The history of the Association, containing all the debates, in the last House of Commons, at Westminster concerning an association, for the preservation of the king's person, and the security of the Protestant religion : the proceedings about an association in the reign of Queen Elizabeth, and a true copy of the Association, produced at the Earl of Shaftsbury's tryal, and said to be found in his lordships study, with some observations on the whole : to which is added by way of postscript reflections on the parallel between the late Association, and the Solemn League and Covenant. 1682 Approx. 105 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2007-01 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). 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A43914) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 49745) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 497:4) The history of the Association, containing all the debates, in the last House of Commons, at Westminster concerning an association, for the preservation of the king's person, and the security of the Protestant religion : the proceedings about an association in the reign of Queen Elizabeth, and a true copy of the Association, produced at the Earl of Shaftsbury's tryal, and said to be found in his lordships study, with some observations on the whole : to which is added by way of postscript reflections on the parallel between the late Association, and the Solemn League and Covenant. England and Wales. Parliament. House of Commons. [2], 26, [4] p. Printed for R. Janeway, London : 1682. Reproduction of original in Huntington Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. 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Keying and markup guidelines are available at the Text Creation Partnership web site . eng Solemn League and Covenant (1643) Great Britain -- Kings and rulers -- Succession. 2006-01 TCP Assigned for keying and markup 2006-02 Apex CoVantage Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2006-05 John Latta Sampled and proofread 2006-05 John Latta Text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-09 pfs Batch review (QC) and XML conversion THE HISTORY OF THE ASSOCIATION , Containing all the DEBATES In the Last House of Commons , AT WESTMINSTER : Concerning an Association , for the Preservation of the Kings Person , and the Security of the Protestant Religion . The Proceedings about an Association in the Reign of Queen ELIZABETH , and a true Copy of the Association , produced at the Earl of SHAFTSBURY'S Tryal , and said to be found in his Lordships Study . With some Observations on the whole . To which is added by way of Postcript Reflections on the Parallel between the late Association , and the Solemn League and Covenant . LONDON , Printed for R. Janeway . 1682. THE HISTORY OF THE ASSOCIATION , &c. AFter the Bill of Exclusion was rejected in the House of Lords , the Commons seemed to be at a stand , not knowing what to do . But soon after his Majesty in his most Gracious Speech of the 15th . December 1680. having promised them The fullest satisfaction their hearts could wish for the security of the Protestant Religion , &c. He concludes thus , and being thus ready on my part to do all that can reasonably be expected from me , I shall be glad to know from you as soon as may be , how far I shall be assisted by you ; and what it is you desire from me ; upon which grounds the first time you heard of the Bill of Association being mentioned was in the Grand Committee , to secure the Kingdom against Popery and Arbitrary Government , wherein Mr. Powel had the chair . At which time the Lord C. and several others speake to this effect , as follows , all already Printed in the Collection of the Debates of the House of Commons at Westminster , 1680. Published by Richard Baldwin . Ld. C. Sir , when I consider the Immunities and Advantages we enjoy by the excellent composure of our Government both in Church and State , how the King as Soveraign , enjoys all the Prerogative that can be necessary to make him either great or happy , and the People all the Liberty and Priviledge that can be pretended for their encouragement to be industrious , and for securing to themselves and Posterities the enjoyment of what they get by their industry . How the Doctrine of the Church is void of Idolatrous Superstitious Opinions ▪ and the Government of Tyranny or absolute Dominion ; I cannot but admire that there should be any body amongst our selves that should aim at any alteration , and be the occasion of this days Debate . But , Sir , it is too evident that such there are , and that they have made a great advance to effect their design , by many contrivances which they have persued for a long course of years , according to the Results and Cousultations held by Jesuites for that purpose : But above all , by converting to their Religion James Duke of York , the presumptive Heir of the Crown , and by engaging him to espouse their interest with that zeal and fervency which usually attends new Converts ; especially when so great a glory is proposed as the rooting out of a pèstslent Heresy out of these three Nations , and the saving of so many Souls as would depend thereon . The sad effect of this Conversion we have felt for many years , it having had the same operations in our Body Politick , as some sorts of lingring Poyson hath in Bodies Natural ; made us sick and consumptive , by infecting and corrupting all the food and Physick which hath been applied in order to reduce us to Popery and slavery , worse than death it self . From this fatal act the declination of the Grandieur of this Monarchy may be dated , and to the consequences thereof its absolute ruine if not timely prevented ) will be hereafter attributed . This being our case , I could not but admire to see this House so long coming to consider this weighty point ; insomuch , that I began to perswade my self , that either our dangers were not so great as our discourses upon some other occasions had represented them , or that we were not in good earnest to endeavour any redress . It is true when we consider what ill fortune we have had with our Bid lately sent up to the house of Lords , we may with some reason be discouraged . But I hope , Sir , that seeing our Country hath thought us worthy to be their Representatives , we shall not be so easily daunted in what so nearly concerns them , but be as indefatigable in finding out wayes for our preservation , as our Enemies are to find out means for our destruction ; hoping we shall not meet always so bad success in the House of Lords : For though the too much kindness of some men who pretended to be for the Bill , but underhand made a party against it , did this time operate as fatally as Enmity disguised in Friendship useth to do , yet I hope that in another occasion we may have better success ; not doubting but a great many Lords , when they are perswaded that they shall not be able to find out any other way ( as I hear they begin to despair they shall ) to secure the Protestant Religion , that they will joyn with us in the same , or some other Bill to the same purpose : Especially my good Lords the Bishops , who cannot be presumed to have made peace with Rome , but to be ready to die for the Protestant Religion , and therefore doubtless will not long stick at joyning in a Bill to save it . But seeing that according to the course of Parliaments we are not like to bring this to a tryal for a long time I am of Opinion we had best try something else ; and although I know not what other Act can be made to serve instead of that , but will either prove to weak or two strong ; yet seeing we are put upon it , we must try , that so we may not be represented as stubborn . And therefore I humbly move you that a Bill may be brought in for the Association of all his Majesty's Protestant Subjects . R. M. Sir , great things are expected from this dayes Debate , and we could not well have entred into it sooner ; it now comes more seasonable than it would have done before , because of the opportunities we have had to feel the pulse of affairs since the beginning of the Session , and the time we have spent in asserting the right of Petitioning , by which the essence of Parliaments , and the foundation of the Peoples Liberties were struck at . And the Tryal of my Lord Stafford , and the Disinheriting-Bill could not possibly have been avoided . And as our labour hath not been lost in all , so I hope that at last we shall have some benefit , of that spent about the Succession-Bill . For as it was said at the passing of the Bill , that there were a Loyal Party that will never acquiesce in it ; so I do believe there is a true Protestant party that will never acquiesce in any thing less than what may be sufficient for the security of their Religion , which I am apt to believe will end in that Bill . But in the mean time , that we may shew that we are not humorists , let us try what strength we can muster up to oppose these great Enemies by some other Laws ; as when an House is on fire we make use of Buckets and Tubs for casting of water , until the great Engines can be got . But I would move you to be cautious what you do , for I am afraid that the design of putting you upon finding out Expedients , is not in order to have any thing done that is effectual against Popery , but in order to have you offer at something that may purchase a disrepute on the House , and give your Enemies an advantage to persue their designes of breaking us , by alleadging that you aim at Laws that will overturn the Government . For my part I am fully perswaded that this is the design of those that have put the King so often to declare against altering the Succession , and to recommend other wayes ; and that offer at what you will , if it be any thing that is like to prove strong enough to secure us against Popery , that you will see the House put off before it come to any perfection , and that in time it will be made use of to arraign the Proceeding of Parliament , and to perswade the people that this House did attempt to alter the Government by such and such Bills , and so by degrees possess the People that Parliaments are either dangerous , or inconsistent with the Government , that if possible they may be well content to be without them . Sir , I am afraid that the Popish party are more serious in this design than we are aware of ; and that next to the great endeavours they have used for many years to keep on our divisions in points of Religion , the next great Artifice which they depend on , is the infusing into the people the dislikes of Parliaments : For they well know that Popery can never be established in this Nation , as long as Parliaments are permitted to Sit and Act. Therefore , though I know it is below a House of Commons to mind every little discourse , yet I think if we conclude that this powerful Party amongst their many designes have this for one , that we ought to countermine it as much as we can . We cannot well comprehend what a Bill of Association will be before it be drawn up , nor what difficulties may be found in the contriving of it ; and therefore I think no great debate will be necessary about it before such a Bill will be brought in . And I believe it will be found more likely to be serviceable in case the Papists be banished ; and therefore I conceive a Bill for Banishment of all the considerable Bapists out of England may be very nacessary . And if at the same time that we endeavour to secure our selves against Poperty , we do not also do something to prevent Arbitrary Power , it will be too little purpose ; for the one will be sure to give a hand to bring in the other ; and I think nothing can prevent that ; or rather both , better than frequent Parliaments . And therefore I humbly move you that a Bill for securing frequent Parliaments may be taken into your consideration . Sir G. H. Sir , I think you are well adviced that the way to secure our selves effectually against Popery , is to secure our selves also against Arbitrary Government , and that the having of frequent Parliaments is the best way to secure both ; and therefore , Sir , I think you do well to move the House that a Committee be appointed to inspect what old Laws there are for enforceing the sitting of frequent Parliaments , that if they should be found deficient , some new Laws may be made for that purpose . I do agree that a Bill for Banishing out of England the most Considerable Papists may do well ; but I hope , Sir , that if you banish the Men , you will banish some Women too ; For I do believe that some of that Sex have been great Instruments in bringing about our ruine : and if in time you would consider how to prevent the Royal Families marrying Popish Women , it would be of great security hereafter . For I am of Opinion that the late Queen Mother's Zeal for her Religion was not only a great occasion ( amongst many others ) of the miseries that befel us in forty one , but the great cause of all our Miseries now , by perverting the Duke from his Religion , as is reported , and may reasonably be believed , if we conclude that she had that Motherly care for the salvation of her Children as other Mothers usually have ; for according to her Opinion , it was not to be obtained out of the pale of that Church : And no man can doubt but that the Protestant Interest hath been much Prejudiced by his Majesties marrying a Princess of that Religion : For we have plainly seen since the discovery of the Plot , how some of the most material Jesuites and Popish Instruments have sheltered themselves under her Royal Protection , and how they have helpt to carry on the Plot , by being so impudent as to pretend they had her patronage , and by abusing her Authority ; but more especially by the Dukes marrying the Princess of Modena , because of her near Relation to the Pope and Cardinals . All which was plainly foreseen by that Parliament which met a little before that Marriage , in 1673. and therefore they made an Address to his Majesty , representing the said ill consequences , desiring him not to permit it , because it would tend to the destrustion of the Protestant Religion . But their endeavours were defeated by that Party , as we may guess , seeing we find so much use of her name in Colemans Letters ; for well might they who have over-ruled in so many affairs as have been instanced in this House , have an influence also in this , that so that Party might not want so useful an Instrument in so great a station : and so the Parliaments Address miscarried ; but that they had either a good Judgment , or Prophetick Spirit , I hope will never miscarry , but remain upon Record . And unless you do believe that these Ladies are less compassionate than others usually are , how can it be otherwise , their Principles considered ; But , Sir , I will not trouble you farther about it , but suppose it may be worth your consideration in due time . In the interim , I agree for the Bill of Banishment and Association too . I. B. Sir I retain a good opinion of an Association-bill , notwithstanding what hath been said as to the weakness it may receive from our unhappy Divisions in point of Religion and Interest , too much promoted by some of our Clergy . For , Sir , when I consider how the Laudean principles , as to raising of Money without Parliaments in the late times , infected most of our Clergy , so as that they not onely preached up the Kings absolute Authority over mens Properties , but branded with the title of Rebels , and condemned to Hell those that offered to argue against it . I do conclude that it is usual for one or two Bishops , to give measures or directions to the rest of the Bishops , and they to the Clergy of their several Diocesses : And that therefore the Clergy derive the Politicks generally from one Bishop or two in some great station . Yet Sir , when I remember how after some little time many of the Clergy fell off , and would not follow such instructions ; and how the People soon excused themselves from following their advice in such Politicks , and would not freely pay illegal Taxes , notwithstanding all their endeavours . I am apt to think ; Sir , that as the People were not long then mislead , so as to submit to lose their Property , so they will not now , to any thing that shall tend to the losing of their Religion and Property both . They will soon discover what is their interest , and how true interest will not lye . I have often told you within these walls , they will soon apprehend that Popery will bring in slavery , and reduce them not only to an Idolatrous Superstitious Religion , but to wear Wooden-shooes like the French , and to eat Herbs like the Spaniard , because they will soon know that they shall not be long Masters of any thing they have : And however they may be perswaded for a while , I am confident they will at last consult how to save their Bacon . They will discern that the Clergy may be good Divines , but not so good Politicians ; and that there may be some difference in point of Interest between them and the Clergy , because Clergy-men may be in a possibility of being advanced by Popery if they submit ; but the Laity under a probability of losing all notwithstanding all submissions . Sir , I do not trouble you with this Discourse out of a fear that our Clergy will not shew themselves good Protestants , for I have that veneration for them , and opinion of them , as to believe that many of the Bishops and Clergy too , would assoon die for the Protestant Religion as any persons in the Nation . But I am jealous that there is some over-awing Power got in amongst them , something answerable to that of a Popish Successor in the State ; by whose means those Bills were so easily past in the late long Parliament , under a pretence that they were for the preservation of the Protestant Religion , which the Commons than found , and any person that will now peruse them may find , would infalibly have brought in Popery . And , how since the Plot , the danger of Fanaticks is cryed up more than that of the Papists ; and how tender they are in the point of a Popish Successor , or joyning in any thing against him . But though these things make me jealous there is some body that misleads them now in matters relating to Popery , as formerly in things relating to Property , yet I am of opinion that they will ere long see , that to stand up for the Interest of a Popish Successor , to have a Popish King , to weaken the Protestant Interest and to speak ill of Parliaments , is not the right way to preserve the Protestant Religion ; but a plain contradiction , and an invention of Jesuites . And therefore , Sir , I am for going on with the Allociation-Bill ; for I will never doubt , that the true Interest of the Nation , in so great a concern as this , will long be baffled by such projectors . and therefore it is my desire , that the House may be moved to appoint a Committee to draw up a Bill for that purpose . Sir W. H. Sir , I think you have been well moved , as well for the Association-Bill , as the Banishing-Bill . By the one , you will send your Enemies out of the Country ; by the other , be in a good condition to keep them out , which may go a great way to secure us . Sir R. T. Sir , you have been verywell moved for the bringing in of such Bills as may tend as much to the security of the Protestant Religion as any that can be offered . That of Banishment will certainly go a great way to destroy , not only their Power , but their Interest and Principles too , and be a great disheartning to their party abroad . That Interest will not then have so many Engines to work with here , as now they have . And the Bill of Association will be necessary , that we may have a Law to defend our selves . The Association made in Queen Elizabeth's time , will be a good President to draw it up by . And seeing there is no opposition , I move you to put the Question . R. M. Sir , By offering at the Exclusion Bill , we may conclude we have offended the Duke of York , by this Bill for Banishment , all the rest of the considerable Papists in England . As we have made many Enemies , so it will be convenient that we should endeavour to get some Law to defend our selves against their implacable designes . For which a Bill for an Association of all His Majesties Protestant Subjects may do well , and therefore I pray that we may move the House to have it brought in , Sir G. G. Sir , I am of opinion the Popish Plot goeth on as much as ever , and the Papists are so proud of it , as they cannot forbear bragging of their hopes to see better days speedily . I think Sir , seeing we are not like for one while to have the Exclusion-Bill , we shall appear neglectful of our duty , if we do not try what security can be contrived by an Association-Bill . And therefore I humbly pray that the House may be moved to appoint a Committee to draw up and bring in a Bill for Associating all his Majesties Protestant Subjects . I find in Cooke's Reports , that when the Nation was in apparent danger , the People might go directly to the King with their Grievances , and make their Complaints and Petitions known . I think we may do well to consult this Text , and see if we can find out any better way than what we have tryed already , to convey our humble Supplications to his Royal Person . In the mean time I think you had not best to go off from the Bill of Association ; for which we have a President in Queen Elizabeth's time , first made by the Gentry , and afterwards confirmed by Act of Parliament . L. G. Sir , I would not discourage you from going on with these Bills ; but I am afraid they will fall far short of the Power and strength that will be necessary to root out an Interest that hath been above an hundred years reivetting it self by all arts and wayes Imaginable , and hath now fixt it self so near the Throne . I must confess , I am afraid we are at labour in vain , and that this Interest hath so clenched it self ( as the Jesuites term it ) that it will break not only this Parliament , but many more , if not all Parliaments , and the Protestant Religion too . It is too weighty to be removed , or perverted , by such little Bills as these : No , Sir , you will find , that nothing less than a firm Vnion amongst all the Protestants in this Nation , can be sufficient to give any check to this Interest . As long as there are amongst us so many persons as know not rightly how to apply the dangers of the Church and State , nor the miseries of Forty One , but will be lead by Popish Projectors ; I am afraid such Bills as these will not do our business : because they will not destroy that footing which they have at Court , nor strengthen the Protestant Interest , which must have its original from Union . It is strange , that none but those who are for the Duke's interest , should be the only persons thought fit to be in places of trust ! It is so strange a way to preserve the Protestant Church and Religion , that it raiseth with me a doubt , whether any such thing be designed . Such Persons may be proper to manage Affairs in favour of the Popish interest ; but it is to be admired , that they , and they only , should be thought fit to be intrusted with the Protestant interest . I think it as hard for them to do it , as to serve two Masters . It is not usual in other Countryes to retain their Enimies in the Government , nor such as are Friends to their Enimies ; and it is strange that we , of all other Nations , should fall into this piece of Policy . But Sir , for these reasons you may conclude , that unless what Laws you make , be strong and well penned , they will signifie nothing against so powerful a Party as you have to do with . Sir W. J. Sir , there hath been so much said already upon the Subject-matter of this Debate , that I shall have little occasion to trouble you long . The worthy Member that spoke a while since , hath shewed you from whence our fears of Popery arise , from the dependance they have of assistance from France , Ireland , and Scotland in case there should be a Popish King , besides the Party they have here , and the advantage they will have by the Government , which is already secured for that Interest ; and of it self would be sufficient to contest with the Protestant interest , who in such a case would have no King to head them , no persons in any place of trust to execute any Laws in their behalf , nor no legal power to defend themselves . And therefore , seeing there is a Negative past upon the Bill , we had contrived to secure us from these great dangers , I think Sir , we may do well to try if we can get any thing else . But I am perswaded if this Association-Bill be made as it should be , that we shall have no better success with it than we had with the Exclusion-Bill : For I am afraid , that though we are permitted to brandish our Weapons , yet that we should not be allowed to wound Popery ; but rather do believe , that they which advised the throwing out of that Bill , will also do the same by this , or dissolve the House before it come to perfection : For this Bill must be much stronger than that in Queen Elizabeths days ; that was for an Association only after her death , but I cannot tell if such a Bill will secure us now , the circumstances we are under being very different . In Queen Etizabeths days the Privy Councellors were all for the Queens Interest , and none for the Successors ; now most of the Privy Councellors are for the Successors , and few for the King 's . Then the Ministers unanimously agreed to keep our Popery , now we have to much reason to fear , there are many that are for bringing it in . In those days they all agreed to keep the Popish Successor in Scotland , now the Major part agreed to keep the Successor here ; all which must be considered in drawing out of the Bill . After all these debates it was at length Resolved , That it is the opinion of this Committe , that the House be moved , that a Bill be brought in for an Association of all his Majesties Protestant Subjects , for the safety of his Majesties Person , the defence of the Protestant Religion , and the preservation of his Majesties Protestant Subjects , against all invasions and Oppositions ; and for preventing the Duke of York , or any other Papists , from succeeding to the Crown . December 17. 1680. THe House resolved into a Committee , further to consider of ways and means to secure the Kingdom against Popery and Arbitrary Government ; and after several Debates , how ineffectual all Laws would prove without having good Judges , Justices , and others in Commission that will execute them , and how frequent Parliaments would conduce to have Laws put duely in execution . Resolved , That it is the Opinion of this House , that the House be moved , that a Bill be brought in for the more effectual securing of the Meetings and Sittings of frequent Parliaments . Resolved , That it is the Opinion of this Committee , that the House be moved , that a Bill be brought in that the Judges may hold their Places and Sallaries , quam diu se bene gesserint . Resolved , That it is the Opinion of this Committee , that one means to prevent Arbitrary Power is , that the House be moved , that a Bill be brought in against illegal exaction of Money upon the people , to make it High Treason . Reported to the House , and agreed to . His Majesties Speech made to both Houses , Decemb. 15. was read . J. H. Mr Speaker , SIR , The Veneration that is due to all His Majesties Speeches , doth require that we should seriously Debate them before we give any Answer to them ; but the circumstances we are under at this time , challenge a more than ordinary Consultation . For by the tenor of the Speech , I conclude , that the Success of this Parliament depends upon our Answer to it , and consequently the safety of the Protestant Religion , both at home and abroad . And therefore I think my self very unable to advise in this matter , and should not have attempted it , but that you have encouraged me by your leave to speak first . So that if I offer any thing amiss , those that come after will have opportunities to correct me . I would begin with the latter end of the Speech first , because that part of it is most likely to be get a fair understanding between his Majesty and this House . But I cannot but observe what great care is here again taken of preserving the Succession in the Right Line , as in all other his Majesties Speeches ever since the Plot break out . I think more could not be done , though it were in behalf of the Kings Son , and a Protestant too . That limitation , and his Majesties offers of securing the Protestant Religion , ( if by Succession in the Right Line may be meant the Duke ) upon many Debates in this House is found irreconcileable , and therefore must be imputed to those that have advised his Majesty thereto . To preserve the Right of Succession in the Duke , is to preserve something or nothing . The something must be no less , then the Crown , in case of his Majesties death , and so consequently the interest of the Popish party , who after one hundred years endeavours to have a Prince of their Religion , the indefatigable industry of the Jesuits to obtain it , and the loss of so much Blood spent therein , will , besides their principles and inclinations , lay on them great obligations to make use of the opportunity to establish their Religion again in this Nation . So that I must confess , these reservations look to me like a perfect design to save the whole Party , accompanied with a power and a pretence sufficient to enable them to accomplish their end . For to this , the saving the Dukes right doth amount , and consequently the destruction of the Protestant Religion . Which cannot be imagined to proceed from his Majesty . In former times the interest of no one man could ever bare up against the interest of the Nation , now , it seems , that the Religion , Lives , and Liberties of all the people of this Nation ; nay , I may say , all the Protestants of the Three Nations must all be lost , rather then one man be dispossest of his right , though by his own Act hath made himself incapable to enjoy it . Certainly there must be more intended by this , then the saving of one man , it must be the saving of a Party . And therefore , Sir , I am afrraid we are but where we were two years ago . For it is plain to me , that there is a certain fatal Scheme which hath been exactly pursued these twenty years , in order to destroy the Protestant Interest , and hath had a strange secret operation in the management of all our affairs . And although now and then some accidents have hapned , that have occasioned some alteration for a time , as by his Majesties recalling the Toleration , some Transactions of Parliaments , the breaking out of the plot , and his Majesties Toleration of his Council , 1679. Yet I observe that after a little while there is no change in the main , all returns to the old Scheme , as if there were a certain infallible ballance that did preponderate . We have had so much experience of his Majesties goodness and inclinations , that we cannot but conclude , that there is still some such thing , as a wheel within a wheel , whether Jesuits , ( for 't is like them ) or who I cannot tell , nor how the Government is influenced , that the Protestants should not be able to obtain any thing for their security . But we may guess , and justly fear , that it will never be other ways , as long as there is a Popish Successor . The truth is , we have a hard task to serve our King and Country , in such a time as this is . We may expose our selves to the rage of a powerful party , but I am afraid , get little to secure our selves against their revenge . We are under the same inequailty as fair gamesters , that meet with those that use false Dice , and are like to have the same ill luck at last , unless his Majesty should be pleased to consider , who stands up most for his Government , and who plays fairest , and accordingly , change his Councils . The first three Paragraphs of the Speech are about Alliances , the fourth about Tangier , the fifth about securing the Succession , the sixth to know what we desire , and what we will do . Sir , I take no delight in looking backward , but without doing it at this time , I am afraid we shall not mend , as we go forward . It is not to be doubted , but that as well for the security of the Nation , at home , as of Flanders against the power of France and the Protestant Religion abroad , we are under a necessity to make Alliances , and that they cannot be made nor supported without Money . But did we not give above Two Millions for the preservation of the Tripple-League , and was it not by the power of the French and Popish Party imployed to break it ? Did we not a little while since give about a Million and half for an actual French War , and was there not presently a general Peace made ? Do not all Forreign Nations complain , that notwithstanding all our Treaties , pretences , and Declarations , we have been only true to France ? And what reason have we now to imagine , that if we should give Money for Leagues , that it would be imployed otherwise then formerly ? Is not the same Scheme of Government pursued still ? Is not the French Ambassador , and the French Women too , as great at Court as ever ? And have not the Dukes Creatures the management of all our affairs ? and if the Dukes interest , the French interest , and the Popish interest be all one , can you imagine , that your Money shall be imployed to make any Alliances that shall be for the advantage of the Protestant Religion . No , Sir , though his Majesty so intend it , yet the wheel within a wheel , which hath managed all other alliances hitherto , will also manage these , and have the Disposal of your Money too , and pervert it to our Destruction . And until things settle here at home , on a true Protestant bottom , it cannot be imagined , that any Forraign Prince will depend on us , or make Alliances with us . And therefore , as well for that , as because our Money may not probably be disposed of for any good end , it is in vain to Treat of either Alliances or Money . For until the Interest be changed at Court , that so there may be a better understanding between the King and his People , it cannot produce any thing for our advantage . As to Tangier , and the Succession , there hath been so much said already , when those points were debated , that I will not trouble you with more at this time . But I beg leave to add something about the latter part of the Speech , which doth a little comfort me , because I hope we may graft such an Answer thereupon , as may beget a right understanding with His Majesty . I know this House is constituted of persons much different from that of the Long Parliament , because of the many Pensioners that were in it , and that we need not now be afraid to talk of Money . I believe we all know , that without giving Money this Session , the Nation can never be happy , nor His Majesties Government so formidable as it ought to be . And therefore I would humbly move you to appoint a Committee , to draw up an Address to assure His Majesty , that when His Majesty shall be pleased to grant us such Laws , as are necessary for the security of our Religion , which may be particularized in the Address ; that we will be ready to give him what Money his occasions may require , not only for the support of Tangier , and Alliances , but to enable him to have a good Fleet at Sea , for the encouraging of Seamen , and security of Trade , and preservation of his Dominions ; that so we may shew we are ready to express our duty , as well by our acts as words . Ld R. Mr. Speaker , Sir , being it is so apparent that all our fears of Popery arise from , and center in the Duke of York ; and that it is impossible the affairs of this Nation should ever settle on a good Protestant bottom , as long as there is a Popish Successor , which cannot be prevented but by the Succession Bill . That there may be no ill construction made of our desires I would humbly move you to offer to supply the King , with what money he may need for the support of Tangier and Alliances , upon his granting of the Succession Bill only , that so His Majesty may have no reason to be diffident of us : not doubting , but that if we can once but lay a foundation for a good Correspondence , that His Majesty will take so much content in it , beyond what he doth now enjoy , that to preserve it , he will afterwards grant us what more Bills may be further necessary for the security of the Protestant Religion . And therefore I am not for clogging this Address with any request for anything more , than that one Bill . Sir W. J. Mr. Speaker . Sir , We have hitherto had so little success in our endeavours , that we may justly suspect , we are permitted to sit here , rather to destroy our selves , then to save our Country . It is a matter of admiration to me , that those who have so often advised His Majesty , to put this and the former Parliaments upon finding out Expedients , for securing the Protestant Religion , without altering the Succession should all this while find out none themselves , but still continue advising the King to put that upon us , which after many Debates is found to be impossible . And that the King should always have at his elbow , persons ready to remember him constantly to make his limitation , which in all appearance must tend to the final destruction of the Protestant Religion . And that there should be no body there , to mind him of proposing some Expedients to prevent it , only in general words , of which no use can be made , According to the opinion of Three successive Parliaments , the limitation in favour of the Popish Interest , is plain , intelligible , and practicable . I hope his Majesty against the next occasion , will require them that have so advised him , to make the Expedients , and other ways to secure the Protestant Religion , as plain and practicable ; that so we may see if the security of the Protestant Religion be designed in good earnest by such advisers , which I cannot believe ; because what they propose , is in my opinion a contradiction in it self . Without the Exclusion-Bill , there can be no Expedient , but what will leave us in that miserable condition , of having first or last a contest with our lawful King. And there can be no such thing as setting up a power to oppose him , but by putting a kind of Supream Authority in the Parliament , with a power to oppose , as well by making War as Laws , which might prove the destruction of the Monarchial Government . The said trust or power ( without the Exclusion Bill ) being not to be reposed in the next Heir , or any single person , least he should dye before he come to have the power in him , or utterly refuse to act if he should live to have a right by vertue of such a settlement , to administer the Government . In such a case there would be no lawful power lodged any where else , to oppose such a King , and there must not be an inter Regnum . By this short account you may see , what difficulties all expedients will be liable too , and may conclude , that those that advise the King to make this Limitation , do intend it as an Expedient to make the endeavours of Parliaments ineffectual , and to bring in Popery . And if you had offered at such Expedients as I have mentioned , as the last House of Commons was Arraigned for Omnipotent and Arbitrary , so would this with some worse Character ; as having attempted to destroy the Monarchical Government , that if possible the King and People might be put out of love with Parliaments . But Sir , though it is plain that things are thus out of order , yet let us not be wanting in our duty , but give such an Answer to his Majesty , as may if possible , create in him a good opinion Of his House , and satisfie him of the necessity of the Bill of Exclusion , and that all other Acts of Grace will but serve to fatten us for the slaughter of our Enemies . The last part of this Speech , I believe , is his Majesties own ; he seems willing to know what you expect from him , and what you will do for him , which I think is a fair proposition to come to an understanding . And although it be not good manners to offer to make a bargain with his Majesty ; but as in bargains there is a quid and pro quo , so in this . And I think we need not fear talking of money in this House , being all seem resolved to give it freely , if we can be secured of our Religion , but not otherways . And therefore I humbly conceive , you may accordingly express your selves plain in your Address . W. G. Mr. Speaker , Sir , if you do not represent all your Grievances in this Address , as the condition of your giving Money , whatever you shall offer at afterwards , will be looks as clamarous and out of order . And therefore I would advise you not to omit any one Grievance you expect any ●e ready in . And I am for enumerating all your Grievances in the Address , which have been lately Debated . And I do admire no body does take notice of the standing Army which if not reduced to such a number as may be convenient for Guards , and so limited , that they may not be increased , unless in case of a Rebellion or an Invasion , all your Laws may signifie nothing . And I am not satisfied , in the making of such general offers of Money . For if you do , you will hear in time , that the Fleet needs one Million Allyances as much more , and Tangier ( though I think not worth keeping ) little less . A demand of Three Millions , grounded on your general promise , would perplex the House how to come off with that reputation , which a House of Commons ought to preserve with the King. I know not how such a promise may be turned upon you , and therefore I am either for demanding more , or promising less . Sir E. H. Mr. Speaker , Sir , I am very unwilling to have this Parliament broken , yet I cannot agree , that to prevent it , we should offer so much , and demand so little as hath been mentioned . Have we not sat two dayes in a Committee , to examine the dangerous estate of the Kingdom , and ordered several good Bills to be brought in thereupon , for the securing us against Popery and Arbitrary power , and shall we now the next day lay all those Bills aside , and be content with the Exclusion-Bill onely , which I think will be worth nothing , unless you can get more . And therefore , though to obtain them you spoke plain English , and mentioned what sum you intend to give , I think you will be safer to offer Money in general words , without declaring what , or enumerating your Bills . G. V. Mr. Speaker , Sir , I cannot agree with this worthy Member , for it would take up some days Debates , to agree what some is necessary to supply his Majesties occasions , and what sum to express . And it may be to no purpose , as the case stands with us , unless we were sure his Majesty would find out some way to bring the Exclusion Bill about again , then indeed we might come to particulars . In the mean time , a promise in general words may be sufficient , and save the House a great deal of time . And for my part , I am not for enumerating many Bills , but should be content to give Money upon having the Exclusion Bill only , which being so precisely necessary for the preservation of our Religion all the world will justifie us in the demanding it , before we part with Money , and therefore I desire the Committe may draw up the Address accordingly . Resolved , That a Committee be appointed to prepare an Humble Address to His Majesty , upon the Debate of the House , in answer to His Majesties Speech . December 20. 1680. Mr. Hampden reports the Address ; which was read . The Humble Address of the House of Commons presented to his Majesty , in Answer to his Majesties Gracious Speech to both Houses of Parliament , upon the 15th day of the same December . May it please your most Excellent Majesty , WE Your Majesties most Dutiful and Loyal Subjects , the Commons in this present Parliament Assembled , have taken into our serious Consideration , Your Majesties Gracious Speech to both Your Houses of Parliament , on the 15th of this Instant December ; and do with all the grateful Sense of Faithful Subjects , and sincere Protestants , acknowledg Your Majesties great goodness to us , in renewing the assurances You have been pleased to give us of your readiness to concur with us in any m●●● for the security of the Protestant Religion , and Your Gracious Invitation of us to make our desires known to your Majesty . But with grief of Heart we cannot but observe , that to these Princely Offers , your Majesty has been advised ( by what secret Enemies to Your Majesty and Your People , we know not ) to annex a Reservation , which if insisted on , in the instance to which alone it is applicable , will tender all Your Majesties other Gracious Inclinations of no effect or advantage to us . Your Majesty is pleased thus to limit Your promise of Concurrence in the Remedies which shll be proposed , that they may consist with preserving the Succession of the Crown in it's due and legal course of Descent . And we d● humbly inform four Majesty that no Interruption of that Descent has been endeavoured by us , except only the Descent upon the Person of the Duke of York , who by the wicked Instruments of the Church of Rome , has been manifestly perverted to their Religion . And we do humbly represent to Your Majesty , as the Issue of our most deliberate Thoughts and Consultations that for the Papists to have their hopes continued , that a Prince of that Religion shall succeed in the Throne of these Kingdoms , is utterly inconsistent with the Safety of your Majesties Person , the preservation of the Protestant Religion , and the Prosperity , Peace , and Welfare of your Protestant Subjects . That your Majesties Life is in continual danger , under the prospict of a Popish Successor , is evident not only from the Principles of those devoted to the Church of Rome , which allow that an Heritical Prince ( and such they term all Protestant Princes ) Excommunicated and Deposed by the Pope , may be destroyed and murthered , but also from the Testimonies given in the prosecution of the horrid Popish Plot , against divers Traitors attainted for designing to put those accursed Principles into practice against Your Majesty . From the expectation of this Succession , has the number of Pupists in your Majesties Dominions so much increased within these few years , and so many been prevailed with to desert the true Protestant Religion , that they might be prepared for the Favours of a Popish Prince , assoon as he shall come to the possession of the Crown : And while the same Expectation lasts , many more will be in the same danger of being perverted . This it is that has hardned the Papists of the Kingdom , animated and confederated by their Priests and Jesuits , to make a Common Purse , provide Arms , make application to Forreign Princes , and sollicite their Aid , for imposing Popery upon us ; and all this even during Your Majesties Reign , and while Your Majesties Government and the Laws were our protection . It is Your Majesties Glory and true Interest , to be the Head and Protector of all Protestants , as well abroad as at home : But if these hopes remain , what Alliances can be made for the advantage of the Protestant Religion and Interest , which shall give confidence to Your Majesties Allies , to joyn so vigorously with your Majesty , as the State of that Interest in the World now requires , whilst they see this Protestant Kingdom in so much danger of a Popish Successor ; by whom at the present , all their Councils and Actions may be eluded , as hitherto they have been , and by whom ( if he should succeed ) they are sure to be destroyed ? We have thus humbly laid before your Majesty , some of those great Dangers and Mischiefs which evidently accompany the expectation of a Popish successor . The certain and unspeakable Evils which will come upon your Your Majesties Protestant Subjects and their Posterity , if such a Prince should inherit , are more also than we can well enumerate . Our Religion , which is now so dangerously shaken , will then be totally overthrown ; nothing will be left , or can be found to protect or defend it . The execution of old Laws must cease , and it will be vain to expect new ones . The most sacred Obligations of Contracts and Promises ( if any should be given ) that shall be judged to be against the Interest of the Romish Religion , will be violated ; as is undeniable , not only from Argument and Experience elsewhere , but from the sad Experience this Nation once had on the like occasion . In the Reign of such a Prince , the Pope will be acknowledged Supream ( though the Subjects of this Kingdom have sworn the contrary ) and all Causes , either as Spiritual , or in order to Spiritual Things , will be brought under his Jurisdiction . The Lives , Liberties , and Estates of all such Protestants , as value their Souls and their Religion more than their secular Concernments , will be adjudged forfeited . To all this we might add , That it appears in the discovery of the Plot , that Forreign Princes were invited to assist in securing the Crown to the Duke of York , with Arguments from his great Zeal to establish Popery , and to extirpate Protestants ) whom they call Hereticks ) out of his Dominions , and such will expect performance accordingly . We further humbly beseech Your Majesty , in Your great Wisdom to consider , Whether in case the Imperial Crown of this Protestant Kingdom should descend to the Duke of York , the opposition which may possibly be made to his possessing it , may not onely endanger the farther descent in the Royal Line , but even Monarchy it self . For these Reasons we are most humble Petitioners to Your most Sacred Majesty , That in tender commiseration of Your poor Protestant People , your Majesty will be graciously pleased to depart from the Reseruation in your said Speech ; and when a Bill shall be tendred to Your Majesty , in a Parliamentary way , to dissable the Duke of York from inheriting the Crown , Your Majesty will give your Royal Assent thereto ; and as necessary to fortifie and defend the same , that Your Majesty will likewise be graciously pleased to Assent to an Act whereby Your Majesties Protestant Subjects may be enabled to Associate themselves for the defence of Your Majesties Person , the Protestant Religion , and the Security of your Kingdoms . These Requests we are constrained humbly to make to Your Majesty as of absolute Necessary , for the safe and peaceable Enjoyment of our Religion . Without these things , the Alliances of England will not be valuable , nor the People Encouraged to contribute to your Majesties Service . As some farther means for the Preservation both of our Religion and Propriety , We are humble Suiters to your Majesty , that from henc●forth such persons only may be Judges within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales , as are men of Ability , Integrity , and known affection to the Protestant Religion . And that they may hold both their Offices and Salleries : Quam diu se bene gesterint . That ( several Deputy-Lieutenants and Justices of the Peace , fitly qualified for those Imployments , having been of late displaced , and others put in their room ; who are men of Arbitrary principles , and Countenancers of Papists and Popery ) such only may bear the Office of a Lord-Lieutenant as are persons of Integrity and known Affection to the Protestant Religion . That Deputy-Lieutenants and Justices of the Peace may be also so qualified , and may be moreover men of ability , of Estates and Interest in their Country . That none may be employed as Military Officers in Your Majesties Fleet , but men of known Experience , Courage , and Affection to the Protestant Religion . These our humble Requests being Obtained , We shall on our part be ready to Assist Your Majesty for the Preservation of Tangier , and for putting Your Majesties Fleet into such a condition as it may preserve Your Majesties Soveraignty of the Seas , and be for the Defence of the Nation . If your Majesty hath or shall make any necessary Alliances for the Defence of Protestant Religion , and Interest and Security of this Kingdom , this house will be ready to Assist and Stand by Your Majesty in the support of the same . After this our Humble Answer to Your Majesties Gracious Speech , we hope no evil Instruments whatsoever shall be able to lessen Your Majesties Esteem of that Fidelity and Affection we bear to Your Majesties Service ; but that Your Majesty will alwayes retain in Your Royal Breast , that favourable Opinion of us Your Loyal Commons , that those other good Bills which we have now under Consideration , c nducing to the Great Ends we have before mentioned ; as also all Laws for the benefit and comfort of your People , which shall from time to time be tendred for your Majesties Royal Assent , shall find acceptance with your Majesty . E. V. Mr. Speaker , Sir , I have hearkened with all the attention I could to this Address , and do agree with the first part of it . The Dangers and Inconveniences arising from a Popish Successor , are very obvious ; and that there will be no Peace nor Tranquility in this Nation for the present , as long as there is a Popish Successor , and that our Religion will be lost , if there should be a Popish King , I am afraid is too true : But yet I must crave leave to dissent from the opinion of those worthy Members that have drawn it , as to the other parts thereof . I think it is not convenient at this time , to press so hard for the Exclusion , Bill , because we know we cannot have it without a Prorogative , which for my part I fear at this time , as much as I do a Popish Successour : For I do believe , if it should happen , that you will sooner see the Duke at White-hall , than this Assembly meet together again between these Walls . And therefore am not willing to give the Popish party such an advantage to procure our Dissolution , lest they should lay hold of it , as I believe they would ; by which the Protestant Interest both abroad and at home , will be ruin'd . And As I cannot agree in this , so neither in pressing the Association Bill . For being it hath not yet been brought into the House , we do not well known what will be the purport of it . And it is not proper , that we should ask of the King we know not what ; nor expect that he should grant us what he can know nothing of . And truly , Sir , I think that these things about the Judges , Deputy-Lieutenants , and Justices of the Peace , are minute things to be insisted on at this time , compared with others which might be demanded . Queen Elizabeths Councellors never thought her safe , until the Popish Successor was inclosed in a Tower ; and I am afraid that you will never be safe , until you take some such course that may bring things to an issue . When you have done that , and banished all the considerable Papists out of England , I think we shall not be in so apparent danger , as we now are . And seeing this may probably be granted , and the other Bills not , I humbly move you to recommit the Address that it may be better considered . I know not how this may agree with the sense of the House , but I shall always crave leave to speak in this place according to my Conscience , that so I may have peace within me ; but readily submit to better Judgments . Sir W. J. Mr. Speaker . Sir , I am very glad that worthy member agrees in the apprehensions of the dangers arising from a Popish Successour , and in the necessity of the Bill of Exclusion ; and am very sorry I cannot agree with him in the rest of his Discourse . I cannot imagine , without a high reflection upon his Majesty , that if he should be perswaded to prorogue the House for two or three days , in order to pass the Exclusion Bill , that he should instead of permitting us to meet again , dissolve the Parliament which is quite contrary to it . I fear a Prorogation , without being intended for this ; but if once we could prevail with his Majesty to do it for this end , I shall not doubt the desired effect . And in pressing the Association Bill , we shall not press the King to grant us we know not what ▪ The word Association may very well be understood , and the ends of it are declared to be for the security of his Majesties Person , and the Protestant Religion . And if when drawn , it should be directed to other ends . I suppose this House will take care to mend it ; if not , the Kings promise can bind no farther than to pass a Bill for those ends . But I do much admire to hear , that the having of good Judges , Justices , and Commanders at Sea and Land , is a trivial thing : For I think that all other things you desire without it , would signifie nothing . As long as the Laws and Militia of the Nation is in the hands of persons not well-affected to the Protestant Interest , I am afraid we shall have no security against Popery . As to the new way that hath been proposed of bringing matters relating to the Popish Successour , to such an issue , as that he may be secured , as in Queen Elizabeth's time . If he had been sensible that there are none in Office but what are for his Interest , he would first have agreed to have endeavoured to have got such changed , before he would have proposed that way . And it would be necessary that we should also have such Privy-Councellors as Queen Elizabeth had , and not Eleven to Seven for the Popish Successor . And therefore seeing these Proposals have no more appearance of being for your service , I see no reason you have to be diverted from the way you were going : And therefore I humbly move to agree with your Committee . The House Agreed . December 21. 1680. A Bill was read for Vniting his Majesties Protestant Subjects . P. Mr. Speaker . SIr , is it not to be doubted but that the happiness of this Nation and safety of our Religion doth depend very much upon preserving the well-constituted Government of the Church , and that the Government in the State will not long stand if that be pull'd down , to which , I am afraid , this Bill will contribute very much . Sir , it is well known , how notwithstanding all the endeavours of his Majesty , as well in Parliament as otherwise , all the Acts that are in force against Dissenters , all the endeavours of the Fathers of the Church , there are a sort of men , and great numbers too , who will neither be advised nor overruled , but under the pretence of Conscience break violently through all Laws whatsoever , to the great disurbance both of Church and State. And if you should give them more Liberty , you will encourage them to go on with more boldness ; and therefore I think it will be more convenient to have a Law for forcing the Dissenters to yield to the Church , and not to force the Church to yield to them ; And I think we are going quite the wrong way to do the Nation good . And therfore I 〈◊〉 against this Bill . D. Mr. Speaker . Sir , I would not open my mouth in favour of this Bill if I thought it would any ways prejudice the Church , or Church-Government ; but I believe it may have a quite-contrary effect , and tend more for the preservation and safety of the Church and Church-Government , than any Bill whatsoever that could be contrived . We have a Church-Government setled by Law , to which the Major-part of the People like good Christians and Loyal Subjects give obedience ; but it is our misfortune that there are in the Nation a great many which will not submit to this Government , which may be divided under three Heads . 1. The Papists , who differ from us in points of Faith , and will not give any obeysance but to the Church of Rome . 2. Independants , Presbyterians , and some others , who agree in points of Faith , and differ only in some points of Doctrine and Ceremonies , 3. Quakers , who disagree not only in points of Doctrine and Ceremonies , but in points of Faith , and are a head-strong sort of unreasonable people , that will not Submit to any Laws made about Religion , but do give obedience to the Civil Magistrate upon all other occasions . The Church of England men , are not only the greatest number , but have the Government of their side . What Laws to make that may tend most to the preserving of it is your business . It is in danger from the Papists on the one hand , and the rest of the Protestant-Dissenters on the other , who in some measure agree in their enmity and disrespect to the Church ▪ and therefore the more care ought to be taken for its preservation . Having thus , Sir , discovered the danger of the Church in general , it will be necessary , in order to find out a remedy , to discourse a little of the Strength and Interest of each Party in particular . Sir , the Papists are not the greatest number , but yet in my opinion , upon several considerations , are most to be feared , because of their desperate Principles which make them bold and indefatigable , and the assistance they may have from Rome , France and Ireland ; but above all , from the great share they have in the management of the Government , by the means of a Popish Successour , and the fear of their getting the Government into their hands hereafter , by having a Popish King. Which of it self hath been sufficient in former times to change the Religion of this Nation , and may justly be feared , may have the same effect again , unless the Protestants be well united . The Presbyterians , Independants , and all other Dissenters , may be more in number than the Papists , and may be willing enough to have the Church-Government altered , if not destroyed ; yet being they cannot have any succour from abroad , nor from the Government here at home , I cannot see any great danger of them . For it is not probable that they shall ever have a King of their opinion , nor a Parliament , by the discovery they made of their strength in the last Elections . For according to the best calculation I can make , they could not bring in above one in twenty . And therefore , because they have not such bloudy desperate Principles as the Papists , and because we agree in points of Faith , and so no such great danger from them as from the Papists , I think we have reason to conclude , that the Church is most in danger from the Papists , and that therefore we ought to take care of them in the first place ; and we cannot do that by any way more likely to prove effectual , than by some such Bill as this . Because if it should have the effect designed of bringing in many of the Dissenters into the Church , it would disappoint them of the great hopes they have grounded on our Divisions , and make the Church stronger , not only to oppose the Papists , but such Fanaticks as may not come in . And if we should be so unfortunate as that this Bill should not have this success , I do not understand it will any way weaken the Church-Government . And therefore I am for this Bill . F. Mr. Speaker , Sir , this Bill is intended for the preservation of the Church , and I am of opinion , is the only Bill that can be made in order thereto , our circumstances considered . But I know not what effect it may have , because you are to deal with a Stubborn sort of people , who in many things prefer their humour before reason or their own safety , or the publick good . But , Sir , I think this is a very good time to try whether they will be won by the Cords of Love or no , and the Bill will be very agreeable to that Christian Charity which our Church professes ; and I hope that in a time of so imminent danger as we are in , of a common Enemy , they will consider their own safety , and the safety of the Protestant Religion , and not longer keep afoot the unhappy Divisions that are amongst us , on which the Papists ground their hopes . But rather seeing the Church doth so far condescend as to dispence with the Surplice and those other things which they Scruple at , that they will submit to the rest that is enjoyned by Law , that so we may unite against the common Enemy . But if this Bill should not have this desired effect , but on the contrary , notwithstanding this condescention , they should continue their Animosities and disobedience to the Church , I think still the Church will gain very much hereby , and leave that party without excuse and be a just cause for the making of more coercive Laws . So that upon all accounts you have been well moved for the passing of this Bill . E. Mr. Speaker , Sir , I very much admire to hear it alledged , that this Bill will tend to the advantage of the Church ▪ For how can the pulling down of the Pales , and weakning the Laws against its Enemies , be a way to preserve it ? I am of another opinion , and do think this Bill may not only occasion , a great weakness , but give , I fear , a mortal Wound to the Church . Is it not much more reasonable , that the Dissenters should submit to the Church , than the Church to the Dissenters . And I am afraid , if once the Government should begin to yield to them , it will be as in 41. nothing will serve but an utter subversion , the having of one thing , will give occasion for demanding more ; and will be impossible to give them any satisfaction , without laying all open , and running into confusion . It is our misery that the Church is in so much danger of Popery , pray , Sir let us have a care how we increase her danger from Fanaticks . Instead of this Bill , I humbly conceive , that Laws to force the execution of such Laws as are in being against the Dissenters , and what more may be necessary to compel an entire obedience , ( seeing the experience we have already had of this other way hath not proved effectual ) may more contribute to the strengthening of the Church , and prevention of Popery . Mr. Speaker , Sir , as well Church-men as Dissenters , do all know we have a dangerous common . Enemy that is got within our bowels , and wants nothing but a King to their minds to have the strength of the Nation , as well Civil as Military , at their command , and so consequently a sufficient power to destroy the Protestant Religion , if not prevented by a timely Union of the Protestant Interest . The question that may properly arise at this time is , whether the putting of the Laws we have already in Execution , and making more against Dissenters , in order to bring them into the Church by force , or the making of this Law to bring them in by fair means , be the most likely way to unite us , that so we may be in a better condition to oppose the common Enemy , It is obvious to me , that the making of new Laws , or execution of the old at this time , is the ready way to ruine us ; and what the Papists do certainly desire and aim at above all things whatsoever . For if it should be put in practice , the effect would be this , It would be the occasion of throwing off the further prosecution of the Plot and Popery , and in a little time occasion , not only more heats and animosities , but such a revengeful implacable Spirit amongst us , as would prove irreconcilable , and give opportunity for the Popish Interest to joyn with either party , or at least ways to abet and assist them under hand , so as that they shall be easily provoked to destroy one the other . But if this should not happen , what real Love , Friendship , or Obedience can the Church expect from such persons , as by the execution of such Laws may be forced to come to Church ? How can they be depended on , or the Church be strengthened by them ? You may prevent their Conventicles , and force them either to come to Church or pay Fines , or be Imprisoned ; but you cannot expect that their Opinions or Affections should be altered by such proceedings , without which the Church can never be the stronger . It must be a work of time to reconcile the Divisions that are amongst us , and may be a great and necessary employment for many Parliaments hereafter , when the common Enemy doth not give such a just occasion of distraction , and for employing all your thoughts and care about him when they may have more leisure , because their dangers may not be so imminent . But to go about it at this time by any such Laws , is the ready way to weaken the Protestant Interest , and bring ruine upon us . But suppose we would follow this advise , and make new Laws , and require a severe execution of the old , how can you imagine that as long as the Popish Interest is so prevalent , the execution of such Laws shall be continued longer , than may be subservient to the Interest of that party ? Have we not had a sad experience of this ? Hath the Oxford - act , or that of the 25 of Queen Elizabeth , or any other against the Dissenters being executed in favour of the Church ? are not the Dissenters as many , if not more , now than ever ? And is not experience in all affairs the best Master ? and is there any thing more visible , than that these Laws have been made use of to serve the Popish Interest , or as Engines rather for the affairs of the State than Church : when in the year 1670. by the severe execution of these Laws all Meetings in Conventicles were prevented and many Dissenters came to Church , did not the Tolleration happen thereupon ? and was not the execution of the Laws put ●oot , as may be presumed , by that great Papist Clifford , who had then the greatest share ( under his Majesty ) in the Administration of the Government ? If the execution of the Laws against Dissenters had been for the advantage of the Church , why was there then granted a Tolleration ? and if the Tolleration had been intended for the advantage of the Protestant Religion , why were not the Churchmen , nor Dissenters of any kind , pleased with it , And if the Oxford-act , and other Laws against Dissenters , were projected in favour of the Protestant Religion , it was strange that they were so much promoted ( as many Members , now here , who did serve in those Parliaments do remember ) by Sir Tho Clifford , Sir Solomon Swale , and Sir Roger Strickland , who have since all appeared to be Papists . Sir , we have been strangely led by the Popish Interest for many years already , I pray Sir , let us not now at last do like Narcissus , to be so much in love with a Shadow , as to fall into a Gulph and drown our selves . Sir , I am afraid the Name of Church hath been strangely made use of to bring in Popery . I hope we shall endeavour to preserve , not onely the Name , but the Substance , I mean the Protestant Religion , otherwise we may come off no better than the Dog in Aesop's Fables with his shoulder of Mutton . I hope that what I have said , will not represent me as an Enemy to the Church , or Church Government ; I am sure , I am not conscious to my self , that I ever entertained a thought against the preservation of either . All what I have said , doth proceed from an apprehension that our Church-men of late have been out of the right way to preserve either our Religion or our Church ; Because the courses which they take must ( though I am far from suspecting they design it ) give a great assistance to Popery . I remember that after the Plot broke out , there was for a little while a kind of a reconciliation amongst Protestants , and an united opposition made to the common Enemy , and how then the Popish Interest gave way , we may all remember but this was too much in favour of the Protestant Religion to hold long . Within a few Moneths the fire broke out again , and the Pulpits and the Press , instead of being employed against the Common Enemy , were reduced to their old way , of carrying on the divisions amongst Protestants : And how the Popish Interest have since gone on triumphant again , all here , I suppose , may know . Sir , the Church hath two strong Enemies , the Papists and Fanaticks . We are already engaged in a sharp contest with the Papists , and find they are strong enough for us ; Why must we now also enter into a fresh engagement with the Fanaticks , especially when we may be sure thereby to strengthen our Enemies , and weaken our selves ? Such advice cannot proceed from such as are friends to the Protestant Church : If we should make new Laws against Dissenters , as hath been moved , and enforce the execution of the old ones , as long as we have a Popish successor , can any man imagine , that the execution of them will be longer kept afoot , than will consist with the Popish Interest . Sir , our Church and Religion will be lost , if Union be not improved amongst Protestants , and I think no Bill can promote it like this . And therefore I am for the passing of this Bill . Vpon these Debates it was Resolved , That the said Bill be committed upon the Debate of the House . Upon the 4th . of January 1680 / 81. His Majesty was pleased to send a most Gracious Message to the Commons in these words . CHARLES R. HIS Majesty received the Address of this House with all the disposition They could wish , to comply with Their reasonable Desires ; but upon perusing it , He is sorry to see Their Thoughts so wholly fixt upon the Bill of Exclusion , as to determine that all other Remedies for the suppressing of Popery will be ineffectual : His Majesty is confirmed in his opinion against that Bill by the Judgment of the House of Lords , who rejected it . He therefore thinks there remains nothing more for Him to say in answer to the Address of this House , but to recommend to Them , the Consideration of all other Means for the preservation of the Protestant Religion , in which They have no reason to doubt of His concurrence , whenever they shall be presented to Him in a parlimentary way ; And that They would Consider the present State of the Kingdom , as well as the Condition of Christendom , in such a manner as may enable Him to preserve Tangier , and serve His Alliances abroad , and the peace and Settlement at home . All this while here was nothing but a means debated , conformable to the incouragement which his Majesty himself had most graciously given them , which next to the Bill of Exclusion , might be most probable ( since the first was to be laid aside ) to secure his Majesties Person and his Government , and consequently the whole Kingdom , and the Protestant Religion . And thus at length an Association was thought upon and found to be one of the best Expedients for those most noble an pious ends aforesaid , as having been formerly practicable for preservation of our Prince and Country in the Raign of Queen Elizabeth . At what time to prevent the wicked designes and seditious practises of the Pope , the Spaniard and the Guises in France , and to provide for the Queens safety , upon which the welfare both of the Realm and Religion depended , as now it does on the life of our sacred Sovereign , many men of all degrees and conditions throughout England , by Leicesters means , and out of their own publick care and love , while they stood not in fear of the Queen , but were full of fear for her , bound themselves in an Association by mutual Vows , Subscriptions , and Seals , to prosecute to the death , as far as lay in their power , all those that should attempt any thing against the Queen . This Association was afterwards confirmed in Parliament in the year 1658. with the approbation and consent of all , at what time it was Enacted that twenty four or more of the Privy Council or Lords of Parliament to be de puted by the Queens Commission , should make inquisition after all such as should invade the Kingdom , raise Rebellion , or attempt to hurt or destroy the Queens person , for or by whomsoever employed that might lay claim to the Crown of England : And that he for whom , or by whom they should attempt the same should be utterly uncapable of the Crown of England , deprived wholly of all Right and Title to it , and prosecuted to death by all Faithful Subjects , if he should be judged by those 24 men to be guilty of such Invasion , Rebellion or Treasonable attempt , and by publick Proclamation so declared : The noise of such an Assotiation as this , for it cannot be imagined , that the Parliament of England ever intended any other , rang such an astonishing peal in the ears of the Kings , and Kingdoms Enemies , that to render the very name of Association odious to the world , they framed an Infamous piece of Treason , which they called the Association intended , and would needs to make the thing pass the more Current and Probable have it found in the Study of the Right Honourable Earl of Shaftsbury's ; which follows in these words , as it was Exhibited to the Grand-Jury at the Old Baily . Then this Paper was Read as followeth . WE the Knights , &c. finding to the grief of our Hearts , the Popish Priests and Jesuits , with the Papists and their Adherents and Abettors have for several years last past , persued a most pernicious and hellish Plot , to root out the True Protestant Religion as a pestilent Heresie , to take away the Life of our Gracious King , to subvert our Laws and Liberties , and to set up Arbitrary Power and Popery . And it being notorious that they have been highly encouraged by the Countenance and Protection given and procured for them by J. D. of Y. and by their Expectations of his succeeding to the Crown , and that through crafty Popish Councils his design hath so far prevailed , that he hath created many and great Dependents vpon him by his bestowing Offices and Preferments both in Church and State. It appearing also to us , That by his Influence Mercenary Forces have been levied and kept on foot for his secret designes contrary to our Laws ; the Officers thereof having been named and appointed by him , to the apparent hazard of his Majesties Person , our Religion , and Government , if the danger had not been timely foreseen by several Parliaments , and part of those Forces with great difficulty , caused by them to be disbanded at the Kingdoms great Expence : And it being evident , that notwithstanding all the continual endeavours of the Parliament to deliver his Majecty from the Councils , and out of the Power of the said D. yet His Interest in the Ministry of State and others have been so prevalent , that Parliaments have been unreasonably Prorogued and Dissolved when they have been in hot pursuit of the Popish Conspiracies , and ill Ministers of State their Assistants . And that the said D. in order to reduce all into his own power hath procured the Garrisons , the Army and Ammunition , all the power of the Seas and Soldiery , and Lands belonging to these three Kingdoms to be put into the hands of his Party and their Adherents , even in opposition to the Advice and Order of the last Parliament And as we considering with heavy Hearts how greatly the Strength , Reputation and Treasure of the Kingdom both at Sea and Land is Wasted and Consumed , and lost by the intricate expensive management of these wicked destructive Designes ; and finding the same Councils after exemplary Justice upon some of the Conspirators , to be still pursued with the utmest devilish Malice , and desire of Revenge ; whereby his Majesty is in continual hazard of being Murdered to make way for the said D.'s Advancement to the Crown , and the whole Kingdom in such case is destitute of all Security of their Religion , Laws , Estates , and Liberty , ( ad experience in the Case , Queen Mary having proved the wisest Laws to be of little force to keep out Popery and Tyranny under a Popish Prince . We have therefore endeavoured in a Parliamentary way by a Bill for the purpose to Bar and Exclude the said Duke from the Succession to the Crown , and to Banish him for ever out of these Kingdoms of England and Ireland . But the first means of the King and Kingdoms Safety being utterly rejected , and we left almost in Despair of obtaining any real and effectual security , and knowing our selves to be intrusted to Advise an Act for the preservation of His Majesty and the Kingdom , and being perswaded in our Consciences that the dangers aforesaid are so eminent and pressing , that there ought to be no delay of the best means that are in power to secure the Kingdom against them . We have thought fit to propose to all true Protestants an Vnion amongst themselves by solemn and sacred promise of mutual Defence and Assistance in the preservation of the true protestant Religion , His Majesties Person and Royal State and our Lawes , Liberties and Properties , and we hold it our bounden Duty to joyn our selves for the same intent in a Declaration of our Vnited Affections and Resolutions in the Form insuing . I A. B. Do in the presence of God solemnly Promise , Vow , and Protest to maintain and defend to the utmost of my Power , with my Person and Estate , the true Protestant Religion , again Popery and all Popish Superstition , Idolatry , or Innovation , and all those who do or shall endeavour to spread or advance it within this Kingdom . I will also , as far as in me lies , Maintain and defend his Majesties Royal Person and Estate ; as also the Power and Priviledg of Parliaments , the lawful Rights and Liberties of the Subject against all incroachments and Vsurpation of Arbitrary power whatsoever , and endeavour entirely to Disband all such Mercenary Forces as we have reason to believe were Raised to Advance it , and are still kept up in and about the City of London , to the great Amazement and Terror of all the good People of the Land. Moreover J. D of Y. Having publickly professed and owned the Popish Religion , and notoriously given Life and Birth to the Damnable and Hellish Plots of the Papists against his Majesties Person , the Protestant Religion , and the Government of this Kingdom ; I will never consent that the said J. D. of Y. or any other , who is or hath been a Papist , or any ways adher'd to the Papists in their wicked Designs , be admitted to the Succession of the Crown of England , But by all lawful means and by force of Arms , if need so require , according to my Abilities , oppose him , and endeavour to subdue , Expel and Destroy him , if he come into England , or the Dominions thereof , and seek by force to set up his pretended Title , and all such as shall Adhere unto him , or raise any war , Tinnult , or Sedition for him , or by his Command , as publick Enemies of our Laws , Religion and Country . To this end we and every one of us whose hands are here under written , do most willingly bind our selves and every one of us unto the other , joyntly and severally , in the bond of one firm and Loyal Society or Association , and do promise and vow before God , That with our joynt and particular Forces , we will oppose and pursue unto Destruction all such as upon any Title whatsoever shall oppose the Just and Righteous Ends of this Association , and Maintain , Protect and Defend all such as shall enter into it in the just performance of the true intent and meaning of it , And lest this Just and Pious work should be any ways obstructed or hindred for want of Discipline and Conduct , or any evil minded persons under pretence of raising Forces for the service of this Association , should attempt or commit Disorders ; we will follow such Orders as we shall from time to time receive from this present Parliament , whilst it shall be sitting , or the Major part of the Members of both Houses subscribing this Association , when it shall be Prorogued or Dissolved : And obey such Officers as shall by them be set over us in the several Countries Cities , and Burroughs , until the next meeting of this or another Parliament ; and will then shew the same Obedience and Submission unto it , and those who shall be of it . Neither will we for any respect of Persons or Causes , or for Fear , or Reward separate our selves from this Association , or fail in the Prosecution thereof during our Lives , upon pain of being by the rest of us prosecuted . and suppressed as Perjured Persons , and Publick Enemies to God , the King , and our Native Country . To which Pains and Punishment we do voluntarily submit our selves , and every one of us without benefit of any Colour or Pretence to excuse us . In Witness of all which Premises to be inviolably kept , we do this present Writing put our Hands and Seals , and shall be most ready to accept and admit any others hereafter into this Society and Association . This contrived peice of scandalous Treason , is that which was said , or rather sworn to have been found in the Earl of Shaftsbury's Study . Now , whether the Paper were really in the Hair Trunk , or put into the Velvet Bagg among other loose Papers , is a dispute of another Nature . However the Paper being found , or pretendedly found in the Earls Study , the business was prosecuted by the Attorny General , before special Commissioners of Oyer and Terminer , the 24th . of November 1681 , upon a Bill of Endictment for High Treason , against Anthony Earl of Shaftsbury . His Grand-Jury were . The GRAND-JURY . Sir Samuel Barnardiston . John Morden . Thomas Papillon . John Dubois . Charles Hearle . Edward Rudge . Humphrey Edwin . John Morrice . Edmund Harrison . Joseph Wright . John Cox. Thomas Parker . Leonard Robinson . Thomas Shepherd . John Flavell . Michael Godfrey . Joseph Richardson . William Empson . Andrew Kendrick . John Lane. John Hall. Who having altogether heard and examined the Evidence that was brought against him , of which the chiefest were a band of Irish Rakeshames , after a short , though serious debate among themselves they returned the Bill IGNORAMUS . The Kings and the Kingdoms Enemies being thus defeated in their Design , set their Mercenary Pens at work to Prosecute the very ASSOCIATION which they had themselves contrived with all the fury imaginable , and to that purpose it was teized and clawed off and Parrallel'd with the Covenant , and laden with all that IGNOMINY which it well deserved . Though all this while their Indignation was not so much against this Form of ASSOCIATION of their own contriving , but as it were through the sides of that , to wound all manner of Legal and Loyal ASSOCIATIONS ; more especially that which the PARLIAMENT were about to have devised in a Legal and Parliamentary way , and in pursuance of his Majesties most Gracious promises . Thereupon after they thought they had rendered the Issue of their own brains sufficiently deformed , as indeed it could appear no otherwise in the eyes of all true Protestant English-men ▪ then they began to set up Abhorrencies of all manner of ASSOCIATIONS , and having drawn in the Credulous , Ignorant , and Unwary to sign their plausible Addresses , threw them at the feet of Majesty , as the choicest Jewels of the Kingdoms Loyalty , whereas indeed the Grand Arcanum of these Abhorrences was to provoke and incence the People against all manner of ASSOCIATIONS , how necessary and expedient for the safety of the King and Kingdom , or how Legal soever , and thereby to put them out of Love with the most probable means for the safety of their Prince and themselves , and madly to abhor their own Preservation . If self preservation be a thing to be allowed to all men , even every individual Person by the Law of Nature , certainly the Preservation of the great Monarch , and three Kingdoms is much more congruous even to the Laws of God. So that indeed it is a shame that these late ABHORRERS should under the pretence of Loyalty shew themselves so Disloyal , and void of Future Prospect , as to be gull'd with the sh●ddow of a forged contrivance into a Dislike and Abhorrency of Legal and Parliamentary Proceedings . We find in the Learned Camden ▪ that the Earl of Leicester , zealous for the good of the Queen and Kingdom , and seeing the imminent dangers , wherein both were involv'd , procured an ASSOCIAATION with Seals and Subscriptions to it ▪ without her knowledg ( and yet she was Princess , that used to be very smart upon those that attempted any thing without it . ) Nevertheless she was so far from thinking it a Crime , or blaming her Great Minister , that she not only gave her Parliament Liberty to confirm it , but gave them her thanks in these words . The Association you entred into for my safety , I have not forgotten , a thing I never so much as thought of till a great number of hands and Seales to it were shewed me . This has laid a perpetual Tye and Obligation upon me , to bear you a Singular good will and Love who have no greater Comfort then in Yours , and the Common-Wealth's Respect and Affection toward me . Cambdens Eliz. l. 3. p. 365. From whence it may seem probable that the world would have had no reason to think ill of any of those who had it in their power , seeing the Parliament fail'd , had they imitated the Earl of Leicester , and procured an Association of the same nature of all his Majesties Loyal Subjects , rather than to promote and connive at Abhorrences of the only way which the PARLIAMENT could think of for his preservation : there is no question to be made but his Majesty who is all goodness and clemency might have prov'd as thankful as Queen Elizabeth . Sir Francis Whithins after the Deservedly Exploded Paper was read at the Old-Baily , confessed , That it was plausibly penn'd at the beginning , and went on a great way so , till the last clause but one ; then which there is nothing that makes it more probable , that this same Traiterous Association was written and fram'd by some Jesuite , and that for mischiefs sake ▪ for if ever they do any good , 't is always that will any may be at the end of 〈…〉 his Religious long Cloak sweep the ground as well before as behind , his cloven feet will appear one way or other . And this you see the holy Roman-Catholick league , conorived by the Jesuites against Henry the third of France , contained many Heavenly and Pious pretences , but aim'd at the Destruction of the lawful Monarch of France , and obliged his subjects to it : whereas the Counter-Association of the French Protestants was made to better purposes , the preservation of their Prince and the defence of themselves against the Pope and the Guises their mortal Enemies , and then Rebells to their prince , of which the King himself was not a little sensible , and indulged them several favours in reference to the exercise of their Religion . To Associate is no more then devovere se pro Regis & Patriae salute , to devote himself for the safety of his King and Country . Now for men to be so scandalously led away by their own imprudence , and the subtlety of others , as to abhor the Defence of their King and Country , is an apparent sign , that few of the Addressors ever considered what they writ or what they read . The Consul or Preter among the Romans , had power to devote any Citizen of Rome , in time of iminent danger , as a Piaculum to all one by his death the anger of the Gods , and they who were thus devoted never disobeyed , but threw themselves headlong into certain ruin , to preserve their own Country . By this means Curtius and Decius saved the Romans in ancient time . Thus Leonides with his three hundred Spartans Associated in an indispensible resolution to live and dye for their Country saved Greece from that seemingly invincible power of Xerxes ; and after the destructive Battle of Cannae , Rome had been utterly lost , had not Scipio Affricanus compelled them that were left behind and spared from the Carthaginiam slaughter , to swear that they would never forsake their Country ▪ Of later times , the Prince of Orange was the person that caused several Cities of the Low-Country's to enter into an Association , which was called the Holy Union , and Peace of Religion . From these or some such President the Earl of Leicester doubtless drew the Plot from off that Association , which was afterwards confirmed in Parliament , and was so graciously accepted of the Queen , so that it was no wonder that the Parliament proposed among themselves the same Expedient which their Predecessors had made use of upon the same Importunities of danger to his Present Majesty and his Kingdom . For which their Debates most certainly merited a more kind reward and a higher Gratitude then hot brained Abhorrences of a their Loyalty to their Prince ▪ and Country , and the Reproach of a Fobb'd Association , which 〈◊〉 good man will ever believe to have come within the Verge of their thoughts . POST SCRIPT UPon these Grounds , and upon these Reasons , I am apt to think the Author of the Parallel was more Zealous , then Wise , or else he had little to do , to sweat and turmoil himself in Satyrising against a thing that was never justified by any person living , so that it was but a hard shift to beg a Question , that he might shew the world how well he could behave himself upon a better occasion : Truly the Gentleman is very sharp , and his sharp●ess had been commendable , had any been found Guilty , either of Framing or Abetting the Paper . But now we may as well believe that he was the Author of it himself , and that he slid it into the world , that he might have a Subject to excercise the cutting lashes of rapsodies ; 't is such a pretty odd kind of way of writing , and indeed such a one as hardly has any Parallel , for a man to rave and tear and fret himself for so many Paragraphs together , that you would fear the melting of his grease ; and yet that his Reader must be forced at every stop , to ask the Gentleman what he meanes ? Who is 't he storms against ? If it be the Old Baily Association he fumes at , as to the peccant part of it , there is no body but had as much to say , and would have said as much against it , and perhaps more then he has done , had there been occasion . But for people that never saw the thing , and perhaps never heard of it till it was Printed by two Loyal Stationers for them , to be brought under Suspitions of Treason and Rebellion , and rendred odious to the world , seems rather a Plot upon the Innocent , then a Reproof or Rebuke of the Guilty , so that what ever the Gentleman has said against the Association it self , shall be freely granted him , he shall have the Bays and the Victory : But let him not however be proud of it , because he has not abtained it over foes but friends , besides I find the Gentleman is not an Enemy to all Associations neither , but only Factious Associations , in which point we most harmoniously agree with him . But why he should be so furious upon the late Juries as to tax them for a band of Covenanting Associators such as would have acquitted the factious Inditor of this Association , had they found him musing upon it at his Desk ; such as would have cleared a Protestant Joyner , had they seix'd him with his hand on his Majesty , &c. I say why the Gentle should lay such dismal aspersions , and hyperbolize in such a hot-headed and malicious Stile upon the fame , the reputation , nay the very thoughts of men , which it may be justly presumed were altogether unknown to him , there is no true reason to be given , unless it were some young Crape Gown Levite that had a mind to be dabling in Gall and Ink ; and then there are two . For among that sort of People there are many , for want of Education , very Malapar tothers for want of that which in them should be most conspicuous good Example , and out of a Cruel and Bonner-like Disposition , most remarkable uncharitable : Otherwise the very names of most of the Gentlemen that were upon those late Juries , had been a charm against those bloudy reflections and virulent repoaches , which the Paralleller , like a little God a Mighty , or searcher of hearts has cast upon them . Let him be who he will , the rashness of his Hyperboles plainly shew's , that his Pen run before his Wit , and his Inconderate Inveteracy before his Religion : As for his thoughts of the Presbyterian Plot , they are not worth taking notice of , only it may not be a miss to give you a short account of his Arguments by which he proves the late Association to be a member of it . Imprimis , Every Tyler , or Jack straw . Item , Conscience applyed to the Capriciousness of fancy . Item , Every froward Fool. Item , Each Dissenting Ass . Item , Every prejudiced Noddle . Item , The Silly Rout. I only cite the Stress , Marrow , Pith or Quinticense of the Gentlemans Arguments ; the rest would be too redious . Now is not this enough to convince any man of Reason of the truth of the Presbiterian Plot , and that the Sham Association was of their fraiming in imitation of the Covenant ? Nay Gentlemen , if age will not believe Pulpit Rhetorick , and Crape Gown Extasie — Y' are all men of lost Consciences , Heaven have mercy on you defrauded judgments . But these Declaimers doe not consider the Fable of Esop , that man is born with two pouches , one hanging before , wherein are the failings of other men ready at hand ? that behind contains their own miscarriages , which they want the help of the brass screws , to turn their heads to look into . Only by this we find the difference between a Popish and a Presbiterian Plot , that the first is a Plot upon full Proof and Evidence , the other a Plot by Conjecture . As for his large Comment upon the Association it self , let them give an answer to it whom it concerns . Only I am apt to believe that had not those Loyal Gentlemen that exposed it first to publick view found out a way to print it for the sake of a little gain , jig by joul with the Covenant , it had died upon the Earles Acquittal , without ever been taken notice of , as being a thing little known , and less regarded by all wise men who were not only sensible of the Illegality of it , but well knew how unlikely , if not impossible it was to be put in practice : So that the publishing of it was a thing done rather out of the spite and malice of those Loyal Gentleman , or rather Factious Associators , according to the Gentleman 's own distinction between a True Patriot and a Factious Associator , to inflame the Nation , & cast an Odium upon the peaceable people of the Kingdom rather then to do their Prince any real service . And perhaps it would have become the Parallell or himself , since he would needs play the Gladiator , and exercise his pen against an Image of those Gentlemens erecting , to have better informed us who those persons against whom he so bitterly declaimes , then to lay such opprobious Scandals upon Thousands ; for the Miscarriages of some few ; and those few for ought I find as little known to him , as the vast numbers of the Innocent . FINIS