The famous tryal in B.R. between Thomas Neale, Esq. and the late Lady Theadosia Ivy the 4th of June, 1684, before the Right Honourable the late Lord Jeffreys, lord chief justice of England, for part of Shadwell in the county of Middlesex ... together with a pamphlet heretofore writ ... by Sir Thomas Ivy ... Mossam, Elam. 1696 Approx. 525 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 49 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2004-05 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A40860 Wing F386 ESTC R35557 15363852 ocm 15363852 103513 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A40860) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 103513) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1187:16) The famous tryal in B.R. between Thomas Neale, Esq. and the late Lady Theadosia Ivy the 4th of June, 1684, before the Right Honourable the late Lord Jeffreys, lord chief justice of England, for part of Shadwell in the county of Middlesex ... together with a pamphlet heretofore writ ... by Sir Thomas Ivy ... Mossam, Elam. Ivy, Theadosia Stepkins, Lady, d. 1694 or 5? Neale, Thomas, d. 1699? Ivie, Thomas. Alimony arraigned, or, The remonstrance and humble appeal of Thomas Ivie, Esq. England and Wales. Court of King's Bench. 95 p. in various pagings : map. s.n.], [S.l. 1696. "Elam Mossam, plaintiff; versus Dame Theodosia Ivy, defendant"--P. 1. "Mr. Neale was lessee and so now lessor of the plaintiff"--To the reader. "Alimony arraign'd, or, The remonstrance and humble appeal of Thomas Ivie, Esq." has special t.p. 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Divorce suits -- England. 2003-12 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2004-02 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2004-03 Judith Siefring Sampled and proofread 2004-03 Judith Siefring Text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-04 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE Famous Tryal in B.R. BETWEEN THOMAS NEALE , Esq AND THE Late Lady Theadosia Ivy. The 4th of Iune , 1684. BEFORE The RIGHT HONOURABLE THE Late Lord Jeffreys , Lord Chief Justice of ENGLAND , For PART of SHADWELL IN THE County of MIDDLESEX . AS ALSO The Title of the Creditors of Sir Anthony Bateman , and the Heirs of Whichcott , compared with that of the Lady Ivy to certain Lands in WAPPING . TOGETHER WITH A Pamphlet heretofore writ and set out by Sir Thomas Ivy ( her Husband ) Himself , and here now Reprinted again . In Perpetuam Rei Memoriam . Printed in the Year , 1696. TO THE READER . THE late Lady Ivy , so many Years famous for Wit , Beauty , and Cunning in Law above any , being so Unfortunate in the Year 1684. in a Tryal between Thomas Neale , Esq and her Ladyship , before the then Lord Chief Justice Ieffryes , to have the Deeds by her then produced not believed , such of her Heirs and Executors as have not renounced ( which some of them have ) the having any thing to do with her Title ( as well in Vindication of her Ladyships Honour , as of the Integrity of such Council and Attorneys , as then were imployed in the Cause , in Case they should be so again ) do give out of late , that though she and they then were so cruelly baffled , they however will try for 't again . Now for the Honour of both Judges and Jury before whom that Cause was then tryed , and for the Benefit of the Free-holders of Middlesex , whose Estates may be possibly subject to be claimed by Deeds left by her Ladyship , she having often declared she had Title to many more Houses and Lands than she in her Life time had sued for , as also for the Satisfaction of such as are in the least desirous to know the Truth of this Matter . The following Tryal is Printed , with a Map of the Land then tryed for , being about seven Acres in Shadwell , in the County of Middlesex , of which the Lady Ivy by a Verdict the Michaelmas Term before had got the Possession . The State of the Question being whither the said seven Acres was part of the ancient Inheritance of the Dean of St. Pauls , London ; to whom the said Mr. Neale was Lessee and so now the Lessor of the Plaintiff , or part of Wapping-Marsh that had been dreined by one Vanderdelf , and after sold to the Stepkinses , under whom Lady Ivy did claim : As likewise is with it reprinted Three or Four Sheets of Paper writ in the Year 1687. comparing the Lady Ivy's Title with that of the Creditors of Sir Anthony Bateman , and the Heirs of Witchcutt , for Lands in Wapping ; with a Map thereof as it now lies , most plain and exactly agreeing with the Boundaries mentioned in the old Deeds on Record , by which alone , and no other , they claim , and now are possest of the same . To which also is added a Pamphlet entituled , Allimony Arraigned , writ by Sir Thomas Ivy ( her Husband ) himself ; Reprinted herewith to make the Book sell the better , and to the longer perpetuate so true and diverting a Story . The CONTENTS . THE Dean of St. Pauls Title , from pag. 1 to pag. 4 Lady Ivies Title , from pag. 4 , to 22 Knowles Examined about finding Deeds for Lady Ivy , p. 7 Swears he found out one Deed by what was Writ on the Outside , and nothing was Writ on it . p. 8 Swears he found another Deed by seeing Marcellus Hall's Name Writ on the Outside , which Writing after appeared to be writ by Sutton , Lady Ivies Attorney , p. 9 The Survey of Stepney produced for and by Lady Ivy , but proved otherwise , p. 12 Banister , Lady Ivyes Rent-gatherer , Examined to the finding a Deed in Knowles's House , to which he had set his Hand , and swears he found it there p. 15 But it proved the Purchase Deed , and so that could not be , p. 16 Banister and Knowles swear contrary to each other , p. 17 A Commission of Sewers produced , but not by the proper Officer , p. 23 The Overshot-Mill pretended to , by Lady Ivyes own Witnesses , made appear to be a Tide-Mill , p. 26 Mrs. Barefoot , a through paced Witness , sworn , and other Witnesses of Lady Ivyes , p. 29 , to 32 The Plaintiffs Reply , p. 32 Foxes-lane proved the Boundary 'twixt the Deans Land and Wapping-Marsh , by Mar and Leyburn the Surveyers , proved 130 Acres West of Foxes-Lane , p. 37 The Forgery opened and proved by the Style of the Deeds themselves , by Styles in the Acts of Parliament , and Fines of that time , p. 38 Sir Charles Cotterell sworn , p. 39 Sir Charles tells the story of Lady Ivyes forging a Mortgage of 1500 l. from Sir William Salkeild , and how Mr. Duffett was privy to it , and how Mr. Sutton was so concern'd in it , that L.C.J. said it smelt rank of a Knave ; how Lady Ivy did relinquish this Mortgage , but afterwards writ Duffett word she would set it up again , and that he should have half of what she Recovered , p. 40 Lady Ivy frets at Sir Charles Cotterell's Evidence . p. 41 Mrs. Duffett ( Lady Salthills Daughter , and Widow to Mr. Duffett , who was reputed to forge for Lady Ivy ) being sworn , swears she saw her Husband forge several Deeds for Lady Ivy. 1st , a Bond of 1000 l. from Sir Tho. Ivy. 2d . Several Letters . 3d. She seeing him writing a Parchment , she asked him what 't was , and was answered , he was Counterfeiting one Glovers Lease , by which Lady Ivy would get many hundreds of Pounds , and that he should get 500 l. 4th the aforesaid 1500 l. Mortgage , Lady Ivy and Mr. Duffett agreed to make in my Sight , Lady Ivy directing what Ink to use to make it look Old , that Mr. Sutton was lett in when Mr. Duffett was counterfeiting for Lady Ivy ; and how they rub'd the Deeds on dirty Windows , and wore them in their Pockets , and laid them out in Balconies , and shriveled them before the Fire , or in the Sun to make them look Old , p. 41 200 l. of the Money borrowed of Sir Charles Cotterel at one time , given to Mr. Duffett , and as much to Mr. Sutton , Mrs. Eliz. Riccord Sworn , produced Lady Ivy's own Letters left with her by Mr. Duffett , to whom they were writ , in one of which she tells him , she intends to set Sir William Salthill's Mortgages on foot again ; and as her Husband promised him he should have half , and two Bottles of Ink , out of which she saw Mr. Duffett write for Lady Ivy , what he said was forged , and said , that with Ink out of these Bottles , he could make new writter . Writings look old very soon , p. 42 Here the Plaintiff ended , and then follows : Mr. Attorney General 's Arguments to palliate the Forgeries , p. 43 Mr. Sollicitor Geneneral endeavours , ( but to no purpose ) to make them not believed Forged , p. 44 Mr. Solicitor General pressing that for Evidence very hard , the Lord Chief Iustice would not admit , p. 45 Mr. Attorney and Mr. Sollicitor say all they can for Lady Ivy , p. 45 Then follows the Lord Chief Iustices Speech , wherein he incomparably Summs up the whole Evidence , p. 46 His Lordship speaks of the Forgeries , p. 52 Mr. Sutton shuffles and rouses , whereupon L. C. I. tells him , it is very Rank , I assure you , p. 54 A Verdict offered by Lady Ivy to destroy Mrs. Duffett's Testimony ; as also her Husband's Oath declared to be no Evidence . See Pag. 44. p. 54 The Verdict for the Plaintiff , and several of the Forged Deeds ordered to be left in Court , and a Prosecution for Forgery directed upon them , p. 54 Next follows the Map of Shadwell : Then the Map of the Lands in Wapping , and the Comparison 'twixt the Title of the Creditors of Sir Anthony Bateman , and Heirs of Whitchcutt , and that of the Lady Ivy , and ends with Allimony Arraigned . The Lady Ivy's Tryal , For great Part of Shadwell , in the County of Middlesex . Die Martis , 3. Junii , 1684. Ter ' Trin ' 36 Car. II. B. R. Elam Mossam , Plaintiff ; versus Dame Theodosia Ivy , Defendant . This Day this Cause came again to be tried at the Bar of the Court of King's Bench , by a Iury of the County of Middlesex ; whose Names follow : Middlesex Jury . Sir Reginald Foster , Baronet . Sir Iohn Cutler , Knight and Baronet . Sir Goddard Nelthorp , Baronet . Sir Michael Heneage , Knight . Sir William Gulston , Knight . Sir Richard Downton , Knight . Richard Reynell , Esq Ralph Bucknall , Esq Thomas Austin , Esq Ioseph Dawson , Esq Thomas Cleve , Esq Richard White , Esq Who being counted , the Record was read to them by the Clerk of the Papers in English ; and opened by Mr. Holloway , for the Plaintiff . Mr. Serj. Stringer . MAY it please your Lordship , and you Gentlemen of the Jury , I am of Council in this Case with the Plaintiff , and the Question will be whether the Lessor or the Plaintiff hath a good Title to the Tenements in Question , which are about Three or Four Hundred Tenements near Radcliffe in Shadwell Parish , and the Ground thereof is , say we , the ancient Inheritance of the Church of St. Paul's , who have had the Possession thereof for Four or Five Hundred Years . We shall prove Leases down for some Hundreds of Years , till we come to that made to the Lessor of the Plaintiff under whom we claim . We will begin with the last Lease of Dean Stillingfleet , 30. Sept. 1678. upon the surrender of the Lease made by Dean Sandcroft , now my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury . Swear Ieofrey Willan ( which was done ) it is a Church Lease , but yet he is a Witness to it . The Lease of 30. Sept. 1678. was read . Mr. Serj. Stringer . ( shewing to him another Deed. ) Did you see that Deed sealed and delivered ? Willan . Yes , Sir. An Indenture 4 tite . made the 25th . March , 1679. 31 Car. II. between Thomas Neale , Esq the Lady Gold , &c. Read. Mr. Att. Gen. We admit the Assignment . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Then we shall prove the Lands in Question were always held of the Dean of Pauls . Mr. Att. Gen. Ay do , shew that these Lands in Question were so , if you can . L. C. I. I would not interrupt you , Gentlemen , pray go your own way ; but if I mistake not , you had as good begin with 5 Ed. VI. as you did last time , as I remember , I have not indeed my Book I had then here ; I fear we have not overmuch time to waste , we shall want time at the latter end of the Cause , therefore pray come close to the Merits of the Cause . Mr. Serj. Stringer . We will shew it if they require it , they know it well enough . Mr. Att. Gen. Shew what you can . Mr. Serj. Stringer . In 5 H. VIII . the Dean of Paul's , Collett , Leases to one Iohn Hall. L. C. I. But it is 5 of Ed. VI. I ask for . Mr. Serj. Stringer . 23. Feb. 5 Ed. VI. Dean May doth make a Lease to Ioan Hall , and Marcellus Hall. Then Dean Fecknam , 10. Dec. 2 and 3 Phil. and Mar. in Consideration of a Surrender of that Lease , let ts another Lease to Marcellus Hall ; and so it continued till May 1630. and then Dean Donne made a Lease for Three Lives , and upon the Surrender of that in 1636. Dean Winnet made a Lease to Moor , and in 1640. he made another Lease to Winterburn , which was sold to Mr. Neale , and so came to the Lesser of the Plaintiff . First read this Book . Mr. Att. Gen. What Book is it , Mr. Serjeant ? L. C. I. Ay , tell us what it is ; open it before you read it . Clerk. reads . ] A Tenement with a Watermil , cum Pertinentiis — L. C. I. What is it you read there ? Mr. Serj. Stringer . It is a Book that belongs to the Dean and Chapter of St. Pauls . L. C. I. What Book is it ? How do you prove it to belong to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls ? Then Mr. Spencer was called , but could not readily come in by reason of the Crowd . Mr. Porter was sworn . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Mr. Porter , What say you to this Book ? Porter . Since the beginning of this Suit , this Book was found among the Writings of the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . Mr. Att. Gen. How long ago , Sir , upon your Oath ? Porter . About a Year ago . L. C. I. That is but a slovenly account of such a Book as this . Mr. Williams . It is plain , my Lord , it is not a new Book made on purpose : L. C. I. It is plain that in this slippery Age we live in , it is very easy to make a Book look as old as you would have it . Mr. Serj. Stringer . We will go on to the Lease made to Marcellus Hall. Then Mr. Spencer came in and was sworn . Mr. Williams . Pray , Sir , when first saw you that Book ? Spencer . Seven Years ago . Mr. Att. Gen. Where Sir ? Spencer . Among the Evidences of the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . L. C. I. What is it you would read in it ? an intire Lease , or what ? Mr. Serg. Stringer . 'T is a short Note of a Lease . Clerk. reads . ] A Tenement with a Watermil — L. C. I. See if the Book have any Title . Clerk. No , my Lord. L. C. I. Let me see it . ( Which was done ) Mr. Serj. Stringer . The 23th . Feb. 5 Ed. VI. — L. C. I. You , Spencer , Have you seen in any of the Books an Entry of any Lease made by Dean Collett . Spencer . I have not observed that I have seen any Lease of Dean Collet . L. C. I. Have you seen any Lease made by Dean Collet , in the time of Henry VIII ▪ about any of the Churches Lands ? I ask you the Question , because I observe here in this Paper in two places here is the Word , Dean Collett , writ with another Hand than that of the Book ; but Nowell is writ with the same Hand as the other . And so Nowell seems to have been put for the Maker of this Lease , as being put upon the Top ; when in Truth he was not Dean till long after . Upon your Oath , in whose Name was that Lease Lett that is here spoken of . Spencer . I know not , my Lord , that is the Book I saw then . L. C. I. Is this Lease in your Book of Leases ? Mr. Att. Gen. Pray , Gentlemen , you did produce before your Original Deed of Purchase : Where is it now ? Mr. Williams . That Book was produced and read at the first Tryal . L. C. I. What first Tryal ? not that last Term. Mr. Williams . It was in Court at that time . L. C. I. I believe not , you are mistaken in that , for I brought the Notes I took then and I find no such thing here . Mr. Att. Gen. They produce then the first Purchase of the Dean . L. C. I. Is there any Lease of Henry VIII . Time in that Book ? Spencer . I do not remember any Lease of H. VIII . Time of this Land , but I have seen that Book ever since I belonged to the Dean's Business . L. C. I. Have you not a Book of the Succession of your Deans ? When was Collet Dean ? Mr. Williams . In 1505. L. C. I. When was Nowell Dean ? Mr. Williams . in 1560. L. C. I. Then I assure you this Book is grandly suspicious . Mr. Att. Gen. They threaten us with Forgeries , and I know not what , I believe it will be found on Mr. Neale's Side . L. C. I. If in case you come and produce a Book , and you value your selves upon the Antiquity of it , as an Evidence that this Land did belong to the Dean and Chapter , and leased by them 5 H. VIII . and in that Book Nowell is written by the same Hand as the rest of the Book , as Dean then , but because you find Collet was then Dean , and Nowell not till threescore Years after , Nowel , is turned by another hand to Collet , it draws a great Suspicion certainly upon your Book , as set up for a purpose . Mr. Williams . It is true , my Lord , if we did that it were something , but we find an old Book among the Evidences of the Church , and we produce it as such ; we have not altered it , therefore it cannot be done for our purpose . L. C. I. Who knows who did it , but done it is . Mr. Att. Gen. And your Title is under the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . L. C. I. Who keeps the Evidences that belong to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls ? Spencer . They are kept in the Chapter-House . L. C. I. I am persuaded there may be an ancient Book , and this may be such an one , but it looks a little untoward in this Particular . You , Spencer , did you look upon those two particular Passages ? Spencer , No ; I did not observe it . Mr. Serj. Stringer . My Lord , our next Lease in the Book recites one made by Collett . Mr. Att. Gen. Come upon your Oath ; did not Mr. Baron , or Mr. Neale come to search in this Book ? Spencer . Yes , they did . Mr. Serj. Lutchwich . How long ago was that ? Spencer . As to Mr. Baron or Mr. Neale themselves , I did never see them come to search : But some for them have . Mr. Williams . Do you believe the Book was thus as it is now , before you came at first to it ? Mr. Serj. Lutwich . You say they did not come to search , what did they come for then , to drink ? Spencer . They have come to the Officer , Mr. Porter , but I never see them search . Mr. Williams . But I ask you again , was it so when you found it first ? Spencer . I believe it was , I know of no Alteration . Mr. Serj. Stringer . But to put it out of doubt , we have the second Lease , which does recite this Lease of Collett's . Mr. North. Nay , my Lord , we have another piece of Evidence that will fortify that Book to be true , as to the Foundation of it , that such a Lease was then made as the Book says ; for we have a kind of Particular , or Catalogue of the Evidences of the Dean and Chapter . It is an ancient Writing . And in this there is mention particularly made of a Lease made in 5 H. VIII . Pray Sir look upon that , and give an account of it . Spencer . I have seen this among the rest of the Evidences of the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . Mr. Att. Gen. How long ago ? Spencer . I cannot directly tell . Mr. Pollexfen . How long do you think , upon your Oath ? Spencer . Two Years ago . Mr. Att. Gen. That is since this Contest . L. C. I. Ay , That is a little too lately for an ancient Writing . Mr. Serj. Lutwitch . Did you see it before Mr. Neale or Mr. Baron ordered a Search there ? Spencer . I cannot say particularly I did ; I have seen this Paper — Mr. Att. Gen. Paper , Man ? it is a Parchment , pr'ythee mind what thou sayst : How long is it since you first saw that Parchment ? Spencer . I believe I have seen it this seven Years , but not that I can swear to have taken any particular Notice of it . Mr. Att. Gen. Where did you see it first , upon your Oath ? Spencer . Among the rest of the Deeds and Evidences that belong to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . Mr. Att. Gen. Upon what Occasion did you take notice of it first ? Spencer . Upon searching among the Writings . Mr. Att. Gen. Who did search with you at that time , upon your Oath ? Spencer . Mr. Porter . L. C. I. Read it . Mr. Att. Gen. Was it delivered to Mr. Neale before it was brought hither ? Spencer . It is brought here now among the Dean's other Writings , we never use to deliver any out . Clerk. [ Reads . ] This is dated 2 Eliz. 1559. Books and other Writings appertaining Mr. Serj. Stringer . Now we will read the Lease to Marcellus Hall ; wherein this is recited to have been made . The Lease in the Book was read , dated 23. Feb. 5 Ed. VI. for Five and Forty Years , at 10 l. Rent . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Then the next Lease is in 2 & 3 Phil. & Mar. 10. Dec. 2 & 3 Phil. & Mar. from Dean Fecknam to Marcellus Hall for Ninety Years from Michaelmas before . [ Which was read . Mr. Att. Gen. There is a License to alter the Mill , which we shall prove he afterwards did . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Your Lordship observes here were Grounds and several Houses at this time lett , with the Mill , and Ponds , and Ditches to receive the Water . After this , Marcellus Hall assigned to Adrian Moor ; he in the Year 1618. deviseth it to his Wife Mary Moor ; and in 1630. she surrenders and hath a new Lease for Lives . Mr. Att. Gen. Shew your Assignments , Mr. Serjeant , from Marcellus Hall. Mr. Serj. Stringer . That we cannot do , nor need we , for we are not to derive our Title that way , but the Churches Title is ours . We will shew you Dean Donnes Lease to Mary Moor upon her Surrender . Which Lease , dated 14 May , 1630. 6 Car. I. for three Lives at 10 l. &c. was read . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Then Mary Moor , Six Years after , surrenders this Lease , and takes a new Lease for three Lives in Dean Winneff's time , at 10 l. a Year Rent , and 40 s. Increase . Which Lease dated 5. Aug. 1636. 6 Car. I. was read . Then another Lease dated 5. March , 1640. 16 Car. I. by Dean Winniff to Samuel Whitwick , and John Winterburn , at 10 l. the ancient Rent , 40 s. before increased , and 4 l. more now increased . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Thus far it stood upon Leases for Lives ; this Lease continued till 1669. till Mr. Neale bought this Land , and then he renewed it from the now Archbishop , then Dean Sancroft , who raised the Rent to 80 l. during the Life of Freak , who was the surviving Life , and to 100 l. after . Which Lease dated 12. July , 21 Car. 1669. was read . Mr. Serj. Stringer . We have brought it home now , my Lord , to the Lessor of the Plaintiff : For we have shewn this Lease was surrendered to Dean Stillingfleet , and thereupon he made the Lease to Garrard and Cratford , which we have given an account of before . And so we have shewn a Succession of Leases from the Church for 130 odd Years . L. C. I. The last Lease is at the Rent of 240 l. a Year , I think . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Yes , my Lord. Mr. Serj. Maynard . Have you done , Gentlemen ? Mr. Serj. Stringer . Yes ; we have , till you give us farther occasion , Brother . Mr. Serj. Maynard . Then , may it please your Lordship , and you Gentlemen of the Jury , I am of Counsel in this Cause for the Defendant , my Lady Ivy. The Plaintiffs have given you a sort of Evidence for a Title ; but the Truth of it is , all that they say will not make a Conclusion such as they would have from their Premises : For all that they have proved , is that the Deans of Pauls successively one after another have made Leases . They did in the beginning tell you , they had had this Land hundreds of Years : But what have they had ? and what Leases have they made ? But only a Mill , a Bakehouse , a Trough of Lead , and all Houses , Lands , Meadows , and Pastures thereto belonging . We do not deny but that they are to have a Mill ; their Leases are all so , even the new ones do mostly follow the Tract and Words that were used in Queen Mary and Henry the eighths times . But here is the truth of our Case : That the Dean and Chapter had a Mill we agree ; nay , more than that we agree that they have Eighteen Acres that lye on the North side of Ratcliff High-way , and also that they have another parcel of Land called the Lynches . That this may be understood , we now crave leave to deliver Maps to the Court and the Jury . Mr. Serj. Stringer . And we desire ours may be seen too . Mr. I. Withins . Aye , deliver in your Maps , this is the only fit place for them . Which was done on both sides . Mr. Serj. Maynard . Then , my Lord , I will go on . We agree , I say , they had a Mill which is now taken down and put in another place : We shall shew them where it did stand , and that was no part of the Land now in Question . The Jury have seen the place , and I hope have had a satisfactory view of it . There was once a Mill standing , and there was once a Pond , but that Mill and Pond doth stand elsewhere . The Land in Question we say was anciently Marsh Ground , and subject to the overflowing of the Water , and it is so to this Day . In H. VIII . time it was by one Vanderdelf , a Dutchman , drained . This by Act of Parliament Richard Hill was made Owner of and he convey'd it to Stepkin , who was the Defendants Ancestor , and whose Heir she is . And the Boundaries are set down in that , and the subsequent Conveyances , which cannot possibly stand with those that their Mill is said to stand in . We shall shew by several Records the Queen had a Title to it by a Conveyance in way of Mortgage to her , and this afterwards was conveyed back again to the Ancestor of my Lady Ivy. We yield they had a Mill , and they have increased the Rent sufficiently upon it , not to need other Mens Land. ' They have Houses built upon it , I know not indeed how much , but I think it is near 1000 l. a Year that yields to them . If then we can demonstratively shew you where our Ground is , and where theirs is , and if we affirm our Title by Records and good Conveyances , then by a Pretence to a Mill I hope they shall not grind us , or take away all our Land. Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , and Gentlemen of the Jury , I crave leave to answer the Evidence that has been given , before I enter upon our Title . They have spent a great deal of time to derive down a Title to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls , to a Mill , a Bake-house , and some little Ground thereto belonging . And truly , as Mr. Serjeant says , no Man ever questioned the Dean and Chapter for their Mill , and Bake-house , and Leaden Trough . But the thing in Question is , seven Acres and an half of Land , which in the Memory of Man was Marsh Ground : If you observed it , Gentlemen , upon the view how it lies , you know the North Bound is the Dean's Lynches , the South Bound is the Thames Wall , the West Bound Foxes-lane , and the East Bound is the Hilly-ground that is called Cock-hill : And we say as to all this Land , it is none of the Dean and Chapter 's , nor ever did pass or was enjoy'd by this Lease , but we shall shew you it was under another Lease : I must observe that it is very strange upon their own Evidence that a Mill cum Pertinentiis should pass seven Acres of Ground ; and a Mill that was demolished so long ago as in Queen Mary's Time , for so we shall plainly shew you it was , and that these Lands containing so considerable a Revenue should not have a Survey taken of then , or a Boundary made of the Land that they might know what was theirs , and what their Neighbours . For your Lordship and the Jury may observe in all the Leases and Conveyances down to this time in Dean Collett's Lease , and onward there was nothing mentioned but a Mill with the Apurtenances , or a Tenement with the Apurtenances . But they have not one fixed Boundary of their Lands ; and really it cannot be presumed the Dean and Chapter should be so ignorant . Besides , in the ancient Lease that they produce of Ed. VI. Time there was a Covenant to pay the Quit-Rent ; as for Lands holden of the Mannor of Stepney , and we did expect that they would have brought some of the Rolls and Records of that Mannor , and out of some Survey there remaining , would have given a particular Testimony of what Lands belong to the Dean , and what doth not . But in Truth , we say this is properly Marsh-Land , for that will be your Question , Gentlemen , that you are to try , I believe , at last : Whether these seaven Acres thus bounded on Foxes-Lane West , on the Thames South , on the Hilly-way called , Cock-hill , or Mill-ditch East , and on the Dean and Chapter 's Lynches North , be Marsh-ground . The Dean and Chapter have given Evidence of some Leases which upon the Surrenders were delivered up to them , but there are none produced ; they only read the Entries in their Books . Now we shall demonstrate that this Mill of theirs was an Overshot-mill , for there is mention made of a Leaden Trough , which is the only proper Instrument of an Overshot-mill : Therefore we will first settle ( because they themselves will not ) what is theirs , and then we doubt not to give you Satisfaction that this was never any of theirss but the undoubted Inheritance of the Stepkins's , and not a Foot of it belongs to any other Man living . But further , since they will not we shall produce a piece of Evidence , which indeed we must thank Mr. Neale for ; for he blabbing it about that he had a Survey of the Mannor of Stepney which would do our work , put us upon searching there for it , and we have it here , and there you will find a particular of all the Dean's Lands , under 33 s. and 4 d. Quit-Rent : And the Particulars are thus described in that Book ( which shews that there was a Tenement that stood by the Mill , and that paid a Quit-Rent , and the other Lands came under that Quit-Rent ) Twenty Acres called Shadwell-field that lyeth on the North Side of Ratcliff High-way , known at this Day , and all this piece of Ground of Twenty Acres is built upon and improved , which was one part of the Land that came under a Quit-Rent , but not pretended to be any part of this . The next is Five Acres , called The Linches , and it appears by the Record to be but five Acres , and so it is measured now . Ratcliff High-way went on the Top of the Hill , and this is called the Lynch-way , not improved nor built upon , and is exactly abutted according to our Records , and decyphered by Acres to an Acre . Then comes the third Parcel , and that only concerns you to enquire of , whether these seven Acres and an half be parcel of that : And that is described in the Record to be a Tenement called Derrick-hills , which is a Bake-house with a Mill , and the Lead and Trough , the Appurtenances of the Mill at the Rent of 33 s. and 4 d. These are all the Parcels named of the Dean and Chapter 's Lands . And at the last Tryal when they produced the Deed of Purchase whereby this was conveyed to the Dean , which I think was in H. III. Time , it yielded but 3 l. a Year in the whole , and now in time it is come to 2000 l. a Year , without this great Gobbet , which they intend now if they can to swallow up : And now as to this Parcel all they can claim is but a Mill , and in the later Leases it is a House where the Mill stood , and that we shall shew by Records where it stood ; and it is said to be called Derrick-hills , and scituate on the East end of the Marsh now in Question . And to go a Step farther , we shall shew that this was altered in Queen Mary's Time ; for in 5 Ed. VI. the Book wherein their Lease is , makes mention of the Mill as standing ; then in 10. Dec. 2 & 3 Ph. & M. there is a kind of Mistery which we shall by our Evidence unriddle : For then though the Tenant had above Forty Years in being and to come , he must renew his Lease from Dean Fecknam at that time . Now we shall shew that the 20th of the same December , this Place where the Mill then lately stood was let to Iohn Carter , Oarmaker . There is in that place at this Day Lands and Houses , that yield the Dean and Chapter an Hundred Pounds a Year , distinct from the Linches and the North Ground of Ratcliff High-way , and that is a very good Improvement for a Mill and a Bake-house , and a Leaden Trough , and a Ditch for the Water . Now by their Lease in 1630. they recite that the Mill was not worth the keeping up , and according to the Power given them by the Lease , 2 & 3 Phil. & Mar. to pull down the Mill ; it was pull'd down , and built upon , and it came to yield them 100 l. a Year as it doth at this Day . After this we shall call Witnesses to set forth that in this Place in the East End of Cocock-hill in the Memory of Man there was found the Floor of the old Mill , and there are those living that can attest it . So we shall shew they are fishing in a wrong Pool , they have sufficient to answer their Deed of purchase ; and all the Evidence that hath been given you will appear to be only to entertain the Court with an amusing nothing , and to take up the time . But we shall go yet a Step further , and shew beyond all peradventure , that this Land in question was Marsh Ground : And the other side must admit , that if it be Marsh Ground the Dean and Chapter have nothing to do with it , never pretended to a Foot of it , nor doth any Tittle of their Evidence mention Marsh Ground . And truly we will admit it to them if it be not Marsh Ground we have nothing to do with it . So that Gentlemen , your great Question is , whether this be Marsh Ground or not ? And thereupon the main of the Question will be about the East Boundary alone , and no other : For that Wapping-marsh bounded South on the Thames , North on the Lynches , and West on St. Katherines is no Question , nor never was in all the Tryals that have been . Therefore the only point that the Evidence is to be applied unto is about the Eastern Boundary . That we lay to be Cock-hill , anciently called The Hilly-way , or Mill-bank , now Cock-hill , and in the Records of Stepney Mannor , it is called Cornhill : And it is a rising hilly Ground , it appears to be so to this Day , I appeal to the Jury who have seen it . Now that this was Marsh Ground , and the Inheritance of the Stepkins's , we shall prove by these steps . First we shall produce an Act of Parliament made in 27 Hen. VIII . wherein the Bounds appear to be plainly the same as now we say they are at this day , only now it is all built , that is all the Difference ; and the Marsh doth thereby contain 130 Acres . Now by that Act , the whole Marsh is vested as to one Moiety in Richard Hill , as Assigne , of Vanderdelf the Dutchman , who had dreined it , and for his Pains was to have one half and he agreed with Participators among whom Stepkins was one , and had 53 Acres , and particularly this Land. So that the Dean of Pauls must derive a Title from this Act , if he will have the Land. But we shall shew how they colour their Possession . Afterwards Richard Hill , II. Nov. 37 H. VIII . he doth make a Lease to the Dean and Chapters Miller , and that for Thirty Four Years , wherein you will exactly see the Boundaries of the Act are pursued . After he had leased it thus to the Dean's Miller , he passeth away the Inheritance to Thomas Stepkins , in time , 16. Apr. 6 Ed. VI. Mercellus Hall the Miller , after Stepkins had obtained the Inheritance upon Agreement between them gets a Lease from Stepkins of 128 Years of the Lands in Question , as you may see by the Bounds they are exactly the same , and this was in time 20. Apr. 6 Ed. VI. So the Miller had now Ground on both sides the way that is called Cock-hill . On the East side by Lease from Hill , on the West side by Lease from Stepkins . Then in point of time we shall come to shew the Lease made to Roper . For Marcellus Hall after he had taken this long Lease from Stepkins 30 Nov. 2 & 3 Phil. & Mar. doth demise the Land in Question to Richard Roper for Twenty Four Years : And we shall shew that in all the Queen's Time Roper was Tenant . Then Iasper Hill , who was the Heir of Richard Hill , in 12 Nov. 5 & 6 Ph. & M. by Deed and afterwards 3 Eliz. by Fine and common Recovery , conveys all these Lands particularly by Name , and releaseth them to Iohn and Macheline Stepkin , and the Heirs of Iohn , and so lodged the Inheritance in the Stepkinses , all but that which was thus out in a long Lease to Marcellus Hall. We shall prove that before Richard Hill died , he entred into a Statute to Vivold and Salvago for a great Sum of Money ; and this Statute comes to be extended 3 Eliz. and there this Land notwithstanding these Leases , are siezed and extended as Hill's Lands . We shall shew all this Land upon a Commission of Sewers had a Survey taken of it . When we have shewn all these Records , and proved that this is Marsh Ground , and not a Witness of theirs , but must acknowledge it to be Marsh Ground ; ( for that place of Foxes-Lane , was raised at least Nine Foot , and so proportionably was the rest of the Ground : And it appears at this day that upon a high Tide , all their Sellars are overflown ) I think then you will make no doubt , whether this be our Land or no ; and to proceed in this Order that I have opened , we will first shew you the Survey . There was one thing I forgot about the Eleven Acres . — Mr. Serj. Stringer . What is it you read first Sir ? L. C. I. What do you begin with Mr. Attorney ? Mr. Att. Gen. Your Lordship observes they shew a Lease from Dean Fecknam , the 10 Dec. 2 & 3. of Ph. & M. Now on the 22. Dec. in the same Year , we shall shew Marcellus Hall by Lease to Carter , butts it upon the East side of the Mill. L. C. I. I took Notes the last time of your Evidence , and it began in H. 8 . time . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , when we come to our Title , we shall go on in the same Method we did then ; but now we are only shewing where the Lands are . L. C. I. Go your own way . Clerk [ Reads . ] This Indenture made the 22th day of December , in the Second and Third Years of the Reigns of our Soveraign Lord and Lady Philip and Mary , by the Grace of God , King and Queen of England , Spain , France , both the Cicilies , Ierusalem , and Ireland , Defenders of the Faith ; Arch-Dukes of Austria ; Dukes of Burgundy Millain and Brabant ; Counts of Haspurg , Flanders and Tyroll ; between Marcellus Hall of Ratcliff , Miller of the one Part , and Iohn Carter of Ratcliff , Oar-maker of Stebunheath , of the other Part ; Witnesseth , That the said Marcellus Hall hath Demised , Granted , and to Farm Lett unto the said Iohn Carter , that his Wharf lying in Ratcliff , where late the Mill stood , called Ratcliff Mill , adjoyning on the West upon the East side of the Mill Ditch , alias Mill Dam , reaching from thence Eastward 30 Foot ; and from the North-east Corner of the said Mill-Dam , Southward to the River of Thames 20 Foot ; to have and to hold all and whole the said Wharf , as is before specified , with all Commodities and Profits belonging to the same , to the said Iohn Carter , to his Heirs , Executors , and Assigns , from the Feast of St. Mary the Virgin , immediately following the Date of these Presents , until the End and Term of 30 Years . L. C. I. This Lease was Read the last time . Mr. Serj. Stringer . Yes , it was so my Lord. Clerk Reads . — to be fully compleat and ended , yielding and paying therefore for the same , unto the said Marcellus Hall , his Heirs , Executors , and Assigns , Ten Shillings of lawful Money of England , yearly ; that is to say , at the Feast of the Annunciation of St. Mary the Virgin : And if it happen the said Rent to be behind and unpaid at the said Feast , in part or in all by the space of one Fortnight , and lawfully asked of the said Iohn Carter , his Executors and Assigns , then it shall be lawful to the said Marcellus Hall , his Heirs , Executors , and Assigns , to Distrain for his said Rent so being behind , and the Distress so taken , to keep until such time as the said Rent with the Arrearages be fully satisfied and paid . — L. C. I. For how many Years is that ? Mr. Att. Gen. Thirty Years . L. C. I. What is demised by this Lease ? Mr. Att. Gen. Read the particulars agen . Sir I. Trevor . My Lord , we would gladly know where they had this Lease , that so it may appear whence it came , for we know they have an excellent Art at finding out of Deeds . L. C. I. Ay , come , shew where you had it . Let me see it . Mr. Att. Gen. We did produce it at the last Tryal , and at the first too . L. C. I. But that this Jury knows nothing of , and they call for some account of it on the other side . Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Knowles , do you know any thing of that Deed ? When did you first see it ? Mr. Williams . And where had you it ? Knowles . My Lord , I had it in a Garrot , in a kind of a Nook , about six Foot long , and three Foot and an half wide , in my own House , in the Garrot among other Writings . L. C. I. How came you to have them ? Knowles . As I was Executor to Winterburn . Mr. Powis . Pray Mr. Knowles , will you tell upon what occasion you looked there and found them ? Mr. Serj. Pemb. Ay , pray give an Account of the whole . Knowles . My Lord , upon the Second of August , 1682. was the first time I ever saw my Lady Ivy to my Knowledge ; and she was informed by one Mr. Viccarer , that I had several Writings of Winterburn's ; I told her I had so , and my Lady desired me to search among them , if there were any Writings that concerned Stepkins's Estate ; I told her it would take up a Months time to look them all over , for there was a great Quantity of them . She said , I would do her a great kindness if I would look ; I promised her I would ; and upon the Fourth of September I think I found the Deed. L. C. I. How was Winterburn concerned ? Mr. Att. Gen. They have shewn that he was owner of the Land once . Mr. Williams . Did you ever read over that Lease ? L. C. I. I ask you again how was Winterburn concerned ? Knowles . He was Partner with Wright , who sold the Estate to Mr. Neale . Mr. Soll. Gen. Wright sold to Neale , Winterburn died , and this Man was his Executor , and so he came to the Writings . Mr. Att. Gen. But pray Mr. Knowles tell us , were these Writings ever shewn to Mr. Neale ? Knowles . In the year 1669. when Mr. Neale bought this Estate of my Uncle Wright , the Writings were all to be looked over ; and upon Mr. Neale's request , all the Writings were sent to his Council , a Gentleman in Grays-Inn , one Cage , I think his Name was , or something like it ; and there they were left Three Months , and I believe in my Soul that Deed was among them . Mr. Att. Gen. Were they brought back agen ? Knowles . There were Two Hampers brought back . Mr. Att. Gen. Had you any Discourse with Mr. Neale about this Business ? Knowles . I was Arrested upon his Account in an Action of 2000 l. and he presently after came and got me off from that Action , and told me , Mr. Knowles , I am sorry you were Arrested upon my Account ; so am I too , Sir , said I ; said he , I do believe really you found that Deed ; I did so , Sir , said I ; But , says he , pray will you answer me one Question seriously ; that I will , two or three if I can Sir , said I , says he , did not my Lady Ivy or Banister foist the Deed into your House ; no , said I , for before ever I saw either of them I had seen that Deed ; then I am undone , says he . Mr. Williams . Who was by pray , when this Discourse past between you and Mr. Neale ? Knowles . There was none but he and I. Mr. Williams . It was at the Tavern ; Mr. Neale , I suppose , will not deny this . L. C. I. Will he not ? Will you take his word for it ? Knowles . I do say , I found that Deed there . L. C. I. Read it , read the Demise . But Mr. Knowles , let me ask you a Question or two ; as I understood , you said my Lady Ivy desired you to look among Winterburn's Writings , for Deeds that concern'd Stepkins's Estate ? Knowles Yes , my Lord. L. C. I. Where was that ? Knowles . That was at her House . L. C. I. And when did you find this Deed ? Knowles . I found the Deed in September , before any body came to look with me , or was in the place with me . L. C. I. Was there any body with you when you found the Deed ? Knowles . No. L. C. I. Then you found it your self . Knowles . Yes . L. C. I. Did you read it ? Knowles . I did the Outside , what was I concerned further . L. C. I. Nay , do not be angry ; when thou art most calm , thou speakest so fast , a Man can scarce understand thee ; answer my question fairly ; you say you read it , what part was it you did read ? Knowles . The Backside , the Outside . Mr. Williams . There is nothing writ upon the Outside . L. C. I. How did you gather by reading the Outside , that it concerned my Lady Ivy ? Knowles . I only read Stepkins's Name : L. C. I. Stepkins's Name you say . Knowles . What Deed do you ask me upon ? L. C. I. That Deed , the only Deed you have seen here . What is your Christian Name ? Knowles . Stephen Knowles . L. C. I. If I mistook you I beg your Pardon ; our Question is concerning this very Deed now Shewn to you . Knowles . I thought you had meant the Lease of 128 Years . L. C. I. Well then , let that pass for a mistake ; I would know of you now something concerning this Deed. Look upon it — ( which he did — ) upon your Oath when saw you that Deed first ? Knowles . I cannot say what day it was . L. C. I. But , look you , if I mistook you not , ( if I did , I ask your Pardon agen ) Did not you say , you found that very Deed among a great many other Writings of Winterburn's in a Room , so many Foot long , and so many Foot Wide , in your Garrot ? Did not you say , that in time you saw my Lady Ivy first upon the 2d of August , 82. that you found that Deed in September following ? And did not you tell us , that you did believe in your Conscience , that in the Year 1669. Mr. Neale had this Writing among others , sent to the Chamber of such a Gentleman in Grays-Inn ; that they remained there Three Months , and then were brought back again to you ; and you believe in your Conscience this was one of them ? And did not you say , when I asked you , how you came to know this belonged to my Lady Ivy ; you said , because my Lady Ivy had spoke to you to look if there was any thing belonging to Stepkins , and you read the Outside of the Deed , and found Stepkins's Name , and so you knew it to concern her ? Did not you say all this ? Knowles . I believe I did . L. C. I. Now tell me then by the Outside of that Deed , how thou can'st tell that belonged to Stepkin's , for if thou can'st , thou art more crafty than any body here I believe ? Knowles . I thought it had been the long Lease , for that has Stepkins on the Outside . L. C. I. Well , let that pass for a mistake ; we must now begin again upon a new matter : when first saw you that Deed ? Knowles . In September , 1682. L. C. I. How do you know that ? Knowles . I put my Hand to it . L. C. I. Did you read the Inside of that Deed ? Knowles . No , I did not . L. C. I. Look you then , we ask you how you came to know it was a Deed belonging to Stepkins ? Knowles . I read the Backside , and put my Hand it . L. C. I. How came you to put your Hand to this Deed as belonging to Stepkins , when you never looked into the Deed ? Knowles . When I found this Deed to have written upon it Marcellus Hall , I did believe it was something that concerned the Stepkins's . L. C. I. Let us see the Deed now — ( which was done ) — You say that was the Reason upon your Oath ? Knowles . Yes , it was . L. C. I. Then look upon it again , and do not be surprized , but let us have truth come out in God's Name . Was that the Reason ? Knowles . It was my Lord. L. C. I. I would fain see Mr. Sutton , I have a question to ask him . Mr. Att. Gen. Here he is , my Lord. L. C. I. Give Mr. Sutton his Oath — ( which was done ) — Look upon the Outside of that Deed , and upon your Oath tell us whose Hand Writing that is . Sutton . All but the word ( Lect. ) is my Hand Writing . L. C. I. Are not the words Marcellus Hall all of your Hand Writing ? Sutton . It is . L. C. I. Then how could'st thou know this to belong to the Stepkins's by the word Marcellus Hall , when you first discovered this Deed in September , 1682. and you found it by your self , and put your hand to it ; and yet that Marcellus Hall be written by Mr. Sutton , which must be after that time . Mr. Att. Gen. He says he knows it , because he put his Hand to it , I suppose he read somewhat of the Inside . L. C. I. He said the Backside , the Outside ; he did not read the Inside . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , I desire our Evidence may not be anticipated . L. C. I. Mr. Attorney , I would not anticipate your Evidence , but I must tell you by the way , your Evidence anticipate themselves : And this fellow Knowles , without any more adoe , has proved himself an errant notorious Knave . And if your Evidence will blunder and spoil themselves , I cannot tell how to help it . I knew , as soon as I saw the Deed , that that was Sutton's hand ; I know his hand , as well as that you are Mr. Attorney . Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray , My Lord , give me leave to ask him a question , which I hope may clear all this matter , for it is plain the Man is mistaken . L. C. I. Mistaken ? Yes , I assure you very grosly . Ask him what Questions you will ; but if he should Swear as long as Sir Iohn Falstasse fought , I would never believe a word he says . Mr. Sol. Gen. Did you look into the middle of any one of the Deeds . Knowles . Yes , I did . Mr. Sol. Gen. Can you tell which you looked into the inside of , and which you did not ? Knowles . The Lease and some others I did , but I cannot particularly tell . Mr. Sol. Gen. Then , my Lord , here is the Case : Here are multitudes of Deeds , and a Man looks on the Inside of some , and the outside of others ; is it possible for a Man to speak positively to all the particular Deeds , without being liable to mistake ? L. C. I. Mr. Sollicitor you say well , if he had said I looked upon the outside of some , and the inside of others , and where ever I saw either on the outside , or in the inside the Name of Stepkins , or Marcellus Hall ; I layd them by , and thought they might concern my Lady Ivy , that had been something . But when he comes to be asked about this particular Deed , and he upon his Oath shall declare that to be the Reason why he thought it belonged to Stepkins , because of the Name of Marcellus Hall upon the outside , and never read any part of the Inside , when Sutton swears Marcellus Hall was written by him , what would you have a Man say ? Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord , I have but this to say ; if there were never a Deed delivered by Knowles to my Lady Ivy or Sutton where Marcellus Hall's name was written on the backside of it , but by Mr. Sutton , I confess it were a strong Objection : But where there are other Deeds , and a great many , a Man may easily be mistaken . It is impossible for any Man in a Multitude of Deeds that he finds among a great Parcel , and delivers many of them out to take it upon his Memory particularly which he looked on the inside of , and which he looked on the backside or outside of . L. C. I. Did not he give it as a particular Reason of his Knowledge , that they belonged to my Lady Ivy : For wherever he saw Marcellus Hall , or Stepkins , he thought that belonged to her . Mr. Sol. Gen. Wherever he saw those Names , that is , either in the inside or out side . L. C. I. Under Favour , Sir , he did not say so ; but positively said , he knew it by that Name . And you shall never argue me into a belief that it is impossible for a Man to give a true Reason , if he have one , for his Remembrance of a thing . Mr. Sol. Gen. I beg your pardon , my Lord , as I apprehended him , he swore he looked into the inside of some , and the outside of others , and there were a great many of them . L. C. I. And I beg your Pardon , Mr. Sollicitor , I know what he swore as well as any Body else : If indeed he had sworn cautiously and with care , it might have been taken for a slip or a mistake . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , we must leave it upon its own Weight ; but we are not come to our Title yet : I have the Deed in my Hand , which is a very old one , and therefore needs not such exact Proof . He is mistaken we do own it , and I must appeal to the Court whether a Man may not be mistaken in a great multitude of Deeds . L. C. I. Well , now after all this is done , let him give an account how he came to know this to belong to Stepkins , or my Lady Ivy , if he can . I speak it not to prejudice your Cause , but only to have the Truth come out . But for the Witness that swears , it may affect him I assure you . Give him the Deed , and let him look upon it — Look upon the inside , and look upon the outside too . Knowles . I believe , my Lord , upon better Consideration I have read this Deed before now . L. C. I. Very well , and yet you swore the contrary just now . Knowles . I was in amaze , my Lord. L. C. I. I am sure thou sworest wildly . Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray what Deed did you take it to be at first ? Knowles . The Lease of 128 Years . L. C. I. Pr'ythee read it now to us . Knowls . Reads — This Indenture made the 22th Day of Dec. — L. C. I. Between whom ? Knowls . Reads — Between Marcellus Hall of Ratcliff , Miller , of the one part , and Iohn Carter , Oar-maker , of the other part , witnesseth that the said Marcellus Hall hath demised , granted , and to Farm letten to the said Iohn Carter , all that Wharf lying in Ratcliff , where late a Mill stood , called Ratcliff-Mill — L. C. I. Can you say you ever read so much before ? Knowles . I believe I did . L. C. I. When was it ? Knowles . In Septemb. 1682. L. C. I. Then you read it before you shewed it to my Lady Ivy. Knowles . Yes , my Lord. L. C. I. And you found what the Contents were by Reading ? Knowles . Yes , my Lord. L. C. I. Did you read it through ? Knowles . No ; I did not I believe . L. C. I. How far do you think you read ? Knowles . As far as I have read now . L. C. I. Did you find any thing there of the Name of Stepkins ? Knowles . No , not in that I did not . L. C. I. I would desire to know of you who it was that came to my Lady Ivy to inform her you had such and such Writings ? Knowles . It was one Mr. Vicarer , about a Tryal that was to have been two or three Years ago , at the Bar of the Court of King's Bench here , but the Cause did not then go on ; after that , Mr. Vicarer did tell my Lady , that one Knowles had a great Company of Writings that were Winterburn's , and she desired him that he would please to talk with me , to see If I could do her any Kindness or Service in any of those Deeds . The first time that I saw her was the Second of August , as near as I can remember , and then I told her , I was Executor to Winterburn , and had a great many Writings ; said she , do you know the Hand of Stepkins ? if you do , and can find any Writings that relate to Stepkins you will do me a great Kindness . L. C. I. Did she name any body else to you ? Knowles . She named one Lun , and one Barker , and one Holder , and several others ; I do not remember all . L. C. I. Was there Mention made of one Collett ? Knowles . No. L. C. I. Was there of one Donne ? Knowles . Of one Lun there was . L. C. I. Of one Fecknam ? Knowles . No. L. C. I. Of one May ? Knowles . No. L. C. I. Of one Ioan Hall ? Knowles . No. L. C. I. Was there any mention made of any Hall ? Knowles . Yes there was . L. C. I. What Hall did she speak of ? Knowles . I am not certain whether any Hall was named or no. Mr. Att. Gen. He says , he is sure there was of Stephens , and several others , but not of any Hall. L. C. I. He does so , Mr. Attorney . But now I would ask him this Question ; If there were no mention of any Hall , how came you to find out that this Lease from Marcellus Hall to Carter , should affect Stepkins or my Lady Ivy. Knowles . My Lord , I will give you an account of that . L. C. I. Ay , do if you can . Knowles . This was at the first time that I saw my Lady Ivy , that this Discourse was between us ; upon another Discourse at another time , Hall was mentioned to me . L. C. I. How many Names did she tell you of at first ? Knowles . I cannot remember them all . L. C. I. He remembers as punctually as can be the Second of August to be the first time that ever he saw my Lady Ivy , and then she spoke to him of looking for Writings that concerned Stepkins , and Lun , and Barker ; and he remembers such a day , the Fourth of Sept. 1682. he found the Deeds , but he will not give any account how he came to know by Hall's Name that this belonged to Stepkins . I would fain know when you first heard of the Name of the Halls ? Knowles . It was all within a Months time . L. C. I. Who was it first spoke to you to enquire about the Halls ? Knowles . My Lady Ivy spoke to me about Hall when I gave her an account of some Deeds I had found . L. C. I. How often did you look over the Writings ? Knowles . Several times . L. C. I. The first time did you give my Lady Ivy an Account that you had found any thing ? Knowles . Yes , I gave her an Account of the Lease of 128 Years . L. C. I. Did you find nothing else but that ? Knowles . Yes . L. C. I. What did you find else ? Knowles . Several : I cannot give an account of all . L. C. I. Did you find that Lease or this Deed first ? Knowles . The Lease . L. C. I. When did you first find this Deed ? Knowles . The Fourth of September I found the Lease , and within Fourteen or Fifteen Days after I found the rest . L. C. I. How many deeds did you find out ? Knowles . Half a Score . L. C. I. Who was by when you found the Deeds the second time ? Knowles . When I had found the Lease for 128 Years , I laid it by , and looked further for other things , and found a Mortgage which concerned my self , and that made me more eager to look for what might concern me besides , that I was not so careful as I should have been of the Lease of 128 Years , but mixed it among the Writings again , but I told my Lady I had found such a Deed , and she ordered Mr. Banister to help me to find it again . L. C. I. Pr'ythee answer me once more ; Who first put you in mind of looking after the Halls ? Knowles . My Lady Ivy. L. C. I. Was any body by when she spoke to you to look after the Halls ? Knowles . Yes ; Mr. Banister was by . L. C. I. Who else ? Knowles . Several of my Ladys Servants . L. C. I. Name some of them that were by . Knowles . There was Mr. Banister's Wife and his Daughter by . L. C. I. What day was it my Lady Ivy first spoke to you to look after the Halls ? Knowles . Within a Week after I first saw her . L. C. I. Was it before you found the Lease you speak of . Knowles . Yes , it was before . L. C. I. How comes it to pass then , that you did not find it at the first looking , which was the Fourth of September , when you found that Lease you say ? Mr. Att. Gen. We mustly lay aside the Testimony of this Man. L. C. I. Ay , so you had need . Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray leave the Deed in Court , we shall have Mr. Neale too busie with it else . Mr. Att. Gen. We shall desire your Lordship to consider all the use we make of this Deed , is to prove , that the Mill was removed to another place . L. C. I. I do not know what it proves , but if you had kept your Witness Knowles in the Mill , I think you had done better than brought him hither . Mr. Att. Gen. Swear Mr. Banister and Mr. Clerk — which was done . Mr. Sol. Gen. Did you examine that with the Roll , Sir ? shewing him a Paper . Mr. Clerk. Yes , Sir , I did examine that with the Book that Mr. Northy shewed me , I think they say he is Steward of the Mannor of Stepney ; he read in the Book , and I read the Copy ; and it is a true Copy of a Survey of that Mannor taken 25 Eliz. Mr. Att. Gen. I heard say you have the Books of the Mannor here , pray let them be produced . Mr. Williams . You are merry Mr. Attorney , if it is a true Copy pray let it be read . Clerk ( Reads . ) The Dean of St. Pauls holds freely of Fee one Field , containing by estimation L. C. I. Who is Lord of the Mannor of Stepney now ? Mr. Powis . My Lady Wentworth is Lady of the Mannor . Clerk ( Reads . ) The Dean of St. Pauls holds L. C. I. This bounds it on the East on the Dean and Chapter of Pauls Lands , and so doth you no good . Mr. Williams . Let them go on , my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. With submission these are our exact Boundaries . L. C. I. Well go on . Mr. Att. Gen. We shall go on , and with Submission these Bounds exactly agree with the Bounds that are set by the Act of Parliament for draining the Marsh. Here is nothing that we can see that they can claim but a Mill and Bake-house , and they are all bounded on the West by Wall Marsh , and the Linches are bounded in part upon the North , and in part upon the West , and there was a little part of the Marsh did run into the North Bounds . But now we shall come to our Evidence , and first we shall shew the Act of Parliament . Which being A o 22 o H. 8. was read . Mr. Att. Gen. Next we shall shew Richard Hill's Conveyance by Mortgage , to Vivold and Salvago . Which Indenture of Mortgage was read . Clerk ( Reads . ) This Indenture made the Eighth day of November , in the 32th year of our Soveraign Lord King Henry the Eighth , between Richard Hill Citizen and Mercer of London of the one party , and Anthony Vivold , and Henry Salvago , Merchants , of of the other party ; Witnesseth , That where the said Richard before time was indebted unto the said Anthony Vivold , and H. Salvago in the Sum of 560 l. of Lawful Money of England , whereof they of their free will have pardoned 280 l. The said Richard Hill by these Presents All that Moiety of Marsh Ground being 130 Acres , lying and being that is to say , from Ratcliff Mill that joins to the Hilly Linch to Ratcliff Town , on the Party of the East , to Grash Mill by the Hermitage , on the party of the West , on the High Way , leading from London to Ratcliff , on the party of the North , and on the River of Thames , on the party of the South given and assured to the said Richard Hill , by Authority of Parliament in the 27th year of the most Noble Reign to have and to hold — Mr. Att. Gen. This doth vest the Lands in question , with others in Vivold and Salvago , as a Security for their Money . Mr. Sol. Gen. Now we shall shew a Lease from Hill to Marcellus Hall. Clerk ( Reads . ) This Indenture made the Eleventh day of November , in the Thirty Seventh year of the Reign of Henry the Eighth ; between Richard Hill , Citizen and Mercer of London , of the one partie , and Marcellus Hall of Ratcliff , Miller of the other partie ; Witnesseth , That the said Richard Hill , for the sum of Six pounds of lawful Money of England , to him in hand paid , at the ensealing and delivery hereof , whereof the said Richard Hill hereby acknowledgeth himself to be fully satisfied contented and paid , and whereof he doth clearly acquit and discharge the said Marcellus Hall , his Executors and Administrators by these Presents , hath Demised , Granted , and to Farm Letten , and by these Presents doth Demise , Grant , and to Farm Lett unto the said Marcellus Hall a parcel of Marsh Ground , lying and being at the East end of the Marsh that Butts on Ratcliff Hilly Marsh Wall-bank , or Wall belonging and the Well Shadwell , containing by estimation Eleven Acres and an Half , more or less , abutting on the Thames Wall , on the party of the South , to the Lands called the Deans Linches , on the party of the North , and on the Wall that reaches from the Linches to the Island , by the Pond on the West . with all the Foreland and Soyle All which Marsh Land is in the Parish of Stebunheath To have and to hold the said Marsh Land Foreland and Soyle to the said Marcellus Hall , from the Feast of the Annunciation of St. Mary the Virgin next coming , for Thirty and Four Years — Mr. Att. Gen. This was a Lease made to their Miller , and contains Eleven Acres and half an Acre , which we shall shew is just exactly the contents of our Land. Next then we shall come to the Conveyance made to Thomas Stepkin , which will bring us to our Title . L.C.I. Read the Reservation of that Lease . Clerk ( Reads ) Yielding and paying therefore yearly , and every year unto the said Richard Hill , his Executors and Assigns , Three pounds of good and lawful Money of England , at four Terms of the year , that is to say , the Feast of the Nativity of St. Iohn the Baptist , St. Michael the Archangel , the Birth of our Lord , and the Annunciation of St. Mary the Virgin. Mr. S. Pemberton . Pray , my Lord , we desire they may give some account of this Lease where they had it , and how they came by it . M. Att. Gen. You have had it in your hands , you see what it is . Mr. S. Pemberton . Yes , and therefore we desire to know some thing about it , because we find Knowles hand to it . Mr. Att. Gen. We can give you a better account of it than you think for , but that will let you into an hours wrangle more , which is all you have to say for yourselves . We have it , disprove it . Mr. S. Pemberton . You have it we see , but remember you will give no account where you had it . But then we desire to ask Mr. Knowles a Question . Whether my Lady Ivy was with him — Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , we desire we may go on and give our Evidence intire , they would fain break in upon us , and take up another hour in quarrelling with our Witness . When we hear them in their time offer to impeach the Validity of the Deed , then will be our time to justifie it ; and I doubt not but we shall give a satisfactory account of it . Pray will you give an account of the Deed you snap'd up the last time . L.C.I. Nay , nay , Gentlemen we cannot take up our time in your Dialogues and little heats . Do you not hinder them , and we shall see they shall not hinder you when it comes to your turn . Clerk. This Deed has been read for the Plaintiff and Defendant , and is marked so . Mr. Att. Gen. It has been twice read before . L.C.I. Well will you go Gentlemen . Mr. Sol. Gen. Then we shall shew this Deed Poll next . Clerk. This also is marked to have been read twice . ( Reads ) This is dated , 16 Apr. in the 6th year of King Edward the Sixth . To all Faithful People to whom this present Writing shall come , I Richard Hill Citizen and Mercer of London send Greeting in our Lord God Everlasting . Know ye that I the said Richard Hill , for the sum of One hundred and thirty pounds of lawful Money of England , by Thomas Stepkins , alias Stipkin , of the Parish of St. Mary Matfellen , alias Whitechappel , in the County of Middlesex Beer-brewer , unto me the said Richard Hill in hand paid , wherewith I confess my self to be well and truly satisfied . L.C.I. Upon whose account is it that my Brother Gregory comes here . Mr. S. Stringer . My Lord , Mr. Baron Gregory was desired by the Plaintiff to be here , and as soon as we come to our Reply , we shall ask him some Questions , if he please to stay , we will dispatch him so soon as we can . Mr. Att. Gen. Nay rather then trouble Mr. Baron to stay , we yield he should be Examined now . Mr. Bar. Gregory . I am not in so much hast my Lord , but I can stay a while , and not break in upon the middle of an Evidence for me . L.C.I. If you please , they consent you may be Examined , and they may be long . Mr. Bar. Gregory . I would not interrupt the course of Evidence . L.C.I. Nay we will take you at your word , but if it be long , pray remember we would have eased you , but you Complemented yourself out of it ; now you are like to abide-by it awhile , I assure you Brother . Go on . Clerk. ( Reads ) And do therefore acquit and exonerate the said Thomas Stepkin , alias Stipkin , his have given , enfeoffed , sold , granted , and by this my present writing confirmed , all those my four and twenty Acres and an half of Marsh Land , measured by the Rod or Pole , lying in Wapping Marsh Three Acres of which are lying adjoyning on the west side of the Mill that butts on the Hilly Bank , or way leading to Ratcliff Town , called Ratcliff Mill , with the Bank or Wall thereto belonging , and the Well adjoyning to the way that goeth up to the Linches called Shadwel , lying in the east end of the Marsh , and all the next piece west adjoyning to the same , containing by estimation one Acre , and the Pond and two Acres adjoyning on the west side , six Acres lying in the bottom of the Hilly Linches , adjoyning Northwest on the Wall that reaches from the Linches to the Island by the Pond . All which Eleven Acres and an half of Marsh-Land , are in the holding of Marcellus Hall Miller , and also the Bank or Wall Flood or Pond adjoyning west on the said Eleven Acres and an half ; containing by estimation of measure two Acres ; and also all that parcel late divided into two , and now or late in the Tenure of Richard Hill Butcher , containing by estimation of measure six Acres ; and also all that parcel West adjoyning to the six Acres , which I the said Richard Hill hold in my own hand ; and also that is to say , all that parcel with the Bank or Wall Island and Pond , containing by estimation of measure five Acres , which last Thirteen Acres I bought of , and had conveyed to me and my Heirs , from one Iohn St All which four and twenty Acres and an half , more or less , of Marsh Land , abutteth on the Thames Wall , on the part of the South , to the Lands of the Dean and Chapter of the Cathedral Church of St. Paul , called the Linches , on the part of the North , on the aforesaid Mill on the part of the East , and on Twenty Acres of the said Thomas Stepkin on the part of the west ; and also all the Thames Bank or Wall belonging to the said four and twenty Acres and an half of Marsh Land , which said piece or parcel of Wall , doth abut on the South-end of the said on part of the East , and on the Bank or Wall in the occupying of William Knevet , on the part of the west . All which Marsh Land Bank or Wall , are in the East end of Waping Marsh , abutting on the aforesaid Mill and Hilly Bank aforesaid , in the way leading to the Town of Ratcliff aforesaid . And which Four and twenty Acres are part and parcel of One hundred and thirty Acres which was heretofore continually for the most part overflown and drowned , with the water of the River of Thames , and all and singular Messuages , Cottages , Houses , Edifices , Orchards , Tofts Foreland and Soyl , which were the said Thomas Stepkinses before the overflowing and all and singular Messuages , Edifices , Cottages Cellars , Sollars , Orchards Woods , and Underwoods , and all other the rest of my Heriditaments whatsoever , in the Parish and Mannor of Stepney , in the County of Middlesex . Mr. Att. Gen. Now we shall produce a Lease from Stepkins to Marcellus Hall. Mr. Serj. Pembleton . I hope they will give some account of this Deed first . Mr. Att. Gen. When you say any thing against it , Mr. Serjeant , we will ; but we desire now to go on with our Evidence . Read that Deed. Clerk [ Reads . ] This has been read before , and is marked . This Indenture made the Twentieth Day of April in the Sixth Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lord King Edward the Sixth , by the Grace of God King of England , France , and Ireland : Betwixt Thomas Stepkin , otherwise Stipkin , of the Parish of St. Mary Mackfellon in the County of Middlesex without Algate Beer Brewer , of the one part , and Marcellus Hall of Ratcliff , Miller of the other part , Witnesseth that the said Thomas Stepkin , otherwise Stipkin , for the Sum of 50 l. of lawful Money of England to the said Thomas Stepkin , otherwise Stipkin by the said Marcellus Hall at the ensealing hereof , well and truly paid and satisfied , and of the same doth clearly acquit and discharge the said Marcellus Hall his Executors , and Assignes , and every of them by these Presents hath demised , granted , betaken , and to farm letten ; and by these Presents doth demise , grant , betake , and to Farm lett unto the said Marcellus Hall , all those his Parcels of Marsh-land lying and joining on the West side of Hilly-bank , or way called Ratcliff-way and the Well adjoining to the way that goeth up to the Lynches , called Shadwell , lying in the East end of the Marsh , containing by Estimation of Measure three Acres and an half , and all the next piece West , adjoining to the same , containing by Estimation of Measure Six Acres and the Pond , and Two Acres adjoining on the West side of the Six Acres lying on the Bottom of the Hilly-Lynches adjoining North-West on the Wall , which reacheth from the Lynches to the Island by the Pond , all which eleven Acres and an half little more or less abutteth on the Thames Wall on the party of the South , to the Dean and Chapter of the Cathedral Church of St. Paul , called the Lynches on the party of the North , and on the Wall by the Pond on the party of the West , and also all the Thames Wall belonging to the said Eleven Acres and an half of Meadow or Marsh-land , which said Piece or Parcel of Bank or Wall , doth abutt on the South End of the aforesaid Hilly-bank , or way reaching to the East side of it , which leadeth to Ratcliff Town on the party of the East , and on the Wall in the Occupation of Iohn Everard on the Party of the West , and also all the Foreland and Soyl down to the Low-Water-Mark of the River of Thames belonging to the Premises , all which in the East End of Wapping-Marsh , abutting on the aforesaid Mill , and the Mill Hilly-bank or way leading as aforesaid in the Parish and Mannor of Stebunheath , otherwise Stepney , in the County of Middlesex , and now in the holding of the said Marcellus Hall , to have and to hold all the said Parcels of Marsh-land , Foreland , and Soyle and every part and Parcel thereof to the said Marcellus Hall his Executors , and Assignes , from the Feast of the Annunciation of St. Mary the Virgin before the Date hereof , to the End and Term of One Hundred Twenty and Eight Years , thence next ensuing , yielding — Mr. Sol. Gen. Read the Proviso . L. C. I. Read the Reservation of the Rent . Clerk reads . Yielding and paying therefore yearly for the same , to the said Thomas Stepkins his Heirs , and Assignes one Pepper Corn at the Feast of the Annunciation — Mr. Sol. Gen. Now read the Proviso . Clerk Reads . And the said Marcellus Hall for himself , his Executors , Assignes , Covenanteth and granteth to and with the said Thomas Stepkins , his Heirs and Assignes ; that he the said Marcellus Hall , his Executors and Assignes shall and will bear all manner of Charges — And it is further covenanted , granted , and agreed between the said Parties , that it shall not be lawful for the said Marcellus Hall , his Executors or Assignes , to alienate or assigne this present Term of Years , or any part thereof , without the special License or Consent of the said Thomas Stepkins his Heirs and Assignes — Mr. Williams . Pray , my Lord , will you give me leave to ask a Question of Mr. Banister ? Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , he has not been examined yet , they cannot , under Favour , ask him any Questions . Mr. Williams . You have sworn him , and so he is under an Oath , and we may doubtless examine him as your Witness to this Deed that you have read . Is that your Name , Sir ? Shewing him the Deed of 16 Apr. Banister . This is my Name written by my own Hand . Mr. Williams . When did you write your Hand there , Mr. Banister ? Banister . The 16th of April , 1682. Mr. Williams . Pray , Sir , look upon it again . Banister . This is my hand , and I writ it my self when the Deed was found , I writ a Paper of such Deeds as were found at the same Instant of time . Mr. Williams . And you writ it when you found it ? Banister . I writ that Name at that Instant of Time. Mr. S. Pemberton . When was it do you say ? Banister . The 16th of Sept. 1682. Mr. Williams . Are you sure of it ? Banister . Yes ; I am sure of it . Mr. S. Pemberton . Just now it was April . Banister . It was in September , 1682. I writ this Paper at the same time . L. C. I. Where did you write this Name to this Deed ? Banister . At Mr. Knowles's House . L. C. I. When was the first time that you saw that Deed ? Banister . The very same Day that I writ my Name and this Paper . L. C. I. Did he find the Deed or you ? Let me see it . which was done . Banister . He had found that Deed before , but had mislaid it , and desired my Assistance to find it again . L. C. I. Where did you find it ? Banister . In a Garret in Mr. Knowles's House . Mr. Sol. Gen. Were there not a great many Deeds there ? Banister . Yes ; there were a great many . L. C. I. Pr'y thee look upon it again , and consider what thou sayst . Banister . This is my Name . L. C. I. Very well ; and how came thy Name there ? Banister . This is the very Deed I looked upon at that Time. L. C. I. Where did you first see that Deed ? Banister . I was at the finding of it in a Garret at Mr. Knowles's House . L. C. I. That was in Sept. 1682. you say . Banister . Yes , in Sept. 1682. I never saw it before . L. C. I. Pray who are Parties to that deed ? Mr. Williams . My Lord , it is the Purchase of the Inheritance . L. C. I. It is so , and how should that come to be in the Possession of Knowles ? Banister . I never saw it before that time . L. C. I. Read it again . Clerk. [ Reads . ] — This is dated the 16th of April in the Sixth Year of Edward the Sixth . To all faithful — Mr. Sol. Gen. Certainly , my Lord , he is under a Mistake . L. C. I. Ay , so he is sure enough , but a very foul one upon my Word : But let us see if we can bring him out of it . Mr. Banister , let me ask you a Question . Banister . Yes , my Lord , if you please . L. C. I. Then pray mind what I say , and consider of it . The 16th of September , 1682. was the time that you went on purpose to look for Deeds at Mr. Knowles's House ? Banister . I was there on the 7th Day of September , and that was the first Day that ever I came into Mr. Knowles's House in my Life . L. C. I. There were some Deeds , it seems , that Mr. Knowles had found before . Banister . So Mr. Knowles said . L. C. I. What became of those Deeds he had found before ? Banister . As he told me , he had mislaid them . L. C. I. And when did you come to have an account that he had found those Deeds first ? Banister . It was after I had paid him 3 l. For Water . L. C. I. When was the first time that he spoke of it ? Banister . It was the Fifth or Fourth of September . L.C.I. And when did you first go thither ? Banister . On the 7th of September he desired me to come and help him and assist him in finding out the Deeds that he had mislaid . L.C.I. What do you know of this Deed ? Banister . We found one Deed — L.C.I. Look upon that Carefully , is that your Hand ? Banister . That is my Hand . L.C.I. Do you remember when you put your Hand to that Deed ? Banister . The Paper I have in my Hand was written at the same time . L.C.I. Look upon that Paper , and consider it well , and now tell us whether you found that Deed first , or Mr. Knowles . Banister . Mr. Knowles . L.C.I. Now look upon it , and look upon it carefully , when was it ? Banister . This Deed came into my Hands the same day that I writ this Note . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , we desire we may go on with our Evidence , and not have them break in upon us to examine any such thing till their time comes ; if they have any thing to object against our Witnesses , let them take their time . Mr. S. Pemberton . Mr. Attorney , we are very regular sure in what we do ; you produce a Deed , and we desire an account how you came by that Deed , and finding Mr. Banister's Name , who is your Witness , and sworn by you , we would know of him what he knows of it . L.C.I. Aye , ay let Truth come out in God's Name . Look upon it Mr. Banister once more . What say you to it ? Banister . This is the same Deed and my Hand . L.C.I. Upon your Oath , Sir , when did you first see that Deed ? Banister . This Deed I saw the 7th of September , 1682. L.C.I. Where ? Banister . In the Garret at Mr. Knowles's House . L.C.I. Did you find it first , or Mr. Knowles ? Banister . I cannot tell , it may be I might . L.C.I. Are you sure you then put your Name to that Deed ? Banister . I did put my hand upon this same Deed the 7th of September , 1682. L.C.I. Pr'ythee look upon it again , and look very carefully upon it . Which he did for a good while together . L.C.I. Now look upon your Note again . Mr. Att. Gen. Pray do so , and peruse it carefully , and see whether that Deed be in your Note . L. C. I. Nay , good Mr. Attorney , let us have no Directions . What say you ? Banister . I set my Hand to several Deeds that I found there , to some Writings , on the 7th of September , and to others on the 16th . L. C. I. Now tell us which of them it was that thou didst put thy Hand upon this Deed. Banister . I believe it might be the Seventh . L. C. I. Didst thou not see that Deed before the Seventh of September , 1682. upon thy Oath ? Banister . No , Never . L. C. I. Who was with you when you first found that Deed ? Mr. Att. Gen. Pray , my Lord , let this Note be read , and that will clear all . L. C. I. No , by no means , Mr. Attorney , he may make use of what Notes he pleases , to refresh his own Memory ; but we will never support or prop up a Perjury at that rate , I assure you , by a Note . Was Mr. Knowles with you when you found that Deed ? Banister . He was . L. C. I. Do you take it upon your Oath that that Deed was found the Seventh of September , 1682. in the Garret at Mr. Knowles's House ? Banister . I cannot tell which of the two , it was the Seventh or the Sixteenth . L. C. I. Was it one of the two , upon your Oath ? Banister . It was one of the two . L. C. I. Now call Mr. Knowles again . Mr. Williams . There he is , my Lord , if your Lordship please to look upon the Deed — Knowles's Name was to it likewise , but scraped out . L. C. I. Well , we will ask him about it . But Mr. Banister positively swears he was at the finding of this Deed. What say you Knowles ? Knowles . I know nothing of it , my Name is not to it . Mr. Williams . Was your Name ever to it , or not ? Knowles . No , never . Mr. Dobbins . But it was to it at the Tryal in Michaelmas Term. L. C. I. Did you set your Name to all the Deeds you found in the Garret ? Knowles . Yes , I did . L. C. I. Upon your Oath , Banister , did you set your Name to any Deeds that he did not , that were found there ? Banister . I believe I might do so , I would not swear punctually to it . L. C. I. Was he with you ? Banister . He was with me in the very same Chamber . Knowles . I do not know that ever I put my Hand to that Deed in my Life . L. C. I. Did you ever see that Deed ? Knowles . I cannot say I did , I remember nothing of it . L. C. I. I ask you once again , when you found this Deed was he with you ? Banister . Yes , Sir. L. C. I. You , Knowles , did you ever trust him to look and search any Deeds in your Garret , but when you were by your self ? Knowles . No , my Lord. L. C. I. Then I would ask you upon your Oath , because you are the Persons that had these Deeds in your Custody , was there any Deeds delivered out of your Hand that you did not set your Hand to ? Knowles . I believe there was never an one . L. C. I. How came this Deed which he swears was found there , not to have your Hand to it ? Knowles . I do not know that ever I saw it . Mr. Att. Gen. Did Mr. Knowles say he was looking for Deeds of his own concern when he found the first Deed ? Banister . He did say he had looked before , and had found some of these Deeds , and then mislaid them , and desired my Assistance to find them again . L. C. I. What did he say to you at first ? Banister . He said he had been spoken unto by my Lady Ivy , to look for deeds that might concern her Ancestors , and he had found some ; but finding some also that concerned himself , he had mislaid my Ladys , and desired me to help him to find them again . L. C. I. What Imployment have you under my Lady Ivy ? Banister . I am her Rent-gatherer . L. C. I. Her Bayliff I suppose : But now you speak of what my Lady Ivy desired of Knowles , I would ask you a Question , lest it slip out of my Memory . Were you present at any time when my Lady Ivy spoke to Mr. Knowles to look after any Deeds ? Banister . Yes I was . L. C. I. Pray tell us whose Deeds she desired him to look ? Banister . The Deeds he said he had mislaid . L. C. I. What were they ? Banister . The Deed of Richard Hill , and the Deeds belonging to Stepney and Shadwel . L. C. I. What Names did she mention to him , that she would have looked after ? Banister . She did mention some . L. C. I. Upon your Oath did she mention any Deeds made by Dr. Donne Dean of St. Paul ? Banister . No. L. C. I. By one May Dean of St. Pauls . Banister . No. L. C. I. Was one Lun named ? Banister . No. L. C. I. Or one Holder ? Banister . Not that I know of . L. C. I. Did she mention one Ioan Hall ? Banister . I do not know that my Lady Ivy gave particular order for any of these Names . L. C. I. Did she upon your Oath name Marcellus Hall to you ? Banister . No , my Lord. L. C. I. Upon your Oath Knowles , was not he by when my Lady named Marcellus Hall to you ? Knowles . He was , my Lord. Banister . I did not hear my Lady name that Name at all . L. C. I. No , he heard her give Order for no particular Deeds , neither for Holder , nor Lunne , nor Marcellus Hall , but only concerning Stepney and Shadwell . Sir Edw. Herbert . Banister , Did he say he had before found them and mislaid them ? Banister . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. Upon your Oath what Deed do you take that to be , which is produced ? Mr. Powis . Can you read it , yea or no ? L. C. I. Mr. Powis , Do you think my Lady Ivy sent Banister to look after Deeds that could not read ? that were very pretty . Mr. Att. Gen. What Deed do you take it to be ? Mr. Sol. Gen. Let me ask you one Question , Mr. Banister , Did you ever set your hand to any Deeds that were not found at Mr. Knowles's ? Banister . Yes , I have . Mr. Lutwich . Upon what occasion did you put your hand to them ? Banister . Because they were ancient Deeds , and I was to look out where the Lands were that they did concern . Mr. Att. Gen. Pray now answer my Question , look upon it , and tell me what Deed do you take it to be ? Banister . It is a Deed of Sale to Stepkins . L. C. I. It is so , you are in the right of it ; and now upon your Oath , where did you find that Deed of Sale ? Banister . My hand is to it , and this is one of the Deeds , I take it to be so , that was found in the Garret at Mr. Knowles's House . L. C. I. He has said so I know not how often . Mr. Att. Gen. He is not himself . L. C. I. How can I help that Mr. Attorney ? but what he says is plain . Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray read over the Note you have in your hand to yourself , and remember all the Deeds that are particularly therein contained . L. C. I. Let him read his Note , ( which he did ) and now ask him what you will. Mr. Att. Gen. Is there any Deed of the Sixteenth of April , 6 Edw. 6. from Hill to Stepkins in that Note . L. C. I. That is no fair Question Mr. Attorney . Mr. Att. Gen. With your favour my Lord , I conceive it is , for that will make it plain that he is mistaken . L. C. I. I believe he is ; but with your favour , it is not a fair Question , you are only to ask him , whether that Deed given in Evidence be there ? Mr. Sol. Gen. I would ask him one short question , my Lord , and I think it is a fair one . L. C. I. Ay in Gods name ask what fair questions you will , but no leading ones . Mr. Sol. Gen. Your Witness is drunk Madam . — to my Lady Ivy. Mr. S. Lutwich . My Lord , he does not understand what he says , that is plain . L. C. I. Brother , all Knaves are Fools in one kind too . Mr. Sol. Gen. Have you read the date of that Deed ? Banister . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , if you please , we will go on with our other Evidence a while , and let him recollect himself and consider of it . L. C. I. With all my heart , but I think the more he considers , the worse he is , and so he will be to the end of the Chapter . Mr. Att. Gen. They have called to us , my Lord , for an account of this Deed , we shall now prove that Mr. Neale knew of this Deed before . Swear Mr. Butler , ( which was done . L. C. I. What is your Name ? Butler . William Butler . Mr Att. Gen. Pray Sir will you tell the Court and the Jury , what Discourse you had with Mr. Neale , and what he said about a Deed , and when . Butler . I never saw the Lease , but as I was here at the last Tryal , when there was a Verdict for this Estate to be my Lady Ivy's , and afterwards the 22 of December last , I had an opportunity of being with Mr. Neale , he being with Mr. Brian my Ladies Husband since dead , at the Kings head Tavern , with whom I had some business . Mr. Brian was there first ( I suppose it was by appointment they met ) and in half an hour Mr. Neale came up stairs ; after they had changed two or three Complements , they came to talk about meeting at Mr. Attorney Generals Chamber in the Temple , to Treat about their Controversie . Says Mr. Neale , let there be a Forfeiture upon it of 50 l. to be paid by him that faills . No , says Mr. Brian I will make no forfeiture , but I will certainly meet there . Says Mr. Neale again , and I question not but to give such satisfaction as whereby to convince you and my Lady , that this is not her Estate . I should be glad to hear that , says Mr. Brian , why I hope you do not think the Deeds are Forged ? No , says Mr. Neale , I do not think they are forged . Mr. Knowles offered me a long time ago , to shew me that Deed , and I might have had it in my possession , but I would not ; for if I had , I should have been the aptest man in the world to burn it . This is all I can say . L. C. I. And what is this to the purpose Gentlemen , alack a day this is very thin . A slight Discourse in a Tavern ; how can any answer be given to such an Evidence , tho' indeed it does not need any ; pray let not our time be taken up with such trifling stories of a cock and a bull . Go on to that which is material . Mr. Att. Gen. Now we shall produce a Lease from Marcellus Hall , to one Roper , of part of this Eleven Acres and an half . Clerk reads . This Indenture made the 13 day of November , in the 2d and 3d years of the Reigns of our Soveraign Lord and Lady Philip and Mary , by the Grace of God King and Queen of England , Spain , France , both the Sicilies , Ierusalem , and Ireland , Defenders of the Faith , Arch-Dukes of Austria , Dukes of Burgundy , Millain and Brabant , Countess of Hasburg , Flanders and Tyrole , between Marcellus Hall of Radcliff Miller , of the one party , and Richard Roper Citizen and Salter of London , of the other party , witnesseth , That the said Marcellus Hall for the sum of Six pounds of good and lawful Money of England , to him by the said Richard Roper in hand paid , whereof the said Marcellus Hall clearly acquitteth and dischargeth the said Richard Roper , his Executors and Assigns , and every of them by these presents , hath granted , demised , and to farm letten , and by these presents granteth , demiseth , and to farm letteth , to the said Richard Roper , a parcel of Marsh Ground lying and being in Waping Marsh , at the East end of the Marsh , beginning at the west side of the Well , which lyeth by the way that leadeth up to the Linches , called Shadwel , measured by a strait line from the Linches , by the west side of the Well to the Thames Wall , and reaching West to the way that leadeth up into Radcliff high way , containing by estimation of Measure Seven Acres , little more or less , and the Pond , all which Marsh Land abutteth North upon the Linches of the Deart and Chapter of the Cathedral Church of St. Paul , and South upon the Thames Wall ; and also all the Thames Wall belonging to the Seven Acres , with the Forland and Soyl down to the Low Water Mark of the River of Thames . All which Marsh Lands are lying in the Parish and Mannor of Stebunhith , alias Stepney , in the County of Middlesex . To have and to hold the said parcel of Marsh Ground , Wall , Fore-Land and Soyl , with the appurtenances , to the said Richard Roper , his Executors , and Assigns , from the Feast of the Annunciation of our blessed Lady St Mary the Virgin next coming , unto the end and term of Four and twenty years from thence next ensuing , and fully to be compleated and ended , yielding and paying therefore yearly , during the said Term , to the said Marcellus Hall , his Executors and Assigns , Three pounds of good and lawful money of England , at Four Terms of the year . — L. C. I. What date is that Deed of ? Clerk. The 13 th of November , in the 2 d and 3 d. years of King Philip and Queen Mary . Mr. Att. Gen. Now we shall read Stepkinses's Licence to Hall , to alien his Term. Clerk. ( Reads ) To all manner of People to whom this present writing shall come , I Thomas Stepkins , alias Stipkins , of the Parish of Stebunhith , alias Stepney , in the County of Middlesex Beer Brewer , send Greeting in our Lord God Everlasting . Whereas I the said Thomas Stepkins in the 16 th of April , in the sixth year of Edward the sixth , have betaken Eleven Acres and an half of Marsh Land with all the Bank with the Foreland and Soyl down to the Low water mark of the River of Thames that he should not alien or assign the said Lease or Term of years , without the special license or consent Now know ye , That I the said Thomas Stepkins , for divers good causes give Leave and License to the said Marcellus Hall , to the Right Worshipful Mr Dean of the Cathedral Church of St. Paul with the Wall , Foreland , or Soyl under such Covenants , as is reserved and contained — Mr. Williams . I would ask Mr. Banister something about this Deed , look upon it Sir. Mr. Att. Gen. We have not done with him yet . Pray take that Deed out of his hand . Mr. S. Pemberton . You will let him give some account of it first Mr. Attorney . Mr. Att. Gen. You would sain confound him . Mr. S. Pemberton . He is confounded enough already . Mr. Sol. Gen. Now Mr. Banister you have considered of it , pray once more look upon the Deed again — ( which he did ) — Was that Deed one that you signed then or no ? Banister . This is my name , but I cannot find the Date of this Deed in my paper . I cannot tell now whether it be one I found then or no. Mr. Sol. Gen. Did you set your hand to any Deeds that were found there , which you did not set down in your paper . Banister . No , not that I know of , I do not know I did . L. C. I. Prithee where didst thou set thy hand to that Deed. Banister . I set my hand to the Deeds that were found there at the House . L. C. I. Did you set your hand to none else but what were found there ? Banister . I have set my hand to divers Deeds beside , but they are none of those Deeds that are in my paper . L. C. I. Where did you set your hand to any Deeds besides ? Banister . To divers Deeds I have set my hand at home . L. C. I. Have you to any relating to the Lands in question ? Banister . I do not know that I have set my hand to any Deeds relating to the Lands in question , but at Mr. Knowles's . L. C. I. To what purpose did you set your Hand and Name to the Deeds you found at Knowles's . Banister . To the same intent to testifie that I was at the finding of them . L. C. I. To what end did you set your Hand to any other Deeds . Banister . To the intent that I knew better where the Lands did lye then she did , and when my Lady found any Deeds , I set my Hand to them , and then found the places where the Lands lay . L. C. I. Thou hast had a fair time to consider of that Deed , canst thou see here to what place that Deed relates by this mark . Banister . I cannot find the date of the Deed in my paper . L. C. I. But where do you think you did put your name to that Deed ? Banister . I cannot tell whether I did it at that time or no , but this is my Name . L. C. I. I know thy Name is there man , I read it two hours ago , but did you put your hand to that as one of the Deeds that you found in September , 1682. when you were at Mr. Knowles's or not ? Banister . I cannot tell . L. C. I. Dost thou believe thou didst not ? Banister . I cannot tell . Banister . I cannot tell . L. C. I. Canst thou tell the reason why thou didst set thy hand to it ? Banister . Certainly because I was at the finding of it , I know no otherwise . Mr. S. Pemberton . Now pray look upon this Deed — ( shewing him another ) — and see whether that be your Name or not . Banister . Yes , my Lord , I will. Mr. S. Pemberton . Is that your Name . Banister . Yes it is , this is one of the Deeds that was found at Mr. Knowles's . Mr. S. Pemberton . You said so as to the other too . Mr. Att. Gen. But he was not so positive in it . Banister . This is Rat-eaten , and so I know it again , and there is a Rat-eaten Deed set down in my paper . L. C. I. Lethim be as positive as he will , he has been forsworn five times . Mr. Sol. Gen. He was confounded with a mistake of the Deeds , he having set his hand to so many . L. C. I. They are Perjured both of them plainly , that is the truth of the matter . Mr. Att. Gen. I hope the folly of our Witnesses in such Circumstances , shall not rob us of our own Land , and that it appears to be plainly . L. C. I. God forbid but you should have your own Land , but by the grace of God , if I can help it , you shall never have a foot of Land by Forswearing and Perjury . Mr. Williams . When did you find that Deed ? Banister . The 16 th of September . Mr. Williams . Where ? Banister . In the Garret at Mr. Knowles's . Mr. Williams . Are you sure of it ? Banister . Yes , I am sure of that Deed , because it is Rat-eaten . Mr. Williams . Knowles , Pray do you look upon it , what say you to that Deed ? Knowles . This is my hand , and this is one of the Deeds that was found there at that time . Mr. Williams . Pray read the Date of that Deed there . Clerk. ( Reads . ) This Indenture made the Thirteenth day of November , in the 2 d. and 3 d. Years of Philip and Mary . Mr. S. Pemberton . That is a Deed from Marcellus Hall to Roper ; how should that come to be at Knowles's ? L. C. I. They have sworn it . Mr. Att. Gen. They go about to blemish our Deeds by the Folly of our Witnesses , which we cannot help . We however leave the Deeds to the Jury , and let them see if those Seals and other things look like counterfeit . L. C. I. Well , go on , the Jury will have the Deeds with them . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , we did before produce a Conveyance from Richard Hill to Stepkins . It rested not there , that Conveyance had no legal Execution , thereupon there was a Fine and Recovery by the Heir of Hill , and what was the Occasion of that will appear by the Deed. Clerk. [ Reads . ] This Indenture made the Twelfth day of November , in the First and Sixth Years of the Reigns of our Sovereign Lord and Lady , Philip and Mary , by the Grace of God King and Queen of England , Spain , France , both the Sicilies , Ierusalem and Ireland , Defenders of the Faith ; Archdukes of Austria , Dukes of Burgundy , Millain , and Brabant , Counties of Haspurg , Flanders , and Tyrol : Between Iasper Hill , Son and Heir of Richard Hill , late Citizen and Mercer of London of the one Party ; and Macheline Stepkins late Wife and Executrix of the last Will and Testament of Thomas Stepkin and Iohn Stepkin , Son and Heir apparent of the said Thomas of the other Party , witnesseth , that whereas the said Richard Hill , Father of the said Iasper amounting in the whole to the Summ of 2000 by the said Macheline And where variance concerning all that Parcel of Marsh-Land unto St. Katherines , which the said Richard Hill bought of Cornelius Vanderdelf for the assuring all that Wapping-Marsh the said Richard Hill stands Bound in an Obligation of which Condition that he should make by a certain Day , a good , sure , sufficient indefeasible of and in all those Parcels of Marsh-land lying in Wapping-marsh , that is to say , all that with Six Acres of Marsh , now in the Tenure or Occupation of one Knevett , or his Assignes and all those lying in the East and in the Tenure of one Miller , that is to say , all the Bank containing by estimation three Acres and an half , and all those next adjoining , by Measure six Acres or more and two Acres by Estimation of Measure , lying in the Bottom of the Lynches , and reacheth from the Lynches to the Island by the Pond ; and also all that Parcel divided into twain six Acres , and also that holds in his own Hands , that is to say , all that Parcel with the Island and Pond , containing by Estimation of Measure five Acres and of , and in all those Parcels lying on the West side of the Pond containing in the whole sixteen Acres by Measure , all which said 16 Acres to Gravel-Lane , the said Richard Hill had in his own Occupation reaching to Gravel-Lane , sometime plowed and sown by one Richard Clayton , and now in the Occupation of one Cooper , Butcher , and lying on the East side of Gravel-lane towards London Fields which was conveyed to him from one Richard Tyrrell , and also all that Marsh in the Tenure of one Clayton , Butcher one William Cound , Butcher , seventeen Acres and of Edward Ash , four Acres , and also all the Lands , Tenements , Rents , Houses , Ponds , Fishings , Mills to the Low Water-mark of the River of Thames , and all Trees For the appeasing all Variances and Suits , the said Parties to this Indenture have fully condescended and agreed in Form following ; that is to say , the said Iasper Hill , for the Sum of 1200 l. of lawful Money of England , in which he acknowledgeth himself to be truly indebted to the said Marcheline and Iohn Stepkin , doth give , grant , bargain , sell to the said Marcheline and Iohn Stepkin all the said Marsh-ground lying in Wapping-marsh , with all manner of Lands , Tenements Forelands , Ways , Trees to the Low Water-mark with the Appurtenances lying and being in without or elsewhere within the Parishes their Heirs and Assignes for ever , all the Right , Title together with all Evidences and Writings discharged of all former Charges , Incumberances by the said Iasper Hill — Mr. Att. Gen. Next we shall shew that Marcellus Hall , that had this long Lease , and had demised the seven Acres down from Shadwell to Roper , doth on the 14th of Nov. in the 5th and 6th Years of Phil. and Mary , surrender the remaining four Acres to Thomas Stepkin , and then we shall shew it was demised to Fox , who was the first Builder , and made Foxes-lane . Mr. Sol. Gen. Your Lordship doth observe that the License was to assigne the whole eleven Acres and an Half , but he did assigne but seven . Clerk. [ Reads . ] This is dated in the 14th of November in the 5th and 6th Years of King Philip and Queen Mary . To all to whom this present Writing shall come ; I Marcellus Hall of Ratcliff , Miller , send greeting in our Lord God Everlasting . Whereas Thomas Stepkins hath by his Indenture dated the 20th Day of April , in the 6th Year of King Edward VI. lett to me the said Marcellus Hall on the West side with the Thames Wall thereto belonging , with the Foreland and Soyle for One Hundred and Twenty and Eight Years ; Know ye , that I the said Marcellus Hall , for the Sum of 30 l. of good and lawful Money of England in hand paid have by these Presents remised , released , and absolutely confirmed to the said Iohn Stepkin , his Heirs , Executors and Assignes , all such Estate , Right , Title , Interest , Term of Years , Estate , Property , Claim and Demand , which I , or any Person to my Use , have , or ought to have , or at any time shall to have in , or to four Acres of Marsh-Ground abutting East on the Green Bank , or Way through , Six Acres leading up to Ratcliff-Way , which Way adjoineth to the West side of the Lands in the occupying of Roper , which said Lands was made over with the Leave and License of the said Thomas Stepkins , to the Right Worshipful for the Term of Ninety Three Years ; and West on the Field in the occupying of Iohn North on the Lynches , and South of in or to the Thames Wall abutting East , on the South-West Way , as aforesaid down to the Low Water-mark of the River of Thames So that neither I , my Executors , or Assignes any Right , Claim , Demand or any part thereof but from all shall be utterly excluded and debarred for Ever — Mr. Att. Gen. Here is a Fine levied , Quin ' Trin ' 3 Eliz. they had best ask where that was found too : Is not that forged ? The Fine was read . Mr. Sol. Gen. Here is a Recovery also , and a Deed to lead the Uses . In which Recovery the Tenants vouch Iasper Hill , who voucheth over the common Vouchee . The Recovery was read . L. C. I. Read your Deed to lead the Uses . Clerk. Reads . ] This Indenture made the 12th Day of May , in the 4th Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lady Elizabeth , by the Grace of God , Queen of England , France and Ireland ; Defender of the Faith , &c. Between Marcheline Stepkin of the one Party ; and Edward Buggin Where it was concluded , fully condescended and agreed between the Parties to this Indenture , that they the said Edward Buggin should in the Term of the Holy Trinity recover to them by Writ of Entry sur Disseisin in le Post , to be had against the said Macheline and Iohn , before the Queen's Majesty , Justices of the Common Pleas at Westminster , for that time , being according to the Use of former Recoveries One Hundred Acres of fresh Marsh , within the Parishes , Towns , Fields And it was fully agreed between the said Parties , that the said Recovery should be to the Uses Mr. Williams . Mr. Banister , Pray , Sir , look upon this Deed , and see whether your Name be to that Deed or no. [ Shewing him the Surrender of Hall. Banister . This is my Name . Mr. Williams . Was Mr. Knowles's Hand to that Deed ? Banister . I cannot tell . M.S. Pemberton . Did not he and you put your Hands together to it ? Banister . I did not make it , I did not forge it . M.S. Pemberton . No , I do not think you did , you have not Brains to do it . Mr. Williams . Where did you find that Deed ? Mr. S. Pemberton . How came you to put your Hand to it ? L. C. I. Is it one of the Deeds of Purchase ? Mr. S. Pemberton . Yes , it is , and therefore we would know since Knowles's Name is to it , how it came there . L.C.I. Is it the Surrender made by Marcellus Hall to Iohn Stepkin ? Mr. Williams . Yes , my Lord it is . L.C.I. Let me see it . — His Name I believe has been there . Mr. Williams . Do you know any thing of the rasing of it out ? Banister . No not I. Mr. Williams . You Knowles were you at the finding of that Deed ? Knowles . I set my Hand to none but what I found . L.C.I. But what do you say to that Deed ? Knowles . I do not remember this Deed at all , I cannot say any thing to it . L.C.I. Was your Name to it ? Knowles . Here is my Name , but I do not know who put it there . L.C.I. Is that your Writing Banister . Banister . That on the back side is . Mr. Williams . Look into your Note , that you may not outrun yourself . Why did you set your Hand to it ? Banister . I suppose it was one of the Deeds found there . Mr. Williams . How should it come there , it belonged to the Purchasor . Mr. Att. Gen. Now we shall go to matter of Record again . Richard Hill it seems before the Lease made to Marcellus Hall , entred into a Recognizance in 4 Eliz. this is extended , and that will shew it to be Richard Hills's Estate . Mr. Powis . Can you object any Forgery of Records , pray . Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray Sir look upon that ( to the Witness ) where did you Examine that ? Witness . I examined this at the Rolls . Mr. Williams . Is it a true Copy upon your Oath ? Witness . It is . L.C.I. Read it . Clerk. This is Tested at Westminster 17 Ian. 4 Eliz. And here is an Inquisition taken the 6 th of April in the same year . Mr. Att. Gen. We will read that part of the Inquisition that concerns our Question , for the East bound is only in question now . ( It was read . ) Mr. Att. Gen. Was this produced at the former Tryal , the first Tryal . Sutton . No , I think not in Michaelmas Term. Mr. Sol. Gen. Then we shall shew an Inquisition upon a Commission of Sewers . Mr. Att. Gen. The Land in question is every foot of it in the Marsh , and that they must acknowledge they have no Title to it . Mr. Williams . This is an Inquisition which they produce taken before a Commission of Sewers . I desire to know how that comes to lye in a private Hand , for it is the original Inquisition , and ought to remain with the Officer . Mr. Att. Gen. The whole Interest of the Marsh was ours , therefore it might well be left with us . Mr. S. Pemberton . Under favour , good Mr. Attorney , such things should be kept by the Clerk to the Commissioners . Mr. Att. Gen. How many Tryals has this been produced at ? Mr. S. Pemberton . With submission my Lord , this that they produce being an Original , may very well come under great suspicion , in regard it ought to be brought in by the Officer , in whose Custody it ought to remain . Mr. Williams . It is not a thing of bare Interest between Party and Party , but a thing that concerns the Publick , and therefore should be brought in the Officers Custody . L. C. I. Read it de bene esse , let us see what it is . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , I would ask Mr. Sutton , was not this produced and read before the the Trial in Michaelmas Term last ? Sutton . It was produced in Court Twelve years ago . Mr. Sol. Gen. Was it allowed as Evidence ? Sutton . Yes , constantly . Mr. Att. Gen. Pray read it . Mr. Williams . Pray who has had it in keeping all this while ? Sutton . My Lady Ivy brought it to me among her Writings at first . L.C.I. Read it . Clerk. The Verdict and Presentment of us the Jurors , as well of all Defects , Annoyances , within the Limits or Bounds of Wapping , and Wapping Marsh , from Grash Mill to the Mill at Ratcliff , that is to say , the 20 th of December , Anno Dom. 1572. and in the 14 th year of the Queens Majesties Reign that now is . The Names of the Free-holders within Wapping Marsh , and the Number of Acres contained within the same Marsh , with all the Names of the Occupiers thereof . First Iohn Stepkin Gent. Freeholder , for a parcel containing Twenty two Acres , in the Tenure of Richard Ew Benedict Gent. Mr. Att. Gen. You may skip over a great deal , and read only that which conduce to the Question . Clerk. No one can read it very well I think . ( Reads ) On the west side of Gravel-lane , containing 68 Acres . — Is that it ? Mr. Att. Gen. No , go to the East side . Clerk. ( Reads ) — Freeholders , one parcel containing Ten Acres , in the Tenure of Iohn Hodges and Iohn Gee , Iohn Stepkin . Gent. Two Parcels containing 20 Acres in the Tenure of Iohn Cooper , and Iohn Harding , Iohn Stepkin , Gent. One Parcel containing Four Acres , in the Tenure of Iohn Stepkin . One Parcel Containing Twelve Acres , in the Tenure of Iohn Roger Iames , Freeholder . Two Parcels containing Six Acres , Robert Hemmings , and Iohn Stepkin . One Parcel containing One Acre and an half , Richard Roper . One Parcel containing Six Acres in the Tenure of Rechard Roper . All which Parcels be on the East Part of Gravel-lane , containing Sixty Acres — Then here is somewhat interlined and struck out again . Mr. Williams . This doth not concern the Church . Mr. Att. Gen. No more it doth not , as you say , indeed , for they cannot claim any of the Marsh. Now we shall shew a Warrant Three Years after , from the Commissioners to survey . Clerk. [ Reads . ] — This is dated the 18th of Iuly , in the 17th Year of the most prosperous Reign of our Sovereign Lady Elizabeth , by the Grace of God — &c. And it is directed , To our well-beloved John Stepkin and John Osborn , Surveyors . Whereas , The Queen's Majesty by a Commission of Sewers , bearing Date the 23th Day of April , in the Year of her Reign , hath authorized us to survey and view from Buttolphs-Wharf by St. Katharines , near the Tower of London unto Ratcliff-mill not only to consider of the Decays and Ruines of the same ; but also to take order for the speedy repairing as to our Discretions shall seem good We therefore sufficiently informed of your Wisdom and Discretion , appoint you Surveyors willing and commanding you by vertue of the said Commission to see whether the Work be accomplished according to such Ordinances and Decrees as we have appointed , and from time to time shall make and appoint , and to see who we have made Expenditor for such Sums of Money for the Payment of Workmen may by your Warrant be disbursed and payed accordingly ; and further , we give you Power and Authority to give to provide for a competent and Salary at reasonable Prices , all Workmen ▪ Boats , Lighters , Carts , Carriages , Trees , Pales as to your good Discretion shall seem meet ; and for your so doing , this shall be your sufficient Warrant . Mr. Att. Gen. We shall now go a Step farther , as I opened in the beginning , and shew that this was mortgaged by Stepkins to the Queen , and a fine was levied upon that Mortgage . Clerk. Reads . This Indenture made the 4th Day of Iune in the 15th Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lady Elizabeth , &c. Between the Right Honourable Sir William Cecil , Knight ; Lord Burleigh , and Lord High Treasurer of England ; the Right Honourable and one of her Highness's most Honourable privy Council ; Sir Gilbert Gerard , Knight ; her Majesty's Attorney General , for and on the Behalf of the Queen's Majesty and to her use of the one Party , and Iohn Stepkin Whereas William Pat one of the Tellers at and upon the Determination of his Account made and ended at the 25th Day of December is indebted in the Summ of 7928 l. 7 s. and 11 d. ob . And whereas our said Sovereign Lady the Queen the 16th Day of Iune in the 9th Year of her Reign , hath commanded the said Sir Will. Cecil Sir Gilbert Gerard , and Sir Thomas Bromley to take order from time to time with so many of the Debts owing , or that after should be owing and for the sure Payment and Contentation of the said Summ of 7928 l. 7 s. 11 d. ob . Covenanteth with them the said that he the said Iohn Stepkin his Heirs , Executors shall and will not only saisfie and pay the said Summ into the Receipt aforesaid but also for the better Settlement shall and will make and cause to be made by one Fine in good Form of Law of , and in one Close within the Parish Mannor of Yewel ; and one great Garden And of , and in one Tenement with the Appurtenances in now in the occupation of Iohn Stout ; and 19 Acres of Meadow in Wapping-marsh , Parcel of the said Mannor Richard Roper . Mr. Attorn . Gen. Where is the Copy of the Fine ? Sutton . Here. Clerk [ Reads . ] This is the Final Concord , &c. Mens . Mich. 14 Eliz. Mr. Sol. Gen. This was afterwards regranted from the Crown , and there is the Regrant . Which being under the great Seal , and Tested 6 Iulii Anno 7. Iacobi Rex was read . Mr. Att. Gen. Part of this Marsh was by our Ancestor conveyed to one East . L. C. I. Ay , I have the Note of such a Conveyance , in my Notes of the last Tryal . Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Sutton , is that a true Copy ? Sutton . Yes , it is . Mr. Williams . A Copy of what ? where did you examine it Sir ? Sutton . At the Roles-Chappel . Mr. Att. Gen. It is a Deed enrolled , and I hope you do not think the Record is forged , Mr. Williams . Mr. Williams . I know not what you forge or do not forge ; pray read it , let us see what it is . The Copy of a Deed enroled , dated 27 July , 3 Eliz. was read . L. C. I. Then the next thing that you produced was a Bond dated the 25th of Ianuary , 4 Eliz. wherein Stepkins was bound to Spinola , who was Administrator of Vivold and Salvago , upon the Recognizance of Hill to them . Mr. Att. Gen. We did so , my Lord ; but that we cannot now readily find , I think : here however is Spinola's Discharge . Clerk. This is Signed by me Benedict Spinola , and Dated the 25th of Feb. 1561. Mr. Att. Gen. Here is the Bond , read the Condition of it , though it is not material . L. C. I. That is true ; But it was read the last time , I find by my Notes . Clerk. This is a Bond of 300 l. The Condition of this Obligation is such , that whereas one Recognizance made and entered into by Richard Hill 3 Dec. in the 32th Year of the late King Henry VIII . taken and acknowledged — Mr. Att. Gen. There is enough , for it makes not at all to the purpose , but to confirm the Belief of our Purchase . Here is also Iasper Hill's Receipt of the Purchase Money . Clerk Reads . This is dated the 28th of Ianuary , in the 13th Year of Queen Elizabeth . Be it known unto all Men by these Presents , that I Iasper Hill of Wormley have had before the ensealing hereof , of Macheline and Iohn Stepkins for the discharge of a certain Statute the full Summ of 1338 l. of lawful Money of England , in full Satisfaction and Payment of all such Purchase Moneys . Mr. Att. Gen. Then the 16th of Aug. 13 Iacobi , Fox , conveyed to Iohn Stepkins ; but that is left at home . L. C. I. Well , then there is an End of that , what do you do next ? Mr. Att. Gen. We have done with our Evidence by Deeds and by Records , and now we shall come to our Evidence by Witnesses , Viva Voce . And first we shall begin with Mr. Knowles , who will will prove the Value of the Land by the Rents , and particularly what the Rents are of Derrick-Hills . L. C. I. Prove what you will. Mr. Att. Gen. Mr. Knowles , have you received the Dean's Rents ? Knowles . For the use of Mr. Neale I have . Mr. Att. Gen. What are the Rents of the East side of Cock-Hill ? Knowles . About 100 l. a Year . Mr. Sol. Gen. What are they ? Knowles . Houses . Mr. Att. Gen. All Houses ? Knowles . Some Houses , some Ground Rents . Mr. Att. Gen. What is the Rack Rent ? Knowles . About 100 l. Year . Mr. Williams . Which Houses do you speak of , Mr. Knowles ? Knowles . On the East side of Cock-hill . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know the Lynches ? Knowles . Yes , I do . Mr. Att. Gen. Who receives the Rents of that Ground ? Knowles . Mr. Neale did . Mr. Att. Gen. Have you received the Rents of the Twenty Acres ? Knowles . Yes ; for Mr. Neale I have . Mr. Att. Gen. These Three together , what are they all ? Knowles . About 2000 l. a Year . Mr. Att. Gen. All this the Church of Pauls has besides the Lands in Question . Mr. Williams . You say that part is worth 100 l. a Year . Knowles . Yes . Mr. S. Stringer . How much Land might it contain ? Knowles . It is a matter of the length of the Hall. L. C. I. And how broad is it ? Knowles . Not very broad . Mr. Att. Gen. Now then to come to the Lands in Question . Do you know Marriners-street ? Knowles . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. Who is in Possession of that , and receives the Rents of it ? Knowles . Mr. Neale . Mr. Att. Gen. What say you to Griffins-Alley ? Knowles . Some of it is in Mortgage ; Mr. Babington had it , but for Mr. Neale's Use. Mr. Att. Gen. What say you to the Water-house ? Knowles . That Mr. Neale himself has . Mr. Att. Gen. These are the things in Question . Do you know that which is called New ? Knowles . That is Mr. Neale's too . Mr. Sol. Gen. Our Lease of 128 Years expired but in the Year 1680. and we could not come at it till then : and we had it not till 1682. and that answereth their Possession . Mr. Att. Gen. Now we shall call our Witnesses to prove it Marsh-Ground . Swear Thomas Hughes — [ Which was done . ] — Do you know Wapping-Marsh ? Hughes . Yes . Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you know the Houses in Question ? Hughes . Which Houses ? Mr. Sol. Gen. The Houses now in Suit for ? Hughes . Yes , I do . Mr. Att. Gen. How long have you known them ? Hughes . There was no Houses when I knew it first . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know Cock-hill ? Hughes . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know Foxes-lane ? Hughes , Yes ; I did know it before it was built . Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know the Houses that lay on the East side of Foxes-lane ? Hughes . What Houses there ? Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know any Houses there formerly ? Hughes . I know not what you mean. Mr. Att. Gen. I ask you again , do you know Foxes-lane ? Hughes . Yes , it was a Bank before it was built . Mr. Powis . Do you know the Lynches ? Mr. Att. Gen. Nay , let us ask but one at once , pray . I will ask you a plain Question ; Did you know the Marsh before it was built upon ? Hughes . Yes , Sir , that I did . Mr. Att. Gen. How far did the Marsh-Ground go ? Hughes . To Cock-hill Eastward , as far as the broad Bridge ; Westward as far as Foxes-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. Was that all Marsh-Ground ? Hughes . The River of Thames did flow round about it , and there were Boggs , Trees and Bushes , and such things . Mr. S. Lutwich . Did you know the place where Ratcliff-Mill stood ? Hughes . According to report I did . Mr. S. Lutwich . Ay , where was that ? Hughes . Just at Bell-wharf . Mr. S. Lutwich . Upon which side of Cock-hill ? Hewes . In Shadwell-Hamlet . Mr. At. Gen. That is right . Mr. Powis . Was that like the other end of the Marsh ? Hughes . The River came in there wholly . Mr. S. Lutwich . At high Flood doth the Water come in there at this time ? Hughes . It did at every Tide high and low formerly , now it is dam'd up . L. C. I. Did the Tide come up to that you call Foxes-lane ? Hughes . Yes . L. C. I. Then that makes an end of the Question : it cannot be as you say . Mr. Att. Gen. How so , my Lord ? L. C. I. How could it be an overshot Mill ? how could the Mill be turned but with the Tide ? Mr. Att. Gen. Their Evidence makes it appear such by the Leaden Trough , which is an Instrument belonging only to an Over-shot Mill. L. C. I. Tell not me of the Leaden Trough , Mr. Attorney ; look you upon the Survey you produced , and take Notice of the last Paragraph , and there you will find the Words Prox ' adjacent ' cuidam Tenemento , &c. What make you of that ? Mr. Att. Gen. Pray , my Lord , let it be read . L. C. I. I will in the mean time ask your Witness a Question . Friend , thou seemest to be a Man that understands something . Thou sayst Foxes-Idne was a Bank before it was built , and the Tide before that time came up to that Bank , both high and low . Now suppose there had been a Mill in that Ground , how should it have been driven ? Hughes . I will tell your Honour ; my Lord , by Report , and I suppose it may be true ; the Mill stood all the Tide of Flood , and when the Flood was at High-Water , there was a Dam which kept it in , and it went out again at Ebb-Tide , and so the Mill was drove . L. C. I. There is your Overshot Mill gone then , Mr. Atorney . Mr. Att. Gen. If ever Seven or Eight Acres of Gound can be the Appurtenances of a Mill , I should much wonder . L. C. I. Mr Attorney , I can tell you of a Mill over against this Place , which I my self , and we all can remember . All the Estate about it was in the Traps Family , he was a Gentleman of our House ; all the Water that drives that Mill , and two or three Mills that serve that side of the River , is taken in as the Tide comes in , and is pent in as he says by a Dam , and when they open that , the Mill turns back again . For I would sain have all these things that seem to be dark cleared by the way as they go . I will suppose all the Records you have read to be right , and that it is called Ratcliff-Mill , and then there is the Mill-bank , and the Hilly-bank , and the Hilly-way ; it is plain then there was a Mill-bank , or a Hilly-bank , or whatever you call it . It so falls out that the thing now in Question is made plain upon your own Evidence , there was really Ponds , and Gutters , and those things that were to satisfie the Mill : This Mill comes to be plucked down , and the Ponds and all the Sleuces come now to be built upon : This is not like your Marsh Ground that is on the Western part of the Bank , but it is Parcel of Mere or Marsh , as the Pond and the rest stifled up by those things , that till such time as the Mill was taken away were Receptacles for to pen up the Water that came in with the Tide . What is the meaning of those Words in the Survey that I spoke of before , and the several Tenements and Orchards , and Ponds , and Sewers , &c. and all those things . Would you have it that this should all point to the Scite of the Mill , as though all the Boundaries should extend to the East end of the Mill ? Mr. S. Stringer . That was the Reason why I asked but now how big the whole was . L. C. I. And will what you would have , Mr. Attorney , a Ditch or two ever answer the Words in the Survey ? Mr. Att. Gen. Nor will all their Words amount to divers Closes of Ground , as this must make in the whole . Mr. Sol. Gen. Their Twenty Acres elsewhere ; answers all they can claim . L. C. I. But this you yourself say , is the Derrick-hills , in the Survey ; and you do take it as soon as the Mill was pulled down in one place , it was set up in another . Mr. Att. Gen. After he had taken our long Lease he erected one , we say , upon our Ground for he had pulled down the old Mill , and lett that to Carter . Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord , it is plain that the old Mill and the new Mill were not upon the same Ground from Carter's Lease . L. C. I. Mr. Sollicitor , You indeed agree among your selves that it is plain , but alas the Fact is quite contrary . Mr. S. Maynard . My Lord , we do make our Argument for the Defendants Title as your Lordship does apprehend it . The Boundaries towards the East is made the Mill and Ratcliff-Town . This place that contains Seven Acres , though it had Passages for the Water , is not the Mill , and it can never be , that so much Ground can be reckoned to be Lands belonging to the Mill : It is the Mill it self that is the East bound . L. C. I. No , it is the Mill and the Mill Bank , Brother . Mr. S. Maynard . With Submission , my Lord , it is Ratcliff-Mill . L. C. I. Is there no Mill-Bank in any of the Deeds ? Mr. S. Maynard . Not that I remember . L. C. I. At the Peril of my Discretion be that , Brother . Mr. S. Maynard . Take it to be so as your Lordship says , that there is mention of a Mill-Bank , that cannot lye East , for it lyeth in a little Pond — L. C. I. Good Brother let us not puzzle that which is as plain as that the Sun shines . The controversy is about all the West part of Foxes-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. No , it is the East bound that we contend for . L. C. I. Mr. Attorney , if you will mistake the Point I cannot help it , I assure you I do not . Pray take notice of it , it is called 130 Acres in your Act of Parliament . Mr. Att. Gen. Yes , my Lord , 130 Acres . L. C. I. Now then the East of your Land by your own shewing is Mill-Bank ; the East of Mill-Bank is the Mill , whereas the West part is St. Katherines , so all your Deeds and Records say but the East part of the Land is Mill-Bank . Mr. S. Maynard . No , my Lord , Ratcliff-Mill . L. C. I. But I say , ay , Brother . Then how broad doth Foxes-lane extend ? Mr. Att. Gen. 'T is reckoned 30 Foot in Carter's Lease , I think . L. C. I. That is a Lease that I perceive there is some controversy about , therefore I do not so much mind that : It is a Perch of Land I think in some of your Evidences . Mr. Att. Gen. Where Foxes-lane is , is the four Acres that were surrender'd , now that being the West-bound of the eleven Acres , where then are the other seven ? L. C. I. Read the Deed Poll again , the particulars and Bounds only . Clerk [ Reads . ] All those my four and twenty Acres and an half — Mr. Att. Gen. The East Bound your Lordship sees is the Mill : Now your Lordship makes an Objection , that if it were as we say , an Overshot Mill , it could not have been driven — L. C. I. Do not , pray , make any silly Objection for me , and then think to answer it . I tell you I do say , that it is impossible there could be any Mill there , but a Tide-Mill : The thing is as plain , Mr. Att. as any thing in the World can be Go on with your Evidence . Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray swear Iohn Somerly — [ Which was done ] — How long have . you known the Place in Question ? Somerly . I have known it about 27 or 28 Years . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know where the Mill stood , or was reported to stand . Somerly . I know where it was reported to stand , but I never knew the Mill my self , it was demolished before my time . Mr. Att. Gen. Where was it reported to stand ? Somerley . As it was reported , it stood about half the length of the Hall off the Bank , rather leaning to the River of Thames than the High-way . Mr. Att. Gen. Where was the way to the Mill ? Somerley . At Cock-hill . L. C. I. That your own Evidence say , was on the West side of the Mill. Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know Shadwell ? Somerly . I know that that is called Shadwell . Do you mean the Well ? Mr. Att. Gen. Yes ; how far is the Well from Cock-hill ? Somerley . Half the length of the Hall. Mr. Williams . How far is it East of Foxes-lane ? Somerley . Truly I cannot well tell . L. C. I. The Question is , whether that be the Well that is mentioned in the Evidences ? Somerley . I never knew any other Well ; I pay'd for filling of it up . Mr. Williams . What was it ? was it not a Pond formerly ? Somerley . It was a Well . Mr. Att. Gen. What was it called ? Somerley . Shadwell it was called , I knew no other Name it had ; and that Well was wharfed about , and there was a Piece of Wood about Six Foot long put into it , and it was on the hide of the Hill , a Cooper had it in his Possession , and he used to put his Hoops into it — Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember the Ditch that ran under the Lynches ? Somerley . I remember their was a Ditch that run along way , there were three or four Bridges over it . Mr. Williams . Was that a wide Ditch ? Somerley . It had Planks to go over , and it was a deep Ditch . Mr. Att. Gen. When you knew it did Cattle feed there ? Somerley . Not in my time . Mr. Sol. Gen. When you first knew that Well was it reputed an ancient Well ? Somerley . I knew it not till I came to buy it . Mr. Att. Gen. What do you know of the raising of Foxes-lane ? Somerley . I lived there 26 Years ago , and in the time since I lived in it , it is raised the Length of my Stick and more : For when the Tyde came in strong , it used to drive Stones and Planks in at the Windows . There was a Waterhouse erected upon Wapping-Wall , and they went to lay Pipes along the Street , but they could not lay them there , for they found great Pieces of Timber , and other things in the Ground that hindered it , and upon that they raised the Ground . Mr. Williams . Was not there a Dam made at the End of Foxes-lane to keep out the Tide ? Somerley . I never knew of any . L. C. I. Was not Foxes-lane reputed an ancient way ? Somerley . I suppose they were continually paving it to raise it higher and higher . Mr. Att. Gen. When you knew it first was it higher than the Marsh ? Somerley . It was all built when I came thither . It is 6 Yards higher at one End than the other . Mr. Att. Gen. Swear Iohn Holmes — [ Which was done . ] — Do you know the Houses in Question , between Foxes-lane and Cock-hill ? Holmes . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. How long have you known it ? Holmes . I have known the Place a matter of 28 Years , or more . Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know it before it was built ? Holmes . No ; I did not take notice of it , to say notice . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know that place that is called Shadwell ? Holmes . No. Mr. Sol. Gen. What do you know of the raising of Foxes-lane ? Holmes . I never did know of raising the Lane. Mr. Att. Gen. Not at all ? L. C. I. Was it not all the time you knew it a common Passage ? Holmes . Yes ; a common High-way . L. C. I. Shew , if you can , that there was any High-way from North to South , but Foxes-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know Cock-hill ? Holmes . That is quite off from it . L. C. I. Let me ask you a Question . Suppose you were to go for the purpose from Shadwell down to the River of Thames , would you go to Cock-hill or Foxes-lane ? Holmes . If I had occasion to go down to Pelican-stairs , then I would go to Foxes-lane ; but if I were to go to Bell-wharf , I would go to Cock-hill . L. C. I. That is quite another way . Mr. Sol. Gen. It is Southward of Cock-hill where the Mill stood . Mr. Att. Gen. That adjoined just upon the way . Mr. Sol. Gen. Doth not Cock-hill lead to the Thames ? Holmes . Cock-hill is the first beginning of the going down to Bell-wharf . Mr. Sol. Gen. Swear Eleanor Barefoot , and Mary Day . [ Eleanor Barefoot was sworn . ] Do you know Foxes-lane ? Barefoot . Yes , I know it very well . Mr. Att. Gen. How long have you known it ? Barefoot . Threescore and almost Six Years . Mr. Att. Gen. Then you knew it before it was built ? Barefoot . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know the old Mill ? Barefoot . Who , Sir ? Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember who first built there ? Barefoot . I cannot tell . Mr. Att. Gen. Pray , when you knew it first , what was it , and whose ? Barefoot . It was Marsh-ground from Cock-hill to Fenners-field it was counted and known to be Mr. Stepkin's , he was a great Free-holder , and owner of all the Ground up to East-Smithfield . L. C. I. How ? Why is not the Lynches between Cock-hill and St. Katherines ? Barefoot . The upper Ground was only belonging to the Dean of St. Pauls . L. C. I. Do you remember that which is now called Foxes-lane ? Barefoot . Yes . L. C. I. Was it a Lane at that time ? Barefoot . Yes , it was . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember how the Water came in there ? Barefoot . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. Did it come up to the Bank ? Barefoot . At high Tides it came over , that so that none could pass . L. C. I. But at common Tides ? Barefoot . It came at common Tides , till it was raised . L. C. I. But it was an usual passage for Carts and Carriages ? Barefoot . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. How was the Mill driven that was there ? Barefoot . There was a Mill in my time , that went with the Tide , and all the Water that came down from that Mill , came into a Pond , and so to the Mill-dam , and so drove this Mill. L. C. I. Which Mill dost thou speak of ? Didst thou know Ratcliff-Mill ? Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know Cock-hill-Mill ? Barefoot . Yes ; that I speak of . L. C. I. And how was it driven dost thou say ? Barefoot . It was driven by the Water that came from the River in a Sluce . L. C. I. It came out of the Thames ? Barefoot . Yes ; with the Tide . L. C. I. How did it run ? Barefoot . It had a great huge Sluce . Mr. Williams . Was that in the Lynch Ditch , or otherway ? Barefoot . It ran into a Pond . Mr. Att. Gen. Where did that Pond stand ? Barefoot . In New-Gravel-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. Where was the Head of the Pond ? Barefoot . It went out with the Tide . Mr. Williams . Where ? Barefoot . Between the Street and the Mill. Mr. Att. Gen. How near was the Pond to Foxes-lane ? Barefoot . A Quarter of a Mile off . Mr. Williams . West of Foxes-lane ? Barefoot . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know Green-bank ? Barefoot . Yes . Mr. Att. Gen. How far is that from Foxes-Lane ? Barefoot . Half a Mile off . Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know the Well called Shadwell ? Barefoot . Yes , I did . Mr. Sol. Gen. On which side of Foxes-lane did Shadwell stand ? Barefoot . It was between the Mill and Broad-bridge ; Eastward of Broad-bridge . Mr. Att. Gen. How far was it from the Mill ? Barefoot . A pretty way . Mr. Att. Gen. How far do you think ? Barefoot . About 40 or 60 Foot : The Well was between the Mill I say , and Broad-bridge , Foxes-lane stood West . L. C. I. When you knew Foxes-lane first , what was it between the Lynches on the North , and the Thames on the South ? Barefoot . a Place for Carts and Horses to go . Mr. Att. Gen. And you say it was all Marsh-ground from Cock-hill to St. Katherines . Barefoot . Yes , it was all alow Ground . Mr. Att. Gen. Whose Ground was it counted to be ? Barefoot . Mr. Stepkins's . Mr. Att. Gen. Had the Dean ever any thing to do there ? Barefoot . The upper Ground was the Dean of Paul's , but the lower Ground was Mr. Stepkins's . Mr. Williams . Was there a Bridge over the Lynch Ditch at the end of Foxes-lane . Barefoot . There was a Bridge and a Cart way . L. C. I. Do you know it was Marsh-ground on the East side of Foxes-lane ? did it ever lie under Water ? Barefoot . At high Tides and such as that it was overflowed . L. C. I. But at common Tides did it use to go over Foxes-lane ? Barefoot . I cannot tell that truly , it is now raised very high , it was much lower ; but I am sure the Tide sometimes came beyond . Mr. Att. Gen. When the Water was in the great Pond , did not it come by the Lynch Ditch . Barefoot . It came out of the Thames . L. C. I. Do you remember any way that led up to the Lynches by the Well ? Barefoot . The Lynches did not belong to Mr. Stepkins ; there was the Mill. L. C. I. But answer me , was there any way that went up to the Lynches by the Well ? Barefoot . There was no Passage to go through , but at Foxes-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. Was there not a Way at Cock-hill ? L. C. I. That is farther East than the Mill. Mr. Att. Gen. Shadwell is the Bounds of our Land. L. C. I. But where is that ? that is the Question , Mr. Attorney . I remember what the Woman said indeed the last time , if there were as many Wells as there were Pains in the Glass Window here , that was the Right Well . But that will not decide the Controversy . Mr. Att. Gen. Swear Austin Cope . — [ Which was done . ] — Do you know Cock-hill ? Cope . Yes , I do . Mr. Att. Gen. Did you not know a Mill that was at Ratcliff ? Cope . There was one at Bell-wharf . L. C. I. How long ago is it that you remember it ? Cope . Threescore Years ago . L. C. I. How was that Mill driven ? Cope . With the Tide . Mr. Att. Gen. Where did the Tide come in ? Cope . At Frying-pan-stairs . Mr. Att. Gen. Whither did it go ? Cope . It went into the Dam , and so drove the Mill. There was an Iron Mill built by one White Twenty Years after . L. C. I. How far did the Tide go up from Ratcliff-Mill Westward ? Mr. Att. Gen. As near as you can remember , what was it that stopped the Tide ? L. C. I. Ay , how far did the Tide go before it stopped ? Cope . Almost as far as New-Gravel-lane . L. C. I. Did the Tide come up as far as Foxes-lane ? Cope . It slowed over at some Tides . L. C. I. What did it at usual and common and ordinary Tides ? Cope . It never came so high . Mr. Att. Gen. How high did it come then ? Cope . Hard by it came . Mr. Att. Gen. How near ? Cope . Within Forty Foot upon reasonable Tides . Mr. Att. Gen. And did that help to turn this Mill ? Cope . Yes ; it went to the Dam , and so it drove it . L. C. I. Where was your way from North to South ? Cope . At Foxes-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. Was there a Bridge there , over which the Carts went into the Lane , under which the Water did run ? Cope . Yes ; there was . L. C. I. What is it that lies beyond the Mill ? Cope . Ratcliff-Town . L. C. I. Which was further Eastward , Cock-hill or the Mill ? Cope . Cock-hill . L. C. I. So it is by your own Map ; and then where can the Mill-bank be but Foxes-lane ? Mr. Att. Gen. Shad-well is our Bounds . L. C. I. Robin Hood upon Greendale stood , therefore this must be your Land : That is all the Argument I can make of it . Your Boundaries do make it as plain as the Nose in a Man's Face . Mr. Att. Gen. Swear Mr. Holwell — [ Which was done . ] — How long have you known this Place , the Lands in Question ? Holwell . Not above a Year . L. C. I. He is your Surveyor , I think . Mr. Att. Gen. He is so , my Lord. Pray you Cope , which way did the Water go ? Cope . Westward . L. C. I. But which way did you use to go to the River from the Lynches ? Cope . We sometimes went the lower way , and sometimes the higher way . L. C. I. Which was the higher way ? Cope . Ratcliff-highway . L. C. I. And which was the lower way ? Cope . Through Wapping and Shadwell : Shadwell is the lower way . L. C. I. Thou talkest of the Noth-West Way ; but if you were to go directly from North to South , which way would you have gone ? Cope . Down Cock-hill , or down Broad-bridge . L. C. I. Where is that ? Cope . Beyond Cock-hill . L. C. I. Whereabouts is it ? Cope . Within a little of Foxes-lane . L. C. I. When you went down Cock-hill upon which Hand did you leave the Mill ? Cope . If I went the lower way , I left the Mill on the Left Hand . L. C. I. But when you went the higher way down Cock-hill ? Cope . Then we left the Mill behind us . L. C. I. What doest thou mean by behind thee ? Cope . I left it North. L. C. I. That could never be , Man. Mr. Att. Gen. Yes , my Lord , he is right . L. C. I. But I say he is not right , Mr. Attorney , for Cock-hill is North of the Mill. Mr. Att. Gen. Cope , do you know Foxes-lane ? Cope . Yes , very well . Mr. Att. Gen. Is it raised ? Cope . Yes ; Eight or Nine Foot. Mr. Att. Gen. What was the Reason of its being raised ? Cope . It was not fitting for Carts to go over . L. C. I. Why so ? Cope . The Water came upon it . Mr. Att. Gen. And then to come to the Admeasurement , taking in the Place in question it makes just 130 Acres , which is our Number and no more . L. C. I. Then you will leave the Dean nothing . Mr. Att. Gen. Yes , he has 2000 l. a Year . L. C. I. Where ? Mr. Att. Gen. In the East beyond this Place . L. C. I. Why , would you have any of the Land that belongs to the Mill ? Mr. Att. Gen. we claim this as Marsh-Land ; which they have nothing to do with , and the Number of Acres will not be answered without it . Mr. Holwell , have you admeasured the Marsh ? Holwell . Yes ; I have , Sir. Mr. Att. Gen. From whence did you begin ? Holwell . From Hermitage-Dock . Mr. Att. Gen. Within what Bounds ? Holwell . That which they call the Lynches and the Marsh to St. Katherines from the Well . Mr. Att. Gen. And how much doth it make ? Holwell . Besides the Well and the Lynches , I find it something above 130 Acres . L. C. I. Somewhat above , how much Pr'ythee ? Holwell . Not an Acre above . Mr. Williams . Pray , Sir , how many Acres lies East of Gravel-lane ? Holwell . Besides the Well and the Lynches I can find but Fifty Acres and an half . L. C. I. Where did you reckon up the whole ? Mr. Att. Gen. To make up the 130 Acres , he took in the Mill and all . L. C. I. That is very well . Mr. Att. Gen. Why , my Lord , it is no more than 130 Acres , and so much we must have . L. C. I. Look into the Survey that you produced , and see what that says , besides all — Mr. Att. Gen. Those lye eastward of the Mill. L. C. I. Pray did you measure the Wall ? Halwell . Wapping Wall is 20 Acres . Mr. Att. Gen. If they will consent , the Jury shall have the Survey with them . Mr. Williams . With all our Hearts , let them have it . L. C. I. Gentlemen , both sides consent , you shall have the Survey with you ; but without that Consent you could not have had it , it not being under Seal . Mr. Att. Gen. Then we desire our last Verdict may be read . Mr. Sutton , was it a Verdict upon full Evidence ? Sutton . Yes , Sir. Mr. Att. Gen. How many Hours did it last ? Sutton . Five or Six . Mr. Att. Gen. Was there a View in it ? Sutton . There was so . L. C. I. Read it — [ Which was done . ] — Mr. Holwell , how much pray , is the Land between Foxes-lane and the Mill ? Holwell . Below the Lynches I find it to be Seven Acres and an half . L. C. I. Can you expect then that all those Words of Gardens , Orchards , &c. should be answered under seven Acres and an half . Besides , the first and ancient Reservation of Rent was 10 l. a Year , after it was increased to 16 l. a Year , and it doth appear the Mill turned to so little Account that it was pulled down , and so the Land was to answer the Rent , which for a ground-rent upon a Church-Lease in those Days was very great . Have you done now ? Mr. Att. Gen. We have done for the present , my Lord. L. C. I. What say you to it then for the Plaintiff , Gentlemen ? Mr. S. Stringer . May it please your Lordship , and you Gentlemen of the Jury ; If we should give no further Evidence at all than what we have already given : But leave it upon this , I dare affirm it plainly appears that they have no Title at all to this Land. As to their last piece of Evidence I would first give an answer to that , and that is their Verdict ; and that which I would observe upon it , and say to it , is this ; it was a Verdict obtained upon forged Deeds . Deeds found , as is pretended , and as you have heard from their two special Witnesses , in a very extraordinary manner found in a Garret . But by what Art prepared , and that they are forged I question not but we shall give you Satisfaction . But besides , as to their Admeasurement , it seems as they would have it 130 Acres is the Question about the extent of the Marsh. So much they claim , and we shall bring two Surveyors that will give you an account upon their Oaths , that between Foxes-lane , which we say is the West Boundary of our Land , and the East of theirs , and Hermitage-Dock , where the Marsh ends , there is above 130 Acres , and so they do not want their Number . For all the Evidence that they have given out of Records , we agree them to be as they say , and by that Agreement shall do our selves no harm at all ; for they all do confirm our Assertion : They place the Eastern Bound of the Marsh at Ratcliff-Town ; now at Foxes-lane doth Ratcliff-Town begin . The Art has been to confound the Cause by puzling Boundaries , when it is a plain apparent mistake they run upon , and indeed I may very well say , a wilful one too . They would have us confine all to a Mill and a little Ditch , when they are at least seven Acres always enjoyed with it , and all called the Mill , which had a Pond , Gardens , Orchards , Tenements , &c. And now there are very large Drains necessarily made , to keep the Water from annoying the Inhabitants , and to carry it away . But for a further Evidence of our Title , we shall first prove that upon a Bill exhibited in the Exchequer by Mr. Attorney General against Stepkins their Ancestor , to know what Incroachments had been made , what belonged to the Dean of Pauls , and what to Mr. Stepkins , are fully set out . There it is proved that the Bounds of the Marsh were Wapping-wall , alias Foxes-lane . The Marsh was continually overflown with Water , but now in our Ground there was a great many Ditches and places to keep the Water for the Service of the Mill. When we come to build upon our Ground , which was 15 Iacobi ( then it began ) then he brought an Action and did pretend that we did incroach the Wall somewhat into the Marsh , there we had a Verdict upon a View , and after a Non-suit upon full Evidence . There was likewise a Bill exhibited in Chancery against Stepkins the Father , wherein the Bounds are set forth , and he in his Answer particularly enumerates the Boundaries . And it has been constantly the Reputation of the Place , that this was the Dean's Lands , surveyed as the Deans Lands , sold in the late Times of Usurpation as the Dean's Lands . The first thing , my Lord , which they produced , and that we did then , and do now controvert is Carter's Lease ; this , they say , was found in the Garret , and they bring two Witnesses for it : But how they have behaved themselves , what confusion there is in their Evidence , you see — L. C. I. Brother Stringer , if you have any Evidence to give , pray give that first , and leave your Remarks till the last , you shall then say what you will , but first give your Evidence . Mr. S. Stringer . My Lord , we shall pursue your Direction : We say , upon Foxes Building , Stepkins surmising that the Wall belonged to him , comes and brings an Action of Ejectment against Foxes Tenants for this Wall , and upon Tryal the Verdict went against him . Then there was another Action brought , and he was Nonsuit upon that . Afterwards there was a Bill preferred against him , and in his answer he confesseth that his Wall Marsh bounded upon Foxes-lane . Here are the Bill and Answer . Which were read . As likewise Copies of two Records , one in the Common Pleas ; the other in the King's Bench. Hill. 12 Jacobi Ejectment ; George Boswell , Plaintiff ; against Tho. Fox , Defendant ; Not-guilty pleaded , a Verdict for the Defendant . Mich. 14 Jacobi Ejectment ; William Sorrel , Plaintiff ; against Tho. Fox ; Not-guilty pleaded , and the Plaintiff became Nonsuit . Sir Iohn Trevor . My Lord , we have this further Piece of Evidence ; we have here a Lease made by Stepkins of seven Acres of Land , Westward of Foxes-lane , which divides the Marsh from the Mill-Ditches , and there is a Covenant that if he recover any part of Wall , Marsh-Wall , the Tenant shall have the Advantage of it , and increase his Rent . Which Lease bearing date , 16 Aug. 13 Jac. Anno Dom. 1615. was read . Mr. Williams . This was in time between the Nonsuit and Verdict . Mr. S. Stringer . My Lord , as I did open it , there was an Information exhibited by Mr. Attorney Gen. Noy , 7 Car. I. against our Tenants and theirs , and upon that Information there were Examinations of Witnesses , and all the Bounds of both Parties particularly set out , which make it all as plain and clear as can be . This cannot be set up to serve a Turn , it was in 7 Car. I. so long ago , and when that shews the Wall to be the Inheritance of the Dean of Pauls , it answers all their pretence of a Lease — L. C. I. Look you Brother , that cannot be given in Evidence , and I will tell you why , if it were an Information against Stepkins himself , he being the Party under whom they claim , no doubt it were Evidence . But it is against the Tenants of the one , and the Tenants of the other ; who only could support their own Tenancies , but they could not know their Landlords particular Titles , and then this cannot be Evidence to bind their Inheritance . Mr. S. Stringer . We submit it to you , my Lord. Then we shall offer you a Survey . In the Year 1649. this was exposed to Sale as Church Lands , and a Survey taken and found to be the Inheritance of the Church of Pauls , and as such sold for 9500 l. and enjoyed by the Purchasors till the Restoration . Mr. Williams . Yes , and to that very Person sold from whom they say they had these Leases , which they have produced . That is to Winterburn , whose Executor Knowles was , as he says ; and if he had such a Lease , which had then been forty Years in being , would he have given so much Money or ventured to purchase it as the Inheritance of the Church . Mr. S. Stringer . Here is the Survey then taken . Mr. Att. Gen. We oppose the reading of your Survey , because it had not any Authority to warrant it . L. C. I. Nay , Mr. Attorney , though there was no sufficient Authority , yet such things have always been allowed as Evidence . You cannot but remember it was done in the Case of Finsbury-Rotten row , as they called it White-cross-street . Mr. Att. Gen. Then let them read the Commission it was made upon . Mr. S. Pemberton . We have none ; there were many things done then of this Nature , without Commission under Seal . L. C. I. Ay , they did them by Orders from Committees . Read it . It was read , dated Dec. An. 1649. Mr. S. Stringer . Now we will shew the Deeds of Purchase , which was by Deed inrolled . Dated 22 Nov. An. 1650. for 9540 l. Mr. S. Stringer . My Lord , because they pretend this to be an Overshot-Mill , as they call it ; though it be plain it could not be by the Place ; yet we have three Tide Millers that we would trouble you with a little , but first here are some others , Bland , Marr , and Leburn , who will give an account of it — [ They were sworn . ] — Bland , do you know the Houses in Question ? Bland . Yes . Mr. Williams . How long have you known them ? Bland . Thirty Years . Mr. S. Pemberton . Pray what is the common Reputation whose the Lands were ? Bland . It was always taken to be the Dean's Lands . Mr. Williams . Who were the Tenants ? Bland . Mr. Whitwick and Mr. Winterburn . L. C. I. Pr'ythee canst thou tell what was taken to be the East Boundary of Wapping Marsh ? Bland . Foxes-lane . L. C. I. Was that the Reputation upon your Oath , in all your time ? Bland . Yes ; ever since I knew it . Mr. Williams . Bland , pray do you know the Pond ? Bland . The Ponds were filled up , but there were Ditches in my time . L. C. I. How near were the Ditches to Foxes-lane ? Bland . Within Ten Foot. Mr. Williams . What was the use of those Ditches ? Bland . The Water came in at Bell-wharf and filled up the Ditches with the Tide , and so it went back again . Mr. S. Stringer . Can you tell who purchased these Lands of the State in the late times ? Bland . Whitwick and Winterburn . Sir Iohn Trevor . Swear William Kemp and Curtlett . Which was done . Mr. Williams . Hark you , Mr. Curtlet , we would ask you a Question . My Lord , your Lordship observes there is a Well called Shadwell , that is at the East end of their Marsh. We shall shew where that Well is : There was a Well very lately just by Wall-Marsh , hard by the place where the Church is now built , which was called Shadwell , and from which the Church has its Name . Curtlett , do you know Foxes-lane ? Curtlett . Yes , I do . Mr. Williams . How long have you known it ? Curtlett . I have known it Sixty Years . Mr. Williams . When you first knew it , whose Land was it ? Curtlett . I am ignorant of the original Title , or the derivative Title , I know not whose it was or is . Mr. S. Pemberton . But whose was it reputed to be , that we mean ? Curtlett . Sometimes it was reputed Mrs. Moors , sometimes Winterburns , sometimes ones , sometimes anothers . Mr. Williams . Do you remember the Mill that was in this Ground in Question ? Curtlett . Yes , very well . Mr. Williams . How was that Mill driven ? Curtlett . The Water came in at Bell-wharf , Eastward , out of the Thames into the Pond , and so run beyond Broad-bridge , and vented it self into divers Ditches , and when the Tide went out , it returned back again , and imployed the Mill. Mr. Williams . How far went the Ditches ? Curtlett . Some of them to Foxes-lane , and one principal Ditch turned up half way the Lane , that People were forced to have Boards and Planks to go over it . L. C. I. The Thing is very plain , had it been as they say , an Overshot mill , this Provision that was made of Water for it , for ought I see , would have drowned all the Ground round about it . Curtlett . When I was a Boy we used to swim in that Place that was near Shadwell , in the Eady , there I have seen the Water as it went out , and the Mill wrought with it as it went back again . L. C. I. Was there not a way when you knew it first from North to South ? Curtlett . I cannot well tell . Mr. Att. Gen. Was there not a way from Ratcliff-high-way at Cock-hill to the River of Thames ? Curtlett . There was a common way for Carts and Horses down to the Ballast-wharf , and there was a great vacant Place — Mr. Att. Gen. Pray let me ask you , Did you ever hear these Lands reputed to be Stepkin's when you knew them first ? Curtlett . We have heard talk of that Gentleman . Mr. Att. Gen. How long ago ? Curtlett . I have not heard of him this Tweny Years . Mr. Att. Gen. Have you above Twenty Years ago ? Curtlett . If I did hear of him , I do not believe then it was in his Possession ; I cannot tell whose Title is best : You have , I suppose , both of you better Witnesses than I ; Conveyances and Deeds . Mr. Att. Gen. He is a wise Witness , he will not swear whose it is . L. C. I. He is so , Mr. Attorney ; I wish yours were so too . Mr. Williams . Pray what was it beyond Shadwell , and how near was Shadwell to Marsh-Wall ? Curtlett . Shadwell was on the further side near Foxes-lane . Mr. Williams . To the East or West of Foxes-lane ? Curtlett . To the West . Mr. Williams . Did you know the Well that is called Shadwell ? Curtlett . I know there was such a small Spring . L. C. I. Did it lie East of Foxes lane or West do you say ? Curtlett . West it lay . Mr. Williams . Pray did the place where you used to swim come up as far as the Wall ? Curtlett . Oh , no. L. C. I. I believe that was within the Thames only . Mr. Williams . How near have you swom to Foxes-lane ? Curtlett . It was in the Thames in an Eddy , there the Water went underneath the Mill. Mr. Att. Gen. In whose Ground was that Well that you call Shadwell ? Curtlett . I cannot tell in whose Ground it was . Mr. Att. Gen. Was it in the Lynches , or in the Marsh Ground upon your Oath ? Curtlett . I cannot tell indeed whose Ground it was in . Mr. Att. Gen. Did it rise very high ? Curtlett . It was out of the high Ground where the Church is built . Mr. S. Lutwich . Did you ever hear of any Well but what lay between Foxes-lane and the Mill ? Curtlett . Sir , I can only give an account where that Well lies that was called Shadwell , where the Church is now . Mr. Att. Gen. How many Wells have you known ? Curtlett . None but that , Sir. L. C. I. He does not know as many as there are Pains of Glass in the Window , Mr. Attorney . Mr. Williams . And this , he says , lay West of Foxes-lane , and there is your Shadwell-Bounds for you . Mr. Att. Gen. I ask you again , that Spring which you mentioned , did it lye in the Dean and Chapters Lynches , or no ? Curtlett . I tell you I know not whose the Ground was ; the Church stands there now . Mr. S. Lutwich . Did it lie in upper Shadwell ? L. C. I. He answers as plain as any Man can ; it was where the Church now is . Mr. Williams . Where is Kemp ? Do you know the Houses in Question ? Kemp. The Houses in Shadwell I do know , between Bell-wharf and Foxes-lane ; I knew them before they were Built as there are now ; there were some small Houses built here and there all along . There was a Pond and Ditches to receive the Water of the Tide : but at Broad-bridge especially there were Houses along to the Northward , among the rest , Mr. Craven's House who had a large Orchard and Garden . L. C. I. Where was that ? Kemp. Eastward of Foxes-lane , and several other Houses there were . Mr. Williams . Whose Inheritance was it ? Kemp. Mrs. Moor was my Master's Landlady , and Shadwell was reputed her Land and Ground . Mr. Williams . She was Lessee under the Church . Mr. S. Pemberton . Did you know the Cutts and Ditches in that Ground ? Kemp. Yes , Sir. Mr. S. Pemberton . How far went they Westward ? Kemp. The Ditch ran all in one till it came to Broad-bridge where it parted to the Northward and the Westward . L. C. I. How near Foxes-lane ? Kemp. Within a Dozen or Twenty Yards of Foxes-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. What sort of Ground was it ? was it not Marsh-Ground ? Kemp. A Man that built Boats in Winter time , put his Shallops into the Pond , otherwise it was very good Ground to the Northward , there were very many good Houses built and since Mr. Neale had to do with Shadwell , they have built in Mr. Cravens , and built a Water-house and two other Houses there . L. C. I. Read the Survey again that mentions Craven's House there . Which was done . Kemp. That was bending Northward that way . Mr. Williams . It is part of the seven Acres now in Question . L. C. I. Do not you contend for the Brew-house ? Mr. Att. Gen. for the Water-house we do . L. C. I. Is not the Water-house built upon part of Craven's Ground ? Kemp. Yes , my Lord ; it is . Mr. Williams . When did you know this first ? Kemp. Fifty Years ago . Mr. Williams . was this Ground Orchards or Gardens then ? Kemp. Several places of it were Gardens and Orchards ; some Places had Houses , chiefly to the Northward , some good Houses and Orchards , especially Mr. Craven's . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you speak of the Hilly or the Low Ground ? Kemp. The Middle Ground , chiefly that that lay Northward . Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know the Lynches , the Hilly Ground ? Kemp. Up higher to Ratcliff-high-way I did . Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know the Ditch that came under the bottom of the Lynches ? Kemp. The Stream did run in several Places , but the Ground was good Ground Northward specially . Mr. Att. Gen. were there any Houses built on the South side of that Ditch ? Kemp. There were a great many built between the Ditch and the Thames , between Bell-wharf and Foxes-lane . Mr. Att. Gen. What , Fifty Years ago ? L. C. I. Your own Survey says so . Mr. Williams . Call Daniel Hams : — Swear him . — [ Which was done . ] — Do you know the Mill and Lands in Question ? Hams . I knew it when it was a Mill. L. C. I. How long is it since you first knew it ? Hams . Forty Years . L. C. I. Pr'ythee what a kind of Mill was it ? Hams . A Ground-shot-Mill , she took in Water at Bell-warf , and it ran towards the West to Foxes-lane , in several Branches and Ditches . L. C. I. How ! A Ground-shot-mill sayst thou ? why these Gentlemen say it was an Over-shot-mill . Hams . My Lord , It could be no Over-shot-mill , for the Water will not rise high enough to drive such a Mill ; it ran in several Ditches to preserve it from rising to overflow the Ground . Besides , my Father , who was a Mill-wright himself , told me he had known it Threescore Years , and knew it always a Ground-shot-mill : He told me of all the Mill , about London , what they were . Mr. Att. Gen. Pray how old was your Father when he told you so ? Hams . He had known them he said , Sixty Years , and he has been dead Twenty Years . Mr. Att. Gen. Why the Mill was removed . he could not know it so long . L. C. I. I know no Proof of it but your Deeds . Hams . My Lord , there it was , he said . Mr. Att. Gen. Was there not a Pond and Ditches ? Hams . There must be Ditches to receive the Water as it came in , but still the more the Tide came in that fill'd up the Ponds , and as it went back again , it drove the Mill. Mr. Williams . What Prosession are you of Pray ? Hams . I am a Mill-wright . Mr. Att. Gen. Pray do they make use of a Trough in such a Mill. Hams . They do for an Over-shot-mill . Mr. Att. Gen. Here is a Trough of Lead in their Lease . Do not they in an Under-shot-Mill . Hams . No , if it be by the Tide a Ground-shot-mill , there is no necessity of a Trough . Mr. Williams . We have a great many Witnesses to this Point . Swear Grindy — [ Which was done ] — Are you a Mill-wright ? Grindy . I am only a Miller . Mr. Williams . Did you know the Mill in Question ? Grindy . I cannot remember it , Sir. L. C. I. How long have you known the Place ? Grindy . Thirty or Forty Years : But I had no acquaintance with that Mill they speak of ; But I know it is impossible for any Over-shot-mill to be there : For I keep part of a Tide-mill my self , and have done so this Forty Years , and I know the Water must rise at least Ten , Twelve , or Fourteen Foot higher than it needs in a Tide-mill . For we take in our Water as the Tide comes in , and we have a pair of Gates that are hung with Hinges at the Top , which open as the Tide comes in , but the Water as it goeth out , shuts it again , and that keeps the Water to stand three or four Hours in some Mills , and then we have only Gutts that belong to the Wheel , and then we draw up the Gates the Water goes out . We have no Water that comes above the Shaft , which is half the Heighth of the Wheell , which is Sixteen Foot high . To talk of an Over-shot-mill the Water must rise so high as to go over the whole Marsh. L. C. I. And must drown all the Town and Country too . It is plainly so , Mr. Attorney , talk as long as you will. Mr. Att. Gen. Friend , I ask you but one short , plain Question : I would know , can they use a Leaden Trough with those Tide-mills , as you call them ? Grindy . We can use none , nor do we make any such thing . Mr. Att. Gen. Would not the Springs in the Lynches , carry an Over-shot-mill ? Grindy . Sir , I have seen the Place all about many times , and I will lay any Man 20 l. to 20 s. that all the Springs thereabouts shall not Produce a quarter enough Water . Mr. Williams . Where is George Care ? Swear him — [ Which done . ] — Do you know Foxes-lane ? Care. Very well . Mr. Williams . How long have you known it ? Care. Eight and Fifty Years . Mr. Williams . Did you know Shadwell , the Well so called ? Care. That I did , Sir. Mr. Williams . Where stood it pray ? Care. At the upper End of Foxes-lane as we go Westward , and just at the side of the Church-yard , there is one now and brick'd over Head , where they used to fetch Water : I never knew any other . Mr. Williams . Was that called Shadwell ? Care. I never knew any other but what I tell you of . Mr. S. Stringer . Pray what was usually taken to be the East-bound of Wapping-Marsh ? Care. The West side of Foxes-lane was called Marsh-Wall , or Wall Marsh , and that was the Boundary to Stepkins's Lands , and Eastward was always the Lands of the Dean of Pauls , and I have known it this Eight and Fifty Years ; Nay , I was the first that ever built an House in Foxes lane . Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know the Lynches , or the High-Ground Northward ? Care. I know it not by that Name . Mr. Att. Gen. This Well you speak of , did it not rise out of that Ground ? Care. It was by the Church-yard that is now . Mr. Att. Gen. You have that the Inheritance of it . Mr. Williams . Sir , we hope we shall not need to be taught which is our Inheritance . Where is Mr. Mar. We shall now my Lord answer the Admeasurement made by her Surveyor Holwell Pray will you Mr. Marr , tell the Court how many Acres it is . Marr. The Land which is counted Wapping-Marsh , which is bounded on Foxes-lane East , on the Dean's Land West , upon Grash-Mill , Well-close , Nightinghal lane , &c. if we take it to the upper Ground , doth contain 130 Acres , but take in that which is in Question too , and it makes 141 Acres . Mr. Williams . Did you measure it too Mr. Leyburn . Leyburn . I did so too , Sir , and it is as he says . L. C. I. How much is it ? Leyburn . I took the whole from St. Katharines to Foxes-lane , and it makes 130 Acres besides the Upland and Foreland , and the like between Grash-mill and Wall-marsh-wall : It is at least so much ; it is , I think somewhat more , the Ditches being undetermined . L. C. I. Well , what is it all this while you keep my Brother Gregory for ? Mr. Williams . If your Lordship please , we have only a short Question to ask Mr. Baron Gregory ; if he please to be sworn — [ Which was done . ] — Where is Mr. Knowles ? Sir , you were pleased to say that the Writings were carried to Mr. Neale's Council in Grays-Inn , and that that Writing was among them . Knowles . They wereso , and I believe it was among them . Mr. Williams . My Lord , Mr. Baron Gregory had the Perusal of these Writings . L. C. I. But , Mr. Williams , my Brother Gregory was not named to be the Counsellor in Grays-Inn . Knowles . No , one Gage , or some such Name . L. C. I. I suppose it was to Mr. Cage's Chamber , that married Okey's Widow . M. S. Stringer . I believe it was , and I am sorry we have kept Mr. Baron Gregory so long . Knowles . Pray did you know they were with Mr. Baron Gregory ? L. C. I. Did you know they were with my Brother Gregory ? Knowles . No , my Lord , that I remember . L. C. I. Well Brother , we cannot help your staying now , but remember you had an Offer made you at first , and you are punished for refusing it . Go on Brother Stringer . Mr. S. Pemberton . My Lord , that which we were surprized with the last Trial , was the Newness of these Deeds to us . It look'd to us to be so strange a thing , so amazing a thing to us , that we knew not how to give an answer to it . We have since considered of these things , and your Lordship doth see what account they themselves have given of them . And what an improbability it is that these Deeds should be found , as they say . Here was a Possession which we have proved under the Dean of Pauls Lease for so long , this they would strip us of these Deeds that they have trumped up . It made us look into it more warily , and we cannot conceive it probable , or any thing likely , that the Deed of Purchase whereby this Land is pretended to be purchased into the Family of the Stepkins's , should be found in the Hands of the Dean of Pauls Lessee , who likewise purchas'd it of the State , as the Inheritance of the Dean of Pauls . How could the Deed of Purchase from Hill be in our Lessees House . Mr. Att. Gen. It was not , that is a mistake . Mr. S. Pemberton . Good Mr. Attorney , do not interrupt me . We must rely upon it that they swore it the last time , and that the Deed of Inheritance made four days before our Deed , on purpose to warrant the Trick . Here is likewise a Surrender made between Hall and Stepkins produced . How the Deans Lessees should come to have that Deed of Surrender ? But to satisfie your Lordship in this matter , We shall give a Full and a Fair Evidence , that these Deeds are forged . Mr. Bradbury . My Lord , we have had a violent suspicion , that these Deeds were forged . But we suspect it now no longer , for we have detected it , and will shew as palpable self-evident Forgery upon the Face of these Deeds as ever was . I desire to see the Deed of the 13th of November , in the 2d and 3d years of Philip and Mary from Marcellus Hall to Roper : and that of the 22th of December , in the same years , from Marcellus Hall to Carter , I desire to see too . Your Lordship sees the use of these Deeds . The one is grafted upon our Lease from Dean Fecknam , where it is recited , that the Mill is demolished , and a new one erected in another place ( says their Deed , ) and upon that they set up the Notion of an Overshot-Mill , and all the puzling Matter brought into this Cause . But I dare undertake to prove them plainly forged . Mr. Attorney . That is an undertaking indeed . Mr. Bradbury . It is an undertaking indeed to detect the Defendants Articles , but I will venture upon it , and shall demonstrate it so evidently , that Mr. Attorney himself shall be convinced they are forged . Mr. Att. Gen. Come on , let us see this Demonstration . Mr. Bradbury . The Deeds have brought that Evidence upon their own Faces , that is 1000 Witnesses . Mr. Williams . Prithee open the Exception . Mr. Bradbury . If your Lordship please to look upon them , the Stile of the King and Queen in both run thus . The one is , This Indenture made the thirteenth day of November , in the Second and Third Years of the Reigns of our Soveraign Lord and Lady Philip and Mary , by the Grace of God King and Queen of England , Spain , France , both Cicilies , Ierusalem , and Ireland , Defenders of the Faith , Arch Dukes of Austria , Dukes of Burgundy , Millain and Brabant , Counties of Hasburg , Flanders and Tyroll . The other is , This Indenture made the 22th day of December in the same Year . Now in November and December 2 and 3 of Philip and Mary it was impossible for any man in the World to draw a Deed in this Form that those two Writings are — Mr. Att. Gen. Is that your Demonstration ? L. C. I. Pray let him go on , methinks it is very ingenious . Mr. Bradbury . My Lord , I had the hint from my Lord Coke in his first Institutes , not as to this particular Stile , for I know he is mistaken there , but for the detecting of Forgeries in general . L. C. I. It is very well , pray go on . Mr. Bradbury . My Lord , at that time King Philip and Queen Mary were among other Stiles , stiled King and Queen of Naples , Princes of Spain and Sicily ; they never were called King and Queen of Spain and both the Cicilies then . And lastly , Burgundy was never put before Millain . Now to prove all this , that I say I have here all the Records of that time , which will prove their Stile to be otherwise . First , We shall shew the Acts of Parliament of that time . The sitting began the 21th of October , in that Year which was before their Deeds , and ended the 9th of December after . We shall first read the Titles of the Acts of Parliament , and you will find them just as I have opened them . Read the Statute Book . Clerk ( Reads ) . Acts made at a Parliament begun and holden at Westminster , the one and twentieth day of October , in the Second and Third Years of the Reign of our most gracious Soveraign Lord and Lady Philip and Mary , by the Grace of God King and Queen of England , France , Naples , Ierusalem and Ireland , Defenders of the Faith , Princes of Spain and Sicily , Arch Dukes of Austria , Dukes of Millain , Burgundy and Brabant , Counties of Haspurg , Flanders and Tyroll , and there continued and kept until the Dissolution of the same , being the ninth day of December then next ensuing . M. Bradbury . Here in the Acts made by the Publick Council of the Kingdom the Style is in the ancient manner . And your Lordships observes these no small differences . Here first Spain is left out in the enumeration of the Kingdoms , and so Sicily and Naples is instead of them . In the Deeds Spain is put in before France , and the Sicilies made a Kingdom too . Secondly , Here in the Style of the Act they are called but Princes of Spain and Sicily , that in the Deeds is quite left out . And then in the Acts of Parliament , Millain is put before Burgundy , in the Deeds , Burgundy before Millain . And how this great alteration of the Style should come to be put in a Millers Lease , is strange . We have next an account of all the Fines of Hillary Term , which was the Term next following ; for their first Deed happens to be in Michaelmas Term , and then the Parliament sate too . Many of which were read . Mr. Bradbury . Here are likewise the Fines of Easter Term following , which shew that still the Old Style continued in all the publick Records . And if we could as easily have brought all the Enrolments of Deeds that would prove the same . The Fines of Easter Term read . Mr. Bradbury . Now , my Lord , we shall shew when the Style turn'd , that was in Trinity Term after . The Fines read . Mr. Bradbury . But I cannot see how these Deeds could be truly made at that time when they stand single , and none like them can be shewn , except they come from the same Forge that these do . I cannot believe the Miller alone , or he that drew his Leases for him , could so long before prophecy what manner of Style should hereafter be used . Mr. Williams . Your Lordship has heard our Deed of the 10th of December , in the same Year , read already , but we having here the Leiger Book of the Church of St. Pauls , which cannot be made for a Turn , but was written at that time ; we desire the Style may be read there — [ Which was done . ] — But to go a little further to satisfie your Lordship that they are very likely to be forged , We shall give some evidence that this is not an unusual thing with some People concerned in this Cause . The Witnesses will name them to you , and give you an account of it . Swear this Lady and Sir Charles Cotterel . [ Which was done . ] L. C. I. Well , what is it you call these Persons to . Sir Iohn Trevor . To speak plain , my Lord , we call them to give an account of my Lady Ivies forging a Mortgage from one Sir William Salkhill for 1500 l. of a House in St. Martins Lane , to which forgery Mr. Duffet , that Ladies Husband was privy , and what benefit he should have by it you will hear . Sir Charles Cotterel pray will you tell what you know of my Lady Ivie in this matter . Sir Charles Cotterell . My Lord , that which I have to say is this ; My Lord , I am Tenant to my Lady Salkhill , Sir William Salkhill's Widow , in a House in St. Martins Lane , and was so to her Husband a year and a half before he died . The House hath been built backward , and the Garden side they kept to themselves ; But all the House that was first built , I took , and have it still . My Lord , my Lady Ivy did come to the House about three months before Sir William died , parting from her Husband Sir Thomas Ivy , she came thither as a Refuge , where she had been before , and was received very kindly . He died , as I said , about three months after , and my Lady then desired to know how accounts stood between Sir William and her about monies he had lent her , and supplied her with . And upon the Account she appeared to owe Sir William 96 l. she then took 4 l. more out of my Lady Salthills mony , and told her , now Madam , I owe you 100 l. She had been entertained as a Guest there without paying any thing for it , and at his death she continued with my Lady Salthill three quarters of a year after . And being there ( as she pretended ) in great kindness to me , she persuaded my Lady and me , that the Lease of my Ladies House should be turned over to me in trust for a Debt of fourscore pounds that was owing to me by Sir William Salkhill . Said I to my Lady Salkhill , Madam I am in no doubt of my mony , I pay as much Rent as this in a Year and more , I can pay my self that way , pary let not me meddle with any such thing , Mr. Duffett will be persuaded I intend to cheat them if I should . But still my Lady Ivy was at it , and prevailed upon my Lady Salkhill to press me to it . At last upon their importunity , said I , if it be necessary for my Ladies service , let it be done what you think fit . She therefore gave direction to Mr. Sutton , and he come to me , and I directed him to draw a Writing to turn over the House to me as a security . He asked me how much my Debt was ; Fourscore Pounds said I. Said he , I should see my Lord of Salisbury's Lease , to my Lady , for he must take some things out of it to draw this by . He did see it , and took as much by Note out of it as he thought fit , to make the other by . Then a Writing was drawn , this was in Iune 1670 , or 1671. I am not certain particularly which , but she brings this Writing , and my Lady Salthill signed it by her desire , and my Lady Ivy , and Mr. Sutton were both Witnesses to it . About a year after I heard that she set on foot a Mortgage of her own upon this House from Sir William Salthill . I wondred at it , because when the Account was made up she appeared to be in Sir William's Debt ; and I told those that told me of it , I would believe it when I did see it . I was then informed the Writing was at Malmesbury . She after went out of Town , and comes back again in a little while , and this Writing , as I heard , was shewn to several persons of my acquaintance that came to me and told me they had seen it , but said I so have not I , but when I see it I will believe it . At last Serjeant West , who was a Relation of mine , I married his Aunt , one day brought over this Writing to me , and told me he had got this Writing at last , and leave from my Lady Ivy to let me see it . I looked upon it , and there I did see at the bottom , where the Seal was , William Salkhill , and then I turned to look upon the Witnesses names . No , says he , you must not see that , who are Witnesses to the Deed , for my Lady Ivy made me promise , before she let me have it to shew you , that you should not see the Witnesses names . Then said I again , I have seen enough to give me satisfaction : I was a little the more confirmed that the thing was not a reality but fiction , and so I told him . My Lady saw that would not pass , she offered , provided Mrs. Duffet , my Ladies Daughter , might have the advantage of the House to release the matter . L. C. I. Pray Sir , for how much was the pretended Mortgage . Sir Charles Cotterel . For 1500 l. that Sir William Salkhill owed her , which I thought somewhat strange , seeing , as I said , she owed Sir William so much at his Death . At last I came to produce my Writing , ( for she told me I might give Mrs. Duffett a Right to the House . ) Now I had not read over the Writing made to me , but now when I came to look upon it , instead of a Mortgage for securing my Debt , mine was a Deed of Sale from my Lady Salkhill , whereby the House and the Lease from my Lord of Salisbury were sold me for fourscore pound , at which I was a little amazed . My Lady then was pleased to say I was a Cheat , tho' I had no hand in it , nor indeed would have had any thing at all done but upon my Lady Ivy's importunity and my Lady Salkhills , I gave direction only for a Mortgage . L. C. I. What was it that Sutton took out of my Lord of Salisbury's Lease ? Sir Charles Cotterel . He was to take Notes to draw a Mortgage of that Lease by . L. C. I. He got the Notes , tho' for ought I perceive , to draw another Mortgage by . A very Trick , it smells rank of the Knave . Mr. S. Stringer . Pray Sir Charles did you ever pay any Mony by my Ladies Order . Sir Charles Cotterell . I did lend my Lady Ivy 50 l. she being in distress for mony , afterwards it was made up an 100 l. About February 7 ● . it was made up 1250 l. and by agreement among them my Lady Ivy did relinquish that said Mortgage she had thus set on foot , and there was a Deed Tripartite made between me of the first , my Lady Ivy of the second part , and some Trustees for Mrs. Duffett of the third part , whereby the Revertion was given to Mrs. Duffett , and my Lady confirmed it , and gave my Lady Salkhill a Bond of 1000 l. in which Colonel Gravener was bound for her , that she should not trouble my Lady about the House ; yet notwithstanding she did afterwards write to Mr. Duffett , as I have heard , that she would set it on foot again , and she should have half of what she recovered . L. C. I. The Inheritance of the House it seems is in my Lord of Salisbury . Sir Charles Cotterell . Yes , my Lord. Sir William Salkhill had the original Lease from my Lord of Salisbury . L. C. I. What direction did you give Sutton about it ? Sir Charles Cotterell . To make a Mortgage only to secure fourscore pound . L. C. I. And what did he make ? Sir Charles Cotterell . An absolute Deed of Sale. L. C. I. Was there no Proviso in it to be void upon payment of mony ? Sir Charles Cotterell . No nothing but an Actual Sale for so much mony . L. C. I. You say my Lady Ivy afterwards did relinquish her pretended Mortgage , pray had she nothing for it . Sir Charles Cotterel . Nothing that I know of , she joyned in that Deed Tripartite . Mr. Williams . What should dispose her to give Mrs. Duffett 1500 l. if it were really owing her . L. C. I. Is that Mortgage here among your Writings Mr. Attorney ? Lady Ivy. Indeed , my Lord , I would have brought it if they had given the least notice of what they now talk of . Mr. Att. Gen. Sir Charles Cotterell , Do you know that my Lady Ivy forged that Deed ? Sir Charles Cotterell . Not I , but it did appear to me to be no-true Deed upon what I found and knew . Lady Ivy. You must give an account for what you have said here — L. C. I. Nay , Madam , pray do not be in a passion : he has sworn what he has said here . Lady Ivy. If he doth swear it , he is forsworn . L. C. I. Nay , Madam , you must be more moderate in the Court. Mr. Williams . My Lady thinks she has occasion to be angry , but it may be we shall give her more exercise for her Passion before we have done . Pray swear that Lady , Mrs. Duffett . Will you acquaint my Lord and the Jury what you know has been done by my Lady Ivy , or by her direction , in making and altering of Deeds . Mrs. Duffett . My Lord , I did see Mr. Duffett Forge and Counterfeit several Deeds for my Lady Ivy. L. C. I. Do you hear what she says , Mr. Attorney ? Mr. Att. Gen. Yes , my Lord , we shall give an account of her anon . L. C. I. Truly I hope I mistook her , and did not hear right what she said . Pray Mrs. speak it over again , and consider well what you say . Mrs. Duffett . I say , my Lord , I did see Mr. Duffett Forge and Counterfeit several Deeds for my Lady Ivy. The first thing that I do remember was in the Tryal between her Husband and she Mr. Duffett did by her Order counterfeit a Bond from him to some third Person for 1000 l. and several Letters pretended to be written from Sir Thomas to my Lady Ivy , were counterfeit . The next thing that I remember ; Mr. Duffett was writing upon a Parchment : I asked him what he was writing ? He answered me , he was counterfeiting one Glovers Lease , by which my Lady would get many hundreds of Pounds , and for which he should have 500 l. I desired him to consider what he did , for before that time he had been accounted a very honest man. Some time after that my Lady Ivy did upon a Pique to my Mother , my Lady Salthill , set a-foot a Mortgage she pretended to have of the House in St. Martins lane for 1500 l. from my Father . She did once tell me she had such a Mortgage , as she pretended real , but that it was drowned in a Trunk of Writings coming from Malmesbury . Said I , my Mother and Sir Charles Cotterell will not believe it if you do not let them see it . I am satisfied as to my concern in it , and would not have you proceed in it , for she pretended she did it for my advantage . But afterwards Mr. Duffett and she did agree to make a Writing , in my sight , of a Mortgage . L. C. I. Was my Lady Ivy by when the Writing was made as you say . Mrs. Duffett . She was by , giving him order how to make it , and what Ink he should use to make it look old , and they forced me to make the Ink , and to fetch Saffron to put in it to make it look old . Mr. S. Stringer . Now will be the time to shew my Ladies Letters . L. C. I. Mrs. I would ask you one Question by the way , whether while these things were doing at any time , any body did come in and give you any Interruption ? Mrs. Duffett . My Lord , Mr. Duffett and my Lady made me oftentimes stand at the Door ( for we were but Lodgers ) that no one might come and disturb them , and I never remember any that came in thither but one Mr. Sutton an Attorney , my Lady's Attorney . L. C. I. Did he see any of this done ? Mrs. Duffet . I cannot say he helped to do any thing , for when he came in they sometimes sent me out to see that no Body should come upon them ; and so what he did I cannot say . But he was let in when Mr. Duffett was counterfeiting for my Lady Ivy. L. C. I. When was this , about what time ? Mrs. Duffett . Of the Day , my Lord. L. C. I. No , how long ago is it ? Mrs. Duffett . It might be about 70 , or 71. L. C. I. You are my Lady Salkhills Daughter , I think , and married Duffett . Mrs. Duffett . I did so , my Lord , I am her Daughter . Mr. S. Stringer . Pray what did they do to the Deeds they made to make them look like ancient true Deeds ? Mrs. Duffett . For the making of the Outsides look Old and Dirty , they used to rub them on Windows that were very Dusty , and wear them in their Pockets to crease them , for some weeks together , according as they intended to make use of them . Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , as it happens we have that Deed she talks of , called Glovers Lease , here . L. C. I. Ay , I suppose you have such a Deed ; it is a Famous Deed in Westminster Hall. Mr. Att. Gen. Here it is , we desire she may look upon it . [ Which she did . ] Mrs. Duffett . As for this Deed , I cannot swear this is the Deed , there have been so many made by them . But he did counterfeit a Deed that he told me was one Glovers Lease . Mr. Williams . Mrs. you were going on to tell how they did use their Deeds they made . Pray tell us how they used to lay them in the Balcony's , and all you know of the Art. L. C. I. Ay , how was it ? Mrs. Duffett . When they had been rubbed upon the Window to make them look Dirty , and they were to pass for Deeds of a great many years standing , it was used to lay them in a Balcony , or any open place for the Rain to come upon them and Wet them , and then the next Sunshine-day they were exposed to the Sun , or a Fire made to dry them hastily , that they might be shrivelled . L. C. I. Is your Husband dead or alive ? Mrs. Duffett . Dead Sir. Mr. Att. Gen. How long has he been dead ? Mrs. Duffet . I was not at his Death with him , he died beyond Sea. L. C. I. Was your Husband alive when Mr. Iohnson's business was ? Mrs. Duffett . Yes , he was . L. C. I. Yes , I know he was in Court , tho' I asked the Question , I remember all that business . Mrs. Duffett . I was subpoena'd in at that time , but my Lady Ivy would not let me swear . L. C. I. Pray Mrs. what had your Husband for his pains ? Mr. Williams . Had he any share of the mony lent by Sir Charles Cotterell ? Mrs. Duffett . My Lady Ivy gave him in my sight 200 l. of Sir Charles Cotterell's mony . Mr. Williams . Do you know any body else that had any of that mony ? Mrs. Duffet . The Attorney had 200 l. of the same mony too . L. C. I. What Attorny do you mean ? Mrs. Duffett . Mr. Sutton . L. C. I. Had he so , how come he to deserve it ? Mr. Dobbins . Pray , Madam , what do you know of counterfeiting any Seals ? Mrs. Duffett . Mr. Duffett once had the Impression of a Seal in his Hand , which he said he was going to one Mr. Dryden to have it counterfeited , but I do not remember what the Seal was . Mr. Williams . When the Deeds were written , how did he use to put the names to them ? Mrs. Duffett . I have seen my Lady her self write some great Letters of the Names first upon other Papers , which Mr Duffett could not so well hit , and he has writ the rest . Mr. Williams . Can you tell the Names ? Mrs. Duffett . Truly I do not remember what Names . Mr. Williams . We have another Witness who will give you an account of some Letters of my Ladies , which we shall desire to be read . Swear Mrs. Elizabeth Rycaut . [ Which was done . ] Mr. Att. Gen. She talks of Glovers Lease — L. C. I. She says she doth not know whether that be the Deed , there were so many forged , Mr. Attorney . But she swears thus , my Husband did forge a Writing he called Glovers Lease . Mrs. Duffett . She had two or three Mortgages forfeited . Mr. Williams . Come Mrs. where had you these Letters ? Mrs. Rycott . I had these Letters from Mr. Duffett . Mr. Williams . Pray where had you these Bottles ? Mrs. Rycott . This is the Ink I saw Mr. Duffett write for my Lady Ivy with , at Mrs. Lee's House at the Table in the Kitchin. L. C. I. Who did he write for ? Mrs. Rycott . For my Lady Ivy , I did not know what they were that were-written , but he said they were forged ; and with Ink out of these Bottles he said he could make new written Writings look like Old ones very soon . Mr. Williams . Did you ever speak with my Lady Ivy ; do you know her Hand ? Mrs. Rycott . I do not know these Letters to be her Hand , but Mr. Duffett gave me them as her Letters . Mr. Williams . Sir Charles Cotterell , pray will you look upon them ; you know my Lady Ivy's Hand . Sir Charles Cotterell . I do so — they are all of a Hand , and I think they are my Ladies ; I believe it truly . Clerk. ( Reads ) This is signed T. I. All the Letters were read . Mr. Williams . Your Lordship sees one of these Letters tells Mr. Duffett she intends to set Sir William Salkills Mortgage on foot , and should have half what she recovered . If it were a true Mortgage , why should she give him half ? L. C. I. They were very great together , that is plain , they were very Familiar . What were Mr. Duffett's Merits towards my Lady I cannot tell . Will you go on ? it is late . Mr. Williams . This is all we shall offer at present , till we have Occasion further from them . L. C. I. Well , what say you to this , Mr. Attorney ? Mr. Att. Gen. If they have done — L. C. I. They have they say . Mr. Att. Gen. Then may it please your Lordship , and you , Gentlemen of the Jury , I shall begin to answer their Evidence about the First . They have produced some Argumentative Evidence out of many Records to convict our Deeds of Forgery . In truth , if they had not brag'd of this very thing , it had been a shrewd Objection , because we could not have been prepared to have given an answer to what we could not have foreseen , we should have been accused of . But upon their Boasts they have put us upon the search as well as they , and we can give as good an Account of it . They tell you they had their Hint from my Lord Coke , but that hint has lead them into a great Error , for he is mistaken himself in the Computation of this Time , as he is in a great many other things . Mr. Bradbury . I know he is mistaken , but I depend not upon his Remarks of that time . I said only I had the general Hint about detecting Forgeries from thence . Mr. Att. Gen. But yet for all your Confidence of the Demonstration , your Foundation fails : For , My Lord , to settle the Fact , we shall shew that the King of Spain , Charles V , who was likewise Emperor , resigned his Crown the 25th of October , in the 2d and 3d Years of Philip and Mary . It is true , the Parliament Rolls , in the Title of them relating to the first Day of the Session , there the Style that was used at first , could not be altered . But the Fact of their being the King and Queen of Spain , was so notorious to all the World , that we shall shew you in Multitudes of the Rolls of that Year the Style was in our Deeds ; so that the Use might be various , but that will not prove our Deeds forged . It may be the Courts of Law might not take notice of it , as to alter the Style till Trinity Term , though we have not searched so far among them , but the common Conveyances which are upon Record in the Rolls , there it is altered . And as to the time of their becoming King and Queen of Spain , we have an History that tells you the very Day when the King resigned , which was the 25th of October . L. C. I. I tell you , Gentlemen , methinks Mr. Attorney has been very fortunate to Day in giving very satisfactory Answers to two Objections : First , they would quite destroy Mr. Neale's Title to this Land , by a piece of Evidence that they had never had but that Mr. Neale had bragged of it , and that was the Survey which with much Confidence of the Victory was produced , and yet , when it was so to me , it seemed the stabbingest Enemy the Defendants cause had , but that you are to have with you , and must Judge upon it . Now he tells you again , Mr. Neale has been a Blab of his Tongue , and could not keep the Secret to himself , but must brag that the Deeds were forged , for the Style of the Queen's Reign is changed ; and by this bragging they have smoked the Business , and can shew Records for it . But now instead of Records , the Upshot is a little lousy History : Can that be an answer to those great Numbers of Records brought by the other side ? Is a printed History , written by I know not who , an Evidence in a Court of Law ? Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , besides that , which we must submit to your Judgment , whether upon such a point of Fact in a foreign Country to be done such a Day , a Foreigners History not printed for this purpose , shall be a sort of Evidence , but I say , besides that , here is a Gentleman , Mr. Clerk , that searched the Roll , and he will tell you what they are in this point . Mr. Clark. I did search in the Rolls , and find many in that Year like these . And my Lord Coke is utterly mistaken , he says it was not altered till the 4th and 5th Years of Phil. and Mary . L. C. I. I care not what my Lord Coke says , but what the Records say , let us see them . Mr. Clerk. I saw a great many in that Year . L. C. I. Lord , Gentlemen , what do you make of us , to keep us here with I do not know what : Mr. Attorney he tells us that Mr. Neale was so great a Block-head to brag of this , and so we were prepared for an Answer ; but all the Answer is , my Lord Coke is mistaken , and there are many Records , but we have none of them , Praemoniti , Praemuniti . If he did brag so , and you knew it , and would not bring Records to wipe off the Objection , it is ten times worse than if it had been answered only with the unexpectedness of it . Mr. Bradbury . My Lord , I dare affirm that there are none of the Rolls of that Year so , till after Easter-Term — L. C. I. Lord , Sir , you must be cackling too ; we told you , your Objection was very ingenious , but that must not make you troublesom , you cannot lay an Egg , but you must be cackling over it . The Objection is now upon them , let them answer it if they can . Have you any of the Records here ? Mr. Sol. Gen. We have not , it seems , my Lord. L. C. I. Then this must pass unanswered , and must be left to the Jury . Mr. Sol. Gen. But , my Lord , they have gone a little farther in this Case , and indeed farther than becomes them I think , to lay Aspersions upon my Lady Ivy , as if she were frequently guilty of Forgery . And for that Sir Charles Cotterel swears that she did pretend she had a mortgage of a House in St. Martins-lane for 1500 l. and this Mortgage he says he was told of by some that did see it , whereupon he did likewise desire to see it , and without seeing of it , he declared he would never be satisfied of the Reality of the thing , and thereupon Mr. Serjeant West brought it him , and he saw it , but was not permitted to see the Witnesses Names , and thereupon he was more dissatisfied than before about it . But if Sir Charles Cotterel had given any the least Intimation of such a thing , now we would have gratified them with a sight of it in Court , where he should have had his full view , for my Lady has it still , and it is a true Mortgage , and for a real Consideration . But he says this is released , and she did that as is supposed to suppress any Inquiry after it . But with Reverence to Sir Charles Cotterell , the Fact is otherwise . My Lady Salthill pretended to a Debt from my Lady Ivy for Nine Years Diet for Four Persons , and the Reckoning being made according to my Lady Ivy's Quality , was made so high , that it paid off the Mortgage : But he has the Deed still — L. C. I. But what say you to the Deed of Sale , and my Friend Sutton's Notes out of the Lease ; and the Debt of 96 l. and 4 l. but a little before acknowledged by my Lady Ivy — Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord , in answer to that we say , he has been pleased to give it a great deal of Garniture , and as he is Master of the Ceremonies to adorn the Story with abundance of Flourishes of his own Kindness and Interests — L. C. I. Mr. Solicitor , you are not to judge of that whether it be Flourish only or Substance , the Court and the Jury are the Judges of that , and truly I think it very material to the Cause . I assure you I do let the Dirt be taken off as it can , it sticks very much , I must speak my mind . Mr. Sol. Gen. When I am over-ruled I acquiesce in the Judgment of the Court. L. C. I. Pray , Sir , apply your self to answer the Evidence . Mr. Sol. Gen. So I do , my Lord , as well as I can . The next Witness is this Gentlewoman , Mrs. Duffet ; she swears that she saw her Husband , Mr. Duffett , counterfeit many Deeds , she does not particularize them : And here have been likewise several Letters read , that did import a Transaction and Correspondence between my Lady Ivy and him . L. C. I. Pray , Mr. Sollicitor , remember she swears she saw that Lease of Salthills , and that called Glover's Lease . Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord , this Witness that swears this , is not only a Person unfit to be believed ; but is contradicted by a Record , and for that , my Lord , it stands thus : Mr. Iohnson as is well known , had his Tryal for the matter about which she now swears : For Mr. Iohnson on the behalf of Alderman Ireton , undertook to pay 500 l. to Mr. Duffett , to procure somebody to swear that the Deed called Glover's Lease to be forged . Upon this there was an Information exhibited in this Court against Mr. Iohnson , for Subornation ; and upon full Evidence Iohnson was Convicted for his Endeavour . And the Record of that Conviction we have here , and desire to have produced and read . L. C. I. And I tell you , Mr. Solicitor , that is no Evidence in this Case . Mr. Sol. Gen. Why , pray , good my Lord ? Did not they here just now swear her ? L. C. I. But the Information put in by Mr. Attorney Noy , pray remember , was not suffered to be read , because not against any of the Parties , but third Persons . Mr. Sol. Gen. But pray , my Lord , give me leave to apply it to the Objection here made in our Case to the Credit of our Deeds . They say it is suspicious , because my Lady Ivy used to forge Deeds , and particularly Duffett they say , did once forge for her Glover's Lease . Now to answer that , we come to shew that my Lady Ivy did not forge Glover's Lease , but there was indeed an Art used to persuade Duffett to swear it forged , when indeed it was not , for which Trick , Iohnson , that was the Agent or Instrument , was convicted , and that Conviction is , I think , a good Evidence that it was not forged . L. C. I. None in the World , Mr. Sollicitor , and that from the very Evidence that has been given in this Cause this Day : For it is plain , if you will believe this Woman ( and I yet see no cause to the contrary ) that she was coming into the Court to have sworn the Truth , which would have perhaps cleared Iohnson , but my Lady Ivy would needs keep her away . Now if Duffett were so great a Rogue as to forge , he would not stick to swear to protect that Forgery ; and then how easy a thing was it , had Iohnson been the greatest Saint in the World , to have got him convicted upon what Duffett came to swear against him , though had she come then in , Duffett would have appeared one not at all fit to be credited . Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord , I have then one thing more to offer , I cannot tell indeed whether it be material , for it seems I have been so unhappy as to offer some things that have not been though material — L. C. I. You have so indeed , Mr. Solicitor , I must speak the Truth , there have been several things offered as Evidence , which in another cause and Place would not I am sure have been offered . Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord , I submit what I offer for my Client to the Judgment of the Court. But that which I would say now is this : We have here the Husband's Oath concerning this matter , that this Woman who now takes upon her to swear these Forgeries and things , told him she could have 500 l. if she would swear against my Lady Ivy. L. C. I. Is that Evidence against the Wife ? Mr. Sollicitor . He is now dead it seems , but here is his Oath . L. C. I. Pray consider with your self , could the Husband have been a Witness against the Wife about what she told him upon an Information for that Offence of Subornation . Mr. Sol. Gen. No , my Lord , I think not . L. C. I. Could the Wife be an Evidence against the Husband for the Forgery ? Mr. Sol. Gen. No , my Lord , she could not ; and yet she swears it upon him here . L. C. I. That is not against him , Man , he is out of the Case , but against my Lady Ivy ; and how can the Oath of the Husband be Evidence here . Mr. Att. Gen. Cryer , call Mr. Gibson to give an account of this Gentlewoman . Mr. Sol. Gen. Suppose my Lord , that both Husband and Wife were brought as Evidence against my Lady Ivy , were that good ? L. C. I. Certainly that were very good . Mr. Sol. Gen. Why then my Lord , one of them says , that she saw such and such things done by Lady Ivy , and by him for her ; and the other says , such things were not done , but she confessed she could have 500 l. to swear they were done : Shall not this Evidence be admitted to contradict the other ? L. C. I. Why , good Lord , Gentlemen , is the Philosophy of this so witty , that it need be so confidently urged ? is it good Logick , that because they both were good Witnesses against my Lady Ivy , therefore either of them is a good Witness against the other ? Shall the Husband's Oath be read against the Wife to fix a Crime upon her ? Sure you do not intend this should pass for Argument , but to spend time . Cryer . Here is Gibson now , Sir. Mr. Att. Gen. Swear him . [ Which was done . ] Mr. Sol. Gen. We are not , now my Lord , examining what Duffett swore about Forgery or not Forgery ; but is not this Confession of hers an Argument against the Credit of her Testimony , who now says she saw my Lady Ivy do so and so , when she has confessed she could have Money to swear against my Lady Ivy. L. C. I. But , Mr. Sollicitor , if you will not apprehend the Question I cannot help it : is it not the Husband that swears against the Wife ? Mr. Att. Gen. Do you know that Gentlewoman there , Gibson ? Gibson . I have heard of her . L. C. I. Nay , be not angry , Mr. Solicitor , for if you be we cannot help that neither . The Law is the Law for you as well as me . Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord , I must take the Rule from you now . L. G. I. And so you shall , Sir , from the Court , as long as I sit here ; and so shall every body else , by the Grace of God. I assure you I care not whether it please or displease : we must not have our time taken up with impertinent things , for I must say there have been as many offered in this Cause to day , as ever were in any Cause that ever I heard , and if all be not as some will have it , then they must be in Passion presently . The Court gives all due Respects , and expects them . Mr. Att. Gen. Have you any acquaintance with that Woman ? Gibson . I have seen her a great while ago . Mr. Att. Gen. What do you know of her ? what Reputation is she of ? Gibson . I know nothing of her Reputation ; I know she was Mr. Duffett's Wife . L. C. I. And so do we , she tells us so : What then ? Gibson . I have seen her abed with Mr. Frogmorton , and she told me she had then a Frog in her Belly . Mr. Williams . It seems then by having this Gentleman so ready , they were aware of this too : I suppose Mr. Neale brag'd of this too , or else the guilty Conscience put them upon preparing for it . But yet I think they do us no great harm by it . Mr. Att. Gen. You will give our Evidence an Answer I suppose by and by : But we will go on to the rest of yours . As to the Bill and Answer in the Year 1629. In that of Iohn Stepkins , it is said , he makes the Bounds Eastward to be Foxes-lane : But it is plain , he that gives in that Answer was not acquainted with the Transactions of the Estate before his own time . And if you consider the time of that Answer , there was near Fourscore Years then past since the Lease made , and so long it had been out of the Family rendering a Pepper-corn Rent , and so the profitable Interest was only the Four Acres surrendered to him by the Tenant , before the Licence to Alien . And it appears not that he had any Notice of the Reversion . But I observe in the Answer there is one Passage remarkable : That there was a way time out of Mind that did part his Land and that which was reputed the Dean and Chapters Land. Now that doth not tie it up to make Foxes-lane that same way ; but only says generally there was an old way which must be understood of the way down from Cock-hill to Bell-wharf : So that I take it that is no conclusion upon us . Nor upon the same Ground is that Lease made 13 Iacobi by Iohn Stepkins , where he abutts his Land upon that Wall which is called Wall-marsh-wall , and covenants to have the Rent increased , if any thing beyond that be recovered . For there was near Threescore Years to come then of this Lease , and he had no pretence of Title to contest it at that time , and so the Verdicts are all answered that way , the Lease expired not till the Year 1680. Mr. Sol. Gen. Then , my Lord , for the Survey that they produce of the late times by Order of the Committee of Parliament for Sale of Church-lands ; how that should give a Title , I do not understand . It is the first time I ever heard of a Particular of Dean and Chapters Lands to be an Evidence , when at that time there was no Dean and Chapter . But that which is a clear Answer to it is this ; Winterburn , who had the Lease from the Church did also claim under Marcellus Hall , who had a Lease for Ninety Years : That in time expired in the Year 1640. That Interest being then determined he gets these put into the Survey ( which it was his interest to do ) as the Inheritance of the Church , which would gain him a Fee Simple upon his Purchase , he concealing the long Lease , and they being so long in Possession , whereas otherwise he could only have an Estate for Years : and it appears all the Deeds were in his Custody at that time ; For the other Witnesses that speak to the Wall that we must leave to the Juries Consideration upon the Ballance of the Evidence : For , with Submission , my Lord , taking the Evidence as it stands together , if that Lease of Marcellus Hall be a good Lease , these several Conveyances we produce are supported and do explain that : He surrenders four Acres , which are the Lands that are afterwards conveyed to Fox , which is mentioned in the deed of his Surrender to be the Green Hilly Bank , and that was the Boundary of the four Acres , but what becomes of the other seven Acres and an half , they have given no account of it hitherto . But surely , my Lord , upon that first Survey , I take it , there is a strong Evidence concurring with our Assertion , for that saith , the South Boundary of the Dean's Lynches is Wall Marsh , now then , if there be seven Acres to go forward from thence , that just reacheth up to Cock-hill . And all the other Bounds plainly concur with ours ; and upon the perusal of the Survey which it is consented to on both sides , the Jury shall have with them , I believe they will be satisfied our Bounds and that agree . Upon the whole Evidence I submit it for the Defendant . We have done , my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. Only I would ask Mr. Sutton a Question ; whether the Bill and Answer now given in Evidence , were not given in in Evidence at the last Tryal . Sutton . Yes , it was . Mr. Att. Gen. And yet the Verdict went for us then , as I hope it will now . L. C. I. Have you all done , Gentlemen ? Will you say any thing for the Plaintiff ? Mr. Williams . No my Lord , we leave it to your Lordship and the Jury . L. C. I. Then Gentlemen of the Jury , This Evidence has been very long ; I think the Tryal has held us as long as any Cause that ever happened in Westminster-Hall of this Nature ; I mean , except one , this many Years . I think we met with but one in all our Books , that held near so long : That indeed was rather something longer , the famous Cause of Colt in this Court , but besides that , I never heard of a Cause of this length before . But , Gentlemen , it is a Cause of Value , and a Cause of great Weight and Consideration ; it hath depended in the Evidence of it upon abundance of Circumstances , so that it may be impossible for me to remember all the Evidence that has been given . But as neat as I can I will give you what Assistance I am able , in recollecting what has been said on both sides . Some of you I have observed have taken Notes , and that will save me and you some trouble ; I will give you a Scheme fairly of that which is the Question . And it will be very much more ease to you , because you have had a View of the Matter , than can be thought I can make it by any Direction of mine . The Question in short is , Whether seven Acres and an half of Land , now built upon to a very great value , as the Witnesses say 2000 l. a year , lying on the East-side of the Lane that is called by the name of Fox's Lane , betwixt that and the Mill , called Ratcliff Mill , be part of the Marsh that formerly belonged to the Family of the Stepkins's ; or whether or no that be not part of the Dean and Chapter of Pauls Inheritance . If it belong to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls , then the Issue is with the Lessor of the Plaintiff ; but if it be the Inheritance of the Stepkins's , and part of the Marsh-land , and was so according to the ancient boundaries , then the Issue is with the Defendant . The Plaintiff comes and shews for his Title . First , That this was all along enjoyed under the Church of Pauls Leases . Knowles who formerly did receive the Rents of the very thing in Question till ( 77 ) before this Question , says , in his Testimony , he received them in the Right , and on the behalf of Mr. Neal , who claims by Lease from the Dean of St. Pauls . That is not sufficient to maintain his Title , but they come and shew the Original , and in point of time 5 H. 8. they say that one Dean Collett made a Lease of the Lands in Question for 45 years . And to prove this , a Book is produced to you , wherein there is a short Entry made which takes no notice at all of any thing more , but that there was such a Lease of a Mill in Shadwell with the appurtenances . But upon their producing that Writing , it is found to be a Paper Writing , and there was an Objection , and a material one , made upon the Face of the Thing it self . For there were two places that seemed to be suspicious as made directly to humour an Evidence of such a Lease in 5 H. 8. having Dr. Collett's name inserted , who hapned to be Dean of Pauls at that time : Whereas Nowell was originally the Name that was set there , with the same hand that the other part of the Writing was . Thereupon it came to be enquired into , how it came to pass that Nowels Name was struck out and Collets put in . That seemed to insinuate , as if this was contrived on purpose to shoar up an Evidence , and humour the time . For it could not be imagined , that Nowell should come to be Dean when that Lease was made , who was not Dean till so long after , in Queen Elizabeths time as I take it . Now had this Objection met with this Book alone , it would have made the Evidence Lame , and they would have been thought to have set an ill Leg forwards . But to take off that , they come after and shew a Parchment Scrole , which takes notice likewise of such a Lease : And their Officer Spencer says he had seen that Scrole many years , and so it could not be a new thing for this purpose . It is an old Rental , or some such thing , in time in some short time after , where is mention made of a Lease by Dean Collett , 5 H. 8. for 45 Years , which humours the time exactly , and supports the Credit of the other Evidence . This is that they give as an Answer to that Objection . It might be a mistake as to the Name , but this will shew that it was not a contrived matter for this purpose . The next Peice of Evidence they go to is 5 Ed. 6. and for that time they come and produce Leases , those that are at least in Law evidences of Leases , and those are the Church Books , Ancient Books that have been always read and allowed for Evidence . And thereby they shew that one Dr. May , then Dean of St. Pauls , viz. 23 Feb. 5 Ed. 6. did let the Lands in Question to Ioan Hall and Marcellus Hall , and he let it as the Dean and Chapter of Paul's Lands for 45 years at the Rent of 10 l. a year . Then they tell you in the 2d and 3d of Phil. and Mar. 10 December , one Deane Fecknam takes notice of the former Leases , and lets it to Marcellus Hall ; and that is for 90 years , wherein there is the Old Rent taken notice of , and some Increase made : And there is in that Lease a Covenant to repair the Mill , and that has given a Rise to something that makes part of the present Question , which they that are for the Defendant call a License to remove the Mill. You Gentlemen will have the Deeds with you , and are to judge of them . The Leases from 5 H. 8. to this Dean Fecknam , are only Leases made for years , and by reason of these Leases for Years , and the long Lease which they pretend to , the Defendants Counsel insist upon it , that they could not be let in to controvert the Plaintiffs Title , for the last Lease for 128 years from Stepkins to Hall , expired in time but in the Year 1680. Now say the Plaintiffs Counsel ( and they produce that which is very material in the Case ) 5 Aug. 1636. This was then let to one Mary More , the Relict of one Adrian More , formerly the Assignee of the Lease that came from Dean Fecknam to Marcellus Hall. And there instead of continuing it a Lease for Years , he lets to Mary Moor , in consideration of the former Leases , and turns it into an Estate for three Lives . So far then was the Dean of Pauls from apprehending himself to be but Lessee for Years , that he takes upon him to create Freeholds , which only he that has the Inheritance can do . They go on further , and tell you , That in 1640. the same Dean of St. Pauls , she having sold her Interest to one Whitwick and Winterburn , there is a new Estate made to them for three Lives . These continue in Possession under that Lease , till Mr. Neal purchased in their Interest ; and his Grace of Canterbury , then Dean Sandcroft , he made another Lease to the said Mr. Neal for three Lives , and there is a great Increase of Rent , 80 l. during the Life of one of the former Surviving Lives , and then to 100 l. Then comes the Lease made to the now Lessors of the Plaintiff by this Reverend Divine that is here , now Dr. Stillingfleet , the present Dean of St. Pauls at yearly 240 l. And this is the substance of the Evidence first given by the Plaintiff : For his Title which is underneath that last Lease of Dean Stillingfleet , which they say is a good Title ; and in case it doth appear that the Lands are the Inheritance of the Dean of Pauls , ' it is not controverted by the Defendants , but that the Plaintiff must have a Verdict for him . But say they which are for the Defendants , this is not their Inheritance , but the Defendants ; and to prove their Objection , they produce abundance of Deeds , of which , as well as I can , I will give you a punctual and particular account . For with all the faith and fidelity I can , I will give you the Substance of what has been said on both sides . First , It is not to be doubted , for it is beyond all Contradiction plain , there were 130 Acres of Marsh-land , Lands covered with Water , which one Vander-Delf , a Dutchman , undertook to Drain , and had an Act of Parliament made Anno 27 H. 8. to encourage him for his endeavours to drain it , giving him the one half . That Act of Parliament is produced , and it is there said to be 130 Acres . Now you are to take notice of the boundaries of this Marsh-land , as making the state of this Question . The Act of Parliament bounds the Marsh upon the Hermitage , or such a Mill , called Grash-Mill , upon the West . It is bounded on the High-way , leading to Ratcliff , on the North , which is called Ratcliff High-way to this day ; it is bounded to the River of Thames on the South , and it is bounded upon the Town of Ratcliff towards the East . Afterwards in H. 8 ths time comes in Richard Hill , who was owner of some part of this Marsh ( Vander-Delfs moiety ) and he in time 32 H. 8. became indebted to one Salvago and another , and there he comes and acknowledges a Statute to them for their Debt . And because I would have you have all things before your view that were done at one time ) in the same Year there is a Mortgage made of the Lands of Richard Hill ( among which they for the Defendant apprehend are comprized the Lands in Question ( as Marsh-land ) to Salvago for the payment of their mony : ) and in that Mortgage the same words are made use of for the boundaries , as are in the Draining Act. This to derive their Title , they produce to shew , that there was such an Ownership , and such a Mortgage . Then they tell you that 37 H. 8. the same Richard Hill , he goes and divides some part of these Lands , that is to say Eleaven Acres and a half , and that he conveys away by Lease for 34 years to Marcellus Hall , whom I name the more particularly , because it is a Name that has been much canvassed , and gives a Countenance to the Title on both sides . Now in that Deed whereby this is thus conveyed to Marcellus Hall , there is no notice taken particularly of the Eastern boundary to be the Mill , or the Mill-bank , or the Hilly-bank . Now say they , the Mill was just upon the Point , hard by that place that is called now by the name of Cockhill , and so that Boundary doth take in the thing in Question , the seven Acres and an half , because that Deed takes notice of the Mill Hilly-bank or Way . In the next place they offer you this for Evidence , that in 6 Ed. 6. the same Richard Hill for 130 l. sells his Land to Thomas Stepkins . And when it comes to convey the Inheritance to him , it is laid to be under the same boundaries , as are mentioned there bounded on the Hilly-bank or Mill-bank Eastward . Now , say they , that sheweth plainly , that still the Mill was the thing that was intended to the Boundary ; and there being seven Acres and an half of Land between the Mill and the Western bounds , those seven Acres cannot be construed to extend to a Mill with the Appurtenances , but rather it is to bound upon the Mill and include the Lands , then to have the Lands go with the Mill. They proceed further and say , that Tomas Stepkins the same Year did for 50 l. let this to Marcellus Hall , for 128 years at a Pepper-corn Rent , which Lease expired but in 1680. and till now we could not come to litigate that Matter , because he had made such a Lease . But then I am to take notice by the Way , and so must you into the Bargain ; there is another boundary made there , abutting on the Well there , called Shadwell , and the way leading from Shadwell to the Lynches . After this they come to tell you further , that Marcellus Hall 22 December , 2 and 3. Phil. and Mar. let a Lease to Carter , and that was for 20 Years . Now you are to take notice that in this Lease of Carters , there is notice taken of a Mill , and about an Acre of Land thereto belonging , very carefully put in . And that say , they sheweth that your Boundary could not extend to so much as seven Acres . And to back that Evidence , they shew you a certain Survey , taken in Queen Elizabeth's time , concerning the Mannor of Stepney , which you are by consent to have with you , and you will do well to consider it well in your Perusal of it . And now comes the main Deed. Say the Defendants Counsel , it falls out that you are but Lessee under Marcellus Hall , who was Lessee under us , and was obliged in a particular Covenant , that he should not let any part of this Land without the License of our Ancestor Stepkins , who made him such a long Lease . But it hapned he had a mind to let some part of this Land to the Dean of Pauls , from whom he had a Lease of the Mill. And accordingly he had a License from Stepkins so to do , which , say they , is the reason why they come to lay claim to our Land. This they take notice to be in time , 16 Nov. 2 and 3 Phil. and Mar. When I must tell you by the Way , that the first Lease pretended by them to be made to Marcellus Hall , is the long one , 6 Ed. 6. by Thomas Stepkins ; so that Marcellus Hall came to be Lessee under the Dean and Chapter , before he had any Authority or Interest from Stepkins , nay before he had any Lease from Hill. Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord , if your Lordship pleases to remember , Marcellus Hall did take first by Lease from Richard Hill in 37 H. 8. L. C. I. Pardon me , Mr. Attorney , I did not Misrepeat it ; I say he first had a Lease from the Dean and Chapter . M. Att. Gen. That was of the Mill only — L. C. I. That is contented , and the very gist of the Question , Mr. Attorney , how much is comprehended in that Lease ? But to go on with the Defendants Evidence . Then in Novemb. 2 and 3 Phil. and Mar. is the Deed to Roper , of which I shall have occasion to say more anon . In 5 and 6 Phil. and Mar. comes Iasper Hill , the Son of Richard Hill ( the first Owner of the Land , and that entred into the Statute to Salvago , ) he makes a Conveyance to Macheline Stepkin , Thomas's his Widow and Iohn Stepkin his Heir , Mother and Son ; upon which afterwards there is a Surrender made by Marcellus Hall to Iohn Stepkins , Son and Heir of Thomas , of four Acres , which , say they , was not assigned with the other seven to the Dean of Pauls . Then in 3 Elizabeth , pursuant to the Conveyance made by Iasper Hill to the Stepkins's , there is a Fine and Recovery suffer'd , and 4 Elizabeth , a Deed to lead the Uses of that Fine which are to Iohn Stepkin , and his Mother , and the Heirs of Iohn . But still in all these Deeds and Conveyances , there is mention made of the Mill , Mill-bank , or Hilly-bank , or Hilly-way , to be the boundaries , and likewise of Shadwell . After that they produce a Bond , wherein Spinola is bound to Stepkins , to take off the Statute entred into the 32 H. 8. by Richard Hall. Then 14 Elizabeth , they produce a Commission of Sewers , where notice is taken of the several Landholders of Wapping-Marsh , who were liable to make satisfaction for any want of Repairs or defects in the Marsh. There Roper is taken notice of as a Tenant , and one Iames and Stepkins too : and they do infer from hence , that Iames and Ropers Land is part of this , and was under Stepkins , and is enjoyed to this day under the Title of the Stepkins's . They go on further , and tell you , that 15 Elizabeth , Stepkins became indebted to the Crown by taking a Tellers Debt upon him , and had a mind to secure the Debt , and therefore conveys his Land to the then Treasurer , Attorney General and Soliciter General , to secure a great Sum of Mony , and this Land they would have to pass among the Rest. Afterwards , 17 Elizabeth , the Commissioners sit again , and there is a Return made of all those that were Landholders , the same named before . Then 7 Iacobi , was there a Re-grant out of the Crown , made to Sepkins of all his Land. Wherein generally speaking the Bounds of the Land belonging to Stepkins , are called the Mill-bank , &c. This must , say they , of necessity take in the Lands in Question , otherwise it is impossible that should be the Boundary . And they make use of this further Argument ; say they , We have taken a Survey of all the Lands , those in Question and the other Marsh-lands , from Hermitage-dock , alias St. Katherines , even to this Mill ; and it doth just humour the Number of Acres in the Act for draining Wapping-marsh , that is to say , it makes just 130 Acres . All which they say plainly belongs to the Stepkins's . Thy then come to examine their Living Witnesses , and they have produced them in this Order as I name them . Their Witnesses have been as they are in my Paper . One Hughs , and Somerley , and Holmes , and Barefoot , and Cope , and Holwell . And the substance of what they say is this : The Old Woman Barefoot says , she has known the place in Question this threescore and odd Years ; she remembers well the Scituation of it , and that the Water drove another Mill first , and did not come near to Foxes-lane by a Quarter of a Mile , but run more to the North. And this Land , she says , was always reckoned to be Stepkins's , and she never knew any one have any thing to do there but they . And in as much as there was some discourse concerning a Well , she says she doth remember there was a Well between Foxes-lane and the Mill , and that was half a Mile off Foxes-lane , and was always called Shadwell . She remembers it so well , that if there were as many Wells as there are Pains in the Glass Window before you , that was the right Well , and there was no other , Well called Shadwell , but that . Then Hughs tells you , he remembred the Land before it was built upon , that at Common Ordinary Tides , the Water used to come up to Foxes-lane , and at High-tides over it ; but the Land has been raised much higher since that . Then Cope , he gives an account of his knowing it above threescore Years ago , and he in general says , he did not know how far Westward the Water went that drove the Mill ; but Foxes-lane , he says , was the way from North to South , westward of the Mill , and he knew not any way Eastward of the Mill but Foxes-lane , for Cockhill is Eastward of the Mill. And much like to this was the Testimony of the other Witnesses ; which being done , they concluded with the Evidence of the Surveyor Holwell , about the admeasurement . And this , as I remember or can collect , is the Substance of the Defendants Evidence before the Plaintiffs Reply . And then as to that which was offered by the Defendants , as Evidence of the Boundaries , the Plaintiffs give this Answer ; and it is that which will be the Pinching Question in this Cause to all Eternity ; whether or no , Mill-bank , or Mill-hill , or the Hilly-way , or whatsoever else it is called in their Old Deeds , be not that which is now called Foxes-lane . Say they , First , by your own Evidence , that same Ancient Survey that you produced , and which , by Consent , you Gentlemen of the Jury are to have with you ; there is notice taken of 130 Acres that belongs to the Marsh , there is notice taken of Lynches , as belonging to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . But then in the last Paragraph of the Back-side of the Leaf ( so we call the second side , for distinction sake ) you will find this taken notice of ; Which said Marsh doth bound on the Lands hereafter mentioned on the East . And what are the Lands thereafter mentioned . These you will find , Item . holden by the Dean and Chapter of Pauls , one Messuage called Derrick hills , another Tenement called so and so , and several Orchards , Gardens and Ponds , &c. and a Water-mill thereunto belonging . So that there was on the East-part of the Marsh-Land , Orchards , Gardens , a Messuage , a Tenement , Waters , Ponds , Fishings , and a Mill , and several other things . Now if in case the Eastern Boundaries of the Marsh came up to the Mill you speak of , how comes it to pass , that you your self in your own Survey , make the Eastern bounds to be upon these Lands , and all these belonging to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . And when they come to read the Particulars of what belonged to the Dean and Chapter , that Survey bounds to the Dean and Chapters Land upon the Marsh-land . You that have been upon the View may the better understand it ; and you see the Eastern part of the Mill was the Wast-ground , and made a Lane to carry down Ballast , as the Witnesses say . This doth just humour all the Old Boundaries . Nay to shew that this is really so , they say , That in time , in the Year 1615. there was an Action commenced before my Lord Chief Justice Coke , when he fate in this Court , wherein this Controversie arose . Fox , who was as well Tenant to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls , as he was to Stepkins , he comes , and he builds upon that old Wall , called Wall marsh-wall , which begot a Contest betwixt Stepkins who was the Ancestor of my Lady Ivy , and this Fox , and upon that Contest this was the Question , Whether there had been any Incroachment upon the Marsh ? Not but that the Wall was reckoned even by Stepkins , to be the Boundary , though running as Stepkins said , Twenty Foot into the East part of the Marsh ; and there Stepkins was nonsuited . Afterwards it came into the Common-Pleas , and there there was a Verdict whereby it was setled that the whole Wall belonged to the Dean and Chapter of Pauls . But afterwards Mrs. Moor , the Lessee of the Church would not be quiet with this , but exhibits a Bill against Iohn Stepkins , and others , and to settle the Boundaries , because he pretended Incroachments upon his ground . They therefore require him to ascertain the matter upon his Oath . He in his Answer confesseth he had heard of the Verdict before-mentioned , but knew nothing of it himself , but when he comes to set forth the Boundaries , he is so far from taking Notice that the Boundaries take in the Lands in question , that he tells you there was an ancient Bank which was the ordinary Bounds between his Land and the Land of the Church ; and this is a High-way , a common High-way . But it was true as he believed they had incroached , though such a Verdict and Nonsuit were obtained by them . Not that ever he pretended to any thing on the Eastern part of that Passage or Bank ( called Foxes-lane ) but he pretended to Twenty Foot on the Western Part of it as an Encroachment . They say further too , that notwithstanding all this , Iohn Stepkins was not so confident of his Title to even those Twenty Foot on the West part , but that he comes and makes a Bargain with another Man , I will lett you this East part of the Marsh-land , and if I recover any of the Wall you shall pay such a Rent for it ; but if not , you shall hold it as you did before . So jealous he was of his Title , even to that which he thought was incroached upon . And they fix it thus to humour and explain the Particulars mentioned of Orchards , Ponds , Gardens , &c. for here were a great many Sluces and Cutts for the Water to be received in , and so all may well be comprehended under the Name of a Mill with the Appurtenances , and that they say goeth a great way in the Question . You are to consider of it , Gentlemen . Then they further shew , that whereas the other side surmise the Boundary to be Shadwell which they would have to be placed a great way higher , by the place called Cock-hill ; here comes an Old Man that tells you he knew the place Sixty Years ago and above , and there was no other Well called Shadwell , but that which was where now the Church stands , and that is on the West part of Foxes-lane . Now I must tell you upon the Evidence it is pretty strong , because he gives such an account of it that it was bricked over , and a common Well to all People , which must make the thing very notorious ; and he never heard of any other Well called Shadwell . It is true there might be a Spring on the one side of this Ground in Question , and the other , you have heard the Evidence on both sides , I must leave it at large to you . Then to make the thing more plain , they offer to you that this was a Tide-mill , and not as the Defendant pretends an Overshot-mill ; and that is notoriously plain it is so , and it is against Sense it should be otherwise . Here was one that wrought at the Mill , and his Father before him Sixty Years : Nay , it appears that to have Water to drive an Overshot-Mill in that Place must drown the whole Level , because it must be raised so much higher than the Wheel ; and if so , that stands higer than the place , were it raised never so high , of late called Foxes lane . But there were Tides that came within Twenty Foot of it . And you must give me leave to tell you , I understand so much of it , that a Tide-mill is never suffered to have the Water just swim up and back again , but they have Cutts to retain the Water a while that it may go the easier off . And so the great Number and length of the Cutts , and Ponds , and Ditches here , were but only Receptacles , and Basins to receive the Tide , which did not rise ( as they tell you it should not ) above half the Wheel . The Nature of the thing it self speaks against what they would have it to be ; and to strengthen the Argument , they have called Five or Six , or more Witnesses that have known it all along so to be : And yet this I apprehend the other side take to be their most material Point to make it Marsh-ground . But the Council for the Plaintiff say this further to you ; They have a Survey taken in Oliver's Time , which they produced , but were opposed by the Council of the other side , and I must confess I did wonder to hear the Objection , that it was strange this should be surveyed as Dean and Chapters Lands , in a time when there were no Deans and Chapters ; whereas it was surveyed as that which was so , while there were such things as Deans and Chapters , and it was in order to be sold as such . And upon my Word , if the Lands of the Dean and Chapters Inheritance were no bigger than the Defendant would have them there was a good round Summ paid to the State for the Mill only , but alas , you have a Witness that tells you ( there being in the Survey mention of one Craven ) that there was a Craven on the East part of the Ground , that had a large Orchard and Garden , and Ground . And upon this Purchase made by Winterburn , who was Lessee of the Church , the Plaintiffs Council do raise a very considerable Argument that this was the Churches Inheritance : For , say they , Why should Winterburn that a Lease in being which would have continued him to be sure in Possession , and that too before all these Houses were built , ( for they talk all the fine Houses were built since the King came in ) give 9500 l. for the Inheritance under the Title of the Dean and Chapter if he knew ( as he must if he had the long Lease in his Possession ( and so Knowles swears he had ) it was not theirs , and he himself had a Lease for Thirty Years , to come under a trivial Rent of a Pepper Corn. Especially considering that those times sold lumping Penny-worths of other Peoples Lands . But then they come to the last point of Evidence , and that you must very narrowly observe and weigh . Say they because you depend so much upon Carter's Lease which takes notice of such and such Boundaries , and also that of Roper , which you pretend to be made at such a time , these we say are forged . And for it they give this Evidence . The first part is a natural legal Evidence and a proper Evidence in things of this Nature , to detect a Forgery ; an Evidence that we learn out of our Books of Law ; and it is an argumentative one . If you produce Deeds made in such a time , when say you such Titles were used , and such Prefaces made to them in their Preambles , when indeed there were no such Titles used at that time , that sheweth your Deeds are counterfeit , and Forged , and not true Deeds . And there is Digitus Dei , the Finger of God in it , that though the Design be laid deep , and the Contrivance sculk , yet Truth and Justice will appear one time or another ; and though they may put some Gull upon Justice for a while , yet it will in time be discovered to the Confusion and Shame of the Undertakers . Say they , you have taken wonderful Care to have both Deeds carry the same Flourish at the top of each of them , you call Philip and Mary King and Queen of Spain , and both Sicilies , and you put Burgundy in the Ducal Style before Millain , this is the Language of both Deeds , but that sheweth them not to be true Deeds that carrieth Forgery in the very Face of it ; for Philip and Mary never came to write themselves King and Queen of Spain and Sicily till Trinity-Term , in the Second and Third Years of their Reigns ; whereas your Deeds bear Date in November before . Till Trinity-Term Naples was a Kingdom , and they were but Princes of Spain and Sicily . And besides , they used always before that time to put Millain among the Dukedoms first before Burgundy . For Instances and Proofs of this Objection , they shew you the Titles of the Acts of Parliament in that Year , in October , November , and December ; they shew you the Fines levied in Hillary-Term , and Easter-Term , and Trinity-Term ; till which Term the Records of the Kingdom of Fines and Recoveries bore all the old Style , and so do the Conveyances enrolled and not enrolled of that time . And with great Bravery they challenge the Defendants Council to shew any one Conveyance or Record ( except those of your own making ) that is otherwise . And as a further Evidence they say ; we have some Leases entred in our Books , and so not calculated for this purpose , which have no other than the Old Style of the King and Queen . And in truth this is a material Evidence to prove these to be forged Deeds : and it is made the more material by this Circumstance which Mr. Attorney was pleased to mention , and that is the Notice they had from Mr. Neale's bragging of this very Objection to their Deeds , and yet they should not come prepared to give it an Answer . And I must deal plainly with you , that very one thing makes it an Objection of very great Weight and Moment . But still , say they , besides all this Evidence we shall go a step further , and evince the likelihood that these Deeds should be forged , for your Client , the Defendant is apt to forge Deeds . And to prove that we produce this Evidence . First of all , Sir Charles Cotterel gives you an account of a long Story which doth not only reach the Defendant , my Lady Ivy , but it looks very bad upon my Friend Sutton too , who , if Sir Charles Cotterel swears true , is a very Knave . Now Sir Charles Cotterel , though he does not swear he saw her Forge the Mortgage she pretended to from Sir William Salthill , yet he gives a shrewd Evidence to make it untowardly suspicious : For he tells you upon Sir William's Death , my Lady Ivy was so far from pretending to any Debt from Sir William , that upon Accounts stated between my Lady and her , she was indebted to Sir William 96 l. which upon her parting from her Husband , and being under great Want , Sir William had lent her , besides his relieving her otherways : And , says Sir Charles Cotterell , I was present when she took 4 l. more of my Lady Salthill's Money , and then acknowledged her self to owe my Lady 100 l. After this , my Lady Ivy , without the seeking or intreaty of Sir Charles Cotterell , comes to him , and , says she , Does not my Lady Salthill owe you Money ? Yes ; said he , she does fourscore Pound ; but I live in her House , and can soon eat it out in Rent . But , says my Lady Ivy , she has a mind you should have the House made as a Security to you . Good now how comes my Lady Ivy to be so concerned for Sir Charles Cotterell's Security , when he was not concerned for himself : Nay , and why should she be so earnest to have him have a Security upon that House , which if it were true , was Mortgaged before to her self . If her Mortgage were a true one , this Practice carrieth no great Face of Honesty or Vertue in it , I must needs say , I crave leave to make that Observation by the way . Ay , but into the Bargain , when Sir Charles Cotterell yielded to her Importunities , Mr. Sutton is the Man that must be intrusted to draw the Writing , and to that purpose must see my Lord of Salisbury's Lease , who is the Head Landlord . What needed that ? I suppose it was recited in my Lady Ivy's Mortgage before : But he must take Notes out of it , forsooth , to make over the Lease and House as a Security to Sir Charles Cotterell for 80 l. And when it is brought as such , knowing no otherwise , Sir Charles Cotterell takes it , and they two , my Lady Ivy and Sutton are Witnesses to it . What it proved afterwards you hear , an absolute Deed of Sale , and yet all this while , my Lady Ivy ( who as Sir Charles Cotterell understood it , was indebted an 100 l. to Sir William Salthill ) has a Debt of 1500 l. owing from Sir William by Mortgage to her on the same House . Sir. Charles Cotterell . My Lord , I am ready to make it all good . L. C. I. First of all , I say , it was not well done if there were such a Security for 1500 l. to persuade Sir Charles to accept the House as a Security for his Fourscore Pound , without telling him of the Prior Mortgage . Then it is strange she should acknowledge her self indebted 100 l. upon her taking the Four Pounds from my Lady Salthill , if she had so great a Summ owing her . And what a slovenly Answer is that given by the Council for my Lady Ivy , that she and others were called upon for Nine Years Diet ? Whereas Sir Charles Cotterell swears she owned her self upon the Account indebted 100 l. and there was no bartering for Diet ; but that she had gratis for Three Quarters of a Year after Sir William's Death , as she had it several times before . And now , while it is in my Memory , I would remind you of one thing more , before we come to the other Witnesses , there is a thing that to me cramps this Business very home upon my Lady Ivy : How comes it to pass my Lady Ivy should be so wonderful kind to my Lady Salthill's Daughter , as to part with 1500 l. so secured , to have the House setled upon her , without any Consideration in the World that I can hear of ? That is such a melting piece of Kindness , that they would do well to find out some Flame to authorize it . It seems upon Sir Charles Cotterel's desire to see this pretended Mortgage , and its being brought him by my Brother West , who is now dead , she was wonderful careful that he should not see the Witnesses to it , it was so precious and tender a thing : But , alas , it is all melted down and gone of a sudden without any Consideration at all whatsoever , and she can readily join with Sir Charles Cotterell to settle this upon Mrs. Duffett , the Lady Salthill's Daughter , and enter into Bond not to disturb the Enjoyment . Then there comes another Evidence , and that is the Gentlewoman , Mrs. Duffett , who it seems they would have to be a loose sort of Creature , but methinks she has a good round Oath upon her Tongue ; for she does directly swear that she was present , and saw Mr. Duffett her Husband Forge that very Mortgage Sir Charles Cotterell speaks of , that my Lady Ivy directed it , and gave her order to put Saffron in the Ink to make it look old , that she saw him writing in a Parchment , which he told her was Glover's Lease , and other things , and all for my Lady Ivy. Nay , she tells you my Lady Ivy was so extraordinary an Artist at the managing of such an Affair , that this Master-Workman , Duffett , was not so dextrous at it as she ; for he could not write the first great Letters of the Names that were to be put to the Forged Deeds , but she did that her self , and the rest he did . How far she is to be believed , I must leave to you , you hear what is objected against her about the Frog in her Belly , and I do not know what , whither that will take off the Credibility of her Testimony I leave to you . She doth give a very free and large Account how they used to order their Matters to make the Ink look Old ( as I said ) they put Saffron in it ; Then they rub'd the Outsides of the Deeds in Dirty Windows , and after that used to lay them in a Balcony for the Rain to come upon them in the Nights , and to dry them in the Sun , or by the Fire , to shrivel them up . And this she says was their Method and Process they used . All which the Plaintiffs Counsel urge to shew the Probability that these Deeds of theirs are forged . Then they tell you , which is yet somewhat more to strengthen her Evidence , there is a Woman , that tho' she speaks out of Mr. Duffett's Mouth , and that can be no Evidence against my Lady Ivy , yet says , she received from him a Parcel of Letters , which are sworn by Sir Charles Cotterell to be all of my Lady Ivies own Hand-writing , which Letters have been read to you , and they shew a great familiarity between my Lady Ivy and Mr. Duffett , a great Care and Concern for the promotion of this Duffett , the Gentlewomans Husband , and of some Deeds that were likely to be thought New and Suspected : and she tells him at the latter end of one , that she is sollicitous till the trouble be over . But she was resolved to set on foot Sir William Salthill's Mortgage , and if that thing did go well he should have half . That supports the Credibility of the Womans Testimony , but besides that there is another thing that looks very untoward , because Mrs. Duffett doth directly swear that out of the 1000 l. paid my Lady Ivy by Sir Charles Cotterell , 200 l. was paid and given to her Husband , and Mr. Sutton forsooth had 200 l. more : For what service , I wonder , must my Lady Ivy be so liberal to Mr. Sutton and Mr. Duffet ? Let Mr. Sutton shuffle and rouze himself as he pleaseth , it will stick upon him , and I must confess it looks untowardly his getting my Lord of Salisbury's Lease , to pick Notes out of it , and then to have such a Mortgage trumped up in this manner . It is very rank , I assure you . This is the Substance of the Evidence that has been offered by the Plaintiff , to prove and induce you to believe these Deeds forged . Now in Answer to this , they on the other side would offer that Sir Charles Cotterell's Evidence is a surprize upon them ; they say they have such a Writing , and such and such Deeds , Glover's Lease and Salthill's Mortgage , but they are not prepared to give such an Answer as they would have done , had they had notice . Here has been likewise great struggling and striving to have the Verdict read to overthrow Mrs. Duffetts Testimony , but that cannot be allowed to be given in Evidence between these parties . Then they would have read her Husbands Oath , he being Dead : but that is no point of Evidence at all neither ; for in case the Man were alive , it would not be Evidence what he should have heard his own Wife say . If both of them indeed had been here together , and testified against my Lady Ivy , it had been good Evidence , or they both might have testified for her . But by the Law the Husband cannot be a Witness against his Wife , nor a Wife against her Husband , to charge them with any thing Criminal , except only in Cases of High Treason . This is so known a Common Rule , that I thought it could never have born any Question or Debate . This is the Substance of the Evidence on both sides , as near as I can recollect it ; save only that which indeed I should have mentioned before the Defendant have produced an Exemplification of a Verdict obtained the last Michaelmas Term. To which they for the Plaintiff Answer , We were not prepared to answer your Deeds , which were very new , surprizing and unexpected to us : We have now given new Evidence that we never gave then , and it was a Verdict obtained by surprize : We now shew our Boundaries better than we could then , and so that they make to be the result of the whole matter . Now upon the main , after this very long Evidence , tho' the Case has been darkened as much as ever any Case could endeavoured to be , and tho' the Event of it be a matter of considerable Value , yet the Matter of Fact is as clear as the Sun at Noon-day ; and a plain point of Fact it is , and must depend upon . If we do admit all their Deeds to be good Deeds , without any consideration of the Forgery , pro or con ; yet if the Mill-Ponds , Ditches , Orchards , Gardens , &c. can be taken to be seven Acres , then the Boundaries upon the Mill or Hilly-Bank , which may well be Foxes-lane , that will answer both the Deeds of the Plaintiff and of the Defendant . And tho' never so many Houses be built upon it , it will signifie nothing in the Case . And that it is so , whereas the Defendants Surveyor swears , that 130 Acres will not be made up without the Lands in Question ; the Plaintiff has brought two Surveyors , that swear there is full 130 Acres and more without them . So you have two Surveyers on the one side , and one on the other , and you your selves have viewed it . After this long Evidence , Gentlemen , you have had as good an account of the Substance of it , as I can by my Notes and Memory recollect . If any of the Gentlemen that are of the Counsel for the Plaintiff , or for the Defendant , do think I have omitted any thing that is material on either side , they have free liberty to remind the Court of it . you are the Judges of this Fact , whether this Land do of Right belong to the Plaintiff , or to the Defendant : And I leave it to your Consideration . After which the Jury withdrew to consider of their Verdict , and the Court arose . That Evening the Jury gave in a Private Verdict before a Judge , and appearing the next Morning at the Barr , were called over , and demanded if they did abide by the Verdict they had given the Night before , to which they answered , yes ; which being declared by the Secondary to be for the Plaintiff , the Jury were discharged . Then a Motion was made by the Plaintiffs Counsel , that several Deeds produced by the Defendant , that were detected of Forgery , might be lest in Court in order to have them pursued , and convicted of the Forgery . The Court upon debate of the Matter ; and the Plaintiffs Counsel declaring they would prosecute an Information of Forgery , the Deeds of the 13th of November , and the 22th of December , 2 and 3 Phil. and Mar. were ordered to be lest with the Clerk of the Crown till further Order , and in the mean time the Plaintiff to have Copies of them from the Clerk ; and by Rule of Court a Tryal at Barr is ordered in Michaelmas Term. FINIS . The land within and belowe the Red Line , is the Land that was in 1683 Claimed by the Lady Ivy and is the Seaven Acres of Land , in which the Mill Ponds and Ditches did all over dispersed by lie , and into which the Water did every Tyde flow , and then there was kept in by the Thames or Mill Wall on the South and East Corner of it and by Wall-Marsh Wall now foxes Lane , on the West , and went out againe at the Ebb , and so did drive a ( tide ) Mill , To which with its appurtences , which must have been this Land , the Deans of St. Pauls on Record can Shew Title in fee for more then 400 years , and their Tenants all along have enjoyed it , and yet the dispute by the Lady Ivy rais'd twixt the said Dean and her self , has been whether this very ground be parcel of 130 acres drowned Land ( now called Wapping Marsh ) that drained but about 150 years since , in Henry the Eights time or not 1687. Now in Perpetuam Rei Memoriam , ( and for that Cause this is printed ) Note , THE Survey of the Mannour of Stepney , and on Record in that Court , by the Lady Ivy first ( she knowing that it would by the Dean be ) produced , taken in and about the 25th Eliz. with Reference to other Surveys , above 100 years older , sets out and describes by it self , the whole 130 Acres of Marsh , and Butts the same on the Lands of the Dean of St. Paul's , London , held of the Mannour of Stepney , towards the East , and that is on this very Land. The Act for Draining the whole 130 Acres in Henry the Eighth's time , Butts the same East on the Town of Ratcliff , which is also on this very Land ( every part of it ) Eastward of Foxes Lane , having always been reckon'd in Ratcliff , and ever so named in all Leases and Deeds , till Shadwell was by 〈◊〉 of Parliament made a Parish , distinct from the Hamlet of Ratcliff , in or about 1670. And it is to be Noted , That this Land Eastward of Foxes Lane , was also among other Surveyed , and Sold as 〈◊〉 and Chapters Land in the late Times of Rebellion , in or about 1652. and was , and is all of it , ( but just ●here the Ditches and Ponds were ) 8 or 10 foot higher than the Lands Westward of Foxes Lane , which are al●●●ed to be part of Stepkins's Lands in the Marsh. And besides this 130 Acres of Marsh , so set out as in the Survey aforesaid , the said Stepney Survey sets also out for the Dean . Shadwel-Field by estimation 20 Acres , and Bounded as it really is , and 5 Acres of Linches , Bounded just as it 〈◊〉 . And also ( this Land as it follows described ) a Tenement called Derekin , and one Tenement late Pinserus de 〈◊〉 , together with a Water-Mill , divers Tenements , Cottages , Mansion-Houses , Orchards , Gardens , Ponds , 〈◊〉 , and Pitles , all lying together , Butting South on the Thames , and on Wall , ( alias Wapping ) Marsh , in part ( Marked A in the Map ) and on the Linches in part ( Marked B ) and on Ratcliff High-way in part on the North , 〈◊〉 on Wall ( or Wapping ) Marsh on the West , and upon the Lords Waste towards the East , held of the Mannour of Stepney freely , ever since Richard the Second's time , at 33 s. 3 d. ½ per annum quit Rent , and the same is still yearly paid for it . And yet the Claim made by Lady Ivy as aforesaid , would take almost all this whole parcel away , and by that 〈◊〉 the Ground wherein these last mentioned Tenements , Orchards , Gardens , Ponds , &c. belonging to the Dean , 〈◊〉 most certainly lye , and are so exactly described in the aforesaid Survey ; and without which there could be to place there , to hold and keep Water to drive the said Mill : And for the mending that matter , the Lady Ivy's Counsel at the last Trial alledged , it had once been an Overshot-Mill , and so did not want these Ditches and Ponds , to hold and keep Water to drive it withal ; and the better to make that out , some Deeds were then given 〈◊〉 Evidence , with Stile and Titles before them , which were not in use at the time of the date of those Deeds , and so they were not believed , when produced , nor indeed is it sense in any sort to imagine that an Overshot-Mill , ( there being no Water would drive one ) could in Nature have ever been there . And yet Lady Ivy again would pretend to this Land Eastward of Foxes Lane , as parcel of Wapping Marsh , notwithstanding all this , and a Verdict against her at a Trial in 1684. before the Right Honourable George Lord Jeffreyes , Baron of Wemme , the present Lord Chancellour , then Lord Chief Justice of England , and what was 〈◊〉 said then ( and may well be so again ) against her new found Deeds , ( the finder of which , as perjured , has already been Pillory'd for it ) and notwithstanding that her Grandfather Iohn Stepkins Esq 16 Aug. 1615. did ●●mise to one Cayford the three parcels of Marsh , lying next to , and Westward of Foxes Lane ( which is held by 〈◊〉 Lease till this day ) and therein says , that it lies at the East end of Wapping Marsh , next towards Ratcliff , ●●●tting Eastward on the old Wall , which divided the same from the Mill-Ditch ( which lay just East of Foxes L●●e ) . And the Michaelmas-Term following , the said Iohn Stepkins suffered a Non-suit in the King's-Bench , after 〈◊〉 Ejectment by him brought against the Dean's Lessee , for part ( only ) of Wall-Marsh-Wall , which he said was encroched on the Marsh. And In 1617. the said Stepkins Claiming again the same thing , a Verdict on a full Hearing , and after a View , was in the Common Pleas given against him , and allowing the whole Wall to belong to the Dean of St. Paul's . And notwithstanding that her Father , Iohn Stepkins Esq ( in his Answer to a Bill preferr'd against him by the ●●●ches Lessee about 1629. then in quiet possession of Wall-Marsh-Wall , but Claiming some Houses Westward 〈◊〉 Foxes Lane , and therein setting out also the Deans Title in Fee to the Mill , with its Appurtenances in Ratcliff , 〈◊〉 to settle the Boundaries ) on his Oath , had admitted that the Dean of St. Paul's was seized in Fee of the said Water-Mill , with its Appurtenances ( which was this very Land ) and that Wall-Marsh-Wall did anciently lye between the Mill-Ditch and his Land in Wapping , and that the Lands of the Dean and Chapter are divided from 〈◊〉 Land ( and have been so time out of mind ) by a common Way or Passage , and that was Foxes Lane , which 〈◊〉 that the Marsh ( and so Stepkins's Land ) ended there , and that it was the Dean's Land that lay Eastward of Foxes Lane , &c. And also Note , The aforesaid Answer was perused and Signed by Sir Iohn Brampston deceased , Unkle and Trustee to the 〈◊〉 Stepkins , and Executor to his Father , and who had the Custody of the Writings which concerned that E●●●te , and is the pretended Witness to ( the so much talkt off ) Glovers Lease , being the Chief Deed that gives ●olour to the Lady Ivy's Title , to the Batemans and Whichcot's Land , by her gotten in Wapping , and yet never was ●●ard of , till ( wanted in ) 1675. and then luckily found , where Lost , by Lady Ivy herself . FINIS . The Lady Ivy HAving thought fit some short time before Easter-Term , 1687. to cause to be printed and published a Paper , intituled , An Abstract of the Title to the Lands in Wapping - Marsh , and other Places near adjoyning , belonging to the Mannor of Stepney or Stebonheath , called Ewell , alias Tile-house ; thereby making Title in general to more Ground ( great part of it built ) than the City of London stands upon ; but particularly to none of the Lands in question . She affirms , That the 14th of Iune 1573. 15 Eliz. Iohn Stepkins , one of her Ancestors , being indebted to the Queen as Surety for William Patent , in the 19th of Eliz. Stepkins's Lands were Extended , and that therein are exprest most of the Lands mentioned in the Extent of 4. Eliz. taken out against Richard Hill's Lands , upon a Statute entred into by him 32 Hen. 8. being 113 Acres , and particularly all the Lands now in Dispute ; which is confidently affirm'd , but very untrue : for in the Deed from Stepkins , to convey all his Lands to the Queens Trustees , and in the Extent 19 Eliz. and the Lease from the Queen to Alice Stepkins , and the Release from King Iames , 7 Iac. to Iohn Stepkins , all the particulars of Stepkins's Lands are Enumerated , and the Tenants names , whereof there was but a few Acres lying in the Marsh mention'd as convey'd to Trustees for the Queen , and fifty Acres only Extended ( being all they had ) in Wapping-Marsh at that time , but not the least part of the Lands in dispute named , they being all that time ( and long before and ever since ) in other mens possession , under whom Sir Anthony Bateman , and the Trustees for Rebecca Whichcot , purchased . And lest the World should by the said Paper be made to believe that the Lands in question were ( as part of the Land then belonging to Stepkins ) assigned to the use of the Crown , and there remained till 1609 , and so must have been Stepkins's Land at that time . The Creditors of Sir Anthony Bateman have thought fit to print so much of their Title as remains on Record , to Ten Acres of Freehold , and Twelve Acres of Copyhold Land , as have also the Heirs of Rebecca Whichcot , to above Three , and not exceeding Four Acres , all lying in Wapping-Marsh , and desire the Readers to take notice of the Boundaries in the old Deeds by which this Land is described , exactly answered by the Lands in dispute : And that several of the Sales made ( on Record ) of the Freehold , and Surrenders ( also on Record ) of the Copyhold , were made during the time that the Estate of the Stepkinses did remain in the Crown , and so cannot be reasonably thought to have been any part of that Land. The Creditors Title to Ten Acres of Freehold Land. JOhn Nelthorpe , and Elizabeth his Wife , Daughter and sole Heir of Iohn Starkey , conveys by Deed enrolled to Richard Sleford and his Heirs , all those Ten Acres of Marsh-ground , with its Appurtenances , in Wapping-Marsh in the County of Middlesex , between the Lands late of Iasper Hill , and Gravel-Lane , on every part . These Lands lye butting on one side on Gravel-Lane , and on the Copyhold late Hill's on the other , Iasper Hill being the man that last surrendred the same , even to one of the Stepkinses , but the 4th of Eliz. before , as appears by Copy of Court-Roll on Record , 5 Eliz. 1563. A Fine by Nelthorpe and his Wife , pursuant to the Deed. Richard Sleford sells the same Ten Acres to Henry Tailford , but butts it ( as it did at that time ) West on Gravel-Lane , Eastward on Glascock's , and North on Stukeley's Land. The Land late Hill's , was 23 Eliz. surrendred to Glascock , as appears by the Copy ; and that the North Buttal was on Stukeley's Land , appears by the Sale Stukeley made of Land lying North of it , 4 Iacobi enrolled . There are two Gravel-Lanes , one called Old Gravel-Lane , the other New Gravel-Lane ( between which all the Land now in question does lye ) but that Old Gravel-Lane , on which these Lands Abutt West , was the Gravel-Lane meant by these Deeds , is plain ; for that New Gravel-Lane was a Rope-Walk long since the memory of many alive , and sold by Lady Ivy her self , with the Land on each side of it , to Brian Harrison , Trustee for William Wood , by Deed enrolled , Dated the first of Iuly 1658. by the Name of Three Acres , heretofore used for a Rope-ground , and now converted into a Street called New Gravel-Lane . Henry Tailford had a Daughter who was his Heir , and married Iohn Crosse , who so became seized thereof . A Recovery per Crosse and his Wife . Crosse and his Wife levied a Fine to Bennet . Richard Bennet and Lettice his Wife , levy a Fine to Richard Glover . Richard Glover settles by his Will , these Lands , among others , on his Son Richard ; who dying about 1646. left a Son whose Name was also Richard. Richard Glover the Grandson's Conveyance enrolled , to Sir Anthony Bateman and others of the Premisses , among other things , in Trust to pay Debts ; and a Lease of five Acres , part of the Lands in question from Richard Glover , to Aaron Williams for fifty years , from 1630 at 20 l. yearly , recited in the Schedule to it , which Lease Lady Ivy purchased in 1659. for about 2000 l. and so got the possession of it . See her Answer to Sir Robert Cotton's Bill put in , in 1676. Smith , Harrington , Anthony Bateman , and Richard Glover the Grandson , levy a Fine to Tirrill and Harris , Trustees for Bateman . A Deed enrolled , reciting a Deed from the Parties to the aforesaid Fine , to Tirrill and Harris , the 20th of Iune last ; whereby Tirrill and Harris convey the said Lands to Anthony Bateman and his Heirs , who held the possession thereof , and received the Rents till he failed about 1666. and under whom Sir Robert Cotton , as Trustee for the Creditors , claims , and in Easter-Term 1686. after a full Hearing in the King's-Bench , had a Verdict for this , and the Twelve Acres Copyhold Land. Title to the Copyhold Land. EDward Ascugh and his Wife , surrender Twelve Acres in Wall and Wapping-Marsh , to Richard Hill. Copy whereby Iohn Stepkins surrenders the Twelve Acres to Iohn Harding , and recites they had been Alwine's and Gibson's , and that he had them by Grant of the Lord of the Mannor , and Release of Iasper Hill. There is not known to be any but this Twelve Acres Copyhold , in the whole Marsh. Iohn Harding surrenders to Iohn Osborne . Iohn Osborne surrenders to Richard Wotton and Robert Harrell . Iohn Osborne having forfeited for having Lett without License , the Lord of the Mannor admitted Walthal and Finch . Walthal and Finch surrender to Io. Glascock . Glascock surrenders to Tho. Cook and his Wife . Cook and his Wife surrender to Richard Glover , Citizen and Pewterer of London . Richard Glover dying , the Copyhold being Gavelkind , fell to his several Sons , who all after surrendred to Richard the Eldest ; who dying in 1646. his Son ( after admittance ) in 1647. surrendred to Robert Smith and Anthony Bateman , who was ( till he broke ) in possession , and received the Rents . Sir Robert Smith dyed 12 Iune , 21 Car. 2. so Sir Anthony was the Survivour . Sir Anthony became a Bankrupt . See the Commission . The Commissioners Assignment of the Ten Acres Freehold , and Twelve Acres Copy hold to Sir Robert Cotton , enrolled . Sir Robert Cotton admitted to the Twelve Acres Copyhold . A Verdict for Sir Robert Cotton . The Heirs of Whichcot's Title to Pruson's Island . PEter Osborne conveys the Breach , &c. to Woodshaw , by Estimation Three ( not exceeding Four ) Acres , butting East on a Sluce , South on the Thames , North on Wapping-Marsh , West on a piece of Ground next abutting and adjoyning on a certain Way or Lane there , called Gravel-Lane . Enroll'd . Iames Woodshaw conveys the same to Richard Glover . Livery and Seisin Endorsed . Richard Glover Devises , by general Words , Wapping-Land to Richard Glover his Son. Book of Wills. The said Richard Glover conveys the same to Warren and his Heirs . Enroll'd . The said Richard confirms the same to Warren . Enroll'd . Richard Glover , the Grandson , confirms the same . George Warren sells the same to Richard Lloyd and Iohn Wicken . Enroll'd . Richard Lloyd and Iohn Wicken , by Lease and Release , sell to William Crowder , Thomas Iordan , Thomas Horton , and Iohn Iolliff , Trustees for Rebecca Whichcot , late Glover's Wife . Crowder , Iorden , and Horton , Dye before 1680. Iohn Iolliff in 1680. being the surviving Trustee , and in William Iolliff his Son and Heir , the Inheritance of these Lands remains , in Trust for the Heirs of the said Rebecca Whichcot , to this Day : And , Note , The Land now called Pruson's Island , ( which Name is assuredly took from having been long in possession of one Pruson , under Glover's Title ) is above Three , and not Four Acres ; butted East on ( a place where there was ) a Sluce , South on the Thames , North on Wapping-Marsh , and West on Bridewel-Hospital-Land , heretofore a piece of Ground which butted and adjoyned upon Gravel-Lane ; and was held under Glover's Title by Mrs. Rebecca Whichcot , till outed by Lady Ivy , 1679. And if Lady Ivy can shew what Land 't is possible the Ten Acres in Wapping-Marsh should be , but the Lands in question , butting West on Gravel-Lane , and where the Twelve Acres of Copyhold in Wapping-Marsh should be , ( that was late Hill's in the 10th , and Glascock's the 23d of Eliz. ) and lying East of the last Ten Acres , but the Lands in question , and which have been always enjoyed by those the Creditors claim under , by Copy of Court-Roll , since Edward the Sixth's time , and where there should be Three , and not exceeding Four Acres , that butted East on a Sluce , South on the Thames , North on Wapping-Marsh , and West on a piece of Ground that butted on Gravel-Lane , unless the Ground now called Pruson's Island , which really does so abutt , they will then quit their Claim to these Lands , which they otherwise hope will at some time or other be allowed to be theirs . As to what Lady Ivy is pleased to say concerning the several Verdicts she has had for her Title , the Reader is hereby informed , That those Verdicts were got on producing of Deeds , which are not mentioned in her printed Paper , nor yet to be found on Record . And as to what she is pleased to suggest concerning the Conviction of her Adversaries Attorney , one Iohnson , Note , There was one Duffet , a notorious common Forger of Deeds , and an intimate Acquaintance of my Lady's : He first applied himself to Mr. Iohnson as a Witness , without Iohnson's seeking to him , and discovering his Treaty with Iohnson , drew him into a snare , being , as supposed , employed by somebody else . As for the Records and Deeds , which made up three parts of her Paper , they are most of them such as were never made use of at any Trial , and serve only for a shew , and an amusement , and when rightly considered , are nothing to the purpose at all . And that the World may also see what Title , both on Record and otherwise , the Lady Ivy has yet been pleased to produce for the Lands in question , with what may reasonably be objected against it by Arguments , only deduced from other Deeds on Records , the same is incerted here , and if any Mistake be made in 't , it is not wilfully done , and will be undoubtedly Answered by Lady Ivy's Direction , if there be any thing in it untrue , her Ladyship having already appeared twice in Print in these Matters , and thereby given occasion for the Printing of this . The Lady Ivy's Title . THat Wapping-Marsh being one Hundred and Thirty Acres drowned Land , was , for a Moiety thereof , undertaken before the 27 Hen. 8 , to be Inned and Drained by one Vanderdelfe , who sold his Moiety to one Richard Hill , on whom that Moiety was by Act of Parliament , 27 Hen. 8. setled . A Lease produced by which Richard Hill lets Sixteen Acres to one Clayton , a Butcher , for five years , lying along Gravel-Lane . A Deed whereby Richard Hill sells to Thomas Stepkins and his Heirs , for ever , Sixteen Acres in Wapping-Marsh , in the Tenure of one Clayton , and Fifteen Acres and Three Roods of Land in Wapping-Marsh , then in the possession of Richard Hill , lying by the Pond in the said Marsh , and all those his Messuages , Pond , Lands , and Soil , in the Parishes of Stepney and St. Mary Matfellon , or elsewhere in the County of Middlesex ; and were parcel of Hundred and thirty Acres , formerly drowned , but not of the Fifty three Acres that were Stepkins's before the drowning . Note , The word is Drowning , and not Draining , in the Deed. See Lady Ivy's Answer to Dr. Whichcot's Bill , 1677. A Deed whereby Jasper Hill , Son of Richard Hill , sells all his Lands about Ninty two Acres , in the Marsh , and County of Middlesex , to Machelin and John Stepkins , and their Heirs ; and is the Deed whereby Lady Ivy , in Easter-Term 1686. Claimed these Lands , without producing the foregoing Deed of the 23 d Mar. 5 Edw. 6. but in Easter and Trinity Term 1687. Lady Ivy to make Title to these Lands , produced that of the 5 th Edw. 6 th , without bringing out this at all . And that Jasper Hill by Fine and Recovery 3 Eliz. and by Deed 12 th May 4 Eliz. conveyed Twenty Acres of Land , and a Hundred Acres of Marsh in White-Chappel , Stepney , and Wapping , to Macheline and John Stepkins and their Heirs . Richard Hill , having the 3 Dec. 32 Henry the 8 th , entred into a Statute to one Vivald , and Salvago , all the Lands which he was possest of after that time , being One hundred and thirteen Acres were extended , and among them the Lands in question , and that that Extent was purchased in by Stepkins . A Presentment of Sewer's finding Twelve Acres in possession of Walthall and Woodcock , as the Freehold of Stepkins , and part of the Lands in question . John Stepkins , as Surety for William Patent , Covenanted to pay to the Queen 7928 l. 7 s. 11 d. ½ . and to secure it , levied a Fine , and conveyed an Estate to Trustees for the Queen : in which Conveyance , inter alia , is mentioned Four Acres of Meadow , with a Pond and Island , in the possession of Alice Woodcock ; which Lady Ivy's Counsel do say , is the Ground now called Pruson's Island . And the said John Stepkins at that time did give Bond to perform Covenants , which Bond being forfeited , in the 19 Eliz. the rest of his Estate was extended , and not released till 7 Jacobi , 1609. and then restored to the Stepkinses again . And Lady Ivy in her printed Paper affirms , that most of the Lands in the Extent 4 Eliz. are mentioned in this , and particularly all the Lands in dispute ; and thence would infer , that these were Stepkins's Lands at that time , and , if so , ought to be hers now . The Answer to it . THE Act of Parliament was undoubtedly so ● and only shews there was a Hundred and thirty Acres to be Drained , and that Richard Hill having purchased Vanderdelfe's interest , was to have one Moiety of it . This Lease ( if really true ) only shews that Richard Hill had Land there ; which it may be he had and probably he or his Son Iasper might after sell it to Iohn Starkey ( under whom it is claimed now ) before they sold any to Stepkins at all . This ( if true ) purports a most absolute sale of all the Lands Richard Hill had in the County of Middlesex ; and yet the said Richard Hill , the 20● Oct. 6 Edw. 6. by his last Will and Testament , settles the Lands he bought of Vanderdelfe ( of which , by the Deed , this appears to be part ) on his Son Iasper Hill , with several Remainders over in Tail , which 't is not likely he would have done , had he sold it away before ; and as a very good Argument that it was so Entailed by Richard Hill's Will , there appears on Record , a Fine and Recovery suffered by Iasper Hill ( Richard Hill's Son ) to Machelin and Iohn Stepkins , of Twenty Acres of Land , and a Hundred Acres of fresh Marsh in White-Chappel , Stepney , and Wapping , the 3d of Eliz. which had been needless had it not been so Entailed , and is an Argument that Stepkins bought nothing of Hill till that time : And yet in Trinity-Term 1684. in a Cause 'twixt the Dean of Saint Paul's , London , and Lady Ivy , about Shadwell Lands , a Deed was then given in Evidence , Dated 16 Apr. 6 Edw. 6. whereby Richard Hill sold Twenty four Acres , and all the Lands he had in Stepney and Middlesex , to Thomas Stepkins : But this Deed having had the misfortune to be markt as found , and Sworn to be so , with a long Lease of a Hundred twenty eight years , and other Deeds , among the Writings of the Churches Lessee , it was not believed then , and one of the Witnesses that swore to the so finding those Deeds , was Perjur'd upon 't , and stood in the Pillory for it ; and some of the said Deeds were then left in Court ; by Rule of which , Dated Iune 1687. upon an Information against Lady Ivy for it , a Trial is ordered next Term. Note , Lady Ivy's Wapping-Estate , came intirely into her power to sell and dispose of it in 1655. and when her Ladiship , in 1656. sold Land in Wapping to Mr. Arlibear , and in 1658. to Brian Harrison , Trustee for Mr. Wood , Copies of this Deed were given them ; by which it appears ( if they were rightly taken ) that Livery and Seisin was Endorsed on the back of that Deed the 20th of Nov. in the 5th and 6th year of Philip and Mary , and 't is notoriously known that Queen Mary died the Seventeenth of that Month , and that Queen Elizabeth was proclaimed the same day . This is not denied to be true , and is a great Argument against the Truth of the foregoing Deeds , it being not credible that this Fine was levied in pursuance of either of those Deeds , it being done so long after , and there being also a Deed by Lady Ivy's own shewing , dated the 12th of May following , 4 Eliz. to convey the Lands in that Fine comprized ; but that Deed not naming the Lands in question , was neither produced in Easter-Term 1686. nor in Easter nor Trinity-Term 1687. but was in a Trial in Trinity-Term 1684. but 't was in another cause , and the contents of it took at that time . This Extent was undoubtedly made , but affects not at all the Creditors nor Iolliff's Title , for the Ten Acres of Freehold Land that was Nelthorp's in right of his Wife , sole Heir of Iohn Starkey , in the 10 Eliz. and Pruson's Island might have been ( we do not say 't was ) Richard Hill's since the 32 Hen. 8. and yet no part of what was sold to Stepkins the 3 Eliz. and for the Twelve Acres of Copyhold , 't is plain it was Richard Hill's , and by his Son Iasper sold to Iohn Stepkins , under whom the Creditors , by uninterrupted Surrenders , all along down on Record , do make out their Title to it . It seems to be very much , and in many places razed , and not legible ; and is not produced by the hands of the proper Officer . That Iohn Stepkins , as Surety for Patent , being in Debt to the Queen , made over his Estate to Trustees for her use , and that 't was after Extended , and not released till 7 Iac. is true . But , Note , in the Conveyance to the Trustees for the use of the Queen , there is but a very few Acres mentioned as lying in Wapping-Marsh ; and in the Extent and Lease to Alice Stepkins , by the Queen , 19 Eliz. Fifty Acres in Wapping-Marsh only are mentioned , which seems to make out that Stepkins had no more there at that time ; and among those , none of the Lands now in question are any way named or described : For , as for the Four Acres of Meadow , with a Pond and Island , in the possession , at that time , of Alice Woodcock , it may , with much more of reason , be taken to be the Four Acres of Land , with the place where there was then both a Pond and Island , lying East of Pruson's Island ; whereof Three Acres was sold to Brian Harrison , Trustee for William Wood , 1658. and the rest to Mr. Arlibear in 1656. both by Deeds enrolled by Lady Ivy her self . Besides , had these Lands now in question , been then so convey'd to the use of the Queen , and extended , and so remained till 1609. 't is not to be imagined that they could during that time have been sold , as plain 't is they were on Record , by Sleford to Tailford , the 24 Eliz. and by Cross to Bennet , the 43 Eliz. of whom Richard Glover bought ; and several Surrenders were made of the Copyhold Land in that time , and particularly that to Richard Glover ( under whom the Creditors claim ) in 1603. As were also the Sales by Peter Osborne to Woodshaw , 25 Eliz. 1583. and by Iames Woodshaw to Richard Glover , 3 Iac. 1604. under which Pruson's Island was quietly enjoyed till 1679. and under which the Heirs of Rebecca now Claim . To Answer the Possession , Lady Ivy says , That 14 Eliz. 1572. John Stepkins Demised Twelve Acres and other Lands , of which these were part , with an Island and Pond , to Anthony Walthall and John Woodcock , for 62 years : And that 44 Eliz. 1602. Walthall and Woodcock mortgaged the same to Richard Glover . That Anthony Walthall and Thomas Woodcock , Son of John , surrendred and released to John Stepkins . That Richard Glover being in possession , under the Lease to Walthall and Woodcock , and one Pruson claiming some Interest under Glover , they both released to John Stepkins . John Stepkins demises the Premisses in question , inter alia , to Richard Glover for Fifty six years , at a red Rose for the first Ten years , and after that , at 20 l. yearly payable to Mr. Stepkins , his Executors , and Assigns ; and the Rent being so reserved , and not to his Heirs , the Counsel for Lady Ivy , says , It was not payable to his Heirs , and so ceased , but that 120 l. was paid for the first six years , to Lady Ivy's Father , as did appear by Whitfield her Fathers Steward's Book of Accounts , which had been produced at a former Trial , and allowed as Evidence , but was since burnt in the Fire at Wapping . Sir John Brampston swore he believed 't was his Fathers Hand that was set as a Witness to it ; and Serjeant Brampston in his Deposition taken 1675. to perpetuate his Testimony , swears so too ; and that about six or seven years before his Examination in 1675. looking among Lady Ivy's Writings , left with him by his brother Sir John , who was Executor to his Father , he did find a Deed with the Name Richard Glover set thereto as a Party , but did not then read the same , but believes the Deed on which he was examined ( being the said Fifty six years Lease ) was the same Deed he so found , and on the Suit with Bateman , did deliver many Writings and Evidences to Lady Ivy , and advised her to read them over , and that among them she told him she found this Fifty six years Lease ; and in her Answer to Sir Robert Cotton's Bill , put in against her , 1675. she also swears she so found the said Lease in May 1675. and does acknowledge in that her said Answer , that she did not know of the said Lease , nor of the Rent thereon received . And yet as A farther proof of this Lease ( it having been sometime sworn that one Duffett said , he was making a Writing he called Glover's Lease about 1671. ) Lady Ivy , to shew 't was known in 1664. and if so , could not be made in or about 1671. does produce . A Deed wherein the said Lease is recited , being a Conveyance ( executed by Sir Thomas Ivy and his Lady , of the Inheritance of five Acres of Land on which Kingstreet in Wapping is built , to Edward Burtbee and Edward Temple , in Trust to secure 800 l. to Sir Thomas Ivy , by 100 l. yearly , till Principal and Interest paid , with a Covenant to levy a Fine . And to prove this Deed , she produced Edward Burtbee himself , who swears very home to the matter , and says , he was Party to it , but the Witnesses are all dead . A Fine was levied to Burtbee and Temple , of Five Acres of Land in Stepney and Middlesex . And that under the Lease to Walthall and Woodcock for Sixty two years , and this Lease thus taken of John Stepkins by Richard Glover for Fifty six years . All the Possession of such as have claimed all along under him , has been . Several Verdicts , and in favour of the foregoing Title , are by Lady Ivy produced ; and as a very great Argument of the truth of her Deeds , is alledged the very great difficulty of making so many , as there must have been made , if any there be in her Case . If there was such a Lease as per contra made by Iohn Stepkins to Walthall and Woodcock for sixty two years , from 1572. and that the same was made over to Richard Glover in 1602. 'T is very strange , that the said Richard Glover , if he had no other Title but that Lease at that time , should presume to let Leases of Lands therein comprized , as he really did to Pruson and Watts , for Terms that would not expire till long after that Lease , ( an Enjoyment went with them ) and much stranger it is that they should accept of such Leases , and consider his Title no better , it being Building-ground on which they laid out their Estates . Besides , if Walthall and Woodcock mortgaged the same to Richard Glover in 1602. and that he was in possession of it under that Lease in 1619. as the Surrender made by Pruson and him of it , shews he was till that time , how came Anthony Walthall and Thomas Woodcock to have it to surrender or release to Iohn Stepkins , 1 Nov. 1613. which Serjeant Francis Brampston swears was the date of that Release ? And if Walthall and Woodcock had it to surrender , and did surrender it in 1613. to Iohn Stepkins , how came Glover and Pruson to have it again to surrender in 1619 ? This is very strange , if true . Note , The Release dated in 1613. was produced when the following Fifty six years Lease first was in 1675. and the other Release not till some years after , when discovered , it was that Richard Glover was possest of that Land all the time between 1613. and 1620. so that the first Release was not late enough to justifie the making of the next Lease for fifty six years . Against the probability of the truth of this Lease , Note , Likeness of Hands , and payment of Rent , no better proved than per contra , without any thing else , is but a slender Testimony to support a suspected Deed , which this may deserve to be ; for the following Reasons . 'T is not pretended 't was known to Lady Ivy , till found by her , when wanted in 1675. and if it had been known , What is said as an excuse why the Rent was not paid , ( being reserved to the Lessor , his Executors , and not Heirs ) is of no weight ; for it might have been helpt in Chancery . Besides , had that been the reason why the Rent was not asked nor paid : Note , Richard Glover ( who Lady Ivy goes about to prove paid the first six years Rent ) would never have paid any to her Father Iohn Stepkins , he being the Son of that Iohn Stepkins , who is supposed to have let this Lease in 1620. and died in 1624. so that way no Rent had been due at all . Richard Glover in 1616. died , and by his Will gave several of his Children 500 l. apiece , and particularly Mary ; and if the Money was not paid accordingly by Richard Glover his Son , who is supposed to have taken this Lease , he devises his Wapping Lands over to his said Children , and Mary's Portion being not paid , George Almony , her Husband , enters ; and on payment of the said 500 l. in 1624. resettles ( by Fine and Deed particularly naming these Lands ) the same on Richard Glover again ; whose thus accepting a Fine , had been a forfeiting the Lease , had he held it by one at that time . Lady Ivy's Father's and Grandfather's Wills , enumerating all their Lands to very small parcels , take no notice at all of this Lease , nor of any Land in it comprized , but only as a Boundary to their own . Note , There was a Lease lett by Richard Glover to Aaron Williams of the Five Acres , being part of the Twelve Acres of Copyhold Land , on which Kingstreet in Wapping is built , for Fifty years ( with License from the Lord of the Mannor to lett for so long ) from 1630. at 20 l. yearly Rent ; 't was a building Lease , and such part of it as Aaron Williams built not himself , he disposed of to others . And as 't is something hard to imagine that Richard Glover ( who was a man of repute ) if he had but forty six years in it in 1630. should lett it for Fifty years , so 't is very much harder to believe that Aaron Williams , ( who was a great Builder in several places ) and those under him , should accept of a Lease ( and build on it ) for a longer term than Richard Glover could have lett , had he held it by this now produced Lease for Fifty six years from 1620. which if true , could not have been but publickly known at that time ; which very Lease so lett to Aaron Williams , as aforesaid , Lady Ivy purchased in 1659. and gave about 2000 l. for it , and so got the possession of it , as she in her own Answer to Sir Robert Cotton's Bill in 1676. does confess , and is a great Argument she believed it a good Lease ; and that 20 l. yearly Rent was paid to Bateman for it , is plain , if the Answer of one Michael Oldsworth ( of whom Lady Ivy purchased the said Lease ) to a Bill put in against him by the Relations of one William Thomas ( to whom Oldsworth was Executor , and so came possest of this Lease ) for an Account of the Estate of the said William Thomas , may be believed , as it must in other cases , ( though no Evidence in this , because it being in another Cause , may not in this be read ) That in the Account says thus ; Paid Sir Anthony Bateman Arrears of Rent at Wapping , 20 l. per ann . 150 l. And the said Lady Ivy being so in possession of the Five Acres , on which Kingstreet is built , by having got Aaron Williams his Lease into her own hands , brought an Ejectment about 1675. against the Creditors of Sir Anthony Bateman , who then were possest of the other Seventeen Acres , and they claiming under a Bankrupt , who refused to assist them , and knowing not how to defend their Title , and Lady Ivy having the good Fortune to make those Deeds against which so much is said in this Paper , and especially the Fifty six years Lease from 1620. to be believed as true Deeds , she got a Verdict and Judgment then for the said Seventeen Acres about 1676. and held the same till a Verdict was given against her in Easter-Term 1686. for the whole Twenty two Acres , upon the now Creditors Title , such Evidence being then given , as made this Fifty six years Lease , and other Deeds , not believed . The Deed dated February 1664. setling the Inheritance of the Five Acres of Land , on which Kingstreet in Wapping is built , on one Edward Burtbee and Edward Temple , for the securing 800 l. by 100 l. yearly to Sir Thomas Ivy , in which the 56 years Lease is recited , seems to have been made for the sake of that very Recital , and cannot in reason be true ; for , Note , Lady Ivy having purchased Aaron Williams his Lease , as aforesaid , and that being in December 1664. mortgaged to Ioseph Sabberton and Edward Simonds for 800 l. and Sir Thomas Ivy then offering to lay down that Money , so he might have it secured him out of the said Lease , the same Lease was made over 26 Decemb. 1664. to Richard and Iohn Estcourt , and Thomas Nevil , who the 25th of February following , assigned the same to Sir Rob. Killigrew , Sir William Salkeild , and Benjamin Thornburgh , now Trustees for that purpose : But Sir Thomas not receiving the Rents , and his 800 l. remaining unpaid , and he differing with his Lady in 1671. put in a Bill against her and Serjeant Brampston , about this very business , charging the Serjeant with Confederacy with his Wife ; and setting out the whole matter of the Security made him of that Lease , complaining of the ill usage he had had , and desires relief , and yet says not one word of the Inheritance now pretended to be made over to Burtbee and Temple for him , and to which Deed he himself , 't is pretended , was Party . And Lady Ivy in her Answer to the said Bill , takes only notice of the Lease by her purchased , and so mortgaged to Sabberton and Simonds , as aforesaid , and not one word of this Inheritance-Deed : Nor does a Bill exhibited against Sir Thomas Ivy in Feb. 1669. by Sir Robert Killigrew , Sir William Salkield , and Benjamin Thornburgh , the Trustees by Lady Ivy's direction , setting out also this Security thus made of the Lease ( therein named to be made by Richard Glover to Aaron Williams for Fifty years from 1630. ) for 800 l. by 100 l. yearly to Sir Thomas Ivy , nor Sir Thomas Ivy's Answer to it , ( confessing the Security was so made to him of the Lease ) say any thing at all of this Inheritance-Deed , nor take any notice of Edward Burtbee , but as one only who being authorized by the last named Trustees , and Lady Ivy , to receive the Rents , did employ one Edward Temple , for some time , for that purpose , and that afterwards one Perrot was by Lady Ivy authorized and employed to receive those Rents . So that 't is sence to believe that Edward Burtbee and Edward Temple were no otherwise ( with the knowledge of Sir Thomas Ivy ) concern'd in this matter , but as Rent-gatherers only in manner aforesaid : and nonsence it is to imagine there could be such an Inheritance Deed made and assigned in Trust for Sir Thomas to Burtbee and Temple at that time , and no notice in that Controversie be taken of it at all , considering also that that Lease was at that time within Nine years of expiring , and also not worth any thing , had the Fifty six years Lease been true . And farther , to demonstrate that it cannot be with reason believed that the Fifty six years Lease from 1620. could be recited in a Deed made in 1664. that was perused by Serjeant Brampston , and he a Witness , and Lady Ivy a Party to it : Note , Serjeant Brampston , when examined for Lady Ivy in this Cause in 1675. to perpetuate his Testimony , being in the fourth Interrogatory asked , When and how long it was since he FIRST law the Counterpart of the Lease ( explained to be this Fifty six years Lease in the second Interrogatory ) and where and among whose Evidences , Papers , and Writings , he did FIRST see the same ; in answer deposeth , That having several Boxes and Bags of Writings to him delivered by his Brother Sir Iohn , that were in the possession of Sir Iohn Brampston his Father , at the time of his death , to be by him kept , he was desired by one Sir Charles Stepkins , about six or seven years since , to search among the said Writings for the Counterpart of a Lease made to one Bourne ; and that upon this Deponents THEN searching , he did find a Deed with the name Richard Glover , as a Party set to it ; but saith , he did not THEN read the same , and that these Bags and Boxes of Writings , he after delivered to Lady Ivy , and among them she told him she found this Lease . Now if Serjeant Brampston swears true , that the FIRST time he found ( which in common Speech is as much as to say he knew not of it before ) a Deed under Glover's hand , ( which might well be the Lease lett by Richard Glover to Aaron Williams , which Lady Ivy had purchased ) were but six or seven years before 1675. how then was it possible that it could be ( by him ) for so Burtbee swore 't was ) recited in a Deed made in 1664 ? And had it been so recited as now 't is pretended it was , in a Deed made in 1664. to which Lady Ivy was Party , it must have been known to her self ; which in her Answer to Sir Robert Cotton's Bill , she swears it was not , but that it was by her found in May 1675. in an old Bag of Writings . And Serjeant Brampstons Deposition also says , That she at that time told him that she did find it so ; so that it is not hard to believe this Deed ( never produced till Easter-Term 1686. ) was made for the purpose aforesaid , since to support the Truth of this Deed , there is nothing more than barely the Oath of one Edward Burtbee , a man well known about Town , and that he has been all along employed by the Lady Ivy ; and so not unlikely to have been in the Secret. For the Fine , if the Deed of Uses be not true , it may be of any other five Acres : But Note , 't was Levied two years after 1664. Just about the time that Sir Anthony Bateman failed , and when Lady Ivy set up to Claim the Inheritance of it , nor is without some suspicion of having been unduly levied ( it may be ) by passing the Offices without the knowledge of Sir Tho. Ivy , and Lord Chief Justice , the Roll where the Caption of it , to which the Lord Chief Justices Hand should be in the Custos Brevium Office , being lost . And if that Fine was really levied by Sir Thomas Ivy , which is still to be doubted , for the reason aforesaid , 't is not however to be wondred at much , considering that he had covenanted to do any Act with the Land in that Lease , his Lady should desire , so it might be no prejudice to the payment of his 800 l. as aforesaid . And it may be he was made believe at that time , that it was her Inheritance by being showed the Deed of the 12 Nov. 5 and 6 Ph. and Mary , which was before that time made , and if any Deed there was made to Edward Burtbee and Edward Temple to lead the use of this Fine of five Acres , 't is plain it could not be a Deed dated in February 1664. reciting this Fifty six years Lease for the reasons aforesaid ; but must have been some other Deed , after that time made , and designed as this Fine seems to have been , in future times to make out some colourable Title to the Inheritance of this five Acres of Land , which Lady Ivy held only by Aaron Williams his Lease , that expired at Lady-day 1681. And that 't was privately done , is plain : for neither the Fine nor the Deed was ever in any Trial produced , till Easter-Term 1686. All that is to be said to the Verdict is , They were given at times when the Creditors Title , and that to Pruson's Island , were not well made understood to the Court and Jury , and when Lady Ivy's Deeds were believed . As for the difficulty of making of Deeds , a great many may as well be imagined to be made , as one single Deed , where the Ingenuity of the Party concerned , and the Nature of the Title and Place afford good Materials for it . And The Reader is now desired to take Notice , That Wapping-Marsh was one Hundred and thirty Acres drowned Land in Henry the 8th's time , and undertook to be Drained by one Vanderdelfe , and so setled by Parliament , that when Drained , it should be equally divided 'twixt the Proprietors and Richard Hill , who had bought Vanderdelfe's half . And That no Division ( though undoubtedly one there was ( it may be among themselves ) made ) is now to be found on Record : And Iasper Hill , 3 Eliz. by Fine and Recovery having sold to Macheline and Iohn Stepkins , 20 Acres of Land , and 100 Acres of Marsh in Stepney ( that being the first Sale on Record . ) 'T is in the power of Lady Ivy ( as Heir of Stepkins ) to Claim any part of the Marsh by alledging , 't was part of what her Ancestors purchased ; if to answer the Possession , there can any way a Lease be set up , and by her Ladyship's luck only ; in finding old Leases , these long Disputes have been made . For the Proprietors ( no Division appearing ) being able to make no Title , unless to the Copyhold , before that purchased by Stepkins , 3 Eliz. By such Lease she may claim any parcel she will , though the Owners thereof have had it ever since the Draining thereof ; which could not be done in another place , and makes it much easier to have been done , than it can be imagined here . And to remember , That The Title by which the Creditors claim the Ten Acres of Freehold , and Twelve Acres of Copyhold Land , and whereby the Heirs of Whichcot do claim Pruson's Island , and under which those Lands were all quietly held and enjoyed , till after Sir Anthony Bateman failed , is , by Copies of Court Roll , and Deeds on Record , against the truth of which there has never yet been , nor ever can be the least sort of Pretence : And that The Title whereby Lady Ivy Claims in particular any of the aforesaid Lands , and whereby she both Got and does Hold the same , is by Deeds , not only not on Record , but most of them such , as first have been Lost , and then Found , and that are liable to more Exceptions by many , then are herein before exprest , which will be made use of against them when occasion shall serve . FINIS . Alimony Arraignd , OR THE REMONSTRANCE AND HUMBLE APPEAL OF Thomas Ivie , Esq From the High Court of CHANCERY , TO His Highness the LORD PROTECTOR of the Commonwealth of England , Scotland , and Ireland , &c. WHEREIN Are set forth the unheard-of Practices and Villanies of Lewd and Defamed Women , in Order to separate Man and Wife . LONDON , Reprinted in the Year , 1696. The Humble Appeal and Remonstrance of THOMAS IVIE , Esq To His Highness the Lord Protector , &c. HAD it not pleased the Lord to bear up my Fainting Spirit , with more than an ordinary Confidence that the Deliverance of his People was nigh at hand , and that he would put a stop to the Violent Passions of Oppressing Men , I had undoubtedly sunk under those abominable Scandals and Aspersions , which have been cast , like Dirt about the Streets , upon me , by my Wife and her Abettors . But certainly the Day of our Deliverance is already dawn'd ; and we are in some measure assur'd , that Iustice and Righteousness is already broke forth , and that the Abominations of the Wicked shall be no more clothed with Authority ; but whatsoever is a Lie shall be made manifest , and confounded . As our Eyes are therefore on the Lord , as the supreme Fountain of all Goodness , so we trust that the Declaration of his Will shall be made out by Your Highness , being chosen by Himself in an extraordinary manner , and by a wonderful Series of Providences , to this very end , to execute Righteousness and Judgment for his People that are oppressed amongst us : And that your Highness will put on Bowels of Compassion for the Afflictions of Men in Misery , who pour out their Complaints and Grievances before you . With this Confidence I appeal from the Chancery unto your Highness ( being unable to endure any longer , either the Expences or Delays of that Court ; or indeed the Justice which is there distributed . ) For besides the hazarding of that which is better than a precious Ointment , much of my Estate hath been consumed , and great Debts contracted , by reason of my attendance upon these unnatural Differences , ( which have been fomented between my self and my seduced Wife ) much of it torn away by Violence under a Pretence of Alimony for her , to whom I never denied or refused any thing whatsoever . And that which remaineth is daily so molested with Creditors , that I now may most truly take upon me the Expression of Iob , I once had Riches , but now have none : And unless it will please your Highness to afford a speedy Redress , I shall hardly enjoy long my Liberty also . I will not say any thing of those sad and dismal Thoughts which have been continually in my Mind , those hideous Temptations , which have been hourly grating and gnawing my very Soul. During this sad Condition , 't is the Voice of the Lord only can speak Peace unto my Spirit , ( whose Name be blessed for those sweet and refreshing Experiences , with which he hath supported me in this fiery Trial ) but I shall open unto your Highness , as unto a good Samaritan , the Wounds of my Body and Fortune ; ( and briefly present a Narrative of the whole Matter concerning my self , and Wife , and how it hath been transacted in the Chancery ) That so I may with the more Confidence expect a Cure proportionable to my Disease ; and that your Highness's Judgment may be as well grounded upon Knowledge , as my Suffering upon Experience . Having faithfully discharged the Trust that was reposed in me by the honourable East-India Company ( as their chief Agent at Madrassopotan , where I had not only the Command of the Persons of Thousands of People , but also the Fort of St. George , and Town of Madrassopotan ; ) And having made a thorough Reformation of the grand Abuses which had crept into those parts , to the great Injury of the Trade ; and erected them a Town by my own Pains and Industry , even out of the Sea it self , for the better Advantage and Security of it , I resolved with my self , ( though I was often perswaded by the said Company to continue longer my Charge ) to return into my Country , where I had left the near Relation of a Wife behind me : And by how much the more that Reciprocal Happiness ( which we enjoyed together ) did revive , the more enflam'd were my Desires for a Return . But I had no sooner arrived in England , but the first News almost that was brought me , was the Death of my Wife , in her very Journey to meet me . This was the first Tryal which the Lord laid upon me : But as he corrected , so he gave me Patience and Submission to his Will in it ; neither were Friends wanting to endeavour a Belief in me , that as the Lord had taken one Wife from my Bosom , so he could bestow another . After many several Days and Months thus spent in Melancholy , and willing to inure my self to the Condition I enjoyed when I left England , I was perswaded to address my self to one Mrs. Garret , a Widow , and Daughter of Mr. Stepkins , who was represented unto me to be as beautiful in Mind as in Person ; And though her Husband had left her nothing , yet was I not deterr'd by this to forbear my Sute , supposing what was wanting in Fortune , would be made up in Affection and Sweetness towards me . Hereupon , in short , about October 1649. a Marriage was had and concluded between us ; and , that I might give the best demonstration what a high value I put upon her , I setled for her Joynture 1000 l. per ann . and Covenanted with her Trustees to leave her at the time of my Death 1000 l. also in ready money . Her Father ( now taking notice of this cordial and affectionate dealing of mine with his Daughter ) made in short this Proposition unto me , That if I would give him the said Stepkins 1000 l. more , and deliver forthwith unto his said Daughter , as many Jewels as might be worth at least 1200 l. that then he would settle his Estate at Wapping ( being 240 l. per Ann. ) upon me for my life , and after my decease to my Wife ; And in case we had Issue , then to them ; and in case we had no issue , then to the Heirs general of the said Stepkins , or such as he the said Stepkins should limit and appoint . To which I returned as short an answer , and told him , I would immediately perform his demand . Whereupon I did deposite 1000 l. in money , and 1200 l. in Jewels , and all the aforesaid agreements and settlements were Indented in Parchment , and legally executed accordingly ( as may appear from the Deeds themselves , proved by two Testimonies in Chancery , to which I refer my self . ) I make no mention what Presents , nor of what value they were , ( though considerable ) I sent her before Marriage , ( because they were purely Gifts ) but the other upon the most real and highest consideration of Marriage . I suppose it 's already evident , that had I now found the affection which I promised my self , it might be very well said to be rather purchased than gained ; for although there was 240 l. per Ann. setled upon the Considerations aforesaid , yet was it a dear bargain unto me , only for my Life , to lay down for it 2200 l. Neither was I to enjoy this until the said Stepkins should decease ; which ( if the contingency of his Death , and the Interest of the Money had been considered ) 't was more than ten years purchase for one life . Nevertheless , had there been a Return but of common Gratitude , ( much less of a conjugal Affection ) I should scarcely have entertained a Thought of Penitency for so large a Joynture , which I had setled . But certainly the Anger of the Lord began now to be kindled against us , and whether 't was for her sins as well as mine own , and particularly for being instrumental to the Disheriting of the eldest Son and Heir of the said Stepkins ( who never had demerited it in the least measure from the Father ) I know not , the Lord discover it unto us both in his due time : But certain it is , that she could not long continue her self from discovering , that 't was rather my Fortune than my Person , which she had wedded ; rather embracing Advantages of expressing Kindness to others , than her Husband . Notwithstanding many of these inconveniences did I pass over ( though 't was very grievous to be thus used so soon after our Marriage , within less than six months , and still persevere ( if with Prudence I may speak it ) with more than usual fondness ) she could no sooner propose any thing , which my Purse or Industry could procure , but 't was immediately provided ; nothing which might be either for Necessity or Ornament ( though never so costly ) but she had it , though I borrowed money to provide it . I could here tell her Highness in what Plenty I maintained her , with what sums of Money in her Purse , with her Coach and Horses , Saddle-Horses , and rich Furniture , rich Cloaths , Beds , Linnen , &c. but that I should discover too much of my Folly in it , as well as her Unworthiness . But I am confident , ( and 't is proved by sufficient Witnesses in Chancery ) that in eighteen months after our Marriage , she had spent for her Accommodations above 3000 l. whereof 600 l. was in Apparel only 500 l. in ready money . But all this could not prevail , the Multiplicity of Curtesies and Endearments towards her on my part , was but the encreasing of her Frowns and Slightings towards me ; and being unsatisfied with what I voluntarily bestowed upon her , she took all opportunity ( in my absence from home ) to imbezel what goods soever she could come at ; and at one time ( when I was at the Court of Aldermen ) she took from my House 300 pounds at least of rich East-India Stuffs , and Plate . The Company she resorted unto ( were no less offensive unto me than her actions ) being either Persons of very low Condition , or Desperate Fortune , whose Necessities and Debaucheries still prompted her to further Incoveniences . It being now evident unto me , and all our Acquaintance besides , That a sudden Ruine could not but be near to our Estates , and unhappiness to our Persons , I entered upon a serious Resolution to withdraw for a while to my Country-house at Malmsbury in Wiltstire , and persuaded my Wife to a complyance herein ; This I did , that I might pay those Debts , which I had contracted by her means , and take her from the Occasions and the Persons which had enticed her to such pernicious courses . But they ( finding it their Diana should leave London , the silver Shrine would be also removed ) were too too prevalent with her to retard her Journey ; Nay , in conclusion the absolutely refused to go with me . Notwithstanding I did not forbear all the Arguments , which either Prudence or Necessity could dictate : And that I might not neglect any Motive , which I thought might conduce to this end , I gave 100 l. to two of her Familiar Acquaintance ( whom I thought most prevalent with her ) to persuade her to accompany me into the Country . But no Charms of Persuations had any Influence , nor Reason ( though very urgent and manifest ) but was slighted . Nevertheless before I went out of Town , I writ this Paper , and left it with her ; Sweet-heart , THE Reasons wherefore I am at present forced to leave London , is in regard of the following particulars . 1. Because my House , Family , Goods and Estate in the Country goeth much to Ruine , for want of my Presence . 2. Because my Engagements in London are great , viz. 1246 l. 3. Because of these great Engagements , my Credit , which hath been of value , ( but now through some Disparagements and Evil Practices , ) is lost in London , that I cannot borrow any more money to supply yours and my present wants : And now when I thought all things had been forgotten , I heard abroad by my Friends , that by certain Warrants issued out by the States for your self , and others to appear before them , that I am ashamed to walk London streets ; and I much fear , that if I continue in London , you will in short time both ruine your self and me . 4. You are so transported by the Perswasions , and Practices of your Aunt and others , that I , nor no Friend of yours , can intreat you to leave their Company and Evil Counsel , which daily breeds Debates and Strifes between us , Notwithstanding , they have been by their ill Counsel and evil Actions , the chief Occasion of all , which hath brought us to this sad Condition and Shame that we are now in : So that I may now say with Job , I had once Riches , but they are now wasted , and once I had a Wife , but now she will be no longer mine . 5. I have no Employment or Calling in London ; which disgraceful and unquiet Life is hateful unto me , and most disadvantagious ; for I find not this Town good for my health , ( by reason of my continual trouble ) my expences are insupportable : And I protest before the great God of Heaven , my only Ioy and Comfort should have been , and shall be ( if I can any way find your Affections reciprocal , and your Compliance equal ) to support your Honour and Fortune beyond my Own : But if we continue in London , I find all will be quickly confounded and destroyed . Therefore , Dear Heart , take the premisses into good , religious , and serious consideration , and go with me unto our Habitation in the Country , by which means , all things that are past will be forgotten , whereby we shall be both happy ; for my intents are only and really to make you a happy Woman : For I protest before God , when you come into the Country , I shall render my self and Estate to your Disposure , to come and go when and where you please , which shall be faithfully and lovingly performed by me , but if not ; be pleased to take this as a sad Farewel , from thy . London 17 March 1650. Most Affectionate Husband , Thomas Ivie . And immediately after my Arrival at Malmsbury , as soon as I had accommodated my House ; I sent her this Letter . Most dear Heart , YOV cannot but be sensible of my sad condition and necessity at London , by reason of my Discontents and great sums of Mony which I do owe , and have not wherewithal to satisfie my Creditors , for had I stayed longer , I must of necessity have been carryed to Prison , or at least to my Grave ; For I was so much troubled and grieved in mind as your unkindness , and want of Money , that I thought my heart would have broken ; which so transported me , that I knew not what I did when I left you : Yet notwithstanding your unkindness to me ( if you can borrow 30 l. of any Friend of ours to supply your present occasions ) I will see it satisfied ; if not , I shall willingly consent , that you pawn some of your Iewels for so much money ; and when the India ships come home ( God willing ) I shall redeem them for you again ; and when I have paid my Debts , you shall command me and my Estate , which shall be at your disposure . I should rejoyce to see you and my Father Stepkins here ; Therefore , Dear Heart , when you have a mind to come unto me , advise me , and I shall wait upon you , to bring you down ; And when you are weary of my Company and Entertainment in the Country , ( where my self , and all that I have , shall be at your Disposure ) I shall ( when you please ) return again with you to London , and ever remain Malmsbury 24 March , 1650. Your most affectionate Husband Thomas Ivie . Instead of a Complying Answer , which I expected ( for We cannot easily despair of Things We passionately desire ) I received this Summons from the Lords Commissioners of the Great Seal , to appear before them . WHereas Theodosia your Wife hath on this present day preferred her humble Petition unto us the Lords Commissioners of the Great Seal of England , thereby praying Allowance of Alimony , as by her said Petition remaining with us doth appear , we do at her instance give you Notice thereof , Requiring you hereby to make your personal appearance before Vs , on the thirteenth day of this Instant , to speak with Vs about the same . Middle Temple the 11 day of April , 1651. Richard Keeble , John Lisle . Immediately , ( laying aside all my Business ) as fast as Passions and Spurs could quicken , I repaired to the Chancery , where I found to my great astonishment ) this false and scandalous Libel , under the Title of a Petition for Alimony preferred against me . The humble Petition of Theodosia Ivie , Plaintiff , Wife of Thomas Ivie , Defendant . THat She being the Daughter of John Stepkins , Esq and married to the Defendant , who hath ( without any cause given ( him ) not only diserted her Company , but left her destitute of all manner of Means for her Livelihood and Subsistence ; And that during the time she cohabited with him , she hath not only been in great Danger of her Life , by his Cruel Vsages , and unjust contrivances , but by some means occasioned by the Defendant , she hath been very Weak and Infirm ; And hath received from him such Infirmities , ( not becoming a Husband to confer on his Wife ; ) And that by reason of his said cruelties , and the peril of receiving from him Diseases of Dangerous Consequence , she could not cohabit with him as his Wife , without eminent peril of her Life ; And the Defendant was not only departed from her , but utterly denied to allow her any convenient Support ; And that for meer necessity she had contracted some small debts ; And therefore she prayed the speedy Aid of the Court ; And that They would summon the Defendant before Them , that upon hearing her just Complaints , she might be relieved , and have such fitting Allowance by way of Alimony granted to her , as to the Court should seem meet ; And that for the present , she may have some convenient Allowance for Expences in this Suit , she being otherwise unable to proceed therein . To which ( having sought Patience from above ) I returned this Answer . That 't is true , he Married the Plaintiff , and hath ever since used her with the Respects of an affectionate Husband to a loving Wife , and neither hath , nor did intend to desert her Company , but much desires it , if he may find respectful carriage from her ; and is so far from leaving her destitute of all means , that since his Marriage , which was not then above eighteen Months , he had furnished her with Jewels and Pearl , to the value of 1200 l. besides Apparel , which cost him above 200 l. All which Pearl and Jewels she had in her Possession in March then last past , when the Defendant went to his dwelling-house in Wiltshire , at which time , he not only sollicited her to go and dwell with him , but promised her ( upon the Enjoyment of her in the Country ) to resign both himself and his Estate to her Commands and Disposal . That he hath likewise paid her Father 1000 l. for which he should have setled upon the Defendant some Estate of Inheritance for her Portion , which is all the Fortune he ever expected with her , whereof he hath not received the value of one penny . That he allowed her for Clothes , Mony , and otherwise for her use , above 800 l. And during the time he hath lived with her , he hath spent in Housholdstuff , House-rent , and House-keeping , 2870 l. so that in eighteen Months , he hath spent with her 6000 l. And this he mentions not , as if he repented of his Kindness to her , but to evidence to their Lordships that there is no just cause of Complaint against him , for not allowing her maintenance . That he never acted any thing of Danger or Cruelty , or that might occasion any infirmity to her ; nor was there ever any Disagreement , or any Cause why she should separate from him ; But her desire was to live in London , a place neither agreeable to the Defendants health , or Estate ; He having already ( by reason thereof ) contracted many Debts : And confesseth , that having ( by consent of her Father and her self ) bought an Estate in Wiltshire , situate in a healthful air , and a place of much conveniency , delight and profit ; He hath many times by Letters , in Person , and by Friends , earnestly desired her to live with him at his said House in the Country , where she shall want for nothing in his power , for her use and conveniency , and care shall be taken for her accomodation for her Journey , wherein he hopes yet to prevail , that they may mutually enjoy the Comfort of each other , which he much thirsteth after , and is not little grieved there should be any Question of it . That he took such Order ( presently after his going into the Country ) whereby the Plaintiff was supplyed with monies for her present occasions , and presumes the foul scandals suggested in the Petition ; are well known to the Plaintiff to have so little colour of Truth in them , as he hopes the same were put into the Petition , as words of Course , rathen than by her Direction : And he utterly denies the same ; and therefore he hopes , he shall not be ordered to make Allowance to the Petitioner , ( as in the Petition ) she demands . Could ever any Man suspect to be thus dealt withal by a Woman , that had plighted her faith in Marriage to one , who had setled so great a Joynture , given her so many Gifts , so much Mony , Jewels , and all other accommodations whatsoever in the greatest Plenty , for the Consideration of nothing ? Certainly amongst the Indians themselves have I not seen so great persidiousness . Now had I just Reason to suspect , 't was not only the malicious Counsels of her wicked Abettors , was the cause of her inhumanity towards me ; but that she had in her own Breast a Principle of Enmity and Dissatisfaction , even to the Relation of being my Wife . Nay seeing the Scene appears , 't is too easie to understand what Plot is laid and concluded ; If she can survive me ( which she thinks very probable ) and hath no issue of our two Bodies ( which she is resolved never to have ) by keeping her self from me , Then will she be a Fortune indeed , and her Widdowhood be worth its weight in Gold. And if in the mean time ( during my life ) she can have from the Lords Commissioners ( by way of Alimony ) 300 l. per Annum , she will think her self in a better condition , than her Father , who had but 240 l. per Annum , both for himself and his whole Family : And to prosecute the Suit , she hath 1200 l. worth of Jewels already , and 500 l. in ready Cash advanced , and her Husband much in debt , so that peradventure she may outspend him also even at Law. But to obtain this glorious design , many difficulties are to be passed through ; And though she her self hath resolved to calumniate vehemently ( presuming that somewhat will gain belief amongst many ) yet will not this be enough ; and therefore Witnesses must be prepared of as large Consciences as Foreheads : And for their better encouragement , They shall participate in the Gain and Advantage : Welcome Expressions and Opportunities to such Persons , whose defamed Lives , and necessitous Fortunes , rendred them neither in a Capacity to live , or converse with People of any Honesty or Reputation . As for her part , her Suggestions and Insinuations were high indeed ; much fear she pretended ( for had it been more than a Pretence , all had been accomplished , and my Life lost ) left she should participate of the Sins and Punishments of Sodom and Gomorrah : And as for her Body , she durst not trust that with me , left ( at any time being Morose and Cholerick ) I should injure her by Blows ; or if kind , I should infect her with unclean Diseases . To enforce these Motives upon the Minds of all People , who now took notice of these Distractions , Never was there a more exquisite Vizard of Modesty put on by a Woman : Never were Expressions of Religion more distorted to an ill end ; no Projects and Practices of Obscenity and Murder it self , were wanting to colour these malicious Devices against me : Nay , so grosly infatuated was she in her Scandal , that she represented my Person to be more like to a Monsters than a Mans. Her Abettors are not wanting in acting their parts also ; What she insinuated , they converted into Clamours ; neither stuck to depose any thing , what possible could be believed to be sworn by them , without any apparent contradiction . Having thus prepossessed the Ears of as many Persons of Quality as she could , and framed a Harmony of Testimonies ( as well as of Witnesses ) with as much Art and Cunning , as her own Wit , or her Abettors , ( or the matter it self could supply ) she took out with much eagerness a Commission out of the Court , to make what proof she could of her Petition . Notwithstanding this further Provocation also , my Lips were lock'd up with Silence , as well as my Heart with Sorrow , not retaliating Evil for Evil in the least measure ; or so much as intimating unto her , of her first Follies ( which if they were published by me ) might have raised a great Cloud upon her Reputation : Neither was I content to be totally Passive of what Injuries had passed , but was resolved not to leave any means unattempted to reclaim her from these Extravagancies . And thereupon went unto her in Person , with Mr. Escot , Serjeant Middleton , and Mr. Booth , at Mr. Zanchey's House ( he himself being present ) and with as much Rhetorick as my real Affection to her could dictate , did passionately move her to a Reconciliation , shewing what Scandal and Dishonour would follow such Differences , and promising withal , a perfect Oblivion of whatsoever had been acted against me ; And to fortifie my Arguments the better , I desired all those Gentlemen there present , to do the Office of Christian Moderators , and to endeavour to stop the Breaches between us , which were too wide already . Nevertheless , by how much the more weight she perceived in our Reasons , the more Obstinacy she discovered in her returns , utterly rejecting any Agreement , upon what Terms soever . Hereupon suspecting in her the apparent Symptoms of a sear'd Conscience ; and how that by my silence , the World began to infer a main Guilt of those Aspersions which had been divulged against me , Upon the serious Advice of my Counsel ( though I cannot but acknowledge a very great Reluctancy thereunto ) I was perswaded to examine Witnesses also , both to vindicate my own Integrity , and to discover unto the World the Grand Cheat that was contrived to gain my Estate ( which could no otherwise be accomplished ) without defaming my Person ( and if it were possible ) to take away my Life also ; which shall evidently appear anon . But before I shall give an Account of the Proofs which were made on my behalf , I shall according to her own Forwardness and Method , give your Highness a short view , what was attested for her . One swore , That he saw me squeeze her ( at eleven a Clock ) one night , as she was going down stairs . Another that she heard my Wife complain of ill usage ( but though she lived in the House with us ) never heard me give an ill word to her . Another heard her cry out , Help , Help , Murder , Murder ; and saw me take her by the Throat : Though I refer my self to my Affidavit on Oath , yet when I shall manifest it , ( That this Woman who swore this , was brought in that very night , and next morning conveyed away ) I suppose 't will be no difficult thing to perswade any one to believe , that this Creature was brought in on purpose to be a Witness against me . The Woman that swore this , was brought in that very night , on purpose to be a Witness , and the next morning went away again . One Measler ( a pretended French Physician ) swore that she was ill ; and that there was a Suspicion of Poyson ; but this was five months after she left me ; and was commonly reported to have the Pox , ( which being a Venomous Disease ) the French-man might safely Swear ( with a mental Reservation , the frequent Practice of his Country-men ) there was a Suspicion of Poyson . This is the Substance of what was sworn against me , ( and should I name the Persons of the Witnesses , ) they were more mean than their Testimonies ; The Chief of them was her Aunt Mrs. Williamson , of whom I shall say no other , but that her Way and Living is after the rate of 300 or 400 l. per annum , though it be well known , That neither her Husband , nor her self , have any Profession to live by , or any visible Estate , nor worth a Penny ; but are so nearly Poor , That he or she dares not appear in publick lest they be carried away by Bayliffs for the multitude of Debts he owes . This is that ungodly Wretch , who too visibly hath been the Ruin , both of my self and Wife , as will appear from the Depositions themselves . One Person there was produced on her behalf ( whose Name hath a Reputation in the World , viz. Sir Iohn Brampston , ) yet all that he can depose for Her , is nothing which is material , but that he never knew her defam'd , but in this Business , and that she was bred up amongst his Children ; and that he often endeavour'd a Reconciliation between us : Whether he did it , or no , I cannot affirm , but when I was told by him lately , and never heretofore , That he had a Pre-Mortgage of the Estate of 240 l. per annum ( made unto him by Stepkins ) which was settled on me for the Consideration aforesaid , I hope , that I shall not be condemn'd , as too jealous without a ground , That he is fishing for his own Interest in our troubled waters . Were there ought else considerable deposed against me , I should deal so ingenuously as to relate it , being very confident , that at the hearing of my Cause before any in Authority , there will not be wanting Agents enough for her , to lay open the worst against me . One thing therefore more ( and that which they think most considerable against me , not in order to justifie her Complaint , but to take off a Belief , from what she knew I could prove against her and her said Aunt Williamson ) was briefly this , That I endeavoured to suborn one Holdsworth ( a poor Fellow about the Town ) to swear point blank , That my Wife was a Whore , and her Aunt Williamson a Bawd. That I may be impartial in this Narration , I shall cite the very words themselves of this Deposition which are these . That in April and May was twelve-month , He ( viz. this Deponent ) came to the Defendant , ( viz. to my self ) for Money for one Nicholas ; and the Defendant said , He could prove Mrs. Williamson a Bawd , and would have had him sworn it ; and offered the Deponent Money to Swear the Plaintiff ( meaning Mrs. Ivie ) was a Whore. That he had made the Commissioners for him ; and said , That Stepkins and all his Family were Base People , and often offered him Money to Swear ; and said , he had two Witnesses more , if he would make up the third . How much Indiscretion , as well as Falshood , was in this Deponent , and both in them , who imployed this inferior Person , and who too probably practiced that infamous Act of Creating Knights of the Post ( which seems to appear , even from the Oath it self ) For certainly , had I been provided with two Witnesses ( as he said I told him ) which number the Law admits even in the highest Cases ) it had not only been an impertinent losing of my Money , but my Honesty also , to no purpose : Besides there are scarce any so Ignorant , but understand how difficult a thing it is to prove even a Whore , a Whore. 'T was against the Advice of my Council , and my own Inclination also , to examine any Witness of so mean a Quality in such Differences , ( as these are between my self and my Wife ) left the contemptibleness of the Evidence , might derogate from the Truth of the thing : Most of those ( whom I produced to give Testimony on my behalf ) were Persons of fair Estates , many hundreds per Annum , and such , who for many years past , have been Justices of the Peace in their Country , &c. But more ( of this Nature ) I omit : For ( without Doubt ) Poverty and Honesty are not inconsistent : The most precious Saints of God , are more frequently found cloath'd with Rags , than in a King's House : Iob himself was more acceptable to the Lord on the Dunghill , than in his costly Palaces : But withall there must be a Poverty in Spirit , as well as in Estate ; otherwise , they will forfeit both their Religion to God , and their Credit amongst Men : For certainly a poor Man ( being notoriously Vicious and Scandalous ) is to be reputed rather a Vermin in Nature , than a Member of Christian Society , whose Testimonies stink in their own Nostrils , and their Memory shall perish with them . That your Highness may the more knowingly judge and determine , both of this and other Proofs against me , I humbly beg leave to lay before your Highness the Manifestation of my Answer which I returned to my Wifes Petition , and what Evidences I produced to the clearing of it . 1. To the first Charge in the Petition , That I left her destitute of all manner of Livelihood and Subsistence . 'T was Deposed , ( Besides her having of 1200 l. worth of Jewels in her Custody ) That I maintained her with Meat , Drink and Cloaths , and all Conveniencies in a very plentiful high way , l. A. fol. 19. f. 40 , 47. l. 3. f. 3 , 4 , 49 That she had the Disposal of all things in his House , f. 7. That he spent twenty Shillings a day in Meat , besides Spice , Sugar , Wine , Beer , &c. fol. 8. f. 55,56,57 . That he importun'd her to go live with him in Wiltshire , l. A. f. 4. l. 13. f. 9 , 10 , 11. That she was richly cloathed , fol. 60. Had a Coach and Horse for her use . f. 67. Besides a Coach , he provided for her Journey a single Horse , worth 45 l. f. 68. and a Riding Suit worth 40 l. and a Horse-furniture worth 40 l. more . l. B. f. 68. That she absolutely refused to keep me Company into the Country , but would rather stay with her Aunt Williamson , l. C. fol. 13. That I gave 100 l. to Serjeant Middleton , the Serjeant to the Lords Commissioners , and Mr. Pauncefoot , a Clerk to several Committees , to perswade her to go with me , l. A. f. 8. That she refused notwithstanding , l. A. f. C. And for her Reception , I immediately declared in my answer , my Willingness to receive her , and cohabite with her , and provide her all Necessaries and Conveniences whatsoever . To the Objection which follows in the Petition , That my Usage was Cruel . 'T was Deposed , That I ever expressed much Love towards her , and was an Indulgent Husband , l. A. f. 18.39 . fol. 2. l. B. f. 3. f. 48. l. C. f. 10 , 12 , 19. That I ever shewed a Willingness to pleasure her in any thing , l. B. f. 63. That the squeezing her by the arms , was but the holding of her , when she attempted to run from me , intreating her with all fair words to stay , l. B. f. 82. To the third Charge , That I had given her foul Diseases , ( meaning the Pox ) 't was not only Deposed , that I was then free , but upon the Search of my Body , ( which I voluntarily did desire might be done by able and honest Physicians ) but there was not the least Sign or Symptom that I ever had that foul Disease . l. B. f. 35 , 36. l. C. f. 4. And at that time that this was reported , she her self was free from it , l. B. f. 37. And for my further Vindication herein , I beseech your Highness to read but these two Certificates under Oath of three eminent Doctors , and one Chyrurgion ; the President of the College of London , Dr. Pruican , Dr. Wedderburn , Dr. Nurse , and Mr. Boon . WE whose Names are hereunto subscribed , do certifie , That Thomas Ivie Esq ( upon a scandalous Petition exhibited against him by Theodosia his Wife ) that he had infected her with that soul Disease the Pox ( as the said Mr. Ivie informed us ) did desire us , and voluntary offer himself to be searched by us concerning the same . Whereupon , upon search , and view , had of his naked Body , we find , That Mr. Ivie is not only free from the said Disease , but so free from it , that we cannot perceive that he was ever tainted therewith . Witness our hands , London 30 May , 1651 Francis Pruiean , President of the College of Physicians in London . Thomas Nurse , M.D. Hen. Boon , Chyrurgion . WE whose Names are hereunto subscribed , do certifie , That about the Month of June last 1650. upon the scandalous report published of Thomas Ivie Esq who lately before had married Theodosia Daughter of John Stepkins Esq that he had the soul Disease of the Pox , and had given it unto his Wife , That at the request of the said Mr. Ivie , by Examinations and Answers given by him , and others having Interest , we did find that the said Mr. Ivie was clear of the same Disease , and had no Symptoms or Token thereof . Also we ( upon Examination of the said Mr. Ivie ) did find him to be clear of the said Disease at that time , Witness our hands , London 30 May , 1651. Thomas Nurse , M. D. Jo. Wedderburne , M. D. Hen. Boon , Chyrurgion . Besides all this ( that there might be nothing wanting to make out the Integrity of my Soul , and the Clearness of my Conscience , before all the World ) I did voluntarily ( for the Court compels none in these Cases to return an answer upon Oath ) make this Affidavit before a Master in Chancery , and at the next opportunity of participating of the Sacrament , immediately before I touched those Sacred Elements , did declare and avouch the Oath , which I had taken , to be unfeignedly true , without any Equivocation , or mental Reservation whatsoever ; and did thereupon print and publish it to the World , as followeth . Thomas Ivie of Malmsbury in the County of Wilts , Esquire , and Husband to Theodosia Ivie , late Widdow of George Garret deceased , and Daughter of John Stepkins Esquire , deceased , maketh Oath , &c. HAving often with Grief and Anguish of Mind , considered those many Scandals and Aspersions which have been laid upon me by my own Wife , from whom my Soul once expected as much Happiness , as could be hoped for in a Conjugal Estate ; and finding how easie the Minds of many Persons , and those of Quality too , have been , not only to give an Ear , but a Faith also , to those abominable Reports , which she and her Abertors have raised and fomented , utterly to abolish ( if in their power ) my Reputation , either as a Gentleman , or a Christian ; both which ( I trust ) have been honourably preserved with much Constancy and Fidelity amongst thousands of Persons in those places where I have had long abode ; lest I might be adjudged guilty in those things , which are only private to our selves , and which cannot admit of any Proof or Witness on either side , her personal and single Affirmation , being the only Argument to induce the World to the belief of so vile and inhumane Actions ; I have thought it most necessary , besides these Proofs which are taken in Chancery , to vindicate my Innocency , not only with a bare Negation , but with such a one as is ratified with the Solemnity of an Oath : This I do the rather , because in these unhappy Cases between the Husband and the Wife , the Answers which are returned to the Petition , are not deposed to , as in other Proceedings in Chancery , neither can I content my self to stop here , but am willing to give the highest Satisfaction that a Christian can expect on Earth , and shall therefore choose such a time as the receiving of the most precious Body and Blood of my Saviour Jesus Christ ( of which with all Humility this day , having strictly examined my own Heart , I intend to participate ) as to declare my Innocency thereupon to those principal points which are objected unto me by my Wife : Were there any other Waters of Tryal under the Gospel , as there was under the Law , I could most safely adventure the drinking of them to clear my self before the World : But this , I hope , will give a plenary Satisfaction to all Godly and Consciencious Persons , who ( if ever ) will give Credit to the words of an afflicted Spirit , will now do it , after such a solemn sort . And I do first upon my Oath say and affirm , that I have been so far from Acting and Committing that foul Sin of Sodomy upon her Body , that I never had within my Breast the least inclination or desire to so vile and abominable a thing ; neither did I ever attempt to perswade her by fair Words and Inticements , or to move her by Threats , or ever used the least force or struggling with her to compass any such Base or Heathenish Design , as the most falsly and opprobriously charged me with . And moreover , whereas on a certain night she was necessitated , in Preservation of her Life , as she had suggested to the Lords Commissioners , and several others , to leap out of the Bed from me , to cry out , Murther , Murther ; alleging , that I offered Violence unto her by pinching , beating , and striking : Now I do protest and depose before Almighty God , that this was done without any such Provocation , even in the least measure ; Nay at the same time , while she was attempting to leave my House , and running to her Fathers , I used all the friendly and kind Perswasions which I could express to detain her , and only holding her by the Arm , without the least hurt as I believe , I often repeated my hearty Solicitations unto her to remain with me : But I do really believe , upon the consideration of several Circumstances and Passages since that time , that both her Out-cry , and her Subsequent Behaviour was design'd before that night . If any thing at that time might be look'd on as a shadow to justifie her Proceedings , it was this , That a little before she leap'd out of the Bed ( amongst other Discourses ) I intimated a Dislike of her Carriage , which was observed by others , towards one who pretended to be her Physician ; This , and this only , was all the Cause and Occasion ( if this be any ) of her forsaking me at that time . And for all other times whatsoever , I do affirm upon Oath , that I never gave her the least stroak in my Life , or ever did so much as pinch her in Jest , to the best of my remembrance , or did ever directly or indirectly , let fall from my mouth any kinds of Threats whatsoever . And I do further Swear , That until such time as she exhibited that foul and scandalous Petition to the Lords Commissioners , that I lov'd her unfeignedly , respected and esteemed her above all Creatures in the World ; and as I laid down my Fortune at her feet when I first married her , so would I have laid down my Life too , for her Good and Preservation . Nay , I do allege further upon my Oath , that notwithstanding that scandalous and false Petition exhibited against me in pursuance of her malicious Designs , she had examined Witnesses to defame me ; yet out of Christian and tender Consideration of the Relation wherein I stood towards her , as a Husband , I was willing from my Heart , and did endeavour ( by the several means of Persons of Quality , allied both to my self and her ) to compose all Differences , that we might for the future Cohabit together in Peace and Content ; and not to regard any Aspersions which she and all her Witnesses , being there examined , had cast upon me , not to retaliate in the least measure , still deferring the Examination of my Witnesses against her , and attending whether it would please the Lord to give her a sight of the Error of her way , and to return her home to her Husband , who was most willing to receive her . As to that Aspersion cast upon me , That I committed Folly with her Servant Iane Gilbert , though I need not say much to it , the Maid her self , and other credible Witnesses , having clear'd me in that point , both in Court , and on her Death-bed ; and convinced the World of the horrid and unheard-of Practices of her and her Abertors , in abusing and exposing the Body of the said Iane to the View and Search of several Men , and suborning her to give in Testimony against me ; yet that the World may know the Integrity of my Soul in this also , I do further Swear , That I never entertain'd within me the least thought of corrupting her Chastity , or did ever commit any unlawful or dishonourable Action with her , from the time I knew her to this day . And lastly , Whereas I am charged by my Wife to have suborned several Witnesses against her , and particularly one Holdsworth ; I call the Lord to bear me Record in this also , and do upon my Oath affirm , That I did never directly or indirectly , procure any Witnesses against her to testifie farther than the truth of the thing , what he or she would knowingly and safely , without breach of Faith or good Conscience , Depose . True it is , that Holdsworth being imployed as a Bayliff to arrest me at the Suit of my Wifes Taylor , for a considerable Sum of Money , which she her self was indebted for , and behaving himself civilly towards me , I gave him five Shillings , and for no other end or purpose ; And upon my Oath , I protest , that I never had any such Communication or Discourse with the said Holdsworth , to any such intent or purpose , as he hath most maliciously deposed against me . Thomas Ivie . Sworn August the 4 th 1652. Thomas Benet . WE whose Names are hereunto subscribed , do Certifie that this is a true Copy of the Oath , which Mr. Thomas Ivie did take before Dr. Bener , a Master in Chancery , which also he avouched to be truth before and after his receiving of the Sacrament , which he received since his last dangerous Sickness : As witness our hands the 5th of August 1652. Nic. Bernard , Doctor of Divinity . John Baber , Doctor of Physick . Thus much ( and I think more cannot be expected or done by a Man ) was offered for my personal Vindication ; and that it may be visible unto your Highness , with what Persons I have dealt withal : I shall summarily recite the heads of those Proofs , which were made concerning this Wife who begged Alimony ; and shew your Highness the blazing Star , which enlightned her in these destructive ways to both our Ruins ( I mean her Aunt Williamson ) concerning whom 't was Sworn , That Mrs. Williamson did ever abuse Mr. Ivie , and was an Incendiary between him and his Wife , and the chief Causer and Promoter of the Differences and Breaches between them , l. A.f. C.l.f. 79. l. C.f. 18. f. 19.27,38 . That Mrs. Williamson perswaded Mrs. Ivie not to go into the Country with her Husband , l. A. f. 60 , That Mrs. Williamson several times spoke scandalous , opprobrious , and disdainful Speeches ( against Mr. Ivie ) ▪ to his Wife , l. A.f. 51. l. B.f. 12. That Mrs. Williamson said Mr. Ivie had the Pox , and had given his Wife the Pox , l. A. f.52 . l. 3. f. 13 , 14. That Mrs. Williamson reported that Mr. Ivie had bugger'd his Wife , l. A. f. 52. That Mrs. Williamson reported , that he had got Iane Gilbert ( his Wifes Servant ) with Child , ib. That Mrs. Williamson told Mr. Ivie ( who by reason of her ill name had forbid his Wife to keep her company ) that she would keep his Wife company in spight of his Teeth , l. A.f. 60. 59. That Mrs. Williamson told Mrs. Ivie , that when she was separated from her Husband , she would enforce Alimony from her Husband for her , l. A. f. 61. That Mrs. Williamson told Mrs. Ivie , that when she was separated from her Husband , they would live together , l. A.f. 62. That Mrs. Williamson brought to Mrs. Ivie a lock of Snelling's Hair , l. B. fol. 27. of which she made a Bracelet , set it with Ribbans , and wore it on her wrist , l. C.f. 29. That Mrs. Williamson bid her wear it next her heart , l. B. f 30. That Mrs. Williamson encouraged Mrs. Ivie to give her Husband base language , l. C. f. 31. and told her , she did well therein , l. C. f. 32. That Mrs Ivy relating , how She had given her Husband ill words , Mrs. Williamson run unto her , and told her 't was well done , l. C. f. 33. That Mrs. Williamson received the Goods , which were embezlled from Mr. Ivy by his Wife , l. B. f. 40. That Mrs. Williamson sollicitated Mrs. Ivy , to let Snelling lie down with her on a Bed ; ( and when she had effected it ) went out of the Chamber ; and left M. Wheatly to keep the door , l. C. f. 43 , 44 , 45. That Mrs. Williamson encouraged Mrs. Ivy , not to give any Accounts of moneys which She had received from her Husband ; Telling her , what was her Husbands , was her own , and why should she account for her own , l. cf. 58. l. A. f. 61. That Mrs. Williamson lived in a house of ill same in a little blind Alley , l. C.f. 72. That Mrs. Williamson seldom lives with her own Husband , l. C. f. 79. That Mrs. Williamson made Snelling a Favourite of Mrs. Ivies ; and that she not only perswaded Mrs. Ivy , but cry'd out unto her to lie down on the bed with the said Snelling , I. C. f. 83. That Mrs. Williamson called Mr. Ivy Clown , and Fool ; and advised Mrs. Ivy not to go with him into the Country , l. C. f. 13. And that he was an ugly fellow , l. C. f. 20. That Mrs. Williamson carried Letters for Mrs. Ivy to her Gallants , l. C. f. 16. That Mrs. Williamson said , She hated Mr. Ivies child , because 't was his , l. C. f. 21. That Mrs. Williamson brought Mr. Snelling to Mr. Ivies house , after he had forbid him , l. C. f. 21. That Mrs. Williamson ( the very next day after Mr. Ivie married his said Wife ) made horns and mouths at him behind his back , l. C. f. 21. That Mrs. Williamson reported that Mr. Ivie had a Whore , and it being replyed , that 't was hard to prove any such thing ; she answered , that she would hire a Whore to lie with him , and take him in the fact , and so obtain Alimony for Mrs. Ivie , l. C. f. 26 , 38. That when Mrs. Ivie said , she should love her Husband very well ; Mrs. Williamson replyed , that if she should love her Husband so well , they should be all undone , l. C. f. 26. That a Fortune-woman looking in Mrs. Ivies hand , and telling her , that she and her Husband should live long together , immediately thereupon Mrs. Williamson wish'd her hang'd for her news , l. C. f. 25. That Mrs Ivie telling Mrs. Williamson , that her Husband gave her so good words , that she knew not what to do , ( meaning , whether she should proceed in the plot against him ) at which Mrs. Williamson answered , Hang him Rogue , Damn him Rogue , l. A.f. 52. How horrid the actions of this Person have been , in some measure is laid open ; but how contagious the conversation ( of this monstrous and unchristian wretch ) is , will be too sadly and experimentally demonstrated by these following Depositions concerning my Wife and her self ; about whom 't was sworn . That notwithstanding the great Estate I had setled upon her , and the vast summs of money I had expended for her use and ornament , which any one would think , ( had been enough to have purchased a common Gratitude and Civility to a Husband ) she immediately after our marriage slighted me to my face , never returned , in the least measure , any reciprocal affection , l. A. f. 39. 1. That immediately after our marriage , she held correspondency with Sir William Kilegrews Son , under the name of Ornaldo , called her self Callis , l. C.f. 15. 2. That the said Killigrew confessed upon his own Oath four Letters that he had sent her , and always writ himself Ornaldo , and her Callis , Kill . own Deposit . 3. That she admitted both Sir William Killigrew and his Son her Corrivals ; and that young Killigrew threatned to kill his Father , and her Husband also , l. c.f. 15. 4. That Sir William Killigrew chid Mrs. Williamson for suffering his Son to be so familiar with Mrs. Ivie , l. C.f. 15. 5. That Mrs. Ivie ( under the name of Callis ) promised to Ornaldo a Courtesie , l. C.f. 15. 6. That Mrs. Williamson was used to carry Letters between them , l. C.f. 16. 7. That if Mr. Ivie did carry her into the Country without her consent , Ornaldo would pistol him , l. C. f. 16. 8. That she received Letters , and held Correspondency with one Mr. Snelling , whom Mr. Ivie had forbid his Wives Company and house , and forbad her likewise to receive him , l. C. f. 15. 9. That Mrs. Williamson brought in Mr. Snelling to Mr. Ivies house , ( after that he had forbad them both ) and Mrs. Ivie received them , l. C. f. 2. f. 18. l. B. 79. 10. That Mrs. Ivie went abroad after her Husband was in bed , to meet Mr. Snelling at Mrs. Williamsons house ; and both Mr. Snelling , and Mrs. Williamson brought her home to her Husbands door , which was about 12 a clock at night , l. C.f. 27. 11. That Mrs. Ivie going out of her Bed-chamber after Mr. Ivie was in bed , and being asked by him whither she was going ? replyed , that she was retiring to her devotion , but went to Mrs. Williamson , l. C. f. 25. 12. That she was with Mrs. Williamson and Snelling , ( who lay there by the name of Clerk ) a whole day , at the Sugar-Loaf in Long-Acre ( a inspected house , ) l. C.f. 11. l. C.f. 25. 13. That she was frequently conversant with Snelling , l. C.f. 74. f. 22. 14. That Mrs. Ivie met with Snelling at a Cooks house of ill Report in a blind Alley in St. Martins Lane , l. C. f 76. 15. That Mrs. Ivie lodged and abode there , out of her husbands house , many days and nights together , l. C. f. 72. 16. That she refused to return to her Husband , when he sent for her , l. C. f. 73. 17. That she being asked by her Husband at any time ( when she returned home ) where she had been , refused to answer , l. C.f. 77. 18. That Snelling had spent a 1000 l. on Mrs Ivie , and Mrs Williamson , B.f. 26. 19. That Snelling came up into Mr. Ivies Bed Chamber with a Pistol in his Pocket , and questioned him ( before his Wife ) for forbidding him his House , l. C. f. 23. That Snelling would defend her with Pen and Sword , l C. f. 23. 20. That Snelling came often to Mrs. Ivie , when her Husband was out of town , l. C. f. 22. 21. That Snelling was frequently private with her in her Bed-Chamber , l. C. f. 23. 22. That she lay out of her House , when her Husband was out of town , l. A. f. 40. 23. That when her Husband was out of Town , she made a great Feast for Mr. Snelling , Mrs Williamson , Mrs Wheatly , Mrs. Nowell ; All three notoriously known to be — l. A. f. 42. At this time the Plot for Alimony , and the practices upon Iane Gilbert ( which cost her , her life ) were in probability contrived . 24. That Mrs. Ivie sent to Lilly , who ( amongst other things ) returned this Caution to beware of two Women , describing Mrs. Williamson , and her Companion Mrs. Wheatly , l. A.f. 57. 25. That she often sent to Fortune-Tellers , and particularly to one Mrs. Nowell aforesaid ( lately Cook maid to my Lady Cunny ) l. A. f. 58. l. C. f. 33 , 34 , 35. All that she enquired of these Wizards , was to know how long I should live . 26. That when Mrs. Ivie was separated from her Husband , then she and Mrs. Williamson would live together , l. A.f. 62. 27. That Mrs. Ivie her self laid Copperis in the Window , and gave out in speeches that her Husband had laid Poyson there , l. A.f. 53. 28. That her Chirurgion , ( being asked how she did , after he had visited her , ) said that her hair came off , and shook his head ; And that he had made her an Issue , l. A.f. 62 , 63. This was above six months after she had left me . 29. That she immodestly said before two , viz. Snelling and Killigrew , that her first Husband had done the part of a man , twelve times the marriage night , But that this Husband had done but eight . 30. That she was two familiar with her own Father , his hands were seen under her Coats , l. C. f. 18. 31. That Mrs. Ivies Father was often in bed with her , l. C. f. 20. 32. That she gave 100 l. to her Brother , and promised to keep his Wife , in case he would murder her Husband ; and procured from the Council of State a Pass to carry him beyond Seas , after the murder was executed . This was proved in the upper Bench the Term , before my Lord Chief Justice Roles ; and she was Bound over to the good Behaviour : The Pass was there produced , and is now in my Custody . Besides these short intimations , many foul and horrid stories ( could I have produced ) of Designs for my Destruction : but because I was not able to make out clear and evident proofs of them , I was unwilling either to trouble the Court , or disturb my own thoughts , with any thing less than Realities and Demonstrations . One History , or rather a Dismal Tragedy , acted by my Wife , Mrs. Williamson , and their conspiracy , was with all its Circumstances , so clearly delineated in the Depositions , that I should wrong my Cause , should I not relate this also : and perhaps few Romance's or Gusman himself can parallel it . It being resolved at the Feast , ( which was held at my house , when I was in the Country ) by my Wife , Mrs. Williamson , Mrs. VVheatly , and Mrs. Nowells ( being the Persons ) for whom that Treatment provided ; That though the Scandals of Sodome were sufficiently high , which had been divulged against me ; and would render me odious to the World : Yet seeing 't was but a matter of Fact between us two in private , which could not be proved more , than by her single affirmation ; and that her own Midwife ( having search'd her for that very purpose ) had so streight a Conscience , that she would not swear that my Wife had been injured in those parts ; Did thereupon conclude , that some other way must be found out , which might admit of Testimonies ; otherwise , they suspected , my Wife could hardly obtain Alimony , or procure a separation from me . Hereupon it seems , This Plot was afterwards put in execution upon Iane Gilbert : It s proved , l. C. f. 115. This Wench they picht upon to be the Instrument of their Design , because she being actually a Servant in my House , it might be thought very easie for me to find an opportunity to lie with her ; and being also of a sickly disposition , it would be no difficult thing to raise a suspition , that she might possibly be with Child , especially , being not well recovered of the Dreggs of the Small Pox , which she had had a little before . Hereupon Mrs. Williamson ( that she might the better colour her Intention privately ) carried this Maids water unto one , whom they call Trigg , a Shoo-maker ( as I have heard ) by Trade , and enquired of him , whether the Party that made this Water , were not with Child ? Trigg ( having good Instructions , and doubtless a large Fee ) Ordered Mrs. VVilliamson to bring the said Iane Gilbert unto him , and he would search her . At her return home to my Wife , there was a new consult , how they might carry the Maid to Trigg , and make her willing to be searched ? leave that to me ( said my Wife ) and immediately went unto Iane Gilbert , and said , Ienny , my Father hath sent for my Aunt VVilliamson and me to Breakfast to morrow morning , and hath commanded me to bring thee with us , because he hath provided a Dish of Milk and Eggs , that which he knows thou dost dearly love : and the maid little suspecting any mischief , couch'd under this pretended Kindness ) thank'd her Mistress ; but by reason of the many cloaths she had to steel and starch against the Morrow , ( being Sabbath-day ) was willing to be excused : Nay , Ienny , replyed my Wife , you must and shall go ; for I know my Father will be angry , if we bring you not . So a Coach being call'd , my Wife , Mrs. VVilliamson , and the Maid went to Mr. Stepkins house , but neither found him , nor the Milk and Eggs : Ah , quoth Mrs. VVilliamson , are we serv'd ●o ? we 'll make a mornings work of it , now we are out ; methinks I have a rumbling in my Guts , pray let us go to Doctor Trigg ; Agreed , said my Wife ; and as they were passing from Mr. Stepkins to Triggs house , my Wife and Mr. VVilliamson ( being very frolick ) began to jest with the said Iane Gilbert , and persuaded her to make Trigg believe , she was a new married Woman , and so that would put a Trick upon the Doctor his skill . After they were all arrived in the Doctors presence , Mrs. Williamson made a private address unto him , and pretended to have acquainted him with the pain in her Guts . But having ended her Tale in private , What think you , said she , of yonder new married Wife ? Trigg ( having felt her Pulse , and bid her spit once or twice ) told her , she was Splenetick , Like enough that , quoth Mrs. Williamson ; But is she not breeding Doctor ? Yes , I warrant you , said he ; so the wench turning about , and smiling , was bid go out by Mrs. Williamson , ( that she and her Mistress might have some private Discourse with Trigg , about the Drink which they had given her ) which she did accordingly , whilst her Mistress , Mrs. Williamson and Trigg held a long Conference together ; when this Scene was over , All returned home . About three or four days after the said Iane Gilbert , having been promised leave by my Wife to go visit her Friends in the Country , for the Recovery of her health , my Wife took her into her Chamber , and said , Ah Ienny , But I have somewhat more to tell you , and thereupon shut the Chamber door , none being present but them two , and Mrs. Williamson , ) 'T is commonly reported , Ienny , quoth my Wife , that you are with Child , and 't is my desire to have it clear'd : Tush , said Mrs. Williamson , if it be so , I warrant you 't is by the Best in the house ; ( meaning my self ) Let us know it , for we can , and will conceal it , and so dispose things , that it shall never be a discredit , or disgrace unto her ; Nay , if she will confess that she was with Child , they would provide for her ; But said they , if you will refuse to let us know it , and go into the Country , we will Report , that you are gone to take some Physick to destroy the Child . The Maid now considering what snare they had brought her into , by going to Trigg , ( as aforesaid ) being persuaded to act the part of a new married Woman , was astonished at this Surprizal , and cryed out , the Lord protect me , for I am very innocent from any such thing ; and withal my heart , said she , will I do any thing , that may give you satisfaction , or clear my self from this Scandal . Look here , saith my Wife to her , my Father hath sent me a Letter , where he says , That Doctor Trigg says that you are certainly with Child ; and if you will not confess , you must be whipped in Bridewell . As they were thus Discoursing , ( often intimating that 't was their Design to make this Maid confess her self with Child by me ) in came Mrs. Sessions , my Wives Midwife , whom she persuaded to search Iane Gilbert , which she willingly submitted unto ; and the Midwife ( in her presence ) acquitted her from being with Child . Hereupon my Wife commanding some tears from her Eyes , wept passionately ( as she seemed ) and breaking into great Passion , said , Ah Ienny , have I loved and entertained thee thus long , been as kind to thee , and as tender of thy good , as if thou went my own Child , and canst thou conceal any thing from me ? Doubtless thou art with Child ; and therefore come , put on your mask , for you shall once more to Doctor Trigg , who understands these things better than any Midwife ; and he will prove you to be with Child : And that you may not think I have any Plot upon you , ( that Objection was very strong within her ) put on your mask , ( that the Doctor may not know your face again ) and fetch your Water ; and Mrs. Sessions shall go with you . The Maid being perplexed in mind , and far from any of her Friends , knew not what to do in this condition : But being urged by her Mistress went again with the Midwife . After the Midwife had given Trigg her Water , and discourst with him privately ; he called to Iane Gilbert , and bid her go up stairs with him : But the poor Wench ( not knowing which to prefer , her Modesty or Innocency ) refused to go with him ; until at length ( being clamour'd at , and absolutely forced up to his Chamber ) she was necessitated to follow him : Where Trigg began to acquaint her , that her Mistress Mrs. Ivie , had told him , that she had been too familiar with her Master , and therefore he must search her : And did thereupon ( in a most rude and violent manner ) force his hands under her Coats , to her naked Body ; and did use her in a most abominable way , &c. And when he had effected his business , he told the Midwife that she was with Child ; though the Maid absolutely and earnestly denyed the same . Hereupon they left Trigg , and returned to my Wife , who having heard the Relation from Mrs. Sessions , what had been done ( being totally unsatisfied ) caused her to be carryed to another Physician , Dr. Hinchley , and shewed him the Water ; and desired him also to search her in like manner : But his Verdict was unlike that of the ( Mountebank ) Trigg ; for he peremptorily avouch'd she was not with Child . Notwithstanding all this could not satisfie the aim of my Wife , and Mrs. Williamson : But once more she must expose her Nakedness to the search of another Doctor , a Man-midwife , Dr. Hinton , who in like manner , as Dr. Hinchley ( notwithstanding Mrs. Williamson and my Wife did earnestly sollicite him to attest that she was with Child ) acquitted her from being with Child ; and would justifie her to be a Virgin. These two Testimonies did no way forward their Design , for by this means , all the pains in Threatnings and Persuasions , ( to acknowledge her self with Child by me ) began to undervalued , by how much the more the said Iane Gilbert had been acquitted by the two Doctors and Midwife , and accused only by that Ignorant Quack Trigg . And therefore seeing the Wench was so obstinate that she would not comply with them , ( and least at my return she might discover this unto me ) a new Project was set on foot , so to terrifie the Wench , that she might leave London immediately . And thereupon they came unto her , and told her , that Mr. Stepkins , my Wifes Father , would do her a notorious Mischief if she would not acknowledge her self with Child : Mrs. Williamson advised the Maid to go for a while into the Country , until Mr. Stepkins's anger was over . Upon this account she was sent away to her Father's House in Hertfordshire , where immediately after her arrival , she received a Letter from my Wife , that her Father Stepkins was so incensed against her , that he would not suffer her any longer to live with my Wife . Notwithstanding the great love she bore , she would not leave her destitute of a Service , but would provide a convenient Place for her . Scarce eight days had passed , but down comes Mrs. Williamson to her ( pretending she had been at Cambridge ) and came out of her way on purpose to see her ; Though 't was evident she came directly from London to the said Iane Gilbert . Insomuch that the Maid suspected some farther ill towards her ( having been formerly so abused ) but parling together about former Passages , The Maid asked Mrs. Williamson , what Ill she had deserved from her Mistress , that she should be so disgraced as she had been ; and though she found her guiltless , she should now be put away ? Well , quoth the Maid , by God's help I will be to morrow in London , and will endeavour to right my self from these Aspersions . Whereupon she found the end of Mrs. Williamson's Journey ( was to hinder the Maid from coming to London ) ( because I was the day before arrived out of the Country ) lest she should see me , and discover what had been done unto her , in order to make her confess that I lay with her , and that she was with Child by me . Mrs. Williamson now perceiving that the said Iane Gilbert was resolved to make a stir in this foul Business , returned with all speed to my Wife , and wished her to think of a way how to hinder her from speaking with me . The next day , as soon as the said Iane Gilbert came to my House , my Wife met her at the Door , and giving her many good words , perswaded her to take a Lodging near that place , ( and change her name ) and that she would pay for it . The Maid ( very much troubled at this usage ) was very pressing to know what Offence she had ever given her : Truly , quoth my Wife , Sweet Ienny , I love thee most dearly ; But the Truth of all is , my Husband and his Friends give out , that 't is unfit for me to keep a Gentlewoman to wait upon me , besides common Servants ; and that 't was their Envy towards her , and therefore she must be gone : But withal assur'd her , that she would provide a convenient place for her . My Wife now thought , that she had ( by this Trick ) made the Maid believe me to be the sole cause of her turning away , and sufficiently exasperated her against me ; yet did not despair of a Compliance from her , and therefore said , For my part , I am content you stay this night , ( that she might farther try her ) and to morrow thou shalt have another Lodging look'd out for thee . But my Wife understanding the next Morning , that I began to parle with the Maid about the passages aforesaid , ( which indeed were communicated to me in the Country ) knockt very furiously for her to come up into her Chamber ; and commanded her immediately to leave the House , and would not suffer her to speak any more to me . Whereupon she went to one Mr. Price's House , a Brother of one of her Fellow-servants , and lay there privately , ( as she thought ) but 't was made known to my Wife , who immediately sent a Maid to sound of what Temper she was , and how she stood affected towards her : And it being return'd , that she was full of Disdain and Passion , by reason of the aforesaid Practices against her ; and that she would forthwith send for her Trunks , they were immediately seized upon by my Wife , and locked up in her Closet . Notwithstanding , upon this Report , the Maid did not send , but came her self to demand her Trunks ; and I seeing of her in the House , began to ask again , why she went away , and upon what occasion that Searching of her ( by Men and Women ) were ? But her Mistress calling her Queane for acquainting me with it , and threatning to strike her for it , denied her the Trunks , and caused her forthwith to be sent away : And the very next day Mrs. Williamson and my Wife gave out in Speeches , ( amongst my Family and Neighbours ) that they had broke open the Trunks , and had found that she had been a Baggage , and a notorious Thief , and stollen her Goods . And thereupon ( the better to secure the Wench , either for complaining of these Abuses , or telling me the Truth of her Usage ) they procured a Warrant from my Lord Chief Justice Roles to apprehend the Maid for her Life , ( having charged her with Felony . ) But finding that the Maid kept in , and that by vertue of the said Warrant , they could not enter any House to take her forth , they entered into a new Project , how the Wench might be secured ( both Tongue and Person ) and also , that they might seize on her wheresoever she was . To this end Mr. Pauncefoot was look'd on as a fit Instrument ( having Relation to the Lord President Bradshaw ) and was desired to procure them a Warrant from the Council of State , upon Pretence that this poor Wench held Correspondency ( with the Enemies of the Commonwealth ) beyond Seas , and so apprehended her : By vertue of which Warrant she was seized on accordingly , and kept close Prisoner eighteen days together with great Hardships . During this Imprisonment , a Gentleman came to this Wench from my Wife , advising her to humble her self to her Mistress , and to confess her self Guilty , and much to that purpose , but she ( being Innocent ) utterly refused any such Acknowledgment . During this Imprisonment , many Petitions ( for to be heard at the Council ) did she attempt to present , but were still kept off by the means of the said Pauncefoot , neither could she ever be heard . At length my Wife and Mrs. Williamson finding nothing could prevail ( after Sorrow and Grief ( in this lamentable Condition ) had almost killed her , they had contrived a meeting for the Wench ( by the permission of her Keeper ) in Moor-fields ; where , as soon as my Wife saw her , she fell into a deep fit of Weeping to the Wench , and told her how dearly she loved her , and that she was in perfect Friendship with her , and earnestly desired that all things ( which had passed ) might be forgotten ; promising withal , ( that in a very short time ) she would abundantly express , how sensible she had been of her late Sufferings . Hereupon my Wife , without ever acquainting or procuring their Order for her Freedom , ( only giving the Messenger of the Council of State 20 l. ) caused the Maid by her own Power ( by which it seems she stood committed ) to be set at liberty . But very suddenly after Enlargement ( her Body being quite spent , and her Mind almost distracted with Grief and Melancholy ) she died ; and in her Death-bed professed solemnly ( that by reason of those Cruelties , which had been practised upon her by Mrs. Williamson and Mrs. Ivie ; and especially by the Operation of a Potion given her by them , ( which upon the words of a Dying Woman ) she believed to be Poyson ) That they had been the cause of her Death ; and that she doubted not but that the Almighty God would require her Blood at their hands . After these things were laid open to the Lords Commissioners for the Great Seal ; I little expected that Vices should be received for Reasons ; that such Abominations should have been thought worthy the Protection , not to say the Encouragement of such eminent Judges ; but with Grief of Heart , and empty Purse , may I say , that I found experimentally their Chancery rather a Court of Oppression than good Conscience ; nay , I have this peculiar in my Case ( that after all Witnesses on both sides were examined ) they never afforded me that Favour ( which they omitted to none ) as to command me and my Wife in Person to attend them , and to endeavour a Reconciliation between us . This I thought hard measure , because I was informed all others had participated of that Civility from them ; and the more hard , in regard my Wife had frequent and private Addresses unto them , and I was never admitted any . The Consideration of this not only astonished me , but gave me a strong Alarm also to be very Circumspect , lest I might have as little Justice in their Sentence , as I had savour in their Proceedings . And that on the other side , when I remembred they openly declared before my Council , that nothing should be concluded without sending for both Parties , and also their Parties ; and also their Order of the 27 of October 1651. that they had denied her any Expences of the Suit , in regard the Merits of the Cause should be speedily heard ; I could not conclude within my self , but that I should be dealt withal according to their own Rules , and Practice of all the of England ; and that a Summons ( upon a day of hearing should be first sent ) e'er any Sentence pronounced , or Decree made in the Cause . But what I often suspected , and was intimated unto me by others , I had now too much reason to believe . For after eight Months ( having all that while never received any command to wait upon their Lordships ) when all my Counsel was out of Town , Iuly 24. 1652. ( Her Counsel Mr. Vincent , and Lieut. Col. Zanchey , her Sollicitor , with a Sword by his side ) presented unto the Lords Commissioners , a final Decree ready drawn ; ( it not being first perused by Counsel of my side , as by the Rules of the Court it ought to have been ) for no less than 300 l. per Annum , ( a fair Sum , and enough to tempt a good Woman to be bad : ) The Draught of the Order is thus . Lords Commissioners . Saturday 24 of July 1652. Between Theodosia Ivie Plaintiff , and Thomas Ivie her Husband , Defendant . WHereas the Plaintiff having exhibited her Petition ( against the Defendant her Husband ) to be relieved for Alimony , unto which the Defendant having put in his Answer , divers Witnesses were examined by Commission , and others were ( by their Lordships Directions ) also examined by the Register , in the presence of Council on both sides ; And for the better clearing of the Matters , and Satisfaction of their Lordships therein , their Lordships were also pleased themselves to examine several Witnesses , viva voce ; And the Cause having taken up many days in hearing , ( after much Debate and Pains spent herein ; And upon full and deliberate hearing of what could be offered on both sides : And upon reading of the said Depositions , and of the Indenture made upon the Marriage ; whereby the Estate of the Plaintiffs Father is settled upon Sir John Brampston Kt. and William Booth Esq to the uses in the said Indenture declared : ) Their Lordships were fully satisfied , that there is good cause to give Allowance for Alimony to the Plaintiff ; And do Order , and Decree , that the Plaintiff have paid unto her the Sum of 300 l. by the year , which their Lordships intend to be had and raised out of the Plaintiffs Father's Estate , so setled in the said Trustrees , as aforesaid , until farther Order : And do therefore Order , that the said Defendant , and the said Trustees , shall authorize , or permit and suffer the Plaintiff , or whom she shall nominate and appoint , from time to time , quietly , and without Interruption , to receive the Rents and Profits of the said Lands : And the several Tenants of the Premisses are hereby ordered to pay the same accordingly , from our Lady-day last ; And the said Trustees , and the said Tenants , in so doing , are to be saved harmless by the Decree of the Court. But in case the said Lands are in a greater yearly value than the said 300 l. per Annum , And that the said Defendant shall at any time signifie so much unto their Lordships , And undertake and sufficiently secure the Payment of 300 l. per Annum , ( quarterly unto the said Plaintiff ) by equal Portions , to begin from our Lady-day last , then the said Defendant is hereby decreed to pay unto the said Plaintiff , the said yearly Sum of 300 l. accordingly , until further Order , at aforesaid : And that the said Trustees are in such Case to permit and suffer the said Defendant , and his Assigns , to receive and enjoy the Rents and Profits of the said Fathers Estate , ( any thing herein contained to the contrary in any wise notwithstanding . ) Rob. Dod , Deput . Regist. Being advertized by a Friend of these irregular Proceedings , and perceiving what a Considerable part of my Estate was aimed at , I addressed my self immediately with this Petition to the Lords Commissioners , August 19. To the Right Honourable , &c. The Humble Petition of Thomas Ivie Defendant , Husband to Theodosia Ivie , Plaintiff . Sheweth , THat several Papers have been brought to your Petitioner , intituled ●● Orders from your Lordships , but without any Subscription of the Register , or his Deputy . That at the end of one of the said Papers 't is mentioned , that unless cause ( at the next Privy Seal ) be shewn to this Court to the contrary by the Defendant , That 300 l. per Annum , therein mentioned , shall be decreed : But on what day the next Privy Seal will be , or in what place , is not expressed in the said Paper ; Neither can your Petitioner ( by all possible means and industry ) find when and where he may attend your Lordships . Insomuch , that your Petitioner hath just Ground to fear ( if any such Order be ) either he may be surprized , or a Decree might pass against him , without his Knowledge of the time , wherein he might make his just Defence , especially all his Papers being at present in the Custody of his Sollicitor , Mr. Cox , who is not in Town . In tender Consideration whereof , may it please your Honours to declare , whether any such Order was made by the Court ; and at what time and place your Lordships have or will be pleased , peremptorily to appoint , to hear the Defence of your Petitioner , who with all humility and willingness , will attend your Lordships ; Hoping by God's assistance , to give a full Demonstration of his Innocency and Integrity ; and to wipe off all the foul Aspersions whatsoever , which have been cast upon him , to ruine both his Person and Estate . And your Petitioner shall ever pray , &c. All the Return ( that I could obtain from the Lords Commissioners ) unto the said Petition , was this ; Let Mr. Ivie attend us , to shew us Cause , according to the last Order , on Tuesday next . 19th of August 1652. B. Whitlock , R. Keeble , J. Lisle . On the Tuesday following I did attend in Person , but without any Counsel ; all being in the Circuits with the Judges : And if could have found any , it had been almost impossible to have fully instructed them in the Cause , there being so many Depositions , and those of so great Length . Whereupon I renewed my humble and earnest Request unto them , with all the Vehemency I could express , That they would make no Decree , before they heard the merits of the Cause on both sides . Notwithstanding , I found 't was their Resolution to sign that Irregular Paper , and to declare before-hand , that they had found just Cause for Alimony ; The Preamble of the Decree being full of Reflections , and containing several Insinuations against me : All that they thought fit to add , was this Clause , [ Vntil further Order . ] A dear Expression in Chancery , and as costly as the other , [ Vnless he shew Cause . ] Now , and not before , was the Order ( which they commonly call the Decree , having put the Great Seal unto it ) delivered unto the Register to enter , which first ought to have been drawn by him , and then perused by Counsel on both sides . Had any one but heard , what smooth words the Lords Commissioners gave me at this time , telling me , That it should not be prejudicial unto me , and that they would hear my Counsel at any time , come when I would , and that 't was but a Temporary thing , and that they would deal tenderly with me , in so tender a Case , as between Man and Wife , one would have almost been persuaded , that it had been my duty to have given my consent also : But though there was Honey in their Mouths , yet was there too too much Gall in their Ink , and Wormwood in their Decree . Had they but considered the Deed of Covenant which ( they professed ) they had perused , 't would have appeared very evident , that there was no shadow for so great allowance , as 300 l. per Annum : When her Father himself , and my Wife also made to me a Proposition , of giving her the liberty of living where she would , and setting out for her fit allowance , they themselves did desire , no more but 120 l. per Annum Depos . l. Besides of the Articles ( in my custody ) which they caused to be drawn to the same Purpose . But I suppose the Lords Commissioners were so far from considering what they signed , that they never read the Deed , which they mention ; nay , I think , I may safely say ; They did not , or would not consider the Act it self , for Alimony . For that Act impowers them , to give only such Alimony , as is proportionable to the Fortune which the Woman brought ; and that also to be raised out of the Husbands Estate . Whereas the truth is , she hath not ( in all her Proofs ) proved , that she had been , or in probability could ever be worth a Penny to me . And as for that Estate , which the Lords Commissioners did decree unto her , 't is true , I had an equitable Title unto it ; but it really did belong to the Heir , at Law , until such time as I had performed some small Covenant . Insomuch that Mr. Stepkins , his Son and Heir , also was injured by these proceedings of the Lords Commissioners ; for which he hath often made his Complaint , as well as his just Title in Law , though to little purpose . I know full well , what shadow the Commissioners put on this dealing ; but whether it be just and righteous , I submit to your Breast , and that is thus . That although it was Convenanted , between Mr. Stepkins and my Trustees , that in case I did not perform all the Covenants ( to which I had obliged my self ) then was the said Estate of 240 l. to go to the use of the right Heirs of the said Stepkins , until such time as I should perform . By virtue of this Clause , did young Stepkins , lay claim to the said Estate . Yet say the Commissioners , that Mr. Stepkins the Father ( Who had reserved unto himself the Remainder of the said Limitation , to me and my Wife ) made a Will ; and by that Will had acquitted me from any further Performance ; insomuch that the Estate was now totally belonging unto me . This I believe my Wife told them ; and peradventure shewed them such a Will ; and this is their Ground : But by their leave , I cannot think , till such a Will be legally proved , That it can be any Ground for them , to give away the Estate in such manner , as they have ; upon a bare suggestion of one Party , for whose interest and profit it was . Certainly had they been as conscientions Judges ( as they are Judges of Conscience ) they would have first caused her to prove the said Will , ( which then had clear'd the Estate from the claim of my Brother Stepkins , and saved me the expences of some Suits in Chancery , for no other end than to get the Will produced , which to this day , I am not able to do ; Notwithstanding I have a Bill of Complaint depending before them for that purpose . ) Nevertheless all these discouragements , it pleased the Lord to give me a proportionable measure of Patience , to submit unto his correcting hand ; and in the most sore Afflictions ( which I have undergone ) he hath not with-held his loving kindnesses from me , nor the sweetness of his refreshing Spirit ; though many Oppressions and Grievances were daily multipled , and many new Suits at Law were let on foot against me by my Wives means , who now seemed justified by them ; and my self vilified and undervalued . Yet was I not clamorous at their Bar , neither was I ever admitted to any private Speeches with them : or indeed did ever seek it ( being confident ) that my cause wanted the Protection of Justice only , and not favour ; but waited , still expecting when they would put their good Promise in Execution , and send for us , and endeavour a cordial Reconciliation between us . But after two months were expired , and hearing nothing from them to that purpose ( though many several Friends of Quality had moved them thereunto ) I addressed my self with an humble Petition for a hearing . After it was read , they appointed a day ( though it was somewhat far off ) yet it did abundantly revive me , hoping that that day would be the end of my trouble ; and that then , my Reputation and Estate , might be repaired ; my Person freed from the continual molestation of Catchpoles ; And my Wife her self ( whom I had perfectly forgiven ) restored unto my Bosom . The Order which the Lords made in Answer to my Petition , was this . Saturday 29th of April , 1653. Between Theodosia Ivie , Plaintiff , Wife of Thomas Ivie , Defendant . UPon the Defendants Humble Petition , ( this day preferred to the Right Honourable the Lords Commissioners for the Great Seal of England ) shewing , That in the unhappy difference fomented by evil persons between the said Parties ; and the said Plaintiff hath petitioned their Lordships for Alimony , ( being separted from her Husband ) without his Consent ; Thereby intending to live a-part by her self ( contrary to the Marriage Stipulation ) to the destruction of the mutual happy Comfort , ( that might , and ought to be between parties so nearly joyned ) pending with Suit ; Their Lordships ( as Iudges of good Conscience ) did often move her to Conformity and Reconcilement , chiefly desired by the said Defendant , but the Plaintiff refused ; And by an Order of the 24th of Iuly last , their Lordships were pleased to appoint her 300 l. per Annum out of her Fathers Estate , until further Order ; And the said Defendant ( being daily arrested and troubled for the said Plaintiffs Debts ) cannot walk the streets , without molestation , by the Officers and Bailiffs ; It was prayed , That some day ( as soon as to their Honours shall seem meet ) may be appointed to hear the Defendants Reasons , and the merits of the Cause , why the said Order should be nulled ; To command the Defendant and his Wife to be personally before their Lordships at the same time ; so that there might be a final Conclusion of these unhappy and unnatural Differences , under which the Defendant hath long groaned , to his utter Ruine : Their Lordships do thereupon Order , that Counsel on both sides be heard in the Business the first Day of Causes in Trinity Term next . Iohn Sandford , Deput . Regist. My Hopes and Expectations being now raised from the Dust , I considered with my self , how I might represent the Case between me and my Wife , with the least prejudice to her : For upon some Debatings about the Witnesses I had examined against her , I found the Breach still made wider , by her Lawyers aggravations , than it was really in it self ; what was but a scar , they would tear open into a wound ; nay , they preferr'd a seeming Rhetorick so far before a Christianity , that rather than they would exasperate , they would speak Point Blank , to the very Papers they held in their hands . And therefore , to prevent the like Inconveniences , and aiming at a perfect Reconciliation , I drew up all ( that Counsel could be instructed in , or could offer at the Bar ) into writing , and for each Commissioner had a Paper ready to be presented ) as follows . To the Right Honourable the Lords Commissioners for the Custody of the Great Seal of England . WHereas the Daught of an Order was on Friday August the 13th made , and presented unto your Honours by the Counsel of the Plaintiff , and Mr. Zanchie her Sollicitor , not entred into the Registers Book or drawn up by him from any Notes taken in Court , or was ever perused by the Defendants Counsel before it was signed , according to the Rules of the Court ; in which Order it was mentioned , that 300 l. per Annum should be raised out of the Fathers Estate , which was setled at the Marriage upon Sir John Brampston Knight , Orlanlando Bridgman , Esq and William Booth , to uses , &c. and upon the reading of it , it was ordered by your Lordships at the same time , that unless the Defendant should shew cause at the next Privy Seal , a Decree should pass accordingly ; And whereas it was ordered by another of August the 19th , That on Tuesday following the Defendant should attend , and shew Cause why the said 300 l. per Annum should not be decreed ; May it therefore please your Honours to consider these following Considerations , which are all proved upon Oath , and good Evidence ; wherein he hopeth it is sufficiently cleared , that the Plaintiff neither ought to have any Alimony out of that which was her Fathers Estate , or out of her Husbands . Mrs. Ivie , the Wife of Thomas Ivie , suggesteth by her Petition to the Lords Commissioners , That her Husband hath deserted her , and left her no means to live ; That during her Cohabitation with him , she was in danger of her life , and became very weak , and for peril of receiving from him diseases of dangerous consequence , she cannot Cohabite with him , and prays Relief . The Question is , Whether in this Case she ought to have Alimony . In which it will be pertinent , to consider the near conjunction that is between Man and Wife , and whether they be of equal Authority , or there be a Superior , and in whom that Superiority resteth . 1. The Original female Ancestor was taken out of Man , and by the Marriage-bond were made one flesh , though several Individuals , like the Celestial Gemini , that makes but one Constellation ; but the Government was placed upon the Man by God himself , who gave the Law in Paradise , saying , Thy desire shall be to thy Husband , and he shall rule over thee , Gen. 3. v. 16. 1 Cor. 14. v. 5. 34. and by the Apostle remembred , That Women are commanded to be under obedience ; so saith the Law ; and that they submit themselves unto their own Husbands , as to the Lord that is supreme , Eph. 5. v. 22. Thus far for the Divine Law. 2. The Common Law says , That a Woman that is married , is not sui Iuris , but sub potestate Viri , hath no will but her Husbands , though she may have a Stomach ; therefore the Civil Acts she does are void in Common Law ; she can neither take nor give any thing without her Husbands consent ; She can have no reparation for any wrong done unto her Person by her self , without her Husband , and the damages that shall be recovered , shall go to the Husband and not to the Wife ; And it is further to be considered the extention of that word Potestas ; It is of a great latitude , for Soveraign Princes and Governours , though they have rule and power of the People ; Yet they cannot beat , wound , or kill the People under them , nor do any thing to their Persons corporally ; but according to their Laws , by Sentence or Judgment : But the Husband hath power of Correction upon the Body of his Wife , and Servant , according to his own Judgment , so as he doth not wound nor kill , and is not prohibited by any Law. 3. The Civil Law ( as I take it ) agrees with the Common Law ; then it must follow by necessary consequence , that a married Woman without leave cannot depart from her Husband , which she must evidence by proof , no more than a Servant from his Master , a Subject from his Soveraign into forreign parts , who by his Missives is to return upon forfeit of his Estate ; which makes good what was said before , that she is not sui Iuris , and in some sort expounds and explicates the potestatem Viri in Vxorem ; for the Master may seize and carry away his Servant , if he find him , or implead him that shall keep him , and recover damages for the time he keeps him ; so may the Husband by his Wife ; which shews the propropriety and interest which the Husband hath in his Wife , and for loss of her society and company ( though no other harm be done ) he shall recover damages against the detainer . Nay the Husband could not repudiate his Wife , but in case of Adultery , for that the Bill of divorce spoken of in the Old Law , was not given by God , but permitted by Moses , to prevent a greater mischief ; for the Iews are cruel Men to their Wives , and to prevent Vxoricidium , he gave way to it , Sed non fuit sic ab initio . The Case thus stated upon the impotencies and non-ability of the will of the Wife , and the just Rule and Power of the Husband over her Will and Person ; t is considerable , whether by Law or Reason , a Wife departing without leave , shall have allowance to live separate , which is called Alimony . Alimony is a Thing not known at the Common or Civil Law , but indulged , and brought in by the Pope and his Canons , and very much put in Use by the late High Commission and Prerogativive Court of Canterbury , wherein , upon Sentence of Separation from Bed and Board given by that Court , the Husband was enjoyned to make allowance to the Wife , and the Husband enforced to give security for the payment , and many times imprisoned upon failure of performance ; yet in those cases , both of Bonds and Imprisonments , the Husband upon Habeas Corpus returnable in the upper Bench , where by Judgment of that Court , discharged of both , if the Husband cohabit , because the Law says , Quos Deus conjunxit , nemo separet . So as without the Husbands consent no separation could be made , and if no separation , no Alimony . Nor were personal Infirmities or Diseases contracted after Marriage sufficient cause for such separation , because she may Board though not Bed with such a Husband ; but where the temper of her Husband was more severe and violent than discreet , That Court by the wisdom of prevention , which is better than the wisdom of remedies , did use , by way of caution , to take bond for the Husbands orderly usage of his Wife , to prevent the cruelty , whereof they had no Jurisdiction , but only in causes and salute Animae , and not pro reformatione Morum , which belongs to the Common Law , and where upon complaint by the Wife in that kind , the Common Law will enforce the Husband to give bond to secure both life and member of his Wife from maim and death . And certainly Reason is against it . 1. Reason commands obedience to Superiors , generally the Apostle puts it further , for Conscience sake , and disobedience is not cherished by any Reason . 2. One end of Marriage is Mutual Society and Comfort , would be avoided by the Act of the Wife , which is not to be admitted upon the petulant Allegation of difference betwixt her and her Husband upon personal Infirmities . 3. Marriage it self , and all the Laws of the Wifes subjection and capacity by so long time pronounced and received , by this means would be avoided . 4. If God himself was pleased to say , it was not good for a Man to be alone , then surely we may safely say , it is not good for a Woman to be alone ; for though they are the weaker Vessel , and have the lesser Reason , yet they have the stronger Passions , and more violent Desires , and so more subject to Temptation and Sin. 5. For the inevitable Danger of illegitimate Bastards , and Clandestine Issues ( where the Wife is separate ) who concealed it till the Husbands death , are yet inheritable to his Land ( though never begotten by him ; ) This Inconvenience sadly weighed , and how Epidemically it may run to all Families of this Nation , is of it self a sufficient convincing Reason , to bridle the rash hot appetite of inconsiderable women , and avoid all Alimony . But on the other side , if any Husband shall be so unjust to his Wife , and unkind to his own Flesh , whom he is bound by Law to maintain , as to separate from her , and will not cohabite with her , Nisi propter Adulterium , or will consent to separate , it is most reasonable he should allow her convenient maintenance ; else he should take advantage of his own wrong and humour , and Women should be in a worse case and condition than Servants , who , during their contract , must have their Wages , which between Husband and Wife ends not till death . And it is conceived the Act of Parliament , which impowreth the Lords Commissioners of the Great Seal to allow Alimony , chiefly and naturally intends Relief , where the Husband doth repudiate , and not the Wife ; the words being upon consideration as well of the Portion or Estate that hath been paid , or come to the Husband by such Wife as shall pray Relief . And therefore in this particular Case , it may be very justly insisted , even from the Sence and Letter of the Act ; as also that 't was Mrs. Ivie separated her self from her Husband , 't was not her Husband left her ; Nay , after she was gone , he used all affectionated and prudential means to bring her home to Cohabit with him , neither doth he desist in the prosecution of it , but hath several ways attempted it , even until this day , and doth still declare and protest his willingness to receive her , whensoever she will Return , and give security for his well Usage of her . That she wanted nothing before her departure , but was indeed maintained far above her quality , is most clear from the Depositions , and it is clear also from the Depositions , that there was no deserting of her by her Husband , but that her departure was absolutely upon Advice and Consideration design'd by her self and her Abettors , especially if your Lordships please to remember those unhandsome correspondencies held by her with Gentlemen under feigned names ; her frequenting and meeting them in scandalous houses in Long-Acre and other places , at unseasonable times of the Night , under the pretence of withdrawing from her Husband ( being a Bed ) to her Devotion ; Those horrid and detestable plots upon Iane Gilbert , even to the losing of her life ; Her charging her Husband with foul diseases , of which he was cleared upon Oath by the President of the College and other learned Physicians ; And also her Contrivances and Sollicitations to her Brother Iohn Stepkins to murder her Husband , which appears by the Oath of the said Stepkins . Moreover seeing that there is a Caution in the Act , that the allowance to the repudiated Wife ought to be proportionable to the Fortune she brought her Husband : May it therefore please your Honours to understand , 1. That he never received any penny Portion as yet , and hath great reasen to doubt whether ever he shall . 2. Because the Estate of her Father is at the present in the aforesaid Trustees , and not in the Defendant , nay it is so setled on them , that unless I can raise and secure 4000 l. more besides 7000 l. already laid out , they are not obliged , neither will they , nor can they convey it to the Defendant , as appears by the Indenture of Settlement . 3. In case they should convey and settle on the Defendant the said Estate , 't is only for his life , and no longer ; for which Estate , being only 240 l. per Annum , He has disbursed and laid out far more money than it is worth ; this appears from the Indenture ( viz. ) a 1000 l. to Mr. Stepkins in ready money , to free the Estate from incumbrances three years since . The Interest whereof comes to 200 l. In Jewels , Pearls , Ambergreeze , Bezoar , &c. to the value of 1200 l. There was also spent in Law to enforce the Trustees , who were kept back and hindred by Mr. Stepkins her Father , to settle the Estate according to the Covenants , and for the Fine and Recovery 200 l. more at least , which makes 2600 l. That notwithstanding all the aforesaid Sums of Money have been laid out by the Defendant , the Trustees do still refuse to convey the Estate to the Defendant , and the Plaintiffs Brother ( as Heir at Law ) hath since the Death of his Father , got the Possession of the Estate , and receives the Rents , Issues and Profits thereof : Insomuch that the Defendant hath been necessitated to expend great Sums of Money to maintain several Sutes at Law , both against the Trustees and Heir at Law , in Preservation of his Estate for Life , which he has so dearly bought as aforesaid . That by the Plaintiffs means there has been consumed and wasted of his Estate 4000 l. ( viz. ) 3000 l. since Marriage spent on her , 500 l. given in Money , 100 l. given to Gentlemen of her Familiar Acquaintance , to perswade her to go into the Country , 300 l. taken in Silks and Plate from the Defendant , whilst that he was at the Court of Aldermen : He has also contracted several great Debts to the value of 3000 l. besides 1000 l. spent in this unhappy Sute , and must therefore necessarily ( in case 300 l. per Annum be taken from him ) be cast into Prison the most part of his Life ( he having but 632 l. per Annum of his own Estate ) and that for his Life only , both to pay all his Debts aforesaid , and to live on beside . Excepting the 240 l. per Annum , which if it be recovered from the Heir of Stepkins , and recovered by the Trustees , all which will yield but a scant and bare Maintenance for himself , Wife and Family , to raise out of it 3000 l. for the Creditors , and 4000 l. more according to the Indenture of Settlement , unless the Defendant be acquitted and discharged of the said 4000 l. by the last Will and Testament of the Plaintiffs Father , in whom the remainder of the Estate was , in case the Defendant should have no Issue , or not perform the Covenants which he stands obliged to perform in the said Deed : And though the Defendant is credibly informed , that the said remainder is disposed of to the said Plaintiff , and the Defendant is also acquitted from all performance of any Covenants expressed in the said Deed of Settlement ; Yet so it is , that the Plaintiff having got Possession of the said Will , and by Combination with Sir Iohn Brampston Kr. &c. his Son , the sole Executor of it , still keeps and detains the said Will from being legally proved : Insomuch that the Defendant cannot make any Benefit of the said Estate , nor by Law enforce the Plaintiff to produce the Will ( she being his Wife . ) That this is not a bare Suggestion , I doubt not but is very evident to your Lordships , she and her Sollicitor Zanchey having often avouch'd in your Lordships presence , that both there is such a Will , and that your Lordships have seen it : This is also very well known unto her Council Mr. Maynard , who caused to be delivered unto Sir W. Row a true Copy of the said Will taken from the Original , which was long in his Custody . But such is the Plaintiffs Malice to the Defendants Person and Estate , that she still suppresses and hinders the proving of it , which is the sole cause of the Continuance of many great Sutes and vast Expences to the Defendant , both with the Heirs at Law , the Executors of the said Will , and the Trustees of the said Estate ; That both the Defendant and Plaintiff must necessarily be defeated of all Hopes of ever enjoying the Father's Estate for the future , unless the 4000 l. aforesaid be raised and disposed of , according as is limited and appointed in the Deed of Settlement , or the said Will proved , for in Default thereof , the Trusttes are obliged by the said Indenture to settle the said Estate on the Plaintiffs Father , and his Heirs for ever . And the Estate is not as yet recovered by the Defendant , but is still invested in the Trustees , ( who are no Parties to these Proceedings ) and in the Possession of the Heir at Law ; Insomuch that no Alimony , as the Defendant is advised by his Counsel , can be ordered from hence , because the Ordinance of Parliament impowereth the Lords Commissioners to allow the Maintenance out of the Husband's Estate , not out of any others whatsoever . And the Plaintiff hath or ought to have in her Custody 1200 l. worth of Jewels , which were delivered her according to the Indenture of Settlement at the Intermarriage : And in case the Defendant survive her , ought to be restored to the Defendant , who hath too great reason to suspect that they are wasted and embezelled ; and therefore the Defendant humbly beseecheth your Lordships , that instead of giving her Alimony , you will be pleased to force her to give good Security unto the Defendant , or bring the Jewels into Court , that so he may not be cheated of 1200 l. by the Plaintiff and her Abettors ; and unless your Honours yield to secure the said Jewels whilst this Cause depends before you , he doth not conceive where or how he can be redressed from any Court of England . That about the beginning of these Unhappy Differences , it was proposed both by the Plaintiff and her Father , that in case she might have her liberty to live where she would , that she would accept of 120 l. per Annum , for her Maintenance , and look on it as a very good Provision ; which accordingly was agreed upon , and drawn into Writing , and Engrossed , by and with the Consent of Sir Iohn Brampstone her Uncle , and Orlando Bridgeman Esq two of her Trustees ; her Father also promising that his Estate should be setled according to the Covenants on the Defendant , without further Sute of Law ; but the said Defendant was unwilling to Seal it , being very tender to Act any thing that might separate him from the continual Enjoyment and Society of his Wife ; so that 300 l. per Annum is more than her self , Father , Trustees and Friends , did think fitting by 180 l. per Annum . That the Petition it self is both False and Scandalous , and hath been disproved by several Witnesses ; nay the contrary also proved by Persons of Quality , that she lived very Plentifully in great abundance , rather beyond , than under her Quality in every respect , as the Defendant hopeth is most visible to your Honours . That notwithstanding such vast Sums have been expended on her by her means , and that the said Defendant is to pay to Creditors 3000 l. and to raise 4000 l. more to be secured unto the Trustees as aforesaid ; And that in case he recover the Plaintiffs Father's Estate , 't will not , with his own , make above 872 l. per Annum , out of which all these Moneys must be raised ; and in case 300 l. per Annum of this shall be taken away out of the Plaintiffs Father's Estate , which he has dearly bought , and purchased ; That 't will be impossible for the Defendant to avoid perpetual Imprisonment , but must be kept in Goal , and the Creditors Defrauded , and must there perish , and himself be cheated also of 1200 l. worth of Jewels ; yet he is most willing to receive her , and take her , again , and forget all former Passages whatsoever , that so they may be for the future lead a peaceable and godly Life together . Counsel also I did retain , very many , and great ones ; That in Case the Lords should refuse the Papers , and would not hear the Merits of the Cause in Publick , ( in regard I might not be wanting , to lose the opportunity of that Time which they had ordered for me ) I drew up also to be rendred at the same time ( that ( if it had been possible ) I might have prevented both Reading and Arguing too ) this short Petition following . Theodosia Ivie , Plaintiff , Thomas Ivie , Defendant . To the Right Honourable the Lords Commissioners for the Custody of the Great Seal of England . The Humble Petition of Thomas Ivie , Defendant . Sheweth , THat your Petitioner ( with much Horror and Amazement ) doth consider the great unhappiness of his future life , if your Lordships shall both separate him from the Society of his Wife , and take from him so great a part of his Estate , having such great debts to pay , as have been made appear to your Lordships . That he cannot Despair in the infinite Mercy of God , in whose hands are the hearts and desires of all Mankind , But that his Wife ( notwithstanding such vast sums of Money have been wasted , and such odious aspersions cast on him ) may yet return , and take Comfort from her Husband ( being passionately desirous to receive her ) if all Christian and prudent means , may be applied . That for your Petitioners part , he doth ( as in the presence of God ) forgive her from the bottom of his Soul , and is most willing to cohabit with her , so long as he liveth on Earth . That he hath often desired to express unto her , and used all the Industry ( as Man can imagine ) but once to speak with her ( even before any of her Friends , to let her know so much ) but could never obtain any such meeting from her . In Order hereunto , he very willing that a Godly and Conscientious Divine , ( may be received to live in house with your Petitioner and his Wife , ) both to exhort and instruct them in their Duties towards God , and one another ; and to perform all Gospel , and Family-Duties amongst them : for certainly the Lord will not deny a Blessing on those means which he hath ordained ; and which is unfeignedly sought after by a broken and contrite Spirit . And your Petitioner will oblige himself to allow any such Minister 50 l. per Annum , besides all other conveniences whatsoever . May it therefore please your Lordships , not to pronounce any such hard Sentence ( as Separaration ) but rather enjoyn your Petitioner and his Wife to live together ; and to appoint any honest and religious Divine to live with them , who may ever be at hand pray with them , and for them , and keep up their Spirits in Peace and Unity together . August 24th . 1652. And your Petitioner shall pray , &c. Thomas Ivie . When the Day came , and the Counsel began to speak , my hopes were quickly commanded to vanish , and the Counsel to hold their Peace ; for they suddenly declared , That they would not hear the Merits of the Cause . With much pressing , Mr. Lisle read the Petition ; And though they took evident notice of it , yet would they not return any Answer to it ; or so much as demand of my Wife , ( who stood there laughing in their Presence ) whether she would return to me , or no ; Only they were pleased to find fault with that word [ Separation , ] And told my Counsel , That they neither had , or could separate our Persons . These words they had no sooner spoke , but ( I confess ) I laid hold on ; though I had been most hardly and severely dealt withal , in the judgment of those that were present . Insomuch , That now I did despair , ever to find amongst them , and indeed , did determine to commit my Cause unto God , until ( in his due time ) he should raise up Judges in our Israel , who should execute Righteous Judgment , even upon those Judges themselves . But in the mean time , I was advised ( which was very agreeable unto my own Disposition , not to leave any thing unattempted , which might be thought advantagious to a union of Us , ) but to go personally to my Wife , and persuade her my self , to leave those Persons who aimed at both our Ruines , And to return to me , ( passionately willing to receive her . ) And if she should , ( notwithstanding ) refuse to speak , or go with me , then to demand her of those Persons who received her into their houses . Accordingly , ( taking two civil Gentlemen ) I went to her Lodging , but received a Repulse from her , instead of Compliance ; and then , seeing Mr. Williamson ( who kept the house ) I required from him the person of my Wife , who refusing her , was sued by me . And upon the Tryal before my Lord Chief Justice Roles ( a renowned Person ) had a Verdict , Judgment and Execution of 100 l. against the said Williamson , for detaining my Wife from me . Many Counsels there were to argue the Case ; and the Decree in it self ( under the Great Seal of England ) was opened , read and shewed the Jury : But my Lord Roles quickly stated the resolution of the Case in my behalf , and the Jury gave me 100 l. damages . Williamson ( now finding himself in a great Dilemma ) either to deliver up my Wife , or himself , to ruine ; and my Wife in so bad a condition , ( notwithstanding her glorious Decree ) that although she had 300 l. per Annum , yet if she could not take the liberty of her old Companions , or any new one ( wheresoever she should be entertained ) for fear of Judgment and Executions ; began to take new Counsel , how to free Mr. Williamson and her self from this bondage of living under the Roof of a Husbands House ; and the truth is , sollicited it to the purpose ( amongst her old Patrons ) the Lords Commissioners . For with all speed , Williamson prefers a Bill in Chancery to be relieved against my Execution . And after he had preferred his Bill ( though my Answer was so clear , as it could not admit of one exception ) moved for an Injunction ( after Judgment and Execution granted at Law ) and to protect him for keeping away my Wife ; which was granted in these words , ( as fully as he could desire ) being ingrossed in Parchment and sealed . THE Keepers of the Liberty of England , by Authority of Parliament ; To Thomas Ivie , Esquire , and to his Counsellors , Agents , and Sollicitors , and every of them , Greeting . It was informed in our Court of Chancery 10 November instant , in the behalf of George Williamson , Plaintiff , against you the said Thomas , that the Plaintiffs Bill is to be relieved against an Action and Iudgment , thereupon obtained against the Plaintiff , upon pretence of the said Plaintiffs detaining of your ( the said Defendants Wife ) from you ; and it appearing in a Cause of Alimony , between you , the said Defendant , and your Wife , that their Lordships decreed her Alimony , during Separation ; In which time , she ought to have a Habitation a part from you the said Defendant , as well as a separate maintenance , or else , the Decree were groundless : And we conceiving the doings of you ( the said Defendant ) to be altogether unjust , Do command and by these Presents strictly enjoyn you the above-named Thomas Ivie , and you his said Counsellors , Attorneys , Agents , Sollicitors , and every of you , under the pain of 500 l. to be levyed of your Lands , Goods and Chattels to our use , That you , and every of you , ( do from henceforth ) surcease and forbear all further Proceedings ( at the Common Law ) against the Plaintiff upon the said Action and Iudgment thereupon , until the said Cause shall be finally heard and determined before us in our said Court ; And this you , nor any of you , may omit in any wise ( under the penalty aforesaid , ) Witness , our Hands at Westminster 10 November , 1653. Vera Copia ex May. This Injunction ( being now Granted , Signed and Sealed , with the Commissioners Hands under the Great Seal of England ) is the Accomplishment of all their Designs ; and the compleating of my Misery ; though the Courts of Law , both could and have ( in some measure ) relieved me ; yet is the power of it restrained by this Injunction ; which indeed I suppose can be called nothing else , than a perfect Separation and Divorce : Whether the Chancery ( being stiled the High Court ) ever receives from any Parliaments , such an unlimited power as this ; It behoves them to make our unto your Highness . 'T is the Opinion , both of the greatest and honestest Counsel of England ; That no parallel for this Case , no President of the like Nature , is to be found on Record ; Nay , they are not backward to aver , That it is as contrary to the Word of God , the Law of the Nations , the Civil Law , the Law of our own Country , as well as the Practice of the Chancery it self . Once did that Court ( by its own Authority ) issue out a Sequestration upon a Gentlemans Estate , and it was by very many Persons admired , and murmur'd at ; but never could I hear , that they ever sequestred Women from their Husbands . Were there not a superiour Jurisdiction over this Court , ( whose Determinations seems too too Arbitrary , ) being gounded solely upon the Opinions ( not to say the Passions or Affections ) of two or three Erring men , what a miserable Bondage and Slavery were this Nation in ? What Benefit could we expect from all the good Laws of former Ages , if their power may be quell'd , or supprest at the pleasure of the Chancery ? They might have ( for ought I know ) made an Injunction also , that I should never complain ; and if I had attempted to have made known my Case , to have laid me by the heels . But blessed be the Name of our God Iehovah , whose extraordinary Providence hath been visible in this Land , that he hath raised up and setled your Highness to be next under himself the Supreme Dispenser of Justice and Righteousness to these Nations , which the Lord has happily placed under your Highness Government . By which means we have a just confidence to be assur'd , having had many Experiences already of your Highnesses singular piety and justice in those several Stations where the Lord has formerly placed you . That there shall be no more complainings made , either in our Streets , or in the very Corners of our Country , but shall be heard , and relieved , even against the Great Ones amongst us . 'T is your Highness Power therefore which I implore ; 't is only your Power can free me from those Fetters which are laid upon me by the Lords Commissioners ; only your Power that can repair me for the Injuries done , ( both to my Person and Estate , which I have undergone ) by Reason of my seduced Wife ; 'T is you alone , that can restore me the Benefit of the Law , against those that have been Incendiaries and Abettors of these unnatural differences between us : That so my Reputation ( which hath been a long time clouded ) may be made clear ; my Person ( which hath continually be molested with Carchpoles by my Wives means ) may be at length free ; And that I may be in a condition to satisfie my Creditors ( their just Debts ) whose Purses have supported me ; and that a final end may be put to these unnatural differences , concerning my Wife , as in Justice and Conscience shall seem meet unto your Highness . In order to this , I have delivr'd in my Petition , and the state of my Case , to Mr. Sadler , and Mr. Long , to be delivered unto your Highness , In these words . To the Parliament for the Commonwealth of England . The Humble Petition of Thomas Ivie , Esquire . Sheweth , THat your Petitioners Wife very suddenly after her Intermarriage with him , having got from him a Ioynture of 1000 l. per Annum , with 1000 l. in ready money to be left her at the time of his death , and 1200 l. in Iewels , 600 l. worth of Cloaths , 500 l. in ready money , and accommodation to the value of 3000 l. in less than in 18 months time , ( and all this without one Penny Portion with her ) hath not only deserted his Company , but hath preferr'd a Scandalous Petition to the Lords Commissioners for the Great Seal against him , yet nothing material proved . That by these unnatural Courses , she hath caused him to spend 3000 l. in this and Twelve other Suits at Law ; by which means aforesaid , your Petitioner is become indebted at this present time 3000 l. more at least . That he hath often tendred unto the said Commissioners his Willingness to receive her , and to give any security which they can require , to use her with all loving Respects becoming a good Husband . Notwithstanding the said Commissioners have allowed her 300 l. per Annum Alimony ; and refused to hear the Merits of the Cause , though they had ordered it under their hands ; and have also granted an Injunction to protect such ( who keep the Person of his Wife from him ) contrary to Law. Insomuch , that your Petitioner hath no Remedy left in Law or Equity . ( All which may more clearly appear by the State of his Case and Narrative hereunto annexed . ) May it therefore please your Honours to commisserate his sad Condition ; and ( in regard she obstinately refuseth to Cohabit with him in the Quality of a Wife ) to vacate the said Order of 300 l. per Annum ; and to null the said Joynture of 1000 l. per Annum , and 1000 l. in ready money ; and to enforce her to return the 1200 l. in Jewels , whereby your Petitioner may be inabled to satisfie his Creditors their just Debts ; and that Reparation and Satisfaction may be made , both to his Reputation and Estate , as shall seem meet to your Honours Wisdoms and Justice . And your Petitioner , &c. To the Parliament for the Common-wealth of England . The State of the Case of Thomas Ivie , Esquire . THat Mr. Ivie , about October 1649. took to Wife Theodosia Garret , Widow , Daughter of Iohn Stepkins , Esq on whom , by reason of the great affection , which he bore unto her , he setled 1000 l. per Annum , Ioynture , and gave also security to leave 1000 l. in ready money at the time of his death , and this without any consideration of a Portion from her Father , or any Estate left her by her former Husband , who not only left her without a Joynture , but in debt also . That the said Stepkins perceiving how really Mr. Ivie stood affected to his said Daughter , and with what chearfulness and willingness he was resolved to settle all his Estate for the good and preferment of his said Daughter ; was content , that if Mr. Ivie would free his the said Stepkins Estate , which was 240 l. per Annum then encumbred with several Debts , or pay a 1000 l. towards the same , and deliver into the hands of the said Daughter 1200 l. in Jewels , that then it should be setled on Mr. Ivie for his Life , and afterwards to the use of his Daughter for her Life ; And in case , he had no Issue by her , then to the Heirs general of the said Stepkins , or such as the said Stepkins should limit and appoint . Whereupon Mr. Ivie did deliver unto the said Theodosia , rich Jewels , to the value of 1200 l. in ready mony to the said Stepkins , to free his Estate accordingly . That Mr. Ivie then expected a reciprocal return of his affection , which he had so cordially demonstrated : But when the said 1000 l. was paid , and a firm and legal settlement of the Joynture made , and the Jewels delivered to his said Wife , He found great reason to suspect , that 't was rather his Fortune than himself , which she had wedded : For she not only sought all means to avoid his Company , but chose out those as she thought might be most offensive to him , and such ( whom by reason of the scandal they lay under ) he had prohibited her to converse with . Notwithstanding , seeing it was the pleasure of the Lord to unite them in so near a union ; Mr. Ivie was resolved not to leave any fair and honest motives ( either of Purse or Persuasion ) unattempted , which might encline her affection towards him ; and in order hereunto ( there was nothing which she ever proposed , which might be for her content ) that he did deny unto her : And in less than fourteen Months , she expended in Apparel , 600 l. in ready mony 500 l. and for other Accommodations about 2800 l. besides the 1200 l. in Jewels , and 1000 l. in mony aforesaid ; which amounts to 6100 l. Nay , the Gifts were so great he bestowed on her , That he supposeth , she was even ashamed to request any more from him . Nevertheless she , by the evil Counsel of her Confederates ( while he was at the Court of Aldermen ) did convey out of his House , Plate , and rich East-india Stuffs , to the value of 300 l. and divers other goods , which were by her and her Confederates carried away and imbezeled . That Mr. Ivie now finding his own Estate , as well as his Wives Affection , too too visibly declining ; and that nothing could attend such an unhappy condition , but Ruine and Dishonour ; to prevent both , persuaded his said Wife to retire with him for a while to his Estate in the Country ; thinking thereby to to take her off from the Temptations of those seducing Persons , who engaged her in such pernicious courses . But instead of a compliance , he found a greater Obstinacy than ever ; neither could her own Friends , ( who then persuaded her to leave the City for a while ) prevail with her . And that there might be no industry wanting to persuade her , he gave 100 l. to two persons of her familiar Acquaintance , to be urgent and sollicitous to endeavour the Accomplishment of his desire . But by the Practises of the said Confederates , she was seduced to the preferring of a vile , scandalous , and false Petition to the Lords Commissioners against Mr. Ivie for obtaining Alimony ; but not one syllable of her suggestions proved against him : Nay , the contrary proved by Mr. Ivie , by the several Testimonies of many Persons of good Quality and Reputation , as appears by the Depositions themselves , besides his own Oath , which he made in answer to the scandalous aspersions cast upon him . Notwithstanding this Vindication , after two years dependance in the Chancery , and the Expences of almost 3000 l. in this unnatural , and twelve other Suits at Law , ( which were commenc'd against him , by the means of this Suit ) she obtained from the Lords Commissioners an Order in private for 300 l. per Ann. Alimony . ( Notwithstanding Mr. Ivie was always ready to receive her , and use her in all Respects according to her Quality neither , Mr. Ivie ) nor his Counsel being present . Notwithstanding they declared , That they would send for Mr. Ivie , before they would give Judgment in the Case ; But never as yet did , nor ever yet heard the Merits of the Cause ; which ( in respect of the proceedings ) was contrary to the Rules of the Court ; and in respect of the Allowance ( in case Mr. Ivie had been guilty of the Complaint ) contrary to the Act of Parliament . Having thus Affliction added to Affliction , and being in Debt by the means of his said Wife above 3000 l. And having not wherewithal to sell to pay his Creditors , ( And in regard the Reversion of his Estate is setled on his said Wife ) he attended almost a year upon the Lords Commissioners for his Relief , that they would be pleased but to grant him a fair hearing upon the Merits of the Cause , in the presence of both parties , with their Counsel ; which was by their Order accordingly granted , and a Day by them appointed . But when the Day came , and Mr. Ivie had retained to his great charge , many great Counsel , the Lords Commissioners absolutely refused to hear the said Cause ; which hath exposed the said Mr. Ivie and his Wife to all manner of Temptations , and their Persons and Estates to utter Ruine . And although at the same time Mr. Ivie did Request the said Lords Commissioners to recommend any godly Minister , whom they themselves should choose to live in house with him and his Wife ( as an Expedient to a Peace and Reconciliation between them ) for which he obliged himself to allow any such Minister 50 l. per Annum , besides all other fitting Accommodations whatsoever ; yet was this Proposal slighted by them , and laughed at by his said Wife , even in the presence of their Lordships . And since that time Mr. Ivie having sued those ( who received her , and denyed her unto him ) and obtained by just proceedings in Law , a Judgment and Execution against such Persons , the Lords Commissioners have notwithstanding granted their Injunction for their Protection . Insomuch , that they have now effected an absolute Separation ; which is contrary to the Law of the Nation , and the Act of Parliament for Alimony it self ; which was declared by my Lord Chief Justice Roles upon Reading the Decree for Alimony . FINIS . Notes, typically marginal, from the original text Notes for div A40860-e72140 27 Iuly , 10 Eliz . 1568. Note . 12 Oct. 24 Eliz . 1582. Note . Note . 34 & 35 Eliz. Trin. 43 Eliz. 1601. Hill. 9 Iac. 1611. 5 Aug. 13 Iac. 1615. 14 Aug. 1647. Trin. Term. 1656. 15 Iuly 1656. 5 Ed. 6. 1551. 5 Eliz. 1563. Note . 13 Eliz. 1571. 18 Eliz. 1576. 20 Eliz. 1578. 23 Eliz. 1581. 26 Eliz. 1584. 1 Iac. 1603. 1616. 27 Nov. 25 Car. 2. 13 May , 26 C. 2. Easter-Term , 1686. 25 Eliz. 1583. 20 M. 3 Iac. 1604. 1616. 26 Mar. 1646. 28 Mar. 1646. 16 May 1646. 19 Mar. 1646. 24 Apr. 1649. 25 Apr. 1649. 2. Edw. 6. 23 March 5 Edw. 6. 12 Nov. 5 & 6 Phil. & Mar. 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 〈…〉 6 Novemb. 13 Nov. 1 Novemb. 1613. 8 Septemb. 1619. 5 August . 1620.