Some observations upon the tickling querie (viz.) whether the admitting of a popish successor be the best way to preserve the Protestant religion, with other passages touching the history of the succession and other pamphlets / by a gentleman in the countrey to his friend in London. Gentleman in the countrey. 1681 Approx. 28 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. Text Creation Partnership, Ann Arbor, MI ; Oxford (UK) : 2008-09 (EEBO-TCP Phase 1). A60816 Wing S4542 ESTC R17822 11936250 ocm 11936250 51184 This keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the Early English Books Online Text Creation Partnership. This Phase I text is available for reuse, according to the terms of Creative Commons 0 1.0 Universal . The text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A60816) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 51184) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 513:42) Some observations upon the tickling querie (viz.) whether the admitting of a popish successor be the best way to preserve the Protestant religion, with other passages touching the history of the succession and other pamphlets / by a gentleman in the countrey to his friend in London. Gentleman in the countrey. [2], 7 p. Printed for Joanna Brome ..., London : 1681. Reproduction of original in University of Pennsylvania Library. Created by converting TCP files to TEI P5 using tcp2tei.xsl, TEI @ Oxford. Re-processed by University of Nebraska-Lincoln and Northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. Gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. 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In illa tempora perventum est quibus nec vitia nec remedia pati possumus . Liv. LONDON : Printed for Joanna Brome , at the Gun at the West-End of St. Pauls , MDCLXXXI . Some Observations , &c. SIR , VVE Return you our humble thanks for your constant communicating to us your City-Pamphlets , for though generally there is neither much wit nor truth in most of them , yet they give us some divertisement to observe how industrious they are to sow the Tares of Disloyalty and Sedition in the heads and hearts of the People : But , God be thanked , we do not find that it takes much effect , at least , about us , for we knowing their Design , and having , many of us , seen the Cheat acted once before , are not so easily prevail'd upon to renounce our Loyalty to the best of Kings , and our veneration and obedience to the best Religion in the World , only to rescue a company of furious Zealots from those punishments they know their ill actions have deserved , and which they think cannot be safe but by attempting greater . As for your Intelligences and Mercuries , that call themselves Protestant , certainly they are the last Effort of the Pope and the Devil to make the Word odious in the World , and certainly are as great a Scandal to the true intention of the Word Protestant , as Popery is to Christianity . And though the Word it self doth not signifie Religion ( no more than the late Protestation of the Lords at Oxford made them one jot the more Religious . ) For the true and proper distinction between us and the Papists is the Reformation , and at this day those whom we call Protestants of France , stile themselves Ceux de la Religion reformée , and their Church , l'Eglise reformée . However time and use those great Arbitrators of Words , have made the Word Protestant , familiar and significative amongst us , and is not so large as , No Papist , ( as some would have it ) so as to include Turks and Jews and what not : but hath its sober signification , and with us signifies , Those in the Communion of the Church of England Established by Law at the times of the Reformation in the Days of King Edward the Sixth , and Queen Elizabeth , and so continued down to this Day . But as for those Sham-Protestants , those Scribling-Bermicham , and as they call themselves Dissenting-Protestants , are no more Protestants in the true Notion of the Word , than one that denies a thing can be said to affirm it , or one that dissents can be said to assent . And as the Word took its Origin from those gallant Protesting Princes of Germany against the Edict of Spire : so it were not much matter if it were laid aside , when it is usurped by such Seditious and Scandalous Persons , who shame the Word . Your other Books of The History of the Succession , Character of a Popish Successor , and such like , What do they but Rake in the Kennels of History , and pick up all the black and unjustifiable Actions of several Ages to make good their own Seditious Principles , and think themselves good men , if they can find any upon Record as bad as themselves : It being as illogical from those many Rapes that have been made upon the Legitimate Succession of the Crown , by those several Bold Usurpers and Ambitious Pretenders to Royalty through the Assistance of discontented Grandees and Clergy-Men , to prove this an Elective Monarchy , as to prove the Lawfulness of Robbing upon Shooters or Gads-Hill , because de Facto it hath often there been put in Execution . But it is an easie thing to persuade men that are resolved upon the Point ; and though we know they would stick at no villany to compass their Ends were it once in their power , yet they please themselves to see how many Gudgeons they catch , with these specious Baits of Precedents and History , which neither they themselves believe , nor hope they will prevail upon any thinking men , yet knowing how willingly the Zealous Party are led by the Nose , they venture to print any thing , rather than seem to starve their Cause , or let their Mad Admirers cool into Soberness and Loyalty . How much more ingenuous aud beneficial to Mankind were it for these Men to have observ'd to the World how Funest and Tragical both to Prince and People , most of those Usurpations have been , though otherwise confirmed , as they call it , by Parliaments ; What Seas of Blood have been let out of the Veins of Noble and Simple , what Ruins and Desolations have attended the Defence of their ill-obtained Regalities , where as 't is said in ill-gotten Goods , vix gaudet tertius haeres : so in these Parliamentary Titles they never were of long continuance ; but the Restless Nation through an innate Loyalty and Secret Love and Acknowledgment of the Sacred Right of Succession , was alwaies rowling and never quiet , till the Crown was Fixed upon the True and Legitimate Heir . And how little Knowledge in Judicial Astrology would serve the turn to predict the same Effects from the same Causes ? And how easie to imagine that they may at last be Cudgell'd into that Loyalty and Obedience , which now they willingly Forfeit , and after a vast Expence of Blood and Treasure be glad to return to that blessed Peace and Protection we now enjoy , but do not value . Ay , But the Protestant Religion will be destroyed under a Popish Successor ? And we are under more strong Obligations of Conscience to defend our Religion , than we are to defend the Title of any Prince whatsoever : And it is a greater Offence to God Almighty to introduce Idolatry than to destroy Monarchy : And several other pretty Arguments to prepare the People to Rebel for Conscience sake . To these and a great many more I shall not trouble my self nor you to make any Remarks upon , as arising rather from mistaken Zeal , than from Solid Reasoning : But I shall only touch upon their beloved , darling Querie , over which they hug and tickle themselves , and make such an Oration , as if they had gotten some signal Victory ; Viz. Whether the admitting of a Popish Successor , be the best way of preserving the Protestant Religion ? Now if there can be any Rational Account given of this Paradox , or that any one can make the Question it self consistent with Religion or Policy , erit mihi magnus Apollo . But though I shall not undertake so seemingly difficult a Province , as to Answer the Querie , as they term it , Categorically , yet you will pardon me if I give you my slight thoughts of it . And First I must dissect it into parts , As whether the Admission of a Popish Successor be in our Choice or no ? Or , Whether God Almighty hath left it to the Liberty of every People to Chuse their Prince ? And if so , Which of the People is to do it ? And if Religion hath any influence upon his being admitted , Then another Querie may be , Whether the admitting a Presbyterian Successor be the best way of preserving the Protestant Religion ? And so an Independent , Anabaptist , or Quaking Successor . Then I am to Ask , What you mean by Protestant Religion , whether that Established by Law , or some other , or all other but that ? For if we may judge by the Querents , we know there is nothing less in their thoughts than being over solicitous to preserve that Religion , which they brand with these ridiculous Terms of Torism , Tantivism , Masqueradism , and such like ingenious Titles : For which Reasons the Querie might be , Whether Popery or Presbytery is the readier way to destroy the Protestant Religion ? And indeed this is a Querie too hard for me to determine , I know the Papists have Will enough , but the Presbyter hath constantly had the better of them , as having better advantage , being a seeming Friend and so less suspected ; And indeed the Papists despair of doing any great mischief but through their sides , and by their assistance . And I do extremely wonder , that Men of Parts , as some of the Faction certainly are , should be so gull'd with malicious Zeal against the Religion Established by Law , that they are content once more to be the Papists Journey-Men and Tools , as they in their Prints confess they were , when they would Divert the Odium of the Late Rebellion , and Murdering the Late King , of Ever-blessed Memory , from themselves upon the Papists , who they acknowledge insinuated themselves into their Councils , to their Armies , their Pulpits , and what not , ( I was going to say their very Beds . ) So that whilst the innocent Presbyter had no other Ends but advancing the Kingdom of Jesus Christ , and making the King a Glorious King , according to the Covenant , The Jesuitical Independents snatched the King out of their hands ( who was their King , by one Title more than any other Party could pretend , as having bought him of the Scots , and that at a great Rate , and some of them knew for what End too ) and , God knows much against their will , Cut off his Head ; while on the other side , the more ingenious Villains of the two , the Independents , own the Fact , but tell them they could never have done it , had not they held him by the Hair. Thus the King was once Murdered , and the Religion Destroy'd by the Zeal of the Presbyter , under the Conduct of the subtle Jesuit . And now we see , Since the great Plot against the King and the Church of England hath failed , having been so happily and fully Discovered , by that never-to-be-forgotten Doctor Oats , and the rest of the concurring Evidence , the sly Jesuit hath betaken himself to his old slights of Plowing with the zealous Dissenters , as the said Doctor Oats so Prophetically Swore and Foretold in his first Discovery , assigning the very places and stages on which they were to Act , as he said such and such going for Scotland , and mingling themselves with the discontented party there , who no doubt play'd their parts so well , as to stir up some Zealots to Murther the Late Bishop of St. Andrews ; others to the Late Rebellion there , which was so happily Suppressed by the Courage and Conduct of his Grace the Duke of Monmouth . But that which is most strange is , that it seems that the very Blood which was there drawn from the Rebels , hath by some energetick influence infected some of those that drew it ; who have ever since been suspected , at least , very much to favour the Party and abett the Principles of those they chastised . Mysterious Victory ! where on one side their Bodies , on the other their Minds were interchangeably led Captive . Nay more , That Victory of the Dukes was so ill resented by that Party here that have a secret compassion for all insuccessful Rebels , ( and probably the Jesuits the Doctor mentioned and these were all of a complexion ) that some had like to have lost their Interest , for pushing that Service farther than was intended they should have done , and destroying so many of those daring and precious Souls they might hereafter have occasion to make use of . But to return to our Tickling Querie , and the little ones in the belly of it ; though indeed it is the most disingenuous thing in the World to make Queries and lay some stress upon them , which they themselves know have no foundation in reason or practice . For if it be as clear as the Sun that in such a Kingdom as we are in , viz. an Hereditary Kingdom , where the Succession hath been continued down for so many Ages ( saving some interruptions by Usurpers , which never lasted long , and cost the Nation so dear as was before hinted ) we are no more concerned in the Qualifications of a Legitimate Successor , than we are in the Frosty weather in May , or the no Rain in April : But if God in his Wisdom shall think fit by sending us a Popish Successor ( as they call him ) for to revenge and punish a sinful and peevish Nation , or for the Tryal of the Faith and Courage of those that call themselves Protestants , what have we to do but receive him , as we should do all other Chastisements , with all Veneration and Submission , and beg of him to give us Grace to make the right use of those Afflictions , that is to amend our Lives , and be so much the better , by how much the Times are the worse . As for the Writer of the Character he hath taken indeed a great deal of pains to represent his Popish Successor in all the dismal and frightful appearances that wit or malice could handsomely invent , on purpose to scare unwary people out of their wits first , and then out of their Loyalty and Allegiance as well towards the Possessor as the Successor ; for to speak the plain Truth , the Arguments as well as the Design is clearly against both , at least they know there is no plausible way to prevent the Successor , but by using the Possessor so ill , that he may be forc'd at last to yield to their importunities , and pass such Laws as may either totally Exclude , or so modifie and shackle the Successor , that it shall not be in his power to do half the harm the Character threatens us with . And here naturally falls in a Question , Whether a King in possession with the Advice and Consent of his three Estates Assembled in Parliament ( the Mint and Fountain of all our Laws ) can Legally do the one or the other , that is , either Exclude or Modifie ? And though it be a dangerous thing to question what a King so fortified may or may not do , yet we see every day , several undertaking and determining the Question on either side , and that positively ; So that we are left , in aequilibrio , which side to take , as our Affections and Interest most incline us . And though I will not be positive on either side , I shall only put this Querie : Whether if it were clear , or granted , That they could not Exclude , whether then they could not Modifie ? I know that the Current of Opinions is , That all Modifications are ineffectual and delusory , nothing but a total Exclusion will serve the Turn . Now if they would be ingenuous and would Confess that they are of Opinion , That nothing but an Exclusion will serve their Turns , I should be a little of their minds , for being conscious to themselves how far they have provok'd him , they judging by their own Charity , conclude themselves unpardonable , and therefore for their own Security must endeavour to wheedle the whole Nation into the same degree of Guilt to save them harmless . But we hope the Nation is not so mad yet , to involve themselves in so great Sin and Danger only to gratifie or secure a few discontented Republican Desperado's . Therefore to leave that Question to them of those Principles , give me leave to put you a Case that on this subject was urged by one of our Company ( and he a very honest man too , as we take him at least . ) I would willingly be satisfied , saith he , why the King in Possession with the Advice and Consent aforesaid , foreseeing that by a Popish Successor at any time , it is more than probable , not only the Religion Established , but the very Laws and Government will be in danger of suffering such convulsions as may hazard the Ruin and Downfall of Monarchy and Religion both , whether ( saith he ) they may not make such Laws and Provisions , as may in humane probability prevent or alleviate such dismal consequences . As for instance , without reflecting upon the D. Y. whether he be a Papist or not , nor if he were so , whether he be the worse ( as the Character asserts ) for being one of the most Accomplished Persons in Europe : We are only to enquire , says he , whether if the Religion Established by Law in England , be a Religion worth our care , and that certainly by all lawful means we may endeavour its Preservation and continuance among us , and its consignation to our Costerity ; And that the Religion in England is so implicated and involved with the Laws and Government , that one cannot be invaded but the other must be in danger , and if it be necessary to preserve either or both , and that it is not consistent with Reason to expect this from a Popish Successor at any time ; Then whether it be not in the Lawful Power ( I will not add , saith he , the Duty and Obligation ) of the King in Possession with the Advice and Consent aforesaid , to make and pass a General Law by Act of Parliament , That no Papist whatsoever shall at any time hereafter be capable of Inheriting the Crown , with such other circumstances as shall be thought necessary for such an Act. And first , saith he , here is no wrong done to any man ( for the D. Y. is not yet convict of being so ) for if the Modes and Qualifications be lawfully laid , then 't is not the Law but you that exclude your self , and the Subjects are excused by a Law ( as great as that which requires them to take the Oath of Allegiance ) from submitting to such an unqualified Person . Now though it is urged by some ( continues he ) That in Hereditary Successions , no Limitations can be laid by any Power upon Earth to bar the Inheritance , being founded by a Law paramount to all humane and positive Laws , viz. The Law of God and Nature : Yet give me leave , says he , to ask these Gentlemen , whether the Laws of God and Nature have more force here in England , than in any other part of the World ? We know very well that by the Laws they speak of , Proximity of Blood is only to be regarded , without any other consideration , either of Religion , Manners , Sex or Age , even to Ideots and Madmen . How then comes it to pass , that in France an Hereditary Monarchy of the first Magnitude , the Crown is Limited to the Heirs Males , for whether the Salique Law be as old as Pharamond , as they pretend it is , or whether it were only made to serve a Turn to exclude our Edward from his Natural Right to that Crown , in Right of his Mother , it will not be worth the while to enquire at this time a-day , de Facto , it is so , and hath been , to the Exclusion of all Females and their Issue to this very time . And though some would seem to justifie the practice with a Dispensation from Heaven , because there is such a passage in the Scripture , Lilia nec nent nec laborant , yet that will scarce pass with any but such as interpret Scripture A la mode de France . So in Portugal , where they admit of Females to Inherit the Crown , yet they are Limited to such as Marry within that Kingdom , and this upon pretence of the Law of Lamego ; a fresh instance of which is now upon the Stage in the Infanta of Portugal , who being to Marry with the Duke of Savoy , in order to make their Issue capable of Inheriting the Crown of Portugal , The States of the Nation were Convened , and their Consent required , for dispensing with that Law for this time , and in that Case . And by vertue of that Law the late Duke of Braganza ( Father to the present King and Prince Regent of Portugal ) was declared King , having Marryed Catherine , a younger Daughter , yet Marryed within the Kingdom ; whilst the Issue of Mary though elder Daughter Marryed to the Duke of Parma , were Excluded , according to that Law of Lamego . In Poland ( though it be yet an Elective Kingdom ) yet their very Elections are Confin'd and Limited to one that is a Roman Catholick . And so in several Parts of Germany their Chief Magistrate must be alternatively a Romanist and a Lutheran . Now if all this be well done in these Countries notwithstanding the Divine , Natural Right of Succession by proximity of Blood ; And if every Nation is bound by the highest Law to take care , Ne quid detrimenti Respublica capiat ; And we see other Countries do and have made Laws which they judge most convenient for the good of those respective Countries even to the Limiting the Succession ; How comes it to pass that we in England are deprived of this Liberty that other Countries take in preserving themselves and their Government entire and unshaken . Another Question of this nature and probably as important as the former was urg'd by another Friend , viz. In Case the Wisdom of a King in Possession by the Advice and Consent aforesaid : should make such a Law to Deprive all Papists from Inheriting the Crown , and should Declare , That such and such Overt Acts should be a sufficient conviction in Law to affect such Persons of being so , and then Entayling the Crown upon the next Protestant Heir in Succession : How then should good Subjects behave themselves in such a juncture ? And several other Queries incident hereunto we had , which I shall not trouble you with at this time , but intreat you to give us your thoughts of these I have mentioned , as freely as we have imparted ours . And though these sort of Questions seem a little to confirm or favour the Tickling Querie I mentioned at first ; give me leave to say thus much to this and all other Queries of this nature ? First , That the Protestant Religion of the Church of England , Teaches us no other Doctrine than what was Taught by the Apostles themselves , that is , Obedience and Submission to Kings and Governours : and that not because they are of this or that Religion or Persuasion ( as they now term it ) but purely and abstractedly for Conscience Sake , It is the Ordinance of God , and he that resisteth shall receive to himself Damnation . Next , That we ought continually to bless God for , and earnestly pray for the long Life of our most Gracious Sovereign ( never one more truly termed the Light of our Eyes and the Breath of our Nostrils ) and then these captious Queries are needless of themselves . But if it should please God to change the Scene , and send us a King of another Temper , I am sure that then the best way to preserve the Protestant Religion is , to be of the same mind still , that is to Fear God and Honour the King , and we need not fear but that the God whom we serve , who hath the hearts of Kings in his hands , will so order things , that by our peaceable Conversation in such a juncture , most of those dismal apprehensions we are terrified with , will blow over , or if it should prove a storm , it will be either not violent or not long . And this is so peculiarly the Doctrine of the Church of England , that I think I may Challenge all the Churches of the several persuasions in the World , to say and prove they hold this Doctrine ; for certainly if it were so , Those desperate Tenents of Murdering of Princes , &c. would never have been heard of in the World ; And whether the Jesuit or the Presbyter be most guilty in that particular , both in Doctrine and Practice , would be a subject too long and too odious for to be comprehended within the compass of a Letter . To conclude then this great Case and answer this curious Querie as positively as I can , I shall be bold to affirm , That if Almighty God in his Providence should please to send us a Popish Prince , The best way to preserve the Protestant Religion in the Purity of her Doctrine , is not only to admit him , but submit to his just Authority in all his Lawful Commands . We know no Arms but those of the old Christian Martyrs , Prayers and Tears : We are alwaies ready to Fight for , never against our Prince . We fear Hell more than Smithfield ; And assuredly if the Princes of the World would impartially weigh the Purity and Simplicity of the Doctrines of the Church of England , the Innocency and Decency of her Ceremonies , the Regularity and Decorum in her Offices and Administrations , the Integrity and Candour of her Principles and Manners , they would not only conclude her to be the best Transcript of the Original Copy of Primitive Christianity that is left in the World , but the best security to Establish the Thrones of Kings , and the best Rule for Subjects to learn and practise that due Obedience they owe to Governours . Oh! that I could add , That the Lives of her Professors were answerable to the Doctrines and Principles of their Profession . For 't is such a Paradox , as well as Burthen of Spirit to all True , Sober Protestants , to observe that generally those that walk most strictly in their Lives , and pretend to have a degree of Sanctity and Holiness above other Men , they have no proportion of Submission and Deference to their Lawful Superiors both in Church and State , with other Men of less Sanctity or Parts . Whilst on the other side those that pretend to have the greatest Loyalty for their Prince , and Obedience to all in Authority under him , do commonly give themselves too great a Liberty in their outward Conversation , and Indulge themselves too much in their sensual enjoyments , to the reciprocal scandal one of another ; for whilst one side takes advantage and says , Look what Lives these Loyalists lead : the other returns , Observe what Principles these Zealots hold , thereby encouraging and hardning each other in their half-Christianity . And without peradventure it will never be well , till one side adorns his Loyalty with a Holy-Life , and the other crowns his Zeal with Loyalty and Obedience . Then should we be the happiest People alive , under whatever Dispensations of Providence we may possibly fall . Thus begging your pardon for troubling you with our Country Conceptions , We kiss your hands and remain , Your Faithful Servants , &c. THE END .