Two seasonable discourses concerning this present Parliament Shaftesbury, Anthony Ashley Cooper, Earl of, 1621-1683. 1675 Approx. 25 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 8 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2005-12 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A59484 Wing S2906 ESTC R22903 12622718 ocm 12622718 64567 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A59484) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 64567) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 334:10) Two seasonable discourses concerning this present Parliament Shaftesbury, Anthony Ashley Cooper, Earl of, 1621-1683. [2], 10, [2], 7 p. s.n.], Oxford [i.e. Amsterdam? : 1675. Attributed to Anthony Shaftesbury. Cf. Halkett & Laing (2nd ed.); BM. "... not Oxford printing, but either of London or Amsterdam, probably the latter"--Madan 3054. The first discourse has caption title "The debate or arguments for dissolving this present Parliament ... November the 20th, 1675"; the second, with separate paging, has divisional t.p. "A letter from a Parliament man to his friend". Reproduction of original in British Library. Imperfect: second discourse lacking on film. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng England and Wales. -- Parliament. 2005-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2005-03 SPi Global Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-04 Simon Charles Sampled and proofread 2005-04 Simon Charles Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion TWO SEASONABLE DISCOURSES Concerning this present Parliament . OXFORD , Printed in the Year , 1675. The Debate or Arguments for Dissolving this present Parliament , and the calling frequent and new Parliaments . As they were delivered in the House of Lords , November the 20th . 1675. THat it is according to the Constitution of the Government , the ancient Laws and Statutes of this Realm , that there should be frequent and new Parliaments , and the practice of all Ages , till this last , hath been accordingly ; Parliaments , both long before and after the Conquest , were held three times a year , viz. Easter , Whitsontide , and Christmas , during the space of Eight Days for each time , and so continued with some variations , as to the times of Calling , and length of Holding ; but always very short untill the Reign of Ed. 3. in the fourth year of whose Reign there was a Law made , That Parliaments should be holden every year once , or more often , and how this Law is to be understood , whether of a New Parliament every Year , or calling the Old , is most manifest , by the practice , not onely of all the Ages before , but of some Hundred of Years since that Law : Prorogations or Long Adjournments , being a thing neve● heard of untill latter Years . And it is most unreasonable , that any particular number of Men should for many Years ingross so great a Trust of the People , as to be their Representatives in the House of Commons ; And that all other the Gentry ; and the Members of Corporations of the same Degree and Quality with them , should be so long excluded . Neither is it agreeable with the nature of Representatives to be continued for so long a time ; and those that choose them , not to be allowed frequent opportunity of changing the hands ; in which they are obliged to put so great a trust . The mutual correspondence and Interests of those who choose and are chosen , admitting of great variations in length of time . How many in this present House of Commons are there , whose business and acquaintance has not given them the occasion of the correspondence of one Letter , ( for these many Years ) with any Person of those places for whom they serve ? How many may there be in future Parliaments , if continued as long as This , that may be Protestants when they are chosen , and yet may come in so many Years justly to be suspected to have changed their Religion ? Nay , How many in this present Parliament are there , who were chosen by the People when they were of the same adequate Interest with them , and in length of time , by the Favour and Goodness of the Prince , and their own great Merits , are become Officers in the Court , and about the Revenue ? This is not spoken to reflect on them , for many of them have behaved themselves very worthy of those places ; but yet themselves cannot say , that they are equally as free to act for those that choose them , as they were before : Nor are they of the same Interest , as when they were chosen ; for now they gain , and have the advantage by the Peoples payments : And if they should say , They are the same Men they were , we may call their Fellow Members that have sate with them to Witness , whether the Proverb be not true , that Honores mutant mores , whether they have the same Opinion , and the same Freedom , they had before . Nay , may it not be said without offence , that even in this House of Commons , there are not a few , who , when they were chosen , were lookt upon as Men of Estates ; and are either since grown or discovered to be of that indigent condition , that they are much fitter to receive the publick maintenance , then give the publick money ; and it may be charitably supposed , that those Gentlemen are so modest , as to be willing to lay down , if they could , the publick Trust. But 't is most certain , that those places they serve for , would not be willing to continue them in it . There is no question , but 't is the Kings undisputed Prerogative to call and end Parliaments when he please , and no man , nor number of men can limit him a time ; but the greatest Prince cannot avoid the being limited by the nature of things ; Representatives of the People are necessary to the making Laws , and there is a time when it is morally demonstrable , that men cease to be Representatives , there being Circumstances and Proprieties that distinguish every thing , as well as Person in the World : So that to conclude this head , We Owe the Prince the observance of his time and place both for calling and duration of Parliaments , and the Prince owes us , not onely the frequencies of Parliaments , but that our Representations should be preserv'd to us in them . And further , if you consider the constitution of our Government , where the King as Head ( from whom all the vital and animal Spirits are diffused through the Body ) has the care of all , whose Interest is to seek the welfare of the whole ; all being his , the strength of the Nation being his strength , the riches his riches , the glory and honour , his glory and honour , and so on the contrary ; But least passion mistake flattery , or the ill designs of those about the Prince , should make him grow cross to his Real , and follow a destructive imaginary Interest : There is an Estate of Hereditary Nobility , who are by Birth-right the Councellors of the Kingdom , and whose Interest and Business it is , to keep the Ballance of the Government steady , that the Favourites and great Officers , exceed not their bounds , and oppress the People , that Justice be duely Administred , and that all parts of the Government be preserved entire ; Yet even These may grow insolent ( a Disease Greatness is liable to ) or may by Offices , Dependencies , hopes of Preferment , and other accidents , become , as to the major part of them , rather the obsequious flatterers of the Court , then true supporters of the publck and English Interest , and therefore the Excellence of our Government , affords us another Estate of Men , which are the Representatives of the Free-holders , Cities , principal Burroughs , and Corporations of England , who by the Old Law , were to be new chosen once a year , if not oftner , so that they perfectly gave the sence of those that chose them , and were the same thing as if those were present that chose , they so newly coming from them , and so quickly returning to give an account of their Fidelity , under the penalty of shame , and no further Trust. Thus you have in our English Government , the House of Commons affording the Sence , the Mind , the Information , the Complaints , the Grievances , and the desires of all those People for whom they serve , throughout the whole Nation . The People are thus secure , no Laws can be made , nor Money given , but what themselves , though at home , fully consent and agree to . The Second Estate in this Government , is the Lords , who are the Councill , the Wisdom , and Judgement of the Nation , to which their Birth , Education , and constant imployment , being the same in every Parliament , prepares and fits them . The last , and supream of all , is the King , One who gives Life and Vigour to the proceedings of the other Two ; The Will and Desires of the People , though approved by the Wisdom and Judgment of the Lords , are Abortive , unless he bids them be an Act. Humane reason can hardly contrive a more excellent Government : But if you will alter this Government , in any of the Three Parts of it , the disorders and Inconveniencies incident to the nature of such alteration , must necessarily follow ; As for instance , the long continuance of any such as are entrusted for others , especially of such as have so great a power over the Purse of the Nation , must necessarily produce Caballs , and Parties , and the carrying on of private Interests and Court-Factions , rather then the publick good , or the true Interest either of the King or Kingdom . How vastly is the priviledge of a Parliament man encreased since the middle of the Reign of H. 8. ? Before , it was several times agreed by all the Judges , and observed as the Law , That a Member and his Servants , were exempted onely from Arrests and Outwlaries , but might be impleaded , sued , and Attached by his Land and Goods ; yet now they must not be sued in any Case , nor dispossessed of any thing during the time of Priviledge ; nay , these two last Sessions the Priviledg must extend to exempt them even from the Judicature of Parliament it self : As also before the same King's Reign the House of Commons never thought of Judicature , as being in the nature of their Constitution uncapable of it ; But since they are not only become Judges of their own Priviledges , condemning and imprisoning their fellow - Subjects at pleasure , and without an Oath , and also Judges of all Elections , by which very often they , and not the places , chuse their fellow-members : But now 't is come to that , that the House of Commons pass sentence on the Lords proceedings , make new crimes , and add Preinstruments to them by their own Authority ; If you will ask the reason of this change , 't is plain that Parliaments began in Hen. 8's time to be longer than they ought , That Prince knowing that long Parliaments were fitted to make great Changes , they have been too frequent since , but never of that length as this ; Besides all this , the long continuance of Representatives renders them liable to be corrupted and won off from the Publique-Interest ; it gives them time to settle their Cabals and Interest at Court , and takes away the great Security the Nation has ; that if it be possible to happen that the Spiritual Lords because of their great dependence on the Crown , the Popish Lords being under the pressure of so severe Laws , together with the Court Lords and great Officers should in any future Age make up a greater number of the House of Lords , and should pass things very prejudicial to the Publick , yet all should prove ineffectual , and the Nation remain safe in an House of Commons lately chosen that have not had time to learn new Sentiments , or to put off their old Principles at a good Market . How great has been the modesty of this present House of Commons , that having had the Purse of the Nation thus long in their hands , as being those that first begun the Grants of Subsidies and Aids to the King , and so by consequence have all the Addresses made to them , when ever the wants of the Crown ( which in this active Age are very often ) require it , that they have not made use of it to the prejudice of the Publick , or to their own advantage ; It was a very high Temptation , and might easily have rendered them in their own Opinion more than Lords , and they are rather to be commended that they insisted on no higher Terms with the Lords House , than wondered at for what they did ; Considering the matter , ground , and the circumstances wherein they stood , and yet they were certainly mistaken , and not a little forgot themselves , when they would not allow the Lords House a power of lessening the Summs in any Bill of Subsidie or Aid that they had once set ; which was not only directly contrary to the Interest of the People that chose them , but against the ancient and express Rule and Custom of Parliament , whereby it is clear if the Commons grant five Subsidies , and the Lords agree but to four , that Bill of Subsidie need not be sent down to the Commons for their consent to such an alteration . And they certainly were grown very high in their own Opinion , and had a very low esteem for the Lords , when they neglected the safety of their best Friends in that House , and did almost with scorn refuse the passing of the Bill for the more fair and equal Tryal of Peers , which in several Sessions was sent down to them . How great were the apprehensions of all sober and wise Men at every meeting of this present Parliament during these late years , and how much is to be ascribed to the goodness of our Prince , and to the vertue of the Members of this present House of Commons , that Honours , Offices , Pensions , Money , Imployments and Gifts had not been bestowed and accepted , and the Government , as in France , Denmark and other Countries , made absolute and at the will of the Prince ? How easie this may be done in future Ages under such Princes , and such an House of Commons as may happen , if long and continued Parliaments be allowed for Law , may be made some measure of by this , where though the Prince had no design , and the Members of the House of Commons have shewed so great Candor and Self-denial , yet the best Observers are apt to think that we owe it to the strong and opposite Factions at Court , that many things of great Alterations have not passed . And moreover , it cannot be passed over with silence , nor considered without great thoughts of heart , to what a price a Member of the House of Commons place is come ; In former times when Parliaments were short and frequent , The Members constantly received their wages both of their Counties and Burroughs ; many of the poorer Burroughs petitioned to be excused from sending Members , as not being able to bear their charge ; and were so : Laws were made in favour of the Gentry , that Corporations should compel none but their Freemen of their own Town to serve for them ; Nay you shall find in all the ancient Returns of Writs for Knights of the Shires , their Sureties for their appearance returned with them : But now the case is altered , 1500 l. and 2000 l. and lately 7000 l. is a price Men pay to be intrusted : 'T is to be hoped the Charity of those worthy Persons , and their Zeal for the Publique Interest has induced them to be at this Expence ; But it were better to be otherwise , and there is a scurvy English Proverb , That Men that buy dear , cannot live by selling cheap . And besides all these , the very priviledge of the Members , and of those they protect in a Parliament of so long duration , is a pressure that the Nation cannot well support it self under ; So many thousand Suits of Law stopt , so vast a Sum of Money withheld from the right owners , so great a quantity of Land unjustly possessed , and in many Cases the length of time securing the possession , and creating a Title ; And 't is an Observation not unworthy the making , that all this extent of Priviledge beyond its due bounds has first risen from the Members of the House of Commons ; That House to this day pretends to forty days priviledge before and after Parliament , the House of Lords but twenty , and yet the priviledge of Parliament is the same to both : and if the House of Commons obtain their forty days to become Law and Custom , the Lords will certainly enjoy the same priviledge ; But the cure of this Evil is very easy in frequent and short Parliaments , The Members will affect no larger priviledges than are necessary and useful to them , for such as oppress and injure others cannot expect a second choice , and the present time is but short . To all this there are two Objections that make a great sound , but have really nothing of weight in them ; The first Objection is , That the Crown is in danger if you call a new Parliament . If those men be in earnest that urge this , it were to be wished they would consider well what are the Men are likely to be chosen , and they are not difficult to be guest at through the whole Kingdom , Men of Quality , of Estates , and of the best Vnderstanding ; Such will never affect change , or disturb the Kings Government : A New Parliament will be the Nation , and that will never stick at small matters to render themselves acceptable to their Prince . Would the King have acquaintance with his People ? This is his way . Would he have yet more the love of his People ? Thus he is sure to have it . Would the King have a considerable sum of Money to pay his Debts and put him at ease ? Thus he cannot fail of it , nay he shall have it as a pledge of endearment between him and his people , they give it themselves , and they know the King receives it as from them . The English Nation are a generous people , and have at all times exprest themselves ready to supply even the Humours , and Excesses of their Princes , and some of the best beloved Princes we have had were such as by Warr , or otherwise put us to most Expence : Witness Edward the 1st , Edward the 3d , and Henry the 5th ; but then always they were satisfied that the Honour of the Nation was preserved , and what ever private or personal Excesses the Prince had , yet the Nation was secure , there was no design upon them , neither should their money or their strength be used against them ; All this is the happiness of our present state under our most gracious King. But how shall the People know and be secure it is so ? but by those they annually send up to Parliament from amongst themselves ; Whereas if the King should have a great Sum of Money given by this Parliament , it would be lookt upon as theirs , not as the Peoples gift , and the best of Men with their Circumstances cannot avoid the suspition , when they give much to have received some ; and men will not so chearfully undergo the Burthen of a Tax , and their own Wants in the time of this general Poverty , when they apprehend others have the Thanks , and perhaps the Reward of their Sufferings . The second Objection is with great apprehensions and passion urged by the Bishops ; That the Church and this Parliament fall together . Which Objection how vain it is you will easily confess , if ( as was said before ) the persons that are like to be chosen be considered ; The dissenting Protestants may very probably find more favour and ease , but the Church can never suffer , either in her Lands or Dignities she now enjoys , by an House of Commons consisting of Men of the best Quality and Estates in England , as the next certainly will do : But , on the other side , what do the Bishops mean by this Assertion ? most certainly it is not their intent to make the Interest of the Church and the Nation direct opposit and inconsistent one with the other ; and yet in saying this they confess , that this House of Commons are not the true Representatives of those they serve for ; that the People and they are of different minds ; that if they were to choose again , they would choose other men of other sentiments ; And it must be confessed that what ever is not natural is by force , and must be maintained by force . A standing Parliament and a standing Army are like those Twins that have their lower parts united , and are divided only above the Navel ; they were born together , and cannot long outlive each other . Certainly that man is no friend to the Church that wishes it a third incorporated with those two . To conclude this Debate , the continuance of this present Parliament any longer is unpracticable ; the breach this House of Commons has made upon the Lords is as unlikely to be repaired with these present Men , as it is to be renewed by another House of Commons of a new Election ; If you consider the Power , the Courtship , and the Addresses that these Men have for so many years enjoyed and received , they may almost be forgiven if they think themselves greater Men than the Lords in the higher House ; besides it is very well known that many of the ablest and most worthy Patriots amongst them have carried this Difference to the greatest height with this only design , that by this means they might deliver the Nation from the danger and pressure of a long continued Parliament : Whereas a new chosen House of Commons , especially if it were fixt , and known that it could not remain long , could not be apprehended to have any affectation to exceed their just bounds , nor to renew a Contest , where the Interest of the People is manifestly on the Lords side ; for besides the undoubted Right and constant Practice that the Lords enjoy in the Case of Appeals from Courts of Equity , all other Expedients when well considered , give the Crown , the Favourites and Ministers the power over every mans Estate in England . Thus you see 't is the Interest of all sorts of men to have a New Parliament ; This will give the King constant and never-failing Supplies with the hearts and good-will of his People : This will not only preserve the Church in the Honours , Dignities and Revenues she now enjoys , and make her the Protectrix and Asylum of all the Protestants through Europe , but will also encrease the Maintenance of the Ministry in Corporations and great Towns , which is now much wanting , and of great concern to the Church . This will procure the dissenting Protestants Ease , Liberty , and Protection : The Papists may justly expect by this to be delivered from that grievous pressure of penal Laws they lie under , if they can be contented with being deprived of access to Court ; bearing Offices or Arms : The great Officers and Ministers may under this enjoy their places undisturbed and in quiet , and be secure with a moderate Conduct , and reasonable Condescentions to attain that in a new Parliament which they have by experience found is impossible in the old . In a word , there is not to be imagined an Interest against this , unless there be an inveterate party still remaining in our World , who to compass their Revenge , and repair their broken Fortunes , would hope to see the Act of Oblivion set aside , and this happy Monarchy turned into an absolute , Arbitrary , Military Government ; But Charity bids us hope there are no such Men.