The Petition of the most substantiall inhabitants of the citty of London, and the liberties thereof, to the Lords and Commons for peace together with the answer to the same, and the replye of the petitioners. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A32848 of text R383 in the English Short Title Catalog (Wing C3881). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 45 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2017 A32848 Wing C3881 ESTC R383 12952474 ocm 12952474 95975 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A32848) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 95975) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 733:23) The Petition of the most substantiall inhabitants of the citty of London, and the liberties thereof, to the Lords and Commons for peace together with the answer to the same, and the replye of the petitioners. Chillingworth, William, 1602-1644. Reply of the London petitioners to the late answer to their petition for peace. England and Wales. Parliament. [2], 20 p. Printed for Edward Husband, London : 1642. The reply of the petitioners, according to Thomason, is by William Chillingworth. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. eng London (England) -- History -- 17th century -- Sources. Great Britain -- History -- Civil War, 1642-1649 -- Sources. A32848 R383 (Wing C3881). civilwar no The petition of the most substantiall inhabitants of the citty of London, and the liberties thereof, to the Lords and Commons for peace· Tog [no entry] 1643 8662 12 0 0 0 0 0 14 C The rate of 14 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the C category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2003-05 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2003-06 Aptara Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2003-07 Mona Logarbo Sampled and proofread 2003-07 Mona Logarbo Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-08 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE PETITION OF THE MOST SUBSTANTIALL INHABITANTS OF the Citty of London , and the Liberties thereof , TO THE LORDS and COMMONS FOR PEACE ▪ Together with the Answer to the same . AND The REPLYE of the Petitioners . LONDON , Printed for EDWARD HUSBAND , Anno Dom. 1642. TO THE RIGHT HONOVRABLE THE LORDS and COMMONS now assembled in the High Court of PARLIAMENT . The humble Petition of divers Inhabitants of the City of London , and the Liberties thereof . SHEWETH , THat the present sense of our miseries , and apprehension of inevitable ruine both of the Church and Common-wealth , make us to become humble suitors to this Honourable Assembly ( the likeliest means under God for our reliefe ) to consider our distressed estates , and to provide a speedy remedy for our present and future evills , earnestly desiring you to weigh the care and Iudgement of our Predecessors , who by a known Law , setled and preserved our Protestant Religion , our Liberties , and Properties , with a right understanding between King and Subjects , which produced peace and plenty in our Streets . And to reflect with serious thoughts upon our present distempers , violating Religion by Papists and Sectaries , engaging our Nation into a Civill , Bloody , and Distructive Warre , invading our Lawes and Liberties , endangering all our Lives , and utterly disinabling us to relieve our distressed brethren in Ireland : We beseech you likewise to consider the effects of cont●nued Wa●re , as the destruction of Christians , the unnaturall effusion of blood ; Fathers against Sonnes ▪ Brothers by Brothers , Friends by Friends slaine ; then famine and sicknesse , the followers of civill Warre , making way for a generall confusion , and invasion by a forraigne Nation , while our Treasure is exhausted , our Trade lost , and the Kingdome dispeopled . These things weighed and enlarged by your wisdomes , we doubt not will be strong motives in us to desire a speedy Peace , and a happy Accommodation . Wherefore we humbly crave , that ( not lending an eare to any fomenters of these present Warres , under what pretence soever , nor remembring ought that may increase Iealousies , or continue divisions between his Majesty and his Houses of Parliament ) you will speedily tender His Majesty ( according to His Royall intimations ) such Propositions for Accommodation , as He may with Honour and Safety to the whole Kingdome accept . For effecting whereof , we shall be ready to assist you with the best and utmost of our abilities , and whilest you endeavour Peace , we shall send up our Prayers to Heaven for the blessing of peace upon you , and all those that desire it . An Answer to the London PETITION . You Gentlemen and Citizens , BOth you and your request are welcome to Vs , and cannot faile of a kind reception here , where your former merits , and your present good intentions are so well knowne . It is naturall in the Patient to seeke cure of his disease , and to move the Phisitian to use his best skill , and it is commendable in you under your sufferings to apply your selves to Vs for ease ; and we hope it is not meere impatience urges you to seeke things impossible , or unjust : your prayers for Peace are Honourable , so was Iacobs wife for children , yet when she cryed , give me children or I dye , she was to blame ▪ for she sought that of Iacob , which Iacob had no power to give , and she sought the same with such violence , as Iacob ought not to have heard . But we will only conceive , that without all impatience , you seeke of us Peace , so farre as we can procure it , and not absolutely , for it depends not so much upon us , as the King , and it is not in us to draw the King to a Peace , except His Majesty be as inclinable to it , as we are . And we will conceive also that you seeke not Peace nakedly , except it come along with Truth , Righteousnesse , and Honour , and of such a Peace we are as zealous as you can wish us to be ; and for other Peace , if we should wholly submit to the Kings party , without all conditions for future security , such a submission to that Party would be no redresse but an increase of your present sufferings . We are intrusted in this by the whole Kingdome , and that trust we must not breake upon the solicitation of any part of the Kingdome : you are a considerable part of London , but you are not whole London , and London is a considerable part of this Kingdome , but it is not the whole Kingdome , and we , according to our trust , must looke upon the whole Kingdome : but it may be , that you see more than the whole Kingdome , and may out of that sight offer some thing to us for the ease and reliefe of the whole Kingdome ; in this we will not gaine-say you , it is possible that some cleere way & forme of a just , safe , and honourable Accommodation may be opened , and discovered to you , which hath not yet been found out by us ; if this be so , we desire you cordially , and in a friendly manner to communicate your apprehensions , and understandings of this affaire to us , and by our sudden and full embracement thereof , you shall soon find how deere , and precious the face , the very name or sound of Peace is to us : in the meane time we desire you to rest assured , that if there be any defect in us , it must needs be in point of understanding , it cannot be in point of affection . No men living can be in affection more devoted to safe Peace then we are . And further , we desire you not to censure us of any defect at all , no , not so much as in understanding , except you can reveal to us some better way , then we have hitherto assayed . No Accommodation can be , but we must leave something to the King upon trust , and if the Accommodation be even , the King will not deny some trust to us ; but in this , helpe to advise us how farre we shall trust the King , and how farr we shall trust the Kings party ; were the King utterly disingaged from all parties , perhaps we would wholly trust the King , and desire no trust at all to be left in us from His Majesty : but we see in the Kings party , some that have a strange power in His affection , yea a greater power farre than we have , and yet they are knowne to be deeply inraged Papists , violently ingaged Delinquents , and if you would wholly put your selves and the Kingdome into the trust of such a party , we are bound to withstand it , as much as we can . The King protests to hate Popery , and disavowes all thoughts of Arbitrary Rule , yet we know all , how farre He is addicted to Papists , and malignant haters of Parliaments : and since we cannot submit to the King , but we must submit to His Party , who He preferres before us , what advantage is it to us , whether He be in heart the selfe same , as His party is , or not ? The truth is , we and the Kings party are so diametrically opposite in Religion and State both , that he cannot protect both , if they are His friends , we are his enemies ; if we are his friends , they are questionlesse his enemies ; if he shield them from our justice , he must expose us to their injustice ; either they must judge us , or we them , no middle way can be safe , nor deserve the name of Accommodation ; it must prove inevitable confusion in the end . Many yeares we have already strugled together , and they have all the while found more favour from the Court then we ; but now we are more implacably exasperated by blood , one against the other , and they will not lay downe Armes before us ; nor ought we before them ; and if both lay downe Armes together , yet little safety will be to us ; for our religion and profession will binde us truly to performe , but theirs will bind them to betray us ; and since they are greater in the Kings favour , and are loose from Oaths , when we are discountenanced , and our hands are tyed from defence , what equality of Treaty is there ? We will speake now to you , as we would to the whole body of England ; if you prefer their cause and being before ours , speake it out more plainly : if you wish better to us , and thinke better of us , be wary of such Accommodation , as may render us upon unequall tearmes into their hands . You will say we have received other Petitions with more favour , when they have more concurred with us in their Votes , we confesse and justifie it : for when the people have encouraged us by Petitions , answering to our Votes , and have invited us to be more hardy in searching their wounds , fearing our too much tendernesse in their owne case , we could not but resent a better disposition and capacity of cure , then now we take notice of in such contrary Petitions , as seeme to expresse a distrust of us , though indeed your professions be cleane contrary . Yet to deale plainly with you , and all other Petitioners : we love not to be sollicited at all by the people in any case whatsoever , except when we doe manifestly faile of our Duty , either out of too much feare , or too much presumption . Howsoever for the present goe peaceably home , and if you thinke us worthy of that trust which you have hitherto reposed in us , leave to us to consider of this your Petition with all its circumstances , and assure your selves , we will condescend to the more hazzard , and depart something the more from our owne due in our demands from His Majesty , for your sakes . And if you prefer your owne Iudgements before ours , proceed to advertise us lovingly and fairely , wherein we may doe you more good , or how we may draw nearer to a prudent Accommodation , and impart more particularly your open sence thereof . Howsoever we desire you to addresse your selves to His Majesty , in the same manner as you have done to us , unlesse you condemne us as more indisposed to peace then His Majesty is ; and let your request be , that in this valuation of His Party , and His Parliament , He would be equally pleased to condescend , and depart from His former rigor of Tearmes , as you expect from us , or else we must pronounce you in this unequall . And for the summe of all , let your desired Accommodation be such , as shall maintaine us to be the Kings legall Parliament , and a legall Parliament to be the Kings highest Court of Iudicature , and the highest Iudicature of the King fittest to determine all publike disputes , and best disposed to mercy , as well justice ; and policy , as well as Law : and without more adoe your wished Accommodation is perfected , and agreed upon . The REPLY of the London Petitioners to the late Answer to their PETITION . WEE perceive , those Arts which first caused , are the fittest means to continue this common calamity . If the People ( of honest affections generally , but weak reason , and so easily abused , and made to advance private ends with a publique conscience , ) yet at last faithfully instructed by the sense of miseries , begin to grow wiser , the great contrivers of these sad divisions , evidently discerne , the Kingdom is in danger to be restored to happinesse , unlesse their long exercised malice , can still prevaile under specious pretences , to keep up that unfortunate misunderstanding between King and Subject . No sooner had we , being the most considerable persons in the Citty ( after too long patience , and a most just apprehension of pressures howrely growing upon us , so that of late , every new Vote hath been looked upon as a new affliction , ) taken such courage to our selves , as humbly to expresse our unwillingnesse to be longer active in our own unhappinesse , and to sue unto you for remedy , being desirous to receive those great blessings of Peace and Plenty , and true Religion established by Law , from no other hand : but presently under-agents are imployed to continue ( if it be possible ) the distractions of this Kingdom , and stifle our honest intentions in the womb . Alderman Penington seizes upon our Petition , and commits one to Prison , ( because it seems he was better affected to the quiet of his Country , then was convenient for his ends , ) notwithstanding not any thing in the matter of it , was against any known law , and the manner of it had been so often countenanced by both your Houses . Out of these considerations , we the Citizens animated by innocency , and a necessary care to prevent our otherwise unavoidable destruction , with sober courage , and honest stoutnesse recover our Petition . Next the Lecturers undertake the work , and turne all the spirituall militia into weapons of the flesh , exhorting us to fight against the King in the feare of God , and under the mask of Religion preaching down peace and holinesse . Yet these virulent declamations prevaile not with us , who were more conscionably instructed , then to believe , we cannot expresse our love to God , unlesse we maintain enmity with men ; and who by sad experience have found the bitter fruits of their so much cryed-up reformation ; wherein the sonnes of peace are become the loudest Trumpets of Warre . This policy being now worn out , and the journey-men-Rebells at a stand , it concernes the maisters to take the ruine of the Common-wealth into their own managery . An answer is cast out , which seems to carry in it the authority of the House , but presents really the subtilty of those , who have hitherto craftily abused the Peoples affections into those miserable distempers . Their words are softer then oyle , but poyson of Aspes is under their lips ; for the designe of it is by a seeming meek complyance with us , who from our soules desire and sue for peace , to send us away , contented to ingage our selves in a most unnaturall Warre . It is full of Sophistry , and such eloquence , as is described in Catiline , ( the fire-brand of his Country ) which was first to disturbe a state , unable to compose and settle it . We and our request is said to be Welcome . Certainly both ought to be so really , and deserve to be entertained with the greatest thanks and alacrity by all honest men , as aiming at the publique interest , and common good of the Kingdome . What ever Astronomers faine of the Celestiall bodies , 't is to be feared , many inferior Orbes in a State have particular contrary motions to that of the whole . If a kind reception were truly meant , what can be the cause , we should meet with such opposition , such difficulties in the accesse ? It requires no deep understanding to look through the matter : it costs nothing to give good words , and you manage this affaire very prudently , if instead of a grant , you can satisfy us with a complement . But your Petitioners are wiser , then to desist upon empty Courtship , when our suit is of so high concernment , as the Kingdoms preservation . It is commendable in us , to come as patients to their Phisition . ] What doe they deserve then , who hinder us from seeking a remedy for our distempers ? He who forces sicknesse upon us , may thereby hasten his own death . We must not out of impatience seek things impossible , or unjust . ] Our request is neither vaine , nor wicked ; it desires both what can , and what ought to be done . It is very easily effected : if you withdraw the fuell , a fire is soon extinguished ; so if you , I doe not say , correct , but even not foment ill humors , the Wound will heale of it selfe . The Subject is in so ready a way of recovery , doe but apply the Great Charter , and the Petition of Right , and he is restored to Health and Strength ; that is , take not our estates from us by force , and without our Consent , and we aske not Peace , ingage the Kingdom in Warre if you can . We expect not Physick from you , only prescribe us a good dyet , that is , let us live by certain and known rules , and we shall not want letting blood . If Peace be to be compassed by these means , the desire of it cannot be unjust . Your Prayers for Peace are Honourable , so was Iacob's wife for Children , yet when she cried , give me Children , or I dye , she was to blame , for she sought that of Iacob , which Iacob had not power to give . ] There is great difference between Rachells impatience , and our humble request , addrest to you as the fittest means under God to convay unto us the fruits ( not of the womb , but ) of good Government , Peace and Plenty . That we live , it is the bounty of God , that we are destroyed , may be the fault of men . We desire no more , then what good Patriots may , and ought to performe , that you would be pleased , not to neglect those means , which most probably will conduce to the Kingdoms preservation . And she sought the same with such violence , as Iacob ought not to have heard . ] There was not any thing in our addresses , which could make this observation pertinent . But the doctrine is so reasonable , we could wish , you had declared it sooner , as being forced to take notice , the contrary position was once taught , and made the rule of former actions ; That some things must be done to satisfy the People . We cannot be ignorant of the many tumults , dismissed with thanks , though they ( as Iacob with God ) did even wrestle with you for blessings . This cleare opening your selves against violent Petitioners , will satisfy the world in the innocency of those Members , who absented themselves from the House out of this consideration . Peace depends not so much on us , as the King , and it is not in us to draw the King to a peace : ] We humbly desire you not to be wanting in your duty ; and we have had frequent testimonies of His Majesties peaceable inclinations . His withdrawing His forces from our City , after great advantages , clearely demonstrates , He came up to London with an army , not so much to fight , as to appeare in such a condition , as you might without losse of Honour consent to a peace . We must remember with what cheerfulnesse He entertained the Messengers of peace at Colebrook , how gratious a Reply He returned to the Message , without any mention of former unkindnesses , and such indignities , as private men could hardly have digested . After this , though provoked with new injuries , and most unreasonable imputations of breach of Faith , and delight in bloud ; as if He were only sensible of our misery , He seeks to continue the Treaty by a message from Reading , ending with the same gratious close as that from Colebrook . This as yet hath not been thought worthy any answer . We will conceive also that you seek not Peace nakedly , except it come along with truth , righteousnesse and Honour . With truth ; ] we readily embrace this limitation , as being perswaded the breach of peace in the Church , by Sectaries unpunished , we wish , we could not say countenanced and encouraged , hath begot and nourisht Warre in the State . Therefore to deale plainly , if you mean by truth the Protestant Religion established by Law , ( to which you know His Majesty conformes in constant practice even beyond the strictnesse of most Subjects , ) let the Penalties by Act of Parliament appointed be indispensably exacted from all offendors : If you mean some of your own private opinions , speak them out clearely , and I doubt not but the Kingdom will entertaine peace , without that which you call truth . With righteousnesse , with Honour . ] It is very obvious , how Peace and Righteousnesse may kisse each other , but how without forfeiture of this , any can take up Armes against their Soveraigne , ( to whom they have sworn allegiance ) we cannot comprehend . It is no diminution of your honour to provide for the Kings , ( as you are obliged by oath ) and to yeeld Him all those rights , with which the Law hath invested Him . These are no hard conditions : If you like them , you will have no reason to prolong our miseries by civill dissentions ; if they displease , confesse it roundly , and we are confident , we shall have no long warre . If we should wholly submit to the Kings party , without all conditions of future security . ] You are required to submit to the King , not to any of your fellow Subjects . There cannot be greater security , then the Lawes of the Land , ( and such only your Ancestors claimed ) the benefit of which you shall enjoy , and by which only you are to be tryed . If you challenge security of any higher nature , and think not your selves safe , till you have all the power in your selves , we make no doubt all well-affected People will cleerely discerne , this is nothing else , but under the name of free Subjects , to take upon you the Power of Kings . We humbly desire you to informe us plainly , what provisions you will have made for your safety , and to open your selves in this point , whether there can be any possible security in Monarchy . Vnder this forme much must of necessity be committed to the trust of one . If therefore you will not entertain peace , as being unsafe to you , because there is a possibility this one may faile in performance of trust , you clearly tell us , this Kingdome shall not be quiet , till you have changed this ancient , and well founded Monarchy into a popular State , and till the supream disposall of all is placed in you . By this the people will understand at last what it is they fight for . We are intrusted in this by the whole Kingdome . ] This must be meant of the House of Commons , and by the same Logicke that the King is denyed His Rights , the Lords may loose theirs , and this might breed an under-civill Warre betweene Your two Houses . The trust committed to you by the people , who are the third estate , cannot give any power , to entrench upon the other two , or either of them . The performance of this trust is to be regulated according to the Lawes , so that if You doe any thing against Law , you are accomptable for such actions , and the people is no way concerned in it , as having no legall authority in such a case . It is not possible , the People should give unto you , what they had not in themselves , a Priviledge to breake the Lawes . You are but a part of London , and London but a part of the Kingdome . ] It is very true ; so the Porters were but a part , the women were but a part , and the beggers were but a part , all which had the happinesse to thinke as you did , and so deserved thankes for it . We challenge no greater Priviledge then was allowed to them , to present our desires ; to approve or disallow belongs unto you , according as the greatest reason shall direct . Yet thus much we shall take the boldnesse to say , though you chance to affect warre , you must give us leave , to love and pray for peace , and not to engage our Estates or Persons , ( for such right in this case the Law gives us ) if we conceive it an unreasonable warre ; for we shall be unwilling to contribute a part , only that we may bring the whole in danger . And it may be necessary to tell you , we are much the best part of London , and London much the most considerable part of the Kingdome , and we have great reason to presume , that the most to be valued in other parts also , will second our desire , though you perhaps may have different apprehensions of their affections . For indeed the causes of liking and disliking warre , are not the same in you , and the rest of the Kingdome . You sit in the midst of us encompassed with safety , whereas others are exposed to the hazard . Their Hay , their Corne , their Household-stuffe , their flocks of Sheep , and heards of Cattell , and Horses are subject to the plunder , which makes them disrellish those distractions . It is no marveile , if the active men amongst you find in warre a more pleasing tast , since they have put themselves into good preferment by severall commands , and the Kingdomes misery , is become their patrimony . So while their trade flourishes , they have no deep sense of the universall decay of ours in severall callings . We doe not much wonder , if men that stand upon the shore , delight in tempests , as often as the wrack is to be shared amongst them . But it may be that you see more then the whole Kingdome . ] This is a pretty kind of Rhetoricke , to endeavour to baffle our reason , by pressing on our modesty . We compare not with others , ( though we might tell you , in some things we that are standers by , might perhaps see more clearly , then you , who are playing your game : ) whether in this cause our understanding be weaker or not , it concernes not us to determine ; since this we know , we are bound to practise , according as that informes us in our duty , and that God ( however some undervalue the spilling of Christian blood ) will call us to a severe accompt ; and most miserable is he , who shall be found guilty of shedding the blood of his brethren unjustly . You shall soone find , how deare and precious the face , the very name or sound of Peace is to us . ] Many dayes are not passed over since the name would not be entertained with patience . You know who said , I like not dawbing ; and that other expression , I hate the name of Accommodation . Certainly it was lesse cunningly carryed . But it seemes , it was beleeved the people was irrecoverably mad , and that they would never be weary of misery ; or at least , that they were so much in your power , that he which should dare to mention Peace , should suffer the injuries of warre . This part would have beene better acted then : It would have given much more satisfaction , if you had embraced the name of Peace with all cheerfulnesse , and broken of the thing by perplexed disputes , and sending unreasonable propositions . Now it will be a worke of greater difficulty , to over-rule our understandings , since we have evident grounds to suspect your affections . We heartily wish , we may prove false Prophets , but we cannot command our feares ( which worke naturally , and make judgement of the future by what is past , ) from presaging , you will keep up the warre still , but in a more plausible way ; and under a seeming desire of Peace ( having perceived the disadvantage of your open error , ) use unfit meanes to effect it , by proposing unreasonable conditions , so hoping to avoyd the envy , and yet preserve to your selves the benefits of these divisions . The sense of the following discourse is this , No Accommodation can be , because something must be left to the King upon trust , and something to you . ] It will be very easie to assigne the bounds of these severall trusts . It is done to our hand ; for His Majesty requires no new trust to himselfe , nor will He deny an old trust to you ; the Lawes and Customes of this Land determine both . But He must not be trusted , because he is not utterly disingaged from all parties . Here is a plaine Declaration , what the issue is likely to be . As long as the King hath any power left , so long you will suspect his Faith , and the people must be miserable , so long as you please to be fearefull . Certainly , the meanest understanding can quickly apprehend this to be a most seditious principle , and all true lovers of their Country , will looke upon it as the seed-plot of Rebellion to all ages . For all men cannot be prefer'd , and pretences will never be wanting of a King's engagement to a party , as often as ambitious persons , who thinke they have equall deserts , find they have not equall preferment . Such men commonly , when they cannot attaine to great offices , in the discharge whereof , they promise to the people some extraordinary good , they out of indignation , manifest their abilities in hurting the State . You object to the King , He hath a party . Alas ! this is His unhappinesse , and your fault . He desires and ought to have the whole . But if you will obstinately persist in this lay-Schisme , and admit of no condition of Reconciliation , except He will remove those servants , which in His afflictions He hath found honest and faithfull to Him , and preferre you in their places , He hath small encouragement to bestow such favours , ( not yet deserved by you ) and cannot satisfie His conscience in such an ill requitall of their tryed Loyaltie . The next is a stale calumny against Papists and Delinquents . Though reason be not lesse concluding , because old and often repeated , yet slanders loose their credit by time , because most men can confute them by experience . His Majesty hath fully satisfied the world in this point ; and the most considering part even of the people , having long time in vaine expected proofes , are now growne more stayd in their beleef , then to be led away by a bare confidence , and boldnesse of defaming . Wee and the Kings party are so diametrically opposite in Religion and State , that He cannot protect both . ] The same justice may governe both , if you will returne from whence you are swerved , and submit to the common rule of Law , which ought to be the measure of our actions . We most earnestly beseech you , ( that we may not perish , while we are detained in generalls , ) you would be pleased to tell us , what Religion you would have . If the publike forme of worship , established already , and sealed with the bloud of many Martyrs herein can be no ground of difference ; they professe and practise it , and will become suitors to you , that you will severely punish all persons whatsoever that transgresse against it : If you meane some other Religion , ( as you doe , if there be any reall disagreement amongst us ) let us know what it is , perhaps the Kingdome will renounce their old faith , and like your Creed better . However , let not the people be blindly ingaged to fight against their King in defence of their owne , and His Religion , and to maintaine that , which He and they approve off , and only you dissent from . If they are His friends , we are His enemies ; if we are His friends , they are questionlesse His enemies . ] It becomes not us to decide , who are His friends , who His enemies , nor to publish our thoughts , which may perhaps be guided by that common notion , to fight for , or against ; to endeavour to preserve , or destroy . Friendship and enmity here are not to be taken for affections , but for a civill vertue orvice , and to be understood in a law notion . They only are to be esteemed His friends , who are obedient to Lawes ; & transgressors , His enemies . So that a King is enemy to none , as not punishing out of hatred , but justice . That some men have found more favour then others ▪ ( we may guesse at the cause of your discontents , by this frequent complaint ) can be no just ground to disturbe a State . The Kingdome will never be free from Rebellion , if Subjects may be allowed to give law to the Princes courtesies . Either they must judge us , or we them , no middle way can be safe . ] The tryall of this Land is well known , which is per judicium parium , by verdict of Pears , it being a way of proceeding equally indifferent to all ; where none have cause to feare wrested explications , or obscure consequences , verdicts being brought in , in capitall causes , according to evident and knowne law . We make no question all uninterested persons will quickly be satisfied in the present difference , in case of Treason , which can be the only sub●ect of this debate , ( and yet this seemes to be the maine ground of distance . ) For certainly our Lawes have provided for the tryall of it , and the House of Commons never heretofore challenging a power of judicature , and the Lords not using to censure any in this nature under the degree of Baron , therefore it undeniably appeares , they are to be referred to the ordinary tryall of the Kings Bench . They will not lay downe Armes before us , nor ought wee before them . ] Cleare satisfaction hath beene offered you by His Majesty in this point , that the Armes should be returned to those hands , in which they are by law intrusted . The King is invested with the sole power of trayning , arraying , and mustering , it being most consonant to reason , as well as grounded on law , that he which is bound to Protect , should be enabled to compasse that end . Little safety will be to us , for our Religion and our profession will bind us truly to performe , but theirs will bind them to betray us . ] Of all men living we should least have expected , you should make advantage of this argument ; the breach of Faith in your Souldiers being most infamously notorious . Witnesse Farneham Castle , where after hands shaken with two of your Captaines , and time given upon the reputation of Gentlemen and Souldiers , to draw up Propositions of surrender , the Commanders being retired , and the Souldiers forbid to shoot , you brooke in upon them against the lawes of Truce , tooke them all Prisoners and plundred them , not affording any benefit of the former agreement ▪ witnesse Winchester , where after composition set downe in writing , you against it , rob'd them , stript them and kill'd many in coole bloud , insomuch that some of your Commanders , more sensible of honour , openly exclaimed against your barbarous cruelty , scarce to be paralell'd amongst the storyes of Germany . witnesse Yorkeshire , where , after the Gentry had very prudently setled a peace and security in that County , by mutuall covenant not to injure each other , the Lord Fairefax is bitterly reproved for breaking your Priviledges , by presuming to agree to the happinesse of His Country , when the House , or rather the Committee had resolved to ingage the whole Kingdome in misery , and he is accordingly commanded not to regard his promise . The truth is , ( and you have declared it to the world in print ) that you might perswade him not to be honest , you tell him plainly he was not wise , and therefore injoyne him not to stand to that Covenant which was made with so much disadvantage : witnesse Mr Marshall , and Dr Downing . The King in extraordinary mercy pardoned and dismissed 300 prisoners ( though guilty of high Treason , and taken in actuall hostility against him , ) onely taking security ( at least as he then thought it was , having not yet learnt , that the Religion of that party , is not capable of laying any obligation against Interest ) for their future innocency by oath , they swearing , never after to beare Armes against His Majesty . These being returned are satisfied in conscience , they swore unlawfully , as binding themselves not to advance the good cause , and for this consideration , as also it being taken in their owne defence , their lives being endangered upon refusall , ( so that being now safe they were againe free ) they are formally absolv'd from their Oath by these two City Popes , and preached into new and perjurd Rebells . Good God that these men in so short time , should be guilty of so many publique violations of Faith , ( one of which , even amongst the ancient Heathen , would have stained an age , ) and yet that all the people are not yet undeceived ! It cannot be , but all such as have any sense of true piety ▪ will upon full information detest these foule proceedings , and abhorre that Religion , which is made but an Art to dispense with honesty . Certainly you cannot believe , that you Religion binds you truly to performe : men of such perswasions could not so grossely equivocate themselves into disloyalty , and raise an Army to desttroy their King in His own defence . If you preferre their cause and being before ours , speake it out more plain●y . ] We most humbly thank you , and shall ( if necessity require it ) make use of this freedom . The rule by which our liking will be guided , is this , we shall acquit that party , which doth not intrench upon Our Liberty , by imprisoning any of us without cause , and maintaining the Legality of it , and professing to measure it according to pleasure , so that , if they think it convenient to doe so , it shall be a crime to question it ; Our property , by taking our Estates from us without our consents ; our Religion , by committing our most painfull and conscientious Professors , and publique thwarting our long beleeved Preachers by new Sectaries , with great care and cunning planted in our severall Congregations . We love not to be sollicited by the People in what case soever , except when we doe manifestly faile in our duty . ] Your minds are much changed of late ▪ you did love it dearely . And such care hath been taken , to entertain you with this your delight , that , least good affections should not be able to shew themselves for want of understanding , ( as commonly your well meaning friends were defective in that part ) your sense hath been put into their papers , and you have lent them a head , that they might expresse their good hearts . It cannot be so sudainly forgotten , that when reason formerly hath gainsaid proposalls , the affections of the people have been judged the fittest measure of votes . Here is yet a possibility of failing by this confession , and so you have overthrown the strongest , and most popular argument of your innocence , the authority of the doer . If we , or any part of the Kingdome shall conceave you faile of duty to your Soveraigne , you have by this granted us full liberty to sollicite you when we think fitting . We desire you to addresse your selves to His Majesty , in the same manner as you have done to us , unlesse you condemne us , as more indisposed to peace then his Majesty is . ] We have had frequent evidences of His Majesties peaceable inclinations , in His many Messages continually by you rejected , and we have observed how long and how much he hath suffered formerly , that He might have prevented ( if malice could have been wearied ) this unnaturall Warre . We thought a Petition to Him for Peace not so seasonable , because He out of His detestation of the effusion of His Subjects blood , had Himselfe ( in His Message from Nottingham ) even sued to you for it . We extremely wonder , We should now be put upon this course , for which formerly you have punished others . It was then a crime to think of making any addresses to His Majesty , and the authors have suffered for it , before it was known what they meant to have desired . Concerning the matter of the Petition you would frame for us , ( that art hath formerly done good service , and must not now be forgotten ) that He would depart from his former rigor of termes , we must freely acknowledge , we have not yet met with any harsh proposalls from His Majesty , and we believe , if any such were , they would have been named , you not using to dissemble any advantages , nor to be over nice in respect to His Regall dignity . What ever conditions have come to our hands , seem as reasonable in sense , as mild in language . Notwithstanding he hath been frequently tempted to use harsher expressions , by that freedom you have taken of accusing him , in such words , as we should count it incivility to use towards our equalls . Too oft they were so below the respect due to a King , that they were unfit to be given to a Gentleman . Inbriefe , that you may not flatter your selves with an opinion , we shall easily be put off with generalities , which signity nothing , we shall take some paines in this businesse , which so highly concernes us , and with our utmost care , and all due respects , descend to particular Propositions , such as we according to our apprehensions shall conceave reasonable . And that we may ( as much as in us lies ) remove all those rubbs out of the way to an happy accommodation , which some with designe and study purposely cast in ; we shall for the present make one Proposition , which carries in it much equality , and ( if we mistake not ) will take off all exceptions , which seem to stand betwixt us and happinesse in this agreement : That is , that as His Majesty doth readily consent to all the rights , which belong to both Houses ; so you would with as much forwardnesse , grant what ever rights belong unto him : and that time may not be wasted in doubtfull disputes , while the Kingdome lies at stake , that you would make the Reigne of Queen ELIZABETH ( acknowledged by all to be happy and glorious ) the measure by which to determine them . This we conceive a more equall way , then for two of the Estates ( especially when the major part by fear of tumults and Armies is absent ) to judge by no rule but their own votes of the Rights of the third : to whom if it may be allowed to be sole arbitrary Iudges both of Iustice and Policy , both of what is due to you , and fit for you , both from King and Subjects , the accommodation that is left can only be this ; that , so you may have all that your selves desire , you are contented to endure peace , and such an one indeed you had hard hearts , if you would not accept . If this appeare more reasonable , we shall not need to trouble our selves with those involved conditions by you prescribed , the meaning whereof we doubt in some , the truth in others . That you are the Kings Legall Parliament . That the two Houses are distinct parts of the Parliament , we acknowledge , and the King never denied it . That you have not the power of the whole in right ( though it hath been executed upon us in fact ) you your selves must confesse , unlesse you will say , that you can make an Act of Parliament without the King . Wherein we desire you to declare your sense plainly . If you shall not pretend to this , we request the Subject may not suffer under illegall names , that is , that an Ordinance of either or both houses , may not have the vertue or power , since you will not justify the name of Law in it . That you are the Kings highest court of Iudicature . ] We conceive , the House of Commons , and much more the Committee , hath power of accusing only , not of judging ; This belongs to the House of Lords ( an appeale being made from an inferior Court , and writs of error being legally exhibited ) who are presumed to passe sentence according to the known Law , and not according to reason of State , Because this would place an arbitrary power in them , and enable them to overthrow ( the birth-right and inheritance of every English man ) our Lawes by Policy . Since there cannot be imagined a more absolute power , and government according to bare will , then to determine the same action right or wrong , as they shall please to call it necessary or convenient . That you are fittest to determine all publique disputes . ] If it be understood in relation to Lawes , the only allowed rules of decision , it is granted without any inconveniences . If you will maintain it in the largest sense , which the words may seem to beare , we are confident , the people will abhorre the Doctrine ; for by this rule you must maint●ine , it is in your power to depose not a King only , but Monarchy it selfe , if this chance to be the subject of your disputes . That you are best disposed to mercy , as well as justice . ] We desire you to expresse these words in plain English , and to tell us clearely , whether you doe challenge to your selves a right of pardoning whom you please ( which yet hath been acknowledged this very Parliament a prerogative only belonging to the King . ) But if this be the meaning , we shall lesse wonder , that persons highly corrupt , and most known offendors in publique offices , have been protected from your Iustice , by the Prerogative of your mercy , and that Policy should so farre over-rule Law , that it should be delivered , for sound State Doctrine , that former faults ought not to be lookt upon , if the party accused hath done good service for the present . If this free opening our apprehensions find a gratious acceptance , and ( as is by us infinitely desired ) prosperous successe , we shall render you our most humble and hearty thankes ; if our further endeavours shall be necessary , we will not be wanting to our own and the Kingdoms preservation . FINIS .