churches have cut themselves off . ans. had the whole sentence been set down , every reader would have seen the impertinency of the allegation , as to the persons and case in question . mr. cot●●ns word● are these : many in other churches have ●ut themselves off from the covenant by their notorious wickedness and profaneness . and withall in the same place he addes , that arelapsed church , with all the members of it , are bound to renew their covenant in order to reformation : which shews , that they were not wholly cut off before , though their membership was but by being born in the church , and baptized , for of that he there speaks . we doubt not , but among the members of such relapsed churches might be found many much more degenerate ; then those described in the synods fifth preposition ; much less therefore are those discovenanted , but being in covenant , are bound to renew it in order to full communion . the next testimony here produced , is from those words in the discourse of church-covenant , pag. . viz. that if men had not promised , and also performed in some measure of truth , the duties of faith and obedience unto god , they had not taken hold of the covenant , but had discovenanted themselves , notwithstanding all the promises of god unto their fathers and others . thus though god promised abraham to be a god to him , and to his seed in their generations , genes . . yet the ishmaelites and edomites descending from abraham , were discovenanted by not promising nor performing those duties of faith and obedience which god required on the peoples part . now if this ( saith the apologist ) were truth in the year . ( as it then had the approbation of the elde●s hereabouts ) we see no reason why it should not be truth in the year . for , veritas in omnem partem sui semper eadem e●t . either this was a mistake then , or else it is a truth at this day . ans. let the words here cited , be c●ndidly interpreted , and they contain nothing repugnant to the present doctrine of the synod . for , it is true , that if men do not promise , or do not perform in some measure ( yea in some measure of truth , i. e. visibly , and in charitable and ecclesiastical reputation ) the duties of faith ▪ and obedien●e into god , they do discovendat themselves , i. e. they do it meritoriously , and do what lies in them ●n th●● part to destroy their membership : and ●hey so do it , as will inferre the absolute loss of their membership , viz. either by formal excommunication , if you speak of particular persons , and if the church do her duty ; or by the lor●s giving them a bill of divorce , if you speak of whole bodies of people , as here the ish●●cel●●s 〈◊〉 a e●ountes are spoken of . but what is all this to the children of our churches , de●●rib●d in the synod● fifth proposition , who do promise , and do in some ●easure though not in so full , a measure as were to be desired ) perform the duties of faith and obedience . this might be true in . and in . also . and yet our assertion may be true , and yours false notwithstanding . let our children appear to be such as the edo●ates and ishmaelites were ; or let them appear to be such as do in no measure ( yea , i. ● no meas●re of truth , i. e. as to church-visibility , or charitable hope ; for the church ●●ng● no further ) perf●rm the duties of faith and obedience , and we will with you plead , to have them put out of the church . but till then , i. e. as long as they do in some measure ( though yet but in a small and initiall measure ) perform the duties , and retain the essentials of christianity , or of faith and obedience ; they continue ( yea regularly continue ) in the church , for ought that hath yet appeared , either in . or in . we are loth to take notice of the insulting expressions that are here used , which are too-too uncomely ; especially there where th●●●fth commandment requireth special honour : but the intelligent reader will easily see the vanity of this con●●dence , to bring a testimony concerning the discovenanting of the ishmaelites and edomites , ( for they are expre●ly instanced in , as the explication of the not-promising , nor performing the duties of fa●●rand obedience intended by the author ) and then to triumph in it , as if that proved the discovenanting of our hopefull and non-excommunicable children , or thwarted the doctrine of the synod . when it is here added , [ this is the main thing wherein we dissent from the major part of the synod ] if by [ this ] be meant the assertion which is before expressed ; viz. that a church-member may possibly become no member , without any act of the church in formal censuring of him : then it is a great and ●trang● mi●re●resentation to say , that this is the main po●ut of your dissent . for , there be them that do ●eartily consent to all the concl●sions of the synod , and yet d● hold , and did in the synod express as much , that in some notorious cases , and where the church neglects her duty ( as hath been before said ) persons may be broken off , and looked at as non-members , though not formally censured ; or that a church-member may possibly , in some cases , become no member , without a formal censure : the reader therefore is greatly mis-led , and mis-informed , when he is told that this is the main point of our dissent . but when you a●●ert , that the children in question are become no members , or that persons , who were before members , do become no members as soon as ever they are adult , meerly by want of fitness for full communion , though they neither have not deser●e to have any church-censure pa●led upon them : this we confess is a main point wherein you dissent from the synod , and ( we suppose ) from scri●ture , and sound reason too . preface . here let us adde the words of mr. cotton , in his excellent treatise of the holiness of church me●bers , which are these following : [ such as are born and baptized mem●ers of the church , are not cruelty continued and confirmed members , unless when they grow up to years , they do before the lord and his people prayes their repentance and faith in ie●us chr●st ] answ. it is manifest , that by confirmed members , all along in that book , mr. cotton●eane● ●eane● such as are admitted to ●u● communi●n , or to the lords supper , and voting , ( and so he d●th expressly explain himself pag. . ) and for that , it is well known , we stand ●ully for the same qualifications that mr cotton intendeth according to h●●●erm of di●cipli●e , cap. ● sect. . the word [ continued ] is indeed added in pag . ( though not so in pag. 〈…〉 that book ; but it is added in a copulative way [ continued and confirmed ] w●ere all the parts must be taken together , to make up the truth of such an axiome . besides that the p●r●ons in question do make so●e profession of faith and repentance , i e. in an initial and educational way , so as sufficeth to their continuance in the visible church , though it may not at present suffice to full communion . mr. cotton was farre from conceiving that such non-scandalous persons as are the subject of our question are to be cut off , or looked upon as cut off from continuance in the church ; as ( besides what is cited of his in the synods preface ) may appear plainly out of this very treatise ( which is well called by our brethren an excellent treatise ) of the holiness of church-members ; for pag. . men ▪ ●oning a distinction of mr. ruther●urds , that a church may be termed no church , no spouse jure & meritò , & quoad vocationem passivam , in respect of bad deserving , and their not answering to the call of god , on their parts ; and yet the same church remain de 〈◊〉 , ●or aliter , & quoad vocationem det activam , the spouse and bride of c●rist : he sai●● , this distinction i can admit , if it be understood of a church hat hath formerly answered the call of god , and submitted to the ministry of the gospel , at least in outward propession of the fundamentals of sound doctrine , and pure worship : for such a chur●h , though they or ●heir children may afterward degenerate , and go a wher●ng from god in doctrine and worship , yet god in his patience and bounty is not wont so ●con to cast off ●hem , as they cast off him the next generation after 〈◊〉 ●e● , a ●horing from go● , and f●rs●ck the lord god of their fathers , and served baalim , yet still the lord accounted them his people , and sent them iudges and prophets to restore and recover them . and pag , . he mentions distinctly by way of consectary from the proposition here cited by our brethren , two or three sorts of persons w●o are not to be continued in the church● though born and baptized in it ; viz. . the grosly ignorant of the first principles and foundations of religion — . persons notoriously scandalous for any gross crime , as i●latry , adultery , &c. but not a word of such an intere●ce as our brethren s●em to make , viz. the discontinuance or unchurching of such a sort of persons as are the subject of our question . and it is observable all along in that book , that he pleads not for the un-membering of any that are once in the church , yea though they came in but by a membership received in infancy ( for of such he often expresly speaks , and such were the members of those churches he disputes upon in answer to his opponents ) but onely such as are scandalous and wicked , and deserve excommunication , and he would have them also un-membered by excommunication , and not by a self-felony onely : see pag , , , , , , . preface . renowned parker , steaking of the interpretation of those words [ laying on of hands ] in heb . . cites many judicious writers , whose judgement he expresseth in words to this purpose ; that they who were baptize in minority , when they are grown up , after that the church had approved their faith by the symbol of imposition of hands they were admitted members of the church : this was according to sound doctrine in the primitive times ( as parker saith . ) now we demand , how they can be admitted as members ▪ who are already as compleat , and perfect members as any in the chur●h ? but the ancient doctrine was , that children who were baptized in minority , after they shall come to pro●ess their faith so as to be accepted of the church , may be admitted as members : therefore according to the ancient doctrine , such children are not as compleat and perfect members as any in the church . answ. whether the words [ tanquam membra admittehantur ] be parkers own words or calvins ( for he speaks as if he cited only calvins words ; yet we ●inde not those expressions used by calvin either on heb. . . or in his institutions , de confirmatione , though in both places is the substance of the thing which parker alledgeth from him ) the matter is not great . it is manifest from the whole discourse , that parker is there speaking of such as are admitted to full communion ▪ as we call it . if he there used the term [ members ] for persons admitted to the lords table , and to all church-priviledges , it is no harder phrase , then hath been used in this country for many years , yet that argues not that we do , or that parker did think children to be no members before . it is observed of the ancients . that they sp●ke more securely before the rise of pelagius ; men are less curious in expression , when they speak about points of which no controversie is moved , and wherein their judgements are otherwise sufficiently known . as what is more abudantly and univers●lly agreed on among all our divines , then this , that the children of believers are members of the church , or a part of it ? parker , within six lines of the place cited , calls them [ in ecclesiâ nati ] born in the church ; and opposeth them to [ extranei ] i. e. to such as are without ▪ dr. ames gives it as the doctrine of the protestants , the infants of the faithful , unless they were to be accounted members of the church , they cu●● not to be bapti●ed , vrsin and pareus say . omnes iique soli &c. all and onely th●●e are to be baptized by christs command , who are his disciples ( mat. . . ) i. e. those that are , and one to be accounted members of the visible church , whether they be adult persons professing faith and repentance , or infants born in the church . again , the infants of christians do as well as the adult belong to the covenant and church of god , and are therefore to be baptized , because the whole church ought to be baptized . c. techet . explicat . pag. . this truth is joyntly 〈…〉 protestant a●d reformed churches , as appears in the harmony of their confessions ; the children of t●e faithful are gods peculiar people and in the church of god , ( 〈…〉 , pag . ) reckoned in the number of gods people , ( bohemian 〈◊〉 , pag. . ) god doth together with the parents account their posterity also to be of the church , ( f●●nc c. ●●mon , p●g . ) they condemn the anabaptists , who hold tha● 〈◊〉 ●e no● 〈◊〉 the church ●f god , ( confession of auspurg , pag. . ) infants belong to the covenant an● church of god , as well as the adult , saith the pal●tinate catechism , que●● . ● . now ●●is being so , that it is the manifest doctrine of all our divines , that children are me●bers ●f the church ; and neither did they imagine , that when ●d●lt they drop ●ff by a self ●●lony , or we know not how : for when erasmus had said , that ch●l●ren bei●g grown 〈◊〉 they being askt , would not sta●d to what had been promised in their behalf , they ●ere to be le●t to themselves : calvin 〈◊〉 it as the saying of a man not wel exercised in ch●rch-government (h) . see also chemnit . exam. conc. trid. par . . de baptis . can. . & de confirmat . sub can. . whose words in the former of these places , the rea●er may find engli●●ed in the beginning of mr shepards treatise ●bout children●●ely ●●ely printed . and cartwright to ●●at question , what are the duties of the rest of the church that are pres●nt at a c●i●des baptisme ? answers , . to rejoyce and be glad at ●he increase of gods church — when the childe come●h to age to do such duties as one member ●w●●h to another : he did not think its memb●rship ceased with infancy , but ( saith he ) when it cometh to age , such duties are to be do●e to it as one member oweth to another . hence we say , is it rational so to und●r●t●nd parker or calvin , as if they did think ( or approved it as sound doctrine in others to think ) that they who were baptized in minority , when after they are grown up , they have approved their faith , they are then first admitted me●bers , as if they were no members of the church before ? as the reader would think that that were the scope a●d sense of the testimony here cited . but to cite shreds●f ●f passages in authers in a sense contrary to those auth●rs known and declared judgement , is very injurious both to them and to the reader . he that reads what this preface here saith , would think that it is the iudgement of many judicious writers cited by parker , that children do then first enter into church-members●ip when their f●ith is approved by the church , after they are grown up , and that they are not members at all before that : when as it is most certain , and evident , that neither parker , nor any judicious writer cited by him , nor any one heretofore approved for a judi●ious writer , eit●er ancient or m●dern , did indeed so judge , but the contrary . and parkers words are clearly intended in another sense , viz. with reference in full communion . and so speaking of the very same matter in the first book of his ecclesiast . ●elit . cap. . he saith , that in the reformed churches the adult are ex●mined by the presbytery , approved by the consent of the people , and received by the wh●le church as members of the●r communion in a special manner , and so are as it were confirmed before they be admitted to the l●rds supper ; where [ members of their communion in a special manner ] is the same with [ members in full communion ] in our language : and so ●is words , together with the known practice of the reformed churches , do plainly confirm our distinction between initiated members and member , in f●● . communion ; but they are far from int●nding or holding forth either a denial of childrens membership , or a cessation thereof as soon as they become adult . as for the inference that is here made from parkers te●●imony ; therefore according to the ancient doctrine such children are not as compleat and perfect members as any in the church an● if his words do ●old in the s●nse in w●ich they are here alledged , then children are not onely members●s ●s any in the church , but they are not me●bers at all , or non-me●bers , seeing they are not ( it seers ) admitted membe●s , till when adult they have made their pr●fe●●●on . as for their being compleat and perfect members ▪ it s well known we say and hold that they are not compleat or perfect in point of communion , or priviledge , but onely in regard of the essence or relation of membership , i. e. they are properly and compleatly within the church , and not half in , and half out . to be ( ●ccording to divine institution ) within the church , is to be a member of the church , as the book ( before which this pref●ce is set ) well owns , pag. 〈…〉 any man ●●ew us one or●h●dox divine , or judicious writer , before or i● parkers dayes , that ever said that the children of the fai●●ful are ( either w●ile infants , or when ●dult , suppo●ing them not excommunicate nor deserving so to be ) not within the church . but with●l we hold , and so did parker , and the reformed churches , that ●●ere are many within the church , who may not ●ave co●pleat or ju●● communion in all the priviledges ●●ereof , and so are not compleat or perfect members in that ●ense , and ●word medu● . lib. . cap. . thes. . it is not we but you , that will have children ( 〈◊〉 l●ast all adult c●●ldren ) to be as compleat , a●d perfect members ( in this sense ) a● any in the church , or else to be no members at all , seeing you ac●nowl●dge none that are adult to be members unless they be in full communion . it is ●ur●●er added ; that when they are adult , in case they do not joyn unto the church , then they do not retain their members●ip which ●hey 〈…〉 minority n●w to joyn to the church is the act of one that is not j●yned , or is not a member ; so that unless , they 〈◊〉 themselves to be not members ( or unless they own thems●lves to ●●ve lost their membership ) they do not retain their member●●ip ; this we confess we do not understand . but so much for the discour●e upon the third objection . in the answer to the fourth objection , there is an high profession of much zeal for church care and watch to be extend●d tow●rd children , and much cle●rness therein ( even as the light at noon , and as if it were written with the beams of the sun ) so as that the reader would expect to finde very ample ●●tisf●ction in that matter ; but when it comes to , it ●●lls flat to no more but this ; that the watch over them is to be mediate according to the state of their membership : the church is to see that the parents ●● their duty toward their ●h●ld●en now we demand whether this be any more then the church should extend to a negro , or indian living in the family of one of their brethren , for should they not see that he do his duty toward him , and that in reference to the things of rel●gion ? yea , we might further ask whether this mediate watch ( viz. by seeing that the parents do their duty ) doth not belong as much to children when they are rejected and dis●●rne● by the church , as our brethren would have them ? and what shall become of children when their parents are dead ( as how many f●therle●s and motherless children are amo●g us ? ) or farre removed , and when children are sui juris , and not under the wings of their parents ? and why also should not baptism and catechizing ( as well as other church-benefits ) be dispensed onely mediately●nd ●nd not immediately unto children ? the reader may here see that the difference about 〈…〉 and immediate membership is more then a notion , it contains under it a thing of great moment . this mediate membership is made a medium to put our poor children from under the govern●e●t of christ , a●d to set them ( in their own persons ) as lamos in a large place . for by this the church hath nothing to do with them , nor can put forth any act ( e●●er of watch or censure ) immed●ately upon them , but upon their parents onely . but that church-watch ▪ government , no discipline is to be extended and administred to our children person●lly and immedi●a●ly ( i. e. according as in regard of age , and understanding they are capable there f ; viz. instruction and inspection , and that in an official way , even in younger years , a●d formal censures when adult , if they f●ll into such offences as do need ●nd deserve the same ) the reader may finde confirmed in the sy●●ds arguments , and in the following defence thereof (k) . haply the a●sertion 〈…〉 mediate church-care , is ●●eltered u●d●r that clause [ those ch●ldren that are in minority . ] b●● . . much help ( by instructions ▪ counsels , warnings repro●fs , exhortations , &c. ) and that in an authoritative way , and upon the account of their memberly relation , may be administred unto children thems●lves immediately in their own p●rsons ( besides looking to parents that they do their du●ies to them ) even while they are in their minori●y , though not yet capable of publick censures . . they are in the same state and relation to the church ( though not of the same capacity ) when in minority and when adult : if therefore ( not because of their natural incapacity , but ) because of the nature of their membership , onely mediate , and no immediate church-care , watch and government belong to them , while in minority , neither doth it belong to them when adult : and therefore this notion excludes all our children , both younger and elder from being under any church-government immediately in their own persons . so that let them run on in never such vile courses , the church cannot deal with them but with their parents onely ; and yet the case may often so be , that the parents are neither blameable for their misc●rriages , nor able to reform the same . but as mediate as their member●●ip is , here is somewhat added , that shall touch these adult children themselves ; and what is that ? why , i● when they 〈◊〉 be adult they do not bring forth fruits of repentance , and faith , then the church is to dis●wn them , at having no part in the lord. ans. . is this according to the spirit of christ , or like the lords proceeding with his covenant-people in the scripture , presently to disown them , and cast them off , if some evil fruits , nay if want of g●od fruits be 〈◊〉 in them , then at first step to call them loam●i , and tell them they have no part in the lord ? hath the lord vouchs●fed to take these persons into his g●orious cove●●nt , and ●o real it to them in baptism before men and angels ; and doth it come but to this ? that if poor childre● , as soon as the day of ripe understanding d●wns upon them , do not bring 〈◊〉 the fruits of faith and repentance , yea such fruits as may sit them for fel● communion , they are then presently declared to be discovenanted , and to be turned d●ift as those who have no part in the lord ? it is true , the most hopeful childe , yea the best of us all , might justly be discovenanted by the lord , should he strictly mark what is amis● ▪ and deal acc●rding to our deserts ▪ but he is graciously pleased not to proceed with 〈◊〉 severity , but with much patience and long suffering towards those whom he once take , into covenant . and who or what is man , that he should be more holy then the lord ! let but that one scripture be looked upon ( among many other ▪ ) touching the barren fig-tree , which is here cited , as if it gave some countenance to this present disowning , in case of barrenness . the lord comes in the time and season of fruit , and findes none , and yet he waits another year after that , and a third after that ( i. e. a long time , and with great demonstration of patience ) before he speaks of cutting it down ; and then the vine-dresser ( acted therein by the spirit of god ) cries ( not cut it down presently , but ) lord , let it alone one year more ( i. e. till it appear utterly hopeless , and incureable ) that i may dig about it , and dung it : he chooseth rather to make it a subject of labour and culture , then to case himself by rid●●ng his hands of it . also that parable points to the people of the iews , to and among whom chr●st preached : now the following story of the new testament tells us , that christ and his apostles w●ited on them , till they appeared altogether incureable and inc●rrig●●e , and till their incureable barre●ness dis●overed it self by p●sitive fruits of wicked opposing and rejecting the gos●el before they were cut down , or broken off : and the ap●●tles when they preached to the adult , and yet impenitent iews , did not tell them they had no part in the lord , but on the contrary expressly told them , they had a part in the lord , and in his covenant-dispensations , and urged that as an argument to ●raw them to repent and believe , though they had not yet done it , acts . . , . acts . , . they were farre from being an occasion of making them cease from fearing the lord , by telling them they had no part in him . . suppose any of these children when adult do bring forth some fruits of faith and repentance ▪ ( as those , des●ribed in the synods fifth proposition , can hardly be denied in charitable reputation to do ) though not so full and ripe fruits as were to be desired , and haply not such , as themselves do finde encourage●ent to approach to the lords table ; what shall be done to these ? shall they be owned ▪ or disowned ? are they in the church , or out ? if in , why is baptism denied to their children ? if out , how co●e they so to be ? or where doth god in his word say , or allow us to say to such hopeful young men and women , as through grace many of our children are ( though not yet in full communion ) that they have no part in the lord ? . w●at is t●is disow●ing ? and where shall we have scripture-warrant for such a church-disowning as is not excommuni●ation ? for that , our bret●ren see not warrant to proc●ed unto ; but 〈◊〉 down this rule [ the church is to disown them , or having no part in the lord ] if any man speak ( especi●lly if he speak rules according to w●ic● the church is to practise ) let him speak as the oracles of god. it were needful that this disowning ( contradistinguished to excommunication ) should be cleared from thence . admonition and excommunication we hear plainly of in the scripture , and in orthodox divinity ; but a disowning , that is a kinde of publick church-censure , and yet is neither admonition , nor excommunication , this seems to be a new invented piece of discipline . we demand , whether this disowning be not a putting one out of the church , that was before in it ? if so , what is it but excommunication , which the apostle expresseth by that [ put away from among you , cor. . . ] if not , is it not a vain thing ? the person whom you are about to disown is either within the church , or with●ut ; a member , or not a member (l) if he be within , why may you not judge and censure him with the censure of cutting off , or casting out , i. e. excommunication ( cor. . , . ) there being cause for it ? if he be without , why should you disown him , any more then you do non-members , or such as were never joyned to the church ? would it not seem a strange and vain thing , if the church should put forth a solemn publick act to disown a company of non-members that are without the church ? to what purpose should this be ? how acts . . here cited in the margin , should make for this disowning , we understand not . peter there tells simon magus , that he was farre from having any part or lot in the matter of conferring the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost , which he never had , but ambitiously aspired after ; but doth not declare that he had discovenanted himself , or had lost his membership which he once had . and whatever became of simon magus afterward ( of which the scripture is silent , and stories uncertain ) there is no ground to think , that he was then put out of the church , or lost his membership . but rather the apostle ( by grave apostolical rebuke and counsel ) applies himself to him , as to one in the church , to bring him to repentance , and to that sincerity of grace , which he yet wanted , vers● , . as for the reason here rendred , why excommunication agrees not to the children in question , viz. because it is applicable to none but those who have been in full communion . this is but a begging of the question , and carrieth not evidence of truth with it . 〈◊〉 excommunication ( i. e. the utmost censure , so called ) doth not properly or nextly debarre or exclude from full communion , but it cutteth off from membership ( rendreth a person as an heathen and publican , mat. . . ) and so from that communion that belongeth to a member as such . when a person that hath stood for some time admonished , is afterward , for his contumacy , excommunicated , it is not excommunication that doth immediately and properly put him out of full communion , for that was done by admonition ; whereby , being ecclesiastically unclean , he was justly suspended from eating of the holy things : but excommunication cuts him off from membership , which admonition did not . hence it is not full communion , but membership that doth properly , and formally render a person a subject capable of excommunication : hence it agrees to all that are members though they have not been in full communion ; and every member hath some communion though not full communion , and therefore may be excommunicated . paul when he is speaking of the churches judicial proceeding , and that unto excommunication , makes it applicable to all that are within , cor. . . if in full communion , yet church-judgement f●lls upon them not as in full communion , but as within . the casting out of cain and ishmael , the cutting off of the born members of the church of israel from their people ( an expression often used ) the casting out of the children of the kingdome , matth. . . do at least by consequence , and by proportion , and parity of reason , shew that the children in question may be cast out , and cut off from the church by the censure of excommunication . as for that term of [ formal ] excommunication , we know not that we are limited to this or that precise form of words , in excommunicating one sort or other ; but the formal nature of the thing ( viz. a putting of one out of the church that was before in it ) this well agrees to the persons in question . we pass by the fifth and last objection ( which chargeth our dissenting brethren with weakness , ignorance , &c. ) as containing nothing that is argumentative to the matter in hand . neither do we own the objection , unless it be against our selves , who are ( as we have acknowledged in our preface to the synods conclusions ) poor , feeble , frail men , desiring not to trust unto , or boast of any strength of our own ( which is none at all ) but onely to the strength and grace of jesus christ , withall acknowledging that grace of his , whereby he doth vouchsafe sometimes to reveal his truth unto babes . we tender onely scriptures and scripture-arguments , for that which we maintan , desiring that they may be impartially considered , without challenging to our selves , or pleading for the reputation of strength or wisdome . in disputes of this nature , it is impossible but that e●ch part should look upon the arguments on either hand , as strong or weak , according as they are perswaded . but can we not deal with arguments , without being supposed to reflect upon the persons each of other ? we suppose you do not see sufficient strength in our arguments ( for then you would judge as we do ) and in that sense you do impute weakness to them . in the like sense do we unto yours , but desire to do it without any harsh reflexions upon the persons of our brethren , and without liftings up in our selves , who have cause enough to lye in the dust before god and man. but here our brethren take occasion to set down the reasons of their dissent from the synod : which make up a second main part of this preface . the consideration whereof we shall now address our selves unto . reason . the synod did acknowledge , that there ought to be true saving faith in the parent , according to the judgement of rational charity , or else the ch●l●e ought not to be baptized . but they would not let this ( which themselves acknowledged ) be set down , though our vnity lay at the stake for it . answ. the regular receiver of the truth , is one that divides the hoof , as well as chews the cud ; one that doth not take all in a lump , but distinguishes , and rightly divides between things that differ . we are to distinguish here , . between faith in the being or first beginning of it , whereby one is , or is reputed to be in the state of a believer , the charitable , judgement whereof runs upon a great latitude ; and faith in the special exercise of it , whereby one is fit for that special communion with , and active fruition of christ , which is the scope of the lords supper : unto the visible discovery whereof , more lively fruits , and more experienced operations of faith are requisite . . distinguish between the internal grace it self , which is required of them that partake of sacraments in the sight of god ; and those external signs of that grace which the church is to proceed upon in her admission of persons unto sacraments . these two distinctions being attended , and rightly applied , will help to clear both the truth it self in this matter from mistakes , and the proceedings of the synod from those uncomfortable reflexions that are here cast upon them . the former of these distinctions , and the application thereof to the matter in hand , we have in dr. ames ; (a) children ( saith he ) are not to be admitted to partake of all church-priviledges , untill first increase of faith do appear , but from those which belong to the beginning of faith , and entrance into the church , they are not to be excluded . where the doctor distinguisheth between ( initium fidei ) the beginning of faith ; and ( incrementum fidei ) the increase or growth of faith , and makes the former to suffice unto baptism , but the latter to be requisite to full communion , or to the lords supper . an initial faith entitleth to the seal of initiation , but a grown faith ( i. e. a faith of some growth , though yet farre short of perfection , and needing to grow still ) a faith growing up unto some sensible and lively exercise , is requisite unto the sacrament of growth and fruition . they were believers , yet but initial believers that iohn baptized , in the first dawning or beginning of the gospel , mark . — . the apostles constantly baptized persons upon the first beginning of their christianity , but the lords supper followed after , as annexed to some progress in christianity . the latter distinction also is obvious and necessary . who ought to come , and , who ought to be admitted , are two distinct questions , say vrsin , and (c) parem . we grant that true saving faith and repentance is required by god of those that partake of sacraments for themselves , or for their children : but the question is , what are the external signs and tokens of that grace , which an ecclesiastical charitable reputation may proceed upon ; for we can go no further then the judgement of rational charity ( as here our brethren acknowledge ) and that proceeds upon outward probable signs , leaving the infallible knowledge of the heart to god onely . the distinction between a iew outwardly , or a visible jew that hath praise of ( or approbation among ) men , and inwar●ly●●at ●●at hath praise of god , is a scripture-distinction , rom. . , . and is necessary to be attended h●re ; for , de ●ecultis non judicat ecclesia , cor. . . and here also we conceive , that the same strictness , as to outward signs , is not necessary unto a charitable probable jud●ement or hope of the being of faith , or of that initial faith that entitleth to bap●ism , as is unto the like judgement of the spe●ial exer●ise of faith that is requisite to the lords supper ; there be many things that do both really , and in the just reputation of men , hinder the exercise of grace , and so hinder from the lords supper , which yet do not away● charitable hope of the being of grace , or the state of a believer . if a man be under offence in the church , he is suspended from the lords supper ( till a renewing or exercise of repentance do appear ) yet we still repute him to be in the state of a believer , or to have the being of grace . now then to apply this to the synods proceedings , for answer to what is here s●id , viz. [ that the synod did acknowledge there ought to be true saving faith in the parent to the judgement o● rational charity , or else the childe ought not to be baptized ; yet could not be prevailed with to set this down ●●r a conclusion . ] . we did and do acknowledge , that in ecclesiastical charitable reputation , there must be faith , ( yea true saving faith ; those words hurt us not , provided they be not ▪ so strained , as to turn charity into r●gid se●erity ) i. e. the being of faith whereby a person is accounted to be in the state of a believer ( baptism being , as was in the synod alledged , annexed properly to the state of a believer , or to the covenant-state of a person , and not to the present act or exercise of faith ; and hence though there be no parent alive to act for the childe , and the childe cannot at present act for it self , yet that hinders not its baptism : ) but we did not acknowledge , it was necessary there should be faith in the lively and special exercise of it , such as we justly require an appearance of unto rational charity , in order unto full communion , which is that our brethren aim at , and stand for , in all whose children they will have baptized . and to set down a conclusion in general terms , when the nature of the case calls for distinct●ess , is not rational . our main work was to consider of , and pitch upon such external signs and characters , as the churches charity might and should proceed upon in this case . we all own , that onely visible believers , or visible saints , are to have their children baptized ; but the question is , who are to be accounted visible believers ; and we say that those described in the f●●●h proposition are of that nu●b●r . to have put it in such a general term , as [ those that profe●s , or hold forth faith and repentance unto the satisfaction of rational charity ] had been to leave the matter as obscure as we found it , and in stead of giving light to the churches ( which is the end of synods ) to leave the● in the dark without any help to discover their way : for still they are to seek , who those are that are to be accounted professors of faith and repentance , and what profession that is , that charity may accept in order to their childrens baptism . besides , it is well known , that those expressions [ of holding forth faith and repentance , &c. ] have been constantly so taken in this country , as to hold forth the qualifications required for full communion : and that was it which our brethren strove for , so to screw up the expre●sions for bap●ism , as that all that have their children baptized must unavoidably be brought to the lords table , and to a power of voting in our churches , wherein we cannot consent to them : and however we are charged with corrupting the churches , yet we believe time will shew that that principle that over inlargeth full communion , or that will have all of whom we can have any hope that they have any good in the● , to come to the lords table ; this ( we say ) will prove a church-corrupting principle , and those that have laboured to keep up the p●rtition here ▪ will be found to have been s●riously studious of the parity and safety of the churches . . but when it is 〈◊〉 that the synod could not be brought to express what themselves acknowledge 〈◊〉 that the parent whose childe i● baptized must have faith to the judg●ent of charity , or which is all one must be a visible believer : we desire it may be considered with what truth this can be 〈◊〉 for it was offered ●gain and again to express it 〈◊〉 plai●ly , and particularly , if that would have satisfied as th●se that were present in those agitations ( too long here to be inserted ) may re●e●ber , and the proposition made ●as refused by some of themselves that dissented ; but it is competently expressed in the synods result , as now printed ; for when we limit the baptizable to confederate visible believers , and their infant-seed , in propos. . & . and then say , that those described in propos. , , & . are to have their children baptized , doth it not imply , that the parents , there described are confederate visible believers , unless you will make us to speak inconsistencies ? again , it is 〈◊〉 made one argument to prove the fifth proposition , that the parents there described are confederate visible believers . and do we not then express this , that the parent whose child● is to be baptized must be a confederate visible believer ? and is not that all one , as to have true faith in the judgement o● charity ? how then is it here said , that the synod would not let this which themselves acknowledged , be expressed , though our vnity lay at the stake for it ? surely such misrepresentation of things with so much injurious reflexion should be forborn by godly brethren . if that would have vnited us , to own that the parent must be a visible believer , it was owned , and granted toties quo●ies , and is contained in the propositions and arguments , as any intelligent reader will easily see but the disagreement lay here , that your selves would not consent to any such acceptation , or to any such characters or expressions of a visible be●●ever , but such as should unavoidably bring him into full communion . and we di●●ered about this , who are visible believers ? not whether the parents that have baptism for their children must be such . in sum , the reason of our disagreement , was not because we would not own our own principle ( as is here strangely represented ) but because we could not consent to yours , and because you refused to have a common principle any way expressed but so as might suit with your own nation , though our unity lay at the stake for it . reason . the second reason which our brethren here give of their dissent from the synod , stands thus ; there is no warrant in all scripture , to apply the seal of baptism unto those children , whose parents are in a state of unfi●ness for the lords supper . but the parents in question are in a state of unfitness for the lords supper ; therefore there is no warrant in all the scripture to baptize their children : this we suppose is the assumption , and conclusion that is understood , if this second reason be intended as a reason of their dissent from the synods fifth proposition . unless it be intended onely as a dissent from that which is ●●uched and contained in the synods discourse , viz. that some may have their children baptized , who yet are short of actual fitness for the lords supper : but the answer to it will take in both . and the answer will easily be given , if once we understand distinctly what is meant by [ a state of unfitness ] for the lords ●upper : now by a state of unfitness , must be meant either non-membership , and that is indeed a state of unfitness for the lords supper , which belongs onely to the church , ( though not to all in the church , yet onely to it ) and in this sense the assumption above mentioned is denied ; for the parents in question are members of the church , and in that respect in a state of fitness for the lords supper : i. e. being in the church ( or members thereof ) to them belong all church-priviledges , according as they shall be capable thereof , and appear duely qualified for the same ; they have jus ad rem , though not jus in re , as a childe hath a right to all his fathers estate , though he may not ( ought not to ) have the actual use and fruition of it , till he become to years , and be qualified with abilities to manage it . a free ●an is in a state of fitness to be a mag●stra●e or deputy ; ( or in some other office proper to freemen ) though for want of particul●r qu●lifications or orderly admission by election , he may haply never be one in such a sense every church-member is in a state of fitness for the lords supper . or else by [ a state of unfitness for the lords supper ] is 〈◊〉 [ want of actual qualifications fitting ] for it , whereby a person either is in himself short of actual fitness for the lords table , or wanteth church appro●ation of his fitness , and ●o wanteth an orderly admission thereunto . now in this sense we deny the major ( or proposition ) of the argument above mentioned , and do conceive that there i● warrant to be ●●und in scripture for the applying of baptism to children , 〈◊〉 parents do want actual qualifications fitting them for the lords supper among sundry other scripture evidences of it , one is from the analogie of the passeover , and circumcision in the church of i●rael , where the par●nt might want actual fitness for the passeover , by manifold ceremonial uncleannesses , and yet that hindred not the circumcising of the childe . now a liberty of arguing from thence to the gospel passeover , and gospel-circumcision ( i. e. to the lords supper and baptism ) is here granted and allowed : but 't is answered , that vnless the father were in a state of fitness for the passeover , he was not fit to have his childe circumcised . reply . wh●t state of fitness was the unclean iewish parent in , but onely a state of membership ? he was a member of the church , and so 〈◊〉 the parents in question ; and they need not , do not enter into a new membership when they are admitted to the lords table , no more then the iewish parent after his cleansing did . but in two things the case of the ceremonially-unclean jewish parent , holds proportion with the case in hand . . he must have other , and better qualifications then he hath at present , before he eat of the passover ; he is at present in a state of legal impurity ( and so , in regard of actual qualifications , in a state of unfitness ) but he must be in a state of legal purity and cleanness , before he partake of the holy things . . he must ( especially after some uncleannesses of a more remarkable nature ) be judged and pronounced by the priest to be clean , and so free to partake of the holy things , levit. . . so the parents in question must have their fitness for the lords table judged of , and approved by those in the church , to whom the power of such judgement and approbation doth belong : and having these two things ( personal qualifications , and church-approbation ) then ( and not before ) they are to come to the lords table ; and those two are all they need : they do not need a new admittance into membership ( as if they were before not of the church ) no more then the israelitish parent did . if any one object , that this legal uncleanness was but an accidental and ceremonial thing , and did not import the want of any moral or essential fitness for the passover : let him consider , that as the discipline then was mostly ceremonial (a) , and hence legal purity was then an essential qualification unto a regular fitness for the passover , and other holy things , and the want of it a reall barre ; so those ceremonies pointed unto moral and spiritual things to be attended by us now . their legal cleansings , washings , &c. did import , and signifie a special exercise of faith and repentance ; which therefore we may well require in those whom we admit unto full communion in the holy things of the gospel ; yet the present defect hereof doth not put the parent out of the church , nor exclude his children from membership , or from the initiatory seal of it , no more then a-like defect did then . we might also minde the case of one that hath been in full communion , but falling into offence is under publick admonition for it ; is not he in a state of unfitness ( taking it for want of actual fitting qualifications ) for the lords supper ? yet this will not debarre his childe from baptism , because he is not yet cut off from membership . neither doth his having once been in full communion alter the case , or render him more [ in a state of fitness ] then the parent in question is ; for the one , is a member as well and as truely as the other : and to be declined , and fallen off from supper-qualifications , and debarred from the lords table for open offence , is worse then for a young man simply not to have attained thereunto ( it is , at least , ecclesiastical●y worse . we speak not of what the inward state before god may be ; but that it is worse in foro ecclesiae , appears , because the church hath had and seen cause to dispense a publick censure in the one case , but not in the other ) now if a person may retain his membership , and so derive baptism-right to his children , notwithstanding his personal unfitness for the lords supper in the former case , why not as well , nay much more in the latter ? but let it seriously be considered whether there be any warrant in all the scripture to make the baptizing of the childe to depend upon the parents actual fitness for , or admission to the lords supper (c) . what fitness for the lords supper had those that were baptized by iohn baptist , and by christs disciples at his appointment in the beginning of his publick ministry ? what fitness had the iaylor , when himself and all his were baptized after an hours instinction ; wherein ( probably ) he had not so much as heard any thing of the lords supper ? the teaching of which followed after discipling and baptizing , as is hinted by that order in matth. . , and by the ancient practice of not teaching the catechumeni any thing about the lords supper till after they were baptized , as is witnessed by hanmer of confirmation , pag. , . albaspinans apud baxter of confirmation , pag. . we constantly read in the story of the acts that persons were baptized immediately upon their first entrance into membership , but we never read that they did immediately upon their first membership receive the lords supper , which strongly argues that membership , and baptism the seal thereof , is separable even in the adult from full communion . and that a man may have his children baptized ( as the iaylor , and others had ) and yet not presently come ( but need further instruction and preparation before he come ) to the lords supper . so farre is baptism from being inseparable from immediate admission to the lords supper , that we reade of no one , ( no not of the ●dult ) in all the new testament tha● was admitted to the lords supper immediately upon his baptism , from the first baptism of iohn , to the end of the acts of the apostles . there is but one place that sounds as if it were quickly after , viz. acts . , . which is here alledged by our brethren : but to that ; . there is no word about the lords supper in peters sermon , the heads whereof are in that chapter set down , though t●ere is somewhat of the other sacrament of baptism , ver . . and upon glad receiving 〈◊〉 is word they were baptized immediately , ver . . . hence there must be some time afterward for instructing them in the doctrine and use of the lords supper ( as paul nad some time for that a● corinth , cor. . . with acts . . ) before their admission t●ereunto , or participation thereof ; and so much is ●●●imated in the text , when it s said , they ( after their being added , and baptized ) continued in ( or gave sedulous attendance to ) the apostles [ doctrine ] fi●st , and then [ breaking of bread ] there was some time of gaining further acquaintance with christ , and with his wayes and ordinances ( and with this in special ) by the apostles doctrine and instruction , between their baptizing , and their participation of the supper : some time ( we say ) more or less , and that that was attained in a very little time then under those plentiful pourings forth of the spirit , requires usually a much longer time now in ordinary dispensation . the preface proceeds to strengthen their second reason by testimonies ; and the assertion which they seem to intend the proof of by these testimonies , is a very strange one ; viz. this : [ neither do we reade that in the primitive times baptism was of a greater latitude , as to the subject thereof , then the lords supper , but the contrary ] these words , as they are here set down , do speak as if in the primitive times baptism was not extended unto infants ; or at least no more , nor sooner then the lords supper was given unto them ( which is here presently well acknowledged to have been a grievous errour ) well might the anabaptist triumph if this could be proved , which indeed never was , nor can be : but we are willing to believe that our brethrens meaning is ( though it be not so expressed ) that the subject of baptism in ancient times was not of a greater latitude [ as to the adult ] then the lords supper , i. e. that no adult persons might have baptism for themselves or for their children , but such as were also admitted to the lords supper . but of this also we must say , that we finde not any thing that proves it , but much to the contrary . and though we have not met with any that have purposely handled this point touching the different extent of these two sacraments , yet we finde enough to shew us , that the churches of christ in all , especially in the best ages , and the choicest lights therein , both ancient and modern , have concurred and met in this principle ( as a granted and undoubted truth ) that baptism is of larger extent then the lords supper : so as that many that are within the visible church may have baptism for themselves , or at least for their chil●ren , who yet ought not presently to partake of the lords supper , or who do at present want actual fitness for it . the witnesses above cited , tell us that in ancient times they did not so much as impart any thing to the ca●echumeni about the lords supper , till after their baptism : and , if hanmer have rightly observed , even the adult , after their baptism , must have confirmation before they partaked of the lords supper . hanmer of confirmation , pag. — . and vid. pag. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or perfectus among the ancients , is as much as ( with us ) one in full communion ; but none were by them rec●oned to be 〈◊〉 ( in the rank of perfect christians ) that had not received the holy ghost either in extraordinary gifts , or in special confirming grace . see hanmer of confirmat . pag. . now it 's evident , that even in the apostles times sundry were baptized that had not so received the holy ghost , acts ▪ ; , . & : — . but there are sundry further evidences at hand ( were there room here to insort them ) which show that in those first ages of the church , there were many within the church , 〈◊〉 were debarred from the lords supper : wh● yet had their children baptized . in after 〈◊〉 how large baptism was , may easily be gathered : but that there was ( though t●o much l●xness ) some more restraint in the lords supper , appears by the canonists old verse , ebrius , infami● , erroneus , atque furentes , cum pueris , domin . non debent sumere corpus . as for the times since the reformation , it is most evident that godly reforming divines have in their doctrine unanimously taught , and in their practice ( many 〈◊〉 then . ) endeavoured a strict selection of those that should be admitted to the lords supper , when yet they have been 〈◊〉 large in poi●● of baptism ; and they still ●o upon this principle , that not all christians , nor a● baptized and genera●●y-professing christians , but onely such as are able ( or may be reputed able and careful ) to examine themselves , and discern the lords body , are to be admitted to the lords supper . but they reckon that all christians ( a● that are , in their account , within the visible church ) are to have their children baptized . be it that in practice they were , many of them , too lax and large in both the sacraments , chiefly through want of a due and effectual use of discipline ( by defect whereof many were sinfully tolerated in the church , who should have been cast out and cut off , and many suffered to come to the lords table , who should have been debarred and suspended ) of which themselves do 〈◊〉 sadly complain (b) . yet it shews thus much ( which is that we aim at ) that they held a different latitude of the two sacraments , as to the subjects thereof ( even in the very sense of our question ) denying the lords supper to many parents , whose children yet they scrupled not to baptize : this goes for currant among all our great divines as a granted principle , whereof many large and full testimonies might easily be produced . calvin in his geneva-cate●hism , to that question , whether pasters may give the sacraments to all ? answers , ●uod ad baptis●um pertinet , quia non nisi insantibus 〈◊〉 confertur , d●scre●●o ●●cu●●non habet : in can●●ero tavere dehet minister ne cui ipsam porrigat , quem indignum esse palàm constet . if calvin would baptize all children born among them without difference ( looking upon them as born within the visible church ) and yet not give the lords supper to all , then he would baptize some children whose parents he would not ad●it to the lords supper . lu●o● ▪ cr●●ius describing the subjects of baptism , saith , infantes verò omnes , &c. all such ●nfants as are either born of christian parents , or brought into the society of christians are to be baptized . but of the lords ●upper , s●lt quidem christians , &c. onely christians are to be admitted to the holy supper . yet not promis●u●usty all christians ; but onely those who both can and will examine themselves , rightly discern the lords body , and celebrate this sacrament unto a commemoration of the dea●h of chirst — but there are many in the christian church that either cannot or will not ●o those things and these are not to be admitted . 〈◊〉 , touching the lords supper ▪ saith , est sacramentum , &c. it is a sacrament appointed for such in the christian church as are already baptized and adult , and do examine themselves (a) . and in another place (b) unto this question , to whom is the lords supper to be given ? he answers , to all the faithful members of the church , who can examine themselves , and are instructed in the ministery of faith , and can 〈◊〉 forth the lords death . for unto this mystery there is required examination of ones self , and annunciation of the lords death . and therefore it is not to be given to vnbelievers not to infants , not to distracted persons , not to those that are ignorant of the mysteries , not to the impenitent , not to those that are by the orderly judgement of the church excommunicate not to such as are polluted either with ●anifest errours , or with any notorious wickedness , until they have first satisfied the church , and g●ve ▪ testimony of their repentance . compare herewith his latitude for baptism , exoresly granti●g that so sundry of thos● sorts , to whom he denies the lords supper (c) . ●ez● , concerning the question who are to be baptized ? saith ▪ all that are comprehended within the tables of the covenant , &c. (d) . but to that question , would you admit all sorts to the lor●s supper ? he an●wereth with great ze●l for 〈◊〉 and care therein , and among other expre●●●ons , th●se ( saith he ) whose 〈◊〉 age sheweth them not to be of ability to examine themselves 〈…〉 not as unworthy , but as not yet fit . ●ut of the adult no one is to be 〈◊〉 . except he have one may or other so given account of his faith at that the paster may probably gather ( not onely that he was born in the church but also ) that he is indeed a christian (e) . pelanius , touching the subjects of the lords supper , saith , vnto the lords supper maybe admitted onely christians 〈◊〉 baptized and adult , and such as can examine their 〈◊〉 , with thank 〈…〉 remember christ and shew forth (e) his death . but of baptism , all that are in covenant with god — infants born of christian parents are to be baptized . ge●k●r . in his c●●mon places a●●erts ●hat soli christiani , &c. onely christians ( i. e. such as embrace the doctrine of christ , as have received the sacrament of baptism , and are implanted into the christian church ) yet not 〈◊〉 christians are to be admi●●ed to the holy supper ; but according to paul●s rule these onely 〈◊〉 examine themselves , 〈◊〉 the lor●s body , a●● shew ●●rib the lords 〈◊〉 , cor . , , . all 〈◊〉 therefore are excluded , who either will not 〈…〉 examine themselves (f) . bu● he extends baptism to all children born of ( one or both ) christian parents , o● that come into the power of such (g) . the like may be observed in the confessions of the reformed churches , when as they declare for a special selection of those whom they admit to the lords supper● see the confe●●●●● of bohemia . harmony of confess . pag. . of belgia , pag. . of aus●●ge , pag. , . or saxony , p. , ● . ●nd the confession of scotland in the end of that harmony , pag. . comparing this with the deep silence of them ●ll touching any such selectio● in point of baptism● as to the children that are born among them : and it is kno●n to be their ordinary practice to baptize many children , whose parents they would not admit to the lords supper . all which , with many more testimonies that might be alledged , do abundantly shew it to have been the concurrent judgement of protestant divines , that baptism is of greater latitude then the lords supper : and that all that do bring their children to partake of the former , 〈◊〉 n●t therefore themselves presently partake of th● latter ; but that many may have their ch●ldren baptized , and yet regularly be debarred from the lords supper . we might also mention the concurrence of divines with us in particular reasons explications , and assertions relating to ●●is matter : ●● , that baptism is annexed to the ●eing or beginning of faith , the lords supper to the special exercise of it ▪ that baptism belongs to all members , but the lords supper to so●e onely that are so and so qualified : that all visible believers , ( who in a latitude of expression , and ecclesiastical reputation are such , as are all that are within the church ) are not to be admitted to the lords supper . vrsin and pareus , answering that objection against the baptism of infants , that then they must be admitted to the lords supper ; have these words : magnum discrimen , &c. there is a great difference between baptism and the supper . for , . baptism is a sacrament of entrance and r●ception into the church : but 〈◊〉 supper is a sacrament of continuance in the church 〈◊〉 confirmation of the reception 〈◊〉 made — . regeneration by 〈…〉 (h) and not to them presently , but after that they have held forth a confession of faith and repentance (i) . also it may be minded , that it is the currant and constant expression of our divines , that they call , and count all that are within the compass of the visible church ( whether infants , or adult ) fideles , v●cati , ( faithful , called &c. ) and they will tell you that they are for baptizing no infants but such as are ( infantes fidelium ) the infants of the faithful or of believers , infantes non omnes , sed duntaxat fidelium , i. e. baptizatorum , sunt baptizandi . chamier . tom. . pag. . so daneus , infantes ex fidelibus , i. e. baptiza●●s nati , possunt baptizari in ecclesia . lib. . de sacram. pag. . and yet they do not look at all these ( no not at all the adult that come under this denomination , and whose children they baptize ) to be regularly admittable to the lords supper , which plainly shews their judgement to be that all adult persons who are in a latitude of expression to be accounted visible believers ( or in ecclesiastical reputation to be lookt at as fideles ) are not therefore to partake of the lords supper . dr. ames , accounts that a person may be a believer on christ and yet be unfit for the lords supper , being not sufficiently instructed thereunto . bellar. enerv. tom. . lib. . cap. . and he expresly saith that church-children are to be numbred among the faithful , and reckons them to have the beginning of faith , yet not to be admitted to all ordinances till increase of faith appear , medul . lib. . cap. . thes. , . mr. hooker takes it for granted as a clear case , that one may be a convert soundly brought home to christ , and yet through his weakness not able to discern the lords body aright , nor fit to partake of the supper . survey . part . . pag. . and in his sermons on gen. . . pag. . he hath these words , baptism is the entrance into christs family ; there is much more to be looked at to make a person capable of the supper of the lord , a man must be able to examine himself , he must not onely have grace , but growth of grace ; he must have so much perfection in grace as to search his own heart , and he must be able to discern the lords body , or else he is guilty of the body and blood of christ ; so as there is more required in this , for there must be a growth . but baptism is our entrance , and the lowest degree of grace will serve here in the judgement of charity . worthy hildersam on psal. . . pag. . saith , the infants of the faithful are said to be holy , not because they are without sin , but because ( in the judgement of the church ) they are to be esteemed not infidels as other children of pagans , but christians and believers , and holy and true members of the church of god. and hence . so soon as they are born they have title to the seal of gods covenant , and the church may not deny it unto then . — and why may not the church deny baptism to any childe of a believing parent ? surely because the church is bound to esteem every such childe not an infidel , but rather a believer and a true christian. . when they dye we are in christian charity to judge that they dye in gods favour , and in the state of salvation . and all this because of the covenant , gen. . as he there addes . yet the same hildersam would not admit such as these ( who were born and grew up in the visible church ) to the lords table , without a strict examination not onely of their knowledge and lives , but of their spiritual estate . doct. of lords supper , pag. — . all which we produce , not as if the testimony and concurrence of authors were the basis that our judgement in this matter stands upon , but because this preface doth , both in this place and in other parts of it , insinuate to the reader as if authority of writers were for the dissenters , and against the doctrine of the synod , which is farre from being so : the contrary being abundantly , and undeniably evident . and as we bottom our faith in this point , wholly and onely upon the scriptures , and do referre the decision of this and of all other theological controversies to the law and to the testimony : so we acknowledge it to be no small confirmation to us , to finde that we have the concurrence of the godly-learned . the substance of the congregational-way may be gathered from the doctrine & principles of our best and ablest reforming divines (k) : which doth not a little confirm us in it , and delivers it from the imputation of novelty or singularity . but should we limit baptism to so narrow a scantling as our brethren strive for , we should therein go against the whole stream of divines , even of those that have been most eminent in their generations for learning , holiness , and studiousness of reformation ; yea , of those from whom our congregational leaders have professed to receive their principles , as was abovesaid . and we confess our selves conscious to so much of our own weakness , that unless we have very clear light , and undeniable argument constraining us , we are slow and fearful to go alone , or to go contrary to the concurrent judgement of our best divines , who ( if we may use our brethrens phrase ) have been stars of the first magnitude , incomparable champions for the truth , and have been raised up by christ to light the path of reformation in these later ages . now as for what is here alledged by our brethren as favouring their cause ; to say , that the catechumeni were not ( in the primitive times ) to be baptized , before they were fit for the lords supper . consider how it can consist with the above mentioned practice of antiquity , in not so much as teaching the catechumeni any thing about the lords supper , till after they were baptized . indeed , as the darkness and corruption of the times increased , baptism was not onely deferred till easter ( as is here said ) but till death , which is justly taxed as an abuse by cartwright in his catechism , pag. . and we suppose will not be approved by any . the arausiacan councils , canon ; doth not concern the matter of baptism , as it is set down by the magdeburg centurists ( cent. . pag. . ) but however it be , it is of small moment . the over-long holding off of adult converts from baptism , that we sometimes reade of in the fourth and fifth centuries , was a manifest devi●tion from the apostolical practice . we finde also that in austin's time , and some ages after , they gave the lords supper to infants , yet then we suppose they would give both sacraments to some infants , whose parents they debarred from the lords supper . but if it was indeed a grievous errour to administer the lords supper to infants ( as is here rightly said by our brethren ) how then is baptism of no greater latitude , as to the subject thereof , then the lords supper ? yea , let any man shew a reason why baptism should be regularly extendible to infants , and not the lords supper , if the very sa●e qualifications be absolutely requisite to the one as to the other ; we say , absolutely requisite ▪ for no man doubts but that the better qualifications a person who receiveth baptism for himself , or for his children , is endued with , the better and the more comfortable it is . as for that of iuel , that baptism is as much to be reverenced , ●s the sacrament of the body and blood of christ. and that which follows , that former ages have been farre from looking upon the lords supper as being of a more sacred nature then the other ordinance of baptism . answ. to assert that scripture rules make the subject of baptism larger then the subject of the lords supper , this doth not detract from the reverence of baptism , nor render it an ordinance of a less sacred nature , as is here insinuated . the word and prayer are ordinances of a very sacred nature , and to be highly reverenced , and yet many may be admitted unto them , that may not be admitted unto sacraments . the sacredness of every ordinance , lies in the holy and religious application of it to its proper ends and uses by divine institution : but the proper ends and uses of one ordinance may , by divine institution , be such as may admit more to partake of it then of another , and yet the sacred nature thereof be no whit impaired (b) . but the preface addes : indeed of late there have been those who have made baptism of a farre larger extent then the lords supper : this hath been one practical difference between congregational-men and presbyterians . answ. whether it have been onely a late or novell notion , to make baptism larger then the lords supper , let the reader judge , when he hath considered the testimonies before alledged , with many more that might have been added thereunto : but we are so farre from looking upon a different latitude of these two sacraments to be a presbyterian principle , or anti-congregational as that we perswade our selves , the congregational way cannot long stand without it . for , if we deny this , and administer baptism to none but those whose parents do partake of the lords supper , and so are in full communion ▪ then we must either make full communion very large , which in the congregational-way , where brethren have so great an interest in church-transactions , will soon ruine all : or else make baptism , and consequently the compass of the visible church so strait , as will never stand before rational and scriptural men ; yea , we shall put multitudes out of the visible church , that are in a visible state of salvation , which is absurd : for to deny persons baptism for themselves or children , is to deny them to be within the compass of the visible church , seeing baptism ought to run parallel with church-membership . but how shall we deny them a room in the visible church , who were once in , and are by no rule to be put out , nay whom god ( as we may charitably hope ) taketh into heaven when they die , and that as a fruit of his covenant-grace ? which is the case of many of our children who are not yet come up to full communion . but so much for the second reason of our brethrens dissent . the third follows . . the parents of the children in question , are not members of any instituted church , according to gospel rules ● because they were never under any explicite and personal covenant . which is former proved ; because if they be members , then they would be a true ▪ church though all their parents were dead , and then they must have power of voting in church-affairs , which is denied to them by the synod . ans. . . it seems , by what is here said , that our children were never under any explicite and personal covenant , and that all that never were so , are not members of any instituted church according to gospel-rules . if this be so , then what is become of childrens membership , which the apologist before , in answer to objection second , took it as an injury to be charged with the denial of ? it seems our children neither are nor ever were members of any instituted church according to gospel-rules , because they were never under any explicite and personal covenant . is it come to this , that children are not members of any instituted church ? how then ? are they members of the catholick visible church ? or are they no members at all ? the former our brethren fancy not , as it seems by their anti-synodalia , pag. . the latter then remains to be the conclusion . neither will it salve it to say , they were members in minority , though they be not members now when they are adult ; for if all those that were never under any explicite and personal covenant , be no members of any instituted church , and if children were never under any explicite and personal covenant ( both which are here said ) then no children ( no not while in minority ) are members of any instituted church . for our parts we doubt not to affirm with dr. ames in his chapter de ecclesia institutâ , that children are members of an instituted church according to gospel-rules , and that they are under personal covenant , i. e. personally 〈◊〉 into covenant by god , according to his gospel-rules , though they have not performed the act of covenanting in their own persons . yea , under explicite covenant also , if the parents covenanting was explicite , deut. . so ames , they are partakers of the same covenant , and also of the same profession with their parents . though we take it for a principle granted by congregational men , with one consent , that implicite covenant preserves the being of a true church , and so of true church-membership . . the consequent of our assertion here urged as absurd , viz. [ that then , in ease all the pro-parents were dead , this second generation would be a true ▪ church of christ without any further act or covenanting ] is no absurdity but a manifest truth , i. e. taking that phrase [ further act , or covenanting ] to be meant of a particular formal act of explicite verbal covenanting . for otherwise , there is a further act , yea an act of ( implicite ) covenanting in their constant and publick profession of the religion of their fathers . but we say this second generation , continuing ( to use mr. cottons phrase in grounds of baptism , pag. . ) in a visible profession of the covenant , faith , and religion of their fathers , are a true church of christ , though they have not yet made any explicite personal expression of their engagement , as their fathers did ▪ even as the israelites that were numbred in the plains of moab were a true church , and under the covenant of god made with them in horeb , though their parents with whom it was first made in horeb , were all dead , and that before the solemn renewing of the covenant with them in the plains of moab , deut. . see deut. . , . with numb . . , , . and so mr. hooker roundly and expresly affirms this which is here by our brethren denied , survey . part. . pag. . . as for our denial of the liberty of voting in church-affairs to the persons in question , till they be fitted for , and admitted to the lords supper , it stands good and rational without any prejudice to their being a true church in the case supposed . for there is no difficulty in it , to conceive that the case of a true church may be such ( by degeneracy , or loss of their best members , &c. ) as that they may be at present unfit to put forth or exercise a power of acting in church-affairs ( though it be radically in them ) till by the use of needful means they , or a select qualified number among them , be brought up unto a better and fitter capacity for it . and examples hereof are not farre to seek : let that way of reforming corrupt and degenerate churches be attended which is partly suggested in mr. allin's , and mr. shepard's preface , before their defence of the nine positions ( which preface beverly saith is instar omnium ) pag. , , , . viz. that they be acknowledged true churches , and called by the powerful preaching of the word to humiliation , repentance , and agreement unto reformation : and then that such as do so agree , and submit to discipline , being owned to be of the church ; among them a select number who are found upon tryal able to examine themselves , and discern the lords body , and do walk according to christ , do solemnly renew or enter into covenant , and so electing officers , &c. enjoy full communion , and carry on all church-affairs in the congregational way . this shews that a church may be out of case for the present exercise of a proper church power , and may need much preparation , and reducement into order before it come up thereunto : and yet this doth not hinder it from being a true church , nor from having that power radically in it , and which in a way of due order it may come to the exercise of . have not the late times had experience of many congregations unto which it was fain to be a publick care to sent ministers , and they to preach to them many years before they found a number fit for full communion and management of church-affairs ? and yet they retained the being of true churches , and church-members all this while . see also mr. shepards late-printed letter about the church-membership of children , pag. . we might also ask whether such a member of reasoning as is here used would prove women to be no members of an instituted church ? because if all the men were dead , they could not then be a church , nor vote in church-affairs , chuse officers , &c. but that which is said may suffice : onely let us adde , that as the case that is supposed , viz. of all the parents ( or all that were in full communion ) being dead , at once , is rarely , if ever heard of ; so also the case we added , viz. for the whole body to be fallen into an unfitness for full communion , by corruption and degeneracy , would be ( we may hope ) as rare , if discipline and other ordinances be kept up , in their use and vigour . god will so bless his own ordinances , if duely attended , as that a considerable number shall from time to time have such grace given them as to be fit for full communion , and to carry on all the things of his house with competent strength , beauty , and edification . the fourth reason of our brethrens dissent , is this : it is not meer membership ( as the synod speaks ) but qualified membership that gives right unto baptism : for john 's baptism might not be applied unto the standing members of the visible church , till they were qualified with repentance . this ( say they ) seems to us to cut the sinews of the strongest arguments of the synod for englargeme●●●f baptism : for neither doth the scripture acknowledge any such meer membership as they speak of ; nor is it meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right unto this divine and sacred ordinance . answ. this term or distinction of [ meer membership ] is here , as also in the book to which this preface is prefixed , much exagitated , and harshly censured : but let the plain meaning of the synod therein be attended , and there will appear no cause for such exagitation . when the synod said , that persons are not therefore to be admitted to full communion meerly because they are and continue members ; and that meer membership ( or membership alone ) doth not suffice to render men subjects of the lords supper , propos. . p. , . the meaning is , that full communion doth not belong to a member as such , or to a person meerly because he is a member , for then it would belong to all members , which it doth not . a person may be a member ( or in memberly relation ) and yet not bein full communion . now to say that meer membership ( in this sense ) the scripture acknowledgeth not , is as if one should say , that the scripture acknowledgeth not logical distinctions between things in their abstract and general nature , and the same things as clothed with various adjuncts and accessions ; which to say , were strangely to forget our selves . but when it is hence inferred and put upon us , that we set up a meer membership , and a sort of meer members in the church ; this is an unnecessary reflexion . as , if we should say that riches do not belong to men meerly as men , or meerly because they are men ; would it be a good inference to say , that we set up a sort of meer men ( or a meer humanity existing alone ) or that we distinguish men into meer men , and rich men ? there is no individual man in the world that is a meer man , i. e. that hath a naked humanity without adjuncts ; yet logick distinguisheth between humanity and its adjuncts , and between what belongeth to a man as such , and what accreweth to him other wayes , . so in the church ; membership , or memberly relation , is not existent in particular persons , without some communion flowing from it , nor yet without some qualifications ( unto charity ) under it , more or less , at least ordinarily ; though it may , and often does exist without those special and peculiar qualifications that fit men for the lords table . but surely we may well distinguish , especially between the memberly rel●tion and those special superadded qualifications , and between what belongs to persons in the one respect and in the other . for some priviledges in the church belong to persons by virtue of their memberly relation , or meerly because they are members ; they belong to a member as such : so does baptism , matth. . . the benefit of church-watch and discipline ( viz. according to natural capacity in regard of age , there is no other moral capacity but that of membership requisite to a subject thereof ) acts . . cor. . and a share in the common legacies of the covenant , rom. . , . & . . acts . , . meer membership , or membership alone , gives right to these things . but there be other priviledges in the church that do not belong to members as such ( or to persons meerly because they are members ) but to members as clothed with such and such special qualifications . so the passover and other holy things of old , and so the lords supper now , cor. . . now thus to distinguish , does not distribute members into meer members and others , but it distributes priviledges unto their proper subjects , and states the immediate right unto each sort of priviledges upon its proper basis. if we say that government of a family does not belong to persons meerly because they are members of the family ; do we thereby set up a sort of meer members thereof , that have no family-benefit , but onely a titulary relation to it , & c ? indeed such a saying would impor● , that in a family there are some that are governours , and some that are not governours of it ; as also that one may be a member of a family , and yet have no hand in the government thereof . so the distinction in hand implies , that in the church some are in full communion , and some are not ; and that one may be in memberly relation , and yet not be in full communion : and surely the truth of this cannot be doubted of . if children in minority be members ( as our brethren acknowledge them to be ) then there are some members that are not in ( nor yet fit for ) full communion . and for the adult , when a man is by admonition debarred from the lords table , and yet not excommunicated ; does he not continue a member ( yea , a personal member in our brethrens account ) and yet is not in full communion ? this demonstrates that membership and full communion are distinct and separable things . it is clear enough , that our non excommunicable children do continue members of the church ; yet many of them are not in full communi●● 〈◊〉 will our brethren say that they are fit for it . so then , neither the logical distinction between what belongs to persons simply as members ( or by their meer membership ) and what belongs to them as further endued with such and such special qualifications ; nor yet the assertion flowing from it , viz. [ that some may be and continue members , and yet not be in full communion ] can ju●tly be objected against . the sum is ; the persons in question have by virtue of their memberly relation ( or meerly by their membership ) a proper right unto the priviledges that are desired for them ; yet withall , they have some qualifications , and some communion ( and so are not meer members in contradistinction hereunto ) though they have not yet such full qualifications as to come into full communion . but thus much being s●id concerning that distinction which the synod useth , and the meaning of it : proceed we to the assertion here laid down by our brethren , and their proof thereof . their assertion is , that it is not meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right to baptism . remember here , t●at our ●●●pute properly is of membership de jure , or regular membership , ( i. e. wherein the rule appoints or allows one to be , or to be continued a member of the visible church ) not of membership de facto onely . now membership de jure , or regular membership , implies some qualification , as ▪ viz. that a person being a church-member is not under such gross , and incorrigible ignorance , heresie , scandal or apostacy , as renders him an immediate subject of excommunication ; hence meer membership is not so to be opposed to qualified membership , as if it were destitute of all qualifications . those whom the lord doth , and whom the church , acting regularly , may own , and continue as members , they are so farre qualified as that the rule hath accepted them into covenant , and doth not appoint us to put them out . now then , understanding meer membership f●r [ meerly this , that a man is regularly a member ] and qualified membership for [ superadded qualifications , over and above what is essentially requisite to regular membership ] the 〈◊〉 said ass●rtion is thus much ; it is not sufficient to give a person right to baptism , that he be regularly a member of the visible church , but he must have some further qualification then so , or else he hath not right thereunto . this assertion ( or to say , in this sense ) that it is not meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right to baptism , is indeed an antisynodalian assertion , and we doubt not to affirm it is antiscriptural . . it is antisynodalian , or directly opposite to the d●ctrine of the synod , and we will readily grant that if this could be proved , it cuts asunder the ●inews of the synods strongest arguments ; for this is that which the synod stand and build upon , that it is covenant-interest , or federal holiness , or visible church-membership ( which are but several expressions of the same thing ) that properly gives right to baptism , or , that baptism belongs to a church-member as su●h , and so to all church-members . and hence by the way , let it be minded that the synod in their fifth proposition have comprized both the right to baptism , and the manner of administration : the distinstion between which two , was often-over mentioned in the synod ; though they put both together in the proposition for better concurrence sake , and that they might at once familiarly set down what is to be attended in such a case . the [ right ] stands upon [ membership ] whereby the parent , and so the childe is regularly within the visible church ; so as no more qualification in the parent is simply necessary to give the childe right to baptism , but what is essentially requisite unto regular membership . as for other and further qualifications pointed to in the proposition ( as , giving account of their assent to the doctrine of faith , solemn owning of the covenant , &c. ) they properly belong to the manner of administration . yet these are not therefore needless things , nor may they be disregarded , or boldly slighted and refused by any ( because membership alone gives right ) for god hath made it one commandment of four , to provide for the manner of his worship , requiring that all his holy ordinances be attended in a solemn , humble , reverent and profitable manner : and it cannot be denyed to be meet and needful , that persons should both know and own the covenant-state they are in , and the state of subjection to christs government , which the covenant placeth them in , especially when they partake of such a fruit of the covenant as baptism for their children is : that they should do covenant-duties , when they come for covenant priviledges ; that they should both seek and attend the lords holy ordinance ( though it be their right never so much ) in humility and fear : and it being one branch of the covenant , that they give up their children to the lord , and do promise to take care for their christian education , it must needs be suitable that they be minded of it when they present them to baptism , and the more explicitely they do so promise , it is the better . hence all reformed churches do in their directories , and practices , require professions , and promises of parents , or those that present the childe to baptism , and appoint a solemn manner of administration , and stand upon it as a needful duty . though they unanimously own and grant , that the childe hath a full and clear right to baptism by its being born within the visible church . see english leiturgie of the administration of baptism . directory , pag. . late petition for peace , pag. , &c. zepperi polit. ecces . pag . & pag. — . alasco , pag. — . ratio discipl . bohem. pag . hence also no man will doubt but that it is a comfortable and desireable thing , that the parent do address himself in the most solemn , serious , and spiritual manner to draw nig● to god upon such an occasion as the baptizing of a childe , by humbling himself before god for all neglects and breaches of his covenant , by taking hold of the incouraging promises of grace in christ , in reference unto the children of the covenant ; and by pouring out earnest prayer to god for his childe , and for an heart to do the duty of a christian parent toward his childe , as doth become him , &c. and such things as these , parents may and ought to be stirred up unto in the ministry of the word , as their duty . but still we must distinguish between what belongs to the manner of administration , or to the better and more comfortable attendance thereof , and between what is essentially requisite to give right and title to the ordinance before the church . this latter , meer membership ( or membership alone ) doth . a state of membership in the visible church , is that unto which the right of baptism is annexed (k) , as not onely the synod , but the scripture teacheth . and so , . the assertion before-mentioned ( viz. that it is not meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right to baptism : in the sense above given ) is also antiscriptural ; . because it directly overthroweth infant-baptism , which the scripture establisheth : for what have infants more then membership ( or federal holiness , or covenant-interest ) to give them right to baptism ? i. e. what have they more then this , that they are regularly ( by the rules of gods word , and his institution therein ) within the visible church ? if this will not suffice , but there must be some other qualifications besides , and superadded unto this , what shall become of them ? for our parts , we know no stronger argument for infants-baptism then that ; church members , or foederati , are to be baptized : the infants of the faithful are church-members , or foederati : ergo. but if the foresaid assertion hold , this argument fails , and falls short : for now church-membership , or to be in covenant , or federal holiness , will not serve the turn , but there must be more then this to give right to baptism . how the sinews of the strongest arguments of the synod for enlargement of baptism will fare , we know not ; but sure we are , that this cuts in sunder the sinews of the strongest arguments for infant-baptism , which must fall if this stand . but fall it never will ( through grace ) while the lords appointment in the covenant of abraham stands , viz. to have the initiating seal run parallel with the covenant , gen. . or christs commission , matth. . . viz. to baptize all disciples , or all members of the visible church under the new testament . let this assertion therefore fall , which makes the extent of the initiatory seal shorter then the covenant , and denies baptism to run parallel with church-membership under the gospel . hence , . it contradicts that which the harmony of scripture , and all orthodox divines acknowledge for a principle , viz. that the whole visible church ( i. e. now under the new testament ) ought to be baptized ; or that all church members are subjects of baptism : for , if not meer membership ( or membership alone ) but qualified membership gives right to baptism ; then not all members , but some onely , viz. those that be so and so qualified , are to be baptized . if baptism do not belong to meer membership , or to a member as such , then not to all members : as à quatenus ad omne , so à non quatenus ad non omne valet consequentiae . this denies not onely in the fifth , but the first proposition of the late synod ( which yet the antisynodalia , pag. . seem to consent unto . ) but let the arguments that are given from scripture to confirm that first proposition , be duely weighed , and they will be found to be of greater weight then to be shaken by this assertion . now for the proof of this assertion ; viz. because john 's baptism , which was christian baptism , might not be applied to some who were standing members of the visible church , because they were not qualified with repentance , luke . . & . . therefore christian baptism is not to be applied unto such as stand members in the visible church , if they be not qualified with fruits of repentance . answ. let this be answered with reference to infant-baptism , which lies upon our brethren to do , as well as on us , seeing they above declared antipoedobaptism to be a sinful opinion , and do profess to hold and maintain the baptizing of infants : though indeed the reader could not gather so much from these words [ christian baptism is not to be applied unto such 〈◊〉 stand members in the visible church , if they be not qualified with fruits of repentance . ] this seems directly to gainsay infant-baptism ; for infants do indeed stand members of the visible church , but how do they or can they shew that they are qualified with fruits of repentance ? for it seems that neither is repentance it self sufficient without [ fruits ] of repentance . but we are to suppose our brethren do not intend to oppose infant-baptism , and therefore that their meaning is not to require these fruits of repentance ( or qualifications superadded to membership ) of the children or person● to be baptized , but of their parents ; though it be not so expressed . but , let this argument from iohn's requiring of qualifications over and above membership , be answered , with reference to infant-baptism , and that will answer it as to the case in hand . we remember in debates between the elders and an antipoed●baptist many years since , this very argument was urged by him , and the same answer that was given then , we shall give here ; viz. . that meerly to be a member of the old-testament iewish church , or simply to be in covenant ( or confederate ) under the old-testament manner of administration , sufficeth not to baptism : but to be in the church and covenant of the new-testament , to be a member of a gospel church , stated and setled under the gospel manner of administration , this is that which right to baptism stands upon , and here membership alone sufficeth thereunto . when we say , that members of the visible church , confederates &c. are to be baptized , we must needs be understood to speak of the visible church ( or of covenant-interest ) under the new testament , and gospel-administration , which is founded upon christ already come . and it were most absurd and irrational to understand us otherwise ; we having now no other church or covenant to speak of , but that . old testament-church-membership gave right to circumcision ; new-testament church-membership gives right to baptism . but at the transition from old to new , or at the first setting up of the gospel-administration ( o● kingdome of heaven , as 't is called ) and of baptism , the entring seal thereof in iohn baptists's and christ's time , well might more be required then bare membership in the iewish church ( which was then also under great corruption , and degeneracy ) hence all the members of the church of the iews were not baptized , but onely those that in some degree embraced the new and reformed administration : in order to which , a special repentance was then necessary , mat. . . but to inferre from hence , a necessity of qualifications superadded unto membership in stated christian or gospel-churches ▪ in order to baptism-right , will not hold ; there is a wide difference between the case of ecclesia christiana constituenda , and constituta . in those first beginnings of the gospel , even pious persons , and men fearing god , such as the eunuch , and cornelius , must have further instruction , and preparation , before they could be baptized : may a man thence inferre , that now in the christian church constituted , a christian or church-member that feareth god , is not baptizable without further qualifications ? . much of what was required by iohn baptist of the members of the iewish church before he baptized them , may be referred to the manner of administration , and was upon that account attended in a case so circumstanced , as that was ; for that by reason of their church-state ( though so degenerate as they were ) they were in a farre other and neerer capacity then non-members ; and that thereby they had a right to the ministrations of iohn and christ among them , is plain from many scriptures , luk. . . iohn . . mat. . . & . , . rom. . . but those that were then to be baptized ( at that first institution of baptism , and beginning of the gospel-administration ) being adult persons , and they defiled with scandal , and degeneracy , yea having much lost the truth of doctrine in many poinst ▪ hence they could not be brought to entertain that beginning of the gospel ( as 't is called , mark . , . ) and baptism the sign and seal thereof , without previous convictions , and penitential preparations by the powerful ministry of the baptist. but it doth not appear that more was pre-required of them , then what was necessary to an humble submitting to the ordinance , and to that new and reforming administration then on foot , which was betokened and sealed thereby . and he that shall consider the multitudes that were baptized by iohn . mat. . , . luk. . , . in the short time of his ministry , and in those glimmerings of gospel-light that they then had , together with the great weakness , and rawness of some that he baptized , iohn . , . act. . — . will not think that the persons baptized by iohn did excell those whom the synod describeth in their fifth proposition , of which our brethren were so sensible in their anti-synodalia , pag. . that there they chose rather to wave iohns practice , and to seek for stricter presidents , though here they plead , ( and that rightly and truely ) that iohn's baptism was christian baptism , and holds forth a rule unto us . as for that confession of sins in mat. . . when our children do in their assens to the doctrine of faith , and consent to the covenant , acknowledge their sin , and misery by nature , their perishing condition without christ , &c. are willing to submit to instruction , and government , for the reformation of their sins ( as those that were baptized by iohn shewed their penitential frame by that , viz. a submission to his instructions and counsels , luk. . — . ) they cannot be denyed to have somewhat of that confession of sin . so chemnit . on the place , they acknowledged themselves to be sinners , and both in words , and by their action in desiring to be baptized , they professed their fear of the wrath of god , and desire to escape it . but if any do stand guilty of open scandals , we know not why they should not make particular confession of their sin therein , when they come to present themselves before god , and desire baptism for their children , if they have not done it before ( so saith the same chemnitius in the same place of them ; moreover , such as stood guilty of more grievous falls , did also confess them in particular . ) to be sure , they should by the discipline of the church be brought to that , whether they had children to be baptized or no , but then may be a fitting season for it . thus there may be cause and call for a special repentance in special cases ( when persons have so carried it , as to shake their standing in the visible church ) and although the rule owns the childe to be a member of the church , and so a subject of baptism , while it allows the parent to be a member not cut off ; yet it is a covenant-duty of the parent to confess his sin in such a case : and so shall baptism be administred with greater honour to god , and comfort to all that are concerned . but otherwise , while the parent that was born in the church , regularly continues in it , without scandal , he is ecclesiastically accounted to have the being of repentance , and so to have the thing which iohn required of them , though not the same modus of manifestation , and discovery thereof . now follows the fifth reason of our brethrens dissent , which is this ; that which will not make a man capable of receiving baptism himself , in case he were unbaptized , doth not make him capable of transmitting right of baptism unto his childe : but all that the synod hath said will not give a man right to baptism himself in case he were unbaptized ; therefore all that the synod hath said is not enough to make a man capable of transmitting right of baptism unto his childe . whereunto is added somewhat out of bucer , parker and mr. cotton , as concurring with the judgement of our brethren . ans. taking [ capable of receiving baptism himself , or right to baptism himself ] for a state of baptism-right , or capacity , we may grant the major , but the minor in manifestly to be denied . but taking it for a frame of actual fitness to receive baptism , we cannot say that we may grant the minor , but surely the major will not hold . it is true , that that which doth not put a man into a state of right to baptism for himself in case he were unbaptized ( i. e. into a state of church-membership ) will not enable him to give baptism-right to his childe . if the parent be not a member , or not in a state of covenant interest , none of us plead for the childes baptism . and if he be a 〈◊〉 surely he is in the state of a subject of baptism , or in a state of right to it ( as all the members of the visible church are ) whatever may de facto hinder it . but it is possible for an adult person , being in the state of a member , and so of right to baptism , to have something fall in which may hinder the actual application of baptism to himself ( in case he were unbaptized ) or his actual fitness for it : and yet the same thing may not hinder a person already baptized , and standing in a covenant-state , from conveying baptism-right to his childe . the reason is , because the right of the childe depends upon the state of the parent ( that he be in a state of membership : for if so , then divine institution carrieth or transmitteth membership , and so baptism-right to the childe ) but the parents regular partaking of this or that ordinance for himself , depends much upon his own actual fitness for it . as suppose an unbaptized adult person admitted into the church , who before he is baptized falls into some great offence ( though such a case could hardly fall out , if baptism were administred according to the rule , and apostolical practice , i. e. immediately upon first admission , matth. . . acts . . much more is it an harsh and strange supposition for a parent that ought to have been , and was baptized in his infancy , to be supposed to be yet unbaptized ▪ but allowing the supposition , that a person 〈◊〉 in adult age falls into offence before he is baptized ) he may be called to give satisfaction for it , and to shew himself in a more serious and penitent frame before himself receive baptism ; but suppose he die before he do that , and leave children behinde him , shall not they be baptized ? in like manner , if a person already baptized , yea or already in full communion , should fall into offence , you would say that would put a stop to his own baptism , in case ( upon an impossible supposition ) he were yet unbaptized ; but what rule or reason is there for it , to make a particular offence in the parent , to cut o● the childes right to baptism , when as the parent is ( notwithstanding that offence ) still a member , and within the church , and doth not shew any such incorrigibleness , as that 〈◊〉 is by rule to be put out ? when as the offence doth not cut off the parents membership , is there any reason it should cut off the membership of the childe ? and if it cut not of the childes membership , it doth not cut off his right to baptism ▪ whatever may be said for requiring the parent to confess his sin before his childes baptism , in reference to the more expedient and comfortable manner of administration ( therein we oppose not ) yet where doth the scripture allows us to disannull the childes right to baptism upon a particular offence in the parent , especially when it is not such as doth touch upon the essentials of christianity , and notwithstanding which , the parent is regularly and orderly continued a member of the church ? it remains therefore that there may be obstructions to a parents receiving baptism for himself , in case he were unbaptized , which do not incapacitate a baptized parent to transmit ( if we may attribute transmitting to a parent , which is properly the act of gods institution and covenant ) right of baptism unto his childe . but for the minor or assumption of the argument in hand , it will not hold in either of the senses of the proposition above given . for , . we will readily grant , that if the parent be not in a state of baptism-right himself , i. e. in a state of membership , he cannot convey baptism-right to his childe ; but how manifest is it , that that which the synod hath said in their fifth proposition , doth render the persons there described in a state of right to baptism for themselves , in case they were unbaptized , viz. in a state of membership in the visible church ; for the proposition speaks of church-members , such as were admitted members in minority , and do orderly and regularly so continue : and that a state of membership is a state of baptism-right , or that all church-members are in the state of subjects of baptism , is an evident truth that cannot be denied by any that grant the synods first proposition ; for which there is sun-light in scripture , and never was orthodox divine heard of that questioned it . hence according to that ruled case here mentioned , the parents in question having themselves a title to baptism , may intitle others ; they have not onely a title to it , but regular and actual possession of it , for they are baptized , and in case they were yet unbaptized , they would , being church-members , have a title of right unto it ( they would stand possessed of an interest in a title to it , as mr. hooker in the place here alledged speaks ) whatever might de facto hinder their enjoyment of it . and as à non habente potestatem , acts are invalid ; so ab habente potestatem they are valid and good : but god hath full power to give forth what grants he pleaseth , and he hath in the order of his covenant in the visible church , granted a membership , and so baptism-right unto children born of parents that are members , and so the parent that stands member of the church , hath as an instrument under god , and from his grant , power to 〈◊〉 such a right unto his childe . children are within the covenant , because they come from parents within the covenant , in which they were included , and so received also by god , saith mr. hooker in the place that is here cited . survey , part . . pag. . . it is not to be yielded , that the parents described by the synod in their fifth proposition , would not have right to baptism themselv●s in case they were unbaptized , though you take [ right to baptism ] for actual and immediate fitness for the same in fero ecclesia . surely he will have an hard talk , who shall undertake out of scripture , or orthodox divines , to shew , that adult persons understanding and believing the doctrine of faith , and publickly professing the same , not scandalous in life , and solemnly taking h●ld of the covenant , wherein they give up themselves and theirs to the lord in his church , and subject themselves to christs government therein ; that these ( we say ) may be denied or debarred from church-membership or baptism upon their desire thereof . it is not easie to believe , that the multitudes baptized by iohn baptist and by christ ( i. e. by his disciples at his order ) in the time of their ministry ; or the many thousands of the iews that were counted believers , and baptized after christs ascension ( too much addicted unto judaism , acts . . & . . ) or the numbers baptized by philip in samaria , and by the apostles in other places , upon a short time of instruction , and when they were moved and taken 〈…〉 , and of whom many proved corrupt and degenerate afterward ( as the epistles to the galatians , corinthians , and other places sh●w ) that they did ( we say ) ( at least many of them ) excell the persons described in the synods fifth proposition , taking all things together : or that they had more to render them visible believers upon a just account then those have . but it is a strange reason that is here rendred by our brethren , why that which is set down by the synod would not render a person a subject of baptism , viz. because [ a man may be an unbelie●er , and yet c●me up to all that the synod hath said in their fifth proposition ] we suppose 〈◊〉 magus , a●●ni● and sapphira , and many others , not onely might be , but were unbelievers , and yet were regularly baptized . we marvel what outward signs and professions of faith which the church may proceed upon , can be given , but a man [ may ●e ] an unbeliever , and yet come up unto them ? if it be said , that a man may come up to all that the synod hath said , and yet ●e ecclesiastically judged a visible unbeliever , shew us any ground for such a judgement . touching the opinion of bucer & parker , here cited out of park . de polit. ●cel . lib. . p. , . . in the first passage the word [ apparent . ] is here added , the words in parker are onely [ signes of regeneration ] and the other passage in pag. . runs thus ; a confession of faith , though publick and solemn , may not be received in churches , quando nulla necessaria fidei signs apparent , when as no necessary signs of faith do appear : where by necessary signs of faith , are not meane such signs as have a necessary connexion with faith , or do necessarily ( i. e. infallibly , and certainly ) argue that there is ▪ truth of saving faith in the heart ; such signs men cannot see or judge of , but when there is such an appearance , as that if that be in reality which doth appear to be ( on which seems to be in outward appearance ) then there is true faith ; this is that appearance of necessary signes of faith which he means ; hence within seven lines of the place cited , the same thing is thus expressed ; qua●diu nullo probabili argumento , &c. when as we are by no probable argument given to believe that it is in the heart . . the thing there specially blamed by bucer and parker , is , when a bare verbal profession is accepted , though accompanied with a scandalous life ; and when there is not regard had to the conversation , as well as to the oral confession , as the discourse in the place cited at large shews . . but that which we would chiefly insist on for answer , is , that bucer and parker do there plainly speak of such a confirmation ( or owning men as confirmed members ) as doth import their admission to the lords table , or into full communion ( as we phrase it ) and hence do blame the prelatical way for so much slightness therein : so mr. cotton cites this place of bucer (a) . and so parker a little before this his citation of bucer complains , that although by the english order ( if i mistake not , saith he ) he that is confirmed , is capable of the lords supper ; yet notwithstanding ▪ such are confirmed , if they can but say the catec●ism , who cannot examine themselues , nor rightly prepare themselues for the table of the lord. now it is well known , that in our admissions unto full communion , we are not behind in any thing that bucer and parker do require , but do expect positive comfortable signes of regeneration already wrought , and some experienced fruits thereof ; whereby persons may be in some measure fit for that special and comfortable exercise of grace that is required in preparation for , and participation of the lords table . but suppose that persons born in the church , and baptized , be not yet come up to this , is there any word to be found in bucer or parker , or in any judicious orthodox divine , that they lose their membership , and are put out of the church meerly because they are not come up to this , when as no censurable wickedness is found in them ? and while the parent stands in the church , his infant-childe is in the church also , and therefore baptizable . yet withal we say , with the consent of judicious divines , that while persons have a regular standing in the church , they are in ecclesiastical account to be looked upon as having the being of regeneration , or as fidele● , vocati , and so regenerati , i. e. by reason of their federal holiness , though not by part●cular , present , evident signs of a work of grace already wrought in them : in this case we take their covenant-estate , christian education , hopeful carriage , general profession , &c. for signs of regeneration in this sense , i. e. such as shew that there may be grace , there is nothing inconsistent with grace , and none knows but ● seed of grace ( which in the first infusion , and beginnings of it , is marvellous secret and small ) may lye at bottom : and hence the church is to carry toward them as heires of grace . but it is a further thing for grace to appear above-ground in such exercise and sensible signs , evidences and experiences , as may fit them for comfortable communion w●th christ in the supper . but fourthly , if the judgement of bucer and parker may be taken in this controversie , it will 〈…〉 : for , notwithstanding all that is here , or can be cited of theirs , it is evident enough that famous martin bucer , and renowned parker , ( as the preface styleth them , and that deservedly ) do fully concurre with the synod in extending baptism to such as the synod describes , or to more then so . vid. bucer de regno christi , lib. . cap. . pag. . and in his commentary upon iohn , in an excellent discourse concerning infant baptism , among many other useful passages , he hath these following . sunt quidem sa●e inter pueros reprobi , &c. there are indeed often among children some that be reprobates , but while that does not appear to us , we ought nevertheless to reckon them among the people of god ; and we shall time enough cast them out , when by their evil fruits they shall openly shew us what they are : bucer in joh. fol. . and in another place , quantum equidem assequi possum , &c. as far as i can gather ( saith he ) the anabaptist's onely reason why they dislike infant baptism , is , because they fancy to themselves that the church would be more pure , if we baptized none but the adult , and such as hold forth evidences of the spirit : and so they think but a few would have place in churches . but by this means doubtless it would come to pass , that many of christs sheep would be neglected as goats : neither would all parents be so careful as they think , in educating their children unto piety . and yet this humane thought ( which savours of too much esteem of our own works ) doth so possess them , that they bring all to this , and turn off all that can be said , and hereby they run themselves into very great errours . i called it an humane thought , for no scripture doth command such a curious circumspection , lest any goats should be received into the church . the apostles often baptized persons with whom they had scarce had an hours speech concerning christ ; because , according to the parable of the gospel , they would bring in all they met with to the marriage ( mat. . . ) for by baptism they only took them into the school of piety , and trained-hand of christians ; and they were wont then to cast them out again , when it was evidently enough perceived that to labour in teaching them was in vain . ibid. fol. . as for parker , his speaking mainly against the admitting or tolerating of [ manifestarii peccatores ] the notoriously wicked , and pleading to have them debarred from the lords table , or cast out by the use of discipline (a) : his frequent approbation of the principles of the reformed churches (b) ; and in special his approving of their admitting members ( not before of their body ) upon such like qualifications as are contained in the synods fifth proposition (c) . also his earnest and peremptory rejecting the opinions and principles of the anabaptists and separatists , and declaring himself and the non-conformists , whose cause he acted , to be farre from them (d) . these and such like do clearly shew that worthy man to be no opponent of such an extent of baptism as is contained in the conclusions of the synod . but here our brethren will needs take notice , that the judgment of that worthy and for ever famous mr. cotton was as theirs is , because he hath these words , ( in holiness of church-members , pag. ) i conceive ( under favour ) more positive fruits of regeneration are required in the church-members of the new testament then of the old. ans. the reader will take notice of what hath been before said , and cited to shew mr. cottons judgement in the points controverted between our brethren and the synod , and will easily thereby judge whether mr. cottons judgement was as theirs is : but it is strange they should make such a collection from what is here set down . mr. cotton might say those words that are here expressed , and yet his judgement be farre enough from being as theirs is in any of the points that are controverted : for we shall not gainsay this conception of mr. cottons [ that more positive fruits of regeneration are required in the church members of the new testament , then of the old ] but concur with it in two respects , or for two causes : . because the light now is greater and clearer then it was then , and where more is given , more is required , luke . . . because the discipline appointed under the old testament was mostly ceremonial ( ames medul . lib. . c. . thes. . ) and whether excommunication for moral evils , was then used , at least out of the national church , is by some doubted : as also whether persons were debarred from the holy things simply for moral evils , if they were ceremonially clean ; as mr. cotton in the place here alledged saith , it is true , that it is a question whether sins very scandalous did keep men ceremonially clean from the temple and sacrifices : but under the new testament we have a plain and undoubted rule , for the censure of excommunication for moral evils persisted in : hence persons might haply run further into moral evils ( and so further off from the fruits of regeneration ) then , and yet not be put out of the church ( yea haply not be debarred from the holy things ) then they can do now . but what is all this to the matter in hand ? for still it is not secret irregeneration , nor the bare want of such and such positive fruits of regeneration , without positive and palpable ●ruits of irregeneration , that will ( according to any rule god hath given us ) put any man out of the church , when he is once in . nay , mr. cotton in the very place here cited , expresly saith , that irregeneration alone will not keep a man out : his words are these [ neither amongst us doth irregeneration alone keep any from church-fellowship with us : not irregeneration alone ( i say ) unles it be accompanied with such fruits as are openly scandalous , and do convincingly manifest irregeneration . ] moreover , still the parallel between the church of the old and of the new testament ; stands and holds in this , that when a person is once by gods appointment taken into the visible church ( whether in adult age or in infancy , it comes all to one for that ) he continues in it , and doth not lose his membership , till by some rule or appointment of god in his word he be cut off or cast out . what the particular rules and wayes of cutting off were in the old testament , we need not here dispute , but to be sure the plain rule in the new testament for the cutting off of particular persons , is by the censure of excommunication for moral evils . but while we grant that in some respects more positive fruits in regard of degree might be required in the old testament , let none so understand it , as if regeneration was not required as all unto the constitution and continuation of the visible church in the old testament , but that a meer carnal succession was then allowed of without regard to regeneration . for they sto●d by faith , and were br●ken off by vnbelief as well as we , rom. . circumcision was a seal of the righte●usness of faith , as well as baptism . faith and repentance do not now more constitute the covenant of god , then it did in the time of abraham , who was the father of the faithful , saith dr. ames (b) . yea , our brethren do in their antisynodalia , pag. . expresly say , that the covenant made with abraham , and the circumcision of his seed , was appointed upon the same terms that baptism was , i. e. that he should walk with god by faith and obedience . and it is observeable , that no where is regeneration , and the fruits thereof , required of gods covenant people in stricter and fuller terms then in the old testament , gen. . . deut. . . & . , . kings . . psal. . , . isa. . , . and yet the lord , who is the best interpreter of his own rules , continued them in the church , and accounted them among the number of his holy people , till palpall● , and incorrigible fruits of irregeneration were found with them : and so he doth now . in the sixth place : the application ( saith the preface ) of the seal of baptism unto those who are not true believers ( we mean visibly , for de occultis non judicat ecclesia ) is a profanation thereof , and as dreadful a sin as if a man should administer the lords supper unto unworthy receivers — we marvel that any should think that the blood of christ is not as mu●h profaned and vilified by undue administration of baptism , as by undue administration of the lords supper . ans it will be hard for the redder to gather out of all that is here said , a reason of dissent from the synod : for we readily grant and say , that baptism is not to be applied to any but visible believers ( taking visible believers ▪ as a term equivalent to [ federally holy ] as the term believer or faithful is sometimes in scripture so taken , isa● . . . cor. . . and often in authors ) but that the persons in question , both parents and children , are visible believers , is also by the synod asserted and proved ; and here is nothing said to disprove it . but when as our brethren here say , that the application of the seal of baptism unto those who are not visibly true believers , is a profanation thereof ( in which , being rightly explained , we gainsay them not ) and yet in their 〈◊〉 , pag. . do hold forth , that infants neither have nor can have faith ; it will lye upon them to shew how they apply the seal of baptism to infants without a profanation thereof . it is pity that so many passages are dropt here and there , that do ( though we hope not in their intention ) clas● with the baptizing of i●fants . here is also exprest a marvel , that any should think , &c. but we may answer with a m●rvel that any should speak as if any of us did think that the blood of christ is not profaned by undue administration of baptism , as well as by undue administration of the lords supper : whether as much or no in point of degree , we will not trouble our selves to dispute ; though we suppose the degree of sinful , pollution or profanation of the lords name in any ordinance , will be intended by the degree of special communion that we have with christ in that ordinance , and by the danger that such pollution infers to the whole church , as well as to the particular partaker , which will hardly be denied to be more in the lords supper then in baptism . but whether the profanation be as great or no , to be sure it is very great ▪ and so great as that every pious conscientious person should fear to have any hand in the undue administration of baptism . but where is there any thing to shew that the administration of baptism , pointed to by the synod , is undue ? or that it is an undue administration of b●ptism to extend it further then the lords supper ? or to administer baptism to some unto whom we do not administer the lords supper ? if the rule and institution concerning these two sacraments do extend the one further then the other , as it plainly doth , when it appoints baptism to all disciples , or to run parallel with federal holiness , mat. . . but the lords supper onely to self-examining disciples , cor. . . then the one may be extended further then the other , and yet the administration of the one no more undue , or irregular , and polluting then the administration of the other . surely he that holds , that baptism may , and the lords supper may not be administred unto infants ( as we suppose our brethren do ) he grants that baptism may be extended further then the lords supper , without any such sacrilegio●● impiety , dreadful prof●rtation or prostitution of the blood of christ , as is here ( harshly enough ) exprest . neither did judicious calvin ( part of whose zealous expression against the promiscuous administration of the lords supper , is here cited in the preface ) ever imagine or conceive that it was any such profanation to extend baptism further then the lords supper , yea and further then the synod doth , when as he set down that answer in his catec●ism that is above alledged , and practised accordingly . it is well known the synod doth not ple●d for that largeness in either of the sacraments that calvin allowed : but to extend the one further then the other , was never accounted sacrilegious impiety in orthodox divinity . it is here added ; that austin pleads for strictness in the administration of baptism , and tertullian be●ore him . but did either of them ple●d for greater strictness then the synod doth ? unless where tertullian erroneously and weakly pleads for the delaying of baptism , which is noted (c) for one of his navi . certainly men will say when they look upon what is published by the synod , and their wary qualifying of the fifth proposition ( about which the controversy is ) that they were for much strictness in the administration of baptism , and many will think us too strict . we doubt not but we may safely say , that no man can shew any thing out of austin that will speak him to be against the baptizing of such as the synod pleadeth for : yea , he requireth not more of adult converts from heathenism , for their own baptism , then is in the parents who are described by the synod . that book of his de fide & operibus , is against the baptizing of notorious scandalous livers , whom he would not have baptized ( though seemingly turned from heathenism ) till they seriously promised reformation . but that austin ( in stead of being for more strictness ) holdeth for a larger extent of baptism then the synod doth , might easily be evinced (d) . how strange is it to see their authority still alledged against us , who are not onely fully with us in this matter , but go further then we ! the seventh reason of our brethrens dissent , is this ; it hath in it a natural tendency to the ●ardning of unregenerate creatures , in their sinful natural condition , when life is not onely promised , but sealed to them by the precious blood of iesus christ. baptism is a seal of the whole co●enant of grace , (e) as well as the lords supper and therefore those that are not interested in this covenant by faith , ought not to have the seal thereof applyed to them . ans. . the lords truth and grace , however it may be abused by the corruption of mans perverse and ●inful nature , hath not in it self any natural tendency to harden any , but the contrary . and how can the doctrine in hand have any such natural tendency ? when as men are told over and over , that onely outward advantages and dispensations are sealed to them in baptism more absolutely ( rom. . , . ● . . ) but the saving benefits of the covenant ( or life eternal ) conditionally ( see mr. shepards late printed letter , pag. — . ) so that if they fail of the condition ( viz. eff●ctual and unfeigned faith ) they miss of salvation , notwithstanding their baptism , and external covenant-estate : and hence , that there is no certa●n , but onely a probable connexion between federal holyness ( as applied to particular persons ) and salvation ; that thousands are in the vi●●ble church that shall never see heaven ; that outward priviledges are not to be rested in , but improved●s ●s helps and encouragements to the obtaining of internal and special grace : that the chur●h is to accept of probable signes , but no man for 〈◊〉 is to rest without certain s●gns of grace : hence the indefinite promise , and other general indefinite tokens of a good estate , 〈◊〉 such as decypher that sort of persons that are gracious , and many of whom are so ▪ though many are not , ( ●s ch●ldren of the covenant , professors of the faith &c. ) these are grounds for the church to proceed upon in the dispensation of outward 〈◊〉 , especi●lly that of baptism , that is annexed to the first being of grace ; but they are not grounds for any to rest o● acquie●ce in , as to the salvation of their own soules . in sum , while we keep a due distinction between the outw●rd and inward dispensation of the covenant , and between the respective cond●ti●ns and gr●unds of each , there is no tendency unto hardning therein : but inde●d ▪ 〈…〉 , and do tye visible church-interest unto such conditions and qualifications , as are reputed enough to salvation , this may tend to harden men , and to make them conceit , that if once they be got into the church , they are sure of heaven , when 〈◊〉 it may be they are far from it . . the scriptures give us a contrary assertion to this of our brethren here ; for they tell us , that to deny the children of the church , to have any part in the lord , hath a strong tendency in it , to make them cease from fearing the lord , or to harden their hearts from his fear , iosh. . , , . and that on the other hand , the incouragements and awful obligations of covenant-interest do greatly tend to soft●● and break the heart , and to draw it home unto god. hence the lord often begins with this , that he is their god ( viz. in outward covenant ) and they his people , when he would most powerfully win and draw them to faith and obedience , psal. . , . levit. . , . deut. . , . hosea . . act. . , . and the experiences of many can through grace witness unto this , of what use the consideration of the lords preventing grace in his sealed covenant , and their engagement to him thereby hath been in the day of their turning unto god , so ier. . . & . . gal. . . . there is a natural tendency in mans corrupt heart ( not in this , or any other truth or ordinance of god ) that leads him to turn grace into wantonness , and to abuse outward priviledges and ordinances , unto a self-hardning security and carnal confidence , ier. . . mat. . . rom. . . phil. . , , , . but is this any argument against the lord's or the churches giving men a portion in his temple and ordinances , because they are prone so to abuse them ? confidence in outward visible qualifications for full communion , is but a vain and carnal thing ; yet men are prone enough to it , and had need by the ministry be taken off from it . but shall we therefore deny or scruple their admission thereunto ? . if one should bring such an argument as this against the baptizing of infants , viz. that it will harden them , and bolster them up in their sinful natural condition ; we suppose it would be counted a poor argument , and of no validity ; and yet it holds as well against the baptizing of any infants , as of these in question . if it be said , that the baptizing of these in question hardens the parent ? ans. not at all ( in the way we go ) any more with reference to his childes baptism , then in reference to his own baptism which he received in infancy . for it doth not necessarily affirm that he hath any more then federal holiness , and that he had , when he was an infant , on that ground was he baptized then , and on the same ground is his childe baptized now . if he have any more , he may have the more comfort in it ; but simply to have his childe baptized , on the grounds we go upon , affirms no more but this , because we ground all upon federal holiness , or membership in the visible church . it is true , that baptism is a seal of the whole covenant of grace , as well as the lords supper : but it is as true , . that it is a seal of the covenant of grace , as dispensed in the visible church , or it is a seal of the covenant of grace , as clothed with the external dispensation or administration thereof , and so it doth nextly and immediately seal the external dispensation , or the promises and priviledges that belong thereto ( which are a part of the whole covenant of grace ) and then it seals the inward and saving benefits of the covenant as included in that dispensation , and upon the conditions therein propounded . baptism seals the whole covenant , and whole dispensation thereof , i. e. . the dispensation of it outwardly , to all that have an external standing in the church . . the dispensation and communication of it inwardly , effectually and savingly to all that truely do believe . . that baptism is a seal of entrance into the covenant thus considered . it seals the whole covenant , but by way of initiation ; so dr. ames in the place that is here quoted , medul . lib. . cap. . thes. , . baptism is the sacrament of initiation , or regeneration , for although it do at once seal the whole covenant of grace to the faithful , yet by a singular appropriation it represents and confirms our very ingrafting into christ , rom. . , . cor. . . and thesis . those benefits are sealed by way of initiation , in baptism : and from thence the judicious doctor makes that inference that suits and clears the matter in hand , thes. . hence baptism ought to be administred to all those , unto whom the covenant of grace belongs , because it is the first seal of the covenant now first entred into . baptism is the seal of entrance into covenant , sealing up unto the party baptized , all the good of the covenant to be in season communicated and enjoyed , from step to step , through the whole progress of christianity , from this first beginning thereof , according to the tenour and order of the covenant . hence it belongs to all that are within the covenant , or that have but a first entrance thereinto , children as well as others , though they have not yet such faith and growth , as imports that progress in the covena●t , and fruition of the comfort and ●ruits thereof that is sealed up in the lords supper . we readily grant , and say [ that ●●ne ought to have the seal of baptism applied in th●● , 〈◊〉 those that are interested in the covenant ] and that by faith , unless you can shew us any other way of interest in the covenant , but by faith. but withall , we aff●●m and prove , that the children in question have interest in the covenant , according to the known tenour thereof , gen. . . and therefore that the seal of baptism is to be applied to them . in all this therefore we see no sufficient ground or reason to necessitate a dissent from the synod . our brethren have one thing more yet to adde ; viz. that there is danger of great corruption and pollution creeping into the churches , by the enlargement of the subject of baptism . answ. . and is there no danger of corruption by over-straitning the subject of baptism ? certainly it is a corruption to take from the rule , as well as to adde to it ; and a corruption that our weakness is in danger of . and it is a dangerous thing to be guilty of breaking gods covenant , by not applying the initiating seal unto those it is appointed for , even unto all that are in covenant , gen. . , , . moses found danger in it , exod. . . is there no danger of putting those : out of the visible church , whom christ would have kept in ? and depriving them of those church - advantages ( rom. . , . ) that might help them toward heaven ? even christs own disciples may be in danger of incurring his displeasure , by keeping poor little one● away from him , mark . , . to go pluck up all the tares was a ●ealous motion , and had a good intention , but the housholder concludes , there 's danger in it of plucking up the wheat also . . if the enlargement be beyond the bounds of the rule , it will bring in corruption , else not ; our work is therefore to study the rule and keep close to that , as the onely true way to the churches purity and glory . to go aside from that to the right hand wlll bring corruption as well as to go to the left : the way of anabaptists , viz. to admit none to membership and baptism but adult professors , is the straitest way , and one would think it should be a way of great purity , but experience hath abundantly shewed the contrary ; that it hath been an inl●t to great corruption , and looseness both in doctrine and practice , and a troublesome dangerous underminer of reformation . it is the lords own way , and his institutions onely , which he will bless , and not mans inventions , though never so plausible : neither hath god ( in his wisdome ) so instituted the frame of his covenant , and the constitution of the church thereby , as to make a perfect separation between good and bad , or to make the work of conversion , and initial instruction needless in the churches . conversion 〈◊〉 to the children of the covenant a fruit of the covenant , saith mr co●ton b) . if we do not keep in the way of a converting grace-giving covenant , and keep persons under those church-dispensations wherein grace is given , the church will dye of a lingring , though not of a violent death . the lord hath not set up churches onely that a few old christians may keep one another warm while they live , and then carry away the church into the cold grave with them when they dye : no , but that they might , with all the care , and with all the obligations , and advantages to that care that may be , 〈◊〉 up still successively another generation of subjects to christ that may stand up in his kingdome when they are gone , that so he might have a people and kingdome successively continued to him from one generation to another . we may be very injurious to christ as well as to the souls of men , by too much straitning , and narrowing the bounds of his kingdome or visible church here on earth . certainly enlargement , so it be a regular enlargement thereof , is a very desirable thing : it is a great honour to christ to have many willing subjects ( as these are willing and desirous to be under the government of christ that we plead for ) and very suitable to the spirit and grace of christ in the gospel . in church-reformation , it is an observable truth ( saith ●areus on the parable of the tares ) that those that are for too much strictness , do more bu●t then profit the church . see dioda●e on matt. . . cyprian epist. . . there is apparently a greater ▪ ●anger of corruption to the churches by enlarging the subjects of full communion , and admitting unqualified , or meanly qualified persons to the lords table and voting in the church , whereby the interest of the power of godliness will soon be prejudiced , and elections , admissions , censures , so carried , as will be hazardous thereunto . now it is ev●dent , that this is , and will be the temptation , viz. to ever-enlarge full communion , it baptism be limited to the children of such as are admitted thereunto . and it is easie to observe , that many of the reasonings of our brethren , and others ▪ are more against the non-admission of the parents in question to full communion , then against the admission of their children to baptism . how unreasonable is it then to object against us ●s corrupters of the churches , when we stand for a greater strictness then they in that wherein the main danger of church-corrupting lyes ? we doubt not to affirm , that that principle which hath been held forth by our brethren , viz. [ that if the church can have any hope of persons , that they have any thing of faith and grace i● them , though never so little , they ought , being adult , to be admitted to full communion ] this we say will , if followed , bring corruptions and impurities into churches : for he must abandon all the rules of charity , that cannot hope this of multitudes of young persons that grow up among us , who yet if they were presently admitted to full communion , we should soon feel a change in the management of church●affairs ; and the interest of formality and common profession , would soon be advanced above the interest of the power of godliness . whether we be in the right in this matter of strictness as to full communion , scripture and reason must determine ( and were this the place of that dispute , we have much to say in it , and to be sure , the practice of these churches hitherto hath been for it , as also their profession in the synod in . platform of discipline , cap. . sect. . hence to depart from that , would be a real departure from our former practice and profession : whereas to enlarge baptism to the children of all that stand in the church , is but a progress to that practice that suits with our profession ) but certain it is that we are , and stand for the purity of the churches , when as we stand for such qualifications as we do , in those we would admit to full communion ; and do withstand those notions and reasonings that would inferre a laxness therein , which hath apparent peril in it . but we can hardly imagine what hurt it would do , or what danger of spoiling the churches there is in it , for poor children to be taken within the verge of the church , under the wings of christ in his ordinances , and to be under church-care , and discipline and government for their souls good ; to be in a state of initiation and education in the church of god , and consequently to have baptism , which is the seal of initiation ; when as they shall not come to the lords table , nor have any hand in the management of church-affairs ( as elections of officers , admissions , and censures of members ) untill as a fruit of the foresaid help and means , they attain to such qualifications as may render their admission into full communion safe and comfortable , both to their own souls , and to the churches . in sum , we make account , that if we keep baptism within the compass of the non-excommunicable , and the lords supper within the compass of those that have ( unto charity ) somewhat of the power of godliness ( or grace in exercise ) we shall be near about the right middle-way of church-reformation . and as for the preservation of due purity in the church , it is the due exercise of discipline that must do that , as our divines unanimously acknowledge , for that is gods own appointed way ( and the lord make and keep us all careful and faithul therein ) not the curtailing of the covenant , which may be man's way ; but is not the way of god wherein alone we may expect his blessing . the good lord pardon the imperfections and failings that attend us in these debates ; accept of what is according to his will , and establish it ; save us from corrupting extremes on either hand , and give unto his people one heart and one way to fear him for ever , for the good of them and of their children after them . errata in the book following . page . line . their infancy , reade from infancy . pag. . lin . . he added r. here added . pag. . lin . . there r. here . pag. . lin . . his r. this . pag. . lin . . of that r. of the pag. . lin . . do run r. do not run . pag. . lin . . do administer r. so administer . in answ. to the preface . pag. . lin . . mor r. more . pag. . lin . ult . into r. unto . a defence of the answer and argvments of the synod , met at boston in the year . concerning the subject of baptism , and consociation of churches : against the reply made thereto , by the reverend mr. iohn d●venpor● , in his treatise , entituled , another essay for investigation of the truth , &c. the reverend author in this his essay , before he come to speak to that which the synod delivered , doth premise eleven or twelve positions , by which ( he saith ) the determinations of the synod are to be examined , and so far , and no further to be approved and received , as a consent and harmony of them with th●se may be cleared , &c. pag. . concerning which positions we will not say much , because the intendment in this def●nce , is onely to clear what is said by the synod , against what this reverend author saith against the same in his 〈◊〉 ; and therefore untill he speak to what the synod delivered , we think it not needful to insist long upon these premised positions . onely this we may say concerning them , that though su●dry things in them be sound and good , yet the posi●ions themselves being not scripture , but his own private collections , therefore we do not see that we are bound to take these positions ▪ as the standard and rule , by which to judge of what the synod saith : but if the synods doctrine be agreeable to scripture , we think that may be sufficient for defence thereof , whether it agree with the premised positions , or not . and when himself , pag. . doth commend it as a good profession in the synod , that , to the law and to the testimony they do wholly referre themselves ; had it not been also commendable in him to have done the like , rather then to lay down positions ( though he conceives them rightly deduced from scripture ) and then to say , nothing is to be approved further then it consents with those positions ? himself may please to consider of this . but to leave this of the premised positions , and to come to the main business ; concerning the subject of baptism , the first proposition of the synod is this , viz. they that according to scripture are members of the visible church , are the subjects of baptism : the second is this : viz. the members of the visible church according to scripture , are confederate visible believers , in particular churches , and their infant-seed , i. e. children in 〈◊〉 ▪ whose next parents , one or both , are in covenant . now what saith the reverend author to these ? that which he saith , is this : i cannot approve the two first propositions , without some change of the terms : in the first , thus ; they that according to christs ordinance , are regular and actuall members , &c. the second , thus ; the actuall and regular members of the visible church , according to christs ordinance , &c. pag. . answ. so that the alteration required , is , that in stead of [ scripture ] it be said [ christs ordinance ] and in stead of [ members ] [ actuall and regular members . ] but a necessity of this alteration doth not appear : for , as for the one particular , can we think that th●re i● any such difference between the scripture , and the ordinance of christ , that 〈◊〉 may be members of the visible church , and so subjects of baptism , according to the f●●er , and yet not according to the la●ter● ▪ if it be according to the scripture , may it not ●e said to be according to christs ordinance ? sure , when christ himself bids us search the scripture , job . . . and when the bereans are commended for searching the scripture , whether those things were so , which were preached by paul , acts . . and when all the scripture is for our learning , rom. . . and doth contain a perfect rule in all things that concern gods worship , whether natural , or instituted , as this reverend author saith , in the first of his premised positions ; upon these grounds it may seem , that what is according to scripture , needs not to want our approbation , for fear left it agree not with the ordinance of christ. and indeed , how can that be taken for an ordinance of christ , which is not according to scripture ? that being considered also , which is said by the reverend author in his second position , that whatsoever christ did institute in the christian churches , he did it by gods appointment , as moses by gods appointment , gave out what he delivered in the church of israel . now if all that is instituted by christ , be according to gods appointment , and that the scripture contains a perfect rule concerning all instituted worship , and so concerning all gods appointments ; it may seem a needless thing to withhold our approbation from that which is according to scripture , as if it might be so , and yet not be according to the ordinance of christ. besides , how shall we know a thing to be an ordinance of christ , if it be not according to the scripture ? and for the other alteration desired , that in stead of [ members ] it be [ regular and actuall members ] may we think that men may , or can be members according to scripture , and not regular , nor actuall members ? if the scripture be the rule , and ● perfect rule , then they that are members according to scripture , are members according to rule , and so are regular members . and if actuall be contradistinct from potentiall ; then they that are members according to scripture , are actuall members , and not onely potentiall , or potentially such : for , such potential members the scripture approveth not . upon these grounds , we see no necessity of the alteration fore-mentioned . propos. . the infant-seed , &c. when grown up are personally under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . arg. . children were under patriarchall and mosaical discipline of old , &c. reply . the text alledged ( viz. gen. . . & . , . . and gal. . . ) do not prove the antecedent , viz. that children were under patriarchal and mosaical discipline , p. . ans. and yet for the one of these , the reverend author confesseth , in answer to this argument , pag. . . that the members of the church in the patriarchs families , were to continue in communion with the church from their being circumcised , all the dayes of their life , untill they were cast out , as ishmael — or voluntarily departed from it , as esau. and doth not this sufficiently imply , that children in those churches , when adult , were under discipline in those churches ? for , can we think that those churches had no church-discipline in them ? or that the members of them were not under that discipline ? or the children , when grown up , were not members ? sure , if they continued in communion with the church from their being circumcised , all the dayes of their life , until they were cast out , or did voluntarily go away ; then it was not meer growing up to be adult , that caused their church-relation , or communion with the church , to cease . and if their communion with the church did not cease , but continue , how can it be avoided but they were under church-discipline ? where shall we finde ground from scripture or good reason , that these children , when adult , did still continue in communion with the church , and yet were not under the church-discipline that then was ? it seems to us , that the one of these , which the reverend author doth expresly affirm , doth unavoidably imply the other , which is affirmed by the synod . there might be many children in those families of the patriarchs , who when they were adult , were neither cast out , as ishmael , nor departed , as esau ; and these continuing in communion with the church all the dayes of their life , from their being circumcised , as the reverend author saith they did , they were therefore under the church-discipline that then was . and if they might be cast out , as ishmael was , gen. . as the reverend author confesseth ; it cannot be denied but that there was discipline in those churches , and that children , when grown up , were subject thereto : for , as for that which the reverend author suggesteth , pag. . that ishmael being thirteen years old when he was circumcised , was then admitted into church-fellowship and full communion by his personal covenanting , being at years of discretion . the answer is , that it is very unusual that children at thirteen years of age should be fit for full communion . and as for ishmael , there is no such thing testified of him in the scripture ; but on the contrary , when the lord saith , he should be a wilde man , and his hand against every man , and every mans hand against him , gen. . & when as he soon after became such a mocker and persecutor , gen. . gal. . as that for it he was cast out , gen. . it is therefore not very probable that he at thirteen years of age had so much goodness in him , as that upon the profession thereof he should then be admitted to full communion . it seems to us more probable , considering the things mentioned , that he was admitted as a childe in minori●y , by vi●tue of the covenant with abraham and his seed ▪ and yet when grown up , he was so under discipline , as to be cast out for his wickedness . and for that other of mosaicall discipline , the reverend author confesseth , p. , . that all the grown members of the church of israel were brought under such discipline , as was established in that church by a solemn covenant , whereof all adult persons were to take hold personally . and if all the grown members of that church were brought under such discipline as was then established , then the other particular in the antecedent , that children were u●der mosaicall discipline , is here also confessed by the author . indeed , he conceiveth they were brought under discipline by covenanting personally ; but that is not clear : but for the thing it self , that they were under discipline , this we see is by him confessed ; which is that which the synod affirmed . and why may not that text , gal. . . be a sufficient proof thereof ? if they that were circumcised , were bound to all the duties of the law , as the text affirmeth ; then they were bound to that ecclesiastical discipline that the law of moses appointed : and therefore children being circumcised , were so bound , even when they were adult , for then they remained circumcised . there are good expositors who upon that text do teach , that circumcision was an obligation to the keeping of all the commandments of the law in the old testament , and that baptism is the like for all the commandments of the gospel : see paraeus , and perkins in loc . whereby it appeareth ; that what discipline was under the old testament , children circumcised in infancy were subject thereto , when adult , as being bound by their circumcision to all the commandments of the law. so much for defence of the antecedent in this argument . but , saith the reverend author , though the antecedent were more manifestly true , yet the consequent is not good ; for there is not par ratio , the like reason of those patriarchal and mosaical churches , and of congregational churches under the gospel , page . ans. and yet the reverend author confesseth in position the fifth and sixth , that the covenant of abraham was the same in substance under the law , and under the gospel : and , that the kingdome of god , is the same in substance which is taken from the iews , and given to the gentiles ; yea , and that baptisme is come in the place of circumcision , and therefore infants of confederates are now to be baptized , as then they were to be circumcised , they being both outward seales of the same covenant in substance . so that here seems to be a plain acknowledgment that there is par ratio , though in the place in hand it be denied . for , if the covenant be for substance the same now as it was then , and that therefore baptism may be now dispensed to infants , as circumcision was then , those ordinances being both seales of the same covenant for substance ; is not this an acknowledgment of a par ratio between them ? and if so , what should hinder but that children , when grown up , may as well be under church-discipline now , as under the old testament ? for , may they be now baptized in their infancy , as then they were circumcised , because there is in both par ratio ? and might they be then under church-discipline , and yet now not so , because here there is not par ratio ? is poedobaptisme in the new testament , rightly inferred from the circumcision of infants in the old testament , because here there is par ratio between them ? and is not their subjection to church-discipline , when adult , in the new testament , rightly inferred from the like subjection in the old ? it doth not appear that there is any want of par ratio in the one case , any more then in the other . as for that which is here immediately brought in pag. . to prove that there is not , par ratio ; viz. because the members of the church , in the patriarchs families , were to continue in communion with the church all the dayes of their life , until they were cast out , as ishmael or voluntarily departed from it , as esau. we conceive this is no proof at all of the disparity alledged ; and the reason is , because we say the very same concerning the children of church-members in these dayes , viz. that they still continue in the church all the dayes of their life , if they be not cast out in a gospel way , which he doth not disprove . and therfore in this there is no want of par ratio . and for the proof of disparity between the church of israel , and our churches , viz. . that we do not read of any ordinance given them , for casting out members for sins against the moral law. and . that the grown members of that church were brought under such discipline as was established in that church , by a solemn covenant , whereof all adult persons were to take hold personally . the answer is ; touching the former of these , that sundry things may be said to shew , that it is very probable that in israel there was appointed of god an ordinance of church-censure or d●scipline , not only for sins against the ceremoniall law , but also against the moral ; for , the lord doth so of●en , and earnestly command holiness and purity to that people , and so often and severely reproveth the contrary , and that not only in the offenders themselves , but also in them that suffered it , and this not only in ceremonial matters , but also in sins against the moral law , that it is not very probable that he would have no church-discipline used for such matters as these , but only for ceremonial . is it likely , that if a man should eat leavened bread in the time of the passeover , that for this he must be cut off from the congregation , as exod. . , . or if a man should touch a dead body , or a bone of a man , or a grave , &c. that this were such uncleanness , as that he must not then enter into the tabernacle or temple , but , if he did , it would be a defiling of the sanctuary of the lord , and therefore such offenders must be cut off from their people ? and yet nevertheless , if a man had killed another man , or had committed the sin of whoredome , or drunkeness , or other abomination , that yet there was no such uncleanness in these as to defile the sanctuary , or to cause a man to be kept out , or cut off , or cast out for the same ? this seems to us not very probable . and yet if it were certain and clear , that so it was in those times , the purpose for which this is alledged is not gained thereby , but the consequence questioned may be sound and good for all this . the consequence is , that if children were under mosaical discipline of old , then they are under congregational discipline now : this is the synods argument . but , saith the answer , this consequence is not good , because mosaical discipline was not to cast men out for sins against the moral law : but , say we , the argument and consequence may be good for all this ; for , suppose there were this difference between the mosaical discipline that was then , and the congregational discipline that is now , that the former were onely for ceremonial uncleanness , and the lat●er for moral ; yet , if children were under the discipline that was then , we conceive they are therefore under the church-discipline that is now : and we think this arguing to be better , and more strong , then to say , that because they are not under such discipline as was then , that therefore now they are under none at all . and plain it is , that the apostle a●gueth for the maintenance of the ministry now under the gospel , from the maintenance of the ministry that was under moses , cor. . . and sheweth the danger of unworthy receiving our sacraments , from the evil that b●fell many who were partakers of the baptism , and the spirituall meat and drink that was then , cor. . , , &c. and if he argue from the ministry and sacraments that we●e under moses ; why i● not the argument also good from the mosaicall discipline ? we cannot think the apostle ▪ s consequence might be denied , because we have now no such holy things ; no such temple and altar as was then ; no such baptism in the cloud , and in the sea ; no such mann● , and water out of the rock , as they had : to deny the consequence of the apostle's argument upon any such ground , we think were very insufficient ; and therefore why may not the consequence be good , from the subjection of children to mosaical discipline , to prove their subjection to new-testament-discipline ; although it were granted , that their discipline were onely for ceremonial matters , and that we have none such , but onely for sins against the moral law ? for ought we see , the argument and consequence is good in this case , as well as in the other . the other particular alledged by the reverend author , to shew a difference between the church of israel , and our churches , and that therefore children , when adult , might be under mosaical discipline , but not under congregational ▪ is this : because in that church grown members were brought under such discipline as was established in that church by a solemn covenant , whereof all adult persons were to take hold personally . p. . ans. it is not clear , nor at all said in the place alledged , viz. d●ut . . , , . that by the entring into covenant there mentioned , they were brought under the church-discipline in that church , but they might be under church-discipline otherwise , even by the commandment and ordinance of god , and not meerly by that covenant , or by means of it . for , if that covenant were entred into in the day of their bringing the tythes of the third year , which is spoken of in the verses immediately preceding , viz. ver . , , , . then it could not be that covenant that brought all adult persons under discipline : for , a man might be adult , and yet not have any tythes to bring ; as not having yet any personal estate or possession of his own , as we see it often is with us ; yea , a man might be adult , and have estate and tythes two years afore this , for this that is here spoken of was the tythes of the third year . now if a man were adult and had personal estate afore this time , or adult and had yet no estate , and that this covenant was onely entred into at that third year of tything , then ● cannot be that by this covenant they were brought under discipline , for they were adult , and so under discipline afore . or if the covenant here mentioned , were not entred into at the third year of tything ; then why might it not be of all the people joyntly together , and not of any particular persons severally by themselves ? there is nothing in the text contrary to this , but rather for it , in that the covenancer here spoken of , is avouched that day to be the lords peculiar people , ver . , . which title of [ people ] is not suitable to any particular person . and sure it is , that covenant deut . , , &c. was of all the people joyntly together , for it was a covenant not onely with men , but with women , yea with little children , and with such as were not there that day , but with posterity that should be afterward born ; and therefore this was not onely a covenant of the adult , to bring them under church-discipline as if else they had not been under it , but being also with little ones , that were then in minority , it might suffice to bring them under discipline when they should be grown up . so that nothing doth yet appear , to prove that ●●ult persons in israel were not under discipline in that church , but by their taking hold of the covenant personally ; but for ought that doth yet appear , they might be under discipline afore they had thus done . therefore we yet see not any such disparity between the patriarchall and mosaicall churches formerly , and the congregationall churches under the. new testament , but that from the subjection of children , when adult , unto church-discipline in the former , may be justly inferred their subjection thereto in the latter . so much for defence of the synods first argument , to prove that children of church-members , when adult , are under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . to the second argument , to prove children when adult subject to church-discipline ; viz. because they are within the church , or members thereof , and therefore subject to church-judicature , cor. . . the answer that is given , is , that the argument is to be denied , and the text alledged doth not prove it . ans. the words of the text are express and plain , what have i to do to judge them also that are without ? do ye not judge them that are within ? but them that are without god judgeth . by which it is plain , and undeniable , that though those that are without be not subject to church-judicature , or church-discipline , yet for those that are within it is otherwise : and therefore , if these children be within , to deny them to be subject to church-judicature , is to deny the words of the holy ghost . as for that which is here said , that by [ them within ] is meant members in full communion , such as are in full membership , as well of all other ordinances , as of censures : our answer is , that this should be proved , as well as affirmed , for , affirmanti incumbit probatio . it was wont to be said , non est distinguendum ubi lex non distinguit : distinctions should be warranted by the word ; therefore when the word saith , such as are within , are subject to church-judicature , to restrain this being within , to those that are in full communion in all ordinances , and to exempt many others , though adult persons , and within the church , onely because they are not so with●n , as to be in full communion ; we say , to exempt them upon this ground from church-judicature , is more then we see any sufficient proof for . as for the reason here rendred , that excommunication is a casting out from communion , and therefore how can any be formally excommunicated , who were never in communion , and so within the church ? the answer is , that the synod doth not here expresly speak of excommunica●●o● , and that the children are subject to that ordinance ; but onely saith , they are under the watch , discipline and gove●nment of the church , and therefore there was no need here to answer , that they cannot be excommunicated : for , if that were so , ( which we are farre from granting ) yet what the synod here saith , may be true f●r all this . and th●ugh ●t be true , that such as were never in church-communion at all , cannot properly be excommunicated ; yet the reverend author , we suppose , doth not , nor will deny , but that many who have never yet been p●rtakers of all ordinances , or of the lord● supper as children in minority , yet may be counted church-member● , and so have much church-communion , and enjoy much benefit thereby ; as the covenant , and baptism the seal thereof ; the prayers , and blessing of the church ; church-watchfulness , to excite them , and encourage them to , and in good , and to reclaim them from evil : such church-communion as this , they may be partakers of , who y●● have not been admitted to full communion ; and therefore what impossibility is there in it , but that men may be excommunicated , viz. from such communion as they had , though they never had such full communion as others . if a parent in full communion be justly , for some delinquency , excommunicated , we suppose the reverend author * will say , that his children in minority are cut off from their membership with him , and so are excommunicated with the pa●ent . and if so , then there may be excommunicatio● , where there never was the enjoyment of full communion . and so for all that is here said , [ that pe●sons not in full communion cannot be excommun●ca●ed ] yet what the synod saith may be true , that persons not in full communion may be under the watch , and discipline , and government of the church : and how much more if even such persons may be cut off from their church-membership , and so from what church-communion they had ? to the third argument , to prove children of church-members , when adult , to be under the watch , discipline , and government of the church ; viz. because they are disciples , and therefore under discipline in christs school . the reverend author's answer hath in it a concession , and an exception : the concession is , that all church-members are disciples , infants foeder●lly , &c. and therefore both are under the discipline of the church suitably to their membership . now if all church-members be disciples , and therefore under d●scipline , and even infants so in their way ; it is strange , that these that their infancy are now become adult , should now be n● disciples , nor church-members , and so not under church-discipline , which before they were under ; when as they have neither been cut off from their membership and discipleship , nor deserving any such matter : one would think it were more rational to say , that as they were in church-relation when infants , so they continue therein , though adult ; except in some way of god they be cut off therefrom , and do so deserve . but though the reverend author yield , as is said , yet he puts in this exception ; that he findes not any where in scripture , that such adult persons are styled disciples , or accounted members . ans. suppose such term or title were not found applied to the persons spoken of , yet sith for the thing it is confessed that they were disciples and members when infants , is it not more rationall to confess they are so still ( except the scripture said the contrary ) and that they so continue ( though the term and title be not found ) untill they be upon desert cut off , or cast ou● , rather then to say , that now being adult , they have lost the relation and priviledge which they had when they were infants , though they have not been cut off from it , nor ever so deserved before men ? for , if they incur such loss by becoming adult , it may seem it were good for members children to dye in their infancy , and never live to be adult ; sith in their infancy they had church-relation , and covenant-state , which now they have lost , though without their desert . the adult disciples , in mat. . must observe , and do all christs commandments , therefore the disciples there intended , w●th reference to adult persons , are members in full communion , pag. . ans. this arguing is but too lik● to that of the antipoedobaptists : for it is well known how they would exclude infants by this text , from being partakers of bap●ism , because they are not d●sciples so , made by teaching , or by being taught to observe all christs commandments ; because infants cannot do this , therefore , say they , they are not disciples to be baptized . but the reverend author confesseth , that i●fants are disciples ; and , as such , are to be baptized . why then should he say that now , when they are become adult , they are disciples no longer , as not observing all christs commandments , not being in full communion ? the arguing of the antipoedopaptists from this text is to this purpose , viz. all disciples that are to be baptized , ●●e taught to observe all christs commandments ; but this doth not agree to infants : therefore infants are no● disciples that are to be baptized . and is not the arguing of the reverend author much like it ? viz. all adult persons that are disciples , do observe all ch●ists commandments : but this doth not agree to such adult persons as are not in full communion : therefore adult persons that are not in full communion are not disciples . the conclusion in the former arguing , the reverend author we are confident will not own ; and therefore the conclusion in the latter , being so l●ke unto it , one answer may serve for both the arguments ; which is this , that the major propositions in both do not universally and absolutely hold but onely so far as the persons are capable ; so far all disciples that are to be baptized , and all adult persons that are disciples , are to observe all christs commandments : but as this doth not exclude infants from being disciples , and from being baptized ; so neither are the adult person ▪ spoken of excluded from being disciples , though neither the one nor the other be yet fit for observing all christs commandments , in full communion , in all the ordinances . to the fourth argument ; they are in church-covenant , therefore subject to church-power , gen. . . & . . the answer is , that they are not in covenant dejure , being adult , and not admitted into church-communion in all ordinances . ans. and yet the text saith , the covenant of abraham is with him , and his seed in their generations , gen. . . and this reverend author will not deny , but that those that are in the covenant in their infancy , are thereby left under engagement to service and subjection to christ in his church , when they shall be grown up , and that this engagement upon them is strong — to know the god of their parents , and to serve him with a perfect heart and a willng mind p. . so that if they do it not , but live in neglect or contempt of the ordnances , or unsuitable conversation , they hereby live in the breach of that covenant , whereby they were left under engagement in their infancy , pag . ● . now if this be so , it plainly appeareth hereby , that as they were in the covenant in ●h●● i●fancy , they are likewise so when adult ; for else , how could their sins of omission or commission be breach of that covenant ? can a man be guilty of breaking covenant , when he is not 〈◊〉 but the sins of these adult persons are breach of covenant , therefore they are in the covenant : therefore that cannot stand which is here said , that these adult persons , that were in covenant in their infancy , are not now in covenant when adult , until they be admitted into church-communion in all ordinances . to the fifth argument , viz. they are subjects of the kingdome of christ , and therefore under the laws and government of his kingdom● , ezek. . , . the answer is , that this argument may be retorted against themselves , and the proofs of it , thus : the subjects of christs kingdome have full communion in all the priviledges of christs kingdome , but these adult persons have not so , ex-confesso , therefore they are not subjects ●f christs kingdome , and so are not under the laws and government of it . ans. the sum is , the subjects of christs kingdome have full communion in all the priviledges of christs kingdome : but the adult persons spoken of have not such communion : e●go . but is this true , that a●● the subjects of christs kingdome have full communion in all the priviledges of it , even in all , and not in some onely , i. e. in all ordinances ? what shall be said then of little children ? must they have communion in all church-priviledges , and all ordinances , as the lords supper , voting in elections , &c. or else be no subjects of christs kingdome ? it is plain , that such communion they cannot have ; and yet it is as plain , that of such is the kingdome of go● , and of christ , and therefore he would have them to be brought unto him , and rebuked those that would have kept them from him , mark and therefore persons may be subjects of christs kingdome , and yet not have communion in all th● ordinances , or priviledges of that kingdome . and therefore the adult persons spoken of , may be subjects of christs kingdome , though not yet fit for all ordinances ; and yet being ●ubjects , must be subject to such laws of that kingdome as are suitable to their state , as infants and little children to such as are suitable to theirs . exclude these adult persons from being under the laws and government of christs kingdome , because they have not communion in all the priviledges of it , and by the same reason we may exclude infants : allow infants to be subjects of christs kingdome , and partakers of some priviledges of it , viz. such as they are capable of , though not of all ; and then why may not the like be yielded concerning the adult persons spoken of ? to the sixth argument , the answer returned , is , that this is the same with the third , and therefore the same answer may serve for this also . ans. if this were so , then our defence of the third , may be a defence of this also : nevertheless , it seemeth this argument is not the same with the third , but distinct from it , the mediums in them not being the same , but distinct : for in the one , the argument is from their being disciples , or scholars , and therefore under discipline in christs school ; but this here is from their being baptized , and that therefore they are in a state of subjection to the authoritative teaching of christs ministers , and to the observation of all his commandment● , and that therefore they are in a state of subjection to discipline : for thus the argument stands ; they that are baptized , are thereby left in a state of subject on to the authoritative teaching of christs ministers , and to the observation of all his commandments , and therefore in a state of subjection to discipline : but the adult persons spoken of are persons baptized : therefore , &c. the p●op●si●ion is grounded on the text , mat. . , . where christs ministers are required to bap●ize , and to teach the baptized to observe all his commandments . the assumption is plain of it self . to the seventh argument , viz. that elders must seed , i. e. both teach and rule all the flock ; and that children are part of the flock . the reverend author answereth , that this concerneth not such grown persons as are not in full communion , for without this they are not to be accounted of the flock or church . ans. if this that is here said were sufficiently and clearly proved , it would be very acceptable to many elders in this country , as clearing them from a great part of the burthen which they suppose themselves to be under . and when the holy-ghost saith , that they must take heed to themselves and to all the flock , act. . and that they must watch for their souls , as they that must give account , heb. . . to say , that these soules , and this flock , are only such as are in full communi●n , and infants or children in minority ; and that these last mentioned ▪ who then were of the flock , do now cease to be of it , when they become ●aul ; and that now the elders are not charged to watch over them any longer , nor to give account of their soules , we fear this would be an undue straitning and limiting of the texts alledged , and would be no good plea before the lord ; and therefore without b●t●er proof , we dare not assent unto it . for what the synod alledgeth , " that the apostle writing to the f●ock or church at ephesus , doth also write to children , eph. . . as counting them part of the flock : we do not see that this is sufficiently taken off , by what the reverend author answereth , viz. that those children were either children in their minority , or if adult , they were personally joyned to the church , and so in full communion . for , let the words and scope of the text be considered , and we conceive it will appear , that this exposition of the place is too narrow ; for the children there spoken of , are such as were bound to obey their parents in the lord , this being right , and such as were under the fifth commandment ; the words whereof the apostle doth there alledge , honour thy father and mother , &c. now how shall it appear , that though children in minority , and children when admitted into full communion in the church , are bound to obey their parents , and to honour father and mother , yet other children are not so bound ? is there any ground for it , that children now adult , if not in full communion in the church , are exempted from this commandment of obedience to their parents , and of ho●ouring of them ? we conceive there is none : and if there be not , then the children there spoken of , are children adult as well as others , w●ether in full communion or not . and if so , then these children , as well as others , are part of the flock and church of ephesus , to whom that epistle is written , and then the whole flock being under the charge of elders to feed them ( i. e. both to teach and k●l● them ) it appeareth thereby , that what the synod here saith , that these children are under the watch , and discipline , and government of the church , is sound and good , and so stands , for all that is here alledged to the contrary . in answer to the eighth argument , from the danger of irreligion and apostacy breaking into churches , and the want of any church-way to prevent and heal the same , if these children of church-members be not under church-government and discipline , and that through want hereof , many church-members would be brought under that dreadfull judgement of being let-alone in their wickedness . hos. . , . the reverend author nameth sundry other means for preventing these evils ; as , that no adult person● be received into personal membership , till fit for all church-communion ; and that the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , which christ hath left to binde and loose , be rightly managed toward delinquent-members that are orderly admitted into church-communion ; and for others that are not thus joyned to the church , that authority in families and common-wealth be wisely and faithfully managed toward such , pag. , . ans. all these we acknowledge may , by the blessing of god , be much available in their way for ●he pu●pose ●lledged : and , oh that there were due care and wa●ch●●●lnes● in churche● ▪ families , and common-wealth , for the faithful and due exercise hereof ! nevertheless , we conceive all these are not ●●fficien● for the purpose desired ; . because some of them are not church-wayes at all ▪ of which the synods argument speaketh ; though it is not so expressed by the reverend author : and therefore t●ough government in families and common-wealth were carefully used in the manner expressed , yet church-way may be wanting for all this . . those church-wayes that are mentioned , viz. care in admitting into the church , and due managing the keyes of discipline to them that are so admitted , these are not sufficient to prevent the evils spoken of ; and the reason is , because there is a great multitude of persons who were either born in the church , or were admitted thereinto in their infancy or minority , who if they be not under church-discipline when adult , are let alone in their wickedness , in respect of any church-way to heal them ; and by want of this church-discipline toward these persons , i●religion and apostacy may break into the churches , notwithstanding all church-wayes toward others , and all other wayes in common-wealth and families toward these : for , church-way for the good of these there is none , if they be not under church-government and discipline . as for that which is here said by the reverend author , that the churches censuring of adult persons , admitted before they be qualified for communion in all ordinances , will not prevent or heal those evils , seeing the lord blesseth onely his own institutions , not mens devices ; and that humane inventions usually cause the evils which they pretend to cure , pag. . this reason may have in it self a truth ; viz. that gods institutions , and not mens inventions , are the way wherein men may expect a blessing . but , if such a thing be affirmed of church-discipline toward the persons spoken of , that such church-discipline is an humane invention , why should this be affirmed and not proved ? for , as for the persons spoken of , they were not first admitted when adult , but before they were adult , even in their infancy or minority ; and now being adult , and yet never cut off , or cast out from their church-relation , if by sin they deserve church-censure , and yet it be not applied to them , but that , in respect thereof , they be let alone , are they not then under that judgement , hos. of being ●e● alone in their wickedness ? and doth not this neglect make way for i●religion and apostacy in churches , no church-way being used toward these for prevent●ng thereof ? for we do not see any ground to think , that the use of church disc●pline toward such is an humane invention . for these particulars to us do seem plain : . that church-discipline should be used toward all that are within the church , as there may be occasion and need of it , and as in respect of understanding and age they are capable . . it is plain also , that the persons spoken of were once within the church , and , as such , were baptized in their infancy ; this cannot be denied , but by joyning with the antipoedobaptists , in denying the ba●●●sm and church-memb●rship of little children . and lastly , it is plain also , that the persons spoken of , though now they be adult , were never yet , in any way of god , cast out , or cut off from the church , and the relation to it which they formerly had ; and many of them are far from deserving any such matter . now though church-government and church-discipline toward such as were never in the church , might be counted an humane d●vic● , yet for such as were once according to order and divine institution within it , as members thereof , and never were since st●out of 〈◊〉 , or cut off f●om that relation ( which is the case of the persons spoken of ) to say , that church-government and church-discipline toward such , is an humane inven●io● , we see no sufficient reason either so to say or think ; but do rather conceive , that this church-discipline is so far from being an humane invention , that the neglect thereof , is a neglect of a divine institution ; and that a● sowning of 〈◊〉 personspunc ; and declaring of them to be non-members , which some speak for ) if this be not a church-censure , what is it other then an humane invention and device ? so much for defence of what is said by the synod in their third proposition , to prove , that the children of church-members , when grown up , are under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . propose . the fourth proposition of the synod , is , that these adult persons are not therefore to be admitted to full communion , meerly because they are and continue members , without such further qualifications as the word of god requireth thereunto . by which proposition of the synod , there is a preventing of an usual objection from the danger of polluting the ordinances by unworthy partakers , if the children of church-members be counted members , and to be ( as such ) under church-watchfulness and government when adult ; for some may think , that if this their relation to the church be granted , there will then be danger that they will also come to the lords supper afore they be duely qualified for that ordinance : now the scope of this fourth proposition is to prevent this evil ; and therefore it is the more to be admired , that the proposition should not be granted by the reverend author , and by all that desire the lords supper may be preserved from unworthy partakers , as we do not doubt but he doth . but why then is this proposition stuck at ? if it may not be granted , that these adult persons are not to be admitted to f●ll communion without such qualifications as the word of god requireth thereunto , which is what the synod saith ; must the contrary to this be granted , that they may be admitted thereunto without such qualifications at all ? we suppose the reverend author would not grant this : and yet he doth not consent to the other , but excepts against the proofs of it . for , saith he , though this proposition seems to them plain , yet it seems not sufficiently cleared by their proofs : . from cor. . , . where it is required , that such as come to the lords supper , be able to examine themselves , and discerne the lords body , else they will eat and drink unworthily , and eat and drink judgement to themselves , when they partake of this ordinance : but this ability is too of●●n seen to be wanting in the c●ildren of the covenant that grow up to years , pag. , . to this argument the reply of the reverend author is by way of concession , and of exception . his concessions are two : . that the want of such abilities in the children of the covenant , is indeed too often seen , through the too frequent neglect of parents in their education , and of ministers and churches in their institution , ( or instruction ) and catechizing , and watching over them , pag. . ans. it seems then that the children of church-members , even when they are grown up to years ( for it is of such that the synods argument here speaketh , and so the reverend author doth express it ) are not only under the education of parents , but also under the institution , catechizing and watch of the ministry , and of the church ; how then will that stand which was said before , pag. . that when they are grown up , they are not under the watch , discipline and government of the church ? for here it is granted , that they are under the watch of the church ( and if under church-watch properly as such , then under discipline ) and that the neglect of ministers and churches herein , is one cause of their want of ability to examine themselves , and to discern the lords body . now can the neglect of church-watchfulness be a cause of this evil , if the lord have not appointed them to be under the same ? these things seem not well to agree . again , if the want of such abilities be too often seen in the children of the covenant when grown up , as is here acknowledged ; then what the synod here saith seems to be true , and stand good , that such grown persons , though children of the covenant , or church-members , are not therefore to be admitted to full communion : the reason is , because notwithstanding this , they may want that ability that is requisite to such full communion . . the second concession here is , that membership is separable from , yea destitute of such-ability in the infant-seed or children of the covenant , in their minority , and therefore they are not to be admitted to the lords supper ; and that text ( viz. cor. ● . , . ) proves it . ans. doth that text prove that infants , and children in minority , though members of the church , are not yet to be admitted to the lords supper , because they are not able to examine themselves and to discerne the lords body ; and doth it not also prove the same concerning children when adult , if this disability be found in them also ? sure infants and children in minority , are not expresly mentioned in the text , no more then children when adult or grown up ; and if the logicians rule be good which saith à quatenus ad omne valet conj●quenti● , then if infants and children in minority must not be admitted to full communion , because of their want of the ability spoken of ; it will follow , if the like inability be found in the adult , that these also must not be admitted , and that for the like reason . and ●f that text cor. . be sufficient to prove the one , it is sufficient for proof of the other also ; and so this argument of the synod stands good . the exception he added , is , that yet it may not be granted , that when they are grown up to years , they are , and continue members regularly , being through want of that ability not fit for church-communion , ( i. e. for full communion . ) ans. if it may not be granted that they continue members , why should not something be produced to prove the contrary ? why should such a thing be barely affirmed , and not proved ? it is sure they were once members , and , as such , were baptized ; and it is clear , that though now they be adult , or grown up , yet they were never , in any way of god , cut off , or cast out from their membership : and therefore we think it more rational to say , that they st●ll c●ntinue to be members , then to say that they do not ; and this without alledging any proof at all . as for that which here followeth , that if persons being unbaptized should desire to have the covenant and their church-membership sealed by baptism , they must hold f●rth faith in christ wrought in their hearts , before they may be baptized , as philip required the eunuch , acts . so , by parity of reason , f●om baptized in infancy , being grown up to years , desires to be joyned to the church , he must hold forth his personall faith in the son 〈◊〉 god , &c the answer is , that there is not , as is said , parity of reason between the cases alledged , but great disparity : for , in the one case the persons spoken of are unbaptized ; in the other , baptized already : in the one case , the persons desire to have the covenant and their church-membership sealed by baptism ; and in the other case there is no such d●si●e , the persons having had the covenant , and their membership sealed by bapt●sm already , even in their infancy or minority long since : in the one case , the persons seem as yet to be non-members , though they do 〈◊〉 that priviledge ; but in the other case , the persons were church-members long ago . for , as for that term that is used concerning these 〈◊〉 d●●ring to be joyned to the church by their own personall 〈…〉 c●●ve this word of [ joyning ] to the church if it be meant of their first joyning thereto , is very improper , because the●● persons are not now to be so joyned , but were joyned to the church long since : nor is the church now to admit them to church-membership , for they were admitted thereto long since . the second argument of the synod for proof of this fourth proposition , is from the old testament , where though men did continue members of the church , yet for ceremoniall uncleanness they were to be kept from full communion in the holy things ; yea , and the priests and porters had speciall charge that men should not partake in all the holy things , unless duely qualified for the same , notwi●hstanding their membership , &c. to this the reverend author answereth , . that the invalidity of proofes from the old testament , being applyed to gospel-ordinances , and so this of baptism under the new testament , in things whereof there is not the like reason , hath been declared in the fourth , sixth , and eighth positions , with which this proof doth not agree . ans. to this we answer , . that there is validity , and much weight in proofs from the old testament , for confirming and clearing things under the new : for even those scriptures were written for our learning , rom. . . and christ himself bids us search them , as those which did testifie of him , joh. . . and brings many proofs out of those scriptures for confirming and clearing things under the gospel , luk. . , , . & . , . and so do the apostles likewise , even in main & fundamental matters , act. . , . & . . and so from the maintenance of the ministry that was under the old testament , to the maintenance of the ministry now , cor. . . from their sacraments to ours ; and from the danger of unworthy receiving those , to the danger of unworthy receiving ours , cor. . , . &c. by which , and much more that might be added , it is plain , that the scriptures of the old testament have much validity in them , for confirming and clearing truths in new testament-times . . the reverend author doth acknowledge , as was noted before , that the covenant of abraham is the same for substance , now under the gospel , as it was under the law ; and that the kingdome of god is the same to the iews formerly , and to the gentiles now ; and that baptisme of infants , under the new testament , may be rightly proved from the circumcision of inf●nts under the old. which passages do sufficiently witness , that in his judgement there is validity in proofs from the old testament , for things under the new. . it is a great weakness and mistake in sundry of the antipoedobaptists , that they would limit the proofs for infant-baptism , and for the covenant-interest of children , unto the scriptures of the new testament , as if the covenant of abraham , and the circumcision of infants in the old testament , were of no validity for the purpose mentioned . and it is not comfortable that the reverend author should so often harp upon this string , and so often mention this matter of the invalidity of old testament-scriptures for proof of matters in gospel times ; as if he did concur with them , in their tenet against ●oedobaptism , which he frequently professeth against , albeit in this , his language seems but too like theirs , which we could wish were otherwise . . for that expression of [ things whereof there is not the like reason ] being a limitation , or explanation of the invalidity spoken of , let this be applyed to the case in question , and we conceive it will not weaken the argument in hand , nor shew any invalidity therein , but rather the contrary ; for if ceremonial uncleanness did hinder men from full communion in the ordinances in the old testament , notwithstanding their membership ; is there not the like reason , or rather much more , that membership alone should not suffice for full communion in these dayes , if moral fitness and spiritual qualifications be wanting ? it seems in this case there is the like reason , or rather much more : and therefore the synods argument in the present case , and their proof from the old testament , cannot be laid aside , or refused , for any invalidity therein , through want of the like reason . the reverend author saith , if the texts alledged by the synod were applicable to church-members in gospel-times , yet they suit not the case in question . and why not ? the reason rendred , is , " because all men that were members of the iewish church , had full communion in all legal ordinances , even they that were ceremonially unclean had so before their uncleanness , and after they were healed of their uncleanness , as well as others . so then the unsuitableness is , that ceremoniall uncleannes , did debar men from full communion , though they had been partakers of it afore , and might be again after their cleansing : whereas the case in question is of such as yet never bad such full communion . but what weight is there in this , to weaken the synods argument ? if ceremoniall uncleanness did then hinder men from full communion , who had formerly had it is there not as much reason that want of spirituall qualifications should now binder men from such full communion , who yet have never had it ? one would think such a matter as would suffice for the debarring of one from full communion , who had formerly enjoyed it , might suffice for hindring one from such communion who never yet was partaker thereof . and if the priests and porters in israel had charge , that men should not partake of all the holy things , unless duely qualified for the same , notwithstanding their membership in f●ll communion with the church ( for so the reverend author , ● . . understands that place in chron. . ) doth it not much more follow , that such as yet never had such full communion may justly be kept theref●om , untill duely quali●ica , notwithstanding their membership ? for ought we see , this consequence is strong and undeniable , and so the synods argument in this place from the old testamen● is not at all overthrown , but rather more strengthned . as for what the reverend author saith , pag. , . to the particular texts here alledged , viz. levit. . , . numb . . , . & . , . ezek. . , , . which he understandeth to signifie and teach , that in gospel-times men should be removed ou● of church-communion by excommunication , if they were scandalous and impenitent sinners ; and that such scandalous persons , such as were visibly uncircumcised in heart , and spiritually unclean , should not be admitted into the church : we shall not insist upon these particulars , for it is our desire that no unworthy persons may be admitted into the church , nor suffered to continue therein . onely before we leave this second argument , it may be observed , that whereas the synod had said , more was required to adult persons eating the passover , then meer membership ; therefore so there is now to the lords supper . the reverend author answereth , it is true , more then that membership which they had in infancy or minority , was required in adult persons to eat the passover : for first , when they became adult , they were to covenant solemnly with the lord and his people in their own persons , whereunto heart-fitness was necessary , that their persons and services might be accepted of god — secondly , this heart-fitness was also to be exercised when they were to eat the passover , p. , . wherein there is a consent to what the synod had said , about more then membership to be requisite to the eating of the passover . and if this ground of the synod be true and good , is not their inference from it good also , viz. that more then membership is also requisite to the receiving of the lords supper ? the third argument of the synod for confirming this fourth proposition , is taken from the different nature of baptism and the lords supper ; the former firstly and properly sealing covenant-holiness , church-membership , and planting into christ , and so members as such are the subjects of that ordinance : but the lords supper is a sacrament of growth in christ , and of speciall communion with him , and so supposeth a speciall renewing of faith and repentance in them that partake of that ordinance . the reverend author making answer to this , faith nothing at all touching the different nature of these two ordinances , on which this argument of the synod is built ; and so baptism may be for all church-members as such , and the lords supper not for all , but onely for some , for any thing that the reverend author saith to the contrary . for , as for the different nature of these two ordinances , he saith nothing thereto at all : but his answer is about the communion that is inferred from church-membership , viz. that the membership of children in minority infers church-communion , so far as they are capable — and so they are to be baptized ; but the church-membership of adult persons infers communion in all ordinances , and particularly in the lords supper . which answer , as it medleth not with the different nature of baptism , and the lords supper , from which the synod argueth ; so it is an answer which being considered in it self , is nothing but a petitio principii , or a begging of the question , affirming that which is the thing to be proved : for , the synods proposition is , that these ad●lt persons are not therefore to be admitted to full communion , meerly because they are and continue members — and they give three arguments for this . now the reverend author in answer to the third of those arguments , saith , as here we see , that the membership of adult persons , infers communion in all ordinances , the lords supper , &c. the synod saith in effect , this membership alone doth not infer full communion ; and the answer here given , is an affirming of the contrary , viz. that it doth infer it ; which answer cannot goe for a sufficient overthrow of the synods proposition , unless we shall say , that a meer affirming of the contrary , is sufficient for that purpose . but if a contrary affirmation , be a sufficient confutation , it were easy in that way to confute the things that are most strongly proved . for a conclusion of this fourth proposition , and the arguments for it , the synod doth infer , that if persons when adult may be , and continue members , and yet be debarred from the lords supper , until meet qualifications for the same be found in them , then may they also ( until like qualifications ) be debarred from that power of voting in the church , which pertaines to males in full communion : — for how can they who are not able to examine and judg themselves , be thought able and fit to discern and judge in the weighty affairs of the house of god ? now what saith the reverend author to this ? one thing he saith , is this , that church-membership in adult persons , infers communion in all ordinances , in the lords supper , and in voting , and in censures ; which is nothing but an affirmation of the contrary to the synods proposition , which they had confirmed by arguments , and of their inference therefrom : but until their arguments be taken away , their proposition , and their inference from it , stands good : and therefore this affirmation of the contrary may not be admitted . another thing the reverend author here saith , is this , that no adult person may be received into meer membership regularly , until he be qualified fitly for other ordinances , and for voting , and judging in church-affairs . where , if by receiving such into membership be meant , that they were not members before now , when they are adult , but are now first received into that estate ; then the answer is , that the adult persons spoken of are not now first received into membership , but have been in that estate long since , even from their infancy or minority , and therefore they cannot properly be said to be now received into membership : but if hereby be meant , that they cannot regularly be acknowledged to be members , until they be fitly qualified for all ordinances ; for voting , and for judging in censures , then this is but the same which we had before , even an affirmation contrary to what the synod had said . but till the synods proposition , with their arguments for●● , and their inference from i● , be removed , the reader may judge what is to be thought of a meer affirmation to the contrary . so much for defence of the synods fourth proposition . propos. . for the fifth proposition , viz. church-members who were admitted in minority , understanding the doctrine of faith , and publickly professing their assent thereto ; not scandalous in life , and solemnly owning the covenant before the church , wherein they give up themselves and their children to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in the church , their children are to be baptized . the first argument of the synod for confirming this proposition , is ; because the children here spoken of are partakers of that which is the main ground of baptizing any children whatsoever , and neither the parents nor the children do put in any barre to binder it . of which the former branch is proved ; because interest in the covenant is the main ground of title to baptism , and this these children have ; and that interest in the covenant is the ground of baptizing an● , the synod proves ; because in the old testament this was the ground of title to circumcision , gen. . , , , . to which baptism now answer , col. . , and because in acts . . they are 〈◊〉 ground exhorted to be baptized , because the promise ( 〈◊〉 covenant ) was to them and to their children . now what saith the reverend author to these proofs ? truly nothing at all that doth appear ; and therefore the argument & proofs of it , stand good for ought that is here said to the contrary . and indeed , how can it be otherwise ? sith nothing is more plain , then that the covenant was the ground of circumcision ; and that they in acts. . are therefore exhorted to be baptized : i will establish my covenant , saith god , gen. . between me and thee , and thy seed after thee — ye shall therefore keep my covenant : and this is my covenant which you shall keep , every male among you shall be circumcised : and ▪ saith peter , repent , and ●e baptized wherefore , or on what g●ou●d must they be so ? because ( saith he ) th● promise 〈…〉 to your children : whereby it is undeniably plain , that the covenant was the ground of title to circumcision , and is now of title to baptism . nor can this be denied by the reverend author , because he plainly yields in position fifth and sixth premised , that the covenant of abraham was the same in substance under the law , and 〈◊〉 the gospel ; and that baptism ●●come in the place of circumcision , and therefore infants of confederates are now to be baptized , as thou they were circumcised , they both being outward seals of the same covenant in substance , pag. , . so that in his judgement , title to circumcision then was , and to baptism now is , rightly inferred from interest in the covenant : which [ the very thing here : affirmed by the synod . what then doth the reverend author here say ? why , that which he saith , is this , that men must be duely qualified before they may be admired to covenant with the lord and his church for themselves and their children — and , that the primitive churches looked for this qualification in the 〈…〉 admitted into church-membership — which doth not at all enervate what the synod here saith . for , suppose men must be duely qualified before they be admitted to covenant and membership , doth this prove , that interest in the covenant is not the ground of title to the seal ? it seems not to prove it at all ; and the reason is , because this speaks not to the thing in question , but to another point . for , whether interest in the covenant do prove right to the seal , is one thing ; and how men should be qualified afore they be admitted to covenant , is another ; and the former being that which is here affirmed by the synod , it cannot be overthrown by what the reverend author affirmeth concerning the latter , except we shall say , that a thing may be sufficiently confuted by speaking to another point , when one doth not speak ad idem . whether the parents of the children here spoken of , be duely qualified for covenant , and unto membership , is not the thing here in question , nor spoken of by the synod ; but here is the thing they affirm , that interest in the covenant gives title to baptism — besides , suppose the qualifications here mentioned by the reverend author , of being " s●ints , sanctified , and faithfull in christ iesus , and the rest , suppose these be requisite in men that are to be admitted to covenant and membership , yet this concerns not the parents of the children here spoken of , because they are not now to be admitted into the covenant and church membership , but are therein already , and have been long afore now , even from their minority o● birth ; and therefore this also is another reason , why that which is here spoken by the reverend author is beside the question . further , whereas the synod here addeth , that a member , or one in covenant as such , is the subject of baptism , was further cleared in propos. . the reverend author answereth , that the light which that proposition holdeth forth for clearing this , is in one clause , which is here omitted , viz. [ according to scripture ] they that according to scripture are members of the visible church , are the subjects of baptism . ans. then let that clause be here added , which was there expressed by the synod in that first proposition : if then the reverend author do consent thereto , as it may seem by his manner of alledging it , that he doth ; then what the synod here affirmeth , is gained , viz. that interest in the covenant is the ground of title to baptism : and indeed the synod gave five arguments for clearing of that first proposition , which the reverend author doth not there meddle withall , much less remove ; and therefore they still stand in force . only it may be observed , that whereas here he seems to consent to the proposition , if that term [ according to scripture ] be added , yet when he spake to that first proposition , he consented not thereto , unless this term [ according to scripture ] might be changed into this [ according to christs ordinance ] otherwise he could not then concur with that proposition , and this term in it , though now it seems he doth : but whether it be expressed the one way or the other , with the term of [ members [ according to scripture ] or [ according to christs ordinance , ] if it be granted that such members are the subjects of baptisme , then the doctrine of the synod in this point is granted . as for what is here said to that proposition , if this term [ according to scripture ] be not omitted , but taken in , viz. that according to scripture , the covenant was differently administred in diff●rent times of the church ; which different manner of administration is here , pag. . and in the tenth position , which is here cited , said to be this in sum , that the church was once in families , or domestical ; under moses , national ; and under christ , congregational . ans. vvhat if all this were granted ? is there any thing in this ( for we would willingly keep to the question ) to overthrow the synods f●●st proposition , or their saying that is here under debate , viz. that interest in the covenant is the main ground of title to baptism ? it seems nothing at all . for , if according to scripture there have been different administrations of the covenant in different times , and that the church was heretofore domestical , afterward national , and now congregational ; all this may be granted , and yet it may be a truth that is here said , that interest in the covenant is the main ground of title to baptism . that these children are in covenant , the synod saith , appears ; . because if the parent be in covenant , the child is so also : but the parents in question are in covenant . to this the reverend author answereth , that if this being in covenant , be understood of being in it according to g●spel-rules , and that the childrens being in covenant , be understood of infant children , or children in minority , then the proposition is true , or else it must be denied . ans. concerning the one of these particulars , viz. of being in covenant according to gospel-rules , it may be granted that it is so to be understood , and that it is not to be imagined , that the synod meant it any otherwise . but for the other particular , that the children in covenant are only infants or children in minority , this is a limitation that needs further consideration , and will be spoken to afterward . whereas the synod , to prove the parents in question to be in covenant , alledgeth , that they were once in covenant , and never since discovenanted ; the former , because else they had not warrantably been baptized ; and the latter , because they have not in any way of god been discovenanted , cast out , or cut off from their covenant-relation . the reverend author in his answer hereunto , saith , that they are discovenanted , by not performing that whereunto they were engaged by the covenant , — for which he alledgeth rom. . . ans. . it seems then the covenant doth not only reach unto children during their minority , but also when they are become adult ; for else how could they when adult , be faulty in not performing that whereunto the covenant engageth ? can men be faulty for not performing covenant-engagements , when they are not comprehended in the covenant ? this seems not possible : therefore here seems to be a conc●ssion that the covenant reacheth further then to infancy or minority , and that they who were in covenant in their infancy by meanes of their parents covenanting for them , are also in that covenant when they are become adult . . nor is it clear , that m●ns not performing what the covenant requireth of them , doth forthwith discovenant them , if by being discovenanted , be meant their not being in that church-relation in which they were before , for god is wont to be patient , and long-suffering toward them that are in covenant with him , and to bear with them long afore be give them a bill of divorce , as it is said in nehem. . . many years didst thou forbear them ; and therefore it may seem more rigour then the word alloweth , to think or say , that such as were in covenant with god in their infancy or minority , are forthwith fallen out of that estate , if they do not , as soon as ever they become adult , perform what that covenant requireth . the long-suffering of god will not allow us so to judge , unless we had more clear warrant for such judgement : nor doth the text alledged , viz. rom. . prove any such thing ; but when it is there said , thy circumcision is made uncircumcision , the meaning is it shall not profit thee at all in such a state , as to eternal benefit : and so baptism may be said in such case to be no baptism ; and covenant , and church-relation , to be no covenant , no church-relation , i. e. not to yield any such profit in that estate : but yet if such should afterward be brought to repentance and new-obedience , would any say , that now such persons must be circumcised again , or baptized again , as if the former , in respect of the external act , were become null ? we suppose this could not be said justly , though in respect of any profit to their souls , their circumcision and baptism in their former estate was as none : and so we may say their covenant and church relation is as none , in respect of any spiritual saving benefit to their souls , if they perform not what the covenant bindes them unto ; and yet it can no more be said , that in respect of their church-relation , and external visible state , they are not in the church , or not in the covenant , then in the other particulars it can be said , that they are not circumcised , or not baptized . it is one thing to be in the covenant , and in the church , in respect of external state , and another thing to enjoy all the spiritual and eternal benefits of such a relation ; and though this latter be the portion of none but such as come to be truly regenerate , yet the other is , and so continues , the right of all that have once had it , untill in some way of god they be cut off from it , and so deprived thereof . the synod having said , that persons once in covenant are not broken off from it , according to scripture , sare for notorious sins , and incorrigibleness therein , which is not the case of these parents . the reverend author answereth , that if they break off themselves , by breaking the covenant which was sealed by baptism in their infancy or minority , they thereby deprive themselves of the benefits and priviledges of the covenant , and in such case are to be looked at like those in joh. . . ans. if by breaking off themselves , were meant no more , but that they do this meritoriously , i. e. that by their sin they deserve to be broken off , then it may be granted , that in this sense persons may ( though not that these do ) break off themselves from their covenant-relation ; and so also may persons that have been in full communion , even these by their sins may thus break off themselves , in which sense it is said , hos. . . o israel , thou hast destroyed thy self , i. e. that their sins were the procuring or meritorious cause of their destruction . but if hereby be meant , that the persons spoken of do break off themselves from their church-relation not onely meritoriously , but actually and really , then it may be justly questioned , whether church-members can thus break off themselves . sure israel did not thus destroy themselves , because all judgement and punishment is from the lord , whose work it is to kill , and make alive , to wound , and to heal , to create peace and evil ; so that there is no evil in the city , but the lord doth it , even the lord doth all these things , deut. . . isa. . . amos . . and therefore , if breaking off from church-estate , be an evil of punishment , men cannot in this sense break off themselves without god. besides , men cannot of themselves alone bring in themselves into the church , but there is requisite the consent of the church thereto ; and therefore if they cannot , of themselves alone , bring in themselves into the church , how is it credible that of themselves alone they should break themselves off from the church ? one would think , that such as cannot of themselves alone open the door for their entrance into the church , should no more be able to open it for their going out . and further , it seems not rational , that delinquents in the church should have it in their power , whether they will be censured with church-censure , or no ; and yet it must be so , if men that have been church-members may un-member themselves at their pleasure : for sure it is , church censures cannot be dispensed to any , but to such as are within the church , cor. . . if therefore a church-member , suppose one that hath been in full communion , shall commit the most enormous and scandalous wickedness that can be named ; yet if men may break off themselves from church-relation at their pleasure , such an one may have it in his choice whether he will be censured , or no : for , if he can but say , i am no member of your church , nor will be , but do fors●ke the church-relation in which i was , it shall then be in the power of such a notorious delinquent to bind the churches hands from censuring him , and so make the rule of christ to be of none effect , which saith , d●liver such a man to satan , cor. . which makes it very improbable , that men can of themselves break off themselves from the covenant and church-relation . as for them in ioh. . . of whom it is said , they went out from us , but they were not of us , &c. why may not this going o●t be understood of a local departure , or of a departing from the company , and communion of the saints , and such duties and acts of love as that church-relation requireth , rather then of a going out from the relation it self ? it is plain , men may of themselves ( if they have no more grace ) neglect the duties which their nearest relations require , and depart from them in respect of place and duties ; as david and iob were thus forsaken by their kindred , b●ethren , and mothers children , &c. psal. . . & . . iob . , . but doth this prove , that those brethren and mothers children , who thus neglected the duties which their relation required , were now no longer in the relation at all ? were these brethren and mothers children , now become mothers children no longer , nor brethren any longer , because now they were gone from the duties which they should have performed ? this doth not follow at all : how then doth it follow , that those who wen● out from the saints in respect of place and performance of duties , were thereby gone out from their church-relation ? they might by this departure of theirs deserve to be cut off by church-censure from their church-estate ; but that by this their departing they did cut off , or break off themselves from their church-estate , any otherwise then meritoriously , doth not appear . the synod having said , that the parents in question are in covenant , because the tenor of the covenant is to the faithful and their seed after them in their generations , gen. . . the reverend author in his answer hereto , pag. . saith , that the sea●ing of this covenant to the posterity of isaac and jacob by circumcision , was to continue throughout their generations , till the coming of christ ; and that the covenant is for the substance the same to us as it was to them , it being ●stablished by the blood of christ , luk. . , . heb. . . ans. here is then a consent to the synods argument , and the proof of it : for , if the covenant be for substance the same to us as it was to them , and was then to the faithful and their seed in their generations ; doth it not then follow , that these parents being the seed of the faithful , are hereby proved to be in the covenant ? this seems a plain granting of the synods saying , and of their proof of it . whereas the synod said , that the parents in q●estion are keepers of the covenant , because they are not fors●ker● , and rejecters of the god , and covenant of their fathers ; and alledged for this deut. . , . king. . — . chron. . . deu. . . the reverend author answereth , that keepers of the covenant , the parents in question are not ; for though they are not such forsakers , and rejecters of it , as they who are spoken of in the texts alledged ; yet besides that gross idolatry , there is a spiritual idolatry in scandalous covetousness , col. . . worldly-mindedness , whereby men forsake and reject god and his covenant to serve the world — and such may they be who answer all the terms of their fifth proposition , externally and visibly . ans. now herein is a marvellous thing , and not easie to be understood ; for the proposition saith expresly , that the persons spoken of are not scandalous in life ; and the answer is , that men may answer that , and all the other terms of the proposition externally , and visibly , and yet be guilty of scandalous cove●ousness ; and worldly-mindedness . now that men may be not scandalous in life , and yet guilty of scandalous covetousness ; guilty of scandalous covetousness and worldly-mindedness , and yet not scandalous in life ; these things seem contradictory and inconsistent , c●piat qui capere porest . it seems to us more rational to think and say , that though it be possible for men to be not scandalous in life , and yet to be guilty of worldly-mindedness , and other secret sins , and heart-wickednes● ; yet if they answer this and all the terms of the proposition , it seems not improbable but they may be truely godly , and sincere , sith they are not only not scandalous in life , but do give up themselves and their children to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in his church ; and all this not ignorantly , but with understanding ; not sl●ghtly , but solemnly and publickly before the church : for , doth not all this make their sincerity hopeful ? we conceive it may . but that they should do all this , and in such manner as is said , and yet for all this to be so far from probability of grace , as to be forsakers and rej●cters of god and his covenant , to serve the vvorld , and this not onely secretly , and in heart , but so outwardly , and visibly , as to be scandalous therein ; how this can be , we must confess we do not understand . to that of the synod , where they say , that the parents in question do not put in any barre to hinder their children from baptism : and that this is plain from the words of the proposition , where they are described to be such as understand the doctrine of fai●h , &c. the reverend author in his answer , saith that notwithstanding this , the parents may put in a barre to hinder their children from bap●●sm , because a man may do and be all that is required in that proposition , and yet have no faith in christ , but be an unregenerate person — ans. it is one thing what a man may do , and yet be an unregenerate person really and in the sight of god , who knoweth the heart ; and another thing to be visibly so in the view of men , and in their rationall judgement : for ▪ it is granted , that a man may be and do outwardly and visibly all that the proposition mentioneth , yea and all that can be named further , and yet be really , and in the sight of god , an unregenerate person ; but yet this needs not to hinder his childe from baptism before the church : for such was the case of iudas , ananias and sapphira , simon magus , and others , who had a name to live , and yet were dead , rev. . . and yet for all this deadness and unregeneracy of theirs , the church did warrantably admit them and theirs to baptism , because visibly , and for ought that the church could discern , they were regenerate , sith de occultis non judicat ecclesia . but that a man may do , and be all that the proposition mentioneth , and yet be unregenerate , and without faith , not onely in the sight of god , but also visibly , and to the churches judgement ; this seems not very probable . even one of the particulars which the proposition mentioneth , viz. that of [ giving up themselves to the lord ] is spoken of by the apostle , as a token of the grace of god bestowed on the churches of macedonia , cor. . , . and when the synod mentioneth not onely this particular ▪ but five or six others in the proposition , must we for all this say , that men may do this , and all that is mentioned in that proposition , and yet have no grace of god bestowed on them , but be , even quoad nos , without all faith in christ , and in an unregenerate estate , and so put in a barre to hinder the baptism of their children ? we cannot but fear such judgement is more rigorous then charity will allow ; for the scripture tells us , that the tree is known by its fruit , mat. . & . and , that even a childe is known by his doings , whether his work be pure , and whether it be right , prov. . . and therefore when there are so many things for the parents in question , as are mentioned in the proposition , and nothing appearing to the contrary , we think such parents , having been members of the church in their minority , may justly be looked at as those who do not put in any barre to hinder their children from baptism . the reverend author further saith , pag. . though these parents are not scandalous in life , but solemnly own the covenant before the church , wherein they give up themselves and their children to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in the church , yet all these may be affirmed of many who have a form of godliness , and deny the power thereof : from such paul warned timothy to turn away , tim. . . ans. but is it credible , that those in tim. . could answer all that is said in this proposition ? were they not scandalous in life , but did give up themselves to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in his church ? what then means the many scandalous sins mentioned ver . , , . and what was this denying the power of godliness that is charged upon them ? it is most like it was such a denying as that in tit. . . where they are said to profess to know god , but by works to deny him , being abominable , disobedient , and to every good work reprobate ; and if so , then they were far from answering what is said of these parents : for , these parents are not scandalous in life ; but those the apostle speaks of are scandalous , and abominable for wickedness : these parents are commendable for sundry good things in them , and good duties done by them ; whereas those the apostle speaks of are not so , but disobedient , and to every good work reprobate . and when the apostle bids timothy , turn away from such ; doth not this simply that they were scandalous persons , and apparently wicked ? it is not likely that the apostle would else have commanded to turn from them , sith he himself did so lovingly converse with so many sorts of men , that he might gain them to the lord , cor. . , , &c. and gives commandment to receive the weak , rom. . . and to instruct with meekness such as oppose themselves , if god peradventure may give them repentance , &c. tim. . . which things do strongly argue , that those whom he commands in tim. . to turn away from , were not such as are described in the proposition , but far worse , being apparently and grosly wicked . for otherwise , how could the apostle in commanding to turn away from them , be cleared from direct contradicting both his own doctrine and his own practice ? but let those in tim. . whom he commands to turn away from , be understood of persons grosly vicious and scandalous , and then the appearance of contradiction is easily cleared , and so the parents in question cleared from being such persons , as must be turned away from . so much for defence of the first argument . but before the reverend author proceed to the next , he is something large in suggesting , that the elders do admit persons into membership , who are not qualified according to what is said in this proposition , so that if their doctrine in this matter were right , yet it is here pag. , . frequently intimated that their practice is otherwise . for , saith he , they cannot prove that all adult persons whom they admit into personal and immediate membership , are such as the proposition describeth : for , i demand , do they all understand the doctrine of faith ? what course do they take to know it ? are all the adult persons , whom they admit into membership , such as the proposition describes ? do they take a right course to know they are such ? that they are not scandalous in life , &c. ans. the proposition speaks of such as were admitted in minority , and therefore what is done towards these when they are adult , is not fitly called admitting into membership . for , as mr. cotton saith , it is one thing to enter into the church , ( for that agreeth to such as were sometime without ) another thing to speak of the infants of believers , who were never out of the church , and so cannot be said to enter into it . grounds and ends , &c. pag. , . and therefore it is a mistake to say or think of such elders , as concurred with the synod , that what is done by them towards the children of church-members , being now adult , is an admitting of them into membership , for this those children had afore they were adult , and therefore they are not now admitted into it . but to leave this : why should the reverend author suggest such a thing into the mindes of his readers , that the elders in their practice do differ from their doctrine , and teach one thing in the synod , and in their practice do contrary ? were it not more suitable to love ( which thinketh not evil , cor. . nor receiveth a reproach against ones neighbour , psal. . ) to endeavour to bring such elders , as are thus faulty ( if indeed there be any ) to repentance for their sailing therein , rather then to give occasion of mis-apprehensions against them , by writing thus of them ? it may well be called misapprehension ; for there are few of the elders , in comparison , that have yet put the children of church-members to a publick owning of the covenant , afore the time of their admission to full communion : and for those few that have done it , as this was not an admitting of them into membership , for that they had before ; so it would be hard to prove , that when this was done , that their infants might be baptized , which is the case the synod speaks of ; it would be hard ( we say ) to prove that the parents , who so did , were not qualified according as the fifth proposition describeth . and therefore to give occasion of other thoughts , not only against some few of the elders , but even of all , for what is here intimated , is not of some onely , but of all alike without difference ; what may be thought of this , we leave to the further consideration of the reverend author . to the second argument of the synod , that the children of the parents in question , are either children of the covenant , or strangers from the covenant ; either holy , or unclean ; either within the church , or without ; either such as have god for their god , or are without god in the world : but he that considers the proposition , will not affirm the latter concerning these children ; and the former being granted , infers their right to baptism . to this the reverend author answereth , that the more he considers the proposition , the less he findes in it to evince the former , and the more to conclude the latter . ans. now the latter is , that the children of the parents in question , are strangers from the covenant , not holy , but unclean , and without the church , and such as are without god in the world : and if the reverend author finde so much to conclude thus of the children of church-members , which members understand the doctrine of faith , and publickly assent thereto ; are not scandalous in life , but thus and further qualified , as in the proposition is expressed : if he finde much to conclude thus of these children , if he be had expressed any part thereof , it might have been taken into consideration ; but nothing being expressed , how can it ? a meer contrary affirmation , how can it go for a sufficient confutation ? as for that which he addeth , that if a man have no more then the proposition holds forth , he may be a stranger from the covenant , unclean , and without the church , &c. is not this spoken of grown persons , and therefore how is the synods argument hereby touched , which speaketh of little children ? nor is it easily proved , that a grown person , who was admitted in minority , and is now qualified as the proposition expresseth , that such a grown person is now a stranger from the covenant , and without the church , and without god in t●● world , and this is respect of his external state , or being in the church-visible ; we see not that this is proved at all . for , as for rom. . , , . which is here alledged , they are not all israel , which are of israel , &c. the text may prove , that they are not all elected of god , or sincere believers , who in regard of external relation are members of the visible church ; and this will be easily granted : but for membership in the church-visible , of which is our question , that text hath nothing in it at all to prove , that men who were members of this church in their minority , being now qualified as the synod expresseth , that these are now without such membership and externall state ; this is not proved at all by this text. for , if we shall so say , we shall make the apostle to contradict himself ; for , of these very persons and people , of whom ●e saith , they are not all israel , not all children , not all the children of god , &c. of these very persons and people he said , ver . . that they are israelites , to whom pertaineth the adoption , and the glory , and the covenants , and the giving of the law , and the service of god , and the promises ; that is , they were gods adopted children in regard of external covenant , and were members of the church-visible , and yet these were not all israel , that is , they were not all gods israel by election and spiritual regeneration . thus the apostles words are easily reconciled . but how shall they be reconciled , if the latter , as well as the former , be meant of the church-visible ? can they be israelites , and not israel , in the same respect ? can they in respect of external state be partakers of adoption , gods covenant and promises , &c. and so be church-members , and yet in regard of the same estate , be no church-members at all , nor in the church-covenant at all ? it is not easie to conceive how this can be ; and therefore the words in rom. . , , . are not fitly applied to prove that men , who were church-members in their minority , may be qualified as the fifth proposition expresseth , and yet now be strangers from the covenant , and without the church , in respect of their visible and externall state . whereas the synod for a third argument , saith , that to deny this proposition , would be . to stratten the grace of christ in the gospel-dispensation , and to make the church in new-testament-times , in worse case , relating to their children successively , then were the iews of old . . to render the iews , when they shall be called , in a worse condition then under the legal administration : contrary to jer. . . ezek . , . . to deny the application of the initiatory seal to such as regularly stand in the church and covenant , to whom the mosaical dispensation , nay the first institution appointed it to be applied , gen. . , . joh. . , . . to break the covenant , by denying the initiatory seal to those that are in covenant , gen. . , , . to this the reverend author answereth , that the contrary to all and every one of these is true : for , . it enlargeth the grace of christ in the gospel-dispensation , by shewing that christian churches are in a more spiritual and gracious frame then the iews of old were , under legal dispensation , &c. ans. suppose that christian churches be in a more spiritual and gracious frame then were the jews under the legal dispensation , yet if then such parents as the proposition describes , might have the initiatory seal applied to their infants , and now may not ; how can it be denied but that now the christian churches are in a worse case , relating to their children successively , then the church of the jews was ? for then such parents might have their children circumcised , but now they may not have them baptized , if this proposition be denied . and though the grace of christ may be now enlarged in other respects , yet in respect of children it is not enlarged , but str●●t●ed , by denying this proposition : except we shall say , that for parents to have the seal of the covenant applied to them and their children , is no testimony of gospel-grace at all , which cannot be said truly ; and therefore the synods argument in this particular stands good . . saith the reverend author , it declareth that the state of the iews , when they shall be called , will be far better then it was under legal dispensations — for under the law their light and holiness was defective — but when they shall be called , they shall have a farre greater measure of light and holiness then was to be found in former ages — ans. suppose this be granted , the question is not about their holiness and 〈◊〉 , but about their children , of whom it is evident , that if the parents were qualified as this proposition expresseth , those children might then be circumcised : and the texts alledged , viz. 〈◊〉 . . ezek. , . do shew , that when they shall be called , their children shall be in as good estate as formerly : but how can this be , if the parents may be qualified as is expressed , and yet may not have their children baptized ? is not this a rendring of them , in respect of their children , in a worse condition then formerly ? for the third particular , the reverend author answereth , that the dent●ll of the proposition doth not deny ( in sum ) what the synod saith it doth , but the contrary . ans. in what the synod here saith , there are three particulars contained or included : . that the mosaicall dispensation , and first institution of the initiatory seal , did appoint that seal to be applied to such as stood regularly in the church and covenant . . that the children in question d● regularly stand in the church and covenant . . that the deniall of the proposition , doth deny the application of the sea● to such as the mosaicall dispensation appointed it to be applied unto . of these particulars , the first cannot be denied ; for it is undeniably proved by the texts alledged , viz. gen. . , . joh . , . and the third particular is plain of it self : all the doubt therefore must be about the second , viz. whether the children in question do regularly stand in the church and covenant : but for this the synod hath given divers proofs in their first and second arguments ; which proofs we do not see taken off by what the reverend author hath said thereto . the fourth particular is answered by a plain deniall of what there the synod affirmeth , viz. that to deny the proposition , doth not break gods covenant , by denying the initiatory seal to those that are in covenant . ans. yet nothing can be more plain , then that denying circumcision to them that were in the covenant , was a breaking of gods covenant ; for it is expresly so called , gen. . . , . if therefore the children spoken of be in the covenant , how can the deniall of baptism to them be any other then is said ? and that they are in the covenant , the synod gave sundry proofs in their first and second arguments . so much for defence of the third argument . the fourth argument of the synod for confirming this fifth proposition , is this : c●nfederate visible believers , though but in the lowest degree such , are to have their children baptized : but the parents in question are such , at least in some degree . for , . charity may observe in them sundry positive arguments for it , witness the terms of the proposition , and nothing evident against it . to this the reverend author answereth , by denying the minor in the argument , and affirming the contrary to the first reason here mentioned ; viz. that all that is said in the proposition , is no sufficient ground for charity to account these parents to be believers in the least degree . ans. but if there be sundry positive arguments for charity thus to judge of them , and nothing evident to the contrary , as the synod argueth ; why then should we judge otherwise of them ? when such church-members , as were admitted in their minority , do understand the doctrine of faith , and publickly assent thereto , are not scandalous in life , but do solemnly own the covenant , wherein they give up themselves to the lord , &c. is all this nothing for charity to go upon in accounting them believers ? no , not in the least degree ? we conceive charity wants sufficient ground to judge otherwise . see more in defence of the first argument . but , saith the reverend author , let them show how faith was w●ough● , and how it work● in them , and then the church will have ground for their charitable judgement concerning their fitness , &c. ans. what proof is there , that except this be done , there can be no ground for the charitable judgement that is mentioned ? sure it is , there is no mention that such a thing was performed by the eunuch , nor required of him by philip , acts . and yet he was baptized upon profession of his faith in christ , though there is no mention , that to shew how his faith was wrought in him , was either done by him , or required of him : and therefore we see no reason to the contrary , but that when that is done which is mentioned in the proposition , there may be ground for charity to account them believers , though they come not up to what the reverend author requireth , of declaring how their faith was wrought in them . . the synod saith , the children of the godly , though qualified but as the persons in the proposition , are said to be faithfull , tit. . . the reverend author answereth , nor are the children of the godly , qualified but as in the proposition , said to be faithfull in tit. . so his answer is an express deniall of what the synod here saith . but to say the children in tit. . are not called faithfull , is directly to gainsay the text , which doth exp●esly so call them : and that these children that are called faithful in tit. . were qualified above what the proposition requireth , is not proved at all . for the text that calls them faithful , saith no more of them , but that they are not accused of riot , or unruly . and if this be sufficient for accounting them faithful ▪ those whom the proposition describeth may much more be so accounted ; because they are not only free from vnruliness and riot , but partakers of sundry other good qualifications , which do amount further . . whereas the synod saith , children of the covenant , as the parents in question are , have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in younger years , at scripture and experience shew . instance joseph , samuel , &c. hence this sort of persons shewing nothing to the contrary , are in charity , or to ecclesiastical reputation , visible believers . the reverend author answereth , that the parents in question were indeed children of the covenant in their infancy or minority , but if when they are adult , they do not covenant for themselves and their seed , being fitly qualified , they cannot then be fi●ly called children of the covenant , but transgressors of the covenant , and breakers of it . ans. . if they be breakers of it , then sure they are comprehended in it : for , how can men break the covenant , wh●ch they are not in ? therefore , as it is here expresly confessed , that they were children of the covenant in their minori●y , so the same is by consequence confessed of them being adult ; for otherwise , how could they be then said to break the covenant ? . if the parents in question were children of the covenant in their infancy and minority , as the reverend author acknowledgeth they were , this suits well enough with the purpose and scope of the synod in this place , which is expresly said to be this , that such children have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years ; and such as had grace begun in them in their younger years , why should not charity think it is there still , when nothing appears to the contrary ? for he that once begins that good work of grace , is not wont to forsake that work of his own hands , but to perfect it untill the day of christ , psal. . . phil. . . further , saith the reverend author , this argument is fall●cious , because it argues from some particulars , to infer a general affirmatively . some children of the covenant have had the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years , therefore all persons of this sort , &c. if the reverend author had expressed the synods argument as they expressed it , it would not then have appeared so fallacious , as the alteration of their words may make it . for , whereas they said , children of the covenant have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years , for which they produced eight or nine instances from scripture : all these instances , and that frequency , for proof of which they were alledged ; are now all left out , and in stead thereof it is rendred some children of the covenant , &c. and whereas the inference which the synod makes is thus expressed , viz. hence this sort of persons &c. now the term all , which was not in before , is expresly put in thus , all persons of this sort , &c. which alteration may indeed obscure the strength of the argument . but let it be reduced to what it first was , and then let the judicious reader consider whether it be fall●cious , or firme , whether there be weakness or weight in it . thus it was ; if children of the covenant have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years , then this sort of persons shewing nothing to the contrary , are in charity , or to ecclesiastical reputation , visible believers : but so it is . ergo. the assumption here is manifestly proved by those many instances in scripture alledged and by experience ; and the consequence we hope is not fall●cious , but found and good : for if it be frequently thus , why should not charity believe it is thus in this sort of persons , where nothing appears to the contrary . . the synod having said , that they that are regularly in the church , ( as the parents in question be ) are visible saints in the account of scripture : for the church is in scripture ▪ account 〈◊〉 company of saints , cor. . . & . . the reverend author answereth , that both the assertion and the proof of it are to be denyed . the assertion is not true , that the parents in question are regularly in the church : infants , and children in minority of confederate believers , are in the church by their parents covenanting for them , cor. . . but parents are not so , till &c. ans. it is here again confessed , that infants and children in minority , are regularly in the church , but not so when they are adult and come to be parents : but of their continuing in the church , notwithstanding their coming to be adult , something hath been said before , and more may in the sixth argument , partic. . but whereas it is said , " the proof is to be denied , and is not apposite : we conceive , it cannot be denied to be very apposite for the purpose for which the synod doth alledge it , which is to p●ove , that they that are regularly in the church , are in scripture account visible saints ; and the words of the texts alledged , are so plain and apposi●e for this purpose , as we conceive nothing can be more . whether the parents in question be such , or no ; regularly in the church , and so saints , or not , is another thing , for which we conceive much hath and may be said : but the texts alledged were not produced by the synod for that purpose , and therefore though they be not plain for proof of that ▪ yet if they be plain and apt enough for the purpose for which they were produced by the synod , that may s●ffice , though they prove not this other , to which the reverend author doth apply them . . saith the synod , being in covenant and baptized , they have faith and repentance indefinitely given to them in the promise , and sealed up in baptism , deut. . . which continues valid , and so a valid testimony for them , while they do not rej●ct it . to this the reverend author in his answer makes mention of a distinction between the grace of the covenant , and the covenant of grace , in regard of externall means ; between the elect , in whom god works the grace promised in the covenant so powerfully , that they shall not reject it , and the rest who have the outward means of grace till they reject them , as did esau — and concludes , that such as reject the offers of grace , and living under the means of grace , do remain unbelievers , cannot be said to have faith and repentance undefinitely given to them in the promise . ans. but is there any proof of the contrary to what the synod affirmeth ? it seems none at all . for , when the synod saith , the covenant which promiseth faith and repentance is a valid testimony for them , while they do not reject it ; and the reverend author saith , that such as do reject the offers of grace , have not faith and repentance given to them in the promise : these are not contrary , nor at all inconsistent . for the synod never said nor meant , that the grace of faith and repentance are given by the covenant to them that are breakers of the covenant , and reject the offers of grace , and living under the means of grace , do still remain unbelievers : the synod never said , that the grace of faith and repentance are given to these by the promise ; but by that word , 〈◊〉 they do not reject it , do plainly imply the contrary . and therefore what the synod here saith , may be sound and good , for all that the reverend author alledgeth . if their doctrine here be not right , then it must be said , that the covenant , in which god promiseth to circumcise the hearts of his people , and of their seed , deut. . . is no promise that god will give them faith and repentance , nor any valid testimony for them that he will do it , though they for their parts do not reject it . and we suppose none will say this . what may be said of them , who when adult , are breakers of the covenant , and do reject the offers of grace , is one thing ; and what may be hoped and said of them who do not so reject , is another . the synod speaks of these latter , and the reverend author of the former ; and therefore the one cannot overthrow the other . the synod concludes this fourth argument , by adding as followeth ; viz. yet it doth not necessarily follow , that these persons are immediately fit for the lords supper ; the reason rendred , is , because though in a latitude of expression they are to be accounted believers , or in numero fidelium , as even infants in covenant are ; yet they may want that ability to examine themselves , and that speciall exercise of faith , which is requisite to that ordinance , as was said upon propos. . to this the reverend author saith , . if any man speak , let him speak as the oracles of god , pet. . . the new-testament no where alloweth that latitude of expression , to call men believers , who , &c. ans. though it be the duty of all , if they speak , to speak as the oracles of god , yet it doth not follow from thence , that none may have the term believers applied to them , except the term be found so applied in the new testament : for then the name trinity , sacrament , and many other , would be unlawful , as not being found in the new testament , no nor in the old ; yet we suppose the reverend author would not count the use of these terms unlawful . how often doth himself use the terms of par ratio , personall membership , mediate , and immediate members , and others , and yet they are terms not found in all the scripture : and therefore if the term believers be not found applied in the new testament to the persons spoken of , yet if the thing it self be found , and the matter be so delivered as becomes the oracles of god , that is , with such reverence , purity , &c. as is meet , we suppose that rule of speaking as the oracles of god , is not violated , though the term it self were not so used in the new testament , nor yet in the old. and for the thing it self , the synod hath given four or five arguments to prove , that the persons spoken of are visible believers ; which arguments we do not see satisfied by what the reverend author saith thereto . . the synod having said , that the persons spoken of may be counted in numero fidelium , as even infants in covenant are . the reverend author answereth , they cannot be so accounted , because infants are looked at onely in the parents covenant , being not capable of covenanting for themselves , as men are : so that there is not par ratio between them . ans. though infants be not capable of covenanting for themselves , as men are , yet their covenanting , or being in covenant , is not the thing here intended by the synod , but their being be●●evers , or in numero fi●●lium ; of which the reverend author saith nothing . but the thing the synod here intimateth , is this , that as even infa●ts in covenan● are counted believers , or in numero fi●elium , so may the parents spoken of . . whereas the synod saith , they may want that ability to examine themselves , and that speciall exercise of faith which is requisite to that ordinance . the reverend author answereth , that visible want of this ability , and of this exercise of faith , doth argue a visible want of that faith which is to be examined and exercised , and is a just barre to the admi●tance of such into immediate and personall church-membership , as well as to the lords supper . ans. admittance into membership is not here spoken of at all by the synod : for the persons spoken of , are counted by the synod to have been in the state of membership long afore now , even in their infancy or minority ; and therefore if the want of the ability mentioned , were a just barre to such admittance , yet this concerns not the persons spoken of . but is this which is here affirmed certain and clear , that want of the ability and exercise spoken of , doth argue want of the very being of faith ? may there not be the being and truth of that grace , even there where the exercise of it is much wanting ? plain it is , that our saviour blames his disciples , and peter , for the want of the exercise of faith , mat. . & . mark . luke . . and yet it were hard to say , that the being of faith was now wanting in them : for then we must say , either that faith once had , may afterwards be lost and gone , or else that these disciples before this time never had faith ; neither of which , we conceive , can be said truely . how plain is it , that some for their weakness and small ability in grace , and the exercise of it , are compared to a bruised r●ed , and to smoaking flax , mat. . and yet when it is said , christ will not break● such reed● , nor quench such flax , it appeareth thereby , that notwithstanding all this weakness , there may be the ●e●ng and truth of the thing in such souls . and for ability to examine themselves , cannot this be wanting ▪ but the want of the being of faith must be inferred thence ? what shall we then say to souls in such a case as heman's , psal. . who complains , that gods w●●th lay hard upon him , and that he was shut up , and could not come forth ; that god seemed to cast off his soul , and to hide his face from him ; that gods fierce w●ath went over him ; that gods terrours had cut him off ; and that hereby he was as distracted , and this even from his youth up ▪ no● can we think that in such case he was able to examine himself ? can distracted persons do so ? it seems not : and yet this heman was not without the gra●e of fa●●● for all this . and therefore we cannot say that wan● of ability to examine one's self , or of the ●●eciall exercise of faith , doth alwayes argue the want of that faith which is to be examined and ●xerci●ed : and therefore what the synod here saith may still stand , that ●he persons spoken ●f may be believers , and yet want that abi●ity to examine themselves , and that speciall exercise of faith which is requisite to that ordinance of the lords supper . so much for d●fence of the fourth argument for confirming the fifth proposition . the fifth argument of the synod for confirming this fifth proposition ▪ is this : that the deniall of baptism to the children in question , hath a dangerous tendency in it to irreligion and apostacy ; because to deny them to have any part in the lord , is the way to cause them to cease from fearing the lord ; witness josh. . , , . but to deny them , and so their children successively , to be in the church , or members of i● , and so to have right to baptism , is to deny them to have any part in the lord ; and therefore it tends to cause a ceasing from fearing the lord , and so tends to irreligion and apostacy . now what saith the reverend author to this in his reply ? that which he saith , is . the children in question , being children of parents who are not in full communion with the church , if such be denied to have any part in the lord , it is the degenerate parents fault , and not the churches . . the children in question are not children of the church , for the parents have cut off the entail of the covenant from themselves and their seed , by not confederating for themselves and theirs regularly . ans. . here then is an acknowledgement , that the children in question , when baptism and church-membership is denied them , ●re thereby acknowledged to have no part in the lord , and so to be 〈◊〉 a way of ceasing from fearing the lord : and is not this the very ●●ing affirmed by the synod ? . whereas the reverend author saith , that these children are now in such a state , through the fault of the degenerate parents , who do not regularly enter into f●ll communion : it hath been shewed before , that these parents , though not yet in fall communion , 〈…〉 in ●ny b●rr● 〈◊〉 the 〈…〉 baptism of their children : and indeed , when the parents are such as the prop●sition describeth , viz. not 〈…〉 , but understanding and 〈◊〉 to the doctrine of faith , and solemnly owning the covenant , and therein giving up themselves and h●●r children to the lord , &c. how , for all this , these parents should be the cause that their children have n● part in the lord , but do ce●s● from f●aring him ; how this can be , we confess we do not understand . can parents , by giving up themselves and their children to the lord , be notwithstanding the cause that their children have no part in the lord , though they be parents that 〈◊〉 , and be qualif●●● for it , as in the proposition is expressed ? is their giving up themselves and ●h●●r children to the lord , a cause to cut off their children from having any part in the lord ? or is their present unfitness for f●ll 〈◊〉 , a cause of such loss and misery though they be and do what is mentioned and all that the prop●s●●ion expresseth ? we see no sufficient ground to apprehend so : but when the parents are and d● a● is mentioned , we f●ar it is not they that are the cause of their childrens loss and misery expressed , but they rather , who deny their baptism and church-membership . . saith the reverend author , that this denial hath a dangerous tendency to irreligion and apostacy , is not proved by them , nor can be . ans. but if this denial do deny them to have any part in the lord , and so make them cease from fea●ing the lord , how can it be but as is said ? can men cease from fearing the lord , and from having any par● in h●● , and yet this not tend to apostacy and irreligion ? now the reverend author confesseth , that these children have no part in the lord , though he say it is through the parents faith ; though if the parents be so qualified as is said , it will be hard to prove that this comes to pass through their fault ; and then whence is it , but from them that causlesly deny their baptism and church-membership ? and if his deni●l do cause that they have no part in the lord , doth it not also cause their irreligion and ●postacy ? that text josh. . , . saith the reverend author , speaks nothing for their advantage in this case . ans. let it be considered for what purpose the synod alledgeth that text , and then it will appear that it speaks for them . now the purpose of the synod in producing that text , is plainly this , that to deny such children to have a part in the lord , is the way to make them cease from fearing the lord : and what can be more plainly spoken , then this is spoken in that text ? but why doth this text speak nothing for the advantage of the synod ? the reason that is given for this , is , because the men there spoken of , were members in ful● communion ; and their children , when they were grown up , were joyned in covenant by a solemn covenant every third year , deut. . , . so that they had a part in the lord successively , from which if they had been excluded causlesly , it might have caused their children to cease from fearing the lord. ans. suppose all this be so , this seems not to weaken the intent of the synod in producing this text , but to strengthen it : for , if denying them that have been in full communion to have any part in the lord , may cause even such to cease from fearing the lord , how much more may this be caused in them that have not yet had this full communion ? may not one think , that such as have enjoyed communion with god in all his ordinances , will not be so easily drawn away from fearing the lord , as those that never had such full communion ? and yet the reverend author doth acknowledge this might have befallen the former , and therefore how much more may this be found in the other , of whom the synod speaketh ? which things considered , it seems plain that when it is said , that text josh. . speaks nothing for the synods advantage in this case , that this saying will not hold . the synod having said , that the owning of the children of those that successively continue in covenant to be a part of the church , is far from being destructive to the purity and prosperity of the church , and religion therein , as some conceive . the reverend author answereth , that they who so conceive , have such grounds of that perswasion , as will not easily be removed , nor are so much as shaken by any thing said by the synod . ans. if such a perswasion , that the children of those who continue in covenant , are no part of the church , be a perswasion upon grounds that cannot be removed nor shaken ; then it must follow , that the church and the covenant , which is the formalis ratio of the church , comprehends not children , but parents onely , or grown persons : and then the antipoedobaptists have won the day ; for by what right can children be baptized , if they be not in the covenant , nor any part of the church , though their parents be ? sure to us it seems a well-grounded perswasion , that if the parents be and continue in covenant , the children of such are part of the church , and ought to be so owned , , and that this is no wayes destructive to the purity and prosperity of the church , and religion therein . if the parents did not continue in the covenant , then there might be some question , whether the children be part of the church : but it is plain , that the synod speaks of the children of those that continue in the covenant ; and if any think it to be a well-grounded perswasion , that the parents may continue in the covenant , and yet the children of such parents are no part of the church , we confess we see no sufficient grounds for such a perswasion . for , the reverend author doth here confess , that it is true , that the frame of the covenant runs to us , and to our seed after us in their generations , pag. . and if this be true , is it not then true , that if the parents continue in the covenant , the seed of such parents are also part of the church ? for how can they be said to be in the covenant , which is the constituting form of the church , and yet be no part of the church , which is constituted thereby . but , saith the reverend author , this must be understood and applied suita●ly to the different constitution of churches , under different administrations of the covenant , under the old-testament , and under the gospel . ans. let this be granted , yet as long as the thing it self is not denied , which must not be denied , for he confesseth it to be true , viz. that the covenant runs to us , and to our seed after us in their generations : so long as this is not denied , the d●fference in other things between the old-testament and the new , will not weaken our cause at all . for , though for constitution of churches , the church was then national , and now congregational ; and though the administration of the covenant was then under many types and ceremonies , which are now removed : and notwithstanding any other difference that can be named , yet if there be not this difference also , that the covenant did run to them , and their seed in their generations , but not to us , and our seed in like sort ; if this difference also be not asserted , we see not how it can be avoided , but even now as well as then , if the parents continue in covenant , the children do so also , and so are part of the church : and so what the synod affirmeth is gained . for it cannot be said , that though it was so then , yet it is not so now , except we shall deny what the reverend author confesseth to be true , that the frame of the covenant ( did not onely run to them and to their seed , but also ) run● to us , and our seed in their generations . and if this be true , then what the synod gathereth from it is true also , that god hath so framed his covenant , and the constitution of his church thereby , as to design a continuation and propagation of his kingdome therein , from one generation to another . for it must needs be so , if the covenant runs to us , and to our seed after us in their generations . whereas the synod saith , that to keep in the line , and under the influence and efficacy of this covenant of god , in the true way to the churches glory . the answer of the reverend author , in sum , is this , that it is so indeed , when there is a succession of faith made visible to the churches charitable judgement ; but not so , when such a membership is set u● in christian churches , whereby infants shall be baptized by right from such parents as are not in f●ll communion : for what influence and efficacy h●th the covenant upon such parents ? whereto the answer is , that if the parents be qualified as this proposition expresseth , there is manifest influence of the covenant upon them , though yet they be not come so far as to be fit for full communion . for , when they being admitted in minority , are now , when adult , not onely free from scandal in life , but also endowed with a competency of knowledge in the doctrine of faith , and solemnly assent thereto , and own the covenant , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord ; we conceive all this doth import some influence and efficacy of the covenant upon them : but if for all this , they shall be disowned from having any part in the church and covenant of god , how then can that be denied which the synod here saith , that by this cutting off , and disavowing the covenant , sion is hindred from being an eternall excellency , and the joy of many generations ? for , whatever joy it may be to the first generation , yet if all that follow , though qualified as the proposition expresseth , be nevertheless denied to have any part in the covenant and church of god , till fit for full communion , we do not see how such following generations can be any great excellency or joy at all . the synod having said , that this progress of the covenant establisheth the church , deut. . . jer. . . and that therefore the contrary doth disestablish it . the reverend author answereth , that the argument is to be denied ; for it will not follow , that if god did establish the church of the iews by such a successive progress of the covenant , deut. . . therefore he doth so now , pag. . a. why doth it not follow , that if god did establish the church of the iews by a progress of the covenant , that therefore he doth so now ? is not that true , which the reverend author confesseth to be true , that the frame of the covenant runs to us , and our seed after us in their generations ? and is not that true also which the synod here saith , ( though the reverend author saith nothing to it ) that god was an holy god , and loved the purity and glory of the church in the old testament , when he went in this way of a successive progress of the covenant ? we suppose this cannot be denied ; and therefore if a progress of the covenant did establish the church then , why not so now ? shall we think that the holy god did not so regard the purity of his church in those times , and therefore did then establish the church in this way , which now he will not do , as being now more carefull of the purity of his church ? we fear that to say this , would be to the dishonour of gods holiness and glory . and plain it is , that it is the same kingdome of god , that is , the same church-estate for substance and kind● , which is taken from the jews , and given to the gentiles , mat. . . and therefore the gentiles are said to be fellow-he●rs , and of the same body with them , ephes. . . and therefore what should hinder , but that if a progress of the covenant was a means to establish the church , then , it may be the same in ●hese 〈◊〉 also ? the synod having said in the conclusion of their fifth argument for confirming this fifth proposition , that the more holy , reforming , and glorious that the ●●m●s are or shall be , the more eminently is a successive continuation , and propagation of the church therein designed , promised , and intended . and having for this alledged these scriptures , isa. . . & . . ezek. . — . psal. . — . ier. ▪ . the reverend author applies all these very texts to the church of the iews under the new jerusalem ; which church , he saith , must consist , for the matter of it , of elect and sincere believers onely , both they and their children successively to the end of the world : for which he alledgeth the texts afore-mentioned , pag. . ans. it is freely granted , that the church of the jews , when they shall be called and converted , shall be very holy and glorious ; and yet it may be questioned , whether that church shall have none in it , but onely elect and sincere believers , both they and their children to the end of the world . for , when christ shall come , the kingdome of heaven , that is to say , the church , though it be compared to virgins , in respect of much ecclesiastical purity , yet those virgins are some of them foolish virgins , that had no oyle in their vessels with their lamps , and so must have the door of the marriage-chamber shut against them , matth. . therefore they were not all sincere believers and elect : and therefore it may be a question , whether the church of the jews at that time will be so free from hypocrites , as is said . . if these scriptures , isa. . . & . . and the rest , do prove , that when the iews shall be called , it shall be with them as is said ; then what the synod here saith is gained , and stands good , viz. that in holy , reforming , and most glorious times , there shall be a continuation and propagation of the church from parents to children , from generation to generation ; which is the very thing which is here affirmed by the synod . . though the reverend author do here suggest this difference between that church of the jews under the new ierusalem , and the gentile churches ; that these latter shall have close hypocrites creeping into them , and the children of believers , by their degeneracy when adult , stopping the successive progress of the covenant , which in the church of the iews shall be otherwise : yet sith the scripture saith , that the nations of them that are saved , shall walk in the light of that new ierusalem , rev. . and that then the lord shall be king in all the earth ; and that there shall be one lord , and his name one , zech. . and that the name of the new ierusalem shall be written upon philadelphia , a church of the gentiles , rev. . it may seem upon these considerations and the like , that there will at that time be good conformity between the church of the jews , and gentile churches , and no such disproportion or difference , that in the one there should be a continuation and propagation of the church and covenant from parents and children successively , but in the other not so . we see no ground for believing such a difference , but for ought that doth yet appear , if there shall be such a glory in the one , as that there shall be a successive p●ogress of the covenant therein , there shall or may be the like in the gentile churches also . and to conceive any essential difference between either jews or gentiles then , and gentiles now , as to the frame of the covenant it self ( whatever difference there may be as to the measures of grace , &c. as is said in the synods result , p. . ) is a conception that we see no ground for in scripture . whereas the reverend author saith , pag. . that the children of church-members in this country are commonly known to be prof●n● , va●● , licentious , vicious , stubborn , proud , &c. and complains , that yet these are accepted into immediate personall membership . the answer is , . as before , that we think there is no accepting of members children , when adult , into membership , but an accepting of them unto full communion , when they are fit for it ; and an acknowled●ing of such and others to be members already , as having had it from their birth or minority , and having not since been regularly , in any way of god , cut off from the same . to call this an accepting of th●m into membership , we think is very improper . . if the children of church-members generally were commonly known to be so vicious and profane , as is said ; this were matter of great humiliation and grief to us all : but we hope it is too much to say so of the generality , or greatest part of them , there being better things appearing in many . . be it that they are so v●cious , or not , we think there is great reason that they should be carefully watched over by elders of churches , and all superiours , that so their corruptions and sins might be mortified , and they furthered to the attainment of that saving grace of god in christ jesus . and whereas the reverend author makes an objection , that if they be so vicious , they have the more need to be under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . and in answer thereto , saith , that it cannot rationally be expected that they will submit themselves thereto , but will disregard and slight the same ; and that acceptance with god , or blessing on such means cannot be expected , because god limits his blessing to his own appointments , p. , . the answer is , that it hath been proved afore by seven or eight arguments in propos. . that these children are by gods appointment under the watch , discipline , and government of the church ; which arguments have been formerly vindicated and cleared from what the reverend author hath said against the same : and therefore for what is here said , that the exercise of church-discipline towards such , cannot be expected to be accepted of god , or blessed by him , because it wants his appointment ; we know not how to entertain this saying , except there were some better proof for it , which here is but nakedly delivered , without any proof at all : and therefore the exercise of church-discipline towards the children spoken of , may be appointed of god , accepted of him , and blessed by him , for ought that is here said to the contrary . and whereas it is said , that it cannot rationally be expected , that such persons will submit themselves to church-discipline . though we know but little of the exercise of church-discipline towards such , yet experience doth testify , that to some it hath , by the blessing of god , been profitable , and that they have submitted to it , and been bettered by it . lastly , the reverend author did a little afore in this same page , pag. . mention the vigilancy and faithful care and endeavour of church-elders towards the children mentioned , as a way or means for conveying religion down to after-generations , which we for our parts conceive to be sound and good . but then how can this stand which is there said , that such persons are not under the watch , discipline and government of the church ? for , doth not the vigilancy of church-elders , import some kinde of church-watchfulness ? can there be such vigilancy , care and endeavours towards such as are no● under the watch of the church at all ? or can such vigilancy , care and endeavour of church-elders , be a means to convey religion down to after-generations , and yet church-watchfulness toward such be without acceptance with god , and without any blessed fruit , either to the church or to the persons spoken of ? it seems t●ese things do not well cohere : so much for defence of the fifth argument , for confirming this fifth proposition . the sixth argument which the synod here useth , is , because the parents in question are personal , immediate , and yet-continuing members of the church . . that they are personall members , or members in their own persons , they say appears , . because they are personally holy , cor. . . . are baptized in their own persons . . are personally under discipline . . are personally , by means of the covenant , in a visible state of salvation . . when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant , jer. . , . ezek. . therefore they are personally in it . to this the reverend author answereth , that three of these proofs belong onely to infants , and the other two to adult persons regularly admitted into church-membership : which therefore do not concern the parents in question : which two he saith are , . that they are personally under discipline , and liable to church-censures in their own persons . . that when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant . ans. let us then consider the particulars . for the first , that they are personally holy , according to cor. . . though this be meant , as the reverend author saith , that they are thus holy federally and relatively , yet it is , as he acknowledgeth , in their own persons ; and if so , doth it not then follow , that they are church-members in their own persons ? can persons be truly called holy , as in the text alledged , or an holy seed , as ezra . and yet not be members of the visible church ? whether this holiness be inherent , or only federal and relative , yet sith they are thus holy in their own persons , we conceive they must therefore be granted to be church-members in their own persons . and though they first received this holiness in their minority , yet for ought we see their persons are still partakers of it , until in some way of god they be cut off from the same : which the parents in question have not been , but being qualified as the proposition expresseth , are far from deserving any such matter . for the second , that they are baptized in their own persons ; though this be , as the reverend author saith , by and for their parents covenanting for them , they being uncapable of covenanting for themselves ; yet this being regularly done , how can it be avoided , but , as the synod saith , it is a divine testimony that they are in their own persons members of the church . for , we conceive , the lord hath not appointed baptism , the seal of membership , to be applied to such as are not members : and to say , they are not members in their own persons , but in their parents , would infer , that they should not have been baptized in their own persons , but in their parents , their parents receiving baptism for them ; which the reverend author , we are perswaded , is far from affirming . and therefore they being regularly baptized in their own persons , how can it be avoided but that they are church-members in their own persons , untill they be regularly cut off from the same ? for that other particular , that by meanes of the covenant they are personally in a visible state of salvation ; the reverend author saith nothing hereto , but onely repeats it with this addition or explanation , " while nothing appears to the contrary : which clause may be added , and yet the purpose of the synod in this particular not at all hindred thereby . for if the persons spoken of be in their own persons in a visible state of salvation , whi●● nothing appears to the contrary ; doth it not then follow , that so long they are visible church-members in their own persons : will any body say that they are saved in their parents , and not in their own persons ? the synod conceived that none would so say : and that therefore it could not be said , that they are not members in their own persons but in their parents : whereto the reverend author saith nothing . as for that clause , " while nothing appears to the contrary , let the terms of the proposition be considered , and we conceive it cannot rationally and charitably be denied , but that the persons spoken of , as they were in a state of salvation when infant , so they are so still for ought appears to the contrary . for the contrary cannot be evinced and evidenced against them , either by ignorance , or scandal , or forsaking the covenant , or any such thing , they being such as understand the doctrine of faith , and publickly assent thereto , not scandalous in life , but commendably further qualified , as is there expressed ; so that for ought that appears to the contrary , they are in a visible state of salvation , and consequently they are personally church-members , and so herein the purpose of the synod is gained . for the other two particulars , which the reverend author saith , do belong to adult persons regularly admitted into church-membership , and so do not concern the parents in question ; the one is , that they are personally under discipline , and liable to church-censures in their own persons . for answer to this , he refers to his examination of propos. . and we refer the reader to our defence of that proposition against what he there said . the other particular , which is the last here mentioned , viz. that when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant ; his answer to it is , that this is not proved concerning infants , nor can be . ans. suppose it cannot , yet if that be proved for which the synod brings it , why may not that suffice , though this other be not proved , to which the reverend author applies it ? plain it is that the synod neither spake nor meant this of infants , but of such as are now parents , and therefore past their infancy : and therefore if these parents , when they commit iniquity , do break the covenant , then the purpose of the synod is gained , though such a thing could not be affirmed of infants . but if proofs for this or that may not be accepted , because they are not sufficient for confirming some other things whereto they were neither alledged nor intended , let the judicious and impartial reader consider whether this be equal and fair , and whether arguments in such a way be sufficiently answered . for the particular in hand the synod argueth , that the parents in question are personally in the covenant , because when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant ; alledging for this , ier. . , . ezek. . where breaking of covenant is expresly charged upon the persons there spoken of . now doth not this prove the thing intended ? sure , if their committing iniquity be breaking of covenant , either such persons were in the covenant , or else we must say a man may be guilty of breach of covenant , when he was not in it . and that the committing iniquity by the persons spoken of , is a breaking of covenant , the reverend author doth more then once acknowledge and testify , pag. , , , , . it were too long to transcribe all the words that are to this purpose in the pages quoted , but , in sum , there is thus much there affirmed and taught , that the covenant in which children are comprehended in their minority , leaves them under engagement to duty and obedience , when they become adult , which if they do not accordingly perform , they are then transgressors of the covenant , and breakers of it . now if they be breakers of it , is it not thereby clear that they are comprehended in it ? and so what is here said by the synod stands good . thus of the first particular , that the parents in question are personal members . the second is , that they are immediate members , as to the essence of membership , ( i. e. that they themselves in their own persons are the immediate subjects of this adjunct of church-membership ) though they come to it by means of their parents covenanting . for proof whereof , one thing alledged by the synod , is that iohn . . , . where the children are said to have a part in the lord , ( to which church-membership is equivalent ) as well as the parents ; and nothing coming between this subject ( the children ) so as to sever it from the adjunct ( a part in the lord ) therefore they conclude , that the children are immediate subjects of church-membership , or immediate members . now what saith the reverend author unto this ? why , that which he saith , is , that though nothing come between to sever that adjunct from the subject , yet something comes between to bring that subject and adjunct together , viz. the parents covenanting for the childe : which if it did not come between , they would be severed , as they are in othe● children . ans. but what is there in this to overthrow the synods assertion ? do not they expresly grant , in terms as plain as can be spoken , and that more then once , that the children come to this adj●nct of church-membership by means of their parents covenanting ? see their words in their pag. . and therefore this can be no removing of what they have said , being nothing but the very same with that which they have said before . the question is not about the way or mean● of childrens membership , for it is freely yielded that in this respect it is mediate , that is , they come unto it by means of the parents covenanting ; but the question is about the ess●●●● , nature or k●m●e of their membership : whether in this respect it be not the same with the parents , and they as well as the parents the immediate subjects of it ; and the granting of the former , is no deniall of this other . if a parent have room or place in such or such an house , and his childe be there also , though he come thither in the parents arms , yet may it not be said that this childe hath a place and being in the house , as truly and as properly as the parent , although he came unto it by the parents means ? even so it is in the case in hand ; the childe comes to be in covenant , and so in the church , by the parents covenanting , yet now he is in the church , and in the covenant , and hath a room and place therein , as truly and as properly as the parent . again , the synod having said , that their visible ingraffing into christ the head , and so into the church his body , is sealed in baptism : and that in ingraffing , nothing comes between the graft and the stock ; their union is immediate . the reverend author answereth , that yet it will not follow that they are immediate members of the visible church . ans. and why will not this follow ? if their union with the church be ingraffing , and that in ingraffing , nothing comes between the g●●ft and the stock , doth it not then follow , that their union with the church is immediate , and they immediate members of it ? for , as for that which is here said , that this union is not properly , but metaphorically called ingraffing , because there is some similitude here , but similitudes do run on four feet : it sufficeth that they agree in the main point . ans. but how do they agree therein , if for all this in graffing there be something between the stock and them ? is it not a main point in ingraffing , that the union between the branch and the stock be immediate , and that nothing lye between them ? who knoweth not that if it be not so , but that some stock or stone , or something else be between them , so that their union be not immedi●te ; who knoweth not that in such case the ingr●ffing is spoiled , and the benefit of the branch interrupted , because its union with the stock is not immediate ? if then the union of members with the church be ●●graffing , how can it be avoided but it must be immediate , and so they be immediate members ? as for that which is here subjoyned , that infants and children in minority do partake of baptism and other priviledges , by means of their parents covenanting for them , but adult persons by their personall covenanting for themselves and their seed . this is nothing to the essence of their membership , but onely speaks to the way and mean● how they come to it , which is not the thing in question : for it may be granted , that children come to be members by their parents covenanting for them , and the parents by their own covenanting , and yet their membership , notwithstanding this different way of attaining it , may be one and the same for essence and kinde , and both have immediate conjunction with the church . for that where the synod saith , " that in deut. . . the children were personally and immediately part of the people of god , or members of the church of israel , as well as the parents . the answer of the reverend author is , that the text doth not prove it . ans. and yet the words are express and plain , that they did all stand before the lord , to enter into covenant with him , that he might establish them a people to himself ; and the persons of whom this is said , are not onely the men of israel , but also their wives , and their little ones : so that if the men of israel , and their wives , were personally and immediately members of that church , their little ones , for ought that appears , were so also : for they are all alike spoken of without difference . whereas the synod said , that to be in covenant , or to be a covenantee , is the formalis ratio of a church-member ; and the children being in the covenant , are therefore the immediate subjects of the formalis ratio of membership , and so immediate members . the answer of the reverend author is , that though to be in covenant be the formalis ratio of a church-member , yet it will not follow , that every covenantee doth immediately covenant for himself , nor that every member of the church is an immediate member , pag. . ans. for the one of these , viz. of covenanting immediately for themselves , the synod never said nor meant that little children did so covenant , nor inferred any such thing from their being in covenant , and so being partakers of the formalis ratio of church-membership ; but a little afore , and also in this very place do acknowledge , that one may come to be in covenant one way , and another in another : and therefore though children do not covenant immediately for themselves , yet what the synod inferreth from their being partakers of the formalis ratio of church-membership , is not at all infringed by this branch of the reply . but for the other , of being immediate members , why doth not this follow from their being partakers of the covenant , the formalis ratio of membership ? can one be partaker of the form , or formalis ratio of this or that , and yet not be immediately partaker of the effect , or thing formed , but something must first intervene and come between ? if the reasonable soul , and its conjunction with the body , be the formalis ratio of a man ; can there be this , and yet no man immediately , but something more must come between to make a man ? we suppose it cannot be denied but here is a man immediately , as being partaker of the formalis ratio of a man. and even so it may be said in the present case , that children being partakers of the covenant , the formalis ratio of church-members , they are therefore immediate members . the synod having said , that to act in covenant , is but the instrumentall means of membership , and yet children are not without this neither : for the act of the parent ( their publick person ) is accounted theirs — the reverend author answereth , that the parents acting in ●●v●n●n●ing for their infant - 〈◊〉 , hath been before proved to be the procreant cause of 〈…〉 , pag . ans. it was indeed before said , viz. pag . that he looked at believing confederating 〈◊〉 , not as the instrumentall , but as the procreant caus● ; as of the c●hil●● b●m● , by his generating of him , so also of his church-membership , by his confederating for him . this was s●ia indeed in the page mentioned , but that it was so proved , we cannot say ; if this word [ procreating ] be taken as it is expressed , not onely as contrad●sti●ct from the instrumentall cause , but as a deniall thereof , for so his expression runs . viz. not as the instrumentall , but as the procreant cause , &c. now that it hath been proved , that the parents act in covenanting is not the instrumentall cause , but the procreant of the childes membership , this indeed hath been said once and again but we do not see ●t proved at all . and indeed how can it ? for this procreant cause , sith it is not an instrumentall , must then be the principall-cause : and is this proved , that the parents act in covenanting is not the instrumen●●ll , but the principall cause of the childes membership ? what shall then become of gods institution in this matter ? if the parents act herein be such a procreant cause as is not instrumentall , then it must be the principall ; and then what place is there left for gods institution ? and how doth the reverend author agree with himself , who saith , th●s is the procreant cause , and that by gods institution , and yet is not the cause instrumentall ? if the parents act be the cause of the childs membership by gods institution , how can it be avoided but it must be instrumentall , as the synod said : but if it be so procreant , as not to be instrumentall , how then can it be by gods institution , as he saith it is . these things need reconciling . for our parts , we see no reason to the contrary , but that ▪ that of logicians is right , who place the procreant cause under the head of the ●ffi●i●n , and this act of the parents that is here spoken of , being not the principall effi●ent of the childs membership , must needs be the instrumentall , as the synod hath said ; and therefore such a procreant as is not instrumentall , nor yet principall , we confess we know not where to place it . besides , when the reverend author in pag. . makes this covenant-act of the parent to be the procreant cause of the childs membership , even as the paren● is the cause of the ch●l●●●em , by his generation of him ; doth not this plainly infer that which yet he denieth , that such a parent is the instrumental cause of the childs membership ? for , is any parent such a procreant cause of his childs being by gen●raci●n , as not to be instrumental under god therein ? how then are children said to be by the gift and blessing of god , psa. ● . . ●en●s . . . & . . & . . and the want of children even in married persons to be by gods restraining hand , and sh●tting up the w●●b ? gen. . . & . . & . . doth not this plainly shew , that parents are but instrumental under god in the begetting of children ? and therefore if the parent be the cause of the childs membership in like sort , as of the childs natural being by his generating of him , then it must be granted , that in this of his church-membership ▪ he is no otherwise a procreant cause of it , but as instrumental ; for in that of the childs natural being it is certainly so : and that of membe●ship being , as the reverend author saith , l●ke unto this other , therefore in this of the childs membership it is so also . moreover , i● this well hold , that the parent is such a procreant cause of the childs membership by confederating for him , as he is of the childs na●ur●l ●en● by 〈◊〉 ; then look as the child which the parent generates , is personally , immediately formally and actually a man for one of mankind as well as the parent ; so by the membership which the parents confederating procreates for him , he is a personal , immediate , formal and actual church-member . the synod , to shew that children are actual , complea● , and immediate members , asketh , what do they want hereunto ? is it covenan●-interest , which is the formalis ratio of membership ? no , they are in covenant . is it divine gran● , and institution , which is the principal efficient ? no , god hath clearly declared that he gra●ts them a portion in his church , and appoints them to be members thereof . is it an act of covenanting , which is the instrumental means ? no , they have this also reputatively by divine appointment , making the parent a publick person , and accounting them to covenant in his covenanting . the sum is , they want nothing that is requisite to complea● and immediate membership . now what saith the reverend author to this ? that which he saith , is this , that all that is here expressed , doth not supply what is wanting to invest little children with such membership . for , though they are in covenant , which is the formalis ratio of their membership , yet it is mediante parentum foedere , and so their membership is mediate . ans. but this speaks nothing to the nature and kind of their membership , but onely to the way and means of attaining it , which may be different from that of adult persons , and yet the thing be the same . if the chief captain obtain by a great sum to be a freeman of rome , and paul be free born , act. . . yet pauls freedome is either better then the other , or at least no worse ; and so it may be said of the church-membership of little children . there is wanting unto children in minority to make them such members , a personal fitness to act in covenant for themselves . ans. but this is nothing to the nature of their membership , but onely speaks of the way of attaining it by their own act . but shall we say that paul wanted something to make him a free roman , because he had no personal fitness nor ability to procure that freedome to himself by his own act , but onely was so born ? or shall we say that david and others mentioned in psal. . . isai. . . wanted something of compleat , proper and immediate interest in god , because they had their interest from their mothers womb , and did not attain it by their own personal act ? for our parts we dare not so say , and by like reason dare not deny , but that the interest of little children in the visible church , may be proper , compleat and immediate , though they have not come to it by their own act , but have had it from their minority or birth . for , to have god for their god is as great a blessing , as to be an actual and immediate member of the visible church ; and yet we see want of personall fitness to act for themselves , did not hinder from the one , and why then should it hinder from the other ? synod . a different manner and means of conveying the covenant to us , or of making us members , doth not make a different sort of members ; we are as truly , personally and immediately members of the body of fallen mankind , and by nature heirs of the condemnation pertaining thereto , as adam was , though he came to ●e so by his own pers●n●l act , and we by the act of our publick person , pag. . . the reverend author in his answer hereto grants , that in the case of adam it is so , as is said ; but , saith he , this doth not suit the the case of i●fan●s in question . for , . adam stood as a publick person for all mankind ; no parent is so for all his posterity , but for his infants and children in minority . . adams covenant was onely with the lord , and not with any church , as the covenant of confederate parents is . . the parents breaking the covenant doth not make his children heirs of condemnation , as adams did all mankind , pag. . . for answer whereto , we may remember what himself did formerly express , that similitudes do not run on four feet ; if they agree in the main point that may suff●● , though in other things they d●ffer . if therefore there were these three differences , and as many more , between the cases alledged , yet where is there any difference in the main point ? are not we as truely , personally , and immediately members of the body of fallen mankinde , as adam was ? this the reverend author doth not deny , but in plain words doth grant it : and is not then the purpose of the synod , in alledging this instance , clearly gained ? doth it not plainly appear thereby , that a different way and means of being in covenant , doth not make a different sort of membership ? adam was a member of fallen mankinde , and so are we , though he came to be so by his own personal act , and we by him , or by his act for us ? which doth clearly shew what the synod saith , that a different way and means of being members , doth not alter the nature and kinde of membership ; which we see doth hold as touching being a member of fallen mankinde , and we see no reason but it may also hold as touching being a member of a visible church . there is not any to be accounted a publick person , as adam was , but onely iesus christ for all that are in him , rom. . , to . pag. . ans. yet it is evident , though jesus christ was a publick person for all that are in him , as adam was , yet in the number of persons there is difference ; adam standing for all mankinde , and christ standing onely for his redeemed , the elect. now if christ may be truely called a publick person for all his , as adam was , though adam was for them that were farre more in number ; why may not then a consederating parent be counted a publick person for his children though they be farre less in number then the other ? but herein the cases seem parallel ; adam for all in him , christ jesus for all in him , and the confederating parent for all in him . we see not how this can justly be denied by the reverend author , si●h he calls these parents " v●dertakers for their children , pag. . and again , pag. . and such undertakers , that the children are bound by their parents acting to perform that covenant , when they shall become capable : which seems to us to be the same , or as much as is meant , when they are called publick persons for their children . another similitude used by the synod to illustrate the thing in question , is , from a prince giving lands to a man and his heirs successively while they continue loyall ; in which case the following heir is a true and immediate owner of that land , and may be personally disinherited , if d●sloyall , as well as his father before him . to this the answer is , that this similitude doth not sort the case in question ; f●r , as for infants , they cannot be visibly disl●yall , and adult persons not regularly joyned to the church , have cut off the entail of the covenant from themselves and their posterity by their personall disloyalty . ans. but for all this , the similitude may suit the case in question , though the reverend author say it doth not . for , as the following heir is an immediate owner of that land , till for disloyalty he be disinherited ; so the following children are immediate church-members , till some of them for their sin be cut off from their membership . is not here plain suitableness in the similitude ? we conceive it is apparent and manifest . for , if infants cannot be disl●yal , and if adult persons be cut off for disloyalty , is it not manifest , that both are immediate owners till they be cut off ? which is the thing the synod affirms . concerning infants , it seems they are such true and immediate owners of church-membership , as that they cannot be cut off therefrom , because they cannot be so disloyal as to deserve such a thing : and for the adult persons , if the entaile of the covenant be cut off from them and their posterity by their personal disloyalty ; doth not this clearly shew , that they were truely and immediately in the covenant , till their disloyalty cut them off ? and so the similitude stands suitable and good for the purpose for which the synod brings it . but as for this " cutting off the entail of the covenant , which is here spoken of ; we must confess we do not see how such a thing can justly be charged upon the persons spoken of in this proposition : for , they understand the doctrine of faith , and give their assent thereto ; ●hey are not scandalous in life , they solemnly own the covenant , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord : and is this such disloyalty , as to be a cutting off the covenant and enta●l of it ? we think it were hard to prove such a thing , and do fear that charity will not allow to affirm it . nor that which is here said in this pag. . that nothing is given to them and theirs by the covenant , wh●●h ●hey presume to usurp without warrant from god. for , . by the covenant god gives himself to be a god to his people , and to their seed in their generations , gen. . and shall we say this is nothing ? god is almighty , and all-sufficient , and is it nothing to have such a god to be a god to us , and to our seed ? . and when the persons in question are such as were regularly in covenant in their infan●● , by means of their parents covenanting for them , as the reverend author doth acknowledge , how can their owning this covenant , when they become adult , be justly counted a presuming to usurp the covenant without warrant from god ? we reade of them that are blamed , and that justly , for forsak●ng the covenant which god made with their fathers , deut. . . judg. . . but that owning this covenant should be a forsaking of it , and an usurping of it without warrant from god , and a presuming ▪ we do not see how this can be proved . to some indeed the lord saith , what hast thou to do to take my covenant in thy mo●th ? psal . but doth the lord say this to such as were qualified as in this fifth proposition ? the contrary is most clear : for these in this psal. . are expresly called wicked , such as did hate to be instructed and reformed , were culpable for consenting with thieves , partaking with adulterers , slandering , and all evil speaking , &c. whereas the persons in question are not culpable for any such thing , being expresly said to be not scandalous in life ; but on the contrary furnished with many good and commendable qualifications , and were regularly admitted into the covenant in their minority : and therefore being so unl●ke the persons that are blamed for tak●ng g●ds covenant into their mouth , we see no ground to say they have 〈◊〉 off the entail of the covenant by their disloyalty , and that nothing is given to them and theirs by it , but that they presume to usurp it without wa●rant from god : we see no warrant from god so to say or think of such persons . a member ( saith the synod ) is one that according to rule , or divine institution , is within the visible church . they say true , saith the reverend author : but that refutes nothing that i have said concerning mediate and immediate members , for both are within the church , though both have not full communion with the church in all ordinances . ans. the synod never said , that all that are within the church have such full communion , and therefore this is nothing against them : but if all members be within the church according to divine institution , how can it be avoided but they are all immediate members of the church ? for , if they be all within the church , then there is nothing as a medium between the church and them , or any of them , and so they are all immediate members , as the synod saith . whether all have full communion , is one thing , and whether all be immediate members , is another ; and the denying of the former , is no infringing of the latter . the synod having mentioned an objection , that if children be compleat and immediate members as their parents , they shall then immediately have all church-priviledges as their parents have : and making this answer , that it followeth not ; all priviledges that belong to members as such , do belong to the children as well as the parents : but all priviledges do not so . a member as such ( or all members ) may not partake of all priviledges , but they are to make progress both in memberly duties and priviledges , as their age , capacity , and qualifications do fit them for the same . to this the reverend author auswereth , that their answer to the objection is insufficient ; for the best members have need to make prōgress in memberly duties and qualifications , yet all have that communion that suits their membership : infants in baptism , &c. and adult persons in the seals , voting , &c. pag. , . ans. by this it seems the difference lies here , that whereas some church-members have communion in all church-priviledges , and others not in all , but onely in some ; the synod apprehends the reason of this difference to be , because some are yet defective in qualifications , and fitness for such full communion , though not wanting compleat and immediate membership : but the reverend author makes the reason of the difference to be from the different kinde of membership , the one sort being onely mediate members , and the other immediate . all have that communion for which they are qualified , saith the synod : all have that communion which suits their membership , saith the reverend author . for clearing of which point , it may not be a miss to consider of other societies , and how it is in them ; as that of the family , and of the civil state : in both which it is clear , that all have not like communion in priviledges ; but who can say that this ariseth from their different membership in the societies of which they are ? or how can it be denied , but that this ariseth from their different qualifications ? an infant , an idiot , one distracted , or distempered with frenzy , &c. such cannot enjoy all priviledges in the family , or civil state , as others may ; and the reason is , because they are not fitly qualified : but who can say they are not compleat , and proper , and immediate members of the family or state , as well as others ? he that doth injury to such an one , doth injury to one that is as truely and properly a member of the society , as those that are better qualified ; and such injuries are punishable with death , or otherwise , as the nature of the offence doth require , as being injuries to one that is truely and properly a personal and immediate subject and member of the common-wealth , though there might be many other subjects better qualified ? in like sort in church-society , some may enjoy more full com●union then others , and yet not as being more truely partakers of proper personal , and immediate membership , but because they are better qualified . thus of the second particular , that the parents in question are immediate members . the third is , that their membership still continues in adult age , and ceaseth not with their infancy ; . because in scripture persons are broken off onely for notorious sin , or incorrigible in penitency and unbelief , not for growing up to adult age , rom. . . the reverend author answereth , that this reason doth not prove , that the membership of all baptized in infancy continues in adult age . ans. nor did the synod so say , nor produce that reason and scripture for such purpose ; but their purpose therein was this , viz. to prove that the parents in question do still continue members : which may be true , though all 〈◊〉 are baptized in infancy do not . for thus their argument lies : if persons be not broken off but for notorious sin , or incorrigible in penitency and unbelief ; then the parents in question are not broken off , but do still continue members : for any such notorious sin ▪ &c. cannot justly be charged upon them , witness the terms of the proposition . to this purpose is this reason alledged by the synod ; and therefore though the membership of ●ll baptized in infancy do not continue in adult age , the synod loseth nothing thereby , a● having never affirmed any such thing . but why doth not this reason and text prove the thing intended by the synod ? the reverend author gives this reason ; ●ecause that text rom. . . spe●k onely of such as have been received into membership by their personal faith , and covenanting with the church visibly . a. the text clearly speaks of the people or nation of the iews , of whom it is said , that they were a disobedient and gainsaying people , rom. . ● . that they , as concerning the gospel , were enemies , rom. . . that they killed the lord iesus , and their own prophets , and persecuted the ap●stles , pleased not god , and were contrary to all men , &c. thess. . , . and shall we say , that notwithstanding all this , they were received into compleat and immediate membership by their personal faith , & c ? besides , it is not very credible , that all the members of the jewish church were received into compleat and immediate membership by their personal faith , if that be true which the reverend author said , pag. . that that church was to be propagated and continued by natu●●● generation in a lineall descent from abraham , by isaac and jacob , t●ll the coming of christ ; and that there was no ordinance for casting out their members for sins against the morall law , as there is under the gospel , pag. . which things ( if true ) do import , that visible faith was not the thing looked for in receiving the members of that church , nor in continuing of them , but their natural generation , and lineal d●sc●n● , , might suffice : how then can that stand which is here said , that the persons sp●k●n of in r●m . . . were such as were received into membership 〈…〉 , when as that text speaks of the members of the church of the jews , who ( if the reverend authors apprehension be right ) were not so received , but by lineal succession , by natural generation ; christian churches differing from that church , and being of another sort , as being to be propagated and continued by regeneration , made visible by a right confession , and profession of faith , pag. . the sum is this , in the one place he makes it peculiar to christian churches to be propagated by regeneration , and 〈◊〉 ●●sibly prof●●●ed ; and that in the church of the jews it was othe●wise : and in the other place , which certainly speaks of the church of the jews , he saith it speaks of emb●●● received by ●her personal faith ▪ wherein there seems to be a rep●gnancy . our 〈◊〉 of adult persons that break off themselves from the covenant by pr●●h●ne neglect or contempt of the ordinances , or uns●table conve●s●a●● , pag. . ans. then the parents in question are not broken off at all , but their membersh●p 〈◊〉 continues , as the synod saith ; for the terms of the proposition will not suffer such prophaneness and ●n empt of o●●●nances , and 〈◊〉 conversation , to be justly charged upon them ; and if there be the causes for which men are 〈◊〉 off , is not then this reason of the synod plainly confirmed and made good ? for they argue , that the persons in question do still continue members , because 〈…〉 notorious sin , impenitency , incorrigibleness , and the like ; and here it is said , that men are broken off by pro●h●●eness , contempt of the ordinances , and unsuitable conversation ; which sayings are in effect the same , or little different , and both of them do witness that the persons spoken of are not broken off , as not being guilty of any such wickedness or misdemeanours . who ever said that any were broken off for growing up to adult age ? ans. if the persons described in the proposition be said to be broken off , what is this l●ss then the thing that is so disowned ? it cannot be denyed but they were once within the church , and it cannot be said that they are broken off for any scandal in their conversation ; but coming up to the terms in the proposition are far from such evil , and on the contrary are furnished with many good and commendable qualifications , as knowledge , profession , s●●jection to christs government , owning the covenant , and the like . now if notwithstanding all this , they be declared to be no members of the church , but broken off from it , though they were once in it ; what is this less then to say , they are broken off by growing up to adult age ? and see reply of the reverend author to this argument , p. . . saith the synod , the iews children circumcised did not cease to be members by growing up , but continued in the church , and were by vertue of their membership received in infancy , bound unto various duties , and in special to those solemn personal professions that pertained to adult members , not as then entring into a new membership , but as making a progress in memberly duties , deut. . — . & . , . gal. . . to this the answer is , . that the iewes children circumcised were bound to various duties , and to those solemn professions mentioned , is clear enough by the texts alledged , and sundry other : whereunto i willingly adde , that baptisme also bindeth the infant-seed of confederates to various gospel-duties , and especially this of using all mean , &c. ans. and do not both these shew that which the synod expresseth , that children do not cease to be members by growing up , but do still continue in the church ? for if it was so with the jews children , is it not also so with ours , according to the synods arguing ? and if by vertue of that membership received in infancy , the circumcised then did , and the baptized now do stand bound to various duties when adult , how can it be avoided , but that membership received in infancy then did , and now doth continue in adult age ? for , when & as long as one stands bound by a covenant , then and so long that covenant must needs remain in being , for otherwise how could one stand bound by it ? can one be bound by that which is not in being ? one would think this were not possible . therefore by this being bound by the covenant and membership received in infancy , to various duties when adult , it appeareth , that the covenant and membership received in infancy doth still continue in adult age , and so the purpose of the synod is gained . but . saith the reverend author , it is not proved by those texts , that w●●n they were adult they did not enter into a new membership ; rather the contrary appears by deut. . , . ans. if so , then they did every third year enter into a new membership : for the reverend author conceives that what is said to be done in deut. , . was done every third year , as before ● . . but who knows not that the same persons or people may many a time enter into covenant , or renew their covenant with god , and yet not thereby enter into so many new memberships ? it seems by psal. . . where it is said , they have made a covenant with me by sacrifice , that so oft as sacrifice was offered , so oft there was a covenant made between god and them ; and yet it will not follow , that at every time of sacrificing there was an entring into a new membership : it may suffice to say , as the synod doth , that at all such times there was a prog●●s● in memberly duties . but why should we think that the covenant in deut. . was entring into a new membership ? the reason rendred , is this ; because they entred into the covenant personally and immediately , not in and by their parents , as they did in infancy , gen. . . and if covenanting be the form of church-membership , then a different form of covenanting , makes a different kinde of membership ; mediate and immediate covenanting , makes mediate and immediate members . ans. but is this certain , that a different way of covenanting , makes a different kinde of membership ? in gen. . there is covenanting by divi●ing the he●fe● , the go● , &c. in the midst , and passing between the pieces or parts ▪ and so in jer. . in gen. . there is covenanting by silence , and falling upon the face : in nehem. . . there is covenanting by writing and sealing of it ; in chron. . by swearing with a loud voice , and by engaging , that ●hosoever should not do as is there promised , should be put to death . here we see are various wayes of covenanting ; but shall we say that these do infer divers kinds of membership ? then it would follow , that if the same persons or people should divers times enter into covenant , or renew their covenant , and this sometimes in one of these wayes , and sometimes in another , if a different form of covenanting do make a different kind of membership , it would follow , that the same persons and people might many times over , again and again enter into a new kin● of membership ; which we suppose none will affirm , and therefore this that is here said will not hold : the thing for essence and kind may be the same , when the way and manner of doing may be various . moreover , covenanting taken for our act in making or renewing the covenant , is not the form of membership ( this is but the instrumental efficient ) but covenant-interest , or to be in covenant , is the formalis ratio of membership ( that is it which the synod affirms pag. . ) and that is the immediate , actual , and proper portion of the children , as well as of the parents . the third argument of the synod , is , from the relation of born servants and subjects , by which the scripture s●●s forth the state of children in the church , levit. , . ezek. . . which relations ( as all men know ) do no●●eas● with infancy , but do continue in adult age : and ●ince it also follows , that one special end of membership received in infancy , is to leave persons under engagement to service and subjection to christ in his church when grow● up , &c. pag. , . the answer to this , is , that the one of these texts is typical , figuring the t●●e of grace , whereby now christ hath freed us from the servitude of sin and satan , &c. the other text is a prophecy of the calling of the elect nation of the iews , and of the state of the church under the new ierusalem : and therefore these do neither of them suit the thing in question . ans. but for the present nothing appears to the contrary , but they may be suitable ; yet , if the thing it self for which those texts are alledged , be sound and good , the inference which the synod makes is so also , though the texts were not so apt . for , if the children in the church be in state as born servants and subjects to christ , then this state and relation , and so their membership , doth not cease with infancy , but continues in adult age . and we hope the reverend author will not deny , but for state they are as born servants , and subjects to christ , though he thinks the texts quoted are not apt proofs for it ; but if the thing be not denied , the argument of the synod stands good for the continuance of their membership . grant them to be in the state of born servants and subjects in their infancy , and then it must be granted , that this state continueth when they are adult , and so their membership doth not cease with their infancy : deny that their membership continueth when adult , and then it must be said , either that their state in infancy is not as born servants and subjects , or that such relations do cease with infancy . but for the reverend author , he expresly grants , that one special end of membership received in infancy , is to leave persons under engagement to service and subjection to christ in his church when grown up , when they are fittest for it , and have most need of it , pag . which is the very same that is here affirmed by the synod : and doth not that hence follow which the synod inferreth , that therefore their membership did not cease with infancy , but doth still continue ? it seems to follow unavoidably : for how can they when adult , or grown up , be under engagement to service and subjection , as the end of membership received in infancy , if that membership do not still continue , but together with their infancy be now past and gone ? if they be still under engagement , then their covenant doth still continue , and consequently their membership . yet , when all this is done , neither can the parents nor the church give grace unto the children , that when they become adult they may be spiritually fit for personal and immediate membership : and to bring them into it without such fitness visibly , is to prophane the ordinances , and to pollute the lords sanctuary , pag . ans. it is true , none can give grace but god , who is the god of all grace : but for bringing the adult persons spoken of into membership , we conceive there is no such thing here intended by the synod , nor can be spoken of in any propriety of speech concerning the persons in question ; they being such as were members from their infancy , and are accounted by the synod still to continue members now when adult , and therefore there is no bringing of them into membership . that which is here spoken of , were more aptly called an acknowledging of them to be members : and how the acknowledging of such persons , as the proposition describes , to be and continue members , can be judged a prophanation of the ordinances , or a polluting of the lords sanctuary , we confess we do not understand : for we know they were brought into membership by gods own institution and appointment , and we do not know that they have in any way of god been put from it ; nor , considering the term in the proposition , can be justly judged to deserve any such matter , but the contrary : and therefore the acknowledging of them to be members , can be no such prophaning and polluting , as is spoken of . the fourth argument of the synod , to shew that the persons spoken of do still continue members , is this : because there is no ordinary way of cessation of membership , but by death , dismission , excommunication , or dissolution of the society ; none of which is the case of the persons in question . whereto the reverend author answereth , that the ennumeration is insufficient ; there is another ordinary way , i. e. desertion . thus esau's membership ceased ; and so many theirs , who being adult , regard not to joyn with the church by their personal and immediate confederation , &c. and if forsaking the church may suffice to deprive those of church-priviledges , who were before in personal and immediate church-fell●wship , joh. . . how much more those who never had such membership ? &c. what can the mediate membership which such had in infancy , advantage them for continuing in membership , when being adult they live in the breach of that covenant , whereby they were left under engagement in their infancy unto service and subjection to christ in the church ? ans. if the ennumeration were not sufficient , but that that of desertion ▪ were needful to be added , yet this would not avail to prove the contrary to what the synod here saith , but the membership of the persons in question may still continue for all this : for , being qualified as the proposition expresseth , they are farre from being guilty of such desertion , or forsaking of the church of god ; and therefore it is not this , though it were added to the particulars in the argument , that can hinder their still continuing to be members . nor can they be justly charged as guilty of such things as are here expressed , viz. not regarding to joyn with the church by their personal and immediate confederation , nor to fit themselves for it , but to despise the church of god , not desiring nor endeavouring after spiritual fitness , but living in the breach of that covenant , &c. these things we cannot see how they can justly be imputed to the persons qualified as the proposition expresseth , but they may still continue to be members , as not being culpable of any such things , as these here mentioned , to un-member them . here also it may be observed , how the reverend author doth again acknowledge , that the sins of adult persons , who were admitted in infancy , are a breach of that covenant in which they were then comprehended , and which left them under engagement unto service and subjection to christ in the church : which sheweth that they are still in the covenant , though now they be adult ; for otherwise , how could their sins be breach of covenant ? and if they be still in covenant , then they still continue members , and their membership did not cease with their infancy , which is the thing here affirmed by the synod . for that of esau , whose membership is said to cease by desertion the reverend author may remember , that he hath more then one told us of invalidity of proofs from the old testaments for things 〈◊〉 gospel-times : which proofs , though we cannot say but they may b● valid , yet why should himself use them against us , ( for this of esau is from the old testament ) if his apprehension be right , that such proofs are not valid ? but for the thing it self , of the cessation of membership by a mans own act , this hath been spoken unto before , pag. . . in defence of the first argument for this fifth proposition : where also was considered that text ioh. . . which is here alledged again : to which former place we refer the reader ; onely adding thus much , that the cessation of membersip which the synod here speaks of , is such cessation as is ordinary , but if esau ' ▪ were by his own act alone , why may we not say that there was something in it extraordinary ? though it is not any where said that it was by his own act : if any afffirm that it was , it stands upon them to prove it , for affirmanti incumbit probatie . and though it be not said that the church had any hand in it , yet negative arguments in matter of fact are not cogent , though in matters of faith they be : but for matter of fact , we know many things were done that are not written , ioh. . . & . . and therefore though this be not written , that there was any church-proceedings against esau for his departing from the church , and therefore we do not say there was ; yet they that say there was not , must prove there was not , because the meer not mentioning that there was , is no sufficient proof that there was not : and for any further proof , that esau's falling off from his church-membership was by his own act alone ; any further proof for this , then meerly the not expressing of any church-proceedings against him , we finde none . the fifth argument of the synod for confirming this particular , that the persons spoken of do still continue members , is this : because otherwise a person admitted a member , and sealed by baptism , not cast out , nor deserving so to be , may ( the church whereof he was , still remaining ) become a non-member , out of the church , and of the unclean world ; which the scripture acknowledgeth not . whereto the answer in sum is this , that as a freemans childe of some corporation is free-born , and may in his minority trade under his father ; yet being grown up , must personally enter into the common engagement of freemen , or else may not trade for himself , but is a non-freeman by his own default , and hath lost his freedom by not entring in his own person into the common engagement , &c. so , and much more justly , an adult person makes himself to become a non-member by not covenanting personally as his father did . ans. it may be justly questioned , whether this comparison do suit the case in hand . for , . all the priviledge of this freemans childe that is mentioned , is this , that he may in his minority trade under his father ; which priviledge doth not at all arise from his being the childe of a freeman ; and the reason is , because one that is not a childe , but onely a servant of such a freeman , may trade under the freeman ▪ as his master . this being the priviledge of such freemen , that their servants , and others belonging to them , though they are not free , yet may trade for them , and in their names : which is upon then atter no priviledge at all to the childe or servant , but onely to the freeman himself under whom they trade . but will any say , that to be a childe of a church-member is no priviledge at all to a childe , but onely to the father ? or will any say , that the childe hath no more priviledge then the servant , sith in the cafe alledged , the servant may trade under the freeman , as well as the childe may ? we suppose none will say this ; and therefore in this the comparison doth not suit the case in hand . the orders and priviledges of corporations are various , according to the tenour of their several charters ; but what the charter of the church is , we know , viz. that in gen. . it takes in children into the church with their parents , and doth not allow them to be put out , till censureable iniquity do appear . . if in some corporations one that is free-born do lose his priviledge when he becomes adult , if he do not then enter personally into the engagement , yet it is not certain that it is so in all . sure no such thing is said of paul , who yet pleads his priviledge of being a freeman of rome , because he was so born , without mention of any personal act of his own for attaining that priviledge , acts . and if paul , being free-born , did retain his freedome when adult , without any personal act of his own for that end , why may it not be so in respect of church-membership , though in all civil corporations it be not so ? it is evident , that the scripture speaks of the children of bond-servants , as bound a●so , and of the children of the f●er , as free also , without mention of any act of the children to procure that relation or state , in the one case or in the other , ●eu● . . , . and we see no reason but it may be so also in the visible church , that if the parent be a member , the childe is so also , and so continues , 〈◊〉 i. e be cut off , not losing his membership by the meer not performin● of what might fit him for full communion . . if it were so in all corporations , that a freemans childe doth lose his freedome when adult , if he do not then in his own person enter into the common engagement ; and if it were also so in the church , that a members childe should lose his membership when adult , if he do not then personally coven●nt , ( though this is more then we see proved ) yet if it were so , we see not how this can be prejudicial to the persons spoken of in this fifth proposition . for of them it is expresly said , that they do solemnly own the covenant before the church , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord , &c. and therefore though freedome in a corporation , and membership in the church , might be lost by not entring personally into the common engagement , and covenant ; yet , except we shall say it may be lost , though this personall engagement and entring be performed and done , except we shall say this , we cannot say that the membership of the persons in question is lost at all , but doth still continue , sith they are such as do thus personally engage and covenant . as for that text , rom. . . if thou be a breaker of the law , thy circumcision is made no circumcision , which is here alledged again : we refer the reader to what hath been said touching this text before in pag. . lastly , whereas the reverend author saith , those texts in rom. . . cor. . . gen. . . are not applicable to the adult persons in question , but onely to infants and children in minority . the answer is , that the synod doth not at all apply them to the adult persons in question , and therefore it is a great mistake so to think : but having said , that these persons are personall , immediate , and yet-continuing members , they do thence infer , that their children are therefore also members , in covenant , and holy , and consequently are the subjects of baptism ; which inference and consequence the reverend author we are perswaded will not deny , if the ground thereof be good , that the parents in question are members of the church , as the synod apprehends that they are . and therefore although the texts alledged be not applicable to the adult persons in question , yet if they be applicable to such infants and little children whose parents are personal , immediate , and yet-continuing members , they do then sufficiently serve the purpose for which they are here alledged by the synod . so much for defence of the sixth and last argument for confirming this fifth proposition . propos. . the sixth proposition of the synod , is this , such church-members who either by death , or some extraordinary providence , have been inevitably hindred from publick acting as aforesaid , yet having given the church cause in judgement of charity to look at them as so qualified , and such , as had they been called thereunto , would have so acted , their children are to be baptized . to this the reverend author answereth , that this proposition may not be granted , for it granteth the priviledge of church-membership to such as are not actually and regularly church-members . ans. and yet the proposition , in the very first words of it , doth expresly declare , that what church-priviledge is here mentioned , is not granted to such as are not church-members , but to such as are : such church-members , saith the synod , who , &c. their children are to be baptized . so that though church-priviledges may not be granted to such who are not church-members , yet to the persons here spoken of , the baptism of their children may be granted , without any such undue granting of church priviledges , sith the synod doth not say these persons are not church-members ▪ but doth expresly say they are . all that can be said against these persons , is , that they have not acted according to the fifth proposition : and yet it is said , they have been inevitably hindred therein , and have given the church cause in judgement of charity to look at them as willing to have so acted , and therefore having been church-members from their birth or minority , how can the applying of baptism to their children , be the granting of a church-priviledge to such as are not church-members ? if they had not been hindred from acting as in the fifth proposition , but had indeed so done , yet this is not the thing that would have made them members , they having been members afore ▪ and though they be now adult , yet it hath been proved afore in the fifth proposition , arg. . part. . that their membership doth still continue ; and therefore the granting of church-priviledges to such as are not church-members , may be yielded to be unwarrantable , without any prejudice to the persons here spoken of , or to what the synod here saith concerning them . and whereas the reverend author doth here lay down two inferences : . that an ordinary minister cannot orderly do an act of office to such as are not regular and actual members of the visible church ; but , if he do , it will be usurpation . . that the church may not receive into any priviledge of church-communion , such as are not actually in publick church-order . these may both be granted , and yet what the synod here saith not be at all infringed thereby . for , considering that the persons spoken of were church-members long ago , and have never since been cut off or cast out from that relation , nor deserve any such matter , but do still continue therein , as was shewed in the fifth proposition , therefore we cannot see how it can be any usurpation in the minister to do acts of his office towards them , nor unlawful in the church to receive them to such a priviledge of church-communion as is spoken of ; nay rather the persons being and still continuing members , the performance of the thing in question may seem to be so far from being usurpation , as that the neglect thereof may be counted an unwarrantable omission or transgression . the first reason of the synod for confirming this proposition , is , because the main foundation of the right of the childe to priviledge remains , viz. gods institution , and the force of his covenant carrying it to the generations of such as are keepers of the covenant , i. e. not visibly breakers of it , &c. whereunto the answer of the reverend author is , that the parents of the children in question are visibly breakers of the covenant , which was sealed to them by baptism in their infancy , which obliged them to covenant personally for themselves and theirs , &c. p. , . ans. but is this certain , that the parents in question are visibly breakers of the covenant ? sure this , if it be affirmed , had need to be soundly cleared . for either they be such as do personally own the covenant , being qualified with knowledge and blameless life , &c. as in the fifth proposition , or else if they have not so acted , they have been inevitably hindred therein , as is said in the sixth proposition : and is it reasonable , that for all this they must be counted visibly breakers of the covenant ? are they such breakers of it , who do publickly own it , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord , being not culpable for any contrary practice in their conversation ? or are they such breakers of it , who if they have not publickly acted as aforesaid , the reason hath been , because they have been inevitably hindred ? we cannot see that rule or reason will allow or give warrant for such apprehensions . put case a person who was born a church-member , and hath been sound in judgement , and unblameable and commendable in his conversation all his dayes , but hath been , like ioseph , sold for a slave , and kept in bondage , suppose to the turks , or others for many a year : suppose also that after a time he be restored to his liberty , and thereupon do return homeward with his childe or children born to him in his exile and bondage , intending to present himself and his children to the lord in the church where he was born , but before he reach home , he dieth by the way ; this man is inevitably hindred from entring into covenant personally , though willing to have done it , and fit for it : but will any reason or charity permit to count this man a visible breaker of the covenant , because he did not personally enter thereinto ? we suppose this cannot be said , he being inevitably hindred from so acting . why then should the parents in question be judged to be visibly covenant-breakers for not entring into covenant personally , when it is expresly said they have herein been inevitably hindred , though willing to have done it , if there had been opportunity ? for our parts , we dare not judge them to be visibly covenant-breakers , as not seeing any ground or warrant so to do . the second reason of the synod for confirming this sixth proposition , is , because the parents not doing what is required in the fifth proposition , is through want of opportunity , which is not to be imputed as their guilt , so as to be a barre to the childes priviledge . now what saith the reverend author unto this ? doth he deny that it is want of opportunity that hinders the parents from doing what is required in the fifth proposition ? no we do not see that he denieth this at all ? doth he then say , that though want of opportunity hindred , yet for all this want of opportunity , the not doing , though through ●hat want of opportunity , is nevertheless a barre to the childes priviledge ? not so neither ; we do not finde that he so saith , any more then the former : and therefore what was said in the former reason about being inevitably hindred , may be applied to this particular for want of opportunity , viz. that such not doing what is mentioned in the fifth proposition , can be no barre to the childes priviledge . but if the reverend author saith nothing touching this want of opportunity , which is the main thing which is mentioned by the synod in this their second reason , what then doth he say in his answer to this reason ? that which he first saith , is , that it hath been already proved in his examining the fifth proposition , that more is required to fit one that is adult for church-membership , then is there expressed , viz. faith in christ made visible to the church , without which they are not regularly church-members . ans. but the question here is not , whether more be required to membership then is expressd in that proposition ; but , whether want of opportunity in parents to do what is there expressed , be a just barre to the childes priviledge . it is evident that this is the question here in hand , whereto the answer of the synod is negative , that this want of opportunity is not a just barre . but whether it be ● just barre , or be not , the reverend author saith nothing at all to that , but speaks to another thing , that more is required to church-membership then that proposition doth express : so that the thing in question seems not to be touched . yet let us a little consider of this other whereto he leads us , and return back with him to the fifth proposition . concerning which , first , here seems to be a manifest mistake concerning the scope of that fifth proposition , which is not at all as is here intimated , whether what is there expressed be enough to fit one that is adult for church-membership ; but the scope of it is plainly this , to shew , that such church-members as were admitted in minority , if they be qualified as is there expressed , may have their children baptized : but for fitness for membership , that proposition doth not discuss that point at all , but expresly speaks of such as are members already , and were admitted long ago , even in their minority . as for that which is here said concerning his examining that fifth proposition , we referre the reader to what hath been formerly there said in defence of that proposition . further , the reverend author saith , that baptism administred by ordinary officers to such as are out of church-order , is profaned ; as circumcision was by the shechemites , and would have been by the ishmaelites and edomites , if it had been administred to their children , when their parents were not j●yned to the church , or abode not in it in the families of abraham , isaac and jacob. ans. still this makes nothing against administring baptism to the children spoken of in this fifth and sixth propos. except it could be proved that their parents are not in church-order . for the synod thinks , that as they were admitted into church-membership in their minority , so they still continue therein ; and the contrary we have not yet seen proved . as for the shechemites , &c. circumcision might be profaned when administred to them , and yet baptism not so , when administred to the children in question . for , if the former were not in the church , yet these are : and whereas the former were vile and vicious in their lives , these other are farre from any such thing ; and therefore there is no comparison between the former , and these spoken of , but a vast difference . and we may adde further , that as there is difference between those shechemites and the rest , and the persons spoken of , both in respect of church-relation and conversation ; so in respect of this latter , these are farre better then sundry that abode in the family of iacob , to whom he will not deny but circumcision was lawfully administred . we may instance in simeon and levi , who committed that odious cruelty and blood-shedding , for which their father laid such a curse upon them a little afore his death , gen. . and if circumcision was lawfully administred to the children of these , they abiding in the family of jacob , how can baptism lawfully be denied to the children in question , or be said to be profaned when administred to them , sith they are children of parents who were once in the church of god , and were never cast out , nor deserving any such thing , but do still continue therein , and for life and conversation are farre from any such scandal and crime as was found in the sons of iacob aforesaid . one end of baptism now ( as it was of circumcision then ) is , to seal church-communion , cor. . . and is a testimony of the admission of the party baptized into the family of god , the father , son , and holy spirit , &c. ans. this is no just ground of denying baptism to the children in question , except it could be proved that neither they nor their parents are in the church of god , nor of his family , which yet we have not seen proved . the regular and lawfull use of baptism now ( as of circumcision of old ) presupposeth both gods promise , and his faith ( viz. faith for iustification with abraham ) who is to use it , either upon himself , or upon his infant . to use it , being not so qualified visibly , is it not a treacherous usurping of the great seal of the king of heaven and earth ? ans. neither doth this make against the baptism of the children in question ; forasmuch as their parents and they are under the promise of god , i will be a god to thee , and to thy seed in their generations : and the parents being qualified as in the fifth proposition , cannot be denied to have faith visibly , as was shewed by the synod in their arguments for confirming that proposition , and in this defence formerly . sure it is , these parents may as well be thought to have faith visibly , as the sons of iacob afore-mentioned , and as many in the church at corinth , of whom it is said , that they were culpable for carnall dissentions , going to law , fornication , vncleannesses , and not repenting thereof , cor. . & . & . and cor. . and yet being in the church , and professing christianity , we suppose the reverend author will not deny but their children might be baptized , and the children of iacobs sons circumcised , and that this in them was no treacherous usurping of the seal of the king of heaven and earth ; and therefore much less can such a thing be imputed to the persons qualified as in the fifth proposition , though the seal of baptism be administred to their children . for it is evident , these persons are farre from such offensiveness as was in those corinthians , and in reuben , simeon and levi , but are much more innocent , yea commendable . so much for defence of the second reason of the synod for confirming this sixth proposition , against what the reverend author , in his answer thereto , saith in his digression , and turning back to the proposition foregoing . the third reason of the synod for this sixth proposition , is , because god accepteth that as done in his service , to which there was a manifest desire and endeavour , albeit the acting of it were hindred ; as in david to build the temple , kings . in abraham to sacrifice his son , heb. . . and in that of alms , cor. . . as in such as are said to be martyrs in voto , and baptized in voto , because there was no want of desire that way , though their desire was not actually accomplished . to which the answer of the reverend author is , that this may hold in private service , so that there god accepts the will for the deed , when the acting of it is hindred ; but in publick service , he doth not accept of that as done , which is not done , so farre as to bring them into publick state and order , whatever their desires and endeavours have been . and he instanceth in one that desireth to be a minister , and yet may not do the acts of that office , afore he be in office ; and in such as desire to joyn to the church , but may not be received to the seals afore they be so joyned . whereto the answer is , that what is here said is insufficient , as being not suitable to the case in hand , which is not concerning such as are out of church-state and order , as if desires after that state were enough to bring them into it , though their actual entring were hindred . for it is evident , that the synod speaks not of such , but of such as are church-members already , onely have been inevitably hindred from such actings as are mentioned in the fifth proposition ; which actings are not at all spoken of for attaining church-membership , for that state the synod accounts that they have attained already : but the actings mentioned are clearly spoken of for another purpose , viz. for the more orderly , clear , and edifying manner of administration of baptism to their children ; themselves , though being in the state and order of church-members , having not yet been received to the lords supper . it is evident , that the synod speaks of such persons , and of actings for such an end , viz. of persons already in church-estate , and acting for the end aforesaid ; and here in this sixth proposition of obtaining that end , though their actings , as aforesaid , have been inevitably hindred . whereas the reverend author speaks of such as are not in church-state and order at all , though they do desire it ; and of them he saith , that these desires are not sufficient for their admission unto church-priviledges , when their actual entring into church-state is hindred : between which , and those spoken of by the synod , there is great difference ; so that if what he faith were granted , yet what is delivered by the synod is nothing hindred thereby : but though desire of office , or of church-estate , be not sufficient for doing the duties of the one , or obtaining the priviledges of the other , when actual entring into that office and state is hindred ; yet when such as are in church-estate already , do desire to act as in the fifth proposition , but are inevitably hindred from so acting , what should hinder but they may have their children baptized , as if they had so acted indeed ? and why may not the instances of gods accepting of abrahams offering his son , of davids building the temple , and the other mentioned by the synod , be sufficient proofs hereof ? we see nothing to the contrary but they may . whereto may be added that in chron. . where the people that prepared their hearts to seek god , are accepted of god in the passeover , though they were not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary : yet whatever it was that hindred their cleansing , their preparing their hearts did imply that they did desire it , and hereupon at the prayer of hezekiah they are accepted . and in sam. . when two hundred of davids men were by faintness hindred that they could not go over the brook besor , as he and others did , yet he will not yield but that they shall have part of the spoil , as well as others that went down to the battell ; considering that it was not want of will , but want of ability that hindred their acting as others did : and he , as he was in other things , a man after gods own heart , even so he was in this ; and they that would not have had the will of these two hundred accepted , when their deed was so inevitably hindred , are called wicked men , and men of belial . by all which the argument of the synod is further confirmed and cleared , when they say in this their third reason , that god accepts that as done in his service , to which there was a manifest desire and endeavour , albeit the acting of it were hindred . and , if god accept those as martyrs who are such onely in voto , as the reverend author seemeth to acknowledge , pag. why may not the like be said of those who are onely baptized in voto ? we see no reason but that if in the one case god accept them as martyrs , he doth also in the other as persons baptize● . and whereas he saith , to be baptized in voto , will nothing advantage any , as to church-fellowship , because de occultis non judicat ecclesia , and things are not manifested to the church otherwise then by congruous actings . the answer is , . that the thing here spoken of by the synod , is not at all of receiving into church-fellowship , as the reverend author carries it , but of baptizing the children of such as are in church-estate already , and have been so even from their minority . . nor is the desire they speak of so hidden and unknown , that the church cannot judge of it , but so manifest , that they have given the church cause in the judgement of charity to look at them as so qualified , as is said , and that had they been called thereto , they would have so acted . so that if it were true , that men could not be received into church-fellowship by meer desire of such state , when that desire is secret , and not manifest to the church ; yet men that are in church-estate already may have their children baptized when their desires to act , as is mentioned , are sufficiently known to the church , though their acting hath been inevi●ably hindred . for these cases do apparently differ ; so that what the synod saith in the one , is not overthrown by what the reverend author saith in th● other . . it is conceived by some , that those who of the ancients are said to be baptized in voto , were so spoken of , because they were martyred before they could actually receive baptism , and yet that their children were after the death of the parents actually baptized and accounted of the church : which if so , doth testifie , that they counted it a great matter to be baptized in voto , sith in such case they would actually apply baptism to the children , when the parents had not received it actually , but onely in voto , or in desire . and how much more may baptism be applyed to the children in question , whose parents are not onely baptized actually , and not in d●sire onely , but have been actually members of the church even from their birth or minority ? onely they have not acted as in the fifth proposition , but have been inevitably hindred therein , though they have been known to the church to desire so to have acted . fourthly , saith the synod , the termes of the proposition import that in charity , that is here done interpretatively , which is mentioned to be done in the fifth proposition expresly . the reverend author answereth , it s an unwarrantable charity that makes such an interpretation , for it is without warrant of any rule in scripture , or in good reason . ans. but is this certain , that neither rule in scripture , nor good reason , will give warrant for such charity as is mentioned ? if men have been by death , or some extraordinary providence , inevitably hindred from so acting as in the fifth proposition , and yet have given the church cause to look at them as such as would have so acted , if they had been thereunto called , and not inevitably hindred , is there yet for all this no warrant in scripture or good reason for such charity as is spoken of ? for our parts , when god almighty accepts the will for the deed , when the parties inability hinders from doing so much as he would , cor. . . and when scripture tells us , that charity thinketh not evil , but believeth all things , hopeth all things , &c. cor. . , . we cannot but think it better to retain and exercise such charity as is here spoken of , then to be driven or depart from it , as if no rule of scripture or good reason would warrant it . if that which is mentioned to be done in the fifth proposition expresly , is here done interpretatively , both being put together , will not avail to put the parent regularly into church-fellowship in any sense , and to give the infant a right to baptism thereby . ans. for putting into church-fellowship , the things here mentioned by the synod are not by them alledged for that end ; and therefore if this that is said by the reverend author were granted , the doctrine of the synod is not at all weakned thereby : but if the things mentioned be sufficient for the baptizing of the children of parents who are in church-fellowship already , the purpose of the synod is sufficiently gained . but why do not the things mentioned avail to put the parent into church-fellowship ? the reason rendred , is , because by christs ordinance onely adult persons , who have true faith and holiness , are adult members of the invisible church ; and the same persons making profession thereof outwardly in the order by him appointed , may be members of the visible church , and they onely can give their infant-seed a right unto baptism . ans. and is this certain and clear , that onely they who have true faith and holiness , and so are members of the invisible church , may be members of the visible church , and so their infant-seed have right to baptism ? if this were so , we may question whether it can be lawful for ministers , or any men , to dispense baptism to any persons at all : and the reason is , because they cannot certainly know who have such true faith and holiness , and so are church-members . for what the reverend author said a little before in pag. . that though god search and know the heart , yet the church doth not , de occultis non judicat ecclesia ; this we believe to be very true : and therefore if this hold , that none may be members of the visible church , and give right to their seed unto baptism , but onely they who have true faith and holiness , and so are members of the church invisible ; we say , if this hold , how can we know who are to the baptized , sith none can certainly know but god onely , whether men have this true faith and holiness in their hearts and souls ? therefore we think it more safe to say , that where there is a profession of true faith and holiness , and nothing contrary thereto appearing , whereby that profession can be disproved , such persons may be members of the visible church , and so have baptism for their children , whether they be of the invisible church , or no. and if the persons described in the fifth proposition be tried by this rule , we cannot see but as they were in church-fellowship from their minority , so they still continue therein , and so may have their children baptized , in as much as now they make a good profession before many witnesses , even the whole church , and do no way contradict their profession by any scandalous practice in their lives . and therefore , though that be true which the reverend author here saith , pag. . that without faith it is impossible to please god , and that therefore there must be true faith in them whom he priviledgeth to baptize their infants : that is , as we understand him , whom he priviledgeth to present their infants to baptism ; yet for all this it may be lawful enough to administer baptism to the children of parents qualified as in the fifth and sixth propos. and they that do administer , may have faith to please god therein , because of the church-relation and good profession of the parents , though the parents cannot please god in presenting their children to that ordinance , if themselves be destitute of the grace of faith : yet this we must still say , that for any that are so qualified as is said , we see no scripture-rule or reason that will warrant us to judge them so destitute . so much for defence of the sixth proposition . propos. . the members of orthodox churches , being sound in the faith , and not scandalous in life , and presenting due testimony thereof , these occasionally coming from one church to another , may have their children baptized in the church whither they come , by vertue of communion of churches ; but if they remove their habitation , they ought orderly to covenant and subject themselves to the government of christ in his church where they settle their abode , and so their children to be baptized . in being the churches duly to receive such unto communion , so far as they are regularly fit fo● the same . for confirming of this proposition in both the parts or branches of it , the synod giveth sundry reasons , whereto the reverend author saith nothing in the particulars , but in general , that he locketh at the regular communion of approved churches as an ordinance of christ : but further then so he saith nothing , either by objection against the proposition , or by consent unto it ? but all he saith is by way of propounding quaeri●s , to the number of half a score , or more ; and then concludes , that when these and the like questions are clearly answered , he shall then understand the true and full sense of this proposition , and what to say to it . but when the synod shall come together to answer these questions , whether ever or never , we do not know , nor do see any great probability of such a thing ; and therefore no more being here said against this proposition , we may conclude that it yet stands firm and good . and , as he concludes , that thus much may suffice , for the present , for reply to the synods answer to the first question ; so may we conclude , that thus much may suffice , for the present , for defence of the synods answer against what he saith to the contrary in his reply . concerning the reverend author's discourse upon the second question touching consociation of churches , we shall not trouble the reader with any large reply : and we hope it needeth nor , because there appeared no dissent or dissatisfaction in the synod about that matter . our brethren that dissented in the former question , readily and fully concurred in this , as themselves declare in antisynod●li● , pag. . besides , part of the reverend author's exceptions referring to the platform of discipline , concluded on with great unanimity in the synod held at cambridge , anno . ( sundry principal members whereof , as mr. cotton , shepard , rogers , norton , &c. are now at rest with god ) we shall not now after so many years , wherein we heard of no opposition , make that a subject of debate . but if the reader please to take along with him these three or four considerations , they may serve to take off what is here objected against us by the reverend author . . that we never said nor thought , that there should be a withdrawing from other churches upon differences , errours or offences of an inferiour and dubious nature , yea though continued in . we are farre enough from hastiness or harshness in that matter , being professed adversaries to a spirit of sinfull and rigid separation : we hope there is no word in the synods conclusions that savoureth thereof , if candidly interpreted . and for withdrawing from brethren because of dissent from what is here held forth by this synod , both our practice and our profession in the preface to that book , do sufficiently shew us to be farre from it . this may answer what is said this way in pag. , , , . . that we account not consociation of churches to be another thing th●n communion of churches , but onely an agreement to practise that communion , as is expresly said in propos. th & th . and therefore we understand not why the reverend author should so often praise communion of churches , as pag. ▪ , , . and yet dispraise and disl●ke consociation . is regular communion so good and excellent , and can it be hurtful for churches to agree and consent to practise it ? neither do we mean by that agreement , a vow ( as is suggested pag. , . ) or a formall covenant in a strict sense ( though mr. cotton doth not refuse to call it a covenant , in keyes , p. . . ) but onely a declared consent ( as is expressed propos. . ) of each church to walk in regular communion with their neighbour-churches . and if the reverend author doth approve of the acts of communion here set down for the substance of them , as it seemeth he doth by what he saith pag. . why should it be thought a dangerous matter to agree thereunto for the substance thereof ? we have indeed found in our experience much good and benefit by communion of churches , as the reverend author acknowledgeth , pag. , . and his acknowledgement thereof we gladly accept ; but we have also found , that the want of ready agreement timously to attend and exert the acts of communion , hath hazarded the peace and well-being of sundry churches , and exposed them to great troubles . we do not desire by our proposed consociation , to adde any thing to the communion of churches , but onely a vigorous and timous exercise thereof . . that we expresly disclaim the subjecting of a church unto any other ecclesiasticall iurisdiction whatsoever , propos. . and therefore it is strange that the reverend author should put that upon the consociation by us intended , that it is a subjecting of churches under classicall iurisdiction , pag. . it is not the bare consent , or mutual agreement of churches , but the nature of the thing consented to , as , viz. the power they agree to be stated under , that makes it a classical combination , or puts those churches under a classical iurisdiction . what though the voluntary combination , mentioned by by mr. rutherfurd , in his sense doth inferre a classical membership and iurisdiction ? surely it doth not follow that ours does so , when as we expresly disclaim it . but is it true , that where-ever there is a voluntary combination of churches , they become a classical or presbyterian church , and the members by conse●ting thereto , become members of a classical church , and under the power of it , so as to be excommunicated by it , &c. as is said pag. ? what then shall be thought of that known position of dr. ames , medal . lib. . cap. . thes. . which is expresly cited and approved by the reverend author in his reply to paget , pag. , ? surely it is no new thing with congregational-men , but their professed doctrine , with one consent to own some kinde of combination and consociation of churches ; but withall we constantly afirm with dr. ames in the same place , that this combination doth neither constitute any new form of a church , nor ought it to take away , or in any measure to diminish that liberty and power which christ hath left to his churches , but onely it serves to direct and promote the same . . let the reader please to peruse and consider the reverend author's eleventh and twelfth premised position , pag. , , . and compare them with what the synod hath published touching consociation of churches , and we suppose he will finde such an agreement between them , as that he will wonder ( as we do ) to see the reverend author appearing as an antagonist in this matter . it seems strange , that brethren should be willing to contend both where they do differ , and where they do not . also it may be considered , how many reflexions here are upon us , ( as if we would cast a snare upon churches , by straitning them in the use and exercise of their church-power within themselves in re propria ; as if we would absolutely binde churches not to administer censures within themselves , &c. ) for which nothing published by the synod did give any just occasion . and whereas mr. cotton is represented as being against our consociation , pag. . . let his printed words be viewed in the keyes , pag. — . his solemn speeches of it to sundry be remembred , and his draught of it a little before his death be considered , and the reader will see whether he can joyn in belief with the reverend author about that matter . the lord guide us by his spirit into all truth , and help us to follow the truth in love. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e it is no very good signe of truth , when there are many curious , nice , & dark distinctions used to defend a thing 〈…〉 enerv. tom. . l. . cap. quest ult . and his fresh suit , par . . pag. , , — . vid. rivet . in genes . . . ames . medul . lib. . cap. . thes. . (e) his words are these : any such notorious offender ( having named athiests , mockers of religion , witches , idolaters , papists ) may have the essence and being of a member of the church , as visit ●e , to wit , in this sense , a corrupt and rotten member , fit to be cut off . a member of the visible church ( though formerly an in offensive professor of the faith ) may afterwards fall away into any of these notorious scandals , and yet for a while still retain the essence and being of a member of the church as visi●le , to wit , till the church have orderly proceeded against him ; otherwi●e the church should want power to proceed to the excommunication of such a notorious delinquent . for what hath the church to do to judge men without ? cor. . . but such within the church are to be cast out , cor. . . (a) eadem eeclesia & pies habet secum●●● forma ● interat●● ad se pertinentes , & impies atque hypocritas se undùm extenam adnascentes . jun. animad . in bellarm . p. . (b) it might afford parker an argument as to ( manifestarii peccatores ) the notoriously wicked that they should not be tolerated in the church , but ( as excrementiti●us things ) be purged out by the vigorous , use of discipline , as he there discourses : but it touches not our question . ●oll . enerv. tom . . lib. . cap. . (h) calvin opuscul pag. . cartwright catech . pag. . (k) disciplina subjacent omn●s in vnitate frae trum 〈◊〉 , oblajante us●●al senem . rat. disciplin . pag. . (l) contradictio caret simpliciter omni medio . keck . log. pag. . hookers survey , pag. . catabaptistae decent non posse excommunicationem in ecclesiam reduci , nisi ij baptizentur qui scientes jugo christi collum submittant . bucer in joh. fol ● . see mr. cotton expresly holding forth excommunication to be applicable to such as the children in question , in holiness of church-members . pag. . (a) medul . lib. . cap. . thes. . and see cap. . thes. , , , , , . and m. shepards late printed letter , pag. , . (c) catech. explic . in ●uast . . pag. . (a) ames medul . lib. . cap. . thes. . (c) the scripture order is to ●ake the circumcising of the child part of the parents fitness for 〈◊〉 passover , and for admission ●ereunto [ let all his males be ●●●cumcised , and then let him come 〈◊〉 and keep it ] exod. . . ra●●er then to make his admission to 〈◊〉 passover a pre-requisite to 〈◊〉 childes circumcision . gerhard . de sacra c●na , p. . (b) see ratio disciplina fratrum bobem . in hist. praemissa , p. — ● . & — ● , , . opuscul . pag. . syntag. theolog. pag. . with pag , , . (a) lec . com. de can● dom. quaest . . pag. . (b) 〈◊〉 . p●g . ● & vid. quaest. . pag. . (c) de baptismo quaest. & . pag , . see the leyden divines , synops. dis●ut . . thes. . & disput. . thes. , . co●p●red with d●sput . . thes. . (d) quaest. & resp. ●● sa●ramentis , quaest. , . (e) ibid. quaest. ● . syntag. lib. . cap. . with cap. . (e) vid. dutch annot. on cor. . . (f) de sacra 〈◊〉 , pag ● . (g) de baptism● pag. , . (h) explicat . catech . in quaest . . pag. , (i) in quaest . . pag. . (k) so much parkers learned labours among others shew , and our congregational brethren in england met at the savoy , in their preface do well express : and see beverly examen hoornb . pag. . (b) consider whether it be not a greater detracting from the sacredness of baptism , when we make but a light matter of that membership and covenant that was sealed therein . if men have been once admitted to the lords supper , they count their membership stands firm & good ( through all decayes and degeneracies ) until excommunicate . but the solemn covenant & engagement between god and the baptized , that was ratified in holy baptism , wears away , and is a kinde of forgotten thing by that time they become adult . to be difficult in admissions unto baptism , and yet easie in letting go the benefit of baptism ( or the membership thereby sealed ) and to alledge the sacredness of the ordinance for the former , and forget in the latter , seem not well to cohere . 〈…〉 lib. . ● . p. ● . examen h●ornb . pag. . (k) it is not the qualifications of one in full communion , but his membership that gives his childe right to baptism ; for suppose he decay in qualification , and grow formal and loose , yet while he continues a member uncensured , he hath his childe baptized as well as the best in the church . acts . , , , . & . ● , , , . chemnit . in mat. . . (a) holin . of church-members , pag. . b●nè autē 〈◊〉 nos in genere , de ii● omnibus qui ex fidelibus noscuntur , & f●e deris formula indefinita jub●● , & cha●ita● monet bez quast . de sacram. ●● . . (a) de polit. eccles. lib. . pag. , . (b) de polit. eccl. lib. . cap. . & lib. . pag. . protestat . before treat . of the cross. (c) de polit. lib. . pag. . (d) ibid. lib. . cap. . & . & lib. . pag. . and of the cross , cap. . sect . . holiness of church-members , pag . (b) medul . lib. . cap. . thes. (c) magdeb . cent. . pag. . (d) sicut ergo tempere illius sacramenti , de c●●cumcisō qui nasceretur circumcide●dus ●ait ; sic nune de baptizato qui n●tus fuerit , baptizandus est . august . tom . . cont . pelag. lib. . cap. . see also tom. . epist. . ad bonifacium ; & epist. . ad auxilium . and de grat. & lib. arbitr . cap. . (e) ame● medul . lib. . cap. . ●hes . ● . b) grounds and ends of infant-baptism , p. , . prov. , . psa. . . notes for div a -e * see essay first , pag. ▪ . in ●xam . of prop. . the presbyterian and independent visible churches in new-england and else-where brought to the test, and examined according to the doctrin of holy scriptures ... : more particulary directed to those in new-england, and more generally to those in old england, scotland, ireland, &c. : with a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston and new-england, to repent, &c. : and two letters to the preachers in boston, and an answer to the gross abuses, lies and slanders of increase mather and nath. morton, &c. / by george keith. keith, george, ?- . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing k estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the presbyterian and independent visible churches in new-england and else-where brought to the test, and examined according to the doctrin of holy scriptures ... : more particulary directed to those in new-england, and more generally to those in old england, scotland, ireland, &c. : with a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston and new-england, to repent, &c. : and two letters to the preachers in boston, and an answer to the gross abuses, lies and slanders of increase mather and nath. morton, &c. / by george keith. keith, george, ?- . [ ], p. printed bor thomas northcott ..., london : . reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng mather, increase, - . -- remarkable providences illustrative of the earlier days of american colonisation. morton, nathaniel, - . -- new-englands memoriall. presbyterian church -- controversial literature. society of friends -- controversial literature. congregational churches -- controversial literature. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - ali jakobson sampled and proofread - ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion rev. . . thou hast tryed them , which say , they are apostles , and are not , and hast found them liars . rev. . . behold , i will make them of the synagogue of satan , ( which say , they are jews , and are not , but do lie ; ) behold , i will make them to come and worship before thy feet , and to know , that i have loved thee . rev. . , , . and i heard another voice from heaven , saying , come out of her my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues ; for her sins have reached unto heaven , and god hath remembred her iniquities . reward her , even as she rewarded you , and double unto her double , according to her works ; in the cup which she hath filled , fill to her double . the presbyterian and independent visible churches in new-england and else-where , brought to the test , and examined according to the doctrin of the holy scriptures , in their doctrin , ministry , worship , constitution , government , sacraments , and sabbath day . more particulary directed to those in new-england , and more generally to those in old-england , scotland , ireland , &c. with a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston and new-england , to repent ; &c. and two letters to the preachers in boston ; and an answer to the gross abuses , lies and slanders of increase mather and nath. morton , &c. by george keith . london : printed for thomas northcott , in george-yard in lombard-street , . a friendly epistle to these people called presbyterians and independents . friends , in true love and good will i have writ the following treatise unto you , hoping it may find entertainment with some among you , to give it the reading , and seriously to consider what you read ; and my earnest exhortation and advice is unto you , that in all your reading , whether in this or any other book , ye turn your minds to that light of christ within you , wherewith he hath enlightned you , and all men , as the holy scriptures declare ; and that ye may believe in christ , the light , and life , in you , who is the wisdom and power of god , and who was in all the holy prophets and apostles , and whose spirit that was in them that gave forth the holy scriptures , both of the old and new testament ; and the same spirit only doth , and only can give to all readers of the holy scripture , a true and right understanding of them , and of all other books , that treat of doctrins and matters of religion , whether they have proceeded from a measure of the same holy spirit : and if ye believe in christ the light , the life , the wisdom and power of god in you , and joyn your minds to his inward divine illumination , he will anoynt the eyes of your understanding , with his spiritual eye-salve , and then your eyes shall be opened to see and understand what ye read ; and through your faith in him he will also open and circumcise your inward ears , and cause you still more and more to be acquainted with his living voice and words in you , all which are spirit and life ; and this will give you a spiritual savour and taste , whereby ye shall be able to try and judge of things that differ , whether men , or books , whether spirits , or doctrins , what are of god , and what are not of him ; for although the scriptures are the best outward test or touchstone , or rule whereby to try all doctrins of men , or books , yet it is the holy spirit of christ , and his light inwardly shining and enlightning the dark hearts and vnderstandings of men , that gives them ability rightly to understand the scriptures , otherwise the scriptures are as a sealed book , both to the learned and unlearned : for though the jews had the scriptures of the old testament , which prophecied of christ , and of the time and manner of his coming , and how he was to suffer death for the sins of men , and to rise again and ascend into glory , yet none of them had that understanding , but such only as were turned to his divine illumination in their hearts , and were acquainted with his holy spirit , light and life in them . and the like grave and wholsom advice i recommend unto you , which a certain ancient christian gave unto justin martyr , before his conversion to the christian faith , to wit , that he should diligently read and search the holy scriptures , which should give him more content than all heathen authors ; but withal , that he should mind the gate , the light , by which only he could enter into the true understanding and knowledge of them . the which passage the said justin relateth in his works , and john fox hath it also in his martyrology taken out of him . and though in this treatise i have affirmed and sufficiently demonstrated , that your visible churches are no true churches of christ , yet i do not say nor conclude , that none of you belong to christs true church in any true regard : but on the contrary , i have that true charity , faith and hope concerning a remnant among you , who have in the least measure true hungerings and thirstings after righteousness , and a great inward longing and panting of heart and soul after the lord jesus christ , to know him and enjoy him , more nearly than by all hear-say or report of him , and whose souls are sick of love for him , and feel your need and want of him , as the sick that need the physician , that ye do indeed , even all such of you , belong to christ , and are the real members of his body , which is his church ; for where any living desire is after christ , and where any true sense or feeling of the want and great need of him is raised in any soul , there is somewhat of the life of christ in that soul , and there is christ himself present , who hath begot it , and that soul is in some measure a living member of christ , and to such it will be glad tidings , to hear that christ is so near unto it , as really to be within it , even really and livingly present ; and where the least true measure of sincerity , tenderness , meekness , gentleness , humility , uprightness of heart and soul hath place in any , there is christ present in that soul , who hath already begun his good work in the same , and the beginning of his work is to quicken and make alive the soul unto him . and every soul that is thus quickned and made alive unto him , as it doth hold fast this beginning , and doth continue still hungering and thirsting after him , to know , and enjoy , and receive of his fulness more plentifully , doth really belong to him , and is in a state of salvation e'en so far ; and as it here abideth , it is impossible that it can perish . but yet tho such belong to christ , and to his church , it doth not follow , that the visible church , which they are outwardly , and by some outward form or practice joyned unto , is the true church of christ ; for they themselves distinguish of the church visible and invisible , and do affirm , that hypocrites are members of their visible church , but that only the true saints and children of god , belong to the invisible church . and again , tho such who have true desires , and true living breathings raised in them after the lord , may be said , as such , to belong to him , and be of his sheep , yet they are still but as scattered and driven from the true fold , and as wandering , for most part , upon the barren mountains , and the dry and desolate hills , seeking the living among the dead , until they come to be gathered into the true and living way of god , and of christ , so as to know , and be acquainted with the lord , and his inward leadings , rule and government in them , and to be able to distinguish his voice , and inward appearance in them , from that of a stranger , and to worship him in spirit and in truth , and serve him in the newness of the spirit , and in pure holy fear and love , as sons and children in his house : and this state ye are generally strangers unto , and therefore tho some of you may be allowed in true charity , to be the sheep of christ , yet ye are but scattered until ye are returned unto christ , the shepherd and bishop of your souls , and know him revealed in you , to lead , rule and guide you , and feed you with the living bread , and give you the living water to drink , which he himself is , inwardly revealed , and that ye be turned away from all false teachers and shepherds , which is the earnest breathing and cry of my soul unto god for you . g.k. heads or principles of christian doctrin . chap. i. concerning the holy scriptures . . the holy scriptures of the old and new testament being generally and worthily acknowledged by all christians , to be writ by divine inspiration , without any mixture of error , are a sufficient outward rule and standard , whereby to examin and try all doctrins of men . . they contain a full and intire declaration of all christian doctrin ; and therefore whatever doctrins or principles of christian religion men presume to teach , which they cannot prove and demonstrate from the holy scriptures , they lay no obligation upon any to believe them . . the scriptures are only sufficiently and savingly believed and understood by the inward illumination and revelation of the holy spirit , which is the same in kind to that which god gave to the saints of old. . although they contain a full and sufficient declaration of all christian doctrin , yet they do not contain the whole mind , will and counsel of god , as some say they do . because there are many things , wherein god doth reveal of his counsel to his children , which are not in scripture either expresly , or consequentially , altogether necessary to their peace and comfort ; as to instance in some particulars : first , it is a part of the counsel of god , for a christian to know his inward calling , and whether he be indeed one of god's called and chosen ones ; whether in favour with god , and justified and sanctified ? and though the scripture doth give infallible signs and marks of such an estate , yet no scripture , nor scripture-consequence can infallibly assure any man that he hath these marks ; but it is the spirit of god that only can and doth give them this assurance , rom. . . dly , all true preachers and ministers of christ ought to know the mind and will of god , whether they be called of god to the work of the ministry , which call is an inward call , that is altogether necessary to their faithful discharge of so great a work ; but this they cannot know simply by the scripture . dly , every true christian should know his inward call , to pray , or give thanks , or perform any religious duty or service unto god , as david said , when thou said'st , seek my face ; my heart answered , thy face , o lord i will seek ; hide not thy face from me , psal . . . again , thly , it is commonly granted , that it is a duty belonging to every christian , to enquire the mind and counsel of god in every weighty matter and concern of our life ; as if we be visited with any great affliction inward or outward , to enquire with job , shew me , o lord , why thou contendest with me . and as rebecca , when the twins strugled in her womb , enquired at the lord , and said , why am i thus ? and the lord answered her . also in the case of marriage , every true christian man and woman , ought to enquire and wait for god's counsel , with whom to be joyned in marriage , that they may know indeed the lord's joyning of them , and that they marry in the lord : but this cannot be known by any scripture , or consequence from scripture , but the spirit of the lord must reveal it , even the same that led abraham's servant to take a wise to his son isaac . and every christian should know the will and counsel of god in his outward vocation , that it is of god , and so abide therein , as the scripture saith , let every man abide in the calling wherein he is called of god. and as the servants of god in days past , in traveling and sojourning from place to place , received the counsel of god , so do these now that wait for it in uprightness of heart , as really as holy men did of old ; and as philip received the word of god , which he could not find in the scripture , either expresly or consequentially , when the spirit said unto him , joyn thy self to this chariot , when he was sent to preach christ to the eunuch ; and as peter was sent to cornelius , and ananias to saul , and many other the like instances ; and as james declareth , men ought not to be rash or hasty to say , to day , or to morrow we will go into such a city , &c. for that ye ought to say , if the lord will , james . , . now how can a man know what the lord willeth in such a case , unless it be given him by the spirit of the lord inwardly , to feel either a command or permission to do such a thing ? for whereas too many make the outward passages of providence their rule , as to say , if sickness , or some outward impediment hinder not ; they constitute that to be the will of god : and whereas many remove from one place to another , and divine providence doth not hinder them , and yet in that removal they have not had god's approbation , and it hath not had a blessing to follow it , but on the contrary ; for leaving their place , they have been exposed to sad temptations , and have fallen under them . and lastly , there are many precious living soliloquies and intercourses betwixt the lord and the souls of his dear children , while he answers the returns of their prayers in living testimonies , and words of his holy spirit ; which though they are agreeable to scripture , yet are not express scripture words , but are the real words and dictates of the holy ghost , speaking peace and consolation to them , beyond all utterance or demonstration of speech , and wonderfully quickning and strengthning them in the inward man , as we find in the psalms , and in the song of solomon , and other places of holy scripture ; for by the living word of god , as they come freshly and newly , or immediately from the mouth or spirit of god , the souls of god's children are quickned and kept alive , as christ said , the words that he did speak unto his disciples were spirit and life ; and man liveth not by bread alone , but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of god. and david waited for the coming of the word of god to quicken him , to wit , that god might speak unto him ; and he said , i will hear what the lord will speak , for he will speak peace to his saints , and to his people . so here is god's promise to all his saints and people to speak peace unto them ; and as he promised to his israel in hosea , chap. . i will allure or perswade her , and bring her into the wilderness , or a solitary place , and there i will speak comfortably unto her , or ( as the hebrew hath it ) i will speak to her heart . and this is an inward speech : and the scripture promises , when god is pleased by his spirit to apply them to the souls of his children , is as real and proper an inward voice and speaking of god unto them , as he spoke to the prophets of old . . and therefore the scripture doth not contain either all the word , or words of god , as some say , but many thousands of words of god have been livingly spoke and utter'd by the spirit of god , to the inward ears of his dear children , since the writing of the scripture , and daily are and will be to the end of the world. and as it was said in the apostles days , the word of the lord grew and multiplied , acts . and , . so ever since the apostles and writing of the scriptures , the word of god hath grown and multiplied , and still shall and must to the end of the world ; and yet no new doctrin or gospel to be preached , but the same which the prophets , and christ and the apostles have already preached . . and as christ and the apostles expounded the scriptures of the old testament by divine inspiration and revelation of the same spirit ; without propounding any new doctrin or object of faith unto people ; so why may it not be so now ? yea , it is so , that some at this day by the same spirit , do expound and open places of scripture both of the old and new testament , and yet bring no new doctrin : and it is a far better way to have such preachers and expounders , who open and expound the scriptures by the inspiration and revelation of the holy spirit , as the apostles did , than for men to presume to open and expound them without all new revelation or inspiration , and who plainly confess , they neither preach nor write by any infallible spirit . and such mens exposition , who declare they have no infallible spirit , can neither be the word or words of god , which are infallible , but only the fallible word and words of man , and human imaginations . . and as for the term [ word ] the greek of it being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i find it variously used and translated in the new testament , as first , to signifie christ , joh. . . dly , to signifie treatise , acts . . dly , communication , mat. . . thly , vtterance , cor. . . & cor. . . & ephes . . . & col. . . thly , word of talk or discourse , thes . . . thly , reason , pet. . . & acts . . thly , preaching or doctrin , cor. . . thly , account or business , as to have to do , heb. . . and thly , the hebrew word in the old testament is translated , order , psal . . . thly , matter , psal . . . thly , speech , psal . . . and thly , the same greek word is used by paul to signifie , the empty and dead preaching of false teachers , cor. . . and therefore whether the scriptures may be called or are called the word in scripture , rarely or improperly , is not the proper state of the question ; for it cannot be denyed , and is not denyed , but that rarely and improperly , the word is used to signifie scripture or scripture words , either written or spoken ; and sometimes the words of evil men are rendred by the same greek word in scripture , as ephes . . . and tim. . ● . but the true state of the question is , wheth●r first , the scripture doth contain all the word or words of god ? and this i justly deny , for the reasons already given ; and indeed as the word and words of god are compared in scripture ( deut. . . ) to the dew and rain that falleth upon the dry ground to refresh it , and make it fruitful ) and the drops of the dew and rain are so many that they cannot be numbred ) which god hath been pleased to speak to the souls of his people , and still doth , so nor can the words of god be numbred by men ; and therefore they are of a greater extent than all these set down in scripture , which may be numbred ; and also they are compared in scripture to bread that is eaten , as jeremiah said , cap. . . thy words were found , and i did eat them ; and as none can number the small grains of flower that make up a cake of loaf of bread , so none can number the words of god. secondly , whether the scriptures only , as they are outwardly written , or spoken by the mouths of natural men , or heard by the outward ears , or conceived only by the bare natural thoughts and understanding , be properly , and without all figure , the word or words of god ? i say , nay ; for the words of god are spiritual , and of an inward nature , as god himself is ; for the words of god are first , and properly , spoke to the mind and spirit of man , and the outward words , whether spoke or writ , are but the signs of them , as all outward words are but the signs of the inward thoughts of the mind , which are the words of the mind or heart of man within it self . thirdly , vvhether he who only talketh scripture words , and hath not the true sense of them , doth truly and properly speak the vvord of god ? and whether he that only heareth them from man , and hath not received the true sense of them , hath properly heard the vvord of god ? i say , nay ; for it is not the bare letter , without the sense , that is the word of god properly understood . nevertheless , the letter of the scripture in a figurative sense may be called the vvord , as the map of england is called england , moses his books are called moses , and isaiah his book is called his vision , and john his book is called his revelation . chap. ii. concerning new divine revelations and inspirations . . the places of scripture , which they commonly bring against all new divine revelations and inspirations of the spirit of god , prove no such thing , as will easily appear to any that are impartial and unbyassed in their understanding , if they will but read and consider them , which places are these following , as they are alledged and quoted by them called the assembly of divines at vvestminster , in their confession of faith , cap. . sect . . prov. . , , . isa . . , . which places , if they prove now , that all new revelation is ceased , they do as much prove , that it ceased in the days of christ and the apostles , yea , in the days of the prophets that did succed them . is it not admirable blindness that these men did not see how impertinent these citations are ? and as for all the places of the new testament cited by them , as luke . . rom. . . mat. . , , . tim. . . heb. . , . pet. . . they do no more prove what these intend than the former ; for by their own confession , divine revelation and inspiration continued after all these places of scripture were writ , for divers intire books of scripture were writ after them here alledged : and if they say , that all new revelation did cease , as soon as all these books of scripture were in being , then they must also affirm , that all new revelation did cease to divers of the apostles , long before they deceased , because divers of them , and particularly john survived after he wrote his book of the revelation . . it is most readily granted , that god in his infinite wisdom and goodness was pleased , that there should be oracles and testimonies of his truth and gospel committed to writing , according to which the doctrins and words of men , however so holy , that should come in after ages , should be tryed and examined ; for the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets ; but this doth not prove in any wise , all ceasing of prophecy , or divine revelation , or inspiration by the same spirit . the apostles doctrin and preaching was tried by the noble bereans , whether it was according to the scriptures of the old testament ; but it doth not therefore follow , that the apostle paul did not preach by divine revelation and inspiration . and both christ and the apostles proved their doctrin generally out of the scriptures of the prophets ; but that doth not argue that they did not preach by new divine revelation . . but for the further clearing of the matter , we are to distinguish betwixt new revelation of new doctrin , and new revelation of ancient doctrin . the apostles had a new revelation , yet not of any new doctrin , but the very same that christ and the prophets preached before them , and all agreed in the same doctrin for substance , and yet had their own peculiar visions and revelations , which were new to them , to wit , new , though not in kind or specie , yet in particular or individual unto them . and so it is , as to us , we plead not for any new revelation of any new doctrin , faith or gospel , differing from what christ , and the prophets , and apostles have taught before us , and is largely and fully declared in the holy scriptures ; but for a new revelation of the same doctrin , faith and gospel which was revealed unto them : for as the faith of the prophets and apostles is not enough to us , but we must also have the like precious faith with them , john . . and we must see with our spiritual eyes , and hear with our spiritual ears , and handle with our spiritual handling the word of life , as they did , so it must be newly revealed to us , and in us . . and if all new divine revelation and inspiration be ceased , then all spiritual seeing and hearing is ceased , and neither god nor christ is , or hath been heard or seen spiritually , as the saints did see and hear formerly , nay , not in the least degree , and all inward spiritual sensation and feeling is gone , and all use or exercise of spiritual series , which is sad tidings to poor souls . but if any grant that there is any true and real spiritual hearing , seeing , tasting , and other spiritual sensations of god , and divine things , they must also grant true divine revalation the same in kind and nature with what the saints had of old ; for what is the proper object of the inward hearing , and seeing , and tasting , and feeling ; is it not god and christ ? as david invited others saying , o taste and see that god is good . and as the spouse said in the song , i sate down under his shadow with great delight , and his fruit was sweet unto my taste ; his , left-hand is under my head , and his right hand doth embrace me ; he hath brought me to his banqueting house , &c. and again , the king hath brought me into his wine-cellar . and can these sweet and heavenly experiences be witnessed without divine revelation , or inspiration ? and whereas some say , it is revelation by the word and spirit going along together , but not by the spirit alone without the word . i answer , granting it to be so in a true sense ; for the prophets and apostles had both the word and the spirit going along together in their divine revelations , according to isa . . . and that did not hinder them to be real and proper in their kind . but that god hath limited and confined himself so , as never to give any inward enjoynment of himself to the souls of his dear children , by any inward sense , sight or hearing , but what is conveyed unto them always by means of scripture words , is a most extravagant presumption to affirm , without all scripture proof ; for besides that , the soul may hear god speaking other words to it inwardly , than express scripture words , though not contrary or disagreeing ; it oft falls out , that the inward and spiritual seeing , tasting and feeling may be enjoyed and witnessed , without all words composed of letters or syllables , even in a deep inward stillness and quietness , according to these words , be still , and know that i am god. and as the outward seeing , tasting , smelling and feeling may be used without the present use of the outward hearing , so may the inward and spiritual seeing , tasting , smelling and feeling be used at times and seasons , without the inward and spiritual hearing of any words formally composed of letters and syllables , or scripture words , or so much as inwardly thought or conceived , which men of spiritual experience , who have their spiritual senses cannot but readily grant . we find by common experience , that words fall short to give us a sufficient and satisfactory knowledge of outward and natural things ; and therefore we desire rather to see , taste and handle them , than to hear the best or most true report of them . we love rather to see a pleasant country , than to hear of it only ; and every good child loveth to see his parents , rather than to hear a report , or talk of them ; so every loving wife loveth rather to see her husband , and hear himself , and be imbraced by him , than to hear others tell of him : and the loving subject is more glad to see his prince , or king , of whom he hath received so many favours , and to hear himself , than to hear others tell of him ; and thus it is with every soul , that truly loveth god , they much rather desire to hear himself , and see him , than to hear others tell of him , as one well said , it is little to see christ in a book , but to see him , and hear him , and feel his most lovely embraces , as his children have witnessed , that is very precious . it is not the report , or discourse of bread , however so true and large , that can satisfie an hungry man , or the report of good drink that can satisfie a thirsty man ; but to taste and eat of bread , that only satisfieth him that is hungry , and to taste and drink of water , beer , wine , or any other refreshing liquor , only satisfieth the thirsty man : and so to eat of christ , and feed upon him who is the soul 's proper food and nourishment , doth , and only can satisfie and content the hungry soul , as christ said , john . . he that eateth me , shall live by me . and christ is not only the soul's meat , but its drink also ; and therefore david said , as the hart panteth after the water-brook , so panteth my soul after thee , o god ; my soul thirsteth for god , for the living god , psal . . , . and surely , this so near and inward enjoyment of god and christ cannot be without an inward and intimate , or immediate revelation of him . and if words fall short to give to men a sufficient and satisfactory knowledg of natural and outward things , how much more then to give a sufficient and satisfactory knowledg of god and chirst , and divine things , as his love , his life , his peace , and that inward comfort and consolation that is in his presence ? for the scripture saith , cor. . , . ear hath not heard , nor eye hath not seen , nor hath the heart of man conceived the good things that god hath prepared for them that love him , and wait for him : where we see all words fall short to discover these things ; but god hath revealed them to us ( said paul ) by his spirit . and this god did promise as a general priviledg to all his people , of all nations , even to bring them to his holy mountain , and to destroy the face of the covering spread over them , and make unto them a feast of fat things , full of marrow , and of wines upon the lees well refined : and what is this but the enjoyment of himself , seen and tasted by them ? and do not all true believers eat the same spiritual bread , and drink the same spiritual drink , the rock that followed israel of old ? which rock was christ ? and surely this is beyond all words or declaration , and according to this the joy of god's people is called a joy unspeakable , even such as words cannot express ; and the peace of god is said to pass vnderstanding , and the love of christ , that it passeth knowledg , because no words , either spoken or conceived by men , can give the knowledg of these so great and divine and profound mysteries , but only the spirit of god , that searcheth the deep things of god , can discover them . again , we find by common experience , that all outward teaching of men , presuppose certain principles of knowledg of natural things , which they profess to teach , which principles are partly known ( without men's teaching ) by the outward sense of them , and partly by inward notions of knowledg , innate in the minds of men ; and therefore it were altogether in vain , for a master of architecture or navigation , to teach a man these arts , who is altogether blind , and senseless , and stupid , and hath not any inward clearness of his natural judgment ; and even so it is , as to spiritural and divine things , all outward teaching of them doth pre-suppose some principles of knowledg of these very things , and some inward divine and spiritual sense of them , or at least some inward ground and capacity , whereby that divine sense may be excited in them . and therefore when paul preached to the athenians , that professed themselves ignorant of god , he preached him , acts . , , . near unto them , yea , so near , as the stock or root of a tree is unto the bud or off-spring that groweth upon it ; and this he proved from some of their own poets , who said of men , that they are god's off-spring ; and he told them plainly the way to seek him , and find him , was by feeling him ; so that he joyneth these three together , to wit , seeking , feeling and finding ; for as a man in a dark room , or having his eyes shut , being perswaded that the thing he desireth to have , is at hand , or near to him , doth grope , and feel after it , and by feeling , doth within a little time find it ; even thus did paul teach these ignorant athenians how they might find god , and how all men , however so ignorant , have a time or opportunity given them to find him , god having determined the times before-appointed , and bounds of habitation , wherein they may find him : and so from this inward ground , or principle of knowledg in these athenians , which they had before paul preached unto them , as a wise master-builder or teacher , he proceedeth to preach christ , and the resurrection , and eternal judgment unto them , as a good master or teacher of natural science beginneth with the first principles of knowledg , not to teach them , but presupposing them , and only calling the minds of the scholars to remember , or take notice of them , and then from these principles he proceedeth to teach them the mysteries of the science . . but whereas many who deny all new revelations of the spirit , yet grant the necessity of the inward illumination of the spirit of god , to give the saving knowledg and vnderstanding of god and divine things , as these who gave forth the westminster confession of faith , being an assembly made up of presbyterian and independent teachers , met at vvestminster about forty years ago ; see cap. . sect. ● . surely , if these men had been rightly acquainted with the inward illumination of the spirit of god , they would never have writ or given forth such non-sense and contradiction in the face of the world , as to grant the necessity of inward illumination , and at the same time , yea , in the same section or paragraph , and within a line or two , to deny all new revelation ; for indeed inward illumination is revelation , and inward revelation is illumination , the thing is one , though the names be distinct , as oft the same thing is expressed by variety of names ; and the places of scripture they bring to prove , the necessity of the inward illumination of the spirit , do prove the inward revelation of the spirit , both which are one , as john . . and cor. . , , , . it is written in the prophets , they shall all be taught of god ; every man therefore that hath heard and learned of the father , cometh unto me . and that other place in corinth . . , , , . as it is written , eye hath not seen , nor ear heard , neither have entred into the heart of man , the things which god hath prepared for them that love him : but god hath revealed them to us by his spirit ; for the spirit searcheth all things , even the deep things of god. for what man knoweth the things of a man , save the spirit of a man which is in him ? even so the things of god knoweth no man , but the spirit of god. now we have received not the spirit of the vvorld , but the spirit which is of god , whereby we know the things that are freely given us of god. there cannot be brought out of the whole scripture more suitable places , to prove the necessity of divine revelation than these are , the one plainly implying it , the other plainly expressing it . for to be taught of god , to hear and learn of the father , as the prophets and apostles did , what is it , but to be taught by divine inward revelation ? or if they will say nay , then the prophets and apostles were not taught of god , by the same argument . and whereas they bring paul's words , saying , god hath revealed them to us , to wit , these deep things of god , to prove the inward illumination of the spirit of god to all saints , as well as to paul ; the same proveth divine revelation , as it is expresly so called by paul in this very place ; for they must needs grant , that the divine illumination which paul had , was revelation , properly so called , and what he had he holdeth it forth , as common in kind to all saints and believers . and as for the word revelation , as signifying an inward operation of the holy spirit in the heart and understanding , we find it to be a phrase more frequently used in scripture , than the word illumination , or illuminated , or enlightned , or to enlighten ; yea , i find the word illuminated out once used in all the english translation of the whole bible , but revelation frequently is used in our english translation , and reveal , revealed ; see isa . . . and . . and . . jer. . . mat. . , . luke . , . rom. . . cor. . gal. . . . . phil. . . ephes . . . beside many other places . so that it is very strange , why these faith-makers at westminster should have such a grudge and prejudice at all new revelation , a word so frequently used in scripture , and yet pretend so great kindness to new inward illumination , which is the same ; for it passeth their skill , or any man 's else , to divide or separate the one from the other . . but the great knack , nicety or mystery of this distinction lieth in this , that inward illumination is only revelation , subjective or effective ; and in that sense , some of that sort of men , say , they own the necessity of inward revelation , and hold it to be all one with illumination . but they deny all inward objective illumination , or revelation , that is to say , any inward revelation of any inward object , inwardly proposed to the eye or ear , or other inward spiritual sense and faculty of the soul , the alone object of the souls whole kowledge , faith , fruition , enjoyment of god , and communion with him , being the scriptures , or god , christ and divine things not in themselves seen , or enjoyed , but as they are to be seen and known , or revealed in the words of scripture : hence they who use this distinction , say , the inward light , or illumination of the spirit , being only effective , or subjective , but not objective , i● medium incognitum assentiendi , or principium incognitum cognoscendi , that is to say , an unknown principle , or mean of knowing and assenting , which may be illustrated by this similitude , that there is an inward vigour of life , and natural spirits , that are necessary to enable the outward eye to see outward things and objects ; but that inward vigor of natural life and spirits , is not the object of the eye , nor seen by it ; or otherwise some may , or do understand by subjective inward revelation , or revelation on the part of the subject , the soul 's inward knowledge , or perception , as in the outward sight of things of this world there is the vision of the eye , or its sight and perception , and the object seen , and perceived by the eye : also , in hearing , there is the hearing , or perception of the ear , and the thing heard , be it voice , or sound of man , beast or bird , or musical instrument . and thus , according unto these mens doctrin , the alone adequate formal object of all faith , knowledge , fruition , enjoyment , sight and sense of the souls of the most excellent saints , either now living , or that have lived in all ages past since the apostles lived , is the scripture-words . but this is all meerly begged , and taken for granted , without all proof , and altogether contradictory to the experience of all the true saints of god , who have an inward sight , knowledge and enjoyment of god , far surpassing all words or writings ; and thus , according to these mens doctrin , all the knowledge or sight that the saints have of god in this life , is but as one that seeth england in a map : but never saw the land it self ; or as an hungry man , heareth and readeth good words of meat , but neither seeth , nor tasteth it ; and as a woman heareth of a husband she is married unto , or seeth his picture on a table , or on paper , or readeth a book that describeth his beauty and personage , but is never admitted to see him , or hear himself , nor to touch , handle or embrace him ; all which are sad tydings to souls that love god and christ ; but the best is , they are utterly false , and the experience of the saints abundantly prove them to be false ; and such dark ignorant blind doctrin , proveth sufficiently what dark ignorant blind men these have been , or are , who have published their own shame and folly to the face of the world , and as blind and ignorant are these teachers , who have since received and published the same blind doctrin . but if the inward light , or illumination be altogether an unknown principle to him that hath it , having no evidence , or light , or demonstration of its own , whereby to discover it , how shall any man be sure , or know surely that he hath any inward divine light or illumination ; for no scripture can tell him that he hath it , or that he hath the works of one that is divinely illuminated . one would think the bear naming , or mentioning such doctrin , is enough to refute it , as to say , god and christ is , and can only be known by words , or report and hear-say , whereas the scripture saith , ear hath not heard , nor eye seen , what these things are , which god hath prepared for his children : and yet all scripture words the ear doth hear , and the eye doth see , . but to come to the conclusion of the matter , it is to be noticed , or considred that there is a doctrinal and sensible knowledge of god , or discursive and intuitive ; as for the doctrinal and discursive knowledge of god , it is granted , that it cannot be without words , either of scripture , or some other words given by the same spirit ; and also it is granted , that scripture words , in god's ordinary way , are necessary to give to men the said doctrinal knowledge of god and christ , and many deep and mysterious things of the christian faith and religion ; but this doth not prove the ceasing of new divine revelation , but rather indeed establisheth it ; for the prophets and apostles , who had divine revelation , were profited , taught and edified by their fellow-prophets and apostles ; and especially the latter prophets , were much helped by the words and writings of the fore-going prophets , as daniel confessed , he understood by books , to wit , by jeremiah his prophecy , the number of the years of the captivity , dan. . . and christ opened the understanding of the apostles , to understand the scriptures of the old testament , what they did declare of him ; and paul freely confesseth , that the scriptures of the prophets were writ for his learning , as well as of other men , and yet he had great plenty of divine revelation , beyond what many of them had ; and david said , he had more knowledge than his teachers , and yet no doubt profited by them , and especially by the prophet samuel , and others that lived with him , and before him . next , as to the sensible and intuitive knowledge of god , it can be , and oft is without all words , either outwardly heard , or inwardly conceived , i mean words consisting of letters or syllables , such as are not the things , but signs of things , even as we have a sensible and intuitive knowledge of a land , by seeing it , and eating the fruit of it , and drinking the good wine or milk of it , tho' we are not hearing or reading of it , nor thinking of any words that ever we read or heard of it . and so , often the souls of god's people enjoy a sweet sight , taste , and repast of him in a deep inward quiet and stillness of mind , having no words of any sort , that can be expressed in letters or syllables , so much as in their present thoughts or remembrance ; and this is the most excellent degree of knowledge , and as far excelleth and transcendeth the other sort , as the sight taste and feeling of a thing doth the report or hear-say of it . it is also acknowledged , that oft it pleaseth god , to joyn of his life to scripture words , as promises , prophecies , or any others , as we hear , read , or meditate on them , and make them as conduits , pipes or cisterns , or as cups and flaggons , to convey the divine influences of his life , and living spirit of life , and love to our souls , but then they hinder not our revelation , to be real , and true , and proper revelation , as well objective , as subjective ; for as in drinking of outward wine in a glass , or cup , we not only see the glass or cup , that revealeth the wine , but also the wine it self , and the wine is the most desirable , and pleasant and acceptable object of both our sight and taste , and feeling , so that we regard the glass or cup little or nothing for it self , but for its use and service to us ; and if there be no wine , or other refreshing liquor in the cup , we care not to use it , it hath no taste unto us , nor service , but as the wine is in it : and thus it is with the living soul , that thirsts after the living god , and to drink of his spirit , that quickens and refresheth the soul , when it seeth or perceiveth any divine vertue or life ( as god is pleased , when , how , or by whom to joyn of the same to it ) in scripture words , either preached , read , or meditated , it is very glad , and most gladly maketh use of them , and giveth god thanks for his great mercy ; but without life be joyned unto them , it is no more wisdom , nor discretion to use them , than for a man to put an empty flaggon or cup to his mouth to drink at it . . but if they say , there is no sensible or intuitive knowledge of god in this life , at least since the apostles days ; as indeed it is most , yea , altogether most agreeable to their doctrin , who say , all new revelation of the spirit is ceased ; then i say unto them , they are miserable comforters , yea , miserable and sad gospellers to poor sion ; they bring not glad , but sad tydings ; they cannot say , behold , o sion , thy king cometh unto thee ; they cannot say , taste , and see that god is good ; they cannot say , the life was manifested , and we have seen it , and declare it unto you , that ye may have fellowship with us ; they cannot declare the great kindness and love that christ the soul's husband and bridegroom hath to his bride , but rather , their doctrin preacheth him to be most unkind , and unnatural , never to let his bride see him once all her life , here in this world , nor yet once to hear himself , or taste , or touch , or handle him , or be embraced by him . they preach altogether an absent christ , as some of them say , christ is not really and properly in his people , or if present , a christ altogether either dumb or silent , that being so near to the soul , as to be in it , never speaketh one word in it , and always hideth his face , and never giveth to the soul one glance or shine of his countenance . but if they be ashamed of this doctrin , which yet is the very purport of it , who deny all inward nèw revelation , and new visitations of the lord's love unto the souls of his people , then let them be ashamed to preach , teach , or write , that there is no new revelation of god and christ , nor no immediate or inward teaching , no inward and immediate calling , or sending to the ministry ; and let them be ashamed to own themselves to be the successors of the ancient protestants , who did acknowledge immediate teaching , and calling unto the ministry , and the spirit of prophecy ; and some of them had it , as george wishard , and others , whose prophecies fox in his book of martyrs hath recorded . . and whereas these faith-publishers at westminster , one while deny all new revelation , another while seem only to deny extraordinary revelation , as they term it , cap. . section . is another piece of non-sense , or contradiction ; for if all new revelation be ceased , as they expresly affirm , cap. . sect . . and . then there is neither ordinary nor extraordinary revelation remaining , according unto their doctrin . but the distinction of ordinary and extraordinary revelation , may in a true sense , be well admitted by them who believe , that divine inward revelation is not ceased ; for among the prophets , numb . . , , . moses's revelation far exceeded the revelation of the other prophets , as is clear from scripture , and in that respect was extraordinary : and we now plead for new divine revelation , we mean not extraordinary , beyond what god was pleased to give to his saints and children , in an ordinary and usual way , from the beginning of the world , more or less , nor do we compare our revelations with either the prophets or apostles , by way of equality , either in degree , or in all the various manners and ways which they had then : but we say , in that one way and manner , which was by god's inward appearance , and speaking in their hearts , in the divine seed and birth , we do plead for divine revelation , as the ordinary and common allowance and priviledge of all god's saints and people , and not only to saints , but to men and women , in order to their becoming saints , they need god and christ inwardly to speak unto them ; for it is the inward voice and speaking of christ , that quickneth the dead souls of men , according to the words of christ , the dead shall hear the voice of the son of god , and they that hear shall live , john . . chap. iii. of the supream judge and rule of controversies , of religion . it hath been already acknowledged in the first chapter , that the holy scriptures are a sufficient outward rule and standard , whereby to try all doctrins of men , however so holy or wise they may be , or however much indued with the holy spirit , because the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets ; and as the holy spirit of truth is one , so the words of it do all agree , in all the true prophets , apostles , evangelists , pastors and teachers ; and as is already said , the noble bereans were commended in scripture , for searching the scriptures to see and examin , whether the apostles doctrin was according to the doctrin of the ancient prophets that wrote the old testament ; and until the apostles doctrin was generally received , they did appeal to the scriptures of the old testament , for a proof of their doctrin , although that was not their only proof ; for they had a greater proof than that outward was , even the inward witnéss and testimony of the holy ghost , that made both them , and their doctrin manifest in the hearts and consciences of their hearers , whose hearts god was pleased to open . . and therefore in respect of any outward rule and standard , the scripture is sufficient , and to be preferred in all respects to any other latter writings , or testimonies , or records whatsoever ; first , because writ from a greater measure and depth of divine wisdom ; for though the spirit be one , yet it hath diversity of gifts and operations , and administrations ; and all men divinely inspired , had not the same clearness of divine knowledge , numb . . , , . moses exceeded the prophets generally , david and solomon exceeded many of them ; and isaiah and jeremiah exceeded others of them ; and among the prophets some were as fathers , some as sons ; hence we read in scripture , that god is the father of lights , and of these lights , as to us , some are higher , and some lower , which some mystick writers , both among jews and christians , have taken notice of , out of the scripture it self ; hence they say , moses drank at the fountain , samuel , david , solomon , and some others , drank at the streams ; and others of an inferior degree , at the pond or cistern : and they further say , moses had his revelations from binah , abraham from gedulah , a step lower ; isaac from geburah , yet lower ; jacob from tipheret , yet lower , but partaking of both , signified by his dwelling in tents , betwixt the tents of abraham and isaac ; david sometimes from tipheret , and sometimes from nezah and hod ; hence we read some of the inscriptions of his psalms to nezah ; and sometimes from mulcuth ; and they say that the ordinary prophets had their revelations from these two divine measures , nezah and hod , called exod. . . the looking-glasses of the lords hosts that assemble at the door of the tabernacle , ( see the heb. text ) but moses had liberty to go into the heavenly tabernacle it self , and so had some others . and that god did make himself more known to moses , than to abraham , isaac , and jacob , is clear from these words of his to moses at the bush , i appeared to abraham , isaac and jacob by the name of god almighty , but by my name jehovah , was i not known to them , exod. . . and concerning this distinction of divine gifts and illuminations , paul declareth , saying , to one is given the word of wisdom , to another the word of knowledge , to another faith , all by the same spirit . hence we read in the proverbs , wisdom , understandang and knowledge distinguished , wisdom buildeth the house , vnderstanding establisheth it , and knowledge filleth the chambers with all precious and pleasant riches , prov. . , . therefore wisdom is a degree above understanding , and understanding a degree above knowledge , all which divine measures are set in order , as the parts of a tree , with root , branches and tops , or as the members of a mans body , by way of allegory and analogy , cochmah , binah and daath , belonging to the head , gedulah , geburah to the right and left hand and arm , tipheret to the body , nesah , hod and jesod to the thighs and legs , &c. and mulcuth lowest of all ; all which make up , by way only of allegory and analogy the parts and members of the son of man , or heavenly adam , as both ezekiel and john saw him upon his throne . the english names of these hebrew words , all which are found in scripture , in their true order , are these following , cochmah , i e. wisdom , binah , i. e. understanding or prudence , daath , i. e. knowledge , ( see chron. . ) gedulah , i. e. magnificence , geburah , i. e. power , tipheret , i. e. beauty , nesah and hod , i. e. victory and glory , jesod , i. e. foundation , and mulcuth , i. e. the kingdom . and secondly and most especially , we give the preheminence to the scriptures beyond all latter writers , because we are well assured that the scriptures throughout are pure , without all mixture of error or mistake ; and this is generally granted by all christians , that the scriptures are really so , being duly and rightly translated , but we are not assured that any mans or mens writings since , are altogether pure and free of all mixture of error and human weakness , until they be duly examined and found to agree to the holy scriptures , and to the inward testimony of the holy spirit ; for altho' whatever the spirit of god inwardly revealeth , is infallible and pure from all mixture of error , and whatever any man saith or writeth , as he hath receiv'd it from that , his testimony is pure , and without mixture ; yet we are not assured that any man or men are in that state of perfection , that they may not by human frality , in some measure or way , more or less , decline or depart from the pure and infallible teachings of the spirit of god ; for as it is possible they may purely and chastely keep unto them , so for want of due watchfulness and holy care , they may more or less depart from them , and so there may be a mixture of truth and error , both in their understandings and words ; and therefore they are not to be taken on trust , but both their doctrin in all things is to be tryed by the scripture , and their spirit by the spirit of truth , as every one is able , according to what he hath received . all which doth not hinder but that the spirit of god in our day both teacheth and leadeth infallibly , although the disciples and professed followers of it at times , by weakness , may be liable to mistakes . . and as concerning that phrase or expression that some use , that the spirit of god speaking in the scriptures , is the supream judge of all controversies of religion , although it is no scripture phrase , nor proper , but figurative , as when a man is said to speak in his books or writings ; yet in a figurative sense it might be allowed , if they did not confine all the speaking of the spirit of god to his only and alone speaking in the scriptures , so as that the spirit speaketh not at all , as they would have it , in the souls and hearts of men , as he used to do in the prophets and apostles . and because they have a wrong sense of it , and that it is not proper , but figurative , it is better not to use it . and in the room of it , i say , the spirit of god speaking in some measure in the heart of every true believer and spiritual man , opening and expounding the scripture unto him , in the due and diligent use of reading , hearing , and meditation of scripture words , or any other means of god's appointing for our institution , and especially in the frequent use of fervent and earnest prayer , praying earnestly with david , who was richly indued with divine revelation , open my eyes , that i may see the wonderful things of thy law ; and most especially in our being found in the way of righteousness , and faithful obedience , to what is already revealed unto us ; for as we are found here , we have good warrant to expect that where any doubt , or controversie in doctrin , or in the meaning of a place of scripture doth arise , that god's holy spirit , whom christ hath promised to his disciples , to teach them all things , and to lead them into all truth , will indeed judge and decide the matter in question , in their hearts , by his secret light , and teaching or revelation . and let it be noted , that i say , it is not the spirit abstractly considered from the scriptures , or our due use of them , or the duty that god requireth of us , but it is the holy spirit opening , or expounding the scriptures unto us , in reading , hearing , meditation , prayer , waiting , and obedience to what we already know , that it is the judge of all controversie in matter of doctrin . . next , as to the rule , as the scripture is the best and only external or outward rule and standard , it is worthily preferred to all other outward records and testimonies ; yet because we both believe the scriptures not simply for their own testimony , but for the inward witness and testimony of the spirit , and also because we can only understand the scriptures but by the said inward witness and testimony of the holy spirit ; therefore the inward witness of the spirit , or the spirit inwardly witnessing both to the truth , and true sense of scripture , is the greatest and primary rule , as john plainly testified , saying , if we receive the testimony of men , the testimony or witness of god is greater ; and he that believes hath the witness in himself , and hath set to his seal that god is true . and therefore paul recommended his doctrin to the witness of the spirit in the hearts and consciences of the hearers , and told the thessalonians , thess . . . that his gospel came unto them not in word only , but in power , and in the holy ghost , and in much assurance : and he told the corinthians , that their faith was to stand in the power of god ; and therefore not in the bare words that he preached , for he did not preach himself , nor his words , but christ to be the foundation of their faith. chap. iv. concerning ministerial gifts and qualifications , and the call to the ministry ; the nature and manner of true preaching , and praying , and singing , and the true gospel-maintenance to the ministry . . because of the near and close connexion and dependance , that the things mentioned in the title of this chapter , have with the truth of what is delivered in the preceeding chapters , therefore i do see it meet to treat of them in this place . the common doctrin and opinion of these , who deny all new revelation of the holy spirit , is , that natural and acquired parts of letter-learning , without divine inward revelation or inspiration , is sufficient to qualifie a man to be a minister of the gospel , and is necessary to his esse or being of a minister , and grace or true piety and holiness , is only accidental , and doth but only contribute to his bene esse , or making him the better . by letter-learning , they do not only mean human arts and sciences , and the knowledge of greek , hebrew and latin , but especially a letter-knowledge of the scripture , without any saving grace , or illumination of the spirit , as being essential to a minister : and indeed they say agreeable enough to their own doctrin ; for if all new revelation of the spirit is ceased , what is left behind to qualifie a man to be a minister , but only natural and acquired parts of letter-learning ? nor can they with any reason , affirm , according to their doctrin , that true piety and holiness is essential to a minister , otherwise no man is a minister without it , and then it doth follow , that no man can infallibly be known whether he be a real minister , yea or nay ; for if divine inward revelation be ceased , then all infallible discerning of mens spirits , and spiritual estates is ceased , and no man can know another infallibly , whether he be a saint or hypocrite ; for they grant that a hypocrite may have all the outwards of a true christian , as the pharisees that made clean the outside , but their inward was full of rottenness and uncleanness . and if a man cannot be known to be a true minister , according to their doctrin , the people are in a woful case , as concerning that they call their sacraments , and especially that called the supper , which they say cannot be administred but by a true and real minister ; and if any that is not a true minister , should presume to do any such thing , as to bless , or consecrate , and set apart the bread and wine from common use , it would be no sacrament at all , as some , or most of them affirm . . now that divine revelation and inspiration , is necessary to the being or essential constitution of a minister of christ , is evident from the doctrin already delivered ; because it is necessary to the being or essential constitution of every true christian . no man is , or can be a true christian without inward divine revelation or inspiration , and therefore without the same , no man can be a true christian , or gospel-minister , for that which is absolutely necessary to constitute a true christian , or believer , is absolutely necessary to constitute a true christian minister , otherwise it might be said , a man may be a true christian minister , and yet no true christian . but every true minister of christ , as he ought to be a true christian , so he ought to be more than an ordinary christian , so as to exceed or excel them , both in spiritual knowledge , and other spiritual gifts , even as in natural teaching , the master or teacher should exceed the scholar ; for if divine inward revelation , and inspiration , together with other spiritual gifts , are the common priviledg of all true christians , in some degree , more or less , according to their several growth and capacity , much more are they to be found in the true ministers of christ , who are both to feed the babes with milk , and the strong men with meat , and to be , rom. . , . the guide of the blind , a light of them which are in darkness , and instructors of the foolish , and teachers of babes , and also who can speak wisdom among them that are perfect ; according to which christ said to his apostles , ye are the light of the world , and the salt of the earth . . but more particularly , it is apparent from the scripture , that there is a peculiar ministerial gift or gifts , that god giveth to all his true ministers , to fit or qualifie them for that great work , whereby to make them able ministers of the new-testament , not of the letter , but of the spirit ; the which gifts are the purchase of christ , and the fruits and effects of his death , resurrection and ascension , as is clear from ephes . . , , . when he ascended on high , he led captivity captive , and gave gifts unto men , and he gave some apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , pastors and teachers . where altho' it may be granted , that some of these are extraordinary , as namely , apostles , and some ordinary , yet all are given to the church by christ , as the fruit and effect of his purchase ; and that therefore all ordinary ministers , who are indeed true ministers of christ , are indued with some measure of spiritual gifts , in more or less , according to the good pleasure of god. and as concerning the spiritual peculiar gifts of the holy spirit ( besides these that were common to all , such as faith , love , hope , knowledge , meekness , temperance , patience , brotherly-kindness , charity ) the scripture doth expresly mention them in divers places , cor. . . to one is given by the spirit , the word , i. e. speech or utterance of wisdom , to another the vvord of knowledg ( that is , some degree inferior ) to another faith , that is , some peculiar degree of faith , for some peculiar service , besides the faith common to all believers ; and all these are ordinary , and have still remained in the true church ; but together with these in the apostles days , there were extraordinary gifts ; which god may give , or with-hold , as he pleaseth ; as not being essential to a true minister of christ ; such were gifts of miracles , gifts of healing , gifts of tongues , and the like . and as concerning prophecying , it was either extraordinary , or ordinary ; extraordinary was a fore-telling of particular things to come , as was that of agabus , his fore-telling that paul should be bound at jerusalem ; ordinary , was the ordinary and usual manner of preaching by the inspiration and motion of the holy ghost , in doctrin , exhortation , correction , &c. moreover concerning this diversity of spiritual gifts , paul saith , rom. . . having then gifts , differing according to the grace that is given to us , whether prophecy , let us prophecy according to the proportion of faith ; or ministry , let us wait on our ministry , or he that teacheth , on teaching , or he that exhorteth , on exhortation . and likewise peter , concerning these spiritual gifts , saith , pet. . , . as every man hath received the gift , even so minister the same one to another , as good stewards of the manifold grace of god. if any man speak , let him speak as the oracles of god : if any man minister , let him do it as of the ability ( or vertue ) which god giveth , that god in all things may be glorified through jesus christ . and as touching spiritual gifts , that were not common to all christians , but peculiar to some , paul exhorted the believing corinthians , saying , cor. . . desire spiritual gifts , but rather that ye may prophecy . and he declareth what that prophecying was , vers . he that prophesieth speaketh unto men , to edification , and exhortation , and comfort . and vers . . greater is he that prophesieth , than he that speaketh with tongues , except he interpret , that the church may receive edifying . and concerning the great power and virtue of prophecying , he said further , vers . , . if all prophesie , and there come in one that believeth not , or unlearned , he is convinced of all , he is judged of all : and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest , and so falling upon the person , to wit , ( that did prophesie ) for so the words may be better translated ) he will worship god , and report that god is in you of a truth . . now in the true church , and among the true believers , there was a spiritual discerning or judgment that they had , whereby they did know who had these spiritual gifts , and who had them not , who spoke , and preached by the spirit , and who did pray and sing by the spirit , and who did not , and who not only had the words , but the power , and who had only the words , and had not the power ; and these were false apostles , and false teachers , and hypocrites , that had good words , which they did take or receive from other men , but had not that good power and spirit that was in the true ministers of christ , and because they had not that good power , their ministry and words were dead , dry and barren ; and such the scripture compareth to clouds without rain , and wells or cisterns without water ; and of such paul said , he would know not the speech of them which are puffed up , but the power , cor. . . the which spiritual discerning or judgment , as it was in some measure given in common to all true believers , as the sense of taste is given in common to beasts & mankind , whereby to relish things sweet or bitter , and meats and drinks , that have the true nourishing virtue in them , so it was given in some greater measure to some than to others , according to their growth , experience , and exercise or use of their spiritual senses , even as both among men and beasts , some do far excell others in the sagacity of the taste of outward things , and so in the smell of things , as flowers , spices , &c. and according to this spiritual discerning and judgment , paul said to the corinthians , cor. , . &c. let the prophets speak two or three , and let the other judge : if any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by , let the first hold his peace ; for ye may all prophecy one by one , that all may learn , and all may be comforted , and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets : for god is not the author of confusion , but of peace , as in all the churches of the saints . so , we see here was good order , where in one meeting two or three might speak one after another , or more , if they had any motion of the spirit so to do , and in that case , the first speaker was to give place to him : but nothing of this is to be found among these churches who deny all inward new revelation of the spirit , but one man must take up all the time , and preach over the people one year , after another , and the people ever learning , and yet never able to come to the knowledge of the truth , as was the manner of false teachers in days past , who had the form of godliness , but denyed the power thereof , who were to be turned from , tim. . , , . and concerning the trying and knowing of spirits , as well as doctrins , the apostle john writ in his general epistle , john . . believe not every spirit , but try the spirits , whether they are of god. now this ability to try spirits , is greater than barely to try whether a man's doctrin be true or false ; for it is possible a man may preach for an hour , or more , words of doctrin that may be true , and yet his spirit not be of god. and that which gave them this ability , to try all spirits , as well as doctrins , was the vnction , or anointing from the holy one which they had received , john . , but ye have an vnction , from the holy ' one , and ye know all things . and vers . , . these things have i written unto you , concerning them that seduce you , i. e. seek to seduce you ) but the anointing which ye have received of him , abideth in you , and ye need not that any man teach you , but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things , &c. . but because it is taken for granted , and laid down for a fundamental among presbyterians and independent teachers , as well as many others , that all inward divine revelation and inspiration , such as believers had in the time of the apostles , is ceased , therefore they lay no claim to any of these spiritual gifts , and plainly confess they have them not , and also that they have no infallible discerning or knowledge what men are truly gracious , and holy , and living members of christ's body , and what not . and therefore when these and other places of scripture are brought , that declare how true ministers of christ had spiritual gifts of ministration , some in a lesser degree , and some in a greater , they alledge , all these gifts are now ceased ; and the reason they give , is , because all inward divine revelation and inspiration , such as the saints formerly had , is altogether ceased . whereas if they did grant , that inward divine revelation did continue , they would also readily grant , that these spiritual gifts of ministry did continue , and a spiritual discerning and ability , whereby to know infallibly who were indeed indued with the spirit of god , and who did preach and pray by the spirit , or sing by the spirit , and who not . and the like concerning the ministerial call , if they did grant , that divine inward revelation and inspiration did continue in the church , as the common priviledge of all true and sound believers , as being given to all and every one of them , to lead them into all truth , they would readily enough grant , that ministers had an inward call to preach , and exercise other ministerial services and performances , as these ministers did of old . so that indeed this their doctrin , that inward divine revelation is ceased in the church , and in believers , is the foundation of many other false and pernicious doctrins , yea , almost of all the false and erroneous doctrins they have among them . and since it is so , that they have no belief of having the spirit of god inwardly inspiring them , and revealing in them the things of god , and inwardly teaching them the mysteries of the kingdom , what is their ministry , or church or ordinances ? all made things of mans making , and inventing , and setting up ; a man-made church , man-made ministry , man-made ordinances , and a man-made worship . and though they say , they hope they have the spirit , and seem at times to lay great stress and weight upon it , and the need of it , not only to believe , but to do all good and acceptable works and performances , yet their blind doctrin and unbelief , that all inward divine revelation is ceased , doth so blind and darken them , generally , and make them so spiritually stupid , senseless and benummed , that they plainly confess , they have no infallible assurance , or infallible knowledge that they have the spirit of god , or any of these gracius motions and operations of the holy spirit . for according to their blind doctrin and faith , all the motions and operations of the spirit are only effective , but none of them objective , and any illumination that they have is only effective , and not objective , that is to say , is no immediate object of their knowledge , or feeling , or spiritual perception , the spirit only works in them , so to speak , as fire or heat works in stone , or iron , or wood , but the stone , iron or wood hath not any inward sense or perception of it ; for if they did grant , true spiritual sense and spiritual feeling or perception , they would grant infallible knowledge of these things , even as our outward senses , when sound and duly qualified , and within due circumstances , give us an infallible knowledge of outward things ; for is not every sensible child infallibly sure that it both seeth its mother , and feeleth her , when the mother is handling the child , and feeding it ? and doth not the suckling on the breast surely know the milk that it sucketh , and can well distinguish the breast that hath milk in it , from that which is dry and empty ? but as the epistle to the hebrews saith , things made , ( to wit , the things of mans making , without the spirit and power of god inwardly revealed ) are all to be removed , heb. . , . yet once more i shake not the earth only , but also heaven . and this word yet once more , signifieth , the removing of these things , that may be shaken , as of things that are made , that those things which cannot be shaken may remain . let them consider this , who seem to themselves to have a church constitution , ministry , discipline , worship , far above others , as heaven is above earth , as the presbyterian church thinks she is above the episcopal , the independent church thinks she is above the presbyterian , the baptists think themselves above both , and yet all these , as well as others , are open and declared enemies to the holy spirit , his inward revelation and inspiration , by which alone the true church is a living church , and the ministry a living ministry , and every true member a living member , and all truly religions , duties and services are living . but made things of mans making , are all dead things , and therefore must all be shaken and removed , not the made earth only , but the made heavens also , of mans making , made faiths , made worships , made ministers , made covenants , all things of mens making without the spirit and power of god inwardly revealed , must all be removed , and every plant that is not of the heavenly fathers planting , must be plucked up . but if any of them say , our churches , our ministry , our faith , our worship , our covenant is not so , for we have the spirit of god assisting us , and working together with us . this answer is but a meer presumption or conjecture , seeing they deny all inward revelation and inspiration of the spirit , which gave the believers and saints in former ages , an infallible kowledge and assurance that they had the spirit of god ; for the spirit that they claim unto , as they say , doth only work in them effectively , but not by way of object ; it is altogether an unknown mean or principle of operation , it hath no proper light , or evidence , or demonstration of its own , such as the spirit that was in the apostles is no infallible spirit , that they have , but fallible , and therefore their faith is fallible , their knowledge fallible , their hope fallible , and every thing in them fallible , dubious , conjectural and uncertain , and they only think that they have the spirit of god , and a spiritual knowledge of things ; and when asked , they dare not say , their thought hath any infallible assurance in it ; as all true assurance is infallible ; yea , some of them are so dark , ignorant and blind , that to me in my hearing , have affirmed , that the apostle paul was not infallibly sure that he had the spirit of god , bringing paul's words , cor. . . i think also , that i have the spirit of god. but according to his blind argument , the holy ghost is not infallibly sure , for the same greek word is applied to the holy ghost , acts . . it seemed good to the holy ghost ; but this is blasphemous to think or affirm , and i see not how they can clear their doctrin of blasphemy , to say , that they have the spirit of god , and yet to affirm , that they have no infallible spirit : the plain english of which is , that the spirit of god and god himself is fallible . . but the great cause and reason , why all true ministers and preachers of the gospel should not only be truly godly and holy men , but also should be indued with some more than ordinary power of the holy spirit , and communications thereof , not common to all christians , at least in degree , though one spirit in all , is , that the ministry of every true minister of christ , is a ministration of grace , of spirit , of life and power , which doth emanate or flow forth from or through the minister or preacher , as living waters that emanate and flow from a living spring or fountain , which reach and flow into the hearts and inward parts of the hearers , such as are sensible , and whose hearts god is pleased to open to receive them , and sometimes to the opening and making alive the dead souls and hearts of many hearers , whereby not only many that are spiritually dead , are made alive , but the living are made more living , and livingly refreshed and strengthened ; and though this can hardly , or not at all be received by many , yet thousands can witness it from living experience , that they have felt streams of divine life , power and vertue to spring and flow forth , from the spirit of christ , in faithful preachers , into their souls and inward parts , to their exceeding refreshing , and strengthning in the inward man ; and the scriptures abundantly confirm it , that so it was in the primitive times , the ministers of christ , were the ministers of the spirit and power of god , and the outward and audible words that reached the outward ears , were only as a conduit of conveyance , to convey and transmit that heavenly virtue that flowed through them ; and therefore the ministers of god are called in scripture flames of fire , and their words and preaching have a divine and spiritual fire , and heat in them , that exceedingly warm and melt the cold and congealed hearts of many hearers , and that fire is a living fire , or power of life to quicken them . and this was it that made the two disciples , going to emaus , say , how did not our hearts burn within us , while he spoke to us by the way , and opened the scriptures unto us ? and when christ preached to the people , it is said , he spoke with authority , that is , power , and not as the scribes ; and so did the apostles , as paul declared , that his preaching was in demonstration of the spirit , and of power . and christ and the holy spirit spake in him to the people , when he preached ; and so did it in all the other apostles and ministers of christ , and the hearers , who had and knew christ in their own hearts , had a proof sufficient that christ spoke in paul , by what they felt of that spiritual vertue and power that did flow forth through him in his ministry . and according to this , peter exhorted , that he who ministers , should minister of the power that god giveth , as good stewards of the manifold grace of god : so they ministred not only words , but grace , and power , and life to the hearers . and thus there is a communication of the grace , and graces of god , not only betwixt ministers and hearers , but among all the faithful , who are as one living body , but many members , and every member a living member , and ministring life one to another , as it is in the natural body ; and this is that communion of the saints that the scripture testifieth , that they had together in the spirit , which did knit their hearts together in love , unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding , col. . . and with such living instruments , that are spiritually made alive unto god , doth god work , to make their ministry effectual and fruitful , to convert and beget souls unto god , and when begotten , to nourish and feed them with the sincere milk of the word , which milk is not the outward words , but the life that is in the words : for as in the outward , god doth not work with a dead man , to beget outward and natural children , but with the living ; so it is with men spiritually living , with whom god worketh , to beget sons and daughters spiritually unto god , where god only properly and principally is the father , and men but instruments with , and by whom he worketh ; and in order to this spiritual begetting of sons and daughters unto god , by the ministry of faithful preachers , god giveth unto them a spiritual and divine seed , which they convey in their words into the hearts and souls of their hearers , according to cor. . . he that ministreth seed to the sower . and isa . . . that it may give seed to the sower . so that there is a divine and spiritual seed in the words and preaching of a true minister of christ ; for the words are living words , and are not his , but the words of christ , and of the holy spirit that speaketh in him . but he that speaketh words , as suppose scripture-words , and not by the spirit of christ speaking in him , there is no divine seed in the words , there is the form or body of the words , but there is no soul or life in them , as he speaks them . and these men are like that harlot which took hold of josephs garment , but himself she could not enjoy : so many get the outward form of the words of truth , but the spirit of truth they have not , and who have it not , cannot minister it : and therefore paul imputeth all the good fruit and success of his ministry not to himself , but to the grace of god that was with him , and in him , cor. . . how then can a graceless man have any fruit or success in his ministry , seeing all fruit and success belongeth not to the man , however so well furnished with natural or acquired parts , but to the grace of god ? it is grace , grace , that maketh a man's preaching effectual to the hearers , and that grace is in the minister , and worketh both in him , and with him in the hearts of the hearers , where god is pleased to concur , and give the blessing and increase ; and thus the grace of god is like a good seed and plant , that not only bringeth forth fruit in that little spot of earth , where it was first planted , but spreadeth abroad , and filleth many other parts and places with it , and hath new roots and seeds continually encreasing and multiplying . . and as concerning the call to the ministry , it is worthy of great observation , how they are pinched and narrowed to give any colourable account of their call , who deny all inward and immediate calling to the ministry , and especially such of them , who say , the church of rome is no true church , but a harlot , and the pope is antichrist ; as the westminster cenfession of faith doth expresly call him , cap. . sect . . and yet the presbyterian ministers generally derive their call from him ; and i have heard divers of them expresly affirm it , being questioned about their call , whether immediate or mediate ? they have answered mediate , from the apostles ; and then being urged to shew the line of succession , through which that mediate call is conveyed unto them , they have plainly said , the popes of rome , as one lately , a preacher in new-england said , before some hundreds of people , that their call to preach , was by the popes of rome ; and so according to their own doctrin , by antichrist . surely these men do not believe that christ is in them , either to call , or furnish them in their ministry , who must go so far as rome to bring it , and from him too whom they call antichrist . but they think rome , and the pope however much distant from them , is much nearer than christ and heaven , from whom the true ministers have their call. . and as all true preaching ought to be by the inspiration and moving of the spirit of god , so all true praying and singing , both in private and in publick ; for still that is it which the scripture enjoyneth , ephes . . . to pray always with the spirit , or in the spirit ; and no man can say that jesus is the lord , either in preaching or praying , but by the holy ghost . and i charge them to produce one instance , where praying without the spirit is commanded any where in scripture , or was ever practised by any of the saints , without the inspiration of the spirit . do they not grant , that all the prayers recorded in scripture , did proceed from divine inspiration and revelation ? and if their prayers do not , they are quite of a bastard kind ; for the true worshippers worship the father in spirit and in truth , and the father seeketh such to worship him , and none else . and whereas some say , then men who neglect prayer , are excusable , because they have not the spirit to move them to prayer . i answer ; not , they are not in the least excusable , for as he that oweth a sum of mony to his prince , though he hath not wherewith to pay his debt , is still debtor , and yet must not pay with false coyn , but true ; so he , who hath not the spirit 's assistance and help to pray , is still obliged to pray , but not without the spirit ; and that he hath not the spirit 's help at all seasonable and requisite times for prayer , it is his own default , who hath resisted the spirit , and provoked him to with-draw his necessary assistance from him ; for the spirit of the lord is ready to give his seasonable help to all men , to help them both in prayer , and thanksgiving , and all other commanded duties and performances . and as for singing on a book , and with artificial musick , and notes or tones , it is no part of gospel-worship , being no where either commanded , or practised in the new-testament . and it is strange , that these men should be against praying on a book , and yet sing on a book , for if the one be not spiritual , the other is not . . there are others , such as these called independents and baptists , who deny all immediate call to the ministry , and yet betake themselves to as poor and shiftless evasion about their call , as the former . they say , they have the call of the church . but still the question is , whence had the church her power , either immediately or mediately ? and then the former difficulty returneth : for they cannot say , their church hath been visible from the apostles days ; and besides , the church is posterior to the ministry , for by true preachers and ministers , people come to be converted , and so to be made fit members of a church , and therefore the ministers , by whom their church was first raised , or gathered , cannot have their call from the same , for that were to put the effect before the cause ; or to say , the church called the ministers , and the ministers called the church , is to run into a circle ; as to say , the egg bringeth forth the hen , and the hen bringeth for the egg , to wit , first of all , which is impossible . . and as concerning true gospel-maintenance to the ministry ; any maintenance that may be necessary , to any that are poor , and have not of their own , according to the scripture , it ought to be free and voluntary , without force of human law and compulsion ; for the scripture saith , he that preacheth the gospel , should live by the gospel . it doth not say , by human laws , and straining of mens goods and cattle , as the preachers both of old and new-england have done ; and they ought to relie upon the gracious care and providence of god , that never suffered his ministers to want : for when christ sent forth his disciples without bag or scrip , at their return they said , they wanted nothing . secondly , there should be no bargaining in the case betwixt the minister and the people , for that is altogether mercenary , and proveth them to be hirelings , and the servants of men , who have so hired them . thirdly , they should receive only to supply their present necessities , and labour with their hands , as honest paul did , that he might make the gospel of christ without charge , who would not abuse his power in the gospel , cor. . . and cor. . . i was chargeable to no man. and thes . . . because we would not be chargeable , and thes . . . for why may not ministers , when they do not preach , or otherwise labour in the ministerial work , work with their hands to supply their necessities , to live honestly and worthily , as many preachers at this day ( as well as formerly ) do , both work and preach by turns , and as they have freely received , so they give freely ; and these no man can charge them , that they have made their gospel chargeable , as the preachers both of old and new-england have done , who have put the people to great charge of many thousand pounds yearly , and yet the people is not profited under them ; and they have by force taken , or caused to be taken , from many who did not hear them , nor own them to be ministers of christ , for which they have no president either in the old or new testament . . and whereas they who plead , that true piety is not essential to a gospel-minister : first , bring judas for a president , to which it is easily answered ; first , that it is said , judas fell from his ministry by transgression , and therefore some time he stood ; and it is more than ever they can prove , that judas never had any measure of true piety or sanctification , when christ did first send him forth ; for although he might have covetous and evil inclinations , that doth not argue that he had nothing of true sanctification , according to their own doctrin , who affirm , that a man may have true sanctification , and yet have not only strong evil inclinations , but very evil practices . but dly , when judas was called , the pure gospel dispensation had not taken place , and did not until christ rose from the dead , and gave the holy ghost . next they say , christ told the people , that the pharisees sate in moses chair , and he did not forbid them , but rather encouraged them to hear them , saying , do what they say , but do not as they do . to this it is answered , the pharisees and scribes teaching belonged to the law ; and so they pass from the true state of the question , which is , whether ministers of the gospel need not true holiness to make them true ministers ? dly . they object paul's words concerning some that preached christ not sincerely , and yet he said , christ was preached , and therein he rejoyced . to which i answer , that doth not justifie their preaching , but it holdeth forth the great power and wisdom of god , that causeth all things to work together for his own glory , and the good of his , as when by persecutions , and reproaches , and slanders , and false accusations , and contending against the truth , the truth doth the more spread and flourish , as hath oft been known , and therein god's servants have rejoyced ; yet this doth not justifie these persecutors , lyers , and false accusers . chap. v. concerning god , his decrees , and election and reprobation , and the general state of mankind by means of adam's fall , and the way of restoration by christ . . it hath been a common thing among both presbyterian and independent teachers , in old and new-england , to accuse the honest people , called in derision quakers , of being guilty of blasphemy against god and christ , and the holy ghost , for no other cause , but that they express their faith of the great mystery of the father , the son , and the holy ghost , in scripture words , and have not freedom to use the words of man's wisdom , and that come only from the spirit of man , and have not proceeded from the spirit of god , whereby to express and declare their faith of so great and glorious mystery : and by means of this so great accusation , and others as false and injurious , they prevailed with the magistrates of new-england , to cause to be put to death three dear and precious men-servants of the lord , and one dear and precious maid-servant of the lord , beside many other cruel sufferings inflicted upon others , for which great cruelty and barbarity , the hand of the lord hath been manifestly stretched out against them , in manifest judgments and plagues , that divers among them have since acknowledged . and therefore let all men know , to whose hands this may come , that the people called quakers , never denyed , but on the contrary , faithfully believed , and do still faithfully believe whatever is recorded in the holy scriptures , of that great mystery , to wit , that god is one , and that the father , the son , and the holy ghost is that one only , true and living god , the creator and upholder of all , and lord and king of all visible and invisible things , and that the father is begotten of none , the son is begotten of the father , from everlasting , and before all time ; and the holy ghost hath proceeded from the father , and from the son , from everlasting , and before all time ; and that the son is god manifest in flesh , who came in the flesh , in the fulness of time , as the scripture declareth ; and that the lord jesus christ whom the apostles preached , that dyed for our sins , and rose again for our justification , and is ascended and gone into heaven , is that alone son of god , and the only begotten of the father , in whom the fulness of the god-head dwelleth bodily , and the lord jesus christ in the intire and perfect nature of man , consisting of soul and body , is gone into heaven , and is in heaven ; and that his body that was crucified , and buried , did not see corruption , but was raised on the third day , and after forty days did ascend , and was glorified , according to which glorious body of the lord jesus christ , we believe that at the resurrection of the dead our bodies shall be changed , and be made like , or conform . acts . . and that the same jesus , who is ascended , and was taken up into heaven , shall so come in like manner as they did see him go into heaven . . and as concerning god , we believe , that he is a spirit , infinite , unchangeable and incomprehensible , omniscient , omnipotent and omnipresent , infinitely wise , holy , powerful , good , merciful and gracious , just and righteous , that he is light and love ; and whatever the scripture doth declare of him , we faithfully believe ; although this name of him , to wit , light , the faith-publishers at westminster have altogether omitted in their confession , whether heedlesly or designedly , that i leave ; but it seemeth they knew little of him , if any thing at all , by that name ; and yet it was the message that the apostles heard from him , and declared unto men , that god is light , and that he is in the light , to wit , in christ , who is the light of men ; and that if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellowship one with another , and the blood of his son jesus christ cleanseth us from all sin , john . , , . and indeed it suits most with their doctrin , that all inward divine revelation is ceased , either to conceal , or deny that god is light , as to us , and in us , or in any of his saints , or that christ is light to and in his saints ; for the nature of the light , yea , of all true light , is to reveal , and make it self manifest by it self , as well as other things ; and this description the apostle paul giveth of it , ephes . . . whatever maketh manifest , is light , according to the english translation ; or as it may be as well translated , the light is that which maketh manifest every thing , to wit , both it self , and all other things : and this description of light belongeth only to god and christ , and the holy spirit , in the full extent of it ; for no created light , visible or invisible , can manifest or reveal all things , the outward light of the sun can only manifest some outward things , but not all , it cannot let us see what is under the earth , or in the bottom of the seas , but god can , and doth search all deeps , and can reveal or make manifest every thing , however so hid ; and therefore the name light doth more properly belong to god , the father of lights , and to christ , and to the holy ghost , than to any created light , visible or invisible ; and yet a publick preacher in new-england , in the town of hampton , before some hundreds of people , most of them his common hearers , did affirm , that god was not properly light , but only by a figure borrowed from the outward light of the sun : and to say , god was light , and christ was light , was the fundamental error of the quakers . and though some of his brethren have blamed his rashness , yet it cannot be denyed , but he said that which was most consequential and agreeable to his brethren's doctrin , and the westminster confession of faith , which the church of new-england hath espoused to be her confession of faith also ; for if god do not at all reveal himself immediately , or any other things , he is not light at all unto his saints now on earth ; as we may well say , if the outward sun should with-draw his beams altogether from the eyes of men , or that some dark body should be interposed always betwixt the sun's light and men's eyes , the sun should not be light unto men ; for it is the nature and property of all light , to reveal it self immediately to every one , or else not at all , and always to be its own messenger , and to discover , teach and direct men by its own light and evidence , and not by any other thing . for to say , the sun doth not lighten us immediately , when it giveth us its illumination , is a great contradiction that the assertion carrieth to it self ; for whatever means or mediums the sun's light passeth through to our eyes , as the air , glass , and the tunicles of our eyes , or suppose some lattise or thin vail , or cloathing , yet it s still immediate ; or if it be reflected from a looking-glass , or any other object , yet the light it self coming to our sight through all these means , or mediums , and not stopping or staying by the way , nor employing some other messenger in its room , to carry the tydings of it to us , it is still immediate , & the light hath a self-evidence , whereby to make it self known , without any other help or instrument , whereby to make it known . and thus god is light , and thus not only the saints knew god to be light , but also divers of the gentiles , who had not the scriptures , knew god to be light ; as plotinus , who said , as we see & know the sun by his own light : so we see and know god by his own light : and pythagoras and plato declared god to be light ; and it was one of pythagora's rules , let none presume to speak or teach of god , without his light , wherein he saw further and better into the true mystery of preaching and teaching , than these blind faith makers at westminster , and new-england preachers , who have espoused that blind and dark thing called their confession of faith. and plato taught , that god created the soul of man in a region of divine light , and then it conversed with the true substance of light , and of every other thing ; but by its sin , it was thrust down into a cave , or dungeon , where it only conversed with shadows and figures , or images of things , which are the things of this outward and perishing world. and this doth well agree with the scripture , that saith , god drove out the man from the garden : and thus the mind of man losing the inward enjoyment of god , the true light , did joyn it self to the perishing things of this world , where it can find no true rest , for they are but figures and shadows ; and the scripture calleth this world a fashion or figure , and scheme , cor. . . and why is christ called the true light , and the true bread in scripture , and the truth , but to signifie unto us , that he is indeed more truly and properly , and satisfyingly the soul 's true light and food , than the outward light and bread is unto the body , or outward man ? and therefore in comparison of god , all created things of heaven and earth , are said to be nothing , and less than nothing , and the nations are as nothing , and less than nothing before him , isa . . . and therefore as the name being , and good doth most properly belong to him , as christ said , there is none good , but god so the names light , life and love , do most properly belong to him , though it is most readily granted , that he doth infinitely surpass and excel all that men can either speak , or think of him , and that he hath a name that none knoweth , but he himself ; but since it hath pleased god to call himself by the name light , speaking unto men in the language of the sons of men ; i say , in the language of men , the name light doth most properly , and without all figure , belong to god and christ , and this the saints in light well knew ; but they who know not the light , and believe not in it , it is no wonder that they think that god or christ is light only by a figure or metaphor , from the outward light : for indeed the animal or natural man , that only followeth his natural thoughts and apprehensions , doth not know god , but by figures and shadows : and though i plead for the immediate revelation of god and christ in the hearts and spirits of his saints , who is their light and life , yet the means are owned and acknowledged in their place , as good men are means , good books , and especially the scriptures are means whereby to transmit the light of god and christ unto us , as he is pleased to make use of them , and not otherwise ; even as the air , or glass of the window , cannot convey any light of the sun unto us but when the sun shineth ; for when the sun withdraweth , and hideth his face , the air and the glass hath no light to convey unto us : and thus it is as to all men , and books , and means , they can convey no light to us , but what , how , and when god , the father of lights , is pleased to send forth through them unto us ; and this david well knew , when he prayed , saying , o send , forth thy light , and thy truth , to lead me and guide me to thy holy hill , and lift up the light of thy countenance upon us , psal . . . psal . . . and as it pleaseth god often , to transmit the beams of his divine light , life and love into our souls , through means and instruments , as good men , and good books , and especially in reading or meditating in the scriptures , and also good angels , who are ministring spirits , and do minister to the heirs of salvation , so many times it pleaseth him to bring them into a solitude , or solitary place , hos . . . and there to speak unto them , and reveal himself , to the unspeakable satisfaction of their souls , without all means whatsoever , save only that great , and always most necessary and desirable mean , the lord jesus christ , in and through whom the father doth always speak , and reveal his glory to his dear children , even as christ declared , saying , no man knoweth the father , but the son , and he to whom the son reveals him . for none of all the prophets or apostles did know , or converse with god , but as the son did reveal him , who is that most lovely and aimable skreen , cloathing or vail , through which the glory of the father shineth forth into our souls , meekly , and gently , and yet most sweetly , according as every one is able to receive . . and they who deny all inward divine revelation of god in his saints , ever since the apostles days , and would wholly exclude the saints from all inward enjoyment of god and christ , in their own immediate light , glory and brightness , may be justly charged with blasphemy against the great love and kindness of god to his people : and such of the priests of new-england , who have blasphemously called the light of god in his people , a stinking vapour from hell ; and do blaspheme against the light of god and christ in all men , in a day of visitation , that is given to lead and bring them unto god , a meer human and natural light , corrupt and dark , as some of them have called it , and as they generally esteem of it . and yet for this their blasphemy , we would not have the magistrate to hang them , or any way to punish them , but our desire , and prayer unto god is for them , if it be his good will , that such of them , who have not out-lived the day of visiation , may find mercy to repent , and believe , and acknowledge the truth they have so long gain-sayed . and whereas these faith-publishers at westminster in old-england , and at cambridge and boston in new-england , do say in their confession , cap. . sect . this communion which the saints have with christ , doth not make them in any wise partakers of the substance of his god-head , and that to affirm it is impious , and blasphemous . it deserveth our serious consideration , and to examin where the impiety and blasphemy lieth , whether at their door who deny it , or theirs who affirm it ? even that the saints are partakers of the substance of his god-head . and first , as to their proof from scripture , they cite col. . , . and he is the head of the body , the church , who is the beginning , the first-born from the dead , that in all things he might have the preheminence ; for it pleased the father , that in him should all fulness dwell . but this place of scripture saith not that the saints are not partakers of the substance of the god-head of christ , but the contrary may be proved from this very place , which calleth him , the head of the body , the church . for as it is the same substance of life , that is in the head , and in the body , and every member of it : so it is the same divine life and spirit , that is in christ , the head , and all his members , and that spirit is the holy spirit , and that life is the word , and the word and the spirit are one substance and being with god , as the same confession saith , cap. . sect . . and that the saints are partakers of the divine nature , and of the holy ghost , the scripture expresly declareth it , pet. . . and heb. . . so that it is marvelous blindness , or inadvertency in these men , so to contradict the express scripture testimony : and for the word substance , with respect to the inward enjoyment of god and christ , the scripture hath it expresly in several places , prov. . . that i may cause those that love me to inherit substance ; and i will fill their treasures . and heb. . . knowing that in your selves ( for so the greek doth bear it ) ye have in heaven a better , and more enduring substance . for as they had it in heaven , so they had an earnest of it on earth , in their hearts ; and that all fulness dwelleth in christ , doth not prove that his saints enjoy none of that fulness , but on the contrary . out of her fulness , as said john , we have all received , and grace for grace , john . . and not only the saints receive gifts and graces from christ , but they receive him , and the father in him , and with him , to live and dwell in them , according to john . . i in them , and thou in me . and yet this doth not infer that the saints are equal with christ , that they have the same spirit and life with him , and through him , and by and from him , as it doth not prove that the foot is equal with the head , because the same soul or spirit that is in the head , is in the foot ; and the same life that is in the root of a tree , is in the branches ; and as christ said , i am the vine , ye are the branches . and if the saints do no wise partake of the substance of the godhead of christ , i ask them , what do they partake of him ? do they partake only of the substance of his manhood without the godhead , or of neither ? if the first , then the manhood of christ , as they partake of it , is without the godhead , which is blasphemy indeed ; or if the second , that is to say , the saints do neither partake of the substance of his godhead , nor of the substance of his manhood , then they partake nothing of christ at all substantially , according to their doctrin . o miserable teachers ! what then do they partake of him , if nothing substantially ? of his accidents , as they commonly say , all graces are nothing but accidents . then here is a new sort of doctrin of transubstantiation , as these of rome say , the consecrated wafer or cake , hath the accidents of bread in it , as the colour , taste and smell of bread , but nothing of the substance of bread is there . so say these faith-makers , the saints that did see , smell , taste and feel of christ in ancient times , that which they did spiritually see , smell , taste and feel with their souls and hearts , is only accidents , and no substance . this is more strange than that other , that there is no substance of bread in the cake , but only the accidents . but why was not your reverend brother , as ye called him , john owen , taxed with blasphemy , for affirming , that the holy ghost doth well in believers really ( and as he worded it personally ) together with his graces . and samuel rutherfold , a great presbyterian , who said in one of his printed epistles , he will have none of the graces of christ without himself , and if the graces did come unto him without christ , he would send them away the gate ( or way ) they came . and as for the other scriptures they cite , they prove indeed that the lord jesus christ is but one , and there is none else , nor is any man , or men , or angels equal to him , which we most cordially believe ; but they say , not in the least , nor by any just consequence , can it be gathered , that the saints do not partake substantially of god. and to shew the great inequality betwixt christ and the saints , not only in the measure and degree but in the manner or kind of partaking of the holy spirit , which is one substance with god. christ , the son , hath god , and the holy spirit , without any middle , or mediator betw●●t the father and him , but the saints only have , and enjoy the father , and the holy spirit , through christ the mediator , and together with him , and in him : and this i hope will satisfie all sober and impartial men , to clear the doctrin of the quakers , that it is according to scripture . . next , as concerning the decrees of god , these faith-publishers say , that god hath unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass , yet so as neither is god the author of sin , nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures : whereby it plainly appeareth , they hold that god hath ordained and decreed all manner of sins and blasphemies , adulteries , thefts , robberies , homicides , regicides , &c. which is abominable and blasphemous doctrin , with a witness . they need not blame the ranters , seeing they are so fully one with them in doctrin ; for that is one of the worst doctrins that the ranters have , that god doth all , and hath unchangeably ordained and decreed all things , both good and bad ; for certainly whatever god hath ordained and decreed to come to pass , he is the doer of it , for he executeth ( that is , bringeth to pass ) all his own decrees , as they confess in their large catechism , ans . to quest . . and that they say , yet so , as god is not the author of sin ; they say it indeed , and so many of the worst sort of ranters , but how they clear their doctrin of so unavoidable consequence , they have not told the world , nor ever can they sufficiently clear it . and for the scriptures they bring , as especially ephes . . . that god worketh all things after the counsel of his own will ; here is nothing mentioned of the sins of men and devils : it is plain both from reason , and scripture , that by all things must needs be understood all his own works , and not the sins of men and devils , which he is not the author of ; as when we say , every wise man doth all things by wisdom , and wise counsel ; none is so foolish as to put this gloss upon it . that he doth all foolish things . it is an approved maxim and rule , verba sunt intelligenda , secundum subjectam materiam , i. e. words are to be understood according to the subject matter . it is worthily granted and acknowledged , that god worketh all good things , all virtue and goodness is of him , all good thoughts , words and works , &c. but all sin is of the devil , and evil men ; as john said , whosoever committeth sin , is of the devil , and the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eye , and the pride of life , is all of the devil , and not of the father . and as christ said , the devil when he speaketh a lye , he speaketh of his own . it is also granted , that when any commit sin , the power whereby they act , is of god ; but when they sin , they abuse that power ; and also whatever sin cometh to pass , is not without god's permission , and that is not a bare permission , but a most holy and wise ordering , and bounding of it to his own glory . and as to acts . . a main place , that ranters , and presbyterian and independent teachers abuse and wrest , ( as they do other scriptures , to their own destruction , if they repent not ) it giveth them no strength at all . for it saith , him ( to wit , christ ) being delivered by the determinate counsel and fore-knowledg of god , ye have taken , &c. so we see , that he was delivered , or exposed unto them by the determinate counsel of god , but that they did kill him by the determinate counsel of god , the scripture saith not . for to deliver is one thing , and to slay is another . our worthy friends that were put to death at boston in new-england , they delivered up their lives freely into the hands of these murtherers , and so did many of the martyrs , not accepting deliverance ; and yet they did not kill themselves , as these bloody persecutors use to alledge . and that it s said , god hardneth whom he will. his hardning , is not the making their hearts hard , with infusing any evil spirit into them , but that he justly with-draws his good spirit from them , for great sins formerly committed , and so leaveth them to harden their own hearts . as it is said , that pharoah hardned his heart . and thus do many sober and judicious protestants understand the words . . again , as concerning election and reprobation , first , as to the election and predestination of the saints unto eternal glory , and happiness , whatever the scripture saith of it , or of any other doctrin , we do readily believe and acknowledge it , as , that god hath chosen the saints in christ jesus before the foundation of the world , that they should be holy and unblamable before him in love , ephes . . . and rom. . . for whom he did fore-know , he also did predestinate , to be conform to the image of his son , &c. and whom he did predestinate , them he called , and whom he called , them he justified . and what christ said to the disciples , ye have not chosen me , but i have chosen you , and appointed you , to bring forth fruit , and that your fruit should remain , joh. . . and john . . herein is love , not that we loved god , but that he loved us , and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins ; and vers . . we love him , because he first loved us . a most sweet and comfortable testimony , as all the other . but we no where find in all the scripture , that god hath reprobated any part of mankind , before the foundation of the world ; nor is it said , that men hate god , because he first hated them ; and because god hated them , he made them , on purpose to damn or destroy them , and decreed and ordained them to sin , that he might take occasion thereby to damn them . no such thing at all is found in the holy scriptures , nor can be gathered from them by any just consequence ; for although it be allowed , that gods purpose and holy will concerning them that finally perish , is from before the foundation of the world ( for there is no new will or purpose in god , the thoughts and counsels of his heart being from everlasting , as himself is ) yet that will of god regardeth and considereth them that shall finally perish , not simply as men , nor yet simply as sinners , either for adam's sin , or other sins that they have formerly committed , before that great sin of final vnbelief and impenitency , but it doth regard and consider them , as having a day of visitation , and a call to repent , and a tender of grace , love and mercy from god the father , and the lord jesus christ , and as having resisted and rejected the same , and hardning their hearts against it , and that finally , until the day of their visitation be over , whereby they declare themselves unworthy of eternal life , and that they are none of christ's sheep , but goats , to be put at the left hand ; and if any say , if these men were not elected before the foundation of the world , it will follow that they were reprobated before it . i answer ; it doth not follow ; for elected and reprobated are not contradictory terms , being both positive , and election signifieth a preference of some before others , but that doth not argue a total reprobation of others , when god did elect some . but at the end of the world , and in the conclusion it is granted , that all who are not elected , are but reprobates , to wit , when all god's elect seed every where , are gathered out , selected and separated from others , as so many grains of pure gold from all the dross , tin and lead that they have been mingled with for a time , here in this world , that then nothing will remain but that which is reprobate , and which the scripture calleth reprobate silver , the pure being wholly separated and selected from the impure , the gold and silver from the dross , the wheat from the tares , the sheep from the goats , and the good fish from the bad , and the children of the kingdom , from the children of the wicked one ; he who hath ears to hear , let him hear , and the wise in heart let them understand , for unto them it is given , but unto others , as christ said , in parables , that seeing they may not see , and hearing that they may not hear , nor understand . and also it is readily granted , that there is a special and peculiar , and singularly gracious care and providence of god , towards all that shall be saved from the beginning of the world to the end , and the number of them is most infallibly known unto god , and every one of that number shall certainly be saved , and none of them shall finally perish , but in the proper season and time shall be graciously visited , called , converted , justified , sanctified , and last of all glorified , and this without any violence done to their rational faculties or free-will ; for god doth well know how to gain and prevail upon the understanding , and will , and inclinations of his people , by such gentle , and yet prevalent and overcoming perswasions and allurements , and motions of his holy spirit of grace , of light and life , as shall infallibly gather them unto himself . and it is also granted , that as god hath provided that grace , whereby some shall certainly be saved , so by the same all are put under a capacity or possibility of salvation : and therefore that any are not saved in this world , is not because of any want , or defect in the sufficiency , or efficacy in the grace in its own nature ; but because of them , whom god in his infinite justice and counsel permits finally to resist it , even as in the parable of the sower , the seed was one and the same in all the four grounds , but the grounds differed one from another , and that one ground was good , was of god , but that others were bad , was of themselves ; and the word election doth properly enough signifie , selection , seperating and setting a part or refining , as when gold or silver is separated in the furnace from the dross . and this separation hath had its various degrees and progress , from first to last , as when gold or silver is purified or purged in the sire seven times , and then in the seventh time , it hath no mixture , but is all pure , or as when liquor is poured from vessel to vessel several times , or as wheat is winnowed again and again , until all the chaff be separated . and in this sense we find the word election used in scripture divers times . isa . . . for the lord will have mercy on jacob , and will yet chuse israel . and isa . . . and he shall chuse thee . and zach. . . and the lord shall yet comfort zion , and shall yet chuse jerusalem . and zach. . . he shall chuse jerusalem again . and isa . . . i have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction . and in this sense of the word , as it signifieth a selecting or separating the pure from the impure , election doth go before reprobation , and is not co-evous with it . but whether that election in christ before the foundation of the world , doth in some sort signifie a selection or setting apart in christ the head , who was before the foundation of the world , and is said to be the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , as some mystick writers affirm , it is not my present business to determine , neither is it necessary at this present occasion . . but the place of scripture which they mainly abuse and wrest , to prove this reprobate doctrin of theirs , of an absolute reprobation of the greatest part of mankind , even before they are born , and that not only babes and sucklings on the mothers breasts , but in the womb are absolute reprobates and cast-aways , and that some , yea , many infants die in a state of reprobation , and perish eternally ( only for adams sin imputed unto them ( as they say , without any knowledge or eonsent of theirs ) and corrupt nature derived into them ) and that all such reprobates never had , or ever shall have any opportunity of saving grace , whereby it was possible to them at any time to be saved . the place of scripture , i say , they mainly abuse and wrest , to favour this evil and pernicious doctrin , is that in rom. . , , . but for the opening and vindicating of this place of scripture , let it be considered , that here is only a preference mentioned of jacob before esau , how that the elder shall serve the younger , but this saith nothing of esau his being absolutely reprobated . the great design of the apostle paul , being to shew that god had chosen the line of jacob before the line of esau , and given unto that line and posterity of jacob , a preference and dignity over the line and posterity of esau , and that the reason of this preference was not any works that they had done , but for some other cause hid in the secret counsel of god ; and this preference did appear , first , in chusing the line and posterity of jacob , to be his church in that peculiar dispensation of the mosaical law , and giving them many prophets , and other excellent men , to be raised up among them , and honouring them with many great and signal appearances , signs and wonders ; whereas the posterity of esau was not so highly favoured , and yet they had a divine dispensation among them , which did suffice unto that present time and state . secondly , in that god did chuse the line of jacob , and his posterity , out of whom christ should be born after the flesh , and also the apostles , and that out of jacob the gospel should go forth and be preached to all the world. dly . that the nation that should come of esau should really become servants , and tributaries to the nation of israel ; and this was fulfilled in david's time , and was also a figure of another thing to be spiritually fulfilled . and therefore this election doth not infer any reprobation of esau , or his posterity , as to their eternal estate , no more than when david said , chron. . , . the lord god of israel chose me before all the house of my father , for he hath chosen judah to be the ruler , and of the house of judah , the house of my father , and of the sons of my father , he liked me to make me king over all israel ; and of all my sons , he hath chosen solomon my son. so here are divers elections ; first , judah out of all the tribes ; secondly , the family of jesse , out of the tribe of judah ; thirdly , david out of all the sons of jesse ; and fourthly , solomon out of all the sons of david , and yet no absolute reprobation of any that were not so chosen , as to their eternal state . and because many of the people of israel were proud , because of this choice and preference that god made of their nation , above the nation of esau , so as to make them a church to himself , when the nation of esau was not so favoured , for reasons best known unto god , and for that cause did conclude , that they were always to remain a people singularly favoured of him above all other people , from first to last . to beat down this vain conceit of theirs , paul telleth them , first , that they are not all israel , which are of israel . secondly , that as god did prefer , and make choice of the nation of israel , to be a gathered people and church unto him , before the nation of esau , and that without any regard to their works , or to the works of their fathers , but for some other hid cause and reason in the depth of gods secret counsel ; so god could as freely , yea , and would prefer the poor gentiles , who were no people , to be a people unto him , and a gospel-church , to become true believers in the lord jesus christ , when in the mean time the bulk and body of the nation of israel should be rejected , and cast off , at least for some time , from having any such dignity and favour ( a remnant only being reserved , according to the election of grace , rom. . . ) and this paul proveth at large , from verse . of that th . chapter , to verse . and doth further prosecute it in the two following chapters . verse . &c. as he saith also in o see , i will call them my people , which are not my people , and her beloved , which was not beloved . and verse . what shall we say then ? that the gentiles which followed not after righteousness , have attained to righteousness , even the righteousness of faith ; but israel , which followed after the law of righteousness , hath not attained to the law of righteousness , because they sought it not by faith , &c. so , we see how paul maketh the parallel , that as god once preferred , or chused jacob's nation , before the nation of esau , so again he preferred and chused the gentiles ( that had no good works to recommend them , and to move god to make that choice ) out of his free mercy , before the people of israel ; and of these gentiles , no doubt , many of them did belong to the posterity of esau , and also of ishmael , yea , of cain ; for there is an express promise made to the remnant of edom , and of all the heathen , upon whom his name is or shall be called , amos . . and it is but a remnant also of israel that is saved , until the fulness of the gentiles come in , and then all israel ( to wit , the true israel , which is not all who are of israel after the flesh ) shall be saved ; see rom. . . and . . , . and lastly , it is to be again considered , that what god spoke unto rebecca , before the children were born , not having done good or evil , did not so much regard the singular persons of jacob and esau , as their posterities , as is clear from gen. . . and the lord said unto her , two nations are in thy womb , and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels ; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people , and the elder shall serve the younger . so we see here , the words are said of the nations of jacob and esau , and not the persons of them ; for we read not any where that ever esau in person served jacob , but only in his posterity , as was fulfilled in david's time , when the edomites became tributaries to the people of israel : nor was it said before the children were born , jacob have i loved , and esau have i hated , as it is commonly alledged , but many hundred years after he was deceased . and if it had been so said , it could not prove an absolute rejection either of esau , or his posterity , as to their eternal state ; for god is said in scripture to hate all evil-doers , and yet many evil-doers repent , and obtain salvation , and therefore hatred doth not signifie absolute and final hatred , either in god or men : for it is said , jacob loved rachel , and hated leah ; that is , he loved rachel more : and christ said , he that hateth not father , and mother for my cause , is not worthy of me ; that is , he that loveth me not more than father and mother . and therefore to conclude , this whole passage in rom. . , . doth not prove the absolute reprobation of either esau , or of his posterity , because many of esau's posterity had a promise of salvation , as is already proved from amos . and if esau had been an absolute reprobate , the scripture would never have said , that isaac by faith blessed jacob and esau concerning things to come , heb. . . and that faith was the substance of things hoped for , and had a regard to the spiritual blessing of esau , and of his posterity ; for though jacob got the first blessing , yet esau got the second , and their two blessings did not differ in substance , but in some weighty circumstances of order and time ; and isaac prophesied in esau's blessing , that he should have the fatness of the earth , and dew of heaven ( the same but the order inverted with jacob's blessing ) and that in process of time he should be a free people , to wit , in gospel days , signified by these words , gen. . . and it shall come to pass , when thou shalt have dominion , to wit , in christ , in gospel days , in thy posterity , that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck . and so we find that divers ( mark . . ) idumeans , that were of esau , followed jesus ; and jacob's putting on esau's goodly rayment , signified how in gospel days , the true believers of jacob , and esau , should become one body of a gospel-church , and in this body they of esau should be as hands , but the voice is jacob's , that is , the word of god , in the preaching of the gospel , should be sounded out of jacob's line , to wit , from the prophets and apostles , who were of jacob. and there is no ground from scripture , that esau , as to his person , was not saved ; yea , luther , and moller , and oecolampadius , all famous protestants in their day , judge rather that he was saved ; and the whole passage of jacob and esau , beside , that it hath its historical fulfilling , is a figure of two inward seeds and births , none of which are reprobated , but the other preferred . but if some alledge heb. . . to prove that absolutely esau was rejected , and did perish , because it s said , he found no place of repentance , though he sought it carefully with tears . i answer , that doth not prove his final rejection , but only that he could not be heard to have that first blessing recalled , which was already given to jacob. . where now shall these men find any place in scripture to prove , that there are any reprobate infants ? or that any infants dying in infancy go to hell , and perish eternally , only for adam's sin , although that sin was forgiven to adam , and thousands more equally guilty , by their own confession ? if they shall alledge , as some do , that place in cor. . . for the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife ( viz. that believeth ) and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband , else were your children unclean , but now are they holy . yet this cannot prove their intention : for they dare not confidently say , that all infants of believing parents are elected , otherwise they must say , that esau was elected , both whose parents were bellevers . although some in church-covenant have gloried , that none of their children , while infants , were reprobates , because they were in covenant , and yet at that same time pleading that esau was a reprobate in his mother's belly , forgetting that both esau's parents were more holy than they . and if any further urge , if there be no reprobate infants , that then all infants are sanctified and holy , both the children of unbelieving parents , as well as of believers . i answer ; it doth not follow by any necessary consequence , although to admit of that consequence , is much more tollerable , than to say , that any infants perish eternally , only for adam's sin. and as for the general state of infants , and how they are particularly disposed of immediately after death , who die in infancy , seemeth a great depth , and is a great mystery , and is best known unto the lord : for it is generally granted , that god hath his way to reach to infants , and deal with them , both in the womb , and upon the mothers breasts ; and therefore let us leave secret things unto god , until he reveal them , and be satisfied with what he hath revealed . now this is plainly revealed , and declared in the scriptures , that the condemnation is not simply that adam sinned , or his posterity in , and with him , but that light is come into the world , and men love darkness more than light : and as by the offence of one , to wit , the first adam , judgment is come upon all to condemnation ; even so by the righteousness on one , to wit , christ the second adam , the free gift is come upon all to justification of life . and tho' men generally are by nature , children of wrath ( if it should be granted or allowed , that by nature , signifieth their natural condition , as they are born into the world ) yet by the great mercy , grace and favour of god , they all have an opportunity or possibility to be converted , and become the children of god. and what that holiness or cleanness is , that the children of one , or both the believing parents have , is a great mystery , i am sure to many who have that scripture place oft in their mouths , and greatly glory in it , that they are in church-covenant , and therefore they are holy , and their children ; also some call it federal or covenant holiness , but what is it they know not , whether it be any real thing , or principle of holiness , lodged or placed in their children , more than in the children of others that are not in their church-covenant , they dare not affirm ; for many , yea , very many children of professed christians of all sorts , when they grow up to youth , are as unholy , and sometimes worse , as the children of unbelievers . but that children generally either of believers , or unbelievers , are actually sanctified from the womb , or in the womb , cannot be proved from scripture , or any observation that we can make . it is recorded as a rare and great thing , that john the baptist was sanctified from the mother's womb , and the like of jeremiah , and so perhaps may be gathered of moses , or some others , but these rare and singular examples , rather prove , that children are not in general , actually and de facto holy from the womb ; and therefore that holiness of children , mentioned cor. . must only signifie some more near capacity in them , than in others , to become actually holy in time to come , and that not of all children after the flesh , but the children of promise , as paul distinguisheth these two sorts of children of the same parents , rom. . . but who are the children of the flesh , and who are the children of the promise ? tho' it be well known unto god from the beginning , yet commonly it is not known unto men , until they discover themselves by their works and fruits . . as concerning the general state of mankind by means of adams fall , what the scripture saith of it , is readily believed and granted , and it is safest in all things , to keep to scripture words , especially in all cases and matters that are in controversie . for the scripture is a rich treasury or store-house , sufficient to afford us words whereby to express our faith in all matters of christian doctrin ; and it is not safe to leave the scripture-words , and go to words of mans wisdom , and thereby to declare our faith of christian doctrin . now the scripture saith that in adam all die , cor. . and rom. . . that by one man sin entred into the world , and death by sin , and so death passed upon all men ; for that all have sinned : and that christ hath died for all men , proveth that all men were dead , as paul argueth the case . and david , though he was the son of a good father , yet bewailed the state wherein he was conceived and born , psal . . . behold i was shapen in iniquity , and in sin did my mother conceive me . and that under moses law , an offering was to be offered up for the mother and the child , ( levit. . , , . ) when it was born , and that the mother should be unclean so many days after the birth of the child , doth certainly signifie a seed , or principle of sin and corruption , to be conveyed from the parents to the children , in the ordinary way of generation , and that the menstruous humour was held in scripture to be such a filthy and unclean thing , which is called , the fountain of her blood , levit. . . hath the same signification ; also , the circumcision of children on the eighth day . and it s said in job . . how can man be justified with god , or how can he be clean , that is born of a woman ? to wit , in the ordinary way of generation . and here the natural state of man is declared , before his spiritual regeneration in christ jesus : and though that was said by bildad , one of job's friends , yet it is confirmed by job himself , chap. . . who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean ? not one . but this seed , or principle of sin and corruption , is not charged or imputed unto men , until they joyn and consent unto it , and actually obey it , as is clear from rom. . . for until the law , sin was in the world , but sin is not imputed when there is no law. now , when is it that there is no law , but in the time of infancy , wherein children are not capable of any law , or of doing good or evil , any more than when in the womb ? for until children begin to have the use and exercise of their reasonable understanding , so as to know the right hand from the left ( according to jonah . . ) they cannot be understood to be under the law. but to say , that any infants are eternally damned for that first sin , and without any actual sin , or transgression of theirs committed in their own body , is expresly contrary to scripture , that saith , the soul that sinneth shall die ; and every one shall receive according to the deeds done in the body , good or evil ; and he that soweth to the flesh , shall reap corruption , as he that soweth to the spirit shall reap incorruption , and life eternal . and therefore none shall finally perish , or be lost , for that first sin , according to scripture , but for their actual disobedience here in this world , and their final unbelief and impenitency . for as concerning the judgment and punishment of the first sin , it was immediately inflicted after the fall , to wit , the death of all in adam . but christ the second adam , by his death , for all that died in adam , doth give unto all his free gift , that cometh upon all unto justification of life ; and thus the plaister is as broad as the sore , and the medicine as universal as the disease ; and it is not simply the sin or disease , but the refusing and rejecting the medicine and physician , that is the cause of any mans final destruction . and how , or in what manner adam's children and posterity were concerned in that first sin , whether only by imputation , as some say , or by real participation , as others say , the wise in heart may easily judge : let it suffice at present , to say , that adam's children , being his branches , and he their root , they do really partake with him both in the defilement , and also in the promised seed , in order to their restoration ; for when god said to adam , in the day thou eatest thereof , thou shalt surely die ; his children and posterity were included . so when god said , i will put enmity between thee ( to wit ; the serpent ) and the woman , and between thy seed and her seed , it shall bruise thy head , and thou shalt bruise his heel : their children and posterity are equally included ; for adam , after his fall , being restored and made an holy root , as is generally acknowledged , as paul declareth , if the root be holy , so are the branches ; and if the first fruit be holy , the lump is also holy . and as god promised unto noah , and to his sons , gen. . . and behold i establish my covenant with you , and with your seed after you . his branches are holy with him , to wit , not actually , but by having a seed , or principle of holiness put in them , derived from christ the second adam , who is that promised seed , whereby they are made capable of becoming holy , by improving the same ; and this is that federal holyness which all the children of adam and noah have , that is , all mankind , which is more encreased or diminished ( but not totally abolished in any ) as the immediate parents are found more or less actually holy ; for the more that any sin , that noble seed and principle of holiness both in them , and in their children , is the more clouded and vailed , every sin that a man committeth , until it be purged and done away , being a vail over that noble seed . and god renewed the promise to abraham , to make him the father of all nations and families of the earth , and that in him they all should be blessed , and in his seed ; not that this should be fulfilled by his being their father , according to the flesh , or in the way of carnal generation ; but through christ , who is the seed of abraham , by whom the blessing and grace of god was to come upon all . ( rom. . , . ) and in this respect abraham is called the father of us all , as it is written , i have made thee a father of many nations , before him whom he believed , god quickening the dead , and calling the things which were not , as though they were ; to wit , the dead in adam , are all in due time quickned by christ , the promised seed of abraham , that they may all become the children of abraham , through faith in christ jesus ; for by virtue of christ's death , and the promise made to adam , noah and abraham , these three general fathers , all adam's posterity , are holy in a scripture sense , not actually , but in capacity to become actually holy , through the holy seed given unto them , and put into them , as they come to close and joyn with it in true faith and obedience : and this doth well answer to peter's vision , whereby all manner of four footed beasts of the earth , and wild beasts , and creeping things , and fowls of the air , which god had cleansed , all nations of adam are understood , acts . , , , . chap. vi. more particularly and largely concerning the way of restoration by jesus christ , his dying for all , and giving unto all sufficiency of grace , and means of salvation , whereby they may be saved . according to the testimony of the holy scriptures , jesus christ is the saviour of all men , but especially of them that believe tim. . . and he is called the saviour of the world , john . . and the saviour of the body , ephes . . . and that he hath dyed for all men , is the express testimony of the holy scriptures in divers places , cor. . , . for the love of christ constraineth us , because we thus judge , that if one dyed for all , then were all dead ; and that he dyed for all , that they which live , should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him which died for them , tim. . , , . god will have all men to be saved , and to come unto the knowledge of the truth ; for there is one god , and one mediator between god and men , the man christ jesus , who gave himself a ransom for all , to be testified in due time , heb. . . that he by the grace of god should taste death for every man , john . . he is the propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. but it is commonly alledged by the adversaries of truth , that by all in these places is understood , not all particulars , but some of all sorts , or all the elect . to this i answer ; the word all must needs be as full and universal , with respect to christs death , and the benefit of it , as it is with respect to adam's fall , because the scripture maketh a plain parallel betwixt all that die in adam , and all that christ died for , as in that fore-cited place , cor. . . if one dyed for all , then all were dead : now if all only signifie some , in the first part of the verse , the sense must run thus , if one dyed for some or a few , then all were dead : this quite maketh void the apostles inference ; for if christ only dyed for some , then only some were dead , and not all . again , in rom. . . the parallel is very plain , as by the offence of one , judgment is come upon all , unto condemnation , even so by the righteousness of one , the free gift is come upon all , unto justification of life ; not that all are actually justified , but the free gift is come upon them , that they may be justified ; and so it is , that the two sides or parts of parallels are of equal extent . beside that , the word ( all ) in scripture doth most commonly signifie all particulars ; and therefore to restrict it , in respect of gods grace and mercy through christ , savours of a narrow spirit , and this narrowness of spirit in presbyterians and independents is a great evil in them , and maketh them so peevish , uncharitable and cruel . . and whereas they object against christ his dying for all men , because he said , he did not pray for the world , and therefore he did not die for the world , john . . i pray for them , i pray not for the world. it may be very well granted , that he dyed not for the world which he doth not pray for : but what world is that ? it is not any part of mankind , as they are considered , when first born into the world , and having had a time to live in the world , and a day of visitation , wherein they might have repented , and have been converted unto god ; but as having finally rejected the great mercy and grace of christ , after many tenders and offers of it , until that the lord hath wholly left striving with him , by his spirit in their hearts , and then they become reprobates , and that world whereof christ spoke when he said , he prayed not for the world. and therefore it ought to be well noted and considered , that when it is said , christ dyed for the sins of the world , it is only with respect to sins past , or any other sins that men may commit before the precise time and period of gods leaving them , and ceasing any more to strive with them , when they are become perfected , so to speak in sin and evil , and are as the ripe tares , fit for burning , having nothing remaining in them of any tenderness , simplicity or sincerity , or true love to god or man ; no grain of goodness or virtue , nay , not the least seed , but are wholly become as dross , after all the precious mettal , to the least grain , is extracted or separated from it ; for such , i say , christ hath neither dyed nor prayed . and thus it may be with many , and is with many before they die ; and concerning these , john declared , saying , there is a sin unto death , i do not say that he shall pray for it , joh. . . and this is that sin of final unbelief and obstinate impenitency , wherein men may be permitted to live , some considerable time , before they die . and this is no contradiction , nor inconsistency , but serveth greatly to clear the understanding of this weighty matter , how christ hath dyed for all men , within a day or time of grace , and yet hath dyed for none of these men , after they have wilfully neglected that day of grace , and resisted the spirit of grace , until he did altogether leave and forsake them . and also it is to be considered , that though christ hath dyed for all men , within a day or time of grace and mercy , beyond which time they have not the benefit of his death , and there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin unto them ; yet he hath not died with the same equal intention and degree of love , kindness and good-will , for them who finally perish , as for them who are saved ; nor are the gracious providences of god , and his dealings both inwardly and outwardly after the same way and manner towards all : and therefore all who shall be saved at the end of the world , have very great and unspeakable cause to praise god , for his more abundant mercy , grace and love towards them in christ jesus , and that he , and not they , did make them to differ from others ; & yet none that perish , can have any just cause to complain against god ; for when that that is sufficient is given to them , they have no cause to complain . but all who are saved , god is pleased at one time or another , that suiteth with his infinite wisdom and good pleasure , so to draw , perswade , move and incline them to come unto him , and when come , so to preserve them with him , and in him , or if at any time he suffer them to depart , infallibly to reclaim them , before the end , that they shall certainly be saved ; and this the lord can well do , so as to put a difference betwixt cattel and cattel , or men and men , without their observation , and so as neither to give unto the one any occasion of presumption , nor unto the other , of despair , and without giving any greater measure of inward grace , ( although he may and oft doth give a greater measure to one than to another ; for he is free to give of his own , as he pleaseth ) but only by suitable providences and dispensations , and means of his own chusing ; the one may be taken , and the other left , the one gained and saved , and the other not , the inward grace being the same , both in kind and degree , in some that are saved , and in some that are not , as the parable of the pounds and marks plainly declare , every servant had his pound or mark , which is an equal sum , and some improved it , and some not . and of this more abundant love of god towards paul , he himself taketh special notice , with great thanksgiving unto god , tim. . , . and the grace of our lord was exceeding abundant , with faith and love , which is in christ jesus — howbeit , for this cause i obtained mercy , that in me first jesus christ might shew forth all long-suffering , for a pattern to them ; which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting . and the like notice he taketh of the great love of god towards the believing ephesians and thessalonians , for his chusing them , and so for all other believers of all other churches and people , that god had chosen them from the beginning ; and for this , he said , he laboured , and endured all things , even for the sake of the elect , that they might be saved , tim. . . and as it is the great work and end of all faithful ministers , to gather gods elect , every where scattered , so of the angels , mat. . . and so also of christ jesus according to john . . cap. . , , . isa . . , , , . rom. . . and thus we find a great difference betwixt some that were invited to come to the supper , who when they refused , were no more called , but sentence passed against them , that they should not taste of the supper , and others that were compelled to come in , luke . , . not by using any violent compulsion , but by infallible perswasions and motions of his spirit of love and grace , that shall infallibly prevail with them . nor doth this give to any man the least occasion either to presume or despair , as by saying , either i am elected , or not ; if not elected , i cannot be saved , for that doth not follow ; and yet it is most true , that either a man shall be saved , or he shall not , being contradictory propositions , whereof the one is always true , and the other not . but this doth not infer , that he who shall not be saved , could not be saved . and seeing no man certainly knoweth , that he shall not , before he discover it by his final impenitency , therefore it is the wisdom of every man to improve , with all diligence , that inward grace , and all outward means and helps afforded him , the which if he do , according to his ability , he shall infallibly be saved . and though it is most true , that there is a certain number elected in christ jesus , the elect head and foundation , and corner stone , living and precious , that is infallibly known unto god , which make up a compleat , intire and perfect body ; yet seeing none knoweth that great mystery , who is in any danger to abuse it , it is great folly for any man to presume , that he is safe , or upon a bare supposition , which can infer no positive conclusion , to resolve to be in any respect negligent : and he that by the grace of god , doth know both his calling and election , that knowledge hath its proper tendency to make him the more diligent , to abound in all due obedience and thankfulness , which is the only way to retain the knowledge of it , after it is once obtained : and the said above-mentioned dilemma is as idle and foolish , as who would argue , i shall live for a month or year to come , or i shall not ; if i shall not , i need take no care to save my life , seeing i shall die ; if i shall , i need take no care , for without taking care i shall live ; for seeing both these parts of the argument are but hypothetical , they can infer no positive conclusion . but as to a mans salvation , the only safe and sure way of arguing is this , if i use the grace and means that god hath given me , i shall infallibly be saved ; and if i do not use them , i have no ground to expect that i shall , and therefore let me with all diligence that is possible make use of them . but the doctrin of absolute reprobation , that maketh salvation , or the effectual use of the means absolutely impossible to many thousands , yea , as they say , to the greatest part of mankind , is a most woful and miserable discouragement unto people . . the lord jesus christ , by means of his death , hath procured unto all men , both jews , and gentiles , as the fruit and effect of his death , an inward principle of divine grace , light , life and power , that is the free gift of god unto them , in the hearts of all men , together with subordinate and concurring outward means and helps , more or less , but sufficient unto all men , whereby they may be saved one time or another , before the end of the world ; and the ordinary outward means of salvation is the preaching of the gospel of our lord jesus christ , even jesus of nazareth , that was crucified for our sins , and rose again for our justification , by qualified men ; or failing of them , by reading , or hearing read the holy scriptures , by which , after a sort , the prophets & apostles preach unto all men ; or failing of these outward means , god supplying them by his inward teachings and revelations in mens hearts , and some other secret ways and manners of his divine providences , dealings and dispensations unknown to most men : for the proof of the first part , see rom. . . therefore as by the offence of one , judgment came upon all men , to condemnation ; even so by the righteousness of one , the free gift is come upon all men unto justification of life : the which righteousness of one , is the active and passive obedience of our lord jesus christ , by which the free gift is come upon all . the which free gift is called grace , and the gift of righteousness , and is expressed in this chapter by four sundry greek words in the greek text , as charis , charisma , dorea dorema , all very significant ; see further john . . he was that true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. and he is called , the light of men , john . . and john . . i am the light of the world , he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness , but shall have the light of life . and tit. . , . for the grace of god that bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men , teaching us to deny vngodliness , &c. and verse . looking for that blessed hope , and the glorious appearing of that great god , and our saviour jesus christ . ephes . . . that the gentiles should be fellow . heirs , and of the same body , and partakers of his promise in christ , by the gospel . col. . , . the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations , but now is made manifest to his saints , to whom god would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery in the gentiles , which is christ in you , the hope of glory . and rom. . . the word is nigh thee , in thy mouth , and in thy heart ; and that is the word of faith which we preach . and verse , . he understandeth it of christ , which moses preached in the people of israel , deut. . . and because this great mystery , which was in the gentiles , was much hid in the time of the law , and in all ages of the world , until christ came in the flesh both in jews and gentiles , as paul called it , the mystery hid from ages and generations ; therefore the psalmist , psal . . . prayeth , saying , that thy way may be known upon earth , thy saving health ( or thy jesus , hebr ) in all nations . for he saw that it was in them , but as it were hid , and vailed , according to the weakness and darkness of that dispensation ; and therefore he prayed unto god , that it might be made known ; and therefore as the grace or gift of christ is in all men , so he , who is the fountain and root of it , from whom his grace cannot be separate , is in all men , to save them , within a day of visitation , or salvation ; for christ is in all men but reprobates , according to cor. . . and none are reprobates , until christ have left them , and given them up to final impenitency and hardness of heart . and for a proof of the second part , see cor. . . for after that , in the wisdom of god , the world by wisdom knew not god ; it pleased god by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe : see further , verse , , , . and rom. . . john . . . and because of this universal grace and love of god to all men , and that christ is freely given of the father to be a saviour unto all men ; therefore christ hath commanded that his gospel should be preached unto all nations , without exception of any ; and did also prophecy and fore-tell , that the gospel of the kingdom should be preached in all the world , for a witness unto all nations , before the end of the world ; and because he , who cannot lie , hath said it , we are bound to believe , it shall be fulfilled , that so all mankind may be accountable to the man christ jesus , at the day of judgment , either to be rewarded , or punished by him , as they shall be found having obeyed , or disobeyed his glorious gospel , that hath been preached unto them , both inwardly and outwardly unto many , if not unto all , but inwardly , to be sure unto all . . this divine grace of our lord jesus christ , in the hearts of all men , hath had its various dispensations and manifestations , according to the several ages of the world , and the several states and conditions of men in it , both among jews , gentiles and christians ; and especially both in the gentiles , and in the body of the jews and people of israel ( excepting the prophets , and others peculiarly favoured of god ) the principle it self was but little made known , or revealed , in respect of the great worth of it , and the great virtue , power and glory that was in it , god in his infinite wisdom reserving the more full discovery and revelation of it to the time after christ his coming in the flesh , and death , resurrection , and ascension ; yet so much was discovered of it , and so much good fruit it brought forth , in the true lovers and improvers of it , as by means whereof , they were accepted of god in that day through christ jesus . . whoever were perfectly justified , and saved in any place or family of the world , or nation , people , or faculty , they were saved only and alone by the lord jesus christ of nazareth , even the man christ jesus , who dyed for them , & rose again ; for there is no other name given under heaven , whereby men can be saved , but by that name , to wit , by the lord jesus christ of nazareth , who was crucified and raised again , acts . , , . but here some will readily object , how could any of the gentiles be justified or saved by the man christ jesus , and by virtue of his death and resurrection , who never heard of him , & never had the mystery of it revealed unto them , & consequently had not faith in christ crucified , and risen again ? and upon this head the adversaries of truth , both presbyterian , independent and baptist teachers , have taken great occasion , to cry out against the people , called in scorn quakers , that their religion is only paganism , and not christianity , because they say , that heathens or pagans can be saved by their giving obedience to the light within them , without having christ crucified , and raised again , outwardly preached unto them . but these adversaries of truth little consider what hypocrites they discover themselves to be , in this very charge , when they make that a crime in others , which they judge no crime in themselves ; for they themselves hold , that there are not only elect infants , dying in infancy , who are regenerated , and saved by christ through the spirit , who worketh when , where , and how he pleaseth ; but other elect persons , regenerated and saved by christ , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word ; citing luke . , . john . , . john . . john . . see cap. . sect. . of the westminster-confession , owned by the new-england churches , and printed by them at boston . and what they say of infants , and other elect persons , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , that they are regenerated , and saved by christ through the spirit , who worketh when , where , and how he pleaseth ; the same , these called quakers say , concerning the honest and faithful gentiles , who were obedient to the light of christ in them , and were not outwardly called by the word , or by outward preaching ; yea , and were uncapable of being outwardly called , when living in such remote places and ages of the world , where the outward preaching never came within their reach . for as a deaf man is uncapable of hearing a mans voice , so is a man that hath his hearing ( to wit , the faculty or sense of hearing ) uncapable of hearing the voice of a man , that is at a greater distance than his hearing can reach it . and seeing they plainly confess , that there are such elect persons in the world , not only infants , but these come to age , who are regenerated , and saved by christ through the spirit , who worketh when , where , and how he pleaseth , as their words are , ( and the words are true , and a good use can be made of them against themselves , who have confessed them ) then let them forever be ashamed to cry out any more against the honest people , called quakers , for saying , these honest gentiles , who have not heard of christ outwardly preached unto them , belonging to god's election , are saved by christ , and regenerated through the spirit of christ . and if the spirit work when , where , and how he pleaseth , to wit , both in infants , and persons at age , who are not outwardly called by the word , or uncapable of being so called , then let them recal and condemn their false doctrin , that saith , god hath committed his counsel wholly to writing ; and the former ways of god's revealing his will unto his people are now ceased , and there is no new revelation : as they have expresly , and without any reserve or exception , affirmed , cap. . sect . . and sect . . for if god hath committed his counsel wholly to writing , then nothing of his counsel is extant , where that writing is not extant . and if all divine revelation be ceased , then neither infants , nor other persons , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , have any divine revelation , or inward call by the spirit : or if infants , and other persons belonging to god's election , be inwardly called , and renewed by the spirit , then god hath not committed his counsel wholly to writing , nor are all the ways of god's revealing his will to men ceased : for by their own confession , it is revealed to all elect persons , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , the spirit working in them , when , where , and how he pleaseth . . but whether any are , or can be saved or justified , without the express knowledge and faith of christ crucified , and risen again , is one question ; and whether without all outward hearing of christ crucified , outwardly preached unto them , is another question : for without all outward preaching of men , the mystery of christ crucified can be revealed , and preached inwardly to men by the spirit of god , and by the same spirit , faith can be wrought in them by that inward hearing , as these men confess . and though it may seem hard and difficult , to prove that all honest gentiles , who did by nature ( to wit , by the principle of the divine nature implanted into the true nature of men ) the things contained in the law , had that express knowledge and faith of christ crucified , and raised again ; yet it is more hard and difficult unto them , who affirm they had it not , to prove it , seeing the spirit , who worketh when , and where , and how he pleaseth , might reveal it unto them ; and that they grant , the spirit doth work in all elect persons , who are not outwardly called by the word , and doth regenerate and save them by christ. and to the further clearing of this matter we are to consider , that the work of salvation is not a thing that is commonly done in an instant , but hath its gradual steps , its beginning , progress and finishing , even as faith it self hath ; for as at the first instant of a man's sincere believing , he is en●●ed into a state of salvation , so as his faith groweth , his salvation doth gradually encrease and grow with it , the which salvation is not only a salvation from wrath to come , or from hell fire and torment , but is a salvation from sin , and from under the power of darkness , and from all ignorance , and error , and darkness of understanding , and a thorow renewing into the image of god , and bringing man into conformity unto the image of the son of god , the heavenly and second adam : and the true knowledge of christ , and of god the father , being a part of the image of god , that is to be renewed in them that are to be saved , according to col. . . and have put on the new man , which is renewed in knowledge , after the image of him that created him . therefore it doth necessarily follow , that perfect salvation , in the full extent of it , cannot be had without the full and perfect knowledge of christ , the which full and perfect knowledge of christ , is to know him , both as he is that eternal word , and son of god , the only begotten of the father , who was with the father before the world was , by whom all things were made , and as he is god manifest in the flesh , justified in the spirit , &c. to wit , christ crucified and raised , which paul calleth the great mystery of godliness : and that both salvation and faith is gradual , and hath its steps and progress , beginning , growth and perfection , is very clear , both from the scriptures testimony , and the saints experience ▪ for paul writing to the believing philippians , exhorted them to work out their salvation with fear and trembling , philip. . so , though they were entred into a state of salvation , through faith in christ , yet it was not perfected in them , but was to be further wrought out ; and to encourage them in this great work , he told them , it was god which worketh in them , both to will and to do of his own good pleasure . and paul encouraged the believing romans , and also himself , saying , now is our salvation nearer than when we believed , rom. . . and the perfect salvation of souls is called the end of faith , pet. . . and verse . of which salvation the prophets have enquired , and searched diligently , who prophecyed of the grace that should come unto you . verse . searching what , or what manner of time the spirit of christ , which was in them did signifie , when it testified before-hand the sufferings of christ , and the glory that should follow . and verse . wherefore gird up the loins of your mind , be sober , and hope to the end , for the grace that is to be brought unto you in the revelation of jesus christ ( so the greek hath , viz. enapokalepsei ) and philip. . . being confident of this very thing , that he which hath begun a good work in you , will perform it unto the day of jesus christ . and as the work of the outward creation , is distinguished into six days , and that a day of sabbath , or rest , which is the perfection : so the work of the inward creation , which is the creating men anew in christ jesus , by way of analogy , may be said to have its six days , and then the spiritual sabbath , or rest , according to heb. . . there remaineth therefore a sabbath to the people of god. and verse . for he that is entred into his rest , hath ceased from his own works , as god did from his . and verse . let us labour therefore to enter into that rest , &c. where its plain , the writer doth hint at the said analogy . now though it ought to be granted , that the knowledge and faith of christ crucified and raised again , doth belong to the finishing and perfecting of the saints salvation , yet it is most clear and plain from scripture , that it doth not universally belong to the beginning of it . for we can prove most clearly from scripture , that the good work of god , even the work of salvation was begun in them , who had not that knowledge and faith of christ crucified ; as first , to instance in nathaniel , of whom christ gave a noble testimony , behold an israelite indeed , in whom is no guile , john . . and yet at that time he had not faith in jesus of nazareth , as being come in the flesh , but reasoned or questioned , saying , can any good thing come out of nazareth ? philip saith unto him , come and see , &c. next , to instance in the disciples of christ , who for sometime , after they had followed him , and that peter had confessed to him , that he was the son of god , and that christ had told him , his father had revealed it to him ; yet the mystery of his death and resurrection was for all that hid from him , and the rest of them : for this , see mark . . for he taught his disciples , and said unto them , the son of man is delivered into the hands of men , and they shall kill him , and after that he is killed , he shall rise the third day . and verse . but they understood not that saying , and were afraid to ask him . see again , luke . . but that instance of cornelius is a most manifest and clear demonstration of this truth : for this cornelius was a gentile , and uncircumcised , and therefore no proselite of the covenant to be sure ; and though some alledge , that he was a proselite of the gate ( according to that distinction that was among the jews of a two fold sort of proselites , one of the covenant , that received circumcision and the law , another of the gate , that did not receive circumcision ) yet this is but barely alledged without all proof . but if he was a proselite of the gate , it is certain at that time , when the angel was sent unto him , he had no express knowledge , nor faith of christ crucified , for that was the thing , which peter was sent to preach unto him , by hearing of which he was to receive the holy ghost , and be saved ; for the angel told him , that peter should speak words to him , by which he and all his house should be saved ; see acts . . now altho' at that time , when the angel appeared unto him , cornelius had no knowledge nor faith of christ crucified , yet he was in a good estate ; and well were it for many called christians , that they were in as good estate as he then was in : when the angel appeared to him , he told him , that his prayers , and his alms were come up for a memorial before god , acts . . and it is said of him , verse . he was a devout man , and one that feared god , with all his house , which gave much alms to the people , and prayed unto god alway . and with respect to this , peter began his preaching , saying , acts . , . of a truth , i perceive that god is no respecter of persons , but in every nation he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness , is accepted of him . now who dare be so bold to say , cornelius at this time had no real and true beginning of salvation , or of saving grace and faith , before peter did preach christ crucified & raised again unto him ? for although cornelius had not at that time faith in christ crucified , yet he had ( without all question ) faith in god , and in the word of god that was in his heart , and that word was christ in him , though the mystery of christ was not fully revealed unto him at that time , and in that state he was accepted of god , & yet not for his works sake , but for christ . and therefore , men may have a beginning of true faith , and of a true work of salvation begun in them , when the mystery of christ crucified , and raised again , is not revealed unto them . for that mystery ( being so great as it is ) was not in that day , to wit , before christ came and suffered in the flesh , preached , as one of the first and most necessary things to be first known and believed , as without the faith and knowledge of which no man could be in any degree blessed , otherwise , when christ began to preach , he would have preached it as one of the first things ; and when he sent his disciples to preach the gospel , before he suffered death , he would have given them an express commission to preach it to all people , how he was to be crucified , and raised again the third day , but the mystery of it at that time they knew not , and therefore could not preach it then : nor did he preach it himself , when he began his ministry , nor for a considerable time afterward● until the time drew near that he was to suffer . in all that excellent sermon of his on the mount , not one title or word doth he mention of his death and resurrection expresly , but he taught the law and the prophets , and expounded the spirituality of the law , in its extent , far beyond the reach and conception which the people had of it at that time , and withal dropped some evangelical precepts unto them , and taught them the right way of prayers , fasting and alms , and pronounced them blessed , that hungred and thirsted after righteousness , and were poor in spirit , that were merciful , that were meek , and peace-makers , and that mourned , &c. and suffered for righteousness sake . and therefore it may be very safely concluded , that the express knowledge and faith of christ crucified , is not of absolute and indispensible necessity ( especially where it hath not been preached , nor revealed ) unto the beginning of a man's salvation , although it is really of absolute and indispensible necessity unto the finishing and perfecting of it , because , as hath been already said , our inward renewing unto god , when perfected , in us , is a renewing us perfectly , and not in part only , into the image of god ; and a part of that perfect image , is the perfect knowledge of god , and of jesus christ , whom to know is life eternal ; and that perfect knowledge requireth men to know him , as he came in the flesh , and died , and rose again , which is that great mystery of godliness , as paul called it , tim. . . but if these men , who own that said confession of faith , enquire , whether all these honest gentiles that lived in the world , or do now live in the world , who have not had christ crucified , outwardly preached unto them , but were diligent to frame their lives , according to the light that was in them , died in a state of salvation ? i say , yea , they did ; and this i may the rather say , according to their own doctrin . for what if they had not the perfect knowledge and faith of christ crucified , when they lived ? yet they might have it at their death , to wit , in the passing through the valley of the shadow of death , according to psal . . . even when they are not able to demonstrate unto the living , what is then revealed unto them ? and as it is in job . , , . when a mans soul draweth near unto the grave , and his life to the destroyers , there may be a messenger with him , an interpreter , one of a thousand , to show unto man his vprightness , then he is gracious unto him , and saith , deliver him from going down to the pit ; i have found a ransom , or attonement ; see the hebr. or margin of the english bible . or if i should say , they receive this perfect knowledge of christ after death , it is according to your doctrin , who say , the souls of the righteous ( generally or universally ) after death ( note , after death ) being then made perfect in holiness , are received into the highest heavens , &c. these are the express words of your catechism , cap. . sect . . but when , and how , or at what precise time these honest gentiles , who used their greatest diligence to frame their lives according to the light that is in them , and yet have not had the death , and resurrection of christ outwardly preached unto them , when they then lived in the world , is not my present business to determine : it doth suffice , that i have demonstrated from scripture , that men have been in a state of salvation , and acceptance with god , who have not had the mystery of christ , his death and resurrection , made known unto them ; and surely , these men continuing faithful to what they had received , when they died , could not perish . for it is impossible that any man , who hath the work of salvation really begun in him , though but as a child in knowledge , that holdeth fast the beginning of his confidence firm unto the end , can perish , heb. . . . and as concerning the diversity of the dispensations of the divine grace given unto men , in the several ages and places of the world , according to the several states and capacities of men in the world , the scriptures testimony is very plain and clear , which declareth both of the manifold grace , and manifold wisdom of god , pet. . . ephes . . and ephes . . . paul mentioneth the dispensation of the fulness of time , as being the greatest , wi●h respect to the fore-going dispensations , before that fulness of time came ; and they may be distinguished , as paul doth distinguish them very plainly into three , to wit , diversity of operations , but one god ; and diversity of administrations , but one lord ; and diversity of gifts , but one spirit , cor. . , , . the operations belonging to the law , as inwardly dispensed , the administrations to the prophets , and to christ's coming in the flesh , and to the apostles , their preaching , both before and after christ was crucified , and rose again , and afterwards the gifts to the holy spirit , as they were the effect , and fruit of the apostles preaching , and the end of it : and according to the scripture , the first is that divine dispensation proper to men , as children , in the knowledge of god , and in virtue ; the second , to that which is proper to men , as in youth , or middle age ; the third as proper to men of full , or ripe age. and each of these dispensations may be said to have their proper and peculiar inward baptism , or spiritual washing ; the first being the baptism of the father ; the second being the baptism both of the father , and of the son ; the third being the baptism of the father , the son , and the holy ghost , which christ commanded his disciples to administer , after he rose from the dead , and gave the holy ghost , matth. . . which is not to be so understood , as if the three , to wit , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , did not work together in all these three dispensations ; for certainly they did ; but because in the first dispensation , god only was known as creator , and father of all mankind ; in the second , both the father and the son were known ▪ and in the third , the father , the son , and the holy ghost are known , and the mystery of the three , and of the more abundant divine grace that accompanieth this knowledge , largely opened and revealed . and though i say the first belonged to the law , as inwardly dispensed , yet that very dispensation of the law was not meerly legal , but had grace and mercy mixed with it : for no dispensation , without the grace and mercy of god , could have been in any respect serviceable unto men ; therefore the law , both as outwardly and inwardly administred , had always some measure of divine grace mixed with it ; and therefore in the second commandment , the substance of all the ten commandments , being commonly acknowledged to have been delivered by god himself to the gentiles , who had not the written law , god did reveal himself to be a gracious and merciful god , visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children , unto the third and fourth generation , but shewing mercy to thousands of them that love him , and keep his commandments . and as i have already proved from the express testimony of the holy scripture , by the obedience of one , to wit , the lord jesus , who dyed for all , the free gift and grace of god is come upon all unto justification of life , rom. . . and christ himself is the mystery hid in the gentiles , being that word of faith which moses preached in the jews , and paul in the romans , chap. . . and since it is so , that christ is really that light that doth lighten the gentiles , and is light in them , who have not heard him outwardly preached unto them , it is no less than real blasphemy ( though pardonable upon repentance ) to say , as the presbyterian and independent teachers of both old and new-england have said in their confession of faith , that the light in men , ( which they call , the light of nature ) that doth so far manifest the goodness , wisdom and power of god , as to leave men inexcusable , yet is not sufficient to give that knowledge of god , which is necessary unto salvation ; as they expresly affirm cap. . sect . . and cap. . sect . . they say expresly , men not professing the christian religion ( to wit , the faith of christ's death and resurrection ) cannot be saved , be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light that is in them ; which here again they call the light of nature . and as for the expression , the light of nature , it may be safely enough owned ( in a true scripture sense ) though not in the sense of them , who do so call it . for as christ is called the light of men in scripture , ( john . . in him was life , and the life was the light of men ) so he may be very well called the light of nature , to wit , lightning the dark nature of man ; and not only so , but quickning and sanctifying nature in all men , who joyn thereunto , and the word of god in the heart , james calleth it , ton emphuton logon , the innate word , i. e. put into the nature of men , which is able to save their souls . but the presbyterian and independent teachers of old and new-england , by the light of nature , mean only that it is some natural faculty of man's soul , as to say , his natural understanding , or his natural mind & conscience : and according to them , there is no other light , or principle of knowledge or virtue in man , generally and universally , nay , not in any who profess not the christian religion , though ever so diligent to frame their lives according to the light that is in them , as they expresly affirm ; and yet in manifest contradiction to their own doctrin , they have confessed , that persons elected , are saved by christ , and regenerated through the spirit , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , cap. . sect . . . but that light that is in men generally ( within their day of visitation ) is not any natural faculty of man's soul , as to say his natural understanding or conscience is manifest ; st because they do confess , that man by his fall is become dead in sin , and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body ; and indeed so he is , and his understanding is so darkned naturally , that he is called darkness ; and therefore he hath not any light that is left in him , as some call it the reliques of light left in him since the fall ; for if he did fall wholly , then no light was left in him , nor virtue , nor goodness , as they confess , cap. . sect . . that man is altogether averse from good . dly , they confess , that all sin is a transgression of the righteous law of god , cap. . sect . . and therefore the gentiles , who have not the law outwardly delivered unto them , seeing they are sinners , do transgress against the righteous law of god ; now where is this righteous law , but in their hearts ? and this righteous law cannot be any natural faculty of fallen man , which they confess is wholly defiled and corrupted , and unholy , and unrighteous . dly , they confess , that it is sufficient to leave men unexcusable , sect . . cap. . and therefore it is also sufficient to make men excusable , who are diligent to frame their life according to it ; and to say the contrary , is to contradict the very instinct of common justice that god hath put into mens hearts . thly , the scripture saith , that some of the gentiles their thoughts did excuse them in well doing , as it did accuse them in evil doing , rom. . . thly , the apostle paul doth plainly distinguish it from the conscience , rom. . . the true translation being , their conscience co-witnessing or bearing a joynt witness with that righteous law or principle . thly , he calleth it the truth , and that which may be known of god , which god hath shewed unto them , which gave them the knowledge of god , and shewed them the goodness of god that leadeth to repentance ; and also gave them to know the judgment of god , and revealed the wrath of god from heaven against them : and because that many of them , who knew god , did not glorifie him as god , nor were thankful , therefore god gave them over to a reprobate mind ; and therefore they were not reprobates from the beginning , far less from all eternity , as these men alledg . and therefore any light or illumination that these gentiles had in them , or that any men have in them , is a new gift and grace of god , and gracious visitation of god unto them , as the apostle calleth it , rom. . . moreover , that god himself doth inwardly speak to men generally in their hearts , both in good men and bad , and is their teacher , and doth warn them , yea , and fore-warn them of evil and wrath to come , and doth reprove and convince them of sin , is the testimony of the holy scripture in many places ; see psal . . . psal . . , , to . amos . . micah . . prov. . , , , . job . . chap. . . and . . and it is a place greatly worth noticing , luke . . god said unto him , thou fool , this night thy soul shall be required of thee . and where did god say thus to him , but in his heart ? and therefore it hath been the way of god , and ever will be to speak to men in their hearts , to call them , and warn , and fore-warn them of evil and danger , and to perswade and incline them to that which is good : and they who deny this , as they belye god , and say , it is not the lord that speaketh , and calleth to men in their hearts ; so they do a great injury and wrong unto men , who instead of turning them to god's teachings in their hearts , turn them away from them ; and they do ill deserve so great wages of the people , so to turn away the ears of the people from god's inward teachings in their hearts , and from the word of his grace , which is able to save their souls . and to conclude , although the dispensations of the divine grace be various , and may be variously distinguished into a more or less number , yet god and christ , and the holy spirit are one , and the one author of all these various dispensations ; and who-ever is faithful unto god in any of them , is accepted in christ , and for christ's sake , and not otherwise . and though the last , which is the pure and perfect christian and gospel dispensation , is far more excellent , and far surpassing either that among the gentiles , who had not the outward law , or that among the jews and people of israel , who had the outward law , and the prophets , yet every one of them had their glory in their day , and that inward divine dispensation that is now among the gentiles , who have not christ as yet outwardly preached unto them , hath its glory and great service and blessing to them who are faithful to god in it ; and such who continue faithful therein to the end , shall never perish ; and though it be not purely and throughly christian and evangelical , but rather more legal , yet it is also partly christian and evangelical , and the pure gospel dispensation is hid within it , as a wheel within a wheel , or as the most holy place was hid within the outer court , and there , to wit , in that first dispensation , christ , as it were , lieth as in swadling cloathes : and though the jews do not know him as he is there , yet such as the wise men from the east , do both know and honour him , as the king of the jews , yea , as king and lord , both of heaven and earth , who is in all , and through all , and over all , blessed forever , amen . chap. vii . concerning justification , and the nature of true faith , whether assurance is of the nature of it . . when the scripture saith , god justifieth the vngodly , rom. . . it is not to be understood that he doth justifie them in their ungodliness , but from it ; as the like manner of speech is used , acts . . and by him all that believe , are justified from all things , from which ye could not be justified by the law of moses . for seeing , according to the law of god , he that justifieth the wicked is an abomination to the lord , prov. . . god himself can do no such thing , as to justifie a wicked or ungodly man in his ungodliness . . as it is only the true believer , who hath faith in christ jesus , whom god justifieth ; so it is only he who is truly sanctified , and regenerated or born again of the spirit of god , whom god doth justifie , who are called the seed of israel , isa . . . in the lord shall all the seed of israel be justified , and shall glory . for as a rich man , when he dyeth , by his will or testament , leaveth his goods or riches not to strangers , but to his own kindred , as his brethern , or children , and to his wife ; so our lord jesus christ hath left by his will and testament , when he dyed , his spiritual goods , to wit , remission of sin , justification , adoption , and eternal life , only to his true spiritual kindred , to wit , his brethren , who are born from above , and spiritually related unto him , who are the true children of god , by spiritual regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost , and who are his true church , and body , and of his flesh and bones , according to ephes . . . . and therefore not only faith , but true inward sanctification , and a thorow inward renewing into the image of god , and conformity of the whole man , unto the image of the son of god , is a condition and qualification necessarily required , in order unto mens being perfectly justified in the sight of god ; and as no man is justified , but who is sanctified , so no man is any more , or further justified than he is sanctified . . according unto which , god doth justifie men , not only by faith in christ , but by a real inward righteousness or holiness , which he doth beget in them by his holy spirit , and not only faith , but love , hope , true righteousness , and holiness , meekness , temperance and humility , and all other evangelical virtues , and fruits of the holy spirit , are the instruments and means whereby men obtain free justification through christ jesus , and whereby they are enabled , and fitted or qualified to apply christ jesus , and his righteousness unto them , so as to have the same imputed unto them , and made theirs , to wit , christ , and all his spiritual blessings , gifts and benefits , and his death , and sufferings , and obedience , with all the blessed effects and fruits of it . for as a line that is straight cannot be applyed unto another line that is crooked , but unto a line that is straight ; so cannot the lord jesus christ , who is the righteousness of god , be applyed unto men for justification , unless these men be made righteous , as he is in likeness , or conformity unto him , although not equal unto him : and therefore john did seasonably give the warning and caution , fore-seeing that many would claim to be righteous , or justified , when they were not really doers or workers of righteousness , john . . little children , let no man deceive you ; he that doth righteousness , is righteous , even as he is righteous . and the same john said , rev. . . blessed are they that do his commandments , that they may have right to the tree of life , &c. which is equivalent to their being justified , seeing justification doth include in its nature , a right , or interest in christ , who is that tree of life . . it is therefore a gross error , and a false and antichristian doctrin , in these faith-publishers at westminster , espoused by the presbyterians and independant teachers in new-england , that god doth justifie men , not by infusing righteousness into them , but by pardoning their sins , and accepting them as righteous , &c. cap. . sect . , . and also , that , they say , faith receiving and resting on christ , and his righteousness , is the alone instrument of justification , is another great error . for as faith may well be compared to one hand of the soul , whereby it receiveth and embraceth the lord jesus christ ; so love , which is an inward evangelical grace and virtue , that is shed abroad or infused into the soul , by the holy ghost , may be compared to another hand and arm , whereby it doth receive and embrace him . and all the inward evangelical divine virtues and graces that are wrought and begot in the soul , by the holy spirit of christ , are , so to speak , as a whole intire body , consisting of many members , whereby the soul doth embrace and cleave unto the lord jesus christ ; and thus a perfect union cometh to be witnessed betwixt the faithful soul , and the lord jesus christ , when it is joined unto him , receiveth him , and cleaveth unto him , not by one single grace or virtue , called faith , but by all other divine graces and virtues , which make up a whole intire body , having many members and joynts , whereby the soul cleaveth to him , as one streight line is joyned to another , or as one streight body to another , not in part only , but in all parts . and thus also doth the lord jesus christ embrace the whole soul in all its spiritual and divine powers and virtues , that he hath freely conferred upon it : and hence it is , that true believers are said to put on the lord jesus christ , as a man putteth on a garment . now he that putteth on a compleat or intire garment , every part of his body cleaveth to it ; even so the soul that putteth on christ , cleaveth to him by all its spiritual members , which are the divine evangelical virtues , wrought in it by the holy spirit of christ , even as the sins and evil lusts are called the members on earth , col. . . . but though real inward holiness and righteousness , as well as faith , be the instruments , whereby men are justified , yet they are not the foundation and ground of justification , but the lord jesus christ alone , even jesus of nazareth , who dyed for our sins , without the gates of jerusalem , and rose again in his intire and perfect obedience and righteousness , is the alone and only foundation and ground of justification , on which the souls of all the faithful are to rest for justification , and remission of all sin ; and therefore no man is to rest or relie upon the best works , or righteousness , or obedience , that he doth or can do , even when helped to perform the same , by the help of the holy spirit : for this were to put good works in the room of christ , which ought not to be ; for no works of righteousness or holiness done by us , even by the help of the holy spirit , is the foundation of the saints faith , or justification , but christ alone , and the free love , mercy , grace and favour of god the father revealed in him , and by him , through the holy spirit . for seeing all men generally have sinned , no mans best obedience for sin formerly committed , can be a ransom unto god , but christ alone is the ransom , even he who was crucified , and rose again , ( pet. . . ) the just having suffered for the vnjust , that he might bring us unto god. and as no man can redeem the soul of his brother , so , nor can he redeem his own soul ; for the redemption of the soul is precious , and ceaseth forever , psal . . . viz. to be the work of man , but it is only and alone the work of him , who is both god and man , according to verse . but god will redeem my soul from the power of the grave , for he shall receive me , selah . see further these other scriptures , ephes . . . col. . . heb. . , . gal. . . pet. . . rev. . . mat. . . tim. . . job . . , . . and seeing remission and pardon of sin for christ's sake , is a part or branch of justification , as these faith-publishers do acknowledg , and that repentance is of such necessity , that none may expect pardon without it , as they confess , cap. . sect . . is it not very manifest , by their own confession ( though in plain contradiction to their own doctrin ) that repentance is a necessary instrument and condition whereby to obtain justification . and indeed the scripture layeth equal weight upon repentance and conversion , as it doth upon faith , in order to obtain remission or pardon of sins , acts . . repent ye therefore , and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out . acts . . to turn them from darkness unto light , and from the power of satan unto god , that they may receive forgiveness of sins , &c. and when the scripture saith , titus . . not by works of righteousness , which we have done , but according to his mercy he saved us . it is clear , that works before , or without true faith are understood , and not the inward work of sanctification , as is clear from the following words , by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost . and if the real inward work of sanctification and obedience had not been necessary to salvation , the scripture would not have said , work out your salvation with fear and trembling : and if ye through the spirit do mortifie the deeds of the body , ye shall live . and therefore when paul doth so earnestly plead that men are not justified by the works of the law , it is evident , he doth only exclude these legal performances and observations that the jews rested in , who had not faith in christ . and that no works , however so good or holy , being performed by men , ought to be rested in , as a foundation or ground of justification , for that were to exclude christ , and make his death of no effect . and again , when james doth plead so earnestly , that men are justified by works , and not by faith only , giving an instance in abraham and rahab , he only placeth faith and works together ( viz. such works as accompany true faith , and work together with it ) as necessary instruments and conditions , whereby to obtain justification , but not to be the foundation thereof . . and whereas paul generally so much useth that manner of speech , of justification by faith , it is manifest that by faith , he doth not mean only that single virtue called faith , but as by way of synecdoche , the most eminent , or noted part , is put for the whole , as when in scripture as well as in common speech , the head of a man is put for the whole man , ezek. . . ezek. . . even so by faith , the apostle in these places doth mean the whole complex or systeme , or intire body of the evangelical virtues and graces , whereof faith is as it were the head , and is first in order of nature , at least , in respect of the other ; and sometimes also by faith he understandeth , the whole evangelical dispensation and doctrin , as especially in that noted place , gal. . . but before faith came , we were kept under the law , &c. and verse . but after that faith is come , &c. where certainly paul doth not mean only that single virtue , called faith , but the whole evangelical dispensation , with all the spiritual gifts and graces of it . and again , gal. . . received ye the spirit by the works of the law , or by the hearing of faith ? which hath the same signification . and thus in common speech among christians , and christian writers , the christian faith doth signifie the whole christian religion and obedience ; and so unbelief in scripture is put for all other sin that men generally are under , before they believe , as rom. . . . true faith in christ jesus , ( on whom alone the soul resteth , as on the true foundation for justification , and all other divine and spiritual gifts & blessings ) is not only a believing in him , as he is the word , which was in the beginning with god , and is god , by whom all things were made , and which was in all the prophets , and faithful and holy men in all ages , but as the same word did take flesh , and was god manifest in the flesh , justified in the spirit , &c. tim. . . which paul called , the great mystery of godlinss , to wit , christ crucified , and risen again , made of a woman , made under the law , the son of god , that did come in the likeness of sinful flesh , made like unto us in all things , sin excepted ; who being in the form of god , and thought it no robbery to be equal with god , humbled himself , and took upon him the form of a servant ; and was found in the true form and nature of a man , the seed of abraham and david , conceived by the holy ghost , and born of the virgin mary , at bethlem , in the land of judah . and thus the true faith doth not divide christ , but receiveth him , and joyneth the soul unto him entirely , to wit , the whole and intire christ , both as he did come outwardly in the flesh , and as he did , and doth inwardly come in the spirit ; and as the said true faith doth not divide him , so nor doth it divide his offices , but taketh or receiveth him in all his offices , as king , priest and prophet , shepherd , physician , husband , &c. and as he is called ( jerm . . . ) the lord our righteousness , in scripture ; so as none can have him to be their righteousness and justification , but who have him to be their lord , king and ruler in them , and their sanctification , wisdom and redemption . and thus every truly believing soul , is as the true mother of the child , who would not have the child divided ; but she who was not the true mother of the child , she would have the child divided ; a true figure of all false christians , who would have christ divided , and say , they believe in christ without them , but do not believe and receive christ within them , as god the father doth inwardly reveal him ; or as ranters , and other high notionists , who pretend to believe in christ , as he is the word and light in them , but slight and blaspheme against christ that was crucified without them . whereas the true believer doth both believe in christ , and receive christ , as he came in the flesh , and was crucified for our sins , and rose and ascended into heaven , and is now in heaven glorified , in the intire and perfect nature of man , in soul and body , appearing in the presence of god for us , our advocate with the father , and also doth believe in him , and receive him spiritually , to live and dwell in his heart , as he is the lord that spirit , and the second adam , or heavenly man , the quickning spirit , who is the true spiritual meat and drink to every believing soul , even as christ said , i am the true bread of life , he that eateth me , shall live by me . . and this true faith , in the least true measure of it , as it is an act or exercise , hath assurance in it , of the love and mercy of god revealed in christ jesus ; and true infallible assurance is of the very nature and being of true faith , as it is exercised on christ , its true and proper object and foundation , and upon the love and mercy of god the father revealed in christ ; hence paul said , that his gospel came unto these to whom he preached , not in speech only , but in power , and in the holy ghost , and in much assurance , or as the greek hath it , much full assurance , thes . . . and he said further , his preaching was in the demonstration of the spirit , and of power , cor. . , . that their faith ought not to be in the wisdom of man , but in the power of god : and this was sure footing , and had assurance in it , as the building on the sure rock . but they who deny all inward new revelation of the spirit , it s no wonder they deny that faith hath assurance in the being and nature of it . but without divine inward revelation , which begetteth assurance , there is no true faith , but only opinion , or conjecture , seeing there is no midst betwixt assurance and opinion , or conjecture ; and therefore these faith-publishers , have denyed the true faith of god's elect , when they say , it may be without assuranee , and that infallible assurance doth not belong so to the essence of faith , but that a true believer may wait long , and conflict with many difficulties , before he be partaker of it ; see chap. . sect. . and it is yet as strange , that they affirm , that a man without divine new revelation ( which here they call extraordinary , although in their first chapter , they have denyed all new divine revelation , even since the apostles ) can be infallibly assured , that he is in favour with god ; the which assurance they seem to ground upon the inward evidences of the graces of god , and the testimony of the spirit of adoption , witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of god. but whether this be not a manifest contradiction , one while to assert the necessity of the inward evidence of grace , and the testimony of the spirit witnessing with our spirits , that we are the children of god ; and another while , yea , with the same breath , to deny all inward revelation of the spirit ; and to say , the spirit worketh only effectively , and not objectively , and therefore is only medium incognitum assentiendi , to wit , an unknown principle of assenting , let the wise in heart consider and judge . for seeing no place of scripture , telleth us , that we have these infallible marks of god's children , and yet the spirit doth tell , or witness it , to or together with our spirits ; this certainly is a novum effatum , or new truth , or saying , no where either expresly or consequentially contained in the scripture ; or if they say it is contained in scripture , at least consequentially , to wit , that j.d. or j.c. hath the infallible marks of a child of god , let him produce it , or any for him , which they shall never be able to do . it is wonderful , that these men have such inveterate prejudice against divine inward revelation , that rather than assent to so blessed and comfortable doctrin , they will run into the most palpable non-sense and contradiction . and when they start from the testimony of the spirit , as implying divine inward revelation , they run at last to the testimony of a man 's own heart and conscience , not well considering that the bare testimony of a man's heart and conscience cannot infallibly assure him , or if it could , it is no divine testimony , but only human , and therefore no true object of divine faith. . but as the least true measure of faith , as it is lively acted or excercised upon christ inwardly revealed , hath an infallible assurance in it ; so this assurance doth only reach to the present state of faithfulness , as it is continued in , until it please god to reveal to the soul , that it shall be preserved faithful to the last , which so high degree of assurance , many true believers have not attained unto , god reserving that to such as he counteth worthy to reveal the same . but the first degree of assurance , to wit , whereby the soul is infallibly assured , that for the present , it is in the way and state of salvation ; and as it abideth , and continueth to walk in that living way and path it hath begun in , it shall be eternally saved , is a very blessed and comfortable degree , and such as for which every soul that hath it , has great cause to praise god. nor doth this degree of assurance hinder , but that the enemy of the soul's peace may raise up clouds and fogs of doubting and unbelief , which may for some time obscure that assurance , if the soul be not duely watchful , and diligent to retain the same . chap. viii . whether true beginnings of sanctification can be fallen from totally ? and whether it is true , that no man by any grace of god given him , or to be given him in this life , can perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them , in thought , word and deed ? . that real and true beginnings of faith , and sanctification , or true and real righteousness may be fallen from , is clear from many testimonies of the holy scripture , especially heb. . , , , , . where , first , is described the state of some , who do fall away , what it was before they so do ; as st . that they were enlightned , so as to have tasted of the heavenly gift ; dly . to have been made partakers of the holy ghost ; dly . to have tasted the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come ; and surely , all this could not be without some real beginning of true sanctification . secondly , the state of such is described , when , or after they do so fall away , that they crucifie to themselves the son of god afresh , and put him to an open shame ; and also the great danger they are in ; so that it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance : but how far this impossibility doth extend , whether to a simple impossibility , or only in some respect , is not the present business to determin , and to the same purpose the author writeth , heb. . , , . thirdly , the apostle paul in his epistle to the romans , chap. . doth not only affirm , that many jews and people of israel , who were the natural branches , were broken off from the root ( which root is christ ) by unbelief , but warneth the believing gentiles , of their great danger , also to be cut off , if they did not keep in holy fear and watchfulness , see verse . , . fourthly , the apostles , peter and jude set before the christians , the fearful examples of the fallen angels , and of the old world , and also of the people of israel , who were saved out of egypt , to be a warning and caution unto them , lest they should fall after the same manner . now the fall of the angels , was a total falling away , and so was that of israel in the wilderness , who though they did eat that spiritual meat and drink that spiritual drink , to wit , the rock that followed them , and that rock was christ , as paul expresly declared , cor. . yet were overthrown in the wilderness for their idolatry , fornication , and other great sins , they were destroyed of the destroyer ; so that in that day , god did swear against them , they should not enter into his rest ; see pet. . throughout , compared with jude , and cor. . throughout . fifthly , the parable of the seed that was sown in the stony and thorny ground , that sprang up , and afterwards whithered , did signifie ( as christ expresly did expound it ) some that believed for a time , and afterwards did fall away . and this faith was not altogether a false faith , otherwise it had not been blame-worthy in them , to have left it , or cast it away ; for it is rather commendable , than reproveable , to cast away what is false and hypocritical , and not real : nor doth it argue , that their faith was not true or real , that it sprang up in the stony and thorny ground . for many that are real and sincere believers , at their first believing , feel their hearts to be both stony and thorny ground , and yet with diligence and labour , through the power and grace of god , come to get their hearts in process of time , so changed and renewed , that they become good ground , and bring forth good fruit to the end : so the more stony and thorny that the heart is , the more labour is to be used to make it good , which by the grace of god may well be done . sixthly , the parable of the ten virgins , five whereof were foolish , hath the same signification , for these five foolish virgins had some oyl in their lamps , but not being wise to get enough , they spent what they had , and so their lamps went out ; for though they had oyl in their lamps ( otherwise their lamps could not have gone out ) yet they had not in their vessels , as the wise virgins had , and so when they were called at midnight , to meet the bride-groom , they had no oyl at all , neither in their lamps , or vessels ; see mat. . from verse . to . seventhly , it is expresly said , ezek. . . and , . when a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness , and committeth iniquity , he shall die . and again , when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness , and doth that which is lawful and right , he shall live . and eighthly , the example of david is a most clear instance , who fell from his integrity , by these two great and capital sins of adultery and murther , and brought death upon him ; and had not god renewed him again by repentance , and restored him , he had dyed in his sins , and perished ; and this fall of his was total , though not final , because god restored him before he dyed . but to say , as these faith-publishers say and affirm , that no men once sanctified in the least measure , can fall totally from their sanctification , though committing murder and adultery , as was the case of david ( see cap. . sect. . and cap. . . of their confession ) nor from their justification , is not only a most false and pernicious doctrin , but a most wonderful piece of confusion . for if he that is both murderer and adulterer in the very act , and remaining in that or these sins , without repentance for some time , are really saints , and justified ; then who may be said not to be saints ? or what difference is there betwixt the saints , and no saints , betwixt the godly and the wicked , good men and evil men ? if a man that is both murderer and adulterer , be a real saint , and a justified man , then the worst of men may generally believe they are true and real saints , and ye cannot convince them of the contrary ? for by what means can they be convinced thereof ? tell them of their sins , lying , stealing , drunkenness , swearing , murther and adultery , none of all this , according to this wicked doctrin , doth prove them to be no saints , or that they have not true faith ; and therefore if they die in these gross sins , they must go to heaven immediately ; because they shall die in faith , they shall die sanctified and justified men ; than which i know no greater confusion , and daubing with untempered morter , and sewing pillows under peoples arm-holes , like the false teachers of old , and prophecying smooth things unto people in their sins , and flattering them , yea , imboldning and encouraging them to sin : and no doubt , many are wofully imboldned and encouraged to run into sin , and excess of sin by such poysonous doctrin , that these false teachers feed them with , that is like sweet poyson , that though it be sweet to the flesh , yet it kills the soul : doth not the scripture say , the soul that sinneth shall die , and the wages of sin is death ? and as every sin doth in some measure kill the soul , so great sins , such as murder and adultery , than which we can hardly suppose any greater ( unless that unpardonable sin of blasphemy against the holy ghost ) do wholly kill and destroy the soul , insomuch that if any such soul ever be saved , it must be by a new creation , and renewing ; and of this david was well sensible , when , after god was pleased spiritually to visit and awaken him again , he prayed unto god , saying , create in me a clean heart , o god , and renew a right spirit within me , psal . . . and thus according to these false teachers , there is no mortal sin , that any soul once quickned in the least degree , can commit ; and the same sin that is mortal in the unbeliever , is not mortal in him that once was a believer , as murder , adultery , yea , incest , or worse , is no mortal sin , in one , and yet is a mortal sin in the other . doth not this loose the reins to all sorts of wickedness , and make god a respecter of persons , and faith a sort of proof , that though men , once having faith , commit the worst sort of sins , as murder , adultery , incest , rapine , yet their faith is a sort of proof unto them , that none of these sins doth or can kill them ? they are still saints for all this , and justified in the sight of god ; and if saints , then good enough to be your church-members , yea , members of the independent or congregational church . why ? what doth hinder , but they are as real and lawful members of the church as any others ? and if murderers and adulterers , while such , are still saints , and qualified to be your church-members , it is no wonder that your church be large , and have a great number of members . it is no great difficulty to be a member of that church , when a murderer , an adulterer can be a member of it . is this your pretence to reformation ? and why , ye estimate your church more holy than the church of rome ? but is not your church and doctrin in this respect much more unholy ? for the church of rome saith , all gross , or great sins , as fornication , adultery , murder , and the like , are really mortal sins , in all that commit them , without respect of persons ; and whoever commit such sins are fallen from their state in grace . and so saith the scripture , cor. . , . be not deceived , neither fornicators , nor idolaters , nor adulterers , &c. shall inherit the kingdom of god. the which kingdom of god is a state of grace , as well as of glory . and here we see the apostle paul maketh no distinction betwixt one that hath formerly believed , and one that hath not believed , but without distinction , or respect of persons , he concludeth in general against them all , that while such , they cannot inherit the kingdom of god. but according to this westminster and new-england confession of faith , fornicators , and murderers , and adulterers , that have at any time once believed , do still inherit the kingdom of god , to wit , a state of grace , which is , in a true sense , the kingdom of god , and is frequently so called in scripture . and thus it doth most evidently appear , that their doctrin in this particular is antichristian , and contrary to the doctrin of the holy scriptures . and to say , that murder or adultery in him that hath once truly believed , is not a mortal , or killing sin , but is a mortal sin in him that hath not believed , is not only to make god a respecter of persons in the worst sense , but to extenuate the sin in the believer , and to aggravate it in the unbeliever , contrary to the scriptures testimony , which doth aggravate any sin , that men having once believed , fall into , more than in unbelievers , as is clear from pet. . , . . and as for the scriptures , they bring in their said confession , to prove their false doctrin , let them be impartially examined , and they will be found to prove no such thing ; some of them being expresly conditional , as that in pet. . . for if ye do these things , ye shall never fall . here it is only promised conditionally , but not absolutely , that they shall not fall , to wit , if they give all diligence to add to their faith virtue , &c. verse . and this serveth them not only from falling totally , but from falling indefinitly or universally , so as not at all to fall ; for he saith not , ye shall not fall totally , but , ye shall not fall . and there are many other scriptures , that though they do not expresly mention the condition , yet do imply it , and are to be expounded by other scriptures that do express it . . it is readily and willingly granted , that there is a state in holiness , or sanctification , that may be attained and grown up into , wherein men cannot fall away totally from a state of grace ; but as they cannot fall away totally , so they cannot commit any gross or great sin , which in the scripture phrase , is commonly called sin , to wit , a hainous sin , or crime , which john calleth , a sin unto death , john . , . and here he distinguisheth betwixt a sin unto death , and a sin that is not unto death , viz. that doth not totally slay the soul's life , but woundeth it , and killeth only in part , as some small wandring or evagation of mind , or giving way ( through slackning the watch ) unto a vain thought , for some small time ; something of anger , or passion , upon some sudden occasion ; something of glorying in sufferings , or services , or knowledge , or in spiritual attainments ; something of too forward and hasty zeal , and divers like sudden motions , that a gracious and godly soul may be tryed and afflicted with , that are as thorns in the flesh-and do wound and afflict the soul , but are not suffered to proceed so far , as to carry it forth into any secret or open gross crime , either inwardly in the heart , or outwardly in word or deed. hence both in the old and new testament , we find divers kinds and degrees of sin , more or less heinous , and these expressed by divers both hebrew and greek words : the more heinous are called , iniquities , vngodliness , impiety , vnrighteousness , perverseness , rebellion ; and others of an inferiour nature , are called , trespasses , debts , omissions , faults , &c. now the least kind or degree of sin doth weaken and wound , yea , kill in part the soul 's spiritual life , as when in the natural body some member is mortally wounded , and killed , and yet the whole person is not slain thereby ; but all gross sins , such as fornication , adultery , murder , theft , robbery , &c. make havock , waste and destroy the soul's life , and kill the whole man , whom , notwithstanding , god in his infinite mercy may and doth , at times , restore . for we read of no sin unpardonable , but that of blasphemy against the holy ghost , and doing despite to the spirit of grace . and such who are come to this noble degree and state of sanctification , are described , psal . . , . blessed are they that keep his testimonies , and that seek him with the whole heart , they also do no iniquity , they walk in his ways . and such have their calling and election made sure unto them ; such are not meerly or barely servants , nor sons of the bond-woman , but sons of the free-woman , and throughly renewed and born of god , who doth not commit sin , for his seed remaineth in them , john . . and he cannot sin , because he is born of god. for indeed to him that is born of god , sin is contrary to his new nature , as much as holiness or righteousness is contrary to the devil's nature , or as one contrary thing can be to another , as it is contrary to a fish to live on dry land , or for a sheep or dove to live in the bottom of the seas . but whoever commit any gross thing , as fornication , murder , adultery , theft , robbery , perjury ; &c. never arrived to this pure and perfect state of sonship , were but servants , and not purely and perfectly sons ; and yet the state of the servant is a true and good state in its place , and as faithfully improved , leadeth on infallibly to the state of pure and perfect sonship ; and such who have attained to this pure and perfect state of sonship , can say with paul , gal. . . so then brethren , we are not children of the bond-woman , but of the free. and with john , john . . they ( to wit , such who were not true sons , but at best only servants ) went out from us , but they were not of us , &c. to wit , sons and children of the free-woman , or the children of the new covenant , they were only of hagar , that signifieth the law , or first covenant . and to conclude , the righteousness and holiness of the first covenant , may be totally fallen from , such as was that of the angels , who fell , and adam the first man , he fell totally , and so may they who are not further advanced , than to bear the image of him , the earthly adam ; but the righteousness and holiness of the new covenant , ( such as they attain unto , who are throughly born of god , and are made overcomers and conquerors , yea , more than conquerors , as the scripture phraseth it , and are made conform to the image of christ , the second adam , the lord from heaven , heavenly ) cannot be fallen from , or lost ; such having overcome , are made pillars in the house of god , so as no more to go out , rev. . . and to this state only do all these places of scripture relate , that hold forth and imply a sure and absolute stedfastness in holiness and righteousness . but who are thus far advanced , and who are not , although infallible signs and marks of distinction may be given of these two so differing states , god only infallibly knoweth , and they to whom he doth reveal it : for it is god that must make known by the inward revelation of his holy spirit , who hath these marks , otherwise men may presume to have them , when they have them not . and of these infallible signs and marks , some of them are to love god with the whole heart , to love him purely and perfectly , to love him for himself , and to desire to enjoy him , as he is a god of holiness , purity and righteousness , more than for gifts , or comforts , or rewards , that are of an inferiour nature ; to hate and fear sin , more than all punishment for sin ; to have no inward inclination , or desire to revenge injuries , but most willingly and heartily to forgive and bear them ; to love enemies , from the very inward ground and bottom of the heart , and always to render good for evil , and blessing for cursing . now he that is in the state of a meer servant , or son of the bond-woman , may endeavour to practice all these things in word and deed , as outwardly , and may have many inward wrestlings , and endeavours inwardly to bring his heart to the inward conformity of this most holy and spiritual law ; but until he be more inwardly changed and renewed , and born again by a second inward birth , he cometh not up in heart and soul to this inward purity , but feels a secret defect within him , of this so perfect righteousness , that is wholly evangelical . . next as to that other question mentioned in the title of this chapter , viz. whether it is true , that no man by any grace of god given him in this life ( which includes all grace given at present , or to be given at any time hereafter in this life ) can perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them , in thought , word and deed. the faith publishers of westminster and new-england do positively & expresly affirm it , in answer to question . larger catech. and cap. . sect. . they farther say , that the best works of the saints , which proceed from the spirit of god , as they are wrought by them , are defiled . the which assertions have seemed so gross to divers of their church-members , that they could not believe , that their catechism and confession of faith said any such thing , until i have got the book , and both read & caused them to read the same in their said catechism & confession with their own eyes , and then they were amazed and ashamed ; and indeed it is an astonishing doctrin , especially to say , that the good works of god's holy spirit are defiled in or by the saints . it is such a chimera , or contradiction , as to say , one and the same thing can have the perfect shape of a man , in all his parts and members , without any defect or redundancy , as to say , a perfect man , and yet also have the shape of a dog , ass or hog , at the same instant . for they say , as it is the work of god , it is perfect ; and as it is the work of man , it is imperfect and sin , and that totally . for they do not mean , that one part of the work is god's , and that is perfect , and another part is man's , and that is imperfect ; but that the whole work , as it is god's , is perfect , and as it is man's , even the same whole work is defiled and imperfect , yea , sin : what greater piece of nonsense and contradiction can be imagined ? as who would say , the snow is perfectly white in one sense , and yet black in another sense , or the fire is hot in one sense , but cold in another ? and another as great an absurdity they have affirmed , that these defiled and sinful works of the saints , god doth accept them , looking upon them in his son , though in god's sight , they are defiled and reproveable . is not this to represent god ( to speak with reverence ) as looking with a deceiveable eye , as one that looks upon an object , through a green or red glass , it seemeth green or red , although it be not really so ? and is it not to make christ a meer cloak to sin , or blind to hide it from god's all-seeing eye , or if not to hide it , yet for god to accept that for good and holy , which is not really so , and so to give a false judgment , and to call evil good , which god abhorreth ? and is not this antimonian like , who say , god seeth no sin in them , though they lye , swear falsly , drink , drunk , steal , whore , & c. ? yea , ranter like , for they say , god seeth no sin in them , because he looks upon them in christ . but surely , in whomsoever sin is , god and christ seeth it , and cannot accept it , and christ himself judgeth and condemneth all sin. and as for their alledged proofs from scripture , they are meerly wrested and abused , as the impartial reader may perceive , with small examination . the first place they cite in their larger catechism , answ . to quest . . is james . . for in many things we offend all . but to this i answer , st . he doth not say , in all things , as these faith-makers say , that all the best works of the saints are defiled , and they sin in them all . dly , he doth not say , we shall , and must always offend , and can do no otherwise by any grace of god , so long as we live . dly , it is to be considered , that the apostle james writes this epistle in general to the twelve tribes , who were not generally come to a state of perfection , and of such it may be said , they offend in many things , to wit , such as are weak in faith ; and though he use the first person of the plural number , saying , we , this doth not prove that he doth understand himself , more than when he saith , verse , therewith ( to wit , the tongue ) curse we men. for james , to be sure , was no such man , both to bless and curse with the same tongue or mouth ; for thus he expostulates with them , my brethren , these things ought not so to be ; doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter ? the next place they cite , is john . . for without me ye can do nothing . this proveth indeed , that no man without the grace of christ can do any good ; but it proveth not , that by the grace of god he cannot do that which is good . surely paul was not of these mens faith , who said , he was able through him that strengthned him , viz. christ to do all things . the next place they cite , is ecclesiastes . . there is no man that doth good , and sinneth not . to this it is answered ; first , the translation doth as well bear it in the potential mood , and may not sin ; the hebrew word being in the future , which is at times put for the potential mood , as psal . . . the word in the hebrew is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the future : secondly , it is readily granted , that there is a time or state wherein men generally do sin , until a state of perfection be attained , which was not generally attained in the time of the law , or old testament , for the law made nothing perfect , and it is said to be weak , although no doubt , there were some excellent and perfect men in that time , but they did not attain to that perfection by the law , but by faith in christ . another place they cite , is gen. . . and god saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth , and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually . answer , this is very impertinently here alledged , for it speaketh only of that generation of men in the old world , that were so exceedingly degenerated , that god was provoked to drown them with the deluge of waters . but this doth not prove that it is so with the saints ; yea , noah is expresly excepted , verse . but noah found grace in the eyes of the lord. and vers . . noah was a just man , and perfect in his generation ; and noah walked with god. another place they cite , rom. . . answ . this place is as impertinently alledged as the former ; for it is plain , that paul there describeth the condition of men , both jews and gentiles , as they are generally under the law , and before they have faith in christ , as is clear from verse . now we know , that what things soever the law saith , it saith to them who are under the law. but no where can it be found in scripture , that there are none of these who are under grace , that are righteous men , and made free from sin ; but the contrary is manifest , which expresly testifieth of many righteous and perfect men , in their generation , both before and after christ came in the flesh , who pleased god , and were men of good hearts , and good lives , and especially enoch is recorded , to have walked with god by faith , of whom nothing blame worthy is mentioned in any one particular . and christ speaking of good men , saith , a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit ; and a good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth good things . but to apply these words , rom. . . and the following words , to the saints generally , as these faith publishers do , sutes more with ranters than sober christians ; see and well consider the words , from verse . to verse . there is none righteous , no , not one ; there is none that understandeth , there is none that seeketh after god ; they are gone out of the way , they are together become unprofitable ; there is none that d●th good , no , not one : their throat is an open sepulchre , with their tongues they have used deceit ; the poyson of asps is under their lips , whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness ; their feet are swift to shed blood , destruction and misery are in their ways , and the way of peace they have not known : there is no fear of god before their eyes . o ye presbyterian and independent . teachers of new-england and old ! how are ye not ashamed to apply these words to all god's true saints ? yea , to the best that ever lived in the best state ; and to bring them as a proof against the possibility of the saints perfection in this life : for if these words do hold forth the best condition of the saints , that ever they were in upon earth , ye may as well say , all men , yea , the worst of men are saints , or the saints are the worst of men , and there is no difference of men at all , but all are equally wicked , equally ungodly , unholy , unrighteous , which is indeed the plain and express language of ranters , libertines , atheists , some of whom to the wounding and loathing of my soul , i have heard so affirm : but we cannot grant unto you , that any of god's saints are in that state and condition described by paul in that place , rom. . from verse . to verse , and . which words he citeth out of some of the psalms of david , describing the state of men , as they are in the fallen state , and before the new birth and spiritual regeneration in christ . but thus to confound these so differing states , is to confound heaven and earth , yea , rather heaven and hell , and to soppose a concord betwixt light and darkness , god and belial , christ and antichrist . but let it be known unto you , we can allow none of god's true saints to be such as are there described by paul , rom. . from verse . to . but it doth too much sute and quadrate with many of your supposed new-england saints , who have most bitterly and falsly accused god's servants , called in scorn quakers , and most cruelly whipped , imprisoned and robed many of them , and hanged some of them . it may be well enough said of them indeed , their throat is an open sepulchre ; with their tongues they have used deceit ; the poyson of asps is under their lips , whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness ; their feet are swift to shed blood , destruction and misery are in their ways , &c. take this home to you , and blame not me for the application , seeing ye make it your selves , and judge it to be your own condition . . and that the said doctrin , viz. the best of the saints by the greatest grace of god given in this life , cannot perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them in thought , word and deed , and cannot be free from sin for term of life , but must sin so long as they live , and are only set free from sinning after death , as they expresly word it , in answer to quest . . larger catechism , is not only warranted by any place of scripture , but is most expresly contrary to scripture in many places , and is quite opposite to the very nature of the new covenant and gospel dispensation , and highly injurious to the lord jesus christ , tending to make void , and of none effect , the very end of his coming , and to frustrate his exceeding rich grace ; and also , it is most wofully injurious to mens souls , not only discouraging men to press after perfection in holiness , and freedom from sin , but tending to encourage them in sloath and neglect , to live and die in their sins , and yet for all this be saints , and immediately go to heaven , although they both live and die in their sins . and first , that the said doctrin is expresly contrary to scripture , see rom. . . being then made free from sin , ye became the servants of righteousness . and chap. . , , , . and verse . and chap. . , , . john . , , , , . ephes . . . coloss . . . heb. . . next , god did promise in the new covenant , that he would pour clean water upon his people , and they should be clean from all their filthiness ( ezek. . , &c. ) and he would write his law in their hearts , ( jer. . . ) and put his spirit in their inward parts , and give them a heart of flesh , and a new heart , and a new spirit , and put his fear in their hearts , that they shall not depart from him . and surely all this doth plainly hold forth a freedom from a total sinning , and that daily in thought word and deed. thirdly , the very end of christ's coming was to save his people from their sins , and not in their sins , to put an end to sin , and to finish transgression , and bring in everlasting righteousness , ( dan. . . ) and to do or effect that which the law could not do , viz. to destroy sin , and him who hath the power of death , to wit , the devil , that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit , rom. . . and the lord said unto paul , cor. . . my grace is sufficient for thee . but if it cannot preserve any soul , one day , or hour , or moment , from sinning actually in thought , word and deed , it cannot be understood to be sufficient ; and paul said , where sin did abound , grace hath much more abounded , and he was able through christ that strengthened him , to do all things : and christ said , his yoke was easie , and his burden was light : and john said , his commandments are not grievous . but according to these faith-publishers , christ's yoke is so heavy , that none can bear it ; for what is it to bear his yoke , but to keep his commandments ? and if they cannot be fulfilled by men , and yet many thousands cast into hell-fire for not fulfilling them , they are very grievous , which god forbid we should think . and to say , that god requireth perfect obedience from any part of mankind , and yet giveth them no ability to perform it , and punish them with hell-fire , for not doing that which is utterly and absolutely impossible for them do , doth wofully reflect upon the justice of god , and rendereth him not only severe and hard , but most cruel and tyrannical , worse than pharoah , to the poor israelites , who required of them the tale of brick , but gave them no straw , and yet punished them for not performing their task . and lastly , it is wofully injurious to men , to discourage them to press after perfection , or a perfect freedom from sin , to tell them , they cannot attain to it while they live . as if a physician should tell his patient , for all the physick i give thee , thou must still remain diseased , and never be healed , till death heal thee . or as if one should say to a traveller , that is going to such a city , thou shalt never reach to it whilst thou livest in this world. would not this greatly discourage them ? and also it doth greatly encourage people to live in sloath , and neglect to tell them , that though they live and die in their sins , they shall be saved , if they have at any time once in all their life believed in christ jesus , that faith will save them , though they live and die in their sins . but we find that christ fore-warned people , that if they died in their sins , they should not come whither he did go , john . . and it was a fearful threatning that god denounced against that people , isa . . . surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you , till ye die , saith the lord god of hosts . but this false doctrin of your teachers telleth you , it is no matter , though ye die in your sins , yet ye shall immediately after death go into heaven , if ye have once believed . and the scripture saith , where the tree falleth , there it shall be , whether towards the south , or towards the north , eccles . . . but according to this evil and corrupt doctrin , though the tree falleth north , it shall lie south . it is a fearful thing to teach or believe such doctrin in a matter of so great moment , so to smooth and daub with untempered morter , and to flatter people , to tell them , they not only may , but must live and die in their sins , and yet immediately after death , they shall go into heaven , if once they have believed , their faith secureth them , though they sin daily in thought , word and deed , and break all god's holy commandments every day , and that there be no health , nor soundness in them . and indeed it is the great love that people have to sin and iniquity , that maketh them plead so earnestly for it ; for if they were weary of sin , and did hate it , as a most cruel tyrant , they would be glad to hear of a possibility of deliverance from sin here in this world. and they that plead so much for sin , to live and die in it , they plead for the devil's kingdom , and are his servants and ministers in that respect , and not the servants and ministers of christ . . but to clear the doctrin of perfection , as it is believed and preached by the people called quakers , take these following considerations , ( st . ) it is not an absolute perfection that we plead for , as attainable in this life , as many of you have falsly accused us , and particularly nath. morton , in his new-england memorial , pag. . as in many other things he doth most falsly charge that people in his said book ; for we say , that the highest degree of perfection attainable in this life ought not to be sit down and rested in by any , but there ought to be a continual progress , by the best , in holiness , and in conformity to the image of the son of god , until the very last moment of their life ; for christ himself , who was free from all sin , yet was perfected further , as he was man , and did grow both in grace and stature ; and adam in the innocent state , was still to have increased in virtue and goodness , and then he would not have fallen , as he did . ( dly . ) this perfection or freedom from sin , and possibility by the grace of god , to keep his commandments , we do not say it is attained by every one , at their first conversion or entrance into the true faith ; but on the contrary , we say , many true believers , and who have a true measure of sincerity towards god , are yet short of that state of a sinless perfection ; and that it is not attained , but by great diligence , and wrestling against sin , through the ability of the grace of god , and much watching and praying , and using all the means appointed of god , both inwardly and outwardly , to attain to that blessed conquest and victory over sin . ( dly . ) the most perfect in this life , have need to watch and pray , that they enter not into temptation ; for as adam , in innocency , and in the garden , did sin , and by his sin lost his innocency , so may men that are inwardly come to this state , if they be not duly watchful , sin against the lord ; therefore it is not the impossibility of sinning in all respects , that we plead for , but the possibility of not sinning , and that by the grace of god , and not otherwise . altho' some may arrive to that state in holiness , in conformity to the second adam , that they neither sin , nor can sin , in that sense as the scripture doth intend it , john . . which doth at least hold forth , that such who are attained to this noble degree of holiness , they cannot commit any gross sin ( although in some things , not for want of love , but not having a full and perfect knowledge in all things , they may a little fall short , as a most loving child , not perfectly understanding the fathers mind in all things , may do a thing amiss , and yet without breach of true love to his father , and therefore his father doth not charge it upon him as a crime ; and the like example may be of a most loving wife , to her husband , who retaineth her chaste and perfect love to her husband , and yet may do some things not according to his mind ; for as the scripture saith , love is the fulfilling of the law ; and he that faileth not in his love , and transgresseth not against the law of love , though in some case he may fall short in understanding , god doth not impute it to be a crime unto him . ( thly ) it is not temptations or motions unto sin , that may arise either from the devil , or the world without them , or from the natural and mortal part in them , that we plead a freedom from ; for it is readily granted that such temptations may and do follow the best men , and therefore they ought to watch against them , and resist them , the which if they do , and that they no wise joyn and consent to temptation , it is not sin unto them , according to that saying of an ancient , non nocet sensus , si desu consensus , i. e. the sense of the temptation doth not hurt , if the consent be not given unto it . ( thly . ) the seed or principle of evil , tho' it remain in the mortal , or natural part , & at times move to evil thoughts and desires , &c. yet not being in any wife joyned nor consented unto , neither outwardly in word or deed , nor inwardly in the least thought or desire , or delight and love of the heart yielded unto , nor obeyed , is not imputed to be sin unto men , who do not joyn to it , nor obey it , even as the seed and principle of god's grace , of truth , holiness , and righteousness , that is in the hearts of wicked men , and oft moveth in them to turn and convert them unto god from the evil of their ways , yet not being consented , or yielded unto , nor obeyed by them , it is not in that case their righteousness , nor doth it make them in any respect righteous , unless they joyn and yield unto it , in true obedience . ( thly . ) it is not the same degree and stature of perfection , that god requireth of every one , but according to that measure and degree of grace and light that god hath imparted to every one , to some more , to others less , but to every one sufficient to the present time and state . for he that was faithful in the improving his two talents to make them four , was accepted , although he made them not ten , as he that was faithful in his five , and made them ten , and they were both proportionally rewarded ; hence we read of good and holy men , who are said to be perfect in their generation , according to the light and grace that god gave them , in their day and age. and the high priest that had on his breast the vrim and thummim , that signifieth lights and perfections , was a type of christ , our great and only high priest , who hath the vrim , that is lights , and the thummim , that is perfections , and distributeth of these lights and perfections variously towards his saints and children , but to all sufficiently . and so the degree of perfection , and perfect obedience ought to answer to the degree of light and grace that god giveth through christ unto every one , and he who is faithful in that degree , though he hath not the same equal degree and measure that another hath , is perfect in that respect ; and the child in the child's state is perfect , being faithful to the grace and light that is given him ; and if he die in that state , he is safe , and cannot perish , as well as he that is a man in christ , and is come up to the spiritual stature and growth of a spiritual man. so that faithfulness in the work and service of god , is that which doth render a man perfect in the sight of god , according to the ability of light and grace received , whether in the state of a child , young-man , or elder in christ . and thus i have gone through all the twelve particulars , which i charged on the four teachers , whether presbyterian or independent , at boston , and have given them not only my assertions , but my arguments against their false and pernicious doctrins , that do not feed , but starve and kill the souls of them that believe and receive them . chap. ix . of the constitution and government of their visible church , who are called presbyterians and independents , or gathered churches . . the visible church they define to be , or to consist of all those throughout the world , that profess the true religion , together with their children ; see confession , cap. . sect. . where it doth plainly appear , that they require no other qualification , to constitute or make the members of their visible church , but a profession of the true religion : so that nothing of true piety or holiness , nothing of the spirit of god , nothing of an inward possession of christ , or his life , and power , or grace , or heavenly presence and appearance , is requisit to constitute any members of their visible church ; and thus though all the members of their visible church were gross and notorious hypocrites , and meer empty formalists , having only a form of godliness , without the power of it , they are sufficiently qualified to be their church-members ; yea , notoriously slanderous persons , notoriously lyars , deceivers , drunkards , adulterers , thieves , murderers , are qualified members of their church ; for all these and the worst of men may profess the true religion . it is strange , that independents so called , require no more , but to profess the true religion , to make people members of their church ! why did they formerly separate , and set up churches apart , not only from the popish and episcopal , but from the presbyterian churches , so called , if a profession of the true religion be enough , to qualifie persons to be church-members of their church ? do not those profess the true religion as well as these called independents ? yea , do not the presbyterians profess the same religion in all parts , with these called independents , and differ nothing from them , but in some small circumstances of discipline , government , and the like ? . we find no such church in all the scripture , owned to be a church of god , or christ , that the outward form or profession of true religion doth make a church of god or christ . but on the contrary , these who have the form of godliness , but have not the power of it , and deny the power , the scripture bids , turn away from them : for of this sort are they which creep into houses , &c. see tim. . , . and consequently these can be no true church of christ . and as for the distinction of the church , visible and invisible , it may be owned in a sense , but not in that sense given by them , as if to profess the true religion was sufficient to make a people to be a true visible church of christ . for the invisible church , and the visible , do not differ in substance or nature , but in some circumstances of time , places , and outward actions . and it may be well allowed , that a company , or assembly of truly holy men and women , meeting together at certain times and places , that are known to people among whom they dwell , and calling together upon the name of the lord , and teaching , and instructing , and edifying one another , every one using his spiritual gift of ministration , whether in praying or prophecying , to the edification of the whole , may be called a visible church , insomuch that they appear in external or outward and bodily works and actions that are visible . but as the body without life or spirit is dead , and cannot properly be called a man , so a church or assembly of people , only professing the true religion ( but having nothing of the true life and spirit of christ , and whose outward and bodily services and works have no inward and spiritual virtue and life in them , which is that salt that maketh them savoury , and doth recommend them unto god , so that he savoureth a sweet savour in them ) cannot be truly and justly accounted a true church of christ : for we no where find in scripture any society , or company of people called the church of christ , who had nothing but the profession of the true religion ; and although hypocrites , and meer formalists did outwardly at times mingle or mix with sincere christians , and did assume the same outward profession with them in former ages , as such were among the churches of corinth and gulatia , &c. yet these hypocrites and meer formalists , who had only the form , but had nothing of the power and life of true religion , were no part of the true church , no more than chaff or tares , that are mixed with wheat , are any part of the wheat , or dross that is mixed with silver , is any part of the silver , or old leaven that is mixed with the new dough , is any part of it . and therefore it ought to be the work of all the true members of the true church , to purge out the old leaven , and to be a separate people from all these that have only a form and profession of religion , but have nothing of the power of it . . the church of christ is called his body , frequently in scripture , and every member thereof is called a member of christ , and his body is a living body , and every member a living member ; and that which maketh both the whole body , and every member thereof living , is christ jesus the life , living and indwelling in every member , and together with christ , both the father and the holy spirit do dwell in every member of the true church , even as christ promised it should be , john . . if a man love me , he will keep my words , and my father will love him , and we will come unto him , and make our abode with him . and this we , is the father , the son , and the holy spirit , who are three , and one , indwelling in every true member of the church of christ ; and according to this , paul said to the believing corinthians , know ye not , that your bodies are the temples of the holy ghost , which dwelleth in you . and the holy ghost which dwelt in them , together with the father and the son , did work every good work in them , and move them in all holy and religious services and performances , whether to preach , pray , or give thanks , or to meditate and wait upon the lord in silence : and they knew by the inward teaching and revelation of god's holy spirit , the proper and fit times , when to speak , and when to be silent , when to preach , and when to pray , and when to begin , and when to make an end ; they had no hour-glass to measure out the time unto them , nor an outward bell hanging in a steeple , to call them together , but the gospel-bell did ring and sound in their hearts , and this gathered them together in a living way and manner ; and of this the outward bells , ( ex. , ) that did hang at the high-priest's garment , with the pomegranats , were types : and this is the living word , even christ whose inward voice and call in the soul and heart , giveth a joyful sound to that ear which is opened to hear it ; and of such it is written , blessed are they that know the joyful sound , they shall walk , o lord , in the light of thy countenance , psal . . . moreover the true church , and every member thereof , is said to be of christ's flesh , and of his bones , and they two are one flesh , ephes . . , . and they are one spirit , cor. . . for christ he is both the head and life of the church , which is his body , from whom the whole body fitly joyned together , and compacted by that which every joynt supplyeth , according to the effectual working ( the greek hath it , energia ) in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body , unto the edifying of it self in love , ephes . . . and that which thus knitteth all the members both unto christ , the head , and one unto another , is the spirit , and the unity of the spirit is the bond of peace ; for by one spirit they are all baptized into one body , and do all drink into one spirit : and this is the true gathering of a church , or churches of christ , that is far beyond all profession of true religion , or outward signs , or ceremonies , as that of water baptism , which presbyterians and others use to initiate or enter people into their church , or outward covenants , and contracts or bonds , which these called independents use to initiate or enter people into their church , all which outward things are but mens inventions , as they are now used , whereby to gather , and make up churches : and all this is but mans gathering and work , made things , likenesses and graven images of heavenly things , which the lord hath forbidden , saying , thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , nor the likeness of any thing in heaven above , &c. exod. . for whatever men make , or set up , whether it be church , ordinance , or service , without the spirit and power of god , inwardly moving , assisting , teaching , leading , guiding and ordering them so to do , is but man's work , a thing of man's making ; and all such made things , made faiths , made churches , made worships , made ordinances , without the spirit and power of god inwardly revealed , are to be abolished , shaken and removed , and the voice of god will do it , whose voice of old did shake mount sinai , and the lord hath said , yet once more i shake not the earth only , but the heavens also . and this voice of the lord uttered from heaven , hath both shaken , abolished , and removed many things of mens making already , and in the lords due time , will remove them all ; and every plant that is not of the father's planting , he will pluck it up and throw it away . and this is a warning unto you , o ye churches and people of new-england , altho' babylon like , ye sit as a queen , or have at least so sate some few years ago , and did say in your heart , ye shall see no widdowhood , and have preached it as doctrin , that the sounding of god's voice from heaven , is althogeter ceased in these days : let this be told unto you , it hath not ceased to sound , but still doth , and shall , and the sound of it shall not only shake , but utterly remove , undo , and destroy all your babylonish buildings : and this the lord will do , not by might , nor power ( viz. of man ) but by his own spirit ; and the time hastneth , and blessed shall he be who receiveth warning , and hearkneth unto the counsel of the lord ; he who hath ears to hear , let him hear . . and the true church is in god the father , and in the lord jesus christ , thes . . . and it is built upon christ , that sure foundation , and rock of ages , whom peter confessed unto , which flesh and blood hath not revealed unto him , but the father in heaven : and upon this rock so confessed , and so known and understood , which flesh and blood hath not revealed , but the father in heaven , is the true church built . and this is more than a profession of the true religion : for it is not every one that professeth the true religion , to whom the father in heaven hath revealed the lord jesus christ , as he did unto peter , and as he doth unto every true and faithful believer , and confessor of christ . and the true church that is built on this rock , and every member thereof , they are not only hearers and professors of the words and doctrin of christ , but they are doers of them : but they who do not , although they both hear and say , they are foolish builders , and build upon the sand ; and such are all these visible churches , who have no other thing to qualifie them , but to profess the true religion . now , to profess the true religion , carrieth a two-fold sense , one is , that the religion which people profess , they call , or profess it to be the true religion ; and in this sense , every one that professeth any religion at all ( if he be in earnest ) professeth the true religion ; that is , he esteemeth or professeth his religion to be such . the other sense is , that the religion that is professed , is indeed the true religion , and is not only so called , or professed : and according to this sense , your visible churches , whether presbyterian or independent , are no true churches : for the religion ye profess , is not the true religion of christ jesus , which he , and the prophets , the evangelists , and apostles did teach , as i have already proved in many weighty particulars , yea , in fundamentals , and in the very foundation it self , which is christ jesus , on which the true church is built , and every member thereof . but ye who say , all inward divine revelation of christ is ceased ; ye build not on christ , but on a meer hear-say , and historical report of him : for how can ye build on him , when ye have no belief that christ is nearer unto you , than in some remote place beyond the skies ? can the walls of the house be built on a foundation that is altogether remote from it ? must not the house and the foundation be immediately joyned together ? and must not this foundation be seen , and felt by every member ? and is not this incomparably more than the best profession of true religion ? o ye blind leaders of the blind ! how doth my soul pity you , and the poor people more especially , who are led by you , and whom ye are still seeking to lead , until both ye and they fall into the ditch ; and ye ill deserve your wages , and the many hundreds , yea , thousands of pounds , that poor people pay yearly unto you , and work sore and hard to feed you , and cloath you , and your wives and children , to luxury and wantonness , many of you , while in the mean time , under colour and pretence of feeding the souls of the people , ye famish and starve , yea , poyson and kill them with your false doctrin , as i have , through god's assistance sufficiently made appear , and i hope yet more to make appear , as i have occasion given unto me . . and christ jesus , the living , elect , precious corner-stone , the sure foundation is laid in zion , and that zion is not only the heavenly zion above , but the church and people of god on earth ; and christ jesus is one both in heaven without us , and also within us , even the man christ jesus , the same that took hold of the seed of abraham , and is the son of abraham and david , according unto that seed , and he is exalted in heavenly glory in that same seed and nature , in the whole and intire and perfect nature of man , in soul and body , having put off nothing that he had upon earth ; but these weaknesses and infirmities which he did take on him for our sake , even jesus of nazareth , he who was crucified for our sins , and rose again for our justification , who was dead , and is alive , and lives for evermore ; and he who by true faith is joyned to the spirit of christ , by the same he is joyned both to christ in him , and also to christ in heaven , and also to all the saints in heaven , and the innumerable company of angels , and spirits of just men made perfect , and also unto the god and father of our lord jesus christ ; and both god and christ are not only in remote places , and heavens without us , but also in us , and in all his saints , as he hath said , jer. . , . am i a god at hand , saith the lord , and not a god afar off ? do not i fill heaven and earth ? saith the lord. . and as to the government , and governors , or rulers of your visible churches , both presbyterian and independent , it is of the same nature with your visible churches , the only qualification of them being an outward profession of christian religion , and an outward call ( which ye are all at a loss , where to begin it , as i have already proved , cap. . ) accompanied with some natural or acquired gifts and abilities of letter-learning , reaching no further than the letter of the scripture at best , and oft , or for most part not that ; for ye preach not the letter in the form of sound words of scripture , but have so mingled it with your glosses , and wrested senses and meanings , and words of men's wisdom and intentions , that it is but little of the very letter ye preach . but if ye did preach the letter , and have not that infallible and unerring spirit of christ , which was in the true ministers of christ in former ages , and is now in his true ministers in this age , ye are but at best ministers of the letter , and not ministers of the spirit , and therefore not ministers of the new-testament . and what is the use and end of your government but to keep poor people in bondage under you , and your false doctrin ? and if they do not believe it , but witness against it , then ye cast them out of your synagogues , and yet then will force maintenance from them , as many of you have done . and when ye had power with the magistrates to instigate and stir them up to persecute honest dissenters , to whip , stock , imprison , spoil goods , cut off ears , and also to put to death ( for testifying against your false doctrins ) from your false and fallible spirit , i say , both false and fallible : for seeing ye do not profess to be taught , led and guided by the infallible spirit of christ , which was in the prophets and apostles , and in all true christians , if ye have not this spirit , your spirit is not only fallible , but false , to wit , the spirit of this world ; for there are but two spirits that do teach , lead and guide all men on earth , the one is , that unerring , true and infallible spirit of christ , which leadeth all god's true children , and the other the spirit of this world , which is the very devil himself , the god of this world , that leadeth all unbelievers and ungodly persons in the world ; and this spirit is not only fallible , but false , continually leading into error , as the spirit of truth leadeth into all truth . . and how are ye not ashamed to cite ( see confes . cap. . sect . . ) isa . . , , acts . . matth. . . for your government , and governors and elders of your churches ? because it is said , isa . . , . the government is upon his shoulders ; to wit , christ jesus ? doth it therefore follow it is upon yours ? or can any be governors or rulers in the church under him without he himself , and his holy spirit , power and life , which hath the heavenly authority in it , be known inwardly revealed , which ye deny ? was not the government in the apostles days altogether derived from the power and spirit of christ in them ? but yours is quite another thing ; by your own confession , ye have not that infallible spirit , nor the inward revelation of it . and if ye derive it from the letter , so may any body else , as well as ye , and say , because they have the letter , they are rulers and governors of churches . and as to these elders , mentioned acts . . they were such whom the holy ghost had made overseers , as is expresly affirmed of them , verse . but this ye cannot in truth say , who deny all pretence to inward divine revelation , which they had . nor doth matth. . . make any thing at all for you , but against you : christ said to the apostles , all power in heaven and in earth is given unto me ; go ye therefore and teach all nations . but when said he so unto you ? or when gave he you such commission ? or suppose ye had such commission , surely ye are very unfaithful unto it , who creep each of you into a house or town , and there only pretend to teach a few that come to hear you . so did not the apostles , but travelled from place to place , and from one nation , city and country to another , and had no certain dwelling-place by virtue of their said commission ; but so do not ye , but commonly keep to one place , unless a fatter benefice , or more yearly sallary and hire invite you to another . will nothing serve your turn but the same commission , which christ gave the apostles ? and if ye have the same commission , are not ye also apostles ? a charge which some of you have laid to us . but why do ye not mind the other part of the commission , and apply that unto you ? acts . , . and being assembled with them , he commanded , that they should not depart from jerusalem , but wait for the promise of the father , which ( he saith ) ye have heard of me , verse . but ye shall receive power after that the holy ghost is come upon you , and ye shall be witnesses unto me , both in jerusalem , and in all judea , and in samaria , and unto the uttermost part of the earth ? and though some of you in new-england , have made some show of preaching to the indians , and to have converted them , and got great sums of mony out of old england on that account . alas ! to what have ye converted them ? is it not very manifest , they are generally nothing better than when they were called heathens , but are for most part rather worse ? which of them all have ye turned from darkness to light , and from the power of satan to god , and to know god and christ by his power and spirit , to rule in them ? nay , alas ! ye know it not in your selves , and preach against it , and therefore ye are not like to be instruments to bring others to know it . and if ye say , ye are the successors of the apostles , and therefore the same call , which he gave unto them , he doth give unto you . ye must first prove and demonstrate it , that ye succeed them in the same spirit , power , light and life , and in the same holiness and righteousness of life , as well as in profession , before ye ought to be believed ; but the contrary in all these respects is manifest . nor can ye shew your line of succession , but from the church of rome , and her popes and bishops , which ye have called antichrist , in your confession of faith , cap. . sect. . as is formerly observed in cap. . . and as concerning the visibility of the true church , as it hath been granted , that the true church is oft visible , and doth visibly appear in the face of the world , as a city set upon an hill , and doth make a visible and outward profession of her faith in christ jesus , and love to him , both in good words , and good works , yet it is not any thing meerly outward and visible , that doth infallibly prove or demonstrate her to be the true church , or can make her known to people : but it is the same inward light , spirit and power of god inwardly revealed , that doth make known both christ the head , and the true church , which is his body , and every true member thereof : and without the light and spirit of christ inwardly shining , and revealing , both christ and his church is unknown unto men , but by the same is well known , even as christ said unto his disciples , john . . if the world hate you , ye know that it hated me before it hated you . now , whence is it that the world both hateth christ , and his church ? because it knoweth them not . and paul said , cor. . . as unknown , and yet well known ; to wit , well known to the children of the light , who dwell in the light , and see and judge of things , and men in the light ; but to them who are in darkness , and are darkness , unknown , and therefore hated and persecuted by them . chap. x. of their two sacraments , called baptism and the svpper . . as for the term , or word sacrament , it is no where to be found in all the english translation of the bible received among protestants , nor is there any word either in the hebrew , or greek , that doth properly answer unto it , unless they will translate the greek word that signifieth mystery , to signifie a sacrament , as the old latin hath it in ephes . . . hoc est magnum sacramentum , i. e. this is a great sacrament ; for which our english translation readeth more properly , this is a great mystery . but if sacrament signifie mystery , then there must be as many sacraments as mysteries ; and faith it self is a sacrament at that rate , and true preaching and prayer , and every other religious matter and thing , all which are holy mysteries . and they who say , there are two sacraments have borrowed these two out of the seven , professed by the church of rome , having cast off , and rejected five of the seven , for which the said church doth accuse these latter churches of sacriledge , and spiritual robbery , to abolish and take away five of the seven sacraments , or rather indeed the sixth also , seeing they believe it only to be but a figure , to wit , that called the eucharist : and to say the truth , they have not one whit more probability , but rather less , for the two sacraments that they have reserved , than for the other five that they have rejected : and they have no cause to accuse the people called quakers , of sacriledge , for denying these two , until they clear themselves of sacriledge for denying five , and give better grounds for reserving these two , than as yet they have given . . and as for infants baptism , and sprinkling a child of eight days , or more or less , on the fore-head , and call it baptism , it hath no footing in all the scripture , neither of precept nor practice , as will easily appear , by considering the places of scripture they cite for it . and first , for sprinkling on the fore-head , instead of dipping , they cite heb. . . to . but this sprinkling was not of water , but of blood ; and we do not read that it was only on the fore-head ; and the cups and vessels that were sprinkled with blood or water , were sprinkled all over , and not in one single place . and why did john baptize christ by dipping into water , and others that he baptized , if sprinkling on the fore-head was sufficient in that day ? next , as to the baptizing of infants , they cite for it , gen. . . where god commanded abraham that every man child of his posterity should be circumcised , and therefore every infant of one , or both the believing parents are to be sprinkled with water . but this consequence is meerly begged , but nothing proved . for the first , we find an express command to abraham : for the second , we find neither command nor practice in all the scripture , nor was the practice of baptizing infants in use , for an hundred of years , and more , after the apostles days , among professors of christianity . and let it be granted , that infants have a right to the grace signified by water baptism , it doth not therefore follow , that the figure or sign belongeth unto them , because they have also a right to christ's body and blood , and yet they confess , the supper is not to be administred unto them . the next place they cite , is coloss . . , . where circumcision and baptism are joyned together , but neither the circumcision , nor the baptism there mentioned , is outward , as is clear , especially of circumcision , that is said , to be made without hands ; and therefore it is not the outward of the flesh , but the inward of the heart ; and so is also the baptism there mentioned , verse . buried with him in baptism , wherein also you are risen with him , through the faith of the operation of god. ye see here is nothing of outward water : nor are all they who are baptized with outward water , either buried with christ , or risen with him , but many still alive in old adam , and that too generally . the next place they cite , is matth. . . but this saith nothing of water , and if it were granted that water-baptism is understood , as it neither is , nor ought to be granted , yet it will not prove that infants should be any more baptized than taught , seeing teaching and baptizing are joyned together . another place they cite , is luke . , . where christ biddeth to suffer little children to come unto him , and forbid them not , and that he blessed them , and laid his hands upon them , we read in scripture ; but that he baptized them either with dipping or sprinkling , we read not , but on the contrary it is expresly said , that jesus himself baptized none , to wit , with water , see joh. . . their last place they cite , is rom. . . if the root be holy , so are the branches ; but this doth not prove that infants are more to be baptized , than to have that called the supper administred unto them : and these branches mentioned by paul in that place , rom. . . were really the unbelieving jews , that because of their unbelief were broken off at that time , yet the root being holy , to wit , abraham , and the promised seed , paul had hope of their conversion , as many as did belong to god's election , as he expresseth it , verse . and these were not the immediate children of abraham , but forty generations after abraham , and isaac , and jacob ; and therefore this scripture saith as much for the aged unbelieving children of unbelieving parents , if they have descended from any of their fore-fathers , upwards of forty generations , that were believers ; and if up to forty , why not up to sixty , and further ? yea , to noah , who is the common father of all men , with whom god established his covenant , and with his seed after him , until the end of the world , that all his seed through christ , might receive the benefit of the same , unless they do wilfully reject it ; of which i have said something already in chap. . . and as for water-baptism in general , we say , it did only properly belong to john's ministry and dispensation , and is expresly contradistinguished from the baptism of christ , both by john , and also by christ himself ; for john did baptize with water unto repentance , but christ who cometh after john , and was before him , who is more worthy than john , he baptizeth with fire , and with the holy ghost ; and no doubt there was a spiritual blessing and grace conveyed unto people , by john's baptism , while it stood in force ; for god never ordained any outward thing , but as it was rightly done , in its day and season , it had some spiritual blessing accompanying it , as all the sacrifices and services of the law : and if any were raised up by the lord , as john was , and could prove , and instruct their being sent to baptize with water , as he was , these to whom they should be sent , ought gladly to receive it ; but to do it by bare imitation , or a meer pretended call , which they cannot prove to be either mediate or immediate , is great presumption , yea , superstition ; and to call that a command of god , which he hath given them no command to practise , is to set up the precepts of men in the room of god's commandments , as the pharisees did of old , and is a taking of his name in vain , for which he will not hold them guiltless . and they can never prove , by all their art and skill , that water-baptism is commanded by christ , mat. . , . for all god's commands and precepts , especially of publick institution , relating to the church , are express , in so many express words , and are not left to be gathered by uncertain and doubtful consequences . when god sent john to baptize with water , water was expressed ; but in the apostles commission to baptize , no mention is made of water , nor no words of institution commanded to be used , but the command is , go , teach and baptize all nations into the name of the father , the son , and the holy ghost . and the name of either the father , or the son , or the holy ghost , is most frequently , if not always used in scripture , to signifie power and life , as the name of the lord is a strong tower : thy name is as ointment poured forth , &c. and whereas they object , first , that the apostles could not baptize with the spiritual baptism . i answer , yea ; they could instrumentally and ministerially , as well as they could convert , and beget sons and daughters unto god ; for they were ministers of the spirit , and did minister of the spirit , both in preaching , and prayer , and laying on of hands , although god only was the principal worker and author . next , they object , that peter and paul , and some others , baptized some with water , and that christ was baptized with water . but none of these prove what they intend , for christ was baptized by john , and also he was circumcised according to the law , and paul circumcised timothy ; and the apostles generally in that day thought fit both to use , and tolerate the use of water-baptism , that belonged to john , and divers other things of the law , which by permission , for a time , and not by any gospel standing commission ; otherwise paul would never have said , he was not sent to baptize , but to preach the gospel ; nor would he have thanked god that he had baptized so few : for it were strange to think that paul would thank god , that he did not so fully obey a gospel precept . in short , if these who are so zealous for water-baptism , were cordially zealous , for the inward and spiritual baptism , they might be the more born with , as men bear with children , that use likenesses and figures of things , that sute most with the age and state of children , and charity might be allowed them in that case , to be as children or babes in christ , if they did hunger and thirst after righteousness , and did wait for the inward appearance and coming of christ's kingdom , and the revelation of it in their hearts , as some such there may be . but these , who altogether are for the outward baptism and supper , and deny wholly the inward and spiritual baptism and supper of christ , which is only known and received by the holy spirit 's inward revelation , no charity can be allowed unto them , to judge them true christians in any degree , not so much as babes , but altogether , for the time , hypocrites and formalists . . next , concerning the supper : we grant that christ had an outward supper with his disciples , when he did eat the pascal lamb with them ; and this was a real supper , and not like that which ye now use , that is neither substantial supper nor dinner , being only a little crumb of bread , scarce so big as a nut , and a spoonful of wine , or two , which hath little outward substance , and no inward and spiritual signification unto you , as ye use it , while ye altogether deny , that the saints are partakers of the substance of christ , or that christ really and substantially dwelleth in his saints ; and while ye also deny all inward revelation of him in these latter ages , your supper is a meer shadow , and none of christ's supper , nor of his institution . for when christ did sup with his disciples , in the night wherein he was betrayed , he began with the cup , and blessed , or gave thanks , and said , take this , and divide it among your selves . and next he took bread , and blessed , or gave thanks , and brake it , and gave unto them , saying , this is my body , this do in remembrance of me : likewise after supper he took the cup , saying , this cup is the new-testament in my blood , drink ye all of it , luke . . to . so we see , he used the cup twice , and began and ended with it , but so do not ye ; and though ye seem greatly to blame the church of rome , for not giving the cup to the people , but only the bread , and charge them with mutilating , or dismembring the institution ; if so , do not ye the same in part ? seeing ye use the cup but once , and christ used it twice , and began with it , but so do not ye . and seeing ye say ye have not that infallible spirit that christ had , and gave to the apostles ; and that we find you wholly ignorant of christ's body , and that ye have no discerning of it , nor no taste and savour of his flesh , which is meat indeed , nor of his blood , which is drink indeed , and know not the inward and spiritual supping with christ , we cannot believe , nor acknowledge , that ye presbyterian and independent teachers , have any power to bless either the bread , or the cup , as christ did , or to minister , or give of his body and blood to any people , which true ministers of christ have done , and do at this day , to my certain knowledge and joy , and to the certain knowledge and joy of many thousands with me , and that often in the use of outward eating and drinking , being sanctified and blessed by the word of god and prayer , as we have sat down together , whether many or a few , we have truly witnessed the fulfilling of that saying , luke . . and they told what things were done in the way , and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. and as it is , verse , . and it came to pass , as he sate at meat with them , he took bread , and blessed it , and brake , and gave to them , and their eyes were opened , ( note , even as jonathan's eyes were opened , or lightned , when he did eat the honey ; and as isaac blessed jacob when he did eat what he had prepared of savoury meat for him ; and as the angel blessed abraham , when he did eat of the calf , and the cakes that were set before him ; and as melchizedeck blessed abraham , when he brought him bread and wine ; and divers other the like examples ) and they knew him , &c. even so can many say at this day , to god's praise , in the outward eating and drinking together , as they have sate together , and waited in true silence , until god has been pleased to move some one or other of his faithful servants and ministers of his word of life , and of his flesh and blood , which is spiritual , to pray unto the lord , or give thanks , their outward eating and drinking hath been so blessed unto them , that at one and the same time they have eat both the outward bread with the bodily mouth , and the inward bread , which is spiritual , with the inward & spiritual mouth ; and they have also drunk outwardly the outward cup , and inwardly the inward and spiritual : and so at the same time , they have fed at a two-fold table , and have been both inwardly and outwardly refreshed , nourished and strengthned ; and this also oftentimes , in the use only of inward prayer and thanksgiving , as well as of both inward and outward ; and yet we neither do , nor can limit the spiritual and inward eating of christ's body , and drinking of his blood , to any outward eating or drinking whatsoever . as neither did the ancient christians , who said , that all true believers eat christ's flesh , and drink his blood , daily and hourly ; and so we believe . and no doubt , christ did really give his body and blood unto his disciples at that time , and it was not a bare figure or sign that he gave them , but in the use of the bread and wine , he gave them at the same time , an inward enjoyment of him . and all this we own , and are very glad of such occasions , when we have them , to sit together , and eat and drink both outwardly and inwardly , enjoying a two-fold table and supper at one time , and finding the lord himself spiritually present , and blessing both unto us , and enabling us to receive both his spiritual and temporal blessings , with prayer and thanksgiving : and such breaking of bread we own , from house to house , even outwardly as well as inwardly , with singleness and gladness of heart , as the primitive christians did of old , sometimes in a lesser number , and sometimes in a greater : for at that supper above mentioned , luke . . there were only present these two disciples , besides christ himself ; so that it is not the number , whether greater or small , that is essential . and also we do believe , and say , that it is our duty , not only in these more solemn eatings and drinkings , to remember the lord's death , and what he hath done , and suffered for us , when we thus eat & drink together , perhaps many belonging to divers families , but also in all our other eatings and drinkings , and at all other times , as it doth please the lord to enable us ; and every true christian hath the lord's death , resurrection , and his great love , and what he hath done and suffered for us , printed as in capital letters , upon his very heart and soul , and writ as a living epistle , with the spirit of the living god , upon fleshly tables ; and that this ought to be done , not only to his more abundant inward and spiritual coming unto us , but to be perpetuated , and continued by all true christians , to the end of the world , and the last coming of christ . and now tell me , wherein we are behind you ? or wherein we fall short of you ? or what excellency , worth , or value hath your supper above , and beyond ours ? but on the contrary , hath not ours the advantage every way ? seeing we have more frequently , both the outward and inward eating and drinking together , than ye have the outward ; and alas , the many lean and dead souls among you , void of inward and spiritual discerning , taste or savour , too manifestly demonstrate , ye are generally strangers to the supper of the lord. and we also acknowledge the outward eating and drinking , is but a figure of the inward , and therefore ought not to be rested in ; but the substance that is invisible and eternal , ought to be minded , and sought after above all . and though we are not for holding up , or preaching of figures meerly institute , for to signifie and represent a thing to come , as were these under the law ; yet such a figure as is natural , and necessarily to be used by us all , as eating and drinking , we may not reject : for the outward eating and drinking is a natural and necessary figure of the inward , even as the whole outward world is a figure of the inward and spiritual , as paul doth expresly call it , cor. . . see the ●reek . . and concerning that ye call your christian-sabbath , which ye say is the first day of the week ; and ye do positively affirm in your confession , that the sabbath was changed from the last day of the week , from the resurrection of christ , unto the first day of the week , and so to continue unto the end of the world ; see confess . cap. . sect . . but ye bring no sober proof for any such change , and the scriptures ye cite say no such thing , as gen. . , . rev. . . exod. . , . matth. . . that place in gen. . , . saith nothing of the first day , but of the seventh day : and what that seventh day is , ye cannot demonstrate . and as to the next scripture , rev. . . where john saith , he was in the spirit on the lord's day . although it is more than ye can prove from scripture , that the first day of the week is that lord's day ; yet taking it for granted , it doth not therefore follow that it was appointed to be the christian sabbath : but it might be so called , because christ rose upon that day , and honoured that day solemnly , not only with his rising upon it , but appearing at sundry times on that day to his disciples , betwixt his resurrection and ascension ▪ and that the christians did usually and more solemnly meet on that day for publick and religious worship , in honour of our saviour , than on other days , we readily grant ; and so also do we , according to the example of the ancient christians . and all true christians should employ more of their time in religious works and services , both in private and in publick , than the jews did , and ought not to fall short of them , but exceed them . and that beside other times set apart for the worship of god , both in publick and in private , it is commendable in christians to set apart the first day of the week from common and ordinary labour , not only for an ease to their servants and cattel , but also that they may with the more freedom , and cheerful readiness attend upon the lord , and his service , without all incumbrance . for experience doth prove it , that even bodily rest from toyl and labour , doth contribute to the ease of the mind , and is a help , being duly used , to disburthen it from divers weights . for if the body be over-charged with labour , it is a hurt and clog unto the mind in divers respects ? but all this doth not prove , that the first day of the week was appointed for a sabbath , and put in the room of the seventh day of the week , enjoyned to the jews , and people of israel ; for that outward sabbath that was enjoyned unto them , was a sign and figure , as all other outward sabbaths which they had , were , as of weeks , months , years , as well as of days . and when the pure gospel and christian dispensation did take place , all these figurative and shadowy sabbaths were changed to the substance , and that substance or body is christ , according to coloss . . . but to say , the jewish sabbath is changed into the first day of the week , is to put the first day of the week in the room of the lord jesus christ , which is a great dishonour unto him ; for he is the end and perfection of the law , and of all the shadowy and figurative ordinances thereof : and as the outward temple that the jews had , is not to be changed into another outward temple , but christ is the true temple of the christians , wherein they meet , so he is their sabbath , and not any outward day . next , as to exod. . , . it saith nothing of the first day of the week , nor of one day of seven : all this is but man's invention . but it mentioneth the seventh day , wherein the lord rested from all his works , and that rest signifieth the perfection or finishing of them ; although as it is said , heb. . the works were finished from the foundation of the world ; and therefore that seventh day doth signifie christ jesus , the first and the last , who is the alone true rest and sabbath of all the faithful , as he invited , saying , mat. . . come unto me all ye that labour , and are heavy laden , and i will give you rest . and concerning this spiritual and divine sabbath , or sabbatism , it is said in heb. . , . therefore there doth remain a rest unto the people of god : for he that is entred into his rest , he also hath ceased from his own works , as god did from his ; let us labour therefore to enter into that rest , &c. and verse . we which have believed , do enter into rest . by all which it doth plainly appear , that the new-testament understandeth the christian sabbath , not of any outward day , but of christ , which the outward sabbaths of the jews did by way of allegory signifie and hold forth . and lastly , as to matth. . . where christ saith , he came not to destroy the law , but to fulfil it ; it is not to be understood that he came to keep up , and perpetuate the types and figures of the law , but to put an end to them , and in the room and place thereof to fulfil all the righteousness , equity and justice , that they did signifie or hold forth , which is as the kernal : otherwise ye might argue , as much for upholding the outward circumcision , as the outward sabbath ; and that outward sabbath was not the first day , but the seventh day . and whereas some plead , that the th commandment is altogether moral , as well as the other nine that were given forth immediately by the mouth of the lord unto the people , and writ by his finger on the tables of stone ; and therefore is perpetual , and never to be abrogated . if all this be granted , it doth not prove that the first day of the week is there commanded , as these called presbyterians and independents would have it . nor can they who plead for the keeping of the seventh day of the week for the sabbath , prove that the said fourth commandment did enjoyn to the jews the keeping of any outward or natural seventh day of the week ; for their keeping the outward seventh day of the week was enjoyned to them among the other ceremonial laws and precepts , as is clear from exod. . . and chap. . , . where it is called a sign , to wit , of that spiritual , moral and perpetual sabbath . and therefore if it be granted , that the fourth commandment is altogether moral and perpetual , it doth not follow that the seventh day therein mentioned , is any outward day , or that it enjoyneth any outward day ( for it can all be spiritually understood very well ) as the tenth commandment , thou shalt not covet , doth not enjoyn any outward thing , but reacheth to the heart , and inward part , only , and is altogether spiritual . and as the last commandment of the second table is altogether spiritual , so why may it not be said that the last commandment of the first table is altogether spiritual ? and even the mystick writers among the jews do acknowledge , that not only the seventh day mentioned in the fourth commandment , but all the six days signifie spiritual days and mysteries , as well as the seventh ; of which i shall not particularly enlarge at present . a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston , and new-england , to repent , &c. the burden of the word of the lord that came unto me on the twenty first day of the fourth month , . in the town of boston in new-england , to declare it unto boston its inhabitants , and to the inhabitants of new-england , who have been , or are concerned in opposing , and hardning their hearts against the inward appearance of god , and of his son christ jesus , in the hearts of his servants , and in the living testimonies they have born unto you , to call you to believe in the light of his son christ jesus , who hath enlightned you all , and every one of you , and to turn you from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god. oh! repent , repent for your great sins , and transgressions of all sorts , that ye have committed against the lord , and against his holy and divine light and gift in all your hearts , and especially repent of your great hypocrisie , all teachers and people of boston , and new-england every where , who call your selves christians , and have a name to live , but are dead , who draw near unto god with your mouths , and honour him with your lips , but have removed your hearts far away from him , and who have the name of christ oft in your mouths , and think to cover you with his imputed righteousness , while ye are ignorant of his life , and holy power & spirit , and divine nature in your hearts , and while ye are daily crucifying the lord of glory afresh , and putting him to open shame , and treading under foot the blood of the covenant , as the holy scripture declareth concerning some that professed christ jesus in former ages . and this is the state of many of you , yea , of the generality of you , both teachers and people of boston , and new-england , of all sorts , a few names excepted , whom the lord doth honour , and they shall walk with him in white , although ye have sought to dishonour them . and this i have seen from the lord in that pure light of his that maketh all things manifest , and before which all things are naked and bare , which light ye generally despise , and reject , and blaspheme , calling it , a meer natural light , and insufficient to lead unto god ; and the children of it ye have hated , reproached , and mocked with cruel mockings , whereby ye have sufficiently declared your selves to be born after the flesh , and not after the spirit . oh ye blasphemers against god , and his temple ( which is his light ) and them that dwell therein ! repent , repent of your blasphemies , and hard speeches , and hard thoughts against gods inward appearance , by his holy word , light and spirit in all your hearts : and repent of all your pride , vanity , folly , excess in meats , drinks , and apparel , who though ye profess your selves to be more pure , and more purely reformed , than other churches , so called , yet in the sight of god ye are nothing better , but many of you worse ; and the sin of sodom ; which was pride , and excess , and fulness of bread , is the sin of many of you , especially of the richer sort . oh , unthankful nation ! do ye thus requite the lord , who are jesurun like , that since ye waxed fat , have kicked against the lord , and are gone from that tenderness , sobriety , and simplicity that was among you , and your fathers sometime ago : oh! how quickly have ye degenerated , and departed from the lord , of whom ye have made , and still are making a great profession ! the anger of the lord is ready to break out against you yet more than formerly , unless ye repent : and though his hand hath been manifestly stretched out against you , in manifest judgments , and especially in blastings and unfruitful seasons , and other judgments , and plagues , and strokes upon you , yet ye have not seen nor regarded it , many of you , yea , most of you ; but ye are like unto them , concerning whom the prophet isaiah testified , saying , lord , when thy hand is lifted up , they will not see ; but they shall see , and be ashamed for their envy at the people . and this is the word of the lord unto you , all teachers , and people of all sorts , of boston and new-england , all such of you who are unbelievers , and have not faith in the light of god and christ within you , but place all your confidence , faith and reliance upon the imputed righteousness of christ without you , and what he did , and suffered for you unto justification , while in the mean time ye know not christ within you , and so are in the state of reprobation , or rejection , as such ; and while ye there remain , opposing christ without , to christ within , professing to own him without , but denying him within , and the revelation of him within in mens hearts , and crucifying him by your daily great sins and iniquities of all sorts . but is christ divided ? or can any have a right and sincere faith in christ , as he came and suffered death in the flesh , and rose again and ascended into glory , unless they believe in him , and own and witness him revealed in them , their king , priest and prophet , lord , judge , and lawgiver , their head and foundation laid in them , christ in them the hope of glory ? and all who sincerely own him within them , have the benefit and comfort of his death , and sufferings , and righteousness , that he accomplished without them , when he came in the flesh , and none others ; and this is unto you all the word of the lord , whether ye will hear , or forbear . and oh ! repent , repent of all your self-righteousness , and self-willings , and self-runnings and actings of all sorts , in that ye call your duties and performances , wherein ye are daily exercising your selves , without the lord 's holy spirit , and power , and life inwardly revealed , to which ye are strangers , and many of you wilfully ignorant , hating and refusing to be informed or instructed , even many or most of you . and all ye who have made light of the cruel sufferings of the lord's servants , called in derision quakers , and some of whom have been put to death at boston , by a most unrighteous and inhuman law , wherein they who either made or executed the same , have shewed themselves more inhuman , cruel and barbarous than many , or most of all sorts of mankind . oh! mourn before the lord for this great sin , and for shedding the blood of the innoccent , wherewith your land is still defiled , and the iniquity of it is not yet done away , nor shall , nor indeed can , but by deep repentance , mourning and contrition of soul , and godly sorrow , and unfeigned repentance , and turning unto the lord ; and let it not be an excuse unto you , that many of you were not the actors in that great sin , but ye have not mourned for it before the lord , many , yea , most of you , and therefore it lieth upon you : and this is the word of the lord unto you . g.k. a copy of this was set up in the most publick place , in the town of boston , the st of the th month , . boston , the th of the th month , . to james allen , joshua moody , samuel willard , cotten mather , preachers in the town of boston in new-england . friends and neighbours ; i being well assured , both by the spirit of god in my heart , and the testimony of the holy scriptures , that the doctrin ye preach to the people is false , and pernicious to the souls of people in many things , do earnestly desire and entreat you , and every one of you , the preachers in the town of boston , to give me a fair and publick hearing , or meeting with you , either in one of your publick meeting-houses , or in any other convenient place , where all who are desirous to come may have liberty , and let the time be as soon as may , as either to day in the afternoon , or to morrow in the fore-noon , but rather than fail , if ye will give me any assurance to have a meeting with you , i will attend your leasure for two or three days to come , providing once this day you send me your positive answer ; and if ye give me a meeting with you , i profer in true love and good-will , by the divine assistance , to shew and inform you , that ye teach and preach unto the people , many false and unsound principles ( contrary to the doctrin of christ , sufficiently declared in the holy scriptures ) your doctrin being according to the catechism and confession of faith of the church of boston and new-england , which i have diligently examined , and find it to be the same , with that published by the assembly of presbyterians and independents at westminster in old england , about forty years ago , excepting some few small things , wherein some of you may differ in church government and discipline , and if ye cannot receive my information , i profer to debate these things fairly with you , which i call false doctrin , and to vindicate our principles , who in scorn are called quakers , whom ye have falsly charged , for which some of our worthy friends have suffered death at boston , and let the scriptures testimony be the only external rule , test and touch-stone of our said debate . and the particular things i charge on you , as being false doctrin , and contrary to the doctrin of the holy scripture ( beside many others that i could mention ) are these following : . that god hath committed his counsel wholly to writing , even since the apostles days , the former ways of god's revealing his mind to his people being ceased . . that god hath fore-ordained what-ever cometh to pass . . that god hath not afforded , or provided sufficiency of grace and means of salvation unto all mankind , whereby they may be saved . . that there are reprobate infants , that die in infancy , and perish eternally , only for adam 's sin imputed unto them , and derived into them . . that the light that is in every man , that convinceth them of their sins , and calleth them to leave and forsake them , is only natural , and no ways sufficient to enable any man to do any work acceptable unto god. . that christ hath not dyed for all men. . that justification is only by christ's righteousness , without us , imputed unto us , and received by faith alone , and not by any righteousness of god or christ infused into us , or wrought in us . . that beginnings of true sanctification cannot be fallen from totally . . that no man in this life , by any grace of god given him , or to be given him , can perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them in thought , word and deed. . that no man ever since the apostles days are assisted by any infallible spirit , to preach , pray or write ; and that to speak and pray by the moving of the holy ghost , as the prophets and holy men witnessed of old , is ceased . . that human and outward learning , without the saving grace of god , and the holy spirits inward revelation and inspiration , is sufficient to qualifie a man to be a preacher of the gospel . . that the scriptures ought to be believed only for their own outward evidence and testimony , and not for the inward evidence and testimony of the holy spirit in mens hearts . i expect your answer some time this day , and remain your friend , g.k. having received a blasphemous and heretical paper , subscribed by one george keith , our answer to it and him is , if he desires conference , to instruct us , let him give us his arguments in writing , as well his assertions : if to inform himself , let him write his doubts : if to cavil and disturb the peace of our churches ( which we have cause to suspect ) we have neither list nor leasure to attend his motions : if he would have a publick audience , let him print : if a private discourse , though he may know where we dwell , yet we forget not what the apostle john saith , ephes . . . july the th , . james allen , joshua moody , samuel willard , cotten mather . to james allen , joshua moody , samuel willard , cotten mather , called preachers , in boston . i received yours , wherein ye give no satisfactory nor reasonable answer to my fair proposal ; ye call my letter unto you , a blasphemous & heretical paper : but wherein it doth contain either heresie or blasphemy , ye have not mentioned , far less demonstrated : i pity your ignorance , and i perceive ye are in the same darkness and blindness of mind that the jews were in , who accused the lord jesus christ of blasphemy ; and if he were now among you in the flesh , he would meet with the same entertainment from you ; for the measure of the same spirit of truth , which is in his servants ( that dwelt in him in all fulness ) ye blaspheme against . but it is well ye have not the magistrates sword now at command , which your brethren sometime ago had , and made a woful and miserable use of it , to turn it against the innocent . and now that ye have no carnal weapons to fight with , we can find no spiritual weapons that ye have : but by silly and frivolou excuses ye seek to lurk and hide in corners , when ye are fairly , and justly required to appear in open field , to defend your false doctrin . to whom shall i liken or compare you , but to night-birds , and beasts of prey , as they are described , psal . . , , . thou makest darkness , and it is night , wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep forth , the young lyons roar after their prey , &c. the sun ariseth , they gather themselves together , and lay them down in their dens . for now that your sun of persecution is gone down , and the sun of peace is arisen , ye have no courage to appear in the open and fair field , to defend your evil cause , only in your dens , and houses into which ye have crept , where the honest people called quakers , have not occasion to hear you ; ye speak evil of things ye know not , and lie and rail against the truth . and that ye ( and not we the people called in scorn quakers ) are blasphemers , i have not only charged , but demonstrated in sundry particulars , in this treatise . and yet because i judge ye do so in ignorance , i believe it is pardonable , and if ye sincerely repent of it , it shall be forgiven you . but why are ye afraid of the light , to appear in publick , to try your spiritual strength and weapons , when your carnal are gone . is not that scripture fulfilled upon you , job ▪ , . in the dark they dig through houses , which they had marked for themselves in the day time , they know not the light ; for the morning is to them , even as the shadow of death ; if one know them , they are in the terrors of the shadow of death . i do say it in uprightness , i writ not this , boastingly , or glorying in my strength , as of self , my alone glorying is in the lord , and in his truth , which is the strongest of all , that god in his infinite mercy hath made known unto me , and the truth in the mouth or pen of the youngest child , is too strong for all the goliahs among you . remember that memorable passage of the barley-cake , that tumbled into the host of midian , as it was represented to one in a dream , which was the occasion of gideon's taking courage to go out against the midianites , who was prospered with great success , though he and his men were but a small company , judge . and also remember , how at the sounding of the rams horns , the walls of jericho fell down flat to the ground . men of an evil conscience are commonly afraid . or if ye fear your people , lest if any publick dispute should be , they might be in danger to change their mind : is it not the most effectual way to rescue your sheep , if they be in danger , suppose we be wolves ( as we thank god we are none ) to appear openly , and in a manly way against us , and not to suffer the wolves to hunt the shepherds , for that were a strange thing ; but that if ye be shepherds , ye hunt the wolves and seek them out every way , and by all means , and be glad of every occasion to find them ? and is your preaching to the people so little effectual that many years teaching them , is not sufficient to save them from the danger of two or three hours fair debating of things ? if your people were built on the rock , ye needed not fear that they would be so soon shaken . in your very short letter , ye have very many idle and frivolous suppositions . if this , and if that ; so that in six lines or seven , ye have five needless suppositions , and labour as men in a sweat , or at least seem so to do , to find out the design or intention of my writing unto you , the which is plain , without any enquiry ; for i told you very plainly , the end of my writing , was to inform you , that ye preach unto the people many false and unsound principles , pernicious to the souls of people . and if ye could not receive my information , i profered to debate these things fairly with you . and though i neither had , nor have the least mind to cavil , yet i most assuredly believe , that the peace of your churches is not the true peace of christ , but that both ye and they are set down in a false peace and rest . and therefore he , who at the command of christ jesus , and by the motion of his eternal spirit , doth proclaim a holy war , and soundeth an alarm in your ears , that christ himself is come , and more abundantly coming to take away your false peace , and to send a spiritual sword and fire unto you , is really your best friend , and such a friend i am unto you , whether ye will hear or forbear . for i came not unto you in my own will , but a necessity from the lord , by his living motion in my heart , and his living word , that was , and is as a sword and a fire , did lie upon me to clear my self among you . and seeing your churches are no true churches of christ , as i have sufficiently demonstrated in this treatise , their peace is no true peace , and therefore must and will be broken , and the sooner it be broken , the better it will prove to many poor souls among you , in order to their being gathered unto the lord. and whereas ye say in your letter , if he would have a publick audience , let him print : ye see how i have complyed with your proposal , yet not in your will , but in the will of the lord , who hath laid it upon me , and hath assisted me in this undertaking , to write this treatise , and direct it more particularly unto you , and more generally to all the presbyterian and independent teachers and people , both in new-england , or elsewhere , to whose hands by divine providence it shall come . and i require this reasonable demand of you , that seeing ye have said , let him print , that after it is come unto you , ye would seriously read it , and if it please god by it , as an instrument to convince you , through his eternal spirit , give god the glory , and confess to the truth : but if otherwise , that still ye think ye have truth on your side , then appear in print openly to defend your cause , not with railing and lies , but solid arguments , if ye can produce them . and if in some places i seem to have appeared sharp unto you , or your brethren , in this undertaking , i would have you to consider , that on a due examination , my arguments and reasons are full as sharp as my charges or conclusions ; and sharp premisses can well allow to have sharp conclusions . and what sharpness or tartness , or seeming severity i have used , true love and compassion to souls , as well as zeal to god's glory hath constrained it . sweet potions of physick are not always the most safe . the true prophets of god were generally led and moved of god , to reprove sharply the false prophets of old. and christ , and the apostles , and other true teachers , did sharply reprove false teachers in that day ; and there is the same cause now , and the same spirit of truth , and true zeal now that moveth in god's true servants in measure in this day . the precious souls of many thousands lie at stake , and therefore there ought to be plain dealing , and no daubing with untempered morter , or sowing pillows under arm-holes . i know the wrath of man doth not work the righteousness of god , and i have laboured to keep free from that human passion : and whether i have kept clear and free of it , i can , and do freely submit to the judgment of the spiritual man , who hath a spiritual discerning , and is able to judge ; but to the carnal man's judgment i have no reason to submit . and as i freely submit my spirit to be tryed , so the doctrin to him that is able , and above all , i appeal to the holy scripture , as the best outward test and touch-stone , and to the inward opening of the holy spirit , in all that are sensible of it , without which ye cannot but err , not knowing the scriptures , nor the power of god. ye decline my coming privately to your houses , citing for your warrant , john . verse . but i had no such design ; however , ye miserably misapply that place of scripture , as ye are wont to do many more . for ye take it for granted , that i bring another doctrin , than the doctrin of christ and the apostles , which i altogether deny . secondly , what john did write , was to a private woman , and therefore doth not quadrate to you , who reckon your selves publick men , and rulers as well as teachers and pastors in the church ; and i do not find any command or practice in all the scripture for you to decline a fair dispute with men , suppose hereticks or false teachers , unless ye have first dealt with them , in order to convince them : and even ye ought not to reject an heretick , till after the first and second admonition , according to scripture , but ye never as yet gave me your first : and he who is an heretick , is self condemned , which i bless god , i am not ; and ye pretend not to that spiritual discerning , whereby ye can know me to be such . it is not always one , nor divers errors or mistakes in judgment , that maketh men worthy of that odious name of heretick . the apostle john , and all the other apostles had the infallible spirit of truth , and that gave them a discerning infallibly to judge both doctrins and spirits ; but this ye neither have , nor lay claim to : and yet we find that the apostles did not shun to discourse and debate with men of ill principles , as occasion and season required . and christ also did unweariedly reason with opposers of all sorts , jews , pharisees , sadducees , &c. and paul disputed daily in the school of cyrannus , with them that opposed , and with epicureans and libertines , and others at athens , and went into the jews synagogues , and reasoned with them ; and did not excuse themselves with your silly evasion , that these men were false teachers , and therefore ought not to be disputed with . the scripture commandeth , that in meekness we should instruct them that oppose themselves , if god peradventure may give them repentance . and though this is not the work of all private christians , who have not a publick gift of teaching , and are not called to that work , yet this is no defence unto you , who pretend to be publick teachers . and if it be so , that false teachers are on no account to be received into houses , ye little consider how this weapon may ere long be turned against your selves : for my hope is , that in due time , many people , both in boston and new-england , shall have their eyes opened by the spirit of the lord , which ye blaspheme , to see your sort to be these false teachers , who bring not the doctrin of christ and the apostles , and the houses ye preach in , not being your houses , but the houses of the people , they shall not any more receive you into them , and this warrantably enough , according to your own words . but seeing ye are so unwilling that any called a quaker , should come into your houses , why should ye receive their goods ? to wit , their kettles , pewter , houshold-stuff , corn and cattel , as some , yea , many of your brethren have done , and used them as your own , though unjustly taken away from the true owners , because they would not give you maintenance . a rare and unparalled practice , no where to be traced in all the scripture , nay , not by false prophets and teachers , in like manner as ye have done . and when our honest friends have expostulated with you , why ye crave wages of them , who do not hear you ; ye have oft told them , the door is open , and have invited them to come ; yea , and some have been fined for not coming to your houses , some call churches ; but now , by your words , no quaker ( because , as ye suppose , he bringeth not the true doctrin ) is to be received into your houses ; and if this be not a contradiction , and a piece of confusion , like most of your work , let the impartial judge . and your citing places of scripture so frequently , contrary to the very intention and end of them , as i have sufficiently proved in this treatise , i know not to what other thing i can better compare it , than to turkish pirats at sea , who hang out an english flag or colours , on purpose to deceive the unwary mariners . and as i look upon you , the four preachers at boston , above-named , to be more particularly concerned in this treatise , so i do not except any others , either in new-england or any where else , who hold the same principles with you , but i do reckon them obliged , either to confess to the truth , upon real conviction ; or if otherwise , to produce their reasons against that which we believe to be the truth . i remain your real well-wisher and friend , the st of the th month , . g. k. postscript . ye shall find the twelve particular doctrins which i charged upon you and your brethren , to be false , proved to be so in distinct heads , as followeth ; the first , tenth , eleventh and twelfth articles , in cap. , , , . of this treatise ; the second and fourth , cap. . the third , fifth and sixth , cap. . the seventh in cap. . the eighth and ninth , in cap. . and the th cap. treateth of your visible church , and church-government ; and the th of your sacraments and sabbath-day . there are many other things in your said confession and catechism , contrary to the truth and doctrin of the holy scriptures , which i have passed by at present , but these i have here examined , and proved to be contrary to the holy scriptures , being the principal , and some of them fundamental , i did find my mind most concerned in ; the which being overturned , the other errors that are built upon them shall fall with them . a brief answer to some gross abuses , lies and slanders , published some years ago , by increase mather , late teacher of a church at boston in new-england , in his book , called , an essay for the recording of illustrious providences , &c. and by nath. morton , in his book , called , new-england's memorial . the said increase mather , in the eleventh chapter of his book , called , an essay , &c. relateth a long story of three mad quakers , called , thomas cases crew , one of them being a man called denham , and two women , who went down to south-hold , and they met with samuel banks of fairfield , the most blasphemous villain , as they call him , that ever was known in these parts , and some other inhabitants of that town on long-island , where they fell a dancing and singing after their diabolical manner ; and how at that time they proselyted one , called thomas harris ( belonging to boston ) to be of their way , and how after some short time , the said harris was found dead by the sea-side , with three holes like stabs in his throat , and no tongue in his head. and two other stories he subjoyneth , concerning these of the same crew , or company , called the singing and dancing quakers ; the last hath in it a relation , how the said jonathan denham ( alias singleterry ) and one mary rosse , did many frentick and diabolical tricks ; and among others , that he sacrificed a dog at plymouth-colony in new-england . and all these stories he doth relate , on purpose to abuse that honest and sober people , called quakers , without making any distinction , nor giving the least information to the world , how that the body of people called quakers , do not in the least own these ungodly and wicked people , mentioned by him , called thomas cases crew , nor any others of that sort , but have all along declared against them , and shewed the greatest dislike and abhorrency of their spirit and ways , that is possible , and all their mad and frentick tricks and freaks of singing and dancing , or any others of all kinds : and the people called quakers have suffered more abuses and insolencies , by that ungodly and wicked crew of thomas case , and others of that spirit , than any other people in these countries , whereof many sober people that do not profess themselves to be quakers , can bear witness both in long-island , and in road-island , and also at newer-sinks in east-jersey , how for many years they have molested them , frequently at their meetings , and more especially at our friends general meetings at oyster-bay , and rhoad-island , and divers other places . and when the said jonathan denham , and mary rosse were whipt by the order of the magistrates of plymouth , there were some of the honest people called quakers , present , who openly declared before the people , that the quakers did not at all own them to be of their society ; and did declare their loathing and abhorrency of their practices , and that they could not own them to be sufferers for christ's sake : and though they assume to themselves the name of quakers , and call themselves the new quakers , yet that will not follow , that they are of the society of that sober and honest people : for it is not the name or profession , that is the sign , or mark of distinction owned by that people , who own none to be of their society or fellowship , unless they walk in the truth , as well as profess it ; and the truth leads into all sobriety and gravity in all things , but into none of these mad gestures , and ungodly singings and dancings , under the pretence of raptures of heavenly joy. for although we own singing with the holy spirit , and with understanding and discretion , and giving thanks unto god , according to the scriptures , and the example of the primitive christians , yet the singing of such ungodly persons we never did , nor can own ; and we believe that weeping and howling , and bitter mourning is more proper for them . and for dancing , it was never a thing owned by that people , nor is at this day ; only thomas case and his crew lately , or of late years , have run into that , and other mad practices , by satan's instigation , nor does that crew or company of thomas case , nor himself agree in professed principles , with the people called quakers , unless it be in some general things , common to all sorts : for they are plain ranters and libertines , and upon due search and examination , their chief principle doth agree with the presbyterian and independent confession of faith , rather than with the quakers . for these ranting crew of case's followers , and himself , do say , that whatever they do , they are constrained to do it , and cannot do otherwise . and is not this the same that your confession of faith saith , that god hath fore-ordained infallibly , and unchangably whatever cometh to pass , without making any distinction ? and this increase mather hath exactly followed , and imitated the practice and example of the ancient , malicious and persecuting heathens , who , when any unlucky thing happened to be said or done , by any called christians , although they were no christians , but only assumed the name on purpose to deceive , these malicious heathens did throw it all upon the christians , without making any distinction . and the like concerning these rusticks , that rose up in war against their lawful princes in germany , and the mad crew that followed john of leiden ; the adversaries of truth did impute all this as the proper effect of the reformation . and thus also in old england , the ungodly sayings and practices of ranters and libertines ▪ have been odiously cast upon the people called quakers ; whereas it is well known that the people called quakers , have always with great zeal , opposed the ranters and libertines , both in their principles and practices , and have shewed their zeal against them , both in disputing and printing against them , more than any people have done ; and have been a great occasion and means of suppressing that evil spirit in them , so that little of it hath for many years openly appeared in old england ; and the same ranting spirit is greatly decaying of late years , in these american parts , and we hope ere long it shall be quite gone . and let the impartial judge , whether it can be any other thing but malice , as well as rashness ( as he hath shewed his rashness and folly in some other passages of his life , if not malice , that hath occasioned him for some time past to abscond , and depart from the place , where he preached at boston ) in this increase mather , to charge the crimes of the guilty upon the innocent , without distinction , when it is notoriously known , both in new-england , and in all other places , where the people called quakers live , that they never did own any of these people , from the first instant , that they appeared in any of these practices . and seeing ye of the presbyterian and independent churches of new-england , cannot but acknowledge , that too many unlucky and unchristian practices have fallen out , and have been committed by your church-members , as whoredom , drunkenness , and and the like , &c. yet if when upon your first discovery of these things , ye have disowned them , and sufficiently cleared your selves of them , we are more men , and more reasonable than to charge these things upon you : and when judas betrayed christ his lord and master , though he was one of the twelve , and numbred among them , should therefore this great crime of judas be cast upon the eleven that were innocent ? or when david committed these two great sins of murder and adultery , should this be cast upon the faithful people of god in that day , who were in society formerly with him ? or should the crime of the incestuous person at corinth , because of him , be cast upon all other christians ? if this be not equal , ( as all sober men will say , it is not equal ) it is no more equal , but abominably unjust , to throw the crimes of thomas case , or his crew , upon the honest people called quakers , of whose society and spirit they are not . and the said increase mather may with the same impudence , charge all the abominable heresies of the manichees , nicolaitans , ebionites , and all others upon the christians , because all went under that general name of christians in these days . and these of case's crew , they call themselves christians , and so doth increase mather , doth it therefore follow , that their crimes on that only account should be charged upon him ? let him see how he can answer to these things , or any of his brethren , or kindred for him , in his absence . it wanteth to be inserted in his book , that what hath befallen him of late , is a remarkable judgment of god upon him , for his injustice to the quakers , and his unjust charging the innocent with the crimes of the guilty . nor is his last story , concerning one robert churchman , living at balsham in cambridge-shire in old england , related by h. moor , of any more weight or validity , to discredit the religion or profession of the people called quakers , than the former . why ? the said churchman had only some inclination to be a quaker , ( but we do not find in all the relation , that ever he was a professed quaker , and owned by that people ) and some whimsies , or fancies did take him in the head for some time , that he supposed he was inspired with the spirit of god , and that the spirit of god did speak in him ; and at last , it appeared that it was not really so , but that the man was under some mistake , or delusion , or suppose a real possession of the devil , or was mad : what can all this say in the least , to discredit the quaker's religion , or principle ? have there not been mad people , and whimsical , both of the presbyterian and independent churches ? yea , doth not increase mather relate how , that ann cole of hartford in new england , that was esteemed a godly and gracious woman , and i suppose a member of some independent church , or presbyterian , otherwise it is not like he would have so commended her , that she was really bodily possessed with the devil ( see his fifth chapter ) but this doth not infer , that either the presbyterian , or independent profession of religion , by increase mather his own judgment , is of the devil ; yea , and some belonging to their churches in new-england , have very lately been convicted of witchcraft at boston . it cannot be denied , but that madness , and melancholy whimsies and fancies , may befall some of all professions , called christians , the causes of which are best known unto the lord. but it is altogether unmanly , and inhuman , as well as unchristian , to charge these things upon the whole profession . we have always asserted it , that it is one thing to profess to be led by the spirit of god , and another thing to be really and in deed led by it . we are not ignorant how many have both said and done very bad things , under a pretence of being led by the spirit of god , and of having the spirit to be their rule ; and yet this is no argument against the leading and rule of the spirit of god , no more than it is an argument against the scripture , that many have done bad things , and pretended they have had the scripture to be their rule in what they did ; as in the late wars in old england and scotland , when they rose up against the lawful authority , wherein many both presbyterians and independents were concerned , they all did pretend they had the scripture to be their rule in what they did ; and yet surely , the scripture was no rule nor warrant unto them in these bad practices . the leadings of the true spirit of god are known , both by the first motions , and also by the effects and fruits that follow after ; and that is to deny all vngodliness and vnrighteousness , and to live soberly , and godly , and righteously in this present world , and to follow , and be found in doing whatsoever things are true , honest , just , pure , virtuous , and praise worthy , and of good report among these who have a spiritual ability to judge of things that differ , as too many have not . and we are well assured , that the spirit of god never teacheth , nor leadeth any to think , say , or do what is contrary to the declared will of god in the holy scriptures , nor to that holy and righteous law , that is writ by the finger of god upon the hearts of men universally , which is the substance of the decalogue that god writ upon the two tables of stone . and we readily grant , that whoever pretend to follow the spirit of god , to be their inward guide and rule , should be very cautious and wary , lest the evil spirit that doth , and can transform himself into many likenesses , but always short of the truth ; step in and deceive . but there is a most safe and sure way for every one , to be sure , that they are not deceived , and shall never be , in any matter of moment , and that is for every one to be faithful unto god in these moral duties , or any other things which they know infallibly , and are generally agreed upon by all christians , to be good things , for such have the promise of god , that they shall be preserved from being deceived . and whereas the said increase mather hath writ so many remarkable judgments of god , that have come upon notorious offenders , on purpose to record them in print ; and that he saith , cap. . we may not judge of men meerly by outward accidents , which befall them in this world , &c. and some lines after , he saith , nevertheless a judgment may be so circumstanced , as that the displeasure of heaven is plainly written upon it in legible characters : and in this he saith true , but he should have added , that such men who can read the same , must not be blind , but have the true eye opened in them , otherwise they will make a wrong construction of these things . there wants to be inserted , or added to his book the many signal and manifest judgments of god , that came upon the people of new-england in general , and upon divers particular persons , the main actors , for that horrible persecution they raised against that honest people called quakers , and putting to death four of the lord's servants , for which the name of these actors and abettors , are a stink over many places of the world : and of these judgments in general , the blasting of their wheat generally ever since they put our worthy friends to death at boston ; and the indian wars that soon after followed , whereby many english were destroyed ; and after that , but of late years , a dreadful visitation of the small-pox , called by some the black pock , that cut off very many , both at boston , and else-where , of which they were fore-warned by a woman that came from barbadoes , and went into some of their meetings , with her face all made black , for a sign of what was coming upon them , she being one of these people called quakers , and owned by them in that very testimony , which she declared , she was moved by the lord to come from barbadoes to bear among them , her name being margaret brewster ; to which may be added , the taking away their charter , and power ( which they so grosly abused , in turning the sword against the innocent ) one cause of which was their persecuting the quakers unto death ; and the manifest judgments of god that came upon divers particular persons , notorious persecutors of that innocent people , are very observable , as major adarton , who joyned in passing sentence of death against some of these servants of the lord who suffered death at boston , who not long after was killed with a cow ; and that horton , preacher at boston , a great persecutor , who dyed suddainly , as he was walking in his house after sermon , and captain davenport , another great persecutor , who was killed with lightning . and though the said increase mather doth relate the suddain deaths of both these men , he altogether omitteth these great circumstances , of their being great persecutors ; the which ommission , whether it was wilfully in him , or not , i shall not determine . but it is the more memorable , that the said major adarton , being warned before-hand , of the judgment of god , he made light of it , as i was informed by some in new-england , who had the relation of it , from some that did so warn him , being of that persecuted people . and also it is very memorable , how one of these persecuted servants of the lord , called quakers , did plainly fore-tell , that the house of governor indicot , a greater persecutor , should be left desolate , and become a dunghil ; as did accordingly come to pass ; and hath been observed by divers , to have been a real prophecy , divine justice and providence did so bring it about . there are many other instances and examples might be mentioned , some of which i refer to george bishop his book , called , new-england judged , to be there read and considered . i shall only add one passage more , which i was informed of , and had it writ from some of the people of barnstable , how that from an honest-man , a quaker , in the town of barnstable , were taken four cows , with some calves , the quaker's name being ralph jones , who is yet alive ; and these cattel were taken away by the preacher of that town , his son-in-law , who had married his daughter , and returned to the priest as a part of his wages . the priest sent to ralph jones , to tell him , he might have two of his cows returned to him , if he would send for them : but he never sent , and so the said priest used them , and disposed of them as his own , killed one of the calfs , and sent a part of it to his daughter , that lay in child-bed ; she no sooner did eat a little of the calf , but fell into a great trouble , and cryed , return home the man's cows , i hear a great noise of them ; and so dyed in that trouble . the priest alledged the quakers had bewitched his daughter , although it cannot be proved , that ever they had any business with her . but to what evil construction will not malice and hypocrisie , and covetousness bend a thing ? some time after the said preacher killed some of these cows , to be eat in his house , saying , he would try if the quakers could bewitch him ; and not long after he dyed , even before the flesh of these cows were all eat . the passage is so fresh in that town , that it is acknowledged by divers of the neighbours to be true : and as great havock was made upon this honest man , and upon many in sandwich , a neighbouring town , and in many other places , so much more might have been expected , had not their violence been restrained by the king 's granting an indulgence to all tender consciences . next , as to nath. morton , in his book , called new-england's memorial , pag. . he chargeth the quakers with corrupt and damnable doctrin in the following particulars . . that the holy scriptures were not for the enlightning of man , nor a setled and permanent rule of life . the which charge is false ; for we have granted , that the scriptures are a rule of life , & so we do still , & the best outward rule that can be found : but we say , they are not the only rule , nor , being compared with the inward rule of god's holy spirit , are they above it , but inferior and under it , and ought only to be used in subordination to it . and if the scripture were the only rule , as our adversaries say , then all poor heathens should have no rule , nor law , and consequently no sin , nor judgment , which is false . and we deny not , but the scriptures are a means of our enlightning , as god the father of lights , is pleased to cause his light to shine unto us in our hearts , in the serious and faithful hearing , reading and meditating on the scriptures , &c. but not otherwise , even as the air , or windows of a house , are means of letting in the sun 's light to us ; but if the sun shine not , neither the air nor window can give us light . . that they denyed the manhood of the lord jesus christ , and affirmed , that as man he is not in heaven . this is a notorious false charge , which they can never prove : and in this treatise in several places , i have given a large testimony to the man christ jesus in heaven ; and how he is the object and foundation of the christians faith , as the mystery of his coming in the flesh , death and sufferings , &c. is inwardly opened , revealed and applyed by the holy spirit in men's hearts . . that they deny the resurrection of the dead . this is also a most false charge , which they can never prove : but because we deny their carnal conceptions of the resurrection , and hold us to scripture-words , which is most safe , therefore they have so belyed us . and for the more satisfaction of the reader , i refer him to a little book called , the principles of truth , published by some noted men of the quakers , in which book it is expresly affirmed , that we ( to wit , the quakers ) believe , that the same body which is laid down , shall be raised up at the resurrection of the dead , as much as a natural body , can be the same with a spiritual body , on an earthly body can be the same with a heavenly body , according to the scriptures testimony ; it is sown natural , but raised spiritual , and the glory of the heavenly is one , and the glory of the earthly is another . and this may satisfie any sober enquirer : and paul writing concerning the resurrection of the dead , saith , that is not first which is spiritual , but that which is natural , ( or animal ) and afterwards that which is spiritual , cor. . . and vers . . as we have born the image of the earthly , we shall also bear the image of the hevenly : he that readeth , let him understand . . that an absolute perfection in holiness , or grace is attainable in this life . . that they placed their justification upon their patience , and sufferings for their opinions , and on their righteous life ; both which are grosly false charges , and the contrary of which i have shewed in this treatise at length in their proper places . . they allowed not , nor practised any civil respect to magistrates , parents , &c. this also is grosly false , there are divers other ways sufficient whereby to shew both our civil and christian respect to magistrates and parents , &c. ( without either doffing the hat , or cringing ) and that both in words and gestures . there are only two other things which he chargeth , that we grant to be true , but deny them to be either damnable , or corrupt doctrin , but affirm them to be truly christian ; one is , that all men ought to attend to the light within them , to be the rule of their lives and actions . but if this be corrupt and damnable doctrin , he accuseth his own brethren , who in their confession of faith , say , that there are many sins that men commit against the law or light of nature , as they call it , which are the more hainous . and surely that is a light within them , and is e'en so far a rule of life , containing , as is commonly acknowledged the substance of the ten commandments ; see their answer to quest . . larger catechism . but we do not say , that that general illumination that is in all men , many of whom have not the scriptures , is a rule to oblige them to believe and receive these great mysteries of christianity , declared in the scriptures , which they who have not the scriptures , have not revealed unto them . the other is , that we deny the use of oaths : but this is no corrupt , but truly christian doctrin , which saith , swear not at all , mat. . . it is a marvelous thing , that these men have no other ways to oppugne the quakers , but by grose 〈…〉 lies , and false calumnies , and 〈◊〉 abuses , like unto the ways that ever the 〈◊〉 sort of the adversaries of truth have used against the true witnesses of it . it had been more manly , and seemingly christian , for increase mather and nath. morton , or any others of their sect or society , fairly to have stated the quakers principles , and then to have gone and refuted them by the best or strongest arguments they could find : but this none of them have done , nor did i ever see to this day any one writer , that did write against the quakers , that did fairly state their principles , but miserably belyed , and abused them , either by affirming things to be their principles , which were not , or by so unfairly representing and wresting the words of our honest friends , by their addings and diminishings , that they could not at all acknowledge them as such ; all which is a manifest evidence of the weakness & badness of their cause , as well as of that evil conscience that is in them , when they use such unlawful ways and means to defend themselves , or to oppugne others . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e read and well consider ezekiel . . . cor. . . the cause of god and his people in new-england as it was stated and discussed in a sermon preached before the honourable general court of the massachusets colony, on the day of may, , being the day of election at boston / by john higginson ... higginson, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h estc w ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the cause of god and his people in new-england as it was stated and discussed in a sermon preached before the honourable general court of the massachusets colony, on the day of may, , being the day of election at boston / by john higginson ... higginson, john, - . 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bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng congregational churches -- new england. elections -- massachusetts -- sermons. sermons, american -- th century. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - john pas sampled and proofread - john pas text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the cause of god and his people in new-england , as it was stated and discussed in a sermon preached before the honourable general covrt of the massachvsets colony , on the day of may . being the day of election at boston . by john higginson pastor of the church of christ at salem . mat. . . and jesus said unto them , render unto cesar the things that are cesars : and unto god the things that are gods. pet. . . honour all men , love the brotherhood , fear god , honour the king. chron. . . and of the children of issachar , which were men that had understanding in the times , to know what israel ought to do . cambridg , printed by samuel green . christian reader , the curse of god and his people ( which is the subject of this following pious and elabourate discourse ) never 〈◊〉 more ●●lp from heaven , nor more servant prayers from earth , to be put up to the god of heaven , for then a●●aming of it , t●●● 〈◊〉 this time . for some there are ( and not a sin ) that are so engaged to their own interests , that le● the cause of god and his people , sink or swim , they care not , so their own ●nds be compassed , and their own designe & projects may find sure foo●●ng : and these are your self-loving worldly politici●ns , that are of this world , as christ speaks and savour nothing but the things of the world , and seek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that seek their own and not the things of jesus christ . others there are so dissolute and prophane , & are risen up to such as height of impiety , that they do no more regard this cause , than the air● under then ●●et , they are so around in drink & other sensual deli●hts his , and are so heightned in their oaths & blasphe●●● and other abominations , tha● god and his peoples c●●se are not in their thoughts : 〈◊〉 if at any time this c●●se come into them 〈◊〉 as , it is only to cast the foulest pers●●●● they can upon it , and to be spatter 〈◊〉 with the ba●●st obliquies and 〈◊〉 speeches that the devil & their own cursed hearts can invent , and to persecute it wi●● tongue & 〈◊〉 and heart & hand to the highest degree of persecution , even unto bloud and sl●ughter : though when they have done all that ever they 〈◊〉 , they shall not be able to 〈◊〉 the cause nor the faithfull servants of christ that ●●●ck 〈◊〉 ; but as the primitive believers said of persecuting nero , nero may kill us , but he cannot hurt us ; so may we say now . others there are that seem to own this cause and adventure much this way , and may not only be willing to lose their liberty & estates , & the favour of great freinds , but go further also , yet afterward turn away & draw back , and these are hypocrites , which are either taken with the eye-lids of the aluring harlot the world , in the profits , pleasures & honours of it , or else are afraid of her frownes & discouragements , after all their former sufferings : they have ventured so far , but dare go no further , and so lise all they have wrought , and suffer in vain , these are not true to the ca●se of god and his people , and by their puting away a good conscience , and wan● of self-denial , make shipwrack of the faith and cause we speak of . only there is a very few sincere ones that hold their own , and in the worst times deale p●●●ently , and discern both time and judgment , and are valiant for this c●●se . all which duty weighed and seriously considered , no wonder that this holy man of god being guided by his spirit , made choise of this subject to preach upon , in that great assembly at the court of election , now in these dayes wherin so many turne their backs of god , and set themselves so desparately against h●● , & his peoples cause . i was to star● us all up to besiege & beleag●● the ●●r●e of grace now in th●se last and pe●il●us dayes and times , to awake & stand to maintaine this cause , & to shew forth his almighty power in crushing all the designes , and out-plotting all the plots of sathan & his instruments that undermine this cause , and the lord help us all to attend what god by his spirit speaks to us , and now if ever , to pray & give god no rest , ●ll this cause be maintained against the faces & forces of all its enemies . the sermon when preached was acceptable to all , and found general approbation among all the wise-hearted and godly , so far as we have heard . reader thou hast i● to peruse , read it , understand thy time according to it , let the cause of god and his people lie neerer to thine heart then ever , and let thy so●l awake more to be a prince with god to prevaile , that this cause may be main a●ed & upheld against all the powers of darkness , and all the conspiracies of men on earth , and devills in hell , that it may be victorious , & ride in triumph till christ come , who will own is before the whole world , and them that have stood for it , though it have cost them dear from those that have been the d●spisers of it . we have no more to say , but to desire from our hearts that the blessing of heaven may go along with the labour of his servant in this work , and that be & we , and whosoever read it , may find this fruit that we may tread in this wise kings steps , who prayed so fervently , that god would maintain his cause & his peoples alwayes , as the matter shall require ; prayer of faith opens all dores , prevailes for all blessings , hath such power with god that it never comes away empty , but as that renowned emperour said , that he never sent any su●er ●●d w●● from his presence , so we may be sure that the lord will do to them that sue to him , giving them all that they seek to him for ( especially in maintaining his own and his peoples cause , which he cannot s●e forsaken ) and will not send his suiters and suppliants sad away from him , they are bidden to come with boldnesse to ●he throne of grace . one word more & we have done , jesus christ that great favourite by whom both our persons and prayers are accepted , and this cause comes to be maintained for the much incense that he offers up with the prayers of all saints , prevailes ever for us , & this cause when it and we the honour of both are laid most in the dust . to this lord jesus , with the blessed father and eternal spirit , be glory and power everlasting . amen . thine in him who is ●o● love and life , john wilson , senior . samuel whit●ng . the cause of god and his people in new-england , stated and discussed . king. . , , . the lord our god be with us , as he was with our fathers , let him not leave us nor forsake us ; that be may encline our hearts unto him , to walke in all his wayes , and to keep his commandements , his statutes and his judgments which he commanded our fathers . and let these my words wherewith i have made supplication before the lord , be nigh unto the lord our god day and night , that he maintain the cause of his servant , and the cause of his people israel at all times , as the matter shall require . in the beginning of this chapter , we read of a general assembly of the representative body of the people of israel : thus in verse . then solomon assembled the elders of israel , and all the heads of the tribes , the chiefe of the fathers of the children of israel : and verse , . and all the men of israel assembled themselves , and all the elders of israel came . the special end of this great assembly is shewed in verse . they brought in the ark of the covenant of the lord into his place , in the house of the lord. upon this occasion solomon makes a large prayer for the welfare and prosperity of the people of israel which begins at the and continues to the . verse , wherin he mentions all the common cases which might in changes of time befall the people of israel , and he commends their condition to the lord for special mercy & help in such cases as are expressed in the . verse ; if ne●● be famine , or pestilence , or warrs or captivity , if there be these or such like cases , and thy people israel do repent and confess thy name , and pra●● ; then hear thou in heaven and forgive , and do for them , and hearken to them in all that they call upon ●hee for . this is the sūme of his prayer . at the conclusion of which he pronounceth a solemn blessing upon the congregation verse ; he stood and blessed all the congregation of is●●● . this blessing of solomon consists in three things . a thankfull acknowledgment of present and former mercy , that hitherto the lord had given them rest . verse ; blessed be the lord that 〈◊〉 given ●●st 〈◊〉 people israel . a renewed prayer for a threefold blessing to be farther granted , bo●●at the present and for future times . and that he prayes for the gracious presence of god , even such a gracious presence of god with them as their fathers had enjoyed . verse ; the lord our god be with us 〈…〉 with our father ; and because his heart was much in this , therefore he repeats it againe , let him not leave us nor forsake us . . he payes so divine assistance verse . that he may encline our hearts unto him to walk in his wayes , and to keep his commandements , which he commanded our fathers . . his third request is for divine protection verse . let these my prayers be high to the lord our god , that his 〈◊〉 the cause of his people israel , which is amplyfied by the end of it ; that all the people of the 〈◊〉 may know that the lord is god and that there is none el●●● verse . . and th●n the last particular wherein he blesseth the people is , by exhorting them to upright waking with god. let your heart therefore be perfect with the lord our god , ●o walk in his statutes and to keep his commandements as at this a●y , verse . the text ( as you see falls within the compass of solomons blessing upon the representatative body of the people of israel . from the whole you may please to take notice of this observation in the generall , which i shall but briefly touch upon . doct. the lords gracious presence with his people inclining their hearts to keep his commandements , and maintaining their cause ; is a sufficient means to establish the welfare of such a people , even at their own hearts can wish . for thus did solomon bless the heads of the tribes of israel , and he had the hearts of the whole congregation going along with him , that if the lord would but grant his presence with them , his assistance of them , and his protection over them , they had enough , they could have no more , they could be no better in this world . and if we our selves now might have our wish , if the lord should say to us as ahas●●rus to esther , what is thy petition ? or as he said sometime to solomon , ask what i shall give thee ; what could any of us , or all of us desire more then this ? that the lord our god would be with us , as he hath been with our fathers , that he would incline our hearts to keep his commandements which be commanded our fathers , and that he would maintaine his own and his peoples cause amongst us : what can be desired and enjoyed by us more then this ? for , doth not immanuel , god with us , comprehend our whole good ? and the keeping of gods commandements containe our whole duty● and is not the lords maintaining the cause of his people enough to keep off whatever might interrupt or hinder us in the performing this duty , and enjoying that good wherein the utmost happyness of a people on this side heaven doth consist ? let these requests ( therefore ) dwell upon the hearts of all the lords people , let us bear them continually upon our hearts before the lord , that as hitherto , so still , he may graunt unto all his servants , both magistrates , ministers , and people , his gracious presence , divine assistance , and divine protection in the times that are come upon us . this is the summe of all that we need or can receive , or can desire whilest we are here tossed in the troublesome sea of this world , passing to the haven of eternall rest . but i shall not further insist upon this . it is another doctrine which i mainly intend from the latter part of the verse . that he maintaine the cause of his people at all times as the matter shall require . there are two things need a little opening here . . what is meant by the cause of his people israel . . what is meant by the lords maintaining the cause of his people at all times as the matter shall require . . by [ because of his people ●r●● ] i understand the same which in other scriptures is called the cause of g●● , p●●l . ● . arise o god and plead thy own cause . so that there is a cause of god in the world , ( mark i beseech you ) there is a cause which is god own cause : a●●se o lord and plead h●● own ●use . and if you please but to cast●y ur●ey upon two or three passages of that psalm , we need go no further to understand clearly , what is the cause of god 〈◊〉 . have respect unto the covenant , the cause of god is the cause of his covenant it is also the cause of his temple the dwelling place of his name , verse . and further , it is the cause of his church , verse . remember thy congregation which thou hast purchased of old , thine inheritance which thou hast redeemed , this mount sion wherein thou hast dwel● , i. e. his church , and so in the verse you read of the synagogues of god in the land. now the very same was the cause of his people israel , for the speciall end of the great assembly mentioned in this chapter , it was to bring in the ark of the covenant into the house of the lord : by virtue of which covenant the lord was their god and they were his people ; and , the cause of god was theirs , and their cause was his ; the cause of god & his people israel was one and the same , and that was the cause of religion according to the word of god. therefore in the text here solomon prayes that the hearts of his people might be enclined to walk in gods wayes and to keep his commandements . againe , it is observable , the word rendred cause here in the text is translated [ right ] in the margine of the . & . verses , that he maintain the right of his people , there is a right unto house and land and the like , but there is a jus divinum , a speciall divine right which the people of israel had unto the one true religion , and a liberty annexed unto that right that none could lawfully hinder them from enjoying all that belonged to the service of god. so that ( in one word ) the cause of his people israel was right from god , and liberty from god , to keep gods commandements in matters of religion . this was the cause of god and israel then , and i hope it will appear anon , that the very same is the cause of god and his people now . . what is meant by [ the lords maintaining this cause at all times as the matter shall require ] he had made the same request twice before verse . & . that he maintain his peoples cause ; here he mentions it againe the third time , that he maintain the cause of his people israel , with an addition of this further expression , at all times as the matter shall require . he had before in his large prayer comprehended all the common cases which might fall out ; but because there might be other cases which he could not foresee , or they might be otherwise circumstanced , when the cause of israel might be so endangered , as there would not be any help in the ey of reason in the sight of man , therefore he commends the cause of his people israel to the lord himselfe , and leaves it with him , and beseecheth him , that he by his prerogative would maintain the cause of his people , even as the matter should require . and those words in the text [ at all times ] are in the margine rendred [ the thing of a day in his day ] i. e. not onely in the day of prosperity when things go smoothly on ; but in the dayes of adversity , in the hirracano's of tempestuous times , when it is a day of trouble and rebuke , and blasphemy , as is was in hezekiahs time , isai . . . in a day of perplexity and treading down , isai . . in such a day as this , the cause of god and israel is committed to the lord himself that he would maintain it . and there is an emphasis to be observed in that word [ he ] that he maintain it , when there is none else that will , or can , or knowes how : implying the need ( the extream need ) that the people of israel might sometimes have for the lord himselfe to maintain their cause above all that themselves , or any else should be able to doe . so that the point of doctrine which i would commend unto the consideration of this present assembly from hence , is this . doct. the times may be such , and the case may be such , as the maintaining of the cause of religion , may need and require more then ordinary help from the lord himself . the times may be so perillous , and the case so circumstanced , and the cause of religion so endangered , as it may be above the wisedom of man to direct , or the hand of man to help : then there is work for jehovah himselfe , for him to maintain his own and his peoples cause , you see the point : a little for the proof . it is many times the cry of the church of god in the world , give us help from trouble o lord , for vaine is the help of man , psal . . last . and our help is in the name of the lord , who made the heavens and the earth , psal . last . there is creating wisedom & power and goodness with him , that is god over all , blessed for evermore , there and from thence alone is the help of his people when it s no where else to be seen upon earth . i shall add no more but that in isai . . . i looked and there was none to help , and i wondred that there was none to uphold , therefore mine own arm brought salvation ●●ne , and my fury it upheld mee . our saviour christ is here brought in speaking of himself , not as chri●●nall , but as christ mysticall , christ and ●is church as be●…ers , engaged together in the same cause , and the cause of christ and his church is represented here as in a dispairing sinking case , i looked and there was none to help , i wondred that there was 〈◊〉 to uphold : what then ? why , therfore mine own arm brought salvation ●o me : the church when sinking , yet saved by christ , the cause of god and his people when ready to be overturned , overwhelmed ; yet then ●reserved , secured maintained , by the outstretched a●m of a blessed ●aviour : implying , the case may be such , and the matter may so require , that no less then the infinite wisedom , and good pleasure of of omnipotencie it selfe can do the deed . this may suffice for the proof . there is a three f●ld reason may convince us of the truth of the doctrine . . from the weakness of man. . from the malice of the devil . . from the providence of god. reas . . the first reason is taken from the weakness of men , from the inability of gods own people , who are affected unto this cause , and engaged in it , but are not able to maintain it . the best of the saints have flesh as well as spirit , they have something of the old man , as well as of the new ; they know but in part , and are sanctified but in part : and hence many weaknesses in managing the cause of god. there is a mixture of hypocrites amongst the sincere servants of god , who pretend unto this cause as well as they ; and hence many times not onely weakness but wickedness is inter-woven into the fairest pretences to the cause of god. there are various apprehensions , affections , and passions , amongst good men . moses the servant , and aaron the saint of the lord , are sometimes unadvised : and when they are most upright , when they lead the people according to the ●kilfulness of their hands , and integrity of their heart , yet then traduced , reproached , opposed , et tantum n●n , overpoured by a murmuring people , and there were men of renown and famous in the congregation , that would not submit unto gods order . sometimes ( alas ) there is a sharp contention between paul and barnabas : and godly peter doth not ever walk with a right foot : and blessed paul when most faithfull and true , is under evill surmises , as a deceiver . there is names and parties of men , dividing christ amongst them : some departing from the faith , others led aside from the simplicity of the gospel , on the right hand , and on the left , and many ( in the last dayes very many ) that have the form but deny the power of godlyness . hence the cause of religion much obscured and ready to be spoyled in the hands of those that profess to be the lovers of it . that is the first reason . reas . . taken from the malice of the devil , and his instrumentie satan from the beginning hath had an old grudg against the seed of the woman , and he never wanted instruments , who either by force or fraud or both , have done what mischief they could against the church and cause of god. thus in the story of exodus , pharoah at first works , wisely to undermine , afterwards he works proudly to overtake and destroy the israel of god. thus also in psal . . , , . keep not silence o god , for ●thine enemies make a tumult , they have consulted together , they have said , come let us cut them off that the name of israel be had no more in remembrance ; and then there is mention made of gebal , ammon , and amalek and many others . and in the time of ezra , and nehemiah , no sooner had zerubbabel and joshua and the rest of the poor people of israel begun to reform and set themselves about the work of the lord , but sathan stood up to resist them , as it is in zech. . . & he had instruments at hand presently sanballat and tobia , with their complices , nehem. . . and our adversaries said they shall neither see , nor know , till we be in the midst amongst them , and slay them and cause their work to cease , thus also in ezr. . . you read of rehum the chancellor , and shi●shi the scribe , with the rest of their companions , pleading much the damage and dishonour of the king as in verse . and when they had got a commission they went up in hast unto jerusalem to cause the work to cease , and in the verse . they made them cease by force and power , though it was but for a time as it appeares afterwards . and if you look into rev. . . you shall find there in relation to the last times , it is said , wee to the inhabitants of the earth , and of the sea , for the devil is come down amongst you , and his rage is great , because he hath but a short time , the shorter the time the fiercer the rage of sathan against all that keep the commandements of god , and the faith of jesus ; & where ever he can prevail , down goes the divine authority of the scriptures , and up goes the commandements of men in the worship of god : and all that will not doe , must suffer , and all that bear witness to truth and holiness , must be in sackcloth until the time of the end. now from hence ( againe ) the cause of religion is much endangered by the haters of it . that is the second reason . reas . . the last reason is taken from afflicting providence , he ( the great god ) changeth the times and the seasons , dan. . . the history of the church in all ages hath informed us of this , that after a time of peace , comes a time of trouble , after a time of l●berty ( to be as good as men would be and as they should be ) there comes a time of restraint : and sometimes even in the valley of vision there is a day of perplexitie and treading down , and that from the lord god of hostes , as it is in isai . . . and though it hath been questioned whether dioclesians persecution or julians toleration were more pernicious to the church of god , yet without question neither of these was without the providence of god. when the people of god know not how to use their peace and liberty , when they have contracted the guilt of the sins of such times , it is but righteous with the lord to bring them into bondage , that they may know the service of the lord with such a kind of knowledg as adam had after his fall , to know good by the want and evil by the feeling of it , by terrible thing● in righteousness wilt thou answer us o god , who yet art the god of our salvation and the confidence of such as are in the ends of the earth , psal . . . but from hence also the cause of religion comes to be in the same condition as the ship in which the disciples went when christ was asleep , there came down such a storm upon the l●●● , and they were so covered with the waves , and in such jeopardy , they were faine to cry out unto him , master save us or we perish . gather up the reasons briefly . if the lovers of the cause of religion be so unable to preserve it , if the haters of it be so sedulous to destroy it , and if the lord himselfe seem to withdraw from it ; then it is no wonder if the times be such , and the case be such , as the maintaining of the cause of religion doth need and require more then ordinary help from the lord himselfe . by this time you see the truth of the doctrine . now let us consider the good of it in application to our selves , and that but in a couple of uses . the one for the information of our judgments . the other for direction in point of practice . vse . we may hence informe our selves , not only what the cause of god and his people is in other parts ; but what it is here with us . i say , to informe us what is the cause of god and his people in new-england . this is the first use . a mistake in this may be of dangerous consequence ; the true stating of this cause , and the right understanding of it , may be of no little help unto us in the times that are come upon us . for it is more then our lives , and as much as our soules are worth , to own the cause of god , and to be faithfull to it in our generation : to confess or deny this cause , is in scripture interpretation to confess or deny christ himselfe , and you know what he hath said in mat. . . whosoever shall confess me before men , him will i confess before my father which is in heaven , but whosoever shall deny me before men , him will i deny before my father which is in heaven : and in the eighth of mark and verse . whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation , ●f him also shall the son of man be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his father with all his holy angels . give me leave then i beseech you , honoured and beloved , to present a few things unto you about this caus● . i confess i should be utterly inexcusable in adventuring to shew my weakness in such a place at such a time as this , were i not able to call the most h●●h to witness that nothing but conscience of my duty put me and kept me upon this subject : when i received the summons of the honourabl● g●● to preach it this time , it was desired that some suitable word might be spoken : now whether the stating of the cause of god and his people amongst u● be not seasonable , i leave to the consideration of ●his ●wful and 〈◊〉 a●s●h . and i hope ●n the lord i shall say nothing about it , but what might be more abundantly made out by scripture light , and what the generallity of all the people of god ( not engaged unto parties ) will readily subscribe unto . first then , in the general the cause of god and his people amongst us is the cause of religion , i say the cause of religion 〈◊〉 the profession and practize of the one true religion to be in all thing , according to gods word . this was the cause of god and israel then , the same is the cause of god and his people now . to keep and seek for all the commandements of god. to walk in his waies and to keep his commandements which he commanded our fathers , as it is in the text : that every thing in doctrine worship and discipline be conformed unto and regulated by the rule of the word . this is the cause of god and his people in new-england in the generall . but that it may be more clearly understood , let me propound it more particularly both in the negative , what this cause is not , and in the affirmative what it is . and first negatively . it is . not the getting of this worlds good . . not separation from other churches . . not a toleration of all religions . . not the getting of this worlds good . the cause we are speaking of , it never was , it is not now , the getting & increasing of this worlds good . our saviour christ hath commanded , seek first the kingdome of god and the righteousness therof , and all other things shall be added mat. . accordingly when the lord stirred up the spirits of so many of his people to come over into this wilderness , it was not for worldly wealth , or a better livelyhood here for the outward man : the generallity of the people that came over professed the contrary : nor had we any rationall grounds to expect such a thing in such a wilderness as this . and though god hath blessed his poor people here with an addition of many earthly comforts , and there are that have encreased here from small beginnings to great estates , that the lord may call this whole generation to witness and say , o generation see the word of the lord , have i been a wilderness unto you ? jer. . . o generation see ! look upon your towne , & fields , look upon your habitations & shops and ships , and behold your numerous posterity , and great encrease in the blessings of the land & sea , have i been a wilderness unto you ? we must needs answer , no lord , thou hast been a gracious god , and exceeding good unto thy servants , ever since we came into this wilderness , even in these earthly blessing , we live in a more plentifull & comfortable manner then ever we did ●x●●ct . but these are but additions , they are but additionall mercies , it was another thing and a better thing that we followed the lord into the wilderness for . my fathers and brethren this is never to be forgotten , that new-england is originally plantation of religion , not a plantation of trade . let merchants and such as are increasing cent per cent remember this , let others that have come over since at several times understand this , that worldly gain was not the end and designe of the people of new-england , but religion . and if any man amongst us make religion as twelve , and the world as thirteen , let such an one know he hath neither the spirit of a true new-england man , nor yet of a sincere christian . . not separation from other churches , either in our own or other countries ; i say , not separation from any thing good in other churches , whether truth of church estate , or any doctrine professed , or any ordinance administred , so far as it was , or is agreeable to the word of god. we deny not the being of churches , where many things are wanting to their well-being . we distinguish between the corruptions and disorders of churches , and the churches themselves . we profess communion with , not separation from the churches of christ in lawfull things . they are the european churches , in which that numerous company of . are said to stand with the ●amb upon mount sion , rev. . . and these are said to ●●●p the commandements of god and the faith of jesus verse . it is the doctrine and worship of the reformed churches comming out of popery which are said to be as a sea of glass man led with 〈◊〉 , r●● . . if g●●● , then they are not clear as cristall , as those in the primitive times chap. and yet not as the blood of a dead man , as those under popery ch●● . . . it 〈◊〉 a sea of gl●ss mingled with ●●r , ( the fire of persecution with●ut , and of contention within ) and yet they that stand upon this sea have gotten the victory over the beast , and have the harpes of god in their hands and are accepted of the lord. the end of our comming hither was a reformation only of what was amiss or defective in the churches we came from : from which we made no separation , but a locall secession only into this wilderness , with true desires and endeavours after a more full reformation according to gods word . . not a toleration of all religions , or of the heresies & idolatries of the age we live in . i say , not a toleration of these so farr as wee have liberty and power for to help it . how inconsistent would such a toleration be , with the love of the one true religion revealed in the word of god ? would not such a state be guilty of having other gods , where such a toleration is ? is it not the end of civill authority , that men may live a quiet & peaceable life , in godliness as well as honesty ? but not in the wayes of ungodliness , no more then in the wayes of dishonesty : in a word , the gospel of jesus christ hath a right paramount , all rights in the world , it hath a divine & supream right to be received in every nation , and the knee of magistracie is to bow at the name of jesus . this right carryes liberty along with it , for all such as profess the gospel , to walk according to the faith & order of the gospell . that which is contrary to the gospel hath no right , and therefore should have no liberty . but the lawes which have been made by the civill government here , with respect unto religion , whereby you have declared your professed subjection to the gospel , and your non-toleration of that which is contrary thereunto ; this will be a name and a glory to new-england so long as the sun and moon endure . and so much for the negative , what the cause of god and his people amongst us is not , viz , not this worlds good , not separation , not a toleration . . now in the second place for the affirmative , if my weakness was able to shew you what the cause of god and his people in new-england is , according to its divine originall and native beautie , it would dazle the eyes of angels daunt the hearts of devils , ravish and chain fast the affections of all the saints . i crave leave to propound it thus , affirmatively ; it is . reformation of religion according to gods word . . a progress in that reformation . . the union of reformers . . the cause of god and ours it was and is reformation of religion according to gods word . there was religion in the churches from whence we came , but new-englands design in this vast undertaking , it was reformation i. e. the avoyding of some special corruptions , and the vigorous profession and practise of every thing , in doctrine , worship and discipline , according to scripture patterne : as in heb. . . when moses was about to make the tabernacle , he was admonished of god , saying , see that thou make it in all things according to the pattern shewed thee in the mount . and our saviour said unto his disciples , mat. . . teach them to observe all whatsoever i have commanded . this was and is our cause , that christ alone might be acknowledged by us , as the onely head , lord , and law-giver , in his church , that his written word might be acknowledged as the onely rule , that onely and all his institutions might be observed and enjoyed by us , and that with puritie and libertie , with peace and power . this was the end of our coming hither , this is our cause , hence i humbly conceive that the consent of the synod here to the confession of faith by the assembly of westminster , and the platform of discipline published in the year these for the substance of them , have carryed with them a declaration of the faith and order of these churches , and are so looked upon by the reformed churches abroad , unto which may be added many other books of our divines of the same import : and the practise of these churches so farr as we have attained . . a progress in reformation . i conceive our cause is , not barely , a reformation , but a progress in reformation ; it was the charge of our saviour to the church of philadelphia , hold fast what thou hast , rev. . . it is also the duty of the people of god to go on unto perfection , heb. . . a conceit of having allready attained a perfect reformation should be farr from us : a true endeavour after a full reformation in the sense of our many defects , is the duty and spirit of sincere christians that advance the word of god , as the onely perfect rule , not that we have already attained or are already perfect , ( as the apostle speaks of himselfe , phi● . . . ) but we are to press forward still unto this mark , that we may in all be conformable to the perfect rule of the word of god. hence what we have attained in doctrine , worship & discipline , according to gods word , we must hold fast and then go forward unto any of the things of christ , we are defective in , we must go forward still , but not backward , i say not backward , at for instance . our fathers fled into this wilderness from the face of a lording episcopacie , and humane injunctions in the worship of god : now if any of us their children should yeild unto , or be instrumentall to set up in this country , any of the wayes of mens inventions , such as prelacie , imposed leiturgies , humane ceremonies in the worship of god , or to admit ignorant and scandalous persons to the lords table , this would be a backslideing indeed : it would be a backsliding to the things which we and our fathers have departed from , and have openly testified against , to be not of god , as in the platform of discipline , and many other wayes . instance againe , if after such a publick witness as hath been given amongst us against a toleration of all religions , there should be a graduall yeilding to a toleration of any false religion , ( either by law , or against law , for want of the execution of laws , ) this also would be a heinous backsliding which the lords jealousy will not bear . and for our civil government to put forth any act of consent unto either of the former , would be a thing to be trembled at , and prayed against , that the lord would keep them from . but on the other side : it is our duty to press forward still to the mark ; and to make a progress in reforming what ever is amiss or defective amongst us , as in those the late synod hath pointed unto , about the subjects of baptisme , and consociation of churches . that baptisme be administred to the children of church members who have right thereunto . and that the communion of churches be better improved amongst us . these are things we have been defective in , and therefore should be reformed in a practicall way . and that we be very carefull there be no superstition amongst us , nothing supra statutum , in discipline no more then in worship that nothing be imposed as necessary unto church-membership , which god hath not made necessary in his word ; that there be no arbitrary way of judging according to the private satisfaction or dis-satisfaction of mens spirit● ; and that no breach be made upon that order which god hath set in his church between the rulers and the ruled . that whilest we witness , against superstition in some things , we do not fall into superstition in other things , but that the rule of gods word be observed in all . the people of god sincerely endeavouring reformation , ( yet through inadvertencie , are subject to erre , either in defect or excess ; and while they would avoyd one extream , to fall into another : the way of god in his word is a narrow way , there are extreames on either side , the lord requires it of us , that we neither turne to the right hand , nor to the left , that we neither add unto , nor take from , what he hath commanded concerning the order of his house , prov. . , . deut. . . heb. . . mat. . . hence it is our duty to use all circumspection that there be no additions to , nor detractions from , the lords institutions , but that all may be according to scripture pattern ; that so farr as is possible in this our state of imperfection , we may be compleat in all the will of god , col. . . . vnto reformantium : the vnion of reformers . i say , the union of reformers belongs unto this cause , for there is not any one duty more pressed by our saviour christ and his apostles , then this of a holy and close vnion amongst those that profess his name . our blessed saviour solemnly prayed for this , in the seventeenth of john that his disciples might be one . the apostle exhorts unto this in eph. . . endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace ; and he urgeth his exhortation by an argument taken from a seven-fold unity , wherein all sincere christians agree , verse , . there is one body , and one spirit , and one hope , one lord , one faith , one baptisme , one god and father of us all . therefore endeavour to keep the vnitie of the spirit in the bond of peace . and he beseecheth the corinthians to mind vnion , cor. . . i beseech you brethren by the name of the lord jesus , that there be no divisions amongst you , but that you be perfectly joyned together in the same judgment , and the same mind , and that you speak the same thing . to the same purpose he hath a most passionate exhortation to the philippians in chap , . if there be any consolation in christ , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels , and mercies , fulfill you my joy , that you be like minded , having the same love , being of one accord , of one min● : and sometimes , when he saw little hopes of it upon earth , he looks up to the lord in heaven , & beseeches him to grant this mercy to his churches and people , as in rom. . . n●w the god of patience , and consolation , grant you to be like minded one to another according to christ jesus , that with one mind , and one mouth , ye may glorifie god even the father of our lord iesus christ . all which may leave a strong conviction upon us , that this belongs to the cause of god , and his people , that there be a spirit of vnion and communion , amongst us in the things of christ , and though it be the priviledg of some times , when the lord shall fulfill those prophecies in an eminent way , that his people shall serve him with one consent ; and that the lord shall be one , and his name shall be one : yet this is the duty of the people of god at all times , ( especially at this time & in this place ) to endeavour vnion , that ( so far as is possible ) we may be of one judgment , of one heart , and one way , in all the churches of the saints . hence there should be no affecting of dividing names and parties amongst us , but all should be for this , that the lord may be one , and his name but one . hence also it is desireable that one catechisme , one confession of faith , and one covenant were agreed upon and used in the severall churches as a meanes of consent . and hence again ( so farr as the lord gives liberty ) there should be a frequent use of councils amongst us , to enquire after the mind of god and his word , according to the pattern in acts. . and other scriptures . it s true that in times of popery , there was great abuse of councils : yet it is as true , that in divers of the first centuries there was great advantage to the truth by meanes of councils , and in somewhat above the last hundred years , the work of reformation was much promoted by the godly councils and conference of reformers . it is a known passage of melancton . v●ximus in synodis et jam mortemur in illis . they were constantly searching the scripture , that they might reform all according to that , and before them , the churches of the waldenses for many hundreds of years , walking in the simplicitie of the gospel , they had then frequent councils , and their generall ●ouncils every year , nor is there any one point more frequently insisted on , in the writings of our divines of the congregationall way then this of the right use of councils . not that the judgment of a synod bindes any further the 〈◊〉 hath conformity with the scriptures , but counsels are a meane , which the lord hath appointed , and promised to bless for clearing up of the truth and uniting his people therein . it is true , the best of men may erre ; and there being divers measures of light and grace , there cannot but be different apprehensions in some things , and therefore where there is not so full an agreement as was to be desired , it is our duty to forbear one another in love , so farr as we have attained , walking by the same rule , minding the same thing , leaving other things to god & time , phil. . . . that is now , when all gods meanes have been used , and yet some lesser things remain controversall amongst pious and sober men , who agree in the maine , there is the place for christian forbearance , not in order to separation , but in order to union , for so the apostle joynes them together , ephe. . , . in lowlyness and meeknes forbearing one another in love , and endeavouring to keep the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace . in one word ; union is to be endeavoured because the truth is but one , and forbearance is to be used because of the weaknes of men , which yet is as far from a toleration of a false religion , as the east is from the west . thus i have shewed you ( as my weaknes was able ) what the cause of god and his people amongst us is affirmatively , it is reformation , a progress in reformation , and the vnion of reformers . now i shall add but this one thing more , that this cause hath a divine right , and a divine liberty adjoyned unto it , according to the law of liberty , the royall law of god , as it is called , james . , . i. e. right from god , and liberty from god for his people , to do their duty to god and christ , in matters of religion according to gods word . nor is there any power upon earth that can lawfully hinder this . and this is the cheif interest of new england : i. e. it is the matter of greatest importance in it self , and of greatest concernment unto us . the one true religion according to scripture , being the only meanes to the highest end , the glory of god and the salvation of soules : and therefore what ever may be said of our interest in other respects , yet we may be sure of this , that here lyes our predominat interest & cause , and the great end for which we came into this wilderness , and continue in it . and so much for the use of information . vse . it is for direction , if the times be such , and the case be such , as the maintaining of the cause of religion , doth need and require more then ordinary help from the lord himselfe , then it serves , to teach all that are sincerely affected unto this cause , what course we should take for the maintaining of it : and that is this , to commend this cause unto iehovah himself , beseeching him that he would maintain his own and his people cause both now at this time even as the matter doth require ; and hereafter at all times as the matter may require . me thinks i look upon this present assembly as in its proportion resembling that great assembly of the people of israel mentioned in the text . here are the heads of our tribes , the honoured magistrates , and deputies of this colonie , the reverend elders of the churches , and a multitude of other godly people ; and i am perswaded you are affected to this cause , as that assembly was , your desire is to see religion flourish , and the cause of god and his people be maintained amongst us . i need not tell you what the times are , ( shaking times , and trying times ) wherein the cause of religion is endangered on every side . i desire onely to discharge the duty of a poor servant of the lord and yours , by putting you in remembrance of that which the text here points us unto , namely , to commit this cause to the infinite wisdome and good pleasure of the lord our god , whose name is upon us , and who dwels in the midst of us , to interest him , and engage him , in the maintaining of it . this was holy counsell given to job in the midst of his plunges and distresses , iob , . i would seek unto god , and unto god would i commit my cause , which doth great things , and unsearchable , and mervellous things without number , who disappointeth the devices of the crafty , to set up on high those that are low , that such as mourne may be exalted unto safety . say ( brethren i beseech you ) is not this that you would have , that the cause of religion , and those that love it , may be in safety ? then here is the way , for all the servants of god , to commit this cause unto him which doth great things and unsearchable , and marveilous things without number , unto him who hath maintained , who doth maintaine , and will maintain his own and his peoples cause according to the counsel of his own will , for the praise of his glorious grace . quest . now if it be demanded . but now should we commit this cause unto him , that he may be engaged in the maintaining of it , above all that we can ask or think ? answ . i answer breifly in this one direction , ( which will be useful to the honoured worthies of the general court , and yet will also reach the meanest in the congregation ) that you commit the safety of this cause to the lord himselfe , in the same way as you do commit unto him the salvation of your own soules , i say , that we do all commit this cause unto the lord even in the same way as we do every one commit unto him the salvation of our soules . you may see the bottom of this direction in pet. . . where the apostle adviseth christians in evil times , to commit the keeping of their soules unto god in w●l●ing as unto a faithfull creator . i doubt not but there are abundance here that are acquainted with this , when in the midst of spirituall distresses you commit your soules to the mercy of god in christ in the promise , you do also remember the way of well-doing , the way of gods commandements , ( the narrow way to life which our saviour hath told us of ) and in that way you do commit your soul into the hand of jesus christ , sanctifying him as your onely and alsufficient saviour . as david in psal . . , , . into thy hands i commit my spirit , thou hast redeemed me o lord god of truth , for thou art my rock and my fortress , for thy name sake lead me and guide me in thy way , for i hate lying vanities , but i trust in the lord. now in the very same way we should all commit the safety of the cause of religion to the lord himselfe . that is . in the way of well-doing , . in the way of humble prayer . . sanctifie the lord himselfe as the maintainer of this cause . i entreat that i may borrow but a little of your time and patience , to explain these three particulars and then i have done . . in the way of well doing . commit this cause to the lord in the way of well doing , thus the apostle informs us , that this is the will of god , that we keep in the way of well doing pet. . . and upon this ground , he exhorts in the same place , verse , . submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake . civill government in genere is an ordinance of god , ( the higher powers are ordained of god , r●m . . ) but in spe●●● , it is an ordinance of man , though every form of civil government is to be subservient unto religion , as its ultimate end ; yet ( hic aut iste singularis modus as divines use to speak ) this o● that particular forme of civil government is an ordinance of man , it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a humane creature . now mark i beseech you what the apostle sayes , submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake , whether to the king as supream , or unto governours sent by him . this is our case , his majesty the king whom the lord hath set upon the throne is the supream civill governour under god , and over us ; and the government setled here by the charter of this colonie is a subordinate government , we are to remember our duty to both , and that for the lords sake , for so is the will of god , that with well doing you put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , as the apostle there speaks verse . this way of well doing , is a narrow way , ( as every way of duty is ) there are by-pathes , and down-falls on either side , it is not good intentions , nor p●aefrau●es , that will excuse from going out of the way of well-doing , but here lyes the exercise of godly wisdom to keep in the narrow way of well-doing shewed in the word of god , to fear god , and honour the king , to give unto god the things that are gods , and unto cesar the things that are cesars . the counsel of our saviour is to be remembred , be wise as serpents , and innocent as doves , the serpents ey in the doves head , becomes a christian well , it is for the honour of religion when the servants of god cary it so as paul did , so as to give no occasion ; so as to cut off occasion from them that seek occasion , that we may be able to say as he did , neither against the temple , nor against the law , nor ●gainst cesar have i offended any thing , act. . . and so as daniel did in whom there was an excellent spirit dan. . and the excellencie of his spirit did appear in this , that he behaved himselfe so as those that sought to find occasion against him , could find none , for as much as he was faithfull , neither was there any errour or fault in him , then said these men , we shall not find any occasion against this daniel , except we find it against him concerning the law of his god. my fathers & brethren , this is for our admonition , and this will be for the honour of religion , when such as have the managing of publick affaires , are understanding in the times to know what israel ought to do● , chron. . . not what they can do , or what they will do , but what they ought to do , not what their liberty is , but what their duty is , and what their liberty is according to their duty . to serve the times in matters of religion we must not : we must obey god rather then men , if it come to a stress , but in managing publick affairs in such times as daniel lived in the matter did so require for him to be so carefull , as that no errour nor fault might be found in him . this is for our imitation . the holy ghost informes us , it is the wisdom of the prudent to understand his way , prov. . . and a wise mans heart discerneth of time and judgment : and in ephes . . . be not unwise , but understanding what the will of the lord is . in two evils of sin , there is no election , neither is to be chosen , but in two evils of affliction the less hath the respect of a good , and may be chosen to prevent a greater evil . in the question what is best , we are not only to consider what is best in it self , but what is best with reference to all the circumstances of a case . in matters divine where we have a clear command , with moses we must not yeild an hoof , but in matters humane , summum jus may be summa injuria , standing upon extream right , may prove extream wrong , salu● populi suprema lex , the safety of the common-wealth , is the supream law. and here , suffer me i beseech you to exhort you unto that which is the duty of us all , and that is , to be peaceable and faithful in israel , according to that speech of one in a troublesome time , when there were some that said they had no part in david , sam. . . i am one that am peaceable and faithfull in israel , it was the speech of a woman , but it may well become the wisest men and the most godly , to be peaceable and faithfull in israel . first peaceable from schisme in the church , and sedition in the common-wealth , or whatsoever tends unto faction , studying to be quiet , and every one to do their own work , and then faithfull to the cause of religion according to our duty to god : faithfull to the king according to the oath of alleg●●nce , and faithfull to the government here according to the oath of fidelity . and be you all exhorted in the words of the holy apostle rom. . ● . ●●w after the things which make for peace , and beware of such things as may endanger it amongst your selves , let none say that these or those are disaffected to the cause of god and his people , because they see not 〈◊〉 some things as others do , do not impropriate the cause of religion to some in opposition to others , who profess the same cause , none should speak of themselves as if they were the godly party and eminently saints and faithful with despising others , nothing is more offensive amongst christians , then to confine religion to some singular opinion , as if religion did mainly center there , there were differences at corinth , but how doth the apostle write unto them all , cor. . . cor. . . to the saints at corinth , and to all that call upon the name of the lord jesus , their lord and ours ; mark that expression their lord and ours , theirs and ours , wherin the apostle checks the conceitedness in some that would impale and inclose the common cause of christ unto themselves and some peculiar opinion of theirs , let us beware of this . and the apostle saw it needfull to admonish the best christians , let nothing be done through strife or vain glory , or in a way of provoking one another , avoyding jealousi●s and uncharitable censures , being watchfull that satan get no advantage , this also is for our admonition , and i hope that the votes of this day will make it appear you have a due respect unto your ancient magistrates that have born the burden and heat of the day , and that you have no undue prejudice against any that have been and may be still instruments of publick good . when once in capua they were thinking of leaving out some of their senators , they considered where they should have better and what might follow , ( they considered what might follow ) and this reconciled their mindes . finally brethren be you all of one mind in this to be faithfull and peaceable in israel , that as it hath been , so it may still be an honour to all the people of this colonie , that they are peaceable men ; and whatever the rumors and surmises have been , yet i hope it will appear , such as are not yet fr●-men will be so farr from disturbance that they will not offer to vote in the elections of this day . and i doubt not but the general court will take the case into serious consideration afterwards , but for the present all should be carefull that there may be a peaceable transaction of the publick affaire , and a peaceable subjection to the government here , and that all the people as one man doe manifest their due sense of the many , blessings they have enjoyed under the present government for so many years , that there may be conjoyned prayers and endeavours for the continuance of it , according to the patent , which under god and the king is to be acknowledged as the foundation of the civil government here . it is now year since i well remember , in the year that one of the first ministers that came over into this wilderness , giving some account of his grounds in a great assembly of many thousands at leicester in old-england , he mentioned this as one , the mercy of the patent , and the largeness of the patent , from the royall authority of england , for the people here to chuse their own magistrates , and to admit unto freedom such as they should think meet , and that religion was the principall end of this plantation in his majesties royal intention and the adventurers free possession . this whole generation hath seen how good the lord hath been unto us in this wilderness for so many years under the government setled here by the patent . and therefore at in the matter of religion we are to keep to the word of god , so in the matter of the civil government keep to the patent . and thus to be peaceable & faithful in israel , is the way of well doing , wherin we are to commit the maintaining of the cause of religion to the lord our god. i shall now dispatch the other two directions very breifly . . in the way of humble prayer , commit this cause unto god by humble fervent and frequent prayer as we are directed in the text : let these my prayers be nigh to the lord our god , that he maintain the cause of his people israel . when the matter requires more then ordinary help from the lord himselfe , and yet the lord seems to withdraw and to be asleep , then the servants of god must awaken him by their importunate prayers , as the disciples in the storm did awaken our saviour , saying ; lord save us or we perish . when the people of god are faithfull to own his cause , and carefull , neither to fall short of their duty nor to go beyond it , but keep in the narrow way of wel-doing and yet meet with such stormes of providence as they are at their wits end what remaines then but prayers & tears ? o our god we know not what to doe , but our eyes are unto thee , arise o lord and plead thy own cause . awake awake o arm of the lord as in ancient times . . last of all , sanctifie the lord himselfe as the alsufficient maintainer of this cause as david said , th●● o lord art the maintainer of my l●● , psal . . . when the cause of religion seemes ready to be spoiled by the professors of it , and ready to be mined by the opposers of it , yet there is one in heaven that is able and faithfull , and watchfull , and skilful , for the preservation of it , and therefore in quietness , and confidence , in returning and resting shall we be saved , as the prophet speaks , isai . . . we should not onely submit unto , but acquiesce and rest in the infinite wisdom and good pleasure of god , that he may doe it in his own way , rejoicing in this , that the lord reignes over all . give unto the lord the glory due unto his name , that he will not forsake his people , ( he may afflict his people , and there may be need of it and cause for it , but he will not forsake his people ) for his great names sake , sam. . . and be comforted in this , that the safety of the church militant lyes upon the hand , and belongs to the care of jesus christ ; the ship of the church may be endangered , it cannot be drowned so long as the lord lives , he hath a thousand wayes ( that we know not of ) for him to maintain his own and his peoples cause . now unto him be glory in the church by christ jesus throughout all ages , world without end . amen . finis . a survey of the survey of that summe of church-discipline penned by mr. thomas hooker ... wherein the way of the churches of n. england is now re-examined ... / by samuel rutherfurd ... 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a survey of the survey of that summe of church-discipline penned by mr. thomas hooker ... wherein the way of the churches of n. england is now re-examined ... / by samuel rutherfurd ... rutherford, samuel, ?- . 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ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hooker, thomas, - . -- survey of the summe of church-discipline. congregational churches -- government. congregational churches -- new england. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a survey of the survey of that summe of church-discipline penned by mr. thomas hooker , late pastor of the church at hartford upon connecticot in new england . wherein the way of the churches of n. england is now re-examined ; arguments in favour thereof winnowed ; the principles of that way discussed ; and the reasons of most seeming strength and nerves , removed . by samuel rutherfurd , professor of divinity in the university of s. andrews in scotland . revel . . . and there came unto me one of the seven angels , which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues , and talked with me , saying , come hither , i will sh●w thee the bride , the lambs wife . v. . and he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain , and shewed me that great city , the holy ierusalem , descending out of heaven from god. ezek. . . and it was round about eighteen thousand ( measures , ) and the name of the city from that day ( shall be ) the lord is there . london , printed by i. g. for andr. crook , at the green dragon in s t pauls church-yard . m. dc . lv iii. christian reader , it were good there were more believing and less disputing in the world ; and that all , especially the ambassadors of the prince of peace , would listen to that tim. . . not to give heed to fables and endless genealogies , which minister questions , rather then godly edifying which is in faith : as also to consider , that the holy ghost states an opposition betwixt questions of perverse disputers , and godliness , tim. . , . in this piece , which the violence of requests in some , the importunity of chiding in others , and the less modest triumphing in not a few hath extorted , rather than willingly brought forth , the question of the preference of humble believing above all factious disputing , even though the subject were the form , the going out and the coming of the house of the lord , is with me , and ( which is of infinite more weight ) with the truly godly soon determined : for , blessed is the servant whom the master when he cometh shall finde watching , praying , believing , not tossing and raising the dust of debating and multiplied replies and duplies , since the peace and joy of believing , that we may abound in hope through the power of the holy ghost , is of great price with those in whom the meekness and gentleness of christ hath place . for it were desireable , not to be in bondage to either engine or pen ; and it would appear that there is less of christ and more of self in our sickness of over-loving these truths , which suffer most bruising and grinding ( might i be licensed so to speak ) between the milstones of sides , opinions and contradictions of parties , as if that were the choicest verity which the mans own engine hath taken out of an adversaries hand ( in a manner ) with his bowe and his sword . but o how more precious were it , if the holy ghost had perswaded the man of the sweetness of it from the fountain of holy scripture ! for it is beyond doubting , that syllogisms , and haply thirty two or fourty arguments have not such leading and captivating influences upon the heart , as the convincing light of the spirit acting upon the supernatural instinct of the new birth , to bring the thoughts captive to the obedience of christ. for when the head is filled with topicks , and none of the flamings of christs love in the heart , how dry are all disputes ? for too often , servou●of dispute in the head weakens love in the heart . and what can our paper-industry adde to the spotless truth of our lord iesus ? o that opinions were down , and the gospel up ; and sides and parties might fall , and christ stand ; and that all names , sects and ways were low , and the lord alone exalted ! and that we could both dispute for iehovah , and in the same act worship iehovah ! there is too much fire stricken out of the letter in our debates : it were good that the spirit with fire from heaven did animate and inliven the letter and word of our polemicks ; it were good that the ministers of the gospel in the isle of britain were well studied and read in that celebrious and noble text , iesus christ and him crucified , that we might contend for his high interests , and had the key of david to open christ , to commend him in all his loveliness , and people would come and see , and wonder ; then should we know how choiser it were to act in our selves the love of christ , being warmed and inflamed therewith , than to write the letters of his love in ink and paper , and to declaim of it to others . neither is this spoken to deny but many precious and savoury truths , as christ himself , have endured contradiction of sinners ; but the witnesses both sealed these truths with their blood , and were in their debatings shined upon by the out-lettings and emanations of the spirit of christ. it were safer to lie in the dust and be humbled before the lord for the breach of covenant , the vast toleration of false religions , our vanity of apparel , when we busk and adorn our selves in filks , even in our state of captivity ; for intemperance , execrable swearing , lying , mocking and persecuting of godliness , lothing and hating the godly , covetousness , the barrenness of our profession ; and which is the root of all , atheism , gross ignorance of god and of jesus christ , the abounding of many other iniquities , as if we would make it appear , that three englands are scarce sufficient to humble one scotland . which is not spoken to justifie the author , or a party from deep accession to these sins , or to clear and acquit the members of our church from the charge put on them by mr. hooker . it s true , we judge it not warrantable to say , that the servants are to call and invite none to the marriage-banquet , but such as they look on as regenerate , and clothed with the wedding-garment ; nor to teach , that the lord of hosts shall make a feast of fat things , a seast of wine on the lees , of fat things full of marrow , unto , and for a visible society , of which magus the sorcerer , iudas the traitor are priviledged members ; and that the lord in them shall destroy the covering cast over all people , and the vail that is spread over all nations ; and that in the members of that church-frame of which we now dispute , it s verified which the prophet saith , isa. . . moreover , the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun , and the light of the sun shall be seven●old , as the ●●ght of seven days , as mr. h. cited : for without the salvo and ●enitive of a figure , the part for the whole , his congregational visible church can never stand under the weight of such glorious prophesies as are fulfilled in the onely really gracious and chosen of god , visible or invisible . yet should the desire of our soul be , that there be upon the bells of the horses holiness unto the lord , and the pots in the lords house may be like bowls before the altar ; yea , that every pot in ierusalem and in iudah may be holiness to the lord of hosts , zech. . . we pray for the coming of his kingdom , and praise him that the number of those that seek the lord in scotland are not diminished , but grow even under evil shepherds and lazy feeders ; which is the lilly among the thorns , though we go under the name of protesters , separatists , hypocrites , unpeaceable , implacable spirits , are made as the filth of the world , and the off-scourings of all things : yea , troubled on every side ( in the streets , pulpits , in divers synods , presbyteries , &c. more then under prelacy ) yet not distressed ; perplexed , but not in despair ; persecuted , but not forsaken ; cast down , but not destroyed . we desire to believe our cry shall come up before the lord , though we be afflicted and helpless ; and look on the right hand , and behold now man knows us , refuge falls us . it s wonder if there be a power now on earth , who saith in reality as iob did , when the secret of god was on his tabernacle , job . . when the ear heard me , then it blessed me , and when the eye saw me , it gave witness to me ; because i delivered the poor that cryed , and the fatherless , and him that had none to help him : the blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me ; and i caused the widows heart to sing for joy ; i put on righteousness , and it clothed me ; my judgement was as a robe and a diadem ; i was as eyes to the blind , and feet was i to the lame ; i was a father to the poor , and the cause that i knew not i searched out , &c. and now to other snares this is added : that our brethren have framed and defend one engagement which every intrant to the ministry must take and subscribe , otherwise there is no maintenance for him , that he is resolved to live peaceably , and unoffensively under the present government ; and how far we are from siding with any seditious , unpeaceable , treacherous , and malignant way , and from raising tumults , is well known ; but we dare not deceive our souls , and deal doubly with the lord , and with the present powers , to make a difference betwixt a resolution to do a duty , and a promise or engagement to do a duty , as our brethren do , when the resolution is declared and subscribed . . when it is judicially declared to understanding , and wise men , who cannot take the sense to be , he is resolved for the present , but hath power to alter his resolution to morrow , and judges in conscience he may alter without equivocating . for when the resolution is declared . . judicially infor● , declared . . when it is declared ad modum compacti , by way of covenant : if the present powers shall give order for his enjoying the stipend , he is resolved to do such a duty . let any say whether he doth not covenant & promise ; and if he speak sincerely as a minister of christ , he may not swear the same . this we disown , as no lawful act of a presbytery , though it be said to be done by a surreptitious meeting of correspondents from the synods of this church , without the knowledg and consent of some and of hundreds of godly ministers . . as we desire not presbyterial government to be reproched for such judging , so neither are prelatical acts of synods for debarring from the holy ministry men of an holy and unblamable conversation , and for the grace of god in them , and their knowledge and utterance , able and fit to preach the gospel , upon this account , because they are unpeaceable , and hold up debates , that is , because they will not be satisfied with the publick resolutions for taking in to places in the church , parliament , army , committee of estates , all the malignant party in the land , or will not promise silence in their matters . . nor doth it belong to the essence of presbyterial government , that all members of this church , and inferiour judicatures , should so submit to the superiour respective judicatures , that if they be grieved with the sentence , they ought to acquiesce thereunto , and not to contra-act , but onely appeal , until there shall be a general assembly to determine the matter . this never was , and i trust , nor shall ever be their mind who are for presbyterial government ; nor do our brethren justly father it upon the general assembly , 〈◊〉 . sess. . for our church acknowledgeth no subjection nor subordination of inferiour judicatures unto superiours , but in the lord , and so to submit to any sentence , and to forbear a duty of preaching the gospel , praying , visiting , exhorting , catechising pastorally in families , to abstain from the lords supper , and from acts of due censure necessary for the flock upon the known unjust sentence of a synod , until a general assembly ( which possibly cannot be convened in an age to determine ) is to . obey men unjustly forbidding a called minister of christ to preach in season , and out of season , rather then god ; for they unjustly forbid , and the lord justly commands ; therefore the called minister must act and contra-act to their unjust sentence , and not forbear for an hour , as the scripture clears , . tim. . , . act. . . , , . cor. . . isa. . . ier. . . ezek. . , , . & . , . act. . , . and so this is unjust . . it is to make synods and ecclesiastical judicatures lords of our faith , which the reformed churches detest in popish councels ; for all men and councels most lawful can challenge only limited obedience and submission in the lord to their determinations , if they speak and command according to the law and the testimony , isa. . . otherwise there is no sight in them . and so it is popish . . we conceive in performing acts of that government which christ owns in his word , we do not sin ; for no authority of a judicature can make that to be the word of god , and obedience to god , which was not , as to the matter , obedience to god before that authority , nor on the contrary . now to abstain from preaching , praying , eating and drinking as the lords supper in a called minister , and in a visible professor , duly called and fitted , is sin ; then cannot the authority of the church , fat less their known unjust sen●ence make it lawful . . suppose the general assembly should ratifie and confirm the unjust sentence of the inferiour judicature , or annull their just sentence , the people of god are not obliged to stand to either the one or the other . so we disown the point which our brethren delivered to us in their papers for union sought by us , as nothing belonging to the essence of presbyterial government , but reject it as unsound , tyrannical and popish . . as we desire to be humbled for our accession to the sins of the land , so it s no part of presbyterial government owned by us , that many unsufficient , ignorant and wickedly weak , not a few , yea , too many scandalous , malignant , and prophane ministers and elders are in office ; and oh if they had not lu●ked and strengthned themselves in the shadow of such as carry on the publick resolutions , and how a purging of the church is possible ( except to him to whom nothing is impossible ) is hard to divine , when the body of the ministry , of whom many are malignant , were prelatical , arminian ( and diverted into us for the 〈◊〉 ) are ignorant of god , la●y , such as extrude out of their sessions , out of their hearts , godly praying elders , and call into their place scandalous men , and persecute the godly . when such , i say , are incorporate with the chief leading men of the publick resolutions , and that in opinion , judgement , way , and common counsels and actings , for furnishing commissions , publick messages to court , and carrying on the course of desection , and their followers expect they shall not be deserted by their patrons ; and the body of people in congregations are ignorant , prophane , and loose , and yet have suffrages in the election of ministers and elders , contrary to the word of god , and acts of our church ; and when it s now as it was in the prelatical times , the people love to have it so ; and when our brethren and other opposers have that catholick advantage known in all ages , to wit , the multitude for them , and against us ; and pulpits have sounded against us in the prelatical language , casting into our bosome that isa. . . stand by thy self , come not near me , for i am holier then thou . . nor look we on the receiving to church-fellowship men known enemies to the covenant and cause of god , who again and again had broken their engagement , and of many like unto them , any otherwise then as a taking of the name of god in vain , and as an heinous abuse of the ordinance of church-pardoning and readmitting of penitents . . the admitting of many known unsufficient , and unqualified , and scandalous ministers and elders to office in the house of god , and the polluting of the ordinance of the lords supper , by admitting thereunto many ignorant and scandalous persons , is to us no part of this government . since we earnestly desire the laudable way of the provincial synod at london for promoving of godliness , and examining of such as are to be admitted to the lords supper , and wait to see what the lord will do for the help of a suffering people , for the gathering of the dispersed of zion , and building among us the old waste places ; nor do we so faint , but we look toward such refreshing words , isa. . . in that day sing ye unto her , a vineyard of red wine ; i the lord do keep it , i will water it every moment , lest any hurt it . what is spoken to the whole , the faith of an afflicted part may own it . isa. . . violence shall no more be heard in thy land , wasting , nor destruction within thy borders , but thou shalt call thy walls salvation , and thy gates praise . isa. . . and they shall call them the holy people , the redeemed of the lord ; and thou shalt be called , sought out , a city not forsaken . isa. . . as one whom his mother comforteth , so will i comsort you , and ye shall be comforted in ierusalem , and when ye see this your heart shall rejoyce , and your bones shall stourish like an herb . isa. . . and the lord shall guide thee continually , and satisfie thy soul in drought , and make fat thy bones , and thou shalt be like a watered garden , and like a spring of water , whose waters fail not . it were not the wisedom of any to disoblige christ , by either neglecting , or hurting of such as desire to be owned by the lord jesus , as his own hidden ones . the lord was not in the debt of cyrus for his favour toward his people . he can be angry at all who will not kiss the son ; and better heaven in the length & latitude of it were turned in a mass or web of fiery anger ( so it were but creature-wrath ) & i were folded in that web , then that i should lie under the gospel-indignation and anger of the son of god. but no matter of a despicable handful of such as we are ; we are not the godly in scotland , nor did we ever say we was the onely , or all the godly in scotland ; but sure we was either looked on as of the same way , an. . with all that owned christ , and the godly in the isle of britain , or then some did much dissemble with us , though some with whom we took sweet counsel then , do now say we was in an error , an. . as i intend to darken the reputation of no man , so far less to undervalue the authority and name of the servant of jesus christ , mr. thomas hooker , yea , the commandment of god layes laws on me to give testimonie to his learning , his dexterous eloquence and accuracy in disputes , and as christian report bears , to judge him one who walked with god , and preached christ not with the enticing words of mans wisedom , but in demonstration of the spirit , and of power . yet , as i hugely differ from his esteem of these against whom he disputes , in putting them all to the worth of a straw , and every pen to a nihil dicit , he sayes nothing ; and ranking us among the opposers of christs kingdom , cerinthus , ebion , gnosticks , valentinians , whom godly fathers did oppose , and with boniface , hildebrand , papists , against whom the waldenses , wicliff , hush , ierom of prague did witness ; and with prelates , primates , metropolitans , as if we were the prelates successors , who would keep a dominion in the hands of elders , so in the particulars in the following disputes ; i have apprel ensions far contrary to this man , whose name is savoury in the churches , concerning the government of christs visible kingdom : and should desire that holiness may shine more eminently in the churches of christ ; for the first declining of churches hath its beginning from a loose and prophane walk of officers ; nor can assemblies have any other issue then that of which nazianzene complains , when pastors are ungodly , then the sun at noon day goes down upon the prophets , and stars fall from heaven , and the glory of the lord departs from the temple . and were our practice more concentrick with , and suitable unto our rule , the question of the constitution of visible churches should be a huge deal narrower . the god of power lead us in all truth . yours in the lord iesus , samuel rutherfurd . lib . i. cap. i. a survey of the survey of the reverend and godly servant of god , mr. thomas hooker . the company of beleevers without rulers is no politick church ; having power of ordination : what locall habitation doth to make church-members . passing what this learned and godly man hath said , chap. part . ( in which some things may be noted as escapes ) i come to chap. . chap. . part . c. . m. hook. the visible church is the adequate subject of our inquirie . answ. the principall subject is mr. hooker his visible church , yea it is too narrow : the adequate it is not , for the visible kingdome of christ in concre●● , as ruled by christ , includes the elect and true beleevers , for whose sake are all , officers , word ; seales , cor. . . . cor. 〈◊〉 . eph. . . m. h. the church in her constitution is considered two wayes : . as totum essentiale or homogeneum , or as totum integrale . in the former notion , the church as a city without a mayor , hath right to choose its officers , and becomes totum organicum , when officers are in it . ames . medu . lib. . cap. . . ans. . the argument must so runne , what ever a city without a mayor may doe , that may a company of beleevers so combined without officers do● . ans. nothing more false : but of this hereaster . a civill free corporation may appoint this or that government , . may limit the mayor to one yeere to so much power , no more : but m hooker his new church cannot doe any of these . amesius there saith not a company of believers without officers is a politick church . the scripture in old or new testament never said it . m. h. as for the manner : parish precincts , or dwelling within the bounds of a parish cannot make an ecclesiastick right to church-membership : for . it is but a civill right that a man hath to his house ; . excommunication cutteth a man off from the church , as if he were an heathen , but not from his house , which is his by birth or purchase : . yea so papists , turks , dogs , should be church members , to whom christ hath denyed all right . revel . . . ans. we grant parish dwelling simply in a professor gives not right to be a member of the city of god , but parish dwelling tali modo is a necessary condition , without which they cannot be fixed members of that congragation , to meet in one house , suppone after supper , as act . cor. . , , . and therefore we condemnn our brethren , who failing on the other extreme , will have persons residing in old england to be marryed members to one onely cong●…on v●…ble in new england , and to no other visible church●… 〈◊〉 , and deny all church-communion of the catholick 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to all visible professors , who are sojourners , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●●●range excommunicating of visible professors , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 residence ; for shall they watch over one another , as they are obliged , by a church oath , suppose their church be beyond the line , and they on this side of it ? . this full well shall gratifie anabaptists , who will have it no mercie , that infants are born in zion , or in any beleevers house , as the scripture saith it is , gen. . . psal . . cor. . . rom. . . the reasons are not so sure , for birth does it not , but to be born of such parents at corinth , makes over to the infants of believers , a to be born in zion , to be born in beleeving abrahams house , gen. . . psal. . . a right to be members of that church , else upon what right shall they be baptized ? as for the place , rev. . . pignetus ; pareus , piscator , diodati , english annotators , bullinger nepar , expone the place of the church in heaven : marlorat and many others of the invisible church , and the text excludes all from that church but such as are written in the book of life , and so to me it is unpertinent to the purpose , and not concludent . chap. ii. of visible saints . . m. h. reasons to prove that his visible saints are only members of the visible church , are discussed . master hooker first states the question , then brings reasons to prove such visible saints to be the onely matter of the visible church . saints in charity are such in practise and profession ( if we look at them in course , by experience or report ) as they savour so much , as they had been with iesus . from all which so much as rational charity directed by rule from ●k● word , a man cannot but conclude , but there may be some seeds of some spirituall work of god in the soule . answ. if any one word of god were given to prove what must be proven , it were good : . that magus , all the three thousand , act. . all the multitude baptized by iohn , mat . mark . . luk . were to philip , to the church of sa●aria , to godly iohn bap●ist , to the twelve apostles , such in practice and profession , as they savoured so much as they had been with iesus ; so heavenly a savourinesse is not , in one jot , holden out in the word , the baptist looks on them as v●pers , and was it fit to omit the styles of saints , justified , sanct●fied ? . the tryers most have experience of their practice and profession : this shall take dayes and moneths to eat ( as they say ) much salt with them , the apostles , that same day in few houres time , baptized them , act. . who can believe that the huge multitude lived on locusts and wild honey in the wildernesse , untill iohn should experimentally find a generation of vipers moulded into a new frame to savour of the things of the spirit ? . there is nothing here of . tryers and judges : . nothing of a judica●ure : . nothing of letters , witnesses , testimonies from the churches : . nothing of the rule of the word compared with their habituall conversation ( which must take a tract of dayes ) . nothing of a sentence admitting some for their spirituall savourinesse , rejecting others for that bad smell , and denying them church-fellowship untill they be better tryed : all conjectures . . the conclusion is not any thing but ( a may be ) and that may beare a ( may not be ) and if it were proven by the word , that professors right to the covenant of god , to the word , promises , seales , depended upon mens rational judgement of charity , it might quiet the conscience : but a● shall not the lord be a god to a people , except the people themselves judge in the judgement of charity , that the people so consederate , savour all of them , as if they had been with iesus ? and except they from experience can conclude , there may be some seeds of some spirituall work of god in the souls of all these people ? ah , the lord then cannot say to a nation and a society , i am your god , while first he asks the churches leave . m h. . reason . the members of christs body are fit alore to be members of a true church , because that is the body of christ. cor. . . ephes. . , . but onely visible saints , who according to the rules of reasonable charity may be conceived to have some speciall good in them , are onely members of christs body : for to have a member , which neither doth , nor ever did receive any power or virtuall impression , in the kind of it , from the head is not onely against reason but against that reference and correspondence , which the members have to the head . now visible saints onely , according to the former explication can be said , by the rules of reasonable charity , to have some virtuall influence of some spirituall operation from christ as a head : therefore such onely are members of a church . answ. no man seems more to study to darken the matter , then the reverend arguer . . he omits all along the word ( visible ) which is mainly in question . . he himself is forced to distinguish a two fold headship of christ ; for christ is head to the visible church , either politick , according to the politick government and guidance he lends to it , or according to the influence of saving grace & life : the members of christs body according to the politick external government are fit alone to be members of a true church visible , or truly visible ; such as magus , demas , and many gifted men are , the proposition is true and granted . but onely visible saints , who according to the rules of reasonable charity may be conceived to have some special good , or which is all one , to be reall believers , are onely members of christs body , according to politick and external government , the assumption is false , and never proved ; a meer begging of the question , for not onely such as are conceived in charity to to be real converts , such as magus , iudas , &c. but also peter , iohn , and such as prosess subjection to the gospel ; and withall do really believe , 〈◊〉 members of the true visible church , and the lords visible confederates , whether they be conceived to have some special good of conversion , and saving grace in them ; or not ; nor does the formality of a visible member , or a visible confederate depend upon the judgment of men : and it is most false ( which is said in the probation ) that onely conceived and so judged visible saints have the politick influence of some spiritual operation from christ the head ; for godly professors , whether they be conceived and judged , or not conceived or judged godly professors , have both real and internal in foro dei , and also external and ecclesiastick right to the ord●…ces of christ , should all the world say the contrary . and by our brethrens nay , workers of iniquity , and these that are never known nor chosen of god , but are exactly g●lded hypocrites , and never receive any power or trial at all in their kind , from their head christ ; as may be proved from matth. . , . matth. . , ● . matth. . . . matth. . . tim. . . are visible saints , not because they are so , but because they are falsely so esteemed by men to be such . hence . our brethrens way makes not a whit a cleaner visible church then our way . . the politick influence of christ the head upon such painted tombs , can be none at all before their membership . how then can they have virtual influence of some spiritual operation from the head ? supposed influence is no influence at all . and not any of these tex●s say that the church , cor. . . and ethes . . , . is not the body of christ visible , except men conceive it to be his visible body ; such new divinity is unknown to scripture : if the other part of the distinction be applied to the argument , both the propositions shall be false ; so the members of christs body by the influence of saving grace are fit alone to be members of the true visible church : nothing is more false , for then the true visible church should be made up of only true and real converts ; glad shall anabaptists and familists be of this doctrine , and except the propositions be so taken , m. h. but paints us a false church . . the places , cor. . . eph. . , speak nothing of mr hookers single congregation , but of the catholick visible church , which shall meet all in the unity of faith , and in which the lord hath set apostles , cor. . . and . , . and that is not a single congregation . . though the places speak of the visible church , yet do not these places say that the visible church as visible , but as the real mystical body of christ , which shall be glorified with christ , is called christ , ephes. . . 〈◊〉 cor. . , . and the body of christ , by the influence of saving grace . chap. iii. other arguments of m. hookers for the constitution of the church of his visible saints . master hookers two reasons . these are ●is to be members of christs church that are subjects of christs kingdome . the church is the visible kingdome , in which christ reigns by the scepter of his word , ordinances and discipine : he is our king , he is our law-giver ; they , who are in professed rebellion , are traytors , not subjects , the members of the body are under the motion and guidance of the head ; wolves are contrary to it . but visible saints , as formerly described , are onely subjects of this kingdome . christ is the king of saints , not of d●unkards , atheists , they alone saints ) proclaim subjection in their practice . answ. the terme ( onely ) is wanting in the proposition , which is in the assumption and conclusion , contrary to right logick . . these are fit to be members of christs church visible ) that are subjects ( by an influence of grace , to wit , from their head and king calling effectually , acts . , . isai. . . . and giving them repentance and forgiveness of sins , acts . . ) of the kingdome of christ , visible or invisible ; the proposition is true , but that such visible saints as magus and iudas the traytor ( which are the visible saints m. h. defines in terminis , part . . cap. . pag. . conclus . . ) are subjects and onely subjects of this kingdome , as his assumption sayes in express termes , is most false ; now that the argument must mean of the subjects of christs kingdome real , and of members by the influence of saving grace from christ their head and king , i prove from the argument that m. h. brings from isa● . . for m. h. his visible saints magus and iudas cannot . 〈◊〉 say , the lord is our law-giver , the lord is our iudge , the lord is our king and he will save us ; if sorcerers and traytors should say so they should lie . isaiah speaks of real converts and the true sion , whose stakes and cords shall never be removed , so as the gates of hell ( saith marlorat on the place ) shall not prevail against them . he speaketh ( as yet saith piscator ) to the godly iews ; so that ( saith calvin ) god is in the miast of her ; therefore she shall not be moved : for ( saith musculus ) my sheep shall no man pluck out of my hand . . he speaketh of these ( not of such as iudas and magus ) who shall be protected and saved by the lord , vers . , . he speaks of the true church which acknowledges god her law giver and king so calvin ; the church ( saith bullinger ) is so armed with the grace of god , that she yields not to evils , nor is broken , but remains ever sure . . he speaks of that kingdome and people , whose inhabitants shall not say , i am sick , the people that dwell therein , their iniquity shall be forgiven them , vers . . onely the citizens of the church ( saith calvin ) are adorned with this priviledge , pardon of sins ; and it pertaines ( saith gualter ) to the church onely and h●…r citizens ; because ( saith luther ) the g●dly people hath a god gracious , therefore their sins are forgiven . so bu●inger , oecolampadius , diodati , english divine , zwinglius , and the popish interpreters , carthusianus , vatablus , arias , montanur , corn. à lipide , gasp. san●lius , lyranus , never man before pious m. hooker , expoun●…d the place of such visible saints , as have room in this house , to wit , witches and traytors . . to si●n a single congregation , as if the gates of hell could not prevail against such cyp●ers : and . he must not be k●ng and law-giver ( by this way ) to godly visible believers , when their congregation is broken , dissipated by persecution , death of officers , o poor comfort ! but these are fit to be members in christs church that are subjects in christs kingd me , by influence of politick guidance and common gifts ; the proposition in that sense is neither proved by isaiah . . or any reason , but the just contrary conclusion , to wit , that believing and really pardoned sion , vers . , . must be the persons that make up the kingdome of christ : nor does it conclude any thing but contrary to m. h. and the way of the congregation , to wit , ergo onely such as are visible saints , according to the politick influence and common gifts , are fit to be members of the visible church ; which is a most false conclusion , for also true believers sincerely professing the faith , and who are subjects of christ according to the influence of saving grace , remission and pardon , v. , , . are fi● to be , and really are members of the visible church , except the argument conclude that onely hypocrites appearing to be believers real , are fit to be members of the visible church , which is most false by the grant of adversaries , and by the truth it self . . m. h. suppresseth the conclusion , and proves the proposition , that reall believers are fit to be members of the mystical and true church , which neither we , nor he deny ; and the terme in rationall charity directed by the word , which should be in both propositions , is neither mentioned in the argument , not in the scriptures and proofs , an unknown way of arguing : and for the assumption , but visible saints ( that is , saints in the judgement of charity ruled by the word ) are onely subjects of his kingdome . m. h. never so much as touches , nor labours to prove , nor is there a scripture in old or new testament to prove that men cannot be the subjects of christs visible kingdome , except apostles , or some visible society declare and passe a judiciall sentence that they are subjects of his visible kingdome . . the probation is fan toto coelo from the conclusion to be proven . they ( saith he ) who carry themselves in professed rebellion , they are traitors , not subjects — and christ is the king of saints , not of drunkards , atheists , &c. it s true , he is no visible king to visible pagans , nor are they as visible professed atheists , subjects of his visible kingdome . and who teaches any such thing , and against whom doth m. hooker dispute ? if there be any such members in our church , not censured , and if obstinate , not casten out , it is the sinfull and abused practise of men , and we professe we desire to be humbled before the lord that our ministers and assemblies received into our church , men guilty of perjury drunkennesse , shedding of the blood of the people of god in the defence of the cause and sworne reformation , and that our ministers and elders , ( ah to many of them ) are scandalous , baters and mockers of piety , though our church was in as fair way of purging the house of god , but now by the present stroke , we are deprived of liberty so to do , but that is nothing concludent against the right government of christ , christ is not the head and king of professed rebells ; true , nor is he head and king , in a saving way , of latent rebells , or of your visible saints , such as magus and iudas , ergo he is head and king to none as visible members , but to men onely judged in charity , led by the word to be reall converts , no logick can prove the consequence . but our mind is that christ is visible head by influence of gifts , ordinances , and externall guidance to all to whom he sayes , i will be your god , and who professe subjection to him , whether the church shall judge them reall converts , or not judge them so . m. h. arg . . pag. . if visible saints be not members , then non-visible saints may be members . the latter is absurd , then these who in the judgement of charity are members of the devil , may be conceived members of christ in the same judgement of charity : charity then must pluck out her eyes . answ. . here is as good a contradiction , if any goodnesse there be in these . if such as are onely visibly saints , magus , iudas , be no members , but rotten ones : then such as are non-visibly saints , such as peter , paul , who are really justified and chosen , are fit visible members . let m. h. choose him , by his own contradiction which ( he saith ) divides the breadth of being ( though this phancied contradiction divide neither the breadth nor the sixteenth part thereof ) if onely visibly justified and chosen saints , who are such really , are not visible members : then none visibly justified and chosen saints are fit members visible . the antecedent is true , and simon magus is not a visible member to m. hooker , by this account ; and the latter is contradicent to m. hookers way : for then one who is to the eye of charity visibly justified and chosen , and that really by m. h. metaphysick , which so divides the breadth of being , as peter visibly believing , and thereby really blessed , matth. . , . shall be to the same eye of charity not visibly justified and chosen , but in the miscarrying judgement of charity , shall be no visible member , according to the reality thereof , as simon magus ; and therefore the definition of a visible member cannot agree both to peter visibly believing , and to magus visibly believing ; for there is a reall contradiction between peter his believing reall , and magus his believing reall , as good logick demonstrates : but the latter is absurd , for both peter and magus are visible saints . let any man help m. h. in his metaphysick here . . aristotle long agoe taught us that there is no contradiction , when the contradiction is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : now there is a mids betwixt a visible saint , as m. hooker meanes , and a no visible saint ; for his visible saint is , one who by the church is judged a reall convert and his no visible saint is one who is judged no reall convert , example of the former is peter , or magus , an example of the latter is an unbaptized pagan so judged : now the mids to us simon magus when he is baptized , and we teach that philip and the church of samaria neither passed any judiciall sentence of magus as a reall convert , nor yet as any non-reall convert , and therefore to the eyes of reason and charity ( which need not to be plucked out , but have their own use ) magus , when he is admitted a visible member , is neither a reall member of the devil , nor a reall member of christ , but a professor , and the judgement of the church is abstracted both from the eternall election and the eternall reprobation of magus , and from the reall conversion or the reall non-conversion of magus . and we desire one jot or word of scripture where the servants matth. . are thus limitted as m. h. supposeth , invite none to come to the wedding of the kings sonne but such onely as you judge to be really converted and cloathed with the wedding garment : the parable saith no such thing , but the contrary , verse . as many as ye find bid to the marriage ; yea v. . saith , the inviters have nothing to do to judge whether they be chosen or effectually called , or not chosen or non-effectually called , though one of them in themselves they must be . and when the maids of wisdome prov. . are sent out , reads m. h. of such a limitted commission , see you call in and admit none within the doores of wisdomes house but onely such as you judge to be the spirituall new born children of wisdome : yea the maids expresly call in the fooles and the simple ones to be made wise , v. whereas m. h sup●…oses , they have eaten the dainties of wisdome , before ever they come in a● wisdomes doore . and so against common sense in lieu of an argument , he beggs the question ; so if m. hookers visible saints onely be not members , prove that there are such visible saints first : otherwise the papists may say , if our visible bishop be not the visible head of the church , then our non-visible bishop may be head . we grant all , and then m. h. bids us yield to what he saith without probation , and tells us it is absurd that his non-visible saints be members , and so his visible saints are men in the moone to us , and in reality of truth no such thing . chap. iiii. the place psal. . . what hast thou to do to declare my statutes , is discussed , and saith nothing for m. h. his visible members . master hooker his fourth reason . these who are excluded from his covenant , and medling with that as unfit , they are not fit to have communion with the church ; for to that all the holy things of god do in a speciall manner appertain . it s gods house , and there all his treasure lyes , the keys of the kingdome are given to them , to them all the oracles , ordinances , and priviledges ●o belong . but these who hate to be reformed , and cast away his commande , they have nothing to do to take his covenant in their mouth . psal. . . answer , it is to be observed , . that m. h. leaves the conclusion to the reader , and sets down a proposition and an assumption all along , such as they are : . he never concludes what is denied , ergo , onely such visible saints are members of the visible church : . he speaks most ambiguously , such hypocrites are not fit to have communion with the church . what church ? he knowes the question is of the visible church onely , for he grants part . . c. . conclus ● . pag. . . that such as are found to be corrupted and grosse hypocrites being now received members , though they were not so when first admitted , are so far fit to have communion with the church visible , as they must be tolerated and remaine members , untill they be judicially examined , convinced , and censunes applyed for reformation : , it is one thing to prove that open hypocrites should not be admitted members of the visible church , but it is the sinne of the so knowing admitters , for which m. r. now disputes ; and a far other thing which m. h. proveth , to wit , it is not fit that hypocrites have communion with the church : what a lax disputing is this ? they that eat and drink unworthily , cor. . . . and eat things sacrificed to idols , cor. . . should not have communion with the church in the holy ordinances , would paul therefore inferre such , though converts , are not to be admitted members of the visible church ? it is not fit , yea it is sin , that either professed non-converts , or latent non-converts have communion with the church , for their very profession of the name of christ , when there is no reality in the thing , is a most sinfull unfitnesse in magus , in iudas , will it follow ergo the church sinnes in admitting magus and iudas ? . the state of the question is overturned , for the scope of psal. . , . as calvin , musculus , marlorat , diodati , english divines observe well , is to presse a sincere reality in profession , and to condemn outward sacrificing and crying , we are in covenant with god , not onely without repentance and praying and praising in faith , . . . . . but when the so professing hypocrits were compartners with theeves , adulterers , &c. v. . . . but the place speaketh not one jot that the church ought not to have admitted such to be members of the visible church : . let it be remembred that m. h. here makes the jewish church a sampler of the visible single congregations under the new testament : . and since all the holy things of god were committed to the church of the jewes , rom. . . rom. . , psal. . , . deut. . , . if the lord called them not , nor planted them into a church-frame , nor admitted them members , untill first they were contrary to these hypocrites psal. . . and untill there was not onely a professed willingnesse to receive the gospell , ( i speak the language of m. h. pag. . ) but a practicall reformation in their profession ( survey part . . cap. pag. . . ) that they savoured so much , as they had been with iesus , and if so be they must have been the true israel in mens esteem , before the lord called and choosed them to be his people , it must follow that god choosed not israel to be his church of free grace and love , but when they were now professors and practically reformed , and a people calling upon god in the day of trouble , offering thanksgiving , paying vowes , loving instruction , contrary to these hypocrites psal. , , , , . which is grosse pelagianisme , and contrary to the word of god , chron. . . deut. , , , . psal , . psal. , . . nor is it true that all oracles , ordinances , and priviledges de belong to the visible church , as visible in m. h. sense , i. e. to every single congregation : for there is , there may be a single congregation which there is not one chosen of god , but all made up of such stuffe as magus and iudas , yea and the promises of an everlasting covenant , and the priviledges of election , effectuall calling , perseverance , glorification , are not made to single churches or kingdomes , provinces , since the famous churches of rome , ephesus , thessalonica , of asia are horribly fallen , these previledges belong firstly and principally to the catholick visible church as mysticall and invisible both subjectivè and finaliter , or objectively , especially as they are gods treasures . m. h. pag. . m. r. yields the causes while he granteth the wicked are forbidden , what to be church members ? no , but to take the covenant of god in their mouth , for if they come to see their sinne , reform their evil wayes , they are non-visible saints , therefore while they remain haters of reformation , they are not visible saints , and have no title to be church-members . answ. the cause is never a whit the more yielded , because of m. h. his mistake in proving one thing for another : the lord , psal. . , forbids hypocrites remaining hypocrites to take the lords covenant in their mouth , but i said not , therefore he forbids the church to take in any as members but these onely to come to see th●ir sinne and to reform their evil waye , as m h. saith ( which is indeed to yield the cause ) for if they who leave the wayes of p●ganisme , iudaisme , popery , and the wayes of sin , professe they are willing to be the disciples of christ if the profession be not grossely and knownly hypocriticall , and their coming in be not for by-ends and to betray the cause , but morally ingenuous and negatively sincere , the church is to receive such , and is not forbidden to admit them as members , whether to the knowledge of the church they be reall converts or not reall converts . i grant it is another thing , if they refuse to come and to be baptized , luk. . , . luk. . , . sure no man can be a church-member against his will. . the lord may well rebuke magus and iudas while they are church-members , the same way that he rebukes the hypocrites , psal. . , . and say what have you to do to declare my statutes , &c. for i know your hearts , how you hate instruction , &c. and yet the church sinnes not in admitting them . . m. h. confounds these two , to wit , the seeing of sinne , and reforming of their evill way , which is reall and sincere repentance , if it be a saving sight of sinne , they sincerely repent , if it be counterfeit , to wit , the giving evidence of godly sorrow and repentance , the church may see the latter , and yet magus and iudas remaine under the same reproof , for they may in their heart hate instruction , and act these sinnes of partaking with thieves secretly , and be secret adulterers , and the word may reprove them , and yet there is no blame in the church in either admitting them , or in bestowing church-priviledges upon them . chap. v. of the call of god to make a church , . there may be a true visible church , and members thereof , before there be any seals in that church . whether the preaching of the word be an essentiall mark of the church . master hooker pag . m. rutherfurd : such as internally hate to be reformed may be ordinary hearers and so members . m. h. if ordinary hearing made a member , then excommunicate persons should be members for they are ordinary hearers . ans. if m. r. make every ordinary hearing to make a member of the church ordinary and intire , he saith something . . this twitcheth the question whether the preaching of the gospel be an essentiall note and marke of the visible church . before i speak how far persons excommunicate are members or not members of the visible church , hence . any sort of profession , whether by an avowing of that gospel to one another , or suffering for it , even when the sheepheards are smitten and the flock scattered is a practicall and very speaking mark , that such a company is a true church . . a pastorall publishing of the word is a speciall mark and an great-half of a note of a ministeriall , politick , church . though the administration of the seals to those capable of them added thereunto make a more complete marke of a more complete ministeriall church . . the active call of god by the preached word may be transient and occasionall to mocking athenians , act. . and yet intended to save some , and to be a seed to some church , v. . certain be leed , this is the seed of some church , like some cornes of wheat scatteredly fallen in a field that may have an harvest , . this active call may be refused , and the refusers never be the church , luk. , . not visible members , they visibly refusing the call and counsell of god and neglecting obstinately to be baptized , luk. ● . . but we mean , beside this active call some passive professing and receiving of , and yiel●…g to the offered gospel . so as they came to the marriage-supper , whether they have , or want a wedding garment . mat. . and receive the seed , whether they be thorny , rockie , or a way-side ground , or they be good soile , and may yield some externall obedience ; in this consideration , pagans and turks are not passively the called of god , nor members of the visible church , though they be hearers ; but that they be ordinary fixed hearers , and yet in no sort externall professors , but remain without , and be pagans , is not conceiveable , except they professedly heare for curiosity , or to mock , or to undermine the gospel and church , and so they are not to be admitted to be hearers or church members , except by violence they thrust themselves in among hearers . . abraham called with his house to leave idolatry obeyeth the calling , buildeth an altar to the lord , gen. . , , &c. . professeth and teacheth as a prophet , the doctrine of the covenant , and god appearing revealeth the gospel to him , genes . . v. , genis . . , , , . and he believeth , and so he , and his house is a visible church , when , not while many yeers after , and untill he was ninetie years and nine , the seal of circumcision was ordained , and given to him and his house . genes . . , , . and the church is a true visible church in the wildernesse , in which was the angel , of the covenant who spake to moses in mount sina . act. . . ( which is a note and marke of a true visible church . revel . . . rev. . . ) which yet wanted circumcision and the passeover , forty years in the wildernesse . iosh. . , , . this proves that there is a true visible church , where christ is , and yet wanteth the ordinary seals , baptisme and the lords supper . . when the apostles first planted churches , we have no ground , that they preached to ephesus , to galathia , to philippi , to corinth , where god had much people ( as the lord before had told paul ) act. . , , , , , . act. . , , , . and that they framed them not into churches , untill , to the satisfaction of the judgement of charity of the apostles , they were converts , and so to them all chosen to eternall life , and untill they did , first , being a number of visible converts , choose paul and other planters of the churches , for their pastors , whereas they preached to them for their conversion , as no pastors at all ; before that choosing , but as gifted men , for that hath not the least shadow of truth in the word : so also they did first heare the gospel as disciples and visible professors , before they could be baptized or received to the other seale , as is evident , by the eunuches professed reading and asking the meaning of that which he read . isai. . act. . , , . and his professed seeking to be baptized , and the iaylors professed hearing , and asking what he should do to be saved . a●● . . , , . and by the hearing and pofessing of all his house , before they were baptized , and the corinthians , hearing and believing . act. . . and lydia , and her houses hearing . act. , . and the gentiles reverent professed hearing the word . act. . , , , . and the three thousand , act. . hearing and saying , ( which was a fair visible profession ) men and brethren , what shall we do ? before any of them were baptized . act. . v. , , , . which proveth , that both active preaching of the gospel , and a professed receiving thereof go before men be inchurched . and yet if these may be , to wit , hearing and professed receiving , here is an essentiall mark by which persons , before they receive the seals , are made members visible and disciples , and societies visible , and churches essentially differenced , . from all the false churches visible on earth , who have not the sound of the word preached , and professedly heard , and visibly received , and . from all civil societies , . from all pagan , and heathen societies on earth . ergo they were a distinct christian society , differenced essentially , and if they should all dye before they had been baptized , or had received the seals , they had been true visible church-members ; and if killed for the truth , they had dyed visible professing martyrs , and the called church of christ. . the visible church is a thing , whose being is in succession and dayly growing , and is a society dayly more stated ( as it were ) in a church-way , according as the active calling on the lords part , and his peoples yielding thereunto in a dayly profession go on , as isai . . the lord all the day long calleth , and ( to speak so ) inchurcheth dayly people by the preached word . math. . . how often would i have gathered you ? jer. . . he sendeth his prophets , early in the morning , and late at night to call . hence if that which is the essentiall mark of the church visible , to wit , the preaching of the gospel , be the onely instrument , and the draw-net of pulling out and calling of men into fellowship with christ , by the word preached : and if the seal do onely confirm converts , as discipline keepeth the visible kingdome clean from visible scandals , then are these who professedly in that society partake and receive that essentiall mark , and yield externally thereunto , members of the visible church , and a society made up of such a true visible church , though they receive not yet all the ordinances , and are as the outer court , which is a part of the temple . but the active calling of god by the preached word , and the peoples professed yielding thereunto , and their ordinary professed hearing , is such a mark , both by the word of god , and all our protestant divines , calvin , beza . b●l. p. martyr , bucanus , tilenus , piscator , musculus , gualter , iunius , pareus , zanchius , professors of leideu , willet , iewel , reynald , trelcatius , sadeel , polanus , &c. fathers , councels old and late , and our brethren cannot build their new churches , but by loosing the foundation-stones layed by these worthy builders , and the scripture maketh feeding of the flockes & setting up the sheepheards tents . cant. . , . ier. . . feeding of the flock , and the feed flock . act. . . pet. . . the golden candlestick in the preached word , and these in the house to whom it giveth light , the onely mark of a true visible church , so is it prophecyed it shall be under the new testament . isai. . . many people and nations shall go , and say , come , and let us go up to the mountain of the lords house : how shall the visible mountain be known ? and he will teach us his wayes , and we will walk in his pathes , for out of sion ( the visible church ) shall go forth the law , and the word of the lord from ierusalem , so isai. . . the visible city is known . i have set watchmen upon thy walls , o ierusalem , which shall never hold their peace , ( but preach and pray ) day nor night , psal. . . he sheweth his word unto iacob , his statutes and his judgements to israel . and that proveth them to be a church differenced from other societies , v. . he hath not dealt so with any nation . i grant statutes and judgements include seals , sacrifices as all the priviledges . rom. . , . to whom pertained the adoption and the glory , and the covenants and the giving of the law. yet by the word soundly preached is faith begotten , rom. . , and the flock fed , and the disciples made . matthew . , it is taught , that sacraments do but confirm faith , now a ministeriall begetting of children is ( to speak so ) more essentiall to the visible church , then to confirm them . . that doctrine is not to be holden , which teacheth us no way of certain knowing by faith what is the true visible church to which we may adjoyne our selves , and what not , but teacheth us a conjecturall way onely of finding the true visible church , as socinians , and arminians , who tell us the notes of the true church are not necessary to be known . . there is no certain way of knowing the true visible church , now our way that maketh the profession of the sound doctrine of the gospel a note of the true church , holdeth out a way of knowing by certainty , by faith which is the true church ; as we know which is the true doctrine . but sociniant say two or three fundamentals are all , and they give us a church so wide as taketh in all churches , papists , socinians , libertines , &c. and anabaptists , and those that are for toleration of all religions , yea , and for all errors not fundamentals ( since they know not well , what be fundamentals , what not ) shall give but conjectures , for the knowledge of the sound church . and m h. referres all to the judgement of charity , which is a meere doubting uncertain way of finding the true church . as to the argument , if preaching of the word were a true mark of the church , then were excommunicate persons members of the church , for they heare the word . i answer , . such as are excommunicate for apostacy from the truth ▪ . such as are stricken with the great excommunication , anothema maranatha cor. . . are not to be ordinary hearers of the word , and so the argument holdeth not of them , for they are simply rotten members . but for such as are excommunicated , because of some particular scandal , as incest , or a particular heresie , and yet professe the truth , as to all other points , they are members cut off , and yet not cut off , in so far as they retain a profession , yea and to the knowledge of the church , are visible converts , though in one particular scandal , they lye without and give , not such evidences of repentance , as the church can pardon them , as may be proven from the cor. . , , , . they are ordinary hearers of the word , as such as must be reclaimed by the preached word , as sick children , under the medicinall cure of excommunication , and the preached word that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord , cor. . but they are not ordinary hearers as visible professors , nor are they members complete of the church in the inner court ; admitted to the seals , . th●ss . , . they are cut off members , yet not counted as enemies , but to be admonish●d as breth●en . ergo though they be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as heathens and publicans , matth. . yet are they not simply to be counted pagans , nor occasionall hearers , as pagans , but brethren : and though mr. robinson , and some say the place thess. . is not meant of excommunicated persons , beside that it is against the text , against the current of sound interpreters , yet it proveth our point , that even such as walk disorderly , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , verse . and obey not the doctrine of the gospel , and with whom we should not keep company , v. . and so ought to be excommunicate , by m. hookers doctrine , yet remain brethren , and are to be counted so by members of the church , and are to heare the word of admonition , and so are visible professors , and so not utterly cast out of the visible church , and m. h doth no more refute our protestants , then the scripture who calleth such as are fed , and the hearers of the lords testimonies , the israel of god , and the sheep of his pasture , his flock , inheritance , his vineyard his garath of red vine , his spouse , and what is this but the church visible , psal. . , . hosh. . what ? because the excommunicated who thus hear ordinarily are not members of the church , because they are not whole & intire members , it is no more consequently spoken , then if he would say a wounded souldier , because he is wounded , and under cure , is not a member of the army and sworn to the colours , because he cannot march and fight as other souldiers . m. h. c. . part . . pag. . . and pag. . . suppose a minister should preach many yeares to a company of infidells in one place , and a lecturer to many people of diverse congregations in the same auditory , shall it follow that i●fidels are members of the visible church and that these make a visible church ? though there be here setled preaching , yet it is not an essentiall and differencing property of the visible church , but a commune adjunct or separable accident , as the sensitive faculty is not a proper mark of a man , though it be in man , for so might one and the same man be a member of four such visible churches , if they meet ordinarly , at several houres , to their severall lectures . answ. we mean by settled preaching preaching as opposed to transient and occasionall preaching , as when paul in passing on a journey preacheth to mocking athenians we grant that will not conclude that the sc●… who occasionally so heare , are members of the visible church , not think our divines preaching so to be an essentiall mark of the visible church , but by settled preaching , which we make such a mark , we mean . the active calling of god , by gods warrant and command to preach to such , for ministers may not at randome set up a light among infidels upon their own private choice and spirit , but if god so dispose that they have a faculty of speaking in their own tongue to pagans , . if providence open a door for a call , that there be any passive call or accepting of him for these diverse yeares upon the part of these infidels , and . if the lord gift the man and stir up his spirit to preach diverse yeares to these infidels in one place . i shall say there the lord hath said to that man , go and bid these infidels and fooles come to the wedding , as mat. . . and come to wisdomes table , as prov. . . and there is a visible church there : if these heathen heare and mock , and lyingl●…are , and still professe and practise the worshipping of their dumb idols , we shall say preachers have no warrant one year , let alone many years so to preach , and the man preacheth to them without warrant from god , and where there is no professed yielding in some measure , the supposition is without the state of our question . . the contret of a lecturer that preacheth the word to diverse professors from sundry churches , if . he have no warrant to administer the seals , or to exercise discipline over them ; he seemeth to me some catholick doctor i read not of in scripture , not unlike the popish and prelaticall deacon , who may preach and baptize ( as a midwife to them in case of necessity may baptize ) but not to administer the other seal . . if he be a lawfully called pastor , i shall say , the meeting is a true visible church of visible members met from sundry churches , and is not a fixed , but a transient church , and it is no more absur●d to say these are members of four visible churches , to wit , transient members , then to say they are members of the whole catholick visible church , and baptized . whether iewes or gentiles , all , by one spirit , unto one body , cor. . . being all one body , having one spirit , one faith , one lord , one baptisme . ephes. . , . though they belong to diverse particular churches : and this argument beggeth what is in question , that all sound professors are not members of the catholick visible church . this way settled preaching is no commune adjunct or separable accident of a visible church , but an essentiall note thereof . chap. vi. m. hookers . argument to prove that preaching of the sound doctrine of the gospel is no mark of the visible church . master hooker addeth , par . . chap. . pag. . if you say that settled preaching as established and remaining in the church is a mark of the church , so you make the church a mark of it self , this plea is too narrow . answ. it is not narrow , nor a plea either to say , that seeing eyes as fixed in a living creature we call animal , and hearing ears , &c. are an essentiall note of a living creature , whereas the eyes and ears not fixed in a living creature , but separated from it ; should be a narrow plea indeed , to be called the essentiall mark of a living creature ; and yet none can say that a living creature is made a mark of it self . they speak not feebly , but rationally , who say that rationall discoursing as fixed in a man is an essentiall mark of a man. m. h. par . . c. . pag. . m. rutherfurd said , the argument is nothing against us , such adulterers . psal. . as are not to take the law in their mouth , are to be cast out , but the question is whether , if they be not cast out , the church for that be no true church . m. h. answer , the first part yieldeth the cause again , for if they should be cast out , there is no reason they should be received , or taken in , nor have they any right thereunto , nor be they fit matter . answ. m. rutherfurd is not such a yielder of truth as so ; for m. hookers argument yieldeth more thus , these who are worthy to be casten out , had never right to be received in , as church members , so m. h. but adulterers who take the law in their mouth , known adulterers ( so m. rutherfurd yieldeth and no otherwayes ) are worthy to be casten out : ergo adulterers ; who take the law in their mouth , had never right to be received in as church-members . . m. hookers proposition is most false , for thousands , as magus , and others worthy to be casten out , had right ( church right , of that onely we speak ) such as pastors can give them , to be admitted members , so the scripture , so m. h. part . chap. . conclus . . pag. when then both the proposition and assumption are taught in scripture , granted by m h see now who yieldeth the cause . . to say if they should be casten out , ergo they had never right to come in ; is , as if he wou●d say , such a woman hath committed harlotry with many men beside her husband , ergo she had never right to be a married wife , and was never lawfully marryed ; and so hath neither committed adultery , nor deserveth a bill of divorce . no more can follow from this , that adulterers once admitted to membership , falling into scandals ought to be casten out , ergo if they had been under the same scandall visibly , they ought not to have been taken in , but this supposeth a begging of the question , that there is in scripture a gathering of churches of visible converts out of churches of men and women born and baptized in their infancy within the visible church , which yet i say was never dreamed of by the apostles , and though it were so , whether we speak of such a gathering , or of gathering of churches out of pagans , persons not capable of gospel-scandals , before their admission , which may hold them out , as they are guilty of gospel-scandals , after they profess the gospel . for then an unmarried woman might be capable of adultery with her own husband , before she be married upon him . . as to that which m. rutherfurd said , that supposed they were not cast out , the question is whether the church for that be no church . m. h. saith , that wholly misseth the mark again , for the question is twitching the constitution of the church , of what matter it should be made , it is not twitching separation from the church . to which i answer , because i dispute against both these of the congregation , and the separatists our brethren , having no arguments but such as separatists and anabaptists have , and with more vigour prosecuted then they , because i conclude against separation as well as against them , having to do with two adversaries , and giving one answer to the one , ( which yet is not taken off ) and another answer to the other , it is not equal dealing to say the answer to the separatists wholly misseth the mark , because it is not the same with the answer to the congregational way . . m. h. declineth an answer to that which i said against the separation , that if any were not casten out , it followeth not that the church leaveth off to be a church , and must be separated from . but our brethrens practise in new england is , if any church do not cast out such as deserved to be cast out , to non-communion them , and declare them to be no churches of christ , and so they must be separated from ; which can be upon no ground , but because they maintain a church to be no true church consisting of false matter , and visibly unregenerate ; and would m. h. have church-communion kept with such ? yea his arguments first and second , which are both but one , ( though he find out four , where there are scarce three ) prove them to be no visible church , for he must stand by this as his own . these to whom christ is head and king by the influence of politick guidance , and motion of the head as leige subjects , are the onely fit matter of the visible church , and the onely true visible church . but such as deserve to be casten out , and are not casten out , yea are owned still as church-members , are not such to whom christ is head and king . ergo such leave off to be members and are not a visible church ; the proposition and assumption both are m. hookers . i confesse when an answer cannot be taken away , it is a compendious way , to say not one word to it , but simply , the answer doth wholly misse the marke . m. h. must say a church of false matter is no church , or then with us , a society professing the pure doctrine of christ , though the members be wicked , is a true church . chap. vii . m. hookers reason why he passeth in silence the arguments of his own book of discipline of the churches of new england , for the constitution of a visible church , and defendeth them not : a scanning of these arguments . master hooker part . . ch . . pag. . passeth in silence the arguments of the way of the churches of new england , except a gentle hint he hath at the first , but he omitteth the nerves thereof , onely he bringeth four arguments of his own , in my apprehension , inferior , not a little , to the arguments of learned m. cotton , it was wisdome so to do ; onely in the place pag. . he giveth us a short list of his visible saints , we are ( saith he ) from rationall charity , to say and hope , and so are bound to conceive they are saints , ( converts and internally justified ) so iudas , magus , ananias , &c. ( though hidden hypocrites ) were such ; and therefore our saviour proceedeth with such , not as god who knoweth the heart , but in a church way as these who iudge the tree by the fruit ; the church cannot judge of bid things , nor censure them . answ. . then the saints , faithfull , brethren , temples of the holy ghost , at rome , ephesus must be proven to be visible saints from the scripture , from such a visible saintship , as our saviour and the apostles saw in these goodly ungodly saints , iudas , magus , &c. for if these titles conclude that they were internally converted , and chosen to grace and glory , &c. as ephs. . . thess. . . thess. . . cor. . . as they do , then must all and every visible member of these churches be visible elects , and predestinate to glory , which if our brethren say of all the members of all these visible churches , suppose magus and iudas had been among them , it is easie for any to prove the contrary . . but if so be that these titles prove they were all internally converted , and that our visible church must be such , or else they are falsly constituted , then how shall demas , magus , find roome in the visible church , as true members since they were not such ? if it be said that the argument which proveth that they weremore , may well prove the lesse , and that they had all the visible saintship that magus , iudas had , we shall grant that ; but then you must stand by this argument . such as were the members of the churches of corinth , rome , ephesus , thessalonica , &c. by these places cited by the discipline-book of new england , chap. . sect . . pag. . . cor. . . ephs. . . cor. . , . cor. . . cor. . . galat. . . math. . . to . such ought the members of our church visible to be , or then they are constituted of false matter . but the members of these churches by these places were really and internally converted and justified . ergo our churches visible must also consist of these that are really and internally converted and justified , or then they are constituted of false matter ; but the conclusion is false and absurd , for so christ and the apostles erred even proceeding in a church way in admitting iudas , magus , to be members ; for sure they were not internally and really converted and justified : and yet m h. maketh them true members , and his visible saints , it was wisdome therefore to m. h. to bury these arguments , and to contradict his own book of discipline , which page saith , that christ taxeth the pastors , by whose connivencei the man wanting the wedling garment came in , friend how camest thou hither ? m. h. saith , nay they were not taxed , that man conveyed it so cunningly that onely the master of the feast pe ●●ived it , others did not discover it , page . but all dependeth on the making good the assumption , that these places prove that they were inwardly and really converted , which i make good by these reasons , . the holy ghost expresly saith , they were the habitation of god through the spirit . temples of the holy ghost , espoused to christ as a chast virgin ; ergo they were really such : to say that paul speaketh according to the judgement of charity only , and in a church way , is to beg the question , there is not a word of any such judgement of charity in the scripture and our brethren have no law to adde to the scripture , to help their own cause . . if you adhere to this argument , you must say with m. h. that christ hoped and was bound to conceive by the fruits of iudas his life , that iudas was a saint , and might have some seeds of some spirituall , work of god in his soul , and yet christ saith , have not i chosen you twelve , and one of you hath a devill ? and this he knew from the beginning , iohn . , . because iesus not as god , but in a church-way dealt with iudas and such : i remit it to any man , if christ failed against charity , except he believed iudas to be a convert , before he betrayed his hypocrisie ; what warrant in the scripture for this ? . what ground that the apostles in charity believed and said that demas , magus , were converts , temples of the holy ghost , chosen to life , as the ephesians ? . . and thessalonians th●s . . . or then they had sinned in admitting them to the visible church , and baptizing them . . whereas he sayeth the church judgeth not of things hid ; whether the churches of new england do not judge and heavily censure ( though they will not give it that name ) all the baptized in their church , whom they exclude from church-membership and the lords supper , all their life , as if they were pagans , because they have not so much charity as to believe them to be visible converts ; judge reader . but ( say they ) this will not prove that they were internally and really converted , because paul saith so of them ; to which i say , then upon the same account must we expone these places ephes. . . god rich in mercy hath loved us , and when we ( paul and converted jewes and gentiles ) were dead in sinnes hath quickened us together in christ , in the judgement of charity and in a church way onely . . and hath raised us up together , and hath made us fit together in heavenly places in a church-way . verse we are his workmanship created unto good works , and we who verse . were sometimes without christ , strangers to the common-wealth of israel , . are now made neare in the blood of christ : and verse . we who were strangers , have accesse , by christ , through one spirit unto the father , onely in a church-way , by politick guidance of our head christ : and the like must be said of all the reall internall work of the spirit upon the hearts of all the saints at ephesus , colosse , corinth , thessalonica , &c. so they were by this reason light in the lord quickened , had christ dwelling in them by faith , were sealed , translated from death to life , &c. in a church way , and from none of these places can we conclude that they were really and internally converted , for all these places and reall works of grace must agree to iudas , magus , and to all such visible saints , because all churches visible rightly constitute must be made up , by this argument , of such visible saints , else they are false in the matter , and not according to the pattern of apostolick churches . . the assumption is made out also thus , as the apostle calleth them the body of christ , the habitation of god , temples of the holy ghost , so also he blesseth god and rendreth thanks to him , that had chosen to life the ephesians , blessed them with all spirituall blessings in christ , bestowed on them adoption , redemption , forgiyenesse of sinnes , the inheritance of glory , ephes. . , . &c. ordained the thessalonians not to wrath , but to obtain salvation by our lord iesus christ , thess. . . . had chosen them to salvation through sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth , thess. . . and upon this buildeth their comfort and faith , i thes. . , . . so coloss. . , , , , , , , , , . now what joy , comfort , faith , thanksgiving can have place , if these places be not understood of such reall internall graces , as election , conversion , &c. as iudas and magus neither have nor can have ? otherwayes all the hypocrites , as magus and iudas , have a like lively consolation with all the chosen of god ; and paul must blesse god , because he had chosen , called , justified , &c. such as magus and iudas . . i wonder the way of the churches should cite cor. . . for visible saintship which dependeth on the judgement of charity , for the place is evidently of reall converts , know ye not , that ye are the temple of god , and that the spirir of god dwelleth in you ? is this i pray you , the knowledge of charity , which is fallible , and may mistake ? nay this , and the like places cor. . . and the iohn . . iohn . . know ye not that christ dwelleth in you &c. by this we know that we know him , &c. are brought by our divines to prove against papists , that we may be infallibly perswaded that we are in the state of grace , and know our selves to be temples of the holy ghost , not by the fallible and erring judgement of charity ; which we never extend , but to other then our selves , but by an infallible certainty , though not of faith , yet of supernaturall sence and divine perswasion by which we know infallibly our selves to be in christ , . as to that argument , such should our churches be in their members constituent , as the church of rome , corinth , ephesus , were , when paul writ to them , and after they were now constituted and grown , it is most false . it is just as if aristotle would say and write to some of his disciples that had studied some years under him , you are excellently skilled in the knowledge of the first matter , of motion and time ; and another should inferre , ergo there be no academies on earth rightly constituted , where the scholars are not excellently skilled in the knowledge of the first matter , of motion , of t●me , before they be admitted members of the academie● now the argument should be thus ; such as were the churches of rome , corinth , ephesus , &c. as to their members constituent , before they were admitted to church membership , such should our visible churches be according to their members constituent before the members be admitted to church membership ; true , but the churches of rome , corinth , ephesus , &c. as to their members constituent , were before they were admitted to church membership , visible converts in the judgement of charity to the apostles , and planters , it is most false and can never be proven . and to argue from grown and planted churches , after paul had begotten the corinthians as a father , cor. . . to prove that our churches should be such in their constitution , is to say , such is a tall-tree now , ergo also before it was sowen it was not a seed , but a tall-tree : so the adversaries would not be content we should argue thus , such as was the church of sardis in its constitution , after it is now falling , such should ours be in its members constituent , before they be admitted members of the visible church : but the church of sardis , for the most part , consisted of such members as had a name they lived , and were dead , and had visibly defiled their garments , a few onely remaining visible converts , as verse . compared with verse . ergo our churches should be such , as to the members constituent . such arguing is as good as that of new englands , and yet christ had a golden candlestick in sardis , and walked among them , and held them as stars in his right hand , rev. . . now the conclusion should be against them , and the chief basis of all is , that the keyes are given to such , mat. . . to . as are blessed and enlightned , as believing peter was , who was not blessed for the profession that christ was the son of the living god ; for iudas was that way blessed who held out but a verball profession . chap. viii . mr. hookers first inference , that church-fellowship doth presuppose men to be visible saints , but doth not make them such , discussed . that men are first converted visibly before they be church-members is a grosse mistake , it leaneth on this , that the church which christ hath in his gospel instituted , to which he hath committed the keyes of his kingdome , the power of binding and loosing , the tables and seals , is a company of saints , a combination of godly faithfull men . so the church of n. england . from this it must follow that there is an instituted visible church void of pastors , which converteth souls before there be pastors , and so there must be sons and daughters before there be fathers and pastors to beget them to god , as ministeriall fathers ; and they must be fed before they have pastors to feed them , and if they be converted before they be in church-fellowship , and pastors must be nurse-fathers to feed and confirm these who were born before their father had being . the contrary whereof paul of the formed church of the galathians , that he did travel in birth till christ be formed in them , gal. . . and when he wrote the epistle to the corinthians , they were framed a visible church , and many not yet reconciled to god ; and yet in that case he saith , cor. . . though ye have ten thousand instructers in christ , y●● have ye not many fathers , for in christ iesus have i begotten you through the gospel . now that he begat them all and every one , and made , them visible converts , before he was their church-father , or they in church-fellowship , where is it sayed or dreamed , by any colour of truth ? yea cor. . , now then we are ambassadours for christ , at though god did beseech you by us , we pray you be reconciled to god , ergo this supposeth some state of non-reconciliation in many church members , rom. . . be not conforme to this world , but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind . ephes. . . that ye put off concerning the former conversation , the old man , which is corrupt according to the deceitfull lusts , and be renewed in the spirit of your mind , coloss. . . now lay you aside all these . . putting on the new man : all which and the like places directed to visible converts , must all be exponed without exception , of second conversion and of reiterating of conversion and reconciliation of these that are already converted and reconciled , which no scripture can perswade ; and by the like order , the children must be born and vsibly converted , before they were in the wombe of their visible mother who conceived and bare them , contrary to cor. . . nor can the mother be any thing but a nurse , nor any other in regard of bringing forth , but a barren mother , which bringeth not forth twinnes , contrary to cant. . . isai. . , , . . the scripture holdeth forth their pastors as pastors are sent to open the eyes of the blind , to turn them from darknesse to light , and from the power of sathan unto god , that they may receive forgivenesse of sinnes , act. . . yea and the scripture teacheth that we receive the spirit by the hearing of faith from pastors , as sent and in office , such as were the officed prophets , whose feet were pleasant upon the mountaines , as is clear , rom , . , . compared with isai. . . nah. . . . if many be brought in to the visible church and the house of wisdome , who are fooles and serving the world , as math. . , . prov. . , , , , . upon gods revealed intention and the aime and design of pastors , that they may be converted , and perfected by the work of the ministery , then are they not supposed to be converted before they be brought in to the visible church ; for god cannot intend that they be converted and regenerate of new , if their conversion and regeneration go before any such intention ; but the former is true . from the nature of the visible church , the office-house of wisdome , in which god intendeth to make fooles wise unto salvation . . from the preaching of the law and gospel , the onely means of conversion , whereas if all be presupposed to be converted , before they come into the house of wisdome , and the supper of the king , they should from pastors heare no doctrine of law humiliation to fit them for christ , but pastors should speak to them all as to converts , as to broken reeds , and to sheep that discernt the voice of christ , as to temples of the holy ghost , as to persons regenerated , justified , predestinated to life and to glo●… ry ; yea , and if a pastor preach to any of the flock as known now to be yet in th● state of nature ; that preaching is not by any command of god given to him as a pastor . nor. . from the revealed intention and command of god layed upon the pastors and ministers , whose aime is to endeavour the conversion of all , to espouse them to christ , to have them put off the old man , to have them rise from the dead , and that the gospel be not hid to them , nor the savour of death unto death , as it is to many in the visible church , cor. . , . cor. . , , . ioh. . , , . by m. h. his way . m. hookeer par . . c. , p. . answer the proposition faileth . these who are converts in the iudgment of charity , may yet , in gods intention , be brought in to the church , that they may be truly converted . ans. m. hooker leaveth out the chief word , wherein standeth the force of my argument , he speaketh nothing of gods revealed intention and command to call in fooles that they may be made wise , and he frameth his answer , as if i had argued from the bare intention and hidden decree of god. but i find that m. hooker utterly mistaketh the distinction of gods decree , and of his approving will , and therefore he taketh for one and the same , the decree or intention of god ( from which i bring not my argument ) and the revealed intention of god , or his commanding will : the ignorance of which is a stumbling to arminians , and socinians , and to m. hooker , who , as we shall h●ar , goeth on with them , but i judge it one mistake in judgment in that godly man , but no hereticall spirit , and therefore his defenders and followers would take heed to it . for i grant all that m. hooker answereth , but it is to no purpose , and quite beside the mark , and leaveth the argument untuitched ( which is too ordinary to that pious man ) for no doubt god in his decree and secret intention may intend , by the ministery of his servants , the true and reall conversion of many hypocrites , such as are no lesse unconverted , then magus and demas ; for he hath mercy , on whom he will , rom. . . but according to this way , these who are converts in the judgment of charity ( he should say only converts in that judgment ) are not according to gods revealed inten●ion and approving will or command taken in by pastors , that they may be really converted : for god giveth , in no sort , this command to pastors in his revealed intention . see that ye admit no fooles to wisdomes table or within wisdomes house , but such only as you believe in charity are reall converts , and both called and chosen , contrary to prov. . , , , . math. . , , . ergo by my revealed intention and command you are not to intend their conversion , but to presuppose that they were already converted : otherwayes , if the lord by his revealed intention and command will have such hypocrits who are but nominall saints , brought in that they may be truly converted , there must follow two contradictory intentions revealed in god : for the lords command to pastors is ( i command you to preach to these who are converts in the judgment of charity , that upon my intention , they may be truly converted : and also i command you , my pastors , preach to no church members , that upon my intention , they may be converted , because you are not to preach to any as pastors , but to such as ye know are already converted , according to my revealed intention and will. m. hooker seeing this addeth . but if m. rutherfurd mean that the church doeth of purpose receive them into the church to be converted , then it is crosse to his owne tenet , and a person may be received to the seales of the covenant , who doeth not notifie that he hath faith , nay the church may receive them to the seales , whom she knoweth hath no right to the seales , for she knoweth they are not invisible members , which in m. rutherfurds judgment only giveth them right . ans. it is not crosse to my tenet , that a person , such as demas and magus may be received to the seales , and yet they doe not notifie they have saving faith and internall conversion , for my tenet is that the church can only judge of visible walking and profession in point of admission or not admission to seales , and in that point the church hath nothing to doe to judge whether they have faith saving or not , none can partake savingly of the seales for their owne personall salvation and without sinne , but these only who have saving faith , but the church may admit without sinne multitudes , who eat and drink their own damnation , cor. . , . and yet passe no sentence of signes notifyng faith or no faith , internall conversion or no internall conversion upon them . m. hooker knoweth that m. r. differenceth between being admitted to the visible church , and to the seales , and yet be repeateth my tenet , as if i confounded these , because he confoundeth them himselfe . whereas m. h. sayeth ergo . the church may receive to the seales whom she knoweth hath no right ecclesiasticall to them : it followeth not ; for upon the churches part , the right is good to conferre the seales , upon the knowledge of notifying signes , but of signes in order to conversion or not conversion , that is the place of the master christ to judge , not of servants , in this case before they be admitted members . but that the church may admit to the seales whom she knoweth not whether they have right internall for their owne personall salvation , that i teach , and can make good from scripture , act. . math. . . cor. . , , . now i say , that its the place of christ , not of servants to judge of the conversion or not conversion of members , not because men may , in no sort , judge of the conversion of or non conversion of others ; for in these cases we may judge of the conversion of others . . in order to speak to their spirituall state , as converts , or not , act. . . cor. . . ( ) in the cases of duties of love , suppose we erre upon the matter , as math. . . joh. . . ( ) these that try intrants to the ministery are to judge authoritatively whether they be converts to them or not , tim. . . tim. . . but to judge so before their admission wants warrant of scripture : pastors as pastors converted none , yea according to the command of christ are to intend to convert none at all , by m. h. his way . . where m. r. teacheth , that to be invisible members giveth onely right to the seales , i know not . . i teach indeed that the church may of purpose receive in to the visible church , who are known members of the catholick visible church , and manifestly gracious , upon a purpose , that they may , in a particular congregation , be confirmed not converted . but that is nothing to our point , but m. hooker holdeth that pastors as pastors are called of god to convert no church-members , for they presuppose they were before converted : hence i say . . pastors doe either as pastors called of god preach to church-members , to convert them ? . or then as pastors called of god , they doe not preach to church-members , to convert them . this contradiction is inevitable . if the former be said . i gaine the point , and m. hooker must yeild the cause . if the latter be said . then must pastors as pastors called of god preach to church-members , as some other officers , either as ruling elders , which confoundeth the preaching elder , and the not preaching elder , contrary to the cor. . . tim. . . or ( ) as doctors , which again confoundeth the teaching , and the exhorting elder ; contrary to rom. . , . ephes. . . or ( ) as deacons , which is popish : for deacons serve tables , but attend not to word and prayer , act. . , , . or they preach to them , as private christians , and unofficed persons , upon an intention to convert church-members : for if only they preach as pastors to confirme them , not to convert them , they doe not fulfill their ministery which they have received of the lord , in all poi●ts , as they should , colos. . then they use not the word as pastors , for all uses , for reproofe , for correction , for instruction , for righteousnesse , tim. . . nor doe they as pastors , preach in season and out of season , by reproving , rebuking , exhorting . ( ) then must all pastorall feeding formally be in confirming only , not in feeding , nor begetting to christ , nor in restoring the lost , nor in bringing againe the driven away , nor in all these five points , ezek. . . which are ascribed to christ , who feedeth in his sent pastors , ver . . . micah . ver . . nor in delivering the sheep from the lion and the wild beasts . now this distinctions should be proved from the word of truth . . then pastors as watchmen give not warning of the sword , and of dying in sin , as ezech. . , , , . ezech. . , , , , , , , , &c. but as unofficed men , and private christians . but that , way all the citizens of the city shall be made watchmen , which the prophet ezechiel and ieremiah condemn , ierem. . ezech. . but it may be said , if pastors as pastors must instruct gain-sayers of the truth , as tim. . . then may gain-sayers of the truth be church-members ; but the latter is absurd . answ. it followeth not , this onely followeth , pastors may instruct gain-sayers and unconverted men , and intend their conversion in a church-way , by preaching and otherwayes , viz. as pastors , but if these gain-sayers were pagans and visible opposing jews , they are not church-members , nor can they be admitted while they remain such . chap. ix . mr hookers second inference . mistakes in judgment and practice do not hinder men from being visible saints . answ. it is too loosely spoken , without further explanation . all heresies that are works of the flesh , as socinianisms , &c. are called mistakes in judgment ; and this may infer toleration of all religions , and that men corrupt in their judgment may be truly godly ; wheras soundness in the faith is a special part of godliness , nor can a good conscience and a sound faith be separated ; see mr gillespie , miscellanie quest . chap. . pag. , . and consider whether then most of the sectaries of our time may not be members of visible churches at least ; such a weighty point in one word , should not have been determined , nor can it be a sound inference . third inference . the holding of the visible churches in england to be true churches ( suppose it were an errour , as it is not ) doth not hinder men from being fit matter for a visible church . answ. if it be no errour , to say that the churches of england are true churches , then is it true ; and why is it then unlawful to enter in church-fellowship with them ; the contrary of which mr h. proveth par . . ch . . pag. , . . why doth mr h. teach that the seals ought not to be gven to church-members of old england of approved piety , except they be inchurched their way : this saith that mr h. holdeth that all that are not inchurched their way are no church-members . whether mr rutherfurd doth unjustly ●mpute to separatists that they hold that onely such as are effectually called , justified and sanctified , to be the onely matter of a rightly constituted church . mr hooker par . . ch . . pag. , , , &c. complaineth of mr rutherfurd that he dealeth not fairly and candidly with the brethren of the separation and others , and saith that they teach that onely internally justified ones are the matter of the true visible church ; and he alledgeth passages out of mr ainsworth and mr robinson , who though they speak in too narrow expressions , yet mind no such thing ; for then they should be all chosen and elected that are members of the visible church ; which in words they openly deny . answ. i am conscious to my self of nothing , but a fair and christian dealing with these godly men against whom i writ , and all that mr h. bringeth , citations from mr ainsworth and mr robinson , i acknowledge in words saith the contrary of what i alledge , and i know it to be so ; but is it any thing against pious moderation , that i prove that their arguments contradict their conclusion ? and that one place of m. robinson contradicteth another ; is it against pious moderation that chamier , pareus , iunius , amesius , object to bellarmine and to papists ( though i judge there be some difference in the matter ) contradictions , that they writ things contrary to their own grounds , and to things which they in open words peremp●orily deny , as mr hooker speaketh , pag. , i confess if i make these contradictions not to appear , i wrong them either wilfully , which were in me wickedness ; or if of ignorance , it is much weaknesse and more . but . as mr hooker bringeth citations from mr answorth , mr robinson , why doth he not from his own writings bring the like ? for i alledge the same against his own way ; for the way of the churches of new england s●ct . . ch . . pag. , . faith more then the brethren of the separation eve● did say . the lord iesus is the head of the church ev●n the visible church , and the visible church is the body of christ iesus , cor. . . the habitation of god by the spirit ; ephes. . . the members of the visible . church are said to be the temples of the holy ghost , cor. . . espoused to christ , as a chast virgin , cor. . . sons and daughters of the lord god almighty , cor. . . how can they be members of the body , or the spouse of christ , &c. ex cept they in charitable disor●tion be ( 〈◊〉 indeed the holy ghost describeth them to be ) saints by calling ? cor. . . and faithful brethren , gal. . . and that not by external profession , for these are too high styles for hypocrites , but in some measure of sincerity and truth . let that be answered ; these who not onely in point of charity , and not onely in external profession , but in some measure of sincerity and truth must be the habitation of god by the spirit , the temple of the holy ghost &c. or then they cannot be admitted members of the visible church , must be internally justified , sanctified , and chosen , before they can be members of the church visible ; but such must all admitted members be , by these places cited by the churches of n. england . m. h. or his defendants choose what they please , and answer , and i shall be cleared . . from this passage , by the way , observe another argument of the church of n. england . ibid. such should be members admitted to the visible church , as are exhorted to be followers of paul as dear children , ephes. . . so must the arguments be . i assume ; but all visible converts or non converts , all known drunkards , harlots , atheists , &c. are exhorted to be followers of paul , yea that exhortation obligeth all the known enemies of god in the visible church , to be renewed in the spirit of their mind , to be converted from dumb idols to serve the living god , for all are exhorted to obey the whole gospel , heare it , even the scoffing athenians , act. . . i argue from the fifth argument these cannot be judged fit matter for the visible church , and con●●i●uting and edifying thereof , who are more fit for the ruine and destruction thereof ; such as all hypocrites who will leave their first love , and destroy the church . i assume , but all latent hyp●crites , such as iudas and magus , as wel as open hypocrites , are more fit for the ruine and destruction of the church , and will leave their first love . if it be said that latent hypocrites appearing to us to be godly and converts , may be judged ( mistakingly and erroneously ) to be fit materialls for the constituting and edifying of the church , are men ( ) made members of christs body , and christ made the head of magus iu as , not by christs command so much as by mens erroneous judgment . ( then the visible church hath all its ess●…nce and nature founded upon judgment that may erre , and upon no certain ▪ rule of the word . ( ) then should the apostles have taken more time , and advised more maturely , before they made magus , ananias members of the visible church . . all the arguments brought by m. hooker and the way of the churches of n. england and separatists , doe conclude they must be really and internally sanctified , before they can be such members as are in the church of rome , ephesus , &c. and m. hooker putteth not a finger to them to answer these that i alledged . . let him answer that which m. robinson hath pag. . all the churches that ever the lord planted consisted of only good , as the church of the angels in heaven , and of mankind in paradise . god hath also the same ends in creating and restoring his churches ; and if it were the will of god that persons notoriously wicked should be admitted into the church , god should directly crosse himself and his owne ends , and should receive into the visible covenant of grace , such as were out of the visible state of grace , and should plant such in his church , for the glory of his name , as served for no other use then to cause his name to be blasphemed , pag. . in planting of the first church in the seed of the woman , there were only saints without any mixture ; now all churches are of one nature and essentiall constitution , and the first is the rule of the rest . ans. i now perceive that m. hooker and his followers in this point defend m. robinsin and the separatists , as m. hooker chap. . pag. , . but i must say these words ( thus we have cleared the expressions of our brethren of the separation ) must be an owning of their cause . ans. but m. hooker should also clear m. hooker and his own from contradictions , as well as m. robinson : for m. robinsons argument must be thus , or nothing . such as is the essentiall constitution of the first church in paradise , in adam and evah not yet fallen in sinne , and the church of the angels in heaven , before their fall , such must be the constitution of all our visible churches now , for all churches are of one nature and essentiall constitution , saith he . i assume . but the church in paradise , and of angels before either of them fell , consisted of only such as were inwardly and effectually sanctified . ergo such must be the constitution of all our visible churches now , to wit , they must consist of only inwardly and effectually sanctified , and free of all sinne . but the conclusion is absurd , for if so , our visible churches must be as clean from sinne , as the church of angels and of our first parents were , when they were first created , and yet m. robinson saith pag. . for we doubt not but the purest church upon earth may consist of good and bad in gods eye , of such as are truly sanctified and faithfull , and of such who only for a time , put on the outside and vizard of sanctity ; so m. robinson : the wit of man shall not clear these expressions from contradictions . . if it be not the approving and commanding will of god ( for of that will given to men who planteth churches , he must speak , or he speaketh nothing ) that the wicked be admitted into the church , then it is not gods will that magus , demas be admitted into the church : but this latter is absurd , and contrary to both mr. robinson iustif. of separat . pag. . and to mr. hookers survey , par . . ch . . pag. , . and contrary to the scripture , act. . , , , , , , , . compared with act. . , . act. . , , . mat. . , , , . how is mr. robinson now cleared if it be said ay ? but mr. robinson said , it is not gods will that persons notoriously ( or visibly wicked , should be admitted into the church . he said not as you repeat his words , leaving out notoriously ) it is not gods will that persons wicked should be admitted into the church . i answer it , but this he must say , or he saith nothing at all . for . if it were gods will that wicked persons should be admitted to the church , then should he crosse himself and his own end , because wicked persons doe no lesse crosse god and his end , the glory of his name , then the notoriously ( and visibly ) wicked ; for both cause his name to be blasphemed , and the force of his argument cannot lie in the notoriety or visibility of crossing of gods end , but in the very crossing of it in it self , see mr. ball. gods creating of the first visible church of angels and men without sinne , is not a binding and commanding rule to pastors and to the church to admit none to the visible church , but such as god created members of the first visible church free of all sinne , or because there is a standing obliging rule to pastors and the church , such as this ( admit not in the church of christ professed pagans as members thereof ) but to god there was no rule but his free will by which he created the first visible church of only saints , without any mixture . mr. robinson and mr. hooker both doe wildly misconceive ( to say no more ) the distinction of the lord his discerning will or his eternall purpose , and his commanding and revealed will , if they suppose ( as their reasoning doth necessarily argue their mind to the judicious reader ) with socinians and arminians that every sinne is a crossing of the lords end and purpose ; and that ; . god decrceth and intendeth many things that shall never be ; . that god may be frustrated of his ends and purposes , and misse the mark in his decrees , though they , i judge , be innocent of any such heresie . . if by the will of god be here understood , the commanding will of god which forbiddeth sinne , and enjoyneth what is right , as mr. hooker and his , who approve of this constitution of the separatists with mr. robinson , must doe , then must the lord in commanding his pastors and church to receive iudas , magus , as fit materialls of the visible church , as mr. hocker teacheth pag. . expressely command sinne , which is blasphemy , because the holy lord must command to receive into the visible covenant of grace , such as were out of the visible-state of grace ; and such to be planted in his church , for the glory of his name , as served for no other use then to cause his name to be blasphemed . chap. x. what mr hooker fartherbringeth to prove that visible churches consist of visible saints . master hooker , pag. . the pinch of the difference lieth in this , whether such as walk in a way of profaneness , or remain pertinaciously obstinate in some wickedness , though otherways professing and practising the things of the gospel , have any allowance from christ , or may be accounted fit matter according to the termes of the gospel to constitute a church , this is that which is controverted . answ : this is a disorderly stating the question after battl given . . this pinch of a difference of men walking in pagan profaneness ( for of such the question must be ) whether they should be counted fit matter to constitute a visible church , though otherwise they profess and practise the things of the gospel , cometh to this , whether walkers professedly after their idol-gods , and yet professing and practising the gospel , should be counted fit matter of the visible church : we answer ; such are not the fit matter of the visible church ; and yet are not to be suddenly and wholly debarred from being ordinary hearers , so they profess their willingness to hear . . if the question be of such as are baptized and live within the church as ordinary hearers , who practise and profess the things of the gospel , we say these are already within the church by their baptisme and profession , and in regard they remain pertinaciously wicked , though baptized and so professing , they should be unchurched and cast out . . that any such as obstinately remain wicked have allowance from christ , that is , a command to constitute a visible church as members , is all one as to say , whether commandeth christ men to be members of the church , and to be also pertinaciously wicked : which is no plous question , for it is whether doth christ allow men to be hypocrites ? or if by allowance from christ mr hooker mean , whether doth christ allow and command the pastors to own obstinate wicked men , as members , because they profess and practise the things of the gospel ? we answer , they ought not to admit or baptise pagans of that sort , and if they be baptised , and so wickedly they profess , they ought to cast them out . chap. xi . other arguments of mr hooker for the constitution of a church of onely visible saints . master hooker , par . . ch . . pag. , . q. what is required of a man of years to fit him in the judgment of the church , for baptisme , that and so much is required to make him a member . but visible holiness is required to fit a man of years to be baptized . the consequence admitteth no denial , because to be baptized , and to be admitted a member , infer each other . the assumption is proved by the constant practise of john baptist , matth. . , . where jerusalem , judea , scribes , people and souldiers came to be baptized of him , they confessed their sins , it was a confession that amounted to repentance ; so john verse . bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and amendment of life . luke . . what shall we do ? the apostle answers , acts . . repent and be baptized ; the works of repentance and the aime of baptisme do import as much ; remission of sins calleth for such competent knowledge of christ , as may make way for the sight of the need of a saviour , and also of a going to him . answ. this argument may pass current with these that deny infant-baptisme , which mr h. and his do not ; but if to be baptized say that the baptized is a member of the church , must not either the infants of church-members be not baptized with them , and so no members of the church , which is strange ? or may i not argue thus with anabaptists against mr hooker ? what is required of a man of years to fit him for baptisme in the judgment of the church , is also required to make him one within the covenant of grace . but onely to be born of believing parents maketh a man of years in the judgment of the church , to be within the covenant of grace . ergo , onely to be born of visible parents maketh a man of years fit to be baptized . the assumption is clear , because that god be our god and the god of our seed , gen. . maketh both parents and children within the covenant , yea also within the visible church , as the church of new england truly teacheth , and giveth them right to baptisme ; and when egypt shall be the people of god , as is foretold , isai. . . egypt is the church visible , and all their seed , when they so profess , except these two be different , to be professedly god 's people , and to be a visible church , which cannot be said ; and therefore the argument presupposeth a falshood , and beggeth the question : that there is one thing required of a man of years born within the visible church , to fit him in the judgment of the church for baptisme and church-membership , and another to fit an infant for baptisme and church-member-ship , when an infant born within the visible church , by his birth is fitted both for church-membership in the judgment of charity , and for baptisme ; and so the argument proveth that the children of believing parents must have some new qualification before they can be received members of the church visible ; and yet it is granted their birth made them members of the church visible ; so they are members and not members . . if to be baptized and to be admitteed members , infer each other , to mr hooker saith , ergo , all that are baptized are members of the visible church , and all members of the visible church must be baptized . how then doth the churches of new england refuse multitudes whom they know to be baptized , and came from england to be church-members ? . see how mr hooker maketh out the assumption ; to wit , from the constant course and practise of iohn baptist , math. . , . in which he laieth this as a ground , that in all iudea and ierusalem ( for iohn baptized them all , mark . . ) there was no visible church , no visible saints , no converts till iohn made them such by baptisme . i hold that christ was born in the visible church , and that simon , anna , zachariah , elizabeth , and many others were visible church-members before iohn baptized them , and that the church of the jews and of baptized christians were both the same visible church , the one believing professedly in him who was to come , the other in him who was already come . . he presumeth that by iohns baptizing these were framed up in particular independent congregations , by a church-covenant , for this is brought to prove the frame of visible churches of new england by mr hooker : but how the text speaketh this , who can see , except mr hooker himself ? for all judea and jerusalem were baptized , mark . . : how proveth he that all the baptized were visible converts that came to iohn ? those that confessed their sins , by such a confession as iohn required , to wit , which amounted to repentance , and bringing forth fruits worthy of amendment , these were visible converts , before they were baptized . yea say i , if the confession amounted so high in the practice of all iudea , as the precept and command of iohn required , then all the land of iudea , ierusalem , and all the region round about ierusalem , who were all baptized , matth. . , . mark . , . all the people , luke . . were not only visible saints , but did all really repent and bring forth fruits worthy amendment of life : for mr. hooker his argument is not from the peoples practice , but from iohns command . bring forth fruits &c. so mr. hooker . they confessed their sinnes , v. . it was such a confession as amounted to repentance ; that i confesse is a sea of charity to all the visible saints . now hear how m. hooker exponeth their practised confession , the baptist so interprets is , bring forth fruits worthy of repentance and amendment of life . now sure iohn commanded never such a confession , as magus the witch made act. . nor a visible repentance such as maketh a visible saint , but he commanded a reall internall repentance , otherwise saith he , if ye bring not forth good fruit , matth. . ver . . see your doome , every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewen down and cast into the fire . and therefore if the argument stand thus , such a confession 〈◊〉 iohn baptist commandeth matth. . , . such must be in all before iohn baptist and the church can lawfully baptize them , or admit them to the visible church , otherwise they sinne who baptise and receive into the visible church visible hypocrites . but iohn baptist requireth reall and internall repentance , without which the baptized should be cast into hell fire , mat. . . but the conclusion is so grosse , that mr. hooker could not dreame of it . but the truth is , the precept of repentance is not given to the jewes , so as obedience thereunto must be necessarily required before iohn baptist can lawfully and without sinne admit them to baptism , and into the christian visible church , but for their either more personall and fruitfull receiving of the sacrament , or farre rather , that they may be saved from the wrath to come , matth. . . luk. . , . . and as to that act. . . what shall we doe ? if it conclude any thing it must have this meaning , men and brethren what shall we doe , before ye can owne us as visible saints , and baptize us without your hazard of casting pearles before swine ? this is to doe violence to the word of god. but these words ( what shall we doe ? ) must be all one with the like of saul , act. . . and of the jaylor , act. . . what shall we doe to be saved and to obtaine life everlasting , and a due roome in the visible church of grace here , and at length of glory ? and it is clear that repentance which the apostles command is the course of repentance all their life to be performed , both before and after baptisme , ver . . and with many other words did he testifie and exhort , saying , save your selves from this untoward generation , which is , walk not in the way of this people : and doth peter advise no repentance , but such visible repentance as was to goe before their baptism ? certain he adviseth repentance , new obedience and perseverance therein to their lives end after they should be baptised . . as to the ayme of baptism , which is for remission of sinnes , it importeth a confession such as amounteth to repentance reall and true , yea constant and induring to the end , ergo they were justified and effectually redeemed in christ , and persevered therein to the end , before iohn could baptise them without sinne : how weak are these ? and so these huge multitudes were never baptized untill they all died reall converts , and that was never at all ; for the baptist so requires , before they were baptized . . who shall believe that when iohn baptized , mark . all the land of iudea , and all ierusalem and matth. . all iudea , and all the region round about iordan : and luk. . . and all the people ; that they were all in iohn baptist his judgment of charity , sound believers , and that all these brought forth fruits worthy of amendment of life ? and that all these were pardoned and justified in christ , and that they were the habitation of god through the spirit , as ephes. . . when iohn preacheth to them , even to the multitude that came forth to be baptized , luk. . . and to many of the pharisees and sadduces as to a generation of vipers , matth. . . . as to hypocrites that gloried they were abrahams sons , and would think they were more then gods sons , when they were now washen by baptisme , the new seale of the new testament ? . as to fruitlesse trees ready to be burnt in hell fire , ver . . . as to these washen with water by a man , not inwardly baptised by christ ver . . . to a visible company in which there were wheat and chaff ? certainly iohn should break the bruised reed , if he preached not to them as to reall sons of abraham , inwardly baptised , fruitfull trees , and wheat into the lords barn . . nor is there any warrant to think that they all asked , what shall we doe ? and did all bring forth fruit worthy amendment , and that the pharisees and sadduces who came to be baptized , matth. . . did bring forth such fruits , before iohn could baptise them , act. . they were baptized the same day : neither must that passe , which our brethren say , that iohn repelled not only the scribes and pharises , matth. . . but also the prophane people from baptism , as those who were a generation of vipers , and had not yet brought forth fruits meet for repentance , ver . , . ans. let the text speak , mark . . and there went out unto him all the land of iudea , and they of ierusalem , and they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were all baptized . matthew saith chap. . v. . and seeing many of the pharisees and sadduoes come to his baptism , he said , generation of vipers , who hath forewarned you to flee from the wrath to come ? which argueth rather that he admitted them ; but as calvin well sayeth , he citeth them before the inner tribunal of their consci nce , that they may severely examine themselves , luk. . . he said the same to all the multitude that came to be baptized , but especially to he pharisees , but that iohn refused to baptize them , there is not one word in the text , but the contrary , mark . . luk . . matth. . . i deny not , but beza , pareus , piscator , on matth. . say that iohn admitted none to baptism but such as they judged worthy ; but that such worthinesse was reall regeneration in the judgement of iohn , no divine sayeth . but withall piscator sayeth on mark , that bellarmine hath no ground for auricular confession . it is not probable that iohn sought a publick confession of secret sinnes . now it is known , mr. hooker the book of discipline of n. england requires farre beyond auricular confession . the rhemists speak just almost in the language of m. h. confessing their sinnes , not acknowledging themselves in generall to be sinners , but also uttering every man his sinnes , m. h. they confessed their sinnes . ver . . it was such a confession as amounted to repentance . and their own words evidence as much . luk. . , . what shall we doe ? if it was such a repentance as iohn commanded ; and such it was ( sayeth m. h. ) then it was reall and constant , enduring to the end . and this is more charity bestowed upon iudea , then the iesuites of rhemes give them ; for they are content to stay within a precept ( m. h. sayeth all iudea repented ) he preacheth repentance ( say they ) by doing worthy fruits or works of penance . now m. h. must make this confession , if it amounted to repentance , most particular of all and every one of them , which d. fulke sayeth was impossible ; and cartwright , that it was common not full , and proveth it by many arguments : and sure , that multitude must have lived upon locusts and wild honey , that iohn might have been satisfied with their spirituall good estate as lively stones , as our brethren speak , our brethrens confession must have as long a space , to wit , seven yeares , as d. fulke sayeth anricular confession would have taken . some bring the place luk. . . to prove that iohn refused to admit the pharisees to baptism . but that place sayeth it was their sinne who would not be baptized , and so despised the counsel of god , whereas the publicans glorified god , being baptized with the baptism of iohn , ver . , . as calvin well observeth , comparing the publicans and pharisees together . see diod●ti and the english divines ; for it is not holden forth as their punishment , that iohn debarred them as unworthy . yea all that came to be baptized , mat. . mark . luk. . were baptized . nor is it of weight , that philip sayeth , act. . thou mayest be , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , be baptized , if thou wilt , so the word noteth , matth. . . ver . . . matth. . . matth. . matth. . . matth. . . matth. . . mark. . . ver . . luk. . . ioh. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ioh. . . ioh. . there is no shadow , in the text , that the lawfulnesse is referred to philip his act of baptizing , as if philip might without sinne baptize ; as if i should say , i philip cannot lawfully baptize thee except them believe with all the heart ; but it is clearly referred to the eunuches believing . for . philip had more ground of the soundnesse of the eunuches profession so as he might lawfully have baptized him , then he had to baptize magus ; finding the holy ghost had directed philip to goe to him , act. . , . . he found him reading scripture , and desirous to know the meaning of it , . and destrous to be baptized ( . ) there is no shadow of reason in the text , that it was a case of conscience to the ennuch , whether it was philips sinne to baptize him , except he knew he had true faith ; but clearly he himself doubted whether he might be baptized , or not , . philip requireth of the eunuch reall believing with all the heart ; but visible believing as magus had , was sufficient for philip to baptize without sinne in the baptizer . quest. what ignorance exoludeth from church membership ? m. h. that ignorance which maketh persons to be no church , that will hinder a person from being a member . but there is a simple ignorance of points fundamentall , that maketh papists that never heard the gospell , and so have not wilfully rejected it ( sayeth m. r. ) to be no members of the church . a●s● , m. h. to be admitted a member and to be baptized ( sayeth he pag. . ) inferreth each one another . but all the members of the church of rome ( sayeth he par . . c. . pag. ) have received true baptisme . let m. h. answer m. h. . that ignorance that hindereth persons to be no church visibly professing , will hinder persons to be true members of the visible professing church . the proposition is denyed ; for infants ( sayth calvin ) baptized are so ignorant , and they are admitted members ( say our brethren ) in and with their parents , . m. r. speaketh of the visible church , of which papists ignorant of fundamentalls , are not members . chap. xii . how profession doth notifie conversion . mr. h. that profession which must notifie to the church , that a person is a true believer , that must notifie that he hath true grace . but the profession that m. r requireth , must notifie to the church that he is a true believer , pag. . faith giveth right to the seales ; profession , to speake acu●ately , doth only notifie to the church that the man hath right to the seales . so m. r. ans. what is in question to m. r. it is one thing to be a church-member , as infants and fixed hearers are ; and another thing to be by profession , capable of both the seales : the latter are such determinate church-members , or church-members in speciall , but all members are not capable of both seales . . the profession that m. r. requireth doth notifie , m. r. said not , faith must notifie to the church that a person is a true believer , before he can be admitted a member of the church by the church . and that is the question now . not what profession doth notifie simply ; but what it must notifie to the church before the church can lawfully admit them to be members . m. r. never said that ; nor sayeth m. r. that not every profession , but that which is apparently true doth notifie so much , and that which is only savoury to the godly . . as also m. h. addeth to my words , the adjective , true , which is not in my words ; yea i teach that the profession of demas , magus , doth not notifie that they are true believers : and though visible profession should notifie true faith , it is not necessary that it must offer to judicious charity such overweighing evidences as the church cannot lawfully admit magus a member , but they must first positively judge him a reall convert ; and the like iohn must judge of all iury whom he baptized . . since m. h speaketh of admission to the seales in the plurall number , he must mean both the seales ; hence let this quaere be answered by our brethren , whether they think that profession doth notifie to a charitable judgement that all infants of church-members , because born of church-members , are reall converts . if so , birth must give conversion , and david must give to absalom conversion by birth . . all infants so born must be regenerate ; but experience and scriptures teach that many so born turn apostates , and prove sonnes of perdition . how our brethren shall free themselves of some baptismall regeneration , and of the apostacy of the justified and truly sanctified , let them consider , and the sound reader judge ; for our brethren tell us , it is not lawfull to put the seale upon a blank . chap. xiii . of degenerate members of the church . a church constituted of fit matter may be corrupted by their breaking forth into scandals , as is clear in corinth , galatia , sardis , and the church of the iewes , to whom the lord threatneth a bill of divorce , hos. . and there is a necessity of toleration untill by a judiciall proceeding the evill be tryed , the party convinced , or out off . ergo the corrupting of a church constitute gives no allowance to bring in corrupt members : but by the contrary , if a pentinaclo●● member should be removed , then such a member should not be admitted . ans. . this is the argument of mr. robinson , and most are borrowed from separatists and anabaptists in this theme , if such as are known to be no visible members must be tolerated , untill censures be applied and they convinced or cut off , in that intervall the church must either give the seales to them , and their seed , or not . if the former be said , then must the church knowingly prophane the holy things of god. and so visible members as visible saints , and under that formall reduplication as visible converts , are not admitted to the church , but as tolerated scandalous persons , upon whom the church bestowes church-admission and seales , untill it be seen they are converts visible , which destroyeth a principall pillar of the brethrens way . if the latter be said , that the seales are to be denyed to them and to their seed , in the intervall , then the visible saintship so judged is not the formall reason of membership and church-priviledges , to wit , of seales ; for hence seales are denyed to such members as are seen to be scandalous , but not casten out , which againe destroyeth the same principle . . the argument presupposeth that none are excommunicate , but under the formall reason of visible non-converts . ergo david , peter , and such are undoubtedly visible converts , cannot be excommunicate for adulterie or murther , though visible they remaine as to all other things ( save in the matter of uriah , and the one particular scandall for which they are excommunicate , sound and savoury saints ) but the church must judge david , peter , and all such whom they excommunicate , non-converts and unchosen to glory ; which is against the brethrens way also : for if none be admitted church-members , but such as according to the command and revealed will of god are judged converts visible ; ergo all casten out are no members , and so non-converts , and should not have been admitted but holden out , though in other things they be visible converts . . m. h. cannot produce any argument of m. r. wherein he argueth simply from corrupted and degenerate members , such as the jewes were , act. . who blaspheme , contradict and openly put away the gospel , that such may be admitted and planted in churches . but sardis , for the few names therein , is one of the seven visible churches and golden candlesticks among which christ walks , rev. . and m. hooker yeilds the seales were due to these members and their feed , though they had a name of living members and were dead , so they were not visibly scandalous ; but m. r. his argument is not brought , but a new one , for m. r. saith that god made a covenant , deu. . with the body of the people for the elects sake , said to be hard , blind , d●● . . . stiff-necked , deu. . . a● that time but professed repentance , deu. . . our saviours aime and decree or intention of saving ( which is hidden from us ) and the lords deep dispensation in long bearing with the church of the jewes , and calling them lo-ammi , not my people , hos. . ( for that he cites ) is no rule to us , but the revealed will ; nor is the church to forbear to censure so long as god punisheth not ; yea then should the priests have admitted into the temple the worshippers of baal , such as offered in the high places to other strange gods ; for god cast not the people of the jewes nor such idolaters utterly off at that time , but he sent prophets to them . and there is a farre other consideration of a whole church , and of iezabel a single person . he will not remove his candlestick from sardis , but he offends that iezabel is not casten out . chap. xiiii . the answers of mr. hooker to the arguments of mr. rutherfurd are discussed and disapproven . the places acts . , . &c. and magus his admission , act. . . considered . first argument . in the first receiving of members by the apostles , there was but a professed willingnesse to receive the gospel howbeit seme received it not from the heart . m. h. answereth ; there was not only a professed willingnesse , but a practicall reformation , that in the judgement of charity giveth grounds of hope that there is something reall , before the contrary appeare ; therefore peter who received magus upon his approbation of the truth , and outward conformity thereunto in the course of his life , rejected him as one in the gall of bitternesse , who had no share in christ , and therefore certainly would not suffer him in the priviledges of communion , so persisting without repentance . ans. . not professed willingnesse , but also practicall reformation is required . but is not professed willingnesse in murtherers of christ , who said , what shall we doe to be saved , some practicall reformation ? there is nothing but conjectures , that the apostles did not admit all and every one of the three thousand , untill they had experience of their state of grace . and judicially determined so of them all . . this practicall reformation was not an experience of their practise of savoury walking , required by m. h. p. . cap. . pag. , . in visible saints before admission , except some four or five houres time may create an habituall experience , for the same very day they were baptized , acts . . ( ) m. h. should prove that the apostles found this practicall reformation in all , ananias , saphira , and the whole ; and that the apostles tryed and smelled the savourinesse of saving grace in all ; in saphira , the text giveth not the least jot of this , we mu● take it upon the naked assertion of m. h. ) that this practicall reformation gave to the apostles judgement of charity ground of hope , that there was something reall , that is , the whole number about three thousand ( none excepted , for all were made church-saints visible ) gave grounds of hope that they were all really ( otherwise their speaking and hearing the word was reall , that is , not imaginary ) internally and effectually called , and born over againe of the spirit , and so chosen to life eternall from eternity , before the apostles durst without the offending of god admit them to church-fellowship and visible communion ; those ( i say ) must be proven . if i durst , i am not farre from judging the godly and judicious in cold blood , free of heate of dispute , dare not so judge of the text , acts . or acts . ( ) there is no shadow acts . that peter ( m. h. should say philip ) admitted not magus while he saw such grounds of the sorcerers reall conversion and reall predestination to glory ( ) peter said that magus had no share in christ. true , but said he that he was an unbaptized man who had no share in the visible church ? no. ( ) but he would not suffer magus to share in the priviledges of communion , he persisting without repentance . true , but it is no answer to the argument from the manner of receiving in , this is something to the casting out , ( ) that peter reproveth him in the gall of bitternesse . . exhorts him to repent , to pray for pardon , were great priviledges of church-communion bestowed upon magus . the practise of the apostolick church is to be considered in three cases . the . case is . . when churches are gathered out of churches , for example , out of galatia , ephesus , where infants are born and baptised church-members within the visible church , hence we seek a warrant , why these who were once members of the visible church and baptized , as the answer to the sayeth , and so clean and holy , cor. . . rom. . . ( ) in covenant with god , acts . , . act. . , . gen. . . cor. . , , . &c. ( ) and so redeemed by the blood of christ and baptized into his body , cor. . . even unto christ , gal. . . act. . , . when they come to age , are for no scandall unchurched , and because they cannot give evidence of reall conversion , yet for . or . years , and to their dying day , are no more church-members then pagans ? . how could ye baptize pagans ? they are so straited with this , that many among them call for bishopping or confirmation againe . . how is it that you once baptized them church-members and within the covenant , and so baptized them but for the foresaid want ? how is it now ( ) you teach , exhort , rebuke , comfort them , and you have no pastorall call to them more then to pagans ? ( ) how , or what calling , or what sort of officers are your pastors to them ? or who called you to take care and watch for their souls who are without , and to you as pagans ? ( ) how can you offer christ all the day long to pagans ? . if they refuse to hear the gospel , you cannot judge them , for they are without , cor. . . to you ; and christian magistrates cannot compell them that are without to the means of grace by your way . the second case is . when the apostles came with the gospel to the gentiles , act. . , . to lystra and derbe , act. . , . to philippi , act. . . to corinth , act. . , , , . to ephesus , act. . , . &c. our brethren must prove , . that the apostles first teached to them as no officers , having no pastorall care of their souls , untill they were in the judgement of charity reall converts , and then they preached to them as church-members : ( ) and untill they were satisfied in conscience of the good spirituall estate one of another , as lively stones to be laid upon the spirituall building , as their way teacheth ; and untill they in their practise and profession ( if we look sayeth m. hooker ) in their course according to what we see by experience , or receive by report and testimony from others . or lastly , look we at their expressions , favour so much as though they had been with jesus . and . the apostles knew not any such thing in visible ●converts , as that they should form themselves from an intrinsecall power in themselves into an organicall body and ordaine their own elders ; for to draw this out of any thing we find in scripture is done with as great difficulty , as to extract water out of a stone ; all we find the apostles did was to preach christ to them , and an interval of time , as is clear after act. . they had preached the gospel , act. . . ver . . they returned to lystra , and to iconium , and to antioch ; and ver . . and ordained elders in every church : all which times it appeareth they were visible churches without seales , and when they preached the gospel to the aged , and it was received by a profession of faith sincere , whether really or supposed only , presently without delay ( as is well observed by m. r. baxter in his accurate treatise ) they baptize magus , act. . . . such as hear the word , among whom were ananias and saphira , who were baptized members , act. . , . compared with act. . , . and act. . , , , . &c. they baptize cornilius and his house , act. . , , . when the corinthians and crispus and his house believed , they were baptized , and the jayler and his house , act. . , , , . lydia and her house , ver . . . and the eunuch having heard the word and believing was baptized , act. . , , . when the multitude hear iohn and confesse their sinnes they are baptized , mark . . and that without any such conjectures of the congregationall way of trying members , as is above said . the third case is , when the christian church is framed out of the visible church ; and in this i propound these considerations ( ) act. . there is no such processe as m. h. talks of , pag. . . ( ) no hint of a covenant to a single congregation , except ye speak of a baptismall covenant . ( ) the apostles shall not act as apostles , but in an erring way , choosing ananias and saphira reprobate mettall in this first temple , and say , that they acted as pastors ordinary in a church way and fallibly , it is not to be supposed , that they more de facte actually erred , and that they thrust in chalke stone , and rotten timber , apt to destroy the whole building , such as were ananias and saphira , in the first samplar , then they erred in making heterodox and erroneous acts , act. . in their first samplar of synods , and yet we prove they acted not as infallible apostles in that synod , but by a fallible and ordinary gift , yet so that de facto actually they erred not . ( ) any man judge of m. hookers words pag. . that peter required of these . to repent and be baptized , according to the like call of christ , and that philip saw the like in magus , ere he baptized him , and that the apostles had a large measure of spirituall discerning ; but if their discerning was put out in admitting none but such as they judged to be reall converts , it failed in this , and they laid hands suddenly in few hours space upon ananias and saphira : and so did iohn baptist upon an huge multitude , matth. mark. . luk. . nay their admitting of such , whereas their eminency of discerning could have framed the first samplar of church-constitution without one hypocrite , sayeth to me . that it is the revealed will and intent of the lord , that men usurp not the chairs of christ to passe a sentence upon the inward state of church-members , before they be admitted into his work-house of conversion . yea it is destructive to the lords end to close the gates upon many heirs of glory , and lock fast the doores of christs office-house , his vineyard , his kingdome , his house , upon multitudes to be saved and wrought upon and espoused to christ , after they are unchurched , untill they be visible converts , cor. . , , , . gal. . . ( ) the apostles are accurate in trying of some church-members , to wit , of elders and deacons , and bid receive some , and reject others , act. . . act. . , . tim. . , , , . &c. , , . tit. . , , . tim. . . tim. . , . but shew us rule , canon , precept , practise of apostles , for judiciall electing of church-members ; yea to me it is one act of the lords deep providence in the execution of his decrees of election and reprobation ; for when the lord sends the word of his kingdome to a nation , and calls them , and they professe to hear , there hath the lord a visible kingdome , and the lord builds his house , not moses , not paul. ( ) the place act. . pleads more for a reall and internall repentance , and continued and prorogated all their life , ver . , . they abiding in the apostles doctrine and fellowship stedfastly , . then for a visible repentance in the judgement of charity , though we exclude not visible repenting of some , but in our brethrens sense , visible repenting , i. e. reall and sincere , so farre as the judgement of charity can reach . . reall and sincere repenting of all and every one . . antecedently and before admission to church-membership , we ever exclude , and we say there is not one jot● in the word , that the apostles had such a judgement of ananias , magus ; and our brethren cannot prove it . the believing of magus and his a●dent continuing with philip , act. . . with eagernesse , as dogs in hunting to follow the prey , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beza cites mar. . . budaeus to stick to any as an assiduous convey , proveth not what m. lock ●r sayeth ; for luke inspired by the holy ghost , who needeth not borrow the judgement of charity , but seeth the heart , testifieth of magus that he believed in his way . all our divines , calvin , gualther , piscator , marlorat , beza , brentius , bullingerus , pomeranus , sarc●rius , diodati , english divines , say , it was but an historicall and temporary faith ; if the holy ghosts meaning were that magus did savingly believe , we shall not eschew the apostasy of true believers . the text saith not that magus savingly believed to the judgement of philip , and the church of samaria ; they saw his faith as they saw his wondring in his cleaving to philip , and yet this our brethren must prove . now they saw only such a faith , in the effects , as the text speaks of ; but the text speaks of a temporary faith : but that they believed the sorcerers temporary faith to be saving faith , and would not otherwayes have baptized him , that m. hooker and m. lockyer conjecture ; but in the text , there is no shadow of such a thing ; had there been praying with liberty , and in the holy ghosts strong perswasion , much labour of glorying in tribulation , rejoycing with joy unspeakable , by selling all and following the gospel , something had been said , and if the church had refused without these to baptize him . ( ) i retort the argument thus . such should be the members of the visible church before they be admitted , as peter requireth the thousands to be before they were admitted members : but peter requireth of the . reall repentance ; repent and be baptized , &c. yea such repentance as thereby their anxious conscience might be satisfied , who asked , men and brethren what shall we doe ? ah , we slew the lord of glory . ergo , the members of our church must have reall , not visible repentance only , before the church can admit them . but the conclusion is absurd even to the anabaptists . the proposition is m. hookers and our brethrens in terminis ; the assumption is the holy ghosts , act. . yea and the characters of reall conversion , act. . are spoken by luke inspired of god , not in relation to the fallible discerning of apostles . there are not only visible signs , but . hearing , . saying , men and brethren what shall we doe ? . joyning in ordinances with the apostles , . some expressing of joy in hearing the word , possibly in their countenance . the rest were reall , . they were pricked in heart , not visibly , but really , so calvin , bez● , gualther , sarcerius , brentius , bullingerus ; as also before them , chrysostome , hieronymus , cyrillus , hierosolomytanus ; this cannot but be reall . ( ) they were added unto the church . m. h. granteth , that the holy ghost in luke spoke this . now the apostles acting as ordinary pastors in a fallible way ( as our brethren say they acted here ) could not see this internall adding made by the lord , ver . . the lord added to the church , &c. he added not ananias and saphira thus ; and their receiving the word with gladnesse of heart , ver . . must be reall and internall gladnesse of heart , as their eating of bread with gladnesse and singlenesse of heart ; all which as they were not visible to the apostles , so being reall must be ascribed by an ordinary figure , to the greatest part . now that ananias and saphira were such reall members pricked in heart , or received the word with joy , luke sayeth not . but m. h sayeth it without warrant of the word . chap. xv. other arguments of m. h. and his answers are considered ; as of the draw-net . mr. h. pag. , . to arg . . if the visible church be a draw-net , where are fish and filth ; a house where are vessels of gold , and baser vessels of wood and brasse ; then a rightly constituted church there may be where are believers and hypocrites . ans. the argument is wholly yeilded , and the cause not touched , much lesse concluded , as may appeare by the state of the question in a right meaning . ans. . this argument may be wholely yielded , but is not my argument ; i referre the reader to the place of my book where this is first propounded . the argument is much mistaken , and is not drawen from visible churches , as they are de facto , and through abuse , though i speak to that also , which i am willing to dispute with any who will defend m. h. in his survey . my argument is from visible churches as they were at first planted and constituted lawfully , and to all that read with any considerable attention , planted according , not to the permissive decree of god , according to which i tell m. barrow , many hypocrites are de facto in the visible church lawfully constitute ; but according to the revealed will of precept . hence take the argument according to my mind ; if the visible kingdome and church of christ at both its first planting in fieri , and it s after constitution in facto esse , consist not according to the decree , but even according to the revealed and approving and commanding will of god , of good fish and of bad , and filth ; and of vessels of honour and of dishonour : then the visible church consisteth not of such saints only as must be reall converts in the judgement of charity . but the former is true , m. h. might have known that i of purpose closed up this mouse-hole , non semel , not once , but twenty times ; the proposition is from the scope of the parable , which , as worthy calvin sayeth , that nikil novum &c. that our saviour teacheth no new thing , but by a new similitude , the same which he taught in the parable of the tares , only as mr. dickson hath judiciously observed . that hence the visible church in the way of gathering members , and manner of constitution thereof is like a draw-net , taking in a i who professe subjection to christ in his ordinances good and bad . to which as for the purpose , it is also most false , that the lord tacitly commands such pastors as cast out the net of the preached gospell , to fish no souls in a pastorall church-way , but these who in their judgement of charity , savour of being with iesus ( as sayeth m. h. survey par . . c. . pag. , ) and so are good fish and reall converts . whereas the lord commands pastors not to look whether they be converted or not in their judgement ; leave that to god , and call in as many as ye find , matth. . . luk. . , , . call in fools and simple ones , prov. . . which indeed to m. hooker is a sinne and a prophaning of the holy things of god. o saith m. h. beware ye pastorally call any , or preach to any pastorally but such as in charity you judge converts ; and these only and none other , sayeth m. l●ckyer . as for the parable of the tares , let them grow untill harvest . par●us ( most judiciously ) he forbids not to use discipline simply , but use it not so , with such rigor , or imprudently , when the wheat is in hazard to be plucked up , but use it not when the wheat may be hurted and rooted out . . the conceit of degenerated members to be tolerated for a while , will not help the matter ; for the draw-net of the preached gospel is to be cast out at the first admission of members , before the members be degenerated . . how shall our brethren make it out that the bad noteth the latent hypocrites only , that are not seen , because they are under the water ? but the bad noteth aswell the open hypocrites : and so did the donatists answer augustine , as our brethren doe ; but augustine replyed that the church is the barne-floore where the wheat is hid and the chaffe seen . but , sure , the preachers are not to be led by their own judgement , who are really good , or really non converts and bad : for it is the command of christ , that the bad , that is the non-converted be brought in , that they may be converted and keeped in ( except the whole lump be in danger to be infected ) that they may be made good . mr. h. p. . the like may be said to the man who came without the wedding garment , he carried it so cunningly that none perceived it but the master . ans. mr. h. must say , the servants judged him once to have a wedding garment , else they should not have invited him to come . saith the text that , or mr. h. onely ? if the former , then they sin who invite , and call externally any but such as have a wedding garment : so the donatists said . . mr. h. contradicts his own book of discipline expresly . the rest of my arguments are above vindicated . mr. h. p. . the examples of solomon tolerating idolatry , of asa breaking out into persecution , hurt mr. r. cause , for then the openly scandalous may be received in . ans. these kings obstinately persisting in such evils , are neither to be admitted , nor kept in : how far solomon strayed is hard to determine . amesius , after p. martyr , teacheth , that he neither worshipped images , nor believed them to be god , nor brought them to the temple . augustine excuseth him , that he fell as adam , to please his wives . asa at his worst was fitter to be admitted a member , than magus at his best ; nor can the time of asa his continuing obstinately in these evils , be well known . m. h. m. ruthurfurd maintain● , that such as are admitted must . not be scandalous : . must be baptized after the order of christ : . they must , by their profession , notifie that they are true believers . ans. how they are not scandalous , how baptized in christs order , and so must repent for their own personal comfort and salvation , is to be tried : ergo , they must be to us real converts before they be admitted , is a feeble consequence . the third i never require before they be admitted members : m. cannot reade that in my writings , but forged it of his own , as is answered by me . mr. h. p. , . if i must not enter willingly into any unnecessary civil society , with such as have a shew of godliness , and deny the power thereof , and such as are named brethren , but are idolatrous ; far less should i enter into a spiritual society of faith with them . ans. what this reasoning meaneth , i know not . but . it is unlawful to you to enter your self a visible married member of that church , where one is to be admitted who is known to be a scandalous hypocrite , as he is described tim. , , . yea , suppose in all churches you finde some scandalous , you are to joyn to some visible church on earth . but this is . unlawful : for say that one would refuse to marry any at all , because no woman on earth could satisfie his minde , hardly could that single life be lawful , if god give not the gift of continency . but say it were lawful to live single , and to marry none , because of such humorous impediments , yet it cannot be lawful to live out of all church-fellowship , without all church-ordinances , suppose you were in an island where one onely church is . . suppose one be married , and fixedly joyned to such a congregation , and divers members turn like the members of the church of sardis , divers become such as are tim. . . lovers of their own selves , covetous , boasters , proud , blasphemers , disobedient to parents , &c. the apostle saith , we are to turn away from such : now the elders and flock refuse to c●… them out . if that turning away tim. . be meant of separating from the church , we must not turn away from them , except the church to which we were married give us leave , which were strange . and it is like this is not mr. hookers sense ; for he maketh it less free to turn away from a church to which you are married , than not to joyn to it ; as it is less free to the man to leave the wise to whom he is once married , than not to marry : and so he makes the church a prison . as for the place cor. . he forbids intire conversing with the excommunicate ; bullinger , he forbiddeth intimate fellowship with them . mayer saith , it is the arguing of anabaptists ( which yet pious mr. h. here followeth ) we should not eat with them : ergo , we should not joyn in church duties with them . but augustine citeth cyprian , because we see tares in the church , yet let us not separate from the church ; for , saith augustine , when the godly and the wicked partake of the same sacrament , neither the cause nor the person is hurt . entring in church-fellowship , some one or other , though there be some scandalous persons tolerated and desended in all the churches , is not voluntary , as to marry or not to marry , but a necessary ordinance of god : for he lives as a heathen , in a condition of sinning , who is a member of no visible church . mr. h. these are not sufficient requisites in one to be a member , which may be in a drunkard , who is not to be a member , but to be cast out ; ergo , to be kept out . but these three assigned by mr. r. . to profess the faith. . eagerly to desire the seals . . to desire church-fellowship , counting it a disparagement not to be born again , if not admitted to the sacraments , may agree to a drunkard . ans. for the ordinary drunkard , he is either born and baptized in the church , or he is a pagan and an ordinary drunkard having these three . if the former be said , he is born a member of the church , and so the question is concerning his casting out , not concerning his receiving in . i confess , i know not how mr. h. could answer the question himself , concerning children born in their church of parents , father , mother , that are church members , though such live or years never baptized , and have these three requisites , and be free of gross scandals , they could not admit such to the lords supper . the ministers should have some extraordinary call of god to preach to such , as paul had to go to preach in macedonia , act. . for by our brethrens way they have no right , by way of covenant , from the parents , but onely a providential right to preach the gospel , which requires an extraordinary apostolick cast . as for the other , if the man be a born heathen , and shall come to get these three requisites , and profess as magus did , he is to be received a member : but if he hath not these three requisites , for he lives in sorcery , as magus and elymas , and opposeth the gospel , the openly lying profession is scandalous ; such a profession mr. r. faith is not his requisites : if he be a pagan , and continue in habitual drunkenness , he may be holden out while he gives evidences to others of amendment , and then he may be admitted to the outer court , as a heater ; though a profession of faith , if not belied with worshipping of false gods , can hardly consist with paganism . chap. xvi . of the principal and prime subject of all the priviledges of special note bestowed in the mediator christ upon the church . mr. h. p. . cap. . pag. . . whether the invisible church be the principal , prime ; and onely subject of the seals of the covenant , pa. . ans. it is not such a subject by any argument that mr. r. brings : but mr. h. frameth a question of straw , as if i had moved it , and disputes against mr. r. my words are : the invisible , not the visible church , is the principal , prime , and onely subject with whom the covenant of grace is made , to whom all the promises do belong , and to whom all titles , styles , properties and priviledges of special note in the mediator de belong , p. . the promises are preached to the whole visible church , but for the elects sake ; yet they belong , in gods intention and gracious purpose , onely to the elect of god , and his redeemed ones , to that invisible body , spouse , sister , whereof christ alone is lord , he●d , husband . i wonder then , if mr. h. did reade my book , when he will dispute such a question with me . . whether the invisible church , and the el●ct , be the prime subject of the seals ? a question that hath no sense , nor any favour from mr. r. for can the elect , of which , some are not born , eat and drink at the lords supper , or be washed with water ? . the lord hath ordained the seals in an orderly way , and in an ecclesiastick and church right to the visible church , as to the fi●st , prime , and onely subject external , visible , in foro ecclesiae , and according to the command of god to pastors , they are to be dispensed to all members of the visible church , to magus as to peter , whether the dispensers or church repute them real converts , or not . . here the seals , ministers , word , promises , are considered onely in the sign , letter , external administration by the dispensers , who see not the heart . now mr. h. proceedeth against me , arg. . pag. . to prove that , to wit , that bare and naked seals , as circumcision , are bestowed upon graceless men , ishmael and esau : which is to set up an adversary of hay ; for i am not the man who either dreamed or wrote , that the invisible church is the principal , prime , and onely subject of the naked signs bestowed upon ishmael and magus : this will be found the minde of mr. hock●r ; for i spake expresly of the priviledges of special note in the mediator , pag. . but the bare and empty seals , the promises as in the letter preached , and as precisely considered and separated from the grace promised and signed , are not priviledges of special note given in the mediator , for they are priviledges bestowed upon cain and magus , as upon real believers , peter and iohn , the very same way . . but the lord hath ordained promises , sealt , and the like , including the inward grace , christ , righteousness , pardon , perseverance , eternal life , in his gracious purpose , as i say , pag. . to the invisible and effectually called church , as to the principal , prime , native , internal subject , a right not onely ecclesiastick in foro ecclesiae , which they have also , professing the sound faith , but also with a real and internal right in foro dei , upon these arguments , never touched nor answered by mr. hooker . . these are the first and proper subject of all promises . properties , priviledges , seals of special note in the mediator ( taking the priviledges and sea's as they include christ , and the graces promised and sealed ) to whom the covenant , and special promises of a new heart , the law engraven , perseverance are onely promised , and to none other , but these , a new heart , perseverance , &c. are onely promised to elect believers , ierem. . , . & . , . ezek. . , . & . , , . isa. . , , . deut. . . heb. . , , , &c. if these be promised to cain , magus , then either absolutely , and so all shall have a new heart , contrary to scripture and experience ; if conditionally , shew the condition to be performed by the elect , which being done , they shall be therewith gifted : such a condition is not in the word ; for the condition should be either of nature , or common grace , and both must be pelagianism : for if of grace , the question must recurte , what shall be the condition again ? . these for whom , and for whose salvation god intends the sweet marrow of the ministery , and other ordinance● , the meeting in the unity of faith , and the knowledge of the son of god , ephes. . , , . to whom they all belong , cor. . . and for whose sake all are , cor. . . and for whose salvation onely christ came and died , matth. . . luke , . tim. . . pet. . . ioh. . . must be the prime and onely subject of all these priviledges in their marrow and substance . . these to whom christ is given onely , and with him all other things , must be the prime and onely subject , to whom all priviledges of special note in the mediator are given ; or then the visible church , or some other than the elect and ransomed of the lord , must be the principal and onely subject : but he hath given us christ , and with him all other things , rom. . . and mr. h. cannot say , that to that visible body , as visible , in which magus , cain , are joynt members , having as good ecclesiastical right as the apostle peter , by mr. h. way , are given all things , christ , saving grace out of his fulness , &c. as to the first and prime subject . . christ is head by the influence of saving grace , king , husband , saviour , ransomer , surety , high-priest of the really believing church : if he give any priviledges , then who shall be the first , prime and onely subject of graces flowing from him , but his liege-people , spouse , ransomed ones ? . the elect justified , are onely the sons of the promises , rom. . , . and are internally , and not externally onely , as magus , in covenant with god , and internally called . mr. h. the catholick church invisible is not the prime and onely subject of the seals , as the meaning of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to mr. r. though the exposition of the rule be neither safe nor sound , quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ans. taking the seals for bare and naked signs bestowed upon magus , which is mr. h. minde , he disputes against himself , not against me . . the axiome , what agreeth essentially , and per se , in secundo modo per se , ( as aptitude to discourse , or also to laugh , agreeth to man ) does both agree universally to all men , and reciprocally ; for every man is apt to laugh , and every thing apt to laugh is a man : so the invisible church is that company to whom all saving priviledges belong , effectual calling , redemption , justification , the promises of a new heart , of perseverance , the seals including covenant-grace ; and reciprocally the same company to whom all these priviledges belong , is the invisible , mystical , living church , and not the company visible of which magus is a member . is this axiome neither safe not sound ? mr. h. should shew wherein it is faulty , and not pass with disdain the rule as neither safe nor sound . it is defended as a truth of aristotle by christian philosophers . what agreeth in any thing 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( which aristotle saith are the same in secundo modo per se ) agreeth to all , and to every one , and to such onely . so the first modus per se is when the praedicate belongs to the essence of the subject ; so aristotle taught me long ago . so collegium conimb●icense , ant : ruvio , murcia de lallana , smyglezius , toletus , and many ; yea , all who comment upon aristotle . and the secundo modo per se , is when the subject belongs to the definition of the attribute ; as a man is apt to laugh , to weep , to admire , and reciprocally ; yea , and what agrees to any , according to its specifick nature , and last essential difference , agrees reciprocally : and to this old logick i stand , it is not new . mr. h. pa. . mr. r. proveth , that the visible church , as such , hath not right to the seals , but the invisible . these onely who are within the covenant have right to the seals ; so peter proves infant-baptism , acts . . but onely the invisible church hath right to the covenant . ans. peter , acts . speaks of persons externally within the covenant , who by profession engage themselves to walk in the ways of god , though they have not , for the present , the sound work of faith in their hearts , and it may be shall never have it . now that the visible and intelligible being in covenant , must be understood acts . is clear , else the counsel of peter to be baptized , had been null ; for invisible christians onely have right to the seals , ( they might reply ) but whether we be such , we for the present do not know , and it is certain , and you can neither see nor know the invisible work of grace : it is believed by faith , not known . ans. an errour in the first concoction spoileth all : i speak of an internal right in foro d●i , and this way onely real and invisible believers have internal right to the covenant and seals , including the blessings and graces rem significatam ; otherwise , naked seals , of which mr. h. speaketh , are not special priviledges in the mediator , for they are ( himself granting ) bestowed upon base hypocrites : so the right internal to the seals , and christ in them , and to the covenant and new heart , is the priviledge of special note , whith onely the invisible and really believing church hath ; mr. hookers saints , magus and iudas have no such priviledges . . the answer of peter , acts . is indeed of a being in covenant visibly , and that being is not excluded , but it is rather and more principally to be expounded of real and internal being in covenant , repent , and be baptized every one of you , for the promise is made to you and to your children ; that is , ye are within the covenant . now peters answer is a strengthning and comforting answer : for the doubt of their cast-down conscience is , ah! we murthered the lord of life , then must we be rejected of god , we know not what to do ! peter had returned but a comfortless answer , to say , but be of good chear , the promise is onely to you and to your children ; that is , ye are onely visibly in covenant : they might say , so is magus . i grant it is a ground of comfort , psal. . , . exod. . . deut. . , , . but it was not so healing an answer to their question , which was not , men and brethren ; what shall we do to get in to be members of the visible church ? what better had they been in a place where ananias and magus had as deep a share of the comfort as they ; and which having , they might eternally perish ? but their question was , men and brethren , what shall we do to be saved eternally , and to be members of the invisible church ? peter answereth , there is a covenant made in the holy minde of god really with you jews , and your children , and to all that are afar off , with the seed of jews and gentiles ; and so he must have among you a company ordained to life , and internally in covenant : so calvin , gualther , bullinger , marlorat , beza , brentius . his meaning is not that they were all the same way within the covenant , and the promise made one and the same way ; some were actually and really , and so invisible in it ; some visible , and in profession ; some as fathers , some as children and parts of their fathers . ( . ) he cannot speak onely of the visible covenant , but of their being invisible in it ; he bids them repent really , not visibly onely , as magus did , and heals their anxious conscience , by this repenting really , for that end that their doubting may be removed ; not that the holy ghost bid● any within the visible church repent onely professedly , and onely externally , but the command of repenting , as born in upon the chosen , carries with it the lords intention often , and his decree to save , and their being internally in covenant , as here it doth . . i shall desire mr. hooker to be true to his own distinction . if being externally in covenant make a church-member , as he expounds acts . then all to whom the lord saith , i am your god , and to whom the covenant is externally preached , and they by silence hear and accept of it , are to mr. h. church-members ; then all israel whom moses preached to be blinde , hardned , deut. . . rebellious and stiff-necked , deut. . . who had tempted him in the wilderness fourty years , and when they had entred in a church . covenant with god , deut. . . as our brethren expound it , they were to moses , to ioshua , and to all the godly , and to one another , real converts , savouring as if they had been with christ , and practically reformed . o what strange charity , when moses and the prophets preached , they confess , the world knew their life declare the contrary . . why should mr. h ▪ deny but the three thousand who heard with gladness , received the word with joy , were real converts , by a frequent figure , the part for the whole , because the most part were real converts ? yea. mr. h. will have ananias , sapphira , and all of them in the judgement of charity to be real saints : but when the scripture calls israel these whom saul and david were to feed and rule , sam. . . kings . . chron. . . even all the murmurers and ●●bels whom the lord brought out of egypt , deut. . . exod. . . his covenanted people , will not mr. h. give us the favour of a figurative speech , a part for the whole ? . or then ( which is strange ) all egypt , assyria , isa. . . all nations , isa. . , . all the kindreds of the earth , psal. . . of the world , rev. . . must be in the judgement of charity to one another real converts . . could not the lord call them , and make a church of them , and say , i am your god , and they , we are thy people , while first the pastors and the church passed their judgement of charity upon their real conversion ? . mr. h. passeth over all the texts cited by me , which conclude onely the invisible church to be really within the covenant ; see them above : and contendeth , that the visible church onely , which is of these who never had , and it may be shall never have any sound work of faith in their hearts , pag. . the onely prime subject of those special priviledges in christ. . so the reason is null , if this be the onely visible being in covenant , which is act. . . it concludes not : mr. r. said the contrary , both visible and invisible being in covenant , must be understood act. . as also invisible grace is believed in it self , therefore it is not known in its effects ; it follows not , the invisible and really believing church , is not visible in the effects to men : isa. . . their seed shall be known among the gentiles , and their off-spring among the people ; all that see them shall acknowledge them , that they are the seed that the lord hath blessed . isa. . . and they shall call them the holy people , the redeemed of the lord , and thou shalt be called , sought out , a city not forsaken . mr. h. p. . that onely the invisible church hath right to the seals , draws many absurdities : the adversaries of grace will hardly be gained . ans. true : if you mean external signs and ecclesiastick right ; if all israel be in the judgement of charity within the covenant , we must indeed believe visible murmurers , idolaters , fornicators , backsliders , worshippers of heathen gods , cor. . , , . exod. . , . psal. . , , , . such as slew their sons and their daughters to molech , openly under every green tree , psal. . , , , , . ier. . , . hos . . ier. . , . isa. . , , . ezek. . , , , . to be real converts , and all and many other absurdities follow . . we must believe , that all the visible church have saving grace ; ergo , we must believe that god hath chosen to life all the independent churches on earth . . that god intends salvation , and pardon , and perseverance to all and every one of them of the visible israel , and that to be false , rom. . . they are not all israel which are of israel . mr. h. p. . mr. r. compasseth us about with a crowd of accusations of the grossest arminian , popish , socinian doctrines . ans. why did ye not clear your selves of conspiring with papists , in denying the preaching of the word to be an essential note of the visible church , and in other points also ? . of conspiring with socinians , in setting up independent congregations . . denying the power of synods . . the necessity of ordination by laying on of the hands of the elders , &c. to such you say not any thing , in leaving the reformed churches , and joyning with these enemies of the truth ; but of this hereafter : you have yet place to dismiss the crowd . mr. h. p. . let mr. r. help us to answer the anabaptists upon his grounds . mr. h. those that i cannot know have any right to the seals , to them i cannot give the seals in any faith : but i cannot know that infants are of the invisible church , which onely gives them right to the seals . if mr. r. grant the proposition , that they give the seals to such whom they know not to have any right , they triumph . ans. no anabaptist can object to me . that to be of the invisible church onely giveth right ecclesiastick to the outward seals , which magus receiveth , mr. h. calleth the dispensing of the outward seals a special priviledge , but such as magus hath no special or saving priviledge . . it passeth the wit of man to defend independents against anabaptists : for . the anabaptists and independents both agree in the same constitution of visible churches , that they must be real converts , as far as we can judge : but that we can judge of no infants born of believing parents , except we pluck out the eyes of charity , and believe that cain , ishmael , esa● , and all and every one born within the visible church , are born converts , is impossible . hence mr. h. those that i cannot know have any right to the seals , to these i cannot give the seals of the covenant in faith , as the apostle calls faith . so mr. h. but i cannot know that all the infants of believers have right to the seals , because their parents are visible saints , some of them elect , some of them reprobate : except i . put the seal of god upon a blank , contrary to our brethrens doctrine . . except i profane the holy things of god , and admit heathens to the church of visible saints . let mr. h. answer the anabaptists . mr. h. mr. r. helps the minor with a distinction so , faith in christ truly giveth right to the seals of the covenant , and that in gods intention and decree , called voluntas beneplaciti , but the orderly way of the churches giving the seals , is , because such a society is a professing and visible church , and the orderly giving of the seals according to gods approving will , called voluntas signi & revelata , belongs to the visible church . mr. h. answers , this salve is too narrow for the sore , for the distinction will either make god order the giving of the seals to such who have no right , and so impeach his wisdom , to appoint the giving of the seals to such to whom he gives no right to receive them : or else it doth involve a contradiction and the several expressions contain apparent contradictions ; for this voluntas signi which allows the visible church to give the seals , it tither gives another right , besides that which the invisible members have , or else it gives no right : if it give another right , then the invisible church hath not onely right , which is here affirmed ; if it give no right , then the visible church doth give the seals orderly to such who have no right to them . i confess , such is my feebleness , that i see not how this can be avoided . how have hypocritical professors right to the seals ? not as members visible : for mr. r. saith , p. . the visible church , as the visible church , hath no right unto the seals ; as invisible they can give none , for they have none to give . ans. were it not conscience to the truth , i would be silent of the infirmity of this pious man. . it is a good salve : for it becometh not mr. h. with arminians and socinians to impeach the wisdom of the holy one , because he appoints the giving of the seals , baptism to iudas and to magus , who have no right true and real in foro dei , in the decree of god , and in his holy intention , as i spake p. , . to the seals , and the grace sealed ; nor to the engraven law , and gods teaching of the heart , and to perseverance ; and i cite pag. . ier. . , . & . . and pag. , . par . . psal. , , , , . isa. . . all which places mr. h never looked on the face , but suppressed them all . then let mr. h. clear the wisdom of god in appointing a ministerial and pastoral offer of covenant-mercies , christ , pardon , the anointing , the new heart , life eternal , to be made to such as magus , and iudas the traytor . . whereas he saith , the distinction of voluntas beneplaciti , and voluntas approbans , contains apparent contradictions . it seems he never heard of this distinction allowed by the reformed churches ; and that he joyns with the arminians , who teach , that this distinction placeth in god two contrary wills ; and that he wills and decrees one thing from eternity , and commands and approves the contrary to his creatures : hence there must be guile and dissimulation , and no serious dealing in the lords commands , saith arminius , corvinus , and the arminians at the conference at hague , and the synod of dort. . hence it is , that mr. h. will have the same very right given by the approved will of god to members , that is given by the decree . just as vorstius will have the promises and threatnings every way conform to the decree : and he and all the arminians say , we may make them often contrary to the decree , and make the holy lord to deal doubly , and to will one thing within himself , and command the contrary . so mr. h. saith , we make gods command to give one right external to the seals , and his decree the contrary , or no right at all to some hypocrites . but we answer to both : god by his decree ordains what shall come to pass or not come to pass , or what shall fall out or not fall out , be it good in his effective decree , or be it evil in his permissive decree : for all things were written in his book , when as yet they were not , even all davids members , ps. . . eph. . . but god by his approving will does not decree what shall come to pass or not come to pass , but onely commands what is good , and promises rewards accordingly , and forbids what is evil , and threatneth punishment , whether the good or the evil come to pass , or never come to pass ; he commands iudas to believe , and cain , and pharaoh , that is , he approves of their faith as good obedience , and agreeable to his law , and yet their obedience never falls out , nor did the lord ever decree they should obey : for what god decree● shall be , must be ; but what he commands does not ever fall out : so the lord forbids the killing of christ , exod. . . that is , he declareth that he nilleth , disapproveth , and hateth the slaying of the lord of life ; and yet the killing of christ falls out , a●d was decreed to come to pass by the permission of god , acts . . & . . here is no shadow of contradiction here . again , god giveth a right to the seals to hypocrites ; that is , he commandeth the church to give the seals to magus , whether such really or hypocritically believe , this is a right not properly inherent in visible members , for their profession , yea , or their supposed conversion . . because all saving and real right to ordinances is relative to election to glory , and flows from the merit of christs death ; but visible professors , as such , of whose society magus and iudas are , have not any saving and real right , as chosen and redeemed in christ , by grant of our brethren . . a right flowing onely from an external profession , and from composed hypocrisie in magus , is no true right ; a lie cannot give a true right , i offend that mr. h. so anxiously contends for a charter to such bastards as magus . . it is a favour to hear the gospel , and partake of the seals ; and ius activum , an active right the church and ministers have to call and admit to the seals all who profess as magus , that the elect in the visible church may be converted , but it is not a right propriè dictum ne quidem ecclesiasticum , that they have who are such hypocrites as iudas and magus ; for the command and revealed will of god most unproperly is said to give m●gus a right to the seals : except mr. h. never divine so spake ; the command reveals the right , but gives none . as also the right of visible professors is ius passivum , and a conditional and passive right ; for magus and iudas have no right to be visible members , or to partake of the seals , yea or to profess the covenant and name of god , psal. . . but upon condition of faith : for god cannot command sin and an hypocritical profession : yea , he forbids treading in his courts , isa. . , . except they repent and believe , ver . , . therefore magus sins in professing , and in being baptized , he remaining rotten : but the church sins not , but does the command of christ in calling , inviting all that profess , whether they be really , or in the judgement of charity , converts or no. which distinction not being observed , our brethren and mr. h. mistake the nature of an ecclesiastical right ; for the lord in the command gives to all visible professors , such as peter , who really believe , both the ecclesiastick and external right to the seals which he decreed to give them , and the same internal and real right which they have by faith , and no other than according to his eternal decree , they have given them in time by real believing . but for hypocrites , as magus , they have no right ecclesiastick to the seals , but a sort of active and permissive right , by which they claim room in the visible church , and the seals from the church . therefore taking the church visible as onely visible , as contra-distinguished from the invisible and really believing : and as visibility is common to both peter and magus , and their external profession obvious to the eye of man , so the visible church hath no right that is true and real to the seals : so i retort the argument upon mr. h. true real believers , as peter , and hypocrites , as magus , have either one and the same church-right to membership and seals , or another , and diverse . the same right they cannot have ; . because the right of truly and really believing ones , is according to the decree of election , such as the lord ordained to be purchased to them by the merits of christ , and also according to the lords revealed will. he who believes hath right to eat of the tree of life , and to membership and seals : but this right magus and hypocrites have not , for they have no part in christ. . the right that believers , as peter and iohn , have , is by fulfilling of the condition . he who believes , and loves to be reformed , hath right to the covenant , promises , to perseverance , to the anointing that teacheth all things . these are promised and decreed to them , ier. . , . & , , . isa. . , . & . , . compared with acts . , . ioh. . , , . & . . & . , . and to them onely , not to magus and to reprobates . . magus , and such like wooden and tree-legs , might claim the same life , living membership , lively and vital operations , and to have the anointing , and to be kept through faith unto salvation by the power of god , pet. . . and to have the fear of god put in their hearts , that they should not depart from god , as ier. . , . if they have the same right to membership and the seals in their substance and grace signified with sound believers . and this is most absurd . if hypocritical professors have another external and ecclesiastical right then real believers upon these grounds , it must be a false and a bastard charter , founded upon an hypocritical profession . let mr. h. shew how the right of visible professors who are real believers , and the right of painted and rotten professors , such as magus and the like have , is one univocally , and in nature the same right ; and yet mr. h. ( which darkeneth the reader ) puts them all in one , and would have christ the same way to be king , head , ( survey pag. . ) redeemer , who hath bought with his blood the elect , pag. , . and such rotten ones , as magus and iudas . . how a false and a true right can come from the same command of god , let mr. h. judge . lastly , it is poor to say , how come hypocritical professors to have right to the seals ? as visible members they have none , as invisible members they have none , for such they are not . ans. true , they are not ; but mr. h. gives them the same right with invisible members : quo jure let him shew . ergo , the church must give them no seals , or give them seals , when she cannot know they have any right , for indeed they have none that is true and real . ans. the church doth obey christ in giving them seals ; and it well follows , ergo , the church giveth them seals , when she cannot know they have any right , to wit , internal and real , which is a saving priviledge of special note in the mediator , to the seals including signes and the grace signified : for so onely they do belong in the lords intention and eternal decree to real believers , not to magus and iudas , except mr. h. will stand for arminian universal grace , and say that god intends the same saving grace in ordinances and seals to peter and iohn , and likewise to pharaoh and magus . chap. xvii . whether the visible church , as visible , can bear these styles of the body of christ , of the redeemed of god , the spouse of christ , &c. mr. h. saith , these things may well be given to the visible church . those over whom officers are set , to feed them by doctrine and discipline , must needs be the visible church : but these are the church , act. . . feed the flock , not of the elect onely , but of the whole visible church ; take heed to the whole flock of god , else if they were set over the elect onely , they might reply , lord , we cannot search into thy secrets , who are the elect and invisible saints , onely to feed them : where as the current and common sense of the scripture , is , taking redeemed and sanctified as visible , though not really such , the stream of the text runs pleasantly , feed all visibly redeemed . elect and reprobate : so they be redeemed in the judgement of charity . ans. . the church visible is taken two wayes . . in the latitude , as comprehending all professors , sound , as peter , or rotten , as magus ; all which have a sort of right to the seals , but divers wayes , as is said . . more restricted , as a church so and so visible , as the soundest part of real believers , comprehending in corinth onely such as are really justified , sanctified , &c. in the latter ●ense , the church visible and professing is one in the matter , all one with the church invisible , and soundly and sincerely professing , and peter is both a real believer , and visible and soundly professing believer . in the former sense , paul writing to corinth , to ephesus , cor . eph. . . rom. . . to the romans , calleth all the church visible there justified , or not justified , the church , to wit , the church visible . in the latter sense onely the so and so visible professors , sanctified , justified , are the onely really , soundly professing visible church , and the whole is named from the sounder part . in the latter sense , christ is head and husband of the visible church , consisting of onely real , sound , visible professors , and that not onely by the influence of politick guidance , but also by the influence of saving grace . but of this visible church mr. h. moves not the question , and therefore his arguments speed the worse . . the argument of the same strain is formed by the arminians , so , as many as are the really redeemed church ( say the arminians ) and , as many as are the church of god redeemed in the judgement of charity ( saith mr. h. ) the elders were to feed . but the elders were to feed the whole flock , elect and reprobate , real believers and hypocrites . but the proposition is denied , and how either the arminians or mr. h. prove the proposition , we see not : for redemption to be bought with the blood of god ; yea , to be chosen to life before the foundation of the world , which are proper to the invisible church onely , are attributed to the visible church of ephesus , eph. . . was it pauls minde that thanks should be given to god , because god hath chosen us all , and every one of the visible church ( here is universal predestination ) of ephesus before the foundation of the world to be really holy ( for of that holiness he speaks ) because from eternity god had in the judgement of charity chosen to life and holiness such as magus and iudas , and the grievous wolves in that church ? so must paul say , thess. . . we are bound to give thanks to god for you , all whom we feed , all to whom we write , real converts or hypocrites , that god hath , in the judgement of charity , chosen you all salvation through sanctification of the spirit , and bilief in the truth . . the proposition is false , that as many as in the judgement of charity were bought with the blood of god , as were to be fed with doctrine and discipline , and so with excommunication ; then were they to esteem all the grievous wolves that spared not the flock , but preached perverse things , acts . , . and all that had in such a manner fallen from their first love , and first works , yea all the apostates in the judgement of charity to be bought with the blood of god , and eternally chosen to life , and saved : for the officers were to feed all these with exhortations , threatnings , censures . now the latter is unsound . but . they were all recommended to the care of pastors , as dear bought . true : but not as if all were dear bought , the text saith not that . mr. h. no doubt , sinned with the arminians , in adding that to the text ; for a father departing may recommend his family of children and servants to a steward , because ( saith the father ) they are dear to me ; it will not follow that they are all dear to him as children . . feed the redeemed flock , not as known to you to be redeemed or predestinated to life , but as professors among whom are my ransomed ones . . the text runs in its stream most muddily , not pleasantly ; if the world , and the whole world , ioh. . . & . . ioh. . , . and the all , that christ died for , be the church of converts in charities judgement , behold , mr. h. turns the world , all the world , all the world for whom christ died , before they were born , and had being , into visible saints ; and when the lord saith , ephraim is his dear son , jer. . and israel a holy priesthood , a chosen generation , the currant and pleasant sense must be , all and every one in the ten tribes , and all israel are the lords dear children , and priests sanctified to offer themselves an holy living sacrifice to god , in the judgement each one of another , though there be to their knowledge many thousand visible idolaters , murtherers , &c. that are detestable to god , not dear to god , as every where the scripture teacheth . mr. h. p. . the visible church is called the body of christ , cor. . . . ans. the visible church in the sense of mr. h. as including magus , iudas , as such , is not christs body . . nothing is proved , except it be made out , that all and every one in corinth were lively members under the head christ , in the judgement of charity , otherwise it is a sinful addition to the text. mr. h. a church may be visibly in covenant , which hath not an infallible assistance , may erre in fundamentals , fall away , and not endure as the dayes of heaven , and so are his first and fifth arguments answered . ans. it is , i consess , soon done , if well . ans. it is true , if men entertain such things as they call truths , when they are but lies of arminians , it will be easie to wipe away all with a dry negoconclusionem . my first argument to prove that the invisible , and not the visible single congregation , is the principal , prime and onely proper subject of all the priviledges of special note given in the mediator christ , is par. . pag. , . because that is such a subject of all these priviledges , to which onely and principally the promises belong , that they are a seed enduring as the dayes of heaven , psa. . and can no more cease to be in gods covenant favour , than the ordinances of heaven can cease to be , jer. . , . then the mountains can depart , isa. . , &c. but the visible church of a congregation is not such , &c. judge reader of the answer . the fifth argument , because the invisible church of the elect is such as cannot erre in fundamentals , cannot fall from the rock , and not the visible church of the congregation , whereof seven may be a church , and six of them such materials as magus ; nor can such a congregation bear as the first , onely , and prime subject , these styles ( say i , pag. . ) that are proper onely to the elect , redeemed , and really sanctified church , the styles of christs sister , love , dove , spouse , mystical body of christ. mr. h. answers by yielding the assumption , a church may be visibly in covenant , may erre in fundamentals , may fall away . and this is mr. r. first and fifth arguments . hence if perseverance and never falling away , be a special priviledge given in the mediator christ , and it agree not to the congregational , the onely visible church , and if it agree not to all visible congregations , then is not the visible church the onely principal subject of such priviledges ; since the world was , no logick can say that a property can be denied of its first and onely subject , that is a man , and yet is not apt to laugh . . to be visibly in covenant , is not a priviledge of special note , that is , a saving priviledge , such as perseverance , to have the anointing , and a new heart : of which saving priviledges i spake all along , pag. , , , , , , , , &c. for to be visibly in covenant , agrees to magus , and to all rotten members ; but these saving priviledges of perseverance agree not to mr. h. his visible church , which may , and doth fall away , saith mr. h. judge then , if these two arguments be wiped away with a wet finger , as saith mr. hooker . mr. h. p. , . a church may be visibly red●emed by the blood of god , be called the body of christ , the sons and daughters of god , and yet not be really and inwardly such , which is his second argument . the third is answered already . ans. this is with a hop and a skip to take away arguments . . mr. h. should have done so much as repea●ed the argument . but to be really redeemed , to be the body of christ , to be really , to be , i say , in veritate rei , the sons and daughters of god , and not to be called so onely ( a generation of vipers call themselves , matth. . the holy seed ) are priviledges of special note in the mediator christ , as i spake pag. . and these priviledges agree not to the visible and nominal church , of which magus is a citizen , as to the principal , prime and onely subject , as mr. h. yieldeth ; and so yieldeth the argument . . a church may be both visibly the redeemed of god , and called , and be really the body of christ , and invisibly , be also the redeemed of god , by a figure , as touching the sound and real visible saints among them , but that destroys mr. h. his cause , who will have all and every one in the judgement of charity redeemed , even so many as are fed with word and censures . . mr. h. should have applied his answer to the arguments , but he saw it would not frame . i have done it . let the second thoughts of some help here . for mr. h. must apply his answers to the cited places : so ier. . . i will put my law in their inward parts , according to the judgement of charity ; and ier. . i will put my fear in their hearts , according to the judgement of charity . and when the lord saith , i was a husband to israel , that is , in the judgement of charity . isa. . he was stricken for the transgression of my people , that is , visible saints , and for magus , for my confederate people , in the judgement of charity . ah! ●ee not men dare to adde their after-birth inventions to the truth of god. therefore mr. h. addeth , pag. they who hold that a visible church is redeemed externally , cannot say by any good inference , that christ died for all such in gods intention , or that all such are chosen to glory , or that god intendeth to save all such . ars. this is said , not proved . if christ die for the whole world in the judgement of charity , he must intend and decree in the same judgement of charity to save them by his death , else he is conceived to die for them upon no intention at all . i judge christs dying for us essentially includes his intention to save , to deliver from the present evil world , gal. . . if therefore this charitable judgement of mr. h believed christ died for all the members of the church of ephesus ( suppose magus to be a baptized member ) he must in the same judgement believe that god intended to save magus : yea , and mr. h. must believe in charity , by his death he intends to save all and every one in the visible church , all the earth over , and so did choose to glorifie all the visible saints , and consequently all nations ; isa. . , . all aegypt , all assyria , isa. . . all the gentiles , isa. . , , , &c. all the kingdoms of the world , rev. . . for they are all the visible kingdoms and churches of christ ; and charity shall forbid to believe , that there be one reprobate in the visible churches , and shall necessitate mr. h. to believe that god intends salvation , and so chose to salvation every man and woman of them . but i shall not undertake to reconcile our brethrens charity and their faith , when the lord shall fulfil the prophesies , isa. . & , &c. and what reason is there , i pray you , to say , people are visibly redeemed , but not visibly chosen to glory ? for the act of redeeming is not christs visibly dying on the cross , for that redemption material was visibly to no generations before that crucifying of christ , or to us ; but it is the laying down of the ransom of that noble life for such a certain number of elect , not one moe , not one fewer than are written in the lambs book of life ( i am of that opinion , i hope , with our brethren ) and this is as much hid and invisible to man , until their godly walk make their redemption in its effects to be visible , as their eternal election to glory ; therefore i much wonder of mr. lockyers asserting from acts . ( but i hope my reverend brother mr. iames wood hath by this silenced him : for we look for onely silence from him , except some other lewd brotherly help ) that the proper and allowed matter of a visible church now in the dayes of the gospel , is persons truly converted , such as god who knoweth the hearts of all men can bear witness of , as indeed sealed by his holy spirit ; i say , this is the matter that we ought now to take to raise again the tabernacle of david , and none other , no not in a whole church , as for that , so far as very spiritual men can judge . it s a dreadful addition to the word . chap. xviii . answer to mr. hookers arguments , that the invisible church is not the first subject of the seals . me. h. ar. . if those who were graceless , and had no interest in christ , had yet a command from christ to receive the seals , had warrant from his word to require them ; then they had a right ( outward and visible in foro ecclesiae ) to partake of them : for there is no better right than gods command to enjoyn , and his word to warrant us to challenge any priviledge . but many graceless , who were no invisible members , ishmael , esau , and all the males were enjoyned to be circumcised , and all the houses of israel to eat the passover . ans. . what is in question is not proved , to wit , that the priviledges of special note in the mediator christ , i. e. saving priviledges , as mr. r. often teacheth , pag. , . belong not to the invisible church as to the proper and first subject . but mr. h. proves , that external signs , and external right to the seals , in foro ecclesiae , are bestowed upon rotten members , magus and others . . he ought to prove the visible church is the onely principal subject of the seals , as he elswhere asserts . but this argument proves it not . . he frames the argument of infants , who have right to be circumcised , who have no command of christ ( for infants are not capable of commands or threatnings ) and brings not instances of these come to age under the new testament . . a graceless man , as magus , hath thus far right to demand the seals , that he may say to the church , you sin in withholding the seals , and therefore i require you baptize me , as christ hath commanded you : but he cannot say , i have right even external to receive baptism , and i sin not in receiving it . and mr. h. argument to prove it is naught : why , saith he , graceless men have the command of god to challenge the seals ; magus hath the command of god to challenge , and to receive the lords supper . a command absolute he hath none : shew me such a command , magus , iudas , eat and drink at the lords supper , challenge , claim and receive baptism ; all israel eat the passover , be ye real believers or hypocrites , be ye self-triers , and prepared or not , be ye clean or unclean : i confess there were no better right to challenge the seals , than such a command , if any such were ; but if mr. h. or any of his reade such a command , i pray i may see , and reade also . but magus hath onely a conditional command , which gives him no true and real right , save onely conditionally , to wit , magus , receive the seals and the lords supper , so thou believe , and examine thy self ; if not , thou hast no right to the seals , but eatest and drinkest thine own damnation : and because these graceless men fulfil not the condition , and believe not , mr. h. his argument is wa●●ry ; they have right from the command of god , which is the b●… right : that is , they have no right at all from a conditional command , they not fulfilling the condition , but such right as robbers have to the travellers purse ; yea , they have no command of god , but the contrary a severe discharge , isa. . . bring no more vain oblations . matth. . . friend , how camest thou in hither , not having a wedding garment ? he that eateth and drinketh unworthily , eateth and drinketh damnation to himself , cor. . . mr. h. p. . iob and his godly friends were invisible members , but being strangers they are forbidden to eat the passover : ergo , the seals belong not to invisible members . ans. . the thing denied is not concluded . iob and his godly friends had the marrow of the seals , and wanted some external signs , which are not saving priviledges , as i alledge pag. . that iob was not circumcised , possibly is said , not proved by mr. h. . my minde is not to deny that the visible acts of eating , drinking , being washed in baptism , belong not to visible believers as visible , taking visible as coincident with real believers ; for invisible men can no more visibly partake of ordinances , than spirits can be baptized , and eat the lords supper . . iob and his godly friends were not forbidden to be circumcised , nor to sacrifice ; iob sacrificed warrantably , iob . c. . iob professeth he was visibly in covenant , iob . . and . . i know that my redeemer liveth . and so they were neither invisible members onely , nor debarred from the seals . nay , proselytes were admitted to the seals . mr. h. 〈◊〉 . . if the invisible church be the first subject of the seals , the invisible church must have the seals firstly , and the visible church secondarily ; as heat is first in the element of fire , and secondarily in things hot by participation , as iron . ans. it is no logick : if the invisible and real believer , for example , peter , be the first subject of the seals , including christ signified in them , then to receive the seals worthily , agree first to peter and to invisible real believers , and secondarily to these same invisible believers , as they do visibly declare by their savoury conversation , that they are really believers : but there is no real transmigration of accidents out of one subject to another ; that is cold logick : but such real and internal right to the seals , and to christ and his grace signified by the seals , do neither firstly nor secondarily belong to such visible saints as magus and iudas , yea neither per se , nor per participationem ; as the sun and stars are neither hot nor cold , either firstly or secondarily , for they are , aristotle saith , corpora quintae essentiae , bodies of a fifth essence , different from the elements and all mixed bodies . mr. h. p. , . the olive tree is the prime subject of the fatness that issues from it , and appertains to it , and of all the ordinances . but the visible church , rom. . is the olive , the seals and other priviledges are part of the fatness which pertains thereunto : therefore the visible church is the prime subject of them . that the olive is the visible church , see beza , pareus , willet . ans. . will mr. h. bide by this conclusion , that the visible church , including rotten magus , trayterous iudas , is the prime subject of all saving priviledges , of the new heart , gods inward heart-teaching , perseverance , & c ? then by his own argument , magus , and the visible body whereof he is a graceless member , as visible , must be first qualified inherently with all these saving priviledges , as heat is firstly ( saith he ) in the fire ; and then justification , perseverance in grace , must be transferred from such an ugly body as magus , iudas , &c. to real and invisible believers . . the assumption is false : reade again calvin , beza , pareus ; adde pet. martyr , the english notes , diodati , they expound not the olive of the visible church onely as contradistinguished from the invisible , as mr. h. takes the visible church in this dispute , as it includes the whole visible israel , even idolaters , who slew the prophets and the heir : but the church visible including the election , rom. . . and also the invisible and really justified , and by fatness , they mean not onely external priviledges , which the rotten hypocrites wanted not , but the juyce and sap of saving grace , by which , saith pet. martyr , they that are far off are made nigh , ephes. . , . and were engrafted in the head and body , saith pareus ; yea , willet citeth gorham , and lyra , who expound the fatness of habitual grace . mr. h. let mr. r. remember he said , lib. . pag. . none are to be cast out for non-regeneration known to be such . but if ye give them the seals ( saith mr. h. ) the church shall give the seals to such whom she knows have no right to them . ans. mr. h. himself is alike burthened with this as i am : a toleration there must be of some , until the scandals be examined , and censures applied , and the church knows men to be unregenerated , many dayes before they can know it juridicè . let mr. h. then answer , whether they should be debarred from the seals or not . . if such were admitted being free of scandal , it follows not ( its a poor begging of the question ) that the church should admit to the seals such as she knows hath no right . why ? because they are not in the judgement of charity real converts ; that is , non causa pro causa , no cause . mr. h. mr. r. puts the formalis ratio , the essential reason of offices and officers in another subject , besides the visible church , in the invisible catholick church , convertibly , or reciprocally and universally . whatsoever hath these priviledges , to wit , offices , officers , seals , right to the seals , &c. is the invisible catholick church . and onely the invisible catholick church ( ergo , not the visible ) hath all these priviledges . if mr. r. rid his hands , &c. it s good . ans. mr. h. hath two pages near by of this , of which whether i have rid my hands , let the judicious reader determine . know , reader , that mr. h. will have all priviledges , external offices , officers , seals , and right ecclesiastick ( which is formally a painted bastard right ) in the visible church , onely as its first subject : i rid my hands of this , by granting it ; take the visible church in a good sense , as including good and bad , nor said i ever any thing to the contrary . but these are not the saving priviledges of special note , such as to be taught of god , to persevere in saving grace , &c. as i oft say , p. , , &c. and though mr. h. his priviledges , to be an apostle , or another officer , to have right external to the seals ( a bastard right ) agree to the visible church , yea to iudas and magus , they being gratiae gratis datae : yet saving priviledges , the anointing ; the new heart , justification , perseverance ; the styles of spouse , sister , love , dove , &c. are such as i desire mr. h. to rid his hands , and to clear the coasts to us , by his answer to my words . due right , par . . pag. , . divers pages ; how these agree reciprocally to his visible church . i take but some few . the single congregatinn of such as magus and peter , &c. is the first and reciprocal , and proper subject of the anointing , of justification , and perseverance . and convertibly , all that have the anointing , are justified , persevere , are onely the single independent congregation of such as magus and peter , &c. what then will mr h. do with his own , that are both visibly and invisibly justified , regenerate , who by persecution or pestilence are broken from the independent church ? shall they not share of the anointing , because they are not members of the single congregation ? this is hard measure to the godly , and bad divinity . this is not good logick , that therefore mr. r. must shew some other essential causes of offices and officers besides the invisible church : he must mean the visible church of which magus is a member . i know in logick , that the subject is an essential cause of an accident ; subjectum sumitur in d●finitione per additamentum , i learned long ago . and for the close , the society , the saving priviledges , of the new heart , perseverance , is the invisible church ; and all that have these , the anointing , perseverance , &c. is the invisible mystical true church . i own this reciprocation , as new logick ; though let not the reader mistake , i take invisible as opposed to visible in its latitude , as it takes in both believing peter , and the hypocrite magus ; yet so , as the visible church is so named , to wit , a true visible church , from the choicest part , but not as invisible is opposed to visible , tali modo , both visible and sincere : for the catholick church invisible , is also the catholick church visible , to wit , tali modo , in a sincere profession visible . chap. xix . mr. h. his formal cause of a church visible , or church confederating , is considered . mr. h. we have done with the material cause : now we come to the formal cause of the visible church . the faithful , whether they be seemingly or sincerely such , scattered up and down the earth , are like stones in the streets , or timber in the field , they may have a communion by faith , by which they are an invisible body mystical , but until they meet together in one place , and have right to all the ordinances there , and be confederate by a church-covenant , which gives the formality to these churches , they are not visible church members . ans. if the faithful scattered in sundry congregations have an invisible communion onely by faith , and so make up an invisible communion , and an invisible mystical body ; then two sister-churches that cannot meet in one place , though they may do all the duties of church-gaining one another , as mat. . yet are not a visible body , no● their acts , acts of church-profession , not are they visible members of the same body of christ , because they partake no● of the ordinances within the same walls , as do members of the same single congregation : so there is no visible communion , but within the walls of one church ; which is absurd , and repugnant to common sense . . it is uncharitable , and against the word , to teach , that when a church is dissolved , by no sin and scandal visible , but by persecution or pestilence , that the dissolved members , though both real and visible converts , have no right to the ordinances : for if the formal cause , to wit , their confederacy into one visible body , as mr. h. saith , be removed , their visible and external right is removed . the like is to be said of visible professors , and of members of another congregation , and known godly sojourners ; these mr. h. excommunicates for no scandal visible and invisible : for impossible it is that they can meet together in one place with their own church , with which onely they are incorporate by this confederacy . mr. h. this confederating implieth two . . the act of mutual engaging , which passeth away , arising from the act of obligation , the state of membership . the nature of incorporating members to mutual duties will constrain to yield to this . ans. . an oath or covenant is no passing away thing , as mr. h. saith , but leaveth the person under the tie . . the state of trying these persons and their seed to be baptized onely into the single body , is a dream , even to mr. robinson , and the engagement that gives them right to ordinances onely with that single congregation , and in one place , and with no society else to partake of one bread , and of one christ , cor. . . is a scriptureless imagination : for cor. . , . we are baptized all , iews and gentiles , by one spirit into one body , ( catholick , not a single congregation onely ) and are all made to drink into one spirit , in the lords supper , even all ; not of one single congregation onely , but of several congregations , whether they be engaged mr. h● . way or not . mr. h. the judgement must be of persons free ( in regard of humane constraint ) for they may joyn , or not joyn to this congregation , to receive them or not receive them . . it gives power to each over another , to watch over one another . answ. mr. h. makes three properties of this engagement ; but he is sharp-sighted , who can difference the third from the first . . freedom from humane constraint i● dubious : if from the christian magistrate compelling to elicite acts of the will ; never man , i think , dreamed of such constraint , as may be laid upon men to believing , loving , fearing . if it be freedom from compelling the external man to imperate acts ; our divines say , the magistrate may civilly in his way compel to the means of salvation , the baptized ones especially , both to hear , and to eat and drink at the lords table in some true church . if it be freedom from a law of god , or the church constraint , as this it must be , or then nothing is said . . god hath commanded all to come to the house , pro. . ● . prov. . , , . matth. . , , , . luk. . . and that is a prophesie to be fulfilled under the new testament , zach. . . and it shall be that who so will not come up of all the families of the earth unto jerusalem , to worship the king , the lord of hosts , even upon them there shall be no rain . the english notes say , it figures the elects gathering together into a particular church , to which every one must reduce himself to partake of the communion of saints . and they are also the words of diodati , and calvin , iunius , piscator , danaeus , say the same in sense . it is true , preaching to a particular church should be voluntary , but not by such a covenant , and so all worship should be ; and it were not enough to say , lord , thou commandest us to get us to the shepherds tents , cant. . . and to come into wisdoms house ; but we have freedom to enter members to this or this , or all the churches on earth . . and it is in all the churches on earths power to receive us , or not ; which is also false . one is born , baptized , comes to be a visible professor in the church of boston ; is not that providential necessity a ground to the magistrate to command him to do his duty , and for the church to constrain him by ob●estations , censures , being born a member , to partake of the ordinances , as his duty is . o but he is not satisfied with the ministery of boston , but he hath freedom to enter a member of a church a hundred miles distant by a new church-oath : shew a warrant why he ought not to worship the lord there where his calling and trade is ; he must confess christ before men in all places , it is not arbitrary then . . not one word of god is alledged , that this engagement gives power to watch over one another in this congregation onely , and not in all congregations where providence shall dispose he shall be ; as if all these church-duties to members of christ , of warning one another , comforting , watching over one another , taking care for one another , mourning with those that mourn , col. . . thess. . , , . cor. . , . heb. . , . & . . rom. . . were forbidden as contrary to the rule of the gospel , in order to all precious church-membes of other congregations of which we are not members . mr. h. there is good cause why visible saints ( u● supra ) who are thus to engage to watch over one another , should be acquainted with each others fitness , &c. and because the work is weighty , it would be done with fasting and praying , which is not requisite , when one single member is admitted . ans. that the thousands baptized of iohn baptist , and the three thousand , acts . who were to engage themselves , that is , before they were admitted , could have acquaintance and knowledge of the spiritual fitness one of another , is impossible ; and not onely wants the authority of the word , but is expresly against it ; for it was impossible in some few hours to be done . . ten neighbouring sister churches lying together are obliged to watch over one another , then they ought , by the rule of the gospel , to come under the same engagement . mr. h. an implicite covenanting may be sufficient : as suppose a congregation consist of the children of parents expresly confederate , but vocal and express confederation comes nearest to the rule . mr. r. his bitter clamours , that we make all other churches save our own , no church , will be past . ans. the popish and lutheran churches in which there is valid baptism , in which a vow is made to walk in church-wayes , as observing one another , shall have the formal cause of true visible churches , and so must be true visible churches ; for they have this covenant implicitely and virtually . . how shall we be made from the scriptures to see that the baptist , mar. . . the disciples of christ , who baptized moe disciple than iohn , jo● . . did tye by oath one way or another , ( and the covenant being their complete rule must be vocal and express ) are they so inchurched to engage to these church-duties within their own congregations ? the word hints at no such thing . . there is a necessity of vocal covenant always , if it come nerest to the rule ; but where is the rule ? . what making of matter and form as so described , and what reciding from the rule of these churches in the essentials , is so well known to all , as they must be most false churches that are not made of visible converts , which is the constitution of the anabaptist churches : for bitter clamours and unworthy aspersions , i wish mr. h. had expressed them , that the reader might judge . i judge that the church of christ in n. e. makes true the prophecy , that the wilderness and the desert do there rejoyce and blossom as a rose , isa. . . judicious mr. cawdrey citeth dr. holmes making an explicite covenant necessary . mr. h. cohabitation , which is necessary for our churches , is such as is fit for the end , for the dispensing of ordinances and c●nsures where they may conveniently meet , acts . cor. . . & . . it suffers some exceptions . the church may send out some to begi●…●…antations where they want able guides , until they attain to a church-state . states may be compelled to send men to sea for traffique and for war , and yet no prejudice is done to the rule of christ , they are said to cohabit where the place of their abode is in the issue . ans. if cohabitation be necessary for the attaining the end ; then , as the pastor cannot be a non-resident , by necessity of a calling in trading , neither can ten godly merchants be three years absent , as mr. h. sayes solomons merchants were , but they must be non-residents , and neglect church watching , ●nd break covenant , if it be said ( as it must be ) it should be the ministers onely calling to reside and watch , but the merchant hath an extraordinary calling to trade beside . ans. this confirms us not a little ; no godly visible professors can tye themselves by covenant or oath to exercise the common christian acts of a church member onely to such a society , but in an occasional and providential way : for it is as unlawful to tye church-worship to one society or place under the new testament , as it was to tie it of old to bethel & gilgal , hos. . . & . . & . . amos . which is a demonstration that a godly professor carrieth about a soul with him stands in need of church-feeding by the lords supper , and other church ordinances in all the christian world , and that he is to warn , admonish , comfort all church members , and to labour to gain a trespassing brother , not of the single congregation only whereof he is a member , matth. . and neither scriptures , nor sound divinity , nor the law of nature ( which is not destroyed by the gospel ) will warrant to limit the word , brother , as mr. h. doth , and his brethren , matth. . if thy brother trespass , if he hear thee , thou hast gained thy brother ; to a brother only of the congregation of which the offended brother is a member ; as if christ had not set down a rule , mat. . of gaining all brethren within the single congregation , or about it ; for the word , brother , is of this latitude , that it comprehendeth . all that may offend a brother , that is , one not only within a single congregation only , of which the brother offended is a member , but also one of another congregation . now mr. h. saith , ye have no church power over one of a●●ther congregation . . he is a brother whom ye are obliged to admonish , go tell him . . he is a brother whom thou must labour to gain ; thou hast gained thy brother . . he is a brother who is obliged to hear the church : he will not hear the church . . he is a brother who may be cast out , let him be to thee as a heathen . . he is one whose sinnes ●ay be bound in heaven , verse , . . he is a brother , who if gained , may pray and meet with others in a church-way in the name of christ. . he is a brother , who if he be gained , christ grants his desire and prayer , verse , . . he is a brother , who is to be pardoned , if he sin against peter seventy times seven times , verse , . . he is a brother , who ought to forgive his fellow-brother , as he would have god to forgive him , verse , , . now it were a foul straitning of the word of christ , to say these ten agree only to a brother in order to another brother of the same single congregation , as if we did owe by christs doctrine in that notable sermon , compassion , forgiveness , teaching , gaining &c. to no brethren , but to those of the same congregation , where of we our selves are members . . this doctrine deprives godly travellers , so journers , savoury professors , of the lords supper , for three , for six years , of the ordinance of the lords supper , of church-teaching , rebuking , prayer , church comforts , of all church-manifestations , and of all church communion with christ , the head of the visible church , of all church-presence of him that walks in the midst of the golden candlesticks , of all church-influences , of all sanctuary-beauty , for no scandal or sin , but onely for going about a lawful duty in all the visible churches on earth , as is clear cant. . . & . , , . psal. . . & . , . & . , & . , , , . hib. . . psal. . . & , , . for it cannot take off the argument to say , the godly professor may have the same comforts , but in an invisible way , which he hath in his own church , in his native abode in a visible and church-way : for , . this is to beg the question , for h●s professed hearing , praying with a forreign church is as visible as at home . . if christ no where have deprived a man of the comfort of the lords supper , whithersoever he come and profess himself a visible saint , no men on earth can deprive him ; but there is no more warrant why a visible saint should not every where remember the lords day by eating , as he may pray every where in faith holding up pure hands : for as he takes gods name in vain , if he hate to be reformed ; so also to banquet with christ , not discerning the lords body . . if these forreign churches , of which he is no member ( as mr. h. saith ) may and do as well discern mr. h. his marks of a visible saint , as his own church , to wit , after trading among them divers years , to them he savours as if he had been with iesus , p. , . he abstains from all known sins , p . then have they as good right to tender the lords supper to him as his own church , and he may have a desire , and the same right both real and visible , that he hath to the ordinances in his own congregation ; then , as the eunuch said , here is water , so , here is a ●able , and christ in eating , what should hinder him to eat ? is not christ walking beside the golden candlesticks here as at home ? . if providence necessitate him , as he is chased by persecution to one city , and is banished out of that , that he must fly to another , and from that to another , and from that to a third , and is providentially necessitated to have no certain dwelling , as was abraham , and the saints case , heb. . , . cor. . . so was christs case , matth. . . he must either live by the rule of the gospel , all his life , without church-ordinances , or as he cometh to ten sundry churches visible , he must be ten times , twenty times married unto , and divorced from the church , have and lose church-right to a communion with christ in his body and blood , and to the head christ , and to all the edifying comforts of church-ordinances . chap. xx. the arguments of mr. h. for a church-covenant considered and removed . mr. h. every spiritual and ecclesiastical incorporation receives its being from a spiritual combination . so cities and towns have their charter granted them from king and state , to meet for such ends ; it is the sement that sodders all . . polished hewen stones give not being to a house , except they be conjoined , &c. but every particular church is a city , heb. . . a house , tim. . . the body of christ , eph. . , . cor. . , . and all these are particular visible churches where pastors and teachers are set , and members k●it together . so mr. r. lib. . pag. . a church in an island is a little city , a little kingdom of iesus christ. answ. mr. h. in the title saith , . the reasons of the covenant , and concludes nothing for a covenant , but only tells us saints are the matter , like scattered stones , union makes the form ; but union is the result , the covenant goes before ; the proposition is , every corporation receives its being from combination : this shall prove no more , but the congregation is a congregation from union of members ; ( this is no conclusion debated by us ) and proves as well that a national church , a larger kingdom of christ , as rev. . . isa. . . egypt and assyria are made the lords people visibly considerated , isa. . . and that by one union , one lord , one faith , one baptism , by the covenant of grace so professed ; yea , the invisible catholike body , the bride the lambs wife , rev. . is a spiritual corporation by such an union . . the thing in question is never proved , to wit , that every single congregation is made a visible body within it self , by such a covenant as the members are engaged to watch over only one another of that society , have a church right to ordinanc●s , word , seals , censures , only with the members of that one society that meet within the walls in one house , and with no other all the earth over . . the comparison of a city to a state holds not ; see mr. cawdry . cities , . have different charters and priviledges in measures , trading , selling . . different publick rents , burrough-lands . . different governments , some by major and aldermen , as royal burghs : some far otherwise . and so . free citizens in london , not free citizens in york , and here is some specifical difference ( as it were ) in laws and freedom● . but it is a poor begging of the question without probation to say , that single congregations have these four differences ; for all congregations visible have . the same charter , the covenant of grace , one faith and doctrine of the gospel . one inheritance and hope of glory , eph. . . one and the same visible head christ. . the same baptism , and are all visible brethren and members , having the same right to the seals all the world over , without any new church covenant . phoebe , iustus , epaphroditus , rom. . . col. . . eph. . . are brethren ( visible professors , the distinction of saluting brethren , and of church-brethren must not be taken up on our brethrens word ) having right by letters of recommendation to seals , as mr. cotton teacheth : now letters of recommendation , as i prove , ( and mr. h. never lets on him that he did read it ) yea , nor do men or angels give , but only declare right , that brethren pastors had before in all churches to baptism , to partake of the seals , otherwise they cannot eat the lords supper in another congregation , contrary to both the truth and mr. cotton , and the way of the churches of n. e. except they swear or engage themselves members to all the churches about where they should and ought occasionally to receive the seals , and partake of church-comforts . but this mr. h. flatly contradicteth ; let them agree among themselves : now such an engaging being a binding of themselves to impossibilities , that they shall discharge duties of watching over all , as over their door-neighbours of the same flock , is unpossible , and so unlawful ; no authority on earth can take saith , or the holy and blameless visible profession thereof from a visible professor ; and to whatever table of the lord he comes , or ordinances of ministerially preached promises , they are his by his faith visibly professed ; mr. h. must shew one inhibition of christ to debar any visible son from the fathers bread ; if then the argument be drawn from civil corporations ( as they cry out against this argument in us for provincial and national churches ) it must be this , as every incompleat corporation or lane in london consenting to receive such a man an inhabitant and member of that lane , doth not make the man so received a free citizen of london , for that he was before they received him , when he was a member of another lane : and every city admitting a man to be a free citizen of london , does not make him a subject of the kingdom of england , for that he was before he was a citizen : so neither does every single church receiving a member , make him for that a member of the visible church : for . he was before ( we suppose ) baptized , and both a real and a visible saint , and had church right to partake of the lord jesus , and the bread , not as a seal of our communion with the member● of his own church only , but of all the churches of the saints , saith the church of n. e. the argument is not unlike this : whatever constitutes socrates a single person , doth also constitute him a man , which is most false . . the texts in the assumption are widely mistaken , heb. . , . but you are come to mount ziou , that is , to a single independent congregation ; nay read more , v. . to the general assembly and church of the first-born , which are written in heaven ; that is , to a company of visible saints , of which seven may be a church ( saith the way of the churches of n. e. ) and these sometimes ( say they and m. h. ) hypocrites , such as iudas and magus : if so , then these must be called the city of the living god , the heavenly ierusalem , the general assembly of the first-born , whose names are written in heaven . it may grieve the godly , that the word of god should be so perverted : oecumenius , and thtophylact and galvin , piscator , marlor●● , english divines , diedati , pare●s , as also cajetanus , esthius , cal them the universal church of the elect . the place tim. . . is not to be limited to the church of ephesus , pareus loquitur de columna ministeriali , of a ministerial church that preacheth the gospel , and so it s nothing to this purpose ; calvin , beza , cr●●iger , he means the church indefinitely whithersoever timothy should come , let it be a particular congregation , it is made up of preaching pastors , who bear up the truth , by the preached gospel , as the pillars ( say piscator and pareus ) bear up the house . the place eph. . , . is meant not of a visible congregation , whose members are magus and iudas ; for christ leading captivity captive , and ascending , gave not apostles and teachers finaliter , for the saving and perfecting of the visible body as visible in mr. h. his way ( which must be said , if any thing be proved against us ) but of the body which is visible , but not as visible , but as he saved the church , inlived by christ , saith beza : he speaketh , saith calvin , of the end of the ministry , until we all meet in the unity of faith ; not that all men shall believe in christ , but he speaketh by a syn●cdoche ( saith he ) of the pr●destinate only ; for they only come to the unity of faith who are chosen to glory . zanchius and grave and learned d. bodius of trochrigge in his learned commentary , as also piscator , bullinger , sarcerius , marloratus , rollocus , diodati , english divines , with the text expound the place of the true mystical body . for . christ ascended for that body , and sent apostles not for magus , and such of mr. hookers visible saints . . he intends the perfecting and edifying of that body , verse . and apostles and pastors are theirs , and for their salvation , cor. . . cor. . . . christ is the saving head only of that body , and the visible church is never called his body in scripture , because visible , but by a figure , because of the lively members among them , drawing life from the head christ , eph. . , . eph. . . eph. . . col. . . . he speaks of that body which shall come with all the saints to the unity of faith . . which grows up into a perfect man , &c. which is a living body , from which i excommunicate magus and iudas . and for the place cor. . , . it 's not a single congregation visible ; shew in all the scripture where a single congregation , yea , and every single congregation never so few ( for were it but of seven , or ten , or twenty , it is an instituted politick church ( though wanting pastors to our brethren ) is called christs , the body of christ , as this church . so calvin , beza , martyr , n●● parvae consolatio hac ; it is no small comfort , that the church is called christs , because it is his body : for as cyrillus saith , christ , assumed the nature common to all . . all the members of the body being many are one body , so also is christ : yea , th●se many are men of divers cases , divers nations ( saith p●rous ) yea jews and gentile● , verse . and therefore this is the catholike visible body . . it is the body , that have been all made to drink into one spirit , in the lords supper ; but this must be the many members of divers congregations , cor. . . as our brethren confess . . it is the body that lives by the spirit of christ , 〈◊〉 . . for when christians are said to make one body , it is not understood of a politick body only , but ( saith martyr ) of the spiritual and secret body of christ which aims at life eternal , and hath all th●se common , god , christ , the holy ghost , the word of god , grace , the sacraments , to wit , baptisme , the lords supper , called by a synecdoche , a drinking of the wine in the supper ; into one spirit , which excludeth not the eating of the bread , v● . and so sometimes he speaks of his body in regard of its parts , to wit , of single congregations where the sacraments are administrate , and where there are prophets , watchmen , pastors , ruling elders , as eyes and ears , yet not fixed and married by a church-oath to one only single congregation , and all along as of the catholike visible body . and it is true which mr. r : grants , that a church in an island is a little city ; but so as it is a member of the catholike visible body , that hath no charters and priviledges spiritual different from these of the whole . mr. h. arg. . they who have mutual power each over other to command and constrain in cases whereas they were free before , must by mutual engagement be made partakers of that power . but such are the church of believers . ergo. the second part of the assumption is clear by matth. . where a legal order is set , by which brethren only of the same church ought to exercise power one over another , not over infidels , nor yet with other christians ; for i rebuke a christian of another church , i cannot call the church ; he departs the place and refuses to come ; but i may in a legal way convince and bind archippus , for he is a brother ; and mr. r. saith , if the classis will not censure him , the congregation may reject him . learned whitaker saith , that each of the congregation or counsel hath power over the apostle peter , as a brother to censure him ; so saith mr. r. ans. the conclusion denied is not proved , but this , ergo they must by mutual engagement be made partakers of this power . the question is , whether this church-covenant be the formal cause of membership visible to and in this onely congregation , and no other visible church on earth . . the proposition is false ; for before that engagement so monopolized and restricted to that one onely congregation ( which were will-worship ) these brethren being born of believing parents , and also solemnly by their covenant in baptism were engaged visible members of all the visible church on earth , and of this of boston , & these round about ( where by providence they dwell ) they visibly professing the gospel . i deny not but it is lawful for a sojourning godly professor , to promise to watch over these of the congregation where he sojourns : but not in in all cases expedient that he multiply twenty engagements , and it may be twenty oathes , or solemn promises in twenty sundry congregations ; so may he engage for a family , camp , colledge , ship. and it is false to say , . you onely are my church brethren , matth. . . it is false to say , i have church-power to the seals here onely . . i am made , by this engagement , a member of christ visible , whereas i was not so before . . it is false , that when i remove to another church from this , that i los● all church-right to seals , all church-power to gain brethren to christ there . and . it is false , that when i leave this church , i am unchurched , no fellow-citizen with the saints , no church-member , and yet i was never excommunicate . . the assumption is most false , that by matth. . a brother is to gain onely a brother of that congregation whereof he is a member : mr. h. aims not to prove that , if thy brother trespass , &c. that our saviour means onely of that independent congregation , whereof the brother is a member engaged to that onely congregation , where the gaining and offended brother is a member . i have alledged ten reasons on the contrary . mr. h. his reason is against himself and the text , as well as against us . you ( saith he ) rebuke one of another congregation , he will not hear you ; tell the other church , he departs the place . what then ? his church he leaves should proceed to censure him by matth. . and may not a brother of the same church refuse to hear also , and depart the place ? and the place of matth. . ( say we ) proveth that both are to be censured by their own respective churches , as obstinate offenders . . mr. r. saith indeed , that one congregation hath no power of iurisdiction over another , but each may complain of another to a presbytery , or to a church above both , else the remedy of christ to remove scandals between church and church , is too narrow , and very nothing ; and sister-churches offending each against others , are not to rebuke , and labour ( by mr. h. his way ) to gain one another to christ ; and nothing can be more contrary to love and edification , th●n this , and more contrary to our saviours intent , mat. . . what is the formal binding and loosing which one congregation hath over another , or one member hath over another of the same , or of divers congregations , the scripture is silent : the churches of divers congregations lay on burthens and binde other churches under them , act. . . and command and enjoyn the things to be believed and done : so mr. cotton . but that one church-member may binde and loose , is unknown to the scripture : for you may say so , one subject may binde and loose , forgive debts and bloodshed , because he may complain , or forbear to complain to the magistrate , and so one church may binde or loose another church , and one member may binde or loose a whole church , and many churches , by complaining or not complaining to sound neighbour-churches , whose it is to unchurch by non-communion , or to forbear . . mr. h. proves not that members have not power over each other by this engagement , because before the engagement they are free , and none can compel them to be church-members , or to be baptized , luk. . true , but if they reside and refuse to joyn to the true church , and so deny christ before men , and being professors , if they refuse to joyn to the true church of christ , they are to be esteemed as heathens or publicans ; as the lawyers who refused to be baptized , despised the counsel of god , luke . . and the gospel-threatnings for refusing to come to wisdomes banquet , prov. . , . & . , . luk. . . are no less bindings and constrainings in their kinde , than church-rebukes of one to another , and excommunication . of this before . it is probable and more , that a godly christian conquerour may hinder conquered heathen to blaspheme christ , and adore idols , and compel them to hear the gospel . . it a wonder that mr. h. should cite whitaker , or any of our divines , who are all for the power of presbyteries , synods , yea of an oecumenick councel , from mat. . which he himself disclaims as an invention of men . mr. h. arg. . voluntary combination makes a man a member of a presbyterian church , as mr. r. lib. . pag. . th●n must voluntary combining make one a member of a congregation . answ. still the point in question is never touched . will this prove that voluntary engagement is the formal cause of a visible church ? so mr. h. tells us , ch . . pag. . of the formal cause of a visible church : nor doth voluntary combining make any so a member of this presbyterial church ; as he is not also a member of the whole visible church , or as he hath no church right by divine institution to ordinances and seals in another presbyterial and congregational church , as this way of mr. h. teacheth : for , as i say in that place , presbyterial churches & congregational in their being are of divine institution , but in their local bounds , and determitate number of members , they are things of conveniency , of order , and providential necessity , not of divine institution ; and the consequence is poor and nothing ; for that is a huge mistake of mr. h. an implicite covenant is , when professors in practise do that whereby they make themselves to walk in such a society without any verbal profession ; for then a sojourning believer partaking in fourty churches of the seals in some few years , occasionally doth enter fourty implicite covenants , doth fourty times unchurch himself , and lose and take up of new his burges-ticket and church-right , and lose it again : for mr. cotton , and the way of the churches of n. e. teach , that such a man an hundred times partakes of the seals in some few years , and may lawfully do it , as a son coming occasionally to ten sundry tables in ten cities or ten families , which do equally belong to his rich and potent father , as he providentially cometh along ; yet is he not ten times for that made a son and member of his fathers great family ; for his one and the same numerical sonship gives him right to all the ten tables : so one and the same visibly professed sonship gives to a sojourning believer the same church-right to be fed at all the tables , to all church ordinances in ten hundred visible churches all the earth over ; letters of recommendation do declare , but not create his church-right to christ and ten hundred lords suppers ; and it is a dream , that the practising and partaking of the lords supper gives ten hundred new combinations and fancied formalities of membership to all the churches , whether congregational or presbyterial . say one be necessitated to dwell in his fathers heritage , and must be a member of that church ; what scripture doth loose him from the same occasional duties he owes to the church from whence he departed , as now being no fixed member thereof ? mr. h. arg. that society of men who may enjoy such priviledges spiritual into which none are admitted without the approbation of the whole , that society must be in a special combination ; for such an act argueth a combined power , which the whole hath , and not any member alone ; and that they cannot have but by their agreement . but the congregation is such . they who have power to choose , have power to reject their officers , who offer themselves to be members . ans. if none may be admitted without the approbation of the whole congregation , then may no visible saints , members of sister visible churches , be admitted to church-ordinances pastoral , hearing , seals , rebukes , comforts , prayers in a church-way , but by some covenant one or other made between the church and these strangers that come to partake : let scripture speak , if communion of saints be not here enough . . this fell from a sleeping pen , and what the conclusion is who can tell ? 't is far from the question : for the conclusion is , ergo , the members of the congregation are combined . why not ? valeat totum . and the whole church must admit the communicants the many thousands ; then ten or twelve thousand of ierusalem must all be acquainted with the visible saintship of each other ; yea , women who have taken the church-covenant as well as men : then can none hear , nor partake of church-prayers and seals in another congregation , without the privity , and conscience and consent of all the members , suppose they be ten thousand , and without the consent of the whole : now women are confederate members as well as men . mr. h. arg. . christian affection makes not the church ; for it is in such as never saw other . ans. it proves nothing : they may be members of the visible catholick church , who never saw one another in the face , prov. . . isa. . , . & . . psa. . , &c. . cohabitation ( saith mr. h. ) and meeting in one place , makes not a church ; for turks may meet to hear the word , cor. . ergo , covenanting must be the formal of a church . ans. . divers other things are required to the essence of a visible church , as we shall hear . . all is beside the question , we dispute not now the essence of a congregation . chap. xxi . whether mr. hooker doth prove this conclusion ( which mr. r. never said , nor wrote , nor thought ) that baptism gives formality , or makes a member of a visible church . mr. h. if there be a church , and so members before baptism , then baptism cannot give formality ; for forma is causal , and before formatum . but the church now considered as totum essentiale , is before baptism . for ministers are before baptism , else baptism may be administred lawfully before by such as are not rulers nor pastors , which is denied by orthodox divines , and none can give a call to ministers , but onely a church of believers . ans. it s a conclusion not ingenuously forged , as if i made baptism the specifick form of membership visible ; he ought to have cited my words . by baptism ( i say ) we are received solemnly into the visible church ; and baptism is a seal of our entry into christs visible body , as swearing to the colours entreth a souldier a member to the army ; and , we teach not that baptism constituteth the church visible simply as the church , it s a seal of a visible profession . i distinguish the simple being of a visible member actu primo ; such are infants born within the covenant visibly made to parents , the promise is made to church-members , gen. . . acts . . from the solemn entry and admission into the visible church . . i distinguish between simple being of a member , and actual solemn communion or visible profession : so speaks the renowned assembly , so calvin , bucan , tilen , professors of leyden , beza , ursine , tr●l●atius , pet. martyr , iunius , pareus , waleus : it s a seal for our solemn admission , and solemn ingraffing and adopting into the visible church , cor. . . for by one spirit we are baptized into one body , &c. . the conclusion is fancied , and nothing against me , who teach , that baptism is the door , way and means of our solemn installing into actual communion with the visible teaching ministerial church , ( which arminians and socinians deny ) ergo , must baptism be before the ministers ? . this fancied homogeneous church visible of onely believers , can be no politick church , and that in ordinary to christs second coming , which calleth ministers , for ministers did baptize this church ; then must the effect , to wit , called ministers , be before , and that ordinarily the creating cause , to wit , the church of believers who made them ministers , a dream : if this homogeneous church be a number of unbaptized believers , ( and such pagans they must be , for mr. h. saith , they are a born church , before their fathers baptizers ) then must unbaptized children ( a strange church ) call and give ministerial being , and that ordinarily , to their fathers , and choose out of their own unbaptized body their own pastors not yet baptized : and who baptized these unbaptized ? not the unbaptized church , nor themselves . mr. h. i judge would deny both . . as to that , whether the church or the ministery be first , it is sure , adam and evah , as men , were before the word : if any say , they being created according to the image of god , were created a church ; yet some priority there is of the subject , before the concreated law : but sure they were not created a visibly professing church , and therefore the word , as preached in paradise by the lord the first minister , gen. . , . must be before adam and evah as a visibly professing church . for , the seed is before the tree , the means before the end , the father before the childe , and so some ministery , ordinary or extraordinary begetting , there must be , before the church begotten . who baptized iohn baptist ? or if he was at all baptized , is not much . but that the church in the ordinary way of christ is before the baptizing and begetting ministery , is wilde divinity . mr. h. if baptism cannot be before a ministerial church , nor a ministerial church before a congregational church , which onely can call them to be ministers ; then such a church is much more before baptism . for before the coming of some godly zealous christian and scholar into a countrey where there are a company of pagans converted , they may joyn in church-fellowship , and call this man lawfully according to god , to be their minister , therefore there is a church before a minister , and so before baptism . ans. . mr. h. gives an extraordinary instance of his own devising , without scripture ; and of this he frames a fixed ordinary rule , may not converted pagans , which onely ( saith he ) can call ministers , call this christian scholar to be their minister according to god ? no , say we , . god never did it , nor is there any scripture-proof for it . . why doth mr. h. frame a new instance of his own , and pass by the lords way ? for god sends not private men , or christian unofficed scholars ( or if he do , their extraordinary sending makes them publick pastors and prophets , not the people ) but he sent philip an evangelist , and after peter and iohn to samaria , act. . paul to macedonia , act. . and his own ministers , tit. . . tim. . . & . . paul and barnabas , men in office , some more than zealous christians and scholars to the gentiles , act. . ionah to niniveh , ananias to baptize paul , jon. . act. . . doth not mr. h. dress up a providence of a christian scholar sent to converted pagans , and must they be made the ordinary and onely church who can call ministers ? and this scholar being unbaptized himself , must as the married pastor in the ordinary way of christ baptize to his dying day others , and his calling must be null ( say our brethren ) except that onely church call him ; and according to the ordinary rule of christ , he must be all his life unbaptized ( which must be a reputing of baptism , with the famil●st , a thing indifferent ) rather than he own a forreign jurisdiction ( as mr. lockier speaketh ) so as to be baptized by a pastor of another church . mr. h. if baptism give the form to visible membership , then while that remaineth valid , as it doth in excommunicated persons , and when the church is dissolved , visible membership must remain ; for where the form is , the formatum , the thing having such a form must be also : for , relata se mutuò ponunt & t●llunt . ans. the conclusion is fancied , and nothing against me . . there be two things in baptized members . . god is their god , of egypt and assyria , fathers and sons under the new testament , as the prophecy is , isa. . , . & . . & . , , . rev. . . . infants are holy as the root , cor. . , . rom. . . and it must be cruel divinity to say , that fathers and feed broken off an independent church through persecution , and no sin in them , are by the lord cast out of visible covenanting with god , and from membership and church right to the seals : nor is baptism any wayes removed . . there is the solemnity of admission by baptism in the excommunicate ; this is hurt : but it s no more to me the formal cause of membership , than the ceremony of coronation , or the delivery of a sword , is the specifick form of a king , and of a major : and therefore all is granted , and mr. h. proves nothing . m. h. baptism is but a separable accident to the covenant , its efficacy may be hindered by the unworthy receiver , and yet it remains in its own nature to the excommunicate and dissolved member , for the form can never be removed from the thing formed . if to be the eldest son be the formal cause of possession , it could never have been taken away . but to be a well-deserving heir , is that wh●ch gives formality of possession . ans. . it is a wonder that m. h. cannot find valid arguments to bear a free conclusion . for to me baptism is not a means of a church-membership simply , but of a church-member tali modo , that is , of a member conspicuously and solemnly differenced from a pagan . . it is bad divinity to join the nocent excommunicate man with the innocent dissolved member . . it is a naughty argument to prove that baptism is a separable accident of the covenant : why ? because its efficacy may be hindered by unbelief : for the efficacy of any thing is the actus secundus , the operation of it , not its essence ; so he may prove that christ the essential subject of the gospel is a separable accident of the gospel and covenant of grace , because both the efficacy of the gospel and of the redeemer , by mens unworthiness and unbelief is hindered . . he concludes not so much as his own fansied conclusion ; to wit , this only , ergo the efficacy of baptism is not the specified form of visible membership ; valeat totum : what dreamer said any such thing ? it is sure baptism in fieri , as it is administrate and professed , is the means of the excommunicate mans solemn installing and engaging to be a follower of christ : and by the scandal that brings on excommunication baptism as professed and as binding is so far hurt as the covenant-baptismal is violated : and if the man be excommunicate for apostasy , then it is disputable whether baptism be not quite undone . . it is weak moral philosophy which mr. h. addeth , that well deserving in an heir gives formality to possession . well deserving gives just and law-right to possession in the heir : but he is a weak lawyer who would so plead ; the innocent traveller believing in god hath due deserving to his own purse , which yet is in the bloody robbers pocket . why mr. h. saith he hath well deserving , which ( saith he ) is the formal cause of possession , and so he must have possession , for the formal cause cannot be separated from formatum . and so godly david unjustly expelled from his kingdom for many years , yet deserving well , must have right both to possess his kingdom , and not possess it , for if he have the formal cause of possession , he must have possession when he is expelled . mr. h. it shall follow that the church of rome is a true church , for all the members of that church have true baptism , which is the formal cause of a true church : but that is false , that that church is a true church . ans. the conclusion of the connex proposition is nothing against me , who deny baptism to be the formal cause of membership . . such a baptism that is valid , as touching the substance of the seal , as is in rome , such a church according to the metaphysick entity and being of a church , is rome a ministerial church , teaching necessary fundamentals , though darkning and contradicting all ; but it is not morally a true church , but leprose and unclean . see what iunius , whitaker , calvin and rivetus say hereupon : mr. h. is far from their sound expressions ; if this be true , then to iezabel and seducing teachers , who are under the church-covenant , the formal cause of membership must appertain , and they must be church-members , and must be tolerate , till they be judicially tried , and censures applyed , so mr. h. a and church priviledges bestowed on them at the command of christ. so also mr. h. b so visible non-converts , and swine adorned with pearls , contrary to christs command , matth. . . and yet keeping the essential form of visible saints , must be visible converts . which is a contradiction . mr. h. the seal of our incorporation , which is latter and posterior to the incorporation cannot be the form of it ; for the sacrament is not appointed to make a thing that was not , but to confirm that was ; or it doth not give , but confirm grace . but such is baptism . ans. the conclusion is not against me . . observe that mr. h. sides with arminians and socinians , who deny the seals to be exhibitive signs , and make them meer signs : but seals used in faith , both confirm the former grace , and add increase of grace . baptism seals that union with the visible church , which was actu primo in infants , being born federally holy , rom. . . cor. . . and is a way and means of one more solemn installing in the visible church ; as the receiving of the keys of a castle , both confirms the covenant of the princes giving of the castle to the receiver , and doth more solemnly authorize the man as captain of the castle . the like may be said of the press-money received by the souldier , who before had given up his name to the captain , and that by covenant . mr. h. the church was visible , when there was no seal , neither circumcision nor baptism ; therefore these do not constitute it , nor any member thereof , gen. , . ans. . these five arguments mr. h. borrowed from the brethren , but weakened them by an unjust conclusion , which i own not , nor any of our brethren . this argument also is apt to destroy all the seals ; for there was a church of visible regenerate persons , and of such as by faith saw christs day in abrahams house , gen. . and as yet neither was there circumcision , nor passeover , nor baptism : will it hence follow , that baptisme is essentially no seal of regeneration , nor of any covenant or covenant-grace , because covenant , covenant-grace , visible membership , and all these were before either circumcision or baptism ? but sacred signs are seals of graces and priviledges going before these signs , both in time and nature . circumcision so shall essentially be no seal of the covenant , nor of the righteousness of faith , contrary to gen. . . rom. . . for there was a people visibly in covenant , and abraham was righteous before that circumcision was instituted . but nothing follows , but onely baptism doth not seal our union with christ , and solemn entry into his church-visible , until the lord institute water and sprinkling therewith , and stamp them by his divine authority , to seale these graces and priviledges . chap. xxii . whether profession makes a member of the church visible . so mr. h. pag. . for the better understanding of the question , church-right to membership , and to ordinances and seals must be considered . . as it is in , and referred to the professor himselfe ; and then the question is upon what ground may the man himself challenge a room in the visible house , and the seals : now profession , as profession is not a ground , for then a man should be formally made a visible member , and be fed as one of the flock , and be externally called ( which are finaliter , and in themselves saving mercies ) because he professeth his desire to be fed , and to have the gospel sent unto him . but . there is no such word nor promise : ( do this , and profess so and so , and you shall be made a visible member . ) . to have right true and real to membership and to ordinances , is to be called of god in a church-way , from sin to grace and glory . so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the church-visible , and the visibly called , are the same almost . now no man hath right , true and real to membership and seals , and to be called of a god in a church-way by the preached gospel , because he professeth that he desires to be called ; but the whole right and ground here is the lords free grace , sending the gospel to whom he will , deut. . . deut. . , . psal. . , . acts . , , . acts . , , . nor hath it a shadow of right in scripture , that macedonia and corinth hath church-right to the gospel , and to be a church , and to be the called of god , rather then other people , bythinia especially , at this time , because so corinth shall profess the gospel , before ever they hear the gospel ; but here the lord hath mercy upon whom he will. but . when the gospel is come to a people , if the question be , what gives to this man , not to this man true real right to membership , and ordinances , and seals , so as he may claim them before god and not sin : the meritorious right is christs death , the condition upon his part is faith ; hence visible profession as such cannot give right : for then might magus say , i have right to a room in the visible church , and to baptism , because i am a visible saint : for that is an untruth . . if god forbid hypocrisie , and taking a room in the visible church , and taking the covenant in the mouth , and receiving the seals , when the party hates to be reformed , and eats and drinks unworthily , then cannot profession as profession give a man right true and real to room in the church , and to the seals : but the former is true , ps. . , , . isa. . , . matth , . . matth. . . . profession is in order to the rulers and members of the church , which have hand according to their place , either formal or tacit consent , to receive in members , here especially to be considered . and here our brethren mistake the question ; for when the question is , what profession is required in such as the rulers may without sin admit to membership and ordinances ; we say a profession morally true , not real conversion judged to be real by men . now this confession or profession do●h not make a church-member , but declare a church-member , and it only declares him to the conscience of the rulers , that they sin not in admitting such : but declares him neither to have right before god nor to his own conscience . yea , for all this profession magus sinned in being baptized , magus usurped , and hath no true and real right , no not ecclesiastick , except in a most unproper sense ; the church hath right and command to receive him to membership and seals , but he sins in occupying room in the house , and receiving seals , having no true right to membership and seals : it is scarce excusable ( but it is among that godly mans errors ) that mr. h. saith , graceless men , as ishmael and esau , have the best right that can be to ordinances , to wit , the command of god. but ah ! magus and such comedians have no command to receive the seals , but conditional commands , if they believe ; which they never do . i return to mr. h. mr. h. profession most frequently is a publick acknowledgement to the truth delivered in the word , and our resolution to persist in the maintenance thereof , so it is used by distinction from practise ; for an excommunicate person may so profess , yet it gives no formality to membersh●p . . profession is larger , and includes a suitable-carriage void of scandalous courses . . as it must not be too narrow , so it must not be too b●●ad ; though one hold some errours out of infirmity , as iustification by passive obed●ence onely — this hinders not , but he may profess the faith savingly . ans. here be three notations of the word , no scripture for any one of them . the fi●st is most frequent ( saith he ) and includes a resolution to maintain : but resolution , as such , is a secret heart purpose ; and profession must be visible . . profession ( saith he ) is yet larger , and includes a suitable carriage of life . say stricter , the species is not larger than the genus , or that which is as genus ; man is not larger than animal a living creature . . profession with some errors , should have been more warily delivered , left it set up toleration , the ruine of the one true religion . . profession , in scripture , is rarely distinguished from practise ; when it is differenced from it , then it s condemned , tit. . . they profess they know god , but in works they deny him . jam. . . what doth it profit , if a man say , he hath faith , & c ? for tim. . . & . . heb. . . & . . & . matth. . . & . . it includes a holy practise . now mr. h. saith , the pinch of the question is , whether such as walk in a way of profaneness , though otherwise professing and practising the things of the gospel , have allowance from christ , or may be counted fit matter , according to the terms of the gospel . but sure this is a pinch of a question made of contradictions , whether one walking in a way of profaneness , and yet not walking in a way of profaneness , but professing and practising the things of the gospel , have allowance to be the fit matter of a visible church . a strange pinch ! . mr. h. takes allowance from christ by his command , to be all one with being accounted fit matter of the visible church by the rulers ; for the account must be of men , and the allowance of them as fit matter must be of christ. but the truth is , there is no pinch of a question , who a●e they that are fit matter of themselves in se & in●●insece , who have due right to ordinances , seals ? we say , onely sincere real professors . but the question is , who are fit matter , having right to ordinances in the account of rulers and the church , whether they have true right or not ? . allowance from christ is ambiguous : for if it be referred to the rulers , as mr. h. seems to take them both for one ; then the question must be , whether christ allow and command rulers to admit such as walk in a way of profaneness , that is , visible hypocrites , to be fit matter , having right to the holy things of god ? that was never a question to either side , whether christ command to cast pearls to known swine ? or the allowance or command of christ may be referred to the so walkers ; then the question is as blasphemous , to wit , whether doth christ allow and command men to be gross hypocrites , and to take his covenant in their mouth ; though they hate to be reformed . mr. h. profession conceived according to the compass of the ●●rm●n explication ( adde a causal power with baptism too ) doth make a member of the visible church , and a member of all congregations in all the earth ; the expressions of mr. r. load me thus to c●nceive his meaning . as. then mr. h. granteth , that his own conceptions , not my words ( for he ought to have cited them ) lead him . . i own no such explication of mr. h. as i have shewn . mr. h. profession lawful of the whole truth hindereth mem bership ; as suppose one believe mistakingly , all the churches on earth are ill gathered , he dare not be baptized and made a church-member : if therefore profession hindereth membership , as this doth , then is cannot constitute membership . answ. i retort this argument ; forbearing of all known sins , and practise of known duties cannot constitute membership , as mr. h. saith . for suppose one to be admitted a chruch member , in a wicked mistake fall in an act of adultery , and to cover that in a known act of murther , then cannot practise more than profession constitute this visible saint a member : for , that which opposes and hinders baptizing , and so kinders the formality of membership , that doth not help forward membership . so mr. h. but such a practise blemished with adultery and murther , hindereth both one to be baptized , and to be made a member , for this practise will cast a man out ; ergo , it shall hinder him to be admitted a member . so also mr. h. ibid. arg. . pag. . so here , an erroneous profession of a seeker , denying either baptism , lawful ministery , or right churches to be on earth , until the apostles arise again , constitutes not membership , but hinders it . ergo , a sound profession gives not formality of membership , it follows not though mr. h. conclude nothing against me . mr. h. that which giveth membership to a party who had it not before , that can restore membership when he hath lost it . but this cannot restore membership . now if profession and bap●ism were sufficient to do the deed , baptism remaining the same as before his excommunication , and now his profession being renewed , there is the whole formality of membership , which is false . ans. . the argument supposeth that i make bare profession separated from a non-scandalous practise , the formal cause of membership : but if one renew his practical profession by repentance , he is fit to be re-admitted a member . . there may remain in one excommunicate person , . sound profession . . evidences of saintship in d●vid excommunicate , except in the matter of uriah . . a real purpose to adhere to the church-covenant ; yea , and all the three remain , and holy and blameless walking beside in a dissolved member . ergo , the church-covenant gives not formality to membership ; but the conclusion is contrary to mr. h. therefore the minor is denied in the sense that mr. r. holds of real profession , as is before declared . mr h. that which gives actual existence to a member , must give interest to the whole actually existing , and therefore to some particular congregation , for onely individuals exist ; and since such an individual person is a member , he must have reference to the whole that doth actually exist : and this the general nature doth in the particular congregations onely . ans. what is concluded , is not the present question , but it belongs to what follows . . individuals onely exist firstly , and kindely ; but the common nature of a man exists in peter , in and with the individual , and the nature of a congregation exists in this or that congregation : but the nature of the whole integral church , of which peter is a member , as we shall hear , does no more exist in a congregation , than the whole organick body existeth in the left hand : or the whole body of the element of water exists in a drop of the river euplorates : but the catholick integral visible church , existeth in this or that catholick integral visible church . nor doth that which gives actual existence to be a member , give the same way ex●stence and interest to a totum , a whole integral body ; the thumb hath one way interest of existence to grow in the hand , and another way interest of existence to grow in the body ; and in all the parts of it , it is a member , or part of the hand , and also of the whole body , but the thumb hath no possible interest of existence to grow in the head , in the leg . and so is iohn a near and fixed member of the congregation of boston , and a common and remoter member of the whole integral catholick churches of hartford , of cambridge , of norwich , and of all the congregations on earth : but it follows not , ergo , iohn hath an interest of ex●stence to be fed and to exist at one time in all the congregations on earth ; as the common nature of man , of substantia , corpus , viv●ns , animal , homo , exists in all the individuals at once : it is wilde logick , to put no difference between a whole integral , and the parts ; and whole essential , and the parts subjective ; or species and individuals : so as one integral member may exist at the same place where all the members exist . mr. h. that which equally belongs to all , that can make no particular appropriation to any out rather than to another : if a woman love all christian men with christian affection , she is not therefore a wife to this or that man , but this profession is equal and indifferent , as well to one , and to all , as to another . ans. all is granted ; for we teach not that profession , as profession , makes a man a fixed and a married member of this independent congregation , rather than this : so that it shall be spiritual adultery to partake of church ordinances elswhere : we detest such a comparison destructive to church-communion ; for profession , as profession , declares the man to the rulers to be a church-member in all congregations on earth . it declares ( i say as before ) but does not as a formal cause make a church-member , and it declares he hath right as a citizen of the visible church , that rulers without sin may admit him to ordinances : but profession makes him not a member visible of onely this one congregation ; yea , that one be a fixed member of this congregation , is , . an affirmative command , not binding ad semper . nor . does it tie , but as being a member of the catholick church , which is a confession of christ before men . and . it is of providential conveniency for the more careful feeding , but not of divine institution or marriage tye . chap. xxiii . whether mr. hooker doth concludently refute this which mr. r. holdeth , that he who is a member of one congregation , is also a member of all congregations on earth . . let it be remembred , in what sense i make profession and baptism to have influence in membership . . that i make not peter a member of this congregation onely , and of the whole integral catholick church , or of all congregations on earth , one and the same way , for though the right to christ the head , to ordinances and seals , be one , yet peter is a fixed member of this congregation , a transient member to all other congreg●tions . . he is a proper member , and nearer of this congregation , and a more common and remote member to all ; as the thumb is a nearer and proper part of the hand , and a more common and remote part of the whole organical body ; and richard a near member of norwich , and a more remote and common member of the kingdome of england . . i am constrained to take in some arguments transposed by mr. h. that were in the former chapter . mr. h. to be a member of the cathol●ck church firstly to a whole , which a man neither did , nor can see nor do any homage to , nor receive any influence or direction from for government , is a sublimated imagination . ans. this makes the doctrine of oecumenick councels holden by calvin , melancthon , luther , whitaker , and all the learned divines in the christian world , to be a sublimated imagination , and mr. cotton his associate to be sick of the same imagination ; and the decrees , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the apostles and elders , acts . . by which the churches were established , ver . . to have no influence of government upon the churches . . it must be a sublimated imagination , that the whole churches of jews and gentiles , who could not see the faces of all the apostles , nor do any homage to them , nor receive any direction ( except in their writings , which yet may be ) from them , should be governed by the apostles ; and it must be an imagination , that the apostles were members of the catholick integral churches , and never fixed and married members of the single congregation : and could every one of the ten thousands of the congregational church of ierusalem , as our brethren will have it be , be governed by the whole church , except they had seen the faces of all the thousands that governed them ? mr. h. if a man that is a member of one congregation , ●e also a member of all congregations on earth ; then he can perform the duties of a member to all : but that is impossible . ans. the duties we owe to members of the integral catholick church , are , . common and personal , as church-praying , church-praising , church-fasting for the evils of sin or judgement , isa. . . psal. . . eph. . . & . . rom. . . cor. . they being members of the same body with us , eph. . , , , , . and their good or hard condition being known to us , ( which say also they are one visible body with us ) these duties are possible and necessary , if the meaning be , of occasional duties of love , not in word but in deed , as giving of alms to brethren , i judge of all congregations beside our own : iam. 〈◊〉 . if a brother or a sister be naked , &c. of what ever congregation on earth , where providence cast your lot to be , ioh. . . if , i say , he mean such duties of members to forreign church-members , as church-members , be impossible , i much differ from mr. h. it is contrary to cor. . , , . gal. . . and the like i say of duties , of occasional comforting , rebuking , warning one another , even in order to church-members , and church-duties ; they are this way impossible , that physically i cannot be in all places to discharge these duties . but to fetch an argument as watery , i might say , a man in musc●via cannot be to a scottish-man a neighbour , whom he is to love as himself . a man in morpeth cannot be a fellow-member both with another m●n in morpeth , and with another english subject who dwelleth four hundred miles from him whom he never saw , not can see . why , its impossible he can discharge the duty of neighbour-love to the one that he never saw , nor possibly can see ; or that of a fellow-subject of england , as toward the other : yea , by this its impossible one can discharge the duties of personal watching over five thousand members of the congregation ( as they say ) of ierusalem ; for while as he watches over one , he must neglect fourscore of hundreds , and above . . what liberty and power a man hath in one particular congregation as a member , he hath the same in all , because he is a member every where : then he hath power in choosing the officers , and in maintaining them ; and these officers must be sought in casting him out . ans. what liberty and power a man hath jure , habitu , actu primo , by the right as a visible professor in one congregation as a member ; that same moral right of saintship ( taken in a right sense ) he carries about to all congregations on earth , whithersoever he comes , as is clear by letters of recommendation ( which i said , and its never answered , onely declare , but give no new right to church priviledges ) which our brethren give to members , by which they have right to the seals in other congregations . but it follows not , what liberty and power a man , as a fixed , nearer and proper member hath in his own congregation , that same liberty and power he hath actu secundo , and that he may actually exercise in all congregations ; for to the actual exercise of it , is required the actual knowledge of him , and his right and qualification , that they with him , and he with them , may act in a church-way , in other congregations and forreign churches : and also he cannot act with that power in all congregations , as in his own ; not because he hath not the power in habit , and actu primo , but both he cannot orderly exercise it , and without scandal of usurpation , until he first evidence he hath such power ; and also because he cannot physically be in many places at once : as a citizen of london hath power and liberty to do the duties of a subject of england , such as to save the life of a subject , and to apprehend a publick robber that waftes the countrey , in all cities and places in england ; but its impossible that he can be physically present in all places of england , where his help may be useful for the performing of these duties . . nor will it follow that he should give hire to any but to his own personal feeders , from whom he receiveth the benefit of feeding , gal. . . cor. . tim. . , . . it is also an untoward consequence , therefore be cannot be cast out of one congregation , unless the officers of all others did cast him out : for that is physically impossible , god will have the catholick integral church to purge it self in its parts , and it s no more necessary nor convenient that the whole integral church should , or possibly can pass an actual sentence for the casting out of every person , than all england can convene in parliament for the passing sentence upon every english subject guilty of felony , murther , sodomy , blasphemy , drunkenness , swearing , &c. and all guilty of these faults , are both members of either cities , counties , or shires , and also subjects of the kingdome of england : and the argument is as strong in the one as in the other , even suppose great-britain were but one kingdome . nor . will it follow , that a guilty person can require the convening of the whole integral catholick church to judge his cause : for he can have no moral right , but such as all in case of scandal have , why he should more decline the churches judging , than their feeding by the word . now since such a convening of all officers to judge every scandal , is physically unpossible , it is not to be thought that christ hath given a moral liberty to all delinquents without exception , to appeal to all the officers on earth ; for the infinite wisedome of god gives not moral power to physical impossibilities , that are physically destructive to edification . mr. h. if he that is the member of one congregation be a member of all , i cannot see but of necessity it must follow , that one particular congregation must be another , ephesus must be smyrna , and smyrna must be thyatira : for where there be the same individual members , there be the same whole integral body ; and the ground is undeniable from received rules : integrum est totum cui partes sunt essentiales . therefore the same members carry the same essence to the whole . i assume , there be the same individual members of all the particular congregations : for if one particular professor be a member of every particular congregation , then all particular professors must be so ; and so all of them members of one particular congregation , and so of every one . hence there being the same members of every particular congregation , every particular congregation is the same : and thence it will follow , that ephesus is smyrna , and smyrna to be thyatira . hence when smyrna is destroyed , yet smyrna remains . ans. it s a pity to black paper with such wind-mills . where there be the same individual members , there must be the same individual whole or totum integrale . all the individual members of a mans body , either similar parts , flesh , and blood , and bones ; or the organs , eyes , ears , feet , hand , and all the rest taken together , as united , are the whole organical body of man ; and so all the congregations on earth , taken together , are , and make up the whole integral catholick visible church , existing in all the kingdomes and states of the earth . but what follows ? therefore the hand is the foot , where there be the same proper and nearer fixed members , the thumb and the little finger of the hand , and also the same common and remoter members ( the same thumb & little finger ) of the whole organical body , there is the same individual integral whole , so as the one member is affirmed of another , the thumb is the little finger , and the little finger is the thumb : for all the organs are members proper , the eyes , ears , nose , of the head , the fingers of the hand , the toes of the feet , and all the rest , arms , legs , belly , shoulders , and all these same members are common and remote members of the whole body : just as peter is a fixed and near member of this congregation , and also a common and remoter member of the whole integral catholick church . and as all the citizens of london are fixed and near members of london , and proper parts thereof , and yet common and remote members and subjects of england . hence by mr. h. his own argument , where there be the same individual members , thereof necessity must be the same whole integral : so i assume ( saith he . ) but there be the same individual members of all the particular congregations . i assume also , iohn , richard , thomas , citizens of london , of york , are all in their very individual natures , individual subjects of england . ergo , london must be york , and york must be london ; and iohn citizen of london , must be richard citizen of yo●k . and contrary . again i assume , the same individual thumb , and individual little finger and toes , and individual eyes and ears , are all members of the hand , or congregation of fingers , of the feet and society of toes , &c. and they are also common members of the whole organical body . therefore by mr. h. his logick , the thumb must be the little finger ; and when the thumb is cut off , the thumb remains . let mr. h. or any for him , answer mr. h. his sophism . . mr. h. makes an assumption , but could not infer any conclusion , nor frame a syllogism . this connexion is never proved , there are the same members , common , remote , of every particular congregation , or of all the congregations on earth , therefore every congregation is the same , and ephesus must be smyrna . put mr. h. or any man for him , to prove the connexion , and they must be silenced ; these congregations must be the same , and the one must be affirmed of the other , which have the same individual persons to be common members to both . nothing more false : and so mr. h. his received rules vanish . for say that all citizens of york were citizens of london , and citizens of london were also citizens of york , and they had the same common laws , city-priviledges , the same rules , it follows onely they differ not in nature , but in number and accidents ; but no logick can infer , erg● , york is london , and london is york ; or that the one is affirmed of the other , as ephesus is said to be smyrna . so nothing follows , but onely ephesus and smyrna are not churches different in essence and nature , but onely in number , which is that which we teach . mr. h. mr. r. yieldeth , that one church hath not power over another ; but if one , who is a member of one congregation , be a member of all , then the members of this . province may send messengers to the synod of another province . answ. mr. h. would do well to prove his deductions ; for common members as common members send not commissioners , nay , nor one church to another : but as god is the god of order , so such a church in an association do send to a larger church . mr. h. it is folly to seek differences ( saith mr. r. ) between congregations , from a chu●ch covenant , which is common to all congregations . it is true ( saith mr. h ) particular congregations , and church covenants differ not in essence and nature ; but there is a real difference from this church in another church , in their specificating , and individual formality . the rule of old was , genus cum forma constituit speciem . answ. it is great folly to seek differences essential , when all congregations agree in the last specifick difference : this congregation and that church differ only in accidents , except mr. h. shew us essential and specificating differences between one christ the head , one faith , one baptism , one hope of glory , one lords supper , one bread in all churches , eph. . , , , . cor. . . cor. . . one power of binding on earth , one and the same body , matth. . , , , . ioh. . , . cor. . , . from the same christ , the same faith , the same baptism , &c. in another congregation : and when the church of the jews , and the church of the gentiles differ only as two sisters , cant. . . and in regard of age ( which is a meer accident ) as mother and daughter , isa. . , . isa. . , . cant. . . it is folly for mr. h. to trouble us with new logick , such as the specificating formality in peter , for that is no new degree of essence in peter which was not in man , but the same contracted to the individual differences of time , place , figure , &c. let mr. h. shew a specifick difference between christ and the seal in this and in that congregation . . that genus cum forma constituit speciem , is neither old nor new rule , the true rules are genus & differentia constituunt speciem & compositum metaphysicum , and materia & forma constituunt compositum se● corpus physicum . . whereas mr. h. saith that this and this congregation and this church-covenant differ really ut res & res , and if they differ in accidents , these must be either common or proper ; it 's answered . . mr. cotton and mr. hooker are not two new kinds and species of pastors , because officers of divers congregations , and iohn and peter members of the same congregation differ ut res & res ; and so in the church of ierusalem there shall be five thousand species and kinds of members , five thousand kinds of church-covenants , of baptisms , of lords suppers , of new species of rights to the seals in one single congregation . for they differ really ut res & res , when as they differ only in number : and it were good that mr. h. had expressed to us , what be these proper accidents by which congregations differ among themselves . it is true the particular combination gives distinct being to the classis ; but it gives not a being distinct in nature and essence , but only in individual properties from the being of other classis . mr. h. how comes it this church hath power over this person , which another church hath not , but from some speciall engagement ? ans. it is from no marriage engagement , but from providential conveniency ; the wise lord seeing it physically impossible , that the whole catholike church so numerous can be fed in the same field , by the same men , therefore he divided them in sundry little flocks , over which the shepherds combined , have power not as married husbands but as meer servants . mr. h. the peculiar and individual formalities of engagements difference all voluntary covenants ; should a man say , i am a master of servants , therefore thou art my servant : servant-covenant is common to all , there is only a difference in number and some accidents : a people might say to a pastor of another congregation , the covenant between pastor and people is common to all , and makes no difference , but in number and accidents ; therefore thou art our pastor : that a man should be a general husband to all women , and a woman a general wife to all men , because marriage-covenant is common , seems folly ; we are content to bear the charge of folly . answ. . i am far from charging folly on these godly men , but weakness should appear in the argument , if mr. h had framed an argument thus ; if all covenants of master and servant , of husband and wife , agree in essence and nature , and differ in number and accidents only , then may a master claim all men on earth to be his servants , and then may a husband claim all women on earth to be his married w●ves . this is most false , and not proved by mr. h. for the just contradiction is true . if covenants between master and servant , between husband and wife differ in number ; then must a master make a covenant in number different with servants ; one with this servant , and another covenant different in number from that , with another ; or then he can claim neither the one nor the other for his servant , because covenants between master and servant , are all of the same common nature : nor because abraham married sarah , and all marriage-covenants are of the same essence and nature , can abraham claim hagar and another third woman , and a fourth for his wives , and except he have a marriage covenant with hagar different in number from the marriage-covenant with sarah , and a third marriage-covenant with the third different in number , he cannot claim any of them for his wives : for hagar may say , though all marriage-covenants be of the same essence and nature ; yet because abraham never made a marriage-covenant with me by name , which is essentially required in all covenants of that kind , he is not my husband , nor am i his wife . so a people cannot say to a pastor of another congregation , thou art our fixed , proper pastor , obliged to reside with us , and to imploy thy labours ordinarily upon us only , except they had particularly chosen him by name ; but this will not hinder , but all elections and covenants with pastors , as fixed and ordinary labourers with them , are of the same essence and nature , and differ only in number and accidents ; nor can this hinder but a pastor of another congregation is a pastor habitu and actu primò , to all congregations on earth , and no married husband to that congregation : though it be physically impossible , and contrary to reason , to say he can be a fixed , proper chosen pastor to all the congregations of the earth ; for fixedness and election of the people is not of the essence of a pastor . chap. xxiv . the arguments of mr. r. against the church-covenant are vindicated . mr. h. relation as such is not a foundation of a covenant , when twins are born , or brethren and sisters near to other in time . the duties issuing there from have their rise and power from the impression of the rule of nature , such relations may be multiplied without a covenant . answ. this destroys your church-covenant , for many in sister-churches , men and women , are born over again , and made visible members of the body of christ , and made fellow citizens to them that are far off , and near to the whole houshold of god , jewes and gentiles , eph. . , , . eph. . , , , . cor. . . cor. . , . heb. . , . and the duties issuing hence rise from no covenant soddering the members together in one single flock : for they belong to many flocks , but only from the rule of renewed nature . therefore mr. h. is obliged to prove , if there be a necessity of a voluntary covenant , that visible saints of two congregations now agreeing to be fellow-members of a third congregation , are now more brethren by mat. ● . then before , and have more one faith , one baptism , one visible head christ , one hope , do more eat one bread , cor. . then before ; are more , yea , now , and never till now , by a positive institution and command obliged to church covenanting , to church watching one over another , whereas by this way they were never visible members , nor visible fellow-citizens before . and . so paul hath been less accurate then our brethren in the visible oneness of brethren . . there must be no visible brotherhood , nor church oneness , but by ordinary meeting within the walls of the same house . and . this covenanting either implicit or explicit must be of as great necessity as a visible church on earth . mr. h. the covenant once made by mutual agreement of parents , may be communicated to the seed , without their consent , deut. . . a minister is a minister to children born of parents , who have elected him to be their minister , and they are within the covenant , by vertue of that covenant which their parents made . answ. . nothing then makes children within the covenant of grace visibly , but your congregational covenant . but sure israels seed by deut. . , , , &c. and gen. . . act. . . were born in visible covenant with god , and they knew not any such congregational watching over one another . . the seed of dissolved members , visible saints , are then without any sin in parents and children ( to speak comparatively ) born pagans , but the scripture teacheth us of no losing of covenant-right , but by sin , either of the parties themselves , or of their parents . . how are then children of covenanting parents born church members ; yet , when come to age , if they cannot evidence their regeneration holden all their life , for no church-members are debarred from the lords supper , living and dying pagans ? are ministers , because of their covenant , ministers to pagans ? . the scripture teacheth that parents oblige the children to the gospel-covenant , deut. . gen. . but no scripture teacheth that parents lay bands of oath and vow of god to be visible members of only ( for example ) the congregation of boston , of only hartford ; for look what covenant obligation lies upon the parents which is to that congregation by name only , the like must lie upon the children . mr. h. among such who by no impression of nature , no providence , or appointment of god , or reason , have power each one over another , there is a necessity of a free engagement by consent , as between prince and people , husband and wife , master and servant , and the covenant being once made , there needs no new covenant to the exercise of the duties belonging to that relation . ans. the vow in baptism , and the gospel-covenant professed by me , without any new engagement , obligeth me in all churches i am in , to be my brothers keeper , and watch for his soul , otherwise i may make this count , lord , i was not obliged to any church-watching over my brother , but my congregational brother by mat. . but . was he not thy brother before thou wast inchurched into one congregation with him ? ( shall the lord say . ) . wast thou not to eat the same bread with him before as then ? by cor. . . secondly , there is no need of engagement to watch congregationally over all with whom thou eatest the lords supper , except thou being so journer enter in oath to every congregation , and break it in the morrow . thirdly , the covenant of prince and people , husband and wife hath nothing to do with this , except the nearer visible oneness , brotherhood , &c. of which i spoke , be cleared from scripture ; and m. h. prove that peter is tied by oath to that only pastor and flock , as subjects to one only soveraign . mr. h. the covenant of grace may be taken in the narrowest acception ( believe and live ) so it is inward and invisible between the soul and god. but if you take it in the breadth , as it includes whatever is warranted by the gospel , so it is visible and includeth the church-covenant , and its ordinance of the gospel , but not properly the covenant of the gospel if the churches be dissolved through persecution , they are not obliged to the duties of confederacy . ans. ( believe and live ) is not the narrowest , nor the invisible covenant , but the summe of all duties given to all the visible church , ioh. . , . ioh. . , . ioh. . , . rom. . . . if this be a gospel ordinance , give us scripture for it . . dissolved members are never loosed from church-warning , comforting , rebuking , otherwise they were not to gaine their brethren . . christ by no hint or shadow , layes the duty of gaining a brother upon our membership with single congregations , a thing of order and providential necessity ; but upon brotherhood , mat. . if thy brother trespass against thee , &c. now he is as near my brother who is of another congregation , or a dissolved member , as he who is my congregational brother . . the inclosed gainable trespassing bretheren within the pinfold of a single congregation , seem to make onely the congregation the visible kingdom of christ ; the scripture teaching , nations , the kindreds and kingdoms of the world to be his , rev . . rev. . , , . ps. . , . ps. . , , , . ps. , . isa. . , , , &c. it is true , christ exerciseth his ministerial power as king in congregations , yea , and in synods also , saith mr. cotton . . the oneness of his visible body is larger then a congregation , cor. . . cor . , , &c. mr. h. that a minister swear an oath of fidelity ( saith mr. r. ) to the flock ; a father , a master to discharge duties to children and servants is lawful , but to tye the essence of a minister , father , master to this oath , so that he is no minister before he thus swear , is to lay b●nds where christ hath laid none , and will-worship . ans. the instance of a father , because it results upon a rule of nature , without any free consent required , is not to the purpose ; the other two cuts the throat of mr. r● . cause ; can any charge another to be his servant without mutual engagement ? that which makes a man a pastor to this people , is the free choice of the people ; we do not make the swearing to do our duty , to be our covenant ; a witness ties himself by oath to tell the truth in a court , here is no covenant between man and man at all . those are to be distinguished . . an agreement of persons to combine and associate . . the doing of these duties . . the swearing they will do them ; the first is the form of the corproation ; the other two may be done after they be combined . ans. . the instance brought by me is as well of a moral father , as a natural father , and his either agreeing by promise or oath to the people , makes him not a pastor , ( a pastor to them is another thing ) nor doth the election of the people make a pastor , the ordination of the elders by prayer makes him a pastor , act. . . tim. . . tim. . . . the being a pastor to the people doth not make a pastor , for it is but actus secundus , the exercise of his calling , not the essence of the minister . . the man doth tender the lords supper , which is a specifick and proper act of a pastor , and that warrantably , to these who are of another congregation , and never chused him for their pastor . . the other two hurt not the truth ( i desire not to plead mine own cause ) a man is made a servant to a master by mutual agreement , true : ergo a minister is made an embassador , pastor , and servant of christ by the election of the people ; it follows not : for were he a servant in relation to the people onely , this were something ; but the peoples chusing of him hath not any influence at all in the essence of a pastor . . my argument proves , that swearing , as it includes a free agreement to the duties of a father ( moral ) or officer , or master , or pastor , doth not make the man a father , a master , a pastor , especially when the man is father , servant of christ , and pastor habitu , and actu primo , to all the churches on earth , before he agree to be father and pastor to this congregation , as i thus illustrate , a free city appoint four men fearing god to be rulers , or bailiffes to them , the city divides it self into four quarters : the first quarter agreeth with such a man to rule them : the next quarter agreeth with the second to rule , and so do the rest . now no man can say this first quarter made the man a magistrate , for the whole city made all the four of private men to be publick magistrates , and quarters by agreement did only appropriate their labours to them . so titio covenants with a mason , with a gardener to build him a house , and plant him a vineyard ; yet this agreement makes neither the one a mason , nor the other a gardener , for they were such before : nor doth the sick mans chusing of such a physician to cure him , make the man a physician . any man knows that the people call and chuse epaphroditus , not that they may make him a gracious and an able minister , but because they discerned him to be such , therefore they chused him . . a witness who swears to tell the truth , engageth covenant-wise to tell the truth , though the engagement be put upon him by the command of the judge . mr. h. neither the incestuous corinthian , cor. . , . ( saith mr. r. ) nor these . act. . nor samaria , nor any planted churches of ephesus , acts . of corinth , acts . berea , philippi , thessalonica , rome , give any hint of a church-covenant . ans. the churches forgiving and confirming of their love to the incestuous corinthian , was a receiving of him of new to covenant ; had his profession at large made him a member , he had been a member whether the church received him or not ; or had baptism made him a member , that remaining , he should have been a member ; a disfranchised man is so received by covenant anew to city-priviledges . ans. . nothing is answered to these celebrious samplar-churches planted without this new covenant . . one excommunicate for a particular scandal , as the incestuous corinthian was , retaining some profession , retaineth some membership , and is onely deprived of church-honour , and of some ordinances . . but of baptism before . . the forgiving of that man , may say somewhat to the restoring of him to the priviledges of the covenant of grace , but nothing of a church-covenant . . the civil corporations way of re-admitting disfranchised members , is no binding rule to the church of god. mr. h. there is no word of church-covenant in these places , acts . it follows not , ergo , it is not in the word . ans. the consequence is not valid from particular negatives : but if there be no covenant in any place , where mention is made of planting of churches , it holds well . heb. . . moses ( who in his writings speaks of all sorts of priests ) spake nothing concerning priesthood in the tribe of iudah : ergo , there is no priest of that tribe . and there is no hint in scripture , where the sacrifice of christ is spoken of , that there is any ungodly sacrifice : ergo , ( say our divines ) the sacrifice of the mass is a device of men . so no such covenant is in scripture in framing of churches . mr. h. the solemnity of fasting and praying is onely required at the first founding of a church , acts . where there is onely an addition of members , the stroke on the spirit by the ministery of the apostles was so extraordinary , that they needed no miraculous discerning . ans. . mr. h. may make the reader believe , that i am against fasting and praying , at either planting of , or addition to churches , and therefore divides my argument : for i argue from the want , not of fasting and praying onely , but . no church-covenant was here ; nor . any frequent meeting of the members to be acquainted with the spiritual state one of another ; nor was it possible these things could be in seven hours space . all which they require in founding churches , and so there was no day of fasting kept by the church baptized . . there is an addition , that the christian church was also solemnly founded . mr. h. the●r stedfast continuing was after they were added : ergo , ( saith mr. r. ) that could not make them members . ans. nor lies the argument there from the effect to the cause ; they continued ; ergo , they took themselves engaged to continue . ans. there is no doubt they took themselves engaged by baptism . . did ananias and sapphira either continue stedfastly , or take themselves engaged by church-covenant ? for we now speak of visible actings that agree to church members , as such ; therefore they took themselves to be engaged members , and members to that onely church by a solemn marriage-covenant , is a dream unwritten . mr. h. where there is a solemn baptizing into a church , the person is made a disciple of christ , matth. . . so to be a disciple , is to be ingraffed into the body of christ , and to be made a fellow-heir of the same body , eph. . . that is , of the visible church , joh. . . though many believed in him , yet they would not confess him , or be his disciples . ans. . if confessing , and being a disciple , be one ; and if solemn baptizing make a disciple , as from matth. . and ioh. . mr. h. saith : then . must infants be actual disciples : . actual confessors : . in danger to be excommunicate ; for the jews made such an act , ioh. . . ingraffing in the body is to be made a fellow-heir , and of the same body of iews and gentiles , who were partakers of the promise of christ by the gospel , and fellow-citizens with the saints , and of the houshold of god , built upon the foundation , eph. . . & . . and comprehendeth both the truly believing visible body , and invisible : and when , and who made magus and iudas partakers of the promise of christ by the gospel , and fellow-heirs of the same body ? . did ever man dream that this body is a single congregation , and not that its the great catholick body of iews and gentiles , eph . , . & , , ? mr. h. the people are said to magnifie the apostles , that is , to approve their doctrine , and the goodness thereof , yet there was more required to this church-work , and to b●come a disciple ; and therefore it s added , and the believers were added , i. e. they confessed th●ir sins , and became disciples and followers of that doctrine , and so covenanted for their children : else we cannot reason against the anabaptists , if the converted father was baptized , therefore the children . the place thus expounded is not taken out of our hand . ans. the scope of the place is not to shew the qualification of visible members , but that though satan had made a ●oul breach in the church , by the lying hypocrisie of ananias and sapphira , yet the lord was mighty in the apostles , by the miraculous and righteous smiting of the hypocrites , and other mighty wonders , to the admiration of all , and the terrour of many , acts . , . — , , . and that breach by their death was made up , ver . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , believers were the more added , not to the visible church onely , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to the lord , which was a real addition of real believers , as the same phrase is , cap. . ver . not unlike . . the magnifying of apostles , is spoken of be●ievers who not onely approved their doctrine , but confessed the power of god to be in the apostles miracles , and some fear of god , as calvin saith : oecumenius , they praised that gospel pow●r ; chrysostom , they do not mock , nor threaten , yet they seem , as our interpreters , to be medii homines , not wicked despiser● . . he expounds they were added , i. e. they confessed their sins , and became disciples and followers of that doctrine . but sure , confessing of sins , and professing of the doctrine , if he mean such a following ●s was in magus , it s a hungry exposition of being added to the lord , since it is in many hypocrites that are never added to the lord. . if he mean , that they were practical followers of the apostles doctrine , ( as he must , if he say any thing more than what he said before ) sure , that must be an habitual constant walking with god all their life , and cannot be before they were added , acts . for they were believers , and added the same day , cap. and cap. . nor sayes he any thing for adding of visible members , cap. . but all their life they were added to the lord. and is that the meaning of luke , either cap. . or cap. ? sure , luke sets down the history of men added to the lord at the sight of these miracles . . it s a wonder men are so bold with the scripture ! they were added , i. e. they became disciples , — and so engaged themselves , and covenanted also for their children but did their being added to the church , and to the lord , which certainly , in the sincere part , was real and sound believing , include the swearing of this church-covenant to be watching members married to the onely single congregation of ierusalem , and to no other visible church on earth ? if to dictate be to prove , then we have more than enough of this . . if mr. h. judge that calvin , pet. martyr , beza , ursin , pareus , and our worthies , cannot reason for infant baptism against anabaptists , except thus ; the fathers are married members by church-covenant to one single congregation ; ergo , infants must be baptized : or thus ; the really converted father must be baptized ; ergo , the children ; we have a weak part of it , for this strengthens anabaptists not a little ; for the common arguments both of our brethren and the anabaptists , are , they must be real converts that are church-members , as i have proved . and sure our brethren judge it absurd , that the seal of baptism should be put into a blank , or to a falshood . now since baptism is the seal of our regeneration , either must our brethren put a blank and a falshood ( which the church , who knows not the heart , without sin put upon iudas ) or then with monstrous charity they must believe all baptiz'd infants are regenerate . but the truth is , the inward state of none can be said either a falshood or reality to the church , following the rule of the word in dispensing of ordinances ; for in the like , neither regeneration nor non regeneration can be the object of the churches discerning . also this is to be observed , that christ hath made the sounder part of the visible church , the church in the actual exercise of ordinances . for , . christ never gave a power to erre or to sin to his church visible , or to any part thereof ; as nature gave not a power to the locomotive faculty to halt , but to move : therefore he cannot have given a power to a synod as many , but as proceeding right ; and to members as choosing discerningly , not as erroneously . . those must be the church , to whom the promise is made , they fulfilling the condition , to wit , he must promise his presence to those that are convined in his name . but if the larger part be the church visible , because larger and more numerous to whom the promise is made ; then when the major part err●s , and meets not in his name , christ should be obliged to fulfil the promise to them that fulfil not the condition , and ought not to fulfil the promise to those who meet in his name , and fulful the condition of the promise ; which is abominable : for very often the larger part erres , and meets not in christs name , and the lesser part meets in his name , and shall those who fulfil the condition be defrauded of the blessing promised , because they are fewer ? obj. but so no questions shall be determined in church meetings , for two may say they onely meet in christs name . ans. these are but words : for if they not onely say so , but it be a real truth , and if all the rest erre in that act , these two are onely the visible church , though men judge them turbulent schismaticks . hence , by the way , a word of that necessary and judicious question moved by calvin , matth. . . what ye binde on earth , &c. since the church tolerateth many hypocrites , and absolveth and looseth many who do but counterfeit and fancy repentance , shall we say that such are loosed and pardoned in heaven ? some say , by heaven here is meant the visible church ; and they distinguish between sin and scandal : and therefore that by binding and loosing , here is meant , not forgiveness , or justification , or absolution from the guilt of sin in heaven , or in the court of god , or condemnation for that sin , but onely deliverance from scandal , and the removing of scandal , and admitting of the man into the visible church as a member : suppose his repentance be but hypocritical , yet when the church proceedeth impartially , according to the rule of christ , the sentence is ratifi●d by god , and the man is loosed from the scandal , though not from the sin ; the sin is yet bound before god , because he hath not really repented ; otherwise the church , who knows not heart-actings , and who really repent , who not , though proceeding right according to the rule of christ , should not have the promise of ratifying in heaven what they do on earth , fulfilled to them ; which cannot be said . but taking it for a good observation that calvin hath here , that matth. . christ speaketh of binding and loosing concional , by the word preached ; but here , matth. . he speaketh especially of binding and loosing juridical in the court of the church , by excommunication or absolution from that sentence . in the former consideration the question is easie . no pastor in preaching gospel-promises or threatnings , can binde , but conditionally : if the party do not believe and repent , the mans sin is bound in heaven ; if he do believe and repent , his sin is loosed in heaven . as to the other , we finde in the word no such signification of binding and loosing , in regard of scandal , but they are ever spoken of in regard of sin and the guilt thereof . and therefore . . calvin saith well , that the speech of christ is directed to no other than to those who duly and sincerely do reconcile themselves with the church ; and the lord being willing to comfort trembling consciences , is not setting down a rule for comfo●…g of ●ypocrites : but by the contrary , because hypocrites soldly provoke to the tribunal of god , when for gross scandals they are justly cast out ; our saviour saith , the sentence of excommunication is ratified in heaven . the scripture-rule is for such as obey , and for those who fulfil the condition , non de obliquis . as to the doubt , that the church often absolves such who really repent not , how then can the hypocrite be loosed in heaven , when the lord knows he does but fancy repentance ? ans. two things hère are to be distinguished . . the churches proceeding in the external court , as relating to them , if they impartially , according to the rule of christ , proceed , and be not sudden in re-admitting , but see the incestuous man near swallowed up ( though one mans measure of visible repentance be not the rule to all ) before they confirm their love to him , and forgive him , cor. . suppose his repentance be but counterfeit , or not saving and real , as was that of ahab , yet are they to receive him , and admit him to the ordinances , and the lord ratifies what they do in heaven . as . the lord ratifies philips baptizing of magus ; and the lord approves the servants inviting to the marriage-supper the man that wanted the wedding-garment : for what the lord commands , that he must approve and ratifie in heaven . . what in charitable judgements is praise-worthy , that god also must ratifie in heaven ; yea , it is praise-worthy in the disciples , when they heard christ say , one of you twelve hath a devil , one of you shall betray the son of man ; every one suspected and feared himself ; none of the eleven suspected iudas , but gave him charity . . without this god should not approve the gathering of churches , nor the casting of the draw-net in the sea , nor the sowing of seed upon all sort of grounds , the way side , the thorny , the rocky , the good ground , that the chosen , who are yet in the state of nature , may be brought in , and effectually called . but in receiving in excommunicates , the church would not be sudden . in the ancient church , sacrificers to idols were six years before they were received ; they that defiled themselves with beasts , were debarred from the sacrament thirty years ; adulterers , seven ; women who made away their births , ten years ; such as uncompelled denied the faith , twelve years . what other years burchardus and gratianus have , may be seen . something for edification sure there was here . . there is another thing here , which concerneth the conscience of him who is to be received , and when the church-court applies the sentence to the conscience for his personal pardon , sure whatever satisfaction the people have for removing of the scandal , the sentence of absolution so relating to him , is concional , not properly juridical ; and conditional , not absolute ; and therefore is to be pronounced by the mouth of the church , the pastor , thus : be it unto thee according to thy faith and repentance ; and except the man really repent , his sin is not loosed in heaven . so then , the churches loosing from the scandal is conditional , upon a seen condition of outward repentance morally sincere to the churches apprehension , but they simply and absolutely make him a citizen of the church , and admit him to ordinances , according to the command of christ , both in private and publick church offences , ( if thy brother who offended , repent , forgive him ) but his loosing from the sin or guilt in heaven , is ever conditional , and never absolutely to be pronounced by the pastor , the mouth of the church , who cannot certainly know the condition . hence . the scandal is loosed in earth and heaven ; the church impartially following the rule of christ sometime when the sin remains and is bound in heaven . . the church may say the man is absolutely freed from the scandal , so as the church sins not in receiving him in , if they follow the rule ; but he sins , and the scandal is bound in coming in , if he repent not : and also as to the guilt , he is freed from the sin only conditionally , for the condition of removal of the scandal is seen , and visible : but the condition of the loosing from sin is invisible . . sometime the man is both loosed from the scandal , and from the sin , and every way loosed in heaven and earth , when he both really and visibly repents . . the church should go as near in readmitting a fallen sinner , and loosing him on earth , as they can discern the lords loosing in heaven : the corinthians seem to exceed in this . cor. . . so that contrariwise , ye ought rather to forgive him . . there is more of real saintship required , to receive in again one who hath been once a member and hath fallen , and was cast out , then to admit a member newly come from paganisme . . the larger the means of salvation have been , the greater guiltiness , as the scandal of a christian is greater then the sin and scandal of a sodomite , mat. . . mat. . . mat. , . and therefore the repentance of the one must be more signal and larger then the repentance of the other . . there is not such a measure of marriage-love required of a virgin before she be married , as after she hath been married , and born children to the husband ; nor can any say there is so much knowledge required in a new intrant that knows not the first elements of philosophy , as in one who hath studied seven years . hence . it is utterly false , that as visible saintship and real repentance , as far as can be , is required of one excommunicate , before he can be received in again ; so real visible saintship , as far as can be seen , must be required in members before they be first admitted . but i desire our brethren , if they judge the first receiving into the church a loosing from sin and scandal , as re-admission is , they will teach it me . mr. h. if baptism be the seal ( saith mr. r. ) of our entry in the church , then is not this covenant the formal cause of church-membership . ans. if baptism seal our membership , then it is after membership , and so not the formal cause of it . ans. there is in my argument no word that baptism is the formal cause of our membership . baptism is a seal of our solemn installing in the church ; it 's a seal quoadnos , as state and feising in houses or lands is . mr. h. though children do not covenant personally , yet they are included virtually in their parents , deut. . ans. if mr. h. mean children not born , as the place deut. . doth evince , what is that to the purpose ? we have no question with any , whether unborn children have right to membership , or to baptism , non entis nulla sunt accidentia ; if he mean born infants are but virtual , or potential covenanters , as the seed is a tree in potentia , and no tree actu , so must infants be no actual covenanters , but in potentia only . anabaptists shall thank mr. h. for this , for then they are not actually holy , rom. . . nor actually to be baptized , nor is god actually the god of infants ; but some act is required of them , to lay hold on the covenant . . the kingdom of heaven then is not due to them , nay not a halfe salvation but in potentia . but our saviour pronounced them actually blessed , and said , of such is the kingdom of god , mat. . mat. . . mark . , . yea , as christ cannot bless unborn infants , not can he say , of such is the kingdom of god , if they be covenanters onely in potentia , and be such only . mr. h. this covenant is either the covenant of grace , or different from it . ans. the new covenant is either considered according to the benefit of saving grace given in it , and so this is not the covenant . or . according to the means of grace offered , and so the church-covenant is contained within the covenant of grace , and so the consequence is null . a man may be in the covenant of grace , who is not a church-member , and a man may be a church-member , who is not within the covenant of grace , as magus . ans. it is a doubt to me if mr. h. understand his own distinction of gods decreeing , and commanding will ; for with arminians he saith these are contrary wills . . my argument is this , the church covenant is tither one and the same , or a branch of the covenant of grace , as it offers grace externally to all , to peter and magus , or then it is a different covenant . that it is different mr. h. denies , for then it should not be warranted in the gospel , if it be a part of the gospel-covenant , how can they debar men of approved godliness , and visibly within the covenant of grace from ordinances ? for such are implicitly in this covenant . . some are ( saith m. h. ) in the covenant of grace , that are not church-members , and contrary : true ; but not if they be externally and professedly as israel was , for so to be gods visible people in covenant , is to be gods visible church , acts . . gen. . . rev. . . isa. . . now we dispute whether the church-covenant be not a branch of the covenant of the gospel externally proposed . mr. h. yeelds it is , only he saith , the church-covenant is not the covenant of grace according to the benefits of saving grace given in it : true ; nor is the covenant of grace externally preached , according to which magus and iudas , and all such church-members are in the covenant of grace : the covenant of grace according to the benefit of saving grace given it , to wi● , a new heart , and remission , &c. then this cannot hinder , but when one vowes to duties in baptism , he also vowes he shall acquit himself in all duties of warning , rebuking , gaining to christ persons in all congregations he shall come unto : for sure to be buried with christ in baptism , and to rise again to newness of life , rom. . , . col. . , . gal. . . pet. . . cor. . engages a man , when converted , to strengthen his brethren , to gain others , ps. . , . luk. . . cor. . . and undeniably to gain a trespassing brother , mat. . and it must be commanded in the covenant of grace ; and to exhort another while it is to day , isa. . . isa. . , , . zach. . , . ier. , . and therefore it must be will-worship and unwarrantable , to teach that a visible professor is not called , nor can lawfully gain a trespassing brother , as mat. . until he be inchurched a member to that one congregation , and that he is not to gain to god , and to bring into fellow church-duties the inhabitants of another city , nor in covenant way to exhort one another while it is to day , nor to strengthen one another in church duties of love , while first we be all inchurched , by particular agreement , and covenant to this only congregation . yea , it is the nature ( saith mr. h. ) of all corporations , that one cannot be a member , or free citizen , without the consent of that corporation . ans. if entring the covenant of grace and professed faith in baptism put me not in a state of brotherhood to any , but to the five thousand men , and multitudes beside of the same congregation , acts . . and also acts . . acts . . ( whose faces i never saw , nor can see , to enter this new covenant with them . ) then . all of other congregations , as to the duty of church-gaining , as to me are pagans . . mr. h. must warrant from the word the distinction of christians , and of congregational brethren . . to christs s●cond coming , none can be made my church-brother , though visibly and professedly he have with me one hope of calling , one lord , one faith , one baptism , one god , one father of all , eph. . , , . but one of the same congregation , and that by this new covenant . . he is never my congregational brother , but by this new engagement . nor . of the same visible body with me , notwithstanding of the oneness , eph. . , . but by this . . nor can he eat of one bread with me , contrary to scripture , cor. . . cor. . . and our brethrens way , being not my brother , nor a member of that houshold of faith , eph. . which to mr. h. is only a congregational houshold . . nor should i love him as a visible brother to me , contrary to ioh. . , . nor give him alms , as such , contrary to ioh. . , . ioh. . iam . , . m. h. the word ( saith mr. r. ) teacheth that i should confess christ , walk before god , &c. but that i am under a divine law to swear this covenant which is different from the covenant of grace , in relation to this duty , is no divine law . ans. but to say there is no divine law to necessitate a man to enter into another covenant for marriage , beside the covenant of grace is strange . so a man may take the place , and do the duties of a husband to a woman , and tell her , i have been these many years in the covenant of grace , and there is no necessity to make a mariagecovenant beside . a nimrod might say , the gospel teacheth to pay tribute to princes , and the prince to exact it , and there needs no other covenant between prince and people . ans. the reason is altogether impertinent , for a pastor is no married husband , no monarch to rule over one single congregation only . so when he dispenceth bread and wine in the lords supper to fourty of another congregation , which he may lawfully do , cor. . cor. . . as our brethren teach : the pastor saith , i am no married husband , nor church-covenanting pastor to you fourty forraign members of another congregation , but yet i do the duty of your own sworn , and only husband and pastor to you , in dispensing to you this seal of the covenant , and there is no need of a marriage covenant between you and me . is not this by mr. h. his own doctrine , to quit the argument , when it undoes his own cause , and to say the comparison of husband & wife is blasphemous ? and the like is said of that of prince and people ; for he is no prince nor magistrate to a people which never promised , nor covenanted with him for subjection and obedience : and a covenant is necessary in both these , but a pastor may and doth discharge pastoral acts to these with whom he never entred a marriage-covenant , all our brethren grant . . mr. r. denies not , but there may be a covenant between a fixed and a proper pastor ( to make him fixed and proper , not to make him a pastor ) and this congregation , but that agreement makes neither husband nor prince ; but my argument is , that the covenant of grace gives marriage membership to the man who entereth it , to all congregations on earth , and warrants the sound professor to gaine a trespassing brother in all congregations , without the new fansied marriage , or covenant between him and them . and the covenant of grace entred did this . see and answer my arguments , and prove not to me a marriage-membership with this only congregation , by an asserted comparison , wickedly said . but mr. h. speaks dishonourably of partaking church-ordinances , and seals in another congregation , and from another pastor , when he will have these acts to be adulterous , and traiterous , performed by no husband , but by a strange man , and a forraign usurper and tyrant . mr. h. that of baptisme is removed . ans. the answers of mr. h. are removed . mr. h. the gospel requires me to seek for the help of a godly pastor , and to marry , and not to burn , therefore there is no marriage covenant to make a husband , and such a man a pastor to me . ans. this heedless similitude ever brought to the fields is already removed . . there is a difference between making a man a pastor to me fixed , and making him a pastor simply ; the former i grant , and mr. h. shall gain nothing thereby . . if the gospel bid me pray every where , remember the lords death till he come , gain an offending brother every where , teach , warn , comfort the brethren every where ; ergo i must pray church-ways , partake of seals , &c. at the church of ephesus , of philippi , of rome , &c. without any new engagement , or covenant superadded to the gospel-covenant . chap. xxv . whether a pastor or professor be first a member of the catholick visible church , before he be a member of a single congregation . mr. h. some paradoxes fall from the pen of mr. r. a pastor gifted and called by the church , is a member of the visible church before he be their pastor , though he be a member of no congregation . . that a pastor may have a calling from the church before he be elected by a congregation , and so an individuum vagum , a pastor of all people , and yet of no particular people . but if all the congregations are all the members that all the v●sible church hath , then he that is not a member of a particular congregation , is no member of a visible church , for that which comes not within the number of members is no member ; but all particular congregations are all the members that a visible church hath . ans. that he must be a member of a visible church , before he be the pastor of a single flock is clear . . he must be baptized into one body visible , whether of jews or gentiles , cor. . . for an unbaptized man cannot be a minister . . the qualifications of an elder or watchman , tim. . , , , . tim. . . tit. . , , . and that he be in covenant with god , and visibly holy , and th●● he as well as the deacons , tim. . . may be proved to be such as agree to learned and godly members , who are broken off from membership for no scandal , but through persecution , and pestilence , then it cannot be a paradox , if some that are no members of a single congregation , and so visible professors known to be faithful and able to teach others , as tim. . . and so in covenant visibly , as the visible israel of god , and as gods covenanted nation and kingdom , isa. . , , . rev. . . psal. . , . psal. . . and members of the visibly covenanted people , and church of god , be called to be pastors and elders , except it be said that publick suffering for christ , and affliction only , and not sin make men learned and holy , uncapable to be elders . . that a pastor is made a pastor by ordination , tim. . . tim. . . tit. . , , . acts . by such as timothy , titus , apostles and elders is clear in scripture : and not one word in scripture saith , that unofficed men laid hands upon any to make them elders . nor will it ever follow that a pastor may be ordained , and called a pastor , or an individuum v●gum , and appointed over no certain flock , except that mr. h. prove that we now , when apostles are ceased , do separate the ordination of officers by the presbytery , from the election of the people , and that the presbytery may do as the prelates , ordain a man to be a pastor every where , when as no certain flock calls him ; which we teach not : for ordination only makes a pastor , sola ordinatio , but that ordination is not solitary , and it 's alone , but inseparably joined with an inviting , and chusing , and consenting people . but that consent and choice doth not formally constitute a man an officer , but only appropriate his labours to this consenting people . mr. h. argues here just as the papists do . if we be justified sola fide , by faith only , and not by works ; ergo we are justified by such a faith as is void of all works , and so by a dead faith : we deny the consequence , the man seeth with the eyes only , ergo he sees with the eyes plucked out of the head : the like paradox m. h. imputes to me , if only ordination formally make a minister , ergo ordination now where apostles are not , though separated from election of a certain flock , makes a lawful minister in a setled church-state , it follows not : indeed in some cases , as hereafter i shall clear , only ordination of officers makes a lawful minister . nor is it here as mr. h. imagines in the case of marriage ; for marriage-covenant makes both a man a husband , and a husband to this woman only , and to no other : but election of the people makes not a man a minister , but only appropriates his ministerial labours to this flock fixedly . . not is that any thing but a fansied contradiction , he that is not a member , inchurched and married to one only particular congregation ( for so is mr. h. his sense ) he is not a member of the catholick visible church ; for presbyterian members are so neither members one way nor another . . apostles and members dissolved are not fixed members of a single congregation , and yet members they must be of the visible church catholick : sure it is no paradox , that the apostles are such members , for they had right to all the seals in all congregations ; ergo , they must by this reason be members and no members : the like may be said of godly professors so journers , of these baptized by iohn baptist , matth. . by peter , act. . by paul , act. . for if we say that professors are only members of a particular congregation , then we confine a brother to be gained only to one congregation , let all the rest perish , they are not my brethren . . to deny men to be members of the catholick visible church , is to confine all the church-blessings , and church-prayers , church-comforts , church-faith in church-hearing , church-partaking of seals to the one only congregation whereof i am a member , for in all other congregations whereof i am no member , there is no assembly-glory , nor no assembly comfort promised , isa. , . no assembly , o● church-protection , and church-leading from a cloud by day , and the shining of a flaming fire by night , no joy in the publick sanctuary , ps. . , , . ps . , , , . isa. . , . no comfort in a church-way through ●ion in which the fool shall not erre , isa. . . no more comfort to me , who am not a member of that flock , then to the heathen and the eunuch ; for i have no more a place there then the heathen : contrary to isa. . , , . nor have i interest in church-holiness , zach. . , . and the sanctuary beauty , ps. . . ps. . . which the angels desire to learn by the church , eph. . . pet. . . cor. . . more then if i were excommunicate by mr. h. his way . . consider if this be not a judaizing , and a confining of all these spiritual priviledges , and glorious church-comforts , worship , and church prayer once confined to bithel , to the temple , kings . , . dan. . . which christ hath made common , and excepts of in all places , ioh . tim. . . rev. . . to one single congregation , whereof i am a member . . it s against the nature of the seals , that is , our union by spiritual ingraffing into one body , cor. . . and we all eat one bread , cor. . . our communion in love with all the saints is here sealed , and the broken bread seals the body of christ broken , not for one man , and for onely one single congregation , but it seals christs love to the redeemed world , ioh. . . ioh. . . to the whole redeemed , saved , sanctified church , eph. . , , . ioh. . . & . , . for the catholick bride , not a limb , a single congregation is the complete object of christs intent . . the complete and adequate matter of his work and soul-travel on his incarnation , dying , rising , ascending , interceding , giving of the holy spirit , luke . . & . . ioh. . . tim. . . rev. . , . heb. . . ioh. . . isa. . . . the onely complete recipient , and principal subject of all the gracious and saving actings of christ , of church-callings , of the promises , covenant preached . . by this the congregational body may say , i have no need of thee . obj. yea , i have materially need of thee for counsel , rebuke . ans. but is body-need , organ-need , and church-need that paul speaks of , cor. . . peters body hath no organ-need of pauls feet to walk , for he hath two feet of his own ; but he may have physical need of another kinde : so the congregation hath need of heathens to rebuke them , but this is no church-need . . paul , cor. . would have no schism in the body , but would have the churches to have the same church-care one of another , and not to be divided in one faith , one baptism , one church-head , one church-gospel , &c. which must be , if i be not a member of all congregations . . we are to suffer one with another , rejoyce one with another , but no church-feeling is required of me , if i and those of another congregation be not of the same visible body , by vertue of the fellow-feeling between the members , the apostle cannot speak of a natural compassion : for humanity will teach christians to mourn at the destruction of heathens , but they are not for that of the same body of christ with us . but as all these prove that there is a visible body of m●●y congregations , and so that there is a catholick integral visible body . so we thus argue : if the church-actings , and sufferings , and rejoycing condition of those of associated churches be visible and audible to us , no less than the church-actings , and sufferings , and rejoycing condition of the single congregation , whereof i am a member : then must the one be a visible body and church as well as the other . but the latter is true . the proposition is clear : for if the properties and accidents be visible , the subject is visible ; because this is the formal reason why a congregation is visible , for we see not the spirits and faith in the hearts of the single congregation , but we see their profession in single persons , and their meetings in one place , for hearing , praying , praising and partaking of the seals . now all these we see in three or four or six meetings , or conventions of the churches associated , which shall but make one numerous congregation of ten thousand , as the dissenting brethren said of the church of ierusalem : and we see them severally meet , as we see the church of our own single congregation . as for their poverty , sickness , imprisonment , and the sufferings of these of the same congregation of which we are members , we see not these in church meetings , but in single members , and these must be visible in many congregations , as the famine in iudea for which paul made a collection , as well as in one . from all this its clear , that it is false which mr. h. saith , that all particular churches are all the members that the church visible hath . for apostles , godly sojourners , dissolved members , are not members of congregations , not are they congregations themselves , and yet they are members of the visible integral catholick church . chap. xxvi . other arguments against the church-covenant are vindicated . mr. h. mr. r. plainly affirms , that when one enters a member of such a congregation under the ministery of a. b. he cometh under a new relative state , by an implicit● or virtual covenant , pag. . which is cross to that which was affirmed pag. . ans. mr. h. cites not my words to the full . i deny not , but he that enters a fixt member of a congregation , comes under a new relative state of a virtual covenant , and so does he that enters a member of a christian army , of a family , of a society in a ship. but the state of the question is not touched : for the state of the question is not , whether this new covenant make the adjoyner a member of the visible church , where as he was no visible member before ; that is , whether a born englishman , by being made a citizen of london , was made an englishman and a born subject of england , whereas he was not a born subject before ? . whether doth this new-covenant give him right and claim to church-ordinances , and seals of the covenant of grace , so as without it , the man hath no right at all to ordinances . sure , it s a great sin to lay more weight on either the temple or the ark than god hath laid on them . but this covenant so used is a fancy . mr. h. a church newly erected becomes a sister-church with others , yet she needs not a new covenant ( saith mr. r. ) to accomplish it . ans. no certain , our covenant once entred , all the relations that depend thereupon are included in the first covenant . a woman once being married , all duties to the husbands kindred results from the marriage-covenant , there is no need of a new covenant . ans. yea , but a church newly erected becomes as really a part of a synodical body that is really obliged to engage for association , saith mr. h. ( and it s both lawful and useful ) as a person becomes a member of the single congregation . and officers are no less married to synodical duties ( by the light of nature and right reason ( saith the same mr. h. ) than single persons are married to congregational duties ; therefore a covenant is as necessary in the one as in the other , magis & minus non variant speciem , if there be a marriage , here officers are more married to the associated churches in general , as to the complete correlate , than to the single and inadequate correlate the bit of a single congregation . . a man born in the covenant of grace , and baptized , is engaged in all duties , mr. h. the apologie said , it s not the rule of the word touching man and wife , magistrate and subject , that makes people in such a state , but the covenant thus stands unanswered by mr. r. ans. this is for me ; but he being born in the gospel-covenant , and baptized to all churches , he is a son , a married member to all congregations . . mr. r. constantly denied the naked comparison , as blasphemous and popish , the church is spouse to no sinful man , pope or any other . enaristus , the councel of carthage , of sardis , of antioch , so judge , that the bishop is the husband , the church his wife . innocentius the iii. as almighty god hath left the marriage-covenant to be dissolved by his own judgement onely , so let not the bishop leave his church . but calvin and luther say , the lord is the husband of the church : so bullinger , musculus , gualther . . it makes communion between the pastor and those of divers congregations to be acts of adultery . . it makes a pastor to be married till death . . when the congregation is dissolved by persecution , the godly pastor is cast out of his masters service by the nature of this covenant , because he is faithful to christ , and that by christ himself . . it divorces between all godly pastors , and all churches on earth , so that it is not lawful to preach pastorally , or to tender the seals to another congregation , or any member thereof , though letters of recommendation ( as our brethren say ) may give church right to the se●ls to those of another congregation to be admitted to the lords supper ; yet we still desire to quere , whether the pastor , upon the banishment or death of the pastors of sister congregations , may not lawfully , pastorally preach and tender the seals to them , or not ? if the former , here is a strange man acting as a husband to another mans wife . . here is a pastor acting as a pastor and a shepherd to those that are not his flock , and that by no intervening of a church-covenant ; and he wants the essentials of a pastor , which is the choise of that people . . here is mr. h. his relation between pastor and people broken , and their principles destroyed , if the latter be said . . what difference is there between his tendring of the seals to those of another congregation in his own church , and in another church , except the walls of the house make the difference ? . why should he not tender the other seal of regeneration common to all covenanted ones , act. . . as well as the lords supper ? . if he may not as a pastor in another congregation ; how , or by what authority of scripture are pastors onely ambassadors of the king , messengers of the lord of hosts , workers with christ , stewards , dispensers of the mysteries of the gospel , sent of god , friends of the bridegroom , and can act onely as such within the precincts of a congregation ; and lose both name and thing , when they pass over the line to visible saints of another congregation ? the priests might not offer sacrifice and offerings , but in the place that the lord should appoint in his word ; shew us a word confining pastoral acting 〈◊〉 ambassadors to one flock onely . . this destroyes the communion of churches as churches , and makes synods , in which pastors act as pastors to other congregations associate , ( as mr. cotton teacheth ) to be no ordinances of christ. . the same husbandly power must be in doctors , so that they write not books as doctors to other congregations , but onely to their own . . what scripture warranteth the same pastor in the same sermon preaching to his own flock , and to many strangers of another congregation , to act as a pastor to his own onely , and to others as a gifted man ? and to hear in the same word to the conscience of the one by pastoral authority , and to the other by private authority , such as a gifted plowman or woman hath ? . onely christ is the bridegroom , spouse , husband of his church , ioh. . eph. . cant. . , , , . and it will not suffice to say , christ is the supreme catholick husband of all churches , but the pastor is the under-politick head and husband of the congregation , as some distinguish . for the husband and bridegroom are as incommunicable titles proper to christ onely , as to be the head of the church , eph. . . col. . . and yet jesuites do but mock , when they say , that christ is the principal and perpetual head of the whole church in a soveraign and principal manner , but the pope is the ministerial head. nor do papists make the pope a father , husband , bridegroom and head of the church by the spiritual influence of life , motion and grace , yet are they refuted by willet , d. fulk , cartwright , and ours : and mr. h. will but ad naus●am inculcate , that the pastor is the married husband , and the congregation his onely wife ; and that he may not act as a pastor toward others than his own flock , more than a man may venture to take the place , and to do the duties of a husband to a woman — and tell her he is in the covenant of grace — and there need●… marriage-covenant . hence i infer , he cannot dispense the lords supper to one of another congregation , contrary to himself and his brethren , except he be married by a church-covenant to them ; and so he must be a husband , and perform the duties of a husband to a hundred persons , of a hundred associate congregations . but it had been fit mr. h. had produced any words of mine that bear , that being in the covenant of grace can warrant a man to discharge pastoral duties , either to one congregation or other , before he be lawfully called of god by the church , and before he formally consent and engage not implicitely , but formally and expresly to feed the flock of god ; or that any mans being in the covenant of grace licenses him to do all duties whatsoever of a pastor , of a magistrate , of a husband , of a physician , b●fore he be lawfully called of god to the calling of a pastor , a magistrate , a husband , a physician . and mr. h. wrongfully would that the reader should believe , that mr. r. so teacheth . there are some actions indeed that the visible and professed being in the covenant of grace warranteth a man to do , to wit , to partake of the seals in all congregations , without any new church-covenant , to gain a trespassing brother , to counsel , teach , rebuke , comfort church-members of all congregations , where it shall please god he shall be for the present . and mr. r. denies that these are either pastoral , or husband-duties , and thinks mr. h. in a great errour : for if one of another congregation should trespass against a member of a sister-congregation near by , mr. h. hath furnished the offender rebuked with this reply : you and i are not congregational brethren , nor married members of the same congregation ; and therefore the covenant of grace warrants not you to rebuke me , or to tell the church of my obstinacy in adultery , except you and i had both sworn in the same marriage-congregational covenant : for the covenant of grace no more warranteth you to gain me in a church way , than it warranteth a man to do husband-duties to the woman with whom he never made any marriage-covenant ; and so all duties of this kinde performed by presbyterians never so godly , must be antichristian and adulterous . mr. h. this new covenant makes the new adjoyner a member of the congregation , ( saith mr. r. ) never 〈◊〉 of us ( saith mr. h. ) said any such thing . the church as totum essentiale , made of visible saints covenanting to watch over one another in a church-way , is before her officers , the particular members are members before they choose their pastors , and therefore are not made church-members by this new covenant . ans. there be too many wayes to the well here . i said , the new covenant makes the new adjoyner a member of the congregation . yea , i adde , a member of the visible church , whereas he was no better then a heathen before , and the churches of new england say with me ; though mr. h. say , that never one of them said any such thing . and sure this is one church-covenant by which persons are made fixed members of a congregation ; ergo , they are by this covenant made members of the visible church , whereas they were as pagans before . but there is another church-covenant , by which pastor and people are married , and every member so married , as they cannot act as church-members without their own congregation , and he cannot act as a pastor toward any , but toward his own flock . hence a new quaere , whether there be two different church-covenants ? . it s without question , that the family of abraham was gods covenanted people before circumcision was instituted , gen. . nor is there any ground for a formal church-covenanting among themselves . and it speaks against all scripture , to say there was a church covenant in egypt , and in the wilderness , exod. . , . for they were not made church-members , for members they were before , by these covenantings with god. and this is mr. h. his own consequence , they are members before they chose their pastors : ergo. so i retort . mr. h. if this covenant difference the visible church from the invisible , as the formal cause ; then there have been no visible churches since the apostles times till now . now the churches ( saith mr. h. ) in england , holland , &c. have the implicit covenant , at their practice evidenceth . ans. yet it must f●…ow , since presbyterian churches believe and practice juridical power , without the bonds of a single independent church in divers associate congregations . . and do not contend for , but are against really supposed saints , as only constituent members of the visible church , and in the causes internal and external . and . are so contradictorious to independency , there have been no church , according to the rule of the word , since the apostles dayes . . if an implicit covenant suffice , we shall find popish churches to have much of that . mr. h. though many unwarrantable wayet convey this covenant , yet it self may be warrantable . ans. if by ways mr. r. mean , as he doth , wayes inseparable , causes , pillars , means and undeniable consequences , the covenant must be the more unhappy , as the unlawful wayes of the mass , the lifting up of the bready god , and idolatrous ceremonies inseparably conveying it , render it unlucky . mr. h. it is a dream to say , that when the apostles came to plant churches , that private men , not the apostles converted them ; where is the man ( of ours ) that will affirm that all ( all ) are converted by private christians ? ans. the reply auswers not a whit to the charge of mr. r. now when the apostles are not . . the apostles , by our brethrens way , are not pastors so much as extraordinary nor , publick men , for extraordinariness destroys not the nature of pastors ; and to our brethren pastor and flock are relatives ; but the heathen are no fed stock , nor these who now teach the gospel to the heathen , apostles nor pastors . . these who teach that now apostles ceasing , pastors as pastors convert none according to the revealed command of christ ; but pre suppose all are converted before they be admitted members : they convert not as pastors ; ergo , they must convert them as no pastors ; ergo , they convert them as private men , except there be a middle preacher between a preaching officer , and a private man , but this every where is taught by our brethren : now this middle uncalled man , must be the ordinary converser of all . . mr. h. teacheth that the church homogeneal , in ordinary , now when there are no apostles , is before baptism and ministry ; now this church is all the visible sovieties of confederate converts on earth . let mr. h. tell us who converted them : not pastors , for they are a framed church in esse and operari , the fathers and sole creators of all officers . mr. h. it is unwarrantable to say pastors now convert not indians and heathens , saith mr r. it is warrantable enough , saith m. h. answ. enough is a feast . converters of heathen now are either apostles , evangelists , or ordinary officers and pastors , or of some middle new officers : this latter cannot without scripture be said , not the former , for they want the gift of tongues and miracles ; nor are they ordinary pastors . for pastor and flock , saith mr. h. shepherd called , and church chusing , husband and wife are relatives . but indians are no chusing church . mr. h. men must be satisfied in conscience of the conversion one of another , saith mr. r. ans. to reasonable charity they should , saith mr. h. and no doubt it was in ananias , saphira . ans. but their long conversing together , for this satisfaction mr. h. bringeth down to two poor experienced witnesses , magus and iudas , for every one must witness of another , and that witnesses were called and judicially deponed , that all the . act. . and all iudea , and all round about who were baptized , matth. . , . mark . . luk. . . were real converts , who can believe , except you believe ? for so saith mr. h. mr. h. what is all this to overthrow the covenant ? ans. very much ; for it destroyes the ministry : for though some private christians may convert some , yet no man can shew me , by our brethrens way , that pastors now do convert any at all ; contrary to mat. . , rom. . , . eph. . , , . cor. . . cor. . . act. . , , . or if they convert any , they do it not as pastors . m. h. they which have no church-power , can put forth no church power , but such as churches to other churches . ans. the proposition is weak , they put forth an act of love , of counsel , of approbation , of conjunction , as well as power . mr. r. grants one single congregation to have no power over another ; many churches sent to parliament , to declare their judgement , may approve of their determinations , if holy , if not , may confute them ; yet they have no church-power over the parliament . ans. . my argument is mistaken , many churches , suppose mine , have not power by this way to receive in one church , nor iames , cephas , and iohn power to receive authoritatively paul , as they do , say calvin , pelicanus , pareus , piscator , diodati , beza ; yea ierom also before them . mr. h. if mr. r. const●ue a token of consent , consensionis , to be a symbole of authority , it is beyond my understanding . ans. mr. r. never understands private consent , or private counsel , such as one private man or woman may give to another private person , of their own , or of another congregation , to be publick authority ; but i acknowledge a publick authoritative , and aopstolick consent to be in iames , cephas , iohn ; and their meaning was , brother paul , our counsel as brethren , is , and our consent , you be a preacher , but we have no apostolick authority from the lord to own you as an apostle . now that is the true meaning of mr. h. for this of mr. r. must bide yet strong : these that have no church-power can put forth no church-act . such as one church may put forth toward another single sister-church , as mr. r. often granteth , as one single man cannot excommunicate another ; yet one single man being a pastor in a church , judicature joined with the church binding and loosing , such as is mat. . may give consent , not private by way of counsel , but publick , by way of authoritative influence , as a partial and collateral cause , that paul , gal. . be authoritatively adopted into the number of the apostles , & that they be excommunicate who say , they are apostles , but are not , and do lye , rev. . and a married wife hath no marriage-power over any man but over her own husband ; nor is it to be heard , which mr. h. saith , i but she may put forth an act of love and counsell to all men . but i ask , may she put forth a certain act of matrimonial love , or perform a certain matrimonial duty to all men on earth ? this would be too near unchast acting . so let mr. h. answer , whether these three , iames , cephas , and iohn , gave apostolick publick consent , that paul should be received an apostle , or only a private counsel . if the former be said , why contend we ? if the latter , what more had paul from the given right hand of these apostles then he had before ? he was no more to them an apostle then before , yea , more to three private believers in galatia ; contrary to the scope of gal. . these churches sent to the parliament that way , not representing the national church and kingdom covenanted with the lord , can give no church-determination , more then so many single pastors ; yet it is an official judgement , not a private judgement . mr. h. it is not warrantable that one not in office ( saith mr. r. ) but a private christian , should pray , exhort , preside in the framing of a church , and in ordaining of pastors . ans. the practice of the church of scotland will say to this , we allow not publick prophesying of unofficed men . ans. . here is ordinary prophecying , such as that of the apostle peter at the calling of matthias , act. . and publick church-prophesying and praying ; such as is by the prophets or presbytery of the church of antioch , act. . when paul & barnabas were called to be apostles to the gentiles : and since officers are but adjuncts of the church to mr. h. and separable accidents , by no institution of christ have pastors hand in ordaining pastors ; but the setled way till christs second coming is that the male-church kindly per se , make and unmake all the officers , which cannot be done , but by church prophesying of unofficed men . . expectants being pastors in fieri , sons of the prophets , by command of the prophets , vi materiae , for trial must prophesie : that you cannot warrantably say from scripture of your prophets . lib . ii. chap. i. whether or not a company of believers destitute as yet of officers , and combined together by this new covenant , be truely called , and be in truth and indeed a church ? mr . hooker moves the question , whether such a company be a church indeed ? by which he insinuates , that it is a certain kind of a visible church , but not the only visible church instituted by christ in the new testament . therefore mr. h. stands obliged either to form the question in other terms , or to shew which is the only instituted visible church in the new testament : for the discipline-book of n. e. saith , that church which christ in his gospel hath instituted , to which he hath committed the keyes — the officers , censures — is coetus fidelium , a combination of the godly — called a particular visible church . and mr. h. comes to our hand , and ( so with a trumpet giving an uncertain sound ) he tells he speaks of the congregational church , as it goes before officers ; which is a man in the moon , and proved by no scripture at all . mr. h. the trumpet here gives an incertain sound . m. r. expressions are so full of variety . ans. it is a groundless charge , except you bring expressions of mr. r. ambiguities , which is not legible to the reader : i blow the trumpet alwayes against such a visible church as mr. h. forgeth by arguments from the word , which are not answered . mr. h. a church ministerial is taken two wayes . . generally , as implying any delegate power in the exercise of any church-acts , under christ. so a company of visible saints hath power of admission of members , and election of officers ; and in case they prove heretical , to reject the officer , and make him no officer . all these are granted by mr. r. ministerial power is taken strictly , as it includes an office power , so it is not ministerial . ans. mr. h. dictates , but neither teaches nor brings one word of scripture to prove a distinction that hath neither head nor feet . . the members of the distinction are coincident ; for to ordain officers , and excommunicate them is governing strictly and most properly ; as is in the second member . and yet in the first member , to excommunicate makes a ministerial church largely so called . the distinction is a begging of the question , and destroyes it self ; for it is to ask whether visible saints , wanting such as are the only governours and rulers , who are called in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , heb. . . rulers , be a ruling and a governing church , for a society that doth ordain elders , and which censures them , if heretical , with excommunication , must be a ruling , and so a ministerial church , if there be any ruling and ecclesiastick church on earth . if any say that a society that appoints stewards and officers over the house , and excommunicateth them , is not a politick governing society ; they may deny that the man which maketh use of reason is a reasonable creature . and to frame a distinction , and say a man is a reasonable creature in that sense , is poor logick . we can give instances where the presbytery ordains , and layes on hands , cor. . . and where titus and other elders are to ordain elders in every city , tit. . . and timothy , and in him others are charged to lay on hands , and ordain no man suddenly , while he be proved to be a fit officer , tim. . . tim. . . and where timothy and others with him are commanded , tim. . . to commit the ministry to faithful men , who are able to teach others . would mr. h. shew so much for the power of rule in a company of believers , void of officers , or give us a shadow of reason in the word from precepts , practices , promises , for this new church , that ordains and excommunicates without officers , they should have something to say to this , who upon good groun● say , they coyn a new church of their own , unknown to word . mr. h. indeed elswhere saith , such places shall prove ti●… thy and titus to be prelats . i answer , . mr. h. and our brethrens way shall be straited with this groundless argument , as well as we . . we say , these epistles in point of governing , as trying of pastors , tim. . , , . of deacons , ver . . of elders , tim. . . ordaining or laying on of hands , ver . . receiving of accusation by witnesses , , . the ordaining of elders thus and thus qualified , tit. . , , , . tim. . . preaching the gospel in season and out of season tim . , . with gentleness , tim. . . ruling in the house of god , tim. . . charging of men to preach sound doctrine . tim. . . dividing the word aright , tim. . , . these epistles ( i say ) are written to timothy and to titus , not as little monarchs , with preeminence above other elders , but to them as representing all faithful officers in the colledge of that presbytery , tim. . . who are to keep that command unviolable , to the second appearing of christ , tim . . and they are not written to elders as having dominion over the faith of the people . . if these epistles were written to timothy and titus not as representing officers , but as the church representing the people , yet wanting officers , and so in a church-capacity , then it should be pauls minde that the people in that case destitute of elders , should preach the word in season and out of season ; as timothy , tim. . , . and that the people , in that capacity , should , as the approved workmen of god , divide the word of truth rightly , tim. . . as well as they ordain elders , and make and unmake officers , by the places , tim. . , tim. . . tit. . . yea , and the apostle should not have ordained titus to appoint elders in every city , for he should have appointed the cities and churches of onely believers to ordain their own elders . yea . the church void of elders , by our brethrens way , are the onely society and visible church on earth , who make and unmake , call and excommunicate officers , and officers have no hand in it , but accidentally : for , elders are made , and if heretical , rejected ( saith mr. h. ) by the people , having no elders at all . ergo , these epistles must be written to the believers of ephesus and crete that yet want officers , that they may be instructed how to behave them●elves in the house of god , how to lay on hands , how to receive accusations , and how to prove and try officers . yea , paul should not have written rules to timothy and titus the publick officers , who by their office ought to have no hand in calling or rejecting of officers by this way . lastly , saith mr. h. all these are granted by mr. r. whereas in many pages i dispute against this new visible church , and grant no such thing , but suppose all the officers should turn heretical in this , in that case the people in tutelâ inculpata salutis , when they turn wolves , may withdraw . but i say not they can authoritatively excommunicate , and make and unmake officers ; and the officers , when the people turn familists , may withdraw and remove the tabernacle . mr. h. god hath set officers in the church , cor. . . therefore the church is before officers . the setting of the candle in the candlestick presupposeth the candlestick ; the church is the candlestick , revel . . . the officers are the candles . mr. r. answered , it was not good logick . ans. i yet maintain this to be naughty logick , and a naughty grammatication : and if this be the best argument for this new conceit , it cannot stand . god ( saith moses , gen. . . ) formed man of the dust , and god breathed in his ( that is ) in the nostrils of the man , the breath of life . ergo , he is a living man before the soul be breathed in him . it s naughty logick like this . mr. h. god made man of earth , i. e. the body of man of the earth , and he breathed into the nostrils of that body so made by that mean , the breath of life : to affirm the body was made before the soul was infused ; and that the body , which is the subject , to receive the soul , must be in nature before the soul , is very good logick . ans. the logick is yet naughty : for moses saith , god breathed in man a living soul , therefore adam is a living man before his soul be infused . by this logick mr. h. will but change my consequence , parallel and large as good as his . and have it thus : god breathed in mans body as the matter , a living soul as the form . ergo , the body is in nature before the soul. i shall not deny that consequence : but . the antecedent is not the grammatical phrase , and the figurative speech of moses , as my antecedent is . god breathed a living soul in the nostrils of man : ergo , he was man before god breathed in him a living soul. so i desire mr. h. to answer the like quirk of grammar , zech. . . god createth the spirit in the midst of man. ergo , he was a man before god created a spirit in the midst of him . so isa. . . god gives breath and spirit to the people , and to those that walk on the earth . by this argument , therefore the people are a living people , moving and walking upon the earth , before god gave them breath and spirit . what more absurd ? so mr. h. god hath set officers in the church : therefore the church is before the officers . so god hath set the members , pastor and people , eye , ear , hands and feet , &c. every one of them in the body , as pleaseth him , cor. . . this is as much as , god hath placed single believers also ( for believers are not members visible without gods setting ) not yet clothed with adjuncts ( as they call them ) of officers in the church , ver . . or in the body visible . therefore by the consequence and grammatication every way alike , the body or church visible of combined believers , shall be before the body or church visible of combined believers . but the conclusion is absurd . what then hath mr. h. gained by this argument ? of necessity then , when the apostle saith , god hath placed in the church apostles , prophets ; the word church , must be the visible catholick organick church , which is made organick by such organs as apostles , prophets , so seated . like this , god hath created a soul in man , and yet he is a man by the soul that is created in him , and is not a man before it be created in him . mr. h. beside there 's advantage to the cause , that not onely the subject in which these officers are , is totum essentiale , but by vertue of her choise which is causal of the officers , they are there , saith mr. h. and therefore in reason must be before them . ans. it s a great disadvantage , and an untruth , to call the elders and rulers of a politick ruling visible church , which is an organical body , the adjuncts thereof : for the members and organs of an organical body , are the integral parts , and so in a physical consideration , the essential parts of the whole integral are not adjuncts by any logick i know : and if you take away the integral parts wholly , you destroy the integral whole ; but if you remove the adjuncts or accidents , you destroy not the subject . . what logick is this , to make the fathers , apostles and pastors who beget , and the ministers by whom we believe , and visibly believe , rom. . , . eph. . , . cor. . . the separable adjuncts of begotten children ? this is strange logick , whiteness begot snow ! and this is as strange , that this church of believers is the cause , and the officers the effect ; that is , the adjunct is the cause , and the children , the church of believers , or the subject is the effect , and the effect begets the cause , and is before the cause , and the fruit hath being before the tree , and the children before the father : for if we speak of a constant rule , as now we must do , when apostles are removed , if the church of believers be a visible church , having the keyes and using them , even to admit officers , and to excommunicate them , they . dispense censures and govern , who have no call to carry on censures and government , by preaching the word , or exhorting and praying , for there are no officers as yet , &c. if these be visible believers , who are their fathers who begat them ? for there are no officers yet to beget them . . who begot them by the preaching of the word ? and if they were heathens , and are now converted , who either did convert them or baptize them ? for there are no officers as yet : did every one baptize another ? or did unbaptized members baptize their own ministers who are yet unbaptized ? and this argument must be strongly retorted : the officers cannot be the effect of this church , for they are the onely causes of the very materials of this church ; for officers must convert , gather a flock to god , and baptize them , if it be true , that faith comes ( in the lords ordinary and instituted way ) by hearing of sent pastors , rom. . . mr. h. the church ( saith mr. r. ) is the candlestick , not simply without candles and lamps ; the church ministerial is the candlesticks , and the ministers the shining torches and candles . it s cross to all mens apprehensions , saith mr. h. that the candlestick should be no longer a candlestick than the candle is in it : they are bought and sold for candlesticks . is not a subject a subject , though the adjunct be not there ? what kinde of logick is this ? ans. it s indeed unknown logick , that officers the fathers should be adjuncts , and the church of believers begotten by them , as is said , the children should be the subject . . mr. h. will have a figurative speech against all logick and grammar , to be a proper speech , and the candlestick , rev. . . to be like the candlesticks of brass or other metal , or wood , which are bought or sold. so when it s said , christ walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks , the sense must be , christ walkesh in the midst of churohes destitute of angels and officers : whereas he hath promised his presence to the officers , matth. . . especially , l●● i am with you — and by this christ must promise his presence to blinde candlesticks , and to churches wanting officers and angels . then the meaning of this , rev. . . i will remove the candlestick , must be , o ephesus , i will remove believers , and that homogeneal body of saints , as destitute of angels . never man dreamed of any such sense as this since the world was . but the true sense is , i will remove a shining ministery , and the ordinances , and the eight of the p●…ed gospel , and the word of the kingdom ; as zech. . . three shepherds also i cut off in one moneth — then said i , i will not feed you . amos . . they shall seek the word of the lord , and shall not finde it . mat. . . the kingdom of god shall be taken from you , acts . , . let mr. h. shew how the church without the minister is called the golden candlestick ? and where the church of believers , without the stars and torches , is called the light of the world ? godly and found interpreters , pareus , pignetus , marlorat , piscater , di●●ati , english divines , the church are candlesticks , because they bear ( saith pareus ) the torch of heavenly doctrine . so pignetus , marlorat , piscator . mr. h. a corporation of aldermen , before they choose a major , is a free corporation : ergo , the church of believers is a visible church before it have officers . a man cannot be a husband before he have a wife , yet he may be a man wooing woman before he can make her his wise . ans. . the comparison is most unlike . for , . a corporation of aldermen is a corporation of free citizens and magistrates , such as aldermen are , though they yet want a magistrate supreme , or a major . the church void of all officers 〈◊〉 not a body capable of governing in a formal way . . say they want aldermen , they had by nature an intrinsacal power to choose to themselves private men to be their rulers , whereas before they were no rulers : but the making and laying on of hands upon men , to make them elders , agrees not to believers , because visible believers , by the law of nature , but by a positive law of god is given to a certain number of presbyters or elders , tim . . as is above proved . . say that fourty pagans , not baptized , were made by the travels of some private christian , man or woman , visible saints , fourty unbaptized could not make unbaptized pag●… their rulers and pastors , as they could make some of their members their civil magistrates . . that corporation doe● he get and create their rulers , and their rulers , who are posteriour to them , did not beget them , and make them free citizen● . but officers ●●cording to the fixed rule of the gospel , now when apostles cease to be , are the onely fathers who baget visible professor . mr. h. if the church ●●net a church without officers , then as often as the officers die , the church di●… also . . when the church for gross heresias rejecteth the officers , the church must destroy her self , while she laboureth her own preservation . doth a corporation , when they put out a wicked magistrate out of his place , therefore destroy their own liberties , and nullifie their corporation ? such arguments may seem ●n●ugh to cast a cause , and yet mr. r. by them can turn all aside . ans. it s unfit that a man should so reflect upon his brethren , when there is so little strength . . the pastors being the husband , and the church the wife , sure , if the wife destroy the husband to save her self , she destroys her own wife ship , while she labours the preservation of her self as a woman : and if the church destroy all the heretical officers , is there any absundity to say , she destroyeth her own ministerial feeding , her own sacramental communion , by which she is one body with all the saints on earth , as the brethren grant ; and its sure from cor. . , . & . . as touching any spiritual well-being and feeding by these wretched feeders : but they have no authority to do it . i see no inconvenience , why a corporation may not out , and lay aside all their aldermen and major , if they turn lions and leopards , and so destroy the present individual government , while they labour their own safety , and the safety of their priviledges . but the case is not alike , except mr. h. prove , that the church of believers hath the same positive power of government intrinsecal without their officers , and onely fathers who begat them to christ , to use the keyes , and formally to excommunicate them , as a free city hath over their magistrates . . if the officers die , sure the organical church dies , and the organical , and the ministerial and politick essence of that visible church , as it is totum integrale , dies . . i retort the argument . when the church of the jews , acts . & . turns heretical , and blasphemes , and refuses to be the married wife ( i speak in our brethrens language ) if the church of officers reject them , and turn to others , it shall not follow . . that the officers destroy their own husbandly power , while they labour their own preservation : which is the great absurdity that mr. h. puts upon mr. r. as enough to cast the cause . . shall it follow , that the officers without the people , or governing without , yea contrary to their consent , is a true visible church ? in no sort . mr. h. when the tents are removed , they are not the shepherds tents : to remove the candlestick is to remove the ministery , and remove all the officers , the church is not a body visible eating one bread , cor. . , . so mr. r. but mr. h. answers , yet they are called tents fit to receive shepherds , and are the same they were before the shepherds were chosen , and remain the same : to remove the candlestick is to remove the ministery , because ministery and ministers have their dependence on the church ; destroy the man the whole , you destroy the parts ; but it holds not contrariwise : its true in a ministerial church , i. e. an organicum totum , when you take away any part , you lame the integrity of it ; but you dedestroy not the essence of it , as it is totum essentiale . ans. it is enough to me , if ye remove all officers and shepherds , it is no ruling church , though the fitness of choice ( which is no act of government ) do still remain ; yet the fitness to ordain and to excommunicate remains not , for they never had it ; luke distinguishes the one from the other , acts . , . the multitude 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , chused not the apostles ; but the twelve apostles , not the multitude , ordained them by praying and laying on of hands , v . as the elders do , and they only , in the new testament , tim. . . tim. . . . it is good that mr. h. grants that to remove the candlestick , is to remove the minist●…y ; i hope he means the shining , burning , and guiding ministers and watchmen , tim. . , . mat. . . ioh. . . but in the other page , . it is cross to all mens apprehensions ( saith he ) that the candlestick should include candles and lamps . . nor is it true in mr. h. his way , that to remove the candlestick , is to remove the ministry ; for there remaineth a preaching and a praying church ( which is at the ordaining of officers , and sending them , act. ● . & . . act. . , , . act. . . ) which doth only make and unmake officers , saith mr. h. . destroy the whole ( saith he ) and you destroy the parts ; but it holds not , contrariwise : why not contrariwise ? if you destroy all the parts ( otherwise the logick is naught ) take away eyes , and ears , and hands , and feet , and all the integral parts , or all the essential parts , and you destroy the whole , in any sense ; too much of this logick mr. h. gives us . . take away ( saith he ) in an organick or ministerial body a member , you lame the integrity . now the ministry and officers are removed by the people , because they are heretical , as mr. h. teacheth page . i pray you , remains there a ministerial or organick body ? no , saith m. h. there remains a homogeneous body . . take away any part , you lame the integrity ; take then away the ministry , you lame the body . o logick ! the ministry is a separable adjunct to mr. h. page . here it is an integral part ; is an integral part an adjunct ? is the eye an adjunct of the organical body ? is the integrity hurt , because a separable adjunct is removed ? . nor is this true , take away any part in an organical body , and you lame the integrity ; it is only true of an organical part , not of any part ; take away ten members , believers only , the church remaineth an entire , and unlamed integral body : let ten free members of a city be removed by death , yet the city remains an unmaimed entire body of citizens , ruled by major and aldermen . . remove the ministry , the essence and organical body remaineth not . mr. h. that which is added , is more beside the cause ; it is granted where officers are not , there is no communion of the sacraments , is there therefore no church-communion ? ans. if this communion be removed , there is no communion of the church , which being many members , is one body , cor. . , . & . , . and what reason but a church , and the only instituted visible church in the new testament , as the book of discipline of n. e. makes it , should be a complete church in being and operation , and partake of all church-communion , though it want the officers , which are to mr. h. but poor harmless separable adjuncts ? page . and this is somewhat for the cause . m. h. we have done now with the first quere , and made it clear , that this church is before all officers , and may be without them . ans. so mr. h. hath done , and made it as clear as midnight darkness , with whole two arguments , the one whereof is a poor grammatication , and scarce that , and the other a begging of the question ; that there is a ruling church before , and without officers , which may make and unmake officers . chap. ii. of the nature and being of a presbyterial church . mr. h. the qualification of the church as totum essentiale , in the order and pr●cedency of it , in regard of her true officers we have dispatched . now we speak of it in comparison with a presbyterian church . ans. let not then the reader exprest any visible church organical to be spoken of ; organs are but separable adjuncts , the only church spoken of , and acknowledged by mr. h. and our brethren , is an homogeneal church of onely believers , which mr. h. now calls the church , before he called it a church , and this church , page . but we ask the question whether the word church , mat. . . tell the church , cor. . . unto the church of god which is at corinth . and cor. . . thes. . . tim. . . be this congregational church without the separable adjuncts of officers : and the truth is , the place matth. . the principal copy of the independent church , can mean no church according to our brethrens way : for no reason can say that the keys of the kingdom of heaven , matth. . and the power of binding and loosing . matth. . , . are given to the separable adjuncts of the church : but such are the officers , saith mr. h. page . and to such as are no essential parts of the instituted church , and of the only visible church of the new testament . but m. h. makes it clear , as he sayes , that the congregational church is before the officers , and may be , and is without them , therefore officers can be no essential parts of the church of the new testament . and so this church void of officers , must be to our brethren , the first and principal subject of all government , rule , keyes , officers , and what not ? mr. h. being to evert presbyterial government , he begins at the pillars . the presbyterian church consists of three pillars . . there must be several congregations , made entire of such members to make up an integral body of rulers and ruled . ans. there is a crack in this pillar , it is not essential to a presbyterian church that all the congregation be entire , and formed churches , having their own officers distinct from the offices of others , we cannot determine that matthias had a determinate flock , to which onely he was a fixed pastor , and peter another , and iohn a third ; we rather judge the whole twelve fed in common , sometimes in one congregation , in this house , dayly , and sometimes in another ; but all the huge thousands could not feed in one house , otherwise many congregations framed and fixed , or not framed and fixed , are all under one presbytery , as the learned and reverend assembly at westminster teacheth . if the pillars be dreams , the house that m. h. storms is also a dream . to the second pillar we shall speak hereafter , if the lord will. . these churches send rulers , by way of delegation , to whom they submit . ans. this also is a faulty pillar . . they so send as they may be present to hear , dispute , dissent , to what is amiss , nor are the pastors delegates . . they submit to them not simply . but first , reserving judgement of discretion . secondly , and with liberty to appeal . . the whole elders of six congregations in a city may all meet in one common presbytery , without any delegation ; and that is a presbyterial church , as is the meeting of a congregational eldership . mr. h. to their power of iurisdiction the churches must submit — but it ariseth from a power of order or office to preach . ans. well said , then cannot they exercise the highest acts of jurisdiction , to excommunicate all the elders , as mr. h. saith , page . they do , for the people hath no power of order or official power to preach the gospel , and administer the seals , page . and yet mr. h. saith , they may communicate all their officers . mr. h. there is a iurisdiction official that issues onely from the office , this the officers have . answ. this lenitive is a corrosive . here is the matter , the people have jurisdiction , and do excommunicate , but not by an official jurisdiction , but by another power : so a midwife baptizeth in the roman church , but not by a power of order , as a priest , but its valid . an usurper judgeth , but not by a power derived from the royall power of the soveraigne ruler . . by what scripture can any power of the keyes given by christ onely to the church of believers , be given to separable adjuncts of the church ? mr. h. none is a steward , unless appointed over the family by christ , cor. . , . hence papists and prelats erre , officers and offices are coronation-mercies , and proceed from christs ascension , eph. . , . . they are means of worship instituted by him . . he onely can blesse them . answ. . none are stewards to put in and put out stewards and excommunicate them , but such as are appointed of god : but believers without officers are no stewards at all . . censuring and excommunicating is an authoritative way of edifying , cor. . . cor. . , . thess. . . shew in all the word , where believers and private christians are to edifie and build up in the faith their pastors , and that in an authoritative way . the people so must . be coronation-mercies , and gifts given of christ , ascending to heaven for the perfecting of the pastors , and the work of the ministery , to gather in apostles , evangelists , pastors to christ. whereas the text saith the contrary , that pastors were given to gather in the people , and the people , or unofficed brethren , were not given to gather in apostles . . if excommunication be a worship administred by the brethren upon pastors ; then must a promise be made to unofficed brethren , who excommunicate , behold , i send you , as matth. . . this we reade not . mr. h. he that is called and appointed an officer according to god and the rules of the gospel , as he needs no other power but that of his office , to authorize him to execute it ; so there is no power by rule or right that can hinder him in the due execution thereof . ans. this is a ground against both episcopacy and presbytery . presbyters may preach in other congregations than their own , if they be officers over it , as bishops may in many congregations . . the pastor , if called of god , may do his office , without horrowing a power from the pastor of pastors to do it ; but he must preach hic & nunc in an orderly way , upon a day , and time of the day appointed by the church . . he hath an office to preach and administer the seales any where , yet must he have the call by desire , consent , or some other way , before he can do it in another congregation . . nor can he rule or administer censures as his alone , extra collegium , without the authoritative concurrence of the elders , and tacit consent of the people , though he be an appointed officer of christ. so this ground is weak . other weak grounds we shall consider after . chap. iii. the arguments of mr. h. against the presbyterian churches are removed as weak . mr. h. arg. . if the churches combined have no more power than they had before they were combined , they can exercise no more iurisdiction than before ; and therefore have no presbyterian power , are no presbyterian churches . but they have no more power after their combination , than before : ergo. the assumption , where the doubt onely lies , is made out thus : they who have no more office and officers than they had before , they have no more jurisdiction ; as in the first ground , power of jurisdiction flows from power of office . but they have no more officers , for each send their own ; therefore they have no more power . ans. mr. h. says , the doubt is onely in the assumption , and takes the proposition for undeniable : the major is false ; for by this argument , two single congregations each a hundred in number , lying so near as they may most conveniently meet , cannot lawfully unite in one church , for the better attaining the end of christ , which is edification : for say they be the same number of offices and officers , then they can exercise no more power of jurisdiction , after the combination over two hundred , than each of them did over one hundred . but the conclusion is absurd . yea , this argument destroys the synod , acts . for suppose the number of offices and officers to be equal in the synod , after the synodical combination , and in the church of either antioch onely , or ierusalem onely , before the combination , which is a facile and ordinary supposition ; then they can exercise no more synodical power ( it matters not what be the kinde , whether of power of jurisdiction , or not ) after the combination of these churches than before ; and so the judgement of a synod should be no more than the judgement of a congregation . but the consequence is absurd . let mr. h. see to it , and deal with mr. cotton to answer him . . to the proposition . if the churches combined have no more power extensively , feeding a larger number after the combination than before , then they can exercise no more jurisdiction , no more , by way of extension ; it is false : for their united power is extended to a larger number now , then the divided power was before to each single flock . if the churches combined have more power intensively , of the same species and nature after the combination than before , then they can exercise no more jurisdiction intensively than before . it s true , it is the same power of christ , the same valid excommunication , the same binding and loosing as to the specifick nature of binding and loosing , that is exercised by five churches in a city , and exercised by ten churches about . we multiply not species , to make all congregations to differ in nature and specie , as mr. h. doth against logick ; whereas they have the same essentials , christ the head , the same ordinances , seals , the same faith ; but then it shall never follow , therefore they have no presbyterian power over many churches , and therefore they are not distinct presbyterian churches in local distinction ; magis & minus non variant specious . nor are presbyterian , and provincial and national churches different in nature , but onely in extent of jurisdiction . . it s a wide mistake , that a presbyterian church hath its formal essence from a voluntary actual combination in such bounds , or such a circuit more or less : that is not a pillar of presbyterian churches ; for their near association , by dwelling where they may edifie or scandalize one another , gives them right to be an associated church , not simply habitation , but the habitation of such and such professors in covenant with god , baptized , and giving themselves up in profession to christ as disciples , before there be a formal consent , they are obliged to associate : yea , nor doth that voluntary combination make a presbyterial church . mr. h. arg. . if the presbyterian ministers have iurisdiction , then , over all the churches of the combination , or onely ●ver some ; not over some onely , for that is against the definition of a presbyterian church : therefore they must have iurisdiction over all the churches , ten or sixteen . if they have iurisdiction over all these , then they are officers , pastors , teachers , ruling-elders in office to them all ; for there must be an office , and so officer before iurisdiction ; and there is no iurisdiction exercised but by an officer . to say they are pastors of them all , is to make a road and ready way for pluralities , non-residencies . ans. mr. h. gives us , as also the dissenting brethren in the assembly at westminster did , in stead of scrip●ure , a number of supposed incongruities , which with equal weight fall upon their own way , as upon ours . for suppose that the twelve apostles , act. . & . & . for divers years were pastors to the many thousands that made up divers , eight or ten congregations , who daily convened from house to house , act. . . & . . in ierusalem ; and that all the twelve feed all the ten congregations in common , matthias not being a fixed pastor to this congregation more than to this ; nor peter a fixed pastor to this flock rather than to this , which is a thing most ordinary in great cities , where there be flocks , and pastors , and variety of gifts by interchange , proves more edifying . all the pastors have jurisdiction , yea and pastoral charge over every one of the twelve . then . must they be pastors and teachers to every one of the twelve , and because all the cannot every one of them be residents and dwellers in all and every congregation of the ten or twelve churches in ierusalem , ( that is physically impossible ) here shall be pluralities and non-residents , and that which our brethren call diocesan prelates here . . that the presbyterial preachers be pastors and teachers , habitu , and actu primo , and in common to all the churches of the combination , in acts of common concernment , though they be not actu secundo , actual labourers , proper and fixed pastors , residents and dwellers in every congregation ( for that was physically impossible to the elders of ierusalem ) to all and every congregation , is not absurd , but necessary ; and the charge of pluralities , and prelatical non-residents , follows by no logick , except you call the twelve apostles , who preached fixedly at ierusalem some years , non-residents , because that they could not every one of them dwell in every family of so many thousands at once : in which sense , multitudes of independent ministers shall be non-residents ; and suppose there shall be a common treasury to pay the labourers their wages , and that collected out of the goods of all the thousands so combined , the independent ministers upon the same account must be pluralists , and receive wages from many , to whom they neither are nor can be fixed , and proper and peculiarly feeding pastors . . wisdome may forbid the brethren to use this argument , there is no jurisdiction exercised , but by an officer : for the whole people , men and women , the onely church instituted in the new testament , or their unofficed male church , the fraternity exercise the highest jurisdiction , and excommunicate all their officers , and yet they are not officers by their own principles . mr. h. mr. r. denies the assumption , that they bear the relation of proper pastors to every one of these congregations . mr. h. proper pastors they must be to all . if the relation of eldership to a classical church be founded upon the same office that a pastor hath to his particular congregation , then the elders bear that same relation of watchmen to a classical church , which a pastor doth to a particular flock : for where there is the same office of a pastor , there is the same relation of watchman and pastor , the one issuing from the other . but the first is said by mr. r. lib . . also they put forth authoritative acts , which issue onely from proper pastors , they are proper pastors to those upon whom they can exercise such acts , else they had no warrant to put them forth . answ. i yet in this sense deny the assumption , that they are proper pastors , that is , actual imployers of their labours of feeding , both by fixed teaching and governing , to all the flocks of the classical church ; for that is unpossible , except they could be in many congregations at once so feeding . but i deny not , but constantly teach , that the presbyterian pastors are properly , that is , formally , essentially , habitu , actu primo , pastors in relation to all the flocks , not of the classical church only , but of all the visible churches on earth . as a physician by covenant actually imployed to attend all the sick of such a city , suppose norwich , is their proper physician , yet so as he is essentially a physician to all in england , who shall by providence employ him . an exquisite gardener by paction , is a proper gardener to such a man who conduces or hires him a certain time , to labour such a plot of ground , yet so as essentially and actu primo , he is a gardener to all the country round about who shall employ him . so is one a proper school-master to teach grammar and rhetorick to the children of such a city , yet so as he is a school-master to all the children of the country who shall employ him . christ sends his pastor archippus intentionally to feed all his flocks in all fields , and he is essentially a pastor to them all ; but for the more convenient attaining of christs end , he fixes him by the choice of the people to the church of coloss , not as a husband to a wife . . mr. h. with his little finger aims not to twitch the probation of this . . where there is the same office of pastor , there is the same relation of watchman and pastor . it is false , a physician , a pastor providentially fixed to cure and feed this city by special covenant , hath a more near relation to cure and feed this city ; having a twofold relation , both by the calling in general of a physician and pastor , and by a special solemn oath , and hand-writ to this city ; and both the physician is the same publick physician , and the pastor the same publick watchman officio , by office essentially , habitu , actu primo , to all the sick bodies and sick souls in the country . a mother is the same mother to ten children , but hath a special relation to the eldest as her heir . . as born with more pain and labour then all the other nine . . as more dearly loving him then all the other nine . here is the same place , the same officer , but sundry particular relations . . mr. h. leaves that unproved , the presbyterian pastors cannot put forth authoritative acts pastoral , but hoc ipso , they must be proper , i. e. their fixed pastors , and made theirs by the particular choice of the people to feed and govern these , toward who● they put forth these pastoral acts ; because indeed it is adultery to them who are no husbands , to put forth pastoral acts of governing , upon those to whom they are not fixed pastors ; ye● they tender the supper to forraign members ; and so this is a rotten pillar of this way . . forsaken by mr. cotton , and the way of the churches of n. e. and by mr. h. himself . . it destroys synods and all communion of churches ; for mr. cotton yeildeth , as truth of the gospel taught by a minister of the gospel , bindeth to faith and obedience , not only because it is gospel , but because also it is taught by a minister , for his calling sake , seeing christ hath said , whoso receiveth you , receiveth me ; they bind not only materially , but formally , for the synods sake . i see not how this can be answered , though indeed the discipline of n. e. and mr. h. say the contrary both of this and their own grounds ; for elders in synods put forth authoritative and pastoral acts , to these churches of which these elders are not proper and fixed pastors ; but pastors they are to these churches , as to all the churches of the combination , else they cannot warrantably put forth acts pastoral , for their feeding and governing to edification , except it be said , a synod is no ordinance of christ ; which all the brethren and mr. h. himself deny . all acknowledge a synod to be an ordinance of christ. but the truth is , they but mock the reader in so saying , for they give no more to it , but an act of charity , to counsel , as one brother counsels another : intuitu charitatis , saith the discipline of new england . and so mr. h. for , what . availes it more to say a synod is an ordinance of god , because they can give a charitative counsel , then to say one single believer is an ordinance of god , or a woman who can counsel a man ? the synod then is no positive ordinance of divine institution ; for upon the same ground , if a synod be an ordinance of god , because they may counsel the churches , we may appoint a new ordinance of a synod . for , first , one refuting . another for rebuking . a third for confirming . and a fourth for comforting . . it is but a mocking of the world , to say the association of churches is an ordinance of god , for they can give counsel to the churches of the bounds ( what may be replied , had i time , is soon washed away . ) but first , so can twenty other churches without the bounds of these churches ; so can many eminent christians in another congregation , not in office , give a counsel by way of charity to a synod convened synodically , shal they for that be a synod of a synod ? and shall they be an ordinance of christ distinct from a congregational church for that ? yea , abigail a woman , a captive maid , gave , the one a divine counsel to david , and the other to naaman the syrian . shall women therefore be made new ordinances of god ? and if neither the one counsel nor the other have any weight from the givers of the counsel , but only from the word ; it is in vain to name the one an ordinance of god , more then the other : as for reverence to the persons , a synod of elders , more then one single mans counsel , adds not the eighth part of a feather as touching authoritative weight to the counsel , if the synods counsel amount to nothing more in point of a divine ordinance ; then mr. h. saith , any counsel may lay a burthen upon any mans conscience ; so any christian that shall publish and preach that cor. . . flee fornication — may lay a burthen upon every soul , not from the authority of him that speaks , but because it is scripture that is spoken ; and this is all the authority of synods . would the lord appoint men , elders , and brethren , and churches to come many hundred miles to heal rent and spoyled churches , and the result of all is a meer counsel which a woman at home may give ? for the scripture by the law of nature warrants women to give this as well as men , sam. . , — , . sam. . , , . — , , . king. . , , . and god reveals to women , servants , poor ones , as much of this as to others of higher place . nor shall it help the matter , to say , it is safer to seek counsel from men then from women , from many then from one ; for in the multitude of counsellers there is safety . ans. it is true . but . this is no ground to seek to a synod of fathers and elders of the bounds of these , who are no pastors nor elders to us , and can put forth upon us no synodical , no pastoral acts ; upon this ground , we should select counsellors out of one or many churches , that have no relation to us ; and so this is nothing for such a synod , but only for many gracious counsellors , private or publick , nothing at all for a synod of elders . . when all is done , their counsel is but a counsel , that hath as much weight , as it hath conformity with the rule of the word , and so hath the counsel of a woman , or a servant . and it is considerable that the book of discipline of new england hath no chapter nor discourse of synods , which shews they little value them . mr. h. these authoritative actt which are put forth in other churches issue from him , either as a pastor , or as no pastor ; if as no pastor , then acts of iurisdiction may flow from him that is no ruler . mr. r. will gain-say this , if they proceed from him as pastor , then either as pastor of his own church , which cannot be ; or of another church , and then one man may have two pastoral offices . and all these churches must be either his flock , or not : his flock they must be , if he be shepherd to them , for that the nature of relatives requires , the combined churches are many distinct flocks , and he cannot be a pastor of many flocks . ans. this is the former argument with a new dress , quod fui● demonstrandum . but did mr. h. believe his topick probabilities would be received for demonstrations ? . to that , these acts proceed from him either as postor , or as no pastor . let him be a pastor to a congregation compassed about with nine single congregations in ierusalem , in convenient nearness , he feeds his own particular flock , as a fixed pastor actually imploying his constant labours upon them , and by the same pastoral office , as pastor habitu , actu primo , to all churches , and more nearly to these nine , he exercises acts of government for edifying all the ten in points of concernment , which necessarily must concern them all ; and it no more doth follow by a shadow of consequence , that he exerciseth two pastoral offices over many churches , then the same pastor exerciseth three pastoral offices , or four over his own particular flock , as if it were four flocks , because he preacheth pastorally to some , and administers the lords supper to others , as to strangers . , others as infants , he baptizes as unconfirmed members . or , . others he excommunicates . . others he converts as finding them no visible saints ; by one and the same office he feeds and governs all . . the same argument is retorted , archippus administers the lords supper ( as mr. h. his book of discipline , and mr. cotton teach , and the word warrants him to do ) to fourty godly visible saints out of fourty sister-congregations , either as a pastor , or no pastor , to these fourty ; either as to his own flock , or not his own flock , not as no pastor . mr. h. mr. cotton ( except they follow socinians ) and all shall gainsay that ; if as a pastor , then by mr. hookers argument , he must have pastoral offices over fourty churches . so the same argument destroys the synods , though some way soundly established by mr. cotton ; yea , mr. h. grants it is lawful to tender the seal of the lords supper to those of other congregations , yea , he is warranted by the word so to do , cor. . , . cor. . . eph. . , . eph. . , , , , , , , , . it is against the congregational way ; and it is not equal to bring , quod fuit demonstrandum , such strong demonstrations ( as he calls them ) against mr. r. and the presbyterian church , which destroyes his own congregational way . . if he act as a pastor and shepherd to them , his flock they must be , for that the nature of relatives require . this is a mistake of the nature of relatives ; for the adequate and complete correlate to which every ordinary pastor is referred as a shepherd to the flock , as a husband to the wife , actu primo , is all the churches on earth , as a physician is referr'd to all the sick on earth , not adequatly to this one sick person , but actu secundo , in the actual exercises of the ministerial calling , very pastor indeed now is refer'd to one flock , as a fixed providential feeder , and to these round about , the same way in acts of government that concern associate churches : but it follows not , as is said , that he is a proper fixed pastor to these churches round about ; for these words , feed the flock , which is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , amongst you , pet . . & act. . . take heed to all the flock over which the holy ghost hath made you overseers , have no such sense as feed the one single congregation only , as a husband to your wife , that is in ephesus , and beware of the spiritual adultery , of taking pastoral care of the other churches of christ that are , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , amongst you . mr. cotton saith , the church in the canticles ( and say i , the pastors also ) take care not only for her own members , but for her little sister , which she thought had no breasts , cant. . . and i hence infer , that a pastor is to take a pastoral care of the churches associate , acts . . cor. . . for they were among them as well as the single congregation . and when paul saith , take heed to the whole flock , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he meaneth not only a single congregation , but divers congregations and many sheep in the flocks of divers congregations , as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth not a few , but exceeding many in scripture , phil. . . tim. . . heb. . . tim. . . ioh. . . ioh. . . rev. . . mr. h. the presbytery are elders to the classical church , saith mr. r. ) in some respect , not simply 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not in things proper to each congregation , but in things common to all the united churches , to wit , in things which rather concern the consociation of the thirty churches ( about ) then the thirty churches combined in particular . by our saviours rule , matth. . ( saith mr. h. ) the offender is privately , first , to be rebuked . secondly , then before two . thirdly , before the church nearest the congregation . the classical principles admit not this . . suppose the man in his private fault continue obstinate , this obstinacy is re● propria , proper to the congregation , why may not the congregation without the presbytery then oast him out ? for this pertinacy was made known only to the congregation or church . object . but the neighbouring churches must avoid his company upon knowledge given . answ. so must the churches of another presbytery or classis , or of another province , and therefore there is no more need the one should have a hand in the censure , then the other . ans. . the congregation in private scandals by our principles ( which mr. h. it seems , knows not ) doth admonish , and the offended person is to admonish , according to the order of christ , matth. . . mr. h. taketh for granted , that the place matth. . is a rule for removing onely private scandals : . and that by the word ( church ) matth. . is meant onely his own independent congregation . . that christ , matth. shews of no removing of scandals between two visible saints dwelling in one christian family , who by the principles of mr. h. may by their own free choise be members of divers congregations : ( a strange dream ! ) . he supposes it must be onely one single man that trespasseth against a brother , but if ten , or many sister-churches transgress against sister-churches . learned whitaker , calvin , beza , pareus , all protestant divines , all fathers , all learned doctors , papists , lutherans , doctors , councels , all the martyrs who by the text matth. . appeal to a general councel , did but abuse the text , in applying it to synods : whereas tell the church , is now found to be onely the single congregation ; whereas the contrary is sure . there is a figure . in thy brother , for he means many brethren , within or without the congregation . . by trespassing , by a sydecdoche , he means all scandals ; else we were not to complain of publicke scandals to the church . . by the church , he means all churches respectively , as those of antioch , in case of scandalous doctrine , tell a synod , acts . . the obstinacy is not proper to that congregation , if publick , the offence of it stumbles the neighbouring churches . but . it will not follow , that all of another province should have hand in the censure , as well as the presbytery , because those of another province may hear of it , for that is non causa pro causa : for they are not in danger to be leavened , so as those that are nearer ; and the wisdome of christ hath accommodated discipline to our bodily craziness . for as when there be twelve thousand members at ierusalem , he will not have them all to meet at one house , since they have twelve apostles to teach them , but in sundry congregations , acts . . & . not can they partake of the seals in one house , nor can they personally watch over one another , as the new church-covenant teacheth : so neither will he have elders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in cities , where many thousands were baptized , purging their own body , and it s not to be supposed that actual government for ordinary scandals should be by the personal presence of the elders of remote presbyteries and provinces , far less of the elders of the whole catholick visible church . for nature , reason , and the practise of the apostles would say , except the scandal be more than ordinary wide and spreading , only the churches nearest to be edified or stumbled , should have hand in healing and censuring ; though the whole catholick and visible church have also here some influence , to wit , tacit and virtual in that common rule of discipline which regulates the whole catholick body , as is said hereafter . mr. h. the second difference assigned by mr. r. is , that the presbytery takes care rather of the regulating of the acts of governing in all these churches , than the governed churches . mr. h. they express their care in judicial acts , and that directly and immediately upon scandals and scandalous persons of any congregation . ans. mr. h. should have added my words to the full , that the reader might have seen my minde . what i speak comparatively , mr. h. would not hold it out to the reader , as if i meant it absolutely . for . the presbytery is glad that lesser evils be healed by rebukes within the congregation . . i deny not but the presbytery doth , and must directly and immediately judge greater scandals , especially between congregation and congregation , between elder and elder , and rulers and ruled of the same congregation , but ever under the former reduplication , as they are an associate body . mr. h. differ . the presbyterian elders are elders to all the churches , as the elders themselves are in collegio presbyteriali , and properly as they are in court. ans. but i assume ( saith mr. h. ) the elders there are proper pastors of their own particular congregations ; therefore they must ( if at all ) be so here . a pastor in an island cannot teach , admonish , excommunicate , but in coetu congregationali , or severed from his church , yet this hinders not but in these regards he is a proper pastor to them . ans. mr. h. yet halfs my words , and sets down one member of a distinction , and leaves out the other . they are elders to the churches in the presbyterial judicature ; but separatim out of that ( say i , pag. . ) they do not watch in such a way for all the souls of the presbyterian several congregations , as they do for the single congregations of which they are fixed pastors . and this is enough to make different relations pastoral ( which is my intent ) between the elders , in order to their own congregations , and to the associated congregations , as the elders of antioch are elders judging in the synod , acts . one way to ierusalem , and other to antioch , where they have their proper fixed charge to teach and rule : and i shall not stand to yield that they act as elders , and by the same office of eldership in the presbyterial , and in the congregational judicature , but an accidental difference there is . . it s most unfound that mr h. saith , that a pastor cannot teach , admonish , excommunicate , but in a congregational meeting . this is first to make him a congregational pope or prophet , as the papists do the pope , onely in cathedra , in the pulpit , or before the congregation . . all the dayes of the week , except in the actual congregational assembly , he is a private man by this reason . but the word shall warrant the pastor as a pastor to visit , to warn from house to house , col. . . acts . & . . & . . in season and out of season , tim. . . & . . for he does not these as a private gifted man. . by this reason a pastor is so a pastor , a husband , a watchman to the flock actually assembled onely , but not a pastor to give an account of this or that man or womans soul to god in the flock ; then if this or that man perish through the fault of the elder , who gave not warning , mr. h. hath taught the minister a good excuse : i cannot be charged as an unfaithful watchman with the blood of this single man who is lost , mr. h. saith , i am onely a pastor in relation to the flock assembled church-ways , but i am not a pastor nor watchman to one single man. but ah ! this distinction shall not save the man from the charge of blood ! ezek. . , , , . & . , , . & . , . heb. . . i would not have expected from such a mans pen such a tenet . . differ . the presbytery hath a church relation to all these thirty congregations not takin distributively , but collectively , as they are united in one church classical , and in one government . ans. if the presbytery put forth acts of iurisdiction upon these churches distributively , as they are severed , then they have a church-relation to them distr●butively . but they admonish and censure several persons of several churches . ans. . so do the synod elders at ierusalem , acts . put forth authoritative pastoral acts , by the grant of mr. cotton , upon the several churches distributively taken , yet are they not the proper pastors of these churches , and commissioners of parliament upon persons of a single city , but as they have failed not against the laws of that city , but against the general laws of the whole nation and parliament : but it follows not , that these commissioners are aldermen , or fixed judges of that city ; and so mr. h. his consequence is weak . mr. h. these presbyterial elders must exercise jurisdiction over congregational elders , which is conceived by mr. r. to be absurd . ans. pastors , with majority of official jurisdiction over pastors of another lower species , as bishops above pastors , i still look upon as absurd . but that elders in a synod exercise jurisdiction over elders of a congregation that are the same in nature and degree with them , is no more absurd , than for an eldership of a congregation to exercise jurisdiction over some two or three scandalous elders of their own number , which mr. h. will not call episcopacy . mr. h. mr. r. addes , elders of an independent congregation , are not elders of their single congregations , being separated from their courts . it seems a paradox , for if separated from their court , their office remain , then jurisdiction must remain . ans. it s not a seeming , but a real paradox , my words are halfed . i said , they are not elders separated from their court in the notion ( these are my words omitted by mr. h. ) of the relation of a church-jurisdiction ; for they can exercise no jurisdiction , neither excommunicate , nor relax from excommunication , being not in court , except they be prelates . but mr. h. addes a real absurd paradox , that they cannot exercise pastoral acts of teaching , but in the church-assembly ; which refuted before . mr. h. differ . congregational elders have power of order , and power of jurisdiction without the court , but they have not power of jurisdiction but in the court. elders have a power of jurisdiction as watchmen , but a power of church-jurisdiction they have not , but in the court. ans. i never heard that their entring into the assembly should adde a new power . . nor did mr. r. say , their entring and sitting in the court addeth a new official power ; they had the official power actu primo before , but they can no more put it forth in acts , being separated from the court , than a pastor might excommunicate his alone in his private chamber ; which were tyrannical and null . mr. h. the example of the great sanhedrim toucheth not the cause , or then destroyeth it : nor doth the example of commissioners of parliament ; for they get a new office to sit in parliament , but an elder of a congregation by sitting in the presbytery gets no new office . ans. it is a weak answer , to say it helps not , and not shew the cause , but to lead the reader implicitly : for the great sanhedrim ruled over all the tribes , and yet a judge out of the tribe of dan , though a member of the sanhedrim , did not rule over the tribe of benjamin , but onely in the sanhedrim , and in some common cases . the getting of a new office is neither up nor down ; the commissioners of parliament rule in that court over all the shires in the land , and by that commission every commissioner becomes not a major of every city , or a judge in every shire . and by mr. cottons grant , the elders in a synod exercise pastoral acts , and lay on burthens , acts . upon the churches , and get no new office thereby : but they do not for that become proper elders and pastors over every single congregation in the bounds of the synod . yet to mr. h. this is a principle , that if the presbyterian elders put forth pastoral acts upon all the congregations , then must they be pastors to all the particular flocks , for shepherd and flick are relatives , arg. . . but the conclusion is absurd . this is no less against mr. cotton , than against mr. r. and against himself , who admits strangers to the lords supper , &c. mr. h. it is obvious to every man , that the elder of the congregation hath the nature of an elder in general , and so can and doth put forth general actions , that are common to other elder . where the act is , the object must be , in its proportion ; and all this he doth without the classis in his particular station : for the species determines the act of the genus , as socrates confines the acts of the humans nature to himself : and it s known , the classis meddles with the particular offences , that are as special as any elder in an island , doth meddle within his owne place . ans. . it s obvious to all men , that mr. h. speaks new logick , obvious to the understanding of no man , i doubt , to his own . for the elders of a congregation , because independent , and subordinate and countable to none on earth , but to iesus christ ( as papists say of their wooden head the antichrist ) determine within themselves . suppose they he but some twelve of the twelve thousands at ierusalem , if these be once a formal covenant-wise married church of people and officers , they do determine of the doctrine of circumcision , of the doctrine of balaam , acts . rev. . . ( for pergamos is to them an independent flock ) and of arrianism , and of doctrines and scandals that concern many hundred churches about ; and whether they determine right or wrong , it s against the liberty and power christ hath given to that redeemed body , of ten and twelve to tell the churches : oh! they must not part with their soveraignty so ; or if they consult , it s but of courtesie : for , single pergamus is rebuked ( say our brethren ) for not using their church-power in a doctrine that concerned thousands as well as them . . what a mystery of logick this may be , who is so happy as to divine ? every particular elder can , and doth put forth general actions that are common to other elders : why ? the species determines the act of the genus . the reason contradicts the conclusion which it is brought to prove : for if socrates confines the acts of humane nature to himself , they leave off now to be general actions , and by being contracted to the species ( his species is socrates a single person ) they are now most special actions . mr. h. takes our meaning to be , that the members of synods and of the presbytery , determine of the ideal , general , abstracted nature of men , of doctrines , of actions in communi , that needs not ( saith he ) for the congregational elders put forth general actions , but confined and contracted to socrates : so doth the classis , the national , yea the oecumenick and general assembly put forth acts , determinations , both of general doctrines , and condemn them also , as confined and contracted to socrates , to balaam , to iezabel , to the nicolaitans , and to the single men of that impure sect. and acts . . the synod condemns some certain particular , individual men , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , some men from us have troubled you , and said , ye must be circumcised . now the abstracted nature of men disputed not and made not the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the rent , as v. , . but some single men . and this comes from another wilde notion of logick that mr. h. teacheth , that the catholick visible church is the genus , and under it is this or that independent church . of this hereafter . s● the church of boston is the catholick integral church : for , g●nus praedicatur de specie . mr. h. it s as undeniable , there be general acts in preaching and watching , which are common to all congregations , which the presbytery neither do , nor can dispense conscienciously , because the pastor cannot attend them : it will not suffice to say , he was pastor to the catholick church before , for then before the combination he had as good power to exercise jurisdiction , as any of them . this is against mr. r. who grants that one church hath not power over another . an. . it s undeniable , that the apostles who were pastors of the catholick church , could not attend acts of teaching and ruling in all the single congregations , for that is physically impossible . but mr. h. saith , it s morally impossible , and unlawful for a pastor to put forth a pastoral act in any congregation , but that to which he is married , more than a man can perform marriage-duties to any but to his own wife : which is shameful doctrine . . mr. h. frequently deviseth objections of straw , and then fires them at his pleasure , he knows mr. r. denies , that to be a pastor of the catholick church , gives so right to the apostle to preach and feed in bithynia , but there was need of a call of god going before , as is clear , acts . and so must pastors of the catholick church now have a call from presbytery and congregation , before they can lawfelly put forth in act their general pastorship which they have to the catholick church . nor is this against the church not having power over a sister-church , because a pastor of one congregation hath power joyntly in a synod to exercise pastoral acts synodical over many churches . chap. iv. the following arguments of mr. h. against a presbyterian church are removed . that the classical elders separate ruling from teaching , are prelates , non-residents and pluralists , and what not , by mr. h. his way . mr. h. that course which severs which god hath joined together is unlawful . but the classical combination doth this . ruling and teaching belong to the office of a pastor and teacher , they have the prwer of the keys , and there cannot be full binding and loosing , but by ruling and t●aching , act. . . pet. . , . both binding and loosing are required as nec●ssary to christs end , the gathering and perfecting of the saints , eph. . . ans. the assumption may import that the presbytery must be rulers , and by office , no teachers , as the prelate is , who by majority of power is the rule of the pastors , and they his deputies ; the so severing of teaching and ruling in the subject cannot be charged upon us , but that the severing of them in regard of the object , is no sort of dividing of those which god hath joined , is clear ; because the pastors teach some , and rule in common others associate . and mr. h. hath not proved the assumption . for , . elders in synods dogmatically and authoritatively teach , as mr. h. teacheth , par . . pag. . conclus . . therefore mr. h. himself separateth teaching and ruling . and mr. cotton saith more . . the people without officers may excommunicate all their officers , and so bind them , and receive them in again upon their repentance , and so loose them , as mr. h. teacheth par . , c. . pag. , . and yet the people cannot teach these officers as their pastors . is not here an irregular separating of ruling from teaching ? . such of the flock as are from their youth kept under by the terrors of god , ps. . godly elders , who are not to be rebuked , but intreated as fathers , tim. . . need not juridical church-binding and loosing , and yet need the preaching of the promises . then in regard of the act and object , exercise of jurisdiction may be severed from teaching . . pastors can exercise no jurisdiction , but only in the court , but pastors not in court may teach pastorally the whole flock . . the churches that meet in a synod , may exercise the power of non communion toward a church ( which is a church-governing , for their edification ) if the church obstinately maintain an heresie ; and yet the churches so convened cannot pastorally teach this church . let mr. h. see if he be not as prelatical as mr. r. if this be prelacy , i thought mr. h. had been better versed in the doctrin● of prelacy . mr. h. grand-fathers and fathers do bear a relation to the same children divers ways ( so mr. r. ) so then as a grand-father ( saith mr. h. ) cannot be both a grand-father and a father to the same child , neither can an elder be both a proper elder and a classical elder to the same congregation . answ. one man cannot be both a grand-father and a father to the same child . true ; nor is one man a proper elder to his congregation , and a classical elder to his own congregation ; for he is formally a classical elder , not to his own , but to all the associated congregations . . it is but a comparison , and so admits of halting ; a grand-father is a grand-father to his childrens children , but a father to his nearest children ; so the same man is a classical elder to all the associated churches , and a proper and providentially fixed elder to his own flock ; as one was both a priest to judge between blood and blood , and yet , if the matter was too hard , the same man was a judge and a member of the sanhedrim , deut. . mr. h. his last difference : the iudicature of classis and congregations do not differ formally ( saith mr. r. ) but onely in more or lesse extension of power . ans. then there are no specifical acts that the one puts forth , but the other can put forth , as occasion shall require ; gradus non variant speciem , then they can ordain officers and excommunicate in the congregation . he said before , if there be the same office , there is the same definition , and the same causes , to wit , of election , and choice of the classical , and of the congregational elders . ans. the difference is only of more or less , as of a river and the whole element , though divers learned men judge the congregation to be no governing church at all , but only their elders the delegates of the presbyterial church , which consisting of divers congregations is the first governing church . . there are no s●●cifick acts which the elders collectively taken , may not exercise in both the one and the other : but then shall it not follow , th●● a single cong●●gational eldership may ordain and ex●●mmunicate in one 〈◊〉 congregation there alone divided from the body ? for congr●…nal elders cannot teach o●derly ( and he is the god of ord●r , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his church ) in all the congregations without a cal● . nor . exercise the power of a synod in them all . . i 〈◊〉 this argument ; archipp●● hath the same office to the whole congregation , and to the single m●mbers who chused him , and whom he feeds ; or then he hath so many officer as there be chusing and fed members , ●●ught by the word and ruled , which is absurd : e●go , as the single vo●● of one member made him a pastor to one , and of a second made him a pastor to a second , and so forth . so the ●otes of the whole made him a pastor to the whole : for that is the same offic● th●● hath the same causes , and the same choice and election , saith m● . 〈◊〉 . ergo , where the same causes are not , the same office cannot be , but one single electing vote , and the electing vot●● of the whole church by mr. h. his way , cannot be the same causes , for one vote makes him not a pastor . . if archippu● hath the same office to the whole congregation , and to every single member , then as he 〈◊〉 pastoral acts of teaching and ruling to the whole , so to the parts and single members ; but this latter is denied by mr. h , page : who saith , that a pastor cannot put forth pastoral acts , but in the church assembly , a strange imagination ! mr. h. by the same official power ( saith mr. r. ) that a pastor teacheth his own fleck viva voce , he teacheth others by writing . ans this is a new invention that i never heard of before . . the official power , by which he preacheth , he receiveth by election , and he may be rejected from it by the people , in case of delinquency . . by his official power he may require them to hear , but may not require all churches to read his writings ; and if they offensively refuse to read , he cannot censure them , as he may censure them that refuse to hear the word . . if this power of writing of books , to edifie the churches , proceed from his office , all ministers by their office should write books . . that which another may do with as much authority , and more authority of truth , as being more able , yet being out of office , that cannot belong to the officer ; but to write books is such . ans. official power is not from election , but from the saying on of the hands of the elders , tim. . , . tim. . . tim. . . tim. . tit. . . . it is true , that a pastor cannot require by his office those of another congregation to hear him preach , and receive the seals from him , nor censure them , if they refuse ; but it is a bad consequence of logick , therefore he doth not exercise these pastoral acts to them by his office , as the brethren grant . . a minister by his office may require his hearers to give much alms , pray much , read and confer much , both these of his own and other flocks ; yet he cannot censure them for not coming up to the highest pitch of these affirmative duties , except he may rebuke them , and so may he do all who are remiss in reading edifying writings , and the church may censure unsound books , acts . . . neither mr. r. nor any judicious man can teach that either a gift to write books , or of eminent preaching , praying , exhorting , proceeds out of a power of office ; it is a sanctified gift which the church seeth and judgeth to be in any , before they call him to office ; and any gift is by order of nature and time before the office , and so proceeds not from the office ; and therefore it is not required that every pastor should have a gift of writing books , but if the lord have given it to any , they exercise it as such gifted officers as the prophets and apostles , as such prophets so gifted did write canonick scriptures ; so are pastors , if gifted , to write and preach in their way , and both to write and preach by their office . nor is it good logick , that all in office should write books . because some by vertue of their office writ books ; for a minister gifted with four talents is obliged to gain with these four talents , and that as a minister by vertue of his office ; but it is weak logick to infer , ergo , all ministers by vertue of their office are obliged to gain with four talents , for many are obliged by vertue of their office to gain with only two to their lord , and with only one . . it was needless to mr. h. to prove writing of books doth not belong to the power of office , because a learned man out of office may do it with more authority ; for mr. r. had no such intention . for , sure if such a thing agreed to the office-power , as the office-power , then all officers , pastors , elders were obliged to write books , and yet mr. h. does not very happily prove it , because many learned men unofficed may with more authority of truth write books , then officed men . it is only some officed men he must mean , or it is not true . and then i retort it thus ; many officed men may write books with more authority both of truth and of office ( and two are better then one ) then some unofficed men less learned . ergo , some gifted pastors do not as pastors so gifted , and by vertue of their office relating both to the presbyterian church , and their own congregation edifie all the churches about , by writing books . it follows not . mr. h. we are told that elders are ruling in all churches collectively taken , and they are teachers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in some reserved acts , not constant teachers , he that rules teacheth , but always the same flock . ans. take classical elders as they are congregational elders , and that is all one as to say , no classical elders , and then they are no teaching elders ; and all that is gained is this ; a classical elder as he is no classical elder , is a teaching elder . and so there is no distinction . ans. such quirks become not grave m. h. what is a synodical elder ? mr. h. saith a counselling elder . i reply , that is no elder , but a counselling brother or sister . but mr. cotton and our brethren say better . a synodical elder is an elder synodically teaching the churches with pastoral and dogmatick authority , without all power of jurisdiction , that is a synodical elder , as no congregational elder ( but as he judgeth in synod ) is a teaching and a ruling elder . then i infer , that al synodical elder must be both an elder and no elder . so animal as he is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is non h●mo , but he is viv●●s . it were easie to weary the reader with many wild unsolid notions , such like , ergo , animal is homo , non hom● . mr. h. so a pastor may be a teaching pastor to one church , and a ruling pastor to two or three , or thirty . this is a b●shop . obj. the b●shop arrogates thi● to himself alone . ans. shew a rule of christ , why the elders may not join many elders to join with him ; for you have no rule of christ to join many to him to rule many churches , nor hath he a rule to assume many to him . ans. not any of the separation ever refuted , with that strength of scripture , reason , antiquity , the domineeringg prelacy , as the godly presbyterians in britain , and the reformed churches . but so many thousand independent monarchies , and two congregational , or three elders ( for a deacon is for tables , act. . ) subordinate in point of jurisdiction to none on earth , is a more lively image of a domineering prelacy , then all the presbyteries on earth . . there is no rule to join other prelates or elders to a prelate : an unlawful officer , having power of jurisdiction , the only proper pastor , and all others are but pastors under him and his delegates . but mr. h. cannot say that the pastor of a congregation is an unlawful pastor , to whom so many bastard pastors are added , if he do , this shall reflex upon his own way ; for the synodical elder is a pastorally teaching elder to many churches , antioch , ierusalem , and also a teaching and ruling elder to one congregation by our brethrens way : is the synodical elder therefore a pastor of pastors , and a bishop ? and mr. h. cannot say but that there might have been divers congregations in ierusalem , and yet unformed churches ; and that the twelve apostles did feed and rule them all in common , and so shall peter teach one congregation at once , and rule many whom he cannot teach ( for physically it is impossible he can feed many at once ) and yet there was but one presbytery , and this we shall hear mr. h. confess hereafter . ergo , the twelve apostles and church-elders feeding many congregations not formed with fixed pastors shall bring in such sort of bishops , as mr. h. charges upon me . mr. h. if they do not both rule and teach , they cannot fulf●l their ministry . ans. how is it proved that pastors cannot fulfil their ministry , except they both rule all the churches with acts synodical , and their own congregations also ? . how is it proved that there is a blank in the ministry , except pastors both teach and rule these same persons ? some of the congregation are so experiencedly taught of god , that rebukes and censures of excommunication are never drawn out , nor need to be drawn out against them ; never interpreter so expounded col. . mr. h. if pastors be pastors and in office when they are out of court , then have they church-jurisdiction out of the court ; but the first is true . also censures sh●uld be dispenced in the congregation , and there they must preach also . ans. priests when not actu●lly sitting in the sanhedrim , members of parliament are members sitting in the house ; and pastors are elders actu primo , when not sitting in the congregational judicature ; ergo , they can exercise acts of jurisdiction out of court , in their houses ; and may the eldership preach out of the court ? it is a shame to hear such logick . . belike mr. h. thinks it unpossible to dispence censures , but the elders must preach : ergo , when the people excommunicate their whole officers , because heretical ; they must also preach pastorally : for it is pastoral ruling and teaching which makes a fulfilling of the ministry : but the conclusion is absurd , let mr. h. see to it . chap. v. the argument from the onerousness of presbyterial ruling of many churches , and of congregationally feeding of others , against the presbyterial church , are discussed . mr. h. the classical course layeth a burden upon teaching elders , which gods word never laid , and which they are not able to discharge ; the apostles appointed elders in every church to feed the fl●ck , not the flocks . mr. r. the way of watching over sister churches is as dreadful for onerous , careful , laborious watchfulness in the way of conscience , as to be bound thereto by way of duty ; for this bond of lovely and brotherly consociation , which is the foundation of presbyterial governing , ties us to doe no more in governing and helping other sister churches , then if we had no further warrant to promote their ed fication , then the alone relation of brotherly consociation . the sentence is ( saith mr. h. ) unperfect ; and therefore that it may reach his purpose , i think is must be thus expressed : the bond of brotherly consociation ti●th us to do no more in governing sister churches , then brotherly consociation simply can do , is true ; but impertinent to mr. r. his scope , which is to compare the bond and burthen between brotherly association and office-imposition , as if there were a parity between them . ans. . the classical course layeth no other burthen upon teaching elders , by way of united jurisdictions in governing neighbour churches that are the same body , and have the same seals common , as mr. cotton and his own discipline agrees ( as i often cite ) then the way of churches both associated by brotherly association , and by synodical and authoritative governing , as the same mr. cotton teacheth , and mr. h. saith it is true , but not pertinent ; and if it be true , why contend we ? . that it is not pertinent to my purpose , is denied : why ? because ( saith he ) mr. r. his scope is to make a parity and equality between the burthen of brotherly consociation and of office-imposition . but that is a change of my words , and therefore must lie upon mr. h. as his , not my words , except they be wrested ; nor is it my scope to make an equality in quantity , as if there were , as mr. h. most mistakingly saith , the like care , onerousness and labour required in duties of christian watchfulness in a brotherly way , as in duties of office relation : but in equality of onerousness of answering to god for duties , the like conscience , the like sincerity , the like faith of giving an account to god , is required in the one as in the other . and he leaves , upon this account , out the word , in way of conscience , or in fore dei , and saith my words are imperfect ; but wherein they are imperfect , he sheweth not , which maketh his own words imperfect : and therefore he turneth my negative , that we are to do no more in governing sister-churches , than in counselling and brotherly advising , into an affirmative never dreamed of by me . that brotherly association tieth us to do as much , as if we had no further warrant ; and t●… we are to do by his way as much in brotherly duties to all christians in other provinces or nations , in france , germany , holland with whom we can by no physical possibility be present , and whose faces we never saw , as we are to do , by fixed office , to the single congregations to which we have a providential call , by the election and choise of the people , for whom we are to search the scriptures , and study pleasant words , and for whose souls we are to give an account . but . it s a fruitless dispute to prove in sundry pages what mr. r. grants . . if he proved from my words ( from his own he may ) that these are necessary consequences , he had done as became a refuter . . he cannot from what i say deny , but granteth , that brotherly consociation tieth teaching elders to do no more in governing neighbouring churches , than brotherly advising , teaching , admonishing , tieth us unto , in point of onerousness and laborious care , and so it well follows , that there is no more laid upon presbyterial elders in governing neighbouring churches , than is laid upon their counselling , and brotherly advising elders , in point of daily occurring scandals , as is clear in the rise of familists , anabaptists , antinomians , &c. and many scandalous persons arising in sundry churches lying together . . the care and onerousness in brotherly watching , essentially , formally in rendring an account to god , as being keepers to our brethren all the world over , with whom we converse in other congregations , haply at our door , and occasionally , is as binding before god , as the care of teaching elders in exercising power of jurisdiction in collegio , and in things common to divers churches ; but it follows not , that christian love tieth me to all the positive means of warning my brother to go to germany , to america , to try and admonish all the scandals that are committed there . . this same argument is thus retorted upon mr. h. if the apostles , as church-members , as believers , be obliged all the world over , to eat the lords supper , as paul did at troas , acts . . a● corinth , cor. . and in all the churches on earth , to eat and receive the lo●… supper , not as an apostle with an apostolick , but with a faith common to all christians ; then must he be obliged as a christian with the like care and onerousness to leave his calling of an apostle & to go to all places on earth , to remember the lords death , and as a christian to lay down preaching , planting of churches , working of miracles , and to teach , rebuke , as a christian , in all places . it s not enough to say , that the apostles . were priviledged persons , and so might eat the lords supper all the world over , for they eat not the lords supper as apostles , but as believers , who were to try and examine themselves , and so d●●ncerningly to remember the lords death until he come again , as other believers were . . is it enough to say , they were occasionally onely to discharge these christian duties , as they should be locally present , for so are teaching elders to perform official duties to these neighbour churches with whom they occasionally converse in the occasional emergency of scandals : and if pastors were in africa or america , they might , without any new ordination or official call , preach and govern as physicians of souls . but by mr. h. his way , the lord in the day of judgment might say , thou wast a member of that body , with which thou hadst a right to ●at the lords supper in all churches on earth ; therefore i require at thy hand the blood of them that are lost in america , because thou watched not over all the christians on earth , which is physically impossible . and i require at paul preaching in the the w●st , th● blood of such as perished , when he was miles absent from them , for paul had an officiall call to all the believers on earth . as mr. h. saith , our presbyterial elders must give an account for souls that are lost in all the presbyterial , provincial and national churches on earth , and go all the world over to cure scandals , leaving their own calling of merchandize . but by this ( saith mr. h pag. . ) a pastoral care is f●r more enerous and laborious than christian and brotherly care in some sense . i grant all , and there is nothing proved against me , who say , that this ties teaching elders to no more in governing sister churches , in point of binding the conscience to answer for them , as far as they have power in matter of common concernment , for the wel being of all the near hand associated churches , then brotherly consociation can do . and mr. h. page . saith this is true , and yet in some sense pastoral care is far more onerous and laborious , to wit , in using more means in watching fixedly over a congregation , by constant preaching in season , and out of season , in standying pleasant words , administring the sacraments , &c. nor did i ever say any thing to the contrary . mr. h. an eminently gifted man in an island , where no pastors are , is no less ( saith mr. r. ) tyed in conscience in the extraordinary imployment of his calling , then if he were formally ordained and chosen their pastor . in some extraordinary cases a gift and christian love ties even as much to onerousness in using means to save , at the office it self . see what i add in that place , ( mr h. saith ) then this gifted man in an island , in using his generall calling as a christian , destroyes his particular , as a merchant , and turn minister . . this is to confound the general and particular calling . ans. not at all , for in this case , the extraordinary necessity of gaining souls , when other pastors cannot be had ; and ordination and election by that means are invincibly wanting hic & nunc , turns his christian calling in place and room of the particular calling of a pastor ; and so mr. r. said well , that in some extraordinary case like this , the naked r●lation of iurisdiction addeth nothing to care and onerousness in point of labour , by preaching the gospel . mr. h. if we have a divine command ( saith mr. r. ) to be our brethrens k●epers , then our christian watch in that regard requires as much onerousness and care as office watch . it follows not ( saith mr. h. ) am i bound by office to watch no more over the people left to my pastoral care , then as a christian over these of another province , whom i am occasionally only to gain , and whose faces i never saw . ans. mr. h. leaves out the words , in point of conscience to answer for them to god , which i have . otherwise in regard of using of more means , he is obliged to more constant feeding , by word , seals , dayly watching over the single flock , then over all christians on the other side of the sea , and some thousand miles distant from him . but if the foundation of governing classical churches be the love and union of the members of one body of christ , then there is much care , onerousness , and labour , which is required in brotherly consociation to help , as the care & onerousness which is required in officership . mr. h. ans. the proposition hath no truth , because i love all consociated in one synod , whom i never saw , and with whom i could never meet to do good , or receive good . but if i should be bound to put forth the like onerous and laborious care for their spiritual good , as for these , to whom by way of office i am bound in the same congregation . then officers must either do too little , or be bound to do too much . ans. this is neither my argument , nor my words : my words are , par. pag. . now if we distinguish onerousness , care and labour by way of jurisdiction , the former is as great in foro dei , in the court of conscience , as the latter . these words are left out by mr. h. qua fide ; let the reader judge ; for the toil , care , onerousness and labour in point of conscience in the kind , and sphere ; i urge in both , by necessity of a divine command : but the like care , onerousness and labour in quantity , in the use of more means , in constant preaching , personal comforting , to all the christians on earth , as to the single congregation , i utterly deny . but can mr. h. deny but the apostles and brethren , act. . did ow as much care , onerousness , and labour in a binding conscientious way in laying on synodical burdens , which bind not onely ( saith mr. cotton ) materially for the weight of the matter imposed by divine precept , but also formally from the authority of the synod , upon the churches of ierusalem , antioch , syria , cilicia , as any pastor ows to his single flock ; and that because these churches are all one consociated body ? and yet elders of the synod were never to see the faces of all these members of the churches . and i put this quere to the brethren , what warrant of christ is there that a member of an independent church ow church-care to watch , teach , admonish , rebuke , comfort , as col. . . heb. . . thes. . to a fellow member of the same congregation only , and ow no church-care to another brother , dwelling in the same house with him , having with him the same faith , the same baptism , the same lord , the same covenant of grace , the same saviour , only because he is a member of another independent church ? mr. h. arg. . if they be pastors over all the congregations of the circuit , then they were new chosen by the congregations , or not , &c. ans. this is a repeated blast of an old horn ; there is this required , that churches about , by their silence approve him as pastor to one single congregation ; but that all congregations make a special election of him to be their fixed pastor , is no more required , then that the churches of antioch and ierusalem chose the apostles and elders , who yet act. . exercise pastoral and official acts over them by the grant of mr. cotton and our brethren . they are elders of ephesus , i. e. of enery congregation of the combination , as all the kings , if they were met in one royal court to govern the nations , in things of common concernment to all , yet are called the kings of the nations . these are words ( saith mr. h. to darken : ) the elders met here , have a new power distinct from the power over their several congregations , a commission , i. e. a new creature . the kings if so convened , have a joynt power of confederate princes , to act in things of common concernment , and if that power were distinct from the particular power that they have over their own territories , the comparison were parallel . ans. we may suppose such a convention of kings , the commissioners or m●ssengers of the churches have no new office , but only are met to determin of such a thing as disturbs the churches , act. . they differ as elders , and such elders sent and nominate by the church , and act as elders by the same official power common to elders that are not sent , and are called by the church apostles and elders , act. . . & . . & . , . then sending and commissionating is a condition of order appointed by the god of order , no devise of men : and the churches submit to them as to no new office . but . as to the messengers of the church , and gracious and sound elders . . if they speak according to the law and the testimony , not otherwise , and the answer is as much against act. . and against mr. cotton and all that are for synods , either juridical or consultative , as against mr. r. for they go to synods , who so go by a new power of order , not by a new office . mr. h. this course nullifies the power of elders , and propl●●f a congregation , and their proceeding in a righteous way ; for the classis may judge a member to be excommunicated , whom the congregation judgeth . and that truely not worthy of that censure ; here the power of elders and people which act in a way of christ is wholly hindered . ans. this weak argument is fully answered by me before ; that government , which of its own nature hinders and nullifies the righteous proceeding of the congregation is not a power from christ. true ; but now the assumption is false : for the presbyterial power added to the just power of a congregation does strengthen , and not nullifie the power of the congregation that government , which by accid●nt , and abuse of their power in over voting two elders , who proceed according to the rule of christ , hinders and nullifies right proceeding in on● single act , is not from christ , is most false : for because an abused power , and abused government is not from christ , it follows not that the power and government it self is not from god. i added an answer to this in my book which mr. h. passeth over in silence . suppose the congregation and synod agree in the truth , as they do act. . will you say that peter , paul and iames , their power is nullified , and their three votes are swallowed up in that greater convention ; because to their power is added in this dogmatical determination , the power and voices of the rest of the apostles and elders ; yea , and some say of the whole church , act. . , , . & . . & . , . so say that the congregation of thyatira ( suppose it so to be ) by assuming to themselves a huge number of elders and visible saints shall by over-voting the former congregation , conclude that iesabel shall still teach and seduce . mr. h. cannot say , that the added power of the elders and members of it self is not of christ , but rather their abusing of their power in that wicked act , is not from christ ; for the adding to the church two thousand to three thousand , to make five thousand is lawful , act. . mr. h. to this mr. r. answers , de jure , the power of the greater in this case ought to be swallowed up of the two voices of the elders of the congregation . but saith mr. h. so the weaker should overbear the stronger , the part the whole . . this opens a gap to endless dissention , the fewer say we have the truth , the other , we have the truth , and who shall be the iudge ? aus . mr. a. citeth my words ( as frequently elsewhere ) so here imperfectly , and mutilates the sense , if their power and voices be against the truth ; it is fit that many voices be swallowed up by two , iure in fore dei : for christ gave no power to thirty to erre , and to excommunicate an innocent person , he hath given no power , but to edifica●ion , cor. . . cor. . , . but i said not that iure ecclesiastico , the fewer , and the part , should overbear the many , and the whole . and what will mr. h. say , the fewer names in sardis judge that a iezabel should be excommunicated ; the whole saith no. the fewer say we have truth , the whole say , we have truth ; by the brethrens way no remedy , but be the matter heresie , or scandals , incest and parricide , the larger part of every single congregation in the midst of . sound churches hath a power independent , and from which there is no appeal on earth , to excommunicate the few names that are in sardis and keep their garments clean . if ye say , so is it in a national , in an oecumenick councel by the presbyterian way : i answer in either the one or the other ; if there be a manifest departing from the faith , and the man of sin sit in the temple of god , and the fornications of babel be multiplyed , the fewer and weaker being sa●ior pars ecclesiae , the sounder part are ( as mr. h. saith , iure in the court of heaven ) the church . mr. h. arg. . this course cannot attain its end appointed by our saviour , whose wisedom fails not , nor can be frustrate in its preparation . but the classis excommunicating , when the elders and congregation refuse to submit , would be of no force . ans. let the larger part of the congregation by three votes excommunicate a godly sound man , and descern an arch-heretick to preach , as a godly socinian ; where is the end of christ attained by you ? . it is an arminian and unsound tenet to condemn the wisdom of christ , because he draws not his ordinances , gospel , promises , precepts , seals , censures , according to his irresistable decree , by which the infinitly wise lord cannot come short of his end intended of the ordinances themselves , finem operantis ; for his counsels and decrees must stand , isa. . , . ps. . , . rom. . . and who hath believed our report ? isa. . . some , yea many stumble at christ and the word , isa. . , . pet. . . rom. . shall we accuse the ordinances , the gospel and seals , because god attains not the end , the salvation of the hearers ? how unjust is it to accuse the wisedom of god for this sinful folly of men ? but the lord draws his ordinances and seals according to his approving will , and thereby his wisdom attains the end , finem operis , which is to save and render unexcusable ; and though the classis be divided from the congregation , and the congregation be divided , the fewer keeping the rule , and the greater number erring : this is no more a just ground of challenging the immaculate and spotless wisedom of god in the ordinance of presbyterial censuring , then we may challenge christs coming in the world , to bring the sword , not peace , matth. . . his ordinances are media nata apta , of their own nature apt to bring union between the classis and the congregation ; if it fall out otherwise , the blame is in mens corruption . there were answers given to these arguments by me ; mr. h. would not set them down , nor remove them , as he answers , but in halfs and parts . chap. vi. some seeming inconsistencies mistaken by mr. hooker , are cleared . mr. h. pastors as they stand in relation to the congregation , and in reference ( saith mr. r. ) to the classis , have not two , but one office , page ; . and yet they are elect to the office of a pastor in the congregation , l. . & l. . pag. . but not elect to the office of a pastor in reference to the classis , l. . . which is very strange , since there is but one and the same office . ans. is it strange that mr. cotton and the dissenting brethren teach ; elders in reference to the synod , and elders in reference to the single congregation at antioch , and at ierusalem have but one and the same office of elders ; for they are not twice elders , nor two sort of officers , by reason of these two relations . if they be , say it out , and yet these were elect pastors in order to their congregations , and chosen to employ their labours constantly there onely , as married husbands to their wives . so mr. h. par . . c. . pag. , , . and yet neither mr. h. nor mr. cotton can say they were elect to the office of pastors in reference to the synod , though they exercise pastoral acts in reference to the synod ( cotton keys . c. . p. . mr. h. par . . ) and the associated churches . is not this strange ? for the eighth argument repeated from survey , c. . arg. . pag. . is answered . . i ●esire the reader also to consider my words , pag. , . the congregations acknowledging and consenting to the classical presbytery , do tacitly chuse and consent to the common charge and care that every pastor hath , as he is a member of that common court , which d●th concern them all . and therefore when mr. r. saith , that pastors are not elect to the office of a pastor , in reference to the classis ; the sense is in every page known to be , that pastors are not chosen to be fixed and constant feeders of all the congregations of the classis , because they feed and rule in things of common concernment . mr. h. the power of a congregation , and of a presbytery , and their acts ( saith mr. r. ) differ not essentially . but elders ( saith mr. h. ) do , and must preach , watch and feed , by vertue of the essence of their office , therefore they have acts formally d●fferent . ans. that elders do act as elders , and put forth specifick acts of elders in the congregation , and in the presbytery ; ergo , their acts in one differ in nature from the acts in the other : it no more follows then this , peter laughs to day , ergo it shall be rain to morrow . that elders must constantly and fixedly teach and feed the churches , whom they govern synodically , is denied by mr. cotton : and that they must put forth all the acts of the essence of the office , and that constantly and fixedly to all the churches congregational , presbyterial , synodical , to which they are referred as pastors in their several relations respectively is most false . mr. h. if it be one and the same office of a pastor to the classis , and to a congregation , as mr. r. saith , l. . . then the office relates one and the same way to both the classical and congregational church ; then if the congregational church be their proper flock , so must the classical church be , quae sunt idem inter se , sunt idem uni tertio . ans. the first consequence is naught ; if it be the same office , then the office relates the same way to both the classical and congregational church . a pastor hath the same office to the whole congregation , and to one single man , to whom he preaches ; for he is not two pastors , one to the whole , and another to the part . an elder is the same officer to antioch , and to the synod at ierusalem , act. . for he is not two officers in reference to these two . but it follows not that the office relates the same way to one man , and to all the congregation ; nor is he referred to the synod as the fixed and constant feeder of the synod , but he is referred to a congregation of antioch , as their fixed and constant pastor ; it is wild logick , that one and the same office must relate , one and the same way , to one and to ten hund●●d , to the adequate , and to the inadequate correlate ; and these that are one in one faith , one baptism , one lord , one and the same seals , it will not follow that they are one every way , but in illo uno tertio . for the whole congregations on earth are one in all the essentials of a church , one faith , one lord , but it follows not that all the congregations on earth are but one single congregation . the thumb is referred to the hand , as a member , and also to the whole body as a member ; yet it is referred to the hand as a nearest and proper member ; but to the whole body in a more common relation , as the toe is referred to the body , yet is not the toe a part of the hand as the thumb is , but both are parts of the body . mr. h. the combination of churches gives no office , and so no power to the elders of many churches , for they were elders before the combination . ans. that they were elders before the combination , and made and ordained by the laying on of the hands of the people , which is your homogeneous church , is an unwritten tradition . . the tacit consent of sister-churches even before the formal combination is enough on their part , who neighbour with them to make them elders . m. h. would you see a pastor that hath the formal essence of a pastor , and yet never did , nor is bound to preach ? it is the classical elder . . the pastor may preach in his own congregation , and minister the sacraments ; but 〈◊〉 presbytery keeps the key of jurisdiction . . the classical elder is not bound to preach to them , over whom he hath jurisdiction . and this is the bishop . ans. a bishop is rather a pastor to pastors , then to the churches : envy cannot say this of the elders of the presbytery . . the formal essence of a pastor is not in being fixed to one congregation , as a husband to a wife ; so that it is adultery to act as a pastor either in a synod , or in another congregation , as mr. h. teacheth ; for so elders in a synod , apostles and evangelists should not have the formal essence of pastors . . it is false that he is not bound to preach and minister the seals to another congregation , or members thereof , if he be called thereunto . but the bishop is a byshop ex officio , is bound to preach to none , but a sermon to the clergy once a year , and not that he may be a bishop and never preach . . the pastor of a congregation as a pastor hath power of jurisdiction in collegio , and hath no majority of jurisdiction and ordination at all , as the bishop hath . . the pastor of a congregation , yea , all the officers thereof , poor men have no jurisdiction without the people , yea , the people without them have majority of jurisdiction to make and unmake all the officers , which is the formal essence of a prelate by mr. h. his way ; the prelate is the virtual church : tell the church , i. e. tell one single man , the prelate , who need neither do by vote , or consent of other elders or people , as the prelatical way teacheth . our elders are neither over the saith of the people , nor can they dispence censures contrary to the mind of the godly . so mr. h. hath not found the prelate with us : but the male , church which is above all their officers , and all others is the prelatical church . but what if the elders meet and confer this pow●r of sole iurisdiction upon one man , and make him more then a moderator ? ans. what if the firmament fall ? if they make a bishop , they make a bishop . i cannot stand ; but see more of the prelates their majority , pride , dignity , priviledges in the authors cited , in nature and essence distinct from our elders , or from synodical elders , against whom the argument fights with the like strength as against us . what famous independents have refuted prelacy , i or a few can read . mr. h. what rule of christ condemneth the churches of error , for giving the power of jurisdiction to one man , but will condemn the i●vesting many elders with jurisdiction over many churches ? let mr. r. give me one place of scripture , or one sound reason for it ; that one may be a pastor to a people , by whom he was never chosen , &c. ans. the places of scripture that tell us the elders of ierusalem were over so many as their constant officers , who could not meet in one congregation , declare they had jurisdiction over that church , otherwise elders of that church they could not be : but they could not all of them be chosen their elders constantly teaching in all the congregations ; for that was unpossible . and our grounds for a presbyterian church , and for presbyterian elders are these . . to appoint elders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in every city . tit. . . is to appoint a colledge , or church-officers in every church , the town , or city of samaria receiving the gospel . . as many , even from the greatest to the least , as were bewitched by magus , act. . . . . both men and women were baptized , v. . and so were made a church . . the number being above the strength of philip , and so more then one congregation , they stood in need of peter and iohn , v. . to help in the work . . the first samplar church of ierusalem is one church in government , for their elders are called the elders of the church of ierusalem , act. . , , . & . , . & . . & . . but that this church was not all one congregation , is clear . . from the multitude thereof , act. . . three thousand . . act. . . five thousand . and then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , multitudes of men , and women , act. . . and yet they were multiplied , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , exceedingly ; and a great company of the priests ( hard mettal to be wrought upon ) was obedient to the faith , act . . . they meet in sundry places from house to house , act. . . & . . for the celebration of the lords supper , breaking of bread ; nor is it like they durst bring into the temple the new seal of the supper . the dissenting brethren refused that . . the multitude of twelve preaching apostles for some years , and seven deacons for the poor , declare , that in . such a plentiful harvest , . in such a necessity of gathering souls . . of preaching in season , and out of season ; that one apostle could not preach to one congregation , the other eleven hearing , that were twelve reapers all in one ridge , in one single congregation , where eleven that time must be silent . . the apostle spoke with divers tongues , that these of all nations understood , act. . , , . therefore in divers meetings ; nor is it clear , that all the three thousand heard peter : the text saith ( v. . ) they that heard were pricked , act. . . the rest of the apostles also spoke , as mr. h. thinketh . . what agreeth to the apostles as elders , agreeth to all elders , but the apostles act. . as elders , not as apostles ( which is a presbytery of twelve elders over divers congregations ) chose deacons , lay hands on them , and praying ordain them , v. . and use the joynt concurrence of the people for the chusing of them , as a standing example to the churches . now what they do as apostles either in writing scripture , working miracles , speaking with tongues , &c. they neither seek nor need the help or occurrence of others , either people , or any else . there is no ground to say that all these thousands meet in solomons porch , act. . . at one act of divine worship congregational , or that they were all joyning in one and the same prayer , or that they returned ( to wit , peter , and iohn ) to their own , that is , all the thousands , but to the apostles , who spoke the word with boldness , act. . , . nor doth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , multitude , note every individual person , man and woman , mat. . . the whole multitude of the gadarens besought christ to depart : festus , act. . . all the multitude hath deal● with me about paul. luke . . the whole multitude were praying without . see the reverend assembly at westminster . they meet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in every house ( it notes a church-meeting , act. . . & . . & , , . rom. . . cor. . . phil. . . ) but that all these thousands interessed in ordinances and government ( as the brethren say ) meet for the same word , breaking of bread , government and censures , in the same house , needs no refutation , it refutes it self . . the church of rome , though one body , had many members , rom. . and could not be one single congregation . . in it were many churches lesser , as the house of aristobulus , rom. . . of narcissus , v. . & . philol●gus , ne●ea , iul●us , and all the saints w●th them , v. . the church at the house of aquila and priscilla : many teachers and fellow-helpers , ve●s . , , . . the church of thessalonica could not be one single congregation ; their faith being heard in all achaia and all places , thes. . , , . of them paul gloried in all the churches , v. . paul at one sermon converted of them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a great mul titude , and of devout women , act. . . not a few : also what must be the growth of that church , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. . . when they tarried at antioch , steph. some time , beza not a little time . paul and barnabas continued there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with many other teachers ; and when god layeth the dayly care of all the churches upon one man , cor . . and upon other eminent members of the same body , that the lord sent so many eminent teachers , and prophets to one congregation only at antioch , at corinth , who can believe it ? . the church of eph●sus had divers congregations , if not more then one , cor. . . the churches of asia salu●● you , aquila and priscilla salute you much in the lord , with th● chur●h at their house . so marlorat , so par●us and b●za on rom. . see the english divines on the place , and diodati . there were divers small assemblies in one and the self same city . see cor. . . col. . . so were church-assemblies ordinary for praying in the house of mary , act. . . joh. . , . in an upper chamber , at preaching , praying and chusing of an apostle , act. . . praying and baptizing in the house of iustus , act. . , preaching in the scho●l of tyrannus , act. . preaching . c●lebrating of the lords supper in a house of troas act. . , . & . . & . . the assembly of divines at westminster proveth that there were more congregations then one at ephesus . . that there were many elders over them as one flock , act . , &c. . that these congregations were one church , rev. . to which adde , . the multitude of converts luke saith , act. . , . three times 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , all the iewes and greeks in asia and at ephesus heard the gospel , a great door there was opened , sorcerers converted , act. . and paul giveth direction to timothy , how he should govern in the house of god. tim. . , . at ephesus , tim. . . upon whom he should lay hands , tim. . . tim. . , . tim. . . to what faithful men able to teach others he should commit the ministry , tim. . . had it been a single congregation , where one might teach at once only , what needed such watching over false teachers , speaking perverse things , and gathering disciples and churches out of one single church , act . , , . and trying of false apostles , rev. . , , . who were not sent to one single congregation , and there hath been need to take heed to such as speak lies , sow unprofitable questions , tim. . , , , , , . tim. . , . tim. . , , . and so there must have been many preaching elders there . . at corinth there have been many instructers , cor. . . many doctors and prophets , cor. . , , . . though there be many churches in galatia , gal. . . yet must they be one lump , who have power to judge and censure false teachers , gal. . . and there is a church restoring made by spiritual officers , gal . . otherwise they might have replied , we galatians have no power in one body to cut off a troubler who infecteth the whole lump , every single congregation is to see to that , and the troubler is without our churches , save to one only single independent power , say our brethren . . it s not possible that the churches can send their common messengers whom they choose , cor. . , . except the churches convene , men , women and children , or then convent in elders of many churches , or the apostles must have gone from church to church to beg suffrages and votes : which sort of election is never heard of in any writer sacred or profan● . as to the first , who can believe that men and women and children capable to hear and be baptized also ( which is the onely church of believers owned by our brethren ) the externally covenanted and redeemed did send the apostles to ierusalem ? or received the apostles , and did welcome them ? or salute the saints , as act. , . rom. . act. . , , ? therefore need for it , the second must be said . that the churches in their heads , rulers , officers , sent them , which is a very presbyterial church . . if divers churches meet for laying on burthens by power of the keys , as m. cot. saith , & exercising acts of church-government , then there is a presbyterial church governing without and above a single congregation , by pastors neither chosen to be fixed and constant teachers , nor that can possibly teach many congregations . but the former mr. cotton and our brethren teach . obj. this is no church-power ( for a synod is not a church ) b●cause it is no church-jurisdiction . ans. . the antecedent is false . . the consequence is naught . a number of private christians wanting all official authority , so might lay on synodical burthens binding materially , if this be no church-power . . they are called the decrees of apostles and elders , act. . . written and concluded . act. . . saith iames , act. . . it seemed good to the apostles and elders , with the whole church , to send chosen men . now whether church note the apostles , elders and brethren , or the multitude of believers onely , or the church of ierusalem , made up of both , the decrees must come from church-power , governing , teaching , uniting and removing a schism . though it were no power of jurisdiction , yet here is a church-power above a church , except it be said that so many pastors of the same or of divers churches , or so many private christians commissionated from no churches , made the synod , act. . and synodically said , it seemed good to the holy ghost , and to us . but this shall no more import the promised presence of christ to such as are convened in his name , mat. . . . & . , , . ioh. . . than if so many private christians had been convened , and so may such of a sister-church remove all schisms , and a synod shall be nothing at all . . if christ build the power of binding , loosing , gaining upon brotherhood , mat. . if thy brother offend , &c. then as far as brotherhood goes , if i possibly can converse with him , and may be offended or edified by him , so far must the power of jurisdiction be extended ; because these two , the gaining of a brother , . the safety of the church by edifying of others , and removing of scandals , are intended by christ. mat. . but brotherhood is without the bounds of the congregation whereof i am a member ; rom. . salute the brethren that are with them ; cor. . . all the breth●en salute you . these were brethren of other congregations . . if there be no church-tye upon me to gain any but those of mine own congregation : then . there may be communion of saints onely within the same congregation , and no communion of churches : what scripture is for this ? . it must be the will of christ that we bestow no church-rebukes upon other churches ; which must be contrary . to christian love , to save others . . contrary to zeal for the lords glory . . spreading the gospel . . desire to remove scandals . . to be made all things to all men , to save some . . to serve one another in love . . to promote the common interest of the whole catholick body of christ. . it s against our praying for the church , and that all israel may be saved . . against the doctrine of our brethren , who say , that churches ought to rebuke , exhort , warn , comfort churches . . it s against the communion of spiritual priviledges of one head and saviour , one covenant , one god , one faith , &c. it s not enough to say , we are the same body entitativè , for that entitative body without this congregation , is either visible or invisible ; if visible , then members of divers congregations are of the same visible body : and to say that other congregations are not as visible as that whereof i am a member , to me and others about , is to deny twice three to be six ; for one christ , one faith , one profession , the same seals , are as visible in a church within few paces to me , as in the church whereof i am a member : to say it is invisible , is to speak against sense . chap. vii . of a church in an island . mr. h. if a church in an island may dispense all censures , and all ordinances , then every congregation may : but such a church may . for . it is a city and a little kingdome of christ. . the essential notes of a visible church agree to it . ans. the consequence from a broken arm to a whole arm is not good : or , because iames the day before he be beheaded in strong prison , cannot discharge all christian duties to brethren , and to neighbour churches , therefore he is not actu primo a christian. a church in an island is not actually associated with other churches , and so cannot in the full extent dispense all ordinances of rebuking , comforting neighbour churches , and of withdrawing communion from them , because of the want of the object , not because of defect in the subject : i might retort the argument , therefore associated congregations cannot dispense all ordinances of rebuking , comforting , &c. but the latter is absurd . . an homogeneal church in an island void of pastors and men able to teach , cannot administer the seals by mr. h. his way . . a church so divided , and not associated , is imperfect , and may remove scandals within it self ; but it follows not , ergo , every associated church may remove scandals within it self , and without it self also independently , and without any subordination to united powers of the associated congregations , it follows not , the notes of a visible church agree to such a church imperfectly ; except it be said , that the same church from its own intrinsecal and internal independency can dispense censures , it proves nothing ; but the independency here is extrinsecal and objective , and so accidental , and the affliction , not the power of jurisdiction in this church . mr. h. there be all the officers in such a church in an island , and all the operations , operari sequitur esse — and the end is the same in both , the perfecting of the body . ans. there be neither all the church-operations , because there is no dispensing of pastoral acts , censures , church rebukings , church-warnings to neighbour churches ; nor is there the same adequate end , which is the perfecting of the visible body round about , as far as may be , which is the complete end of an associated church : the perfecting of one single congregation , is a mangled and imperfect end . mr. h. ground . where there is an office or power appointed of god , there needs no other power , but the office to authorize the work . ans. there is nothing more false . every pastor hath a power to preach , but there is need of a call of god to preach to macedonia , not to bithynia , acts . there is need of a call to preach fixedly to this , not to this flock , and to ossociated churches . . how is it proved ? its but begged that there is a power independent in an associated congregation . mr. h. if the power be the same , and the end the same , the power must be vain , if it be not put forth to the end : the power and institution of christ should be wronged , if it should be hindred in attaining its end . ans. this is also a false ground . power of admonishing , of rebuking , of preaching , is not wronged , when the object , to wit , neighbouring churches , are not ; and the lord cannot wrong his own institution . it s a carnal reason , to say an institution is in vain , & a power , when they are not put forth in all possible acts . steven is stoned , iames is beheaded , paul imprisoned , the church scattered , that they cannot by a physical impossibility meet to remember the lords death , preach the gospel , dispense censures , is therefore the power given by christ to do all these in vain ? mr. h. neighbourhood of other churches , is but a separable adjunct , it can adde nothing to the constitution , and so to the operation of the church ; for death and dissentions may take away some churches , and may nullifie them . ans. this is for me . neighbour churches are extrinsecal to the nature of a church in an island : ergo , the church in the island hath a ministerial and official power actu primo to rule , and joyntly edifie the neighbour churches , if they be . if any say evah was accidental to the nature and to the operations of adam , will it hence follow , a power of procreating children is accidental also to adam ? no more does it follow from the notexistence of neighbouring churches , that the church in the island hath no power to edifie , and joyntly rule those nighbouring churches , its poor logick , because the object is not , to remove the power : such a man is in a dark dungeon , ergo , he hath no visive faculty ; and because light and colours adde nothing to the visive faculty , or to its nature and essence ; ergo , if light and colours be removed , the visive faculty is removed . so associated churches are accidental to the church in an island ; ergo , that church is deprived of all politick power to govern associated churches , if they were , it follows not . mr. h. suppose a church be gathered in a wilderness , any latter church planted beside it , cannot binder nor abridge the liberty , power , authority and operations , that all are from christ ; and when the same intrinsecal power of constitution according to god , remains unaltered , the operations remain the same . ans. . a church or churches added , do not hinder or abridge , nor bring any privative power ; but the added churches bring a perfecting , helping and cumulative power to perfect objectively in complete operations the former church in the island , in things of common concernment , in which hoth that wilderness-church , and the added churches must be either edified or scandalized . . when the same intrinsecal power remains unaltered , the operations may be altered to the better , and perfected . mr. h. deviseth much logick of his own : when the visive faculty of a man brought out of a dungeon who could not see the day-light , seeth now , should the operations remain the same , when he is brought forth ; ergo , as he saw not before , so he sees not now . mr. h. if it be said the church in an island should submit to a combination of churches , as well as combine as members of a congregation : ans. . this is to beg the question . . suppose they will not ( submit ) then th● other churches cannot cōmand that , no more than a particular congregation can cōmand me to be a member . . they ought not so to combine , as to prejudice the operations of that power they have received of christ , and there is no warrant of christ to hinder the operations of a pastor or ruling elder , more in one act of his office than another . ans. the contrary is a begging of the question . for . the church in an island should submit to the counsel and advice of new added churches , as to the lords word , by mr. h. his grant , ergo , a new addition of churches , as an addition , doth help , and not hinder the power . . the addition of a new power of jurisdiction to the power that was in the wilderness-church , and that in matters of common edification , as in dogmatick points , by grant of adversaries , is no prejudging , ●xcept they over-vote , in a corrupt way , the wilderness-church . and we say , christ never gave any power of erring , or male-administration . . the adding of members to a wilderness-church consisting of , shall have the same inconvenience : for the wilderness-church is to submit to these added members , if added according to god ( as we suppose ) as to as lawful a church-judicature as the wilderness-church was before the addition . but what if they will not submit ? let mr. h. see to that . i should think , by mr. h. his grounds , they ought to submit , for they are added according to the rule of christ ; and by mr. h. his grounds they ought not to submit , ( which is a contradiction . ) for . the power of the wilderness-church , the authority within themselves , offices , officers , were before complete , were all from christ. ergo , the operations should be the same , and they should vote and conclude as they did before , without the addition of members . . those added are separable adjuncts to the constitution and nature , and so to the operations of the wilderness-church . for by mr. h. the wilderness-church being of members , was complete in essence and operations , before the addition of members . . the members over-vote and nullifie the righteous preceeding of the poor holy wilderness-church of . ergo , here the power of a single congregation in the island and the wilderness must be over-turned by these three arguments of mr. h. let his defenders see to it . . a congregation may command me a visible professor so and so , dwelling near the fountain , to confess christ before men , and so to be a member . obj. they cannot excommunicat● a r●fus●r to be a member , for a non-member cannot be c●st out . ans. it s all along a false principle , that a man is no member until ● a court congregational judicially judge of his regeneration . . until he actually consent , and give up his name as a married party : . and that to one onely congregation ; all are rotten and headless principles . what way pastors may be hindred in exercising pastoral acts , or acts of ruling , is clear : he may not publickly preach in a set time of his own appointing , without the churches consent , by whom he is to be regulated , which is no hindring of the exercise of his power , as mr. h. imagines , but a regulating thereof . mr. h. the addition of any thing besides an office , addes no power of right or jurisdiction . ans. true , but it extends the right of the wilderness-church to so many members added , to infants to be baptized when born , to ten churches about , when the lord shall adde them , not to rule over them , but to rule joyntly over the whole combination with them , for promoting the gospel in all . mr. h. the ground of the combination is of no force , to wit , the preventing or curing the taint and pollu●ion that a scandal will bring , by the nearness of combination . therefore the combination is of no force , the scandal falls out in another classis . . in the outside of the combination , nearer the congregation of another classis than their own . . it goes far to another province and nation . the righteous proceeding according to the rule of christ , is a cure appointed to remove it , whereever it falls out , farre or near . ans. by combination , we do not mean onely a combination of a presbytery , but also of a province , nation ; yea , of all the sound christian churches on earth , as the synod of dort , . condemned the unsound doctrine of the arminians , by writing to all those either within or without the church , and nearness of habitation is not the adequate ground ( though a ground it is , cor. . . it is reported there is among you fornication , &c. ) of the danger of pollution . . the reason , because the scandal may fall out without the combination of the classis , is no reason why the combination is of no force , for the combination is upon other grounds also , to wit , the establishing in the faith , the increase of the churches , acts . , . the gathering of the saints , and perfecting of the body , eph. . . edifying the body , beside the preventing and curing of scandals . . it s to beg the question , to say , that the proceeding of the independent congregation of antioch ( say it were so ) is a cure for the scandalous doctrine of salvation by circumcision , preached at ierusalem , acts . . troubling the churches of syria and cilicia , acts . , . yea , this is for mr. h. to say , the holy ghost used not a sufficient cure . as for that , to say scandals should not be prevented and cured by the combination , because they may fall out without the combination ; his meaning is , without the combination classical , or congregation , it makes christs remedy nonsufficient , that either there can be no provincial , no national scandals , contrary to experience , or then christ hath provided no church-remedy to remove them , but onely the power of a single congregation , which hath no power at all , but over themselves . hence this rotten principle , that church feeding is due to none under the new testament , but to persons hampered into the pinfold and judaical prison of one single congregation , against which . it licenseth the most godly saints on earth , residing at corinth , if they be no church-members of that church , . to deny christ and church-ordinances before men , when christs sends out his servants , as mat. , . luke . , . for they may say , the lord calls none to church-ordinances at corinth , but members of that church , and such are we not . . it licenseth them to despise church-prophecying , church-praying , church-praising . . to disobey a gospel-command , though they have visibly to the conscience of all tried themselves . do this in remembrance of me : whereas christ limits his invitation to all who can discern his body . mr. h. must say its adultery for the members of the church of philippi , to remember the lords death in the church of corinth . . that doctrine is not of god , which debars the birds , sheep , and children of god sojourning in what fields or land soever ( as it were ) from feeding as his eagles upon the carrion , in every lawful church-way ; or from watching at the gates , and waiting at the posts of the doors of wisdom , except in that onely congregation to which they are sworn by marriage oath , or from seeding at any table of the lord , or dwelling all the dayes of their life in the new testament-sanctuary , to behold the beauty of the lord , prov. . . . psal. . . & . except in one single congregation : but such is the doctrine of an independent congregation , the onely visible church of the new testament , as they say . . that doctrine is not of god , which confines church-comforts , church-praying , &c. to one single congregation , and puts us in a worse , if not in as hard a condition as the jews , whose publick temple-service was tied to the temple ; whereas in the new testament , tim. . . ( as in the old also in some sense ) we may pray in every place , lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting . but we may not pray , praise , and heat church-wayes in any place by this way , but in our own congregation , although the lord promise to create on zions assemblits a cloud and a smoke by day , and the shining of a fleming fire by night , isa. . . and that upon all the lords mount. . the sojourner is left to the eunuchs complaint , i am a dry tree ; there is glory in this assembly , but i have neither part nor portion in it : nor will it establish the heart to say , i see the beauty of the lord in my own congregation , for these under the new testament can finde no solace and comfort from that psal. . remember me , o lord , with the favour that thou bearest to thy people . nor can it be the comfort of an institution , which is something more to a believing sojourner , and david banished to want , then we conceive● when davids spirit is overwhelmed , when he wants the joy , presence and com●ort of instituted holy dayes , psal. . . and of tabernacle-consolation with the covenanted people of god , which made the sparrows more happy than he was , psal. . , , , . and yet he had soul-refreshments in lively desires , psal. . , . for the godly sojourner is not of that covenanted visible body with the church to which he is a stranger ; for by this way , he is an alien , and deprived of their sanctuary joy and glory of that cong●egregation , both in church-hearing , believing , and joy of the seals . . by this way , christ must promise his ministerial presence , and his spirit , not always , as mat. . . eph. . , . ioh. . . acts . . and in every congregation where they open the mouth , but onely in one fixed congregation . with what faith can they preach elsewhere ? or people hear the pastors elsewhere ? chap. viii . arguments against a presbyterial church taken from the name and nature of the church , matth. . are discussed . mr. h. a church in the gospel is never used for the elders onely . ans. it is never used in the n. t. for men onely who govern , secluding women and children , as mr. h. takes it ; nor for the people secluding the elders as a governing society ; but of the signification hereafter . but it cannot be a binding and authoritative loosing church . mr. h. there cannot be a definition given that will agree to a congregational and presbyterial church . ans. ergo , there is no presbyterial church , it follows not . . as we take a congregational church for the eldership ruling , it is false . one and the same nature of a ruling church agreeth to the congregational , presbyterial , provincial eldership : and so they differ per magis & minus , as is said . mr. h. if the congregations be species specialissimae of a true church , then there can be no lower species resulting or arising from them , as this doth . ans. no logick can say , the church of boston so existing hath other species of the church of boston under it . the hand of socrates cannot be called species specialissima ; nor is the hand , to speak logically , a species ; it is a part , and an uncomplete part of the body . if mr. h. mean , as it seems he doth , that we make presbyterian , provincial churches , lower species and kindes of congregational churches , the pious man refutes presbyterian government , which he understands not . for species specialissima praedicatur de inferioribus , according to aristotle his , ramus , and all logick . and o what monsters feed we if this be true properly ( a presbyterial church is a congregational church ) or ( a congregation is a presbyterial church ) for the congregation is an integral part of the presbyterian church , the presbyterian likewise an integral part of the provincial : but neither of them is species to other , except we say , euphrates is the element of water , the element of water is euphrates . m. h. if every congregation hath all the integral parts of a church , then it is an intire and complete church . ans. therefore it is an intire politick church in its association with other churches , it follows not . but what then ? london is an intire city having all the integral parts of a society , major , sheriffs , aldermen , rulers and ruled , ergo , london is no part of england , nor ruled by the parliament of england . vvhat logick is this ? but if the meaning be , that the congregation associated in the midst of ten congregations , is so a city different in species and in nature from all other congregations , and so married to its own pastors , as the husband and wife are , so that to exercise church-acts , official acts without themselves , is adultery and unlawful ; and so as this church is no integral part of the body catholick , it s against scripture and sound reason , and a begging of the question . mr. h. every integrum is made up of his members , therefore in nature they are before , therefore churches before classis ; therefore what each have they receive from them ; therefore they have no office , but from them ; therefore both ordination and jurisdiction come from them . ans. i desider at a syllogism . every whole incorporation is made up of its members that are before the whole , and hath power , offices , ordination and jurisdiction from these members . it is denied by us , and nakedly asserted by mr. h. for . the churches are before the apostles , ergo , the apostles had their immediate calling and power of jurisdiction from the churches . it is against scripture : as women and children are by nature before officers ; ergo , officers have their ordination and jurisdiction from women and children . churches are before counselling and advising , yea as mr. cotton saith well before , pastorally and authoritatively determining synods , ergo , synods have all their synodical power to counsel and pastorally teach from the churches , they came from , it follows not , not will our brethren yeild the consequence . mr. h. if a congregation grow too big , and therefore be forced to swarm out ; or in ease they transplant themselves from one place to another , so that part be forced to go before others , to make preparation for those that follow , we then send an offic●r with the smaller party , and the greater number remain with the rest : and yet are all but one church in our account , and under one presbytery of chosen elders of the congregation . ans. . why do not our brethren shew a practice of this in the church of ierusalem , consisting of so many act. . & . & . thousands , if more then five thousands all in one congregation ? was there not need that four or six congregations should swarm out of six thousands , and six officers be sent with them ? in which case , suppose they go fourty miles to a new colony , and five congregations meet in five sundry places for word and sacraments , here must be five churches , ●s our brethren take the word church , cor. . . act. . & . . & . . mat. . . & . . sure , though they had no officers , they are a homogeneous true visible church , as mr. h teacheth , page . c. . page . and so here , or six churches ( if we contend not about names ) under one presbyterial government , which is the yeelding of the cause , and yet at forty miles distance , and yet by no will or appointment can they meet in one place , o but they are all one church in our account ! one congregation in christs account . shew us scripture for this acception of the word church in old or new testament ; that they are one single congregation , otherwise mr. h. his account is no account : if they be one church , because they have one and the same power , jurisdiction ; officers they had before . so we say , and the same power and jurisdiction in nature and essence we grant ; but so all the congregations on earth have one and the same power and jurisdiction , covenant , seals , saith , christ , hope of glory ; so we agree . why dispute we , if the meaning be , that all these six swarmes ( for a thousand will be a number too great for one congregation , if not sufficient ) are but one individual congregation , though now separated by forty miles , and meeting in six sundry places . . give us scripture for that church . . give us any greek author sacred or prophane , that so speakes , for we stand not to mr. h. his account in this . . where there are and must be six sundry meetings , coitiones six numero distinctae . . six companies hearing at the same time six several sermons . . partaking of six tables of the lord numerically distinct , here sure must be fix congregations , as our brethren define us a church , a company of believers meeting in one place , &c. and if so , here is a prelacy . . a number of non-residents ; for all are elders ruling ; but it is physically impossible , that all can be elders teaching . so mr. h. then it is no● essential to a church that they meet all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in one place , as the brethren often tell us . m. h. but when the congregations are fixed , and they established in peace , and setled with support about them , not more then may comely and comfortably meet together , to partake of all ordinances , should be one church . ans. if the six swarms , which issue out of the numerous church of ierusalem , disturb the peace , and make war and division in the church , it is strange . the eldership or presbytery over these six swarms , so separated by many miles in divers colonies , may either meet and exercise discipline , and dispence censures to these six swarms not yet setled , and provided with officers , or they may not meet . to say they may not meet for that end , is to deny that they are under one presbytery of the same chosen elders , contrary to what mr. h. said . if they may meet to dispence censures , here shal be ruling elders , & no physical possibility of teaching the swarms so separated as fourty miles , they may haply hear of written decrees , as act. . . but cannot be edified by preaching . . so this church congregational which cannot comely and comfortably meet to partake of all the ordinances , is no ordinance of christ , and so no congregational church . but such are these swarms that are fourty miles distant . . this church is either visible , or not ; neither can be said by mr. h. his principles , as elsewhere is proved . mr. h. hence an answer may be easily accommodated to the examples which mr. r. brings for a presbyterian church . . that of the apostles will no wise suit his end for to make up a presbyterial church ; there must be many congregations , many elders appropriated to these congregations , which have power over their own only , and not over others ; and these must combine , and upon the combination , the elders must assemble and d●spence their censures , and set down their decisions . but there were no elders at jerusalem appropriate to their several charges and churches , which had power only over them ; and such elders the apostles could not be , because though they had all power in them , yet they had no power limited for that should contradict their apostolick commission . ans. i smile to read this worthy man yeild in terminis a presbyterial church ; and yet be saith , the examples serve not mr. r. his end . why ? saith he , . to make up a presbyterial church , there must be many congregations ; good : so say we . . there must be many elders appropriated to these congregations , which have power over their own only ( saith he ) and not over others ; that we deny . i should say , any other save this worthy man , ( whom i much loved and ever honoured ) who would write a book against presbyterial government , and yet did not understand the constituent elements of a presbyterial church , deserves to be censured ; for mr. h. yieldeth all the presbyterial church that mr. r. pleads for , or that the famous synod at westminster desire ; where there were eminently learned men , who well understood presbyterial government , and all adversaries thereof . an eminent man mr. ier. burroughs , one of the dissenting brethren , did not oppose , nor enter his dissent against the proposition , concerning a presbyterial church , as mr. h. does ; nor look upon it as a principal of presbyterial government ; only the dissenters did hold , there was but one single congregation at ierusalem , in which they are redacted to miserable absurdities ; and in these two mr. h. contradicts them : let them compose their domestick contradictions . see the answer of the assembly of divines to the seven dissenting brethren , an. . suppose in jerusalem ( saith the synod ) there were ten congregations , and twenty officers , feeding and ruling them in common , not one of them fixed to any one congregation . this kind of presbytery would pass for a lawful government : and none of these incongruities or absurdities are charged on them , by this argument : and it shall not follow that ruling and teaching are not commensurable , as the holy ghost makes them commensurable . . mr. h. cannot , nor any man for him , clear from that text act. ● whether they were fixed or not fixed , they are the elders of the church of ierusalem , that is , as mr. h. saith , contradicting the dissenting brethren , elders of divers congregations , under one presbyterial government , which is all we crave . . fixedness or not fixedness of elders is an accident of the visible governing church to our brethren : who hold that it is the same numerical church homogeneous , which being void of elders , may chuse their officers , and thereafter being fixed and formed , may excommunicate all their elders , if they turn heretical ; so that the people is the church without their officers , and the officers to mr. h. are separable adjuncts , and the coming or going of the separable adjuncts of the church cannot alter the nature of the church . it is most weak , that mr. h. saith , that the apostles could not be fixed pastors to them , for then they should be limited pastors to them , and so not apostles : for there can be no contradiction between apostles and pastors , for their fixed preaching , and fixed administring of the seals . for example , pauls pastoral officiating a year and six months at corinth , act. . . and so many years at sphesus , so many years at rome , differs not in nature and essence from the pastoral preaching and administring of the seals in constantly fixed pastors , chosen to the congregation for all their life : and yet he remained habitu , and actu primo an apostle . yes the adding of an extraordinary seal of a miracle , contradicts not the charter , or the preaching of the gospel , more then samuels judging at gilgal , is opposite to his judging all israel at ramah : extension of preaching to many is a meer accident ; and a members receiving of the supper in his own church is not opposite to his receiving thereof in four other churches . see the answer of the assembly , page , . as also , if the twelve apostles govern , as they do , act. . all the twelve meetings , and yet neither do , nor can preach all of them to every one of the twelve , except all the twelve be in twelve several meetings at once , then ( which is a monstrous impossibility ) . ruling is divided from preaching . . then all the twelve cannot fulfil their ministry . yes , . then episcopal ruling of many churches , and neither being bound , nor able to teach any of them , or all of them , is not sinful . but sure the apostles might govern , send their decrees , and epistles to many churches , the members whereof they never saw in the face . nor could all the many thousands , who had power of judging with the elders , as our brethren say , meet in one place comely and comfortably to act : and therefore christ so must never have appointed such a judicature , to rule all these congregations , who are entitatively one ; so must they say what we say , and more . for all the congregations on earth are entitatively and in nature one , and yet our brethren will be far from saying , that they are all under one government , as they say that these meetings at ierusalem were . m. h. the rest of the examples of antioch , ephesus , rome , though it were granted upon their greater growth , and increase , and so want of elders , they might meet in divers places for the while , these might still be under one presbytery , their officers in a distinct manner attending upon them . and therefore gerson bucerus in his answer sayes here , quis adeo ineptire sustinuerit , &c. who can say ; that because they meet in divers places , they were under divers presbyteries , or elders ? ans. . this is a short way of answering , with a leaving out of the church of samaria , a great city , wherein all both men and women were baptized , the church of corinth , of thessalonica , &c. . and yet there is no lesse cause to say all the saints at rome , antioch , ephesus , samaria could not meete in one place , then that these of ierusalem could not . . if they might meet in divers places , for the while , and yet be under one presbytery ; here is a presbyteriall church of many congregations , for a while . here is a prelaticall and antichristian government , for a while , at least ordained by christ. and mr. h. writes a book with a huge noise of absurdities , with which he burdens his brethren the presbyterians ; yet he will suffer their church to stand , for a while . . who told mr. h that a presbyterial church may stand for a while , during the time of the growth of the the church of ierusalem , antioch , ephesus , but no longer ? for when the swarmed out churches are once setled , the presbyterian church must downe againe , since the scripture speakes nothing of this . who gave mr. h. leave to set up an antichristian tabernacle ( for so is the presbytery to him ) for an houre , and pull it downe again ? . it is a wonder that mr. h. should cite gerson bucer cuttedly , as a witnesse so much for a presbyteriall church , not in the swarming out of churches onely ( of which bucer hath not one word ) but in the setled state of the church : for bucer contradicts mr. h. and all his as foolishly erring , when they say such churches meet in divers places for the word and seales ; ergo , they are independent in their government , and cannot be under one common government . bucer saith , if they lie near together , it is folly to say they are under divers presbyteries , and so say we . mr. h. . it doth not appear out of any text , nor any evincing argument gathered therefrom , that ( setting aside the church of jerusalem ) they should needs meet in several places . ans. then the church of ierusalem met in sundry places , by mr. h. his argument : but this shall offend the dissenting brethren , that maintain against the synod at westminster , that they meet all in one place . . mr. h. should have given a reason , why the church of ierusalem met in sundry places , and not the other churches of antioch , ephesus , but because he saw our arguments run as strong for other churches as for ierusalem . he was pleased to dictate what he could not demonstrate , and so leave the reader in the dark . . before i leave this , let mr. h. or his teach what is meant by this , that there were about three thousand added to the church , act. . . whether by the church be meant the one hundred and twenty , of which ch . . and whether there the one hundred and twenty were there to receive the three thousand as members at that time in a judicial way ? and if they were not there , how the three thousand were not added primarily to the catholike christian church that then was ; and secondarily to this , or to that church ? as we say . for when there were said to be added to the church , they were not added to themselves . mr. h. . let it be considered , whether by church may not be meant many churches . saul made havock of the church . i. e. of the faithful of many churches . ans. it is weak as water , saul persecuteth the church , i. e. members of the independent church : ergo , there is no presbyterial church . ergo , there is not such a thing as a synod , for he persecuted iames , peter , and the elders and brethren , members of the synod , where he might find them ; now the apostles were not fixed member of congregations : and let mr. h. consider whether luke gives not a better interpretat on then he , act. . saul made havock of the church , entring into every house , and haling m●n and women , and committed them to p●ison . so that saul destroyed the scattered members , that were n●t inchurched , and where he found any of this way , act. . . whether members of a congregation , or not , even members of divers meetings under one presbytery , as he grants , he persecuted them . and by this the church at ierusalem , act. . . must be churches congregational at ierusalem . and act. . the lord added to the church such as should be saved ; that is , the lord added to divers independent congregations , such as should be saved ; good : but this church and these common elders meet for acts of government , act. . . and the day following , paul went in with us to j●… , and all the elders ( verse . ) were present . s●re the place shewes they meet for acts of government . yea , act. . . & . . they sent alms to the elders of iudea , to be distributed to the distressed in iudea . as also the elders of iudea were members of the synod , act. ● . and how could there be administrating of the seals without any jurisdiction at all to debar the unworthy ? chap. ix . the arguments of mr. r. for a ministerial church from matth. . are vindicated from the exceptions of mr. hooker . mr. h. if christ allude to the synedry , then must mat. . be expounded of a presbyterial church . mr. h. both proposition and assumption is denied . ans. mr. h. leaps from one book to another . i no where frame an argument from a meer allusion : but so , if christ so allude to an authoritative company , that hath power of binding and loosing , as the jewish sanhedrim in this mat. . then he judgeth the church , mat. . to be a juridical church . . it s a poor argument , he alludes not to the jewish synagogue , because that synagogue had no power of excommunication , as this church mat. . hath , saith he : but can there be no allusion to a iudicature , except the one , to which allusion is made , and that of which the present speech is , have the like power ? then cannot the scripture allude to earthly princes , who place their greatest courtier upon the right hand , because earthly princes have not the like power with the father of jesus christ. this destroys all allusions , which abound in the scripture ; as paul , rom. . . alludes to the sun ; malachi compareth gospel-worship to the burning of incense , chap. . shall it then follow , that the one is of the nature of the other ? that allusions bring little light , is said without ground ; for they being grounded upon metaphors often , which bring light , must bring much light . . that synagogues had no power to excommunicate , seems to bring darkness , and not light . the contrary is iob. . and . though they abused that ordinance . mr. h. it s in vain to send the plaintiff to a general councel , he might be dead before he be relieved , and the councel be gathered . ans. we send no man by a loup to a general councel , but the grieved man may appeal to the nearest judicature ; and mr. h. will have him to loup to a general councel at the first , being accused of a scandal , which declares , that he would elude all the government of christ , between him and that judicature . . we do not maintain any appeals whatsoever , but onely righteous appeals . illud tantum p●ssumus , quod jure possumus . . so may the plaintiff be buried before a synod , by way of consultation , may be had ; the wayes of discipline , a● all christs ordinary wayes in the gospel , may possibly never take effect in those to whom the word is a savour of death unto death , but that doth not nullifie an ordinance of god. mr. h. our saviour , mat. . points at a standing tribunal of such a church as is at hand , whereof both parties were members . ans. it s a perverting of the words of christ , mat. . that no man trespassing , whom i must endevour to gain , can be my brother , but he who is a member of the same congregation of which i am a member . this is to renounce and quit all brotherly communion with all churches on earth , but onely that single congregation of which i am a member ; when not one brother , but twenty or many churches of brethren without the congregation , as false brethren of iudea trespass against antioch by perverse doctrine , act. . there is not a judicature a● hand , hath christ provided to tell no church , and left no remedy to remove the greatest of scandals ? mr. h. how could a church in an island , or the first church at jerusalem , act. . . exercise discipline upon an offender upon this ground ? ans. why not ? since the purpose of christ is , that every church , even the less of one hundred and twenty , acts . and the greater of ten thousands , act. . & . & . should respectively purge themselves ; and when association of many churches about shall be , they should also purge those without the congregation . scandals fall out where many meetings are , and one onely presbytery over them , as mr. h. granteth : to which of the meetings shall : the plaintiffs complain ? the offenders are of divers meetings or churches that are not at hand . mr. h. the sanhedrim is a mixt iudicature , partly of ecclesiastical , partly of civil iudges , deut. . . chron. . ergo , allusion cannot be made thereunto . ans. the consequence is naught . . mr. h. with the prelates , confound the judicatures , but they are clearly distinguished , while one is appointed for the matters of the king another for the matters of the lord , chron. . . so are they distinguished , the priest or the judge , not the priest and the judge , diut . . . men might sinsully confound them ; but sin is no institution of the lord. mr. h. arg. . the church of believers is that which meets for prophecying and for praying : but this , mat. . especially for binding and loosing , and censures . mr. h. the church of believers is assembled mainly for prophecying and praying , yet not onely , but for censures also , the word being ended . ans. that is indeed in question , that men , women and children meet ordinarily every lords-day for to act in all ordinances ; and after sermon to leed witness , binde and loose , and that under the notion of believers , for neither here , nor in scripture , is there warrant for this . mr. h. arg. . the church mat. . is such a superiour and judicial seat , as is to be obeyed in the lord , under the pain of excommunication : but a multitude of believers are not such a seat . so mr. r. mr h. the major is the question , and the conclusion is to be proved , whether a particular congregation be the highest tribunal , or the classical church : and mr. r. takes one part of the conclusion to pr●ve the other : if the congregation be not highest , then the classical must be . the minor should have been proved , not nakedly propounded . ans. i propound a syllogism , and for answer to the minor , mr. h. transforms my argument , which i dreamed not of , and sayes , i take one part of the conclusion to prove the other , if the congregation be not highest , then the classis is . but , sir , that is not one part of the conclusion to prove another ; but since you bring it , it s a lawful syllogism , either the congregation or the classis is the highest tribunal : but not the congregation . yet this is mr. h. arg. not mine . the church mat. . is such a superiour seat , as is to be obeyed , as being over us in the lord , &c. but no scripture , no divine in the world saith , that the multitude of believers ( i use not there the term congregational church at all ) is such a superiour seat , that is over the guides , and whom the guides do obey in the lord , or disobey under the pain of excommunication . this minor of mine is not nakedly propounded . the scripture saith , the officers are over the multitude of believers in the lord , thess. . , . tim. . . heb. . . but the contrary is never said ; they do not awake that say , this is to take one part of a conclusion to prove the other ; for its a conclusion proved by a medium , that is no part , neither subject nor attribute of the conclusion . mr. h. arg. . of mr. r. whatever the church may excommunicate , every member thereof convened with the church may inflict all inferiour censures . but all the members cannot inflict lesser punishment ; for neither women , nor aged children , nor the unofficed brethren , can rebuks , exhort , or , by the word , openly convince the officers . ans. the consequence is feeble , as appears from the nature of delegated power , which is committed by christ to persons capable thereof , which women for their sex , children for the want of the exercise of understanding , cannot do . people have power to choose officers , therefore women have power to put in their voices . the body of a corporation may put out a major upon desert ; therefore women and children may do it . no , the wise god hath included the votes of women in the male . ans. nay , but mr. h. shall not so elude the argument . whatsoever the judging , binding and loosing church of believers may do , that every member of the joynt community may do , in collegio , if the keyes be given to them ( as mr h. and mr. cotton say ) as actual believers , giving peters confession , mat. . and therefore mr. h. too suddenly sayes , the consiquence ( he would have said the major , for its a lawful syllogism ) is feeble ; for women , children , sons come to ag● servants , which he left out , are formal and essential parts of the believing church , to whom the keyes are given as to the first subject . if the keyes be not given to them as confessing and professing believers , because not to women , sons , servants , then not to all confessing and professing believers , as such ; then not to all blessed , as taught by a teacher above flesh and blood , as peter was , mat. . this shall cross the principles of our brethren ( & the truth and scripture cannot but cross them ) nor can it be denied , but women , sons come to age , servāts , are no less members of that church , than the multitude of male-believers , for they confess christ , as peter , are blessed , and built on the rock , as well as peter , and are no less conceived in charity , to have some spi●…l good in them , as mr. h. dictates , cap. . par . , , . and these must be visible saints to whom mr. h. his definition of visible saints agrees ; and therefore our brethren must either quit the principles they follow , or then a multitude of believers of visible saints must be larger than the actual binding and loosing church , mat. . and against their will this , tell the church , must be understood of , tell some believers onely , ( if they will ) the officers ; but , tell not women , nor sons , nor servants , for they are no part of the binding and loosing church ; and , if he hear not the church ; that is , as the hebraism there , if he obey not the church , if he obey not some believers men , and heads of families , not women , servants , ●ons , let him be to thee as a publican , &c. . so woman are either not capable of believing and visible saintship , which none can say ; or they are not capable of a power of binding and loosing : and so a power capable of binding and loosing is not given to the multitude of believers , as the church , mat. . . nor are women , sons , servants , debarred from voicing in election , because it is a church-power , for it is no power of jurisdiction . for . their tacit voices and consents are not excluded , because they must try the spirits , & not upon trust , & fide implicitâ believe every teacher more than men , or believe as the church believes , more than their husbands , nor must they take doctrines as truth : upon their husbands word ; not are women so excluded from speaking in the church , as they may upon no occasion confess their faith . . profess vocally repentance . . depose as witnesses . . accuse the guilty before the binding church . . nor may a corporation cast out a major by an authoritative power , such as binding and loosing is , mat. . . we seek a warrant why the votes of women in choosing their pastors , must more be included in the votes of the male , than their being essential parts of the redeemed church is included in the males , or their confessing publickly , that jesus is the christ , as many women martyrs , and sons and servants have gloriously done ; and yet their confession of christ to the death must be personal , and not included in the confession of husband or parents , as mat. . . mr. h. arg. . of mr. r. those to whom the essence and definition of a ministerial church , having power to excommunicate , doth belong ; those and those onely are understood under the name of the church , mat. . but the essence and definition of a ministerial church , having power to excommunicate , doth not necessarily belong to a great company of believers assembled church-wise . ans. both propositions may be denied . neither a church without officers , nor as having them , is here onely understood ; but the second sense is here firstly attended . for both people and elders have their power , parts and places in a right order and manner ; when it s said , a ministerial church is here understood , ministerial notes either ministers without the body exclusively , and that is false , or ministers with the body inclusively . now a ministerial church in the fairest sense aims at both . in the first sense , the proposition is false ; in the second it doth not conclude to whom the essence and definition of a ministerial , i. e. of a church of ministers , without the body , having power to excommunicate , doth necessarily belong : these and these onely are here understood . this mr. r. l. . p. . refu●eth . ans. well then mr. h. denies the conclusion ; then both a ministerial church , and a church of redeemed , meeting to partake of ordinances , have their part here : ergo , women have their part here . . if a church in both s●nses be here understood when all the officers turn grievous wolves , socinians , papists , familists , such as say they are apostles , and do li● ; then . must the people that are stumbled complain to themselves . this is not just , to make the complaining party ( saith m. h. ) judge . what if they unjustly complain , and say their officers are presbyterial and prelatical , and are legal preachers , and preach neither christ nor free-grace , then hath christ ordained them whose lips preserve not knowledge , to be the onely judging and first church , which hath power to excommunicate , to be the first and onely judges-of sound doctrine , and heresie in officers . and suppose the church of people and officers be here firstly understood ; we cannot complain of the familist people ( of which there were too many in n●e . ) to the elders , for the same reason . . nor is it true , that people and elders ( the people must in judging be first , by mr. h. ) have their power , parts and place in this work , for all elders and people have equally a decisive voice , except women , and children , and se●vants ; and by what reason they want votes , a reason 〈◊〉 yet is not heard of . . there is no reason that binding and loosing may be transacted by onely a power of judgement in people , for then a power of office is accidental to binding and loosing , how then can a society with both power of judgement and of office be understood here firstly ? as mr. h. saith . therefore i ask a reason , why officers , who are meer adjuncts , such a● come in at the by , and as latter in nature , power , and operation to the visible church , should have any hand in binding and loosing , since all officers are made and unmade , ordained and cast out by the male-church , by this way ? . nor can the officers binde and loose as officers , nor hath christ given this power to the officers as officers , by this way of our brethren . for they say , . that the keyes were given to peter , mat. . as to a believer , not as to an officer . . officers to them are but adjuncts of the visible church , and the keyes are given to the visible church before they have officers , and the people may make and excommunicate them . . here is strange work ! the keyes were not given to peter as an officer , but as a believer , and yet he useth the keyes as an officer . . the church is not made ministerial by us , without the body exclusively wholly ( for christs government is voluntary ) nor ought any new thing to be concluded in our assemblies , while the people hear of it : for if the romans used rogare & suadere legem , and obtain the consent of the people thereunto , far more are they not to be acknowledged as church-laws , that are to be obtruded upon the godly against their will and knowledge ; and much more if they be against the word of god , and former godly acts with consent agreed unto by the church ; that is , whether the people consent or not , but yet without the body , whether they exercise acts of jurisdiction or not , for no act of jurisdiction is due to them ; and to exclude the consent of women , no less interessed in practise of conscience than men , is to be lords of their faith . mr. h. the sixth argument refers to former proofs , &c. ans. and mr. r. refers to former replies . mr. h. it s evidently false , that there can be no complaint to a multitude ; for complaints may be made to a parliament . ans. how can complaints be made to ten thousand of the church of ierusalem , for that church , as mr. h. grants , pag. , . met in sundry places , not in one : no parliament or judicature consisteth of such a number . we cannot complain to the many churches of galatia of their wicked tenet of justification by works , for they are scattered in divers societies , and its unlawful ( say our brethren ) to meet in their officers to exercise jurisdiction . mr. h. arg. . the house of cloe complained to paul. . paul gives rules about the elders receiving of complaints . ans. that house complained to paul , because his apostolick authority might have been helpful , but they might have complained to any of the church of corinth . paul advises titus to hear complaints , to prepare them for the church . . if the people must consent tacitly to the censures , before they be dispensed they must hear the complaints . ans. paul gives rules and directions to timothy , tim. . . v. . and titus , cap. . as to pastors , not as to believers , concerning the manner of receiving complaints , nor is there in scripture , precept , promise or practise of believers to receive complaints , we are surer than our brethren ; and its safer to expound thi , tell the church , that is , tell timothy and the elders ; then , tell the church , that is , tell any member of the church at co●inth , i. e. tell any woman , or servant , for they are as essentially members as timothy or any of the elders : . and must joyn their consent to censures , because members must hear the scandals , because they must tacitly consent before censures be dispensed , it follows not that members must be told ; for the tacit consent of women is requisite , for they may be scandalized or edified by the good or evil dispensing of censures as well as men . . they may not converse with excommunicate persons more than men . . their consciences must not be lorded over more than the consciences of men , in the dispensing of censures . . they must have a vote tacit or formal in choosing of a pastor , and must not take him blindly ; and complaints to women , sons , servants , yea , and the precepts of withdrawing , rom. . . cor. . , . th●ss . . tim. . . tit. . . ioh. . . oblige the consciences of women , sons and servants , then women may receive witness against elders ; as well as timothy , tim. . . but with such qualifications and limitations . for mr h. maintains this connexion , complaints may be made unto the church ( tell the church , mat. . ) to all , without whose tacit consent there can be no proceeding to excommunication . but without womens consent there is no excommunication , no admission , no election , responde it a , vol non . mr. h. the people may censure heretical elders in an island . ans. so they may in justa tutela aeterna salutis , but not by the power of the keyes . . and so may the elders , remaining godly and sound , remove with the tabernable and candlestick from a people in an island , if they dance to the golden calf , and be incorrigible : yea , if the elders and men in an island turn familists , and the women , sons , servants remain sound , let mr. h. shew what the sounder part of the church may do . and though women be forbidden authoritatively to teach in the church , tim. . . cor. . and publickly , yet they may teach the younger women , t it . , . give a seasonable rebuke and counsel to men , sam. . , . sam . , , , . and a woman a sister is to labour to gain a sister , by matth. . and that in a church-way ; and women , as other church-members , are to teach , exhort , warn , according to their place , as well as men , col. . . rom. . . thess. . . heb. . & . . let m. h. teach us how their faith is included in the men in these duties , in consenting that a savoury man , not an heretick , be their pastor . mr. h. arg. . that church is here understood to whom the keyes are given , mat. . but they are given onely to a classical church . ans. the minor is barely affirmed . ans. my argument is divided : the minor is not barely affirmed . the keyes are given to peter , as representing elders and apostles , to whom christ saith , iohn . whose sins ye forgive , they are forgiven ; to whom he said , as my father sent me , so i send you : but this official sending is most undue to the people ; and its equivalent to that mat. . go , teach and baptize . but christ said not to unofficed brethren , receive the holy ghost ; whose sins ye forgive , &c. go , teach and baptize . so cyprian . mr. h. arg. . of mr. r. the onely apparent argument against this interpretation is weak , and therefore this sense hath ne strength . ans. both parts fail : . there may be other reasons given . . it doth not follow , that the different sense is clear , because many better reasons haply may be rendred , than were alledged . mr. ball according to his sagacity and sharpness of dispute , seeketh far and wide where to finde , where the word church noteth onely the elders , but all cometh to this , one may suppose such a sense . ans. . mr. h. denies the antecedent and the consequence , and proves both to be false with the same argument , because many better reasons may haply be given ; which is bad logick : for other reasons may be given ( and separatists , morellius , anabaptists , and prelatical men have besieged , but never taken in this text ) but if this be the onely seeming and apparent reason given for popular jurisdiction , yea or that can be given , the consequence is not proved by mr. h. his adverb haply , which implies no as well as i. and when mr. r. saith , the reasons against our sense are sophisms , it s not an answer to say , i. but stronger arguments haply may be rendred by others , such as never were alledged before . what if one should say stronger reasons and clearer scriptures yet than ever have been alledged , may haply be rendred for unwritten traditions , image worship , praying to the dead ? papists should be little stronger than they are . . the argument is but this : if the word church in all the scriptures so often mentioned , be never taken for the elders onely , it a strong suspicion it is not so taken in this place , matth. . but the word church — is such . . the major is denied . all the judiciou● interpreters finde a word onely in this sense in this place , and that it cannot bear sense according to the analogie of faith , but in this sense onely , as scope , matter and circumstances of the place inforce ; and yet the same word must be otherwise taken in many other places : and when all is done , the conclusion of the apparent reason amounts but to a suspicion ; and mr. h. of his own addes the qualification of strong suspicion , and mr. r hath leave upon better grounds to adde , that his own suspicion is weak . mr. h. wrongs that eminently learned and godly man , mr. ball , who proves the elders here must be meant , and no other church , and mr. h. touches not with one finger his reasons . . i retort the argument . if the word church of the redeemed meet to partake of all ordinances , word , seals , censures , &c. often mentioned in scripture , be never taken for brethren onely , excluding believing women , sons come to age of or years , which are the far larger number of the redeemed , confederate , visible church , called , sanctified , as cor. . . cor. . . eph. . . col. . . thess. . . thess . , &c. then can it not be so taken , mat. . and the assumption must be as strong , that the word church in this sense is destitute of the least loving look of the allowance of any text , that might be a second in the field ; as is the rhetorication , in place of disputation of mr. h. therefore we desire a parallel place for the acception o● the word church or onely male-church of redeemed meeting for all ordinances . mr. h. answers not , when he tells us , that women for their sex , and children for want of the exercise of understanding , are excluded from governing . ans. that is another question , whether they be excluded from governing from this , what is the notation of the word church , mat. . and whether women , children come to age , and servants , be not essential parts , and the far larger part of the church of believors , fed , redeemed , of the church which chr●st hath instituted in the gospel — that is , ( saith the discipline of n. e. ) of a combination of faithful godly persons , meeting for that end , to partake of all the ordinances of god in one place-built on the rock , mat. . if such a signification of the word church be not in all the scripture , is not this to have in the bag a stone & a stone , when we say , tell the church — and if he hear not the church , mat. . is the church-meeting in one place for hearing the word , receiving the seals , professing the faith of peter built upon the rock , which essentially includes women , aged children , servants , but yet tell the church , is not tell the women , aged children and servants , for they are excluded from governing ( say they ) true , but they are not excluded from being members of the church , mat. . which in its proper signification ( as our brethren say ) signifieth only this redeemed visible church built on the rock meeting in one place , &c. . the word church , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , must in scripture be restricted to the subject matter and the end , wherefore the convention is instituted ; and seldom is it taken , but it excludes some such , as act. . it cannot signifie the church of christ , but a civil tumultuary meeting . the town clerk dismissed the church . . eph. . . christ loved his church , and gave himself for her . the church there is such a catholick body visible , or invisible , as he shall present without spot or wrinkle , and excludeth rotten members professors , as magus , who are no more but visible members , but includeth all real saints , men , women , infants , jews , gentiles , &c. . it notes these who convene in the same place to be fed with word , seals , censures , act. . . a whole year they assemble with the church , cor. . he that prophecieth , edifieth the church . it must exclude infants , who though members of the visible church , yet cannot be edified by prophecying : but cannot but include women , more aged children and servants : and say there were but one place in all the world , where the church came together for the hearing of the word , receiving of the lords supper , that one place were sufficient to teach what the word church notes in that place . and so here , mat. . is the like case . . tell the church must be , tell the church that hath power to bind and loose on earth , and which if the offender hear not , he must be declared a heathen ; but this is neither women , children , nor servants , by our brethren . . the binding and loosing here is to be expounded of the specifick acts of office , never given to any by other scriptures , but only to officers , thes. . , . luke . . heb. . . tim. . . tim. . , . act , . . rom. . , . mat. . . pet. . , . tit. . . ioh . . ephes. . , . is. . . ier. . . . tell the church , if he hear not the church : shall be by us gladly expounded of both rulers and professors in their own kind . . let him be to thee as a heathen , that is , to the whole church , women and servants , by withdrawing from his company . pu●ge out , all ye who have been puffed up and mourned not , and such were women , and so men also to whom he writeth . cor. . . and women were a part of the lump in danger to be infected ; and upon that hazard were not to eat & drink with an excommunicated man , cor. . , . and were not to be mixed , but to eschew scandalous persons , this. . rom. . . nor receive such a man unto their house , nor bid him god speed , ioh . . tit. . . which the women were to do one way , and the elders another way . so cor. . . ye ought rather to forgive him , and comfort him . sure women , children of age , and servants , to whom he writes , were to forgive , in their way , for to them he determined to come , cor. . . they were a part of his rejoycing . v. . they were anointed , established , sealed by the spirit , v. , . as well as the men and elders . and say the word of confirming their love , were an authoritative word , as it is ; yet it is so , as applied to the elders , not as applied to women . as the same word of worshipping relating to iehovah is a religious adoring , relating to david is civil reverence , chr. ● . . the people bowed their heads , & worshipped the lord and the king , sam. . all the people greatly feared the lord and samuel . though they were two really distinct actions . and this cannot be denied by mr. h. who gives to the elders an official power of jurisdiction , to the brethren a judicial power of judgment ; ergo , they excommunicate not one and the same way . . yes , and paul writes to timothy , not as to a christian simply , but as to a pastor representing the company of elders ( as christ speaks to peter , mat. . ) as to a pastor to take heed to doctrine and reading , tim. . , . what widows , tim . . what watchmen , tim. . , . tim. . . tim. . , . what deacons , tim. . , . there should be in the church . how he should rebuke , preach . now this way the people should be warned , how to preach , how to rebuke , not to lay on hands suddenly , to save themselves and others by preaching , if they have a joint power of ruling with officers . it is true he writes to timothy as to a christian , to flee the lusts of you h● , but in order to the ministry , that he may be an example to the flock , tim. . otherwise women , children come to age , servants , are to flee lusts , and to follow righteousness , faith , love , peace , &c. yet they are to exercise no jurisdiction . . tell the church , cannot bear this , as mr. h. would say , tell first the church of officers and people , when the officers are too ordinarily grievous wolves , seducers , blind guides , idol-shepherds , act. . . mat. . . pet. . , . iohn . . rev. . . t it . . ier. . , . ier. . , . isa. . , . mich. . , . zach . , , . then must the keys and power of binding and loosing be firstly in the people , not in the officers who are separable adjuncts ( as our brethren say ) the garments of the church , not parts of the church , as garments are not parts of a man. lastly , mr. h. cannot build his new house , but by raising the foundation stones of all our worthy protestant divines , and fathers , who prove that the pope should hear the general council from matth. . so chrysost. hom . . in ioan. orig. hom . . in ezek. august ssrm. . de ver . domini . cyprian . iewel apolo . c. . div . . page . tho. mort. appel . protest . l. . c. . sect . . page . . aene. sylv. in gest. conc. basil. fol. . . rom. pont. non audist eccles. christum non audiet . and riv. catho . ortho. to . tract . . q. . papists that are sounder , as gerson , almain , occum , cusanus , contaren●●s , ca●etanus , ferus , toletus , menochius , maldonatus , &c. say the pope is a brother , and ought to hear the church . mr. h. the angel of the church of ephesus stands for the whole church . saith mr. r. ans. see how strangely shall that sound , to the angel of the church of ephesus , i. e. to the church of the church of ephesus . ans. this is a poor consequence , it is known there are often two tropes in one word . the word angel being put for many angels , as didoclavius and other learned authors from psal. . prove . and then these many overseers are put for the church , and rebuked in the people , and the people in them . when an embassador speaks to the parliament , he speaks to england , and when he speaks to the speaker , he speaks to the parliament . will it follow , the embassador speaks to england of england ? a headless conceit , and such quirks make a cause to be suspected ; so when one offended tells the church , he but tells the brethren of the church ; and this is the church of the church . and if women , sons , servants be excluded , as mr. h. excludes them , then he tells the church of the church . mr. parker , though not far from our brethrens way , hath said the very same ; for which mr. h. refuteth mr. r. and if mr. parker shews my mind in that , when mr. h. refutes therein m. parker , i yield ; but he contradicts mr. parker . mr. h. it is said acts . . paul saluted the church at jerusalem , it cannot be thought in reason , that the elders only were saluted ; because the scope of paul was to confirm the hearts of the disciples , and therefore had an eye to the weakest , and those that wanted his sweet refreshing , who heard of his arrival , and assembled to give comfortable entertainment to him , and to be comforted by him . ans. the argument must then be thus , if any : paul saluted and kissed ( for so is the original word ) as many as he confirmed and encouraged in the way of grace at ierusalem . but he confirmed in that way , all and every one , man , woman , servants , rich , poor ; ergo , he kissed them all , and saluted them all . let mr. h. see to the conclusion , it is all his own . . the argument is not brought to prove that the word church there noteth precisely only the elders . nor does mr. r. alledge it upon that account precisely ; but that the word church may note some eminent professors , and note a church of all , men , women , children , yea the thousands who meet in sundry places , by the grant of mr. h. came not out to meet paul , and were saluted of him ; for to be saluted , was but a matter of courtesie , though christian , but to be comforted and confirmed in the faith is another thing . mr. h. the word church in the hebrew and greek used by the septuagint , notes the rulers of the church , not always the body ; and it is granted without any hurt to our cause . ans. since the signification of words , and of the word church , as moses and the prophets use them , is frequently followed in the new testament by the evangelists and apostles ; it is clear , our saviour , mat. . departed not from the received signification of the words in the old testament used by the septuagint . and so the word , tell the church , hath a better warrant to be expounded . tell the rulers , then , tell all the faithful men , women , children , and servants ; therefore the suspicion is so strong , as mr. h. said , that there is no parallel text for this signification of a male-church excluding women and officers , who may excommunicate all officers ; and whereas he so much contends for the signification of the word church , let him answer what is meant there , cor. . . if any man seem to be contentious , we have no such custom , neither the churches of christ. if the meaning be , that the congregations meeting in the same place , contend not among themselves ; what if they so should do ? who should right them , by our brethrens way ? and if that be the church that meets in one place onely , when shall the church catholick which christ loved , and gave himself for , meet ? not until the day of judgement ? and did the brethren testifie of the charity of gaius , ioh. before the church , was that in the convened together congregation ? or was it not before the men of the church ? and cor. . when ye 〈◊〉 together to the church , was not this to the meeting of men and women , except women be debarred from the lords supper ? and when saul made havock of the church , he must persecute only the binding and loosing church ; but the scripture saith , he persecuted both men and women , act. . . & . . mr. h. arg . the church which the plaintiff must tell , is to admonish publickly the offender . but this is the church of elders , . thes , . . . tim. . . luk. . . for they onely are to receive publick complaints , tit. . . tim. . . tim. . . ans. complaints are to be given to the elders , that they may prepare them for the congregation , and lend the action . t●●●efore the incestuous corinthian 〈◊〉 said to be r●… of many , and so judged of many , not by the judgement only of discration ; for so they might judge these that were without , but legally . ans. mr. h. answers not one word of scripture for telling the complaints to the elders . christ saith , tell the church , that is , tell all the visible saints , say our brethren . . that the incestuous corinthian was rebuked legally of many , that is , of the elders and brethren , or male-church only , that is said , not proved . if we speak of judging by the judgement of discretion , he was rebuked of elders , brethren , women , aged children , servants , for it concerned them in conscience to have knowledge of it , and to yield to withdraw from him , and to forgive him , upon his repentance to joyn with him , else their obedience must be blind . . the minor is false . . for though they judge heathen with the judgement of discretion , it follows not , that therefore brethren , women , aged children , and servants should not also judge an excommunicate person by the same judgement . . the probation is faulty , for i appeal to the conscience of our brethren , whether there be not sundry kinds of judgement of discretion , and whether church-members have not one kind of judgement of discretion toward the excommunicate man , who is now under a medicinal church-cure , and another judgement of discretion toward them that are without , and were never members . mr. h. to mr. r. his twelfth argument , it hath received an 〈◊〉 out of a mistake , because neither women alone , nor children will make a church , nor have any publick power put into their hands for that purpose . ans. i never said in any argument , that women and children there alone ma●e a church , nor spake i of womens ruling there : but yet i say , women , children of years of discretion , serva●●s being the lords freemen and professing the faith . arg. . the essential parts and largest part of the congregation●… church of believers , professing the faith of peter builded upon the rock , mat. . ●●●ting every lords day to partake of all the ordinances ; and therefore if the church , mat. . signifie such a church 〈◊〉 ●hat which you say , women and such children and servants must especially be understood as parts thereof , under the name of the church , tell the church , and if so , the church to which we complain , doth not bind and loose by your own grant . . what ground is there in the word , that the brethren alone , because men should , only be mooned by the name of the instituted church in the gospel , or the 〈◊〉 church of believers , partakers of all the ordinances , excluding women and such children and servants , since there 〈◊〉 neither made nor female , bound nor free to be regarded in the condtion of believing visible saints ? gal. . . 〈◊〉 . . cor. . , . so is not this very like to the respect of persons condemned by the apostle i●… , ch . , , , . when brethren because of their sex , and heads of families must be the only church of believers , built upon the rock , the body of christ , the kingdom of christ , the redeemed of god , partakers of all the precious ordinances , and the only visible church above all the officers , women , children , servants ? . nor hath such a church of only few , any such power put in their hand , and so to say , because it is said , tell the church , except mr. h. prove them to be the governing church above the officers , is to beg the question ; for mr. cotton and mr. burroughs say , without officers the brethren can exercise n● jurisdiction , no excommunication , one of the highest acts of rude in the church ; they have nothing without the officers ( saith mr. burroughs ) but brotherly admonition , no jurisdiction . and mr. h. is to give a parallel place in old and new testament if he hear not the church , id est , the male-church of brethren , let him be cast out . mr. h. arg. . not only the church must convene to worship god in spirit and truth , but that they bind and loose by the pastoral spirit of paul , and officers in their convention . ans. the church met hath power to execute all acts of discipline , as well as doctrine . . the church of corinth is blamed , because without the knowledge of paul , or his authority ( as they ought to have done ) they did not excommunicate the incestuous person , only for their encouragement , he expresseth his consent , and the concurrence of his spirit . ans. that the church of believers without the pastoral spirit and authority of paul or any other officer , and excluding the tacit consent of women , children of age , and believing servants , could exercise all acts of discipline and doctrine , that is , of pastoral preaching , destroyes mr. h. his principles ; for who can preach but sent pastors ? rom. . . not unofficed brethren . and as to the point of jurisdiction , mr. cotton and mr. burroughs , with me , deny it , and mr. h. nakedly saith it . that the church of corinth was rebuked for not excommunicating the man , is true : but . what means he by the church rebuked ? . all that were rebuked must be the church ; can mr. h. deny but women , children of years , servants , were rebuked , as those who were puffed up , and mourned not ? ver . , . . and as those who were a part , and the largest part of the lump , that is , of the body of the people in danger to be leavened with that scandal , ver . . . as those who were to keep the feast ( christ being sacrificed for them ) with sincerity , ver . . . as those who should not familiarly converse with scandalous fornicators , ver . . but all of them were to judge , and put away the wicked person from among them , ver . . in a way suitable to their place , that is , the officers with pauls spirit , or a pastoral authority like unto it , the brethren , women , children of age , and servants , professing the faith in their way , by consenting , and by the judgement of discretion so far as belonged to their practise in withdrawing from the delinquent . . not did i deny that the church of corinth should have excommunicated the man before paul wrote to them , but that they should have done it without pauls knowledge , is onely said , not proved ; and that any save officers , and such as were indued with such a pastoral spirit as was in paul , could have done it , is onely asserted by mr. h. his sole word ; and this answer insinuates , that the onely male-church did it , and they needed not any pastoral spirit ; onely paul addeth ex superabundanti his encouraging consent , whereas the work might have been done without officers by this new male-jurisdiction , which is contradicted by mr. cotton , and not owned by the scripture . lib . iii. chap. i. of the first subject of ecclesiastick power : of the delegated power of the church . there is a double authority , one supreme and monarchical onely in christ , and another subordinate and delegate ; which 〈◊〉 a right given by commission from christ to fit person● , to act i● his house according to his order . by right , is meant jus , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which according to god , certain persons possess in their external administrations issuing from such special relations , unto which they are called by christ. . it s given to 〈◊〉 persons who are capable to receive this power , not to women , children , ●ad-men , &c. therefore let the reader take notice of that , as not worthy to be considered . if power be in the church of believers , then women and children may exercise it , 〈◊〉 mr. ball , mr. r. for they are not fit persons appointed by christ to manage this power . lastly , they must act according to gods order . the whole church is an army terrible with banners , but the parts do fight in their own order : the power is in the whole firstly , but each part knows his rank ; the officers in their part , order and manner , the members in theirs . the whole acts some things immediately , some things mediately . ans. a mona●chical power in christ we know , and authority delegate of jurisdiction in the ambassadors and officers , who are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , thess. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , heb. . . rulers we know : but that the people or church of believers especially separated from officers , are called rulers , or indued with any delegate power over we know not whom , we reade not in scripture . . by the keyes he must mean both the keyes of knowledge and of jurisdiction : but what scripture gives the pastoral key to unofficed brethren ? i do not know a right given to fit persons , without any mentioning of the first subject , the church of confederate saints , as mr. h. which includes women , children of age , servants , ( for these are fit persons to be members of the church built on the rock ) and of the church of believers ) ergo , they are fit persons , and as fit , some of them , to wit , children of years of discretion , and believing servants , as the brethren ; for neither sex , nor want of understanding , nor distemper of judgement , the three causes of unfitness owned by mr. h. can render them more uncapable than the brethren : yea , the brethren being often unlettered tradesmen , and many of them dull and rude , though believers , are most unfit persons to judge of sound and unsound doctrine , and of controverted points , whether the pastors teach perverse things , acts . . hold the doctrine of balaam , rev. . . or not ; and yet by mr. h. they are the onely , and none but they are to judge and try the learning , ability of pastors , unsoundness in socinian , antinomian , popish , arminian , &c. tenets , though they know no more the tongues , arts nor sciences , than some priests who can scarce reade the mass-book in latine , nor understand the languge thereof ; and they onely have power to depose them all for ignorance and heresie . . as for women , they are redeemed , built on the rock , and have a voice tacit , or no , let mr. hooker say . . to choose or refuse officers , . they are of the sheep that can discern the voice of christ in sent pastors , joh. and this is mr. h. his argument to prove that the people should call their own pastors , as hereafttr he saith . . women must have a vote in admission of members , which mr. h. calls potestatem judicii , a power of judging ; for they are not to own as church members , and to rehuke , and tell the church , and to gain brethren and sisters blindly ; they , by the judgement of discretion , if not by more , according to mr. h. must have some hand in this . women are to try , by the judgement of discretion , the spirits of teachers , whether antichristian or not , whether they be of god , or no , and to hold what is good , as men , ioh. . . thess. . . ergo , they must try both men and doctrines ; and must , as was said , withdraw from the unsound and scandalous : therefore what mr. ball and mr. r. say touching them , must be considered , if the power be in the whole church firstly , then must the power of the keyes be in all the members firstly also , if logick have place ; and if it be in all , then it s in women : how came it to women ? shew the scripture . and whereas mr. h. saith , the whole church is terrible as an army with banners , it saith , the church ruling and conquering by the keyes both of knowledge and iurisdiction , is made up of ruled commanders , and ruled souldiers , not of a number of onely brethren ; and souldiery acts of ruling ( for of the church that beareth the keyes mr. h. must now speak ) in women mr. r. would know : for that terribleness is in acts of discipline , not a little : if all be terrible , then also women . your homogeneous church , which onely , and none but they , by mr. h. his doctrine , may lift a banner against all the officers , and depose and excommunicate them every man : but mr. cotton saith to this , what haste brother mr. h ? mr. h. this power is either a power of many when combined , and this is either a power — of judging , judicii ; or of donation : or its power in one a power of office : the power of judgement the whole hath , and doth use in admissions and excommunication : the same pow●r that takes in must cast out . ans. the distinction of power of office or order in one who is a pastor , and of jurisdiction in many in a presbytery , is warranted by scripture . but for the power of judging , and of giving of power , potest as donationis , to others to preach and administer the seals , in the people who have no power themselves , it hath neither the countenance of scripture nor reason , and is but a device of merellius holden by mr. h. calvin saith , the thing before judged was cleared to the people . pet. martyr , pareus , and others , say well , excommunication would not be done nisi plebe consentiente , without the consent of the people ; which includes women and servants , over whose consciences , faith and practise , rulers are not to domineer , more than over the consciences of men . cyprian by the plebs and universa fraternitas , the people and fraternity , understands the whole redeemed flock , men and women . it s true , cyprian threatens some presbyters , that if they go on in their scandalous way , they should give an account to the people , apud plebem universalem ; and writes to some that desired to be reconciled to the church of carthage , all things shall be examined , you the people being present . but judging there , as frequently with cyprian , is no authoritative judging given to the people . he who answers to pamelius in his learned annotations , gives no more to the people , but the knowledge of church-affairs : about anno . as eusebius saith , simeon the son of cleophas is chosen in the room of iames , all the disciples consenting . the council of carthage , anno . let not a bishop ordain any clergy-man without an assembly of the clergy , and let him seek the peoples consent , connivance and testimony . so was cornelius made bishop of rome by the authority of god and of the clergy , and by the suffrages of the people . our divines , bucerus , calvin , bucanus , tilenus , beza , virttut , give consenting , and in some cases correcting , not judicial power sure , but which is great enough , a negative consent for eschewing of a schism . and the professors of leyden , urfine , pareus , iunius , give the people a vote , a consent in excommunication : and this cannot exclude women who are offended , when the whole church is offended . the times of ambrose did witness more pride in the clergie , who began to do all without the people . chemnitius , daneus , the confession of bohemià , of helvetia , the synod of middleburgh , the synod of tylleburgh in nassovia , anno . teach , that the whole church with consent of all did excommunicate , but the judging authority is in the eldership . mr. h. the power of election is especially to be attended by the end , as a corporation hath power to choose a major , and to give him power . . the safety of the whole is to be attended , and that is to submit one to another , and be rebuked one by another . ans. papists prove . the pope and prelats from such have their warrant , peoples choosing of their pastor is from the rule of the word , not from civil corporation , from which it differs . . the people makes one of no king to be a king , and does not onely choose him , chron. . the people kinged solomon ; s●ul , sam. . . david , chron. . . but the choice of the people doth not make an officer , but the laying on of the hands , or ordination of the presbytery doth that , tim. . . tim. . . tit. . . act. . . . the corporation civil may limit the major in regard of time , for a year , and no longer : . they may make him half a tyrant , a dictator , and absolute , or give him less power , that he shall rule none but with the consent of ass●ssors ; but the people may not make him a pastor for a year , and then lay him aside for no fault , as a major is unofficed ; nor may they limit him so as he shall not preach in season and out of season , but by the consent of men . . the corporation may erect it self in a kingdome or commonwealth , and may create consuls , dictators , praetors , tribunos plebis , &c. as may most serve for the safety and peace of this state : but the church may bring in no new officers , but those appointed by christ ; nor may they alter the government , and metamorphose it into another than that which is according to the pattern shewed in the mount. . women and servants have no vote in choosing or creating rulers , but since they are to be fed , and this concerns their conscience , it is not so here in the church ; though men may domineer over the civil power of women , yet not over their faith . if some acts were to be performed by a king or major , without the skill & knowledge of counsellors , and of which the counsellors are as ignorant as the church of believers ordinarily are of tongues and controversies , it might well be said , that the wisdome of god never appointed such counsellors , and for such an end , as to appoint such men to be counsellors , and such to create pastors ; and therefore it s a naughty argument taken from a civil corporation , and popish . from a worldly monarchy , papists prove their monarchy in the church . yea , this argument proves , . that pastors as pastors have no warrant by any institution of christ , to try , ordain , and lay on hands upon pastors : for . that which is to be done according to divine i●stitution by a company of visible believers , to whom christ hath committed the power of the keyes , as to the first and prime subject , before officers be created , that cannot be done by officers , as having the power of these keys . . so visible saints and women , as well , yea , and by better right , might appoint elders , i. e. chuse and elect them in every city , then titus could do ; yea . tit. . . 〈◊〉 tim. 〈◊〉 . . 〈◊〉 b●tter right then timothy : as for the place eph. . . wh●●h mr. h. had no leisure to cite , every one submit unto another , what logick is here ? is every woma● a church to another ? for it is not spoken of church-subj●ction , but as ambrose , of the subjection of humility . mr. r boide , zanchius , of t●e subjection in families , and common-wealths , as of the wife to the husband , the children to the parents , of the subjection of l●ve , as calvin and beza . hieronymus , poni● general● principium politiae christiana . so caj●tan . paul baines saith , it is the submission of humility , which the highest owe to the lowest , the husband to the wife ; is not every woman the daughter to submit to the mother ? is not this a busing of scripture ? may not the father & the son be in divers congregations ? and though it were meant of church subjection , owe not i church-subjection to these of another congregation , as to these of my own ? and should mr. h. limit the sense of the holy ghost to one single congregation , i. e. submit only to these of your own congregation ? mr. h. the power of rebuking pertains to all , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to rebuke , mat. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to judge , cor. . ● . both which express acts of proceeding in a judicial way , the whole may censure the part ; they are superior , as officers , when they keep the rule , but inferior , as members , and in submission , when they break the rule . ans. there is little logick in dividing the power of private judging , which every one owe to another ( no man is a church to his brother ) into a power of rebuking , and a power of church-judging ; for that cor. . . is the church-judging by excommunication : so the face is where the neck should be . . the rebuking , mat. . . is indeed in order to church-rebuking , and to excommunication ; yea , to rebuke is a duty of the law of nature , lev. . . ps. . . but by mr. h. his way , i must rebuke none but offenders of my own congregation . may i not then rebuke , but hate brethren of another congregation ? for so moses expoundeth lev. . . . if to rebuke be a judicial church-rebuking ; i pray you , may not women rebuke women and men both , and labour to gain them , if they trespass , and to tell the church ? sure , abigail , pilates wife , sarah , and other godly women did rebuke , counsel , and complain of offences , and they are not exempted from this duty of the law of nature . doth not then m. h. clothe women with a church-power ? and why but as iezabel and wanton widows are censurable , rev. . . tim. . . may they not rebuke ? and it appears that a brother must forgive until seventy seven times ( for upon this occasion peter moves the question , mat. . , , . ) but not so , women , aged children , and servants , for they must be less apt to forgive then men . . if mr. h. so much please himself in dichotomies , why but to these two he might have added cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to forgive , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to comfort ; and others also , as teaching , exhorting ? all which cannot be taken from women , servants , aged children , except you ex●me them from the law of love. and howbeit the rebuker be the superiour as he rebukes ( which yet is not true in an unjust rebuker , for he is inferiour ) yet either too much shall be taken from , or too much given to godly women by mr. h. his way . mr. h. objects , if the people should censure the pastors , then there should be pastors of pastors , and the sheep should be shepherds , not the sheep . ans. the consequence is feeble , because the people judge not as officers , but as members of the whole , to whom by vertue of the common laws of combination they have subjected themselves to be ordered , for the common good . ans. mr. h fathers not this argument upon me , nor upon any of ours , but stapleton , grego . de valen. toletus , pererius , esthius , and other papists , who urge the like to exime their clergy from being subject to civil powers . own the argument , for then the shepherd should be subject to the sheep , which is not absurd , in diverso causarum genere . but these who gave power as officers to excommunicate , are here ruled by such as have that power , and such , to wit , the people and flock , have that power , have the keys . . are to edifie by excommunication , cor. . . cor. . . tim. . . . the rulers are to obey the people , as such , who watch for their souls , heb. . . . take heed that they perish not , and therefore must give warning and rebuke , lest these perish over whom they have the power of the rod that way . and so the people authoritatively watch for their shepherds , and the shepherds , to wit , all the officers must submit unto the sheep , the people , as being over them in the lord , having the power of excommunication above their heads . . it is but a conceit , to say , that the brethren excommunicate not their pastors as if they were officers , for they excommunicate them , as having received the keys to use them against their pastors , as the church having authoritative power over their pastors , as members of the church ; and it hath no sense to say , that the church excommunicates , not as the church , and contrary to mat. . , . nor can members as members excommunicate ; but saith he , the officers are not excommunicated as officers , but as members . nor are any the most scandalous excommunicated as officers , or as saints , or as members , but as scandalous officers , or scandalous professors , or as rotten and leavening members corrupting the whole lump . mr. h. suppose the members of a class offend , the rest who censure them are not pastors of pastors to these whom they censure . ans. the whole watch for themselves , and rule , and govern themselves , as the parliament do rule their own members . but it is non-sense to say that the sheep are in the lord over the flock , for the scripture saith the contrary , heb. . . thes. . , . v. . mr. h. suppose the pastors turn hereticks , the ruling elders with the rest consure them ; here are the inferiours judging the superiours . ans. this is to beg the question , for if there be none to excommunicate the pastors , but only the ruling elder with the people , christ committed not half a key to any society . the key of ruling without the key of preaching is committed to no society on earth ; and therefore not to the rul●ng elder with the peopl● . if there be more teaching pastors with the ruling elders , then an heretical pastor may be censured by the whole judicature , and by the ruling elders in collegio , where he hath an equal vote with the teaching pastor , and doth not as an inferiour judge the teaching elder , but as a collateral and joynt judge censure with the whole judicature . mr. h. it s a staple rule , no man by nature hath an ecclesiastical power over another by constraint ; one comes a christian convert from china , to a countrey or city where many churches are , none of them can , by the rule of the gospel , compel him to joyn with one more than another . he may freely choose what is most suitable to his heart , and may be most to promote his spiritual edification . ans. neither civil nor ecclesiastick power here hath place . . this staple rule ( mr. h. abounds with staple rules which are much irregular ) except it be proved by the word , is a staple untruth . no man by nature hath a spiritual power , either gift , office , or grace : but by nature here is opposed to free consent . children born in abrahams house are without free consent members of that church : be it so , one congregation more than another cannot compel the china-convert to be a member of their congregation ; but if he be baptized and profess , the godly magistrate may compel him to hear the word , and receive the seals in the place he resides , so it be a sound church . the magistrate cannot compel him to faith and heart duties , but he may compel him to external profession ; nor doth his being a member of this rather than of any other church , make him a member of th● visible church ; nor is that any thing but staple forgery : the ●uler cannot compel a man to love his neighbour , but he can c●mpel him to the external duties of love , and punish him if against love he beat or kill his neighbour . he cannot compel any to the faith , but if one come to years desert his faith professed in baptism , both the church and the magistrate may punish him as a run away . the church cannot by carnal weapons ( saith he ) impose any church-constitution , as nature gives not this power ecclesiastick : true , it is a free gift of god : so a civil ruler ( saith he ) should not impose it , that is a poor consequence , he should impose all civil duties that are external , and which the mans baptism and profession ties him unto . what ever is done here ( saith he ) in the constitution of churches , is done by an ecclesiastick rule , not by a rule of policy . this yet is most weak . the magistrate makes no rule of constitution of churches , nor any ecclesiastical rule , as mr. h. saith . but it follows not , therefore he cannot impose it , when it is made . the magistrate makes not the hearing of the gospel to be lawful ; but it follows not , ergo as the preserver of both tables of the law , he may not command christian subjects to hear the gospel : yea , to me its most probable , he may compel heathen people lawfully conquered to desist from idolatry , blaspheming of christ , and to hear the gospel . the man comes from china acknowledging god in all his wayes , as abraham left his countrey , gen. . if he be an idolater , they should not lodge him , ioh. . he comes not as indifferent to be married to this or this church , or to none at all ; as a man sins not if he marry none at all , cor. . but if he be a professor that joyns to no church , he lives scandalously ; therefore the adequate cause of membership , or to this membership , is not mutual consent , as in marriage , but both parties are under a command to confess christ before men ; and it s a selfish thing to make a mans own heart the judge and determiner of his membership , and not the churches led by the rule of the word : and so the church is obliged to receive him , and he is obliged to joyn a member , according to cant. . , . mat. . . mr. h. the power scattered in many , when they are voluntarily combined , they may give it to one , and this is a power of office , and they may covenant to submit to him their united right . hence it is more than plain , they may give a call and power to such and such to be pastors , and yet themselves be no pastors . christ gave some to be pastors , ephes. . he furnishes men , corinth . . . ans. where is mr. h. his logick now ? why made he not once a syllogism , or a face of a consequence ? . there is a power scattered in many . what power ? of ordaining by laying on of hands to make men to be pastors which were none before ? by what shadow of scripture or reason is this said ? one half of a command , or promise or practise shall silence me , if they may give their scattered powers of jurisdiction to one , they may create a monarch , an arch-pastor or pope over themselves . i judge mr. h. thinks not so : but scripture should here speak , and not mr. h. and tell us , who gave to people , to men and to women ( who have no less a power to know the voice of christ in this pastor , and to choose an officer than men ) the scattered powers official to call and create officers . . they may give this power to one : prove this ; it s a non ●ns , a power of ordaining even virtual they have not , therefore they cannot give it . . christ gave gifts to men , god hath placed pastors in the church , apostles : what ! ergo , the people gives power of being apostles , pastors , to men who were not apostles and pastors before ? this is mr. h. his argument : are mr. h. his words oracles , and principles that cannot be denied ? . the people , men and women as sheep , choose a pastor by no act of iurisdiction , saith amesius , but rather by subjectione and election makes not a minister , but onely appropriates his labours to his people , quoad administrationem , saith cyprian , ordination is the call and juridical sending . now the apostles and presbytery ordained elders , tit. . . laid on hands and ordained , acts . . tim . . tim. . . committed the charge to faithful men , able to teach others . tim. . . tim. . , . . shew me so much for your new male-church , excluding females , who may be unbaptized men converted in china . mr. h. a divided power in many , is not an united power from many . the peoples is a divided power , lying in many combined , and therefore not the same . hence the power of judgement is not the power of office , and therefore the fraternity may have the one , when they have not the other . ans. here is no argument at all . this new church , that now is called the fraternity , a new name , not in scripture , in this sense hath neither a divided nor an united power , to make , ordain and call to the holy ministery one who was no minister before ; and so the question is begged , a divided power to choose in many , is not an united power . it s true of the power of electing and choosing of officers , they are divers powers , and therefore the society hath the united power of choosing a minister : but some men there alone have not a power , being divided from the church of women , children and servants . . mr. h. finding himself ebbe in proving , he tells us , that the fraternity may have the power of judging , and not of office : and he hath given no word of god to prove , that the power of office , and the power of juridical judging ( for of that we now speak , for the judgement of discretion women have ) are different , that is , in divers subjects : but i deny that any hath official power , but that man hath juridical power also ; or that any hath juridical power , but he hath also a power of office . mr. h. brings no argument of the weight of a feather on the contrary . i deny not but they have divers formal exceptions , and because the power of judgement is not the power of office , therefore the fraternity may have the one , not the other . weak logick . differunt conceptibus formalibus , ergo , differunt subjectis . a power of discoursing , rationale , is not a power of laughing , risibile ; sure : and therefore ( saith this simple logick ) a man may have the one , and not have the other , that is , a man may be rational , and yet not risible : i am sorry that godly and judicious men build such hay and stubble upon the foundation . . why does mr. h. give this new church a latine name , the fraternity , that is , a church of redeemed ones built on the rock , made up of brethren and no sisters ? ah! are women , servants , aged children , nor redeemed , not built on the rock ? so is there a gospel-instituted church described . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as stephanus tells us , is onely twice in the new testament : pet. . . love the brotherhood , that is , the company of the brethren , say mr. leigh , beza , calvin , english annotators . the company of the brethren ; lorinus , the church ; esthius , the brethren by regeneration , and new birth . so piscator , the brethren that are regenerated ; as the nobility is put for the nobles . let any man judge , if name or thing be so much as hinted at , when paul and the rest of the apostles export the brethren , iam. . . my brethren , swear not , does he not forbid women to swear ? or speak they of the brethren onely of a single congregation ? yea , and when paul determined to come to the brethren at rome , rom. . , . to whom he was debtor to preach the gospel , came he onely as such a debtor to brethren of a single congregation ? or onely such brethren of a single congregation justified by faith ? are they onely no debtors to the flesh ? rom. . . & . . & . . & . . wherefore my brethren , ye are bec●me dead to the law by the body of christ : are not women dead to the law through christ ? see rom. . . cor. . , . and in many places of the old and new testament , if the scripture mean onely unofficed men by the fraternity and brethren . cyprian hath the word fraternity , the whole fraternity : but all that reade him know , he means most ordinarily the whole church and flock of men and women . and when it is taken for onely men , it is brethren in office , act. . . & . . never for brethren of this new devised church . augustine useth it sometime for brethren in the ministery , and so doth basil and the fathers . mr. h. however the elders are superior to the fraternity in regard of office , rule , act and exercise , which is proper onely to them , and not to the fraternity , the people or church are superiour to the elders in point of censure , each have their full scope in their own sphere and compass : the office of major , king , emperour is not prejudged , because the corporation , parliament , princes and states for faults may depose them . ans. what he calls the fraternity in the one line , in the next he calls it without all scripture , the people or church , as if women and servants were no part of the people and church redeemed by christ. . whereas he makes the people or church superior to the elders ( all of them if hereticks ) in regard of censure , not of office and rule : he makes censuring or excommunicating no part of rule , contrary to scripture . excommunicating is either an act of teaching ; or . of administring the seals ; or . of visiting , by private exhorting , convincing or comforting , for an act of feeding for publick edification it must be , cor. . . cor. . . but that it can be none of these , it needs no probation ; to excommunicate , is not to preach , &c. . it is contrary to mr. cottons words . . the ordinance of christ is prejudged , where ●nofficed men take on them the name of the church , and are not the church , and to excommunicate , where they have no such power of the keyes given to them by any word of christ. the instances of a major , king , &c. prove nothing : all free societies may , by the law of god , create , and also choose solomon , david to be their king , and unking them again for a fault , as elsewhere i have proved . and here is a clear law of god , but that a new devised fraternity of some few unofficed brethren should rule and over-rule , and the sheep excommunicate all their officers , must have a word of institution , not mr. h. his naked word . m. h. hence the censure of excommunication , for the act is common to the elders , onely for the manner of managing of it , its peculiar for the elders to be leaders in that action : and thence it is they are called ( leaders ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , heb. . . ans. i know not why the censure of excommunication should not be common to both the elders and this new fraternity , both in regard of the power and the act of excommunication , except mr. h. shew , that the office addes a new power of excommunication , which the fraternity hath not ; and if so , . the fraternity , before they were officers , and now when they are all turned grievous wolves , do excommunicate , and yet they want this new official power of excommunication , which is strange ; for then they shall not have the complete power of excommunication : and yet they exercise the act with commission from christ. . it is to me a mystery , what superiority in the manner of managing the act of excommunication , the officers have above the fraternity , they load , i. e. they preside and moderate in the actual d●●pensing of censures , and therefore are called overs●●rs , heb. . . good ; ergo , moderating the acts of judging , makes the pastor an overseer and watcher for the souls of the members of the iudicature , as one who must give an account to god , for so the place heb. . . . is . was ever scripture so tortured ? the scope of that place is , heb. . that men , women , obey their watchmen , feeding by the word preached , by seals and censures , the flock ; so the words . so beza , calvin , pareus , marlorat , piscator ; so cajitanus , iustinus martyr , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rulers . never man , i dare say , father , protestant , lu●●●ran , papist , or interpreter , who expound that passage , dreamed that the officers are called overseers , heb. . , . because they lead and preside , or convene and dissolve the congregation . for it follows , the moderator of a judicature hath a superiority of office over the members of the synod , and watches for their souls . . that he is the pastor of elders and pastors in the act of excommunication , and rules them , but reacheth them not , and this is the prelate . . when there be twelve pastors over one congregation of ierusalem in acts of censure , peter or some other leading the action , must be a pope with superiority of office over these to watch for their soul● . when the brethren excommunicate all their officers , an unofficed brother must lead the action as an overseer , heb. . ● . what superiority of jurisdiction hath this or any moderator or speaker in parliament , or prolocutor in a synod ? for he hath but one vote . if it be a priority of honour , for age , and grace and gifts , we must obey all the aged , and such as in learning and holiness exceed us , for they watch for our souls , by the place heb. . . as mr. h. teacheth us . chap. ii. of the first subject of the power of the keys . mr. h. the power of the keys is committed to the church of confederate saints , as to the first subject thereof ; it is no new opinion . . i oppose fathers to fathers . . if it be in the peoples power to hinder excommunication to take place , then the elders only have not a power given them of christ , to manage this : but this is against the wisdom of christ to ordain means that cannot attain the end ; which must be , if the people may ●inder it . ans. if man be the first and proper subject of capacity to laugh , then must all contained under this subject , peter , ann● , be capable to laugh ; but women , servants , aged children are as properly the confederate and inchurched saints by mr. h. his words , as men . cyprian and most of the fathers take in the people with the rulers in the exercise of censures , by way of consent ; but without vanity , i say , never fathers , greek or or latine , councels , old or late , doctors , schoolmen , prote ●ant , papist , or any divine , till of late the socinians , and now the brethren of the congregational way , and the separatists and anabapti●●s taught , that the church of believers of a single congregation , hath formally a power of jurisdiction in them to make and unmake officers , to call and excommunicate them . but you shall find all the principles and grounds of this new way 〈◊〉 the arminian authors and socinians cited in the margin ; and mr. h. never laboured to vindicate their way from these impure sects . for , . they deny the notes of the visible church , as the brethren do against the reformed churches . . they deny the word church , either mat. . or elsewhere to signifie any thing but believers , never rulers only . . they deny the definition of a visible church , from a profession , and require reality of holiness , at least some of them , as our brethren with anabaptists do . . episcopius maintains separation . . they deny all jurisdiction and necessity of lawful synods , as our brethren do . . all churches to them are visible congregations which meet in one place to hear the word ; so our brethren churches of c● . in new england , c. . sect . . par . , . and mr : h. . our brethren reject ordination by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery , and all juridical mission by officers of associate churches , and teach that aptness to teach , and holiness of live is sufficient for a call , so the people desire them , or chuse them ; and so do also the arminians and socinians . . th●● the whole church , id est , the brethren , and the officers by accident , being only separable adjuncts of the church , have a juridical power of excommunication ; so socinians acknowledge all the godly and believers to be the visible church , though scattered all the world over , and reject the authority of all visible churches and councels , deny all juridical calling and ordination ; so that it is clear that they judge the visible professors and people to be the visible church , which governs and excommunicates , which is the mind of mr. hooker . mr. h. and the brethren and ( . ) some socinians , as nicolaides and others , hold that wicked men by no law of god are to be suffered in the visible church , and they are not there iure . mr. h. offends , that unregenerated men , when known to be such , are to be suffered to be there , or that the ordinances should be dispenced to them ; which to be , is against . the patience and meekness of christ ( i speak of the known non-regenerated , that are not scandalous ) and so against the patience and meekness required in his servants and church in order to his end . . against the institution of the visible church , the schoole of christ ; no master ought to exclude out of the school a child , who though dull of learning , yet is well disposed , and keepes the laws of order and discipline ; for it is ordained ●o fine , that the non-regenerate may be effectually called . . none should be excommunicated , but these who are extremely scandalous , or obstinate ; and so none are to be excommunicated for simple non-regeneration , which can appear only to be non-regeneration to some regenerate only , ps. . . and not to them infallibly . . by the command of christ , and so jure , iohn baptist baptized huge multitudes , of whom he had no assurance that they were regenerate , when by the spirit of god he names them a generation of vipers , and rebukes them as hypocrites , who thought it holiness enough to be the carnally born sons of abraham , mat. . . i do not speak this to lay any odium upon the brethren , as if they loved the wayes of arminians and socinians , but upon a twofold account . . because mr. h. passes all what i said of this , as not worthy the answering ; though indeed , to speak or comply in opinions with enemies to christ , his redemption , satisfaction , and free grace , is not overly to be looked on ; especially in a new frame of government spiritual in the house of god. . because the presbytery is called antichristian , prelatical , formal , by our brethren . i love not high appeals , judging that they often fail against the third command ; as for toleration maintained by socinians and arminians i impute it not to mr. h. or the brethren of n. e. but there be not many , to my knowledge ( i say no further ) for the congregatonal way , but they are for toleration in non-fundamentals : and how few fundamentals there be possibly . . what they are , who can define ? so that this way seems to me no less new , then other sinful ways of arminians and socinians ; and what mischiefe toleration brings forth in britain also . lastly , we hold that censures should not be dispenced against the peoples mind ; for as augustine saith , the censure shall not edifie , if most of the people be infected with the same scandal ; and if the people shall not in their practices yield , it may breed a separation and a schism . but it is a naughty consequence , if the people may hinder excommunication , then it is no ordinance of god , which is executed without the peoples judicial power ; this follows not , except the people had a ius , a judicial power from christ to hinder excommunication , which they have not ; yea , and though they had a judicial power , yet if they use it not right , but abuse that judicial power ( suppose they had it ) it follows not , ergo , excommunication is not an ordinance of god. for , . the elders may abuse their power , and so hinder excommunication ; and without them , saith mr. cotton , no act of ruling and excommunicating can be ; shall therefore excommunication be no ordinance ? persecutors do hinder the preaching of the gospel , shall the preaching of the gospel for that be no ordinance of god ? but the people lawfully may withdraw their consent , and then there shall be no excommunication . this yet proves not ; if the peoples power lawfully used hinder undue excommunication , then the elders onely have not power . for the peoples power lawfully used , hindered king saul to put ionathan to death , and hindered all the judges from doing the same ; ergo , king saul and the judges only have not judicial power of life and death , but the people have it also ? it follows not : yea , but ( saith he ) that christ shall appoint a means of reformation , and purging the church , that in an ordinary course shall not attain the end , is deeply prejudicial to the faithfulness , wisdom , and power of christ : any manner of way this is an argument carnall and humane . . where hath christ interposed his faithfulness and wisdom , that if officers and brethren make use of the judicial power he hath given to them , the church shall be actually purged , is not this the question ? . where hath he promised a reformed church , in case these who have power to reform , stand in the way , shall christs wisdome be accused , or the gospel reproched , because either men hinder it to be preached , or these to whom it is preached , believe it not ? or does the faithfulness of god fail , though all men are lyars ? rom. . is his wisedom darkned , though all become vain and foolish in their imaginations ? yea , if women , servants , children of age refuse to withdraw from the excommunicate , the censure cannot edifie ; they have not for that a judicial power to excommunicate by mr. h. his way . mr. h. the keys of the kingdom , by way of metaphor , signifies all that ministerial power by christ dispenced , and from christ received ; whereby all the affairs of his house , in point of opening to such as stoop to him , and of shutting to such as will not come under his authority , are acted according to his mind . ans. learned mr. wilson , mr. liegh , beza , beda , chrysostome , augustine , ierom , cyprian , tell us that the keys noteth ministerial power , never since learning and tongues were in the world , given to unofficed and private men , to exercise and make use of them , but to the oeconomus master-houshold , or steward . cyprian , and the learned annotator , who answers pamelius , make stantes distinguished from these who fell a part of the church , because they are not utterly to be debarred ut prophani & canes , as prophane , ab omni rerum ecclesiasticarum cognitione , but never indued with juridical power , as the rulers ; to these mr. h answers nothing : onely all such means ( saith he ) as are sufficient , private , or publick , to open and shut heaven , may be called the keys . all means of promises and threatnings in the mouths of women . abigail and others of ged children and servants , yea , and of these of another congregation are sure means of the word , for opening and shutting heaven ; shall these women and children , and servants , for that bear the keys of the kingdom of god ? mr. h. the key of royalty is only in christ , the key of charity in the hand of all believers , who out of christian love lend some help , but have no power judicial to proceed . there is the key of subordinate power which only such and all such have as are combined in a special corporation , and come under the external government of the scepter of christ ; such have good law to proceed against such as will not stoop to the rule . ans. . what the brethren have more then the key of charity , to lend help out of love , is the debate ; sure if women be not excluded from the law of love , this key cannot be taken from them . . if only such , and all such ( omne & solum ) as are combined in a speciall corporation , have the key of subordinate power ; this power essentially and universally must agree to the so combined body . but women , aged children , servants , are especially combined by the church-covenant , as is easie to prove from mr. h. quod convenit omni & soli convenit reciprocè & universaliter . ergo , only the combined church-members , and all the church-members ( so women ) must excommunicate , and all for them ; then the officers , as members combined , not as officers do excommunicate ; i quit all logick , if this can be eluded . now mr. h. sayes that confederate saints , all , and onely have the keys . mr. h. pro. . the keys of subordinate power are seated firstly in the church , and by vertue of the church , they are communicated to any that in any measure or manner share therein : heat to first in the fire , as its proper subject , the faculty of sense belongs first to the sensitive soul , &c. ans. the power of the keys belongs to the church of believers , of men and women , as the first virtual subject . . to the rulers and guides , as to the formal subject ; as heat is in the fire , so every part of the fire is formally hot , as a part of the first formal subject : as iron is hot by participation , by the fire . but by this mr. h. must say all the parts of the churches of believers are endued with this power of binding and loosing , as the partial and incomplete subject . so yetmust women , children and servants be endued formally with the judicial power of the keys : but this is false . . the keys are in the whole , in the exercise , in the rulers formally by the judicial power inherent in them , in the people , men , and women by consent , not by any inherent formal power juridical . . the keys belong to all rulers , ruled , men , women , masters , servants , parents , children , objectively and finaliter for the edification of the whole body , and every part thereof , eph. . , . cor. . mr. h. is suits not with right reason to cast some part of the power firstly upon the people , some part upon the rulers , as though there were two first subjects of this power which the letter of the text gainsayeth , to thee will i give , not to them : it were to speak daggers and contradictions to make but one first subject of the power , and yet have others to share in this power , is more wide from the mark . ans. judge if it suits with reason , which judicious and godly mr. cotton saith , when the church of a particular congregation walketh together in the truth , all the brethren of the church are the first subject of church liberty , and the elders thereof of church-authority , and both of them together , are the first subject of all church power needful to be exercised within themselves , whether in election , ordination , or censures of their own body . they may distinguish between the power of the keyes , and between church power . but it suits as little with reason to make two , to wit , elders and brethren , the two first subjects , or one complete first subject of church power , as to make them one complete first subject , or two first subjects of the power of the keys . nor is it against reason , that the body organick be the first virtual subject of the keys , and the same body be the first formal subject of both the keys , and of church-power in the exercise , the rulers acting their way , and the people their way , as is said ; nor are there for that two subjects of power . . the argument by which mr. h. proveth this is most feeble , it is said to peter , to thee i will give the keys , not to the 〈◊〉 ergo , peter represents the people , believers only , 〈◊〉 est , the male-church of the redeemed : i would not buy such logick for a not , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a collective , and represents many , for the keys of the kingdom noteth the keys of jurisdiction , of preaching the word , &c. now see , he gives the keys of knowledge principally and firstly to the people , and secondarily to the elders who labour not in the word and doctrine , in so far as they concur to make the word effectual . nor can the lord have given the key of only ruling to the preaching elders , and therefore he speaks to peter as representing two subjects . . it is neither dagger nor weapon of blood , that the catholick visible church of the first-born including rulers and ruled , be the first subject of free redemption , of all power of the keyes in their saving fruit , of all styles , the spouse , body , love , &c. the saving priviledges of special note , that one promised in the covenant of grace , the new heart , remission of sins , perseverance , ruling in the visible kingdom by binding and loosing , and that your particular congregation and society share of all these at the second hand . and mr. h. must be content that we look upon it as weak divinity , that christ gave himselfe for the catholick church , and bestows all upon her firstly , and that this be the first natural recipient subject of all these , as the element of fire , not this or that fraction or fragment of that element is the first adequate , natural recipient subject of heat , as is above explained . mr. h. prop. . the power of the keys take it in the complete nature thereof , is in the church of believers , as in the first subject , but in the manner and order of ruling that christ appointed , in the parts . ans. mr. h. speaks not distinctly , and should have told us what the power of the keys is in its complete nature , and what in its incomplete and half nature it is . . when he sayes the church-congregational , and the male-church of believers so consederate , is the first subject of the keys , he saith an untruth like to this , this particular fragment of the element of fire is the first subject of heat . and , sir , what say you of the rest of the quarters of the element of fire , must they , i pray you , be the subj●ct of heat secondary , and by way of participation ? so you may say london is the first subject of the power of government in england , yea , or norwich ; now the first subject by you is omne and solum , and so doth mr. cotton go before you ; it is like england would take it evil , and judge that norwich did not logically distinguish . our brethren must be content no congregation is any other but an integral part ( as d. ames . grants ) of the catholick visible church . and christs design of love was , that the whole , by order of nature , as the first subject , should partake of all the speciall priviledges . . grace . . redemption . . covenant blessings , &c. power of binding , loosing , seals in their blessed fruit for the whole . nor can i say amen to that of mr. cotton . a particular church or congregation professing the faith taken indefinitly , for any church ( one as well as another ) is the first subject of all the church officers , with all their spiritual gifts and power — whether it be paul , or apollo , or cephas , all are yours ( speaking of the church of corinth , cor . . ) ans. . mr. cotton must prove that paul there speaks of a particular church that comes all together into one place , as he speaks , citing cor. . . and that formally as a single congregation meeting in one . it were a most comfortless doctrine to limit that soul delighting priviledge , cor. . . all things are yours , then christ , and grace and glory are yours . and vers . . ye are christs , onely to saints , as they are a church-meeting in one place . what is this , but by the scope of that place , you have right to christ and salvation , and covenant-promises , as the first subject only under the reduplication of a congregation meeting in one place , as an organized church . ah! and shall not christ and all things be theirs , who are in no church-state like that of corinth , but wander in deserts , and in mountains , and in dens , and cave● of the earth , heb. . and have no certain dwelling house , nor fixed church congregational , cor. . ? . what agrees to believers , as christians , and believers , to believing women , aged children , servants , and to the scattered saints . now in no such church state , as mr. cotton imagines the corinthians to be in , and to iohn in the isle of pathmes , and to the apostles as believing apostles , that cannot agree to a congregation as the first subject , which reciprocally and only receiveth this power . but such is this , revel . . . he that overcomes shall inherit all things , all are yours , death in the sweet fruit of it belongs to women , and to christians as christians , though in no congregational state ; ergo , women , and the whole catholick church , whether in such a church-state or not , must be the first subject of the keyes . and it is wretched logick ; paul saith , all things are yours , and ye are christs , to a congregation that meets in one place : ergo , such a promise is made to a congregation , as to the first subject , and as to a congregation : then may i infer the promise to eat of the tree of life , to receive the hidden manna , and the ●…ning star , and to sit in a throne with christ , is made to such as overcome in the congregation ( as our brethren say ) of ephesus , of pergamos , of thyatira , &c. rev. . . therefore these promises are made to the church of a congregation , as to the first subject ; upon the same ground all the congregational church must be the first subject , and so the only subject of all priviledges of the congregational church of corinth , of being justified , sanctified , temples of the holy ghost , redeemed and bought with a price , &c. and if so , these priviledges must agree to the congregation firstly , and to all other for the congregation , as that agrees first to the fire , and then to iron , to water for the fire . . paul saying , all are yours , whether paul , &c. he cannot mean paul , as an apostle , is proper to you as a congregation , in all his apostolick travels , for that is false : nor can the meaning be , paul as a fixed pastor is yours , for he was no fixed pastor to them , tyed to that congregation only . then the meaning must be , paul , and by a synechdoche , all the apostles and pastors , and the world , and life and death , in their labours must be for you , and the catholick church , and all the saints all the earth over , whom they must gather in , and perfect as christs body , and parts of his body , ephes. . , , . and not as a congregation ; so our brethren in this as in many other points abuse , but expound not the word . mr. h. the power of the keys is in her ( the church congregational of believers ) as in the cause subordinately under christ , and it may thereby here be acted as potestas judicii , in admission of members , in the absence of ministers , in censuring by admonition , for each man is a iudge of his brother , and there is a judicial way of admonition , when the parties are in such a state as in foro exteriori , they can make process juridicè , against each other , so there is a power of gift in all elections . or else this power of the keys is communicated from her to the officers , the soul doth not see but by an eye , makes an eye and sees by it , so that the church makes a minister , and dispenseth words and sacraments by officers . answ. we seek scripture , and see only mr. h. his naked assertions . . the power of the keys is radically in the church of redeemed ones , to wit , the male-church of redeemed ones , a creature for name and thing , not in the word . . that this male-church by a judicial power admits members , prove that . . in the absence of ministers this is done , then ministers and elders with the male-church excluding women , aged children , judicially admit members , then all female members , and children , and servants with blind obedience must own these members , and watch over them : prove this , for women have neither consent nor vote . . that every one may judicially process another , that is , judicially accuse one another and complain , and bring witnesses against one another , and prove the scandal : that is true , and may judicially accuse before the church the daughters , or servant women , yea , or men that are incorrigible after private admonition , but that the members of the male-church judge one another by the power of the keyes , is the question . give us scripture for it . . there is potestas doni , a power of a gift in all elections , well ; a power of a gift of discerning & trying , who shall be my pastor , sure women have their gift of discerning ; why should pastors be obtruded upon women blindly ? should men have dominion over their faith ? i am glad that mr. h. gives no juridical power to the call and making of officers : but only a power of gift , potestas doni . but the church communicates this power of the keyes to the officers , that is , the male church of redeemed brethren . this is proved by no word of god , but by a similitude , in which it is said ( by poor physiology ) the soul makes an eye , and the brethren make their officers , which we deny : god makes them by the laying on of the hands of the elders , acts . . tim. . . tim. . . tim. . . mr. h. the power of judgement is the church formaliter . ans. it is often said , never proved to be formaliter in your male church . chap. iii. whether mr. hooker his arguments conclude strongly that the people have a power of judging . mr. h. . the power of judgement is in the rulers directively ( as formally in the people ) they out of an office power , leading the whole proceeding therein . ans. i never heard that a chief member , either speaker in parliament , or president in councel , or chair-man in committee , or moderator in assembly , was a place of juridical power , or office over the judicature , or members of the church ; a place of priority of order it is , which one may have to day and want to morrow : for the nature of order requires that one open the assembly , and moderate the meeting : if this be all , the official power that mr. h. gives to officers , is weak , and of no worth : . there is no power , no act of ruling and governing given to the pastors above the brethren . for , . to call an assembly , io●l . is not proper to the officers , the assembly by its intrinsical power from christ , may convene in his name . nor , . to examine members , whether they be apostles or not , by their way cannot be proper to the elders ruling , for it agrees to other members , as wel● as to them . . ordination is , and may be ( according to our brethren ) and creating of officers , though mr. cotton make it peculiar to officers , because of act. . . tim . . as mr. cotton cites ; yet mr. h. saith , the brethren may do it . . it is no act of the key of authority , that the elders open the doors of speech more then that one speak before another , or that elihu speak more then the rest of the friends , is no act of the power of the keyes . nor , . is the preparing of matters , and receiving of complaints , by our brethrens way proper to them then to other officers more , since mr. h. saith all equally have the power of the keys from the church of brethren . what power of the keyes the pastors have in preaching and exhorting , they have it rather over the congregation , then over the male-church of brethren ; nor is it so properly a superiority of rule , as of doctrine , which in synods they have over churches ; nor can the pastor have a directive power as a pastor over the brethren ; since by m. h. his way , they may judg and censure him . can the king be their judg with a directive power , who not being a parliament , may judg authoritatively whether he should be king or not , and may dethrone him ? mr. h. arg. . ejusdem ist instituere & destituere , the people have power to consure and depose officers in case of heresie , or otber iuiquity , for they gave power by election to rulers . ans. it is ordinary to our brethren to prove in a circle , the fraternity have power to chuse officers , ere they have power to depose ; and they have power to censure & excommunicate , he whole being above the part : ergo , they must have power to ordain : we deny the fraternity can either make or unmake officers . . that is not so undeniable a proposition , an assembly of officers , a church of thirty may constitute themselves in a judicature , and so may a parliament , by an intrinsecal power in themselves : ergo , they may for heresie and scandal against the law of nature destroy and censure themselves , it followeth not . . apostles were immediatly called of god , and made pastors habitu , by that call and special direction of the spirit ( which was in stead of election ) paul is forbidden to preach in bithynia , and called to preach in macedonia : how many times should the p●ostles be made pastors , and unpastored again , if the present call be that only which makes them pastors ? levites were ordained to serve the tribes joyntly , and when the tribes were dispersed , the levites were dispersed , and remained levites in whatever place they came to , as mr. hudson sheweth . . if pastors be baptized , and members of the churchonly to which they are chosen pastors , then as to the former part , they and all other baptized to one single congregation , when that church is dissolved , are no more baptized , and as pastors cannot exercise pastoral acts , but to their own church ; neither can they act as baptized professors in another church , baptizing being a citizens solemn incorporation to the church , and by this way to the church independent only : as a man that is only a free citizen in norwich , cannot for that be a free citizen in york , or perform the acts of a free citizen in all free cities in england , as he can perform them in norwich . and suppose that norwich lose its freedom , the man is a citizen of no free city of england : for as he is made solemnly by admittance into the church , into which he is baptized a visible member incorporated by baptism , as by his burges writ , or burges ticket , when the city is dissolved , and no free city , either his burges ticket to be a member of that city is null , or then by his burges ticket he was made a member of all other congregations . iohn baptist and the apostles , act. . ioh. . after a confession never asked for their conversion , but baptized , for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , straightway without delay , even in the night ( for so the word noteth , matth. . . luke . & . . & . . ) the jaylor and his house , act. . cornelius and his house , act. . the eunuch , the multitude of iohn baptists hearers were baptized members of the universal church , cor. . , . where there was no particular congregation to receive , & admit them as members , as mr. richard baxter solidly observes : nor is it worthy the refuting , that the apostles by an extraordinary power might baptize them , though to no certain church , but pastors now have not that power : for the apostles baptizing and preaching , and administring the other seal differ not in species and nature , from the ordinary pastoral acts of an ordinary minister , they speak with tongues , work miracles as apostles ; but they preach and baptize hic & nunc , as ordinary officers . and as to the other part , the calling of a minister so , must be up and down , as he officiates to his own church , he acts as a pastor , as to these of another flock he tenders the lords supper as a gifted man. . though a congregation be of divine right , and paul be assigned to teach the gentiles , peter the circumcision , gal. . by an ordinance of god , yet it follows not , that peter acts not as a pastor , when he baptizes gentiles , or that paul acts not as either , apostle or pastor when he baptizeth the jews , and that paul was ten hundred times a pastor , and again no pastor , as god called him to act pastorally in ten hundred congregations , and went from them ; for the call of gods divine leading where to preach , and where not , in macedonia , not in bithynia , act. . but the local division of congregations and provinces : as the second general councel defines ; and that the provinces that belonged to ephesus were added to constantinople , as socrates saith was from custom . when the bishop of spalato defending the supremacy of the pope , saith , that he thus differs from other bishops , that he is universal bishop of all the churches on earth , but other bishops are pastors of their own particular diocesses and chu-ches . d. ioan. crakanthorp chaplain to king iames wrot a learned book , in which he proves , that all pastors are pastors of the church universal , habitu & actu primo , as well as the bishop of rome , especially because in general councels . and without them , they are to care for all the churches on earth . . that the particular designation of single congregations , is by no divine right assigned by christ ; but by the prudence of the church . . for if it were not so , there could be no transporting of ministers from one church to another . . because churches then could not be enlarged , nor diminished , nor changed , which we see may be done . cyprian as most sound in many things , so in this is to be considered , we are ( saith he ) many pastors , but we feed one flock . we saw how mr. h. was pleased to fall upon me , because i said that every pastor is a pastor to the church-universal , by exhorting in word and writ ; yea , by ruling in councels , and is not tyed as a pastor to employ his labours to one single flock only : we therefore condemn in our brethren ; ( ) that the care pastoral of any church , but of one congregation , of which the man is pastor iure divino , quasi glob● affixus , is perished , since the apostles died . . that they distinguish not between a pastor as he is a pastor to all churches , as the lord in providence shall call , and between the same pastor , as tyed to his single church , rather than to another , by no divine right , but the prudence of the church which is not infallible . . that it is utterly unlawful to transplant pastors upon any necessity of the greater good of the church , against the law of nature . mr. h. arg. it s in the power of the church and fraternity to admit members ; ergo , to cast them out , as appears in the admitting of officers . ans. . observe the circular probation between this and the former argument , as is said . . give us one scripture or jot where the fraternity is either called the redeemed church , for so women are not redeemed , or the governing church , for the officers are not rulers ; or let mr. h. give us a third church . . that the fraternity onely , and no women , gave their tacit consent to the chusing of matthias , act. . of the deacons , act. . of the elders , act. . . since their consciences were concerned , and they are parts of the fed and redeemed church as well as men , can never be proved : and who can deny women to be of the plebs , people and fraternity , as cyprian speaks ? and of the brethren that paul , iames , and the apostles wrote unto ? doth not cyprian divide the church in stantes & la psos ? were there not women that both yielded to the persecutors , and denied the truth , and stood to the truth and suffered ? reade cyprian cited by mr. cotton , and in other places . m. h. arg. either the people have a causal virtue in judging , or onely a consent ; the latter cannot be : to consent to evil is sin ; to dissent from a just sentence , makes them to hinder the execution of a just sentence . ans. this is already answered , and hath not the weight of the some of the water . elders have either a causal virtue in judging , or onely a consent : the former i see not how they have . mr. h. mr. tho : goodwyn , and mr. philip nye , give them onely an authoritative directing power , such as parents have in the marriage of their daughter , which is an authority extrinsecal , which the magistrate and pastor in their kinde have ; but the virgin hath the onely formal and intrinsecal power to consent , and so to make the marriage , and to dissent so as it shall be no marriage : in which case the fraternity onely or male-church formally , intrinsecally judgeth , and may judge , though there were no officers , as the maid may marry , though parents and tutors were dead ; and the directive authority of the officers may be wanting , as the directive authority of the magistrate may be wanting . . the officers cannot consent to a sinful sentence , it s not their duty to sin , nor can they dissent from a just sentence , for then they might hinder the execution of a just sentence , and the officers shall keep communion with a man whom the people excommunicates ; and that the people may erre , is too well known , in the condemning of ieremiah , of christ , and of others , and whereas he saith , the dissenting shall blemish the wisdome of god , it s answered already : it blemishes our folly , but not his wisdome , when people are divided from rulers , and rulers from people . . there is a midst between consenting to an unjust sentence , and a dissenting from a just sentence , to wit , a consenting by the judgement of discretion tacitly to a just sentence , in which there is a causality popular , nor judicial nor juridical , coming from the inherent power of the keyes . mr. h. arg. . it crosseth the rule of righteous proceeding , to understand the church . mat. . of the elders onely : suppose three elders in a church all have been convinced before witnesses in private of an offence ; they will not hear ; the offended brethren must tell the church : that is , they complain to these three elders of these three elders , and make the guilty both judge and party in their own cause . . suppose of these three two be offenders , the grieved party must tell the third , and so one shall be the church . ans. this inconvenience follows clear from the hampering of all power of the keyes within one single congregation , in the midst of six congregations round about . . the book of discipline of new england saith , a church independent may consist of four officers and three brethren , three brethren are offenders , if they cannot in this case tell the elders onely , for they are not the church , mat. . saith mr. hooker ; ergo , the three offending brethren must complain to the three offending brethren , and make themselves both judge and party ; therefore the argument necessitates us to tell the elders of associate churches . mr. h. arg. . if the power of judgement be in rulers , then it is either in some or one , to wit , peter , and to h●m derived from the rest , and that is popery , or it is in them all equally ; for those that are equal in commission , are equal in power , but that is not , for the teaching elders are in degree and also in power superiour to the ruling elder . ans. the issue of this argument is to strip the officers naked of all power of rule , and mr. h. must take it away off his own way , as well as off ours . . the teaching elders are worthy of double honour above the ruling elder , tim. . . for they speak to us the word of the lord , hebrews . . and are the ambassadors of god , who in christs stead beseech us to be reconciled to god , cor. . . their feet are pleasant , because of their message , and in this have power above ruling elders , and those who serve tables , act. . and above the brethren and church , as being sent of god with pastoral power , not onely vi materiae , by vertue of their commands , but as in an epistle is spoken judiciously to this purpose by mr. tho. goodwyn and mr. philip nye , by reason of their ministerial authority . now how they can be equal in commission of judging to the people , is the question : for as the woman is independent in regard of intrinsecal power of consenting or dissenting in point of marriage , the parents directive power of commanding extrinsecal , as the judicious prefacers say , so the fraternity is the onely judging society by them . yea , mr. h. saith , the elders are superiour to the fraternity or brethren ( i would he had said to the sisters also ) in office , rule , act and exercise , and in managing the censures , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , overseers , by hen. . . how are leaders and overseers in the same managing of censures , equal in power , and not above those whom they lead and oversee , yea , to whom they are to yield obedience , as mr. h. cites to that purpose the place heb. . . are parents equal in power who do command the virgin , whose it is to consent to the marriage ? . let the godly reader consider , whether the brethren , though believers , yet ignorant of the mystery of balaams doctrine , and of iezobils teaching , rev. . and of the learning and qualification of pastors , and of the deep and subtile heresies for which pastors must be cast out , are by the word of the lord equal in judicial power , and trying of doctors and pastors , with the rulers , whose office it is to know more of the minde of god , than brethren ? and whether are they by divine institution so ? mr. h. if rulers alone have power to excommunicate by mat. . then may three elders excommunicate or brethren ; and if so , rulers should not onely censure the fraternity , but destroy themselves : for where no flock is , but all are excommunicated , there are no shepherds . besides , as ames . saith , a body cannot be cast out of it self . ans. . observe in all these six arguments , there is not one jot of scripture , but the one magna charta of mat. . where yet mr. h. will not stand to the signification of the word church . they are not there alone to excommunicate the church of believers , without the consent of the church ; and we judge it no way of christ to excommunicate not onely , but six thousands , who all made one congregation of ierusalem , say our brethren : but mr. cotton saith well in the case of the defection of a congregation to blasphemy and persecution , and no help by a synod is to be hoped for , the elders may withdraw , and separate disciples from them , and carry away the ordinances with them , and denounce judgement against them . . d. ames . whose name is savoury in the church of christ , saith , but if a church should be excommunicated , then a body having and retaining its essence , should be cast out of it self . no judge can properly punish himself , but the presbytery and synod may declare a synagogue of satan to be a synagogue of satan . . it is against the meekness of christ , and not warranted by any scriptures , that faithful pastors that are pastors to the universal church should be unpastored , because this or that particular flock to which they were sent , leave off to be the flock of christ , that is as much , as because they are faithful in his house , christ will have them cast out of his house . the argument will conclude , that the church excommunicating all the officers , destroyeth it self . of this before also . chap. iv. mr. ruthurfurd's arguments that prove that the people are not the first subject of the keyes , are vindicated from the unsatisfying answers of mr. hooker . mr. h. that is not to be held , that is neither in scripture directly , nor by consequence : but that belivers lay hands on men for the ministery , or receive witness , or have in them any such power of government , is such . so mr. r. &c. ans. the first three arguments touch not the question , for office-power is formally in some select persons , who have a ministerial spirit and gifts . mr. robinson saith , the government before and under the law , and in the apostles time , and still now , is not in the multitude , but in some chief men : but it follows not because office-power , which is a little part of the power of the keyes , is in officers , therefore the power of the keyes is firstly in the officers , but firstly in them who gave both the power and the office , and therefore had a power before they gave it , and therefore can take it away . ans. mr. h. hath quickly expeded my arguments with veni , vidi , vici ; it is a scorn to say , without all proof , that the office-power is a little part of the power of the keys : for the includent by no logick is a part of the thing included , the city is not a part of the house which is a part of the city ; but the contrary : now the office-power in rulers includes preaching , administrating of the seals , as mr. h. grants , and also it includes a power of binding and loosing , and of ordaining , since the holy ghost gives rules of right ordaining of elders to timothy , and to teachers , tim. . , , , & . tim. . , , . tim. . . tit. . , , , &c. as to pastors , not as to believers , and by this to rebuke , censure , shall be no ruling at all , if mr. h. deny ruling power to agree to pastors as pastors , or to be a part of office-power , because ruling power in officers is common to both officers and brethren . . he begs what is in question , for the brethren are ruled and to obey , and not rulers . . if it be said ruling power is not office-power ; it s replied that mr. h. saith that the elders are superiour to the brethren or male-church in regard of office , rule , act and exercise . now if ruling be common to both officers , and the brethren , or such a male-church of the redeemed ; then are not the officers as officers superiour to this church in rule ; yea , this church giveth power , and taketh away the power of governing by way of censure , from the officers : and so the brethren in ruling must be above the officers , as for the superiority official in preciding and managing the actual dispensing of censures , as mr. h violently alledges heb. . . to this purpose , it is a ruling over the ruling of the brethren , the like whereof was never heard , the mouth of a judicature ordereth , but judgeth not the ruling , and judging of the judges . again , if officers be both officers in teaching , administrating the seals , watching over the manners of the people , and also in dispensing censures with the elders , then must office-power take up and include both official acts , and also judicial acts and power in governing ; ergo , the power of office is not a part of the power of the keys , but the whole power of the keys . . it is not to the purpose , to say that government is not in the multitude , as in the first subject ; for then the multitude and church of redeemed , that meets in the same place , for all the ordinances is not the instituted church , to which the offended must complain by mat. . nor is it the first subject of the keys . expound to us then matth. t●ll the church , i. e. tell some select persons , the church of some males , only excluding women , aged children , servants : alas that is not the church mat. . nor the new england instituted church , which is defined to us in the first words of their book of discipline ; for that is not a church of selected persons , but includes men , women , servants , children of age , as i demonstrate from their words . . the church which christ in his gospel hath instituted , to which he hath committed the keys of his kingdom , the power of binding and loosing , the tables and seals of the covenant , the officers and censures of his church , the administration of all his publique worship and ordinances , is costus fidelium , a company of believers ? these are their words . but i assume some select brethren only is no church . . to whom word and sacraments onely are due . . such only are not such a church as the church of corinth , justified , sanctified . . such only is not the company that meets in the same place to partake of all ordinances , as they teach ; for women , aged children , servants were justified , sanctified , partakers of ordinances , as well as select brethren : ergo , the visible church instituted by christ , is not the first subject of the power of the keys , except you mean the virtual subject , then it is not the first formal subject , as fire is of heat , nor is the complete virtual subject . but mr. h. saith cap. . sect . . page . the power of the keyes is committed to the church of confederate believers , as the first and the proper subject thereof . pro. . page . that the power of the keyes is seated in the church as the proper subject is no novel opinion . ●b . we will suffer years to speak a little in this place , the place of those that peter sustained in mat. . to them the keys were given . but peter speaks in the name and sustained the place of the church : as the antients , origen , hillary , augustine , frequently — troops of our divines say . ans. i pray our brethren , do the fathers mean the church of visible saints , the multitude of believers ? or go our divines in troops along with them in the formal , first and proper subject of the keys , as fire is the first formal subject of heat . as mr. h. page . now i judge mr. h. means his own only instituted visible church in the new testament , that meets together in one place for the ordinances ; if i should say the whole element of fire is the first proper and formal subject of heat , and yet exclude four quarters or parts of this body , as utterly uncapable of heat , were i worthy to be called a philosopher ? but the same way mr. h. maketh the church confessing as peter , mat. . such a formal subject , and saith the fourth part of this subject , women , children of age , &c. are not capable of the keys ; if it be said , the organical body is the proper subject of seeing , of hearing , &c. yet neither legs nor hands are capable of either seeing or hearing . i answer : then . the organical body is not the first and formal subject of seeing , but arms and legs are capable of touching ; but women , aged children , servants , though essential parts of the visibly confessing church , mat. . are formally capable of no power , of no exercise of the keyes at all . . if god give the power of seeing to the eye , as to such a watching member , then gives he not the power of seeing to the organical body ; but if god give the power of seeing to the eye , as to a member and part of the body : ergo , he gives the power of seeing to all the members , quod convenit , qua tale , convenit omnibus ; ergo , he must give the power of watchers to women who are members . mr. h. office-power is but a little part of the power of the keys , and therefore it may be in officers , and yet the power of the keyes not be firstly in them , but in them who gave office-power . ans. this is , as if one would say , the power of a master-houshold and of a steward , is a part and a little part of the power of the keys of a family ; when these only under the lord of the house have the keys committed to them , shew in all oeconomies in state , a family where the keyes are committed to any but to those in office , and such as are subject of the power of the keyes , a part and a little part of the power of the keys , is not the key , the nible of a key is not the key . yes , but it may be said , the queen and mistress of the royal family is above the officers of the royal house , since they are her servants , no less then the kings servants . ans. the officers are the believers servants objectively and finaliter , for the building of their souls , eph. . . but the question now is , whether they be subjectively sent potestate missionis , by ordination , and laying on of hands ( the ceremony to me is oeconomy not to be despised , but for the thing it selfe i contend ) of elders , or people , and in an official power of the keys to shut or open heaven , either by preaching , seals or discipline ; there is not any above the officers , not the church of believers in an authoritative way ; as for a way of christian dignity , believers are , without all doubt , above all the officers on earth . and when the mistress is a society of sinners , that she hath the power of the keys in any authoritative way , over her selfe , or any other way committed to her , but by a whole consent , or godly withdrawing when the rulers turn wolves , is against scripture and all reason . mr. h. not only the officers , but offices also are included in the keys , as being of that ministerial power by which heaven is opened and shut ; and officers and offices are ordinances , and christs gift to the church , eph. . . he gave some to be pastors , &c. as mr. k. with chrysostom acknowledge . ans. to say the officers and the offices are included in the keys , is to say ●eedless , that both the stewards and the office of steward included in the power of the keys ; or the king himselfe , and the royal office are included in the royal power : what sense or rather non-sense is here ? it s true , the office and officers , ephes. . , . are given to the church of men , women , children , servants , to the multitude of red●emed , for the perfecting of the saints , for edifying of the body of christ , vers . . finaliter and objective , even till the coming of christ ; but mr. h. must prove by that text ( i doubt if he can , or any for him ) that offices and officers are given to the church subjectively , that is , not to the multitude , but to some select persons , the male-church of the fraternity ; that this new power may shuffle the power of the keys from her , to some officers . but , . who gives our brother leave to leap from one signification of the church catholick of the visible saints to the new male church ? . from the gift given objectively for the church , as clear it is in the text , to the church subjective of his owne devising . . why contends mr. h. for the accidents , or gifts , or priviledges of nothing , or a non 〈◊〉 , for in old or new testament he cannot give us a redeemed church of onely believing males . mr. r. the offices that include both the power of the keys , and and the exercise of them are given , mat. . to some select persons , to peter . ans. therefore they must be given to some that are not officers , for how unpleasant is the sense to thee who bearest the place and person of an office , i will give an office , thou that hast an office , to thee will i give an office . ans. this quirk ( for an objection it is not worthy the light ) is not against me , but against the scripture , and beza , bullenger , pareus , calvin , and all the fathers , who say there is promised to peter who now was an apostle confined , as yet to iudea , the power of the keys as an apostle all the world over , and in him to all the officers . as when a prince gives a confirmation of the office of sheriff with larger priviledges , then he had before . he saith , i give to thee who bearest the place and person of an officer , and magistrate , that same magistracy with more ample priviledges . and doth not mr h. speak as unpleasantly ? i create thee peter , who wast a visible saint before , now a visible saint . beside that he ties so the apostles to be fixed members of one single congregation , which he knew their apostolick office could never permit them with a good conscience to discharge . mr. h. arg. . this complete power of binding and loosing is given to the officer : firstly , either as teaching , or as ruling in a special work or as officers ruling in general ; if the first , then the power must be given to teachers only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as mr. r. and so only teacher , shall be rulers . if this power be given to them as rulers , in regard of the common or general nature of ruling , then is their equal power of ruling in both teachers and elders . ans. the k●yes are given , non uni divi●… , sed unitati conjuncti●● , to all in the colledge of the judicature . the ruling elders vote , if according to the rule , is of as much weight as the teaching elders vote ; and it is not absurd , but necessary that all be alike here , except mr. h. hold a sort of episcopacy of rulers over rulers in the same judicature . this conceit ( for there is no solidity of reason here ) might prove that the king and parliament , the general and councel of war , the major and the aldermen are not the first subject formal ( for of the virtual subject we speak not ) of their respective military power , or civil state powers . yea , the pastor as a labourer in the word and doctrine , is in honour and power above the ruling elder ; the king and general acting severally , are above their general councels . a child in logick may answer such arguments . mr. h. if the faithful may not lay on hands , nor receive witnesses , as paul , titus , timothy , then are they not the first subject of the power of the keys . ans. the consequence is false , for ruling elders cannot so lay on hands , nor so receive witnesses as teaching elders do , yet they have the power of the keys . ans. the argument is not mine , in that place . i neither call the organick church the subject , nor the first subject ; but only say , since the world was , the people are never key-bearers , nor so called ; the presbytery layes on hands , tim. . . the apostles , act , . . timothy a pastor , tim . . for to bear the keys is borrowed from a steward , oeconomus ; as all agree , both fathers and latter divines . as to bind and loose is borrowed from such as command g●ols , as pareus observeth , ps. . , . kings . . ps . . act . . but no official power nor act of office , as of a steward or jaylor is given to the people . and it is like much logick i have here met with ; the ruling elders cannot so lay on hands , and so receive witnesses as the teaching elders ; ergo , teaching and ruling elders for all that may well be the first subject of the keys ; my meaning is , they lay not on hands so , that is , by any pastoral teaching power . but as for the people , they bear not the keys at all over themselves , nor are they in any sort stewards to feed themselves ; and therefore they are no more the subject of the keys then private servants of the house , to exercise the keys authoritatively : the ethiopian is not white at all , ergo , he is not so white as a raven . mr. h. to whomsoever christ giveth the keys , to them he gives a ministerial spirit by way of special embassage to remit or retain sin . ans. this is unsound , for the keys are given to ruling elders , who have no such ministerial spirit ; it is not enough to say , that power of preaching is not formally given to ruling elders ; yet it is effective given in the fruit to them , as mr. r. saith : for they who receive the same commission , or equal power of the same commission , must receive the power of the keys formally . ans. the keys in a ministerial way of special embassage , to remit and retain sins , are given to teachers by a concional way of remitting and retaining sins , and to both teachers and ruling elders effectually ( saith mr. r , ) in the judicial and authoritative application in the external court of christs church : but believers as believers , and as visible saints confederate , have no such power judiciall formally , or effectively . let mr. h. prove this , and it shall be seen there it sticks , hic haeret ei aqua : nor is it denied , but ruling elders have the same power of the keys formally , as touching the judicial application of the word preached in the external court : for the whole court , teachers and elders , do formally , in a judicial way , apply to the conscience of the incestuous corinthian his sin , thus ; thou by name hast committed incest , we , by the formal power and ministerial spirit given to us by christ , deliver thee to satan , &c. all have alike formal and effective , and so causal influence in this sentence . . i also thus frame the argument : to whatsoever society christ hath given the keys , to some of that society he hath given the spirit to remit and to retain sin by way of concional preaching the gospel , iohn . , . matth. . . mark . , . for there is a binding and loosing chiefly in the preached word , and to all of them he hath given a formal power of binding and loosing in the court of christ , conjoyned with the former binding , and not to be separated from it . give us in the word excommunication separated from the preaching of the word . but christ hath given no power judicial of this kinde to excommunicate all the officers , to ordain all the officers , to the society of brethren destitute of pastors . and give us leave to keep this ground of vantage , we can produce scripture for this practise , that the elders laid on hands , and ordained elders , act. . . tim. . . & . . tim. . . tit. . . let our brethren shew , where the male-church of onely unofficed brethren did the like , and give precept or promise , and we are silent . we may justly ask , by what power unofficed men may make officers ; there must be an institution for this , and its hard to prove positive institutions by far off consequences . mr. h. ruling elders do not effectually ( he should say effectively , as i do , which is a far other term ) apply the word in the external court : why ? because the application of the word thus dispensed , implies that it is issued and ended . ans. if the meaning be , the sermon is closed and done , and the incestuous man repents not , therefore all place for judicial application of the word to the conscience of the scandalous man in the court of discipline , is ended : how weak and watery is such a consequence ? except we say that the whole court of teachers and elders do not apply medicinally to the man in the externall court the word preached ; which to say , were to destroy all church-discipline . mr. h. there is a iudicial power in making application of the word preached by any of the members who have power to admonish judicially . ans. that is to beg the question : for none have power to admonish judicially as the church , but the officers , and those that are stewards , who bear the keyes ; otherwise women have power to apply the word , and to rebuke , and to exhort . . this contradicts the former just now spoken . the elders cannot effectively apply in the court the word preached ; why ? the word dispensed and preached is ended : but here every member may judicially apply out of the court , though the word dispensed be ended . mr. h. mr. r. arg. . the government of the church is complete in officers , their number , their dispensed censures of binding and loosing without any power of the keyes in the people , and therefore it is superfluous ; yea , if the believers have power there alone to excommunicate all the officers , as mr. h. saith , the elders in governing must be as superfluous as the sixth finger in the hand . ans. though the people have power of judging , yet they have not power of office , which is necessary . ans. power of office is necessary to the preaching of the word , and to the administrating of the seals , of which we now speak not . i hope mr. h. questions not the necessity of a standing ministery to the end ; but since officers are created , and all the officers may be excommunicated by the onely brethren , as mr h. saith , contrary to mr. cotton and the word ( now ordaining of pastors , and excommunicating of them are the highest acts of rule ) then the elders are as superfluous as the sixth finger to the hand , in the highest point of ruling , and officers must be onely necessary ad bene ess● , for the better directing and managing of censures , as mr. h. saith , onely for authoritative ordering and counselling ; as mr. goodwyn and mr. nye : but they may be wanting , and censures well administred without officers . m. h. mr. r. arg. . the multitude of believers must have this power either from heaven or from men ; if from heaven , either from the law of nature , or a positive law of god. ans. there is a positive institution , mat. . mat. . mr. r. saith , god hath not made all rulers , and have left none over other in the lord. ans. to have the power of the keyes is one thing , and to be rulers another . the court of aldermen can proceed against a delinquent major , yet not one of them is major . the members by covenant , not as officers and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , censure one ano●her , though in the manner of dispensing the censure , they need of ficers as guides . and so the seven●h is answered . ans. mr. h. grapples with my arguments by two's , but answers them all with a begging of the conclusion . it s good that these two onely places , which are sometimes expounded of the church of believers meeting in one place for the ordinances , and that includes all saints visible male and female , as your discipline ; sometimes mr. h. expounds matth. . the church , firstly , as it is an integral body of both people and elders ; and . mr. h. takes it for the church of the redeemed , and offends that mr. rall and mr. r. takes mat. . for the governing church . now . here the magna charta of the word church from mat. . & . must not onely he the male-church of selected brethren ; so doth the sick man love to change his bed . now ted the church , must be , tell the male-church , mat. . which is built on a rock , against which the gates of hell shall not prevail ; as if there were no fixedness on the rock for women , aged children , and believing servants , but they must all turn apostates , and onely the male-church , mat. . persevere in grace , and dwell finally upon the rock . . to have the keyes , and to be rulers , are so one thing to us , as twice three and six are one thing . and it s a wide mockery to say , that members covenanting are to submit to one another ; and , in a church-way , judge one another , by rebuking , exhorting and gaining one another , and yet are not made rulers and key-bearers to one another ; that is , they exercise the keyes and power of ruling over one another , and yet they rule not one another 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this is to distinguish between isaac and the son of abraham . . do not women covenant to gain the younger women in their way , by rebuking , by mat. . . lov. . . sam. . , , . tit. . , . both men and women ? and do they for that rule , as the male-church ? and by what oracle ? am i not to rebuke a trespassing offender of another congregation dwelling within twenty cubits to my door , and being my beloved brother in christ ? are not the brethren both rulers and ruled , both the stewards using the keyes , and members of the house , both shepherds and flock ; and what sense can that have ? obey them that are over you in the lord , &c. thess. . . heb. . . except it be a speech to onely women , and children , and servants , whereas he wrices to all , and directs such exhortations to all , except to officers , in the judgment of all divines whoever before our brethren so expounded scripture ; yea , he should have said , obey one another , for ye are all over one another in the lord. . the comparison of major and aldermen halts , except mr. h. say , the citizens have power of ruling authoritatively over , and to depose from office both major and aldermen , if delinquents . mr. h. there is a peculiar office-power in the officers that is not in the flock . ans. in order to preaching there is , but in order to juridical ruling there is none at all ; and so the eighth argument stands untouched . mr. h. the and arg. of mr. r. if the power of the keys be given to believers as believers under that reduplication , then all believing men and women and children have authority over the congregation , for à quatenus ad omne valet consequentia , and all should be pastors . ans. it s strange that mr. r. so often acknowledges , that we require onely charitable saintship in members , yet he frequently supposeth that we require sincerity : . the believers as believers scattered , are not the first subject , but as covenanting and fitly capable , and counted so ; which women are not . ans. to this i before answered : nor is it strange that i should charge real contradictions , which by good consequence follow , upon my adversaries repugnant principles . . the question is now , what is the first subject of the power of the keys ? but whether the place mat. . proves ( as mr. h. saith ) that the first subject is not believers as believers , but believers with three limitations . . as visible to judicious charity . . as covenanting church-wise . . as capable to rule , excluding women and children : but all the three are forgedly added to the text , mat. . the first is added ; for peter in this confession represents not saints as visibly to mens account , but real saints . for , . christ pronounces peter , and all that confess truly and really ( though visibly , for these are not here supposed ) christ to be the son of the living god , really and truly blessed , as peter , whose heart the lord saw . but peter is not blessed , nor all whom he represents blessed , by mr. h. his way , and by his wresting of the text onely in a visible way , as iudas , who might give the same consession with other rotten hypocrites , and not be blessed , but cursed . . all who give this confession , as peter , have received the spirit of revelation from the father , wh●ch is neither visible nor audible , but is as the hidden manna , known to the man himself , and to god onely . . all that so confessed , are really upon the matter differenced from all the false religions and sects , of which , some said christ was iohn baptist ; some , that he was elias , &c. as is clear otherwayes , if christ speak of a visible confession , which magus and other church members like him may give ; the so confessors were no more blessed , than the wretched herodians , who said christ was iohn the baptist risen from the dead , and denied him to be the son of the living god. . the so visible confessors are the church , whom christ builds on the rock , that shall prevail against all temptations of hell , and be saved , but such are the really and eternally saved onely , not the so built on the rock , as iudas and magus were , and therefore that is but sand , not a rock , which is given to believers in charity combined , and who are counted fit by christ and capable , which women , children , deaf and dumb are not . so mr. h. doth make the text or our saviour say , i charitably judge peter , and judas , and magus are blessed , are built upon the rock . . the other two limitations are as blasphemous , and contrary to the scope of the text : for our saviours scope is to furnish solid consolations of sound faith not to peter onely , not to seeming believers onely , not to church-members onely as such , but to all persons who renounce false religions , such as heredians were , and others , v. , . men and women , mary magdalen and others , who by this very scripture do really , and with the reality of saving faith , from the spirit of the father of christ , confess jesus to be the living god , as v. , . and i appeal to the consciences of our brethren ( i say not any thing to those that are asleep in the lord ) whether magdalen and others should in sincerity confess , that christ is the son of the living god , and had received the anointing , and had received no keyes , no visible membership like to what they say , may not as well claim to this place and blessedness as peter . and if christ should answer them , ye women , who by the spirit of the father of christ confess me to be the son of the living god , and for that suffer death from herod and other persecutors , are blessed ; but ye have no right to real blessing by mat. . , , , &c. for i count you women not capable of the keys . o what perverting of the word of god is this ! surely mr. smith in his parallels hath more reason for him to prove that women share of the honour of the keyes as well as men , from mat . and mat . but of this hereafter . shew me a place in all the scripture where christ saith , i give the keys to the church of redeemed ones . . shew me where in scripture the blessing of real and sincere confession of christ from the teaching spirit of revelation , and ano●nting , is hampered and confined to male-believers , and to male-believers onely , members by marriage-covenant of one single congregation . sure the brethren fail here , as the popists , who retrench it to the onely church of their pope and clergy . mr. h. the rule of mr. r. faileth much against the fundamentals of logick , quod convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet visible saints and believers accounted according to the rules of charity , are the subject matter of the church , and therefore though they be justly excommunicated , yet in gods account they may be inwardly saints . and again , close hypocrites , as judas , may be real unbelievers , and therefore the profession is sufficient to keep such in their office , and to evidence that all their actions ministerial are valid . ans. as mr. r. hath , following aristotle , expounded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that which agrees as the ultimate specifick form , or as a proper passion , agrees to the subject reciprocally ; as rationale 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , resibile , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 homini , see the medi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 above expounded : but make fundamental or superstructure logick of these two , except the logick of contradiction , and i am silent . mr. h. survey , cap. . pro. . p. . subordinate power ( of the keys ) onely such , and all such have , ( a perfect reciprocation ) who are combined in a special corporation , and come under the external government of the scepter of christ in the gospel . if women , servants , aged children be excluded , they being combined in a special corporation , and under the ●xtern l government of the scepter of christ , judge , reader ; and yet believers as believers ( saith mr. h. survey , cap. . pag. , . ) are not the first subject of the keys , but believers , as . combined by church-covenant : . as counted in charity believers : . and counted capable men , not women . any man remove that contradiction . . i ask , if profession be enough ( according to our brethrens way ) to evidence the ministerial actions , baptizing , &c. for example , of iudas , to be valid , why saith not mr. h. profession is enough to render their ministerial actions to be valid , but onely to evidence that they are valid ? if profession do onely evidence them to be valid , they may be , in se , in themselves null and invalid . what is under this , i know not : if mr. h. his sense be , that iudas was blessed , and had a spirit of revelation to teach him to give peters confession , and upon this account of a profession though rotten , yea to christs charity apparently fair , yet christ for his seeming confession gave the keys to peter as to iudas . if mr. h. would cause the text speak this , mat. . he should gain much upon me : but no wit of men , but our brethrens , shall throw this out of the text. what a poor comfort is it , this profession keeps peter in office ? yea , it makes him blessed above men . chap. v. the rest of mr. r. his arguments proving that the male-church of onely unofficed brethren have no power of the keyes , are delivered from the unsatisfying replies of mr. t. h. mr. h. the arg. of mr. r. if christ give the keys to believers , he gives answerable gifts to them . ans. such as have received the anointing , can discern the voice of christ and follow him , are able to choose to themselves pastors , as being able to relish the savour of spiritual administrations , and to feel what key will best open their lock , can see and discern what courses be sinful and scandalous , persons obstinate and pertinacious therein , therefore they may choose and reject officers — they need not the tongue of the learned , they are reproved for careless watching , in not purging out the incestuous man , cor. . , . ans. . my argument is mangled . and whereas i , with the word , say , if the male-church be rulers , watchmen , the onely men appointed to rule , make and unmake officers , i demand . if the epistles to timothy and titus be canons to the brethren of the male-church that they must rule well , tim. . . rule their own house well , be apt to ●each , tim. . . whether unofficed brethren must be such rulers as are to commit the word to faithful men , able to teach others . . whether the endowments that are required in bishops , tim. . , . tit. , , , . . whether the count that watchmen , who must stand and feed , and not sleep , nor let the flock perish , ezek. . chap. . isaiah . zech. . lie upon unofficed brethren ? . whether the crime of usurping be theirs , and not the prophets , ierem. . and yet they are the onely feeders , rulers , judges of all to the highest censure of excommunication . but all the qualifications that mr. h. gives to the male unofficed judges are saving grace of anointing , ioh. . . . which women , who have christ for their advocate as well as men , ioh. . , . the discerning of the voice of christ , and following him , which all the sheep and elect of god have , ioh. . , . except women , aged children , servants , be excluded out of the number of the sheep of christ , this is a turning of the gospel upside down , to popishly confine all the priviledges of saints , the anointing the spiritual disce●ning what key will open the heart , to some few male-believers : . aged ; . incorporate , so and so . but i retort it thus : to whom christ hath given the onely qualifications spiritual of rulers endued with power of judging , those hath he called according to the rule of the gospel to be such rulers , and they must dig their lords talents in the earth , if they improve them not for that end . but the lord hath given to all beleevers as beleevers of the same or of another flock , whether in churches this way , or not , to women , as to males , in some measure , the anointing grace to know christs voice . ergo. . let it be observed , that the tongue of the learned , esay . of which mr. r. spoke , to absolve and open heaven to a man swallowed up with griefe , and a gift of a son of thunder , to shut the gates of heaven against the obstinate , and such as are to be delivered to sathan , are not required in the exercise of the keys of the kingdome , but onely such gifts as are in women ; is this a good frame of church discipline ? mr. h. god gives to men no calling to a place , but he gives rules how they are to order and direct themselves in it . but the word hath no canons how the people should order the keyes . answ. matth. . . if thy brother , &c. the lord points his finger to the fescu● , and says , build up one another in the most holy faith , thess. . , , . thess. . . heb . . rom. . . observe those that cause dissentions among you , &c. ans. my argument is mistaken . if there be rules in the word how officers should acquit themselves , tim. . , , &c. how judges , kings , &c. so ought there to be rules how unofficed brethren , the onely judges , ( for church-officers do but order and regulate judging , as our brethren say ) should behave themselves . but this is not by our brethrens way . . the reader may observe all along , that mr. h. and his way lays the ax to the root of the ministery ; for he ascribeth the church acts of office , of opening and shutting heaven , of the learned tongue , of excommunicating , &c. to unofficed men ; or then he denies that there is any necessity of such in judging , and ascribes such acts and qualifications as are in women , to their judging church ; the very way of anabaptists and rigid separatists . . mat. . . shall make every church-member , brother or sister , who are to gain by admonishing one another , a church-judge , to exercise the keyes one over another . i thought the power had been given , not uni sed unitati , to brethren in the judicature , not to stones scattered . the edifying one of another , and comforting one another , and withdrawing from dividers , are acts of love required of men , women , and of christians of all ranks , and by no word tied to those of the same single congregation , but to all the catholick church ; should not women withdraw from dividers ? and therefore these places , thess. . . thess. . rom. . are abused . . ambrose , theophylact , oecumenius , paraphrastes , beza , calvin , marlorat , nor any interpreter dreamed the place heb. . . was meant of unofficed brethren , who watch and must give an account for souls : yea , mr. h. expounds it of officers , and yet he cites heb. . . obey them that are over you in the lord , i. e. brethren of the male-church obey brethren . mr. h the prwer of the keys is larger then the power of office , and therefore the lord requires not so much abilities in the brethren as in the officers . ans. the difference is said , not proved . . if god require the highest abilities in officers to the laying on of hands , tim. . . to the highest censurer , tim. . , . compared with tim. . , , &c. tim. . . , &c. then he must require these same far more in brethren , the first and proper subject of all power , or then the lord calls them to highest actings , and promises to them no gift to , or for these highest actings , such as delivering to satan , cutting off of members . mr. h. the keys are given to peter , as representing church guides , matth. . not excluding the consent of the people . ans. we so give the power radically and fi●stly to the church of believers , as by them we communicate office power to the elders , though they be not the first subject . ans. such a shifting of office-power from the church of believers , which yet is but the third part of the redeemed single church to elders , if christ teach , matth. . or elsewhere , we rest . mr. h. if the keys be given to the church , the house of wisdom , prov. . . of god , tim. . . heb. . . builded by pastors , teachers , ephes. . , then not the church of believers without pastors . mr. h. the assumption fails , for a church without pastors is wisdoms house , as we proved , and is act. . . ans. mr. h. answers nothing to the places , pro. . wisdom hath maids and a table ; the house in which timothy was to walk , was built by officers , act. . . tim. . , , . tim. , give us a pattern of your homogeneal church , for clear it is the church act. . . was the church of believers , no politick ministerial church until paul and barnabas with the free election of the people , made them a politick church : so until titus ordained elders , the churches of creet , bear the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cities , and though these cities were churches , yet could they exercise no politick actions , nor frame organs official to themselves , until the first founder made them politick ministerial churches . otherwise , as paul and barnabas exhorted them to continue in the faith , so they should have commanded them to use that radical power , to create officers and not have encroached upon their power of the keys . mr. h. paul charging the elders to feed the flock , or the church , acts . implyeth there is a church distinct from feeders . ans. no doubt , there is a flock of redeemed and fed ones of men , women , children , pet. . . iam. . . act. . . that were of late catechised , gal. . . different from watchmen , but paul bids the feeders censure the grievous wolves , v. , . but he bids not the fed church do it , far less implyes he , that the third part of the redeemed was the male-church , and did , or could exercise discipline over both officers , and women , servants , and children . let us see that implyed . mr. h. if they want officers ( saith mr. r. ) they want the power of edifying . ans. they want the power of edifying , as an organick body , but it hath power to ed●fie it selfe , as totum essentiale . ans. christian edifying one of another in divers congregations , thes. . . col. . . heb. . . by women and children of age we deny not , but a church edifying without pastors , or a perfecting of the body without officers , eph. . , . cor. . , , & . cor. . , . we find not . ( ) your male-church edifying without pastors , must also edifie as an organical body . in it women and children be silent , and some unofficed brother teach , pray , and preside in the creating of officers , and do the like , when the officers turn grievous wolves , and are to be cast out , for then some unofficed brother must be mouth and organ to the rest , and that is the very charge that peter sustained in pastoral preaching , at the creating of an officer , and the apostle matthias , act. . . mr. h. let mr. r. tell how god set teachers in the church , if teachers be before the church . ans. let mr. h. tell how god giveth breath to them that walk on the earth , isa. . . was there breath before there was a living man walking on the earth , or was there a living man walking on the earth , before there was breathing ? teachers are before converts , as fathers are before children . iohn baptist and the apostles were before such as they converted to the faith and baptized . noah before the vineyard , which he dressed , god planted apostles and teachers , even in the organical politick church , before it was a politick organical church ; for by setting organs in the body , he made it an organical body ; but it is a senseless inference , ergo , these organs , who are both organs and fathers , and causes procreant of the church , had no being before the politick church had being ; for natural organs in a physical body are only organs , but not causes of the natural body , but politick organs may be both , and in this case are both . mr. h. to these are the keys promised , who are stewards of the mysteries of god , cor. . . servants of his house , cor. . . ans. the servants are pastors and teachers in these places , then the ruling elder shall bear no key . ans. yet the conclusion is strong against the unofficed bearers . mr. cotton & the new england discipline and paul are herein as much crossed as i am ; for to them the ruling elders are stewards applying in censures in the external court of christ , the word , as the teachers apply it concionally . mr. cotton makes the ruling elders to be included with the teachers of ephesus , act. . and by the argument mr. h. may deny office-power of overseeing the house , to all , but to such as labour in the word and doctrine . mr. h. the places , isa. . . revel . . . speak of monarchical power in christ onely , and prove not the point of delegated power . ans. nor did i bring them for any other end , but to prove that the keys whoever bear them , head or servants , do signifie a power of office , steward , oeconomus , commander of the castle , and so are never given to unofficed brethren , for which cause i brought fathers , doctors , divines , protestants , learned papists , saying the same . and mr. h. passes them all without an answer . so the learned pag●in , mercerus , shiml●rus , buxtorf . ark of noah , mr. leigh , and all dictionaries expound the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when given to house , prison , gaol , kingdom ; and stephanus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and mr. h. dictates against the authority of all the learned interpreters and linguists , and tells us bes●de an office power , it noteth , matth. . a judicial power of the spouse and wife to admit unto , or reject out , in the family as cause requires . but . one word of scripture he gives not . . nor saith christ , matth. . any such thing , as he gives the keyes to the church upon the rock , as the formal subject , though it may be gathered , he gives them for that church as the object and final cause . mr. h. to these mat. . doth christ give the keyes , to whom be giveth warrant and official authority , for actual exercising of opening and shutting ; but this he giveth to peter , as representing teach●rs and elders : to thee will i give , &c. whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth , &c. so mr. r. ans. all may be granted , and the official authority may be formally in the officers , and originally and virtually in the church . . the proposition is fall● , to wit , to them the power of the keyes is given , firstly , to whom warrant and official authoritie is given for the exercise of the same keyes ; for the power of the keyes is larger then office-power . ans. . my argument is yet wronged , to the same person to whom he promiseth the power , or keyes , or the power in its essence , actu primo , to the same person he promiseth shall exercise the specifick acts of the power and the second acts , that must be the first formal subject to which god pro●iseth a ●…sonable soul , and the second and specifick acts of disco●rsing , and that must be essentially a man : now unofficed brethren are not embassadors , but they are onely these , to whom the embassadors and officers are sent . . by mr. h. the ●eyes must in their official power begiven to peter , as representing the guides , ●nd also the power of the keyes , in the power of ruling must be given to peter , as to the first subject representing believers : if the text speak this , it is a new conceit , that never an interpreter dreamed of , and it must be made out , that peter i● spoken of in the text , in that ●●ofold relation ; but that peters binding and loosing on earth are acts of office , or at least include ●cts of office , and acts both of concional and also juridical remitting and retaining of sin , and who despiseth peter and the officers in either , despiseth christ and him that sent him , is clear , and that remitting and retaining sins is a binding and loosing , cannot be denied , and that remitting and retaining of sin flows from christ calling the disciples to an office , is as clear , iohn . . as my father apostled me , so send i you , receive the holy ghost , whose sins ye pardon , they are pardoned , &c. and that this is a clear commission to peter and all officers in him to exercise an official power of binding and loosing , is apparent by this text , if by any in the new testament . but mr. h. against this clear text saith , here pastors have good warrant for their office power , because the church hath received power to admit , chuse and refuse officers , &c. but because mr. r said they have clear commission for the keys , both in power , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in the acts and exercises , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and what thou shalt bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven ; but , though the place be clear , and all interpreters teach it , yet will not mr h. grant that by mat. . 〈◊〉 peter and other church-officers , christ gives both the power of the keys , or the keyes and the exercise of the power , v. . i will give to thee the keyes — and whomsoever thou shalt bind , &c. and if mr. h. say not this , he shall be forced to say that these , to wit , the power of the keys , and actual exercise of the keys , which are clearly holden forth , v. . are given to peter , so confessing christ , that is , as he represents all believers so confessing christ. and so all such must have both the keyes and the formal exercise of pastoral binding ; for that pastoral binding is given to peter , v. . and brethren and women so confessing , must pastorally bind , v. . then how can an official power be given to peter , as he represents this male-church upon a meer allegiance ? as to the place , matth. . . it abundantly warrants the disciples to an office-power . but the question yet remains , whether this place , matth. . especially doth not warrant more clearly , pastors as pastors to both the power and exercise of the power of the keys : and by this , to thee will i give the keys , must yet have this sense , i will give the keyes to thee peter , as representing both the pastors and believers of the male professors only . yet peter gave not that blessed confession as an apostle , but as a believer enlightned by the spirit of the father abo●e flesh and blood ; nor was peter as an apostle builded upon the rock , and above the prevailing temptations of satan and hell , except we hold from this place , the popes infallibility ; but it is good that it is granted , that by this place , the keyes must be given to peter , as representing the officers also : for here ( saith mr. h. ) pastors may have good warrant for their office power . then is the thing we contend for granted , if m. h. would prove the other , that here the male church excluding women hath good warrant , as the first and proper subject to challenge the power and exercise of the keys here spoken of , matth. . he had indeed performed a great point . but this remains that the reader is left in the mist what to make of our brethrens way by these words , upon this rock will i build my church , and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it . nor is it fair arguing to flee to the old testament , saith judicious mr. firmin , because the children of israel , numb . . . layed hands upon the levites : for what if one say , moses the magistrate layed on hands ? . if it be a good warrant where officers are , as in the place were aarons sons , yet the people only , and not the presbytery , though there be a sufficient one , must lay on hands . . aanon , as mr. firmin noteth , verse . completed the ordination ; for he did wave those levites before the lord. . how is it proved that moses gathered the whole people , numb . . . thou shalt gather the whole assembly , the whole church : and they shall offer them in sacrifice ( saith vatablus ) and by that ( saith menochius ) who collects from r. stephanus , vatablus , and others ) they did not author it atively ordain the levites , but gave over to the lord and his service , the levites , deut. . . gather to me all the elders , v. . and moses spake into the ears of the congregation . rehal , iunius , di●dati , english divines , they consented to the call of the levites . cyrillus , alexandrinus , and cyprian , tertullian , as leo magnus also say , the people chused , or the levites were called , they being then present . so beda , lyranus , iunius , piscator , ainsworth , say a part of the people laid on hands on the levites . cajetan and lorinus , the princes of the tribes , in place of the people , layed on hands and consented , quia offerens ( saith lyra ) deb●bat ponere manum super oblationem suam . so diodati , they imitate such as offered by laying on the hand on the oblation . now mr. h. his binding & loosing comprehend . eth all acts of church-power not only by publick preaching ( for so the ruling elder should have no key ) but also by excommunication and admission , admonitions which issue from judging power , as we proved . ans. that is said gratis , admonition and consent to receive in , and cast out members by cansent , necessarily agree to women , it so much concerning their dayly practices and conscience , and they have no judicial power . . by no scripture can mr. h. prove that admonition of brethren is church-binding and loosing , and that it is limitted to one congregation . nor can a single flock bind a member of the catholick church , or a sojourning visible saint to church ▪ judging in one single congregation ; nor is there one jot in scripture to tye the brother , mat. . . if thy brother tr●spss , &c. to a brother member of that onely congregation , of which the plaintiff is a member . . i said that binding and loosing are words of official authority undue to unofficed brethren , at the scripture saith . see the margin , ier. . , &c. above . mr. h. the promise is made to peter , because of his consession in name of the believers . ans. the text saith no such thing , but because of his consession . . he , and all men and women , who so sincerely confess , are blessed , because really regenerate ; flesh and blood hath not revealed that , &c. v. . . because of this confession , a promise of perseverance is made to the whole catholick church invisible , then the way how to fulfil this promise is set down , i will make this invisible church visible , and i will give the keys of word and censures to thee peter , and to all the called pastors , &c. for the churches salvation of men and women , that they may be kept invincible upon the rock . mr. h. grants , that the keyes are given to believers who may be hypocrites . ans. adde , and to them as the first formal subject : this is before refuted . but it is asked , why brethren believing and as so incorporated , should be made the first subject of the keys by this text , and not also the first subject of the love of election and redemption , by which they are built on the rock , and made impregnable against the gates of hell ; for the one is said of the church here , and not one word that he will give the keys to the church . as also mr. h. granteth , that christ speaks not to peter as representing all believers , but onely the disciples and male-believers : but whom say ye that i am ( ye disciples ? ) ans. it s true , he propounds the question to the disciples onely , but saith he that hence onely men and unofficed brethren of a single congregation who give such a sincere confession , are blessed , and built on the rock ? so he saith , matth. . , . to the disciples onely , to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of god , to them it is not given : are there then none the elect of god , men or women , to whom the grace of saving faith is given , but onely the disciples ? so luke . . ye are they that have continued with me in my temptations : v. . and i appoint unto you a kingdom . then to the disciples and men , not to women who suffer with christ , there is a kingdom appointed . upon this account , all the promises and consolations of sending the comforter , of the many mansions in his fathers house , which he was to prepare for them , do belong to the disciples , as brethren , and as a male-church of a single flock without officers , not chosen women , aged children that believe : and therefore these words of mr. h. that christ sp●…s not to all believers in the person of peter , blessed are ye , for flesh and blood , &c. most injuriously bereave all women , all men , that are not members by covenant of this male-congregation , of all the promises of the gospel , and comforts which christ uttered to his disciples onely . not to say what before i said , that . this is contrary to the scope of the text. and . contrary to the peace , . comfort , . joy , . blessedness in the state of regeneration , . faith of their perseveran●● , and . victory over temptations , from the gates of hell ; of all , who contrary to sects and heresies , and sundamental errours touching christ his nature , offices and dignity , sincerely believe , and confess that he is the messiah the son of god , be they women , aged children , servants , sincere visible saints of another congregation , or sojourning saints . mr. h. if believers ( saith mr. r. ) 〈◊〉 giving peters confession , and built upon the rock christ , be made a ministerial church , then the official power of binding and loosing should be made as fi●m and sure from defection , as the church of believers built on the rock . ans. the assumption is denied , for the church to whom the keys are firstly given , though they have a virtual power to call men to office , yet they have not formally official power ; nor is official power , which in great apostasies may fail , of like stability with the visible church , which can never totally fail . ans. my argument is not faithfully repeated ( of which i often complain ) if the ministerial formal power of ruling , and creating and unmaking of officers ( a virtual power of which he of new speaks , i know not , for who hath the formal power of calling officers then ? ) be given to believers , though destitute of pastors , because believers are in a congregational frame built upon the rock , nothing hindreth but ministerial power , that is the power of the keys given to believers , which is but a gift given to hypocrites often , should be as firm as though believers were built on a rock . mr. h denieth the assumption onely , and seems to yield the proposition . i appeal to the reader , if these words , i will build my church ( in the frame of a congregation independent ) upon the rock christ , of the confession of peter , have any such sense ; for in all scripture the building upon the rock hath no such sense , but noteth christs building of real believers on himself in the most holy faith , which building cannot sail . and whereas mr. h. saith , the visible church cannot totally fail , as our divines say , they mean the catholick visible church , and not your independent congregations , of which they knew nothing who teach this doctrine . so this argument of mine stands . promises of never falling are made in scripture to things , not to persons , as to the kingdome , to the gospel , to the dominion of christ , psal. . . isa. . . luke . . isa. . . psal. . . mat. . , &c. but ever in order to persons , especially to that excellentest of persons : but of temptations to offices , and institutions and promises to such , as here , we reade not . mr. h. those to whom ( saith mr. r. ) christ giveth the keyes , do represent the person of christ , and who despiseth them , despiseth christ , and who honour them , honour christ , mat. . . now scripture never saith so of believers , they that hear and obey believers , hear and obey me . ans. the proposition is false , to represent christ as stewards , belongs onely to them who have office power ; but the spouse had power in the family before the stewards and officers were . ans. . yet that must be meant of believers , men and women , he that despiseth the preaching male church , despiseth me . . the forgiving or loosing from excommunication , as well as preaching the gospel , cor. . . and excommunication it self , which is given to unofficed brethren by mr. h. is done , cor. . . in the name , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , therefore they who despise the unofficed brethren excommunicating , despise christ ; and excommunicating of heretick pastors , or judicial rejecting there cannot be , except unofficed brethren publickly rebuke , tim. . . and in the name of christ judicially declare the man an heretick , and the doctrine heresie , tit. . . . the comparison that makes every male . church a spouse of christ , and so multiplies spouses and bodies of christ ; whereas the scripture makes but one visible spouse on earth , cant , . & . . . & . , . eph. . , . one body , cor. , . eph. . . col. . . will not furnish an argument . for , . a spouse without stewards may feed ; may therefore unofficed brethren preach , and tender the seals , as socinians say they may baptize one another ? . a spouse may create servants of her own devising ; so may not unofficed brethren do . . the scripture makes the catholick church christs spouse by faith ; what word of god warrants every male-society to be a spouse of christ by a new devised oath or covenant ? and our brethren cannot give us a scripture , where the male congregation excluding women is called the spouse , body of christ built upon the rock , &c. mr. h. those to whom the keys are given ( saith mr. r. ) do authoritatively forgive and retain sins : the fraternity ( saith mr. h. ) forgives judicially , cor. . the officers authoritatively . ans. brethren and sisters forgive by way of charity , the officers authoritatively . a judicial forgiving distinct from both in a male-church , is the question begged by mr. h. not proved . . he supposeth paul writeth to this male-church void of pastors ; whereas there were many pastors there , cor. . , , . & . . & . . . nor could they without officers celebrate the lords supper , as they did , cor. 〈◊〉 frequently . . he supposes they onely were judicially to forgive the incestuous man ; whereas all in their own way , men and women , were to forgive him , and to converse with him as a brother , cor. , . as is said before . chap. vi. what church it is that is built on the rock , mat. . whether the visible or invisible church , the catholick or the single independent church . before i examine mr. h. his reasons , take notice of what mr. h. saith , which may conduce to this : the keys and power ( saith mr. h. ) must be given to a single society , i. e. to a sort and condition of men under some special relation , to thee will i give , &c. as to a single society , not to them . ans. that the keys must be given to a single ; that is , according to mr. h. his sense , to a single independent congregation onely , that they may exercise jurisdiction onely within themselves , and that all others , though as free churches as it , are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without is never proved by mr. h. nor gives he ●s a pattern of such a church independent in jurisdiction . . his argument , because it is said , to thee , as a single society , not to them , is naught : did not the lord give , in peter , the keys to the twelve apostles , and to six or ten sundry societies in ierusalem ? but they were one church ; so the combined elders in a presbytery is but one single society : yea but saith he , they are many churches . ans. they are , and may be but four societies meeting in four sundry places , and scarce all eight hundred , and therefore a more single society than eight thousand and above , which mr. h. saith made but one congregational church of ierusalem : and is not the society of a synod provincial or national , one single society also by this account ? . let the reader judge how our brethren use the word church , as kid leather stretching it in and out at their pleasure , as it serves best for their turn , for here the single society capable of the keys , is a new male church of redeemed ones . also consider but the first proposition . . these words , the instituted church of christ in the gospel , to which christ hath comm●tted the keys , the power of binding and loosing , the seals , officers , are most ambiguously set down , and can hardly bear truth either in a passive or an active sense : for its false that the keys passively are not committed to women , for they must be bound and loosed , and have the seals and tables of the covenant , as well as men . . in an active sense , its false , that to women , understanding children , the dispensing of censures , seals and tables are committed . . the power of the keys are not committed to the church instituted , as to the proper subject , but onely by those pious authors , to a limb or wing of it , the male redeemed are never called , the instituted church of the new testament . . and how the seals are given to the male ▪ church as to the subject , when they want pastors , i see not : the tables and seals are given to men and women redeemed , as the end and object for their salvation and edification . . so they are given to pastors , doctors , elders , deacons , to all visible saints , but in the intention of god , to all rulers and ruled , men and women , not as meer visible professors ( for god intends no such thing to a meer magus , to whom agrees the complete essence of a visible member ) but as invisible and chosen ones . . nor is it either didactick or suitable to a systeme of church-policy , that the administration of all christs publick worship and ordinances , is committed to a company of believers , for the active administration of baptism and the lords supper , and of the preached word , is not committed to unofficed brethren , or to women , who are members of this instituted church of the gospel ; otherwise in a passive sense all are to partake of the worship and ordinances , according as their capacity is : but how the male-church void of pastors can receive them , i know not . . i say not much , that it s not grammar to say that this church is a communion of saints : a community it is , which word is in our language a concrete . . that its a combination of saints meeting for that end ( to partake of the ordinances ) by common and joynt consent into one congregation , is ut erly unsound ; for as this is a delineation of a new testament church-assembly , to pa●take of the ordinances , so it makes it contrary to the institution of a church under the gospel , to members of another congregation to meet , to partake of pastoral preaching or seals in a church , whereto they never gave common and joynt consent , as never being inchurched members thereof ; yea , and all of another congregation by this reason hear the word in that forreign congregation , not as visible saints , but as pagans , and such as are without . and it s as strongly concludent against hearing in another congregation than their own , as against church-rebukes , and ( as our brethren teach ) church judging , and admonishing between brother and brother : for as there is indeed a providential necessity of partaking of pastoral preaching and seals in another congregation than the members own ; so is there the same soul-necessity of the like rebuking and gaining of a brother , mat. . . if the trespass be committed in another congregation , and be private as yet , as if it were done in the offenders own congregation , except it can be proved that from mat. . christs minde is , if a brother of another congregation fall in a pit to the hazard of his salvation , i should let him perish there , i am not his keeper as touching any church-remedy for gaining , according to mat. . which sure we cannot do to our enemies ox , if he fall in a pit ; yea , and there is as great , if not a greater necessity , to use the remedy of rebuking , mat. . to gain him when he falls in a spiritual ditch in another congregation , as to preach pastorally , and to tender the lords supper to him in another congregation , and as the bread in the lords supper ( say our brethren with mr cot. ) is one bread , and a seal of our communion with the lord iesus ; but also of our communion with his members not only of our own church , but of all the churches of the saints : so we are to gain our brethren by admonition , teaching rebuking , by matth. not only as they are members of the single independent body congregational , but of the whole catholick body , cor. . . for whether one member suff●r , all the members suffer with it , or one member be honoured , all the members rejo●c● with it . and rom . , . compared with verse . for there is one body ( visible ) one spirit , one lord , one faith , one baptism , one god and father of all , eph. . . and one body catholick , into which all are baptized , jewes and gentiles , cor . , . . it is false that there is no church which christ in his gospel hath instituted — but a particular visible church , that meets in one place all of them : for christ hath sanctified and clensed with the washing of water by the word , a catholick church , which he shall present as a glorious church , without spot or wrinkle , eph. . , , . and perfected body ( visible ) when we all meet in the unity of faith , eph . , , . . that this instituted church is to meet together all of them , even the whole church for the administration of the holy ordinances of god , to publick edification , cor. . . is a manifest debarring of infants born within the visible church , from being members of that church , which christ in his gospel hath instituted , &c. for they are neither capable of convening in one place every lords day , nor of publick edification by prophecying , as is meant . cor. . . cited by them . how they defend infant-baptism , who make them incomplete and unconfirmed members , let them see ; the learned , pious , and grave assembly at westminster provided better , that particular visible churches members of the general church were made up of visible saints , viz. of such as being of aged professed faith in christ , and obed●ence to christ , according to the rule of faith and life , taught by christ , and his apostles , and of their children , act. . , . act. . v ▪ ult . compared with act. . , &c. there is not one word of infants in this large discription of instituted churches of the gospel , and to it , in all , the anabaptists subscribe , yea , the seven churches have , upon the matter the same description of the visible church , without one word of infants . mr. h. that church is here , matth. . meant , which is built upon the rock christ , by the visible confession of peter , as explicated immediately before ; but the invisible church is not built by a visible profession , such as peters was . the second part of the assumption is clear by the opposition between visibility and invisibility . the proposition is proved by the meaning of the words , thou hast made a confession of my selfe a rock , and therefore are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and upon my self so confessed , will i build my church . ans. the proposition is not true in his sense , the assumption most false , the conclusion both untrue and unjustly exprest : for the visible single congregation is not here meant , and i will build my church congregational , in its frame , upon the rock by this confession . except mr. h. the place had no author , no divine , or any other for this sense , so destructive to the text . therfore there hath been some trepidation of mind upon the pious man. after many thoughts ( saith he ) floating in my mind , what might be the meaning of our saviour , &c. and after many thoughts , he could not find a way to answer mr. r. his arguments , but by a popish exposition , for b●llarm . lib. . de eccles. c. . brings this place to prove that the visible church shall never fall away . so the jesuites of rhemes , tim. . . cites the same place . d. fulk answers , every true christian is builded on the same rock , which is christ. so cornel. à l●p . matth. . the visible church cannot erre : to the proposition mr. h. yeelded . that the church to whom the keyes are given , may receive the keyes by the intervening of an hypocritical confession , or profession of christ , such as is in judas and magus . so the proposition is false , to wit , that church is here meant which is built upon the rock christ , by the visible confession of peter so explicated ; for it is explicated to be a visible confession . . sometimes true , sometimes hypocritical . . sometimes it is expounded to be the confession onely of the male-church , excluding women . of the male believers of a single church void of pastors : while the world stands , such a visible confession as may be false , and lying is no means of christ to build the church of men and women so upon the rock christ , as they shal persevere in saving saith ; so as the gates of hell , and the temptations of the world , the devil and the flesh shall never prevail against them . the only internal and effectual way of building men upon the rock , is the sincere real believing on christ , coming from the revelation of the father of christ , mat. . . and the external building upon the rock , is by the preached gospel ; this is also popish , for by a lying profession none are builded upon the rock christ. the scripture makes being builded upon the rock , all one with being builded upon god , the rock of salvation . so the door of the word is the house built upon the rock , matth. . . the spouse is the dove that dwells in the clifts in the rock , in the secret places of the stairs , cant. . . for which see the interpreters in the margin : the believing ephesians are by saith built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets , as lively stones , christ being the chief corner stone , and made the habitation of god , not through visible profession , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the spirit , eph. . , . . it may make any to tremble , to see pious men do such violence to the word , for he tells us this or that particular congregation may fall away , but the universal congregation , or church , existing in the particular churches falls not away . orthodox divines , and mr. r. grants that the visible church doth not fall . the just contrary is taught by our divines , that the catholick church shall never fall away ; but there was a time when elias complained , he only was left ; the council of selencia and arminium condemned the nicene faith : hieronymus , as also hila●ius complain , that the arrian heresie had overspread all the world , and that mountains , woods , lakes and prisons , in which the prophets mourned , were more safe then the towns . bellar. valentia , stapleton , azorius , say the church is ever visible , as a city on a mountain , d. fulk answers the jesuites of rhemes , calvin , willet , and ours say , that the catholick church all the world over can never totally fail , because they are by faith builded upon the rock , but that the frame of a particul●r congregation independent , is a building upon the rock christ , never man dreamed ▪ and that the gates of hell cannot prevail against the visible frame of a single congregation , is wild divinity . . calvin , swinglius , bucer , marlorat , pareus on this place , perkins de praedestinatione , d. twisse extend this to all believers , of whom ( saith calvin ) singuli sunt dei templa , every one is the temple of god. now it is clear , that the building on the rock , signifieth the building of persons in the faith , not of the society , as a visible society and frame external : hence all who are builded on the rock christ by a firme faith , do trust in god , and can say , sam. . . neither is there any rock like our god , and so every single man so built , may say , god is my rock , psal. . . it is often a title of god himself ( saith ainswer t ) psal. . . blessed be my rock , psal. . . deut. . , , , . psal. . . psal. . . ps. . . . he only is my rock and my salvation , the rock of israel , sam. . . now how ordinary is it , that god is the rock of his saints ? and insolent and dry when mr. h. must say , my god is the rock of this institution of a single independent frame ? and whereas persons are set upon a rock , that this new institution is builded upon the rock by the hand of christ ; and whereas persons are tempted by the ports of hell , but being upon their rock they are kept , to say institutions are tempted , but being upon their rock , they are kept , is new and insolent divinity . if it be said , the persons are built by christ in this church-frame of independency , they believing and professing sincerity , it is almost the same . for then . the persons in the very frame are kept in the frame , so that the ports of hell shall not demolish the visible frame , they sincerely believing ; but since the promise is made to all that sincerely adhere to their profession , and fulfil the condition , shall all such godly incorporations , as by persecution and malice of satan , and the ports or strength of hell are dissolved , and all godly and visible saints , who by banishment , exile , or violent death , are pulled away from visible membership , be thrown off the rock christ ? and doth the gates of hell prevail against such believers ? if it be said , yet in a spiritual sense , such are eminently and satisfyingly made members of a more glorious society , even of the church triumphant , as the promise of the fifth command , eph. . of long life is fulfilled to an obedient gracious son , who dies young ; and so here : i am sure it will not be found , especially in the new testament , that the lord tyes a promise spiritual of perseverance in grace , and deliverance from the prevailing temptations of hell to any single visible church-frame . but . the building on the rock , and deliverance from the prevailing temptations of hell , by this exposition is made by the grant of mr. h. to the visible profession that may be in iudas and magus ; and is it to be believed that christ promiseth with his own hand to build upon the rock magus and iudas , who are as essentially stones of the building , and whose acts of the keyes are a● valid as these of sincere believers , so as the gates of hell shall never prevail against these sons of perdition ? so mr. h. expounds it . ● many martyrs faithfully perform congregational duties , yet doth not christ make good this promise , for when members are dissolved by banishment , they are thrown off the rock . that which by our saviour is set down , as contrary to their comfortable union with , and building upon christ their rock , is being foiled with the temptations of satan and hell , and being thrown off the rock , like the hypocrite , matth. . who is the house builded on the sand , for the strength of a war city , as calvin noteth , and pareus , were in iron gates and bars , psal. . . deut. . . and so by this interpretation the lords dissolving of a church , which often is a work of mercy , and putting of his children to an honourable condition of martyrdom , and glorifying of god by suffering and scattering of his church , as acts . . must be a throwing them off the rock christ , and a prevailing of the ports of hell against them : contrary to the scope and intent of christ in the text. . it is a most uncomfortable doctrine , that men and women builded on the rock christ , and chosen to salvation , have only right , by this so expounded text , to union with christ their rock , and victory over the gates of hell , in so far as they are inchurched covenant wayes into such an independent corporation ; when the saints builded upon the rock , and persevering by the grace of god , contrary to all the machinations of hell , may be scattered , pet. . . wander in the mountains and desarts , heb. . . and have no certain dwelling house , cor. . . and sojourning visible saints , and be not so much as visible members , and it is cruelty to say such are no members of christs visible body , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without , and not builded on the rock . . mr. h. grants a man may give petors confession , par . . c. . page . and men may be scattered stones , visible saints , and yet through some opinion concerning the visible church , be members of no such congregation ; are they for that not builded upon the rock ? and mr. h. brings this interpretation . salve ●●liore judici● , by stress of argument . . as to the minor ; but the invisible church is not built by a visible profession upon the rock , as peter was . it is most false ; for there is a twofold invisibility , and twofold visibility . . such as in the election of god only , and are not called yet , are invisible , as saul persecuting ; such indeed are not actually built upon the rock by visible profession , as peter was . but . peter and all sincerely professing christ , as peter and the other ten are both the invisible church , in so far as sincerity of faith , and love is only in the heart , and known infallibly to none , but to god , and to the man himself , who hath received the white stone , the new name , rev. . . and also they all such are , and may be built by the same visible confession of peter , real and sincere ( for of a sincere visible and audible confession only as real and saving our saviour speaks , mat. . as mr. r. holds ) upon the rock . i grant there may be degrees of real sincerity , more or less in men and women , but the same in nature , & sp●●io , that is in peter is in women , by which they are built upon the rock , and so they are invisible members in the latter sense , and are also built visibly & really upon the rock , by peters faith coming out in a real visible confession , and the invisible church in this sense is also the true real visible church ; and a visible confession or profession , is either real , or hypocritical and seeming , that it is real of which the text speaks mr. r. proves , because from it christ pronounces peter really blessed . . because it was taught peter by the father of christ , and not by flesh and blood ; mr. h. contend● that it may be seeming only . i desire he or any for him , may prove it was seeming only , or may be seeming only ; yea , it was exclusive of iudas the traitor his confession , for he knew nothing of the revelation of the father , nor was he blessed as peter , nor is it our saviours purpose to praise and commend hypocrisie , mat. . and therefore there is not truth in that which m. h. saith , that there is a contrari●ty or opposition between visibility and invisibility . so expounded , the opposition is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as aristotle and ramus both require ; and therefore it is granted , that the house of god , tim. . . in which timothy was to behave himself right , was the visible church of eph●sus , and the other church presbyterial ; but that this cannot consist with invisibility is most false , it destroyes the ministry & faithful apostles and pastors calling , who are sent to gather into christ all the invisible members of christs mystical body , and to make them visible professors . and whereas he sayes , that this direction of paul to timothy ; was to continue to all succeeding officers to the end , and that in all particular charges given to them , is truth seen through a cloud . . this direction in these epistles was to continue to all succeeding officers ; ergo , the laying on of hands , and ordaining watchmen and bishops ; and this direction appointing elders , faithful men able to teach , and the rest belonging to the keyes must b● g●ven to officers , not to the male church . . here is some succession of godly pastors to the end , to all pastors and elders with such qualifications , as a bishop must be blameless , &c. tim. . deacons must be such , &c. the direction is giv●n to all succeeding officers to the end : why not rather to the first proper subject of the keyes to the male-church ? . that tim. . . the house of god is the pillar and ground of truth , and the body of christ ; for the perfecting and edifying whereof , eph. . . christ gave apostles , evangelists , pastors and doctors , . . is the single particular independent church ( salvo m●liori judicio saith mr. h. in his conjectural modesty ) is contrary to all scripture ; and this is the very church builded upon the rock , against which the gates of hell shall not prevail ; and upon this account hearken to mr. h. his distinction . mr. r. propounded an argument never yet answered to prove that the church builded upon the rock cannot be the single visible congregation , against papists & socinians , and our brethren . that church is here mat. . understood , against which the gates of hell shall never prevail ; but against the visible independent congregationall ( the seven churches of asia now are fallen away ) church , the gates of hell hath prevailed . ans. this or that particular church or congregation may fall away ; but there must be a church universal existing in its particulars , this or that church , which christ will have while the world continues , eph. . . d. ames . medulla l. . c. . . ans. to begin with what amesius saith , it s utterly impertinent : the title of that chapter is of the mystical church , the members of which can never fall away , but must be until the end of the world , as the title of the next chapter is of the instituted church ; yea , am●sius saith , this place matth. . is a special promise made to those built on a rock , to the militant catholick church , and to real believers onely , not to hypocrites . mr. h. by this teacheth the patrons of the apostasie of the saints , a distinction useful for their errour . so cinus saith , the places which saith , they are saved who are written in the book of life before the world was , do not speak of some particular man th●● or that , ( as mr. h. this or that single church may fall off the rock ) but some kinde of men , and therefore mr. h. renders this a comfortless doctrine , which christ makes a singular bulwark of faith and consolation to single persons , peter , mary , who believe , and are built upon the rock , that such shall never fall away ; but this or that congregation of some few persons , though true and real believers , may and do fall away . this is the down-right apostasie of believers . . this strongly savours of the jesuit ruiz . his necessitas vaga ( though mr. h. hate doctrine and way , when his sharp engine sees them ) when a thing is necessarily to fall out , in , upon , or about the kinde of men , but not in , or upon this single man ; as it is infallible and necessary that there be war and be peace , and that there be husbandmen and be sailers , but god determines and bows the heart of no single man to be a husbandman rather than a sailer ; he might say to be a king rather than a poor beggar . this kinde of necessity is against the providence of gods special care , as to great things , as to kingdoms , dan. . . so to all smaller things , the stirring of a sparrows wing , mat. . , & . the hair of the head , the growing and withering of a gourd , ionah . . the motion of a worm eating the gourd ; which confused providence , suarez , cumel , ledesma , forsake as shameful . . the particular independent congregation is either built upon the rock unmoveably , by a promise of the gospel , as no divine can deny , that the grace of perseverance ( if such a grace , as it must be , be granted , for by nature men persevere not ) is given by a gospel-promise , or by no promise . but men persevere without any gospel-promise , as the sea ebbes , the wind blows , which yet cannot be said , if a promise there be , then when this particular church falls away . now mr. h. grants the apostasie of this or that particular church of ephesus from the rock , and the prevailing of the gates of hell against the single man or independent church of ephesus : for he saith , the place mat. . the gates of h●ll shall not prevail , &c. is to be meant of the church congregational existing it its universal nature in its particular congregations , then he must mean , that some one single congregation of ephesus or s●… , may and do fall off the rock , which is a clear apostasie of the saints : for it cannot be said this or that single church shall fall away so , being they pray and watch . for , . that is the very thing which the arminians and socinians say on this place , that the church mat. . . remaining and persevering a true church , remains unconquered by death and condemnation . . praying , and persevering in praying , and watching thereunto , ephes. . is a great part of persevering ; and so persevering is promised upon condition of persevering : and therefore mr. h. must betake himself to a more unthrifty shift , and quit the place mat. and so gratifie arminians and socinians , who say , that it proves not the perseverance of the saints ; and so must say , that the building of the church upon the rock is the lords continuate act of forming single societies upon the rock christ , giving them victory over hell. so that he miscarries and ●●lls from his intended end , in keeping this or that single man or church upon the rock , but yet obtains his principal end in keeping the universal nature of man , and of an independent church upon the rock . a more confused providence than ever pelagius or any devised , and a singular gratifying of jesuits and sociniam . . if the keeping of believers 〈◊〉 saints upon the rock christ , so that the gates of 〈◊〉 shall 〈◊〉 prevail to throw them off the rock , and put those that once were justified , and by faith built upon the rock christ , in a state of condemnation , be referred to the de●rce of god , then must god have made the same general confused de●r●● , that some by saving faith built upon the rock christ shall persevere , and some shall not persevere ; but yet so , as god hath decr●●d a visible single independent church one or many there shall be , until all be gathered in to meet in the unity of the faith . but . this is a decree confused and general , so as the number of the saved and kept upon the rock , shall be indeterminate in the decree of god , whatever it be in the prescience of god : but he who hath numbred in his decree drops of water , rain , and dew , the blasts of wind , the stars by their names , isa. . . prov. . . psal. . . iob . , , , , . & . , , &c. must in his decree have fixed all the churches , and all church-members , men and women , old and young , who shall be kept on the rock , and preserved by the power of god , through faith , unto salvation , pet. . , ▪ tim. . . . what popish trepidation and trembling of conscience must it breed , that such as once were built upon the rock , may be thrown off , and the gates of hell prevail against them ? but some in the general nature of independent churches shall abide upon the rock against all the strength of hell , until the second coming of christ. but whether this can be a gospel-comfort or not , that christ builds the universal nature of independent churches upon the rock ; but though i be built upon it , whether i shall be thrown off it or no , i have no assurance from the promise , mat. . . . if this or this individual congregation be built upon the rock , so as they cannot fall away , as christ promises , mat. . then all congregations must also continue upon the rock , for a promise of perseverance made to all in christ , must be su●e to all that seed , and to all single congregations of that kinde , if david , solomon , and all single persons justified may fall away , then may all the justified fall away , nothing can be said in the contrary , but that the society may leave off to be a church , but it follows not that they fall from the state of justification . ans. that is , they fall from church membership onely , but remain believers . ans. nay , they fall from the rock christ , and the gates of hell prevail against them ; and so by mat. . must fall from saving grace . but it were cruelty to say , that such as are scattered and broken out of membership by persecutors , and that for righteousness , that such were fallen off the rock christ , and that the gates of hell did prevail against them . . all built upon the rock are to believe their own perseverance , it being a promise of the covenant of grace , ior. . . & . , . isa. . . & . . mat. . , and so to believe , they being once built upon the rock christ , they shall never fall away , as the promise is , psal. . , , , hos. . . ioh. . . ioh. . . psal. . . ioh. . . . promises of perseverance and of saving grace , as being built on the rock , are made to the seed indeed , psal. . , . sam. . . isa. . . but never in the universal generick nature to a visible society , but to single persons and individual men , ioh. . . ioh. . , . ior. . , . the abstracted nature is not capable of the love of election , of free redemption , that is made to single persons . . so shall the number of the chosen and saved not be wri●ten , but unsure and dubious . lib . iv. chap. i. the congragation in its abstract nature is not the first subject of the keyes . mr. h. pag. . th● key ▪ as we have heard , is a power delegated from christ to disponse and administer the holy things of his house . ans. why then give you the dispensing of the holy things of god , given to aaron and his sons , and the keeping of the charge of the lord , and the judging of his house , and the keeping of his counts , given to the high-priest ioshua , and , in his person , prophecied to the given to the officers of the new testament , zech. . . to any unofficed men ? and whether doth not the lord prophecy in the new temple builtunder the messiah , ezek . ( for it s neither the first nor second temple spo●… of 〈◊〉 ) that new testament-levites ( no question not the unofficed brethren ) should keep the charge of the lords holy things , and should be porters to keep the doors of the lords sanctuary , to hold out the uncircumcised in heart and fl●sh , v. , , , . as paul saith , cor. . . are all apostles ? are all prophets ? are all teachers ? are all new testament-levites ? mr. h. what is meant by the catholick and visible church , i cannot know by mr. r. sometimes he seems to cast the catholick visible church upon the general nature of a congregation . ans. it but seems so , and to onely mr. h. to no living man else . mr. h. to what principal subject hath the lord ( saith mr. r. ) given reason , and the faculty of discoursing ? is it to peter or john ? no , it s for and to the race of mankinde , lib. . p. . ans. ergo , god hath given the keyes to and for a single congregation of or visible saints ; that is none of my logick : but , ergo , to the catholick guides all of them , as to the first and formal subject , and to the catholick visible church , as for the principal end and adequate object . here is plain enough expression , cor. . , god hath placed in the church first apostles , &c. sure the lord never meant to place apostles , whose flock was all nations , mat. . , . as fixed members and pastors of your independent flock of , which is no more countable for their doings to any on earth but to christ onely , in a juridical way , than the pope . mr. h. sometime mr. r. his expressions seem to intimate an o●cumonick councel , or a representative catholick church , sometime a catholick visible , as it is totum integrale , of an integral nature . ans. both these , with protestant divines , i own ; the one , as the first subject , whether convened in a synod , or scattered , i shall , god willing , declare ; the other as the object and the end of the keys . mr. h. we say a congregation of visible saints covenanting to walk in the ordinances of the gospel is the prime and original subject of the power of the keys ; we understand it not of this or that individual congregation , as though they onely had it , and none but they , and they had it firstly , and all of them ; but because its a congregation of such . this is our saviours meaning , mat. . i will build my church , taking a visible congregation of visible covenanting believers , as that which is a pattern and samplar ( as i may so speak ) which leaves an impression upon all the particulars , as common to all , and is preserved in all . ans. if the church congregational as congregational , not as this or that congregation , be built on the rock , then this or that congregation must of necessity be also built on the rock . if man as man be rational , then so are all individual men , peter , iohn , anna ; if the congregational church as such , be built on the rock , then this or that congregation , &c. must be built on the rock . quod conveni● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , convenit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . but this presently mr. h. recals , this or that visible church may , doth , and will fail . but this or that visible congregation partakes of the common nature of a congregational church ; and what reason this church more than this should fall off the rock , since the promise is made to the congregation in its common nature ? then of necessity the church must have the promise upon some other account than as the congregation in its common nature . mr. h. each particular congregation is complete and independent for the exercise of all acts and dispensations belonging to a congregation or church , without any reference to any other congregation , because they are distinct species , which firstly and equally participate of the nature of the genus , or the general nature of the church . ans. . then are there no clamours raised against you by those who say , it is most unjust that , or , or should be an independent male ▪ judicature ( as if others had no souls ) countable onely to jesus christ for their administration . . by mr. cotton his true principles , they are not independent within themselves to exercise all acts belonging to a congregation ; for synods not onely have power to give light and counsel in matters of truth and practise , but also to command and enjoyn the things to be believed and done . . if then the synod hath a share of the keys , the single congregation must be too narrow a first subject of the keys , especially when the synod as the synod hath the power of the keys to command the churches as the churches , and several congregations . . so the necessity of being circumcised or not circumcised , if we would be saved , act. . must belong to a congregation , and to all the congregations of anti●●h , of ierusalem , &c. then the lord jesus hath not given a power independent to any single congregation , to exercise all acts and all dispensations belonging to them : for sure they cannot determine in a matter belonging to other churches , and more belonging to other churches than to themselves , because of the multitude of concerned churches , but they must no less impose upon the consciences of other churches , if the same seem good to the holy ghost , and to them onely , ( otherwise it s a bastard determination ) then if they should determine it contrary to the knowledge of their own church congregational , and members thereof . . mr. h. takes the word congregation and church for all one , against the grammar of the holy ghost , who taketh the word church even in the new testament , for the collection of believers , agreeing in one faith , one common r●dem●tion ▪ common saviour , common hope of glory , though they be 〈◊〉 a congregation that meets in one place , eph. ▪ , , , . & . . col. . h●b ▪ . . . the reason why they are independent in the exercise of all acts and disp●●sations belonging to a cong●…gation or church , to wit , because they are distinct ▪ species and churches different in nature , is most fr●volous ; for beside , that the reason is false , except christ the head of one congregation be different in nature from the same christ the head of another congregation , and their faith , baptism , hope of their calling , be different in nature ; whereas they are all one in nature , in all the whole catholick body , eph. . , , , , tim. . . eph. . , , . iudo ver . . cor. . . they are as distinct species and churches , different in nature , in regard of pastoral preaching , and par●aking of the same seals , as the brethren teach , ( if any difference of this kinde be ) as they are different in nature in regard of censures ; and so as it is unlawful , by their way , to one of this congregation to submit to the forreign and extrinsecal jurisdiction of other churches , ( as they call it ) so it s as unlawful to submit to pastoral preaching , and the seals tendred by the forreign authority of other churches , because if the head christ , and power juridical be peculiar to one congregation independently , so must pastoral preaching and the seals be to the same church ; and a member must be as much restricted to their own officers onely for acts of office , since they are set over them by the holy ghost , as our brethren say , from act. . . pet. . philip. . . as they are to hear , matth. . that church onely in acts of jurisdiction . the brethren are obliged to shew a difference , or to yield to the argument . mr. h. a particular congregation is species specialissima , which hath in it the nature of the churches in general , and of the species or kindes of churches , are complete without the class●s . ans. let the congregation be complete , as species specialissima in its kinde , yet in extension of power it s not complete ; for we hold , that classis , synods , congregations , differ in nature , and that every one of them , yea the whole integral catholick visible church are all species specialissima ; and mr. r. grants they differ onely in more or less extension of power : and therefore jurisdiction is firstly in them all , as the heat is firstly in the whole body of the fire , not firstly in this or that quarter or portion of the element . chap. ii. the arguments of mr. r. for the first adequate and catholick subject of the keyes are vindicated from the unsatisfying replies of mr. h. mr. h. the apostles ( saith mr. r. ) stand in the room of the whole catholick ministerial guides , when they revealed the keyes . ans. the apostles in that commission were extraordinary persons sent to all the world to lay the foundation of the gospel , by an apostolick power ; and in this sense they have no successors , nor stand in the room of any . ans. if the apostles represent none in this sense , mat. . . mark . . iohn . . go and teach , &c. whose sins ye remit , &c. then none succeed the apostles to teach , baptize , remit , and retain sins ; pastors then must do these without a commission from christ , or these ordinances must cease . . mat. . iohn . he sends the apostles , and sayes , behold i am with you to the end of the world , in preaching and baptizing . but the ▪ apostles do not live to preach and baptize to the end of the world ; ergo , that ministerial presence of christ must be promised to some represented by the apostles . so the english divines , calvin , beza , diodati , as apostles gifted with power of working miracles , &c. they represented none , nor had they any successors . so mat. . the pastors have the power of the keyes and of office given them , page . mr. h. to that church ( saith mr. r ) hath christ given , as to the first subject , the ordinances and ministry , which he prin●ipally intended to perfect , to gather , and to bring to the unity of faith . but he principally intended to perfect , to gather , to bring to the unity of faith , by these ordinances and ministry , the whole catholick visible church , and secondarily this or that congregation . ans. mr. r. lib. . p. . professedly disputes for a church invisible , to be the first subject of all ordinances , christian priviledges and officers . ans. mr. h. halfs my words , how mr. r. makes the invisible church such a first subject is abundantly declared . . these are not to me contrary ; for the catholick visible church , which the lord intends and decrees to bring to glory ▪ is both the invisible chosen , and really believing church , the church mystical , and also the church catholick visible , fed by the visible and audible ministrie of apostles , pastors , &c. onely in that place i deny that body , eph. . . to be visible in mr h. his sense , as he makes his congregation visible , of which magus and iudas are members ; and therefore mr. h. in vain alledges , that those whom christ purposes to bring to the unity of saith &c. eph. . . are such who certainly shall be saved , and are true beleevers , and it is undeniable , ordinances and ministry in their saving fruits , are given firstly to true believers , if we regard the lords intention , as i ever teach . mr. h. mr. r. teacheth that the intendment of salvation , and the giving of ordinances and ministry keep not equal pace each with other . so the arminians ( saith he ) teach lib page . but that god doth intend principally to bring the whole catholick visible church , that consists of elect and reprobate , to the unity of the faith , &c , is false . ans. repeat my argument as i frame it , and the flubble is blown away : to , and for that church , as the subject and object and end , hath christ given as to the first church , the ordinances and ministry which he principally intends and decreet , to bring to the unity of faith , and to salvation : but he intends and decrees to bring to the unity of saith , and to salvation , by these means , onely the whole catholick visible church , and that mystical catholick body of it selfe invisible , but made visible by a calling and inviting ministry of apostles , pastors , &c , eph. . , . for the lord giveth for the loved world , iohn . . for the catholick visible church , sanctified by the word and baptism , eph. . . for his sheep , iohn . . for all his scattered children , iohn . . for the whole world , iohn . , . christ and apostles , pastors , ministry , seals in their substance principally , and all these for this or that , or these real beleevers secondarily . mr. h. leaves out these words of mine , first to , and for the saints , and so perverts my argument , and frames another of his own for mine , which i own not . . if that proposition be utterly untrue , these whom christ intends to bring to the unity of faith , are such certainly , as shall be saved : then must mr. h. side with arminians , who say that grace is common to all , and that god by his antecedent will intends to save all without exception , elect and reprobate , but the reprobate break that intention and decree of god. so the arminians . . saith he , it is undeniable that ordinances and ministry are not given first to real believers . ans. it is undeniable that ordinances and ministry are given first to real beleevers , upon a purpose and intention to save them , eph. . , . and that all priviledges of special note in the mediator christ , promises , ministry , seals in their fruit , are given according to gods gracious intention , to , and for onely the invisible church , as i demonstrate , and not to and for mr. h. his visible congregation , whereof magus is a member , and according to my principles , the intendment of salvation from god , and the giving of ordinances and ministry , first , according to that intendment : secondly , in their saving fruit , as mr. r. demonstrates , go with equal pace . . that god intends to bring the whole visible church of real beleevers , to the unity of faith ; for visible and invisible in my sense are not con●rary , but the whole visible church catholick is both invisible , being known to god only , and visible also , being called by a visible and audible ministry , according to the purpose of god. as paul , rom. . . being a body perfected and gathered by the ministry of apostles , pastors , eph. . , . and . it is undeniably false , which mr. h. saith that the whole visible church consists of good and bad , elect and reprobate ; for this catholick visible church and body , eph. . . eph. . , . colos. . . consists only of elect ones and real beleevers : but mr. r. will not undertake . so much for mr. h. his catholick congregation , of which magus and iudas are visible citizens : and such a church is not the first and proper , and principal subject of ordinances , promises , seals , ministry in their saving fruits , except mr. h. will side with arminians and socinians in this point ; who teach that god intends grace and salvation to all , but many are not saved , and so the intention of god fails . mr. h. but what is all this to the present controversie , that to the guides of the catholick church christ hath committed the keys , as to the first subject : we argue thus . to that church which christ principally intends to bring to the unity of the faith , christ hath given the power of the keyes , as to the first subject . but christ doth not principally intend to bring to the unity of faith , &c. and to gather the ministry of the catholick church ; therefore to the ministry of the catholick church hath he not given the keys , as to the first subject . ans. this is not to the controversie , concerning the first subject of the keyes , nor did i bring it in upon that account , but the question is concerning the constitution of a visible church , in which i deny that the visible congregation , o● our brethrens visible church , of which iudas and magus are as essentiall members , and their church acts as valid , as peter and iohn the visibly and really beleeving apostles are , or their church acts are . i deny ( i say ) such a congregation to be the first subject of the stiles , properties , priviledges of special note , of promises , seals , officers in their saving fruits in the lords intention , and have demonstrated that the catholick invisible church is only the first , principal and proper subject of these , and that our brethren mistake the nature of the visible church , i mean in all the dispute the integral catholick visible church militant : otherwise divines take the catholick church , for these that have been , and now are glorified , and shall be , and are not yet born , and that now are ; but none of the two former are capable subjects of the keyes . . the proposition is not mine , nor the argument : the keys are given ( say i ) to the guides of the catholick visible church , as to the formal subjectum , first and proper , and are exercised by them , by the consent of the people , men , or women ; nor should any new act of doctrine be passed , or weightier points of discipline in assemblies , until the people hear of them , the keyes are given to , and for the whole catholick church of beleevers , as the object and end , for the gathering them in to the unity of faith , eph. . , . and as this visible church falleth under the intention and decree of god to be saved , they are one and the same persons with the invisible church , as the body of christ , eph. . & . is taken for both the invisible body . it is . taken more largely , as the catholick visible body comprehends all that hear , and profess subjection to the gospel , elect and reprobate , and the lord gives a ministry , seals , and visible membership to all , and every one of this body ; to esan , to iacob , to iudas the traitor , as to peter a beleever , not to bring all and every one of them to the unity of faith , and to the acknowledgement of the son of god , but for other unlike ends , finibus disparibus , to save some , to make others inexcusable . mr. h. if all ministerial power ( saith mr. r. ) be given to a congregation ( as our brethren say ) under the name of a flock of redeemed ones , as the body of christ , acts . . colos. . . then it belongs to the catholick church , for these titles agree first to the catholick visible church , colossians . . ephesians . , . tim. . . eph. . , . and so they come to our hand . ans. the catholick church admits of a threefold apprehension . . as it implies a covenanting congregation of beleevers . . as it represents the whole , ut totum representative , an oecumenick council . . ut totum integrale , as it is the whole catholick church spread all the world over , if mr. r. mean the first , we agree , but the guides cannot be the first subject , for the catholick church , and the guides are different . the second part mr. r. grants , that the ministerial power of the keyes is given to a congregation under the name of the flock , &c. hence his cause must needs suffer shipwrack , that the keys are given to the ministry of the catholick church . ans. that the first member of your threefold apprehension hath any warrant in scripture , or sound d●vines , is a meer apprehension . i desire the reader to consider the catholick church . a● . it implyes a covenanting congregation of beleevers ; give a warrant from scripture , sound reason , or divines for that . the catholick church is the whole body militant on earth , excluding none ; but a congregation of covenanting beleevers excludes all churches on earth , except fourty or fifty persons . . the catholick body organical of man , includes all the body and organs of it , head , eyes , mouth , tongue , feet , &c. now what sense is here ? the catholick organical body of man admits of a threefold apprehension . . it implyes the congregation of five fingers combined in the hand , and the hand is predicated of this or that hand : and so is the catholick body of the whole catholick organick body of man. or to come to a politick body , the catholick body of england admits of a threefold apprehension . . it implies the congregation of all the city of york covenanted together , and the city of york is the catholick body of england , which is predicated and affirmed of this or that city of york . no man speaks so but onely mr. hooker that i know . since the world was , no man can say a single congregation , take it either in the common nature of a congregation of a . or for this or that congregation , that a congregation is the catholick church , no more then the hand is the catholick organical body of man. . mr. r. grants ( saith he ) that the ministerial power of the keyes is given to a congregation under the name of a flock , &c. answ. reade my words , if i deny not that , and speak onely according to the grant and confession of our brethren . . onely hypothetically , if all power ministerial be given to a congregation ( by our brethrens confession ) under the name of a flock of redeemed ones , &c. then it belongs firstly to the catholick church , i. e. to the congregation , i never dreamed that a congregation was the catholick church , and i should be crazed in judgement if so i had spoken . and how the keys are given , or belong to the catholick integral body as the object and final cause , to the guides of the catholick church as the first formal subject , i often declare : and what shipwrack or breaking of board is here , let the reader judge . i difference between the ministers and the catholick church by this means : but that mr. h. hath said not one word to my arment . if power , priviledges spiritual be given to the congregation as the redeemed flock and body of christ ; then must power and priviledges be given first and principally to such a company to which these styles of the redeemed of christ , the body of christ agree first ; but to be the redeemed of christ , to be the body of christ , to be his redeemed ones , agree first not to the church of ephesus , nor to any particular church national , provincial , presbyterial , or congregational , but to the whole catholick body , ioh. . . & . . & . . ioh. . & . and when christ is called the head of the body , eph. . . coloss. . . i shall judge him scarce worthy the name of a divine . i cannot expound the places of a single congregation , 〈◊〉 eph. . ● . col. . . the holy ghost speaks of that body , which is the fulness of him , who filleth all in all , eph. . and of the body of which christ i● head , as the first begotten of the dead , and of the whole body reconciled by the blood of the cross , if it be said , the congregation in its common nature is the first subject of the keys , for it contains all the catholick church . ans. it contains no women , aged children , servants , nor sojourners , nor dismembred visible saints , and therefore the congregation independent , in any sense is a narrow and impertinent subject of the key ; and this is shipwrack really to the cause of mr. h. as for that , that the church , cant. . is a congregation , in general , and that the church is one there genere in kinde , it s against the text. . the congregation is not one , but hath threescore queens , fourscore concubines , virgins without number , who are integral parts of that one catholick church , ver . . but essential parts of a congregation , in any sense they are not , but churches in nature different : if these were species , then every one of the threescore must be that one onely church , for genus praedicatur de specie . but it is sure that the innumerable virgins , that is , believers , members of the church , who with chaste love adhere to their onely husband christ , cant. . that is , such as are chosen and called of god ( saith ainsworth on the place ) and faithful ( whether whole churches , as cor. . & . or particular persons ) cannot be every one of them that one onely church catholick , for then every single church should be the onely one spouse of christ , ver . , . . to that church , i mean , for their salvation and good , hath christ given the keys , which is the complete spouse of christ , and to which christ bears the adequate and full relation of the love of redemption , eph. . . ioh. . . ioh. . , . iob. . of love of justifying and washing , rev. . . & . , &c. but neither the congregation this or that , nor the congregation that exists ut genus in specie ( a● most illogically mr. h. says ) is the complete spouse of christ , nor doth christ bear the full and adequate relation of the love of redemption , of justification , sanctification , to the congregation in any sense . for. . this object of love takes not in the visible saints sojourners , dismembers , as said is , to whom christ bears a love as to chaste virgins . . nor is the love of god in choosing , effectual calling , justifying the ungodly ; carrying them on to persevere to the end , terminated upon societies visible , as visible congregations , for so he should love all the reprobates , iudas , magus , who are all visible church-members : but its certain christ loves none of these with that adequate love of redemption , nor with marriage-love , as he doth his beloved spouse , cant. . , , , . & , , . . not is that love of redemption terminated upon persons onely upon the bare relation of church-members , for christ takes them not into the kings chambers , cant. . . to his banqueting house , cant. . . nor draws he them after him by his powerful grace , cant. . . ioh. . nor blesses he , or imbraces them , his left hand being under their head , and his right hand imbracing them , cant. . . nor doth god teach them , ioh. . . nor ingrave his law in their heart , or give a heart of flesh , and a new heart , ier. . . ezek. . . & , . onely in the capacity of visible church-members , for he bestows this love upon the jaylor , upon saul , upon the eunuch , and upon many thousands , before they profess as members ; yea , and upon thousands in the bosom of the church of rome , who out of weakness ( though that be their sin ) dare not profess the gospel : then it must be false , that the nature of the church , and of those spiritual priviledges that belong to the congregation in general , or in this or this congregation ; and that the relation of christ as husband , king. head , seeker of the lost , good shepherd , and of his redeeming love , is broader than a visible congregation , in any sense mr. hooker shall take it , and is no ways commensurate thereunto . and so not one of my arguments but stand in force . chap. iii. some further considerations of the place matth. . any sense , according to mr. hooker , can hardly be put upon that , upon this rock will i build my church . for , . the question is , whether they do any thing to inchurch themselves upon the rock ; for sure they are active in professing , . in suiting membership , . in covenanting : then must magus and iudas , by acting the part of hypocrites , build themselves upon the rock . wilde divinity again ! . christs act of building is either absolute or conditional : if absolute , then saith christ , i inchurch you upon the rock , whether ye believe or believe not ; but scripture never tells us of peter , or any built upon the rock christ , but by real sincere faith . if peters act of faith be conditional , the condition must be either sincere faith , or meer profession ; if the former , we stand strong , mr. h. is at a loss : for there is no promise of real union with the rock , and perseverance , but to such as are living members in christ , ioh. . if the latter , then saith christ , i i promise to you , judas , magus , real union with the rock ; or , upon this faith , ( saith chrysostom ; so hilary , so augustine ) so you play the hypocrites egregiously , and seem to believe . now this shall be non sense . . it cannot be said , i promise to build all in a church-way , so they believe sincerely . for , . the ports of hell and satan should not prevail against persons to strip them of church-membership , contrary to experience . . the promise is made to persons that confess , as peter ; but many real believers and visible professors have been put to death , and are never made church-members this way ; and many real believers in the church of rome never profess , and many church-members , and churches of visible saints are dissolved through persecution . again , there is a name and room promised in the house of god , isa. . but not upon condition of hypocritical , but real believing . obj. iudas was not made an apostle upon condition of faith . ans. true : a man may be made an officer , and his acts valid , and yet the man no sound believer . q. should a man be admitted a church-officer who is not judged a real convert ? ans. the scripture is sparing in submitting conversion or regeneration to the authoritative determination of men , yet the equivalent of this is said . . if timothy must commit the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to faithful men , who are able to teach others , as tim. . . and if . the elders and pastors which titus is to admit , must be to his discerning , beside negatives , not self-willed , not soon angry , &c. also lovers of good men , sober , just , holy , temperate , holding fast the faithful word , &c. tit. . . compared with v. , , , . then must the real holiness of officers be known to timothy and to titus . . if the apostle will have timothy to try bishops and deacons also , and that experiencedly , that they be vigilant , sober , patient , grave , no novices , humble , holy , &c. the way that mettals are tried in the fite , tim. . , , , &c. so the word is , luke . . iam. . . cor. . . and will have him lay hands suddenly on no man , but deliberately , tim. . , . then surely the apostle supposes that they may be known to be such . . if the apostles do charge the multitude , who had no judicial authority to look out from among them , seven men of honest report , full of the holy ghost , and of wisdome , acts . . to be deacons , then luke supposes that that might be answered , we cannot know whether men have the holy ghost or no. the second book of discipline of scotland , cap. pag. . the qualities in general requisite in all them who should bear charge in the kirk , consist in soundness of religion , and godliness of life , according as they are sufficiently for forth in the word of god. now it s not to be supposed , that in a book of church-policy , our reformers speak of godliness that is invisible , and known to god onely ; and so the acts of the assembly of the kirk of scotland . and the cause of the sudden declining of the best churches , and why nazianzen complained so much of the corruption of synods , as sozomen , theodores , socrates , ruffinus , histor. magdeburg . tell us , was , because the churches take not that care , that ministers be savoury and gracious ; from the steersmen all apostasie and rottenness begin . o if the lord would arise and purge his house in scotland ! as for church-members , they ought to be holy ; and though all baptized be actu primo members , yet such as remain habitually ignorant after admonition , are to be cast out , and though they be not cast out certainly , as paralytick or rottened members cannot discharge the functions of life : so those that are scandalous , ignorant , malignant , unfound in the faith , lose their right of suffrages in election of officers , and are to be debarred from the seals . nor can we defend our sinsul practise in this : it were our wisdome to repent of our taking in the malignant party , who shed the blood of the people of god , and obstructed the work of god , into places of trust in the church , state , and the army , contrary to our covenant , they continuing still enemies . chap. iv. of the church-representative , and its power . mr. h. we have dispatched the first member of the controversie , that the power of the keys doth not appertain to the guides of the visible church ; take it as totum genericum , or universale . ans. the first member is so dispatched , as the power of the keys is by mr. h. dispatched and banished out of its due seat and subject , and lodged in the congregation of redeemed visible saints , sometimes onely unofficed brethren , sometimes the church of visible saints , confederate men and women . . no man of ours ( let him be named , if mr. h. or any for him can name him ) ever said , that the keys appertain to the guides of the visible church , taken as totum genericum & universale . for the guides of the visible church is , to all our divines , the guides of the catholick universal church , made up as an interal body of all churches , national , provincial , presbyterial and congregational all the earth over . and to make this integral universal body genus , and the congregational church species , and genus praedicatur de specie , is , as if this were our logick , the church of boston is the whole integral church of all the earth , made up of national , provincial , presbyterial churches . a monster ! mr. h. there be two things , wherein stand the qualifications of members that are commissioners : . gifts and fitness . . delegation , which is the formale , as that they are sent by the churches . the churches , if they follow the pattern , must send , beside pastors , teachers and elders , learned and holy men , that may personate and represent the whole church . this is made the hinge and casting difference betwixt us and papists , whereby our men vindicate the liberty and power of the brethren , for all have definitive voices , not the pope and his proctors onely . ans. how can mr. h. speak of a pattern of oecumenick councels , and claim kindred to our divines against papists ? ●or mr h. mocks such councels . . mr. h. cannot name the man of our divines , except separatists , who draw nigher to socinians and arminians in these points , than to our divines , who . ever taught , that the male-churches of a congregation , are the onely churches who send commissioners to an occumenick councel ? which mr. h. saith hath neither warrant in scripture nor in antiquity for years after christ. . the controversie between papists and our men , was , whether onely bishops soli praelati , say whittaker , willet , professors of leyden , calvin , bucanus , tilenus , windelin , have a decisive voice , and ought not also pastors , doctors , elders learned and holy , to have a decisive voice in synods ? and whether the people should be excluded from debating , reasoning , consenting ; for papists debar laicks as profane , and say , if such beasts touch the mountain , and meddle with holy things , they are to be thrust through with a dart . but mr. h. his hinge of a question is , whether onely unofficed brethren , members of the male congregation , are the onely members of an oecumenick councel , or with them officers , but as sent by those male-societies , otherwise they want the essential form of members , according to our divines judgement ? he is a great stranger in the writings of our divines , who so guesseth at a new question , though i judge mr. h. hath read them diligently . see what the jesuits of rhemes , bellarmine , cornel. à lap. lorinus and others , if ever they dream of such a hinge of a controversie . m. h. the representative body is but a part of the catholick church , not the whole of it , and represents the whole — what the commissioners do by their delegation , it is all one , as if the body did it ; the keys cannot then be firstly in it . ans. it is a mistake wide enough , there is a twofold representing . . the apostles in receiving the keys , matth. . iohn , matth. . represented all officers , even those not born , but they had no commission from unborn men . and so august . serm. . de verbis domini . chrysost. homil . . in matth. . hieronym . l. . contra . iovian . and our divines , calvin , pareus , luther , melancthon , willet , &c. say , that the keyes in peter , who represented all the apostles and faithful pastors , were given to all ministers . now if mr. r. say that the keyes were given first to this representative body apostolick , let mr. h. or any man beat him with strong arguments , and that is a good revenge . . these whom the churches , ( not the male-congregations , as mr. h. saith ) send as commissioners to a synod , are not to be looked upon . as . if the churches were resolved aforehand how far they will follow them ; for why then ( saith mr. cotton ) do they send to the synod for light and counsel ? . neither as if they were sent to carry the faith and consciences to the synod , and the people in and through them did teach synodicè , and the people must follow their determination , be it right or wrong . and so it is a wide mistake , to say what delegates do or say , it is all one , or the like reason ( saith mr. h. ) as if the represented did , or said it . for if the synod say the gospel is not the word of god , the church did not say either personally ( for that is impossible ) or legally the same : only the churches send them to pray & enquire the mind of god from his word , and engage they shall follow them , in as far as they follow christ. nor is delegation the formalis ratio of determining synodically , it is only a necessary condition of determining , and of synodical judging . obj. but mr. r. saith amen to this distinction of mr. parker . ans. true ; these two , fitness and gifts , together with a commission , make a man a commissioner and messenger of the church ; but delegation makes him not a formal definer and a judge : nor do the churches send them as officers , but as such eminently able and faithful men , who have hazarded their lives for the cause , as act. . . and they determine as such eminently holy and able officers ; their delegation is a thing of meer order , because all cannot be sent , nor doth it create them of new officers , nor yet such eminent officers , for they were both these before , only their delegation puts them in an actual orderly capacity to determine formally , ut approximatio ligni aridi ad ignem non est formalis ratio comburendi . mr. h. mr. r. l. . p. . to . runs all upon this , the power of the keyer , by order of nature , is only in the catholick representative body : but the power of the keyes was before there was any representative some . years , when there was no oecumenick councel , and since the churches give their power and officers to the assembly , they had that power before the assembly . ans. read from c. . sect . . & p. . to p. , . where i speak of the catholick church . i say , only that such a synodical power of the keyes , as is dogmatick , especially for light and peace , as mr. cotton speaketh , is first by order of nature in the oecumenick councel : the doubting and contending churches cannot bind ; ecclesia dubitans non docet , ecclesia errans non judicat , ecclesia contendens non liga●n , on solvit , for the doubting , the erring , the contending of churches are no ordinances of god , and erring and contending churches cannot heal themselves ; and therefore the healing power is seated by christs appointment in the synodical church , which is more diffused and stronger , as is clear , when the churches of antioch and iudea are broken , ren●and sick , the wisdom of god , act . hath appointed that these should meet in a synod of the select and choicest parts , apostles and godly elders ; ergo , the healing power of the keys must be first in them . . mr. r. runs not , but ass●rts lently , that power of the keys in binding and loosing , and in opening and shutting heaven in the latitude of preaching , and censures , mat. . was not before christ gave it to the apostles , the then representative of all the faithful guides to be in the church christian to the worlds end , and this grant was made to peter and the apostles , not as to such , private men , simon , such ●ishers , but by evidence of scripture truth . . the testimony of all sound antiquity . . the judgement of protestant divines . . canons of councells . . the doctrine of sounder ancient school-men and popish doctors , occam , alen●is , almain , gerson , bon●venture , &c. not only not . years after , but before christs death , and confirmed before his ascension to heaven . that ever mr. r. said that the power of the keys in their latitude of binding and loosing was in an oecumenick councel , a representative of formally sending churches , and a body of formally sent commissioners , is utterly denied , and no where to be seen in any book that ever he wrote . such as cite him at random would remember ( ) that i teach that the power of the keys , . in its latitude is first given to the apostles , mat. . , . mat. . , . iohn . , . mark . . act. . as the only then catholick representative body , sustaining the person of all officers to the end of the world , and so the first formal subject of the power of the keys in its latitude , is not either the congregation or congregational eldership , nor the presbytery , or synod , all these are but parts , and to make a quarter , or a part of the body of the sun , the first and adequate subject of light , and a quarter , or a part of the body of the element of water the first and adequate subject of the cold and moistness , since these qualities are kindly in the rest of the quarters and parts of the body of the sun , and the body of the element , were bad philosophy . so the adequate first complete formal subject of this power must be the integral catholick body of the guides , as existing in their several churches ; for this power is as kindly and natively in the guides of this church , as in the guides of that church , and equally in all . . the power of the keys as this power synodicall is considered either in the breadth of synodical power , and so to condemn catholick errors and heresies is in an oecumenick councel , and where the local distance of visible churches is greater and wider , the external visible communion in being edified or scandalized is less , and less use there is of censures . a general councel being onely necessary for the optimum esse , the most catholick union and peace of the catholick church : & that such a councel is an ordinance of god mr. cot. proves from act. . . as the power is narrower , it becomes narrower then oecumenical , and descends to national , to provincial , to presbyterial , to congregational ; and all these are parts only . . though the churches send officers to the synod , and have some power of the keyes in their kind before the synods have being ; yet mr. h. can hence conclude nothing of his purpose against me ; for it follows not , ergo , the male-congregations have the complete power of the keys in its latitude , before the synods have being ; nor does it follow , that congregational churches , or presbyterial have that complete power , before synods have being , nor do they confer ( if we speak accurately ) a synodical power of the keys , they only send messengers who are materials of the synod ; but the synodical power is in its parts scattered in the churches of the province and nation , as immes of gold in divers parts of the earth ; and the synodical power comes from the institution of christ , who promises the holy ghost , and fulfils his promise , as mat. . . compared with act. . . nor can the scattered churches bring forth of themselves any synodical power of the keyes when they are met in a synod , the promise made to such as are gathered together in his name , does the business ; and therefore that is soon blown away . it is unpossible that a proper quality can be either in nature , or time , before its subject th● gives it be●ng : but the power of the keyes was . years before there was any general councel in the world . for this proves only that some certain power , to wit , formally synodical , cannot be , until the synod be . . grave divines judge the synod , act. . to be a general councel ; but though it were not so , it differs not in nature from a general councel , and so must partake of its natural qualities , as the natural properties of a man are in a same man. now beside that , christ gave the complete power of the keys to the apostles , be sent them as his father sent him , as a prophet to remit and retain sins , joh. . to be a teaching and baptizing ministry , mat. . which he never gave to the unofficed male-church . christ also appointed an assembly with them in galilee , and keeped it , mat. . . mat. . . mr. h. to define in councels is no proper work in officers . . for so sai●h d. ames , no pastor of the primitive church , and few of the after ages should have fulfilled their pastoral charge . . that which is common ●o the brethren is not proper to pastors . . whitak . it 's open popery to take it from breth ●n . ans. ames is miscited , he states the question , whether only bishops have decisive votes . though it were proper to bishops and pastors , yet it may be ( saith ames ) communicated to other ministers of god. . it is not a pastoral , but an officiall act that we contend for . . it is a poor question , for if learned godly men be chosen , if they be not doctors and ruling elders , they should be such . . the martyr hath a learned discourse , king. . de schism●te , and hath nothing of the question : but from act. . he condemns papists , who exclude laicks from synods , for constantine subscribed the sixth synod , basilius the eighth synod ; nor is it popery , except calvin maintain popery , for he gives to the people consenting , to the apostles and elders judging : and so doth gualther , nor doth whitaker call it popery to seclude laickes from defining , but ●rom speaking , discerning , consenting . i wonder that mr. h. is so confident in this matter . mr. h. arg. . if the power of the keyes belong firstly to the oecumenick councel , then it belongs to all others by vertue of that , risibility agr●es first to man to richard , john , not as these individual men , but as th●y have the nature of man : hence there can no power of the keys ( as ord●nation , excommunication , &c ) be put forth but by vertue of an oecumenick councel giving in their influence first to that work ; which is contrary to the evidence of scripture , and the experience of all ages . the proposition is proved by the rule of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , if none have this power , but only this subject , then this power can go no farther then this , for this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , require . ans. 〈◊〉 . mr. h. wrongs the reader , who sets not down my answer to this argument : for p. . i say , the power of the keys is not given to the catholick presbytery , as to the first subject , to be a mean of edification in an ordinary way but only in an extraordinary and occasional way in these things , wh●ch concern the power of jurisdiction belonging to the whole catholick church . by extraordinary , i mean not that which is against , or above a particular law of god , but that which rarely falls out . hence i never make an oecumenical councel the first subject of the power of the keys in its latitude , as man is the first only subject of risibility , the element of water of cold and heat , for so as only man is risible , and peter visible for mans nature , so only an oecume nick councel should firstly and principally excommunicate and ordain ministers : but i say the just contrary of this , to wit , that an oecumenick councel is onely the first and principal subject of that synodical power , or of that certain power , or special power that belongs to an oecumenick synod formally convened as such , and so to this or that oecumenical councel , because of the common nature of an oecumenical councel . yea , this special power of the keyes is but a part , or a certain kind and species of the power of the keyes in some rare and extraordinary things that belong to the catholick church . but we are now disputing of the first seat and subject of the power of the keyes in general , in the latitude of binding and loosing , opening and shutting the gates of heaven by preaching and censures . and i deny expresly that an oecumenick councel is the first subject of the power of the keyes in this general . and so mr. h. fights with a shadow . non concludit negatum . so my simile is never touched by mr. h. as pag. . the light is first in the whole body of the sun , as the first and prime subject of light ; yet supposing now the received opinion of astronomers , that the sun doth exceed the quantity of the earth , it doth not follow , that this or that part of the sun hath no light in it intrinsecal , but that which is derived from the whole body of the sun , for then this or that part of the sun should have light derived to it ( extrinsecally ) from some other . now the power of the keys is in the whole catholick body of apostles , pastors , doctors , elders , all the world over , as they act respectively in congregations , presbyteries and synods of all sorts , so that one part of the catholick integral body of the catholick church , for example , hath not that power of the keys due to them , derived from the presbytery to the congregational eldership , or from the synod derived to the presbytery , and so forth , by either ascending or descending : but when christ gave the whole power of the keys to the body of the apostles , mat. . . & . . ioh. . , , mar. . . they were the body representative ( i never call them an oecumenick councel ) and did immediately represent any apostles to be chosen , matthias , paul , evangelists , pastors , doctors , elders , that were to be , even to the second coming of christ , and he promiseth his ministerial spiritual presence to them all immediately , mat. . go teach and baptize — lo , i am with you always , ( administring word , seals , censures , according to the rule ) even to the end of the world . now the apostles were not to live preaching and baptizing to the end of the world , therefore the promise must be made to them all , though not yet born . now we reade not of deriving of any power to synods , presbyteries , congregations , by mediation of churches , for christ instituted synods , mat. . . act. . , , , &c. & . , , , , . & . , , , , , . & . , , , , , , &c. and that immediately he instituted presbyterial churches , act. . & . . & . , . and churches congregational to meet in one place , cor. . . and as one part of the element of water ( suppose we make parts of all ) hath not natural moistness and cold from the other parts , but hath it as intrinsecally , without the intervening influence of the other twenty three parts , as they have : so the presbyterial and congregational eldership have as primarily , intrinsecally , immediately in their sphere and orb the keys due to them , according to the proportion of the associated body , as the whole integral-catholick presbytery and church hath , whether in an oecumenick councel , or out of it . it is then a wide mistake in mr. h. to tell us , if an oecumenical councel be the first subject of the keys , ( as it is not ) that there can be no act of power in ordaining of ministers , in excommunicating of delinquents , but by vertue of an oecumenical councel giving their influence first to that work . for if the meaning be ( as it must be ) that a general councel must prove an act , and put forth some actual mandate , commanding such a man to be ordained an officer , such a delinquent to be excommunicate , else the churches cannot proceed : for to take mr h. his own comparison , richard or ioshua cannot be a man , or apt to laugh , except the abstract nature of man give in his influence to the work . and since mr. h. and his brethren make the male-congregation abstracted from this or that congregation , the first formal subject of the whole power of the keys , what influence ( i ask ) doth the so abstract congregation give to the work of ordination and excommunication in a particular congregation ? abstracted natures do not send abroad mandates to all the congregations all the world over , before they can ordain , censure , or excommunicate . if it be said , this agrees to the nature of a congregation in general to ordain and excommunicate , but there needs no other actual influence of a command to come from the congregation in general to this individual congregation for their using of the keys . true , there needs not , by the like , that any mandate pass from the oecumenick councel in general , to this or that individual oecumenick councel in the exercise of its synodical acts . but ( saith mr. h. ) if the oecumenick councel be the first formal subject of the power of the keys , then inferiour courts cannot ordain nor excommunicate without a warrant , and actual command from them . ans. this is feeble : for beside that the oecumenick councel is not at all any such formal first subject , as is said , it s a naughty consequence ; for though power of life and death be in king and parliament as in the first subject , it follows not that an inferiour judge or free city cannot put to death notorious traitors and murtherers all england over , without the influence of some actual mandate from king and parliament to the putting to death of every traitor . so when christ gave power of word , seals and censures to the apostles , as representing all officers , ( say we ) or as representing all believers ( saith mr. h. ) it follows , that officers and the male-church cannot administer word , seals , censures , without the influence of a new actual command from the apostles , who did represent all such to whom jesus christ gave the keyes , by this arguing of mr. h. nor does mr. h. his first deduction follow , that if a general councel be such a subject ( as it is not ) that therefore the existing of such a councel is as necessary as the well-being of the church . for a parliamentary power is necessary for england , yet suppose by war , and other invincible impediments , a parliament could not meet for divers years , yet neither power nor exercise of justice do cease . so here synodical power may be , and by the care of the lord of his house , is continued in lesser assemblies , though such councels exist not . but . the antecedent being true , the consequence is null . nor is the power of the keyes in its latitude , as is said , either firstly or onely , and so not perfectly in this councel , but firstly and intrinsecally in the whole integral presbytery all the earth over . nor is it necessary that this general councel , though it were the first subject of the keys , always attain all its end in the use of the keyes . for the male-church void of pastors cannot attain all its end , to wit , the pastoral preaching , the dogmatick and official sentencing of delinquents , the right tendring of the seals , yet is the male-church the onely formal subject of this power to mr. h. mr. r. said well , that a general councel can hardly excommunicate a whole national church : for it could hardly be known to them , but many are not obstinate in the national heresie and scandal , who through weakness and fear of persecution dare not confess . and it s enough that a national church may be declared to be no church : as moses removed the tabernacle , and pitched it without the camp , exod. . . and paul turned away from the blaspheming jews acts. . , . and yet neither the one nor the other is the excommunicating of a national church , for the word of the covenant remained in the nation of the jews , after paul and barnabas turned from them , and preached to the gentiles , iam. . . heb. . . & . . & . . pet. . ioh. . . & . , . nor is our brethrens new censure of non communion of churches so warrantable . for , . the removing of the candlestick seems to be a judgment inflicted onely by jesus christ ; and they who declare such a society to be no church , must have the warrant of christ going before , and really removing the gospel . for if the word , the contract of marriage , and seals , remain there in their substance , they can only ( the profession thereof not ceasing ) declare them an impure and corrupt church , but not to be no church . . the doctrine or practise of a church may be erroneous , hurtful and destructive to holiness , as that of pergamus and thyatira , and they defend it ; and yet remaining sound in other points , they cease not to be a people in covenant with god , and they cannot be declared no church , and the ministerial acts of baptizing invalid , and to be reiterate , as is clear in the church of the jews , though idolatrous , and in the scribes and pharisees , corrupt the same way in practise and doctrine , whom christ commandeth to hear , mat. . , . far more for a sinful act of jurisdiction , leave they not off to be a church . . how can it be clear to a sister-church , that there are not there , the church being above a thousand , or many churches , ( for many churches may be unchurched as well as one ) a few names that out of weakness onely are silent at the sinful doctrine and practise of the church . . it s hard to say the church of rome , in which there are the matrimonial tables , the old and new testament , valid baptism , and salvation to a covenanted people by the fundamentals preached , is no church , though communion with such a whore be unlawful . mr. h. if the churches refuse the sentence of excommunication inflicted by the court o●cumenical , it can never prevail to attain its end . ans. ergo , its unlawful . it follows not , the churches , the person excommunicate refuse to abstain from the society of one excommunicate , and excommunication hardens and humbles not ; ergo , its unlawful : so the gospel is the savour of death unto death , cor. . , a rock of stumbling , pet. . . and prepared vengeance , cor. . . to some ; ergo , it s not the word of god. many such consequences have been drawn , to make mr. r. his way odious to the godly . but i desire to contend for truth . mr. h. to the ministery and catholick guides of that visible church , hath christ committed the keys as the first subject , to the which he hath given his word , ordinances , sacraments , ministery primarily . this is mr. r. his in terminis determinate conclusion beyond all gainsaying . but to the oecumenick councel , as the representative of all churches , god hath not primarily given his ministery , word , sacraments , ordinances ; then an oecumenick representive church hath not the keys given to it as to the first subject . the assumption onely needs proof . . there was no such councel for years after christ. . councels consist primarily of pastors and elders ; then must ministers be sent to feed ministers . . word and seals are not primarily attended in councels , but scanning of controversies . ans. . i complain of unfaithful repeating of my words . the title is not of oecumenick councels , but chap. . sect . . pag. . of the communion of the visible catholick church . to the proposition i answer ; to the ministery and guides of that catholick visible church hath christ committed the keys , as to the first subject , unto which he hath given his word , ordinances , sacraments , ministery primarily . this neither is conclusion nor principle of mine , but a same and curtailed proposition of mr. h. my words are these , cap. . sect . . pag. . to this church catholick visible hath the lord given a ministery , and all his ordinances of word and sacraments principally and primarily , and to the ministery and guides of this catholick church visible hath the lord committed the keyes as to the first subject , and for the visible church catholick , including also the invisible church as for the object and end , hath he given his ordinances and the power of his keys ; and the ministery and ordinances are not given to this or this congregation which meeteth ordinarily in one place . so the proposition which i own from these words , must be this . to the church catholick visible as to the first subject primarily , and as for the l●st end and object , hath the lo●d given all his ordinances , word , sacraments , ministery . this is mine in terminis . and this also : to the guides of this catholick church , not of a single congregation , hath the lord committed the keys as to the first formal subject , but for the church catholick visible and invisible , as for the end and object , that they may be saved . but mr. h , his proposition is not mine , he devised it himself , and its false , gainsaid by mr. r. to wit , to the guides of that catholick visible church hath the lord committed the keys as to the first subject , unto which he hath given his word , ordinances , sacraments , ministery primarily . for , . i know no guides of any church on earth , to whom the lord hath given the seals primarily , for god hath given the seals primarily to his chosen people , to the guides secondarily , as they are visible saints . . i know no ministers of any church to whom the lord hath given the ministery primarily : it s a sensless saying . . i refer it to the reader , if such a sensless proposition can be drawn from my words . the catholick visible church is neither the subject , nor first subject , but the object and end for which the keys are given to the ministers and whole officers of the catholick church visible and invisible . yea , i demonstrate by many arguments , that believers are not the subject of the keys . i say indeed , not the visible church whereof magus and iudas are members , is the prime subject , but the invisible church is in the lords intention such a subject of all ordinances in their saving fruits : but then the first subject is all one with the object and end of god in predestination . . the assumption is granted , but mr. h. his probations are naught . . there was no general councels the first years after christ. ans. mr. simpson , and other grave divines say , the councel at ierusalem , act. . is more worthy the name of an occumenick councel , than the councels of nice , of constantinople , of ephesus , of chalcedon . . such a councel is not the first subject of the keys , but onely of the synodical keys in such a general councel , of the keys catholick dispensed . . the apostles , the representative of all the guides of the church , may well stand for a formal councel occumenick . . the long want of general councels , through providential impediments , can no more prove them to be no ordinances of god jur● which ought to be , than if one should say , circumcision , and the passover , and sacrifices , and an ephod , are no ordinances of god. for it is thought by the learned on hos. . israel was without a king , sacrifice , image , teraphim , ephod , from the sixth year of the reign of hezekiah , when salmanasser carried away the ten tribes , until christ was crowned king , to wit , six hundred and seventy five years . see the english divines , diodati , iunius , pareus . zanchins on the place : by this it shall follow , that circumcision , the sacrifices , ephod then are no ordinances of god , for if they were ( say the dissenting brethren ) institutions are suitable to providenoes . when ye go up to ierusalem , no man shall desire your land . then if a general councel were an ordinance of christ , the lord should suit his providence to a peaceable meeting of the churches in a general councel . but so from the sixth year of the reign of hezekiah in israel , sacrifices , priests , ephods , the kingly power shall be no ordinances of god , for even till christ these were not in israel ; and by this profession of the gospel , and congregational churches were not at all . and should not the lord have framed the like providence , that professors of christ meet in day-light in congregational assemblies ? for as the lord made a special typical promise , when the males go up thrice a year to ierusalem to worship , the nations were not permitted of god to desire their land : so must the like promise of providence suiting with the profession of christ be in the new testament , the heathen emperours shall not desire your lives . now the plain contrary providence is foretold by our saviour , mat. . , to . luke . , to . ioh. . , . and the lord must , by this , fail against his ordinance of professing christ before men . when in the persecution of flavius domitian , an . . of trajan , an . , so many martyrs were killed , as eusebius saith ; and plinius . the deputy was smitten in conscience with their number and patience . so multitudes suffered under antonius pius ; and in the time of d●cius , an . . there was no congregation , no eldership . many suffered under nero , many under maximinus . so euseb. l. . c. . under valerian , an . . who killed pastors and professors ; as eusebius , l. . c. , , . especially godly cyprian . now sure the lord had as sweet and comfortable a providence suiting with the glorifying of his name , and advancing his gospel by the death of so many witnesses , as if he had suffered them to meet in congregations , to meet peaceably , none desiring to take away their life or land , as in israels day , for their meeting to serve god in congregations . and it s an overturning of the ordinances of god in the new testament , in which there is not given a land flowing with milk and honey , and a promise of a temporal typical providence , that they shall be free of persecution in following church-duties , and publick worship congregational , which is not existent in all ages : nor saith mr. ruthurfurd , that ministers are given to ministers primarily , but as they are members of the body visible , and chosen of god , ephes. . chap. v. whether the congregation as the congregation doth excommunicate a delinquent ? or is it the catholick visible . church which excommunicates ? mr. r. his meaning is , that the congregation excommunicateth not as a congregation , by a power which by order of nature is first in it self , but by a power which by nature is first in the whole eldership ; but yet not by an act coming from the privity , knowledge and conscience of all the whole catholick body of officers all the world over . and so i grant , that the catholick visible church doth not anteced ntly excommunicate , leading witnesses , and summoning , and accusing , and sentencing the person before the congregation ; as when norwich puts a traitor to death , the state of england by the law common to all england , in and by norwich putteth the man to death : nor doth norwich as a single corporation ( though neither simply as a representative ) but acting as a part of the body of england . and the whole state doth this antecedently : . because the city doth this by the same power of law common to all england : quae sunt communi●ra sunt priora . . norwich puts this traitor to death , not as an enemy to that single corporation onely , but as a common enemy to the whole kingdom . . the city doth this by an innate power , as an integral part of england , for the peace and safety of the whole kingdom : yet doth not the whole kingdom knowingly exercise an act of deliberate judicial authority in this ; for the man is put to death without the privity and knowledge of the whole kingdom . i used the comparison ( to cousen the inconsiderate reader ( saith mr. h. ) i hate cousening ) the left hand cuts off the finger of the right hand lest it infect with a gangrene the whole body , acted by the natural instinct , and innate desire of self . safety , which is in the whole man. but ( saith mr. h. ) the chief officers are not at the mind and will , and the other churches as the whole man : but the rest of the brethren are as the whole man , who have an intrinsical power for the safety of the whole congregation , to cut off an an infectious member . ans. nor is the comparison to be strained ; i shall onely desire it to be taken as mr. h. saith . it s true , the left hand doth not cut off the contagious finger , but the whole man , deliberate will and reason consenting thereunto ; and the finger is cut off , not by the power of the left hand onely , but the intrinsecal power of the body . and it is so exactly in a particular congregation , the chief officers , as the mind and will , and the rest of the brethren as the whole , have an intrinsecal power from christ to remove an infectious member . ans. they have a power to remove him ( saith mr. r. in his comparison ) not from that congregation onely , but from the whole catholick body : as the left hand cuts off the contagious finger , not from the right hand onely , but from the whole body . it wrongeth christ to say , he hath given so selfie and narrow a power , to liberate onely a body of or independent members from the contagion of scandal , but not to free five thousand , and the associate bodies round about : let them perish , christ hath given no organick or church-care to the congregation toward them all ( saith mr. h. ) . the comparison is not exact . when the fraternity excommunicates all their officers , where is the mind and will then ? for they excommunicate their own minde and will. . mr. r. never meant the comparison should hold in this , that the catholick church , as mind and will , should put forth acts of deliberate reason — antecedently to cite , accuse , sentence every delinquent in an oecumenick councel , or some catholick judicature , and to excommunicate all delinquents , before ever the congregation cite them . with divers arguments he refutes an antecedent excommunication , as if i held any such thing . so mr. h. loves to prove strongly what mr. r. never denied . but mr. h. speaks nothing to my argument , if the m●n be cast out , and bound on earth , he must be bound only on that tract of earth where twenty independents are . but . church binding in heaven , and the guiltiness of the scandal is alike in all places , and often more infectious to others , if it be a taking heresie , then to their own congregation . . who shall perswade that our saviours sense is so hampered ? let him be to thee as an heathen , mat. . . as thee only , who art a member of the congregation whereof he is a member ; yea , as touching church binding , neither is he a known guiltless visible saint to all churches on earth . it is nothing but a naked evasion to say he is consequently cut off from right to ordinances in all other congregations , for because one species of corporations hath condemned a man ( saith mr. h. page . ) it follows not , that therefore all have condemned him to imprisonment perpetual , or the like . ans. yea , what one city doth in punishing a malefactor by law power , common to all england , that same all england doth in law : for twenty sons have by the same law and authority of the fathers right of twenty tables of twenty families of the father . one is for sedition against his father cast out of one family , whereof he is a fixed member ; the other nineteen , though they know nothing of the fact , and doe never actually cite him , yet do legally , and by the law , and the same very wil of the father , that ruleth them all , cast him antecedently out , or concomitanter ; or then another law must appoint the other nineteen families to cast him out . so the same right idem numero , that peter hath to christ and ordinances in one church , he hath it in all ; and that same act of the keyes administred according to the rule of the word , in one church removing that right , removes it from him all the world over . . visible saints by this shall not be the same spiritually politick body , visible , being of divers congregations : contrary to scripture , expounded by mr. h. and mr. cotton , we being many are one body visible , and visible of twenty congregations , partaking of one bread and body of christ. now by this , as a finger cut off paul , is not a finger cut off iohn , for iohn hath all his ten fingers entire , and paul hath his nine fingers only : so also if thomas disobedient he cast out of only his own congregation , he is never cast out of church-right to christ , and ordinances in the rest of the congregations ; for excommunication by consequence , is only a declaring by witnesses ( as mr. h. saith pag. . ) that the man is cast out of his own congregation . now the declaring that paul's finger is cut off , is not a cutting off of his finger , that is impossible . far less is it possible , that the declaring that paul's finger is cut off , can be either a declaring that peters finger is cut off , or that that declaring is a cutting off of paul's finger , or a cutting off of peters finger . therefore peters being cast one of his own church-right , and church only , is no casting of him out of other churches , or real removing of his church-right to ordinances in other churches . for that which was never really removed , and peter once had , it must remain with peter yet : now peter was never a member of any congregation but of one ; then membership to another congregation cannot be taken from him . . a member is cast out as really scandalous ; his adultery obstinately continued in makes him be deprived of christian fellowship with brethren as brethren : ergo , he is deprived of the christian fellowship of all brethren . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 followeth upon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and . it is thus confirmed ; his visible scandal is a church-offence to one of a sister-congregation , and is apt to bring a church-contagion to these of another congregation , who are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one body with him at the lords table ; and therefore are they now to look on him as an heathen . but who put him in that state , if he be not really and formally cast out of that body , when his own church excommunicates him ? . he that hears not the church , heares not christ , and he that despiseth any pastor sent in the name of christ , despiseth christ , mat. . . luke . . iohn . . now if this stand good , one that despiseth his own pastor only , and his own congregation only , though he despise all the godly prophets , pastors , and soundest churches on earth , despiseth not christ nor his father that sent him ; nor is he first in foro dei , bound in heaven , and guilty before god , nor deserves he to be excommunicate , for he hath not failed against that , he that despiseth you despiseth me . for that is true only when any despiseth their own pastor , or their own congregation . and if so , then when one is cast out , and judgeth an heathen for not hearing of his own church , he is not heathen in heaven , and in foro dei , as touching his communion with other pastors and other congregations . . peter before he was excommunicated , had a real right to the lords table in all churches on earth , and so a sort of membership and visible communion with all these churches . now if by the act of excommunication in his own church , this right be not taken from him , then must it be taken from him by all the churches : and so all the churches must excommunicate when one excommunicates : and by the like , all must admit one into membership , when one admits into membership . mr. h. the sister churches ( mr. r. ) receive members of other churches to communion , by an intrinsecal church power . ans. by an authoritative church power we can enjoyn our own members to come to the seals , or else censure them ; but we cannot so deal with others , if it shall seem good to them to refuse . ans. this only follows , that the congregation hath a larger church power over their own members , both to censure them , if they come not , and positively to admit them , if they come : but mr. h. must confess that the congregation admits strangers of other congregations , by a meer private p●wer , and by no church power , which is gross erastianisme , and makes it arbitrary to one single pastor to admit some to the communion , as he pleaseth , and some not . . by no church power is the sacrament tendered to strangers of another congregation ; so may the minister give this seal to a stranger in his chamber , which is a private communion , for there is no authoritative church power required to give it to some . whereas paul saith , it is a priviledge of the church , coming together to eat the lords body , cor. . , , . cor. . . . this supper must be given to our own church members by church authority ; to strangers by no church authority . . it is by accident that the congregation cannot compel strangers to come to this seal , for in collegio the elders of the congregation may joyntly with the rest of the presbytery censure these of another flock , who altogether refuse the seals . . mr. h. grants that a congregation excommunicates in the general nature of a congregation . well then , the general nature discourseth in man ; and so doth a church in an island excommunicate ; ergo , that church proceeding according to the rule of christ , casts the man formally out of all the congregations on earth . mr. h. addeth , yea the neighbour churches are ( saith mr. r. ) to exercise the punishment of avoiding the excommunicate person as an heathen , which follows from a power which is no wayes in them ; what conscience is here ? ans. a good conscience , if we may carry our selves to a scandalous m●n so d●clared by two or three witnesses , as we avoid his company ; far more upon the testimony of a whole church , are we to avoid his company . ans. then nothing is left to the neighbour churches , but is he excommunicate or not , by one onely congregation , they had no hand in it , onely they must believe the man is rightly cast out , upon the word of five or six of the male-church , who are both judge and party . this is what i said . a declararation of excommunication is no excommunication . and then must the congregations about with the meer judgment of discretion , which women have , eschew the man as a pagan . obj. by mr. r. his way , you have the testimony of the church only which did excommunicate ? ans. yea , place is left to many churches and synods to judg : this is another matter , then four of the male-church that are both judge and party , who declare he is cast out . mr. h. one classical church excommunicates not antecedenter . but a man in the confines of two presbyteries is excommunicated by the presbytery only of which he is a member , saith mr. r. ans. what ropes can tie the consequent with the antecedent ? what mr. r. hath said of the antecedent excommunication of the catholick church , is plain by the former discussion . chap. vi. whether there be a whole catholick integral visible church ? mr. h. the catholick church hath sometimes such a respect a●s totum integra●e , an whole integral catholick church . so a●es . ans. d. ames maintains that there is not only such a respect , but that there is a catholick integral church ; and he never dreamed , nor any learned man of mr. h. his catholick church affirmed of this or that congregation , and is as much as to say , norwich is catholick england . the catholick church of angels and men in all ages , all times , all places , is not that integral catholick visible church which we make the subject of the keyes . but this integral church militant , as existing in divers ages , is before the congregation in the lords intention , as the lord intends the organick body of man , and not a hand only ; and a complete world , not a nation , not a city only ; so his design is not for this or that congregation , but for a world of visible churches , a whole seed , a willing people , psal. . who is flowing to the mountain of the lords house , isa. . , . his flock and scattered sons , isa. . . under the government of christ by the word , seals , censures , luk. . , . make them in their times , and places , all the world over , visible by profession , calling , gathering , feeding , ier. . , . zech. . , , . psal. . , . psal . , , , , , , &c. rev. . . psal . , . iohn . . and the congregations come in here as secondary parts and parcels of christs great visible flock . mr. h. denies this , and it is , as if a man would say there be two hands , ten fingers , two feet , head , eyes , ears , &c. but should deny there is an whole organick body ; or as one should yeeld there are rivers , floods , fountains , seas , but deny there is such a thing as the integral element of water . . this integral militant body is before the congregation , in the relation of a spouse that hath breasts , and brings ●orth children , isa. , . cant. . . cant. . , , , cant. . , , , &c. in the relation of a body wrought upon by a ministry , eph. . , , . cor. . , , , . the congregation is but his spouse and body secondarily , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . some congregation of seven or ten , where all may be of the stamp of iudas and magus , is abusively called the spouse . . in duration and stability , there is a church gifted with a ministry , having the keys of the kingdom built upon the rock , against which the gates of hell shall not prevail , mat. . , , . induring as the dayes of heaven , which is so as the object of our faith , isa. . . psal. . , &c. ier. , , , &c. they are also a visible sheepfold of jews and gentiles , iohn . . the building of god , the planting of the lord , isa. . , , , . mich . , . & . , , . and the congregations little companies in mount zion . . there is a church integral militant , visible , and in its choisest part invisible , to whom as the subject , and for whom , as the end and object , are given the covenant , word , promises of life , ministry , seals , censures , in their saving fruits , as before is said , ier. . , , &c. ier. . , , . psal. . , &c. these in an inferiour way the congregations have and enjoy . . the whole and complete work of the spirit in the ministry and word , is terminated upon the catholick integral militant body . isa. . , . eph. . , , , &c. and the congregation hath the waterings thereof in a lower way . mr. h. you cannot demonstrate out of scripture , that there is such a thing in the new testament as a catholick visible church . mr. r. saith the subject , cor. . . is a catholick visible church , not a politick body under one head , the pope ; but the catholick body of christ mystical , as visible . ans. the catholick invisible body as visible , i conceive not ; to consider a body invisible as visible , is a contradiction , as if a man would say , i consider whiteness as blackness . ans. cor. . is neither meant of a politick body , under the pope . . nor a general councel : . nor of a catholick visible body , that meet in the same place . such is not found under the new testament , whence he must mean that under the old testament . there was a catholick visible church of the jewes that meets in the same place at one time , as the brethren take a visible church , which is unpossible to be demonstrate in either old or new testament . . mr. h. hath from me no such expression , as to consider an invisible body as visible , though it be no contradiction , as is blackness and whiteness in abstracto . if mr. r. had said , visibleness may be considered as invisibleness , mr. h. should have better logick ; why is it a contradiction ? the mystical body in common ( saith he ) is the invisible body . true , and the mystical body is both invisible , being the really chosen of god , and the object of our faith , and the same invisible church which shall be presented without spot or wrinkle before the lord , eph. . . and the same church and body is sanctified by the word , preached and professed , and washed with water in baptism , v. . and so visible . and eph. . the body which shall come to the unity of faith , and to the perfect man , the stature of christ , eph. . . is the mystical , and savingly believing body , and so invisible ; & also the body of christ gathered by the ministry visible , and edified by the word preached and professed , is v. . the same body , and must be visible , for apostles & pastors preach to the visible church . a child in logick can conceive , the same politick body savingly believing to be invisible , and also savingly professing what they believe to be visible . so the twelve apostles , act. . are both real , and so invisible believers , as no man doubts ( iudas being in his place ) and the scripture in it , mat. . , , . luke . . luke . , , . and he is not worthy to be refuted , who denies the same twelve apostles in another respect to be visible professors , visible preachers of the gospel . so peter , as touching his soul , is invisible and immortal , as touching his body , visible and mortal . i cannot help it , that mr. h. conceives this to be a contradiction . i observe ( saith he ) that mr. r. puts visible in an equal latitude with mystical . ans. adde to the observation , that in this i take not visible for mr. h. his visibility , which agreeth to magus and iudas ; but that sincere and honest visible profession , that for the most part is in the catholick integral militant redeemed body , and mystical , well neer of an equal breadth and latitude . not but that there may be , and are many beleevers members of the mystical body , who have little or no visible profession . but it is enough to assert as truth , that one and the same body is both invisible , mystical , and the saved body , and also visible , and clothed with a real sincere profession ; and that both these agree to the catholick integral militant church . though i deny not , but that there be many hypocrites in this great body , whose ministerial acts are valid . but the catholick visible church in that latitude is not then both subject , object , and intended end of all ordinances . and i speak now of it . mr. h. i cannot think that mr. r. takes the catholick church for the whole integral body . ans. it is mistaking charity of me . mr. h. that church is meant cor. . in which god sets teachers , helps , ordinary officers , firstly , v. . but god sets not such in the integral body ; for they are set by the election of the people in particular congregations , acts . . & . . tit. . . ans. this is my own argument , but not rightly formed ; that church is here meant , in which the lord hath respectively placed first apostles — and teachers , both extraordinary and ordinary officers . but god hath not set apostles fixedly and firstly over congregations , they being organs of the catholick integral body , and are sent to preach to heathen ( who after were churches . as it is said , iacob served for a wife , to be married , not married as yet ) who could not choose the apostles as their pastors . . workers of miracles were not chosen by a single congregation , no● such as had the gift of tongues , cor. . . tongues are for a sign to them that believe , not to them that believe not . see the divines on the place . miracles and tongues were to perswade unbelievers , and were not firstly set to congregations , nor could have any imaginable election and call from them . . the places , as elsewhere is said , prove not any thing to the point . mr. h. arg. . in what church pastors are firstly set over them , they have firstly and primarily pastoral power in dispencing acts of ruling and preaching : but ordinary teachers have not this over the catholick visible church . congregations may justly refuse to hear other teachers then their own ; but their own may preach to them , though they refuse to hear . ans. every word is censurable . . apostles were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , firstly both in regard of dignity of office , and of apostolick universality , sent to all nations to preach , not to a single congregation to exercise pastoral acts firstly over it , as fixed pastors . . by a catholick church mr : h. means ( sed suis musis solus canit ) a congregation . now if the apostles be firstly set in the congregation in general , they must be secondarily set in this individual congregation ; then must the ordinary teacher be set before the apostle , who was often his sender , in the individual congregation . . the proposition is false : a pastor may tender the lords supper to hundreds of a sister-congregation ; but mr. h. i hope , will not say that a pastor is set over , and firstly over hundreds of another congregation . the antecedent and consequence are both mr. hookers . . it s false that ordinary teachers have not power to exercise pastoral acts to those of other congregations . nor is it proved , they cannot exercise pastoral acts over them , because they cannot censure them . it s an illogical consequence , ordinary to mr. h. the apostles , both as apostles , by miracles and the gift of tongues , plant churches among the heathen , and as pastors they exercise ordinary pastoral acts to the heathen , in planting and preaching the gospel to them , but they could not draw out church-censures against the heathen , yet remaining heathen , because of the incapacity of the object , they could not cast them out who were not yet within : cor. . , . but this they could not do not through want of pastoral power over them . . it s false , that other churches may justly refuse to hear other teachers than their own : for if their own be sick and dead , or if other teachers have an earnest suit and desire from their own officers and some one of the congregation , they most unjustly refuse to hear , and come under the guilt of despising christ in despising his messengers , as mat. . . luke . . ioh. . except the sense be , he that receiveth not his own congregational pastor , receiveth not me , otherwise not . a strange and new sense ! . if the flock refuse all their own pastors to hear them , as being ravening wolves , they unpastor them , and recall the official being , which our brethren say they gave them in election , and so unjustly refuse to hear them ; and they cannot justly preach to them , who so refuse to hear , for they justly refuse , a● mr. h. teacheth . mr. h. god must either ( saith mr. h ) have pl●●ed in all the church catholick , apostles , teachers , which we say , or then in some part of it onely . and what is that part which is excepted ? surely he intends not salvation to that part of the church in the which he sets no teachers . ans. at the common nature of a corporation exists in all corporations ; so the congregation-nature exists in this or this congregation — so if the nature of a corporation be common to all , and the king hath set major and common-councel in all and every town : therefore the major of one town may rule in another . so all states set generals , colonels , captains in the army . the king sets constables in all towns , sheriffs in all counties : because constables are common to all towns , therefore a constable may exercise his office in another town . ans. . the argument must run thus : as the king hath set in england the lord keeper of the great seal , the lord chief justice , the sheriff , the constable in every county and town ; so hath god set in his church , that is , in the congregation , first apostles , secondarily prophets , thirdly teachers , after that miracles , then gifts of healings , &c. but the king hath set in england the lord keeper , the lord chief justice , the constable in every county , in every town , how many great seals , how many lords of chief justice should then be in england ? and do not our ●ound divines condemn in papists the argument from civil government , and honour due to persons in the point of the government of gods house , and of adoring of god in images ? he is a stranger to bellarmine , valentia , suarez , vasquez , tanerus , &c. and to our divines , reynold , chamier , calvin , bucanus , tilenus , daneus , chemnitius , luther , &c. who knows not this . . neither major proposition nor assumption have any truth : for hath god set the apostles , the planters and framers of churches out of heathen societies , in no chair , but fixed them to a congregational pulpit onely ? the apostles have care of all things , cor. . . command schismatick churches , cor. . . plant and lay the foundation of churches , as wise master-builders , acts . . , , , . & . , , , , cor. . . . appoint new offices in the church , acts . . now if god have seated the apostles in such a way in every congregation , as ordinary teachers are , then the apostles proper place must be onely to water and confirm visible converts , and members of a fixed and framed congregation ; where then are the apostles letters patents to build , to plant , to lay the foundation ? . when it s said , as it must be , or it comes not home , the king hath placed in england the whole integral body of the kingdom of england , the lord keeper , the lord chief justice , the constable , as he hath placed in the church apostles and teachers in the whole integral church : these extraordinary and ordinary officers it cannot be meant , the king hath placed a lord keeper , and a lord chief justice in every town and city of england ; so neither hath the lord placed an apostle in every congregation upon the same account , and he who is an apostle in one congregation , can no more be an apostle in another , than a major of one city can be a major in another : and it must run so ; the state hath placed a general , colonels , captains in their armies , i. e. in every particular society of the armies , and so every company must have a general , therefore hath the state set generals , colonels , captains in their armies in the plural number . now the state hath set but one general over all the army , as the church is but one . . if the argument run thus : as the major of norwich may not rule as major of york ; so neither may a pastor in one congregation teach & rule as a pastor in another congregation . this is utterly false : and it s an argument like this , as god hath confined rulers to one society onely in the civil state , so hath he confined the officers of his sons house : one word of scripture to prove this should silence mr. r. it s not lawful to devise parallels between the civil state and christs kingdome . suppose all the majors , rulers , citizens of all the cities and towns in england had the same divine right to command in all the cities and towns in england , and that these majors were rulers equally and in common to all those towns , and that it were a matter of providential order , not of divine jurisdiction , that a. b. should be fixed major of norwich , and c. d. fixed major of york , and so forth : then if c. d. by providence should be at norwich , he might rule as a major at norwich , or any town or city of england , as well as at york : and so is here the matter ; a called pastor is a pastor , and may act pastorally , and dispense the seal of the lords supper to those of another congregation , say our brethren , and so to another whole congregation ; for there is the same reason in both . so all visible professors have the same divine church-right to the same christ the head : . to the same gospel and covenant of grace : ( for d●stinct church-covenants are mens lawless inventions , as used by our brethren . ) . to the same lords supper , cor. . . . to the same eternal life so mr. h. shall gain nothing by this , but lose : for there is no such right civil , common to civil rulers and civil citizens . one town hath city priviledges that no other town in the kingdom hath . mr. h. right of iurisdiction flowing from office-call , a pastor hath not , save in his own congregation . ans. there must be one call or other for a pastor to exercise his office : but a new office , or new right of jurisdiction other then pastoral , which he received in ordination , is not requisite for a pastor to act as a pastor . yea , he sins against his office-charge and talent , if in all congregations he do not preach the word , be instant in season and out of season ( not at ephesus only , for an evangelist , such as timothy was , not an ordinary fixed teacher ) if he do not reprove , rebuke , and exhort with all long-suffering , tim. . , . the danger of perishing of souls , or the absence , or removal of the pastors by death , is a fit call of god , though the greater part of sardis love not to be rebuked . mr. h. god hath set in his church , i. e. in the congregation existing in its particulars , apostles , &c. and therefore all congregations are here intended . ans. . by this god hath set apostles , miracles , in the single congregation , whether as apostles , or as pastors , if the former , speaking with tongues , working of miracles , which are for unbeleevers and heathen , cor. . . shall be officers or gifts ordained for visible saints converted . by what scripture ? . though the church exclude not the congregations , but in some respects include them ; yet it is a body called christ mystical , v. . to which christ is head by influence of his spirit , and brings no small consolation to us , as beza , calvin , pet. martyr , who make this the catholick church . . whereas mr. h. his single congregation of magus and iudas can hardly stand under the weight of that denomination . nor can it well be said , that great apostles , prophets , workers of miracles , such as speak with tongues , are eyes and ears fixed in single congregations ; for this is such an organical body , v. , , , , , . never interpreter , neither occumenius , nor augustine , nor beza , calvin , martyr , pareus , nor judicious papists , victorinus , carthusian , estius , cajetanus , expound it , as mr. h. of a single congregation , but of the catholick church ( saith martyr ) of men of all nations ( saith pareus ) though they dwell in divers places of the earth ( saith pareus ) this is the mystical body ( saith estius ) membra autem omnes fideles , the members are all the faithful . he proves ( saith cajetanus ) omnes christianos esse unum corpus christi , all christians ( behold the catholick church ) to be the one body of christ , because they are all begotten into one spirit by baptism . . the church here is the church all baptized into one body , whether iews or gentiles , whether bond or free , which all drink the same drink in the lords supper . mr. h. in all these congregations are comprehended both iewes and gentiles , for the whole nature of the general is comprehended in the particulars . well ; and the spirit that is in all the body must be one genere , and the drink in the lords supper must be one genere , and so must the christ of which we partake be one genere hence there being many species and kinds of congregations different in nature , there must be many christs different in nature , many spirits , many bodies , many lords suppers different in species and nature , of which we partake . who ever heard in the church of christ many christs , many baptismes ? yet mr. h. makes many congregations so different in nature , as he that hath right to christ , seals , especially baptism , hath no more right to christ , baptism to his seed , censures in another congregation , then a turk hath . . it s absurd that jewes and gentiles are all baptized unto one single congregation . we do not think that the apostles ( ad ioh. baptist ) baptized all the thousands , as tryed converts , into visible framed congregations , whom they b●ptized , mat. . so the brethren . we think the contrary . nor can such dream , as that these thousands so baptized can be warrantably obtruded as a platform of discipline upon the churches of christ. . this ( we are all one ) must be in the head christ , and by faith really apprehending christ ; yea , as the father and the son are one , iohn . , now not only members of an independent congregation are so one , but also all beleevers of a province , of a nation ; yea , all that shal beleeve in god , through the word of the apostles , iohn . . and all given of the father to christ : who shall behold the glory that the father hath given to christ , iohn . . and who abide in him as branches in the vine tree , iohn . except we say no believers , even dissolved members , and such as live in the church of rome by faith , and yet are afraid to confess , are not one with god , by faith , because they are not members of the single congregation . . no more can it be said , we are all one , as touching the nature of ordinances and seals , so we beleeve . but so iudas , magus , and a congregation of these is the body of christ their head . give scripture for that . . not the single congregation only , but also all these of divers congregations . who eat one bread , being many , are one body , cor. . . by our brethrens grant . . this is an union by institution , conditional , and actu primo : but the text speaks of a real union by faith and the spirit , cor. . . . by this interpretation , when paul saith the body is one , he meaneth a generick body ; and the particular congregations are subjective parts , suitable to the whole : now it is unconceivable to know how congregations are eyes , and ears , and organs to congregations , except there be an integral whole body , which they deny : nor do we think that congregations are organs , in the sense that apostles or teachers are organs to watch officially over congregations : but otherwise the elders of congregations are official organs , and overseers to the associate congregations . . it is only an elegant allegory , and holdeth only in the particulars for which it is brought , especially in organical care and sympathy , to be grieved , and suffer with suffering members , and to rejoice with the honoured members , cor. . . rom. . , . and . congregations are visible members one of another , in regard of eminency of gifts , holiness and zeal . as paul , cor. . , , . cor. . . iames beheaded , acts . iohn was eminent for suffering , rev. . what eusebius , ierome , say of iames the son of alpheus called iustus , thrown over the pinacle of the temple , simon of canaan crucified under trajanus : prove they dying for the truth , not as apostles , but as eminent witnesies , edified by their gifts a●d zeal the whole catholick church . peter and paul were martyred at rome , andrew crucified in achaia , matthew beheaded in ethiopia , bartholomew in armenia , simon zelotes in britain . the eminency and learning of the martyr cyprian , athana●ius his soundness in the faith against arrians , epiphanius against the heresies of his time , nazianzen against the heresie of apollinaris , basilius against the heresie of eunomius : hilarius , ambrose instrumental against arrians , augustine against pelagians , donatists : and huge multitudes of famous instruments through the catholick church , prove , that they were not eminent as members only of a single congregation , but that congregations in their eminent members are organs , members and parts of the catholick integral church visible . for all these were more visible in their times , for the good of the catholick body , then of a part or single independent congregation . . organs as organs are onely and principally for the proper functions and operations and good of that body whereof they are organs onely , the eye to see for that body : and should the eye of iohn see for peter , paul , and thousands of individual men , it should not be the eye of peter onely : no more can apostles who see for all the churches , mat. . . gal. . . cor. . . eph. . , , . and such as have the gift of tongues and miracles to speak to all nations in their own language , for the planting of the gospel , be set as eyes and organs , to see and watch for a single congregation where the gospel is received and believed already , and where ordinarily they speak one language . . the absurd inconsistency of mr. h. is clear in his interpretation ; all the members of the body being many , are one body , that is , one genere , for the genus exists and acts in the particular kindes , pag. . so paul must teach us logick , and oneness metaphysical here , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which scripture teacheth us not . sure , here it is not taught , for the oneness here is in christ , v. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . in one spirit of christ , v. . in one common office of love , to work every one for another , and the use of another , v. , , . in one sympathy and fellow-feeling of affection , that one member suffer and rejoyce accordingly with another , v. . . ver. . the eye cannot say to the hand , i have no need of thee . by mr. h. his interpretation , one church independent of boston can say , i have no member● need , no organical-need of hartford church , and so the gloss of mr. h. contradicts the holy ghost . it will not help what our brethren say , one congregation hath need of another , for rebuking , teaching , counselling . . for a papist , an heathen idolater stands in need of a christian to rebuke and convince him of his idolatry , but it s no member-need such as paul meaneth ; for papists , heathen idolaters , and a sound christian , are not fellow-members of one and the same visible body of christ baptized by one spirit , of which paul speaketh , ver . , , , &c. iohn blinde hath need of thomas his eyes to lead him , but that is not member-need , or vital body-organical-need , for then the eyes of thomas should be organs and members of iohn ; it s onely extrinsecal need . so that yet every congregation must say to another , i the congregation of boston have no need of thee my sister , or of any congregation on earth , in the sense of the holy ghost , cor . as one member of the body hath need of another , the head of the feet , for i am a complete independent body , having no member-need of any sister church on earth . . if one congregation stand in member need of all the congregations of jew and gentile baptized unto one body , cor. . , , , , , , . to tender the supper upon occasion to them and their members , as scripture , cor. . , . and our brethren teach ; and stand in need of the church-praying , church-praising , church confirmation by pastoral teaching of eminent teachers , and of church suffering , &c. by martyrdome and otherwise ; then must that congregation be a visible member with all visible congrega●ions on earth , and , by good logick , all the congregations on earth are one integral catholick visible church . . if the apostle here condemn a schism and rent , not from one single congregation onely , but from the body of jews and gentiles baptized into one spirit , ver . , . & . from the churches of galatia , gal. . from all churches , iude v. . and commend union with all churches , because of one faith , one lord , one baptism , eph. . , , , . then he supposes they are one body . cyprian b. of carthage , cornelius b. of rome , justly excommunicated novatus , denying mercy to them that fell : ergo , those great churches made one visible body , and the novatians were not schismaticks , because they separated from one single congregation ; but , saith socrates , they hindred the churches from union . augustine and optatus melivit . and the fathers make the donatists schismaticks in separating from the catholick church , and denying there was any church but their own in one part of africa . see pet. martyr learnedly disputing about schism ; and calvin . see aug. and opt. melivitan . . it s true ( saith mr. h. ) of all congregations , that the members do and should care one for another . ans. and this ( ) i bring for one argument , if this gloss of mr. h. remove all member-care and all organical-care of suffering and joy , such as is betwixt the members of the same body , from congregations toward all other congregations , as toward their fellow-members , and limit member care , and member fellow-feeling , to only members of the same congregation : then this gloss must contradict the holy ghost , cor. . . and whether one member suffer , all the members suffer with it , or one member be honoured , all the members rejoyce with it : for this gloss saith , i the church of boston , complete and independent within my self , care not with member care for all the congregations on earth , though they utterly perish ; nor do i rejoyce with the fellow-feeling joy of fellow-members , at the honour and spiritual good of all the congregations on earth . sure this doctrine cannot be of god , which is so contrary to scripture ; for that was not typical in the old testament , that the members of the jewish church should sorrow and rejoyce with members of that covenanted nation , as with those m●mbers of the same body ; as david , psal. . . & . , , , , & . . moses , exod. . . heb. . , . mordecai and esther , esth. . , . ver . , , . cap. , . and the captive people , psal. . , , , , . and ieremiah , cap. . , , . ezekiel , cap. . . & . . daniel , cap. , , , &c. but we are not to mourn with those that mourn , nor to rejoyce with those that rejoyce , as rom. . , with a fellow-feeling affection , as with members of the same visible body , though their weal and woe be most visible to us , as their church and saintship is , except with those onely who are members of the same independent congregation , for they are not of the body of which we are members : as the body of socrates feels no member pain when the finger of iohn is cut off . . there is a body to be gathered into the unity of faith , and of the knowledge of the son of god , a body to be glorified , eph. . . now this is the catholick body of christ , and the lords end why he gave apostles , prophets and doctors , till we be all glorified ; and this church is visible , because gathered and edified by a ministry , they are the visible church which is fed by ministers . the church built upon the rock , against which the gates of hell cannot prevail , can be no single congregation , for the gates of hell prevail against the single congregation ; therefore it must be the catholick church which only continues to the end . and this church is visible , for to the ministers thereof are the keyes given to open and shut the kingdom of heaven by the word preached , seals and censures , matth. . ergo , there is a catholick integral militant church visible . if christ reign by the preached word , seals and censures , over the kingdoms of the world , rev. . . over the nations , isa. . , . psal. , . psal. . , . psal. . , , . psal. . , , , , &c. psal. . , . psal. . , , . and have a visible government in the house of david , isa. . . over the earth , isa. . , , . from sea to sea , psal. . &c. then is there a catholick integral visible church : but the former is true . obj. all our divines say it is a popish tenet , that the catholick church is visible : our divines acknowledge no church visible , but only a particular church . ans. mr. hudson a learned and godly man reaps so cleanly , that i shall not cast any sickle into his field , no● is there need . . the papists contend for a catholick visible church , to set their man of sin over it : this church includeth ( some of them say ) purgatory , and heaven , and hell , of both which he bears the keys . salmeron , cornel , à lapide , they may be loosed that are under the earth by keys , as members of the body . he gives ( saith cornelius à lapide ) pardons to the dead ( invisible members indeed ) not by way of juridical absolution , for the dead are no longer subjects on earth , but by way of suffrage . b●llarmin proves from pet. cluniacens . that the dead in purgatory are members of the catholick church . and the pope ( saith bellarmin ) as the chief dispenser of the treasures of the church , may bestow upon those in purgatory , bona opera poenalia quae in thesauro sunt , the good works of the godly done by way of suffering . in this the catholick church cannot be visible . . the papists contend for a catholick church visible , such as we believe to be the catholick church in the apostles creed . so bellarmin makes the name of catholicks , and the name of christians all one , and the catholick church a tree from which , through divers times and ages , branches have been cut . and so must be , as rodericus de arriaga , catholick , extending it self all the world over in divers ages and times . ad. tannerus , the church is called catholick for the universality of the doctrine , and the universality of time , from the beginning of the world to the end , enduring ●or ever ; and for the universality of the place . now they make the pope the head and chief pastor of this church catholick . d. whitaker saith , the catholick church contains not only the church of our time , but the patriarchs , prophets , apostles , and all the saints which have been , are , or shall be to the end ; and is this church which is made up of the churches of these times visible . these monks must be exceeding sharp sighted ( saith anton. sadeel ) who see this church , and see the apostles and martyrs in heaven . . nor hath mr. h. cause to cast this signification of visible , that it is taken for conspicuous and glorious . nor is it worthy the refuting , that he ●aith that bellarmin distinguisheth visible and conspicuously glorious ; for he must split a hair of the head , as to its latitude , who can distinguish bellarmins fifteen notes : many of his own side reduce them to a fewer number . . conspicuity of glory is but visibility in such and such ways , as amplitude and multitude all the world over ; visibility in glory of preaching , of working miracles , and victory over their enemies , and external prosperity , which are things most visible , and not done in a corner . . their own men speak not , but as mr. hudson doth , the jesuits of rhemes an. . on matth. . explain this conspicuity , the light of the world , and city on a mountain , and candle upon a candlestick , signifieth the clergy and whole church , which must needs be visible to the world. see how d. fulk and mr. cartwright answers them . malderus a bish. antwer . profess . lov. in . de virtu . theol. de obj. fidei disp . . a● . . q. . the catholicks yield that the church is not ever aequè conspicuam , alike conspicuous , res. ad . habet tamen suas proprietates visibiles , it hath its visible properties , true miracles , works of holiness , antiquity , visible succession , perseverance on the rock : and this is all one as to be conspicuous and visibly glorious . gregor . de valentia tom. . in . disp . . q. . de obj. fidei punct . . . propriet . p. , . the church is not adeo conspicua , that it may be seen with the eyes , but yet it may evidenter omni seculo conspici , be evidently in every age seen , known , and pointed out by the finger , as a city on a mountain , matth. . as the sun in the heaven , psal. . and disp . . q. , punct . . pag. , . he proves the glory of miracles , and other the like , make the church of rome , and not of sectaries ( as he names us ) to be visibly known to all the world . and tannerus tom. . de fide , spe , q. . dis . . dub . . n. . insignibus quibusdam notis inter omnes alios coetus eminet , its conspicuous and glorious above all other societies , by these properties , that it is one , . holy , . catholick in doctrine , time , places . and causabon . in epistola ad cardinalem baronium . olim ecclesia catholica similis civitati supra montem positae nullo pacto dubia erat , sed nota omnibus , perspicua , certa , longè latèque per orbem diffusa , sub imperatoribus florens , quorum dominatio ab ortu ad occasum , à septentrione ad meridiem porrigebatu● — at distractionem imperii postea secuta est distractio ecclesiae catholicae , ex illo tempore ecclesia catholica non desiit esse quidem , sed minus illustris esse coepit . so iunius disp . theolo . . th . it may be there is no particular church publicè nota , publickly known on earth , but that all have losed their external splendor . and what this differs from conspicuity and glory let mr. h. or any man shew : and what glory and conspicuity is in the christian churches , and what sea-ebbings and flowings that glory hath , read ( though all be not to be believed which some say ) philip nicolai . l. . de regno christ. &c. bellarmin de notis eccles. l. . c. . io. gerard. to . . de eccles . c. . sect . . n. , , . euseb. l. . hist. c. . cyprian . de unit . eccles. tertullian . contra iudaeos c. . vega. in opus . de fid . & oper . praesertim . c. . acosta iesuit . de procuratione iudorum salutis . . it s not to be passed , that our divines condemn a visible catholick church only under one pastor , the bishop of rome , the ministerial head and catholick pastor of pastors over all the catholick church on earth , and taking upon him to be pastor of pastors : yea , and the church of rome is perpetually visible , and ( saith valentia ) the pope is the only head of this catholick visible church . the hereticks ( saith suarez ) deny in the catholick church ( subjected to the pope , as the visible head ) proprietates ullas visibiles , any visible properties by which it may be known from the churches of satan . and therefore the church must be invisible — and therefore they deny omnem externam hierarchiam ecclesiae , caput visibile , regulam fidei animatam & visibilem , all the external sacred order of prelates , the visible head , the living and v●sible rule of faith . that visibility of a head catholic● , and visible body under that head we profess that we deny . now that the pope should be the only pastor of a church , which by no possibility he can see , and that he is the only feeder of such a flock , to him invisible : suppose he had the eyes of argu● ten thousand times , is that visibility of a church catholick , of a church diocesian , which we deny and detest ? but we deny not , but teach that the church is visible in a right sense . and . we teach that the catholick church militant on earth is visible in its parts , though it be not in its whole bulk and body all at once visible , as amesius , who also is in some points for this new way of independency . so the whole body of the heaven in both the hemispheres is visible when enlightned with the sun , yet is not the whole heaven all at once visible to any man living so the whole element of water is visible , not all at once , and yet is so visible in its parts , in the parts of the sea , rivers , floods , as it were non-sense to say such a part of the heaven , and of the sea , as in day light is obvious to our eyes , were simply invisible , in that sense , that we say the mystical body of the catholick church of sound believers is invisible , and believed , but not seen . . therefore the church catholick is . considered as comprehending all the families in heaven and earth , eph. . . heb. . , . col . . this is the most large catholick church consisting of elect men and angels . . the catholick church is that company of redeemed men for whom christ died , and it contains all that have been , are , or shall be , that are clarified and presented without spot or wrinkle , sanctified by the washing of water by the word , eph. . . husbands love your wives , as christ also loved the church — . that he might present it to himself a glorious church , &c. and to this is the place eph. . , . referred . for which see calvin , beza , zanchius on the place , and especially solidly learned d. d. boyd of trochrigge , learned and sharp mr. paul baines in their learned commentaries on ephes. . , . hence augustine , it contains all the sanctified ones . but we do not now contend with papists concerning the catholick church in its latitude of these two acceptions . as . whether the elect angels , and the glorified in heaven , and these that are to be members of the catholick visible church , but are not yet born , are visible members ? . whether the pope be visible head , and have the power of the keyes to feed with word , censures , and seals , the elect angels , the patriarchs , prophets , martyrs , &c. who are now preferred in glory ? . whether the church catholick in that latitude containing such noble members , can erre in a general councel , or out of it , or can erre in fundamentals , and cease to be a church ? as to the latter acceptions , our divines condemn papists , who tell us that the pope is the visible head of the visible catholick church : we say we believe there is a catholick church , but visible it is not . and neither mr. hudson , nor i , nor any of ours do dispute for a catholick integral visible church , or for a catholick body of presbyters and officers that are , have been , and now are glorified , and shall be born , as if they were the first formal subject of the keyes . mr. h. loses his time in blotting paper to make us dispute any such question , and to bring in popish inferences against us in that . but . there is an integral catholick visible church , to and for which eph. . , , . cor. . , , &c. the lord hath given all his ordinances , as by succession of ages it existeth on earth . see the accurate confession of faith. see judicious dispute of the professors of leyden by anton. walaeus worthy to be read of all , in which they solidly observe , that many confound the particular church , and the visible , and invisible , and universal church which are indeed to be distinguished , for the universal integral church is in its own way visible . . in its parts , as is said before . . in the community of profession of the same faith , both in preaching , confession , and writings , so that it hath no sense to limit visibility to one single congregation , as our brethren doe . for our eyes may as well see two congregations , and many to be visible saints , and to worship in a church-way the same lord iesus , as we see the members of our own one congregation . . whether synods be for counsel and advice only , as our brethren say ? or . for pastoral teaching , and dogmatick determining of truths , for edification , as mr. cotton contrary to his brethren teacheth . or . for jurisdiction : it is against common sense , to deny that the integral catholick church is visible in synods , whether occumenical , or national , or provincial ; for the representative is as visible as the congregation . and whereas our divines say , that the church is invisible , because faith which is the specifick and constitutive form of the church , is invisible , and known only to god the searcher of hearts ; they are not so to be expounded , as if this were their argument to prove that the catholick church is invisible , and the congregation only visible . nor do they use such an argument for such a conclusion ; for the true faith of a congregation is as invisible and known to god only ; yea , the faith of one single member is as latent and invisible to the eye of sense , and more latent then the faith of the whole catholick visible church : for faith is perswaded there is a visible church , for the scripture saith , that christ hath a seed : but the scripture sayes not that this or that man , or that this congregation hath saving faith . it s true , the profession of the catholick church is , because of the universality , of saints remoter from our senses , and so less visible ; which hinders not that to be true which our divines say , that in time of great persecution , the churches knew not one another , as saith augustine , who also compareth her to the moon , which is often ●id , as in the time of elias . and ierom tells that the christian world sighed under arrianism . the pope by cruel wars banished those called waldenses , albigenses , pauperes de lugduno picardi ; until wickliff rose there , was ( saith d. fulk ) about the time of . years , great darkness . see cartwright . nor is it possible for mr. h. to prove , that when our divines do say , particular churches are visible , that they mean mr. h. his particular independent congregations only : he is a great stranger in our divines writings , who knows not , that from matth. . tell the church , they prove that a general councel hath juridical power to censure peter , or the pope . since learning was , it was never counted a point of popery ( except all our reformers be papists ) which mr. h. citeth from turrianus , if it be spoken in thesi ( but he applies it to the visible body under the pope in hypothesi ) for it is but what beda and others say from scripture , eph. . , . but as papists in thest speak soundly in the attribute of omnipotency : so here , when in hypothest applying the doctrine of omnipotency to their miracles , to transubstantiation , to adoration of images , they vanish in vain speculations . nor can we deny , but some of our own have gone too far : one in saying , that the churches of the apostles were not so numerous , but they met all in one place , and that the church of alexandria , hierapolis , ierusalem , were congregations that met in one place : they would explain their mind in that point more circumstantiately , if they were to speak thereof again . but their purpose is in the point of prelacy to prove a true conclusion of p. bains , that the scripture gives no warrant to a diocesan church , that is , to or congregational churches to be fed by word , seals and censures , by one little monarch called a prelate : whereas the church fed so , as is said , is a single congregation meeting in the same place , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . . there cannot be an ordinary exercise of the keys by the weekly converse of the officers of or churches so many miles separated one from another . . it s true , eusebius in divers places calls the churches of alexandria , hierapolis , &c. par●●cias , congregational meetings ; and ignatius writes to the church of ephesus , that they should convene 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and tertullian saith , the churches of his time met in one body . all which is true of the churches distributively . but cyprian shall resute them , who says , the church of carthage was one congregation . scripture , reason , fathers , shall quickly speak against them , who shall say the church of rome , of constantinople , were one congregational church under cornelius and chrysostome . chap. vii . ordination , not election of the people , gives the essentials to officers . . the method and order of ordination and election . . the place tim. . . touching the laying on of hands of the presbytery , is opened . . the necessity of laying on of hands . . designation to a certain flock is not essential to a pastor . mr. h. ordination , according to the minde of mr. r. and his method , as preceding the election of the people , doth not give the essentials to the outward call of a minister . ans. ordo causandi non tollit ipsam c●●salitatem . if plate say the soul was created before the body , this will not prove but body and soul are essential causes of man. so because ordination administred mr. r. his way and method gives not the essentials to a minister ; this by no logick can cashier ordination from an essential cause thereof . mr. h. luke saith , acts . first they chose steven , ver . . then the apostles laid on hands , ver . . if not any but those who are elected by the people should be ordained , and all such who were so chosen could not be refused , then to ordain before choice , is neither to make application of the rule , or a communicating of the right in an orderly manner . but the first is plain , the apostles would not take that soveraignty in ordaining elders , therefore they would not allow their scholars to arrogate to call so , acts . . when they had created them elders in every church , ( the geneva , when they had ordained elders by election of the people ) and prayed , and fasted , they commended them to god , &c. then the officers had a full call , and a full night to the execution of their office before laying on of hands , which is not necessary ; and must not the setting in order things amiss be done by titus , i. e. the officers and the church also ? tit. . . ans. . luke saith not they were elect called officers with a full call and full right , before the apostles laid on hands : for mr. r. saith they were chosen , that is , nominated as godly men before the apostles laid on hands ; as david and saul were both chosen , set apart by god before unction and choice of the people , but they were not formally chosen kings , having full royalty , while as yet the people knew them not from other men : but the seven men were not formally and completely chosen as officers , before ordination , and so had neither right , nor official full right to be their deacons , while the apostles ordained them : for this rite ( say beza , bullinger , calvin , gualther , diodati , english divines ) used in sacrifices , was used in creating of officers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ver . . to choose is a far lower word , as cyprian saith , it noteth pl●bis approbationem : leo , con sensum plebis : calvin , the approbation of the people . what then is the apostles and officers part ? authority official there must be , laying on of hands ( saith mr. h. ) was not of necessity required : yea , but its safer to believe the holy ghost , it was done ; then it was no unnecessary complement , the cup was given to the people by the apostles , cor. . true , ( say papists as mr. h. ) it was not of necessity required . . ( though there be a wide difference in the matter ) if none should be ordained but those onely that are first chosen , ( as formally and completely as their fixed 〈◊〉 ) then election goes before ordination . mr. r. denies the connexion , and desires mr. h. to prove it : yea , the contrary follow● ; ergo , the people cannot appropriate the man to be their fixed officer , nor consent he be theirs only ( and this to me is only formal election ) until he first be ordained an officer . the sick man cannot choose a. b. to be his physician , until he first be a physician , nor can a scholar choose c. d. to be his teacher of philosophy , until c. d. he first a philosopher . . the assumption is false : but all such who are so chosen could not be refused ; then must the elders be necessitated to lay hands on nicolaus , though they know him to be the head of that unclean sect , of which epiph●nius , ir●…s , d●roth●●s , t●rtullian judge him to be leader : why ? the people have chosen him , then the elders must lay on hands suddenly on an heretical teacher , a wolf : why ? they cannot refuse him ( saith mr. h. ) for , the people hath chosen him . what tyranny of conscience is here ? . this calling of the deacons , and consequently of all other officers , if we suppose that the office was instituted ( as now it was ) by mr. h. his way , might well have been without either presence or acting of either apostles or officers ( for saith mr. h. there was no necessity of laying on of hands ) by the onely multitude , and i require one scripture for the calling of one officer without the concurrent acting of apostles and officers , by the sole people , and can shew warrants for the presence and acting of apostles and officers in the calling of officers , especially those acts . , . & . . & . . tit. . , , , &c. tim. . . & . . tim. . . tim. . , , , . revel . . . ver . . acts . , , . & . , , , . . be it as the geneva reading saith ( as it is not ) yet as mr. seaman well observes , and calvin saith it also with beza , the officers had their official votes , and are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as stephanus , mr. leigh , theodor. balsamo , zonaras and bellarmine grants it ; and it proves , that the onely people created not officers , ergo , by neither this place , nor by any other scripture , could they give them full right to their office . see amesius and calvin . hence if the officers by these places have suffrages and votes in ordaining of officers , as why should the holy ghost bid prophets separate paul and barnabas for such a ministry , and command timothy to lay hands suddenly on no man , tim. . . but on faithful men , that are able to teach others , tim. . . tit. . , , . if officers have no official work in creating officers , but only to choose them , which any brother or woman may do ? then it is not needless that officers concur to create officers ; and if it be not required of necessity that they concur , it must be idle work both here and in the cited places , that they concur , but because they did concur . i have as good reason , that the peoples concurring in choosing was needless , though they did choose , as mr. h. hath cause to say , the officers concurrence is needless in ordaining , though in truth the word of god require both as necessary . lastly , for the setting in order things , since these must be things of jurisdiction also , we say juridical acts by no scripture are ascribed to the whole church , except by the church be understood the church of rulers , the rest only consenting : which is our mind . mr. h. arg. . that place tim. . . favours not mr. r. for ordination by officers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , . notes gracious dispensations accompanying salvation , heb. . . or freely given gifts , cor. . , . cor. . . . it notes offices , rom. . . . the grace of free justification , rom . . now it s rather meant of grace out habilities which timothy received by way of prophesie , by which he was fitted to that extraordinary work of an evangelist : the office is not first attended , but the gifts with an eye to the office . . it s harsh ; forget not the office that is in you : a man is more fitly said to be in the office , an office is adjunctum adhaerens , not qualitas inhaerens . . the parallel place is tim. . . stir up the gift which is given thee by the laying on of my hands : a man is not said to stir up his office . ans. there is nothing here to weaken mr. r. for . it was spare time to leave out more necessary significations of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the gift , and to seem to put upon some a dream of giving the grace of justification in the blood of christ , by prophesie , by laying on of the hands of the presbytery . , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by , is not prefixed to the laying on of the hands of the presbytery : but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is prefixed to the laying on of hands : neglect not the gift given thee by prophecy , then he addeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with ( not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by ) the laying on of the hands of the presbytery . so that with mr. h. his leave , timothy received no gracious hability by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery , as far as this text speaks , so that the prophesie was extraordinary , tim. . . and the gift might be so also , and the laying on of the ●ands of paul , tim. . . was of another nature , and there he useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and this was known to be extraordinary , for the giving of the holy ghost , act. . . which magus affected , v. . it is true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but rarely , act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. . , so the laying on of the hands , may be ordinary , and the gift given by prophesie , as calvin , beza , paren● , piscator , d●…i , cruciger , the gift declared to be given thee by prophetical revelation , tim. . . as paul and barnabas were sent to the gentiles by the command of the spirit . so paul exhorts timothy neither to neglect the one nor the other , so neglect not , but ( ●s d●… ) exercise carefully thy calling of an evangelist , revive and strengthen the gifts that thou hast received , especially since thou hast received imposition of hands from the colledge of elders . . it is harsh ( saith mr. h. ) forget not the office in thee . didoclavius told him thus , but what then ? a man is said in our language to be in office ; but it s both new , and will but poorly prove , therefore it is harsh in the greek , and it is known there be harsh phrases in both the septuagints , and in the new testament , and that neither of them is the most pure of that language , and there is a heavenly eloquence in all scripture . mr. h. whether by elders be meant , the elders of many , or of one congregation , i could never learn. didoc● . . ans. then this place shall say nothing for the eldership of an independent congregation ; to which mr. h. gives after an official power dogmatick , and doctrinal , to hear witnesses and pronounce a sentence of excommunication , which the congregation can no more oppose , then the word of god : and i hombly desire another place for such a new judicature : for sure men and women both have the judgement of discretion to oppose all errors . . there was a colledge of elders , act. . & act. & act. . & act. . at the ordaining of officers , and weighty affairs of the churches either must mr. h. warrant by scripture , that there is such a like judicature in every independent congregation , which ( say they ) may consist of seven ( and that is unpossible ) or that he shall be at a low ebbe to prove such an ordination of officers in their churches as is in the word . as for imposition of hands ; to me it is commanded in the word , where the right way that it be not done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , suddenly , is charged upon timothy , before god and his son iesus christ , tim. . , . yet not so as it must be so necessary , necessitate medii , as it must be a null , and no ordination where it is wanting . . it must be a rite of designation of the person to the office , but no sacramental rite of obsignation of grace , as papists make it a sacrament . . mr. h. fails , who makes it no command contrary to tim. . , . . this place tim. . . so streights papists , that bellarmin makes the presbytery a company of bishops ; and so cor. à lap. but cajetan . vatablus , maldonat . estius , are more equitable to the text then mr. h. lyran. makes the presbytery to be bishops . mr. h. to give the essentials to timothy an evangelist by imposition of hands of presbyters that are inferiour to evangelists , that are superiour and extraordinary , is beyond the power of presbyters . ans. the same is objected by papists , and by prelaticals , as tilenus and others . what ? will mr. h. determine whether timothy was ordained by the presbytery an evangelist ( for in that case his argument which he borrowed , hath nerves ) or a presbyter ? for some prelatical , men say , he was twice ordained : nor can his argument stand , except upon the popish pillar ; a great apostle or bishop cannot be blessed by a lower presbyter . so that the presbytery that laid hands on timothy must be bishops or only apostles : so say the jesuites , bellarmin , menochus , cor. à lap. so lyranus . see the answer of didoclavius . . his own men , say the brethren , that are lower then officers , make , unmake officers ; the people , act. . ( say they ) have a hand in creating , that is , in chusing matthias ( for that is their creating ) an apostle . ananias laid hands on paul , acts . prophets , on paul and barnabas , to undergo an extraordinary charge to preach to the gentiles , act. . mr. h. here as often deviseth a contradiction , that then the same call must be both mediate and ordinary , and immediate and extraordinary , saith he : but if mediate be taken ( as it must be ) for that in which men have an intervening hand , there is new logick , but no contradiction . parker saith , there is of man something , and much immediately from god here , as the peoples praying , and casting of lots in matthias his calling , and yet he is an immediately called apostle . so in pauls call , act. . in the call of paul and barnabas , act. . . it s now absurd to say that an evangelist , an apostle , is lower then a whole colledge of presbyters . see worthy mr. gillespie . what means mr. h. to object that as a paradox which mr. r. saith , a. b. is made a pastor indefinitly , and the pastor of such a people only ? and here is a new contradiction also , for a b. is made a physician indefinitely , habitu , actu primo , to all , and by choice , and compact , he is made a physician fixedly only to such a corporation : so is the pastor a. b. here is as poor a shift , the man expoundeth scripture in his own congregation as a pastor , but in another , or in his own house , as a gifted man. let him answer his own words : ever whom a pastor hath no power , ●ver such he can do no pastoral act , for that is an act of principal power : but to administer the supper of the lord to these of another congregation is a pastoral act , and that a pastor may do to these of another congregation . so mr. h. so mr. cotton , so their own discipline save this contradiction . it s too nea● popery to preach , in the chair the pope cannot erre , as a private dostor he may erre : so when a man preacheth as a pastor to the congregation , the members can no more oppose him then they can oppose the word of god ; and when they hear the same man expound the same scripture in his family , they are no more to submit to his doctrine , though the same which he spake in the chair , then he is to submit to their doctrine : for he preacheth as no pastor in his own house , but as a gifted man , saith mr. h. mr. h. ordination and election ( saith mr. r. ) are all one by the brethrens way . mr. h. ans. we never said they were all one 's ans. true , you never said it , but you say that election gives all the essentials to an officer , and destroy ordination , and make election to be all , and so you make election all one with that which to us is ordination , and that is mr. r. his meaning . mr. h election rightly ordered by the rule of christ gives the essentials to an officer . arg. . pastor and people , shepherd and flock are relatives , but relatives are mutual causes one of another ; a pastor before a people chuse him , is a husband without a wife . see amesius . ans. . pastor and flock , i. e. a single congregat on ( for this only mr. h. means ) are not adequate relatives , for a pastor is referred to all members of other congregations to whom he is a pastor , and to whom he may tender , as a pastor , the lords supper , cor. . . and is granted : ergo , a pastor is a pastor to multitudes of members of other congregations , who never chose him : so that a man that hath but sipped on logick , a● mr. h. must thus argue , a pastor chused and made a pastor is relatum , and referred to his own single flock , all and only chusing and making him a pastor : in which there is no sip of truth . he is not a pastor to them only , as is said , for he acts as a pastor . . dogmatickly , sure and what he sayes in the synod binds not , onely because it is gospel ; but ( saith mr. cotton ) also because it is taught by a minister , for his calling sake : ( as christ , who so receiveth you , receiveth me ) the associate churches , who never made him a pastor . . nor are all his flock , whom yet he feeds with word , censures , and seals , to wit , women members of the flock , and children , and servants , the far larger part of the flock , three for one , the chusing correlate : poor souls they are as passive in acts of jurisdiction to make and unmake pastors as brute sheep ; nor can the argument be from feeder and fed simply , sheep as sheep made not their shepherd , but from feeder and the fed chusing , creating and marrying their feeder and husband ; and should not mr. h. say as true , solomon is a married husband to three hundred women , and yet two hundred fifty of them had no causative influence , gave never consent nor oath to accept him as their husband . so neither can the pastor be referred to two hundred and fifty women , aged children , and servants , as a part of his flock creating him a husband and feeder ; for the fifty males did make him a pastor , and they only . . amesius sayes , the man made a pastor without a flock , is a husband without a wife . and the prelates did wickedly in so doing , for they were but hirelings going up and down to preach for hire , whereas the work requires a fixed labourer to every corner of the vineyard : but it s non causâ pro causâ , and no sip of logick , ergo , every pastor is so referred to his own flock , as husband and wife , so mutual consent made him a husband to them only , and a pastor to no other , and them a spouse and wife to him only . but should the church loose some men from their fixed charges , and send them to visit and water many planted churches with the word and seals , these men should be lawful and edifying pastors , not husband without wives . see amesius , who proves classis and synods to be lawful from , . the law of nature . . from common equity . but to return to what i had almost passed . if the laying on of hands be no specificating act of an office , because it is used in other performances , as in the sending of paul and barnabas to preach to the gentiles , act. . then shall water not be essential to baptism , nor drinking to the lords supper , nor blessing sacramental in that supper , because in levitical washings , in the feasts sacred , in the passeover , in praying for a blessing to the word preached , all these were used . it s loose logick , a genere ad speciem , the question is not of laying on of hands in general , but of a certain kind and species of laying on of hands by way of prayer and designation . mr. r. knows there be divers kinds of laying on of hands . . nor do i say that the rite is essential to ordination , but of the necessity of before . . suarez and stapleton so argue with mr. h. from an extraordinary command . . the spirit speaks from heaven , act. . separate me saul , &c. . the lord names two men . . he designs their work : there is here no election of the people , saith calvin . so mr. h. paul was called to be an apostle before , act. . and this is for me . though they were apostles before , the lord will not have us to think imposition of hands a needless toy : but the wise lord will have their calling by this solemn subscription of the church , to be sealed , saith calvin . as by a solemn symbole of consecration ; so saith gualther , and mr. h. is mistaken : we use imposition of hands , as both the bohemian and wittenberg confession teach ; and it s not to be found in the text , that grace was given to paul and barnabas thereby , but that it was used as an ordinary r●te with praying , as the presbytery doth , verse . and when they had fasted and prayed , and laid their hands on them , they sent them away . see mr. seaman . yea , suppose it be granted that saul was an apostle before , act. . yet . he was not such a designed apostle , to wit , of the gentiles until now . . nor did the church their part until now , that they laid their hands on them . . the english divines and diodati think they were not owned by the church as apostles until now . and i humbly doubt if they were called apostles until now , act. . mr. h. if a pastor may have all his essentials without a certain flock , then may he be a pastor without it : as the ring is completed in the goldsmiths shop , its ready for any buyer . ans. mr. best and mr. h. both make the difference , that the apostle is a pastor to all the world , but the pastor is ●●ed to a certain congregation . then have they answered themselves ; the apostle hath all the essentials of a true pastor without a certain flock : here is the ring in the shop ready for all congregations . now the apostle and ordinary pastor differ not essentially as pastors in the latitude of preaching to all congregations , and to one single congregation , as the acts of preaching the same christ , and of baptizing in an apostle , and in an ordinary pastor , are of the same species and nature . mr. h. and mr. best will have them to be pastors different in nature ; why ? then but their gospels and seals , the formal objects of their calling , must differ in nature , as indeed they make pastors of divers congregations to differ in nature , and so as many congregations different in nature , as many gospels different in nature . the pastor is tied ( saith he ) to a certain congregation , out of which he is not to exercise pastoral acts . but is not the apostle a pastor , and an excellent one to preach and tender the seals , as well as the pastor ? . why saith he not , ( as he ought , if he speak suitably to his own principles ) it is not lawful for him to exercise pastoral acts without his own congregation , for its adultery so to do ? and so its adultery to him to tender the supper to those of another congregation , contrary to mr. h. and his brethren . nor can be open and shut the doors of the kingdom in pastoral preaching to his own flock , and to twenty of other congregations , except one and the same act of preaching pastorally be a valid pastoral act to his own flock , and twenty times no valid pastoral act , but an act of a gift or christian counsel which an unbaptized pagan ( so he have a talent and utterance ) or a woman in a private chamber may also tender . we may without offence crave a warrant from scripture for such an unheard novelty . yea , it ought to be proved , and not nakedly told us , that this congregation is essential to this a. b. their own pastor ; for this or these sick persons are not essential to this physician . . paul preaches the gospel , administers the seals an hundred times to an hundred formed visible churches ; do these pastoral acts vary their nature into an hundred new species and natures , because all the hundred churches are different in species and nature ? and must there be hundreds thousands of gospel-seals , keys of the kingdom , all different in species and nature ? for so our brethren vary churches . mr. h. we allow of no pastors ordained without a certain flock ( saith mr. r. ) i reply ( saith mr. h ) quid verba sudiam , cum videam facta ? for if a pastor may have all his essentials without a certain flock , then he may be pastor without a flock . ans. mr. r. allows no individnum vagum , nor a prelatical deacon made a pastor by the prelate without any flock , nor knows our church of scotland any such . but i have before shewn , there may lawfu●ly , and to edification be ambulatory and ●●inerary shepherds sent both to feed and gather , or plant churches . . a pastor may have all his essentials without a certain flock belonging to his essence : a man hath his essentials without aptitude to laugh , which follows his essentials ; and snow hath all its essentials without whiteness : yet i say , i neither allow nor can yield that there is a man existent in the world , but he is apt to laugh , nor snow existent but it is white . but it follows not hence , that when the church calls men to the exercise of their pastoral calling , that they may lawf●lly ordain them all to labour in no certain flock , sure that would hinder edification , but will never prove that this flock is so essential to a. b their pastor , as the wife to the husband ; or that a. b. is married to this flock onely , as a. b. is married to this wife onely , and to none other , so as a. b. commits adultery if he celebrate the lords supper in another congregation nor his own . nor will it follow , that it is intrinsecally unlawful for a synod of new england to send gracious youths understanding in the language , ordain them pastors by laying on of hands of the elders , and by fasting and praying , instruct them to go and act as pastors among the savages , preaching and baptizing ; and their warrant is act. . and here are pastors without certain flocks . if any act. . say , the spirit gives a special command there , and names saul and barnabas , but it s not so here : i answer , there is without question something extraordinary , act. . nor are we with seekers ( too much ●ortified in their way by our brethrens doctrine ) to wait for the lords naming from heaven iohn , thomas to be preachers in such a place . but to me . the nearness to the savages , . the knowledge of their language ( as i suppose ) . their weak desire , or the professed not hating of the gospel , were equivalent to a command from heaven , go preach to the americans , and that in the capacity as proper pastors . mr. h. a pastor is onely a pastor of that flock ( saith mr. r. ) over which the holy ghost hath set him , by the authority of his church ; but yet so , as when he preacheth to the other congregation , he ceaseth not to be pastor , howbeit not the pastor of that flock . ans. we are then agreed : if a pastor be [ onely ] onely a pastor to that flock , then is he not a pastor so any beside , then can he do no pastoral acts to them . ans. great words are often small and weak arguments his last answer ( saith he ) yields the cause wholly — we are then agreed . mr. r. is not a whit agreed with either independency or the present question . if the pastor be ( onely ) onely the pastor ( fixed , proper , actu secundo , in the exercise of calling pastoral ) to that flock , then is he not a pastor ( actu primo , habitu , occasionally to act pastorally ) to any beside . it s false , and we are distant the whole breadth of a contradiction . if a physician be onely a fixed physician to colchester to attend their sick , by a compact between him and the city , then he ceaseth to be an occasional physician to any sick in the countrey , when the health of the inhabitants of that city can permit , so as he can exercise no acts of a physician to any beside : it follows not at all to be a pastor occasionally to all churches , and to be a fixed pastor ordinarily and by covenant to this flock , are most consistent . mr. h. that which the communion ( so mr. r. ) of sister-churches requires to be done , that pastors lawfully may do ( mr. r. ought in conscience to do . ) but that a pastor as a pastor may officiate ( to other congregations and their members , ( saith m. r. ) this the communion of churches require in the necessary absence of the pastor , to defend the flock from wolves . the assumption is denied , and left wholly destitute of proof . supply may be lent , in such cases , by christian counsel , and by mutual consociation of advice , though there be no expression of iurisdiction , nor can we be said to take away communion of churches , where god hath granted no right of communion . ans. mr. h. cuts and divides my arg. for it hath a demonstration of the truth of the assumption . christ hath established the communion of saints , and of all saints in specie , and of churches in church-praying one for another , church-praising one for another , eph. . . praying always with all prayer — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for all saints : but churches as churches are saints . mr. h. gives us the name of communion of saints by advice and counsel , which is the communion of pagans and saints ; for saints owe christian counsel and christian advice to pagans and idolaters . and mr. h. gives us this goodly divinity , god never granted any right of communion between churches therefore it cannot be taken away . hence one congregation owes no more church-communion to another , than to pagans ; contrary to their own express doctrine : for if the brethren hold a communion of divers members of divers churches in partaking of one lords supper at the same table , then must they hold a communion of churches as churches . but the former they held , as the words cited clear . mr. h. if ministers ( saith mr. r. in his second arg. ) may labour to convert unbelieving strangers , and to adde them to their flock , that they may enlarge christs kingdom , then may they exercise pastoral acts over and above others than those of their own charge . . divers congregations are to keep visible communion of exhorting , rebuking one another . ans. those that were no officers , but dispersed , yet preached the gospel , act. . apollos no officer edified those that believed , acts. . , . that these may be done where no pastoral acts are , is evident . ans. mr. h. is pleased to answer my arg. the proof is added where no need is , that which is feeble , false , that hath no shadow of truth , to wit , the consequence is not at all confirmed , nor any attempt made to that purpose . it s well known a fixed pastor in his own pulpit preaching to his own flock , hath in the same act been instrumental to adde to his own flock real converts . let the reader judge what truth it hath , that in the same numerical single act of teaching , the man acts both as a pastor , and as no pastor , but as apollos a private man onely , as mr. h. saith . . whether it be feeble or no that a pastor tenders the lords supper to one of another congregation ( which he may lawfully do , say our brethren * ) as a pastor ; if he tender it as a private man , i know how feebly mr. h. and all anabaptists and socinians can defend this : then there is a real truth in this , that a pastor may exercise pastoral acts to others than to those of his own charge . . it seems to me feeble , though the instances of the dispersed who preached , acts . and of apollos , acts . as private christians , and as no officers , were granted ( which to me is false ) therefore when a pastor in one and the same sermon and words , preaching to his own flock , converts one of his own flock and one of another flock , that be acts as an officer , and opens pastorally the gates of the kingdom of heaven to the one , and acts as no officer , as not sent of god , but as a private man to the other : ( except mr. h. maintain the socinian sending to preach ) i see not how mr. h. can here expede himself . . mr. h. will not say all that were scattered act. . ( for they were all scattered , except the apostles , ver . . ) did preach the gospel , for there were of them women , ver . . then some of them onely preached . and if mr. h. say they were not officers , mr. r. says they were officers , and that the extraordinariness of their condition , supplied the want of a church calling , and let mr. h. but attempt to bring a proof for it . . if nothing extraordinary was here , l●t mr. h. or any for him vindicate the place act. . from anabaptists , who alledge the same place act. . to destroy the standing ordinance of the ministery : and reade the judicious tractate of the ministers of london , of mr. collings . . i had rather believe oecumenius and chrysostome , who judge apollos to be a minister ; and far rather follow gualther , diodati , and calvin , who ●each , that apollos was a renowned minister , the successor and collegue of paul at corinth , cor. . . mr. h. not caring for these lights , without warrant of scripture determines apollos no officer , and so do many anabaptists with him . . nor is there any disease in my third arg. for take away church-rebuking , and church comforting , and pastoral acting of officers toward fellow-churches , as mr. h. expresly and in terminis doth , and turn all those into christian counsels and advices , which christians out of church-order , and women owe to those that are no churches , even to pagans : and you . take away all communion of church-talents , and church-gifts and graces , for the edifying by word or writ sister-churches . . you destroy all pastoral and official gifts to sister-churches in extreme necessity of ravenous wolves raging among them : for a pastor as a pastor must be able to convince gainsayers , tit. . , , . and suppose the officers of the church of sardis were sick and imprisoned , there is taken away all communion of pastoral talents to convince arrians , nicolaitans , the disciples of ebion and cerinthus , or to strengthen and heal backsliders . . the sister members of the mixt congregation , as private christians in their closets and houses , may pray for their sick sister , but it is unlawful for the church to put up any church-prayers or church-rebukes , let them perish a thousand times : is not the lord offended at this wicked selfishness ? but mr. r. saith , that one congregation hath no power over another , nor one classis over another . ans. he bids at all , that two parallel members , two parallel churches as perallel , are coordinate , and have no power juridical to excommunicate one another , for then one member iohn may excommunicate thomas , for ex communication and juridical court-power is not exercised by the church as the church , for then all and every church had power juridical of excommunication , which mr. r. will not yield , but it is exercised by such a church as hath power over its own members subordinate not coordinate : but this is nothing against me ; for church-power is wider than iuridical power to excommunicate : church-power includes church-preaching , church-hearing , church-praising , church-rebuking , church-exhorting , church-comforting , church-tendring of the seals . but church-power of excommunicating i● but a branch of all these . as also this is a wide mistake in mr. h. that he thinks , if a pastor have right to administer pastoral acts , there he hath pastoral power to challenge his right , and preach there where there are fixed pastors all the land over ; nay , he must for the actual exercise of his right have some providential call , as is clear christ saith , go teach all nations , baptizing them : that gives to peter , iohn , yea all the apostles , paul and others , right to be pastors to all the earth : yet it is clear , that for the actual exercise of that right , there is required a special call of god for the place ; as . peter and iohn could not preach to samaria , while god disposed so that the apostles sent them , hearing that they had received the gospel , acts . , . nor peter preach to the gentiles , . while he was warned by a vision , acts . . & . . nor . could paul and barnabas go and preach to the gentiles : nor . peter and paul go , the one to preach to the jews , the other to the gentiles , while they had a warrant from the spirit so to do , acts . , , , &c. gal. . , . nor . could paul forbear to go to bithynia , and go to macedonia to preach the gospel , act. . , , , , . without a warrant from god. upon the same ground , though a pastor called by the church to be a pastor , and be chosen by such a flock , be by his ordination made a pastor to all congregations , yet for the actual exercise thereof , he must have a call , or some choice or desire of the people ●o preach pastorally hic & nunc , and even as the apostles , who were called by christ , mat. . . to be pastors to all nations , yet could not hic & nunc , actu secundo , exercise their calling , but by direction of the spirit , as is said . and all congregations ( saith mr. h. ) may justly deny hi● leave to administer either seals or censures among them , and yet he is a complete officer . ans. it s a dream to say , a particular classis or presbytery hath called him , and yet they refuse him leave to administer seals and censures among them ; that is as much , as , they have called him , and they have not called him . we now in a constituted church , contend not for one who is ordained by the church a pastor to all nations , as mat. . without an eye to a certain society , countrey or flock , either as an ambulatory pastor ( as is said , for the care of spreading the gospel is not dead with the apostles , as seekers truth ) or as an ordinary fixed pastor , and their obstinacy to whom he offers the gospel , hinders him not to be a complete officer , as is clear mat . , , . luke 〈◊〉 . , , . mat. ● . , , . act. . , , . & . . & . . in many who refuse to hear and receive the apostles , who yet are the complete officers and ambassadors of christ. nor is it true , that whoever hath a pastoral power to preach , they have also a juridical power to censure the refulers to hear . the brethren will not stand to this by their own way . mr. h. the people may put a pastor out of his office , if scandalous and heretical ; ergo , they give him the office . the antecedent is proved , mat . . phil. . . beware of false teachers , beware of dogs . mr. r. they may reject him from being their pastor , but their power reaches not so far as to reject him from being no pastor . ans. then a species may be destroyed , and the general nature remains : he is not their pastor , and yet he is a pastor in general ; thomas or john is destroyed , and yet the general nature of thomas or john remains safe . ans. if independent government depend upon no better logick than this , ( as too much like stuff i meet with in reviewing this review ) i trust it shall not stand . for . christ , mat. . . speaks not to a single independent congregation as such , which he must do , if mr. h. dispute as a logician . and the argument must be thus : whos● are commanded to beware of false teachers and dogs , they may authoritatively depose officers . but women are to beware of false teachers , and to try the spirits , and to beware of justification by circumcision , phil. . yea , those that are of other congregations , and single persons , children and servants , and all christians who are not to judge rashly , mat. . , , , . all who are to pray earnestly , ver . . all who are to choose the narrow way to heaven , v. . and to know teachers by their works , v. . all who are to worship god in the spirit , rejoyce in god , have no confidence in the flesh , phil. . , . and thousands beside the male-church of a single congregation , are to do all these , and women are not to receive false teachers into their house , iob. . . are to beware of false teachers . did mr. h. believe a judicious reader would , or mr. h. should pass his judgment of such toyes as these ? . to be a fixed pastor to this flock , is no species of a pastor , but a meer accident ; nor to be a pastor habitu to all the congregations on earth , a genus to a b. but to be a pastor habitu to all congregations , is and makes a. b. as individual a pastor , as to be a fixed pastor makes him an individual pastor . a rudimentary in logick would not say , the same individual pastor could be a genus to himself , as homo is genus ( homo is species he ought to say ) to thomas . so when an accident is removed , such as fixedness of the pastoral calling to the congregation of boston , mr. cotton remains a pastor : else i might say , when thomas is no more a physician to sick iohn , for sick iohn is dead , thomas leaves off to be a physician to any other sick person on earth : so thomas is destroyed as thomas , ( whereas a poor accident onely to be a physician in actual excercise to sick iohn is onely destroyed ) and yet the general nature of thomas is still safe and maintained . the like answer is due to that which he calls a fundamental rule , sublato uno relatorum tollitur alterum . a man would say logick and reason were turned upside down . thomas is no actual physician to iohn now dead , and that relation between thomas and the dead man is gone : ergo , thomas himself , as a man , and his other relations to all other sick persons who call for his medicinal labours perish . reason and logick should perish in the man who should so argue . mr. h. if a person or presbytery have ministerial power , they must execute it in their own persons and places , they cannot delegate any supernatural power , or saving quality , or habit to another — the mystery of iniquity in some measure hath eaten into the presbytery . they have taken power to ordain before election , and make indefinite pastors , and have taken all power from the people . ans. . the issue is , the male-church only hath this power , to make and unmake officers : and they have of late , being not the fourth part of that which they call the onely visible church of redeemed ones , taken all power of censures , so that the rest have no consent , which is a popish domineering over their faith ; whereas we hold , the church not consenting , censures are not to be drawn out at all : here is more popery and bratish domineering over the consciences of the officers in point of heresie , to speak nothing of divers points of popery , anabaptisme , socinianisme that goeth along with this way . . that the churches cannot delegate a power to paul and barnabas their messengers , to determine in a synod according to the word , can be denied by none , but such as deny synods , contrary to act. . . nor knoweth the scripture any rule from civil corporations , who both make and chuse david and saul rulers and kings , to infer that the male-church cannot preach nor administer seals , but they both create and chuse spiritual officers . we may long call for scripture to prove this , but in vain , it is a tradition that we must believe , because so say our brethren . nor is it episcopacy for timothy and titus to ordain ministers in a joynt society ( in collegie ) ( episcopal monarchy in pope and prelates . ) nor is it to ordain pastors indefinitely , when it is done both with consent of the flock , and in reference to a certain flock . it s true , tim. . . tit. . . there is no mention made of a presbytery , nor is there mention there of a congregation : but timothy cannot preach in season , and out of season tim. , . nor can he rebuke before all these that sin publickly , but in the congregation , tim. . . so neither can timothy his alone prove the deacons , tim. . . for the apostles , acts . did it not , nor would he 〈◊〉 a prelatical monarch , his alone lay on hands , and call to the ministry , tim. . . tim. . . for the scripture saith a colledge did it , 〈◊〉 . , , . tim. . . and papists have the same ground ( but it is groundless ) that the keyes were given to peter only , mat. . and there is no word of a presbytery : and christ saith , iohn . thrice to piter only , lovest thou me ? feed my sheep . and there is no word of a colledge of apostles : but our divines with ier●m , cyprian , and the fathers , say , equal power of feeding , and power of the keyes was given to them all at a synod , mat. . , . ioh. . , , . acts 〈◊〉 . . and the same objection prelates mo●e . nor shall we be against iunius , melanctho● , whit●aker , danaeus . the jus and right of ordination is in the church , as in the virtual subject , to wit , in elders and people . ( but our brethren must have a sole male-church of brethren . ) but we may well say , the calling in concreto , is that which these divines mean● so melancthon saith , the calling contains jus ●ligendi , vocandi , ordinandi . other divines speak more accurately , as the learned professors of leyden , who beyond all doubt follow cyprian . mr. h. these , in whose power it is whether any shall rule over them , or no ; from their voluntary subjection it is , that the party chosen hath right , and stands in possession of rule and authority over them . it holds not which mr. r. saith . now ordination is an act of jurisdiction , such as to send an embassador , but that an embassador consent to go ( such as is election ) is no act of jurisdiction , for a father to give his daughter in marriage to one , is an authoritative act of a father : but for the daughter to consent to the choice is no act of authority . ans. true , consenting gives n● power , but the peoples giving of the pastor authority ever them , their calling , and by willing subjection , delivering up themselves to be ruled by him in christ i● an act of power . that is false whith mr. ball and mr. r. say , if the people could virtually give being to pastor and teacher , then they might execute the office of pastors and teachers : for aldermen ch●se the mayor souldiers the general , yet nonè of them can execute the office of mayor and general . ans. . the proposition is printed in other characters , and hath nothing found in it , nothing of scripture or reason to prove it , and is a needy begging of the question . those in whose power it is whether any shall rule over them or no , &c. mr. h. seeing himself widely out , durst not assume . but it is in the peoples power , whether any rule over them or no , &c. this the assumption must be , or the argument is non-sense : it s not in the peoples power , whether any rule over them or no. more wild divinity is scarue heard of , it must then be in mens power , whether there be rulers , apostles , pastors , teachers in the church ; and government , or none at all but a●archy and confusion : but a divine institution was never in the power of people ; but christ jesus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , gave , instituted , and ordained apostles , pastors , and officers in his house , eph. . . cor. . . . the proposition is false and never proved ; that their voluntary subjection , whose it is to chuse officers , gives formally and causa●iv●ly right of ruling to the chosen . i thus resort it , to shew the falshood of it ; then the sick man , in whose power it is to chuse thomas to be his physician , and no other man , he gave causatively right and being to thomas to be a physician . then . he in whose power it is to chuse iohn and no other , to build him a house : he in whose power it is to chuse richard to be a school master to teach his son , and no other school-master , he gave causatively right and being to the party iohn , so chosen to be a mason , and to the party so chosen , richard , causatively right and being to be a school-master . nothing more false , iohn was a mason , richard a school-master before their chusers were born . nothing follows , but the sick mans choice made thomas a physician , not simply , but to him only : and so must we say of the other two , and multitudes of other examples . and ●o nothing follows from mr. h. his argument , but only this flocks choice gave him causatively right and being , not simply to be a pastor ( ordination of the elders , act. . . tim. . . tim. . , &c. did that ) but to be this flocks fixed pastor : for we must distinguish betwixt a pastor and this peoples pastor , a pastor actu primo , and a fixed pastor in the second acts and exercise of his calling , hic & nunc , to this people , as touching their formales rationes , if our brethren will give us leave , if not , we value not ; scripture and good logick are for us . . mr. ball and mr. r. say not in several places , yes , no where , that the people may preach and baptize , if they give causatively being to pastor and teacher : but the people may then do and perform as high acts official and juridical . to the impertinent instance of aldermen and major , i have answered . . it is but ●nsis and gladius that is in the reply ; for the peoples delivering up themselves by voluntary subjection to be ruled by him , gives him no more being and right to be a pastor , but only right to be their pastor ( which is accidental to their calling ) then the sick mans voluntary subjection of , and delivering up of his body and health under the lord and creator of life , to thomas a skilled physician , to follow all his medicinal injunctions , gives causatively being to thomas to be physician , whereas he was a physician many years before . mr. h. ordination is not an act of supreme iurisdiction , but of order rather . it gives not being nor constitution to an officer , but is rather the admission and confirmation of him in his office . ans. that is said , not proved ; if it be an act of order , and commanded of god , a● where the regulating of a thing , that it be not done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rashly , is commanded , there the thing it self is commanded , tim. . . tim. . . then your ordinatihn by the sole male church void of all officers , and calling of officers without officers ( a thing without example in the scripture , except where god calls immediatly ) wants an act of order commanded of god , and that in an ordinary way ; for your way is , in ordinary the church is before the officers and gives being to the officers . . if ordination be but an approbation of the officers , who have already being , and not necessary that ordination should be where there is election of people , then it shall be strange , that there were officers at all ; the calling of officers we read of in the new testament ( who yet need not be there , but are ex superabundanti , present ) as act. . act. . act. . , , . act. . . tim. . tim. . . tim. . . tit. . . tim. . , &c. and no where is there vola vel vestigium , of a command or promise to the church destitute of officers , to call and give being to officers , nor any practice of the apostles for it . and i am so far from owning such a logick as mr. h. puts upon me , the church have not received power of excommunicating all their officers ; ergo , they have not received that power , a● neither thing , nor words , are in my mind , or book . but i provoke all the brethren for a warrant , or shadow of a warrant , by precept , by promise , by practice in scripture for a church void of officers , that hath power to call and give being to officers , or admit in , or cast out members , or perform any church worship . . let it be considered , if christ have given any jurisdiction at all , it must be in calling and in giving being to the officers of christs visible kingdom : but the specifick acts of giving being to the officers are to set men over the work , act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to separate and set apart for the calling , act. . . to prove 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , before they be put in the ministry , whether they have the requisite qualifications or not , tim. . . to lay hands on men for the office cautelously , tim. . ● . to commit the charge to faithful men , able to teach others , tim. . . tit. . . are ascribed to elders , to prophets , to pastors . shew me the like ascribed to your church wanting officers . mr. r. his comparisons of an embassador , &c. must stand then till you answer these often proposed arguments . it is weak , that mr. h. that the elders of ephesus was congregational . mr. h. answers not my arguments on the contrary , nor toucheth them . . it s most weak to say . dath paul exhort the elders , when they are assembled in the classis to watch against rav●ning wolves , or did they not this in their special charges ? as if a judicature of civil watchmen , a colledge of physicians were not both alone , and in their respective assemblies to watch over the city and the sick . mr. h. when churches were compl●ted with all officers , that then ordination was acted by a colledge of pastors , there is nothing in the text saith any such thing . ans. the homogeneal church yet wanting officers ( saith mr. h. ) is complete to create and call its officers , and a● independent in an island without officers , and hath that power , and no word of precept , or promise , or any such practice for such a church creating their officers . paul should have bid them use their power of ordaining , as the twelve apostles , act. . hids them use their power of chusing . and paul should not have charged timothy to usurp ordaining of officers , where there was a church in an orderly way , being the first formal subject of the keyes to do it . and mr. r. gives instances , where the elders are commanded to ordain , and lay on hands , and sayes this command or practice is not to be found in the word , in the hands of the people . my fourth argument stands , because every twelve in a family , is an homogeneous church . true ( saith mr. h. ) but they watch one over another by family rules . ans. that is a begging of the question ; for a family combination hath all the essentials of a church combination , if the church be taken for an homogeneal association , and wanteth only the name : for they cannot watch over one another , as touching seals , and no more can any homogeneous church of divers families so watch over one another . chap. viii . whether covenant-right to baptisme be derived from the nearest parents only , or from the remoter , the grand-fathers . mr. h. it belongs not to any ●…d ●●ssors , either nearer or further off removed , it is from the next parents , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and firstly to give covenant right of baptisme to their child 〈◊〉 when i say pred●●●ssors near e●…r further off , i include and comprohend all , beside the next parent — now covenant right agrees not to all other fo● them , nor can the p●… 〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 out the next parent ( in church covenant ) who is the adequate●●●s● of deriving these priviledges ans. . when mr. h. saith , it belongeth not to remote parents 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and fistly to convey covenant right to the children , he would make the reader believe that remote parents have some causative influence , but not primary , as the first subject . but the truth is , if the nearest parent be the adequate cause of conveyance ( as ●e saith ) then shall he not leave any influence at all to remote parents . . it is not the nearest parent as visibly in the covenant of grace , but as visibly in church-covenant independent wise , by mr. h. his doctrine : for ( saith mr. h. ibid. ) the next parents can give the priviledge and title to baptism , without any help of the pred●●●sso● . hence . more weight is laid upon the church-covenant than upon the covenant of grace ; and the traditions of men are heightned above the gospel and command of god. for suppose that iudas , magus , iezabel , who are under the church-covenant , be never discovered , nor judicially cast out , they convey covenant-right to baptism . but . these of approved godliness and visible saints , who cannot in conscience submit to their church-covenant , are secluded from the seals , and their seed from baptism , as the places in the margin clear , and magus and iezabel their children are admitted to baptism for the new church-covenant , and others , famously known to be godly to the brethren of the congregational way , and who bring sufficient testimonial with them , ( as their own words are ) though the testimonial be from private christians ; yet because the testimonial is not from a church , a church known to them to be under a church-covenant either implicitly or explicitly , are not admitted to church-ordinances , and so neither their seed to baptism . . godly so journers known to be such , and visible members broken off from church-membership through no sin or scandal in them , but either through violence of persecution , or some stroke of judgement , as pestilence , that hath scattered them , and removed the elders by death , can have no baptism to their children , though they be visibly in the covenant of grace , yet the seed of magus and iezabel , upon the sole account of the church-covenant ; so that opus opera●um , the deed done , the want of the formality of their membership , without the contempt , reigns here as in popery . . then by this they cannot have a wedding-garment to mens discerning , who are not inchurched their way . . they are not in the covenant of grace , nor the visibly called of god. nor . members visible of christs body , but as pagans and publicans , who are not thus inchurched in the nearest parent , and their seed unclean and pagan-seed . . then the seals were never administred according to the rule of the gospel until the independent churches arose . . nor can egypt , assyria , the kingdoms of the world , be the kingdoms of of the lord , and of his son christ , as isa. . . & . , . rev. . . except onely in the nearest father and mother inchurched by the church-covenant ; the ●●ed of the gentiles and their offspring blessed of the lord , isa. . . their seed and their seeds seed . isa. . . the enduring seed of christ , psa. , . isa. . . gen. . . isa. , , by our brethrens way are but onely the nearest sons and daughters of the onely nearest father and mother in church covenant . so christ is not davids seed , for david was not ( i judge ) his nearest father according to the flesh . when it is said , the seed of the godly is blessed , psal. . . his seed is mighty on earth , ps●● . . . it must be onely his nearest sons and daughters , not the thousand generations , exod. . and when it is said , praise him all ye seed of iacob , psal. . v. . none are then invited to praise god , but the nearest sons and daughters of the nearest parents : for our brethren ( from whence is the marrow of mr. h. his book ) tell us , the corinth . . . seems to limit the foederal sanctity or holiness to the children , whose next parents , one or both , were believers — for if we go one degree beyond the next parents — we might baptize the children of all the turks , and of all the indians : and if so , all the huge multitude of sons and daughters coming in to the church , that make an eternal excellency , isa. . and the joy of many generations , who shall inherit the land for ever , v. . to whom the lord shall be an everlasting light , v. . shall be the children onely , whose next parents , one or both , are believers . but we think the second command , exod. . takes the brethren off that scripture . . and such ups and downs , and leaping like locusts and frogs from earth to water , and from water to earth , hath not been heard : for how often are independent members in the covenant of grace , and christians , and out of it again as pagans , and their seed pagans , and their seeds seed pagans ? if all the fastning of an everlasting covenant to a kingdom , be onely nearest parents , and if they break the charters of heaven , all covenant-mercies are cancelled to the seed , and the seeds seed . . if we speak with scripture , the adequate cause of covenant love to fathers and sons , is the free grace of god , deut. . , . & . sam. . . . luke . , , . eph. . . the conveying subordinate cause , is sometime a family , as abraham , not as a physical parent onely , to convey the covenant-right onely in the direct blood threed or blood-line from parent to childe , but as both physical and moral , or oeconomick parent ; for abraham getteth the covenant-charter given to him , and not onely to his blood-seed , but to strangers and servants born under him , to the sons of his servants , gen. . . . it s given to cornelius and his house , act. . . & . . sometimes to samaria a great city , act. . to macedonia , to a great kingdom : exod. ● . i am the god of thy fathers , the god of abraham . now abraham was not their next parent : deut. . . he gives the land promised to the fathers . luke . . he saved us , to perform the mercy promised to our fathers ; v. . to remember his holy covenant ; v. . the oath which he sware to our father abraham . acts . the promise ( v. . ) is to you , and to your children : what ? onely to your nearest children ? yea & to all that are afar off even as many as the lord our god shall call . cor. . i will be their god , and they shall be my people ; according to that , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed , gen. . . either must this fail in the new testament , or we have no more right to the promises made to abraham , then the children of pagans have ; for if their nearest parent believe . they have covenant right , but that is but a yesterdays charter : yea , though the children do worse , and corrupt themselves more than their fathers , judg. . , . deut. . . ezek. . . yet if they repent , lev. . . then i will ( saith god ) remember my covenant with iacob , and also my covenant with isaac , and also my covenant with abraham will i remember , and i will remember the land — i will not cast them away , &c. nor is this a tempore●●●rcy onely , 〈◊〉 ezek. . , . kings . . & . 〈◊〉 kings . . & . 〈◊〉 . psal. . isa. . now if the parent nearest be the adequate cause , the mercy is not conveyed by david , o● for davids sake , as the scripture saith , more than to the wildest pagan . and that ●or . . must be meant of the farther off children , as rom. . . if the root be holy , so are the branches ; he means the branches to be graffed in again , v. . the branches beloved for the fathers sake , v. . far off branches , not yet ingraffed again , until the fulness of the gentiles be come in , v. , . mr. h. in the place exod. ● . the lord ●ies not himself to a law , but walks in breadth , as best be●●om● his wisdom ; so ●e eximes some from the threatning , and withhelds the expression of his love from others . ans. the expressions of the lords love and mercy , is one thing , ( the lord useth the latitude of soveraignty here ) and the extending of covenant-mercy to the thousand generations , is a far other thing . . when mr. h. saith , that the lord withholds the expressions of his love from others in the thousands mentioned , if he mean the expressions of his covenant-love , ( as he must , what is this from contradicting the words of the text ? calvin ( whom mr. h. misciteth ) saith , it s meant of covenant-mercy to be propagated to the thousand generations , according to that , i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed . now neither scripture nor calvin ever meant by seed , the nearest seed of the nearest parent onely : quod d●… gratia ( inquit calvin ) in fam●… p●orum aeterna resideat . perkins is as clear in this . i wonder that mr. h. was not afraid to cite these worthy servants of god , for an opinion so repugnant diametrally to the letter of the scripture : and . to the longanimity and patience of god. for an earthly prince making a covenant of grace with a man and his family , were it grace and gracious dealing to cut off all his posterity for the fault of onely the nearest parents , so as all the rest of the blood-line should be to him as damned traitors and rebels ? and . it close everts the liberty of god in his free election of grace ; for doth not scripture and experience teach , that the lord never sent his gospel to a nation , but he had there among them his chosen ones , both of the seed of the elect and reprobate , acts . , . and therefore the nation called of god by the gospel , is also the chosen of god , and the loved of god , according to the most precious part : so the scripture , deut. . , . & . . eph. . , , . cor. . , . psal. . , . . & . , . now if he should e●●t off men from the covenant for the real defection of the onely nearest parent , he must remove the gospel for the same defection , and conclude himself that he should not choose to life the children of some reprobates , contrary to scripture : and it s as great a wonder to me , that mr. h. should claim to zanchius for this opinion , for he expresly refutes it . mr. h. they who imitate the sins of parents may expect plagues , they that follow the obedience of faithful parents may expect mercies . ans. it s impertinent ; for such as follow the sins of parents are none of the thousand generations of them that love god , not the latter , of them that hate god. . though both these be true , mr. h. must prove that mercies promised exod. . are covenant-mercies derived from the nearest parents onely , else he saith nothing for his owne cause . mr. h. the mercies here promised are not all the particular blessings and priviledges that the parents were possessed of . israel wanted circumcision fourty years in the wilderness , and in the time of the iudges , and in the years captivity they wanted sundry priviledges they enjoyed under david and solomon ; the mercy here must be grace and glory . ans. . this is for me : but when mr. h. would have infants of nearest parents excommunicated , to be excluded both from baptism and covenant-mercy , and have them in the case wholly with the infants of pagans , they must be excluded from grace and glory ; else mr. h. must shew , with anabaptists , some way of salvation of infants who are without the covenant , and so have no share in that onely precious name by which men are saved . . i hope mr. h. will not say , israel wanted circumcision in the wilderness for the sins of their nearest parents onely ; there was a physical impediment ; the lord , who loves mercy better than sacrifice , would not have infants wounded in that ●earisome journey : nor was it for their nearest parents idolatry onely , but because they and their fathers from egypt until that day , ezek. . . rebelled , they were deprived of this other priviledge . . mr. h. must prove , that the people in the wilderness , in the time of the judges , a stiff-necked generation , who did worse than their fathers , despised , mocked and killed the prophets , were all of them visible converts , a generation of lovers of god , and such as kept his commandments . mr. h. this being the meaning , as calvin , zanchius , junius , perkins , what inference can be made for the conveyance of the right of baptism from remote parents to children , i know not ; for how doth this agree to children to love the lord , and keep his commandments , who are not yet capable , being not come to years to put forth such acts ? ans. i shall not invite anabaptists to triumph in pulling this argument for infant-baptism from our divines ; for if the words must be expounded of actual love to god , and actual obedience in infants ; so that , if infants be not capable of actual love and obedience to god , the covenant-mercy must be broken off in all infants who die before they can come to years to actually to love the lord , and keep his commandments ; and if the flux of covenant-mercy be suspended , while infants come to be capable to actually love god and obey him ; where then shall be covenant right in the males of the jews to be circumcised , and in the infants born of covenanted parents under the new testament to be baptized ? for the argument , if any be , must be thus : to such as cannot actually love god and keep his commandments for want of age , there be no covenant-right to baptism conveyed . but this want of age and capacity to love god and actually obey him , is in all infants in old or new testament ; except mr. h. mean , that nearest parents can supply the want of capacity , and infuse actual understanding to infants , that they may actually love god , and keep his commandments , which remote parents cannot do , which is a mystery i am yet to learn. but to the reader it is clear , that infants have no right to baptism until they come to years to actually love god ; ergo , they should not be baptized until they be converted . but again , no anabaptist teacheth , that any are to be baptized by covenant-right from parents near or remote , except they personally believe and profess actually : and the very like mr. h. saith . mr. h. where shall we stand if a thousand generations have interest in baptism ? then the children of turks cannot be excluded , for some of them are found between us and adam . ans. is not this to cavil at the lords words , not at us ? so they set this conjecture down as a part of their discipline ; it s not above generations from noah to christ , — and if gods mercy to a thousand generations may fetch in the children of excommunicated persons , the same promise may fetch in all turks and infidels at this day . but i pray you are turks such as love god and keep his commandments ? are not turks avowed enemies to christ and the gospel-covenant ? and so for many generations have deserted the covenant and visible church , so that they are no visible church , the lord having removed the candlestick : can this be said of children born in the visible church , either of the jews or of christians professors , because their nearest parents are extreme wicked or excommunicated , since they are yet born in the visible church where the candlestick is ? shall the children be cut off from circumcision , since the lord for abraham , for davids sake , for the holy roots sake ( not the nearest , who were most unholy , and cast out , rom. . . ) gives circumcision and church-room to the branches , rom. . ? and if the child of nearest parents excommunicated be born in a believers house , or resigned to a believer , to be brought up as his own , he is to be baptized , say our brethren ; but the being so born , hinders not the childs cutting off from the covenant . where then is his covenant-right to baptism ? it s either from his remote parents , which we say ; i will be thy god , and the god of thy seed : or from his nearest excommunicate parents . this latter mr. h. denies : or from the beleever , in whose house he was born . if so , we shall not contend , then the covenant-right is not broken and removed , because the nearest parents are excommunicate . some parental covenant-right is conveyed to this infant , which is not conveyable to the infant of a turk . . mr. h. hath the words of the second command for his party : for , i● the nearest parents excommunication deprive the children of all covenant-mercy and right to the seals , the words should be false , and the lord should be less in shewing mercy , in extending it to one generation only , to the nearest children only , for their nearest parents loving of god , and keeping of his commandments , and more abundant in severity of justice , in visiting the sins of the fathers upon the children , unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate him . but this turns the promise and the threatning of the command upside down , for mercy is so extended to fathers nearest & nearest children , and punishing justice to four , and the command extends mercy unto thousands , & justice to only four generations . now two generations , as they are fewer then four , so are they far more fewer then a thousand generations : as also , if mercy extended to a thousand generations , only be upon condition , they imitate their godly parents ( saith mr. h. ) by loving ( actually ) and obeying ( actually ) his commandments , especially that of the truth of his worship , then is mercy not extended to the nearest one generation of infants ; for it is certain the nearest one generation of infants cannot be yet capable ( saith mr. h. with the same breath ) being not come to years to put forth such acts of actual love and obedience in worshipping the true god , as he hath commanded in his word : and if mercy be not extended to one generation , nor covenant-seals to ishmael , for abrahams , nor to esau for isaacs sake , contrary to all scripture : the lord shews not mercy to thousands of generations , because not to one generation . and so again , the promise of mercy is destroyed , for the condition of actual love , and of actual obedience is physically impossible to all sorts of infants , both of parents loving or hating god. and . the sweet and merciful proportion is destroyed , for god punisheth infants children of achab , of the am●lakites , of ieroboam in the cradle , though these infants be as uncapable to bow the knee to idol gods , or to imitate the idolatry and actual abominations of their fathers , as the infants of godly parents are to imitate the actual love and obedience of their parents : and yet the scripture and experience teach , that justice proceedeth to four generations against the one : and mr. h. denies that mercy goes along to the thousand generations with the other , because poor infants on the breast cannot bow their knee and pray in faith to god , and do the like acts of true worship , as their godly parents do : and yet mr. h. fathers his meaning upon calvin , zanchius , iunius , perkins . mr. h. the next parents being excommunicate , cannot give to the child the right which they have not themselves . ans. i grant , because they are not the sole and adequate cause of conveying covenant-right to the children . but where then ( saith mr. h. ) shall we stand , how shall it be conveyed to remote parents ? the answer is easie , so long as the nearest children of excommunicate parents are born in the visible house , where the king yet dwells , and the golden candlestick is not removed , the children are heirs to the remote parents , the children are followed with covenant-mercy , passing by the nearest parents : ( saith the lord ) for my servant davids sake , king. . , , . he would not destroy iudah for his servant davids sake , king. . , king. . . king , . for the promise is not laid down in the hand of the nearest parents only , but in their hands with whom first god signally covenants , as with abraham , david , with the three thousand baptized , act. . . and their children , and all that are afar off , and as many as the lord shall call with the seed , with samaria and theirs , act. . so long as a calling gospel is there : this shall not fetch in the turks . how will mr h. with so short a good night of christ break off the longanimity of god to the seed for their nearest parents , if they break a new congregational covenant ? yea , if by persecution , and through no sin of the nearest parents , they be broken out of congregation-state , presently the candlestick is removed from the seed , and a bill of divorce sent to the whole race , and they banished out of the house , and declared pagans . o scriptureless cruelty , to make god to break the covenant first , the parents continuing in covenant-obedience and suffering for christ ! mr. h. men of approved piety in covenant with god visibly , are to be admitted to the seals ( saith mr. r. ) but ( saith mr. h. ) gracious men be pertinacious . ans. pertinacy in a scandal marrs approved piety ; but because they approve not your way , are they therefore pertinacious ? mr. h. to be a member of the visible church in general , and have no particular existence of membership in any particular congregation , is a fansie , as to say there is a part of manhood not existing in john , thomas , or any individuals . ans. mr. h. fansies there is a promise of continuing on the rock made to the congregation in general , and yet this or that congregation falls off the rock . . mr. r. his church-general is no abstract generick nature , but an individual integral catholick body , existing in all the earth ; and one is baptized a member to all congregations jure , and exists and dwells in one only : as a man may have right to all city-priviledges , and yet may reside , and actually enjoy only the city priviledge of london . mr. h. imagines that our catholick integral church is genus , and the congregation species : and if so , the church of boston should be the whole integral catholick church , and the little finger the whole body of iohn . chap. ix . a new device of mr. h. his two sentences , the official and dogmatical sentence of officers , yet not concional , nor juridical , and another juridical of the male-church , is examined . mr. h. it is the office of rulers dogmatically to discover the mind of god , and the mind of christ , in convincing by witnesses the offenders , and preparing the cause . and the brethren have no more power to oppose the sentence of the censure thus prepared , and propounded by the elders , then they have to oppose their doctrine , for the elders may preach it as the word of god , by vertue of their office . ans. . scripture tells us nothing of two sentences . . two judicatures which lead witnesses . . two sorts of binding judges . this then is will-worship . . no scripture tells us of leading of witnesses to convince delinquents concionally , by way of preaching , old or new testament , not mr. h. must here speak , rev. . , , . acts . matth. . . cor. , . tim. . . and elsewhere we read of but one juridical censure by the whole court , and of one sentence : if he h●a● not the church , &c. they are not apostles but lyers , rev. . . iezabel should not be suffered to teach . who can dream that these w●… first concluded dogmatically , or ought to have been so c●…ded by the officers in one court , and then were concluded juridically by the male church ? . these words , t●●l the church , whether must they be then , t●…ll the officers , that they may dogmatically determine , or tell the male-church that they may juridically determine ? and yet , one of these bear the name of the church , by our brethrens way . or . tell the church of redeemed ones , which is their only church . the first is our church of rulers , which they cannot endure : the other two cannot subsist . . who gave ruling elders a joynt power to preach juridical sentences , which must binde the unofficed brethren as the preached word of god , for they have no calling to labour in the word and doctrine , tim. . ? and how can they preach , except they be sent , rom. . , ? . how can rude and unlettered men , who labour not in the word and doctrine , by vertue of their office dogmatically resolve deep points of heresie , more than unofficed brethren , and predetermine their conscience ? should the ruling elders lips that way preserve knowledge ? and should they as the messengers of the lord of hosts , with the pastors , carry the word of god so binding others ? what they do in synods is a far other thing , for there they act juridically rather than dogmatically , and joyntly with pastors and doctors . . this sentence must lay bands upon the consciences of the male church , so that there is nothing left to them but to obey ; and can obeying and submitting to the word leave any room to judging in an authoritative way ? sure , by this they must either hear and believe after a popular judging , or then reject , and so must women and children of age ; and what place then is left to juridical sentencing by the elders or brethren ? yea , so the churches freedom of judging is none at all , when the church may no more oppose that dogmatick sentence , than they may oppose the word of god in the mouth of their officers ? and what greater power can be given to any , then what is given to this independent eldership ? . when there is a contradiction between the two sentences , which of the judicatures must be supreme ? if the dogmatick be supreme , they may dogmatickly determine , that the fraternity ought to be excommunicated for opposing the word of god in their sentence ; and who can excommunicate an independent church ? and again , when the elders themselves turn wolves , who then can give out an official and dogmatick sentence against them ? that must be wanting : and hath not the like of this brought forth among brownists reciprocal excommunications ? chap. x. of synods and their power . mr. h. synods are necessary for union in the churches : in the multitude of counsellors there is safety , acts . prov. . ans. union in truth and peace among churches , say these churches , must make one visible body ; then ruptures , rentings , scandals , must say there is in this body visible , a necessity of government and jurisdiction must be incident to that visible body , which they deny : for this union must be a professed union , to speak and think the same thing , phil. . c. . and this is visible union ; and so they must meet , not in their members ( that is unpossible ) and here is a visible church meeting , ( for civil it is not ) debating , advising about matters of government of the house of god. so strong is truth . mr. h. there are associations of divers sorts , classis , synods , provincial , national , oecumenick . ans. . a general councel is before mocked as a nothing , and the brethren bring arguments against the being and nature of synods , commissioners , representees : the contrary is here asserted . mr. h. the acts must t is ( saith mr. r. ) 〈◊〉 ecclesiastick decrees . ans. ambignity , darkness : to binde as a part of scripture , is . that which is contained and clearly deduced from scripture . or . that this act of decreeing issuing from the immediate revelation and assistance of the spirit , maketh that which is decreed to be scripture : in the former sense acts tie as good advice and counsel onely ; in the latter they tie not as scripture . ans. no man ( i do not say its done consultò ) more darkens . i brought three members to clear the matter . mr. h. leaves out the third , and darkens all : for acts of synods lay on bands neither as formal scripture , for they come not from the immediately inspiring spirit , nor yet onely as clear and infallible deductions from scripture , for so the counsel of a woman abigail , infallibly deduced from the sixth command , laid a burthen upon the conscience of david . and this is all the tie that mr. h. gives to synods , they tie as godly counsels of women and servants . but mr. r. and so mr. cotton , gives a third member , they lay burthens on the consciences of the churches , not for the matter onely , as the godly advice of women , but formally , as from the ministerial authority of the commissioners . and this power mr. tho. goodwyn and mr. ph. nye give to all ministers over their congregations : so as these three shall be judges of mr. h. his great mistake in this distinction . hence two contradictions are here : mr. h. gives no power to synods , but power of advising , such as women over men . mr. cotton offends at that , and sayes , that synods have a ministerial power over the churches . in the former mr. h. leaves his brethren , and sides with socinians and arminians . and mr. h. shall confess the weakness of this distinction , if applied to doctrines delivered by pastors to the flock ; for they neither binde as womens godly counsels deduced from scripture onely , not do they binde as immediately inspired formal scripture . . the first and formal subject of the power of the keys is the male-church of the congregation ( saith mr. h. ) yea , not that onely , saith mr. cotton , a part of the power of the keys is in a synod . the dissenting brethren gave in a paper to the committee of accommodation at westminster concerning synods , &c. . at these meetings , let them pray , and expound scripture , resolve difficult cases of conscience . . they may dogmatickly declare what is the will of christ in these cases : and this judgement ought to be received with reverence and obligation 〈◊〉 from an ordinance of christ. . if the doctrine or practise of any congregation be erroneous , hurtful , or destructive to holiness and peace of that , or of other congregations , they are bound to give an account thereof to the classis or synod . so we owe a reason of our hope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to every one , women and magistrates that are scandalized , pet. . . rom. . . cor. . , . . the classis and synod may examine , admonish , and in case of obstinacy declare against that congregation . . this is but toward an offending church . . a brother or wom●n may declare against , or withdraw from obstinate offenders , though not as from a church . . the classis or synod may judge of any who deserve excommunication . . if the particular eldership refuse to do their duty , the classis ought not onely to withdraw communion from them , but also to exercise the sentence of excommunication themselves . this was refused by some ; but it s a great testimony from adversaries for presbyterial government , onely it wants scripture . . in the case of an appeal from an unjust sentence , the classis may repeal ( they say not , by the power of jurisdiction , for a christian woman , a martyr , repealed the acts of trent ) the unjust sentence , if the congregation be obstinate . . the classis or synod may ordain ministers for congregations that have not a sufficient ministery . in all this ( except the sixth ) much is yielded , and nothing is yielded . for . every godly counsellor , man or woman , as a counsellor , by the fifth command is above such as are counsell'd , being honoured to carry the minde of god , as a private messenger of god , beside that the counsel for the matter bindes the conscience : so david saith to a woman , sam. . . blessed be the lord god of israel , which sent thee this day to meet me . . they insinuate a distinction of erroneous doctrine hurtful to holiness , and some erroneous doctrine not hurtful to holiness ; whereas he who commands us to be holy as he is holy , pet. . . commands all sound opinions in fundamentals , or all revealed truths ; nor can it but be hurtful to holiness , to have erroneous opinions of god and christ , such as socinians , antinomians and familists , and others have . . they do not with christian candor set down their minde concerning synods and classis , as they call them , nor confirm what they say by scripture . mr. h. if a heathen turn a member of the iewish church , he is by mr. r his way , by the law of nature to submit to iewish ceremonies , because every-member of the corporation must be under the laws of the whole : this shall make every law positive to be the law of nature . ans. not so : it s the law of nature in general , that the whole rule the part , but it follows not , ergo every member is to submit to every positive law of the whole , though most unjust , the member is t●… submit to every law of nature commanded by the whole : the little finger infected with a gangrene , is to submit to the whole man , that it be cut off for the safety of the whole body , but it s against particular nature that it be cut off , but most suitable to universal nature . so in the general , its natural for the creature rational to obey the creator ; but it follows not , but it s a meer positive law that peter give his life for the gospel , when god by a positive command calls him to it ; and the law positive , if divine , i● not contrary to the law of universal nature . mr. h. frequently in such purposes slips . mr. h. the division of a nation into provinces , of a christian province into territories or presbyteries , is either a device of man , or a divine institution . ans. if a device of man be taken for an act of christian prudence , it is then neither simply the one nor the other , but mixt of both ; for a device of man is taken in an evil part , for an unlawful forgery , as king. . . hos. . . psa. . . and so whatever is an act of christian choice , is not a device of man. mr. h. that which is acted by one , and may be altered by another prince , is a device of man. but such is the division of a nation into provinces . ans. that which is in question is not concluded , the division of a christian nation into presbyteries and provinces according to local bounds and mathematical inches , is alterable ; and so a congregation independent of , rather of , or , is alterable , shall it not upon reason be an alterable device ? the quantity of water in baptism , of wine that every one drinks at the lords supper , how long the pastor shall preach , two hours or three , are alterable , as to the quantity , by men ; but for that the ordinances of a congregation , of water in baptism , are not devices or forgeries of men , that there should be such associations of provinces , of territories , for convenient feeding , governing , and mr. h. granted for counselling , mr. cotton for command and use of the keys yields also ; so the question shall not be of the subject , but of the power and of the bounds , where acts of free choice of rectified reason for civil ends also have place . but the conclusion is naught . so , that which is not in the word ( saith he ) is a device of man. i assume , the frame of the meeting-house for congregational worship , the number , names , trades , callings of members , the quantity of water in baptism , the quantity of bread that every one eats a● the lords supper , are no more in scripture , than the territories or bounds of presbyteries , yet are they not for that humane devices . mr. h. it is doubtful that all our singular actions ( as mr. r. saith ) are mixed , for eating and drinking must be for gods glory , and omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona vel mala . ans. if mr. h. doubt of this , ames , didoclavius can speak to it . there is such a thing as an action indifferent , as augustine saith , or rather ierome , that is neither good nor evil , but it is not a humane action properly , as to spit or purge the nose . but see all the schoolmen , scotus , thomas , lombard , and all that writ upon them , and you shall never reade this new axiome , omnis actio in individuo est moraliter bona v●l mala . durandus indeed , and the schoolmen say , that every act individual which followeth deliberate reason , is necessarily either morally good or evil . see greg. de valentia . . for the mixture of our actions ; its cleare there is something physical in eating at the lords supper , as the word hath not set a rule concerning the physical quantity of bread and wins , so there be not too much , for it is not to feed the body , nor too little , for it must work upon the senses . and there is in praying , preaching , the tone , the accent of the organs , of the voice , and their motion : so that we eat and drink for god , and soberly and seasonably , is moral , and squared by the word ; but a man sins not in eating quickly or lently , in the house , or in the garden , or sometime in his bed , sometime at midnight , upon necessity . mr. hooker errs not a little . in calling the acts of the synod , act. . councels , such as godly men and women , who are not apostles and elders , may give to others : for counsels are not burdens laid upon the people and churches , by the wisedom and authority of the holy ghost . . by apostles and elders , who sharply rebuke the pressers of circumcision , as subverters of the soules of people . . neither are they indifferent advices , ●hich they might reject , but these they could not reject , without despising god and the holy ghost , the very thing that the lord saith , he that dispiseth you , dispiseth me : which cannot be said of a counsel of the heathen man to a christian. it is ( saith mr. cotton ) an act of the binding power of the keys , to bind burthens , as acts . . . the decrees of no properly so called church on earth are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the decrees of apostles and elders . mr. h. calls them only advices and counsels : is it not safer to believe luke , act. . . then mr. h ? but a synod is never called a church , say they ; this is but to contend for names ; for the word church , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is three times , act. . , , . given to a civil meeting : and mr. h. will not have it given to bodies meeting for the affairs of the church of christ. mr. h. where there is no delegation of messengers by mutual consent , there is no right of jurisdiction , decrees onely bind the churches who send them . ans. antioch , act. . . and ierusalem sent messengers , therefore two churches , at least were sent , and were bound ; as for delegation , we shall speak hereafter of it . . if they ought to send , and stand in need of light and peace , and send not , they are the same way tyed , that some hundreds absent , when iezabel is sentenced and excommunicate , are obliged to withdraw from communion from her , though they were not present to consent to the sentence . mr. h. it s no prejudice to the care and wisedom of our saviour , that the punishing of the congregational throne be reserved to god only . ans. when scandals between congregation and congregation , and members of divers churches are greater in number and offence , and necessity of edifying and scandalizing greater , his wisedom must provide for the more rather then the less . mr. h. if when a church offends , i must tell a higher , then must i at length tell an oecumenick or general councel . ans. general councels being more abstracted from infecting scandals of conversation , are rather doctrinal remedies : nor are censures the ordinary possible adequate way of removing of scandal . the word and censures exercised in the catholick integral visible church , in parts integral is the adequate cause . mr. h. if every man be allowed his appeal to an higher , then also to a general councel , then for many hundred years , while the appeal be discussed pendente appellatione , the appealer cannot be censured . ans. we allow only just appeals in case of oppression , to relieve the oppressed . . in difficult cases , deut. . which rarely are such as call for a general councel , in case of general defection in point of doctrine , such may be ; and the inferiour churches , that truth suffer not , are to declare for the truth . . we allow only what men jure may do . . the argument supposeth that we approve a towering up of appeals , even to a general councel , as a liberty of every member , whatever unjust prejudice be in it : and that every such appeal may stop the actings of christs visible kingdom and called pastors . christ hath given no power to sin . mr. h. it s a wonder , that because churches may rebuke , yea , christians may rebuke heathens , though not in a church way , that therefore the synod hath a power of jurisdiction — paul rebuked the athenians , acts . a 〈◊〉 these acts of church communion ? ans. my argument is not à genere ad speciem , sed specie ad genus . these convened in the name of christ by the holy ghost , who 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with one consent , by way of suffrage and judgement . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. . . & . . rebuke perverters of souls , act. . . and lay on burdens and commands , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to observe , act. . . and keep such things , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to abstain from such things , act. . . and give decrees , by which the churches were established in peace and truth , act. . , . these have power to excommunicate the refusers of such acts , according to matth. . for paul and barnabas were scandalized , and complained to the church of antioch . act. . who sent them to complain to a synod at ierusalem , act. . , , . and these who in a church-way determine against perverters of souls have juridical power : if therefore these men had done the contrary , and had refused to hear the church , or churches convened , and should teach these decrees came not from the holy ghost , were they not to us as publicans and heathens ? yea , and wh●● more could the church of pergamus , and that of thyatira independent 〈◊〉 , say our brethren , do in making acts against such as h●ld the doctrine of balaam , of the nichola●… against iezabel , rev. . , . . if they should after prctice and practice such impure doctrine , but declare them perverters of souls , and charge others to keep no fellowship with them ? and shall all be but a rebuke , & such a counsel as one private man giveth to heathen ? and sure pauls rebuke of these at athens , act. . though it made not up the rebuke of a church , yet paul rebuked them not as a private man , or as a godly woman may rebuke idolaters , but formally as a pastor . and paul and barnabas as pastors removed the caadlestick , and turned to the gentiles , act. . and unchurched the jews , which no private men could do . so the prophesies of isaiah , ieremiah , ezekiel , against babylon , persians , tyrus , &c. as they made not the people to be churches , so they came not from private men , but from the immediatly inspired prophets ; and such prophets of divine authority these are proved to be from these prophesies : so the juridical church-authority of the synod , by whitaker , calvin , beza , and hosts of learned divines , is concluded from act. . not is it my mind , that the jews did excommunicate the samaritans so formally as a single delinquent is excommunicate : nor do i defend the superstition by mr. io-weemes , and jewish doctors in the manner of excommunicating them . it s sure , the jewes , the true church deservedly renounced church-communion with them . origen , iosephus , car●lus sigonius , and others , tell us they were most corrupt in their religion , king. . and though augustine say the jewes so abhorred them , that they would not drink water out of any vessel of the samaritans ; and christ refutes that , seeking water to drink from the woman of samaria . yet since christ saith , ioh. . . ye worship ye know not what ; we know what we worship , for salvation is of the iews ; he evidently , as mr. r. said , justifieth the substance of the excommunication , which is all i intend : let their fooleries pass . mr. r. granteth one church hath not power over another . ans. true , but one associate with many hath power . mr. h. a man may separate totally from a church , and from an assembly of turks ; but for one man to excommunicate , were a pr●fanation of the lords ordinance . ans. a single person could not separate from the church of the jewes , though they had not a few corruptions , mat. . , , . mat. . . no single person can lawfully be a member of a turkish church , how can he then separate from such ? . the church of the jewes ( and salvation was of the jews , ioh. ● . ) was not one man ; therefore their excommunicating of the samaritans is not hence concluded to be null . . but when the sounder part , though fewer , separateth from the major part , and the major part makes manifest defection from the truth , and professed cause and covenant . and carry along with them the body of atheists , and malignant opposers of pure religion , and wicked men . . and that the fewer and sounder part have the collective part of the godly , and generality of such as make conscience of their ways with them . and . that major part is again and again warned and 〈◊〉 go on to hold out and cast out , as far as they can , all , not of their sinful way , though in their conscience they in other things judge and prosess them to be sound and godly : in that case i judge the fewer part the church , and their censures valid : for the promise is made to such as meet in the name of christ , mat. . mr. h. if all common affairs that concern many congregations ( saith mr. r. ) were managed not by one congregation , but by the suffcages , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , act. . . apostles , elders and select brethren , then synods and their church-power most be lawful : but the former is true in the chusing of matthias , act. . and the treasury of the churches , and call●ng of their deacons , act. . & . are disposed by a synod of apostles , with consent of the churches . paul instructeth a synod or meeting of 〈◊〉 at ephesu● in their duty of feeding , act. . & act . peter gives an account of his going in to the gentiles , to a meeting of apostles and bre●… , 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 , . it s true , in the chusing of matthias , something extraordinary there was , that the apostles could not do as pastors , but as apostles : as apostles they appoint two , v. . god only could limit the call to two certain men , all the pastors and churches on earth could not do that : and as apostles , v. . they pray for the directing of the lo●… : and act. . as apostles by the immediately inspiring authority by which they writ scripture , they appoint a new office of deacons , which was not in the church before : but they do most of the rest by the churches going along . mr. h. there is no synod in these . . there be no delegate commissioners . . no gathering of members by common consent . . no disputing . . no common determination . ans. neither the first nor the second are essential to synods , if they be persons in publick authority they have a material delegation ; a formal commission is a matter of order ; nor were the last two wanting , not to say where the matter is plain , shall it lose the nature of a synod , because it wants doubtsome ●…diations ? but mr. h. and mr. cotton are obliged to give an instance scriptural beside the question : we have act. . a meeting of apostles , elders , brethren , exercising by the grant of mr. cotton and the . dissenting brethren some specifick church●●cts of synodical , pastoral , authoritative teaching and commanding of more congregations then one : ergo , they have power to exercise juridical acts : for if peter may exercise one specifick act of a man , let us suppose to play the musician , the astronomer , to number things numerable , to admire , to laugh , no man can deny but peter then must be a man , and hath power to discourse and argue . so if a synod , as a synod can exercise one specifick act of a church , being convened in the name of christ , a reason must be given , why a synod hath not the essence of a church to exercise all the specifick acts of a church . a synod is not a congregational church ; ergo , it s no church , est incons . à negatione species , &c. mr. h. peter gives an account of his fact , act. . to the iews , who doubt of the lawfulness of his conversing with the gentiles : but here is no synod . ans. yea , the jewes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , syrus , chrysostom , they accused peter before the apostles . epiphanius thinketh c●rinth●s set them on work , beza , they chid . it s like , saith gualther , the apostles did not understand this ; but they accuse no● peter . but calvin wel observes , peter willingly submits himself to the judgement of the church , and renders an account to the apostles and church : and what is that but a synod ? mr. h. his answer is one with that of the jesuits lorinus and cornelius , that he gave out of humility an account to the people , not to the apostles , for he was above the apostles . mr. h. act. . the elders were occasionally 〈◊〉 , they prescribe nothing ●o paul. ans. it seems calvin takes up the mind of luke 〈◊〉 , for he saith , hence we may gather , when any serious business was to do , the elders were in use to assemble , and paul doth nothing in the church of other pastors ( ●aith gualther ) by his own private authority , but gives an account to the ministers . b●… saith , this was the fourth councel ; lorinus , no , for there were no v●tes asked ( saith he ) no debates , &c. corne●●us à 〈◊〉 also denies it was a synod , and sayes it was but a meeting that saluted paul. mr. h. ownes their opinion for his own , and calls it only an ●●easional meeting . but say that it were so ( as all synodical meetings , both that act. . and act. . and that act. . ) it will not conclude it to be no synod . . the saluting of paul was a christian formality of courtesie ; but paul in the synod , v. , . gives them an exact account , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , singula ordine ( saith 〈◊〉 ) particularly what god had done among the gentiles : which is a business of the spreading of the gospel through the habitable world , and they shew their judgement of pauls carriage toward the jews , and the ceremonies were not fully expired to them , and toward the gentiles , they confirm the act of the synod , act. . businesses worthy of a synod . mr. h. independent government is deficient ( saith mr. r. ) because now when apostles are not , all the means of publick and pastoral propagating the gospel to other churches , and to the heathen , are confined to a single congregation : whereas the elders thereof can act nothing as officers , and the members can act nothing in a church-way without that one congregation . this argument of mine is not answered by that of mr h. those whom pastors cannot judge , as being without to them , because of another congregation , and heathen , over them they have 〈◊〉 pastor-like power . for the proposition is most false : pastors cannot excommunicate those of another congregation , or heathen ; ergo , they cannot teach them as pastors . it follows not , ex negatione speci●i , non sequitur negatio generis : this is not a man , therefore this is not a living creature . so . a single pastor , he alone cannot excommunicate an offender of his own congregation ; for one man is not a church , ergo he cannot preach as a pastor to this offender . the consequence is most false , and contrary to mr. h. for he hath no other proper pastor on earth but he . so weak is m. h. his present proposition . . paul and barnabas preach as sent pastors authorized both by god , and the laying on of hands , and praying of the prophets at antioch , acts . but they have no power to excommunicate the gentiles , who are yet no members of the church , nor baptized . paul , acts . . is sent to preach to macedonia , without their choosing him to be their pastor ; and yet paul could not cast out those that were no members until they should be member . if it be said , that paul and barnabas preached to the gentiles not as pastors , because not chosen by them , but as apostles , this is well near nonsense . for , . apostles as apostles essentially are catholick pastors , not private teachers ; and so apostles preached as men , not sent of god , nor yet of men , whose baptism was neither from heaven , nor from men . . why not pastors ? because not chosen by the people ? that is , men onely can make properly so called pastors , but god cannot . whither go we ! . are not all pastors either apostolick or extraordinary or ordinary the same pastors in nature and essence ? except acts of preaching christ and of baptizing differ in specie and nature , as they flow from apostles , and as they flow from ordinary men , which were to make ordinances , the gospel , the seals , of different nature , better or valid , or worse and less valid , as they come from apostles , or from ordinary pastors . strange divinity 〈◊〉 . by this doctrine of mr. h. the gospel must be propagated to the world , and churches planted among heathen , . either by apostles , which are not now , and shall gratifie seekers , or by pastors as pastors , which we say , and mr. h. and his gainsay : or . by private men , or by pastors as private men gifted . but . are private men successors of the apostles , to plant churches among the heathen ? what scripture for this ? is that promise , l● i am with you to the end of the world , left by christ to private men ? sure that promise is made to the apostles and their successors , in all acts of their pastoral preaching , either in planting or watering : so he sheweth ( saith ierome ) that the apostles shall ever live in faithful pastors to succeed them , both in planting churches , that ye may gather to 〈◊〉 my church and saints ( saith chrysostome ) out of all nations . now by mr. h. his way , the lord promiseth thus : i will be with you , and all faithful pastors in preaching ( when the apostles are dead ) to their own formed congregations ; but i promise no presence nor ministerial assistance at all to pastors ordinary , when they preach in another congregation than their own , or when they preach the gospel to heathens , and those that are not yet churches of christ , for then they act not as pastors . then must either private christians , or some new kinde of officers that are unknown to the word , and are neither apostles , evangelists , pastors , nor prophets nor doctors , be the onely planters of churches among the heathen : and where is there scripture for that ? or then this promise of christs presence must be made to private men . but have not some private men brought the gospel to heathens ? true : but now we dispute of the onely fixed ordinary spreaders of the gospel to other congregations and heathen societies , since the apostles are now dead ; ye● , and we finde that the lord gave a sort of new calling to the apostles touching those to whom they were hic & nunc to preach , as peter and iohn are called to samaria , acts . peter to cornelius and the gentiles , act. . paul and barnabas , act. . to the gentiles , paul to macedonia , not bithynia , act. . now is there nothing of this in the ordinary pastors , but private men must be heirs to these apostolick warnings from god. . it must follow , if pastors be now so confined to one congregation in all pastoral actings , then all pastoral care of apostles for vacant charges , for planting of new churches , relief of the poor , removing divisions &c. act. . & & . . & . , . & , , , &c. cor. . . act. . . & . . & . . & . , , . were temporary and apostolick stirring● , not pastoral duties now , but such as died with the apostles ; which is contrary to the wisdome of christ. mr. h. if government by independent congregations be insufficient , because it authorizeth not persons to be pastors over pagans , government by synods is sick of the same disease . ans. we judge the essence of a pastor not to stand in the call and choice of those to whom they are pastors ; for it makes paul , barnabas and the apostles to be no pastors to the gentiles and to the heathen , to whom they preach , and maketh the apostles as apostles to be no pastors . . synods from act. . and act. . may lend men authorized with pastoral power to heathens to spread the gospel , and private men as no pastors , but as private men , are intruders authorized by mr. h. for they have no promise , such as pastors have by mat. . , . mark . , . ier. . , , . to plant churches among the heathens , nor is there a warrant to say that evangelists are ordinary officers left by christ to plant churches . if richard hooker have any ground from eusebius or scripture for evangelists now , or in trajans time , he must shew that they have the gift of tongues : for how could evangelists be fellow-helpers to preach the gospel to the churches planted by the apostles , if they were not an extraordinary office onely ? see those divines in the margin , and my learned and dear brother m. george gillespy , miscel. quest . c. . if the church should send any to the heathen any way rip● for the gospel . these could be no other than ordinary pastors to them . i omitted that of mr. h. there is nothing act. . but any one might have done . ans. if he mean , that any one private man might have chosen apostles , he speaks wonders ; if he mean peter might have called matthias to be an apostle , . it s without practise , that apostles could call apostles . . it follows not therefore it was not a synod . paul did more in writing scripture , than if alone he had penned the decrees , acts . & . . but mr. cotton and all his brethren will deny m. h. his consequence ; ergo , there is no synod at all , act. . mr. h. if the apostles by extraordinary power cared for the poor , acts . ergo there was a synod . ans. the antecedent is not mine , but false . . there was no doubt but ordinary pastors might oversee the poors goods of many churches . chap. xi . of the national church , and the lawfulness of a national covenant . mr. h. the greater authority of the politick whole body ( saith mr. r. ) should help the weaker parts , cor. . , . ans. it s true : but there is no national church under the new testament to help the congregational church , nor are churches christian now in worse ●ase than the church of the iews , for they had a high-priest and a national worship , at which they were to meet three times in the year . ans. that there is an integral church catholick , which is more than national , is proved . . our brethren allow the association of many churches for help of counsel : and the proposition that is granted by m. h. is as true , for church help , as is said , associated churches could not yield , for union in peace and truth , except they made one visible body united . natura conjugatorum hoc ●vincit . . visible and professed covenanting with god , makes a visible church , gen . . deut. . . for thou art a holy people unto the lord thy god ; deut. . onely the lord had a delight in thy fathers , ( abraham , isaac , as a covenanted seed and church , gen. , , . & , , , . ) to love them and their seed after them . now the seed of abraham visible covenanted , by m. h. his confession was a visible church , before they had an high-priest , or a temple , or a national worship in abrahams house , ergo , the high priesthood and national worship was accidental to the visible jewish church . if it be said , ye● , but they were in abrahams time a congregational church . it s answered , yet then priesthood , temple , and national worship differenced not the church of the jews from the church of the gentiles . our brethrens argument in this , is of the same stamp with that of the murtherers of steven , acts . steven all along in his apologie refutes them , and ●aith , the jews were a true church in egypt , when they had no temple , no ceremonies , no national worship , but by faith onely rested upon the promises . so calvin , gualther , bullinger , brentius , marloratus , beza , contend , that steven his apologie had been impertinent , if this had not been his scope . . they were a visible church in egypt multiplied above an hundred congregations , exod. . , , . more in number than the egyptians , and the lords covenanted church , exod. . , , . & . . . obliged to sacrifice to god , exod. . . and did eat the passover , and were circumcised in egypt , exod. . , , & . , , , &c. when as yet aaron was not consecrated high-priest , and there was no temple , nor any national temple-worship thrice a year at that time in the world . . when priesthood , temple-national-worship thrice a year , sacrificing are removed , iudah remained in the babylonish captivity , the visibly covenanted people of god obliged to pray to him with their faces toward the temple , king. . . dan. , , . and this is no more one national worship , than the hearing of the word , and receiving the seals of the n t. are one national worship to all the protestant church-members in scotland . . that which is common to gods people of the jews , and to egypt and assyria , and the people of god in the gentiles , is no distinguishing character differencing the jewish church , as national from the christian church as not national , quae sunt communia ●a non distingunnt . but to profess , say and swear by the lord , and give him publick church-worship , agree to egypt and assyria , and to kingdoms and nations of the new testament , as to the jewish nation ; as isa. . . it shall come to pass in the last dayes , ( under the new testament ) v. . that many people shall go , and say , come ye , and let us go up to the mountain of the lord , to the house of the god of iacob , and he will teach us of ●ù wayes , &c. so isa. . . god shall bless thus , saying . blessed be egypt my people , and assyria the work of my hand , and israel my inheritance . which the seventh angel declares to be fulfilled in the new testament , rev. . . the kingdoms of this world are become ( the kingdoms ) of our lord , and of his christ , and he shall reign for ever and ever . so is the same , psal. . , . & . , , . & . , , . & . , , , . & . , . & . , , . mal. . . isa. . . & . , , , , . & . , , , & . , , , , . & , , , , , , &c. ier. . , . zech . , . nor will it help a whit , to say , o but the kingdoms visibly covenanted under the new testament , have not all one temple , nor one national worship in the way of the iews . it s answered , that was accidental to the visibly covenanted nation ; for as a visibly covenanted nation they the same way worshipped the same god in their synagogues , and in a church-way as a church-jewish , as we worship god in a church-way in one single congregation . temple-worship agreed to them not as a visible church , but as such a special paedagogical visible church . . the being a national church in that sense , to wit , typically national , doth not essentially difference the church of the jews from the church of the gentiles , as to the internal parts constituent of a visible church . for . peter saith , pet. . , . of the gentiles , what the lord of his people israel , exod . , . said , but ye are a chosen generation , a royal priesthood , an holy nation , ( for he writes to visible professors then dispersed , as beza and others , and the text evinceth ) a peculiar people , that ye may shew forth the praises ( in publick church-profession , pet. . , . by hearing , baptism , pet. . ● . and visible feeding of the flock by called ministers , pet. . , . eschewing false teachers , pet. . , , . &c. and receiving messengers , sylvanus and others , sent to you to water the planted churches , pet. . ) of him who hath called you out of darkness to his marvello●● light . . the jews and gentiles are made one catholick church , the partition wall now being broken down , ephes. . , , , . isa. . . & . , , . & . , , , . & . , , , . and have communion in visible ordinances , isa. . , , . zech. . , to . isa. . , , , , . . the churches of the jews and gentiles have the same head and king in them , reigning in the same ministery and word , hos. . . eph. . . & . , , . col. . . saved by faith , and the same grace of christ , acts . , , , . & . , . heb. . , , , — cor. . . they did all eat the same spiritual me●t , and did all drink the same spiritual drink ( for they drank of the same spiritual rock , and the rock was christ. ) here our brethren argue from the constitution and matter , visible sain●s , as mr. h. frequently , and the same formal cause , the church covenant in the church of the jews , when it seems to make for them ; and when the government makes against them , then they reject the argument from the jewish church . . what agrees to the church of the jews as a religious society , to keep peace and religion in purity , and to purge out offenders , and agreed to them in a moral , and no typical consideration , that agrees to us also . but national assemblies and national engagements for religion , agreed to the jewish church in a moral consideration , as it cannot be shewn there was any thing typical in that assembly at mizp●h , judg. . but to cognosce of the publick wickedness in the matter of the levites concubine . the revenge was indeed civil , but the assembly , for a scandal which made religion to be evil spoken of , was a religious meeting , for no such folly should be done in the israel of god. and the meeting of the whole congregation at shilo● in their heads was religious , to condemn the new altar , as was reported , set up by the two tribes , iosh. . , , &c. and the assembly of israel at mount carmel , kings . procured by elijah , was to prove that iehovah was the lord , and for the keeping of religion pure . and the covenant that ioshua made with the people , and that which iehoiada made between the lord and the people , that they should be the lords people , iosh. . . kings . . and that the people sware under asa , chron. , , , . were morally binding covenants , prophecied to be under the new testament , isa. , . & . . the egyptians shall vow a vow to the lord. so zanchy . there was indeed a thing temporary , and some typicalness in the manner of the punishing the breach of it , diut . . , . & . , , . but that ceremonial kinde of punishment did not belong to the essence of national covenants , and therefore makes not the national covenant to be typical , and not morally binding to christians , no more than mr. hooker will say , that the law of punishing capitally false prophets seducing to apostasie , and divers other laws to which something typically did belong but accidentally , doth not , as touching their substance , obligeth us christians . so were also councels morally binding to us , and consequently engagements and subscriptions to them and their act● . nor can any say , but upon the supposition that christ hath appointed officers for his house , but it was a moral duty , not typical ( the rule acts . & . & . & . going before ) and warranted by the law of nature ; that the nicone councel about anno should convene against arrius denying christ to be god equal with the father , and by the emperors authority : and that in the councel of constantinople about ann . . macedonius denying the holy ghost to be god , should be condemned : and nestorius affirming two persons in christ , ann . . and that eutyches holding one nature to be in christ after the incarnation , and so confounding the humanity and divinity together , should be condemned in the councel of chalcedon ann . . see for more of this , authors cited in the margin , and their judgement of councels . . how shall egypt , isa. . . assyria , ibid. be a covenanted nation to god ? by our brethrens way , they must be a covenanted nation only in parts , as members of an independent congregation ; and so none shall be visible covenanters with god , as isa. . but their visible members . mr. h. to covenant with god is a free act , no prince can compel a nation to swear a covenant national . ans. then a prince cannot compel a single man baptized , to hear the word , nor a minister to do his duty , to preach or feed , for these should be free acts in order to god , nor can a judge by this compel a single man to witness the truth ; for swearing should be a voluntary act of worshipping of god : but a pr●nce and state can compel people to do a known duty of adhering to the worship of god , chron. . which they in circumcision undertook before to do , which duty ought in foro dei , to be willing . mr. h. an oath to keep gods commandments ( saith mr. r. ) is a part of the third command , psal. : . we are to contend for the faith , jude 〈◊〉 . . and profess god before men ; that which bindes a man morally , binds a nation . ans. davids ●aking an oath , was upon lawful grounds , to a lawful thing : but national churches , and national covenanting are now abrogate . ans. then a desire to preserve religion which is called in question in the land , and to transmit it safe to posterity , be a lawful ground , as it is , and to continue religion be a lawful thing , and to remain the lords people , we have these two , which by mr. h. made davids taking of an oath lawful : ergo , so must our national oath , by mr. h. be lawful . . that a national church meeting all in one place at once to worship god , is abrogate : we say , the church of the jews was no such church , nor contend we for any such national church . but if a national church swearing a covenant to worship the lord in sincerity , in parts , in several congregations be abrogate ; then suppose all england were visible saints , and all moulded in single independent congregations , it were unlawful for all the members to swear their church-covenant : why ? all national churches are abrogate , saith mr. h. but is not here a national covenant , such as we desire granted by mr. h. . we contend not for a whole nation meeting in one place to swear . but sure all the land of iudea , and they of ierusalem were all baptized of john , mark . . and all divines grant there is a religious vow and covenant in baptism . here is such a national covenant of all the land of iudea as we contend for , as lawful under the new testament . . suppose the turk came with a huge army against britain with fire and sword , to kill old and young , except we will deny christs gospel , and our baptism : mr. h. by his way thinks it judaisme for the prince and parliaments , to command all between sixty and sixteen to rise in arms , and to swear an oath to king and state : that we shall confess christ before men , and stand by the gospel and fight to the death , and die a nation of martyrs , before we yield to that turkish tyranny . why ? a national oath is iudaisme : for as a man is to confess christ before men , mat. . . so far more a nation when called thereunto . . to take a covenant should be a free ecclesiastical act . no prince can compel to national oaths : it s my prayer to god that our brethren in new england , be not compelled to quit christian religion , as we in scotland were thralled to embrace popery by the domin●ering power of prelates . and shall it be judaisme for protestant nations to swear the like , if the man of sin should blow the trumpet , and raise all the catholick romans i● christendom , against the lamb and his followers ? . if it be lawful for one professor to avow christ before men , mat. . . mark. . . luke . . & . . rev. . , , . shall not egypt , asyria be obliged to set up ( as it were ) altars to the lord , and speak the language of canaan , now that is a professed engaging to avow the lord : now i might put mr. h. to it , and it s but an anabaptist ground , to seek a warant for a national covenant under the new testament ; for i again desire him to give me a warrant for a national profession . . a national promise to be the lords people . . a national confession of sins , and of leaving of the truth . . a national petitioning for grace to avow the truth to the end , and to transmit it pure to posterity . . a national confession of faith , except we argue thus , a single man does this , a david warrantably did swear , ps. . . ergo , a nation may do the like . . the examples of the jews church are moral , not typical : t●e oath was not tied to temple , sacrifice , or the like . . it s prophesied there shall be swearing , and subscribing to the lord , and that the jews shall renew their covenant to god , i●r . . , . see tim. . . . an oath is a law-band against back sliding under the new testament , as under the old enjoined in the third commandment . and there be warrants for oaths in the new testament , rom. . phil. . . thes. . . cor. . & . . rom. . . matth. . . it is moral , deut. . . & . . isa. . , . & . . see par. zanchius , &c. mr. h. were the oath lawful , yet not in a private man as in a nation , yet it must suit with our strength , that which is helpful to one , because strong and able to perform , is hurtful to another . ans. to swear single life is unpossible , for there is no command binding me to it . . will mr. h. say a●l baptized by iohn , mark . . and all their church members that swear the church covenant have a like strength , and all engaged to be buried with christ in baptism , rom. . . cor. . . gal. . . col. . , . all asa and iehoiadah their covenants had alike strength ? mr. h. the ground is worse , to wit , that which ties one man , ties a nation : a man is not morally tied to keep gods commandments ; he may live all his life and never take a private oath , and not sin ; if he swear , this is a moral command to keep his oath , his manner of swearing seems to be private , it s but a free-will offering . ans. to lay bands of promises and oaths upon a back-sliding heart , is commanded in the third command , and is not judaical , gen. . . gen. . . psal. . . psal. . . it s prophesied as a moral duty of egypt converted under the new testament , isa. . . they shall vow a vow to the lord , all the gospel purposes and resolutions spoken to the lord in praying , in suiting grace to do duties , confessing sins are so many gospel vows laid upon the heart , to do such duties : nor is there a formal swearing required in vows made to god. and this is sinful omission of a morally obliging duty , and morally obliging one man : so it obligeth a nation , as affiirmative precepts do : and this smels of anabaptism to cry down all gospel-vows . . the manner of swearing to continue in the professing of faith , when temptations from the prince , and edicts to receive the mass book are no more private and arbitrary vows , then the oath of your church covenant . . it s poor divinity to say that the free-will offerings to the tabernacle and temple were free , that is , arbitrary , so that a man might have lived all his life , and never been guilty , though all his life he never offer a free-will offering to tabernacle , temple , or to the lord , as a man may all his life never swear a national covenant , be guilty of no sin ; so he may well say a man all his life may give nothing to the poor , to hospitals , to maintain the ministry , and schools , and yet not be guilty , for all these are free-will offerings . it s a gross mistake , to say the free-will offerings were not commanded , as well as all sacrifices and other offerings , exod. . , . levit. . . deut. . . they are free , not from a commanding law ( i am ashamed of such weak conceits ) but are free in regard of the willing heartiness of givers ; and because the determinate quantity precisely fell not under a command , as in other offerings , but was referred to the holy freedom of the offerer . mr. h. the rule is uneven , a particular man may engage not to drink wine , as hurting his health and soul — a scholar swears he will study painfully ; a plow man he shall labour diligently ; shall the whole land be tyed to such ●●ths ? yea , the contrary rule holds for the most true . ans. a mistaken rule is soon made uneven ; what morally binds one single man , not as a scholar , or a plow-man , or such a special professor , but as a church-member , baptized , circumcised , as a visible professor , as to keep the lords commandments , psal. . . to be the lords people , to continue sound in the faith , to confess christ before men , when called to it , matth. . . to seek the lord god of israel , chron. . . king. . . that also morally binds the whole nation , be it egypt or assyria , in covenant with god , when he shall call them to lay the band of an oath upon themselves , as being tempted by higher powers to deny the truth , and embrace popery , as was our case in scotland ; and this is our rule . mr. h. deviseth an uneven rule , and would father it upon me . a plow man as a special professor swears he shall painfully till the earth : erg● , all in covenant with god may swear , be they kings , nobles , barons , burgesses , and all the land may swear they shall desert all callings , and only till the earth . the like is to be thought of the other oath , which often is the drunkards oath , he shall never drink wine , and with a spoon he sips till he be drunk : ergo , all the nation may so swear ; but i know no such rule . it shall be mr. h. or any mans , not mine . mr. h. the ends of general reformation may be attained by the magistrate , commanding all the churches in their several assemblies to attend the mind of christ , to humble themselves and fast , and if churches be corrupt , they may be compelled by the civil power to attend the rules of christ. ans. it s too laxily spoken , he speaks not one word of the christian magistrate or the magistrate godly and sound in saith , nor of the rule the scripture , but only of the civil magistrate , the civil power . what if he be a heathen ? what if he be a papist , a socinian ? . that the ends of reformation may be attained by the civil power only , who can believe ? for mr. h. speaks not one word of the concurrence of spiritual power and jurisdiction . will not erastians approve this , and say church-discipline is needless ? mr. h. sayes , the end of reformation may be attained by the civil magistrates commanding , &c. . mr. h. tells us often that church-duties should be willing free acts , pag. . hearing , fasting , praying , are acted by ecclesiastical policy , gods people are free and wi●●ing ; but here they may be compelled by the civil power to act these duties . m● . h. the church-power is above the synod , because the churches sent the members . ans. it only follows , that the churches are above the commissioners , as they send them , but in actu synodico & pastoraliter imperandi , as the synod pastorally teach , as mr. cotton saith , and lay on burdens , act. . the synod is above them . how the male church owe obedince to the dogmatick sentence of pastors , we heard before . mr. h. if the synod erre , churches have power to call another synod , and pass sentence against them . ans. nothing hence follows , but what i yield , the churches in their way are above , and worthier then synods that erre . mr. h. a synod may enjoyn a man to believe contradictions , two synods in two divers provinces may conclude contradictory things : a man goes to another province to dwell , he believes a contrary conclusion to what he believed before . ans. in some things of meer order in one country the sermon begins at eight or nine hours , in another province not while ten : but these are not contradictory faiths . . there is no solidity , but emptiness here , an erring synod could not jure determine contrary to the decrees of the apostles and elders , acts. . christ hath given no power to synod-assembly , or churches to conclude lyes , in dogmatick points ; the contradicent of a true and sound decree , deduced soundly from scripture is a lye , and came not from the synod . so mr. hooker may condemn ministers , churches , preachers , doctors , assemblies , all who give counsel and advice , as no ordinances of god , for the men that are ministers , churches , &c. may sinfully contradict the truth , and lye : but the ordinance lyes not . mr. h. in all synods , but an o●●umenical , its lawful to make an appeal , and therefore to refuse . ans. in no synod at all following the rule of christ , is it lawful to appeal ; but that is ever true which our saviour saith , he that despiseth you , despiseth me . it s a slandering of us , as if we taught any appeals , but from partial judges , and opressive sentences . . in general councels erring , as they are not infallible , we may appeal to another not erring general councel , and to the collective catholick church . chap. xii . of the magistrates power in convocating synods . mr. h. it belongs to the supreme magistrate ( the king ) as peculiar to his power and place , and not to the church , to enjoyn the solemn and publick concurrence of the several persons of the churches , and to appoint and nominate whom he will have to consider of those weighty and doubtsome cases which concern the publick professing and practising of the worship of god within his dominions . ans. erastians , and such as make the king the head of the church , can give no more to the prince , than mr. h. . by his royalty he onely can convene synods . . he , by that same power , chooseth the members of synods . . of his supreme power in controversies we shall hear . . the apostles , elders and church must then be in an act of rebellion in convening , act. . to choose matthias , acts . to ordain deacons , act. . & . to preach the gospel in the temple , and convene a synod , act. . from divers churches , without the knowledge or consent of the supreme power . it cannot help to say , there was no christian magistrate then ; for mr. h. sayes , it was peculiar to his power ; and proves it afterward , because arg. . pag . he cannot otherwise maintain the peace of his subjects . arg. . he cannot give them protection without this , pag. . but the heathen magistrate as a magistrate is to procure peace and protection to his subjects , rom. . , , . tim. . , . so must the apostles , who gave to caesar the things that are caesars , have laid the foundation of the gospel upon a rebellious usurping of that which is peculiar ( saith mr. h. ) to the civil power and place . . the churches of corinth , ephesus , rome , &c. must have convened to divine worship , cor. . , , &c. without warrant , for paul rebukes them for going to law before heathen judges , cor. . mr. h. they may , as christians , maintain private communion one with another ; and as they be churches , use that christian priviledge to further their own good , and promote the work by counsel : for what i do quâ ethicus , quâ oeconomicus , quâ christianus in private , appertains not to the magistrate , except it intrench upon his policy . ans. . mr. h. makes all that christians do as christians and as churches , that is , gathering of churches , hearing , partaking of seals and censures , to be private actings not belonging to the magistrate . strange it is , that the convening of the ten thousand subjects in the same place ( as our brethren say ) belongs nothing to the magistrate ; sure it sides with peace or war. and yet mr. h. saith , the magistrate may compel men to attend the mind of christ , and solemnly to humble themselves by fasting and prayer . see how these two consist . . it s strange to say the magistrate hath nothing to do with what a man doth as a moral man , as a member of a family , or as a christian so they do these things in private which they do ; which is to say the magistrate hath nothing to do with the villanies , particides , adulteries and robberies that men commit in private . and mr. h. saves not the matter by saying , the magistrate hath nothing to do with the man , to punish him ; i judge in these capacities , except he intrench upon his policy , that is , except he break his laws . but sure , he can punish no man in any imaginable capacity , private or publick , except he break his laws . beside that , it s neither law nor divinity , to say , that a man intrencheth upon the magistrates policy , and violates his laws , as ethicus , a moral man , or a member of a family either in private or publick ; for more abominable it is to say . he violates laws , and whores , murthers , robs as a christian : for christianity teacheth men to deny all ungodliness , tit. . . for he must do all these as malus civis , as a wicked member of the common-wealth . . i wonder more in what capacity the magistrate can have to do with commanding and governing men , if not as they converse morally with men , and in their families , as fathers and sons , as masters and servants , and as christians who both in private and publick may perform duties to one another , or oppress one another ; else the judge could not punish the rebellious son , the wicked servant , or the murthering father , and the oppressing master . yea , the more secret that wicked acts are , a godly magistate doth the more resemble god , who can say , as iob , chap. . . i was a father to the poor , and the cause that i knew not i searched out . nor do men , except extremely flagitious , commit villanies , robberies , murthers , parricides , adulteries , but in private : and it appertains to the ruler the more to search them out , the more privately that they be acted . but if mr. h. mean , that private actings of citizens , of members of families , of christians , that are good and indifferent , do not appertain to the magistrate , who is an adversary to him in this ? though all good actions done in private or publick deserve praise , reward and protection from the magistrate , except mr. h. expound that rom. . . do that which is good , and thou shalt have praise of the same , so thou do good in publick onely , as hypocrites : but thou shalt have no praise of the ruler , if thou do good within doors . is this good moral philosophy of mr. h ? but how godly princes may compel to external worship , see margin . mr. h. commission and just permission are all one : a ruler permits a finder to set up a school , he needs no commission . ans. if fencing be useful , the ruler must give him positive protection , as others that do well ; else if one kill him when he teaches his scholars , the ruler ought not to revenge that murther , though most treacherously committed , and say he promised to the fencer onely permission ; and yet it s worse to say the christian ruler owes to assemblies , pastors , schools onely permission . paul saith , he owes praise , rom. . . which , with good ground , famous interpreters expound to be countenanting , favour , protection , reward , stipends . and if the christian magistrate do but permit assemblies to convene , as a very episcopal man d. bilson said permissio est à magistratu , commissio à christo : what more influence ( if permission and commission be all one ) hath the godly magistrate in the publick worship of god , and assemblies of the church , then heathen magistrates , ahasuerus , the kings of chaldea , who permitted the people of god to worship the true god , esth. . v. , . dan. . v , . or the church of rome have , who by publick order establish stews , and permit fornication ? see emmanuel sa , who saith , bishops and priests are by law permitted to have whores . mr. h. arg. that a right opinion and worship of god should be openly professed within the territ●… and iurisdiction ●f a state , appertains to them , as that which comes within the verge and object of the state and policy to attend . . they could not provide that the subj●ct● live in godliness and honesty without this . . nor could be nurse-fathers to the church and religion , if they should suffer open blasphemy and idolatry to be maintained and professed . . the kings of israel did punish such crimes , not as types of christ , but by a civil power . ans. . if the magistrate have onely a permissive power here , as even now he said , how doth mr. h. again exalt the magistrate as head of the church , to inquire and judge of professions , and of true and false religions by his civil power , as after he speaks ? if he do this by an antecedent magistratical power , as mr. h. saith in the following words ; then hath god made the christian magistrate as the magistrate by the power of the sword ( for the magistrates power is formally coactive , not suasory or moral , not ecclesiastically juridical , to excommunicate ) the onely supreme judge and determiner of all true and false religions ; which bilson disclaims . henes . by his office he may deny protection and justice to all that are not of his religion , and banish them out of his dominions . it s true , they may say he plays the tyrant in that ; but yet god hath given him the onely supreme power , both to inquire ( saith mr. h. ) and judge of professions and religions , which is true , and ought to be maintained , which is false , and ought to be rejected . and if so , the many godly who fled from old england to new england , because of prelatical tyranny of conscience , did believe that the late king charles had power as a king to judge the service book and ceremonies imposed upon the godly in england , yea and upon scotland also , was the onely true religion , and had power given him of god as supreme magistrate , to command all the three kingdoms to be of the kings religion , or then let them all be banished out of his dominions : but is not this to make the king a pope , and the onely carver and lord of the faith and religion of his subjects ? and so the king , by his office , is the messenger of the lord of hosts , and a royal prophetical teacher , who watches for the souls of all his people . what scripture puts the king in such an office ? . did not the godly and sound condemn such an headship in the oath of supremacy , and in the kings proclamation ; in which he , as king , commands all to receive such a religion as he thinks fit , even the substantials of the mass , and no prayers but book-prayers ( the other prayers being fancies ? ) and this command is equal to a pastoral or synodical decree . . because it comes from the king having no act of the church , but onely having taken the counsel of his clergie , and so by civil power peculiar to his power royal and place , as mr. h. speaks , p. . . because its the onely form of worship he thinks fit . . because he commands it to all ecclesiastick persons , arch-bishops , bishops , &c. as the onely spiritual pastor of pastors on earth . hence if christ hath given such power , it s not lawful , without breach of the fifth command , to embrace or profess any religion in a christian kingdom , except it be first instamped by or with the authority of the king the head ( as the chaplain calls him ) of the churches by his royal authority . yea , our book of canons say , that christian kings now have the same power in causes ecclesiastical , that the godly kings among the iews had : and are they not then prophets by office , and may write canonick scripture , as david and solomon did ? and so we must not , without rebellion , profess the faith or the christian religion , but when , and where , such as the king commands us ; contrary to mat. . . or we are to confess christ before men , but not except the king teach and command a confession , and such a confessor ? . paul must have told us , eph . , . of the king , as well as of the apostle given to edifie the body , and gather the church , if so be that he is the onely supreme iudge of true and false religions : and he must be some spiritual officer , and one who chooseth a god and a religion to his subjects ; and he must be ●he holiest subject , who can say , the kings god is my god. when i read this , i was sad , to see mr. tho : hooker speak and write like the royalist mr. rich. hooker . . the magistrate supreme and inferiour , except mr. h. be an erastian , is a member of the church , and under the scepter of christ in the preached gospel , and to be edified by the word , seals , rebukes and censures ; for otherwise . he that despiseth you despiseth me ; and , if he hear not the church , let him be as a heathen ; and , faith comes by hearing , must suffer a strange exception in the person of the king ; he may despise pastors and the church without guiltiness , for he is above the pastors , and carves their religion , and prescribes , as our cited proclamation saith , the causes why bishops should excommunicate and censure , to wit , if they refuse the kings religion ; and mr. h. warrants him by a power peculiar and supreme so to do . . we reade not that the kings of israel and iudah prescibed what was true and false religion , but were subject to the priests and prophets , who spake the word of the lord : and the prophets rebuked kings , as ieroboam and others , for intruding themselves in that office . moses , samuel , david , solomon were prophets , chron. . . isa. . . . the magistrate is the minister of god , and bears the sword to take order with evil doers , and is custos & vindex utriusque tabulae , and the religion is supposed to be before the ruler . . it s somewhat heathenish , like numa , lycurgus , who to procure obedience and authority to themselves , gave out , that they prescribed what religion was true , and that they conversed much with god. . all questions and controversies of religion in the nation must be determined , all cases of conscience resolved by this pope , who onely can determine what is true , and what is false religion ; and the king must be the oracle and priest , with whom onely the urim and the thummim must be . . all fallings against religion must be treason against the king : whereas kings and people are rebuked , because they hearkened not to the voice of the prophets , not because disobedient to the word of the lord in the mouth of the king. either this is to take both the swords from the pope , and to give them to the king , or it is nothing : for without controversie the king bears the sword to take vengeance of him that doth evil , rom. . . pet. . . and whosoever determineth by his supreme power , what is true and false religion to all the subjects , must bear the other sword. . m. h. makes out his assertion thus : kings could not provide for their subjects , to live in godliness and honesty , except they had power to inquire and judge of true and false religions . now this is spoken of nero and of heathen kings , tim. . , . but out of doubt , god never made heathens , that are enemies to true religion , supreme determiners of true and false religion : and if this agree to rulers as rulers , as m. h. saith , it is peculiar to their power and place ; then all rulers , heathen , christian , high and low , sound in the faith , and corrupt and heretical , should be carvers of so many sundry gods and religions . but the next reason is ill and worse , if because the king is a nurse-father to the church , he must be father , and a begetter both of religion and of the church , & because he protects and defends the true church , then true religion must be before him : as also when mr. h. saith , that the prince is a nurse father to the church , he means , the independent church onely , so that he owes no protection to presbyterians , nor justice to them . and if the nurse-fathers care be , that there should be a right opinion and worship openly professed within his territories , the magistrate is to do this no other wayes , but by the sword , for another power he hath not ; then must he with the sword compel all within his dominions to be professed members of independent churches , else m. h. judges there is some other sound worship and sound profession : but this compelling of men to be church-members , mr. h. before disclaimed . mr. h. doth also suspiciously give his sense of toleration , while he limiteth the magistrates power , to the not suffering of open blasphemy and idolatry . but beside open blasphemy , there is blasphemy pepery in the hesds of it , many dangerous errors about superstructures and non-fundamentals , are these erroneous opinions professed to be tolerated ? mr. h saith nothing against the belgick and socinian toleration of all errors , except fundamentals , which are made few by them , and hard to be known : and what the gospel suffers by the toleration holden by the independents in england , and swarms of sects there , is too manifest to the christian world . see the arminians and socinians in the margin . let the reader judge of mr. h. his reason , the kings of israel did punish blasphemy and idolatry , not as types of christ , but by a civil power . mr. h. shall not in haste teach us what was typical , what moral . mr. lockier and others make the constitution of the jewish church typical , and of another nature from the new testament church ; others , not so . but i am afraid our brethren augment the kalendar of typicals , until the old testament be well near laid aside , as many anabaptists do . the kings of israel punished blasphemers , not as types of christ , but by civil power . but ioh● goodwyn will reply , was it a civil power morally that belongs to all christian magistrates to destroy the city , in which the inhabitants are seduced to idolatry , and that all the inhabitants and the cattel be utterly destroyed , and the spoil burnt with fire , as deut. . , ? to punish the cattel of idolaters and apostates with death , and burn all the goods with fire , surely must be temporary then . but let mr. h. shew what is typical in a national oath : they say , there is no shadow of it in the new testament . ans. if the meaning be , there is no express command , no practise of it in the new testament , or for it , and therefore it must be typical . . by this argument negative , this is not in the new testament , ergo there is no warrant for it in scripture , is fair for all who would casheer all the books of the old testament as no scripture ; and so that the magistrate should take away the life of one that commits sodomy , bestiality , murthers father or mother , must be typical , and not obliging under the new testament : for let mr. h. shew an express command or practise for it in the new testament . a general there is , rom. . but socinians , anabaptists tell us , you must not take away the life of him who is created according to the image of god , by logick and argumentative consequences , but by express law. . let it be shewed by what express precept or practice in the new testament , a rich son should take in to his house and feed and maintain his father-in-law , and his grand-father , and his grand-mother that are begging . . mr. h. may also press us for an express precept , or practice of a promissory oath in a private person , as well as in a nation ; and for a covenant of peace by oath between a christian nation , and a neighbour christian nation in the new testament : or suppose a christian nation should neighbour with a nation that worships the sun , compelling all strangers that come within their bounds , by death , to deny jesus christ , & worship their god the sun , there must be an express particular precept for a covenant oath , for peace to warrant such a paction , that the heat●… nation shall kill none of theirs for refusing sun-worship . . the particular temptations that may tempt ionathan to be on his own fathers side against david , and might stir david up against saul and all his seed , were a sufficient call to put david and ionathan under the tye of the oath of god one to another . there were good grounds of the covenant between laban and iacob . and some nations designed of god should submit , suit peace , and embrace the jewish religion . was there not cause , why both they and israel should lay upon themselves the band of a covenant oath ? that both of them should be the united confederates of god : and the like national temptations press a nation now , when it s become the lords covenanted kingdom , as isa. . . rev. . . which within and without is enticed to receive the mark of the beast , and his name on their foreheads , to guard themselves against such snares by a national oath , not that every one of the nation , though ignorant , profane , and malignant , and treacherous enemies to the truth should be admitted in covenant . and mr. h. seems to say that promissory oaths of single persons under the new testament are not necessary ; and ( say i ) not lawful , if not necessary . for mr. h. saith , a man is not necessarily and morally tied to swear or vow . and i believe a man may live all his life and never take a private oath , i say , private betwixt god and himself , to keep his laws , and yet not be guilty of sin in so doing . mr. h. speaks most mistakingly of the doctrine of vowes , as if he had not read our divines . for . our national vow that we shall be the lords people , cannot be called a private vow . . if a vow to keep gods commandmens tye not morally , and so be not necessary , it is not lawful ; and if so , we must condemn these general vows which one makes to god in prayer , psal. . . i will bless the lord at all times , psal. . . i will behave my self wisely in a perfect way . who can pray in faith to god in private , but they must engage themselves to god to run , if he draw ? and what suits an enlarged heart , and strength against temptations ? and who can pray for faith , and perseverance , but they vow new obedience ? ●●d yet mr. h. saith , a man may all his life never vow betwixt god and himselfe to keep the commandments of god , and not be guilty . as for vowes of particular things , vows concerning spare dye● , our divines , a● calvin , professors of leyden , tilenus , bacanus , teach they are utilia potius quam necessaira , useful , and in regard of particular temptations , profitable rather then necessary . now one national vow is to the whole duties of the first and second table , which we tye our selves to perform both in baptisme , in the lords supper , in selfe-judging , in confession of sin . and . to say a man all his life may never be tyed to a vow , is to say a man may never pray , never confess his sins , never speak in private his godly gospel-resolutions , and purpose of heart to cleave to the lord , and yet not be guilty . . this is to make all gospel-vows to be unnecessary , and will worship under the new testament . whereas papists tell us in the mass they make a general vow of obedience to god. see durantus and gab. biel. mr. h. for if the magistrate were bound to follow the judgement of the churches and ministry , if they should judge a toleration of all religions lawful , or judge the false to be true , he then were bound to nurse the false religion , and false churches . ans. . no shadow of consequence is here , for neither magistrate nor people can be bound to follow the judgement of the churches or ministry , farther then they follow the rule of the word , they follow their judgement conditionally , not absolutely and simply ; and it is a great calumny of mr. burton and our brethren , that we lay bands on the consciences of prince and people to follow the acts and determinations of the church , be they true or false : and that there is no place left to appeal to the next , or a better informed synod , and to the consciences of the collective church of the godly judicious professors , and to protest and deny obedience to erring assemblies . if it be said , but where is there a iudge to determine whether this or another well informed synod , or the conscience of the collective body of the godly be right ? this argument falls with equal weight upon all judicatures , all judges , parliament , prince and councellors with him , & upon all assemblies ; for what they determine , be it toleration of all blasphemies , or a strictest uniformity in worship and religion , it hath no power to bind the conscientious and moral practices of prince or people , more then to bind their conscience by this : for the fraternity and whole church is tyed to follow the dogmatick determination of officers , in preaching or in sentencing delinquents without gain-saying : what the officers decree ( saith mr. h. ) it is to all as the word of god. but mr. h. must answer us , churches and ministry are bound either absolutely or conditionally to follow the judgement of the king , who judgeth popery is the only true religion , to which he can tender protection . if the former , what tyranny are we under , who must submit to the religion of the prince , or be denuded of all protection , and exposed to fire and sword ? if the latter be said , to wit , that churches and ministry are only conditionally to follow the judgment of the king , so they find it agreeable to the word , otherwise not : then it must be false which mr. h. said , that the prince is the only supreme judge of all true and false religions : to say they must either obey or suffer , saith , that christ exposed all to martyrdom . mr. h. if it be in the magistrates power lawfully to forbid and hinder , then it is not in the power of the churches to do lawfullye for then the same thing should be in the same regard both lawful and unlawful●… and the rules of providence shall be opposite one to another : but the supreme magistrate may hinder any of another nation to come into his kingdom , or his own subjects to go out , otherwise he should want power to oppose them who come to lay waste the state , and should not have power to require homage of his own people . ans. . the probation of the proposition is most false , for the power of the magistrate is not to forbid , or command what he pleaseth , but according to the rule of the word , and the churches power is the same ; if both the powers be lawful , their objects cannot be contradictory : for god hath not given to two lawful powers any lawful liberty , that the one may command what is lawful , and the other what is unlawful : for then he should give a power to command unlawful things , and the command of a created power should make it lawful , which is blasphemous : this argument falls with weight upon the independent way . there is a iezabel in the independent church of thyatira , and another iezabel in the church of pergamus , each church ( say our brethren ) hath an immediate independent church-power to excommunicate . thyatira useth their power and excommunicates iezabel which is under them . pergamus absolves and defends their iezabel . both powers are highest and immediate , and countable to no juridical power on earth : both are lawful powers . then must it follow , if it be in the power of the one church , to wi● , of pergamus , lawfully to forbid and hinder the excommunication of their equally guilty iezabel and the c●…ning of her blasphemous doctrine : ( for pergamus absolves their ●…l , and commends , and defends her doctrine as so●…d and ●…g ) then it shall not be in the power of t●… lawfully to excommunicate their iezabel , and condemn he● plasphemous doctrine : for it shall follow , that the same doctrine must be in the same regard both lawful , and sound , and edifying ( saith the lawful power of pergamus ) and 〈◊〉 unlawful , and unsound , and destructive to souls , saith the lawful power of thyatira . . the probation is feeble and wacery , the king hath sufficient power to oppose wasters of his kingdom , and to require homage of his subjects . suppose he have not an unlimited power to forbid these of other nations and churches , and his own , to go to a synod , within or without his nation , for the setling of the churches in necessary peace and truth , if the churches must seek liberty and counsel for their soules good , and edification : nor hath he any lawful power from god to hinder his own subjects to send commissioners to sound and godly synods for counsel and synodical light , more then ieroboam could lawfully forbid the people to go and worship at ierusalem , upon pretence , that they might be perswaded to cleave to rehoboam their lawful prince , and waste his new kingdom : nor hath the prince an unlimited and absolute power to exact such absolute homage of his people ; nor such a power over their moving from place : for so the church independent of ierusalem confisting of ten thousand , if not more , should have no intrinsecal power to meet for the publick worship of god ; but the prince must have a lawful power to hinder their meeting , or then the church cannot have a lawful power to meet ; for the convening of ten thousands , if abused , is as dangerous for wasting of a kingdom in its own way , as the convening of a national synod , is , or may be destructive to peace . mr. h. to appoint such solemn publick assemblies is an act meerly civil ; ergo , the prince may do it . a civil act belongs not to an ecclesiastick power . a right opinion , rectus de deo sensus & cultus , of god , and a right worship of god is a meerly civil act . ans. there is nothing here sound , but evil and worse . christ ●…h given an ecclesiastick intrinsecal power to his church to meet , it being a part of his free kingdom , and he himself a free king. suppose the princes of the earth oppose , ps. . , , , , , . ps. . , , . . kings are nurse-fathers , having a civil , but cumulative power to command them to meet and assemble , but no privative power to hinder them . . this proves they may not meet in a single congregation without the leave of the heathen and persecuting magistrates , and condemns all the assembles and church-meetings of the apostolick church as rebellious ; for they had neither allowance nor command of the magistrate , yea , they were forbidden : and heathen rulers as rulers have power to oppose wasters of their kingdoms , and so had the heathen emperors in the apostles times , as well as christian magistrates have such a power . . a right sense and opinion of god is no civil act . this yet more makes the magistrate an ecclesiastick person . mr. h. to call what members of the synod he pleaseth to consult about the good of the church belongeth to the prince , and their homage requireth this , otherwise he could not maintain the peace of the subject in godliness , for providence doth not require the end , but allows also the means . ans. because the third and fourth arguments are one , they are here . . the godly and sound prince may call godly and learned divines where the churches are rightly constitute ; but when the churches make no free election of these divines , it is neither a free synod , not are the divines messengers of the churches , nor sent by the churches , as act. . , , . nor may the magistrate for the maintaining of the peace of the subjects in godliness , use what means he pleaseth for that end , but only means prescribed of god , except mr. h. can prove that christ hath annexed to the royal office , a gift of chusing members of assemblies , more excellent then is in the churches , which we read not . and if . this belong to the magistrate as the magistrate , then all magistrates , heathen , arrian , socinian , popish ( for sure they are magistrates ) must have this power , and this power only , if it be given to godly and sound magistrates , as such , mr. h. his instance of herod comes far short of this power . read then the councel of antioch holden by the arrians under constantius . then must maximus bishop of ierusalem , and iulius bishop of rome , who refused to come to that councel , be rebells by mr. h. his reason , and deny homage to the emperour . for the magdeburgenses , sozomen , socrates , tell us these godly men justly feared the princes siding with arrians , and the design of casting out of athanasius , at the assembly at antiochia , anno . and the altering of the nicene faith , as fell out : and it s known that constantius rigorously and unjustly commanded those of the councel of sirmium , anno . to recall the two confessions of faith , one in latine , another in greek , in which though abstaining from the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( which should not have been ) they gave great glory to the son of god ; yet that they too much inclined to obey his wicked design , in that he also banished many worthy bishops , liberius bishop of rome , paulinus bishop of triere , dionyfius bishop of alba , osius bishop of corduba , and others , because they refused to ratifie in the councel at millan , the deposition of athanasius , and to alter the nicene faith. see theodoret , socrates , sozo●en , ruffin . much more of the flexibleness of constantius in opposing the councel of ariminum , and in arming with power ursatius and valens to publish the summe of the arrian faith , and to eject sundry bishops , who refused to subscribe thereunto : and in gathering a councel in nica a town in thracia , which ratified the arrian faith , and called it falsely the nic●●● faith ; as if the world knew not then and now , the difference between nica in thracia , and nice in bithynia . see socrates and sozomen . who shall read the histories shall find , . that the emperors were not masters of true and false religion , as mr. h. saith . . that they had not power of chusing members of the councel . as mr. h. . that godly bishops refusing to come to corrupt councels at the command of the emperor , were not counted rebellious , as mr. h. saith . to the fifth argument , the churches need the protection of the prince in assemblies , and are to give an account to any of their faith and doings , pet. . . and far more to the christian prince : but it follows not , that they have no intrin●…l power from christ to meet themselves , if the prince refuse to convocate them , as asa , hezekiah , iosiah did , for the magistrate ought to protect the independent congregation , and every single professor : but it follows not , therefore the single congregation hath no power intrinsecal to meet for word and seals , except the prince who is a persecutor , give him leave : nor follows it yet , therefore no single member can profess christ before men and the ruler ( who often persecutes confession of christ ) except the ruler give him leave to profess christ , and to meet in a synod : for christ hath given to his church , and members thereof , power to worship him in private , in publick , in church-assemblies , and hath laid above their heads no lawful privative power of rulers to hinder his people to worship the lord god , exodus ● and the argument retorted concludes against mr. hooker . the prince hath no power under pretence of keeping civil peace to casar , to hinder actings of rendring honour to god , contrary to truth , and destructive to the gospel . chap. xiii . antiquity knew nothing of the mystery of our brethrens independent way . the external society of the church ( say the magdeburgenses is at all times mixed of good and bad . our brethren say of all visibly good , even visible converts . the magdeburgenses teach , that after paul hath commended the faith and obedience , love , sanctification , growth of grace of the visible church of rome , rom. . , . corinth , cor. . . galatia , gal. . , , . thessalonic● , thess. . , , . philippi , cap. . ver . , . and the seven churches , rev c. . & . which are commended highly by christ ; yet in the same very epistle , the mixture of visible hypocrites was to be seen among them . see fla● . illy . in catalogo testium veritatis lib. . pag. , , . pa. simpson his centuries , cent. , , &c. baron●● annales , cent. . & sequentibus , ann . , , . iacob . gualterium iesuitam in tabulâ chronographicâ , a. . seculo ad seculum . sac. . ad an . . pag. . sect . . & sequintibus see bernard . see august . tom . contra epistolam parmeniani donatista , l. , , . de baptismo contra donatistas , lib. . contra literas petiliani donatistae , lib. . lib. de unitate ecclesiae . august . contra cresconium grammaticum lib. . colla. cum donatistis . ad donatistas post collationem , l. & l. de gestis cum emerito . see cyprian . ad plebem & quinque presbyteris schismaticis factionis foelicissimi , epist. . vol. l. . epist. . cyprian . ad cornelium de ordinatione ejus à s● comprobata & foelicissimo , epist. . vol. l. . epist. . cyprian . cornelio , epist. . al. l. . ep. . cyprian . antoniano de cornelio & novatiano , epist. . al. l. . ep. . cornelius factus est episcopus à plarimis collegis nostris , qui tunc in urbe roma aderant , qui aa nos literas honorificas & ●audabiles , & testimonio suae praedicationis illustres de ejus ordinatione miserunt , &c. ib. pag. . quod vero ad novatiani personam pertinet — quisquis ille & qualiscunque est , christianus non est , qui in christi ecclesia non est — nisi si episcopus tibi videtur , qui episcopo in ecclesia à s●deci● coepiscopis facto , adulter atque extraneus episcopus fieri à desertoribus per ambitum nititur ; & cum sit à chricto una ecclesia per tolum mundum in multa concorbra aivisa , item episcopatus unus , episcoporum multorum concordi num●rofitate diffusus , isse post dei traditionem , post connexam & ubique conjunctam catholicae ecclesiae unitatem , humanam conetur ecclesiam facere , &c. mr. h. who cries out against me , because i teach , that he who is a pastor of one church , is a pastor of all the churches in the earth , may cry out against cyprian . see cyprian . cum collegis lucio papae roman ep. . al. l. . ep. . cyprianus ad stephanum de martia●o arelatensi , qui novatiano consensit , epist. . a● . l. . epist. . in all which , this is clear to cyprian : episcopatus unus , quamvisplures episcopi in ecclesia catholica , which throws down mr. h. his way of a pastor married to one single congregation . see my reverend brother mr. baily , vindication of his d●sswasive , ann . . especially to mr. cotton , cap. . sect . . pag , . there was an equality of jurisdiction in this age among the churches ; but that these writers mean not single congregations as such , that every congregation hath power to call and depose officers , i do not concide ; for they deny a supremacy to the churches they speak of here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rome . constantinople ; but these as mother cathedral churches , not as single congregations , claim supremacy , as here also they ascribe jurisdiction to associate churches . observe also , that they say the form of government of the church , was almost like to popular government , not a democracy it self . it is like in times of persecution , the meeting of christians being early in the morning , at the time of receiving of heathens to baptism ( in which all the christians , as well as the one baptizing congregation , were interessed ) and in the lords day acts of discipline have been few the magdeburgenses tell us from iustinus , from plinius his epistle to trajan , from eusebius , l. . c. . as dienysius corinthus in that place saith they read the prophets and apostles , a pastor exhorted to follow what was read , the whole company stood up and prayed , and received the lords supper , and thereby obliged themselves to walk as christians , not to kill , not to whore , &c. by doctors and rulers ministers were ordained , as the history of the apostle iohn witnesses , and casting of lots in the election of pastors . hence the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the clergie . no shadow of a male-church here . tortullian shews , that in church-meetings there were exhortations , corrections , and divine censures — and the whole elders that are approved , rule in the meeting . elders ( faith he ) who have obtained that honour , not by price , but by a good testimony . now this being done by the whole congregation meeting for publick prayer , could not be done by the people , and by women , except consenting : for tertullian saith , de veland . virg . non permittitur muli●ri in ecclesia loqui : sed nec docere nec tingere . eusebius l. . c. . when origen was ordained bishop , saith , and cyprian l. . epist. . ad co●n●l . all the nearest bishops of the province came , and laid hands on him prasente plebe , saith cyprian . the fourth age sheweth what is true and false antiquity : and whereas there was in the beginning thereof a sad desolation through the persecution of dioclesian ; so also there came a change in a glorious manner , most suddenly , by constantine . eusebius l. . de vita constan. mentions the synod of nice , famous like the meeting of the church in the pentecost , acts . as the magdeburgenses , cen . . c. . p , . say . now since the gospel was spread through europe , africa and asia , as eusebius and as a●kanafius , from the east to the west : and the magdeburgenses cite iulius firmicus maternus , optat. milevitanus , basilius , teaching , that the church of christ was all the world over where the sun did shine , east and west . south and north. let the impartial reader judge , if it have a shadow of reason , that the churches who sent commissioners to this famous synod of nice , were onely congregational churches . . the magdeburgenses set down numerous and famous churches in asia , in palestine , caes●rea , tyrus and zidon , in gaza . arabia , syria , mesopotamia , pamphilia , cilicia , lydia , phrygia , bi●hynia , h●llespontus , galatia , paphlag●nia , cappadocia , persia , &c. in the isles in europe , in africa , most of all sent messengers to this synod : what an assembly must this be , if petty congregational churches sent commissioners ? what house could contain them ? there was . a catalogue of bishops sent to this synod , before this called overseers , and prapositi by cyprian , not pastors simply of one single congregation . . eusebius tells of provincial synods , and so of provincial churches , which must have sent commissioners . there was a synod of tyrus under constantint , a synod in s●l●ucia . see the magdeburgenses . . the number of those added to the church , saith , that they could not onely be congregational churches ; theodoret saith , that constantine writes to eusebius nicomediensis , there was a great multitude in the town named from himself added to the church , so that they behoved to be divided into many churches : and who would deny this to be a presbyterial church ? nicephorus saith , when constantine was baptized , more than twelve thousand men , beside women and children , were baptized , and many added to the church . it s apparent , the very nature of christian religion , requires congregational and synodical meetings . galerius maximinus having given toleration for christian religion , though he condemned the religion it self , incontinent in every city congragations are erected , and synods or presbyteries kept , say the magdeburgeuses from eus●bius . donatists excuse their separation from the church , because in communion of the sacraments mali maculent bonos . august . for ordination and election of ministers by the votes and laying on the hands of the pastors , and consent of the people , without the device of a male-congregation destitute of officers : see the magdeburgenses , cent . . c. . p. , . who cite bosil . epist. . ad m●l●t . th●●dor . l. . c. . the epistle of the ni●●n● councel to them of alexandria , as th●●doret cites it , l. . c. . the history of ambro●●us mediol●… , as secrates hath it , l. . c. , &c. saith the same . see magdiburg . vol. . cant . . c. . p. . see vol. . cent . . c. . p. , . the magdeburgenses say , the reason of multiplying of officers , bishops , presbyters , deacons , lectors , canons , exorcists , &c. was in the end of the third age , ecclesiastick congregations began to be multiplied . . metropolitans , archbishops , bishops , deacons , archdeacons in rome , in constantinople , as sozomen l. . c. . in alexandria , as sozomen l. . c. . and optat. mil●vitanus l. . contr . parmen . and the canon of the councel of neocaesarea ordains , that in amplu civitatibus , in large cities there should not be above seven deacons . now sense and reason would say , there could be no ground of appointing such a number of officers , if rome , constantinople , antioch , alexandria had been all one single congregation , meeting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , within the same walls , and not a large presbyterial church . . they must be great strangers to rome , who know not that there were at rome many churches and meeting-places consecrated to the saints ; and that the synod of nice , as ruffin●s and athanasius say , ordained the bishop of rome to care for the churches of the suburbs , as the magdeburgenses say : yet all was called the church of rome . see the magd. burgenses vol. . cent . . c. . p. , . of the churches mixture of wheat and chaff , see a●gustins and prosper , who say , evil men , if they infect not , must be tolerated , and the good not separated from , because of the evil known to be such : otherwise donatus and his never taught men to separate from latent hypocrites , which are seeming and visible saints ; as also they must be tolerated , that they may be converted . augustine asserts a catholick integral visible church in ps. . corpus autem ejus non est ista a●● illa eccl●s●a , sed t●t● orbe diffusa — for the whole church , saith he , is made up of all the faithful having christ for their head. for the ordination of pastors by the laying on of hands of the ministers and consent of the people , se● the magdeburgenses . so was chrysosto●●● ordained cons●nsu cleri & populi constantinopolitani , as socrates l. . c. . and sozomen l. . c. . witness . so saith augustine , that not the church of carthage onely , and of numidia , sed propinquiores episcopi , the neare●● bishops and pastors laid on hands . see the magdeburg . for association of churches , see the magdeb. vol. . cont . . c. . p. , . , . the magdeburgenses tell us of famous and celebrious churches in the sixth age in asi●● , africa and europe , in renowned c●●ies , which had eminent bishops in them , and new churches buil● espe●ially . iustiman the emperour built in constantinople in thra●i● the noble church of sophia , incomparable for magnificence to any in-the world , saith e●agr●us and nicephorus : and where there be many places of meeting for worship in great cities , constantinopie , auti●ch , the church of that city must be presbyt●rial , not congregational to sounder antiquity . that the church of rome could not meet congregationally , the multitude of churches dedicated to saints do evince . magdeb. cent . . c. p. . quod saepe in publicis locis romae christiani ad sacra peragenda convenerint , ●estantur innu●era ●lla delubra 〈◊〉 sabellico expressa , ut templum cosinae & damiani , saturnii : vaticanum , batjonae , sop●iae , euphemiae marcelli , pancratii . mention●●● facit gregorius papa templorum petri & p●●li romae , agathae — caesa●ii martyris , & jul●i , mariae , agnetis , & foelicitatis , stephani , andreae , &c. it s true , many of these churches ( say the magdeburg●●ses ) were built not so much for the worship of god , as for super●… : yet no sober man can say , the christian● in ro●● could m●●● in one congregation , but that many churches were needful . see for association of churches the magdeburg●●s . that the visible church is made up of good and evil , see the magdeburg , who ●i●e hayme and others ; though in this and former ages gross corruptions daily grew . so the magdeburg●●ses vol. . cent . . cite thophylact for the same : and vol. . c●nt . . c. . p. , . and cent . . c. . p. . the magdeburgenses ascribe the power of the keys , matth. . to peter , representing pastors ; and for this they cite theophylactus , and radulphus , ausbertus . aus●…s gives so the power of binding and loosing to the priests , e●●● . in evang. as excommunication shou●● 〈◊〉 by the mouth of the church , the priest : for when the priest excommunicates , the whole body of the church acts in him . see the magdeb. cent . . ausel . in mat. . qu●r●● re●●seritis ] nec 〈◊〉 apostolis , sed ●●nibus episcopis , pr●… , haec potest as conces●● est . see the magdeburg●nses citing the schoolmen , thomas aqu●●●● , b●…tura , albertus to this purpose also . for the notes of the true church in the dark midnight of popery , petr. waldensis in france , ann . . taught the same with us : and yet mr. hooker refusing these marks , tells us , truth is the daughter of time , and excellently doth the twelfeth age agree with the first age. of pet. waldensis were the waldenses , the sincere part of the church giving ●estimony against the daily growing corruptions of rome . the magdeburgenses in their preface to the third volume of their history , cent. . sunt autem not● 〈◊〉 so● prop●●●● 〈◊〉 ga●manae ecclisiae christi , verbi dei praedicat●● 〈◊〉 ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ 〈◊〉 sacramentoru● usus iustitut●● à christo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 studio conjunctus . these men knew true antiquity well . h●… . w●lif , ierome of prague , and the renowned martyrs of christ sealed with their blood the same truth , as antiquity witnesses of them . mr. 〈◊〉 . calleth the preaching of the gospel a common adjunct of the church . but we appeal to antiquity ( though the scripture be above all ) for a warrant of their church . a tertullian offend● at such who say the apostles were ignorant of any thing , to whom the lord gave the keyes to open and 〈◊〉 heaven , which secre●s the people know not : and the apostles d● that in opening and s●utting heaven , which only god can 〈◊〉 . c christ ga●● the k●… ( & per ●um ecclesiae ) to peter , and by him to the ch●rch . epiph●ni●● d ass●●●● 〈◊〉 universal integral church , though the tongues be divers : and god keeps carefully his church spread through all the world , as dwelling in one and the same house : e 〈◊〉 , it s not in p●rygia , cilicia , and pa●phylia onely , but all the world over . and he cites that of christ : this cannot be a congregation . f lactantius is for our notes of the church , not for mr. h. the ph●yges , novatiani , valentiniani , marcionitae , authae piani , aut a●riani , leave off to be christians : that then is the only catholick church , which retains the true worship of god. eusebius pamphil. g the church is diffused all the world over , east and west , south and north. he expounds matth. . the church upon the rock , to be the church from the east to the we●● , which fills all the world. de prop. evangil . l. . c. . pag. . then it s not one single congregation . gregorius nuzianz●nus orat. ● . de 〈◊〉 partis , the people give their consent only to ordain the bishop . and this election of bishops , ibid. page . i● to be committed to the cleaner part of the people , to sacred ministers , and to our nazarites , and not to the foolish and rash common people , tum eximia ac purissimae p●puti parti , hoc est , & 〈◊〉 ministris & nostris nazar●● , quibus vil sol● vel pot●ssimum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 illes commitis op●rtebat ( sic enim nun●… ecclesia 〈◊〉 esse● ) ac non 〈◊〉 qui opibus & potentia 〈◊〉 ( magistratees notat ) a●● stultae ac te●erariae plebi . it s clear that nazianzen gives a presidency to teachers over the church , when h he forbids that young men , before they have hair on their face , be 〈◊〉 to reach old men ; and they object ( saith he ) daniel : but that which rarely falls out , is no law to the church , one swallow makes not the spring : but election here by nazianzen is put for the whole calling of men to the ministry . the church of byzan●… 〈◊〉 commended for discipline by nazianzen . see in the church a councel of prebyters decored with age and wisedom , an high senate which they all honoured : nor did he in a grave synod dec●… the praises of the discipline of a single congregation . i nazianzen hath a savory discourse of the order and gifts , and variety of members in christs body , and cites cor. . . not of a single congregation . for . he saith we are all one body in christ : . he saith there are in the church apostles , prophets , &c. the eye walks not , but is the captain ; nor does the foot fee , but walk , and move from place to place ; nor doth the tongue receive sounds , that is proper to the hearing ; nor doth the ●ongue speak , but the tongue , &c. and . he speaks of a number of prophets , of which two or three prophesie by course , and one interprets . basilius magnus nicopolitanis presbyteris epist. . tom. ult , 〈◊〉 ex albo vest●● defecis , & 〈◊〉 unus & alter conseculus est — 〈◊〉 adhu● corpus vestrum est per die gratiam 〈◊〉 , basil. ci●●bus nicopolitanis disp . epist. . tom. ult . dispensationes ecclesiasticae fiunt quidem per 〈◊〉 quibus est illorum cura conoredita , verum à plobe confir●antur . basil. epist. . vol. ult . presbyteris a●tiochiae solicitudinem illam quam 〈◊〉 ecclistis d●… , ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , qui vobis t●tius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 charitate● & affectum expon●i . at the first reading a presbyterial body over divers congregations appears . theophylact. k every one of us is the church , and the house of god , and if we continue in the faith confessed , the gates of hell shall not prevail against us , that is , sins . . the power of binding and loosing he expounds to be the power of remitting of sins , which peter hath , and such as have the office 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of an oversee● . l theoph. if thy brother offend thee ] thy brother only of the same congregation whereof thou act a member , saith mr. h●●ker . nay , saith theophylact , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , m whose sin ye remit ] . see ( saith he ) the dignity of the priests : for it god who forgives sins , but they are honoured as god. n on these words , we judge those th●● are within . ] are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , christians judged by us ? but a more terrible iudge shall judge those that are with●● . o isidorus hispalens . episcopus , the church is called catholick . quasi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for it is not limited to some countreys , as the conventioles of hereticks , but spread all the world over . the con●…tions of hereticks are only in ordinary , not catholick , but very rarely . see him ( p ) elsewhere . what saith these called the canons of the apostles deserve , i dispute not ; they m allow no bishop to he ordained without two or three bishops . the n bishops of the whole earth , that is , from all churches ( not congregations , that was impossible ) were at the first nic●ns councel . in number subscribed . o a bishop should be ordained by all the bishops of the province ; if that be heard by three , the rest consenting by their letters . p more then two hundred bishops in the councel of ephesus condemned nestorius . among the articles of ioh. wiclif this is the seventh , if a man be duely contrite for sin , any farther confession is needless . so our brethren and mr. h. his judicial confession before the church is as superfluous and scriptureless , before they be admitted and engaged members of the visible church . on the other extremity they faile , who condemn wiclif his eleventh article , that a minister ought not to excommunicate , except he know first the man r to be excommunicate of god. and ioh. hush was unjustly condemned for desending wiclif in these and the s like . nor was it a damnable error that ioh. hush held , that there is but one universal holy church , as there is but one certaine number of men predestinate to glory . mr. h●●ker his new catholick abstract congregation divided in so many thousand little catholick churches is too near to the papists in this . iohn hush u before his judges and accusers , often professed that christ limited not jurisdiction and ruling of the church militant to peter only , but gave it to all the apostles and true pastors ; but never to mr. h. his male church . x theodores judgeth the church builded upon the rock . mat. . not to be a single visible congregation with mr. h. which certainly perisheth ; but the company of chosen believers builded upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles , who●e corner - stone is christ. and though this be one catholick church divided all the world over , habet domos àse invicem divisas , and is y one body , of which christ is head , one company , one city ; which cannot be said of one single congregation . and z cor. . ye are all the body of christ ] not ye onely , but all they who through the whole world believe . theodoret on tim. . shews that there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , praefectura , a power of receiving witnesses against elders , and of examining them before they be ordained . this b ambrosius shews , making jews and gentiles one body having one baptism , and the apostles caput ecclesiae , the chief members of the church . as also c the doctors in the church of corinth dissembled or carelesly censured the incest , as eli the priest did his sons . then there was a presbytery to cast him out . see if d ambrose gives the keyes to peter , yes , to peter and paul only , and to the rulers ; onely he saith , inter ipsos ( petrum & paulum ) quis 〈◊〉 proponatur incertum . the same ( saith e ephraim syrus ) of these two . f gregorius nyssenus episcop . frater basilii magni , all we who are joyned to one body of christ by faith , make one body — and that he excludes not , but includes the visible body , he proves from cor. . ye are the body of christ : and eph. . the body gathered by the ministry of apostles , evangelists , pastors , &c. which shall be brought to the unity of faith . so g christ is the rock of life , and the rock of faith to the church builded upon the rock ( which admits not magns , who is not builded upon the rock ; as ioh. hush refused a wicked pope to be head , or member of the church so built . ) h hieronymus clearly expounds the ports of hell to be vi●ia atque peccata ( re●r ) v●l certè 〈◊〉 doctrinas , sins or herefies , which is strong for the invisib●e church of true believers ; not for the visible congregation , of which iudas and magus are members to mr. hooker , and were never built on the rock . and the keyes are given to bishops and presbyters , who may not under that pretence condemn the innocent . and hieron . com. mat. . . si ecclesiam non audierit , quaecunque alligaveritis ] potestatem tribuit apostolis , ut sciant qui à 〈◊〉 conde●nantur , humanam sententiam divinâ roborari , & quodcunque ligatum fuerit in terra , ligari pariter & in coel● . see hieronym . com. ad eph. . . who expounds the body of christ of the church , until we all meet , all the company of believers . and i h●eron . let the bishops hear who have power of ordaining elders in every city . nor need our brethren suspect hieronymus to be prelatical , his judgment is known to be contrary thereunto . see hieron . in tit. . . see him for the present purpose in opuscul . in prover . c. p. . see ruffinus k for the marks of the true church , saying with us , that pure doctrine declares a pure church : and so the churches which marcion , valentinus , ebion and manicheus and other hereticks gather , are not true churches . l chrysostom , if the ports of hell prevail not against the church , far less shall they prevail against me : therefore thou shouldst not be troubled ( peter ) when thou hearest that i shall be crucified . then by the mind of chrysostom , christ speaks here for the comfort of peter , as a sound believer , and not as an external visible member of a congregation , as saith mr. h. and see m here a fisher-man is made pastor and head of the whole church . then it could not have been the mind of chrysostom , that such a headship ( whatever it was , or whether peculiar to peter or no , is another question ) was given to the people . n chrysostom expounds , tell the church , tell the rulers . o chrysostom , as a king sending iudges , gives them power to cast guilty men in prison , and to deliver them ; so sends christ his disciples , and arms them with authority . will any dream that chrysostom judgeth that christ gave this power to the people ? p chrysostom saith , the apostles take to themselves to determine the number of the deacons , and to ordain them ; but they give the election of the men to the people , lest the apostles should seem partial , and to favour men . mr. h. saith the contrary . valiant q athanasius makes the church builded upon a rock , to be a strong , an unshaken promise ; and that the church is an inseparable thing , although hell it self were moved , and these that are in hell , and the princes of darkness should rage : sure this great witness never meant any such invincible promise to an external visible congregation , and its members iudas and simon magus . peter himself , who received the heavenly keyes , sinned ( saith r athanasius . ) s hilarius commends the rock which breaks the ports of hell t and sayes that men are loosed or bound in heaven , by condition of the apostles sentence : then doth he not think it the sentence of the people . let the learned judge of the ancient writings of clemens : that epistle of his to the corinthians , read sometimes in the ancient church , will have mr. hookers visible converts only church-matter , though he writ to them as the true church , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : yet he writes of a sad change of their profession , such as was in israel , when they made defection to idolatry , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it were hard to say such a company are all visible converts . . clemens seems to deny to the people power of commanding , and to say that the preachers ordained bishops and deacons , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cyrillus alexandrinus upon these words , i will give thee the keyes ] he gifted universally all the apostles with power over unclean spirits : then neither the one power nor the other gave he to the people . cyril . alexan. in isa. l. . pag. . & cyrillus tom . , dialog de trinitat . l. . pag. . peter is so called from his most firm and unshaken faith , in qua ecclesia christi ita fundata ac firmatt ess●t , ut non laberetur & esser expugnabilis inferorum portis , aeter●…um manens : on which the church is built , that it cannot fail , but remains for ever , cannot be overcome by the ports of hell . cyrillus well knew single congregations are not invincible ; and he speaks of such a saving faith , as magus cannot have , it came from the father , teaching ex ineffabili eruditione superna , &c. see what apostolick dignity he gave to them , which he gave not to the people . cyrill . in ioan. l. . c. . page , . cyrill . on isa. . c. page . august . tom . . dom. post epiphan . sect . page . . tertius modus est , quomodo totus christus secundum ecclesiam , id est , caput & corpus praedicetur● etenim caput & corpus unus christus , non quia sine corpore non est integer , sed quia & nobiscum integer esse dignatus est — membra christi & corpus sumus omnes simul : non qui hoc loco sumus tantum , fed & per universam terram : nee qui tantum hoc tempore , sed qui dicam ex abel●…sto usque in finem seculi , quandiu generant & generantur hominis . it were needless to prove a visible integral catholick church all the world over , not in asia onely from augustine . . or to prove a mixture of tares and wheat , of good and bad in the visible church ; and that they are not visible converts that are members of the visible church . . how far in the communion of the church and of sacraments mali maculent & contaminent bonos , see august-cont . epist. parmen . mr. h. deviseth a way for this : it s referred to a mans free choice , without any compulsion of any , to what congregation he shall joyn himself or not : and though the doctrine and ordinances be most pure , yet he may keep within himself the causes of his not joyning , thinking such are profane , and so there is little or nothing of christs presence in this church . but the formal cause of joyning to a church in which one should reside , is not the holiness of members , but the soundness and purity of the ordinances ; and if the gospel be there , he is obliged to profess it , as he is to confess , and not deny christ before men . . if any of israel goodwell in another city or town , where another priest shall teach , is it in his choice to be taught by that priest or not ? or was there no freedome under the old testament , but there is freedome now ? prove this difference from the word . . the don●… in that contr . p●… . l. . c. . a wicked minister can no more convert , quam vivificare quenquam mortuus potest , than a dead man can give life . so our brethren , they are not fit to be edifying matter , who shall destroy the church . . august . lib. retract . . c. . ubicunqus autem in 〈◊〉 libris commemoravi ecclesiam non habentem maculam a●… rugam , non sic accipiendum , quasi jam s●● , sed qu● praeparatur ut sis . augustine owns no church , that in the esteem of saints is without spot or wrinkle . . augustine cond●… the donatist● , aug. contr . liter . petil. episc. donatist● , l. . 〈◊〉 . they were broken off from the catholick church , ab or bis 〈◊〉 sancta communiono ; that was , sure , no congregation , for they set up congregations of their own : but they said , with themselves onely was the true church . . petilianus said , what hath righteousness to do with unrighteousness ? augustine saith , it s not righteousness taking part with unrighteousness , si judas & petru● paritor sacramenta communi●… . . petilianus applied the scriptures that are spoken of real saints , as psal. . blessed is the man ; and psal. . the lord is my shepherd , he leadeth me , &c. to their onely members of separated churches . so do our brethreu . mr. cotton , mr. hooker . so mr. robinson . augustine answers , these words belong not to baptized simon magus — they are not the words of the tares , of the chaff , but of the wheat . . petilian said , the catholicks admitted all to be just , and members of the church qui verba legis noverunt , that knew words of scripture ; and satan knew scripture : the same mr. h. objects to us . see aug. a . the question between us and the donatists is , where is this body ( visible , for it were madness to think the question was touching the invisible church , where it is ) where the church is ? what then shall we do ? shall we seek it in our words , or in the words of her head the lord iesus ? see b august . it s known augustine acknowledgeth in all these writings a catholick church from sea to sea , to which men should joyn themselves as to the visible society of christ. . our brethren will have none to be baptized , except they be baptized into a particular congregation . and c aug. condemns the donatists , who will have it no baptism which is administred without the church . . our brethren will have so many conditions of the visible church . . that the matter be fit , visible saints . . that the form be a church covenant . . that they meet in one place , &c. augustine d following the word , saith , all of jews and gentiles in covenant are the visible church . . this or that congregation or believer may fall off the rock , defecit ex omnibus gentibus christiana religio , excepta parte donati , except some following donatus , and some in america , aut alibi . see aug. e . they who ( saith f augustine ) teach , that the church which was to take its beginning at jerusalem , is not that visible city , but by a figure is the whole church that is in heaven and earth , may say that also is spoken by a figure , it behoved christ to die , and to rise the third day . then augustine thinks the church of jews and gentiles all the world over to be one visible city , against the donatists and our brethren . catholicks ( as august g teacheth ) said , that it was the minde of cyprian , that the tares were in the church , not lurking , but seen : to which the donatists durst answer nothing , they were so moved with the authority of cyprian . cyprian h clearly saith , the lord gave first to peter , upon whom he built his church ( nor did he then build the church upon the confessing church ) power to binde and loose — as also he saith , after the resurrection , to the apostles , as my father sent me , so send i you . to cyprian then one place in ioh. . expounds matth . now cyprian never thought that christ sent the people as the father sent him : and cyprian i soli petro dixit , quaecunque ligaver●s — quando in solos apostolos insu●●●vit christus dicens , accipite spiritum sanctum : si eujus remiseritis p●ocata k cyprian proves , that the church is one , and baptism one ; what talk they then of multiplied visible congregations , and multiplied baptisms ? and see l cyprian , et quamvis apostolis omnibus post resurrectionem dicat , sicut ●ifit me pater , &c. tamen ut unitatem manifestaret , unam cathedram ( petri ) constituit , &c. m cyprian expounding matth. . . and i say to thee , thou ●●t peter , &c. the church is founded upon the bishops , and every act of the church by these overseers is guided ; and therefore the lapsi should not have peace , but by satisfying church-discipline . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e isa. . , . notes for div a -e the adequate subject of church discipline is not the visible church , as m. h. take 〈◊〉 it . a church without officers may not do what a civil corporation without rulers may do . pag. , . what influence habitation hath to make church-members . survey p. . c. . pag. , . m. h. his visible saints are not the onely fit matter of the visible church , nor is it proved but by conjectures . pag. . m. h. . arg. christ is two wayes a head by m. h. his way . or where christ is in scripture called the head of magus , m. r. desires to know . men are the confederate people of god visibly , without any mans passing his judgment thereupon . m. h. his second arg. part . . pag. , . m. h. . arg. that reall saints onely are members and subjects of the visible church and of christs visible kingdome , the place isai. . . doth not prove that m. h. his visible saints are the onely matter of the visible church . marlorat . comment . in isai. c. ● . . tentorium firmum ) adeo ut ne portae inferorum adversus eam praevaleant , matth. . . ioan. piscator . v. . adhuc alloquitur pios iudaeos . calvin . in locum . quin dominus in medio ejus , ideo non commovetur . muscul. . oves meas nemo rapiet è manu mea . calv. in vers . . notandum hic quae vera sit ecclesia dei scil . ( deum ) logislatorem & regem agnoscit . bullinger . in locum , ita instruct à gratiâ dei ut malis nec cedat nec frangatur , sed semper permaneat firma . calvin . vers . . notat● dignum est , quod soli ecclesiae cives hoc privilegio ( remissionis ) ornantur . gualter in loc . ad solam ergo ecclesiam & ●ujus cives illa pertinent . lutherus in loc . quia habet pius populus propitium deum , condonabuntur ejus peccata . so the donatists . augustin . contra epist. parme. l. . c. . manua nim vestrae sanguine coinquinatae sunt . ●…mo loquitur ju●●a , &c respo . austin . quos isto loco scriptura describit , ubicunque fuorint inter bonos , non obsunt bon● ; sic ut non obest palca frumentis , &c. sec augustin . de unitat . eccles. m. h. his contradiction of visible saints membere and non-visible saints members is naught . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . l. . aristot. de reprehens . sophist . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the church passeth no judgement upon magus when he is a member admitted and baptized , that either he is a reall chosen , or a reall conv●… , 〈◊〉 reall non-chosen or a reall non . convert , but their judgement abstracteth from both . the same in an other dresse , the donatists object to augustin contra epist. parmenian l. c. . . objiciunt , ut quid exponis justificationes meas , &c. it s a naughty consequence , hypocrites are sinfully unfit to be members without the churches knowledge , ergo the church sinnes in admitting of them . m. h. must make all israel savoury professors and reall converts in the judgement one of another , before ever the lord of free grace called them to be his people . m. can necessity of separat . sect. . . an . . objected the same , and m. h. does but an . . repeat the same , and m. ball answers it pag. . . the wicked are forbidden to meddle with the covenant of god : does david say , they are fobidden onely at their first admission to be members to b●eak the third commandement in taking the covenant in their mouth while as they are wicked , and if so , iezabel continuing a member is not forbidden to meddle w●th the covenant ; yea the scandalous m●mbers which ( as m. h. ) must be tolerated for a time a●e fit members , and may take the covenant in their mouth . how ehe preaching of the gospel is a note of the visible church , and how not . there may be a church and church-members before there be any seals . an hearing and church-profession may be in persons and societies before they be baptized . the visible church is a society dayly more and more inchurched . our brethren and the soci●i●●● give us a very uncertain way of knowing the church . remonst in apolog . c. doctrinae praedicatio est anterius quid ecclesiâ quid absurdius ? erge id quod aliquando prius est ecclesiâ , eâdem posterius erit : nota enim notate suo posterior est . idci●…ò qui● p aedicati● est aliquande instrume●…um ecclesiae collig●… , non po●…sse cert● atque infell thi●●s nota e●… oll●… . vide fol . ● . socinianus voshelius de vera religione lib. . c. . primò igitur ad salutem consequendam simpliciter necessarium esse non videtur , ubi christ● ecclesia sit perquirere . minimè consequens est ut quia christus ecclesiam adire & audire jubet , ●deirco ubi existat ea , inquirendum nobis omnino sitz loquitur iis qui jam ecclesiam agnoverunt . ait ibidem ad salutem aeternam nihil aliud requiri quam sidem , pe● sidem in deo per christum collatam , cujus spiritus atque animaest obedientia . how excommunicated persons are members of the church , how not . the place thess. . . mistaken by m. r. and our brethren . how preaching many years to infidels is a note of the church , how not . what sort of preaching of the word is a note of the visible church . what is to be thought of a lecturer that preacheth constantly to many of diverse congregations . see for these lecturers in prelaticall times m. can his il-grounded challenge of lecturers necess . of separat . pag. . . and learned m. buls answer to m. can c. . sect. . pag. , , . that setled preaching is a note of the visible church . though scandalous men , as adulterers , ought to be cast out , yet m. h. loosly inferres , ergo they had never right to be admitted members . m r yields not the cause because he gives two answers to the same argument ; one to the rigid separatists , another to our brethren . false matter makes a church to be no church by our brethrens way . m. can. necess . of separ . sect. . pag. . . that which destroyes a church , and maketh it either become a false church , or no church at all , cannot be a true church , nor true member of the church . way of the churches of new england chap. . sect . . pag. , , . printed london . ann . . m. h. his conjecture of visible saints . the argument , such as were the members of the church of rome , corinth , such should the members of our church visible be , scanned and foundfaulty . m h contradicteth the book of discipline of new england . hookers survey par . . c. . the places cited by our brethren for visible membership prove that they were read converts and predestinate to glory who are right members visible . christ dealt not with iudas in a church-way , it is a dream void of the word . this visible saintship destroves the faith , hope , joy , thanksgiving of saints . chap. . sect. . cor. . . the place much mistaken . concili . teldent . sess . . c. . bellarmi . gregori . de v●●● . our brethren argue from a grown up church , to an unplanted church ; this is a high tall-tree ergo it was an high tall-tree , when it was first planted . way of the churches of n. england , ch . . sect . . by our brethrens way there must be sons and a fed flock , before there be fathers and shepherds to feed them . by our brethrens way none are converted by a visible ministerie and by pastors and teachers . cor. . . by m. h. his way no pastor as a pastor hath any command of christ to intend to convert his ●…k or any ●ember thereof . m. h leaveth out that word wherein the strength of m. r argument stands , and utterly mistakes him . there must be two contrary intentions in god by our brethrens way . m. hooker ] ibid. . inference . see answer to questions . answer to sect . . q. . q. . q. see m baylie vindicat . of disswasive an . . pag. . c. . pag. . . answer to . quest. sect . . pag. . . . pag. . . . ans . to q. . p. . both mr hoo●●r and m robinson and the sepaparatists teach that there can be none members of the visible church but onely real converts , and such as are chosen to life ; and so contradict themselves , and this is no calumny which m. h. chargeth on them . so m. robinson whom m. h. desends , justification of separation against mr. r. rernard , propos . . pag. . so hath every true visible church of christ direct and immediate interest in christ , and title to christ himself , and the whole n●w testament . see pag. , , . ans. why saith he not the true visible church hath direct and immediate interest in christ , &c. in the judgment of charity ; which is sometime mr hookers addition , and so he knows that magus , iudas and such , have neither direct nor indirect , mediate nor immediate interest in christ , but are ieprous members . see pag. . the scriptures never ascribe holiness to a people for some fews sake , if the rest be unholy and profane . answ. the man hath not read of israel holy to the lord , of sardis with whom christ was , where there were a remnant , and some few names onely saved . see robinson , pag. , , , , . mistaking the matter the same way . petilianus the donatist also did alledge the scriptures due to the really sanctfied members , for their churches , of which simon magus was a member . aug. cont . lib. petilian . l. . c. . c. . c. . psal. . beatus vir . & . dominus pascit m● , &c. aug. resp . non enim verba ista etiam ad sim. magum pertinent , qui tamen eundem sanctum baptismum suscepit . see l. . c. . p. see aug. cont : l. petil. l. . c. . iustif. of separat . m. robinson & his maintain that the visible church , as touching its essential constitution , should consist of onely reall converts , as the church in paradise : and m. hooker defends them in this . see mr. ca● weakly objecting the very same , neces . of separ . pag. . and learned m. ball ans. sect . . p. , . when you speak of visible churches , & visible and external holines , so far as men judge , it s to small purpose to mention the church of angels , &c. m. robinson & m. hooker wildly mistake the decreeing & approving will of god. so armin. antiperken . p. . corvinus ex . ad wallach . p. . remonst . in scrip. synod ar . p. . remonst . apol . c. . fol. . soci● contra puttin . cap. . sol . . the same also petilian the donatist objected to the catholicks , that they owned all as just and church-members , who knew some words of scripture , though they lived as sathan . aug. cont . lit . petil. l. . c. . sic enim conatus es ostendere diabolum legisperitum , quasi nos dicamus omnes , qui verb● legis noverant justos esse . sect. . . . sect. . whether fitnesse to be baptised be the visible conversion : regenerati●● which m. h. requireth . whether they were all to iohn reall converts , whom iohn baptized . see m. can. separa . p. . and the ans. of m. ball , sect . . p. , . answer to the quest . p. . m. h. ascribeth to all whom iohn baptised , and who are to be admitted visible members a confession of sinnes , such as amounted to the reall repentance which iohn commanded mat. . see anton. wal. to . . de baptis . infan . p. . daniel chamiez loc. com. l. . o. . p. . none are to be baptized by m. h. his arguing , while they die , and consummate their course of repentance . it is clear that iohn baptist had no such judgement of charity that all the multitude which he baptized were reall converts . way of the church of n. e. cap. . sect. . p. . the text is not clear mat. . mark . luk. . that iohn repelled from his baptisme saduces and pharisees . calvin . com . hoc modo omnes ad interius conscientiae examen citat ut se penitùs exentiant . m. h. complyeth with papists for a particular confession , mat. . beza in mat. . hinc igitur apparet iohannem non alios admisisse ad suum baptismum quàm qui gratuitae remissionis doctrinam 〈◊〉 seriò amplecti testarentur . pareus ●n loc . nec ad baptismum indignos admisit . piscat . mat. . docu . ex . v. . baptismus nulli adulto conferendus est , nisi prius ediderit confessionem peccatorum ac propterea promissionem sanctae vitae ex v. . piscator in mark . v. . imo nequi quam probabile est ioannem ex gisse confessionem publicam ( talem enim edebant scelerum ocultorum belarm . de sacra . poenitent . l. . c. . rhemists on mat. . v. . annot. . iac. canteri iesuita . in tabul . chronograph . sacr . ad an . . p. . sect. . annot. . d. fulks ans . to to the rhemists mat. . . if generall confession was not sufficient , but every man must utter all his sinnes in particular , iohn had shriving work enough for seven years to heare the confession of ierusalem and all iurie and all the country about ierusalem . o papists blush ! cartwright against rhemists on the place pag. . way of the churches of n. e. ch . . sect. . part . . ans. to the . questions quest . . part . . the place for baptizing luk. . . and act. . cleared , of the pharisees and of the eunuch . par. . p. . what ignorance excludeth from church-membership . calvin . com. act. . ans. to quest . q. . par. . pag. . m. r. never said that profession must notifie to the church the person is a true believer before he can be admitted a church-member , as m. h. would impute to him . m. h. must be to near to that all infants born of their visible saints must be reall converts . part. . c. . p. . our brethren cannot admit visible converts upon these formall reasons as visible converts . our brethren must say that none are to be casten out of the church , but as visible non-converts . gods intention or dispensation is not the churches rule of dispensing consures , but the will of god revealed in his word . what m. h. requires in members before they be admitted . m. h. neither proves , nor can prove that the apostles had habituall experience in so few houres , all and every one of the . act. . gave evidence of reall conversion to the apostles . no grounds there are to say that philip and the church of samaria smelled the savourinesse of saving grace in magus before he was admitted a member . three considerable cases in framing of visible churches . quest . , . p. . our brethren cast out of the church these who were baptized in their infancy , and members thereof , because visibly non-regenerated . what warrant for this censure ? these are groundlesse conjectures ; when the apostles first preached to the heathen that . they preached not as pastors : . that they waited untill , in the apostles judgement , and the judgement of one another , they were reall converts : . then the apostles and themselves judicially inchurch●… them . way of the churches of christ in n. e. ch . . sect. . pag. . mr. tho. hooker survey of discipline , part 〈◊〉 . c. . p. , . upon profession of faith presently followeth baptizing . mr. rich. baxter for infant-baptism . it is not like that the apostles de facto erred in putting in chalke stones in the first samplar of the visible church , more then in the first samplar of synods , act. . the place act. . pleads for reall repentance of all the . before they were inchurched , as m. h. expounds it . magus was no such a visible convert before he was baptized . caly. inter fidem & meram simulationem est aliquid mediu● : epicurei & lucrani se credere profiletur , quum tamen intus rideant , quum illis fabulosa sit spes vitae aeternae . bez. an . credidit fide , scilicet historica . diodat . he believed , he made outward profession of the faith . piscat . credidit , i. e. professus est fidem . what reall characters of saving faith were in these . calvin in loc . hec paenitentiae initium , malorum nostrorum sensu vulnerari . g●alth . atque hoc factu necessarium , si non tantum ex verbo docemus , sed & electorum exemplis , ut interim nullus nobis de impuris & poenitere nesciis hujus seculi filiis ( quales fu●re ananias & saphira ) sermo sit . par . . p. . . pauls presbytery , c. . arg . . pag. , . m. r. his argument from the draw-net , wronged by m. h. is vindicated . barrow disc . of false church , pag. . calvin in evang . matth. in ●●c . dicks . mat. pareus . non restrictè , non hoc modo quo vos vultis , immoderato rigore cum laesione tritici ; non prohibet quin magistratus & ecclesia faciat officium eradicandis suo loco zizaniis . aug. con . don. c. . sub fluctibus quid cepe●nt retia nesciunt piscatores , neque palea quae in area est ●ermixta frum●ntis ; etiam ipsa sub fluctibus latet , quae sic omnium oculis est conspicua , &c. aug. con . don. n●que enim & ipse sicut piscis sub fluctibus erat , & sic ab invitatoribus quomodo à piscatoribus videri●…n poterat . of the man mat. . without the wedding garment . way of the churches of n. e. c. . sect . . pag. . doth not the expostulation intimate a taxing of these by whose connivance he came in ? friend , how ca●●st thou in hither ? see aug. contr . epist. parmeni . l. . c. . quapropter zizani● vel paleam catholica segetis nobiscum copiosissime accusent , sed nobiscum serre patientissimè non recusent ; noluit enim dominus ante temp●● eradicare zizania , & à ●rumentorum permixtione separare . solomon and asa are chur. members . amos. in antisydalibus de pers. c. . p. . p. mart. com. in reg. . , , , &c. p. , . august . de civ . dei , l. . c. . m. h. would prove we shou'd enter into no church where any sc●ndalous person is . so p●tilian . quae enim participatio justitiae cum iniquitate ? r. sp . aug. cont . ●i● . petil. lib. . c. . quis nostrum dicit esse participationem talem si iudas & petrus pariter sacramentum communicent ? so the donatists . aug. cont . parm●nian . l. . c. why h●lyst thou the wicked ? so petilion . not unlike this , aug. cont . liter . petil. lib. . c. . beatus vir qui non abiit in concilio impiorum . august . r●sp . sed vos maledicti crimina etiā sacramentis objicitis . see aug. cont . epist. parmen . lib. . c. . objicit parmenianus illud , isa. . recedite , recedite — resp. sed cur ipse in ipso populo immunditiam , quam graviter arguebat , in una cum iis congregatione tangebat ? so parmenian ib. object . . psa. . non sedi cum concilio vanitatis . resp. ang. cont . epist. parm. lib. . c. . in his quicunque dilexerit speciem domus dei , & locum tabernaculi claritatis ejus , tolerat ca quae sunt in contumelia , nec propter hoc relinquit domum , ne fiat ipse non vas in contumeliam , quod tamen in domo toleratur , sed stercus quod de domo projicitur . the donatists , aug. cont . parm. l. 〈◊〉 . c. . put that evil man out from among you . the place cor. . not to eat with a sonicator , misexpounded by mr. h. bulling . contubernium & interiorem convictum prohibet . beza in cor ne samiliariter iis uter●mini . beza in cor. p. martyr . cibus cum iis non capiatur , non dicatur ( excommunicatis ) ave. august . cont . donat. cap. . cypr. l. . epist. . nam et si videntur in ecclesia zizania , non tamen impedire debet aut fides aut charitas nostra , ut quoniam z●zania in ecclesia cernimus , de ecclesia recedamus . august . cont . epistol . parmen . l. . c. . erat ne ecclesia carthaginensis ecclesia , an non erat ? si erat , quero qu●madmodum ( i. e. quo pact● ? ) cypr. et caeteri — implebant quod praecepit apostolus , cor. . siquis frater nominatur , & est fornicator , & avarus — quando cum iis avaris & rapacibus — multiplicantibus faenus — panem domini manducabant , & calicem bib●bant . due right of presbyt . par . . pag. , . the question whether the elect and invisible church be the prime subject of the seals , sens●…ss ; and the affirmative never imagined by mr. r. the only visible & first external subject of the ●xternal seals , is the visible church . the external seals and promises preached &c. are not priviledges of special note given in the mediator christ. that the invisible & really believing church is the prime , proper and principal and onely subject of all the priviledges of special note in the mediator christ , is proved by arguments , never answered by mr. h. the rule quod ( what agreeth to any ) convenit , as such , agrees to it universally & reciprocally , is a safe rule in logick . aristot. poster . a●…t . l. . c. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . aristot. ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , per se autem ( in secundo modo ) & quâ tale idem sunt . aristot. analyt . . cap. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ant. ruvio , colleg. conimbr . murcia de l●llana poster . analyt . l. . c. . primus modus per se est quando praedicatum pertinet ad essentiam subjecti , quia vel est definitio ejus , vel pars definitionis , unde istae propositiones sunt in primo modo per se , homo est animal , homo est rationalis . ruvio . colleg. conimbr . toletus , masius . secundus modus per se , est quando subjectum pertinet ad definitionem praedicati , ut homo est admirativus , homo est ri sibilis . ibid. in textu . convenire ●utem praedicatum subjecto secundum quod ipsum idem est , ●c convenire illi in quantum tale ; hoc est , non secundum rationem commu●●m sed propriam , & hoc est , reciprocè . how the converts , acts . were in covenant : for peter renders to the chosen a healing answer , you are inter nally in covenant ; and to the rest an answer to guard against despair , the promise is preached to you . if these be reall converts one to another who are called the people of god , then all israel , all the gentiles must be reall converts in the charity of all the prophets , and of one another . the , act. . are pricked at the heart , & converts by a figure , that is , many or most of them were such , but not all , and every one , as mr. h. saith . idolaters and scandalous persons visibly must be visible converts , by m. h. his way . m. r. disclaims that which m. h. chargethupon him , that to be of the invisible church onely giveth right ecclesiastick to the seals . par. . p , due right of presbyt . par . . iac. gualterius iesuita in tabulâ chronographicâ prim . secu● . ad an . . pag. . sect . . probat liberum arb . contra cal●inianos quint. classis repugnantiam continens quae saepe inter voluntatem nostram & divinam intercedit . bellar. de amiss . g●at . l. . cap. . mr. h. sides with arminians , socinians , and papists , in saying that the reformed churches ascribe to god two contrary wills. armin. antip. pag. . edit . bertiana , at aio , id quod deus in mandatis & prom●ssionibus dicit tale esse ut deus citra contradictionem dici nequeat , decreto aliquo suo contrarium ejus vellet statuere . . insinuat deum hypocriseos . cor● . advers . molinaeum . c. . sect . . . piscator & alii voluntatem signi & beneplaciti ut opposita considerant , ut deum non semper seriò velle , quod mandato se velle significat est voluntas in deum contumeliosa quae simulationem & hypo●ri sin in deo ponit . remonst . in script . synodalibus dordracen . ar . . de praedestinat . pa. . is qui intrinsecè & serio ad poenitentiam vocat reprobos ; quos tamen intrinsecè arcano & immutabili decreto ab aeterno absolutè ad damnationem , & damnationis causas destin●vit , is stmul it benevolentiam erga eos , & mel in ore , ut dicitur , ostentat , & ●●l in corde ●●vet . doctrina haec pa. . deo duplicitatem animi & simulationem cum deceptione conjunctam attribuit , deo hypocrisin , mendacium . p. . collocutores hagienses in appendice de reprobatione . p. . nam ea est simulatio aliquem ad fidem & salutem vocre qui jam ante p●r reprobation is decretum ab utraque est absolutè segregatus . conrad . vorst . amor. duplic . ad piscatorem , p. . par . . pag : . esse sic vocationem dei illusorium . p. . deum ●ubere ut credant mendacio . but the arminians in their apology all along , especially cap. . where this matter is handled ; and cap. . where they speak of reprobation , are as dumb as a fish of all these vain objections , which otherwise seem to serve their end not a little , now as before . but it is like they were convinced in conscience they did proceed from a false and erroneous exposition of the lords will of pleasure and of precept , and therefore i doubt not but mr. h. did not a little sail against the truth , in carping at this distinction acknowledged by all our divines . a clearing of that distinction of the lords will of purpose or decree , & of his commanding or approving will against arminians , and against mr. h. his siding with them in that , though innocently , as mr. r. in charity judgeth . the decree & the approving will of god are the same . of the right that real visible professors have to the seals ; & that that right which magus & other painted members have , is no true right . the command to be baptized as a simple command gives no right ecclesiastical , no right internal to magus to be baptized except he believe . yet doth the church without sin invite & baptize professors , without passing a sentence upon their real conversion , or hypoctitical . visible professors that are sincere , have both right internal & external to the seals & the marrow of the seals . peter & magus have not the same right to the seals . m. h. his argument is retorted upon h●mself . the right of hypocrites to church priviledges & seals , which is onely ecclesiastick & external , is no right real and true . par. . pag. . the church is two ways visible . how christ is the head of the visible church . the place act. . feed the flack , &c. is answered by m. h. the same way that the arminians answer to it . collo . hagienses in confor . thes. . p. . ad acts . . si hic per eccle siam christi redemp●am soli electi sunt intelligendi , presbyteris ephesiis ergo soli electi suerin● in ecclesia commendati ; sed hoc est absurdū , quia . ecclesia eph● siorum , cujus cura illis mandatur , erat ecclesia visibilis , in qud etiam sunt qui non credunt . . presbyteri non poterant electos noesse ; ergo , hic non intelliguntur soli electi . see the answer of amesius in coron . art . . de redemptione , pag. . as arminians say , the church , acts . is the visible church of the really redeemed elect and reprobate : so that church ( saith mr. h. is the really redeemed elect and reprobate , in the judgement of paul , and the really believing church , rev. . , . it is false , that as many as were bought with the blood of christ in the judgement of charity , as were to be fed with word , seals and censures . m. h. his interpretation of the bought church , act. . to be all & every one of that church to be bought , redeemed and sanctified in the judgement of charity must also make the world , joh. . . the whole world of jews and gentiles , joh. . , . to be in the judgment of charity the redeemed & sanctified world . how the visible church is christs body . if a church congregational , the onely visible church may fall away , as m. h. granteth , then is not such a church visible the first and principal subject of perseverance , and of the like priviledges of special note in the mediator , as m. h. saith . the single cōgregation may fall away , ergo it cannot b● either the subject or the first subject of a new heart , perseverance in grace , &c. m. h. must expound all the precious promises of the lords giving the engraven law in the heart , of christs bearing our sins on the tree , with the like , according to the judgement of charity . yea , and the lord doth not , by this interpretation , really commend his church , but onely in the judgement of charity ; as cant. . . thy voice ( in prayer ) is sweet , in the judgement of charity ; and cant. . . thou art all fair , my love , in the judgement of charity ; and v. , , , . must bear the like sense . if christ die for all the world in the judgement of charity , he must intend in the same judgment to die for them , & must in the same judgement c●…e them to glory . redemption how it is not properly visible . little stone , pag. . par. . pag. , . hypocrites have not any ecclesiasticall right to the seals from the command of god , as a command , but from the command as it includes the fulfilling of the condition . iob had right to the seals . aug. de civ . dei l. . c. . nec ipsos iudaeos existimo audere contendere , neminem pe●tinuisse ad deum praeter israelitas — iob nec indigena , nec proselyta , id est , adven● populi israel fuit , sed ex gente idum●a genus ducens ; ibi ortus , ibidem mortuus est . genebrard . in chron. an . mun. . tempore patriarcharum vixisse ejus tempore plerosque ch●nanaeo●um , ad ecclesiam catholicam perti●uisse existimat . pineda in iob cap. . ver . . nu. . c. . ecce docuisti multos fuisse regem & publicum doctorem populi sibi subjecti ; when iob lived even before the law , and before moses . see theodoret epitom . divinorum decretorum , l. . de creatione . origen . homil. . super ezek. euseb. l. . demonst. evang. cap. . moses videtur septimus ab abrahamo , iob quintus . the visible church as visible , is not the first and principal subject of the seals , according to their substance of the new heart , perseverance , &c. the olive tree rom. . . not the visible congregation as visible , but as it includeth the elect ; and the fatness is not the outward signs only , of which magus partaketh . pag. . ch . p. . non-regeneration excludes not men from church-right to the seals , as m. h. imagineth . mr. r. places not the formal reason of offices , officers , seals in the visible church , as mr. h. saith . survey , par . . c. . p , . see mr. robinson his error in this . justific . of separat . pa. . these of sundry congregations have as visible a communion , and so make up as visible a body as th●se of the same congregation that meet within the same wals . marrying of members to one congregation onely , is a scriptureless conceit . mr. robinson , justificat . of separ . p. . it is not free to professors to refuse to be membersof the congregation in which they were borne of believing parents , & baptized , and must reside in a convenient nearness to the assembly of saints . church-duties of warning , teaching , comforting , rebuking , are by no word of christ restricted to one single congregation . pag. . experimental knowledge of the spirituall fitness one of another before the erecting of a congregation is warranted by no word of god , whatever mr. h. say on the contrary . pag , . mr. cawdreys review , c. . p. . pag , , no covenant in the n. testament ties any to christian duties in one onely cōgregation , otherwise than as providential cōversing with them affords , which is in sister-churches also . how d. bilson abuseth the place . mat. . see bilson the perfect government of christs church , c. p. , , &c. he mistaketh both our conclusion , & our arguments . it is against our saviours purpose to limi●… the gaining of a trespassing brother , mat. . to the onely one congregation of which the offended brother is a member fixedly . the un●di●ying and cruel inconvenience that come to the soules of beleeving merchants , sojourners who are visible saints , by the church engagement to one onely single congregation . part . c. . pag. . the reason for this church-covenant from the priviledges of a city is nought , and much against this will worship . cawdery review . c. . pag. , . rutherfurd due right of pres. par . . pag , . mr. john cotton his judicious tractate of the keys . ch . . pag. . the way of the churches of n. e. ch . . sect . . pag and sect . . . mr. hooker survey par . . c. . p. . ch. . sect. . pag. . the texts that cal the church a city , are nothing for the congregational engagement ; the apostle noteth , eph. . the catholike elect church : as also heb. . the way of the churches of n. e. c. iii. sect . . pag. . ibid. ch . . sect . . pag. . mr. h. survey par . . c. . pag. . theodoret. electos ; occumenius , fideles quorum nomina scripta sunt in libro vitae . calvin . marlorat . c●●lestem ergo ierusalem intelligit quae per totum mundum extruenda erat quemadmodum angelus f●niculum ejus ab oriente usque in occidentem exte●dit . piscat . qui electi sunt ad vitam aeternam , luk. . english annotations , diodati the universal church . pareus com. est igitur ecclesia invisibilis electorum quam sanctam catholicā credimus in symbole . sed an omnes hebraei erant primogeniti , electi , hoc non dicit , sed ad eos accessisse . cajetan . ecclesia● apostolorum & discipulorum immediatorum christi , qui conscripti sunt in libro divinae praedestinationis . estius . filios dei per adoptionem , qui sunt electi . beza in locum . ecclesi●m corpori comparat , cujus anima est christus . calv. particula universalis ( omnes ) non sic ut omnes homines in christum credant , hoc eni●● synecdochicè de praedestinatis duntaxat à paulo dicitur , ●i namque soli in unitatem fidei perueviunt , qui ab aeterno electi sunt , rom. . . zanch. in loc . constat ( oorpus hoc ) ex e●ectis tanquam membris coagmentatis christo per fidem . nostras ro. bodi●● à trocheregia vir nobili genere na●us com. & praelection . in eph. . v. , . pag. . . haec p●rro sanctorum compactio sive coagmentatio bifariam promovetur . primo , cum nova subinde membra ad corporis hujus compagem adsciscuntur , fide donantur , & christo capiti per fidem inseruntur . deinde , quando jam vocati & christo ins●●i in fide & charitate magis magisque proficiunt . siquidem utroque hoc modo corpus hoc mysticum ad suam perfectionem tendit . pag. . donec omnia membra ( ergo catholicam eccle●●●● militantē intelligit ) non modò ad corporis hujus mystici compagam & communionem vocata su●●int , ver●m etiam debitum spiritualis illius staturae complementum acceperint . pareus com. in loc. minus videtur fieri posse ut tam divers● sortis , nationis , conditionis homines in un● corpus coeant . the visible church , because visible is never in scripture called the body of christ. the body , cor. . is the catholick church , and how . mr. cotton keys , c. . . way of the churches ch . . sect . . pag. . martyr in loc. cum christiani dicantur ●num corpus efficere , 〈◊〉 tantum politicum christi corpus intelligitur , sed spirituale & ar●anum christi corpus quod ad vitam aeternamtendit , habetque communia hac omnia , dium , christum , spiritum sanctum , 〈◊〉 dei , gratiam , sacramenta , ex quibus liquet 〈◊〉 posse in corpore christi membra arida & mortua esse . part . pag. , , . as mr. h. seldom proves what is denied ; so not any of his arguments conclude that we are of no members made visible members of the church onely by this church covenant . the church-covenant destroyes all church-communion . vid. chamier . l. . c. . loc . com . p. . what power one member or one church hath over another . mr. cotton the keys of the kingdom . ch . . p. . for one member or one church to complain of another , is no binding or loosing , such as is mat. . as mr. h. saith . par. . pag. , . presbyterial & congregational churches in general , are of divine institution , & yet according to their locality , number of mēbers , &c. are onely things of order , &c. par. . p. . the implicite church-covenant is but an imagination . the way of the churches of christ in n. e. ch . . sect . . p. . and sect . . mr. cotton keys , ch . pag. . it is unpossible that the whole church can be acquainted with the church-hearing of every stranger visible saint , who comes to joyn from the neighbour-churches . see jam. . . cor. . , . luke . . act. . , . pag. , . mr. h. survey , par . . ch , . p. . mr. h. without any ground ascribeth to mr. r. that he maketh baptisme the formal cause of visible membership . due right of presbyt . par . . q. . pag. . & . & . synod at westminst . of great brit. conf. c. ● : p. . ib. catech. larger p. . calvin advers . anabaptist . art . . homo in communionem ecclesiae per baptismum cooptatur . calv. instit. lib. . c. . sect . . est confessionis nostrae symbolum — ●otestamur nos in ecclesiam dei ingredi , cor. . . bucan . loc . . q. . in unum corpus ( ●o ) baptizati sumus , cor. . tilen . syntag. disp . . th . . in familiam patris coelestis cooptati per baptismum . synops. purior . theol. disp . . th . . in ecclesiam visibilem & particularem insertio . beza lib. quest . p. . christianos tum à reliquis hominibus sejungit , tum inter se quasi unum sub eodem capite corpus consociat , ut apost . cor. . . pareus in catech . q. . ar . . pag. . tertius finis , ut sit symbolum ingressus & receptionis in ecclesiam , quia deus omnes ecclesiae suae cives vult hoc modo recipi . pet. mart. com . in rom. . inferi autem nos visibili sacramento ( baptismi ) in christum & ecclesiam declaratur hoc loco . the ministery must be before the church of believers . par. . p. , mr. h. his calling of a christian scholar to be an unbaptized minister by unbaptized pagans conve●ted ; a supposition that proves nothing . answer to questions , q. . p. . pag . surv●y part . . c . pag. . how baptism is hurt in the excommunicate . of the church of rome . . arg. pag. iunius lib. de eccles. c. . calvin . instit. l. . c. . sect . . baptismum deus primò illic conservavit faederis testimonium . — sect. . cum ergo ecclesiae titulum non simpliciter volumus concedere papistis , non ideo eccles●a : apud eos esse inficiamur . whitaker controv . . q. . c. . rivetus to . . tract . . q. . in corpore agro peste insecto adhuc aliqua obscura ecclesiae vestigia observamus , scriptural cet sulummodo occultata ibi rem insit , itemque baptismus , quamvis variis additionibus corruptus , ita ut si aliquid ecclesiae ibi residuum sit , id fiat ideo quod aliquid de notis nostris ibi supersit . a survey . par . . c. . pag. , . b par. . c. . pag. , . mr. h. makes sacraments meer and naked signs . arg. . answ. to . quest. q. . pag. , , . baptisme is a seal of grace and priviledges which were before baptism was . a necessary discourse how profession gives right to membership , how not . profession as profession gives no pro●… right to 〈◊〉 & mem●… . profession in order to the rulers , gives a sort of right in professors to membership and ordinances without sinne , which professors cannot receive without sin , except they believe . three acceptions of the word profession , scarce warranted by the word , are brought by mr. h. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . par. c. . p. . the state of the question about visible members is perverted by mr. h. page . page . mr. h. his argument is , an erroneous profession constitutes not membership , &c. a right profession doth not constitute membership . arg. . survey , par . . c. . p. , . page , . existentia est tantum individuorum . mr. h. mistakingly all along maketh the cath lick ( integral ) visible church to be genus . par. . p. ● . profession , as such , doth not make one a member married to one congregation onely . it s not properly of divine institution , that a man be a fixed member of this , rather than of this congregation . a man is not one and the same way a member of the catholick integral visible church , and of a single congregation . par. . p . page . we may be members of all congregations on earth , though we cannot discharge all sorts of duties to all these congregations there be two sorts of duties common and personal , which we owe to members of other churches . mr. h. arg. . par . p. , . way of the churches of n. e. c . sect . . p. ibid. sect . . m. cotton keys c. . p. . how he that is a member of one congregation , hath church-power 〈◊〉 habitu and 〈◊〉 prim● , in all congregations , and how not . christ hath given no power to unjust appeals that are physically impossible . pa● . , pag. ● mr. h. proves not that ephesus is smyrna , or smyrna is ephesus , because the same individual persons are common members to them both , & to all the churches on earth , except he conclude that the little finger is the thumb by the same reason ; for the thumb and the little finger are both nearer members of the hand , and common and remote members of the whole body . congregations and all churches differ not in their essence & last specifick nature , as mr. h. wou●d make us believe , but onely in meer accidents . rage , . 〈◊〉 pag. . because congregations differ ut res & res , they doe not differ in nature , for members of the same congregation differ ut res & res , and the faith , profession and baptism of peter differ from the faith , profession and baptism of iohn his fellow-member of the same congregation ut res & res . then there must be ten thousand species and kinds of members and faith in the one church of ierusalem . pag. , . the covenants of master and servant , and marriage covenants be of the same nature , and differ onely in number , it follows not that a master may claim all men on earth to be his servants , or that a husband may claim all women on earth to be his wives ; but the contrary . the necessity of a church-covenant is scriptureless and dark . par. . p. , children are not under the tie of the church-covenant . pag. . the covenant of grace being so necessary , the church-covenant is needless . brother is larger then a congregational brother . par. . , ● the peoples chusing makes not a minister . the peoples choice of a. b. makes him not a pastor , but determines the exercise of his labours ( which is latter then the essence of a pastor ) to them only fix●dly . no church-covenant in the first planted churches . there is no ground in scripture for a church-covenant . par. p. . the actings required by m. h. in gathering of churches , are not to be found in the apostolick church . their persevering , or resolution to persevere covenant-wise , as is said , could neither of them be visible before they were admitted members . to be ingraffed in the body , is not to be ingraffed into a single congregation . page , . the texts , acts . and . concerning adding to the lord & to the church , are vindicated f●ō the gloss of m. h. and have no shadow of a church covenant . calv. gualth . erant medii homines . occumenius , virtus verè evangelica idonea erat quae plurimum colla●daretur . chrysost nec convertentes se ad risum● non ad ●inas — sed valde humani erant , & p●ae aliis soliciti . m. h. strengthens anabaptists by his so reasoning frō the place acts . ans. to qu. . p. . of the binding & loosing on earth & in heaven , mar. . calv. resp. non ad alios dirigi sermonem , quam qui rectè ac sincerè ecclesiae se reconciliant . mat. . is nota rule for comforting hypocrites , as if their sins were loosed in heaven . the lord ratifies in heaven what the church doth on earth , though the hypocrite be not pardoned . can. poenir . concil . ancy●an . can. nic. concil . see chemnit . exam . de indul. pag , . p●…r in mat. . d●cu . . v. , . cum 〈◊〉 ex●… on●● l●gi●●mè peractae rata sit apud deum , e●veant ex●ommunicati ne illam contemnant — recepti firmam fiduciam gratiae concipiant . calvin . ergo quisquis admisso delicto suppliciter culpam agnoscit — ab ecclesia veniam impetret , is absolvitur non tantum ab hominibus , s●d ab ipso deo — si ludibrio habet — neque illi cum hominibus jam erit negotium , sed deus erit vindex . pareus . sit tibi ] judicium gitur ecclesiae adversus contumac●s divinam habebit authoritatem . quaecunque ligaveritis ] hilarius . ad terrorem metus maximi . quaecunque ligaveritis ] hieronymus . quia poterit contemptoris fratris haec esse responsio , vel tacita cogitatio , si me despicis , & ego ●ed spicio , potestatem tribuit apostolis , ut sciant qui ab ipsis condemnantur , hominum sententiam divinâ sententiâ roborari . ita cyprian . de un t. eccles. c. . ita chrysostomus . ita augustinus in loc . what ye shall bind ( diodati ) proceeding in knowledge , uprightness , and wisedom . english divines , an. in loc . . whatsoever ye shall bind ( ioh. . cor. . . ) by convincing men of sin against god , or of wrong done to you . the sentence of absolution to the penitent is concional , and so conditional , to the church right proceeding is absolute and juridical . there is not the like measure of visible saintship required of one at his first admission and at his readmission after excommunication . par. . p. . mr. r. . arg. mr. h. makes infants to be no actual covenanters . m. r. arg. . par. . p. , the covenant of grace solemnly entred in baptism , ties us to all church-duties in all congregations , without any special covenant-engagement , making me a special church-brother to these of this congregation only , and that by divine command of a new covenant , different from the gospel-covenant . it is vain doctrine that none can be my church-brother , whom i am to gain , but one under the same only congregational covenant with me . way of the churches , c. . sect . . pag. sect . . cotton of the keys . c. . pag. . mr. hooker survey . a pastor is not as a husband to his own congregation only , for he may perform pastoral duties to other members and congregations . see mr. robinson iustific . of separat . , . in the the same mistake with mr. h. but disputing more nervously then mr. hooker : epaphras though at rome is a minister at coloss. answ. a fixed minist●r labouring among them , in that part of the vineyard : true ; but he was actu primo , habitu all the world over a minister , wheresoever he opened his mouth and tendered the seals . page . page . one must be a member of the visible church , though no member of a congregation , before he can be a pastor of a congregation . a pastor is made a pastor by only ordination , but it follows not , ergo , he is now lawfully made a pastor by ordination separated for any designed and certain flock , consenting and chusing him to be their pastor . when augustine confesseth that the donatists , who separated themselves from the true catholick church , did beget sons to the church , and had the true sacraments , he shews that they were members of the catholick church , though members of a separated church . de baptismo contra donatist . lib. . c. . certe quidem nati erant , nec tamen ad ipsam ecclesiam , de quâ nati erant , per pacis uaitatis vinculum pertinerent ; ergo ipsa generat , & per uterum su●● & per uteros ancillarum ex eisdem sacramentis tanquam ex viri sui semine . the woful absurdities which follow from the membership of pastors and saints confined to one only congregation . churches and members of associate churches are visible professors and members no less than single congregations . a sort of covenant is not denied , but the question is mis-stated . par. . p. . survey , par . . cap. . concl . . pag. , . mr. h. survey , ibid. the blasphem us comparison making the pastor the husband , and the congregation his married wife , until death , is refuted . due right of presbyt . l. . p. . enarist . ep. . concil . carthag . . cap. . concil . sard. cen. . concil . antioch . c. . enarist . de epist. ejectis . sicut vir non debet adulterare suam uxorem , ita neque episcopus ecclesiam fuam , ut eam dimittat . innocen . iii. omnipotens deus conjugium quod est inter episcopum & ecclesiam suo tantum judicio reservavit dissolvendum . calv. com. in isa. . v. . ecclesia agnoscat qualem maritum habere ac revereri debeat ( 〈◊〉 deum ) . luther com. in loc . habetis maritum , non mosem , non petrum , non paulum . bullinger , musculus , gualther , com. in isa. . v. . nor do our divines acknowledge that concil . gener. par . . epistola papae calixti secunda , pag. . allegata est uxor legi , quamdiu vir ejus vivit , rom. , &c. similiter & sponsa episcopi , quia sponsa uxorque ejus dicitur ecclesia . mr. cotton , keys , c. . p. . mr. h. survey , par . . c. . concl . , . the brethren make the pastor a married husband and head of the congregational church , as papists make the pope the head of the catholick church . christum caput ecclesiae universae libentissime confitemuratqui sub christo summ● capite vicarius ejus i● terris , caput , ut sic dicam , ministerialò , non principale rectò nominetur , n●gari nullo modo potest : ita bellarm. de sum. pontif. to . . c. . col . . l. d. & de pontif . rom. l. . c. . so the jesuites of rhemes on eph. 〈◊〉 . v. . though christ in a more divine , ample , absolute , excellent and transcendent sort — be severaign head — in regard of motion , life , spirit , grace ●●suing from him to the members — yet the pope may be ministerial head. way of the churches , c. . sect . . pag. . prop. . for all the joyning of faithful christians into the fellowship , and estate of a church , we finde not in scripture that god hath done it any other way , than by entring all of them together ( as one man ) into holy covenant with himself , to take the lord as the head of his church for their god , and to give themselves to him , and one to another in his fear , &c. m. r. arg p. , . read for this a judicious piece of my reverend and learned brother mr. r. baily , his disswasive from the errors of the time , and the disswasive vindicated , an. . all are converted in ordinary by private men , or by no pastors by our brethrens way . survey par . . c. . p. . by our brethren , pastors , convert not indians . way of the church . c. . pro. . sect . . p. , , . survey par . . c. . . p. . the way of our brethren doth destr●y the ministry . calv. com. gal. . incitavit ad sanciendum ministerii societatem . pelican . ib. synod . ( paulus ) primarius fuerit inter apostolos . pareus , in collegium apostolorum nos receperunt . pisc. me pro apostolo agnoverunt . diodati . beza . symbolum nostrae consensionis dextram dederunt . hieronym . gal. . many churches may put forth a church-power upon one church associate , as iames , cephas and iohn , gal. c. . as apostles received paul into the colledge of apostles . pag. . some chiefe and ordinary church-prophesying , and church-praying is given to the unofficed church , as to the only kindly subject by mr. h. mr. h. survey par . . c. . p. . notes for div a -e mr. h. par . . c. . pag. . mr. h. is dubious what is the instituted church in the new testament . way of the church of n. e. c. . sect . . pro. . pag. , . pa. . par . . p. , . mr. h. makes a church without rulers , to be a ruling church to ordain officers , and excommunicate . mr. cotton keys c. . par . as the presbytery cannot excommunicate the whole church ( though apostates ) for they must tell the church — so neither can the church excommunicate the whole presbytery , because they have not received from christ an office of rule , without their officers . m. cot. contradicts m. h. there is no warrant in the word for a male church-ruling and admitting members , ordaining & excommunicating officers , and yet that is void of rule and office the ep●… to timot●… titus are ne●… ther written to them as to prelats , & pastors of pastors , nor to unoffic'd christians , nor to them as evangelists , but especially as representing elders , to be a copy to officers , to the appearing of christ. pauls presbyt . cap. . ans . to ar . . p. . page , . the logick of mr. h. god set officers in the church ; ergo , the church without officers is a ruling church before they have rulers , is naughty . so mr. robinson , justif. of separat . pref. p. . bishops and elders are the onely ordinary governors in the church — but not essential to the church . sure they must be essential to the governed church . mr. robinson ib. p. . page . by mr. h. the adjuncts beget the subject , the sons the fathers . the churches rev. . . are not a number of unofficed believers , but the believers with doctors and teachers as shining lamps . pareus com. in apocalyp . in loc . candelabris assimilantur — quia ecclesia gestat facem coelest is doctrinae . pignet . apoc. . quia in ea v●rum lumen lucet . marlor . quia in ea sunt prophetae , apostoli , evang●listae — quia lucent per saluberrimam vitae doctrinam . piscat . apoc. ● observ . . candelabra illa quae vidisti — in vera ecclesia instar auri splendet & lucet pura doctrina . so diodati , english annotations , beza . mr. h. survey , p. . it is not a like in a church wanting officers , as in a civil corporation wanting rulers . papists so argue . see jac. gualter . in tabula chronographic . secul . . ad an . . verita . sect . . p. . page . it is not absurd that a politick body destroy its own politick being , when they rem●ve lions & leopards which destroyed h●m . page , . to remove the candlestick is to remove the ministry , and so the church is not a politick church any more . pag. . the way of the churches of christ in n. e. c. . sect . . prop. . p. , . survey par . . c. . p. . officers can be no essential parts of the visible church by mr. h. his way . pag. , . the two first pillars of a presbyterial church , to wit , . framed churches . . formal commissioners sent to presbyteries , are to us no pillars , to mr. h. they are . people that are no stewards have no authority to censure , or thereby to edifie . how pastors are regulated in the exercise of their calling . survey c 〈◊〉 . par . . p. . the churches united have more power extensively after they are united than before ; but not intensively , & in nature more actual voluntary combination is no pillar of the presbyterian church . page , . twelve pastors feed congregations in jerusalem , or in some large city in cōmon , not being fixed any of them to any one congregation , all the are pastors to all the congregations , & yet it is not possible physically , that any one man can reside in all the congregations ; here shall be divers non-residents & pluralists , but not in a prelatical sense . the elders of the presbytery are fixed and proper pastors , only to one flock and pastor in common , in matters of common concernment to all the rest of tho associate churches . a pastor may administer the supper of the lord , which he doth as a pastor to these of another congregation , yet is he not a fixed proper pastor to those of another congregation . cotton keys . c. . n. . p. . mr. h. survey . par . . c. . p. . way of the churches of christ in new england . c. . sect . . pag. hr. h. survey . par . . c. . p. , , , . our brethren destroy synods , though they give them the name of ordinances of christ. mr. h. survey . par . . p. , , . when no more is given to a synod but to counsel and advise , it is for that no more an ordinance of god , then a private man or woman giving a counsel is an ordinance of god. private christians and women giving counsel to men may as well be called an ordinance of christ as a synod . survey . par . . c. . p. . pag. . a pastor constantly feeds his own flock , and administers the lords supper to forty persons of forty congregations about , as mr. cotton and mr. h. grant : but he hath not fourty pastoral offices for that . mr. h. survey . par . . c. . p. way of the churches of n. e. c. . sect . . p. . survey . par . . c. . p. . pag. . the place mat. . is mistaken by our brethren , contrary to the scope , and to the minde of fathers , doctors , divines , councels , martyrs . so widely d. bils . mistaketh the place m●t. . perpet . go . vernm . c. . why only the nearest churches have real hand in healing offences . the differences betweene elders governing in the presbytery or classis , and of the same elders in their fixed congregations . page . mr. h. sets not down m. r. his words perfectly , but often in halfs , & scarce that , as here . a pastor is not a pastor onely to the assembled congregation , as mr. h. saith , but also to them all severally , and to this or that single person of the flock . m. h. pag. , . though pastors in a synod , by m. cottons grant , put forth pastoral acts upon many congregations , yet shall it never follow , that they are proper & fixed pastors to these congregations : so neither doth this militate against a presbyterian church . page . see bilson , perpetual government , c. . c. . pastors can exercise no jurisdictiō being separated from the court , but pastoral acts of teaching they may in private exercise , and that from house to house . pag. , . sitting in court gives no new power of office to elders , but they cannot put it forth in formal jurisdiction but in the court. it s a mistake all along in mr. h. th●● if an elder put forth pastoral acts in a synod or in a presbytery , to this or that congregation , that therefore he is a fixed pastor to this or that congregation . how wide mr. h. is in his logick , the presbyterian elders determine of special actions & persons , for species determines the act of the genus . neither to be an apostle , nor to be an ordinary pastor , doth so give right to any to feed the flock in macedonia , nor in bithynia , in this flock and congregation , and not in this , without the intervening of some special call of god. pag. , . the separating of ruling and teaching in pastors , in regard of office is unlawful ; but the separating of them in acts and objects is not unlawful , but necessary . see bilson , perpetual government . c. . c. . m. h. doth no less separate ruling & teaching then . presbyterians do . one may be both a classical elder to the associate churches , and a fixed elder to a single congregation , as the same man is both a grand-father and a father to divers children . pag. , . pag. , . a pastor fixed to a congregation may exercise pastoral acts of writing , preaching to other congregations then his own . pag. . pag. . a pastor teaching one congregation fixedly , and ruling in collegio other associate churches is no prelate . pag. . pag. . . pag. . of the onerousness and labour in governing associating churches ; how it is the same with onerousness & labor in counselling united churches , and how it is not the same . the obligatition to brotherly help to my brother , though it be as onerous as an obligation of teaching the flock , it doth not tie me to the use of all the means positively to go all the world over , and warn and admonish as the other doth . apostles were t●ed not as apostles , but as christians to eat the lords supper in all churches all the world over . pag. , . pag. , . a man is tyed to use more means for feeding the single fl●ck , that he is a fixed pastor unto , then as a christian he is to use toward other churches . mr. cotton keys of the kingdom , c. . pag. . pag. . pag. . . a commission in a presbytery is no new office , but apower of order appointed by the god of order . pag. , . due right of presbytery . the votes of associated churches added to the votes of the elders of a congregation strengtheneth , but hindereth not right proceeding , except by accident . due right . p. . pag. . the sounder part of the church is the church . pag. . how the ordinances are not conttary to the wisedome of christ though they attain not always finem operis . png. . how pastors are pastors in reference to the congregation , and how to the synod , and associated elders . par. . c. . pag. . it is , and must be the same office of a pastor in reference to the congregation , and in reference to the presbytery & synods superior . pag. . pag. . the classical elder hath nothing to do with prelacy . niceph. l. . c. . sozom. l. . c. tripart . hist. l. c. . cypr. epist. . bernar. epist. . euseb. l. . c. . hieronymus in episto . ad titum , & ad euagrium epist. . ad nepotianum de vita clericorum . socrates l. . c. . cyprian . l. . ep. & . l. . epist. . concil . antiochen . c. . bernard . in canti . ser : . & epist. . brightm . in apol. . see archiep. spalaten . de rep. eccles. l. . c. . edwar. didoclav . in altar . damasceno . p. , , , . & fere per totum . beza de gradibus ministr . c. . &c. august . epist. . whitaker cont. . q. . c. . sect . . waldenses aut aeneas silvius histor. bohem. c. . thom. waldens . doct. fidei , tom. . l. . c. . tom c. . reinold . colloq . cum ha●t . a presbyterial church was at ierusalem , rome , thessalonica , ephesus , &c. synod at westminster . the apostles act as an ordinary presbytery , act. . the church of rome was a presbyterial church . the church of th●ssalonica , of antioch , presbyterian churches . steph. cum aliquid temporis ib● consumpsissent . b●z● . aliquandiu , tempore non parvo . lorin . in loc. non solum p●trus , sed pau●us aliique apoli & apostolici viri versati sunt . marloratus , hoc quidam exponunt quod sacer coetus in eorum d●iro cogeretur . pareus com. in rom. . observemus ve●o ecclesiae nomen paucis fide●●ous christi nomine congregatis convenire — ubi duo vel tres — nemo tamen inde collig●● ecclesiam dom●sticam esse infallibilem . b●za in rom. . . neque mirum est in tam ampla civitate distinct●s fuisse fidelium coetus . calv. ib. horum itaque domum ecclesi●m dixit , non solum quia christi fidem exceperunt , sed quia hospitio credentes admitterent . that sund●y churches send messengers prove a meeting of the elders of those churches , for all men & women who are the churches of the redeemed ones could not meet in one place . m. h. survey , par . . c. . p. . there is a church-power in a synod without and above a single congregation . mat. . cannot warrant me to gain no trespassing brethren in a church way , but onely the brethren of that congregation of which i am a member . narration of the practise of the churches of n. e. p. , , . way of the churches of ch●m . n. e. c. . sect . , , . cotton keyes . par. . c . sect . . p. . the independence of a church in an island is its affliction , not its power . there are neither the same perfect operations , nor the adequate and complete end of edification in a church in an island . pag. . the non-existence of associated churches addeth nothing to the power intrinsecal of a congregation to rule the associated churches if they were . page . the adding of associated churches to a wilderness-church doth strengthen & perfect , and not nullifie the intrinsecal power of the wilderness-church . pag. . when scandals fall out far off or near hand , how association of churches removeth them . the limiting of church-edifying and church-comforting to one onely congretien whereof the man onely is a sworne member , is an unwarrantable and comfortless way . the way of churches of n. e. c. . sec. . p. . c. . sec. . sec. . p , . mr. h. survey , pa. . c. . p. . m. cotton , keys of the kingd . c. . p. , , ● . mr. h. par . . c. . p. , . sec. . ground one and the same nature agrees to the congregational , presbyterial church , &c. pag. . . the congregational , presbyterial , national , oecumenick churches are species specialissimae . how a congregation is an intire church . tertul. in apolog . though the churches of believers , men and women be before the apostles , evangelists , pastors , presbyteries , synods , yet it follows not , therefore must apostles , pastors , synods have their calling and authority from those churches . sect. . p. . mr. hooker acknowledges that divers meetings and church conventions may may be all under one presbyterial government , only he will not call them churches . way of the church . c. . sect . par . . survey par . . c. . p. , &c. mr. h. must be forced by his own principles to grant there is one visible church which cannot meet conveniently 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the same place , and yet under the same eldership . mr. h. yeilds to us a presbyterian church at ierusalem . page . fixedness or no fixedness of the elders of ierusalem to their own proper congregations is altogether accidental to the church presbyterial . the apostles fixed feeding at rome , at corinth , is not opposite unto , but of that same nature with his feeding pastorall all the world over . all the incongruities that are the onely arguments of mr. h. against a presbyterial church , are militant against the presbyterial church which mr. h. grants was at ierusalem . mr. h. well near also yieldeth that there was a presbyterian church at antioch , ephesus , rome . there are the like reasons , that the multitudes of believers at rome , antioch , ephesus , corinth , samaria , thessalonica , could not meet in one place , and so there must be in these huge cities many congregations under one presbyterial government , as for the multitudes at ierusalem . what is meant by church , act. . were added to the church . mr. h. inclines to exp●… the word c●…h of the ●●●thful , saul made havock of the c●… . e●… , there is 〈◊〉 presbyteri● a church . how watery is this l●gick ? par. . c. . p. . mr. r. argument , mat. . from allusion unto the jewish sanhedrim abused , not answered . m r. is not for all appeals whatsoever , justor unjust , but for such as are edifying and necessary , and relieves from tyrannicall oppression the plaintiff . pag. . the removing of scandals , mat. . cannot be of onely scandals between brother and brother of the same congregation , except i must not owne as brethren to be gained , those of another church beside me . christ willeth every little congregation to exercise discipline upon an offender , ergo , there is no discipline to be exercised in a greater church . so mr. h. but the contrary rather strongly followeth . the sanhedrim was not mixed by institution . pauls presbyt . c . p. . the church , mat. . is to be obeyed in the lord by the people , but the church of the people is not to be obeyed in the lord by the people . women are as essential parts of the believing church as men , and wom●n must no more blindly believe what the church believes , than men ; nor must their faith in discerning the voice of christ in this pastor , not in this , be blindly included in the males discerning and so women must be a part of the binding and loosing church , mat. . survey , par . . c. . p. . the church principally meant mat. . must be the binding and loosing brethren which are the church fi●st●y , the officers are onely separable adjuncts thereof , saith m. h. par. . c. . p. . when all the office●s turne wolves , the people must complain to the people , & when the people turn familists , socinians &c. to whom s●a●l the officers complain , acco●ding to m. h. minde ? the officers cannot binde potestate officii , since the keys were given to the male-church , before the officers had being , as m h saith . we cannot tell the church of jerusalem or galatia , by m. h. women have no less a tacit consent , a faith of practise in eschewing the society of the excommunicated , in admitting of him again , and of all members , & in election of officers , than men , and in other duties recommended to church-members . let m. h. shew how women are all excluded from church duties in their way , more than men . so cypr. juban . epist. . pag. . nam petro primum dominus super quem adificavit ecclesiam — mat. . istaem potestatem ( clavium ) dedit — & post resurrectionem — sicut me misit pater , &c. firmilian . ad cypr. epist. . cypr. pag. . n. . hinc intelligi potest quod soli petro christus dixerit , quemcunque ligaveritis , matth. , &c. quando in solos apostolos insufflavit christus dicens , accipite spiritum sanctum , &c. the word church can signifie no other , but the ruling church mat. . and the notation of the word church in our brethrenssense is neither mat. . nor elsewhere . see how bilson , perpetual g ve n. c. . mistakes in this . though women , children of age , and servants , be excluded from governing , yet the question now is a farre other thing , whether the word church , mat. . if it be the church of redeemed ones meeting to and for publick ordinances in the same place , include not women , &c. the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , church , is ever taken in scripture according to the subject matter and scope of the place , and so must the binding and loosing , or excommunicating church , matth. . be taken , and cannot note a company of redeemed ones , men , women , servants , children of riper age come together in one to partake of word , seals , censures , the onely acception of the word church that our brethren can give us from scripture . the church , matth. . & cor. . includes all who meet for the publick worship , elders , men , women , servants , aged children , every one according to their place , according as paul rebukes , comforts , teaching in his epistle , cor. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rom. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the women in their daily practice are concerned in conscience to censent unto , or dissent from the sentence of excommunication , or forgiving and re-admiting again , and that upon rules of the gospel as well as men . caelv . inst. l. . c. . sec. . instit . l. . c. . sec. . instit. l. . c. . sec. . l. . . . pet. martyr , cor. . dav. parens in explic . catech . q. . art. . obj. . p. , . com. ●n mat. gul. buc●n . loc . com . de potest . eccles. & syno . lo. . q. . dan. tilenus synt. dis . . de concil . th. . ● . 〈◊〉 , . profess . leyd . synop. purio . theolo . diso . . thes . pag. . ioan. pisc. com . in ma●th . ● . d eccles. lo. . thes . . willet syn. papis . con . . gen. conc. . . pag. , . b●za in ●n . mat. c. . trem. lius in vers . syr. mat. . , . iunius dis . . de discip. eccles . th . 〈◊〉 . th . . ioan. comerio tract . in quo eccles. roman . p●ae exam . c. . pag. . anton. walaeus to. . defunct . eccles. pag. . wende●●n theol. l. . c. . fig. vii . q. . pag. , . what is ment by the angel of the church , rev. . mr. h. his conceit removed . rob parker . de politia eccles. l. . c. . n. . ex his qui eluctari , capit nobiscum , sentire necesse est ecclesiam fidelium à christo intellectam esse ( mat. . ) non quia simpliciter consideratur , sed quia disciplinam exercet juxta temperamentum aristocraticum in presbyterio , ecclesiam quippe primo loco dic ecclesiae praecise partem aristocraticam , id est , presbyterium existimamus , quae vero posteriore his verbis , si ecclesiam non audietit , &c. sic excommunicantem propter contemptum ecclesiam , includit , & non decernentem tantum & examinantem , tum & partem ecclesiae democraticam continet , quâ populi consensus ad excommunicationem necessarius est . the place act. . . paul saluted the church is wronged by m. h. the word church is not in scripture , as our brethren take it . nor is there a place in old or new testament , or in any divines , imaginable for the sole male-church . it cannot be denied but all in their owne respective ways officers , men , women , servants , cor. . did rebuke and censure , and also forgive the incestuous corinthian . the way of the church , c. . sect . . p. , . women by our brethrens way , servants , and children of age , who meet to partake of the ordinances , word , and seals , as our brethren say , must be parts of the church , matth. . cotton keyes . par . . burroughs iren , if as many doe excommunicate , as paul writes unto , cor. . and as paul rebukes for not mourning , and were a part of the lump in danger to be leavened , and were to keep the feast , and eschew the company of the scandalous , that is , the whole redeemed church , as mr. h. argues , then sure women must excommunicate , . cor. . as well as men . see mr. h. par . . c. . p. . notes for div a -e mr. hookers . survey ; par . 〈◊〉 . cap. . p. , . mr. h. his fit persons the first subject of the keyes , ●●amined , is found light sect. . p. . unlettered brethren are not fit persons to judge of sound and of heretical doctrine , as m. h. survey , pa●… . c. . propos . . p. . consent is in the people , but no judicial authority , as antiquity and our divines prove . calvin com. in cor. . in horum primorum confessu prima erit cognitio , inde res ad populum , sed jam praejudicata , deferebatur . p. martyr in cor. . de excom . quaest . pareus in cor. 〈◊〉 . cyprianus ad cornelium episcopum romanum scribit se multum apud plebem laborare , ut pax daretur lapsis , quam si per se dare potuisset , nō erat cur in plebe persuadenda se fatigaret . cyprian . epist. . examinabuntur singula praesentibus & judicantibus vobis . cyprian . epist. . . . quando à primordio episcopatus mei statutum nihil sine consilio vestro ( presbyter is & diaconis fratribus scribit ) & sine consensu plebis meae privatâ sententiâ gerere . cyprian . epist. . vehementer contristatus sum j. c. acceptis ●●eris vestris , cum mihi propositum semper & votum sit universam fraternitatem vestram incolumem continere & gregem illibatum &c. bucer in mat. . ut romae olim , ita hic potest as populi , authoritas senatus . calv . instit. l. . c. . num . . cyprianus sic clerum ( in excommunicatione ) praefuisse , ut plebs interim à cognitione non excluderet . bucan . de disciplina eccl. l. . quaest . . jus excommunicandi penes presbyterium , sed tamen consciâ & approbante tota ecclesiâ . tilen . disp. . thes. . quamvis scripta sit epistola ad to●…m ecclesiam corinthiacam , non tamen omnia quae in ea continentur ad singulos pertinent , ut ex elequentiae , scientiae encomiis patet . pareus in catech . ursin. quaest . . . . pag. . beza de gradibus minist . cap. . viretus dialo . , . zwingl . cor. . profess . loyd . sy●… . disp . . th . . synedrii authoritas , popu●i consensus . ursinus ad fred●… . . elect. & . . iunius , eccles. . . cypr. cod . vetust . epist. . coram omni syn●goga jubet deus constitui sacerdotem , & ●stendit ordinationes sacerdotales non nisi sub populi assistentis consci●nt â si ri oportere , ut plebe praesente , vel detegantur malorum crimina , vel bonorum merita praedicentur , & sit ordinatio justa & legitima quae omnium suffragio & judicio fuerit examin●ta ; nec hoc in episcoporum tantum & sacerdotum , sed & in diaconorum ordination : bus observasse apostolos animadvertimus . origen . contr . cels . lib. . senatum ecclesiasticum qui est athenis , corinthi invenies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . m. h. and his brethren following papists , prove their male-church from civil corporations . the example of the people both creating and choosing their major and rulers , brought by mr. h. to prove that the people ordain and call their officers , it popish , and is no rule to us , and the differences are waste . the place 〈◊〉 . . a● submit one to another , is mistak●n by mr. h. it speak●th nothing of chu●ch-subjection . z●…us in loc . 〈◊〉 ux●●es , libero● , & maritis & pa●●ntibus . b●…s , 〈◊〉 in familia & republica . calvia . ubicunque regnat charitas ib● mutu● est servit●● . b●za , mutua reverentia . hi●ronymus , baines on ephes. . c●jetan . in ●ocum . t●…llian . in apolo . praesident probati qu●que . seniores honorem istam non pre●io , sed testimonio adepti . theophylact. in mat. . non solum quae solvunt sacerdotes s●nt soluta , sed quaecunque & nos injuria affecit , vel ligamus , vel solvimus , & ipsa 〈◊〉 ligata & soluta . 〈◊〉 o● . in tim. . synagoga & posteri ecclesia seniores habuit , sine q●o●um consilio ni●●● agebatur in ecclesiâ , quod qua negligentià ob●…t nescio , ●●si forte doctorum desid●● — magis superb●● . rebuking mat , . is wildly mistaken by mr. hoo●●r . mr. h. his division of power of . rebuking , . of judging , a narrow and a weak dichotomy . by mr. h. his way , the flock are over the shepherds , the flock feed , and watch for the soul of the pastors . it is but a poor evasion of mr. h. that the people doth excommunicate the officers , not as officers , but as members ; for none are sure to be excommunicate , but as scandalous and rotten members . the ruling elders there alone with the people have no power by the word to judge the pastors . pag. , . it is no staple rule , that one cannot be compelled to joyn in a congregation . the ruler makes no church-laws , but he may compel christians , yea and subdued heathens in some case to obey them when they are made . pag. , . there is no scripture that unofficed men have a power of creating of officers . ames . in bellarm . enervato ●om . , l. . c. , oves rationales ( foeminae , adulti , pueri , servi ) possunt eligere sibi pastorem non per jurisdictionem , sed potius per subjectionem . see the mistakes of d. bilson , perpetual governm . c. . page . many bre●h●ē have no divided powers to make ●ne an officer . the fraternity or brethren are in no place of scripture put for the male-church of redemed ones , far less for the congregational male church . way of the churches , cap. . sect . . pag. , . stephan . in concord . n. t. mr. leigh crit. sac. n. t. p. . beza 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 achava pro fratrum coetu . calvin . pro fratribus collectivè sumptis . english divines and lorin . ipsam ecclesiam . esthius . qui regeneratione fratres sunt . piscator . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , die brud●rschaff id est , totam multitudinem fratrum : sic infra . v. . sic latini nobilitatem pro nobilibus . cyprian . lib. . epist. . cum fraternitatis nostrae vel utilitas vel necessitas sic utique gubernetur — fraternitatem universam meo nomine salutate . so cypr. lib. . c. . augustine . basilius epist. ad galliae episcopos fratres . if brethren & church be all one , women must be no members of the church . m. h. makes censuring no act of ruling . cottons keyes ; c. . n. . p. . excommunication is one of the highest acts of rule in the church , and therefore cannot be performed but by some rulers : now where the elders are cu●pable , there be no rulers left in that church to censure them . l●x-rex , 〈◊〉 . pag. , , & seq . page . m. h. abus●s , but expounds not the place heb. . in making all pastoral autority over the people to be in the pastors , presiding and ordering of the meeting in the censures , especially of excommunication . calvin . ut plebs fidem & reverentiam pasto●●bus habeat . ●ar●us . obedient in domino . marlorat . in summo pretio habeant cum charitate , thess. 〈◊〉 . piscat . hortatur ad obedientiam erga ipsorum duces & ductores , id est , pastores , ●●ctores , gubernatores . cajetan . subditos ad obedientiam hortatur . esthius idem . survey , par . 〈◊〉 . c. . sect . . p. . cypr. lib. 〈◊〉 . e● . . pa● . . ca. p. . par. . c. . p. ● the way of our brethren in most of 〈◊〉 p●…ples is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 episcopius arminianorum antesignanus in respons . ad di●ēmata decem pentificia , to . quaesit . . p. . nuspiā sub ecclesiae nomine pastores , episcopi , doctores veniunt , uti videre est , act. . . & . . & . . . , . & cor. . . & . . philip. . . pag. . si quaesitor secundo sensu à nobis judicato ecclesiae vocem sumit , unam sanctam ca ▪ holicam christianam multitudinem vere p●o um & simplicium christianorum reperiri , qui ubique in sacris christ● oves aut ov●le , christi corpus , & ecclesia vocantur , pro certo et●ā ap●d nos esse , professio●em cum dicimus ( not●m ecclesiae , inquit id●m episcop . part . . disp . . thes . . ) eam intelligi volumus , quâ non singulitantum , sed plerique singulatim , doctrinam christi salutarem profitentur dictis ac factis : sed juncti etiam ea faciunt quae deus fieri voluit , & quae non nisi in coetu fieri poss●nt . remonst . in declara● . suâ c. . 〈◊〉 . , . thes . . extern●m mandatorum jesu christi observationem n●tam esse arminius in disp . . . . signa haec sunt verae fidei , professio , & vitae s●cundum spiritus praescriptum & instinctum institutio , quod ad externas actiones attinet , de quibus ●olis judicare possumus homines . disp . . . . concilium nullum ( maxime orthodoxum ) potest successoribus suis praescribere episcop . par . . disp . . . . nec enim fas est , ut quis se socium in celebratione nominis ac beneficiorum jesu christi faciat ejus quem ni●il minus quem christianum esse novit . ecce manifesta est separatio prorsus illicita . idem ●●sp . th . . si vero ad decidendum alicujus in religione cap●t● , sive veritatem sive necessitatem indicantur , non tantum non utiles esse conventus , sed pericalosos etiam & tyrannicos asser●mus . r menst . ●eclar . c. . th . . . conditio synodorum , si quod in iis statutum est , libere semper examini ( ioh . . thess. . . ) & ulteriori tevisioni subjectum relinqu●tur . r monst . apolog. c . scriptura testatur nos per fidem fieri filios dei , membra corpor●s jesu christi , im● corpu● jesu christi ( visibile de quo l●quuntur ) ut unum quidem corpus cum eo esse , per eundemque fiuci spiritum . ioan. volkelius socinianus de vera religione , lib. . cap. . particularis ecclesia eo hominum coetu continetur , qui in certo quodam loco convocatus est : veluti est ecclesia unius domus ac familiae , c. . p. . animadvertendum est ecclesiam loci illius , in quo res ista geritur , totam in unum locum ●ogendam esse , ut nimirum tum omnes , de ejus , qui excommunicandus est , peccato justissimum judicium faciant , tum ipsius animadversâ mal●tiâ uno consensu eum in christi membris nullo pacto haberi posse statuant . c. . p. . ubi sit vera ecclesia , res non est scitu necessaria ad salutem . c. . p. , . nullae sint notae aspectabilis ecclesiae , & quas credis esse has ( assignatas à protestantibus ) non sint verae . theoph. nicolaides , de ecclesia & missione ministrorum r●su . cap. . p. . ego ostendo socinum affirmare , quaestionem de ecclesia non omnem , sed aliquam , nempe quaenam , & apud quos sit , esse non simpliciter & absolutè , sed vel propemodum vel modo quodam inutilem , resut . c. . p. , . certe etiamsi in ecclesia esse possunt tam boni quam mali ; non est tamen vera christi adspectabilis ecclesia , in qua mali sunt perpetuo . nam mali qui sunt in ecclesia , qua mali , ferendi non sunt , sed aut ad frugem perducendi , vel tandem excommunicandi , ita ut dici non posset jure ( ita plane robinsonus ) in ecclesia esse vel bonos vel malos , . . non dici illo loco , ephes. . christum dedisse pastores — donec occurra●●us omnes — in ecclesia perpetuo extituros apostolos . pesse enim verba illa ad sola apostolo●um tempora referri , qu●bus scilicet multa extabant quae ab unitate fidei remorissima erant , & tantum doceri quodnam sit officium pasterum . semen esse semper ad finem mundi , etiamsi non sint qui illud spargunt . c. . . in prima apostolica ecclesia , semel tantum ad consilia itum est . c. . p. . an li●ear docere absque missione , hoc est , an absque antegressa humana vocatione & licentia ab aliis datâ , quam ille mediatam missionem vocat , liceat ei qui ad docendum alios aptus , & vitae inculpatae , alios docere evangelium christi . notandum vero hic imprimis illud est , nullam missionem quae ab hominibus proficiscatur , vel mediatam dari . missio solius dei est jesu christi : adeo ut nec ipsi apostoli quenquam mittere propriè loquendo , potuerint , aut misisse legantur . . qui nova revelat ei missione nec opus est , nec esse potest : apostlis opus fuisse missione , non ministris qui nunc sunt . pag. . so. cinus satis esse ad munus publicè docendi comprobandū , si illi ita velint , qui cohortationes & explicationes istas audiunt , id est , solam & nudam electionem populi absque ordinatione pastorum facere comprobatum ministrum : belle. socin . adversus gabr. ementropium adversus cap. . — p. . quaenam & ubi sit ecclesia , plane incertū . socinus . resp. . — ad resp. andr. volani , nullus deinceps hominibus quantumvis doctrinâ — & authoritate , adde etiam sanctitate pollentibus , nullus hominum conciliis quamvis sanctè in speciem & legitimè congregatis , nulla denique — visibili ecclesia quamvis perpetua & universali — in judicio — divinorum oraculorum interpretatione standum nobis ionas schlighintingius ex praelectione . ioan. crelbi com. ad galat. in c. . p. . duo autem tantum sunt quae hoc christianae communionis vinculum ru●pere possunt : vel pestilens aliquod dogma , quod salutem prorsus adimat ; vel mores minime christiani — si in errore pertinaciter haereat ; aut etiam ob flagitia pro synagoga satanae haberi debeat , nihilominus ob mores flagitiosos , nisi prorsus sunt flagitiosi , non tam licet uni alicui , aut multi minori parti ab aliis recedere , quam omnibus ab uno , vel longè pluribus à paucioribus , si ipsis interea paucioribus liceat secundum dei praecepta vivere , ac conscientiae suae consulere , & nullus extat caeteris christianus purior — vel etiam sperari possit . valentinus smalcius in refutat . thesium wolfangi iranthii , disp . . pag. . ubi vero non est obedientia , ibi nulla est vera ecclesia . idem pag. . vera & sincera doctrina forma est ecclesiae , quae scilicet illi dat esse , & gyrus est valdè ridiculus , si pro notis ecclesiae doctrina vera & salutaris censeatur ; tam enim incertum est , ubi sit vera christi ecclesia , quam incertum est ubi sit vera & salutaris doctrina , nota enim semper est notior eo cujus est nota . ref. thes. de ordine eccles. disp . . p. . an hujusmodi constitutio ( missio ) sit prorsus necessaria ad constituendum verbi dei ministrum : hoc autem nos negamus , nihil enim tale ( quod caput rei est ) legimus in descriptione eorum quae ad episcopum constituendum requiruntur , ubi tamen omnia ea recenseri necesse est , sine quibus munus istud consistere nequit ; nec curandum est quicquam , quod ii qui alios docent ab illis nec vocati nec missi sunt , dommodo secundum canonem apostolicum apti sunt ad munus illud obeundum . cateches . raccovien . de ecclesia christi , c. . pag. . non multum juvat signa verae ecclesiae inquirere — at tenere salutarem doctrinam , cum ecclesiae christi sit natura , signum illius , si propriè loquatis , esse non potest , cum signum à re cujus est fignum differre oporteat . c. . , . nonne ii qui docent in ecclesia , ut singulari aliqua ratione mittantur , opus habent ? resp. nullo modo — apostolus describens diserte omnia quae ad constituendas personas ejusmodi pertinent , nullam missionis facit mentionem . — cum his duabus rebus p●aestant , vitae innocentia , & ad docendum aptitudine , proper ejusmodi constitutionem meritò apud omnes justam authoritatem invenire debent . ita episcop . disp . . th . , . ostorod . institut . cap. . defens . ●ocin . tract . de eccles. & minist . miss . contra miedzebo , c. , . falsum est apostolos semper requisivisse in ministro ordinationem . andr. radecius in notis in resut . nodi gord. c. . absque approbatione aliorum aliquem munus aliquod ob●re non posse concedimus , sed hac ratione missio eliditur , nam ut liberum est in liberâ republicâ , eum qui aprus sit ad munus obeundum eligere , sic in christi ecclesia , eum qui aptus est ad docendum alios ad id munus eligere , notum est orbi christiano arminianos & socinianos tolerantia●● , locum habere debere profiteri in omnibus doctrinae capitibus , exceptis paucissimis , quae fundamentalia vocant . episcop . disp . . th . . remonst . in apol. ubique in declar . in praef. arminius ubique libertatem prophetandi vastam praedicat . theoph. nicolaid . in resut . tract . de exer . de ecclesia , c. . socin . com. m. . epist. ioan. & ubique . socin . tractatu de eccles. pa. . ecclesia significat omnes non professione tantum , sed simul etiam re ipsa christi fideles & revera pios — p. . ecclesiae nomine intelligere debent coetus omnes adspectabiles , qui christi salutarem doctrinam profitentur . adolp . venator . in declarat . sua , pag. . credo ecclesiam coetum esse in unum evocatum , ad audiendum ea quae divina & spiritualia sunt , & ad salurem spectant . quae ad salutem necessaria paucissima sunt — remonst . in confess . cap. . sect . . sub uno tamen praecepto sidei in jesum christum ( sed verae , sed vivae per charitatem operantis ) comprehendi possunt . theoph. nicolaid . refut . tract . de eccles. c. . s. . c. . socinus tract . de eccles. sect . . august . contra donatistas . though the people 's not consenting may hinder excommunication to be , it shall never follow , that therefore the people have judicial power to excommunicate . the keyes by all interpreters not a judicial power of officers . wilson dict. the power of teaching and ruling . leigh . potestas animadversionis & poenarū est & symbolū docendi . beza . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 metaph. occonomi potestas , es. . chrysost. hom. . in matth. magna potestas notatur . august . de civ . dei , lib. . cap. . beda in ioan. potestas solvendi & ligandi . cypr. epist. ad lapsos ep. . alias lib. . epist. . et tibi dabo claves — inde per temporum & successionum vices episcoporum ordinatio & ecclesiae ratio decurrit , ut ecclesia super episcopos constituatur , & omnes actus ecclesiae per eosdem propositos gubernetur , cum hoc itaque divina lege fundatum sit , miror quosdam audaci temeritate sic mihi scribere voluisse , quod ecclesia in episcopo & clero & in omnibus stantibus . women , servants , & others have the key of love as well as the male-church . how the church is the subject of the keys , . virtual . . formal . . the object . keys , cap. . prop. . the subject of the keyes according to mr. cotton . cotton , keyes , cap . . the first subject . receiveth that power reciprocally . . it first addeth and putteth forth the exercise of that power . . it first communicateth that power to others . keys , chap. . p. . prop. the place cor. . . all things are yours &c. misinterpreted by mr. cotton . if the congregation in abstracto , as the congregation , be the first subject of all officers , gifts , graces , by this , all things are yours , then the godly saints visible are excluded from christ onely , because they are not members of a congregation , and no promises of a new heart , of remission , are made to any , but to and for the congregation . the scriptureless and unproved assertions concerning the male-church excluding women . all power of office is by mr. h. only in moderating and opening the assembly , which is no power of jurisdiction . men have not the being of pastors by every new call to preach . essence and unity of the visible church chap. . it may be said if professors be members baptized to one only congregation , they are unbaptized when they depart and turn members of another congregation . the apostle & john baptist asked for no congregation but immediatly upon confession baptized . the apostles preached and baptized in all places , as ordinary officers by the same command , mat. . . by which we teach and baptize . concilium nic. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , socrat. l. . c. . concilium chalced . c. . every bishop is a bishop of the universal church , as is the pope . doct. ioan. crakantborp in defens , eccles. anglica . contra m. antonii de dominis archiep. spalato injurias anno . ed. per ioan. barkham c. . p. , . episcopi omnes , quâ episcopi , universalis ecclesiae pastores sunt consulendo , hortando , monendo , arguendo , increpando , scriptis simul & voce alios omnes instruendo , & cum vel haeresis ulla vel schisma grassari coeperit , velut incendium publicum illud restinguendo & ne latius serpat providendo . cyprian . l. . epist. . pastores multi sumus , unum tamen gregem pascimus , & oves universas quas christus suo sanguine & passione quaesivit , colligere & fovere debemus . the sole fraternity neither is , nor is called by any scripture , the redeemed or governing church . cypr. l. . ep . . plebs maxime potestatem habet vel dignos sacerdores eligendi vel indignos recusandi . cypr. l. . ep . . alias ep . . lib. . ep . . alias . lib. . ep . . alias ep . . m. tho. goodwyn and mr. philip nye , preface to mr. cottons treatise of the keyes . the people have no causal virtue in judging , but onely in consenting by the judgement of disc●etion to the sentence . the argument is re●orted . pag. , . there is a necessity of telling the presbyterial church , by m. h. his own argument . page ● . m. tho goodwyn , mr phil. nye , epist. to the reader prefixed to the treatise of the keyes . pastors & ruling elders are equal as touching power juridical , but as touching the power pastoral of the keys of knowledge , they are not equal , but the pastor is above the other pag. , . no scripture for the judicial power of the male-church , but matth. . which is to m. h. a church of redeemed men and women meeting in one place to partake of all the ordinances . m. cott. keys , c. . p. , . as act. . . exo. . . mar. . . act. . . d. ames . de consc . l. . qu. . . . . sect. , p. , . due right of presb. c. . sect . . p. , , , . the office power is not a part , but the whole power of the keys . page . the church mat. . binding & loosing is not a church of selected persons , by our brethrens way . way of the churches of christ in n. e. c. . pro sect . . p. , . the church of believers built on the rock is not the formal first , and proper subject of the keys . how the officers are above the church of believers , and the church of believers above them . the offices & officers are with as little sense included in the keys , as if we would say , the king and the royal office are included in the royal power . there is no church of only believing males wanting officers in scripture . beza 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , non dedit , sed dare promittit . bull. non dicit dedi . pareus promittit in futurum . how christ gives to peter the keys , as representing the officers . page . mr. h. with no better logick may prove the general and councel of war , the major and aldermen are not the first formal subject of their respective powers , as pastors & elders cannot be the same formal subject of the keys . pauls presb. c. . p. , . because the bre●hren lay not hands on nor ordaine ministers at all , therefore they do not so lay on hands , and ordain as the officers do . page . pauls presb. c. . p. , . the ministerial spirit of forgiving and retaining sins in the external court , though not in a concional way , is due to the ruling , as to the teaching elder . the male-churches ordaining wanteth an institution of christ. pag. . pauls presbyt . c. . p. . it s childish to say , because a sermon is closed before the censure be dispensed , therefore there is no application of the word made to the conscience of delinquents in excommunication . officers are superfluous in dispensing censure , by m. h. his way . way of the churches , c. . sect . . prop. . p. , . survey , ch . . arg . . p. . survey , ch . . par . . p. . mr. h. takes the word church in the magna charta , matth. . & . sometimes for visible saints , male and female . . sometimes for the church of elders . and . here , for the male-church without officers and women , and other visible saints . members judg and censure , & excommunicate one another , and yet they bear not rule over one another , as m. h. if all be rulers mutually one to another , as m. h. must say that word , obey them that are over you in the lord , must be spoken only to women and children . peter was not visibly blessed , as magus , mat. . nor did he represent hypocrites like iudas , who are m. h. his saints and make the same confessiō m. h. deprives all women & believing children of age of all comfort from confessing christ as peter did , and of being built on the rock , because they are not capable of the keyes . mr. h. gives to none the benefit of the faith , joy of believing , peace , con solation in the like confession of peter , mat. . but only in & through visible membership of a single congregation , which is as due to magus the forcerer , as to all real believers . pag. . a contraction in m. h. his first and proper & formal subject of the keys . mr. h. must hide somthing under that , that professiō is enough to evidence the ministerial actions of judas and such to be valid . pag. . . the epistles to timothy and to titus must , by mr. h. h●s way , be written to unofficed brethren , the males only of a congregation . the spiritual qualifications for calling of ministers , as mr. h. describeth them , as being able to relish the savour of spiritual administrations , to discern & know the voice of christ & follow him , &c. are given to women and to all . pag. . the argument of mr. r. that there be no rules in the word how the male-church should rule & judge , ergo , there is no such judging church , stands unanswered . mr. h. his way overturns the ministry . see mr. iohn collins his vindic . minist . evangel . an . . the question accurately and clearly discussed . the pulpit guarded with arg. an . . a plea for the use of gospel-ordinances , by hen : laurence against mr. dell , . p. , . vindication of presbyt . governm . and ministry , by the ministers of the province of london , an . . m gillespy miscel. q. . p. , , . &c. vindic. minist . evang. by the ministers of london . the ius divinum of presbyt . c. . p. . ch. . p. . m. h. his way destroys the ministry of the n. testament . mr. h. denies that the highest abilities that are required in the epistles to timothy & titus , are required to be in such as open and shut heaven by the keys . page . page . due right . l. . c. . the ninth argument of m. r. stands unanswered , the aposties made the church a politick church by framing organs official in it . the feeders & the fed church are different , but this fed church is not the ruling and judging church . mr. h. gives to unofficed men what is peculiar to pastors . the church is no politick church before they have officers . way of the church of n. e. c. . sect . . p. , , . & p. . mr. h. denies the signification of the keyes given to all officers contrary to all the learned read , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 isa. . . isa. . . isa. . . isa. ● . ● . page . mr. h. wrongs this argument of mine , for by mat. . both the power actu primo , and the exercise of binding and loosing actu secundo is given to peter ; ergo , these two cannot be given to all believers as believers . the keys cannot be given to peter , as representing believers , & also as representing the guides . binding and loo●… flowes from th● lords calling to an office , ioh. . . so cyprian as is cited before . the place mat. . must warrant all officers to their official calling and to the acts thereof , to wit , of binding & l●osing by way of preaching . mr. h. grants that by matth. . the keyes are given to peter , as representing the officers also . firmin , separation examined . p. , . the children of israels laying on of hands , nam . . what it was , that it is no shadow for the male-church to ordain officers of the new testament . aria . mont. coetum . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . vatablus , offeret levitas in oblationem domino . menoch . ut hac manuum impositione testentur se levitas contribules suos à se abdicare , & deo quasi munus & sacrificium offerre , in ejus dominium & ministerium transferre . iunius numb . . approbante ecclesia . cyril . alexand. cyprian . epist. . . . de divina ordinatione descendit , ut sacerdos plebe praesente ordinaretur . tertul. apolog. c. . leo mag. epist. . quidam ex populo manus imponebant . iunius . piscator . pareus . cajetan . lorinus . principes tribuum pro populo . lyran. numb . . ponent manus ] quia assensum devotionis electioni debent praebere . a filis israelis beda , sub multorum testimonio & cognitione facienda est electio , ut examinatio digna celebretur , ut nemo reprehendere possit , debent enim testimonium habere bonum . jer. . . psal. . . rev. . . job . . psal. . . judg. . psal. . . act. . . act. . . mark . . psal. . ● . binding and loosing are acts of authority by the scripture in rulers , who have command of prisons , which unofficed people have not , they not being rulers . the true sense of that , i will give to thee the keys of the kingdom , &c. it s not said , mat. . that christ promiseth the keys to the church of redeemed ones . the evasion of mr. h. that christ said , whom do men say that i am ? to the disciples onely , as representing only the male-believers of a single congregation , excluding women and all who so confess christ with the same sinceriey , hath no feet . how far from the minde of sound antiquity and of protestant divines , the places mat. . flesh and blood hath not revealed this ; and , upon this rock , &c. see magdeburgens . hist. vol. . cen. . l. . c. . p. . ib. p. . as super hanc petram , i. c. confessionem . lb. p. . what is the true church , see hist. magd. ib. cent. . l. . c. . p. , . . the magdeburgenses hist. vol. . cen. . l. . c. . p. . expounds it soundly of the perseverance of the saints , not of the visible church , as papists do . mr. h. his exposition of mat. . that peter in that confession represents the male-members of the congregation onely , is contrary to the scope of the text , and to the faith , comfort and blessedness of all believers so confessing . if to be built upon the rock be to be built in a congregational church-frame , then the gates of hell cannot prevail against the office , against the visible frame of congregations . some of our divines make the church of believers , men and women , the virtual subject of the keys , and of all church-power . but mr. h. maketh them more than a virtual subject , for he must make the formal calling and creating of officers , and excommunicating of them , and so preaching , as was the apostle peters case , act. . . and the prophets , act. , . who prayed and laid on hands on saul and barnabas , and sent them as apostles to the gentiles , a formal act of the church of redeemed ones , men and women , servants and children , for which we have no scripture , and as little reason , for we may so say the flint formally makes fire . hist. magdeb. vol. . cen. . l. . c. . p. . those who bear the keys represent christ as sent by him . but this do not the male-church . the scripture makes not every male-church the spouse & body of christ. theoph. nicolaides de miss . minist c. . p. , , , . the male-church of corin'h doth neither judicially forgive , nor is it written unto by paul excluding women & others . chap. . pro. . p. . ch. . sect . . p. . many thousands may be one church . way of the churches of ch. m. in n. e. c. sect . . pro. . p. . . the . proposition concerning a church instituted , way of the churches of n. e. c. . sect . . prop. . p. , , . is examined , & found insufficient & faulty . how our brethren make the seals to be given to their congregation . our brethren describe their church from a church-assembly , and exclude all of another congregation frō their church-assemblies . there is a necessity of church-communion in rebukes , as in seals . way of the churches of christ in n. e. c. . sect . . pag. . cotton , keys of the kingdom , c. . p. . our brethren in the large description of the only instituted church in the new testament make no mention of infants , as do the seven churches of anabaptists , almost in the same terms . propositions concerning church government by the assembly at west . an. . confession of faith of the . churches , called anabaptists , an. . and an. . art. . which church is a company of visible saints , called , and separated from the world , by the word and spirit of god to the visible profession of the gospel , being baptized unto that faith , and joined to the lord , and each to other by mutual agreement ( church-covenant , say our brethren ) in the practical enjoyment of all ordinances commanded by christ their head . art. . independency of jurisdiction is asserted . as also art. . art. . the whole body of men and women are the church which art. . hath power to chuse an ▪ call elders . and art. . to cast out any member . pag. , . see hist. magdeburg . vol. . cent . . l. . c. . pag. , , . cent . . l. c. vii . p. . histor. magdeburg . vol. . l. c. x. pag. , . celeberrima est confessio quam de christo , tum 〈◊〉 de suo , tum reliquorum apostolorum nomine , edidit . pa. . ob. . m. h. teacheth that the church is builded on the rock by the intervening of an hypocritical profession . a hypocritical profession mar. . is never intended by christ to be the meanes of building believers upon the invincible rock , against which hel cannot prevail , as mr. h. saith . mr. ainsworth can. . . the rock whither this dove the church was now fled , seemeth most properly to mean faith in christ , as mat. . . wherein she hideth her selfe , for fear of gods wrath for her sin . iuni●● . my dove that dwells in the secret decree of election , tanquam in rupe inaccessâ , as in an impregnable rock . the church builded upon the rock cannot be the congregation , but the invisible catholick church made visible . hieronymus . contra luceferan . ingemuit totus orbis & arrianum se factum esse miratus est . hilarius . contra auxentium . bellarm. de eccles . l. . c. . gregor . de valen . tom. . p. . eccles. jam . omni tempore esse visibilem stapleton . relect c. . quest . . art . . pag. . azorius . moral . instit . par . . l. . c. . rhemens . in mat. . calvin . institut . l. . c. . d. willet . synopsi . papismi . contr . genes . . . calvin . quorum singuli sunt dei templa . ainsworth , ps. . . two names of a rock are here ; s●laugh , a stony rock or clif , and tsur , a strong or sharp rock . that there is a promise made of the gates of hell not prevailing against the frame of independent congregations , or against persons , such as magus , iudas ( it may be ) in that frame is an abusing of the word , never heard of until m. h. first forged it . thus said also the donatists , august de unit . eccles. c. . cum libero arbitrio homo creatus , & si vult , credit in christum , si non credit — noluerunt homines perseverare , & defecit omnibus gentibus christiana religio , excepta parte donati . see the m●gdeburg . vol. : cent . x. c. . p. . leo in natali apost . petri & pauli , serm. . et dabo tibi claves , &c. tran siv it quidem in alios apostolos vis istius potestatis , sed non frustra uni commendatur quod omnibus ●intimatur ; petro enim singulariter hoc creditur , quia cunctis ecclesiae roctoribus ( non ergo populo ) formal s●st fides & confessio qua christum filium dei viuentis ag●●vit pr●p●●tu . way of the churches of 〈◊〉 . e. c. . sect . . page . hookers surv. par . . ch . xi . page . two sorts of visibilities . the same peter is both an invisible saint , in regard his faith was known to god , and he really blessed ; and also he was a real visible professor by his confession that was audible and visible to men . visibility so expounded is not contrary to invisibility . arist. de repr . sophist . l. . c. . page . mr. h grants a succession of officers & keys to the end of the world . it is a com fortless doctrine , that this or that congregation , or this or that beleever may be thrown off the rock , and may fall from saving grace , ●…ough the congregation universal shall continue on the rock . ames . medul . lib. . c. . de ecclesia mysticè considerata . cap. . de ecclesia instituta . mr. h. his exposition of matth. . . infers the apostasie of real believers . ames . coronis art . . de perserver . arg ▪ : pag. , . si damnatio sola fidelium per has portas intelligatur , tum consistere potest haec promissio cum totali defectu ecclesi● militantis , nihil enim sponderet militantibus ( ecclesiae catholicae membris , ut ex seri● discurfus ) sed solis desunctis . socinus in praelect . theolog. c. . p. . si tamen placeat eos qui in praedictis locis in lib. vitae à constitutione mundi scripti esse dicuntur , satis est ostendisse ibi non de●certis quibusdam hominibus agi , sed de hominum quodam genere . pag. . verum nomen alicujus scriptum esse 〈◊〉 libro vitae , non significat eum nullâ ratione prorsus interire posse . henric. wolfing . lib. de offic . homin . christ. p. . . decretum electionis , communiter loquendo , necessario refertur nō ad certas aliquas personas , sed ad certum hominum genus qualitate aliqua obedientiae vel inobedientiae praeditum . suarez in opus . lib. . de auxil . c. . lib. de praedest . c. . num . , . lib. . de praedest . c. . cumel . variar . disp . tom . . p. . ledesma . . . q. . art . . pag ▪ . mr. h. holds the vaging necessity of did. ruiz , & some other pelagianising jesuits , that this or that man may fall away , but god hath confusedly decreed that some there shall be who shall never fall away , and so sides with arminians and socinians . remonst . apol. non promittitur ecclesiā semper mansura● ecclesiam , sed tantum ecclesiam quâ ecclesia est , semper mansuram invictam à morte & condemnatione . socinus in miscelan . p. . quamdiu vera christi ecclesta fuerit , fieri non posse , ut ab ipsa morte atque inferno ( mat. . ) quidquam detrimenti patiatur . did. ruiz de mont . jesuita tom . de provid . tract . . disp . . sect . . num . , . plurimae sunt per quarum disjunctivam indeterminationē vagari potest infallibilitas & necessitas quae nullam illarum rerum determinat , sed tantum in confuso & universali numero . . necesse est ●…niant scandala , veruntamen vae homini per quem eveniunt scandala ! ubi christus dominus apertè significat necessitatem vagari per varias personas , & varia scandalorum genera indeterminatè ; nec enim necesse est , ut per hunc hominem fiat , nec ut hoc & non aliud scandalum fiat . porro haec necessitas non est sola & nuda indigentia mediorum ad finem , sed etiam infallibilis consecutio effectuum ex causis efficientibus ita dispositis . m. h. his exposition of mat. . . infers a great confusion in the decrees of god. mr. h. his distinction of necessity inferreth the uncertainty of a believers salvation , & destroyes his peace , joy , comfort , &c. it destroys the faith , consolations , promises and certainty of the number saved . notes for div a -e some certain officers not unofficed people are to be judges & porters under the n. testament . the lord hath given the keys to the catholick guides , as to the first & formal subject and to the catholick integral visible church , as to the object and end ; not to the independent congregation , at m. h. saith . pag. , . pag. ● m. cotton of the keys , c. . p. . the word ( church ) is not taken by m. h. according to the grammar of scripture . way of the churches of n. n. c. . sect . . pro. . p. , . i●… as unlawful to communicate in seals , and hearing pastoral preaching in another congregation than that which is proper to the member of an independent congregation , as to submit to their jurisdiction . page . all single congregations are complete onely in some respect , but differ not in nature & specie among themselves . the apostles mat. . , joh. , , . when they received power to preach and baptize , did represent all ordinary teachers to the end of the world , or then ordinary teachers want all calling . annot. of the english divines , mat. . . i le uphold you and your successors in the ministry at all times , without intermission . calvin . in locum . usque ad consummationem ] haec particula denotat non solis apostolis esse dictum , quia non in unam aetatem , &c. beza , alloquitur ecclesiam . mr. h. c. . pa. . page . . the catholick integral visible church which christ intendsto save , and the catholick integral invisible church are the same , and d●ffer but in accidents but m. h. his church catholick visible and invisible , in many persons , differ as elect & reprobate . m● . h. must side with arminians and socinians , who ●ach that god intends to save many who are never saved . remons . syn. do●drac . art. . p. , . remonstran . confes. c. . collatio hagiens . p. , . corvin . contr . tilen . p. , , , , . episcop . disp . . th. . that is false that mr. h. saith that the whole visible church , eph. . , , which christ intends to bring to glory , doth consist of good and bad . armin. resp. ad art . . p. armin. anti-perkins p. . remonst . syn. dordra . art. . . p. , . , remonst . conf . c. . sect . . cat●ches . ruttoviensis c. . pag . due ●ight of presb. c. . sect . . pag. , . pag. ● . ● . the catholick church congregational is a new fancy , void of the word and all reason & unthority of fathers , doctors , divines , &c. how the keys belong to the catholick visible integral church as to the object , and to the catholick ministry & officers as to the formal subject . the church that is one , cant. . is not a congregation in any sense that can meet in one place . ainsworth contradicts m. h. cant. . the congregation is not the complete spouse to which christ beareth an adequate relatiō of husband-love , as to his redeemed ones the place mat. . upon this rock will i build my church ; and , the gates of hell , &c. is torn and abused by mr. h. chrysost. hom . . matth. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hil. de tri. l. . aug. in joh. . tract . . christs act of building men upon the rock either absolute or conditional , cannot stand with mr. h. his new gloss of mat. . officers must be visible saints before they can be admitted . assembly at glasgow , . survey , par . . c. . p. , . the unofficed brethren are not by our divines those that have a decisive voice in councels . a new question between us and papists . mr. h. par . . c. . p. . the paths to these general councels have been so long disused that they are almost grown out of sight , & as he somtimes speaks in a like case , the high-wayes are unoccupied . pag. . by the space of . years after our saviour , there was not the name of an occumenick councel heard of in the world whittaker cont . . q. . c. . de concil . nostra vero sententi● est non solos praelatos habere jus definiendi in conciliis , sed homines quosvis idoneos ( non ait laicos ) eligi posse . willet synops. papis . cont . . gener . q. . p. . what an absurd saving is it — that the bishop is the onely pastor . the fathers of basil. who doubteth but the government of the church is committed to others than onely apostles ? prof. leyden in synops. purio . theolog. disp . . th . . verum tamen ab iis ( laicis pi●s ) in publica hac act one consilium & a bi●…ium potius quam suffragium requiritur . vid. th . ● . c●lvin l . inst. 〈◊〉 . . romano pontifici & ejus satellitibus totum deferunt . com. act. . v . plebis modestia h●nc colligitur , quod postquam apostolis ac reliquis doctoribus j●…m ge misit , nunc quoque subscribit corum decreto , pastorum tyranni● est excludere populum . b●…us loc . q. . jus — ecclesiis — conscio & comprobante grege . vid. q. . non exclusis l 〈◊〉 . &c. t●en . syntag. de concil . disp . . q. . p. , . qui solis episcopis sententiae dictionem . vindica●… , iis tum apostolici concilii , act. . . tum nicaeni & constantinopolitani primi authoritate refelluntur — neque negari potest quin de causa fidei ad omnes pertineat dicere qui prophetae sunt dono & vocatione , cor. , . see 〈◊〉 . theolog. christian. 〈◊〉 . . c. . piscat . loc . . the . on the contrary are the rhemist . on tim. . sect . . bellarm. de concil . lib. . c. . cornel. à lap. lorinus , act. . mr. cotton key . two sorts of representatives not considered by , mr. h. commissioners neither carry the peoples conscience to the synod , not does their commission give them a new office . par. . p. , . due right of presb. keys of the king d. c. . p. , . the whole body of al church guides is the first subject of the power of the keys in its latitude of that power , and the first subject of such a special power is a synod . a power synodical is but a part of the keys , and was not before a synod had being . inferior churches confer not properly a superior power to the churches , ●…y have a synodical power by the institution of god , act. . to define in councels is an act of officers . mr. dickson , expos. mat. . v. . doct . . par. i. p. , . ames . bellar. e●●rvat . to. . c. . an soli praelati majores , i. e. episcopi habent jus suffragii ordinariè , ex privilegio & consuetudine etiam cardinal . abbates . bellar. affirmat nos negamus . ames . to. . c. 〈◊〉 . th. . p. . si esset proprium episcoporum & pastorum , nihil prohibet quin possit cum alii , theologis praesertim ministris 〈◊〉 deo institutis communica●i . calv. act. . gu●lth . act. . . calv. sic non enim dicit lucas totam ecclesiam congregata● , sed eos qui doctrinae & judicio pollebant , & qui ex ●atione officii hujus causae legitimi e●●nt judices ; fieri quidem o●est , ut coram plebe habita su●ri● disputatio : sed ne ad tractandam causam vulgus promiscuè fuisse admissum putemus : lucas disertè apostol os & presbyteros nominat . gualther . ibid. homil . . non ita dominium & imperium sibi vindicarunt ( apostoli & seniores ) ut populum ab eorum cognitione excluderent ●ive arcerent , quae ex aequo ad totam ecclesiam pertinebant — in populo modestia est — quod veritati omnes libenter cederent ; haec gualther . bullinger . act. . . convenerunt apostoli ] palam hoc loco admonemur ad apostolicos viros pertinere rerum ad fidem quaestionem . bez● . act. . ● . multitudin is autem nomine intellige non totam ecclesiam utpote quaen●ndum esset tota advocat● , sed totum apostolorum & sensorum coetum , ut v. . — unde apparet quae sit yera legitimae & apostolicae synodi ratio , &c. how the whole body of apostles , evangelists , pastors , doctors , elders are the first immediate subject of the whole power of the keyes . m. h. survey , par . . c. . p. . way of the churches , c. . sect . . pro. . m. cotton keys . c. . p. . inferior courts may use the keys without any influence of a command from a general councel . though a general councel ●xist not , yet ●he use of the keys ceaseth not in inferior courts . hardly can a general councel excommunicate a national church . non-communion of churches , as our brethren use it , is not warrantable . see the paper of accommodation at the synod at westminster , anno . sept. . par. . c. . p. , . excommunication attaineth not its end alway ; ergo , is not lawful . m. h. so , nor doth the gospel ever attain its saving end ; ergo , it s not the gospel . mr. h. sorc●● upon mr. r. a proposition as a principle in terminis beyond gainsay , which was never in m. r. his mind nor book simpson , cent. . c. . the want of gen . councels through providential impediments proves not that they a●e not ordinances . english divin . on hos. . . diod. hos. . . iun. hos. . . nam ex quo israelitae in assyriā fuerunt deportati per shalmanasarem , id est , ab anno sexto ezekiae ad christū incarnatum fuerunt anni quasi sexcenti octoginta . partus com . ib. zanch ▪ com . ib. dissenting brethren in their reasons against synods , arg . p. . the same god that suits his providences to his institutions , would not have failed in what is the most soveraign remedy of all other , that it might have been existent in all ages , as we see his promise was to the jews , to keep their land when the males thrice a year went up to the general assembly at ierusalem . euseb. eccles. hist. l. . c. . bucolc . index . euseb. l. . c. . epiphan . cont . haer . tertul. de cor. milit . in apolo . cario , l. . monar . . how loose that is , that providences must suit with institutions . the catholick church excommunicates antecedently , when a particular church excommunicates : but the catholick church hath not , nor putteth forth a deliberate act of citing , accusing , condemning before the particular church act any . the comparisō of cutting off an infectious member from the whole catholick visible church , is strained by m. h. he who is excommunicate in one church is antecedently excommunicate in all . cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . excommunication by consequence is no excommunication at all . a strange exposition of that , he that heareth you heareth me ; which follows from mr. h. his way . mr. h. allows of private communions . page . page , . survey par . . c. . p. . ames medul . l. . c. . thes. . ecclesia igitur particularis respectu commanis illius naturae quae in omnibus particularibus ecclesiis reperitu , est species ecclesiae in genere , sed respectu ecclesiae catholicae , quae habet rationem integri , est totum ex aggregatione variorum membroru●●ingularium compositum , at que adeo respectu ipsorum est integrum . that there is a catholick integral militant church . arg. . arg. . arg. . arg. . pag. , . arg. . way of the church of n. 〈◊〉 . c : . sect . . p. , . mr. h. supposeth by no logick , that the same body of christ cannot be both invisible , and in another respect visible . what way m. r. puts visible in an equal latitude with mystical , what way not . calvin . b●za in loc . pareus . pet. martyr . nec corinthii cum ●ideles ( professione , non ethnici ) essent , dono linguarum indigebant . piscator . english divines . diodati in loc . estius in loc . cajetan . page . a congregation onely cannot be meant cor. . . but also the catholick integral militant church . pastors may exercise pastoral acts toward many whom they cannot censure or excommunicate . par. . p. , . though the rulers of one city cannot fixedly govern in another , yet it s not consequent , therefore a pastor cannot act as a pastor in divers churches . god hath not every way se●ted officers in his church , as the king hath placed underjudges in the state. let m. h. answer whether the major of norwich may lawfully do justice upon one of york , who is oppressed by his fellow-citizen of york , as the pastor of boston may tender the l. supper to of the congregation of hartford . here the parallel is broken , i judge . way of the churches of n. e. c . sect . . p. . mr. cotton of the keys , c. . p . m. h. survey . there is some call required for a pastor to put forth pastoral acts , but no new office , no new right of jurisdiction . the place . cor. . . god hath set in the church , is not meant of only mr. h. his congregational church . beza on cor. . . adeo 〈◊〉 , ecclesia tota nihil aliud sit quam unus christus ; quoniam videlicet , totum corpus mysticum à capite denominatur . calvin . locus plenus eximiae consolationis — ut christus nolit tantum in se , sed etiam in membris suis censeri & recognosci — vocat ecclesiam complementum illius , eph. . . pet. martyr . hoc corpus vivit spiritu christi , & hac de re praeclarum habemus fidei articulum quo ecclesiam catholicam confitemur . occumenius . ibid. ita christus multa quidem habet m●mbra ( nempe singulos fideles ) unum vero corpus — perfectum ergo catholicum . pareus in loc . minus videtur fieri posse , ut tam diversae sortis , na ionis , conditionis homines in unum corpus coeant , & tamen per unum spiritum christo omnes uniuntur : ut sit in tanta diversitate intima societas & communio sanctorum , ubi cunque locorum habit●nt . august . de unitat . eccles. c. . totus christus caput & corpus est — sponsus & sponsa duo in una carne . english divines , an. . all the faithful wheresoever they are , make but one whole body . you corinthians are not the whole body , but members only , neither all the members , but a part only . how absurdly our brethren say we are one body , cor. . . how many congregations make one organical body , and are organs and members of the same . cent. . euseb. eccles. histor. l. . c. . hieron . cato scrip. eccles. nazia . in laud. athana . histor. magd. cent. . socrat. l. . c. . ru●●in . l. . c. . theod. l. . c. . sozo . l. . c. . congregations in their eminent parts are organical parts of the catholick integral visible church . one congregation hath member-need of all the congregations ; 〈◊〉 , they are all one body ●…ble . euseb. l. . c. . socrat. l. . c. . parum abfuit , quin co●dunarentur . aug. de unit . eccles. sive cont . petilianum , t●m . . quaestio inter nos v●rsatur ubi sit ecclesia , utrum apud nos , an apud illos , quae utique una est , quam majores nostri catholicam nominarunt , ut ex ipso nomine ostenderent , quae per totum orbem est . optat. m●livit . adv . parmenianum donatist . l. . ecclesia est una — eam apud vos solos esse dixisti ; ergo ut in particula africae . calvin . instit. l. . c. . sect . . pet. mart. com. in reg. . disp. de schismate , pag. . one congregation is to suffer & rejoice with a fellow-feeling of membership at the weal and wee of all congregations on earth ; ergo , all the congregations on earth make one catholick integral visible body . arg. . eph. . , , . proves an integral catholick church visible . arg. . matth. , , , . proves a catholick integral church . arg. : in what sense our divines affirm or deny the church to be visible : the church which is catholick , in regard of time , and of all ages , and of places , and nations , is not visible , nor is it ever visible , i. e. conspicuously glorious before men , as learned mr. hudson . salmeron in matth. . ● cornel. à lap. dat ergo ipse indulgentiam defunctis , non per modum juridicae absolutionis , quia defuncti illi non sunt ampliùs subditi , sed per modum suffragii . bellarm. de purgato . l. . c. . justi defuncti sunt membra hujus corporis . bellarm. de purg . l. . c. . bellarm . de notis eccles. l. . c. . prima nota est , ipsum catholicae ecclesiae & christianorum nom●n . ibid. pacian . ad sympronian , dicit nomen catholicum convenire capiti principali , & trunco illius arboris , unde multi ●an●● va●… temporibus excinduntur . roder. de arri. to. . tract . de fide disp . . sec. . est catholica , hoc est , communis , universalis ; extendit enim se licèt diversis temporibus , ad totum mundū . ad. tanne . de fide , spe . disp . . q. . dub . . n. , . vincent . li●inen . tann●rus jesuita tom. . quod ubique , quod ab omnibus , quod semper — de universalitate temporum ad finem usque mundi , à primo sui exo●tu perpetuò — ps. . . ponam in seculum seculi semen ejus , & universalitatem locorum scripturae — ps. . dabo tibi gentes haereditatem tuam . alb. pighius hierarchiae ecclesiasticae , l. . c. . pag. . una & universalis , nullo certo loco , nulla regi●ne & patria , nulla gente , natione aut populo , nullo denique tempore conclusa , circumscripta aut determinata . whitaker de eccles. l. . ad duraeum , fol. . catholica ecclesia non modo nostrae aetatis finibus circumscribenda non est , sed ipsos quoque patriarchas , prophetas , apostolos , sanctosque omnes qui vel sunt , fuerunt , vel futuri sunt , complectitur ; haec ecclesia ex singulis horum temporum ecclesiis constans est visibilis● nihil minùs . anton. sedeel respons . ad fidei quam vocant professionem à monachis burdega lensibus factam , a● . . &c. ar. . pag. ● . si ecclesia catholica significat ve●os sideles & electos , qui fuerunt , qui sunt , quique futuri sunt , oportet istos monachos miro oculorum a cum●ne praeditos & perspicuitate , si cernere possint ecclesiam catholicam — necessariò igitur constituendum est discrimen inter ecclesiam catholicam & ecclesiam visibilem ; nam ecclesiae visibiles sunt particulares , ut erant apostolorum tempore ecclesiae corinthio●um , ephesiorum — in his solent esse hypocritae & reprobi non pertinentes ad hanc ecclesiam particularem . see d. willet . gene. contra. q. . par . . pag. . pareus in ursin. q. . art. . pag. . tilenus syntag. dis . . d. . thes. , . professo . leid . in synop. pur. theol. dis . . th . . partes hujus ecclesiae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 consideratae statuunt pontificii tres , unam laborantem in purgatorio , alteram triumphantem in coelis , tertiam militantem in terra , &c. th. , , . praes●…im th. , , , , , . conspicuity of glory is visibility . buc. loc . . q. . pag. . ratione adjunctorum cacholica ecclesia est invisibilis , quae vera tantum christi membra , seu electos — complectitur . id●i●●o vocatur invisibilis hominum tantùm respecta . quia vera fides , quae est differentia constitutiva ecclesiae ( fides vera in coetu non in uno homine ) & per quam ecclesia est id quod est , in corde sita est , & proinde invisibilis — & nisi à deo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , certò cognosi no● potest . a●to . walaeus magnus theologus tom. . locor . comm. de eccles. pag. . ecclesia invisibilis vocatur catholica , & comprehendit omnes ve●è ●ideles , qui per totum orbem terrarum dei oculis conspicui sunt ; vocatur verò invisibilis , quia universalitas fidelium nulli homini est conspicua . . quia fides & ipsa regeneratio quae est ●uj● ecclesiae 〈◊〉 , ab hominibus videri non potest . ursinus , quo non est major in theologo●um cho●● , catech. q. . ar. . ioan. piscator , loc . . de eccles. thes , , , , , . magnus colvin . instit. l. . c. . refertur ad omnes electos dei , in quorum 〈◊〉 sunt etiam qui morte defuncti sunt . sec. . coet●●ù ad amplexandsm eam unitatem nihil opus est ecclesiam ipsam oculis ce●…re , vel maribus palpare , quin po●i●● co quod in fide sita est , admonemur nihilominus cogitandam , dum intelligentiam nostram praeterit , quam si palam appareat , &c. lib. . c. . sect . , , &c. wind●linus christ. theo● . . c. . th. . pag. , luc. t●… pater loc . . art . . n. . quid sit catholica , pag. . froneisc . iunius . the. theo. disp . . th . . cumplectitur ergo haec ecclesia catholica omnes universè homines in coelo & in terra , qui fuerunt , sunt , & futuri sunt illius vocationis divinae & grat●o●ae participes , the. . cùm potior pars in coelis triumphans sit , à conspectu hominum remota sit , tota haec ecclesia visibiiis nobis esse non possit ; quinimo quaslibet particulares ecclesias ad eam paucitatem posse redigi , ut non sit aliqua christi vera visibilis ecclesia mundo in terris publicè nota , eam verò interdum externum suum splendorem amittere , hominum oculos latere — asserimus . chemnitius exam . conc. trident. c. . can . . pag. . catholicum vincentius lirinen . rectè definit , quod semper , quod ubique & ab omnibus similiter observatum fuit — neque enim caput à membris , hoc est , christum ab ecclesia , & principalia membra ; hoc est , apostolos cum sua doctrina & exemplis à reliquo corpore ecclesiae resecare debemus , quando de catholica seu universâ ecclesiâ lequimur . ioan. gerhardus tom . . de eccles. c. . num . . hujus catholicae ecclesiae caput est christus , membra omnes verè credentes , sive in coelis jam dum triumphent , sive in terris adhuc militent — hujus proprietates sunt , quòd sit sancta , quod invisibilis . hieron . zanchius , tom . . de ecces . c. . est fidelium coetus . c. . omnes particulares ecclesiae sunt una & eadem christi ecclesia . c. . ar . . sub hac universali visibili ecclesia continentur privatae & particulares , seu illius partes , &c. see turrianus in . de fid . spe . de eccles. disp . . dub . . disp . . dub . . dub . . roder. de arriag . to . sect . . sect . . bellar. to . . de eccles. mil. l. . c. . de pontisic . rom. l. . c. . phil. gamach . to . . disp . de indulg . c. . de protestate applicand : thesaurum ecclesiasti . gregor . de valent. in . tom . . de fid . spe . disp . . q. . de obj . fidei , p. . sect . . sect . . sect . . suarez . tom . de . fid . spe . disp . . sect . . n. , , . our divines deny popish visibility of 〈◊〉 catholick visible body under the pope , but not the visibility simply of the catholick church . ames . medulla theol. l. . c. . th. . ecclesia quae in terris agit , quamvis non sit tota simul visibilis , in suis tamen partibus est visibilis . of the catholick church , & the three scriptural acceptions of the word . august● de catech . c. . cives sunt omnes sanctificati homines qui fuerunt , & qui sunt , & qui futuri sunt . confess . of the assembly of divines at westminster , an. , , &c. c. . and the large catechism of that assembly , pag , . synopsis purio . theol. per. . . theo. professores in academia leydensi disp . . de eccles. pag. . pres . th . , . the catholick church is divers ways visible . our divines argument to prove that the catholick church is invisible , is not because faith is only believed , and not visible . august . de baptism . contra donatist . l. . c. . august . in psal. . fuilb . ans. to the rhemists , rev. . an. . cartwright ans. to rhemists , rev. . an. . beda hist. l. . c. . omnes ecclesiae per orbem unam ecclesiam faciunt . in what sense some of ours say the churches in the primitive times were congregational . see didoclavius i. e. mr. calderwood in altari damasc. de episcoporum gradibus , c. . p. , . item de episcopi potestate extensivâ . p. , item quod episcopus & presbyter sint ejusdē ordinis , p , , d. d. ro. bodius à trochoregia com. in eph. c. . v. . p. m. bains diocesian trial. euseb. hist. l. . ignat. epist. ad eph. eccle. tertull. in apol . mr. h. survey , par . . c. . con . . p. , . mr. r. his order of ordination before election hinders not ordination to give the essentials to the call of officers . see d. bilson , perpet . gover. c. . formal and complete election is later than ●●dination . cypr. l. r. ep. . alias . leo ep. . c. . calvin . acts . praescribunt autem apostoli quales deligi opo●reat — atque hoc inter tyrannidem & confusam licentiam est medium , ut nihil quidem agatur nisi ex consensu & approbatione plebis . gualth . in ioc . totius ecclesiae consensu & authoritate diaconi electi sunt . the people cannot choose a. b. to be their fixed pastor , until a. b. be first a pastor . m. lazar. seaman of ordination , arg . . diatribe , p. . stephan . in thesauro . mr. leigh in crit. sacr. in n. t. bals. & zonar . can. . apost . see calvin instit . l. . c. . sec. . beza an. in act. . . ames . bellarm. enerv. tom . . l. . p. , . non negamus paulum & barnabam suffcagia sua tulisse , sed solos illos negamus tulisse . the place tim. . . neglect not the gift that is in thee , &c. is opened , and m. h. his mistakes thereof removed . see bilson perpet . governm . c . pag. , . stephanus in concor . in voce 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . beza , an. act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pro 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . act. . , . didoclavius , da. calderwood . in altar . damasc. c. . pag. . ista phrasis ( donum presbyterii vel presbyteratus quod est in te ) durior erit . mr. h. can by no scripture warrant to us an eldership of one single congregation , as we can give a proofe of many , yea , a colledge of prophets , pastors , and elders of many congregations at the ordination of officers . menochius in loc . presbyt . majorum , i. e. episcoporum . bellarm. l. . de cler. c. . nobis verior videtur graecorum expositio , qui nomine presbyterii intelligunt chorum sive coetus presbyterorum , id est , episcoporum . ita & lyran. cajetan . com. in loc . manuum impositione ] ad significandum p●urium sacerdotum concursum . vatablus in loc . intelligit electionem qua à presbyteris , i. e. senioribus christianis timo●●aus est electus . maldonatus in manusc . citato à cor à lapide . notat per presbyterium ordinem sacerdotalem . cor. à lap. in loc . verba ( vatabli ) sapient haeresin . estius com. in loc . an soli episcopi , an etiam simplices presbyteri concurrant , &c. res. modum hunc ordinationis omnibus presbyteris esse communem constat ex can. . concilii carthaginensis . quod & palam significat synodius tridentina sess. . c. . vide bellarm. de cler. l. . c. . tilen . in paraenes . ad scotos . calderwod . altar . damasc. c. . p. . there is not a contradiction between a mediate and immediate call . park . de polit . eccles. l. . m gill●… . miscel . quaest . c. . page . surv. par . . c : . page . greg. tom. . disp . . q. . puncto . sect . . rob. baron . in appendic . tra . . de authorit . eccles. c. . par. . pag. . the relation 〈◊〉 a fixed pastor to his own single congregation , proves not at all , that their choice made him a pastor . keys of the kingdom , c. . pag. . amesius theo. medul . l. . c. . th . . par. . p. , it s bad logick , à genere ad speciem , imposition of hands is used in many other things : ergo , this imposition of hands is not necessary to ordination of officers . calvin . nulla hic electionis ab ecclesia mentio , quia vocatio prorsus divina erat . stapleton , in antidot . page . suarez . tom. . in . par disp . . sect . . non esse tune saulum , vel barnabam ordinatos , vel presbyteros , vel episcopos & impositionem manuum esse tantum deprecantium . calvin . in loc . solenni ecclesiae subscription● obsignari jubet . gual . in loc . consecrationis symbolum fuisse . so diodati . d. willet controv. gener . q. . august . de baptism . l. . c. . confess . bohem. c. . confess . wittenberg c. . book of discipl . of scotland , l. . c. . synops. pur . theol. disp . . th . . mr. seaman treats of ordination , page , ● . diodati . english divines annotations , [ separate me ] paul and barnabas to be held in equal degree , and intallible authority with the rest of the apostles . paul was not called to be an apostle , acts . nay , not until acts . that is the error of mr. robinson justific . of separar . page . survey , par . . c. . p. . mr. h. makes many pastors , many congregations , many preached christs and gospels and seals to be different in species & nature . this or this flock is extrinsecal to the essence & nature of a pastor ; yet is it naughty logick , ergo , the prelates do right , and the church ordinarily do lawfully create pastors without flocks . a synod of n. e ought to ordain so many pastors , lay hands on them , and pray and make them pastors to the americans , for planting churches there , so the americans profess their willingness to hear . a pastor is the only fixed and appropriated pastor of his own flock , so as he is a pastor to all congregations on earth where by divine providence he shall be . m. h. destroys the communion of churches as churches , & destroys his own & his brethrens principles . way of the churches of n. e. c. . sect . . p. . we admit members of other congregations to the lords supper with us , for we look at the lords supper not onely as a seal of our communion with the lord jesus , but also of communion with his members , and that not onely with the members of our own church , but of all the churches of the saints . a pastor as a pastor preaching to his own flock , may convert some of his own & of other congregations , & administer the lords supper to both . * way of the churches of ch. in n. e. c. . sec. . p. . mr. h. survey , pa. . c. . p. . what sort of preachers the scattered disciples , act. . were . 〈◊〉 gualth . in act. . homil . dioda . an. act. . . through grace ] this may have relation to apollos , who by his authentical ministery called grace , rom. . — did much advance the christian faith . calvin . com. in act. potens in scripturis ] docet hic locus , debere potentes eos esse in scripturis quibus docendum est in ecclesia . page . church-power is broader and larger than juridical power . pag. . mat. . . though one be a complete pastor to all churches actu primo , yet the call of god is necessary for the exercise thereof hic & nunc . pag. , . vvhoever hath a pastoral power to preach to the people , hath not a juridical power to censure them . pag , . mr. h. his logick is , we are to beware of false teachers , ergo , the congregation may depose their officers if ●eretical and scandalous . to be a pastor to all congregations , by mr. h. is most mistakingly made a genus , and for the same man to be a fixed pastor to he a species . to be a fixed pastor to this or that flock , is a meer accident , not a species or kind of a pastor , not to be a pastor habitu to all congregations , can be genus to such a pastor , as mr. h. saith . par. . p. , . presbyters may delegate messengers of the churches . see and beware of d. b●●son of perper . government , c. . pag. . he abuses both scripture and fathers . tilenus , jam deficiens paraenes . ad scotos , page . dunam . conc. in apoc. . beza in apo. . reynaldus lib. apocryph . praelect . . see tilen . syntag. disp . , ● . bucan . loc . . q. . professor . leydens . in synopsi purioris theologiae disp . . thes . jus pastoris eligendi est penes ecclesiam ( ausim dicere non marium solum ) ac proinde plebi commun● cùm presbyterio , jus ordinandi soli presbytetio proprium . cyprian . ep. . videmus de divinâ authoritate descendere , ut sacerdos , plebe praesente , sub omnium oculis deligatur , & dignus atque idoneus publico judicio ac test●monio comprobetur . mr. h. surv. pa. . c. . p. , . that these in whose power it is that any should rule over them , or no , from their voluntary subjection it is , that the party chosen hath right , & stands in possession of rule and authority over them , is most false , yet a principle to mr. h. yea , there is a voluntary subjection to the ministry sent in general , isa. . rom. . , . matth. . , , . act. . act. . . and to every ordinance of god in converts , act . . act. . , . matth. . , , &c. but it followeth not therefore such give a being to their ordinances . there is a difference between being a pastor , and being a fixed pastor to this people . page . what being ordination confers . see book of ecclesiastick discipline at geneva . m. dcxxx . page , . the specifick acts of calling men to the ministery ascribed to ministers , but never in scripture to unofficed brethren , prove our ordination . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . page . page , . par. . c. . pag. , , . page . there is an independent church in a family . surv. par . . . . conc. . page . augustine dreamed not that baptisme is only right administred in a single congregation , but in the catholick congregation , or church . contra donatistas de baptismate , l. . c. . non iis , itaque dicimus nolite dare ( baptisnium ) sed nolite in schismate dare — nec iis , quos videntur baptizaturi , dicimus , nolite accipere : sed nolite in schismate accipere — ubicunque ( vel in hae , vel in illa congregatione ) invenit ( baptismum ) non hominum , sed dei esse cognovit , &c. the nearest parents , while they are made the only conveyers of grace , the church covenant of men is preferred to the covenant of grace . ans. to the quest . ans . to the quest . p. , , . ans. to qu. to 〈◊〉 qu. p. , . in which they prevaricate . ans. to qu. p. , . ans. to . pag. , . ans. to . . . ans. to qu. . q. . p. , . the woful evils of making the nearest parent the only conveyer of covenant right to the childrē . see tostat. abulens . in exod. c. . in v. . gen. . & . the covenanted seed so often mentioned in scripture , must be onely the children of the nearest parent believing , the rest must be pagans . ans. to quest . . pag. . if you can give us a sufficient answer to take us off from that scripture , cor. . &c. the adequate cause of covenant-love from fathers to children is free grace . the covenant that the lord will be our god , must extend further than to the nearest seed . calvin . instit. l. . c . sect . . promissio de propagandâ in mille generationes dei misericordiâ , quae etiam frequenter in scripturis occurrit , & in solenni ecclesiae soedere inseri●ur , ero deus tuus , & feminis 〈◊〉 post ●e . perkins in com. ●●lv . ib. quia non perpetuam hic figere regulam voluit legislator , quae suae electioni . deroga●et . zanch. tom . . l. . de secundo praecepto , cap. . p. . unde etiam apparet , non esse verum , quod quidam ex hoc loco colligunt , nimirum ●orum parentum , qui à foedere exclusi sunt , propter suas , scilicet , iniquitates , & def ctionem à deo ) eorum etiam liberos exclusos esse ; pugnat hoc non solum cum aeterna electione , ut dictum est , sed etiam cum promissione facta , abrahae , . ero deus tuis , & seminis tui post te , in generationibus sempiternis promissio fit abrahae & semini ejus , ergo eorum qui à semine abrahae , nemo à foedere hoc excludebatur , etiamsi ex proximis parentibus impiis & idololatris natus esset ; ratio est , quia intermedii patentes impli continuationem foederis in liberis non impediebant — rom. . quid enim si quidam non crediderunt , &c. ps. . , , . heb. . . judg . . ezek. . . chron. . , , . mr. h. denies covenant right to baptism to infants , as anabaptists do , because they do not actually love & obey god. yea , infants of turks come to age , if they actually love & actually obey god , and by faith lay hold on his covenāt the lord extends mercy to them , i● . , , , thin infants have nothing by nearest or remote parents , but what they have without them . survey , par . . 〈◊〉 . . p. , . way of the churches of n. e. c. . sec. . p. . way of the churches , ib. c. . sect . . p. ● . mr. h. his exposition of the second command , overturns the gracious intent and sense of the lord in both threatning and promise . surv. par . . c. page . par. pag. . when , and how the posterity are cast off . par. . pag. . par. . c. . pag. . two new judicatures , one dogmatical , or official by the officers , another juridical by the male-church , must be an unwarrantable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 union or division among associate churches , say the associate churches , must make up one visible body . survey , par . . p. . par . . c. . p. , . reasons of the dissenting brethren , pag. , , . surv. par. . c. . p. . mr. h. his mistake as touching the burthens of the acts of synods , which is , that they tie the conscience only as the godly counsels of women tie men . m cotton of the keys , c. . p. . preface to the treatise of the keys . socin . contra gabr. ementropium , c. . p. . socin . res. . ad resp. andr. volam . nullis deinceps hominibus , &c. smalcius ref. lib. de error . aria . c. . p. . qui vult sensum scripturae ab illis peti , qui post apostolos vixerunt , dum hoc facit , tacitè deserit scripta apostolica , &c. epist. ad . th . disp . . th . disp . . th . . remonst . apol. c. . fol. ● . fol. , . armin. disp . . n. . paper , anno ● . s p. . the dissenting brethren of the famous synod at ●estm their judgement of synods and presbyteries . mr. baily in his vindicat . ann . . p. . if synods have no jurisdiction , heretical elders of a congregation ( as he solidly saith ) arrius , macedonius are safe from all censures to the worlds end . par. . p . . it is the law of nature that the part be ruled by the where in the general , & not in every particular . the division of a christian nation into provinces , territories & presbyteries , is neither a device of men simply , no● simply a divine institution , but a mixt ordinance . page , . par. p. . mr. h. his mistake of individual moral acts and the mixture in them . d. ames fresh suit against d. eurg●s . didoclavius altar . damasc. c. . p. , , . hieron . ep. ad aug. in epist. august . . bonum est continentia , malum est luxu : i● , inter utrumque indifferens ambulare , capitis naribus purgamenta projicere — scotus in dist . sen. . q. unic . thom. . par . q. . q. . art . . lombard . dist . . durand . l. . dist . . q. . not . . siactus sequatur rationem deliberatam , sic impossibile est aliquem actum esse indifferentem , sed necessariò quilibet est bonus vel malus moraliter — quia ordinatur ad finem debitum à ratione deliberatâ . gregor . de valent. tom. . disp . . q. . de bonit . & mali● . act . hum . puncto . omnis actio à deliberatâ ratione , ( non à sola imaginatione , ut cùm qu●s fricat barbam , ) p●ocedens , est individuo aut bonus , aut malus secundum circumstantias ; quia vel habet finem debitum , vel non debitum . mr. cotton keyes of the kingd . c. . p. . synods have more then power of counselling . absents from the synod are tied to obedience . page . it suits not with the wis dom of christ that no remedies should be for a scandalous church . what appeals we allow . the juridical power of synods is concluded from acts . and their church-way of rebuking , &c. of the samaritans , and their ●eligion , see tostat. abulen . in . reg. c. . qu. . ioan. wolph . com. in . regn. c . v. , , &c. pag. . the jewes deservedly excommunicate the samaritans . weemes christian synag . par . . diatr● . . origen . to. . in ioan. receperunt tantum , scilicer , libros mosis . epiphanius haer . . ioseph . an t . . c. ult . quando res iudaeorum erant prosperae , se iudaeos , alioqui assyrios se dicebant : iudaei convitium jactantes , samaritanum appellabant . ita hieronym . epist. ad algas . . . ioseph . l. . antiq . c. , religione corruptiss●… crant samaritae . carol. sigon . de rep. hebr. l. . c. . ex iosepho , ephraimitas praedicarunt se , iudaeis ab antiocho epiphane asflictis , samaritae perterriti , se non deum ( iudaeorum ) sed deos colere asseruerunt , nec se israelitas , sed s●doniosesse dixerunt , & templum ipsum iovi cretensi se dedicaturos esse professi sunt : atque ita praesentem armati b●gis iracundiam eluserunt . august . in iocum ioan. . omnino vasculis eorum iudaei non utuntur . the acting of apostles in things belonging to many churches , wi●h the churches concurrence , proveth that a synod hath church power . a synod acting some specifick acts of a governing church , may act all the rest of the acts of the church . peter acts . gives an account to the apostles . syrus . chrysostomus , valde offensi expostulabant . epiphanius haer . . beza , alter carunt . gualth . in loc . homil . . atque semper eam in ecclesia veteri consuetudinem fuisse cernimus , ut episcopi ab episcopis sese judicari & corrigi paterentur . calvin . ibid. sponte ecclesiae judicio se : submisit . lorinus , cornelius à lapide in loc . summus pontifex non imperiose refutat , — non dicit — vestrum est obedire , &c. act. . paul submits to a synod of elders . calvin . c. ● . colligere licet ex hoc loco , quoties tractandum erat serium negotium , seniores convenire folitos fuisse , &c. gualith . homil . . in ecclesia ordine certo opus esse — nihil enim privata authoritate agit , &c. lorinus , corn. à lap. in loc . surv. par . . p. . that proposition of mr. h. those whom pastors cannot judge , over them they have no pastoral power , is many wayes false . private men as private men , and as no pastors , are made by m. h. the only spreaders of the gospel to heathens . hieron . in verb. qui usque ad consummationem seculi se cum discipulis . futurum promittit , & illos . ostendit semper esse victuros , & se nunquam credentibus recessurum . chrys. in verb. ut ex omnibus gentibus ecclesiam , id est fideles & sanctos mihi congregetis . par. . c. . the essence of a pastor is not in their call & suit to whom he is sent . evangelists are now ceased as well as apostles . rich. hookers eccles. polit. l. . sect . . p. , . euseb. l. 〈◊〉 . c. . tilen . syntag. dis . . th . . apostolorum vice , ubi res poscebat , fungebantur . profess . leyd . in synops. purior . theol. dis . 〈◊〉 . thes . . p. . bucan . loc . com. . q. . calvin . com. eph. . apostolis proximi erant evangelistae , & munus affine habebant . bullinger . ib. in plebe potissimum e●udienda . zanch com. ib. apostolorum comites — non immediate mi●●● — sed assumebantur . d. ro. bodius à trochoregia com. eph. . p. . apostolorum comites modo huc , modo illuc missi , modo re vocati ab apostolis , extraordinarii . par. . pag. , , . the church of the jews was no more pe●…se , & kindely , but only accidentally a national church , then any kingdom under the n. t. is a national church . surv. par. . c. . p. . p. . arg . . the church was visible when there was no seal , neither circumcision ●o . 〈◊〉 . calvin . com. act. . v . interea commonefiunt judaei fuisse ecclesiam dei ( etiam nationalem ) alibi quam in terra in qua degebant , fuisse electos patres in populum peculiarem & sub fide tutelaque dei protectos , antequam staret templum , vel instituti essent externi legis ●…s , haec ad generalem cautionis scopum pertinent . gualth . in act. . homil . . in v. . ideo mortuos in aegypto ut constet illos in ●a religione diem ob●●sse quae nullis externis ceremoniis nitebatur , sed in sola fide , &c. to swear a covenát agreeth to all kingdoms coven●nted visibly with god , as well as to the church of the jews . a national church differs not in nature and essential causes from a national typical church . see m. robinson justif . of separat . p. , , . who widely argues the church of the jews being national , having one high priest , one altar , &c. being now done away , is not our rule . see pag. , , . ans. we argue from the nature of the jewish church in gene al as national in egypt , in the wilderness , as gods people in covenant as we & our seed are , before they had a temple & an altar , &c. yea , the synagogue worship was a sufficient church-worship , whatever m. robinson say , eusebius de vita constant. l. . reckons it to be an . . tom●s of the councels . hist. magd. cent . c. . theodoret. l. . c. . & alibi c. . c. . socrat. l. . c. . & . l. . c . & . sozom. . c. . l. . c. . l. . c. . ruffia . l. . c. . & , &c. l. . 〈◊〉 . . d. 〈◊〉 gen. controv. concerning councels , p. , . m. patr. symson , c●●● . . c. . review of the councel of t●●●t in prench , translated an . ● . by gen : 〈◊〉 . d. fulk ans. to the rhemists on n. t. act. . an. . an. . p. , , , , . t●o : cartwright his answer to the same rhemists , act. . an. , , , . p. , , , . whitaker de conciliis . our nationalcovenant is sworn by independent churches in single congregations apart . a national oath is lawful under the new testament . par. . pag. . see dan. chamier . in loc . com. l. . c. . pag. . in baptismo voveri deo. lombard . l. . dist . . com mune votum , quod in baptismo faciunt omnes . zanchius tom . l. r. in . praecept . thes . . th . . page , . th . , . et seq obligatio jurandi interdum oritur ex ipsa naturali lege ; ut reveletur veritas & lis finiatur , & glori●icetur deus , 〈◊〉 . . see deut. . . to fear god and swear by him are conjoyned . see sotus . l. . de justit . q. . art . . c. . suarez de relig. tom . 〈◊〉 . de juranient . l. c. 〈◊〉 . num . . pag. . suarez de religione tom . . tract . de votis l. . c. . pag. ● . num . lneptè votum numeratur inter hujusmodi legalia vota sunt antiquiora lege mosis , ut patet in voto iacob . gen. . — & gentiles naturali lumine voveban● , &c. chrysost. in cor. . praeceptum non ●abeo , &c. hieron . epist. , ad algasiam q. . votum ●●se p●…ssionem deo factam leg● naturae & gratiae consonam . par. . pag. . equal strength is not required in all that take an oath of a society . it said that a national covenant is typycal and judaical . mr h. never with his little finger aimed at any probation . . what if i say that a nation as israel avow the lord to be their god was typical ? then no nation , egypt , nor assyria can lawfully under the new testament avow him to be their god. national profession hath as good warrant for typicalness ( if any there be ) as national swearing . . national praying , national praysing , national flowing to hear , isa. . national worshipping , isa. . . mat. . . zech. . national joyning to christ , and conversion to him . national submitting to the lord , reigning in his ministry , and joyning to the true church , rev. . . psal. . . isa. . , , , &c. have all the like ground of typicalness with national covenanting : a vocal oath commanded mars all , saith mr. h. the rule , what binds particular men as covenanted professors , binds morally the nation . religion directs how we are to swear by the lord , swearing is not a worship ( as praying , which was in the state of innocency ) absolutely commanded , but only for truths cause to be cleared . suarez . tom. . de relig. de jus jur . l. . c. . n. pag. . and we see moral necessity of being the lords people , of reformation after back-sliding , deut. . , , . of putting ●●ay idols , of seeking the lord god , chron. . , . chron. . . . & . , . when sad judgments were on , , . and because of this , to wit , defection and bondage , they made a sure covenant , and wrote● , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nehem. . . no shadow there is of a type looking to christ or to the church under the gospel . par. . p. . the power that mr. h. gives to the civil magistrates in commanding the churches is undue . mr. h. par . . page . how the churches are above synods , how not . mr. h. survey . par . . c. . page , . par. . c. . p. mr. h. will have synods to determine contradictions of appeals , they prove not that synods may be refused . par. . c. . p. . m. h. gives the power of convocating & of chusing members of synods to the king only . of this see becanum in opuse . tom . . de primatu regis angliae . marc. anton. de dominis archiep. spalatens . tract . annex . l. . de rep. ecclesiast . qui inscrib . ostensio errorum francisci suarezii jes. in opuscul . lib. . quantum anglica secta à fide catholic . dissideat lib. . de forma juramenti fidelitatis . sacellan . in tortura torti . rob. abbots de suprem . potest . reg. contr . bellarm. & suarez . see gasp. scioppius in eccles. c. . p. , . c. . p. . qui tolerat hae . eticos , lupis cum ovibus commorandi potestatem facit . page , m. h. seems to say it appertains not to the magistrates to take order with thef●s , murthers , robberies done in private . the godly magistrate may compel . the bishops of france at desire sent to britain germanus and lupus from a synod , to drive away pelagianism out of britain , which they did . b●da eccle●●hist angl. l. . c. . & l. . c. . polonia , russia , lithuania , were commanded by rulers to be baptized , and quit idols . munster co●mograph . fol. ● . after scripture , the practise of ioshua , josh. . . of asa , chron. . , , &c. of iehoshaphat , chron. . of hezekiah , chron. . , . kings . . of iosiah , chron. . see aug. contr . liter . petilian . l. . c. . aug. contr . crescon . l. . c. . eusib. de vit . const. l. . c. . socr. l. . c. . theodoret. l. . c. . aug. contr . epist. parmen . l. . c. . commission & permission which rulers give are not all one , as mr h. saith . emmanuel sa in aphorismis suis. episcopus potest procedere contra quemcunque ob peccatū mortale , nisi essen jure permissum , ut meretricum . par. . p. . mr. h. makes the king the only lord and prince of the subjects faith and religion . see bilson christ. subj●ct , par . . p. . bils . chr. subject , par● . p. . that princes may prescribe what faith they list — is no part of our thought . see gas● . scioppius in ecclesiastico opposito authoritati serenis . r. iac. m. brit. c. , . try that . americani gladio materiali ecclesiae subjiciendi erant . see c. . forma juramenti ab elizabetha . ego a. b. prorsus testificor & declaro in conscientia mea , reginam solam esse supremam gubernatric●m & istius regni angliae , & aliorum omnium 〈◊〉 majestatis dominionum , & ●…ionum , non m●nus in omnibus spiritualibus atque ecclesiasticis rebus vel causis quam temporalibus ; & quod nemo , externus princeps vel persona , praelatus , status , vel potentatus , aut facto aut j●re , haber aliquam perestatem , supericritatem , pr●…nent 〈◊〉 , vel authoritatem eccl●siasticam ●●t spi●itualem in hoc regno ; ideoque planè 〈◊〉 ●…o & repudio omnes externas jurisdictiones , potestates , superiori●ates atque autho●… . proclamation by act of councel of k. charles i. ann . . to scotland , printed before the late book of common-prayer-our will is , & we charge you straitly and command , that incontinent these our letters seen , you pass , and in our name and authority command and charge all our subjects both ecclesiastick and civil , by open proclamation — to conform themselves to the said publick form of worship , which is the onely form which we ( having taken the counsel of our clergie ) think fit to be used in gods publick worship ; commanding all archbishops and bishops , and other presbyters and church-men , to take a special care that the same be duly obeyed and observed , and the contraveners condignly censured and punished . sacettanus in tortur . torti , pag. . rex britan. caput ecclesiae , reg. . nonne cum parvulus esses in oculis tuis caput factus es in tribibus israel ? book of canons obtruded upon the church of scotland , ann . . c. . & . m. h. surv. p. . c. . p. . gods people , who enter into church-covenant , should be free — m. h. his imperfect sense of toleration limited to the non permitting onely of open blasphemy and idolatry . remonst . apolog . preface , p. , . sect . . confessio seu declaration remonst . in praefat . eplse . dis . . th . , . omnes itaque ecclesiae , etiamsi in varlis doctrinae articulis perperam sentiant , tolerand●… . socin . com. . joh. theoph , nicolaides in refut . tract . de eccl. c. . how unjustly our brethren argue against a national oath from typicals . mr h. may as well seek an express warrant for a promissory oath in a private man , as in a nation in the new testament . surv. par . . c. . page ● . mr. h. great mistake in the matter of vows . general christians vows to moral duties of praying , praising , &c. are of eternal obligation , & so bind under the new testament . calvin . instit. l. . c. . sect . , . professor . leyden . in syno●purior . theol. dis . . de votis thes . , , . tylen . syntag. dis . . de tert : praecept . thes . , , , . bucan , . . q , . d. willet synop . papismi . . gen. contr . q. , , . durantus de ritibus eccles. cath. l. . c. . gabr. bicl . in can. missae . lect . . survey par . . c. . p. . how prince and people are to follow the judgment of the churches and ministry , & how not . survey par . . c . page . arg. . par. . c. . p. . the princes power over the locomotive power of subjects is a watery and feeble plea for his sole lawful power of convening of assemblies . the lord never gave a lawful power to command both things lawful , and things contradictory to lawful things . the princes duty to preserve peace & godliness makes him not lord of church-assemblies , and of religion . see bilson of perpet . gov. c. . pag. , . the lord of life hath principally in the first table laid a law upon our locomotive , and all our actings , to honour and love him first , and the prince onely secondarily and subordinately to god ; if god charge us first to go to publick meetings to honour him , the prince under pretence of peace cannot forbid the people to go up to ierusalem to worship ; we are to obey god rather then man. the princes power to convocate synods is cumulative , not privative to hinder them . the magistrate may not use what means he pleaseth , and domineer over assemblies to chuse members , and convocate them as a magistrate , to preserve godliness . histor. magdeburgen . cent. . c. . sozom. l. . c. : socrat. l. 〈◊〉 . c. : the emperors had not that power over assemblies , which mr. h. sayes . socrat. l. . c. . bulling , de concil . theod. l. . c. . socrat. l. . c. sozom. l. . c. . ruffin . l. . c. . socrat. l. 〈◊〉 . c. sozom. l. . c. the church is to give an account of their syned 〈◊〉 act●ng 〈◊〉 the prince , but this proves not , that the prince hath over the church any such headship as mr. hooker ascribeth to him . magdeb. cent . . l. c. . p. . ecclesiae ve : o●…tum externum ex bonis & ex malie omnibus temporibus esse mixtum apostoli tradunt , pag. . paulus in ecclesia romana etiam malos ( visibiliter ) mixtos ostendit , rom. . & in ecclesiâ corinthiacā plurima desiderat , sunt enim intereos contentiones — idololatrae , convitiatores , ebriosi , rapaces , cor. . incestuosus — litigant sub infidelibus , & damno afficiunt fratres : scortatores , avari , cor. . vescuntur idolothytis , cor. . & , &c. galatae à doctrina evangelii defecerant — fermentum inter eos alii alios devorant , &c. sio in●er thessalonicenses , thess. . & philippenses , . omnes quae sua sunt quaerunt , tim. . asiani omnes aversati sunt me , &c. magdeb. cen. . c. . p. . si quis p●ivatos hujus 〈◊〉 autores prespi●●at , ●●debit ●…m gubernation propemodum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 si●ilem f●●isse . singulae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…em habebant potestatem , verbum dei pur● docendi — excon●● 〈◊〉 — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…ligendi , vocandi , ●r●●nandi & just ●●ssimas ob causas iterum dep●… , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 s●●odo● conv●cand● , scholas instituendi & conservand● , in rebus d●b●●s & 〈◊〉 ve●…●…um sententias ●…ulandl , judicandi , decidendi : deinde vicin● ecclesiae vici●arum , charita●is & aedificationis studio non prop●er pr●matum aliquem , sed propte● manda●●m christi de●…aternâ dilectiene , tum in sua necessitate opem implorab●nt : tum vicissim earum curam gettbant & quasi inspectrices & adjutu●ces erant , ut verbum dei pure 〈◊〉 — ut vocarentur & ordinarentur p●● & erud●ti v●ri ad ministerium ecclesiae . e●… . ex apollinari● ait , l. 〈◊〉 . c. . nuper natas doct inas ( 〈◊〉 provinciales aut ple●●que doctores ) exami●abant , & prophanapron●●●abant haeresinque istam reprobantes , ecclesiâ ej●●iebant & excommun cab●… . magdeb. ce●● . . c. 〈◊〉 . p. ● . magdeb. cent . . 〈◊〉 . pag . certo ordi●● & ●●●●bus pr●fici eccle●●●● doctores & gubernatores ioan. apostolus à ●…bus roga●us vicinas ●…strat provincias , consti●●●as●bi à se ecclesias episcopis & ministris ornat . euseb. . c. ● . tertul. in apol. co mus in coetum & congregationem , ut ad deum quasi manu factâ precationibus ambiam●s orantes : haec vis deo grata est — ibid● etiam exhortationes , castigationes , & censura divina ; nam & judicatur magno cum pondere , ut apud certos de dei conspectu ; summumque futuri judicii praejudicium , si quis it a deliquerit , ut à communione orationis & conventus & omnis sancti commercii relegeru : praesident probati quique seniores , honorem istum non pretio , sed testimonio adepti . magdeb. cent. . c. . p. . ejusdem provinciae proximi quique episcopi manus imponebant . athan. iulius firmicus maternus l. ad imperat●res de abolendis idolo●at●iis ethnici● : quis locus in terra est , qui non christi nomen possederit 〈◊〉 quâ sol oritur , quâ occidit , quâ erigitur septentrio , quâ vergi● auster , ●ocum venerandi nu●…nis majestas implevit . basilius ep. . magdeb. cent . . c. . euseb. l. . c. . & . euseb. de vita constan. l. . cen. . c. & . theodoret. l. . c. . in urbe quae nostrum nomen complectitur , auxiliante salvatoris dei providentiâ , ingens hominum multitudo sese addixit ecclesiae : ita admod●● augescente omnium ibi numere , admodum dignum videtur , etiam ecclesias in eâ plures construi . niceph. l. . c. . euseb. l. . c. ult . imperat. caesar. galerius maxim●nus mo●bo fatall correptus , e●iam in hâc causa indulgentiam nostram extendendam sse putavimus , ut ruisus christiani sint , ac domos , ( templa ) in quibus convenerunt , sic denuò constituant , ut nihil contra disciplinam publicam faciant — deo suo supplicent pro salute nostra , pro r●p . proque seipsis . magdeb. cent . . c. . pag. . congregantur per singulas civitates ecclesiae , habentur synodi . aug. l. de un , baptis . c. . magdeb. cent . . c. . p. . quemadmodum sub finem superioris seculi caeperunt augeri coetus ecclesiastici — & operae presbyterorum in plura genera distribui , eo quod pauciores ●●s efficiendis non essent pares . magdeb. cent . c. . de politia eccles. p. . see the magdeb. vol. . cent . . c. . p. . et magdeb. vol. . cent . . cap . pag. . august . de fide ad peerum , cap. . nullatenus dub tes aream esse dei ecclesiam catholicam , & intra eam usque in finem seculi frumento paleas mixtas contineri — nec pro malis bonos deserendos , sed pro bonis malos , in quantum exigit fidei & charitatis ratio , tolerandos , id est , si vel in ecclesia nullius pe●fidiae semina spargunt , vel fratres ad aliquod malum opus mortifer â imitatione non ducunt — ut ad bonam vitam per dei misericordiam convertantur . sic in epist. petil. c. . l. de bapt. contr . donat. c. . prosp. de promis . & praedic . dei c. . esse a●eam . magdeb. voi . . cent . . c. 〈◊〉 . p. , . magdeb. vol. . cen . . c. . p. , , , , , , , . vol. . cen . . c. p. . euagrius l. . c. . ni●●ph . l. . c. . magdeb. cent . . c. . p. , . constantinopoli in suburbio fuit templū joan. baptistae , ut nicep . l. . c. ● justinianus imperaror incomparabile sophiae templum extruxit , & pretiosissimis lapillis , & aliis donariis auxit , restauravit etiam sanctorum . apostolorum , delubra struxit in usum vi●orum , soeminarum , puerorum , senum . cyriacus . episcopus constantinopolitanus ibidem mariae virgini sacellum posuit . vide euagrium . l. . c. . sic hierosolymis varia sunt templa , ut magdeb. cent . . c. . p. , . magdeb. cent . . c. . pag. . ro●na mu●t is templis e●orna●a fuit : in quae non tam ad cultum dei , quam ad superstitiones per●ge●●das conventum est . magdeb. cent . . c. . p. , . et cent . . c. p. , . magdeb. cent . . c. . pag. , . haymo in gal. . magdeburgens . vol. . cent . . c. . pag. . theoph. in matth. c. . ecclesia multos habet baptizatos , sicut in a●ea , omne quod cultum fuit in agro , &c. magdeburgen . cent . . c. . pag. . theophyl . in mat. . theophyl . in mat. . radulphus . l. . in levit. c. . l. . c. . in mat. . . ausbertus in cap. 〈◊〉 . apocalyps . anselmus in matth. c. . excommunicatio sieri debet per os ecclesiae , id est , per sacerdotem : sacerdote autem excommunicante , totum corpus ecclesiae operatur . magdeb. vol. . cent . . c. . p. , , vol. . cent . . c. . p. , . m●●debur . vol. 〈◊〉 . cent. ● . c. . page . . de eccles. a●● . ecclesiam christi esse , quae sincerum christi verbū audiat , & sacramentis ab ipso institutis utatur , ubicunque locorum ea existat . magdeburgens . vol. . cent. . l. . c. . p. . ex matth. . ecclesia est coetus veram christi notitiam habens , ●amque profi en● , ornatus potestate clavium regn● coelorum , pag. . prima ac praecipua nota ecclesiae est verbum sincerum , altera est verus usus sacramentorum & clavium ; te●●ia , est confessio ac perseverantia . a tertul. ad ver . hae●et . c. . p. . b turtul . pe pud●cit . c. . pag. . c tertul. adver . gnosticos c. p. . d epiph. adver . haer . l. . to . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . e epiph. adver . hae● . to . . l. . hae● . ● . sive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . f lactan. de vera sapien. l. . c. . p. . sola igitur catholica eccl●sia est , q●a verum cultum retinet , hic est sons verita●●● , hoc est domicilium fidei , hoc tempsum dei. g euseb. de praepar . evangel . l. . c. ● . 〈◊〉 . . g●●g . nazianz. ora. . in sanc. luc. p. . et 〈◊〉 an●● lanuginem 〈◊〉 doc●s , 〈◊〉 g●●●etra●●●nca una , nec denique nautam una navigatio facit . h k grego . nazianz . orat. . ad cla . episcop . before . bishops convened by theodosius the great , against macedonius . vide presbyterorum concilium , canitie & prudentia 〈◊〉 natorum , diaconorum mod●stiam atque ordinem — lectorum moderationem & conci●●itatem , plebis attentionem — omnibus supernum senatum honorantibus . i greg. nazianz. de compos●ta disserendi tatione . orat. . p. , . utique nec incedit oculus , sed dux est ; nec prospicit pes , sed progreditur , deque loco in locum movet ; nec lingua voces excipit , cum hoc sit auditus ; nec auditus loquitur , cum hoc sit linguae — nimirum imperat ac praesidet hoc ( membrum ) illud ducitur ac gubernatur . k theoph. in ena● . mat. . l theoph. mat. . . m theoph. enar . in joan. . n theoph. enar . . cor. . . o 〈◊〉 . origen● sive ety●… . l. . c. . p. . non 〈◊〉 conventicula ●…rum ●…tur , sed ●…tum orbem terrarum dilatata diffunditur . se● isid. : sent●nti●r . 〈◊〉 l. c. . p. m canon apostol . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . n concil . gen. par . . concil . nicae . p. . o nicae . conc. can . . p concil . gen . par . . tom . . c. ● p. . q conci . gen. ●om par . . conci . const. 〈◊〉 . art . ioh. 〈◊〉 . . page . si homo debitè fuerit contritus , omnis confessio exterior est superflua . r ibid. art . io. wicclif . nullus proelatus debet — aliq●em excommunicate , nisi sciat eum esse excommunicatum à deo. s b . p. . u mr. fox his monuments of the martyrs . tom . last councel of constance . k. henry the v. articles of iohn hush page , , &c. t concil . gen. . tom par . . conc . co●stan . ●ess . p. . universalis sancta ecclesia tantum est una , art . . io. hush . x theod. inter. in psal. . page . co . . y theodor. inter. in ephes. c. : page . z theodor. inter. in cor. . no● vos 〈◊〉 , sed omnes qui in universio orbe tertarum credidetunt . b ambrosius cor. . caput itaque in ecclesia apostolos posuit , quia legati christi sunt . c ambrosius in cor. . a quo crimine mali docto●es aut d●ssimulabant , aut negligentius argueb●nt , sicut & eli sacerdos , &c. d ambrosius , tom . : de natali sanct . apost . petri & pauli , ser. . l. . pag. e ephe. syrus , tom . . de sacerdotio , p. . f greg. nyss●nus in illa verba , tunc etiam ipse filius subjicietur , page . g greg. nyssen . ut petra vitae christus , &c. page . h hieronymus commentar . matth. . . et tibi dabo ] istum locum episcopi & presbyteri non intelligentes aliquid sibi de pharisaeorum assumunt supercilio , ut vel damnent innocentes , vel solvere se noxios arbitrentur , omnis credentium turba perveniat . hieyonym . ibid. i hieronymus com . in tit. . . ut constituas ] audiant episcopi qui habent constituendi presbyteros per urbes singulas perestatem , &c. ibid. idem est presbyter qui episcopus . k ruffin . in symbol . multi enim & alii ecclesias congregaverunt , ut marcion , & valentinus , & ebion , & manichaeus , & caeceri omnes haeretici , sed illae ecclesiae non sunt sine macuiâ & ●uga perfidiae . l chrysostom . in math. . hom . . . m chrysostom . ibid. n chrysostom . mat. . o chrysostom . lab . . homil . . quemadmodū enim rex praefectos mittens , ut in carcerem reos intrudant , & ut liberent , potestatem praebet , ita jesus discipulos dimittens , hac munit authoritate . p chrysostom . in act. c. . homil . . q athanasius unum esse christum , orat . pag. . tom . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . r athanas. tom . . contra omnes haereses , p. . s hilarius com. in mat. can . . pag. . t hilarius com . in mat. can . pag. . immobile severitatis apostolelicae judicium praemisit , &c. hi●… apostolicae conditione sententiae in coelis quoque aut soluti sunaut ligati . clemens ad corinth . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . scriptum aliud est impletum , edit , bibit , dilatatus est & incrassatus , & recalcit avit , hinc aemulatio , invidia , contentio , seditio , persecutio , commotio , bellum , captivitas . clem. p. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . clem. pag. , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . lib. . contra epist. parm. c. . non obest palea frumen●●s . aug. contr . ep. parmenia l. . c. . the priests should be holy that minister . aug. resp . dicant mihi , cui sancto secundum salutem spiritualē obsuerit , vel in sacerdotibus , vel inter populum coustituto , malus aut maculatus sacerdos ? ubi erat moses & aaron , ibi murmuratores sacrilegi , quos deus à facie sua semper perdere minabatus ; ubi erat caiaphas erant & caeteri tales , ibi zacharias , ibi simeon & caeteri boni . august . contr . liter . petil. l. . c. . august . contr . liter . petil. l. . c. . & . & . & . non enim ( c. . ) verba ista etiā ad simon . magum pertinent , qui tamē eundem sanctum baptismum suscepit , non sunt haec verba zizaniorum — non sunt verba paleae , sed tritici , quamvis eadem pluviâ simul nutriantur . a aug. contr . liter . petil. l. . c. . b aug. de unit . eccles. l. c. . & . c aug. de unit . eccles. c. . ne baptismus vel extra ecclesiam ire credatur , vel qui extra datus fuerit , acceptetur . d aug. de unit . eccles. c. . & . quid in prophetis quā multa , & quam manifesta sunt testimonia ecclesiae per omnes gentes toto orbe terrarum diffusae ? cap. . quare ( o donatistae ) vos irritum facitis testamentum dei , dicendo , nec in omnibus gentibus completum esse , & periisse jam de gentibus , in quibus erat semen abrahae ? e august . de unit . eccles. c. . f aug. de unit . eccles. c. . g aug. collat . cum donatist . . dia. c. . p. . h cypr. epist. . p. . i cypr. . , . k cypr. magno filio , epist. . p. . l cypr. . de unit . eccles. p. , . m cypr. lapsis , epist. . p. . the true nature of a gospel church and its government ... by the late pious and learned minister of the gospel, john owen ... owen, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing o estc r ocm this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) the true nature of a gospel church and its government ... by the late pious and learned minister of the gospel, john owen ... owen, john, - . [ ], p. printed for william marshall ..., london : . "the preface to the reader" signed: j.c. [i.e. isaac chauncey?]. errata: p. . advertisements: p. [ ]-[ ]. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. from t.p.) i. the subject matter of the church -- ii. the formal cause of a particular church -- iii. of the policy, rule or discipline of the church in general -- iv. the officers of the church -- v. the duty of pastors of churches -- vi. the office of teachers in the church -- vii. of the rule of the church, or of ruling elders -- viii. the nature of church polity or rule, with the duty of elders -- ix. of deacons -- x. of excommunication -- xi. of the communion of churches. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church polity. congregational churches -- discipline. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - jonathan blaney sampled and proofread - jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the true nature of a gospel church and its government : wherein these following particulars are distinctly handled . i. the subject matter of the church . ii. the formal cause of a particular church . iii. of the polity , rule or discipline of the church in general . iv. the officers of the church . v. the duty of pastors of churches . vi. the office of teachers in the church . vii . of the rule of the church , or of ruling elders . viii . the nature of church polity or rule , with the duty of elders . ix . of deacons . x. of excommunication . xi . of the communion of churches . the publishing whereof was mentioned by the author in his answer to the vnreasonableness of separation . by the late pious and learned minister of the gospel , john owen , . d. d. licensed , june . . london , printed for william marshall , at the bible in newgate street , mdclxxxix . the preface to the reader . the church of christ , according as it is represented unto us , or described by the holy spirit of god , in the old and new testament , hath but a twofold consideration , as catholick and mystical ; or as visible and organized in particular congregations . the catholick church is the whole mystical body of christ , consisting of all the elect which are purchased and redeemed by his blood , whether already called or uncalled , militant or triumphant ; and this is the church that god gave him to be head unto , which is his body and his fullness , and by union with him christ mystical , ephes. . , . and this is that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( the only word most fully expressing the catholick church , used in scripture ) the church of the first-born , whose names are written in heaven , heb. . . i. e. in the lamb's book of life , and shall all appear one day gathered together to their head , in the perfection and fullness of the new jerusalem-state ; where they will make a glorious church , not having spot or wrincle or any such thing ; but holy and without blemish . the day of grace which the saints have passed in the respective ages of the church was but the days of its espousals , wherein the bride hath made her self ready ; but then will be her full married state unto christ , then will be the perfection not only of every particular member of christ , but of the whole body of christ , called a perfect man , and the measure of the stature of the fullness of christ , to which we are called , edifying and building up , by the ministry and ordinances of christ , whilst we are in via , in our passage unto this country , a city with a more durable fixed foundation which we seek . in order therefore unto the compleating this great and mystical body , christ hath his particular visible churches and assemblies in this world , wherein he hath ordained ordinances , and appointed officers , for the glorious forementioned ends and purposes . there is no other sort of visible church of christ organized , the subject of the aforesaid institutions spoken of , but a particular church or congregation ( either in the old or new testament ) where all the members thereof do ordinarily meet together in one place to hold communion one with another , in some one or more great ordinances of christ. the first churches were oeconomick when the worship of god was solemnly performed in the large families of the antidiluvian and postdiluvian patriarchs , where , no doubt , all frequently assembled to the sacrifices as then offered , and other parts of worship then in use . after the descent of a numerous progeny from abraham's loins , god takes them to himself in one visible body , a national but congregational church , to which he forms them four hundred and thirty years after the promise in the wilderness ; and although all abraham's natural posterity , according to the external part of the promise made to him , were taken into visible church-fellowship , so that it became a national church ; yet it was such a national church always , in the wilderness , and in the holy land , as was congregational ; for it was but one congregation during the tabernacle , or temple-state , first or second ; they were always bound to assemble to the tabernacle , or temple , thrice at least every year ; hence the tabernacle was still called the tabernacle of the congregation . they were to have but one altar for burnt-offerings and sacrifices ; what others were at any time elsewhere called high-places , were condemned by god as sin. lastly , when christ had divorced this people , abolished their mosaical constitution , by breaking their staff of beauty and their staff of bonds , he erects his gospel church , calls in disciples by his ministry , forms them into a body , furnisheth them with officers and ordinances ; and after he had suffered , rose again , and continued here forty days ; in which time he frequently appeared to them , and acquainted them with his will , ascends unto his father , sends his spirit in a plentiful manner at pentecost , whereby most of them were furnished with all necessary miraculous gifts , to the promoting the glory and interest of christ among jews and gentiles . hence the whole evangelical ministry was first placed in the church of jerusalem ( so far as extraordinary , or such a part of it as was to descend to churches of after ages ) neither were they placed as abiding or standing officers in any other church as we find . in this church they acted as the elders thereof , and from this church they were , it 's very likely , solemnly sent by fasting and prayer to the exercise of their apostolick function , in preaching , healing and working miracles , gathering churches , and setling officers in them ; even so as barnabas and paul were sent forth by the church of antioch . their distinguishing apostolick office and charge ( from which the evangelist differed but little ) was to take care of all the churches , not to sit down as standing pastors to all , or any particular congregation , but at the first planting , to gather , to direct , and confirm them , in practice of their doctrine , fellowship , breaking bread , and in prayer . wherefore , this apostolick care committed to them proves nothing either of the catholick authority , claimed by an oecumenick pastor ; or that charge of many congregations , claimed by diocesan bishops . whence it 's most evident , that all church officers , so far as they had any pastoral or episcopal office , was given to a particular congregation , as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . we read of no pastors of many congregations , nor of no church made up of many congregations , to which officers were annexed , nor of any representative church , as some would have . that apostolick power did descend to successors we utterly deny , it being not derivable ; for none after them could say , they had been eye witnesses of our lord , before or after his resurrection ; none since so qualified by an extraordinary measure of the spirit for preaching and working miracles ; and none but the pope challenges such an extensive care for , and power over all churches . that which descends from them to the ordinary ministry , is a commission to preach and baptize ; and why not to head , it being always in the commission that christ gave , a pastoral relation , or presbytership which was included in their apostleship , and exercised toward the church of jerusalem . such presbyter-ship john and peter both had . hence there remains no other successors jure to the apostles , but ordinary pastors and teachers . these are relative officers , and are always in , and to some particular congregations ; we know of no catholick visible church that any pastors are ordained to . . the scripture speaks of no church as catholick visible . . the thing it self is but a chimaera of some men's brains ; it 's not in rerum naturâ ; for if a catholick visible church be all the churches that i see at a time , i am not capable of seeing much more than what can assemble in one place . and if it be meant of all the churches actually in being , how are they visible to me ? where can they be seen in one place ? i may as well call all the cities and corporations in the world the catholick visible city or corporation ; which all rational men would call nonsence . besides , if all organized churches could be got together , it 's not catholick in respect of saints militant , much less of triumphant ; for many are no church members that are christs members , and many visible members are no true members of christ jesus . where is any such church capable of communion in all ordinances in one place ? and the scripture speaks of no other organized visible church . again , to a catholick visible church constituted , should be a catholick visible pastor or pastors ; for as the church is , such is the pastor and officers ; to the mystical church christ is the mystical head and pastor ; he is called the chief bishop and shepherd of our souls , pet. . . hence the uncalled are his sheep , as john . . but to all visible churches christ hath appointed a visible pastor or pastors ; and where is the pastor of the catholick visible church ? he is not to be found , unless it please us to take him from rome . to say that all individual pastors are pastors to the catholick church , is either to say that they are invested with as much pastoral power and charge in one church as in another , and then they are indefinite pastors ; and therefore all pastors have mutual power in each others churches ; and so john may come into thomas his church , and exercise all parts of jurisdiction there , and thomas into john's ; or a minister to the catholick church hath an universal catholick power over the catholick church ; if so , the power and charge which every ordinary pastor hath , is apostolick . or , lastly , he is invested with an arbitrary power , at least , as to the taking up a particular charge where he pleaseth , with a non obstante to the suffrages of the people ; for if he hath an office whereby he is equally and indisputably related to all churches , it 's at his liberty , by virtue of this office , to take where he pleaseth . but every church-officer , under christ , is a visible relate , and the correlate must be such , whence the church must be visible to which he is an officer . it 's absurd to say a man is a visible husband to an invisible wife , the relate and correlate must be ejusdem naturae . it 's true , christ is related to the church as mystical head , but it 's in respect of the church in its mystical nature , for christ hath substituted no mystical officers in his church . there is a great deal of difference between the mystical and external visible church , though the latter is founded upon it , and for the sake of it . it 's founded upon it as taking its true spiritual original from it , deriving vital spirits from it by a mystical vnion to , and communion with christ and his members ; and it 's for the sake of it , all external visible assemblies , ministers , ordinances are for the sake of the mystical body of christ , for calling in the elect , and the edifying of them to that full measure of stature they are designed unto . but the different consideration lies in these things , . that the mystical church doth never fail , neither is diminished by any shocks of temptation or suffering , that in their visible profession any of them undergo , whereas visible churches are often broken , scattered , yea unchurched , and many members fail of the grace of god by final apostasy . likewise christ's mystical church is many times preserved in that state only , or mostly , when christ hath not a visible organized church according to institution to be found on the face of the earth , so it was with his church often under the old testament-dispensation , as in aegypt , in the days of the judges when the ark was carried away by the philistins , in the days of manasseh , and other wicked kings , and especially in babylon . in such times the faithful ones were preserved without the true sacrifices , the teaching priest , and the law. so hath it been in the days of the new testament , in divers places ; under the draconick heathen persecutions , and afterward in the wilderness-state of the church , under the anti-christian vsurpations , and false worship . which mystical state is the place prepared of god to hide the seed of the woman in , from the dragons rage , for the space of one thousand two hundred and sixty days . again , vnto this mystical church is only essentially necessary , a mystical vnion unto the lord jesus christ , by the gift of the father , acceptation , and covenant-undertaking of the son , the powerful and efficacious work of the spirit of the father , and the son , working true saving faith in the lord jesus christ , and sincere love to him and all his true members . whereby as they have a firm and unshaken vnion , so they have a spiritual communion , though without those desirable enjoyments of external church privileges , and means of grace , which they are providentially often hindred from . visible churches being but christ's tents and tabernacles , which he sometimes setteth up , and sometimes takes down and removes at his pleasure , as he sees best for his glory in the world. but of these he hath a special regard as to their foundadation , matter , constitution and order , he gives forth an exact pattern from mount zion , as of that typical tabernacle from mount sinai of old. the foundation part of a visible church is the credible profession of faith and holiness , wherein the lord jesus christ is the corner stone , eph. ij . . matth. xvi . . this profession is the foundation , but not the church it self . it 's not articles of faith , or profession of them in particular individual persons that make an organized visible church . we are the houshold of faith built upon the foundation , &c. . it 's men and women , not doctrine , that are the matter of a church ; and these professing the faith , and practising holiness . the members of churches are always called in the new testament saints , faithful , believers : they was such that were added to the churches ; neither is every believer so as such , but as a professing believer , for a man must appear to be fit matter of a visible church before he can challenge church privileges , or they can be allowed him . . it 's not many professing believers that make a particular church . for though they are fit matter for a church , yet they have not the form of a church , without a mutual agreement and combination ( explicite or at least , implicite ) whereby they become , by vertue of christs charter , a spiritual corporation , and are called a city , houshold , house , being united together by joints and bonds , not only by internal bonds of the spirit , but external ; the bonds of vnion must be visible as the house is , by profession . this is a society that christ hath given power to , to choose a pastor , and other officers of christ's institution , and enjoy all ordinances : the words sacrament and prayer as christ hath appointed . hence a visible church must needs be a separate congregation ; separation is a proper and inseparable adjunct thereof ; the apostle speaks of church membership , cor. vi . . be not unequally yoked together [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yoked with those of another kind , the plowing with an ox and ass together , being forbidden under the law ] with vnbelievers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i. e. visible vnbelievers of any sort or kind ; for what participation , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hath righteousness with vnrighteousness ? what 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , communion or fellowship hath light with darkness ? vers. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what harmony hath christ with belial , men of corrupt lives and conversation , or what part , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , hath a believer , i. e. a visible believer with an vnbeliever ? it ought not to be rendred infidel ; but it was done by our translaters , to put a blind upon this place , as to its true intention , and to countenance parish communion ; for why did they not here , vers. . and every where else render , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an infidel ? vers. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , what consistency hath the temple of god ( i. e. the gospel church ) with idols ? &c. i take this place to be a full proof of what is before spoken , that a gospel church is a company of faithful professing people , walking together by mutual consent , or confederation to the lord jesus christ and one to another , in subjection to and practice of all his gospel-precepts and commands , whereby they are separate from all persons and things manifestly contrary or disagreeing thereunto . hence ▪ as it's separate from all such impurities that are without , so christ hath furnished it with sufficient power and means to keep it self pure ; and therefore hath provided ordinances and ministers for that end and purpose ; for the great end of church-edification cannot be obtained without purity be also maintained in doctrine and fellowship . purity cannot be maintained without order ; a disorderly society will corrupt within it self ; for by disorder it 's divided , by divisions the joints and bands are broken , not only of love and affection , but of visible conjunction ; so that roots of bitterness , and sensual separation arising , many are defiled . it 's true , there may be a kind of peace and agreement in a society that is a stranger to gospel-order , when men agree together , to walk according to a false rule , or in a supine and negligent observation of the true rule . there may be a common connivance at each one to walk as he list , but this is not order but disorder by consent : besides a church may , for the most part , walk in order , when there is breaches and divisions . some do agree to walk according to the rule , when others will deviate from it . it 's orderly to endeavour to reduce those that walk not orderly ; though such just vndertakings seem sometimes grounds of disturbance , and causes of convulsion in the whole body , threatning even its breaking in pieces ; but yet this must be done to preserve the whole . the word translated order , colos. ij . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is a military word ; it 's the order of souldiers in a band , keeping rank and file , where every one keeps his place , follows his leader , observes the word of command , and his right-hand man. hence the apostle joys to see their close order , and stedfastness in the faith , their firmness , valour , and resolution in fighting the good fight of faith , and the order in so doing ; not only in watching as single professors , but in marching orderly together as an army with banners . there is nothing more comly than a church walking in order when every one keeps his place , knows and practiseth his duty according to the rule , each submitting to the other in the performance of duty . when the elders know their places , and the people theirs . christ hath been more faithful than moses , and therefore hath not left his churches without sufficient rules to walk by . that order may be in a church of christ , the rules of the gospel must be known , and that by officers and people . they that are altogether ignorant of the rule , or negligent in attending it , or doubtful , and therefore always contending about it , will never walk according to it . hence it 's the great duty of ministers to study order well , and acquaint the people with it . it 's greatly to be bewailed , that so few divines bend their studies that way . they content themselves only with studying and preaching the truths that concern faith in the lord jesus , and the meer moral part of holiness ; but as to gospel-churches or instituted worship , they generally in their doctrine and practice let it alone , and administer sacraments as indefinitely as they preach ; care not to stand related to one people more than another , any further than maintained by them . likewise many good people are as great strangers to gospel churches and order , and as their ministers have a great adversness to both , and look upon it as schism and faction ; and this is the great reason of the readiness of both to comply with rules of men for making churches , canons established by humane laws , being carried away ( if they would speak the truth ) by corrupt erastian principles , that christ hath left the church to be altogether guided and governed by laws of magistratick sanction . reformation from the gross idolatrous part of antichristianism was engaged in with some heroick courage and resolution , but the coldness and indifference of protestants to any further progress , almost ever since is not a little to be lamented . many think it enough that the foundation of the house is laid in purity of doctrine , ( and it 's well if that were not rather written in the books than preached in pulpits at this day ) but how little do they care to set their hands to building the house . sure a great matter is from that spiritual sloathfulness that many are fallen under , as likewise being ready to sink under the great discouragements laid before them by the adversaries of judah , when they find the children of the spiritual captivity are about to build a gospel church unto the lord. and how long hath this great work ceased ? and will the lord's ministers and people yet say , the time is not come , the time that the lord's house should be built ? is it time to build our own houses , and not the house of the lord ? surely it 's time to build , for we understand by books the number of years whereof the word of the lord came to daniel the prophet , and to john the beloved disciple and new testament prophet , that he would accomplish . years in the desolation of our jerusalem , and the court which is without the temple , viz. the generality of visible professors , and the external part of worship , which hath been so long trod down by gentilism ; wherefore consider your ways , go up to the mountain , and bring wood , build the house , saith the lord , and i will take pleasure in it , ( hag. i. . ) and i will be glorified . men , it may be , have thought they have got , or , at least , saved by not troubling themselves with the care , charge , and trouble of gathering churches , and walking in gospel order ; but god saith , ye looked for much and lo it came to little , and when ye brought it home i did blow upon it . why , saith the lord , because of my house that is waste , and ye run every man to his own house . i doubt not but the time is nigh at hand that the gospel-temple must be built with greater splendor and glory than ever soloman's or zerubbabel's was ; and though it seems to be a great mountain of difficulties , yet it shall become a plain before him that is exalted far above all principalities and powers , and as he hath laid the foundation thereof in the oppressed state of his people , so his hands shall finish it , and bring forth the head-stone thereof with shouting in the new jerusalem-state , crying , now grace , grace , but then glory , glory to it . this hastening glory we should endeavour to meet , and fetch in by earnest prayers and faithful endeavours , to promote the great work of our day . the pattern is of late years given forth with much clearness , by models , such as god hath set up in this latter age in the wilderness , and sheltered by cloud and smoke by day , and the shining of a flaming fire by night ; for upon all its glory hath been a defence , yea , and it hath been a tabernacle for a shadow in the day time from the heat , and for a place of refuge and covert from the storm and from the rain . neither have we been left to act by the examples or traditions of men , we have had a full manifestation of the revealed mind and will of christ , with the greatest evidence and conviction ; god having in these latter times raised up many most eminent instruments for direction and encouragement unto his people , which he furnished accordingly with great qualifications to this end and purpose , that the true original , nature , institution and order of evangelical churches might be known , distinguished , prized and adhered to , by all that know the name of christ , and would be followers of him as his disciples , in obedience to all his revealed mind and will. amongst which faithful and renowned servants of christ , the late author of this most useful and practical treatise , hath approved himself to be one of the chief . i need say nothing of his stedfast piety , universal learning , indefatigable labours in incessant vindication of the doctrines of the gospel ( of greatest weight ) against all opposition made thereto , by men of corrupt minds . his surviving works will always be bespeaking his honourable remembrance , amongst all impartial lovers of the truth . they that were acquainted with him , knew how much the state and standing of the churches of christ , under the late sufferings and strugglings for reformation , was laid to heart by him . and therefore how he put forth his utmost strength to assist , aid , comfort and support the sinking spirits of the poor saints and people of god , even wearied out with long and repeated persecutions . it is to be observed , that this ensuing treatise was occasioned by one of the last and most vigorous assaults made upon separate and congregational-churches , by a pen dipt in the gall of that persecuting spirit , under which god's people groaned throughout this land. he then wrote an elaborate account of evangelical churches , their original , institution , &c. with a vindication of them from the charges laid in against them , by the author of the unreasonableness of separation ▪ this he lived to print , and promised to handle the subject more particularly , which is here performed . he lived to finish it under his great bodily infirmities ; whereby he saw himself hastening to the end of his race ; yet so great was his love to christ , that whilst he had life and breath he drew not back his hand from his service . this work he finished ( with others ) through the gracious support and assistance of divine power , and corrected the copy before his departure . so that , reader , thou maist be assured , that what thou hast here , was his , ( errata's of the press only excepted ) and likewise that it ought to be esteemed as his legacy to the church of christ , being a great part of his dying labours ; and therefore it 's most uncharitable to suppose , that the things here wrote , were penned with any other design , than to advance the glory and interest of christ in the world ; and that they were not matters of great weight on his own spirit . and upon the perusal that i have had of these papers , i cannot but recommend them to all diligent enquirers after the true nature , way , order and practice of evangelical churches , as a true and faithful account , according to what vnderstanding the professors thereof , for the most part have had and practised . who ever is otherwise minded , he hath the liberty of his own light and conscience . lastly , whereas many serious professors of the faith of the lord jesus ( it may be ) well grounded in the main saving truths of the gospel , are yet much to seek of these necessary truths , for want of good information therein , and therefore walk not up to all the revealed mind of christ , as they sincerely desire . let such , with unprejudiced minds , read , and consider what is here offered to them , and receive nothing upon humane authority ; follow no man in judgment or practice any further than he is a follower of christ. and this is all the request of him that is a lover of all them that love the lord jesus christ. j. c. there is lately published , by the same author , a treatise of the dominion of sin and grace . wherein sin 's reign is discovered , in whom it is , and in whom it is not : how the law supports it , and how grace delivers from it , by setting up its dominion in the heart . price bound s. the author also ushered into the world , by his preface , another very useful book , entituled , the best treasure : or , the way to be truly rich. being a discourse on ephes. iij. . wherein is opened and commended to saints and sinners , the personal and purchased riches of christ , as the best treasure to be preserved and ensured by all that would be happy here and hereafter . by bartholomew ashwood , late minister of the gospel . price bound s . d . another book of the same authors , entituled , the heavenly trade ; or the best merchandize , the only way to live well in impoverishing times . a discourse occasioned from the decay of earthly trades , and visible waste of practical piety , in the day we live in . offering arguments and counsels to all , towards a speedy revival of dying godliness ; and timely prevention of the dangerous issues thereof hanging over us . very necessary for all families . price s. d. some other books printed for and sold by william marshal . caryl's exposition on the whole book of job . in two volumes in folio . pool's synopsis criticorum . in v. volumes . latin. — 's synopsis on the new testament . in two large volumes , in latin , with the index , are to be sold very cheap . in quires both volumes for s , and both vol. well bound for s. pool's annotations in english. two volumes . index's to the old and new testament to be sold alone . price s. dr. owen on the hebrews . in four volumes . owen on the spirit . clark's martyrology . mellificium chirurgiae , or the marrow of chirurgery . an anatomical treatise . institutions of physick , with hippocrates's aphorisms largely commented upon . the marrow of physick , shewing the causes , signs and cures of most diseases incident to humane bodies . choice experienced receipts for the cure of several distempers . the fourth edition , enlarged withm any additions , and purged from many faults that escaped in the former impressions . illustrated with twelve copper cuts . by james cooke of warwick , practitioner in physick and chirurgery . there is also a very useful book of the same authors , for those that are desirous of being their own physicians , entituled , select observations of english bodies , of eminent persons , in desperate diseases . to which is now added an hundred rich counsels and advices for several honourable persons . with all the several medicines and methods by which the several cures were effected . with directions about drinking the bath water . price bound s. d. clarkson's primitive episcopacy . octavo . price bound , s. d. owen of justification . — 's brief and impartial account of the nature of the protestant religion . the true nature of a gospel church and its government . chap. i. the subject matter of the church . the church may be considered either as unto its essence , constitution and being ; or as unto its power and order , when it is organized . as unto its essence and being , its constituent parts are its matter and form. these we must enquire into . by the matter of the church , we understand the persons whereof the church doth consist , with their qualifications : and by its form , the reason , cause and way of that kind of relation among them , which gives them the being of a church , and therewithal an interest in all that belongs unto a church , either privilege , or power , as such . our first enquiry being concerning what sort of persons our lord jesus christ requireth and admitteth to be the visible subjects of his kingdom , we are to be regulated in our determination by respect unto his honour , glory , and the holiness of his rule . to reckon such persons to be subjects of christ , members of his body , such as he requires and owns , ( for others are not so ) who would not be tolerated , at least not approved , in a well governed kingdom or commonwealth of the world , is highly dishonourable unto him . but it is so come to pass ; that let men be never so notoriously and flagitiously wicked , until they become pests of the earth , yet are they esteemed to belong to the church of christ. and not only so , but it is thought little less than schism to forbid them the communion of the church in all its sacred privileges . howbeit , the scripture doth in general represent the kingdom or church of christ , to consist of persons called saints , separated from the world , with many other things of an alike nature , as we shall see immediately . and if the honour of christ were of such weight with us as it ought to be ; if we understood aright the nature and ends of his kingdom , and that the peculiar glory of it , above all the kingdoms in the world , consists in the holiness of its subjects , such an holiness as the world in its wisdom knoweth not , we would duly consider whom we avow to belong thereunto . those who know ought of these things , will not profess that persons openly profane , vicious , sensual , wicked and ignorant , are approved and owned of christ as the subjects of his kingdom , or that it is his will that we should receive them into the communion of the church . but an old opinion of the unlawfulness of separation from a church , on the account of the mixture of wicked men in it , is made a scare-crow to frighten men from attempting the reformation of the greatest evils , and a covert for the composing churches of such members only . some things therefore are to be premised unto what shall be offered unto the right stating of this enquiry : as , . that if there be no more required of any as unto personal qualifications in a visible uncontroulable profession , to constitute them subjects of christs kingdom , and members of his church , but what is required by the most righteous and severe laws of men to constitute a good subject or citizen , the distinction between his visible kingdom and the kingdoms of the world , as unto the principal causes of it , is utterly lost . now all negative qualifications , as that men are not oppressors , drunkards , revilers , swearers , adulterers , &c. are required hereunto . but yet it is so fallen out , that generally more is required to constitute such a citizen as shall represent the righteous laws he liveth under , than to constitute a member of the church of christ. . that whereas regeneration is expresly required in the gospel , to give a right and privilege unto an entrance into the church or kingdom of christ , whereby that kingdom of his is distinguished from all other kingdoms in and of the world , unto an interest wherein never any such thing was required ; it must of necessity be something better , more excellent and sublime than any thing the laws and polities of men pretend unto or prescribe . wherefore it cannot consist in any outward rites , easie to be observed by the worst and vilest of men ; besides the scripture gives us a description of it , in opposition unto its consisting in any such rite , pet. . . and many things required unto good citizens , are far better than the meer observation of such a rite . of this regeneration baptism is the symbol , the sign , expression and representation . wherefore unto those who are in a due manner partakers of it , it giveth all the external rights and privileges which belong unto them that are regenerate , until they come unto such seasons , wherein the personal performance of those duties whereon the continuation of the estate of visible regeneration doth depend , is required of them . herein if they fail , they lose all privilege and benefit by their baptism . so speaks the apostle in the case of circumcision under the law , rom. . . for circumcision verily profiteth , if thou keep the law ; but if thou be a breaker of the law , thy circumcision is made uncircumcision . it is so in the case of baptism . verily it profiteth , if a man stand unto the terms of the covenant which is tendered therein between god and his soul ; for it will give him right unto all the outward privileges of a regenerate state ; but if he do not , as in the sight of god his baptism is no baptism , as unto the real communication of grace and acceptance with him ; so in the sight of the church , it is no baptism , as unto a participation of the external rights and privileges of a regenerate state. . god alone is judge concerning this regeneration , as unto its internal , real principle and state in the souls of men , whereon the participation of all the spiritual advantages of the covenant of grace doth depend : the church is judge of its evidences and fruits in their external demonstration , as unto a participation of the outward privileges of a regenerate state , and no farther . and we shall hereon briefly declare what belongs unto the forming of a right judgment herein , and who are to be esteemed fit members of any gospel church-state , or have a right so to be . . such as from whom we are obliged to withdraw or withhold communion , can be no part of the matter constitūent of a church , or are not meet members for the first constitution of it . but such are all habitual sinners ; those who having prevalent habits and inclinations unto sins of any kind unmortified , do walk according unto them . such are profane swearers , drunkards , fornicators , covetous , oppressors , and the like , who shall not inherit the kingdom of god. cor. . , , . phil. . , . thess. . . tim. . . as a man living and dying in any known sin , that is habitually , without repentance cannot be saved ; so a man known to live in sin , cannot regularly be received into any church . to compose churches of habitual sinners , and that either as unto sins of commission , or sins of omission , is not to erect temples of christ , but chapels unto the devil . . such as being in the fellowship of the church , are to be admonished of any scandalous sin , which if they repent not of , they are to be cast out of the church , are not meet members for the original constitution of a church . this is the state of them who abide obstinate in any known sin , whereby they have given offence unto others , without a professed repentance thereof , although they have not lived in it habitually . . they are to be such as visibly answer the description given of gospel churches in the scripture , so as the titles assigned therein unto the members of such churches , may on good grounds be appropriated unto them . to compose churches of such persons as do not visibly answer the character given of what they were of old , and what they were always to be by virtue of the law of christ or gospel-constitution , is not church edification but destruction . and those who look on the things spoken of all church members of old , as that they were saints by calling , lively stones in the house of god , justified and sanctified , separate from the world , &c. as those which were in them , and did indeed belong unto them , but even deride the necessity of the same things in present church members , or the application of them unto those who are so , are themselves no small part of that woful degeneracy which christian religion is fallen under . let it then be considered what is spoken of the church of the jews in their dedication unto god , as unto their typical holiness , with the application of it unto christian churches in real holiness , pet. . , . with the description given of them constantly in the scripture , as faithful , holy , believing , as the house of god , as his temple wherein he dwells by his spirit , as the body of christ united and compacted by the communication of the spirit unto them ; as also what is said concerning their ways , walkings and duties ; and it will be uncontrolably evident of what sort our church members ought to be ; nor are those of any other sort able to discharge the duties which are incumbent on all church members , nor to use the privileges they are intrusted withal . wherefore , i say , to suppose churches regularly to consist of such persons for the greater part of them , as no way answer the description given of church members in their original institution , nor capable to discharge the duties prescribed unto them , but giving evidence of habits and actions inconsistent therewithal , is not only to disturb all church order , but utterly to overthrow the ends and being of churches . nor is there any thing more scandalous unto christian religion , than what bellarmine affirms to be the judgment of the papists in opposition unto all others ; namely , that no internal vertue or grace is required unto the constitution of a church in its members . lib. . de eccles. cap. . . they must be such as do make an open profession of the subjection of their souls and consciences unto the authority of christ in the gospel , and their readiness to yield obedience unto all his commands . this i suppose will not be denied ; for not only doth the scripture make this profession necessary unto the participation of any benefit or privilege of the gospel ; but the nature of the things themselves requires indispensably that so it should be . for nothing can be more unreasonable than , that men should be taken into the privileges attending obedience unto the laws and commands of christ , without avowing or professing that obedience . wherefore , our enquiry is only what is required unto such a profession , as may render men meet to be members of a church , and give them a right thereunto . for to suppose such a confession of christian religion to be compliant with the gospel , which is made by many who openly live in sin , being disobedient , and unto every good work reprobate , is to renounce the gospel it self . christ is not the high-priest of such a profession . i shall therefore declare briefly what is necessary unto this profession , that all may know what it is which is required unto the entrance of any into our churches , wherein our practice hath been sufficiently traduced . . there is required unto it a competent knowledge of the doctrines and mystery of the gospel , especially concerning the person and offices of christ. the confession hereof , was the ground whereon he granted the keys of the kingdom of heaven , or all church power unto believers , matth. . , , . the first instruction which he gave unto his apostles , was , that they should teach men by the preaching of the gospel , in the knowledge of the truth revealed by him . the knowledge required in the members of the judaical church , that they might be translated into the christian , was principally , if not solely , that of his person , and the acknowledgment of him to be the true messiah , the son of god. for as on their unbelief thereof their eternal ruine did depend , as he told them , if you believe not that i am he , you shall die in your sins ; so the confession of him was sufficient on their part unto their admission into the gospel church state. and the reasons of it are apparent . with others , an instruction in all the mysteries of religion , especially in those that are fundamental , is necessary unto the profession we enquire after . so justin martyr tells us what pains they took in those primitive times , to instruct those in the mysteries of religion , who upon a general conviction of its truth , were willing to adhere unto the profession of it . and what was their judgment herein , is sufficiently known , from the keeping a multitude in the state of catechumens , before they would admit them into the fellowship of the church . they are not therefore to be blamed , they do but discharge their duty , who refuse to receive into church-communion such as are ignorant of the fundamental doctrines and mysteries of the gospel ; or if they have learned any thing of them from a form of words , yet really understand nothing of them . the promiscuous driving of all sorts of persons who have been baptized in their infancy , unto a participation of all church privileges , is a profanation of the holy institutions of christ. this knowledge therefore belonging unto profession is it self to be professed . . there is required unto it a professed subjection of soul and conscience unto the authority of christ in the church . this in general is performed by all that are baptized when they are adult , as being by their own actual consent baptized in the name of christ. and it is required of all them who are baptized in their infancy , when they are able with faith and understanding to profess their consent unto , and abiding in that covenant whereinto they were initiated . . an instruction in , and consent unto the doctrine of self-denial and bearing of the cross , in a particular manner : for this is made indispensably necessary by our saviour himself , unto all that will be his disciples . and it hath been a great disadvantage unto the glory of christian religion , that men have not been more and better instructed therein . it is commonly thought , that who ever will , may be a christian at an easie rate , it will cost him nothing . but the gospel gives us another account of these things . for it not only warns us , that reproaches , hatred , sufferings of all sorts , oft-times to death it self , are the common lot of all its professors , who will live godly in christ jesus ; but also requires , that at our initiation into the profession of it , we consider aright the dread of them all , and engage cheerfully to undergo them . hence , in the primitive times , whilst all sorts of miseries were continually presented unto them who embraced the christian religion , their willing engagement to undergo them , who were converted , was a firm evidence of the sincerity of their faith , as it ought to be unto us also in times of difficulty and persecution . some may suppose that the faith and confession of this doctrine of self-denial and readiness for the cross , is of use only in time of persecution , and so doth not belong unto them who have continually the countenance and favour of publick authority . i say , it is , at least as they judge , well for them ; with others it is not so , whose outward state makes the publick avowing of this duty indispensably necessary unto them : and i may add it as my own thoughts , ( though they are not my own alone ) that notwithstanding all the countenance that is given unto any church by the publick magistracy , yet whilst we are in this world , those who will faithfully discharge their duty , as ministers of the gospel especially , shall have need to be prepared for sufferings . to escape sufferings , and enjoy worldly advantages by sinful compliances , or bearing with men in their sins , is no gospel direction . . conviction and confession of sin , with the way of deliverance by jesus christ , is that answer of a good conscience , that is required in the baptism of them that are adult . pet. . . unto this profession is required the constant performance of all known duties of religion , both of piety in the publick and private worship of god , as also of charity with respect unto others . shew me thy faith by thy works . . a careful abstinence from all known sins , giving scandal or offence , either unto the world , or unto the church of god. and the gospel requires , that this confession be made ( with the mouth confession is made unto salvation ) against ( . ) fear , ( . ) shame , ( . ) the course of the world , ( . ) the opposition of all enemies whatever . hence it appears , that there are none excluded from an entrance into the church state , but such as are either , ( . ) grosly ignorant , or , ( . ) persecutors , or reproachers of those that are good , or of the ways of god wherein they walk ; or , ( . ) idolaters ; or , ( . ) men scandalous in their lives in the commission of sins , or omission of duties , through vitious habits or inclinations ; or , ( . ) such as would partake of gospel-privileges and ordinances , yet openly avow that they will not submit unto the law and commands of christ in the gospel , concerning whom , and the like , the scripture rule is peremptory ; from such turn away . and herein we are remote from exceeding the example and care of the primitive churches . yea , there are but few , if any , that arrive unto it . their endeavour was to preach unto all they could , and rejoiced in the multitudes that came to hear the word . but if any did essay to join themselves unto the church , their diligence in their examination and instruction , their severe enquiries into their conversation , their disposing of them for a long time into a state of expectation for their trial , before their admittance , were remarkable . and some of the ancients complain , that their promiscuous admittance of all sorts of persons that would profess the christian religion , into church membership , which took place afterwards , ruined all the beauty , order and discipline of the church . the things ascribed unto those who are to be esteemed the proper subject matter of a visible church , are such as in the judgment of charity entitle them unto all the appellations of saints ; called , sanctified , that is visibly and by profession , which are given unto the members of all the churches in the new testament , and which must be answered in those who are admitted into that privilege , if we do not wholly neglect our only patterns . by these things , although they should any of them not be real living members of the mystical body of christ , unto whom he is an head of spiritual and vital influence ; yet are they meet members of that body of christ unto which he is an head of rule and government ; as also meet to be esteemed subjects of his kingdom . and none are excluded but such , as concerning whom rules are given , either to withdraw from them , or to cast them out of church society , or are expresly excluded by god himself from any share in the privileges of his covenant , psal. . , . divines , of all sorts , do dispute from the scripture and the testimonies of the ancients , that hypocrites , and persons unregenerate may be true members of visible churches . and it is a matter very easie to be proved ; nor do i know any by whom it is denied . but the only question is , that whereas undoubtedly , profession is necessary unto all church communion ; whether , if men do profess themselves hypocrites in state , and unregenerate in mind , that profession do sufficiently qualify them for church communion . and whereas there is a double profession , one by words , the other by works , as the apostle declares , tit. . . whether the latter be not as interpretative of the mind and state of men as the former ; other contest we have with none , in this matter . belarmine de eccles. lib. . cap. . gives an account out of augustine , and that truly , from brevec . collat. col. . of the state of the church . it doth , saith he , consist of a soul and body . the soul is the internal graces of the spirit ; the body is the profession of them , with the sacraments . all true believers making profession , belong to the soul and body of the church . some , ( as believing catechumens ) belong to the soul , but not to the body : others are of the body , but not of the soul ; namely , such as have no internal grace or true faith ; and they are like the hair or the nails , or evil humours in the body . and thereunto adds , that his definition of the church comprizeth this last sort only ; which is all one , as if we should define a man to be a thing constituted and made up of hair , nails , and ill humours ; and let others take heed that they have not such churches . there is nothing more certain in matter of fact , than that evangelical churches at their first constitution , were made up , and did consist of such members as we have described , and no other . nor is there one word in the whole scripture intimating any concession or permission of christ , to receive into his church those who are not so qualified . others have nothing to plead for themselves but possession ; which being malae fidei , ill obtained , and ill continued , will afford them no real advantage , when the time of trial shall come . wherefore , it is certain that such they ought to be . no man , as i suppose , is come unto that profligate sense of spiritual things , as to deny , that the members of the church ought to be visibly holy. for if so , they may affirm , that all the promises and privileges made and granted to the church , do belong unto them who visibly live and die in their sins ; which is to overthrow the gospel . and if they ought so to be , and were so at first , when they are not so , openly and visibly , there is a declension from the original constitution of churches , and a sinful deviation in them from the rule of christ. this original constitution of churches , with respect unto their members , was for the substance of it , as we observed , preferred in the primitive times , whilst persecution from without , was continued , and discipline preserved within . i have in part declared before , what great care and circumspection the church then used in the admission of any into their fellowship and order , and what trial they were to undergo , before they were received ; and it is known also , with what severe discipline they watched over the faith , walking , conversation and manners of all their members . indeed , such was their care and diligence herein , that there is scarce left in some churches , at present , the least resemblance or appearance of what was their state and manner of rule . wherefore , some think it meet to ascend no higher in the imitation of the primitive churches , than the times of the christian emperours , when all things began to rush into the fatal apostasie , which i shall here speak a little farther unto : for , upon the roman emperours embracing christian religion , whereby not only outward peace and tranquility was secured unto the church , but the profession of christian religion was countenanced , encouraged , honoured and rewarded ; the rule , care and diligence of the churches about the admission of members , were in a great measure relinquished and forsaken . the rulers of the church began to think , that the glory of it consisted in its numbers ; finding both their own power , veneration and revenue encreased thereby . in a short time , the inhabitants of whole cities and provinces , upon a bare outward profession , were admitted into churches . and then began the outward court , that is , all that which belongs unto the outward worship and order of the church , to be trampled on by the gentiles , not kept any more to the measure of scripture rule , which thenceforth was applied only to the temple of god and them that worshipped therein : for this corruption of the church , as to the matter of it , was the occasion and means of introducing all that corruption in doctrine , worship , order and rule which ensued , and ended in the great apostacy . for whatever belonged unto any of these things , especially these that consist in practice , were accommodated unto the state of the members of the churches : and such they were as stood in need of superstitious rites to be mixed with their worship , as not understanding the power and glory of that which is spiritual ; such as no interest in church order could be committed unto , seeing they were not qualified to bear any share in it ; such as stood in need of a rule over them , with grandeur and power , like unto that among the gentiles . wherefore , the accommodation of all church concerns , unto the state and condition of such corrupt members as churches were filled with , and at length made up of , proved the ruine of the church in all its order and beauty . but so it fell out , that in the protestant reformation of the church , very little regard was had thereunto . those great and worthy persons who were called unto that work , did set themselves principally , yea , solely for the most part , against the false doctrine and idolatrous worship of the church of rome ; as judging , that if they were removed and taken away , the people by the efficacy of truth and order of worship , would be retrived from the evil of their ways , and primitive holiness be again reduced among them . for they thought it was the doctrine and worship of that church , which had filled the people with darkness and corrupted their conversations . nor did they absolutely judge amiss therein : for although they were themselves at first introduced in compliance with the ignorance and wickedness of the people , yet they were suited to promote them , as well as to countenance them ; which they did effectually . hence it came to pass , that the reformation of the church as unto the matter of it , or the purity and holiness of its members , was not in the least attempted , until calvin set up his discipline at geneva , which hath filled the world with clamours against him from that day to this . in most other places , churches , in the matter of them , continued the same as they were in the papacy , and in many places as bad in their lives as when they were papists . but this method was designed in the holy , wise providence of god , for the good and advantage of the church , in a progressive reformation , as it had made a gradual progress into its decay . for had the reformers in the first place , set themselves to remove out of the church such as were unmeet for its communion , or to have gathered out of them such as were meet members of the church according to its original institution ; it would through the paucity of the number of those who could have complied with the design , have greatly obstructed , if not utterly defeated their endeavour for the reformation of doctrine and worship . this was that in the preaching of the gospel and the profession of it , which god hath since made effectual , in these nations especially , and in other places , to turn multitudes from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto himself , translating them into the kingdom of his dear son. hereby ▪ way is made for a necessary addition unto the work of reformation , if not to the closing of it , which could not at first be attained unto , nor well attempted ; namely the reduction of churches , as unto their matter , or the members of them unto their primitive institution . the sum of what is designed in this discourse , is this only . we desire no more to constitute church members , and we can desire no less , than what in judgment of charity may comply with the vnion that is between christ the head and the church ; cor. . . eph. . . cor. . , . cor. . , . thess. . , , &c. that may in the same judgment answer the way of the beginning and increase of the church according unto the will of god , who adds unto the church such as shall be saved , act. . . the rule of our receiving of them , being because he hath received them , rom. . , . that may answer that profession of faith which was the foundation of the church , which was not what flesh and blood , but what god himself revealed , matth. . . and not such as have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof , tim. . . we acknowledge that many church members are not what they ought to be , but that many hypocrites may be among them ; that the judgment which is passed on the confession and profession of them that are to be admitted into churches , is charitative , proceeding on evidence of moral probability , not determining the reality of the things themselves ; that there are sundry measures of light , knowledge , experience , and abilities and readiness of mind in those that are to be admitted , all whose circumstances are duly to be considered , with indulgence unto their weaknesses : and if the scripture will allow us any further latitude , we are ready to embrace it . our present enquiry yet remaining on these considerations , is , what is our duty in point of communion with such churches as are made up or composed of members visibly unholy ; or such as comply not with the qualifications that are by the rules of the gospel indispensably required , to give unto any a regular entrance into the church , with a participation of its privileges . for it is in vain to expect , that such churches will reform themselves , by any act , duty or power of their own ; seeing the generality of them are justly supposed averse from , and enemies unto any such work. i answer therefore , . it must be remembred , that communion with particular churches is to be regulated absolutely by edification . no man is or can be obliged to abide in or confine himself unto the communion of any particular church , any longer , than it is for his edification . and this liberty is allowed unto all persons by the church of england . for , allow a man to be born in such a parish , to be baptized in it , and there educated ; yet , if at any time he judge that the ministry of the parish is not useful unto his edification , he may withdraw from all communion in that parish , by the removal of his habitation , it may be to the next door . wherefore , . if the corruption of a church , as to the matter of it , be such as that , . it is inconsistent with , and overthroweth all that communion that ought to be among the members of the same church , in love without dissimulation , whereof we shall treat afterwards . . if the scandals and offences which must of necessity abound in such churches , be really obstructive of edification . . if the ways and walking of the generality of their members , be dishonourable unto the gospel , and the profession of it , giving no representation of the holiness of christ or his doctrine . . if such churches do not , can not , will not reform themselves : then , it is the duty of every man who takes care of his own present edification , and the future salvation of his soul , peaceably to withdraw from the communion of such churches , and to join in such others , where all the ends of church societies may in some measure be obtained . men may not only do so , because all obligation unto the use of means for the attaining of such an end , doth cease , when the means are not suited thereunto , but obstructive of its attainment ; but also the giving of a testimony hereby against the declension from the rule of christ in the institution of churches , and the dishonour that by this means is reflected on the gospel , is necessary unto all that desire to acquit themselves as loyal subjects unto their lord and king. and it cannot be questioned by any , who understand the nature , use and end of evangelical churches , but that a relinquishment of the rule of the gospel in any of them , as unto the practice of holiness , is as just a cause of withdrawing communion from them , as their forsaking the same rule in doctrine and worship . it may be some will judge that sundry inconveniences will ensue on this assertion , when any have a mind to practise according unto it . but when the matter of fact supposed , is such as is capable of an uncontrollable evidence , no inconvenience can ensue on the practice directed unto , any way to be compared unto the mischief of obliging believers to abide always in such societies , to the ruine of their souls . two things may be yet enquired into , that relate unto this part of the state of evangelical churches : as , . whether a church may not , ought not , to take under its conduct , inspection and rule , such as are not yet meet to be received into full communion ; such as are the children and servants of those who are compleat members of the church . answ. no doubt the church in its officers , may and ought so to do ; and it is a great evil when it is neglected . for , ( . ) they are to take care of parents and masters as such , and as unto the discharge of their duty in their families ; which , without an inspection into the condition of their children and servants , they cannot do . ( . ) housholds were constantly reckoned unto the church , when the heads of the families were entred into covenant , luk. . . act. . . rom. . , . cor. . . tim. . . ( . ) children to belong unto , and have an interest in their parents covenant ; not only in the promise of it , which gives them right unto baptism ; but in the profession of it in the church covenant , which gives them a right unto all the privileges of the church , whereof they are capable , until they voluntarily relinquish their claim unto them . ( . ) baptizing the children of church members , giving them thereby an admission into the visible catholick church , puts an obligation on the officers of the church , to take care , what in them lieth , that they may be kept and preserved meet members of it , by a due watch over them , and instruction of them . ( . ) though neither the church nor its privileges be continued and preserved as of old , by carnal generation ; yet , because of the nature of the dispensation of gods covenant , wherein he hath promised to be a god unto believers and their seed ; the advantage of the means of a gracious education in such families , and of conversion and edification in the ministry of the church , ordinarily the continuation of the church , is to depend on the addition of members out of the families already incorporated in it . the church is not to be like the kingdom of the mamalukes , wherein there was no regard unto natural successors ; but it was continually made up of strangers and foreigners incorporated into it : nor like the beginning of the roman common-weal , which consisting of men only , was like to have been the matter of one age alone . the duty of the church towards this sort of persons , consists , ( . ) in prayer for them . ( . ) catechetical instruction of them , according unto their capacities . ( . ) advice to their parents concerning them . ( . ) visiting of them in the families whereunto they do belong . ( . ) encouragement of them , or admonition according as there is occasion . ( . ) direction for a due preparation unto the joining themselves unto the church , in full communion . ( . ) exclusion of them from a claim unto the participation of the especial privileges of the church , where they render themselves visibly unmeet for them , and unworthy of them . the neglect of this duty brings unconceivable prejudice unto churches , and if continued in , will prove their ruine . for they are not to be preserved , propagated and continued , at the easie rate of a constant supply by the carnal baptized posterity of those who do at any time justly or unjustly belong unto them : but they are to prepare a meet supply of members , by all the spiritual means whose administration they are intrusted withal . and besides , one end of churches , is , to preserve the covenant of god in the families once graciously taken thereinto . the neglect therefore herein , is carefully to be watched against . and it doth arise , ( . ) from an ignorance of the duty , in most that are concerned in it . ( . ) from the paucity of officers in most churches , both teaching and ruling , who are to attend unto it . ( . ) the want of a teacher or catechist in every church , who should attend only unto the instruction of this sort of persons . ( . ) want of a sense of their duty in parents and masters . ( . ) in not valuing aright the great privilege of having their children and servants under the inspection , care and blessing of the church . ( . ) in not instilling into them a sense of it , with the duties that are expected from them , on the account of their relation unto the church . ( . ) in not bringing them duly unto the church assemblies . ( . ) in not preparing and disposing them unto an actual entrance into full communion with the church . ( . ) in not advising with the elders of the church about them . and , ( . ) especially by an indulgence unto that loose and careless kind of education in conformity unto the world , which generally prevails . hence it is , that most of them on various accounts and occasions , drop off here and there from the communion of the church , and all relation thereunto , without the least respect unto them , or enquiry after them ; churches being supplied by such as are occasionally converted in them . where churches are compleat in the kind and number of their officers , sufficient to attend unto all the duties and occasions of them ; where whole families , in the conjunction of the heads of them unto the church , are dedicated unto god , according unto the several capacities of those whereof they do consist ; where the design of the church is to provide for its own successive continuation in the preservation of the interest of gods covenant in the families taken thereinto ; where parents esteem themselves accountable unto god and the church , as unto the relation of their children thereunto , there is provision for church order , usefulness and beauty , beyond what is usually to be observed . . the especial duty of the church in admission of members in the time of great persecution , may be a little enquired into . and , ( . ) it is evident , that in the apostolical and primitive times , the churches were exceeding careful not to admit into their society , such as by whom they might be betrayed unto the rage of their persecuting adversaries . yet , notwithstanding all their care , they could seldom avoid it ; but that when persecution grew severe , some or other would fall from them , either out of fear , with the power of temptation , or by a discovery of their latent hypocrisie and unbelief , unto their great trial and distress . however , they were not so scrupulous herein , with respect unto their own safety , as to exclude such as gave a tolerable account of their sincerity ; but in the discharge of their duty , committed themselves unto the care of jesus christ. and this is the rule whereby we ought to walk on such occasions . wherefore , ( . ) on supposition of the establishment of idolatry , and persecution , there or in any place , as it was of old , under , first the pagan , and afterwards the antichristian tyranny ; the church is obliged to receive into its care and communion all such as , ( . ) flee from idols , and are ready to confirm their testimony against them with suffering . ( . ) make profession of the truth of the gospel of the doctrine of christ , especially as unto his person and offices ; are , ( . ) free from scandalous sins ; and , ( . ) are willing to give up themselves unto the rule of christ in the church , and a subjection unto all his ordinances and institutions therein . for in such a season , these things are so full an indication of sincerity , as that in the judgment of charity , they render men meet to be members of the visible church . and if any of this sort of persons , through the severity of the church in their non admission of them , should be cast on a conjunction in superstitious and idolatrous worship , or be otherwise exposed unto temptations and discouragements prejudicial unto their souls , i know not how such a church can answer the refusal of them unto the great and universal pastor of the whole flock . chap. ii. of the formal cause of a particular church . the way or means whereby such persons as are described in the foregoing chapter , may become a church , or enter into a church-state , is by mutual confederation , or solemn agreement for the performance of all the duties which the lord christ hath prescribed unto his disciples in such churches , and in order to the exercise of the power wherewith they are intrusted , according unto the rule of the word . for the most part , the churches that are in the world at present , know not how they came so to be , continuing only in that state which they have received by tradition from their fathers . few there are , who think that any act or duty of their own , is required to enstate them in church order and relation . and it is acknowledged , that there is a difference between the continuation of a church , and its first erection . yet , that that continuation may be regular , it is required that its first congregating ( for the church is a congregation ) was so ; as also , that the force and efficacy of it be still continued . wherefore , the causes of that first gathering , must be enquired into . the churches mentioned in the new testament , planted or gathered by the apostles , were particular churches , as hath been proved . these churches did consist each of them of many members , who were so members of one of them , as that they were not members of another . the saints of the church of corinth , were not members of the church at philippi . and the enquiry is , how those believers in one place and the other became to be a church , and that distinct from all others ? the scripture affirms in general , that they gave up themselves unto the lord and unto the apostles , who guided them in these affairs , by the will of god , cor. . . and that other believers were added unto the church , act. . that it is the will and command of our lord jesus christ , that all his disciples should be joined in such societies , for the duties and ends of them prescribed and limited by himself , hath been proved sufficiently before . all that are discipled by the word , are to be taught to do and observe all his commands , matth. . . this could originally be no otherwise done , but by their own actual , express , voluntary consent . there are sundry things which concurr as remote causes , or prerequisite conditions unto this conjunction of believers in a particular church , and without which it cannot be . such are baptism , profession of the christian faith , convenient cohabitation , resorting to the preaching of the word in the same place . but neither any of these distinctly or separately , nor all of them in conjunction , are or can be the constitutive form of a particular church . for it is evident that they may all be , and yet no such church state ensue . they cannot altogether engage unto those duties , nor communicate those powers , which appertain unto this state. were there no other order in particular churches , no other discipline to be exercised in them , nor rule over them , no other duties , no other ends assigned unto them , but what are generally owned and practised in parochial assemblies , the preaching of the word within such a precinct of cohabitation , determined by civil authority , might constitute a church . but if a church be such a society as is intrusted in it self with sundry powers and privileges depending on sundry duties prescribed unto it , if it constitute new relations between persons , that neither naturally nor morally were before so related , as marriage doth between husband and wife ; if it require new mutual duties , and give new mutual rights among themselves , not required of them either as unto their matter , or as unto their manner before ; it is vain to imagine that this state can arise from , or have any other formal cause , but the joint consent and virtual confederation of those concerned , unto these ends : for there is none of them can have any other foundation ; they are all of them resolved into the wills of men , bringing themselves under an obligation unto them by their voluntary consent . i say unto the wills of men , as their formal cause ; the supreme efficient cause of them all being the will , law and constitution of our lord jesus christ. thus it is in all societies , in all relations that are not meerly natural , ( such as between parents and children , wherein the necessity of powers and mutual duties , is predetermined by a superiour law , even that of nature ) wherein , powers , privileges and mutual duties are established , as belonging unto that society . nor after its first institution , can any one be incorporated into it , but by his own consent , and engagement to observe the laws of it . nor , if the nature and duties of churches were acknowledged , could there be any contest in this matter ; for the things ensuing are clear and evident . . the lord christ , by his authority , hath appointed and instituted this church state , as that there should be such churches , as we have proved before . . that by his word or law he hath granted powers and privileges unto this church , and prescribed duties unto all belonging unto it , wherein , they can have no concernment who are not incorporated into such a church . . that therefore , he doth require and command all his disciples to join themselves in such church relations , as we have proved ; warranting them so to do , by his word and command : wherefore , . this joining of themselves , whereon depends all their interest in church powers and privileges , all their obligation unto church duties , is a voluntary act of the obedience of faith , unto the authority of christ , nor can it be any thing else . . herein do they give themselves unto the lord , and to one another , by their officers , in a peculiar manner , according to the will of god , cor. . . . to give our selves unto the lord , that is unto the lord jesus christ , is expresly to engage to do and observe all that he hath appointed and commanded in the church ; as that phrase every where signifieth in the scripture , as also joining our selves unto god , which is the same . . this resignation of our selves unto the will , power and authority of christ , with an express ingagement made unto him of doing and observing all his commands , hath the nature of a covenant on our part ; and it hath so on his , by virtue of the promise of his especial presence annexed unto this engagement on our part , matth. . , , . . for , whereas there are three things required unto a covenant between god and man. ( . ) that it be of gods appointment and institution . ( . ) that upon a prescription of duties there be a solemn engagement unto their performance on the part of men. ( . ) that there be especial promises of god annexed thereunto , in which consists the matter of confederation , whereof mutual express restipulation is the form ; they all concurr herein . . this covenant which we intend , is not the covenant of grace absolutely considered ; nor are all the duties belonging unto that covenant prescribed in it ; but the principal of them , as faith , repentance , and the like , are presupposed unto it ; nor hath annexed unto it all the promises and privileges of the new covenant absolutely considered ; but it is that which is prescribed as a gospel duty in the covenant of grace , whereunto do belong all the duties of evangelical worship , all the powers and privileges of the church , by virtue of the especial promise of the peculiar presence of christ in such a church . . whereas therefore in the constitution of a church , believers do give up themselves unto the lord , and are bound solemnly to engage themselves to do and observe all the things which christ hath commanded to be done and observed in that state , whereon he hath promised to be present with them and among them in an especial manner , which presence of his , doth interest them in all the rights , powers and privileges of the church ; their so doing , hath the nature of a divine covenant included in it , which is the formal cause of their church sate and being . . besides , as we have proved before , there are many mutual duties required of all which join in church societies , and powers to be exercised and submitted unto , whereunto none can be obliged without their own consent . they must give up themselves unto one another by the will of god. that is , they must agree , consent and engage among themselves to observe all those mutual duties , to use all those privileges , and to exercise all those powers , which the lord christ hath prescribed and granted unto his church . see jerem. . , . . this compleats the confederation intended , which is the formal cause of the church ; and without which , either expresly or virtually performed , there can be no church state. . indeed herein most men deceive themselves , and think they do not that , nor that it ought to be done , and dispute against it as unlawful or unnecessary , which for the substance of it they do themselves , and would condemn themselves in their own consciences , if they did it not . for unto what end do they join themselves unto parochial churches and assemblies ? to what end do they require all professors of the protestant religion so to do , declaring it to be their duty by penalties annexed unto its neglect ? is it not , that they might yield obedience unto christ in their so doing ? is it not to profess that they will do and observe all whatsoever he commands them ? is it not to do it in that society , in those assemblies whereunto they do belong ? is there not therein virtually a mutual agreement and engagement among them unto all those ends ? it must be so with them , who do not in all things in religion fight uncertainly as men beating the air. . now , whereas these things are in themselves , and for the substance of them , known gospel duties , which all believers are indispensably obliged unto ; the more express our engagement is concerning them , the more do we glorify christ in our profession , and the greater sense of our duty will abide on our consciences , and greater encouragement be given unto the performance of mutual duties ; as also the more evident will the warranty be , for the exercise of church power . yet do i not deny the being of churches unto those societies , wherein these things are virtually only observed ; especially in churches of some continuance , wherein there is at least an implicit consent unto the first covenant-constitution . . the lord christ having instituted and appointed officers , rulers or leaders in his church , ( as we shall see in the next place ) to look unto the discharge of all church duties among the members of it , to administer and dispense all its privileges , and to exercise all its authority , the consent and engagement insisted on , is expresly required unto the constitution of this order and the preservation of it . for without this , no believer can be brought into that relation unto another as his pastor , guide , over-seer , ruler unto the ends mentioned , wherein he must be subject unto him , partake of all ordinances of divine worship administred by him with authority , in obedience unto the will of christ ; they gave their own selves to us ( saith the apostle ) by the will of god. . wherefore , the formal cause of a church consisteth in an obediential act of believers , in such numbers as may be useful unto the ends of church edification , jointly giving up themselves unto the lord jesus christ , to do and observe all his commands , resting on the promise of his especial presence thereon ; giving and communicating by his law , all the rights , powers and privileges of his church unto them ; and in a mutual agreement among themselves , jointly to perform all the duties required of them in that state , with an especial subjection unto the spiritual authority of rules and rulers appointed by christ in that state. . there is nothing herein , which any man who hath a conscientious sense of his duty in a professed subjection unto the gospel , can question for the substance of it , whether it be according to the mind of christ or no. and whereas the nature and essential properties of a divine covenant are contained in them , as such it is a foundation of any church state. . thus under the old testament , when god would take the post●rity of abraham into a new peculiar church state , he did it by a solemn covenant . herein , as he prescribed all the duties of his worship to them , and made them many blessed promises of his presence , with powers and privileges innumerable ; so the people solemnly covenanted and engaged with him , that they would do and observe all that he had commanded them ; whereby they coalesced into that church state , which abode unto the time of reformation . this covenant is at large declared exod. . for the covenant which god made there with the people , and they with him , was not the covénant of grace under a legal dispensation ; for that was established unto the seed of abraham four hundred years before in the promise , with the seal of circumcision ; nor was it the covenant of works under a gospel dispensation ; for god never renewed that covenant under any consideration whatever : but it was a peculiar covenant which god then made with them , and had not made it with their fathers , deut. . , . whereby they were raised and erected into a church state , wherein they were intrusted with all the privileges , and enjoined all the duties which god had annexed thereunto . this covenant was the sole formal cause of their church state , which they are charged so often to have broken , and which they so often solemnly renewed unto god. . this was that covenant which was to be abolished , whereon the church state that was built thereon , was utterly taken away . for hereon the hebrews ceased to be the peculiar church of god , because the covenant whereby they were made so , was abolished and taken away , as the apostle disputes at large , heb. , , . the covenant of grace in the promise , will still continue unto the true seed of abraham , act. . , . but the church covenant was utterly taken away . . upon the removal therefore of this covenant , and the church state founded thereon , all duties of worship and church privileges were also taken away ; ( the things substituted in their room being totally of another kind . but the covenant of grace , as made with abraham , being continued and transferred unto the gospel worshippers , the sign or token of it given unto him is changed ; but another substituted in the room thereof . but whereas the privileges of this church covenant were in themselves carnal only , and no way spiritual , but as they were typical ; and the duties prescribed in it were burdensome , yea , a yoke intolerable ; the apostle declares in the same place , that the new church state , whereinto we are called by the gospel , hath no duties belonging unto it , but such as are spiritual and easie ; but withal , hath such holy and eminent privileges as the church could no way enjoy by virtue of the first church covenant ; nor could be believers made partakers of them , before that covenant was abolished : wherefore , . the same way for the erection of a church state for the participation of the more excellent privileges of the gospel , and performance of the duties of it , for the substance of it must still be continued . for the constitution of such a society as a church is , entrusted with powers and privileges , by a covenant or mutual consent , with an ingagement unto the performance of the duties belonging unto it , hath its foundation in the light of nature , so far as it hath any thing in common with other voluntary relations and societies ; was instituted by god himself , as the way and means of erecting the church state of the old testament ; and consisteth in the performance of such duties as are expresly required of all believers . chap. iii. of the polity , rule , or discipline of the church in general . . the things last treated of concern the essence of the church , or the essential constituent parts of it , according unto the appointment of christ. it remains in the next place , that we should treat of it as it is organical , or a body corporate ; a spiritually political society , for the exercise of the powers wherewith it is intrusted by christ , and the due performance of the duties which he requires . now , whereas it is brought into this estate , by the setting , fixing or placing officers in it , method would require that we should first treat of them , their nature , names , power , and the ways of coming unto their offices . but , whereas all things concerning them are founded in the grant of power unto the church it self , and the institution of polity and rule therein by jesus christ , i shall first treat somewhat thereof in general . that which we intend on various considerations and in divers respects , is called the power or authority , the polity , the rule , the government and the discipline of the church . the formal nature of it , is its authority or power . it s polity , is skill and wisdom to act that power unto its proper ends . it s rule , is the actual exercise of that power , according unto that skill and wisdom . it s government is the exercise and application of that authority according unto that skill , towards those that are its proper objects . and it is called its discipline , principally with respect unto its end . yet is it not material whether these things are thus accurately distinguished ; the same thing is intended in them all , which i shall call the rule of the church . . the rule of the church is in general the exercise of the power or authority of jesus christ , given unto it according unto the laws and directions prescribed by himself unto its edification . this power in actu primo , or fundamentally , is in the church it self ; in actu secundo , or its exercise , in them that are especially called thereunto . whether that which is now called the rule of the church by some , being a plain secular dominion , have any affinity hereunto , is justly doubted . that it is in it self the acting of the authority of christ , wherein the power of men is ministerial only , is evident . for , ( . ) all this authority in and over the church is vested in him alone . ( . ) it is over the souls and consciences of men only , which no authority can reach but his , and that as it is his ; whereof we shall treat more afterwards . the sole end of the ministerial exercise of this power and rule , by virtue thereof unto the church , is the edification of it self , rom. . , , . cor. . . chap. . . ephes. . , . . this is the especial nature and especial end of all power granted by jesus christ unto the church ; namely , a ministry unto edification , in opposition unto all the ends whereunto it hath been abused . for it hath been so unto the usurpation of a dominion over the persons and consciences of the disciples of christ , accompanied with secular grandeur , wealth and power . the lord christ never made a grant of any authority , for any such ends ; yea , they are expresly forbidden by him , luk. . . matth. . , , . jesus called his disciples unto him , and said , ye know that the princes of the gentiles exercise dominion over them , and they that are great exercise authority upon them : but it shall not be so among you ; but whosoever will be great among you , let him be your minister ; and whosoever will be chief among you , let him be your servant ; even as the son of man came not to be ministred unto , but to minister . all the pleas of the romanists are utterly insufficient to secure their papal domination from this sword of the mouth of the lord jesus . for , whereas their utmost pretence and defence consists in this , that it is not dominion and power absolutely that is forbidden , but the vnlawful , tyrannical , oppressive exercise of power , such as was in use among the princes of the gentiles ; never was there any dominion in the world , no not among the gentiles , more cruel , oppressive and bloody , than that of the pope's hath been . but it is evident , that our lord jesus christ doth not in the least reflect on the rule or government of the kings and princes of the gentiles , which was good and righteous : yea , he speaks of them in an especial manner , whom their subjects for their moderate and equal rule , with their usefulness unto their countries , called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or benefactors . their rule , as unto thé kind and administration of it in the kingdoms of the world , he approves of . and such a power or preheminence it was , namely good and just in it self , not tyrannical and oppressive , that the two disciples desired in his kingdom , which gave occasion unto this declaration of the nature of his kingdom , and the rule thereof . for in this power or dominion two things may be considered . ( . ) the exercise of it over the persons , goods and lives of men , by courts , coercive jurisdictions , processes of law , and external force in punishments . ( . ) the state , grandeur , preheminence , wealth , exaltation above others , which are necessary unto the maintenance of their authority and power . both these in the least participation of them , in the least degree whatever , are forbidden by our saviour to be admitted in his kingdom , or to have any place therein , on what pretence soever . he will have nothing of lordship , domination , preheminence in lordly power in his church . no courts , no coercive jurisdictions , no exercise of any humane authority doth he allow therein ; for by these means do the princes of the gentiles , those that are the benefactors of their countries , rule among them . and this is most evident from what in opposition hereunto he prescribes unto his own disciples , the greatest , the best in office , grace and gifts ; namely a ministery only , to be discharged in the way of service . how well this great command and direction of our lord jesus christ hath been and is complied withal , by those who have taken on them to be rulers in the church , is sufficiently known . wherefore there is no rule of the church , but what is ministerial , consisting in an authoritative declaration and application of the commands and will of christ unto the souls of men , wherein , those who exercise it are servants unto the church for its edification , for jesus sake , cor. . . it hence follows , that the introduction of humane authority into the rule of the church of christ in any kind , destroyeth the nature of it , and makes his kingdom to be of this world , and some of his disciples to be in their measure like the princes of the gentiles ; nor is it oft-times from themselves , that they are not more like them than they are . the church is the house of christ , his family , his kingdom . to act any power in its rule , which is not his , which derives not from him , which is not communicated by his legal grant ; or to act any power , by ways , processes , rules and laws not of his appointment , is an invasion of his right and dominion . it can no otherwise be , if the church be his family , his house , his kingdom . for what father would endure that any power should be exercised in his family as to the disposal of his children and estate , but his own ? what earthly prince will bear with such an intrusion into his rights and dominion ? foreign papal power is severely excluded here in england , because it entrenches on the rights of the crown , by the exercise of an authority and jurisdiction not derived from the king according unto the law of the land. and we should do well to take care that at the same time we do not encroach upon the dominion of christ , by the exercise of an authority not derived from him , or by laws and rules not enacted by him , but more foreign unto his kingdom , than the canon law or the popes rule is unto the laws of this nation , lest we fall under the statute of praemunire , matth. . , , . the power of rule in the church , then , is nothing but a right to yield obedience unto the commands of christ , in such a way , by such rules , and for such ends , as wherein and whereby his authority is to be acted . the persons concerned in this rule of the church , both those that rule and those that are to be ruled , as unto all their civil and political concerns in this world , are subject unto the civil government of the kingdoms and places wherein they inhabit . and there are sundry things which concern the outward state and condition of the church that are at the disposal of the governours of this world : but , whereas the power to be exercised in the church is meerly spiritual as unto its objects , which are the consciences of men ; and as unto its ends , which are the tendency of their souls unto god , their spiritual obedience in christ and eternal life , it is a phrensy to dream of any other power or authority in this rule , but that of christ alone . to sum up this discourse ; if the rulers of the church , the greatest of them , have only a ministerial power committed unto them , and are precisely limited thereunto ; if in the exercise thereof they are servants of the church unto its edification ; if all lordly domination in an exaltation above the church or the members of it , in dignity and authority of this world , and the exercise of power by external coercive jurisdiction be forbidden unto them ; if the whole power and rule of the church be spiritual and not carnal , mighty through god and not through the laws of men ; and be to be exercised by spiritual means for spiritual ends only ; it is apparent how it hath been lost in , or cast out of the world , for the introduction of a lordly domination , a secular coercive jurisdiction , with laws and powers no way derived from christ , in the room thereof . neither is it possible for any man alive to reconcile the present government of some churches , either as unto the officers who have the administration of that rule , or the rules and laws whereby they act and proceed , or powers which they exercise , or the jurisdiction which they claim , or the manner of their proceeding in its administration , unto any tolerable consistency with the principles , rules and laws of the government of the church given by christ himself . and this alone is a sufficient reason why those who endeavour to preserve their loyalty entire ▪ unto jesus christ , should in their own practice seek after the reduction of the rule of the church , unto his commands and appointments ; in the publick disposals of nations we have no concernment . . whereas therefore there is a power and authority for its rule unto edification , given and committed by the lord christ unto his church , i shall proceed to enquire how this power is communicated , what it is , and to whom it is granted , which shall be declared in the ensuing observations . . there was an extraordinary church power committed by the lord jesus christ unto his apostles , who in their own persons were the first and only subject of it . it was not granted unto the church , by it to be communicated unto them according unto any rules prescribed thereunto . for their office as it was apostolical , was antecedent unto the existence of any gospel church state properly so called ; neither had any church the least concurrence or influence into their call or mission . howbeit , when there was a church state , the churches being called and gathered by their ministry , they were given unto the church , and placed in the church for the exercise of all office , with power unto their edification according to the rules and laws of their constitution , act. . , . chap. . , , , . cor. . . chap. . . ephes. . , , , . . this power is ceased in the church . it is so , not by virtue of any law or constitution of christ ; but by a cessation of those actings whence it did flow , and whereon it did depend . for unto this apostolical office and power there was required , ( . ) an immediate personal call from christ himself . ( . ) a commission equally extensive unto all nations for their conversion , and unto all churches equally for their edification . ( . ) an authority in all churches , comprehensive of all that power which is in the ordinary constitution of them , distributed among many . ( . ) a collation of extraordinary gifts ; as of infallibility in teaching , of working miracles , speaking with tongues , and the like . whereas therefore all these things do cease , and the lord christ doth not act in the same manner towards any , this office and power doth absolutely cease . for any to pretend themselves to be successors unto these apostles , as some with a strange confidence and impertinency have done , is to plead that they are personally and immediately called by christ unto their office , that they have authority with respect unto all nations and all churches , and are indued with a spirit of infallibility , and a power of working miracles , whereof outward pomp and ostentation are no sufficient evidences . and certainly , when some of them consider one another , and talk of being the apostles successors , it is but aruspex aruspicens . . least of all in the ordinary state of the church , and the continuation thereof hath the lord christ appointed a vicar , or rather as is pretended a successor , with a plenitude of all church power , to be by him parcelled out unto others . this is that which hath overthrown all church rule and order , introducing luciferian pride and antichristian tyranny in their room . and whereas the only way of christs acting his authority over the churches , and of communicating authority unto them , to be acted by them in his name , is by his word and spirit , which he hath given to continue in his church unto that end unto the consummation of all things , the pope of rome placing himself in his stead for these ends , doth thereby sit in the temple of god , and shew himself to be god. but this is sufficiently confuted among all sober christians ; and those who embrace it , may be left to contend with the mahometans , who affirm , that jesus left john the baptist to be his successor , as haly succeeded unto mahomet . . all these , by whom the ordinary rule of the church is to be exercised unto its edification , are as unto their office and power given unto the church , set or placed in it , not as lords of their faith , but as helpers of their joy , cor. . . chap. . , , . cor. . . ephes. . , , , . pet. . , . for the church is the spouse of christ , the lambs wife ; and by virtue of that relation the enfeoffment into this power is her due and dowry ; all particular persons are but her servants for christs sake . for though some of them be stewards , and set over all their fellow servants , yet he hath not given them the trust of power to rule his spouse at their own will , and to grant what they please unto her . . but as this whole church power is committed unto the whole church by christ ; so all that are called unto the peculiar exercise of any part of it , by virtue of office-authority , do receive that authority from him by the only way of the communication of it , namely , by his word and spirit through the ministry of the church , whereof we shall treat afterwards . v. these things being thus premised in general concerning church power , we must treat yet particularly of the communication of it from christ , and of its distribution as unto its residence in the church . . every individual believer hath power or right given unto him upon his believing to become the son of god , joh. . . hereby , as such , he hath a right and title radically and originally unto , with an interest in all church privileges , to be actually possessed and used according to the rules by him prescribed . for he that is a son of god hath a right unto all the privileges and advantages of the family of god , as well as he is obliged unto all the duties of it . herein lies the foundation of all right unto church power , for both it , and all that belongs unto it , is a part of the purchased inheritance , whereunto right is granted by adoption ; wherefore , the first original grant of all church power and privileges is made unto believers as such . theirs it is with these two limitations ; ( . ) that as such only they cannot exercise any church power , but upon their due observation of all rules and duties given unto this end ; such are joint confession and confederation . ( . ) that each individual , do actually participate therein , according to the especial rules of the church , which peculiarly respects women that do believe . . where-ever there are two or three of these believers , ( the smallest number ) right and power is granted unto them , actually to meet together in the name of christ , for their mutual edification , whereunto he hath promised his presence among them , matth. . , . to meet and to do any thing in the name of christ ; as to exhort , instruct and admonish one another , or to pray together , as v. . there is an especial right or power required thereunto . this is granted by jesus christ unto the least number of consenting believers . and this is a second preparation unto the communication of church power . unto the former , faith only is required , unto this , profession with mutual consent unto , and agreement in the evangelical duties mentioned , are to be added . . where the number of believers is encreased , so as that they are sufficient as unto their number to observe and perform all church duties in the way and manner prescribed for their performance , they have right and power granted unto them , to make a joint solemn confession of their faith , especially as unto the person of christ and his mediation , matth. . , . as also to give up themselves unto him and to one another , in an holy agreement or confederation to do and observe all things whatever that he hath commanded . hereon , by virtue of his laws in his institutions and commands , he gives them power to do all things in their order which he grants unto his church , and enstates them in all the rights and privileges thereof . these believers , i say , thus congregated into a church state , have immediately by virtue thereof , power to take care that all things be done among them , as by the lord christ they are commanded to be done , in and by his church . this therefore is the church essential and homogeneal , unto which the lord christ hath granted all that church power which we enquire after , made it the seat of all ordinances of his worship , and the tabernacle wherein he will dwell . nor since the ceasing of extraordinary officers , is there any other way possible for the congregating of any church , than what doth virtually include the things we have mentioned . . but yet this church state is not compleat ; nor are the ends of its institution attainable in this state. for the lord christ hath appointed such things in and unto it , which in this state it cannot observe . for he hath given authority unto his church to be exercised both in its rule and in the administration of his solemn ordinances of worship . the things before mentioned , are all of them acts of right and power , but not of authority . . wherefore the lord christ hath ordained offices , and appointed officers to be established in the church , ephes. . , . unto these is all church authority granted . for all authority is an act of office-power , which is that which gives unto what is performed by the officers of the church , the formal nature of authority . . therefore unto the church , in the state before described , right and power is granted by christ to call , chuse , appoint and set apart persons made meet for the work of the offices appointed by him , in the ways and by the means appointed by him . nor is there any other way whereby ordinary officers may be fixed in the church , as we have proved before , and shall farther confirm afterwards . that which hereon we must enquire into , is , how or by what means , or by what acts of his sovereign power , the lord christ doth communicate office-power , and therewith the office it self unto any persons whereon their authority is directly from him ; and what are the acts or duties of the church in the collation of this authority . the acts of christ herein may be reduced unto these heads . . he hath instituted and appointed the offices themselves , and made a grant of them unto the church for its edification . as also , he hath determined and limited the powers and duties of the officers . it is not in the power of any or of all the churches in the world , to appoint any office or officer in the church , that christ hath not appointed . and where there are any such , they can have no church authority properly so called ; for that entirely riseth from , and is resolved into the institution of the office by christ himself . and hence , in the first place all the authority of officers in the church proceeds from the authority of christ in the institution of the office it self ; for that which gives being unto any thing , gives it also its essential properties . . by virtue of his relation unto the church as its head , of his kingly power over it and care of it , whereon the continuation and edification of the church in this world do depend ; where ever he hath a church called , he furnisheth some persons with such gifts , abilities and endowments , as are necessary to the discharge of such offices , in the powers , works and duties of them . for it is most unquestionably evident , both in the nature of the thing it self , and in his institution , that there are some especial abilities and qualifications required to the discharge of every church office. wherefore , where the lord christ doth not communicate of these abilities in such a measure as by virtue of them church order may be observed , church power exercised , and all church ordinances administred according to his mind unto the edification of the church , it is no more in the power of men to constitute officers , than to erect or create an office in the church , ephes. . , , . cor. . , , , , , &c. rom. . . this collation of spiritual gifts and abilities for office by jesus christ unto any , doth not immediately constitute all those , or any of them , officers in the church , on whom they are collated , without the observation of that method and order which he hath appointed in the church for the communication of office-power ; yet is it so prerequisite thereunto , that no person not made partaker of them in the measure before mentioned , can , by virtue of any outward rites , order or power , be really vested in the ministry . . this communication of office-power on the part of christ , consists in his institution and appointment of the way and means , whereby persons gifted and qualified by himself , ought to be actually admitted into their offices , so as to administer the powers , and perform the duties of them . for the way of their call and ordination , whereof we shall speak afterwards , is efficacious unto this end of communicating office-power , meerly from his institution and appointment of it . and what is not so , can have no causal influence into the communication of this power . for although sundry things belonging hereunto are directed by the light of nature , as it is , that where one man is set over others in power and authority , which before he had no natural right unto , it should be by their own consent and choice : and some things are of a moral nature , as that especial prayer be used in and about affairs that need especial divine assistance and favour ; and there may be some circumstances of outward actions herein , not to be determined but by the rule of reason on the present posture of occasions ; yet nothing hath any causal influence into the communication of office-power , but what is of the institution and appointment of christ. by virtue hereof , all that are called unto this office , do derive all their power and authority from him alone . . he hath hereon given commands unto the whole church to submit themselves unto the authority of these officers in the discharge of their office , who are so appointed , so prepared or qualified , so called by himself , and to obey them in all things , according unto the limitations which himself also hath given unto the power and authority of such officers . for they who are called unto rule and authority in the church by virtue of their office , are not thereon admitted unto an unlimited power to be exercised at their pleasure in a lordly or despotical manner ; but their power is stated , bounded , limited and confined as to the objects of it , its acts , its manner of administration , its ends , and as unto all things wherein it is concerned . the swelling over these banks by ambition , the breaking up of these bounds by pride and love of domination , by the introduction of a power over the persons of men in their outward concerns , exercised in a legal , coercive , lordly manner , are sufficient to make a forfeiture of all church power in them who are guilty of them . but after that some men saw it fit to transgress the bounds of power and authority prescribed and limited unto them by the lord christ ; which was really exclusive of lordship , dominion and all elation above their brethren , leaving them servants to the church for christs sake , they began to prescribe bounds unto themselves , such as were suited unto their interest , which they called rules or canons , and never left enlarging them at their pleasure , untill they enstated the most absolute tyranny in and over the church , that ever was in the world. by these ways and means doth the lord christ communicate office power unto them that are called thereunto , whereon they become not the officers or ministers of men , no , not of the church , as unto the actings and exercise of their authority , but only as the good and edification of the church is the end of it ; but the officers and ministers of christ himself . . it is hence evident , that in the communication of church power in office unto any persons called thereunto , the work and duty of the church consists formally in acts of obedience unto the commands of christ. hence , it doth not give unto such officers a power or authority that was formally and actually in the body of the community , by virtue of any grant or law of christ , so as that they should receive and act the power of the church , by virtue of a delegation from them ; but only they design , chuse , set apart the individual persons , who thereon are intrusted with office-power by christ himself , according as was before declared . this is the power and right given unto the church essentially considered with respect unto their officers , namely to design , call , chuse , and set apart the persons by the ways of christs appointment unto those offices , whereunto by his laws he hath annexed church power and authority . we need not therefore trouble our selves with the disputes about the first subject of church power , or any part of it . for it is a certain rule , that in the performance of all duties which the lord christ requires , either of the whole church , or of any in the church , especially of the officers , they are the first subject of the power needful unto such duties , who are immediately called unto them . hereby , all things become to be done in the name and authority of christ. for the power of the church , is nothing but a right to perform church duties in obedience unto the commands of christ , and according unto his mind . wherefore all church power is originally given unto the church essentially considered , which hath a double exercise ; first , in the call or choosing of officers ; secondly , in their voluntary acting with them and under them in all duties of rule . ( . ) all authority in the church is committed by christ unto the officers or rulers of it , as unto all acts and duties whereunto office-power is required ; and , ( . ) every individual person hath the liberty of his own judgment , as unto his own consent or dissent in what he is himself concerned . that this power under the name of the keys of the kingdom of heaven was originally granted unto the whole professing church of believers , and that it is utterly impossible it should reside in any other who is subject unto death , or if to be renewed upon any occasional intermission , is so fully proved by all protestant writers against the papists , that it needs not on this occasion be again insisted on . vi. these things have been spoken concerning the polity of the church in general , as it is taken objectively for the constitution of its state , and the laws of its rule ; we are in the next place to consider it subjectively , as it is a power or faculty of the minds of men , unto whom the rule of the church is committed . and in this sence it is the wisdom or understanding of the officers of the church , to exercise the government in it appointed by jesus christ , or to rule it according to his laws and constitutions : or , this wisdom is a spiritual gift ( cor. . . ) whereby the officers of the church are enabled to make a due application of all the rules and laws of christ , unto the edification of the church and all the members of it . unto the attaining of this wisdom , are required , ( . ) fervent prayer for it , jam. . . ( . ) diligent study of the scripture , to find out and understand the rules given by christ unto this purpose , ezra . , , . tim. . , . ( . ) humble waiting on god for the revelation of all that it is to be exercised about , ezek. . . ( . ) a conscientious exercise of the skill which they have received . talents traded with duly will encrease . ( . ) a continual sense of the account which is to be given of the discharge of this great trust , being called to rule in the house of god , heb. . . how much this wisdom hath been neglected in church government ; yea , how much it is despised in the world , is evident unto all . it is skill in the canon law , in the proceedings of vexatious courts , with the learning , subtilty and arts which are required thereunto , that is looked on as the only skill to be exercised in the government of the church . without this a man is esteemed no way meet to be employed in any part of the church government . and according as any do arrive unto a dexterity in this polity , they are esteemed eminently useful . but these things belong not at all unto the government of the church appointed by christ ; nor can any sober man think in his conscience that so they do . what is the use of this art and trade , as unto political ends , we enquired . nor is the true wisdom required unto this end , with the means of attaining of it , more despised , more neglected by any sort of men in the world , than by those whose pretences unto ecclesiastical rule and authority would make it most necessary unto them . two things follow on the supposition laid down . . that the wisdom intended is not promised unto all the members of the church in general ; nor are they required to seek for it by the ways and means of attaining it before laid down ; but respect is had herein only unto the officers of the church . hereon dependeth the equity of the obedience of the people unto their rulers . for wisdom for rule is peculiarly granted unto them , and their duty it is to seek after it in a peculiar manner . wherefore , those who on every occasion are ready to advance their own wisdom and understanding in the affairs and proceedings of the church , against the wisdom of the officers of it , are proud and disorderly . i speak not this to give any countenance unto the out-cries of some , that all sorts of men will suppose themselves wiser than their rulers , and to know what belongs unto the government of the church better than they ; whereas , the government which they exercise belongs not at all unto the rule of the church , determined and limited in the scripture , as the meanest christian can easily discern ; nor is it pretended by themselves so to do : for they say that the lord christ hath prescribed nothing herein , but left it unto the will and wisdom of the church to order all things as they see necessary , which church they are . wherefore , if that will please them , it shall be granted , that in skill for the management of ecclesiastical affairs according to the canon law , with such other rules of the same kind as they have framed , and in the legal proceedings of ecclesiastical courts , as they are called , there are none of the people that are equal unto them , or will contend with them . . it hence also follows , that those who are called unto rule in the church of christ , should diligently endeavour the attaining of , and encreasing in this wisdom , giving evidence thereof on all occasions , that the church may safely acquiesce in their rule . but hereunto so many things do belong , as cannot in this place be meetly treated of ; somewhat that appertains to them shall afterwards be considered . chap. iv. the officers of the church . the church is considered either as it is essential with respect unto its nature and being ; or as it is organical with respect unto its order . the constituent causes and parts of the church as unto its essence and being , are its institution , matter and form ; whereof we have treated . it s order as it is organical , is founded in that communication of power unto it from christ , which was insisted on in the foregoing chapter . the organizing of a church , is the placing or implanting in it those officers which the lord jesus christ hath appointed to act and exercise his authority therein . for the rule and government of the church , are the exertion of the authority of christ in the hands of them unto whom it is committed , that is the officers of it ; not that all officers are called to rule , but that none are called to rule that are not so . the officers of the church in general are of two sorts ; bishops and deacons , phil. . . and their work is distributed into prophecy and ministry , rom. . . . the bishops or elders are of two sorts ; ( . ) such as have authority to teach and administer the sacraments , which is commonly called the power of order , and also of ruling , which is called a power of jurisdiction corruptly : and some have only power for rule ; of which sort , there are some in all the churches in the world. those of the first sort are distinguished into pastors and teachers . the distinction between the elders themselves , is not like that between elders and deacons , which is as unto the whole kind or nature of the office ; but only with respect unto work and order , whereof we shall treat distinctly . the first sort of officers in the church are bishops or elders ; concerning whom there have been mighty contentions in the late ages of the church . the principles we have hitherto proceeded on , discharge us from any especial interest or concernment in this controversy . for if there be no church of divine or apostolical constitution , none in being in the second or third centuries , but only a particular congregation , the foundation of that contest which is about preheminence and power in the same person over many churches , falls to the ground . indeed , strife about power , superiority , and jurisdiction over one another , amongst those who pretend to be ministers of the gospel , is full of scandal . it started early in the church ; was extinguished by the lord christ in his apostles ; rebuked by the apostles in all others ; yet through the pride , ambition and avarice of men , hath grown to be the stain and shame of the church in most ages . for neither the sense of the authority of christ forbidding such ambitious designings , nor the proposal of his own example in this particular case ; nor the experience of their own insufficiency for the least part of the work of the gospel-ministry , have been able to restrain the minds of men from coveting after and contending for a prerogative in church-power over others . for though this ambition , and all the fruits or rewards of it , are laid under a severe interdict by our lord jesus christ , yet when men ( like achan ) saw the wedge of gold , and the goodly babylonish garment , that they thought to be in power , domination and wealth , they coveted them , and took them , to the great disturbance of the church of god. if men would but a little seriously consider , what there is in that care of souls , even of all them over whom they pretend church-power , rule or jurisdiction ; and what it is to give an account concerning them before the judgment seat of christ , it may be it would abate of their earnestness in contending for the enlargement of their cures . the claim of episcopacy , as consisting in a rank of persons distinct from the office of presbyters , is managed with great variety . it is not agreed whether they are distinct in order above them , or only as unto a certain degree among them of the same order . it is not determined , what doth constitute that pretended distinct order , nor wherein that degree of preheminence in the same order , doth consist , nor what basis it stands upon . it is not agreed whether this order of bishops , hath any church-power appropriated unto it , so as to be acted singly by themselves alone , without the concurrence of the presbyters ; or how far that concurrence is necessary in all acts of church-order or power . there are no bounds or limits of the diocesses which they claim the rule in and over , as churches whereunto they are peculiarly related , derived either from divine institution , or tradition , or general rules of reason respecting both or either of them ; or from the consideration of gifts and abilities , or any thing else wherein church-order or edification is concerned . those who plead for diocesan episcopacy , will not proceed any farther , but only that there is and ought to be a superiority in bishops over presbyters in order or degree . but whether this must be over presbyters in one church only , or in many distinct churches ; whether it must be such , as not only hinders them utterly from the discharge of any of the duties of the pastoral office , towards the most of them whom they esteem their flocks , and necessitates them unto a rule by unscriptural church-officers , laws and power , they suppose doth not belong unto their cause ; whereas indeed the weight and moment of it , doth lie in and depend on these things . innumerable other uncertainties , differences and variances there are about this singular episcopacy , which we are not at present concern'd to enquire into , nor shall i insist on any of those which have been already mentioned . but yet , because it is necessary unto the clearing of the evangelical pastoral office , which is now under consideration ; unto what hath been pleaded before about the non institution of any churches beyond particular congregations , which is utterly exclusive of all pretences of the present episcopacy , i shall briefly , as in a diversion , add the arguments which undeniably prove , that in the whole new testament , bishops and presbyters , or elders , are every way the same persons , in the same office , have the same function , without distinction in order or degree ; which also , as unto the scripture , the most learned advocates of prelacy begin to grant . . the apostle describing what ought to be the qualifications of presbyters or elders , gives this reason of it , because a bishop must be so , tit. . , , . ordain elders in every city , if any be blameless , &c. for a bishop must be blameless . he that would prove of what sort a presbyter that is to be ordained so , ought to be , gives this reason for it , that such a bishop ought to be , intends the same person and office by presbyter and bishop , or there is no congruity of speech , or consequence of reason in what he asserts . to suppose that the apostle doth not intend the same persons , and the same office by presbyters and bishops in the same place , is to destroy his argument , and render the context of his discourse unintelligible . he that will say , that if you make a justice of peace or a constable , he must be magnanimous , liberal , full of clemency and courage , for so a king ought to be , will not be thought to argue very wisely . yet such is the argument here , if by elders and bishops , distinct orders and offices are intended . . there were many bishops in one city in one particular church , phil. . . to all the saints that are at philippi , with the bishops and deacons . that the church then at philippi was one particular church or congregation was proved before . but to have many bishops in the same church , whereas the nature of the episcopacy pleaded for , consists in the superiority of one over the presbyters of many churches , is absolutely inconsistent . such bishops , whereof there may be many in the same church , of the same order , equal in power and dignity with respect unto office , will easily be granted ; but then they are presbyters as well as bishops . there will , i fear , be no end of this contest , because of the prejudices and interests of some ; but that the identity of bishops and presbyters should be more plainly expressed , can neither be expected nor desired . . the apostle being at miletus , sent to ephesus for the elders of the church to come unto him , that is the elders of the church at ephesus , as hath been elsewhere undeniably demonstrated , act. . , . unto these elders he says , take heed unto your selves , and to all the flock , over which the holy ghost hath made you bishops , to feed the church of god , ver . . if elders and bishops be not the same persons , having the same office , the same function and the same duties , and the same names , it is impossible , so far as i understand , how it should be expressed . for these elders are they whom the holy ghost made bishops ; they were many of them in the same church ; their duty it was to attend unto the flock ; and to feed the church , which comprize all the duties , the whole function of elders and bishops , which must therefore be the same . this plain testimony can no way be evaded by pretences and conjectures unwritten and uncertain ; the only answer unto it , is , it was indeed so then , but it was otherwise afterwards ; which some now betake themselves unto . but these elders were either elders only and not bishops ; or bishops only and not elders ; or the same persons were elders and bishops , as is plainly affirmed in the words . the latter is that which we plead . if the first be asserted , then was there no bishop then at ephesus ; for these elders had the whole oversight of the flock : if the second , then were there no elders at all , which is no good exposition of those words , that paul called unto him the elders of the church . . the apostle peter writes unto the elders of the churches , that they should feed the flock , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , taking the oversight , or exercising the office and function of bishops over them , and that not as lords but as ensamples ( of humility , obedience and holiness ) to the whole flock , pet. . , , . those on whom it is incumbent to feed the flock , and to superintend over it , as those who in the first place are accountable unto jesus christ , are bishops ; and such as have no other bishop over them , unto whom this charge should be principally committed . but such , according unto this apostle , are the elders of the church . wherefore , those elders and bishops are the same . and such were the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the guides of the church at jerusalem , whom the members of it were bound to obey , as those that did watch for , and were to give an account of their souls . heb. . . . the substance of these and all other instances or testimonies of the same kind , is this ; those whose names are the same equally common and applicable unto them all , whose function is the same , whose qualifications and characters are the same , whose duties , account and reward are the same , concerning whom there is in no one place of scripture the least mention of inequality , disparity or preference in office among them , they are essentially and every way the same . that thus it is with the elders and bishops in the scripture cannot modestly be denied . i do acknowledge that where a church is greatly encreased , so as that there is a necessity of many elders in it for its instruction and rule , that decency and order do require , that one of them do in the management of all church affairs preside , to guide and direct the way and manner thereof . so the presbyters at alexandria did choose one from among themselves that should have the preheminence of a president among them . whether the person that is so to preside , be directed unto by being first converted or first ordained , or on the account of age , or of gifts and abilities , whether he continue for a season only , and then another be deputed unto the same work , or for his life , are things in themselves indifferent , to be determined according unto the general rules of reason and order , with respect unto the edification of the church . i shall never oppose this order , but rather desire to see it in practice ; namely , that particular churches were of such an extent , as necessarily to require many elders both teaching and ruling for their instruction and government ; for the better observation of order and decency in the publick assemblies ; the fuller representation of the authority committed by jesus christ unto the officers of his church ; the occasional instruction of the members in lesser assemblies , which as unto some ends may be stated also , with the due attendance unto all other means of edification and watching , inspecting , warning , admonishing , exhorting , and the like ; and that among these elders one should be chosen by themselves , with the consent of the church , not into a new order , not into a degree of authority above his brethren , but only unto his part of the common work in a peculiar manner , which requires some kind of precedency . hereby no new officer , no new order of officers , no new degree of power or authority is constituted in the church ; only the work and duty of it is cast into such an order , as the very light of nature doth require . but there is not any intimation in the scripture of the least imparity or inequality , in order , degree or authority , among officers of the same sort , whether extraordinary or ordinary . the apostles were all equal ; so were the evangelists , so were elders or bishops , and so were deacons also . the scripture knows no more of an arch-bishop , such as all diocesan bishops are , nor an arch-deacon , than of an arch-apostle , or of an arch-evangelist , or an arch-prophet . howbeit , it is evident , that in all their assemblies , they had one who did preside in the manner before described , which seems among the apostles to have been the prerogative of peter . the brethren also of the church may be so multiplied , as that the constant meeting of them all in one place may not be absolutely best for their edification . howbeit , that on all the solemn occasions of the church whereunto their consent is necessary , they did of old and ought still , to meet in the same place for advise , consultation and consent , as was proved before . this is so fully expressed and exemplified in the two great churches of jerusalem and antioch , act. . that it cannot be gain-said . when paul and barnabas , sent by the brethren or church at antioch ( v. , . ) were come to jerusalem , they were received by the church , as the brethren are called in distinction from the apostles and elders , v. . so when the apostles and elders assembled to consider of the case proposed unto them , the whole multitude of the church , that is the brethren assembled with them , v. , . neither were they mute persons , meer auditors and spectators in the assembly , but they concurred both in the debate and determination of the question ; insomuch as they are expresly joined with the apostles and elders in the advice given , ver . , . and when paul and barnabas returned unto antioch , the multitude unto whom the letter of the church at jerusalem was directed , came together about it , ver . . . unless this be observed the primitive-church-state is overthrown : but i shall return from this digression . the first officer or elder of the church is the pastor . a pastor , is the elder that feeds and rules the flock , pet. . . that is , who is its teacher and its bishop ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , feed , taking the oversight . it is not my present design nor work to give a full account of the qualifications required in persons to be called unto this office ; nor of their duty and work , with the qualities or vertues to be exercised therein . it would require a large discourse to handle them practically , and it hath been done by others . it were to be wished , that what is of this kind expressed in the rule , and which the nature of the office doth indispensably require , were more exemplified in practice than it is . but some things relating unto this officer and his office that are needful to be well stated , i shall treat concerning . the name of a pastor or shepherd is metaphorical . it is a denomination suited unto his work , denoting the same office and person with a bishop or elder , spoken of absolutely without limitation unto either teaching or ruling . and it seems to be used or applied unto this office , because it is more comprehensive of , and instructive in all the duties that belong unto it , than any other name whatever ; nay , than all of them put together . the grounds and reasons of this metaphor , or whence the church is called a flock , and whence god termeth himself the shepherd of the flock ; whence the sheep of this flock are committed unto christ , whereon he becomes the good shepherd that lays down his life for the sheep , and the prince of shepherds ; what is the interest of men in a participation of this office , and what their duty thereon , are things well worth the consideration of them who are called unto it . hirelings , yea , wolves and dumb dogs , do in many places take on themselves to be shepherds of the flock , by whom it is devoured and destroyed . whereas therefore this name or appellation is taken from , and includes in it love , care , tenderness , watchfulness in all the duties of going before , preserving , feeding , defending the flock , the sheep and the lambs , the strong , the weak and diseased , with accountableness as servants unto the chief shepherd , it was generally disused in the church ; and those of bishops or overseers , guides , presidents , elders which seem to include more of honour and authority , were retained in common use ; that though one of them , at last , namely that of bishops , with some elating compositions and adjuncts of power , obtained the preheminence . out of the corruption of these compositions and additions in arch-bishops , metropolitans , patriarchs , and the like , brake forth the cockatrice of the church , that is the pope . but this name is by the holy ghost appropriated unto the principal ministers of christ in his church , ephes. . . and under that name they were promised unto the church of old , jerem. . . and the work of these pastors , is to feed the flock committed to their charge as it is constantly required of them , act. . . pet. . . of pastoral feeding there are two parts . ( . ) teaching or instruction . ( . ) rule or discipline . unto these two heads may all the acts and duties of a shepherd toward his flock be reduced . and both are intended in the term of feeding , chron. . . chap. . . jer. . . mic. . . chap. . . zech. . . act. . . joh. . . pet. . , &c. wherefore he who is the pastor , is the bishop , the elder , the teacher of the church . these works of teaching and ruling may be distinct in several officers , namely of teachers and rulers ; but to divide them in the same office of pastors , that some pastors should feed by teaching only , but have no right to rule by virtue of their office ; and some should attend in exercise unto rule only , not esteeming themselves obliged to labour continually in feeding the flock , is almost to overthrow this office of christs designation , and to set up two in the room of it , of mens own projection . of the call of men unto this office , so many things have been spoken and written by others at large , that i shall only insist , and that very briefly , on some things which are either of the most important consideration , or have been omitted by others : as , . unto the call of any person unto this office of a pastor in the church , there are certain qualifications previously required in him , disposing and making him fit for that office. the outward call is an act of the church , as we shall shew immediately . but therein is required an obediential acting of him also who is called . neither of these can be regular , neither can the church act according to rule and order , nor the person called act in such a due obedience , unless there are in him some previous indications of the mind of god , designing the person to be called by such qualifications , as may render him meet and able for the discharge of his office and work. for ordinary vocation is not a collation of gracious spiritual abilities suiting and making men meet for the pastoral office : but it is the communication of right and power for the regular use and exercise of gifts and abilities received antecedently unto that call , unto the edification of the church , wherein the office it self doth consist . and if we would know what these qualifications and endowments are for the substance of them , we may learn them in their great example and pattern , our lord jesus christ himself . our lord jesus christ being the good shepherd , whose the sheep are , the shepherd and bishop of our souls ; the chief shepherd , did design in the undertaking and exercise of his pastoral office , to give a type and example unto all those who are to be called unto the same office under him . and if there be not a conformity unto him herein , no man can assure his own conscience or the church of god , that he is or can be lawfully called unto this office. the qualifications of christ unto , and the gracious qualities of his mind and soul in the discharge of his pastoral office , may be referred unto four heads . . that furniture with spiritual gifts and abilities by the communication of the holy ghost unto him , in an unmeasurable fulness , whereby he was fitted for the discharge of his office. this is expressed with respect unto his undertaking of it , isa. . , . chap. . , , . luk. . . herein was he anointed with the oyl of gladness above his fellows , heb. . . but this unction of the spirit is in a certain measure required in all who are called , or to be called unto the pastoral office , ephes. . . that there are spiritual powers , gifts and abilities required unto the gospel ministry , i have at large declared in another treatise , as also what they are . and where there are none of these spiritual abilities which are necessary unto the edification of the church in the administration of gospel ordinances , as in prayer , preaching , and the like , no outward call or order can constitute any man an evangelical pastor . as unto particular persons i will not contend , as unto an absolute nullity in the office by reason of their deficiency in spiritual gifts , unless it be gross , and such as renders them utterly useless unto the edification of the church . i only say , that no man can in an orderly way and manner be called or set apart unto this office , in whom there are not some indications of gods designation of him thereunto by his furniture with spiritual gifts , of knowledge , wisdom , understanding and utterance for prayer and preaching , with other ministerial duties , in some competent measure . . compassion and love to the flock , were gloriously eminent in this great shepherd of the sheep . after other evidences hereof , he gave them that signal confirmation in laying down his life for them . this testimony of his love he insists upon himself , joh. . and herein also his example ought to lie continually before the eyes of them who are called unto the pastoral office. their entrance should be accompanied with love to the souls of men ; and if the discharge of their office be not animated with love unto their flocks , wolves or hirelings , or thieves they may be , but shepherds they are not . neither is the glory of the gospel-ministry more lost or defaced in any thing , or by any means , than by the evidence that is given among the most , of an inconformity unto jesus christ in their love unto the flock . alas ! it is scarce once thought of amongst the most of them , who in various degrees take upon them the pastoral office ; where are the fruits of it ? what evidence is given of it in any kind ? it is well , if some instead of laying down their own lives for them , do not by innumerable ways destroy their souls . . there is and was in this great shepherd a continual watchfulness over the whole flock to keep it , to preserve it , to feed , to lead and cherish it , to purify and cleanse it , until it be presented unspotted unto god. he doth never slumber nor sleep ; he watereth his vineyard every moment , keeps it night and day that none may hurt it ; looseth nothing of what is committed to him ; see is. . . i speak not distinctly of previous qualifications unto an outward call only , but with a mixture of those qualities and duties which are required in the discharge of this office. and herein also is the lord christ to be our example . and hereunto do belong , ( ) constant prayer for the flock . ( . ) diligence in the dispensation of the word , with wisdom as unto times , seasons , the state of the flock in general , their light knowledge , ways , walking , ignorance , temptations , trials , defections , weaknesses of all sorts , growth and decays , &c. ( . ) personal admonition , exhortation , consolation , instruction , as their particular cases do require . ( . ) all with a design to keep them from evil ; and to present them without blame before christ jesus at the great day . but these and things of the like nature , presenting themselves with some earnestness unto my mind , i shall at present discharge my self of the thoughts of them , hoping a more convenient place and season to give them a larger treat ; and somewhat yet farther shall be spoken of them in the next chapter . . zeal for the glory of god in his whole ministry , and in all the ends of it , had its continual residence in the holy soul of the great shepherd . hence it is declared in an expression intimating that it was inexpressible . the zeal of thy house hath eaten me up . this also must accompany the discharge of the pastoral office , or it will find no acceptance with him . and the want of it , is one of those things which hath filled the world with a dead , faithless , fruitless ministry . . as he was absolutely in himself holy , harmless , vndefiled , separate from sinners ; so a conformity unto him in these things , and that in some degree of eminency above others , is required in them who are called unto this office. again , none can or may take this office upon him , or discharge the duties of it , which are peculiarly its own , with authority , but he who is called and set apart thereunto according to the mind of jesus christ. the continuation of all church-order and power , of the regular administration of all sacred ordinances , yea , of the very being of the church as it is organical , depends on this assertion . some deny the continuation of the office it self , and of those duties which are peculiar unto it , as the administration of the sacraments . some judge , that persons neither called nor set apart unto this office , may discharge all the duties and the whole work of it ; some , that a temporary delegation of power unto any by the church , is all the warranty is necessary for the undertaking and discharge of this office. many have been the contests about these things , occasioned by the ignorance and disorderly affections of some persons . i shall briefly represent the truth herein with the grounds of it ; and proceed to the consideration of the call it self , which is so necessary . . christ himself in his own person , and by his own authority , was the author of this office. he gave it , appointed it , erected it in the church , by virtue of his sovereign power and authority , ephes. . , . cor. . . as he gave , appointed , ordained an extraordinary office of apostleship ; so he ordained , appointed and gave the ordinary office of pastorship or teaching . they have both the same divine original . . he appointed this office for continuance , or to abide in the church unto the consummation of all things , ephes. . . matth. . . and therefore he took order by his apostles , that for the continuation of this office , pastors , elders or bishops , should be called and ordained unto the care and discharge of it in all churches ; which was done by them accordingly , act. . , . chap. . . tim. . , . tit. . . wherein he gave rule unto all churches unto the end of the world , and prescribed them their duty . . on this office , and the discharge of it , he hath laid the whole weight of the order , rule and edification of his church , in his name and by virtue of his authority , act. . . col. . . tim. . . pet. . , , , , , . rev. . , , , , , &c. hereon a double necessity of the continuation of this office doth depend ; first , that which ariseth from the precept or command of it , which made it necessary to the church , on the account of the obedience which it owes to christ ; and secondly of its being the principal ordinary means of all the ends of christ in and towards his church . wherefore , although he can himself feed his church in the wilderness , where it is deprived of all outward instituted means of edification ; yet where this office fails through its neglect , there is nothing but disorder , confusion and destruction , that will ensue thereon ; no promise of feeding or edification . . the lord christ hath given commands unto the church , for obedience unto those who enjoy and exercise this office among them . now all these commands are needless and superfluous , nor can any obedience be yielded unto the lord christ in their observance , unless there be a continuation of this office. and the church loseth as much in grace and privilege , as it loseth in commands . for in obedience unto the commands of christ , doth grace in its exercise consist , tim. . . heb. . , . . this office is accompanied with power and authority , which none can take or assume to themselves . all power and authority , whether in things spiritual or temporal , which is not either founded in the law of nature , or collated by divine ordination , is usurpation and tyranny . no man can of himself take either sword. to invade an office which includes power and authority over others , is to disturb all right , natural , divine and civil . that such an authority is included in this office , is evident , ( . ) from the names ascribed unto them in whom it is vested ; as pastors , bishops , elders , rulers , all of them requiring of it . ( . ) from the work prescribed unto them , which is feeding by rule and teaching . ( . ) from the execution of church-power in discipline , or the exercise of the keys of the kingdom of heaven committed unto them . ( . ) from the commands given for obedience unto them which respect authority . ( . ) from their appointment to be the means and instruments of exerting the authority of christ in the church , which can be done no other way . . christ hath appointed a standing rule of the calling of men unto this office , as we shall see immediately . but if men may enter upon it , and discharge it , without any such call , that rule , with the way of the call prescribed , are altogether in vain . and there can be no greater affront unto the authority of christ in his church , than to act in it , in neglect of , or opposition unto the rule that he hath appointed for the exercise of power in it . . there is an accountable trust committed unto those who undertake this office. the whole flock , the ministry it self , the truths of the gospel as to the preservation of them all , are committed to them , col. . . tim. . . tim. . , , . act. . . pet. . , , , , . heb. . . they who must give an account . nothing can be more wicked or foolish , than for a man to intrude himself into a trust , which is not committed unto him . they are branded as profligately wicked , who attempt any such thing among men , which cannot be done without impudent falsification : and what shall he be esteemed who intrudes himself into the highest trust that any creature is capable off in the name of christ , and take upon him to give an account of its discharge at the last day , without any divine call or warranty ? . there are unto the discharge of this office especial promises granted and annexed of present assistances , and future eternal rewards , matth. . . pet. . . either these promises belong unto them who take this office on themselves without any call , or they do not . if they do not , then have they neither any especial assistance in their work , nor can expect any reward of their labours . if it be said they have an interest in them , then the worst of men may obtain the benefit of divine promises , without any divine designation . . the general force of the rule , heb. . . includes a prohibition of undertaking any sacred office without a divine call ; and so the instances of such prohibitions under the old testament , as unto the duties annexed unto an office , as in the case of vzziah invading the priesthood , or of taking a ministerial office without call or mission , as jerem. . , , . having respect unto the order of gods institutions , may be pleaded in this case . . whoever therefore takes upon him the pastoral office without a lawful outward call , doth take unto himself power and authority without any divine warranty , which is a foundation of all disorder and confusion ; interests himself in an accountable trust , no way committed unto him ; hath no promise of assistance in , or reward for his work , but ingageth in that which is destructive of all church-order , and consequently of the very being of the church it self . . yet there are three things that are to be annexed unto this assertion by way of limitation : as , ( . ) many things performed by virtue of office in a way of authority , may be performed by others not called to office , in a way of charity . such are the moral duties of exhorting , admonishing , comforting , instructing and praying with , and for one another . ( . ) spiritual gifts may be exercised unto the edification of others , without office-power , where order and opportunity do require it . but the constant exercise of spiritual gifts in preaching , with a refusal of undertaking a ministerial office , or without design so to do upon a lawful call , cannot be approved . ( . ) the rules proposed concern only ordinary cases , and the ordinary state of the church ; extraordinary cases are accompanied with a warranty in themselves for extraordinary actings and duties . . the call of persons unto the pastoral office is an act and duty of the church . it is not an act of the political magistrate , not of the pope , not of any single prelate , but of the whole church , unto whom the lord christ hath committed the keys of the kingdom of heaven . and indeed , although there be great differences about the nature and manner of the call of men unto this office , yet none who understand ought of these things , can deny , but that it is an act and duty of the church ; which the church alone is impowered by christ to put forth and exert . but this will more fully appear in the consideration of the nature and manner of this call of men unto the pastoral office , and the actings of the church therein . the call of persons unto the pastoral office in the church consists of two parts . ( . ) election , ( . ) ordination , as it is commonly called , or sacred separation by fasting and prayer . as unto the former , four things must be enquired into . ( . ) what is previous unto it or preparatory for it . ( . ) wherein it doth consist . ( . ) it s necessity , or the demonstration of its truth and institution . ( . ) what influence it hath into the communication of pastoral-office-power unto a pastor so chosen . . that which is previous unto it , is , the meetness of the person for his office and work , that is to be chosen . it can never be the duty of the church to call or choose an unmeet , an unqualified , an unprepared person unto this office. no pretended necessity , no outward motives can enable or warrant it so to do , nor can it by any outward act , whatever the rule or solemnity of it be , communicate ministerial authority unto persons utterly unqualified for , and uncapable of the discharge of the pastoral office according unto the rule of the scripture . and this hath been one great means of debasing the ministery , and almost ruining the church it self ; either by the neglect of those who suppose themselves entrusted with the whole power of ordination , or by impositions on them by secular power , and patrons of livings as they are called , with the stated regulation of their proceedings herein , by a defective law , whence there hath not been a due regard unto the antecedent preparatory qualifications of those who are called unto the ministry . two ways is the meetness of any one made known and to be judged of . ( . ) by an evidence given of the qualifications in him before-mentioned . the church is not to call or choose any one to office who is not known unto them ; of whose frame of spirit , and walking , they have not had some experience ; not a novice , or one lately come unto them . he must be one who by his ways and walking hath obtained a good report , even among them that are without , so far as he is known ; unless they be enemies or scoffers ; and one that hath in some good measure evidenced his faith , love and obedience unto jesus christ in the church . this is the chief trust that the lord christ hath committed unto his churches ; and if they are negligent herein , or if at all-adventures they will impose an officer in his house upon him without satisfaction of his meetness upon due enquiry , it is a great dishonour unto him , and provocation of him . herein principally are churches made the overseers of their own purity and edification . to deny them an ability of a right judgment herein , or a liberty for the use and exercise of it , is error and tyranny . but that flock which christ purchased and purified with his own blood , is thought by some to be little better than an herd of brute beasts . where there is a defect of this personal knowledge for want of opportunity , it may be supplied by testimonies of unquestionable authority . ( . ) by a trial of his gifts for edification . these are those spiritual endowments which the lord christ grants , and the holy spirit works in the minds of men , for this very end that the church may be profited by them , cor. . . and we must at present take it for granted , that every true church of christ , that is so in the matter and form of it , is able to judge in some competent measure what gifts of men are suited unto their own edification . but yet in making a judgment hereof , one directive means is the advice of other elders and churches , which they are obliged to make use off by virtue of the communion of churches , and the avoidance of offence in their walk in that communion . . as to the nature of this election , call or choice of a person known , tried , and judged , meetly qualified for the pastoral office , it is an act of the whole church , that is , of the fraternity with their elders , if they have any . for a pastor may be chosen unto a church which hath other teachers , elders , or officers already instated in it . in this case their concurrence in the choice intended , is necessary by way of common suffrage , not of authority or office-power . for election is not an act of authority , but of liberty and power , wherein the whole church in the fraternity is equal . if there be no officers stated in the church before , as it was with the churches in the primitive times , on the first ordination of elders among them , this election belongs unto the fraternity . . that therefore which we have now to prove , is this ; that it is the mind and will of jesus christ , that meet persons should be called unto the pastoral office ( or any other office in the church ) by the election and choice of the church it self whereunto they are called , antecedently unto a sacred solemn separation unto their respective offices : for , . under the old testament there were three ways whereby men were called unto office in the church . ( . ) they were so extraordinarily and immediately by the nomination and designation of god himself . so aaron was called unto the priesthood , and others afterwards , as samuel , to be prophets . ( . ) by a law of carnal generation ; so all the priests of the posterity of aaron succeeded into the office of the priesthood , without any other call . ( . ) by the choice of the people , which was the call of all the ordinary elders and rulers of the church , deut. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . give to your selves . it was required of the people , that they should in the first place , make a judgment on their qualifications for the office whereunto they were called . men known unto them for wise , understanding , righteous , walking in the fear of god , they were to look out , and then to present them unto moses for their separation unto office , which is election . it is true , that exod. . . it is said that moses chose the elders . but it is frequent in the scripture , that where any thing is done by many , where one is chief , that is ascribed indifferently either to the many , or to the chief director . so is it said , israel sent messengers , numbers , . . moses , speaking of the same things , says , i sent messengers , deut. . . so chron. . . they made peace with david and served him ; which is sam. . . they made peace with israel and served them . see also king. . . with chron. . . as also chron. . . with sam. . . and the same may be observed in other places . wherefore the people chose these elders under the conduct and guidance of moses , which directs us unto the right interpretation of act . . whereof we shall speak immediately . the first of these ways was repeated in the foundation of the evangelical church . christ himself was called unto his office by the father , through the unction of the spirit , isa. . heb. . and he himself called the apostles and evangelists , in whom that call ceased . the second ordinary way by the privilege of natural generation of the stock of the priests , was utterly abolished . the third way only remained , for the ordinary continuation of the church ; namely , by the choice and election of the church it self , with solemn separation and dedication by officers extraordinary or ordinary . the first instance of the choice of a church-officer had a mixture in it of the first and later way , in the case of matthias . as he was able to be a church-officer he had the choice and consent of the church ; as he was to be an apostle or an extraordinary officer , there was an immediate divine disposition of him into his office ; the latter to give him apostolical authority , the former to make him a president of the future actings of the church in the call of their officers . i say this being the first example and pattern of the calling of any person unto office in the christian church-state , wherein there was an interposition of the ordinary actings of men , is established as a rule and president not to be changed , altered or departed from , in any age of the church whatever . it is so , as unto what was of common right and equity , which belonged unto the whole church . and i cannot but wonder , how men durst ever reject and disanul this divine example and rule . it will not avail them to say , that it is only a matter of fact , and not a precept or institution that is recorded . for , ( . ) it is a fact left on record in the holy scripture for our instruction and direction . ( . ) it is an example of the apostles and the whole church proposed unto us , which in all things , not otherwise determined , hath the force of an institution . ( . ) if there was no more in it but this , that we have a matter of common right , determined and applied by the wisdom of the apostles , and the entire church of believers at that time in the world , it were an impiety to depart from it , unless in case of the utmost necessity . whereas , what is here recorded was in the call of an apostle , it strengthens the argument which hence we plead . for if in the extraordinary call of an apostle , it was the mind of christ , that the fraternity or multitude should have the liberty of their suffrage , how much more is it certainly his mind , that in the ordinary call of their own peculiar officers , in whom , under him , the concernment is their own only , that this right should be continued unto them ? the order of the proceeding of the church herein is distinctly declared . for , ( . ) the number of the church at that time , that is of the men , was about an hundred and twenty , v. . ( . ) they were assembled all together in one place , so as that peter stood up in the midst of them , v. . ( . ) peter in the name of the rest of the apostles , declares unto them the necessity of choosing one to be substituted in the room of judas , v. , , , , . ( . ) he limits the choice of him unto the especial qualification of being a meet witness of the resurrection of christ , unto those who constantly accompanied him with themselves from the baptism of john , that is , his being baptized by him , whereon he began his publick ministry . ( . ) among these they were left at their liberty to nominate any two , who were to be left unto the lot for a determination whether of them god designed unto the office. ( . ) hereon the whole multitude 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , appointed two ; that is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the men and brethren , unto whom peter spake , v. . did so . ( . ) the same persons to promote the work , prayed and gave forth their lots , v. . . ( ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 matthias was by the common suffrage of the whole church , reckoned unto the number of the apostles . i say not that these things were done by the disciples in distinction from peter and the rest of the apostles , but in conjunction with them . peter did nothing without them ; nor did they any thing without him . the exception of bellarmine and others , against this testimony , is , that it was a grant and a condescention in peter , and not a declaration of the right of the church ; that it was an extraordinary case ; that the determination of the whole was by lot ; are of no validity . the pretended concession of peter is a figment ; the case was so extraordinary , as to include in it all ordinary cases , for the substance of them . and although the ultimate determination of the individual person , which was necessary unto his apostleship , was immediately divine by lot ; yet here is all granted unto the people , in their choosing and appointing two , in their praying , in their casting lots , in their voluntary opprobatory suffrage , that is desired . this blessed example given us by the wisdom of the apostles , yea , of the spirit of god in them , being eminently suited unto the nature of the thing it self , as we shall see immediately , compliant with all other directions , and apostolical examples in the like case , is rather to be followed , than the practice of some degenerate churches , who to cover the turpitude of acting in deserting this example and rule , do make use of a mock-shew and pretence of that which really they deny , reject and oppose . the second example we have of the practice of the apostles in this case , whereby the preceding rule is confirmed , is given us , act. . in the election of the deacons . had there ensued after the choice of matthias an instance of a diverse practice , by an exclusion of the consent of the people , the former might have been evaded , as that which was absolutely extraordinary , and not obliging unto the church . but this was the very next instance of the call of any church-officer ; and it was the first appointment of any ordinary officers in the christian church . for it falling out in the very year of christs ascension , there is no mention of any ordinary elders distinct from the apostles , ordained in that church . for all the apostles themselves yet abiding there for the most part of this time , making only some occasional excursions unto other places , were able to take care of the rule of the church , and the preaching of the word . they are indeed mentioned as those who were well known in the church not long afterwards , chap. . . but the first instance of the call or ordinary teaching-elders or pastors is not recorded . that of deacons is so by reason of the occasion of it . and we may observe concerning it unto our purpose , . that the institution of the office it self was of apostolical authority , and that fulness of church-power wherewith they were furnished by jesus christ. . that they did not exert that authority but upon such reasons of it , as were satisfactory to the church ; which they declare , v. . . that the action is ascribed to the twelve in general , without naming any person who spake for the rest ; which renders the pretence of the romanists from the former place , where peter is said to have spoken unto the disciples , whereon they would have the actings of the church which ensued thereon , to have been by his concession and grant , not of their own right , altogether vain . for the rest of the apostles were as much interested and concerned in what was then spoken by peter , as they were at this time , when the whole is ascribed unto the twelve . . that the church was greatly multiplied that time , on the account of the conversion unto the faith recorded in the foregoing chapter . it is probable indeed , that many , yea , the most of them were returned unto their own habitations ; for the next year there were churches in all judea , galilee and samaria , chap. . . and peter went about throughout all quarters to visit the saints that dwelt in them , ver . . of whose conversion we read nothing but that which fell out at jerusalem at pentecost ; but a great multitude they were , v. , . . this whole multitude of the church , that is the brethren , v. . assembled in one place , being congregated by the apostles , v. . who would not ordain any thing wherein they were concerned , without their own consent . . they judged on the whole matter proposed unto them , and gave their approbation thereof , before they entred upon the practice of it , v. . the saying pleased the whole multitude . . the qualifications of the persons to be chosen unto the office intended , are declared by the apostles , v. . of honest report , full of the holy ghost and wisdom . . these qualities the multitude were to judge upon , and so absolutely of the meetness of any for this office. . the choice is wholly committed and left unto them by the apostles , as that which of right did belong unto them ; look you out among you ; which they made use off , choosing them unto the office by their common suffrage , v. . . having thus chosen them , they presented them as their chosen officers unto the apostles , to be by them set apart unto the exercise of their office by prayer and imposition of hands , v. . it is impossible , there should be a more evident convincing instance and example of the free choice of ecclesiastical officers by the multitude or fraternity of the church , than is given us herein . nor was there any ground or reason why this order and process should be observed , why the apostles would not themselves nominate and appoint persons whom they saw and knew meet for this office , to receive it , but that it was the right and liberty of the people , according to the mind of christ , to choose their own officers , which they would not abbridge , nor infringe . so was it then , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saith chrysostom on the place , and so it ought now to be ; but the usage began then to decline . it were well if some would consider how the apostles at that time treated that multitude of the people , which is so much now despised , and utterly excluded from all concern in church affairs , but what consist in servile subjection . but they have , in this pattern and president for the future ordering of the calling of meet persons to office in the church , their interest , power , and privilege secured unto them , so as that they can never justly be deprived of it . and if there were nothing herein , but only a record of the wisdom of the apostles in managing church affairs , it is marvellous to me , that any who would be thought to succeed them in any part of their trust and office , should dare to depart from the example set before them by the holy ghost in them , preferring their own ways and inventions above it . i shall ever judge , that there is more safety , in a strict adherence unto this apostolical practice and example , than in a compliance with all the canons of councils or churches afterwards . the only objection usually insisted on , that is by bellarmine and those that follow him , is , that this being the election of deacons to manage the alms of the church , that is somewhat of their temporals , nothing can thence be concluded unto the right or way of calling bishops , pastors or elders , who are to take care of the souls of the people . they may indeed be able to judge of the fitness of them who are to be entrusted with their purses , or what they are willing to give out of them ; but it doth not thence follow , that they are able to judge of the fitness of those who are to be their spiritual pastors , nor to have the choice of them . nothing can be weaker than this pretence or evasion . for , ( . ) the question is concerning the calling of persons unto office in the church in general , whereof we have here a rule , whereunto no exception is any way entred . ( . ) this cannot be fairly pleaded by them who appoint deacons to preach , baptize and officiate publickly in all holy things , excepting only the administration of the eucharist . ( . ) if the people are meet and able to judge of them who are of honest report , and full of the holy ghost and wisdom , which is here required of them , they are able to judge who are meet to be their pastors . ( . ) the argument holds strongly on the other side ; namely , that if it be right and equal , if it be of divine appointment and apostolical practice , that the people should choose those who were to collect and distribute their charitable benevolence because of their concernment therein , much more are they to enjoy the same liberty , right and privilege in the choice of their pastors , unto whom they commit the care of their souls , and submit themselves unto their authority in the lord. . accordingly they did use the same liberty in the choice of their elders , act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : that is , say erasmus , vatablus , beza , all our old english translations , appointing , ordaining , creating elders by election or the suffrage of the disciples , having prayed with fastings . the whole order of the sacred separation of persons qualified unto the office of the ministry , that is , to be bishops , elders or pastors , is here clearly represented . for , ( . ) they were chosen by the people ; the apostles who were present , namely paul and barnabas presiding in the action , directing of it and confirming that by their consent with them . ( . ) a time of prayer and fasting was appointed for the action , or discharge of the duty of the church herein . ( . ) when they were so chosen , the apostles present solemnly prayed , whereby their ordination was compleat . and those who would have the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here mentioned to be , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or an authoritative imposition of hands , wherein this ordination did consist , do say there is an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the words ; that is they feign a disorder in them , to serve their own hypothesis . for they suppose that their compleat ordination was effected , before there was any prayer with fasting ; for by imposition of hands in their judgment , ordination is compleated ; so bellarmine , a lapide , on the place , with those that follow them . but first to pervert the true signification of the word , and then to give countenance unto that wresting of it by assigning a disorder unto the words of the whole sentence , and that such a disorder as makes in their judgment a false representation of the matter of fact related , is a way of the interpretation of scripture which will serve any turn . ( . ) this was done in every church , or in every congregation , as tindal renders the word ; namely , in all the particular congregations that were gathered in those parts ; for that collection and constitution did always precede the election and ordination of their officers , as is plain in this place ; as also tit. . . so far is it from truth , that the being of churches dependeth on the successive ordination of their officers , that the church essentially considered , is always antecedent unto their being and call. but because it is some mens interest to entangle things plain and clear enough in themselves , i shall consider the objections unto this rendition of the words . the whole of it lies against the signification , use and application of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . now although we do not here argue meerly from the signification of the word , but from the representation of the matter of fact made in the context ; yet i shall observe some things sufficient for the removal of that objection : as , . the native signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by virtue of its composition , is , to lift up , or stretch forth the hands , or an hand . and hereunto the lxx have respect , isa. . . where they render 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the putting forth of the finger , which is used in an ill sence , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor is it ever used in any other signification . . the first constant use of it in things political or civil , and so consequently ecclesiastical , is to choose , elect , design or create any person an officer , magistrate or ruler , by suffrage , or common consent of those concerned . and this was usually done with making bare the hand and arm , with lifting up , as aristophanes witnesseth . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he is a great stranger unto these things , who knoweth not that among the greeks , especially the athenians , from whom the use of this word is borrowed or taken , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was an act 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the whole assembly of the people in the choice of their officers and magistrates . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is by common suffrage to decree and determine of any thing , law , or order ; and when applied unto persons , it signifies their choice and designation to office. so is it used in the first sence by demosthenes , orat. in timoch . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the people confirmed my sayings by their suffrage : and in the other , philip. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; neither the senate , nor the people choosing him to his office. so is the passive verb used to be created by suffrages . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was the act of choosing , whose effect was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the determining vote or suffrage . porrexerunt manus , psephisma notum est , saith cicero , speaking of the manner of the greeks . and when there was a division in choice , it was determined by the greater suffrage thucid. lib. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . as many instances of this nature may be produced , as there are reports of calling men unto magistracy by election in the greek historians . and all the farther compositions of the word do signifie to choose , confirm , or to abrogate by common suffrages . . the word is but once more used in the new testament , cor. . . where it plainly signifies election and choice of a person to an employment , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : he was chosen of the churches to travel with us . . it is acknowledged , that after this was the common use of the word , it was applied to signifie the thing it self , and not the manner of doing it . hence it is used sometimes for the obtaining or collation of authority , or dignity or magistracy , any manner of way , though not by election . to appoint , to create . but this was by an abusive application of the word , to express the thing it self intended , without regard unto its signification and proper use . why such a use of it should be here admitted , no reason can be given . for in all other places on such occasions , the apostles did admit and direct the churches to use their liberty in their choice . so the apostles and elders , with the whole church , sent chosen men of their own company to antioch , such as they chose by common suffrage for that end ; so again ver . . i will send whom you shall approve , cor. . . the church chose them , the apostle sent him who was chosen by the church to be our companion , cor. . . look out from among your selves , act. . if on all these and the like occasions , the apostles did guide and direct the people in their right and use of their liberty , as unto the election of persons unto offices and employments , when the churches themselves are concerned , what reason is there to depart from the proper and usual signification of the word in this place , denoting nothing but what was the common practice of the apostles on the like occasions ? . that which alone is objected hereunto by bellarmine and others who follow him , and borrow their whole in this case from him , namely that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 grammatically agreeing with and regulated by paul and barnabas , denotes their act , and not any act of the people , is of no force . for , ( . ) paul and barnabas did preside in the whole action , helping , ordering and disposing of the people in the discharge of their duty , as is meet to be done by some on all the like occasions . and therefore it is truly said of them , that they appointed elders by the suffrage of the people . ( . ) i have shewed instances before out of the scripture , that when a thing is done by the whole people , it is usual to ascribe it unto him or them who were chief therein , as elsewhere the same thing is ascribed unto the whole people . the same authors contend that the liberty of choosing their own officers or elders , such as it was , was granted unto them or permitted by way of condescention for a season ; and not made use of by virtue of any right in them thereunto . but this permission is a meer imagination . it was according to the mind of christ , that the churches should choose their own elders , or it was not . if it were not , the apostles would not have permitted it ; and if it were , they ought to ordain it , and practise according to it , as they did . nor is such a constant apostolical practice proposed for the direction of the church in all ages , to be ascribed unto such an original as condescension and permission . yea it is evident , that it arose from the most fundamental principles of the constitution and nature of the gospel churches , and was only a regular pursuit and practice of them : for , . the calling of bishops , pastors , elders , is an act of the power of the keys of the kingdom of heaven . but these keys are originally and properly given unto the whole church , unto the elders of it only ministerially ; and as unto exercise pastors are eyes to the church : but god and nature design in the first place , sight to the whole body , to the whole person , thereunto it is granted both subjectively and finally , but actually it is peculiarly seated in the eye . so is it in the grant of church-power , it is given to the whole church , though to be exercised only by its elders . that the grant of the keys unto peter was in the person and as the representative of the whole confessing church , is the known judgment of austin and a multitude of divines that follow him . so he fully expresseth himself , tractat. . in johan . peter the apostle bare in a general figure the person of the church . for as unto what belonged unto himself , he was by nature one man , by grace one christian , and of special more abounding grace , one and the chief apostle . but when it was said unto him , i will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven , &c. he signified the whole church , &c. again , the church which is founded in christ , received from him in ( the person of ) peter , the keys of the kingdom of heaven , which is the power of binding and loosing . unto whom these keys are granted , they according to their distinct interests in that grant , have the right and power of calling their bishops , pastors or elders ; for in the exercise of that trust and power , it doth consist . but this is made unto the whole church . and as there are in a church already constituted several sorts of persons , as some are elders , others are of the people only , this right resideth in them , and is acted by them according to their respective capacities , as limited by the light of nature and divine institution , which is , that the election of them should belong unto the body of the people , and their authoritative designation or ordination unto the elders . and when in any place the supream magistrate is a member or part of the church , he hath also his : peculiar right herein . that the power of the keys is thus granted originally and fundamentally unto the whole church , is undeniably confirmed by two arguments . . the church it self is the wife , the spouse , the bride , the queen of the husband and king of the church christ jesus , psal. . . john . . revel . . . chap. . . matth. . , , . other wife christ hath none , nor hath the church any other husband . now to whom should the keys of the house be committed but unto the bride ? there is , i confess , another who claims the keys to be his own , but withal , he makes himself the head and husband of the church , proclaiming himself , not only to be an adulterer with that harlot which he calleth the church , but a tyrant also , in that pretending to be her husband he will not trust her with the keys of his house , which christ hath done with his spouse . and whereas by the canon law every bishop is the husband or spouse of his diocesan church , for the most part they commit an open rape upon the people , taking them without their consent ; at least are not chosen by them , which yet is essential unto a lawful marriage . and the bride of christ comes no otherwise so to be , but by the voluntary choice of him to be her husband . for the officers or rulers of the church , they do belong unto it as hers , cor. . . . and stewards in the house , cor. . . the servants of the church for jesus sake , cor. . . if the lord christ have the keys of the kingdom of heaven , that is , of his own house , heb. . if the church it self be the spouse of christ , the mother of the family , psal. . . the bride , the lambs wife ; and if all the officers of the church be but stewards and servants in the house and unto the family ; if the lord christ do make a grant of these keys unto any , whereon the disposal of all things in this house and family doth depend , the question is , whether he hath originally granted them unto his holy spouse to dispose off according unto her judgment and duty , or unto any servants in the house , to dispose of her and all her concernments , at their pleasure ? . the power of the keys as unto binding and loosing , and consequently as unto all other acts thence proceeding , is expresly granted unto the whole church , matth. . , . if he shall neglect to hear them , tell the church ; but if he neglect to hear the church , let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican ; verily i say unto you , whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven ; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth , shall be loosed in heaven . what church it is that is here intended , we have proved before ; and that the church is intrusted with the power of binding and loosing . and what is the part of the body of the people herein , the apostle declares ; cor. . . cor. . . secondly , this right exemplified in apostolical practice , is comprehended in the commands given unto the church , or body of the people , with respect unto teachers and rulers of all sorts ; for unto them it is in a multitude of places given in charge that they should discern and try false prophets , fly from them ; try spirits , or such as pretend spiritual gifts or offices ; reject them who preach false doctrine , to give testimony unto them that are to be in office ; with sundry other things of the like nature , which all of them do suppose , or cannot be discharged without a right in them to choose the worthy , and reject the unworthy , as cyprian speaks . see matth. . . joh. ● . . gal. . . thess. . , , . joh. . . joh. . . what is objected hereunto from the unfitness and disability of the people , to make a right judgment concerning them who are to be their pastors and rulers , labours with a three-fold weakness . for , ( . ) it reflects dishonour upon the wisdom of christ in commanding them the observance and discharge of such duties , as they are no way meet for . ( . ) it proceeds upon a supposition of that degenerate state of churches in their members , as to light , knowledge , wisdom and holiness , which they are for the most part fallen into ; which must not be allowed to have the force of argument in it ; when it is to be lamented , and ought to be reformed . ( . ) it supposeth that there is no supply of assistance provided for the people , in the discharge of their duty to guide and direct them therein ; which is otherwise ; seeing the elders of the church wherein any such election is made , and those of other churches in communion with that church , are by the common advice and declaration of their judgment , to be assistant unto them . thirdly , the church is a voluntary society . persons otherwise absolutely free , as unto all the rules , laws and ends of such a society , do of their own wills and free choice coalesce into it . this is the original of all churches , as hath been declared . they gave their own selves to the lord , and unto us by the will of god , cor. . . herein neither by prescription , nor tradition , nor succession , hath any one more power or authority than another ; but they are all equal . it is gathered into this society meerly by the authority of christ ; and where it is so collected , it hath neither right , power , privilege , rules nor bonds as such , but what are given , prescribed and limited by the institution and laws of christ. moreover , it abides and continues on the same grounds and principles , as whereon it was collected , namely , the wills of the members of it subjected unto the commands of christ. this is as necessary unto its present continuance in all its members , as it was in its first plantation . it is not like the political societies of the world , which being first established by force or consent , bring a necessity on all that are born in them and under them , to comply with their rule and laws . for men may , and in many cases ought to submit unto the disposal of temporal things , in a way , it may be , not convenient for them , which they judge not well off , and which in many things is not unto their advantage . and this may be just and equal , because the special good which every one would aim at , being not absolutely so , may be out-balanced by a general good , nor alterable , but by the prejudice of that which is good in particular . but with reference unto things spiritual and eternal it is not so . no man can by any previous law be concluded as unto his interest in such things ; nor is there any general good to be attained by the loss of any of them . none therefore can coalesce in such a society , or adhere unto it , or be any way belonging unto it , but by his own free choice and consent . and it is enquired , how it is possible that any rule , authority , power or office , should arise or be erected in such a society ? we speak of that which is ordinary ; for he by whom this church-state is erected and appointed , may and did appoint in it , and over it , extraordinary officers for a season . and we do suppose , that as he hath by his divine authority instituted and appointed that such societies shall be , that he hath made grant of privileges and powers to them proper and sufficient for this end ; as also that he hath given laws and rules , by the observance whereof , they may be made partakers of those privileges and powers , with a right unto their exercise . on these suppositions in a society absolutely voluntary , among those who in their conjunction into it , by their own consent , are every way equal , there can but three things be required unto the actual constitution of rule and office among them . and the first is , that there be some among them that are fitted and qualified for the discharge of such an office in a peculiar manner above others . this is previous unto all government , beyond that which is purely natural and necessary . principio rerum , gentium nationumque imperium penes reges erat ; quos ad fastigium hujus majestatis , non popularis ambitio , sed spectata inter bonos moderatio provehebat . just. so it was in the world , so it was in the church . praesident probati quique seniores , honorem istum non pretio sed testimonio adepti . tertull. this preparation and furniture of some persons with abilities and meet qualifications for office and work in the church , the lord christ hath taken on himself , and doth and will effect it in all generations . without this there can be neither office , nor rule , nor order in the church . . whereas , there is a new relation to be made or created between a pastor , bishop or elder , and the church , which was not before between them , ( a bishop and a church , a pastor and a flock are relata's ) it must be introduced at the same time by the mutual voluntary acts of one another , or of each party . for one of the relata can , as such , have no being or existence without the other . now this can no otherwise be , but by the consent and voluntary subjection of the church unto persons so antecedently qualified for office , according to the law and will of christ. for it cannot be done by the delegation of power and authority from any other superiour or equal unto them that do receive it . neither the nature of this power , which is uncapable of such a delegation , nor the relation unto christ of all those who are pastors of the church , will admit of an interposition of authority by way of delegation of power from themselves in other men , which would make them their ministers , and not christs ; nor is it consistent with the nature of such a voluntary society . this therefore can no way be done , but by free choice , election , consent or approbation . it cannot , i say , be so regularly . how far an irregularity herein may vitiate the whole call of a minister , we do not now enquire . now this choice or election doth not communicate a power from them that choose unto them that are chosen , as though such a power as that whereunto they are called , should be formally inherent in the choosers , antecedent unto such choice . for this would make those that are chosen to be their minister only ; and to act all things in their name , and by virtue of authority derived from them . it is only an instrumental , ministerial means to enstate them in that power and authority which is given unto such officers by the constitution and laws of christ , whose ministers thereon they are . these gifts , offices , and officers , being granted by christ unto the churches , ephes. . . where-ever there is a church called according to his mind , they do in and by their choice of them , submit themselves unto them in the lord , according unto all the powers and duties wherewith they are by him intrusted , and whereunto they are called . . it is required that persons so chosen , so submitted unto , be so solemnly separated , dedicated unto , and confirmed in their office by fasting and prayer . as this is consonant unto the light of nature , which directs unto a solemnity in the susception of publick officers ; whence proceeds the coronation of kings , which gives them not their title , but solemnly proclaims it , which on many accounts is unto the advantage of government ; so it is prescribed unto the church in this case by especial institution . but hereof i shall speak farther immediately . this order of calling men unto the pastoral office , namely by their previous qualifications for the ministry , whereby a general designation of the persons to be called is made by christ himself ; the orderly choice or election of him in a voluntary subjection unto him in the lord , according to the mind of christ , by the church it self ; followed with solemn ordination , or setting apart unto the office and discharge of it by prayer with fasting , all in obedience unto the commands and institution of christ , whereunto the communication of office-power and privilege , is by law-constitution annexed , is suited unto the light of reason , in all such cases , the nature of gospel societies in order or churches ; the ends of the ministry , the power committed by christ unto the church , and confirmed by apostolical practice and example . herein we rest , without any further dispute or limiting the formal cause of the communication of office-power unto any one act or duty of the church , or of the bishops or elders of it . all the three things mentioned are essential thereunto ; and when any of them are utterly neglected , where they are neither formally nor virtually , there is no lawful regular call unto the ministry according to the mind of christ. this order was a long time observed in the ancient church inviolate ; and the foot-steps of it may be traced through all ages of the church ; although it first gradually decayed , then was perverted and corrupted , until it issued ( as in the roman church ) in a pageant and shew , instead of the reality of the things themselves : for the trial and approbation of spiritual endowments previously necessary unto the call of any , was left unto the pedantick examination of the bishops domesticks , who knew nothing of them in themselves ; the election and approbation of the people was turned into a mock-shew in the sight of god and men , a deacon calling out , that if any had objections against him who was to be ordained , they should come forth and speak ; whereunto another cries out of a corner by compact , he is learned and worthy ; and ordination was esteemed to consist only in the outward sign of imposition of hands , with some other ceremonies annexed thereunto , whereby , without any other consideration , there ensued a flux of power from the ordainers unto the ordained . but from the beginning it was not so . and some few instances of the right of the people , and the exercise of it in the choice of their own pastors , may be touched on in our passage . clem. epist. ad corinth . affirms , that the apostles themselves appointed approved persons unto the office of the ministry , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by or with the consent or choice of the whole church . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is to enact by common consent ; which makes it somewhat strange , that a learned man should think that the right of the people in elections is excluded in this very place by clemens , from what is assigned unto the apostles in ordination . ignat . epist , ad philadelph . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , writing to the fraternity of the church , it becomes you , as a church of god , to choose or ordain a bishop . tertvll . apol . praesident probati quique seniores , honorem istum non pretio , sed testimonio adepti . the elders came unto their honour or office by the testimony of the people ; that is by their suffrage in their election . origen , in the close of his last book against celsus , discoursing expresly of the calling and constitution of churches or cities of god , speaking of the elders and rulers of them , affirms , that they are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , chosen to their office by the churches which they do rule . the testimony given by cyprian in sundry places unto this right of the people , especially in epist. . unto the elders and people of some churches in spain , is so known , so frequently urged and excepted against to so little purpose , as that it is no way needful to insist again upon it . some few things i shall only observe concerning , and out of that epistle : as , . it was not a single epistle of his own more ordinary occasions , but a determination upon a weighty question made by a synod of bishops or elders , in whose name , as well as that of cyprian , it was written and sent unto the churches who had craved their advice . . he doth not only assert the right of the people to choose worthy persons to be their bishops , and reject those that are unworthy ; but also industriously proves it so to be their right by divine institution and appointment . . he declares it to be the sin of the people , if they neglect the use and exercise of their right and power in rejecting and withdrawing themselves from the communion of vnworthy pastors , and choosing others in their room . . he affirms that this was the practice , not only of the churches of africk , but of those in most of the other provinces of the empire . some passages in his discourse , wherein all these things are asserted , i shall transcribe in the order wherein they lie in the epistle . nec sibi plebs blandiatur , quasi immunis esse a contagio delicti possit cum sacerdote peccatore communicans , & ad injustum & illicitum praepositi sui episcopatum consensum suum commodans . propter quod plebs obsequens praeceptis dominicis & deum metuens , a peccatore praeposito separare se debet ; nec se ad sacrilegi sacerdotis sacrificia miscere ; quando ipsa maxime habeat potestatem vel eligendi dignos sacerdotes , vel indignos recusandi ; quod & ipsum videmus de divina authoritate descendere . for this cause the people obedient to the commands of our lord , and fearing god , ought to separate themselves from a wicked bishop , nor mix themselves with the worship of a sacrilegious priest. for they principally have the power of choosing the worthy priests , and rejecting the unworthy ; which comes from divine authority or appointment ; as he proves from the old and new testament . nothing can be spoken more fully representing the truth which we plead for . he assigns unto the people a right and power of separating from unworthy pastors , of rejecting or deposing them , and that granted to them by divine authority . and this power of election in the people , he proves from the apostolical practice before insisted on . quod postea secundum divina magisteria observatur in actis apostolorum , quando in ordinando in locum judae episcopo , petrus ad plebem loquitur . surrexit , inquit , petrus in medio discentium , fuit autem turba in uno . nec hoc in episcoporum tantum & sacerdotum , sed in diaconorum ordinationibus observasse apostolos , de quo & ipso in actis eorum scriptum est . et convocarunt , inquit , duodecim , totam plebem discipulorum , & dixerunt eis , &c. according unto the divine commands the same course was observed in the acts of the apostles , whereof he gives instances in the election of matthias , act. . and of the deacons , chap. . and afterwards speaking of ordination , de vniversae fraternitatis suffragio , by the suffrage of the whole brotherhood of the church ; he says , diligenter de traditione divina , & apostolica observatione servandum est & tenendum apud nos quoque , ut fere per universas provincias tenetur : according to which divine tradition and apostolical practice , this custom is to be preserved and kept amongst us also , as it is almost through all the provinces . those who are not moved with his authority , yet , i think have reason to believe him in a matter of fact , of what was done every where , or almost every where , in his own days ; and they may take time to answer his reasons when they can , which comprize the substance of all that we plead in this case . but the testimonies in following ages given unto this right and power of the people in choosing their own church-officers , bishops and others , recorded in the decrees of councils , the writings of the learned men in them , the rescripts of popes , and constitutions of emperours , are so fully and faithfully collected by blondellus in the third part of his apology for the judgment of hierom about episcopacy , as that nothing can be added unto his diligence , nor is there any need of farther confirmation of the truth in this behalf . the pretence also of bellarmine , and others who follow him , and borrow ▪ their conceits from him , that this liberty of the people in choosing their own bishops and pastors , was granted unto them at first by way of indulgence or connivence ; and that being abused by them , and turned into disorder , was gradually taken from them , until it issued in that shameful mocking of god and man , which is in use in the roman church , when at the ordination of a bishop or priest one deacon makes a demand , whether the person to be ordained be approved by the people , and another answers out of a corner that the people approve him , have been so confuted by protestant writers of all sorts , that it is needless to insist any longer on them . indeed , the concessions that are made , that this ancient practice of the church , in the peoples choosing their own officers ( which to deny , is all one as to deny that the sun gives light at noon-day ) is , as unto its right , by various degrees transferred unto popes , patrons and bishops , with a representation in a meer pageantry , of the peoples liberty to make objections against them that are to be ordained , are as fair a concession of the gradual apostacy of churches from their original order and constitution , as need be desired . this power and right which we assign unto the people , is not to act it self only in a subsequent consent unto one that is ordained , in the acceptance of him to be their bishop or pastor . how far that may salve the defect and disorder of the omission of previous elections , and so preserve the essence of the ministerial call , i do not now enquire . but that which we plead for , is , the power and right of election to be exercised previously unto the solemn ordination or setting apart of any unto the pastoral office , communicative of office-power in its own kind unto the person chosen . this is part of that contest which for sundry ages filled most countries of europe with broils and disorders . neither is there yet an end put unto it . but in this present discourse we are not in the least concerned in these things . for our enquiry is what state and order of church-affairs is declared and represented unto us in the scripture . and therein there is not the least intimation of any of those things from whence this controversy did arise , and whereon it doth depend . secular endowments , jurisdictions , investiture , rights of presentation , and the like , with respect unto the evangelical pastoral office , or its exercise in any place , which are the subject of these contests , are foreign unto all things that are directed in the scriptures concerning them , nor can be reduced unto any thing that belongs unto them . wherefore , whether this jvs patronatvs be consistent with gospel-institutions ; whether it may be continued with respect unto lands , tythes and benefices ; or how it may be reconciled unto the right of the people in the choice of their own ecclesiastical officers , from the different acts , objects and ends required unto the one and the other , are things not of our present consideration . and this we affirm to be agreeable unto natural reason and equity , to the nature of churches in their institution and ends , to all authority and office-power in the church , necessary unto its edification , with the security of the consciences of the officers themselves , the preservation of due respect and obedience unto them , constituted by the institution of christ himself in his apostles , and the practice of the primitive church . wherefore , the utter despoiling of the church , of the disciples , of those gathered in church societies by his authority and command , of this right and liberty , may be esteemed a sacrilege of an higher nature , than sundry other things which are reproached as criminal under that name . and if any shall yet farther appear to justifie this deprivation of the right laid claim unto , and the exclusion of the people from their ancient possession with sobriety of argument and reason , the whole cause may be yet farther debated from principles of natural light and equity , from maxims of law and polity , from the necessity of the ends of church-order and power , from the moral impossibility of any other way of the conveyance of ecclesiastical office-power , as well as from evangelical institution and the practice of the first churches . it will be objected , i know , that the restoration of this liberty unto the people , will overthrow that jus patronatus , or right of presenting unto livings and preferments , which is established by law in this nation , and so under a pretence of restoring unto the people their right in common , destroy other mens undoubted rights in their own enclosures . but this election of the church , doth not actually and immediately instate the persons chosen in the office whereunto he is chosen ; nor give actual right unto its exercise . it is required moreover , that he be solemnly set apart unto his office in and by the church with fasting and prayer . that there should be some kind of peculiar prayer in the dedication of any unto the office of the ministry , is a notion that could never be obliterated in the minds of men concerned in these things , nor cast out of their practice . of what sort they have been amongst many we do not now enquire . but there hath been less regard unto the other duty , namely , that these prayers should be accompanied with fasting . but this also is necessary by virtue of apostolical example , act. . . the conduct of this work belongs unto the elders or officers of the church , wherein any one is to be so ordained . it did belong unto extraordinary officers whilst they were continued in the church . and upon the cessation of their office , it is devolved on the ordinary stated officers of the church . it is so , i say , in case there be any such officer before fixed in the church , whereunto any one is to be only ordained . and in case there be none , the assistance of pastors or elders of other churches may and ought to be desired , unto the conduct and regulation of the duty . it is needless to enquire what is the authoritative influence of this ordination , into the communication of office or office-power ; whilst it is acknowledged to be indispensably necessary and to belong essentially unto the call unto office. for when sundry duties , as these of election and ordination , are required unto the same end , by virtue of divine institution , it is not for me to determine what is the peculiar efficacy of the one or the other , seeing neither of them without the other , hath any at all . hereunto is added , as an external adjunct , imposition of hands significant of the persons so called to office , in and unto the church . for although it will be difficultly proved , that the use of this ceremony was designed unto continuance , after a cessation of the communication of the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost , whereof it was the sign and outward means , in extraordinary officers ; yet we do freely grant it unto the ordinary officers of the church ; provided that there be no apprehension of its being the sole authoritative conveyance of a successive flux of office-power ; which is destructive of the whole nature of the institution . and this may at present suffice , as unto the call of meet persons unto the pastoral office , and consequently any other office in the church . the things following are essentially necessary unto it , so as that authority and right to feed and rule in the church in the name of christ , as an officer of his house , that may be given unto any one thereby by virtue of his law , and the charter granted by him unto the church it self : the first is , that antecedently unto any actings of the church towards such a person , with respect unto office , he be furnished by the lord christ himself with graces and gifts , and abilities , for the discharge of the office whereunto he is to be called . this divine designation of the person to be called , rests on the kingly office and care of christ towards his church . where this is wholly wanting , it is not in the power of any church under heaven , by virtue of any outward order or act , to communicate pastoral or ministerial power unto any person whatever . secondly , there is to be an exploration or trial of those gifts and abilities as unto their accommodation unto the edification of that church , whereunto any person is to be ordained a pastor or minister . but although the right of judging herein , belong unto and reside in the church it self , ( for who else is able to judge for them , or is entrusted so to do ? ) yet is it their wisdom and duty to desire the assistance and guidance of those who are approved in the discharge of their office in other churches . thirdly , the first act of power committed unto the church by jesus christ for the constitution of ordinary officers in it , is , that election of a person qualified and tried , unto his office , which we have now vindicated . fourthly , there is required hereunto the solemn ordination , inauguration , dedication or setting apart of the persons so chosen by the presbytery of the church with fasting and prayer , and the outward sign of the imposition of hands . this is that order which the rule of the scripture , the example of the first churches , and the nature of the things themselves , direct unto . and although i will not say that a defect in any of these , especially if it be from unavoidable hindrances , doth disanull the call of a person to the pastoral office ; yet i must say , that where they are not all duly attended unto , the institution of christ is neglected , and the order of the church infringed : wherefore , the plea of the communication of all authority for office , and of office it self , solely by a flux of power from the first ordainers , through the hands of their pretended successors in all ages , under all the innumerable miscarriages whereunto they are subject , and have actually fallen into , without any respect unto the consent or call of the churches , by rule , laws and orders , foreign to the scripture , is contrary to the whole nature of evangelical churches , and all the ends of their institution ; as shall be manifested , if it be needful . chap. v. the especial duty of pastors of churches . we have declared the way whereby pastors are given unto , and instated in the church . that which should ensue , is an account of their work and duty in the discharge of their office. but this hath been the subject of many large discourses , both among the ancient writers of the church , and of late . i shall therefore only touch on some things that are of most necessary consideration . . the first and principal duty of a pastor , is to feed the flock by diligent preaching of the word . it is a promise relating to the new testament ; that god would give unto his church pastors according to his own heart , which should feed them with knowledge and vnderstanding , jer. . . this is by teaching or preaching the word , and no otherwise . this feeding is of the essence of the office of a pastor , as unto the exercise of it ; so that he who doth not , or cannot , or will not feed the flock , is no pastor , whatever outward call , or work he may have in the church . the care of preaching the gospel was committed to peter , and in him unto all true pastors of the church under the name of feeding , joh. . , . according to the example of the apostles they are to free themselves from all encumbrances , that they may give themselves wholly unto the word and prayer , act. . their work is to labour in the word and doctrine , tim. . . and thereby to feed the flock over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers , act. . and it is that , which is every where given them in charge . this work and duty , therefore , as was said , is essential unto the office of a pastor . a man is a pastor unto them whom he feeds by pastoral teaching , and to no more . and he that doth not so feed , is no pastor . nor is it required only that he preach now and then at his leisure ; but that he lay aside all other employments , though lawful , all other duties in the church , as unto such a constant attendance on them , as would divert him from this work , that he give himself unto it , that he be in these things labouring to the utmost of his ability . without this , no man will be able to give a comfortable account of the pastoral office at the last day . there is indeed no more required of any man than god giveth him ability for . weakness , sickness , bodily infirmities , may disenable men from the actual discharge of this duty , in that assiduity and frequency which are required in ordinary cases . and some may through age or other incapacitating distempers , be utterly disabled for it , in which case it is their duty to lay down and take a dismission from their office ; or , if their disability be but partial , provide a suitable supply , that the edification of the church be not prejudiced . but for men to pretend themselves pastors of the church , and to be unable for , or negligent of this work and duty , is to live in open defiance of the commands of christ. we have lived to see , or hear of reproachful scorn and contempt cast upon , laborious preaching , that is labouring in the word and doctrine ; and all manner of discouragements given unto it , with endeavours for its suppression in sundry instances . yea , some have proceeded so far , as to declare that the work of preaching is unnecessary in the church , so to reduce all religion to the reading and rule of the liturgy . the next attempt , so far as i know , may be to exclude christ himself out of their religion , which the denial of a necessity of preaching the gospel makes an entrance into , yea , a good progress towards . sundry things are required unto this work and duty of pastoral preaching : as , ( . ) spiritual wisdom and understanding in the mysteries of the gospel ; that they may declare unto the church the whole counsel of god , and the unsearchable riches of christ ; see act. . . cor. . , , , . ephes. . , , , . the generality of the church , especially those who are grown in knowledge and experience have a spiritual insight into these things . and the apostle prays that all believers may have so , ephes. . , , . and if those that instruct them , or should so do , have not some degree of eminency herein , they cannot be useful to lead them on to perfection . and the little care hereof or concernment herein , is that which in our days hath rendred the ministry of many fruitless and useless . ( . ) experience of the power of the truth which they preach in and upon their own souls . without this , they will themselves be lifeless and heartless in their own work , and their labour for the most part unprofitable towards others . it is to such men , attended unto , as a task for their advantage ; or as that which carries some satisfaction in it from ostentation , and supposed reputation wherewith it is accompanied . but a man preacheth that sermon only well unto others , which preacheth it self in his own soul. and he that doth not feed on , and thrive in the digestion of the food which he provides for others , will scarce make it savoury unto them . yea , he knows not but the food he hath provided may be poyson , unless he have really tasted of it himself . if the word doth not dwell with power in us , it will not pass with power from us . and no man lives in a more wofull condition than those who really believe not themselves what they perswade others to believe continually . the want of this experience of the power of gospel-truth on their own souls , is that which gives us so many lifeless , sapless orations , queint in words , and dead as to power , instead of preaching the gospel in the demonstration of the spirit . and let any say what they please , it is evident , that some mens preaching as well as others not preaching , hath lost the credit of their ministry . ( . ) skill to divide the word aright , tim. . . and this consists in a practical wisdom upon a diligent attendance unto the word of truth , to find out what is real , substantial and meet food for the souls of the hearers , to give unto all sorts of persons in the church that which is their proper portion . and this requires , ( . ) a prudent and diligent consideration of the state of the flock , over which any man is set , as unto their strength or weakness , their growth or defect in knowledge ( the measure of their attainments requiring either milk or strong meat ; ) their temptations and duties , their spiritual decays or thrivings ; and that not only in general , but as near as may be with respect unto all the individual members of the church . without a due regard unto these things , men preach at random , uncertainly fighting like those that beat the air. preaching sermons not designed for the advantage of them to whom they are preached ; insisting on general doctrines not levelled to the condition of the auditory ; speaking what men can , without consideration of what they ought , are things that will make men weary of preaching , when their minds are not influenced with outward advantages ; as much as make others weary in hearing of them . and , ( . ) all these , in the whole discharge of their duty are to be constantly accompanied with the evidence of zeal for the glory of god , and compassion for the souls of men. where these are not in vigorous exercise , in the minds and souls of them that preach the word , giving a demonstration of themselves unto the consciences of them that hear , the quickening form , the life and soul of preaching is lost . all these things seem common , obvious and universally acknowledged : but the ruine of the ministery of the most for the want of them , or from notable defects in them , is , or may be no less evidently known . and the very naming of them , which is all at present which i design , is sufficient to evidence how great a necessity there is incumbent on all pastors of churches , to give themselves unto the word and prayer , to labour in the word and doctrine , to be continually intent on this work , to engage all the faculties of their souls , to stir up all their graces and gifts unto constant exercise , in the discharge of their duty . for who is sufficient for these things . and as the consideration of them is sufficient to stir up all ministers unto fervent prayer for supplies of divine aids and assistance , for that work which in their own strength they can no way answer ; so is it enough to warn them of the avoidance of all things that would give them a diversion or avocation from the constant attendance unto the discharge of it . when men undertake the pastoral office , and either judge it not their duty to preach , or are not able so to do , or attempt it only at some solemn seasons , or attend unto it as a task required of them without that wisdom , skill , diligence , care , prudence , zeal and compassion , which are required thereunto , the glory and use of the ministry will be utterly destroyed . . the second duty of a pastor towards his flock , is , continual fervent prayer for them . give our selves unto the word and prayer . without this , no man can , or doth preach to them as he ought , nor perform any other duty of his pastoral office. from hence may any man take the best measure of the discharge of his duty towards his flock . he that doth constantly , diligently , fervently pray for them , will have a testimony in himself of his own sincerity in the discharge of all other pastoral duties ; nor can he voluntarily omit or neglect any of them . and as for those who are negligent herein , be their pains , labour and travel in other duties , never so great , they may be influenced from other reasons , and so give no evidence of sincerity in the discharge of their office. in this constant prayer for the church , which is so incumbent on all pastors , as that whatever is done without it , is of no esteem in the sight of jesus christ : respect is to be had , ( . ) unto the success of the word , unto all the blessed ends of it among them . these are no less than the improvement and strengthening of all their graces , the direction of all their duties , their edification in faith and love , with the entire conduct of their souls in the life of god , unto the enjoyment of him . to preach the word therefore , and not to follow it with constant and fervent prayer for its success , is to dis-believe its use , neglect its end , and to cast away the seed of the gospel at random . ( . ) unto the temptations that the church is generally exposed unto . these greatly vary , according unto the outward circumstances of things . the temptations in general that accompany a state of outward peace and tranquility , are of another nature , than those that attend a time of trouble , persecution , distress and poverty . and so it is as unto other occasions and circumstances . these the pastors of churches ought diligently to consider , looking on them as the means and ways whereby churches have been ruined , and the souls of many lost for ever . with respect unto them therefore , ought their prayers for the church to be fervent . ( . ) unto the especial state and condition of all the members , so far as it is known unto them . there may be of them , who are spiritually sick and diseased , tempted , afflicted , bemisted , wandering out of the way , surprized in sins and miscarriages , disconsolate and troubled in spirit in a peculiar manner . the remembrance of them all ought to abide with them , and to be continually called over in their daily pastoral supplications . ( . ) unto the presence of christ in the assemblies of the church , with all the blessed evidences and testimonies of it . this is that alone which gives life and power unto all church assemblies ; without which , all outward order and forms of divine worship in them , are but a dead carcass . now this presence of christ in the assemblies of his church , is by his spirit , accompanying all ordinances of worship with a gracious divine efficacy , evidencing it self by blessed operations on the minds and hearts of the congregation . this are pastors of churches continually to pray for , and they will do so , who understand that all the success of their labours , and all the acceptance of the church with god in their duties , do depend hereon . ( . ) to their preservation in faith , love and fruitfulness , with all the duties that belong unto them , &c. it were much to be desired , that all those who take upon them this pastoral office , did well consider and understand how great and necessary a part of their work and duty doth consist in their continual fervent prayer for their flocks . for besides that it is the only instituted way , whereby , they may by virtue of their office bless their congregations , so will they find their hearts and minds in and by the discharge of it , more and more filled with love , and engaged with diligence , unto all other duties of their office , and excited unto the exercise of all grace towards the whole church on all occasions . and where any are negligent herein , there is no duty which they perform towards the church , but it is influenced with false considerations , and will not hold weight in the balance of the sanctuary . . the administration of the seals of the covenant is committed unto them as the stewards of the house of christ. for unto them the authoritative dispensation of the word is committed , whereunto the administration of the seals is annexed . for their principal end is , the peculiar confirmation and application of the word preached . and herein there are three things that they are to attend unto . ( . ) the times and seasons of their administration unto the churches edification , especially that of the lords supper whose frequency is enjoined . it is the duty of pastors to consider all the necessary circumstances of their administration , as unto time , place , frequency , order and decency . ( . ) to keep severely unto the institution of christ , as unto the way and manner of their administration . the gradual introduction of uninstituted rites and ceremonies into the church-celebration of the ordinance of the lords supper , ended at length in the idolatry of the mass. herein then , alone , and not in bowing , cringing , and vestments , lies the glory and beauty of these administrations ; namely , that they are compliant with , and expressive of the institution of christ ; nor is any thing done in them , but in express obedience unto his authority . i have received of the lord , that which i delivered unto you , saith the apostle in this case , cor. . . ( . ) to take care that these holy things be administred only unto those who are meet and worthy , according unto the rule of the gospel . those who impose on pastors the promiscuous administration of these divine ordinances , or the application of the seals unto all without difference , do deprive them of one half of their ministerial office and duty . but here it is enquired by some , whether in case a church have no pastor at present , or a teaching elder with pastoral power , whether it may not delegate and appoint the administration of these especial ordinances , unto some member of the church at this or that season , who is meetly qualified for the outward administration of them ; which for the sake of some i shall examine . . no church is compleat in order without teaching officers ; ephes. . , . cor. . , . a church not compleat in order cannot be compleat in administrations ; because the power of administrations depends upon the power of order proportionably . that is , the power of the church depends upon the being of the church . hence the first duty of a church without officers , is to obtain them according to rule . and to endeavour to compleat administrations , without an antecedent compleating of order , is contrary unto the mind of christ , act. . . tit. . . that thou should'st set in order the things that are wanting , and ordain elders in every church . the practice therefore proposed is irregular and contrary to the mind of christ. the order of the church is two fold ; as essential , as organical . the order of the church as essential , and its power thence arising , is , first for its preservation . secondly for its perfection . ( . ) for its preservation , in admission and exclusion of members . ( . ) for its perfection , in the election of officers . no part of this power which belongs to the church as essentially considered , can be delegated , but must be acted by the whole church . they cannot delegate power to some to admit members , so as it should not be an act of the whole church . they cannot delegate power to any to elect officers ; nor any thing else which belongs to them as a church essentially . the reason is ; things that belong unto the essence of any thing , belong unto it formally as such , and so cannot be transferred . the church therefore cannot delegate the power and authority inquired after , should it be supposed to belong to the power of order , as the church is essentially considered ; which yet it doth not . if the church may delegate or substitute others for the discharge of all ordinances whatsoever , without elders or pastors , then it may perfect the saints , and compleat the work of the ministry without them , which is contrary to ephes. . , . and secondly , it would render the ministry only convenient , and not absolutely necessary to the church ; which is contrary to the institution of it . a particular church , in order , as organical , is the adequate subject of all ordinances , and not as essential ; because as essential it never doth nor can enjoy all ordinances , namely the ministry in particular , whereby it is constituted organical . yet on this supposition the church as essentially considered , is the sole adequate subject of all ordinances . though the church be the only subject , it is not the only object of gospel ordinances ; but that is various . for instance , . the preaching of the word ; its first object is the world , for conversion : its next , professors , for edification . . baptism ; it s only object is neither the world nor the members of a particular church ; but professors , with those that are reckoned to them by gods appointment ; that is their infant seed . . the supper ; its object is a particular church only , which is acknowledged ; and may be proved by the institution , one special end of it , and the necessity of discipline thereon depending . ordinances whereof the church is the only subject and the only object , cannot be administred authoritatively , but by officers only . ( . ) because none but christs stewards have authority in and towards his house as such , cor. . . tim. . . matth. . . ( . ) because it is an act of office-authority to represent christ to the whole church , and to feed the whole flock thereby , act. . . pet. . . there are no footsteps of any such practice among the churches of god , who walked in order ; neither in the scripture , nor in all antiquity . but it is objected by those who allow this practice , that if the church may appoint or send a person forth to preach , or appoint a brother to preach unto themselves ; then they may appoint him to administer the ordinance of the supper . answ. here is a mistake in the supposition . the church , that is the body of it , cannot send out any brother authoritatively to preach . two things are required thereunto ; collation of gifts , and communication of office ; neither of which , the church under that consideration can do to one that is sent forth . but where god gives gifts by his spirit , and a call by his providence , the church only complies therewith ; not in communicating authority to the person , but in praying for a blessing upon his work. the same is the case in desiring a brother to teach among them . the duty is moral in its own nature ; the gifts and call are from god alone , the occasion of his exercise is only administred by the church . it is farther added by the same persons , that , if a brother , or one who is a disciple , only may baptize , then he may also administer the lords supper , being desired of the church . answ. the supposition is not granted nor proved , but there is yet a difference between these ordinances ; the object of one being professors as such at large ; the object of the other being professors as members of a particular church . but to return : . it is incumbent on them to preserve the truth or doctrine of the gospel , received and professed in the church ; and to defend it against all opposition . this is one principal end of the ministry , one principal means of the preservation of the faith once delivered unto the saints . this is committed in an especial manner unto the pastors of the churches , as the apostle frequently and emphatically repeats the charge of it unto timothy , and in him unto all , to whom the dispensation of the word is committed , epist. . , , . chap. . , , . chap. . . epist. . , . chap. . , , . the same he giveth in charge unto the elders of the church of ephesus , act. . , , . what he says of himself , that the glorious gospel of the blessed god was committed unto his trust , tim. . . is true of all pastors of churches according to their measure and call ; and they should all aim at the account , which he gives of his ministry herein ; i have fought a good fight , i have finished my course , i have kept the faith , tim. . . the church is the ground and pillar of truth ; and it is so principally in its ministry : and the sinful neglect of this duty , is that which was the cause of most of the pernicious heresies and errors that have infested and ruined the church . those whose duty it was to preserve the doctrine of the gospel entire in the publick profession of it , have many of them spoken perverse things to draw away disciples after them . bishops , presbyters , publick teachers , have been the ring-leaders in heresies . wherefore this duty , especially at this time , when the fundamental truths of the gospel are on all sides impugned from all sorts of adversaries , is in an especial manner to be attended unto . sundry things are required hereunto . as , ( . ) a clear , sound comprehensive knowledge of the entire doctrine of the gospel , attained by all means useful and commonly prescribed unto that end , especially diligent study of the scripture , with fervent prayer for illumination and understanding . men cannot preserve that for others , which they are ignorant of themselves . truth may be lost by weakness , as well as by wickedness . and the defect herein in many is deplorable . ( . ) love of the truth , which they have so learned and comprehended . unless we look on truth as a pearl , as that which is valued at any rate , bought with any price , as that which is better than all the world , we shall not endeavour its preservation with that diligence which is required . some are ready to part with truth at an easie rate ; or to grow indifferent about it , whereof we have multitudes of examples in the days wherein we live . it were easie to give instances of sundry important evangelical truths , which our fore-fathers in the faith contended for with all earnestness , and were ready to seal with their blood , which are now utterly disregarded and opposed by some who pretend to succeed them in their profession . if ministers have not a sense of that power of truth in their own souls , and a taste of its goodness , the discharge of this duty is not to be expected from them . ( . ) a consciencious care and fear of giving countenance or encouragement unto novel opinions , especially such as oppose any truth , of whose power and efficacy , experience hath been had among them that believe . vain curiosity , boldness in conjectures , and readiness to vent their own conceits , have caused no small trouble and damage unto the church . ( . ) learning and ability of mind to discern and disprove the oppositions of the adversaries of the truth , and thereby to stop their mouths , and convince gain-sayers . ( . ) the solid confirmation of the most important truths of the gospel , and whereunto all others are resolved in their ▪ teaching and ministry . men may , and do oft-times prejudice , yea , betray the truth , by the weakness of their pleas for it . ( . ) a diligent watch over their own flocks , against the crafts of seducers from without , or the springing up of any bitter root of error among themselves . ( . ) a concurrent assistance with the elders and messengers of other churches , with whom they are in communion , in the declaration of the faith which they all profess ; whereof we must treat afterwards more at large . it is evident what learning , labour , study , pains , ability and exercise of the rational faculties , are ordinarily required unto the right discharge of these duties . and where men may be useful to the church in other things , but are defective in these , it becomes them to walk and act both circumspectly and humbly , frequently desiring and adhering unto the advice of them whom god hath entrusted with more talents and greater abilities . . it belongs unto their charge and office , diligently to labour for the conversion of souls unto god. the ordinary means of conversion is left unto the church , and its duty it is to attend unto it . yea , one of the principal ends of the institution and preservation of churches , is the conversion of souls ; and where there are no more to be converted , there shall be no more church on the earth . to enlarge the kingdom of christ , to diffuse the light and savour of the gospel , to be subservient unto the calling of the elect , or gathering all the sheep of christ into his fold , are things that god designs by his churches in this world. now the principal instrumental cause of all these , is the preaching of the word ; and this is committed unto the pastors of the churches . it is true , men may be , and often are converted unto god by their occasional dispensation of the word who are not called unto office ; for it is the gospel it self that is the power of god unto salvation , by whomsoever it is administred , and it hath been effectual unto that end , even in the necessary occasional teaching of women . but it is so frequently in the exercise of spiritual gifts , by them who are not stated officers of the church , cor. . , . phil. . , , . pet. . , . but yet this hinders not , but that the administration of the glorious gospel of the blessed god , as unto all the ends of it , is committed unto the pastors of the church . and the first object of the preaching of the gospel , is the world , or the men of it for their conversion . and it is so in the preaching of all them unto whom that work is committed by christ. the work of the apostles and evangelists had this order in it . first , they were to make disciples of men , by the preaching of the gospel unto conversion , and this was their principal work , as paul testifieth , cor. . . and herein were they gloriously instrumental , in laying the foundation of the kingdom of christ all the world over . the second part of their work , was , to teach them that were converted , or made disciples , to do , and observe , all that he did command them . in the pursuit of this part of their commission , they gathered the disciples of christ into churches , under ordinary officers of their own . and although the work of these ordinary officers , pastors , and teachers , be of the same nature with theirs , yet the method of it is changed in them . for their first ordinary work is to conduct and teach all the disciples of christ to do and observe all things appointed by him ; that is to preach unto and watch over their particular flocks , unto whom they do relate . but they are not hereby discharged from an interest in the other part of the work in preaching the word unto the conversion of souls . they are not indeed bound unto the method of the apostles and evangelists ; yea , they are by virtue of their office , ordinarily excluded from it . after a man is called to be a pastor of a particular church , it is not his duty to leave that church , and go up and down to preach for the conversion of strangers . it is not , i say , ordinarily so , for many cases may fall out wherein the edification of any particular church is to give way unto the glory of christ , with respect unto the calling of all the members of the church catholick . but in the discharge of the pastoral office , there are many occasions of preaching the word unto the conversion of souls . as , ( . ) when any that are unconverted do come into the assemblies of the church , and are there wrought upon by the power of the word , whereof we have experience every day . to suppose that a man at the same time , and in the same place preaching unto one congregation , should preach to some of them , namely those that are of the church whereunto he relates , as a minister with ministerial authority ; and to others only by virtue of a spiritual gift , which he hath received , is that which no man can distinguish in his own conscience , nor is there any colour of rule or reason for it . for though pastors , with respect unto their whole office , and all the duties of it , whereof many can have the church only for their object , are ministers in office unto the church , and so ministers of the church ; yet are they ministers of christ also ; and by him it is , and not by the church , that the preaching of the gospel is committed unto them . and it is so committed , as that by virtue of their office they are to use it unto all its ends , in his way and method , whereof the conversion of sinners is one . and for a man to conceive of himself in a double capacity whilst he is preaching to the same congregation , is that which no mans experience can reach unto . ( . ) in occasional preaching in other places , whereunto a pastor of a church may be called and directed by divine providence . for , although we have no concernment in the figment of an indelible character accompanying sacred orders ; yet we do not think that the pastoral office is such a thing as a man must leave behind him every time he goes from home ; or that it is in his own power , or in the power of all men in the world , to devest him of it , unless he be dismissed or deposed from it by christ himself , through the rule of his word . where-ever a true minister preacheth , he preacheth as a minister ; for , as such the administration of the gospel is committed unto him , as unto all the ends of it ; whereof , the chief as was said , is the conversion of souls . yea , of such weight is it , that the conveniency and edification of particular churches , ought to give place unto it . when therefore there are great opportunities , and providential calls for the preaching of the gospel unto the conversion of souls , and the harvest being great there are not labourers sufficient for it ; it is lawful , yea , it is the duty of pastors of particular churches , to leave their constant attendance on their pastoral charge in those churches , at least for a season , to apply themselves unto the more publick preaching of the word unto the conversion of the souls of men. nor will any particular church be unwilling hereunto , which understands that even the whole end of particular churches is but the edification of the church catholick ; and that their good and advantage is to give place unto that of the glory of christ in the whole . the good shepherd will leave the ninety and nine sheep , to seek after one that wanders ; and we may certainly leave a few for a season , to seek after a great multitude of wanderers , when we are called thereunto by divine providence . and i could heartily wish that we might have a trial of it at this time . the ministers who have been most celebrated , and that deservedly in the last ages , in this and the neighbour nations , have been such as whose ministry god made eminently successful unto the conversion of souls . to affirm that they did not do their work as ministers and by virtue of their minsterial office , is to cast away the crown , and destroy the principal glory of the ministry . for my own part , if i did not think my self bound to preach as a minister , and as a minister authorized in all places , and on all occasions when i am called thereunto , i think i should never preach much more in this world. nor do i know at all what rule they walk by , who continue publick constant preaching for many years , and yet neither desire nor design to be called unto any pastoral office , in the church . but i must not here insist on the debate of these things . . it belongs unto men on the account of their pastoral office , to be ready , willing , and able , to comfort , relieve and refresh those that are tempted , tossed , wearied with fears and grounds of disconsolation in times of trial and desertion . the tongue of the learned is required in them , that they should know how to speak a word in season unto him that is weary . one excellent qualification of our lord jesus christ , in the discharge of his priestly office now in heaven , is , that he is touched with a sense of our infirmities , and knows how to succour them that are tempted . his whole flock in this world , are a company of tempted ones . his own life on the earth , he calls the time of his temptation . and those who have the charge of his flock under him , ought to have a sense of their infirmities , and endeavour in an especial manner to succour them that are tempted . but amongst them , there are some always that are cast under darkness and disconsolations in a peculiar manner ; some at the entrance of their conversion unto god , whilst they have a deep sense of the terrour of the lord , the sharpness of conviction , and the uncertainty of their condition . some are relapsed into sin or omissions of duties ; some under great , sore and lasting afflictions ; some upon pressing , urgent , particular occasions ; some on sovereign , divine desertions ; some through the buffetings of satan , and the injections of blasphemous thoughts into their minds , with many other occasions of an alike nature . now the troubles , disconsolations , dejections and fears that arise in the minds of persons in these exercises and temptations , are various , oftentimes urged and fortified with subtil arguing , and fair pretences , perplexing the souls of men almost to despair and death . it belongs unto the office and duty of pastors . . to be able rightly to understand the various cases that will occurr of this kind , from such principles and grounds of truth and experience , as will bear a just confidence in a prudent application unto the relief of them concerned . the tongue of the learned to know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary . it will not be done by a collection and determination of cases , which yet is useful it its place . for hardly shall we meet with two cases of this kind , that will exactly be determined by the same rule ; all manner of circumstances giving them variety . but a skill , understanding and experience in the whole nature of the work of the spirit of god on the souls of men ; of the conflict that is between the flesh and the spirit ; of the methods and wiles of satan , of the wiles of principalities and powers or wicked spirits in high places ; of the nature , and effects and ends of divine desertions , with wisdom to make application out of such principles , of fit medicines and remedies unto every sore and distemper , are required hereunto . these things are by some despised , by some neglected , by some looked after only in stated cases of conscience ; in which work it is known that some have horribly debauched their own consciences and others , to the scandal and ruine of religion , so far as they have prevailed . but not to dispute how far such helps as books written of cases of conscience , may be useful herein , which they may be greatly unto those who know how to use them aright ; the proper ways whereby pastors and teachers must obtain this skill and understanding , is , by diligent study of the scriptures , meditation thereon , fervent prayer , experience of spiritual things , and temptations in their own souls , with a prudent observation of the manner of gods dealing with others , and the ways of the opposition made to the work of his grace in them . without these things all pretences unto this ability and duty of the pastoral office are vain ; whence it is , that the whole work of it is much neglected . . to be ready and willing to attend unto the especial cases that may be brought unto them , and not to look on them as unnecessary diversions ; whereas a due application unto them , is a principal part of their office and duty . to discountenance , to discourage any from seeking relief in perplexities of this nature , to carry it towards them with a seeming moroseness and unconcernedness , is to turn that which is lame out of the way , to push the diseased , and not at all to express the care of christ towards his flock , isa. . . yea , it is their duty to hearken after them who may be so exercised , to seek them out , to give them their counsel and directions on all occasions . . to bear patiently and tenderly with the weakness , ignorance , dulness , slowness to believe and receive satisfaction , yea , it may be , impertinencies in them that are so tempted . these things will abound amongst them , partly from their natural infirmities , many being weak , and perhaps froward ; but especially from the nature of their temptations , which are suited to disorder and disquiet their minds , to fill them with perplexed thoughts , and to make them jealous of every thing wherein they are spiritually concerned . and if much patience , meekness and condescention , be not exercised towards them , they are quickly turned out of the way . in the discharge of the whole pastoral office , there is not any thing or duty that is of more importance , nor wherein the lord jesus christ is more concerned , nor more eminently suited unto the nature of the office it self , than this is . but , whereas it is a work or duty , which because of the reasons mentioned , must be accompanied with the exercise of humility , patience , self-denial and spiritual wisdom , with experience , with wearisome diversions from other occasions ; those who had got of old the conduct of the souls of men into their management , turned this whole part of their office and duty into an engine they called articular confession , whereby they wrested the consciences of christians to the promotion of their own ease , wealth , authority , and oft-times to worse ends . . a compassionate suffering , with all the members of the church in all their trials and troubles , whether internal , or external , belongs unto them in the discharge of their office. nor is there any thing that renders them more like unto jesus christ , whom to represent unto the church , is their principal duty . the view and consideration by faith of the glory of christ in his compassion with his suffering members , is the principal spring of consolation unto the church in all its distresses . and the same spirit , the same mind herein , ought , according to their measure , to be in all that have the pastoral office committed unto them . so the apostle expresseth it in himself : who is weak , and i am not weak ? who is offended , and i burn not ? cor. . . and unless this compassion and goodness do run through the discharge of their whole office , men cannot be said to be evangelical shepherds , nor the sheep said in any sense to be their own . for those who pretend unto the pastoral office , to live , it may be , in wealth and pleasure , regardless of the sufferings and temptations of their flock , or of the poor of it ; or related unto such churches , as wherein it is impossible that they should so much as be acquainted with the state of the greatest part of them , is not answerable unto the institution of their office , nor to the design of christ therein . . care of the poor , and visitation of the sick , are parts of this duty , commonly known , though commonly neglected . . the principal care of the rule of the church is incumbent on the pastors of it . this is the second general head of the power and duty of this office , whereunto many things in particular do belong . but because i shall treat afterwards of the rule of the church by it self distinctly , i shall not here insist upon it . . there is a communion to be observed among all the churches of the same faith and profession in any nation . wherein it doth consist , and what is required thereunto , shall be afterwards declared . the principal care hereof , unto the edification of the churches , is incumbent on the pastors of them . whether it be exercised by letters of mutual advice , of congratulation or consolation , or in testimony of communion with those who are called to office in them , or whether it be by convening in synods for consultation of their joint concernments , ( which things made up a great part of the primitive ecclesiastical polity ; ) their duty it is to attend unto it , and to take care of it . . that wherewith i shall close these few instances of the pastoral charge and duty , is , that without which all the rest will neither be useful unto men , nor be accepted with the great shepherd christ jesus . and that is an humble , holy , exemplary conversation in all godliness and honesty . the rules and precepts of the scripture , the examples of christ and his apostles , with that of the bishops or pastors of the primitive churches , and the nature of the thing it self , with the religion which we do profess , do undeniably prove this duty to be necessary and indispensable in a gospel ministry . it were an easie thing to fill up a volume with ancient examples unto this purpose ; with testimonies of the scripture and first writers among christians , with examples of publick and private miscarriages herein , with evident demonstration , that the ruine of christian religion in most nations where it hath been professed , and so of the nations themselves , hath proceeded from the ambition , pride , luxury , vncleanness , profaneness , and otherways vitious conversations of those who have been called the clergy . and in daily observation , it is a thing written with the beams of the sun , that whatever else be done in churches , if the pastors of them or those who are so esteemed , are not exemplary in gospel obedience and holiness , religion will not be carried on and improved among the people , if persons , light or prophane in their habits , garbs and converse , corrupt in their communication , unsavoury and barren as unto spiritual discourse ; if such as are covetous , oppressive and contentious ; such as are negligent in holy duties in their own families , and so cannot stir up others unto diligence therein ; much more , if such as are openly sensual , vitious and debauched ; are admitted into this office , we may take our leave of all the glory and power of religion , among the people committed unto their charge . to handle this property or adjunct of the pastoral office , it were necessary distinctly to consider and explain all the qualifications assigned by the apostle as necessary unto bishops and elders , evidenced as previously necessary unto the orderly call of them unto this office , tim. . , , , , , . tit. . , , , . which is a work not consistent with my present design to engage in . these are some instances of the things wherein the office-duty of pastors of the church doth consist . they are but some of them , and those only proposed , not pursued and pressed with the consideration of all those particular duties , with the manner of their performance , way of management , motives and enforcements , defects and causes of them , which would require a large discourse . these may suffice unto our present purpose ; and we may derive from them the ensuing brief considerations . . a due meditation and view of these things , as proposed in the scripture , is enough to make the wisest , the best of men , and the most diligent in the discharge of the pastoral office , to cry out with the apostle , and who is sufficient for these things ? this will make them look well to their call and entrance into this office , as that alone which will bear them out and justify them in the susception of it . for no sense of insufficiency can utterly discourage any in the undertaking of a work , which he is assured that the lord christ calls him unto . for where he calls to a duty , he gives competent strength for the performance of it . and when we say , under a deep sense of our own weakness , who is sufficient for these things ; he doth say , my grace is sufficient for you . . although all the things mentioned , do plainly , evidently and undeniably belong unto the discharge of the pastoral office , yet in point of fact we find by the success , that they are very little considered by the most that seek after it . and the present ruine of religion , as unto its power , beauty and glory in all places , ariseth principally from this cause , that multitudes of those who undertake this office , are neither in any measure fit for it , nor do either conscientiously attend unto , or diligently perform the duties that belong unto it . it ever was , and every will be true in general ; like priest , like people . . whereas the account which is to be given of this office , and the discharge of it at the last day unto jesus christ , the consideration whereof had a mighty influence upon the apostles themselves , and all the primitive pastors of the churches , is frequently proposed unto us , and many warnings given us thereon in the scripture ; yet it is apparent they are but few who take it into due consideration . in the great day of christs visitation , he will proceed on such articles as those here laid down , and others expressed in the scripture , and not at all on those which are now enquired upon in our episcopal visitations . and if they may be minded of their true interest and concern , whilst they possess the places they hold in the church , without offence , i would advise them to conform their enquiries in their visitations , unto those , which they cannot but know the lord christ will make in the great day of his visitation , which doth approach : this i think but reasonable . in the mean time , for those who desire to give up their account with joy and confidence , and not with grief and confusion ; it is their wisdom and duty continually to bear in mind what it is that the lord christ requires of them in the discharge of their office. to take benefices , to perform legal ▪ duties by themselves or others , is not fully compliant with what pastors of churches are called unto . . it is manifest also from hence , how inconsistent it is with this office , and the due discharge of it , for any one man to undertake the relation of a pastor unto more churches than one , especially if far distant from one another . an evil this is , like that of mathematical prognostications at rome , always condemned and always retained . but one view of the duties incumbent on each pastor , and of whose diligent performance he is to give an account at the last day , will discard this practice from all approbation in the minds of them that are sober . however , it is as good to have ten churches at once , as having but one , never to discharge the duty of a pastor towards it . . all churches may do well to consider the weight and burden that lies upon their pastors and teachers , in the discharge of their office , that they may be constant in fervent prayers and supplications for them ; as also to provide , what lies in them , that they may be without trouble and cares about the things of this life . . there being so many duties necessary unto the discharge of their office , and those of such various sorts and kinds , as to require various gifts and abilities unto their due performance , it seems very difficult to find a concurrence of them in any own person , in any considerable degree , so as that it is hard to conceive how the office it self should be duly discharged . i answer , ( . ) the end both of the office , and of the discharge of it , is the due edification of the church : this therefore gives them their measure . where that is attained , the office is duly discharged , though the gifts whereby men are enabled thereunto , be not eminent . ( . ) where a man is called unto this office , and applieth himself sincerely unto the due discharge of it , if he be evidently defective with respect to any especial duty or duties of it , that defect is to be supplied by calling any other unto his assistance in office , who is qualified to make that supply unto the edification of the church . and the like must be said concerning such pastors , as through age or bodily weakness are disabled from attendance unto any part of their duty ; for still the edification of the church is that , which in all these things , is in the first place to be provided for . . it may be enquired , what is the state of those churches , and what relation , with respect unto communion , we ought to have unto them whose pastors are evidently defective in , or neglective of these things , so as that they are not in any competent measure attended unto . and we may in particular instance in the first and the last of the pastoral duties before insisted on . suppose a man be no way able to preach the word unto the edification of them that are pleaded to be his flock ; or having any ability , yet doth not , will not give himself unto the word and prayer , or not labour in the word and doctrine , unto the great prejudice of edification : and suppose the same person be openly defective , as unto an exemplary conversation , and on the contrary , layeth the stumbling block of his own sins and follies before the eyes of others ; what shall we judge of his ministry , and of the state of that church whereof he is a constituent part , as its ruler ? i answer , . i do not believe it is in the power of any church really to conferr the pastoral office by virtue of any ordination whatever , unto any who are openly and evidently destitute of all those previous qualifications which the scripture requireth in them who are to be called unto this office. there is indeed a latitude to be allowed in judging of them in times of necessity and great penury of able teachers ; so that persons in holy ministry , design the glory of god and the edification of the church , according to their ability . but otherwise there is a nullity in the pretended office. . where any such are admitted through ignorance or mistake , or the usurpation of undue power over churches , in imposing ministers on them , there is not an absolute nullity in their administrations , until they are discovered and convicted by the rule and law of christ. but if on evidence hereof , the people will voluntarily adhere unto them , they are partakers of their sins , and do what in them lies to vn-church themselves . . where such persons are by any means placed as pastors in or over any churches , and there is no way for the removal or reformation , it is lawful unto , it is the duty of every one who takes care of his own edification and salvation , to withdraw from the communion of such churches , and to join with such as wherein edification is better provided for . for , whereas this is the sole end of churches , of all their offices , officers and administrations ; it is the highest folly to imagine that any disciple of christ , can be , or is obliged by his authority to abide in the communion of such churches , without seeking relief in the ways of his appointment , wherein that end is utterly overthrown . . where the generality of churches in any kind of association are headed by pastors defective in these things , in the matter declared , there all publick church-reformation is morally impossible ; and it is the duty of private men to take care of their own souls , let churches and church-men say what they please . some few things may yet be enquired into , with reference unto the office of a pastor in the church : as , . whether a man may be ordained a pastor or a minister , without relation unto any particular church , so as to be invested with office-power thereby . it is usually said , that a man may be ordained a minister unto , or of the catholick church , or to convert infidels , although he be not related unto any particular flock or congregation . i shall not at present discuss sundry things about the power and way of ordination which influence this controversy , but only speak briefly unto the thing it self : and , . it is granted , that a man endowed with spiritual gifts for the preaching of the gospel , may be set apart by fasting and prayer unto that work , when he may be orderly called unto it in the providence of god. for , ( . ) such an one hath a call unto it materially in the gifts which he hath received , warranting him unto the exercise of them for the edification of others , as he hath occasion , pet. . , . cor. . . setting apart unto an important work by prayer is a moral duty , and useful in church affairs in an especial manner , act. . . ( . ) a publick testimony unto the approbation of a person undertaking the work of preaching , is necessary . ( . ) unto the communion of churches , that he may be received in any of them as is occasion ; of which sort were the letters of recommendation in the primitive church , cor. . . cor. . . joh. . ( . ) unto the safety of them , amongst whom he may exercise his gifts , that they be not imposed on by false teachers or seducers . nor would the primitive church allow , nor is it allowable in the communion of churches , that any person not so testified unto , not so sent and warranted , should undertake constantly to preach the gospel . . such persons so set apart and sent , may be esteemed ministers in the general notion of the word , and may be useful in the calling and planting of churches , wherein they may be instated in the pastoral office. this was originally the work of evangelists , which office being ceased in the church , ( as shall be proved elsewhere ) the work may be supplied by persons of this sort . . no church whatever hath power to ordain men ministers for the conversion of infidels . since the cessation of extraordinary officers and offices , the care of that work is devolved meerly on the providence of god , being left without the verge of church-institutions . god alone can send and warrant men for the undertaking of that work. nor can any man know , or be satisfied in a call unto that work , without some previous guidance of divine providence leading him thereunto . it is indeed the duty of all the ordinary ministers of the church , to diffuse the knowledge of christ and the gospel unto the heathen and infidels , among whom , or near unto whom their habitation is cast ; and they have all manner of divine warranty for their so doing ; as many worthy persons have done effectually in new england . and it is the duty of every true christian , who may be cast among them by the providence of god , to instruct them according unto his ability in the knowledge of the truth : but it is not in the power of any church , or any sort of ordinary officers , to ordain a person unto the office of the ministry for the conversion of the heathen , antecedently unto any designation by divine providence thereunto . . no man can be properly or compleatly ordained unto the ministry , but he is ordained unto a determinate office ; as a bishop , an elder , a pastor . but this no man can be , but he who is ordained in and unto a particular church . for the contrary practice , . would be contrary to the constant practice of the apostles , who ordained no ordinary officers , but in and unto particular churches , which were to be their proper charge and care , act. . . tit. . . nor is there mention of any ordinary officers in the whole scripture , but such as were fixed in the particular churches where-unto they did relate , act. . . phil. . . revel . . . nor was any such practice known or heard of in the primitive church : yea , . it was absolutely forbidden in the ancient church , and all such ordinations declared null , so as not to communicate office-power or give any ministerial authority . so it is expresly in the first canon ▪ of the council of chalcedon , and the council decrees , that all imposition of hands , in such cases , is invalid and of no effect . yea , so exact and careful were they in this matter , that if any one , for any just cause , as he judged himself , did leave his particular church or charge , they would not allow him the name or title of a bishop , or to officiate occasionally in that church , or any where else . this is evident in the case of eustathius a bishop of pamphilia . the good man finding the discharge of his office very troublesome , by reason of secular businesses that it was incumbred withal , and much opposition , with reproach that befell him from the church it self , of his own accord laid down and resigned his charge , the church choosing one theodorus in his room . but afterwards he desired , that though he had left his charge , he might retain the name , title and honour of a bishop : for this end he made a petition unto the council of ephesus , who , as themselves express it , in meer commiseration unto the old man , condescended unto his desire as unto the name and title , but not as unto any office-power , which they judge , related absolutely unto a particular charge , epist. can. ephes. . ad synod . in pamphil. . such ordination wants an essential constitutive cause , and part of the collation of office-power , which is the election of the people , and is therefore invalid . see what hath been proved before unto that purpose . . a bishop , an elder , a pastor , being terms of relation , to make any one so without relation unto a church , a people , a flock , is to make him a father who hath no child , or an husband who hath no wife , a relate without a correlate , which is impossible , and implies a contradiction . . it is inconsistent with the whole nature and end of the pastoral office. whoever is duly called , set apart or ordained unto that office , he doth therein and thereby take on himself the discharge of all the duties belonging thereunto , and is obliged to attend diligently unto them . if then we will take a view of what hath been proved before to belong unto this office , we shall find , that not the least part , scarce any thing of it , can be undertaken and discharged by such as are ordained absolutely without relation unto particular churches . for any to take upon them to commit an office unto others , and not at the same time charge them with all the duties of that office and their immediate attendance on them ; or for any to accept of an office and office-power , not knowing when or where to exert the power or perform the duties of it , is irregular . in particular , ruling is an essential part of the pastoral office , which they cannot attend unto who have none to be ruled by them . . may a pastor remove from one congregation unto another ? this is a thing also which the ancient church made great provision against . for when some churches were encreased in members , reputation , privileges and wealth above others , it grew an ordinary practice for the bishops to design and endeavour their own removal from a less unto a greater benefice . this is so severely interdicted in the councils of nice and chalcedon , as that they would not allow that a man might be a bishop or presbyter in any other place , but only in the church wherein he was originally ordained : and therefore , if any did so remove themselves , decreed , that they should be sent home again , and there abide , or cease to be church-officers , council . nicea , can. , . chalced. can. , . pluralities , as they are called , and open contending for ecclesiastical promotions , benefices and dignities , were then either unknown , or openly condemned . yet it cannot be denied , but that there may be just causes of the removal of a pastor from one congregation unto another : for , whereas the end of all particular churches is to promote the edification of the catholick church in general ; where , in any especial instance , such a removal is useful unto that end , it is equal it should be allowed . cases of this nature may arise from the consideration of persons , places , times , and many other circumstances that i cannot insist on in particular . but that such removals may be without offence , it is required that they be made , ( . ) with the free consent of the churches concerned . ( . ) with the advice of other churches , or their elders , with whom they walk in communion . and of examples of this kind , or of the removal of bishops or pastors from one church to another in an orderly manner , by advice and counsel for the good of the whole churth , there are many instances in the primitive times . such was that of gregory naz. removed from casima to constantinople , though i acknowledge it had no good success , . may a pastor voluntarily , or of his own accord , resign and lay down his office , and remain in a private capacity ? this also was judged inconvenient , if not unlawful , by the first synod of ephesus , in the case of eustathius . he was , as it appears , an aged man , one that loved his one peace and quietness , and who could not well bear the oppositions and reproaches which he met withal from the church or some in it ; and thereon , solemnly upon his own judgment , without advice , laid down and renounced his office in the church , who , thereupon chose a good man in his room . yet did the synod condemn this practice , and that not without weighty reasons , whereby they confirmed their judgment . but yet no general rule can be established in this case ; nor was the judgment or practice of the primitive church precise herein . clemens , in his epistle to the church of corinth , expresly adviseth those on whose occasion there was disturbance and divisions in the church , to lay down their office and withdraw from it . gregory nazianzen did the same at constantinople , and protesteth openly , that although he were himself innocent and free from blame , as he truly was , and one of the greatest men of his age , yet he would depart or be cast out , rather than they should not have peace among them ; which he did accordingly , orat. . & vit . nazian . and afterward a synod at constantinople under photius , concluded , that in some cases it is lawful , can. . wherefore , . it seems not to be lawful so to do , meerly on the account of weakness of work and labour , though occasioned by age , sickness , or bodily distempers . for no man is any way obliged to do more than he is able , with the regular preservation of his life ; and the church is obliged to be satisfied with the conscientious discharge of what abilities a pastor hath ; otherwise providing for it self in what is wanting . . it is not lawful , meerly on a weariness of , and despondency under opposition and reproaches ; which a pastor is called and obliged to undergo for the good and edification of the flock , and not to faint in the warfare wereto he is called . these two were the reasons of eustathius at perga , which were disallowed in the council at ephesus : but , . it is lawful in such an incurable decay of intellectual abilities , as whereon a man can discharge no duty of the pastoral office unto the edification of the church . . it is lawful , in case of incurable divisions in the church constantly obstructing its edification , and which cannot be removed whilst such a one continues in his office , though he be no way the cause of them . this is the case wherein clemens gives advice , and whereof gregory gave an example in his own practice . but this case and its determination , will hold only where the divisions are incurable by any other ways and means . for if those who cause such divisions may be cast out of the church , or the church may withdraw communion from them ; or if there be divisions in fixed parties and principles , opinions or practices , they may separate into distinct communion ; in such cases this remedy , by the pastors laying down his office , is not to be made use of ; otherwise all things are to be done for edification . . it may be lawful , where the church is wholly negligent in its duty , and persists in that negligence after admonition , in providing , according to their abilities , for the outward necessity of their pastor and his family . but this case cannot be determined without the consideration of many particular circumstances . . where all or many of these causes concurr , so as that a man cannot cheerfully and comfortably go on in the discharge of his office , especially , if he be pressed in point of conscience through the churches non-compliance with their duty , with respect unto any of the institutions of christ : and if the edification of the church , which is at present obstructed , may be provided for in their own judgment after a due manner ; there is no such grievous yoke laid by the lord christ on the necks of any of his servants , but that such a person may peaceably lay down his office in such a church , and either abide in a private station , or take the care of another church , wherein he may discharge his office ( being yet of ability ) unto his own comfort , and their edification . chap. vi. of the office of teachers in the church , or an enquiry into the state , condition , and work of those called teachers in the scripture . the lord christ hath given unto his church pastors and teachers , ephes. . . he hath set in the church , first , apostles , secondarily , prophets , thirdly , teachers , cor. . . in the church that was at antioch there were prophets and teachers , act. . . and their work is both described and assigned unto them , as we shall see afterwards . but the thoughts of learned men , about those who in the scripture are called teachers , are very various ; nor is the determination of their state and condition easie or obvious , as we shall find in our enquiry . if there were originally a distinct office of teachers in the church , it was lost for many ages : but yet there was always a shadow or appearance of it retained , first in publick catechists , and then in doctors or professors of theology in the schools belonging unto any church . but this , as unto the title of doctor or teacher , is but a late invention . for the occasion of it rose about the year of christ , . lotharius the emperor having found in italy a copy of the roman civil law , and being greatly taken with it , he ordained that it should be publickly taught and expounded in the schools . this he began by the direction of imerius , his chancellor at bononia ; and to give encouragement unto this employment , they ordained , that those who were the publick professors of it should be solemnly created doctors , of whom bulgarus hugolinus , with others , were the first . not long after , this rite of creating doctors was borrowed of the lawyers by divines , who publickly taught divinity in their schools . and this imitation first took place in bononia , paris and oxford . but this name is since grown a title of honour to sundry sorts of persons , whether unto any good use or purpose , or no , i know not ; but it is in use , and not worth contending about , especially , if as unto some of them , it be fairly reconcileable unto that of our saviour , matth. . . but the custom of having in the church teachers , that did publickly explain and vindicate the principles of religion , is far more ancient , and of known usage in the primitive churches . such was the practice of the church of alexandria in their school , wherein the famous panlaenus , origen and clemens were teachers ; an imitation whereof was continued in all ages of the church . and indeed , the continuation of such a peculiar work and employment , to be discharged in manner of an office , is an evidence , that originally there was such a distinct office in the church . for , although in the roman church they had instituted sundry orders of sacred officers , borrowed from the jews or gentiles , which have no resemblance unto any thing mentioned in the scripture ; yet sundry things abased and corrupted by them in church-officers , took their occasional rise from what is so mentioned . there are four opinions concerning those who are called by this name in the new testament . . some say , that no office at all is denoted by it ; it being only a general appellation of those that taught others , whether constantly or occasionally . such were the prophets in the church of corinth , that spake occasionally and in their turns , cor. . which is that which all might do who had ability for it , v. . , . . some say , it is only another name for the same office with that of a pastor , and so not to denote any distinct office ; of which mind hierom seems to be , ephes. . . others allow , that it was a distinct office , whereunto some were called and set apart in the church , but it was only to teach ( and that in a peculiar manner ) the principles of religion , but had no interest in the rule of the church , or the administration of the sacred mysteries ; so the pastor in the church was to rule and teach , and administer the sacred mysteries : the teacher to teach or instruct only , but not to rule , nor dispense the sacraments ; and the ruling elder to rule only , and neither to preach nor administer sacraments ; which hath the appearance of order , both useful and beautiful . . some judge , that it was a distinct office , but of the same nature and kind with that of the pastor , endowed with all the same powers , but differenced from it with respect unto gifts , and a peculiar kind of work allotted unto it : but this opinion hath this seeming disadvantage , that the difference between them is so small , as not to be sufficient to give a distinct denomination of officers , or to constitute a distinct office. and it may be , such a distinction in gifts will seldom appear , as that the church may be guided thereby in their choice of meet persons unto distinct offices . but scripture-testimony and rule must take place ; and i shall briefly examine all these opinions . . the first is , that this is not the name of any officer , nor is a teacher , as such , any officer in the church ; but it is used only as a general name for any that teach on any account the doctrine of the gospel . i do not indeed know of any who have in particular contended for this opinion ; but i observe that very many expositors take no farther notice of them , but as such . this seems to me to be most remote from the truth . it is true , that in the first churches , not only some , but all who had received spiritual light in the gifts of knowledge and utterance , did teach and instruct others as they had opportunity , pet. . , , , . hence , the heathen philosophers , as celsus in particular , objected to the christians of old , that they suffered sutlers , and weavers , and coblers to teach among them , which , they who knew that paul himself , their great apostle , wrought at a trade not much better , were not offended at . of this sort were the disciples mentioned , act. . . so was aquila , act. . . and the many prophets in the church of corinth , epist. chap. . . but , . the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is not used in the new testament but for a teacher with authority . the apostle john tells us , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the same with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , chap. . . or as it is written , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , mark , . . which in mixed dialect was the same with rabbi : and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , were then in use for the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; of which see job . . isa. . . now the constant signification of these words , is , a master in teaching , a teacher with authority . nor is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 used in the new testament , but for such a one . and therefore those who are called teachers , were such as were set apart unto the office of teaching , and not such as were so called from an occasional work or duty . . teachers are numbred among the officers , which christ hath given unto , and set in the church , ephes. . . cor. . . so that originally church-officers were intended by them , is beyond contradiction . . they are mentioned as those , who with others did preside in the church , and join in the publick ministrations of it , act. . , . . they are charged to attend unto the work of teaching , which none can be , but they whose office it is to teach , rom. . . it is therefore undeniable , that there is such an office as that of a teacher mentioned in the scripture . the second opinion is , that although a teacher be a church-officer , yet no distinct office is intended in that denomination . it is , say they , only another name for a pastor , the office being one and the same , the same persons being both pastors and teachers , or called by these several names , as they have other titles also ascribed unto them . so it is fallen out , and so it is usual in things of this nature , that men run into extreams ; truth pleaseth them not . in the first deviation of the church from its primitive institution , there were introduced , sundry offices in the church that were not of divine institution , borrowed partly of the jews , and partly of the gentiles , which issued in the seven orders of the church of rome . they did not utterly reject any that were of a divine original , but retained some kind of figure , shadow or image of them . but they brought in others that were meerly of their own invention . in the rejection of this exorbitancy , some are apt to run into the other extreme . they will deny and reject some of them that have a divine warranty for their original . howbeit , they are not many , nor burthensome : yea , they are all such , as without the continuation of them , the edification of the church cannot be carried on in a due manner . for unto the beauty and order of the church in its rule and worship , it is required , not only that there be many officers in each church , but also that they be of sundry sorts ; all harmony in things natural , political and ecclesiastical , arising from variety with proportion . and he that shall with calmness , and without prejudice , consider the whole work that is to be done in churches , with the end of their institution , will be able to understand the necessity of pastors , teachers , ruling-elders and deacons , for those ends , and no other . and this i hope i shall demonstrate in the consideration of these respective offices , with the duties that belong unto them , as i have considered one of them already . wherefore , as unto the opinion under present consideration , i say , . in the primitive church , about the end of the second century , before there was the least attempt to introduce new officers into the church , there were persons called unto the office and work of publick teaching , who were not pastors , nor called unto the administration of other ordinances . those of this sort , in the church of alexandria , were , by reason of their extraordinary abilities , quickly of great fame and renown . their constant work was publickly unto all comers , believers and unbelievers , to explain and teach the principles of christian religion , defending and vindicating it from the opposition of its heathen adversaries , whether atheists or philosophers . this had never been so exactly practised in the church , if it had not derived from divine institution . and of this sort is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the catechist , intended by the apostle , gal. . . for it is such an one as constantly labours in the work of preaching , and hath those who depend upon his ministry therein ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , those that are taught or catechised by him . for , hence alone it is that maintenance is due unto him for his work. let the catechised communicate unto the cathechist , the taught unto the teacher in all good things . and it is not the pastor of the church that he intends , for he speaks of him in the same case in another manner , and no where only with respect unto teaching alone . . there is a plain distinction between the offices of a pastor and a teacher , ephes. . . some pastors and teachers . this is one of the instances wherein men try their wits , in putting in exceptions unto plain scripture testimonies , as some or other do in all other cases ; which if it may be allowed , we shall have nothing left us certain in the whole book of god. the apostle enumerates distinctly all the teaching officers of the church , both extraordinary and ordinary . it is granted , that there is a difference between apostles , prophets and evangelists , but there is none , say some , between pastors and teachers ; which are also named distinctly . why so ? because there is an interposition of the article 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 between those of the former sort , and not between pastors and teachers ; a very weak consideration to controul the evidence of the design of the apostle in the words . we are not to prescribe unto him how he shall express himself . but this i know , that the discretive and copulative conjunction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and , between pastors and teachers , doth no less distinguish them the one from the other , than the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before made use of . and this i shall confirm from the words themselves . . the apostle doth not say pastors or teachers , which in congruity of speech should have been done , if the same persons and the same office were intended . and the discretive particle in the close of such an enumeration of things distinct , as that in this place , is of the same force with the other notes of distinction before used . . after he hath named pastors he nameth teachers with a note of distinction . this must contain either the addition of a new office , or be an interpretation of what went before ; as if he had said pastors , that is , teachers . if it be the latter , then the name of teachers must be added , as that which was better known than that of pastors , and more expressive of the office intended . it is declared who are meant by pastors in calling them teachers ; or else the addition of the word is meerly superfluous . but this is quite otherwise ; the name of pastor being more known as unto the indigitation of office-power and care , and more appropriated thereunto than that of teacher ; which is both a common name , not absolutely appropriated unto office , and respective of one part of the pastoral office and duty only . . no instance can be given in any place where there is an enumeration of church-officers , either by their names , as cor. . . or by their work , as rom. . , , . or by the offices themselves , as phil. . . of the same officer , at the same time to be expressed under various names , which indeed must needs introduce confusion into such an enumeration . it is true , the same officers are in the scripture called by several names , as pastors , bishops , presbyters , but if it had been said any where , that there were in the church bishops and presbyters , it must be acknowledged that they were distinct officers , as bishops and deacons are , phil. . . . the words in their first notion , are not synonymous ; for all pastors are teachers , but all teachers are not pastors ; and therefore the latter cannot be exegetical of the former . dly . as these teachers are so called and named in contradistinction unto pastors in the same place , so they have distinct office-works and duties assigned unto them in the same place also ; rom. . . he that teacheth on teaching ; he that exhorteth on exhortation . if they have especial works to attend unto distinctly , by virtue of their offices , then are their offices distinctly also ; for from one there is an especial obligation unto one sort of duties , and to another sort from the other . thly . these teachers are set in the church as in a distinct office from that of prophets ; secondarily , prophets , thirdly , teachers , cor. . . and so they are mentioned distinctly in the church of antioch , act. . . there were in the church at antioch prophets and teachers . but in both places pastors are comprized under the name of prophets ; exhortation being an especial branch of prophecy , rom. . , , . . there is a peculiar institution of maintenance for these teachers , which argues a distinct office , gal. . . from all these considerations , it appears , that the teachers mentioned in the scripture , were officers in the church distinct from pastors . for they are distinguished from them , ( . ) by their name , declarative of the especial nature of their office. ( . ) by their peculiar work , which they are to attend unto , in teaching by virtue of office. ( . ) by the distinct placing in the church as peculiar officers in it , distinct from prophets or pastors . ( . ) by the especial constitution of their necessary maintenance . ( . ) by the necessity of their work to be distinctly carried on in the church . which may suffice for the removal of the second opinion . the third is , that teachers are a distinct office in the church , but such whose office , work and power , is confined unto teaching only , so as that they have no interest in rule or the administration of the sacraments . and , . i acknowledge that this seems to have been the way and practice of the churches after the apostles . for they had ordinary catechists and teachers in assemblies like schools , that were not called unto the whole work of the ministry . . the name of a teacher , neither in its native signification , nor in its ordinary application , as expressive of the work of this office , doth extend it self beyond , or signifie any thing but the meer power and duty of teaching . it is otherwise as unto the names of pastors , bishops or overseers , elders , which as unto the two former , their constant use in scripture suited unto their signification , includes the whole work of the ministry ; and the latter is a name of dignity and rule . upon the proposal of church-officers under these names , the whole of office-power and duty is apprehended as included in them . but the name of a teacher , especially , as significant of that of rabbi among the jews , carries along with it a confinement unto an especial work or duty . . i do judge it lawful for any church , from the nature of the thing it self , scripture , general rules and directions , to choose , call and set apart meet persons unto the office , work and duty of teachers , without an interest in the rule of the church , or the administration of the holy ordinances of worship . the same thing is practised by many for the substance of it , though not in due order . and , it may be , the practice hereof duly observed , would lead us unto the original institution of this office. but , . whereas a teacher , meerly as such , hath no right unto rule or the administration of ordinances , no more than the doctors among the jews had right to offer sacrifices in the temple ; yet he who is called to be a teacher , may also at the same time be called to be an elder ; and a teaching elder hath the power of all holy administrations committed to him . . but he that is called to be a teacher in a peculiar manner , although he be an elder also , is to attend peculiarly unto that part of his work from whence he receiveth his denomination . and so i shall at present dismiss this third opinion unto farther consideration , if there be any occasion for it . the fourth opinion i rather embrace than any of the other , namely , upon a supposition that a teacher is a distinct officer in the church , his office is of the same kind with that of the pastor , though distinguished from it as unto degrees , both materially and formally : for , . they are joined with pastors in the same order as their associates in office , ephes. . . so they are with prophets , and set in the church as they are , cor. . , act. . . ( . ) they have a peculiar work of the same general nature with that of pastors assigned unto them , rom. . . being to teach or preach the gospel by virtue of office , they have the same office for substance with the pastors . ( . ) they are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the church , act. . . which comprizeth all sacred administrations . wherefore , upon the consideration of all that is spoken in the scripture concerning church-teachers , with the various conjectures of all sorts of writers about them , i shall conclude my own thoughts in some few observations , and then enquire into the state of the church , with reference unto these pastors and teachers . and i say , . there may be teachers in a church called only unto the work of teaching , without any farther interest in rule or right unto the administration of the sacraments . such they seem to be who are mentioned , gal. . . they are there called peculiarly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , catechists ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . instructors of those that are young in the rudiments of religion . and such there were in the primitive churches ; some whereof were eminent , famous and useful . and this was very necessary in those days when the churches were great and numerous . for , whereas the whole rule of the church , and the administration of all ordinances in it , is originally committed unto the pastor , as belonging entirely unto his office ; the discharge of it in all its parts , unto the edification of the church , especially when it is numerous , being impossible for any one man , or it may be more , in the same office where all are obliged unto an especial attendance on one part of it , namely , the word and prayer , it pleased the lord christ to appoint such as in distinct offices should be associated with them , for the discharge of sundry parts of their duty . so were deacons ordained to take care of the poor , and the outward concerns of the church , without any interest in rule or right to teach . so were , as we shall prove , elders ordained to assist and help in rule , without any call to preach or administer the sacraments . and so were teachers appointed to instruct the church and others in the truth , who have no right to rule , or the administration of other ordinances . and thus , although the whole duty of the edification of the church be still incumbent on the pastors , yet being supplied with assistance to all the parts of it , it may be comfortably discharged by them . and if this order were observed in all churches , not only many inconveniences would be prevented , but the order and edification of the church greatly promoted . . he who is peculiarly called to be a teacher , with reference unto a distinction from a pastor , may yet at the same time be called to be an elder also , that is to be a teaching elder . and where there is in any officer a concurrence of both these , a right unto rule as an elder , and power to teach , or preach the gospel , there is the same office and office-power , for the substance of it , as there is in the pastor . . on the foregoing supposition there yet remains a distinction between the office of a pastor and teacher ; which , as far as light may be taken from their names and distinct asscriptions unto them , consists materially in the different gifts which those to be called unto office have received , which the church in their call ought to have respect unto ; and formally in the peculiar exercise of those gifts in the discharge of their office , according unto the assignation of their especial work unto them , which themselves are to attend unto . upon what hath been before discoursed concerning the office of pastors and teachers , it may be enquired , whether there may be many of them in a particular church , or whether there ought only to be one of each sort : and i say , . take teachers in the third sence , for those who are only so , and have no farther interest in office-power , and there is no doubt , but that there may be as many of them in any church as are necessary unto its edification ; and ought so to be . and a due observation of this institution , would prevent the inconvenience of mens preaching constantly , who are in no office in the church . for although i do grant , that those who have once been regularly or solemnly set a part or ordained unto the ministry , have the right of constant preaching inherent in them , and the duty of it incumbent on them , though they may be separated from those churches , wherein and unto whom they were peculiarly ordained ; yet for men to give themselves up constantly unto the work of teaching by preaching the gospel , who never were set apart by the church thereunto , i know not that it can be justified . . if there be but one sort of elders mentioned in the scripture , it is out of all question , that there may be many pastors in the same church . for there were many elders in every church ; act. . . act. . . phil. . . tit. . . but if there are sundry sorts of elders mentioned in the scripture , as pastors , who peculiarly feed the flock , those teaching elders of whom we have spoken , and those rulers concerning whom we shall treat in the next place ; then no determination of this enquiry can be taken from the multiplication of them in any church . . it is certain , that the order very early observed in the church was one pastor , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , praeses , quickly called episcopus by way of distinction , with many elders assisting in rule and teaching , and deacons ministring in the things of this life , whereby the order of the church was preserved , and its authority represented . yet i will not deny , but that in each particular church there may be many pastors , with an equality of power , if the edification of the church doth require it . . it was the alteration of the state of the church from its primitive constitution , and deviation from its first order , by an occasional coalescency of many churches into one , by a new form of churches never appointed by christ , which came not in until after the end of the second century , that gave occasion to corrupt this order into an episcopal preheminence , which degenerated more and more into confusion under the name of order . and the absolute equality of many pastors in one and the same church , is liable unto many inconveniencies , if not diligently watched against . . wherefore , let the state of the church be preserved and kept unto its original constitution , which is congregational , and no other ; and i do judge , that the order of the officers , which was so early in the primitive church , namely , of one pastor or bishop in one church , assisted in rule and all holy administrations , with many elders teaching or ruling only , doth not so overthrow church-order , as to render its rule or discipline useless . . but whereas there is no difference in the scripture , as unto office or power intimated between bishops and presbyters , as we have proved , where there are many teaching elders in any church , an equality in office and power is to be preserved . but yet this takes not off from the due preference of the pastoral office , nor from the necessity of precedency for the observation of order in all church assemblies , nor from the consideration of the peculiar advantages , which gifts , age , abilities , prudence and experience , which may belong unto some according to rule , may give . chap. vii . of the rule of the church ; or , of ruling elders . . the rule and government of the church , or the execution of the authority of christ therein , is in the hand of the elders . all elders in office have rule ; and none have rule in the church but elders . as such , rule doth belong unto them . the apostles , by virtue of their especial office , were intrusted with all church-power ; but therefore they were elders also ; pet. . . joh. . joh. . see act. . . tim. . . they are some of them on other accounts , called bishops , pastors , teachers , ministers , guides , but what belongs unto any of them in point of rule , or what interest they have therein , it belongs unto them as elders , and not otherwise ; act. . , . so under the old testament , where the word doth not signifie a difference in age , but is used in a moral sence , elders are the same with rulers or governours , whether in offices civil or ecclesiastical ; especially the rulers of the church were constantly called its elders . and the use of the word , with the abuse of the power or office intended by it , is traduced to signifie men in authority ( signeiores , eldermani ) in all places . . church-power acted in its rule , is called the keys of the kingdom of heaven , by an expression derived from the keys that were a sign of office-power in the families of kings , isa. . . and used by our saviour himself to denote the communication of church-power unto others , which was absolutely and universally vested in himself under the name of the key of david ; revel . . . mat. . . . these keys are usually referred unto two heads ; namely , the one of order , the other of jurisdiction . . by the key of order , the spiritual right , power , and authority of bishops or pastors to preach the word , to administer the sacraments , doctrinally to bind and loose the consciences of men , are intended . . by jurisdiction , the rule , government , or discipline of the church is designed , though it was never so called or esteemed in the scripture or the primitive church , until the whole nature of church-rule or discipline was depraved and changed . therefore , neither the word , nor any thing that is signified by it , or which it is applied unto , ought to be admitted unto any consideration in the things that belong unto the church or its rule ; it being expressive of , and directing unto that corrupt administration of things ecclesiastical , according unto the canon law , by which all church-rule and order is destroyed . i do therefore at once dismiss all disputes about it , as of things foreign to the gospel and christian religion , i mean as unto the institutions of christ in his church . the civil jurisdiction of supreme magistrates about the externals of religion , is of another consideration . but that these keys do include the two-fold distinct powers of teaching and rule , of doctrine and discipline , is freely granted . . in the church of england , ( as in that of rome ) there is a peculiar distribution made of these keys . unto some , that is unto one special sort or order of men , they are both granted , both the key of order and of jurisdiction ; which is unto diocesan bishops , with some others under various canonical restrictions and limitations , as deans and arch-deacons . unto some is granted the key of order only , without the least interest in jurisdiction or rule by virtue of their office ; which are the parochial ministers , or meer presbyters , without any additional title or power , as of commissary surrogates , or the like . and unto a third sort , there is granted the key of rule or jurisdiction almost plenipotent , who have no share in the key of order , that is , were never ordained , separated , dedicated unto any office in the church ; such as are the chancellors , &c. . these chancellors are the only lay-elders that i know any where in any church ; that is , persons entrusted with the rule of the church , and the disposition of its censures , who are not ordained unto any church-office ; but in all other things continue in the order of the laity or the people . all church rulers , by institution , are elders . to be an elder of the church , and a ruler in it , is all one . wherefore , these persons being rulers in the church , and yet thus continuing in the order of the people , are lay-elders ; whom i wonder how so many of the church came so seriously to oppose , seeing this order of men is owned by none but themselves . the truth is , and it must be acknowledged , that there is no known church in the world , ( i mean whose order is known unto us , and is of any publick consideration , ) but they do dispose the rule of the church in part , into the hands of persons , who have not the power of authoritative preaching of the word , and administration of the sacraments committed unto them . for even those who place the whole external rule of the church in the civil magistrate , do it , as they judge him an officer of the church , entrusted by christ with church-power . and those who deny any such officers as are usually called ruling elders in the reformed churches to be of divine institution , yet maintain that it is very necessary that there should be such officers in the church , either appointed by the magistrate , or chosen by the people , and that with cogent arguments . see grot. de jure potestat . cap. . but this distribution mentioned of church-power , is unscriptural ; nor is there any foot-steps of it in antiquity . it is so as unto the two latter branches of it . that any one should have the power of order to preach the word , to administer the seals , to bind and loose the conscience doctrinally ; or ministerially to bind and loose in the court of conscience , and yet by the virtue of that office which gives them this power , not to have a right and power of rule or discipline to bind and loose in the court of the church , is that , which neither the scripture , nor any example of the primitive church doth give countenance unto . and as by this means , those are abridged and deprived of their power , to whom it is granted by the institution and law of christ , as it is with all elders duly called unto their office ; so in the third branch there is a grant of church-power unto such , as by the law of christ , are excluded from any interest therein . the enormity of which constitution , i shall not at present insist upon . but enquiry must be made what the scripture directs unto herein : and , . there is a work and duty of rule in the church , distinct from the work and duty of pastoral ▪ feeding , by the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments . all agree herein , unless it be erastus and those that follow him , who seem to oppose it . but their arguments lie not against rule in general , which were brutish , but only a rule by external jurisdiction in the elders of the church . so they grant the general assertion of the necessity of rule , for who can deny it ? only they contend about the subject of power required thereunto . a spiritual rule by virtue of mutual voluntary confederation , for the preservation of peace , purity and order in the church , few of that opinion deny ; at least it is not that which they do oppose . for to deny all rule and discipline in the church , with all administration of censures in the exercise of a spiritual power internally inherent in the church , is to deny the church to be a spiritual political society , overthrow its nature , and frustrate its institution in direct opposition unto the scripture . that there is such a rule in the christian church , see act. . . rom. . . cor. . . tim. . . chap. . . heb. . , . revel . . . . different and distinct gifts are required unto the discharge of these distinct works and duties . this belongs unto the harmony of the dispensation of the gospel . gifts are bestowed to answer all duties prescribed . hence they are the first foundation of all power , work and duty in the church . vnto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of christ , that is , ability for duty , according to the measure wherein christ is pleased to grant it ; ephes. . . there are diversities of gifts , but the same spirit ; and the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal , cor. . , , , , . having then gifts differing according to the grace given unto us , &c. rom. . , , . wherefore , as every man hath received the gift , so are they to minister the same , as good stewards of the manifold grace of god , pet. . . hence are they called the powers of the world to come , heb. . , . wherefore , differing gifts , are the first foundation of differing offices and duties . . that differing gifts are required unto the different works of pastoral teaching on the one hand , and practical rule on the other , is evident , ( . ) from the light of reason , and the nature of the works themselves being so different . and , ( . ) from experience ; some men are fitted by gifts , for the dispensation of the word and doctrine in a way of pastoral feeding , who have no useful ability in the work of rule ; and some are fitted for rule , who have no gifts for the discharge of the pastoral work in preaching . yea , it is very seldom that both these sorts of gifts do concurr in any eminency in the same persons , or without some notable defect . those who are ready to assume all things unto themselves , are for the most part fit for nothing at all . and hence it is , that most of those who esteem both these works to belong principally unto them , do almost totally decline the one , or that of pastoral preaching , under a pretence of attending unto the other , that is , rule , in a very preposterous way ; for they omit that which is incomparably the greater and more worthy , for that which is less and inferior unto it , although it should be attended unto in a due manner . but this , and sundry other things of the like nature , proceed from the corruption of that traditional notion , which is true in it self and continued among all sorts of christians ; namely , that there ought to be some on whom the rule of the church is in an especial manner incumbent , and whose principal work it is to attend thereunto . for the great depravations of all church government , proceed from the corruption and abuse of this notion , which in it self , and its original , is true and sacred . herein also , malum habitat in alieno fundo . there is no corruption in church-order or rule , but is corruptly derived from , or is set up as an image of some divine institution . . the work of rule , as distinct from teaching , is in general to watch over the walking or conversation of the members of the church with authority , exhorting , comforting , admonishing , reproving , incouraging , directing of them , as occasion shall require . the gifts necessary hereunto , are diligence , wisdom , courage and gravity , as we shall see afterwards . the pastoral work , is principally to reveal the whole counsel of god , to divide the word aright , or to labour in the word and doctrine , both as unto the general dispensation , and particular application of it , in all seasons , and on all occasions . hereunto spiritual wisdom , knowledge , sound judgment , experience and vtterance are required , all to be improved by continual study of the word and prayer . but this difference of gifts , unto these distinct works , doth not of it self constitute distinct offices , because the same persons may be meetly furnished with those of both sorts . . yet distinct works and duties , though some were furnished with gifts for both , was a ground in the wisdom of the holy ghost , for distinct offices in the church , where one sort of them were as much as those of one office could ordinarily attend unto , act. . , , . ministration unto the poor of the church , for the supply of their temporal necessities , is an ordinance of christ. the administration hereof , the apostles were furnished for with gifts and wisdom above all others : but yet , because there was another part of their work and duty superior hereunto , and of greater necessity unto the propagation of the gospel and edification of the church , namely , a diligent attendance unto the word and prayer , the wisdom of the holy ghost in them thought meet to erect a new office in the church , for the discharge of that part of the ministerial duty which was to be attended unto ; yet , not so as to be any obstruction unto the other . i do not observe this , as if it were lawful for any others after them to do the same ; namely , upon a supposition of an especial work , to erect an especial office. only i would demonstrate from hence , the equity and reasonable ground of that institution , which we shall afterwards evince . . the work of the ministry in prayer , and preaching of the word , or labour in the word and doctrine , whereunto the administration of the seals of the covenant is annexed , with all the duties that belong unto the especial application of these things before insisted on , unto the flock ; are ordinarily sufficient to take up the whole man , and the utmost of their endowments who are called unto the pastoral office in the church . the very nature of the work in it self is such , as that the apostle giving a short description of it , adds as an intimation of its greatness and excellency , who is sufficient for these things ? cor. . . and the manner of its performance adds unto its weight . for not to mention that intension of mind in the exercise of faith , love , zeal and compassion , which is required of them in the discharge of their whole office ; the diligent consideration of the state of the flock , so as to provide spiritual food convenient for them ; with a constant attendance unto the issues and effects of the word in the consciences and lives of men ; is enough for the most part to take up their whole time and strength . it is gross ignorance or negligence that occasioneth any to be otherwise minded . as the work of the ministry is generally discharged , as consisting only in a weekly provision of sermons , and the performance of some stated offices by reading , men may have time and liberty enough to attend unto other occasions . but in such persons we are not at present concerned . our rule is plain , tim. . , , , , . . it doth not hence follow , that those who are called unto the ministry of the word , as pastors and teachers , who are elders also , are devested of the right of rule in the church , or discharged from the exercise of it , because others not called unto their office , are appointed to be assistant unto them ; that is , helps in the government . for the right and duty of rule is inseparable from the office of elders which all bishops or pastors are . the right is still in them , and the exercise of it consistent with their more excellent work , is required of them . so was it in the first institution of the sanhedrim in the church of israel ; exod. . , , , , , , . moses had before the sole rule and government of the people . in the addition that was made of an eldership for his assistance , there was no diminution of his right , or the exercise of it according to his precedent power . and the apostles , in the constitution of elders in every church , derogated nothing from their own authority , nor discharged themselves of their care . so when they appointed deacons to take care of supplies for the poor , they did not forgo their own right , nor the exercise of their duty as their other work would permit them , gal. . , . and in particular , the apostle paul manifested his concernment herein , in the care he took about collection for the poor in all churches . . as we observed at the entrance of this chapter , the whole work of the church , as unto authoritative teaching and rule , is committed unto the elders . for authoritative teaching and ruling , is teaching and ruling by virtue of office : and this office whereunto they do belong , is that of elders , as it is undeniably attested , act. . , &c. all that belongs unto the care , inspection , oversight , rule and instruction of the church , is committed unto the elders of it expresly . for elders is a name derived from the jews , denoting them that have authority in the church . the first signification of the word in all languages respects age. elders are old men , well stricken in years ; unto whom respect and reverence is due by the law of nature and scripture command ; unless they forfeit their privilege by levity or wickedness , which they often do . now ancient men were originally judged , if not only , yet the most meet for rule , and were before others constantly called thereunto . hence , the name of elders was appropriated unto them , who did preside and rule over others in any kind . only it may be observed , that there is in the scripture no mention of rulers that are called elders , but such as are in a subordinate power and authority only . those who were in supream absolute power , as kings and princes , are never called elders . but elders by office , were such only as had a ministerial power under others . wherefore , the highest officers in the christian church being called elders , even the apostles themselves , and peter in particular , epist. chap. . v. . . it is evident , that they have only a ministerial power ; and so it is declared ver . . the pope would now scarce take it well to be esteemed only an elder of the church of rome ; unless it be in the same sence wherein the turkish monarch is called the grand signior . but those who would be in the church above elders , have no office in it , whatever usurpation they may make over it . . to the compleat constitution of any particular church , or the perfection of its organical state , it is required that there be many elders in it ; at least more than one . in this proposition lies the next foundation of the truth which we plead for , and therefore it must be distinctly considered . i do not determine what their number ought to be ; nor is it determinable , as unto all churches . for the light of nature sufficiently directs , that it is to be proportioned unto the work and end designed . where a church is numerous , there is a necessity of encreasing their number proportionable unto their work. in the days of cyprian there was in the church of carthage ten or twelve of them that are mentioned by name ; and at the same time , there were a great many in the church of rome under cornelius . where the churches are small , the number of elders may be so also . for no office is appointed in the church for pomp or show , but for labour only . and so many are necessary in each office as are able to discharge the work which is allotted unto them . but that church , be it small or great , is not compleat in its state , is defective , which hath not more elders than one ; who have not so many as are sufficient for their work. . the government of the church , in the judgment and practice of some , is absolutely democratical or popular . they judge that all church-power or authority , is seated and setled in the community of the brethren or body of the people . and they look on elders or ministers , only as servants of the church ; not only materially in the duties they perform , and finally for their edification , serving for the good of the church , in the things of the church ; but formally also , as acting the authority of the church by a meer delegation , and not any of their own received directly from christ , by virtue of his law and institution . hence , they do occasionally appoint persons among themselves not called unto , not vested with any office , to administer the supper of the lord , or any other solemn offices of worship . on this principle and supposition , i see no necessity of any elders at all , though usually they do conferr this office , on some with solemnity . but as among them , there is no direct necessity of any elders for rule , so we treat not at present concerning them . . some place the government of many particular churches in a diocesan bishop , with those that act under him , and by his authority , according unto the rule of the canon law , and the civil constitution of the land. these are so far from judging it necessary that there should be many elders for rule in every particular church , as that they allow no rule in them at all , but only assert a rule over them . but a church , where there is no rule in it self , to be exercised in the name of christ by its own rulers , officers , guides , immediatly presiding in it , is unknown to scripture and antiquity . wherefore , with these we deal not in this discourse ; nor have any apprehension , that the power of presenting men , for any pretended disorder , unto the bishops or chancellors court , is any part of church-power or rule . . others place the rule of particular churches , especially in cases of greatest moment , in an association , conjunction or combination of all the elders of them in one society , which is commonly called a classis . so in all acts of rule , there will be a conjunct acting of many elders . and , no doubt it is the best provision that can be made on a supposition of the continuance of the present parochial distribution . but those also of this judgment , who have most weighed and considered the nature of these things , do assert the necessity of many elders in every particular church , which is the common judgment and practice of the reformed churches in all places . . and some there are , who begin to maintain , that there is no need of any more but one pastor , bishop , or elder , in a particular church , which hath its rule in its self ; other elders for rule being unnecessary . this is a novel opinion , contradictory to the sence and practice of the church in all ages . and i shall prove the contrary . . the pattern of the first churches constituted by the apostles , which it is our duty to imitate and follow as our rule , constantly expresseth and declares , that many elders were appointed by them in every church , act. . . chap. . . chap. . , , , . chap. . . chap. . , &c. tim. . . phil. . . tit. . . pet. . . there is no mention in the scripture , no mention in antiquity , of any church wherein there was not more elders than one , nor doth that church answer the original pattern , where it is otherwise . . where there is but one elder in a church , there cannot be an eldership or presbytery ; as there cannot be a senate where there is but one senator ; which is contrary unto tim. . . . the continuation of every church in its original state and constitution , is , since the ceasing of extraordinary offices and powers , committed to the care and power of the church it self . hereunto the calling and ordaining of ordinary officers , pastors , rulers , elders , teachers , do belong . and therein , as we have proved , both the election of the people , submitting themselves unto them in the lord , and the solemn setting of them apart by imposition of hands , do concurr . but if there be but one elder only in a church , upon his death or removal , this imposition of hands must either be left unto the people , or be supplied by elders of other churches ; or be wholly omitted , all which are irregular . and that church-order is defective , which wants the symbol of authoritative ordination . . it is difficult , if not impossible , on a supposition of one elder only in a church , to preserve the rule of the church from being prelatical or popular . there is nothing more frequently objected unto those who dissent from diocesan bishops , than that they would every one be bishops in their own parishes , and unto their own people . all such pretences are excluded on our principles , of the liberty of the people , of the necessity of many elders in the same church in an equality of power , and the communion of other churches in association : but practically where there is but one elder , one of the extreams can be hardly avoided . if he rule by himself , without the previous advice in some cases , as well as the subsequent consent of the church , it hath an eye of unwarrantable prelacy in it : if every thing be to be originally transacted , disposed , ordered by the whole society , the authority of the elder will quickly be insignificant , and he will be little more in point of rule , than any other brother of the society . but all these inconveniencies are prevented by the fixing of many elders in each church , which may maintain the authority of the presbytery , and free the church from the despotical rule of any diotr●phes . but in case there be but one in any church , unless he have wisdom to maintain the authority of the eldership in his own person and actings , there is no rule but confusion . . the nature of the work whereunto they are called , requires , that in every church consisting in any considerable number of members , there should be more elders than one. when god first appointed rule in the church under the old testament , he assigned unto every ten persons , or families , a distinct ruler , deut. . . for the elders are to take care of the walk or conversation of all the members of the church , that it be according unto the rule of the gospel . this rule is eminent as unto the holiness that it requires , above all other rules of moral conversation whatever . and there is in all the members of the church great accuracy and circumspection required in their walking after it and according unto it . the order also and decency which is required in all church-assemblies , stands in need of exact care and inspection . that all these things can be attended unto , and discharged in a due manner in any church by one elder , is for them only to suppose who know nothing of them . and , although there may be an appearance for a season of all these things in such churches , yet there being not therein a due compliance with the wisdom and institution of christ , they have no present beauty , nor will be of any long continuance . these considerations , as also those that follow , may seem jejune and contemptible unto such as have another frame of church-rule and order drawn in their minds and interests . a government vested in some few persons , with titles of preheminence and legal power , exercised in courts with coercive jurisdiction , by the methods and processes of canons of their own framing , is that which they suppose doth better become the grandeur of church-rulers , and the state of the church , than these creeping elders with their congregations . but , whereas our present enquiry after these things , is only in and out of the scripture , wherein there is neither shadow nor appearance of any of these practices , i beg their pardon , if at present i consider them not . . we shall now make application of these things unto our present purpose . i say then , ( . ) whereas there is a work of rule in the church , distinct from that of pastoral feeding . ( . ) whereas this work is to be attended unto with diligence , which includes the whole duty of him that attends unto it . and , ( . ) that the ministry of the word and prayer , with all those duties that accompany it , is a full employment for any man , and so consequently his principal and proper work , which it is unlawful for him to be remiss in by attending on another with diligence . and , ( . ) whereas there ought to be many elders in every church , that both the works of teaching and ruling may be constantly attended unto . ( . ) that in the wisdom of the holy ghost , distinct works did require distinct offices for their discharge ; all which we have proved already ; our enquiry hereon is , whether the same holy spirit , hath not distinguished this office of elders into those two sorts , namely , those who are called unto teaching and rule also ; and those who are called unto rule only , which we affirm . the testimonies whereby the truth of this assertion is confirmed , are generally known and pleaded ; i shall insist on some of them only , beginning with that which is of uncontroulable evidence , if it had any thing to conflict withal but prejudices and interest ; and this is tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is praesum , praesidio ; to preside , to rule . praesident probati seniores . tertull. and the bishop or pastor in justin martyr , is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . so is the word constantly used in the new testament , rom. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that ruleth ; thess. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that are over them , that is , in place of rule , tim. . , , . it is applied unto family rule and government , as it is also unto care and diligence about good works , tit. . . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the whole presidency in the church , with respect unto its rule . translators agree in the reading of these words , so the hebrew of munster , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the elders of the congregation who well discharge their rule or conduct . so the syriack , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , those elders . qui bene praesunt presbyteri ; vul lat. seniori che governano bene ; ital. all agree that it is the governours and the government of the church in general that is here intended . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the word most controverted . all translators esteem it distinctive , heb. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , eminently ; syr. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , chiefly , principally ; maxime . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who labour painfully , labour to weariness ; travail in the word and doctrine . the elders or presbyters in office , elders of the church that rule well , or discharge their presidency for rule in due manner , are worthy , or ought to be reputed worthy of double honour ; especially those of them who labour , or are ingaged in the great labour and travail of the word and doctrine . and some things may be observed in general concerning these words . . this testimony relates directly unto the rules and principles before laid down , directing unto the practice of them . according to the analogy of these principles , these words are to be interpreted . and unless they are overthrown , it is to no purpose to put in exceptions against the sence of this or that word ; the interpretation of them is to be suited unto the analogy of the things which they relate unto . if we consider not what is spoken here in consent with other scriptures treating of the same matter , we depart from all sober rules of interpretation . . on this supposition , the words of the text have a plain and obvious signification , which at first view presents it self unto the common sence and understanding of all men. and where there is nothing contrary unto any other divine testimony , or evident reason , such a sence is constantly to be embraced . there is nothing here of any spiritual mystery ; but only a direction concerning outward order in the church . in such , cases the literal sence of the words rationally apprehended , is all that we are concerned in . but on the first proposal of this text , that the elders that rule well , are worthy of double honour , especially those who labour in the word and doctrine ; a rational man who is unprejudiced , who never heard of the controversy about ruling elders , can hardly avoid an apprehension that there are two sort of elders , some that labour in the word and doctrine , and some who do not so do . the truth is , it was interest and prejudice that first caused some learned men to strain their wits to find out evasions from the evidence of this testimony : being so found out , some others of meaner abilities have been entangled by them . for there is not one new argument advanced in this cause , not one exception given in unto the sence of the place which we plead for , but what was long since coined by papists and prelatists , and mannaged with better colours than some now are able to lay on them , who pretend unto the same judgment . . this is the substance of the truth in the text. there are elders in the church ; there are or ought to be so in every church . with these elders the whole rule of the church is intrusted ; all these , and only they , do rule in it . of these elders there are two sorts , for a description is given of one sort distinctive from the other , and comparative with it . the first sort doth rule , and also labour in the word and doctrine . that these works are distinct and different was before declared . yet , as distinct works , they are not incompatible , but are committed unto the same person . they are so unto them , who are not elders only , but moreover pastors or teachers . unto pastors and teachers , as such , there belongs no rule ; although , by the institution of christ , the right of rule be inseparable from their office. for all that are rightfully called thereunto are elders also , which gives them an interest in rule . they are elders with the addition of pastoral or teaching authority . but there are elders which are not pastors or teachers . for there are some who rule well , but labour not in the word and doctrine ; that is , who are not pastors or teachers . elders that rule well , but labour not in the word and doctrine , are ruling elders only ; and such are in the text. the most learned of our protestant adversaries in this case , ●re erastus , bilson , sarravia , downham , scultetus , mead , grotius , hamond ; who agree not at all among themselves about the sence of the words : for , . their whole design and endeavour is to put in exceptions against the obvious sence and interpretation of the words , not fixing on any determinate exposition of it themselves , such as they will abide by in opposition unto any other sence of the place . now this is most sophistical way of arguing upon testimonies , and suited only to make controversies endless . whose wit is so barren , as not to be able to raise one exception or other against the plainest and most evident testimony ? so the socinians deal with us , in all the testimonies we produce to prove the deity or satisfaction of christ. they suppose it enough to evade their force , if they can but pretend that the words are capable of another sence ; although they will not abide by it , that this or that is their sence . for if they would do so , when that is overthrown the truth would be established . but every testimony of the scripture hath one determinate sence . when this is contended about , it is equal that those at difference do express their apprehensions of the mind of the holy spirit in the word which they will abide by . when this is done , let it be examined and tried , whether of the two sences pretended unto , doth best comply with the signification and use of the words , the context or scope of the place , other scripture testimonies , and the analogy of faith. no such rule is attended unto in this case by our adversaries . they think it enough to oppose our sence of the words , but will not fix upon any of their own , which if it be disproved , ours ought to take place . and hence , . they do not in the least agree among themselves , scarce any two of them , on what is the most probable sence of the words , nor are any of them singly , well resolved what application to make of them , nor unto what persons ; but only propose things as their conjecture . but of very many opinions or conjectures that are advanced in this case , all of them but of one , are accompanied with the modesty of granting that divers sorts of elders are here intended , which , without more than ordinary confidence , cannot be denied : but , some by elders that rule well , do understand bishops that are diocesans ; and by those that labour in the word and doctrine , ordinary preaching presbyters ; which plainly gives them the advantage of preheminence , reverence and maintenance above the other . some by elders that rule well , understand ordinary bishops and presbyters ; and by those that labour in the word and doctrine , evangelists ; so carrying the text out of the present concernment of the church , deacons are esteemed by some to have an interest in the rule of the church , and so to be intended in the first place ; and preaching ministers in the latter . some speak of two sorts of elders , both of the same order , or ministers ; some that preach the word and administer the sacraments ; and others that are imployed about inferior offices , as reading , and the like , which is the conceit of scultetus . mr. mede weighs most of these conjectures , and at length prefers one of his own before them all ; namely , that by elders that rule well , civil magistrates are intended ; and by those that labour in the word and doctrine , the ministers of the gospel . but some discerning the weakness and improbability of all these conjectures ; and how easily they may be disproved , betake themselves unto a direct denial of that which seems to be plainly asserted in the text ; namely , that there are two sorts of elders here intended and described , which they countenance themselves in , by exception unto the application of some terms in the text , which we shall immediately consider . grotivs , as was before intimated , disputes against the divine institution of such temporary lay-elders as are made use of in sundry of the reformed churches . but when he hath done , he affirms , that it is highly necessary that such conjunct associates in rule from among the people , should be in every church ; which he proves by sundry arguments . and these he would have either nominated by the magistrate , or chosen by the people . wherefore , omitting all contests about the forementioned conceits , or any other of the like nature , i shall propose one argument from these words , and vindicate it from the exceptions of those of the latter sort . preaching elders , although they rule well , are not worthy of double honour , unless they labour in the word and doctrine . bvt there are elders who rule well that are worthy of double honour , though they do not labour in the word and doctrine . therefore , there are elders that rule well , who are not teaching or preaching elders , that is who are ruling elders only . the proposition is evident in its own light from the very terms of it . for to preach , is to labour in the word and doctrine : preaching or teaching elders , that do not labour in the word and doctrine , are preaching or teaching elders that do not preach or teach . and to say that preachers , whose office and duty is to preach , are worthy of that double honour which is due on the account of preaching , though they do not preach , is uncouth and irrational . it is contrary to the scripture , and the light of nature , as implying a contradiction , that a man whose office it is to teach and preach , should be esteemed worthy of double honour on the account of his office , who doth not as an officer teach or preach . the assumption consists upon the matter , in the very , words of the apostle . for he who says , the elders who rule well , are worthy of double honour , especially they who labour in the word and doctrine , saith there are , or may be elders who rule well , who do not labour in the word and doctrine , that is , who are not obliged so to do . the argument from these words may be otherwise framed , but this contains the plain sence of this testimony . sundry things are excepted unto this testimony and our application of it . those which are of any weight consist in a contest about two words in the text , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; some place their confidence of evasion in one of them , and some in another ; the argument from both being inconsistent . if that sence of one of these words which is pleaded as a relief against this testimony be embraced , that which unto the same purpose is pretended to be the sence of the other , must be rejected . such shifts doth an opposition unto the truth , put men to . . some say that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , especially , is not distinctive , but descriptive only ; that is , it doth not distinguish one sort of elders from another ; but only describes that single sort of them by an adjunct of their office , whereof the apostle speaks . the meaning of it , they say , is as much as , seeing that . the elders that rule well , are worthy of double honour ; seeing that they also labour ; or especially considering that they labour , &c. that this is the sence of the word , that it is thus to be interpreted , must be proved from the authority of ancient translations , or the use of it in other places of the new testament , or from its precise signification and application in other authors learned in this language ; or that it is inforced from the context , or matter treated of . but none of these can be pretended . . the rendring of the word in old translations we have before considered . they agree in maxime illi qui ; which is distinctive . . the use of it in other places of the new testament is constantly distinctive , whether applied to things or persons , act. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sorrowing chiefly at the word , of seeing his face no more . their sorrow herein was distinct from all their other trouble , gal. . . let us do good unto all ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but chiefly , especially , unto the houshould of faith. it puts a distinction between the houshold of faith and all others , by virtue of their especial privilege ; which is the direct use of the word in that place of the same apostle , phil. . . all the saints salute you ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , especially they that are of caesar's house . two sorts of saints are plainly expressed ; first such as were so in general ; such as were so also , but under this especial privilege and circumstance , that they were of caesar's house , which the others were not ; as it is here with respect unto elders : all rule well , but some moreover labour in the word and doctrine , tim. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if a man provide not for his own , especial those of his own house ; especially children or servants , which live in his own house , and are thereby distinguished from others of a more remote relation . tim. . . bring the books ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , especially the parchments ; not because they are parchments ; but among the books , the parchments in particular , and in an especial manner . pet. . , . the lord knows how to reserve the wicked to the day of judgment to be punished ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. especially those that walk after the flesh ; who shall be singled out to exemplary punishment . it is but once more used in the new testament ; namely , act. . . where it includes a distinction in the thing under consideration . whereas this is the constant use of the word in the scripture , ( being principally used by this apostle in his writings ) wherein it is distinctive and comparative of the things and persons , that respect is had unto ; it is to no purpose to pretend that it is here used in another sence , or is otherwise applied ; unless they can prove from the context that there is a necessity of their peculiar interpretation of it . . the use of the word , in other authors , is concurrent with that of it in the scripture , herodian . lib. . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the syrians are naturally lovers of fetivals ; especially they that dwell at antioch . it is the same phrase of speech with that here used . for all they that dwelt at antioch were syrians ; but all the syrians dwelt not at antioch . there is a distinction and distribution made of the syrians into two sorts : such as were syrians only , and such as being syrians , dwelt at antioch , the metropolis of the country . if a man should say , that all english men were stout and couragious , especially the londoners ; he would both affirm the londoners to be englishmen , and distinguish them from the rest of their country-men . so , all that labour in the word and doctrine , are elders ; but all elders do not labour in the word and doctrine , nor is it their duty so to do ; these we call ruling elders and , as i judge , rightly . . the sence which the words will give being so interpreted , as that a distinction of elders is not made in them , is absurd ; the subject and predicate of the proposition being terms convertible ; it must be so , if the proposition be not allowed to have a distinction in it . one sort of elders only , it is said are here intended . i ask who they are , and of what sort ? it is said , the same with pastors and teachers , or ministers of the gospel . for if the one sort of elders intended , be of another sort , we obtain what we plead for , as fully as if two sorts were allowed . who then are these elders , these pastors and teachers , these ministers of the church ? are they not those who labour in the word and doctrine ? yes , it will be said , it is they and no other . then this is the sence of the words ; those who labour in the word and doctrine , that rule well , are worthy of double honour , especially if they labour in the word and doctrine . for if there be but one sort of elders ; then elders , and those that labour in the word and doctrine , are terms convertible . but elders , and labour in the word and doctrine , are subject and praedicate in this proposition . wherefore , there are few of any learning or judgment , that make use of this evasion ; but allowing a distinction to be made , they say , that it is as to work and employment , and not as unto office. those who in the disharge of their office as elders do so labour as is intended and included in the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which denotes a peculiar kind of work in the ministry : yea , say some , this word denotes the work of an evangelist , who was not confined unto any one place ; but travelled up and down the world to preach the gospel . and those of this mind do allow , that two sorts of elders are intended in the words . let us see whether they have any better success in this their conjecture , than the others have in the former answer . . i grant , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the word here used , signifies to labour with pains and diligence , ad ultimum virium , usque ad fatigationem ; unto the utmost of mens strength , and unto weariness . but , . so to labour in the word and doctrine , is the duty of all pastors and teachers ; and who ever doth not so labour , is negligent in his office , and worthy of severe blame , instead of double honour . for , . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whence is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is the labour of a minister ; and so of any minister in his work of teaching and preaching the gospel , cor. . . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every one ( that is every one employed in the ministry , whether to plant or to water ; to convert men , or to edifie the church ) shall receive his own reward , according to his own labour . he that doth not strive , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the ministry , shall never receive a reward , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to his own labour ; and so is not worthy of double honour . . it is a general word used to express the work of any , in the service of god ; whereon it is applied unto the prophets and teachers under the old testament , joh. . . i sent you to reap that whereon you bestowed no labour ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , others have laboured , and you have entered into their labours : that is of the prophets and john the baptist. yea , it is so unto the labour that women may take in the serving of the church , rom. . . salute mary , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who laboured much ; which is more than simply 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , vers. . salute tryphoena and tryphosa , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who laboured in the lord. vers. . salute the beloved persis , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , who laboured much in the lord. so wide from truth is it , that this word should signifie a labour peculiar to some sorts of ministers , which all are not in common obliged unto . . if the labour of evangelists , or of them who travelled up and down to preach the word be intended , then it is so , either because this is the proper signification of the word , or because it is constantly used elsewhere to express that kind of labour . but the contrary unto both of these is evident from all places wherein it is used . so is it expresly applied to fixed elders , thess. . . we exhort you , brethren , to know , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , them that labour among you ; who are the rulers and instructers . it is therefore evident , that this word expresseth no more but what is the ordinary indispensable duty of every teaching elder , pastor or minister , and if it be so , then those elders , that is pastors or teachers , that do not perform and discharge it , are not worthy of double honour . nor would the apostle give any countenance unto them , who were any way remiss or negligent , in comparison of others , in the discharge of their duty ; see thess. . . there are therefore two sorts of duties confessedly here mentioned and commanded ; the first is ruling well , the other labouring in the word and doctrine . suppose that both these , ruling , and teaching , are committed to one sort of persons only , having one and the same office absolutely , then are some commended who do not discharge their whole duty , at least not comparatively unto others ; which is a vain imagination . that both of them are committed unto one sort of elders , and one of them only unto another , each discharging its duty with respect unto its work , and so both worthy of honour , is the mind of the apostle . that which is objected from the following verse , namely , that maintenance belongs unto this double honour , and so , consequently , that if there be elders that are employed in the work of rule only , that maintenance is due unto them from the church ; i answer , it is so no doubt ; if , ( . ) the church be able to make them an allowance . ( . ) if their work be such as to take up the whole or the greatest part of their industry ; and , ( . ) if they stand in need of it : without which considerations , it may be dispensed withal ; not only in them , but in teaching elders also . our next testimony is from the same apostle , rom. . , . . having then gifts differing according unto the grace given unto us , whether prophecy , let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith ; or ministry , let us wait on our ministry ; or he that teacheth on teaching ; or he that exhorts on exhortation , he that giveth let him do it with simplicity , he that ruleth with diligence , he that sheweth mercy with cheerfulness . our argument from hence is this ; there is in the church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 one that ruleth ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to rule with authority by virtue of office , whence is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , one that presides over others with authority . for the discharge of their office , there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a differing peculiar gift bestowed on some ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ver . . and there is the especial manner prescribed for the discharge of this especial office , by virtue of that especial gift ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it is to be done with peculiar diligence . and this ruler is distinguished from him that exhorteth , and him that teacheth , with whose especial work , as such , he hath nothing to do ; even as they are distinguished from those who give and shew mercy . that is , there is an elder by office in the church , whose work and duty it is to rule , not to exhort or teach ministerially , which is our ruling elder . it is answered , that the apostle doth not treat in this place of offices , functions , or distinct officers ; but of differing gifts , in all the members of the church , which they are to exercise according as their different nature doth require . sundry things i shall return hereunto , which will both explain the context , and vindicate our argument . . those with whom we have to do principally , allow no exercise of spiritual gifts in the church , but by virtue of office. wherefore , a distinct exercise of them is here placed in distinct officers ; one , as we shall see , being expresly distinguished from another . . give such a probable enumeration of the distinct offices in the church , which they assert , namely , of arch-bishops , bishops , presbyters , and chancellors , &c. and we shall yield the cause . . gifts alone do no more , give no other warranty nor authority , but only render men meet for their exercise , as they are called , and as occasion doth require . if a man hath received a gift of teaching , but is not called to office , he is not obliged nor warranted thereby , to attend on publick teaching , nor is it required of him in a way of duty , nor given in charge unto him , as here it is . . there is in one , rule required with diligence . he is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a ruler ; and it is required of him that he attend unto his work with diligence . and there are but two things required unto the confirmation of our thesis . ( . ) that this rule is an act of office-power . ( . ) that he unto whom it is ascribed , is distinguished from them unto whom the pastoral and other offices in the church are committed . for the first , it is evident that rule is an act of office or of office-power : for it requires , ( . ) an especial relation ; there is so between him that ruleth , and them that are ruled ; and this is the relation of office , or all confusion will ensue . ( . ) especial prelation . he that rules , is over , is above them that are ruled ; obey them that are over you in the lord ▪ this in the church cannot be in any , but by virtue of office ▪ ( . ) especial authority . all lawful rule is an act of authority ; and there is no authority in the church , but by virtue of office. secondly , that this officer is distinct from all others in the church , we shall immediately demonstrate , when we have a little further cleared the context . wherefore , . it is confessed that respect is had unto gifts ; having different gifts , ver . , . as all office-power in the church is founded in them , ephes. . , , , , . but gifts , absolutely with reference unto common use , are not intended , as in some other places . but they are spoken of with respect unto offices or functions , and the communication of them unto officers , for the discharge of their office. this is evident from the text and context , with the whole design of the place : for , . the analysis of the place directs unto this interpretation . three sorts of duties are prescribed unto the church in this chapter . ( . ) such as are vniversal , belonging absolutely unto all , and every one that appertains unto it ; which are declared ver . . . ( . ) such as are peculiar unto some , by virtue of that especial place which they have in the church , ver . , , , , , . this can be nothing but office. ( . ) such as are general or common , with respect unto occasions , from ver . . to the end of the chapter . hence the same duty is doubly prescribed ; to some in way of especial office , to others in the way of a gracious duty in general . so here , he that gives , let him do it with simplicity , vers. . is the same duty or work for the substance of it , with distributing unto the necessity of the saints , vers. . and the apostle doth not repeat his charge of the same duty in so few words , as required in the same manner , and of the same persons . but in the first place , he speaks of the manner of its performance , by virtue of office ; and in the latter of its discharge as to the substance of it , as a grace in all believers . the design of the apostle lies plain in the analysis of this discourse . . the context makes the same truth evident . for , . the whole ordinary publick work of the church , is distributed into 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; prophecy and ministry . for the extraordinary gift of prophecy is not here intended ; but only that of the interpretation of the scripture , whose rule is the analogy of faith ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it is such prophecy as is to be regulated by the scripture it self ; which gives the proportion of faith. and there is not any thing , in any , or both of these , prophecy and ministry , but it belongs unto office in the church . neither is there any thing belonging unto office in the church , but may be reduced unto one of these , as they are all of them here , by the apostle . . the gifts spoken of , are in general , referred unto all them who are intended . now these are either the whole church , and all the members of it , or all the officers of the church only . hence it is expressed in the plural number , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we having ; that is , all we that are concerned herein . this cannot be all of the church ; for all the church have not received the gifts of prophecy and ministry . nor can any distinction be made of who doth receive them , and who doth not , but with respect unto office. and therefore , . in the distribution which ensues of prophecy , into exhorting and teaching ; and of ministry into shewing , mercy , rule , and giving ; having stated these gifts in general , in the officers in general , making distinct application of them unto distinct officers , he speaks in the singular number , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he that teacheth , he that exhorteth , he that ruleth . . it is then evident that offices are intended ; and it is no less evident , that distinct offices are so , which was to be proved in the second place . for , ( . ) the distributive particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and the indicative article 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , prefixed unto each office in particular , do shew them distinct , so far as words can do it . as by the particle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whether , they are distinguished in their nature ; whether they be of this or that kind ; so by the article prefixed to each of them in exercise , they are distinguished in their subjects . ( . ) the operations , work , and effects ascribed unto these gifts , require distinct offices and functions in their exercise . and if the distribution be made unto all promiscuously without respect unto distinct offices , it were the only way to bring confusion into the church , whereas , indeed here is an accurate order in all church administrations represented to us . and it is farther evident that distinct offices are intended . ( . ) from the comparison made unto the members of the body , ver . . all the members have not the same office ; the eye hath one , the ear hath another . ( . ) each of the duties mentioned and given in charge , is sufficient for a distinct officer , as is declared act. . . in particular , he that ruleth , is a distinct officer . an officer , because rule is an act of office , or office-power . and he is expresly distinguished from all others . but , say some , he that ruleth , is he that doth so , be who he will , that is the pastor or teacher , the teaching elder . but the contrary is evident . ( . ) he that says , he that exhorteth , and then adds , he that ruleth , having distinguished before between prophecy , whereunto exhortation doth belong , and ministry whereof rule is a part ; and prefixing the prepositive indicative article to each of them , doth as plainly put a difference between them , as can be done by words . ( . ) rule is the principal work of him that ruleth . for he is to attend unto it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , with diligence , that is such as is peculiar unto rule , in contradistinction unto what is principally required in other administrations . but rule is not the principal work of the pastor , requiring constant and continual attendance . for his labour in the word and doctrine , is ordinarily sufficient for the utmost of his diligence and abilities . . we have therefore in this context the beautiful order of things in and of the church . all the duties of it , with respect unto its edification , derived from distinct differing spiritual gifts , exercised in and by distinct officers , unto their peculiar ends . the distinction that is in the nature of those gifts , their use and end being provided for in distinct subjects . the mind of no one man , at least ordinarily , is meet to be the seat and subject of all those differing gifts in any eminent degree ; the person of no man being sufficient , meet , or able to exercise them in a way of office towards the whole church ; especially those who labour in the word and doctrine , being obliged to give themselves wholly thereunto , and those that rule to attend thereto with diligence ; so many distinct works , duties and operations , with the qualifications required in their discharge , being inconsistent in the same subject ; all things are here distributed into their proper order and tendency , unto the edification of the church . every distinct gift required to be exercised in a peculiar manner , unto the publick edification of the church , is distributed unto peculiar officers , unto whom an especial work is assigned to be discharged by virtue of the gifts received , unto the edification of the whole body . no man alive is able to fix on any thing which is necessary unto the edification of the church , that is not contained in these distributions , under some of the heads of them . nor can any man find out any thing in these assignations of distinct duties unto distinct offices , that is superfluous , redundant , or not directly necessary unto the edification of the whole , with all the parts and members of it ; nor do i know any wise and sober man who knows any thing how the duties enjoined are to be performed , with what care , diligence , circumspection , prayer and wisdom , suited unto the nature , ends and objects of them , can ever imagine that they can all of them belong unto one and the same office , or be discharged by one and the same person . let men advance any other church order in the room of that here declared ; so suited unto the principles of natural light , operations and duties of diverse natures , being distributed and assigned to such distinct gifts ; acted in distinct offices , as renders those unto whom they are prescribed meet and able for them ; so correspondent to all institutions , rules and examples of church-order in other places of scripture ; so suited unto the edification of the church , wherein nothing which is necessary thereunto is omitted , nor any thing added above what is necessary ; and it shall be cheerfully embraced . the truth is , the ground of the different interpretations and applications of this context of the apostle , ariseth meerly from the prejudicate ▪ apprehensions , that men have concerning the state of the church and its rule . for if the state of it be national or diocesan , if the rule of it be by arbitrary rules and canons , from an authority exerting it self in courts ecclesiastical , legal or illegal , the order of things here described by the apostle , doth no way belong , nor can be accommodated thereunto . to suppose that we have a full description and account in these words of all the offices and officers of the church , of their duty and authority , of all they have to do , and the manner how they are to do it , is altogether unreasonable and senceless unto them , who have another idea of church-affairs and rule , conceived in their minds , or received by tradition , and riveted by interest . and on the other hand ; those who know little or nothing of what belongs unto the due edification of the church , beyond preaching the word and reaping the advantage that is obtained thereby , cannot see any necessity of the distribution of these several works and duties unto several officers ; but suppose all may be done well enough by one or two in the same office. wherefore , it will be necessary , that we treat briefly of the nature of the rule of the church in particular , and what is required thereunto , which shall be done in the close of this discourse . . the exceptions which are usually put in unto this testimony , have not the least countenance from the text or context , nor the matter treated of , nor confirmation 〈◊〉 any other divine testimony . it is therefore in vain to contend about them , being such as any man may multiply at his pleasure on the like occasion ; and used by those who on other considerations , are not willing that things should be as they are here declared to be by the apostle . yet we may take a brief specimen of them . some say it is gifts absolutely without respect unto distinct offices , that the apostle treats of ; which hath been disproved from the text and context before . some say that rule is included in the pastoral office , so as that the pastor only is here intended . but , ( . ) rule is not his principal work , which he is to attend unto in a peculiar manner with diligence above other parts of his duty . ( . ) the care of the poor of the flock belongs also to the pastoral office , yet is there another office appointed to attend unto it in a peculiar manner , act. . ( . ) he that ruleth , is in this place expresly distinguished from him that exhorteth , and him that teacheth . some say , that he that ruleth , is he that ruleth his family . but this is disproved by the analysis of the chapter before declared . and this duty , which is common unto all that have families , and confined unto their families , is ill placed among those publick duties , which are designed unto the edification of the whole church . it is objected , that he that ruleth , is here placed after him that giveth , that is the deacon ; i say then it cannot be the pastor that is intended ; if we may prescribe methods of expressing himself unto the apostle . but he useth his liberty , and doth not oblige himself unto any order in the annumeration of the offices of the church ; see cor. . , , , . and some other exceptions are insisted on of the same nature and importance , which indeed deserve not our consideration . . there is the same evidence given unto the truth argued for , in another testimony of the same apostle , cor. . . god hath set some in the church , first apostles , secondarily prophets , thirdly teachers , after that miracles , then gifts of healings , helps , governments , diversities of tongues . i shall not insist on this testimony and its vindication in particular , seeing many things would be required thereunto , which have been treated of already . some things may be briefly observed concerning it . that there is here an annumeration of officers and offices in the church , both extraordinary for that season , and ordinary for continuance , is beyond exception . unto them is added , the present exercise of some extraordinary gifts , as miracles , healing , tongues . that by helps , the deacons of the church are intended , most do agree , because their original institution was as helpers in the affairs of the church . governments , are governours or rulers , the abstract for the concrete ; that is , such as are distinct from teachers ; such hath god placed in the church , and such there ought to be . but it is said that gifts , not offices are intended ; the gift of goverment , or gift for government . if so , then these gifts are either ordinary or extraordinary ; if ordinary , how come they to be reckoned among miracles , healing , and tongues ? if extraordinary , what extraordinary gifts for government were then given distinct from those of the apostles ; and what instance is any where given of them in the scripture ? again , if god hath given gifts for government to abide in the church , distinct from those given unto teachers , and unto other persons than the teachers , then is there a distinct office of rule or government in the church , which is all we plead for . . the original order in these things is plain in the scripture . the apostles had all church-power and church-office in themselves , with authority to exercise all acts of them everywhere on all occasions . but considering the nature of the church , with that of the rule appointed by the lord christ in it or over it ; they did not , they would not ordinarily exercise their power by themselves or in their own persons alone . and therefore , when the first church consisted of a small number , the apostles acted all things in it , by the consent of the whole multitude or the fraternity , as we have proved from acts the first . and when the number of believers encreased , so as that the apostles themselves could not in their own persons attend unto all the duties that were to be performed towards the church by virtue of office , they added by the direction of the holy ghost , the office of the deacons , for the especial discharge of the duty which the church oweth unto its poor members . whereas therefore it is evident , that the apostles could no more personally attend unto the rule of the church , with all that belongs thereunto , without an entrenchment on that labour in the word and prayer , which was incumbent on them , than they could attend unto the relief of the poor , they appointed elders , to help and assist in that part of office-work , as the deacons did in the other . these elders are first mentioned , act. . . where they are spoken of as those which were well known , and had now been of some time in the church . afterwards they are still mentioned in conjunction with the apostles , and distinction from the church it self , acts . , , , . chap. . . chap. . . now the apostles themselves were teaching elders , that is such as had the work of teaching and rule committed to them , pet. . . joh. . and these elders are constantly distinguished from them ; which makes it evident , that they were not teaching elders . and therefore in all the mention that is made of them , the work of teaching or preaching is no where ascribed unto them ; which at jerusalem the apostles reserved to themselves , act. . , . but they are every where introduced as joining with the apostles in the rule of the church , and that in distinction from the church it self or the brethren of it . yea , it is altogether improbable , that whilst the apostles were at jerusalem , giving themselves wholly unto the word and prayer , that they should appoint in the same church many more teaching elders ; though it is plain that the elders intended were many . i shall add for a close of all , that there is no sort of churches in being but are of this perswasion , that there ought to be rulers in the church , that are not in sacred orders , as some call them ; or have no interest in the pastoral or ministerial office , as unto the dispensation of the word , and administration of the sacraments . for as the government of the roman church is in the hands of such persons in a great measure so in the church of england , much of the rule of it is managed by chancellors , officials , commissaries , and the like officers , who are absolutely lay-men , and not at all in their holy orders . some would place the rule of the church in the civil magistrate , who is the only ruling elder , as they suppose . but the generality of all protestant churches throughout the world , both lutherans and reformed , do both in their judgment and practice assert the necessity of the ruling elders which we plead for ; and their office lies at the foundation of all their order and discipline , which they cannot forgo without extream confusion , yea , without the ruine of their churches . and although some among us , considering particular churches only as small societies , may think there is no need of any such office or officers for rule in them ; yet when such churches consist of some thousands , without any opportunity of distributing themselves into several congregations , as at charenton in france , it is a weak imagination , that the rule of christ can be observed in them by two or three ministers alone . hence , in the primitive times we have instances of ten , twenty , yea , forty elders in a particular church , wherein they had respect unto the institution under the old testament , whereby each ten families were to have a peculiar ruler . however , it is certain that there is such a reformation in all sorts of churches , that there ought to be some attending unto rule , that are not called to labour in the word and doctrine . chap. viii . the nature of church-polity or rule ; with the duty of elders . having declared who are the rulers of the church , something must be added concerning the rule it self , which is to be exercised therein . hereof i have treated before in general : that which i now design , is , what in particular respects them who are called unto rule only ; whereunto some considerations must be premised . . there is power , authority , and rule granted unto and residing in some persons of the church , and not in the body of the fraternity or community of the people . how far the government of the church may be denominated democratical from the necessary consent of the people unto the principal acts of it in its exercise , i shall not determine . but whereas this consent , and the liberty of it is absolutely necessary according to the law of obedience unto christ , which is prescribed unto the church , requiring that all they do in compliance therewith be voluntary ; as unto the manner of its exercise , being in dutiful compliance with the guidance of the rule , it changeth not the state of the government . and therefore , where any thing is acted and disposed in the church , by suffrage , or the plurality of voices , the vote of the fraternity is not determining and authoritative , but only declarative of consent and obedience . it is so , in all acts of rule where the church is organical , or in compleat order . . that there is such an authority and rule instituted by christ in his church , is not liable unto dispute . where there are bishops , pastors , elders , guides , rulers , stewards , instituted , given , granted , called , ordained ; and some to be ruled , sheep , lambs , brethren , obliged by command to obey them , follow them , submit unto them in the lord , regard them as over them : there is rule and authority in some persons , and that committed unto them by jesus christ. but all these things are frequently repeated in the scripture . and when in the practical part or exercise of rule , due respect is not had unto their authority , there is nothing but confusion and disorder . when the people judge that the power of the keys is committed unto them as such only , and in them doth the right of their use and exercise reside ; that their elders have no interest in the disposing of church affairs , or in acts of church power , but only their own suffrages , or what they can obtain by reasoning , and think there is no duty incumbent on them to acquiesce in their authority in any thing ( an evil apt to grow in churches ) it overthrows all that beautiful order , which jesus christ hath ordained . and if any shall make advantage of this complaint , that where the people have their due liberty granted unto them , they are apt to assume that power unto themselves which belongs not unto them ; an evil attended with troublesome impertinencies and disorder , tending unto anarchy ; let them remember , on the other hand , how upon the confinement of power and authority unto the guides , bishops or rulers of the church , they have changed the nature of church-power , and enlarged their usurpation , until the whole rule of the church issued in absolute tyranny . wherefore , no fear of consequents that may ensue and arise from the darkness , ignorance , weakness , lusts , corruptions or secular interests of men ought to entice us unto the least alteration of the rule by any prudential provisions of our own . . this authority in the rulers of the church , is neither autocratical or sovereign , nor nomothetical or legislative , nor despotical or absolute ; but organical and ministerial only . the endless controversies which have sprung out of the mystery of iniquity , about an autocratical and monarchical government in the church , about power to make laws to bind the consciences of men , yea , to kill and destroy them , with the whole manner of the execution of this power , we are not concerned in . a pretence of any such power in the church , is destructive of the kingly office of christ , contrary to express commands of scripture , and condemned by the apostles , isa. . . jam. . . mat. . . chap. . , , , . luke . , . cor. . . cor. . , , . cor. . . pet. . , . . as the rule of the church , in those by whom it is exercised , is meerly ministerial , with respect unto the authority of christ , his law , and the liberty of the church , wherewith he hath made it free ; so in its nature it is spiritual , purely and only . so the apostle affirms expresly , cor. . , , . for its object is spiritual ; namely , the souls and consciences of men whereunto it extends , which no other humane power doth ; nor doth it reach those other concerns of men that are subject unto any political power : its end is spiritual , namely , the glory of god , in the guidance and direction of the minds and souls of men , to live unto him , and come to the enjoyment of him ; the law of it is spiritual , even the word , command and direction of christ himself alone ; the acts and exercise of it in binding and loosing , in remitting and retaining sin , in opening and shutting the kingdom of heaven , are all spiritual meerly and only . neither can there be an instance given of any thing belonging unto the rule of the church , that is of another nature , yea , it is sufficient eternally to exclude any power or exercise of it , any act of rule or government from any interest in church-affairs , that it can be proved to be carnal , political , despotical , of external operaration , or not entirely spiritual . . the change of this government of the church , fell out and was introduced gradually , upon an advantage taken from the unmeetness of the people to be lead under this spiritual rule . for the greatest part of them that made up christian churches , being become ignorant and carnal , that rule which consists in a spiritual influence on the consciences of men , was no way able to retain them within the bounds of outward obedience , which was at last only aimed at . there was therefore another kind of rule and government judged necessary to retain them in any order or decorum . and it must be acknowledged , that where the members of the church are not in some degree spiritual , a rule that is meerly spiritual will be of no great use unto them . but principally , this change was introduced by those that were in possession of the rule it self ; and that on two grounds . ( . ) their unskilfulness in the management of this spiritual rule , or weariness of the duties which are required thereunto : this made them willing to desert it ; with that perpetual labour and exercise of all sorts of graces which are required in it , and to embrace another more easie , and more suited unto their inclinations . ( . ) a desire of the secular advantages of profit , honour and veneration , which tendered themselves unto them in another kind of rule : by these means was the original government of the church , which was of divine institution , utterly lost ; and a worldly domination introduced in the room thereof . but the brief delineation given of it before , with what shall now be added , will demonstrate sufficiently , that all these disputes and contests which are in the world , between the church of rome and others about church-power and rule , are utterly foreign unto christian religion . . i shall therefore briefly enquire into these three things , ( . ) what is the skill and polity that is required unto the exercise , or administration of the government of the church ? ( . ) what is the sole law and rule of it ? ( . ) what are the acts and duties of it ? what it is conversant about ; especially those wherein the office of ruling elders doth take place . . the polity of church-government subjectively considered , is generally supported to consist , ( . ) in a skill , learning or understanding in the civil , and especially the canon law , with the additional canons , accomodating that law unto the present state of things of the nation , to be interpreted according unto the general rules of it . ( . ) knowledge of and acquaintance with the constitution , power , jurisdiction and practice of some law courts ; which being in their original , grant of power , manner of proceeding , pleas and censures meerly secular , are yet called ecclesiastical or spiritual . ( . ) a good discretion to understand a-right the extent of their power , with the bounds and limits of it ; that on the one hand they let none escape whom they can reach by the discipline of their courts , and on the other not entrench so far on the civil-power and the jurisdiction of other courts according to the law of the land , as to bring themselves into charge or trouble . ( . ) an acquaintance with the table of fees , that they may neither lose their own profit , nor give advantage unto others to question them for taking more than their due . but in these things we are not at present concerned . . the skill then of the officers of the church for the government of it , is a spiritual wisdom and vnderstanding in the law of christ , for that end , with an ability to make application of it in all requisite instances , unto the edification of the whole church , and all its members , through a ministerial exercise of the authority of christ himself , and a due representation of his holiness , love , care , compassion and tenderness toward his church . . the sole rule and measure of the government of the church being the law of christ ; that is , the intimation and declaration of his mind and will , in his institutions , commands , prohibitions and promises ; an vnderstanding herein , with wisdom , from that understanding , is and must be the whole of the skill enquired after . how this wisdom is bestowed as a spiritual gift , how it is to be acquired in a way of duty , by prayer , meditation and study of the word , hath been intimated before , and shall fully be declared , in our discourse of spiritual gifts . all decrees and decretals , canons and glosses come properly in this matter under one title of them , namely extravagant . the utmost knowledge of them , and skill in them will contribute nothing unto this wisdom . neither are any sort of men more strangers unto it , or unacquainted with it , than they are , for the most part , who are eminently cunning in such laws , and the jurisdiction of ecclesiastical courts . but wisdom in the knowledge of the will of christ as revealed in the scripture , is that alone which is of use in the government of the church . . a part of this wisdom consisteth in an ability of mind to make application of the law of christ in all requisite instances , unto the edification of the church in general , and all the members of it respectively . this wisdom is not notional only , but practical . it consists not in a speculative comprehension of the sence of the rule , or of the mind of christ therein only , though that be required in the first place ; but in an ability of mind to make application of it , whereunto diligence , care , watchfulness and spiritual courage are required . some are to be admonished ; some to be rebuked sharply ; some to be cut off ; in which and the like cases , a spirit of government acting it self in diligence , boldness and courage is necessary . and this is one reason why the lord christ hath appointed many elders in each church , and those of several sorts . for it is seldom that any one man is qualified for the whole work of rule . some may have a good understanding in the law of the churches government ; yet through a natural tenderness , and an insuperable kind of modesty , not be so ready and prompt for that part of this discipline which consists in reproofs and severity of censures . some may not have so great an ability for the indagation of the sence of the law as others have ; who yet upon the knowledge of it being discovered unto them , have readiness and boldness in christ to apply it as occasion doth require . all elders therefore in their variety of gifts are to be helpful to each other in the common work , which they are called unto . but such as are utterly destitute of these gifts , are not called unto this work ; nor any part of it . . the power that is exercised herein , is the power and authority of christ committed unto the elders . our authority , which the lord christ hath given us for edification , and not for destruction , cor. . . it is granted unto the rulers of the church , not formally to reside in them , as the power of a king is in his own person ; but ministerially and instrumentally only . for it must be the authority of christ himself , whereby the consciences of men are spiritually affected , with reference unto spiritual ends ; whereby they are bound or losed in heaven and earth , have their sins remitted or retained . and the consideration hereof is that alone which gives a due regard unto the ministry of the church , in the discharge of their office among them that desire to commend their consciences unto the lord christ in what they do . . the especial design of the rule of the church in its government is to represent the holiness , love , compassion , care and authority of christ towards his church . this is the great end of rule in the church , and of all the discipline which is to be exercised by virtue thereof . whilst this is not attended unto , when the officers and rulers of the church do not endeavour in all the actings of their power and office , to set forth these vertues of christ ; to exemplifie that impression of them which he hath left in his laws and rule , with the divine testimonies which he gives of them in his own person , they utterly deviate from the principal end of all rule in the church . for men to act herein in a way of domination , with a visible elation of mind and spirit above their brethren , with anger , wrath and passion , by rules , order and laws of their own devising ; without the least consideration of what the lord christ requires , and what is the frame of his heart towards all his disciples , is to reflect the highest dishonour imaginable upon christ himself . he who comes into the courts of the king in westminster - hall , when filled with judges , grave , learned and righteous , most ordinarily be allowed to judge of the king himself , his wisdom , justice , moderation and clemency , by the law which they proceed upon , and their manner of the administration of it . but god forbid that christians should make a judgment concerning the holiness , wisdom , love and compassion of christ , by the representation which ( as is pretended ) is made of him and them in some courts , wherein church-rule and discipline is admistred . when any had offended of old , their censure by the church was called the bewailing of them , cor. . . and that because of the sorrow , pity and compassion whereby in that censure they evidenced the compassion of the lord christ towards the souls of sinners . this is scarce answered by those pecuniary mulcts and other penalties , which , with indignation and contempt , are inflicted on such as are made offenders , whether they will or no. certainly , those who love the lord jesus christ in sincerity , and have a due honour for the gospel , will at one time or another begin to think meet , that this stain of our religion should be washed away . dly . the rule and law of the exercise of power in the elders of the church , is the holy scripture only . the lord christ is the only law-giver of the church ; all his laws unto this end are recorded in the scripture ; no other law is effectual , can oblige or operate upon the object or unto the ends of church-rule . if the church make a thousand rules or canons , or laws for government , neither any of them , nor all of them in general , have any the least power to oblige men unto obedience or compliance with them , but only so far , as virtually and materially they contain what is of the law of christ , and derives force from thence . as the judges in our courts of justice , are bound to judge and determine in all cases , out of and according to the law of the land ; and when they do not , their sentence is of no validity , but may and ought to be reversed . but if wilfully or of choice , they should introduce laws or rules not legally established in this nation , judging according unto them , it would render them highly criminal and punishable . it is no otherwise in the kingdom of christ , and the rule thereof . it is by his law alone that rule is to be exercised in it . there is nothing left unto the elders of the church , but the application of his laws , and the general rules of them unto particular cases and occasions . to make , to bring , to execute any other rules , laws or canons in the government of his church , is to usurp on his kingly dominion , whereunto all legislative power in the church is appropriate . nor is it possible that any thing can fall out in the church , that any thing can be required in the rule of it , nor can any instance be given of any such thing , wherein , for the ends of church-rule , there is or can be any more left unto the rulers of it , but only the application and execution of the laws of christ. unto this application to be made in a due manner , the wisdom and skill before described is requisite , and that alone . where there are other laws , rules or canons of the government of the church ; and where the administration of them is directed by laws civil or political , there is a skill in them required unto that administration , as all will confess . so is the wisdom we before described , and that alone , necessary unto that rule of the church which the lord christ hath ordained ; the instrument and means whereof , is his word and law alone . dly . the matter of this rule about which it is conversant , and so the acts and duties of it may be reduced unto three heads . . the admission and exclusion of members . both these are acts of church-power and authority , which are to be exercised by the elders only in a church that is organical and compleat in its officers . there is that in them both , which is founded in and warranted from the light and law of nature and rules of equity . every righteous voluntary society coalescing therein rightfully , upon known laws , and rules for the regulation of it unto certain ends , hath naturally a power inherent in it and inseparable from it , to receive into its incorporation , such as being meet for it , do voluntarily offer themselves thereunto ; as also to reject , or withhold the privileges of the society , from such as refuse to be regulated by the laws of the society . this power is inherent in the church essentially considered antecedently unto the enstating of officers in it : by virtue of their mutual confederation they may receive into the privileges of the society those that are meet , and withdraw the same privileges from those that are unworthy . but in these actings of the church , essentially considered , there is no exercise of the power of the keys , as unto authoritative rule , but what is meerly doctrinal . there is in what it doth a declaration of the mind of christ , as unto the state of the persons whom they do receive or reject . but unto the church as organical , as there are elders or rulers instated in it according unto the mind of christ , there is a peculiar authority committed for those acts of the admission and exclusion of members . unto this end is the key of rule committed unto the elders of the church , to be applied with the consent of the whole society , as we shall see afterwards . dly . the direction of the church in all the members of it , unto the observance of the rule and law of christ in all things , unto his glory and their own edification . and all these things may be reduced unto these four heads . ( . ) mutual , intense , peculiar love among themselves , to be exercised continually in all the duties of it . ( . ) personal holiness in gracious moral obedience . ( . ) vsefulness towards the members of the same church , towards other churches , and all men absolutely , as occasion and opportunity do require . ( . ) the due performance of all those duties , which all the members of the church owe mutually unto each other , by virtue of that place and order which they hold and possess in the body . about these things is church-rule to be exercised ; for they all belong unto the preservation of its being , and the attainment of its ends. dly . hereunto also belongs the disposal of the outward concernments of the church in its assemblies , and in the management of all that is performed in them , that all things may be done decently and in order . the disposal of times , seasons , places , the way and manner of managing all things in church-assemblies , the regulation of speeches and actions , the appointment of seasons for extraordinary duties , according unto the general rules of the word , and the reason of things from present circumstances , are acts of rule , whose right resides in the elders of the church . these things being premised , we may consider what is the work and duty of that sort of elders , which we have proved to be placed by christ for rule in the church . for , considering that which hath been spoken before concerning the pastoral office , or the duty of teaching-elders of the church , and what hath now been added concerning its rule in general ; i cannot but admire that any one man should have such a confidence in his own abilities , as to suppose himself meet and able for the discharge of the duties of both sorts in the least church of christ that can well be supposed . yea , supposing more teaching-elders in every church than one , yet if they are all and every one of them equally bound to give themselves unto the word and prayer , so as not to be diverted from that work by any inferior duties , if they are obliged to labour in the word and doctrine to the utmost of their strength continually , it will appear at length to be necessary , that there should be some whose peculiar office and duty is to attend unto rule with diligence . and the work of these elders consists in the things ensuing . . they are joined unto the teaching elders in all acts and duties of church-power , for the rule and government of the church . such are those before declared . this is plain in the text , tim. . . both sorts of elders are joined and do concurr in the same rule and all the acts of it ; one sort of them labouring also in the word and doctrine . of both sorts is the presbytery or eldership composed , wherein resides all church-authority . and in this conjunction , those of both sorts are every way equal , determining all acts of rule by their common suffrage . this gives order , with a necessary representation of authority , unto the church in its government . . they are in particular to attend unto all things wherein the rule or discipline of the church is concerned , with a due care that the commands of christ be duly observed by and among all the members of the church . this is the substance of the rule which christ hath appointed , whatever be pretended unto the contrary . whatever is set up in the world , in opposition unto it or inconsistent with it , under the name of the government of the church , is foreign unto the gospel . church-rule is a due care and provision , that the institutions , laws , commands and appointments of jesus christ be duly observed , and nothing else . and hereof , as unto the duty of the elders , we may give some instances : as , . to watch diligently over the ways , walking and conversation of all the members of the church , to see that it be blameless , without offence , useful , exemplary and in all things answering the holiness of the commands of christ , the honour of the gospel , and profession which in the world they make thereof . and upon the observation which they so make , in the watch wherein they are placed , to instruct , admonish , charge , exhort , encourage , comfort , as they see cause . and this are they to attend unto , with courage and diligence . . to watch against all risings or appearances of such differences and divisions on the account of things ecclesiastical or civil , as unto their names , rights and proprieties in the world , that are contrary unto that love which the lord christ requireth in a peculiar and eminent manner to be found amongst his disciples . this he calls his own new command , with respect unto his authority requiring it , his example first illustrating it in the world , and the peculiar fruits and effects of it which he revealed and taught . wherefore , the due observance of this law of love in it self and all its fruits , with the prevention , removal or condemnation of all that is contrary unto it , is that in which the rule of the church doth principally consist . and considering the weakness , the passions , the temptations of men , the mutual provocations and exasperations that are apt to fall out even among the best , the influence that earthly occasions are apt to have upon their minds , the frowardness sometimes of mens natural tempers ; the attendance unto this one duty or part of rule , requires the utmost diligence of them that are called unto it . and it is meerly either the want of acquaintance with the nature of that law and its fruits , which the lord christ requires among his disciples , or an undervaluation of the worth and glory of it in the church , or inadvertency unto the causes of its decays , and of breeches made in it ; or ignorance of the care and duties that are necessary unto its preservation , that induce men to judge that the work of an especial office is not required hereunto . . their duty is to warn all the members of the church of their especial church-duties , that they be not found negligent or wanting in them . there are especial duties required respectively of all church-members , according unto the distinct talents , whether in things spiritual or temporal , which they have received . some are rich , and some are poor ; some are old , and some are young ; some in peace , some in trouble ; some have received more spiritual gifts than others , and have more opportunities for their exercise . it belongs unto the rule of the church , that all be admonished , instructed , and exhorted to attend unto their respective duties ; not only publickly in the preaching of the word , but personally as occasion doth require , according to the observation which those in rule do make of their forwardness or remissness in them . in particular , and in the way of instance , men are to be warned that they contribute unto the necessities of the poor , and other occasions of the church according unto the ability that god in his providence hath intrusted them withal ; and to admonish them that are defective herein , in order to their recovery unto the discharge of this duty , in such a measure as there may be an equality in the church , cor. . . and all other duties of an a-like nature are they to attend unto . . they are to watch against the beginnings of any church-disorders , such as those that infested the church of corinth , or any of the like sort ; with remissness as unto the assemblies of the church and the duties of them , which some are subject unto , as the apostle intimates , heb. . . on the constancy and diligence of the elders in this part of their work and duty , the very being and order of the church do greatly depend . the want hereof hath opened a door unto all the troubles , divisions and schisms , that in all ages have invaded and perplexed the churches of christ from within themselves . and from thence also have decays in faith , love and order insensibly prevailed in many , to the dishonour of christ , and the danger of their own souls . first one grows remiss in attending unto the assemblies of the church , and then another ; first to one degree , then to another , until the whole lump be infected . a diligent watch over these things as to the beginnings of them in all the members of the church will either heal and recover them that offend , or it will warn others , and keep the church from being either corrupted or defiled , heb. . chap. . . it belongs unto them also to visit the sick , especially such as whose inward or outward conditions do expose them unto more than ordinary trials in their sickness ; that is the poor , the afflicted , the tempted in any kind . this in general is a moral duty , a work of mercy ; but it is moreover a peculiar church-duty by virtue of institution . and one end of the institution of churches , is , that the disciples of christ may have all that spiritual and temporal relief which is needful for them , and useful to them in their troubles and distresses . and if this duty were diligently attended unto by the officers of the church , it would add much unto the glory and beauty of our order , and be an abiding reserve with relief in the minds of them whose outward condition exposeth them to straits and sorrows in such a season . i add hereunto as a duty of the same nature , the visitation of those who suffer unto restraint and imprisonment upon the account of their profession , adherence unto church-assemblies , or the discharge of any pastoral or office-duties in them . this is a case wherewith we are not unacquainted , nor are like so to be . some look on this as the duty of all the members of the church , who yet enjoy their liberty ; and so it is , as their opportunities and abilities will allow them , provided their discharge of it be useful unto those whom they visit , and inoffensive unto others . but this duty diligently attended unto by the elders , representing therein the care and love of the whole church , yea , of christ himself unto his prisoners , is a great spring of relief and comfort unto them . and by the elders may the church be acquainted what yet is required of them in a way of duty on their account . the care of the primitive churches herein was most eminent . . it belongs unto them and their office , to advise with and give direction unto the deacons of the church , as unto the making provision and distribution of the charity of the church for the relief of the poor . the office of the deacons is principally executive , as we shall see afterwards . inquisition into the state of the poor , with all their circumstances , with the warning of all the members of the church unto liberality for their supply , belongs unto the elders . . when the state of the church is such , through suffering , persecution and affliction , that the poor be multiplied among them , so as that the church it self is not able to provide for their relief in a due manner , if any supply be sent unto them from the love and bounty of other churches , it is to be deposited with these elders , and disposed according to their advice , with that of the teachers of the church , act. . . . it is also their duty , according to the advantage which they have by their peculiar inspection of all the members of the church , their ways and their walking , to acquaint the pastors or teaching-elders of the church , with the state of the flock , which may be of singular use unto them for their direction in the present work of the ministry . he who makes it not his business to know the state of the church which he ministers unto in the word and doctrine , as to their knowledge , their judgment and understanding , their temptations and occasions , and applies not himself in his ministry to search out what is necessary and useful unto their edification ; he fights uncertainly in his whole work , as a man beating the air. but , whereas their obligation to attend unto the word and prayer , confines them much unto a retirement for the greatest part of their time , they cannot by themselves obtain that acquaintance with the whole flock , but that others may greatly assist therein from their daily inspection , converse and observation . . and it is their duty to meet and consult with the teaching-elders , about such things of importance , as are to be proposed in and unto the church , for its consent and compliance . hence , nothing crude or indigested , nothing unsuited to the sence and duty of the church , will at any time be proposed therein , so to give occasion unto contests or janglings , disputes contrary unto order or decency ; but all things may be preserved in a due regard unto the gravity and authority of the rulers . . to take care of the due liberties of the church , that they be not imposed on by any diotrephes in office , or without it . . it is incumbent on them in times of difficulties and persecution , to consult together with the other elders concerning all those things which concern the present duty of the church , from time to time , and their preservation from violence , according unto the will of christ. . whereas , there may be , and oft-times is but one teaching-elder , pastor or teacher in a church , upon his death or removal , it is the work and duty of these elders , to preserve the church in peace and unity ; to take care of the continuation of its assemblies ; to prevent irregularities in any persons or parties among them ; to go before , to direct and guide the church in the call and choice of some other meet person or persons in the room of the deceased or removed . these few instances have i given of the work and duty of ruling elders . they are all of them such as deserve a greater enlargement in their declaration and confirmation , than i can here afford unto them . and sundry things of the like nature , especially with respect unto communion with other churches and synods : but what hath been spoken is sufficient unto my present purpose . and to manifest that it is so , i shall add the ensuing observations . . all the things insisted on , do undoubtedly and unquestionably belong unto the rule and order appointed by christ in his church . there is no one of them , that is liable unto any just exception from them by whom all church order is not dispised . wherefore where there is a defect in them or any of them , the church it self is defective as unto its own edification . and where this defect is great , in many of them , there can be no beauty , no glory , no order in any church , but only an outward shew and appearance of them . and that all these things do belong unto the duty of these elders , there needs no other proof nor confirmation , but that they all undoubtedly and unquestionably belong unto that rule and order , which the lord christ hath appointed in his church , and which the scripture testifieth unto , both in general and particular . for all the things which belong unto the rule of the church , are committed to the care of the rulers of the church . . it is a vain apprehension to suppose that one or two teaching officers in a church , who are obliged to give themselves unto the word and prayer , to labour with all their might in the word and doctrine , to preach in and out of season ; that is , at all times , on all opportunities as they are able , to convince gain-sayers by word and writing , pleading for the truth ; to assist and guide the consciences of all , under their temptations and desertions , with sundry other duties , in part spoken to before , should be able to take care of , and attend with diligence unto all these things , that do evidently belong unto the rule of the church . and hence it is , that churches at this day do live on the preaching of the word , the proper work of their pastor , which they greatly value , and are very little sensible of the wisdom , goodness , love and care of christ in the institution of this rule in the church , nor are partakers of the benefits of it unto their edification . and the supply which many have made hitherto herein , by persons either unacquainted with their duty , or insensible of their own authority , or cold if not negligent in their work , doth not answer the end of their institution . and hence it is that the authority of government and the benefit of it , are ready to be lost in most churches . and it is both vainly and presumptuously pleaded , to give countenance unto a neglect of their order , that some churches do walk in love and peace , and are edified without it ; supplying some defects by the prudent aid of some members of them . for it is nothing but a preference of our own wisdom unto the wisdom and authority of christ ; or at best an unwillingness to make a venture on the warranty of his rule , for fear of some disadvantages that may ensue thereon . . whereas sundry of the duties before-mentioned , are , as unto the substance of them , required of the members of the church , in their several stations , without any especial obligation to attend unto them with diligence , to look after them , or power to exercise any authority in the discharge of them , to leave them from under the office-care of the elders , is to let in confusson and disorder into the church , and gradually to remove the whole advantage of the discipline of christ , as it is come to pass in many churches already . it is therefore evident , that neither the purity , nor the order , nor the beauty or glory of the churches of christ , nor the representation of his own majesty and authority in the government of them , can be long preserved without a multiplication of elders in them , according to the proportion of their respective members , for their rule and guidance . and for want hereof have churches of old and of late , either degenerated into anarchy and confusion , their self rule being managed with vain disputes and janglings , unto their division and ruine ; or else given up themselves unto the domination of some prelatical teachers , to rule them at their pleasure , which proved the bane and poison of all the primitive churches ; and they will and must do so in the neglect of this order for the future . chap. ix . of deacons . the original institution , nature and vse of the office of deacons in the church , are so well known , as that we need not much insist upon them . nor shall i treat of the name which is common unto any kind of ministry civil or sacred ; but speak of it as it is appropriated unto that especial work for which this office was ordained . the remote foundation of it lieth in that of our saviour , the poor you have always with you , joh. . . he doth not only foretel , that such there should be in the church , but recommends the care of them who should be so , unto the church . for he maketh use of the words of the law , deut. . . for the poor shall never cease out of the land ; therefore i command thee , saying , thou shalt open thy hand wide unto thy brother , to thy poor , and to thy needy . this legal institution , founded in the law of nature , doth the lord christ by his authority transferr and translate unto the use of gospel churches among his disciples . and it may be observed , that at the same instant hypocrisie and avarice began to attempt their advantage on the consideration of this provision for the poor , which they afterwards effected unto their safety . for on the pretence hereof , judas immediately condemned an eminent duty towards the person of christ , as containing a cost in it , which might have been better laid out in provision for the poor : the ointment poured on our saviour he thought might have been sold for three hundred pence ( it may be about forty or fifty pound ) and given to the poor , but this he said , not that he cared for the poor but because he was a thief , and had the bag ; out of which he could have made a good prey unto himself , joh. . . and it may be observed , that although judas malitiously began this murmuring ; yet at last some of the other disciples were too credulous of his insinuation , seeing the other evangelists , ascribe it to them also . but the same pretence , on the same grounds , in following ages was turned unto the greatest advantage of hypocrisy and covetousness that ever was in the world. for under this pretence of providing for the poor , the thieves who had got the bag , that is the ruling part of the clergy , with the priests , friars and monks who served them , allowed men in the neglect of the greatest and most important duties of religion towards christ himself , so as that they would give all that they had to the poor ; not that they cared for the poor , but because they were thieves , and had the bag ; by which means they possessed themselves of the greatest part of the wealth of the nations professing christian religion . this was their compliance with the command of christ ; which they equally made use of in other things . this foundation of their office was farther raised by the preaching of the gospel among the poor . many of them who first received it , were of that state and condition as the scripture every where testifieth . the poor are evangelized , matth. . . god hath chosen the poor , jam. . . and so it was in the first ages of the church ; where the provision for them was one of the most eminent graces and duties of the church in those days . and this way became the original propagation of the gospel . for it was made manifest thereby , that the doctrine and profession of it was not a matter of worldly design or advantage ; god also declared therein of how little esteem with him the riches of this world are ; and also provision was made for the exercise of the grace of the rich in their supply , the only way whereby they may glorify god with their substance . and it were well if all churches , and all the members of them would wisely consider how eminent is this grace , how excellent is this duty , of making provision for the poor , how much the glory of christ and honour of the gospel are concerned herein . for , whereas for the most part it is looked on as an ordinary work to be performed transiently and curiously , scarce deserving any of the time which is allotted unto the churches publick service and duties , it is indeed one of the most eminent duties of christian societies , wherein the principal exercise of the second evangelical grace , namely love , doth consist . the care of making provision for the poor being made in the church an institution of christ , was naturally incumbent on them who were the first only officers of the church , that is , the apostles . this is plain from the occasion of the institution of the office of the deacons , act. . the whole work and care of the church being in their hands , it was impossible that they should attend unto the whole and all the parts of it in any manner . whereas therefore they gave themselves , according to their duty , mostly unto those parts of their work , which were incomparably more excellent and necessary than the other , namely preaching of the word and prayer ; there was such a defect in this other part of ministration unto the poor , as must unavoidably accompany the actings of humane nature , not able to apply it self constantly unto things of diverse natures at the same time . and hereon those who were concerned quickly , as the manner of all is , expressed their resentment of a neglect in somewhat an undue order ; there was a murmuring about it , ver. . the apostles hereon declared that the principal part of the work of the ministry in the church , namely the word and prayer , was sufficient for them constantly to attend unto . afterwards indeed men began to think that they could do all in the church themselves , but it was when they began to do nothing in a due manner . and whereas the apostles chose , as their duty , the work of prayer and preaching , as that which they would and ought entirely give up themselves unto , and for the sake of that work would deposite the care of other things on other hands ; they are a strange kind of successors unto them , who lay aside that work which they determined to belong unto them principally and in the first place , to apply themselves unto any thing else whatever . yet did not the apostles hereon utterly forgo the care of providing for the poor which being originally committed unto them by jesus christ , they would not divest themselves wholly of it . but by the direction of the holy ghost they provided such assistance in the work , as that for the future it might require no more of their time or pains but what they should spare from their principal employment . and the same care is still incumbent on the ordinary pastors and elders of the churches , so far as the execution of it doth not interfere with their principal work and duty , from which those who understand it aright , can spare but little of their time and strength . hereon the apostles , by the authority of christ and direction of the holy spirit , under whose infallible guidance they were in all the general concernments of the church , instituted the office of deacons , for the discharge of this necessary and important duty in the church , which they could not attend unto themselves . and whereas the lord christ had in an especial manner committed the care of the poor unto the disciples , there was now a declaration of his mind and will , in what way and by what means he would have them provided for . and it was the institution of a new office , and not a present supply in a work of business which they designed . for the limitation of an especial ecclesiastical work , with the designation of persons unto that work , with authority for the discharge of it , ( set over this business ) with a separation unto it , do compleatly constitute an office , nor is there any thing more required thereunto . but whereas there are three things that concurr and are required unto the ministration unto the poor of the church . ( . ) the love , charity , bounty and benevolence of the members of the church , in contribution unto that ministration . ( . ) the care and oversight of the discharge of it . and , ( . ) the actual exercise and application of it ; the last only belongs unto the office of the deacons , and neither of the first are discharged by the institution of it . for the first is both a duty of the light and law of nature , and in its moral part enforced by many especial commands of christ ; so as that nothing can absolve men from their obligation thereunto . the office and work of the deacons is to excite , direct and help them in the exercise of that grace , and discharge of the duty therein incumbent on them . nor is any man , by the entrusting a due proportion of his good things in the hands of the deacons for its distribution , absolved thereby from his own personal discharge of it also . for it being a moral duty required in the law of nature , it receiveth peculiar obligations unto a present exercise by such circumstances as nature and providence do suggest : the care also of the whole work is as was said , still incumbent on the pastors and elders of the church ; only the ordinary execution is committed unto the deacons . nor was this a temporary institution for that season , and so the officers appointed extraordinary ; but was to abide in the church throughout all generations . for , ( . ) the work it self , as a distinct work of ministry in the church , was never to cease , it was to abide for ever ; the poor you shall have always with you . ( . ) the reason of its institution is perpetual ; namely , that the pastors of the churches are not sufficient in themselves to attend unto the whole work of praying , preaching , and this ministration . ( . ) they are afterwards not only in this church at jerusalem , but in all the churches of the gentiles reckoned among the fixed officers of the church , phil. . . and , ( . ) direction is given for their continuation in all churches , with a prescription of the qualifications of the person to be chosen and called into this office , tim. . , , . ( . ) the way of their call is directed , and an office committed unto them , let them be first proved , then let them use the office of a deacon . ( . ) a promise of acceptance is annexed unto the diligent discharge of this office , vers. . hence those who afterward utterly perverted all church order , taking out of the hands and care of the deacons , that work which was committed to them by the holy ghost in the apostles , and for which end alone , their office was instituted in the church , assigning other work unto them , whereunto they are not called nor appointed ; yet thought meet to continue the name and the pretence of such an office , because of the evident institution of it , unto a continuation . and whereas when all things were swelling with pride and ambition in the church , no sort of its officers contenting themselves with their primitive institution ; but striving by various degrees to some-what in name and thing , that was high and a-loft , there arose from the name of this office the meteor of an archdeacon , with strange power and authority , never heard of in the church for many ages : but this belongs unto the mystery of iniquity ; whereunto neither the scripture nor the practice of the primitive churches do give the least countenance . but some think it not inconvenient even to sport themselves in matter of church order and constitutions . this office of deacons , is an office of service , which gives not any authority or power in the rule of the church . but being an office , it gives authority with respect unto the special work of it under a general notion of authority ; that is , a right to attend unto it in a peculiar manner , and to perform the things that belong thereunto . but this right is confined unto the particular church whereunto they do belong . of the members of that church are they to make their collections , and unto the members of that church are they to administer . extraordinary collections from , or for other churches , are to be made and disposed by the elders , acts . . whereas , the reason of the institution of this office was in general to free the pastors of the churches who labour in the word and doctrine from avocations by outward things , such as wherein the church is concerned ; it belongs unto the deacons not only to take care of and provide for the poor , but to manage all other affairs of the church of the same kind ; such as are providing for the place of the church-assemblies , of the elements for the sacraments , of keeping , collecting and disposing of the stock of the church , for the maintenance of its officers , and incidencies , especially in the time of trouble or persecution . hereon are they obliged to attend the elders on all occasions , to perform the duty of the church towards them , and receive directions from them . this was the constant practice of the church in the primitive times , until the avarice and ambition of the superior clergy enclosed all alms and donations unto themselves ; the beginning and progress whereof is excellently described and traced by paulus sharpius , in his treatise of matters beneficiary . that maintenance of the poor which they are to distribute , is to be collected by the voluntary contributions of the church , to be made ordinarily every first day of the week , and as occasion shall require in an extraordinary manner , cor. . , . and this contribution of the church ought to be , ( . ) in a way of bounty , not sparingly , cor. . , , . ( . ) in a way of equality , as unto mens abilities , cor. . , . ( . ) with respect unto present successes and thriving in affairs , whereof a portion is due to god ; as god hath prospered him , cor. . . ( . ) with willingness and freedom , cor. . . chap. . wherefore it belongs unto the deacons in the discharge of their office , ( . ) to acquaint the church with the present necessity of the poor . ( . ) to stir up the particular members of it unto a free contribution according unto their ability . ( . ) to admonish those that are negligent herein , who give not according to their porportion ; and to acquaint the elders of the church with those who persist in a neglect of their duty . the consideration of the state of the poor unto whom the contributions of the church are to be ministred , belongs unto the discharge of this office. as , ( . ) that they are poor indeed , and do not pretend themselves so to be , for advantage . ( . ) what are the degrees of their poverty , with respect unto their relations and circumstances , that they may have suitable supplies . ( . ) that in other things they walk according unto rule . ( . ) in particular that they work and labour according to their ability ; for he that will not labour must not eat at the publick charge . ( . ) to comfort , counsel and exhort them unto patience , submission , contentment with their condition , and thankfulness ; all which might be enlarged and confirmed , but that they are obvious . the qualifications of persons to be called unto this office , are distinctly laid down by the apostles , tim. . , , , , , . upon the trial , knowledge and approbation of them , with respect unto these qualifications , their call to this office consists . ( . ) in the choice of the church . ( . ) in a separation unto it by prayer and imposition of hands , act. . , , . and the adjuncts of their ministration are , ( . ) mercy to represent the tenderness of christ towards the poor of the flock , rom. . . ( . ) cheerfulness to relieve the spirits of them that receive against thoughts of being troublesome and burdensome to others . ( . ) diligence and faithfulness by which they purchase to themselves a good degree , and great boldness in the faith which is in christ jesus . it remains only that we enquire into some few things relating unto this office , and those that are called unto it . as , . what is the meaning of the apostle , where he affirms , that the deacons in the discharge of their office , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , tim. . . do purchase or procure unto themselves a good degree . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a step , a degree , a seat a little exalted , and metaphorically it is applied to denote dignity and authority . this good degree , which deacons may obtain , is in the judgment of most the office of presbytery . this they shall be promoted unto in the church . from deacons they shall be made presbyters . i cannot comply with this interpretation of the words . for , ( . ) the office of presbytery is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a good work , no where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a good degree . ( . ) the difference between a deacon and a presbyter is not in degree , but in order . a deacon made a presbyter is not advanced unto a further degree in his own order ; but leaves it for another . ( . ) the diligent discharge of the work of a deacon , is not a due preparation for the office of the presbytery , but an hinderance of it ; for it lies wholly in the providing and disposal of earthly things , in a serving of the tables of the church , and those private of the poor : but preparation for the ministry consists in a mans giving himself unto study , prayer and meditation . i shall only give my conjecture on the words , the apostle seems to me to have respect unto church-order , with decency therein , in both these expressions , shall purchase to themselves a good degree , and great confidence in the faith : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is of the same signification with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which is a seat raised in an assembly to hear or speak . so saith the schol. on sophoc . oed. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the place where the assembly ( or church ) met , was divided round about with seats in degrees , some above others , where all that met might without trouble hear him that stood in the midst as they sate . and countenance is given hereunto by what is observed concerning the custom of sitting in the jewish synagogues . so ambrose ; traditio est synagogae , ut sedentes disputarent , siniores dignitate in cathedris , subsequentes in subselliis , novissimi in pavimento ; it is the tradition or order of the synogogue , that the elders in dignity ( or office ) should discourse sitting in chairs ; the next order on forms or benches , and the last on the floor . so speaks philo before him ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when we meet in sacred places , places of divine worship , the younger sort according to their quality sit in orders under the elders . and this james the apostle hath respect unto in the primitive assemblies of the christian jews . for reproving their partiality in accepting of mens persons , preferring the rich immoderately before the poor , he instanceth in their disposing of them unto seats in their assemblies . they said unto the rich man , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , sit thou here in a good place ; that is in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the best degree ; and to the poor , stand thou there on the floor , or sit at my foot-stool , without respect unto those other qualifications whereby they were to be distinguished . wherefore , the apostle having respect unto church-assemblies , and the order to be observed in them , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here intended , may signifie no more but a place of some eminency in the church-assemblies , which is due unto such deacons , where with boldness and confidence they may assist in the management of the affairs of the church , which belongs unto the profession of the faith which is in christ jesus . if any shall rather think that both of the expressions do signify an encrease in gifts and grace , which is a certain consequence of mens faithful discharge of their office in the church , wherein many deacons of old were eminent unto martyrdom , i shall not contend against it . . whereas there are qualifications expresly required in the wives of deacons , as that they should be grave , not slanderers , sober , faithful in all things , tim. . . which is to be considered before their call to office ; supposing that any of them do fall from the faith as becoming papists , socinians , or quakers , whether their husbands may be continued in their office ? ans. . he who in his own person faithfully dischargeth his office , may be continued therein , yea , though his wife should be actually excommunicated out of the church . every one of us must give an account of himself unto the lord. he rejects us not for what we cannot remedy . the sinning person shall bear his own judgment . ( . ) such an one ought to take care , by virtue of his authority as an husband , that as little offence as possible may be given to the church by his wife , when she loseth the qualification of not being a slanderer , which is inseparable from such apostates . . may a deacon be dismissed from his office wholly , after he hath been solemnly set apart unto it by prayer ? ans. . the very end of the office being only the convenience of the church and its accommodation , the continuation of men in this office is to be regulated by them . and if the church at any time stand not in need of the ministry of this or that person , they may , upon his desire , discharge him of his office. ( . ) things may so fall out with men , as unto their outward circumstances , with respect unto either their persons in bodily distempers and infirmities , or their condition in the world , as that they are not able any longer to attend unto the due discharge of this office ; in which case they ought to be released . ( . ) a man may be solemnly set apart unto a work and duty by prayer for a limited season , suppose for a year only ; wherefore this doth not hinder but that a man on just reasons may be dismissed at any time from his office , though he be so set apart unto it . ( . ) a deacon by unfaithfulness and other offences , may forfeit his office , and be justly excluded from it , losing all his right unto it and interest in it , and therefore on just reasons may be dismissed wholly from it . ( . ) for any one to desert his office through forwardness , covetousness , sloth or negligence , is an offence and scandal which the church ought to take notice of . ( . ) he who desires a dismission from his office , ought to give an account of his desires and the reasons of them unto the church , that the ministry which he held may be duly supplied , and love continued between him and the church . . how many deacons may there be in one congregation ? ans. as many as they stand in need of , for the ends of that ministry ; and they may be at all times encreased , as the state of the church doth require ; and it is meet that there should always be so many , as that none of the poor be neglected in the daily ministration , nor the work be made burdensome unto themselves . . what is the duty of the deacons towards the elders of the church ? ans. whereas the care of the whole church in all its concernments is principally committed unto the pastors , teachers , and elders , it is the duty of the deacons in the discharge of their office , ( . ) to acquaint them from time to time with the state of the church , and especially of the poor , so far as it falls under their inspection . ( . ) to seek and take their advice in matters of greater importance relating unto their office. ( . ) to be assisting unto them in all the outward concerns of the church . . may deacons preach the word and baptize authoritatively by virtue of their office ? ans. ( . ) the deacons , whose office is instituted , act. . and whose qualifications are fixed , tim. . have no call unto , or ministerial power in these things . the limitation of their office , work and power , is so express , as will not admit of any debate . ( . ) persons once called unto this office , might of old in an extraordinary manner , may at present in an ordinary way , be called unto the preaching of the word ; but they were not then , they cannot be now authorized thereunto by vrtue of this office. ( . ) if a new office be erected under the name of deacons , it is in the will of them by whom it is erected , to assign what power unto it they please . chap. x. of excommvnication . the power of the church towards its members ( for it hath nothing to do with them that are without ) may be referred unto three heads , ( . ) the admission of members into its society . ( . ) the rule and edification of them that belong unto it . ( . ) the exclusion out of its society of such as obstinately refuse to live and walk according unto the laws and rules of it . and these things belong essentially and inseparably unto every free society , and are comprehensive of all church-power whatever . the second of these hath been treated of in the discourse concerning church offices and rule . and all that belongs unto the first of them , is fully declared in the chapters of the essential constituent parts of gospel churches , namely their matter and form. the third must be now spoken , unto which is the power of excommunication . there is nothing in christian religion , about which the contest of opinions hath been more fierce than this of excommunication , most of them proceeding evidently from false presumptions and secular interests . and no greater instance can be given of what the serpentine wits of men ingaged by the desire of domination and wealth , and assisted by opportunities may attain unto . for whereas , as we shall see immediately , there is nothing more plain , simple , and more exposed unto the common understanding of all christians , yea of all mankind , than is this institution of christ ; both as unto its nature , form and manner of administration , nothing more wholesome nor useful unto the souls of men ; nothing more remote from giving the least disturbance or prejudice to civil society , to magistrates or rulers , unto the personal or political rights or concernments of any one individual in the world : it hath been metamorphosed into an hideous monster ; an engine of priestly domination and tyranny , for the deposition or assassination of kings and princes , the wasting of nations with bloody wars , the terror of the souls of men , and the destruction of their lives , with all their earthly concerns , unto the erection of a tyrannical empire , no less pernicious unto the christian world , than those of the saracens or the turks . he is a stranger unto all that hath passed in the world for near a thousand years , who knows not the truth of these things . and to this very day the greatest part of them that are called christians are so supinely ignorant and doating , or so infatuated and blinded by their prejudices and corrupt interests , as to suppose , or to say , that if the pope of rome do excommunicate kings or princes , they may be lawfully deposed from their rule , and in some cases killed ; and that other persons being rightly excommunicated according unto certain laws , rules , and processes , that some have framed , ought to be fined , punished , imprisoned , and so destroyed . and about these things there are many disputes and contests ; when if men were awakned out of their lethargy they would be laughed at , as the most ridiculous and contemptible mormo's that ever appeared in the world ; though they are no laughing matter at present , unto them that are concerned in them . supposing then , ecclesiastical excommunication ( as i at present suppose , and shall immediately prove it ) to be an appointment of our lord jesus christ ; these things are plain and evident concerning it , not capable of any modest contradiction , ( . ) that there is no divine evangelical institution , that is more suited unto the light of nature , the rules of common equity , and principles of unseared consciences , as unto the nature , efficacy and rule of it , than this is . ( . ) that the way of the administration and exercise of the power and acts of it , is so determined , described and limited in the scripture , and the light of nature , as that there can be no gross error or mistake about it , but what proceeds from secular interests , pride , ambition , covetousness , or other vitious habits and inclinations of the minds of men. ( . ) that the whole authority of it , its sentence , power and efficacy , are meerly spiritual , with respect unto the souls and consciences of men only ; and that to extend it directly or indirectly , immediately or by consequences , unto the temporal hurt , evil or damage of any in their lives , liberties , estates , natural or legal privileges , is opposite unto , and destructive of the whole government of christ in and over his church . all these things wilfully appear in the account which we shall give of it . it is therefore evident , as was intimated , that nothing in christian practice hath been , or is more abused , corrupted or perverted , than this of excommunication hath been and is . the residence of the supream power of it to be exercised towards and over all christians , rulers and subjects , in the pope of rome , or in other single persons absolutely , over less or greater distributions of them ; the administration of it by citations , processes , pleadings and contentions in wrangling law courts according unto arbitrary canons and constitutions , whose original is either known , or unknown ; the application of it unto the hurt , damage , evil or loss of men in their temporal concerns , are utterly and openly foreign unto the gospel , and expresly contrary unto what the lord christ hath appointed therein . it would require a whole volume to declare the horrible abuses that both in point of right , and in matter of fact , with the pernicious consequences that have ensued thereon , which the corruption of this divine institution hath produced : but to make a declaration hereof , doth not belong to my present design ; besides , it hath in some good measure been done by others . in brief , it is so come to pass that it is made a meer political engine , of an external forcible government , of the persons of men , unto the ends of the interests of some , who have got a pretence of its power , administred by such ways and means , as wherein the consciences of men , neither of those by whom it is administred , nor of those unto whom it is applied , are any way concerned , with respect unto the authority , or any institution of jesus christ. from an observation hereof , and a desire to vindicate as well christian religion from such a scandalous abuse as mankind from bondage , to such a monstrous fiction as is the present power and exercise of it , some have fallen into another extream , denying that there is any such thing as excommunication , appointed or approved by the gospel . but this neither is , nor ever will be a way to reduce religion nor any thing in it , unto its primitive order and purity . to deny the being of any thing because it hath been abused , when there could have been no abuse of it , but upon a supposition of its being , is not a rational way to reprove and convince that abuse . and when those who have corrupted this institution , find the insufficiency of the arguments produced to prove that there never was any such institution , it makes them secure in the practice of their own abuses of it . for they imagine that there is nothing incumbent on them to justify their present possession and exercise of the power of excommunication ; but that excommunication it self is appointed in the church by christ , whereas the true consideration of this appointment , is the only means to divest them of their power and practice . for the most effectual course to discharge and disprove all corruptions in the agenda or practicals of religion , as the sacraments , publick worship , rule and the like , is to propose and declare the things themselves in their original simplicity , and purity , as appointed by christ , and recorded in the scriptures . a real view of them in such a proposal , will divest the minds of men , not corrupted and hardened by prejudice and interest , of those erroneous conceptions of them , that from some kind of tradition they have been prepossessed withal . and this i shall now attempt in this particular of excommunication . there hath been great enquiry about the nature and exercise of this ordinance , under the old testament , with the account given of it by the latter jews . for the right and power of it in general , belongs unto a church as such , every church , and not that which is purely evangelical only . this i shall not enquire into ; it hath been sifted to the bran already , and intermixed with many rabbinical conjectures and mistakes . in general , there is nothing more certain , than that there was a doubl● removal of persons by church-authority , from the communion of the whole congregation in divine worship . the one for a season , the other for ever ; whereof i have given instances elsewhere . but i intend only the consideration of what belongs unto churches under the new testament . and to this end we may observe , . that all lawful societies , constituted such by voluntary confederation , according unto peculiar laws and rules of their own choice , unto especial duties and ends , have a right and power by the light of nature , to receive into their society those that are willing and meet , ingaging themselves to observe the rules , laws and ends of the society ; and to expel them out of it who wilfully deviate from those rules . this is the life and form of every lawful society or community of men in the world , without which they can neither coalesce nor subsist . but it is required hereunto , . that those who so enter into such a society , have right or power so to do . and many things are required unto this end : as , ( . ) that those who enter into such a society be sui juris ; have a lawful right to dispose of themselves , as unto all the duties and ends of such a society . hence children , servants , subjects , have no power in themselves to enter into such societies , without the interposition of and obligation from a power superior unto that of parents , masters , or princes , namely , that of god himself . ( . ) that the rules , laws , and ends of the society be lawful , good and useful unto themselves and others . for there may be a confederation in and for evil ; which is a combination that gives no right nor power , over one another , or towards others that enter into it . ( . ) that it contains nothing that is prejudicial unto others in things divine or humane . ( . ) nor oblige unto the omission or neglect of any duty , that men by virtue of any relations , natural , moral or political , do owe unto others : nor , ( . ) is hurtful unto themselves in their lives , liberties , names , reputation , usefulness in the world , or any thing else , unto whose preservation they are obliged by the law of nature . nor , ( . ) can be , or are such persons obliged to forsake the conduct of themselves in things divine and humane , by the light of their own consciences , by an ingagement of blind obedience unto others , which would render every society unlawful by the law of god and light of nature . ( . ) least of all , have any persons right or power to oblige themselves in such societies , unto things evil , sinful , superstitious or idolatrous . these things are plain , and evident in themselves , and every way sufficient to divest all the religious societies and fraternities that are erected in the church of rome , of all that right and power which belongs unto lawful societies , constituted by voluntary confederation . and if any thing inconsistent with these principles of natural light be pretended in churches , it divests them of all power , as to the exercise of it , by virtue of any compact or confederation whatever . . it is required that a society , by voluntary consent vested with the right and power mentioned , do neither give nor take away any right , privilege or advantage , to , or from any members of the society which belong unto them naturally or politically ; but their power is confined unto those things alone , wherein men may be benefited and advantaged by the society . and this is the foundation of all political societies . men , for the sake and benefit of them , may and ought to forego many particular advantages , which , without them , they might make unto themselves . but they cannot forego any of those rights , which in their several relations are inseparably annexed unto them by the law of nature , nor give power over themselves in such things unto the society . so is it with churches ; the power of expulsion out of their society , extends only unto the benefits and advantages which the society , as such , doth afford and communicate . now these are only things spiritual if churches be an institution of him , whose kingdom is not of this world. the power then that is in churches , by virtue of their being what they are , extends not it self unto any outward concernments of men , as unto their lives , liberties , natural or political privileges , estates or possessions ; unless we shall say , that men hold and possess these things by virtue of their relation unto the church , which is to overthrow all natural and humane right in the world. de facto , men are now compelled whether they will or no , to be esteemed to be of this or that church , and to be dealt withal accordingly . but if they had not been divested of their natural liberty , they know not how , without their own consent , and should be taught , that by entering into a church , they must come under a new tenure of their lives , liberties and estates , at the will of the lords of the society according to the customs of their courts , there would not be so many wise men in churches , as now there are thought to be . but this is the true state of things in the church of rome , and among others also . christians are esteemed to be of them , and belong unto them , whether they will or no. immediately hereon all the rights , liberties , privileges , possessions which they enjoy by the law of god and nature , and by the just laws and constitutions of men in civil governments , under which they live , come to depend upon , and be subject unto the especial laws and rules of the society which they are adjudged to belong unto . for upon expulsion out of that society by excommunication , according unto the laws and rules which it hath framed unto it self , all their rights and titles , and liberties and enjoyments are forfeited and exposed to ruine . some indeed do earnestly and learnedly contend that the pope of rome hath not power to excommunicate sovereign kings and princes ; and that if he do , they make no forfeiture of life or dignity thereby . and there are good reasons why they do so . but in the mean time , they deal with other poor men after the same manner . for if a poor man be excommunicated , immediately he loseth the free tenure of his life , liberty and goods , by the law of the church and the land , and is committed to the gaol without bail or mainprize . so that by this artifice , all men hold their natural and civil rights , by the rules of the church society whereto they are supposed to belong . and as this utterly overthrows the foundation of all that property according to the laws of the land , which is so much talked of and valued ; so indeed it would be destructive of all order and liberty , but that the church is wise enough not to employ this engine unto great men and men in power , who may yet deserve excommunication as well as some of their poor neighbours , if the gospel be thought to give the rule of it . but those that are poor , helpless and friendless , shall in the pursuit of this excommunication be driven from their houses , cast into prisons , and kept there until they and their families starve and perish . and it is apparent that we are beholding unto the greatness , authority , and wealth of many , whom the ecclesiastical courts care not to conflict withal , that the whole nation is not actually brought under this new tenure of their lives , liberties and estates , which on this presumption they are obnoxious unto . and all this evil ariseth from the neglect and contempt of this fundamental rule of all societies , apparent unto all in the light of nature it self ; namely , that they have no power in or over any thing , right , privilege or advantage , but what men are made partakers of by virtue of such societies , their rule and laws whereunto they are obliged . but of this sort are not the lives , the liberties , the houses and possessions of men , with respect unto the church . they receive them not from the church , and a man would certainly think , that the church could not take them away . yea , we live and subsist in order , upon the good nature and wisdom of men , who judge it best neither to exert their power , nor act their principles in this matter . for , whereas they esteem all the inhabitants of the land to belong unto their church ; if they should in the first place excommunicate all that ought to be excommunicated by the rule and law of the gospel , and then all that ought to be so , according to their own laws and canons , both which a man would think they were obliged in point of conscience unto ; and in pursuit of their sentence , send out the capias for them all , i very much question whether any of them would go to prison or no ; and then in what a fine case would this government be ; and if they should all go to gaol , i am perswaded the king would be in an ill state to defend his realms against his enemies . . every society hath this power towards those who are incorporated in it by their own consent , and not towards others . for whence should they have such a power , or who should commit it unto them ? nor can any be cast out from those privileges which they never had an interest in , nor a right unto . the apostles rule holds in this case , especially with respect unto churches ; what have we to do to judge them that are without . and as unto the exercise of this power , they are all to be esteemed to be without , who are not rightly incorporated into that particular church , by which they may be ejected out of it . a power of excommunication at random towards all that those who exercise it can extend force unto , hath no foundation either in the light of nature or authority of the scripture . and it would be ridiculous in any corporation to disfranchise such as never belonged unto it , who were never members of it . . the only reason or cause for the expulsion of any person out of such a society , is a wilful deviation from the rules and laws of the society , whose observance he had engaged unto upon his entrance into it . nothing else can be required unto the preservation of a mans interest in any right or privilege , but what he took upon himself to perform in his admittance into it . and if the great rule of every church-society , be , that men observe and do whatsoever the lord christ hath commanded , none can be justly ejected out of that society , but upon a wilful disobedience unto his commands . and therefore the casting of men out of church ▪ communion on light and trivial occasions , or for any reasons or causes whatever , but such as essentially belong unto the rules and laws whereon the church doth originally coalesce into a society , is contrary unto natural light , and the reason of the things themselves . thus far i say is every lawful confederate society enabled and warranted by the light of nature , to remove from its communion , and from a participation in its rights and privileges any of its number who will not walk according to the rules and principles of its coalescency and constitution . whereas therefore the rule of the constitution of the church is , that men walk together in holy obedience unto the commands of christ , and the observance of all his institutions , without giving offence unto one another , or those that are without , by any sinful miscarriage , and do abide in the profession of the truth ; if any one shall wilfully and obstinately transgress in any of these things , it is the right and duty , and in the power of the church to remove him from its society . but this is not the entire nor the next immediate ground , reason , or warranty of ecclesiastical excommunication . for this natural equity will not extend it self unto cases that are in things spiritual and supernatural ; nor will the actings of the church thereon reach unto the consciences of men , for the proper ends of excommunication . wherefore it was necessary that it should have a peculiar institution in the church by the authority of jesus christ. for , . the church is such a society as no men have right or power either to enter into themselves , or to exclude others from , but by virtue of the authority of christ. no warranty from the light of nature , or from the laws of men , or their own voluntary confederation , can enable any to constitute a church-society , unless they do all things expresly in obedience unto the authority of christ. for his church is his kingdom , his house ; which none can constitute or build but himself . wherefore it is necessary , that the power of admission into , and exclusion from the church , do arise from his grant and institution . nor is it in the power of any men in the world , to admit into , or exclude from this society but by virtue thereof . . excommvnication is an act of authority , as we shall see afterwards . but no authority can be exercised in the church , towards any person whatever , but by virtue of the institution of christ. for the authority it self however ministerially exercised by others , is his alone ; and he exerts it not , but in the ways of his own appointment . so in particular the apostle directs , that excommunication be exerted in the name of our lord jesus christ ; that is , in and by his authority , cor. . . . the privileges from which men are excluded by excommunication are not such , as they have any natural or civil right unto ( as hath been proved ) but meerly such as are granted unto the church by jesus christ ; and men cannot by virtue of any agreement among themselves , without a warranty from him by his institution , expel others from the privileges which are meerly of his grant and donation . he alone therefore hath given and granted this power unto the church , namely of excluding any by the rules and ways of his appointment from the privileges of his grant , which is the peculiar power of excommunication inquired after . . there is such an efficacy assigned unto excommunication in binding the consciences of men , in retaining their sins , in the destruction or mortification of the flesh , in the healing and recovery of sinners ; as nothing but the authority of a divine institution can give unto it . by virtue of natural light and mutual consent , men may free themselves from the company and society of those who will not walk with them according to rules of communion agreed upon among them ; but they cannot reach the minds and consciences of others with any of these effects . . that excommunication is an express ordinance of our lord jesus christ in his churches is fully declared in the scripture . for , ( . ) the power of it is contained in the authority given by christ unto the church , under the name of the keys of the kingdom of heaven . for the power expressed therein is not meerly doctrinal and declarative as is the preaching of the gospel , the consequent whereof upon the faith or unbelief of them that hear it , is the remitting or retaining of their sin in heaven and earth ; but it is disciplinary also , as it is appropriated unto the house whose keys are committed unto the stewards of it . and seeing the design of christ was to have his church holy , vnblamable and without offence in the world , that therein he might make a representation of his own holiness , and the holiness of his rule ; and whereas those of whom it is constituted , are liable and subject unto sins scandalous and offensive , reflecting dishonour on himself and the church , in being the occasion of sinning unto others ; that design would not have been accomplished , had he not given this authority unto his church to cast out and separate from it self all that do by their sins so give offence . and the neglect of the exercise of this authority in a due manner , was the principal means whereby the glory , honour , and usefulness of the churches in the world , were at length utterly lost . ( . ) it hath a direct institution , matth. . , , , , , . if thy brother shall trespass , &c. tell it unto the church ; but if he neglect to hear the church , let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican . verily i say unto you , whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven , and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth , shall be loosed in heaven , &c. after all the learned and unlearned contests that have been about this place , the sence of it is plain and obvious , unto such as whose minds are not clouded with prejudices about such churches and such excommunications as are utterly foreign unto the scripture . but that by trespasses in this place , sins against god giving scandal or offence , are intended , hath been proved before ; as also , that by a church , a particular christian congregation is intended . this church hath the cognizance of the scandalous offences of its members committed unto it , when brought before it in the due order described . hereon it makes a determination , designing in the first place the recovery of the person offending , from his sin , by his hearing of its counsel and advice . but in case of obstinacy , it is to remove him from its communion , leaving him in the outward condition of an heathen and a publican . so is he to be esteemed by them that were offended with his sin , and that because of the authority of the church binding him in heaven and earth unto the punishment due unto his sin , unless he doth repent . the rejection of an offending brother out of the society of the church , leaving him as unto all the privileges of the church , in the state of an heathen , declaring him liable unto the displeasure of christ , and everlasting punishment without repentance , is the excommunication we plead for ; and the power of it , with its exercise , is plainly here granted by christ and ordained in the church . ( . ) according unto this institution was the practice of the apostles , whereof we have several instances . i might insist upon the excommunication of simon the magician , a baptized professor , by peter , who declared him to have neither part or lot in the church upon the discovery of his wickedness , act. . , , , , . yet because it was the single act of one apostle , and so may be esteemed extraordinary , i shall omit it . however , that fact of the apostle is sufficiently declarative of what is to be done in the church in like cases , and which if it be not done , it cannot be preserved in its purity according unto the mind of christ. but that which was directed by the apostle paul in the church of corinth towards the incestuous person , is express , cor. . , , , , . ( . ) he declares the sin whereof the person charged was guilty , with the ignominy and scandal of it , ver. . ( . ) he blames the church that they had not been affected with the guilt and scandal of it , so as to have proceeded to his removal or expulsion out of the church , that he might be taken away or cut off from them , ver. . ( . ) he declares his own judgment in the case , that he ought to be so taken away or removed , which yet was not actually effected by that judgment and sentence of his , ver. . ( . ) he declares the causes of this excision . ( . ) the supream efficient cause of it , is the power or authority of the lord jesus christ instituting this ordinance in his church , giving right and power unto it for its administration , in the name of our lord jesus christ , and with his power . ( . ) the declarative cause of the equity of this sentence , which was the spirit of the apostle , or the authoritative declaration of his judgment in the case , with my spirit . ( . ) the instrumental ministerial cause of it , which is the church ; do it in the name of the lord jesus christ , when you are gathered together , ver. . and thereby purge out the old leaven , that you may be a new lump , ver. . whence the punishment of this sentence is said to be inflicted by many , cor. . . that is , all those who on his repentance were obliged to forgive and comfort him , that is the whole church , ver. . ( . ) the nature of the sentence is the delivering of such an one to satan for the destruction of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus , ver. . not the destruction of his body by death , but the through mortification of the flesh , whereby he was shortly afterwards recovered and restored into his former condition . the whole of what we plead for , is here exemplified ; as , ( . ) the cause of excommunication , which is a scandalous sin unrepented of . ( . ) the preparation for its execution , which is the churches sence of the sin and scandal , with humiliation for it . ( . ) the warranty of it , which is the institution of christ , wherein his authority is engaged . ( . ) the manner and form of it , by an act of authority with the consent of the whole church . ( . ) the effect of it in a total separation from the privileges of the church . ( . ) the end of it . ( . ) with respect unto the church , its purging and vindication . ( . ) with respect unto the person excommunicated ; his repentance , reformation and salvation . it is usually replied hereunto , that this was an extraordinary act of apostolical power , and so not to be drawn by us into example . for he himself both determines the case , and asserteth his presence in spirit , that is by his authority to be necessary unto what was done . besides , it was a delivery of the man to satan , that is , into his power to be afflicted and cruciated by him , to be terrified in his mind , and punished in his body to the destruction of the flesh , that is unto death . such was the delivery of a man to satan by the apostle mentioned here , and tim. . , . in the judgment of many of the ancients . but there is no such power in any church at present to deliver an offender unto satan , nor any appearing effects of such a pretence . wherefore , this is a matter which belongs not unto churches at present . i answer , ( . ) what the apostles did in any church , whether present or absent , by their own authority , did not prejudice the right of the churches themselves , nor their power acted in subordination unto them and their guidance . so it is evident in this place , that notwithstanding the exerting of any apostolical power intimated , the church it self is charged with its duty , and directed to exercise its authority in the rejection of the offender . ( . ) there is nothing extraordinary in the case . ( . ) it is not so that a member of a church should fall into a scandalous sin , unto the dishonour of christ and the church , giving offence unto persons of all sorts . ( . ) it is an ordinary rule , founded in the light of nature , confirmed here and elsewhere by express divine commands , that such an one be rejected from the society and communion of the church , until he give satisfaction by repentance and reformation . ( . ) it is that without which the church cannot be preserved in its purity , nor its being be continued , as both reason and experience do manifest . ( . ) the judgment both of the fact and right was left unto the church it self , whence it was afterwards highly commended by the apostle for the diligent discharge of its duty herein , cor. . in brief , it is such a divine order that is here prescribed , as without the observance whereof , no church can long subsist . ( . ) there is no difficulty in the other part of the objection , about the delivery unto satan . for , ( . ) it cannot be proved , that hereon the offender was delivered so into the power of satan to be cruciated , agitated , and at length killed , as some imagine ; nor can any instance of any such thing , be given in the scripture or antiquity ; though there be many of them , who upon their rejection out of the church , were enraged unto an opposition against it , as it was with simon magus , marcian , and others . ( . ) yea , it is evident that there was no such thing included in their delivery unto satan , as is pretended . for the design and end of it was the mans humiliation , recovery and salvation , as is expresly affirmed in the text ; and this effect is actually had , for the man was healed and restored . wherefore , this delivery unto satan , is an ordinance of christ for the exciting of saving grace in the souls of men , adapted unto the case of falling by scandalous sins , peculiarly effectual above any other gospel ordinance . now this cannot be such a delivery unto satan , as that pretended , which can have no other end but destruction and death . ( . ) this delivery unto satan is no more but the casting of a man out of the visible kingdom of christ , so giving him up as unto his outward condition into the state of heathens and publicans which belonged unto the kingdom of satan . for he , who by the authority of christ himself , according unto his law and institution , is not only debarred from a participation of all the privileges of the gospel , but also visibly and regularly devested of all present right to them and interest in them , he belongs unto the visible kingdom of satan . the gathering of men by conversion into the church , is the turning of them from the power of satan unto god , act. . . a delivery from the power of darkness , that is , the kingdom of satan , and a translation unto the kingdom of christ , col. . . wherefore , after a man hath by faith , and his conjunction unto a visible church , been translated into the kingdom of christ , his just rejection out of it , is the redelivery of him into the visible kingdom of satan , which is all that is here intended . and this is an act suited unto the end whereunto it is designed . for a man hereby is not taken out of his own power and the conduct of his own mind , not acted or agitated by the devil , but is left unto the sedate consideration of his present state and condition . and this , if there be any spark of ingenuous grace left in him , will be effectually operative , by shame , grief and fear , unto his humiliation , especially understanding that the design of christ and his church herein , is only his repentance and restauration . here is therefore , in his instance , an everlasting rule given unto the church in all ages , the ordinary occurrences of the like cases requiring an ordinary power for relief in them , without which the church cannot be preserved . that it is the duty of the church enjoined unto it by the lord jesus christ , and that necessary unto its glory , it s own honour and edification to reject scandalous offenders out of its communion , is evidently declared in this place : and to suppose that to be the duty of the church , which it hath no power or authority to discharge , ( seeing without them it cannot be discharged ) is a wild imagination . . the duty of the church herein , with such other particular duties as suppose the institution hereof , are in many places directed and enjoined . it is so in that insisted on , cor. . the foundation of the whole discourse and practice of the apostle there recorded lies in this , that churches ought to cut off from among them scandalous offenders ; and that to the end they may preserve themselves pure ; and that this they ought to do in the name of christ , and by virtue of his authority , vers. , , . and this is the whole of that excommunication which we plead for . the manner of its administration we shall consider afterwards , cor. chap. . , , . the apostle commends the church for what they had done in the excommunication of the incestuous person , calling it a punishment , inflicted on him by them , vers. . he gives also an account of the effect of this sentence against him , which was his humiliation and repentance , vers. . and hereon gives direction for his restauration , by an act of the church forgiving him , and confirming their love unto him . men may fansie to themselves strange notions of excommunication , with reference unto its power , the residence of that power , its effects , extent and ends ; and so either on the one hand erect it into an engine of arbitrary domination over the church and all the members of it ; or deny on the other , that there is any such institution of christ in force in his churches . but we can be taught nothing more plainly of the mind of christ , than that he hath given power unto his church to cast out of their communion obstinate scandalous offenders , and to restore them again upon their repentance , enjoining it unto them as their duty . and it is an evidence of a woful degeneracy in churches , from their primitive institution , when this sentence is so administred , as that it hath an effect , by virtue of humane laws , or the outward concerns of men , but no influence on their consciences unto humiliation and repentance , which is the principal end of its appointment . the apostle treats of the same matter , gal. . , , , , , . he speaks of those false teachers who opposed and overthrew what lay in them , the fundamental doctrine of the gospel . these at that time were in great power and reputation in the churches of the galatians whom they had corrupted with their false opinions ; so as that the apostle doth not directly enjoin their immediate excision ; yet he declares what they did deserve , and what was the duty of the church towards them , when freed from their delusions , vers. . i would they were even cut off that trouble you . men have exercised their minds in curious conjectures about the sence of these words , altogether in vain and needlesly . the curiosity of some of the best of the ancients , applying it unto a forcible eunuchism is extreamly fond . no other excision is intended , but that which was from the church , and to be done by the church in obedience unto the truth . neither the subject matter treated of , the nature of the crime condemned , nor the state of the church , or design of the apostle , will admit of any other exposition , thessal . . . the apostle gives command unto the brethren of the church , and that in the name of our lord jesus christ , to withdraw from every brother that walketh disorderly . what it is to walk disorderly he declares immediately , namely , to live in an open disobedience unto any of the commands of christ , not after the tradition which he received of us , that is , the doctrine of the gospel which he had delivered unto them . this withdrawing is as unto church-communion , which cannot be done but upon some act of the church , depriving them of the rights of it . for if every member of the church should be left unto his own judgment and practice herein , it would bring all things into confusion . and therefore , vers. . he requires that a note be set on such a person by the church , that is , a sentence be denounced against him , before the duty of withdrawing from him by the brethren be incumbent on them . see to the same purpose tit. . , . tim. . . revel . . , , , , . it is therefore evident that this censure , judgment , spiritual punishment , is an institution of christ , for whose administration he hath given authority unto his church , as that which is necessary unto its edification , with its preservation in honour , purity and order . there have been many disputes about it , as unto its order and kinds . some suppose that there are two sorts of excommunication ; the one they call the lesser , and the other the greater : some three sorts , as it is supposed there were among the jews . there is no mention in the scripture of any more sorts , but one , or of any degrees therein . a segregation from all participation in church-order , worship and privileges , is the only excommunication spoken of in the scripture . but whereas an offending person may cause great disorder in a church , and give great scandal unto the members of it , before he can be regularly cut off or expelled the society ; some do judge that there should a suspension of him from the lords table at least , precede total or compleat excommunication in case of impenitency . and it ought in some cases so to be . but this suspension is not properly an especial institution ; but only an act of prudence in church-rule to avoid offence and scandal . and no men question but that this is lawful unto , yea , the duty of the rulers of the church , to require any one to forbear for a season from the use of their privilege in the participation of the supper of the lord , in case of scandal and offence which would be taken at it , and ensue thereon . and if any person shall refuse a submission unto them in this act of rule , the church hath no way for its relief , but to proceed unto the total removal of such a person from their whole communion . for the edification of the whole church must not be obstructed by the refractoriness of any one among them . this excommunication , as we have proved before , is an act of church-authority , exerted in the name of our lord jesus christ. and if so , then it is an act of the officers of the church , namely , so far as it is authoritative ; for there is no authority in the church properly so called , but what resides in the officers of it . there is an office in the church , which is meerly ministerial without any formal authority , that is of the deacons . but there is no authority in exercise , but what is in the elders and rulers of the church . and there are two reasons , which prove that the power of excommunication , as to the authoritative exercise of it , is in the elders of the church . ( . ) because the apostles , by virtue of their office-power in every church , did join in the authoritative excommunication , as is plain in the case insisted on , cor. . and there is no office-power now remaining , but what is in the elders of the church . ( . ) it is an act of rule . but all rule , properly so called , is in the hands of rulers only . we may add hereunto , that the care of the preservation of the edification of all its members , of the correction and salvation of offenders , is principally incumbent on them , or committed unto them as we have declared ; as also , that they are best able to judge when and for what this sentence ought to be denounced against any , which requires their best skill in the wisdom of spiritual rule . and therefore the omission of the exercise of it , when it was necessary , is charged as a neglect on the angels or rulers of the churches , as the due execution of it is commended in them . and therefore unto them it doth belong with respect unto their office , and is thereon an office-act , or an act of authority . howbeit , it cannot be denied , but that the interest , yea , the power of the whole church in the fraternity of it , is greatly to be considered herein . for indeed , where-ever the apostle treats of it , he doth not any where recommend it unto the officers of the church in a peculiar manner , but unto the whole church and the brethren therein . this is evident in the places before quoted . wherefore the whole church is concerned herein , both in point of duty , interest , and power . ( . ) in point of duty ; for by virtue of the mutual watch of all the members of the church over each other , and of the care incumbent on every one of them , for the good , the honour , the reputation and edification of the whole , it is their duty jointly and severally to endeavour the purging out from among them of every thing that is contrary unto those ends . and they who are not concerned in these things , are dead and useless members of the church . ( . ) in interest , they have also a concernment therein . they are to look that no root of bitterness spring up amongst them , lest themselves are at length defiled thereby . it is usually said , that the good are not defiled by holding communion with them that are wicked in a participation of holy ordinances . and there is some truth in what is said , with reference unto wicked undiscovered hypocrites ; or such as are not scandalously flagitious : but to promote this perswasion , so as to beget an opinion in church-members , that they are no way concerned in the scandalous sins and lives of those with whom they walk in all duties of spiritual communion , openly avowing themselves members of the same body with them , is a diabolical engine invented to countenance churches in horrible security unto their ruine . but yet besides that defilement , which may be contracted in a joint participation of the same ordinances with such persons ; there are other ways almost innumerable , whereby their example , if passed by without animadversion , may be pernicious unto their faith , love and obedience . wherefore they are obliged in point of spiritual interest , as they take care of their own souls , to concurr in the ejection out of the church , of obstinate offenders . ( . ) in point of power . for the execution of this sentence is committed unto and rests in the body of the church . according as they concurr and practise , so it is put in execution or suspended ; for it is they who must withdraw communion from them , or the sentence is of no use or validity ; this punishment must be inflicted by the many , who also are to restore him who is so rebuked . wherefore , excommunication , without the consent of the church , is a meer nullity . but if any one shall say , that excommunication is not an act of authority nor of office , but of power residing in the community resulting from their common suffrage , guided and directed by the officers or elders of the church , i shall again take up this enquiry immediately , and speak unto it more distinctly ; lest what is here spoken should not be sufficient unto the satisfaction of any . our next enquiry is concerning the object of this church censure ; or who they are that ought to be excommunicated . and , . they must be members of that church , by which the sentence is to be denounced against them . and this , as we have proved before , they cannot be without their own consent . one church cannot excommunicate the members of another . they are unto them as unto this matter without , and they have no power to judge them . the foundation of the right to proceed against any herein , is in their own voluntary engagement to observe and keep the rules and laws of the society whereunto they are admitted . the offence is given unto that church in the first place , if not only . and it is an act of the church for its own edification . and there is a nullity in the sentence which is ordained , decreed or denounced by any who are not officers of that church in particular , wherein the sin is committed . . these church-members that may be justly excommunicated , are of two sorts . . such as continue obstinate in the practice of any scandalous sin , after private and publick admonition . the process from the first offence in admonition , is so stated in ordinary cases , matth. . that there is no need farther to declare it . the time that is to be allotted unto the several degrees of it , shall be spoken unto afterwards . and unto a right judgment of obstinacy in any scandalous sin , it is required , ( . ) that the sin considered in it self be such , as is owned to be such , by all , without doubting , dispute or haesitation . it must be some sin that is judged and condemned in the light of nature , or in the express testimony of scripture ; yea , such as the holy ghost witnesseth , that continued in without repentance , it is inconsistent with salvation . if the thing it self , to be animadverted on , be dubious or disputable whether it be a sin or no , especially such a sin , either from the nature of the fact , or the qualifications of the person offending , or from other circumstances , so as that the guilty person is not self-condemned , nor are others fully satisfied in their minds about the nature of it , there is no room for excommunication in such cases . and if it be once allowed to be applied towards any sins , but such as are evident to be so ( as the apostle says , the works of the flesh are manifest ) in the light of nature , and express testimony of scripture , not only will the administration of it be made difficult , a matter of dispute , unfit for the determination of the body of the church , but it will leave it unto the wills of men to prostitute unto litigious brawls , quarrels and differences , wherein interest and partiality may take place ; which is to profane this divine institution . but confine it as it ought to be , unto such sins as are condemned in the light of nature , or by express testimony of scripture , as inconsistent with salvation by jesus christ , if persisted in , and all things that belong unto the administration of it , will be plain and easie . from the neglect of this rule proceeded that horrible confusion and disorder in excommunication and the administration of it , which for sundry ages prevailed in the world. for as it was mostly applied unto things holy , just , and good , or the performance of such gospel duties as men owed to christ , and their own souls ; so being exercised with respect unto irregularities , that are made such meerly by the arbitrary constitutions and laws of men , and that in cases frivolous , trifling , and of no importance , it was found necessary to be managed in and by such courts , such processes , such forms of law , such pleadings and intricacies of craft , such a burden of cost and charge , as is uncertain whether it ought to be more bewailed , or derided . . it is required hereunto , that the matter of fact , as unto the relation of the sin unto the particular offender , be confessed , or not denied , or clearly proved . how far this is to extend , and what ground of procedure there may be in reports or fame concurring with leading circumstances , we shall enquire afterwards . and although in such cases of publick fame , a good testimony from those of credit and repute in the church given unto the supposed guilty person , is of use and sufficient in some cases , singly to oppose unto publick reports ; yet to require a man to purge himself by others , from any feigned scandalous imputation , is an unwarrantable tyranny . . it is also required , that the previous process in and by private and publick admonition , and that repeated with patient waiting for the success of each of them , be duly premised . whether this extend it self unto all causes of excommunication , shall be afterwards enquired into . ordinarily it is so necessary unto the conviction of the mind and conscience of the offender , and to leave him without either provocation from the church , or excuse in himself , so suited to be expressive of the grace and patience of christ toward sinners , so requisite unto the satisfaction of the church it self in their proceedure , as that the omission of it will probably render the sentence useless and ineffectual . a crying out , i admonish a first , a second , a third time , and so to excommunication , is a very absurd observation of a divine institution . . it is required , that the case of the person to be censured as unto his profession of repentance on the one hand , or obstinacy on the other , be judged and determined by the whole church in love and compassion . there are few who are so profligately wicked , but that , when the sin wherewith they are charged , is evidently such in the light of nature and scripture , and when it is justly proved against them , they will make some profession of sorrow and repentance . whether this be sufficient , as in most cases it is , to suspend the present proceeding of the church , or quite to lay it aside , is left unto the judgment of the church it self , upon consideration of present circumstances , and what is necessary unto its own edification . only this rule must be continually observed , that the least appearance of haste or undue precipitation herein , is to be avoided in all these cases , as the bane of church-rule and order . again , the manner of its administration , according to the mind of christ , may be considered . and hereunto are required , ( . ) prayer , without which it can no way be administred in the name of our lord jesus christ. the administration of any solemn ordinance of the gospel , without prayer , is an horrible profanation of it . and the neglect or contempt hereof , in any who take upon them to excommunicate others , is an open proclamation of the nullity of their act and sentence . and the observation of the administration of it without any due reverence of god , without solemn invocation of the name of christ , thereby ingaging his presence and authority in what they do , is that principally which hath set the consciences of all mankind at liberty from any concernment in this ecclesiastical censure ; and whence those that administer it expect no other success of what they do , but what they can give it by outward force . and where this fails , excommunication is quickly laid aside . as it was when the pope threatned the cantons of the swissers , that if they complied not with some of his impositions , he would excommunicate them ; whereon they sent him word they would not be excommunicated , which ended the matter . wherefore , when our lord jesus christ gives unto his church the power of binding and loosing , directing them in the exercise of that power , he directs them to ask assistance by prayer , when they are gathered together , matth. . , , . and the apostle directs the church of corinth , that they should proceed unto this sentence when they were gathered together in the name of the lord jesus christ , cor. . . which could not be without calling on his name . in brief , without prayer , neither is the ordinance it self sanctified unto the church , nor are any meet to administer it , nor is the authority of christ either owned or engaged , nor divine assistance attained ; neither is what is done any more excommunication than any rash curse is , so that many proceed inordinately out of the mouths of men. and the prayer required herein is of three sorts . ( . ) that which is previous for guidance and direction in a matter of so great weight and importance . it is no small thing to fall into mistakes , when men act in the name of christ , and so engage his authority in what he will not own . and the best of men , the best of churches , are liable unto such mistakes , where they are not under the guidance of the holy spirit , which is to be obtained by prayer only . ( . ) in , or together with the administration of it ; that what is done on earth may be ratified in heaven , by the approbation of christ , and be made effectual unto its proper end. ( . ) it must be followed with the prayer of the church unto the same purpose ; all with respect unto the humiliation , repentance , healing and recovery of the offender . ly , it is to be accompanied with lamentation or mourning . so the apostle reproving the church of corinth for the omission of it when it was necessary , tells them , that they had not mourned ; that the offender might be taken away from among them , cor. . . it is not to be done without mourning : and himself calls the execution of this sentence from this adjunct , his bewailing of them . i shall bewail many that have sinned already , cor. . . compassion for the person offending , with respect unto that dangerous condition whereinto he hath cast himself ; the excision of a member of the same body with whom they have had communion in the most holy mysteries of divine worship , and sate down at the table of the lord , with a due sense of the dishonour of the gospel by his fall , ought to ingenerate this mourning or lamentation in the minds of them who are concern'd in the execution of the sentence . nor is it advisable for any church to proceed thereunto , before they are so affected . ly , it is to be accompanied with a due sence of the future judgment of christ. for we herein judge for christ , in the matters of his house and kingdom . and woe to them who dare pronounce this sentence without a perswasion on good grounds , that it is the sentence of christ himself . and there is a representation also in it of the future judgment , when christ will eternally cut off and separate from himself all hypocrites and impenitent sinners . this is well expressed by tertullian , ibidem etiam exhortationes , castigationes & censura divina ( speaking of the assemblies of the church ) nam & judicatur magno cum pondere , ut apud certos de dei conspectu ; summumque futuri judicii praejudicium est , si quis ita d liquerit ut a communicatione orationis & conventus , & omnis sancti commercii relegetur , apol. cap. . were this duty observed , it would be a preservative against that inter-mixture of corrupt affections , and corrupt ends , which often impose themselves on the minds of men , in the exercise of this power . lastly , the nature and end of this judgment or sentence being corrective , not vindicative ; for healing , not destruction , what is the duty of the church , and those principally concerned in the pursuit of it to render it effectual , is plainly evident . of what use a significavit and capias may be in this case i know not ; they belong not unto christian religion ; much less do fire and faggot do so . prayer for the person cut off ; admonition as occasion is offered ; compa●sion in his distressed estate , which is so much the more deplorable , if he know it not ; forbearance from common converse , with readiness for the restauration of love , in all the fruits of it , contain the principal duties of the church , and all the members of it towards them that are justly excommunicate . what farther belongeth unto this head of church-rule or order shall be spoken unto in the resolution of some cases or enquiries , wherein also some things only mentioned already , shall be more fully explained . i have made some enquiry before , whether excommunication be an act of authority and jurisdiction in the officers of the church , or an act of power in the fraternity of the church . but for the sake of some by whom it is desired , i shall a little more distinctly enquire after the truth herein ; though i shall alter nothing of what was before laid down . and , . it is certain , it hath been proved , and i now take it for granted , that the lord christ hath given this power unto the church . wherefore in the exercise of this power , both the officers and members of the church are to act according unto their respective interests . for that exercise of power in the church towards any , which is not an act of obedience unto christ , in them that exercise it , it is in it self null . there is therefore no distinction or distribution of power in the church , but by the interposition of especial duty . . the institution of christ , with respect unto a church as it is a peculiar society for its especial ends , do not deprive it of its natural right , as it is a society . there is in every community , by voluntary confederation , a natural right and power to expel those from its society , who will not be ruled by the laws of its constitution . and if the church should , by the institution of a power , new as unto the way , manner and ends of its exercise , be deprived of its original , radical power , with respect unto the general end of its own preservation , it would not be a gainer by that institution . it may be easily understood , that the lord christ should in particular appoint the way and manner of the exercise of this power or administration of this sentence , committing the care thereof unto the officers of the church . but it cannot be well understood , that thereby he should deprive the church of its right , and forbid them their duty in preserving their society entire and pure . neither can it be so in an especial manner committed unto any , as that upon their neglect , whereby those who by the law and rule of christ , ought to be cast out of the churches communion , are continued in it unto its sin and defilement , the church it self should be free from guilt . wherefore the apostle expresly chargeth the whole church of corinth with sin and neglect of duty , in that the incestuous person was not put away from among them : this could not be , if so be the power of it were so in the hands of a few of the officers , that the church had no right to act in it . for none can incurr a guilt meerly by the defect of others in the discharge of their duty . . the church essentially considered is before its ordinary officers ; for the apostle ordained officers in every church . but the church in that state hath power to put away from among them and their communion an obstinate offender . they have it , as they are a society , by voluntary confederation . wherein this comes short of authoritative excommunication , will immediately appear . . where a church is compleat and organized with its stated rulers , as the church of corinth was , yet rules , instructions and commands are given expresly unto the fraternity or community of the church , for their duty and acting in the administration of this sentence , and the cutting off an offender , cor. . , , , . cor. . , . yea , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or infliction of the sentence , is ascribed unto them , ver. . all these things do suppose a right and duty thereon to act according to their interest in excommunication , to reside in the whole church : wherefore , . there are some acts belonging hereunto , that the church it self in the body of the fraternity , cannot be excluded from without destroying the nature of the sentence it self , and rendring it ineffectual . such are the previous cognizance of the cause , without which they cannot be blamed for any neglect about it ; preparatory duties unto its execution , in prayer , mourning and admonition , which are expresly prescribed unto them ; and a testification of their consent unto it , by their common suffrage . without these things , excommunication is but a name with a noise ; it belongs not unto the order appointed by christ in his church . . hence arise the duties of the church towards an excommunicated person , that are consequential unto his exclusion from among them . such are praying for him , as one noted by the church , and under the discipline of christ ; avoiding communion with him in publick and private , that he may be ashamed , and the like ; all which arise from their own voluntary actings in his exclusion ; and such , as without a judgment of the cause , they cannot be obliged unto . . yet on the other side , unto the formal compleatness of this sentence , an authoritative act of office-power is required . for , ( . ) there is in it such an act of rule , as is in the hands of the elders only . ( . ) the executive power of the keys in binding and loosing , so far as it comprizeth authority to be acted in the name of christ , is entrusted with them only . . wherefore i shall say no more in answer unto this enquiry ; but that excommunication is an act of church-power in its officers and brethren , acting according unto their respective rights , interests , and duties particularly prescribed unto them . the officers of the church act in it as officers with authority , the brethren or the body of the church with power ; yet so , as that the officers are no way excluded from their power , consent and suffrage in the acting of the church , but have the same interest therein with all other members of the church ; but the community of the church have no interest in those authoritative actings of the officers which are peculiar unto them . where either of these is wanting , the whole duty is vitiated , and the sence of the sentence rendred ineffectual . i. it is enquired , whether excommunication , justly deserved , may and ought to be omitted in case of trouble , or danger that may ensue unto the church therein . it is usually granted that so it may and ought to be ; which seems in general to have been the judgment of austin . the troubles and dangers intended , are three-fold . ( . ) from the thing it self . ( . ) from the persons to be excommunicated . ( . ) from the church . . trouble may arise from the thing it self . for there being an exercise of authority or jurisdiction in it over the persons of men , not granted from the civil magistrate by the law of the land , those that execute it may be liable unto penalties ordained in such cases . . the persons to be excommunicated may be great , and of great interest in the world , so as that if they receive a provocation hereby , they may occasion or stir up persecution against the church , as it hath often fallen out . . the church it self may be divided on these considerations , so as that lasting differences may be occasioned among them , which the omission of the sentence might prevent . for answer hereunto , some things must be premised . as , . here is no supposition of any thing sinful or morally evil in the church , its officers , or any of its members , by refusing to omit the pronouncing of this sentence . whether there be any sin in giving occasion unto the troubles mentioned , to be avoided by an omission of duty , is now to be enquired into . . we must suppose , ( . ) that the cause of excommunication be clear and evident , both as unto the merit of the fact , and the due application of it unto the person concerned ; so as that no rational indifferent man shall be able to say , that it is meet that such an one should be continued a member of such a society ; as it ought to be , where-ever excommunication is administred . ( . ) that sufficient time and space of repentance , and for giving satisfaction unto the church ( whereof afterwards ) hath been allowed unto the person after admonition . ( . ) that the church doth really suffer in honour and reputation by tolerating such a scandalous offender among them . i answer , on these suppositions i see no just reason to countenance the omission of the execution of this sentence , or to acquit the church from the guilt of sin in so doing . for , . the first presence of danger is vain . there is not the least shadow of jurisdiction in this act of the church . there is nothing in it that toucheth any thing which is under the protection and conservation of humane laws . it reacheth not the persons of men in their lives , or liberties ; nor their estates or the least secular privileges that they do enjoy ; it doth not expose them to the power or censures of others , nor prejudge them as unto office or advantage of life . there is therefore no concernment of the law of the land herein , no more than in a parents disenheriting a rebellious child . . as unto danger of persecution , by the means of the person provoked , i say , ( . ) the same may be pleaded as unto all other duties of obedience unto jesus christ wherewith the world is provoked ; and so the whole profession of the church should give place to the fear of persecution . to testify against sin in the way of christs appointment , is a case of confession . ( . ) the apostles were not deterred by this consideration from the excommunication of simon magus , the seducing jews , hymeneus and alexander , with others . ( . ) the lord christ commandeth and reproveth his churches , according as they were strict in the observation of this duty , or neglective of it , notwithstanding the fear of persecution thereon , revel . . . and , ( . ) he will take that care of his church in all their obedience unto him , as shall turn all the consequents thereof unto their advantage . . as unto danger of differences in the church , there is nothing to be said ; but that if rule , order , love and duty will not prevent such differences , there is no way appointed of christ for that end : and if they are sufficient for it , ( as they are abundantly ) they must bear their own blame who occasion such differences . ii. but it may be said , what if such an offender as justly deserves to be excommunicated , and is under admonition in order thereunto in case of impenitency , should voluntarily withdraw himself from , and leave the communion of the church , is there any necessity to proceed against him by excommunication ? answ. . some say it is enough , if it be declared in the church that such an one hath cut off himself from the church , and is therefore no longer under their watch or care , but is left unto himself and the world. and this is sufficient with them who own no act of office-power or authority in excommunication , but esteem it only a noted cessation of communion , which destroys a principal branch of the power of the keys . wherefore , . where the offence is plain , open , scandalous , persisted in ; where admonition is despised or not complied with , it is the duty of the church to denounce the sentence of excommunication against such a person , notwithstanding his voluntary departure : for , . no man is to make an advantage unto himself , or to be freed from any disadvantage , censure or spiritual penalty , by his own sin ; such as is the voluntary relinquishment of the church , by a person under admonition for scandalous offences . . it is necessary unto the church , both as unto the discharge of its duty , and the vindication of its honour ; as also from the benefit and edification it will receive by those duties of humiliation , mourning and prayer , which are necessary unto the execution of this sentence . . it is necessary for the good and benefit of him who so deserves to be excommunicated . for , ( . ) the end of the institution of the ordinance , is his correction , not his destruction , and may be effectual unto his repentance and recovery . ( . ) it is to be followed with sharp admonition and prayer , which in due time , may reach the most profligate sinner . . it becomes not the wisdom and order of any society entrusted with authority for its own preservation , as the church is by christ himself ; to suffer persons obnoxious unto censure by the fundamental rules of that society , to cast off all respect unto it , to break their order and relation , without animadverting thereon , according to the authority wherewith they are intrusted . to do otherwise is to expose their order unto contempt , and proclaim a diffidence in their own authority , for the spiritual punishment of offenders . . one end of the appointment of the power and sentence of excommunication in the church , is to give testimony unto the future final judgment of christ against impenitent sinners , which none of them can run away from , nor escape . iii. a third enquiry may be , whether in case of any great and scandalous sin , the church may proceed unto excommunication , without any previous admonition . answ. . persons may be falsly accused of , and charged with great sins , the greatest of sins , as well as those of a lesser degree , and that both by particular testimonies and publick reports , as it was with the lord christ himself ; which daily experience confirms . wherefore , all haste and precipitation like that of david in judging the case of mephibosheth , is carefully to be avoided , though they are pressed under the pretences of the greatness and notoriety of the sin. . there is no individual actual sin , but it is capable of great aggravation or alleviation from its circumstances : these the church is to enquire into , and to obtain a full knowledge of them , that all things being duly weighed , they may be affected with the sin in a due manner , or after a goodly sort ; which is essential unto the right administration of this ordinance . . this cannot be done , without personal conference with the offender , who is to be allowed to speak for himself . this conference , in case guilt be discovered , cannot but have in it the nature of an admonition , whereon the church is to proceed , as in case of previous solemn admonition , in the order , and according to the rule which shall be immediately declared . iv. fourthly , whether on the first knowledge of an offence or scandalous sin , if it be known unto the church , that the offending party is penitent , and willing to declare his humiliation and repentance for the satisfaction of the church , may the church proceed unto his excommunication , in case the sin be great and notorious ? answ. . it is certain , that in an orderly progress , as unto more private sins , a compliance by repentance with the first or second admonition , doth put a stop unto all further ecclesiastical proceedure . . but whereas the enquiry is made concerning sins , either in their own nature or in their circumstances , great and of disreputation unto the church : i answer , if repentance be evidenced unto the consciences of the rulers of the church to be sincere , and proportionable unto the offence in its outward demonstration , according unto the rule of the gospel , so as that they are obliged to judge in charity , that the person sinning is pardoned and accepted with christ , as all sincerely penitent sinners are undoubtedly ; the church cannot proceed unto the excommunication of such an offender . for , . it would be publickly to reject them whom they acknowledge that christ doth receive . this nothing can warrant them to do ; yea , so to do is to set up themselves against christ , or at least to make use of his authority against his mind and will. yea , such a sentence would destroy it self ; for it is a declaration that christ doth disapprove them , whom he doth approve . . their so doing would make a misrepresentation of the gospel , and of the lord christ therein . for , whereas the principal design of the gospel , and of the representation that is made therein of christ jesus , is to evidence that all sincerely penitent sinners , that repent according unto the rule of it , are and shall be pardoned and accepted ; by the rejection of such a person in the face of his sincere repentance , there is an open contradiction thereunto . especially it would give an undue sence of the heart , mind , and will of christ towards repenting sinners ; such as may be dangerous unto the faith of believers , so far as the execution of this sentence is doctrinal : for such it is , and declarative of the mind of christ according unto the judgment of the church . the image therefore of this excommunication , which is set up in some churches , wherein the sentence of it is denounced without any regard unto the mind of christ , as unto his acceptance or disapprobation of those whom they excommunicate , is a teacher of lyes . . such a proceedure is contrary unto the nature and end of this sentence . for it is corrective and instructive , not properly punishing and vindictive . the sole end of it , with respect whereunto it hath its efficacy from divine institution , is the humiliation , repentance and recovery of the sinner . and if this be attained before , the infliction of this sentence is contrary to the nature and end of it . it will be said , that it hath another end also ; namely , the preservation of the purity of the church , and the vindication of its honour and reputation , wherein it suffers by the scandalous offences of any of its members . whereunto , i say , ( . ) no church is or can be made impure by them whom christ hath purged ; as he doth all those who are truly penitent . ( . ) it is no dishonour unto any church to have sinners in it , who have evidenced sincere repentance . ( . ) the present offence and scandal may be provided against by an act of rectoral prudence , in causing the offending person to abstain from the lords table for a season . v. it is enquired , ( fifthly ) whether such as voluntarily , causlesly and disorderly , do leave the communion of any church whereof they are members , though not guilty of any scandalous immoralities , ma● and ought to be excommunicated ? answ. . where persons are esteemed members of churches by external causes without their own consent , or by parochial cohabitation , they may remove from one church unto another by the removal of their habitation , according unto their own discretion . for such cohabitation being the only formal cause of any relation to such a church in particular , upon the ceasing of that cause , the relation ceaseth of its own accord . . where persons are members of churches by mutual confederation , or express personal consent , causless departure from them is an evil liable unto many aggrevations . . but whereas the principal end of all particular churches is edification , there may be many just and sufficient reasons why a person may remove himself from the constant communion of one church unto that of another . and of these reasons he himself is judge , on whom it is incumbent to take care of his own edification above all other things . nor ought the church to deny unto any such persons their liberty desired peaceably and according unto order . . it was declared before , that where any persons guilty of , and under admonition for any scandalous sin , do withdraw from the communion of any church , their so doing , is no impediment unto a farther procedure against them . . whereas there are amongst us churches , or those who are so esteemed in the consciences of men , so far differing in principles and practices , as that they have not entire communion with one another in all parts of divine worship , it may be enquired , whether if a man leave a church of one sort to join with one of another ; as suppose he leave a select congregation to join in a parochial church constantly and totally , he may be justly excommunicated for so doing , without the consent of the church whereunto he did belong . answ. . it is certain on the one hand , that if any man leave the communion of parochial assemblies to join himself unto a select congregation , those who have power over those parishes , will make no question whether they shall excommunicate him or no in their way . but , . supposing persons so departing from particular congregations , ( . ) to be free from scandalous sins . ( . ) that they depart quietly without attempting disorder or confusion in the church . ( . ) that they do actually join themselves unto the communion of some church , whose constitution , principles and worship they do approve , whereby their visible profession is preserved ; the church may not justly proceed unto their excommunication : it may suffice to declare , that such persons have on their own accord forsaken the communion of the church , are no more under its watch or care ; neither is the church further obliged towards them , but as unto christian duties in general . . as for those whose departure is as voluntary and causless so accompanied with other evils , such as are revilings , reproaches and false accusations , as is usual in such cases , they may be proceeded against as obstinate offenders . vi. the sixth enquiry is , what time is to be given after solemn admonition before actual excommunication ? answ. . the manner of some to run over the words , i admonish you a first , second , and third time , so immediately to make way for the sentence of excommunication , is that wherein men are greatly to be pitied for their ignorance of the nature of those things which they take on themselves to act , order , and dispose of , that we ascribe it not unto worse and more evil causes . . the nature of the thing it self , requires a considerable season or space of time , between solemn admonition and excommunication . for the end and design of the former is the repentance and recovery of the offender . nor doth its efficacy thereunto depend on , or consist in the actual giving of it ; but as other moral causes which may work gradually , upon occasional advantages . want of light , some present exasperation and temptation , may seem to frustrate a present admonition , when they do but suspend its present efficacy , which it may afterwards obtain on the conscience of the offender . . it being a church admonition that is intended ; it is the duty of the church to abide in prayer and waiting for the fruit of it according to the appointment of christ. and herein the case may possibly require some long time to be spent . . no present appearance of obstinacy or impenitence under admonition , ( which is usually pleaded ) should cause an immediate proceedure unto excommunication . for , ( . ) it is contrary unto the distinct institution of the one , and the other ; wherein the former is to be allowed its proper season for its use and efficacy . ( . ) it doth not represent the patience and forbearance of christ towards his church and all the members of it . ( . ) it is not suited unto the rule of that love which hopeth all things , beareth all things , &c. ( . ) all grounds of hope for the recovery of sinners by repentance , are to be attended unto , so as to deferr the ultimate sentence . nulla unquam de morte hominis cunctatio longa est . . if new sins are added of the same , or any other kind , unto former scandals , whilst persons are under admonition , it is an indication of the necessity of a proceedure . vii . it may be farther enquired , whether a man may be excommunicated for errors in matters of faith , or false opinions about them ? answ. . the case is so plainly and positively stated , rev. . , , , , . tim. . , . tit. . , . and other places , that it needs no farther determination . wherefore , . if the errors intended , are about or against the fundamental truths of the gospel , so as that they that hold them , cannot hold the head , but really make shipwrack of the faith , no pretended usefulness of such persons , no peaceableness as unto outward deportment , which , men guilty of such abominations , will frequently cover themselves withal , can countenance the church in forbearing after due admonition , to cut them off from their communion . the nature of the evil , the danger that is from it unto the whole church , as from a gangrene in any member , unto the body , the indignation of christ expressed against such pernicious doctrines , the opposition of them to the building of the church on the rock , which in most of them is opposed , to render a church altogether inexcusable , who omit their duty herein . . false opinions in lesser things , when the foundation of faith and christian practice are not immediately concerned , may be tolerated in a church , and sundry rules are given unto this end in the scripture , as , rom. . , , , &c. phil. . , . howbeit , in that low ebb of grace , love and prudence , which we are come unto , it is best for edification , that all persons peaceably dispose themselves into those societies with whom they most agree in principles and opinions ; especially such as relate or lead unto practice in any duties of worship . but , . with respect unto such opinions , if men will , as is usual , wrangle and contend to the disturbance of the peace of the church , or hinder it in any duty , with respect unto its own edification , and will neither peaceably abide in the church , nor peaceably depart from it , they may and ought to be proceeded against with censures of the church . viii . whether persons excommunicated out of any church may be admitted unto the hearing of the word in the assemblies of that church ? answ. . they may be so ; as also to be present at all duties of moral worship ; for so many heathens and vnbelievers , cor. . , . . when persons are under this sentence , the church is in a state of expecting of their recovery and return ; and therefore are not to prohibit them any means thereof , such as is preaching of the word . ix . how far extends the rule of the apostle towards persons rejected of the church , cor. . . with such an one no not to eat ; as that also , note that man and have no company with him , that he may be ashamed ? thess. . . . to eat comprizeth all ordinary converse in things of this life ; give us our daily bread. ( . ) to note , is either the act of the church , setting the mark of its censure and disapprobation on him ; or the duty of the members of the church , to take notice of him , as unto the end of not keeping company with him . wherefore , . herein all ordinary converse of choice , not made necessary by previous occasions , is forbidden . the rule , i say , forbids , ( . ) all ordinary converse of choice ; not that which is occasional . ( . ) converse about earthly secular things , not that which is spiritual ; for such an one may , and ought still to be admonished , whilst he will hear the word of admonition . ( . ) it is such converse as is not made previously necessary , by mens mutual engagement in trade and the like . for that is founded on such rules of right and equity , with such obligations in point of truth , as excommunication cannot dissolve . . no suspension of duties antecedently necessary by virtue of natural or moral relation , is allowed or countenanced by this rule . such are those of husband and wife , parents and children , magistrates and subjects , masters and servants , neighbours , relations in propinquity of blood. no duties arising from or belonging unto any of these relations , are released , or the obligation unto them weakned by excommunication . husbands may not hereon forsake their wives if they are excommunicated , nor wives their husbands ; magistrates may not withdraw their protection from any of their subjects ; because they are excommunicate ; much less may subjects withhold their obedience on any pretence of the excommunication of their magistrates , as such . and the same is true as unto all other natural or moral relations . . the ends of this prohibition are , ( . ) to testifie our condemnation of the sin , and disapprobation of the person guilty of it , who is excommunicated . ( . ) the preservation of our selves from all kinds of participation in his sin. ( . ) to make him ashamed of himself , that if he be not utterly profligate and given up unto total apostasie , it may occasion in him thoughts of returning . x. how ought persons excommunicated to be received into the church upon their repentance ? answ. . as unto the internal manner ; with all readiness and chearfulness ; with , ( . ) meekness , to take from them all discouragement and disconsolation , gal. . . ( . ) with compassion , and all means of relief and consolation , cor. . . ( . ) with love in all the demonstrations of it , vers. . ( . ) with joy , to represent the heart of christ towards repenting sinners . . the outward manner of the restauration of such a person consists , in , ( . ) his testification of his repentance unto the satisfaction of the church . ( . ) the express consent of the church unto his reception . ( . ) his renewed ingagement in the covenant of the church , whereby he is re-instated , or jointed again in the body , in his own proper place . in all which the elders , by their authority , are to go before the church . all sorts of persons do now condemn the opinions of the novatians , in refusing the re-admission of lapsed sinners into the church upon repentance . but there may be an evil observed amongst some , leading that way , or unto what is worse : and this is , that they seek not after the recovery of those that are excommunicated , by prayer , admonition , exhortation in a spirit of meekness and tenderness ; but are well satisfied that they have quitted themselves of their society . it is better never to excommunicate any , than so to carry it towards them when they are excommunicated . but there is a sort of men , unto whom if a man be once an offender , he shall be so for ever . xi . our last enquiry shall be , whether excommunication may be regular and valid , where the matter of right is dubious and disputable ? as many such cases may fall out , especially with respect unto the occasions of life , and mutual converse ; or when the matter of fact is not duly proved by positive witnesses , on the one hand , and is denied on the other . answ. . the foundation of the efficacy of excommunication , next and under its divine institution , lies in the light and conviction of the consciences of them that are to be excommunicated . if these are not affected with a sense of guilt , as in dubious cases they may not be , the sentence will be of no force nor efficacy . . a case wherein there is a difference in the judgment of good and wise men about it , is to be esteemed such a dubious case as is exempted from this censure . nothing is to be admitted here to take place , but what is reprovable by natural light , and the concurrent judgment of them that fear god. . if the case be about such a right or wrong , in pretended fraud , over-reaching , or the like , as is determinable by civil-laws , the church is no judge in such cases ; unless it be by way of arbitration , cor. . . if the question be about doctrines that are not in points fundamental , so as those who dissent from the church do carry it peaceably and orderly , there can be no proceedure unto ecclesiastical censures : but if men will do at on their own opinions , wrangling , contending , and breaking the peace of the church about them , there are other rules given in that case . . if the matter of fact be to be determined and stated by witness , it is absolutely necessary by virtue of divine institution , that there be two or three concurrent testimonies ; one witness is not to be regarded . see deut. . . numb . . . matth. . , &c. wherefore the ensuing rules or directions are to be observed in the matter of excommunication . . no excommunication is to be allowed in cases dubious and disputable , wherein right and wrong are not easily determinable unto all unprejudiced persons , that know the will of god in such things . nor is it to be admitted when the matter of fact stands in need of testimony , and is not proved by two witnesses at the least . . all prejudices , all partiality , all provocations , all haste and precipitation , are most carefully to be avoided in this administration ; for the judgment is the lords . wherefore , . we are continually , in all things that tend unto this sentence , and eminently in the sentence it self , to charge our consciences with the mind of christ , and what he would do himself in the case ; considering his love , grace , mercy and patience ; with instances of his condescension which he gave us in this world. . there is also required of us herein , a constant remembrance , that we also are in the flesh , and liable to temptation , which may restrain and keep in awe that forwardness and confidence which some are apt to manifest in such cases . in all these things , a watchful eye is to be kept over the methods of satan ; who by all means seeks to pervert this ordinance unto the destruction of men , which is appointed for their edification ; and too often prevails in that design . and if by the negligence of a church in the management and pursuit of this ordinance , he gets advantage to pervert it , unto the ruine of any , it is the fault of that church , in that they have not been careful of the honour of christ , therein . wherefore , . as excommunication by a cursed noise and clamor with bell , book and candle ( such as we have instances of in some papal councils ) is an horrible anti-christian abomination . so , . it is an undue representation of christ and his authority , for persons openly guilty of profaneness in sinning , to excommunicate them who are blameless in all christian obedience . . all excommunication is evangelically null where there is wanting an evangelical frame of spirit in those by whom it is administred ; and there is present an anti-evangelical order in its administration . . it is sufficiently evident , that after all the contests and disputes about this excommunication that have been in the world , the noise that it hath made , the horrible abuses that it hath been put unto , the wresting of all church-order and rule to give countenance unto a corrupt administration of it , with the needless oppositions that have been made against its institution ; there is nothing in it , nothing belongs unto it , nothing required unto its administration , wherein mens outward interests are at all concerned , and which the smallest number of sincere christians in any church-society , may not perform and discharge unto the glory of christ , and their own edification . it is the mystery of iniquity that hath traversed these things into such a state and posture , as is unintelligible unto spiritual wisdom , unpracticable in the obedience of faith , and ruinous unto all evangelical order and discipline . chap. xi . of the communion of churches . churches so appointed , and established in order as hath been declared , ought to hold communion among themselves , or with each other , as unto all the ends of their institution and order : for these are the same in all . yea , the general end of them , is in order of nature considered antecedently unto their institution in particular . this end is the edification of the body of christ in general , or the church catholick . the promotion hereof is committed jointly and severally unto all particular churches . wherefore , with respect hereunto , they are obliged unto mutual communion among themselves , which is their consent , endeavour and conjunction in and for the promotion of the edification of the catholick church , and therin their own , as they are parts and members of it . this communion is incumbent on every church , with respect unto all other churches of christ in the world equally . and the duties and acts of it in all of them , are of the same kind and nature . for there is no such disparity between them , or subordination among them , as should make a difference between the acts of their mutual communion ; so as that the acts of some should be acts of authority , and those of others acts of obedience or subjection . where ever there is a church , whether it be at rome or egubium , in a city or a village , the communion of them all is mutual , the acts of it of the same kind ; however one church may have more advantages to be useful and helpful therein than another . and the abuse of those advantages was that which wrought effectually in the beginning of that disorder , which at length destroyed the catholick church , with all church-communion whatever . for some churches , especially that of rome , having many advantages , in gifts , abilities , numbers and reputation above many , above most churches for usefulness in their mutual communion ; the guides of it insensibly turned and perverted the addresses made unto them , the advises and assistances desired of them in way of communion , or their pretences of such addresses and desires , into an usurpation , first of a primacy of honour , then of order , then of supremacy and jurisdiction , unto the utter overthrow of all church-order and communion , and at length of the whole nature of the catholick church , as stated and subsisting in particular churches , as we shall see . all churches on their first institution , quickly found themselves indigent and wanting , though not as unto their being , power and order ; yet as unto their well-being , with their preservation in truth and order , upon extraordinary occurrences , as also with respect unto their usefulness and serviceableness , unto the general end of furthering the edification of the church catholick . the care hereof , and the making provision for this defect , was committed by our lord jesus christ unto the apostles during their lives , which paul calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cor. . . the care of all the churches . for what was only a pressing care and burden unto them , was afterward contended for by others , as a matter of dignity and power ; the pretence of it in one especially being , turned into a cursed domination , under the stile and title of servus servorum dei. but if a thousand pretences should be made of supplying churches defects after the decease of the apostles , by any other order , way or means , besides this of the equal communion of churches among themselves , they will be all found destitute of any countenance from the scripture , primitive antiquity , the nature , use , and end of churches , yea , of christian religion it self . yet the pretence hereof is the sole foundation of all that disposal of churches into several stories of subordination , with an authority and jurisdiction over one another , which now prevails in the world. but there is no place for such imaginations , until it be proved , either that our lord jesus christ hath not appointed the mutual communion of churches among themselves by their own consent ; or that it is not sufficient for the preservation of the vnion , and furtherance of the edification of the church catholick , whereunto it is designed . wherefore , our lord jesus christ , in his infinite wisdom , hath constituted his churches in such a state and order , as wherein none of them are able of themselves , always and in all instances , to attain all the ends for which they are appointed , with respect unto the edification of the church catholick . and he did it for this end , that whereas the whole catholick church is animated by one spirit , which is the bond of union between all particular churches , ( as we shall see ) every one of them may act the gifts and graces of it unto the preservation and edification of the whole . herein then , we acknowledge , lieth the great difference which we have with others about the state of the church of christ in this world ; we do believe that the mutual communion of particular churches amongst themselves , in an equality of power and order , though not of gifts and usefulness , is the only way appointed by our lord jesus christ after the death of the apostles , for the attaining the general end of all particular churches , which is the edification of the church catholick , in faith , love and peace . other ways and means have been found out in the world for this end , which we must speak unto immediately . wherefore , it behoveth us to use some diligence in the consideration of the causes , nature and vse of this communion of churches . but it must be moreover premised , that whereas this communion of churches is radically and essentially the same among all churches in the world , yet , as unto the ordinary actual exercise of the duties of it , it is confined and limited by divine providence , unto such churches , as the natural means of the discharge of such duties may extend unto . that is unto those which are planted within such lines of communication , such precincts or boundaries of places and countries , as may not render the mutual performance of such duties insuperably difficult . yet is not the world it self so wide , but that all places being made pervious by navigation , this communion of churches may be visibly professed , and in some instances practised among all churches , from the rising of the sun even unto the going-down of the same , where the name of christ is known among the gentiles ; wherein the true nature of the catholick church and its union doth consist , which is utterly overthrown by the most vehement pretences that are made unto it , as those in the church of rome . wherefore such a communion of churches is to be enquired after , as from which no true church of christ is or can be excluded ; in whose actual exercise they may and ought all to live , and whereby the general end of all churches in the edification of the catholick church may be attained . this is the true and only catholicism of the church , which whoever departs from , or substitutes any thing else in the room of it , under that name , destroys its whole nature , and disturbs the whole ecclesiastical harmony , that is , of christs institution . however therefore we plead for the rights of particular churches , yet our real controversy with most in the world , is for the being , union and communion of the church catholick , which are variously perverted by many , and separating it into parties , and confining it to rules , measures and canons of their own finding out and establishment . for such things as these , belong neither to the internal nor external form of that catholick church , whose being in the world we believe , and whose vnion we are obliged to preserve . and whoever gives any description of , or limitation to the catholick church , besides what consist in the communion of particular churches intended , doth utterly overthrow it , and therein an article of our faith. but this communion of churches cannot be duly apprehended , unless we enquire and determine wherein their vnion doth consist . for communion is an act of vnion , that receives both its nature and power from it , or by virtue of it . for of what nature soever the vnion of things distinct in themselves be , of the same is the communion that they have among themselves . in the church of rome , the person of the pope , as he is pope , is the head and center of all church union . nor is there allowed any vnion of particular churches with christ or among themselves , but in and through him . an universal subjection unto him and his authority , is the original spring of all church vnion among them . and if any one soul fail herein , if as unto things of faith and divine worship , he do not depend on the pope , and live in subjection unto him , he is reputed a stranger and for●●●ner unto the catholick church . yea , they affirm , that be a man never so willing for , and desirous of an interest in christ , he cannot have it but by the pope . the communion of churches congenial and suited unto this union , proceeding from it , and exercised by virtue of it , ariseth from a various contignation of order , or the erection of one story of church interest upon another , until we come to the idol placed on the top of this babel . so is this communion carried on from the obedience and subjection of the lowest rubbish of ecclesiastical order , unto diocesans , of them to metropolitans , of them to patriarchs or cardinals , of them to the pope ; or an ascent is made from diocesan synods , by provincial and national , to those that are called oecumenical , whose head is the pope . yet two things must be farther observed to clear this communion of the roman catholick church ; as , ( . ) that there is no ascent of church-order or power by a vital act of communion from the lower degrees , orders or consociations , and by them to the pope , as though he should receive any thing of church-power from them ; but all the plenitude of it being originally vested in him , by these several orders and degrees , he communicates of it unto all churches , as the life of their conjunction and communion . ( . ) that no man is so jointed in this order , so compacted in this body , but that he is also personally and immediately subject to the pope , and depends on him as unto his whole profession of religion . and this is that which constitutes him formally to be what he is , that is antichrist ; and the church-state arising from its union unto him , holding him as its head , subsisting in a communion by virtue of power received through various orders and constitutions from him , to be anti-christian . for he and it , are set up in the room of , and in direct opposition unto the lord christ , as the head of the catholick church , and the church state thereon depending . this we have described , ephes. . , . speaking the truth in love , may grow up , &c. as also , col. . . where there is a rejection of them who belong not unto the church catholick , taken from its relation unto christ , and the nature of its dependance on him ; not holding the head , &c. when men shall cease to be wilfully blind , or when the powers of the strong delusion that begin to abate shall expire , they will easily see the direct opposition that is between these two heads and two churches , namely christ and the pope , the catholick church and that of rome . i know well enough all the evasions and distinctions that are invented to countenance this anti-christianism . as that there is a double head , one of internal influence of grace which christ is , and the pope is not ; the other of rule and authority , which the pope is . but this also is two-fold ; supream and remote ; or immediate and subordinate ; the first is christ , the latter is the pope . and there is yet farther a two-fold head of the church , the one invisible which is christ ; the other visible which is the pope . not to insist on these gross and horrible figments of a twofold head of the catholick church in any sence , which are foreign to the scripture , foreign to antiquity , whereof never one word was heard in the church for six hundred years after christ , deforming the beautiful spouse of christ into a monster ; we will allow at present , that the pope is only the immediate , visible , subordinate head of all rule and authority to their church , which is what they plead for . then i say that the church whereof he is the head is his body ; that it holds him as its head ; that it is compacted together by the officers and orders that depend on him , and receive all their influence of church-power and order from him , which though he communicates not by an internal influence of grace and gifts ( alas poor wretch ) yet he doth it by officers , offices , orders and laws ; so giving union and communion unto the whole body by the effectual working of every joint and part of the hierarchy under him , for its union , communion and edification . this , i say , is the anti-christ , and the anti-christian church-state , as i shall be at any time ready to maintain . let any man take a due prospect of this head , and this body as related and united by the bond of their own rules , constitutions and laws , acting in worldly pomp , splendor and power with horrid bloody cruelties against all that oppose it , and he will not fail of an open view of all the scriptural lineaments of the apostate anti-christian state of the church . i say again , this assigning of the original of all church order , union and communion unto the pope of rome , investing him therewith as an article of faith , constituting him thereby the head of the church ; and the church thereon his body , as it must be if he be its head ; so as that from him all power of order , and for all acts of communion , should be derived , returning all in obedience and subjection unto him , doth set up a visible , conspicuous anti-christian church state , in opposition unto christ and the catholick church . but with this sort of men we deal not at present . there is a pretence unto an ●nion of churches not derived from the papal headship . and this consists in the canonical subjection of particular churches unto a diocesan bishop ; and of such bishops to metropolitans ; which though de facto it be at present terminated and stated within the bounds of a nation ; yet de jure it ought to be extended unto the whole catholick church . according unto this principle , the vnion of the catholick church consists in that order , whereby particular churches are distributed into deanaries , arch-deaconries , exempt peculiars , under officials ; diocesses , provinces , under metropolitans , and so by or without patriarchs to avoid the rock of the papacy , issuing in a general-council , as i suppose . but , . to confine the vnion and communion of the catholick church hereunto , is at present absolutely destructive both of the church and its communion . for all particular churches , when they are by a coalescency extended unto those , which are provincial or national , have both politically and ecclesiastically such bounds fixed unto them , as they cannot pass to carry on communion unto , and with the church as catholick , by any acts and duties belonging unto their order : and hereby the union and communion of the church is utterly lost . for the union of the catholick church , as such , doth always equally exist , and the communion of it is always equally in exercise , and can consist in nothing but what doth so exist and is so exercised . where-ever is the catholick church , there is the communion of saints . but nothing of this can be obtained by virtue of this order . . we enquire at present after such an vnion as gives particular churches communion among themselves ; which this order doth not , but absolutely overthrows it ; leaving nothing unto them but subjection to officers set over them , who are not of them , according to rules and laws of their appointment ; which is foreign to the scripture and antiquity . . this order it self , the only bond of the pretended union having no divine institution , especially as to its extent unto the whole catholick church , nor any intimation in the scripture , and being utterly impossible to be put in execution or actual exercise , no man can declare what is the original or center of it , whence it is deduced , and wherein it rests . having removed these pretences out of our way , we may easily discern wherein the vnion , and consequently the communion of ●ll particular churches doth consist , and in the due observation whereof , all that church-order which the lord christ hath appointed and doth accept , is preserved . i say then , that the true and only vnion of all particular churches , consists in that which gives form , life and being unto the church catholick , with the addition of what belongs unto them as they are particular . and this is , that they have all one and the same god and father , one lord jesus christ , one faith and one doctrine of faith , one hope of their calling or the promised inheritance , one regeneration , one baptism , one bread and wine ; united unto god and christ in one spirit , through the bond of faith and love. this description , with what is suited thereunto , and explanatory of it , is all the account which is given us in the scripture of the constituting form of the catholick church , and of the vnion of particular churches among themselves . what church soever fails in the essential parts of this description , or any of them , it is separated from the catholick church , nor hath either union or communion with any true churches of christ. two things concurr unto the compleating of this vnion of churches . ( . ) their vnion or relation unto christ. ( . ) that which they have among themselves . . the lord christ himself is the original and spring of this vnion , and every particular church is united unto him as its head , besides which , with or under which , it hath none . this relation of the church unto christ as its head , the apostle expresly affirms to be the foundation and cause of its union , ephes. . , . col. . . the places before quoted . hereby it is also in god the father , thes. . . or hath god as its father . and unless this union be dissolved , unless a church be disunited from christ , it cannot be so from the catholick church , nor any true church of christ in particular ; however , it may be dealt withal by others in the world. from christ , as the head and spring of union , there proceedeth unto all particular churches , a bond of vnion , which is his holy spirit , acting it self in them by faith and love , in and by the ways and means , and for the ends of his appointment . this is the kingly , royal , beautiful vnion of the church . christ , as the only head of influence and rule bringing it into a relation unto himself as his body , communicating of his spirit unto it , governing it by the law of his word , enabling it unto all the duties of faith , love and holiness . for unto the compleating of this vnion on the part of the church , these things are required . ( . ) faith in him , or holding him as the head , in the sincere belief of all things concerning his person , office and doctrine in the gospel , with whatever belongs thereunto . ( . ) love unto him and all that is his . ( . ) that especial holiness , whose foundation is repentance and effectual vocation . ( . ) the observance of his commands , as unto all duties of divine worship . these things are essentially requisite unto this union on the part of the church . the reality and power of them , is the internal form of the church ; and the profession of them is its external form . . there concurreth hereunto an vnion among themselves , i mean all particular churches throughout the world , in whom the church catholick doth act its power and duty , and the relation that is between these churches , is that which is termed relatio aequiparentiae , wherein neither of the relata is the first foundation of it ; but they are equal . it doth not arise from the subordination of one unto another , they being all equal as unto what concerns their essence and power . and the bond hereof is that especial love which christ requireth among all his disciples , acting it self unto all the ends of the edification of the whole body . take in the whole , and the union of churches consists in their relation unto god as their father , and unto christ as their only immediate head of influence and rule , with a participation of the same spirit , in the same faith and doctrine of truth , the same kind of holiness , the same duties of divine worship , especially the same mysteries of baptism and the supper , the observance of the same rules or commands of christ in all church-order , with mutual love , effectual unto all the ends of their being and constitution , or the edification of the church catholick . there may be failures in them or some of them , as unto sundry of these things ; there may be differences among them about them , arising from the infirmities , ignorance and prejudices of them of whom they do consist , the best knowing here but in part ; but whilst the substance of them is preserved , the union of all churches , and so of the catholick church is preserved . this is that blessed oneness which the lord christ prayed for so earnestly for his disciples , that they might be one in the father and the son , one among themselves , and made perfect in one , joh. . , , , . without any respect unto that horrid image of it , which was set up in the latter days of the church , which all men were compelled to bow down unto , and worship , with the fire of nebuchadnezzars furnance . of any other union there is not the least mention in the scripture . this union of the catholick church in all particular churches , is always the same , inviolable , unchangeable , comprehending all the churches in the world at all times ; not confinable unto any state or party , not interruptible by any external form , nor to be prevailed against by the gates of hell ; and all such disputes about a catholick church , and its vnion , as can be so much as questionable among them that profess to believe the gospel , are in direct opposition unto the prayers and promises of jesus christ. whilst evangelical faith , holiness , obedience unto the commands of christ , and mutual love abide in any on the earth , there is the catholick church ; and whilst they are professed , that catholick church is visible ; other catholick church upon the earth i believe none ; nor any that needs other things unto its constitution . these things being premised , i proceed unto that which is our present enquiry , namely , wherein the communion of particular churches among themselves doth consist . the communion of churches , is their joint actings in the same gospel duties towards god in christ , with their mutual actings towards each other , with respect unto the end of their institution and being , which is the glory of christ in the edification of the whole catholick church . as unto the actings of the first sort , the ground of them is faith , and therein is the first act of the communion of churches . and this communion in faith among all the churches of christ is two-fold . ( . ) general in the belief of the same doctrine of truth , which is according unto godliness , the same articles of faith , and the publick profession thereof ; so that every one of them is the ground and pillar of the same truth . this the primitive church provided for in creeds and symbols , or confessions of faith , as is known . but as never any one of them was expresly owned by all churches ; so in process of time they came to be abused , as expressing the sence of the present church , whether true or false . hence we have as many arian creeds yet extant , as those that are orthodox . but unto the communion of all particular churches in the world , there is nothing required but a belief of the scripture to be the word of god , with a professed assent unto all divine revelations therein contained ; provided that no error be avowed that is contrary to the principal or fundamental doctrines of it . for although any society of men should profess the scripture to be the word of god , and avow an assent unto the revelations made therein , yet by the conceptions of their minds , and misunderstanding of the sence of the holy spirit therein , they may embrace and adhere unto such errors , as may cut them off from all communion with the catholick church in faith. such are the denial of the holy trinity , the incarnation of the son of god , his divine person or office , the redemption of the church by his blood ; the necessity of regeneration by his spirit , and the like . and they may also add that of their own unto their professed belief , as shall exclude them from communion with the catholick church . such are the assertion of traditions as equal with the written word ; of another head of the church besides the lord christ ; of another sacrifice besides what he once offered for all ; and the like . but where any are preserved from such heresies on the one hand and the other , there is no more required unto communion with the whole church , as unto faith in general , but only the belief before described . . this communion in faith respects the church it self as its material object . for it is required hereunto , that we believe that the lord christ hath had in all ages , and especially hath in that wherein we live , a church on the earth , confined unto no places nor parties of men , no empires nor dominions , or capable of any confinement ; as also that this church is redeemed , called , sanctified by him ; that it is his kingdom , his interest , his concernment in the world ; that thereunto , and all the members of it , all the promises of god do belong and are confined ; that this church he will save , preserve and deliver from all oppositions , so as that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it ; and after death will raise it up and glorify it at the last day . this is the faith of the catholick church concerning it self ; which is an ancient fundamental article of our religion . and if any one deny that there is such a church called out of the world , separated from it , unto which alone , and all the members of it , all the promises of god do appertain , in contradistinction unto all others , or confines it unto a party , unto whom these things are not appropriate , he cuts himself off from the communion of the church of christ. in the faith hereof , all the true churches of christ throughout the world , have a comforting refreshing communion , which , is the spring of many duties in them continually . . this communion of churches in faith , consists much in the principal fruit of it ; namely , prayer . so is it stated , ephes. . . for through christ we have an access by one spirit unto the father . and that therein the communion of the catholick church doth consist , the apostle declares in the following verses ; , , , . now therefore , &c. for prayer in all churches having one object , which is god even the father , god as the father , proceeding in all from one and the same spirit , given unto them as a spirit of grace and supplications to make intercession for them , and all of them continually offered unto god by the same high-priest ▪ who adds unto it the incense of his own intercession , and by whom they have all an access unto the same throne of grace , they have all a blessed communion herein continually . and this communion is the more express in that the prayers of all are for all ; so as that there is no particular church of christ in the world , not any one member of any of them , but they have the prayers of all the churches in the world , and of all the members of them every day . and however this communion be invisible unto the eyes of flesh , yet is it glorious and conspicuous unto the eye of faith ; and is a part of the glory of christ the mediatour in heaven . this prayer proceeding from , or wrought by one and the same spirit in them all , equally bestowed on them all , by virtue of the promise of christ ; having the same object , even god as a father , and offered unto him by the same high-priest , together with his own intercession , gives unto all churches a communion , far more glorious than what consists in some outward rites and orders of mens devising . but now if there be any other persons or churches , who have any other object of their prayers , but god even the father , and as our father in christ ; or have any other mediators or intercessors , by whom to convey or present their prayers unto god , but christ alone , the only high-priest of the church ; or do renounce the aid and assistance of the holy spirit , as a spirit of grace and supplications , they cut themselves off from all communion with the catholick church herein . . the vnity of faith in all churches , affecteth communion among them , in the administration of the same sacraments of baptism and the supper of the lord. these are the same in , unto , and amongst them all . neither do some , variations in the outward manner of their administration , interrupt that communion . but , where-ever the continuation of these ordinances is denied , or their nature or use is perverted , or idolatrous worship is annexed unto their administration , there communion with the catholick church is renounced . . they have also by faith communion herein , in that all churches do profess a subjection unto the authority of christ in all things , and an obligation upon them to do and observe all whatsoever he hath commanded . other instances of the like nature might be given ; but these are sufficient to manifest how unscriptural the notion is , that there is no proper communion with or among churches but what consists in a compliance with certain powers , orders and rites , the pressing whereof under the name of vniformity , hath cast all thoughts of real , evangelical church communion into oblivion . secondly , churches ordained and constituted in the way and manner , and for the ends declared in our former discourse on this subject , and by virtue of their union unto christ and among themselves , living constantly in all places of the world in the actual exercise of that communion , which consists in the performance of the same church-duties towards god in christ , unto their own continuation , encrease , and edification , have also an especial vnion among themselves , and a mutual communion thence arising . the bond of this vnion is love ; not the common regulated affection of humane nature so called ; not meerly that power and duty which is engraven on the hearts of men , by the law of creation , towards all of the same kind and blood with themselves ; but an especial grace of the holy spirit , acting in the church as the principle and bond of its union unto its self ; whence the command of it is called a new commandment ; because in it self , as unto the only example of it in the person of christ , the causes and motives unto it , with its peculiar ends and proper exercise , it was absolutely new and evangelical . an explanation of the nature of it belongs not unto this place although it be a grace and a duty of so much importance , wherein so much of the life , power and peculiar glory of christian religion doth consist , and is either so utterly lost , or hath such vile images of it set up in the world , that it deserves a full consideration ; which it may receive in another place . i say the holy spirit of grace and love , being given from christ , the fountain and center of all church-union , to dwell in , and abide with his church , thereby uniting it unto himself , doth work in it , and all the members of it , that mutual love , which may , and doth animate them unto all those mutual acts which are proper unto the relation wherein they stand , by virtue of their union unto christ their head , as members of the same body one with another . herein consists the union of every church in it self , of all churches among themselves , and so of the whole catholick church ; their communion consisting in regular acts and duties , proceeding from this love , and required by virtue of it . this account of the vnion and communion of churches may seem strange unto some , who are enamoured on that image which is set up of them in the world , in canons , constitutions of rites , and outward order in various subordinations and ceremonies , which are most remote from making any due representation of them . the church , in its dependance on christ its head , being by his institution disposed unto its proper order for its own edification , or fitly joined together and compacted , this love working effectually in every office , officer and member , according as unto its disposal in the body , for the receiving and communicating supplies for edification , gives the whole both its vnion and communion , all the actings of it being regulated by divine rule and prescription . instead hereof to erect a machine , the spring and center of whose motions are unknown , any other , i mean , but external force compacted by the iron joints and bands of humane laws , edifying it self by the power of offices and officers , foreign unto the scripture , acting with weapons that are not spiritual , but carnal , and mighty through him whose work it is to cast the members of the church of christ into prison , as unto an outward conformity , is to forsake the scripture and follow our own imagination . the outward acts of communion among churches , proceeding from this love , and the obligation that is on them to promote their mutual edification , may be referred unto the two heads of advice and assistance . churches have communion unto their mutual edification , by advice in synods or councils , which must in this place be considered . synods are the meetings of divers churches by their messengers or delegates , to consult and determine of such things as are of common concernment unto them all , by virtue of this communion which is exercised in them . . the necessity and warranty of such synods , ariseth , ( . ) from the light of nature . for all societies which have the same original , the same rule , the same interest , the same ends , and which are in themselves mutually concerned in the good or evil of each other , are obliged by the power and conduct of reason , to advise in common for their own good , on all emergencies that stand in need thereof . churches are such societies ; they have all one and the same authoritative institution , one and the same rule of order and worship , the same ends as we have declared ; and their entire interest is one and the same . when therefore any thing occurs amongst them , that is attended with such difficulties as cannot be removed or taken away by any one of them severally , or in whose determination all of them are equally concerned , not to make use herein of common advice and counsel , is to forsake that natural light which they are bound to attend unto in all duties of obedience unto god. . the vnion of all churches , before described in one head , by one spirit , through one faith and worship , unto the same ends , doth so compact them into one body mystical , as that none of them is or can be compleat absolutely without a joint acting with other members of the same body unto the common good of the whole , as occasion doth require . and this joint acting with others in any church , can be no otherwise , but by common advice and counsel , which natural circumstances render impossible by any means but their convention in synods , by their messengers and delegates . for although there may be some use of letters missive , and was so eminently in the primitive churches , to ask the advice of one another in difficult cases , ( as the first instance we have of the communion of churches after the days of the apostles , is in the letter of the church of corinth unto that of rome , desiring their advice about the composing of a difference among them , and the answer of the church of rome thereunto ; ) yet many cases may fall out among them , which cannot be reconciled or determined but by present conference , such as that was recorded , act. . no church therefore is so independent , as that it can always , and in all cases , observe the duties it owes unto the lord christ and the church catholick , by all those powers which it is able to act in it self distinctly , without conjunction with others . and the church that confines its duty unto the acts of its own assemblies , cuts it self off from the external communion of the church catholick ; nor will it be safe for any man to commit the conduct of his soul to such a church . wherefore , . this acting in synods is an institution of jesus christ ; not in an express command , but in the nature of the thing it self fortified with apostolical example . for having erected such a church-state , and disposed all his churches into that order and mutual relation unto one another , as that none of them can be compleat , or discharge their whole duty without mutual advice and counsel ; he hath thereby ordained this way of their communion in synods , no other being possible unto that end . and hereby such conventions are interested in the promise of his presence ; namely , that where two or three are gathered together in his name , there he will be in the midst of them . for these assemblies being the necessary effect of his own constitution in the nature and use of his churches , are or may be in his name , and so enjoy his presence . . the end of all particular churches is the edification of the church catholick unto the glory of god in christ. and it is evident , that in many instances this cannot be attained , yea , that it must be sinfully neglected , unless this way for the preservation and carrying of it on be attended unto . truth , peace and love may be lost among churches , and so the vnion of the catholick church in them be dissolved , unless this means for their preservation and reparation be made use of . and that particular church which extends not its duty beyond its own assemblies and members , is fallen off from the principal end of its institution . and every principle , opinion , or perswasion , that inclines any church to confine its care and duty unto its own edification only ; yea , or of those only which agree with it in some peculiar practice , making it neglective of all due means of the edification of the church catholick , is schismatical . . there is direction hereunto included in the order and method of church-proceedings in case of offence , prescribed unto it by christ himself . the beginning and rise of it , is between two individual persons ; thence is it carried unto the cognizance and judgment of two or three others before unconcerned ; from them it is to be brought unto the church ; and there is no doubt but the church hath power to determine concerning it , as unto its own communion , to continue the offender in it or reject him from it . this must abide , as unto outward order and the preservation of peace . but no church is infallible in their judgment absolutely in any case ; and in many , their determinations may be so doubtful as not to affect the conscience of him who is censured . but such a person is not only a member of that particular church , but by virtue thereof of the catholick church also . it is necessary therefore that he should be heard and judged as unto his interest therein , if he do desire it . and this can no way be done , but by such synods as we shall immediately describe . . synods are consecrated unto the use of the church in all ages , by the example of the apostles , in their guidance of the first churches of jews and gentiles ; which hath the force of a divine institution , as being given by them under the infallible conduct of the holy ghost , act. . which we shall speak farther unto immediately . having seen the original of church synods or their formal cause , we consider also their material cause , or the subject matter to be treated of or determined in them . and this in general is every thing wherein churches are obliged to hold communion among themselves , when any thing falls out amongst them , which otherwise would disturb that communion . and hereof some instances may be given . . churches have mutual communion in the profession of the same faith. if any doubts or differences do arise about it , any opinions be advanced contrary unto it , either in any particular church , which they cannot determine among themselves or among sundry churches , the last outward means for the preservation of the rule of faith among them , and of their communion in the condemnation of errors and opinions contrary unto the form of wholesome words , is by these synods or councils . the care hereof , is indeed in the first place committed unto the churches themselves , as was at large before declared : but in case through the subtilty , prevalency , and interest of those by whom damnable doctrines are broached , the church it self whereunto they do belong , is not able to rebuke and suppress them ; nor to maintain its profession of the truth , or that by suffering such things in one church , others are in danger to be infected or defiled , this is the last external refuge that is left for the preservation of the communion of churches in the same faith. we have multiplied examples hereof in the primitive churches , before the degeneracy of these synods into superstition and domination . such was eminently that gathered at antioch for the condemnation of the heresies of paulus samosatenus the bishop of that church . . it is so , with respect unto that order , peace and vnity , wherein every particular church ought to walk in it self , and amongst its own members . there were schisms , divisions , strife and contentions in some of the churches that were of apostolical planting and watering : so there was at antioch , and afterwards at corinth , as also of some of the churches in galatia . the duty of remedying and healing these divisions and differences from what cause soever they arise , is first incumbent on each particular member in every such church . unto them it is given in charge by the apostle in the first place ; and if every one of them do perform their duty in love , an end will be put unto all strife . in case of failure therein , the whole church is charged in the exercise of its power , authority and wisdom , to rebuke and compose such differences . but in case it is not able so to do , as it fell out in the church at antioch , then an assembly of other churches walking in actual communion with that church wherein the difference is arisen , and thereon concerned in their prosperity and edification , by their messengers and delegates , is the last outward means for its composure . . where there hath been any male administration of discipline , whereby any members of a church have been injured , as suppose they are unduly cast out of the church by the power and interest of some diotrephes ; or that any members of the church make a party and faction to depose their elders , as it was in the church of corinth , when the church at rome gave them advice in the case : it is necessary from the communion of churches and the interest the persons injured have in the catholick church , whose edification is the end of all church-administrations , that the proceedings of such a church be renewed by a synod , and a remedy provided in the case . nor was it the mind of the apostle that they should be left without relief , which were unduly cast out of the church by diotrephes ; nor is there any other ordinary way hereof , but only by synods ; but this case i suppose i shall speak unto afterwards . . the same is the case with respect unto worship , as also of manners and conversation . if it be reported or known by credible testimony that any church hath admitted into the exercise of divine worship any thing superstitious or vain , or if the members of it walk like those described by the apostle , phil. . , . unto the dishonour of the gospel and of the ways of christ , the church it self not endeavouring its own reformation and repentance ; other churches walking in communion therewith , by virtue of their common interest in the glory of christ , and honour of the gospel , after more private ways for its reduction , as opportunity and duty may suggest unto their elders , ought to assemble in a synod for advice , either as to the use of farther means for the recovery of such a church , or to with-hold communion from it in case of obstinacy in its evil ways . the want of a due attendance unto this part of the communion of churches , with respect unto gospel worship in its purity , and gospel obedience in its power , was a great means of the decay and apostacy of them all . by reason of this negligence instead of being helpful one to another for their mutual recovery , and the revival of the things that were ready to die , they gradually infected one another , according as they fell into their decays , and countenanced one another by their examples unto a continuance in such disorders . the image which in late ages was set up hereof in diocesan and metropolitical visitations , and those of lesser districts under officers of anti-christian names , hath been useful rather unto destruction than edification . but so it hath fallen out in most things concerning church-order , worship and discipline . the power and spirituality of divine institutions being lost , a machine hath been framed to make an appearance and representation of them to divert the minds of men from enquiring after the primitive institution of christ , with an experience of their efficacy . considering what we have learned in these later ages , by woeful experience of what hath fallen out formerly amongst all the churches in the world , as unto their degeneracy from gospel worship and holiness , with the abounding of temptations in the days wherein we live , and the spiritual decays that all churches are prone unto , it were not amiss if those churches which do walk in express communion , would frequently meet in synods to enquire into the spiritual state of them all , and to give advice for the correction of what is amiss , the due preservation of the purity of worship , the exercise of discipline , but especially of the power , demonstration and fruit of evangelical obedience . . hence it is evident what are the ends of such synods among the churches of christ. the general end of them all , is to promote the edification of the whole body or church catholick . and that , ( . ) to prevent divisions from differences in iudgment and practice which are contrary thereunto . the first christian synod was an assembly of the two first churches in the world by their delegates . the first church of the jews was at jerusalem , and the first church of the gentiles was at antioch ; to prevent divisions , and to preserve communion between them , was the first synod celebrated , act. . ( . ) to avoid or cure offences against mutual love among them . ( . ) to advance the light of the gospel by a joint confession and agreement in the faith. ( . ) to give a concurrent testimony against pernicious heresies or errors , whereby the faith of any is overthrown or in danger so to be . ( . ) to relieve such by advice , as may be by any diotrephes unduly cast out of the church . what are the ends whereunto they have been used , may be seen in the volumes written concerning them , and the numberless laws enacted in them , whereof very little belongs unto the discipline of the gospel , or real communion of churches . . the measure or extent of them ariseth from concernment and convenience . all unprejudiced persons do now acknowledge , that the pretence of oecumenical councils , wherein the whole church of christ on the earth , or all particular churches should be represented , and so obliged to acquiesce in their determinations , is a fond imagination . and it were easie to demonstrate in particular , how every one of them which hath in vulgar esteem obtained that title , were openly remote from so being . such councils never were , and , as it is improbable , never will nor can be , nor are any way needful unto the edification of the church . their due measure and bounds , as was said before , are given them by concernment and convenience ; wherein respect also may be had unto the ability of some churches to promote edification above others . such churches as are in the same instances concerned in the causes of them before declared , and may be helpful unto the ends mentioned , are to convene in such synods . and this concernment may be either from some of those causes in themselves , or from that duty which they owe unto other churches which are immediately concerned . so it was in the assistance given by the church at jerusalem , in that case which was peculiar to the church of antioch . with this interest or concernment , there must be a concurrence of natural , moral and political conveniences . some churches are planted at such distances from others , that it is naturally impossible that they should ever meet together to advise by their messengers , and some at such as that they cannot assemble but with such difficulties and hazzards as exempt them from the duty of it . and whereas they are placed under different civil governments , and those oft-times engaged in mutual enmities , and always jealous of the actings of their own subjects in conjunction with them that are not so , they cannot so convene and preserve the outward peace of the churches . hence the largest of the councils of old that are called oecumenical , never pretended farther than the single roman empire ; when there were innumerable churches planted under the civil jurisdiction of other sovereigns . wherefore in the assembling of churches in synods , respect is to be had unto the convenience of their meeting , that it may be so far as is possible without trouble or danger . and this , with respect unto the causes or occasions of them will determine what churches , which or how many may be necessary on such occasions to constitute a synod . and it is useful hereunto , that the churches which are planted within such a circumference as gives facility or convenience for such conventions , should by virtue of their mutual communion , be in express readiness to convene on all occasions of common concernment . again , in the assistance which in the way of advice and counsel , any one church may stand in need of from others , respect is to be had in their desire , unto such churches as are reputed and known to have the best ability to give advice in the case ; on which account the church at antioch addressed themselves in a peculiar manner unto the church at jerusalem which was far distant from them . but in all these cases use is to be made of spiritual prudence , with respect unto all sorts of circumstances ; which , although some would deny as the privilege of even matters of fact , and the application of general scripture rules unto practice , because we require divine institution unto all parts of religious worship ; yet we must not decline from using the best we have in the service of christ and his church ; rather than comply with any thing which in the whole substance of it , is foreign to his institution . it was the roman empire under one monarch in its civil distributions for rule and government , which gave the first rise and occasion unto a pretended visibly ruling catholick church under one spiritual monarch , distributed into those that were patriarchal , diocesan , metropolitical , and others of inferior kinds . for retaining the people in their civil distributions whereinto they were cast according to the polity and interest of the empire , there were ecclesiastical officers assigned unto each distribution , answerable unto the civil officers which were ordained in the polity of the empire . so in answer unto deputies , exarchs , praefects , governours of provinces and cities , there were found out and erected patriarchs , metropolitans , diocesans , in various allotments of territories and powers , requiring unto their compleat state one visible monarchical head , as the empire had , which was the pope . and whereas the emperors had not only a civil rule and power , but a military also , exercised under them by legates , generals , tribunes , centurions , and the like ; so there was raised an ecclesiastical militia in various orders of monks , friars , and votaries of all sorts , who under their immediate generals and praefects did depend absolutely on the sovereign power of the new ecclesiastical monarch . so was the visible professing church moulded and fashioned into an image of the old roman pagan empire , as it was foretold it should be , revel . , , . and although this image was first framed in compliance with it , and for a resemblance of it ; yet in process of time it substituted it self entirely in the room of the empire , taking all its power unto it self , and doing all its works . from this distribution of various sorts of new-framed churches in the roman empire , arose a constitution of synods or councils in subordination one unto another , until by sundry degrees of ascent they arrived unto those which they called general under the conduct of the pope , whose senate they were . but these things have no countenance given them by any divine institution , apostolical example , or practice of the first churches , but are a meer product of secular interest working it self in a mystery of iniquity . since the dissolution of the roman empire , nations have been cast into distinct civil governments of their own , whose sovereignty is in themselves , by the event of war and counsels thereon emergent . unto each of these it is supposed there is a church-state accommodated ; as the church of england , the church of scotland , the church of france , and the like ; whose original and being depends on the first event of war in that dissolution . unto these new church-states whose being , bounds and limits are given unto them absolutely by those of the civil government which they belong unto , it is thought meet that ecclesiastical synods should be accommodated . but in what way this is to be done there is not yet an agreement ; but it is not my present business to consider the differences that are about it , which are known unto this nation on a dear account . yet this i shall say , that whereas it is eminently useful unto the edification of the church catholick , that all the churches professing the same doctrine of faith , within the limits of the same supream civil government , should hold constant actual communion among themselves unto the ends of it before mentioned , i see not how it can be any abridgment of the liberty of particular churches , or interfere with any of their rights which they hold by divine institution , if through more constant lesser synods for advice , there be a communication of their mutual concerns unto those that are greater , until , if occasion require and it be expedient , there be a general assembly of them all to advise about any thing wherein they are all concerned . but this is granted only with these limitations : ( . ) that the rights of particular churches be preserved in the free election of such as are to be members of all these synods . ( . ) that they assume no authority or jurisdiction over churches or persons in things civil or ecclesiastical . ( . ) that none are immediately concerned in this proper synodal power or authority , ( which what it is we shall enquire ) who are not present in them by their own delegates . for that kind of synods which some call a classis , which is a convention of the elders or officers of sundry parochial churches , distinguished for presential communion , ordinarily in some acts of it by virtue of their office , and for the exercise of office-power , it is the constitution of a new kind of particular churches , by a combination of them into one , whose original distinction is only in the civil limits of their cohabitation ; which probably may be done sometimes , and in some places , unto edification . . the persons of whom all sorts of ecclesiastical synods are to consist , must be enquired into . and there is nothing of meer humane prudential constitution that hath longer obtained in the church , than that those should be officers of the churches only . and , whereas , after the days of the apostles we have no record of any synods of more churches than one , until after the distinction was made between bishops and presbyters , they were made up of both sorts of them . but afterwards , those who were peculiarly called bishops , enclosed this right unto themselves ; on what grounds god knows , there being no one tittle in the scripture , or the light of reason to give them countenance therein . it must therefore be affirmed , that no persons , by virtue of any office meerly , have right to be members of ecclesiastical synods as such . neither is there either example or reason to give colour unto any such pretence . farther is no office-power to be exerted in such synods as such , neither conjunctly by all the members of them , nor singly by any of them . officers of the church , bishops , pastors , elders , may be present in them , ought to be present in them , are meetest for the most part so to be , but meerly as such , it belongs not unto them . the care , oversight and rule of the churches whereunto they do belong , the flock among them distinctly is committed unto them , and for that they are instructed with power and authority by virtue of their office. but as unto their conjunction in synods , which is a meer act and effect of the communion of churches among themselves , it is not committed unto them in a way of peculiar right by virtue of their office. if it be so , without respect unto the power of the magistrate in calling them , or of the churches in choosing them , then it belongs unto them all ; for that which belongs unto any of them , as such by virtue of office , belongs equally unto all , and if it belongs unto all , then it belongs unto all of one sort only , as for instance bishops ; or unto all of all sorts , as for instance presbyters also . if it be stated in the latter way , then every presbyter , as such by virtue of his office , hath right and power to be present in all ecclesiastical synods , equal with that of the bishops . for although it be supposed that his office is not equal unto theirs ; yet it is so also that this right doth equally belong unto his office. if the former be avowed , namely , that this right belongs unto bishops only ( such as are pleaded for ) by virtue of their office as such ; then , ( . ) i desire that any tolerable proof of the confinement of this right unto such an office be produced , either from the scripture or reason , or the example of the first churches ; which as yet i have never seen . ( . ) i fear not to say , that a false presumption hereof was one principal cause and means of introducing tyranny into the churches , and the utter ruine of their liberty . concerning the composition that is made herein , that some should convene in ecclesiastical synods by their own personal right , and in virtue of their office , and others by a kind of delegation from some of their own order , it being a meer political constitution , which i shall immediately speak unto , it is not here to be taken notice of . there is nothing therefore in scripture example , or the light of natural reason , with the principles of all societies in union or communion , that will lead us any farther than this ; that such synods are to be composed , and consist of such persons as are chosen and delegated by those churches respectively who do act and exert their communion in such assemblies . so was it in the first example of them , act. . the church of antioch chose and sent messengers of their own number , to advise with the apostles and elders of the church at jerusalem ; at which consultation the members of that church also were present . and this is the whole of the nature and use of ecclesiastical synods . it is on other accounts that they make up so great a part of the history of the church . for the first three hundred years , they were nothing but voluntary conventions of the officers or elders , bishops and presbyters , with some others of neighbouring churches , on the occasion of differences or heresies among them . in and from the council of nice , there were assemblies of bishops and others called together by the authority of the roman emperours , to advise about matters of faith. in after ages those which were called in the western parts of the world , in italy , germany , france and england , were of a mixt nature advising about things civil and political , as well as sacred and religious , especially with respect unto mutual contests between popes and princes . in them the whole nature of ecclesiastical synods , was lost and buried , and all religion almost destroyed . thus this laudable practice of churches acting their mutual communion by meeting in synods or assemblies by their delegates or messengers , to advise about things of their common concernment and joint edification , as occasion should require , founded in the light of nature , and countenanced by primitive , apostolical example , was turned by the designing interests and ambition of men , unto the enstating of all church-power in such synods , and the usurpation of a power given unto no churches , nor all of them together , as might be made evident by instances innumerable . and whereas they have made such a noise in christian religion , and have filled so many volumes with their acts and doings , yet some of them , who under the pope , would place all religion in them , do grant and contend that they are a meer humane invention : so bellarmine affirms pighius to have done in his book de coelest . hierarch . lib. . cap. . but for his part he judgeth that it is more probable that they have a divine original by virtue of that word ; where two or three are gathered together in my name , there i will be in the midst of them , matth. . de concil . lib. . cap. . which will not bear the least part of the superstructure pretended to be built upon it . of these delegates and messengers of the church , the elders or officers of them , or some of them at least , ought to be the principal . for there is a peculiar care of publick edification incumbent on them , which they are to exercise on all just occasions : they are presumed justly to know best the state of their own churches , and to be best able to judge of matters under consideration . and they do better represent the churches from whom they are sent , than any private brethren can do ; and so receive that respect and reverence which is due to the churches themselves . as also they are most meet to report and recommend the synodal determinations unto their churches ; and a contrary practice would quickly introduce confusion . but yet it is not necessary that they alone should be so sent or delegated by the churches ; but many have others joined with them , and had so until prelatical vsurpation overturned their liberties . so there were others beside paul and barnabas sent from antioch to jerusalem ; and the brethren of that church , whatever is impudently pretended to the contrary , concurred in the decree and determination there made . . that which is termed the calling of these synods , is nothing but the voluntary consent of the churches concerned to meet together by their delegates and messengers , for the ends before declared . i no way deny , but that a christian magistrate may convene by his authority the bishops , pastors or ministers , with such others as he shall think meet within his own territories ; yea , and receive into his convention meet men out of the territories of others by their consent , to advise among themselves , and to give him advice about such concernments of religion , and of the church under his dominion , and regulate himself accordingly . it hath been practised with good success , and may be with bad also . and i do deny that churches have power , without the consent and authority of the magistrate , to convene themselves in synods to exercise any exterior jurisdiction that should affect the persons of his subjects , any otherwise than by the law of the land is allowed . but whereas the synods whereof we treat , and which are all that belong unto the church , can take no cognizance of any civil affairs wherein the persons of men are outwardly concerned ; have no jurisdiction in any kind , can make no determination , but only doctrinal declarations of divine truth , of the same nature with the preaching of the word ; there is no more required unto their calling beyond their own consent , but only that they may meet in external peace by the permission of the magistrate ; which when they cannot obtain , they must deport themselves as in case of other duties required of them by the law of christ. . in the last place i shall speak briefly of the power and authority of these synods , in what measures , extent and numbers soever they are assembled . for although this may be easily collected from what hath been declared concerning their original , nature , causes , use and ends ; yet it may be necessary to be more particularly enquired into , because of the many differences that are about it . there is a three-fold power ascribed unto synods . the first is declarative , consisting in an authoritative teaching and declaring the mind of god in the scripture . the second is constitutive , appointing and ordaining things to be believed , or done and observed by and upon its own authority : and thirdly executive in acts of jurisdiction towards persons and churches . the persons whom the authority pleaded , may affect , are of two sorts . ( . ) such as have their proper representatives present in such synods , who are directly concerned in its conciliary determinations . ( . ) such as have no such representatives in them , who can be no otherwise concerned but in the doctrine materially considered , declared in them . wherefore the ground of any churches receiving , complying with , or obeying the determinations and decrees of synods must be ; either , ( . ) the evidence of truth , given unto those determinations by the synod from the scripture ; or , ( . ) the authority of the synod it self affecting the minds and consciences of those concerned . in the first way , wherein the assent and obedience of churches is resolved ultimately into the evidence of truth from the scripture , upon the judgment which they make thereof , not only the discovery of truth is to be owned , but there is an authoritative proposal of it by virtue of the promised presence of christ in them , if duly sought and regarded ; whence great respect and reverence is due unto them . the power of a synod for the execution of its decrees , respects either , ( . ) the things or doctrines declared ; and is recommendatory of them on its authority from the presence of christ ; or , ( . ) persons ; to censure , excommunicate or punish those who receive them not . these things being premised , the just power of synods may be positively and negatively declared in the two following assertions . . the authority of a synod declaring the mind of god from the scripture in doctrine , or giving counsel as unto practice synodically unto them whose proper representatives are present in it , whose decrees and determinations are to be received and submitted unto on the evidence of their truth and necessity , as recommended by the authority of the synod from the promised presence of christ among them , is suitable unto the mind of christ , and the example given by the apostles , act. . hence it is evident , that in and after such synods , it is in the power of churches concerned , humbly to consider and weigh , ( . ) the evidences of the presence of christ in them , from the manner , causes and ends of their assembling , and from their deportment therein . ( . ) what regard in their constitutions and determinations there hath been unto the word of god , and whether in all things it hath had its due preheminence . ( . ) how all their determinations have been educed from its truth , and are confirmed by its authority . without a due exercise of judgment , with respect unto these things , none can be obliged by any synodical determinations ; seeing without them , and on the want of them , many assemblies of bishops who have had the outward appearance and title of synods or councils , have been dens of thieves , robbers , idolaters , managing their synodical affairs with fury , wrath , horrible craft , according to their interests , unto the ruine of the church ; such were the second ephesine , the second at nice , and that at trent , and others not a few . hence nothing is more to be feared , especially in a state of the church wherein it is declining in faith , worship and holiness , than synods , according to the usual way of their calling and convention , where these things are absent . for they have already been the principal means of leading on and justifying all the apostasy which churches have fallen into . for never was there yet synod of that nature , which did not confirm all the errors and superstitions which had in common practice entred into the church , and opened a door to a progress in them ; nor was ever the pretence of any of them for outward reformation of any use or signification . . the authority of a synod determining articles of faith ? constituting orders and decrees for the conscientious observance of things of their own appointment , to be submitted unto and obeyed on the reason of that authority , under the penalty of excommunication , and the trouble by custom and tyranny thereto annexed , or acted in a way of jurisdiction over churches or persons , is a meer humane invention , for which nothing can be pleaded but prescription from the fourth century of the church , when the progress of the fatal apostasy became visible . the proof of both these assertions depends on what was before declared of the nature and use of these synods . for if they are such as we have evinced , no other power or authority can be ascribed unto them but that here allowed . yet the whole may be farther illustrated by some brief considerations of the assembly at jerusalem in the nature of a synod , recorded , act. . . the occasion of it was a difference in the church of antioch , which they could not compose among themselves , because those who caused the difference , pretended authority from the apostles , as is evident v. . and . . the means of its convention , was the desire and voluntary reference of the matters in debate , made by the church at antioch where the difference was , unto that at jerusalem , whence , as it was pretended , the cause of the difference arose unto the hazzard of their mutual communion , to be consulted of with their own messengers . . the persons constituting the synod , were the apostles , elders and brethren of the church at jerusalem , and the messengers of that antioch , with whom paul and barnabas were joined in the same delegation . . the matter in difference was debated as unto the mind of god concerning it in the scripture , and out of the scripture : on james's proposal the determination was made . . there was nothing imposed a new on the practice of the churches , only direction is given ▪ in one particular instance as unto duty , necessary on many accounts unto the gentile converts , namely to abstain from fornication , and from the use of their liberty in such instances of its practice as whereon scandal would ensue , which was the duty of all christians even before this determination , and is so still in many other instances besides those mentioned in the decree ; only it was now declared unto them . . the grounds whereon the synod proposed the reception of and compliance with its decrees were four , ( . ) that what they had determined was the mind of the holy ghost : it pleased the holy ghost . this mind they knew either by inspiration , or immediate revelation made unto themselves , or by what was written or recorded in the scripture , which on all other occasions they alledged as what was the word , and spoken by the holy ghost . and it is evident , that it was this latter way , namely , a discovery of the mind of the holy ghost in the scripture that is intended . however , it is concluded that nothing be proposed or confirmed in synods , but what is well known to be the mind of the holy ghost in the scripture , either by immediate inspiration , or by scripture revelation . ( . ) the authority of the assembly as convened in the name of christ , and by virtue of his presence , whereof we have spoken before : it pleased the holy ghost and us . ( . ) that the things which they had determined were necessary , that is antecedently so unto that determination ; namely , the abstaining from the use of their liberty in things indifferent in case of scandal . ( . ) from the duty , with respect unto the peace and mutual communion of the jewish and gentile churches : doing thus , say they , ye shall do well , which is all the sanction of their decree ; manifesting that it was doctrinal , not authoritative in way of jurisdiction . . the doctrinal abridgement of the liberty of the gentile christians in case of scandal , they call the imposing of no other burden , in opposition unto what they rejected , namely , the imposing a yoke of ceremonies upon them , v. . so as that the meaning of these words is , that they would lay no burden on them at all , but only advise them unto things necessary for the avoidance of scandal . for it is impious to imagine that the apostles would impose any yoke , or lay any burden on the disciples , but only the yoke and burden of christ , as being contrary to their commission , matth. . , . hence it will follow , that a synod convened in the name of christ , by the voluntary consent of several churches concerned in mutual communion , may declare and determine of the mind of the holy ghost in the scripture , and decree the observation of things true and necessary , because revealed and appointed in the scripture , which are to be received , owned and observed , on the evidence of the mind of the holy ghost in them , and the ministerial authority of the synod it self . finis . errata . page . line . for to read do . p. . l. . r. state . p. l. . r. believers be p. . l. . r. mat. . p. . l. . r. if so , be . p. . l. . r. we enquire not . p. . l. ult . r. these . p. . l. . ephes. . . p. . l. . r. light. p. . l. . r. mere . p. l. . r. auricular . p. . l. . r. conc. p . l. . after publickly add read. p. . l. ▪ r. their mixed . p. . l. . for r. . p. . l. . for . r. . p. . l. . read over you p. . l. . for . r. . p. . l. . for . r. . p. . l. . r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p . l. . r. will fully . p . l. r. this . p. . l. r. do . p. . l. . r. furnace . p . l. . r. probable . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e psal. . , , , , . psal. . , . psal. . cor. . . ephes. . . tim. . , , , , . ezek. . . joh. . . tit. . , , . joh. . . act. . . pet. . . phil. , . tit. . , . act. . . revel . . . act. . . cor. . , , . phil. . , . thes. . . tim. . . rom. . , . tit. . . mat. . , , . cor. . . rom. . . cor. . . chap. . . matth. . , . luke . . tim. . . rom. . . joh. . . joh. . , , . matth. . , , . cor. . . matth. . , , . mar. . , . luke . . phil. . . act. . , , . act. . . matth. . , . cor. . . phil. . . notes for div a -e ☞ notes for div a -e ☞ notes for div a -e matth. . , , , . chap. . , , , , . luke . , , , . pet. . , , , , . joh. . . act. . , . pet. . , . cant. . . jerem. . . chap. . . ezek. . . gen. . . psal. . . psal. . . joh. . , , . heb. . . pet. . . chap. . . ☜ ☞ notes for div a -e jam . . joh. . . exod. . . deut. . . levit. . . sam. . . cor. . , . ephes. . , , . ch. . . phil. . . col. . . thess. . . notes for div a -e ☞ notes for div a -e ☜ notes for div a -e ☞ ☞ notes for div a -e ☜ ☞ a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, octob. . . congregational church in england and wales. savoy meeting ( ). this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing n thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, octob. . . congregational church in england and wales. savoy meeting ( ). owen, john, - . nye, philip, ?- . [ ], , [ ] p. printed for d.l. and are to be sold in paul's church-yard, fleet-street, and westminster-hall, london : . drawn up for the assembly of ministers of congregational churches by a committee headed by philip nye, to whom the work is often attributed. the preface was written by john owen. annotations on thomason copy: "philip nie & his confederat crew of === independants" is inserted with a caret between 'by' and 'their' on the titlepage. "but printed not before [the] february after feb. . "; the in the imprint date has been crossed out and replaced with an " ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng congregational churches -- creeds -- early works to . congregational churches -- doctrines -- early works to . congregational churches -- england -- history -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england;: agreed upon and consented unto by thei congregational church in england and wales. savoy meeting c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england ; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy , octob. . . london printed for d. l. and are to be sold in paul's church-yard , fleet-street , and westminster-hall , . a preface . confession of the faith that is in us , when justly called for , is so indispensable a due all owe to the glery of the soveraign god , that it is ranked among the duties of the first commandment , such as prayer is ; and therefore by paul yoaked with faith it self , as necessary to salvation : with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation . our lord christ himself , when he was accused of his doctrine , considered simply as a matter of fact by preaching ▪ refused to answer ; because , as such , it lay upon evidence , & matter of testimony of others ; unto whom therefore he refers himself : but when both the high-priest and pilate expostulate his faith , and what he held himself to be ; he without any demur at all , chearfully makes declarat on , that he was the son of god ; so to the high-priest : and that he was a king , and born to be a king ; thus to pilate . though upon the uttering of it his life lay at the stake : which holy profession of his is celebrated for our example , tim. . . confessions , when made by a company of professors of christianity joyntly meeting to that end , the most genuine and natural use of such confessions is , that under the same form of words , they express the substance of the same common salvation or unity of their faith ; whereby speaking the same things , they shew themselves perfectly joyned in the same mind , and in the same judgment , cor. . . and accordingly such a transaction is to be looked upon but as a meet or fit medium or means whereby to express that their common faith and salvation ▪ and no way to be made use of as an imposition upon any : what ever is of force or constraint in matters of this nature , causeth them to degenerate from the name and nature of confessions , and turns them from being confessions of faith , into exactions and impositions of faith . and such common confessions of the orthodox faith , made in simplicity of heart by any such body of christians , with concord among themselves , ought to be entertained by all others that love the truth as it is in jesus , with an answerable rejoycing : for if the unanimous opinions and assertions but in some few points of religion , and that when by two churches , namely , that of jerusalem , and the messengers of antioch met , assisted by some of the apostles , were by the believers of those times received with so much joy , ( as it is said , they rejoyced for the consolation ) much more this is to be done , when the whole substance of faith , and form of wholesome words shall be declared by the messengers of a multitude of churches , though wanting those advantages of counsel and authority of the apostles which that assembly had . which acceptation is then more specially due , when these shall ( to choose ) utter and declare their faith in the same substance for matter , yea , words , for the most part , that other chur●hes and assembli●s , reputed the most orthodox , have done before them : for upon such a correspondency , all may see that actually accomplished , which the apostle did but exhort unto , and pray for , in those two more eminent churches of the corinthians and the romans , ( and so in them for all the christians of his time ) that both jew and gentile , that is , men of different perswasions ( as they were ) might glorifie god with one mind and with one mouth . and truly , the very turning of the gentiles to the owning of the same faith , in the substance of it with the christian jew ( though differing in greater points then we do from our brethren ) is presently after dignified by the apostle with this style , that it is the confession of jesus christ himself ; not as the object onely , but as the author and maker thereof : i will confess to thee ( saith christ to god ) among the gentiles . so that in all such accords , christ is the great and first confessor ; and we , and all our faith uttered 〈◊〉 us , are but the epistles , ( as paul ) and confessions ( as isaiah there ) of their lord and ours ; he , but expressing what is written in his heart , through their hearts and mouthes , to the glory of god the father : and shall not we all rejoyce herein , when as christ himself is said to do it upon this occasion : as it there also follows , i will sing unto thy name . further as the soundness and wholesomness of the matter gives the vigor and life to such confessions so the inward freeness , willingness , and readiness of the spirits of the confessors do contribute the beauty and loveliness thereunto : as it is in prayer to god , so in confessions made to men . if two or three met ▪ do agree , it renders both , 〈…〉 the more acceptable . the spirit of christ is in himself too free , great and generous a spirit to suffer himself to be used by any humane arm , to whip men into belief he drive● not but gently leads into all truth , and perswades men to dwell in the tents of l●k● precious faith ; which would lose of its preciousness and value if that sparkle of freeness sh●ne not in it : the character of his people , i● to be a willing people in the day of his power , ( not mans ) in the beauties of holiness which are the assemblings of the saints : one gl●●y of which assemblings in that fi●st ch●rch i● said to have been , they met with one accord ; which is there in the psalm prophesied of , in the instance of that first church , for all other that should succeed . and as this great spirit is in himself free ▪ when , and how for , and in whom to work , so where and when he doth work , he carrieth it with the same freedom , and is said to be a free spirit , as he both is , and works in us : and where this spirit of the lord is , there is liberty . now , as to this confession of ours , besides , that a conspicuous conjunction of the particulars mentioned , hath appeared therein : there are also four remarkable attendants thereon , which added , might perhaps in the eyes of sober and indifferent spirits , give the whole of this transaction a room and rank amongst other many good and memorable things of this age ; at least all set together , do cast as clear a gleam and manifestation of god's power and presence , as hath appeared in any such kind of confessions , made by so numerous a company these later years . the first , is the temper , ( or distemper rather ) of the times , during which , these churches have been gathering , and which they have run through . all do ( out of a general sense ) complain that the times have been perillous , or difficult times ( as the apostle fore told ) ; and that in respect to danger from seducing spirits , more perillous then the hottest seasons of persecution . we have sa●led through an aestuation , fluxes and refluxes of great varieties of spirits , doctrines , opinions and occurrences , and especially in the matter of opinions , which have been accompanied in their several seasons , with powerful perswasions and temptations , to seduce those of our way . it is known , men have taken the freedom ( notwithstanding what authority hath interposed to the contrary ) to vent and vend ●heir own vain and accursed imaginations , contrary to the great and fixed truths of the gospel , insomuch , as take the whole round and circle of delusi●ns , the devil hath in this small time , ran ; it will be found , that every truth , of greater or lesser weight , hath by one or other hand , at one time or another , been questioned and called to the bar amongst us , yea , and impleaded , under the pretext ( which hath some degree of justice in it ) that all should not be bound up to the traditions of former times , nor take religion upon trust . whence it hath come to pass , that many of the soundest professors were put upon a new search and d squisition of such truths , as they had taken for granted , and yet had lived upon the comfort of : to the end they might be able to convince others , and est blish their own hearts against that darkness and unbelief , that is ready to close with error , or at least t● doubt of the truth , when error is speciousl● presented . and hereupon we do professedly account it one of the greatest advantages gained out of the temptations of these times , yea the honour of the saints and ministers of these nations , that after they had sweetly been exercised in , and had improved practical and experimental truths , this should be the r forther lot , to examine and discuss , and indeed , anew to learn over every doctrinal truth , both out of the scriptures , and also with a fresh taste thereof in their own hearts ; which is no other then what the apostle exhorts to , try all things , bold fast that which is good . conversion unto god at first , what is it else then a savory and aff●ct●onate application , and the bring●ng home to the heart with spiritual light and life , all truths that are necessary to salvation , together with other lesser truths ? all which we had afore conversion taken in but notionally from common education and tradition . now that after this first gust those who have bin thus converted should be put upon a new probation and search out of the scriptures , not onely of all principles explicitely ingredients to conversion ; ( unto which the apostle referreth the galatians when they had diverted from them ) but of all other superstructures as well as fundamentals ; and together therewith , anew to experiment the power and sweetness of all these in their own souls : what is this but tryed faith indeed ? and equivalent to a new conversion unto the truth ? an anchor that is proved to be sure and stedfast , that will certainly hold in all contrary storms . this was the eminent seal and commendation which those holy apostles that lived and wrote last ( peter , john , and jude in their epistles ) did set and give to the christians of the latter part of those primitive times . and besides , it is clear and evident by all the other epistles , from first to last , that it cost the apostles as much , and far more care and pains to preserve them they had converted , in the truth , then they had taken to turn them thereunto at first : and it is in it self as great a work and instance of the power of god , that keeps , yea , guards us through faith unto salvation . secondly , let this be added , ( or superadded rather ) to give full weight and measure , even to running over , that we have all along this season , held forth ( though quarrelled with for it by our brethren ) this great principle of these times , that amongst all christian states and churches , there ought to be vouchsafed a forbearance and mutual indulgence unto saints of all perswasions , that keep unto , and hold fast the necessary foundations of faith and holiness , in all other matters extrafundamental , whether of faith or order . this to have been our constant principle , we are not ashamed to confess to the whole christian world . wherein yet we desire we may be understood , not as if in the abstract we stood indifferent to falshood or truth , or were careless whether faith or error , in any truths but fundamental , did obtain or not , so we had our liberty in our petty and smaller differences ; or as if to make sure of that , we had cut out this wide cloake for it : no , we profess that the whole , and every particle of that faith delivered to the saints , ( the substance of which we have according to our light here professed ) is , as to the propagation and furtherance of it by all gospel-means , as precious to us as our lives ; or what can be supposed dear to us ; and in our sphere we have endeavored to promote them accordingly : but yet withall , we have and do contend , ( and if we had all the power which any , or all of our brethren of differing opinions have desired to have over us , or others , we should freely grant it unto them all ) we have and do contend for this , that in the concrete , the persons of all such gracious saints , they and their errors , as they are in them , when they are but such errors as do and may stand with communion with christ , though they should not repent of them , as not being convinced of them to the end of their days ; that those , with their errors ( that are purely spiritual , and intrench and overthrow not civil societies , ) as concrete with their persons , should for christs sake be born withall by all christians in the world ; and they notwithstanding be permitted to enjoy all ordinances and spiritual priviledges according to their light , as freely as any other of their brethren that pretend to the greatest orthodoxity ; as having as equal , and as fair a right in and unto christ , and all the holy things of christ , that any other can challenge to themselves . and this doth afford a full and invincible testimony on our behalf , in that whiles we have so earnestly contended for this just liberty of saints in all the churches of christ , we our selves have no need of it : that is , as to the matter of the profession of faith which we have maintained together with others : and of this , this subsequent confession of faith gives sufficient evidence . so as we have the confidence in christ , to utter in the words of those two great apostles , that we have stood fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free ( in the behalf of others , rather then our selves ) and having been free , have not made use of our liberty for a cloak of error or maliciousness in our selves . and yet , loe , whereas from the beginning of the rearing of these churches , that of the apostle hath been ( by some ) prophecyed of us , and applyed to us , that whiles we promised ( unto others ) liberty , we our selves would become servants of corruption , and be brought in bondage to all sorts of fancies and imaginations ; yet the whole world may now see after the experience of many years ran-through ( and it is manifest by this confession ) that the great and gracious god hath not only kept us in that common unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god , which the who●e community of saints have and shall in their generations come unto , but also in the same truths , both small and great , that are built thereupon , that any other of the best and more pure reformed churches in their best times ( which were their first times ) have arrived unto : this confession withall holding forth a professed opposition unto the common errors and heresies of these times . these two considerations have been taken from the seasons we have gone through . thirdly , let the space of time it self , or dayes , wherein from first to last the whole of this confession was framed and consented to by the whole of us , be duly considered by sober and ingenuous spirits : the whole of days in which we had meetings about it , ( set aside the two lords days and the first days meeting , in which we considered and debated what to pitch upon ) were but dayes , part of which also was spent by some of us in prayer , others in consulting ; and in the end all agreeing . we mention this small circumstance but to this end , ( which still adds unto the former ) that it gives demonstration , not of our freeness and willingness onely , but of our readiness and preparedness unto so great a work ; which otherwise , and in other assemblies , hath ordinarily taken up long and great debates , as in such a variety of matters of such concernment , may well be supposed to fall out . and this is no other then what the apostle peter exhorts unto , be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason , or account of the hope that is in you . the apostle paul saith of the spiritual truths of the gospel , that god hath prepared them for those that love him . the inward and innate constitution of the new creature being in it self such as is suted to all those truths , as congenial thereunto : but although there be this mutual adaptness between these two , yet such is the mixture of ignorance , darkness and unbelief , carnal reason ▪ pre-occupation of judgment , interest of parties , wantonness in opinion , proud adhering to our own perswasions , and perverse oppositions and av●rsness to agree with others , and a multitude of such like distempers common to believing man : all which are not onely mixed with , but at times ( especially in such times as have passed over our heads ) are ready to overcloud our judgments , and to cause our eyes to be double , and sometimes prevail as well as lusts , and do byass our wills and affections : and such is their mixture , that although there may be existent an habitual preparedness in mens spirits , yet not always a present readiness to be found , specially not in such a various multitude of men , to make a solemn and deliberate profession of all truths , it being as great a work to find the spirits of the just ( perhaps the best of saints ) ready for every truth , as to be prepared to every good work . it is therefore to be looked at , as a great and special work of the holy ghost , that so numerous a company of ministers , and other principal brethren , should so readily , speedily , and joyntly give up themselves unto such a whole body of truths that are after godliness . this argues they had not their faith to seek ; but , as is said of ezra , that they were ready scribes , and ( as christ ) instructed unto the kingdom of heaven , being as the good housholders of so many families of christ , b●nging forth of their store and treasury new and old. it shews these truths had been familiar to them , and they acquainted with them , as with their daily food and provision , ( as christs allusion there insinuates ) : in a word , that so they had preached , and that so their people had beleived , as the apostle speaks upon one like particular occasion . and the apostle paul considers ( in cases of this nature ) the suddenness o●length of the time , either one way or the other ; whether it were in mens forsaking or learning of the truth . thus the suddenness in the galatians ca●e in leaving the truth ▪ he makes a wonder of it : i marvel that you are so soon ( that is , in so short a time ) removed from the true gospel unto another . again on the contrary , in the hebrews he aggravates their backwards ess , that when for the time you ought to be teachers , you had need that one teach you the very first principles of the oracles of god . the parallel contrary to both these having fallen our in this transaction , may have some ingredient and weight with ingenuous spirits in its kind , according to the proportion is put upon either of these forementioned in their adverse kind , and obtain the like special observation . this accord of ours hath fallen out without having held any correspondency together , or prepared consultation , by which we might come to be advised of one anothers mindes . we alledge not this as a matter of commendation in us ; no , we acknowledge it to have been a great neglect : and accordingly one of the first proposals for union amongst us was , that there might be a constant correspondence held among the churches for counsel and mutual edification , so for time to come to prevent the like omission . we confess that from the first , every , or at least the generality of our churches , have been in a manner like so many ships ( though holding forth the same general colours ) lancht singly , and sailing apart and alone in the vast ocean of these tumultuating times , and they exposed to every wind of doctrine , under no other conduct then the word and spirit , and their particular elders and principal brethren , without associations among our selves , or so much as holding out common lights to others , whereby to know where we were . but yet whilest we thus confess to our own shame this neglect , let all acknowledge , that god hath ordered it for his high and greater glory , in that his singular care and power should have so warcht over each of these , as that all should be found to have steered their course by the same chart , and to have been bound for one and the same port , and that upon this general search now made , that the same holy and blessed truths of all sorts , which are currant and warrantable amongst all the other churches of christ in the world , should be found to be our lading . the whole , and every of these things when put together , do cause us ( whatever men of prejudiced and opposite spirits may find out to slight them ) with a holy admiration , to say , that this is no other then the lords doing ; and which we with thansgiving do take from his hand as a speciall token upon us for good , and doth shew that god is faithfull and upright towards those that are planted in his house : and that as the faith was but once for all , and intentionally first delivered unto the saints ; so the saints , when not abiding scattered , but gathered under their respective pastors according to gods heart into an house , and churches unto the living god , such together are , as paul forespake it , the most steady and firm pillar and seat of truth that god hath anywhere appointed to himself on earth , where his truth is best conserved , and publiquely held forth ; there being in such assemblies weekly a rich dwelling of the word amongst them , that is , a daily open house kept by the means of those good housholders , their teachers and other instructers respectively appropriated to them , whom christ in the vertue of his ascension , continues to give as gifts to his people , himself dwelling amongst them ; to the end that by this , as the most sure standing permanent means , the saints might be perfected ▪ till we all ( even all the saints in present and future ages ) do come by this constant and daily ordinance of his unto the unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man , unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of christ ( which though growing on by parts and piecemeal ▪ will yet appear compleat , when that great and general assembly shall be gathered , then when this world is ended , and these dispensations have had their fulness and period ) and so that from henceforth ( such a provision being made for us ) we be no more children tossed too and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine . and finally , this doth give a fresh and recent demonstration , that the great apostle and high-priest of our profession is indeed ascended into heaven , and continues there with power and care , faithfull as a son over his own house , whose house are we , if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoycing of the hope firm unto the end : and shews that he will , as he hath promised , be with his own institutions to the end of the world . it is true , that many sad miscarriages , divisions , breaches , fallings off from holy ordinances of god , have along this time of tentation , ( especially in the beginning of it ) been found in some of our churches ; and no wonder , if what hath been said be fully considered : many reasons might further be given hereof , that would be a sufficient apology , without the help of a retortion upon other churches ( that promised themselves peace ) how that more destroying ruptures have befallen them , and that in a wider sphere and compasse ; which though it should not justifie us , yet may serve to stop others mouths . let rome glory of the peace in , and obedience of her children , against the reformed churches for their divisions that occurred ( especially in the first rearing of them ) whilest we all know the causes of their dull & stupid peace to have been carnal interests , worldly correspondencies , and coalitions , strengthened by gratifications of all sorts of men by that religion , the principles of blind devotion , traditional faith , ecclesiastical tyranny , by which she keeps her children in bondage to this day . we are also certain , that the very same prejudices that from hence they would cast upon the reformed ( if they were just ) do lye as f●lly against those pure churches raised up by the apostles themselves in those first t●mes : for as we have heard of their patience , sufferings , consolations , and the transcending gifts powred out , and graces shining in them , so we have heard complaints of their divisions too , of the forsakings of their assemblies , as the custom or manner of some was ( which later were in that respect felones de se , and needed no other delivering up to satan as their punishment , then what they executed upon themselves . ) we read of the shipwrack also of faith and a good conscience , and overthrowings of the faith of some ; and still but of some ▪ not all , nor the most : which is one piece of an apologie the apostle again and again inserts to future ages , and through mercy we have the same to make . and truly we take the confidence professedly to say , that these tentations common to the purest churches of saints separated from the mixture of the world , though they grieve us ( for who is offended , and we burn not ? ) yet they do not at all stumble us , as to the truth of our way , had they been many more : we say it again , these stumble us no more ( as to that point ) then it doth offend us against the power of religion it self , to have seen , and to see daily in particular persons called out and separated from the world by an effectual work of conversion , that they for a while do suffer under disquietments , vexations , turmoils , unsettlements of spirit , that they are tossed with tempests and horrid tentations , such as they had not in their former estate , whilst they walked according to the course of this world : for peter hath sufficiently instructed us whose businesse it is to raise such storms , even the devil's ; and also whose designe it is , that after they have suffered a while , thereby they shall be setled , perfected , stablished , that have so suffered , even the god of all grace . and look what course of dispensation god holds to saints personally , he doth the like to bodyes of saints in churches , and the devil the same for his part too : and that consolatory maxim of the apostle , god shall tread down satan under your feet shortly , which paul utteteth concerning the church of rome , shews how both god and satan have this very hand therein ; for he speaks that very thing in reference unto their divisions , as the coherence clearly manifests ; and so you have both designs exprest at once . yea , we are not a little induced to think , that the divisions , breaches , &c. of those p●imitive churches would not have been so frequent among the people themselves , and not the elders onely , had not the freedom , liberties and rights of the members ( the brethren , we mean ) been stated and exercised in those churches , the same which we maintain and contend for to be in ours . yea ( which perhaps may seem more strange to many ) had not those churches been constituted of members inlightned further then with notional and traditional knowledge , by a new and more powerfull light of the holy ghost , wherein they had been made partakers of the holy ghost , and the heavenly gift , and their hearts had tasted the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come ▪ and of such members at lowest , there had not fallen out those kindes of divisions among them . for experience hath shewn , that the common sort of meer doctrinal professors ( such as the most are now a days ) whose highest elevation is but freedom from moral scandal , joyned with devotion to christ through meer education , such as in many turks is found towards mahomet , that these finding and feeling themselves not much concerned in the active part of religion , so they may have the honour ( especially upon a reformation of a new refinement ) that themselves are approved members , admitted to the lords supper , and their children to the ordinance of baptism ; they regard not other matters ( as gallio did not ) but do easily and readily give up themselves unto their guides , being like dead fishes carried with the commonstream ; whereas those that have a further renewed light by a work of the holy ghost , whether saving or temporary , are upon the quite contrary grounds apt to be bufie about , and inquisitive into , what they are to receive and practise , or wherein their consciences are professedly concerned and involved : and thereupon they take the freedom to examine and try the spirits , whether of god or no : and from hence are more apt to dissatisfaction , and from thence to run into division , and many of such proving to be inlightned but with a temporary , not saving faith ( who have such a work of the spirit upon them , and profession in them , as will and doth approve it self to the judgment of saints , and ought to be so judged , until they be otherwise discovered ) who at long-run , prove hypocrites , through indulgence unto lusts , and then out of their lusts persist to hold up these divisions unto breach of , or departings from , churches , and the ordinances of god , and god is even with them for it , they waxing worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived ; and even many of those that are sincere , through a mixture of darkness and erroneousness in their judgments , are for a season apt out of conscience to be led away with the error of others , which lie in wait to deceive . insomuch as the apostle upon the example of those first times , fore-seeing also the like events in following generations upon the like causes , hath been bold to set this down as a ruled case , that likewise in other churches so constituted and de facto empriviledged as that of the church of corinth was ( which single church , in the sacred records about it , is the compleatest mirror of church-constitution , order , and government , and events thereupon ensuing , of any one church whatever that we have story of ) his maxim is , there must be also divisions amongst you ; he setly inserts an [ also ] in the case , as that which had been in his own observation , and that which would be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the fate of other churches like thereunto , so prophefieth he : and he speaks this as peremptorily , as he doth elsewhere in that other , we must through many tribulations enter into the kingdom of heaven : yea , and that all that will live godly in christ jesus , shall suffer persecution : there is a [ must ] upon both alike ; and we bless god , that we have run through both , and do say , and we say no more that as it was then , so it is now , in both respects . however , such hath been the powerful hand of god's providence in these , which have been the worst of our tryals , that out of an approved experience and observation of the issue , we are able to adde that other part of the apostles prediction , that therefore such rents must be , that they which are approved may be made manifest among you ; which holy issue god ( as having aimed at it therein ) doth frequently and certainly bring about in churches , as he doth bring upon them that other fate of division . let them therfore look untoit , that are the authors of such disturbances , as the apostle warneth , gal . . the experiment is this , that we have seen , and do daily see , that multitudes of holy and precious souls , and ( in the holy ghosts word ) approved saints , have been , and are the more rooted and grounded by means of these shakings , and do continue to cleave the faster to christ ▪ and the purity of hi● ordinances , and value them the more by this cost god hath put them to for the enjoying of them , who having been planted in the house of the lord , have flourished in the courts of our god , in these evil times , to new that the lord is upright . and this experimented event from out of such divisions , hath more confirmed us , and is a louder apologie for us , then all that our opposites are able from our breaches to alleadge to prejudice us . we will add a few words for conclusion , and give a more particular account of this our declaration . in drawing up this confession of faith , we have had before us the articles of religion , approved and passed by both houses of parliament , after advice had with an assembly of divines , called together by them for that purpose . to which confession , for the substance of it , we fully assent , as do our brethren of new-england , and the churches also of scotland , as each in their general synods have testified . a few things we have added for obviating some erroneous opinions , that have been more broadly and boldly here of late maintained by the asserters , then in former times ; and made other additions and alterations in method , here and there , and some clearer explanations , as we found occasion . we have endeavoured throughout , to hold to such truths in this our confession , as are more properly termed matters of faith ; and what is of church-order , we dispose in certain propositions by it self . to this course we are led by the example of the honorable houses of parliament , observing what was established , and what omitted by them in that confession the assembly presented to them . who thought it not convenient to have matters of discipline and church-government put into a confession of faith , especially such particulars thereof , as then were , and still are controverted and under dispute by men orthodox and sound in faith . the th cap therefore of that confession , as it was presented to them by the assembly , which is of church censures , their tlse , kinds , and in whom placed : as also cap. . of synods and councels , by whom to be called , of what force in their decrees and determinations . and the th paragr. of the th cap. which determines what opinions and practises disturb the peace of the church , and how such disturbers ought to be proceeded against by the censures of the church , and punished by the civil magistrate ▪ also a great part of the th cap. of marriage and divorce . these were such doubtful assertions , and so unsutable to a confession of faith , as the honorable houses in their great wisdom thought fit to lay them aside : there being nothing that tends more to heighten dissentions among brethren , then to determine and adopt the matter of their difference , under so high a title , as to be an article of our faith : so that there are two whole chapters , and some paragraphs in other chapters in their confession , that we have upon this account omitted ; and the rather do we give this notice , because that copy of the parl. followed by us , is in few mens hands ; the other as it came from the assembly , being approved of in scotland , was printed and hastened into the world , before the parl , had declared their resolutions about it ; which was not til june . . and yet hath been , and continueth to be the copy ( ordinarily ) onely sold , printed , and reprinted for these years . after the th cap. of the law , we have added a cap. of the gospel , it being a title that may not well be omitted in a confession of faith : in which chapter , what is dispersed , and by intimation in the assemblies confession , with some little addition , is here brought together , and more fully , under one head . that there are not scriptures annexed , as in some confessions ( though in divers others it 's otherwise ) we give the same account as did the reverend assembly in the same case : which was this ; the confession being large , and so framed , as to meet with the common errors , if the scriptures should have been alleadged with any clearness , and by shewing where the strength of the proof lieth , it would have required a volume . we say further , it being our utmost end in this ( as it is indeed of a confession ) humbly to give an account what we hold and assert in these matters ; that others , especially the churches of christ may judge of us accordingly : this we aimed at , and not so much to instruct others , or convince gain-sayers . these are the proper works of other institutions of christ , and are to be done in the strength of express scripture . a confession is an ordinance of another nature . what we have laid down and asserted about churches and their government , we humbly conceive to be the order which christ himself hath appointed to be observed , we have endeavored to follow scripture light ; and those also that went before us according to that rule , desirous of nearest uniformity with reforming-churches , as with our brethren in new-england , so with others , that differ from them and us . the models and platforms of this subject laid down by learned men , and practised by churches , are various : we do not judge it brotherly , or grateful , to insist upon comparisons , as some have done ; but this experience teacheth , that the variety , and possibly the disputes and emulations arising thence , have much strengthened , if not fixed , this unhappy perswasion in the mindes of some learned and good men , namely , that there is no setled order laid down in scripture ; but it 's left to the prudence of the christian magistrate , to compose or make choice of such a form as is most sutable and consistent with their civil-government . where this opinion is entertained in the perswasion of governors , there , churches asserting their powet and order to be jure divino , and the appointment of jesus christ , can have no better nor more honorable entertainment , then a toleration or permission . yet herein there is this remarkable advantage to all parties that differ , about what in government is of christ's appointment ; in that such magistrates have a far greater latitude in conscience , to tolerate and permit the several forms of each so bound up in their perswasion , then they have to submit unto what the magistrate shall impose : and thereupon the magistrate exercising an indulgency and forbearance , with protection and encouragement to the people of god , so differing from him , and amongst themselves : doth therein discharge as great a faithfulness to christ , and love to his people , as can any way be supposed and expected from any christian magistrate , of what perswasion soever he is . and where this clemency from governors is shewed to any sort of persons , or churches of christ , upon such a principle , it will in equity produce this just effect , that all that so differ from him , and amongst themselves , standing in equal and alike difference from the principle of such a magistrate , he is equally free to give a like liberty to them , one as well as the other . this faithfulness in our governours we do with thankfulness to god acknowledge , and to their everlasting honour , which appeared much in the late reformation . the hierarchie , common-prayer-book , and all other things grievous to god's people , being removed , they made choice of an assembly of learned men , to advise what government and order is meet to be established in the room of these things ; and because it was known there were different opinions ( as always hath been among godly men ) about forms of church-government , there was by the ordinance first sent forth to call an assembly , not onely a choice made of persons of several perswasions , to sit as members there , but liberty given , to a lesser number , if dissenting , to report their judgments and reasons , as well and as freely as the major part . hereupon the honorable house of commons ( an indulgence we hope will never be forgotten ) finding by papers received from them , that the members of the assembly were not like to compose differences amongst themselves , so as to joyn in the same rule for church-government , did order further as followeth : that a committee of lords and commons , &c. do take into consideration the differences of the opinions in the assembly of divines in point of church-government , and to endeavor a union if it be possible ; and in case that cannot be done , to endeavor the finding out some may , how far tender consciences , who cannot in all things submit to the same rule which shal be established , may be born with according to the word , and as may stand with the publique peace . by all which it is evident , the parliament purposed not to establish the rule of church-government with such rigor , as might not permit and bear with a practise different from what they had established : in persons and churches of different principles , if occasion were . and this christian clemency and indulgence in our governours , hath been the foundation of that freedom and liberty , in the managing of church-affairs , which our brethren , as well as we , that differ from them , do now , and have many years enjoyed . the honorable houses by several ordinances of parliament after much consultation , having setled rules for church-government , and such an eccleasistical order as they judged would best joynt with the laws and government of the kingdom , did publish them , requiring the practise hereof throughout the nation ; and in particular , by the min. of the pr. of lon. but ( upon the former reason , or the like charitable consideration ) these rules were not imposed by them under any penalty , or rigorous inforcement , though frequently urged thereunto by some . our reverend brethren of the province of london , having considered of these ordinances , and the church-government laid down in them , declared their opinions to be , that there is not a compleat rule in those ordinances ; also , that there are many necessary things not yet established , and some things wherein their consciences are not so fully satisfied . these brethren , in the same paper , have published also their joynt resolution to practise in all things according to the rule of the word , and according to these ordinances , so far as they conceive them correspond to it , and in so doing , they trust they shall not grieve the spirit of the truly godly , nor give any just occasion to them that are contrary minded , to blame their proceedings . we humbly conceive that ( we being dissatisfied in these things as our brethren ) the like liberty was intended by the honorable houses and may be taken by us of the congregational way ( without blame or grief to the spirits of those brethren at least ) to resolve , or rather to continue in the same resolution and practise in these matters , which indeed were our practises in times of greatest opposition , and before this reformation was began . and as our brethren the ministers of london , drew up and published their opinions and apprehensions about church-government into an intire system ; so we now give the like publique account of our consciences , and the rules by which we have constantly practised hitherto ; which we have here drawn up , and do present . whereby it will appear how much , or how little we differ in these things from our presbyterian brethren . and we trust there is no just cause why any man , either for our differing from the present settlement , it being out of conscience , and not out of contempt , or our differences one from another , being not wilful , should charge either of us with that odious reproach of schism . and indeed , if not for our d ffering from the state settlement , much less because we differ from our brethren , our d fferences being in some lesser things , and circumstances onely , as themselves acknowledge . and let it be further considered , that we have not broken from them or their order by these differences ( but rather they from us ) and in that respect we less deserve their censure ; our practise being no other then what it was in our breaking from episcopacy , and long before presbytery , or any such form as now they are in , was taken up by them ; and we will not say how probable it is , that the yoke of episcopacy had been upon our neck to this day , if some such way ( as formerly , and now is , and hath been termed schism ) had not with much suffering bin then practised , and since continued in . for novelty wherewith we are likewise both charged by the enemies of both , it is true , in respect of the publique and open profession , either of presbytery or independency , this nation hath been a stranger to each way , it 's possible , ever since it hath been christian ; though for our s lves we are able to trace the foot-steps of an independent congregational way in the ancientest customs of the churches ; as also in the writings of our soundest protestant divines , and ( that which we are much satified in ) a full concurrence throughout in all the substantial parts of church-government , with our reverend brethren the old puritan non-conformists ▪ who being instant in prayer and much sufferings , prevailed with the lord , and we reap with joy , what they sowed in tears . our brethren also that are for presbyterial subordinations , profess what is of weight against novelty for their way . and now therefore seeing the lord , in whose hand is the heart of princes , hath put into the hearts of our governours to tolerate and permit ( as they have done many years ) persons of each perswasion , to enjoy their consciences , though neither come up to the rule established by authority : and that which is more , to give us both protection , and the same encouragement , that the most devoted conformists in those former superstitious times enjoyed ; yea , and by a publike law to estalish this liberty for time to come ; and yet further , in the midst of our fears , to set over us a prince that owns this establishment , and cordially resolves to secure our churches in the enjoyment of these liberties , if we abuse them not to the disturbance of the civil peace . this should be a very great engagement upon the hearts of all , though of different perswasions , to endeavour our utmost , joyntly to promove the honour and prosperity of such a government and governours by whatsoever means , which in our callings as ministers of the gospel , and as churches of jesus christ the prince of peace , we are any way able to do ; as also to be peaceably disposed one towards another , and with mutual toleration to love as brethren , notwithstanding such differences : remembring , as it 's very equal we should , the differences that are between presbyterians and independents , being differences between fellow-servants , and neither of them having authority given from god or man , to impose their opinions , one more then the other . that our governours after so solemn an establishment , should thus bear with us both , in our greater differences from their rule : and after this , for any of us to take a fellow-servant by the throat , upon the account of a lesser reckoning , and nothing due to him upon it , is to forget , at least not to exercise , that compassion and tenderness we have found , where we had less ground to challenge or expect it . our prayer unto god is , that whereto we have already attained , we all may walk by the same rule , and that wherein we are otherwise minded , god would reveal it to us in his due time . a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england . chap. i. of the holy scripture . although the light of nature , and the works of creation and providence , do so far manifest the goodnesse , wisdom , and power of god , as to leave men unexcusable ; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of god and of his will , which is necessary unto salvation : therefore it pleased the lord at sundry times , and in divers manners to reveal himself , and to declare that his will unto his church ; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth , and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh , and the malice of satan and of the world , to commit the same wholly unto writing : which maketh the holy scripture to be most necessary ; those former wayes of gods revealing his will unto his people , being now ceased . ii. under the name of holy scripture , or the word of god written , are now contained all the books of the old and new testament ; which are these : of the old testament . genesis , exodus , leviticus , numbers , deuteronomy , joshua , judges , ruth , samuel , samuel , kings , kings , chronicles , chronicles , ezra , nehemiah , esther , job , psalms , proverbs , ecclesiastes , the song of songs , isaiah , jeremiah , lamentations ezekiel , daniel , hosea , joel , amos , obadiah , jonah , micah , nahum , habakkuk , zephaniah , haggai , zechariah , malachi . of the new testament . mathew , mark , luke , john , the acts of the apostles , pauls epistle to the romans , corinthians , corinthians , galatians , ephesians , phillippians , colossians , thessalonians , thessalonians , to timothy , to timothy , to titus , to philemon , the epistle to the hebrews , the epistle of james , the first and second epistles of peter , the first , second and third epistles of john , the epistle of jude , the revelation . all which are given by the inspiration of god to be the rule of faith and life . iii. the books commonly called apocrypha , not being of divine inspiration , are no part of the canon of the scripture ; and therefore are of no authority in the church of god , nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of , then other humane writings . iv. the authority of the holy scripture , for which it ought to be believed and obeyed , dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church , but wholly upon god ( who is truth it self ) the author thereof ; and therefore it is to be received , because it is the word of god . v. we may be moved , and induced by the testimony of the church , to an high and reverent esteem of the holy scripture . and the heavenliness of the matter , the efficacy of the doctrine , the maiesty of the style , the consent of all the parts , the scope of the whole , ( which is , to give all glory to god ) the full discovery it makes of the only way of mans salvation , the many other incomparable excellencies , and the intire perfection thereof , are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence it self to be the word of god ; yet notwithstanding , our full perswasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof , is from the inward work of the holy spirit , bearing witness by and with the word in our hearts . vi . the whole counsel of god concerning all things necessary for his own glory , mans salvation , faith , and life , is either expresly set down in scripture , or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from scripture ; unto which nothing at any time is to be added , whether by new revelations of the spirit , or traditions of men . nevertheless we acknowledge the inward illumination of the spirit of god to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the word : and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of god and government of the church , common to humane actions and societies , which are to be ordered by the light of nature and christian prudence , according to the general rules of the word , which are always to be observed . vii . all things in scripture are not alike plain in themselves , nor alike clear unto all : yet those things which are necessary to be known , believed , and observed for salvation , are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of scripture or other , that not only the learned , but the unlearned , in a due use of the ordinary means , may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them . viii . the old testament in hebrew ( which was the native language of the people of god of old ) and the new testament in greek ( which at the time of writing of it was most generally known to the nations ) being immediately inspired by god , and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages , are therefore authentical ; so as in all controversies of religion , the church is finally to appeal unto them . but because these original tongues are not known to all the people of god , who have right unto , and interest in the scriptures , and are commanded in the fear of god to read and search them ; therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come , that the word of god dwelling plentifully in all , they may worship him in an acceptable manner , and through patience and comfort of the scriptures may have hope . ix . the infallible rule of interpretation of scripture , is the scripture it self . and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any scripture ( which is not manifold , but one ) it must be searched and known by other places , that speak more clearly . x. the supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined , and all decrees of councils , opinions of ancient writers , doctrines of men and private spirits , are to be examined , and in whose sentence we are to rest , can be no other , but the holy scripture delivered by the spirit ; into which scripture so delivered , our faith is finally resolved . chap. ii. of god and of the holy trinity . there is but one onely living and true god ; who is infinite in being and perfection ▪ a most pure spirit , invisible , without body , parts , or passions , immutable , immense , eternal , incomprehensible , almighty , most wise , most holy , most free , most absolute , working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable , and most righteous will , for his own glory , most loving , gracious , merciful , long-suffering , abundant in goodness and truth , forgiving iniquity , transgression and sin , the rewarder of them that diligently seek him ; and withal , most just and terrible in his judgments , hating all sin , and who will by no means clear the guilty . ii. god hath all life , glory , goodness , blessedness , in , and of himself ; and is alone in , and unto himself , all-sufficient , not standing in need of any creatures , which he hath made , nor deriving any glory from them , but onely manifesting his own glory in , by , unto , and upon them : he is the alone fountain of all being , of whom , through whom , and to whom are all things ; and hath most soveraign dominion over them , to do by them , for them , or upon them , whatsoever himself pleaseth : in his sight all things are open and manifest , his knowledge is infinite , infallible , and independent upon the creature , so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain : he is most holy in all his counsels , in all his works , and in all his commands . to him is due from angels and men , and every other creature , whatsoever worship , service or obedience , as creatures , they owe unto the creator , and whatever he is further pleased to require of them . iii. in the unity of the god-head there be three persons , of one substance , power , and eternity , god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost : the father is of none , neither begotten , nor proceeding , the son is eternally begotten of the father ; the holy ghost eternally proceeding from the father and the son . which doctrine of the trinity is the foundation of all our communion with god , and comfortable dependence upon him . chap. iii. of gods eternal decree . god from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to passe : yet so , as thereby neither is god the author of sin , nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures , nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away , but rather established . ii. although god knowes whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions , yet hath he not decreed any thing , because he foresaw it as future , or as that which would come to passe upon such conditions . iii. by the decree of god for the manifestation of his glory , some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life , and others fore-ordained to everlasting death . iv. these angels and men thus predestinated , and fore-ordained , are particularly and unchangeably designed ; and their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished . v. those of mankind that are predestinated unto life , god , before the foundation of the world was laid , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will , hath chosen in christ unto everlasting glory , out of his meer free grace and love , without any sore-sight of faith or good works , or perseverance in either of them , or any other thing in the creature , as conditions or causes moving him thereunto , and all to the praise of his glorious grace . vi . as god hath appointed the elect unto glory , so hath he by the eternal and most free purpose of his will fore-ordained all the means thereunto : wherefore they who are elected , being faln in adam , are redeemed by christ , are effectually called unto faith in christ by his spirit working in due season , are justified , adopted , sanctified , and kept by his power , through faith , unto salvation . neither are any other redeemed by christ , or effectually called , justified , adopted , sanctified , and saved , but the elect onely . vii . the rest of mankind god was pleased , according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will , whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy , as he pleaseth , for the glory of his soveraign power over his creatures , to passe by and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin , to the praise of his glorious justice . viii . the doctrine of this high mystery of predestination , is to be handled with special prudence and care , that men attending the will of god revealed in his word , and yielding obedience thereunto , may from the certainty of their effectual vocation , be assured of their eternal election . so shall this ▪ doctrine afford matter of praise , reverence and admiration of god ; and of humility , diligence , and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel . chap. iv. of creation . it pleased god the father , son , and holy ghost , for the manifestation of the glory of his eternal power , wisdom , and goodness , in the beginning , to create or make of nothing the world , and all things therein , whether visible or invisible , in the space of six dayes , and all very good . ii. after god had made all other creatures , he created man , male and female , with reasonable and immortal souls , endued with knowledg , righteousness and true holiness , after his own image , having the law of god written in their hearts , and power to fulfill it ; and yet under a a possibility of transgressing , being left to the liberty of their own will , which was subject unto change . besides this law written in their hearts , they received a command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ; which whiles they kept , they were happy in their communion with god , and had dominion over the creatures . chap. v. of providence . god the great creator of all things , doth uphold , direct , dispose and govern all creatures , actions and things from the greatest even to the least , by his most wise and holy providence , according unto his infallible fore-knowledge , and the free and immutable counsel of his own will , to the praise of the glory of his wisdom , power , justice , goodness and mercy . ii. although in relation to the fore-knowledge and decree of god , the first cause , all things come to passe immutably , and infallibly ; yet by the same providence he ordereth them to fall out , according to the nature of second causes , either necessarily , freely , or contingently . iii. god in his ordinary providence maketh use of means , yet is free to work without , above , and against them at his pleasure . iv. the almighty power , unsearchable wisdom , and infinite goodness of god , so far manifest themselves in his providence , in that his determinate counsel , extendeth it self even to the first fall , and all other sins of angels and men ( and that not by a bare permission ) which also he most wisely and powerfully ▪ boundeth , and otherwise ordereth and governeth in a manifold dispensation to his own most holy ends ; yet so , as the sinfulnesse thereof proceedeth onely from the creature , and not from god , who being most holy and righteous , neither is , nor can be , the author or approver of sin . v. the most wise righteous and gracious god , doth oftentimes leave for a season his own children to manifold temptations , and the corruption of their own hearts , to chastise them for their former sins , or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption , and deceitfulness of their hearts , that they may be humbled ; and to raise them to a more close and constant dependance for their support upon himself , and to make them more watchfull against all future occasions of sin , and for sandry other just and holy ends . vi . as for those wicked and ungodly men , whom god as a righteous judge , for former sins , doth blind and harden , from them he not onely withholdeth his grace , whereby they might have been inlightned in their understandings , and wrought upon in their hearts ; but sometimes also withdraweth the gifts which they had , and exposeth them to such objects , as their corruption makes occasions of sin ; and withall gives them over to their own lusts , the temptations of the wo●ld ▪ and the power of satan ; whe●eby it comes to passe that they harden themselves ▪ even under those means which god useth for the softning of others . vii . as the providence of god doth in general each to all creatures , so after a most special manner it taketh care of his church , and disposeth all things to the good thereof . chap. vi . of the fall of man , of sin , and of the punishment thereof . god having made a covenant of works and life , thereupon , with our first parents , and all their posterity in them , they being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of satan , did wilfully transgress the law of their creation , and break the covenant in eating the forbidden fruit . ii. by this sin they , and we in them , fell from original righteousnesse and communion with god , and so became dead in sin , and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body . iii. they being the root , and by gods appointment standing in the room and stead of all mankind , the guilt of this sin was imputed , and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation . iv. from this original corruption , whereby we are utterly indisposed , disabled and made opposite to all good , and wholly enclined to all evil , do proceed all actual transgressions . v. this corruption of nature during this life , doth remain in those that are regenerated ; and although it be through christ pardoned and mortified , yet both it self and all the motions thereof are truly and properly sin . vi . every sin , both original and actual , being a transgression of the righteous law of god , and contrary thereunto , doth in its own nature bring guilt upon the sinner , whereby he is bound over to the wrath of god , and curse of the law , and so made subject to death , with all miseries spiritual , temporal , and eternal . chap. vii . of gods covenant with man . the distance between god and the creature is so great , that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their creator , yet they could never have attained the reward of life , but by some voluntary condescension on gods part , which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant . ii. the first covenant made with man , was a covenant of works , wherein life was promised to adam , and in him to his posterity , upon condition of perfect and personal obedience . iii. man by his fall having made himself uncapable of life by that covenant , the lord was pleased to make a second , commonly called the covenant of grace ; wherein he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by jesus christ , requiring of them faith in him that they may be saved , and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto life , his holy spirit , to make them willing and able to believe . iv. this covenant of grace is frequently set forth in the scripture by the name of a testament , in reference to the death of jesus christ the testator , and to the everlasting inheritance , with all things belonging to it , therein bequeathed . v. although this covenant hath been differently and variously administred in respect of ordinances and institutions in the time of the law , and since the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet for the substance and efficacy of it , to all its spiritual and saving ends , it is one and the same ; upon the account of which various dispensations , it is called the old and new testament . chap. viii . of christ the mediator . it pleased god , in his eternal purpose , to chuse and ordain the lord jesus his only begotten son , according to a covenant made between them both , to be the mediator between god and man ; the prophet , priest , and king , and head and saviour of his church , the heir of all things , and judge of the world ; unto whom he did from all eternity give a people to be his seed , and to be by him in time redeemed , called , justified , sancti●●ed , and glori●yed . ii. the son of god , the second person in the trinity , being very and eternal god of one substance , and equal with the father , did , when the fulness o● time was come , take upon him mans nature , with all the essential properties and common in●irmities thereof , yet without sin , being conceived by the power of the holy ghost , in the womb of the virgin mary of her substance : so that two whole perfect and distinct natures , the godhead and the manhood , were inseparably joyned together in one person , without conversion , composition , or confusion ; which person is very god and very man , yet one christ , the only mediator between god and man . iii. the lord jesus in his humane nature , thus united to the divine in the person of the son , was sanctified and anointed with the holy spirit above measure , having in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge , in whom it pleased the father that all fulnesse should dwell , to the end that being holy , harmlesse , undefiled , and full of grace and truth , he might be throughly furnished to execute the office of a mediator and surety ; which office he took not unto himself , but was thereunto called by his father , who also put all power and judgment into his hand , and gave him commandment to execute the same . iv. this office the lord jesus did most willingly undertake ; which that he might discharge , he was made under the law , and did perfectly fulfil it ; and under went the punishment due to us , which we should have born and suffered : being made sin and curse for us , enduring most grievous torments immediately from god in his soul , and most painful sufferings in his body , was crucified , and died , was buried , and remained under the power of death , yet saw no corruption ; on the third day he arose from the dead with the same body in which he suffered , with which also he ascended into heaven , and there sitteth at the right hand of his father , making intercession , and shall return to judge men and angels at the end of the world . v. the lord jesus by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself , which he through the eternal spirit once offered up unto god , hath fully satisfied the justice of god , and purchased not onely reconciliation , but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven , for all those whom the father hath given unto him . vi . although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by christ , till after his incarnation ; yet the vertue , efficacy and benefits thereof were communicated to the elect in all ages , successively from the beginning of the world , in and by those promises , types , and sacrifices , wherein he was revealed and signified to be the seed of the woman , which should bruise the serpent's head , and the lamb slain from the beginning of the world , being yesterday and to day the same , and for ever . vii . christ in the work of mediation acteth according to both natures , by each natures , doing that which is proper to it self ; yet by reason of the unity of the person , that which is proper to one nature , is sometimes in scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature . viii . to all those for whom christ hath purchased redemption , he doth certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same , making intercession for them ; and revealing unto them in and by the word , the mysteries of salvation , effectually perswading them by his spirit to believe and obey , and governing their hearts by his word and spirit , overcoming all their enemies by his almighty power and wisdom , and in such manner and ways as are most consonant to his wonderful and unsearchable dispensation . chap. ix . of free will . god hath end●ed the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice , that it is neither forced , nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to do good or evil . ii. man in his state of innocency had freedome and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to god ; but yet mutably , so that he might fall from it . iii. man by his fall into a state of sin , hath wholly lost all ability of will , to any spiritual good accompanying salvation ; so as a natural man being altogether averse from that good , and dead in sin , is not able by his own strength to convert himself , or to prepare himself thereunto . iv. when god converts a sinner , and translates him into the state of grace , he freeeth him from his natural bondage under sin , and by his grace alone inables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good ; yet so , as that by reason of his remaining-corruption , he doth not perfectly , nor only will that which is good , but doth also will that which is evil . v. the will of man is made perfectly , and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory onely . chap. x. of effectual calling . all those whom god hath predestin●ted unto life , and those only , he is pleased in his appointed and accepted time effectually to call by his word and spirit , out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature , to grace and salvation by jesus christ , inlightning their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of god , taking away their heart of stone , and giving unto them an heart of flesh , renewing their wills , and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good , and effectually drawing them to jesus christ ; yet so , as they come most freely , being made willing by his grace . ii. this effectual call is of gods free and special grace alone , not from any thing at all foreseen in man , who is altogether passive therein , untill being quickned and renewed by the holy spirit , he is thereby enabled to answer this call , and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it . iii. elect infants dying in infancy , are regenerated and saved by christ , who worketh when , and where , and how he pleaseth : so also are all other elect persons who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the ministery of the word . iv. others not elected , although they may be called by the ministry of the word , and may have some common operations of the spirit ; yet not being effectual drawn by the father , they neither do nor can come unto christ , and therefore cannot be saved ; much less can men not professing the christian religion , be saved in any other way whatsoever , be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature , and the law of that religion they do profess : and to assert and maintain that they may , is very pernicious , and to be detested . chap. xi . of justification . those whom god effectually calleth , he also freely justifieth , not by infusing righteousnesse into them , but by pardoning their sins , and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous , not for any thing wrought in them , or done by them , but for christs sake alone ; nor by imputing faith it self , the act of believing , or any other evangelical obedience to them , as their righteousness , but by imputing christs active obedience unto the whole law , and passive obedience in his death , for their whole and sole righteousness , they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith ; which faith they have not of themselves , it is the gift of god . ii. faith thus receiving and resting on christ , and his righteousness , is the alone instrument of justification ; yet it is not alone in the person justified , but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces , and is no dead faith , but worketh by love . iii. christ by his obedience and death did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified , and did by the sacrifice of himself , in the blood of his cross , undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them , make a proper , real , and full satisfaction to gods justice in their behalf : yet , in as much as he was given by the father for them , and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead , and both freely , not for any thing in them , their justification is only of free grace , that both the exact justice and rich grace of god might be glorified in the justification of sinners . iv. god did from all eternity decree to justifie all the elect , and christ did in the fulness of time dye for their sins , and rise again for their justification : nevertheless , they are not justified personally , until the holy spirit doth in due time actually apply christ unto them . v. god doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified ; and although they can never fall from the state of justification , yet they may by their sins fall under gods fatherly displeasure : and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them , until they humble themselves , coness their sins , beg pardon , and renew their faith and repentance . vi . the justification of believers under the old testament , was in all these respects one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament . chap. xii . of adoption . all those that are justified , god vouchsafeth in and for his only son jesus christ , to make partakers of the grace of adoption , by which they are taken into the number , and enjoy the liberties and priviledges of the children of god , have his name put upon them , receive the spirit of adoption , have accesse to the throne of grace with boldness , are enabled to cry , abba , father , are pitied , protected , provided for , and chastened by him as by a father , yet never cast off , but sealed to the day of redemption , and inherit the promises as heirs of everlasting salvation . chap. xiii . of sanctification . they that are united to christ , effectually called and regenerated , having a new heart and a new spirit created in them , through the vertue of christs death and resurrection , are also further sanctified really and personally through the same vertue , by his word and spirit dwelling in them ; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed , and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakned , and mortified , and they more and more quickned , and strengthned in all saving graces , to the practice of all true holiness , without which no man shall see the lord . ii. this sanctification is throughout in the whole man , yet imperfect in this life , there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part , whence ariseth a continual and irreconcileable war , the flesh lusting against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh . iii. in which war , although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail , yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying spirit of christ , the regenerate part doth overcome , and so the saints grow in grace , perfecting holinesse in the fear of god . chap. xiv . of saving faith . the grace of faith , whereby the elect are inabled to believe to the saving of their souls , is the work of the spirit of christ in their hearts , and is ordinarily wrought by the ministery of the word ; by which also , and by the administration of the seals , prayer , and other means , it is increased and strengthened . ii. by this faith a christian believeth to be true whatsoever is revealed in the word , for the authority of god himself speaking therein , and acteth differently upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth , yielding obedience to the commands , trembling at the threatnings , and embracing the promises of god for this life , and that which is to come . but the principal acts of saving faith are , accepting , receiving , and resting upon christ alone , for justification , sanctification , and eternal life , by vertue of the covenant of grace . iii. this faith , although it be different in degrees , and may be weak or strong , yet it is in the least degree of it different in the kind or nature of it ( as is all other saving grace ) from the faith and common grace of temporary believers ; and therefore , though it may be many times assailed and weakened , yet it gets the victory , growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through christ , who is both the author and finisher of our faith . chap. xv . of repentance unto life and salvation . such of the elect as are converted at riper years , having sometime lived in the state of nature , and therein served divers lusts and pleasures , god in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life . ii. whereas there is none that doth good , and sinneth not , and the best of men may through the power and deceitfulness of their corruptions dwelling in them , with the prevalency of temptation , fall into great sins and provocations ; god hath in the covenant of grace mercifully provided , that believers so sinning and falling , be renewed through repentance unto salvation . iii. this saving repentance is an evangelical grace , whereby a person being by the holy ghost made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin , doth by faith in christ humble himself for it with godly sorrow , detestation of it , and self-abhorrency , praying for pardon and strength of grace , with a purpose and endeavour by supplies of the spirit , to walk before god unto all well-pleasing in all things . iv. as repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives , upon the account of the body of death , and the motions thereof ; so it is every mans duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly . v. such is the provision which god hath made through christ in the covenant of grace , for the preservation of believers unto salvation , that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation ; yet here is no sin so great , that it shall bring damnation on them who truly repent ; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary . chap. xvi . of good works . good works are only such as god hath commanded in his holy word , and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men our of blind zeal , or upon any pretence of good intentions . ii. these good works done in obedience to gods commandments , are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith , and by them believers manifest their thankfulnesse , strengthen their assurance , edifie their brethren , adorn the profession of the gospel , stop the mouths of the adversaries , and glorifie god , whose workmanship they are , created in in christ jesus thereunto , that having their fruit unto holiness , they may have the end eternal life . iii. their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves , but wholly from the spirit of christ : and that they may be enabled thereunto , besides the graces they have already received , there is required an actual influence of the same holy spirit , to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure ; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent , as if they were not bound to perform any duty , unless upon a special motion of the spirit , but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of god that is in them . iv. they who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life , are so far from being able to superogate , and to do more then god requires , as that they fall short of much , which in duty they are bound to do . v. we cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin , or eternal life at the hand of god , by reason of the great disproportion that is between them , and the glory to come ; and the infinite distance that is between us , and god , whom by them we can neither profit , nor satisfie for the debt of our former sins ; but when we have done all we can , we have done but our duty , and are unprofitable servants : and because as they are good , they proceed from his spirit ; and as they are wrought by us , they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection , that they cannot endure the severity of gods judgement . vi . yet notwithstanding , the persons of believers being accepted through christ , their good works also are accepted in him ; not as though they were in this life wholly unblameable and unreproveable in gods sight , but that he looking upon them in his son , is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere , although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections . vii . works done by unregenerate men , although for the matter of them they may be things which god commands , and of good use both to themselves and to others : yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith , nor are done in a right manner , according to the word , nor to a right end , the glory of god ; they are therefore sinful , and cannot please god , nor make a man meet to receive grace from god ; and yet their neglect of them is more sinful , and displeasing unto cod. chap. xvii . of the perseverance of the saints . they whom god hath accepted in his beloved , effectually called and sanctified by his spirit , can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace , but shall certainly persevere therein to the end , and be eternally saved . ii. this perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free-will , but upon the immutability of the decree of election , from the free and unchangeable love of god the father , upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of jesus christ , and union with him , the oath of god , the abiding of his spirit , and of the seed of god within them , and the nature of the covenant of grace , from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof . iii. and though they may , through the temptation of satan and of the world , the prevalency of corruption remaining in them , and the neglect of the means of their preservation , fall into grievous sins , and for a time continue therein , whereby they incur gods displeasure , and grieve his holy spirit , come to have their graces and comforts impaired , have their hearts hardned , and their consciences wounded , hurt and scandalize others , and bring temporal judgments upon themselves ; yet they are , and shall be , kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation . chap. xviii . of the assurance of grace and salvation . although temporary believers , and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes , and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of god , and state of salvation , which hope of theirs shall perish ; yet such as truly believe in the lord jesus , and love him in sincerity , endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before him , may in this life be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace , and may rejoyce in the hope of the glory of god ; which hope shall never make them ashamed . ii. this certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable perswasion , grounded upon a fallible hope , but an infallible assurance of faith , founded on the blood and righteousnesse of christ , revealed in the gospel , and also upon the inward evidence of those graces unto which promises are made , and on the immediate witnesse of the spirit , testifying our adoption , and as a fruit thereof , leaving the heart more humble and holy . iii. this infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith , but that a true believer may wait long , and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it ; yet being inabled by the spirit to know the things which are freely given him of god , he may without extraordinary revelation , in the right use of ordinary means attain thereunto : and therefore it is the duty of every one , to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure , that thereby his heart may be inlarged in peace and joy in the holy ghost , in love and thankfulnesse to god , and in strength and chearfulnesse in the duties of obedience , the proper fruits of this assurance ; so far is it from inclining men to loosenesse . iv. true believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers wayes shaken , diminished , and intermitted ; as by negligence in preserving of it , by falling into some special sin , which woundeth the conscience , and grieveth the spirit , by some sudden or vehement temptation , by gods withdrawing the light of his countenance , suffering even such as fear him to walk in darknesse , and to have no light ; yet are they neither utterly destitute of that seed of god , and life of faith , that love of christ and the brethren , that sincerity of heart , and conscience of duty , out of which , by the operation of the spirit , this assurance may in due time be revived ; and by the which in the mean time , they are supported from utter despair . chap. xix . of the law of god . god gave to adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart , and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , as a covenant of works , by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal , entire , exact , and perpetual obedience ; promised life upon the fulfilling , and threatned death upon the breach of it , and indued him with power and ability to keep it . ii. this law so written in the heart , continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall of man , and was delivered by god upon mount sinai in ten commandments , and written in two tables ; the four first commandments containing our duty towards god , and the other six our duty to man . iii. beside this law commonly called moral , god was pleased to give to the people of israel ceremonial laws , containing several typical ordinances , partly of worship , prefiguring christ , his graces , actions , sufferings and benefits ; and partly holding forth divers instructions o● moral duties : all which ceremonial laws being appointed onely to the time of reformation , are by jesus christ the true messiah and only law-giver , who was furnished with power from the father for that end , abrogated and taken away . iv. to them also he gave sundry judicial laws , which expired together with the state of that people , not obliging any now by vertue of that institution , their general equity onely being still of moral use . v. the moral law doth for ever bind all , as well justified persons as others , to the obedience thereof ; and that not onely in regard of the matter contained in it , but also in respect of the authority of god the creator , who gave it : neither doth christ in the gospel any way dissolve , but much strengthen this obligation . vi . although true believers be not under the law , as a covenant of works , to be thereby justified or condemned ; yet it is of great use to them as well as to others , in that , as a rule of life , inform ng them of the will of god , and their duty , it directs and binds them to walk accordingly , discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature , hearts , & lives , so as examining themselves thereby , they may come to further conviction of humiliation for , and hatred against sin , together with a clearer sight of the need they have of christ , & the perfection of his obedience . it is likewise of use to the regenerate , to restrain their corruptions , in that it forbids sin , and the threatnings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve , and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them , although freed from the curse thereof threatned in the law . the promises of it in like manner shew them god's approbation of obedience , and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof , although not as due to them by the law , as a covenant of works ; so as a mans doing good , and refraining from evil , because the law encourageth to the one , and deterreth from the other , is no evidence of his being under the law , and not under grace . vii . neither are the fore-mentioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel ; but do sweetly comply with it , the spirit of christ subduing and inabling the will of man to do that freely and chearfully , which the will of god revealed in the law required to be done . chap. xxs of the gospel , and of the extent of the grace thereof . the covenant of works being broken by sin , and made unprofitable unto life , god was pleased to give unto the elect the promise of christ , the seed of the woman , as the means of calling them , and begetting in them faith and repentance : in this promise , the gospel , as to the substance of it , was revealed , and was therein effectual for the conversion and salvation of sinners . ii. this promise of christ , and salvation by him , is revealed onely in and by the word of god ; neither do the works of creation or providence , with the light of nature , make discovery of christ , or of grace by him , so much as in a general or obscure way ; much less that men destitute of the revelation of him by the promise or gospel , should be inabled thereby to attain saving faith or repentance . iii. the revelation of the gospel unto sinners made in divers times , and by sundry parts , with the addition of promises and precepts for the obedience required therein , as to the nations and persons to whom it is granted , is meerly of the soveraign will and good pleasure of god , not being annexed by vertue of any promise to the due improvement of mens natural abilities , by vertue of common light received without it , which none ever did make , or can so do : and therefore in all ages the preaching of the gospel hath been granted unto persons and nations , as to the extent or straitning of it , in great variety , according to the counsel of the will of god . iv. although the gospel be the onely outward means of revealing christ and saving grace , and is as such abundantly sufficient thereunto ; yet that men who are dead in trespasses , may be born again , quickned , or regenerated , there is moreover necessary an effectual , irresistible work of the holy ghost upon the whole soul , for the producing in them a new spiritual life , without which no other means are sufficient for their conversion unto god . chap. xxi . of christian liberty , and liberty of conscience . the liberty which christ hath purchased for believers under the gospel , consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin , the condemning wrath of god , the rigour and curse of the law , and in their being delivered from this present evil world , bondage to satan , and dominion of sin , from the evil of afflictions , the fear and sting of death , the victory of the grave , and everlasting damnation ; as also in their free access to god , and their yielding obedience unto him , not out of slavish fear , but a child-like-love , and willing mind : all which were common also to believers under the law , for the substance of them ; but under the new testament the liberty of christians is further inlarged in their freedom from the yoake of the ceremonial law , the whole legal administration of the covenant of grace , to which the jewish church was subjected , and in greater boldness of access to the throne of grace , and in fuller communications of the free spirit of god , then believers under the law did ordinarily partake of . ii. god alone is lord of the conscience , and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men , which are in any thing contrary to his word , or not contained in it ; so that to believe such doctrines , or to obey such commands out of conscience , is to betray true liberty of conscience ; and the requiring of an implicit faith , and an absolute and blind obedience , is to destroy liberty of conscience , and reason also . iii. they who upon pretence of christian liberty , do practise any sin , or cherish any lust , as they do thereby pervert the main design of the grace of the gospel to their own destruction ; so they wholly destroy the end of christian liberty , which is , that being delivered out of the hands of our enemies , we might serve the lord without fear , in holinesse and righteousnesse before him all the dayes of our life . chap. xxii . of religious worship , and the sabhath-day . the light of nature sheweth that there is a god , who hath lordship and soveraignty over all , is just , good , and doth good unto all , and is therefore to be feared , loved , praised , called upon , trusted in , and served with all the heart , and all the soul , and with all the might : but the acceptable way of worshipping the true god is instituted by himself , and so limited by his own revealed will , that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men , or the suggestions of satan , under any visible representations , or any other way prescribed in the holy scripture . ii. religious worship is to be given to god the father , son , and holy ghost , and to him alone ; not to angels , saints , or any other creatures ; and since the fall , not without a mediatour , nor in the mediation of any other but of christ alone . iii. prayer with thanksgiving , being one special part of natural worship , is by god required of all men ; but that it may be accepted , it is to be made in the name of the son , by the help of the spirit , according to his will , with understanding , reverence , humility , fervency , faith , love , and perseverance ; and when with others in a known tongue . iv. prayer is to be made for things lawful , and for all sorts of men living , or that shall live hereafter , but not for the dead , nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death . v. the reading of the scriptures , preaching , and hearing the word of god , singing of psalms , as also the administration of baptism and the lords supper , are all parts of religious worship of god , to be performed in obedience unto god with understanding , faith , reverence , and godly fear : solemn humiliations , with fastings and thanksgiving upon special occasions , are in their several times and seasons to be used in a holy and religious manner . vi . neither prayer nor any other part of religious worship , is now under the gospel either tyed unto , or made more acceptable by any place , in which it is performed , or towards which it is directed ; but god is to be worshipped every where in spirit and in truth , as in private families daily , and in secret each one by himself , so more solemnly in the publique assemblies , which are not carelesly nor wilfully to be neglected , or forsaken , when god by his word or providence calleth thereunto . vii . as it is of the law of nature , that in general a proportion of time by gods appointment be set apart for the worship of god ; so by his word in a positive , moral , and perpetual commandment , binding all men in all ages , he hath particularly appointed one day in seaven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him , which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of christ , was the last day of the week , and from the resurrection of christ was changed into the first day of the week , which in scripture , is called the lords day , and is to be continued to the end of the world as the christian sabbath , the observation of the last day of the week being abolished . viii . this sabbath is then kept holy unto the lord , when men after a due preparing of their hearts , and ordering their common affaires before hand , do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works , words , and thoughts about their worldly imployments and recreations , but also are taken up the whole time in the publique and private exercisesof his worship , and in the duties of necessity and mercy . chap. xxiii . of lawful oaths and vows . a lawful oath is a part of religious worship , wherein the person swearing in truth , righteousness , and judgment , solemnly calleth god to witness what he afferteth or promiseth , and to judge him according to the truth or falshood of what he sweareth . ii. the name of god onely is that by which men ought to swear ; and therein it is to be used with all holy fear and reverence : therefore to swear vainly , or rashly , by that glorious or dreadful name , or to sweat at all by any other thing , is sinful and to be abhorred : yet as in matters of weight and moment an oath is warranted by the word of god under the new testament , as well as under the old ; so a lawful oath , being imposed by lawful authority in such matters , ought to be taken . iii. whosoever taketh an oath warranted by the word of god , ought duly to consider the weightiness of so solemn an act , and therein to avouch nothing but what he is fully perswaded is the truth : neither may any man bind himself by oath to any thing , but what is good and just , and what he believeth so to be , and what he is able and resolved to perform . yet it is a sin to refuse an oath touching any thing that is good and just , being lawfully imposed by authority . iv. an oath is to be taken in the plain and common sense of the words , without equivocation , or mental reservation : it cannot oblige to sin , but in any thing not sinful , being taken it binds to performance , although to a mans own hurt ; nor is it to be violated , although made to hereticks or infidels . v. a vow , which is not to be made to any creature , but god alone , is of the like nature with a promissory oath , and ought to be made with the like religious care , and to be performed with the like faithfulness . vi . popish monastical vows of perpetual single life , professed poverty , and regular obedience , are so far from being degrees of higher perfection , that they are superstitious and sinful snares , in which no christian may intangle himself . chap. xxiv . of the civil magistrate . god the supreme lord and king of all the world , hath ordained civil magistrates to be under him , over the people for his own glory and the publique good : and to this end hath armed them with the power of the sword , for the defence and incouragement of them that do good ; and for the punishment of evil-doers . ii. it is lawful for christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate , when called thereunto : in the management whereof , as they ought specially to maintain justice and peace , according to the wholsome laws of each common-wealth ; so for that end they may lawfully now under the new testament wage war upon just and necessary occasion . iii. although the magistrate is bound to incourage , promote , and protect the professors and profession of the gospel , and to manage and order civil administrations in a due subserviency to the interest of christ in the world , and to that end to take care that men of coroupt minds and conversations do not licentiously publish and divulge blasphemy and errors , in their own nature subverting the faith , and inevitably destroying the souls of them that receive them : yet in such differences about the doctrines of the gospel , or ways of the worship of god , as may befal men exercising a good conscience , manifesting it in their conversation , and holding the foundation , not disturbing others in their ways or worship that differ from them ; there is no warrant for the magistrate under the gospel to abridge them of their liberty . iv. it is the duty of people to pray for magistrates , to honor their persons , to pay them tribute and other dues , to obey their lawful commands , and to be subject to their authority for conscience sake . infidelity , or difference in religion , doth not make void the magistrates just and legal authority , nor free the people from their obedience to him : from which , ecclesiastical persons are not exempted , much lesse hath the pope any power or jurisdiction over them in their dominions , or over any of their people , and least of all to deprive them of their dominions , or lives , if he shall judge them to be hereticks , or upon any other pretence whatsoever . chap. xxv . of marriage . marriage is to be between one man and one woman : neither is it lawful for any man to have more then one wife , nor for any woman to have more then one husband at the same time . ii. marriage was ordained for the mutual help of husband and wife , for the increase of mankind with a legitimate issue , and of the church with an holy seed , and for preventing of uncleanness . iii. it is lawful for all sorts of people to marry , who are able with judgment to give their consent . yet it is the duty of christians to marry in the lord , and therefore such as profess the true reformed religion , should not marry with infidels , papists , or other idolaters : neither should such as are godly , be unequally yoaked by marrying with such as are wicked in their life , or maintain damnable heresy . vi . marriage ought not to be within the degrees of consanguinity , or affinity forbidden in the word ; nor can such incestuous marriages ever be made lawful by any law of man , or consent of parties , so as those persons may live together as man and wife . chap. xxvi . of the church . the catholique or universal church , which is invisible , consists of the whole number of the elect , that have been , are , or shall be gathered into one under christ , the head thereof ; and is the spouse , the body , the fulness of him that filleth all in all . ii. the whole body of men throughout the world , professing the faith of the gospel , and obedience unto god by christ according unto it , not destroying their own profession by any errors everting the foundation ▪ or unholiness of conversation , are , and may be called the visible catholique church of christ , although as such it is not intrusted with the administration of any ordinances , or have any offices to rule or govern in , or over the whole body . iii. the purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error , and some have so degenerated as to become no churches of christ , but synagogues of satan : neverthelesse christ always hath had , and ever shall have a visible kingdom in this world , to the end thereof , of such as believe in him , and make profession of his name . iv. there is no other head of the church but the lord jesus christ ; nor can the pope of rome in any sence be head thereof : but it is that antichrist , that man of sin , and son of perdition , that exalteth himself in the church against christ , and all that is called god , whom the lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming . v. as the lord is in care and love towards his church , hath in his infinite wise providence exercised it with great variety in all ages , for the good of them that love him , and his own glory : so according to his promise , we expect that in the latter days , antichrist being destroyed , the jews called , and the adversaries of the kingdom of his dear son broken , the churches of christ being inlarged , and edified through a free and plentiful communication of light and grace , shall enjoy in this world a more quiet , peaceable and glorious condition then they have enjoyed . chap. xxvii . of the communion of saints . all saints that are united to jesus christ their head , by his spirit and faith , although they are not made thereby one person with him , have fellowship in graces , sufferings , death , resurrection and glory : and being united to one another in love , they have communion in each others gifts and grace , and are obliged to the performance of such duties , publique and private , as do conduce to their mutuall good , both in the inward and outward man . ii. all saints are bound to maintain an holy fellowship and communion in the worship of god , and in performing such other spiritual services as tend to their mutual edification ; as also in relieving each other in outward things , according to their several abilities and necessities : which communion , though especially to be exercised by them in the relations wherein they stand , whether in families or churches , yet as god offereth opportunity , is to be extended unto all those who in every place call upon the name of the lord jesus . chap. xxviii . of the sacraments . sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace , immediately instituted by christ , to represent him and his benefits , and to confirm our interest in him , and solemnly to engage us to the service of god in christ , according to his word . ii. there is in every sacrament a spiritual relation , or sacramental union between the signe and the thing signified ; whence it comes to pass ▪ that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other . iii. the grace which is exhibited in or by the sacraments rightly used , is not conferred by any power in them , neither doth the efficacy of a sacrament depend upon the piety or intention of him that doth administer it , but upon the work of the spirit , and the word of institution , which contains together with a precept authorizing the use thereof , a promise of benefit to worthy receivers . iv. there be onely two sacraments ordained by christ our lord in the gospel , that is to say , baptism and the lords supper ; neither of which may be dispensed by any but by a minister of the word lawfully called . v. the sacraments of the old testament , in regard of the spiritual things thereby signified and exhibited , were for substance the same with those of the new . chap. xxix . of baptism . baptism is a sacrament of the new testament , ordained by jesus christ to be unto the party baptized a sign and seal of the covenant of graee , of his ingraffing into christ , of regeneration , of remission of sins , and of his giving up unto god through jesus christ to walk in newnesse of life ; which ordinance is by christs own appointment to be continued in his church untill the end of the world . ii. the outward element to be used in this ordinance , is water , wherewith the party is to be baptized in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , by a minister of the gospel lawfully called . iii. dipping of the person into the water is not necessary ; but baptism is rightly administred by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person . iv. not onely those that do actually professe faith in , and obedience unto christ , but also the infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized , and those onely . v. although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance , yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it , as that no person can be regenerated or saved without it ; or that all that are baptized , are undoubtedly regenerated . vi . the efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administred , yet notwithstanding , by the right use of this ordinance , the grace promised is not onely offered , but really exhibited and conferred by the holy ghost to such ( whether of age , or infants ) as that grace belongeth unto , according to the counsel of gods own will in his appointed time . vii . baptism is but once to be administred to any person . chap. xxx . of the lords supper . our lord jesus in the night wherein he was betrayed , instituted the sacrament of his body and blood , called the lords supper , to be observed in his churches unto the end of the world , for the perpetual remembrance , and shewing forth of the sacrifice of himself ▪ in his death , the sealing of all benefits thereof unto true believers , their spiritual nourishment , and growth in him , their further ingagement in and to all duties which they owe unto him , and to be a bond and pledge of their communion with him , and with each other . ii. in this sacrament christ is not offered up to his father , nor any reall sacrifice made at all for remission of the sins of the quick or dead , but onely a memorial of that one offering up of himself by himself upon the crosse once for all , and a spiritual oblation of all possible praise unto god for the same ; so that the popish sacrifice of the mass ( as they call it ) is most abominable , injurious to christs own onely sacrifice , the alone propitiation for all the sins of the elect. iii. the lord jesus hath in this ordinance appointed his ministers to pray and blesse the elements of bread and wine , and thereby to set them apart from a common to an holy use , and to take and break the bread , to take the cup , and ( they communicating also themselves ) to give both to the communicants , but to none who are not then present in the congregation . iv. private masses , or receiving the sacrament by a priest , or any other alone , as likewise the denial of the cup to the people , worshipping the elements , the lifting them up , or carrying them about for adoration , and the reserving them for any pretended religious use , are all contrary to the nature of this sacrament , and to the institution of christ . v. the outward elements in this sacrament duly set apart to the uses ordained by christ , have such relation to him crucified , as that truly , yet sacramentally onely , they are sometimes called by the name of the things they represent , to wit , the body and blood of christ ; albeit in substance and nature they still remain truly and onely bread and wine as they were before . vi . that doctrine which maintains a change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of christs body and blood ( commonly called transubstantiation ) by consecration of a priest , or by any other way , is repugnant not to scripture alone , but even to common sense and reason , overthroweth the nature of the sacrament , and hath been , and is , the cause of manifold superstitions , yea of gross idolatries . vii . worthy receivers outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this sacrament , do then also inwardly by faith , really and indeed , yet not carnally and corporally , but spiritually , receive and feed upon christ crucified , and all benefits of his death ; the body and blood of christ being then not corporally or carnally in , with , or under the bread or wine ; yet as really , but spiritually present to the faith of believers in that ordinance , as the elements themselves are to their outward senses . viii . all ignorant and ungodly persons , as they are unfit to enjoy communion with christ , so are they unworthy of the lords table , and cannot without great sin against him , whilest they remain such , partake of these holy mysteries , or be admitted thereunto ; yea , whosoever shall receive unworthily , are guilty of the body and blood of the lord , eating and drinking judgement to themselves . chap. xxxi . of the state of man after death , and of the resurrection of the deaed . the bodies of men after death return to dust , and see corruption , but their souls ( which neither die nor sleep ) having an immortal subsistence , immediately return to god who gave them . the souls of the righteous being then made perfect in holinesse , are received into the highest heavens , where they behold the face of god in light and glo y , waiting for the full redemption of their bodies : and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell , where they remain in torment and utter darknesse , reserved to the judgment of the great day : besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies , the scripture acknowledgeth none . ii. at the last day such as are found alive shall not die , but be changed , and all the dead shall be raised up with the self-same bodies , and none other , although with different qualities , which shall be united again to their souls for ever . iii. the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of christ be raised to dishonour ; the bodies of the just by his spirit unto honour , and be made conformable to his own glorious body . chap. xxxii . of the last judgment . god hath appointed a day wherein he will judge the world in righteousnesse by jesus christ ▪ to whom all power and judgment is given of the father ; in which day not onely the apostate angels shall be judged , but likewise all persons that have lived upon earth , shall appear before the tribunal of christ , to give an account of their thoughts , words , and deeds , and to receive according to what they have done in the body , whether good or evil . ii. the end of gods appointing this day , is for the manifestation of the glory of his mercy in the eternal salvation of the elect , and of his justice in the damnation of the reprobate , who are wicked and disobedient : for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life , and receive the fulnesse of joy and glory , with everlasting reward in the presence of the lord ; but the wicked who know not god , and obey not the gospel of jesus christ , shall be cast into eternal torments , and be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power . iii. as christ would have us to be certainly perswaded that there shall be a judgement , both to deter all men from sin , and for the greater consolation of the godly in their adversity ; so will he have that day unknown to men , that they may shake off all carnal security , and be alwayes watchful , because they know not at what hour the lord will come ; and may be ever prepared to say , come lord jesus , come quickly . amen . of the institvtion of churches ▪ and the order appointed in them by jesus christ . i. by the appointment of the father , all power for the calling , institution , order , or government of the church , is invested , in a supreme ▪ and soveraign manner , in the lord jesus christ , as king and head thereof . ii. in the execution of this power wherewith he is so entrusted , the lord jesus calleth out of the world unto communion with himself , those that are given unto him by his father , that they may walk before him in all the wayes of obedience , which he prescribeth to them in his word . iii. those thus called ( through the ministery the word by his spirit ) he commandeth to walk together in particular societies or churches , for their mutual edification , and the due performance of that publique worship , which he requireth of them in this world . iv. to each of these churches thus gathered , according unto his mind declared in his word , he hath given all that power and authority , which is any way needfull , for their carrying on that order in worship and discipline , which he hath instituted for them to observe , with commands and rules , for the due and right exerting and executing of that power . v. these particular churches thus appointed by the authority of christ , and intrusted with power from him for the ends before expressed , are each of them as unto those ends , the seat of that power which he is pleased to communicate to his saints or subjects in this world , so that as such they receive it immediatly from himsel● vi . besides these particular churches , there is not instituted by christ any church more extensive or ca holique entrusted with power for the administration of his ordinances , or the execution of any authority in his name . vii . a particular church gathered and compleated according to the minde of christ , consists of officers and members : the lord christ having given to his called ones ( united according to his appointment in church-order ) liberty and power to choose persons fitted by the holy ghost for that purpose , to be over them , and to minister to them in the lord . viii . the members of these churches are saints by calling , visibly manifesting and evidencing ( in and by their profession and walking ) their obedience unto that call of christ , who being further known to each other by their confession of the faith wrought in them by the power of god , declared by themselves , or otherwise manifested , do willingly consent to walk together , according to the appointment of christ , giving up themselves to the lord , and to one another by the will of god , in professed subjection to the ordinances of the gospel . ix . the officers appointed by christ to be chosen and set apart by the church so called , and gathered for the peculiar administration of ordinances , and execution of power or duty which he intrusts them with , or calls them to , to be continued to the end of the world , are pastors , teachers , elders and deacons . x. churches thus gathered and assembling for the worship of god ▪ are thereby visible and publique , and their assemblies ( in what place soever they are , according as they have liberty or opportunity ) are therefore church or publique assemblies . xi . the way appointed by christ for the calling of any person , fitted and gifted by the holy ghost , unto the office of pastor , teacher , or elder , in a church , is , that he be chosen thereunto by the common suffrage of the church it self , and solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer , with imposition of hands of the eldership of that church , if there be any before constituted therein : and of a deacon , that he be chosen by the like suffrage , and set apart by prayer , and the like imposition of hands . xii . the essence of this call of a pastor , teacher , or elder unto office , consists in the election of the church , together with his acceptation of it , and separation by fasting and prayer : and these who are so chosen , though not set apart by imposition of hands , are rightly constituted ministers of jesus christ , in whose name and authority they exercise the ministery to them so committed . the calling of deacons consisteth in the like election and acceptation , with separation by prayer . xiii . although it be incumbent on the pastors and teachers of the churches to be instant in preaching the word , by way of office ; yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them , but that others also gifted and fitted by the holy ghost for it , and approved ( being by lawful ways and means in the providence of god called thereunto ) may publiquely , ordinarily , and constantly perform it ; so that they give themselves up thereunto , xiv . however , they who are ingaged in the work of publique preaching , and enjoy the publique maintenance upon that account , are not thereby obliged to dispense the seals to any other then such as ( being saints by calling , and gathered according to the order of the gospel ) they stand related to , as pastors or teachers ; yet ought they not to neglect others living within their parochial bounds , but besides their constant publique preaching to them , they ought to enquire after their profitting by the word , instructing them in , and pressing upon them ( whether young or old ) the great doctrines of the gospel , even personally , and particularly , so far as their sterngth and time will admit . xv . ordination alone without the election or precedent consent of the church , by those who formerly have been ordained by vertue of that power they have received by their ordination , doth not constitute any person a church-officer , or communicate office-power unto him . xvi . a church furnished with officers ( according to the mind of christ ) hath full power to administer all his ordinances ; and where there is want of any one or more officers required , that officer , or those which are in the church , may administer all the ordinances proper to their particular duty and offices ; but where there are no teaching officers , none may administer the seals , nor can the church authorize any so to do . xvii . in the carrying on of church-administrations , no person ought to be added to the church , but by the consent of the church it self ; that so love ( without dissimulation ) may be preserved between all the members thereof . xviii . whereas the lord jesus christ hath appointed and instituted as a means of edification , that those who walk not according to the rules and laws appointed by him ( in respect of faith and life , so that just offence doth arise to the church thereby ) be censured in his name and authority : every church hath power it it self to exercise and execute all those censures appointed by him , in the way and order prescribed in the gospel . xix . the censures so appointed by christ , are admonition and excommunication : and whereas some offences are or may be known onely to some , it is appointed by christ , that those to whom they are so known , do first admonish the offender in private ; ( in publique offences where any sin , before all ) and in case of non-amendment upon private admonition , the offence being related to the church , and the offender not manifesting his repentance , he is to be duly admonished in the name of christ by the whole church , by the ministery of the elders of the church ; and if this censure prevail not for his repentance , then he is to be cast out by excommun cation with the consent of the church . xx . as all believers are bound to joyn themselves to particular churches , when and where they have opportunity so to do ; so none are to be admitted unto the priviledges of the churches , who do not submit themselves to the rule of christ in the censures for the government of them . xxi . this being the way prescribed by christ in case of offence , no church-members upon any offences taken by them , having performed their duty required of them in this matter , ought to disturb any church-order , or absent themselves from the publique assemblies , or the administrat on of any ordinances upon that pretence , butto wait upon christ in the further proceeding of the church . xxii . the power of censures being seating by christ in a particular church , is to be exercised onely towards particular members of each church respectively as such ; and there is no power given by him unto any synods or ecclesiastical assemblies to excommunicate , or by their publique edicts to threaten excommunication , or other church censures against churches , magistrates , or their people upon any account , no man being obnoxious to that censure , but upon his personal miscarriage , as a member of a particular church . xxiii . although the church is a society of men , assembling for the celebration of the ordinances according to the appointment of christ , yet every society assembling for that end or purpose , upon the account of cohabitation within any civil precincts or bounds is not thereby constituted a church , seeing there may be wanting among them , what is essentially required thereunto ; and therefore a believer living with others in such a precinct , may joyn himself with any church for his edification . xxiv . for the avoiding of differences that may otherwise arise , for the greater solemnity in the celebration of the ordinances of christ , and the opening a way for the larger usefulness of the gifts and graces of the holy ghost ; saints living in one city or town , or within such distances as that they may conveniently assemble for divine worship , ought rather to joyn in one church for their mutual strengthening and edification , then to set up many distinct societies . xxv . as all churches , and all the members of them are bound to pray continually for the good or prosperity of all the churches of christ in all places , and upon all occasions , to further it ; ( every one within the bounds of their places and callings , in the exercise of their gifts and graces ) : so the churches themselves ( when planted by the providence of god , so as they may have opportunity and advantage for it ) ought to hold communion amongst themselves for their peace , increase of love , and mutual edification . xxvi . in cases of difficulties or differences , either in point of doctrine or in administrations , wherein either the churches in general are concerned , or any one church in their peace , union , and edification , or any member or members of any church are injured in , or by , any proceeding in censures not agreeable to truth and order : it is according to the mind of christ , that many churches holding communion together , do by their messengers meet in a synod or council , to consider and give their advice in , or about , that matter in difference , to be reported to all the churches concerned : howbeit , these synods so assembled are not entrusted with any church-power , properly so called , or with any jurisdiction over the churches themselves , to exercise any censures , either over any churches or persons , or to impose their determinations on the churches or officers . xxvii . besides these occasioned synods or councels , there are not instituted by christ any stated synods in a fixed combination of churches , or their officers , in lesser or greater assemblies ; nor are there any synods appointed by christ in a way of subordination to one another . xxviii . persons that are joyned in church-fellowship , ought not lightly or without just cause to withdraw themselves from the communion of the church whereunto they are so joyned : nevertheless , where any person cannot continue in any church without his sin , either for want of the administration of any ordinances instituted by christ , or by his being deprived of his due priviledges , or compelled to any thing in practice not warranted by the word , or in case of persecution , or upon the account of conveniency of habitation ; he , consulting with the church , or the officer or officers thereof , may peaceably depart from the communion of the church , wherewith he hath so walked , to joyn himself with some other church , where he may enjoy the ordinances in the purity of the same , for his edification and consolation . xxix . such reforming churches as consist of persons sound in the faith , and of conversation becoming the gospel , ought not to refuse the communion of each other , so far as may consist with their own principles respectively , though they walk not in all things according to the same rules of church-order . xxx . churches gathered and walking according to the mind of christ , judging other churches ( though less pure ) to be true churches , may receive , unto occasional communion with them , such members of those churches as are credibly testified to be godly , and to live without offence . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a e- rom. . , , . ver. . this perswasion cometh not of him that calleth you gal. . . pet. . . pet. . . cor. . gal. . . heb. . . eph. . . . heb. . . heb. . . june . . aug. . session . ordinance of march . considerations and cautions from sion coll. jun. . . jus divinum min. pub . by the provost of london , in the preface . puritanis . ang. by dr. aims , near years since , as the opinions of whitehead , gilbe , fox , dearing , greenbam , cartwright , venner , fulk , whitaker , rainold , perkins , &c. church-government and church-covenant discussed, in an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england to two and thirty questions, sent over to them by divers ministers in england, to declare their judgments therein. together with an apologie of the said elders in new-england for church-covenant, sent over in answer to master bernard in the yeare . as also in an answer to nine positions about church-government. and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points. mather, richard, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ], :e [ ]) church-government and church-covenant discussed, in an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england to two and thirty questions, sent over to them by divers ministers in england, to declare their judgments therein. together with an apologie of the said elders in new-england for church-covenant, sent over in answer to master bernard in the yeare . as also in an answer to nine positions about church-government. and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points. mather, richard, - . mather, richard, - . apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant. peters, hugh, - . davenport, john, - . [ ], ; [ ], , [ ], - , [ ] p. printed by r.o. and g.d. [and t.p. and m.s.] for benjamin allen and are to be sold at his shop in popes head-ally, london : . the first two parts were written by richard mather. editor's note "to the reader" signed: h. peter, i.e. hugh peters. in part a reply to: ashe, simeon. a letter of many ministers in old england, requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions. "an apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant" and "an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england unto nine positions", the latter written by john davenport, each have separate dated title page with "printed by t.p. and m.s. for benjamin allen" in imprint. "an apologie" begins new register and pagination and possibly was issued separately (cf. wing m ). the last leaf is blank. annotation on thomason copy: on t.p. of part : "june "; on t.p. of part : "june ". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bernard, richard, - . ashe, simeon, d. . -- letter of many ministers in old england, requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions -- controversial literature -- early works to . church polity -- early works to . congregational churches -- england -- early works to . congregational churches -- government -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion church-government and church-covenant discvssed , in an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england to two and thirty questions , sent over to them by divers ministers in england , to declare their judgments therein . together with an apologie of the said elders in new-england for church-covenant , sent over in answer to master bernard in the yeare . as also in an answer to nine positions about church-government . and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points . london , printed by r. o. and g. d. for benjamin allen and are to be sold at his shop in popes head-ally , . to the reader . it is not hard to believe that such discourses as this wil meet with divers censures , the prophane and ignorant loathing christ , and any thing concerning him ; the formalist accounting such truths troublesom that may ingage him in the change of his opinions and practises , and some of the wisest will be apt to question the tyming such light as this : yea doubtles this pamphlet-glut●ed age will so looke upon it , and lay it by . but because i doe conceive that this sword will not be sheath'd which is now drawn , till church-work be better known , and more countenanced , and since safety is laid up in the temple , psa . . , , . i could not but help on this , which attended and practised may prove our security next to christ . these were either sudden answers to our doubting and inquiring brethren , or some satisfaction rendred about our so much slighted church-covenant , which wee could not but thinke might come to view , for the present stay to some faithfull soules , that call for light , and intend to use it well : for others , of what kind soever , we must beare their harder thoughts , among th●se usuall loads of scandals , that men of our judgement must carry , especially if zeale for the truth draw them forth to publike observation ; nor doe we purpose ( god helping us . ) to succumbe under calumny , being the livery of quieter times then these , let us bee viler still , so god and his arke may be more glorious . yet this i doe professe for my selfe and brethren that as we have not bin dealt with , nor convinc'd of any offence , so we shall ever be ready to give an account of that hope which is in us , being call'd thereunto ; in the meane time we over looke these barkings of black mouthes , and wish a good comment be made upon the text of our plaine meaning . the onely way i know to reach gods mind in worship will bee to love the truth for it's owne sake : yea to love it when it shall condemne our practises and persons also : who hath not observed that the first step to error is the declining the truth in love to it ? ⁂ hence popery begat her first brat , and hath nurst it up with thesame milke ; we would earnestly desire that none would call that unsensonable or unreasonable , which god seemes even now to call for , at the calling of this synode , and will carry so much reason with it , as god and his truth will owne ; more tendernes and respect to our brethren we know not how to shew , who sent us these . questions , no other dealing would we have from our brethren not consenting with us . some rivers have bin noted to differ in the colours of the water , yet running in the same channell : let jesus christ be lifted up by us all ; let us love him whilst wee dispute about him . presbytery and independency ( as it is cal'd ) are the wayes of worship and church fellowship , now looked at , since ( we hope ) episcop 〈…〉 out , and will be buried without expectation of another resurrection . we are much charged with what we own not , viz : independency , when as we know not any churches reformed , more looking at sister churches for helpe then ours doe onely we cannot have rule yet discovered from any friend or enemy , that we should be under canon , or power of any other church ; under their councell we are . we need not tell the wise whence tyranny grew in churches , and how common wealths got their pressure in the like kind . these be our sighs and hearty wishes , that selfe may be conquered in this poore nation , which shuts the doore against these truths . know ( good reader ) we do not hereby go about to whistle thee out of any known good way of god. commonly questions and answers cleare up the way , when other treatises leave us to darknes . read them , and what we say for a church-covenant , it may save charge and time in reading other bookes , remember wee strive not here for masteryes , but give an account of our practise wherein if thou know'st we faile candidus imperti ; if we agree let us worke by our plat-forme ; and may thy soule flourish as a greene heath or watered garden . so prayeth thine heartily h. peter . the xxxii questions stated . _ . whether the greatest part of the english there ( by estimation ) be not as yet unadmitted to any congregation among you , and the reasons thereof ? . what things doe you hold to be essentiall and absolutely necessary to the being of a true visible church of christ ? . whether doe you not hold all visible believers to bee within the visible church as members thereof , and not without in the apostles sence ; cor. . and therefore ought so to be acknowledged , and accepted in all congregations wheresoever they shall come , and are so knowne : and ought ( if they desire and be not otherwise unfit ) of right to be permitted to partake in all gods ordinances and church priviledges there , so farre as they personally concerne themselves , although they be not as yet fixed members in particul●r covenant , either with that congregation where for the present they reside , nor with any other ? . whether you doe not hold that baptisme rightly ( for substance ) partaked doth make them that are so baptized , members of the visible church : and so to have right ( at least quoad nos ) to all the priviledges thereof ( so farre as they are otherwise fit ) untill they be cast out ( if they so deserve ) by excommunication . . whether doe you not admit children under age as members of the church , together with , and in the admission of their parent or parents : so as thenceforth they may partake of all church priviledges being otherwise fit ) without any other personall profession of faith , or entring into church covenant , when they shall come to yeares ? and how long doe you count them under age ? . whether do not you admit orphants under age , with and in their guardians ? . whether doe you admit or refuse children under age only acco●ding to the present estate of their nearest parents ? or doe you not admit them if any of their next ancestors before their parents were believers ? . whether doe you require of all persons of age , whom you admit members of any church ? . a publike vocall declaration of the manner and soundnesse of their conversion ? . a publike profession of their faith concerning the articles of religion . . an expresse verball covenanting to walke with the said church in particular , in church fellowship . . and not to depart from the said church afterward without the consent thereof : or how doe you hold and practise in these things ? . whether doe you hold all , or the most of our parish assemblies in old-england to be true visible churches of christ ; with which you may lawfully joyne in every part of gods true worship ( if occasion served thereto : ) or if not all or the most , then what ones are those of which you so account , and with which you durst so partake or joyne ; and in what respects ? and why be not the rest such as well as they ? . if you hold that any of our parishionall assemblies are true visible churches , and that the members thereof are all , or some of them ( at least ) members of true visible churches , then whether will you permit such members ( at least ) as are either famously knowne to your selves to be godly , or doe bring sufficient testimoniall thereof from others that are so knowne , or from the congregation it selfe whereof they were members here , to partake with you in all the same ordinances , and parts of gods true worship in any of your congregations ( as by occasion they may be there ) in the same manner , and with the like liberty , as you would permit any that might happily come unto you from any of the churches of geneva , france , the low-countreyes , or yet from any one church to another among your selves : suppose from some church about connecticut , or that of plimouth , &c. vnto the church at boston , new-towne , dorchester , &c. or if not , what may be the reason thereof ? . whether doe you hold our present standing in our parish assemblies here in old england , to bee lawfull and safe to be continued in , or how f●rre it may be so ? . whether doe you hold that every believer is alwayes bound to joyne himselfe as a fixed member to some one particular congregation , so as if he doe not , and so oft and so long as he doth it not , so oft and so long he is without the church in the apostles sence , cor. . as an heathen or publican , out of the kingdome of christ , and possibility of salvation , according to that maxime in divinity , extra ecclesiam non est salus . . vvhether doe you thinke it lawfull and convenient that a company of private and illitterate persons ( into a church body combined ) should themselves ordinarily examine , elect , ordaine , and depose their owne ministers of the word , without the asistance of any other ministers of other churches , where the same may be had ? . whether doe you hold that every small company of seaven , or nine , or twenty , or fourty persons , combined into a church body , be such a church ( as by the ordinance of christ ) hath , and ought to have all power , and exercise of church government : so as they may transact all ecclesiasticall businesses independently amongst themselves ? . whether do you give the exercise of all church power of government to the whole church , or to the presbiters thereof alone ? and if to those , then we desire to know what act of government , and superior authority ( properly so called ) may the presbiters doe , more then any other member may doe , or without the particular consent of the rest , wee crave to have those particular acts mentioned : and how , and over whom in those acts the presbiters doe rule ( in propriety of speaking ) more then the rest of the congregation doe ? . whether doe you not permit women to vote in church matters ? . whether in voting doe the major part alwayes , or at any time , carry ecclisiasticall matters with you , or in what things doth it , in what not ? . what meanes have you to preserve your churches in vnity and verity , or to correct or reduce any church erring in doctrine or practice . as , . whether you have any plat-form of doctrine and discipline agreed upon ; or if you have not , whether meane you to have one , and when ; and thinke you it lawfull and expedient so to have ? . whether have you combined your selves together into classes , or purpose so to doe , so as to doe no weighty matter without their counsell and consent ? . or give you any power to synods and councells to determine and order things that cannot otherwise be ended , so as that their determination shall bind the particular churches so assembled to due obedience , in case they decree nothing but according to truth and right , and to peaceable suffering , in case they should doe otherwise ? or what other course you have , or intend to have for that end aforesaid ? . whether hold you , that each particular church may lawfully make such laws or orders ecclesiasticall , for the government of it selfe , and the members thereof ; for decency , order , and edification , as shall oblige all her members , and may not be omitted without sinne ? . wherein hold you that the whole essence of a ministers calling doth consist : as , whether is election by the people it , yea or no ? or . is it so essentiall , as that without it , the ministers calling is a meere nullity ? or . is ordination as essentiall a part thereof , as the peoples election ? or . is it but a meer formality and solemnity of their calling ? . whether doe you hold it lawfull for meer lay or private men to ordaine ministers in any case ? . what essentiall difference put you between the office of pastor and teacher , and doe you obser●●e the same difference inviolably ; and do not your teachers by vertue of that office give themselves usually to application of doctrine as , well as your pastours ? and do they not also usually apply the seales ? . what authority or eminency have your preaching elders , above your sole ruling elders , or are they both equalls ? . vvhether may a minister of one congregation ( being thereto requested ) do as a minister any act of his ministery ( as preach , baptize , administer the lords supper , ordain , &c. in and unto other congregations besides his owne ? . whether hold you that a minister of a congregation , leaving or loosing his place ( suppose without his fault ) doe withall lose both nomen and esse of his ministery , and do become a meere lay , or private man , untill he be a new elected , and ordained ? . whether doe you allow , or thinke it lawfull to allow and settle any certain & stinted maintenance upon your ministers ? . whether doe you permit and call upon meer lay and private men ( neither being in the ministerie nor intended to it ) ordinarily to preach or prophecie publiquely , in , and before the congregation ? and whether thinke you that prophecying mentioned , cor. . be to be understood of such , and be an ordinary and standing order of god in the church ? . whether doe you allow and call upon your people publiquely before all the congregation to propound questions , move doubts , & argue with their ministers of matters delivered either by them or others , either at the same , or some other time ? . whether hold you that the conversion of sinners to god is ordinarily the proper fruit and effect of the word preached , by a minister alone , and that by vertue of his office alone , or that it is alike common to ministers , and lay persons , so they be gifted to preach ? . whether all and every of your churches ( including plimouth , &c. ) do precisely observe the same course both in constitution and government of themselves ? . vvhether would you permit any companie of ministers and people ( being otherwise in some measure approvable ) to sit downe by you , and set up and practise another forme of discipline , enioying like libertie with your selves in the common-wealth , and accepted as a sister church by the rest of your churches ? . vvhether hold you it lawfull to use any set forms of prayer in publique or private , as the lords prayer and others , either made by himselfe that useth the same , or else by some other man ? the answers to the aforegoing questions . the first question answered . all the english and others also are freely admitted to be present in our congregations , at the reading of the scriptures , and exposition thereof ( which is wont alwayes to goe along therewith ) at the preaching of the word , singing of psalmes , prayers , admitting of members , and dispencing of censures ; and many also are admitted to church communion , and so to partake in church ordinances and priviledges , as sacraments , power of election , censures , &c. though many also there are who are not yet admitted to this church communion . but whether is the greater number , those that are admitted hereunto , or those that are not we cannot certainly tell ? but in the churches in the bay , where most of us are best acquainted , we may truely say , that for the heads of families , those that are admitted are farre more in number then the other : besides whom there are likewise sundry children and servants that are admitted also . and for the reason● why many are not yet received to church communion , they are sundry . . many are not admitted because they are not yet knowne . every yeare hitherto god hath replenished the country with many new commers , and these at the first are not suddainly taken in , as members of churches , till by time there have been some triall of them , and better occasion to know them what they are . sometimes once a yeare there are in the land many hundreds , and some thousands of this sort . . when by time they come to be knowne , many do appeare to be carnall , and give no testimony of being members of christ , and therefore if they should offer themselves to be members of churches the churches would not see warrant to receive them , because the church is the body of christ . . some that are godly do of their own accord for a time forbeare to offer themselves , till they be better acquainted with the church and ministry where they intend to joyne , and with the wayes in which the churches walke in this country , and and till they be better informed what are the duties of church members . . those that are knowne to be godly , are all admitted in some church or other presently , upon their own desire , when they offer themselves thereto : except any have given offence by walking ( in any particular , in their conversation ) otherwise then becomes the gospell ; and then such are to give satisfaction to them to whom they have given offence , by acknowledgeing their offence , and shewing repentance for it , and then they are admitted . it is one thing what churches ought to be by the appointment of jesus christ , another , what weaknesse and swerving● from his appointment , he may beare withall for a time , before he renounce and cast off a people from being his church . in respect of the former our answer is , that when a visible church is to be e●rected planted or constituted , by the appointment of christ , it is necessary that the matter of it in regard of quality , should be saints by calling , visible christians and believers , cor. . . eph. . . and in respect of quantity no more in number in the dayes of the new testament , but so many as may meet in one congregation . cor. . & . . acts . . & . . and the forme , a gathering together of these visible christians , a combining and uniting of them into one body , by the bond of an holy covenant , for which we refer you to the apolgie of the churches in n. e. sent the last yeare in way of answer to mr. bernard . for the latter we deny not , but visible churches rightly constituted at the first , may degenerate , and great corruptions may grow therein , both in respect of matter and forme , and likewise in respect of their walking and administrations , and yet the lord in his patience may beare long with them , before he give them a bill of divorce , and make them lo-ammi , not a people ; as the example of the church of israel in the old testament . of the church of corinth , the churches of galatia , the churches of asia , and others in the new testament , doe abundantly manifest . but what degrees of corruption may be , before the soule as it were , and life , and being of a church be destroyed , is hard for us precisely and punctually to determine ; or to say thus farre a church may erre , and yet remaine a church ; but if it proceed any further , then it ceaseth to be a church any more ; onely in the generall this we observe , the lord doth not presently cast off a church or give them a bill of divorce , no not for fundamentall errors in doctrine , or idolatry in worship , or tyranny in government , till after obstinate and rebellious rejection of reformation , and the meanes thereof : for all these were found in the church of israel , when they crucified christ , yet the apostles rejected them not , till after the light of grace offered , and blasphemously rejected , acts . , . but if your selves have so studied this point , as to have ripened and formed thoughts therein , we should gladly receive light from you . we do not know any visible church of the n. t. properly so called , but onely a particular congregation ; and therefore when this question in the first and last clause of it speakes of believers within the visible church , as members thereof , although they be not members of that particular congregation , where for the present they reside , nor of any other : this speech seemes to us according to our apprehension to imply a contradiction . they that are within the visible church as members thereof , must needs be members of some particular congregation , because all visible churches are congregationall , as mr. baine sheweth at large from the church of antioch , act. . . the church at corinth , cor. . & . and other examples and reasons with answers to the objections to the contrary in his dioces . triall quest . . whereto we referre you in this point ; neither is he alone in this tenent , for mr. parker , and many other teach the same . those silenced and deprived ministers that wrote the booke called , the christian and modest offer of disputation , laying downe . propositions which they offer to maintaine against the prelats , give this for the fourth of them viz. there is no true visible church of christ , but a particular ordinary congregation onely . doubtlesse every true visible church hath power from christ to exercise excommunication and other ordinances of christ , so that they proceed therein according to the rules of the word , cor. . . . mat. . . now dr. whitakers sheweth against bellarmine , that excommunication belongs not to the universall church , but onely to a particular congregation . qui justè excommunicantur , saith he , co satanae traditos esse concedimu● , non t●men posse pr●priem , d●●i eject●s ex ecclesia catholica , quia excommunicatio non catholica , sed particularis ecclesiae censura est . de eccles . qu. . c. . wherefore if excommunication which belongs to the visible church , belongeth to a particular congregation , it followeth , that there is no visible church , but onely a particular congregation . secondly , as all visible believers are not without christ , but in christ , according as they are believers , so we easily grant ; that those without , of whom the apostle speakes , cor. . were unbelievers , pagans , and heathens , both without christ , and also without the visible church . for those that were in christ , and believers in him , were not wont to abstaine from joyning to some particular congregation or other ; and so it come to passe , that as they were in christ by their faith , so by such joyning they became also to be within the visible church . . but this we conceive is cleare also , that unlesse believers , be members of this or that particular congregation , to whose inspection and government they have commended themselves in the lord , they also in some respect may be said to be without , that is without the jurisdiction and power of the visible church , and without right to the priviledges of it , as long as they continue in that state : for the church hath nothing to do , either to dispence censures and church priviledges to pagans , who are without all churches , and without christ also ; or to such christians , who though they are not without christ , yet are not within any particular church : for neither the church , nor the ministers thereof may be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and though those without of whom the apostle speakes , cor. . were pagans and heathens , both without christ , and without the visible church also , yet when hee speaketh of judgeing , and saith they might judge them that are within , and not judge them that are without , hee must not be understood as if he meant it simply of being in christ or without christ , and no more then so , but also of being in that particular congregation , and without it : for it is plaine , that those that were in christ , if they were not also within their particular congregation , they had nothing to do to judge them ; and those that were within their particular congregation , them they might judge , though they were not in christ . . and that church priviledges do not belong to believers , as such , but onely to such as withall are members of some particular church : the grounds and reasons in the answer to the third and fourth proposition sent the last yeare , do seeme to us to make manifest , whereto we do referre you , for further answer to this question . it is an opinion of the anabaptists , that the church is made by baptisme , and therefore when they constitute or erect a church , they do it by being all of them baptized , which was the manner of mr. smith , mr. helwis , and the rest of that company when they set up their church : the papists also do imagine , that men enter into the church by baptisme , and it is said , that their founts were set neere the doores of their temples , to signifie mens entring into the church by baptisme , and they thought themselves to be christened , or made christian soules by being baptized . but we do not believe that baptisme doth make men members of the church , nor that it is to be administred to them that are without the church , as the way and meanes to bring them in , but to them that are within the church , as a seale to confirme the covenant of god unto them . for . this is one point of the dignity and priviledge of the church , that baptisme and all church ordinances are given and committed to it , as circumcision , and church ordinances were given and concredited to the church of the jewes , ioh. . . now if baptisme in its first being and institution be given as a benefit and priviledge to the church , then baptisme is not that which makes the church ; but the church is presupposed , and must be before it , for the dones , or persons to whom a thing is given , must needs be before the gift that is given to them . . the nature and use of baptisme is to be a seale to confirme the covenant of grace between god and his church , and the members thereof , as circumcision also was , rom. . . now a seale is not to make a thing that was not , but to confirme something that was before ; and so baptisme is not that which gives being to the church , nor to the covenant , but is for confirmation thereof . to bring in baptisme before the covenant , and before the church , with whom god makes the covenant and then to bring in the church afterwards , is to make baptisme a seale unto a blanke , or to a falshood . when the jesuits of rhemes had said that christ sent apostles to the jewes to move them to penance , and so by baptisme to make them of his church . and that paul was sent to the gentiles to move them also to faith and penance , and by baptisme to make them of his church . this saying of making men of the church by baptisme , though uttered by them , as it were by the way , and not being the chiefe scope of their discourse , yet seemed to mr. cartwright so erroneous and unsound , that hee would not let it passe without bearing speciall witnesse against the same . and therefore in opposition thereunto he hath these words , and in another character for more conspicuousnesse , viz. that baptisme makes not men of the church , but sealeth their incorporation into it , hath been declared afore . argument of acts . . and that catechisme which is commonly said to be penned by our reverend brother mr. ball , or mr. nicholas , now with god , giving this for the definition of baptisme , that it is a sacrament of our ingrafting into christ , communion with him , and entrance into the church , doth in the exposition plainely declare , that when they called baptisme a sacrament of our entrance into the church , they did not meane that baptisme made men members of the church , but signified and sealed that they were members afore : the seed of abraham say they , pag . gal. . . or children of christian parents are within the covenant , are christians and members of the church , cor. . . rom. . . baptisme therefore doth not make them christian soules , but doth solemnly signifie and seale their ingrafting into christ , and that communion which the members of christ have with him their head , and doth confirme , that they are acknowledged members of the church , and entred into it , pet. . . . the lord hath had his church when there was neither baptisme nor circumcision , and therefore baptisme or circumcision cannot be that which constitutes the church . the church is one and the same in essence from the begining of the world to the end thereof , viz. a company of people combined together by holy covenant with god , and one with another , and this hath been before baptisme , and likewise before circumcision in the dayes of the patriarks afore abraham . yea if baptisme now , or circumcision in former time did make men members of the church , then for forty yeares together there was no making members of the church , for so long circumcision was discontinued , when baptisme was not yet instituted , ioss . . , . &c. and so by this meanes all that generation of the israelites that were not circumcised till their comming over jordan unto gilgall , should have bin no members of the church afore that time of their circumcision , which is contrary to the scripture , which as it gives the name and title of a church to the body of this people , when they were in the wildernesse , act. . ● . ( and they were in the wildernesse . yeares , in the latter parts of which time there were few left remaining that had beene circumcised ) so it witnesseth that afore this time of their circumcision they were in covenant with god and his church , deut. . , , . for that covenant was not made with their fathers that came out of egypt , and were circumcised there , because that generation was consumed in the wildernesse for their murmuring afore this time : but this covenant was made with the children , that as yet were uncircumcised , and therefore it was not circumcision that made men members of the church . . baptisme hath been administred , and no church nor members made thereby , and men have been made members of churches and not then baptised , but before . and therfore it is not baptisme that makes men members of the church , jerusalem and all judea , and all the region round about jordan were baptised of iohn confessing their sinnes , mat. . . and christ made and baptised more disciples then iohn , ioh. . . and yet neither christ nor john did make new churches , nor gather men into them themselves , both the one and the other living and dying members of the jewish church , which was not yet dissolved , untill upon their rejecting of christ ( not onely of his person upon the crosse , but of his gospel in blaspheming and persecuting grace offered them ) the two staves of beauty and bands were broken and cut assunder , whereby god did breake the covenant that he had made with that people , and the brotherhood between juda and israel , that is , he did un church them , zach. . , . &c. to . so that here is baptisme administred by john and christ , and yet men not received thereby into the church as members , for they were members long afore . againe , when any of those of jerusalem , judea , and the region round about jordan , that were baptised of john , or any of those , many more that were baptised of christ , were afterward joyned as members to those christian churches in judea , samaria , and galile , act. . . ( as no doubt many of them were ) they were not made members of those christian churches by being baptised , for they were baptised long afore by john and christ , so that those men were members of the jewish church , which was not yet dissolved , and were baptised afterward . and therefore it was not baptisme that made them members , either of the one church or of the other . . there are sundry inconveniences , which for ought we see will unavoidably follow , if we shall say that baptisme makes men members of the church ; for first , if baptisme be that which constituts the church , then baptisme may be dispenced by them that are no ministers , for extraordinary ministers , as apostles , and such like are now ceased ; and ordinary ministers have no power to dispence baptisme to any , but onely to them that are already members of the church , seeing their commission and power is limited to the church , and the flock of god over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers , acts . . besides , the church is before the ministers , seeing the power of choosing ministers is given by christ unto the church ; and therfore if baptisme be that which makes the church , then men must be baptised afore there be ministers to baptise them , and consequently without ministers . secondly , if baptisme rightly for substance partaked , doth make men members of the visible church , then it will follow that papists are members of the church : for they have baptisme so farre right for substance , as that it needs not be repeated . but mr. perkins teacheth that this baptisme proves not the church of rome , of which all papists are members , to be any true church of god , and gives sundry reasons for the same , in answer to them , that from baptisme rightly for substance administred in popish assemblies , would prove those assemblies to be true churches : exposit . of creede , in the article , i believe the holy catholique church . and surely for our parts , we doe not see how it will be avoyded , but if baptisme made men members of the visible church , either papists are members of the visible church , and the church of rome , of which they are members , a true visible church , or else we must renounce their baptisme as corrupt and false , even for the substance of it ; and so all such as shall be converted from amongst them , must be baptised againe , as not having had the substance of baptisme before : such dangerous consequences do follow from saying , that baptisme , rightly for substance partaked , doth make them that are so baptised members of the visible church . if any shall say , though baptisme do not make men members of the church , yet it proves them to be members as a cause , is proved by the effect , or an antecedent by a consequent : and therefore all baptised persons should be admitted to all church priviledges as members , whereever they become . we answer , that this will not hold neither , but suppose a man have received baptisme as a member of some visible church , which ought not to have been administred to him , had he not been a member , yet this doth not prove him to be a member still and so give him right to all church priviledges , though hee do remaine alwaies as a baptised person ; and the reason is , because his baptisme may remain , when his church fellowship may be dissolved , as that he can have no right to sacraments thereby : the church member-ship of a baptised person may be thus dissolved by sundry meanes . . by some sentence of excommunication justly passed against him for his sinne ; for that censure puts him away from the communion of the church , cor. . . . and makes him as an heathen or publican , mat. . . so that in that case he can have no right to sacraments by his member-ship , though he still continue a baptised person . . by his voluntary departing from the church and the communion of the same when it is unjustly done , ioh. . . iude . heb. . . in which case dr. ames resolves such schismaticks to be no members of the visible church , cas . cons . lib. . c. q. . resp. . . by the dissolution of the church of which he was a member ; for church member-ship is in relation to a church , and therefore if the church cease , the membership must cease also ; relatum & correlatum quâ ●alia sunt simul , adeoquese mutuoponunt et tollunt . now a church may be dissolved , . by apostacie and gods giving them a bill of divorce thereupon , ier. . . when yet there may be in such a church some particular person or persons deare to god , who in such a case are bid to come out from such an apostate church , rev. . . hose . . , . & , , . . by death , as by some grievous pestilence or masacre , &c. in which case one particular person surviving , cannot be counted a member of a church , when that church is extinct of which he was , and yet he remaines a person baptised if he were baptised afore . . if that be true which is taught by dr. ames cas . cons . lib. . c. . q. . resp . . that in some cases it is lawfull and necessary to withdraw from the communion of a true church ( which seemes to be agreeable to grounds of scripture , ephes . . . chr● . . . ) then that will be another case wherein church membership is disanulled ; for how a man can be counted in that state a member of a church , when hee hath lawfully and necessarily withdrawn himselfe from the communion of the church , we do not understand . and this shall suffice for answer unto this point , whether baptisme make men members of a visible church , which as we conceive , is the scope and drift of this question . yet before we proceed to make answer to the next , something also may be said concerning some passages in your amplification of this fourth question . as first concerning those words wherein you aske , whether they that are baptised have not right , quoad nos , to all the priviledges of the visible church ( so farre as they are otherwise fit : ) concerning which words we may say , . that those words of your parenthesis ( so farre as they are otherwise fit : ) doe plainely imply , that in your judgement , though one hath received baptisme , yet this doth not give him right to the priviledges of the visible church , unlesse other things do concurre to make him fit , wherein we consent with you . now if this be so , then this seemes to be an answer to that which ( as we conceive ) is the maine intent of the question . for how can it be , that baptisme alone should give men right to the priviledges of the church ( as members thereof , as the question seemes to import ) when in the amplification of it , it is granted , that persons baptised have no such right , except other things doe concurre to make them fit : we doe not see how these things doe stand together . secondly , those words as farre as they are otherwise fit : ) as they seeme to imply that which contradicts the maine scope of the question ; so they are so generall and of such a latitude , as that when the question is answered the reader is still left at uncertainty : for if such a parenthesis may be annexed ( so farre as men are otherwise fit : ) then the like question may be applied to many other things besides baptisme , and would receive the very same answer , as in case of baptisme it would receive . as for example , if one should aske whether morall honestie or litterall knowledge in the scriptures , or historicall faith , or the use of reason , whether any of these doe not give men right to church priviledges , so farre as they are otherwise fit ? you know the answer would be , yea. for though none of these be sufficient alone , to give men right to the priviledges of the church , yet they are such as they that have them , have right so farre as they are otherwise fit , and so if it were granted that they that have received baptisme have right , as you say , to all the priviledges of the church , so farre as they are otherwise fit : yet as this doth not prove that baptisme alone doth give men such a right , so still it remaines to be considered , and more particularly declared , what those other things are that besides baptisme must concurre to make one fit ; and unlesse those things be expressed in particular , the question with such a generall qualification as is here set down , may be answered affirmatively , and yet the reader will be still in the darke , and as much to seeke as before . lastly , those words in the latter end of this question had need to be further cleared , wherein you aske , whether baptised persons have not right to all the priviledges of the church , quoad nos , untill they be cast out by excommunication ? for suppose an open blasphemer , a sabath-breaker , an adulterer , a drunkard , &c. that deserves to be excommunicated , be not proceeded against according to rule , but be suffered to continue in the church through bribery or other corruption of the times , would you say that such a person had right either before god , or quoad nos to all the priviledges of the church , onely because hee is baptised ? surely your words doe import so much , unlesse that parenthesis ( so far as they are otherwise fit ) may be any helpe in this case . and yet we hope you doubt not but such doggs and swine have no right either quoad nos , or otherwise , to the priviledges of the church as long as they continue in that state , although they have received baptisme , and although through the sinfull neglect of men they be not cast out by excommunication , as they doe deserve ; for if grosse sinners have such right to church priviledges , onely because they are baptised , then by what right can the church cast them out by excommunication , as you seeme to confesse that she may : for can she castimen out from such priviledges whereunto they have right ? doubtlesse such proceedings were not right , unlesse the church have such a transcendent power as the apostles never had , for they could do nothing against the truth but for the truth , nor had they any power for destruction , but for edification , cor. . . . wherefore we dare not say such men have right to church priviledges ( quoad nos ) untill they be actually cast out , because before they be cast out , it must be cleare to the church , that they have no such right , or else she can have no lawfull right to cast them out . . infants with us are admitted members in and with their parents , so as to be admitted to all church priviledges of which infants are capable , as namely to baptisme ; and therefore when parents are once admitted , their children are thereupon baptised , if they were not baptised afore , as sometimes it falls out . . but whether they should thereupon be admitted to all other priviledges when they come to age , without any personall profession of faith , or entring into church covenant , is another question , of which by reason of the infancy of these churches , we have had no occasion yet to determine what to judge or practise one way or other . . but for the present this we would say ; it seemes by those words of your parenthesis ( being otherwise fit ) you do acknowledge , that children of church members are not to be admitted to church priviledges , unlesse they be fit , wherein we consent with you as counting it altogether unsafe , that idiots , franticks , or persons openly ungracious and prophane , should be admitted to the lords table , though they were the children of church members , and thence we may inferre the necessity of their personall profession of their faith , when they come to yeares , and taking hold of church-covenant , whereby we meane onely a renewing of covenant , or a new professing of their interest in gods covenant , and walking according to it , when they shall be adulti : for otherwise we do confesse , children that are borne when their parents are church members , are in covenant with god even from their birth , gen. . . . and their baptisme did seale it to them . but notwithstanding their birthright , we conceive there is a necessity of their personall profession of faith , and taking hold of church-covenant when they come to yeares ( though you seeme to thinke it not needfull : ) for without this it cannot so well be discerned ; what fitnesse is in them for the lords table and other church priviledges , as by this meanes it might ? and inasmuch as entring into church-covenant is nothing else but a solemne promise to the lord , before him and the church , to walke in all such wayes as the gospel requireth of church members , if they shall refuse to make any such promise , and shall be unable , or unwilling to make any profession of their faith , when it is required of them , this would be an evidence against them , of their unfitnesse for church priviledges , inasmuch as they openly breake that rule , pet. . . be ready to give a reason of the hope that is in you with meeknesse and feare . what hope is there that they will examine themselves when they eat of that bread and drinke of that cup , cor. . . who when others do examine them they are unable or unwilling to give answer ? or how shall we thinke that they will receive the lords supper worthily , or walke as becomes the gospel if they do refuse to professe or promise any such matter ? wherefore in this point we cannot but fully approve the practise of the reformed churches , among whom it is the manner as zepporus writeth , to admit children that were baptised in their infancy unto the lords table , by publique profession of their faith , and entring into covenant , consuetum est , saith he ut qui per aetatem , neque doctrina catechetica perfectum ad sacram coenam primum admittuntur , fidei confessionem coram tota ecclesiâ publicè edant , &c. polit. ecles . l. . c. . p. . that is , the manner is , that they who by reason of age and perficiency in the doctrine of catechisme are first admitted to the lords supper , should publiquely before the whole church , make confession of their faith , being brought forth into the sight of the church by their parents , or them that are instead of parents , at the appointment of the minister : and likewise should promise and covenant by the grace of god to continue in that faith which they have confessed , and to leade their lives according to it : yea and moreover , to subject themselves freely and willingly to the discipline of the church ; these words we see are full and plaine , that children are not in those churches received to the lords table without personall confession of faith , and entring into covenant before . . but how long children should be counted under age , and whether orphans are not to be admitted with their guardians ( which is your sixt quaery ) we should be willing to heare your judgement therein , as having of our selves hitherto had no occasion to search into those questions ; onely this we thinke , that one certaine rule cannot be given for all , whereby to determine how long they are under age , but according as god gives experience and maturity of naturall understanding , and spirituall ; which he gives sooner to some then unto others . such children whose father and mother were neither of them believers , and sanctified , are counted by the apostle ( as it seemes to us ) not faederally holy , but uncleane , what ever their other ancestors have been , cor. . . and therefore we baptise them not . if you can give us a sufficient answer , to take us off from that scripture , cor. . which seemes to limit this faederall sanctity or holynesse to the children whose next parents one or both were believers , we should gladly hearken to you therein ; but for the present , as we believe we speake , and practise according to our light . and if we should goe one degree beyond the next parents , we see not but we may goe two , and if two , why not . , , or ? for where will you stop ? and if we shall admit all children to baptisme , whose ancestors within a thousand generations have been believers , as some would have us , we might by this reason baptise the children of turkes , and of all the indians , and barbarians in the country ; for there is none of them but they have had some believing ancestors within lesse then a . generations , it being farre from so much since noah and his sonnes came forth out of the arke . we do believe that all members of churches ought to be saints , and faithfull in christ jesus , eph. . . cor. . . col. . . phil. . . and thereupon we count it our duty to use all lawfull and convenient meanes , whereby god may helpe us to discerne , whether those that offer themselves for church members , be persons so qualified or no : and therefore first we heare them speake concerning the gift and grace of justifying faith in their soules , and the manner of gods dealing with them in working it in their hearts : which seemes to be your first particular in this quaery . secondly , we heare them speake what they do believe concerning the doctrine of faith , so taking a tryall what measure they have of the good knowledge of the lord , as knowing that without knowledge men cannot well examine themselves and discerne the lords body , as church members ought to doe when they come to the lords table . and hereby also we would prevent ( as the lord shall helpe us ) the creeping in of any into the church that may be infected with corrupt opinions of arminianisme familisme , &c. or any other dangerous error against that faith which was once delivered to the saints , as knowing how easily such men if they were admitted , might infect others , and perhaps destroy the faith of some . and this seemes to be intended in your second particular . for both these we have our warrant as in generall , from those places which shew how church members ought to be qualified , that they ought to be saints , faithfull in christ jesus , &c. so in speciall from that , math. . . acts , & acts . . . where men before they were admitted , made profession of repentance towards god , and faith towards the lord jesus christ ; for it is expressely said , that they confessed their sinnes , they confessed and shewed their deeds , they professed their faith in jesus christ the sonne of god. thirdly , when this is done , those that by manifestation of repentance and faith are approved ; as fit members for a church do openly professe their subjection to the gospel of christ , and to all the ordinances of god in that church , where now they joyne as members , which seemes to be your third particular in this quaerie . the distinction of particular churches one from another , as severall and distinct societies , seemes to us a necessary ground for this practise ; for without this kinde of covenanting , we know not how it would be avoyded , but all churches would be confounded into one , inasmuch as it is neither faith , nor intire affection , nor towne-dwelling , nor frequenting the assemblies that can make a man a member , or distinguish church members from other men : see the apologie . . your fourth particular in this quaerie is answered in the answer to the sixt position sent the last yeare : besides all these , we heare the testimony of others , if there be any that can speake of the conversion and godly conversation of such persons : which we judge to be a warrantable course from acts . , . it is the second of your quaeries , what things we hold necessary to the being of a true visible church in generall : which being answere● ; this of the parish assemblies in england in particular , whether we hold all or the most of them to be churches , we conceive might well have been spared . they that now the state of those assemblies may make application of the generall to the particulars , if they have a calling therunto . yet because you are pleased to put us to this also , we thus answer . . that we doubt not but of ancient time there have been many true churches in england consisting of right matter , and compacted and united together by the right forme of an holy covenant . for mr. fox sheweth at large , that the gospel was brought into england in the apostles times , or within a little while after , acts & mo● . lib. . begining p. . where hee reporteth out of gildas , that england received the gospel in the time of tiberius the emperor , under whom christ suffered ; and that joseph of arin . athea was sent of philip the apostle from france to england , about the yeare of christ . and remained in england all his time , and so hee with his fellowes laid the first foundation of christian faith among the brittaine people , and other preachers and teachers comming afterwards , confirmed the same and increased it . also the said mr. fox reporteth out of t●rtullian , that the gospel was disperced abroad by the sound of the apostles into many nations , and amongst the rest into brittaine , yea into the wildest places of brittaine , which the romans could never attaine unto , and alledgeth also out of necephorus , that simon zelotes did spread the gospell to the west ocean , and brought the same into the iles of brittanie , and sundry other proofs he there hath for the same point . now if the gospel and christian religion were brought into england in the apostles times , and by their meanes , it is like there were churches planted there of saints by calling ( which is the right matter of churches ) and by way of holy covenant , as the right form : for that was the manner of constituting churches in the apostles times , as also in the times afore christ , as hath been shewed from the scripture in the apologie . and the footsteps hereof ( though mixed with manifold corruptions that have growne in aftertimes ) are remaining in many places of the land to this day , as appeareth by those questions and answers at baptisme . abrenuntias ? abrenuntio ; credis ? credo : spondes ? spondeo : dost thou renounce the devill and all his works ? i renounce them all . dost thou believe in god the father & c ? i do believe . dost thou promise to walk according to this faith & c ? i do promise . for though it may be they conceived , that men entred into the church by baptisme , yet hereby it appears that their judgment was that , when men entred into the church there ought to be a renouncing of sin , and believing on christ , and an open professing of these things , with a promise to walk accordingly . secondly , though popish apostacy did afterwards for many ages over-spread all the churches in england ( as in other countries ) yet we believe god still reserved a remnant according to the election of grace amongst them , for whose sake he reserved the holy scriptures amongst them , and baptisme in the name of the trinity onely . and when god of his rich grace was pleased to stirre up the spirit of king edward the sixth , and queene elizabeth to cast off the pope and all fundamentall errors in doctrine and worship , and a great part of the tyranny of popish church government though at first some shires and sundry parishes stood out against that reformation for a time , yet afterwards they generally received the articles of religion agreed upon anno . which are published and consented to by all the ministers endowed in every congregation , with the silent consent also of the people , and subscription of the hands of the chiefe of them ; wherein they do acknowledge no rule of faith or manners , but the holy scriptures ; no divine worship but to god onely ; no mediation nor salvation but in christ onely : no conversion by mans free will , but by gods free grace : no justification but by faith : no perfection nor merit of works , with sundry other necessary and saving truths ; all which containing the marrow and summe of the oracles of god wich are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the eloquia des , concredited onely to the church . rom. . . . and which are that saving doctrine of truth , which is fruitfull in all the world where it comes , ●olo . . , . and upon which the church is grounded and built , and which also it holdeth forth and maintaineth , tim. . . ) we do therefore acknowledge , that where the people do with common and mutuall consent gather into setled congregations ordinarily every lords day , as in england they do , to heare and teach this doctrine , and do professe their subjection therunto , and do binde themselves and their children ( as in baptisme they do ) to continue therein , that such congregations are true churches , notwithstanding sundry defects and dangerous corruptions found in them , wherein we follow the judgement of calvin instit . . . . . &c. w●itaker , de notis ●cclesiae cap. . and many other divines of chiefe note : nor can we judge or speake harshly of the wombes that bare us , nor of the paps which gave us suck . thirdly , but inasmuch as grievous corruptions of latter yeares have greatly increased in some of those assemblies ( as we heare ) both in doctrine , in worship , and in the government thereof , besides those that were when some of us were there , and in former yeares : therefore we are not without feare ( and with griefe we speake it ) what things may come unto at length . if corruptions should still increase and grow ' they might come in time ( if the lord be not more mercifull ) unto such an height as unto obstinacy in evill , and to wilifull rejection of reformation , and the meanes thereof ; and then you know it might be just with god to cast off such utterly , out of the account and number of his churches ; so as never to walke among them any more : which we heartily pray the father of mercies to prevent that such a day may never be : but if ephesus repent not of her declinings , the lord hath threatned that he will come unto her quickly , and remove her candlesticke ; that is , he will un-church them , rev. . , . and lukewarme laodicea shall be spewed out of his mouth , rev. . . and therefore it behoves such of them to repent , and reform themselves betime , lest the lord deale with them as he ha●h done with others . and it much concernes your selves ( in hearty love and faithfullnesse we speake i● , and so we desire you wou●d accept of it ) it very much concernes you ( deare brethren ) whil'st you live amongst them , to beare faithfull witnesse against the corruptions that are remaining in any of them , in respect of their constitution , worship , d●scipline and ministerie , l●st by any sinnefull silence or slacknesse of yours that should blow the trumpet and stand in the gap , the breach should be made wider , and the iniquity increase ; and lest men should flatter themselves in their sinnes , under the name and title of the true church , as the jewes thought themselves secure because of the temple of the lord , jer. . . . because you would know not onelie whether we count those assemblies to b● churches , but what wee would doe for joining in gods worship in them , if occasion served thereunto : we answer , that if we were in england , we should willingly joine in ▪ some parts of gods true worship , and namely in hearing the word , where it is truely preached in sundry assemblies there ; yea though we doe not know them to bee churches , or knew not what they were , whether true churches or no ? for some worship , as praier , and preaching , and hearing the word , is not peculiar to church assemblies , but may be performed in other meetings . mars-hill at athens was no church , nor the prison at philippi , and yet the word of god was preached and heard lawfully w●th good successe in th●se places , act. . and act. . how much more might it bee lawfull to heare the w●rd in many parish assemblies in england , in when gener●lly there is a professing of christ ; and in many of them : m●n , soul●s that are sincere and upright hearted christians , as any are this day upon the face of the earth ; and m●ny congregations indeed that are the true churches of jesus christ , see mr. robinsons treatise of the lawfullnesse of hearing the ministers in the church of england . . but why we durst not partake in their prescript lyturgie , and such ordinances though true , as are administred therein ; we gave you account the last yeare , in answer to the first and second position : as al●o in an answer to a discourse of that subject , penned by our reverend brother mr. ball. what we have done in our ignorance whil'st we lived amongst you , wee have seene cause rather to bewaile it in our selves here , then to it in others there . our answer to this question is this , . that we never yet knew any to come from england in such a manner as you do here describe ( ● the things you mention may be taken conjunctim , and not severally ) viz : to be men famously known to be godly , and to bring sufficient testimoniall thereof from others that are so knowne , and from the congregation it selfe , whereof they were members : we say we never yet knew any to come to us from thence in such a manner , but one or other of the things here mentioned are wanting : and generally this is wanting in all of them , that they bring no testimoniall from the congregation it selfe : and therefore no marvell if they have not beene admitted ( further then before hath been expressed in answer to quest . . ) to church ordinances with us , before they have joyned to one or other of our churches ; for though some that come over bee famously knowne to our selves to be godly , or bring sufficient testimoniall with them from private christians , yet neither is our knowledge of them , nor testimonal from p●ivate christians sufficient to give us church-power over them , which wee had need to have , if we must dispence the ordinances of church communion to them ? though it be sufficient to procure all due reverent respect , and hearty love to them in the lord. . if the things mentioned were all to be found , yet it w●u●d be also requisite ( if they would partake of church ordinances with us , and yet not joyne to any of our churches ) that w●● should know the congregation it selfe , from which they come , not onely to be a true church , but also what manner of one it is : for such persons cannot communicate with us in church ordinances in their owne right ; because they joine not as members in any of our churches ; but it must be in right of the congregation in england , to which they doe belong , and by virtue of the communion of churches , and so our admitting of them to communion with us in such a manner , and upon such terms , is not only an act of communion with the persons themselves , but also with the congregation of which they are : now as we cannot of faith admit men to church ordinances , which we believe belong only to church members ; unles we know the congregation of which they are members to be a true church . so somtimes a congregation may be so corrupt , that though it doe remain a true church , yet for the corruption and impurities of it , it may be lawfull and necessary to withdraw communion from the same ( for which dr. ames gives sundry grounds and reasons , cas . cons . lib. c. . q. . resp . . ) or at least to protest against some grosse corruptions therein . in regard whereof we had need to have some knowledge and information what that congregation is , with whom now we have church communion ; when in heir right wee admit m●n into communion , that wee may know how to admit such m●n , and what to require from them more or l●sse . and this together with that want of testimoniall from the congregation is one main● reason , why some few godly men that have come from england upon occasion , not with purpose of continuance here , but of returning again● ; have not beene received to church ordinances during thei● abode in the countrey ( though this we may say also , that we know not of any such that have requested to be received ) whereas ●uch as have come in l●ke manner from one c●u●ch to another m●ngst our selves , upon their requ●st have been r●ceived : the reason ne say is , because these churc●es are better knowne then the parish assemblies are . . but if men come from one church in this countrey to another with purpose there to stay , and not to returne to the church from whence they came , ( which is the manner of all , or the most that come from england ) they are not rec●ived into our churches ; but upon the very same tearmes , and in the same manner , as men are received that come from england ; viz : upon personall profession of their faith , and entring into church covenant , in that church to which they now come ( and the same we say of such as come from any of the churches in other countries ) and wherefore are they not received otherwise , because we renounce the church of which they were members as no true church ? not so , but because wee believe in matter of faith , ( such as is the admitting of members ) any true church may erre : and there may now bee seene some unworthinesse in the man which did not appeare when hee was admitted in the other church : and therefore no reason that the act of one church in the admitting of members or the like , should bee a binding rule unto another ; for all churches are left to their liberty to admit and receive such into their chu●ch ; as they shal find to be fit according to the rule of the word , and to refuse others , without respect of what they have bin before , whether members of this church , or that church , or of any church , or none : and therefore in this , our walking and practice , is alike towards one another , and towards others as it is towards yours . in which practise we are not alone , for the very same as mr. parker reporteth , is the manner of the reformed churches , amongst whom , no man is admitted for a member ; but upon personall profession of faith , and entring into church covenant , though it may be he have formally beene admitted in the very same manner in the church where he lived before , polit. eccles . l. . c. . . . p. . if the ground of this qu. were any doubt in your owne consciences concerning your owne way , there were no fault in propounding such a qu. for further light and satisfaction , if wee were able to give it . or if it did ari●e from any unnecessary intermedling of ours in your matters , so as to take on us to condemne or judge your present standing , when we have no calling thereunto , there were then reason why we should give account of our owne doings or sayings . but if it came from some men we should looke at it as a tempting question , tending onely to make matter , and pick quarrells ; and then we should leave it to them that framed it , to consider the ground of it ; and to fr●me their owne answer to it . as for us , we have alwayes been slow and loth to judge or condemne your present standing ; remembring the saying of the apostle , who art thou that judgest another mans servant , he standeth or falleth to his own master , rom. . . but now knowing you well ( reverend and deare brethren ) and your integrity , we thinke wee may lawfully and safely answer , and that wee would doe by promising a few distinctions , for explaining the termes of the question . . concerning the persons in the parish assemblies , which may be meant of such as the providence of god hath so dispos●d that they are free and at liberty : or of such as are bound , and it may be not sui juris , as wives , children under the government of parents , servants , apprentices , prisoners , sickefolkes , &c. . concerning the parish assemblies , which may bee meant either of such as want the preaching of the word or sacraments , or discipline , or any other holy ordinance of christ , or have many ordinances in them which are not of god , but of men : or else it may be meant of some others , which in both respects are reformed and pure , if there be any such . . concerning standing in them , which may be meant onely of habitation , and dwelling upon house or land within the precincts of the parish ; or else in conforming in judgement or practise to the corrupt ecc●esiasticall ordinances used in those assemblies ; and contenting themselves therewith . . concerning lawfull and safe ; where safety may be meant either of safety from sinne , or from danger by persecution , these distinctions wee judge necessary to bee premised , because your question is , whether wee count your standing in the parish assemblies lawfull and safe ; or how farre it may be so ? and so our answer is in . propositions . . some persons , and namely those that are not sui juris , may lawfully and without sinne ; though it may bee not safely without danger of persecution , continue such standing in the parish assemblies , as doe dwell within the pr●c●●cts of them , so long as they neither conforme themselves to the corruptions of men by such continuing of their standing , nor live in the neglect or want of any ordinance of christ through their owne default . . such standing in the parish assemblies , where a man shall , and must conforme to the corruptions of men , in doctrine or worship ; or the government of the chu●ch , is not lawfull for any to be continued in . . to continue such standing in the parish assemblies , as to live in the want of any ordinance of christ is not lawfull , nor can be done safely without sinne of them , to whom the providence of god doth open a doore of further enlargement . the first of these propositions wee suppose you doubt not of . the second is confirmed by many places of scripture ; and namely by such as these . though israel play the harlot , yet let not iudah offend , and come not yee to gilgall , nor go up to bethaven , nor sweare the lord liveth : ephraim is joyned to idolls , let him alone , hos , . . . come out from among them , and be ye separate saith the lord , and touch no uncleane thing , and i will receive you , cor. . . be not partaker of other mens sinnes , keep thy selfe pure , tim. . . come out of her my people , that yee bee not partakers of her sinnes , and that yee receive not of her plagues , rev. . . have no fellowship with the unfruitfull works of darkenesse , but reprove them rather , eph. . . ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment ; because he willingly walked after the commandement , hos . . . wee ought to obey god rather then men , act. . and . . jeroboam made priests of the lowest of the people , which were not of the sonnes of levi , and ordained a feast in the fifteenth day of the eigth moneth , in the month which he had devised of his ●w●e heart , &c. and then the levites left their suburbs and their posessions , and came to iudah and ierusalem , for ieroboam and his sonnes had cast them off from executing the priests office unto the lord ; and after them out of all the tribes of israell , such as set their hearts to seek the lord god of israel , came to ierusalem to sacrifice to the lord god of their fathers , king. . . with chron. . . . vpon these and such like grounds of holy scripture we are perswaded that such standing in the parish assemblies , as this second proposition mentions , is not lawfull for any to be continued in . and we hope , you doubt not of the truth of this second proposition neither , though we are afraid that many christians , when it comes to practice , doe sinfully pollute themselves by partaking in the ceremonies , and other corruptions in the prayers , in the doctrine , and in the ministery remaining in sundry of those assemblies , whom it will bee your part whilst you live among them faithfully and by all good meanes to instruct and teach , and exhort , to save themselves from the corruptions and pollutions of the times and places wherin they live ; as well in this particular of church matters , and gods worship as in other things : wherein wee wish with all our hearts that our selves when time was , had been more watchfull and faithfull to god and the soules of his people , then the best of us were : the lord lay not our ignorance to our charge . the third proposition may bee made good sundry wayes , . by precepts , wherin we are commanded to observe all things whatsoeuer christ hath commanded , mat. . . to seeke the kingdom of god and his righteousnesse , mat. . . to yeild our selves unto the lord , and to enter into his sanctuary , chr. . . and therefore we may not please our selves to live in the neglect of any ordinance which he hath instituted and appointed . . by examples , for the spouse of christ will not rest seeking her beloved untill shee finde him in the fullest manner , cant. . , . and . , . &c. and the same minde was in david ; as appeares by his heavy lamentation , when he wanted the full fruition of gods ordinances , and his longings , and prayer to be restored thereto , psal . . and psal . . and . although he enjoyed abiathar the high priest , and the ephod with him ; and likewise gad the prophet , sam. . , , . &c. sam. . . when good ezra in his journey from babilon to ierusalem , viewing the people at the river ahava found none of the sonnes of levi there , afore he would goe any further , he sent unto iddo a the place ca●iphia for ministers for the house of god , ezra . . . &c. and when being come to ierusalem they found by the law , that it was an ordinance of god to dwell in boothes , and keepe the feast of tabernacles in the seventh month , they presently set upon the practice thereof , in the appointed season ; when the like had not beene done in israel , from the dayes o● ioshua the son of nun unto that day , neh. . . &c. yea , and our lord jesus himselfe , though ●ee had no need of sacraments , to be to him any scale of remission or forgivenesse of sinnes , yet in conscience to the ordinance of god , ( that he might fullfill all righteousnesse , mat. . ▪ ) and for our example , did both observe the passover , and likewise was baptized , and did eat with his disciples at his last supper . all which examples being written for our learning , doe shew us how farre wee should bee from contenting our selves to live in the voluntary want of any ordinance and appointment of god. . there is none of the ordinances of christ , but they are needfull and very profitable in the right use of them to the soules of his servants : and therefore they should not be neglected . to thinke of any of them , as things that may well bee spared ; and therefore to content our selves to be without them , is to call in question the wisdome of him that did appoint them , and to make our selves wiser then god. . our owne infirmities and spirituall w●nts are such , as that wee have continuall need of all the holy meanes which the lord hath appointed , for supplying what is wanting in us ; for correcting what is amisse ; and for our continuance and growth in grace . hee is a proud man , and knowes not his own heart in any measure , who thinkes he may well be without any spirituall institution and ordinance of jesus christ . upon these and such like ground , we hold i● not lawfull nor safe , for any christian that is free , to continue such standing in the parish assemblies where he cannot enjoy all the spiritual and holy ordinances of christ . and hereupon we do exhort you lovingly in the lord , to take heed that this be not the sinne of any of you , nor of any other , whom your example may embolden thereunto : for necessity is laid upon you , and upon all christians , by th●se and such like grounds of the holy word of the lord ; that neither you , nor others doe live in the voluntary want of any holy ordinance of christ jesus , but either ●et them up , and observe them in the places where you are ; or else ( if you bee free ) to remove for the enjoyment of them , to some place where they may be had ; and it may be of the two , rather this latter . for sometimes i● israel sacrifice to their god in the land , they shall sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians to the lord : and ●o say they , shall wee sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians before their eyes , and will they not stone us ? it is better therefore in such a case to goe into the wildernesse , and to do it there , exo. . . , . hos . . . mat. . . as for that opinion that may be in the minds of some , that if any ordinance of goa be wanting , it is the sinne of them that are in authority , and they must answer for it ? but the people of god may without sinne , live in the want of such ordinances as superiors provide not for them . the answer hereuntois , that indeed the ordinances of god may more peaceably and quietly bee observed where the commandement and countenance of magistrates is afforded ; for then is fullfilled the saying that is written , kings shall bee thy nursing fathers , and queens thy nursing mothers , esa . . . and doubtlesse it is a great blessing , when god ( that hath the hearts of kings and princes in his hands , prov. . . ) doth incline them to favour , and further the service of the house of god , as somtimes he doth , even when themselves are alients and strangers . cyrus , darius , and artaxerxes , gave great countenance and incouragement to the jewes to build the house of god , that they might offer sacrifices of sweet savour to the god of heaven , and pray for the life of the king and of his sonnes , ezra . , . i● which case good ezra blesseth the lord , that had put such a thing into the kings heart , to beautifie the house of the god of heaven , ezra . . and therefore kings and all in authority , should be prayed for , that we may lead a godly and peaceable life , in godlinesse and honesty , tim. . , . neverthelesse , the things that are ordained and commanded of god , the observing of them in a peaceable way ( yeilding out reverence to all that are in authority , and praying for them ) this observing of the ordinances of god cannot be unlawfull , for lack of the commandement of man , as appeares by the doctrine and pract●ce of the apostles , act. . . & . . and the approved practise of believers in their times , if they had neglected the ordinances of god and namely church ordinances , till they had had the commandement of magistrate therein , such neglect would have beene their grievous sinne , and for ought we know they might have lived and died without them , the magistrates at that time be●ng all either heathens or jewes , yet enemies ; and if church communion and the exercise of such ordinances , as christ hath appointed for his churches , was lawfull , and needfull , and profitable , when magistrates were enemies to the gospell ; and bee not so when magistrates doe professe the gospell , we doe not see but christians may sometimes be losers by having christian magistrates , and in worse condition , then if they had none but professed e●emies . besides this , if ▪ superiors should neglect to provide bodily sustenance for them that are under their charge ; we doe not thinke that any mans conscience would be so scrupulous , but hee would thinke it lawfull b●y all good meanes to provide for himself in such case , rather then to sit ▪ still and say , if i perish for hunger , it is the sinne of them that have authority over mee , and they must answer for it : neither can we tell how the conscience of any christian can excuse himself , if he thinks no● the ordinances of christ , as necessary for the good of his soule , as food is necessary for his temporall life ; or doe not willingly in this spirituall hunger break through stone walls as the proverbe i● , and runne from sea to sea to seeke god in his owne way , rather then to perish without spirituall food , because others provide not for him . and this is our answer to this eleventh quere , concerning your standing in the parish assemblies : which answer of ours , and the exhortation therein , as we pray the father of mercies to make effectuall by his blessing for those good ends , which wee intend therein , so wee cannot in the same , but reflect upon our selves and our owne wayes in times past ; as seeing not a little cause to judge our selves before the lord , as long as wee live , for our sinfull ignorance and negligence , when wee were in england , ●o observe and walke according to those rules of the word , which now upon occasion given by this qu. wee doe commend to your selves and other christians . the lord in mercy pardon our offences , and direct your selves and his servants in ●ur deare native countrey , both in remaining and removing to doe that which is pleasing in his sight . whereas this qu. in the first clause and last but one compared together speakes of believers out of the kingdome of god , and possibility of salvation , we conceive it is a contradiction , for those that are true believers , cannot be out of possibility of salva●on , but possibly may , yea most undoubtedly shall bee saved , joh. . . and . . the contrary whereof is to overthrow all the promises of the gospell , and with the papists and arminians to establish falling from grace . . for that saying , extra ecclesiam non est salus , wee conceive it cannot be universally true , if it be meant of the visible church , which in the new-testament is a particular congregation ; but onely being taken for the church invisible , or the vniversall church , which is the whole company of the elect in heaven , in earth , and not yet borne , ioh. . . and . . out of which elected company there is not one that shall be saved , nor any of the elect neither , but in the way of regeneration , ioh . . but as for the visible , we believe the old saying is true , there are many wolves within , and many sheepe without , joh. . . and therefore it cannot be universally true , that out of the visible church there is no salvation : inasmuch as all christs sheepe shall be saved , ioh. . . of whom yet notwithstanding there are some not joyned to the visible church : if the thiefe that repented on the crosse was a gentile , as it was possible he was ; then hee was uncircumcised , and then it will trouble a man to tell of what visible church he was : and yet there is no doubt but he was saved . the like may be said of iob and of his friends , of whose salvation we make no question , and yet it is a great question whether they were of any visible church or no , inasmuch as the visible church in those times seemed to be appropriated to the house and posterity of abraham , isaac , and iacob , of which line & race it cannot easily be proved that all these men did come , nor that they joined themselves in visible fellowship with that church . the centurion , mat. . . and the woman of canaan , mat. . were both of them believers and saved , and yet it doth not appeare that they were members of the visible church of the iews , which was the only visible church of god in those times . men of yeares ought to be believers , and so in the state of salvation afore they be joyned to the visible church , and therefore there may be salvation out of that church : for it is possible that such an one as being a believer is fit to bee joyned to the church m●y di● and depart this life afore hee can bee joyned , as that good emperour valenti●ian . died before hee could bee baptize● . and for your selves if you should thinke that baptisme makes men members of the visible church ; as is intimated in your fourth question : you may not then deny but there may be salvation out of the visible church : unlesse you will say that there is no salvation without baptisme , which we believe is farre from you to imagine . . we doe hold that so ; oft and so long as a believer doth not joyne himselfe as a member to some particular congregation or other , so oft and so long : he is without the church in the apostles sence , cor. . for the church in the apostles sence , is a particular congregation ; for he writeth to , and of the church at corinth , which church was a particular congregation , cor. , , & . . & . . . and having power of judgeing her own members ( as all visible churches have ) yet had no power of judgeing any , but such as were within that particular congregation , as all them they had power to judge , whether they were believers in christ or no. mr. b●i●● ( as we said before ) is very large and cleare in proving this position , that the churches instituted by christ and the apostles , were only such as might meet in one congregation ordinarily , and answers many objections to the contrary , di●ces . tryal . q. . . for the question it selfe , we hold that every believer ( if possibly he can ) is alwayes bound to joyne himselfe as a member to some particular congregation or other ; and yet not because , else he is a heathen and publican , or out of possibilitie of salvation , as this question suggests , but upon other grounds . . because of the commandment of god , cant. . . math. . . . . because willingly not to doe this is a secret disparagement to the wisdome of god that hath ordained ▪ churches with giving power and privilegdes therunto mat. . . cor. . . and promises of his gracions presence to be with them and amongst them , mat. . . rev. . . exod. . . now to what end were all these , if believers should live and no● joyne themselves to some church ? these priviledges and promises would in such case be all in vain , and the mercy of god offered therin , unthankfully neglected . thirdly , voluntarily abstaining from joyning to the church is noted and condemned as a sinne , heb. . . and a signe of fearefull unbelievers , act. . . of the rest durst no man joyne unto them . fourthly , good men in scripture have been forward in practise this way , isay . , . zach. . . act. . , . and . . and have mourned with much bitternesse when they have been deprived of liberty so to doe , isay . . and ps . . and . and . fiftly , this joyning is a part of that order , and orderly walking which is required of believers , col. . . cor. . . sixtly , if believers doe neglect this joyning , it is not onely a wrong to themselves , but also a great unkindnesse to god : for if one believer may doe this , why not another , and if two why not three , foure &c. and ▪ if all believers should doe thus , god should have no visible churches upon earth , unles he will acknowledge the assemblies to be of unbelievers churches : foras stones in the mountains are not an house untill they be joyned together , though they be digged up out of the quarry , and squared & hewn , and hereby are made fit to be joyned together , and so to become an house : so believers are not a church till they be joyned in holy covenant in some congregation , though the worke , of grace and faith in their soules have made them fit , and meete to be a church of god , which is the house of the living god : or as the humane soule and body are not a man unlesse they be united ; so christian or believers are not a visible church without visible union into some particular . congregation . mr. perkins having said that forth of the militant church : there are no meanes of salvation , no preaching of gods word , no invocation of gods name , no sacraments , and therefore no salvation ; concludes with these words ; for this cause every man must be admonished evermore to joyn himselfe to some particular church , being a sound member of the catholick church , expos . of creed in the article of the church ; and doctor ames gives . reasons , why every christian should ioyne himselfe to some particular church or other cas . cons● . l. . c. . q. . and in another place he hath these words . illi igitur qui ▪ occasion●● habent adjungendi sese ecclesiae , & ●am negligunt , gravissimè peccant , non tantum in deum ratione institutionis , sed etiam in suas proprias animas ratione benedictionis adjunctae , etsi obstinatè persistant in ipsa incu●ia , quicquid alias profitentur , vix possunt haberi pro fidelibus regnum dei verè quaerentibus . medul . theol. l. . c. . sect. . first , whereas this th . question speakes of private and illiterate persons into a church body combined , wee looke at this as an incongruous expression , if not a contradiction . for a company so combined as to make a church , are not fitly called private , ( though they be illiterate in respect of humane learning ) in as much as a church or a church-body , especially in times and places of peace and liberty , is a publike congregation and society : and the acts of communion which they have among themselves ( such as is the election and deposing of ministers , whereof the question makes mention ) are not private acts but publike or people-like . neither are literate or learned men therefore publike , because they are indued with humane learning , unlesse withall they be called to publike office or imployment in church or common-wealth : and therefore if illiterate be an exegesis of private , we conceive that exegesis is not good . secondly , whereas this question asketh whether it be lawfull and convenient that such a company should themselvs ordinarily examine elect , ordain and depose their owne ministers ? if ordinarily be as much as frequently , we answer three things . first , that if one church doe frequently come to such actions , that is , to take in and put out the same men , this is not without suspition of much levity and rashnesse in the people , or unfaithfulnesse or unworthy walking in the ministers , or both ; and therefore ordinar●ly , that is , frequent taking in and putting out againe in this manner , is as much as may be to be avoided . secondly , when such things doe often and frequently fall out , it is doubtlesse a judgement of god upon such a people to have so many changes in their ministers ; as was that of which it was said , three shepheards have i cut off in one moneth , zach. . . that people should be so oft as sheep having no shepheard ; for the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof , pro. . . so in like sort for the transgressions of a church many are the ministers thereof ; we meane , when they have many ministers , by the comming in and going out of the same men , or the removing of some and the taking in of others in their roome : for otherwise , it is a blessing of god , when a church is furnished with variety of ministers at the same time , acts . . & . . phil. . . thirdly , yet this word ( ordinarily ) doth seeme to imply , that in your judgement sometimes this may be lawfull and convenient to be done ; now upon the same ground on which it may be done sometimes , upon the same it may be done at other times , if there be just occasion . thirdly , for the assistance of the ministers of other churches , of which this question maketh mention , if this be onely by way of counsell or advice , we know nothing unlawfull or inconvenient in such assistance , because churches are as sisters one to another , cant. . . and therefore it is our practice in ordination of ministers , as also in removall of them , to have such assistance . but for authority and power , we know none that ministers have properly so called in any congregation or church , save that one , over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers : and therefore we thinke it not lawfull nor convenient , when a church is to ordaine officers , to call in such assistance ( viz. by way of authority or power ) of the ministers of other churches . fourthly , we judge it lawfull and convenient that every church of christ ( what ever their humane learning be , whether much or lesse ) should elect and choose their ministers : god doth not ( for ought we know ) give this power of calling their owne ministers unto such churches as have many learned men in them , and deny it unto others ; but gives it indifferently to every church , as they are a church , and so to one church as much as to another . if we thought you doubted whether the power of calling ministers were given by christ unto the church , we might here alledge many reasons for it ; but this being the constant judgement of the eminent lights of this age , and the former who have been studious of reformation , wee must hope ( till we hear to the contrary ) that your selves do not differ from them in this point . as for us , those grounds and reasons from the holy scripture which are alledged by calvin , zanchius , mr cartwright , dr ames , and ( ) others doe satisfie us in this particular . ( ) institut . . . . ( ) de redemp . in . praecep . p. . . &c. who alledgeth bucer and musculus . ( ) . reply p. . &c. ( ) m●dul . theol. l. . c. . sect. & cas . consc . lib. . c. . q. . ( ) demonist . of disc . c. . fifthly as for that objection which seemes to be implyed in the word illiterate , that it should not be lawfull or convenient for a body to choose their owne ministers , because they are illiterate , or want men of humane learning among them , wee further answere thereto ; first , that among us when a company are to be combined into a church-body , ( as you speake ) there is usually one or other among them who doe not want all humane learning but have been trained up in universities and usually have been ministers and preachers of the word in our native countrey , and approved by the godly there ; and are here by the company that doe so combine intended to be chosen afterwards for pastors or teachers : and accordingly , after the church is gathered , are in due time elected and ordained into their places . secondly , but yet if there were none such among them at their first combining and uniting , we doe not see how this could hinder them of liberty to choose ministers to themselves afterward , when god shall send any to them that may be fit for the worke ; because this is a liberty that christ hath purchased for them by his precious bloud , and they that are fit matter to bee combined into a church-body , are not so illiterate but they have learned the doctrine of the holy scripture in the fundamentall points thereof ; they have learned to know the lord and their owne hearts , they have learned christ , the need they have of him , and of all the meanes of enjoying him , the worth that is in him , and the happinesse laid up for them in him : and therefore they may not be reproached as illiterate or unworthy to choose their owne ministers : nay , they have the best learning , without which all other learning is but madnesse and folly , and science falsly so called , tim. . . and indeed of none account with god , nor available for direction and guidance in the affaires of the house of god , such as is this election of ministers , nor for the salvation of the soule in another world , cor. . . . & . ▪ job . . . though it may be , and is very usefull therewith . thirdly , you know and ( we doubt not ) doe abhorre as much as wee the spirit of those men that are proud of their owne learning , and vilified believers in christ for want thereof , saying , doe any of the rulers , or of the pharisees believe in him ? but this people which know not the law are cursed , john . . . . first , a company of fourty persons , or twenty , or lesse , is not such a small company , but they may be a church properly and truely so called , if there be nothing against them but this , that such a number may seeme not sufficient : we do not finde that god doth any where say , they must be above fourty , or else they cannot be a church ; and therefore no mortall man can justly say it : nay , rather that speech of christ , of two or three gathered together in his name , matth. . . doth plainly imply that if there be a greater number then two or three , whom they being not satisfied in the answere of an offendor may appeale unto , and in so doing tell the church , such a small number may be a church , and may have the blessing of his presence to be among them . besides , the time hath been , in the dayes of adam and noah , when there was not fourty persons in the world , and yet adams family in his time , and noah● in his , was in those dayes a church , if there was any church on earth . and if christ and his twelve disciples were the first christian church , it is too much for any man to say , that twenty or fourty is such a small company that they cannot be a church . secondly , for the matter of government , there is a difference between ability and right : in respect of the former , in as much as some cases are more difficult then others , and some churches of lesse spirituall abilities then others , and god doth not afford assistance and direction at some times so much as at others ; therefore in such cases it is requisite that churches should seeke for light , and counsell , and advice , from other churches : as the church at antioch did send unto the church at ierusalem in a question , which could not bee determined among themselves , act. . . but this is not because they have no right , but when they are not able . thirdly , as for right let it be considered how the church at antioch did long endevour to have ended that matter amongst themselves , before they determined to send to ierusalem , vers . . which shewes that they had power or right to have transacted that businesse among themselves , if ability had served ; or otherwise , that endevour had been sinfull , as being a presuming to doe that , whereunto they had no right . we conceive then that every church , properly so called , though they be not above fourty , or twenty persons , or ten , or the least number that you mention , have right and power from christ to transact all their owne ecclesiasticall businesses among themselves , if so be they be able , and carry matters justly , and according to the rules of the word . the power of the keyes , matth. . . among other things noteth ministeriall or delegated power of government ; and this power is committed by christ unto the church , as may appeare , if wee consider , first , to whom christ directed his speech in that place of scripture ; not to peter alone , but to all the disciples also , for to them all the question was propounded by christ , vers . . and ●eter answered in all their names . secondly , that he and they were not then looked upon as apostles , or generall officers of all churches ( for that commission was not yet given them ) but as disciples and beleevers , believing with the heart , and confessing with the mouth jesus christ , the rocke upon whom the church is built ; wherein as they did represent all believers , so in peter and the rest , the keyes are committed to all believers that shall joine together in the same confession , according to the order and ordinance of christ . and therefore afterward this power of government is expresly given to the church , matth. . . according hereunto in that description of the visible church , as it is instituted by christ in the new testament , rev. . the members of the church are seene by john in a vision sitting on thrones , cloathed with white rayment , having on their heads crownes of gold , vers . . now thrones and crownes are ensignes of authority and power , to note unto us that authority and governing power , which is committed by christ unto the church . doctor fulke hath this saying ; the keyes of the kingdome of heaven ( whatsoever they are ) be committed to the whole church , and not to one person onely , as cyprian , augustine , chrysostome , jerome , and all the ancient doctors ( agreeably to the scriptures ) doe confesse , against the popes pardons chap. . p. . and elsewhere he saith ; the authority of excommunication pertaineth to the whole church , although the judgement and execution thereof is to be referred to the governours of the church ; which exercise that authority , as in the name of christ , so in the name of the who●e church whereof they are appointed governours , to avoid confusion : against the rhemists on cor. . sect. . and doctor whitaker hath these words : hoc est quod nos dicimus petrum gessisse personam omnium apostolorum ; quare hanc promissionem non uni petro , sed toti ecclesiae factam esse , & totam ecclesiam in illo claves accepisse . de pontif . roman . q. . c. . sect. . and in that booke hee is pregnant and plaine in this , that by the keyes is meant all ecclesiasticall power and jurisdiction , and that these keyes are given in peter to the whole church : the same is also taught by master parker polit. eccles . l. . c. . . . . , . where he proves by many arguments , that every visible church ( which hee acknowledgeth to be no other but a particular congregation ) hath the power of all ecclesiasticall government and jurisdiction commited to it by christ jesus ; and answereth many objections to the contrary : and page of that third book , making mention of foure opinions concerning those words of the keyes , and power of binding and loosing matth. . . the first of them that understand the pope onely to be meant thereby as peters successour : the second of them that understand it of the diocesan bishop : the third of them that understand those words as meant of the ministers but the ministers alone : the fourth of them that understand peter to represent the church in that place , and therefore that that promise is made unto the church : of these he refuseth the three first as unsound , and maintaines the fourth as onely agreeing to the truth . and master baine saith , every church by christs institution hath power of government , dioces . tryall quest . . p. . and hee tells us page . what hee meant by church : the word church ( saith he ) wee understand here not figuratively tataken metonymically for the place , syn●cdochecally for ministers administring ordinances ; but properly , for a body politicke standing of people to be taught and governed , and of teachers and governours : so that in his judgement every church ( properly so called ) hath power of government within it selfe : and by these words of his it may also be concluded , that all power of government is not in the elders alone for the power of government by church institution is in every church properly so called ; but ministers are not a church in propriety of speech , but onely figuratively by a synecdoche ; and therefore all power of government is not in the ministers alone , but a church properly so called is the body politique , consisting of people and ministers : but of this more may bee said in the next question . fourthly , for the matters of independency , whereof this question also makes mention : we doe confesse the church is not so independent but that it ought to dep●nd on christ both for direction from the rules of his holy word , ioh. . . act. . . and for the assistance of his holy spirit , to discerne those rules , and to walke according to them when they shall be discerned , ioh. ● . . and . . but for dependency upon men , or other churches , or other subordination unto them in regard of church government or power , wee know not of any such appointed by christ in his word . our saviours words are plaine , if a man heare not the chu●ch , let him beto thee as an heathen or publican . and his promise unto his church is plaine also , that whatsoever they shall binde on earth , shall be bound in heaven , &c. mat. . . &c. and the apostle bids the church deliver the impenitent sinner unto satan , cor. . . , . now when the man upon the churches censure comes to be in case as an heathen or publican , yea becomes bound in heaven as well as bound in earth , and also delivered unto satan , this seems to us to be such a firme ratification of the churches censure , as leaves no roome for any other ecclesiasticall power on earth to reverse or disanull the same , and so takes away that kinde of dependency and subordination of churches . nos plane dicimus ●cclesias initiò regi solitas esse à suis pastoribus , sic quidem ut nullis essent externis , aut ecclesi●s , aut episcopis subditae , non colossensis , ephaesi●ae , non philippensis , thessaloniensi , non h● romanae , non romanae cuiquam , se● paris omnes inter se juris essent , id est , sui omnes juris et mancipij whitak de pontif. roman . question . chapter . section . that is in summe . the churches were not dependent and subordinate to others , but all of them absolutely free , and independent . wee affirme saith master baine , that all churches were singular congregations equall in dependent each of other in regard of subjection , diocesse tryall . q . pag. . the twentieth chapter of mr. parker his third booke of eccles . politie , hath this title de summitate ecclesiae particularis . and the title of the . is , de paritate ecclesiarum , where he openeth and explaineth , and by many arguments and testimonies confirmeth what we hold of the independency and paritie of churches , to which learned discourse of his , we referre you for further satisfaction in this point . wee doe believe that christ hath ordained that there should be a presbytery or eldership , tim. . . and that in every church , ●it . . acts . . cor. . . whose worke is to teach and rule the church by the word and lawes of christ , tim. . ● and unto whom so teaching and ruling all the people ought to be obedient and submit themselves , heb. . . and therefore a government meerly popular or democraticall ( which divines and orthodox writers doe so much condemne in morillius , and such like ) is farre from the practice of these churches , and we believe farre from the minde of christ . secondly , neverthelesse a government meerely aristocratical , wherein the church government is so in the hands of some elders , as that the rest of the body are wholly excluded from entermedling by way of power therein , such a government we conceive also to be without warrant of the word , and likewise to be injurious to the people , as infringing that liberty which christ hath given to them in choosing their owne officers , in admitting of members , and censuring of offendors , even ministers themselves when they be such ; as the church of colosse must admonish archippus of his duety , col. . . master parker you know hath . arguments to prove the superiority of the churches over and above her officers , polit. eccles . lib. . cap. . and master baine saith , if the church have power by election to choose a minister , and so power of instituting him , then of destituting also : instituere & destituere ejusdem est potestatis , dioces . triall p. . and againe , no reason evinceth the pope , though a generall pastors subject to the censure of a church oecumenicall , but the same proveth a diocesan bishop ( and wee may adde , and a congregationall minister ) subject to the censure of the particular church , pag. . and whereas it might be objected , then may sheep censure the shepherd , children their fathers , which were absurd . to this he answereth , that similitudes hold not in all things , naturall parents are no waies children , nor in state of subjection to their children : but spirituall fathers are so fathers , that in some respects they are children to the whole church . so shepherds are no waies sheep , but ministers are in regard of the whole church . . parents and shepherds are absolutely parents and shepherds , bee they good or evill , but spirituall parents and pastors are no longer so , then they do accordingly behave themselves p. . ( to the same purpose and more a● large is this objection answered by master parker , polit. eccles . l. . c. . p. . . and againe , if their owne churches have no power over them , it will be hard to shew wherein others have such power of jurisdiction over persons who belong not to their owne churches , p. . so that all power is not in the officers alone , seeing the officers themselves , if they offend , are under the power of the church . even paul himselfe though an extraordinary officer , yet would not take upon him to excommunicate the incestuous person , without the church , but sends to them exhorting them to doe it ; and blames them because they had not done it sooner , cor. . which shewes that the exercise of all church power of government , is not in the officers alone : and therefore the lord iesus reproving pergamus and thyatira for suffering balaamites , nicholaitans , and the woman iezebel among them , and calling on them for reformation herein , rev. . sends his epistle , not onely to the angels of those churches , but also to the churches , or whole congregations , as appeareth rev. . . and also in the conclusion of those epistle , where the words are , let him that hath an eare heare what the spirit saith , ( not onely to the angels ) but unto the churches ; whereby it appeares , that the suffering of these corrupt persons and practises , was the sinne of the whole church , and the reforming of them , a duty required of them all ▪ now the reforming of abuses in the church , argues some exercise of church government , as the suffering of them argues some remissenesse therein ; and therefore it followes , that some exercise of church government was required of the whole church and not all of the angels alone . sure it is the whole congregation of israel thought it their duty to see to the reforming of abuses , when they appeared to spring up amongst them , as appeareth by their behaviour & practise when the two tribes and an halfe had set up the altar upon the bankes of jordan , ios . . for it is said , that the whole congregation of the children of israel gathered themselves together at shilo , to go up to warre against them , v. . and when phineas and ten princes with him , were sent to expostulate with them about the matter , it was the whole congregation that sent them , v. , . and when they delivered their message they spake in the name of the whole congregation , saying , thus saith the whole congregation of the lord , what trespasse is this ? &c. v. . which plainely declares , that the whole congregation ( and not the elders or rulers alone ) thought it their duty to see abuses reformed and redressed , which could not be without some exercise of government . and when achan the sonne of ca●mi had committed a trespasse in the accursed thing , ●is . . it is counted the sinne of the whole congregation and such a sinne as brought a plague upon them all : for it is said the children of israel committed a trespasse in the accursed thing , v. . and god saith to ioshua ( not the el●ers have sinned , but ) israel hath sinned , and they have transgressed my covenant , and they have stolne of the accursed thing , and put it among their owne stuffe . v. . and for this , wrath fell on all the congregation of israel , and that man perished not alone in his iniquity , iosh . . . now why should not he have perished alone , but wrath must fall upon them all ? and why should his sinne , be the sinne of all the congregation , if the care of preventing it , and timely suppressing the same , ( which could not be without some exercise of church government ) had not bin a duty lying upon all the whole congregation , but upon the elders and officers alone ? doubtlesse the just lord , who saith , every man shall beare his owne burden , gal. . . would not have brought wrath upon all the congregation for achans sinne , if such government as might have prevented , or timely reformed the same , had not belonged to the whole congregation , but to the elders alone . and before this time all the children of israel ( and not the elders alone ) are commanded to put lepers and uncleane persons out of the campe , numb . . , . by all which it appeareth , that all exercise of church government is not in the elders alone , but some power is in the people . and else-where he counts it no sacriledge for members of the church , though not in office , to handle those keyes , mat. . but rather a frivolous thing to thinke otherwise ; quasi absque sacrilegio , saith he , tractare claves priva●i nequeant , qui e●●s privatim tractare jubeatur . quoties fratres suos admonere , consolari , et aedificare . imò ve●ò est & publica clavium tractatio quam plebs christiana in unum coacta sine ullo sacrilegio ministrat , cor. . polit. eccles . l. . c. . p. . and yet this is not a singular conceit of his or ours , but the concurrent judgement of many worthy witnesses of the truth in these latter dayes , who do with great consent hold the ecclesiasticall government to be of a mixt form compounded of all three estates , and that the people are not to be wholly excluded from having any thing to do therein . si velimus christum ipsum respicere , fuit semper ecclesiae regimen monarchicum : si ecclesiae presbyter●s , qui in doctrina et disciplina suas partes agebant , aristocraticum : si totum corpus ecclesiae quatenus in electione episcoporum et presbyterorum suffragia ferebat , it a tamen ut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semper à presbyteris servaretur , democraticum : sic partim aristocritum partim democraticum , partim etiam monarchicum est , semper que fuit ecclesiae regimen , whita . de pontif . rom. qu. . c. . sect . . the church ( saith mr. cartwright ) is governed with that kinde of government , which the philosophers that write of the best common-wealths affirme to be the best . for in respect of christ the head it is a monarchy , and in respect of the ancients and pastors that governe in common and with like authority among themselves , it is an aristocraty , or rule of the best men ; and in respect that the people are not secluded , but have their interest in church matters , it is a democraty , or popular state , reply p. . and when dr. whitegift , from the doctrine of the authors of the admonition would infer this consequence , viz. that then the more that ruled the better estate it should be , and so the popular state should be the best : in answer hereunto he saith , i have spoken of this before , where i declared that the mixed estate is best , both by the example of the kingdome of christ , and also of this our realme , pag. . . and againe , whereas mr. dr. saith , that excommunication , and consequently absolution or restoring to the church again pertaineth only to the minister : it remaineth that i shew that the presbytery or eldership , and the whole church also , hath interest in the excommunication , and consequently in the absolution or restoring unto the church againe , p. . and againe , it is certaine saint paul did both understand and observe the rule of our saviour christ ( viz. that rule , mat. . tell the church ) but he communicateth this power of excommunication with the church : and therefore it must needs be the meaning of our saviour christ , that the excommunication should be by many , and not by one , and by the church , and not by the minister of the church alone , for hee biddeth the church of corinth twise in the first epistle , once by a metaphor , another time in plaine words , that they should excommunicate the incestuous person . and in the d. epistle , understanding of the repentance of the man , he intreateth them that they would receive him again : and therfore considering that the absolution of the excommunication doth pertain unto the churches , it followeth that the excommunication doth in like manner appertainunto it , p. . and again that the ancients had the ordering of these things , and that the peoples consent was required , & that the ministers did not take upon them of their own authority to excommunicate , &c. it may appeare almost in every page of cyprians epistles . in augustines time it appeareth also , that that consent of the church was required , p. . to these may be added , mr. fenner , who speaking of the ecclesiasticall presbytery , and of the businesse which the presbytery is to deale in , which hee distinguisheth into judiciarie , as deciding of doubts , and dispencing of censures . and extrajudiciary , as election , ordination &c. hath these words , atque haec sunt negotia quae praestari debent : in quibus per omnes ecclesias summa ecclesiastica potestas presbyterio demandata est , ita tamen ut in his quae maximi sunt momenti , et ad ecclesiae totius bonum velruinam maxime spectant , post 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suam de his captum consilia ecclesiae denunciantur , ut si quid habeant quod consulant vel objiciant in ●●edium proferant : postea , autem auditis et assentien ibus ( nisi ad majorem senatum negotium deferri fuerit , necesse ad turbas vita●das sive componendas , quod tum cum major pars ecclesiae dissentit , faciendum est ) decervenda et pro decretis ecclesiis pro●onenda sunt , and then he declares what hee meanes by those matters maxim momenti , viz. excommunication , absolution , elections , and deposings of ministers and such like , sacrae the. lib. . c . wherin he plainly sheweth , that though the power of the presbytery be very great yet in things of greatest moment , as censures and elections , the people if they have any thing to counsell or object , have liberty to bring it in ; and afterwards matters are to be concluded when they have bin heard speake , and have given their consent , for which liberty and power of the people , he bringeth these scriptures , chro. . . acts . . . . cor. . . & cor. . . . zanchius speaking of that question , per quos exerceri debet excommunicatio , answers thus , nempe per ecclesia● , seu per ministros ecclesiae nomine , eoque et cum consensu totius ecclesiae promissio illa , quaecunque ligaveritis , ad totam ecclesiam est facta , ergo &c. praeterea apostolus hoc expressius declaravit , cor. . congregatis vobis , &c. alloquebatur autem totam ecclesiam . patres idem docent : cyprianus ad cornelium rom. episcopum seribit se multum laborasse apud plebem , ut par daretur lapsis p●enitentibus : si ergo non erat unius episcopi cum suo presbyterio solvere quempiam , sed requirebatur plebis eoque totius ecclesiae consensus : ergo neque ligari quispiam poterat , id est excommunicari , sine totius ecclesiae consensu . augustinus etiam contra donatistas ait , supersedendum esse excommunicatione quando tota plebs laborant eodem merbo , quid ita ? causam adfert , quia inquit , non assentientur excommunicationi . &c. satis aperte docet tunc temporis non solitum fuisse excommunicationem ferri in quempiam sine totius ecclesiae consensu ; et ratio est in promptu , quae enim adomnes pertinent eum consensu omnium fieri debent : ergo sine totius ecclesiae consensu excommunicari nemo debet . and then comparing the government of the church , to the roman common-wealth which had the dictators , the senate and the quirites , and shewing that the church government in respect of christ is a monarchy , in respect of the presbyters an aristocratie , and in respect of the people a democratie , he concludes thus , in rebus igitur gravissimis , quae ad totum corpus pertinent , uti est excommunicatio , sine consensu et authoritate totius ecclesiae nihil fieri debet , de redempt , in prae c. . pag. . &c. calvins words are these , cyprianus cum meminit per quos suo tempore exerceretur ( viz. potestas jurisdictionis ) adjungere solet totum clerum episcopo , sed . libi quoque demonstrat , sic praefuisse clerum ipsum , ut plebs inter●m à cognitione non excluderetur , sic enim scribit ; ab initio episcopatus mei statui sine cleri consilio & plebis consensu nihil agere , instit. . . c. . sect. . and againe , hoc addo , illam esse legitimam in excommunicando homine progressionem quam demonstrat paulus , si non soli seniores seorsim id faciant , sed conscia & approbante ecclesia , in eum scilicet modum , ut plebis multitudo non regat actionem , sed observet , ut testis & custos , ne quid per libidinem à paucis geratur , instit . l. . c. . sect. . those ministers that penned the christian and modest offer of disputation , doe say , that the pastor and elders that exercise ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , ought not to performe any maine and materiall ecclesiasticall act , without the free consent of the congregation , in propos . . the refuter of doctor downams sermon for the superiority of diocesan bishops , is plaine and full also in this point , in part . of his reply p. , . where answering doctor downam , that counted it schismaticall novelty , that the forme of the church government should be holden in part to be democrattcall , and that his refuter for so holding was a brownist or anabaptist ; he not onely proves the power of the people from the scripture , and delivers his owne judgement , that the ecclesiasticall government is of a mixt forme , compounded of all three estates ; but for the same tenent , and that the church government is in part democraticall or popular , he alledgeth the testimonies of the centuries , of illyricus , of doctor fulke . doctor willet , cyprian , augustine , p. martyr , dr whitaker , and others : master baines his judgement we heard before in the former question . vrsinus speaking of that question . quibus commissa est potestas clavium ▪ hath these words : quibus denunciatio verbi divini delegata est , iisdem & potestas illa clavium ; quae verò denunciatio fit in ecclesiastica disciplina est totius ecclesie , ad totam enim ecclesiam pertinet disciplina & jurisdictio spiritualis , sed alio modo fit illa denunciatio in verbi divini ministerio , quam in ecclesiae judicio . and then telling how this denunciation is done in the ministery , and by the ministers of the word , he comes to declare how it is done in church censures : in ecclesiastico judicio ( saith he ) gratiae & irae dei non fit denunciati . ab uno aliquo privatim ▪ sed à tota ecclesia aut nomine totius ecclesiae ' ab its qui ad hoc delecti sunt communi omnium consensu . and a little after answering objections brought against the use of excommunication , he hath these words : potest concedi quod christus non intelligat presbyterium ( viz. in that place matth. . tell the church ) sed propriè sumat vocabulum ecclesiae ante christum jdaicae● , post christum christianae : sed in ecclesiae jurisdictione oportet aliquem esse ordinem , aliquos oportet esse constitutos ab ecclesia , alioquin esset 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and speaking of that question , quis ordo servari debeat in exercenda clavium potestate ( he saith ) principalis pars in excommunicatione est denunciatio , qua &c. atque haec denunciatio qua quis excommunicatur non est penes ministrum ecclesiae , sed penes ipsam ecclesiam , & ejus nomine fit , quia mandatum hoc à christo datum est ecclesiae ; nam ipse ait expressè , dic ecclesiae . and finally , speaking of abuses to be avoided , and cautions to be observed in excommunication , he hath such words in the fourth proposition , or rule there annext , as doe declare it to be his judgement ▪ that if excommunication should be passed by a few , without the consent of the whole church , such proceedings would be both oligarchy and tyranny : attentem expendatum ( saith he ) à toto presbyterio , probetur ab ecclesia , non suscipiatur privat â authoritate , ne ministerium ecclesiae convertatur in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & tyrannidem , in his comment upon the catechisme , in the place de clavibus regni coelorum . pareus delivering certaine porismata or , conclusions concerning excommunication , hath this for the fifth of them , quòd excommunicandi potestas non fit penes unum episcopum , vel paucos pastores , sed penes ecclesiam ; proindelicet pastores & presbyteri ordinis cau ▪ â primas habeant partes circa censuras ecclesiasticas , & per eos h● administrentur ; quod tamen citra consensum ecclesiae pastores ad exclusionem proced●re non debeant , alibi demonstravimus in cor. . and a little after , answering stapletons objections that would have the power of excommunication to be in the bishop alone ▪ he brings in the case of cyprian , who could not absolve the lapsi without the people : cyprianus ( saith hee ) ad cornelium romanum episcopum scribit s● multum apua plebem laborasse ut pax daretur lapsis , quam si per se dare potuisset , non erat cur adeo in persuadenda plebe se fatigasset . so that in the judgement of pareus and cyprian all power of church government was not in the presbyters , but some power was in the people . musculus , although he thinke there be little use of excommunication and church discipline , where there is a christian magistrate , yet when it is to be used , he would not have the people excluded from having any hand therein , as may appeare by those words of his , where he speakes de disciplina ecclesiastica : hisce de rebus non constituet minister suo proprio arbitratu , sed erit ad institutionem earum director , & adhibebit suffragia & consensum sue plebis , ne quicquam invitae ecclesie imponatur . denique curabit ut plebs ipsa viros graves , timentes dei , ac boni testimonii deligat , quorum curâ & vigilantiâ disciplina ecclesiastica administratur , & si quid gravioris momenti accidat , ad ipsam ecclesiam referatur : loc. com . de ministris verbi dei , in tit . de potestate ministrorum p. . and afterward , in the latter end of that place , comming to speake of the deposing of unworthy ministers , he hath these words : quaeritur hic per quos disciplina ista administrari debeat ? respondeo , primum ecclesiae populus potestatem habens elegendi dignum ministrum , habet etiam ( teste cypriano ) potestatem indignum recusandi : deinde qui judices sunt censoresque morum in ecclesia ex officio tenentur redargnere peccantem ministrum , si duobus aut tribus testibus fide dignis coram ecclesia dei convictus fuerit . tertiò , iidem cum consensu & suffragiis plebis deponent ministrum , vel ad ltempus , vel in universum , vel excommunicabunt tandem juxta quaitatem peccati vel defectus illius , p. . doctor ames saith , potestas hujus disciplinae ( viz. of excommunication ) quoad jus ipsum pertinet ad ecclesiam illam in communi , cujus membrum est peccator : ad illos enim pertinet ejicere , ad quos pertinet primò admittere , & corporis totius interest ex aequo membrorum conservatio vel amputatio , cum ecclesi● idcirco consensu ( eoque magistratu non permittente tantum , sed & approbante & constituente ) est executioni mandanda . medul . theol. l. . c. . sect. . lastly , master parker observing a distinction betweene power , and the dispencing of power ; that the one is in the church and the other in the presbyters , hath these words : neque tamen dispensatio omnis , omneque exercitum est penes rectores solos , sed juxta temperamentum formae partim aristocratice , partim democraticae de manda●ae rectoribus suis ecclesi● , que ipsa per se obire satis commodè nequit , retinente vero dispensationem illam illudque exercitium quod & ipsi convenit , & pertinet ad ejus lignitatem , authoritatem , & libertatem à christo donatam . posit . eccles . l. . c. . and elsewhere he saith , imo vero est & publica clavium tractatio , quam plebes christiana in unum coacta , sine ullo acrilegio administrat . polit. eccles . l. c. p. . these testimonies we thought good to produce in this question , lest any should thinke that to give any church power of government to the people , were some singular opinion of ours , swerving from the truth , and disallowed by orthodox writers of the reformed churches ; and no doubt but besides these here cited , the same is taught by ●thers also , whom now we spare to alledge , intending onely ●hese few for a taste instead of many . . and therefore when this question demandeth whe●her we give the exercise of all church power of government to the whole congregation , or to the presbyters thereof alone ? our answer is , neither thus nor so , neither all to ●he people excluding the presbytery , nor all to the presbytery excluding the people . for this were to make the government of the church either meerly democraticall , or meerly aristocraticall , neither of which we believe it ought to be . . whereas this question demandeth to know what acts of government the presbyters may doe more then any other may doe , and to have those particular acts mentioned : this seemeth to us to be a very large demand , for who is able to mention all the particular acts of government , which any one governour may performe in his time , especially if he continue long in his place ? but if your meaning in this point be not of the individualls , but of the species or kinds , yet even there also it is much to require the particular mentioning of all ; yet to give you a taste take these . the calling of assemblies and dismissing of the same againe ; the ordinary preaching of the word , which is done by way of office ; and being the peoples mouth unto god in prayer ; the dispensing of baptisme , and the lords supper : the permitting of any to speak in an orderly way ; and againe enjoining silence : the putting of matters to vote , and pronouncing of sentence in the censure of offendors , or receiving in of penitents after their fall , and blessing of the people in the name of the lord ; these are acts of church government , which the presbyters may doe according to the word and another member may not do without breach of order and presuming above his place . . it is also here demanded , what the presbyters may do without the particular consent of the rest ? to which wee answer , that when they doe what the lord christ ( whose stewards they are ) by his word requires of them in their places , this should not be without the consent of the rest , ●or the rest of the church ought to consent thereto : christs sheep ought to heare his voice , iohn . . and to obey them that speak unto them in his name , heb. . . and if any man should in such case willfully dissent , the church ought to deale with such an one , for not consenting to the will and waies of christ , or else they shall all be guilty of the sinfull dissent of such an one . so that this passage ( if it be meant of presbyters doing their duty ) without the consent of the people , goes upon a supposall ( in respect of the people ) of that which never ought to be , neither are wee to suppose but that there may be rule when the elders and brethren doe not dissent nor are divided one from another : the multitude of them that believed in the first christian church at ierusalem , were of one heart and of one soule , a l. . . yet none needs to doubt , but there was rule and government amongst them , when yet their agreement was such , that the apostles and flders did nothing without the full consent of the rest . it is a miserable mistake either to thinke that in the church of christ the elders and brethren must needs dissent one from another , or if they all consent , that then there can be no ruling but against the peoples minde . they were none of the best shepheards to their flocks unto whom the lord saith , with force and rigour have you ruled them . ezech. . . as for doing any thing in their places ▪ which the word of christ , the lord and master of the church , commandeth not , nor alloweth such things ▪ they neither ought to do nor ought the church to consent unto them if they should ; for that were to make themselves partakers of their rulers sinnes , and so to bring judgement upon them all , as when the priests did wickedly beare rule , and the people loved to have it so , ieremiah . . . lastly , this question demandeth how , and over whom in those acts of government , which are done by the elders more then by other members , or without the consent of the rest , the presbyters doe rule in propriety of speaking more then the rest of the congregation ? wherein are sundry particulars . . how they rule ? whereunto wee answer , that neither the elders nor the people doe rule with lordly and princely rule , and soveraigne authority and power ; for that is proper to christ over his church : who is the onely lord , cor. . . and king and lawgiver that is able to save and to destroy , isa . . . psal . . luk. . . jam. . . the elders are forbidden to be lords over gods heritage , pet. . . or to exercise authority as the kings and princes of the earth doe , matth. . , . luk. . , . they are not so to rule , as to doe what themselves please , but they must do whatsoever christ hath commanded , mat. . . mr. baine sheweth from these words there are diversities of ministeries , but one lord , cor. . . that it is contrary to the scripture that there should be in the church more lords then one : ( and saith he ) look as great lords have in their houses ministers of more and lesse honour , from the steward to the scullery , but no lord-like or master-like power in any besides themselves : so is it with christ and his church , which is the house of god , wherein hee is the lord , apostles and others having more or lesse honourable services , but no masterlike power over the meanest of their fellow servants : on ephes . . . p. . and elsewhere he saith , no minister of the word hath any power but ministeriall in the church , the power of the apostles themselves and evangelists is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts . tim. . yea such a service as doth make the ministers having it so servants , that they are no way lords ; many ministers , one lord ; we preach christ iesus the lord ; our selves your servants for iesus sake , dioces . tryall . q. . p. . the elders are to rule as stewards , mat. . . luke . . as shepheards , act. . . as captaines , guides , leaders or overseers , by going before the people , and shewing them the word and way of the lord , tim. . . . & . . thes . . . h●b . . . . how they rule more then the rest of the congregation do ? whereto the answer is , that this is more then the rest of the congregation doe in these acts , even as acting is more then consenting , and as it is more to be a steward over of the house then one of the household , or to be a guide or leader , then to be guided or led . . over whom they doe rule ? even over the whole church in generall , and every member in particular , even all the flocke over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers , act. . . pet. . . the rule is expresse and plaine that women ought not to speake in the church , but to be in silence , cor. . . tim. , . and therefore they ought not to vote in church matters ; besides voting imports some kind of government , and authority and power : now it is not government and authority , but subjection and obedience which belongs unto women , by the rule , and so is the practice of women amongst us . church matters ought not to be determined meerly by multitude or plurality of votes , but by rules from the word of christ , whose will ▪ ( and not the will either of the major , or minor part of men , ) is the onely rule and law for churches , iam. . . isa . . . mat. . , . exod. . . . . for our practice among us , the major part of the church , yea usually the whole church doth consent and agree in one minde , and one judgement , and so gives a joint unanimus vote ; and the rule requires it should be so rom. . . and the example of the primitive apostolike churches , where things were carried ( nor meerly by the major or minor part , the rest dissenting , but ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or with one accord . act. . . & ● . & . . & ● . . & . . so that in this sence , matters with us are carried according to the vote of the major part , that is , with the joint consent of the whole church , but yet because it is the minde of christ . but it may be your meaning is in this question to take it for granted that the churches will be divided in their votes , and to know what course we take at such times : but if churches lay aside their owne affections , and give attendance to the rule , and be ( as all churches ought to be ) men of humble spirits , and sincere , and withall depend on christ their head and king for guidance , in their worke , we know no necessity of such a supposall , that they must needs be divided in their votes , especially considering what promises he hath made unto his church , of godly concord and agreement among themselves , and of his owne gracious presence in the midst of them , ier. . . zeph. . . mat. . . which promifes we believe are not in vaine . neverthelesse , we deny not but through the corruptions & distempers of men , some dissention may arise for a time in a true church , as it was in the church at corinth : and if any such thing fall out among us ( which we blesse god is not often ) then before matters be put to the vote , our course of proceeding is after this manner . if the elders and major part of the church consent in one conclusion , yet if any brother dissent , he is patiently heard , and his alledgements of scripture or good reasons are duely weighed : if it appeare that his judgement is according to the rule , the whole church will readily yeeld , though before they were otherwise minded . but if it appeare they who dissent from the major part , are factiously or partially carried , the rest labour to convince them of their error by the rule , if they yeeld , the consent of all comfortably concurreth in the matter ; if they still continue obstinate , they are admonished , and so standing under censure , their vote is nullified . if they without obstinate opposition of the rest , doe dissent still , yet referre the matter to the judgement of the major part of the body they are not wont to proceed to sentence ( if the matter be weighty as in excommunication ) till the reasons on both sides have bin duly pondered , and all brotherly means have been used for mutuall information and conviction . if the difference still continue the sentence ( if the matter be weighty ) is still demurred , even till other churches have been consulted with , who in such a case will send their elders to communicate their apprehensions and light , which they do not pro imperio , binding the church to rest in their dictates but by propounding their grounds from the scripture . these courses with gods presence and blessing ( which usually accompanieth his ordinance ) faithfully taken and followed , will prevaile either to settle one unanimous consent in the thing ▪ or at least to preserve peace in the church by the dissentors submission to the judgement of the major part , though they see not light sufficient to warrant them to act in the businesse : such subjection is according to the rule , ephes . . . pet. . . if the church or the elders should refuse the testimony of other churches according to god , they will ( after brotherly admonition and due patient waiting ) deny them the right hand of fellowship , till they shall give better evidence of their subjection to the gospel of christ . but thanks be to god we never had occasion of such withdrawing communion of one church from another , though now and then ( as need requireth ) churches send to other churches for their counsell and advice . meanes to preserve the churches in unitie and verity , and to reforme any that may erre , thankes bee to god we have sundry . first , the holy scriptures , which are a perfect rule for doctrine and practise , tim. . . pet. . . psal . . , . secondly , the ministery appointed by christ , viz. of pastors , teachers , elders , and deacons , ephes . . , . cor . . tim. . . . tim. . , . &c and vers . . and in both these we have frequently holden forth unto us the commandement of god , wherein he requires churches to bee of one mind and one judgement in the truth , cor. . . & . . . ephes . . . & phil. . . & . . . and his promise to lead his people into all truth , and holy agreement therein , jer. . . isa , &c. zeph. . . ioh. . . with many motives and rules from scripture for continuing in the said truth and love . now faith makes use of these promises and submits to these precepts and exhortations , and so both these being mixt with faith are profitable meanes by the blessing of god for that end aforesaid , heb. . . as these churches have found by experience , for these yeares since our comming into this countrey : and any other meanes sanctified of god for the aforesaid end , we hope we should be glad with thankfull hearts to improve and make use of as the lord shall help . as for a platforme of doctrine and discipline which you mention , as one meanes hereunto , if thereby you meane no more but a confession of faith of the holy doctrine which is according to godlinesse , we know nothing but it may be lawfull and expedient in some cases for any particular person that hath received the gift to doe it ; or any church , or a●l the churches in any christian common-wealth , to compile and set forth such a platforme . the practise of those churches , whose confessions are contained in that booke called the harmony of confessions , as also of master robinson at leiden , and others of our nation in other parts in the low-countries , who have published such platformes , we see no reason to condemne or disallow : neither count we it unlawfull or inexpedient for any church or churches , or person or persons in the countrey , upon just occasion to doe the like . but if your meaning be of a platforme to be imposed by authority upon others , or our selves , as a binding rule of faith and practice , so that all men must believe and walke according to that platforme , without adding , altering , or omitting ▪ then we are doubtfull whether such platformes be lawfull or expedient . for if the doctrine contained therein doe in any particular swerve from the doctrine contained in scripture then the imposing of them is so far forth unlawfull ; and if they be according to it , then they may seeme needlesse , in as much as the forme of wholesome words contained in scripture is sufficient . which reason against such platformes , makes nothing against sermons or preaching , though sermons must be according to the doctrine contained in scripture , because preaching is an ordinance of god and therefore not needlesse ; which we cannot say of such platformes . besides , as they are not necessary , so they may be a snare unto men , and a dangerous temptation of attending more to the forme of doctrine delivered from the authority of the church , and the imposers , then to the examining thereof according to the rule of scripture ; and so their faith may by this meanes stand in the wisedome or will of man , rather then in the power of god , as if men had dominion over their faith ; which things ought not so to be , cor. . . & . . ver . christians have liberty from god to search the scriptures , and try all things , and hold fast that which is good , act. . . ioh. . . thess . . . but the foresaid imposing of platformes and confessions compiled by men , doth seeme to abridge them of that liberty ; and if it be any meanes of unity , yet it may be a dangerous hinderance of some verity and degree of truth as binding men to rest in their former apprehensions and knowledge , without liberty , to better their judgement in those points , and shutting the doore against any further light which god may give to his best servants , and most discerning , beyond what they saw at first : and therefore we doubt such imposed platformes are not lawfull , or at least wise not expedient . the consociation of churches into classes and synods we hold to be lawfull and in some cases necessary ; as namely in things that are not peculiar to one church , but common to them all : and likewise when a church is not able to end any matter that concernes onely themselves , then they are to seeke for counsell and advice from neighbour churches ; as the church at antioch did send unto the church at ierusalem , acts . . the ground and use of classes and synods , with the limitations therein to be observed , is summarily laid downe by doctor ames , medul . theol. l . c. . sect. . unto whom we do wholly consent in this matter . but when you speake of doing no weighty matter without the consent and counsell of a classes , we dare not so far restraine the particular churches as fearing this would be to give the c●asses an undue power and more then belongs unto them by the word ; as being also an abridgment of that power which christ hath given to every particular church , to transact their owne matters ( whether more or lesse weighty ) among themselves ( if so be they be able ) without such necessary dependence upon classes , as we have shewed before in answer to q. . sect. . & . of that answere . and master parker testifieth , that in genevah , and in the low-countries , where they have some use of classes , yet it cannot bee said that their particular congregations are absque potestate omni in rebus grandtoribus , ut in excommunicatione ; the particular churches are not without power in the more weighty matters , as in excommunication , polit. eccles . li. . c. . sect. . p. . and master baine sheweth the same , saying , they have power of governing themselves , but for greater edification voluntarily confederate , not to use or exercise their power but with mutuall communion , one asking the counsell and consent of the other , dioces . triall q. . p. . and a little after geneva made his consociation , not as if the prime churches were imperfect , and to make one church by this union ; but because though they were intire churches , and had the power of churches , yet they needed support in exercising of it , &c. which is the very same that wee said before in q. viz. that all churches have right of government within themselves , but some had need of counsell and advice of others , because they are of lesse ability to transact their owne matters of themselves . and master parker in the same place afore alledged in the page immediately precedent , clearly sheweth against doctor downham , doctor sutcliffe , and others , that those particular congregations which have presbyters of their owne , with power within themselves , are the most perfect , and are precisely formed juxta formam illam quae in verbo patefacta est , according to that forme which is revealed in the word ; whereas others which have not the like are more defective and imperfect . and if this be so , then to binde churches to do no weighty matters without the counsell and consent of classes , were to blinde them to bee imperfect . and for synods , if they have such power that their determination shall binde the churches to obedience ( as you speake ) it is more then we yet understand . indeed bellarmine makes bishops in a councell or synod to be judges ; and that standum sit corum sententiae , quia ipsi sic statuerunt , quomodo statur sententia praetoris in causis politicis ; that is , either to obey or suffer : de concil . & eccles . l. . c. . but the orthodoxe writers do not consent to him therein ; for in their judgement the sentence of a councell or synod is onely inquisitio quaedam & dictio sententiae ministrato●ia & limitata , ita ut tantum valeat decretum concilii quantum valeat ejus ratio , as doctor ames hath it in his bellarminus enervatus , upon that place of bellarmine : that is , the sentence of a synod is onely a certaine enquiring and giving of sentence by way of ministery , and with limitation ; so that the decree of the councell hath so much force as there is force in the reason of it . and junius expresseth it thus ; sententia concilii per se ipsam suasionis non coactionis est judicium ministeriale , non authoritatem , per se necessitatemque adferens , animadvers . upon bellarmine in that place : that is , the sentence of a councell is of it selfe onely of advice , not of compulsion or constraint , and brings with it a judgement ministeriall , not authority of it selfe nor necessity ; whereunto we doe wholly consent . as for that clause in this question , that the determination of a synod should binde if not to obedience , yet to peaceable suffering , we know not what sufferings those should be : for punishments in purse or person , in respect of the body or outward man , are not to be inflicted by synods , but by civill magistrates ; and church-censures of excommunication , or the like , belong to the particular church of which an offendor is a member , out of the communion whereof a man cannot be cast , but onely by his owne church . onely christ hath authority to make lawes for the government of each particular church , and the members thereof , and h●s lawes doe oblige all the members , and may not be omitted without sinne , jam. . . jsa . . . ● mat. . , . ●ct . . . but for particular churches , they have no power to make lawes for themselves or their members , but to observe and see all their members observe those laws which christ hath given and commanded mat. . . deu● . . . iohn . . if any church shall presume further , they goe beyond their commission , and in such case their ecclesiasticall lawes may be omitted without sinne , nay it would be sinne to be subject to them col. . . to walke after them , hos . . . to be such servants of men as not to stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , . or . . . gal. . . the outward calling of a minister consisteth properly and essentially in election by the people , as doctor ●mes sheweth , cas . cons . l. . c. . q. . and this election is so essentiall , that without it the ministers calling ( if you speak of an ordinary church officer ) is a nullity ; and therefore mornay , that learned noble man of france , approveth that saying of chrysostome , election by the people is so necessary , as that without it there is neither altar , nor church , nor priest-hood , where ( omitting other things ) it appeares to be their judgement , that without election by the people , the ministery is void ; and mornay addeth of his owne , concerning the bishops amongst the papists , that they were nullá plane 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nulla proinde , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the one presupposed the other , no imposition seeing without election , in his booke of the church , c. . p. . yet sometimes the peoples acceptance and approbation afterward may supply the want of election at the first , as iacobs after consent and acceptance of lea , made her to be his wife , though hee chose her not at the first . and by this we hold the calling of many ministers in england may be excused , who at first came into their places without the consent of the people . if ordination by imposition of hands , were of the essence of a ministers calling then in those churches , where such ordination is not used , their ministers should want a lawfull calling , which were an hard sentence against many ministers in scotland , where ( as is reported ) this ordination is not thought necessary , and therefore used or omitted indifferently . wee looke at ordination by imposition of hands , as a solemne investing of men into their places , whereto they have right and calling by election , like to the inauguration of a magistrate in the common-wealth , yet necessary by divine institution . tim. . . but not so necessary as if the ministers calling were a nullity without it . essentia ipsa vocationis , in electione legitima consistit ; ordinatio pendet ab electione , sicut coronatio principi● , aut magistratus inauguratio , ab electione , successione , aut aequivalente aliqua constitutione . ames bellarm. enervat . lib. . de clericis , c. . sect. . that is , the essence of a ministers calling consists in lawfull election , ordination depends upon election , as the coronation of a prince , or the inauguration of a magistrate , depends upon election , succession , or some other constitution aequivalent . and againe , ritus impositionis manuum non est absolute necessarius ad esse pastoris , non magis quam coronatio ad esse regis , aut celebratio nuptiarum ad earum esse . sect . . that is , the right of imposition of hands is not absolutely necessary to the essence of a pastor , no more then the coronation to the essence of a king , or the celebration of marriage to the essence thereof . ordination of ministers is not a private action but publique , and ought to be done publiquely in the assembly of the church , and therefore the persons that performe it , ( whether they be ordinary church officers or no ) cannot in any congruity of speech be called meere private persons in that action . . the church that hath no officers , may elect officers or ministers unto themselves , therefore it may also ordaine them ; which argument dr. whitaker useth as wee shall see anon . if it have commission and power from christ for the one , and that the greater , it hath it also for the other which is the lesser : now ordination is lesse then election , and depends upon it as a necessary antecedent by divine institution , by vertue of which it is justly administred , being indeed nothing else but the admission of a person lawfully elected into his office , or a putting of him into possession thereof , whereunto he had right before by election , as was said before in answer to the precedent question . . if a church have ministers or elders before , then this ordination is to be performed by the elders of the church , and in their assemblie . tim. . . as also many other acts are to be performed by them . . this ordination thus performed by the elders for the church , may fitly be called the act of the whole church , as it is the whole man that seeth , that heareth , that speaketh , when these acts are instrumentally performed by the eye , the eare , and the tongue , in which sense master parker saith , ecclesia per alios docet , baptisa●que , polit. eccles . l. . c. . p. . . but when a church hath no officers , but the first officers themselves are to be ordained , then this ordination by the rite of imposing of hands may be performed for the church by the most prime grave and able men from among themselves , as the church shall depute hereunto , as the children of israel did lay their hands upon the levites , numb . . . now all the congregation could not impose all their hands upon them together , all their hands could not possibly reach them together , and therefore it must needs be that some of the congregation in the name of the whole body performed this rite : and as this scripture sheweth , that the people may in some cases lay their hands upon church officers , ( for the levites were such , upon whom the children of israel did lay their hands ) so let it be considered , whether these reasons doe not further make it manifest . . men that are in no office may elect , therefore they may ordaine , because ordination is nothing else but the execution of election . . if it were not so then one of these would follow , either that the officers must minister without any ordination at all , or else by vertue of some former ordination received in some other church or else they must be ordained by some other minister or ministers of some other church , that were ordained afore them , and so the ministery to be by succession . but the first of these is against the scripture , tim. . . heb. . . and the second were to establish the popish opinion of the indeleble character , imprinted as they imagine in their sacrament of holy orders . whereas for ought we can discerne . if when they are called to office in any church , they have need of a new election , notwithstanding their former election into another church then they have by the same ground need of a new ordination , for ordination depends upon election : if their former election be ceased , their former ordination is ceased also ; and they can no more minister by vertue of a former ordination unto another church , then by vertue of a former election . and for the third , we doe not understand what authority ordinary officers can have to ordaine ministers to such a church , of which themselves are not so much as members besides at some times , namely at the first reformation after the times of popery , there were no others to be had but from the pope , and his bishops and priests . now it were a pittifull case , if the sheep must have no shepherd but such as are appointed to them by the wolves , that is , if gods people might not have ministers , but onely from the popish bishops . this were to say , either that the ministers of antichrist , must , or may ordaine ministers to the church of christ , or else that the popish bishops are true ministers of christ . and if protestants thinke it necessary , that their first ministers should be ordained by the popish bishops , it is no marvell if the papists do thereupon believe that their church is the true church , and their bishops true ministers . such a scandall is it unto them to maintaine this personall succession of the ministery . but god doth so much abhorre antichrist , that hee would not have his people to seek to him , nor his priests to ordaine christs ministers , as he would not take of babilon a stone for a corner , nor a stone for a foundation , ier. . . . it is thus in civill corporations and cities , the major , bayliffe , or other chiefe officer elect , is at his entrance and inauguration to receive at the hands of his predecessors the sword or keyes of the city , or to have some other solemne ceremonie by him performed unto him yet if either there be no former as at the first or that the former be dead or upon necessity absent , when his successor entreth , then is this ceremony and worke performed by some other , the fittest instrument ; neither need that city borrow any officer of another city , neither could he entermeddle there without usurpation , though both the corporations have the same charter under the same king. and so it is in this spirituall corporation or city , the church of god. . that this point may seeme the lesse strange to you , we pray you consider with us a little further the nature of this ordination , and then wee will adde the testimonies of some eminent protestant writers in this case , that you may see this is not any singular opinion of ours . for the former , some indeed have so highly advanced this ordination , that they have preferred it farre above preaching the word , ministring the sacraments , and prayer , making it and the power of excommunication , the two incommunicable prerogatives of a bishop above an ordinary minister ; yet the scripture teacheth no such thing , but rather the contrary , for when the apostles were sent out by christ , there was no mention of ordination in that commission of theirs , but only of teaching & preaching & baptising mat. . , . mark. . , . if ordination of ministers had bin such a speciall worke , there would belike have bin some mention of it in their commission . and certaine it is , the apostles counted preaching the word their principall worke , and after it prayer , and the ministring of the sacraments , act. . . cor. . . if ordaining of ministers had bin in their account so prime a worke , it may seem paul would rather have tarried in creete to have ordained elders there then have gone himselfe about preaching , seaving titus for the other , tit. . by all which it appeares , that ordaining of ministers is not such an eminent work as that it is to be preferred above preaching the word , and ministring the sacraments , and therefore to be performed by them that are superiours unto ordinary ministers ; preaching and ministring the sacraments , being left as inferiour workes unto ministers , of an inferiour ranke , as they would have it , that stand for the superiority of docesan bishops ; neither is it equall unto those other workes afore mentioned , that onely he that doth those , may performe this other also , as some others thinke ; but being nothing else in the true nature and use of it but the execution and accomplishment and confirmation of election , it may bee performed by the people of god , that yet have no officers , even as election may upon which it doth depend . . lastly , let these sayings of some protestant writers of singular note , either for holinesse , or learning , or both , be well considered of . master perkins saith , succession of doctrine alone is sufficient ; for this rule must bee remembred , that the power of the keyes ( that is , of order and jurisdiction ) is tyed by god and annexed in the new testament to doctrine . if in turkey , or america , or elsewhere , the gospel should be received by the counsell and perswasion of private persons , they need not send into europe for consecrated ministers , but they have power to choose their owne ministers from within themselves ; because where god gives the word he gives the power also ; upon gal. . . doctor willet saith , whereas bellarmine objecteth that as in the old law the priesthood went by carnall generation and lineall descent from aaron , so in the new it must bee derived by succession from the apostles ; we answere , first , that our saviour christ and his apostles could shew no lineall descent from aaron , neither had their ordination from his successors , and yet were the true pastors of the church . and a little after , this we say further , that both before christ there were true pastors and prophets , which were not ordained by the priests of aaron ; and since christ , that received not their ordination successively from the apostles . first , in the old law , when the ordinary priesthood was corrupted , god raised up prophets from other tribes that received not from the priests their ordination and allowance : such an one was amos , who was among heardsmen , and was made a prophet as he was gathering wilde black-berries . after the same manner in the corrupt times of the gospel , the lord hath raised up faithfull ministers to his church , that could shew no succession from the degenerate clergy . and a little after , if paul were made an apostle without the ordination of the lawfull apostles much more may the lord raise up new pastors to his church without ordination from the usurpers of the apostles : synops . papism . contr . . q. . of succession error . p. . mor●●y his words are full and plaine to the same purpose . viz although some of our men in such a corrupt state of the church , as we have seene in our time , without waiting for calling or allowance of them who under the title of pastors oppressed the lords flock , did at first preach without this formall calling , and afterward were chosen and called to the holy ministey by the churches which they had taught ; yet this ought to seeme no more strange , then if in a free common-wealth the people without waiting either for the consent , or for the voices of those that tyrannize over them , should ( according to the lawes ) make choice of good and wise magistrates , such ( happily ) as god would serve his turne of for their deliverance , and for the publike restitution . and hereof wee have examples , first , in the acts , where wee read that philip , who was but a deacon , preacheth in samaria without the calling of the apostles , yea without their privity , who for all that gave their allowance to his worke . in frumentius , carried upon another occasion into the indies , a meere lay-man , who yet there preacheth the gospel , and a good while after is there made bishop . in those of whom origen speaketh , that shall come by chance into a city where never any christian was borne , shall there begin to teach , and labour to instruct the people in the faith , whom the people shall afterward make their pastors and bishops : and besides , in all the scriptures there is not one place that bindeth the ministery of the gospel to a certaine succession ; but contrariwise the scripture sheweth , that god would send two speciall witnesses to prophesie against antichrist : of the church chap. . p. . doctor whitaker answering bellarmine , that would prove protestants to have no church , because their ministers had no ordination by bishops , saith , that as sometimes bishops were chosen by the clergy and sometimes by the people , so the same may be said of ordination , viz. that it was sometimes by the clergy and sometimes by the people ; and then addeth , quod si vocationem corum episcoporum legitimam fuisse concedat bellarminus , de ordinatione minus laboramus . qui enim habent authoritatem vocandi , iidem etiam authoritatem ordinandi habent , si legitima ordinatio non possit impetrari : nam ordinatio sequitur vocationem ; qui vocatur , i● quasi in sui muneris possessionem mittitur : de eccles . q. . cap. p. . finally , doctor ames doth also witnesse the same in many places of his workes : for a taste take these few sayings of his in this case , viz. ad totam ecclesiam semper pertinet ordinatio , quoad jus , vim , virtutem illam quam habet in ministro ecclesiae constituendo ; sicut celebratio matrimonii vim aut virtutem omnem acceptam refert legitimo consensui conjugum : ecclesie statu ( ministerio & ordine deficiente ) collapso vel corrupto , à plebe etiam actus iste ordinationis , quatenus necessarius est ad ministri constitutionem in tali casu , potest legitimè exerceri , bellarm . enervat . lib. . de clericis , cap. de ordinatione . and againe , a little after ; episcopos veros à veris episcopis ordinariè dicimus ordinand●s esse , sed nomine ecclesiae cui ordinantur . and againe , a little after , potestas ordinandi est aliqu● modo originaliter in tota ecclesia , sicut potestas videndi originaliter est in toto animali , quamvis formaliter & subjectivè sit in oculo tantùm ; tum etiam ordinationis exercitium pendet à tota ecclesia , sicut actus videndi hoc vel illud determinatè pendet non ab oculo sed à toto . and againe , quamvis in ecclesia benè constituta non debeat aliis quam presbyteris ordinandi manus mandari ; in defectu tamen idoneorum presbyterorum potest non presbyteris mandari . and yet againe in the next place , si concedatur hoc , quòd ex ordine nemo possit esse legitimus pastor , nisi sit à legitimo pastore & episcopo ordinatus : in ordinis tamen defectu , cùm jam primò instaurari debet ordo , non potest●tam accuratè observari , atque adeo extraordinarium aliquid tum potest intervenire sine ullo vitio . these words you see are punctuall and plaine , that the power of ordaining ministers is originally in the church ; and that though when a church hath presbyters , the act of ordaining is to be done by those presbyters ; yet in defect of such it may be performed by them that are no presbyters , lawfully , and without fault ; which is the case of our churches that are in their beginnings , and may be the case of any church when they come to be without officers , as by warre , pestilence , &c. it may come to passe . there are some things common to pastors with teachers ; as , that they are both officers of the church appointed by christ ; both elders or bishops to rule and feed the church , by labouring in the word and doctrine , act. tim. . . tit. . , . and therefore the name of pastour , in a generall sense may be given to them both , ier. . . as also the name of teacher , isa . . . as those names may also be given to apostles , in as much as they also are elders , pastors , teachers , to rule , to feed , to teach the church of god , pet. . . ioh. . . . tim. . . & . . . and if pastors and teachers be both of them church officers , to feed and rule the church ▪ by labouring in the word and doctrine , they must not do this without application of it to the consciences and states of the hearers , as god shall helpe them : for this application is one part of his worke , that is by his office to preach the word , without which the word is not handled in such a manner as it ought to be , tim. . . cor. . . luk. . . and many hearers need this , the word delivered in generall without application of it being to them as bread set before children in the whole loafe . and if both of them must labour in the word and doctrine , and not onely in a generall way , but with application , we see not but they may both of them administer the seales or sacraments , wherein there is a speciall application of the promises of the gospel , and the grace of christ therein , unto the faithfull and believing receivers . . and yet for all this community between them , they are not in propriety of speech the same officers , but distinct , and so the scripture speaketh of them ephes . . . for if a man would say their offices are confounded , because the same generall worke of preaching the word , and applying the same , belongs unto them both : by the same reason a man might say the offices of apostles and evangelists were confounded ; for both of them were to preach the word , with application of the same by doctrine , and seales ; and also that the ordinary pastors were the same office with them both , because hee also is to doe the same worke of preaching and applying : but an apostle is to feed , and rule , and teach , by way of doctrine and application , as an apostle ; an evangelist as an evangelist , and an ordinary pastor as an ordinary pastor , and therein lyes the difference : and wee may adde , a teacher as a teacher ; and therein is he distinguished both from the pastor , and from all other church officers , even as by the same they all are distinguished one from another , the same generall worke of doctrine and application being common to them all . . and for the teacher and pastor , the difference between them lyes in this , that the one is principally to attend upon points of knowledge and doctrine , though not without application ; and the other to points of practice , though not without doctrine : and therefore the one of them is called ▪ he that teacheth , and his worke is thus expressed , let him attend on teaching ; and the other , he that exhorteth , and his worke , to attend on exhortation , rom. . , . and the gift of the one is called a word of knowledge , and the gift of the other , a word of wisedome , cor. . . as experience also sheweth , that one mans gift is more doctrinall , and for points of knowledge ; and anothers more exhortatory , and for points of practise . it is not the manner of elders among us , whether ruling onely , or ruling and teaching also , to strive for authority or preheminence one above another ; as remembring what lesson our saviour taught his disciples , when they were at strife among them , which of them should be the greatest , luk. . , . &c. if diotrephes strive for preheminence ioh. , . verily we abhorre such striving , and by the grace of god respect one another as brethren . as for the peoples duty toward their elders , it is taught them plainly in that place , thes . . , . as also in that of tim. . let the elders that rule well bee counted worthy of double honour , specially they that labour in the word and doctrine ; and this word ( specially ) shewes them , that as they are to account all their elders worthy of double honour , so in speciall manner their teaching or preaching elders . these are answered in that which was sent the last yeare . we doe believe that every minister of the gospel ought to be maintained with sufficient and honourable maintenance , according to his need and occasions , in regard of his person , calling , charge of children and hospitality , so as he that preacheth the gospel may in all these respects live of the gospel , cor. . . gal . . tim. . . and this maintenance is not to be allowed as almes and courtesie , but as debt and duty , to bee paid according to the rule of justice ; the labourer is worthy of his wages , luk. . . which the apostle sheweth to be according to all lawes of nature , nations , moses and christ , cor. . but for setled and stinted maintenance , there is nothing done that way amongst us , except from yeare to yeare , because the conditions of ministers may vary , and of the church to which they doe belong : neither doe we know any such thing to be appointed by christ our lord , for the maintenance of the ministery in these dayes ; but this we know that the great mountaine burning with fire , cast into the sea upon the sounding of the second trumpet rev. . , . is applyed by some good writers to those times , when constantine brought setled endowments into the church , with ampla praedia ( as they are called ) are counted by some to bee no better then poyson to the church ; as the stories say that upon the fact of the good emperour a voice was heard , which said , hodie seminatum est virus in ecclesiam . and if those writers be not deceived which so expound that scripture ( as for our parts wee know not but they expound it truely ) then in as much as upon the casting of that mountaine into the sea , a third part of it became blood and a third part of living creatures dyed , and a third part of ships were destroyed , it may be truely gathered thence that the bringing in of setled endowments and eminent preferments into the church , hath been the corruption , and to some the destruction of such as lived by them , both church-officers and church-members . we doe not permit , and call upon ( such whom you call ) meere lay men , and private persons , neither being in the ministery nor intended to it , ordinarily to preach or prophecy publiquely , in or before the congregation , if by ordinarily , you meane frequently and usually . for where ordinary officers are not wanting to a church , and neither detained from their worke by sicknesse , nor just absence , we thinke it most meet to offer our sacrifice to god and to the church of our best gifts . but yet if you oppose ordinary to extraordinary , we doe confesse that some private members ( to wit such as are eminently fitted with knowledge and utterance , being also men of humble spirits , and holy lives , all which qualifications we finde but in a few ) may without an extraordinary calling from god be called forth by by the church upon some occasion ( and namely in the absence or bodily weaknesse of ministers , or for tryall of gifts when a man intends the ministery ) to speake to edification , exhortation and comfort . iehosaphat sent princes ( who neither were ministers , nor intended so to be ) to teach with the priests and levites , to wit , at least to incourage the people , to hearken to the priests and levites come amongst them , chron. . , , . as jehosaphat himselfe also did the like , chron. . . yea , and was their mouth also to god in prayer , v. . . to . as for that prophecying cor. . we conceive as some things in it be extraordinary , so some things ordinary . extraordinary , that private men , and new converts should be so soon & so suddainly , & so much enlightened & enlarged , as to be able to prophecy publikely to the edification of a whole church : but yet this we conceive to be ordinary , that some private men may be found ( at least in some churches ) grown christians , of able gifts , who may have received a gift of prophecy , and for such we doe not thinke it requireth any more an extraordinary calling for them to prophecy in our churches , then for iehosaphat and his princes to prophecy in the church of israel . our answer to this question is that we never knew any ministers that did call upon the people thus to doe : and as for us , such calling upon them is farre from us . all that we know to be holden in this case is this , that some thinke the people have a liberty to aske a question publiquely for their better satisfaction upon very urgent and weighty cause , though even this is doubted of by others , and all judge the ordinary practice of it , not necessary : but ( if it be not meekly and wisely carried ) to be inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull , and therefore such asking of questions is seldome used in any church among us , and in most churches never . true it is , in the times a little afore the synod divers that were infected with corrupt opinions were very bold , & forward in this kind of asking questions , after sermons , especially when they had heard somthing delivered publiquely that did make against their tenents ; by which kind of asking questions , they plainely discovered of what spirit they were , but for being called upon by us thus to doe , ( as it seems to your question that you have been informed ) the truth is , there was no such matter . but now these men are long since , ( the greatest part of them ) to an island ( called aquedneck ) departed from amongst us , some of them being excommunicated or banished , or both , & others departing voluntarily , or for feare of the like censure , by meanes of which departure of these troublesome spirits from amongst us , and the blessing of god upon the synod & sermons that have laid open & reproved this disorderly asking of questions , a man may now live from one end of the year unto another in these congregations , & not hear any man open his mouth in such kind of asking questions . . the conversion of sinners unto god doth not alwaies follow the preaching of every one , that is in a lawfull office of ministery , as experience and scripture doe aboundantly witnesse , isay . . , . & . . ezech. . . king. . . mat. . , . &c. iohn . . . and when it doth follow , it is not by vertue of him , or of his office , but by vertue of gods blessing , and the mighty operation of his spirit as he pleaseth , without which the minister and his office could have had no vertue at all to convert sinners unto god , cor. . . no more then peter and iohn could heale the lame man , by virtue of any power or holinesse that was in them , act. . . for otherwise faithfull ministers should not have their labours blessed for conversion some more and some lesse ▪ but all in the same measure , inasmuch as one of them is no more a minister then another , nor no more in office then another , their office being the same , the effect in conversion would bee the same if conversion were by the vertue of their office . the truth it is , the law of the lord , ( the whole word of god ) that converts the soule , psal . . . and the gospell that is the power of god unto salvation . rom. . . and therefore the conversion of a man to god is to be ascribed to god , and to the word of his grace ; and not to the minister , nor any vertue of his office . . but this we doe acknowledge , that the sound conversion of sinners , whensoever such a thing comes to passe , doth argue that the instruments of such conversion are sent of god : god would not so have blessed them , as to convert any by them , if himselfe had not sent them at all , rom. . , . ier. . . . and yet we dare not say , that gods word is not made effectuall to conversion , unlesse the man that speakes it be a minister , that is to say , a church officer , for the contrary is evident from the scripture , john . . act. . . with . , , . cor. . . they that were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about steven , were not church officers , at least all of them ( for the apostles who were their chiefe , if not their only preaching officers , were not scattered abroad upon that persecution , but remained still at jerusalem , acts . . ) and yet these men did so preach the word of the lord jesus to the iewes and the grecians , that through the good hand of the lord that was with them , a great number believed and turned to the lord ; and the same we say of the woman of samaria , by whose testimonie of christ many of the samaritans believed on him . to restraine the efficacy of gods word in such sort as to say that none can be converted by it , unlesse he that speakes it be a minister , is to limit the spirit of the lord , where he hath not limited himself , who is free in working by whom he pleaseth , and as he will , cor. . . even as the wind bloweth where it listeth , iohn . . and sometimes doth bring to passe great things by weake meanes , that his owne glory may be the more , cor. . , , . if any say , how can these things stand together , that a man that is no minister may be an instrument of conversion , and yet conversion of sinners argues that the man is sent of god ? wee answer , that we must distinguish of sending according to the divers degrees thereof . for sometimes it imports no more but such an act of gods disposing providence , whereby men are gifted and enabled for such or such a worke , and permitted thereunto , though they have no command from him for the doing thereof , nor doe it not with a sincere minde in any obedience to god , but for corrupt and sinister ends of their owne . thus god sent the king of assyria against the iewes , isa . . . and bands of the caldees , and bands of other nations against jehojakim , and against iudah , to destroy it , king. . . and yet they had no command from him to doe this , but sinned grievously in so doing . thus they that preached christ not sincerely , but of envie and strife , to adde affliction to pauls bands , yet inasmuch as they preached christ , might be said to be sent of god , and therefore the apostle joyed at their preaching , phil. . , . thus baalam in his prophecies against the enemies of israel and for the happy state of gods people , might be said to be sent of god , though his heart and ends were corrupt and sinfull . but if men be not onely enabled with gifts for such or such a worke , but besides this , have a sincere minde and desire in the using thereof , to seeke the glory of god , and the good of soules , such men may much more be said to be sent of god , iohn . . for these men have not onely abilities and gifts from god , and permission to imploy them as the former had but also his spirit within them , which doth set their hearts on right and holy ends , which the other wanted . and yet if men doe want a lawfull office of ministery , wherein to exercise those gifts or a lawfull calling to that office or exercise , they may in that respect be said not to be sent of god , or not to be called of him though sent of him , in the first or second respect . thus in the scriptures it is said of some they ran and i sent them not , ier. . . i perceived that god had not sent him , but he pronounced his prophecies , because sanballat and tobiah had hired him , neh. . . and yet doubtlesse in respect of gods disposing providence , he had sent them , as the scripture witnesseth , that god sends strong delusions and lying prophets , and unfaithfull shepherds , thes . . . king. . , . zech. . . to be a plague unto the sons of men , and for tryall to his servants , deut. . . cor. . . now let these distinctions be applyed to the case in hand , and we may perceive how , if a man convert sinners , certainly god sends him ; and yet some that are not called to any office in the ministery , may through his blessing convert sinners : a man converts none unlesse god send him in the first or second sence and yet he may convert , and not bee sent , if sending be taken in the third sence , that is for a lawfull calling into some office in the church . and wee may adde , further a man may be sent in this third sence and yet convert none if he be not also sent in the first and second respect ; that is a man may have a lawfull calling outwardly unto a lawfull office in the church , and yet not convert sinners , if he want gifts or sincerity of heart , which might be the case of iudas , and of many wicked priests in the old testament : yea , happily convert none though he be truly sent in all three respects , as was said before in the beginning of the answer to this quaere . but if comparison be made , we doubt not , but whilest the ministery remaines uncorrupt , god is wont to follow with a greater blessing the labours of those who have gifts and an office of ministery also , then of those who have gifts alone without office . he is willing , and wonted to honour himselfe most , where most of his wayes are observed . master parker polit. eccles . l. . c. . &c. . observes a difference between the substantialls in church politie , and the accessaries or accidentalls ▪ and circumstantialls : and againe , that of circumstances some are generall , and some particular and individuall ; and so sheweth that the church politie in regard of the substantialls thereof is prescribed in the word , and therefore immutable . according to which distinction wee answer , that if those words ( precisely the same course ) mentioned in this question , be not meant of particular and individuall circumstances , but only of the substantialls or generall circumstances , then for ought we know there is no materiall point , either in constitution , or government , wherein the churches in n. e. ( viz. in the bay , in the jurisdiction of plymouth , at connectacute , and quilipiake ) do not observe the same course . ( and sure it is if they doe not they ought , because christ hath left but one way for all churches , and the same to be observed to the worlds end , tim. . , . ) onely , that conformity to the lyturgie and ceremonies in some places , to the northward , that anabaptisme at providence , and familisme at aquidneck ▪ hinders that we cannot say the same of them , nor of any other in n. e. that concurre with them in their unwarrantable wayes ▪ if there be any such , though thankes be to god there is none within this jurisdiction . who must have liberty to sit downe in this common-wealth and enjoy the liberties thereof is not our place to determine , but the magistrates who are the rulers and governours of the common-wealth , and of all persons within the same . and as for acknowledging a company to be a sister church , that shall set up , and practise another forme of church discipline , being otherwise in some measure , as you say , approveable , we conceive the companie that shall so doe , shall not be approveable therein . for the discipline appointed by jesus christ for his churches is not arbitrary , that one church may set up and practice one forme , and another another forme , as each one shall please , but is one and the same for all churches , and in all the essentialls and substantialls of it unchangable , and to be kept , till the appearing of jesus christ , tim. . , . from which place master cartwright observes the perpetuity of church government taught by the apostles , unto the end of the world , and is plain and large in this point , rep. p. . as is likewise mr. parker polit. eccles . l. . c. . and so forward to the end of that book , unto whom we refer you herein . and if that discipline which we here practise , be ( as we are perswaded of it ) the same which christ hath appointed , and therefore unalterable , we see not how another can be lawfull ; and therefore if a company of people shall come hither , and here set up and practise another , we pray you thinke not much , if we cannot promise to approve of them in so doing , especially untill wee see how approvable the men may be , and what discipline it is that they would set up . for should wee in such generall words as is there expressed , promise to accept of a companie as a sister church ▪ that shall set up and practise another discipline , and then should be taken at the utmost extent of our words , we might by this meanes be bound to accept of a company of papists , or arminians , or familists , or anabaptists , as a sister church , for there is none of these but something may be found in them , and in their discipline , that is in some measure approveable . and yet we pray you heartily in the lord , so conceive of us in this passage , that we are farre from making any such comparison , as if your selves were not approved in our consciences far above the best of such men , yea and above our selves in many respects . we have said before in that which we sent you the last yeare , and upon this occasion we say it now againe , that you are in our hearts ( if the lord would suffer ) to live and dye together : and therefore if this question were meant of your selves , or any of you , and a company of godly people joyning with you ( as it may be it is , though we cannot certainly say it , because you doe not expresse so much ) we thinke if you were here , wee should gladly accept of you and your people as a sister-church , and that you would doe the like to ours ; and yet not when you should set up and practise one forme of church-discipline , and we another , but because we are perswaded if you were here , you would set up and practise the very same that wee doe , and not any other : or else if we be swerving from the rule in any particular ( as god knowes we are but weake men , and far from dreaming of perfection in this life ) god would by you send in more light unto us then yet we see , and make you instruments in his hand for perfecting what is here begun according to his will , for strengthening what is weake , and reforming what may be found to be amisse : for we trust in the lord , that as wee are desirous that you might joyne with us in the wayes wherein we now walke , ( which we doe not see but they are according to the rule ) so we should be as willing to receive light from you , and to redresse ( as god shall helpe us ) whatsoever by you or any other he may discover to us to stand in need of reformation . for which cause among others we doe the more earnestly desire , if it were the lords will that he might send you hither , nothing doubting but if you were here , there would be such agreement between you and us , that either you would approve of the things which we beleeve and practise , or that we should approve of what you may shevv us to be more agreeable to the minde of christ : and then there would be no occasion of such a question , whether we may set up and practise another discipline , and yet be accepted as a sister-church : but rather of blessing the lord , when that shall be accomplished in you and us which is written in the prophets , i will give them one heart and one way : i will turne unto the people a pure language , that they may all call upon the name of the lord , to serve him with one consent , jer. . . zeph. . . wee have confidence in you through the lord , that you will be none otherwise minded ; but if in any thing ye be otherwise minded god shall reveale even this unto you , gal. . . phil. . . this was answered in the answer to posit . . & . sent unto you the last yeare . finis . an apologie of the chvrches in new-england for chvrch-covenant . or , a discourse touching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company doe enter into when they become a church ; and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . sent over in answer to master bernard , in the yeare . and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in this point . london , printed by t. p. and m. s. for benjamin allen. . a discovrse tovching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company do enter into when they become a church , and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . . jer . . . come let us joyne our selves to the lord , in a perpetuall covenant that shall not be forgotten . although that which is foretold in these two chapters ; and namely in the fourth and fifth verses of this chapter , was in part fulfilled when the people of god returned from captivitie in babylon at the end of seventie yeares : yet we must not limit the place to that time onely , but may extend it further to the dayes of the gospel , and the spirituall return , not of the jews onely , but of the gentiles also , when men shall be converted from pagan , antichristian , babylonish , or jewish bondage and captivitie , or from slavery to sinne , and self-righteousnesse , and shall be joyned to god in the fellowship of his church , in the dayes of the new testament . for as some passages in this scripture were never fully accomplished at the returne from the captivitie of the seventie yeares , and namely this , that the children of israel and judah should returne both together : ( for the ten tribes returned not at all : ) so many things that literally concerned the jewes were types and figures , signifying the like things concerning the people of god in these latter dayes : in which respect sincere converts are called jewes , rom . . and israelites , gal. . . joh. . . and our sacraments are made antitypes of theirs , cor. . , , . and rome is called babylon , rev. . . and papists are called gentiles , rev. . . and therefore the captivitie of babylon might well be a type of the spirituall captivitie of gods people to antichristian bondage , and their returne from babylon to sion , a type of the returne of christians from romish slavery to the true sion , the christian church . and this may be added further , that this place seemes not onely to be meant of the private or personall conversion of this or that particular christian , but also further , of the open and joynt calling of a company , because it is said , they shall come , the children of israel and the children of judah together , and that their saying shall not be , let me joyne , &c. but in the plurall number , let us joyne our selves unto the lord , so noting the joyning of a company together in holy covenant with god. concerning which covenant with god , it will not be amisse for the better understanding of that which followes ; first , briefly to shew how diversly covenant is taken in the scripture , which sometimes imports generally any firme appointment or promise of god , when man doth not promise unto god any thing backe againe : thus the preserving of noah in the arke , and of the world from being drowned any more by a floud ; the interchangeable succession of day and night ; the giving of the priesthood unto phineas ; the setting forth of the shew-bread every sabbath before the lord , and the giving of the heave-offering unto the priests , are said to be done by a covenant , or an everlasting covenant of god , gen. . . & . , , . jer. . . num. . , . levit. . . num. . . but sometimes covenant is taken more strictly and properly , for an agreement which god doth make with men , when he promiseth some blessing unto men , and bindes them to performe some dutie backe againe to him . taken thus it hath two parts : first , a promise or stipulation of some blessing on gods part : secondly , restipulation or promise , or binding of man unto dutie back againe on his part : both these are in those words of the covenant , i will be to thee a god , thou shalt be to me a people : and so gen. . . & v. , , , . the covenant taken thus is either the covenant of workes , or the covenant of grace : and againe the covenant may be considered ; first as it is personall , private and particular , between god and one particular soule , making covenant with god , and god with him , either at his first conversion ; or at other times ; of which we reade sam. . . & psal . , . & . , . & . & psal . . , secondly , it is generall and publick of a company joyntly together , of which this text jer. . . seemes most properly to speake : as also that deut. . , , &c. and that exod. . , , and many others : a covenant taken thus generally when it respects spirituall blessings , and spirituall duties , in the communion of saints , is that which is called church-covenant , which church-covenant differs not in substance of the things promised from that which is between the lord and every particular soule , but onely in some other respects ; as first , the one is of one christian in particular , the other of a company joyntly together . secondly , if right order be observed , a man ought not to enter into church-covenant , till he be in covenant with god before , in respect of his personall estate . thirdly , the one is usually done in private , as in a mans closet between the lord and his soule , and the other in some publick assembly . fourthly , the one in these dayes is of such duties as the gospel requires of every christian as a christian , the other of such duties as the gospel requires of every church and the members thereof . now concerning church-covenant , two things are to be noted for the better understanding thereof : first , the description of it : secondly , the use of it , and the benefit and fruit thereof . for the former it may be thus described , viz. a solemne and publick promise before the lord , whereby a company of christians , called by the power and mercy of god to fellowship with christ , and by his providence to live together , and by his grace to cleave together in the unitie of faith , and brotherly love , and desirous to partake together in all the holy ordinances of god , doe in confidence of his gracious acceptance in christ , binde themselves to the lord , and one to another , to walke together by the assistance of his spirit , in all such wayes of holy worship in him , and of edification one towards another , as the gospel of christ requireth of every christian church , and the members thereof . in this description , there are comprised six things : first , the generall name of the thing : [ a solemne and publick promise ] a promise it is , and therefore it is called , a joyning in covenant here : an entring into covenant , deut. . . solemne and publick , and therefore it is by the children of israel and the children of judah together : and they say , let us joyne . secondly , the object [ the lord , and one another ] joyne our selves to the lord it is not a promise onely to man , but to the lord himselfe , and likewise to one another ; for , come let us joyne , implyes mutuall consent together . thirdly , the agents or the qualification of the persons : [ christians ] not turkes , indians , &c. saints , psal . . . , . [ called to fellowship with christ ] so cor. . else if they be not united to christ by faith , they are not fit materialls for such a building as a church of god , which is the house of the living god , ephes . . . cor. . . phil. . . rev. . . [ by his providence to live together ] else they cannot partake in the lords ordinances together as churches ought to doe , cor. . . act. . the whole church comes together in one place [ cleaving together in faith and love ] so act. . if they differ , namely , in opinion , or in their affection , and should joyne in this covenant , breaches , factions , rents , and schismes , would be like to be the issue of such joyning : things so unlike would not close nor long hold together , dan. . [ desirous to partake in all ordinances ] this should be the ground of their joyning in covenant together , psal . . . willing : and not pride , nor gaine , nor the like : fourthly , the act [ binde themselves ] that now they are bound by their owne word and promise , that they may say now , as psal . . . thy vowes are upon me , or as num. . . if he binde his soule with a vow . fiftly , the matter promised ; [ to walke together in all such wayes of worship and mutuall edification , as the gospel requireth of churches and church-members ] they binde not themselves to observe any devises of their owne , nor inventions of men , but such things as the word of god requireth ; neither is it perfect obedience to the law , for that were impossible to performe , and presumption to promise ; nor is it onely in generall the duties of the gospel , but specially such duties of worship to god , & edification of one another as concerne church-state , which now they enter into . sixtly , the manner of performing [ confidence of gods gracious acceptance and assistance through christ ] for in all our wayes god must be acknowledged , pro. . . and much more in such speciall matters of weight : if men in entring into this covenant looke for acceptance , through any worth of their owne , or promise dutie in their own strength , they shew themselves like to the pharisees , luk. . , . and turne the church-covenant into a covenant of workes : and as many as are of the workes of the law , are under the curse , gal. . . the use and benefit of this church-covenant , and the fruit thereof , may be seene in two particulars ; first , that this is that whereby a company of christians doe become a church : it is the constituting forme of a church . secondly , this is that by taking hold whereof a particular person becomes a member of a church , which was constituted afore . for the former of these ; every christian church must have in it both matter and forme , and as the matter by gods appointment are visible saints , or visible beleevers , ephes . . . cor. . . and in the new testament , onely so many as may meete together in one congregation : so the forme is a uniting , or combining , or knitting of those saints together into one visible body , by the band of this holy covenant . some union or band there must be amongst them , whereby they come to stand in a new relation to god , and one towards another , other then they were in before : or els they are not yet a church , though they be fit materialls for a church ; even as soule and body are not a man , unlesse they be united ; nor stones and timber an house , till they be compacted and conjoyned . now that a company becomes a church , by joyning in covenant , may be made good sundry wayes ; first , by plaine texts of scripture ; as from deut. . , , , , . yee stand this day all you before the lord your god , your captaines of your tribes , your elders , your officers , with all the men of israel , ver . . that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god , ver . . and he may establish thee for a people unto himselfe , ver . . so that here is plain●y shewed , that here was a company , ver . . and this company were to be established to be a people unto the lord , that is to say , a church , ver . . and this is done by the peoples entring into solemne covenant with god , ver . . and therefore a company of people doe become a church by entring into covenant with god. this covenant was not like our church-covenants , for it was of all the nation together ; whereas the church-covenant with us , is of some select persons , leaving out others . . this objection concerns the matter of a church , but the covenant is not the materiall cause of a church , but the formall cause thereof : and for this the text is ▪ plaine and expresse , that by entring into covenant with god , a people come to be the lords people , that is to say , his church . . if it was of all the people together , the reason was because that church was a nationall church : now if a nationall church becomes a church by entring into solemne covenant with god , then a congregationall church becomes a church by the same means ; for there is no difference between them in this point . . though it was of all the people , we may not say it proves that when we looke at the materiall cause of a church , there may be a promiscuous taking in of all commers without distinction or separation of the precious from the vile ; for , first , when god took in this nation to be his people , he separated them from all the nations of the earth besides : so that there was a distinction and separation of some from others . secondly , this generation was generally a generation of beleevers ; for it was they that were to enter into the land within a while after ; for they were fortie yeares in the wildernesse ▪ & this covenant was made in the last moneth save one of the last of those fortie yeares , deut. . . and their carkasses fell not in the wildernesse through unbeliefe , as their fathers did , num . heb. . but entred by faith , and when they were entred , subdued kingdomes by their faith , heb. . . and served the lord all the dayes of joshua , and of the elders that out lived joshua , josh . . as for that which is said of them , ver . , . of this chap. that the lord had not given them eyes to see , &c. that proves not that they were wholly hardned in a carnall estate , but onely that they were dull and slow of heart to consider of sundry dispensations of god towards them ; for as much is said of the disciples of christ , mar. . , . when doubtlesse they were not meere carnall or naturall persons . this people deut. . could not become the lords people by entring into solemne covenant with god , for they were the lords church and people already before this . . if they were , yet that was by entring into solemne covenant with god on mount sinai , when the lord had brought them up out of the land of aegypt ; for then they entred into solemne covenant with god , and god with them , and so they bec●me the lords peculiar people , exod. ▪ , , , . &c. if they were his people before that , yet that also was by covenant made with them in the loynes of abraham , when god tooke him and his seede to be his church and people , yet separating ishmael from isaac and es●● from jacob , that the inheritance of the covenant of god , and of being the church of god , might rest in the house of jacob. . yet it was not without great reason that the lord should now establish them by solemne covenant to be a people to himselfe , because the nation had been much degenerated from the spirit and wayes of abraham in aegypt , and had broken that covenant by their idolatries there , ezek. . , . and the covenant made in sinai or hore● when they were come out of aegypt , they had also broken by their idolatries in the wildernesse , ezek . , . for which causes , and the like , the lord consumed that generation , that they never entred into the land , josh . . , . and therefore now when their posteritie and children were ready to enter in , the lord entred into covenant with them , and thereby established them to be his people , their fathers being cut off for breaking the covenant . but still it was by covenant that both fathers first , and children afterward became a church and people unto god ; and when this generation were entred into the land , their covenant made before between god and them , was confirmed by circumcision , josh . . . . they being not circumcised before . but this covenant was of the whole church with god , and therefore not like our church-covenants , which are between the church and the members , concerning watchfulnesse over one another , and the like . our church-covenants are with the lord himselfe , as was shewed before in the description thereof . for watchfulnesse and duties of edification one towards another , are but branches of the lords covenant , being duties commanded by the law : and so it was with that people of israel , who when they promised and covenanted to walke in all the wayes of god ; in all his statutes and commandements and judgements , they promised these duties of love and watchfulnesse and edification one towards another , because these were duties commanded and required of god , lev. : . deut. . the neglect whereof in the matter of achan was the sinne of all the congregation ▪ and brought judgement upon them all , josh . . , . yea by this covenant they were bound to duties towards them that were not then present , but children afterward to be borne , and proselytes , that afterward should be added to them , ver . , . like as our church-covenants are with them that now are , and that hereafter shall become members of the same church . when jehojada made a covenant between the king and the people , king. . . that covenant was but a branch of the lords covenant with them all , both king and people : for the king promised but to rule the people righteously , according to the will of god : and the people to be subject to the king so ruling . now these duties of the king to them , and of them to the king , were such as god required in his covenant , both of him and them : and so it is in church-covenant , the duties of the church to the members , and the members to the church , and one another , are no other but such as the gospel and the covenant of grace requireth both of the church and the members of it in their severall places . but this place of deut. . is not sufficient to prove a church-covenant in these dayes : because it is in the scriptures of the old testament , for what soever must be used in the dayes of the new testament , must be proved from the scriptures of the new testament , or else it is to be layd aside . . the church-covenant may be proved from the new testament also ▪ as will afterwards appeare . . but suppose there were not pregnant places for it in the new testament , yet it is not enough to prove the same unlawfull : for whatsoever ordinance of the old testament is not repealed in the new testament , as peculiar to the jewish paedagogie , but was of morall and perpetuall equitie , the same bindes us in these dayes ▪ and is to be accounted the revealed will of god in all ages , though it be not particularly and expressely mentioned in the writings of the new testament , else how shall we prove it unlawfull for a man to marry his sister , or his aunt ? how shall we prove it warrantable and necessary for magistrates to punish sabbath-breaking , blasphemy , and idolatry ? how shall we prove it lawfull to apply the seale of gods covenant unto infants ? or to admit women to eate of the holy things ; for the scriptures of the new testament doe speake little in these cases ; onely the scriptures of the old testament doe give direction , and light about them , lev ▪ . & . neh. . . &c. chron. . . & king. . gen. . . & exod. . . . and the new testament hath nothing to the contrary , and they are all according to morall equitie and reason , and therefore they are to be observed from the scriptures of the old testament , as the revealed will of god , though there were nothing expressely for them in the new. and the same we say of the particular in hand . for , that a company should be combined together into one body , in way of government and subjection , by way of mutuall free covenant ; as men doe when they enter into church estate , nothing is more naturall or agreeable to morall equitie ; nay , it implyeth a contradiction in the very name of libertie or freedome , that free-men should take upon them authoritie or power over free men without their free consent , and voluntary and mutuall covenant or engagement . and therefore seeing this covenant is not repealed in the scriptures of the new testament , the scriptures of the old are sufficient warrant for it . another scripture to prove the same , is deut. . , , . with deut. . . this day the lord hath commanded thee to doe these statutes and judgements ▪ thou shalt therefore keepe and doe them , &c. thou hast avouched the lord this day to be thy god , and to walke in his wayes , and to keepe his statutes , &c. and the lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people ; take heed and hearken , o israel , this day thou art become the people of the lord thy god. this scripture plainly shewes these things : . that here was the making of a covenant between god and man ; for that avouching of god to them , and them to god , was the making of covenant , ver . , . . this was not of one person , but of a company together , the whole people of israel , . . & . . here is the effect of this covenant , that thereby they become the lords people , ver . . so that when a company doe enter into holy covenant with god , they become thereby the lords people , that is to say , his church . so ezech. . . proves the same likewise : i entred into covenant with thee , saith the lord , and thou becam●st mine . here also is the making of covenant between the lord and men ; and this covenant was not personall , but of a company ; for it was with hierusalem , ver . . which was a whole citie ; it was with them that were multiplied as the bud of the feild , ver . . and it was with them that did prosper into a kingdome , ver . . and therefore not meant onely of any one particular person : and by this covenant they became the lords ; that is , the lords church and people ; for it is expresly said , i entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine . so that when a company enter into covenant with god , and god with them , they become thereby the lords church and people . likewise ezek. . . i will cause you to passe under the rod ; and i will bring you into the bond of the covenant . in which place , there is first mention of an holy covenant . secondly , this was not of one person , but of a company , the whole house of israel , ver . . . thirdly , and this covenant is called a bond , because it is by covenant that a people are bound , and tyed , and knit together , as one church , all of them unto the lord , and one unto another ; so that the covenant is the bond of union , by which a company are so combined and united , as that they become a church . it is also observable , how the lord before he would bring them into this bond of the covenant , he would cause them to passe under the rod ; by which phrase , as junius upon the place well observes , is meant tryall and probation ; drawne from the manner of shepheards or owners of cattell , who went among their sheepe , or other cattell with a rod , and therewith pointed out such as were for the lords holy use , as lev. . . and so hereby is noted that god would not in the dayes of the gospel have men to be brought into his church hand over head , but he would first cause them to passe under the rod of due tryall and probation ; and then such as upon tryall were found to be holy for god , or meete matter for his church , should solemnly enter into covenant with god , and that covenant should be the bond that should combine them , and knit them together into one , that so they that were many particular persons , should all become one body , that is to say , a church . and so much of the first argument drawne from plaine texts of scripture . a second argument may be taken from the titles that are given to the church ; as first , that the church is said to be married or espoused unto christ , jer. . . & . . cor. . . from whence the argument may be formed thus : if every church becomes a church by being married or espoused unto christ , then a company becomes a church by way of covenant : but the former is true , therefore the latter is true also . the assumption , that a church becomes a church by being married unto christ , is plaine from the former scriptures , where the church of israel , and the church of corinth , in regard of their entring into church-estate , are said to be espoused and married unto christ , as a loving and chast virgine to one husband . which spirituall marriage between christ and his church , is also taught in the type of the marriage between king salomon and pharoahs daughter , psal . . the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason ; for there is no marriage but by way of covenant ; no woman becomes a mans wife , but by way of bestowing her selfe in covenant upon such a man : neither doth a man become an husband , but by the same means ; and therefore the scripture speaking of the violation of marriage , calls it a violation of covenant , prov. . . christ hath but one wife or spouse , cant. . the catholique church indeed is but one ; viz ▪ the whole company of gods elect in heaven , in earth , dead , now living , and not yet borne : but as there is the church-catholique , which is but one ; so there are particular and visible churches , which are in number many ; and therefore the scripture speakes of churches , cor. . . . gal. . . of the churches of the gentiles , rom. . . of seven churches , rev. . . of all churches , cor. . . & . . rev. . . but if every particular church be the wife of christ , how many hundred wives should he have ? . if the church of israel , jer. . . the church of corinth , cor. . . the jewish church , rev. . . be the spouse and wife of christ , there is no reason but others should be the same also , especially seeing there is no particular church , but in respect of their church estate , they may decline and goe a whoring from christ , and that shews that they were first espoused to him ; for no woman can be said to goe a whoring from a man , if shee were never married , nor espoused to him at all . . this that seemes an absurditie , and were a sinfull practise among men , in respect of christ , is a certaine truth , and no dishonour unto him at all , to have more spouses then one upon earth , many spirituall spouses . men cannot give themselves wholly and intirely to many as christ can . every faithfull soule is espoused and married unto christ ; and in that respect he hath not onely many hundred but many thousand , yea many millions of spirituall spouses . but this spirituall marriage is between christ and the church , but the church-covenant is between the church and the members , and therefore this marriage doth not prove the church-covenant . . in some sort there may be said to be a marriage between the church and the members , viz. in respect of that deare love and affection , that ought to be between them ; and therefore it is said , as a young man marrieth a virgine , so shall the children of the church be married to the church , isa . . . . but properly the marriage is between christ & the church , and so is the covenant also , so farre as therein they give up themselves to christ as unto an head and lord ; as a woman in the covenant of marriage doth give up her selfe unto her husband ; and the performance of such duties as the church and the member owe one unto another , is a branch of that marriage-covenant , wherein they are tyed to christ ; for christ himselfe in his covenant requires , not onely that they should give up themselves to him , but also that they should performe these duties one unto another . and accordingly it is said of the churches in macedonia , that they gave up themselves first to the lord , and then to us by the will of god , cor. . . true it is , they doe also binde themselves by covenant one unto another , but in that respect the covenant is properly a brotherly covenant ; like that sam. . amos . . because there the engagement is to one another as brethren , fellow-members , and fellow-helpers , and not as to one head or lord , as it is in respect of christ , and therefore in that respect it is not so properly a marriage-covenant as it is in respect of christ : though duties to one another are promised in their covenant with one another , and also in their covenant with christ . in briefe thus : they promise unto christ duties to him , and duties to one another according to him : and so their covenant is a marriage-covenant with christ : they promise also to one another , duties to one another , and so it is a brotherly covenant . another title given to the church ( which also proves that a church is made by covenant ) is the title of a citie , or citie of god , psal . . . & . . & . . ephes . . the argument lyeth thus ▪ if a true church be a citie of god , then a church becomes a church by covenant : but every true church is a citie of god. ergo. the assumption is proved by the scriptures forealledged . the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason , for every citie is united by some covenant among themselves , the citizens are received into jus civitatis , or right of citie priviledges , by some covenant or oath ; and therefore it is so likewise in this citie of god the church ; and men become citizens of the church by solemne covenant . the third argument may be drawne from the meanes of reforming and restoring a church when it is corrupted , which is by entring into covenant a new with god , chron. . & . . & neh. . . & . , . jer. . , . the reason may be taken thus : if a church decayed is to be restored and reformed by renuing covenant with god , then it was instituted and erected at the first by way of covenant : the reason of which consequence is , because abuses and corruptions are to be reformed by bringing things back to the first institution : thus christ reformes the abuses of marriage , by bringing them to the first institution of that ordinance ; from the beginning it was not so , mat. . and thus paul reformeth the abuses of the lords supper , by telling them what was the first institution thereof , cor. . , &c. and thus the lord jesus calling on the declining church of ephesus for reformation , bids her remember from whence shee is fallen , and repent and doe her first workes , rev. . . now the assumption is plaine from the texts above alledged , that at the reforming of a church , there is to be a renuing of covenant ; and thence it follows , that at the first erecting of a church , there was the making of a covenant with god , for els this renuing of covenant would not have been the way to reforme it . the fourth argument is taken from that which doth dissolve a church , which is the dissolving or breaking of the covenant , zach. . , , . if dissolving the covenant be that which doth dissolve the church , then the making of covenant is that which constitutes a church . the reason of the consequence is plaine , because otherwise the covenant might be dissolved & the church stand still , if it were not the making of the covenant that did constitute the church : but if dissipating stones in a building doe dissolve the house , then the compacting and conjoyning of them is that which makes the house ; if separation of soule and body be that which destroyes the man , that then we say he is not : it must needs be the uniting of them , that did constitute & make the man : and so it is in this case . and that dissolving the covenant is that which dissolves a church , is plaine from the text alledged , zach. . where the breaking of the two staves , of beautie and bands , that is , the unchurching of the jewes , is interpreted to be the breaking of the covenant that god had made with that people , and the brotherhood that was between judah and israel . the fifth argument is taken from the distinction which god hath appointed amongst churches , and the confounding of all churches into one , if there be not this covenant to distinguish them . if churches be distinct societies , and may not be confounded , then churches are compacted and combined by covenant : but the former is true . ergo. that churches are distinct societies , is plaine in the scripture , where we have mention of many churches in one countrey or province , gal. . . thes . . . of seven churches in asia , rev. . . and of all the churches , cor. . . rev. . . ephesus is not smyrna , nor smyrna is not thyatira , nor either of them pergamus , but each one distinct of themselves , having officers of their owne , which did not belong to others : vertues of their owne for which others are not praised , corruptions of their owne , for which others are not blamed ; if it were not thus , then when lacdicea is condemned for lukewarmenesse , or ephesus for declining , all the rest should be reproved also : and when philadelfia is praised , all the rest should be praised also , which we see is otherwise . now from hence the consequence is certaine , that therefore they are combined by some covenant each one amongst themselves ; for there is nothing els without this that wil sufficiently distinguish them . the spirit of god and faith in their hearts , is common to all christians under heaven , and in heaven also , and therefore this is not the thing that makes distinction . nor is it habitation in the same towne together , for that may be common to such christians as are not of this church , and usually is to many that are no christians . as it is with companies in london ; as the company of goldsmiths , &c. that many others dwell in the same towne with them , yea it may be in the same streete that are not of their company : and therefore it is not meerely habitation that doth distinguish them from others , but some combination and agreement amongst themselves ; so it is not habitation in the same towne that distinguisheth churches , and church-members from other men , but their mutuall agreement and combination and joyning themselves together in an holy covenant with god. if the spirit of god and faith in their hearts cannot distinguish one church from another , because these are common to them all , then how can covenant distinguish them , sith all churches are joyned by covenant one as well as another ? it is not a covenant simply or a covenant in generall that doth constitute a church , or distinguish one church from another , but a covenant with application and appropriation to these persons . even as it is in marriage , though all married couples be united by covenant , and a covenant wherein one couple promiseth the same duties that another couple doth , yet a covenant with application and appropriation of the duties covenanted to this man and this woman in particular , such a covenant is the very thing that make a couple , man and wife together , and gives them mutuall power over each other , as husband and wife , and puts a distinction between them and all other men and women in the world . and so it is in this case ; a covenant to performe church-duties with application and appropriation to such persons , is the very thing that constitutes a church , and distinguisheth one church from another . and thus much concerning the former of the two particulars , to shew the use of church-covenant , viz. that it is that whereby a company doe become a church . the second particular is this , that taking hold of the covenant , or joyning in it , is that which makes a particular person a member of a church . and this followes upon the former , and that may be the first argument to prove it . if joyning in covenant be that which makes a company to become a church , then taking hold of that covenant is requisite to make a particular person become a member of the church : but the first is true , as hath been shewed before ; therefore the second is true also : if compacting and conjoyning of stones and pieces of timber be , that that makes an house , then a particular stone cannot become a part of that house , till it be compacted and con●oyned to the rest : but the former is true , even in the church of god , which is the spirituall spouse and citie of god , living stones , christians , beleevers must be compacted together , and builded up together , ephes . . . . psal . ● . and therefore the latter is true also , that a particular christian becomes a member of the church , a part of that building by being combined with the rest . a second argument may be drawne from the scripture , isa . . , , . let not the sonne of the stranger , that hath joyned himselfe to the lord , speake , saying , the lord hath utterly separated me from his people , &c. the sonnes of the strangers that joyne themselves to the lord , to serve him , &c. and take hold of my covenant , even them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer , &c. concerning which scripture , note three things to the present purpose . first , that these strangers were members of christ , true beleevers , joyned to god by faith ; for it is said , they have joyned themselves to the lord , v. & v. . that they loved the name of the lord , served him , and kept his sabbaths , v. . and yet for all this they were not as yet joyned as members of the visible church , for if they had been joyned , there would have been no cause for such a complaint , the lord hath separated me from his people , v. . besides , bringing them into the church as members , and granting them the priviledge of members , is promised as a reward and blessing upon this their joyning to the lord by faith and obedience , v. . and therefore it is not the same , but a distinct thing from it ; the one being promised as a reward and blessing upon the other . secondly , the lord promiseth that he will make them members of his church : them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer . thirdly , that among other things requisite to make them members , this was one , viz. the taking hold of that covenant which was between the church of israel and god , v. . so that hence we may gather , that men may be members of christ , joyned to the lord by faith and love , and yet for the present not be members of the visible church : and that when god is so gracious to true beleevers , as to make them members of his visible church , it is requisite that they joyne in covenant before . but might not faith in christ , beleeving in heart on the god of israel , be all the taking hold of the covenant that is here meant . not so , but over and above that , here is also meant their open profession of their faith in the god of israel , and open binding of themselves by covenant to all such duties of faith and obedience , as god required of the church of israel , and the members thereof . now distinctly take the answer to this objection in three or foure particular propositions . first , there was a covenant between the church of israel and god , exod. . , , , . ezek . . deut. . . &c. secondly , this covenant was mutuall ; not onely a promise on gods part to be their god , and to take them for his people , but also reciprocally on their part to give up themselves unto god to be his people , and to doe the dutie of people to their god ; the covenant is not meerely to receive from god , and promise nothing back againe to him ; nor doth god binde himselfe therein , and leave men at libertie , but it is mutuall on both parts , as these scriptures declare ; gen. . . exod. . . deut. . . & . , . hos . . . & zach. . . thirdly , hereupon it followes , that if men had not promised , and also performed , in some measure of truth , the duties of faith and obedience unto god , they had not taken hold of the covenant , but had discovenanted themselves , notwithstanding all the promises of god unto their fathers or others . thus though god promised abraham to be a god to him , and to his seede in their generations , gen. . . yet the ishmaelites and edomites descending from abraham , were discovenanted by not promising nor performing those duties of faith and obedience , which god required on the peoples part : when a covenant containes promises on gods part , and duties also on mans , he doth not take hold of the covenant that takes one part , and leaves another . fourthly , to beleeve what god promised in the covenant for his part , and to promise in a private way the duties of obedience on mans part , was not sufficient to make these strangers members of the church , but they must doe it openly and in the view of the church , else the church could have had no warrant to have admitted such into their fellowship , if their faith and obedience had not been visibly professed , exod. . . chron. . . and in as much as the covenant was mutuall , when these strangers did manifest their taking hold of the covenant , they manifested and professed both faith and obedience , both that they beleeved what god promised , and that they would be obedient to what he required ; if any should have claimed church-fellowship , saying , i beleeve the promises , but would not binde himselfe to any duties of evangelicall obedience , this had been a taking hold of the covenant by the halves , a taking of one part of it in seeming and pretence , and a leaving of another ; but it would not have been sufficient to have brought a man into the fellowship of the church : such of the congregation of israel as would not come to hierusalem to enter into covenant , were to be separated from the church in the dayes of ezra , ezra . . and therefore such as being strangers should refuse to enter into it , could not be admitted into the church ; so that the taking hold of gods covenant , which is there required to make these strangers members of the church , is a beleeving in heart on the god of israel , and an open profession that they did beleeve , and likewise a promise of obedience or subjection unto the god of israel , and an open professing of such obedience and subjection ; and that is the joyning in covenant which we stand for , before a man can be a member of a church , even an open profession of faith and of obedience . a third argument is taken from those scriptures which shew that men become members by being added to the church , or being joyned to them , act. . . & . . & . . if men become members of the church by being added or joyned , then joyning in covenant ( or professing of subjection to the gospel or covenant of god ) is that whereby a man becomes a member of a church : but the former is true , as appeares by the scriptures forementioned , and therefore the latter is true also . but all the doubt in this argument will be concerning the consequence of the major proposition ; but that may be made good by this reason , and the confirmation of it , viz. that a man cannot be added or joyned to the church by any other meanes without this joyning in covenant . the truth of which assertion will appeare by shewing the insufficiency of all other means , without this joyning in covenant , and that may be done in answer to the objections ensuing . when men were added to the church , it may be , no more is meant but that god did convert them and worke faith in their hearts , and that converting of them was the adding of them to the church . this cannot be all ; for , first , saul was converted and had faith wrought in his heart , and yet he was not at the first received for a member of the church at hierusalem ( though he assayed to be joyned unto them , ) till they were better satisfied in his spirituall estate by the testimony of barnabas , act. . , , . and those strangers , isa . . ( as was said before ) were joyned to the lord by being converted , and having faith wrought in their hearts , and yet they doe lament it with griefe , that they were not joyned as members to the visible church : the lord hath separated me from his people , say they , ver . . the old saying is true concerning the visible church , there are many wolves within , and many sheepe without . secondly , those that were joyned were beleevers before they joyned ; for it is said , divers were added , ver . . thirdly , those that were added to the church , were added and joyned to them by such an act as others durst not put forth , act. . . of the rest durst no man joyne unto them , and therefore it was not by the irresistable act of god in converting of them , but by some voluntary act of their owne choice and consent ; for gods converting grace depends not upon mans daring , or not daring to receive it . if to be joyned be no more but to be converted , then when it is said , some durst not be joyned , the meaning should be , they durst not be converted , nor suffer faith to be wrought in them ; which is grosse arminianisme , suspending the converting grace of god upon the free will of the creature . fourthly , and as this joyning which others durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted ; so if it be well considered , what the thing was wherein they durst not joyne , it may appeare that it was nothing els but this , that they durst not agree , and engage themselves to be of their body and societie ; that is , they durst not joyne in covenant with them . for it cannot be meant of dwelling in the towne with them , for this they both durst doe and did : nor is it onely of joyning to heare the word in their assembly , for this also they durst doe , and many did it in great multitudes , so that many by hearing the word became beleevers , and were added to the lord both of men and women , ver . . at this very time when it is said of some they durst not joyne unto them : nor is it of joyning to them in affection , or approbation of their way , for this they also durst doe and did expresse so much in magnifying and commending them , when yet they durst not joyne unto them , ver . . which magnifying of them doth imply that they heard their doctrine , and saw their practise , and approved it , and highly commended them for the same : wherefore seeing this joyning , which some durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted , nor of joyning in habitation , nor of joyning in affection , nor in hearing the word in their assembly , nor of approbation , and expressions that way , it remaineth that it must be meant of joyning in that neere relation of church-fellowship amongst them , so as to be engaged by voluntary consent and agreement to be members of their church . fiftly , if joyning to the church , were no more but to be converted , then he that were converted were joyned as a member of every visible church throughout the world , which were a great confusion of that order , and distinction of churches , which the lord hath appointed . men may be joyned to the church , in heartie affection and love , and yet without any covenant . true , but this will not make them members of that church , for then saul was a member of the church at hierusalem , afore he was joyned a member , for he was joyned to them in heartie affection afore , and therefore assayed to joyne as a member ; and so were they that durst not joyne , act. . . yea then a man should be a member of many churches , yea of all christian churches in the world ; for he is to love them , and beare heartie affection to them all ; the true members of the churches in england are united in heartie affection , to the churches in scotland , in holland , in france , in new-england , &c. and yet they are not members of all these churches , nor subject to their censures as members are . but the reason of that is because they doe not dwell among them in the same towne . neither would habitation with them in the same towne , make a man a member of the church there , if there be no more then so . suppose saul to have dwelt in the same house afore his conversion in which he dwelt after , which is not unpossible nor unlikely ; yet we see he was no member of the church at hierusalem , afore his conversion , no nor of some time after , though he might have dwelt in an house in the midst of the christians , and church-members there . the members of the dutch and french churches in london , or other townes in england , are not members of the english-congregations or churches , no more then the english are of theirs , and yet they dwell promiscuously together in the same streete of the same towne . towne-dwelling would not make a man a free-man of a company in london , or some other corporation ; for many others dwell in the towne with them ; yea it may be in the same streete , that are not free of their company , and so it is in this case . but the reason why such as dwell in towne with the church , are not members thereof , may be , because they frequent not their . assemblies . idiots and infidells might come into the publick meetings among the corinthians , cor. . , , . yet idiots and infidells were not therefore members of the church . and saul after his conversion might have come in among the church in time of publick duties , and have seene and heard all that they had done : yet this would not have made him of one body with them . some indians , moores , and other naturall persons come into our meetings in new-england , some of their owne accord , and others by the command or counsell of their masters and governours yet no man can say , that all these are hereby made church-members . wherefore seeing neither conversion , nor loving affection , nor cohabitation , nor coming into their meetings , doth joyne a man as a member of the visible church ( for some men have all these , and yet are not members , and others are sometimes members of the visible churches , and yet want some of these , are hypocrites and want sound conversion ) it remaineth therefore that as sound conversion makes a man fit matter for a church ; so profession of his faith , and of his subjection to the gospel , and the churches approbation , and acceptance of him ( which is the summe of church-covenant ) is the formall cause that gives him the being of a member . but joyning doth not alway signifie joyning in covenant ; philip joyned to the eunnuchs chariote , and dust to mens feete , act. . . & luke , . and yet there was no covenant , and therefore men may joyne to the church without any covenant . the word indeed may expresse any close joyning , whether naturall , ( as the branch is joyned to the vine , or an arme or other member to the body ) or artificiall , as when two stickes were joyned to become one in ezekiels hand , ezek. . or when carpenters or masons doe joyne pieces of stone or timber together , to make one house , neh. . . ezr. . . but is not onely the force of the word that is stood upon . but when joyning is used to expresse such joyning , wherein a man voluntarily takes on him a new relation , there it alwayes implyes a covenant , whether the relation be morall and civill , or religious and ecclesiasticall : we speake of voluntary relation , for there are naturall relations , as betweene parents and children : and these need no covenant , there is no covenant to make a man a parent , or a childe ; there are also violent relations , as between conquerour and captives , and in these there is no covenant neither ; but others are voluntary , and these alwayes imply a covenant , and are founded therein , whether they be morall and civill ( as between husband and wife , pro. . . between master and servants , luk. . . between prince and subject , between partners in trade , chro. . , , . where the covenant or agreement is , that men shall bare such a share of charges , and receive such a share of profits : ) or religious , as between minister and people , between the church and the members : all these are done by way of covenant . a man cannot joyne himselfe to a woman as her husband , but by way of covenant : a man cannot joyne himselfe to another as a servant , or apprentise , but by way of covenant ; and so may we say of all the rest ; nor into any body corporate , but by the same way and means . if men be united into a body politick or incorporate , a man cannot be said to be joyned to them by meere heartie affection , unlesse withall he joynes himselfe unto them by some contract or covenant . now of this nature is every particular church , a body incorporate , cor. . . yee are the body of christ , &c. and hath power to cast out , cor. . . and to forgive and receive in penitents , cor. . . as a body incorporate ; and therefore he that will joyne unto them , must doe it by way of covenant or agreement ; and so this answer to this objection , may be a fourth argument to prove the point in hand , that joyning in covenant is that which makes a man , a member of a church . all voluntary relations , all relations which are neither naturall nor violent , are entred into by way of covenant . but he that joynes into a church as a member , or enters into a church , doth take upon him such a relation ; therefore joyning ▪ to a church as a member , is by way of covenant . a fifth argument may be drawne from the power which all churches , officers and members , have over all their members in the lord. if all churches , officers , and members , have power in the lord over all their members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to make a man a member of a church , but the former is true , therefore the latter is true also . the assumption in this argument , that all churches have power over their members , is proved from cor. . , . . where the apostle reproveth the corinthians for suffering the incestuous man amongst them , and commands them to deliver him to satan , and cast him out from amongst them . now this he would not have done , if they had had no power over him , or if there had been any roome for them to say , wee have nothing to doe with him , wee have no power over him . and the same is prooved in other scriptures also ; as , mat. . . psal . . . , , . and the consequence of the major proposition , viz. that then members doe engage themselves by covenant , is proved by this reason ; that churches have no power over such as have not engaged themselves by covenant , and committed power unto them , by professing to be subject to all the ordinances of christ amongst them . the truth whereof may appeare by two reasons : first , because all christians have power and right , jure divino , to choose their owne officers to whom they commit their soules , act. . & . & . . where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , imports choosing by election : and so the word is used and translated , cor. . . he was chosen by the churches , &c. it is not ministeriall gifts that makes a man a minister to every church , nor investeth him with spirituall power over them , nor though he dwell amongst them , unlesse they call him , and he accept of that call : and as they have power to choose their officers , so likewise to choose their brethren according to god , rom. . . now if they have power to choose their officers and brethren , then none can have power over them as officers and brethren , without their owne consent , and whom they never chose , nor promised by any covenant or engagement to be subject to the lord. secondly , if the church should exercise any act of church-power over such a man as never entred into covenant with them ( suppose to excommunicate him for whoredome or drunkennesse , or the like ) the man might protest against their act , and their sentence , as coram non judice , and they could not justifie their proceedings , if indeed there have passed no covenant or engagement between him and them . if he shall say , you have nothing to doe to passe sentence or censure upon me , i am none of your church , but of another church ; suppose in holland , in france , &c. and i am onely here now for merchandise sake , or upon some other occasion : what shall they say to stop his mouth , if there never passed any covenant between him and them . but ministers have power over the people by the word of god , heb. . . thes . . . tim. . . and not by mens engaging themselves by covenant . but what is it that makes men ministers to such a people , officers to such a church , or maketh them sheepe of my flocke ? is it not those scriptures that makes every man a pastour , or teacher , or ruler to a people , unlesse they call him to that office ; and then in so doing they covenant and engage themselves to be subject to him in the lord , and then those scriptures take hold on them . one might as well say , it is not the covenanting of a wife to her husband that gives him power over her , but the word of god ; for as the word of god commands people to obey their ministers , so it commands wives to be subject to their husbands , ephes . . . and yet all men know , a man cannot take this woman for his ▪ wife but by covenant . so that if shee once makes her selfe a wife by her owne voluntary covenant , then the word of god takes hold on her , and bindes her to doe the duties of a wife : but if shee ▪ hath made no covenant , the man hath no power over her as her husband , neither is shee his wife ; so if men once make themselves members of such a church , sheepe of such a mans flocke , by their own voluntary covenant , then the word of god takes hold of them , and bindes them to doe the duties of members to their fellow-brethren , and of people to their pastours or ministers . but if they never chose such a man to be their minister , nor covenanted to be subject to him in the lord , he then can have no power over them as a minister unto them , because they have right to chose their owne ministers . a sixth argument may be taken from the distinction that is between members , and not members . if there be by the word of god a distinction , between members of the church and such as are no members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to the being of a member ; but the former is true , as appeares cor. . . some are within , and may be judged by the church , and others are without , and may not ▪ and therefore the latter is true also . and the reason of the consequence is because there is nothing else without this joyning in covenant , that can sufficiently distinguish them ; it is not faith and grace in their hearts , for some men are members of the visible church , and yet have no grace , and others may have grace , and yet be no members , and therefore this is not the thing that doth distinguish them , nor is it affection , nor cohabitation , nor every approbation of the word of god , and the wayes of his church , nor comming into their assemblies to heare the word ; but these things were touched before , and therefore may be here the more briefly passed over . and so much shall suffice to have spoken of the second particular , concerning the use of church-covenant , that it is by joyning therein that a particular person becomes a member of a church . but here it will be needfull to remove sundry objections , which may seeme to some to be of great weight against church-covenant , that so by the removing of them , the truth may be the more cleared , to fuller satisfaction , if it be the will of god. church-covenant is a terme that is not found in scripture . first , so is sacrament , trinitie , &c. and yet those termes may be lawfully used , because the thing meant thereby is found . secondly , but seeing the covenant is between the lord and his church , as the two parties that are confederate , it is all one whether it be called the lords covenant , or the church-covenant : as when mamre , aver , & eschol were confederate with abraham , gen. . . might not one truely say , abraham was confederate with them ? relatives doe mutually put and establish one another . thirdly , the scripture allowes both the lords covenant with the church , eze. . . & the peoples covenant or saints covenant , or churches covenant with him , deut. . . psal . . . jer. . . fourthly , there is good reason for both the words ; both the lords covenant , and the church-covenant , because both are confederate ; and for that of church-covenant , there is this reason also , viz. to distinguish it from other covenants , as a marriage-covenant , pro. . . and a brotherly covenant , sam. . . the church-covenant being thus called not onely because they are a church , or members thereof that make it , but also because they enter into it in reference to church-estate and church-duties : the duties which they bind themselves unto in this covenant being such especially as concern a church and the members thereof . but this church-covenant puts some disparagement upon the covenant of grace , which every beleever is already entred into with god , and seeme to charge the same with insufficiency ; for every second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , heb. . . . a second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , where the covenants are contrary one to another , as the covenant of grace , and the covenant of works are , and so it is most true , that the bringing in of the free covenant of grace did argue that righteousnes and life could not be attained by the law , or covenant of works ; for if there had been a law given which could have given life , verily righteousnesse should have been by the law. gal. . . rom. . . . but if it be the same covenant that is renewed or made againe , though upon a new occasion , no man can say that entring into the same the second time , or a third , or a fourth , doth disanull the first , or cast disparagement upon the same . the covenant of works given to adam was not blamed or faulted , because it was renewed in sinai . the covenant of grace was first given to adam in paradise after his fall , afterward to abraham , then to the people of israel under types and shadows ; and againe after the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet none of these doth disanull the former , or argue the same to be faulty ; and the reason is , because it is still the same covenant though renewed upon new occasions ; and in some particulars in some other manner . and the like we say concerning church-covenant , or the covenant which a man makes when he enters into the church , viz. that it is not another covenant contrary to the covenant of grace , which every beleever is brought into at his first conversion , but an open profession of a mans subjection to that very covenant , specially in the things which concerne church estate , into which estate the man is now entring . it is not lawfull to make such a covenant as the church-covenant , because it is not in our power to keep it , and we do not know whether god will give us power . this ground is very true , that no man hath power of himselfe to any thing that good is , but all a mans power and abilitie must come of god through christ , . cor. . . phil. . . joh. . . but the inference is not good , that therefore it should be unlawfull to ento into church-covenant : for . by the same reason , all promises are unlawfull , and all covenants whatsoever ; as the covenant of marriage , the covenant of service , yea and the personall covenant of grace , when a particular soule promiseth faith and new obedience ; for there is none of these , no not the covenant of marriage , which a man is able of himself to keep , as the adultery of david and bathsheba , among others , doth plainly prove . . god hath promised to give power to them that in self-deniall seek it of him , and trust to his promise for it . ezek. . . jer. . . rom. . . jer. . . the true inference therefore from this ground , from mans disabilitie to performe were this , that therefore a man should not enter into church covenant in his owne strength , for that was peters fault in promising not to deny christ , but to die with him rather : but church-covenant , as also all other promises , should be entred into , in an humble looking up to christ jesus for help and assistance to performe . thou therefore my sonne , be strong in the grace that is in christ jesus , . tim. . . god disalloweth covenants of mans making ( and so our church-covenant ) in those words , but not by thy covenant . ezek. . . god doth not reprove them there for making covenant , for then he were contrary to himselfe , who elsewhere called them to do it , exod. . deut. . and commended them for it , psal . . . yea and in that very place of ezek. . acknowledgeth a covenant betweene him and them , ver . . . but the meaning is , he would do them good , but not for their good keeping the covenant of works , for they had very sinfully broken it , ver . but even as he saith elsewhere , not for their sakes , or for their righteousnesse , ezek. . . deut. . , , . but what force is there in this arguing , viz. if god will do us good , but not for our good keeping the covenant of works , then it is not lawfull to promise obedience to the covenant of grace , in such things as concerne church estate ; all men may easily see that here is a plaine non sequitur . this entring into covenant may keep out many good men from joyning to the churches , because they are not satisfied about it : and therefore it is better laid aside . it is not impossible , but good men may for a time be unsatisfied about it , till they understand the nature and use of it , and yet the thing be warrantable enough for all that in the sight of god ; the tribes were troubled at the altar set up upon the banks of jordan by the two tribes and an halfe , till they understood the intent and use of it , and for what purpose it was erected : and then they were satisfied . josh . . and the same may be said of peters eating with the gentiles , which at the first was very offensive to them of the circumcision , till they understood what peter had to say for his defence therein , and then they rested well satisfied , act. . but if men understand what the church-covenant is , there is no reason that good men should be troubled at it ; it being nothing else but a promise of obedience unto the gospel of christ , or of such duties as the gospel requireth of all christians in church-estate : for , will good men refuse to obey the gospel , or submit to the ordinances of christ ? or will they refuse to professe and promise so much ? if a man understand what it is , and what we meane by it , and yet refuse to enter into it when he hath opportunitie thereto , such refusing is no part of his goodnesse , but is to be reckoned amongst his corruptions ; it is ignorance at the best , and if not so , then it may be perversenesse of will , or some want of will to performe obedience to the gospel . and surely there is smal hope that such would yeeld subjection and obedience to the gospel , who do refuse to professe or promise it . but the scripture , act. . . tels of joyning to the church without any covenant . for it was not possible that . should enter into covenant in one day . two things may be said in answer to this objection . first , that . were not so many , but that joyning in covenant might easily be done by them all , in one day . for , . it was at penticost , at which time of the yeer the dayes were at the longest : and , . the scripture tels us , that david made a covenant with all the tribes of israel in one day , . sam. , , . the articles of the covenant betweene david and the tribes , and so betweene this . and the lord might be openly declared , and they both the one and the other might by some signe or other , expresse their consent thereunto in one day . secondly , as joyning in covenant is a thing that might be done , so it is more then probable that indeed it was done , by those . soules for it is said , ver . . that they gladly received the word , that is , they openly professed that they did with all their hearts receive it , for this receiving of the word is noted as a condition , upon which they were admitted to baptisme , and therefore it was not onely an inward receiving of it in their hearts , but also an open professing that they did receive it ; for an inward receiving of it in their hearts , without an open professing thereof outwardly , would not have been sufficient for the admitting of them unto baptisme . now this word which they received was an exhortation to repentance for sinne , and to faith in the promise , ver . . and to obedience in severing themselves from others , and saving themselves from that untoward generation , ver . . and therefore when they openly professed , that they gladly received this word , there was an open professing of their repentance for sinne , ver . . of their faith in the promise , and of obedience to the commandement , which is nothing else , but the very summe of church-covenant : yea , and further , their very preparation to this repentance , faith and obedience , in that true compunction and sorrow of soul , was also openly made manifest . ver . . but yet there would not be such long narrations , of every one severally as now are used , when men do enter into church-covenant , when each one makes a good long speech , in the profession of his faith and repentance . when the thing is certaine , as was shewed before , that they did openly professe repentance , faith and obedience , it is not difference in the length or largenesse of their speeches in expressing of themselves , that can make any difference in the thing : majus & minus non diversificant speciem . and we denie not but they might be briefer , because there was not such need they should be long in regard of some difference betweene them and us , their time and ours : first there were the apostles present to heare their confessions , and to judge thereof , who were men of very good discerning , and therefore briefer expressing of mens selves might suffice ; whereas the best christians , yea the best ministers amongst us are not to be compared to the apostles ; and therefore as we need more time for study , and for preparation for our sermons then they did : so likewise we need more time to heare , and try the soundnesse of mens repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . yet this we may adde withall , that if the apostles and those primative christians , men of such excellent discerning were sometimes deceived , and could not alwayes so discern , but that some hypocrites would creep into the church : as the example of ananias and saphira doth witnesse ; how much more need is there , that the churches of god in these dayes ( being far inferiour to them ) should be very watchfull and circumspect in trying the spirituall estates of them that offer to come into the church ? secondly , their times also differed from ours : for their christianitie was a matter of reproach and danger of excommunication , joh. . . of imprisonment , act. . . and . . and the like . and therefore to see men now to make open profession of their faith in christ jesus , whose servants and disciples were so hated , and who himselfe but a while before was crucified , this was not an ordinarie matter : and therefore in words , men might be the briefer when they came to be received into the church : but our times in new england do not persecute christ , and christians , and christian churches , but countenance them , and protect them ; and therefore there is more need now to be more studious in examination of mens estates when they offer themselves for church members : when the jews were in favour , many of the people of the land became jews , esth . . . but why is there so little proofe of this church-covenant in the new testament ? . suppose the new testament said nothing of it , yet it might have ground sufficient from the scriptures of the old testament ; for if it was gods revealed will in those dayes , that a companie should become a church , and particular persons become members of that church by way of covenant , we may be sure it is so now likewise , unlesse covenanting were peculiar to the jewish paedigogie ; indeed if it had never been used in those times , but were some new ordinance , peculiar to the dayes of the new testament , in such cases also a ground from the scriptures of the new testament were necessarie , as there is in all such things wherein there is any change or variation , from what was used in those times afore christ , as that there should not be nationall churches , but congregationall , and not one visible church , but many , that there should be baptisme , and the lords supper : these are matters that are not found in the old testament , nor were appointed to be used in those dayes , and therefore we must have warrant for them in the new , and so we have . but for the covenant it is otherwise , it is no new ordinance peculiar to the dayes of the gospel , nor any leviticall ordinance peculiar to the jewish pedigogie ; and therefore the scriptures of the old testament that give warrant for it , may be sufficient as hath been shewed afore . . and yet there is not wanting good warrant for it , that it ought to be used , in the dayes of the new testament . for , . the prophets do foretell it , isa . . , . and . . and jer. . . ezek. . . and in sundrie other places , to omit the rest at this time , because some of them have been spoken of before ; onely let those words of isa . . . be well considered , and see if they do not plainly hold forth that in the dayes of the new testament , men should openly professe their faith , and solemnly bind themselves by covenant , to be the lords people , one shall say , i am the lords , and another shall call himself by the name of jacob , and another shall subscribe with his hand , and sirname himself by the name of israel . these words are so plaine for open professing of faith in the lord , and open binding of mens selves by covenant unto him , as we conceive nothing need be more . . the apostles do sufficiently testifie , that such a thing was practised in their dayes , else how should we understand that fellowship in the gospel in its full latitude and breadth , phil. . . if this combining into church-fellowship be no part thereof ; yea when it is said , they continued stedfastly , or as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , may well be translated , they strongly did cleave together , or hold together in such a fellowship , which was not preaching and hearing the doctrine of the apostles , nor sacraments , nor prayer , but a thing distinct from all these . if this combining themselves into a spirituall fellowship and societie of church-state be no part thereof , we know not how to understand it , nor what that fellowship should meane ; if doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer had not been particularly mentioned , in the same place , it might have been thought that the fellowship in which they so steadfastly clave together had been no more , but their coming together to observe these said ordinances , and their communion therein . but when all these are particularly mentioned , and fellowship mentioned among them , as a thing distinct from the rest , we may not confound it with the rest . we might as well say , that by doctrine is meant sacraments , and by sacraments is meant prayer ; as to say that by fellowship is meant nothing else but the exercise of doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer . and if these as they are distinctly named , be distinct ordinances , and may not be confounded , then fellowship being named in the same manner imports something distinct from them all , and may not be confounded with them , nor with any of them , no more then the other may be confounded one with another . and if so , then as this fellowship may import , the communion of their gift and goods one for the helpe of another , so it must first of all imply a combining of themselves into church-state by mutuall agreement , consent , or covenant . furthermore , when the apostle writeth , that by experience of the corinthians liberall contribution to the poore saints , men glorified god for their professed subjection to the gospel of christ , . cor. . . he plainly imployes thereby , that the corinthians had made a profession or promise of such subjection to the gospel as did comprehend this particular of distributing to the necessitie of the saints , among other things . and their liberall distribution which he there speaks of , was looked at as one point of their reall performance of that subjection to the gospel , which they had before professed , and promised . now the church-covenant is nothing else , but the professing or promising of such subjection , and therefore this place is another proofe of church-covenant . besides , it hath been shewed afore in argument . that those places which speake of being added to the church , of joyning , or assaying to joyne unto the church , act. . . and . and . are not expounded according to the full meaning of them , when they are understood of any other joyning , if joyning in covenant be left out . and therefore the scriptures of the new testament do beare good witnesse unto church-covenant , though , as we said before , the scriptures of the old testament might have been sufficient if the new testament had spoken nothing of it . but baptisme makes men members of the visible church , and therefore the covenant is needlesse . this is answered in the answer to the fourth of the . questions , where it is shewed at large that baptisme ●● a seale of the covenant betweene god and the church , but neither makes the church , nor members of the church , nor alwayes so much as proves men to be members . this church-covenant is a late devise , and was not known in ancient time , and therefore is to be rejected . first , true antiquitie is that of the scriptures . now sith church covenant is warranted by the scripture , as hath been shewed before in this discourse , it cannot be charged to want true antiquitie . when the papists are wont to charge the doctrine of protestants with novelty , and such as was never heard of before luther , the orthodoxe are wont to answer , that if the doctrine do not agree with the scripture , then let it be condemned for noveltie ; and if it do , it is warranted by the best antiquitie , even the testimonie of god himself who is the antient of dayes : our faith , faith doctor white , is in all points the same that is contained in the scripture , and so consequently of the same antiquitie : and therefore all they that say it came up but of late , must first prove it contrary to the word of god , or else hold their peace . white , way , . . and the same we say in this particular of the church-covenant . secondly , and yet they that search the stories and writers of the times and ages next after the apostles , may find some testimonie of church-covenant in those dayes : for instance , justine martyr in his apol. . makes mention of three things which were required of all that were admitted into the church as members , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is regeneration , and soundnesse in the faith , and a promise to walke in obedience to the gospel . and generally this was the practise of all those times , that never any man was admitted to baptisme , nor his children neither , but they put him to answer three questions , abrenuntios ? whereto he answered , abrenuntio . credis ? whereto his answer was , credo : and spondes ? to which he answered , spondes . so that here was an open declaration of his repentance from dead works , and of the soundnesse of his faith , in the two first particulars , and an open binding himself by covenant or promise to walke according to the gospel , in the third . but much needs not to be said in this point , unto them that do acknowledge scripture antiquitie to be sufficient , though after times should be found to swerve from the rules and patterns that are therein contained . if church-covenant be so necessarie , then all the reformed churches are to be condemned as no churches ; for they have no such covenant . they that have knowne those churches , not onely by their writings , and confessions of their faith , in synods and otherwise ; but also by living amongst them , and being eye-witnesses of their order , do report otherwise of them , viz. that they are combined together by solemne covenant with god and one another . zepperus , speaking of the manner , used in the reformed churches , in admitting the children of church-members to the lords table , when they came to age , and have been sufficiently catechised , and instructed in the doctrine of religion ▪ tells us , that such children are admitted to the lords table , by publick profession of faith , and entring into covenant . consuetum est , saith l●e , ut qui per atatem inque doctrinâ catecheticâ profectum ad sacram coenam primum admittuntur , fidei confessionem coram totâ ecclesiâ publice edant per parentes aut qui parentum loco sunt , jussû ministri , in ecclesia conspectum producti : quòdque in illa confessione , per dei gratiam perstare , ac , juxta illam , vitam instituere , insuper etiam disciplina ecclesiasticae ultrò ac spoute suâ subjicere sese velint , spondeant atque stipulentur , polit. eccles . lib. . cap. . p. . that is , the manner is , that they who by reason of age and proficiencie in the doctrine of catechisme are first admitted to the lords supper , should publickly before the whole church make confession of their faith , being brought forth into the sight of the church by their parents , or them that are instead of parents , at the appointment of the minister ; and likewise should promise and covenant by the grace of god to continue in that faith which they have confessed , and to lead their lives according to it ; yea , and moreover to subject themselves freely and willingly to the discipline of the church . these words we see are full and plaine , that children are not in those churches received to the lords supper , without personall confession of faith , and entring into covenant before ; and if they tooke this course with children come to age , there is as much reason , or more , that the same course should be holden with men of yeers , when they are admitted members . and so the same zepperus , speaking of the consociation of churches amongst themselves by mutuall confederation , hath these words , which as they may be applyed to the combining of many churches , so may they be combining of many members of the same church , 〈◊〉 illa 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quam in symbolo profite nunc apostolico , nihil aliud hic requirit , & vult , quam obligationem omnium ecclesiae membrorum & confoederationem , &c. that is , that communion of saints which we professe in the creed , doth require and meane nothing else but an obligation of all the members of the church , and a binding of them together by covenant . polit. eccles . li. c. . p . to these testimonies of z●pp●r●● , those words may be added of mr. parker our own countreyman , a man of singular note for learning and holinesse , who also himselfe lived sometimes beyond sea in the reformed churches , and there ended his dayes , so that we may safely give the more credit to his testimonie , he having so good meanes fully to know the state and order of those churches . now he speaketh of a solennis forma absque quâ in ecclesiae alicujus communionem nullus ritè recipitur : of a solemne forme , without which no man is rightly received into the communion of the church , hath these words . hic mos ille est reformatarum ecclesiarum non solum in lapsis restituendis , sed in extra●eis , i●ò quibuscunque recipiendis qui ad habitandum alicubi consident , etsi fortè in ecclesiâ illius loci quo ante commo● abantur , juxta hanc formam admissi prius fuerant . examinat presbyterium , plebs consentit , quisque testes vita sua secum adfert , vel testimonia sal●em : publicatur nomen cuiusque competentis pro con●io●e , admonetur quisque siquid habeat quod excipiat , ut denunciet presbyteris . si nihil contrà adferatur , admittitur quidem , sed non nisi solerni pactione cum deo & cum ecclesiâ ▪ spondet verò ecclesiae ▪ se ambulaturum prout sanctam illam communionem decet ; disciplinae illius ecclesiae subjacere velle , se fratribus illius communionis invigilaturum juxta christi praeceptum , matth. . . ut praeveniantur sanentur que scandala , & illi ad studium bonorum operum provehantur . that is , this is the manner of the reformed churches , not onely in restoring such as have fallen , but in admitting of strangers , yea of all whoever they be , who do sit down in any place for habitation , though perhaps they have been formerly admitted after the same manner in the church where they have formerly dwelt ; the presbytery doth examine , the people do consent , every man brings with him witnesses of his life , or at least-wise testimonies : the name of each one that desires to be a member , is published in the assembly , every one is admonished if he have any exception against the party , to bring it to the presbytery . if nothing be brought against him , then indeed he is admitted ; but yet no otherwise then by a solemne covenant with god and the church ; and to the church he promiseth that he will walk as becometh that holy fellowship , that he will be subject to the discipline of that church , that he will watch over the brethren of that communion , according to the command of christ , mat. . . that offences may be prevented and healed , &c. polit. eccles lib. cap. . § . pag. , . much more he hath to the same purpose in that place , alledging sundry canons and decrees of synods of reformed churches , wherein they have determined that none should be received into their churches , but by this way of solemne covenant . and others that have lived amongst them may have been eye-witnesses that this is their usuall practise . but what shall be said of the congregations in england , if churches must be combined by covenant ? doth not this doctrine blot out all those congregations out of the catalogue of churches ? for what ever covenant may be found in the reformed churches in other parts , yet it is plaine that the english have none . though we deny not but the covenant in many of those congregations is more implicite and not so plaine as were to be desired ; ( and what is amisse in them , in their materialls , or in want of explicite combining of pure matter , or many of their wayes , wee will not take upon us to defend ) yet we hope we may say of them with master parker , polit. eccles . lib . cap. . § . pag. . non abost ea realis & substantialis ( quanquam magis quàm par●rat implicita ) coitio in foedus , eaque voluntaria professio fidei substantialis : quâ ( deo gratia ) essentiam ecclesiae idque visibilis hacusque sartam tectam in angliâ conservavit ; that is , there wants not that reall and substantiall comming together , ( or agreeing in covenant , though more implica●e then were meete ) and that substantiall profession of faith , which ( thanks be to god ) hath preserved the essence of visible churches in england unto this day . the reasons why wee are loath to say , that the congregations in england are utterly without a covenant , are these : first , because there were many christian churches in england in the apostles time , or within a while after , as master fox sheweth at large , act. & mon. lib. . beginning pag . where he reporteth out of gildas , that england received the gospel in the time of tiberius the emperour , under whom christ suffered , and that joseph of arimathea was sent of philip the apostie from france to england about the yeare of christ . and remained in england all his time , and so he with his fellowes layd the first foundation of christian faith among the britaine people , and other preachers and teachers comming afterward , confirmed the same and increased it . also the said master fox reporteth out of tertullian , that the gospel was dispearsed abroad by the sound of the apostles into many nations , and amongst the rest into britaine , yea into the wildest places of britaine , which the romans could never attaine unto : and alledgeth also out of ni●●phorus , that simon zelotes did spread the gospel to the west ocean , and brought the same into the iles of britaine : and sundry other proofes he there hath for the same point . now if the gospel and christian religion were brought into england in the apostles times , and by their means , it is like that the english churches were then constituted by way of covenant , because that was the manner of constituting churches in the apostles time , as also in the times asore christ , as hath been shewed from the scripture before in this discourse . and if christian congregations in england were in those times combined by covenant , then eternitie of gods covenant is such , that it is not the interposition of many corruptions that may arise in after times that can disanull the same , except when men wilfully breake covenant and reject the offers of the gospel through obstinacy , which we perswade our selves they are not come unto : and consequently the covenant remaines which hath preserved the essence of churches to this day ; though the mixture of manifold corruptions , have made the covenant more implicite then were meete . secondly , because there want no good records ( as may be seene in seldens history of tithes ) to prove that in former times in england it was free for men to pay their tithes and oblations where themselves pleased : now this paying of tithes was accounted as a dutie of people to their minister , or sheepe to their pastour : and therefore seeing this was by their owne voluntary agreement and consent , their joyning to the church as members thereof , & to the ministery thereof as sheepe of such a mans flock , was also by their owne voluntary agreement and consent : and this doth imply a covenant ●● was not the precincts of parishes that did limit men in those dayes , but their owne choice . thirdly , those questions and answers ministred at baptisme , spoken of before , ( viz. do●st thou renounce ? i doe renounce : doest thou beleeve ? i doe beleeve : doest thou promise ? i doe promise ) as they were used in other places , so were they also in england , and are unto this day , though not without the mixture of sundry corruptions . now this doth imply a covenant . and when the children came to age , they were not to be admitted to the lords supper , before they had made personall confession of their owne faith , and ratified the covenant which was made at their baptisme by their parents , which course indeed afterward did grow into a sacrament of confirmation , but that was an abuse of a good order . if here it be said , that the members of the parishionall assemblies are not brought in by their owne voluntary profession , but by the authority and proclamation of the prince , and therefore they have no such covenant . the answer is , that the christian prince doth but his dutie when he doth not tollerate within his dominions any open idolatry , or the open worship of false gods by baptized persons , but suppresseth the same : and likewise when he gives free libertie to the exercise of all the ordinances of true religion , according to the minde of christ , with countenance also and encouragement unto all those whose hearts are willingly bent thereunto , ezra . . . . & . . and therefore this practise of his cannot overthrow the freenesse of mens ioyning in church ▪ communion , because one dutie cannot oppose nor contradict another . and suppose that this course of the magistrate should seeme to be a forcing of some to come in for members who were unfit , ( in which case it were not justifiable ) yet this doth not hinder the voluntary subjection of others , who with all their hearts desired it . when the israelites departed out of aegypt , there went a mixed multitude with them , many going with them that were not israelites indeed , exod. . and in the dayes of mordecay and hesther , many of the people of the lands became jewes , when the jewes were in favour and respect , est . . . and so joyned to them not of their owne voluntary minde , nor of any sincere heart towards god , but meerely for the favour or ●eare of men ; yet this forced or seined joyning of some could not hinder those that were israelites indeed from being israelites , nor make the jewes to be no jewes , no church-members . and the same may be said in this case , suppose the magistrates proclamation should be a cause , or an occasion rather , of bringing some into the church , who came not of their owne voluntary minde , but for feare , or for obteining favour , yet this cannot hinder , but others might voluntarily and freely covenant to be subject to the gospel of christ : such subjection and the promise of it being the thing which themselves did heartily desire , though the magistrate should have said nothing in it . if any shall hereupon inferre , that if the parishionall assemblies be churches , then the members of them may be admitted to church priviledges in new england , before they joyne to our churches : such one may finde his answer in the answer to the tenth of the thirty-two questions ; whereunto we doe referre the reader for this point . onely adding this , that this were contrary to the judgement and practise of the reformed churches , who doe not admit a man for member without personall profession of his faith , and joyning in covenant , though he had formerly been a member of a church in another place , as was shewed before out of master parker . lastly , if any say , that if these reasons prove the english congregations to have such a covenant as proves them to be churches , then why may not rome , and the assemblies of papists goe for true churches also ? for some man may thinke that the same things may be said for them that here in answer to this eleventh objection are said for the parishes in england : such one must remember two things : first , that we doe not say simply , a covenant makes a company a true church , but ( as was said before ) a covenant to walke in such wayes of worship to god and edification of one another , as the gospel of christ requireth . for who doubts ▪ but there may be an agreement among theeves , pro. . a confederation among gods enemies , psal . . a conspiracy among the arabians , the ammonites and ashdodites , to hinder the building of hierusalem , neh. . , . and yet none of these are made true churches by such kind of confederacies or agreements . and so wee may say of the assemblies of papists , especially since the counsell of trent . if there be any agreement or confederacy among them , it is not to walke in the wayes of the gospell , but in wayes contrary to the fundamentall truths of the gospel , as idolatry in worship , heresie in doctrine , and other antichristian pollutions and corruptions : and therefore if they combined in these things , such combinations will never prove them true churches . the church is the pillar and ground of truth , tim. . . but the religion of papists is so farre from truth , that whosoever liveth and beleeveth according to it , without repentance , cannot be saved . witnesse their doctrine in the point of vilifying the scriptures , and in point of free-will , and of justification by works , of the popes supremacy , of the sacrifice of the masse , of worshipping of images , &c. in regard of which , and such like , the holy ghost saith , that their religion is a sea , become as the bloud of a dead man , and every soule in that sea dyeth , rev. . . and therefore agreement in such a religion will never prove them to be true churches ; nor any assemblies of arrians , antitrinitaries , anabaptists , or famelists , supposing them also to be combined by covenant among themselves . but now for the assemblies in england , the case is farre otherwise ; for the doctrine of the articles of religion which they professe , and which they promise to hold and observe ( though some things are amisse in some of those articles , and though many persons live contrary in their lives ) yet the doctrine is such that whosoever beleeveth , and liveth according to it , shall undoubtedly be saved , and many thousands have been saved therein ▪ and therefore assemblies united by covenant to observe this doctrine may be true churches , when the assemblies of papists and others may be false , although they also were combined by covenant : the reason of the difference rising from the difference that is in the doctrine and religion which they severally professe , and by covenant binde themselves to observe , the one being fundamentally corrupt , and consequently pernicious : the other in the fundamentall points orthodoxall and sound . secondly , it must be remembred also ( which was intimated before ) that if fundamentall corruptions be professed in with impenitency and obstinacy , then god may disanull the covenant on his part , and give a bill of divorce to such a people , jere. . . now experience and the scripture also doth witnesse of the jesuited and trent-papists , that they repented not of the workes of their hands , of worshipping devills , and idolls of gold , &c. neither repented they of their murthers , nor of their sorceries , nor of their fornications , nor of their thefts , rev. . , . but now for the parish assemblies in england , we hope that we may safely say , they doe not sinne of obstinacy , but of ignorance , having not been convinced ( and many of them never having had means to be convinced ) of the corruptions that are amongst them , in respect of their constitution , and worship , and ministery , and so the covenant remaining among them , may prove them to be churches , when it cannot stand the papists in like stead , they being impenitent and obstinate : which we doe not speake to justifie the parishes altogether , as if there were not dangerous corruptions found in them , nay rather ( the lord be mercifull to the sinnes of his people ) wee may lament it with teares , that in respect of their members and ministery , in respect of their worship and walkings , in many of those assemblies there are found such apparent corruptions , as are justly grievous to a godly soule , that is enlightened to discerne them , and greatly displeasing to the lord , and indeed had need to be repented of betime , least otherwise the lord remove the candlesticke and unchurch them , rev. . . in a word , the corruptions remaining are just causes of repentance and humiliation : but yet in as much as the articles of religion , which they professe , containe such wholesome doctrine , that whosoever beleeveth and walketh according thereunto , in sinceritie , shall undoubtedly be saved , and in as much as the corruptions are not persisted in with obstinacy , therefore wee deny not but they have the truth of churches remaining . but this opinion of church-covenant , is holden by none but the brownists , or those of the separation , and therefore it is not to be received . this ground cannot be made good , that none but they of the separation are for church-covenant , for all the reformed churches generally , as was shewed before in answer to objection the tenth , are for it in their judgement & practise ; and shall all they be condemned for * brownists , or maintaining unlawfull separation from the church ? also master parker and doctor ames , men of our owne nation , famous for holinesse and learning , and moderation , both of them plead for church-covenant , and yet neither of them were brownists , but bare witnesse against that riged separation . for doctor ames , his judgement of church-covenant may be seene in his medulla , theol. lib. . cap. . § , , . fideles non constitunt ecclesiam particularem , quamvis simul forsan plures in eodem loco conveniant aut vivant , nisi speciali vinculo intersese conjunguntur , &c. that is , beleevers doe not make a particular church , though perhaps there be many of them that meete ▪ together , and live in the same place , unlesse they be joyned together by some speciall bond amongst themselves : for so one church would many times be dissolved into many , and many churches confounded into one . now this bond is a covenant , either expressed or implicite , whereby beleevers do binde themselves particularly to performe all such duties , both towards god and mutually to one another , as pertaine to the nature of a church , and their edification . and thereupon no man is rightly admitted into the church , but by confession of his faith , and stipulation , or promise of obedience . these words doe plainely and fully shew his judgement of church-covenant , to be the very same that is held and practised in new-england at this day . and that he was not for that severitie and regiditie of separation , may be cleared from sundry of his workes , wherein he plainly and fully beares witnesse against the same , and namely , in his fresh suite against ceremonies , pag. . and in his second manuduction , wherein he purposely and at large deales in this argument of separation . sure it is master canne in his booke , wherein he goes about to prove the necessitie of separation from the non-conformists principles , doth professedly and expressely oppose himselfe against doctor ames in the point of separation , which shewes how farre the good doctor was from favouring that way , when they most zealously therein doe count him to be a speciall opposite of theirs , as indeed he was . and for master parker , his judgement of church-covenant was heard before in part ; where he so much approveth the practise of the reformed churches in this point . and much more may be seene of his judgement herein , in the sixteenth chap. of the third booke of his polit. ecclesiastica . and yet in the same place , and likewise lib . cap. . . of the same treatise he plentifully and plainly shewes his dislike of the wayes of separation , as is also acknowledged in an admonition to the reader , prefixed before that booke , by i. r. suo , suorumque nomine . so that this assertion appeares to be untrue , wherein it is said , that none but brownists and separatists doe approve of church-covenant . as for the inference from this ground , that therefore church-covenant should not be received , because it is pleaded for and practised by the separatists . we answer , that this will not follow , unlesse it could be proved , that the separatists hold no truth ; or if they hold a truth wee must not hold it , that so it may appeare wee differ from them ; either of which , it were unreasonable to affirme . if the papists hold sundry articles of faith , as that there is a unitie of the divine essence , and trinitie of persons , that jesus christ is god and man , and that true messiah that was promised , and the onely saviour of the world , and many such like , must wee deny these things because they are holden by the papists ? this were as unreasonable as to condemne the doctrine of the resurrection , because it was maintained by the pharisees , act. . . and so we say of church-covenant , holden and practised by them of the separation ; as also many other truths are maintained by them : no reason that truth should be refused , because the separatists maintaine it . when doctor bancroft in a sermon at pauls-crosse , had avouched that the superioritie of bishops above other ministers , is by gods owne ordinance , and to make the contrary opinion odious , affirmed that aerius persisting in it , was condemned for an heretique by the generall consent of the whole church , and that martin and his companions , doe maintaine the same opinion of aerius ; what saith learned doctor reinolds hereunto , in a letter to sir francis knolls , who required him to shew his judgement herein : touching martin , saith he , if any man behave himselfe otherwise then in discretion and charitie he ought , let the blame be laid where the fault is , and defend him not ; but if by the way he utter a truth , mingled with whatsoever else , it is not reason that that which is of god should be condemned for that which is of man : no more then the doctrine of the resurrection should be reproved , because it was maintained and held by the pharisees : wherefore removing the odious name of martin from that which is sinceritie and love , is to be dealt with , &c. and the very same doe wee say to them that would make church-covenant to be odious , because it is held by those of the seperation , who are commonly called brownists : if men behave themselves otherwise then they ought , we defend them not therein , but if they hold any truth mingled with whatsoever else , wee would not have that which is of god to be condemned , for that which is of man : truth should not be refused , because of other corruptions that may be found in them that hold it . if you with them hold church-covenant , you iustifie them in all their wayes of seperation and erronious opinions . not so , for many of them hold that there are no visible christians that stand members of the parishes in england , and that it is not lawfull to hold any private religious communion with such persons ; and that the parishionall assemblies are none of them true churches , and that it is not lawfull to hear any of those ministers to preach the word , none of which are justified at all by holding church-covenant , though they do hold the same ; there is no such necessarie and inseparable connexion betweene these opinions , and that of church-covenant , that he that holds this , must needs hold the other also . but the time hath been , when your selves did not hold church-covenant , as now you do ; when you were in england you were not of this mind , and therefore no marvell if your change since your coming to new england be suspected , and offensive . if you change your judgement and practise in this manner , god knows whether you may come at last , and therefore men may well be afraid of holding with you in this point , which your selves did not hold when you lived in your native countrey . some of us when we were in england , through the mercie of god , did see the necessitie of church-covenant ; and did also preach it to the people amongst whom we ministred , though neither so soone nor so fully as were meete , for which we have cause to be humbled , and to judge our selves before the lord. but suppose we had never knowne nor practised the same before our coming into this countrey , yet if it be a truth of god , there is no reason why we should shut our eyes against the light , when god holds it forth unto us , nor that others should be offended at us for receiving the same . for by the same reason men might still continue in their sinnes , and not make any progresse in knowledge and holinesse , that so they may not seeme unconstant , which were contrary to the scripture , wherein we are commanded nor to fashion our selves according to the former lusts of our ignorance . . pet. . . but to be changed , rom. . . and renued , ephes . . . and put off the old man , and put on the new , ephes . . yea to grow in grace and holinesse , . pet. . . and be stronger and stronger , job . . that our good workes may be more at the last , then at the first , revel . . . sure it is , the apostle tells the corinthians and ephesians , that the time had been when they were not the same men that now they are when he wrote unto them ; and yet he doth not blame them for leaving their former opinions or practise , but commends them for it , . cor. . . ephes . . . &c. and it is said of apollos an eloquent man , and mighty in the scripture , that when he came to ephesus the way of god was expounded unto him more perfectly by aquila and priscilla , whereas before he was instructed in the way of the lord , knowing onely the baptisme of john : yet this was no dispraise at all to him , that now upon better information he would change his judgement to the better , nor unto them that were the means thereof : act. . , . nullus pudor est ad maliura transire . the time hath been , ( and we may be humbled for it ) when we lived without god in the world , and some of us in many sinfull courses : and shall any be offended , because we are not still the same ? and when god called us from the wayes of sin and death , to the fellowship of his grace in christ ; yet some of us lived a long time in conformity to the ceremonies imposed in our native countrey , and saw not the evill of them . but when god did open our eyes , and let us see the unlawfulnesse thereof , we cannot see but it would have been a with-holding the truth in unrighteousnesse , and a great unthankfulnesse to god for light revealed to us , if we should still have continued in that course through an inordinate desire of seeming constant : and therefore it is not any just cause of offence that we have changed our judgement and practise in those things , when we once perceived the word of god to disallow them . indeed it hath been sometime objected against mr. cartwright , and others , that desired the reformation of the churches in england , in regard of discipline and church-order , that they which stood so much for reformation in discipline , did in after times adde and alter some things , beyond what they saw at first , and what themselves had formerly desited ; and that therefore being so murable , and inconstant in their apprehensions , they were not to be regarded , nor hearkened unto : to which objection mr. pa●k●r makes full answer in eccles . lib. . ca. . p. ▪ where he sheweth from the scripture , and the testimonie of bishop jewel , doctor reinolds , and others , that in the reformation of religion god brings not his servants into perfection in knowledge and zeale at the first , but by degrees , so as they grow and make progresse in these things in such wise , that their good works are more at the last then at the first , as was said of the church of thyatira , even as the man that had been blind , when christ ●● stored him to his sight , could at the first but see men like tr●… walking , and afterward saw every man cleerly ; and therefore●… is no good arguing to say these men have altered and correc●… such things from what their apprehensions were at first , and therefore they are not to be regarded . now if this be no good arguing against mr. cartwright , and those that in england have been studious of reformation ( as indeed it is not ) then it is no good argument against us in this m●●ter of church-covenant , to say we now hold and practise otherwise then we have done in former time . if any shall here reply , that change from conformity to the cerem●nies to worship god more purely is warranted by the word , and therefore not blame-worthy , and that the same may be said of the case of apollos , of the corinthians , and ephesians forementioned , and of cartwright , and the rest in his times . we answer , that this is true , and thereby it appears , that it is not simply the changing a mans opinion or practise that can be counted blame-worthy , or offensive , but changing without warrant of the word ; and therefore in point of church-covenant , the iss●● must not be whether we or others have formerly known and practised it , but whether it have ground from gods word ; for if it have ( as we hope have been proved before in this discourse ) then the observing of it , can be no cause of just offence unto others , not imputation of inconstancy to our selves , though in time past we had not had so much light as to discerne the necessitie and use thereof . the good lord pardon every one that prepareth his heart to seek god , though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary : and grant unto all his churches and servants ▪ that their love may abound yet more and more in knowledge , and in all judgement , that they may discerne the things that differ ▪ and approve the things that are excellent , and by his spirit of truth be led forward into all truth , till antichrist be utterly consumed with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his coming , and the holy city new jerusalem come down from god out of heaven , as a bride adorned for her husband the lambe , the lord jesus , to whom be all glory of affiance and service for ever . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e to. . to : . to : . object . answ . to . & . to . to . to . to . to . obj : answ : to . to . to . to . to . to . to . to to . to . t● . to . to . & . to . to . to . to . to . to . to . notes for div a -e object . answer . object . answer . object . answer . object . answer . argu. . object . . answer . obj. . answ . obj. . answer . argu. . argu. . argu. . object . answer . argu. . argu. . object . answer . argu. . object . . answer . obj. . answ . obj. . answer . object . . answ . object . . answ . argu. . argu. . object . answer . argu. . object . . answer . object . . answ . obj. . answ . obj. . answ . obj. . answ . obj. . answ . reply . answ . obj. . answ . obj. . answ . obj. . answ . obj. . answ . obj . ans● . obj. . answ . * by brownists and separatists you are to understād those of the riged separation . reply . answ . obje . . answ . reply . answ . a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book, against the independency of churches. wherein his foure arguments for the government of synods over particular congregations, are friendly examined, and clearly answered. together, with christian and loving animadversions upon sundry other observable passages in the said booke. all tending to declare the true use of synods, and the power of congregationall churches in the points of electing and ordaining their owne officers, and censuring their offendors. by richard mather teacher of the church at dorchester; and william tompson pastor of the church at braintree in new-england. sent from thence after the assembly of elders were dissolved that last met at cambridg to debate matters about church-government. mather, richard, - . this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a of text r in the english short title catalog (thomason e _ ). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo a wing m thomason e _ estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; :e [ ]) a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book, against the independency of churches. wherein his foure arguments for the government of synods over particular congregations, are friendly examined, and clearly answered. together, with christian and loving animadversions upon sundry other observable passages in the said booke. all tending to declare the true use of synods, and the power of congregationall churches in the points of electing and ordaining their owne officers, and censuring their offendors. by richard mather teacher of the church at dorchester; and william tompson pastor of the church at braintree in new-england. sent from thence after the assembly of elders were dissolved that last met at cambridg to debate matters about church-government. mather, richard, - . tompson, william, d. . [ ], p. printed for henry overton in popes-head alley, london : . annotation on thomason copy: the second in has been crossed out; "march: ". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng herle, charles, - . -- independency of scriptures of the independency of churches. congregational churches -- government -- early works to . councils and synods -- england -- early works to . a r (thomason e _ ). civilwar no a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book, against the independency of churches.: wherein his foure arguments for the gove mather, richard c the rate of defects per , words puts this text in the c category of texts with between and defects per , words. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images - john latta sampled and proofread - john latta text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book , against the independency of churches . wherein his foure arguments for the government of synods over particular congregations , are friendly examined , and clearly answered . together , with christian and loving animadversions upon sundry other observable passages in the said booke . all tending to declare the true use of synods , and the power of congregationall churches in the points of electing and ordaining their owne officers , and censuring their offendors . by richard mather teacher of the church at dorchester ; and william tompson pastor of the church at braintree in new-england . sent from thence after the assembly of elders were dissolved that last met at cambridg to debate matters about church-government . london , printed for henry overton in popes-head alley , . reverend and deare sir , the right forme of church government being more searched into of late time then formerly , and your self amongst others having written for the governing power , or jurisdiction of synods , over particular churches : we therfore knowing our selves bound as well as others , to try all things , and hold fast that which is good , have considered as the lord hath holpen us ; those arguments of yours which are contained in your book , against the indepency of churches ; and not being satisfied therewith , your book being published in print ; we have therfore thought meet , in like fort to publish our answer , and in that way to shew unto your self and others , what yet hinders us , that we do not think your arguments to be convincing . in which attempt we have bin the more encouraged by your profession ( which we dare not but believe ) that in what you have written , you have aimed at verity , and not at victory ; wherof we are the rather perswaded , because we do perceive your whole discourse to be carried along without passion and bitternesse , in a spirit of meeknesse and love , which also we are willing to acknowledge before all men , to your just commendation , and the glory of that grace of god that gives you such an heart . and it is our hope , that sith you professe to aim at the truth , and do dispute with such a spirit , as if you meant so indeed ; that therfore it will not be unacceptable to you , if any weaknesse be discovered in those grounds wheron you build this perswasion , that in the present question , the truth doth stand on your side . and as your book doth breathe forth a spirit of meeknesse , ingenuity and love ; so we hope you will find , that we have aimed at the like in our answer ; which as we have written and now published it for the truths sake ; and for the help of those that cannot attaine unto larger , and more learned treatises about this subject ; so in speciall manner in love to your self , and our deare country men & friends , as in other places of lancashire , so in your parish of winwick , wherin one of us was born , and the other was for sundry years together an unworthy minister of the gospel of christ . accept therfore we doe beseech you , this brotherly labour of ours , which here we send you , divided into these few chapters . we are also willing upon this occasion , to testifie our thankfullnes for that loving respect which we found from you , when we lived together in that country ; when you were pleased to own us in our sad times . the father of mercies be with you , and with all those that love the truth in sincerity ; and blesse that reverend and grave assembly , wherof we hear your self are a member , that by their wise and holy indeavours , the truth may be cleared , and all corruptions removed in the doctrine , worship , and church government in england , to his praise and glory ; and the comfort of all those who unfainedly desire that the crowne of christ iesus , and the scepter of the son of god , may be gloriously advanced over all ; which is the prayer of your loving brethren , richard mather , and william tompson . a modest and brotherly answer to mr. charles herle his booke against the independency of churches . chapt. i. containing observations upon sundry passages in your stating the question . the independants ( say you ) deny to a synod as the name of a church , so all manner of power of jurisdiction , either to determine , — , or any way oblige such as they shall any way represent . pag. . unlesse it could be proved that in scripture the name of a church is given to a synod , we are not to blamed , though we give not a synod that name , sith we are commanded to hold fast the paterne of the wholsome words of scripture , as sufficient , tim. . . though for this we will not contend . but for power to determine , viz. dogmatically , or by way of doctrine , this we deny not to a synod : for that synod , act. . did put forth such power , and we acknowledge other synods may doe the like upon like occasion , and their determinations being according to the scripture , ought to bind all those whom they represent . they acknowledge that neighbour churches may meet and consult , and advise each other , — and withdraw all fellowship from any one that shall grow pertinaciously scandalous . pag. . and you may adde further , that by their messengers being met in a synod they may determine by the scriptures any matter of controversie that may arise . but for matter of jurisdiction or power of the keyes in excommunication , ordination , or whatever censure , they hold it is entirely and onely in every single congregation , though but of or beleevers . p. . if any hold so small a number as or to be a church so compleat , as to have power of excommunication , ordination and whatever censure , they may if they see cause declare their grounds for so holding . but for our parts for ought we yet see , a church that hath such power as is here spoken of , had need to be a greater number then two or three , even so many as shall be necessary and requisite for the carrying on of church-worke , in admonition and reprehension of one another , as there shall be cause , and therfore they had need to be seaven or more . for a brother that sinneth must so be dealt withall for his recovery , that if he remain impenitent , the proceeding against him is still to goe on by degrees , till at last the matter be brought unto the church , mat. . , . but in all the degrees of proceeding against him , the persons before whom he is called , are in every latter step and degree more in number , then they were in the former , and so the church being the last is the greatest number of all . and yet there are three at the least that must be acquainted with the matter , before it must be brought unto the church , viz. the brother offending , the brother offended , and one witnesse at the least ; so that the church consisting of those three or foure that deal in the matter before it come into the church , and of another number greater then they , and distinct from them to whom the matter is brought in the last place must needs consist of seaven persons , or more . as for that speech of our sauiour , where he speaks of or gathered together in his name , mat. . . he doth not thereby acknowledge such a small number to be a church ; but fetcheth an argument from thence as from the lesser or lesse probable , to prove the firm and inviolable authority of the church ▪ and her censures , of which he had spoken before v. . as if he should say , if two agreeing together upon earth shal be heard in whatsoever they shall aske , and if i be present with two or three gathered in my name , then much more shall the whole church , who is a greater number , and a more solemne assembly be heard in their prayers , and have christs presence in the midst of them , to bind and loose in heaven what they shall bind or loose in earth . but the former is true , vers. . ▪ therefore the latter is true also vers . . and for excommunication , ordination and censures , there is nothing in scripture nor proved in this discourse of yours , that these matters belong onely to a synod , and not to a particular congreation ; yea wee conceive it will not bee easie for any man whatsoever to prove , that synods , and they onely have power to ordain officers , and to excommunicate offenders ; and till this be proved , the independants ( as you call them ) need not to relinquish their judgement and practice in these particulars . sure it is , that synod in acts . did neither meddle with ordination nor excommunication , but onely determined the controversie about circumcision , and gave rules for practice to be observed of the beleeving gentiles , for avoiding of offence among the jewes . we acknowledge that where there is no consociation or neighbourhood of congregations or single churches whereby they may with conveniency be aiding to each other — and whereto the particulars may have recourse — there a single congregation must not be denied entirenesse of jurisdiction . if you acknowledge thus much , ( which yet is no more then truth requires to be acknowledged , and wherin we for our parts , fully concurre with you ) then we suppose a man may improve this grant of yours to a confirmation of that independencie of churches which you plead against and to a disproving of a good part of that authority of synods which you would establish . for if a church that hath no neighbourhood of other churches ; have power of jurisdiction entirely within it selfe ( as here you doe acknowledge ) then first let it be considered whence such a church hath such power , and see if that ground will not reach to prove the like power in other churches also . now we suppose none will deny , but such a church hath this authority or power by the gift of christ , and the liberty which he hath granted to every church as it is a church , which we had rather expresse in doctor ames his words , then in our own . the power it selfe ( namely , in reproving scandals , and purging out the wicked ) of right , or in respect of the first act , cannot be separated from a true church : because it flows immediately and necessarily from its very essence ; for it is contained in that covenant , whereby beleevers are gathered into a church . cas. cons. lib. . cap. . q. . now if this be so , that power of jurisdiction doth immediately and necessarily flow from the very essence of a church , and so belongs to a church , as it is a church , then it will follow that this power must not be granted to be in such a church as hath no neighbour churches , and be denied unto one that hath : because a church that hath neighbours is a church , and hath the essence of a church , as truly as that which hath none . power of jurisdiction flowing immediately from the essence of a church belongs indifferently to all churches , to one as much as to another , without respect of what neighbours they have , whether many , or few , whether any or none . secondly , let it be considered also what is the end and use of the consociation and neighbourhood of churches , and the same truth will thence appeare also ; which neighbourhood where it is affoorded is from the benefit of churches , but not for their hindrance and losse ; and therefore it may be helpfull by casting in more light , but cannot abridge them of any power which they had before . when doctor ames ( medul . theol. l. . c. . sect. . ) had said that the combination of churches into classes and synods , doth neither constitute a new forme of the church , nor ought by any means to take away or impaire that libertie and power , which christ hath left unto his churches , sith it serveth onely for the directing and furthering of the same , what saith mr. paget hereunto ? this , saith he , we willingly grant ( paget . defence . pa. . ) now if this must be granted , then that dependencie of churches , and that power of synods which you plead for must not be granted ; for let a church have entirenesse of jurisdiction before she have any neighbouring churches , and be deprived of the power when god sends such neighbours , and by this meanes she sustaines losse by having neighbours , and comes to be in this respect in worse condition , then when she had none ; which is against the true intent and use of the consociation of churches . moreover , if this grant of yours stand good , then what shall become of that which is intimated , pag. . and pa. . as a reason against the independency of congregations ? where , you say , that it is against the very light of nature , that the adverse party be the sole judge , and party too in the cause ; and that it is against all equity that the offended party ( meaning the congregation ) should be the sole and finall judge of the offence ? sure we cannot think that there can be such a case imagined wherein you would grant it lawfull for a single congregation to do that which is against all equity and the very light of nature . and yet you grant that the case may be such that a single congregation may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within it self ; which seems to us plainly to prove , that for a congregation to be so independent , as to be the finall judge of offences within it self , is not against all equity , nor against the light of nature , as is intimated by you in the pages afore-mentioned . but sith in one place you grant that in some case a congregation may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within it self , and in another place do seem to imply that it is against all equity , and the light of nature , that they should be granted , we for our parts are not able to discern how these things do stand together . but that too much may not be made of the grant of yours , you do qualifie it in your subsequent words ; wherein you say , that this is a case extraordinarie , and falls not within the compasse of the question , which is about the ordinarie rule of church-government ; whereunto we answer two things . that for a christian congregation to want neighbour congregations , to whom they may with convenience have recourse , is not so unusuall , as some may imagine : specially if the state of things , in times and places of generall persecution , of generall prophanenesse , and of new plantations in heathen countreys be considered . for at those times , and in those places , it is well , if there be any such congregations at all to be found ( as there was one in london , in the dayes of queen mary ) but it is not like there should be so many of them , that any one may have many neighbour ones , to have recourse unto . and your self do intimate in page of your book , that in the remoter part of wales , and of the north , such congregations even at this day , would be so rare , that in all probability , scarce one could be made up in twentie or thirty miles compasse . suppose the case were extraordinarie and rare , would you say that therefore they may violate the ordinarie rules appointed by christ for church administrations , and now lawfully exercise jurisdiction entirely within themselves , which if they had neighbours were unlawfull for them to do ? we suppose it is good to take heed how farre we yeeld it lawfull in such extraordinarie cases , to transgresse and violate ordinarie rules ; left some body do thereupon inferre that though according to ordinarie rules baptisme and the lords supper must be dispensed onely by men , and by ministers , yet in the want of these , the one may be dispensed by a woman , ( suppose the midwife or some other ) and both of them by such as are no ministers . for as you excuse the lawfulnesse of entirenesse of jurisdiction in a single congregation , even so may they excuse these dispensations here mentioned , by saying that the case is extraordinarie , and fals not within the compasse of the question , which is , what persons by ordinarie rule may dispense sacraments ; wherefore for ought we yet see it is more safe to hold , that sith the dispensation of baptisme and the lords supper , by ordinarie rules belongs onely to ministers , therefore there can be no such extraordinarie case , in these dayes , wherein the dispensing of them may lawfully be performed by others whether women or men : and sith entirenesse of jurisdiction must not be denied to a congregation that wants neighbours , therefore the thing is agreeable unto ordinary rules ; and so may be allowed in other cases also . because the administration of sacraments , fore-mentioned , is not allowable by ordinarie rules , therefore the extraordinarinesse of the case will not make it lawfull ; and because the independent jurisdiction of a congregation is lawfull in the case afore-mentioned , which you call extraordinarie ; therefore the same is allowable by ordinarie rule . there ought to be synods or assemblies — with larger power of the keyes to make decrees , ordain pastors , excommunicate members , or congregations , pag. . answ. that there ought to be synods when occasion requires , we freely grant ; but the question is not about their being , but about their power ; wherein , that they have power to ordain and excommunicate any , we do not yet see it proved . but that they should excommunicate whole congregations , as here is affirmed , seemeth to us to be altogether impossible ; for a congregation being a church , it hath communion within it self , out of which it cannot be cast , no more then cast out it self . ames . cas. consc. lib. . cap. . & . yet so as in every single congregation , there be left a power , of publick reprehension , and if need be , of suspension of its own members from the lords table ; and in case upon such appeal to the synod , there appear no difficulty in the matter , or partialitie in the carriage of it , it is ( if between members of one congregation ) rather to be remitted to the congregation it self , to be there censured and ended . pa. . & . this is not much lesse , then a clear granting of the whole cause , for here is expresly left to the congregation not onely power of publick reprehension , but also power of suspension from the lords table , yea , and in some case power of censuring and ending matters within themselves , having first consulted and advised with the synod : which course in matters of difficulty and weight , we for our parts acknowledge very meet to be taken when synods can be had , and when they cannot , yet in such cases of weight , it is fit to consult with neighbour churches . church government ministeriall independents say is equally and fully in every congregation . pa. . answ. that it is equally in one , as much as in another , your self do often grant , though not equally in one as much as in all : and for fulnesse , when a church is furnished with a presbytery within it self , by whom the church should be governed , then we know no reason , but yours may be owned also . above and besides which ( namely , the single congregation ) there is no ministerially governing church , by any means they say to be admitted . pag. . answ. if the presbytery of a congregation may be called a church , then sith they do admit the governing power of the presbyterie , they do admit a governing church , beside the congregation , if by congregation you mean the whole multitude of the members ; and if a synod may be called a church , and if power by disputation and disquisition to clear up the rule , and then to command obedience thereto , may be called government , then they also admit a synod to be a governing church : for the power here mentioned they do allow unto synods . but it seems to us that the power is not properly a power and exercise of government and jurisdiction , but a power of doctrine , and so a synod is rather a teaching then a governing church . but that any other church , be it synod , or any other besides the congregation and its presbyterie , should have such a governing power above the congregation and the presbyterie thereof , as that neither the congregation nor its presbyterie may ordain their own officers , nor excommunicate their own offendors , but both must be done by that other governing church ; this we do not admit indeed , because hitherto , we have seen no convincing proofs for the same . all and every member hath ( say they ) a governing power , as of ordaining their pastors and officers , so of deposing and excommunicating — . pa. . governing properly so called , we acknowledge not in any , but in the elders alone . cor. . . rom. . . hebr. . . if that word be ascribed to the people , it must be understood in a more improper sence , for that which in propriety of speech were more fitly called liberty or priviledge . and yet the liberty when it is exercised about ordination , deposition , excommunication , is of the whole body communiter , or in generall , but not of all and everie member in particular , as you conceive us to hold ; for women and children are members , and yet are not to act in such matters , the one being debarred by their sex , and the other for want of understanding and discretion . we acknowledge that pastors and other officers were anciently , and it is to be wished , thoy still were chosen ( at least consented to ) by the members of each respective congregation . p. . by [ anciently ] we suppose you mean , in the primitive , and apostolick times ; and if in these times they were chosen by the congregation , what warrant can there be to take another course in these dayes ; sith the ancient pattern of scripture in matters of this nature is a commandment that ought to be kept till the appearing of jesus christ . tim. . , . &c. but they are to be ordoined in a synod onely — . that a synod hath the power , we would gladly see it proved by the word . but if these things may be done by a synod onely and not elsewhere , then how will that stand which you granted in the page afore , that in some case a single congregation may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within it self ? to be done by a synod onely , and to be done by a single congregation entirely within it self , are not easie for us to reconcile . further , if synods consist , as you say , of presbyteries and other commissioners , then there must be presbyters afore there can be synods ; and thence it must follow that all presbyters are not ordained by synods , but some by other men . if it be said though the presbyters , whereof the particular synod consisteth , were not ordained by the synod , but were presbyters before this synod had any being , yet they might be ordained by a former synod ; the answer is that this doth not remove the difficultie . for still it would be enquired how the presbyters of that former synod , and so of the first synod that ever was , how they came to be presbyters : sure if the first synod consisted of presbyters , then there were presbyters before there was any synod , and so presbyters have been lawfully ordained , and not by a synod . in a synod where all the ultimate power of decrees and censures resides — . answ. by power of decrees , we understand power to clear up the truth dogmatically , for the word translated decrees is dogmata in the originall , act. . . and this power we confesse is in a synod , though not all in the synod alone , but also in the presbyterie of a single congregation . but for power of censures , this we do not see to be in the synod at all ; much lesse , that it doth all reside in the synod , and not elsewhere . but when you say , all the ultimate power of these things doth reside in a synod ( though you do imply by the word ultimate that matters ought not to be perpetually depending , but in some judicatory or other be brought unto their ultimate or last period , and conclusion , wherein we concurre with you , yet neverthelesse ) your meaning is not sufficiently expressed , what synod this should be that should have this ultimate power . for you know there are divers sorts of synods , some particular which are called classes , some provinciall , some nationall , and some generall , or oecumenicall synods ; and we should be glad to know , which of all these it is in whom the ultimate power of these things doth reside , and why it may not reside in any of the rest ; yea and why the ultimate power of censures may not reside in the congregation , as well as in any of them . whether it be necessarie to the well being of a single church or congregation , that where it stands in neighbourhood with other churches , it be equally and mutually coordinated with the rest , in a dependance on the ministeriall government of a synod ? this they deny , and we affirm . pa. . ans. by ministeriall government of a synod ; you meane , a governing power of ordaining pastors for congregations , and of excommunicating offendors ; for so you describe the power of synods , pag. . and pag. . where you say that pastors are to be ordained , deposed , excommunicated by a synod onely ; and that synods have a larger power of the keyes to make decrees , ordain pastors , and excommunicate members , or congregations ; so that the question is : whether it be necessarie to the well-being of a single congregation that hath neighbours , so to depend , on the government of synods , as that a synod onely and not the congregation , must ordain their pastors , and excommunicate offendors : which being the state of the question , we are content to joyn issue with you , upon the same ; and to hear your arguments for the affirmative part . chap. ii. containing an answer to your first argument taken from the manner of government , in the jewish church , laid down . deut. . , , . chron. . . , . psal. . , . that the government of the jewish church was by gods institution nationall , and dependent , as it clearly appears by the above mentioned texts , so it is fully confessed by mr. aynsworth , mr. davenport , mr. canne , mr. robinson , and generally all judgements . pag. . answ. in some of the places of these authors which you direct us unto in your margent , which we have looked upon , we can find no such confession as here you do report of them . it may be the pages are mis-printed . but what they do confesse or not confesse , we will not stand long to enquire , such of them as are yet alive , may answer for themselves , if they see cause : but it shall suffice us , to consider the weight of the argument it self , which we suppose being put into form must run thus , or to the like purpose . as the congregations in israel were dependent , so must congregations be in these dayes . but congregations in israel were dependent on the ministeriall government of a synod : therefore congregations in these dayes must be dependent on the ministeriall government of a synod . indeed in your prosecution of the argument , you do not expresly mention any ministeriall government of a synod in israel , upon which their congregations did depend : yet we conceive that must needs be your meaning ; because otherwise the argument which you bring , doth not reach to conclude the thing in question , even as the question is stated by your selfe . for in the words immediatly preceding this first argument , you thus summe up and conclude your stating the question , viz. whether it be necessary — that a single congregation , where it stands in neighbourhood with other churches , should be co-ordinated with the rest in a dependency on the ministeriall government of a synod . and having answered affirmatively , you then bring in this for your first argument , taken from the manner of government in the jewish church , laid down in the texts above mentioned . now if that be the question , as you lay it down , and this the argument for the affirmative part , then sith the question is about dependance on the government of a synod , the argument must needs be of the same , or else nothing in question is concluded . and if the argument must conclude the question , then it must be laid down to the like purpose as we have done ; and being so formed , our answer is by denying both parts thereof . for neither is it clear from those texts , that the congregations in israel did depend on the ministeriall government of a synod ; nor will it follow that ours must be dependant as theirs were . touching the former of these , ( to speak first of the minor proposition ) suppose it were true that the congregations in israel did depend upon the government of the judicatories or assemblies mentioned in those texts , yet that doth not prove they depended upon a synod : and the reason is , because the judicatories there mentioned , were not any synods at all , but assemblies of another nature . for first , synods ( as your selves describe them pag , . ) are assemblies , consisting of the severall pastors , whom together with such other members as should be thought fit , the several congregations are respectively to chuse & send therto . but those judicatories in deut. . and the other scriptures , did not consist of any pastors or members , whom the severall congregations did chuse , and send thereto ; but of the priests and levites , of the judges and chiefe of the fathers of israel , which were constantly resident at jerusalem , the place which the lord had chosen . and the severall congregations had nothing to do either to chuse them , or send them . secondly , these jndicatories at jerusalem were standing courts , and were constantly to continue , and therefore they were not synods ; for synods are not wont to stand and continue , but onely till they have ended the businesse which was the occasion of calling them , and then to be dissolved and ended . thirdly , mr. page ( out of whom it seems this argument , and much of the discourse about it , is taken ) doth confesse , pag. . that the authority of classes and synods , is not civill , neither have they power to inflict civill pnnishments , they onely judge of ecclesiasticall causes , and that in ecclesiasticall manner , using no other then spirituall censures , in pag. . of his defence . but the judicatories in these texts ( as mr. paget also confesseth pag. . . ) were for civill causes as well as ecclesiasticall ; and so it is said , deut. . . that by the word of the priests and levites every controversie and every stroke mast be tried even in civill causes , as that of trying out an uncertain murther , which is the cause spoken of in that place . by all which it plainly appeares , that those superior judicatories in israel were not synods ; and then suppose their congregations did depend upou those judicatories , and that ours must depend as theirs did , yet it will not follow that ours must depend upon synods . and thus your minor failing , this might be enough to take away the whole strength of your argument . neverthelesse , for further answer , we may also deny the consequence of your major proposition : for though it were yeelded , that the congregations in israel did depend upon a superiour judicatory , it will not follow that it must be so in these dayes : and our reason is , because the particular congregations in israel ( viz. their synagogues ) were not compleat churches , as the congregations in the new testament are . that they were not entire and compleat churches , may appear by this , because the people could not lawfully in them have the use of the most solemne ordinances of god , and par●s of his worship , though such as were of ordinary and continuall use , but they must goe upto jerusalem for the performing and enjoyment thereof ; and therefore they wete strightly commanded , as not to keep the passover , so not to offer any offerings or sacrifices ( which yet were of very frequent use ) in any place within any of their gates , but onely in jerusalem , the place which god did chuse to put his name there , as we read at large deut. . and . , . neither was it lawfull for the chiefe ministers of the church to execute the chiefe parts of their office in those synagogues , but only at jerusalem . but now with congregations in these dayes it is farre otherwise ; there is none of the solemne ordinances of god , which are of ordinarie and continuall use , but in these congregations , they may be enjoyed , nor any ordinarie duties of the ministery , but in them they may be performed , as preaching , prayer , sacraments , discipline , &c. which shews they are entire churches within themselves . dr. ames hath the saying . the synagogues were not compleat churches , because the whole worship of god , and all the sacred communion prescribed at that time , could not be exercised in them . med. theol. lib. . ca. . thes. . and again , there is nothing read in all the new testament , of the institution of any greater church , on which the lesser should depend : nor any worship or sacred ordinance prescribed , which is not to be observed in every congregation : nor any ordinary minister appointed who is not given to some one assembly of this kind . lib. . cap. . thes. . now if their congregations could not enjoy all the ordinances , as not being compleat churches , there might be reason why they should be dependent upon jerusalem , and the synedrion and temple there , where the ordinances might be enjoyed ; and yet ours being compleat , and enjoying al the ordinances within themselves need not to be so dependent . and another reason why their congregations might be dependent , and ours not so , may be this . they had a superiour judicatory to appeal unto which had the supremum of church power within it self , and from whose sentence there was no appeal to any further judge upon earth ; for so it is said of that synedrion at jerusalem . deut. . and reason requires that some such supream judicatory there should be ; for controversies & cases of doubt must not be drawn out in infinitum , but of necessity standum est in aliquo supremo , we must rest in some supreame , and proceed no further . but now in the new testament , if we once depart from a particular congregation or church , where or when shall we find such a supremum ? surely not before we come to an oecumenicall or generall councell : for as for classicall , provinciall , and nationall synods there is none of these , but those cases which you put of deficiency , and possibility of partiality may befall the best of them ▪ and therefore if for these causes the single congregations , must not be independent , but there must be appeals from them , the synods being subject to the like , there must be liberty of appeals from them also . for like as you do alledge that congregations may be partiall , and erre , so we suppose it will not be denied but the classis may erre , the provinciall synod may erre , the nationall may erre : and therefore by this reason entirenesse of jurisdiction must be granted to none of these . and then whither shall we go but to a generall councill , which as it hath not been seen for many by past generations , so god knows whether ever there shall be any so long as this world shall endure . but how if the generall councill do erre also ? sure learned doctor reynolds doth abundantly clear it , that such a thing is not impossible . thes. . sect. . and so by this reason entirenesse of jurisdiction must not be granted to generall councils , but there must be liberty of appeals from them also . such consequences do inevitably follow upon that which you suggest as a ground of appealing from particular congregations . and by all this it appeareth , that particular congregations , have no such superiour judicatory above them , but according to your grounds , there may be liberty of appeals from the same ; and thence it followeth that there is not the like reason , against their independency , as against the independency of the synagogues in israel : because those synagogues had a judicatorie above them , from which there was no appeal . those may be dependent which have others above them , which are supreame ; whereas they which have no such above them may be supreame themselves , and consequently be independent . obj. if any shall here ask whether we think it not possible for particular congregations to erre in their judgement of causes ? we answer , that we confesse they may ; but in our judgement that needs not to hinder , but they may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within themselves , and not be under the power of any other . for that supreame synedrion at jerusalem did many times erre , and gave corrupt judgement in causes , and yet was not under the power of any other judicatory . when we are enquiring in what judicatory , the supremum of church-power doth lye , it is not our best course to look for such an one as cannot erre : for such an one we shall never find , but to look out where god hath appointed it to lie , and therewith to rest contented : now in the old testament this supremum by gods appointment , was in that synedrion at jerusalem . but in the new testament we know of no appointment of god , that the like supremum must be in a synod ; but for ought we know a particular congregation may be answerable to that synedrion , as well as any classis or synod ; and so much the rather , because the power in a particular congregation , is constant , and alwayes ready to be had , as it was in that synedrion ; whereas classes and synods are more seldome and rare , and cannot be gathered so often as there may be need of the use of church power , in regard of ordaining of officers , or censuring of offenders , and the like . therefore briefly to wind up all , sith congregations in the new testament , are compleat churches , which the jewish synagogues were not ; and sith the synagogues had a supreame judicatory above them , from which there was no appeale , which our congregations have not : therefore we conclude , that the dependencie of the synagogues upon that superiour judicatory , doth not prove that our congregations must depend upon the government of a synod , especially this being considered withall , that the judicatory upon which the synagogues did depend , was not any synod , but an assembly of another nature : and though the supremacie must be some where , even where god hath appointed it to be , yet the particular congregations may shew as much for that appointment , as the synod . and this shall suffice for answer to this first argument : onely we will adde some observations upon some few passages in that which you write for removall of three exceptions which you say are given by some against this argument of yours . . that that government was ccremoniall and typicall . . that papists alledge it against us for their hierarchy and appeales to — the pope . . that the priests and levites were then judges in civill causes , wherin it was that the government was then appealative and dependent , pag. . if any doe make such exceptions , we leave it to them that make them , to undertake the defence of them , or to cleare them as they shall see cause . but for us , the answer we have given to the argument , is that wherein we do rest . that there ought to be one high-priest , in whom all appeales and judgements were to determine . pag. . though there was to be one high-priest among the jewes , yet that all appeals and judgements were to determine in him , we suppose is more then can be proved . sure mr. paget pag. , . ( whom you seem in your discourse much to follow ) doth say , that the judgement spoken of , deut. . was not given by the high-priest alone , but by a colledge or senate of priests , noted in the text , and approveth the judgement of doctor reynolds and doctor whitaker , giving this answer as a just refutation of the papists , arguing from this text to prove there should bee one supreme judge of ecclesiasticall causes . that there ought to be graduall judicatories wherein the aggrieved party may appeale from the lesser to the higher — there can be no ceremony or type in this — this was taught by the light of nature to jethro — appeals ( saith doctor whitaker ) are of divine and naturall right . pag. . if this bee meant in civill causes , where more is left to the light of nature and civill prudence , according to the general rules of the word , the word not determining all particulars so fully , as it doth in ecclesiasticall matters ; then we for our parts doe fully consent thereto . and though it were extended to ecclesiasticall causes also , yet this we suppose is cleare likewise by the same light of nature , that both for civill causes and ecclesiasticall , there must be some finall and supreame judgement , that controversies may not by appeales after appeals be spun out in infinitum . now unlesse it be determined where that supremacie doth lie ( which is the very thing in question ) the usefulnesse and necessity of appeals may be granted , and yet we shall be still at uncertainty about the thing in question , and as much to seek as before . that there ought to be appeals till you come to the highest , is one thing , and that a synod ( and not a particular congregation ) is the highest , is another ; and they are so farre different , that though the first were granted , yet the latter is not thereby proved . that renowned martyr cranmer , the forme of his appeale to a councell , three times by him urged — we have recorded by mr fox at large pag. . but how this example doth suit the present question , we doe not understand : for his appeal was not from a particular congregation , but from the pope ; nor was it to a synod , but to the next generall councell , which from that day to this , hath not yet assembled , nor been called . if we must hold a necessity of appeales to such a judicatory as cranmer appealed unto , then the supremacie of synods , provinciall or nationall , is utterly taken away . generally all that write against appeals to the pope , acknowledge yet their necessary usefulnesse to a synod ; so did that reverend martyr cranmer , — so ( besides the whole stream of antiquity ) ursin , zepperus , and to come neerer , cartwright , fenner , nay barrow , ainsworth , johnson , pag. . we doubt it is a speech a good deale too large , to say , that all these doe acknowledge the necessary usefulnesse of appeales to a synod , especially if ▪ you mean of such appeales as you must needs mean , or else you speak not to the question in hand ; viz. of appeals from a particular congregation . we have looked upon some of the places , and doe perswade our selves that if you doe look upon them also , you will finde this speech of yours to be too excessive . as for mr. paget , who ( pag. . . ) alledgeth all these very places that you doe alledge , he doth not say that those authours doe all acknowledge such necessary usefulnesse of appeals to a synod , as you doe report them to acknowledge ; nor doth alledge them for that end , but for another purpose , viz. to shew , that in these dayes we may alledge and argue from texts out of the law of moses , and other places of the old testament , which if it be rightly done , we for our parts see no reason to disallow . but that all these authors , even barrow and ainsworth doe acknowledge the necessary usefulnesse of appeales from particular congregations to the government of synods , is so large an expression , as wee know not upon what grounds to think it credible ; sith it is well knowne to them that have read their writings , that they acknowledge no ecclesiasticall judicatory superiour to that of a particular congregation . if the benefit of appeals and consociation of churches , to their mutuall help in government , should not be as free to us as to the jewes , how much more defective and improvident were the gospel , then the law ? pag. . consociation of churches for mutuall help , we willingly acknowledge , so that this consociation may neither constitute a new form of a church , nor take away or impair the liberty and power which christ hath given to churches ; but serve onely according to the true use thereof , for the directing and guiding of the same : which proviso ( as we said before ) mr. paget doth willingly grant . and for appeals , we do willingly acknowledge any benefit that may come thereby : but for making the gospel more defective then the law ; we conceive if things be well considered , it is not our way , but yours , that will be found justly culpable , in this respect . for first , as the jews had a supreame judicatory for the finall ending of causes , so we hold the same in a particular congregation . whereas according to your opinion and grounds , we know not where or when to find such a judicatory , but there must be appeals upon appeals , from the congregation to the classis , from a classis to a provinciall synod , and from them to a nationall , and from that to an oecumenicall ; and by this means causes may be so protracted , as not to receive any determination for many generations , yea it may be never while this world doth endure . secondly , as with them there was a standing judicatorie alwaies in readinesse for the hearing of causes , so we hold the like in the particular congregation : whereas synods are not alwaies in readinesse , but so seldome , that if they had supreme power to determine , yet causes ma● be long depending , before a synod can be called for the determining of them . thirdly , whereas the supreame judicatorie at jerusalem , being but one in all the world , was verie farre remote from all proselites , that lived in other countreys ( as the eunuch of ethiopia , act. . ) yea farre remote from those jews , that dwelt in the furthest parts of the holy land ; god hath provided better for us in regard that congregations wherein we place the supreame church power being many in number , a christian may have the use of that power with much more conveniencie , then was affoarded to most jews and proselites in those daies ; but as for synods , as they are for time more seldome , then that synedrion , so they are to many persons no lesser remote in place . by all which it doth appear , that the doctrine of the independents ( as you call them ) doth in some things make us equall to the jews , and in other things , doth make our condition more excellent then theirs ; whereas according to your way , that are against independencie , in many things our condition is made more defective then theirs . how were our saviour king of peace and righteousnesse , should he have ordained now under the gospel , such a government as — were neither righteous nor peaceable ? pa. . that our blessed saviour is king of righteousnesse and peace , and the church government which he hath ordained both righteous and peaceable , is such a certain and divine truth , that it were blasphemous wickednesse to doubt of it ; but when the question is , what government christ hath ordained , it is better arguing to say , this government the scripture doth witnesse to be ordained of christ , and therefore it is righteous and peaceable , then to say , this government is not righteous nor peaceable , and therefore not ordained of christ . we meane plainly thus , that it is more agreeable to religious sobrietie and humilitie , to search out by scripture-grounds , what government christ hath ordained , and when that is once found , then to conclude from thence , the righteousnesse and peaceablenesse of the same ; rather then on the other side , to think with our selves what government to naturall reason seems righteous and peaceable , and thence to gather what is ordained or not ordained of christ , your self have a saying p. . that laws meerly positive are therefore laws because commanded . and why may not we say in like sort , this or that form of church government , is therefore peaceable and righteous , because ordained , sith this or that form is by the positive law of christ . but ( say you ) how can that government be peaceable and righteous , where parties are made sole judges ? suppose the greater number of members in a congregation be against the pastor and elders . pag. . answ. it is not unrighteous nor unpeaceable in it self that they should be judges , whom the god of all righteousnesse and peace hath appointed so to be . nor is it reasonable , that they should be thrust out of the office , whereto god hath appointed them , under this pretence , that they are parties ; for if good care be not taken how farre we give way to such alledgements , we may lay a foundation for weakning , if not utterly evacuating , the authoritie of all supreame judicatories whatsoever . for as you alledge against the congregation , that they may be divided amongst themselves , and then if matters be ended there , parties are made judges , ( viz. the major part against the minor ) so the very same may be said of a synod , where controversies may arise , as well as in a congregation : and if congregations must not determine matters arising within themselves , because parties must not be judges ; then by the same reason matters arising in a synod , must not be determined by a synod ; and so the synod unto whom , you would have matters carried from the congregation , must be no more independent , then the congregation it self , from whom they are carried . yea , by this reason , that supreame synedrion among the jews , must have been dependent also . for it is plain , that sometimes that synedrion was divided into parts among themselves , as in that famous instance , act. . where the division of the councill was the means of paul's escape . finally , there is not any supreme judicatory upon earth , neither civill nor ecclesiasticall , but if they consist of many persons , and be not absolute and meere monarchies consisting of one alone , the members thereof may be divided among themselves , and yet they must be the finall judges to determine matters within themselves , if the matters must be determined at all : so that this which you seeme to reject as an absurditie , that parties should be judges , is in some cases ( and namely when the supreme judicatory is divided into parts about matters arising among themselves ) a matter of unavoidable necessity , and cannot be otherwise . this communion and mutuall assistance in government , — god as by his word , so by the very light of nature , teacheth all societies whatever , whether common-wealths , or armies , vniversities or navies , pag. . answ. either this passage means that all common-wealths , &c. are taught such communion and assistance in government with other common-wealths , &c. as that none of them have entirenesse and supremacie of jurisdiction within themselves , but are dependant on other the like societies for the same ; or else that the members and parts of a common-wealth , &c. are taught such communion and assistance in government , as not to be entire of themselves , but to depend upon the whole society of which they are members and parts . if it be taken in the latter sense , then the thing is most true , but no prejudice to our cause at all , for we grant the same of the parts and members of a congregationall church , &c. but it must be taken in the former sense , if it make any thing against us ; and in this sense it will not hold true : for it is well known , that common-wealths and universities , as the common-wealth of england for example , and the university of oxford , have no such communion and assistance in government , with other common-wealths and other universities , but that they have entirenesse of jurisdiction within themselves ; and the same may be said of armies and navies . the members of all these societies doe depend on the societie of which they are members : but that is nothing against us . if the societies did depend upon other the like societies , this indeed were against us . but this cannot be proved so to be . not that therefore this government of churches should as those end in a monarchy on earth . answ. we suppose it is a clear mistake , to say that the government in all those societies , doth end in a monarchy : for whatever may be said of the rest , common-wealths you know there are sundry , whose government is either democraticall or aristocraticall , and doth not end in any monarchy at all ; witnesse for example the low countreys . but if churches must be dependent upon the government of synods , because the very light of nature teacheth a communion and assistance in government to all societies whatever ; then we see not how it will be avoyded , but by the same reason churches must end in a monarchy upon earth , if it were once proved , that the light of nature doth teach all societies whatever so to end : for there is as good reason for this as for the other . and the old plea for bishops and popes , ut capite constituto schismatis occasio tolleretur , will not be easily avoyded . if we yeeld thus much that what the light of nature teacheth other societies , the same must be observed in the government of churches . you say indeed that this will not follow , because the churches monarch or head is in heaven , and such an one , as though in heaven , yet still present by his word and spirit here on earth too , to all the offices of a monarch . pag. . but this we conceive doth not remove the difficultie , partly , because the objection is for a visible head , and not an invisible ; and partly because the time hath been when there was one high-priest upon earth , in whom you say ( pag. . ) that all appeals and judgements were to determine : and yet at that time the monarch or head of the church was in heaven , and present on earth too by his word and spirit , to all the offices of a monarch , as truly then as now . whereby we may see , that if you will goe by the light of nature , it is not the presence of christ in heaven , and his spirituall and invisible presence with his church on earth , that will take away the necessity of a visible head upon earth . a surer answer to this plea , is to flye to the institution and appointment of god , whose wisedome and will it was to appoint one high priest upon earth in former times , but hath not done the like in these dayes . chap. iii. containing an answer to the second argument taken from matth . tell the church . that this is spoken by our saviour in reference to the jewish church-government , — is the joynt judgement of ambrose , theodoret , — among the ancient : melanchton , strigetius , peretius , aretius , — and even mr. johnson himselfe . — and if so , then our saviour here sufficiently confirmes to us as lawfull , and conveyes to us as usefull so much of the jewish church-government as includes an independencie and liberty of appe des therein . pag. , . answ. by dependencie here spoken of , must be meant dependencie upon the government of a synod ; and by appeal must be meant appeale from a particular congregation unto that synod , or otherwise the argument concludes besides the question : and the words being thus understood , the forme of the argument must be to this purpose , viz. if that which is here spoken by our saviour , be spoken in reference to the jewish church-government , then particular congregations must depend upon the government of synods . but the first is true : therefore the second is true also . but for confirmation of this minor proposition , you bring no other proofe but onely the testimonies of a number of authours , all cited before by mr. paget in his defence , pag. , , &c. and for the consequence of your major you bring no proofe at all . neverthelesse we are willing to consider what strength there may be in the argument , and to that purpose we must enquire into your meaning in this phrase of reference to the jewish church-government , whereby we conceive you intend one of these two , either that the word church in our saviours rule , tell the church , doth signifie the elders and governours alone , as sometimes the like word is used in the old testament ; or else that no new rule is prescribed hereby our saviour , but the very same that was formerly given to the jews . mr. paget , who also takes his second argument from this place of mat. . doth understand our saviours words in this later sense . but whether way soever you intend , our answer is briefly thus : first , that though we will not now deny the minor proposition , yet this we may say , that it is not so evident of it self , but that it needs some better proof then by you is given for the confirmation of it ; for of it self it is not clear , that by church is meant onely the elders of the church , nor that all the steps of such graduall proceeding as our saviour doth prescribe , were formerly commanded to the jews . and your self professing in your epistle to the gentlemen , prefixed before your book , that you like d. moulins resolution , rather to bring one argument then ten authors , if accordingly you had confirmed this minor proposition with some further proof then onely the names of authors , it could have given better satisfaction . but what ever become of the minor , the consequence of the major may justly be denied . for though it were granted that our saviours words , tell the church , were spoken with reference to the jewish church-government in this sence , that this graduall proceeding in all the steps of it was formerly commanded to the jews , yet this is nothing to prove the necessitie of the dependance of congregations upon the government of synods , ( which is our question ) because there may be such graduall proceedings to the fulfilling of our saviours rule , without any use of a synod at all . if it were not so , synods had need to be more frequent then they are , or ever were , or are ever like to be , for this rule of our saviour is of very frequent use . and though it were granted also , that by church , our saviour meant the elders ( which is the other sense of your words of reference to the jewish church-government ) yet neither would this prove the dependence of congregations upon the government of synods , because there may be and ought to be elders , and an eldership or presbyterie in every particular congregation , and by telling those elders that rule may be observed , if our saviours words were taken in that sence . and indeed it seems your self do so understand them , as appears in pag. . of your book , and likewise in this place now in hand , because one of those authors whom you alledge for the meaning of our saviours words , is mr. johnson , who in his latter times , did so understand them , of whom you say , even mr. johnson himself though a pastor of separatists in a peculiar treatise reduceth himself from his former error in the contrary opinion , to this judgement too . wherby it seems , that for the meaning of this text , you concurre in opinion or judgement with mr. johnson . and if so , then though you may by church understand the elders as he did , yet then you must also acknowledge the independency of particular congregations and the pastors thereof ; for it is certain and plain that mr. johnson was of that opinion and judgement too , notwithstanding that his exposition of matth. . and did never reduce himself to this opinion , that congregations must be dependent upon the government of synods , which is your plea . for which purpose you may consider what is to be seen in his christian plea , which was one of the last books that ever he wrote . now in pag. , . of that book are these words , viz. seeing now every particular constituted church hath right and power within it self to celebrate the lords supper , which is answerable to the passeover that was kept at jerusalem , this sheweth that now every particular church is to be esteemed as jerusalem , and so to stand immediately under jesus christ the arch-pastor of his sheep , and high priest of our profession . and again , all particular churches with their pastors do stand immediately under jesus christ the arch-pastor without any strange ecclesiasticall power and authoritie interposed between , whether it be of the prelates , or of their unlawfull usurping synods , or any such like — . and in the words following , speaking how all churches , and the ministers of them , should be readie and willing to help and advise one another , he addeth thus : viz. and so to this end , and in this manner , may be had a lawfull and profitable use of synods , classes , &c. for mutuall help and advise , so as alwaies it be provided that they do not challenge or usurp any unlawfull jurisdiction or power over the particular churches , or their pastors and governours . by which words it plainly appeareth , that though mr. johnson by church in matth. . did understand the elders , yet he never held that particular churches , and the elders thereof , should depend upon the government of synods , but be immediately under the government and authoritie of jesus christ , and depend no other way upon synods but onely for their advise and counsell : and therefore his exposition of matth. . will stand you in no stead to prove the dependance of particular churches upon synods . wherefore to wind up our answer to this argument . though it were granted that when our saviour saith , tell the church , he means tell the elders , and though it were granted also that enjoying such a graduall proceeding , he prescribeth no new rule , but the same that had been given before unto the jews , yet neither of these do prove that congregations must depend upon the authoritie of synods ; and the reason is , because both these may be performed in a particular congregation ; for therein a man may proceed by such steps and degrees as our saviour enjoyneth , and may also tell his matter to the elders of that particular church . and so the consequence of your major proposition failing , the whole argument must fail also , though the minor were never so strongly proved : and how much more when the minor is left so weak , neither of these particulars being sufficiently cleared and made good by you , that by church is meant the elders , nor that all that our saviour in that place prescribeth , was before commanded to the jews . but inasmuch as your words are , that this of matth. . is spoken by our saviour christ in reference to the jewish church-government before urged , therefore we may give a further answer to this argument , out of that which before hath been answered when the argument from the jewish church-government was urged . for though it were granted that christ speaks in reference to that government , yea though it were granted ( which we suppose none will affirm ) that all that was used among the jews is here prescribed by christ , yet all this were too short to prove that our congregations must depend upon the government of synods , unlesse it could be proved that the jewish congregations did so depend , which we have formerly shewed to be otherwise , the great synedrion at jerusalem upon which their lesser congregations did depend , if they were dependent at all , being not any synod , but an assembly of another nature . but you will improve this text further ; and therefore after some speech of an indefinite proposition in logick , and an indefinite command in divinitie , and of five graduall iffs in our saviours words , if he shall offend , &c. you come thus to argue , viz. the remedie of complaint or appeal must be as large as the malady offence , otherwise christs salve were not equall to the sore : but offences may arise as well between divers congregations in the same church , as between divers members in the same congregation , and therefore particular congregations as well as members have hereby liberty to complain and appeal to a more generall judgement for redresse . and a little after : that such offences may arise between churches as well as members , appears by that between the graecians and hebrews about the neglect of their widows , act. . . and that in such cases they may complain and implead each other , appears by that of the prophet hosea . . even the daughter church with the mother . pag. . to all which we thus answer . first , though we deny not but offences may arise betweene churches as well as members , yet we do not see that those instances alledged by you from act. . and hos. . do sufficiently prove the same ; because those graecians and hebrews , act. . might be all of one and the same church and congregation which was at jerusalem , and not two congregations or churches , the graecians one and the hebrews another , as it seems you do conceive of them . for when the apostles upon occasion of this murmuring of the graecians for the neglect of their widows , did take course for the appointing of deacons for the remedying thereof , the whole managing of the businesse was transacted and done in one congregation alone ; for so it is said , they called the multitude of disciples together , vers. . they appointed them to look out seven men duely qualified whom they might appoint over that businesse , v. . and the saying pleased the whole multitude , who thereupon did chuse seven whom they presented unto the apostles , ver. , . and the apostles imposed hands on them , ver. . in all this there is no hint of two congregations , one of graecians and another of hebrews , but the text seemeth plain enough , that the whole multitude of disciples whether graecians or hebrews were all gathered together into one congregation about the choice and ordaining of these deacons . and as for hos. . . plead with your mother , plead , sith there is no mention in that scripture of any daughter church , nor of any two churches at all ; and sith at that time there was only one church upon the face of the earth , even the nationall church of the jewes , therefore we cannot see how this text can be any proofe of churches complaining and impleading one another . if any man think otherwise , and that the daughter-churches did plead against the mother-church of israel that is here spoken of , then we would demand what or where was that superiour judicatory , be it synod or any other , before which they did plead , and before whom the mother-church of israel must answer for herselfe , when the daughter-churches did complain against her . we suppose none will affirme there was any such : and therefore this text can be no ground for churches impleading one another . but the true meaning of the place is thus much , not that one church must plead against another , but that the godly members of the church of israel must plead against the corruptions of that very church , though in respect of them she were as a mother , and they as children . and before whom must they plead ? not before any other judge upon earth , but before the lord of heaven , and unto her own face , laying open her abominations , and shewing unto her , her sins : and we acknowledge the members of any other church may doe the like , if there be the like occasion , so that they keep themselves within the bounds of sobriety , and their owne calling . but if it were granted ( though these allegations doe not prove it ) that offences may arise between congregations , how doth this prove the thing in question , viz. that congregations must depend upon the government of synods ? yes , say you ; because the remedy must be as large as the malady ; and otherwise christs salve were not equall to the sore . but if this reason be sufficient against the independency of churches ; then by the like reason a man may prove , that the church of a nation must not be independent neither : for as you alledge , that offences may arise as well between divers congregations , as between divers members in the same congregation ; so a man may alledge , that offences may arise between divers nationall churches . and as you demand , what if a brother offend not a particular brother , but the whole congregation ? what if ten brethren offend the whole , or part ; shall we think the offence falls not within our saviours remedy ? so in like sort a man may demand , what if the congregation offend not a particular congregation , but the whole church of a nation ? what if ten , twenty , fourty congregations , offend the whole nation , or part ? yea , we may adde , what if the nationall church offend the church of another nation ? would you now say , that all these offences must fal within our saviours rule of telling the church ; and that this were a sufficient reason against the independencie of nationall churches and nationall synods ? we suppose you would not say so : and yet we doe not see how it can be avoided by your reason and ground , sith that ground is appliable to the one case as well as to the other . if the reason doe overthrow the independencie of particular congregations , then of a nationall church also . if not of a nationall church , then how doth it make any more against the other ? of necessity for ought wee can discern , you must owne the reason as strong in both cases , or else refuse it as weak in both . yea , and further , by the like reason a man might prove that indians and turkes must be complained of unto the church , and that the offences of them , or of other heathen , must fall within the compasse of our saviours remedy . for as offences may arise between members and members , between churches and churches : so it is apparent that offences may arise between christians and pagans ; and if this ground that you lay be sound , that the remedy complaint , or oppeale must be as large as the malady offence : and consequently there must be a church above congregations ; then if an indian or other pagan shall commit an offence , the remedy must be to complain of the indian to the church . and sith ( as you say , pag. . ) there must be power of judgement to redresse there where the complaint is to be made ; would it not thence follow , that there must be power of judgement in the church to redresse the offences of indians ? which were directly contrary to the plain words of the apostle , cor. . . what have i to doe to judge them that are without ? but this inconvenience of the churches judging them that are without , doth unavoidably follow upon this which you lay as a ground against the independencie of congregations , viz. that where an offence may be committed , there christs rule , tell the church , may be applied for redresse thereof . but what shall we say then ? if indians and other heathens , if congregationall and nationall churches of christians , be not under the power of that rule of christ , shall we say then there is no salve for all their sores , but so many sinners must be left lawlesse , and their offences remedilesse ? god forbid ! the lord hath provided good store of help for all these : but every salve is not for every sore . such persons as are in the church , all they are subject to the discipline of the church , and to the power of christ administred therein , so that if need so require , they may be excommunicated and cast out . whole churches are subject to the wholsome advice and counsell of other churches ; and so farre as the same shall be according to god , they ought to hearken thereunto : and if they doe not , they may lawfully be renounced by other churches , from all church-communion with them . and as for indians , or others , that are no churches , nor members of churches , though our saviours rule of telling the church , was not intended for them , yet both they and christian churches likewise , and the members of them , are all of them to be subject to the magistrates , and the authority of the higher powers , whose duty it is to be keepers of both tables of the law of god , and to do their endeavour that all the subjects may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie . rom. . . tim. . . but , say you , an offence may be so generall as to defile and make guilty a whole land , and why not then the remedie as large as it , tell the church ? pag. . ans. in such case of generall and nationall defilements , the remedie is generall and nationall repentance , whereto all the people must be provoked , and exhorted by the ministers of the word in their severall congregations . and when the higher powers do give example thereof in their own persons , and by some act of their authoritie do call upon all the people for the same , this is a notable remedie , through the mercy of god , against the defilement of nationall sins , and the danger that may come thereby . which as it was the practise of asa , hezekiah , josiah , and the states of judah in their times , so we have cause with all humble thankfulnesse to blesse the lord that put the like care into the hearts of the lords and commons assembled in parliament in our deare native countrey , who by an ordinance of both houses thought it meet to exhort all the subjects of england and wales to the duty of repentance , both for personall and nationall sins . but suppose the magistrate be an enemy to religion , and the land or whole church therein have occasion to make a solemne renewall of their covenant with god , shall not this whole church or number in their collective body have power to enjoyn it ? ans. if the supreame magistrate be an enemie to religion , it is not like but most or many of the people will be of the same mind ; regis ad exemplum totus — as it is at this day in france and spaine , and was in england in the dayes of queen mary , and other popish princes ; and then the beleevers in the land will not be so many as to bear the name of the land or nation , but of a small part thereof , and so at that time it will not be required of them to make any nationall covenant , or to enjoyn the same . nor can it well be conceived how they should assemble in a nationall synod for that or any other purpose , when the magistrate is a professed enemie to their religion . at such times it is more like their meetings in small congregations will be full of danger , rather then that they should have libertie safely and freely to meet in such great assemblies as nationall synods . and though for lack of such a nationall covenant , the remedie be not equall to the offence or need , yet at such time that remedie being not in the power of such beleevers as are in the land , it is not required at their hands . if a whole congregation , great or small , play the foxes , and spoil the vineyard , why may it not be taken and restrained ? pa. . ans. no doubt but it may , but ever in the way , and by the means which christ hath appointed . if those foxes be particular members of the church , they may be restrained by doctrine , by discipline , and by the magistrates authoritie . if they be whole churches , they may be restrained by doctrine , and by the advise and counsell of other churches , and also by the magistrates . but if they be not members of the church , they can not be restrained by church discipline , but onely by the authoritie of the magistrate , and by the preaching of the word . to this argument the independent party reply or rather labour to obtain out of the text three things . first , that our saviour speaks here of a single church or congregation — secondly , to this single church , and to all this church entirely , not distinguishing between elders and members , he gives the keyes of excommunication and absolution — thirdly , over this church to assume a church power of judicature is a lording it over christs heritage — to the first of these exceptions we answer , that it no way appears that our saviour in this place or that , the scripture elsewhere , usually means a single congregation by the word church , but that the contrary rather is easily evincible . first , that he here spake in reference to the jewish church , which way no single congregation hath above sufficiently appeared . pag. . ans. but how in reference ? if you mean in this sence , that what ever was used in that church must be used in the christian , or that as that church was nationall , so christian churches must be the like , then we may say , no such things hath appeared at all , nor hath been so much as undertaken to be proved . if you mean onely thus , that there were such graduall proceedings in that church as christ in this place requireth , or that the word church may signifie the elders or rulers , then we may say neither of these have sufficiently appeared by any proof that you have brought ; and if they were both granted , they are nothing to the matter now in question viz. that the word church doth not signifie one single congregation ; for both these particulars may be found and made use of in such a church as is of no larger extent . next , that he hath reference herein to that of deut. . . appears by his citation of the very words of that text , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established : now there the witnesses and offenders were by way of further appeal to stand before the lord , before the priests for judgement , vers. . pag. . answ. the words are not as you cite them , before the priests for judgement ; but before the priests and judges which shall be in those dayes . and it appeareth by the punishment which these judges must inflict upon the guiltie person there spoken of , life for life , eye for eye , tooth for tooth , &c. v. . that if our saviour refer his church to do like unto that judicatory which you say he hath reference unto , then the church must have power to inflict corporall punishment , even to the taking away of life it self , because that judicatory had such power . lastly , no other place can be shewed , where our saviour used the word church for a single congregation . ans. nor can any other place be shewed where he used the word church for a synod , nor that he ever used the word at all , but onely here , and in matth. . vpon this rock will i build my church : in which place he means a synod no more then a single congregation . but for the scripture language , nothing is more manifest , then as it never anywhere useth the word church for a single congregation , unlesse happily in cor. . — so nothing is more frequent therein then to call many congregations in a province or city , by the name of a church . pag. . ans. we are willing to consider of both these particulars ; and first of the former , wherein you do acknowledge ( though a perhaps , or happily ) that in cor. . the word church is taken for a single congregation : but you may acknowledge it undoubtedly , and without any perhaps at all , because it is said , ver. . of that chapter , that the whole church cometh together in one place . and in other verses of the same chapter he speaks , how he that prophecieth edifieth the church , how interpreting is that the church may receive edifying , how it is a shame for women to speak in the church , ver. , , . yea in ver. , , . he gives them this direction , that when they come together , and every one hath a psalme , a doctrine , &c. that he that speaks in a strange tongue , if there be no interpreter , must keep silence in the church . by all which he plainly sheweth , that the name church is given to the company that did assemble and come together , for performance of spirituall duties , and for the exercise of spirituall gifts . now a company coming together is a congregation , and therefore the name of church is here given to a congregation . but besides this chapter , there are many other places where the word church is also used in the same sence : for instance , take these amongst many : act. . . and . . and . , , . cor. . , , , . joh. . in which places there is mention of assembling with the church , of gathering the church together , of being received by the church , of bearing witnesse before the church , of coming together in the church , of coming together into one place , of gathering the multitude together , and the like . which places do abundantly shew , that a company that are gathered together into one place ( which is nothing else but a congregation ) are called by the name of a church . and the christians of cenchrea which was but a little village , and therefore not like to be many congregations , yet they are stiled by the name of a church . rom. . . and though cenchrea were but the port of corinth , and not farre from it , like radcliffe or lymehouse to london , as some have observed , yet being a congregation of it self , it is a distinct church of it self , as well as corinth was . much more might be said to make it manifest , that a single congregation is called by the name of a church in many places of scripture ; and how then can that stand which is here affirmed by you , that the word is never so used , unlesse happily in cor. . and that nothing is more manifest . but whereas you say , that nothing is more frequent then to call many congregations in a province or citie , by the name of a church ; we may rather say , that this is so far from being so frequent , as nothing more , that on the contrary it is very questionable , whether it be ever so used at all in all the new testament : sure it is more frequent to call many congregations in a province or nation , by the name of churches in the plural number , and not by the name of church in the singular ; which doth strongly imply , that if they be many congregations , then they are not one church , but many . for this purpose it is to be considered , how the scripture mentions not the church , but the churches of galatia , gal. . . cor. . . of macedonia , cor. . . of judea , thess. . . gal. . . of galilee and of samaria , acts . . of syria and cilitia , acts . . and of asia , cor. . . in which one province there were seven famous churches at once , mentioned revel. . . besides others that are mentioned else-where . now as all these instances doe sufficiently shew , that something is more frequent in scripture , then to call many congregations by the name of a church , so it is worth our consideration , what should be the reason of this diffrent speech in scripture , that when it speaks of the christians of one congregation , it should frequently give them the name of a church , as we heard before ; and when it speakes of the christians in a province or countrey , where were many congregations , it should call them so usually by the name of churches in the plurall number . sure it seemes to us to be strongly implyed thereby , that one congregation of christians may be a church ; but if they be many congregations , then they are many churches , and not one onely . but you will give foure instances , where the name of a church is given to many congregations , jerusalem , rome , corinth , and ephesus . and concerning jerusalem , the number of disciples that were there , being , acts . . with . . and . . and afterward abundantly larger , it was impossible all the members should meet but by way of distribution into severall congregations . pag. . answ. how large soever that church was in those places you alledge , yet if the scripture say they did meet together in one place , then we must beleeve it was possible for them so to doe ; and that as they were but one church , so they were but one congregation . now the text is plain , first of all , that when they were but . they all met together in one place ; for otherwise how could peter stand up in the midst of them , and make a speech to them all , about the election of another apostle in the room of iudas , as he is recorded to have done , acts . next of all , when were added to them , acts . yet all that multitude before they were converted , did all come together in one place , vers. . and peter standing up , lift up his voyce and spake unto them all , vers. . and when they were converted , both they and the rest of the beleevers were not yet so many , but the multitude of them were all together , vers. . and continued daily with one accord in the temple , vers. . and when after this , ( the lord adding daily to the church such as should be saved ) the number of the men was about . acts . . yet all this company did stil meet together in one place : for it is said , that when the apostles were dismissed from the councill with threatnings , they went unto their own company and reported what the chiefe priests and elders had said unto them , vers. . and when they heard that , they lifted up their voyce in prayer to god with one accord , vers. . and when they had prayed , the place was shaken where they were assembled together , vers. . by which it is plain , that all this company , whether they were in all . or ( if you will have it so ) . besides the former number , and so in all . yet still they were all assembled in one place . and when after this , beleevers were more added to the lord , multitudes both of men and women , acts . . yet all that time they were all with one accord in salomons porch , vers. . which shewes they were not yet so many , but all did meet together in one congregation . furthermore , when after this , the number of disciples in jerusalem was more multiplied , acts . . yet the apostle called the multitude of them together , to propose unto them the choyce of deacons , vers. . and the matter being commended to them by the apostles , it is said , the saying pleased the whole multitude , and they chose seven who are there named , vers. . which shewes that the whole multitude was not so many , but they might assemble and come together in one place , to heare matters proposed , and to make election of officers . after this indeed , this church at jerusalem were all scattered by persecution , except the apostles , acts . . but when a church was gathered again by the apostles ministery , that church , even all the multitude of them , as well as the apostles and elders , did all assemble and meet together with one accord in one congregation , about the businesse of the controversie that arose at antioch ; so it is plainly said , acts . that paul and barnabas comming from antioch , were received of the church at jerusalem , and of the apostles and elders , vers. . and it pleased the apostles and elders , with the whole church , to send messengers to antioch , vers. . and to that church letters are written from the apostles and elders , and brethren , vers. . being all assembled with one accord , verse . which plainly shewes that the church at jerusalem at this time , did not consist of apostles and elders alone , as a representative church , but of others also , who are expresly distinguished from those officers : and yet all this church did assemble with one accord in one place . lastly , for that place , . where you say ; it is plain , that when the church met collectively , it was in the presbyters and elders . and that in this church at jerusalem the collective meetings were representative in their elders . the answer is , that wee deny not but elders may meet apart from the multitude if there be occasion , and so much may be proved from verse . where it is said , paul went in unto james , and all the elders were present ; but this is nothing to the point in hand , that the church at jerusalem was so numerous , that all the members could not meet in one , but in severall congregations : nay , that very place ( though it speak of many thousand jewes that did beleeve , verse . ) yet as it doth not say , that all these were of that one church at jerusalem ; so there are good divines that doe think they were not : but if they were , it nothing prejudiceth our cause in this matter ; for when james and the elders speaking to paul of the jewes , doe tell him , the multitude must needs come together , for they will heare that thou art come , verse . it appeares thereby , that their multitude was not such , but they might all assemble and come together . if any say , how can these things be , that so many thousands as were members of the church at jerusalem , should all yet be but one congregation , besides what hath been said to shew that thus it was ; such an one may consider further , that many thousands , yea miriads , were gathered together , luke . . and christ spake unto them all , though unto his disciples first , verse , , , . and that parishes in england in or about london , and else-where , as stepney , giles , sepulchres , and others , have many thousand inhabitants in them , all members of one parishionall church , and yet all but one congregation . and that of chrysostome on matth. . who as mr. bayn reports , dioe . triall , pag. . did esteem the company that heard his voice in one congregation , to be about . persons , and that by means of scaffolds and galleries , a man lifting up his voyce , may so speak , as to be heard of thousands at a time . all which being considered , doe make it lesse incredible , that the church at jerusalem , consisting of such a great multitude , yet for all that might bee no more but one ordinarie congregation . next , for the church at rome in the apostles time , stiled every where in that epistle , by the name of church , not churches . pag. . answ. we suppose it is a plain mistake , that the church at rome is every where in that epistle stiled by the name of a church . for ought we remember in that epistle , it is never so stiled at all ; and yet we deny not but it was a church , and one church . but ( say you ) can it be thought that the faith and obedience of a church in such a citie , could be famous throughout all the world , as the apostle speaks , rom. . . & . . and yet but one single independent congregation ? answ. we know nothing to the contrary but it might be so : for the church at thessalonica was but one congregation , and yet from them sounded out the word of the lord , not only in macedonia and achaia , but also in every place , their faith to god-ward was spread abroad , thess. . . and there might be other means to make their faith famous , as well as plurality of congregations ; as the resort and confluence of people of all sorts and nations to the place where this church dwelt , rome being the seat of the empire , and the lady of kingdomes at that time : also the good will of the godly , the malice of the wicked , the newfanglednesse of most , would open the mouthes of many to talke of the faith and profession of the christian romans , though they were no more but one congregation . those very persons and families named in the apostles salutations of that church , even those choycer families were able to fill severall congregations . answ. we dare not say so : for there is not named above . in all . sure if . families fill severall congregations , then those congregations must be very small ones . tertullian tells us , that in his time the citie was at least halfe christian : and cornelius tells us , that besides himselfe , there were in that church . presbyters . answ. but the question being , whether many congregations be frequently called in scripture by the name of a church , these testimonies being not from scripture doe not suit the question , therefore we will not insist upon them , but onely say this much ; that as they are both alledged by doctor downam , and them of the hierarchy that plead for diocesan churches against congregational , so they are both sufficiently answered by mr. bain , in his diocesan triall , p. , . and by the refuter of d. downams sermon at lambeth . p. . next , the church at corinth every where stiled a church , not churches . answ. this we grant : but why might it not be one congregation , as well as one church ; the onely reason you bring to the contrary is , because they had so many instructers , cor. . . and builders , cor. . . so many prophets ( say you ) and teachers , speakers with tongues , — could not questionlesse have their ordinary locall meetings , but by way of distribution into severall congregations . answ. this arguing about the church of corinth , doth not very well agree with that which went before , p. . where you seemed to grant , that though no other place in scripture , yet that place , corinth . . doth give the name of church to one single congregation ; whereas now you give corinth also as one instance where many congregations are called a church . it is strange to us , how corinth should be an example of both these , viz. of the name of church given to one single congregation , as you doe acknowledge , pag. . and of many congregations called by the name of one church , as now you would have it . but the place , . cor. . . that speakes of the whole church commiug together into one place , doth unavoidably prove ( for ought we can discern ) that corinth had their meetings , and not by way of distribution into severall congregations , but altogether in one congregation : and doth also answer your reason drawn from the variety of teachers and prophets in that church : for it is plain from that very chapter , that the church of corinth had many prophets ; let the prophets speake two or three , and let the rest judge , vers. . and many that spake with tongues , who must speake by course two or three ▪ and one interpret , verse . yea every one generally had a psalme , or a doctrine , or a revelation , or an interpretation , verse . as indeed they came behind in no gift , cor. . & yet for all their variety of gifts , and gifted men , prophets , interpreters , speakers with tongues , and the like , both they and the whole church also , even women and all , used to come together into one place . but it is with much instance urged generally by all the separatists , that those among whom the corinthian fornicatou● was — they were all to be gathered together , and all to deliver him to satan ; therefore the power of the keye is alike in all the members , — and not in the elders alone . pag. . answ. this and all that follows for two whole pages may be something pertaining to the second of your three exceptions forementioned ; but nothing concerns the question now in hand . for whether the church of corinth , that must excommunicate the incestuous man , were the elders alone , as you hold ; or all the people also , as others : this is nothing to the present point of the sence of the word church , which is , whether is be taken in scripture , for many congregations or one onely : and therefore we marvell why you would here bring it in . neither indeed is it any thing to the maine question , of the dependencie of congregations upon the government of synods ; for if all were granted , that here is argued for , viz. that the church that must excommunicate the delinquent corinthian was not the common people , but the elders alone , yet the authoritie of synods is not a whit holpen thereby ; unlesse it could be proved that the church of corinth had no elders of their own ; which we are perswaded you will not affirm , because you grant pag. . that they had many instructors , many builders , many leaders , many prophets and teachers . wherefore this dispute being besides the question , we will not spend time in answering of it , because we would hasten to go forward with the rest , that pertains to the question , as you have stated it . your last instance of many congregations , called by the name of church , is ephesus , where you argue , there must needs be many congregations , because there was a great doore , and effectuall opened unto paul , so mightily there grew the word of god and prevailed , the greatnesse of the price of the conjuring books burnt publickly , and god himself testifies , he had many people in that citie . answ. when the lord saith to paul , i have much people in the city , it is a plain mistake to understand this of ephesus , for it was spoken of corinth , and not of ephesus . act. . . but if it had been spoken of ephesus , as we deny not , but that there were many christians there , how doth this prove the point , that they were not one congregation , but many ? we do not think they were more in number , then in corinth and jerusalem , where the christians , as we have shewed , did usually meet in one place ; and therefore at ephesus , they might do the like , though there were a great number of christians there . as for that which you say , that as this church could not possibly ordinarily in all its members meet but distributively ; so that it did meet collectively in its presbytery and eldership ; that which ordained timothy ( there by the apostles own testimony ) appears in the . . and . verses of the . chapter , beyond all exception . we answer thereto , it is not beyond all exception , that at ephesus was one church consisting of many congregations , which is our question . it may be granted that the elders of that church upon paul's sending for them did meet at miletum apart from the people , as was noted before out of act. . of the elders of jerusalem ; but this is nothing to our question , whether a church be many congregations , or one onely . as much might he said of the other of the seven churches of asia , with that at antioch , philippi and thessalonica . ans. and if as much were said of these as of the other , as much might also be answered . and though philippi and thessalonica had many bishops , deacons , overseers , yet all this is too short to prove they were many congregations ; for what should hinder but one congregation may have many officers ? that which followeth in this sixteenth page , and so forward to the middle of pag. . is spent in answering the other two exceptions which you formerly proposed pag. . concerning which we need not to spend much time ; the one of them , as we said before , is altogether besides the purpose , and on which side soever the truth doth lie in that matter , the present question is nothing at all cleared thereby ; and for the other , we leave it to them that make it to undertake the defence of it . for us it is sufficient to have shewed that all that you have said from matth. . tell the church , doth not prove that congregations must depend upon the government of synods , nor that many congregations are in scripture usually called by the name of a church ; and this being alreadie performed in that which we have answered , we therefore now proceed to consider of your third argument . chap. iiii. containing an answer to your third argument from acts . if that all ancient and modern writers , of all sorts , ( excepting onely some few of these last fiftie yeers , engaged by their own tenet of independency ) have with one voice concluded this chapter , a formall president for synods , would weigh any thing herein , the matter would soon be at an end ; but however the ●ext it self is so pregnant of this truth , that it hath of it self strength enough to deliver it self of it . here 's all that goes to the making up of a compleat synod , first , here 's the occasion — secondly , here 's a designation both of the commissioners and place , — thirdly , here 's the matter of a synod , — fourthly , here 's the form of a synod , — fifthly , here 's the end of a synod , — lastly , here 's the proper effect of a synod , — pag. . if all this were granted , yet the thing in difference , as your self have stated the question , in pa. , , . of your book , is not concluded thereby . for all this that is here said , goeth no further , but onely to shew that there ought to be synods ; whereas the question is about the power of synods , and how far the same doth reach , whether so far as that a synod onely ( and not a particular congregation ) ought to ordain officers , and excommunicate offenders : and between these two is a wide difference ; so that many a man may acknowledge the former , which is all that is here concluded , and yet not acknowledge the latter , which is the maine point , which should have been cleared . for our parts we deny not but there ought to be synods , and your argument concludes no more : yea your self do testifie , pag. . that those whom you deal against , do acknowledge as much in effect as here by you is concluded ; for there you say that they acknowledge , that neighbour churches may meet , consult and advise , &c. and if they acknowledge all this , then they acknowledge a use of synods , because these things we suppose , cannot be done by many churches at once , unlesse it be by their messengers , and deputies assembled together , which assembly is no other then a synod . wherefore sith no more is here concluded , then is by the independents parties ( as you call them ) acknowledged , we need not insist long , in giving answer to this argument . we will therefore onely briefly mention some grounds , that incline us to think that this assembly in act. . was a synod , and then give some annotations upon some few passages in your discourse about this place , and so proceed to the next argument . touching the former , when we say this meeting in act. . was a synod , we mean at least such an one as mr. parker pol. eccl. lib. . c. . sect. . understands it to be , viz. a consociation or combination of more churches then one , even of two at least . or as doctor whitakar who counts it neither a generall councill , nor yet a nationall , or provinciall , but a particular councill , as he cals it , lesse then either of the other . de concil. q. . c. . and that matters were carried in it , in way of an ordinarie synod , may appear by two things . the persons imployed in it , which were not onely the apostles , those extraordinarie officers , but also the ordinarie elders and brethren of jerusalem . ver. , , . and besides paul and barnabas , certain others that were sent with them from antioch , v. . secondly , the meanes used for clearing the controversie , then in hand , was not the apostolicall authoritie , nor any extra ordinarie revelation , vouchsafed to the apostles and such extra ordinarie persons : there is not a word mentioned of any such thing ; but the means they used , was the same , that is common to ordinarie synods , viz. much disputation , v. . peter's experience of gods blessing upon his ministerie , to cornelius , and his companie , v. . and the like is done by paul and barnabas , for their part , ver. . and as for james , he alledgeth the testimonie of the prophet amos , v. , . and the law of moses , read and preached in the synagogues , everie sabbath day , v. . now all these means being no other , but such as may be used , in ordinarie synods , therefore we see no other , but this meeting might be such an one . here is a designation ( say you ) of the commissioners and place . p. . answ. but these commissioners , and this place , were designed onely by them of antioch , v. . which shews that this meeting , was not of any more , but two churches , antioch and jerusalem : for if there had been more , how came it to passe , that onely they of antioch determine the place ? reason would have required , that if there had been others , they also should have had a voice in determining the place of meeting . here is the matter of a synod , not onely apostles but elders , and of severall churches . pag. . answ. true : but these churches are not mentioned , to be any other , but onely antioch and jerusalem . both thus meeting , to determine so great a matter , consequently all matter of jurisdiction , is not confined to one single congregation . pag. . answ. the matter determined , was a matter of doctrine , viz. whether circumcision was necessarie to salvation : v. . and there fore no matter of jurisdiction , unlesse jurisdiction , and doctrine be the same . and though they that taught this doctrine , ( if they perfisted pertinaciously therein , ) deserved to be censured , as you do truly alledge , from tit. . . reject an heretick , the dispencing of which censure , is a matter of jurisdiction . yet ( for ought that doth appear to the contrary ) both these churches might concur , to clear up the doctrine , and yet one onely , even that congregation ( whereof the offenders were properly members ) might dispence the censure , that was due for their pertinacious defence of such doctrine . the concurrence of both , to clear up the doctrine , doth argue want of light in the one ; but neverthelesse there might be entirenesse , of jurisdiction in each . but if churches had then been independent , antioch had undertaken and been able her selfe sufficiently , and finally to have judged the cause , and prevented the danger . answ. antioch did undertake to have ended the matter among themselves , and spent much time about it , before there was any speech of seeking out for help elsewhere , as appears , vers. . and this doth sufficiently declare it , that they were not necessarily dependant upon any other church , or churches , but had right to have ended the matter within themselves , if ability had served thereto , or else this undertaking of theirs had been sinfull , as being an attempting to doe that whereto they had no right . and though by reason of much dissention among themselves , they were forced to seek for help for ending the cause , this may argue want of ability and light , but argues not any want at all of authority or right : in which respect they might be independent , notwithstanding their imperfection in the other regard . suppose a father of children , or master of a family , through want of wisdome , or courage , be not able to rule his own children , and houshold , as eli , or suppose a king that is a child , as salomon speaks , ( eccles. . ) or princes that are babes , ( as the prophet termeth them , isai. . ) be not able to govern their own subjects , as rehoboam , king. . would you think this want of sufficient ability , a sufficient argument to prove , that such a father or master , had no authority or right to rule his own children , or houshold ; nor such a prince any right to rule his subjects ; but that the families of the one must depend upon other families ; and the common-wealth of the other upon other common-wealths ? we suppose you would not say so ? and yet you may as well say it , as say as here you doe , that if churches had been independent , antioch had been able her selfe sufficiently to have ended the cause . antioch finding her selfe not able , may send to jerulem for help ; and yet this sending neither proves right of jurisdiction in them of jerusalem , who are sent unto , nor want of jurisdiction in them of antioch , who so doe send . yes , say you . an obliging the churches by decrees , laid on them , as a burden , is a use of the keyes , in which use of them , ephesus is commended , pergamus and thyatyra reproved , pag. . answ. but if this be a use of the keyes , may it not be of the key of doctrine , as well as the key of discipline , sith the burdens laid on them , were not burdens of penalty , but burdens of duty ; not punishments to be suffered for offence given ; but rules of practice to be observed , lest offence should be taken ; as is plaine , if the particulars be considered , pag. . and therefore it seems the imposing these burdens , was not so properly an act of jurisdiction , and discipline , as an act of doctrine . as for ephesus , the use of the keyes ( for which they are commended ) is not ( as you affirme ) for imposing decrees as burdens upon one another ; nor is pergamus or thyatyra reproved , for neglect of so doing , but trying and detecting counterfeit apostles , which was a matter of doctrine , and not bearing with them that were evil , which was matter of discipline , are the things for which ephesus is commended ; and suffring them which were evill ( which was a neglect of discipline ) is that for which the other are reproved , rev. . . . . but neither is the one commended for imposing decrees , nor the other reproved for neglecting so to doe . but you will prove that the synod had jurisdiction and power of the keyes of discipline ; because , say you , this decree is it self a rule given , wherein and whereby to use the keyes , upon such as shall prove stubborn , in defending the contrary of what is here decreed — , and that authority which can give the rule , can ( a fortiori ) back and punish its breach . p. . ans. but is this certain and clear , that whoever hath authority by way of doctrine , to impose a rule , hath also authoritie , by way of discipline , to punish its breach ? we propose to consideration , these instances for the contrarie . first of all the prophets in israel , isaiah , joel , amos , and the rest , had authoritie by way of doctrine , ( as being sent of god for that purpose ) to deliver the wil of god , as a rule to be observed , not onely by all the princes , and people , but even by the priests and levits also ; for so we read they many times did , and yet not being priests themselves , nor levites , they had not authority to punish , by way of discipline , such as disobeyed their doctrine , and those holy rules which they delivered from the lord . nextly , any one minister , who is truely sent of god , may in his doctrine , deliver the rules of gods word , to the people he is sent unto , and impose those rules as burthens , and necessary things to be observed ; and yet one minister alone cannot punish the breach of those rules , in a way of discipline , because church-discipline is to be dispenced by a church , matth. . . and one man alone ( we are perswaded ) you will not say , can be a church . further , any minister or ministers of one church ( be it congregationall or nationall ) may upon occasion being desired thereto , preach the word of god in another the like church , and so impose burdens of christian duties to be observed by them , that they thus occasionally preach unto ; yet it would not follow they might by discipline punish such as should walke contrary to those rules , because the power of jurisdiction which they have when they are at home in their owne church , doth not reach so farre as unto that other church where now they are called to preach the doctrine of the word . lastly , there is no doubt but any minister , or ministers of the gospel ( if occasion served thereunto ) might by way of doctrine deliver rules of faith and obedience , unto pagans , and such as are no members of any christian church at all , and might command them in the name of the lord , to observe those rules ; and yet it would not therefore follow , that they might punish those pagans in a way of discipline , for the breach of those rules ; because the apostle saith plainly , what have i to doe to judge them that are without ? cor. . . yea , there are sundry good writers in reformed churches , who do hold , that doctors in the church have authority by their office , to deliver sound wholsome doctrine , from the scriptures , and yet may not meddle , with dispensation of sacraments , nor discipline ; see among others for this , calvines instit. lib. . ch. . sect. . and if this be so , this may be another instance for the same purpose as the rest , and by all this , we suppose it is clear , that some men may have authoritie , by way of doctrine , to impose rules , that must be observed , as necessary things , and yet not have authoritie , by way of discipline , to punish those that shall disobey those rules . and therefore though the first of these were granted , to be within the power of a synod , yet that they have power to do the other also , is not proved thereby . chap. v. containing an answer to your fourth argument , taken from tim. . . laying on of the hands of the presbytery . hence i argue thus . such as are for independency , admit of no other rule in church-government , but the scripture practise or institution , but where in all the scripture , read we of any ordination , of pastors , but by presbyters ? — timothy was ordained by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery : titus was for this very cause , left at creet that he should ordain elders in every city . pag. , . answ. all that is here said is onely about ordination of officers , which ( at the most ) is but one part of the ecclesiasticall government , or jurisdiction . and therefore if it were granted , that this ordination belongeth onely to a synod , yet the question ( being not of one part , but of the whole jurisdiction ) is not concluded thereby . neverthelesse we are willing to consider what is said about this particular , and therefore our answer is distinctly thus . that if a congregation have elders of it own , then when other officers are to be ordained , in that church , such ordination is to be performed , by the imposition of the hands of those elders . this we never denied , and a good deale of your proofs , do conclude no more . for what if the presbyterie at ephesus , did lay hands upon timothy , tim. . . and the presbyterie , at antioch upon paul , and barnabas , act. . , . which are two of your proofs ? this may evince , that in churches furnished with a presbyterie , ( as ephesus and antioch were ) that that presbyterie is to perform imposition of hands , which is nothing against us , neither do willingly acknowledge the same . but it may be in this argument you intend a further matter , viz. that ordination cannot be performed lawfully , by any , but onely by elders . for where ( say you ) in all the scripture do we read of any ordination of pastors but by presbyters ? whereto we answer three things . that we do read of such a matter in the scripture . that if we did not , yet we read so much as b● good consequence doth infer the lawfulnesse of the practise . that which we do read , that may seeme , to make against this practise , is not because the thing , is in every case , unlawfull , but for other reasons . for the first of these , we alledge numb. . . which place sheweth , that though the levites were church officers , and the children of israel were none , yet the children of israel did lay their hands upon the levites ; by which scripture , thus much is manifest , that when a church hath no elders , but the first elders themselves are to be ordained , and this at such times , and in such places , where elders can not conveniently be borrowed from any other church , in such case imposition of hands may lawfully be performed , by some principall men of the congregation , although they be not elders by office ; for sith it was so in the church of israel as this text doth witnesse , what should hinder but in the like case , the like may be lawfully done in these dayes ? if any shall ask how was it possible , that the children of israel , being should all lay hands upon the levites at once ? answer . it is not like that all did it , but some instead of the rest : and so when some do impose hands , in stead of all the congregation , that may be sufficient . if it shall be said , these children of israel , might be elders , and so their example will be no warrant for imposition of hands by non-elders : the answer is , it is like they were elders , as being the chief and principall members , of the congregation ; but yet their example proveth the point if two things be considered . first , that they did not this as a work peculiar to them as elders . secondly , that they did it not for themselves onely , but for all the congregation ; the former of which may be thus manifested ; if they did it as elders , then either as elders and governours ecclesiasticall , or as civill governours but not the first , for that charge was onely belonging to aaron and his sons , levit. . and these levites now ordained , if the second be said , then it will follow , that civill magistrates though no church officers , may impose hands in ordination of church officers , and so the point is gained . for if magistrates may do it , then it will follow that a church wanting magistrates may perform this action by other the fittest instruments she hath . for this is not a work properly tied to the magistrates office ; because then the church in the apostles time , wanting magistrates , could not have had officers ; the contrary whereof is manifest in the scripture , act. . . tit. . . secondly , as these children of israel ( suppose they were the chief fathers of families ) imposed hands on the levites , not as elders and governours ecclesiasticall , or civill but as principall members of the church , so what was herein performed by them , was not done by themselves onely , but for all the congregation . and this appears , first because these levites now to be ordained by imposition of hands , were taken in stead of all the first-born of israel , and not in stead of the first born of elders onely : numb. . , . secondly , they were presented to the lord , as an offering of the children of israel , numb. . . and not of the elders onely ; and inasmuch as all offerings were to be presented at the doore of the tabernacle , with the imposition of his hands whose the offering was , levit. . . . it is therfore evident , that they that imposed hands on the levites , did it in the name of all the people , whose offering these levites were . thirdly , it was usuall , that when all the multitude brought an oblation , the elders put their hands on the head of the sacrifice . levit. . , . viz. in stead of all the multitude , whose the sacrifice was . and thus you see , we read in scriptures of the imposition of hands , performed by them that were no elders , by office , and so this demand of yours , where in scripture do we read of such a practise , is answered . but if we did not read of any such thing , yet it may suffice ( which was our second particular to be proved ) that we do read so much as by good consequence , inferreth the lawfulnesse of the practise . and for this purpose , first , we propound act. . act. . and act. . where we read of the peoples electing , and chusing officers , of which places , more may be spoken afterward ; now if the people may elect officers , then in some cases , they may ordain them also , because ordination is lesse then election , and depends upon it as a necessarie antecedent ; by vertue whereof it is justly administred . yea it is not onely lesse then election , but lesse in the same kind , being nothing else , but the accomplishment of election , or the admission of a person into the possession of that office , whereto he had right before by election . and hence it follows by good consequence , that if a single congregation , may elect officers , which is the greater , they may also in some case ordain them , which is the lesser . for your self do grant that to argue affirmatively , from the greater , to the lesser in the same kind is good consequence , and such is this ; which kind of arguing is also used by doctor whitaker concerning this very particular . besides , we read , heb. . . that imposition of hands is amongst the principles of religion , and joyned by the apostle with baptisme , resurrection , and the eternall judgement ; and therefore an institution of ordinary and perpetuall use , as all principles are , and so not to be omitted in the ordination of officers . and if so , it will therefore follow , that in some case it may be performed by such as are not in office ; because the case may so be , that otherwise it cannot be performed at all , so that either no officers must be ordained , nor any imposition of hands used at all ; or else imposition of hands in some case may be performed by them that are not in office . now that it cannot alwayes be performed by officers , three instances make it manifest : first , when there are no officers of any other church to be had , as at the first rise of the first christian church in a pagan countrey , far remote from all churches , as here in america by the english ; & in the case which you put of a company of christians by shipwrack cast upon an iland where no pastors were . secondly , when those that may be had , are so exceedingly corrupt , and the churches to whom they do belong , that it could not be convenient to make use of them , but very dangerous to fetch ordination onely from them , as at the first reformation after the times of popery , when there were none to be had , but from the popish bishops and priests ; from whom to receive ordination , were as much as to say , either that the ministers of antichrist may ordain ministers to the church of christ , or else that popish bishops are true ministers of christ : and sure if christians might not have any ministers , unlesse ordained by the popish bishops , the case were as pittifull as if sheep might have no shepheards , but such are appointed to them by the wolves . thirdly , when those that are more desireable , have no sufficient calling to dispence ordination in another church which is the case when they are not requested thereto ; for sith ordinary elders are not like apostles , to feed all flocks , but that flock of god , which dependeth upon them , pet. . . that flock over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers , acts . . therefore wee doe not understand , how they can assume authority and power unto themselves , to ordain elders to other churches , whereof themselves are neither elders nor members , unlesse they had a calling thereto , by the request of that church where the elders are to be ordained . so that by these instances it appeareth , that sometimes officers of other churches are not to be had , sometimes those that may be had , are as ill as none , and not to be depended on , or desired ; and sometimes those that are more desireable , have no sufficient calling to ordain ministers in any other church ; and therefore in such cases as these , sith officers must not be admitted without imposition of hands , imposition of hands must be performed by non-officers . but you will say , we read in sundry places , where imposition of hands , was performed by elders , and not one place in all the new testament , where it was performed by others . whereto we answer , that all this is true , but nothing against what we have said ; because ( which was our third particular to be cleared ) the true reason of this , that is here alledged , was not , as if ordination by non-elders were in every case unlawfull : but because in those times elders were not wanting ; for there were the apostles and apostolicke men , who were elders in all churches . and we do willingly grant , that where a church is furnished with elders , imposition of hands is to be performed by the elders , and so much the examples in the new testament doe evince . but we have also shewed from numb. . that if there be no elders , as at the first , nor any that can conveniently be gotten from other churches , then imposition of hands may lawfully be performed by others . but you will prove , that it doth not belong to the congregation with or without a pastor , to ordain elders ; because the rules of direction , how to proceed in ordination , and the epistles wherein those rules are , are not written or directed to the whole churches of ephesus or creet , but to timothy and titus only , as their inscriptions speaks . answ. if this be a sufficient reason , to prove that the people may not in any case , meddle with ordination , then by as good a reason , a man may prove that ordination belongs not to the presbytery , nor to the synods , but onely to one man , as the prelats would have it : for a man may turn the reason against your selfe , and say , the rules of direction how to proceed in ordination , and the epistles wherein those rules are , are not directed to any presbytery or synod at ephesus or creet , or anywhere else , but onely to timothy and titus , who were each of them but onely one man . but look how you would answer this plea for episcopall ordination , the same answer may be given to yours . and for us , we cannot but approve the answer given to this kind of reasoning , by the refuter of doctor downhams sermon at lambeth , who in his reply , part . . pag. . doth shew , that the lawes of church-government prescribed in the epistles of timothy and titus , were not provided for bishops alone , nor elders alone , but for a mixt state , wherein many presbyters under the guidance of one pastor or president , doe administer and execute all matters with the peoples consent and approbation . in which affirmation he alledgeth the consent of most & best divines of later times , instancing in calvin & beza , & especially the apostles own warrant in the close of thoses epistles , with these words , grace be with you , or with you all , tim. . . tit. . . and by this , saith he , it appeareth , that what was written specially by name to timothy & titus , was intended to be of common use , not only for other ministers , but also in some sort to all the saints that then conversed in those places . now if what was written by name to timothy and titus , was intended to be of common use to all the saints , then there is no reason that you should appropriate those rules onely to the use of presbyteries and synods , no more then others only to the use of prelats ; especially this being considered withall , that if once the saints be excluded from being at all concerned in those rules , they that would appropriate them to one man , have a fairer colour for their plea , then they that would appropriate them to a presbyterie , or synod , consisting of many ; because timothy or titus to whom those epistles are by name directed , are not many persons , but either of them one onely . but it appeares , say you , that we read in scripture , that this part of jurisdiction was dispensed by the eldership onely , and that a consociated eldership . pag. . answ. that it was dispensed by the eldership , we willingly grant ; but that it was dispensed by the eldership onely , and that the eldership by which it was dispensed , was a consociated eldership ( that is to say , a synod ) neither of these doe appeare at all : nay , we suppose the contrary to both these may appeare . for as for the former , we have shewed the contrary already ; and for the latter , we will onely instance in that eldership at antioch , acts . that laid hands on paul and barnabas , which eldership was not any synod , but an eldership of one congregation : for it is plain out of acts . . that the church of antioch was no more then might be gathered together in one place ; yea , the whole multitude of them were gathered together at the return of paul and barnabas from the synod at jerusalem , to heare the epistle read which was sent from that synod , acts . . . and therefore this church being but one congregation , that eldership therein by whom paul and barnabas were ordained , could not be any synod . but , say you , there must be triall of parties to be ordained , and hands must not be laid on suddenly on any , and 't is laid down what kind of men they ought to be , before they be ordained . and that this triall and approbation of the parties to be ordained , is in the hands of the presbyterie , and consociated eldership , not the whole . pa. . answ. that they ought to be tried , before they be ordained , yea and afore they be chosen , we freely grant ; but that this triall is in the synod alone , hath not appeared , by the former texts , nor by any of them . we cannot perceive how any of them , do in any sort , look towards such a thing . and as for this which is here alledged of the impossibilitie of discharging it by a single congregation , with or without a pastor ; we answer thereto ; first , that if a congregation that is without a pastor could not discharge it , yet if they be furnished with an able and faithfull pastor , we know not what should hinder but they might be able thereto . an able and faithfull pastor , one would think should be able to try others , that are to be ordained pastors ; and therefore we marvell that you should denie this abilitie to this congregation , as well as to the other . secondly , suppose they be without a pastor , yet if they be beleevers , they are not altogether without abilitie of spirituall discerning , to discern whether that which is taught be wholsome doctrine , or otherwise . witnesse the words of our saviour , who saith , that his sheep know his voice , but a stranger they will not follow , but will flee from him , for they know not the voice of strangers : and though there had been many theeves and robbers , yet the sheep did not hear them . joh. . which plainly shews , that the sheep of christ , have some abilitie , to trie and discern , whether the doctrine that men teach , be the wholsome doctrine of truth , or otherwise . which may be the more confirmed , by the promise , they shall be all taught of god , isa. . . and by that of joh. . that if any man will do gods will , he shall know the doctrine , whether it be of god , or men speak it of themselves . there must be some abilitie to discern , whether men be qualified according to the rule , afore they ought to be elected , and chosen into office ; and the people of god have so much abilitie , to discerne this fitnesse , as that they may lawfully , make this election ; and what then should hinder , but they may have so much abilitie , as is of necessitie required , afore there be proceedings unto ordination . as for that instance which you give about the union of the two natures in the person of christ , whether the nature assumed the nature , or the person the person ; or the nature the person , or the person the nature . and again , whether this assumption was by way of composition , or conjunction , or conversion , or vision ( we suppose it should be union ) wherein you think it would be hard for these examiners in a congregation , to hit upon the right judgement , and of four preachers to ordain him that were orthodox in this matter . we say no more to this instance , but onely thus much , that as he is the best preacher who most teacheth the people knowledge , eccles. . and who had rather speake five words to the understanding , so as he may teach others , and the hearers be edisied , rather then ten thousand words in a strange tongue , and uncoth termes , that himselfe might be admired , cor. . . so we know nothing but the people of god in a congregation : these terms being explained unto them , might be able to discern which were the orthodox tenent of the four particulars , and accordingly pitch upon him that holds it . lastly , you speak , pag. . of four things that are opposed about this matter of ordination . where , though we will not take upon us to justifie all those reasons , but leave them to the authors of them , to undertake the defence of them , if so be there be any that doe so argue ; yet we may speak a word or two to some passages in your answer to these four particulars . first of all , to the case of a company of beleevers cast by ship-wrack upon an island , where are no pastors , your answer is , that the question is about the ordinary way of scripture-institution in this matter of ordination , not what may be done in extraordinary cases . whereby it seems that in the case proposed , you grant ordination may be performed by non-elders . and if so , what then becomes of all you have said before of timothy and titus , and of the rules about ordination in the epistles to these two evangelists , of the presbytery at antioch , that laid hands upon paul and barnabas , of the inability of people to examine and try who were fit for office , and the rest ? for granting what here you doe , you plainly declare , that all your former reasoning amounts but to this much , that when pastors can be had , then imposition of hands is best performed by those pastors , otherwise it may be done without them ; wherein we for our parts consent with you . but by this means the necessary dependance upon synods for ordination of officers , is utterly overthrowne . but , say you , indepencie of every single congregation , to bee the ordinary way , herein is the claime of the independent party . answ. what others claim , they may declare their grounds for the same as they see cause ; for our selves , that which we hold , with the grounds thereof , is briefly this , in four propositions ; two of them concerning what is to be done in case a chhurch have elders of its own : and two concerning what is to be done in case it have not . in respect of the former . proposition . if a church have elders of its own , imposition of hands in ordination is to be performed by those elders , and not by the people . proposition . a church that hath elders of its own , needs not to depend upon a synod , or the presbyteries of other churches , consociat or single , for the the ordaining of its officers ; but the same may be performed lawfully and sufficiently by its owne elders . in respect of the latter : . in a church that hath no elders , imposition of hands in ordaining of officers , may lawfully be performed by some principall members in the congregation . . if the church have elders of its own , it may doe well to crave the approbation of the ministers of neighbouring congregations if there be any such . the grounds of the first and third of these propositions hath been declared already ; and for the second we thus argue : arg. . if such a church may elect and chuse officers to it self , without any necessary dependance upon synods ; then they may ordain them also , having so fit instruments as elders of their own to doe it by . but the first is true , as we have elsewhere shewed in this answer of ours : therfore the second is true also . the consequence of the major is cleare by this reason , that they which can doe the greater , can doe the lesser also , if it be of the same kind . arg. . if such a church as we here speak of , may not ordaine their officers without dependance on a synod , or a classis ; then neither may they administer seals without such dependance : for the word makes such dependance , no more requisite in the one case , then in the other . arg. . if it were not thus , it were not possible , there should be any synod or classis upon the face of the earth ; for what is a classis or a synod ? but a companie of ministers or elders , of severall congregations , assembled together to consider of things concerning themselves , and the churches of christ , specially such churches , whereto they do peculiarly belong ; now this assembling of elders into a classis or synod , doth imply that there were elders before there was any classis , or synod ; and if so , then certainly there was no concurrence , of the classis or synod in the ordination of those elders ; sith they were elders before that synod had any being ; which doth sufficiently shew , that the concurrence of a synod , is not alwaies required in the ordaining of elders . obj. if it be said the synod did ordain timothy , an evangelist , an officer of many churches , tim. . . and therefore much more must ordain officers of one particular church . the answer is , first , that the consequence is not strong , because a particular church might have authoritie sufficient , to ordain by their eldership the officers of their particular church onely ; and not sufficient to ordain such as must be officers in all churches , whatsoever . the help of a classis or synod , where is a combination or consociation of elders , of many churches , might be requisite for ordaining an officer of many churches , and yet the eldership of our particular church , might be sufficient for ordaining such a one , as is to be officer , to no more but onely to that particular church . secondly , the ground hence is not certain . for though timothy was an evangelist , and so to travell from one church to another , yet the presbyterie tim. . . that laid hands on him , might be the presbyterie of one particular church , and not any synod or classis . for paul and barnabas were apostles , act. . . and . gal. . . and yet they were ordained , not by any classis or presbyterie of many churches , but by the presbyterie of one church , the church at antioch . act. . , , . those ( say they ) that can do the greater ( that is to say ) make a church , can do the lesse , make pastors of that church . ans. we would rather argue thus ; those that have power of electing officers , they have power of ordaining officers ; but the people that have no officers , have the former . therefore they have power to do the latter . the consequence is proved , because electing is greater then ordaining , and greater not in another kind , but in the same ; viz. about the placing of a minister , or the designing of a person to the office , of ministerie . now an argument from the greater to the lesse , in the same kind , you confesse will hold . which visible ministery where it is , this propertie or proper power of ordaining officers , is a necessarie and immediate ordinarie concomitant thereof . pag. . answ. if this be so , then there may be officers ordained , and not by a synod , even in a particular congregation ; because in such a one there may be a visible ministerie . although that which you have said in this argument , be not expresly against the congregations , electing their officers ; but onely against their ordaining of them , by imposition of hands ; yet in asmuch as sundrie passages in your book , and in this argument especially , do seem to make as much against the one , as the other . therefore as we have alreadie spoken , to the point of ordination , so we will also , for the readers further direction , give some grounds for confirmation of this position , about election , viz. election of ordinarie officers belongeth to the church , whereof the partie is to be an officer , so that they proceed in this election , according to the rules of the word ; both chusing a man fitted by god for the office , unto which they chuse him , and carrying their choice , in an orderly manner . reason it was thus in the apostles times , and therefore it ought to be so now . the antecedent is clear from act. . where in the very choice of an apostle , the church are not wholly excluded ; for though the office of an apostle being extraordinarie , the expresse designing of the particular person , is determined by god by lot , yet the church appoints two that one of them may be singled out , v. . and when the lot had fallen upon matthias , it is said he was numbred with the eleven apostles , v. . that is , he was by common suffrage of the churchchosen to be of that number ; for so doth the word signifie , that is used , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and therefore it is translated by scapula , omnium calculis allectus . and it is observable , that though the office was extraordinarie , and though the apostles ( who were extraordinarie officers , and had received their calling and extraordinarie authoritie from christ himself , immediately ) were now present , yet for all this , the church hath a stroke in this matter , both first appointing two , and then approving by their common suffrage or consent him of the two , on whom the lot had fallen ; to be for instruction unto us in after times , that in the choice of ordinarie officers , it should be farre from any of the sons of men , to exclude the people of god , from their right and interest therein ; for if they had a stroke in the choice of an apostle ; how much more should they have the like , in the choice of ordinarie officers ? and if the apostles themselves being present , would not abridge the people of this libertie , much lesse may others do it ; doubtlesse they that engrosse the authoritie of chusing ministers into their own hands , excluding the people , they arrogate more unto themselves then the apostles ever did . so likewise in act. . when deacons were to be appointed , the apostles do not take all the businesse into their own hands , as if election of such officers appertained onely to themselves , and not at all unto the people : but they call the whole multitude unto them , ver. . and bid them chuse out seven men , fitly qualified for the office , ver. . and accordingly the saying pleased the whole multitude ; and they chose seven that are there named , ver. . and having so done , they set them before the apostles that they might ordain them by laying their hands on them , ver. . and in act. . . it is said that the apostles ordained elders , by election , or lifting up of hands , ( for so doth {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} signifie ) in every church . obj. the word signifieth nothing else , but laying on of hands , which was the act of the apostles alone , and not of the people . ans. the word is never used for laying on of hands in all the scripture , but the word used for that is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , betwixt which and this word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , there is as much difference as betweene holding up and laying down . if luke the writer of the acts had intended the laying on of hands , it had been easie for him to have used the other word , which is proper to expresse such an action , and frequently used by himself in that sence in this book . act. . . and . . and . . object . but be it laying on , or lifting up , that was not the act of the people , but of the apostle alone . answ. of the apostles it is confessed : for who doubts , but as they moderated the whole action , and laid on their hands in ordination ; so they might also concurre in the election , by lifting up their hands ? but it will not follow , that therefore that lifting up of hands was performed by the apostles onely ; for elsewhere the word is used to expresse the act of the whole church , and is translated ( was chosen , cor. . . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; was chosen of the churches : even as one place mentioneth a gift that was in timothy , by the laying on of pauls hands , tim. . . which must not be understood of pauls hands alone , because another scripture mentioneth the hands of the presbytery , . tim. . . by all which it appeareth , that in the apostles times , the people had one hand in the election of their officers . and if so , then it ought to be so also in these dayes : for the practice of the apostles recorded in the acts is presidentiall for all churches in all ages , in those things that were not of particular reason and respect ; which for the peoples chusing their ministers , cannot be said . besides , when the apostles were alive , the churches were in the greatest purity , and therefore we may more safely tread in their steps . and further , if this practice had not been according to the mind of christ , we may be sure the apostles would not have countenanced it , nor have directed the churches to have used it , but would have left and prescribed some other course to be observed in the choyce of ministers , which we see they have not done . secondly , if ministers must not be chosen by the church , then either they must be called of god immediatly , or ministers without any calling at all , or be chosen and appointed by some other men : but not the first , because such immediate calling is now ceased ( as being peculiar to the extraordinary function of apostles , prophets , &c. ) which in these times are not to be expected ; nor the second , because that is expresly against the scripture , which saith , no man must take this honour to himselfe , but he that is called of god , as was aaron , heb. . . and therefore they that ran when god sent them not , are many times , and very sharply reproved in the prophets , jer. . . nor the third : for . god hath not given any such authority to other men that are not of the church , to appoint officers to the church : nor . may some of the church arrogate this power onely to themselves , excluding the rest ; because that which concerneth all ( as this matter doth ) ought to have approbation of all , unlesse it might appeare , that god had committed the thing only to some , which for the chusing of officers cannot be said . . it is sutable to right reason , that it should be thus : for . by this means the liberty of the church is not infringed by thrusting officers uppon them without their consent , and whom they never chose . also . this is a strong engagement to the people , to yeeld due reverence , subjection and obedience to their ministers , because they are the men whom themselves have chosen ; whereas one thrust upon them against their wills , is not like to be much beloved , but rather contemned and hated ; and how then shall they profit by his doctrine ? finally , the people have a right originally to chuse their civil officers , as is also practised at this day in many places : and when the lord brings a sword upon a land , the scripture saith expresly , that the people of the land may take a man of their coasts , and set him for their watchman , ezek. . . and if so , then they may well have liberty to chuse such as must be watchmen for their souls : for it is much more unreasonable , that there should be thrust upon them such watchmen and officers , upon whom the salvation or damnation of their souls doth depend , then such as upon whom dependeth no more but their wealth , or commodity of this life . and this shall suffice for answer to your fourth and last argument . there are in your book two other general heads which are somthing insisted on , the one about clearing such objections as are not reducible to your former arguments ; the other of appealing to the judgement of the adverse party : in both which , thopugh we might observe sundry things which were worth your second review , yet in as much as our intentions were chiefly to consider the weight of your arguments , but not to undertake the defence of every objection which you propose ; and considering withall , that those considerations from the order , unity , peace , and strength of government with the rest , are not intended by you ( as we suppose ) as convincing , but onely as probable grounds against that way which you deale against ; therfore for these and some other reasons , having spoken to that which we conceive to be the main substance of your book , we will here for this time surcease , praying the father of mercies for christ jesus his sake , to poure out his rich blessings of truth & peace upon our deare native countrey , and to guide all his servants there & here by a spirit of truth , into all truth . and to give us such hearts and grace , that we may follow the truth in love , till antichristianisme be utterly rooted out , and sion be restored , ( especially in england ) to her former beiuty , and new jerusalem come down from heaven , as a bride adorned for her husband , the lord jesus christ . to whom be all glory and praise for ever and ever . amen . finis . a defence of the answer made unto the nine questions or positions sent from new-england, against the reply thereto by that reverend servant of christ, mr. john ball, entituled, a tryall of the new church-way in new-england and in old wherin, beside a more full opening of sundry particulars concerning liturgies, power of the keys, matter of the visible church, &c., is more largely handled that controversie concerning the catholick, visible church : tending to cleare up the old-way of christ in new-england churches / by iohn allin [and] tho. shepard ... allin, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a defence of the answer made unto the nine questions or positions sent from new-england, against the reply thereto by that reverend servant of christ, mr. john ball, entituled, a tryall of the new church-way in new-england and in old wherin, beside a more full opening of sundry particulars concerning liturgies, power of the keys, matter of the visible church, &c., is more largely handled that controversie concerning the catholick, visible church : tending to cleare up the old-way of christ in new-england churches / by iohn allin [and] tho. shepard ... allin, john, - . shepard, thomas, - . [ ], p. printed by r. cotes for andrew crooke ..., london : . "the preface to the reader" dated: from new-england, novemb. , . reproduction of original in harvard university libraries. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng ball, john, - . -- tryall of the new-church way in new-england and in old. congregational churches -- new england. congregational churches -- government. - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread - emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of the answer made unto the nine questions or positions sent from new-england , against the reply thereto by that reverend servant of christ , mr. john ball ; entituled , a tryall of the new church-way in new-england and in old. wherin , beside a more full opening of sundry particulars concerning liturgies , power of the keys , matter of the visible church , &c. is more largely handled , that controversie concerning the catholick visible church ; tending to cleare up the old-way of christ in new-england churches . by iohn allin pastor of dedham tho. shepard pastor of cambridge in new-england . veritas nihil crubescit praeterquam abscondi , tertul. sua silentia amat spiritus per quae nobis illabitur , seque insinuat cupidis non gloriae sed cognoscendae veritatis , melanct. let the blessing come upon the head of joseph , and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren , deut. . . london , printed by r. cotes for andrew crooke , and are to be sold at the green dragon in pauls church-yard , . the preface to the reader . it was the profession of the lord jesus before pilate , when he questioned with him about his kingdome , john . . that for this cause he was born and came into the world , to beare witnesse of the truth . many truths about the spirituall kingdom of christ hath he imparted to us , if therfore we be born into the world , or sent into this wildernesse to beare witnesse to his truth , it is unto us reward sufficient , that we should be witnesses thereunto , even to the utmost parts of the earth . wee confesse wee have been too slow in this service of christ , not having to this day set forth an unanimous confession of that form of wholsome words which is preached , received , and professed in these churches of the lord jesus ; and which we are not unmindfull of , though our distances , and other difficulties may delay the opportunity . but this in the meane time we professe in generall , that ( so farre as wee know ) there is the same blessed spirit of truth breathing in the ministery of the country ; the same faith embraced and professed in the churches , which is generally received as the orthodox doctrine of the gospel , in the best reformed churches , and particularly by our godly learned brethren of england and scotland . and though errours have sprung up among us , and some are gone out from us , that we feare were not of us , yet wee have borne witnesse against them , and by the blessing of god , by the breath of christ in the mouths of his servants they have been blasted . neither doe we understand that these churches are accused of any errours about the saving truths of the gospel , and therefore we thought our selves not so much called of god to such a confession at present , as to cleare up to the world those truths we professe about the kingdome and government of christ in his churches , which is the great worke of this age , and of this nick of time . and yet here also we feare that we have been too slack ; for though it bee said , vvee are the volunteers , such as cry up this way , &c. and so it seemes wee are apprehended to bee one cause of these present differences : yet if things be well weighed , we may seem rather to bee farre behinde in the duty that lyes upon us . indeed some briefe answers sent over to some particular persons , to satisfie brethren what our practise is , ( with some briefe touch of our reasons ) rather then to disc●…sse those points , have been printed by some without our knowledge , or assent , upon what grounds they best know . and some short treatises by some reverend brethren have been published to declare their affectionate desires of the unanimous endevours of all our deare brethren , for a generall and holy reformation : but what hath been said or done that either may justly offend the minds of the godly , provoke their spirits , disunite their affections , or hinder a godly reformation ? yea , wee have been too slow to cleare our doctrine and practise from the many objections , harsh interpretations , and manifold criminations cast upon the same , wherein wee feare our lothnesse to intermeddle in these controversies for feare of making the breach wider amongst brethren ; and our desire rather to attend what light we might receive from others in these points wherein wee professe our selves seekers after the truth , have made us guilty of neglect in this our duty . but now we see our selves pressed hereto , by a necessity of justifying our wayes against the many aspersions cast upon them , as well as against the reasons used against them , for wee perceive by the first letter of our brethren , how the with-drawing of christians from the liturgy was imputed to us , and by this reply both in the epistle and divers passages , wee cannot but see what apprehensions are raised of us ; yea , many are apt to think , that if we had said nothing , yet our very act in forsaking the churches of god in our deare native country , and the cause of christ there , together with the practise of these churches thought to bee so different from the reformed churches , have been , not onely a great weakening to the hands of the godly , ( that have stood by the cause of christ ) but also have caused great disturbance to the reformation in hand : to which much might be said , but that wee should exceed the bounds of an epistle . yet let us intreat all the godly wise , to consider and look back upon the-season of this great enterprise , undertaken by us , and the manner of our proceedings in it , with the admirable workings of gods providence first and last about it ; and we think ( though we were silent ) they may easily satisfie themselves , whether this was of god or men , a sinfull neglect of the cause of christ , or a manifest attestation to the truth , by open profession against corruptions of worship in use , and for the necessity of reformation of the church ; and that confirmed by no small degree of sufferings for the same . for was it not a time when humane worship and inventions were growne to such an intolerable height , that the consciences of gods saints and servants inlightened in the truth ) could no longer bear them ? was not the power of the tyrannicall prelates so great , that like a strong current carryed all down streame before it , what ever was from the law , or otherwise set in their way ? did not the hearts of men generally faile them ? where was the people to bee found that would cleave to their godly ministers in their sufferings , but rather thought it their discretion , to provide for their owne quiet and safety ? yea , when some freely in zeale of the truth preached or professed against the corruptions of the times , did not some take offence at it , judge it rashnesse , and to bee against all rules of discretion , who since are ready to censure us for deserting the cause ? many then thought , it is an evill time , the prudent shall hold their peace , and might wee not say , this is not our resting place ? and what would men have us doe in such a case ? must wee study some distinctions to salve our consciences in complying with so manifold corruptions in gods worship ? or should wee live without gods ordinances , because wee could not partake in the corrupt administration thereof ? or content our selves to live without those ordinances of gods worship and communion of saints which hee called us unto , and our soules breathed after ? or should wee forsake the publique assemblies , and joyne together in private separated churches ? how unsufferable it would then have been , the great offence that now is taken at it , is a full evidence . and if in cities , or some such great townes that might have been done , yet how was it possible for so many scattered christians all over the countrey ? it is true , we might have suffered , if wee had sought it , wee might easily have found the way to have filled the prisons , and some had their share therein . but whether wee were called thereunto , when a wide doore was set open of liberty otherwise ; and our witnesse to the truth , ( through the malignant policy of those times ) could not bee open before the world , but rather smothered up in close prisons or some such wayes , together with our selves , wee leave to bee considered . wee cannot see but the rule of christ to his apostles and saints , and the practise of gods saints in all ages , may allow us this liberty as well as others , to fly into the wildernesse from the face of the dragon . but if it had been so , that the godly ministers and christians that fled to new-england , were the most timorous and faint hearted of all their brethren , that stayed behinde , and that those sufferings were nothing in comparison of their brethrens ( for why should any boast of sufferings ? ) yet who doth not know that the spirit who gives various gifts , and all to profit withall , in such times doth single out every one to such worke , as hee in wisdome intends to call them unto ? and whom the lord will honour by suffering for his cause , by imprisonment , &c. hee gives them spirits suitable thereto : whom the lord will reserve for other service , or imploy in other places , hee inclines their hearts rather to fly , giving them an heart suitable to such a condition . it is a case of conscience frequently put , and oft resolved by holy bradford , peter martyr , philpot , and others , in queene maries bloody dayes , viz. whether it was lawfull to flee out of the land : to which their answer was , that if god gave a spirit of courage and willingnesse to glorifie him by sufferings , they should s●…ay ; but if they found not such a spirit they might lawfully fly , yea , they advised them thereunto . those servants of christ , though full of the spirit of glory , and of christ to outface the greatest persecuters in profession of the truth , unto the death , yet did not complaine of the cowardize of such as fled , because they deserted them and the cause , but rather advised divers so to doe , and rejoyced when god gave liberty to their brethren to escape with their lives to the places of liberty , to serve the lord according to his word . neither were those faithfull saints and servants of god uselesse and unprofitable in the church of god that fled from the bloody prelates . the infinite and onely wise god hath many workes to doe in the world , and hee doth by his singular providence give gifts to his servants , and disposeth them to his worke as seemeth best to himselfe . if the lord will have some to beare witnesse by imprisonments , dismembring , &c. wee honour them therein ; if hee will have others instrumentall to promote reformation in england , wee honor them , and rejoyce in their holy endeavours , praying for a blessing upon themselves and labours . and what if god will have his church and the kingdome of christ goe up also in these remote parts of the world , that his name may bee known to the heathen , or whatsoever other end hee hath , and to this end will send forth a company of weake-hearted christians , which dare not stay at home to suffer , why should wee not let the lord alone , and rejoyce that christ is preached howsoever , and wheresoever ? and who can say that this work was not undertaken and carryed on with sincere and right ends , and in an holy serious manner , by the chiefe and the body of such as undertooke the same ? the lord knows whether the sincere desires of worshipping himselfe according to his will , of promoting and propagating the gospel , was not in the hearts of very many in this enterprise ; and hee that seeth in secret , and rewardeth openly , knows what prayers and teares have been poured out to god by many alone , and in dayes of f●…sting and prayer of gods servants together , for his counsell , direction , assistance , blessing in this worke : how many longings and pa●…tings of heart have been in many after the lord jesus , to see his goings in his sanctuary , as the one thing their soules desired and requested of god , that they might dwell in his house for ever ; the fruit of which prayers and desires this liberty of new-england hath been taken to bee , and thankfully received from god. yea , how many serious consultations with one another , and with the faithfull ministers , and other eminent servants of christ , have been taken about this worke , is not unknowne to some ; which cleares us from any rash heady rushing into this place , out of discontent , as many are ready to conceive . wee will here say nothing of the persons whose hearts the lord stirred up in this businesse ; surely all were not rash , weake-spirited , inconsiderate of what they left behinde , or of what it was to goe into a wildernesse . but if it were well knowne and considered , or if wee were able to expresse and recount the singular workings of divine providence , for the bringing on of this worke , to what it is come unto , it would stop the mouths of all that have not an heart to accuse and blaspheme the goodnesse of god in his glorious workes ▪ whatever many may say or think , wee beleeve after-times will admire and adore the lord herein , when all his holy ends , and the wayes he hath used to bring them about shall appeare . look from one end of the heaven to another , whether the lord hath assayed to do such a worke as this in any nation , so to carry out a people of his owne from so flourishing a state , to a wildernesse so far distant , for such ends , and for such a worke : yea , and in few yeares hath done for them , as hee hath here done for his poore despised people . when wee looke back and consider what a strange poise of spirit the lord hath laid upon many of our hearts , wee cannot but wonder at our selves , that so many , and some so weak and tender , with such cheerfulnesse and constant resolutions against so many perswasions of friends , discouragements from the ill report of this countrey , the straits , wants , and tryalls of gods people in it , &c. yet should leave our accommodations and comforts , should forsake our dearest relations , parents , brethren , sisters , christian friends , and acquaintances , over looke all the dangers and difficulties of the vast seas , the thought whereof was a terrour to many , and all this to go to a wildernesse ▪ where wee could forecast nothing but care and temptations , onely in hopes of enjoying christ in his ordinances , in the fellowship of his people ; was this from a stupid senslesnesse or desperate carelesnesse what became of us or ours ? or want of naturall affections to our deare countrey , or nearest relations ? no surely , with what bowells of compassion to our deare countrey ; with what heart-breaking affections , to our deare relations , and christian friends many of us at least came away , the lord is witnesse . what shall we say of the singular providence of god bringing so many ship-loads of his people , through so many dangers , as upon eagles wings , with so much safety from yeare to yeare ? the fatherly care of our god in feeding and cloathing so many in a wildernesse , giving such healthfulnesse and great increase of posterity ? what shall wee say of the worke it selfe of the kingdome of christ ? and the form of a common-wealth erected in a wildernesse , and in so few yeares brought to that state , that scarce the like can bee seen in any of our english colonies in the richest places of this america , after many more years standing ? that the lord hath carryed the spirits of so many of his people through all their toylsome labour , wants , difficulties , losses , &c. with such a measure of chearfulnesse and contentation ? but above all wee must acknowledge the singular pity and mercies of our god , that hath done all this and much more for a people so unworthy , so sinfull , that by murmurings of many , unfaithfulnesse in promises , oppressions , and other evils which are found among us , have so dishonoured his majesty , exposed his worke here to much scandall and obloquie , for which wee have cause for ever to bee ashamed , that the lord should yet owne us , and rather correct us in mercy , then cast us off in displeasure , and scatter us in this wildernesse , which gives us cause with mich. . to say , who is a god like our god , that pardoneth iniquities , and passeth by the transgressions of the remnant of his heritage ; even because he delighteth in mercy ? though we be a people of many weaknesses and wants , yet wee acknowledge our god to have been to us a god of many mercies , in respect of that sweet peace which he hath taken away from so many nations , yet continuing the same to us ; in respect also of that liberty wee have in gods house , the blessed ministery of the word , the sweet unity and communion of gods churches and ministers , increase and multiplication of churches , christian government in the common-wealth , and many other mercies wee enjoy , but especially the gracious presence of christ to many of our soules in all these . but wee will not insist much upon this subject , being perswaded it is in the consciences and hearts of many of our dear countrey-men to thinke that we should be an object of love and tendernesse to that state and people , by whose laws and unkind usages we were driven out into a wildernesse , rather then to bee judged as desertors of our brethren , and the cause of christ in hand : with whom ( excuse us if we now speak plainly ) it had been far more easie unto many of us to have suffered , then to have adventured hither upon the wildernesse sorrows wee expected to have met withall ; though we must confesse the lord hath sweetned it beyond our thoughts , and utmost expectations of prudent men . but passing by this wee must desire the reader to beare with us a little in removing that apprehension that wee are the great stumbling block in the way of reformation , which ( if it were true ) it had been better we had been driven so farre into this wildernesse , as never to have been heard of more . concerning our affection to this blessed worke of a publique reformation , of the nation in generall , and the particular churches or congregations of the land in particular , ( as it is best knowne to god ) so wee thinke it is not unknowne to men , not onely here by our daily prayers for it , and sometime solemne seekings of god about it ; but also we have given some testimonies thereof both by private letters , and the publique motions of some of gods eminent servants among us tending that way . we conceive two things specially in our doctrine and practise , that may seem to bee stumbling blocks in the way of this publique reformation , which we shall here remove . the first is our practise wherein wee seem so much to differ from the reformed churches , in receiving to our churches onely visible saints and beleevers . this we doe freely confesse that our practise and judgement doe evidence this to all , that we thinke reformation of the church doth not onely consist in purging out corrupt worship , and setting up the true ; but also in purging the churches from such profanenesse and sinfulnesse as is scandalous to the gospel , and makes the lord weary of his owne ordinances , esay . and wee doubt not but this was in the hearts of many , ( if not most ) of gods servants , to desire a separation of the precious from the vile , in the dispensing of gods ordinances ; and if the charity of some be of larger extent herein then others , this hinders not agreement in the maine . this day hath discovered what kinde of people are to bee found every where in the parishes of england : can light and darknesse , christ and belial agree together ? popish episcopall enemies and haters of all godlinesse and reformation , cleave together in one church of christ , with the saints of god ? yet neither our doctrine nor practise do prescribe and limit the way of attaining this reformation , whereby any should justly from our example stand off from concurring in such a publique worke . it is true , where there is no church relation , but a people are to begin a new constituting of churches , reformation is to be sought in the first constitution . this is our case . but where corrupted churches , ( such as we conceive the congregations of england generally to be ) are to be reformed , there we conceive that such congregations should bee called by able ministers unto repentance for former evills , and confessing and bewayling their sins , renew a solemn covenant with god to reform themselves , and to submit unto the discipline of christ . by which meanes such as refuse so to doe , exclude themselves , and others by the severity of discipline should bee purged out , if falling into sinne they remaine impenitent in the same . what some particular persons may have said or done contrary to this our profession , wee cannot say , nor doe we justifie , but wee know nothing that hath come from us to the contrary , to weaken the hands of godly reformers , or to perswade the people to separate from the congregations , if by any meanes they might attaine ( with toleration of what can be ) the reformation thereof , with the liberty of gods true worship therein . if indeed that cannot bee obtained , but men contradict and blaspheme them , as paul separated the disciples , so wee see no other remedy the faithfull have in such a case . the second stumbling block may be our doctrine and practise about church-government , when wee give discipline as well as other ordinances to particular churches , not subjecting them to any government out of themselves ; but onely to take the brotherly counsell and helpe one of another . but how this should hinder a generall reformation we see not , for if every church so reforme themselves ( as is aforesaid ) and have such officers over them as the rule of the new testament requires , tim. . tit. . wee need not feare to betrust the church ( having such officers ) with that power which we conceive christ hath given to the same , other churches watching over them , counselling and admonishing them in the lord. but if there be not such a reformation of the churches , nor such guides set over them , the power of the keyes in a presbytery of such pastors as may not be according to the rule , may as much abuse them as a particular church may doe , and it may be to the hurt of many who would use them better , in their own congregations , then they can in a classis , being over-voted there . and we cannot conceive but both the care of reforming the matter of a church , and the recalling of the power of government to the church , tends much to further this worke of reformation , no way to hinder the same . and if wee might obtaine that of our deare brethren , which wee humbly crave , viz. that our doctrine and practise might be taken candidly according to our plaine meaning , and declarations , and not represented unto the world under such shapes and formes as make it seeme rigid ( all one with the most rigid separatists , donatists , arminians , socinians , &c. ) we should hope that we shall goe for lovers and friends to a godly and generall reformation , not for disturbers of the same ; but the contrary dealing we meet with too too oft through the mistakes of brethren ; this learned author mr. ball , though in the epistle he desired us to rest assured , that although he had conceived such thoughts of us as leaning to separation , yet he would gladly receive every syllable from us that should dislodge such thoughts , yet against our plaine profession sometime he will needs fasten the opinion of separation upon us , and very frequently sets mr. robinson in a parallel with our opinions , ( as if we generally went that way in those things ) which are well known to be the doctrine of many of our godly and best reformers . the learned may plainly see , how easie it had been for us and upon better grounds to have filled our margents with quotations out of papists and prelates as parallel with many passages of this reply , but we have purposely abstained from so doing , that we might not cast any blur or provoke the spirits of brethren . and seeing we are inforced to wipe off such aspersions , we humbly desire our beloved brethren ( whose learned labours wee honour ) to beare with us if we lightly touch this sore , for wee confesse it brings blushing into our faces , and sadnesse to our hearts , to read so often such harsh imputations cast upon us , which we cannot conceive but ( falling from such pens ) they breed a strange loathing of us in the stomachs of many that read bookes without serious examinations thereof . first , how oft doe wee meet with that imputation , that wee make none members of a visible church but such as are really saints and beleevers , contrary to our frequent profession , that visible saints that are such in judgement of charity are fit matter of the church ? secondly , that we make a vocall church oath or covenant , the essentiall forme of a church , when as wee frequently acknowledge that this covenant which constituteth a church , is either implicite or explicite , and that congregations in england are truly churches having an implicite covenant : and it is far from our practise to use any oath in our covenant , and strange to us to read so many pages against our church oath , and swearing to a covenant , to make our courses horrid and too too rigorous . thirdly , that we set up a popular government , making the elders of the church no more but moderators , &c. and that ministers rec●…ive their power from the people , are their servants , and administer in their name , ( as mr. ball and others object ) when we oft professe the contrary , that all autho●…ity ( properly so called ) is in the hands of the elders , and the liberty of the people is to bee carryed in a way of subjection , and obedience to them in the lord : neither doth it follow from any doctrine of ours , no more then from the ordination of pastors by the presbytery , that they are their servants , &c. fourthly , that if a congregation reject a pastor for no fault , they take both nomen & esse , the name and nature of a pastor from him . for this the reader is referred to our answer of the twenty fift question of the thirty two questions sent unto us , where nothing at all is said , but reference is made to our answer to the nine questions , amongst which the seventh being of this very point , our answer is quite contrary to what is imputed to us . our words are these , concerning the minister himselfe thus deposed , &c. we conceive though hee bee by them deprived of the execution of his ministery amongst them , yet untill hee accept of a call to another people , hee still remaine a minister of christ ; in whose account hee hath true right of administration among the people . now if hee remaine a minister of christ , and have true right to administer , let any judge whether wee take away nomen or esse ; or that wee make church censures worke ex opere operato , clave errante , as is also imputed to us . many such mistakes we finde , but let these suffice to informe the reader how wary hee had need bee in receiving such reports against brethren : and this charity wee have cause the more earnestly to crave of all , that they would reserve one eare to heare what their poore out-cast brethren can say for themselves , because wee are placed at such a distance and disadvantage , that oft-times it is not possible for us to take notice of such objections , and return an answer under a yeare or almost two years , whereby satan hath a marvailous advantage to work strange thoughts and distastefull affections towards us , and fasten them so deeply that hardly they will bee taken off again . but thus it falleth out too too frequently , that when brethren , otherwise deare to each other , differ , in their judgements , and breake out to open contention about the same , they are very apt to make the opinions of the contrary party as unpleasing and absurd to the judgement of others , as may bee , whence griefe , offence , and alienations of affections ( through the subtilty of satan , and the corruption of our hearts ) are ready to follow . and this makes us both fearfull of our selves , lest wee should give way to any unloving thoughts towards the deare servants of christ , or returne any offensive language unto them ; yea , this causeth us oft to bewaile that , which can never bee enough lamented , the sad distances and sharpe contentions between such neare brethren , whom the lord hath so conjoyned in the same cause of reformation . and oh that our deare brethren would beare with us a little here , and give us leave to poure out our humble and affectionate requests and expostulations into their bosomes ! wee would bee very loath to impute any thing to our deare country and beloved brethren that is not evident , or to rip up private failings , and make them publique : but when pulpits and presses proclaime to the world not onely the distances in judgement , but also alienation of affections ; when there is such straining to make the contrary tenents as odious to the world as may bee , such inlarging of differences , as if the wounds could never bee healed ; such gall and vineger poured on , in stead of the salt of savoury speeches , and the oyle of smooth and soft words to calm and pacifie spirits already provoked ; yea , when there want not some that seeke all private letters they can gather up , and search every corner to discover and publish to the world the seeming failings of brethren ; when contentions are grown to that passe , that such orthodox , learned , and godly brethren whose faithfull labours in the lords worke , and great service and use they may be of in time to come , might worthily plead for a roome in the bosomes and inmost affections of their brethren , are cryed out against as not to bee indured in the countrey , because of some difference in some points of discipline : when these things are so , who that have any sense of gods dishonour , or true love to his countreys good , can forbeare from teares , or hold his peace , that have any opportunity to utter his griefe ? wee will not take upon us to say who began this fray , or who have most transgressed the rules of charity and to sedome . the lord give every man an heart that hath failed to bee affected with their owne , and ready to pity and pardon one anothers weaknesses : neither doe wee hereby blame loving and candid debating of differences to finde out the truth ; but give us leave to say thus much to all , ( for our hearts and soules are with all the faithfull servants of christ , that desire according to their light to promote the kingdome of christ jesus , what ever their distance of judgement from us may be ) what , deare brethren , is there no balme in gilead , no physitian to heale this wound ? alasse , how is it now so wide and deep , that at the first was presented to the world so small , or scarce any at all ? when the prelates petitioned for their government , because the reformers were not , nor could ever agree upon one forme : it was professed that in six points ( whereof some are now the greatest bones of contention ) all did agree ; and doubted not but if the prelates were downe , all would agree in one . and was this bare words to put off the prelaticall petition ? or did the author speake without ground at adventures ? god forbid wee should thinke so ; but what the common adversary will think and speak , it would grieve a godly heart to consider . how comes it then to passe the breach is growne so great ? it rejoyced our hearts to see that ingenuous , christian and peaceable disposition in that ever honoured brother mr. herle , who brought the distance in his preface to such a narrow , as if one plaster more might seeme to have healed it ; oh that there had been many more of that peace●…making spirit ! what heart-burnings and contentions had been prevented . wee thought also that meeke apologetick narration gave a faire opportunity of closing with brethren in such things as they professed to concur in , but what contrary entertainment it found , wee lament to consider . and is it now come to this passe , that these who were in a manner one cannot live together in the same kingdome ? oh the depth of the malice and subtilty of that old serpent ! oh the policy and undermining faculty of the jesuiticall generation , ( who no doubt have a great influence in this division ! ) oh the frailties of flesh and blood in gods dearest saints ! oh the unsearchable depths of the lords eternall counsels , that for holy ends leaves his owne to such temptations , and yet knows how , and will assuredly improve all this to his owne glory , and the lifting up of the name and kingdome of christ in despite of all the gates of hell ; and give his servants once a season to sing together this song of moses and of the lambe in triumph over all their enemies . but what ? is the cause past helpe and remedy ? shall we think , alasse , there is no hope , they will not leave untill they have devoured each other , better for us to say nothing , wee shall bee but censured and slighted of all ? god forbid , have wee ventured thus farre , and shall wee not presume a little further ? oh that we were worthy and fit to propound any thing that might tend to mollifie this sore : or that the lord himselfe would speake by such poore creatures any word in season to helpe ( at least a little ) in this sad case ! we will not , deare brethren , make this long epistle more tedious by presenting unto you all that might be said to move and perswade your hearts to study peace and unity , and with one shoulder to set your selves to further this blessed worke of publique reformation , for which the lord hath put such an opportunity into your hands , as never was the like , and god knows , whether ever it will bee , if this bee slipped . wee are perswaded , when the heate of contention is laid aside , the blessed spirit of christ in you doth secretly suggest arguments enough unto your hearts . doe you not oft heare such whisperings as these . are they not brethren who differ from us ? hath not the lord received them ? doe they not stand or fall to their own master , and how shall wee reject or judge them ? have we not our ignorances and frailties ? what , is there no consolation in christ , no comfort of love , no fellowship of the spirit ? or if so , should not this perswade us to bee of one minde in the lord ? doe wee not hope to live in heaven together , and shall wee stand at such distances here ? shall wee thus suffer peace to goe from us , and not follow and pursue it ? shall we lose the blessing of peace-makers ? shall wee by such differences , thus gratifie satan , jesuites , prelates , &c. and strengthen their hands by weakening our owne ▪ are we not in the high-way to devoure each other , and expose all to ruine ▪ is it not high time for us that are one in the orthodox truth , to joyne heart and hand to pray , and preach , and write as one , to stop the floud-gate of errours and abominations that satan hath set open to the drowning of many soules ▪ and the hazzard of many of the sheep of christ , whiles wee are contending about some matters of order which though they bee of moment , yet must give way unto more fundamentall truths ; and oh that this mischief were sufficiently laid to heart ▪ and the dangerous spreadings of such gangrenes looked to in season ! what will not all our vowes , covenants and solemne oaths binde us together ? these and many such heart-breaking considerations wee doubt not are before your eyes daily , which therefore wee will not inlarge . onely give us leave to propound what we conceive in our weake judgement might somewhat tend to heale this distance . wee confesse wee stand farre from the marke , and may misse the matter , but if we doe , let our well-meaning bee accepted , and our weaknesse pardoned . two things , as we touched before , we conceive keep our deare brethren from closing together in one to promote the publique and generall reformation . first , that point of reformation which concernes the members of the churches , and here wee feare the distance at present is great . for when it 's thought , on the one hand , that there is no need of ●…ending godly preachers to the ignorant and prophane parishes to instruct them ; humble them , and prepare them for a gracious reformation , but that pastors ( if they could bee found , should bee sent to them , and minister to them as they are , if they will but joyne in the nationall covenant , as most have done , ( for we see no other required ) and when godly pastors may not have power to try their people whether they can examine themselves , discerne the lords body , and walke according to christ , before they admit them to the lords table , nor may exclude them but upon some scandalous evill , which seemes short of that which even the common-prayer-booke did allow . considering in what a state multitude of parishes are in england , how full of malignants , atheists , prophane wretches , &c. wee must needs acknowledge it will bee very hard for the godly to satisfie their consciences in such church-communion , or godly pastors to minister unto their parishes in such a state , and therefore wee cannot wholly condemn such ministers and people as have been gathered into congregations if there were no hope of remedy in this case . secondly , on the other hand , when some shall gather out of many congregations the most godly and able christians into severed churches , wee must acknowledge it may occasion grief to the ministers of such congregations . but is there no middle way wherein according to god these two might meet ▪ wee suppose there is . if the lord would vouchsafe to help his people in these few things . is it not possible to obtaine of that ●…ver renowned parliament , not onely such liberty for godly pastors , and their churches to debarre from the lords table such as are not qualified according to the former description of the reverend assembly ▪ but also all favour and furtherance from authority to purge out of the church all such according to rule , that live impenitently in any known sinne and scandalous evill ? we cannot doubt but that if brethren would agree with one heart to petition the same , such as have done so worthily many things for purging the house of god , would also promote this needfull point of reformation . if all the godly ministers would joyne as one man , and take unto them the zeale of john bap. thundering out the direfull wrath of god against the pride , vanity , luxury , prophanenesse , and late swarmes of monstrous errors , ( the usuall tares accompanying reformation ) and other sinnes of the time , to lay all levell before the lord ; and with holy calvin , resolve to suffer their hands to bee cut off rather , then to deliver that holy seale of grace to the openly wicked and impenitent sinner ; how would the lord goe out with his servants , and cut downe sin by the sharpe sword of his word , and severity of discipline , if all joyned together ? whereas we feare sin and prophanenesse will out-stare all godly pastors , when they stand so much divided . if these things being obtained and agreed , all godly ministers and christians , which are the salt of the earth , and might by the blessing of god season the congregations wherein they live , they would not cast them off , or withdraw from them , till first by publike and private admonitions and exhortations they had convinced them of sin , and sought by all good meanes their reformation . whereby some no doubt might be gained , and what a blessed worke were that ? and as for others that prove obstinate and impenitent , there would bee just cause of rejecting them from the ordinances and society of the church ; or if this part of the kingdom of christ would not be born in congregations , with how much peace and satisfaction to their owne soules , and to the consciences of all , should such godly ministers and people withdraw themselves from them , to a nearer communion one with another ? and shall wee not hope that england is capable of such a reformation as this , if gods faithfull ministers would with one heart and mind endeavour the same ? farre , farre be it from our deare countrey , after all those notable steps unto reformation , that it should stick in this , which is the life of all the rest . but if it should bee so , that either the great ones should bee too big to stoope downe to the lord jesus in the wayes of his wholsome discipline ; or the multitude so carnall , worldly , wilfull , prophane , impenitent , as not to reforme themselves , families , and so their congregations , humbly submitting to the rule of christ ; or if the ministers ( at least , most of them ) should looke at preferment , honour , credit , riches , authority over the people , and not minde such a work as this is : and this , after all the heavy , humbling , dreadfull judgements of god come upon the land ; after all the glorious out breakings of the light of the gospel in many parts of the kingdome ▪ after all the protestations , covenants , oaths , whereby so many have bound themselves to this particular reformation of themselves , and to further the reformation of the publique ; wee tremble to speake it , but our hearts cannot but feare it , that woe , woe , woe will bee to poore sinfull england . it seemes to us to bee a propheticall speech of mr. bri●●ly ; long since at rest with god , when lamenting the prophanenesse of england , with their connivence at popery , and complyance with the wicked , he saith , that if the lord of hosts doe call for them , ( meaning the popish faction ) to rise up against us in new conspiracies , or open violence , and with them all the crew of wicked and ungodly men , in whom we have so delighted , to take part with those to our destruction , ( as they , it is to bee feared , will be as outragious as the other against all soundly fearing god ) is it not just ? yea if hee should let them make it bellum prodigorum , the day of all the spend-thrifts , and of all the vile persons of the land , to have their fingers in every mans coffers , and their hands washed in the blood of them , whom they have hated , so soon as ever any of the babylonish designes shall take their effect , could wee wonder at it ? and is not this fulfilled in these times ? which wee wish may well bee laid to heart . the second thing which wee conceive may chiefly hinder this closing , is that point of church government , which concernes the power and liberties of particular churches or congregations , and here wee must acknowledge the distance is too great . for 〈◊〉 the one side ▪ ●…ee 〈◊〉 for either by treatises , or by the directory for worship , that congregations are acknowledged to bee compleat churches , especially standing among other churches , or that any power or liberty is given to them to administer church censures , no not so long as they administer rightly according to the rule , but all such power is when indeed from the churches , though in words they are perswaded that it is to strengthen them ; and if this also come down from the catholick church , and so to lesser synods , the greater part having power over the lesse , as it were sure divino , it will 〈◊〉 ●…ore at the liberties and power of particular churches . but what here to say of the distance on the other hand , wee cannot tell , wee see or read nothing , but that our deare and honoured brethren doe freely imbrace communion of churches in consultation synods , for the brotherly helpe of each other , and the weaker churches ; yea , and in a doctrinall way to declare the will of christ , and to threaten his judgements against such as shall refuse wholsome counsell , and withdraw communion from such as wilfully refuse to heare what is propounded according to the minde of christ . and what should we heresay ? but on the bended knees of our soules intreat our reverend brethren to consider what power any o●… many churches can challenge 〈◊〉 another , to require them to give up their right to them , to rule in common , if a sister church purnished with officers shall refuse the same ; or what rule bindeth the churches of an hundred ▪ or any such civill division to come into such a combination with those churches , rather th●…n others , fit but refusing , churches have just reasons to object against such churches , or their officers . we think the more voluntary and free such consociations are , the better . here we shall be hold to propound this one thing , viz. why may not the fifth and sixth articles of agreement publikely professed to the world , in answer to the prelaticall petition ▪ obtaine amongst our brethren , that it may appeare to the disappointment of their hopes , that the treaties being downe , the agreement would be easie ; as is there said . viz. ar. . each particular church hath her owne power and authority , and the use and benefit of all the ordinances of christ , neither is there any thing to be done without the expresse or tacit consent of the congregation , in matters which are proper and peculiar to a particular church , whether in election or ordination of ministers , or in admitting or excommunicating of members . ar. . it is in many respects expedient both for the members of each church , whether ministers or people , and for the right governing and well-being of the particular churches , in a nation professing christian religion , that besides their particular assemblies and elderships , they meet by their commissioners , ministers , and elders in greater assemblies , that matters that concern all the churches within their bounds respective may with common advice and consent be agreed upon for their good and edification . and we hope the lord may yet have such a mercy for england , if the crying sins thereof bee not still impenitently against this glorious shining light of the gospel , persisted in , which wee confesse is our greatest feare , godly brethren wee hope would agree , if englands sins hinder not . we confesse it was the saddest newes that this yeare came unto our eares that the kingdome of christ is hardly like to obtaine , so much jealousie there is , lest the discipline of christ should crosse the licentiousnesse of this age ; yea , that generally there is no more regard of the solemn covenant , especially in personall reformation ; then if it were never made , that many reject the reformations they seemed to desire at the first . these , with other sad things come to our eares , which sadden our spirits . oh england ! england ! our beloved england ▪ wilt thou not be made cleane ▪ when will it once bee ▪ wilt thou still return the lord jesus , ( graciously striving with thee for to save thee ) such an unkind answer , we will not have this man reigne over us ? hast thou not yet learned so much wisdom , as to kisse the son , no not now when he is angry and the sword in his hand ? that voice of god soundeth oft in our eares , when wee thinke of england , put off thine ornaments , that i may know what to doe unto thee ; but for ought we heare , the pride of england did never so much testifie to their faces as now , when sackcloth and ashes were more suitable . the lord humble the hearts of our deare countrey-men , or else wee feare the yoake of christ will never be born , and how the lord jesus will beare and indure that , we tremble to think . but what doe we thus to take upon us , and let loose our pen so far ? pardon , we beseech you , christian reader , this seeming boldnesse , it is our hearty affection to the peace and prosperity of our deare countrey , and the saints of god in it , that have drawn these things from us . say not , what calling have these thus to admonish and censure us ? censure we doe not , ( that we would doe onely to our selves ) but faithfully to admonish and exhort in the lord , we hope we may presume . neither have we taken upon us this whole weighty worke , of our owne minds , but at the request and call of divers our reverend brethren , whose voice herein we looked upon as the voice of god ; nor have wee accepted that call , out of any iust we have to contend , or enter the lists of disputation with any . wee love the peace of the churches , and unity and concord with all our deare and godly brethren too well , to have any such ends . and though wee are not unwilling to receive and consider any returne that may bee made , and we hope with a mind to submit to the truth ; yet wee must professe two things chiefly inclined us to undertake this worke . first , to cleare up such truths as we conceive to bee according to the minde of christ , which were obscured by this reply . secondly , ( and that especially ) hoping that what wee should write , would tend rather to a peaceable healing of offences and differences , then otherwise ; and therefore have presumed to preface thus farre , and so to present these our affectionate requests to our deare brethren , and country-men , which wee heartily recommend to their serious consideration , and to the blessing of god , who onely can incline the hearts of men , to attend to any thing of god set before them ; though wee bee the meanest and weakest of many , to take upon us , thus to speake to our deare country-men , yet through the grace of christ who put us into the ministery , we have bestowed a great part of our labour in these parts , neither ( we hope ) altogether in vaine ; which makes us somewhat the more engaged and encouraged to write as we doe . and now having thus farre in this epistle , and in the booke following , testified our love to the truth , and desires of the peace , unity , reformation , and prosperity of our beloved england , and the churches of god therein , wee commend both to the consideration of the reader , and all to the grace and blessing of christ jesus , and rest . from new-england , novemb. . . tho. allin , tho. shepard . advertisements to the reader . to the epistle of the author of this reply wee say nothing , because it savours ( for the most part ) of love and desire of unity , which we thankfully acknowledge ; onely we cannot but take notice of two passages . a complaint made against some standing affected new-england ward , who have carryed it so , as if a chiefe part of holinesse consisted in separation ; and that therefore some have separated from all private and publique communion there ; others from all publique , but not from private ; others from the sacraments onely , allowing publique communion otherwise . to which wee answer , that as the church fell by degrees into universall pollution , by the apostacy foretold to bee under the man of sin ; so by degrees it recovers it out of it againe : if therefore separation reach no farther then separation from sinnes , and such sinnes of churches wherein our selves in joyning with them must bee involved , wee suppose such separation ( all due respect and love reserved and professed to the churches themselves ) cannot justly bee accounted unwarrantable ; and 't is the profession of the author in his epistle , to plead for communion with the churches of christ , no farther then they hold communion with christ : if any transgresse these bounds , either in respect of private or publique communion in england , wee must professe openly , that if any mourn for it , wee are ( or would bee ) companions with them in that griefe . whose heart bleeds not to see gods flock scattered , and needlesse rents made ? that scarce truth or errour can now adayes bee received , but it is maintained in a way of schisme ; directly contrary to the gathering and uniting spirit of jesus christ : a wide conscience calls evill , good , and therefore can communicate with any evill ; a strait conscience cals good , evill , ( as gerson observes ) and therefore can readily separate even from that which is good . when rash and sudden men are grown masters of their consciences , it troubles not them from whom they divide , nor whither they run in separate wayes ; when weak ( yet godly men ) are under the tendernesse , ( yet much darknesse ) of conscience , being very timorous of wayes that are evill , grow many times shy ( at least in simplicity are led ) from wayes that afterward are found to be lawfull and good . 't is the usuall misery of english spirits , either to spin the spiders web , and swallow down all corruptions in churches ; or so to breake downe the gap in forsaking corruptions utterly to abandon the churches themselves : the wine of causelesse separation hath a spirit in it , ( if god graciously prevent not ) that hurries men headlong to strange distances , that in separating from publique , they separate from private ; in separating from corrupt churches ( as no churches ) they separate from the purest , even those of their own ; in separating from pollutions of gods ordinances , at last they fall to the storming of some , if not to the utter renouncing of all the ordinances themselves : we mourne ( wee say ) for such evills , and could with bended knees desire our deare countrey-men to consider , whether this bee the spirit of christ jesus that so carries them ; to reject them whom the lord jesus hath not yet wholly forsaken ; and not rather with one heart , and with bowells of compassion ( if any liberty can bee procured ) to study how to heale the bleeding breaches , and manifold evills of sick and sinfull england , that in their owne recovery from pollutions , the whole may arise and share alike with them therein ; tolerating with all long-suffering many things amisse , & mourning daily after the lord , till such times come wherein he wil give his people his ordinances , not only in purity , but also in power ; when the lord shall be one , and his name one , zach. . . over all the earth . as for our selves , wee look not upon our departure to these parts to be a separation ( rigidly taken ) but a lawfull secession , or a heavenly translation from corrupt to more pure churches , by the hand of our god ; and how far we allow of separation , the ensuing treatise will declare . the second is , that we dissent one from another as much as others from us , and perhaps the lesser part of us . answ . we confesse we know but little , and that but in part , and therefore if we should say , that in some things we did not dissent , we should not speak the truth , nor say that we were sinfull men ; yet this we must speak to his praise whose we are , and whom we serve with our spirits in the gospel of his son ; that although satan hath been oft busie to make breaches among us , yet the ministers of christ have been hitherto generally ( if not all ) of one heart and mind in the maine and principall things of his kingdom amongst us : and ( which is observed by many ) where ever differences are sown , yet the ministers never disagree : and that although some differences have and doe arise before their convening together , yet they never yet met , but grace hath over-wrestled corruption ; peace , trouble ; and truth , errour ▪ and so have most sweetly accorded in one ; the thoughts of which christ-like peaceablenesse of spirit and love , as it oft sweetens many other sorrows , so we desire to bee spared herein ▪ and that this our crowne may not bee taken from us by such passages , ( suggesting great differences ) as these be . now for the reply it self , we desire the reader to consider ▪ that we had neither time , nor bookes rea●…y at hand to consider some of the quotations made in 〈◊〉 argent ▪ and therfore being such testimonies 〈◊〉 cast not the ballance one way or another , we have passed most of them by with silence . it had also been easie for us to have analysed more orderly the words of the reply , then as they are set downe ; but ( because we would not doe the least wrong ) we have set them down as we finde them in the book ; not every passage ( for that were needlesse ) but those things wherein there seemes to bee any observable matter of dispute between us ; nor are we conscious of doing the author the least wrong in setting down his own words , as hereafter you find them . we confesse , that in sundry of our answers , we have studied not onely to answer to the reply , but have taken in what sundry others godly learned object against our principles , but without mentioning ( scarce any time ) their names , of which we are sparing for no other reason , but because we honour the men from our very hearts , and could wish ( though differently minded from us in some things ) as melanchthon did in another the like case , to live and die in their bosomes . the name of this servant of christ now asleep , is an oyntment poured out and precious to us ; we could therefore have wisht it our portion to have answered the booke without the least reflecting upon him , but the necessity herein is unavoydable . this onely we adde , that whatever weaknesses may passe from us , let them not bee imputed to those servants of christ , that set us on work , and have wanted leisure to review what is here done ; every one may not bee in all things of the same mind with us , for they may meet us in the same end , though they use not the same arguments , or become followers of us in the same path ; yet we know wee are not alone in any thing , but may safely say this much , that what is here defended , is generally acknowledged and received in these churches of christ . a defence of the nine positions . chap. i. concerning the title . whereas it is called a new church-way ; wee little expected that brethren studious of reformation , who have been so exercised with imputations of novelty , would have so readily , and in the frontispice cast the same upon us , who with them desire to walk in the first wayes of our lord jesus christ and his holy apostles ; but as in most substantiall points of church-order , wee goe along with the best reformed churches , so wee doubt not to make it good that wherein wee ( pressing after further reformation ) seeme to differ from them ; yet wee build upon scripture grounds acknowledged by many godly and learned reformers , in our english and other reformed churches ▪ which , if the lord have in mercy given us further ●…ight , ( or rather opportunity to practise ) then they had , let it not bee imputed to us for novelty . a new edition of the old church-way of godly reformers , in some things perhaps corrected and amended , is no new church-way ; or if it be thought the mending of some crooks in the old way make a new way , wee answer with junius in a case not unlike ; vt cunque n●…vam esse vide●…tur , 〈◊〉 quaecunque sunt vetera , fuerunt nova , ac non propter●…a nov●…tat●● nomine vitiosa , nisi forte novam pro renovatâ & restitutâ accipitis ; quo sensu●… novam esse hanc viam agnosci●●● . one thing more in the title page the reader is to take notice of , that whereas it is said , this treatise of mr. ball was penned a little before his death , and sent over . it seemes to bee a mistake of the printer ; for the nine questions themselves were sent over , the answer returned , but miscarrying , another was sent . from which time wee longingly expected a return , but partly for the reason rendred in the epistle , and what else wee know not , wee never in so many yeares received any , till this printed reply by a friends meanes came occasionally to our hands , . concerning the epistle to the reader . whereas the publishers of this treatise impute unto us , or some related to our cause , that we are the volunteers , such as cry up this way , and forward to blow such things abroad in the world , which pressed them to make this controversie publique . wee may truly professe before the world , that our epistle sent with our former answer , proceeded from a spirit of love and peace , with an humble willingnesse to receive further light , by the holy and just animadversions of our reverend and bel●●●d brethren , which wee earnestly expected as men 〈…〉 after the truth . that wee were altogether ignorant of the 〈◊〉 of that our answer ; and in that it was published then , was not without our utter dislike ; wee have neither sounded trumpet , nor struck up drum to any ( if any such ) volunteers , wee heartily grieve that there are any differences between brethren , much more that they should bee published ; most of all , if before they bee privately debated , and brought to some head by mutual consent , are thought fit to be sent out to publique considerations . for our brethren in england , we know no reason to question the truth of that apology of our brother , mr. thomas weld , in his answer to w. r. pag. . obj. . answ . . where he professeth in the name of himselfe and others of our way , a lothnesse to appeare in the case , and that although they had bookes of this subject ready for the presse , yet by joint consent they suppressed them , ( happily to the detriment of the cause ) being unwilling to blow a fire ; and whether they appeared in pulpit or presse without instigation , and how sparingly , hee appeales to all the godly to judge . lastly , wee desire our brethren to consider the date of mr. ball his booke printed for stinted liturgies , ( one chiefe part of this controversie ) and the printed answer to the nine questions , and let that resolve the question , who of us came first volunteers into the field ; and if any through weaknesse , or zeale without knowledge , have been too clamorous to cry up new-england way , with reproach to others ; wee desire the world to take notice , that they have neither patent nor patterne from us so to doe , who came not hither proudly to censure others , but to reforme our owne . chap. ii. qu. . that a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie is unlawfull . reply . this position cannot beare that meaning which you give it , if you take it according to our minds , and the plaine construction of the words . we never questioned why you made not use of a liturgie , &c. answ . let our answer bee viewed , and it will appeare that wee had just cause to premise those distinctions of formes of prayer into private and publike ; and publike into such as are imposed by others , or composed and used by ministers themselves before their sermons ; otherwise we must have involved such in the position , as wee doe not condemn . now if your generall thesis justly admit such limitation to publike imposed formes , where shall wee finde any set stinted imposed liturgies , but in churches of the papacy or prelacy ? no reformed churches stinting or imposing their formes of prayer , but leaving ministers and people at much liberty . onely the english liturgy therefore is such , according to the plaine construction of the words . concerning your minds in the position , wee deny not but you might intend to draw from us an approbation of stinted liturgies in generall , that so you might have to stay the separation of people from your liturgy , whereof you complaine : but by that it appeares plainly , what your chiefe scope and ayme was in the position : according unto which wee thought it most safe and pertinent for us to answer . and this wee did the rather , for our reason mentioned in our letter , because though all of us could not concurre to condemne all set formes as unlawfull , yet wee could in this , viz. that though some set forms may bee lawfull , yet it will not follow , that this of the english liturgy is , therefore to remove all obscurities , and breake all snares , and resolve the question in the true intent of it , wee were forced to distinguish of formes , and so touch the true helena of this controversie ; and therefore if any shall narrowly observe mr. ball his large defence of set forms in generall , they shall finde those wings spread forth in a very great breadth , to give some shelter and warmth to that particular liturgie , then languishing , and hastening ( through age and feeblenesse ) towards its last end . reply . it is true , people separate from our liturgie , because stinted , not because this , or that , or ours in particular . answ . if because it's stinted , then because yours , for we know none properly such , but yours , and it may well bee one offence to all godly consciences , that yours are so imposed and stinted as they bee : though it is hardly credible to us , ( so farre as our observation reach ) that the main causes of the godly withdrawing from your liturgy , should be the stinting of it , when so many corruptions in matter and forme have been objected against it , by the best godly reformers . and seeing the same persons will joyne with prayers of godly preachers , though they use the same forme of prayer usually , and so in a large sense freely stinting themselves thereto , though not properly in such sense as your liturgy is stinted . reply . but say you , such set formes used by preachers are disliked also , and your reasons , especially the two last , why you admit not a stinted liturgie , conclude against both in our understanding . answ . wee deny not but some may dislike the constant use of such formes , especially when studiously framed with elegancy of phrases , and as the manner of some is ; but doe any we now speak of , condemne all use thereof ? or withdraw from them that use them ? which is now the case in hand : for our parts , wee neither know such men ; or if we did , we should condemn such minds . as for our reasons in generall , or the two last you mention in particular , it passeth our understanding to conceive , how any such inference can bee made ; if the reply had formed the inferences from our arguments , it may bee wee should have seene more by the helpe of such spectacles . but passing over what we say to the position , as we interpret it , you think fit to advertise us of some things , which are six . reply . advert . . your reasons why you accept not a stinted liturgie , are ambiguously propounded , and so , that such as looke at stinted liturgies as images , forbidden command . . may easily draw your words to their meaning . answ . if our reasons themselves being sound , and unanswered by you , contain any thing that may be drawn to such a position ; that cannot arise from the ambiguousnesse of words which are plaine , but from their abuse who mis-apply them . reply . advert . . the reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer , doe hold as strong against a set forme of catechisme , confession and profession of faith , blessing , baptizing , and singing of psalmes . answ . concerning forms of catechismes , and confessions of faith , if religiously and perspicuously framed , wee account them of singular use , ( though abused by men ) nor without some sacred allowance : yet from hence to infer the like use of set formes of prayers , neither our reasons , nor any other will in force : for catechismes and confessions ( as well as psalmes ) in the nature of the thing , require in some sense a set and limited forme ; but publike prayers , though they may admit of a set and comely order in the generall , to prevent errour ; yet of their owne nature they require no set forme ; for god gives us no new matter or doctrine daily to be beleeved , but he gives new matter of new affection in prayer daily . if by set forms of catechismes and confessions , bee meant ( according to the termes of the question ) stinted formes , like stinted liturgies , i. e. beyond , or short of which , ministers may not teach , or christians beleeve and professe , then wee should say the same of these as wee doe of stinted formes of prayer ; wee confesse there is danger in casting by all formes of confessions and catechismes , lest through the instability of ungrounded and heady men , pretending new light , or searching after further light , the churches adhere to nothing : and their faith ( as the learned leyden professors terme it ) become fides horaria , or menstrua , the faith of an houre or moneth , and then cast it off the next . and on the other side there is danger , that by imposing such confessions too far , that which is indeed further light be supprest ; wee therefore thinke it usefull and needfull to pave out such high wayes of catechismes and confessions , so as the subjects of christ jesus our king and law-giver may walke therein without shackles , reserving liberty for further future light , in points lesse cleare , yet standing in a readinesse alwayes to confesse and hold fast the present truth which appeares most cleare . concerning forms of blessing , baptizing , singing scripture psalmes , there is a far differing reason from this case , for the lord himselfe hath left us formes in these cases , not onely for instruction , but allowing the use of the same , as numb . . , &c. luke . . matth. . . chron. . . and therefore such may bee used as hee hath left ; yet the lord hath not imposed ( some of these at least ) to bee used alwayes and onely in his churches , much lesse doth hee allow any man to impose their own forms upon his churches , or conforme to such as are tyrannously imposed . reply . third advert . we have not called you at this time to witnesse for , or against the corruptions of the common-prayer-book , this you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands . answ . wee have spoken to this before , and we thinke whatsoever your intent and desire was , yet the nature of the thing , and the case it selfe gave us a just call to testifie against it , especially seeing the corruptions then increased in england , and the impositions were more rigid and violent . reply . the reasons you bring against the communion-booke , wee cannot approve them all ; the exceptions against it wee know , but to esteem the whole for some corruptions found therein a monument of idolatry , that we have not learned . answ . the answer calls it not a monument of idolatry for some corruptions onely found in it , though the corruptions in matter and manner , bee objected as the first reason why wee used it not ; but being never commanded of god , greatly abused unto idolatry and superstition , and of no necessary use , the same that was in popery for substance , which are the usuall arguments for abolishing images , ceremonies , and all monuments of idolatry ; and wee marvaile how any could passe over these things in the answer which might evince it to bee a monument of idolatry , as the argument of the abridgement to which we referred , doth prove . reply . the argument in the abridgement used against conformity to the ceremonies , did not in the judgement of the authors hold against the liturgie , of which judgement we are . answ . it matters not whether they saw so far , and so judged , if indeed the reason and nature of ceremonies , and the book be the same ; for the first reformers thought their arguments strong against oyle , creame , and spittle , &c. in baptisme , but saw not that they would hold against the crosse , surplice , &c. as well ; yet we doubt not but the reverend author did judge of all in the same manner ; and so it is in this case . reply . advert . . if these reasons bee intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration , it is that which wee are perswaded you know we never required of you , if to disallow the use of the book amongst us altogether in things lawfull , good , and pertinent , they will not hold weight . answ . wee were told in the first epistle of our reverend and deare brethren , that whiles wee lived in england , wee joyned in the same ordinances and purity of worship , and therefore wee might have some just cause to cleare up our differing practise from disusing that forme of administration there , considering that our differing practise might occasion others to rend off from your administrations there , whereof your complain . we doubt not but in the popish forms of masse , matten , and evensong , &c. some things lawfull , good , and pertinent may bee found , yet would not the godly allow these very reasons wee alledge in the answer sufficient to refuse the whole forme , and so those good and lawfull things in that forme ? as that they are devised by men , without the command of god , imposed by an antichristian power , abused to idolatry and superstition , wherein the people place much holinesse , and necessity , full of scandall , &c. and if these reasons do not hold against this forme in the communion booke , the reply should have acquited it from them : or else the consequence must bee yeelded in this case , as in the other , notwithstanding all the good and pertinent things therein . john simpson , and john ardly martyrs in q. maries dayes , and faithfull witnesses , made answer to the sixt article of bonner , concerning the masse , that 't is of the pope , not of christ , and therefore not good , not having in it any goodnesse , saving gloria in excelsis , the epistles and gospels , the creed and pater noster ; and for this cause ( they said ) they have not , nor will not come to heare masse : the same answer was made by six more in those dayes , mentioned by mr. fox . if therefore corrupt formes may bee used because of some things good and lawfull mixt with them , there should have been shewn us some proofe for it , but if the meaning bee , that there may bee a lawfull use of those things which are lawfull and good in it : wee say so too , ( due circumstances of their use being observed ) but then wee fall off from the question between us ; otherwise wee know that things lawfull and good in themselves , yet ( not duly circumstantiated ) may be evill and scandalous in their use . heare what paul saith , it was lawfull for paul to eate some kindes of meat , yet if it maketh my brother offend , i will eate no flesh whiles the world standeth , cor. . . heare what the authors of the second admonition to the parliament say , in queen elizabeths dayes , the booke of common-prayer , which of all others must not bee touched , because they have gotten the state to beare it out , yet hee hath but a bad conscience , that in this time will hold his peace , and not speake it for feare of trouble ; knowing that there are such intolerable abuses in it : if there were never an ill word or sentence in all the prayers , yet to appoint it to bee used , or to use it , as the papists did their mattens and evensong , as a fit service to god , though the words bee good , yet the use is naught . but if this seem too sharpe , heare what — a late godly and learned writer speakes , rejicimus illas precum , cultusque publici formulas , quae tyrannide quâdam , conscientiis hominum , ut cultus divini partes essentiales impo●…untur ; quamvis quoad materiam sunt legitime dispositae , quoad formam & modum tamen quo inducuntur , illegitima crudelitatis instrumenta fiunt , & praetextus improbae malitiae & occasiones violentae tyrannidis in dignissimos & optimos ecclesiae filias . reply . advert . . you are generally ( you say ) loath to med●…le with the affaires of other churches , unlesse necessarily called thereunto : but when some upon request ( as we suppose ) of private friends , and others out of their zeal and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separate from the sacrament , because ministred in a stinted liturgie , wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie ; the ●…ent is wide , and some brethren had their hands deep therein , which made us crave your judgements and the reasons thereof , to make up the breach . answ . what you impute to some , if justly , wee grant will not allow this apologie to bee generall for all ; but how many that some is , or who we know not , it may bee one or two ; and if so , one or two exceptions will not much infringe a generall rule , nor hinder this generall apology . if such brethren had a necessary call to speake or write what they did , it hindreth not our apologie at all : the desire of private friends , which you onely suppose the moving cause , might bee very weighty , the satisfying of tender consciences of neare friends , or such as once depended upon our ministery , in such a time of pressing humane inventions upon men , as that was ; might bee a very urgent call to interpose : but that any have endeavoured out of zeale to draw many to separation from the sacrament , upon such a ground as you say ; as we utterly dislike such fire upon the top of the house , so it must be proved , before we can call to minde or acknowledge any such thing . reply . advert . . j. d. object to mr. p. that his manner of preaching ( proceeding it should be ) was disorderly , in carrying to the classis a matter , before hee had declared it to the church , &c. and may not we with like reason object that this manner of proceeding is disorderly , in seeking to draw men to separation , because of a stinted liturgie , before you had shewed us or other brethren , whom it may concren , by scripture , or reasons that a stinted liturgie is unlawfull ? answ . what j. d. objects , wee cannot tell , seeing you neither quote the place , nor the printer give us his words in any way to make sense ; but so far as we guesse at the meaning , the case is very wide from this in hand . j. d. might justly complaine of wrong offered to him and the church , in neglecting them , to goe immediately to the classis , and yet some of our brethren , at the requests of tender consciences , might declare their judgement , when no rule called them to write to their pastors , which perhaps , were bitter persecutors , or if better , yet such as they had no knowledge of ; and if any by such writings did abstaine from the sacrament for such corruptions , as their consciences would be defiled with , no hinderance from us was in the way , but that you might call them to account before the church , and convince and censure them , if there were just cause ; which was the objection against mr. p. in flying presently to the classis . chap. iii. position . that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments , where a stinted liturgie is used : or , as wee conceive your meaning to bee in this as in the former , &c. viz. where and when that stinted liturgie is used . reply . if we mistake not your judgement and practise both , you have born witnesse against both that you call the rigid separation , and this more moderate also ; and wee humbly wish that the moderate doe not degenerate into the rigid ere long ; it is very strange if they take not great encouragement upon your grounds . answ . if you will needs account not joyning in that stinted imposed liturgy , to bee a moderate separation , wee must confesse , we have witnessed against such separation ; yea , not onely conformed to that corrupt worship , but also to divers of the ceremonies thereof , some of us with shame before the lord may confesse it : but we desire that may be no prejudice to the truth since discovered to us : but wee have ever conceived , that the separation witnessed against , both by your selves and us , have been such as to separate from the churches of england as no true churches , the ministery , as no true ministery : their separations from corruptions in doctrine and worship , their endeavour to enjoy all the ordinances of the lord jesus in purity , if wee bee not mistaken , your judgement and practise with ours , have alwayes approved ; and the question now in hand is not about a new kinde of separation more moderate , from the churches and ministery of england ; but whether the liturgy of england be not indeed one of those corruptions in worship , which you and wee had need reject , as well as the ceremonies , and no longer conforme to the same . and wee heartily wish that the growing endeavours of the godly , after more purity of worship , and to bee purged from all the pollutions of the man of sinne , bee not too rashly branded with the odium of separation : and breach of peace and unity of the church . as for degenerating into the rigid separation , wee think you need not feare it , upon our principles , no more then upon the common grounds of non-conformists , and you know what they inferre upon those principles , now justly it concernes you to consider , as well as 〈◊〉 ; but as it is truly observed in england , it was the justification and pressing of ceremonies and other corruptions , that drave many to separation , not the endeavour of further reformation ; so you may feare , the too too much conformity of ministers to humane impositions , and justification of the liturgie , &c. have and will more dangerously alienate godly minds from your churches and ministery , and so drive to separation ; then all the principles and progresse of the godly in wayes of reformations : and wee shall refer it to the judicious and common experience , whether the discovery of the corrupt worship in the liturgy , or contrary conformity to it , be the greater block of offence , and strengthens the hands of the separatists most , which yet you after object unto us . wee suppose the worthies of this renowned parliament , together with those of the reverend assembly , would not so soone have removed the whole frame and fabrick of this book , nor wholly stopped up this pit , if building of battlements about it , and keeping watchmen neare it , to bid passengers take heed , had been the readiest way to cure separation : nor doe wee thinke that this reverend man of god , would have been in more jealousie and feare of us ( if hee had considered how tenderly we returned our answer to the question ) then of those faithfull witnesses in scotland , who separated their lives into the hands of death , rather then communicate in the use of this booke ; and yet wee thinke they deserve a better place , then to bee ranked so neare to the rigid separation ; notwithstanding for our selves we are heartily thankfull for what he humbly wisheth , and for his jealousie over us so farre as it is godly ; but so farre as such wishes cast a cloud of evill suspition over us in the hearts of others , as if we were going faster then we knew where to stay , we wish humbly such words had been spared till some other time . concerning this distinction , a letter of this subject is cited , printed without the authors knowledge , that put a difference indeed between the reasons of the separatists proper to them qua tales , and other reasons used by himself , common to others studious of reformation . to which we answer . that letter acknowledgeth no such distinction of separation , rigid , and moderate , onely ( if you will ) a separation from churches , and separation from the sins and corruptions of churches , which latter is all we professe . those reasons which the letter ascribes to them , qua t●…les , will wee suppose bee found in their books thus farre , that the prayers , preachings , sacraments , &c. are unlawfull , because offered in a false church by a false ministery for the subjects of antichrists kingdome . that there should be no separatists in the world , because none , it is said none ▪ plead against the booke of common●…prayer as unlawfull , because offered up in a false church ; is strange to us , that this learned author should not read or observe the same , exceeding frequently in the separatists writings ; take but a taste in the first pages of mr. smith against bernard in his parallels , censures , and observations , his words pag. . are these , hee would prove that an erroneous constitution of a church , is a reall idol ; and the prayers they offer with the prayers of the wicked , comming from that false constitution , are tainted with the idolatry of that constitution . and pag. . it is idolatry to offer up service to god in a church of a false constitution . and pag. . tell mee mr. bernard ▪ can there be a true ministery , true baptisme , true faith , true prayer , true preaching and administring the supper , true excommunication , in a church which is falsly constituted ? did the lord accept the sacrifice of the church constituted by jeroboam ? so page . a church falsly constituted , is not accepted of god , neither are their actions ecclesiasticall , as prayer , preaching , &c. acceptable in the sight of god. and againe , a false ministery , worship , government , may bee in a true church , through ignorance , and the like : but a true ministery , worship , government cannot possibly bee in a false church . we thinke it needlesse to recite more testimonies ; aliquando honus dormitat homerus , a good memory may sometimes fall asleep , and not see that , which is sometimes most obvious and visible . but what other arguments they have , are , or may bee common to others studious of reformation ; as their arguments against ceremonies are common with non-conformists , and therefore if some of our grounds bee found in them , it doth not follow , they are ●…afts taken out of the same quiver , and peculiar to them , as you object . reply . these reasons shall be common to all , that plead for the purity of gods ordinances , which were never taken to bee sound and true , either by the reformed churches abroad , or by the godly brethren at home , dead or living , or yet by the most of the brethren amongst whom they live , and ●…old society , or by any minister and society holding the unity of the spirit in the hand of peace , th●…se ▪ years and upward , unlesse within these few dayes , and that by a few onely . answ . here is a great colour of novelty and singularity objected to be in the grounds and reasons of the letter , used against conformity to the liturgy : but it is easie to conceive that the same common grounds of all reformers , may be justly carryed on against such further corruptions , as they never ●…aw : not attending their owne principles in such particulars , as was said before of the first reformers , that purged out salt , creame , oyle , &c. not the crosse , &c. and so here it may fall out , that as the lord is pleased to let in more light in this or that particular corruption ; so upon common grounds it is rejected , though yet but one or few apply those grounds to such a particular case . neither here was the number so few as is pretended , when this reply was drawn up , or else at least , it is much increased of late time , since the assembly and parliament in england have so openly in their directory witnessed against such stinted formes , and generally the churches of scotland renounced that liturgy of yours , as a piece of popery . besides all the orthodox churches in new-england , and holland , and many godly in england . reply . as yet wee thinke most of them , that have separated are not so farre gone , as to condemne all our assemblies as no churches of christ . answ . by this you seeme to insinuate , that notwithstanding our acknowledgement of your churches and ministery , wee may justly bee accounted amongst those wee properly call separatists : but it is but your thought of most of them , without ground , contrary to their generall profession in their publique confessions and apologies . and therefore we see no reason of it , or that it toucheth us ; but passing these generalls , let us come to the matter more particularly . reply . your judgement concerning the position , you deliver in three propositions ( for so many they bee for substance ) in respect of the persons reading the liturgie , or the thing in selfe that is read ; as if any part of the liturgie be read ( put case some few select prayers onely ) by an unable and ungodly minister , it is unlawfull ( say you ) for the people to joyne in that case . but if unlawfull for the people to joyne , when an ungodly minister readeth some few select prayers , it is either in respect of the minister , or the prayers themselves ; not of the prayers themselves , for they be select and choyce , faultlesse , in respect of matter and manner , 〈◊〉 is taken for granted ▪ unlesse th●… distribution bee is no purpose ; if in respect of the minister ; then it is not lawfull to joyne with such an one , in any ordinance of god whatsoever . in that you analyse our two propositions into three , we shall not contend , but follow your method , yet wee cannot but marvaile at the liberty that is taken in stating the first proposition , both leaving out and adding such things as will not stand with the termes in our answer ; and indeed this is too frequent in divers places of this reply , which gives a great colour of strength unto the arguments ; but when they come to be scanned , it will discover the impertinency of them . for , although the answer distinguisheth of the liturgie , either of the whole , or of some select prayers which may bee conceived to bee lesse offensive , yet the application of this of select prayers , is onely made in the second proposition of the answer , no way intended in the first . neither doth the answer confesse those prayers , as you say , to bee choyce and faultlesse for matter and manner , but which may bee conceived lesse offensive . whereas the proposition is of an unable and ungodly minister , such unlearned idol-priests that are countenanced and established by the liturgie , and can doe no more then read the same , to the unspeakable hazard and ruine of a multitude of soules ; you carry along your arguments onely in the terme of an ungodly minister , which leaves out one chiefe ground of our proposition , viz. unable . to reduce therefore this proposition unto its true state which the answer puts it in , which is thus , if the question bee of joyning in prayer with , and when that whole liturgie is read , or where that which is used , ( viz. though not the whole ) is read by an unable and ungodly minister : wee see not how it can bee lawfull to joyne , &c. where that which is read by an unable and ungodly minister , cannot have reference to the select prayers , but onely was put in , to reach the whole case , lest any should say , may we not joyne , therefore if they read not all , ( as sometimes such doe not , for haste to the alehouse , beare-baitings , &c. ) and the case is so well known to our selves and others , what the manner of such priests is , how farre they are from making any choyce of select prayers : or having any skill indeed so to doe ; that if any bee more superstitious then others , they would soonest choose them ; so that it was farre from our thoughts to impute it to them , to read the select prayers onely . the question being rightly stated , the argument will halt very much ; for wee say , it is unlawfull in both respects , and the rather , when jointly considered ; and therefore you should first have justified the whole liturgy , or so much as such idol-priests use to read to bee lawfull , and also the standing and calling of those men , before the argument can hold , both which you have wholly left naked without proofe , and argue onely about the lawfulnesse of joyning with an ungodly minister in the ordinances of god , which will not reach this case . if one should affirme it is unlawfull to goe to mattens or evensong , when the whole is read , or that which is read , 〈◊〉 done by a popish priest , and you should answer then , it is either because of the prayers or the priest . not the first ; for the prayers ( if select ) may bee good , and faultlesse , and not because of the priest , for then wee may never joyne with an ungodly minister in the ordinances of god : the answer would bee very imperfect and impertinent , and just so it is here in the frame of the reason , though the corruptions in that service and this be not alike we grant . but before wee answer to the second part of your dis-junction , let us consider a little here once for all , the act of the people in joyning with the reading of this liturgy , or so much of it , as is read usually by such idol-priests . first , concerning the liturgy it selfe , if you respect the matter and forme , or manner of it , it would bee too tedious to rip up , what for matter hath been objected by the godly reformers . consider but two things objected strongly by mr. cartwright against the forme or manner of it . first , that it is taken out of the popish masse-book , concerning which hee affirmeth , that although there were nothing in it unlawfull , or against the word of god , ( which saith hee ) i wish there were not , yet no word of god , no reason , nor example of the ancient churches , jewish or christian , will permit us to use the same formes and ceremonies ( viz. with papists ) being neither commanded of god , nor such as there may not bee as good as they , and rather better established , yea , considering how neare the papists live amongst us , it were more safe to conforme to the ceremonies of the turks that are farre off . and this hee speaketh of the forme of liturgy , as well as ceremonies , cartw. reply to whitgifts answer to the admonition to the parliament , pag. , . and although you seeme to make light of this objection , after page . end , yet in a like case , when whitgift had said , it is not materiall that deanes , canons came from the pope ; cartwright replyeth thus ; it is as if hee had said , it skilleth not , if they came out of the bottomlesse pit ; for whatsoever commeth from the pope , who is antichrist , comes first from the devill , cartw. reply , pag. . secondly , hee objecteth that absurd manner of chopping and interrupting the prayers , of which mr. cartwright saith , that if any man should make such a supplication to a prince , he would thinke him to make his supplication before hee knew what to ask , or that hee had forgotten some piece of his suit ; or that he were distracted in his understanding . much more might bee added , but wee have onely touched this sore , and in the words of that learned and zealous reformer , that it may appeare , neither the opinion of that booke , nor the reasons against it , are so new or proper to the separatists , as is pretended . now what comfort can any godly conscience have to joyn in , or conform unto such a form of worship as this is ? further consider the administration of the sacraments , according to the book ( as we speak still of joyning in it ) who knows not , that such must subject their children to that grosse idol of the crosse , and see and approve the pollution of gods ordinances with the same : and at the lords table joyne in that idolatrous gesture of kneeling ; and therefore how the godly can joyn lawfully in the whole , or such parts as those idol-priests dispense , let all non-conformists judge ; and it is well knowne , how superstitiously precise such are , in pressing all conformity to every gesture and ceremony prescribed in their booke , which they so idolize , as they have good cause , being that which maintaines them . secondly , if wee consider the imposition hereof by the prelates and late strict pressing thereof upon the people to be present and conforme fully to it , as well as upon ministers to use it . the very yeelding of conformity thereto , doth miserably cast away the liberty purchased by christ to his churches , inthrall the churches to antichrist , and lift up the power of antichrist in his tyrannous usurpations upon the churches of christ . thirdly , we might adde the dangerous consequences and scandals that follow from admitting this liturgy , which being touched in our answer to the first position , we here passe over . these things considered , it appeares , not onely that there was need to disprove the first part of your disjunction , which you declined in stating the question ; but also the truth of the position it selfe is confirmed . now let us consider your proof of the second part of your disjunction ; which is thus , reply . if in respect of the minister , then it is not lawfull to joyn with such on one in any ordinance of god. for if the minister make it unlawfull , then all communion in any part of gods worship with such ministers is unlawfull : and so the churches in all ages of the world , the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles , and the faithfull in the primitive church , 〈◊〉 in holding communion with such , whe●● the priests were dumbe dogs , &c. but we never read that the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles did ever forbeare themselves , or warne the faithfull not to communicate with such in the ordinances of worship . our saviour charged the disciples to beware of the leaven of the scribes and phariseas , but never forbad them to communicate with them in the ordinances of god. answ . to this we answer ; first , that if you speake to the case in hand of those unable and ungodly ministers of england , readers ( as they are called ) of the common-service , wee grant it is not lawfull to communicate in a stated way with them , in any ordinance of worship properly ministeriall ; in any act that private persons may performe , wee may communicate with them , but not in ministeriall worke , as sacraments ; for although being imposed on any church as ministers , and so received by them , their ministeriall acts are not a nullity ; yet if wee speake of the lawfulnesse of such their act of receiving them , then the church sinneth in choosing them , or being imposed , in receiving them , and submitting to their ministery , being such as are utterly contrary to the rule of christ , and rejected of him . and by the like reason the godly sinne in receiving sacraments , &c. from them , as ministers of christ , knowing they intrude into that office , and have no authority by the rule of christ so to doe . wee may heare a private gifted christian prophecy , but if hee intrude without a lawfull calling into the ministery , we may not receive him , nor approve of him therein . cyprians speech is commonly noted , that plebs maxime habet potestatem vel eligendi dignos sacerdotes , vel indignos recusandi ; yet the occasion of it is not so generally observed , which is this , plebs obsequen●… praeceptis dominicis , deum me●…uens , à peccatore proposito separare se debet , nec se ad sacrilegia sacerdotis sacrificia iniscere , cum ipse maxime habet potestatem eligendi , &c. that is , the people observing divine precepts , and fearing god , ought to separate themselves from a wicked minister , neither joyne themselves to the sacrifices of a sacrilegious priest , seeing they chiefly have power of choosing worthy ministers , and rejecting unworthy . secondly , wee see no demonstrative argument that the priests and pharisees were wholly unable for the worke of those times , as these wee speake of are for — : though the priests , esay . . were dumb dogs that cannot barke ; yet it seemes by the place to be meant actually , rather then habitually , through their slumbering or security there mentioned , not telling the people of their sinnes , nor warning them of judgements , rather then of their totall inability . men of good parts and able gifts may be actually such dumb dogs , as seldome preach , or never to purpose , and bee spiritually ignorant through much prophanenesse , yet not totally deprived of common gifts : it is most evident that the pharisees were blinde , yet taught the people , and hence the disciples were permitted to heare them ; but what is this to the question , which is of unable , as well as of ungodly ministers ? thirdly , suppose some of the priests and levites were unable , yet the ministery of the old testament was limitted by god himselfe to the tribe of levi , and that by succession , which is farre otherwise in the new testament , being left to the churches election , and therefore they had no power to reject them , or withdraw from them , when they had ministred the ordinances of god. fourthly , suppose some of them were not called of god , being not lineally descended of that tribe , yet those things wherein the faithfull , christ and his apostles , and others did communicate with them , were necessarily commanded of god , viz. sacrifices , offerings , &c. in the temple , which seale of god we see not stamped upon this liturgy in question , to make it currant . and thus peter martyr answereth in the like case , that though there were many pernicious doctrines taught by scribes , pharisees and wicked priests , yet sacrificandi ritus , &c. the rites of sacrificing were not changed ; for the same oblations were offered , which the law commanded , and therefore the saints might use them , having the word of god conjoyned with them . fifthly , what you grant concerning christ his warning his disciples to take heed of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , no doubt hee did the like , concerning the corruptions of the priests in their administrations of gods ordinances , and wee doubt not , but you will acknowledge that the prophets and apostles did or ought to abstaine from all actuall communion with those corruptions , and the lord jesus out of question did abstaine : which being so , wee may retort this argument thus in regard of conformitie to ceremonies , if it bee not lawfull to partake in the ordinances of god , where wee must actually joyne with such ceremonies , then christ , the prophets and apostles must not have joyned in any ordinance of god in severall ages of the church , when worse or as ill corruptions were admixed with that worship : but they never refused the ordinances of worship for such corruptions ; therefore wee should not now for these ceremonies abstaine ; put case for kneeling at the lords supper , &c. if you please to solve this knot , the same answer will serve our turne as well . reply . it is not for private christians to withdraw themselves from the ordinances of worship , and communion of the church , because such are permitted to deale in the holy things of god , whom they judge or know unfit ; when men joyne in the worship of god with unworthy ministers , they doe not countenance them , their place and office , but obey the commandement of god , who requires their attendance upon his highnesse in that way and meanes . answ . first , wee grant it is not alwayes for private christians so to leave the communion of a church in the ordinances of god , for such a reason , but if they have first done their part according to their place to reforme or cast out such an unworthy and unable ministry , and cannot , or see no hope to procure one sufficient to edifie the church , hee may and ought to betake himselfe to some other church , where hee may bee edified , and it is a great mistake to thinke , ( in the constitution of the gospell ) that a christian cannot reject all fellowship with such idoll priests , but hee must forsake the ordinances of christ , or rent off from the church , when indeed hee deprives himselfe of many ordinances in joyning with them ▪ and attaines them in forsaking of them . secondly , if we consider wherein the outward call of all church officers in the new testament lies , viz. in a great part in the choice of the church , or at least in their after consent and receiving of them , being chosen by others for them , act. . and . and . how can any godly man receive , submit unto , or acknowledge such unable wretches by receiving gods ordinances from them , as ministers , but they must needs countenance them in their places , and set up to themselves an idoll or meanes of worship to edifie themselves , which god never appointed ; for let it bee proved that ever god appointed readers of a liturgie to edifie the people . answ . thirdly , but that to joyne in worship with such should bee to obey gods command , who requires attendance upon himselfe in that way and meanes , wee thinke it a speech not so throughly digested , if wee carry in our eye the case now in hand , concerning these idoll priests and silver shrines . for where can they shew any such command ? or why hath it been suffered by any of our brethren , that the godly living under such priests , have been so frequently absent from them , reading the liturgy , to heare their sermons ? nay why have they not told them , they were bound to attend upon god in hearing their sir john read at home ? wee appeale to all consciences , whether they would approve of any godly man , that would rest in such meanes , and not call him to leave all his outward conveniences , for some godly able ministry : or at least not to attend on them , but get where they may bee better edified . reply . to goe no further then the text you quote , hosea . , . because thou hast despised knowledge i have rejected thee ; properly the text speaketh of the ten tribes and the priests amongst them , who worshipped the calves , &c. whom the lord threatens to reject ; but neither this nor any other text proves , that people joyning in worship with such , doe countenance them in their places . answ . the text proves that god rejects such priests as these are , ( just like jeroboams priests of the meanest of the people ) and that was all it was alledged for , and that receiving such as ministers doth countenance them in their places , was proved before . and if it bee meant of jeroboams priests , as you say , the approved practise of the godly in those dayes , chron. . . will well justifie and lead us to reject and leave these also . secondly , there seemes to bee foure arguments , why the people should withdraw from these kind of priests : first , in regard of their miserable perishing for want of knowledge by their meanes . secondly , because the people in receiving them , rejected knowledge , as calvin notes upon the place . thirdly , because god would take a time to disburthen the church of them , whence drusius in locum wisheth , utinam tales hodie à ministerio a●…verentu●… . fourthly , because the lord would cast off their children from being his , for this sinne , as calvin also notes upon the place ; the promise of shewing mercy to a . generations , being chiefly annexed to the observers of the second command , and the instituted meanes of worship , which those priests never were . reply . on the contrary , if you will extend this text to all unworthy ministers of what sort soever , whom the word of god condemns , as not approved ministers of god , &c. answ . wee intended no other sorts then such as wee have in hand , the unable and ungodly idoll priests of england , and therefore this discourse concernes us not . for wee freely confesse , that it is lawfull in divers cases , at least for a time , to communicate with such unworthy ministers as may bee contained in your description : but that people must and ought to joyne with such in the worship of god , and sinne , if they separate from the ordinances , ( as you say ) the scriptures alledged teach not this so evidently , that wee can see , as sam. . , . . . that imputation , verse . they make the lords people to transgresse , doth . not depend immediatly on verse , . . but on verse . . where they are charged to have layne with the women , the other passages being interrupted by the story of samuel and his mother , verse , . , . so jer. . , . micah . , . containe onely threats against wicked ministers , but not a word to prove people ought to joyne with them , &c. phil. . . speaking of such as preach and preach christ , though not of sinceritie , doth not reach such ministers as the word condemnes : for many such may be approved ministers by the word , having a call according to the same ; but wee shall not contend in this case , wherein wee doe not dissent , so that christians bee left to their lawfull libertie of withdrawing from ministers grossely wicked , and teachers of false doctrin , or idle and unsufficient , when they cannot reclaime them , or remove them in the use of all lawfull meanes within their power . reply . the reasons whereby the ancient churches condemned the donatists and catharists for their voluntary and seditious separations , and the moderne churches condemne the anabaptists for their renting from the body of christ , will hold against separation from the prayers of the congregation , because they are read by an ungodly minister . wee deny that wee teach or hold such separation , because read by an ungodly minister , as is sufficiently shewed before ; but what we speak is against conformitie to and communion with the corruptions of the liturgie especially used by an unable as well as ungodly minister , and therefore the arguments mentioned will hold against our proposition , just as the accusations and imputations of donatisme , puritanisme , anabaptisme , which the prelates cast upon all non-conformists and men studious of reformation , will hold and fasten upon them , which is nothing at all . reply . the second proposition , where the whole liturgie is used though by an able and godly minister , it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer in that case ; wee cannot bee of your judgement herein , for in the times of the prophets , and our saviour christ as great abuses no question were found , &c. but they never taught people to separate from the holy things of god. answ . first , wee must still mind the reader of the true and full state of the question , which in our answer is of joyning in prayer , with , and when that whole liturgy is used , and hee that joynes with that whole liturgie must needs bee supposed to have actuall communion with all the corruptions thereof what ever they bee , and therefore though this proposition reach to the practise of able and godly ministers , yet let none thinke wee plead herein separation from their ministery , but onely that people may not conforme with them to any corruption in worship , and by this proposition also the author might easily have seene that wee denied the other ( which was woven in with this ) not because of the ungodlinesse of the minister alone as hee carried his dispute , but chiefly in respect of the corruptions of the worship , together with the unlawfulnesse of such a ministery that is both unable and ungodly . secondly , concerning the argument it runs as full for conformitie to all the corrupt ceremonies of the booke as the corrupt worship it selfe therein , as was said before , cleare the one , viz. non-conformitie to ceremonies , shew a reason why you will separate from the sacrament , because you will not kneele according to the booke , and you answer your argument here alledged against us : but the reply proceeds . reply . and if presence at formes of prayer bee not lawfull by reason of the corruptions alledged , there can bee no visible societie named , since . yeeres after christ or thereabout , wherein a christian might lawfully joyne in prayer , reading the scriptures , hearing the word , or participation of the sacraments ; their doctrines , prayers , rights being lesse pure then ours : but no man wee hope will bee so bold as to affirme the state of the churches within . yeers after christ to bee so miserably decayed that the faithfull could not without sinne hold communion with them in the foresaid ordinances of god. answ . first , this argument holds as strongly for conformitie to the ceremonies as to the whole booke of common prayers , as was said before . secondly , this is a dangerous kind of reasoning from the practise of the faithfull in corrupt times of the church , especially when they are declining , and growing clouds of darkenesse , and superstition overspread the churches . it is no breach of charitie to thinke that through the iniquitie of the times , the godly lived in many evils through ignorance and weakenesse which after light is come into the churches wee ought to abandon wholly ; these are times of light and of the consumption of antichrist , and time for us to abolish his liturgies and corrupt formes of worship as well as images , ceremonies , &c. who doe not pitie the weaknesse of godly bilny and others that seeing some grosse corruptions were yet so devoutly obedient to the church ( as they called it ) in many grosse superstitions ? and the like may bee said of those former times , and wee see not but this reason will goe farre in justification of communion with many false worships of antichrists that are not grosly idolatrous . thirdly , it is a great charge upon those times to say no visible societie throughout the world can bee named since . yeeres after christ , that was not lesse pure then england in doctrine , rites , &c. it may bee , that as generally churches were corrupt , so they contemned and censured such as professed more puritie : but that there were some visible assemblies more pure may bee conceived by that testimony given to aerius and many orthodox christians with him , though condemned for a hereticke , in that which wee all now hold to bee an undoubted truth ; also after the waldenses casting off the pope and his will worships , and the following reformed churches , those of scotland , geneva , and divers others in france and switserland , &c. whose doctrines , rites and administrations wee doubt not will bee confessed more pure then english churches . it would bee too tedious , and in these knowing times needlesse to search all records and to compare the puritie of the prayers , and rites of these with former times , wee read of very few formes used for . yeeres , some short ones they had which are retained yet in our liturgie , with many more , and these formes they had , not imposed nor stinted , which is the great offence of this , untill about the yeere . and there wee read in the milevitan councell that no prayers should bee used in churches but what were either composed of able and sufficient men , or approved by the synods , and this was determined onely in regard of the ignorant ministery of those contentious and hereticall times , as chemnitius observes , ne forte aliquid contra fidem vel per ignorantiam , vel per minus studium sit compositum . if the roman bishops did multiply ( as indeed they did excessively ( unlesse their owne admirers erre grossely ) rites and formes of prayer , yet it is well knowne how long it was ere the churches in other places submitted to their power , so that this comparison might well have beene spared . to conclude , though wee say not that all churches since . yeeres after christ were so miserably decayed , that the faithfull might not without sinne communicate with them , yet wee may bee bold to say many of them were so corrupt , that the faithfull did not , nor could not communicate in many parts of gods worship without sinnes of ignorance conforming to the corruptions themselves ; and that if they had seene and discovered the evill of them , they ought , and we beleeve would have abstained from divers ordinances in regard of the corrupt administrations of them ; yea after all meanes used to purge them out , and not prevailing , they ought and would have withdrawn themselves to more pure churches , or erected such amongst themselves . reply . the prayers of the ministers conceived or stinted in a set forme bee not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the assembly ; but you will not say the people ought not to joyn with their pastour therein if ought bee amisse , for matter , manner , or both . answ . there is a wide difference betweene the whole liturgie , so imposed , and so clogged , as is before shewed : and such prayers of the minister having something amisse . but you may put the case so , as it would bee unlawfull for people to joyne in such prayers also : as if the minister for matter usually pray to saints ; for manner , turne himselfe , and fix his eye on a crucifix . reply . it is all one to the people in this case , whether the fault bee personall ( as some distinguish ) or otherwise ; knowne beforehand or not knowne ; for if simple presence defile , whether knowne before hand ▪ 〈◊〉 not , all presence is faultie , and if simple presence defile not , our presence is not condemned by reason of the corruptions knowne , whereof wee stand not guiltie . answ . first , we distinguish not here between personall and ministeriall faults , but object against the personall act of him that joynes with that whole liturgie , and so in the corruptions of it , as hee must needs doe , that joyns with the whole , not onely saying amen to them , but as is knowne he takes his share in those shreds of prayers , responds , &c. which in mr. cartwrights judgement is so absurd , as makes a man seeme out of his wits . and therefore his personall , actuall conformitie must needs carry guilt , and therefore there is more then simple presence in this case , as is cleare to any understanding . secondly , it is not all one whether the faults bee knowne , or not knowne beforehand , as appeares plainely , cor. . , , . where wee see , if a man come to a feast , and know not they eate with reference to the idoll , nor that any take offence , he may eate without asking any question : but if hee know such things , he may not eate . besides , publique sinfull actions of ministers are either , accidental & occasional , or ly . known & appointed in a stated service ; now the frailties of a minister , which accidentally fall in and are not known before , nor are any part and essence of the service , unto which men that come , doe or should take themselves to bee called , hinder not communion ; because they doe not prae se ferre by their presence to attend and observe them , but the corruptions of the liturgie are knowne and appointed , and to which and with which the imposers call others to joyne as in a stated service to god ; the use of which if it bee an humane frailtie in gods ministers , not yet convinced of the evill thereof , yet for those to communicate herein , who know such evills , have surely passed the bounds of frailtie and infirmitie ; because in this action of prayer there is not onely communion by way of presence , as it is in hearing the word , but communion of action : publique prayer being the common action of the whole church towards god. there can be no prayer by any man offered to god , but there will be some humane frailties attending on it ; if therefore for this cause wee should reject communion in prayer , wee should reject the ordinances of god , and never joyne in any prayer in this world ; but the corruptions of the liturgie are not such , but that they may bee more easily cast off , then kept . this case stands not in tolerating faults in another ( as the reply makes it ) but in actuall joyning with the sinnes of another , wherein hee that joyneth is involved , and therefore whether they bee corruptions , that may bee tolerated or not in another , yet if sinnes , they may not bee practised and so joyned in with another . and therefore the case you put of communion with any person obstinate in errour , till hee may bee convinced , is nothing to this purpose . for wee must not joyne with him in his error , no not an houre , though wee may tolerate him a moneth . reply . hath not christian wisedome and experience of humane frailties lessoned you ( deare brethren ) to beare one with another in matters of greater consequence , then any have , or can bee objected truely against the forme of prayer in use among us ? answ . the lord hath lessoned us to tolerate and beare with many humane frailties not onely in one another , but also in our deare brethren abroad ; but to joyne with the best of men in conformitie to knowne and grosse corruptions in worshipping god , or to stoop so low , to the insolent tyranny of usurping prelates , as to beare on our backs their whole liturgie , and the corruptions thereof , wee confesse wee have not yet learned , and now wee hope never to goe to that schoole againe to learne the same . reply . and why such corruptions should not bee ascribed to humane frailtie , we see not . for if a godly minister make use of a booke , in things which hee judges lawfull for matter and manner , the corruption of him that useth it , according to his judgement , from what cause can it spring but humane ignorance and frailtie ? answ . first , the learned replier is very apt to forget the termes of the proposition , which is of the whole liturgie , not of some things in it , that hee may judge lawfull , to judge the whole lawfull , wee thinke none of those who sent the questions doe . secondly , our question is not whether the minister use the book of humane frailtie , but whether the worship offered therein , bee not so corrupt for matter and manner , as puts a great difference betweene it , and the prayers of a minister that may bee subject to faylings of humane frailtie . wee doubt not , but bilney , latimer , &c. used the prayers and ceremonies of the church of rome , out of humane frailtie , yet the service it selfe and those ceremonies of holy water , holy bread , &c. which latimer turned to as good use , as hee could , were evill and no way to bee conformed unto by the godly . thirdly , there are many things done of others through humane , frailtie , that is , ignorantly and in some measure perversely , yet such frailties , though they are to bee very long tolerated in the man , yet every humane frailtie is not so to bee tolerated , as to bee communicated with ; for the grossest idolatry in popery may in this sense , if ignorantly done , bee accounted humane frailtie . it is true , wee may bee freed from communicating in anothers sinne two wayes . . by bearing witnesse against his sinne , or ly by withdrawing from the person committing it . there were times wherein the lord raised up witnesses against the growing abominations of antichrist for many yeeres ; and there are times ( as cameron well observes ) wherein the lord commands his people not onely to beare witnesse , but to come out of babylon . the case may be so put as that wee may quit our hands from communicating with other men , in their sinfull worship , by bearing witnesse onely against the sinne , yet communicating with them in the rest ; & è eonira the circumstances may bee such , as that wee best free our selves from sinne , by withdrawing from them in such acts . and wee freely confesse wee know not how to acquit others that communicate in the whole liturgie , without the one or the other . reply . wee rest assured you question not the integritie of many , who make much more use of the looke , then onely in a few select prayers . answ . you may so doe , and wee rest assured you question not the integritie of many that have conformed to the ceremonies , yet wee hope you will not justifie them in that act , no more then we doe any in this . reply . from the bottome of our hearts , wee pray that the lord would remove out of his church what ever offends , and yet all things might be so done , as might be approved in the consciences of all . answ . wee not onely joyne with you in this hearty desire , but blesse god that wee live to see the same so farre accomplished in a good part of england , as it is ; but as wee are perswaded the growing light and zeale of many godly ministers and christians , that have discovered the evill of the booke it selfe , as well as the ceremonies thereof , and their resolute rejection of the same , was one blessed meanes hereof , so wee feare the pleas and indeavours of some brethren to excuse it and the use of it , will be a dangerous meanes to uphold in the hearts of many too good an opinion of it , and loathnesse to cast it quite away to the moles and bats , from whence it first came . reply . to aggr●…vat●… faults , especially when it tends to draw away people from the ordinances of god , is no lesse evill then to excuse them , it may bee greater . answ . wee grant at some times and in some cases it may bee so , but in matters of corrupt worship , wherein god is so jealous and at such a time as this was ; when the burthensome corruptions of humane traditions so violently imposed on the churches , grew to such a number and unsupportable weight to the consciences of so many , wee doubt not to affirme , that now extenuations were farre more dangerous and offensive to the lord : wee cannot but with sad hearts consider and call to minde how many weake christians have ventured to swallow downe all manner of humane traditions and worships imposed upon them , imboldned much ( wee feare ) by the examples , if not the reasonings of many godly ministers , which scandall some of us with many amongst you have have cause to bewayle before the lord and give satisfaction before the world ; and wee hope our departure from these burdens , and flight into these wildernesses to enjoy christ in more pure ordinances of his worship , and the witnesse wee have thereby borne against them , have not been in vaine through the grace of jesus christ . reply . in them that joyne according to christs command ( and libertie of absence from christ hath not been shewed ) notwithstanding the corruptions , wee hold the prayers to bee an holy and acceptable sacrifice to the lord , and pleasing to jesus christ . answ . how any man can joyne with this whole liturgie according to christs command , who in the second commandement forbids all humane devices in his worship , whereof this liturgie is so full ; it is hard for us to conceive , and strange to see it affirmed : and that libertie from christ to bee absent cannot bee shewed . the whole sentence as it standeth , wee confesse to us seemes an high justification thereof , which wee little expected . reply . the corrupt sacrifice is that which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily , and out of neglect , having a male in his flock , but the godly bringeth himselfe and godly desires according to the will of god , and the corruptions in matter or manner are not his , they cleave not to his sacrifice to staine and pollute it . the text in malach. . is misapplyed , and wee desire such as alledge this passage against simple presence at the prayers of the liturgie , advisedly to consider whether god allow them to make such application of his truth , which we much doubt of , to say no more . answ . that people joyning in the whole liturgie , voluntarily offer up the same , wee thought had beene no question : if any joyne by feare and compulsion ( though the will in this case is not forced , for ●…i●…ta actio is voluntaria ) [ wee thinke that will not ease , but aggravate the evill , arguing a reluctancy or doubtfulnesse at least in his conscience ; and so what hee doth is not of faith , and therefore sin , rom. . ] ly . what you say of the faithfull here , might be said for the faithful in malachi his time , if any godly man came with godly desires to jerusalem to worship , and then carelesly buy and take a corrupt sacrifice for cheapnesse , ease , &c. shall hee not bee counted ( at least in part ) this deceiver , and beare the curse ? and why not so here in this case ? let a man bring himselfe , and never so godly desires , yet if hee will joyne in a knowne corrupt service , will his godly desires excuse him ? shall not his broken absurd responds , his standing at the creed , kneeling at the sacrament , &c. all which hee must doe , if hee joyne in the whole liturgie , shall none of these cleave to his sacrifice ? what though the minister offer the service ? so did the priest the sacrifice ; but both in the name of the people , and they joyning with him in offering the same to god. ly . concerning malach. . , . the more advisedly wee consider it , the more perswaded wee are , the lord allow us to make such application of the truth contained in it , and wee thinke others will bee of our mind , not onely in respect of the similitude that i●… in this case , with that in malachi , but also if wee consider , what an argument the lord useth to convince them of their corruptions and carelesnesse in his service , verse . wherein the lord upbraids the jewes and provokes them to jealousie , as the apostle paul speakes , by declaring the reverend esteeme of his name amongst the heathen , and that every where incense should bee offered and a pure offering to his name . and what is that incense , and pure offering , but the pure prayers , and worship of god that should be in all gentile churches under the gospell ? as tertullian , eusebius , jerom and austin with others expound it . and hee applies it againe , verse . i am a great king , and my name shall bee great amongst the heathen : if then the lord oppose the pure prayers and worship of gentile churches to the corrupt carelesse sacrifices of the jewes , the application is not onely sutable , but the place containes a sad admonition to all gentile churches , that by their corrupt worships , and incense , so farre frustrate ( as it were ) gods expectation and glorying of their pure oblations . reply . your third proposition . that as you are very tender of imputing sinne to those men that joyne in some select prayers read by an able and godly minister , so on the other side , you are not without feare , lest such joyning may bee found unlawfull , unlesse it may appeare , that the ministers with whom they have communion , neither give scandall by reading them , nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to bee sinfully limited in the reading of them . wee cannot conceive how you should imagine the practise of a godly minister in reading some few select prayers to bee scandalous , or offensive in the congregations , when the people generally in their assemblies and in the whole land were perswaded of the lawfulnesse of that course , till now of late times some have beene drawne away to separate ; who yet by warrant of scripture produce nothing of weight , to countenance that practise . answ . concerning this proposition , wee doe ingenuously confesse , that it may seeme over rigid and tending to separation , and therefore we will not wholly justifie the same : yet diverse things there bee , which may much mitigate the seeming rigidnesse of it . in the words of the answer , where wee doe not determine any thing positively , wee doe not impute sinne to any in such a case , wee say onely that wee are not without feate , lest it may bee found unlawfull , where any scandall , unlawfull honour , or sinfull limiting bee found in the ministers : and if our feares bee needlesse , wee hope , such as know how jealous the lord is in matters of his worship will easily forgive us . because you marvell wee should bee so timerous in this case , wee shall give you some reasons of it , which perhaps may abate much the marvell or wonder . first , let it bee remembred that these select prayers are yet a part of that liturgie , which is acknowledged to bee corrupt in matter and manner and clogged with such evill consequences as are afore touched ; taken out of the masse-booke , &c. and master parker ( who was no separatist ) doubts not to affirme , that the touching of antichrists things maketh uncleane , for which hee cites , cor. . . haggai . . john . . park of the crosse , part . pag. . secondly , let it be considered that this booke is imposed by an unlawfull antichristian authoritie of the prelates , to whom to give place and subjection in any thing is justly to bee questioned . and wee know that a man may acknowledge his fealtie and hold his lands of the lord of the manner by a small rent , as well as by a greater . thirdly , consider this corrupt service-booke hath beene over-long tolerated and borne withall in the english churches : it deserveth not so honorable a buriall as the jewish worship : but hath stunke above ground twice . yeeres , in the nostrills of many godly , who breathed in the pure ayre of the holy scripture , being witnessed against by the writings and sufferings of many godly ministers and christians in england and scotland . fourthly , many godly men ( it is well knowne ) have been ( of late times especially ) offended at many good ministers silence in these things , that they would no more plainely and boldly discover the corruptions in that booke , and at their compliance with the same . fiftly , these are times of more light , whereby the lord is consuming antichrist , with the breath of his mouth . and therefore we have cause the more to feare how we meddle with any thing of his . sixtly , consider the season when this answer was sent , was it not at a time , when superstitious opinions of the whole booke and the ceremonies thereof , were growne to a great height in the mindes and hearts of very many ? when divers superstitious popish worships , as bowing at the name of jesus , reading at the table set altar-wise , &c. were added to the heape of former corruptions ? when the tyranny of the prelates raged in the pressing of the booke , and their other humane inventions ? when many ministers and people ( well thought of by the best ) were carried away shamefully with these things ? when many weake christians were staggering and wavering and looking at the judgement and practise of their guides , ready to stand or fall with them ? lastly , consider that things lawfull in themselves may bee inexpedient ; because offensive in their use , and so farre unlawfull ; which offence wee chiefly looked at in this act , as appeares by our answer . let all these things bee laid together and weighed in an equall ballance ( which wee hope our brethren are now at some libertie and leasure to doe ) and let the consciences of all speake , whether it was not high time , for all the godly in england to take unto them that zeale and courage , which was soone after in our brethren of scotland , to cast off and wholly abandon the book it self and all the formes of it , and use of the same in every part and peece thereof ? at least wee hope you will cease to marvell at our timerousnesse of such a season , how ever wee confesse , wee have sometime been more bold in the darke . these considerations premised , as they may in a great measure abate the seeming rigour of the proposition : so they will much take off the edge of the reply . for it will appeare that all conformitie of ministers and people to any parcells of that booke , at such a season as this was , is a farre differing case from those that are put in some of the replies . to the first reply then , wherein you put it beyond imagination , that such a practise should bee scandalous or offensive , wee know not what you have observed in some particular congregations neere you : but what ever have beene the opinions of men formerly concerning this practise , yet you know that the booke in generall hath been condemned of all godly reformers , and the use of any part of it hath been counted burdensome to many for the reasons named . but of later times , as the booke and conformitie thereto was urged more hotly , so the spirits of very many grew more zealous against it , and began to loath it , and to withdraw wholly from it ; many very inquisitive about the lawfulnesse or unlawfulnesse of joyning with it at all , and your selves complaine of the withdrawing of many , from joyning in the ordinances , where it was used , so that wee see not , but at least in some persons and at some places and times it might probably bee offensive and scandalous so to practise . wee looked not onely to the offence of those in your owne congregations , but to the imboldning and hardning of papists in honouring any part of their portuises , above the formes of other reformed churches abroad ; and you cannot bee ignorant how many of the lords witnesses now asleepe have testified of the offence and danger thereof . reply . you say if the booke were an idolothyte , yet latent offence doth not oblige . answ . the offence in this season , and as all things stand , cannot bee latent , complaint is made of the offence taken by many , and therefore it is evident . reply . the booke so farre as it is sound and good ( by your confession ) is no idolothyte , nor taken out of the masse booke , in such sense as you object ▪ but rather the masse and other prayers added to it ; popery is a scab cle●…ving to the church , and many truths belonging to the church , as her proper legacy , were stolne , and heaped together in that denne ; and why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever hee finde them , or the theefe plead title to the true mans goods by prescription wee know not . answ . first , wee judge the whole booke an idolothyte , and whence you gather , that wee confesse the contrary of any part of it , as it stands apart in relation to that whole , wee know not . secondly , that it was taken out of the masse booke , was proved by the confession of king edward ; and other evidences are many ; but you say , not in such sense as wee object . but rather , è contra masse , &c. added to it , &c. but where to finde such a legacy bequeathed to the church in the testament of our lord jesus christ , wee could never yet see : so that wee rather feare all those formes of prayer , of marriage , burialls , visitations of the sick , confirmation , &c. are rather the copper counterfeit coyne , of a well growne antichrist , whereby he cousened the churches , when hee stole away the golden legacy of christ , rather then any part of the true churches legacy : and therefore it had been more happy for the churches that they had never challenged the same , but let the theefes prescription to have been a good plea to hold them still : this further we adde , when we say it was taken out of the masse-booke , wee understand masse-booke in a large sense , ( as it is commonly taken ) for to speake narrowly it was collected out of three popish bookes , the first part of publique prayers , exbreviario ; the second part , viz. the order of administring sacraments , matrimony , visiting the sick and burialls , è rituali ; . the order of consecration in the supper , the epistles and gospels , and collects , è missali , as the forme of consecration of bishops and priests was taken è pontificali , as the author of altare damasc . shews , pag. . thirdly , because those words , popery is a scab , &c. may bee a seed of much evill , an egge out of which a serpent may bee hatched , if men zealous of mouldy formes may but have time againe to set upon it , if the wheele of these evill times , ( through gods judgement on this wanton age ) turne the prelates or other zelotes for this liturgie uppermost , wee shall therefore crave libertie to examine this speech more narrowly . and because ( as it is said ) unumquodque ex suâ origine rectissime judicatur , wee shall trace the steps of the first times and so downeward , to see what sound parts of liturgie there was , on which this scab is supposed to grow . . our blessed saviour taught his disciples a blessed forme , which though it may bee lawfully and comfortably used , the rather , not being of mans , but the lords composing : yet it is evident hee never appointed his people to use it as their onely forme , and therefore the apostles in the primitive church , in that heavenly prayer , acts . did not attend to the words and forme of this prayer , though they might have this in their eye , as the comon rule and direction how to powre out their prayers to god , for particular things , which may be an everlasting witnesse against their usurpations , that will limit the churches to their formes which the lord christ would not doe to his owne . . in the first . yeeres after christ , wee read of few formes , that the churches used , and those rather short ejaculations , then set formes , but contrarily wee read frequently of the exercise of their gifts in prayer . they prayed sine monitore , quia de pectore , saith tertullian , i. e. they prayed without a promptour , because from the heart , which as zephirus observes was in opposition to the prompted formes then in use amongst the pagans . wee read also what they prayed for , viz. pro inimicis , pro imperatoribus , pro statu seculi ▪ pro morà finis , &c. but of any set formes we read not . their persecutions and dayes of afflictions preserved them from formalitie in prayer , and taught them how to finde their hearts and knees , and tongues , to poure out their soules to god , while under the altar they were pouring out their blood . . but after the churches had enjoyed peace for some space of time , ( wherein securitie usually makes insensible , and insens●…blenesse formall ) then indeed wee read of set and imposed formes , which the rather prevailed in regard of the grosse and palpable ignorance of a blind ministry , under a more learned prelacy , and therefore it is well observed by chemnitius that the third councell of carthage decreed this ; ut nemo in precibus , &c. viz. that no minister in his prayers either names the father for the sonne or the sonne for the father , but when hee comes to the altar , to direct his prayers alwayes to god the father , and that no man use his owne formes , till hee have conferred and shewed his formes to men more able , which wee finde sometime to bee the synod . after these times they added the commemoration of saints to their prayers and letanies , as appears from manifold instances , whereof take but this one imputed to chrysostome : sanctissimae deiparae & semper virginis mariae , cum omnibus sanctis , memoriam agentes , nos ipsos & omnem vitam nostram christo deo nostro commendamus . which letanies at first being used more seldome at some times of the year , afterwards grew into ordinary use , to every end of which the people added , lord have mercy upon us , and exaudi domine , we beseech thee to hear us good lord. from commemoration of saints , ( being so near the brink ) they soon came on to invocation of them , first in private prayers , then in publick , and that by degrees . for first , they called upon christ to hear their intercessions for them . intercessionibus sanctorum tuorum , salvator , salva nos : and thence they fell to direct and immediate invocation of them . maria deo supplica , ut animas nostras salvet . at last they became so superstitious in their letanies or liturgies , that praying was magnified above all preaching , and almost all preaching was changed into formall , corrupt , and blind praying ; and thus it was generally in the churches , till about the sixt century , as ( if need were ) might be shewed at large . though other churches were thus over-grown with forms of worship , yet the roman bishops especially , did multiply forms and superstitious ▪ rites excessively . rome being ( in gods secret providence ) left to become the very seat and throne of antichrist . the bishops themselves also finding it exceeding hard to bring in the ●…ligion of christ , without conforming to the pagan rites , as casaubon observes . for it appears even in the time of theodosius , wherein christianity was risen to a great head , the senate being sent unto by him to renounce their pagan religion , and receive the law of christ , they returned answer that they would not , but that they would observe the ancient law pompilian , to avoid the ruine of the common-wealth , which they feared might come by the change of religion . the roman bishops also for years together , could never obtain of the senate , nor multitudes of the roman idolaters , to renounce their inveterate idolatry , and receive the gospel . hence they conformed their rites and ceremonies to the pagan and idolatrous customes , the better to allure them to christ according to their carnalll policy . we finde all the principal parts of the masse to be borrowed from the idolatrous pagans , and to have their originall from numa pompilius that conjurer , who lived years before christ , to adorn and deck ( as the bishops thought ) the religion of christ jesus , to the which with much ado at last the romans were converted . to which principall parts , viz. vestments , holy-water , the confiteor , organs , incense , offertory , &c. other deckings were added also , as divers letanies , and the kurie elyson to be sung nine times , invented by gregory a monk at first , well-studied in the laws of numa and tullus hostilius : damasus ( as platina and sabellius shew ) inriched it with gloria patri , &c. i. e. glory be to the father , son , and holy ghost . sergius , with an agnus dei , to be sung three times . alexander and other bishops added the canon of the masse ; others , the epistles and gospels : the graduall and collects were added by gelasius , anno . the gloria in excelsis by symmachus . at last came the host in about . much more might be said . all which when we consider , we confess we are pusled to discern the difference between the sound part and the scab . for if the principal formalities of the masse ( out of which our liturgy was taken ; as is confessed ) arose out of a politick push to conform the christian to the pagan religion , and the deckings of it , from the itching humor of the roman busie bishops , admirers of humane inventions and ceremonies ▪ let the reader then judge what sound parts are left beside the scab . we do not speak this to condemn every thing for the matter of it that is in the common-prayer-book : yea , we honor the affection and piety of the first reformers , and the godly then , that were glad to hear prayers in their own to●…e , and according to the glimmering light of those times , aymed at the winning of papists to the true religion by such a form of worship . but now since experience hath taught , it rather hardens them against the truth , then draws them toward it ; when we see the pressing of it is rather a temptation to conform to popery , then otherwise ; we verily beleeve , if they had lived in these times of further light , they would have born witnesse against it , as others have done . lastly , though the originall had been good ( which yet is contrary ) we may answer in the words of peter martyr , to such as did plead for a lawfull presence at masse , because the originall was good ; who answers thus : in hisoe rebus non origo , &c. in these matters , not the originall , but the nature is to be considered ; for the brasen serpent had its originall from god , and was honored with miraculous works : yet when abused , piis hominibus redditus est detestabilis , it became ( most ) loathsome to godly men . reply . it is no hard task to shew , that our service-book was reformed in most things , according to the purest liturgies which were in use in the church , long before the masse was heard of in the world . and if that could not be shewed , yet forms of speech generally taken ( we speak not of this or that speciall word or phrase ) is no more defiled by idolatry , then the light , air , or place where idolatry is committed , &c. answ . it is just cause of grief unto us , that this reverend author should thus use the prelates plea for surplice and other ceremonies , to justifie this corrupt liturgy ; for these were before the masse , and many other idols of the papists : and though a phrase or word be not polluted by their use of it ; yet a needless ceremony , and so a devised form of worship , and a bundle of ceremonious and corrupt wor●…s , must needs be polluted by the use of them ; better to use t●… forms of turks then papists , saith cartw. supra . reply . fourthly , put case the minister in reading give offence , give unlawfull honor to a thing abused to idolatry , and suffer himself to be sinfully limited in reading ? what is that to the faithfull ? this can be no ground that the people may not joyn , &c. answ . we doe not conclude that they doe sin , but fearfull we are lest they may so do ; all things considered in this case , as have been before propounded . if indeed the case stood as formerly it hath done in england , we would have been lesse scrupulous and doubtfull of the matter : but if by the out-breaking of light , after so long toleration of the book , we see so many evill effects of it , and see such superstitious opinions of it increasing , and such pressing the same to the oppression of the churches , so many fall , so many weak ones stagger , and look at the example of their guides : if now when all are called of god to rise up against it with zeal and detestation , a minister godly and able will use any part of it with offence , &c. we suppose we had cause to fear and leave it doubtfull , whether the godly might lawfully joyn with them therein , and therefore we desire you to call back your sharp censure of such withdrawing , as you conclude this passage withall , or else we shal appeal to the reverend assembly of ministers , and their late and godly directory herein . reply . fifthly , if these , and such like scruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordinance of worship , we must hold communion with no society under heaven . for may not the brethren which hold all stinted liturgies and set forms unlawfull , say with like reason , it is not lawfull to joyn with others inconceived prayers , if they give too little honor to it , as conceiving the other lawful , or sinfully limiting themselves to one stinted form , though conceived at first by themselves , &c. answ . we must intreat the christian reader still to carry in minde with what tendernesse we offered our selves in this point , and upon what considerations we durst not wholly excuse and cleare such joyning as the case now stood , and therefore we think these reasonings would be far differing from the case in hand , and we would not be taken so as to justifie such rigid principles as these are . we heartily joyn in the conclusion , that such advancing of small differences , would indeed bring all to confusion , and we are far ( we hope ) from any such meaning . if our answer in this or any other passage , give just advantage to such separations , we are heartily sorry for it ; but we hope what hath been said will satisfie the ingenuous and christian reader . reply . sixthly , we have credibly heard , that you hold fellowship with professed rigid separatists , without acknowledging of their error , and receive them as members , or communicate with them in the priviledges of the church , though you professe you approve not their opinion or practice : and if in godly wisdome you can see grounds to joyn with them , we marvail you should be so timerous in this particular . answ . although in many of our churches we know not that there be any such professed rigid separatists , that reject the churches of england , as no churches ; and their ministers , as no true ministers ; yet we deny not but some such there may bee in some of the churches . whence we grant it may follow that we can have communion in gods worship with men of severall judgments , yet we may be justly timerous of joyning or approving others to joyn in any part of a corrupt worship , in case of scandall , &c. we think these things have not the same face or shew of reason in them ; and therefore so long as they live peaceably with us , we can well have fellowship with them , as we have also with other , that think ( it may be ) better of the churches and wayes of it , then there is cause , in regard of the corruptions thereof ; so we be not bound to approve their opinions , nor conform to any of their corrupt practises . reply . seventhly , if to administer in a stinted form be scandalous to such as separate , it is scandall taken , not given ; and we should do it the rather , that they be not confirmed in their error , the truth be not prejudiced , needless scruples occasioned , &c. answ . this is from the question , for we dispute of your liturgy , not of any liturgy or stinted form. take in the case in all its circumstances , ( as before declared ) and it will appear scandall may be given ; at least we put the case of a scandall really given . how far a man in some cases of clear and undoubted truths may do a thing , the rather for such reasons , though others take offence , we will not dispute : but if for meat ( or by use of our liberty by eating of such meat , as another accounts unclean ) we may destroy the work of god , and therefore must not eat flesh , nor drink wine , nor any thing whereby a brother stumble , &c. rom. , , , . how dangerous then to use such corrupt forms of worship , or any part thereof , so much the rather , when a weak brother stumbles at them , we leave it to the christian reader to judge , we doubt it will not agree with the rules of charity prescribed rom. . cor. . chap. iii. position . that the children of godly and approved christians are not to be baptized , untill their parents be set members of some particular congregation . that the parents themselves , though of approved piety , are not to be received to the lords-supper , untill they be admitted as set members . reply . what is here premised to prevent mistakes , doth seem more to raise , then to abate scruples . you refuse not all communion with all that are not church-members , and so much they professe who formerly have gone for , and professed themselves separatists from our assemblies ; you doe not appropriate these priviledges of the seals onely to members of your own churches , &c. if you mean onely that the sacraments administred in other churches be true for substance ; it is no more then you will confesse of rome . if you deny not fellowship with them in the seals , and to receive them to the sacrament , your judgement is against your practise , or you exclude the churches of england from the number of true churches . answ . we see not how such scruples could be raised without great mistake of our meaning , our expressions were so plain and distinct . for , what if some separatists admit private communion with such , yet they reject your churches and ministery as null , which we doe not . and many of them have refused also such private communion . we marvail how you could fall into such a mistake , as to suppose we onely allow the truth of sacraments for substance in other churches , when we speak in the same sentence of receiving satisfaction by letters , or otherwise concerning those we admit to the seales ; which plainly shew we speak of communion with such churches . concerning fellowship with those churches , we may admit members of them to the seales with us , when we cannot always joyn with them in their administrations , by reason of some sinfull corruptions , wherein we must have actuall fellowship with them ; as your selves would not joyn , in case you must kneel at the lords-supper . concerning the dilemma . we answer ; our practice is not crosse to this profession . for such as come recommended from forein churches , and give such satisfaction as is meet , we doe receive ; and such as have wholly cast off all relation to english churches , and live amongst us , we have looked at as scattered stones , till they joyn some where in a church ; and themselves generally so judge of themselves ; but if any will hold to their membership in england , and come orderly to communion with us , we have not , nor shall not under that notion refuse them , if they be fit for the ordinances ; and therefore we exclude not the english churches out of the number , and herein we deal no otherwise with them , then with the members of our owne churches . reply . all possible care to keep the ordinances of god from contempt , we allow and commend , so you deny not church priviledges , to whom they are due , nor the name of churches to such as god hath blessed with meanes of grace , and have received the tables and seales , and entred covenant with god. your liberty to receive such satisfaction as is meet , is not questioned , nor whether you are to keep the bond of the spirit inviolable according to order : but whether this be according to order , to exclude from the sacrament true visible christians , or known recommended christians , formerly members of visible churches amongst us , and their children ; and to put such difference between them , and such as are in your church order . answ . if the learned author would hold to what here is granted , we hope this controversie would soon be at an issue ; but it will appear after this order allowed binds onely in case of the ministers to dispense sacraments , but christians are left at a loose end , in respect of combining themselves unto particular churches according to the order of christ , which is the thing wee plead for . we have not denyed the name of churches to such as are said to have plentifully the means of grace , tables , seales , and covenant . concerning the stating of the question , too much liberty is taken , as in other cases ; for neither in the position , or in our answer , doe we limit the question to members in our church order , ( as here it is called ) but expresly extend the same to other churches of christ , though through error or humane frailty , defective in matters of order , yea , to the members of any true church , as in the answer is said . . concerning such as come over , and are for a time without seales , it is not because we refuse communion with them , as being members of your churches known , or recommended christians , as you say . for if any godly man remaining a member in any true church with you , or elswhere , come so recommended , or be well known to the church , we never under that notion refuse any , but giving such other satisfaction as is meet , shall readily receive them , as we always professe , and therefore we must still call for attendance to the state of this question in its right terms , viz. whether the children of godly parents , or themselves though of approved piety , are to be admitted to the seales , not being members of some particular congregation , or untill they be such . chap. iv. reply . to the first consideration : if by the church be understood the society of men professing the entire faith , the seales are given to it , as peculiar priviledges , but if you understand a congregationall assembly , the seales were never appropriated to it . answ . our meaning is plain in the second sense , as may appear by the reasons alledged against any such universall church , as instituted and politicall , wherein the seales are dispensed , which reasons you answer not , but grant there is no such catholick church in our sense , pag. . and if no such church wherein the seales are administred , as we proved , then the cause it self is yeelded , and the seales must belong to particular churches . seeing the main hinge of this question turns upon this point , to what church the administration and participation of the seals belong , wee shall a little further open our selves in this point . and because we affect and study peace with truth ; we shall freely acknowledge , first , that as there is an invisible church and body of christ , consisting of all the elect , effectually called throughout the world in all ages of it , the whole family in heaven and earth : so unto jesus christ , all the visible beleevers and churches of the world , are as one body to him , he governing , protecting , instructing all as his visible body . secondly , we acknowledge a visible communion of all the true churches of the lord jesus , in all offices of brotherly love , and in the holy things of christ , so far as may appear , the lord have ordained and commanded , and by his providence called them to exercise one with another . thirdly , we grant that all true beleevers , where-ever they bee , have by faith in christ , a true right and interest unto jesus christ and all his benefits , whatsoever he hath purchased for them ; but here we must first distinguish of these benefits of christ , whereof some are meerly spirituall , inward , and flowing immediately from christ unto them ; and therefore peculiar to true beleevers , as justification , sanctification , adoption , accesse to god in prayer , &c. some are outward and tending to the help and furtherance of our spirituall communion with christ , being outward and visible meanes thereof ; and therefore are also extended to hypocrites being visible beleevers , as the ministery of the word , seals , church-discipline , &c. and these cannot be dispensed by christ immediately nor ordinarily , but by means of a visible church . . we distinguish of right to these outward benefits of christ ; which is either remote , called , jus ad rem ; or near , and immediate , called , jus in re ; right to the enjoyment and fruition of it . now in the first sense we grant , all visible beleevers have a right to seals , &c. but the immediate fruition of them , they must have mediante ecclesiâ visibili : now here lyes the true state of the question , whether the lord jesus have ordained an universall visible church , in which , and unto which , by the officers thereof all these outward visible priviledges and means of grace , are to be dispensed and immediately enjoyed of the faithfull ; or whether ( not the remote right , but ) the immediate fruition and administration of all these ordinances by the institution of christ , be given to particular visible churches ; and surely to whom one of these is given , all are given : for there is the same nature , reason , and use of all , ministry of the word , seals , discipline , all are outward ordinances , priviledges , means of grace , belonging to the visible church , where christ hath given one , he hath given all . but we must confesse , however you call this , a new church way , it is new to us to read so much of late , of such a catholick church , to which administration of seals , censures , &c. belong . we are yet of the opinion of baynes , parker , and cartwright , &c. that have against papists and prelates maintained , that in the new testament there is no instituted catholick , nationall , or provinciall church ; but onely the church of a particular congregation , both for the reasons alledged in our answer , as also for the impossibility thereof in the days of the new testament , when the lord jesus sent his apostles into all the world ; therefore impossible both in regard of distance of place , and variety of language almost ever to meet in one , so much as by representation , and that not onely by accident , as may befall a particular church , by sickness , persecution , &c. but by the necessity of nature and invincible hinderances foreseen by christ , and intended by him . and therfore , as the lord limiting his church to one nation , united it into that form of a nationall church , ordaining one place , stated times and duties of worship , and one government for the same : so now the ●…ord neglecting all such things , hath ordained a compleat administration of all his ordinances in particular congregations , and therefore if there be no other instituted visible church but of a congregation , and seals in their administration be given to the church , our first consideration will still hold firm . but seeing in so vast a subject to say little , is to say nothing ; and there is scarce any truth in this wilie age but is almost disputed out of countenance , and much darkned with humane evasions ; and seeing much depends upon this controversie , it may be so most usefull before we come to the defence of our argument to take into consideration the nature and order of the visible church of christ catholick and particular . we are not ignorant of the knots and difficulties of this question , which of late have so much exercised the minds of many godly-learned : and we think the notions of a catholick church , as it is now held , being but newly taken up amongst-godly reformers , who formerly ran in another channell , ( as is ingenuously confessed by some according to the truth ) this new-birth seems not yet so formed to its distinct proportions , as time may bring it unto : and it might make us afraid ( being the weakest of many ) to venture upon so diffuse and knotty a question , when we look upon our own insufficiency to such a task , and the learned labors of such in this point , whom we reverence in the lord : yet , when we consider of what great weight and moment the clearing up of this truth would be unto the orderly proceedings of the great work of reformation in hand ; how unavoydably it lyes in our way in this work the lord hath called us unto ; and that he sometimes doth vouchsafe to speak by weak ones , that the praise may be his own , in hope of his blessed guidance which we depend upon herein , taking the light of his word in our hands , we shall ( rather as learners then otherwise ) venture to propound what is suggested to us herein . concerning which having digressed a while , we shall return ( we hope ) with some advantage of clearer evidence to justifie the first argument of the answer , against what is said in the reply . chap. v. a digression tending to clear the state of that controversie concerning a catholick visible church , in respect of the nature , unity , visibility , and priority of the same . the world hath been long troubled with the equivocation of the word [ church : ] and therefore ( as it is needfull ) we shall labor to set down our thoughts as distinctly and plainly as we can in certain propositions that may be some ground of our discourse . proposition . the true church of god is the whole number of elect and called ones out of the world to fellowship with jesus christ their head , with whom they make up one mysticall body , ephes . . . this whole church is of the same nature , and one in essence from the beginning of the world to the end ; for this church christ laid down his life , ephes . . . joh. . . and therefore he adds , vers . . such as are not yet of his fold ( actually ) shall be brought into the same , viz. by effectuall calling , that there may be one shepheard and one sheepfold : wherby it appears that the whole fold of christ to which he stands as one shepheard , contains all his members and sheep to the end of the world , and it is one fold in relation to christ that one shepheard . proposition . this one entire body of christ doth naturally fall under various notions and considerations , as ( omitting others ) when it is considered according to the adjuncts of visibility and invisibility , which are onely adjuncts of the same church , as is generally observed by divines . in respect of the inward union which every such member hath with christ the head , by the spirit of christ , and by faith , whereby we are united to him ; it is called invisible , because this union is not visible to men . in respects of some visible fruits and manifestations of faith to the judgment of men , it is called visible ; and hence though true beleevers be onely univoce , and properly members of this body of christ ; yet to men that judge onely by outward effects many hypocrites , equivoce and improperly are accounted of the church ; and hence the scripture frequently speaks of visible churches , as if they were all really saints . proposition . as this church comes to be visible , so it becomes a fit and capable subject of visible policy , and visible communion with christ their head , and one with another in all the visible ordinances of christ , a capable subject we say , or matter fit for such a state ; for by its visibility it self it is not so , having yet no more then a spirituall relation to christ and one another : no visible combination one with another ; for visible beleevers may be so scattered in severall countreys , that they cannot make up one society . proposition . and therefore we add , that there is no way for this church to enjoy actuall visible communion under the visible government of christ , and in the visible instituted ordinances of christ , but in a society . a thousand uncombined persons meeting occasionally in one place , though their naturall relations were as near as brethren , yet have no power of government or actuall communion in any civill priviledges , if they stand not in relation to one another as a combined society ; as after shall be shown ; so here : and therefore , acts . , . first they were added to the church , and then followed their fellowship in all the ordinances of the church ; as after will more fully appear . and hence it is said , acts . . beleevers were added ; first they were beleevers , standing in that spirituall relation to christ and his whole body , and then added to the church by visible combination . proposition . there is no visible society of a church who hath actuall and immediate right unto , and communion in the visible government of christ , and the dispensation of his instituted worship and ordinances , but such a society as the lord jesus hath in the gopel instituted and ordained for that end . we say actuall and immediate right unto the same ; for though a beleever , quâ beleever , have an immediate right , and actuall enjoyment of such benefits of christ as necessarily and immediately flow from his internall union with christ , as justification , adoption , &c. and such right to christian communion with all the saints in their prayers , gifts , &c. as flow from his spirituall relation unto them ; yea , and also he hath a true right to all benefits purchased by christ in a due order and manner : yet we say instituted priviledges and ordinances doe not immediately flow from spirituall union and relation to christ and his members , but are dispensed by christ to his people mediately , and in such an order as he hath in wisdome ordained : and this the nature of visible government and ordinances of christ necessarily requires . and hence it is , that although the church in its nature and essence , and in respect of its spirituall union and relation to christ and one another , profession of the same faith , &c. have been always one and the same in all ages , yet both the visible government and ordinances of worship , and also the instituted form and order of church-societies hath been various according to the wisdome and will of christ , whereby it appears , that the order , government , forms of visible church-societies , to which actuall enjoyment of visible ordinances doe belong , cannot justly be deduced from the common nature of the church cathoilck , or any respects of reason or logicall notions under which it may fall : but onely this depends upon the will and pleasure of christ , who hath in all ages instituted the forms and orders of such societies to whom the actual enjoyment of instituted ordinances was given : and hence the argument for a nationall form of a church to be in the new testament as wel as in the old , drawn from the common nature , essence , profession of faith , &c. of the church in all ages , falls flat to the ground , for by the same reason it must then be in families onely now , as it was about abrahams time . proposition . hence it follows that the true state of this great dispute about a catholick church ( so far as tends to clear up to what church the actuall administration of church-government , and all instituted worship belongs ) doth not lye in the consideration of the common nature , essence , unity , visibility , or any other notions under which it may fall ; but the true state lyes here concerning the nature , order , form of such visible societies , as christ jesus by divine institution in the gospel hath reduced his visible members unto , for the actuall and immediate enjoyment of all his instituted ordinances . and therefore ( with due respect to the godly-learned be it spoken ) we conceive many large disputes in this question fall short of the issue that is desired and intended ; for what if it be granted : that there is a catholick visible church , which in some respects of reason ( as mr. ball saith ) is one that having partes visibiles , is a totum visibile . that the visible church is not onely a totum genericum , in relation to all the particular congregations , as species specialissimae , of a visible church in generall , ( which respect of reason in some sense we freely consent unto ) but also that it may fall under the notion of a totum integrale , as some contend , ( though we conceive in this notion , they are so intangled in their own logicall principles , as that they cannot get out without breaking them , and flying to theologicall considerations ) yet we say , what if that also be attained ? yea further , what if this catholick church be in some respects of reason and order of nature also the first church , and particular churches , ortae ? yea further , what if it were gained also by such disputes , that the keys and officers , ordinances , &c. be given firstly to this catholick church as to the object and end ? we confesse we do not see that what our brethren contend for , is by all this obtained . for , first , if the universall number of visible beleevers be one totum aggregatum ; yet it will bee hard to prove that these are one instituted and politicall society , that can enjoy visible communion together in visible worship and government ; and yet more hard to prove that by the institution of christ , these all are to be actually governed as one totum . secondly , what though the members of the church catholick be in order of time before particular churches , as being fit matter for them , and constituting of them ? yet this proves not one politicall body before they combine , but rather the contrary . thirdly , be it so that this catholick church is the first church to which christ hath firstly given the keys , ordinances , promises , &c. for which christ firstly performed the offices of king , priest , and prophet , and what else soever can be said in this kinde ; yet all this may be in this respect that christ looked at this catholick church firstly as the chief object and end for whose sake and good he ordained and gave all these things , and this will not carry the cause ; for as the church catholick visible in this sense is the first church in respect of the particulars , so the invisible body of christ is in nature and priority the first church in respect of visible , as visible ; for christ no doubt firstly intends and gives all these things to the invisible church , as to the object and end of the same for whose good they are all ordained ; rather then for the catholick visible church , which containes many hypocrites and reprobates within the verge of it . but now if we speak of a subject of the keys , to which the actuall exercise and dispensation of keys and instituted ordinances belong : who doe not see that in this sense the invisible church quâ talis , cannot be that instituted society to which the keys , &c. belong ; and by the same reason the catholick visible church quâ totum , and quâ catholick , cannot be this instituted society to which they are given . it is a known rule in reason , that , that which is first in intention , is last in execution ; and so it is here , first , christ propounds this end to himself to gather , edifie , perfect , sanctifie , save his catholick church , ephes . . , . & . . and therefore institutes all ordinances as means to farther and attain this great design ; but in execution he may ( for all this ) give the keys and ordinances in regard of the immediate exercise to any form of visible societies that he shall be pleased to institute , and it may be that will prove the least society sooner then a greater . and seeing our brethren otherwise minded make much use of similies in this dispute : we hope it will not be amisse for us to illustrate what we say by a similitude , ●…tly to make our conceivings the more plain to all whose edification we seek ; and partly , to discover the invalidity of many discourses of this nature ; and because similia arguunt fidemque faciunt , ( as he saith ) viz. so far as rightly applyed ) we will therefore propound it in way of argument . the similitude is this , genus humanum , or mankinde in generall is the subject of civill government in generall , and of all the priviledges thereof , as the object and the end : and let the question be , whether this catholick number of all mankinde is the first subject of all power of civill government , and the priviledges thereof ; and if so , whether such consequences will follow as our brethren deduce from the unity , visibility , and priority of the catholich church . now we reduce what we intend into an argument , thus : if all that can be said from scripture and reason concerning the unity , visibility , and priority of the catholick church , may as truly be affirmed upon like grounds of the catholick body of mankinde , then á pari it will follow that there is no more one catholick visible instituted totum , that is the first subject of church power and priviledges in the actuall exercise and enjoyment of the same , then that there is such a catholick body of mankinde that is the first subject of civill power , &c. and that actually doth or ought to govern and be governed as one catholick body in communion : but it will appear from scripture and reason , that the same things may be said of mankind that can be said of the other ; ergo. and it is proved per partes , thus : for the unity ; are not all mankinde oft in scripture called the world ? joh. . . so god loved the world , that is , mankinde in the world ; which is one . so , frequently all mankinde is called man , gen. . , , . i will not strive with man , &c. yea , it is one kingdom , psal . . , , . which ( if we view the whole psalm ) must be understood of the generall government of gods providence over all the world , and especially mankinde therein , chron. . , . &c. so that all is one kingdom , acts . . god hath made of one blood all nations ; all are one blood , all have their bounds set by god , &c. that they might seek him , and feel after him ; and as it is said for one catholick church , because it hath one lord , one faith , one baptism , one spirit , and are bound to love and pray one for the other , &c. so there is a like unity here , for the whole number of mankinde hath one lord and king over all , god who is king over all the earth called an head over all , chron. . . yea , jesus christ is lord of lords , and king of kings , and head over all to the church , ephes . . . all have one law , the morall law , the common rule of equity and righteousness whereby they are bound to walk towards god and one another , and this writ in the hearts of all ; they have all one spirit of reason disposing them to society and mutuall offices of love , one faculty of speaking to fit them for communion , one end to feel after god , act. . and seek ye good of the whole kinde ; all ought to love one another , desire and seek the welfare of the whole , and of one another , esay . . yea , the lord as a common head by the working of his common providence , and out of his love of mankinde , hath a common and constant influence into all , giving not onely life and breath , and all good things , acts . but also all gifts of wisdom , art , skill , for government , &c. to kings , judges , fathers , masters , and all officers of civill government , for the good of the whole ; and what ever else may be said to prove the catholick church one , may here be applyed . and as for principles of reason , it is easie to conceive that all mankinde will fall either under the notion of one genus homo , whereof the individua are species specialissimae , or in another respect all persons , all families , cities , kingdomes may ( in a sense ) make one totum integrale , or aggregatum . secondly , it is as evident that all this number of mankinde are one visibile totum , by the arguments used for the visible catholick church , for that which hath visible parts , is a visible totum , it holds here as well as in the other case . yea , if the catholick church be one visible body , because it hath organs and visible officers in it , it will hold here , for all mankinde is but one army of the lord of hosts , who hath armies of heaven , and armies on earth , and in this body god by his providence hath set , and by his ordinance hath ordained fathers , masters , husbands , judges , kings , &c. to govern in this body of mankinde for the good of the whole . ruling and subjection by the fifth commandement of the morall law , which is in all mens hearts , is ordained of god for the order , peace , and welfare of all mankind , and therefore why is not this by the same reason a totum visibile ? thirdly , for priority , it is clear , that as god hath firstly in nature and intention given christ to the whole church , then to this and that particular beleever , and the power of feeding and being fed and governed by shepheards . first , to the whole race of sheep . secondly , to this or that flock . so in nature and gods intention he hath firstly given to the race of mankind power of being governed with government and governors , before they are given to this or that family , city , kingdom , &c. so likewise what is said of promises , given to the church catholick firstly ; is it not as true here ? those promises and blessings increase and multiply , subdue the earth and inhabite it . the feare and dread of you shall be on all beasts : and all like promises and priviledges of marriage , of liberty to eat flesh , &c. mentioned , gen. . & . and all over the scripture , are they not in nature first given to mankinde ? and then to this or that person , family , city ? so if church power , and all officers and offices be firstly given to the catholick church , not to this or that particular church : so it 's here , when the scripture saith , submit to the higher powers , for all powers are of god , rom. . by me , saith god , kings reign , and princes decree judgment , and such like scriptures ; doth this firstly belong to this or that kingdome , city , &c. and not rather that god hath firstly set up and ordained civil powers for mankind , to be obeyed of all mankinde firstly , and then in this or that state . is foederall holinesse first the priviledge of the catholick church ? ( which in a sense we will not now contradict ) so is legitimation , first the priviledge of married society in generall in all mankinde , and then of this or that family . are the members of particular churches firstly of the catholick church ; and is it not so here ? the members of every family , city , &c. first and last of the number of mankinde ; and so when the societies are dissolved , they are still of mankinde : and doe not all societies spring of mankinde , and are an additament and increase to it ? the one is true as well as the other . it would be over tedious to follow this parallel so farre as wee might , these may be sufficient instances to guide the reader to apply whatever else is , or can be said in this kinde from the common nature and logicall notions under which the catholick church visible may be considered : what is said that may more properly concern the case under the notion of an instituted society , we shall consider in due place . now from that which hath been said , the conclusion , as we conceive , doth easily and naturally follow , that as notwithstanding all that is said , there is no catholick visible body of mankinde , to which , or to the officers wherof is given the power and priviledges of civill government to rule this catholick body , either as one totum politicum ; or the parts of it , families , cities , kingdoms in communi , by subordination of all societies with reference to the whole ; or so as every king , major , &c. should be an officer of the whole . so these , and like consequences will not follow in respect of the guides , government , priviledges , &c. of the catholick church , notwithstanding all that is said from these considerations of unity , visibility , priority of nature , &c. object . if any shall object , the case is not alike , because in this catholick church were universall officers set up , as the apostles ; not so in the world of mankinde . ans . we say , these were but for a time in the first beginning for the setting up of the first order in all the churches ; who being dead , there is none to succeed them in that respect of catholick power . secondly , we say likewise , at the first for a time adam , and after noah , had a generall power over mankinde , though after them none had the like , as it is here . and therefore the comparison stil runs clear . object . if any object , as some doe , in answer to an argument somewhat like this , that this similitude holds not , because there is not that externall union of visible communion in the common-wealths of the world , as in the church ; if one say , god hath placed kings , dukes in the common-wealths , as in one organicall body who have one head , who giveth influence to so many organs of head , feet , &c. as the apostle speaketh of the body the church , cor. . then indeed all the common-wealths of the world would make but one body . answ . to the scripture alledged we shall speak after , here onely let us clear our parallel . and first take the similitude as it is stated by us , and it will be clear . first , compare the catholick number of mankinde , with the catholick church , which is the number of called ones , and then there is as much externall union of visible communion in one , as in the other . for , first , all mankinde may and ought to maintain civill communion one with another , in all offices of humanity , for the common good of the whole , as the members of the catholick church doe , or ought to doe ; and common humanity , and the command of the morall law binds thereto , as well as christianity and rules of the gospel bind here . secondly , if we compare civill societies , as families , cities , common-wealths with instituted churches , it is as possible , and as well the duty of all common-wealths in the world , by principles of humanity , and the morall law in all mens hearts , to maintain externall union of leagues of friendship , and communion in all offices of civill society , as it is possible , and the duty of all church societies , by the principles of christianity , and rule of the gospel to maintain externall union of visible communion in the duties of church society . thirdly , ( not to dispute here whether there be such an externall union of visible communion amongst all the visible churches , as parts of the church catholick ) if the reason alledged be sufficient to prove the same , viz. because there is one head in the church , who giveth influence to so many organs of head , feet , eyes , &c. in the church . then still our parallel will hold ; for as this head is no other then christ jesus in his spirituall kingdom , the church giving that influence named ; so the same lord that is king and head over all , chron. . . ephes . . . doth give influence to many organs in this body of mankinde , even to all kings , judges , fathers of families . and christ is the same in respect of all authority , power , gifts , administrations civill , &c. to this kingdome of men , as he is to the kingdom of his church of all power spiritual : and although the church be a body of nearer relation to christ , then the body of mankinde ; yet in regard of a common relation between a head and body there is a similitude , which is sufficient in this case . there is one thing more we meet withall that here we shall remove , viz. when it is objected that the catholick visible church cannot be one , because it cannot convent together in one society ; it is answered usually , that such comming together in one society is not needfull , because as a kingdom may be one , though all parts of it never meet together , having the same king , laws , &c. and as an army may be one , having the same generall , the same laws of discipline , the same cause , &c. though the severall brigades should never be drawn up into one body : so the catholick church having the same king , laws , cause , enemies , is but one though it never meet . to this we shall here reply so far as it lyes in our way : as all union is for communion , and all communion flows from union ; so look of what nature the union is , such , and no other is the communion ; and look of what nature the communion ought to be , of like nature ought the union to be , else it will not reach the end . and therefore here as the mysticall spirituall union of the catholick church to christ the head by faith , and to one another by love , is sufficient to afford spirituall communion with the same : so unto politicall communion there must bee a politicall union into one policy . and as the nature of politicall communion is , such must the nature of the union be , that it may reach the end . to apply this , a politicall church is instituted of christ for communion in all the worship and ordinances of christ instituted in the gospel , as the ministery of the word , the seales and discipline ; now no church as one can have communion with christ and one another in these things , but it must have a politicall union suitable thereunto , that is , they must be one society that can at least meet to combine together . and therefore if all churches make one politicall body , for politicall communion , it must be such an union as will reach that end , which cannot be imagined in such a catholick totum politicum as the catholick church . 't is true , distinct churches ( as distinct kingdoms ) may have communion in some politicall priviledges answerable to their union , consisting in a fraternall relation one unto another , yet not make up one body politicall ; of which we speak . secondly , to the similitudes brought , we answer , this whole kingdom or army is properly and clearly one politicall body under one politicall head the king or general , as stands by covenant as members of that one policy ; and those who have right to choose their king or generall , may and doe some time or other convene . let the like be shewed in the catholick church , that all politicall churches are moulded up into one politicall body , either de jure , or de facto , or that it is possible ( as the case stands ) so to be , and then the similitudes would be of some use . thirdly , in a kingdom or army , suppose they never meet , yet there is such politicall union as fully reaches the politicall communion for which end it was combined , viz. that they should enjoy peace and justice in and by a just government , or by the protection of the army . but if such a politicall body were combined to have such communion as a church-communion is , then it would require conventing together , as elswhere we shall more fully manifest : for our parts , we do not see that christ hath ordained the whole catholick church as one , to have politicall communion together , which is impossible . and therefore we see no need of such a politicall combination , but as he hath ordained a brotherly communion of counsell and helpfulnesse one to another , as need requires ; so a spirituall relation and brotherly consociation of churches together is union sufficient for such a communion . and thus far we have endevored to take away all those arguments which are built upon the generall considerations of the unity , visibility and priority of the catholick church , which we leave to the consideration and examination of the judicious . we shall now , ( as the lord shall helpe us ) come to cleare the state of this knotty controversie , as we think it ought to be stated and carryed . viz. what is that form of a politicall church which jesus christ in the gospel hath instituted and appointed as the subject of church power of government , and administration of all the ordinances of the gospel for actuall communion with christ , and one with another therein ? and here give us leave before we enter into the question it self , to make a little further use of our former similitude for illustration ; and then we will shew where the ne plus ultra , as we conceive must stand . it hath been shewed in respect of the body of mankinde , that although much may be said for the unity , visibility , and priority thereof before any parts of it , yet no reason will inforce that it is the first subject of civill power , &c. in respect of actuall administration , and immediate enjoyment thereof , and so here in respect of the church . we will now add but this one thing more , that notwithstanding all such reasons , yet in execution for the good of the whole , the least civill society , yea , a family may be , and is the first subject of civill power , and priviledges of civill government ; so the least politicall church society may be the first subject of these keys of church power in the exercise thereof , and of immediate communion in all visible ordinances , and we think that there by divine institution it is seated , and the edification and perfection of the catholick church may best be attained thereby . concerning families , we see no footsteps in the propagation of mankinde from adam and noah , of any soveraign or universall government , further then in the first fathers of mankinde , after whom as they increased , families went out , and combining made cities , and so common-wealths by mutuall consent , as in gen. . and other stories appear , except by the tyrannous usurpations of some as nimrod , the rest were brought under ; and this no doubt amongst any free people is still the most orderly , just and safe way of erecting all forms of civill government ; families to combine into townes , cities , kingdomes , or aristocraticall states . but here some will say ; if so , that according to this similitude , a particular congregation may be the first church that have the keys of church power , and church communion ; then as families should combine into towns and cities , and they into greater common-wealths , for the good of all mankinde ; so here these first churches may not stand independently , but ought to combine into greater bodies , till they come to be one whole church ; to this we say , this will not follow upon this evident reason , because civill societies and government thereof , is herein left to rules of humane prudence by the lord and governor of the whole world ; and therefore may admit various forms of government , various laws and constitutions , various priviledges , &c. according as men shall conceive best for themselves , so they be not against the common morall rules of equity , and the good of those societies : but here in the kingdom of christ as wee must attend what kinde of church he hath instituted , so we must cleave to such rules , priviledges , and forms of government and administrations as he hath ordained , not presuming to goe one step beyond the same . and hence it is not in the power of any church to alienate the power , rights , or priviledges christ have set in the same , or to mould up any other politicall churches then he hath appointed ; and here we conceive stands immovably the ne plus ultra of this similitude between the visible church , and the estate of mankinde in reference to power and government , &c. all which things well weighed , to us seems to overthrow all such intermediate forms of churches , or the usuall churches , as mr. ball calls the same ; as , classicall , provinciall , diocesan , nationall , patriarchicall , &c. which we see not how according to the rule of christ they can be constituted either descendendo , from the common nature of the catholick church ; or ascendendo ; from the combination of particulars , except institution can bee found for the same . we find indeed , that some endevor to build such forms upon the foundation of morall principles , and the law of nature ; as , that god hath given government to be over a multitude , and that of many societies , as well as persons , that one society may not suffer as well as one person ; and that therefore must be given of the god of grace to a society and multitude of little churches power of externall government . to which we answer ; that there is no such principle in nature that generally binds free societies to submit to one common government ; must many kingdoms , &c. by consequence all kingdoms combine in government , lest one kingdome bee hurt , i. must moab , ammon , edom , tyre , sydon , judea , &c. being so contiguous in near vicinity to each other , combine in one government ? is it not as suitable to morality and reason , in such combinations , that they set up one to rule over them , when many grow ignorant , evill , or heady , to preserve peace , and prevent wrong , as to set up many ? did abraham , lot , melchisedeck , and such family churches , walk against grounds of morality and nature , that did not so combine ? we might add more , but forbear ; but we could desire our dear brethren to be wary of scattering such principles ; for though in the matters of the church , and worship , and government of christ , grace doth not destroy nature , yet look as a particular church constitution and government was never erected by the law of nature ; but divine institution , so for the governing of many over one , why should there not be the like institution ? but to come more near to the case it self , we shall endeavour to clear two things : . that there is no catholick politicall church society instituted by christ , to which the actuall administration and participation of church government and communion in the instituted ordinances of christ , is given as to the first subject thereof . . that the true form of all church societies instituted by christ , to which he hath given the actuall administration and immediate participation of church government , and all other instituted ordinances , as the subject thereof , is onely congregationall . first , concerning the first , to make our discourse more distinct and plain , we shall premise here , that we doe not here at all take in , or respect that question about the power of the keys , whether it be in the fraternity or guides , ( we shall god willing have a fit place to speak something of it ) but here ( that we may not intermingle things ) we look onely at the true subject , in which , and unto which the actuall and immediate dispensation and participation of church government and outward ordinances is given by the institution of the gospel . and here we first reason thus , such a church society as christ instituted , the apostles of christ constituted and governed in : but the apostles never constituted such a catholick church society , or governed it in such a manner as is said : ergo. the proposition is evident , because the apostles were to do whatsoever christ commanded in matth. . . and were sufficiently furnished with power and wisdome so to doe : besides , the apostles having all power from christ as hee received from the father , john . and the whole number of beleevers being then at the fewest , there was never since such an opportunity or possibility to constitute such a church , if christ jesus had instituted such a thing . the assumption or second part of the reason is proved thus , if the apostles ever constituted and administred in such a church catholick , it was either that at jerusalem mentioned acts , & . &c. or that assembly that met , acts . ( for we meet with no other that can with any colour of reason bee supposed ) but neither of these were such a constituted church ; ergo. concerning the church named , acts . carryed on , acts . &c. we freely grant it was a constituted church , wherein the apostles with elders and deacons afterward chosen did govern , for as it is called a church , acts . . so likewise we see there were in it elections , act. . & and administrations of instituted ordinances of worship , acts . , . admission of members , chap. . , . and by the same reason there might have been excommunication also : but that this church was not the catholick church , we prove thus : if it were the catholick church , then it was such either in respect of the whole essence of the catholick church , or in respect of representation ; but neither ways : ergo. the first it could not be , because it consisted at the first but of . which was a very small part of the catholick number of visible beleevers ; for , cor. . . there were above brethren to whom christ appeared at once , which was but some few weeks before , besides all that in the jewish church were converted and baptized by john , which were very many ; yea , if we speak of the catholick church , properly all the jewish church , not yet dissolved , were part of the catholick church of that age visible . lastly , if it had been the catholick church , beleevers being already of it , could not be said to be added to this ; as , acts . , . secondly , it was not catholick in respect of representation , for if so , then in respect of the apostles onely as the catholick guides , or in respect of the whole assembly with them , acts . not the first , for then the apostles onely should have had power to set apart barnabas and ma●…thias , but it is evident that that election was by peter himself committed to , and acted by the whole company called the brethren and disciples , acts . , , . where it appears that as he spake to all , so it was concluded with the common suffrages of all . secondly , if so , because the apostles were catholick guides , then where-ever they met was a catholick church , yea , where two or three , or any one of them was , there was the catholick representative church , and so many such churches , for any two or one had the catholick power as well as all ; paul ordains , rules , and orders of discipline in all the churches , as well as if all the apostles had met , cor. . . cor. . . that assembly was not the representative catholick church , because , first , there were the women in the same , now women are no way capable of being messengers to represent churches : secondly , besides , these could not be representative messengers from other churches , because this was the first constituted church ; we see no colour of reason that there were any other constituted visible churches before this . lastly , all the actions of that church mentioned , especially those in acts . , . of admission of members , baptism , word , seales , fellowship day by day in such ordinances , choice of deacons , &c. speak aloud against a representative church , we should rather have heard of constitutions , censures , &c. from such a representative catholick church of generall counsell . object . we are not ignorant what is said to the contrary , viz. that it was the catholick church , because they elected a catholick officer for the whole church , viz. an apostle . ans . to which we answer ; all the catholick church and guides thereof had no power so to do , no more then a particular church , being a case reserved to christ himself , else pauls argument to prove his apostleship had not been strong ; because he was not called by man , but by christ himself , and had seen the lord , &c. gal. . . cor. . . the act of the church was onely a preparatory act thereunto with an after consent : the election was properly done immediately by a lot , and what was done might as well be done in the first particular church guided by the infallible spirit of the apostles , as by the catholick church it self . object . secondly , it is objected , many of these were men of galilee , which by their habitation could not pertain to the church in jerusalem . answ . true , the apostles and others were of galilee , but they had forsaken all to follow christ , and were commanded by christ to remain a time at jerusalem , and then to goe forth to samaria , judea , and the utmost parts of the earth , acts . , . and therfore no church relation in galilee could hinder them from joyning in this first constituted church , or give any colour that they came as members representative from any churches in galilee . and so much for the plea for a catholick church from acts . &c. now concerning that which is supposed of a catholick church representative in act. . if it were such , then in respect of the apostles ( the catholick officers ) onely , or in respect of the body of the assembly also , but in neither respects : ergo. not the first , for then as was said , any one apostle may make a representative catholick church , having the whole power , as much as all of them together ; for though they would meet oft to consult and assist one another ; yet not for defect of power in any one ; and we think our brethren here will not say it was in respect of the apostles alone , supposing here they acted rather as elders with the rest , then out of their apostolicall power . not in respect of the whole assembly , for then that assembly must consist of the messengers of all the particular churches , and the decrees should have been directed to all the churches ; but neither of these can appear ; for , first , wee read of no other messengers but those from antioch , and how to evince more then the scriptures reveal , is hard . secondly , if we look back and consider how far the gospel was spread before this assembly , it will appear very strange and absurd to suppose such a thing ; for paul had been in arabia before ever he came to ierusalem , gal. . . and when he and barnabas went sent out from antioch , acts . they went to severall islands and countreys , as cyprus , paphos , salamis , &c. besides what other places scattered christians and apostles had preached in : now there is no probability of messengers sent from all these places . secondly , the decrees were expresly directed to the gentiles beleeving , in antioch , syria , and cilicia , where it seems this question had troubled the minds of the disciples , acts . , . which was far short of the catholick church ; neither is it proved that the churches of syria and cilicia had any messengers there , much lesse that all the churches had their messengers . object . but it is said , they might have had their messengers there , if they would , and therefore they were bound to the decrees as of a generall councell . answ . it must first be proved , that all churches had lawfull summons to send their messengers to that assembly , before there can be laid any blame on them for neglecting the same , or they be all tyed to the decrees of such an assembly as a generall councell , which seems to us not so much as probable , much lesse to be proved by any where the scripture is so silent . argument . every politicall body is constituted by the combination of all the members into a society . but christ hath not instituted that the catholick church should combine into a society . ergo. propos . proved , because there can be no instances given of any free society , civill or sacred , that was under policy , but that it arose from combination . how came israel to be one nationall church , but by a national covenant ? and that before it had officers ; or how comes any nationall , provinciall , classicall church that are pleaded for to be such , but by some such combination ? why is this church of this classis not of another but by combination ? secondly , in a politicall body , the whole hath power to order every part , but this power among persons that are free , is onely by combination . assump . proved : first , because christ never instituted that which is impossible , as this is , for the catholick visible church in every age so to doe . secondly , christ ordained combination for communion in his worship , but this communion also is impossible to the catholick church as one : ergo. thirdly , corrupt churches are visible churches , but it is hard for us to beleeve , or any to prove that christ hath instituted such combination of all churches , asian , african , european , american , corrupt and uncorrupt , for prudent men may easily foresee the heavy consequents thereof . argument . every politicall church by the institution of christ hath power to elect her own pastor or pastors over it . but the catholick visible church hath not such power : ergo. proposit . proved . this all scripture examples shew , that every church or flock of beleevers had her pastor , act. . tit. . secondly , ( according to our brethrens principles ) if a particular church may choose a pastor , much more the catholick , because all priviledges are primarily given to the catholick church , and what belongs to the part of a similar body , ( as a part ) that much more belongs to the whole . assump . proved first , if the catholick church may choose pastors over it , then they may make apostles , because catholick pastors over the catholick church . secondly , the reasons against an universall bishop are strong here , as that their office is not described in the word , nor their power able to reach all churches . if it be said , that the catholick church can choose her pastors in the parts or particular societies , which are pastors of the catholick church , though not catholick pastors of the catholick church . answ . if this be meant of the particular churches choosing pastors over themselves , who are in some respects for the good of the whole , ( as being partes partium , and so partes totius ) then they come to our hand , for thus it appears that there is no catholick t●…tum , that is the subject of officers but in its parts . but the question is , whether all particular churches having the officers in them , do make one political body or catholick church , and so have power to choose catholick pastors . argument . christ jesus instituted no such politicall body as destroys church policy . but such a catholick church politicall destroys policy : ergo. assump . proved : because it swallows up the power not onely of all churches congregationall , but all other forms of churches , by taking the power of excommunication from them ; for the power of excommunication is seated by christ in that church , from which there can be justly no appeal , for matth. . the power of excommunication is seated in such a church , as whatsoever it binds on earth , is bound in heaven by the highest judge , in the highest court ; and from the sentence of this highest court and judge , how can there be any appeal ? but now supposing such a catholick church having power of excommunication , and that as the highest church , hence no inferior church can binde on earth , so as that the same is bound in heaven , seeing appeales may be made from them to an higher power on earth . object . if it be said that the sentence of an inferior judge , proceeding rightly ( as in an inferior sanhedrin ) is ratified in heaven , yet may we appeale from him . answ . we deny that the sentence of every civill court doth binde in heaven ( in the sense of our saviour : ) for every civil court hath not this promise of binding and loo●…ing , the power of the keys not belonging to the civill magistrate . secondly , suppose there were such a binding in civill courts , and appeals may be yet made from them , yet this is because there is supposed a supreme court in being , to which the appeale may be prosecuted and there determined , ( as in the highest sanhedrin of israel . ) but there is not in the church , nor like to be , such a supreme court where such appeals may be ended : ergo. objection . if it be said , that what a particular church binds on earth is bound in heaven , except they erre , but then appeals may be made , and their power is gone . answ . on this ground the universall church should not have power to bind on earth so as in heaven without appeales , for they may erre ; and that not onely rarely but frequently ; witnesse the complaint of nazianzen and others of the time passed ; yea , they may be as much inclined to erre , considering the greatest part of churches in the world are for the most part corrupt , yea , though they may have better eyes , yet they are further from the mark ; if particular churches have no power of excommunication , because they may erre , be corrupt , be partiall , or be divided ; upon the same consideration , neither classicall , nationall , or oecumeniall councells have any such power ; for they may erre , grow corrupt , be partiall , and be miserably divided , as well as a congregationall church ; other churches may admonish in case of scandall , and counsell , when a particular congregation wants light ; and moderate ( if desired ) in case of difference ; but still the power is in the particular church . other arguments might be added , but seeing this controversie , as we hope , will be more fully and purposely disputed by a farre better hand , therefore we shall fall to the consideration of such scriptures , and some few generall arguments which we meet withall in mr. ball briefly propounded , and in divers other authors more largely insisted upon ; which if the lord be pleased to helpe us to vindicate and clear up , we think other reasons and scriptures of lesse force will fall of themselves . and first we finde , cant. . . &c. to prove the whole catholick church visible to be one ministeriall body , because it is called one , compared to an army terrible with banners , in respect of the order of discipline , and described as being an organicall body having eyes , hair , teeth , &c. answ . theologia symbolica non est argumentativa , except it can be made clear that the parable is applyed according to the true scope of it , and no further , which here is very hard to evince : we know the whole book of the canticles is variously applyed by good interpreters , brightman ( none of the meanest in this kinde of scriptures ) applyes this place to the church of geneva , and the times of purer churches to arise after it , which are said to be terrible as an army with banners ; not in respect of discipline , but in respect of warlike power , whereby that state of the church shall defend it self . but suppose that it is a description of the catholick church visible , yet it cannot be a sufficient argument that it is one ministeriall church : for , first , the catholick church is the same in all ages , and therefore by this reason it was a catholick ministeriall body , as well in the days from adam to abraham , &c. as in the new testament . secondly , by this argument we may prove christ the head and husband of the church to be an organicall body , as he is the head of the church , for cant. . , . &c. the church doth allegorically describe the beauty and excellency of christ , in severall organs and parts : but we suppose though christ jesus in his humane nature hath members , yet the scope of the church is not at all to set forth the members of his humane body , but the glorious excellencies , and spirituall perfections of christ as the redeemer and saviour of his church , according to the manner of lovers , who are taken with the beauty of their spouses in all their members ; when the spouse saith , cant. . . let him kisse me with the kisses of his mouth ; it were too grosse to apply it to the humanity of christ , or to argue from thence that christ the husband of his church is an organicall body . thirdly and lastly , when the church is called one , the onely one of her mother ; though it 's true she is one , it seems rather to set out her excellency as rare , and but one , then her unity : and so the other descriptions all tend to set forth her beauty in the eye and esteem of christ ; neither is it any thing that the church is compared to an army terrible with banners , for in the same chap. vers . the last , she is compared to the company of mahanaim , or two armies , ( which is all one ) for the company of mahanaim consisted of two armies , gen. . , , . where jacobs host meeting an host of angels , he calls the place mahanaim , or , two hosts ; and therefore we may as well say the catholick church is terrible , with two armies of banners , as one . answ . a second and chief scripture we meet withall in divers authors is cor. . , . &c. whence the reason stands thus ▪ that church wherein apostles , prophets , teachers , &c. are set , is an organicall church . but those are set in the catholick visible church ; ergo. for the better clearing of this scripture , it is needfull , that we attend the scope of the apostle , who comming now to another branch of the things this church had written unto him about , chap. . . & . . & . . and this about spirituall gifts , wherein they abounded , chap. . . being the occasion of all their contentions and disorders , chap. . , . hence he is studious the more to re-unite them again , chap. . . and to direct them how to improve their gifts orderly to edification , chap. . and in this chapter he perswades their minds to unity who were divided , partly through pride in their own gifts ; partly , by disdain of others not so gifted ; hence he puts them in minde ; what once they were following dumb idols . that all gifts are from the free dispensation of god , and that one god , one lord , one spirit . that god in his wisdom hath dispensed great variety of gifts , operations and administrations . that all are given to profit withal , and these things he illustrates by a simile taken from a naturall body , which having largely presented and applyed to this church , vers . . he concludes with the variety of administrations in such things wherein they so much differed , chap. . , . god hath set , saith he , in the church not onely apostles , or prophets , or tongues , &c. but all these ; are all apostles ? are all prophets , & c ? no , but the wisdom of god hath given you variety of these gifts and administrations ; and therefore , chap. . to quiet them , he saith , paul an apostle , apollos an evangelist , &c. all are yours ; and as this is the scope of the apostle , so we see nothing in the chapter but is appliable to corinth in particular , yea , applyed unto them by the apostle , as what he spake vers . . of one body , he applyes to them , vers . . what he spake , vers . . of apostles , and other gifts set in the church , he applyes also to them , chap. . whereas he speaks of the exercise of divers gifts in that church , when the whole church came together , vers . , so he speaks the same of himself an apostle , vers . . when i come , &c. we take notice of divers reasons alledged from the chapter , that he spake of the catholick church , but they doe not inforce it ; for grant such things are true of the catholick church in a sense , viz. that in it god works all in all , in it are diversities of gifts , &c. yet the apostles scope is to speak to this church , as hath been shewed , and all are truly applyable unto it , this church came behinde in no good gift , chap. . . this church was one body , vers . . and baptized into one body , whether jews or gentiles , bond or free , the members of this church needed the helpe one of another , must not make schismes in the body , must care one for another , &c. yea , apostles as well as other gifts were in the church , cor. . . cor. . . so that from the scope and drift of the apostle , all these offices and gifts might be , and were set in corinth , and therefore this place will not evince a catholick organicall body ; yet we mean not that apostles were wedged in here , but they were set also in every church , as also teachers are in every church , but each according to the nature of the office , the one limited , the other not . secondly , we deny not but in this discourse the apostle also , vers . , . intendeth the whole mysticall body of christ , which is one christ , neither doe we deny that these gifts of apostles , prophets , &c. are given to this church , but this will not prove it to be an organicall church . for what is this body of christ , this one christ into whom all are baptized , &c. it is properly the whole company of true beleevers in all ages , and so containes the invisible body of christ ; which catholick body of all ages , cannot properly make an organicall body : and be it so , that this body is visible , having visible ordinances , baptized and drunk into one body , yet the apostle respects the ●…eall union of all the members to christ ; and therefore i 〈…〉 understand spirituall and effectuall baptism , containing the inward vertue with the outward sign . again , the apostles were 〈◊〉 for the gathering 〈◊〉 of the elect amongst all the heathen and 〈◊〉 , but that proves not all those elect ( who also are a part of christs sheep , john in ●● . ) were an organicall church , or a part of it , till called and added to the church . in a word , apostles , prophets , &c. were given to , and set in the mysticall body of christ , as the chief object had and for whose sake and good they were intentionally ordained of christ , but not set in it as one organicall body , for the actuall and immediate administration of the visible ordinances of christ to it , but thus 〈…〉 , as gathered into such church societies as the lord hath 〈◊〉 for that end , and in this sense we agree with 〈◊〉 mr. 〈…〉 of the right 〈…〉 pag. ●… . a●● ( saith he ) to what ●…nd , and to what first principall subject hath the lord given reason , and the fa●…ulty to disco●… as it is peter , john , &c. as to the first subject , and to them as for their good ▪ no , no , it is 〈◊〉 , and for the race of mankind . the case is just so here , . cor. . ●… . god hath set apostles , &c. we say also it is just so here , as god hath given reason in respect of the end to mankinde first , and then to the individu●● ; so god hath set in the mysticall church for the good of it , as chiefly intended by christ , apostles , prophets , &c. but now as in the 〈◊〉 all dispensing of this gift of reason for the good of mankinde , reason is not given to any such body , as the whole race of mankinde , to descend to john , peter , &c. but first to john , peter , and all the individualls , that so by induction of all particulars , the whole kinde of reasonable man may be made up , and the end attained , and so it is here : god in giving officers and gifts for the good of the mysticall body of christ firstly , yet in execution gives these officers , and sets them in particular churches , that by the edification and perfection of all particulars , the whole may be attained . thirdly , apostles , prophets , and all gifts and offices in generall and indefinitely , are given to the church indefinitely considered , but particular officers , paul , cephas , apollo , titus , arabippus , &c. are given or set in particular churches ; we mean , according to the severall natures and extents of their offices ; as unto bees in generall ingi●●● a power to gather honey , and order themselves in their hives ; but in their exercise of this power it is given to the severall swarms in the hives , who have their queens , &c. to order themselves . but as this power in generall makes not a universall organicall body of bees ; no more here an universall organicall church . lastly , to speak more particularly , we conceive that the place in the utmost latitude of it is meant of the mysticall body , that one body into which all are baptized ; vers . . and that the fundamentall mistake of our brethren is this , that because the church here mentioned hath organs and politicall officers in it , that therefore it must needs make one politicall church , where some organs are to rule in common , and every part is to be subject to the whole . for although the mysticall church hath organs and politicall officers in it ; yet it follows not therefore that it is one politicall body . for the invisible church conjoyned with the visible , hath politicall officers set in it , and given to it as invisible , as well as visible , in respect of gods generall designation and particular application of them to this whole church ; yet it follows not that they are one politicall body by actuall combination thereunto ; actuall combination , we say , for although christs institution must warrant and prescribe all forms of politicall bodies , yet it will not be found that ever there was any politicall society without actuall combination , whether civill or sacred , whether nationall or more particular . the mysticall church may be said to be organicall in respect of the officers amongst them in the severall parts thereof ; every part being a part of the whole spiritually , though not politically . but it doth not thence follow that the whole is one politicall body , but mysticall . politicall officers may , and must suppose some part of the church to be visible , but not that the whole should be politicall . for the apostles ( by extraordinary commission for their time were officers of visible beleevers , fit matter for a combination , as well as of particular combinations : yet it follows not that visible beleevers existing out of combinations were a politicall society that would never meet to combine ; but they were onely a visible number of saints . we have been thus large in clearing this scripture , because we conceive the chief strength of the contrary opinion to lye in it . and this being answered , the light of it we hope will scatter the darknesse that is brought upon divers other scriptures which are drawn to prove such a kinde of catholick church , as rom. . . &c. col. . . tim. . ●… . ephes . . . in which last scripture we never doubted but that the officers were given , not for that particular church of ephesus onely , much lesse to such a diminutive congregation consisting of , , or onely , as if we intended to i●…pawn all power in this or that congregational body ; but to a congregationall church considered as the genus of all particular congregations of the world . neither to this congregationall church onely , but to all that are to be gathered to the unity of the faith . but doth this argue one politicall body consisting of all these ? for though , ve●…s . . the whole body be said to be compacted ; yet that this should be understood of a politicall , not spirituall way of compacting , we confesse ( with submission ) our weaknesse cannot apprehend . the last scripture which we find cited that seemeth to look this way , is pet. . . feed the flock which is among you . answ . we answer : it must necessarily be understood distributively , for the severall flocks in all those countreys to be fed by their particular elders ; not collectively , to be fed as one flock in common : for the countreys are so many and large , as it was impossible . yea , we have a clear parallel , james . . where writing to the jews of the twelve tribes scattered abroad , yet he speaks of a man comming into their assembly ; which cannot be meant collectively , as if they had one assembly amongst them all , but distributively of any assembly . though they bee called a flock , not flocks , yet this , as r●…imes observes , was not because it was one flock really in themselves , but in some respect of reason ; which also he expounds to be per internam ( we had rather say , spiritualem ) unionem , but not per externam combinationem ; in respect of which spirituall union , that is true which mr. ball citeth out of cyprian , etsi pastores multi sumus , unam tamen greg●…m pascimus . as also that there is episcopatus unus & ecclesia una in ●…oto mundo . hence also may appear an answer to divers arguments , the chief whereof we shall run through . objection . if by baptism we are not admitted into one particular church , but into the whole catholick visible church , cor. . . then there is such a catholick church . answ . baptism admitteth us into the whole mysticall body of christ , whether visible or invisible of all ages : but this is not a catholick politicall body , of which we speak ; for then every baptized person should be a member of every particular church , and have an oare in every boat , in electing officers , admitting members , censuring offenders , &c. which mr. ball will not grant , and indeed would bring in endlesse confusion into the churches of christ . besides , no man can be a member of any combined society without their consent , for otherwise so many may croud into the church because baptized , as shall overthrow the edification thereof , and that against the consent of the church , and all the officers thereof . objection . when any scandalous person is delivered to satan , he is cast out of the whole catholick church , ergo , he was a member of the whole catholick church , for he cannot be cast out who was never within . answ . some answer that he is cast out of all onely consequenter , by reason of communion of churches ; neither doe we see that this is taken away by saying , that , as when the left hand cutteth off a finger of the right hand , it is not the left hand onely that cuts it off , but the whole man , deliberate reason and will consenting : for if this similitude would suit , then the whole catholick church must be called to consult and consent antecedenter , before a particular church can cut off any member , which ordinarily is impossible to be attain'd . but further according to our former principles laid down , we say he that is justly cast out of one church , he is morally excommunicated out of all , but not politically and formally : for to excommunicate politically and formally , is by vertue of a superior authority next under christ ; so that what is bound by them , is bound in heaven . in which act the minister doth not onely bind the person , but also by vertue of his office chargeth the church not to have communion with him . but we doe not think that our brethren will say that one church putteth forth such an act of superior authority binding or charging all churches politicè and judicialit●…r not to have communion with him ; for so one church should exercise jurisdiction over all churches , and that without their actuall approbation , for , quod spectat ad 〈◊〉 , debat ob 〈◊〉 approbari . if it be said , that a particular church doth excommunicate by an intrinsecall power not onely in it self , but intrinsicall in the whole body ; the question will be , what is that intrinsicall power ? is it naturall or voluntary ? to say it is naturall , were too absurd ; it voluntary , then neither congregations , classes , provinces , nations , have power to excommunicate without the previous consent of the whole catholick church , which must voluntarily concurr thereunto . and if the catholick presbytery ( as 〈◊〉 said ) have no next , but a a remote power of excommunication , and this remote power bee extraordinary , or rare contingens , or almost never , then the ordinary power of excommunication , ( which is enough for us ) is not from an intrins●…call power of the church catholick . on the other side ( if it be said ) this power is in the whole , but not derived from the whole to the parts , as the power of seeing is first in the man , then in the eye , yet not derived from hands , leggs , shoulders , &c. and as the great body of the sunn hath intrinsecall light in every part , not by derivation from one part to another ; so this power of the keys is from christ the head to all the integral parts in points that severally concern the same . first , if this be so , then every particular congregation receives its power of the keys immediately from christ , not by derivation from any presbytery , or the catholick church , and is in that respect independent . neither also can congregations derive the power seated in them to presbyteries , nor any greater bodies take it from them . secondly , though we acknowledge this intrinsecall power of excommunication in particular congregations , as being there properly seated by christ ; yet that there are any such politicall churches , classicall , provinciall , nationall , or catholick , that have any such intrinsecall power as is in the sunn , this is not yet proved to our understanding ▪ we deny ●…ot the use of lesser and greater synod●… , nor of such doctrinall power o●… the pa●●ern acts . holdeth forth , and which is all that learned * m●… . rutherford conceives to belong to a generall councell ; for thus he saith , verily , i professe i cannot see wh●● power of jurisdiction t●… censure scandalls can be in a generall councell , there ma●…ke some 〈◊〉 doctrinall power in such a c●…uncell , if such could be had and that is all . and how a nationall , provinciall , or classicall synod being lesser parts of the whole , can put forth such acts as the whole cannot do , ipsi vid●…rint . 't is t●…ue , a particular church may formally cast out a scandalous member according to the rule , matth. . yet the argument from proportion will not hold in 〈◊〉 of the power of excommunication in greater assemblies against any particular church offending , ( though other means appointed by christ we deny not ) for if excommunication casteth out an offender out of all churches , then such a particular church cannot be excommunicated , except it could be cast out of it self , though it may be deprived of the communion of other churches . lastly , if it be no sin , ( as is said ) but a crosse , that the catholick church cannot meet to put forth its supposed int●…insecall power , then let the particular churches enjoy that power till the catholick church can meet . a it seems to us very strange that the lord jesus should institute such a supreme power in a catholick body , which ( a●… is said ) de jure , should be till the comming of christ , and yet should be interrupted by the sin of man so many ages , and which ( for ought appeares ) never orderly met to this day . objection . if all pastors be pastors of the catholick church , then there is such a catholick church ; but all pastors are pastors of the catholick church : ergo. answ . if it be meant thus , that they are pastors of some particular part of the church , and in that respect in the whole , and for the good of the whole , the good of every part redo●…nding to the good of the whole ; yea , if some pastorall care also be intended towards other churches , and to fetch in such as are yet not of the church ; we grant all this according to the meaning of that pl●…ce , cor. . . formerly opened by us . but if this argument intend that they are pastors of the catholick body as of one politicall church , then we deny the assumption upon this ground ; because a pastorall office consi●…ts properly i●… having a charge and power over those to whom he is a pastor , act. . ●… . but he hath no charge of the whole ; for if so , he must give account to christ of the whole ; neither hath he power over such a catholick church , being never chosen by it , ●…or it subjecting to him . if it be said , such are made pastors by ordina●…ion of the presby●●●● ▪ not the election of the people who onely appropriate him to themselves ▪ who is a pastor of the whole church then he is either a catholick pastor that hath power to int●… 〈◊〉 in all churches , as the apostles had , which we think none will ye●…l●… them ▪ or else they are pastors onely in name , without power which is absurd ▪ nor doth the similitude of a 〈◊〉 made doctor of physick at large by a colledge of physitians , helpe in this case . for it supposeth him to be made such ●… doctor before he be elected by any people to exercise this faculty ; which apply●…d to this case of a pastor , ●…s having ordination to make him a pastor at large , before election to th●● or that people is utterly against all examples of scri●●ure , 〈◊〉 act●… . & ●… . & , objection . that whi●● belongeth to a little part of a similar body ( and t●…lis ) belonge to a greater part much more , and therefore if the imm●…di●…te exercise of the keys b●…long to a single congregation , then much more to the whole , and to 〈…〉 of the whole . answ . such as say that the catholick church is a similar body , had need explicate the●…selves . for to speak properly and strictly , by this ●…ile every particular visible beleever being a part of the whole as a 〈…〉 , must have nomen & naturam totius , and so every beleever is a church ; or if they so divide this catholick similar body , as to make a particular congr●…gation that can joyn in gods ordi●…anc●● , the 〈◊〉 quod st●… then particular visible beleever●… considered as existing out of these congregations cannot be m●…mbers formally of the catholick visible church . we a●… knowledge the catholick church considered as visible and invis●●●● , i●… one spirituall or mysticall body , yet this catholick body is under ●…o catholick policy ; but onely in the severall parts of it , ( 〈◊〉 hath been proved before ) and in this respect the church , which is spiritually one body , is politicè many bodies : so that the parts of this spirituall totum are not distinct bodies 〈…〉 , ( for then every company of women are a church body ) but 〈…〉 ; and hence though the catholick church 〈…〉 body spiritually , ( due cautions and interpretations observed ) yet it is not one similar body politically ; and hence every society of beleevers is not a church . hence though it be true , that what belongs to a part of a similar body , as a part , belongeth much more to the whole ; and that therefore what belongs to a particular church , belongs much more to the whole : it is true in this sense , viz. what belongs to the part of the whole as spirituall , and so participates the nature of the whole , belongs much more to the whole , because the whole is spirituall : yet what belongs to the part as politicall , doth not much more belong to the whole , because the whole is not politicall : exempli gradi●… , consider a particular congregation , as a number redeemed , called to christ , 〈◊〉 to him , this much more belongs to the whole ; and so if any priviledge belong to them as such , much more to the whole . ye●… consider a church as a combined body , so what belongs to this part , belongs not to the whole . for it belongs to the part to elect and enjoy constantly pastors over it , but this doth not belong to the whole as a totum . the catholick mysticall church is indeed the prima materia , out of which politicall churches by their combination are formed , but it is no first formed politicall similar church , whence every particular church immediately participates of the nature of that whole ; having 〈…〉 tem talis materiae & partem form●… . answ . objection . if there be church communion between all churches , then there is one catholick church : but there is church communion of all churches in hearing , receiving sacraments , exhorting one another , praying one for another , &c. ergo. we deny the consequence ; for there may be a ●…ra●●●nall , ecclesiasticall communion , not onely internally , but externally , without such an union as makes one politicall combined body , such as here we dispute of ; as , two or three congregations may have communion together , and yet not be one politicall body : twenty synagogues might have communion together in the jewish policy , and yet were not one politicall body : so the churches of galatia might have communion together , yet were distinct churches , not one church , a●… also , the churches of new england have sweet and blessed comm●…nion , yet are distinct . and though the churches of gala●…ia were called a whole l●…mp , ( as is objected ) yet were they thus by politicall combination , or as dr. downam ( to mould up a diocesan church ) compares the first church to a great lump of dough , or batch of bread , out of which particular churches were formed into many loaves ; or not rather called a lump by spirituall union and relation , common profession , and fraternall communion , being all the same countrey-men ; so also the apostles had church communion , yet were not a politicall body . kingdoms so may have civil communion and commerce , yet not be one kingdom . objection . if the keys be given to a particular church under the notion of the spouse of christ , a flock of redeemed ones , &c. and then much more to the catholick visible church , which is the spouse of christ , and flock of redeemed ones primarily , and to a particular church onely secondarily ; but the first is affirmed by such as deny such a catholick church : ergo. answ . it is true , the notion of a flock of redeemed ones of the body , and spouse of christ , kingdom , house , &c. doe agree primarily to the church , not of this , but of all ages , and secondarily to the church of this age , colos . . . ephes . . , . and . . the church which is the body of christ existing in this age , the keys are given to it primarily , in comparison of particular churches coexisting with it , as to the chief object and end ; but not to it as a politicall body , in respect of actuall and immediate dispensation thereof : for ( as we have oft said ) if in respect of politicall dispensation the keys belong firstly to the body of christ as his spouse and redeemed ones ; then the church invisible as invisible , rather then visible , must have the dispensation of the keys primarily . it is not said , that the keys are immediately given to a particular church abstractly , as a number of redeemed , but as consociated and politically combined : and in this respect that may be attributed to the part , a particular congregation of redeemed ones , which cannot be attributed to the whole . ex. gr . such a congregation is combined , so is not the whole , nor can be ; such a church may choose a pastor over it , but so cannot the whole ; so a man may tell the particular church , who may convene together , not so the whole . thus far ( through the helpe of christ ) we have endevoured to clear the first point propounded concerning a catholick instituted church . we come now to prove the second point , viz. that jesus christ hath instituted in the gospel a particular church of one congregation , in which , and unto which the actuall and immediate dispensation and participation of all instituted worship doe regularly and ordinarily belong . and here we shall shew : what such a particular church is . how the dispensation of church power and priviledge do belong unto it . for the first , we shall declare our selves in these five propositions . it must be a visible society , for one man cannot make a church , nor can many visible beleevers living severally , without society in severall nations make one church . it 's not every society of visible professors that doe make a church , for then every family of such professors are a church : then two or three ( which our brethren so much condemn ) are a church ; and then a society of women professing the truth may be a politicall church ; then many members of severall churches met to hear a sermon , or any like occasion , make a church ; then a number of professors may constitute a diocesan church , or any like form ; for out of this block , that any number of beleevers made a church , dr. downam hewed out his diocesan church , and so made a fit seat for his diocesan mercury . lastly , then particular churches should have no more any set form prescribed , then civill government , which is as variable as humane wisdome sees meet , for hence a particular church may be melted into any form or mould of civil society ; for imagine a number of professing beleevers , cohabiting either in a city , hundred , wapentake , shire , province , nation , empire , &c. there shall then be so many forms of churches contrary to the principles and unanswerable arguments of our best reformers , who accounted it a great absurdity that the heavenly kingdome of christ should be moulded and framed according to the weaknesse of humane wisdome and policy . it must therefore be a society combined , and that by a covenant explicite or implicite , for it must be such a combined society where the whole have power over its members ; now whatever power one hath over another , if it be not by way of conquest or naturall relation , ( as the father over the childe ) it is by covenant , as husband and wife , master and servant , prince and people ; other powers are but usurpations : it is noted as a prophane speech in bronnus , who professed he knew no other rule of justice , then for the greater to subdue the lesse . again , it is such a society as hath an ordinate power , to subject it self to officers , by electing of them to administer ordinances amongst them ; but this is onely a federall society . again , it is such a society , to the making up of which is required something more then faith , acts . . beleevers were added to the lord , or to his church ; so that they were first beleevers , before they were added to the church ; for there may be a number of beleevers converted at one sermon , and immediately scattered into many towns or countreys : now , if faith professed alone , makes not a church , but somewhat more is required , what can that be but foederall combination ? lastly , that , the dissolution whereof doth unchurch a people , doth constitute a church : but breaking the combination dissolves the church , whether by consent , schism , or when god himself removes the candlestick : ergo. though a church be such by combining , and so subjecting themselves to the power of others , yet it must not be herein illimited , but according to the form and mould expressed in the word ; for if they have this power to combine as many , and as largely as they will , then a diocese , province , nation , may combine , and so put themselves under the power of a diocesan , provinciall ▪ nationall society , which is unlawfull ; for the church must be such a form as a man may ordinarily bring offences unto it , according to matth. . tell the church ; but that cannot be in a diocese , much lesse in a province or nation , where the members can neither take notice of the offence , nor ordinarily so much as consent unto any censure acted by any officers in such a church ; nay , further , if their power be unlimited , they may choose a diocesan pastor , one , or many to feed all , or one to rule ( like beza his episcopus humanus ) with subjection in case of error to the censure of all ; nay , hence we see not , but they may choose an universall pastor , and so give away the power to one , if all will agree . in a word , they onely may combine into a politicall body , where the whole may excommunicate any part ; but this cannot be in a combination of many churches into one whole , because no particular church is capable of excommunication , for it is impossible to be cast out of it self , as was said before . a particular church therefore must be such a society as is so combined together , that it may ordinarily enjoy church communion , to exercise church power , to be fed by her officers , and led by them ; hence titus was to set elders in every church , and these elders were such as could ordinarily feed them , by preaching the word , as well as rule and govern them . now that such a congregationall church is the institution of the gospel , appears first by those many scriptures that speak of the churches of one countrey , and in small compasse , as severall churches , not as one , as the churches of judea , samaria , and galilee , acts . the churches of galatia , gal. . . yea , not only in one small countrey , but in cities , or near unto them ; we read of distinct churches , as corinth , though god had much people ▪ there , yet it was one congregation , cor. . . and had another church near to it , viz. cenchrea : also rome , whom the apostle saluting , sends also salutations by them to aquila and priscilla , with the church in their houshold , which shew they were not far from that church of rome . to these add , that jerusalem the first church that was constituted by the apostles , and whose number was the greatest of any that we read of , yet it was but one congregation , as is evident by acts . and chap. . , . what is objected against this to prove it the catholick church , was answered before ; other objections against this , and like examples , shall be considered in their due place , as we meet with them . but we shall not need to say much , that a congregation furnished with its officers is a church according to the institution of the gospel , but there are more objections against the compleatnesse thereof , which yet is proved thus , that church which hath power of all the keys given unto it for actuall administration within it self , is a compleat church : but so hath a particular congregation , ergo. the first part is evident ; because where all the keys are with full power to administer the same , there nothing is wanting ; the assumption is proved thus , if all those officers to whom is given the authoritative power of exercising the keys , be given to a congregation ; then all the keys are so given to it , but so it is ; for since apostles and extraordinary officers ceased , there are no other officers but pastors , teachers , and rulers , called sometimes bishops , sometimes elders : but these officers are given to such a church , as is proved acts . tit. . . and is acknowledged in all reformed churches , who ordain such officers in particular churches of one congregation : ergo. objection . if it be said , that though a congregation hath such officers as have the power of the keys , yet that such must combine with others in way of co-ordination to govern in common , and so to be helped and compleated by them . answ . we grant much help may be had by sister churches , and consultative presbyteries , but that which takes away the exercise of the keys in point of government from the church to whom christ hath given it , doth not compleat it , but take away and destroy the power and liberty of it ; for though the pastor of a congregation may oft consent , yet the major part of the presbytery must carry it , whether he consent or no , and therefore his power is swallowed up . besides , it seems to us a mystery , that every pastor , even such as have no flock , should be pastors of the catholick church , and yet a pastor should not have power to rule in his own flock over which christ hath made him a bishop , and for which flock he must give account unto god. objection . it cannot have a synod , which is one ordinance of god , therefore it is not a compleat church . answ . by this reason a classicall church is not compleat , because it cannot have a nationall councell ; nor a nationall church , because it cannot have a generall councell ; if it be said a classis have all ordinary meanes to a compleat church , we say the like of a congregation . objection . though a town or family being cast alone , may govern as a compleat body ; yet when it stands in a common-wealth , as in england , it may not be so independent , but submit to combinations : so here when a particular congregation is alone , it may govern as compleat ; not so when amongst other churches . answ . if such a town or family have compleat power , and all civill officers within it self , it is not bound to submit to such combinations in a common-wealth , except it be under a superior power that can command the same . as abraham having a compleat government in his family was not bound to combine with the governments he came amongst , neither did he ; in prudence he joyned in a league of amity and for mutual help with aner , &c. but not to submit to their government : so here a church having compleat officers is not bound to submit to such combinations , except it be proved that any superior power of other churches can command the same . secondly , though a family not having compleat civill government in it self must combine where it stands in a commonwealth , yet never to yeeld up its family-government over wife , children and servants to rule them in common with other masters of families , no civill prudence or morall rule taught men ever so to practise ; and therefore why in such a case should a church give up the government of it self to pastors of many churches to rule it in common , and not rather as a classis is over-awed by the provinciall onely in common things ; so in congregations pastors should govern their flocks , and onely in things common be under a presbytery . if it be said , that the classis do act in such things only ; for in excommunication of an offender , the offence is common to all . we answer , if so , then why should not the provinciall and nationall churches by this reason assume all to themselves from the classis ? for the offence of one is common to all : as also upon this ground , why should not the classis admit all the members of every congregation under them ? for this also may concern them all . thirdly , here is a great difference , for civill societies are left to civill prudence ; and may give up themselves to many forms of government : but churches are bound to use and maintain such order of government as christ hath set in the church , and not to give it up to many , no more then to one ▪ if testimonies were needfull , we might produce zanchi , zwinglius , parker , baines , and others , who are fully with us in this doctrine of a particular church ; yea , dr. downam himself confesseth ; that the most of the churches in the time of the apostle paul did not exceed the proportion of a populous congregation ; and this confession puts us in minde of a witty passage of his refuter , or his epistoler , who against the bishops maintains the doctrine of congregationall churches with us ; with whose expressions , ( for the recreation of our selves and the reader ) we will conclude : the papist , ( saith he ) he tels us ( just as the organs goe at rome ) that the extent of a bishops jurisdiction is not limited but by the popes appointment , his power of it self indifferently reaching over all the world . our prelatists would perswade us ( to the tune of canterbury ) that neither church nor bishop hath his bounds determined by the pope , nor yet by christ in the scriptures , but left to the pleasure of princes , to be cast into one mould with the civill state. now the plain christian finding nothing but humane uncertainties in either of these devises , he contenteth himself with plain song , and knowing that christ hath appointed christians to gather themselves into such societies as may assemble themselves together for the worship of god , and that unto such he hath given their peculiar pastors ; he , i say , in his simplicity calleth these assemblies , the churches of christ , and these pastors , his bishops . thus much concerning the nature of a particular church , and that it is instituted in the gospel . now in the second place wee are to shew how church government and ordinances are given to it as to the proper subject of the same . where we shall propound these theses for explication of our selves . first , though pastourship considered as an office in relation to a people to feed them authoritatively , be one of these ordinances given to a particular church : yet christ hath given it for the gathering in of his elect unto the church , and therfore wee grant some acts of the ministery , viz. the preaching of the word , is to be extended beyond the bounds of the church . secondly , seales and other priviledges although de jure , and remotely they belong to the catholique church , or the number of beleevers : yet de facto and nextly they belong properly to this subject which wee speake of , ( as wee hope to make good . ) thirdly , they are not so appropriated to such congregations onely as to exclude the members of those congregations which are under the government of a common presbytery or other formes of government , for wee have a brotherly esteeme of such congregations , notwithstanding that tertium quoddam separabile of government , ( as mr. baines cals it ) being a thing that commeth to a church now constituted , and may be absent , the church remaining a church . fourthly , although it be said by some divines , that as faith is the internall form of the church , so profession of faith is the outward form , and that therefore bare profession of faith makes a member of the visible church , yet this must be understood according to the interpretations of some of them who so speak , for there is a double profession of faith ; personall , which is acted severally by particular persons ; and common , which is acted conjointly in , and with a society : the first makes a man of the catholick number of visible saints , and so fit matter for politicall church-society : the other makes a man of the politicall church formally and compleatly ; and in this latter sense profession of faith is the externall form of a visible church , but not in the other . now that in and to this subject so professing , the seals and other ordinances belong may , be proved thus : argument . first , the seals and other church-ordinances must either belong to the catholick church as such , or to the particular church : but these cannot belong to the catholick in actuall dispensation whereof we now speak : ergo. for that church which is uncapable of actuall dispensation of seales , censures , &c. is uncapable of the participation thereof in an orderly and ordinary way ; but the catholick number of visible beleevers as catholick , and out of particular societies , are not capable of dispensing the same ; ergo. the proposition is evident , for it cannot be shewed that any church in the new testament was ever capable of participating in seals , that was not capable of dispensing them , at least not having a next power to elect officers to do it . the assumption is evident from what hath been proved , that it is no politicall body ( the sole subject of church administrations ) neither in the whole , nor in the parts as existing out of congregations . argument . if the members of the catholick church be bound to joyn into particular societies , that they may partake of seals , &c. then the seals are not to be administred immediatly to them , for then they should have the end without the means . but they are bound to joyn in such societies for that end , for otherwise there is no necessity of erecting any particular churches in the world ; and so all the glory of christ in this respect should be laid in the dust , and these particular temples destroyed , and thus a door of liberty is opened to many to live loosely without the care and watch , and communion of any particular church in the world . argument . if the seals are to be administred immediately to beleevers , or professing beleevers as such , then they may be administred privately to any one where-ever he be found ; but that were very irregular and against the common doctrine of protestant divines , who give large testimony against private baptism , or of the lords-supper , neither doe we see any weight in the arguments of the papists or anabaptists alledged for the contrary . argument . lest we seem to stand alone in this controversies , let the arguments produced by didoclavius , and him that writes concerning perth assembly against private baptisms , be considered , and it will be found that most of them doe strongly conclude against administration thereof to any but church-members . argument . the learned author mr. ball in this his dispute against our conclusion : yet in his discourse let fall sundry things that confirm it ; as when he describes the catholick church to be the society of men professing the faith of christ , divided into many particular churches . whence we argue , if the catholick church existeth onely in these particular churches , the seales must onely be given to them and the members thereof ; also , that baptism is a solemn admission into the church of christ , and must of necessity be administred in a particular society : whence three things will follow ; first , that baptism sometimes administred privately by the apostles is not an ordinary pattern . secondly , that baptism is not to be administred to beleevers ( as such ) immediatly , if of necessity it must be administred in a particular society . thirdly , joyning to some particular society being an ordinance of god of so great concernment ; & if baptism must be administred in it , why ought not , why may not such joyn to that society ? ( at least as members for a time . ) also when he saith divers times , that men are made members of the church by baptism , ( speaking of such churches as choose officers over them ; ) yea , that the apostles constituted chrches by baptism , and the like , ( which we shall note in the answer ; ) now what doe these argue but a yeelding of the cause ? for if the apostles made members , and constituted churches by baptism , this was onely sacramentally , and if so , then of necessity they must be really members of such churches before baptism . thus we have run through this large field of the catholick and particular church , which hath detained us longer then we intended ; yet , to prevent mistakes from any thing that have been said concerning the union , communion , and combination of the churches ; we shall add these two things . we observe that the scripture speaks of the church , sometimes as one body , sometimes as many , and therefore called churches ; and hence our care is to preserve not onely the distinction of churches , ( as many by particular combinations ) but also their unity , as being one by spirituall relation . association of divers particular churches we hold needfull , as well as the combination of members into one ; yet so as there be no schism of one from another , nor usurpation of one over another , that either one should deprive the rest of peace by schism ; or many should deprive any one of its power by usurpation ; hence a fraternall consociation we acknowledge ; consociation we say , for mutuall counsell and helpe , to prevent or remove sinne and schism ; yet fraternall onely , to preserve each others power ; consociation of churches we would have cumulative , ( not in words , but in deed ) to strengthen the power of particular churches , not privative , to take away any power which they had from the gift of christ before . for as on the one side it may seem strange that one church offending should have no means of cure by the conceived power of many ; so on the other side the danger may appear as great , and frequently falls out , that when many churches are scandalous , one innocent church may be hurt by the usurpation of all . and hence we see not , but that fraternall consociation is the best medicine to heal the wounds of both . we utterly dislike such independency as that which is maintained by contempt , or carelesse neglect of sister churches ; faciunt favos & vespae , faciunt ecclesias & marcionitae , saith tertullian . we utterly dislike such dependency of churches upon others , as is built upon usurpations and spoils of particular churches . having thus largely digressed for the clearing of the foundation of the dispute in hand , we desire to be excused if we be the more brief in our answers to particulars , which now we shall attend unto as they lye in order . chap. vi. reply . the seals are given unto the church not onely in ordinary , ( as you say ) but also in extraordinary dispensation , &c. and when you say , the dispensing of the seals is an ordinance given onely for the edifying of the church gathered , must it not be understood of extraordinary dispensation as well as of ordinary , &c. added these words [ ordinary dispensation ] were , to prevent the objection which you foresaw might be made from the apostles practice and example , but so as they cut asunder the sinews of the consideration it self , and make it of no force . answ . before we come to the particulars of the reply , it is needfull to clear our meaning from this mistake about the word [ ordinary dispensation ; ] which being rightly understood , it will appear that it no way cuts the sinews of the consideration as is objected . for whereas , first , you extend the opposite term , [ extraordinary dispensation ] to the whole generall practice of the apostles and evangelists ; and secondly , take it for granted , that their practice was not to baptize members of particular churches ▪ we neither intended the first , nor doe we grant the second ; as for the first , we acknowledge freely that the apostles and evangelists ordinarily and generally practiced according to comon rules in this point of baptizing , as well as in other , and left their practice for our pattern , and therefore their ordinary practice in this thing we shall stick to ; yet they having not onely extraordinary power above pastors and teachers , but also having sometime an immediate call unto some acts and speciall guidance of the spirit to warrant what they did , therefore there were some of their actions , especially in respect of some circumstances thereof , which ordinary pastors ( not so assisted ) may not doe ; as in this case when they baptized in private houses , in the wildernesse alone , and not in the face of a congregation , &c. and therefore if in some few cases some doe think they did not baptize into a particular church ; yet if their ordinary practice were otherwise , we ought to imitate the ordinary , not some extraordinary cases ; and thus the sinews and force of the consideration remains strong , notwithstanding this word of [ ordinary dispensation : ] and that this was our meaning , was not hard to discern , by the scriptures cited in the answer , to prove the seales are given unto the church in ordinary dispensation , amongst which , acts . , , . containing the apostles first practice in this kinde are expressed ; and mr. ball took notice thereof , as appears by his own reference to the same afterwards , though in his printed reply those quotations bee wholly left out . let us consider whether the apostles ordinarily did not baptize into particular churches ; and this may be proved from the stories of their ordinary practice : first , it will be easily granted that the apostles did gather disciples into particular visible churches , but there is no other time or season of doing it can be shewed in all the stories of their acts ; yea , sometimes they were so suddenly called away , or enforced away by persecution after they had converted disciples , that it is very improbable , if not impossible , they should do it at all , but when they converted and baptized them , as acts . . & . . &c. but to come more particularly unto the story it self , the apostles first , and exemplary practise being the best interpreter of their commission , and of their ordinary proceeding therein ; the first converts which the apostles baptized after the visible kingdom of christ was set up , were those in that famous place , acts . . concerning whom observe , first , that the apostle peter not onely preached unto them repentance and faith in the name of christ , with promise of remission of sins ▪ and that they should be baptized , but according to that commission , mat. . with many other words he exhorted them , saying , save your selves from this untoward generation , being the very scope of his exhortation ; and this implies a gathering of themselves to the fellowship of the saints ; and al this word they gladly received before they were baptized . when the holy ghost , vers . . declareth their baptizing , he records withall their adding to them , the latter being an exegesis of the former , and that the same day , as being performed at the same time ; and indeed when a convert publickly professeth his faith in christ , is it not as easily done ▪ to re●…eive him to a particular visible church , as into the catholick before baptism ; but first to baptize them , and then the same day to add or joyn them to the church , is altogether unprobable . and that this adding was to a particular church , is sufficiently proved before . the next place you may note , is acts . . where the holy ghost omitting the baptizing of those beleevers , yet speaks of their adding to the lord , as if the one implyed the other ; and that their adding to the lord , was by their joyning to the church , is evident by the opposition between verse & . of the rest durst no man joyn himself to them , but beleevers were the more added to the lord. in the conversion of samaria , although so great a work is declared in so few words in one verse , act. . . yet the text puts a manifest distinction of philips doctrine between the things of the kingdom of god , and the name of jesus christ : which plainly enough sheweth , that they taught the observing of the order of the kingdom of christ , as well as the doctrine of the name of christ , the object of saving faith . and this they received by faith , and professed before they were baptized . now the first and most famous examples of the apostles perswading that so they practised , why should we doubt of their like practice in other examples when nothing is said that contradicteth the same ? as acts . in the baptizing of cornelius his house , where so many were met , and the holy ghost fell on all ; why should we think the apostle peter baptized them , and left them out of the order of christ , wherein they should worship him , and be edified in the faith ? if we doubt of it , because the scripture is silent therein , we may as well question whether those beleevers , acts . . & . . & vers . . whether any of these confessed their faith , or were baptized , for nothing is said thereof : so likewise acts . where we read of many beleeving , turning to the lord , vers . . of the adding others to the lord , vers . . but nothing of their confession of faith or baptism , and yet they are called a church ; whereby it appears that the holy ghost sometime expresseth their baptism without joyning to the church ; and sometimes joyning without baptism , and sometime he expresseth both , acts. . . and therefore hence we may conclude the like of the case of lydia and the jaylor ; considering the former practice of the apostles : and that the apostle speaks so expresly of a church at philippi in the beginning of the gospel , phil. . at which time we have no more conversions expressed but of those two families ; at least , they were the most eminent fruits of pauls ministery at that time ; and it is very probable the church was gathered in lydia's house , seeing paul going out of prison to her house , he is said to see the brethren , and comfort them , so departing , verse . besides , why might not the apostle baptize them into that particular visible church in such a case , as well as into the catholick , or all churches , as some say , they professing subjection to christ in every ordinance of his , with reference to that church he had there constituted ? the fulnesse of power in the apostles might doe greater matters without breach of order , though no rule for us so to do ; neither is it strange from the practice of those times to begin a church in a family , seeing the apostle speaks of churches in three severall families , rom. . . col. . . phil. . which though many understand to be called churches in regard of the godlinesse of those families ; yet if we consider ; first , how many eminent saints the apostle salutes , ( who no doubt had godly families ) not so much as naming their housholds ; much lesse giving them such a title , but onely to these three named . secondly , how distinct his salutations are , first the governors , and then the church in their house . thirdly , that the apostle doth not onely send his salutations to the church in the house of aquila and priscilla , rom. . . but also keeping the name of a church , he sends salutations from that church to the church of corinth , cor. . . all which doe strongly argue there is more in it , then that they were godly families , and therefore may perswade us that there were indeed constituted churches in those families , though other christians also might joyn with them . reply . thus having cleared our meaning , and the consideration it self , there will remain very few extraordinary cases , ( if any ) of whom it can be proved , they were not joyned to some particular church when baptized ; as that of the eunuch , which as it was done by an extraordinary immediate call of philip so to doe ; so also there was a speciall reason thereof , the lord intending thereby , rather by him to send the gospel into ethiopia , then to retain him in any other place , to joyn with his church : and the baptism of paul , who as without the ministery of the word he was converted by the immediate voice of christ , so he was baptized by the immediate call of ananias so to do . now let us proceed to consider what further is replyed . answ . the seals baptism and the lords-supper are given to the church , not onely in ordinary , but also extraordinary dispensation : true baptism is not without the church , but in it , an ordinance given to it . the sacraments are the seales of the covenant to the faithfull , which is the form of the church tokens and pledges of our spirituall admittance into the lords family . hence it is inferred , that if the seales in extraordinary dispensation were given to the church , and yet to members of no particular church , then also in ordinary dispensation it may be so . it will not follow ; for first , if the apostle in extraordinary cases baptized privately , will it follow that in ordinary dispensation it may be so ? secondly , if because the ministery be given to the church , and extraordinary officers were not limited to particular churches ; will it therefore follow that in ordinary dispensations , ministers ought not to be given onely to particular churches ? thirdly , as we have oft said , that seals belong de jure to all beleevers , as such , as members of the catholick church , ( they being given unto it firstly , as to its object and end ) and all that are truly baptized , are baptized into it , and thus never out of it , as being tokens of our spirituall admittance into the lords family both in ordinary and extraordinary dispensation ; but doth it hence follow that actuall fruition of the seales ( of which the question is stated ) may ordinarily be had or given to such as set loose from all societies ? the apostles had extraordinary power , being generall pastors over all persons beleeving as well as churches ; and therfore at some times by speciall guidance of the spirit they might doe that which ordinary pastors may not do . reply . secondly , as the seals , so the word of salvation preached and received , is a priviledge of the church , &c. if by preaching be meant the giving of the word unto a people , to abide and continue with them , and consequently the receiving of it at least in profession , then it is proper to the church of god. answ . we grant , ( in some sense ) it is a priviledge , and proper to the church so to have the word ; but this no way takes away the difference between the seals and the word , which the answer makes , viz. that the word is not such a peculiar priviledge of the church as the seals , in that the one is dispensed not onely to the church , but also to others for the gathering of them , which is not so in the seals , for the word of god received in corinth abiding with them , professed of them , was not so peculiar , but an idiot comming in might partake in the same , but not so in the sacraments , cor. . reply . the word makes disciples , the word given unto a people is gods covenanting with them , and the peoples receiving this word , and professing their faith in god through jesus christ , is the taking of god to be their god , the laws and statutes which god gave unto israel , were a testimony that god hath separated them from all other people : the word of reconciliation is sent and given to the world reconciled in iesus christ , and they that receive the doctrine , law , or word of god , are the disciples , servants , and people of god. answ . in these words , and that which follows in the second paragraph , there seems to be a double scope : first , to prove the word proper to the church ; to which is answered afore . secondly , that where-ever the word of god is , there is the true visible church ; and so where the true worship of god is , there is a mark of the church , especially where it is received and confessed . to which we answer : there is a coven●…nting between god and man , which is personall , and so whosoever receives the word of gods grace by faith sent unto him by god , enters into covenant to be his , and that before he makes any visible profession thereof , and so every beleever is a disciple , a servant of god , and one of gods people , but many thousands of these considered onely in this their personall relation to god , doe not make a visible church , many such might be in the world , but no members of the visible church , until they came and joyned to the church of israel of old , or to the visible churches in the new testament . there is a sociall or common covenanting between god and a people , to be a god to them , and they a people unto god in outward visible profession of his worship ; and so the lord took abraham and his seed into covenant , and renewed that covenant with them , as an holy nation and peculiar people to him ; and in this covenanting of god with a people , whereby they become a church , there is required , first , that they be many , not one . secondly , that these many become one body , one people . thirdly , that they make visible profession of their covenant with god really , or vocally . fourthly , that this covenant contain a profession of subjection to the ordinances of gods worship , wherein god requires a church to walk together before him : and all these may be seen in the church of israel , who received gods laws indeed , but so as they became one people to god , visibly avouched god for their god , received and submitted unto all the laws of his worship , government , and other ordinances . and this is expresly or implicitly in every true visible church , though more or lesse fully and purely . now if you intend such a covenanting of a people with god , by a professed receiving of his word , and subjection to his ordinances ; we grant such to be true churches , and to such the seals do belong ; and therefore we willingly close with the conclusion that follows , they that have received the word of salvation entirely , and have pastors godly and faithfull to feed and guide them , they and their seed have right to the seals in order . and they that joyn together in the true worship of god , according to his will , with godly and faithfull pastors , they have right to the sacraments , according to divine institution . these conclusions we willingly embrace , and inferr , that if the seals belong to such a church , then to particular congregations . for where shall we finde a people joyning together with godly pastors , but in such particular assemblies ? for we doubt not our brethren doe disclaim all diocesan pastors or provinciall , &c. reply . that there is now no visible catholick church in your sense , will easily be granted , &c. if this be granted in our sense , so that there be no such catholick church wherein seals are to be dispensed ; then it will fall to be the right and priviledge of particular congregations , to have the seals in the administration proper to them ; and so the cause is yeelded ; but because there is so much here spoken of the catholick visible church , and so much urged from it , we shall refer the reader to what is said before , onely one thing we shall note about the instance of athanasius , that a man may be a member of the catholick visible church , but of no particular society . reply . you say it is evidenced , in that a christian ( as athanasius for an example ) may be cut off unjustly from the particular visible church , wher●…in he was born , and yet remains a member of the catholick visible orthodox church . answ . this case proves nothing ; for look how such a christian stands to the catholick , so he stands to the particular church : if he be unjustly censured , as he remains before god a member of the catholick , so also the particular church , for clavis errans non ligat : and in respect of men , and communion with other churches in the seals , if they receive him , being satisfied that he is unjustly cast out ; they may receive him , not for his generall interest in the catholick church , but in respect of his true membership in the particular church , that unjustly cast him out . whereas , if the churches were not perswaded but that he were justly cast out of the particular , they ought not to admit him to seales , were he as orthodox as athanasius himself in doctrine , and as holy in his life . reply . though there be no universall congregation , nor can be imagined , yet there are and have been many visible assemblies or societies , true churches of christ , to whom the prerogative of the seals is given , which have not been united and knit together into one congregation or society in church-order . for every society in covenant with god , is the true church of god. for what is it to be the flock , people , or sheep of god , but to be the church of god ? and where there is a covenant , there is the people of god , &c. answ . this assertion seems to us very strange to fall from that reverend and learned author , being a foundation of many inconveniences and absu●…dities , and tending to overthrow the order of christ in his visible churches . for , first , if this be so , that every society in covenant with god , be the church of god , then men may set up as many forms of visible churches as they please , ( if the people be in covenant with god visibly at least ) the archdeacon with his commissary , priests , churchwardens , &c. being in covenant with god , are a true church : so the diocesan bishop in his cathedrall with his clergy , or any such assembly , are the church of god ; or what other form-soever men will devise , may goe for the church of god , and to them belong the seals , and ( you may as wel say ) discipline , and all ordinances of god , if they bee the true church . secondly , upon this ground every company of godly christistians in covenant with god , meeting in fasting , prayer , &c. are the true church of god , and to them ( as such ) the seal●… belong , and sending for a true minister of the catholick church , they may have baptism and the lords-supper administred , and by the same reason discipline also : yea , if but two or three ( as you say ) being in covenant with god , meet together in their travail at an inne , &c. are the church of god , especially every christian family i●… the church ; for they professe the entire faith ▪ joyn ( daily ) in prayer and thanksgiving , receive the truth of god to dwell amongst them , are in some measure obedient unto the command●… of god , and in covenant with god : and therefore being the church of god , why not call for a minister , and have seals ordinarily dispensed to them ? thirdly , upon this ground a company of christian women in covenant with god are a church , to whom the seal ●… belong ; and who sees not , how all orderly dispensation of gods ordinances , and the whole order of visible churches in the gospel would be overturned by this assertion ? we verily beleeve this author was far from admitting these things , but the position it self will unavoidably enforce the same . neither can we impute this assertion to any inconsideratenesse through heat of disputation . for if any shall maintain the personall covenant of people with god to be sufficient to constitute visible churches , and not admit a necessity of a more publick or generall covenant explicite or implicite , whereby a company of christian●… are made one people , joyning in one congregation to worship god in his holy ordinances , and walk together in his way●… , they must of necessity acknowledge every society in covenant with god to be a church , as here is said ; and therefore admit all forms of churches , and all families , &c. to be churches , and so bring in the confution objected , which we desire may well bee considered . all your arguments stand upon that ground of personall covenant with god , which is too weak to bear up that conclusion , to make all such visible churches to whom the seals belong , as the absurd consequences thereof shew . these reasons , and the scriptures in the margent ( some of them ) will prove them fit matter for visible churches , and that they have a remote right unto the seals of that covenant , ( which we grant ) but they will not prove every society of such to bee true churches , having immediate right to have the seals dispensed unto them . reply . fifthly , if it be gra●…ted that the seals are the prerogative of particular visible churches , known and approved christians amongst us are members of such churches , and so to be esteemed amongst you , &c. and every visible beleever professing the pure entire faith , admitted to the right and lawfull participation of the sacraments , is a visible member of the true church , if he hath neither renounced the society , nor deserved justly to be cast out by excommunication , or church censure , &c. and if known and approved christians , members of our churches comming to new-england , shall desire to have their children baptized , or themselves admitted to the lords-supper , before they be set members amongst you ; we desire to know upon what grounds from god you can deny them , if you acknowledge our churches , ministery and sacraments to be true , ( as you professe ) and the members of the church be known and approved , orderly recommended unto you . answ . we grant all this here expressed for the substance , however some reasons spoken unto before intermixed we passe over , and to your question we frame a ready answer from your own words . for , first , you grant , that if such members have renounced that society wherein they did partake of the seals , they are not to be reputed members of it ; and this is generally the case of all approved christians among us , who though they doe not so renounce the churches that bare them , and gave them suck , as no true churches ; yet seeing they were grown so corrupt many ways , as they could neither enjoy some needfull ordinances , nor partake in those they had without sin , they have therefore renounced and forsaken all further communion with them , and membership in them ; and so by your own grant , neither themselves , nor the churches here can take them as members of your churches , to receive them under that respect . secondly , if any yet have not so far renounced those churches they belonged unto , yet they are not orderly recommended unto us , which also you grant ought to be , and indeed otherwise we may oft receive persons justly excommunicate , or such as are no members of churches any where , or otherwise under great offence , as frequent examples amongst our selves doe she●…e , though the church may think well of such as offer themselves . what else follows in this paragraph , is the same in substance , and much of it in words also , that we have answered before ; and therefore we passe it over ; and that of the jewish church we shall speak to after . as for that you desire leave to set down , and us to examine what may be objected against that we affirmed , that the distinct churches named in the new testament were congregationall societies ; we shall consider as followeth : reply . the number of beleevers were so great in some cities , that they could not conveniently meet in one place as one assembly to worship god according to his will , and for their edifying , as in samaria , jerusalem , antioch , ephesus . answ . although we expected not objections in this case against the currant tenent of our godly reformers , baine , parker , &c. with whom we joyn ; and we might refer you to them for answer to this beaten . objection of the prelates ; yet we are not unwilling to examine what is said in this digression . the argument stands thus : if the number of beleevers were so great in some city , as could not meet in one assembly to edification ; then there was some other form of a church besides congregationall ; but so it was in samaria , &c. answ . we deny the consequences , for when they grew to so great a number , they might fall into more congregationall churches , and so no other form arise from the multitude ; but we suppose you mean of such a multitude as is called a church ; and therefore to answer to your assumption , we deny that any such multitude of beleevers as is here called a church were so great as could not meet to edification : and first concerning samaria . reply . that there was a church gathered in samaria , will not be denyed , for they received the word , and were baptized ; but that the church in that city was onely a congregationall assembly , is more then can probably be concluded . answ . we grant a church or churches were gathered in samaria , and we accept your reason as good , because they received the word , and were baptized wh●…e ( by the way ) you grant what we pleaded for before , that the apostles gathered churches , when they baptized them : but that there was but one congregationall assembly , lyes not in 〈…〉 prove , untill you prove that all the beleevers were called a church , or one church , which doth not appear in the whole story , 〈…〉 nor any other where that we can finde ▪ and it is , very probable that as philip converted and baptized so great a multitude at severall times , and gathered them into the church or churches as he baptized them , so he might gather severall churches , as well as one , seeing that none doubt but that congregationall churches 〈◊〉 an ordinance of christ , what ever men contend for beside ▪ and therefore be the number of beleevers in samaria as great as you would have it , it proves nothing . reply . the church at jerusalem was one , and distinct , yet encreased to , then to , &c. answ . be it so , the increase was very great ; yet so long as they are called one distinct church , it was one congregation , viz. untill they scattering by the persecution about stephen , acts. . . which is evident by these two arguments . first , acts . , &c. where we see the added to the . they have their communion together described : in regard of their spirituall communion , to be in the apostles doctrine , fellowship , breaking of bread and prayer , verse . secondly , in regard of their outward communion in the good things of this life ; they had all things common , and sold their possessions , &c. verse , & ▪ now the manner of both parts of this communion in respect of time and place is described , verse . viz. in their spirituall duties , they continued daily with one accord in the temple . and secondly , in respect of their outward communion in their states , they eat their meat from house to house ; this latter requiring many tables and many houses to provide for them ; so that although in their outward communion , it was in private houses , yet their spirituall communion it was with one accord in one place , viz. the temple , where they had room enough ; being the place erected for a nationall church ; and having favour with all the people , were not interrupted therein by any persecution . we need not step out of our way to reply to all that is said against this reason . it is enough for us to note , that they daily with one accord 〈◊〉 , and that in the temple , which is not ans●…ered by any 〈…〉 . this appeareth , acts ●… . , . where it is evident the election of deaco●● was before , and by the multitude , verse . by the whole multitude , verse . and this was the last church-meeting and church act we read of before their scattering ; neither can ●…t appear that the jews and ●…recians , whose widows murmured were two distinct congregations ; but the contrary is evident , in that the deacons were chosen al by the whole , and for the whole , not distinctly so many for this , and so many for that church , as it was needful if they were two churches . these proofe being so clear ▪ the inconveniences objected are of no force , and sufficiently answered by many examples of as great assemblies meeting ordinarily to edification ; as beside the auditory of chrysostome , cited by others ; the assemblies of stepney in london , yarmouth in norfolk , and others in our experience . beza , a man not loving to hyperbolize , saith , that being in paris , there met at a sermon * . and of a synodall assembly that they received the lords supper no lesse then . beza epist. . reply . without question the number of beleevers at antioch was not small , of which it is expresly said , that a great number beleeved , and that a great multitude were added to the lord by the preaching of barnabas , &c. and therefore we may think the church rose to such a●… bignesse as could not well assemble in one congregation , acts . . & . . answ . in that place , acts . . the great number that beleeved , was the fruit of all the scattered christians at phenice , cyprus , and antioch ; for the hand of the lord was with them all , and their whole successe is summed up together , nothing said before of the other places . though paul and barnabas taught much people , yet it proveth not that this much people were converted to the church . though much people were added to the lord , yet doth it follow they were more then could meet in one congregation ? and if first disciples were there called christians , must it needs be for their number , and not rather for eminent likeness to christ , with other specialities of providence ? it is expresly said , the church was gathered together , acts . . which is not meant of the elders onely , as if they onely could meet ; for chap. . . they gathered the multitude together ; so that it was no●… 〈…〉 but 〈…〉 to g●…ther in 〈◊〉 place . reply . the number of beleevers was great at ephesus , where paul preached two years ; all that dwelt 〈…〉 heard 〈…〉 and effectuall ways open 〈…〉 the 〈…〉 of di●…na her temple were in danger to be se●… a●…●…ought ; 〈◊〉 those 〈…〉 , burnt their books openly : which could not 〈…〉 great danger of the church , unlesse a great part of the city had 〈◊〉 , acts . , , . answ . be it so , that many were converted , and the word gr●…w mightily ; this proves not th●● all who heard paul , were of the church of ephesus , for then all 〈◊〉 should be of that church , ( acts . . ) who did hear the word 〈◊〉 jewe and gentiles ; as for the danger of the shrines , and diana's temple to be set at nought , a little spark might ●…indle such fears , and raise such out-cryes in the covetous craftsmen , by whom the whole city was see in a superstitious 〈◊〉 ; our own experience may teach , how soon a prophane people will cry our against a faithfull minister before he hath converted ten 〈◊〉 in a city . that they could not burn their books openly without danger to the churches , except a great part of the city beleeved , seems a strange reason ▪ as if beleevers 〈◊〉 not professe openly , except they had a great number to maintain them with club-law : open profession in those times even amongst a few , was not wont to be daunted with the grim looks of persecution . and lastly , we grant ephesus might be a numerous church ; yet neither there , no●… any thing that is said from rev. . . ( hear what the spirit 〈…〉 ) can perswade us that it was any more then one congregation ; for that argues no more , that ephesus was a compound of many churches , then that it was compounded with all the other six churches of asia ; yea , the churches of all the world ▪ for what the spirit speaketh to one church , is spoken for the use of all . reply . it is not essentiall to the church to 〈◊〉 together in one place ordinarily , no●… is the society broken off by persecution●… , when 〈…〉 together in one place be interrupted . answ . it is true ; one church or society by persecution or otherwise , may meet in severall companies ; neither doe we say , that place , or meeting in one place , is properly essentiall to the church , yet i●… to necessary both 〈…〉 , to ●…e able at least so to doe ▪ for though it be not necessary to 〈…〉 of the society thus to meet together , yet it is necessary to the communion thereof in all ordinances . it is not necessary to the unity of a classicall presbytery to meet ordinarily in one place , but unto the communion thereof it is necessary . when the papists to maintain their private masses , say , that place is but accidentall to the ordinance : and that christians are not bound to the circumstance of place ( as h●…rdin objects ) any more , then to observe dayes , moneth●… times , condemned as beggerly elements by the apostle , gal. . as also , that all the faithfull are united together by the sacraments though they meet not in the same place , as the ancients ●…o tell , how doth learned chamity answer them ▪ he tels them , that although this or that particular place is not necessary , yet a place indefinitely taken is ●… and that the sacrament is restrained to be administred in a place , because it cannot be administred but conventu fidelium ▪ and this conventus must be in some place : and he adds , that although all the faithfull have communion in the sacrament , though they meet not in one and the same place ; yet this ( he saith ) is to be understood of spirituall , not sacramentall communion ; nunquam ●…rim auditum , qui hierosolymis erant , sacramentaliter communicasse cum iis qui alexandrie : and therefore he thought communion in one place together necessary to church-communion , as wee doe . reply . seventhly , seeing then both the seals in ordinary and extraordinary dispensation , &c. answ . this , with that which follows , being but a recapitulation of the severall replies made , we shall leave it to the judicious , having well observed our answer , to embrace or reject the conclusion . chap. vii . consid . . the preposition is granted , that the dispensation of the sacraments both ordinary and extraordinary , is limited to the ministery ; but in that you alledge for confirmation some things may be noted : the first institution of baptism is not contained in that passage , but confirmed , for the seals were instituted before his death , &c. answ . the proposition being granted , and the proof mat. . . being ( we doubt not ) pertinent in the authors own judgment , as well as ours ; brotherly love might easily have passed over greater mistakes then the answer seems to have fallen into : for , by first institution here , we meant no more , then that it is the ordinance of christ himself , instituted in that first time of all divine ordinances . we were not so ignorant to think there was no use , and so no institution of baptism before the death of christ ; and therefore this confutation might have been spared . reply . secondly , we see not how you can apply that text , matth. . to preaching by office ; which by your exposition is a dispensing of a fit portion to every one of the houshold ; and it is plain the apostles were sent to preach to every creature , &c. answ . as if that commission , matth. . did not authorize them also , and require them to dispense fit portions to the churches ▪ did not the care of all the churches lye on the apostle , cor. . . so also cor. . . were not apostles given to the church for the edifying of the body of christ , &c. as well as other officers ? ephes . . , . cor. . . and therefore this note also might well have been spared . reply . thirdly , if under the power of the keys you comprehend preaching by office , dispensing seals , &c. we deny the power of the keys to belong to the church , or community of the faithfull , in those passages which speak of this power , the execution of this authority is given to them to whom the authority is committed . answ . this of the power of the keys , and the execution thereof , was onely in the answer touched by the way , to prevent the objection of some . it is well known that it is no new opinion to hold , that the church is the first subject of the keys , and to alledge matth. . & . for the same , and therefore might as well have been set in the margent ; many ancient divines , and our own modern , as fulke , whittaker , baine , parker , and others , as robinson , if there were not a desire to possesse people with that conceit , that we goe in new ways with the separatists alone . we distinguish between power and authority : there is a power , right , or priviledge , as joh. . . which is not authority properly so called ; the first is in the whole church , by which they have right to choose officers , acts . & . receiving members , &c. authority ( properly so called ) we ascribe onely to the officers under christ to rule and govern , whom the church must obey . now we grant that where authority is given , there power to exercise it is given also , as mat. . joh. . &c. it is given to the apostles and ministers ; and so where power is given to the church , there power to exercise the same orderly is given also , as mat. . cor. . cor. . . reply . if the power of the keys be given to the church , the apostles themselves must derive their authority immediately from the church , and not from christ ; for the power must be derived from them unto whom it was given , &c. answ . we deny your consequence , for the lord may give power to his church in all ordinary cases , and yet reserve to himself that prerogative to doe what he please immediately without the church , as is cleare , that in this case he hath , first calling his twelve apostles , mat. . before he instituted the church of the new testament , after he was pleased to use the ministery of the church , acts . to choose two , and take one of them immediately by a lot ; and when paul was called he appeared to him immediatly , and called him both to the faith , and to his apostleship , whereby it is clear that their call is a reserved case . reply . if ministers dispense the seals as the stewards of christ , from whom they receive their authority immediately ; then the power of the keys is not in the community of the faithfull ; if as the servants of the church , from which they derive their authority ; then the office of a minister is not the immediate gift of christ ; nor the minister so much the servant of christ , as of the church from whom he must receive lawes , in whose names he must doe his office , and to whom he must give account . answ . this objection will hold as strongly against any other subject of the keys that can bee named , ( as classes , synods , or church catholick ) and therefore by this manner of reasoning the lord jesus must doe all things immediately himself in choosing officers , &c. or else his ministers must receive laws , doe all in the name of such as he delegates to that work of administration under him , and therefore let others look to answer this objection as well as we : our answer is briefly & plainly this , the office is the immediate institution of christ , the gifts and power belonging thereto are from christ immediately , and therefore he ministers in his name , and must give account to him , pet. . and yet his outward cal to this office , whereby he hath authority to administer the holy things of christ to the church , is from christ by his church , and this makes him no more the servant of the church , then a captain ( by the leave of the generall ) chosen by the band of souldiers is the servant of his band. wee see in this reply here and elsewhere how apt men are to cast this odium upon this doctrine , and to ranke us with separatists in it , but it is easily wiped off and stickes as fast upon the classes , synods , catholick church , or any other subject of this power . reply . if the communitie of the faithfull have to doe in all matters of the body , to admit members cast out , make and depose ministers , &c. by authority from christ , wee cannot see how in your judgement the execution of the power of the keys is concredited to the ministers . answ . if the power , priviledge and liberty of the people be rightly distinguished from the authority of the officers as it ought , a dim sight may easily perceive how the execution of the keys by the officers authoritatively may stand with the liberties of the people in their place obedientially following and concurring with their guides , so long as they goe along with christ their king and his lawes , and cleaving in their obedience to christ dissenting from their guides , when they forsake christ in their ministrations ; if there need an ocular demonstration hereof , it is at hand in all civill administrations wherein the execution of laws and of justice in the hands of the judges and the priviledge power or liberty of the people in the hands of the jurours . both sweetly concurre in every case both civill & criminall ; neither is the use of a jury onely to finde the fact done , or not done , ( as some answer this instance ) but also the nature and degree of the fact in reference to the law that awards answerable punishments ; as whether the fact be simple theft , or burglary , murder or manslaughter , &c. and so in cases of dammages , costs in civill cases ; whereby it appeares , that although the power and priviledge of the people be great , yet the execution authoritatively may bee wholly in the officers . reply . fourthly , that which you adde , that god will not vouchsafe his presence and blessing to an ordinance but when it is dispensed by those whom hee hath appointed thereunto , must be warily understood , or it may occasion errors and distractions not a few , &c. answ . wee shall not contradict your warinesse in this case , for wee acknowledge a presence of god with his ordinances administred by such as hee appoints , though some corruptions bee admixed , in the entrance and administrations ; but wee doubt not the presence and blessing of god is more or lesse according to the purity or corruptions of the administration and participation of his ordinances : but what need there was , or use of this note wee see not , our words were sound , and safe enough , but it seemes your tendernesse of the standings of ministers and ordinances in england occasioned this warinesse , and wee deny not what you say , that gods presence , and blessing upon his ordinances dispensed by us gave some approbation to our standing and to his ordinances , the lord mercifully passing over our many corruptions : but this will no way give allowance to the many grosse corruptions , and defects which cleaved to our standings , and administrations , nor to the continuance of any in such corruptions after the discovery thereof . reply . secondly , as for the assumption , that pastors and teachers are limited to a particular church or society , but that flock-is not ever one congregationall assembly meeting in one place , neither the bond so straight , whereby they are tyed to that one society that they may not upon occasion performe some ministeriall act of office in another congregation , or to them that bee not set members of their proper assembly . answ . for clearing of the the assumption , that wee may give the more distinct answer , wee shall take leave to explicate our selves concerning the limitation of the ministery to the church , which it is like they who drew up the answer had formerly done , had the times then been as criticall as they are growne since . when we say the ministery is limited to a particular church , wee doe not so limit it to a congregation under her owne presbytery , as to exclude from communion in the seales , many congregations standing under one common presbytery , as wee have formerly said , we honour the reformed churches of christ jesus , and the godly members thereof . when wee say the seales are limited to a particular church or congregation because the ministery is so limited ; our meaning is not of that congregation onely whereof the ministry is , but of any congregation in generall . when wee say that where a minister hath no power , he may not do an act of power , this is to be so understood , that hee cannot performe such an act , as an officer over them or unto them as to his proper flock , the office being ( as wee said ) founded in the relation betweene the church and the officer , such a stated power as an officer over his owne flocke , hee hath not to those of other congregations partaking in his owne church , or in any act of his office in another church ; yet an occasionall act of power , or precaria potest●…s , charitatively to put forth an act of his office to those in an other church , over whom he is no officer , wee see not but he may ; but then this act of power is not towards them as over his owne flocke ; for two things are cleare to us . . that an officer of one church , is no officer over those of an other church , as not being his proper flocke , for there being no office of pastour at large without power of office , and the power that a pastour hath over others , being by the election of those that chose him their officer , who thereby become his proper flocke , hence he hath no power as an officer over those of an other flock , unlesse he should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that such an officer may put forth acts of his office towards those that are not of his proper flock . e. g. a minister ex officio , & as a pastor , not barely as a gifted man only may preach for the gathering in of those that are out of the church , as well as for the edificaon of those that are within , ephe. . , . and yet these are not his proper flock ; it is the office of every pastour to preach the gospel , the meanes of converting , and therefore not onely to intend but to attend the conversion of men , ( especially in preaching to his owne congregation ) for christ hath sheep , ( which are his flock ) to bee gathered into his fold , which are not the ministers proper flock , and the pastour is the minister of christ , as well as the pastour of his owne flock , and therefore he is to intend their gathering in as well as the good of his owne flock . againe , as he hath the keys of office by preaching the gospel , to open the kingdome of heaven to beleevers , so also he may ex officio , shut it against impenitent sinners and unbeleevers that reject his doctrine , matth. . . matth. . . jer. . . and yet these are not of his proper flocke . againe , a pastour may administer the seales , ( which is an act of office ) to members of other churches , in his his owne congregation , ( if they desire it ) who yet are not his proper flocke . lastly , a deacon of one church may performe an act of his office occasionally to those out of the church , or the poore of another church ; yet be no officer or deacon of the other church , and so 't is here . to illustrate this , a captaine of a band of souldiers is an officer onely over his owne band , but it 's an act of his office to subdue enemies , and to bring in those that submit . a steward is an officer over his masters family , not over others : yet it 's an act of his office to provide for the intertainment of strangers that come to his lords table . thus far it is cleare : but now whether a minister may administer the seales in another congregation , is not so evident , yet wee will not deny but that occasionally being called thereunto by the desire of the church , hee may lawfully doe the same , yet it 's no foundation of a stated presbytery out of a particular congregation , for in all such acts the church still keepes her power in her owne hands , while the minister hath no authority , nor can put forth any act of his ministery , but at her desire , and according to her owne necessity , neither doth this make a minister a pastour of the universall church , for pastorall office consists in taking charge of a people , and having power of authority to exercise the same towards his church : but all that is said doth include neither of these , nor doth it follow that because they may set up a presbytery over themselves in the same church , that therefore they may combine & set up a presbytery of many churches , the first being their duty injoyned by christ , not the other ; for it is necessary for them to have such amongst them as may ordinarily feed , teach , watch over them , and rule them ( the end of a ministers office ) but it 's not necessary so to submit to others , who may finde worke enough to feed and rule their owne , and therefore looke as it is not in the power of many congregations to joyne together , to set one pastour over them successively to feed them , ( for so they make a pluralist , and the bramble the king of trees ) nor yet in their power to set up ( as in the first ambitious time ) a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with power over all singly , but under all joyntly , so neither is it in their power to set up many pastours , who by their plurality of votes may wholly drowne that power of their owne . nor lastly doth it follow , that if they may desire the benefit and exercise of an others office occasionally , that they may or should doe it constantly , no more then because they may desire sundry ministers to preach amongst them every sabbath for a time in the want of officers , that therefore they should content themselves to live altogether without any of their owne . now for application of these things to the assumption of our argument . although a pastour ( in the sense explained ) may put forth acts of office in another congregation , or to others in his owne congregation , yet will it hence follow , that a minister may administer seales to such as are of no congregation ? which is now the question . reply . now to remove those objections of mr. ball , which onely reach the question in hand , whereof the first is reply the . when ordinary elders in the primitive church were to labour the comming of the infidels to god , these being converted were to bee baptized of the elders ordinarily in the cities , though the number might bee so great in they could not well meet in one congregation , nor bee subject to the same pastour : and therefore either the pastours must baptize them , being no members , or they must remaine without baptisme till they grow into a body , and choose ministers to baptize them , which is contrary to all precedents in scripture . answ . there is a third way which is passed over , that will ease the difficulty : viz. the pastours might baptize them unto their owne congregations so long as the numbers did not exceed beyond edification , and then dividing their numbers , might make divers churches of one , and they call pastours over them , and so wee see act. . they added . and after more , till they were scattered : and when peace was restored , act. . the churches were not onely edified but multiplied , verse . and so the consequence of your . reply is also taken away . reply . there is no precept or example in scripture warrants the admitting of set members of one congregation to the seales in another , more then the admitting of approved christians that are not set members , the pastour is no more the pastour of the one then of the other , neither of them set members , and both of them may bee members for the time being . answ . wee have before shewed in the first consideration , that which warrants the dispensing of the seales to confederating beleevers , as the way of the gospel , and rom. . . wee have a plaine example of orderly receiving the members of one church to communion in an other , being recommended thereunto by the apostles , wee have not the like for any not in church order at all ; and though there be a parity in respect of particular relation with that pastour and flock , yet that is a disparity in regard of immediate right that the one have to the ordinances of christ and priviledges of a church , which the other have not , being out of that order of christ prescribed in the gospel , in which order of a visible church , visible ordinances are to be dispensed , as hath been proved before . reply . if a synod consisting of sundry members of particular churches , met together in the name of christ about the common and publike affaires of the churches shall joine together in prayer , and communion of the supper , we can see no ground to question it as unlawfull , although that assembly bee no particular congregation or church , hath no pastour over them , &c. answ . that such an assembly may pray together is no question , for every family may doe so : and that they may receive the supper also in a right order , wee deny not , for meeting where there is a particular instituted church , they may have communion therewith in the supper , being many as well as few , but whether they may as a church ( being no politicall body , but members of many politicall churches ) administer church ordinances proper to a church , wee would see some reasons before wee can judge it lawfull so to doe : for though some doe account such a synod ecclesia orta ; yet not properly such a church as hath ecclesiasticall power , authority and priviledge belonging thereto : they may consult and doctrinally determine of cases of that assembly , acts . but further to proceed , we see no rule , nor paterne . besides , if such an assembly of many churches may administer seales , why may not any other assembly of church members or ministers doe the same ? and so this power will be carried without limitation , we know not how far , if they once depart from a particular church . chap. viii . consid . . reply . to the third consideration , this whole reason as it is propounded makes onely against it selfe ; who ever thought that the seales were not proper to confederates , or the church of god ; of old visible beleevers in the covenant of grace were of the visible church , and in church order according to the dispensation of those times , though not joyned to the society of abrahams family : to exclude job , melchisedeck , &c. because not of the visible church , is welnigh a contradiction , and so to debarre known approved christians , &c. answ . that this reason makes not against it self , mr. ball himself hath cleared , when he stated our consideration truely in the words following , as will appeare , however here he somewhat troubles the waters needlessely , that the ground may not appeare , for there is nothing in our answer which deny melchisedech , job , &c. to bee of the visible church according to the manner of those times , indeed wee instance in them as persons under the covenant of grace , not mentioning their membership in family churches , as being enough for our purpose , if they had not right to circumcision by vertue of their right in the covenant of grace , except they joyned to the church at first in abrahams family , and so after to the same church in israel ; and the more speciall church relation in abrahams family was required to circumcision , the stronger is the force of our reason , not the weaker . for so much the rather it followes , that seales are not to bee dispensed to beleevers ( as such ) though visibly professing the faith , except they joyne also to such a forme of the visible church , to , or in which the seales are instituted and given . reply . the true and proper meaning of this consideration is , that as circumcision , and the passeover were not to bee dispensed to all visible beleevers under the covenant of grace , but onely to such as were joyned to abrahams family , or the people of the god of abraham , no more may baptisme , and the lords supper be administred now to any beleevers , unlesse they be joyned to some particular congregation . answ . these words rightly stating the consideration wee leave it to any indifferent reader to judge , whether any way it make against it selfe , or whether there was any cause first to darken it as was done in the former passage . reply . the strength of it stands in the parity betweene circumcision and baptisme , but this parity is not found in every thing , as your selves alledge . to unfold it more fully , wee will consider three things . first , wherein the sacraments agree , and wherein they differ . answ . it matters not in how many things the sacraments differ , so they agree in the thing questioned , and though wee might raise disputes and queries about some particulars in this large discourse upon this first head , yet seeing here is a grant of the parity in the point now questioned , viz. concerning the persons to whom circumcision and baptisme doe belong , wee shall take what is granted , and leave the rest . for thus it is said , circumcision and baptisme are both sacraments of divine institution , and so they agree in substance of the things signified , the persons to whom they are to be administred , and the order of administration , if the right proportion be observed ▪ now that we hold the right proportion in the persons , may appear●… , first , in that ( as was granted ) circumcision sealed the entrance into the covenant , but this covenant was not simply , and onely the covenant of grace ; but that whole covenant , that was made with abraham , whereby on gods part they were assured of many speciall blessings , ( whereof lot , and others not in this covenant with abraham , were not capable ) and whereby abraham his seed , and family were bound for their part to be a people to god , and to observe this signe of the covenant , which others in the covenant of grace were not bound to . answ . secondly , ( as is granted ) it was abraham , and his houshold , and the seed of beleeving jewes that were the persons to bee circumcised , and therefore not visible beleevers , ( as such ) for then lot had been included : so by right proportion not all visible beleevers as such , but such as with abraham , and his family are in visible covenant to bee the people of god according to the institution of churches when , and to which the seale of baptisme is given ; and therefore as all family churches but abrahams being in a new forme of a church were excluded , so much more such as are in no visible constituted church at all . reply . secondly , as for the proposition it selfe , certaine it is , circumcision and the passeover were to bee administred onely to the visible members of the church , i. e. to men in covenant professing the true faith , but that in abrahams time none were members of the visible church , which joyned not to abrahams family , wee have not learned . answ . the proposition wee see is granted , yet it is obscured divers wayes , to which wee answer : first , whereas it is said these members of the church were men in covenant , professing the true faith . true , but where ? not in any place , but in the church of abrahams family , and so after in the church of israel . secondly , what faith ? not onely faith in the messiah for life , and salvation , but withall faith in the promises made to abraham , and his seed with subjection to the visible worship of god in that church , and to circumcision in particular . thirdly , that there were no others of the visible church besides abrahams family , is not said , but being so it strengthens the argument , as was shewed before . reply . in the first institution of circumcision god gave it to abraham , as the seale of the covenant formerly made with him , but of any church covenant , whereinto abrahams family should enter , we read not . answ . whether circumcision sealed any new covenant made with abraham , gen. . or that before , gen. . wee will not contend , neither is it materiall , bee it the same covenant hee entred into before for substance , yet it is evident , that this covenant was not simply and onely the covenant of grace , but had many peculiar blessings belonging to abraham , and his posterity , and family contained in it . gen. . and . it is very considerable that god made this covenant with abraham , when hee cal'd him out of that corrupt state of the church in ebers family to worship god more purely according to his institutions , gen. . . with josh . . . thirdly , this covenant , gen. . is more explicate , and full then before , and especially in that promise , which most properly concernes church covenant , viz. that god would take abraham and his seed into covenant with himselfe , euen an everlasting covenant to be a god unto them , vers . . and this in a speciall manner is that , which the lord saith hee would now establish betweene abraham and himselfe , viz. by this signe of the covenant , vers . , , . fourthly , this is the very covenant , which the lord renewed with abrahams seed afterward , when hee established them to bee a church or people to himselfe , as is evident , deut. . , . this the lord is said oft to remember , viz. to remember his covenant with abraham , when hee visited his seed with any mercy : exod. . , , , . psal . . , . and therefore it must needs bee a church covenant . fiftly , as gen. . the lord instituted a visible token , and seale of this covenant , so hee strictly enjoyned the observation of the same in all the seed and family of abraham , and that in all their generations : all which things especially joyntly considered make it evident , that abraham and his were not onely a people , but established a people to god in a church covenant , and that the same covenant , which was the foundation of the nationall church of god , that was after in his posterity , and to this covenant the seale of circumcision was added . reply . melchisedeck , lot , job might bee circumcised , though wee reade not of it , ( as wee read not that john baptist , or the apostles were baptized ) or if they were not circumcised , it may bee that institution was not knowne to them , or they were not required to joyne to abrahams family , and if they had , they should have transgressed , and so the reason was not , because they were not in church order , but because circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family in some peculiar respects . answ . though wee reade not of the administration of baptisme to john baptist , the apostles , and many others , yet wee reade of a rule that required it of them , and it was a part of that righteousnesse , of which the lord jesus saith to john , thus it becommeth us to fulfill all righteousnesse , matth. . . not for the institution of circumcision did bind lot , job , &c. yet that they were forbidden to joyne to abrahams family , and so bee circumcised , wee cannot say ; seeing afterwards proselytes were reecived into the same covenant and church , and so circumcised . secondly , that it was so appropriated to abrahams family , as that it was unlawfull for them to joyne to abrahams covenant , and be circumcised , this is more then can bee shewed ; or if lot , melchisedeck , job were excluded , yet out of question abraham might and did enlarge his family , and so might take in proselytes visible beleevers in the covenant of grace , and circumcise them , and so still the appropriating of circumcision to the church , and covenant of abrahams family , doth not weaken , but strengthen the argument , in as much as no visible beleever in the covenant of grace might partake of the seale but by joyning in visible covenant with that church to which it was given . thirdly , suppose job , lot ▪ &c. and their families were circumcised , ( as junius alledgeth jerome for it ) yet how will it appeare it was not by taking hold of the covenant of abraham , to which circumcision was applyed ? yet it seemes more probable , that lot , and other families in abrahams time were not partakers thereof , god intending ( as the effect shewes ) not to establish them nor theirs to bee his people , as by circumcision hee established abraham and his seed ; as for iob , if hee were of abrahams seed , and had circumcision hereditarily à materno , paternoque sanguine , ( as some thinke ) yet this makes nothing against the argument wee have now in hand . answ . after the church of the iewes was constituted ( when wee cannot imagine any church amongst the gentiles ) wee finde none must bee admitted to the passeover that was not circumcised , but nothing was required of a stranger , but that hee professe the true faith , and avouch the god of abraham to be his god , which must be done before hee could be reputed a visible beleever , or under the covenant of grace . reply . if any doubtfulnesse can bee raised about the church in abrahams family , yet the case is so cleare in the following story of the church , as you must needs grant the proposition , ( as you do ) and the church of the jewes is still but the same church , that was in abrahams house , and the covenant the same , for gen. . god established the covenant with him and his seed for an everlasting covenant to be a god unto them ; and in egypt the lord challenges them as his owne , his first borne , &c. and therefore there is the same reason of circumcision , first and last in respect of the persons , that had right unto it , but say you nothing was required to circumcision , but to professe the faith . but we demand first , what was it to a vouch the god of abraham to be his god ? was it not to subject himselfe to all the statutes , commandements , and judgements of god in his church to walke in them ? as is cleare : deut. . . was there not the same law for the stranger , and the home-borne ? secondly , where must they professe this faith , and avouch this god ? was it in any place where they dwelt , and so might they circumcise themselves ? must not this bee done amongst , and before the people of god in his visible church ? whence such were called proselytes , and reckoned of the common-wealth of israel , esay . , , , . and is not all this to joyne themselves to the visible instituted church before they were circumcised ? lastly , it is not true that no man could be reputed a visible beleever before hee did all this . that which followes pag. . is answered before . reply . if lot , job , &c. were not circumcised , there is not the like reason for circumcision , and baptisme in this particular . answ . the force of the consideration doth not depend upon the likenesse of reason betweene the persons to be circumcised and baptized in every respect , but in this , that as circumcision and the passeover were given onely to visible members of that instituted visible church , and therefore so in this case of baptisme , and the lords supper : now therefore if you could alledge many more different reasons betweene lot , job , &c. that were not circumcised , and those not to bee baptized , it would little availe in the case , but wee shall consider your differences particularly . reply . first , if ever circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family , and might not be communicated to other visible beleevers , it was in the first institution , but in the first institution of baptisme , it was not so observed , that beleevers should bee gathered into a christian church , and then baptized . mat. . . john baptized such as came to him , confessing their sinnes , the apostles baptized disciples , such as gladly received their doctrine , &c. answ . there is no such disparity in this as is objected , for abrahams family was in covenant before circumcision was given , onely the covenant was more fully explained and confirmed : and so when john baptized , hee baptized the members of the jewes church in covenant before , to whom hee was sent to turne the heart of the fathers to the children , &c. and to prepare a people for the lord , and baptisme was then given to the church of the jewes with reference to so many as would receive the doctrine of john , concerning repentance and remission of sinnes by faith in the messiah now come amongst them , and therefore christ himselfe , and his disciples remained yet members of that church . secondly , though the visible kingdome of christ was not yet to bee erected in christian churches , till after christs death and resurrection , whereby hee did put an end to the jewish worship , and therefore no christian churches could bee gathered by john , yet there was a middle state of a people prepared for the lord , gathered out of the jewish church , which according to that state were made the disciples of john , by solemne profession of their repentance or conversion to god , and acknowledgement of christ the lambe of god already come , to whom the seale of baptisme was appropriated . as for the instances , act. . . &c. and . . and . , . they are spoken to before in the first consideration . reply . secondly , lot , job , &c. were not bound to joyne to abrahams family , and bee circumcised , but now all visible beleevers are bound to seeke baptisme in an holy manner . answ . first , this difference makes little to the point in hand , it is enough , that all that would be circumcised were bound to joyne to that church , and so now . secondly , in after times no doubt every true proselyte fearing god was bound to joyne to that church , as well as now ; and if now all visible beleevers be bound to professe their faith , and seek baptisme in an holy manner , why should they not bee bound to joyne to some visible church , and seeke it there , ( as well as of old ? ) yea where should they professe their faith , but in the visible churches , as the proselytes of old did ? your third difference is oft pressed , and answered before . reply . fourthly , if circumcision bee appropriated to the family of abraham , it is because that covenant was peculiar to abrahams posterity , namely , that christ should come of isaac , but baptisme is the seale of the covenant of grace without peculiarity or respect . answ . this difference is of little moment , neither will it hold , for first , though that , and other promises had a speciall eye to abrahams family , yet circumcision sealed the righteousnesse of faith , rom. . to them being in visible covenant with the church , as baptisme now doth . secondly , this peculiar respect you speake of , no way hindereth the joyning of many servants to abrahams family , and covenant , nor any proselytes to the church afterward of any nation , no more then now in respect of baptisme . thirdly , the true reason was , because although the covenant was made with others , yet not established , nor enlarged towards them ; and hence if they would partake of such a covenant , they must joyne in this ; which also is the glory of the rich grace of christ shining forth in church-covenant with all that will become a people to him to this day . the first difference is answered in the first and second . chap. ix . consid . . reply . to the fourth consideration , first , men are capable of church censures , either as having power to dispense them : or as being subject unto them , &c. in the second sense , many are capable of church priviledges , who are not subject to church censures : as the children of christian parents are capable of baptisme , and approved members of any true church are capable of seales in other congregations amongst you , who are not subject to the censures of the other congregation , spiritual communion in publike prayer , whereof visible beleivers ( not in church order ) are capable , but not subject to common censures in your sense . answ . this distinction is needlesse : our meaning is plaine in the second sense , and therefore wee say nothing to what is objected against the first . to the instances objected against the proposition in the second sense , wee answer first concerning the infants of church-members , they are subject to censures , whensoever they offend the church , as others are , though so long as they live innocently , they need them not . secondly , members of any true visible church are subject , and so capable of censure , ( though not in another church ) which is not in in the proposition . . also they are capable of censures mediately by and in that other church , if they there offend : for that church may admonish and prosecute the admonition in the church to which they belong , and refuse society with them , if they repent not , which cannot bee said of such as are not members of any visible church , who cannot be prosecuted to excommunication in any place . thirdly , publike prayers of the church , though they bee an ordinance of christ , and the church have a speciall communion in them , in which respect others do not share , yet they are not a priviledge or peculiar ordinance , wherein none but the church may share , for an heathen or infidel may hear the word and joyne in the prayers , being cultus naturalis , saying amen unto the same ; which cannot be said of seales and censures , being cultus institutus . reply . secondly , a person baptized , is not baptized into that particular congregation onely , but into all churches , and in every particular church hath all the priviledges of the baptized person , and so to be esteemed of them . now the privil●…dge of the baptized person , walking in the truth , and able to examine himselfe , is to bee admitted to the lords supper , as all circumcised persons had right thereby to eate the passeover in any society , where god should choose to put his name there , exod. . . deut. . , . answ . this seemeth to touch the question it selfe , rather then the proposition of this fourth consideration : but wee shall answer to it as it stands . . here you grant that a person baptized , is baptized unto a particular congregation : which wee accept as a yeelding of the question unawares . . if you meane , that such hath a liberty of communion in a way of brotherly love in all churches where he comes , wee grant , ( so farre as nothing in him justly hinder ) but if you meane that hee is baptized into all churches , so as to challenge a right of membership in them all , wee deny it , as a position that would take away all distinction of churches , as wee have formerly shewed . . we deny that the lords supper is the priviledge of a baptized person , able to examine himself , & walking in the truth as a baptized person , for then a papist converted to the truth , able to examine himselfe , hath a right to the lords supper in every church , before he make any profession of his conversion , and faith in any particular church , for hee may bee such a baptized person . and we may say the like of an excommunicate penitent . . we grant that a baptized person is not onely baptized in to that particular church whereof hee was first a member : for if it bee a seale of his initiation into that particular church onely , then he must bee rebaptized as oft as hee enters into another , but hee is baptized ( in the sense formerly shewed ) into the whole mysticall body of christ , and hence hath jus ad rem , or a remote right unto the priviledges of the church every where , but that therefore he hath immediate right to the fruition of all , when he is severed from that particular church wherein he was baptized , that follows not : for as he had this latter right in the first church wherein hee was baptized , so he must have it in any of the churches of christ afterward ; now if in the first church the fruition of ordinances came by orderly joyning to it : so it must be afterward , for as wee said before , such as the communion is , such ought to be the union , he that would have politicall communion with the politicall churches of christ , must be some where in politicall union with them , otherwise one may have communion in all churches & yet never unite himself to any one , which loose walking we are perswaded christ jesus will not allow . the similitude from a circumcised person will not hold . first , because there is no parity between severall families in the same church , and severall churches in the new testament , but rather severall seats of communicants in the same church answers , severall ●…amilies eating the passeover in the church of the jewes . secondly ▪ an edomite circumcised though he were converted , and acknowledged the true god in his owne country never so fully , yet might not eate the passeover till he joyned to the church of israel as all other proselytes did : & so is it here . reply . thirdly , there is not the same reason of every church priviledge ; one may have right to some who may not meddle with others , as members of one church may joyne in hearing and prayer with another church : but not medale in election and ordination of their teachers , and therefore the pr●…position is not so evid●…nt to bee taken without proofe , that they have no power to admit a beleever into communion in any church priviledge , who have no power to excommunicate . answ . what is here objected from the liberty or restriction of church members in another congregation , is answered before in the first objection , and therefore the proposition may stand good for all that is here said . that which is set down as the proposition , is neither the same with that in our reason , nor any way allowed by us ; for wee speake not here of power to admit , but of the right to bee partakers : neither doe wee deny a power in officers to admit members of other churches to the seales , though they have no power to excommunicate them . if our proposition seeme to need proofe : the reason of it is at hand , because those that are the peculiar priviledges or proper priviledges or proprieties of the church , as seales and censures being of the same nature , viz. outward ordinances of christ ordained by him for the edification of his church and joyntly given to his church : and therefore looke to what church hee hath given the one , hee hath given the other also : if the one , viz. censures , bee given to the church of a visible congregation , then the other : they are all ( both seales and censures ) contained in the keys which are given to the visible instituted churches of the new testament : not to the catholick ( as such : ) for a godly man justly cast out of the particular church , yet cannot bee cast out of the catholick . reply . that visible beleevers baptized into a true church , professing the true faith , and walking in holy obedience , and their seed should be judged such as are without in the apostles sense , because they are not externally joyned as set members to some peculiar congregation in church covenant , is affirmed , not proved . answ . comming to the assumption of our argument it is expressed ( according to the frequent manner in this reply ) in such termes as it is not affirmed by us , and the●●●ore if it want proof , blame not us : our assumption is ; such as are not in church covenant are not capable of church censures : where by being in church covenant wee meane either implicitly or explicitly , membership in any true church , as in our answer wee expresse to prevent mistakes : and this is proved from cor. . . and in applying hereof wee doe not affirme that such are simply without in the apostles sense , but in some respect onely , viz. in regard of visible church communion . reply . first , it doth oft fall out that the true members of the catholick church and best members of the orthodox church , by a prevailing faction in the church , may bee no members of any distinct society , and shall their posterity be counted aliens from the covenant , and debarred from the sacraments , because their parents are unjustly separated from the inheritance of the lord ? answ . this objection is before answered in the first consideration , where was given the instance of athanasius , and it is answered by the reply it selfe in the next words ▪ surely as parents unjustly excommunicated , doe continue still visible members of the flock of christ ( understand that particular church out of which they are cast , ) so the right of baptism belongs to their infants : which being so , they are not without that church , though debarred unjustly of the present communion with it , unlesse he renounce that church , or other . reply . secondly , if such churches renounce it as are no members of a politick spirituall fellowship be without , then the m●…mbers of one church are without unto another , &c. answ . this objection wee have had and answered oft before ▪ in a word , there cannot bee the like reason , no not in respect of that other church , who may in a due order of christ persecute the censures against them , though not compleatly amongst themselves ▪ which cannot be●… said of such as have not joyned themselves to any church ▪ and therefore wee deny t●…at the apostles reason was because they were without to corinth ▪ but without to all churches . reply . thirdly , ( the fornicators of this world ) doe they not explaine whom the apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without verse the . . such as had not received the covenant of grace ? answ . wee n●…ver thought otherwise but that the fornicators of this world and the heathen are most properly without in the apostles sense ; but if our words bee observed , that in a certaine respect , or as our words are , in regard of visible church communion , such as are in no church society are said to bee without , what great offence have wee given ? for first , is not a godly man ( if justly e●…communicate ) without in this sense . secondly , doth not the apostle iohn expresly call them without that forsooke the fellowship of the church , iohn . . saying they w●…nt out ? thirdly , were not the catechum●…ni of old in this respect without , and the lapsed in times of persecution , and the like●… who ( in those zealous and severe times of church discipline ) were not onely said to bee without , but stood without , though weeping and praying as penitents at the church doores , sometimes for two or three yeeres ? and after this degree of preparation for entrance into the church which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ there were three more before they were received to the lords supper : which severity though wee approve not , yet it may mollifie the mindes of the godly learned that are apt to bee offended at such a word from us . fourthly , our saviour himselfe expresly saith ( and that not onely of those of no church ) but such as were even of the visible church , and his ordinary hearers , that many of them were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or men without ▪ and therefore this application of cor. . . need not bee called insolent , or raise such an hubbub abroad , as wee perceive it doth . reply . fourthly , church order is necessary wee deny not , but that a man should bee a constant set member of a particular society by covenant to make him a member of the visible church , or to give him title or interest to the publike order , this is not taught of god. this is but a bare denyall of the position it selfe , but what is meant by publike order wee know not : or where the order of christ ( which is granted to bee necessary ) can bee found but in particular churches , wee are yet to learne , neither is it anywhere taught in this reply , and wee would gladly learne how that church should orderly deale with such a man in case of offence that is of no particular church . reply . fiftly , paul divides all men into two rankes , the first and greater without , the last and lesser within , but that believers , &c. and their children should be reckoned without , we read not in any scripture , but in scripture phrase hereticks themselves are within . john . . cor. . . answ . all that is said in this objection except the last clause , is but a repeated deniall of the conclusion in other words : to the objection about hereticks within , wee grant they are within till cast out or gone out of the church , john . . and if gone out , how are they within ? and so if an orthodox professor will frowardly forsake all churches and live alone , or among the heathen , how is hee within ? we speake onely in generall . reply . sixtly , this hath not beene beleeved in the church ? answ . wee are not bound in every thing to be of the churches faith , and what wee have said before may satisfie here . reply . seventhly , without are dogs , &c. rev. . . not such as are faithfull , holy , &c. answ . true , properly such are without , not these , yet in some respects ( as hath been said ) others also may be without , as such as forsake the church , &c. as was before said more fully . reply . eighthly , they that are without in the apostles sense are aliens from the commonwealth of israel , strangers from the covenant of promise , having no hope , and without god in the world ; but we hope you will not passe such rash censure upon the brethren who bee not gathered into the society as set members . answ . to say some beleevers may bee without in some respect ▪ is farre from such a censure : the scripture saith of israel in their corrup●… estate , and defect of the ordinances of god , that they were a long time without god , without law , without a teaching priest , yet that hard expression doth not equall them with the heathen , much lesse to say some beleevers are without the visible church in regard of visible church communion , and wee judge no otherwise of such then of our selves when wee were in the like case . reply . ninthly , 〈…〉 shall ●…ee without 〈◊〉 that is not 〈…〉 of the particular combination , 〈…〉 reformed . churches that ascribe the 〈…〉 , and not to the community ▪ and some amongst 〈…〉 also . and therefore wee 〈…〉 approved christ 〈…〉 are either without or not capable of church censures : if they offen●… , though no set members , for 〈…〉 themselves 〈…〉 ordinances for a time , and 〈…〉 ●…ffending 〈◊〉 . answ . this objection hath no colour without extreame straining of our application o●… cor ▪ . ●… , seeing 〈◊〉 never limited the position to churches of the same judgemen●… , or in like degree of order to ours ; it is onely a forced 〈◊〉 which is cast upon us , but wee can 〈…〉 our brethren ●…and●… , neither doe we know any church o●… 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 the power of the keys to the presbytery or classi●… , excluding the community amongst us . secondly , for that objection that such pu●… themselves under the ordinances of christ for the time ; if with profession of faith and subjection to the government of christ , they desire seales , it is something ; but that the 〈◊〉 de●…i●…ing of seales doth include such a subjection in it selfe , being 〈◊〉 for this or that act of administration , wee cannot understand : but let this bee really made good , that defiting seales it being a way , that subjects themselves to the church as members , and the case will bee issued , being understood of such approved christians as the position speakes of . lastly , to proceed against such as a●… not members , or of another church , as with an offending member of our owne , is not much unlike the proceedings of victor in his contentious time or may sow the seeds of such usurpations , which wee leave to the godly wise to consider of . reply . tenthly , if upon good reason a passage of scripture can bee cleared to prove that for which it was never alleadged by any writer , wee are not to except against it for want of mans testimony , onely in such cases our reasons must bee convincing , but for the exposition of this text wee have not observed one substantiall ground or approved author to bee alledged . dr. ames shewing the necessitie of christians joyning themselves to some peculiar church giveth this reason ; quoniam alias fieri non potest quin conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt , cor. . . but herein dr. ames manifestly sheweth that by them without , heathens and unbeleevers must be understood , and not beleevers , though of no setled society for the time ; for thus wee conceive hee argueth . the signes whereby the faithfull are to bee discerned from unbeleevers must not bee confounded : but unlesse christians make themselves actuall members of a church , the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers , will bee obscured and darkned : and if this be his reason , how can that text bee alledged unlesse by men without , infidels bee understood ? answ . first , that we have reasons to alledge it in that sense and respect declared , may appeare by our answers to your objections . secondly , that wee have one approved authour so alleadging it , viz. doctor ames , shall appeare in cleering his meaning from your objections . . grant that by men without ( according to doctor ames his reason ) infidels be understood by the apostle , yet how shall the signes discerning beleevers from unbeleevers , bee confounded by such as joyne not to some particular church , if those beleevers doe not in some respect stand without amongst unbeleevers ? and the consequence is so plaine that the owne syllogisme whereinto you cast his argument would have concluded so much , if it had been suffered to speake out in the conclusion . for in stead of saying , except such joyne to some church , the signes will be darkned and obscured ; the reason rightly concluded would have said ( fieri non potest ) it cannot bee but the signes will bee confounded : and therefore in his judgement it is unavoidabl●… that such mix themselves with unbeleevers , that are without indeed properly in the apostles sense . reply . againe , doctor ames , lib. . cap. . speaking of infants to be received , saith it is required , first , that they be in the covenant of grace by outward profession , &c. answ . what you alledge here out of doctor ames , wee confesse sheweth that hee was very large in his charity about the baptizing of infants , extending the same to the child of a papist , &c. but it may seeme by some passages that hee understood by profession of faith , such as live in the visible churches , and lookes at the child of a papist as one of a visible church for substance , though so exceedingly corrupt : but all this do not disprove that he understood cor. . . otherwise then hath been said . what you alledge out of his second manuduction concerning the churches of england we consent unto , neither doe wee deny seales to any , if they demand them as members of any true church in england , and in an orderly way . chap. x. consid . . reply . to the first consideration , if it bee repugnant to divine institution to admit of approved christians lawfully baptized , walking in the faith , members of the visible churches , and partakers of church priviledges amongst us , to the lords supper , or their children to baptisme , because they bee not entered into church-fellowship according to your order , then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to bee feared , but if by accident some abuse should fall out , the evill is to bee prevented by all lawfull meanes , but the faithfull are not to be debarred utterly of the order of god , whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious institution . answ . wee cannot but still complaine of this liberty , which is taken in changing the termes of the question , first : that clause , members of visible churches , is not in the po●…ition , nor is it maintained by us in that sense , neither doe wee limit church-fellowship to our order , ( as it is called ) but acknowledge churches defective in matters of order , ( as was said ) in the answer : and therefore it is an apparent wrong to us and to the readers , so oft to put in such things as are not in the controversie . secondly , if it bee unlawfull by divine institution , may not evill consequences bee added , and if both hold , are not our reasons the more strong ? what needeth then such a reply ? thirdly , we have oft granted a remote right , but next and immediate we still deny , and wee conceive no other order of god in his churches to prevent such evils , then by joyning to the instituted churches of christ ▪ reply . seals may bee prophaned when the dispensers cannot helpe it : but here is no feare or danger of such consequences necessary to follow : for wee speake not of all sorts , at randome , but of christians professing the faith intirely , lawfully baptized , knowne and approved to the wise and judicious visible members of the churches amongst us sufficiently known to you , or orderly recommended , &c. answ . the feare and danger in this case is more then ( so farre off ) can easily bee discerned , though the limitations bee good in themselves , yet the application of this description in the first part of it would open a doore wider then many can imagine , for many such ( in the judgement even of the wisest ) comming into this state of temptations prove farre otherwise , ( even your selves being judges , if you were here ) wee suppose the experience of the discoveries god hath made in these late trials of england , amongst forward professors , will teach our brethren to consider how many professors may prove here . yet secondly , if you add such as retaining their membership in your churches , are recommended unto us by your churches , or by known godly ministers , wee can then according to order receive them , and avoid the confusion and inconveniences wee objected . thirdly , if also it be taken into the description , knowne and sufficiently approved of our selves , then the doore is open to them to the communion of the church and all the priviledges thereof , though they cannot settle in the place of their present abode , and this way of order would prevent the inconveniences : but if wee come to put a difference any other way , wee cannot avoid it but great offence will be given to many , and the inconveniences objected in some degree at least will follow here with us , and it may be much more in some other places . reply . you professe high respect to your brethren in old england , but it seemes you judge them insufficient to give you orderly testimony of the sincerity of approved christians well known and living amongst them , which two cannot well agree . answ . this position holds forth no such judgement of the insufficiency of our brethren in the case , neither have we shewed it by rejecting such orderly testimony that we know . reply . wee speake not of such , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospell of christ , or to joyne to some approved church , &c. answ . neither doe wee impute that to all that joyne not unto us , but our meaning is , that under such a description of approved christians , we shall bee necessitated to admit of some , if not many such . reply . no question but many have been admitted by the church , who in truth are much too light , and some refused , who are better deserving then they that cast them off . answ . bee it so , that through personall failings , and weaknesse of discerning , it may and doe fall out sometimes , yet this no way hinders , but that all lawfull meanes to prevent the same may and ought to be used , and this we may before the lord professe , that the purpose and desire of our hearts are , as well to embrace the weakest humble christian , as to keepe out the proud pharisee ▪ and wee have seen a gracious presence of christ in his churches , blessing our indeavours therein , whatsoever any discontented persons returning back , may clamour to the contrary . chap. xi . consid . . reply . to the sixt consideration , this conclusion is not to the question propounded : for wee speake of such as cannot , not of such as refuse to joyne themselves to the churches ; or if they doe not joyne , it is not out of contempt , or wilfull neglect , but for lacke of opportunity , or through their default , that should admit them , but doe not . answ . the learned authour h●…re wholly mistakes the conclusion of this argument ; the conclusion is plaine and expressed with the ordinary note , ergo no christian can expect by the appointment of god , to partake in the seales , till he hath joyned himselfe in church-fellowship , and in the call of the minister ; and this is fully to the question propounded : and wee marvel●… it should not be observed , but the last words of the answer should bee put in stead of it , which are onely a secondary deduction from the former , as an absurdity , which may follow : if the other be not granted . and yet hence occasion is taken to charge us with injurious and tyrannical dealing toward such as are not admitted , which we leave to the lord to judge of , and of us . you say , you accuse not the discretion of our churches , but impute it to the rashnesse of the zealous multitude , but if it were so practised , as is conceived , the churches and their guides should shew little wisedome , and faithfulnesse to the lord , and the soules of his people . reply . when a reason is demanded of your judgement , why you debarre approved christians from the seales , and we dislike it , you should put this note upon them , as if against light they refused orderly to subject themselves to the gospell of christ . what warrant you have thus to censure , what use of this manner of dispute , we leave it to your godly wisedome to judge . answ . wee are heartily sorry that this reverend man of god , out of a meere and palpable mistake of the conclusion of the dispute , should runne out to condemne us for so much c●…nsoriousnesse of others without cause , whether our manner of dispute bee here so without use , wee leave to the judicious reader to judge . and that wee are far from such censures of godly approved christians amongst us , wee can approve our selves to god , and the consciences of many that live amongst us , wee doe not say that all who doe not joyne with us , doe refuse against light , yet wee finde it true too oft , that forward professors in england here discover evidently an heart refusing against light to submit to gods ordinances , and therefore wee had cause to say , it were unreasonable such should have equall liberty with others . reply . in the consideration it selfe there are many propositions couched to be examined , the first , that none have power to dispense seales but such as are called to the ministry , is freely granted . the second , that no man can be so called , till there bee a church to call him , needeth explication . for by the church you must understand the community of the faithfull , as they are one body without officers , and such a church there cannot be , without a ministry to call , and admit them into church fellowship . answ . this consideration shines with such clearenesse , that an impartiall eye may easily see that the truth by sundry divertic●…l●… i●… rather clouded , then the argument fairely answered , this second proposition being too plaine to bee denied , interpretation●… are sought , but they are rather objections , to which wee shall answer in order . first , though wee grant the lord ordinarily gathered churches by the ministry of men in office , as the apostles , evangelists , &c. yet not alwayes so , as is evident , acts . , ●… . the story of waldus is well knowne , and we suppose you will grant those waldense●… the name of a true church . origen when hee was not allowed of the church to bee a ministe●… , yet converted many who died martyrs . the story also of frumentius is well known , with divers others . secondly , ministers by office are of two sorts , either such as are called immediatly or mediatly , such as were immediatly and extraordinarily called , were before churches , and were called together and begin churches , ( as the apostles , matth. . . act. . . ) but all ordinary officers that are to administer in a church doe necessarily presuppose a church to call them , unlesse any will adventure to say in plaine english , that the calling of a minister may bee without the antecedent election of the people , and then wee shall finde what to reply . reply . the apostles ●…aptized not themselves , but by the helpe of others , and those not called of the people to baptize , cor. . . answ . bee it so that in corinth paul baptized not many but by others , yet first we demand , by whom did paul and the apostles baptize ? it was either by evangelists , and so it is all one , as if the apostles , as extraordinary officers did it , or by the pastors newly chosen and ordained in the churches newly gathered , who might baptize the rest ; and then the church was before such officers : or else by private persons , which is denyed expresly in the reply to the first proposition . reply . the apostles appointed by election elders in every city or church , and so there was a church before elders , but this church was a society of beleevers by baptisme admitted into church fellowship , and therefore there must be ministers to baptize , before there can bee a church to call a minister . for a company of unbaptized men cannot choose a minister to baptize them . answ . wee see here still how unawares the truth of this proposition and of the position it selfe breaketh forth ; for the proposition it is fully yeelded and is most plain in the place alluded to acts . vers . . and the position is yeelded also , for if the apostles admitted beleevers into all those churches in the first constitution of them by baptisme , ( which is the very truth wee contend for , and was formerly denyed ) and these churches were such as chose elders ( and therefore were particular churches ) and so the cause is fully yeelded . reply . a company of converts unbaptized ought to desire baptisme , but they have no power to elect one amongst themselves to dispense the s●●les unto the rest , &c. it can never bee shewed in scripture that any society of unbaptized did first choose from among themselves a pastour or teacher by whom they might bee baptized , you cannot produce one example or other proofe in scripture of one man teaching the gospel ministerially , but hee was baptized and a member of a true church or of a society , who made choyce of a pastor or teacher , but they were baptized persons . answ . if all this were granted that when churches were gathered by apostles and extraordinary officers out of persons unbaptized , they were first baptized into church fellowship , before they chose officers , and so long as the apostles remained , enjoyed from them other ordinances , as act. . and so had no officers chosen by themselves , but by christ immediatly for them , yet as when the apostles left them , they must choose officers if they will enjoy ordinances : so when there is no such apostles nor evangelists , nor no need of baptisme , ( as is usually the cause of christians arising out of popery ) in this case wee say such churches can partake of no ordinances without they choose officers , and yet this varyeth not from the scripture patterne neither . but onely so farre as the state of those beleevers differ , when paul found about twelve beleevers at ephes●…s , who were baptized by john the baptist , act. . . &c. if these were by the apostle set into a constituted church , as is probable , ( being called on further to the knowledge of christ and his will and wayes ) there was no need of baptizing them againe with water , but onely with the holy ghost , as the apostles were at pentecost , act. . . with . . . and yet no varying from the rule in so doing : and the like is our case now . if this bee so as here you urge , then those former assertions must needs fall to the ground ; as , that every society in covenant with god is the true church of god , page . and that it is simply necessary to the being of a church , that it bee layd upon christ the foundation , which being done , the remaining of what is forbidden , or want of what is commanded , cannot put the society from the right and title of a church . if these were so a company of unbaptized persons may bee a church , being in covenant with god and layd on christ the foundation , though they want baptisme . though no such example of unbaptized persons choosing a pastour among themselves can bee shewed , when there was no need thereof ; ( apostles being at hand to baptize them ) yet why in absence of apostles , &c. might they not choose some other baptized christian , who comming into some farre remote country of infidels , is a meanes of their conversion ; wee see nothing to hinder : it would bee hard for any to shew an example of presbyters holding a synod or ordaining of elders , without apostles or some extraordinary officer , yet we suppose , you make no doubt of such things . if an example of one unbaptized that preached & baptized ministerially would satisfie , the example of iohn the baptist might answer your demand , for whether hee baptized himselfe , or were baptized by some other at first , an unbaptized person did baptize , but wee see no need of such an example : scripture grounds are sufficient to guide us in these cases , bee they rules , examples or good consequences deduced from them , and wee reason thus ; a church of beleevers professing christ have liberty from christ to choose their officers : but a company of unbaptized men professing the entire faith in a combined society , is a true church : and therefore may choose their officers . reply . the third proposition : that the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church , must also rightly be understood , by the church must not be understood the faithfull alone , but their guids and officers with them , who are to goe before them and to governe and direct them in their choyce , neither can wee say two or three beleevers linked in a society is such a church , to whom the call of ministers do belong , but that right was given by christ to such churches , as were gathered by the apostles . answ . the first limitation of this proposition wee passe over as being spoken to in the former ; to this wee answer , that when a church have guides , wee grant they are to governe them therein , but not to limit them , whom to choose , but when the church have no such guides , ( as by death and other wayes it may fall out , ) shall they then lose their right of choosing ? if so , let it be shewed to whom the right falls ; they may take what counsell and helpe from others they want , but the choyce is onely in them , and therefore this limitation is needlesse . for the number of two or three wee contend not , but such churches as the apostles gathered were particular congregations , and therefore the right is in such , bee they more or fewer . when bellarmine saith , that our ministers intruded themselves into churches ; no , saith dr. field , for the people elected them , which they might lawfully doe and separate from wicked ministers , which hee proves by the testimony of cyprian , writing to the bishops of spaine not to communicate with basilides and martialis , who fell to idolatry in times of persecution , quando ipsa plebs potestatem habet , &c. also from ocham , who saith , si papa & maxime celebres episcopi incidunt in haeresin , ad catholicos devoluta est potestas omnis judicandi : to which hee addes this reason , either they must separate from them , and choose others , or consent to their impieties . field lib. . cap. . what followeth in this place being little to this point , and for the most part not scrupled by us : and what is not acknowledged by us , wee shall have a fitter occasion to speake to it , therefore here wee passe it over . reply . proposi . . that all those who desire seales are bound to joyne themselves in church fellowship , that so they may call a minister to dispense the seales unto them , will not follow from the former rightly understood : for they must partake of the seales before they can joyne themselves together in church estate . answ . to this objection was spoken before , onely we marvell why you say they must first partake of seales , when as acts . they were baptized and added to the church the same day : and 't is granted the apostles gathered churches by baptisme . reply . such as for lack of meanes and opportunity cannot joyne in such estate , or bee dispersed persecution or destitute of pastors or teachers , may for a time seeke the seales in other societies . answ . the first instance is the thing in question ; and such as may come to any society to desire seales are not wholly destitute of meanes and opportunity to joyne , viz. to that society . the two other instances being of such as may bee supposed still to hold their right in a church society ; the thing i●… granted by us in way of communion of churches . reply . the people also who are deprived of right and libertie to chuse their pastour , may desire the seales of him that is set over them . answ . this objection is easie , for in desiring seales of him and submitting themselves to his ministry , they doe now choose him ; however at first they opposed his comming . but what is this to what ought to bee in an orderly way whereof wee speake ? reply . these propositions being allowed for currant ; a nation or people plunged into idolatry or infidelity , or otherwise dischurched cannot by ordinary meanes recover into a church estate , wherein they may lawfully and according to gods appointment desire or expect that the seales of the covenant shall bee dispensed unto them . answ . what should hinder , if the whole nation would bee willing , to recover themselves into churches ? indeed that is rare to be found that all will affect such a recovery . but wee see nothing to hinder but all the nation or so many as are awakened in conscience to bewaile their apostasie and lament after the lord , having especially the countenance of the supreme magistrate , severall companies of christians may combine in churches so as may best suite with their edification , chuse officers and injoy ordinances . nay , è contra , our protestant divines , as chemnitius , field , brentius , whitacher , luther , &c. make peoples power of electing their ministers the best foundation of a peoples recovery of a true ministry and church estate . reply . the fifth proposition riseth beyond measure , that no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seales , till hee have joyned himselfe in church fellowship and in the call of the minister ▪ we conceive you will not say that children and women have to doe in the call of the minister . if some part of the church doe not consent in the call of the minister , must they separate from the ordinances of worship , &c. answ . the seeming s●…ellings of this proposition will easily full and run within bankes and bounds , if it bee received in its true sense and meaning ; for by the call of a minister must needs bee understood the voluntary subjection of all church members to his ministery after hee is called , as well as the act of election of him at the first : it were irrationall to thinke a minister is to bee chosen over againe , whensoever a member is added to the church . and therefore ou●… meaning was not hard to conceive , and being so taken , women choose their minister , that is , voluntarily submit to him being chosen : children are subjected to him by their parents : the dissenting part of the church ought to submit to him being chosen , and ●…oe if they remaine under his ministry ; and so in all other cases you have or can suppose . reply . here you say people must joyne in the call of a minister before they can lawfully desire and bee admitted to the seales . and another hath zealously affirmed , it is a presumptuous sinne to choose an officer not trayned up and tryed in deba●…ing , dis●…ss●…g , c●…ying and contriving church affaires , in ad●…nishing , ●…ch●…ting , comforting , &c. l●…y these together and consider how long many a poore soule converted to the faith must bee compelled to w●…t gods ordinances . answ . first , it doth not answer the profession in the latter thus to joyne us with mr. robinson as another of the same sort as it were . for such as would gladly receive euery syllable from us that may dislodge their thoughts of separation in us ( as wee are heartily desired to bee assured of in the epistle to this reply ) wee thinke would not so closely joyne us with such they would have us parted from ; and upon so little occasion and to so little purpose , unlesse they doe much forget themselves . secondly , when it cannot be denied but the choyse of ministers is in the church , and that hands should not rashly bee laid on any man : and deacons the lowest office should bee proved and then minister being found blamelesse ; yea hee saith and these also proved , implying that others also should bee so , tim. . . what fault can be found with the substance of what either robinson or our selves speake , if our meaning , and his were but charitably taken ? if his word bee over-zealous to say it is a presumpteous sin to doe otherwise , what is that to us ? thirdly , for the delay of ordinances , if both these be taken together : in most cases it need not be long , where god affordeth able and fit men for office . but if some delay be , and that a church want some ordinances , and cannot by communion with other churches injoy them , ( which is rare , ) yet is it not better to forbeare some ordinances a while , then miscarry in so great a worke as the choise of officers , upon which the following comfort and good of the church doth so much depend ? the demand following is answered in this whole discourse , and wee hope not with words but proofes ; especially in our answer to the reply in the first consideration : neither doe wee see any such difficulty , but that such christians may as easily joyne to such a church for a time , as desire to injoy the ordinances , and to sit loose from it : for transient members we disallow not . reply . if the propositions may stand for good , i feare we shal scarce finde that ever in ordinary way the sacraments were lawfully dispensed or received in the christian churches of god since the first foundation of them . answ . if they bee taken in their true meaning , and in that latitude we intend them , wee see no such cause of scruple . for what is more ordinary in all true churches , then for people , first to chuse their ministers , & then to receive the seals at their hands ? and this hath beene the way of ancient reformers , it is true ▪ many corruptions have beene in many true churches , and usurpations upon the right of the people in choosing their ministers , as also in administrations of the ordinances themselves , and oft in the constitution of churches . but as the maintaining of any truth of god against those corruptions in worship , &c. doth not argue an unlawfulnesse of the ordinances in such churches , but convinceth onely the corrupt administration of them : so in this case to assert the right way of churches electing officers , and injoying ordinances against all corruptions that have beene in the churches , doth not make a nullity of the ordinances themselves . we may say that this conclusion riseth beyond measure . the objections being thus answered , we leave the conclusion to the judgement of the indifferent reader . chap. xii . reply . to the seventh consideration , the practise of the church of strangers in london , recorded by john alasco , is far differing from your judgment and practise in the point in question . for first , say they , paul testifieth that the church it self , without exception of any member of it , is cleane or holy by the administration of baptisme . answ . we confesse the same . reply . secondly , they hold communion with the church of england as one with theirs . answ . the church of england they call it not , but the english churches : and we deny not the same in an orderly way : as they also required testimony of their piety , if any did but present a child to baptisme in their church . wee have often professed this , and by your owne grant most of the approved christians amongst us are not members of the english churches , having renounced their right of membership and commuion with the church they were of there . reply . thirdly , this order was observed by them to prevent the impostures of some that pretended to the english they were joyned to the strangers ; & contra . answ . this was not the onely reason of their order ; for his words are , all strangers doe not joyne themselves to our church ; yea there are those that avoiding all churches , &c. which plainely sheweth they looked further then such according to our practise : even their owne country men fled for religion , as we are : they yet received them not till by publike profession of faith and subjection to discipline , they joyned themselves to some congregationall church . secondly , this sheweth what disorder and abuse of ordinances will follow from such a liberty to admit such as are not joyned to some church : for by this meanes many will neglect all order and discipline , if they may but have the seales . thirdly , to put all out of question that their practise and judgement in effect was the same with ours in this point , note the first question propounded by them , are these infants which you offer the seed of this , church that they may lawfully be here baptized by our ministery ? chap. xiii . thus farre wee have answered to the reply made to the considerations in our answer to the . and . positions . now whereas wee tooke notice of three objections against our first consideration , and answered the same : it pleaseth the learned authour to take up onely two of them , and with much inlargement to urge the same as his reasons against the positions , and to apply our answers thereunto ; by which meanes our answers to the objections briefly set downe may seeme not so apt and full here as they would appeare in their proper places : and therefore it will bee needfull for us to inlarge our selves somewhat in answering some passages at least in the reasons as they are here propounded , before we come to the reply . reply . reason . . that sacred order god hath set in his visible church , &c. answ . these words with all that follow , whatever they may seeme to carry with them , are nothing but a bare denyall of the positions in variety of expressions . reply . for first , the baptisme of john was true baptisme , &c. but hee never demanded of those hee received , whether they were entered into church covenant , &c. answ . this wee had in substance before , and is answered ( with all the other instances in this first reason ) in our answer to the reply to the first consideration , and in other places ; and therefore in vaine here to repeat the same . and wee have observed more then once your plaine confession that the apostles constituted churches by baptisme , even such churches as they set elders in by the election of the people . reply . the second reason in substance is this , because from christ and the constant practise of the apostles we learne , that such as are called of god , received the holy ghost , beleeve in the lord , professe their faith in him with repentance and amendment of life , have a right to baptisme , and desiring it are wronged if they bee deprived thereof . answ . we grant the whole ; but as it is supposed in due order they must receive it ; so wee desire no more , for wee grant upon these common grounds , such have jus ad rem , but not jus in re , and the immediate fruition of them . reply . thirdly , by a lively faith a man hath internal communion with christ , by profession of the intire faith joyned with conformity of life in righteousnes , holinesse and fellowship of love , hee is a member of the visible congregation or flock of christ , though no set member of a free independent society : and baptisme is a seale of our admission into the flocke of christ ; not ever more , but by accident , of our receiving into a particular congregation . answ . this reason stands upon such a sense of the catholik church as cannot be found : and it was before confessed that the catholick church consisteth of all true particular churches , as the parts of it . and therefore how can a man be visibly a member of the whole , and belong to no part thereof ? secondly , we deny not but such have a right to be in the particular church , and so to baptisme and all ordinances ? but as by such profession they are not members of any particular church , so neither have they immediate right to the priviledges thereof without admittance into the same . fit matter , such are for a particular visible church that professe the intire faith , &c. but it doth not admit them actually thereunto : and your owne expression secretly implyeth as much , when you say baptisme is a seale of our admission into the church or flocke of christ ; if baptisme bee the seale of our admission , then there is an admission thereunto before baptisme : but who doth admit , and where , and when is any admitted to the church , but in particular congregations ? can any bee admitted into a church , that whole church being ignorant thereof ? but a man may professe the intire faith , and live accordingly amongst the heathen , where neither any church nor member of it take knowledge thereof ; and therefore bare profession doth not admit men , but make them fit to bee received and admitted into the visible church . your fourth reason wee have had twice before , and answered the same . reply . to our answer of the first objection ; from the instances of the centurion , lydia , the jailour , and the e●…nuch . first , if where the holy ghost is given and received , and faith professed according to gods ordinance , there none may hinder from being baptized ( scil . by such as have power to baptize them , ) then either such are members of the church , or baptisme is not a priviledge of the church ; then it is not essentiall to baptisme in the first institution that it should bee dispensed to none but members of a congregationall assembly . answ . it is freely granted , first , that baptisme is a priviledge of the church . secondly , that such as professe the faith , and have received the holy ghost , are members of the church , ( if by church ●…ee meant the church mysticall considered as visible , though not alwayes political ) thirdly , that these may receive baptisme by such as have power to baptize them ; but immediately to baptize them , none had power but by an extraordinary call of god so to doe , as hath bin formerly shewed . but it wil not hence follow , that ordinary officers have such a power , ( wanting such extraordinary call ) because the members of the church catholicke having right unto the seales ; yet the immediate fruition of them , they must have by ordinary officers in a politicall body , the onely subject according to order of all such institutions : otherwise we must admit private baptismes , if the extraordinary examples of the apostles be pressed for our patterne . reply . then the apostles in dispensing seales walked by rules of scripture and grounds common to us , and then the difficulty remaining is onely this : whether a pastour may dispense seales to such as have right to them and do orderly desire them , though hee be not yet a set member of a congregation . answ . wee grant the apostles ordinarily and generally baptized upon common grounds , but still when they did so they received them into some particular church ; and so baptized them : and in the like orderly way any pastour may doe the same . secondly , we answer , things may bee done ( sano sensu ) upon common and morall grounds , and yet may not be done by others upon the same grounds . to give one instance in stead of many : the apostles preached the gospel to gather in the elect of god and to edifie the church &c. and ministers upon the same common grounds must now preach the gospel also : yet in that the apostles on those grounds preached to all nations , this doth not warrant ministers now to do the like : so here though we baptize beleevers as they did , yet wee may not do it to all in all cases as they did . and therefore the rule holds onely when all circumstances are alike as well as the common grounds . reply . secondly , in the instance given , it is not probable that baptisme was evermore administred by the apostles or evangelists . for before the death of christ the disciples baptized , when they were neither apostles nor evangelists properly . after the death of christ , &c. if philip , ananias , and others might baptize such as were no members of particular congregations , then may ordinary pastours doe the like . answ . you mistake here in the force of our answer , as hath beene shewed in the first consideration , to which this objection and answer belong . for wee doe not make all the acts of the apostles and evangelists extraordinary , but generally orderly in the way wee professe . secondly , wee answer to the particulars ▪ ( not to wrastle with the ghosts of humane imaginations and conjectures , whether any besides the apostles baptized the . act. . ) as for philip and ananias if they baptized , did they baptize as private men , or as church officers ? if the second , what officers were they ? ordinary or extraordinary ? wee thinke it will not bee thought they were ordinary who were honoured with such extraordinary worke : but in what office soever they were , those particular actions ( in baptizing the eunuch and paul ) were done by an immediate call of god , as is evident in the story . reply . thirdly , it is very improbable that the persons baptized were in church state , or order . if they were members of the jewish church not yet dissolved , this is not to the purpose , for men have not right to baptisme , because members of the jewish church , but because disciples , and as you say , joyned together in covenant , &c. answ . wee grant , that since the visible kingdome of christ was set up in visible christian churches , the seales belong properly and ordinarily to the members of christian churches not jewish : yet wee may affirme that if in any speciall case a beleever was baptized by any that had a speciall call thereto , where there was no christian church present actually to joyne unto : yet being a member of the jewish church not yet dissolved , the case does not so much vary from the set order of christ in those times , and that is all wee intend . reply . if the eunuch , and centurion were proselytes , and of the jewish church , the sam●…ritans whom philip baptized were not so , and that any gentiles , or the jaylour were set members of a christian assembly , is very strange , &c. answ . this is fully answered before in the first consideration ; and that which is according to the rule and mind of christ , and the first , and common practise of the apostles , act. . to joyne men to the church when they baptized them , need not seeme strange . reply . in the apostles practise two things are to bee considered . first , the circumstance of the action . secondly , the substance or quality of the act. in some circumstances the baptizing of some of these might bee extraordinary , but the substance , and quality of the action was grounded upon rules perpetuall , and common to us and them . that is done in an extraordinary way , &c. answ . wee suppose amongst such circumstances you will reckon that for one , that the eunuch was baptized alone in the wildernesse , not in any visible assembly of saints . wherein ordinary pastors may not imitate that act : and this comes not farre short of what wee say : for the chiefe proof that they were not received into a particular church , lies in their absence from such an assembly : and if they might bee admitted to the catholick church without the presence of any christian ( but him that baptized them ) why not into a particular church as well ? the large discourse about the apostles extraordinary power , and doing things upon common grounds : is so oft said for substance , and answered before , that it were vaine to trouble the reader againe with the same thing . reply . secondly , an argument followes necessarily from a particular example to a generall , when the proofe of one particular to another is made by force of the similitude common to the whole kind under which those particulars are contained . now in this matter wee speake of ; no reason can bee named why wee should thinke it lawfull for the apostles to baptize such as were no set members , and the same should be unlawfull in all cases for pastors of particular congregations . answ . wee deny that the apostles did so ordinarily , and therefore your argument doth not hold ; if it bee built upon the common practise ; but if it be built upon some few speciall cases ▪ we retort the argument thus : that which the apostles did ordinarily upon common grounds , that pastors ought to doe : but ordinarily they baptized disciples , admitting them first into particular churches ▪ therefore in the third reason wee grant the conclusion of it , that the apostles did walke by ordinary rules generally . reply . fourthly , the practise of the apostles in receiving the faithfull , &c. is backed on divine precept , &c. answ . if you meane they baptized such without receiving them into some particular church , wee deny this assumption upon the grounds laid downe before . reply . fiftly , in the first consideration you prove the seales to be the priviledge of the church in ordinary dispensation by this passage of scripture , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but if the apostles baptiz●…d by extraordinary dispensation in your sense this testimony is insufficient for that purpose . answ . although the printed copy of our answer omit this proofe wholly , and also , rom. . . yet in our true cypy wee alledged , acts , . . wherein you will finde not onely this passage , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but withall that they were added to the church , and such a church as continued stedfastly in the fellowship , &c. of the apostles . likewise verse . that the conversion , and baptizing of disciples being omitted , the joyning or adding to the church is put in the stead thereof , which proofes as they are omitted wholly in the printed copy , so also you make no reply unto them . secondly , by these proofes it might easily have been seene that wee did not looke upon all the apostles acts in this case of baptisme as extraordinary , but that their first and leading examples were ordinary , and in that order wee plead for : which if it had been regarded , much labour had been saved in this dispute , which hath been spent to little purpose . and , our second reason . reply . in due order the seales belong to them to whom the grant is given , but the grant is vouchsafed to the faithfull , and their seed , forgivenesse of sinnes , &c. and the benefits of the covenant are so linked together , that where one is granted none is denyed , &c. answ . 't is true , the seales belong to all them by a remote right to whom the grant is given , ( as hath been oft said ) but not immediate : yet in the very propounding of this reason wee may observe two things that doe cut the sinewes of it . the limitation of due order , which as hath been said can no where be found but in a particular church . let any shew what order christ hath put his catholick visible church into , or where that order is to bee seene but in particular churches , by which order every one is bound to joyne to such churches , as well as to partake in the outward ordinances of gods worship , which are there onely to be found . secondly , it is granted that not onely forgivenesse of sins , but all other benefits of the covenant of grace are linked together , and are the grant sealed up in the sacrament ; and if so , is not visible conjunction with christ and his church ; with all the priviledges of the church , and ordinances of the same , part of that grant by the covenant of grace , or of the gospell ? wee suppose none would deny it , why then should not visible beleevers require , and take up this part of the grant , as well as the seale of it ? for sigillum sequitur d●…num ; let them take this gift and the seale is ready for them . and this may answer the first part of the reply about rom. . . as also all the rest which followes being things so oft repeated , and answered before , as make it tedious to all . chap. xiiii . position . that the power of excommunication is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow must bee done , though the pastors and governors , and the rest of the assembly be of another mind , and that peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . reply . this question is much mistaken , for the demand is not , whether in the congregation matters should be carried by number of votes against god , as you interpret the position , but whether the power of excommunication so lie in the body of the congregation as that sentence must proceed in externo foro , according to the vote and determination of the major part , and so in admissions of members , &c. and though they have no power against god , but for god , yet in execution of that power they may bee divided in judgement , and one part must err●… . now hence the question is moved , whether the power bee so in the people , that what the major part determine must stand . answ . if our whole answer had been attended unto , it is so cleare and full , that it could not with any shew of reason bee subject to such a mistake : to omit the first part of our answer affirmatively , wherein wee cite mr. parker as consenting with him . in the second part to the position as stated , our answer is plainely negative , that excommunication is not so seated , neither ought to bee so in any of the churches of the lord jesus . what followes is our reason grounded upon the last clause of the position , because churches ought to carry things not by number of votes against god ( as this position implies ) but by strength of rule and reason according to god , and for edification , cor. . . cor. . . now let any judge whether the position doth not imply such an absurdity so oft as things should bee carried by the major vote against the officers , and the rest having better reasons , and therefore wee are apt to think that if the learned author had been so ready to embrace any syllable that lends to dislodge these thoughts of us as leaning to separation , hee would have beleeved our plaine negation of this position , which indeed is according to our constant practise never following the major part of votes against the officers , but counting it the duty of the officers in such cases either to satisfie the consciences of the major part ( or lesser ) by the rule of the word , or to yeeld not to the vote but reasons if they bee stranger ; or to suspend the businesse , and referre to the counsell of other churches , if they cannot agree but a division arise according to the patterne , act. . reply . amongst them that hold the power of the keyes to bee given to the church , some ( as fenner , parker , i. d. ) distinguish between the power itselfe which they give to the church , and the execution which they confine to the presbytery , others give the power of the keyes with the exercise thereof to the whole body of the church ; or if in the dispensation they attribute any thing to the officers , it is but as servants of the church from whom they derive their authority , and here lies the stone at which the separation stumble , and which wee conceive to bee your judgement and practise , wherein wee required your plaine answer , but have received no satisfaction . you referre us to mr. parkers reasons to prove the power of the keyes belong to the whole church , who are of farre differing judgement from him in the point it selfe , and if your judgement and practise bee as the separation ( as wee feare ) you dissent from him and wee from you in these considerations . answ . wee are sorry to see this reverend man of god so strongly possessed with a prejudicate opinion and feare of our concurrence with the separation : ( upon what grounds it is not said , nor can wee apprehend ) that neither our flat negation of the position , nor our reference to mr. parker as concurring with him , should give him any satisfaction to the contrary . but if that bee the judgement , and practise of the separation which is here imputed unto them , viz. that the power and exercise of the keys is in the body of the church , and what the officers doe therein is but as servants of the church from whom they derive their authority ; if our profession may bee of any use to satisfie , wee doe freely , and heartily professe to the contrary : affirming that the authoritative power of transacting all things in the church , is in the hands of the officers who minister in the name and power of christ to and over the church , and that the power or liberty of the community whereby they may and ought to concurre with their guides , so long as they rule in the lord , is to bee carried in a way of obedience unto them , and when upon just cause they dissent from them , still they are to walke respectfully towards them , and wee thinke our brethren are not ignorant that mr. parker and fenner give as much to the church in excommunication , as wee have pleaded for in any of our publique writings . but seeing wee are led by this learned author from this particular question about excommunication to that beaten controversie of the power of the keyes in generall , and the first subject thereof , whereby wee are forced to declare our selves herein ; wee shall briefly gleane up some few of our scattered apprehensions , as may most concerne the case in hand . there are divers keyes that are diversly distributed to severall subjects in respect of execution , and therefore the question should have beene first stated : and what keyes are denied to the people and appropriated to the officers . and what to some officers , not to others , should have been shewed before arguments were pressed . the state of the church being mixed of an aristocracy to which belongs office , and democracy to which belongs priviledge ; hence the power of the keyes is twofold . * officiall power . fraternall . the first belonging to the guides of the church , the other to the fraternity thereof . the officiall power of the keyes is a power to act with authority in the name of christ ministerially in opening and shutting , binding and loosing , &c. in respect of which office ( while the minister acts according to the will of christ ) he is over the church in things properly ecclesiasticall , because hee stands in the roome of christ , and comes in his name , and hence in those church acts which are not proper to him , but common in some cases to the fraternitie , yet there is an office-authority upon them , which is not upon the like acts materially done by others . ex. gr . any brother may and ought to exhort and rebuke , thes . . . heb. . . titus a minister is exhorted to doe the same thing , but with all authority , titus . . some able and gifted , though not in office , may occasionally open and apply the word , yet not with an office-authority . but an officer preacheth as an ambassadour of christ , cor. . so also in admission of members , and casting out of offenders ( wherein though the fraternity have a power whether in consenting or otherwise ) yet they act obedientially in respect of their guides , declaring the rule , going before them in example , and commanding them ( if need bee ) in the name of christ to doe his pleasure . but the officers act in these things in the name and authority of him in whose roome they stand , and hence wee thinke that in case the fraternity without officers should cast out any , yet it is not altogether the same with that which may bee dispensed by the officers thereof , it being no officiall act . fraternall power ( in publike church acts ) is a joynt power of liberty or priviledge ( in some sense , & in some cases ) to open , & shut , which power is not in any one or more severally ; but in the whole joyntly , for as they have power to combine , and so to receive others into the communion , so by like reason to shut out offenders from their communion ; but thus they do fraternally , not officially : and as they have such a power of election of officers to them , so they have also a fraternall power ( due order being attended ) to shut them out ( when there is just cause ) according to the common received rule , cujus est instituere , ejusdem est & destituere . these things which might bee more fully explained and confirmed , wee have onely briefly set downe both to wash off the blot of popular government from the wayes of christ , as if all authority were taken from the ministers , or nothing left them but to dispense the seales , and in all other things to ●…it meerely as a moderator in the churches of christ , which wee utterly disclaime . and also to make way for our more cleare answer to what is objected here in the reply : wee grant therefore the first argument and the conclusion thereof thus farre , that the officiall power of the keys was not given to the whole multitude , but onely there is given to them a power to choose officers , which officers should execute the same . reply . if christ gave this power to the community , was it from the beginning of the church , or tooke it effect after the church was planted ? not the first , for then the apostles themselves should derive their power from the community , which they did not . answ . this reason is answered before ( so farre as concernes our tenent ) in the second consideration , where it is alledged , to which wee referre the reader ; neither doe wee say the officiall power is so given to the community , but such things as are here added , wee shall consider so farre as concernes us . reply . the apostles and other governours were given of christ to the church as for their end , and all their authority was given unto them for the church , as for the whole : but the authority it selfe was immediatly derived from christ , and is not in the church as the immediate subject , nor derived from the church , but from christ the king of the church . the authority of governour is given of christ for a gift to the church , but not a gift absolute . that it may reside in the power of the whole church , but for a conditionall gift communicated to the governours for the good of the whole . parker , pol. lib. . cap. . answ . concerning the power of the apostles , and extraordinary officers wee now dispute not , it was answered before ; and for the authority of other officers , wee doe not affirme that it is derived from the church , but from christ for the good of the church ; but if the question bee of the application of an office , and the power of it to such and such persons in the church , wee would demand whether christ doth this to such a pastour and teacher immediatly or mediatly : if immediatly , then their call is not ( in this ) different from apostles , which paul expresly distinguisheth gal. . . paul was an apostle , not of man , nor by man , but of god , and by jesus christ ; false teachers are of man , and by man. true pastors as thomas , iohn , &c. are of god by man , and if christ communicate this office , and the authority annexed unto it mediatly by man , not immediatly , the question is , who is the subject of this power to call , and so to apply this office in the name of christ to this or that person , john , thomas , &c. wee hold this fraternall ministeriall power ( under christ ) is in the church , and so farre wee shall defend this position , and where-ever it be else placed it will be subject to all the absurdities that are imputed to us . to the sentence of parker we answer , that the misinterpreting one word of his sentence doth pervert his whole meaning , his words are pro dono conditionali ut rectoribus communicetur , i. e. that the church might not communicate that power to officers , nor keepe it in her owne hand . or that it might bee communicated from christ by the church . and this will appeare his meaning , and it agrees with that position hee holds so strongly , that the church is the first subject of the keys . reply . after the churches were established , it tooke not effect , for it is no where found in scripture that christ first committed this power to the apostles , and after to the community ; the ministers and guides were immediately of jesus christ from whom immediately they derive their power and authority , by whom they are set over their charge , in whose name they execute their office , &c. yea pastorship is the gift of christ as well as apostleship ; and every pastor is not immediately called , but the office and order of pastors , the calling , authority and jurisdiction is immediately from christ , not from the church . answ . first , the power of the keyes ( in a right sense given to the church ) tooke effect from the beginning in christs institution , and in the frequent practice of the church , as is shewed before , and therefore this is needlesse to bee proved , that it tooke effect after . secondly , that ministers and guides were immediately from christ , ( if you meane ordinary officers ) and that every pastour is not immediately called , seemes to be a contradiction : the places , act. . . ephes . . &c. doe not prove that all officers are immedately from christ , though they bee set in the church by christ and over the church by the holy ghost , &c. this the lord can doe , and doth doe by the meanes of his church walking according to his rule and institution , and therefore you must come at last home to our tenent , ( as here you doe ) that pastorship , the office , power , jurisdiction , &c. annexed to it , is immediately from christ , viz. by his institution in the gospel : but pastors every one that receive this office , hath it from christ , but by his church calling them to the same , and in the name of christ applying it to them : and thus far we agree with you . reply . the steward is appointed of the master of the family alone , and hath all his authority from him . every embassador in the cause of his embassage doth immediately depend upon him from whom he is sent : but if the function , order and authority of pastors and teachers bee immediately from christ , then it is not received from the church as the immediate receptacle . answ . answ . first , though pastors in respect of the exercise of their function dispense the word and other mysteries of christ as from him immediately , and so are fitly compared to embassadors and stewards , yet in the call of the one and other to that work there is a plaine dissimilitude , the one being called mediately , the other immediately by their masters , and therefore in this case it proves nothing . what doth this argument conclude ? if onely that the function and order is not from the church as the first subject , we readily grant it ; if the application of the office to such a person , ( so farre as may bee done by an outward call ) it followes not at all , for the function and office may bee from christ , and the application thereof by the church . reply . thus protestant divines dispute against papists , if bishops receive their power and authority of exercising immediately from christ by mandate , mission and commission from him , then not from the pope , and so for presbyters in regard of the bishop . answ . the reason and ground of that dispute is because the pope claimes a plenitude of power from peter , whence all must ●…ee derived to all bishops , &c. bee they never so orderly chosen and ordained in their owne esteeme , and so indeed usurps the prerogative of christ the head of the church . the like usurpation i●… its degree was in the bishops over presbyters : but here the case is farre different , the church claming no such power , but onely ministeriall in the outward call of officers according to his direction , and so the application of that office unto the persons , which hath sufficient ground of scripture from christ , and therefore we grant the conclusion . viz. that they derive not their power from the people , but from christ : by meanes of the church ministerially and instrumentally applying that office to them , whereunto christ hath annexed that power . lastly the like argument may be objected against any other subject of this power you can or will suppose , even the presbytery it selfe . reply . it is usually obj●…cted that the church cannot convey what she never had : but the people may elect their pastor . whereunto the answer is direct and plaine , nothing can give that it had not formally or vertually , unlesse it give it as an instrument ministring to one that hath it , but so it may give what it never had , nor is capable of . a steward may give all the offices in his masters house as ministerially executing his masters pleasure . answ . this answer doth not satisfie , for wee cannot put off our old principles of reason , that every instrument ministring to the principall cause doth conferre vim ad effectum : and so farre , or in what sense it gives any thing to the effect in that sense , and so farre it must needs have vertually or formally the same in itselfe . if a conduit convey water ministerially from the fountaine to the house , it hath water in such a sense , as it doth concurre to the effect : and so the church cannot give the keys to the officers as an instrument of christ , but it must be granted shee received them from christ vertually to give them to the officer . secondly , for the instance ; if it bee meant of a steward giving the offices to such persons as his master hath named thereunto , and he instals them into the same , the case is not alike yet , here hee must have some power and authority so to doe so that he hath these offices vertually in his hand , but if it be his masters will , he shall choose what persons hee sees fit according to rules given him , ( which is the case here ) then hee hath this power vertually in his hand . reply . thirdly , if ecclesiasticall and spirituall power be in the multitude and community of the faithfull , the church doth not onely call , but make officers out of power and vertue received into her selfe , and then should the church have a true lordlike power in regard of her ministers . reply . answ . if there be any such that hold the church hath so the power of the keyes in her selfe , as that she may derive from her selfe authority to the officers , let such looke unto the conclusion ; as for mr. robinson , though wee doe not approve the sentence you cite out of him , yet we doubt whether you doe not goe beyond his sense & meaning : but according to our sense of this position before layd downe , neither this absurdity of lordship over the officers , nor any others that are instanced in , under this reason doe at all follow ; and they may bee as strongly urged against the presbyteries , classes , synods , catholick church , or any subject of the keyes that can be named : and the objection , viz. that god will have the church choose officers to execute the power committed to her , is so answered in the same page , as will serve us as well as you , viz. god will have her elect officers of his designment ( that is , such as the rule directs her to choose ) to doe his worke according to that power which hee hath given them , and by his direction , and then they are gods servants and not the churches , and receive that charge and function immediatly from god , and not from the people ; wee meane no otherwise then by that outward call instrumentally applying that office unto them ; and in this sense wee close with you herein : and indeed this power of electing officers doth not ever include authority over them whom they chuse , but rather willing subjection unto them , and setting them up to rule ; as when a woman chooseth a husband , she makes him her husband in a sort , but withall her head and ruler ; so when a people choose a major , &c. answ . fourthly , if the power of the keyes be given first and immediatly to the community of the faithfull , what reason can bee alleadged why in defect of officers the church might not rule , feed , bind , loose , preach , and administer sacraments ; or if any faile in office , why shee might not supply that want by her power , for the power of the keys doth containe both authority and exercise , power being given that it may bee exercised , as it is vouchsafed : but the church cannot exercise these acts of rule . ergo. answ . the reason is , because the church hath not received some of the keyes formally but onely vertually , and ( as was said out of parker ) not as a gift absolute but conditionall , that it might bee communicated to the officers . such power as the body of the church hath received formally shee may and doth exercise , as a power of choosing officers , a power of judging in censures , cor. . . and the like , the power of preaching properly so called & dispensing sacraments , &c. being acts of authority , the church hath them onely vertually , and therefore must choose officers , to whom christ her lord hath given authority in the church . a corporation that by patent from the king hath many priviledges , the power is given to the body incorporated , and so it is the first subject of it , yet many acts cannot be put forth , but by officers duely chosen : and so here . reply . for these reasons ( not to insist on any more ) wee judge the community of the faithfull , not to bee the immediate receptacle of ecclesiasticall authority , and so the power of excommunication , not to belong unto them . answ . by this conclusion it appeares that how ever the author began professedly against us as separatists in this point , yet he followes the cause against mr. parker , with whom hee seemes to be friends . secondly , the power of excommunication may belong to the church or community in respect of a fraternall power of judging , though officiall authority bee not formally given to the church but to the officers . reply . if consent of churches bee asked in this point , to omit others , the churches of scotland speake fully and expresly for us in the second booke of discip . cap. . the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions in the congregation of them that professe the truth , hath a certaine power granted of god according to which it useth a proper jurisdiction , &c. beza de presb. pag. . helv. confess . cap. . belgick , &c. answ . if consent of the learned , godly , and zealous reformers were asked , a cloud of witnesses might bee produced that hold the church the first subject of the keyes , as fulke , whitaker , parker , peter martyr , musculus and others , besides many of the ancient divines and councells , gerson and the parisian divines well known to the learned concerning quotation of the scottish discipline , the first words lay so weake a foundation as leave the building ready to fall , in these words . the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions hath a certaine power , &c. but where is the church so taken ? not in all the new testament that can be proved with any solid reason , notwithstanding all wrastling of men to find it out ; but generally for the company of the faithfull , either the universall or particular church ; and this sometime considered with her officers : and divers times as distinguished from them , as acts . . and . . . jam. . . revel . . . . . &c. but never contra , for the officers distinguished from the church or body of the congregation ; and therefore if the keyes be given to the church , and the plea of the power of the keyes to be given immediatly to the officers be in and under the name of the church , it will fall to the church of the faithfull , if the scripture may judge : indeed among the papists , and so the prelates , the clergy have long got and held possession of the name of the church , but the testament of christ will not beare this foundation , but wee will not trouble the reader farther about humane testimonies . chap. xv. position . that none are to bee admitted members but they must promise not to depart or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . reply . it is one thing abruptly to breake away when and whither they please , and forsake fellowship another thing , not to depart or remove habitation unlesse the congregation will give leave ; also it is one thing mutually to compound and agree , not to depart from each other without consent and approbation , and other to require a promise of all that be admitted into societie that they shall not depart without the churches allowance , if such a promise be required of all members to bee admitted , wee cannot discerne upon what grounds your practise is warranted . answ . wee are still inforced to cleare our answer from mistakes , for it seemes the answer left it doubtfull , whether wee doe not hold the position affirmatively , and in practise require such a promise as a part of our church covenant of all that are admitted , and therefore to cleare the case more fully wee shall first minde the reader with the true meaning of the answer , and then adde what is needfull to take away the scruples ; and first the answer saith , that wee judge it expedient and most according to rule , that brethren should not forsake fellowship , &c. but in removalls approve themselves , &c. now this is farre short of what the position affirmes ; for first , that none are to bee admitted without such a promise , includes a necessity ; the answer speakes onely of expediency and agreeablenesse to rule , not to breake off abruptly . secondly , the position affirmes the necessitie of a promise ; the answer speakes onely of the case in practise , as in many cases besides , for the watch of the church reacheth to such particular acts of which wee make no promise expresse in the entrance . thirdly , the position speakes of the churches leave , the answer acknowledgeth onely that brethren removing should approve themselves to doe that which is lawfull , and take counsell in such weighty affaires . by all which it appeares that wee doe not owne this position , in judgement nor practise , and therefore in effect our answer doth deny the same , and is negative . secondly , if the words of the answer bee not full enough : ( because wee see our brethren here runne upon it as a question if such a promise be required , and mr. rutherford and others take it up as a confessed practise ) wee doe therefore clearely and plainely deny the position and affirme that wee doe not thinke that none are to bee admitted without such a promise ; neither is there any such practise in our admissions of members to require such a promise ; wee onely count such removalls ( especially of families ) an action amongst many others whereunto the watch of the church doth extend , to prevent sinne where there is any just ground of suspition thereof , and to further the best good of such as are under our charge by counsell , prayers , &c. if any minister and people of old acquaintance and deare affection , or any other christians cleaving together in love have privatly resolved or agreed together , not to part from each others in any church , it is the most that wee have taken knowledge of , and wee thinke that hath beene very rare , but for any such publick promise , covenant , or church oath , ( as some straining things to the height have called it ) it is not , nor hath been required or practised amongst us : this being so , there needs no grounds of that which wee practise not . reply . first , you exclude all such as bee not set members from the seales , and yet hinder them from entrance into the church society , because they cannot promise continuance in the place they are resident in for the present ; here we desire to bee satisfied by the word of god by what you require it ▪ &c. answ . first , we deny not but divers may and doe forbeare to joyne because of their unsettlednesse in the place of their present abode . secondly , it may bee in some cases , some may be advised by the counsell of their private friends in a church to forbeare till they be some way setled . but that any are debarred from communion when they desire it , because they cannot promise continuance , ( unlesse other just causes hinder ) it neither suites with our judgement nor practise ; and if any should practise other wayes , wee doe not allow of the same , and therefore it 's needlesse to give you reasons of what we practise not . reply . secondly , it pertaines not to the whole congregation to take notice or bee acquainted with or judge of every particular members removall ▪ may not a servant remove from his master to another congregation , or a father bestow his childe in marriage to one of another congregation , but the whole church must be called to counsell in the matters , &c. when churches grow populous they must bee negligent or weary of such a taske , and for the present to challenge so much authority over one , another is usurpation , &c. answ . if our answer were but attended , such apprehensions of our practise of calling the whole church to counsell in every such case , and all that followes might be spared . for thus we say , wee judge it expedient , &c. that none forsake fellowship and abruptly breake off , &c. this doth not imply a necessity of calling the whole church to counsell in every plaine and easie case ; many times , and for the most part such removals are so plaine and free from suspition of abrupt breaking off or forsaking fellowship , that there is no need of counsell , as in case of servants marriages , &c. and therefore no trouble to the church : and in some removall of families also , the case is cleare , and openly carried in the knowledge of many of the church , none scruple it , and therefore at the first demand of dismission or letters of recommendations , the same are granted : but in removall of some members , and in the manner of the same , there are such difficulties and dangers as neede the prayers and counsell of the officers and whole church , ( as is confessed after ) nor doe wee say , it pertaines to the whole church to bee called to counsell and judge of every particular members removall , for they may approve themselves to the consciences of all mediately by advising with some who may satisfie the rest , if need be . reply . let it be shewed , that ever by divine right , this power was committed to the church , and we will confesse it expedient , but till then , wee thinke the church over rigid , and the members busie bodies , &c. answ . the rule of love whereby wee are bound to exhort , admonish , seeke the edification and good one of another , and that not onely in generall ( as of all christians ) but as members of so neere relation in one church body , who are bound to serve the lord with one shoulder , zeph. . ●… . and to uphold the worship of christ therein , as this doth reach to all the actions and wayes of one another , so in a speciall manner to such an action as this i●… : and we thinke this ground is sufficient to satisfie our practice as wee have declared , which may wipe off the aspersion of being rigid or busie-bodies . reply . in the multitude of counsellors is peace , but over-many counsellors oft causeth distractions , and different apprehensions breed delayes . answ . wee grant it may doe so , neither doe wee bring all cases to publike counsell , but the case may bee such as needs the publike counsell of all , and as wee have a gracious promise of the presence of christ in his churches who is the counsellour : so we confesse to his praise , that we finde the judgment of a church of saints in matters orderly carryed , and gathered up from the various gifts of wisedome , grace , and experience of many christians ( when need is ) to be a blessed priviledge of gods people to enjoy , and sanctified oft to the great good of his saints , and being neglected and slighted hath been oft followed with sad events . reply . the nature of your church-covenant inferreth not a necessity of bringing every such businesse to the church ; for you binde your selves mutually to watch one over another , &c. but this essentially tyeth not any man to a perpetuall residence in one place , for then even occasionall absence should be a breach of covenant , without consent of the church . answ . we grant , our church-covenant neither requires every businesse to come to publike counsell , nor perpetuall residence in one place : neither is it so held by us in judgement or practise . reply . you say you bind your selves to no new duties , but in the word of truth , it is not required neither directly nor by consequence , that no member of a church should remove or occasionally bee absent from his habitation before hee have acquainted the church whither he goeth , and on what occasions , &c. answ . it cannot but grieve us to see how the replyer still not content to take all things in the harshest sense , but will also winde in other matters into his discourse , which may make our practise seeme farre more rigid then it is . first , hee urges us as if wee brought all cases of remove and the occasions thereof , as marriages , &c. to the counsell of the whole church . secondly , hee would by consequence inferre the like of occasionall absence ▪ and now hee weaves in that also , as if it were practised by us to require men to acquaint the church with the place whither they goe , and the occasions of their occasionall absence , which is farre from us . reply . and if such businesse must bee determined on the lords day , &c. answ . wee deny not but the best churches through weaknesse and temptation may spend too much time in the most necessary administrations of censures or other affaires : but to possesse the world with such feares upon so little ground may argue the authors charity concerning our wisdome and christian care of the sabbath was not very great . reply . as for the covenant it selfe , &c. but if yee constraine men to meddle with things that belong not to them , and winde them up higher then god , would , and straine every thing to the pitch you seeme here to doe , a godly sober minde may well pause before hee make such a promise . answ . if the authour had not strained and aggravated things beyond our m●…aning in the answer , and our practise , this would not have come to so high a pitch to trouble a sober godly mind ▪ we are perswaded that generally sober godly minds , that have their pride and self-willednesse in any good measure mortified , doe count the yoake of christ ( according to our practise of this point ) to bee both easie and profitable ; neither doe wee require such a promise of any ( as was said ) but if any stumble at the fourth branch of the first reason from the nature of the covenant , let us a little here cleare that scruple : when wee reason from the nature of the covenant , and branch our reason into foure things , it is not to bee so taken , as if every one of those foure things were made a distinct promise in our solemne covenant , for the fourth i●… but an inference from the three former , as is easie to observe and indeed it was never made by us a part of the covenant or a distinct promise of it , either in our judgement or practise . if because we extend our watch to the removals of brethren , it be taken for granted that we require such a promise ; it will no more follow , then that we require promises in admissions in a thousand cases to which our watch also extends . reply . if any shall not middle with every businesse of this kinde , as questioning whether it doe belong to him or no , or not aske the advise of the whole societie , as knowing the most bee unfit to counsell in such a case , doth hee breake his covenant therein , and so commit a sinne in a sort like the sinne of ananias and saphira ? iudge your selves if in other cases you would not censure this to bee an high incroachment upon christian libertie , and a strict binding of mens consciences by humane constitutions . answ . to extend our watch so farre as hath been said unto these cases of removalls from a church , to prevent sinne in abrupt breaking off and forsaking fellowship , and to prevent the hurt and damage which the sheepe of christ oft fall into in their unadvised breaking out of the fold the lord hath placed them in , and to further their best good in their removalls ; whatever is thought of it , wee count it no breach of christian liberty , but a priviledge of the saints to bee under such a watch , and therefore if any shall neglect any duty that one owes to another , ( so farre as it tends necessarily to those ends ) wee may well reckon it as a neglect of our covenant ; but because it is offensive to compare this with the sinne of ananias , &c. wee intreat our reverend brethren and the christian reader to consider , that in the answer , this stands in the third thing noted in the nature of the covenant , and hath reference to the duties of the covenant in generall , and is not applyed to this particular case by us , nor well appliable in the manner here expressed . secondly , it is moderated in the answer which saith ( in some sort hee shall commit that sinne . ) if these things doe not satisfie , wee wish it expunged , or any other seeming harshnesse , rather then offence be given to any . lastly , that you may not impute unto us the infringement of christian liberty herein , wee would acquaint all men with these two things . first , that removals from one towne and church to another and from full to new plantations , are frequently practised amongst us , with consent and approbation . secondly , that wee finde in experience , that as there is in sheepe a wandring disposition , so in this large wildernesse , ( wherein the lord hath exercised his people with various temptations , by liberties , by offers of large outward accommodations , by wants and straights , by various opinions vented by satan and his instruments , &c. ) in these respects the sheepe of christ are so subject many times to outrunnings , that wee finde more then ordinary need of care and wisedome in this point of our watch in many cases ; and many that have broke loose from the counsels of their officers , friends , and of the church , have deepely smarted for it ; how said a case is it when some brainsicke master of a family , transported with a fancy , an odde opinion , will needs carry his whole family with himselfe to the griefe and hazard of his godly wife and hopefull children , &c. from all ordinances of christ to a people full of fanaticall errours ! were it christian liberty , or dangerous licenciousnesse to leave such a man to his owne counsels , and not meddle with him ? reply . may you not heare from your owne grounds , that herein you have devised an expedient or necessary rite or custome to prevent the dissolution of the body , which never came into ●…he minde of the lord jesus the saviour of his body , and in so doing ( if your exposition hold good ) you break the second commandement ; and to presse customes onely expedient for the time as standing rules necessary for all times and all persons , to put that authority into the hands of men which god never put upon them , to obliege men to meddle in the affaires of men beyond warrant , to binde consciences under so heavy a penalty as that of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound them , to debarre approved christians from the seales , because they cannot promise as setled members to abide in the society ▪ and yet charge them as men that against light refuse subjection to the gospel , this is that which wee cannot approve , which yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement , and desire to bee resolved in your practise . answ . here is a greater heape of heavy criminations gathered together and cast upon us , upon very weake grounds , upon mistakes , suspitions , and ( wee feare ) too much credulitie given to some clamorous persons , returning to england , and too little credit given to our true relations and faithfull professions : most of these have beene cleared in the former passages where wee met with them , and wee marvell how they come in so twisted together here againe ; wee shall here onely cleare our selves of the first , and referre the reader to their proper places to see our answer to the others . here it is imputed unto us that wee have devised a rite to preserve the unity and prevent the dissolutions of the body , which wee conceive is intended of this promise of not removall without leave , which promise is not required of us nor made in our church covenant , ( as wee have said ) and the ground of this imputation is also a meere mistake arising from the confounding of a second answer to the objection against our first reason , with the second reason of our practise , which are distinct and have a different scope , for whereas some might object , that this reason from the covenant , holds with such as grant such a covenant lawfull , the answer saith that some indeed question the necessitie of it : but wee hope you doe not question the lawfulnesse , and thereupon the answer first gives reasons and proofes of the lawfulnesse of it . and secondly , for the necessitie which is taken from the nature of all societies incorporate , which by a fundamentall rule , doe require of all that enter into them , and partake of the priviledges thereof , to conforme to all such lawfull rites and orders as are expedient for the well being of that society ; the contrary whereof would bee injurious to him to offer , and confusion in them to accept ; and from hence it easily followes , that a church being a body of a people injoying priviledges together , it is necessary fundamentally that they should bee joyned in some promise or covenant , which covenant ( though in civill societies it may consist in rites and orders devised by themselves for their good ) yet in the church which is the body of christ , this covenant is no other but to performe the duties required in the gospel towards god and one another , without any rites or order , devised by themselves , as wee professed in setting forth the nature of the covenant ; and this being the true scope of those words , let any judge what ground is given by us of such an imputation of devising rites , &c. neither doth the second reason in the answer give any ground of this imputation ; for though it dispute from the necessary ruine of the church , and all churches , if it were lawfull for any member when , whither and wherefore hee please to depart from the church without consent : yet there is not one syllable that gives an hint of any rite , custome or order devised by us , to prevent the same , but for the avoyding thereof wee still wholly and onely bind our selves to the rule of the word , to direct , order , and reforme all actions of this nature , and to shew unto men whether they may lawfully remove or not remove , not requiring any expresse promise to the contrary in this particular no more then in others ; and thus wee hope wee have resolved you of our practise , as you desired . to conclude this passage , give us leave without offence to say thus much . although ( through the grace of christ ) we desire humbly to submit to this part of our tryall , even to goe through evill report as well as good , yea all the reproaches and cruell mockings of the world , knowing that wee have deserved much more from the hand of that god without whose providence a tongue could not move against us ▪ yet wee cannot but account is one of our poorest afflictions to suffer in this kind , from the pens or tongues of our dearly beloved brethren , for whom wee daily pray , and to whom wee hope wee shall never bee ▪ provoked to returne any other language then savouring of love and respect . but wee must confesse wee meet with so many sore criminations , ( oft upon meere mistakes ) cast not onely upon our selves , but the truth and wayes of god , which wee professe , and that both by this learned author and some others , that wee cannot be so senselesse of the dishonour is reflected upon the truth of god herein , as wholly to bee silent , and groane out the griefe of our spirits to him that knoweth our hearts : wherefore wee humbly beseech all our godly brethren , to beare with us a little , if after all the harsh passages of this reply , such an heape of accusations as are here throwne upon us , move us to present to the reader a short view of such things as are unjustly and ungroundedly cast upon us , and which wee cannot but thinke hath drawne a black cloud over the glory of the holy discipline of christ which hee hath here set up among us . to omit the generall frame of this reply , in presenting our opinions and wayes to the people as if wee concurred generally with those of the rigid separation , and differed almost in every thing from such godly brethren as have breathed after puritie of ordinances and reformation . to omit also the frequent inserting of such termes unto our questions and arguments contrary to the true state thereof , which render every thing harsh and full of rigidnesse to the eares of the reader as have been observed by us . and omitting also divers other suppositions and objections , we shall onely desire those who have taken up evill thoughts concerning these churches and the wayes of christ wee walke in from this reply , to note these particular imputations in this short chapter , and upon what grounds they are built . as page . that wee hinder men from entrance into church society , because they cannot promise continuance in the place , and running upon this straine he saith : was it ever heard of in the church of god from the beginning thereof unto this day , that any such thing was propounded unto and required of members , to bee admitted into church fellowship ? here is a loud outcry , and who would not think but that we usually propound and require such a thing in our admissions , ( which yet is nothing so . ) but what is the ground of all this ? looke a little before and hee saith , if such a promise be required . againe ibidem saith hee , wee thinke the church is over-rigid in exacting such a condition of the members , and the members goe beyond their measure as busie bodies , and what is the ground ? it followes , if they arrogate such a power to themselves . so page next . in the word it is not commanded that no member should remove or occasionally be absent from the place of his habitation before he have acquainted the congregation whither he goeth , on what occasion , &c. to what end is this inserted if not to suggest that there is such a practise among us that a man may not occasionally be absent , &c. which is far from us ? and what is the ground see a few lines after , the church shall burthen herselfe , &c. if shee take upon her to intermeddle in all such occasions . and immediatly after , wee feare the time appointed for religious exercises should bee profaned by unseasonable disputes . but what is the ground of this feare conceived and published to the world , viz. if such businesses must bee determined on the lords day ? and that before the ordinances , &c. because it seemes robinson in case of some notorious obstinate offender , would have some censure passed to prevent pollution of an ordinance ; and is this ground sufficient ? againe in the same page ( for these things are thick sowne ) herein , saith he , you have devised an expedient or necessary rite or custome to preserve unity , &c. but if you seeke a ground it will bee found a mistake , as is shewed before , and contrary to the expresse profession of the answer , that wee promise no new duties , but onely such as the gospell requires of all saints in church order , much lesse doe wee set up new rites and customes . and as if all these particular imputations in the compasse of one leafe were two little , page next . wee have a whole catalogue gathered together from other places and this , that by laying things together the odium raised might stick the deeper : for thus the words are , but to presse customes expedient for the time as standing rules , necessary at all times and all persons ; to put authority in the hands of men which god never put upon them , and to oblige them to intermeddle ; to bind the consciences of men , and that upon so heavy a penaltie as the sinne of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound it ; to de●…arre knowne christians from the seales , because they cannot promise so abide in the church at setled members ; and yet charge them in the meane season against light to refuse subjection to the gospel . concerning all which wee doe not know any of them to be true , not approve any such thing in any , if it should be found among us . and what is the ground of all this ? truely weake enough ( as hath been shewed in our discourse ) and here it is the suspicion of the author , for thus hee adds , this is that wee cannot approve , and yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement . these things wee have thus briefly presented in one view not to dishonour the learned and reverend author , whose memory wee honour ; two things we charitably take notice of , to remove over hard thoughts of him : first , wee consider his spirit might bee over grieved and provoked to this harshnesse by the withdrawings of many christians from the ordinances of god because dispensed according to the corrupt liturgy , in which cause he stood too farre ingaged , and supposing new-england wayes the cause of it , he was the more sharpe . secondly , wee consider that this reply was not intended by him to be published to the world , but to be sent unto us , and therefore he is in our hearts the lesse blamable . but seeing these things are now published , and the harshnesse thereof may do much hurt , wee were pressed to cleare our selves , wherein if any thing reflect upon the author or publishers , wee cannot avoyd it . neither doe wee write thus as if wee would wholly justifie our selves and all the particular miscarriages that happily at one time or other , in some church or other may have happened ; we have much cause to humble our selves before our god and abase our selves to the dust before men , for all the weakenesses , sinnes , errors and miscarriages that have beene found among us , in one kind and another . onely this wee may professe before the lord and his people , that in the maine scope of our hearts and indeavours of our lives wee have sought after such a forme of worship , and frame of discipline , as we could conceive by the word of god and the helpe of the best reformers to bee according to the will of christ , not allowing our selves in any evill discovered unto us , but bewayling our great defects in all . reply . and here wee crave leave to put you in mind of what you have considered already ▪ that the church and every member have entered into covenant , to take god for their god , &c. but wee never finde that they were called to give account of the worke of grace wrought in their soules , or that the whole congregation were to bee judge thereof . you stand here all this day ( saith moses ) before the lord your god , &c. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god. all that were borne in the wildernesse joshua circumcised , but it is uncredible to thinke there was none that did not give good testimony of the worke of grace , &c. because it is a principall thing , especially in the builders of the church , to know their materials , and because the reverend and learned author steps somewhat out of his way to call us to give answer in this controversie of such great weight , ( especially in this present turne of times ) wee shall therefore gladly accept of this occasion to declare our selves , with as much brevity as we may , to the two branches of the question . qu. first , whether the members of the church are called to give an account of the worke of grace at there admission thereunto . answ . secondly , whether the whole church is to be judge hereof . whether the members of the church be called , &c. for answer to which wee shall expresse our selves in these particulars , to prevent mistakes . first , that the question is not of what may keepe a church already constituted from being accounted no church , but of what is to bee required of such as joyne unto a church , for a church may bee a true church , and yet be very corrupt , ( as is generally observed by protestant writers , both out of the examples of some churches in the new testament , and that of the old in the great apostasie thereof ) wee thinke ( in this same ) doctor fields expressions may be safely received : some professe christ ( saith hee ) but not wholly and intirely , as heretiques : some professe the whole saving truth , but not in unity , as schismatiques : some professe it in unty , but not in sincerity , as prophaine persons and hypocrites : some in unity and sincerity : all these are partakers of the heavenly calling by profession of the truth , and consequently in some degree and sort the church &c. but ( wee thinke that ( this is no argument , that either heretiques , schismatickes , prophane persons , or hypocrites ( if convictively discovered that such are meet matter to be joyned to a church . secondly , when a worke of grace is required and desired of those who are to joyne to a church , the meaning is not as if wee allowed none to ●…ee of the church , but reall saints , and such as give demonstrative evidence of being members of the invisible church ; for we professe ( according to the scripture and generall doctrine of all reformed churches ( what ever their practise bee ) that it is not reall , but visible faith , not the inward being , but the outward profession of faith , ( whence men are called visible saints ) that constitutes a visible church , which faith so professed is called visible , not in the judgement of certainty , from such infallible signes of it , as may demonstrate the hidden being of it within ; but in the judgement of charity which hopes the best . ( ●… cor. ) in the weakest christian and meanest profession , even when it sometimes feares the worst , and is not able at the present , to convince the contrary . thirdly this judgment of charity ( concerning the truth of anothers profession , or that which is called the worke of grace ) is to be regulated by the word , which christ hath left as a compleat rule , not onely of faith but also of love , and charity to guide both in their acts unto their ends : and hence large professions and long relations of the worke of grace ( though full of exceeding glory , when humbly and prudently made ) wee exact not rigorously and necessarily of all , because the rule of charity directs us not so to judge ; because many christians may bee drawne to christ , and have a seed of faith , yet may sometimes not know it , sometimes remember not the working of it , sometimes ( through bashfulnesse , feare , want of parts , nor not trained up under a knowing ministery ) not be able to professe it so fully and clearely ; hence also to keepe out others from communion out of groundlesse feares , that all their profession might bee in hypocrisie , wee allow not , because no man in his charity is to bee ruled by his feares , but by the word ; hence also to account any unfit for the church , because their hearts cannot close with them , or because they like not their spirits , speake not with favour or any such like principles , and yet can give no rule or convicting argument from the word , why thus they doe , we thinke is rigour , not charity regulated by the word ; for humane charity doth not make gods church , but such persons which from god according to the rule of gods charity , is to receive , and therefore the rule is to be attended here : it is necessary to looke for a ground of certainty to faith , but not for charity , which cannot bee infallibly certaine of anothers estate , and therefore upon a hopefull supposition that the premises their profession is true , hopefully onely makes the conclusion . the question ●…eing brought to this narrow , it will here lye , viz. first , whether profession of the worke of grace , and faith be not required of those that enter into the church . secondly , with what profession of the worke of grace , charity ( according to a rule ) is to rest satisfied . the first wee thinke is writ with the beames of the sunne , for it is evident , that neither the lord in the old testament , exod. . or in the new testament , acts . and in other like scriptures , did call for a profession of the doctrine of faith onely , but especially of the worke of faith ; for when the lord promised to be a god to his people , exd. . deut. . it was not with this condition ▪ if they did beleeve his word to bee true , &c. but if they will heare his voyce , and keepe his covenant , which ( in a prepared people ) is a manifestation of a worke of grace . so when the apostles were required to goe preach to all nations , and baptize them and teach them , looke as they did require such a faith as was saving , ( he that beleeveth shall bee saved ) so upon the profession thereof they did receive them , as also appeares , acts . . ( which therefore could not bee of the doctrine of faith , for that the devils doe , and tremble , and profane men of much knowledge , may doe , and yet unfit to bee received , and therefore it was of the worke of faith , and therefore act. . . philip not onely requires faith , but a beleeving with all the hear●… of the eunuch , and upon such a profession baptized him : and hence the churches erected by the apostles at corinth , colosse , ephesus , &c. are called saints , and sanctified of god in christ jesus , &c. how ! was it because debito and de jure onely , they should be so ? then all who heare the gospell ( though they reject it ) might bee called a church , for de jure , they ought to be so ; or was it because there were some that were truely such amongst them , and so in concreto , are called a church and body of christ ? not onely so , for there may be some visible churches of visible saints , and yet none among them of the invisible church , unlesse any will thinke , that to bee of the church invisible is essentiall to the beeing and title of a visible church : and therefore it was from their profession of saving faith which they maintained being a church , as it was required to the gathering into a church : john baptist also , ( though hee baptized none into a new church , ( and therefore might require the lesse ) yet as he really promised remission of sinnes by the messiah , so hee required that very faith and repentance which might make them partakers of this heavenly benefit ; and therefore , if what hee required , they manifested by their profession , and confession of sinnes , it was not onely to beleeve the doctrine of faith , but a saving worke of faith which they held forth . and therefore it is not an outward profession of faith , according to a creed which is required , for then a papist is fit matter for a church , nor willingnesse to heare the word and receive the sacraments , for then heapes of prophane persons are to bee received into the church , but it 's profession of a worke , and saving worke of grace , which being ever required in the purest times , is no novell invention of some more rigidly inclined in these things . to the second , with what profession ( charity , according to rule ) is to rest satisfied ? wee answer , that there is a breadth in charity according to rule and profession of faith being but testimonium humanum , or a mans owne testimony concerning himselfe , therefore as in the most eminent profession , potest s●…besse salsum , there may bee hypocrisie latent , ( it being no divine testimony ) so in the weakest profession of the worke of faith , potest subesse verum , idest , there may be truth in the bottome : hence ( man leaving all secrets to god ) the worke of grace wherewith charity is to be satisfied , is one of these two . first , either with that which is onely verball , and appeares to be false by conviction from the word : or secondly , with that which appeares to bee reall , which however it may bee false , yet it is beyond the power of man to convince ( by a rule ) that so it is . we confesse wee are fearefull as of opening the doore too wide , so of shutting the doores upon any whom god would have us to receive in , but for what yet wee see or read , from the arguments here alledged in this author , or the writings of others godly learned : wee thinke that church charity is not to rest satisfied with the first , but with the latter ; for let the profession of the worke of faith bee never so short , or so weake , let it be by their owne immediate relation or by question , yet if it may but appeare to a regulated charity so as to hope that is is reall , it is to rest satisfied then , till god make discovery to the contrary ; wee intend not to heape up arguments , nor answer scruples but these foure things seem●… to ●…vince as much . that the apostles in the . converted acts ●… ▪ as they were very ready to receive them to the fold of christ , and therefore in one day immediatly received so many thousands ( which could not bee by large profession of every one ) so also they attended to the truth of that profession , and therfore it was not bare profession of faith , but ( as it is set downe for our patterne ) it was such a profession as was evidently joyned with humiliation , pricking at the heart , mourning , and crying out before the apostles what shall wee doe to be saved , gladly receiving the word , which are reall testimonies of some reall change from what they were but a little before , and upon this ground the apostles received them . the apostles charge to timothy , tim. . . from such as have a forme of godlinesse and deny the power of it , turne away ; if bar●… profession were sufficient , why should timothy turne from them ? ( but rather receive them who had a forme of profession . ) and if it was in his power to avoyd them , why should he not reject them , and that not onely from private but church communion also , supposing them such as not one●…y had a forme , but might be by a rule convinced thereof ? lying and apparent untruth cannot make a man ▪ fit matter for a church , and therefore cannot bee a ground for charity to rest on , that so he is : but verball profession , which appeares not to bee reall but false , is palpable lying , and indeed more fit to destroy the church then to make the church . hence sanctius in zach. . observes that the greatest enemies of the church are such , qui cum fidem retineant sanctitatem abjecerunt . if bare profession of faith is a sufficient ground to receive men into the church , then an excommunicate person cast out in one houre should bee immediatly received in againe , if hee will but renew his generall profession of faith ; nay then the indians in maryland , who will put on and put off this profession , as their ghostly fathers the popish priests will bestow or withhold garments and shirts upon them ; should in charitie bee received into the church . but if it should bee asked how charity may know the reality of this profession , we answer ; so long as the rule bee attended wee leave every one to the wisedome of christ , to make application thereof , onely this we doe add in generall for more full satisfaction . such a faith professed with the mouth , which is confirmed by an innocent godly conversation in the life , so as not to live in commission of any knowne sinne , or omission of any knowne duty , wee say this conversation makes faith appeare reall , james . . rev. . . wee conceive more is required to make a man appeare a fit member of a church , then of a common-wealth , to bee onely bonus civis , and bare civility is sufficient for this latter , but not for the former , and therefore such a profession of faith is needfull , as is confirmed by a not onely a civill , but a godly life . such a faith as is joyned with evident repentance , and sorrow , and mourning for sinne ( although there bee no experience alwayes of such a holy life antecedently seene ) for thus it was act. . , . for the riches of christs grace is such as not onely to receive experienced christians into his family and house , but also the weakest and poorest ( who may stand in most need of christs ordinances ) and that as soone as ever they seeme to bee brought in ; and therefore experience of a blamelesse life is not alwayes necessary for admission into the church : some think indeed that the apostles received in the first converts , ( act. . . ) so soone , because they had an extraordinary spirit of discerning , but if they had so : yet they did not receive them in here according to that , for they received divers hypocrites in , as ananias and sapphira , &c. and if all other of their acts in this chapter were exemplary , why should this onely bee thought to be otherwise and extraordinary ? when there is full and sufficient testimony from others of their faith and piety , although their humiliation , faith and conversation bee not so well knowne , for wee see the church received paul , when barnabas had declared what god had done for him ; and if it may bee just to condemne another by the testimony of two faithfull witnesses , it may not bee unchristian to receive an other into the fold of christ ( much more readily ) upon the testimony of able and faithfull christians , especially then when they be not able openly , and publiquely ro speake so fully for themselves , and thus much for answer to the first question question , whether this profession is to bee judged by the church . answer , . the faithfull as they did at first combine into a church , so it is their duty to receive others to themselves , as the church did , acts . , . encouraged by barnabas and the apostles , and as the apostle commands , rom. . . which although it was of fellow-members into their affections , yet the proportion holds strong for receiving commers into the church . joh. ep. . , , . if they bee to receive them , they must by some meanes know them , to bee such as they may comfortably receive into their affections , a little leaven leavening the whole lumpe . cor. . the officers of the church , ( who are first privately to examine them ) and prepare them for admission ) are to shew the church the rule on which the church is to receive them , and themselves are ready to admit them . act. . . can any forbid water , &c. this rule was best seene by that publike profession before the whole church , and if no just exception bee made ( as none should bee without conviction ) they are to be admitted by the officers with the consent of the members hereunto , for if publike profession is needfull at least before the church , though not the world alway ( as didoclavius observes ) to the entrance into the covenant and church by baptisme ; wee see no reason , but persons formerly baptized , and entering anew into the church , but they should openly professe their faith againe : the visible church being built upon this rocke , matth. . , . viz. profession of the faith of christ ; and lastly , if there should be no necessity for such a profession , yet if this bee desired of the people of god , for the increase of their owne joy to see god glorified , and christs name professed , and his vertues held forth , and for the increase of their love to those that joyne with them , why should it not be done before saints , which should bee done before persecutors ? pet. . . what is now said , we thinke sufficient to undermine what is opposed herein by others , and may easily give answer to the three arguments of the learned authour●… , from the example of the church of israel , john baptist and the apostles , and so cleare up our practise , and judgement to the world from the aspersion of our rigidum examen for which we are by some condemned , but for further clearing , we shall answer to the particulars . now to your reasons more particularly against this from the old testament , and the manner of entring and renewing covenant then . answ . wee answer , first , when as you say , they professing the covenant promised to take god for their god , to keepe the words of the covenant and doe them , to seek the lord with all their hearts , to walke before him in truth and uprightnes , this implyeth a profession of a worke of grace . secondly , they did not immediately enter into covenant , but the lord was long before preparing them for it , for they were humbled much in egypt , in so much as their sighings came up to god , exod. . , , . they had seene the glory of god for their good against pharaoh , and all that land , by many miracles , they had gods visible presence in the cloud ; were instructed by moses concerning the covenant of grace made with them in abraham ; they were mightily delivered at the red sea , so that they beleeved moses and feared the lord and sang his praise , exod. . . psalme . . they were also instructed againe concerning the covenant , and were to sanctifie themselves three dayes legally , ( which was for spirituall ends , and of spirituall use , exod. . . ) and thus being prepared as fit matter for covenant , they then entered thereinto . and they were all of them ( for ought we know ) thus externally and ecclesiastically holy , though many were internally stiffe-necked , blind and prophane . and for our parts we desire no more then such a preparation in some worke of grace , if appearing ( though not indeed ) reall as may make way for church covenant , among a people now as we see was then . reply . when john baptist began to preach the gospell , and gather a new people for christ , he admitted none but upon confession of their sinnes , but we read of no question that hee put forth to them to discover the worke of grace in their soules , or repelled any upon that pretence that voluntarily submitted themselves . answ . though the scripture record such things very briefly , ( else the world would not have contained the bookes that must have beene written , as john speaketh , ) yet he that advisedly considers the case , may see the profession of a work of grace in all that were received by john to his baptisme . first , john was sent with the spirit and power of elias , to turne the hearts of the fathers , &c. to cast down every high hill , &c. secondly , his baptisme is called the baptisme of repentance , for the remission of sinnes , mark. . . thirdly , confession of sins is ever put for true repentance , when there is a promise of pardon made to it , prov. . ●… . john . . and therefore when he requires confession of sins , was it without remorse or sorrow for it ? was it not with profession of faith in the messiah , which he pointed unto , joh. . . and required with repentance , act. . . fourthly , did not hee fall upon the pharisees with dreadfull thundering of gods judgements , for comming to his baptisme without conversion of heart , and fruits meet for repentance ? mat. . . and this luke saith , hee preached to the multitude , luke . . and whether any were received that embraced not that doctrine , and shewed the same in their confession , viz. that their hearts were humbled , and that the renounced their high thoughts of their priviledges of the law , &c. and professed amendment & fruits meet for the same , it will be hard for any to prove : and thus much is evident : on the contrary that pharesees & lawyers distinguished from the people and publicans rejected the counsell of god in not being baptized of him , and what counsell but that wholesome doctrine of john , luke . , ? lay all these together , and let any whose thoughts are not prepossessed with prejudices , say , whether this confession was not such a profession of faith and repentance , which a discerning charity ought to take for a worke of grace . reply . it appeares many wayes that when the apostles planted churches , they made a covenant betweene god and the people whom they received . but they received men upon the profession of faith , and promise of amendment of life , without strict inquiry what worke of grace was wrought in the soule , so in after ages , &c. now the profession at first required of all that were received to baptisme , was that they beleeved in the father , sonne and holy ghost . this was the confession of the en●…uch , when he was baptized : i beleeve that jesus christ is the son of god. answ . wee cannot but observe how still the evidence of the truth of what wee proved in the third and fourth positions , breakes out at every turne , when the heat of that disputation doth not hinder , for if the apostles planted churches and made a covenant betweene god and the people when they baptized them , as the proofes for this act. . ▪ and . . and . , , . alledged in the margent shew , then still it appeares they admitted men into planted churches when they baptized them , and the refore the apostles ordinary and first leading practise and examples are for those position , not against them . you grant here that acts . and . and . there was a profession of faith and promise of amendment of life , and so wee must suppose though not expressed , for how else could the apostles distinguish such as gladly received the word , from the mockers and others ? now let us consider what kinde of profession this must bee by the story it selfe . the apostle peter in his doctrine presseth three things . . conversion or repentance for their sinnes ▪ . faith in christ in those words , bee baptized in the name of the lord jesus christ , verse . . with many other words he exhorted them , saying , save your selves from this untoward generation , that is , this was the scope of and substance of his exhortation , which includes a gathering themselves to the church . now the text saith , in respect of the first , that they were pricked to the heart ▪ and cryed out men , and brethren what shall wee doe ? . they gladly received the word , that is of faith in christ , and the duty of obedience to the gospell , and how did all this appeare , but by their profession ? and what kinde of confession can any man think ▪ such soules would make , but a broken hearted gracious confession , which to any discerning charity must be taken to argue a worke of grace ? so that the very character given of them by the holy ghost , in so briefe an history , doth cleerely evince what we contend for . consider also the story , acts . and first , not to passe over what is said of simon magus , of whom it is said , hee beleeved , was baptized , continued with philip , and wondered , so that no doubt they took him for a true beleever , but when peter discovered his falsnesse , see what hee saith , verse . thou b●…st no part nor lot in this matter , and the reason is , for thy heart is not right in the sight of god. let any here consider , that if hee had no part nor lot in christ and baptisme , &c. because not right , whether the apostle peter or the church would have received him , if such had been discovered before . and for the eunuch , philip requiring his profession of faith , if thou beleevest with all thy heart , looked for a sound worke of grace , and though it was delivered in those words which are the fundamentall truth , that jesus is the sonne of god , yet it includes true faith in him for salvation : as we see our saviour christ takes that confession of peter for true faith , flesh and blood have not revealed th●… to thee , but my father : and promised to build the church on this rocke , matth. . yea it includes subjection unto him as the sonne of god , the prophet and king of his church , and this is no rare , but a common thing in the new testament , by one fundamentall truth , beleeved and confessed , to include true faith and profession of the whole truth that suites with that foundation , as rom. . . so expounded , verse , . as being more then historicall faith , so john ●… . , . and . . the like characters of a penitent and gracious carriage and confession may be observed , act. . , , . and seeing you have given us this occasion to lay downe some grounds of our practise from the first patternes , we shall add a word or two to take away the conceit of novelty , which is imputed to us in this point as much as in any thing else . tertullian saith in his booke of prescriptions , wee admit no man to any disputation about divine things , unlesse hee first have shewed us of whom he received the faith and became a christian ; and secondly , whether hee admit and hold the generall principles , wherein all christians doe and ever did agree , otherwise proscribing against him as an alien from the common-wealth of israel . and if in those times they were so strict in admitting men to disputations , no doubt much more in receiving men to church communion . but if this seeme not full enough , take another : in the churches of old , there were catechumeni , instructed for enterance into the church by baptisme , with whom they tooke much paines in sanctifying them , before ; by fasting and prayer , and often preaching to them . and for their admission , there were foure things in use among them , . nominis professio , . scrutinium , . abrenuntiatio , . fidei professio . their scrutinium which they call examen competentium , or the examination of such as were competent , or fitting for admission , this examen was very strict as is observed out of alcuinus , by learned chamier , fiant scrutinia , ut explorentur saepius , an post renuntiationum satanae , sacra verba datae fidei radicitus corde defixerint , i. e. let examinations be made , that if oft may bee tryed , whether they have deeply fixed in the heart the sacred words of their professed faith . and what ever any may thinke of the strictnesse of that their discipline , in this point chamier gives a large testimony , by way of approbation of the same , whose words upon it are these , certe nemo it ●…are potest , seriam in tam sanctis rebus diligentiam , ne quantum fieri poterit lateant simones , &c. i. certainely no man can disallow such serious diligence , to prevent pro●…anation of sacred things , lest ( so farre as it is possible ) such as simon magus may lye hid : and saith hee , the apostles went before in their examples , for philip , acts . being demanded of the eunuch , what hinders mee that i may not bee baptized ? hee answereth not simply thou mayst , but with this supposition added , if thou beleevest with thy whole heart . now this profession of their faith was either by reciting the creed in an eminent place before all the people , and that praeclarâ fiduciâ , with full affiance , as hee observes out of clement and augustine , or else respondendo interroganti sacerdoti per singula in subsidium forte pudoris aut memoriae , i. e. by answering to the minister propounding questions , concerning their faith for helpe of their bashfulnesse , or want of memory . also beza in his epist . . commending much the severity and zeale of former pastors and churches in this kind , and bemoaning the negligence of such as followed , from whence hee saith it is , that the church without a miracle could not rise out of its filth , he concludes thus , itaque frustra disputabitur tum voce tum scriptis , nisi conversione cordium & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 initium instaurationis sum●…tu●… . reverend mr. hildersam in his treatise of the doctrine of the lords supper , to that question , whether the people that come to the lords table , bee bound to make knowne their knowledge and spirituall estate to their pastor . answers thus , yes verily , for seeing , matth. . . acts . . god required of them , that ( being of yeares of discretion ) were to bee baptized , that they should make knowne to the congregation or their minister their , faith and repentance , hee doth every whit as much require this of them that are to come to the lords supper . whereby we see , . that his judgement was that , act. . and mat. . the people did make known their spirituall estate to the congregation or minister , when they professed faith and repentance : and secondly , that the same ought now so to bee . lastly , we may appeale herein to the consciences of very many godly ministers , in our deare england , whether they groane not under the mixture of the precious with the vile , in the ordinances of christ , and would not gladly have it otherwise , which cannot bee without such a way of admissions into the church as we plead for , or else in constituted ( but corrupted ) churches , by casting out such as after admonitions appeare impenitent in sin , by the severity of discipline . and this was evident by the qualifications of persons to be received to the lords table , voted at first by the present reverend assembly , and presented in their directory to the parliament , if wee bee not mis-informed : whose words are these , none are to bee admitted thereto ( meaning the lord suppers ) but such as being baptized are found upon carefull examination by the minister , before the other church-officers , to have a competent measure of knowledge and ability to examine themselves , and professe their willingnesse to submit themselves to all the ordinances of christ , and are of approved conversation according to christ : the ignorant and scandalous are not to bee admitted , nor those of another congregation , unlesse they have sufficient testimony or be very well knowne . if it bee objected , that some of these instances concerne unbaptized persons onely , which is not our case ; answ . . multitude of baptized persons in these dayes are as ignorant and prophane as some unbaptized ; and therefore as apt to pollute gods ordinances : . chamiers reason , why unbaptized persons were to go under such strict examination , holds good in our case . . such profession of faith was required by john and the apostles of those that were church members before . reply . the creed is honored by the ancients with glorious titles , as the rule of faith , &c. by which they understood that rule of faith given by christ , when hee was about to ascend , and commanded his disciples , saying , goe teach al nations . in after times some articles were added for explanation , to meet with the heresies of those times , but for substance , the church never required other acknowledgement , &c. answ . if you meane that which is called the apostles creed , it is justly doubted whether it bee so ancient , however , the times which followed the scripture patterns , are both obscure to us , and no infallible pattern , yet many churches used great strictnesse , as is shewed , in receiving and restoring fallen members , and if afterward heresies gave just occasion to require further professions of the doctrine of faith , and to add more articles for explanation , why may not the churches require a more explicate confession of the work of faith and repentance , the formality and meere outside profession of so many civilists , formalists , and atheists requiring the same ? reply . if you put man to declare that worke of grace ▪ god hath wrought in this or that way , which perhaps is not determined by the word of grace , at least not agreed upon amongst your selves , wee beseech you to consider by what authority you doe it , and upon what ground you stand . answ . this is but upon a supposition , if so &c. which is contrary to our judgement , and professed practise to limit the spirit of grace in the workings of it . if any have so done , ( as it may bee in the times of opinions prevailing among us ) wee doe not owne it , but disapprove the same . it is enough for us to see any have some way , or by some meanes or other beene humbled for sinne , brought home to christ by faith , or have any breathings of the spirit of christ , with a life answerable to the faith of christ . chap. xvi . position . that a minister is so a minister of a particular congregation , that if they dislike him or leave him unjustly , hee ceaseth to be a minister . reply . the question is of ministers unjustly forsaken or driven from the church , and your answer is for most part of ministers , set aside or deprived by their owne default : wee never purposed to speake one word for an unworthy minister , whom christ hath put out of office , and therefore your labour to prove that such justly rejected by the the church , are no longer ministers , might well have beene saved . answ . the ground of this position being about the nature of a ministers office ; whether it consist in his office , relation to the flocke of a particular church : the former part of our answer was not in vaine , nor the grounds impertinent , and wee accept your grant of it , that a minister justly rejected by his church is no longer a minister : then wee inferre that there is no indelible character in the office , but that his ministery stands in relation to a particular flocke , not to the catholike church , for then a particular church could not dissolve his office , and therefore it will follow , that ( if hee bee found worthy after ) upon repentance to bee called to another church , hee must bee new elected and ordained to his office , being no minister upon his just deposing . reply . but wee will examine your conclusions upon which you build the sentence which you passe against them ; first it is certaine , &c. answ . what is said to the first is spoken before , and we will not repeat things in vaine . reply . secondly , the power of feeding , which the minister hath , is neither confined to one society onely , nor nextly derived to him from christ by the church . the office and authority of a pastour is immediately from christ , the deputation of the person which christ hath designed is from the church ministerially , but neither vertually nor formally . answ . these things about the call of a minister by the church were also spoken to before , when wee spake of the power of the keys , and the first subject thereof , and therefore the assertion being granted , these things might well be spared , but what we finde here more then in the other place , we shall consider . the power of the church in electing her officers is so cleare in the scripture , and so confessed a truth by the godly learned , that it cannot bee denyed , yet here seeme to be given so many restrictions in the case , that they much abate and weaken this great and precious liberty and power given by the lord. . that the power and office of a pastor is immediately from christ by his institution is granted , but the question is , how this man comes to have this office applyed to him ; if immediately , then hee is in this an apostle , if mediately , it is by the church , or else shew by whom . . that the church choose ministerially , and ought to choose whom christ hath described in his word , and fitted with gifts , and so farre designed by christ wee grant , but what if there bee twenty such ? which of them doth christ designe , but whom the church freely choose ? and therefore that is no diminution of their power , that they must choose ministerially , and whom christ so designes . the case is alike in all other ordinances dispensed , examination is immediately from christ , by his institution , the person to be censured is designed or described by christ , a notorious or obstinate sinner : the church passe this sentence onely ministerially , and yet puts forth a great power of the lord jesus christ , in applying the sentence to this or that person : and so here : and therefore it is strange to us , that any should say they depute this officer neither vertually nor formally , when as the act which they put forth , ( which is the outward call of the officer ) must needs come from a power formally in the church to doe the same , as well as when the church or officers censure an offender , &c. answ . reply . the consent of the people is requisite in the election of pastors and teachers , we grant , the direction of the elders going before , or along with them , acts . peter declared what an one should be taken , &c. acts. . deacons were chosen by the consent of the church , &c. but in this election the people did first choose , when most commonly the apostles instructed the people , and went before them in the electon , and they consented . act. . . the apostles by consent choose , &c. this restriction of the peoples power to an after consent , at least ordinarily , will not hold : if the evident light of acts . could not be denyed , and the other places were more obscure , why should not that place with its light cleare the rest ? but that in act. . is as evident , peter proves the need of such a choice to be made , shews it must bee one that had so long conversed with christ , to witnesse such things , and further hee doth not lead them , there might be twenty such , but they choose two , as a preparative act to apostleship , vers . . and who were they , but such as they speake unto , viz. the disciples , vers . . whom he cals men and brethren , vers . . so act. . . lifting up of hands is the signe of election , not of an after consent . lastly , by this doctrine how shall the church come by officers , when shee hath none to goe before her in choosing for her ? must shee loose her right , or take whom others will choose for her , and impose upon her ? reply . in the primitive times , after the apostles , one church might elect a pastor for another , &c. answ . if by way of counsell one church shall propound and advise another to choose such , ( leaving them free to take or refuse ) this is lawfull in case , but otherwise it is a plaine usurpation and we must leave scripture rules and patterns to justifie it . wee grant in a safe sense there may be communis electio , whereby a fit man is propounded by churches or ministers to be chosen by another people , and thus the philadelphians might elect a fit pastor for the church at antioch , ( as ignatius exhots ) with sundry like instances in the first times after the apostles , and this wee deny not may lawfully bee now . but this is nothing to that electio singularis , whereby a people choose one to be their minister , of which we speake , for it is evident from the testimony of cyprian oft alledged , that it is in the power of the people to choose worthy ministers , and reject the unworthy ; and ambrose thinkes that he is worthily thought to bee elected divin●… judicio , whom all the people desire . ambros . lib. . ep. . it is very true , that as the times grew worse , the elections were oft disturbed , sometimes by the clergy choosing without the people , ( of which athanasius complaines ) sometimes by the peoples carrying it tumultuously : sometime the emperors interposing . but this and like corruptions cannot forfeit the liberty of the church which christ hath given it , and therefore hee that was no great friend to the peoples liberties , yet ingenuously saith that although the people is bellua multorum capitum , and most apt to be tumultuous , yet this is not inn●…ted to a beleeving people , qui non minus nunc quam oli●… gravis esset in electionibus , as publicae utilitatis studiosissima , spalta . de rep. eccles . lib. . cap. . reply . if here it be questioned , whether your election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a minister , wee answer , first , a thing is essentiall two wayes , either as absolutely necessary , so as the thing can have no existence without it ; or necessary to the integrity of a thing , so that it is maymed ●…i bout it . againe the people be either few in number , and simple , unable to judge of the sufficiency of a minister , or they be more in number , increased in wisedome , sound in faith , and able to discerne of things that differ . in the first sense the election of the people is not necessary or essentiall , in the second , his calling in that respect is maymed . answ . it is to bee noted , that here wee dispute of the outward calling of church-officers ; now the very essence of any outward calling , doth lye in the right and power of them that elect . if all the countries of england should elect or call a lord major for london , bee they never so many and wise , it is a meere nullity , and why ? because the right of election is not in them , but if the citizens in whom the right lyes , doe elect ( though weakly ) hee hath the true essence of the call : if others electing a major the city will receive him , submit to him , and so give their consent , hee may bee said to have the substance of that call , though not an orderly and lawfull election , and so maymed : so it is here . secondly , if in our election of the people ( being the scripture way of election , ) the proper right and power bee seated by christ in the church , unto whom they are to minister , then it must needs follow , that the very essence of a ministers call stands in their election , or at least in their after consent and subjection to his ministery , in which case wee grant though the calling be maymed , yet it hath the substance of a true calling . but if the people will not receive such as are imposed upon them , hee hath no call at all , but usurpes the same , and it is a meer nullity . and therefore it concernes churches the more to consider , what they doe in receiving and submitting to such unworthy ministers , as are oft imposed upon them ; but if the right and power of electing ministers bee in any other persons , let it be shewed from the scriptures , for we are not much moved in such cases with the corrupt customes of after-times . and this also shewes what kinde of call such men have that are ordained by prelates at large without any election at all , if they be ministers to the catholike church , then the catholike church is bound to receive them , and submit to their office , but no part of the catholike church , and therefore not the whole is bound to submit to them , and therefore indeed they have no office nor calling as pastors or teachers , except it can be proved they be evangelists , apostles or prophets . reply . if the people be few and simple , they stand in ●●re need of guidance from their owne elders and other churches ; if many and full of wisdome , their liberty to choose is the greater , and the greater wrong to bee deprived of it . the practise of the apostles and primitive churches shew this for many ages , sometime men were propounded to the church to be chosen , sometimes the chiefe left wholly to them . answ . what is all this to the purpose , what light or derection a church need to receive ? the essence of a ministers call lyes not in the propounding or advising of any to elect him , but in the election of such as have the true right so to doe , which is still in the church , though few and weake , if a true church , and yet you produce not one scripture example of any officer propounded by the apostles , or elders to the church to be chosen by them , much lesse limiting the church to consent thereto , if they had nothing against him . reply . in reason this is evident , for the childs consent is required in marriage , but the more able he is to choose for himselfe , the more liberty may parents grant , the lesse able the more watchfull must they be . reply . this similitude utterly faileth in two essentiall things , that concerne the case for which it is applyed . . because a childe is under the authority of the parents , whose right is such that a childe cannot lawfully choose without them . but there is no church or others have such a right and authority over any church in their choice of officers . . whatsoever the power of parents bee , yet the essence of the marriage consists in the mutuall consent and promise of the children that marry , and so here the essence of a ministers call must lye in the election of the church and acceptance of the minister which is not avoided but by the similitude confirmed . it is a duty of neighbour churches to lend their helpe to their brethren in election of their ministers , when the scripture willeth us to exhort one another or admonish one another , it is not onely a command to every singular person towards his fellow , but also to any whole company . answ . wee grant all this , and that it is the duty of a church , bee it weake or strong , to take all needfull counsell , advise or exhortations and admonitions in so weighty a worke . but if churches or others shall impose upon any church any officer without their choice , this is no brotherly helpe , but unjust usurpation . and if you understand junius so , as that charitatis jure & communione sanctorum , one church have power to choose for another , other wayes , then by advising them to elect such an one for themselves , wee see no reason for that , nor doe wee thinke it is his meaning : neither doth paul , rom. . . lay any foundation of such usurpations , but onely of mutuall brotherly helpfulnesse by counsell , &c. and the contrary is not policy , but some degree of tyranny . reply . it is a blemish in the call of a minister , if either the people be not fit to choose , or being fit they be shut out from the chocie , but this maime doth not make a nullity in his calling . answ . if a people or church bee never so weake , which is here called unfitnesse , yet christ being amongst them , and they making an orderly and good choice , there can be no blemish in the call seeing the right is them , and such a free choice will better stablish the conscience of any godly minister in his call , then if a synod of the ablest ministers should impose him without their free choice , except it can bee proved that the right of election is in the synod , which we thinke will not bee done . but bee they able or weake , if the people be shut out , it must needs make a great maim in his call , and if they doe not consent nor submit to such a one called by others , it will make it a nullity , as was shewed before . what authority hath hee to minister to any church , if they will refuse him ? or who shall censure them for refusing , by any rule of christ ? reply . the saving truth of god and a lawfull ministery are both essentiall to a true church . answ . answ . what then becomes of the church when the minister is dead ? reply . the true church hath continued by the blessing of god where the election of ministers hath beene given away by the people or taken from them . answ . true ; but it hath been continued by the after consent , and subjection of the people to their ministers chosen by others , else they must needs have broken a pieces and dissolved the church , or taken upon them to choose others to themselves , which still shewes that the essence of the call is in the people . what is said of the disorders of ancient churches in elections , we passe over as nothing to this purpose . that the ministery might bee lawfull for substance , where there were many defects in the manner of the call we grant , the church at length consenting to submit thereto , in whom the true right is placed by christ : and therefore we passe over what followes to that purpose , though wee might object against some passages in the discourse . reply . as for the second branch of your answer we know not well your meaning ; if this be your minde , that a minister lawfully called and set over the congregation , is to bee esteemed a minister in the usuall church , a●… the particular church hath unity with , and is part of the universall or catholique , and as a party baptized is not baptized into that congregation onely , but into all churches , and that the ministery is one , cujus a singulis in solidum pars tenetur , as cyprian speaketh , and therefore though the minister be unjustly cast off by one congregation , yet hee is not to be esteemed as no minister , wee freely consent . but if your meaning bee , that hee is onely by right a minister of that particular congregation , because unjustly deposed , as formerly in the execution of his office , hee was a minister to them onely , and to no other society whatsoever , or in what respect soever , your opinion is contrary to the opinion of the universall , and tends to destroy the unity of the church , and that communion which the churches of god ought to have one with another . answ . first , if our meaning be doubtfull , seeing these expressions doe not well suite our notion , nor fully enter into our understanding , we shall give the meaning of our answer distinctly , and then consider what is here said . first , there is a difference betweene the unjust leaving or casting off a minister , without all orderly proceedings against him , and the unjust deposing him in an orderly way of church censure : if the question be taken in the first sense , he remaines every way and in every respect by right a minister as hee was before , except he reject them , and so dissolve the relation that was between them . but if the question speak of an orderly censure of deposition unjustly , then we judge of that case as we would do in any other , censure of a member by excommunication , & therefore we say , he is stil a minister , in f●…ro interno before christ , for clavis errans non ligat . secondly , in respect of that church he hath stil right truly to minister to them , and is their minister though unjustly hindered in the execution of his ministery , as a member unjustly censured hath a true right to the ordinances , and membership , though unjustly hindred from the same , though in foro externo , we grant to them or in their account he is no minister , as a person excommunicated is to them no member . thirdly , in respect of other churches , if it doth appeare unto them that hee is unjustly deposed , they may and ought to esteeme him still , and receive him and have communion with him , as a true minister of jesus christ , in the church he doth belong to , as they may do with a member unjustly cast out , but til that appeare unto them , they cannot so esteem and honor him , ( being orderly deposed but must at least suspend their judgment til the case be cleared . fourthly we answer clearely and plainely to the chiefe scope of the question , if a minister bee unjustly deposed or forsaken by his particular church , and he also withall renounce and forsake them , so farre as all office and relation betweene them cease , then is hee no longer an officer or pastour in any church of god , whatsoever you will call it . and the reason is , because a ministers office in the church is no indelible character , but consists in his relation to the flocke : and if a minister once ordained , his relation ceasing , his office of a minister , steward of the mysteries of god shall still remaine ; why should not a ruling elder or deacon remaine an elder or deacon in the church as well ? all are officers ordained of christ alike given to his church , officers chosen and ordained by laying on of ●…ands alike , but we●… , suppose you will not say a deacon . in such a case should remaine a deacon in the catholique church , therefore not a minister . secondly , wee shall now consider what is here said , and first this language of a minister in the usuall church as a particular church hath union with and is a part of the universall , it is an unusuall expression to us , and to the scripture phrase , and therefore beare with us if wee fall short of your meaning ; the usuall church in england hath beene either the arch-deacons church in the deana●…ies , or diocesan in the bishoprick , or provinciall or nationall , but wee hope that there is no such intended here , yet to all this and the jurisdiction thereof particular churches have been subject as parts there . but if by usuall church you meane a classical , provinciall or nationall church , wee must intreat better grounds for any of these , and therefore wee must confesse our minde and meaning is not so , that wee looke at a minister of a particular church in any such relation to the usuall and intermediate church betweene it and the catholique . the second sense therefore we owne and acknowledge as before . but whether this be contrary to the judgement and practise of the universall church , wee know not , because it is hard for us know what the universall church judgeth , except we could heare it speake or see its practise ; if the onely head prophet and shepherd of the church jesus christ be fit to declare her judgement , we will be tryed thereby , who we know hath set elders in every particular church , act. . . to watch over their particular flock , act. . . but not over any other church that wee can finde . neither doth this destroy the unity or communion of the catholique church , nor of particular churches one with another as is said , for churches may enjoy brotherly communion one with another , without such stated formes , under the power and authority of one another , as hath been shewed before . reply . for if he be not a minister to other churches , then are not the churches of god one , nor the communion which they have together on , nor the ministers one , non the flocke which they feed one . answ . in what sense is intended to have the ministers one , and flocke one , we doe not see . if you meane one by one visible government over the catholique church , wherein there is a subordination of churches and ministers , you must at last rise to oecomenicall pastor , or councell that must be the supreme , which can scarce ever be had . if you meane an unity by brotherly communion in office●… of love and mutuall helpefulnesse of churches and ministers , without usurpation , such an unity and community is not destroyed , and the argument doth not follow : cannot many distinct societies of townes or corporations make up one county , except the major or constable in one towne be a major or constable in others also ? by this reason the deacon of one church is the deacon of all , or else the unity is destroyed . reply . if the pastor derive all his authority from the church , when the church hath set him aside , what right hath he to administer among that people ? answ . true , but we say he derives all his authority from christ , by the church indeed , applying that office to him , to which the authority is annexed by the institution of christ , hence being the minister of christ unto them , if they without christ depose him , they hinder the exercise of his office , but his right remaines . reply . as they give right to an unworthy man to minister amongst them , if they cal him unjustly , so they take right from the worthy , if they unjustly depose him . answ . we grant there is a parity in foro externo , but as in the call , his outward cal consists in the election of the calling , and the acceptation of the called , to compleat his power of administration . now this by christ in his church may be destroyed in a ●…ust censure without his consent , but cannot unjustly be wrung from him without his consent , & therefore he may hold his right , till either hee be justly deposed or willingly relinquish the same upon their injurious interruption of the use of his right . reply . and whereas you say the minister is for the ministery , and the office for the execution , and so the pastor and the flocke are relatives , and therefore if their election gave him authority among them to feed , their c●…sting him off hath stripped him of the same power they gave him . answ . wee grant it is so , yet the execution may bee unjustly hindred , though the right and office remaine : but we may well retort this argument upon the minister of the usuall or catholicke church . thus if the minister bee for the ministery , and the office for the execution , and so the pastor and flock be relatives , then hee that may justly for ever be hindred of all execution of the ministery and hath no power to censure his flock , or cannot so much as justly approve , and admonish them for the same , surely hee hath a poore office and ministery , but such a minister that hath no particular congregation , that is his flock under his charge , may justly be excluded out of all churches , and cannot censure or reprove his catholique or usuall church for the same , therefore he is indeed no minister , and and hath no office in the church of god. ●…hap . xvii . position . that one minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . reply . the preaching of the word and publique prayer in the congregation , meet together solemnely to worship god , &c. are properly ministeriall , &c. answ . concerning our true sense and meaning in our answer to this position wee have spoken in the second consideration of the second and third positions , to which wee referre the reader , onely here wee must ingenuously confesse that our expression , that a minister exercising in another church , doth it not by vertue of any calling , but onely by his gifts , is not so cleare , but may occasion stumbling , yet the the next words following doe fully expresse our mindes , viz. that he doth not put forth such a ministeriall act of authority and power in dispensing of gods ordinances , as a minister doth performe to that church , whereunto hee is called to be a minister , for so hee doth not performe any ministeriall act with that authority : hee doth to his owne which further cleares up our expression in the second consideration , viz. that he is a pastor of none but his proper flocke , although some acts of his office may extend beyond his owne flocke , as we have shewed before ; and therefore in this sense we may still conclude , that if the question be put to any minister ( so exercising in another church ) which was once put to our saviour , by what authority dost thou these things ? let him study how to give an answer , for wee have not yet learned it from this reply . we confesse there are some godly learned servants of christ , who possibly may bee otherwise minded , and thinke that a minister preaching in another congregation , doth it onely as a gifted man ; as the refuter of doctor downam ( with others in former times of reformation ) beleeved also . but we desire that if any difference appeare herein , it may bee no prejudice to the same cause for substance wee maintaine , if by sundry lines wee all meet at last in the same point . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a -e vid . pet. mart. loc. com. de excom . brins watch , part . cap●… . notes for div a -e jun. lib. . paral . . notes for div a -e g. apol. cap. . q. . notes for div a -e ibid. p. . peter martyr in kings . verse . pet. mart. com. loc. de idol . in prae●… . l. . iohn . , . conc. miliv . can. . tertull. apol. cap. . vid. chemnit . ex. de innoc. sanctorum . vid. birth of heresies , out of elasopolitans comment . pet. mart. loc . ●…om ▪ de idol . notes for div a -e whit. de eccle. cor. . ▪ vid. brightm . an. in loc. cypr. lib. . epist . . cypr. lib. . epist . . * right of presbyt . pag. . page . page . tertul. lib. . com. mar. notes for div a -e * calvin epist . . chamier de euchar . cap. . notes for div a -e reply to the second consideration of the answer . notes for div a -e pet mart. de excom . loc. com. * officiall . notes for div a -e lib. . cap. . rev. . and . . acts . . ●… . , , ●… . cham de bap. lib. . cap. ●… . a direction for a publick profession in the church assembly, after private examination by the elders which direction is taken out of the scripture, and points unto that faith and covenant contained in the scripture. being the same for substance which was propounded to, and agreed upon by the church of salem at their beginning. the sixth of the sixth moneth, . in the preface to the declaration of the faith owned and professed by the congregationall churches in england. ... higginson, john, - . approx. kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from -bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : - (eebo-tcp phase ). a wing h a estc r this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons . universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase , no. a ) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set ) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, - ; : ) a direction for a publick profession in the church assembly, after private examination by the elders which direction is taken out of the scripture, and points unto that faith and covenant contained in the scripture. being the same for substance which was propounded to, and agreed upon by the church of salem at their beginning. the sixth of the sixth moneth, . in the preface to the declaration of the faith owned and professed by the congregationall churches in england. ... higginson, john, - . p. samuel green, [cambridge, mass. : ] author's name and imprint from wing. caption title; title from caption and opening words of text. reproduction of the original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p using tcp tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between and available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the , texts created during phase of the project have been released into the public domain as of january . anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. % (or pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf- unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p , characters represented either as utf- unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng congregational churches in massachusetts -- government -- early works to . - tcp assigned for keying and markup - spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images - scott lepisto sampled and proofread - scott lepisto text and markup reviewed and edited - pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a direction for a publick profession in the church assembly , after private examination by the elders . which direction is taken out of the scripture , and points unto that faith and covenant contained in the scripture . being the same for substance which was propounded to , and agreed upon by the church of salem at their beginning , the sixth of the sixth moneth , . in the preface to the declaration of the faith owned and professed by the congregationall churches in england . the genuine use of a confession of faith is , that under the same form of words they express the substance of the same common salvation or unity of their faith. accordingly it is to be looked upon as a fit meanes , whereby to express that their common faith and salvation , and not to be made use of as an imposition upon any . vve beseech you brethren to know them that labour among you , and are over you in the lord , and admonish you and to esteem them very highly in love for their work sake and be at peace among your selves , thess . . , . obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your soules , as they that must give an account , that they may do it with j●y and not with grief , for that is unprofitable for you , heb. . . who is that wise and faithfull steward , whom his lord shall make ruler over his houshold , to give them their portion of mea● in due season , luk. . . one faith , one baptism , eph. . . the common faith , tit. . . the common salvation , jude ver. . christ jesus the high priest of our profession , heb. . . the profession of our faith. heb. . . one shall say i am the lords , isai . . . hold fast the form of sound words . tim. . . the form of knowledge , and of the truth , rom. . . the form of doctrine delivered unto you , rom. . . the confession of faith . i do believe with my heart and confess with my mouth . concerning god. that there is but one only true god in three persons , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , each of them god , and all of them one and the same infinite , eternall god , most wise , holy , just , mercifull and blessed for ever . concerning the works of god. that this god is the maker , preserver , and governour of all things according to the counsel of his own will , and that god made man in his own image , in knowledge , holiness and righteousness . concerning the fall of m●n . that adam by transgressing the command of god , f●ll from god and brought himself and his posterity into a state of sin and death , under the wrath and curse of god , which i do believe to be my own condition by nature as well as any other . concerning jesus christ . that god sent his son into the world , who for our sakes became man , that he might redeem and save us by his obedience unto death , and that he arose from the dead , ascended unto heaven and sitteth at the right hand of god , from whence he shall come to judge the world. concerning the holy ghost . that god the holy ghost hath fully , revealed the doctrine of christ and will of god in the scriptures of the old and new testament , which are the word of god , the perfect , perpetuall and only rule of our faith and obedience . concerning the benefits we have by christ . that the same spirit by working faith in gods elect , applyeth unto them christ with all his benefits of justification , and sanctification , unto salvation , in the use of those ordinances which god hath appointed in his written word , which therefore ought to be observed by us unt●l the coming of christ . concerning the church of christ . that all true believers being united unto christ as the head , make up one misticall church which is the body of christ , the members wherof having fellowship with the father son and holy-ghost by faith , and one with another in love , doe receive here upon earth forgiveness of sinnes , with the life of grace , and at the resurrection of the body , they shall receive everlasting life . amen . the covenant . i do heartily take and avouch this one god who is made known to us in the scripture , by the name of god the father , and god the son even jesus christs and god the holy ghost to be my god , according to the tenour of the covenant of grace ; wherein he hath promised to be a god to the faithfull and their seed after them in their generations , and taketh them to be his people and therfore unfeignedly repenting of all my sins , i do give up my self wholy unto this god to believe in love , serve & obey him sincerely and faithfully according to his written word , against all the temptations of the devil , the world , and my own flesh and this unto the death . i do also consent to be a member of this particular church , promising to continue stedfastly in fellowship with it , in the publick worsh●p of god , to submit to the order discipline and government of christ in it , and to the ministerial teach●ng guidance and oversight of the elders of it , and to the brotherly watch of fellow members : and all this according to gods word , and by the grace of our lord jesus christ enabling me thereunto . amen . questions to be answered at the baptizing of children , or the substance to be expressed by the parents . quest . doe you present and give up this child , or these children , unto god the father , sonne and holy ghost , to be baptized in the faith , and engaged in the covenant of god professed by this church ? quest . doe you s●llemnly promise in the p●…senc●… of god , that by the grace of christ , you will discharge your covenant duty towards your children , s●e●s to bring them upon the nurture and admon●…ion of the lord , teaching and commanding them to keep the way of god , that they may be able ( through the grace of christ ) to make a personall prof●ssion of their faith and to own the covenant of god themselves in due time . finis